1
00:00:54,523 --> 00:00:56,363
I took my responsibility.
2
00:00:57,683 --> 00:01:00,003
Nothing I can say or do
could bring him back.
3
00:01:02,723 --> 00:01:04,443
I messed up, you know, and
4
00:01:04,523 --> 00:01:09,003
gotta man up
and, you know, own up to your… actions.
5
00:01:31,083 --> 00:01:34,243
I've been in prison
over a decade already.
6
00:01:37,323 --> 00:01:39,323
It's wrong. That's messed up.
7
00:01:52,563 --> 00:01:54,603
I was a victim myself in this, you know?
8
00:01:56,283 --> 00:01:58,283
And I can't-- I can't do nothing about it.
9
00:01:58,363 --> 00:02:00,843
I can't defend myself.
I cannot say nothing.
10
00:02:51,523 --> 00:02:55,683
As far as investigations go,
it was what we call a cluster.
11
00:02:57,443 --> 00:03:01,283
We had three defendants whose stories
12
00:03:01,363 --> 00:03:03,523
continually changed.
13
00:03:03,603 --> 00:03:07,723
All three of them initially claimed
no knowledge of the incident,
14
00:03:07,803 --> 00:03:10,163
no knowledge of a taxicab ride.
15
00:03:10,243 --> 00:03:13,723
We had three guys
who were downright allergic to the truth.
16
00:03:48,283 --> 00:03:49,683
My name is Chucky Phillips,
17
00:03:49,763 --> 00:03:53,043
and I've been sentenced to 20 to life
for murder in the second.
18
00:03:58,843 --> 00:04:01,723
I was born in Syracuse, New York.
19
00:04:06,683 --> 00:04:08,483
Grew up playing sports.
20
00:04:09,043 --> 00:04:11,003
I was definitely a jock in high school.
21
00:04:11,643 --> 00:04:15,523
I was always the captain of the team,
you know, whatever sport I played.
22
00:04:15,603 --> 00:04:18,163
I had dreams of going to the NFL or MLB,
23
00:04:19,043 --> 00:04:20,203
you know.
24
00:04:20,803 --> 00:04:24,083
They were my dreams in those--
Be a professional athlete one day.
25
00:04:28,883 --> 00:04:32,003
It wasn't till, well, high school
I started getting in trouble.
26
00:04:39,363 --> 00:04:41,643
About freshman year,
27
00:04:41,723 --> 00:04:44,323
I started hanging out with the wrong guys,
you know.
28
00:04:44,403 --> 00:04:46,523
After school, you know,
running the streets.
29
00:04:46,603 --> 00:04:50,843
You know, chasing after girls.
There was a period I was in selling drugs,
30
00:04:50,923 --> 00:04:52,443
at one point, uh…
31
00:04:52,523 --> 00:04:54,243
Teenage boy stuff, you know?
32
00:04:56,683 --> 00:04:58,523
I met Eduardo…
33
00:05:00,163 --> 00:05:02,323
I would say maybe 2007.
34
00:05:02,403 --> 00:05:05,643
He dated my sister.
That's how we got cool.
35
00:05:13,083 --> 00:05:14,323
All right.
36
00:05:15,643 --> 00:05:17,203
My name is Eduardo Trinidad,
37
00:05:17,283 --> 00:05:20,323
and I was convicted for murder,
40 years to life.
38
00:05:24,403 --> 00:05:27,883
I was born in Puerto Rico,
and I was also raised over there.
39
00:05:31,283 --> 00:05:35,163
I grew up in a foster home
'cause my mom had passed.
40
00:05:35,763 --> 00:05:37,803
My father wasn't never there for me.
41
00:05:39,963 --> 00:05:42,483
I was really quiet, uh…
42
00:05:44,483 --> 00:05:45,323
Always timid.
43
00:05:46,683 --> 00:05:48,283
Um, but…
44
00:05:49,163 --> 00:05:53,243
I mean, I wasn't a bad person at all.
45
00:06:10,363 --> 00:06:13,243
I came out here
to the United States for a better life.
46
00:06:15,163 --> 00:06:18,363
I had, like,
work in construction, um, mechanic.
47
00:06:18,443 --> 00:06:20,843
I know plumbing, I know electricity.
48
00:06:21,443 --> 00:06:24,163
Um, they called me a little MacGyver.
49
00:06:24,243 --> 00:06:26,243
I did a little bit of everything around.
50
00:06:43,363 --> 00:06:48,123
My main purpose that same night
was because my son was born that night.
51
00:06:48,723 --> 00:06:51,963
Um, I made it to Syracuse around,
52
00:06:52,043 --> 00:06:56,363
I'd say eleven o'clock, around there,
almost midnight.
53
00:06:57,283 --> 00:07:01,163
So, the visiting hours in the hospitals
are closed. I can't go there.
54
00:07:02,163 --> 00:07:05,643
So, I went to Chu--
I went with Chucky to the party.
55
00:07:06,403 --> 00:07:10,843
Um, and like that, that's how I met
the other guy, DeJesus.
56
00:07:21,643 --> 00:07:24,603
I think the party was
about ten to twelve people.
57
00:07:24,683 --> 00:07:25,963
Wasn't no more than that.
58
00:07:28,523 --> 00:07:31,883
In my part, I wanted to enjoy it
'cause, you know, I'm happy.
59
00:07:31,963 --> 00:07:34,363
I was gonna have my newborn son,
60
00:07:35,323 --> 00:07:36,963
and I wanted to celebrate that.
61
00:07:37,523 --> 00:07:40,483
We did a lot of drinking,
uh, mixing liquor,
62
00:07:41,083 --> 00:07:44,643
beer, you know, various types of pills,
63
00:07:44,723 --> 00:07:48,203
ecstasy, Xanax. There was marijuana there.
64
00:07:48,763 --> 00:07:50,283
We was all pretty wasted.
65
00:07:54,283 --> 00:07:55,603
One of the guys had a gun,
66
00:07:56,123 --> 00:07:56,963
you know.
67
00:07:57,763 --> 00:07:59,843
Even at the party,
it was passed around the party.
68
00:07:59,923 --> 00:08:01,923
The guys at the party wanted to hold it.
69
00:08:02,603 --> 00:08:04,563
Everybody wanted to look at it
and touch it.
70
00:08:07,363 --> 00:08:10,323
The gun…
Who brung it, I don't know.
71
00:08:12,323 --> 00:08:13,483
I touched it, yeah.
72
00:08:14,523 --> 00:08:15,603
I went outside,
73
00:08:15,683 --> 00:08:18,763
trying to use it, but it didn't work.
74
00:08:19,283 --> 00:08:22,963
Um, after that,
I don't know who… who got it.
75
00:08:25,843 --> 00:08:29,523
The owner of the apartment got mad
and started kicking everybody out.
76
00:08:48,763 --> 00:08:51,203
I was sitting
behind the passenger.
77
00:08:51,283 --> 00:08:55,323
DeJesus was in the middle,
and Chucky Phillips was behind the driver.
78
00:08:58,243 --> 00:08:59,683
Nobody was talking.
79
00:09:00,363 --> 00:09:03,403
The only one that was doing the talking
was me 'cause I was on the phone,
80
00:09:03,483 --> 00:09:06,963
talking to, um, my kid's mom
that's in the hospital.
81
00:09:14,163 --> 00:09:17,883
When we get in the city,
someone says, "Make a right, right here."
82
00:09:17,963 --> 00:09:19,483
So we turn off the main road.
83
00:09:23,163 --> 00:09:24,883
And I notice that's not my street.
84
00:09:25,443 --> 00:09:27,083
That's when I said, "Okay,
85
00:09:27,163 --> 00:09:29,203
we must be running
because this is not my street."
86
00:09:29,283 --> 00:09:33,243
You know, just… It was gonna be like
not pay for a taxi ride, just run.
87
00:09:33,323 --> 00:09:35,923
You know, young stupid kids' stuff,
you know?
88
00:09:39,443 --> 00:09:42,283
All I heard was the car going slow.
89
00:09:44,403 --> 00:09:47,363
I didn't even know that the gun
was in the cab when we left.
90
00:09:51,083 --> 00:09:55,363
I see Denny take the gun,
and he pulls it on the driver.
91
00:09:56,083 --> 00:09:57,763
So I think maybe he's going to rob him.
92
00:09:59,003 --> 00:10:00,963
The driver grabs the gun from him,
93
00:10:01,043 --> 00:10:02,403
and there's a struggle.
94
00:10:02,483 --> 00:10:07,163
So, I don't know why, I just--
I grabbed it, and I yanked it from him.
95
00:10:08,363 --> 00:10:09,283
And…
96
00:10:10,163 --> 00:10:12,003
-I shot him.
97
00:10:27,683 --> 00:10:30,083
I was opening the door
when I heard a boom.
98
00:10:30,803 --> 00:10:32,403
I ran out of the car
99
00:10:32,483 --> 00:10:34,603
and ran between some houses.
100
00:10:36,083 --> 00:10:39,283
I came back down
to see where was the guys,
101
00:10:39,363 --> 00:10:43,203
and I didn't see the… the cab driver.
102
00:10:43,283 --> 00:10:45,003
The car wasn't there anymore.
103
00:10:45,603 --> 00:10:49,723
So, I thought that everything was cool
and I went back to the house.
104
00:10:49,803 --> 00:10:53,763
I went up the hill, went to the house,
and they was already there.
105
00:10:58,523 --> 00:11:01,043
In the morning was
when they came and arrested us.
106
00:11:02,163 --> 00:11:05,003
We all got arrested
and got taken down to the prison.
107
00:11:34,843 --> 00:11:36,163
My name is Ted Kiefer.
108
00:11:37,963 --> 00:11:42,083
I was one of the investigators
involved in the Timothy Gordon homicide.
109
00:11:47,643 --> 00:11:51,363
I believe that this went
from jumping the fare,
110
00:11:52,163 --> 00:11:53,283
to a robbery,
111
00:11:53,963 --> 00:11:55,403
ultimately to a murder.
112
00:12:05,403 --> 00:12:06,603
After being shot,
113
00:12:07,643 --> 00:12:09,603
Mr. Gordon traveled
114
00:12:09,683 --> 00:12:11,683
about one mile.
115
00:12:11,763 --> 00:12:15,843
And I believe he was in some sort
of severe shock
116
00:12:15,923 --> 00:12:17,643
with the trauma to his head,
117
00:12:18,883 --> 00:12:20,603
being shot at close range.
118
00:12:21,683 --> 00:12:25,803
Where he ended up was where,
ultimately, we got involved initially.
119
00:12:25,883 --> 00:12:28,243
The scene of his motor vehicle accident.
120
00:12:35,843 --> 00:12:40,003
Mr. Gordon was traveling
in this direction, towards us.
121
00:12:40,083 --> 00:12:44,123
When he got to the intersection,
he failed to stop at the stop sign,
122
00:12:44,203 --> 00:12:46,323
or turn right or left.
123
00:12:46,403 --> 00:12:51,163
As such, at a high rate of speed,
he traveled across this street,
124
00:12:51,843 --> 00:12:53,803
entered into this driveway here,
125
00:12:53,883 --> 00:12:55,803
colliding with a parked vehicle.
126
00:12:57,643 --> 00:12:59,763
It was a horrible, horrible crash.
127
00:13:01,963 --> 00:13:05,163
And it was all the result
of a senseless crime.
128
00:13:30,003 --> 00:13:32,163
Timmy Gordon was just
out trying to earn a living.
129
00:13:32,883 --> 00:13:36,803
The fare he picked up couldn't have been
more than a twenty dollar bill.
130
00:13:37,323 --> 00:13:40,923
I guess the emotion
is just the true senselessness of it.
131
00:13:41,003 --> 00:13:44,523
The fact that for… for a ride home
on a bitter cold night,
132
00:13:44,603 --> 00:13:46,723
it cost this man who's out working,
133
00:13:46,803 --> 00:13:48,963
not sleeping like
the rest of civilization,
134
00:13:49,043 --> 00:13:50,243
it cost him his life
135
00:13:50,763 --> 00:13:52,603
for less than a 20 dollar bill.
136
00:13:56,043 --> 00:13:57,843
It generates a lot of emotion.
137
00:14:47,963 --> 00:14:51,563
When I first laid eyes
on these defendants, all three of them,
138
00:14:52,203 --> 00:14:54,923
I thought to myself,
"These are little boys."
139
00:14:55,003 --> 00:14:57,163
"They're young men at best."
140
00:14:57,803 --> 00:15:00,003
I couldn't believe
how young they appeared.
141
00:15:26,483 --> 00:15:30,043
Mr. Trinidad was known
to our gang violence task force.
142
00:15:30,603 --> 00:15:32,003
They had a file on him.
143
00:15:32,603 --> 00:15:35,243
They knew him by his nickname: Ba La.
144
00:15:36,763 --> 00:15:40,123
Trinidad volunteers
that Chucky Phillips and himself
145
00:15:40,203 --> 00:15:43,243
are active members
of the Latin Kings street gang.
146
00:16:19,323 --> 00:16:23,763
Eduardo Trinidad placed all the blame
on Denny DeJesus.
147
00:16:24,403 --> 00:16:26,883
Chucky Phillips, he did the same.
148
00:16:26,963 --> 00:16:28,003
So we had two people
149
00:16:28,083 --> 00:16:30,803
placing all the blame on Denny DeJesus.
150
00:16:33,683 --> 00:16:35,883
What shocked most of us
investigating the case
151
00:16:35,963 --> 00:16:38,523
was that these three so-called friends,
152
00:16:38,603 --> 00:16:42,203
two of these friends were willing
to throw the third friend under the bus
153
00:16:42,283 --> 00:16:43,883
for something he didn't do.
154
00:16:44,443 --> 00:16:49,043
Cop or no cop, in my opinion,
that's pretty grimy.
155
00:16:49,963 --> 00:16:52,763
Willing to throw
somebody else's life away.
156
00:17:04,043 --> 00:17:07,203
According to Trinidad,
he was merely going to jump the fare,
157
00:17:07,803 --> 00:17:10,763
but at some point during jumping the fare,
158
00:17:11,283 --> 00:17:13,123
he was alerted by Chucky
159
00:17:13,963 --> 00:17:15,483
to come back to the scene.
160
00:17:15,563 --> 00:17:18,523
He could've kept on running.
He got out of the cab and left.
161
00:17:18,603 --> 00:17:20,363
He could have kept running. He didn't.
162
00:17:20,443 --> 00:17:24,483
He turns, he goes back to the cab,
and according to him,
163
00:17:24,563 --> 00:17:28,083
he was going to help
run the cabbie's pockets.
164
00:17:28,163 --> 00:17:32,723
However, there was too much blood
on the cabbie, and at the scene.
165
00:17:35,643 --> 00:17:37,283
So any claims…
166
00:17:38,683 --> 00:17:42,323
that Mr. Trinidad might have
about being a passive observer,
167
00:17:42,403 --> 00:17:45,603
according to his own statement, he wasn't.
168
00:18:39,523 --> 00:18:43,803
Felony murder, a classic example
would be the bank robbery.
169
00:18:44,643 --> 00:18:48,203
Let's say multiple individuals
decide to rob a bank.
170
00:18:48,803 --> 00:18:53,443
One individual stays outside
to actively be the lookout.
171
00:18:54,203 --> 00:18:56,403
Other individuals go inside.
172
00:18:56,483 --> 00:19:00,483
The gun is discharged,
and an innocent security guard is killed.
173
00:19:01,603 --> 00:19:03,923
All three people could be liable,
174
00:19:04,003 --> 00:19:07,003
because they had the shared intent
to rob the bank.
175
00:19:07,083 --> 00:19:11,243
So, it is a way
to hold all participants liable
176
00:19:11,323 --> 00:19:14,043
for the death of another
during the course of a felony.
177
00:19:16,643 --> 00:19:20,763
My name is Kerry Buske. I was one
of the assistant district attorneys
178
00:19:20,843 --> 00:19:24,963
assigned to prosecute the case
of the People of the State of New York
179
00:19:25,043 --> 00:19:28,523
versus Chucky Phillips, Denny DeJesus,
and Eduardo Trinidad.
180
00:19:38,203 --> 00:19:41,283
Plea bargaining gets cases resolved.
181
00:19:41,883 --> 00:19:43,923
From the prosecution standpoint,
182
00:19:44,003 --> 00:19:48,523
they won't have to put their victim,
their victim's family, their witnesses
183
00:19:48,603 --> 00:19:50,403
through every single case,
184
00:19:51,003 --> 00:19:53,083
and they can save resources.
185
00:19:54,283 --> 00:19:57,443
In exchange for that guilty plea,
186
00:19:57,523 --> 00:20:04,003
the People will often offer
a reduced sentence, or a reduced charge.
187
00:20:13,123 --> 00:20:15,483
Chucky Phillips did apologize.
188
00:20:15,563 --> 00:20:20,443
He did show a degree of remorse and regret
for this horrific action.
189
00:20:21,603 --> 00:20:25,323
And that, I think,
is reflective in his 20 to life sentence.
190
00:20:40,723 --> 00:20:46,363
I was really surprised that Eduardo
didn't want to try to negotiate something.
191
00:20:46,443 --> 00:20:48,723
Maybe he didn't want to take exactly
what we were offering,
192
00:20:48,803 --> 00:20:52,443
but that he wasn't coming,
trying to negotiate us down.
193
00:20:52,523 --> 00:20:54,123
Even up to the morning of the trial,
194
00:20:54,203 --> 00:20:56,843
I remember going in
for jury selection thinking,
195
00:20:56,923 --> 00:20:58,403
"I think he's probably gonna plea,
196
00:20:58,483 --> 00:21:00,963
'cause the blood of the victim
is on his coat,"
197
00:21:01,043 --> 00:21:03,523
and he said he ran the pockets of the guy.
198
00:21:03,603 --> 00:21:07,443
He was clearly notified
of the potential ramifications
199
00:21:07,523 --> 00:21:11,163
of what could happen
after a conviction by jury.
200
00:21:12,643 --> 00:21:16,643
He chose to not take that plea,
to reject it,
201
00:21:17,243 --> 00:21:20,123
and to take the case to trial.
He's allowed to do that.
202
00:21:20,203 --> 00:21:23,443
It is the People's burden to prove
their case beyond a reasonable doubt.
203
00:21:23,523 --> 00:21:26,363
It was called upon us to do it.
And we did it.
204
00:21:26,443 --> 00:21:28,483
He was convicted of all three counts,
205
00:21:28,563 --> 00:21:31,003
and he was sentenced
by a county court judge.
206
00:21:41,923 --> 00:21:44,643
Why I plead
not guilty instead of plea bargain?
207
00:21:45,163 --> 00:21:46,843
Because I wasn't gonna allow them
208
00:21:46,923 --> 00:21:52,203
to try to have me say I'm guilty
for something I didn't do.
209
00:21:56,003 --> 00:21:59,123
We didn't participate together on it,
you know what I'm saying?
210
00:21:59,883 --> 00:22:03,843
Nobody pointed me
as the guy who pulled the trigger.
211
00:22:04,443 --> 00:22:05,443
Nobody.
212
00:22:09,163 --> 00:22:13,923
I wasn't shocked, um,
when I heard them say guilty, or whatever.
213
00:22:15,923 --> 00:22:18,563
At first, I was-- I didn't believe it.
214
00:22:19,523 --> 00:22:22,003
I… I didn't have the feeling
of believing it.
215
00:22:26,203 --> 00:22:29,803
Hell… It's a decade lost already
with my kids.
216
00:22:29,883 --> 00:22:32,243
They're already grown-ups, um…
217
00:22:33,123 --> 00:22:35,043
I lost all that part, um…
218
00:22:38,123 --> 00:22:41,163
Um, that's pretty something like
messed up, you know?
219
00:22:50,803 --> 00:22:57,403
I feel very sorry
for Timothy Gordon's family and friends.
220
00:22:58,083 --> 00:23:04,083
I did not, at one point
during this recording…
221
00:23:06,003 --> 00:23:09,683
hear one mention…
…of a man's life that was innocently…
222
00:23:09,763 --> 00:23:13,363
Um, an innocent man's life
that was brutally taken from him.
223
00:23:14,283 --> 00:23:17,643
He doesn't like the concept
of felony murder.
224
00:23:17,723 --> 00:23:21,043
He doesn't like the fact
that he was held responsible,
225
00:23:21,123 --> 00:23:22,963
even though he wasn't the shooter.
226
00:23:23,043 --> 00:23:27,123
And he is angry at the law
he was prosecuted under.
227
00:23:28,763 --> 00:23:31,003
He mentions his own children.
228
00:23:31,083 --> 00:23:34,723
You know, Timothy Gordon is never
gonna get to have his children,
229
00:23:34,803 --> 00:23:37,043
he's never gonna get
to call home to them.
230
00:23:37,843 --> 00:23:42,243
So this is essentially, in my opinion,
231
00:23:42,323 --> 00:23:46,123
the same Ba La that stood up at sentencing
232
00:23:46,203 --> 00:23:49,883
after a… jury found him guilty,
233
00:23:51,403 --> 00:23:53,443
and said, "This is an injustice,
234
00:23:53,523 --> 00:23:55,763
and I'm gonna fight it
till the bitter end."
235
00:23:55,843 --> 00:23:58,163
That's what he's doing. Um…
236
00:23:58,243 --> 00:24:03,843
it's just a complete disregard for
the evidence that was presented at trial,
237
00:24:03,923 --> 00:24:08,083
and a complete disregard
for a man's life that was lost.
238
00:24:33,683 --> 00:24:36,043
I'm still trying
to figure out to this day, like…
239
00:24:37,603 --> 00:24:38,483
Why?
240
00:24:41,443 --> 00:24:43,923
I can't even tell you the answer, like…
241
00:24:44,003 --> 00:24:46,483
I wasn't in my right state of mind. Um…
242
00:24:47,323 --> 00:24:49,723
It's hard to explain, because
243
00:24:49,803 --> 00:24:55,203
I think it was a combination
of alcohol and pills mixing, you know?
244
00:24:57,843 --> 00:25:01,243
Worst mistake of my life.
You know, I think about it every day.
245
00:25:01,323 --> 00:25:04,563
You know, not only that I took a life,
but I ruined my life.
246
00:25:06,523 --> 00:25:09,203
The gun was Trinidad's.
He brought it from Utica.
247
00:25:10,443 --> 00:25:13,283
Just the lifestyle,
the lifestyle he lived, you know.
248
00:25:13,963 --> 00:25:16,723
I don't know if he needed it
for protection or he just need--
249
00:25:16,803 --> 00:25:19,163
He wanted it,
just the lifestyle he lived.
250
00:25:22,123 --> 00:25:24,323
You know, I… I took my responsibility.
251
00:25:25,403 --> 00:25:29,483
My part's played. I pled guilty.
People don't usually plead guilty.
252
00:25:31,443 --> 00:25:34,403
I felt that it was the right thing to do,
you know?
253
00:25:37,323 --> 00:25:41,283
I feel bad for the parties involved,
you know, like the deceased…
254
00:25:43,323 --> 00:25:44,323
co-defendants.
255
00:25:47,763 --> 00:25:49,403
Trinidad, his sentence blew my mind
256
00:25:49,483 --> 00:25:52,403
'cause he got 40 to life
for going to trial.
257
00:25:53,883 --> 00:25:57,483
It's just… It don't make sense how…
258
00:25:58,563 --> 00:25:59,883
if I pled guilty
259
00:26:00,803 --> 00:26:01,923
and he went to trial,
260
00:26:02,003 --> 00:26:04,363
he gets more time than me
for the same crime.
261
00:26:05,843 --> 00:26:07,883
It makes me believe that,
262
00:26:08,843 --> 00:26:11,083
okay, I did the right thing
with taking a plea deal,
263
00:26:11,163 --> 00:26:15,123
because I would have had 40 to life.
There's no question about that.
264
00:27:06,563 --> 00:27:09,283
Denny has always been consistent
265
00:27:10,443 --> 00:27:13,963
that he did not know
there was going to be any shooting.
266
00:27:15,523 --> 00:27:19,523
He had no concept
that they were going to use the gun
267
00:27:19,603 --> 00:27:22,603
that had been played with at the party.
268
00:27:29,723 --> 00:27:34,763
I believe that Denny DeJesus did pay
269
00:27:34,843 --> 00:27:38,203
for what Chucky Phillips
and Eduardo Trinidad did.
270
00:27:40,843 --> 00:27:46,283
However, the fact that Eduardo Trinidad
is serving 40 years to life
271
00:27:47,203 --> 00:27:50,003
and the shooter is serving
20 years to life,
272
00:27:50,643 --> 00:27:55,883
this is one of the big injustices
of the criminal justice system.
273
00:27:57,723 --> 00:28:00,443
I'm not saying that Trinidad is innocent.
274
00:28:00,523 --> 00:28:04,843
I'm saying that his sentence
is hugely disproportionate.
275
00:28:06,003 --> 00:28:09,843
The fact that he was guilty
did not warrant
276
00:28:11,683 --> 00:28:13,643
double the sentence of the shooter.
277
00:28:17,723 --> 00:28:23,043
People are being penalized for
exercising their right to a jury trial.
278
00:28:25,003 --> 00:28:31,123
I do have a deeply ingrained sense
of justice and fairness,
279
00:28:31,203 --> 00:28:37,403
and plea bargaining
goes against some of that grain.
280
00:28:40,323 --> 00:28:44,123
Everybody accused of a crime
in the United States
281
00:28:44,203 --> 00:28:48,083
has the right to a fair trial by a jury.
282
00:28:48,603 --> 00:28:53,243
And, if they are coerced
into pleading guilty
283
00:28:53,323 --> 00:28:57,763
by the fact that if they go to trial
and they get found guilty,
284
00:28:57,843 --> 00:29:00,763
they are going to get
a much harsher sentence
285
00:29:00,843 --> 00:29:03,763
than what they would get
if they plead guilty,
286
00:29:03,843 --> 00:29:06,683
it's… it's violating the Constitution.
287
00:29:12,003 --> 00:29:17,883
I believe that equal sentences
for Trinidad and Chucky Phillips
288
00:29:17,963 --> 00:29:20,283
would have been completely appropriate.
289
00:29:20,923 --> 00:29:27,523
Obviously, with plea bargaining
there is going to be some disparity,
290
00:29:27,603 --> 00:29:30,843
but… two times as much?
291
00:29:31,923 --> 00:29:33,443
This case is just…
292
00:29:34,363 --> 00:29:35,363
shouting…
293
00:29:38,363 --> 00:29:41,203
…"Injust-- Unjust result."
294
00:30:06,963 --> 00:30:08,483
The name is Bill Walsh.
295
00:30:09,243 --> 00:30:12,763
I was a county court judge
in Onondaga County for 11 years.
296
00:30:30,683 --> 00:30:35,883
My recollection of Eduardo Trinidad was
that he was fairly aloof during the trial.
297
00:30:38,003 --> 00:30:42,083
I can't remember how much
he participated with his lawyer,
298
00:30:42,163 --> 00:30:47,043
but I had the distinct feeling that
he's what the Irish would call a hard man.
299
00:30:47,683 --> 00:30:48,563
Uh…
300
00:30:49,523 --> 00:30:52,243
What I heard during the trial
301
00:30:52,323 --> 00:30:56,483
was just how cold and senseless
the crime itself was.
302
00:30:56,563 --> 00:30:58,443
It just didn't need to happen.
303
00:30:58,523 --> 00:31:02,723
They could have taken the money
and they could have left. But they didn't.
304
00:31:02,803 --> 00:31:05,043
Mr. Gordon picked them up,
305
00:31:06,323 --> 00:31:09,883
took them where they wanted,
did everything that he was supposed to do,
306
00:31:09,963 --> 00:31:12,443
and was rewarded with a bullet
in the back of the head.
307
00:31:12,523 --> 00:31:14,363
And that was just senseless.
308
00:31:21,003 --> 00:31:23,523
Had Mr. Trinidad elected
to plead guilty,
309
00:31:23,603 --> 00:31:26,763
in all likelihood,
his sentence would've been less,
310
00:31:26,843 --> 00:31:30,603
because if he waives his right to appeal,
that ends it.
311
00:31:30,683 --> 00:31:33,363
Two co-defendants
have already pled guilty,
312
00:31:33,443 --> 00:31:37,563
uh, and that would've been the third,
and it would've ended for the family.
313
00:31:37,643 --> 00:31:40,923
They wouldn't have to
have relived it a second time.
314
00:31:41,003 --> 00:31:44,123
And I think that was very damaging
to the family.
315
00:31:44,203 --> 00:31:47,963
The anguish you could see
on their faces was heartbreaking.
316
00:31:48,043 --> 00:31:52,723
And I felt that he could have
spared them that, and he did not.
317
00:31:53,643 --> 00:31:54,963
And he was punished appropriately
318
00:31:55,043 --> 00:31:57,403
with the maximum sentence
permissible under the law.
319
00:31:59,643 --> 00:32:02,643
He was sentenced to the maximum,
320
00:32:02,723 --> 00:32:04,803
under the murder conviction,
321
00:32:04,883 --> 00:32:08,723
of a minimum of 25 years
and a maximum of life in prison,
322
00:32:08,803 --> 00:32:14,283
and he received 15 years on the
criminal possession of a weapons charge.
323
00:32:14,843 --> 00:32:17,803
He could be sentenced consecutively,
which I did.
324
00:32:17,883 --> 00:32:21,003
So, uh… that was, uh…
325
00:32:22,363 --> 00:32:24,243
It was a pretty sizable sentence.
326
00:32:28,323 --> 00:32:31,523
I base my decision
as to an appropriate sentence
327
00:32:31,603 --> 00:32:33,523
on what I hear during the trial.
328
00:32:36,643 --> 00:32:39,963
If you roll the dice, doesn't pay off,
329
00:32:40,043 --> 00:32:42,243
there's a price to be paid for that.
330
00:33:10,243 --> 00:33:15,003
Chucky with 20, and me with 40 to life.
331
00:33:16,443 --> 00:33:17,963
I don't think that's fair.
332
00:33:19,763 --> 00:33:21,523
My life's been destroyed.
333
00:33:23,443 --> 00:33:26,683
I would have been going with my kids,
trying to enjoy life.
334
00:33:27,243 --> 00:33:29,763
Trying to give my kids things I never had…
335
00:33:30,323 --> 00:33:31,723
Uh, parents.
336
00:33:33,443 --> 00:33:37,203
I would have tried to give that to them,
tried to break the cycle,
337
00:33:37,283 --> 00:33:40,163
try to bring a better-- My life with…
338
00:33:40,923 --> 00:33:42,043
with our family, as well.
339
00:33:45,843 --> 00:33:51,443
My earliest
release for parole will be in 2047.
340
00:33:52,883 --> 00:33:55,403
I think I'll be around 70
around that time.
341
00:33:58,203 --> 00:34:00,323
It will be a whole wasted lifetime.
342
00:34:05,403 --> 00:34:08,763
At that time, you won't be able
to manage nothing. What can you do?
343
00:34:26,203 --> 00:34:29,163
Well, it was interesting hearing from him.
344
00:34:29,243 --> 00:34:32,563
I think that was the first time
that I've really heard from him,
345
00:34:32,643 --> 00:34:33,763
but, uh…
346
00:34:35,763 --> 00:34:37,643
I would probably expect
347
00:34:38,283 --> 00:34:39,803
that same, uh,
348
00:34:40,643 --> 00:34:45,243
same type of speech from virtually
any defendant that I sentenced
349
00:34:45,323 --> 00:34:49,523
that wound up in jail after being
convicted of a crime by a jury. Uh…
350
00:34:49,603 --> 00:34:50,843
He maintains his innocence
351
00:34:50,923 --> 00:34:54,763
and that doesn't come
as much of a surprise, but, uh,
352
00:34:54,843 --> 00:34:57,523
Mr. Trinidad elected to go to trial,
353
00:34:57,603 --> 00:35:00,083
he was found guilty
by a jury of his peers,
354
00:35:00,163 --> 00:35:01,643
and he was sentenced accordingly.
355
00:35:01,723 --> 00:35:04,763
And he absolutely deserves
to be where he is today.
356
00:35:07,323 --> 00:35:09,203
The shooting would not have happened
357
00:35:09,283 --> 00:35:12,123
had not Mr. Trinidad
given Mr. Phillips the gun.
358
00:35:12,763 --> 00:35:15,683
Without that assistance,
there would be no murder.
359
00:35:15,763 --> 00:35:19,163
There would be no murder charge
against either one of them.
360
00:35:19,243 --> 00:35:21,323
It would've simply been a robbery.
361
00:35:21,403 --> 00:35:22,643
But he chose
362
00:35:23,843 --> 00:35:27,763
to assist Mr. Phillips
in the taking of a human life,
363
00:35:28,723 --> 00:35:31,843
and he is just as guilty
as the fellow who pulled the trigger.
364
00:35:31,923 --> 00:35:34,683
And I'm very comfortable
with what I sentenced him to.
365
00:36:08,723 --> 00:36:11,203
I chose to fight for my rights.
366
00:36:12,483 --> 00:36:15,723
And I think everybody has the right
to do that.
367
00:36:17,363 --> 00:36:18,603
The system is broken.
368
00:36:19,203 --> 00:36:22,563
And they're doing to people just like me,
all the time.
369
00:36:22,643 --> 00:36:23,883
All the time. Always.
370
00:36:24,643 --> 00:36:26,283
We got to be real about that.
371
00:36:32,443 --> 00:36:35,163
He goes back
to the cab, and according to him,
372
00:36:35,243 --> 00:36:39,243
he was going to help
run the cabbie's pockets.
373
00:36:39,323 --> 00:36:44,083
However, there was too much blood
on the cabbie and at the scene.
374
00:36:44,163 --> 00:36:48,083
No, it was not about running pockets
or nothing, you know what I'm saying?
375
00:36:48,163 --> 00:36:51,123
I was really worrying about what happened,
you know what I'm saying?
376
00:36:51,203 --> 00:36:53,003
I came running back down.
377
00:36:53,083 --> 00:36:55,323
Yeah, and my intention was,
378
00:36:55,403 --> 00:36:58,603
if there's nobody around
who could help him, I'm gonna help him.
379
00:36:58,683 --> 00:36:59,883
But he was gone.
380
00:36:59,963 --> 00:37:01,363
So I thought it was all right.
381
00:37:01,443 --> 00:37:05,283
I thought nothing really bad happened,
you know what I'm saying?
382
00:37:05,363 --> 00:37:07,003
Until I seen it on the news.
383
00:37:08,043 --> 00:37:10,163
That's when my heart broke for real.
384
00:37:14,243 --> 00:37:17,123
The gun was Trinidad's.
He brought it from Utica.
385
00:37:18,203 --> 00:37:20,803
Just the
lifestyle, the lifestyle he lived,
386
00:37:20,883 --> 00:37:21,763
you know.
387
00:37:21,843 --> 00:37:24,483
I don't know if he needed it
for protection or he just need--
388
00:37:24,563 --> 00:37:27,083
He wanted it,
just the lifestyle he lived.
389
00:37:29,243 --> 00:37:32,563
No, um, I did come from Utica.
390
00:37:32,643 --> 00:37:36,003
But not with a weapon.
That weapon was already there.
391
00:37:36,083 --> 00:37:37,723
That got nothing to do with me.
392
00:37:40,443 --> 00:37:45,043
Trinidad's sentence blew my mind 'cause
he got 40 to life for going to trial.
393
00:37:47,043 --> 00:37:50,403
It just shows
the justice system is unfair.
394
00:37:52,723 --> 00:37:54,443
No, it wasn't fair at all.
395
00:37:56,803 --> 00:38:00,243
I just came for my newborn son.
396
00:38:00,763 --> 00:38:02,843
I came for my newborn son.
397
00:38:04,443 --> 00:38:07,203
And didn't made it. Didn't made it, um…
398
00:38:10,283 --> 00:38:11,683
I mean…
399
00:38:11,763 --> 00:38:15,803
I know a lot of people--
They're gonna look at it, like,
400
00:38:15,883 --> 00:38:20,003
lied, or whatever the position is, but…
401
00:38:20,683 --> 00:38:23,523
um, I just came
to celebrate my son, to see him,
402
00:38:23,603 --> 00:38:25,403
to hold him in my hand, you know?
403
00:38:25,483 --> 00:38:27,963
At least to accomplish something
that my dad didn't do.
404
00:38:28,683 --> 00:38:29,563
And, um…
405
00:38:30,523 --> 00:38:32,603
I guess I got a…
406
00:38:32,683 --> 00:38:36,723
I didn't have the opportunity.
I wasn't having enough luck for that.
407
00:38:40,883 --> 00:38:43,603
I destroyed ten years
of my life already on this.
408
00:38:48,163 --> 00:38:49,523
Is this really justice?