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[unsettling music playing]
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[man] I should've been dead
a long time ago.
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Everybody in my family's dead,
except for me.
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I've always wondered why.
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Why am I still alive?
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I'm the black sheep of the family.
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I'm the only one that caused trouble.
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[man] I actually think
there's someone else besides me
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playing tricks with my mind, or whatever.
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But… I can clearly say
that things I've done…
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A lot of things I don't remember,
I don't remember how I got there.
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It's like I can hear another voice saying,
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"Yeah, you did this."
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You know.
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I'm like, "No, I didn't do this."
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And it's like
me playing a game with myself.
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[man] Yeah.
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Yes.
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Sure.
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That's fine, yes.
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My name is Deryl Wayne Madison.
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Born August 29th, 1958
in Monroe, Louisiana.
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I've been incarcerated
for the last 33 years
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for a crime that I committed
in my neighborhood
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in the year of 1988.
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Well, I grew up in Texas.
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My mother was…
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a registered nurse.
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She was a hard-working woman,
Christian woman.
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I got along with my mother
better than I did with my father.
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Me and my dad butted heads
from the time I was five years old,
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and I never got along with him.
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I caught a lot of whippings from my dad.
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A lot, 'cause, uh…
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Extension cords and boards, mostly.
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A lot of times I took off
and I wouldn't come back.
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You know…
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And it just got…
It just got worse and worse.
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The first time I set a fire,
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I set a calendar on fire,
it was on the wall.
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I set it on fire.
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I'd just sit there
and just watch it, you know?
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And from that point on, it's like…
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I was obsessed with fire.
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I don't know if it was… aggression,
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taking it out on my dad, or a part
of my dad, I don't know what it was.
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But it's…
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I actually lost it.
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Coming into my teenage years…
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12, 13 years old…
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I set a lot of buildings on fire,
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a lot of empty houses.
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And while the fires are going,
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and some people think I may be crazy, but…
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I would masturbate while the fire's going.
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And when I'm done,
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like, "Okay,
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I'm good," and I'd just leave.
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You know.
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That's kinda weird.
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That I'd stand in the middle of a fire
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and masturbatin'
while the damn fire's going.
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You know, who does that?
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Know what I mean?
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It's like I can hear another voice saying,
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"Fire time." Right?
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It's like, "Fire time…"
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I want to say it's another person.
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I feel like…
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there was something else,
someone else inside of me, besides me.
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I set my own house on fire one time.
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Everybody was gone to church.
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I set it on fire and I got back in bed
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and I lay down.
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I just stayed there.
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Before I knew it, the fireman
was snatching me out of bed
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and dragged me out of the house,
and I was full of smoke and stuff.
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They're like, "Who set the house on fire?"
I'm like, "I don't know."
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Come to find out, it was me.
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Was it me, or was it someone else?
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I don't know, I can't tell you.
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I… I don't do that.
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It had to be someone else,
it's not me. I don't do that.
84
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Man, I started smoking weed
and drinking wine
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when I was, like, 12 years old.
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Then I started taking Valium
and white crosses,
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walking on top of damn buildings.
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It's like… when I'm doing stuff
like that it's like, I'm bold as hell.
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I feel like I'm ten feet tall,
and I just start doing stuff.
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By the time I was 16,
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I was walking
the streets of Houston, you know.
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I was just getting off
on all kind of stuff.
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I'd go in a store and steal something,
or I have a chance to take some money
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from somebody, I'd do that.
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I got out in '83.
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Hmm.
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I had a job
working in an apartment complex
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and stuff like that.
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It was good while it lasted,
but that's when I started smoking crack.
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In order for me to keep that habit up,
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I was robbing and stealing like crazy
at that time.
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That's when my life
went straight downhill.
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This particular day,
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it was in April.
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I was just walking down the street.
I had, like, 1,800 dollars in my pocket.
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And I had, like… three ounces of rock,
coke, in my pocket.
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And Miss Jolivet,
she was sitting on her porch.
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I waved at her, and she waved back.
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I went around, I jumped over the fence
and sat on the porch with her.
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We was talking about the weather,
how's everything going,
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how's the garden and all that stuff.
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I used to help clean out
the garage and stuff, clean the yard.
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I didn't need anything that day.
I didn't need nothin'.
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I had everything I wanted.
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I was just sitting there.
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All of a sudden I just snapped,
I just popped off in my mind.
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So she got up and she gettin' ready
to go in and I said, "Okay."
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I got up and helped her in,
I held the door open for her,
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and for some damn reason,
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I pushed her all the way--
I pushed her inside the house.
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You know…
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I pushed her inside the house,
she hit the floor.
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I hit her three or four times.
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She was screaming.
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I drug her to the back,
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I ran in and got a knife
out of the kitchen drawer,
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and I stabbed her twice.
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Just like that, like…
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I don't know what that was.
I don't know why I did it.
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Then I sat down on the floor.
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I just sat there, right next to her,
I just sat there.
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I was told I did a lot of shit.
I was told I tore the house up…
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I… I really didn't believe none of that,
but I didn't tear nobody's house up.
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At least I don't think
I tore the house up. I don't…
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I was so full of drugs back then,
there's no telling what I did.
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Man, I don't know.
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I ran so far, I just ran
till I couldn't run no more.
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I sat down on the curb…
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of Tuam and Main, I just sat there.
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And it dawned on me
that I had killed someone.
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No, I didn't kill nobody.
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I couldn't kill nobody, right?
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[woman] The Fifth Ward
is a very old community
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that's been established in Houston
for many, many, many years.
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Back in '88 when this murder occurred,
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it was a pretty heavy
drug trafficking area,
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and not really sure that it's changed
a whole lot in all of these years.
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My name is Sergeant Sharon Evans,
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and I was one of the detectives assigned
to the murder case of Beulah Jolivet.
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[Sharon] As investigators,
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we're the representative of the victim
in all the crimes that we go to.
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So, while doing this,
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I feel like I'm the representative
for Miss Jolivet.
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What we came to know about Miss Jolivet,
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as a result of doing this investigation,
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is that she had lived in this home
for many, many years
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and was well respected
and known by her neighbors.
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For me, the investigation starts
from the second I get out of my car,
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walk up to the front door,
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and when I open the door,
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my job is to detail everything
inside that house.
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Everything.
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From the second I walk in there,
I knew this is going to be brutal.
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There was blood on the floor.
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There were a couple of teeth
from the victim
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that were noticeably in the blood,
that were on the floor in the rug.
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Then there were blood smears
that went from that location
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into the hallway
and continuing through the house.
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There was a radio missing
off her side table,
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that he used the cord of that radio
to strangle around her neck,
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that cord was still there.
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And there was also
a bloody knife on the floor, close to her,
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that he used
to stab her twice in the back.
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And according to the autopsy,
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those two stab marks at the end
were the fatal blows.
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So, when you know that he brutalized
Miss Jolivet all the way through her home,
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kicking and hitting her
and strangling her with the cord,
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and placing the heater on her legs,
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those were not the events that killed her.
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Those were the events
that brutalized her through her own home.
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He went through all the property
inside Miss Jolivet's home
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to find things
that he thought he could sell.
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He closed all the drapes in every room
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so that he could spend whatever time
he wanted to or needed to,
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inside the home,
to go through all of her stuff.
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Deryl made at least three trips
in and out of the house, that I know of,
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and he left the home
and went a few houses down,
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or locally in the neighborhood
and sold those items
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to one of the drug dealers here.
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So, he had no problem
walking in and out of her house,
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00:15:47,403 --> 00:15:50,483
even though he had just
brutally victimized her in that way.
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Those details are very important
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to understanding who he was,
and why he did this action.
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It was not a momentary thing.
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He didn't hit her once,
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00:16:07,963 --> 00:16:10,083
and she hit her head
on the coffee table and died.
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In my opinion,
Deryl Madison was very sadistic.
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00:16:15,723 --> 00:16:17,563
He planned this in his head,
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or planned it
when he was in the home, or both,
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uh, but he was in no hurry.
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[student chatter]
202
00:17:17,283 --> 00:17:19,963
[lecturer] Okay, thanks
for everybody coming today.
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00:17:20,043 --> 00:17:22,563
What we're going to touch base on in class
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00:17:22,643 --> 00:17:26,243
is a brief overview of capital punishment
205
00:17:26,323 --> 00:17:29,043
and the role
that mental health evidence plays
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in these types of cases.
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00:17:34,923 --> 00:17:39,803
…and it revolves around mitigating
evidence that the jury can consider
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to decide that somebody
is essentially less death-worthy.
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00:17:44,003 --> 00:17:45,443
[voice in class fades]
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00:17:45,523 --> 00:17:47,723
My name is John Edens.
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00:17:47,803 --> 00:17:50,603
I am a forensic psychologist by training,
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00:17:50,683 --> 00:17:53,843
and I'm a university professor
at Texas A&M University,
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00:17:54,363 --> 00:17:58,683
where I've done research on
and consulted on capital murder cases
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00:17:58,763 --> 00:18:00,963
for approximately the last 20 years.
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00:18:01,523 --> 00:18:04,603
[in class] You are talking about somebody
who's already been sentenced
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00:18:04,683 --> 00:18:08,723
to either death, or life without parole.
217
00:18:20,723 --> 00:18:24,203
[John] So, in a capital case,
such as this,
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00:18:24,283 --> 00:18:27,643
the defense's role
typically tends to focus on
219
00:18:27,723 --> 00:18:30,723
psychological factors, if they are there,
220
00:18:30,803 --> 00:18:34,203
that paint the defendant
in a more positive light.
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00:18:34,963 --> 00:18:37,243
We're not talking
about turning anybody loose,
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00:18:37,323 --> 00:18:40,083
or saying they're innocent,
or don't deserve to be punished,
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00:18:40,163 --> 00:18:42,523
but saying that they don't deserve to die,
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00:18:42,603 --> 00:18:45,723
based on the sentencing statute
that Texas uses.
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00:19:01,563 --> 00:19:04,043
[John] Dr. Dickerson basically said
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00:19:04,123 --> 00:19:07,123
that Deryl suffered from
dissociative identity disorder.
227
00:19:11,643 --> 00:19:15,643
Essentially, the primary symptom
is the presence of at least two
228
00:19:15,723 --> 00:19:19,283
separable personalities
residing within the same person,
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00:19:19,803 --> 00:19:23,203
that for the most part may act, uh…
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00:19:23,283 --> 00:19:25,843
completely separately from each other.
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00:19:26,443 --> 00:19:31,283
And people historically have referred
to this as multiple personality disorder.
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00:19:36,523 --> 00:19:39,083
Based on Dr. Dickerson's assessment,
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00:19:39,163 --> 00:19:42,323
Deryl's personality is being fragmented
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00:19:42,403 --> 00:19:46,003
into different parts,
and his ability to control his behavior
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00:19:46,083 --> 00:19:48,283
seems to be pretty clearly impaired.
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00:20:04,443 --> 00:20:06,323
[Deryl, on recording] I was about 14.
237
00:20:07,643 --> 00:20:08,803
I was in class.
238
00:20:09,803 --> 00:20:12,323
Everybody in the classroom
was staring at me.
239
00:20:12,403 --> 00:20:13,683
So the teacher said,
240
00:20:14,203 --> 00:20:16,123
"Who are you talking to?" I said…
241
00:20:16,883 --> 00:20:19,123
"What do you mean?
I wasn't talking to nobody."
242
00:20:19,203 --> 00:20:22,083
Everybody in the classroom
was watching me, I was talking,
243
00:20:22,163 --> 00:20:24,723
but I was unaware that I was…
244
00:20:24,803 --> 00:20:25,643
talking.
245
00:20:26,203 --> 00:20:27,323
I didn't know I was.
246
00:20:29,123 --> 00:20:31,923
So I know that's another personality,
it had to be.
247
00:20:32,483 --> 00:20:34,763
It just pops up all of a sudden.
248
00:20:39,443 --> 00:20:44,083
He's certainly describing symptoms
related to disassociation and, uh,
249
00:20:44,163 --> 00:20:45,803
depersonalization.
250
00:20:45,883 --> 00:20:50,563
The fact that he's talking to himself
and not realizing it is a bit…
251
00:20:50,643 --> 00:20:52,763
uh, a little bit unusual.
252
00:20:52,843 --> 00:20:57,083
It's certainly indicative
of somebody who's kind of disconnected
253
00:20:57,163 --> 00:20:59,723
or fragmented from, you know,
parts of himself.
254
00:21:01,883 --> 00:21:04,203
[Deryl, on recording] I don't know
why I killed Miss Jolivet.
255
00:21:05,363 --> 00:21:06,283
I really don't.
256
00:21:08,443 --> 00:21:10,163
But it was like a rage.
257
00:21:12,243 --> 00:21:14,603
A fit of rage that come out of nowhere.
258
00:21:15,523 --> 00:21:18,643
I mean, she never did nothing to me.
You know, but…
259
00:21:19,643 --> 00:21:21,083
Why did I take her life?
260
00:21:23,123 --> 00:21:24,283
You know…
261
00:21:27,123 --> 00:21:29,403
[John] The issue is,
is Deryl morally culpable enough
262
00:21:29,483 --> 00:21:31,923
that he really deserves
to be put to death?
263
00:21:32,003 --> 00:21:35,803
And if I take at face value
264
00:21:35,883 --> 00:21:40,563
how Dr. Dickerson describes
Deryl's mental state,
265
00:21:40,643 --> 00:21:46,323
then that, to me, seems like that would
obviously be a huge mitigating factor
266
00:21:46,403 --> 00:21:48,283
that a jury ought to take into account.
267
00:21:50,243 --> 00:21:52,043
I would have had a very hard time
268
00:21:52,123 --> 00:21:54,163
making the case, in my mind,
269
00:21:54,243 --> 00:21:57,523
that this is somebody
who the death penalty is appropriate for.
270
00:21:59,923 --> 00:22:03,123
If I could wave a magic wand
and put Deryl in a place
271
00:22:03,203 --> 00:22:06,643
where I think it would make the most sense
for someone like him to be,
272
00:22:06,723 --> 00:22:09,603
it would be in a
forensic psychiatric hospital,
273
00:22:09,683 --> 00:22:12,443
more so than in a prison system.
274
00:22:12,523 --> 00:22:14,523
But I don't have a magic wand.
[rueful laugh]
275
00:22:46,923 --> 00:22:51,963
[man] The Texas capital murder statute
is almost unique in the United States,
276
00:22:52,043 --> 00:22:55,963
and the jury has to answer
two particular questions.
277
00:22:57,043 --> 00:23:01,243
One is, "Was the act by the defendant…"
278
00:23:01,323 --> 00:23:05,003
"Was it deliberate?" "Did it cause
the death of the individual?"
279
00:23:06,323 --> 00:23:09,883
The next step is that the jury
has to unanimously decide
280
00:23:09,963 --> 00:23:15,163
that the defendant be constituted
a continuing threat to society.
281
00:23:15,243 --> 00:23:18,523
And if they agree on the first
and on the second special issue,
282
00:23:18,603 --> 00:23:20,923
that automatically results
in a death penalty.
283
00:23:23,483 --> 00:23:28,883
It comes down to, like, flipping a coin.
It's either life or death. That's it.
284
00:23:33,643 --> 00:23:35,803
My name is James W. Marquart,
285
00:23:35,883 --> 00:23:39,043
and I am a sociologist,
criminologist by training.
286
00:23:39,923 --> 00:23:43,163
And I testified in the Deryl Madison case
287
00:23:43,243 --> 00:23:46,803
as an expert in the particular area
of future dangerousness.
288
00:23:50,643 --> 00:23:54,563
Firstly, Deryl was fully responsible
for this murder.
289
00:23:54,643 --> 00:23:56,643
There's no question about it.
290
00:23:56,723 --> 00:23:57,563
But…
291
00:23:57,643 --> 00:24:02,363
are there mitigating factors
in this case in terms of the punishment?
292
00:24:02,443 --> 00:24:05,163
I believe completely that yes, there are.
293
00:24:07,323 --> 00:24:10,723
Deryl grew up in a
poor African-American family.
294
00:24:10,803 --> 00:24:14,043
His father was very abusive,
295
00:24:14,123 --> 00:24:17,363
and he had three other siblings,
so there were four children
296
00:24:17,443 --> 00:24:19,403
and they were all treated horribly.
297
00:24:19,483 --> 00:24:22,563
And I think several of them
have died at a young age.
298
00:24:23,603 --> 00:24:28,003
You know, he was never really socialized
as to how to be a human being.
299
00:24:28,083 --> 00:24:31,683
So, he had a hard time adapting
just in ordinary daily life,
300
00:24:31,763 --> 00:24:36,483
and that set that kid
on a path to-- He didn't have a chance.
301
00:24:36,563 --> 00:24:38,003
Had no chance whatsoever.
302
00:24:45,323 --> 00:24:50,443
If you look at the context of Houston
at the time of the offense,
303
00:24:51,163 --> 00:24:54,003
Houston was awash in cocaine.
304
00:24:55,963 --> 00:24:59,523
And you saw an epidemic
of violent crime in the city itself.
305
00:25:00,923 --> 00:25:02,763
I remember watching the news.
306
00:25:02,843 --> 00:25:06,243
Every night, it was like another murder,
another murder, another murder…
307
00:25:06,323 --> 00:25:08,683
It was like every day this was going on.
308
00:25:10,323 --> 00:25:14,643
It was like a snowball or a train
going downhill, without a driver in it.
309
00:25:14,723 --> 00:25:16,723
And he got swept up into all that.
310
00:25:20,523 --> 00:25:23,203
And if I'm sitting on that jury
at that time,
311
00:25:23,283 --> 00:25:26,523
you know, all these other murders
going on in the city,
312
00:25:26,603 --> 00:25:30,363
I'm probably thinking,
"I'm not going to cut you any slack."
313
00:25:56,563 --> 00:25:58,123
[Deryl, on recording] Believe it or not,
314
00:25:58,203 --> 00:26:01,603
I ain't have no feeling at all
when they gave me the death penalty.
315
00:26:03,083 --> 00:26:06,443
I didn't know what to feel.
It's like, I don't feel anything.
316
00:26:06,523 --> 00:26:08,163
I don't know why it's like that.
317
00:26:08,683 --> 00:26:11,323
It's like when my mom died,
my brothers, my sisters…
318
00:26:11,963 --> 00:26:13,923
I never shed a tear for anyone.
319
00:26:17,043 --> 00:26:18,963
I don't know what it feels like to be…
320
00:26:19,843 --> 00:26:21,283
loved by people.
321
00:26:21,923 --> 00:26:24,403
I don't. I don't know what that is.
322
00:26:25,723 --> 00:26:27,483
I couldn't tell you what that is.
323
00:26:39,883 --> 00:26:42,163
[James]
The guy had a stacked deck against him
324
00:26:42,243 --> 00:26:45,963
almost from the time that he was born
because he had issues in school,
325
00:26:46,043 --> 00:26:47,003
issues at home.
326
00:26:48,003 --> 00:26:51,323
If you have this addiction
and these things, you're paranoid.
327
00:26:51,403 --> 00:26:55,443
And people with this cocaine addiction
engage in risky behavior.
328
00:26:56,083 --> 00:27:02,123
And that kind of destroyed, in his mind,
any sort of a buffer or a blocker.
329
00:27:02,203 --> 00:27:06,043
He saw her as a target and went after her.
He didn't even think about it.
330
00:27:06,123 --> 00:27:08,123
He made an impulsive…
331
00:27:09,243 --> 00:27:10,883
an impulsive decision to do this
332
00:27:10,963 --> 00:27:14,163
without thinking of any
of the ramifications from it.
333
00:27:15,843 --> 00:27:18,563
He's not a professional violent criminal.
334
00:27:18,643 --> 00:27:22,563
He's disorganized,
and tomorrow it could be shoplifting.
335
00:27:23,123 --> 00:27:26,883
And, you know, he just doesn't have
those violent tendencies
336
00:27:26,963 --> 00:27:29,403
that would make him a future threat.
337
00:27:31,043 --> 00:27:34,523
I get it, he committed a horrible crime,
I understand that.
338
00:27:34,603 --> 00:27:39,163
But the death penalty was not
an appropriate sentence at that time.
339
00:27:39,243 --> 00:27:41,163
I… I just… I don't believe it was.
340
00:28:03,443 --> 00:28:04,883
[Sharon] As an investigator,
341
00:28:05,523 --> 00:28:08,123
I completely believe
in our justice system.
342
00:28:10,123 --> 00:28:12,923
We do our investigation
to the best of our ability.
343
00:28:13,003 --> 00:28:15,723
The prosecutors go through
the trial process
344
00:28:15,803 --> 00:28:18,883
and all the evidence
is presented to a jury.
345
00:28:20,483 --> 00:28:24,043
The jury listens to both sides
and everything that was presented to them,
346
00:28:24,123 --> 00:28:25,523
and they make the decision.
347
00:28:25,603 --> 00:28:28,603
And they had no problem, whatsoever,
finding him guilty
348
00:28:28,683 --> 00:28:30,443
and giving him the death penalty.
349
00:28:49,363 --> 00:28:52,523
[Sharon] I can still visualize
Miss Jolivet laying on the floor
350
00:28:52,603 --> 00:28:54,563
in the condition that she was in.
351
00:28:55,203 --> 00:28:59,403
And that's what helps me to sit here
and speak out for her.
352
00:29:00,003 --> 00:29:04,403
At this point, we're the only people there
to represent Miss Jolivet.
353
00:29:07,123 --> 00:29:10,363
I know what her last moments
on this Earth looked like,
354
00:29:11,083 --> 00:29:13,563
and I don't want that part
to be forgotten.
355
00:29:38,603 --> 00:29:41,403
[woman] I witnessed two executions.
356
00:29:42,723 --> 00:29:47,883
I was the first Italian woman
to witness an execution in America.
357
00:29:50,003 --> 00:29:52,723
And it was very hard,
358
00:29:52,803 --> 00:29:55,723
because you can watch,
359
00:29:56,283 --> 00:30:00,083
but you cannot do anything
for the person who is dying.
360
00:30:01,843 --> 00:30:03,283
It is an experience
361
00:30:03,363 --> 00:30:09,323
that you will have in your mind
and your heart for your entire life.
362
00:30:14,163 --> 00:30:15,523
My name is Michela Mancini,
363
00:30:15,603 --> 00:30:19,523
I'm the vice president of the Italian
Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty.
364
00:30:20,483 --> 00:30:22,483
[computer keys clicking]
365
00:30:24,843 --> 00:30:29,963
[Michela] As Italian Coalition
we try to help so many prisoners,
366
00:30:30,043 --> 00:30:32,643
especially in the United States,
367
00:30:32,723 --> 00:30:38,483
because it is the last democracy
that uses the death penalty.
368
00:30:40,243 --> 00:30:43,163
Our intention is to go there
369
00:30:43,243 --> 00:30:46,883
to help them to understand that maybe,
370
00:30:47,403 --> 00:30:50,043
uh, it's not the right solution.
371
00:30:51,323 --> 00:30:53,043
We are citizens of the world.
372
00:30:54,643 --> 00:30:56,643
We must be worried
373
00:30:57,523 --> 00:31:00,603
about what is happening in another state.
374
00:31:14,923 --> 00:31:18,323
[Michela] The first time
I received a letter from Deryl Madison,
375
00:31:18,403 --> 00:31:22,403
it was in 1995.
376
00:31:23,403 --> 00:31:25,923
I started to write him back.
377
00:31:26,003 --> 00:31:28,963
And after that, we continued to write.
378
00:31:29,843 --> 00:31:32,803
And, in 1996,
379
00:31:33,643 --> 00:31:36,043
I went to visit him for the first time.
380
00:31:38,723 --> 00:31:44,043
And, since then,
he became a part of my family.
381
00:31:47,923 --> 00:31:50,283
What convinced me
382
00:31:50,363 --> 00:31:53,963
to help him was
383
00:31:54,043 --> 00:31:58,323
the fact that Deryl was so alone,
384
00:31:58,883 --> 00:32:02,883
and no one took care of him, really.
385
00:32:05,123 --> 00:32:11,283
The only time I was not be able
to look Deryl in his eyes,
386
00:32:12,563 --> 00:32:19,563
it was the day after when I saw
the picture of the lady that died.
387
00:32:21,323 --> 00:32:25,203
If someone had killed my grandmother,
388
00:32:28,243 --> 00:32:32,963
I do want that person
to stay in prison for what he has done.
389
00:32:34,403 --> 00:32:37,243
But, during the visit,
390
00:32:38,803 --> 00:32:41,643
by talking and listening
391
00:32:41,723 --> 00:32:43,843
to what he said,
392
00:32:44,603 --> 00:32:47,763
I understood, at that time,
393
00:32:47,843 --> 00:32:50,603
that what I had in front of me,
394
00:32:50,683 --> 00:32:55,363
it wasn't, no more, the person
that committed that crime.
395
00:32:55,923 --> 00:32:57,603
It was my friend Deryl.
396
00:33:10,963 --> 00:33:14,763
[Michela] My intention was
to save his life.
397
00:33:16,723 --> 00:33:18,043
I didn't care how.
398
00:33:20,643 --> 00:33:24,003
Three weeks before his date of execution,
399
00:33:24,803 --> 00:33:29,683
we tried to go in a hurry
and to find a good lawyer,
400
00:33:29,763 --> 00:33:31,763
someone who could help him,
401
00:33:32,483 --> 00:33:34,363
in a concrete way.
402
00:33:35,123 --> 00:33:39,523
And we were very lucky
because we found Mayer and Brown,
403
00:33:39,603 --> 00:33:44,283
that proposed us to help him for free.
404
00:33:45,643 --> 00:33:48,163
When they had all the documents,
405
00:33:48,243 --> 00:33:50,323
they understood immediately
406
00:33:50,403 --> 00:33:56,123
that probably… [laughs]… something…
They could do something useful for Deryl.
407
00:34:25,523 --> 00:34:27,203
Deryl was very scared.
408
00:34:30,723 --> 00:34:34,843
And when someone has fear,
409
00:34:35,443 --> 00:34:37,723
it is very difficult, no?
410
00:34:37,803 --> 00:34:44,203
Uh, to… to think, to choose,
and to decide something.
411
00:34:45,203 --> 00:34:49,403
But, obviously,
the risk was that another jury
412
00:34:49,483 --> 00:34:52,803
could confirm the death sentence.
413
00:34:56,043 --> 00:34:58,163
He didn't want to go back to trial.
414
00:34:58,963 --> 00:35:03,003
So, after thinking a lot,
415
00:35:03,683 --> 00:35:09,483
uh… he accepted to stay
in prison for his entire life.
416
00:35:43,643 --> 00:35:47,203
[Sharon] I'm surprised to find
that his sentence was overturned.
417
00:35:48,283 --> 00:35:49,403
I'm disappointed,
418
00:35:50,043 --> 00:35:53,603
because I think we had
a very good case at the time.
419
00:36:08,603 --> 00:36:11,043
[Deryl, on recording] As a sane person,
I wouldn't have done it.
420
00:36:11,683 --> 00:36:12,523
You know?
421
00:36:14,283 --> 00:36:17,283
I actually think
there's someone else besides me.
422
00:36:17,363 --> 00:36:19,563
Maybe, it's me doing drugs
423
00:36:19,643 --> 00:36:23,963
that this… other personality I have,
424
00:36:24,043 --> 00:36:25,163
usually pops up.
425
00:36:26,883 --> 00:36:30,043
It's like I can hear another voice saying,
426
00:36:30,883 --> 00:36:32,883
"Yeah, you did this," you know?
427
00:36:34,723 --> 00:36:36,803
I'm like, "No, I didn't do this."
428
00:36:37,723 --> 00:36:40,443
It's like me playing a game with myself.
429
00:36:50,723 --> 00:36:55,723
It's my personal thought that Deryl,
as well as some others that are in prison,
430
00:36:55,803 --> 00:36:58,603
certainly the ones that are on death row,
431
00:36:58,683 --> 00:37:01,043
have learned from the system
432
00:37:01,123 --> 00:37:02,763
what they need to say.
433
00:37:05,963 --> 00:37:09,163
I think it's common for people
that we've incarcerated
434
00:37:09,243 --> 00:37:12,803
to say that it was their mental state,
or the way they were brought up,
435
00:37:12,883 --> 00:37:15,283
or they were brutalized
when they were kids…
436
00:37:15,363 --> 00:37:19,803
They had a drug habit, all kinds of
reasonings that they come up with later,
437
00:37:19,883 --> 00:37:21,923
for why they did the acts that they did.
438
00:37:39,923 --> 00:37:45,123
My personal feelings about Deryl saying
that he was mentally ill at the time
439
00:37:45,203 --> 00:37:47,683
and he thinks it was another person,
440
00:37:47,763 --> 00:37:50,803
I think that's probably the way
he views it now,
441
00:37:50,883 --> 00:37:53,123
versus the way he viewed it at the time.
442
00:37:53,643 --> 00:37:55,803
Maybe he's a little remorseful now,
443
00:37:56,723 --> 00:37:59,323
but that doesn't bring Miss Jolivet back.
444
00:37:59,403 --> 00:38:01,803
That doesn't allow her
to live the rest of her life.
445
00:38:01,883 --> 00:38:04,763
That doesn't take away
the pain and brutality
446
00:38:04,843 --> 00:38:06,963
that she suffered by his hands,
447
00:38:07,483 --> 00:38:09,523
at the time he did this act.
448
00:38:13,323 --> 00:38:15,883
Miss Jolivet deserves
449
00:38:16,723 --> 00:38:19,123
that he get the death penalty
for what he did to her,
450
00:38:19,203 --> 00:38:22,963
because that's the crime
that he committed by taking her life.
451
00:38:24,723 --> 00:38:28,323
In my opinion, he…
he does not deserve life without parole.
452
00:38:55,323 --> 00:38:57,563
[Deryl] During my trial,
after going through everything,
453
00:38:57,643 --> 00:38:59,923
after listening to all the testimony,
454
00:39:00,003 --> 00:39:01,683
and looking back on my life,
455
00:39:03,123 --> 00:39:04,443
and what I've done,
456
00:39:06,123 --> 00:39:09,163
at that time,
yes, I did deserve the death penalty.
457
00:39:10,323 --> 00:39:12,243
You just don't take a life
458
00:39:12,763 --> 00:39:14,883
from someone
that's been living that long, you know?
459
00:39:15,603 --> 00:39:17,563
And you deserve to be punished for it.
460
00:39:17,643 --> 00:39:20,163
I deserved the death penalty
for doing what I did.
461
00:39:20,243 --> 00:39:21,603
Yeah, I understand.
462
00:39:22,523 --> 00:39:25,203
That's how the law works, huh? So…
463
00:39:26,523 --> 00:39:28,643
At the same time,
I'm locked up for the rest of my life.
464
00:39:28,723 --> 00:39:30,163
I'm never getting out again…
465
00:39:33,363 --> 00:39:34,203
you know.
466
00:39:34,283 --> 00:39:35,883
I'm not a monster, right?
467
00:39:36,443 --> 00:39:37,963
But I did commit a crime,
468
00:39:38,603 --> 00:39:39,963
and I am paying for it.
469
00:39:45,603 --> 00:39:47,643
[Sharon, on recording]
Deryl made at least three trips
470
00:39:47,723 --> 00:39:49,683
in and out of the house that I know of,
471
00:39:49,763 --> 00:39:54,603
and he left the home and sold those items
to one of the drug dealers here.
472
00:39:57,323 --> 00:40:00,483
In my opinion,
Deryl Madison was very sadistic.
473
00:40:01,163 --> 00:40:02,843
He planned this in his head,
474
00:40:02,923 --> 00:40:06,043
or planned it
when he was in the home, or both…
475
00:40:06,123 --> 00:40:07,563
but he was in no hurry.
476
00:40:12,003 --> 00:40:14,523
She's the detective
that was in my case, right?
477
00:40:15,403 --> 00:40:17,003
They kept asking me questions,
478
00:40:18,283 --> 00:40:20,763
and I told them exactly what I did.
479
00:40:21,723 --> 00:40:23,043
I didn't lie about anything.
480
00:40:24,003 --> 00:40:26,003
I did take stuff out of the house.
481
00:40:26,083 --> 00:40:30,163
I had no plans of that before,
but when I went in there,
482
00:40:30,243 --> 00:40:34,643
and after she was dead, yeah, I did.
I started just taking stuff out the house.
483
00:40:35,283 --> 00:40:37,403
It was stuff that I sold for crack.
484
00:40:38,003 --> 00:40:41,323
I was thinking like a dope fiend.
I didn't have a clear head.
485
00:40:42,363 --> 00:40:44,443
I was a dope fiend. I wanted drugs.
486
00:40:45,163 --> 00:40:46,443
That's what that was.
487
00:40:49,643 --> 00:40:52,683
I did not plan to murder Miss Jolivet.
488
00:40:53,363 --> 00:40:57,043
That happened while I was there, right?
It just… all of a sudden, it just…
489
00:40:59,003 --> 00:41:00,203
It was a different thing.
490
00:41:00,283 --> 00:41:01,803
Once I was in there,
491
00:41:01,883 --> 00:41:05,283
my whole… my whole mindset changed.
492
00:41:08,003 --> 00:41:10,683
I don't consider myself
an evil person, but…
493
00:41:11,723 --> 00:41:13,003
we have to pay our…
494
00:41:13,923 --> 00:41:16,523
debt to society
anytime we do anything wrong.
495
00:41:19,683 --> 00:41:21,123
I may not like it, but,
496
00:41:21,723 --> 00:41:25,003
as the saying goes, "You make your bed,
you have to lie in it."
497
00:41:29,643 --> 00:41:32,683
Bubba was the name that
my grandmother gave me when I was born.
498
00:41:33,483 --> 00:41:35,843
That's what I call my other personality.
499
00:41:38,923 --> 00:41:40,043
Bubba is…
500
00:41:41,603 --> 00:41:44,043
I wouldn't exactly say my alter ego, but…
501
00:41:44,563 --> 00:41:45,603
[chuckles]
502
00:41:46,323 --> 00:41:48,523
Sort of a Jekyll and Hyde type.
503
00:41:49,843 --> 00:41:53,003
You know, he gets me in trouble.
I'll put it that way.
504
00:41:53,723 --> 00:41:54,563
He's…
505
00:41:55,523 --> 00:41:58,483
it's more like me
asking myself questions, right?
506
00:41:59,003 --> 00:42:02,163
You know,
"What the hell did you do that for?"
507
00:42:03,803 --> 00:42:07,083
I'd get up in the middle of night
and walk back and forth in the cell.
508
00:42:08,003 --> 00:42:08,963
He would say, uh…
509
00:42:10,923 --> 00:42:11,923
"Can't sleep?"
510
00:42:13,203 --> 00:42:15,883
It's just crazy, man… I dunno…
511
00:42:18,483 --> 00:42:21,203
I hope he doesn't do anything stupid
one of these days.
512
00:42:24,763 --> 00:42:27,243
It's not scary because I'm in here, huh?
513
00:42:28,123 --> 00:42:30,083
If I was out there, it'd be different.
514
00:42:35,443 --> 00:42:40,283
[introspective music playing softly]