1 00:00:14,419 --> 00:00:16,488 (ELEVATOR DINGS) 2 00:00:18,122 --> 00:00:20,792 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 3 00:00:22,460 --> 00:00:23,926 -BUTCH BARR: Stephen. -STEPHEN PANDOS: Hey, Butch. 4 00:00:23,995 --> 00:00:25,360 -How are you? -STEPHEN: Good. How are you? 5 00:00:25,429 --> 00:00:27,797 -Yeah. Good seeing you again. -STEPHEN: Good to see you too. 6 00:00:27,866 --> 00:00:29,131 BUTCH: So tell me what's going on. 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,034 The last time you and I spoke about your situation... 8 00:00:32,103 --> 00:00:33,568 -Mm-hmm. -...with your sister, 9 00:00:33,637 --> 00:00:36,238 things were more than a little unsettled. 10 00:00:36,307 --> 00:00:37,605 Can you bring me up-to-date? 11 00:00:37,674 --> 00:00:40,509 Yeah. The police department lost the original case file. 12 00:00:40,578 --> 00:00:43,378 Turns out that they found it. Don't know what's in it. 13 00:00:43,447 --> 00:00:44,980 They said there was some new stuff 14 00:00:45,049 --> 00:00:46,247 that they were following up on. 15 00:00:46,316 --> 00:00:48,817 Is there a way for us to get access to that-- 16 00:00:48,886 --> 00:00:50,385 to the new case file? 17 00:00:50,454 --> 00:00:52,988 If it's an ongoing investigation, 18 00:00:53,057 --> 00:00:55,290 they will not release any information 19 00:00:55,359 --> 00:00:58,226 that would affect the present investigation. 20 00:00:58,295 --> 00:01:00,295 -Sure. -After 31 years, 21 00:01:00,364 --> 00:01:03,765 it is rare for a police department 22 00:01:03,834 --> 00:01:07,335 to reopen a file, 23 00:01:07,404 --> 00:01:11,343 a case investigation, unless they have... 24 00:01:12,343 --> 00:01:14,910 very good reason to do so. 25 00:01:14,979 --> 00:01:16,111 -Now, have you... -Okay. 26 00:01:16,180 --> 00:01:17,849 ...reconciled with your parents? 27 00:01:18,417 --> 00:01:19,648 No, no. 28 00:01:19,717 --> 00:01:20,615 -No? -No. 29 00:01:20,684 --> 00:01:23,085 BUTCH: I keep coming back to this idea 30 00:01:23,154 --> 00:01:24,687 of you getting your life back together, 31 00:01:24,756 --> 00:01:27,088 and-- and one of the ways 32 00:01:27,157 --> 00:01:29,224 to do that is if there's a result, 33 00:01:29,293 --> 00:01:31,159 but it's not the one you anticipate. 34 00:01:31,228 --> 00:01:33,498 What impact is that gonna have on you? 35 00:01:35,199 --> 00:01:36,599 I don't know. 36 00:01:36,668 --> 00:01:38,033 (ELEVATOR DINGS) 37 00:01:38,102 --> 00:01:39,804 ♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 38 00:02:24,782 --> 00:02:26,843 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 39 00:02:26,912 --> 00:02:28,984 INTERVIEWER: So, Jennifer Pandos, 40 00:02:29,053 --> 00:02:30,552 you knew her, correct? 41 00:02:30,621 --> 00:02:32,553 Yes, I went to high school with Jennifer Pandos, 42 00:02:32,622 --> 00:02:35,390 we were in the same classes in school. 43 00:02:35,459 --> 00:02:37,392 INTERVIEWER: Do you remember when she went missing? 44 00:02:37,461 --> 00:02:39,894 JAKE RICE: I can't say that I remember the exact time. 45 00:02:39,963 --> 00:02:43,899 I knew her a lot more when we were in middle school 46 00:02:43,968 --> 00:02:45,734 and grade school. 47 00:02:45,803 --> 00:02:47,835 When she went missing, 48 00:02:47,904 --> 00:02:50,372 everything that I knew of at the time from school, 49 00:02:50,441 --> 00:02:51,944 was that she had ran away. 50 00:02:53,010 --> 00:02:55,175 Oh, okay. 51 00:02:56,948 --> 00:02:58,347 Okay. (CHUCKLES) 52 00:02:58,416 --> 00:02:59,848 INTERVIEWER: So can you start out 53 00:02:59,917 --> 00:03:03,351 by just telling us a little bit about Jennifer 54 00:03:03,420 --> 00:03:06,621 and your friendship, and who she was... 55 00:03:06,690 --> 00:03:08,493 -(CHUCKLES) -...you know, just describe her. 56 00:03:13,497 --> 00:03:17,099 SHARON ROSE STEWARD: She was like a firecracker. 57 00:03:17,168 --> 00:03:18,499 She didn't have fear. 58 00:03:18,568 --> 00:03:22,337 She sometimes didn't have a filter. (CHUCKLING) 59 00:03:22,406 --> 00:03:26,108 She would just say whatever was on her mind. 60 00:03:26,177 --> 00:03:27,409 INTERVIEWER: So, if you don't mind 61 00:03:27,478 --> 00:03:29,344 tell me your name and your relationship 62 00:03:29,413 --> 00:03:30,911 to the Pandos family. 63 00:03:30,980 --> 00:03:35,350 My name is Kerrie Campbell, and I was Jennifer's friend. 64 00:03:35,419 --> 00:03:37,753 So we'd always hangout at school together. 65 00:03:37,822 --> 00:03:40,322 She would go with the popular kids, 66 00:03:40,391 --> 00:03:42,557 or with those who weren't so popular 67 00:03:42,626 --> 00:03:45,160 and I was definitely not one in the popular ones 68 00:03:45,229 --> 00:03:47,095 so it was nice to have a friendship 69 00:03:47,164 --> 00:03:48,831 with somebody who didn't really care 70 00:03:48,900 --> 00:03:52,467 if you were with the in crowd or not. 71 00:03:52,536 --> 00:03:54,302 And if you were having a bad day, 72 00:03:54,371 --> 00:03:55,604 one way or another, 73 00:03:55,673 --> 00:03:58,343 she would get you to laugh or smile about something. 74 00:03:59,177 --> 00:04:00,479 I kinda miss that. 75 00:04:01,745 --> 00:04:05,414 Jenny is somebody I knew from high school days. 76 00:04:05,483 --> 00:04:07,549 We had a good friendship. 77 00:04:07,618 --> 00:04:09,551 We talked most days on the phone. 78 00:04:09,620 --> 00:04:11,786 You know, she was usually happy. 79 00:04:11,855 --> 00:04:16,358 I know that sometimes though, she... she struggled. 80 00:04:16,427 --> 00:04:19,427 She didn't get angry often but when she did, 81 00:04:19,496 --> 00:04:21,901 you could kinda see that little temper flare. 82 00:04:23,062 --> 00:04:24,933 While Jenny and I weren't a thing, 83 00:04:25,002 --> 00:04:27,068 I'd be a fool to say that I didn't have a little bit 84 00:04:27,137 --> 00:04:29,739 of a crush on her, you know? So part of my conversations 85 00:04:29,808 --> 00:04:32,007 were always looking for that "in." 86 00:04:32,076 --> 00:04:32,974 (LAUGHS) 87 00:04:33,043 --> 00:04:34,705 JEFF SEIBERT: But it mostly centered around... 88 00:04:34,774 --> 00:04:35,643 No way. We did not. 89 00:04:35,712 --> 00:04:37,012 ...the clowning around. I mean, 90 00:04:37,081 --> 00:04:39,147 it was one of the reasons I liked talking to her, 91 00:04:39,216 --> 00:04:41,449 you know? She'd make me laugh. 92 00:04:41,518 --> 00:04:43,352 KERRIE CAMPBELL VALDEZ: We did talk about the cars 93 00:04:43,421 --> 00:04:44,853 that we liked at the time 94 00:04:44,922 --> 00:04:48,491 and who we thought we would marry. 95 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:49,757 Well, for a long time, 96 00:04:49,826 --> 00:04:52,597 she thought she was gonna marry Tony Tobler. 97 00:04:54,865 --> 00:04:56,264 JENNIFER PANDOS, ACTOR: "A confession. 98 00:04:56,333 --> 00:04:58,366 A confession from my heart. 99 00:04:58,435 --> 00:04:59,902 I've really become greatly inspired 100 00:04:59,971 --> 00:05:02,737 by caring for you. You're my fantasy. 101 00:05:02,806 --> 00:05:05,475 One in which I've always dreamed would come true. 102 00:05:05,544 --> 00:05:07,009 You're my shining star, 103 00:05:07,078 --> 00:05:08,377 my guiding light." 104 00:05:08,446 --> 00:05:10,278 "Carrying me through the bad times, 105 00:05:10,347 --> 00:05:11,680 through day and night. 106 00:05:11,749 --> 00:05:15,417 You're someone I can count on, rely on and confide in. 107 00:05:15,486 --> 00:05:17,318 You're my special friend. 108 00:05:17,387 --> 00:05:19,621 What I've said, of course, is all true. 109 00:05:19,690 --> 00:05:22,291 There never will be, or ever was, 110 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:24,563 anyone quite as wonderful as you." 111 00:05:25,396 --> 00:05:30,502 ♪ (MELANCHOLY MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 112 00:05:32,837 --> 00:05:34,669 TONY TOBLER: I lived in Newport News 113 00:05:34,738 --> 00:05:37,772 and my mother lived in Williamsburg and I 114 00:05:37,841 --> 00:05:40,943 came to live with her, and started high school 115 00:05:41,012 --> 00:05:42,044 at Lafayette. 116 00:05:42,113 --> 00:05:44,579 SHARON: And the girls were, like, crazy over Tony. 117 00:05:44,648 --> 00:05:46,514 I remember that-- everybody like-- 118 00:05:46,583 --> 00:05:48,449 plus, he was a new guy, and he was cute. 119 00:05:48,518 --> 00:05:50,852 But the girls went nuts over him. 120 00:05:50,921 --> 00:05:53,255 CORI TOBLER: We dated for a short time 121 00:05:53,324 --> 00:05:55,627 and then stopped for... 122 00:05:56,260 --> 00:05:57,492 -months. -TONY: Hmm. 123 00:05:57,561 --> 00:05:59,798 -And that's when he dated her. -Yeah. 124 00:06:01,265 --> 00:06:05,768 RON PANDOS: Infatuation. Boyfriend-girlfriend type deal. 125 00:06:05,837 --> 00:06:08,469 I think that's the way she looked at it. 126 00:06:08,538 --> 00:06:10,809 Um... I don't know how he looked at it. 127 00:06:13,544 --> 00:06:15,443 MARGIE PANDOS: He was two years older than she was, 128 00:06:15,512 --> 00:06:19,414 and they didn't date like we dated. 129 00:06:19,483 --> 00:06:21,416 There were no Saturday night movies, 130 00:06:21,485 --> 00:06:23,484 or Friday night football games. 131 00:06:23,553 --> 00:06:26,689 I just thought it was hanging out at school. 132 00:06:26,758 --> 00:06:28,924 As far as a physical relationship, 133 00:06:28,993 --> 00:06:29,995 I had no clue. 134 00:06:31,663 --> 00:06:32,631 No clue. 135 00:06:38,169 --> 00:06:40,735 MARGIE: They were home from school, 2:30, 3:30, 136 00:06:40,804 --> 00:06:42,605 somewhere in that neighborhood. And I didn't get home 137 00:06:42,674 --> 00:06:44,609 from work until 5:00. 138 00:06:51,182 --> 00:06:54,753 He had gotten her pregnant, and we had a-- had an abortion. 139 00:06:57,288 --> 00:06:59,721 She just came out and told me 140 00:06:59,790 --> 00:07:03,195 what she and Tony had decided that they wanted to do about it. 141 00:07:05,663 --> 00:07:07,466 RON: How did I react to it? 142 00:07:08,032 --> 00:07:08,897 Shocked. 143 00:07:08,966 --> 00:07:11,136 -♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ -Pissed off. 144 00:07:12,170 --> 00:07:13,701 Um... 145 00:07:13,770 --> 00:07:16,639 Wanting to know what in the world was going on 146 00:07:16,708 --> 00:07:18,840 with both of them. 147 00:07:18,909 --> 00:07:22,547 I did not want her to see Tony. I did not want Tony to see her. 148 00:07:23,381 --> 00:07:24,446 I knew that that was something 149 00:07:24,515 --> 00:07:26,551 that was an embarrassment for them. 150 00:07:27,651 --> 00:07:29,818 Like, a major embarrassment for them. 151 00:07:29,887 --> 00:07:31,586 But... 152 00:07:31,655 --> 00:07:33,456 I don't really think he liked our relationship 153 00:07:33,525 --> 00:07:34,927 before that happened. 154 00:07:35,627 --> 00:07:36,895 A lot of it has-- 155 00:07:37,962 --> 00:07:40,361 the community that they lived in, 156 00:07:40,430 --> 00:07:41,529 like I said, was at the time, 157 00:07:41,598 --> 00:07:44,733 was the premiere gated community in Williamsburg. 158 00:07:44,802 --> 00:07:48,573 And I lived in a trailer park. 159 00:07:50,541 --> 00:07:52,975 Her parents did not like that. 160 00:07:53,044 --> 00:07:56,078 Her dad was a very controlling person. 161 00:07:56,147 --> 00:07:57,747 Like, with the whole family. 162 00:07:57,816 --> 00:08:04,823 ♪ (MELANCHOLY MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 163 00:08:07,691 --> 00:08:09,791 -Hey, Wen. I'm Stephen, how are you? -Hey, Stephen. 164 00:08:09,860 --> 00:08:12,327 -I'm doing good. -STEPHEN: Good to see you. Give me a hug. 165 00:08:12,396 --> 00:08:14,996 STEPHEN: You guys didn't spend a lot of time at our house. 166 00:08:15,065 --> 00:08:15,964 Right? 167 00:08:16,033 --> 00:08:17,299 -WENDY JUEDE: No... -STEPHEN: Yeah. 168 00:08:17,368 --> 00:08:19,801 ...not really. I don't know, there's been a few people 169 00:08:19,870 --> 00:08:22,771 I've been around in my life that made me very uneasy. 170 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,007 Your dad, he was one of them people. 171 00:08:25,076 --> 00:08:28,110 Did she ever say anything to you about... 172 00:08:28,179 --> 00:08:30,613 problems that she had with my father or mother, 173 00:08:30,682 --> 00:08:32,047 or anything like that? 174 00:08:32,116 --> 00:08:35,955 She had had an abortion. And then things were... 175 00:08:36,887 --> 00:08:38,820 You could tell there was more tension 176 00:08:38,889 --> 00:08:40,655 -in the house after that. -Right. 177 00:08:40,724 --> 00:08:43,053 WENDY: From that point on, he was gonna know 178 00:08:43,122 --> 00:08:44,026 everything she was doing. 179 00:08:44,095 --> 00:08:46,428 Of course, her and Tony breaking up and-- 180 00:08:46,497 --> 00:08:47,830 STEPHEN: Yeah, I don't remember too much 181 00:08:47,899 --> 00:08:49,731 about that relationship but was it volatile? 182 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:51,734 Was it-- Or typical, sort of, 183 00:08:51,803 --> 00:08:53,803 high school relationship kinda thing? 184 00:08:53,872 --> 00:08:55,837 -Yeah, typical high school. -Yeah. 185 00:08:55,906 --> 00:08:57,873 Tony had done moved on, you know? 186 00:08:57,942 --> 00:08:59,979 -Right. -He had done moved on with Cori. 187 00:09:06,750 --> 00:09:10,518 SHARON: She was torn up over breaking up with Tony. 188 00:09:10,587 --> 00:09:13,692 And then, we started dating again. 189 00:09:14,393 --> 00:09:15,790 And... 190 00:09:15,859 --> 00:09:17,793 it seemed fine. I think it was harder on her 191 00:09:17,862 --> 00:09:20,529 than we realized at the time. 192 00:09:20,598 --> 00:09:22,865 SHARON: When Cori and Tony started dating, 193 00:09:22,934 --> 00:09:25,267 it was like a challenge for Jennifer. 194 00:09:25,336 --> 00:09:29,170 She would walk by his classes. She would go by Cori's classes. 195 00:09:29,239 --> 00:09:31,139 She would do things... (CHUCKLES) ...just to like, 196 00:09:31,208 --> 00:09:33,943 aggravate her-- Cori. 197 00:09:34,012 --> 00:09:36,712 Um, or to make sure that Tony knew 198 00:09:36,781 --> 00:09:38,783 that she was around. 199 00:09:39,649 --> 00:09:42,021 She would do s... (BREATHES SHAKILY) 200 00:09:46,758 --> 00:09:49,224 (SOBS) But that's-- you know, 201 00:09:49,293 --> 00:09:52,631 and she would tell me she would do this stuff, you know? 202 00:09:54,565 --> 00:09:56,301 (CLICKS TONGUE) Um... 203 00:09:57,267 --> 00:09:59,300 She hated Cori. (LAUGHS) 204 00:09:59,369 --> 00:10:02,041 JENNIFER, ACTOR: I can't do this anymore. I feel like I'm going crazy. 205 00:10:02,673 --> 00:10:05,840 (SOBS, BREATHES HEAVILY) 206 00:10:05,909 --> 00:10:09,077 MARGIE: Fifteen is not the nicest year of your life. 207 00:10:09,146 --> 00:10:11,781 I do remember, she just broke down 208 00:10:11,850 --> 00:10:14,449 and said she didn't want to be crazy. 209 00:10:14,518 --> 00:10:18,921 Jennifer knew she needed help. But she just wasn't ready yet, 210 00:10:18,990 --> 00:10:21,390 or I had not found the proper person 211 00:10:21,459 --> 00:10:23,058 for her to talk to. 212 00:10:23,127 --> 00:10:26,094 You could see when your child's in pain. 213 00:10:26,163 --> 00:10:30,102 You want to do everything you can for them and... 214 00:10:35,039 --> 00:10:37,176 that's my greatest failure in life. 215 00:10:38,710 --> 00:10:39,975 ♪ (SOFT MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 216 00:10:40,044 --> 00:10:43,211 KERRIE: I was just shocked that she left. 217 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,648 It just seemed like she had a good group of friends 218 00:10:45,717 --> 00:10:47,617 that she could've talked to. 219 00:10:47,686 --> 00:10:49,885 I just remember thinking, 220 00:10:49,954 --> 00:10:54,450 "What was so wrong that you had to just go?" 221 00:10:54,519 --> 00:10:56,591 INTERVIEWER: What was your gut reaction 222 00:10:56,660 --> 00:10:59,131 to the notion that she had run away? 223 00:11:00,264 --> 00:11:02,363 It kinda seemed like her. 224 00:11:02,432 --> 00:11:04,265 It seemed definitely plausible 225 00:11:04,334 --> 00:11:08,007 that she had decided to go somewhere for a while. 226 00:11:11,310 --> 00:11:12,444 INTERVIEWER: 227 00:11:14,445 --> 00:11:16,845 How well do I think I knew her? 228 00:11:16,914 --> 00:11:19,147 -I mean, I knew her. -CORI: Or you think you know her. 229 00:11:19,216 --> 00:11:24,252 Yeah. But I mean, like, if you're asking me, 230 00:11:24,321 --> 00:11:26,622 "Do I think it's possible there was a whole another side 231 00:11:26,691 --> 00:11:27,990 to her that I didn't know?" 232 00:11:28,059 --> 00:11:30,229 I guess that's possible. I don't know. 233 00:11:41,473 --> 00:11:43,008 And I remember too, 234 00:11:43,708 --> 00:11:45,044 at some point... 235 00:11:46,310 --> 00:11:47,910 It might have been in junior high. 236 00:11:47,979 --> 00:11:50,645 I do remember Jennifer 237 00:11:50,714 --> 00:11:53,343 running away once. I don't know why though. 238 00:11:53,412 --> 00:11:54,850 -I don't remember why. -Right. 239 00:11:54,919 --> 00:11:55,984 STEPHEN: You know, just curious, 240 00:11:56,053 --> 00:11:58,487 if you have anything that you remember 241 00:11:58,556 --> 00:12:02,061 from people speculating what might've happened when... 242 00:12:03,427 --> 00:12:05,430 about the time she disappeared or anything? 243 00:12:06,797 --> 00:12:09,264 I-- I remember when it all happened... 244 00:12:09,333 --> 00:12:11,767 -STEPHEN: Mm-hmm. -And, you know, of course, 245 00:12:11,836 --> 00:12:13,302 it was all the whisper at school, 246 00:12:13,371 --> 00:12:16,238 -you know, because the police were involved. -STEPHEN: Sure. 247 00:12:16,307 --> 00:12:20,708 But I felt like it faded away pretty quickly though. 248 00:12:20,777 --> 00:12:22,678 Now that I'm older, I'm thinking back, 249 00:12:22,747 --> 00:12:24,279 "Why did it come off like that?" 250 00:12:24,348 --> 00:12:27,048 To me, it should've been search parties... 251 00:12:27,117 --> 00:12:28,283 -STEPHEN: Right. -...it should've been, 252 00:12:28,352 --> 00:12:31,086 "This is not normal. This is Williamsburg." 253 00:12:31,155 --> 00:12:32,821 -STEPHEN: Right. -And I never got that feeling. 254 00:12:32,890 --> 00:12:34,690 I never... You know? And... 255 00:12:34,759 --> 00:12:35,585 Um... 256 00:12:35,654 --> 00:12:37,025 STEPHEN: Right, because I think, you know, 257 00:12:37,094 --> 00:12:38,860 typically, the parents are the ones, you know, 258 00:12:38,929 --> 00:12:42,525 who drive those kinda things to happen. 259 00:12:42,594 --> 00:12:43,899 -THOMAS ANDERSON: Right. -STEPHEN: Right? 260 00:12:43,968 --> 00:12:46,405 And I don't know that my parents ever... 261 00:12:47,438 --> 00:12:49,274 made those things happen. 262 00:12:50,207 --> 00:12:52,542 Right? If that makes sense. Right? 263 00:12:52,610 --> 00:12:53,608 Yeah, it does. 264 00:12:53,677 --> 00:12:55,944 And honestly, it never crossed my mind that way... 265 00:12:56,013 --> 00:12:57,282 -Oh. -...till now. 266 00:13:00,312 --> 00:13:02,988 (CRICKETS CHIRPING) 267 00:13:06,257 --> 00:13:07,956 MARGIE: I didn't write the note. 268 00:13:08,025 --> 00:13:09,857 I didn't leave it in her room. 269 00:13:09,926 --> 00:13:12,694 I didn't help Ron remove the body from the house. 270 00:13:12,763 --> 00:13:14,062 -INVESTIGATOR: Okay. So-- -I didn't help-- 271 00:13:14,131 --> 00:13:16,598 INVESTIGATOR: So Ron removed the body from the house? 272 00:13:16,667 --> 00:13:19,799 If he did, I didn't help him! 273 00:13:26,043 --> 00:13:28,176 -♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ -(KNOCKING) 274 00:13:28,245 --> 00:13:29,945 -Hey, what's up? -STEPHEN: How you doing? 275 00:13:30,014 --> 00:13:31,541 DONNIE NORRELL: Have you ever met Lena? 276 00:13:31,610 --> 00:13:32,842 -STEPHEN: Oh, no. Hi, Ms. Lena. -Hi. 277 00:13:32,911 --> 00:13:34,649 -STEPHEN: Okay, great. -LENA SISCO: Nice to meet you. 278 00:13:34,718 --> 00:13:36,251 -STEPHEN: Nice to meet you too. Thank you very much for-- -Oh, you're welcome. 279 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,721 DONNIE: She's gonna help with the interview with Margie. 280 00:13:38,790 --> 00:13:39,921 -STEPHEN: Okay. -DONNIE: She was 281 00:13:39,990 --> 00:13:42,090 -a Navy interrogator. -LENA: Mm. 282 00:13:42,159 --> 00:13:44,559 She learned how to pick up on deceptive behavior 283 00:13:44,628 --> 00:13:47,162 and we're gonna team up, and we've been discussing... 284 00:13:47,231 --> 00:13:49,632 -STEPHEN: Yeah. Uh-huh. -...our approach and everything. 285 00:13:49,701 --> 00:13:51,366 Going down there to Charlotte... 286 00:13:51,435 --> 00:13:52,935 -STEPHEN: Mm-hmm. -...to interview your mom, 287 00:13:53,004 --> 00:13:54,303 do you think she's willing 288 00:13:54,372 --> 00:13:56,938 or have you talked with her recently about it? 289 00:13:57,007 --> 00:13:59,308 STEPHEN: I think that she'll do it. She's done... 290 00:13:59,377 --> 00:14:01,543 everything that I've ever asked her to do. 291 00:14:01,612 --> 00:14:05,180 Evidently, she feels in her mind she's already, 292 00:14:05,249 --> 00:14:08,317 for the last 30 years, had been telling what she knows. 293 00:14:08,386 --> 00:14:09,812 There may be some really stronger-- 294 00:14:09,881 --> 00:14:13,822 I think there are some semantics to what she says 295 00:14:13,891 --> 00:14:17,292 versus what she knows. But she knows. 296 00:14:17,361 --> 00:14:19,527 You know, in that interview, there's this one section 297 00:14:19,596 --> 00:14:21,263 -of where she-- Almost like a Freudian slip... -LENA: Mm-hmm. 298 00:14:21,332 --> 00:14:24,967 ...she's like "I didn't help Ron remove the body from the house." 299 00:14:25,036 --> 00:14:27,436 That's huge. "I didn't help Ron..." 300 00:14:27,505 --> 00:14:30,305 STEPHEN: "I didn't help Ron remove the body from the house." 301 00:14:30,374 --> 00:14:32,307 LENA: Deception, I look for it, and I hear it. 302 00:14:32,376 --> 00:14:35,744 So, "I didn't" is indicative of a truthful statement. 303 00:14:35,813 --> 00:14:38,280 Now, not a hundred percent. If she were to say, "I did not," 304 00:14:38,349 --> 00:14:40,282 -it's what we call a convincing language. -STEPHEN: Right. 305 00:14:40,351 --> 00:14:41,816 But the fact that it just came out, 306 00:14:41,885 --> 00:14:44,086 -"I didn't help Ron remove the body..." -STEPHEN: Mm-hmm. 307 00:14:44,155 --> 00:14:46,387 ...seems that it could be a very truthful statement. 308 00:14:46,456 --> 00:14:51,560 DONNIE: I got in my notes, in July 23rd, 2009, interview, 309 00:14:51,629 --> 00:14:53,228 one of the questions asked, 310 00:14:53,297 --> 00:14:55,096 "Where do you think the body is?" 311 00:14:55,165 --> 00:14:59,972 She said, "In the river, mill pond, railroad tracks." 312 00:15:00,539 --> 00:15:01,540 She made those... 313 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,476 Those were kinda weird comments. 314 00:15:06,710 --> 00:15:12,084 I have had 22 years to imagine where that child is. 315 00:15:13,417 --> 00:15:16,218 From what I told you, James River, the river po-- 316 00:15:16,287 --> 00:15:20,388 the mill pond, the railroad track. 317 00:15:20,457 --> 00:15:23,095 God only knows where he could've taken her. 318 00:15:25,597 --> 00:15:27,632 (BIRDS CHIRPING) 319 00:15:30,402 --> 00:15:31,703 INTERVIEWER: 320 00:15:37,675 --> 00:15:39,144 (WENDI REED CHUCKLES) 321 00:15:43,881 --> 00:15:45,046 It was... 322 00:15:45,115 --> 00:15:49,684 kind of a mixed feeling I guess, once that case file was found. 323 00:15:49,753 --> 00:15:53,188 On one hand, I was very excited because I thought that 324 00:15:53,257 --> 00:15:57,893 it may give us some further avenues to investigate 325 00:15:57,962 --> 00:16:01,229 and potentially bring it in to the case. 326 00:16:01,298 --> 00:16:05,568 On the other hand, it kind of made us look stupid, 327 00:16:05,637 --> 00:16:09,071 and not very professional. 328 00:16:09,140 --> 00:16:10,675 INTERVIEWER: Can you tell us where it was? 329 00:16:12,042 --> 00:16:15,276 I can only tell you where I was told it was. 330 00:16:15,345 --> 00:16:17,913 It was found in the records room, 331 00:16:17,982 --> 00:16:20,348 in a box of old case files. 332 00:16:20,417 --> 00:16:22,487 INTERVIEWER: And how does something like that happen? 333 00:16:23,416 --> 00:16:24,489 I don't know. 334 00:16:25,455 --> 00:16:28,223 I know the records had been searched 335 00:16:28,292 --> 00:16:30,758 at least three different times, 336 00:16:30,827 --> 00:16:33,765 thoroughly, for this case file, and it wasn't there. 337 00:16:34,198 --> 00:16:35,534 And then it was. 338 00:16:37,534 --> 00:16:40,572 -INTERVIEWER: -(SMACKS LIPS) It does. 339 00:16:41,639 --> 00:16:43,934 ♪ (SOLEMN MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 340 00:16:44,003 --> 00:16:46,274 WENDI: I don't know all of what Jake has done. 341 00:16:46,343 --> 00:16:49,077 I don't know all of what was in that case file. 342 00:16:49,146 --> 00:16:53,252 I can see how that would be confusing for Stephen. 343 00:16:56,587 --> 00:16:59,622 INTERVIEWER: Given that the original case file 344 00:16:59,691 --> 00:17:01,656 has reappeared, 345 00:17:01,725 --> 00:17:05,794 what is your gut instinct now about the case? 346 00:17:05,863 --> 00:17:08,196 My 99-percent gut 347 00:17:08,265 --> 00:17:12,434 is that the parents are responsible for the note. 348 00:17:12,503 --> 00:17:13,535 (GRUNTS) 349 00:17:13,604 --> 00:17:16,638 DONNIE: I challenge anybody that has a teenager 350 00:17:16,707 --> 00:17:20,509 that wakes up in the morning and finds this crazy note, 351 00:17:20,578 --> 00:17:24,479 that's not gonna immediately call 911. 352 00:17:24,548 --> 00:17:27,482 -She's never done this before. -INTERVIEWER: She has. 353 00:17:27,551 --> 00:17:31,219 She ran away one time, how long was she gone? 354 00:17:31,288 --> 00:17:34,756 INTERVIEWER: I don't know but it is part of her... 355 00:17:34,825 --> 00:17:36,958 -Where is she gonna go? -So, it's not fair to say 356 00:17:37,027 --> 00:17:39,523 she's never done this before. 357 00:17:39,592 --> 00:17:40,662 It's not fair to say. 358 00:17:40,731 --> 00:17:42,831 -♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ -I just... 359 00:17:42,900 --> 00:17:44,366 It doesn't make sense. 360 00:17:44,435 --> 00:17:49,208 What doesn't make sense usually isn't true. 361 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:03,788 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 362 00:18:05,689 --> 00:18:07,255 INTERVIEWER: We talked to Stephen this morning, 363 00:18:07,324 --> 00:18:09,291 he's wanting to call you today. 364 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:12,160 He wants to ask you to do one more interview. 365 00:18:12,229 --> 00:18:13,663 -MARGIE: With? -INTERVIEWER: So. 366 00:18:13,732 --> 00:18:15,596 He's hired this PI. 367 00:18:15,665 --> 00:18:20,135 I can't understand why he would hire a private detective. 368 00:18:20,204 --> 00:18:23,204 I don't know what they could glean 369 00:18:23,273 --> 00:18:27,712 -that the police hadn't already. -(TELEPHONE RINGING) 370 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:37,418 Hello? 371 00:18:37,487 --> 00:18:40,422 -STEPHEN: (OVER PHONE) Hey, Mom. -Hi, Stevie. 372 00:18:40,491 --> 00:18:44,092 -STEPHEN: How are you? -I'm all right. How about you? 373 00:18:44,161 --> 00:18:45,327 STEPHEN: I'm doing okay. 374 00:18:45,396 --> 00:18:49,765 So on Saturday, would you be open to talking 375 00:18:49,834 --> 00:18:53,935 to Donnie Norrell and his partner, Lena, 376 00:18:54,004 --> 00:18:55,540 about Jennifer? 377 00:18:56,841 --> 00:18:59,208 I have no problem with that. 378 00:18:59,277 --> 00:19:01,376 STEPHEN: Okay. Well, I didn't think that you would. 379 00:19:01,445 --> 00:19:04,516 But I just... I just have to ask. That's all. 380 00:19:04,916 --> 00:19:06,146 Okay. 381 00:19:07,484 --> 00:19:09,785 STEPHEN: All right, well, I miss you lots 382 00:19:09,854 --> 00:19:12,691 and love you lots, and, um... 383 00:19:15,226 --> 00:19:16,528 I'll uh-- 384 00:19:18,296 --> 00:19:22,197 -I miss you too. -I know you do. I know you do. 385 00:19:22,266 --> 00:19:23,831 I will talk to you in a day or two. 386 00:19:23,900 --> 00:19:26,702 Just let me work out the details here, okay? 387 00:19:26,771 --> 00:19:29,037 -Okay. -Okay. Bye. 388 00:19:29,106 --> 00:19:30,875 -Bye. -Bye, Mom. Bye. 389 00:19:33,143 --> 00:19:37,582 (SNIFFLES, BREATHES DEEPLY) 390 00:19:39,417 --> 00:19:41,853 I don't know how long it's been since I've seen him. 391 00:19:43,854 --> 00:19:45,390 I really don't remember. 392 00:19:47,224 --> 00:19:48,393 (SNIFFLES) 393 00:19:49,027 --> 00:19:50,262 Oh, well... 394 00:19:52,129 --> 00:19:54,629 ♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 395 00:19:54,698 --> 00:19:56,464 LENA: When I prepare for an interview, 396 00:19:56,533 --> 00:19:58,533 the question is purposely phrased 397 00:19:58,602 --> 00:20:01,203 -to elicit a narrative response. -STEPHEN: Mm-hmm. 398 00:20:01,272 --> 00:20:03,939 And so, as she's giving me a narrative response 399 00:20:04,008 --> 00:20:06,574 and I'm detecting deception, it helps me determine 400 00:20:06,643 --> 00:20:08,143 whether or not you're being truthful. 401 00:20:08,212 --> 00:20:09,510 STEPHEN: All right. 402 00:20:09,579 --> 00:20:12,481 I'm gonna have a, you know, a short chat with her before 403 00:20:12,550 --> 00:20:15,450 and just encourage her to tell the truth. 404 00:20:15,519 --> 00:20:17,881 DONNIE: Are we gonna be in a position to... 405 00:20:17,950 --> 00:20:19,521 -LENA: Hmm. -...make any offer 406 00:20:19,590 --> 00:20:22,324 about the family being back together 407 00:20:22,393 --> 00:20:24,726 or see your grandkids, that kinda stuff? 408 00:20:24,795 --> 00:20:28,300 I think the most honest answer is I'm willing to do the work. 409 00:20:34,138 --> 00:20:36,239 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 410 00:20:36,308 --> 00:20:39,344 (BIRDS CHIRPING) 411 00:20:42,346 --> 00:20:47,752 ♪ (GENTLE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 412 00:20:52,356 --> 00:20:55,557 So we're on the way to see my mother. 413 00:20:55,626 --> 00:20:58,726 Maybe the first time I've seen her in... 414 00:20:58,795 --> 00:21:02,301 quite a few years. I haven't been out to her house. 415 00:21:03,767 --> 00:21:05,971 I can't even remember the last time I was here. 416 00:21:06,905 --> 00:21:08,268 I'm very nervous. 417 00:21:22,253 --> 00:21:23,284 Last time I saw him, 418 00:21:23,353 --> 00:21:25,024 he wouldn't even let me touch him. 419 00:21:37,301 --> 00:21:39,471 (BIRDS CHIRPING) 420 00:21:47,278 --> 00:21:49,581 (KNOCKING) 421 00:22:00,659 --> 00:22:02,524 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 422 00:22:02,593 --> 00:22:05,227 STEPHEN: You know, first I want to say that I believe in you, 423 00:22:05,296 --> 00:22:08,296 I love you, you're forgiven. 424 00:22:08,365 --> 00:22:11,401 You still have immunity. And I'm here for you. 425 00:22:11,470 --> 00:22:12,704 I'm with you. 426 00:22:15,473 --> 00:22:16,841 (MARGIE SIGHS) 427 00:22:19,004 --> 00:22:22,505 I don't know what happened. 428 00:22:22,574 --> 00:22:25,680 And-- and you're rolling your eyes and throwing your head. 429 00:22:25,749 --> 00:22:29,554 All I know is that Jennifer was not there 430 00:22:30,287 --> 00:22:31,987 when I went downstairs. 431 00:22:32,056 --> 00:22:34,256 It's not what you want to hear. 432 00:22:34,325 --> 00:22:37,129 It's not what you think you need. 433 00:22:37,562 --> 00:22:38,797 But that's... 434 00:22:40,131 --> 00:22:41,361 what I have. 435 00:22:42,461 --> 00:22:45,833 The story, you know, around Jennifer's disappearance 436 00:22:45,902 --> 00:22:50,042 has... has got to make sense. It’s got to be logical and... 437 00:22:51,042 --> 00:22:52,411 reasonable and... 438 00:22:53,377 --> 00:22:54,910 It doesn't make sense. 439 00:22:54,979 --> 00:22:58,348 After all your father has put me through... 440 00:22:58,417 --> 00:23:00,249 STEPHEN: Mm-hmm. 441 00:23:00,318 --> 00:23:02,351 ...why in the world would you think 442 00:23:02,420 --> 00:23:05,553 I would protect him? I have no reason to. 443 00:23:05,622 --> 00:23:08,656 -I-- Mom, I-- You know-- -I have no reason to. 444 00:23:08,725 --> 00:23:12,422 STEPHEN: You know, I think Dad was abusive, emotionally, to you 445 00:23:12,491 --> 00:23:15,667 and I think it's just-- I think it's really complicated. 446 00:23:16,433 --> 00:23:17,800 I've gone back in my mind, 447 00:23:17,869 --> 00:23:21,169 I can't think of anything that happened 448 00:23:21,238 --> 00:23:23,475 that would make me suspicious. 449 00:23:24,008 --> 00:23:24,977 Nothing. 450 00:23:26,010 --> 00:23:26,875 STEPHEN: Just try. 451 00:23:26,944 --> 00:23:29,010 Think of everything you have to gain. 452 00:23:29,079 --> 00:23:30,082 I have your back. 453 00:23:31,249 --> 00:23:33,013 And I always have. 454 00:23:33,082 --> 00:23:35,685 -You know, we-- I-- We-- -I know that, and you've said that, 455 00:23:35,754 --> 00:23:37,519 and it just makes me feel 456 00:23:37,588 --> 00:23:39,922 like you're the judge and the jury, 457 00:23:39,991 --> 00:23:40,889 and you've convicted me 458 00:23:40,958 --> 00:23:42,725 of something that I haven't done, 459 00:23:42,794 --> 00:23:44,659 that I have no knowledge of. 460 00:23:44,728 --> 00:23:47,363 I want you and my grandchildren back in my life. 461 00:23:47,432 --> 00:23:48,764 I want to see you happy. 462 00:23:48,833 --> 00:23:51,133 But I don't have it to give you, Stephen. 463 00:23:51,202 --> 00:23:52,968 I just don't have it. -Okay. 464 00:23:53,037 --> 00:23:54,803 MARGIE: Now, if you want to convict me 465 00:23:54,872 --> 00:23:56,471 and take me to James City County 466 00:23:56,540 --> 00:23:59,478 and throw me in the jail right now, today... 467 00:24:00,845 --> 00:24:03,182 all I have to do is make two phone calls. 468 00:24:04,649 --> 00:24:05,980 -And... -STEPHEN: Don't... 469 00:24:06,049 --> 00:24:08,349 -...sign over any money I have to you. -I don't want it. 470 00:24:08,418 --> 00:24:09,552 You've threatened to take my home. 471 00:24:09,621 --> 00:24:11,753 -Me? -Yes, you did. 472 00:24:11,822 --> 00:24:14,517 -I don't-- I don't need it, Mom. I-- -I know you don't need it. 473 00:24:14,586 --> 00:24:16,926 -I don't need-- -But that's what you threatened to do. 474 00:24:16,995 --> 00:24:19,990 Yes, I did look at-- at suing you and Dad. 475 00:24:20,059 --> 00:24:21,797 But it was not over money. 476 00:24:21,866 --> 00:24:24,033 It was just because I wanted a judge 477 00:24:24,102 --> 00:24:27,335 to say you did it and you're responsible. 478 00:24:27,404 --> 00:24:30,205 Nothing was ever about money. 479 00:24:30,274 --> 00:24:31,539 -I-- -No, I know th-- 480 00:24:31,608 --> 00:24:34,376 what you were doing was not out of needing money 481 00:24:34,445 --> 00:24:38,246 -or wanting money. It was for punishment. -It was just-- No, Mom. 482 00:24:38,315 --> 00:24:39,615 -Yes. -It was-- I just-- 483 00:24:39,684 --> 00:24:41,853 -Excuse me a minute. -You know... 484 00:24:42,987 --> 00:24:45,621 it's not about you, it's about Dad. But... 485 00:24:45,690 --> 00:24:50,695 ♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 486 00:24:52,529 --> 00:24:55,495 It just hurts that you don't believe me. 487 00:24:57,268 --> 00:24:59,238 Just try, you know? 488 00:25:00,137 --> 00:25:01,240 That's all I'm asking. 489 00:25:03,007 --> 00:25:04,039 Okay? 490 00:25:04,108 --> 00:25:08,680 I gotta go. This is just too hard for me right now. Okay? 491 00:25:11,782 --> 00:25:15,285 -MARGIE: I love you. -STEPHEN: I love you too. Okay? 492 00:25:15,354 --> 00:25:17,052 (MARGIE SOBS) 493 00:25:17,121 --> 00:25:19,455 STEPHEN: All right. All right. Mm-hmm. 494 00:25:19,524 --> 00:25:20,889 MARGIE: 495 00:25:20,958 --> 00:25:22,861 STEPHEN: It's okay. It's okay. 496 00:25:24,328 --> 00:25:27,863 -Okay? -MARGIE: (BREATHES SHAKILY) 497 00:25:27,932 --> 00:25:30,465 -STEPHEN: Yes. Okay? -Okay. 498 00:25:30,534 --> 00:25:33,168 STEPHEN: All right. And just try, all right? 499 00:25:33,237 --> 00:25:34,264 I love you lots. 500 00:25:34,333 --> 00:25:35,604 -MARGIE: I love you. -STEPHEN: Okay. 501 00:25:35,673 --> 00:25:38,743 MARGIE: Bye. (SNIFFLES, BREATHES DEEPLY) 502 00:25:48,485 --> 00:25:50,252 MARGIE: I know nothing makes sense. 503 00:25:50,321 --> 00:25:52,891 Nothing has ever made sense. 504 00:25:54,125 --> 00:25:55,824 It's just hard 505 00:25:55,893 --> 00:25:59,031 to not be believed by anyone. 506 00:26:06,337 --> 00:26:07,468 (KNOCKING) 507 00:26:07,537 --> 00:26:09,074 Let's get this over with, folks. 508 00:26:11,375 --> 00:26:12,677 -Hi. -Hey there. Hi. 509 00:26:17,014 --> 00:26:18,881 DONNIE: Stephen just wants to know the truth. 510 00:26:18,950 --> 00:26:21,551 -No matter what, a son-- -"No matter what... 511 00:26:21,620 --> 00:26:22,851 -No-- -...I've got your back." 512 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,120 -No matter-- -"You know, you got immunity." 513 00:26:25,189 --> 00:26:29,128 I am tired of hearing those phrases. 514 00:26:30,794 --> 00:26:33,061 -I want to help Stephen. -DONNIE: Well, good. 515 00:26:33,130 --> 00:26:35,564 MARGIE: But I think he's so far down that rabbit hole 516 00:26:35,633 --> 00:26:37,836 that he's never gonna come out of it. 517 00:26:39,336 --> 00:26:42,704 Why don't we just start off with you bringing us 518 00:26:42,773 --> 00:26:44,709 -back to that night? -(ZIPPER ZIPPING) 519 00:26:45,309 --> 00:26:47,337 She went to her room 520 00:26:47,406 --> 00:26:49,711 and when I got ready to go upstairs, 521 00:26:49,780 --> 00:26:53,382 I knocked on her door and went in, and... 522 00:26:53,451 --> 00:26:54,849 LENA: Describe that to me. 523 00:26:54,918 --> 00:26:59,854 Where was she in her bedroom? What was she wearing? 524 00:26:59,923 --> 00:27:03,395 She was wearing a night shirt that had a panda bear. 525 00:27:04,862 --> 00:27:06,595 Her bed was on that wall 526 00:27:06,664 --> 00:27:09,198 and there was a table beside her bed. 527 00:27:09,267 --> 00:27:13,336 In that "L," that's where she was standing. 528 00:27:13,405 --> 00:27:14,670 And I remember that, 529 00:27:14,739 --> 00:27:18,468 that picture is engraved in my mind. 530 00:27:18,537 --> 00:27:21,180 -I will never lose it. -LENA: Yeah. And? 531 00:27:22,414 --> 00:27:23,682 And... 532 00:27:24,848 --> 00:27:29,817 what happened between the time that I saw that note 533 00:27:29,886 --> 00:27:33,756 and what was said between Ron and I at that time, 534 00:27:33,825 --> 00:27:35,590 I couldn't tell you. 535 00:27:35,659 --> 00:27:37,427 LENA: So, how did you feel when you found 536 00:27:37,496 --> 00:27:38,998 and read that note? 537 00:27:39,531 --> 00:27:40,765 Panic. 538 00:27:44,301 --> 00:27:47,706 I was afraid of her anger... 539 00:27:48,705 --> 00:27:53,476 if we didn't do what we were asked to do. 540 00:27:53,545 --> 00:27:54,843 LENA: Mm-hmm. 541 00:27:54,912 --> 00:27:57,146 MARGIE: Several days later, I noticed 542 00:27:57,215 --> 00:28:00,583 the Venetian blind on that Palladian window 543 00:28:00,652 --> 00:28:03,018 in the front was raised. 544 00:28:03,087 --> 00:28:06,555 Somebody was looking out and had raised the little slat 545 00:28:06,624 --> 00:28:09,825 in the blind, and it hadn't gone down. 546 00:28:09,894 --> 00:28:12,093 LENA: There's a lot of accusations that Ron 547 00:28:12,162 --> 00:28:14,062 -had something to do with it. -MARGIE: Right. 548 00:28:14,131 --> 00:28:16,632 How do you feel about those accusations? 549 00:28:16,701 --> 00:28:18,834 I live in two worlds. 550 00:28:18,903 --> 00:28:20,803 -My child disappeared. -Mm-hmm. 551 00:28:20,872 --> 00:28:22,975 -MARGIE: She left home. -LENA: Mm-hmm. 552 00:28:23,842 --> 00:28:25,044 And then... 553 00:28:26,710 --> 00:28:28,778 the world that her father killed her. 554 00:28:28,847 --> 00:28:30,879 I knew the world 555 00:28:30,948 --> 00:28:33,243 -that my daughter disappeared... -Mm-hmm. 556 00:28:33,312 --> 00:28:34,486 ...that she'd left home... 557 00:28:35,887 --> 00:28:37,189 far longer... 558 00:28:38,655 --> 00:28:42,691 than the world of Ron killing his daughter. 559 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,998 I never suspected that. 560 00:28:47,199 --> 00:28:48,063 Never. 561 00:28:48,132 --> 00:28:49,297 ♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 562 00:28:49,366 --> 00:28:51,667 DONNIE: I do wanna ask you this one question. 563 00:28:51,736 --> 00:28:54,473 -Margie, did you write that note? -No. 564 00:28:56,168 --> 00:28:57,940 No, I did not. 565 00:28:58,009 --> 00:29:00,008 DONNIE: Could you have been put into a position 566 00:29:00,077 --> 00:29:02,712 where Ron said, "I'm gonna go to jail for this 567 00:29:02,781 --> 00:29:04,579 -if you don't help me out." -No, no. 568 00:29:04,648 --> 00:29:09,021 -DONNIE: I don't know. I mean, I'm just-- -No, never, never, never, never. 569 00:29:09,687 --> 00:29:10,886 DONNIE: Whose idea was it 570 00:29:10,955 --> 00:29:13,258 to not call the police right then? 571 00:29:14,625 --> 00:29:16,324 I can't say that it was mine totally, 572 00:29:16,393 --> 00:29:20,829 -but I know I had a voice in... -I got you. 573 00:29:20,898 --> 00:29:23,165 Did you ever see the note and go, 574 00:29:23,234 --> 00:29:26,068 "Ron, who the hell is this father figure?" 575 00:29:26,137 --> 00:29:28,637 -"Do you have any idea?" You never? -No. No. 576 00:29:28,706 --> 00:29:31,273 -DONNIE: You never did that? -No. No. No. 577 00:29:31,342 --> 00:29:33,842 -DONNIE: See, I'm a little-- -I know you're confused and-- 578 00:29:33,911 --> 00:29:36,578 I am confused because I'm trying to think of-- 579 00:29:36,647 --> 00:29:37,980 I'm trying to put my shoes... 580 00:29:38,049 --> 00:29:40,182 -into your shoes. -It fits the bill of not being 581 00:29:40,251 --> 00:29:42,450 -what the normal would do. -DONNIE: Right. 582 00:29:42,519 --> 00:29:46,956 That has been thrown in my face a kazillion times. 583 00:29:47,025 --> 00:29:48,856 DONNIE: And I'm not really sure about this. 584 00:29:48,925 --> 00:29:52,998 LENA: What would you want us to tell Stephen today? 585 00:29:55,299 --> 00:29:57,065 That your mother honestly doesn't know 586 00:29:57,134 --> 00:29:58,904 what happened to your sister. 587 00:30:16,448 --> 00:30:17,986 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 588 00:30:18,055 --> 00:30:21,056 LENA: The thing is, with this case, we don't have 589 00:30:21,125 --> 00:30:24,827 concrete evidence or facts to use in it. 590 00:30:24,896 --> 00:30:26,195 We have a lot of hearsay, 591 00:30:26,264 --> 00:30:27,863 we have things that have been retracted, 592 00:30:27,932 --> 00:30:29,264 we have been told something, then said, 593 00:30:29,333 --> 00:30:32,301 "Well, that wasn't the case." So when we interview people, 594 00:30:32,370 --> 00:30:34,903 the only thing we have to go by is, 595 00:30:34,972 --> 00:30:37,906 and especially for me, is detecting that deception. 596 00:30:37,975 --> 00:30:40,341 She remembers everything up, you know, to the point, 597 00:30:40,410 --> 00:30:42,812 and she cried every time she pictured Jennifer. 598 00:30:42,881 --> 00:30:44,846 Like, "I remember she was standing here, 599 00:30:44,915 --> 00:30:46,881 this is what she was wearing," to the detail, 600 00:30:46,950 --> 00:30:48,918 and she would cry every time she had that last image. 601 00:30:48,987 --> 00:30:50,886 And she was very emphatic with us, saying, 602 00:30:50,955 --> 00:30:52,420 "I did not see her after that." 603 00:30:52,489 --> 00:30:54,156 I believe she's being a hundred percent truthful. 604 00:30:54,225 --> 00:30:56,191 That was the last time she had eyes on Jennifer. 605 00:30:56,260 --> 00:30:58,026 So then, how does my mother fail a polygraph? 606 00:30:58,095 --> 00:31:00,495 And was it a failure, or was it inconclusive? 607 00:31:00,564 --> 00:31:02,692 One thing that I remember off the thing from my mother 608 00:31:02,761 --> 00:31:04,099 was like, you know, deception indicated. 609 00:31:04,168 --> 00:31:06,001 -It wasn't inconclusive. -Oh, right. 610 00:31:06,070 --> 00:31:07,863 LENA: But then you got to go to the specific questions. 611 00:31:07,932 --> 00:31:09,404 -There's so much you need to know. -Yeah, I know. 612 00:31:09,473 --> 00:31:11,039 DONNIE: I thought the handwriting on the note, 613 00:31:11,108 --> 00:31:12,975 that your father was... 614 00:31:13,044 --> 00:31:14,710 -STEPHEN: He was ruled out. -...ruled out, 615 00:31:14,779 --> 00:31:16,978 -but the mother wasn't. -That's right. 616 00:31:17,047 --> 00:31:19,648 And that's why I just feel like she wrote the note. 617 00:31:19,717 --> 00:31:20,815 Right. 618 00:31:20,884 --> 00:31:23,886 My top of the list is still Ron accidentally killed her. 619 00:31:23,955 --> 00:31:26,154 And I would believe that. And that is, you know, 620 00:31:26,223 --> 00:31:27,589 consistent with my father saying, 621 00:31:27,658 --> 00:31:29,992 "Hypothetically, I hit her and she fell and hit her head." 622 00:31:30,061 --> 00:31:31,259 That's my top of the list, really. 623 00:31:31,328 --> 00:31:33,729 Yeah, top of the list, but I do-- 624 00:31:33,798 --> 00:31:35,491 I believe your mom is telling the truth 625 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,432 with not knowing what happened. 626 00:31:37,501 --> 00:31:40,302 DONNIE: I believe your mom doesn't know what happened. 627 00:31:40,371 --> 00:31:44,807 But I... I believe she helped comprise the note. 628 00:31:44,876 --> 00:31:50,082 ♪ (SOFT ELECTRONIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 629 00:32:18,877 --> 00:32:21,143 BUTCH: Stephen has put a lot of stock 630 00:32:21,212 --> 00:32:25,548 in the fact that his mother sat for a polygraph examination, 631 00:32:25,617 --> 00:32:28,149 and it showed deception. 632 00:32:28,218 --> 00:32:30,052 But when you read the summary, 633 00:32:30,121 --> 00:32:32,487 Jennifer had a dental appointment 634 00:32:32,556 --> 00:32:35,657 and Mrs. Pandos could not remember 635 00:32:35,726 --> 00:32:38,093 whether the dental appointment was the tenth or the ninth, 636 00:32:38,162 --> 00:32:40,062 and so she was confused on those dates. 637 00:32:40,131 --> 00:32:44,399 But this disappearance occurred in 1987 638 00:32:44,468 --> 00:32:50,442 and this polygraph examination was done in 2009. 639 00:32:51,509 --> 00:32:54,042 I'm gonna be confused. 640 00:32:54,111 --> 00:32:57,345 Now, part of the problem with a polygraph examination 641 00:32:57,414 --> 00:33:00,115 and one reason that they are notoriously unreliable 642 00:33:00,184 --> 00:33:02,918 and are not admissible evidence, 643 00:33:02,987 --> 00:33:04,854 when there's confusion in the brain, 644 00:33:04,923 --> 00:33:06,388 blood pressure goes up. 645 00:33:06,457 --> 00:33:09,124 And that'll cause the needle to register. 646 00:33:09,193 --> 00:33:12,194 It is merely an indication that there's been a change 647 00:33:12,263 --> 00:33:14,896 in this person's physiological makeup 648 00:33:14,965 --> 00:33:16,268 at that moment. 649 00:33:21,705 --> 00:33:26,074 Take everything in the note that implicates the parents. 650 00:33:26,143 --> 00:33:27,777 And I know that the profiler 651 00:33:27,846 --> 00:33:30,349 who did an analysis of the note... 652 00:33:31,616 --> 00:33:32,981 looked at all of that. 653 00:33:33,050 --> 00:33:35,216 Let me make reference to that. 654 00:33:35,285 --> 00:33:38,423 "Staging a runaway or abduction... 655 00:33:39,858 --> 00:33:42,323 leads me to no other conclusion 656 00:33:42,392 --> 00:33:43,825 than the writer of the note either perpetuated..." 657 00:33:43,894 --> 00:33:45,660 STEPHEN: "...the writer of the note either perpetrated 658 00:33:45,729 --> 00:33:50,065 or assisted in, before or after, the crime of abduction 659 00:33:50,134 --> 00:33:52,401 and, or murder of Jennifer Pandos." 660 00:33:52,470 --> 00:33:54,203 KENNETH MORRIS: "Based on this premise, 661 00:33:54,272 --> 00:33:57,205 your note is most likely written by someone 662 00:33:57,274 --> 00:34:00,679 who would immediately come under scrutiny by the police." 663 00:34:08,119 --> 00:34:10,122 What else can I tell ya? (CHUCKLES) 664 00:34:10,755 --> 00:34:12,287 It's a staged crime scene. 665 00:34:12,356 --> 00:34:15,156 This person who wrote the note is familiar with Jennifer 666 00:34:15,225 --> 00:34:16,892 and her routine, and her schedule, 667 00:34:16,961 --> 00:34:18,660 and things that were important to her. 668 00:34:18,729 --> 00:34:19,828 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 669 00:34:19,897 --> 00:34:21,733 INTERVIEWER: 670 00:34:32,342 --> 00:34:34,009 Can you talk a little bit about that in general? 671 00:34:34,078 --> 00:34:35,810 Yeah, I can talk about that in general. 672 00:34:35,879 --> 00:34:40,015 From a profiling standpoint, if I were to create a profile, 673 00:34:40,084 --> 00:34:42,117 say, if I were to look at a crime scene 674 00:34:42,186 --> 00:34:46,055 and come up with a profile of the unknown offender, 675 00:34:46,124 --> 00:34:47,588 I would need a lot of information. 676 00:34:47,657 --> 00:34:51,359 I don't want to know anything at all about any suspects 677 00:34:51,428 --> 00:34:53,594 because that's gonna bias my opinion. 678 00:34:53,663 --> 00:34:56,765 What I-- What I wrote there is based on what's written. 679 00:34:56,834 --> 00:35:00,272 Nothing else. You know, again, it's written in a vacuum. 680 00:35:00,839 --> 00:35:02,241 INTERVIEWER: 681 00:35:04,776 --> 00:35:07,179 (KENNETH BREATHES DEEPLY) 682 00:35:07,912 --> 00:35:08,977 Yeah. 683 00:35:09,046 --> 00:35:10,282 INTERVIEWER: 684 00:35:18,056 --> 00:35:19,454 Right. 685 00:35:19,523 --> 00:35:21,826 -INTERVIEWER 1: -INTERVIEWER 2: 686 00:35:23,294 --> 00:35:26,061 KENNETH: "If your note contains personal information, 687 00:35:26,130 --> 00:35:27,596 your most plausible offender 688 00:35:27,665 --> 00:35:30,635 would be one or both of the parents." 689 00:35:31,135 --> 00:35:32,700 Yeah, at the time 690 00:35:32,769 --> 00:35:35,699 that I was called in to the investigation, 691 00:35:35,768 --> 00:35:40,075 they were the only suspects. 692 00:35:40,144 --> 00:35:42,077 The main reason why I pointed to them 693 00:35:42,146 --> 00:35:44,512 was because there was no one else about. 694 00:35:44,581 --> 00:35:45,947 I guess what I should've written, 695 00:35:46,016 --> 00:35:52,287 in hindsight-- hindsight now is, "The perpetrator was someone 696 00:35:52,356 --> 00:35:55,223 who had a very close relationship to Jennifer." 697 00:35:55,292 --> 00:35:57,960 And left it somewhat ambiguous like that. 698 00:35:58,029 --> 00:35:59,327 JAKE: Think it's wrong. Was it this? 699 00:35:59,396 --> 00:36:00,929 KENNETH: It was the statement I made, right? 700 00:36:00,998 --> 00:36:04,366 -Is that what you were reading here? -It... Yeah, it was that margin 701 00:36:04,435 --> 00:36:07,235 that the parents were probably the offenders. 702 00:36:07,304 --> 00:36:08,670 Well, I mean, what you wrote is, 703 00:36:08,739 --> 00:36:12,607 "If your note was fabricated to misdirect the investigation." 704 00:36:12,676 --> 00:36:14,809 We don't still know that it's fabricated. 705 00:36:14,878 --> 00:36:18,514 -Right. -Is there a possibility that Jennifer was there 706 00:36:18,583 --> 00:36:20,348 when the note was being written? 707 00:36:20,417 --> 00:36:22,250 -KENNETH: It-- It's possible-- -I mean, 708 00:36:22,319 --> 00:36:25,320 it's still a possibility... 709 00:36:25,389 --> 00:36:26,688 And she's provided the information. 710 00:36:26,757 --> 00:36:29,690 ...that she left that night on her own, 711 00:36:29,759 --> 00:36:32,061 thinking it was only gonna be for a few days 712 00:36:32,130 --> 00:36:34,195 and something took place. 713 00:36:34,264 --> 00:36:36,098 ♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 714 00:36:36,167 --> 00:36:37,633 STEPHEN: "Your most plausible offender 715 00:36:37,702 --> 00:36:40,368 would be one or both of the parents." 716 00:36:40,437 --> 00:36:42,908 You know, I've read this dozens of times and it's... 717 00:36:43,874 --> 00:36:44,843 haunting. 718 00:36:48,546 --> 00:36:52,447 He doesn't come out and say that we wrote the note, 719 00:36:52,516 --> 00:36:54,519 but that's his implication. 720 00:36:55,352 --> 00:36:57,418 And it didn't happen. 721 00:36:57,487 --> 00:37:00,255 I can understand how Stephen, in reading this, 722 00:37:00,324 --> 00:37:03,395 would feel the way he does towards me but... 723 00:37:04,394 --> 00:37:06,729 these people don't know me. 724 00:37:06,798 --> 00:37:08,463 KENNETH: The mistake that Stephen made 725 00:37:08,532 --> 00:37:11,733 is he's keyed in on his parents. 726 00:37:11,802 --> 00:37:14,837 And then, Jennifer disappears with this cockamamie letter, 727 00:37:14,906 --> 00:37:16,605 well, then you have a profiler saying, 728 00:37:16,674 --> 00:37:18,773 "Well, it's someone close to Jennifer who wrote it, 729 00:37:18,842 --> 00:37:20,937 and there's no one else, so it's probably the parents," 730 00:37:21,006 --> 00:37:23,345 so he-- he just latched onto that. 731 00:37:23,414 --> 00:37:25,581 Well, he's painted himself into a corner 'cause now... 732 00:37:25,650 --> 00:37:28,350 (STAMMERS) 733 00:37:28,419 --> 00:37:30,720 I guess he hates his parents and his parents hate him. 734 00:37:30,789 --> 00:37:31,790 I don't know. 735 00:37:39,063 --> 00:37:40,399 Can I keep this one? 736 00:37:41,599 --> 00:37:43,465 I just like the picture of my mom. 737 00:37:43,534 --> 00:37:45,233 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 738 00:37:45,302 --> 00:37:46,939 You know, she was so young. 739 00:37:50,875 --> 00:37:52,407 You know, baby me. 740 00:37:52,476 --> 00:37:53,979 But I like the picture of my mom. 741 00:38:13,330 --> 00:38:15,363 DONNIE: Evidently, there's a new lead 742 00:38:15,432 --> 00:38:17,766 that the police are following. 743 00:38:17,835 --> 00:38:21,903 The investigator that did the analysis, 744 00:38:21,972 --> 00:38:26,408 he's back and a little bit off the direction of the parents, 745 00:38:26,477 --> 00:38:29,078 -maybe he knows something that we don't know. -Okay. 746 00:38:29,147 --> 00:38:32,776 Yeah, I'd like to know. I wonder what is making him back off. 747 00:38:32,845 --> 00:38:35,183 Can we rule suicide out? 748 00:38:35,252 --> 00:38:36,918 LENA: But her body would've been found. 749 00:38:36,987 --> 00:38:39,621 What, is she gonna trek across the United States 750 00:38:39,690 --> 00:38:41,423 -to commit suicide? -DONNIE: Yeah, true. 751 00:38:41,492 --> 00:38:44,994 Yeah. We would expect her to turn up somewhere. 752 00:38:45,063 --> 00:38:46,161 Take this scenario, 753 00:38:46,230 --> 00:38:47,629 tell me what you think. 754 00:38:47,698 --> 00:38:49,531 DONNIE: Dad gets into it with her. 755 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,334 and then she says, "That's it, I've had enough of this crap." 756 00:38:52,403 --> 00:38:54,003 -And she calls somebody. -LENA: Mm-hmm. 757 00:38:54,072 --> 00:38:55,170 Hey, you have to come get me. 758 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,106 I-- I can't stay here anymore. 759 00:38:57,175 --> 00:39:00,508 DONNIE: They have to somehow get past the security gate. 760 00:39:00,577 --> 00:39:02,411 LENA: And so, a person couldn't come through and say, 761 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:03,779 "Hey, I'm here to see Jennifer Pandos. 762 00:39:03,848 --> 00:39:05,313 She lives at blah, blah, blah. Here's a--" 763 00:39:05,382 --> 00:39:06,616 DONNIE: They'd have to call the house. 764 00:39:06,685 --> 00:39:07,716 -Really? Wow. -DONNIE: Yes. 765 00:39:07,785 --> 00:39:08,984 -LENA: What about this? -(CLEARS THROAT) 766 00:39:09,053 --> 00:39:12,554 Friend parks his car outside the community, 767 00:39:12,623 --> 00:39:15,690 walks, sneaks through the woods, or whatever, walks to the house, 768 00:39:15,759 --> 00:39:18,426 they walk through the community to his car outside the community 769 00:39:18,495 --> 00:39:20,162 so the car never has to come through that gate. 770 00:39:20,231 --> 00:39:22,998 DONNIE: But the location of the Pandos residence 771 00:39:23,067 --> 00:39:26,402 from the gate is, I'm just gonna guess, 772 00:39:26,471 --> 00:39:27,770 over a mile. 773 00:39:27,839 --> 00:39:29,704 LENA: What if Jennifer made the phone call? 774 00:39:29,773 --> 00:39:31,774 Remember, she used to babysit for that guy, right? 775 00:39:31,843 --> 00:39:33,474 -Yeah. Mm-hmm. -Called someone and said, 776 00:39:33,543 --> 00:39:34,943 "In twenty minutes or half an hour, 777 00:39:35,012 --> 00:39:37,980 meet me at the 7-Eleven or wherever, I'll be there. 778 00:39:38,049 --> 00:39:39,214 Pick me up, I'm done." 779 00:39:39,283 --> 00:39:40,415 Then leaves the house, 780 00:39:40,484 --> 00:39:42,384 walks by herself through the path 781 00:39:42,453 --> 00:39:44,052 and meets whoever's picking her up. 782 00:39:44,121 --> 00:39:45,790 DONNIE: What about the note? 783 00:39:46,723 --> 00:39:48,924 -(SIGHS) -Jennifer didn't write the note. 784 00:39:48,993 --> 00:39:51,093 The note's written out of a notebook 785 00:39:51,162 --> 00:39:52,962 that's there at the scene. 786 00:39:53,031 --> 00:39:54,863 See, this is why the note 787 00:39:54,932 --> 00:39:57,566 gets me in almost every scenario. 788 00:39:57,635 --> 00:40:01,737 Just say this scenario. Someone parks, 789 00:40:01,806 --> 00:40:04,139 walks through the woods to the house 790 00:40:04,208 --> 00:40:06,341 to come to get her, okay? 791 00:40:06,410 --> 00:40:08,376 -LENA: Or she just meets him. -I-- 792 00:40:08,445 --> 00:40:10,615 Yeah, but the note is there. 793 00:40:26,464 --> 00:40:28,901 (PHONE LINE RINGING) 794 00:40:30,968 --> 00:40:32,234 JAKE: (OVER PHONE) Investigator Rice. 795 00:40:32,303 --> 00:40:33,968 -Hey, Jake. Stephen Pandos. -♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 796 00:40:34,037 --> 00:40:38,073 I was just following up to see if there was any kind of update 797 00:40:38,142 --> 00:40:40,909 -as to what you were doing? -JAKE: Not at this time. 798 00:40:40,978 --> 00:40:43,545 -You know, we're still working... -Yup. 799 00:40:43,614 --> 00:40:44,780 JAKE: ...with what we're working on, 800 00:40:44,849 --> 00:40:46,518 but there's nothing that I can... 801 00:40:47,919 --> 00:40:50,855 -divulge or give out. -Okay. 802 00:40:51,889 --> 00:40:53,192 JAKE: So, no... 803 00:41:00,499 --> 00:41:02,701 INTERVIEWER: 804 00:41:03,468 --> 00:41:05,767 Having a wide open, 805 00:41:05,836 --> 00:41:07,503 "Here's every step that I'm doing," 806 00:41:07,572 --> 00:41:09,138 I just can't do it. 807 00:41:09,207 --> 00:41:12,074 I've let him know everything that's going on, 808 00:41:12,143 --> 00:41:13,841 it's 'cause it's an open investigation, 809 00:41:13,910 --> 00:41:19,014 and he's running a... his own side investigation. 810 00:41:19,083 --> 00:41:21,516 And that's the hard part for me. I mean, yeah, he calls 811 00:41:21,585 --> 00:41:24,286 but until I have something that's in concrete, 812 00:41:24,355 --> 00:41:25,821 that I can give him the information, 813 00:41:25,890 --> 00:41:29,291 right now, I gotta keep cards to myself. 814 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,429 I just hope I catch who it is. That's what I'm after. 815 00:41:33,498 --> 00:41:34,829 For me to sit here and say 816 00:41:34,898 --> 00:41:38,962 that I have no suspicions on the parents would be a lie. 817 00:41:39,031 --> 00:41:40,772 I still have suspicions. 818 00:41:41,706 --> 00:41:43,299 There is still some things 819 00:41:43,368 --> 00:41:45,740 that you're like, "Why'd this happen?" 820 00:41:45,809 --> 00:41:50,646 If I had to personally describe this case, 821 00:41:50,715 --> 00:41:52,882 it's just like a roller coaster. 822 00:41:52,951 --> 00:41:54,984 That's the way it's went over these years. 823 00:41:55,053 --> 00:41:57,386 We've had times where we were down, 824 00:41:57,455 --> 00:41:59,587 there's nothing, and then, 825 00:41:59,656 --> 00:42:02,290 we have something to work that file. 826 00:42:02,359 --> 00:42:07,262 Now we start to get somewhere. And now, it's got other suspects 827 00:42:07,331 --> 00:42:09,698 so maybe we need to do a loop back. 828 00:42:09,767 --> 00:42:16,175 ♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 829 00:42:30,787 --> 00:42:32,054 INTERVIEWER: So if the police are looking 830 00:42:32,123 --> 00:42:35,727 at other suspects now, who do you think that would be? 831 00:42:37,161 --> 00:42:41,330 The only one whose name I've heard before was, um... 832 00:42:41,399 --> 00:42:44,934 a guy, last name "Hendrix," I can't remember his first name. 833 00:42:45,003 --> 00:42:46,202 Kerry, maybe... 834 00:42:46,271 --> 00:42:47,639 Um... 835 00:42:49,173 --> 00:42:51,606 who apparently, my sister and some of her friends 836 00:42:51,675 --> 00:42:54,346 used to babysit for. I don't know him. 837 00:42:55,714 --> 00:42:57,049 So I have no idea. 838 00:42:59,483 --> 00:43:02,484 WENDI: In 2006, I was given information 839 00:43:02,553 --> 00:43:04,853 that Jennifer and another friend had gone 840 00:43:04,922 --> 00:43:09,624 to a adult male's home to babysit for him. 841 00:43:09,693 --> 00:43:12,697 And he would often provide them with alcohol. 842 00:43:13,797 --> 00:43:17,065 As I started to look into that individual's history, 843 00:43:17,134 --> 00:43:19,835 I found that he had been convicted 844 00:43:19,904 --> 00:43:24,573 of kidnapping, and attempted kidnapping. 845 00:43:24,642 --> 00:43:26,841 I had a few locations on him. 846 00:43:26,910 --> 00:43:29,745 I had gone to the residence that I believed he was at 847 00:43:29,814 --> 00:43:31,179 and tried to locate him there, 848 00:43:31,248 --> 00:43:34,417 but I was never able to speak with him directly. 849 00:43:34,486 --> 00:43:36,788 (CRICKETS CHIRPING) 850 00:43:46,965 --> 00:43:49,097 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 851 00:43:49,166 --> 00:43:52,100 DONNIE: Kerry Hendrix was a older man. 852 00:43:52,169 --> 00:43:57,238 There was mention in the note of a father-like figure. 853 00:43:57,307 --> 00:43:59,942 He was arrested for attempted abduction 854 00:44:00,011 --> 00:44:03,539 of a female on a college campus there in Williamsburg. 855 00:44:03,608 --> 00:44:06,649 A peer said it was a sexual assault attempt. 856 00:44:06,718 --> 00:44:08,117 He would be somebody 857 00:44:08,186 --> 00:44:09,885 that you would definitely have to look at 858 00:44:09,954 --> 00:44:11,856 as a possible suspect. 859 00:44:14,892 --> 00:44:16,124 ROBIN: (OVER PHONE) This is Robin. 860 00:44:16,193 --> 00:44:18,794 Hey, Robin. My name's Donnie Norrell. 861 00:44:18,863 --> 00:44:22,831 We're talking about anything you can remember 862 00:44:22,900 --> 00:44:24,800 in reference to Kerry Hendrix. 863 00:44:24,869 --> 00:44:26,201 -And, um... -ROBIN: Yes. 864 00:44:26,270 --> 00:44:28,236 ...back in 1990. 865 00:44:28,305 --> 00:44:29,942 ROBIN: (CLICKS TONGUE) 866 00:44:46,024 --> 00:44:47,426 -DONNIE: Mm-hmm. -ROBIN: 867 00:45:06,711 --> 00:45:09,510 -DONNIE: Yeah. -ROBIN: 868 00:45:09,579 --> 00:45:12,247 -DONNIE: Well, thanks again, I appreciate it. -ROBIN: All right, no problem. 869 00:45:12,316 --> 00:45:14,049 -All right, take care. -ROBIN: Thanks. 870 00:45:14,118 --> 00:45:15,584 -Bye-bye. -All right. Bye. 871 00:45:15,653 --> 00:45:17,853 ♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 872 00:45:17,922 --> 00:45:19,654 DONNIE: He would be somebody 873 00:45:19,723 --> 00:45:21,356 that you would definitely have to look at 874 00:45:21,425 --> 00:45:22,990 as a possible suspect. 875 00:45:23,059 --> 00:45:26,962 Is he the father-like figure that she was talking about? 876 00:45:27,031 --> 00:45:28,964 Could he have written the note? 877 00:45:29,033 --> 00:45:31,904 All of those things are possible. 878 00:45:33,771 --> 00:45:36,204 (PHONE LINE RINGING) 879 00:45:36,273 --> 00:45:37,172 FILMMAKER: Hello? 880 00:45:37,241 --> 00:45:38,777 STEPHEN: (OVER PHONE) Hey there. 881 00:46:23,388 --> 00:46:24,423 FILMMAKER: 882 00:46:25,557 --> 00:46:27,026 STEPHEN: 883 00:46:34,665 --> 00:46:36,468 FILMMAKER: 884 00:47:06,931 --> 00:47:08,663 INTERVIEWER: Could we interview you? 885 00:47:08,732 --> 00:47:10,532 KERRY HENDRIX: Yeah, it's been like, a long time though. 886 00:47:10,601 --> 00:47:12,267 INTERVIEWER: That's okay. This was the last place 887 00:47:12,336 --> 00:47:14,903 that we had for you, and so we took a chance 888 00:47:14,972 --> 00:47:16,572 -and drove up here. -(KERRY SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) 889 00:47:16,641 --> 00:47:18,406 (LAUGHS) 890 00:47:18,475 --> 00:47:24,513 INTERVIEWER: Hmm. So, tell me how you know Jennifer Pandos? 891 00:47:24,582 --> 00:47:26,948 -♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ -(COUGHS) It seems to me, 892 00:47:27,017 --> 00:47:29,117 I was newly divorced, and I had won custody 893 00:47:29,186 --> 00:47:31,186 of my then one-year-old son. 894 00:47:31,255 --> 00:47:33,655 I'm thinking that I saw an advertisement somewhere, 895 00:47:33,724 --> 00:47:34,823 like a teenager 896 00:47:34,892 --> 00:47:37,325 looking to babysit, make money on the side. 897 00:47:37,394 --> 00:47:40,361 INTERVIEWER: And did you ever suspect that the cops thought 898 00:47:40,430 --> 00:47:44,133 that you may be somebody who was harboring her? 899 00:47:44,202 --> 00:47:47,002 Yeah, yeah. I believed that about her father and the police 900 00:47:47,071 --> 00:47:51,273 the whole time. I mean, I was their prime interest. 901 00:47:51,342 --> 00:47:52,507 Um... 902 00:47:52,576 --> 00:47:55,010 And, you know-- And I could understand if she was-- 903 00:47:55,079 --> 00:47:57,378 If I was one of the few people in her life 904 00:47:57,447 --> 00:48:02,017 that was outside the family, I'd be... I'd be looking that way too. 905 00:48:02,086 --> 00:48:03,752 INTERVIEWER: Well we've been following every... 906 00:48:03,821 --> 00:48:05,721 -Yeah. (COUGHS) -...potential lead 907 00:48:05,790 --> 00:48:07,055 -or anybody that had... -Hmm. 908 00:48:07,124 --> 00:48:08,656 ...any interactions with her at all, we've been... 909 00:48:08,725 --> 00:48:11,893 You know, in Williamsburg-- Williamsburg's a small town 910 00:48:11,962 --> 00:48:13,195 and I had a troubled childhood, 911 00:48:13,264 --> 00:48:14,729 like I said, I was in trouble a lot. 912 00:48:14,798 --> 00:48:18,862 And so they always had me and my little circle of friends 913 00:48:18,931 --> 00:48:20,701 as number one suspects in anything that happened 914 00:48:20,770 --> 00:48:24,039 in that town. These girls were getting raped in college 915 00:48:24,108 --> 00:48:27,176 and we were suspects. And we, you know, won the case. 916 00:48:27,245 --> 00:48:29,712 And so, you know, they build this image 917 00:48:29,781 --> 00:48:31,483 of you based on their... 918 00:48:32,749 --> 00:48:35,717 their suspicions and it sticks with you. 919 00:48:35,786 --> 00:48:36,918 INTERVIEWER: Yeah, we did see... 920 00:48:36,987 --> 00:48:38,186 -Yeah. (COUGHS) -...on your record 921 00:48:38,255 --> 00:48:43,291 that you had been convicted of attempted abduction 922 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,393 -and they-- What was that about? -Abduction, yeah. 923 00:48:45,462 --> 00:48:47,597 And see they thought that was a rape attempt. 924 00:48:47,666 --> 00:48:48,630 It was attempted robbery. 925 00:48:48,699 --> 00:48:51,266 (STAMMERS) I was addicted to cocaine at the time 926 00:48:51,335 --> 00:48:54,804 and I tried to snatch a purse which wound up being a backpack. 927 00:48:54,873 --> 00:48:56,939 And, you know, because she thought 928 00:48:57,008 --> 00:48:59,040 that I was trying to push her in the car, 929 00:48:59,109 --> 00:49:01,176 they thought that I was trying to abduct her. 930 00:49:01,245 --> 00:49:03,111 There was no evidence of no abduction. 931 00:49:03,180 --> 00:49:04,980 INTERVIEWER: Cori, who's the girl 932 00:49:05,049 --> 00:49:07,415 that came over to your house with Jennifer, 933 00:49:07,484 --> 00:49:09,485 she said that you actually gave them alcohol. 934 00:49:09,554 --> 00:49:11,119 No. No. 935 00:49:11,188 --> 00:49:15,056 No. (CHUCKLES) I would never do it. Never do it. 936 00:49:15,125 --> 00:49:16,726 INTERVIEWER: Would you have considered yourself 937 00:49:16,795 --> 00:49:18,828 a father figure for Jennifer at all? 938 00:49:18,897 --> 00:49:20,596 I probably was at the time because, 939 00:49:20,665 --> 00:49:22,030 you know, I was a father. 940 00:49:22,099 --> 00:49:23,565 And I mean, that's why she was there. 941 00:49:23,634 --> 00:49:24,733 To babysit my son. 942 00:49:24,802 --> 00:49:28,637 And she was telling me some stuff about her family life 943 00:49:28,706 --> 00:49:30,538 where she was having problems. 944 00:49:30,607 --> 00:49:32,274 She didn't really say what the problems were, 945 00:49:32,343 --> 00:49:33,942 she just said she didn't feel comfortable there 946 00:49:34,011 --> 00:49:36,045 and she was looking-- Didn't know what to do. 947 00:49:36,114 --> 00:49:38,113 And she was thinking about running away. 948 00:49:38,182 --> 00:49:39,849 And I cautioned her against that. 949 00:49:39,918 --> 00:49:41,945 And then she just-- 950 00:49:42,014 --> 00:49:44,953 Never came around anymore. And her father called 951 00:49:45,022 --> 00:49:46,488 and thought that she was staying over there. 952 00:49:46,557 --> 00:49:48,924 So that's when I kinda learned that she went missing. 953 00:49:48,993 --> 00:49:51,193 And I kinda figured that she ran away, 954 00:49:51,262 --> 00:49:53,365 that's what she had been talking about. 955 00:50:00,472 --> 00:50:02,207 INTERVIEWER: 956 00:50:03,140 --> 00:50:04,373 KERRY: Well, he called first. 957 00:50:04,442 --> 00:50:06,375 And I said, "You know, if you wanna come by and look, 958 00:50:06,444 --> 00:50:08,376 look for yourself, that's fine, but she's not here." 959 00:50:08,445 --> 00:50:11,279 And he did. He seemed like a nice-looking guy, 960 00:50:11,348 --> 00:50:13,014 and I think he was just there very briefly. 961 00:50:13,083 --> 00:50:17,119 But he was very cold. And, um... 962 00:50:17,188 --> 00:50:19,788 like "push away" kind of personality, 963 00:50:19,857 --> 00:50:21,023 at least with me. 964 00:50:21,092 --> 00:50:23,158 And I-- I understand why he felt like 965 00:50:23,227 --> 00:50:27,429 I was harboring a girl there or something. But, uh, um... 966 00:50:27,498 --> 00:50:30,126 seemed like the police had-- they came by or at least called, 967 00:50:30,195 --> 00:50:32,134 I can't remember. I don't think they came by, they called. 968 00:50:32,203 --> 00:50:34,703 And I told them the same thing. And... 969 00:50:34,772 --> 00:50:36,872 that you're more than welcome to come by and look anytime. 970 00:50:36,941 --> 00:50:39,144 (CHUCKLES) She's not here, you know? 971 00:50:39,844 --> 00:50:42,243 What you doing? (CHUCKLES) 972 00:50:42,312 --> 00:50:48,420 ♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 973 00:50:58,429 --> 00:51:00,029 JAKE: Hey, Andrew. This is Jake. 974 00:51:00,098 --> 00:51:01,229 I'm just making sure 975 00:51:01,298 --> 00:51:03,032 that you got that stuff that I sent you. 976 00:51:03,101 --> 00:51:05,266 Reference, "Pandos." 977 00:51:05,335 --> 00:51:09,674 Right. I mean, that's my belief and that he had more to do 978 00:51:10,307 --> 00:51:12,669 than what he's telling us. 979 00:51:12,738 --> 00:51:14,109 Yeah, I mean, that's my thing. 980 00:51:14,178 --> 00:51:17,012 He might be having us on to a different location. 981 00:51:17,081 --> 00:51:19,551 Okay. So we're going down the right road. 982 00:51:20,051 --> 00:51:22,384 All right, bye. 983 00:51:22,453 --> 00:51:26,155 I mean, right now, I'm waiting on lab results to come back. 984 00:51:26,224 --> 00:51:27,559 I will say that. 985 00:51:30,394 --> 00:51:34,830 'Cause I don't want anyone to know who might be 986 00:51:34,899 --> 00:51:36,498 or might not be on the radar. 987 00:51:36,567 --> 00:51:39,200 If they get tipped off that we're coming, 988 00:51:39,269 --> 00:51:42,304 it can prepare them for what they wanna tell us. 989 00:51:42,373 --> 00:51:46,875 So I would rather... me know and that's it. 990 00:51:46,944 --> 00:51:49,444 And me make that surprise visit. 991 00:51:49,513 --> 00:51:51,179 INTERVIEWER: Are you hopeful still? 992 00:51:51,248 --> 00:51:52,617 I'm very hopeful. 993 00:52:41,098 --> 00:52:42,567 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪