1 00:00:12,783 --> 00:00:15,654 (BUS ENGINE RUMBLING) 2 00:00:23,628 --> 00:00:26,294 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 3 00:00:26,363 --> 00:00:27,963 MARGIE PANDOS: I didn't get your name. 4 00:00:28,032 --> 00:00:30,065 Um, Michael. You can call me Michael. 5 00:00:30,134 --> 00:00:32,104 My name is Doctor Michael Gellis. 6 00:00:35,405 --> 00:00:38,110 -We're just gonna take our time. -Okay. 7 00:00:45,949 --> 00:00:48,820 MICHAEL GELLIS: So, um, let's do the first phase, okay? 8 00:01:26,824 --> 00:01:28,127 Put that drink down. 9 00:01:29,528 --> 00:01:30,562 Go on. 10 00:01:36,968 --> 00:01:38,403 Yeah. It was... 11 00:01:47,378 --> 00:01:51,312 -MARGIE: -MICHAEL: All right. 12 00:01:51,381 --> 00:01:54,316 -MICHAEL: -MARGIE: Yeah. 13 00:01:54,385 --> 00:01:55,620 -MICHAEL: Good. -MARGIE: And... 14 00:02:13,004 --> 00:02:15,170 MICHAEL: 15 00:02:15,239 --> 00:02:16,909 What's happening? 16 00:02:18,477 --> 00:02:19,608 MICHAEL: 17 00:02:19,677 --> 00:02:21,109 MARGIE: 18 00:02:21,178 --> 00:02:23,215 ♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 19 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:28,887 MICHAEL: 20 00:02:29,888 --> 00:02:35,419 MARGIE: 21 00:02:35,488 --> 00:02:37,196 (SNIFFING) 22 00:02:50,908 --> 00:02:54,143 (CLOCK TICKING) 23 00:02:54,212 --> 00:02:56,815 MARGIE: 24 00:03:03,921 --> 00:03:05,457 (CLOCK TICKING) 25 00:03:20,171 --> 00:03:21,473 (SNIFFS) 26 00:03:25,309 --> 00:03:26,545 (CLOCK TICKING) 27 00:03:44,328 --> 00:03:46,565 ♪ (MUSIC INTENSIFIES) ♪ 28 00:03:58,242 --> 00:04:00,675 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 29 00:04:00,744 --> 00:04:03,682 -♪ (VIOLIN PLAYING IN BACKGROUND) ♪ -Will you please stand? 30 00:04:08,787 --> 00:04:11,220 Stephen and Karen share their joy 31 00:04:11,289 --> 00:04:12,921 and celebrate their love. 32 00:04:12,990 --> 00:04:14,123 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 33 00:04:14,192 --> 00:04:18,059 WEDDING OFFICIANT: Marriage is a gift of God in creation, 34 00:04:18,128 --> 00:04:22,231 through which husband and wife may know the grace of God. 35 00:04:22,300 --> 00:04:24,098 It is given that as man and woman... 36 00:04:24,167 --> 00:04:26,801 -Stephen and his girls. -WEDDING OFFICIANT: ...grow together in love and trust, 37 00:04:26,870 --> 00:04:30,605 they shall be united with one another in heart, 38 00:04:30,674 --> 00:04:34,076 body and mind as Christ is united 39 00:04:34,145 --> 00:04:35,411 -with his bride... -CYNTHIA HILL: 40 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,579 I'm glad you did, too. 41 00:04:37,648 --> 00:04:39,784 ♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 42 00:04:50,661 --> 00:04:53,661 STEPHEN PANDOS: Yeah, I'm still hanging out in ambiguity. 43 00:04:53,730 --> 00:04:56,031 I mean, clearly, I think law enforcement knows 44 00:04:56,100 --> 00:04:57,365 what this has done 45 00:04:57,434 --> 00:05:00,202 to my relationship with my mother. 46 00:05:00,271 --> 00:05:03,205 And I think if they had information 47 00:05:03,274 --> 00:05:07,076 that would rule out my mother's involvement in any way, 48 00:05:07,145 --> 00:05:08,813 that they should share that with me. 49 00:05:12,550 --> 00:05:15,383 RON PANDOS: If James City County has information, 50 00:05:15,452 --> 00:05:17,219 just tell me. Just tell me upfront. 51 00:05:17,288 --> 00:05:18,754 Tell Margie upfront. 52 00:05:18,823 --> 00:05:21,890 You know, don't keep a family wondering. 53 00:05:21,959 --> 00:05:24,627 'Cause all you're doing is devastating a family 54 00:05:24,696 --> 00:05:26,661 and tearing a family apart. 55 00:05:26,730 --> 00:05:28,763 I just think they're afraid to say, "Yeah, hey, 56 00:05:28,832 --> 00:05:31,332 we blew this case from the very beginning." 57 00:05:31,401 --> 00:05:33,969 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 58 00:05:34,038 --> 00:05:35,574 (DIAL TONE RINGING) 59 00:05:38,108 --> 00:05:40,136 STEPHEN: Hey, Jake. Stephen. 60 00:05:40,205 --> 00:05:41,844 -JAKE RICE: Yes. -STEPHEN: How are you? 61 00:05:41,913 --> 00:05:43,245 JAKE: All right. 62 00:05:43,314 --> 00:05:45,614 STEPHEN: Good. Hey, a quick question. 63 00:05:45,683 --> 00:05:47,215 I'm trying to figure out... 64 00:05:47,284 --> 00:05:51,353 Um, do you guys believe that my mother's 65 00:05:51,422 --> 00:05:53,892 tellin' the truth about what she knows? 66 00:05:55,294 --> 00:05:59,698 JAKE: 67 00:06:03,133 --> 00:06:08,473 -Right. -JAKE: 68 00:06:22,619 --> 00:06:26,754 Right. And is this like forensic stuff? 69 00:06:26,823 --> 00:06:30,258 Is it handwriting? Can you give me some idea 70 00:06:30,327 --> 00:06:31,560 -as to what-- -JAKE: 71 00:06:31,629 --> 00:06:32,828 It's more handwriting stuff? 72 00:06:32,897 --> 00:06:34,697 JAKE: (CHATTERS INDISTINCTLY) All right. 73 00:06:34,766 --> 00:06:36,465 Okay. All right. Talk to you soon, Jake. 74 00:06:36,534 --> 00:06:37,702 See ya. Bye. 75 00:06:41,139 --> 00:06:42,738 (INSECTS CHIRPING) 76 00:06:42,807 --> 00:06:45,544 ♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 77 00:06:48,579 --> 00:06:51,279 STEPHEN: So, I called Jake Rice at the police department. 78 00:06:51,348 --> 00:06:53,281 He said that they had sent some things 79 00:06:53,350 --> 00:06:55,551 to the lab, some handwriting. 80 00:06:55,620 --> 00:06:56,719 -Um-- -But he hasn't told you 81 00:06:56,788 --> 00:06:59,521 -what's in there yet. -He has not. 82 00:06:59,590 --> 00:07:01,789 -Well, I hope that... -So... 83 00:07:01,858 --> 00:07:04,894 ...they don't just let you sit there and think and think 84 00:07:04,963 --> 00:07:07,562 and think, that they do somewhat give you 85 00:07:07,631 --> 00:07:09,601 some knowledge of what's going on. 86 00:07:13,872 --> 00:07:14,769 This is just 87 00:07:14,838 --> 00:07:17,372 my mother's handwriting analysis that was done 88 00:07:17,441 --> 00:07:19,844 by the Department of Forensic Science. 89 00:07:24,283 --> 00:07:26,581 CYNTHIA: 90 00:07:26,650 --> 00:07:29,751 STEPHEN: Handwriting analysis of my father, 91 00:07:29,820 --> 00:07:31,820 they ruled him out as the writer of the note. 92 00:07:31,889 --> 00:07:35,124 But it was inconclusive as it relates to my mom. 93 00:07:35,193 --> 00:07:36,524 CYNTHIA: 94 00:07:36,593 --> 00:07:39,261 I interpreted that as an indication 95 00:07:39,330 --> 00:07:40,795 that she wrote the note. 96 00:07:40,864 --> 00:07:43,065 Right, it was inconclusive that she wrote it, 97 00:07:43,134 --> 00:07:45,300 but it was always said with the context 98 00:07:45,369 --> 00:07:47,506 of, "She likely wrote it." 99 00:07:56,781 --> 00:07:59,651 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 100 00:08:00,419 --> 00:08:01,984 CYNTHIA: 101 00:08:02,053 --> 00:08:05,590 Uh, we are getting ready to call Sheila Lowe, 102 00:08:06,124 --> 00:08:07,526 who is a... 103 00:08:08,593 --> 00:08:09,692 I guess a graphologist, 104 00:08:09,761 --> 00:08:12,527 sort of a handwriting examiner expert. 105 00:08:12,596 --> 00:08:16,364 Just trying to learn about it. Oh. Hi, Sheila. 106 00:08:16,433 --> 00:08:18,333 -Hi, there. -STEPHEN: How are you? 107 00:08:18,402 --> 00:08:19,668 SHEILA LOWE: I'm good. How are you? 108 00:08:19,737 --> 00:08:20,903 I'm doing great. Thank you. 109 00:08:20,972 --> 00:08:22,705 I guess you got the note that was left 110 00:08:22,774 --> 00:08:24,109 when she disappeared. 111 00:08:24,542 --> 00:08:25,740 SHEILA: Yes. 112 00:08:25,809 --> 00:08:27,943 STEPHEN: So you had samples of Kerry Hendrix, 113 00:08:28,012 --> 00:08:31,313 his handwriting, her ex-boyfriend, 114 00:08:31,382 --> 00:08:34,815 Tony, and my mother and my father? 115 00:08:34,884 --> 00:08:38,053 The police had somebody look at this a long time ago 116 00:08:38,122 --> 00:08:41,022 that ruled out my father as the writer of the note. 117 00:08:41,091 --> 00:08:43,625 I strongly agree that your father, 118 00:08:43,694 --> 00:08:45,994 he's not capable of writing the note. 119 00:08:46,063 --> 00:08:50,765 His handwriting is so rigid and so extremely linear 120 00:08:50,834 --> 00:08:53,668 that it would be almost impossible for him 121 00:08:53,737 --> 00:08:56,399 to write in a rounded fashion like this. 122 00:08:56,468 --> 00:08:59,508 Do you think that my mother wrote it then? 123 00:08:59,577 --> 00:09:01,109 -SHEILA: No. -No? 124 00:09:01,178 --> 00:09:02,711 I don't. The sample that I looked at, 125 00:09:02,780 --> 00:09:06,181 that was close to the time of writing... 126 00:09:06,250 --> 00:09:08,749 Well, I'm looking at the individual letter forms 127 00:09:08,818 --> 00:09:12,515 and at the spacing, which is the most important, 128 00:09:12,584 --> 00:09:15,624 it's so unconscious that it's not something 129 00:09:15,693 --> 00:09:17,759 that the person is going to think to change. 130 00:09:17,828 --> 00:09:20,728 It seems to me that her spacing is more compact. 131 00:09:20,797 --> 00:09:23,165 -The words are written closer... -STEPHEN: Hm-mm. 132 00:09:23,234 --> 00:09:25,435 ...than in the note which is, you know, 133 00:09:25,504 --> 00:09:26,902 it has quite wide spacing. 134 00:09:26,971 --> 00:09:28,604 STEPHEN: Yeah, quite wide spacing. 135 00:09:28,673 --> 00:09:30,638 ♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 136 00:09:30,707 --> 00:09:32,402 SHEILA: One of the reasons why I ruled it out 137 00:09:32,471 --> 00:09:34,910 was 'cause of the way she made the Fs. 138 00:09:34,979 --> 00:09:37,912 They were very sharp and pointed on the top. 139 00:09:37,981 --> 00:09:41,482 -That seems like a strong idiosyncrasy. -STEPHEN: Right. 140 00:09:41,551 --> 00:09:44,323 That's not at all in the note. 141 00:09:45,923 --> 00:09:48,289 I looked at the handwriting of the man 142 00:09:48,358 --> 00:09:50,895 -that she babysat for-- -STEPHEN: Kerry Hendrix. Yeah. 143 00:09:51,429 --> 00:09:53,561 Yeah. But, um, 144 00:09:53,630 --> 00:09:56,732 again, I couldn't find any evidence. 145 00:09:56,801 --> 00:10:01,436 Now, Tony, I had pretty much ruled out. 146 00:10:01,505 --> 00:10:05,540 And then I saw one sample that put him back in the frame 147 00:10:05,609 --> 00:10:08,604 to some degree. That was this one. 148 00:10:08,673 --> 00:10:12,580 That was the only one that was large and rounded. 149 00:10:12,649 --> 00:10:14,917 But there are still some characteristics 150 00:10:14,986 --> 00:10:16,185 that were quite different. 151 00:10:16,254 --> 00:10:18,287 And there's not the kind of evidence 152 00:10:18,356 --> 00:10:20,722 that I would look for to say that he did it. 153 00:10:20,791 --> 00:10:23,493 But it was interesting that he had the capability 154 00:10:23,562 --> 00:10:25,664 to write this way. 155 00:10:26,297 --> 00:10:27,429 STEPHEN: Huh. 156 00:10:27,498 --> 00:10:29,265 -It's not like DNA. -STEPHEN: Right. 157 00:10:29,333 --> 00:10:30,632 It's opinion. 158 00:10:30,701 --> 00:10:33,939 Some mysteries are just unsolvable. 159 00:10:34,273 --> 00:10:35,307 Right. 160 00:10:46,784 --> 00:10:48,717 (BIRDS CHIRPING) 161 00:10:48,786 --> 00:10:52,024 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 162 00:10:53,218 --> 00:10:57,963 (BIKE ENGINES RUMBLING) 163 00:11:04,202 --> 00:11:05,868 CYNTHIA: So what'd you find out? 164 00:11:05,937 --> 00:11:08,203 RON: Uh, Jack, Jake, whatever his name is... 165 00:11:08,272 --> 00:11:10,973 Jack from James City County that y'all talked to. 166 00:11:11,042 --> 00:11:13,342 He said there was a piece of information 167 00:11:13,411 --> 00:11:14,779 in the file 168 00:11:15,513 --> 00:11:17,677 that got overlooked. 169 00:11:18,549 --> 00:11:20,749 And it was about a one-armed guy, 170 00:11:20,818 --> 00:11:22,284 Charlie May. 171 00:11:22,353 --> 00:11:24,519 And I said, "I've never heard of the guy." 172 00:11:24,588 --> 00:11:26,654 So, I still don't know who it is. 173 00:11:26,723 --> 00:11:28,891 An investigator from James City County 174 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:33,429 told me that this Charlie May had a relationship 175 00:11:33,498 --> 00:11:34,766 with Tony Tobler. 176 00:11:35,332 --> 00:11:36,898 Who's this Tony person? 177 00:11:36,967 --> 00:11:40,335 RON: Tony Tobler was Jennifer's boyfriend. Mm. 178 00:11:40,404 --> 00:11:42,174 CYNTHIA: Well, what does that make you think? 179 00:11:42,940 --> 00:11:44,272 Makes me think like, 180 00:11:44,341 --> 00:11:46,908 A, who in the hell is this Charlie May... (LAUGHS) 181 00:11:46,977 --> 00:11:48,708 ...and what's really going on? 182 00:11:49,514 --> 00:11:51,283 And did Tony Tobler... 183 00:11:52,616 --> 00:11:55,217 Because I still in-- in my mind think 184 00:11:55,286 --> 00:11:57,485 Tony Tobler has something to do with it. 185 00:11:57,554 --> 00:12:00,116 I-- I'm just being flat-out honest. 186 00:12:00,185 --> 00:12:02,061 (INSECTS CHIRPING) 187 00:12:03,161 --> 00:12:04,293 CYNTHIA: The police mentioned 188 00:12:04,362 --> 00:12:06,662 the name of Charlie May to your dad. 189 00:12:06,731 --> 00:12:08,167 Do you know who that is? 190 00:12:08,966 --> 00:12:10,398 We've been researching him. 191 00:12:10,467 --> 00:12:12,034 STEPHEN: I've never... I don't know who that... 192 00:12:12,103 --> 00:12:13,535 -CYNTHIA: Yeah. -STEPHEN: I have no idea 193 00:12:13,604 --> 00:12:14,902 -who that is. -CYNTHIA: So we've been, 194 00:12:14,971 --> 00:12:17,873 like, anything like that, we've been trying our best to-- 195 00:12:17,942 --> 00:12:20,075 Was he a friend of Jennifer's? Was he a... 196 00:12:20,144 --> 00:12:22,578 CYNTHIA: He was apparently a friend of Tony's 197 00:12:22,647 --> 00:12:24,713 that was an older gentleman. 198 00:12:24,782 --> 00:12:26,748 -And so... -KAREN LICHTIN: Like how old? 199 00:12:26,817 --> 00:12:28,851 CYNTHIA: And he apparently has one arm. 200 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:30,518 So, we've been researching... (CHUCKLES) 201 00:12:30,587 --> 00:12:32,954 ...trying to figure out, like, who this person might be. 202 00:12:33,023 --> 00:12:34,657 -All right. -KAREN: If there is 203 00:12:34,726 --> 00:12:37,126 a significant finding, 204 00:12:37,195 --> 00:12:39,798 is he required to tell the family? 205 00:12:40,631 --> 00:12:42,131 (SOFTLY) Yeah. I don't know. 206 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:43,699 CYNTHIA: Yeah, there's something... 207 00:12:43,768 --> 00:12:45,233 He's got something brewing. 208 00:12:45,302 --> 00:12:47,839 KAREN: I just feel like they have found something. 209 00:12:49,073 --> 00:12:52,244 ♪ (SOFT ELECTRONIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 210 00:13:53,504 --> 00:13:54,970 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 211 00:13:55,039 --> 00:13:56,405 -CYNTHIA: Good morning. -Morning. 212 00:13:56,474 --> 00:13:59,507 Y'all look like good mornings. (CHUCKLES) 213 00:13:59,576 --> 00:14:02,314 It turned into something that you didn't expect. 214 00:14:03,648 --> 00:14:05,280 -CYNTHIA: Amen to that. -Mm-hmm. 215 00:14:05,349 --> 00:14:06,682 -CYNTHIA: And this-- -I don't think 216 00:14:06,751 --> 00:14:08,684 that our department expected 217 00:14:08,753 --> 00:14:11,587 the case to do probably, you know. 218 00:14:11,656 --> 00:14:13,388 Not to say that it... 219 00:14:13,457 --> 00:14:16,929 At one point in time, it was honed in on one place. 220 00:14:17,229 --> 00:14:18,260 CYNTHIA: 221 00:14:18,329 --> 00:14:23,231 So now, if new information comes that shows difference 222 00:14:23,300 --> 00:14:26,906 than Mom and Dad, we can't ignore it. 223 00:14:27,406 --> 00:14:30,639 CYNTHIA: 224 00:14:30,708 --> 00:14:33,142 I will not answer that question at this point in time. 225 00:14:33,211 --> 00:14:38,246 CYNTHIA: 226 00:14:38,315 --> 00:14:40,849 I've met with Stephen. I've told him. I mean, 227 00:14:40,918 --> 00:14:43,952 let-- let us do our job, 228 00:14:44,021 --> 00:14:47,026 and once we come to stuff that can be released, 229 00:14:47,492 --> 00:14:48,560 he will know. 230 00:14:50,227 --> 00:14:51,793 CYNTHIA: Is there anything you can tell us 231 00:14:51,862 --> 00:14:53,398 about the special grand jury? 232 00:14:54,999 --> 00:14:56,668 I don't know what you're talking about. 233 00:14:57,969 --> 00:15:00,339 I can't speak of anything at this time. 234 00:15:01,939 --> 00:15:04,143 ♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 235 00:15:11,682 --> 00:15:14,015 -STEPHEN: (ON RECORDING) Hello? -CYNTHIA: Hey. 236 00:15:14,084 --> 00:15:16,284 STEPHEN: So, you know, I sent Jake a text again 237 00:15:16,353 --> 00:15:20,288 this morning. He called me back and he heard back from the lab. 238 00:15:20,357 --> 00:15:23,959 And he was asking me if I had or my mother would have, 239 00:15:24,028 --> 00:15:26,729 any other writings of Jennifer. 240 00:15:26,798 --> 00:15:30,194 Ideally, some handwriting samples 241 00:15:30,263 --> 00:15:31,767 of Tony. 242 00:15:31,836 --> 00:15:33,068 But it sounded like 243 00:15:33,137 --> 00:15:36,537 they had two smaller samples of Tony's handwriting, 244 00:15:36,606 --> 00:15:40,904 and that the analysis of that handwriting 245 00:15:40,973 --> 00:15:44,040 does not rule him out as the writer of the note. 246 00:15:44,109 --> 00:15:47,315 And then that's why he called looking for other samples 247 00:15:47,384 --> 00:15:51,220 of Tony's handwriting from the high school days. 248 00:15:51,289 --> 00:15:54,022 I don't know if my mother would have samples 249 00:15:54,091 --> 00:15:56,295 of Tony's handwriting from that period of time. 250 00:15:59,329 --> 00:16:01,296 AUTOMATED VOICE: This call is being recorded. 251 00:16:01,365 --> 00:16:03,365 CYNTHIA: Hey, I just want to let you know that I called 252 00:16:03,434 --> 00:16:07,002 your mom and she has a box of notes 253 00:16:07,071 --> 00:16:10,606 that Jen was passing back and forth. 254 00:16:10,675 --> 00:16:11,973 But it's up in her attic. 255 00:16:12,042 --> 00:16:13,741 She said I could come by and pick it up. 256 00:16:13,810 --> 00:16:16,378 -So, I'm gonna go do that. -STEPHEN: Okay, great. 257 00:16:16,447 --> 00:16:18,279 -CYNTHIA: Hey, Margie. -MARGIE: Hey. 258 00:16:18,348 --> 00:16:19,615 CYNTHIA: Oh, right here th... 259 00:16:19,684 --> 00:16:20,749 MARGIE: Yeah, the Puma shoebox. 260 00:16:20,818 --> 00:16:22,321 The Puma shoebox. Okay. 261 00:16:22,987 --> 00:16:24,853 MARGIE: Okay. 262 00:16:24,922 --> 00:16:27,326 That right there is from Tony. 263 00:16:28,159 --> 00:16:29,591 -CYNTHIA: It is. -Mm-hmm. 264 00:16:29,660 --> 00:16:31,696 -CYNTHIA: All right. Thank you. -MARGIE: Bye-bye. 265 00:16:45,009 --> 00:16:47,142 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 266 00:16:47,211 --> 00:16:49,611 -STEPHEN: (SIGHS) Okey-doke. -CYNTHIA: Okay. 267 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:50,649 Oh, boy. 268 00:16:54,385 --> 00:16:56,352 CYNTHIA: Yeah, I think that one is from Tony. 269 00:16:56,421 --> 00:16:57,386 Holy cow. 270 00:16:57,455 --> 00:17:00,392 Okay, so we can make a Tony stack. 271 00:17:01,593 --> 00:17:02,694 This is a Tony. 272 00:17:06,397 --> 00:17:08,767 It looks like my sister wrote a brief note. 273 00:17:11,436 --> 00:17:12,437 Tony. 274 00:17:12,837 --> 00:17:14,073 Tony. 275 00:17:14,573 --> 00:17:15,537 Tony. 276 00:17:15,606 --> 00:17:17,372 Yeah, this is it. This is all of it. 277 00:17:17,441 --> 00:17:22,311 There's dozens of them here. Jake's gonna be really happy. 278 00:17:22,380 --> 00:17:24,279 CYNTHIA: But he did tell you that they're looking at Tony. 279 00:17:24,348 --> 00:17:26,151 Tony. Yeah, he did say that. 280 00:17:28,052 --> 00:17:29,551 -CYNTHIA: I-- -I wonder why this guy-- 281 00:17:29,620 --> 00:17:33,292 Why Charlie May? What, I mean... (GROANS) 282 00:17:35,226 --> 00:17:37,660 What's the, you know... (STUTTERS) 283 00:17:37,729 --> 00:17:39,261 What is the connection? 284 00:17:39,330 --> 00:17:42,130 -So we do know a few things... -STEPHEN: Mm-hmm. 285 00:17:42,199 --> 00:17:43,665 ...that we haven't said anything about. 286 00:17:43,734 --> 00:17:46,268 But they did have a special grand jury. 287 00:17:46,337 --> 00:17:50,573 And we went. We saw Tony 288 00:17:50,642 --> 00:17:53,108 and Charlie May go in. 289 00:17:53,177 --> 00:17:56,448 -When was this? -This was back in August. 290 00:18:05,056 --> 00:18:06,791 I wish somebody would have told me that. 291 00:18:09,827 --> 00:18:11,496 (TELEPHONE RINGING) 292 00:18:12,196 --> 00:18:13,295 STEPHEN: Hello? 293 00:18:13,364 --> 00:18:14,629 JAKE: Hey, Stephen, it's Jake. 294 00:18:14,698 --> 00:18:20,002 So, we got this box of letters from Tony. 295 00:18:20,071 --> 00:18:22,537 There's, like, probably 50 of them here. 296 00:18:22,606 --> 00:18:24,273 Do you want me to send them all to you? 297 00:18:24,342 --> 00:18:25,374 -JAKE: Yes. -STEPHEN: Do you want 298 00:18:25,443 --> 00:18:26,976 -a few of them? -JAKE: All of them. 299 00:18:27,045 --> 00:18:28,310 Well, I'm gonna overnight it to you. 300 00:18:28,379 --> 00:18:31,079 -You'll have this tomorrow. -JAKE: Okay. 301 00:18:31,148 --> 00:18:33,318 -Question. Um... -Jake: Uh-huh? 302 00:18:34,647 --> 00:18:36,584 What-- what changed, 303 00:18:36,653 --> 00:18:39,791 or what did you guys find that... 304 00:18:40,858 --> 00:18:42,623 is leading you towards Tony? 305 00:18:42,692 --> 00:18:44,392 Because I'm trying to process all this, 306 00:18:44,461 --> 00:18:46,061 -you know, Jake. -JAKE: Well, and it's-- like, 307 00:18:46,130 --> 00:18:48,696 I met with you when we had found that file. 308 00:18:48,765 --> 00:18:51,300 And in there, there was some people's names 309 00:18:51,369 --> 00:18:54,835 that hadn't ever been, you know, talked to or anything else. 310 00:18:54,904 --> 00:18:58,907 So that led to me actually finding an individual 311 00:18:58,976 --> 00:19:02,845 that provided information that led me, even more, 312 00:19:02,914 --> 00:19:04,446 towards where I'm going now. 313 00:19:04,515 --> 00:19:06,048 It's 'cause it's very hard. 314 00:19:06,117 --> 00:19:09,217 We don't have a body or a place to say, 315 00:19:09,286 --> 00:19:11,719 "Hey, this was a crime scene 30 years ago." 316 00:19:11,788 --> 00:19:14,389 You know, if I send all this and it comes back and says, 317 00:19:14,458 --> 00:19:17,258 "Definitively, this individual has wrote the letter," 318 00:19:17,327 --> 00:19:19,628 then somebody needs to be-- have some explaining. 319 00:19:19,697 --> 00:19:20,963 Okay. 320 00:19:21,032 --> 00:19:22,564 All right. Well, I'll get this to you. 321 00:19:22,633 --> 00:19:24,299 Um, you'll-- you'll have it tomorrow. 322 00:19:24,368 --> 00:19:25,935 JAKE: All right. I appreciate it, Stephen. 323 00:19:26,004 --> 00:19:27,169 Okay, thank you. 324 00:19:27,238 --> 00:19:28,371 -JAKE: All right, thank you. -Okay. 325 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:29,739 -JAKE: Bye. -Bye. 326 00:19:29,808 --> 00:19:31,306 (BUTTON CLICKS) 327 00:19:31,375 --> 00:19:33,578 ♪ (SOFT PIANO MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 328 00:19:49,922 --> 00:19:52,394 STEPHEN: "February 24th, 1986. 329 00:19:52,463 --> 00:19:55,030 I love you so dearly. I want to go shopping with you 330 00:19:55,099 --> 00:19:56,699 so I can buy you a promise ring. 331 00:19:56,768 --> 00:19:59,067 I seriously do 'cause I love you 332 00:19:59,136 --> 00:20:00,631 and I would not mind marrying you." 333 00:20:00,700 --> 00:20:02,737 "March 24th, 1986. 334 00:20:02,806 --> 00:20:05,335 I want to fall asleep with you sometime soon. 335 00:20:05,404 --> 00:20:09,444 If me and you ever have a child, I think we will, I hope so. 336 00:20:09,513 --> 00:20:11,747 If it's a little girl, I want it to look like you." 337 00:20:11,816 --> 00:20:14,116 "June 6th, 1986. 338 00:20:14,185 --> 00:20:16,384 As long as we work out our problems, 339 00:20:16,453 --> 00:20:19,254 we will stay together. Unless you cheat on me, 340 00:20:19,323 --> 00:20:20,755 or I cheat on you. 341 00:20:20,824 --> 00:20:23,325 Don't think nothing like that will happen though, 342 00:20:23,394 --> 00:20:24,759 'cause we love each other. 343 00:20:24,828 --> 00:20:28,363 And you know I would kill you and whoever it was." 344 00:20:28,432 --> 00:20:29,565 CYNTHIA: So this one right here, 345 00:20:29,634 --> 00:20:31,432 Stephen, this is September 24th. 346 00:20:31,501 --> 00:20:34,569 So this was after they broke up, after the abortion. 347 00:20:34,638 --> 00:20:37,305 STEPHEN: "How are you doing? You seem to be in a good mood. 348 00:20:37,374 --> 00:20:38,640 I tried calling you last night. 349 00:20:38,709 --> 00:20:40,475 I called several times and let it ring 350 00:20:40,544 --> 00:20:42,714 about four times, but you never called back." 351 00:20:45,216 --> 00:20:46,447 DONNIE NORRELL: This is a packet. 352 00:20:46,516 --> 00:20:49,284 We just got Jennifer's notes. 353 00:20:49,353 --> 00:20:51,553 In those notes, I read a part 354 00:20:51,622 --> 00:20:55,023 where she describes a sexual act that she... 355 00:20:55,092 --> 00:20:56,792 -Mm-hmm. -...did with him. 356 00:20:56,861 --> 00:20:59,194 "October 11th, 1986." 357 00:20:59,263 --> 00:21:01,696 -DONNIE: Right after the abortion. -When'd she have the abortion? 358 00:21:01,765 --> 00:21:05,266 DONNIE: I think it was in August of '86. 359 00:21:05,335 --> 00:21:08,369 Ah-ha! "My arms have marks on them, 360 00:21:08,438 --> 00:21:10,606 not to mention bruises from where you threw me 361 00:21:10,675 --> 00:21:12,507 on the bed. Hope you're happy. 362 00:21:12,576 --> 00:21:15,743 Stop throwing me around like some dumbass whore. 363 00:21:15,812 --> 00:21:18,614 Call me back and call me when you say you are..." 364 00:21:18,683 --> 00:21:20,448 STEPHEN: "I told you I didn't care 365 00:21:20,517 --> 00:21:22,484 if it was two in the morning. Just call me back 366 00:21:22,553 --> 00:21:24,619 when you say you are. Stop lying to me. 367 00:21:24,688 --> 00:21:27,990 I know you couldn't stay away from Cori for one freaking day. 368 00:21:28,059 --> 00:21:29,057 Now, I see 369 00:21:29,126 --> 00:21:31,287 why you didn't want me to go to the mall with you. 370 00:21:31,356 --> 00:21:33,929 'Cause you had already planned to pick up Cori." 371 00:21:33,998 --> 00:21:35,430 August, she has the abortion. 372 00:21:35,499 --> 00:21:37,099 -DONNIE: Mm-hmm. -October '86, 373 00:21:37,168 --> 00:21:38,567 she's still fooling around with Tony. 374 00:21:38,636 --> 00:21:40,602 He's given her bruises, from this letter. 375 00:21:40,671 --> 00:21:43,038 -She still loves him. -DONNIE: But he's with Cori. 376 00:21:43,107 --> 00:21:44,234 LENA SISCO: But with Cori. 377 00:21:44,303 --> 00:21:46,876 And then in February, 1987, she goes missing. 378 00:21:46,945 --> 00:21:48,543 DONNIE: Mm-hmm. 379 00:21:48,612 --> 00:21:50,145 LENA: So if they were still together 380 00:21:50,214 --> 00:21:51,246 in October, 381 00:21:51,315 --> 00:21:53,047 were they still together in February? 382 00:21:53,116 --> 00:21:55,483 -DONNIE: Sneaking around behind Cori's back. -LENA: Right. Right. 383 00:21:55,552 --> 00:21:56,617 Were they still sneaking around? 384 00:21:56,686 --> 00:21:57,853 Because that's what they were doing... 385 00:21:57,922 --> 00:21:59,524 -DONNIE: Yeah. -...behind Cori's back. 386 00:22:01,926 --> 00:22:04,029 I didn't know any of this. I was gone. 387 00:22:08,966 --> 00:22:10,330 I didn't know any of it. 388 00:22:20,377 --> 00:22:21,877 TONY TOBLER: As things change in your life 389 00:22:21,946 --> 00:22:23,646 and your direction goes somewhere else, 390 00:22:23,715 --> 00:22:25,113 you don't think about it. 391 00:22:25,182 --> 00:22:26,415 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 392 00:22:26,484 --> 00:22:28,587 After a certain amount of time, it's just-- just... 393 00:22:29,287 --> 00:22:30,552 It's not there. 394 00:22:30,621 --> 00:22:32,854 You know, as far as you thinking about it, 395 00:22:32,923 --> 00:22:34,923 or as often as you should, you know, 396 00:22:34,992 --> 00:22:38,026 and it's actually something that, sadly, you get to a point 397 00:22:38,095 --> 00:22:40,499 where you just-- kind of just forget about it. 398 00:22:41,065 --> 00:22:43,760 CYNTHIA: 399 00:22:43,829 --> 00:22:44,900 Say that again. 400 00:22:44,969 --> 00:22:50,239 CYNTHIA: 401 00:22:50,308 --> 00:22:52,373 Did I think that other people thought 402 00:22:52,442 --> 00:22:53,979 I had something to do with it? 403 00:22:55,112 --> 00:22:57,745 Not until years later. 404 00:22:57,814 --> 00:23:01,950 I'm talking to a police officer that her dad... 405 00:23:02,019 --> 00:23:06,588 you know. My guess was like, "Well, talk to him." 406 00:23:06,657 --> 00:23:10,162 You know and my response was, um, I think I was... 407 00:23:11,062 --> 00:23:12,531 16 years old. 408 00:23:14,031 --> 00:23:17,933 Okay. You know, what would I have to do with it? 409 00:23:18,002 --> 00:23:24,340 CHRISTINE DELP: 410 00:23:24,409 --> 00:23:27,209 CYNTHIA: 411 00:23:27,278 --> 00:23:28,577 From the breakup? 412 00:23:28,646 --> 00:23:31,550 I mean, how long do y'all think that her and I dated? 413 00:23:33,317 --> 00:23:34,682 'Cause it wasn't long. 414 00:23:34,751 --> 00:23:38,186 I mean it wasn't like years or nothin'. (CHUCKLES) So... 415 00:23:38,255 --> 00:23:41,723 CYNTHIA: And what interactions have you had with... 416 00:23:41,792 --> 00:23:44,196 KAREN: It has thrown him for a huge loop 417 00:23:45,062 --> 00:23:48,428 and made him question everything. 418 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:50,430 It's been torture. 419 00:23:51,235 --> 00:23:52,667 Just to be blunt. 420 00:23:52,736 --> 00:23:57,505 I think he wants to understand and believe 421 00:23:57,574 --> 00:24:02,077 that maybe this new turn that the case and the story 422 00:24:02,146 --> 00:24:03,946 has taken is true. 423 00:24:04,015 --> 00:24:06,643 He-- I think he really wants it to be true. 424 00:24:06,712 --> 00:24:08,049 To me, 425 00:24:08,118 --> 00:24:11,419 there's some-- still some really weird things 426 00:24:11,488 --> 00:24:14,155 that if your child goes missing, 427 00:24:14,224 --> 00:24:16,926 why would you make something up, 428 00:24:16,995 --> 00:24:19,494 or why... I just... 429 00:24:19,563 --> 00:24:22,397 From everything that I have seen and read, 430 00:24:22,466 --> 00:24:25,467 it still raises red flags with me. 431 00:24:25,536 --> 00:24:28,270 I do not think he will ever reconcile 432 00:24:28,339 --> 00:24:30,972 with his father. Um... 433 00:24:31,041 --> 00:24:34,677 But I do-- He is talking more and more about recon-- 434 00:24:34,746 --> 00:24:36,545 you know, reconciling with his mother 435 00:24:36,614 --> 00:24:38,680 and showing compassion. 436 00:24:38,749 --> 00:24:41,717 He keeps using that word over and over again to me. 437 00:24:41,786 --> 00:24:43,555 -CYNTHIA: Compassion. -Compassion. 438 00:25:16,621 --> 00:25:17,887 Uh, this is... 439 00:25:17,956 --> 00:25:20,755 Like, I guess the, um, Tony to Jennifer. 440 00:25:20,824 --> 00:25:24,259 This is from a note dated April 11th, 1986. 441 00:25:24,328 --> 00:25:26,696 "I'm glad you called me last night at Charlie's. 442 00:25:26,765 --> 00:25:28,363 I'm glad we had that talk 443 00:25:28,432 --> 00:25:30,365 that we had. I love you so much." 444 00:25:30,434 --> 00:25:31,667 ♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 445 00:25:31,736 --> 00:25:33,869 "February 3rd, 1986. 446 00:25:33,938 --> 00:25:36,738 Dear Jennifer, how are you? I'm terrible. 447 00:25:36,807 --> 00:25:38,273 Right now I'm over at Charlie's. 448 00:25:38,342 --> 00:25:40,509 I tried to call you, but you were babysitting." 449 00:25:40,578 --> 00:25:43,779 "April 11th, 1986. It's 12:30. 450 00:25:43,848 --> 00:25:45,848 I just spent the last hour and a half 451 00:25:45,917 --> 00:25:47,883 talking to Charlie out in the woods. 452 00:25:47,952 --> 00:25:50,152 Jennifer, I've cried my eyes out tonight. 453 00:25:50,221 --> 00:25:51,790 I've cried about Charlie..." 454 00:25:55,894 --> 00:25:57,658 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 455 00:25:57,727 --> 00:26:01,496 Here's a bunch of notes that references Charlie. 456 00:26:01,565 --> 00:26:04,434 So, clearly, they knew each other, right? 457 00:26:04,503 --> 00:26:05,968 Or my sister knew Charlie 458 00:26:06,037 --> 00:26:08,303 and I don't know if he helped them... 459 00:26:08,372 --> 00:26:09,805 DONNIE: Did you ever see Charlie? 460 00:26:09,874 --> 00:26:11,944 -I don't know. -You know, 461 00:26:12,643 --> 00:26:14,677 when we first started... 462 00:26:14,746 --> 00:26:17,813 -Sure. -...talking, everybody's focus, 463 00:26:17,882 --> 00:26:19,748 -including mine... -STEPHEN: Yeah. 464 00:26:19,817 --> 00:26:23,618 ...was, like, zeroed in on your father and your mother 465 00:26:23,687 --> 00:26:26,255 because nobody knew who this Charlie was... 466 00:26:26,324 --> 00:26:29,391 -STEPHEN: Right. -...until he shows up at the Grand Jury. 467 00:26:29,460 --> 00:26:31,426 Never-- never met him, never seen him. 468 00:26:31,495 --> 00:26:32,795 -DONNIE: Okay. -Never heard his name 469 00:26:32,864 --> 00:26:35,364 until relatively recently. 470 00:26:35,433 --> 00:26:37,970 (CAR ENGINE RUMBLING) 471 00:26:46,911 --> 00:26:48,711 -ANDREA WEIGL: -CHARLIE MAY: 472 00:26:48,780 --> 00:26:53,182 -ANDREA: -CYNTHIA: 473 00:26:53,251 --> 00:27:00,325 -ANDREA: And we're producers. -CYNTHIA: 474 00:27:01,325 --> 00:27:03,728 -CHARLIE: -ANDREA: 475 00:27:06,097 --> 00:27:07,666 ANDREA: 476 00:27:09,668 --> 00:27:13,738 ANDREA: 477 00:27:17,842 --> 00:27:20,108 ♪ (SOFT INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 478 00:27:20,177 --> 00:27:23,411 CYNTHIA: The first that we heard of Charlie was through your dad. 479 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,749 So, then we found, like, four or five Charlie Mays 480 00:27:26,818 --> 00:27:28,950 in the South that fit that age group. 481 00:27:29,019 --> 00:27:31,519 He popped up in the system again 482 00:27:31,588 --> 00:27:34,122 because he had an assault charge, 483 00:27:34,191 --> 00:27:36,028 and so it allowed us to find him. 484 00:27:37,061 --> 00:27:38,030 Okay. 485 00:27:39,097 --> 00:27:40,065 Well... 486 00:27:44,335 --> 00:27:46,871 I'd love to-- I'd love to talk to Charlie May. 487 00:27:48,372 --> 00:27:50,906 CYNTHIA: We have the number of the woman who operates 488 00:27:50,975 --> 00:27:53,843 -that homeless shelter. -Mm-hmm. 489 00:27:53,912 --> 00:27:56,048 Eight-hour drive, it says, from Charlotte. 490 00:27:58,016 --> 00:28:00,785 ♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪ 491 00:28:14,533 --> 00:28:15,800 (KNOCKING ON DOOR) 492 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,574 STEPHEN: How ya doin'? Charlie? All right, come on in. 493 00:28:25,643 --> 00:28:26,708 How ya doin', sir? 494 00:28:26,777 --> 00:28:27,910 STEPHEN: I'm doing great, how are you? 495 00:28:27,979 --> 00:28:29,281 Come on in and have a seat. 496 00:28:31,683 --> 00:28:33,382 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 497 00:28:33,451 --> 00:28:35,584 -Good morning, sir. I'm Charles. -STEPHEN: Good morning. 498 00:28:35,653 --> 00:28:37,018 -I'm Stephen Pandos. -Steve? 499 00:28:37,087 --> 00:28:38,621 STEPHEN: I'm Jennifer's brother. 500 00:28:38,690 --> 00:28:41,260 Oh, I'm sorry for your loss. 501 00:28:42,126 --> 00:28:44,892 -I hope we can... -Thank you. 502 00:28:44,961 --> 00:28:47,796 -CHARLIE: ...get this figured out. -Yeah, well. Me too. 503 00:28:47,865 --> 00:28:49,331 I'd like to 504 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,204 have some justice for Jennifer and some peace for my mother. 505 00:28:52,937 --> 00:28:55,203 -Yes, I'm sure. -STEPHEN: Yes. 506 00:28:55,272 --> 00:28:58,406 How did you meet Tony? Uh, you know? 507 00:28:58,475 --> 00:29:00,109 I was out on the railroad tracks 508 00:29:00,178 --> 00:29:03,913 one day and, you know, doing my martial arts workout 509 00:29:03,982 --> 00:29:07,682 on the tracks and smokin' a joint, 510 00:29:07,751 --> 00:29:12,187 and Tony was walkin' out and comin' up to. 511 00:29:12,256 --> 00:29:13,254 We sit there, 512 00:29:13,323 --> 00:29:16,258 -and we got high together. -STEPHEN: Mm-hmm. 513 00:29:16,327 --> 00:29:19,127 You know, once in a while he'd asked me to get him 514 00:29:19,196 --> 00:29:21,463 a bag of weed and I'd get him some, 515 00:29:21,532 --> 00:29:24,933 or I'd ask him to get me-- ask if he'd give me a bag. 516 00:29:25,002 --> 00:29:27,903 Yeah. So, you know, that was just more or less... 517 00:29:27,972 --> 00:29:29,508 We was more or less just... 518 00:29:30,074 --> 00:29:32,335 associates smoking weed. 519 00:29:32,404 --> 00:29:34,743 What did the police ask you? 520 00:29:34,812 --> 00:29:37,112 Basically, if I helped her get away, 521 00:29:37,181 --> 00:29:39,415 -leave from the house, and... -STEPHEN: Mm-hmm. 522 00:29:39,484 --> 00:29:40,983 ...I've never done that. 523 00:29:41,052 --> 00:29:42,650 You knew that she was Tony's girlfriend? 524 00:29:42,719 --> 00:29:45,453 Right, exactly. 'Cause he introduced her 525 00:29:45,522 --> 00:29:49,057 when I first seen him and her up at the store. 526 00:29:49,126 --> 00:29:52,661 "This is my girlfriend-slash-fiancée." 527 00:29:52,730 --> 00:29:54,529 -(STEPHEN CHUCKLES) -Okay. 528 00:29:54,598 --> 00:29:57,732 And then I didn't see him for such a long time. 529 00:29:57,801 --> 00:30:00,602 You know, the day he called, it shocked me. 530 00:30:00,671 --> 00:30:04,409 He says, "I got a question for you." I said, "Okay." 531 00:30:05,577 --> 00:30:07,012 And he says, uh... 532 00:30:08,045 --> 00:30:09,678 "How do... If you-- 533 00:30:09,747 --> 00:30:12,314 If you had to get rid of a dead body, 534 00:30:12,383 --> 00:30:14,253 what would-- how would you do it?" 535 00:30:16,420 --> 00:30:19,788 I just simply said, "Well, just take-- 536 00:30:19,857 --> 00:30:21,393 put 'em in a bucket of acid," 537 00:30:22,226 --> 00:30:23,124 you know? 538 00:30:23,193 --> 00:30:25,288 It would dissolve the body or whatever. 539 00:30:25,357 --> 00:30:26,565 -Mm-hmm. -But, uh... 540 00:30:28,732 --> 00:30:30,465 he said, "Where would I get a barrel?" 541 00:30:30,534 --> 00:30:33,168 I said, "I guess off an old construction site, 542 00:30:33,237 --> 00:30:36,305 I don't know. (CHUCKLES) Just an old burn barrel." 543 00:30:36,374 --> 00:30:37,906 -Sure. -CHARLIE: "What about acid?" 544 00:30:37,975 --> 00:30:40,610 I said, "You've got all these 545 00:30:40,679 --> 00:30:43,078 different places building houses. 546 00:30:43,147 --> 00:30:44,980 They got to clean the brick..." 547 00:30:45,049 --> 00:30:47,449 -STEPHEN: Mm-hmm. -"...after they put a brick up. 548 00:30:47,518 --> 00:30:51,323 The brick's normally cleaned with muriatic acid. 549 00:30:52,623 --> 00:30:56,124 And that's what-- They're in gallon jugs, Jim. 550 00:30:56,193 --> 00:30:57,963 That's what you're gonna have to get." 551 00:30:58,629 --> 00:31:01,129 "Oh, okay, okay." You know. 552 00:31:01,198 --> 00:31:03,565 He had a little anxiousness in his voice. 553 00:31:03,634 --> 00:31:04,700 Mm-hmm. 554 00:31:04,769 --> 00:31:06,235 CHARLIE: He called me back and told me, 555 00:31:06,304 --> 00:31:08,871 "Hey, that little problem I said-- I told you I had, 556 00:31:08,940 --> 00:31:11,543 don't worry, I got-- it's taken care of." 557 00:31:12,777 --> 00:31:14,276 "Uh-huh?" 558 00:31:14,345 --> 00:31:16,044 I didn't understand what he was talkin' about. 559 00:31:16,113 --> 00:31:19,018 He says, "About needing to get rid of a dead body." 560 00:31:19,718 --> 00:31:21,049 And I said, "Oh, yeah. Okay." 561 00:31:21,118 --> 00:31:22,350 And I just kinda laughed about it, 562 00:31:22,419 --> 00:31:24,754 and said, "Right Tony. Yeah, sure." 563 00:31:24,823 --> 00:31:25,954 -STEPHEN: Mm-hmm. -You know? 564 00:31:26,023 --> 00:31:29,424 (EXHALES) I thought he was joking. 565 00:31:29,493 --> 00:31:34,396 It took him two or three times before he'd say anything. 566 00:31:34,465 --> 00:31:37,032 He told me he got in a fight with your sister. 567 00:31:37,101 --> 00:31:40,105 That he'd hit her. She fell and hit her head. 568 00:31:40,905 --> 00:31:42,074 And... 569 00:31:43,575 --> 00:31:44,543 she was dead. 570 00:31:45,575 --> 00:31:48,477 I didn't think what he was saying was true. 571 00:31:48,546 --> 00:31:50,212 -STEPHEN: Right. -So, I didn't say nothin' 572 00:31:50,281 --> 00:31:52,982 to the police or anything 'cause I didn't know. 573 00:31:53,051 --> 00:31:55,417 But I didn't think he was joking when the cops come out 574 00:31:55,486 --> 00:31:57,753 talking to me, saying I had something 575 00:31:57,822 --> 00:31:58,888 to do with something. 576 00:31:58,957 --> 00:32:02,624 Did you tell the police in-- in 1987 577 00:32:02,693 --> 00:32:04,663 that-- that Tony had called you? 578 00:32:05,664 --> 00:32:09,565 I don't believe I did. I just... 579 00:32:09,634 --> 00:32:11,500 Everything was so crazy. 580 00:32:11,569 --> 00:32:14,069 -STEPHEN: Yeah. Yeah. -And... (EXHALES) 581 00:32:14,138 --> 00:32:16,337 ...it's still crazy. 582 00:32:16,406 --> 00:32:19,441 So the cops showed up and started interviewing you 583 00:32:19,510 --> 00:32:20,709 in 1987. 584 00:32:20,778 --> 00:32:22,614 (CHUCKLES) Browbeat me. 585 00:32:24,148 --> 00:32:28,149 Took a-- took more or less, you know, 586 00:32:28,218 --> 00:32:29,418 "You're dead. You're a goner. 587 00:32:29,487 --> 00:32:31,186 You're guilty. You did this. You did..." 588 00:32:31,255 --> 00:32:32,788 "No. I did not do that." 589 00:32:32,857 --> 00:32:34,155 STEPHEN: What were this and that? 590 00:32:34,224 --> 00:32:35,623 That you would have, like, went into the neighborhood... 591 00:32:35,692 --> 00:32:37,292 -CHARLIE: Yeah. -...that you went to her house, 592 00:32:37,361 --> 00:32:39,160 -and helped her leave and... -CHARLIE: Right. Exactly. 593 00:32:39,229 --> 00:32:42,034 I've told time and time again, 594 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,032 over and over, 595 00:32:44,101 --> 00:32:48,070 I did not take Jennifer from your home, 596 00:32:48,139 --> 00:32:51,272 or help her leave that area. 597 00:32:51,341 --> 00:32:55,839 And I did not have anything to do with 598 00:32:55,908 --> 00:32:58,479 this murder, or whatever you wanna call it, 599 00:32:58,548 --> 00:33:02,751 which it could-- It could've been an accident. 600 00:33:02,820 --> 00:33:06,054 -I don't know. I wasn't there. -STEPHEN: Sure. Yeah. Right 601 00:33:06,123 --> 00:33:08,390 He did say that he used a barrel of acid? 602 00:33:08,459 --> 00:33:10,291 He just said the problem was taken care of. 603 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,724 -CYNTHIA: So, you don't know how he took care of it? -I don't know how he done it. 604 00:33:13,793 --> 00:33:15,063 CYNTHIA: Like, is there anybody else 605 00:33:15,132 --> 00:33:19,034 that you may have spoken to back then and said, 606 00:33:19,103 --> 00:33:22,174 -"Tony called me and told me?" -No. 607 00:33:23,875 --> 00:33:25,736 Nope. 608 00:33:25,805 --> 00:33:27,376 Do you have any further questions 609 00:33:27,445 --> 00:33:28,677 -for me? -STEPHEN: I don't, Charlie. 610 00:33:28,746 --> 00:33:33,483 I know it's probably unorthodox, but may I pray with you? 611 00:33:33,552 --> 00:33:34,519 STEPHEN: Sure. 612 00:33:37,754 --> 00:33:40,889 Most Gracious Heavenly Father, Lord God, Jehovah, 613 00:33:40,958 --> 00:33:42,290 I ask you, Father God, 614 00:33:42,359 --> 00:33:45,127 place your hands upon the Pandos family. 615 00:33:45,196 --> 00:33:47,429 Give them Jennifer. 616 00:33:47,498 --> 00:33:50,265 Lord, I ask you to take and bring her up 617 00:33:50,334 --> 00:33:52,333 for the family to have closure. 618 00:33:52,402 --> 00:33:55,270 Put your loving arms around the family. 619 00:33:55,339 --> 00:33:58,240 I lift them up to you, Lord, to protect. 620 00:33:58,309 --> 00:34:01,043 I lift them up to you to give the answers. 621 00:34:01,112 --> 00:34:03,682 ♪ (SOFT ELECTRONIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 622 00:34:09,053 --> 00:34:10,555 STEPHEN: It's just hard to hear. 623 00:34:17,795 --> 00:34:19,131 Really hard to hear. 624 00:34:22,532 --> 00:34:25,370 CYNTHIA: So, how reliable do you think Charlie May is? 625 00:34:27,038 --> 00:34:28,373 STEPHEN: Charlie has his issues. 626 00:34:29,473 --> 00:34:31,543 But he doesn't have any reason to make it up. 627 00:34:33,945 --> 00:34:35,711 CYNTHIA: It does cause me concern 628 00:34:35,780 --> 00:34:37,045 that in 1987, 629 00:34:37,114 --> 00:34:39,048 when they interviewed him initially, 630 00:34:39,117 --> 00:34:42,583 that he didn't say a thing about any of this. 631 00:34:42,652 --> 00:34:45,620 STEPHEN: Certainly disappointing that he didn't. 632 00:34:45,689 --> 00:34:48,724 What are the reasons why he didn't? I don't know. 633 00:34:48,793 --> 00:34:51,826 None of them could be very good. 634 00:34:51,895 --> 00:34:54,429 CYNTHIA: Yeah, that story, like if you are sitting there 635 00:34:54,498 --> 00:34:57,666 as a prosecutor with that being the piece of evidence 636 00:34:57,735 --> 00:34:59,001 that you have... 637 00:34:59,070 --> 00:35:00,372 STEPHEN: You'd want more. 638 00:35:06,777 --> 00:35:12,847 Over the last week, there's been one or two moments where... 639 00:35:12,916 --> 00:35:17,619 the shame of thinking that my parents were involved 640 00:35:17,688 --> 00:35:21,326 in this moral atrocity was lifted. 641 00:35:22,392 --> 00:35:26,327 But those moments, you know all that is... 642 00:35:26,396 --> 00:35:27,863 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 643 00:35:27,932 --> 00:35:32,133 ...it's replaced by, you know, an extreme guilt. 644 00:35:32,202 --> 00:35:35,174 Right? For all that I have denied my mother, 645 00:35:36,073 --> 00:35:38,239 and her relationship with Elizabeth 646 00:35:38,308 --> 00:35:42,210 and Anna Catherine, and theirs with her. 647 00:35:42,279 --> 00:35:44,412 And it's no one's fault but my own 648 00:35:44,481 --> 00:35:48,745 that I have caused so much hurt on top 649 00:35:48,814 --> 00:35:51,656 of an already tragic situation. 650 00:35:52,790 --> 00:35:55,657 And that's crushing. 651 00:35:55,726 --> 00:35:58,526 CYNTHIA: What's the next step with your mom do you think? 652 00:35:58,595 --> 00:36:00,863 You know, get some more information 653 00:36:00,932 --> 00:36:02,334 from Jake if I can. 654 00:36:03,101 --> 00:36:04,303 Um... 655 00:36:05,637 --> 00:36:06,671 And then... 656 00:36:08,572 --> 00:36:10,609 And then figure out the things with my mom. 657 00:36:11,804 --> 00:36:13,245 Everybody needs your mom. 658 00:36:14,511 --> 00:36:16,381 CYNTHIA: I think she needs you, too. 659 00:36:16,748 --> 00:36:17,716 Yeah. 660 00:36:20,250 --> 00:36:22,951 CHRISTINE: What do you want from Stephen? 661 00:36:23,020 --> 00:36:26,822 Do you want, like, an apology or-- 662 00:36:26,891 --> 00:36:28,660 No, no apology. 663 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,296 What he did, he... 664 00:36:32,229 --> 00:36:33,732 And what he's doing... 665 00:36:35,933 --> 00:36:39,371 about the investigation... 666 00:36:40,171 --> 00:36:42,441 just fills my heart. 667 00:36:42,941 --> 00:36:43,943 But... 668 00:36:45,143 --> 00:36:46,976 it breaks my heart at the same time 669 00:36:47,045 --> 00:36:48,208 that he has... 670 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:50,578 (CLEARS THROAT) 671 00:36:50,647 --> 00:36:53,982 ...taken the attitude with me that he has. 672 00:36:54,051 --> 00:36:55,583 But, no. 673 00:36:55,652 --> 00:36:57,453 He doesn't need to walk in the door 674 00:36:57,522 --> 00:36:58,958 and say, "Mom, I'm sorry." 675 00:37:01,521 --> 00:37:02,627 Um... 676 00:37:03,862 --> 00:37:06,226 All he needs to do is walk in the door. 677 00:37:07,064 --> 00:37:10,002 That's all. That's all. 678 00:37:11,569 --> 00:37:13,672 ♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 679 00:37:25,349 --> 00:37:26,986 AUTOMATED VOICE: This call is being recorded. 680 00:37:28,519 --> 00:37:30,352 STEPHEN: I spoke to Jake for just a second. 681 00:37:30,421 --> 00:37:35,085 And he made reference to-- my sister wrote Tony a note, 682 00:37:35,154 --> 00:37:36,692 I don't know if it was in a notebook, 683 00:37:36,761 --> 00:37:38,763 the night before she disappeared. 684 00:37:39,196 --> 00:37:40,162 CYNTHIA: Huh. 685 00:37:40,231 --> 00:37:42,464 STEPHEN: Jake didn't know if she gave it to him. 686 00:37:42,533 --> 00:37:46,834 If she, you know, read it to him or whatever. 687 00:37:46,903 --> 00:37:49,474 CYNTHIA: And how does he know that it was written that night? 688 00:37:50,975 --> 00:37:52,473 STEPHEN: The night before she disappeared? 689 00:37:52,542 --> 00:37:54,274 -I guess it was dated. -CYNTHIA: Yeah. 690 00:37:55,980 --> 00:37:59,009 (DIAL TONE RINGING) 691 00:37:59,078 --> 00:38:01,316 -JAKE: Hello. -Hey, Jake. Stephen. 692 00:38:01,385 --> 00:38:02,951 -JAKE: Hey. -How are ya? 693 00:38:03,020 --> 00:38:03,886 JAKE: All right. 694 00:38:03,955 --> 00:38:06,388 So, the note that I've got, the copy of it 695 00:38:06,457 --> 00:38:07,823 that I'd found in the file, 696 00:38:07,892 --> 00:38:13,128 it's dated 2/9 of '87 at 7:42 p.m. 697 00:38:13,197 --> 00:38:15,030 -Okay. -JAKE: So, this says, 698 00:38:15,099 --> 00:38:17,498 "Tony. Hey, what's up? 699 00:38:17,567 --> 00:38:20,202 Like, I'm kind of imagining you're at Cori's right now. 700 00:38:20,271 --> 00:38:22,337 Anyways, I just wrote to tell you 701 00:38:22,406 --> 00:38:24,873 that you should not have lied to me. 702 00:38:24,942 --> 00:38:27,943 I'm not yet sure what I'm gonna do to hurt you 703 00:38:28,012 --> 00:38:30,780 the way that you hurt me by lying to me. 704 00:38:30,849 --> 00:38:34,449 But I can assure it won't be pleasant. 705 00:38:34,518 --> 00:38:36,651 I think I'm gonna do you a very, very big..." 706 00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:38,187 STEPHEN: "I think I'm going to do you 707 00:38:38,256 --> 00:38:39,721 a very, very big favor. 708 00:38:39,790 --> 00:38:42,658 Just don't ask what 'cause I'll only tell you 709 00:38:42,727 --> 00:38:44,293 when I feel the time is right. 710 00:38:44,362 --> 00:38:46,494 But I will tell you this. 711 00:38:46,563 --> 00:38:49,698 It will do you a very big favor, at least in my eyes, 712 00:38:49,767 --> 00:38:51,534 which could be deceiving you. 713 00:38:51,603 --> 00:38:53,835 Well, just thought I'd say 714 00:38:53,904 --> 00:38:56,371 you'll pay for lying to me. Jennifer." 715 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:57,473 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 716 00:38:57,542 --> 00:38:59,641 As she's writing that, 717 00:38:59,710 --> 00:39:02,510 that was the night before. I talked to her that night. 718 00:39:02,579 --> 00:39:04,613 -STEPHEN: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. -(SNIFFS) 719 00:39:04,682 --> 00:39:08,651 If Jennifer was about to-- to-- to bust him for a lie, 720 00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:10,722 for a big lie where he... 721 00:39:11,388 --> 00:39:13,455 Tony had something to lose, 722 00:39:13,524 --> 00:39:16,491 it's not that far of a stretch that something bad 723 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,793 -and unintentional happened. -Right. Right. 724 00:39:18,862 --> 00:39:21,496 -I did tell the-- Jake... -STEPHEN: Mm-hmm. 725 00:39:21,565 --> 00:39:22,798 ...she would've walked out of the house 726 00:39:22,867 --> 00:39:24,666 for only one person and that was Tony 727 00:39:24,735 --> 00:39:26,335 who could've gotten her out of the house. 728 00:39:26,404 --> 00:39:27,536 All right. 729 00:39:27,605 --> 00:39:29,538 SHARON ROSE STEWARD: But it's just... 730 00:39:29,607 --> 00:39:31,406 all these emotions that, like, 731 00:39:31,475 --> 00:39:33,674 I remember going through then of being mad 732 00:39:33,743 --> 00:39:36,044 and if she really did run away, and then you learn-- 733 00:39:36,113 --> 00:39:38,045 And then you learn that it has nothing to do with you... 734 00:39:38,114 --> 00:39:40,282 -SHARON: Had nothing. Exactly. -...and how you internalize it, 735 00:39:40,351 --> 00:39:41,851 and how you think about it. 736 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,053 -It's crazy. -You know, how you... 737 00:39:44,122 --> 00:39:47,723 How people experience things and reality may... 738 00:39:47,792 --> 00:39:49,324 -Mm-hmm. Yeah. -STEPHEN: ...indeed be 739 00:39:49,393 --> 00:39:51,459 the 180-degrees opposite 740 00:39:51,528 --> 00:39:54,529 -of-- of what they think. -Right. 741 00:39:54,598 --> 00:39:57,802 ♪ (SOFT INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 742 00:40:23,294 --> 00:40:24,393 JAKE: The way that it reads, 743 00:40:24,462 --> 00:40:26,695 it points to that individual doing it. 744 00:40:26,764 --> 00:40:29,430 So, the probable is more of a not, 745 00:40:29,499 --> 00:40:32,367 -"Okay, we're at 50/50." -Yeah. 746 00:40:32,436 --> 00:40:34,737 JAKE: It suggests that he wrote it. 747 00:40:34,806 --> 00:40:37,572 You've been patient for a long time. 748 00:40:37,641 --> 00:40:40,179 You just gonna have to be patient for a little bit longer. 749 00:40:41,578 --> 00:40:44,016 ♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 750 00:41:14,378 --> 00:41:17,917 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 751 00:41:23,522 --> 00:41:26,992 (SCANNERS BEEPING) 752 00:42:04,261 --> 00:42:05,527 STEPHEN: This is the affidavit 753 00:42:05,596 --> 00:42:07,900 for a search warrant for Tony's DNA. It's... 754 00:42:08,567 --> 00:42:10,398 I think 13 pages, 755 00:42:10,467 --> 00:42:13,168 and then Attachment A is the affidavit 756 00:42:13,237 --> 00:42:14,135 from the police department. 757 00:42:14,204 --> 00:42:17,105 The affidavit just spells out probable cause 758 00:42:17,174 --> 00:42:18,310 for the search warrant. 759 00:42:19,711 --> 00:42:21,013 Okay. There we go. 760 00:42:22,113 --> 00:42:24,479 Thirteen. It's-- that's six dollars and 50 cents. 761 00:42:24,548 --> 00:42:26,782 -STEPHEN: Thank you so much. -CLERK: No problem. Have a good day. 762 00:42:26,851 --> 00:42:28,653 STEPHEN: Thanks. You, too. 763 00:42:43,868 --> 00:42:48,070 So you know, this says, "On 10/24, 2017, 764 00:42:48,139 --> 00:42:50,038 Investigator Rice interviewed Charlie May 765 00:42:50,107 --> 00:42:52,074 at the Crestview, Florida Police Department. 766 00:42:52,143 --> 00:42:55,077 Charlie May advised that Tony called him and asked, 767 00:42:55,146 --> 00:42:56,679 'How you would get rid of evidence 768 00:42:56,748 --> 00:42:57,913 if you'd killed someone?' 769 00:42:57,982 --> 00:43:00,849 Charlie told Tony he would put them in acid. 770 00:43:00,918 --> 00:43:02,952 Charlie states that it wasn't until later 771 00:43:03,021 --> 00:43:05,548 that Tony told him that he had killed his girlfriend. 772 00:43:05,617 --> 00:43:08,389 Charlie stated that Tony told him he had a fight 773 00:43:08,458 --> 00:43:09,925 with her over getting pregnant 774 00:43:09,994 --> 00:43:12,895 and her parents are going to press rape charges." 775 00:43:12,964 --> 00:43:14,530 CYNTHIA: Charlie did not tell us all this 776 00:43:14,599 --> 00:43:15,763 when we were in Florida. 777 00:43:15,832 --> 00:43:18,028 -Yeah, he did. -CYNTHIA: He didn't say anything 778 00:43:18,097 --> 00:43:19,101 about rape charges. 779 00:43:19,170 --> 00:43:21,069 Well, no, he didn't say anything about that. 780 00:43:21,138 --> 00:43:22,241 But, um... 781 00:43:24,308 --> 00:43:27,303 But he talked about the barrel and he talked about acid. 782 00:43:27,372 --> 00:43:29,177 So, it appears that Tony told him 783 00:43:29,246 --> 00:43:32,147 that he'd stole some acid from a construction site 784 00:43:32,216 --> 00:43:33,082 with a metal barrel. 785 00:43:33,151 --> 00:43:35,717 "Tony told Charlie that he had placed her 786 00:43:35,786 --> 00:43:37,687 in the barrel and filled it with acid. 787 00:43:37,756 --> 00:43:40,021 Charlie states Tony would never say 788 00:43:40,090 --> 00:43:42,157 what he did with the barrel, but Charlie advised him 789 00:43:42,226 --> 00:43:44,092 there was some low-lying area off the right side 790 00:43:44,161 --> 00:43:46,496 of the railroad tracks that runs behind 791 00:43:46,565 --> 00:43:47,832 Windy Hill Trailer Park." 792 00:43:48,700 --> 00:43:49,798 CYNTHIA: Because in this one, 793 00:43:49,867 --> 00:43:52,968 he says the barrel of acid story did happen. 794 00:43:53,037 --> 00:43:55,538 And when we talked to him, he said he wasn't sure 795 00:43:55,607 --> 00:43:56,872 if it happened. 796 00:43:56,941 --> 00:43:58,741 Well, right. He told... But, yeah, 797 00:43:58,810 --> 00:44:00,710 what he said in Florida was that 798 00:44:00,779 --> 00:44:03,344 that's what he told Tony he would do. 799 00:44:03,413 --> 00:44:05,748 CYNTHIA: Mm-hmm. And this is... 800 00:44:05,817 --> 00:44:08,049 In this account, he says that's what he... 801 00:44:08,118 --> 00:44:10,119 -That's what he did. -CYNTHIA: That's what Tony did. 802 00:44:10,188 --> 00:44:12,191 Mm-hmm. Right. 803 00:44:13,091 --> 00:44:15,127 I don't know that that's just... 804 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,264 material in my mind. So... 805 00:44:20,765 --> 00:44:22,834 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 806 00:44:30,908 --> 00:44:32,542 STEPHEN: Hi, Wendi. 807 00:44:32,611 --> 00:44:34,076 Hey, Stephen. How are you? 808 00:44:34,145 --> 00:44:36,244 -Great. How are you? -WENDI REED: Great. 809 00:44:36,313 --> 00:44:40,650 STEPHEN: So, you got this search warrant and affidavit? 810 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:42,684 I did. Yes. 811 00:44:42,753 --> 00:44:46,121 So, what do you think after reading this? 812 00:44:46,190 --> 00:44:50,058 So, yeah, I left the department, um, in 2019, 813 00:44:50,127 --> 00:44:56,564 and I'm retired from there now. So, I still talk with, um, 814 00:44:56,633 --> 00:44:58,767 a few people with the department. 815 00:44:58,836 --> 00:45:01,636 I have a few different opinions. 816 00:45:01,705 --> 00:45:05,140 You know, the first being, uh, Charlie May 817 00:45:05,209 --> 00:45:08,338 as being reliable. They did a few interviews 818 00:45:08,407 --> 00:45:10,512 -with him in Florida. -Yeah. 819 00:45:10,581 --> 00:45:12,675 You know, I was told that he gave, 820 00:45:12,744 --> 00:45:15,545 I think, four different written statements. 821 00:45:15,614 --> 00:45:18,420 So, to me, that's a little concerning, 822 00:45:18,489 --> 00:45:19,821 -just from... -Mm-hmm. 823 00:45:19,890 --> 00:45:21,089 ...you know, from the standpoint 824 00:45:21,158 --> 00:45:25,393 of getting a valid statement from someone. 825 00:45:25,462 --> 00:45:27,128 -STEPHEN: Mm-hmm. -WENDI: You know, as far as 826 00:45:27,197 --> 00:45:29,965 the information that was provided, 827 00:45:30,034 --> 00:45:35,803 I find it hard to believe that a 17-year-old, um, 828 00:45:35,872 --> 00:45:38,406 would know where to find this type of stuff. 829 00:45:38,475 --> 00:45:43,979 And a 17-year-old being able to kill someone, 830 00:45:44,048 --> 00:45:46,947 hide the body, never tell anybody 831 00:45:47,016 --> 00:45:52,788 that tells someone else, and then the body's never found. 832 00:45:52,857 --> 00:45:55,394 A hundred pounds of weight 833 00:45:56,594 --> 00:45:57,492 can be a lot 834 00:45:57,561 --> 00:46:00,361 when you start mixing a lot of liquid in it. 835 00:46:00,430 --> 00:46:05,561 My understanding is they said it was a 55-gallon drum. 836 00:46:05,630 --> 00:46:07,903 That filled with liquid is heavy. 837 00:46:07,972 --> 00:46:11,941 That'd be hard for any-- any one person to deal with. 838 00:46:12,010 --> 00:46:13,308 -WENDI: Exactly. -Yeah. 839 00:46:13,377 --> 00:46:16,411 From reading this attachment for the search warrant, 840 00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:20,115 it seems like the whole case that they have against Tony 841 00:46:20,184 --> 00:46:23,518 is based on what Charlie May is saying 842 00:46:23,587 --> 00:46:27,122 until you get to the last paragraph on that page, 843 00:46:27,191 --> 00:46:28,824 where they talk about the handwriting. 844 00:46:28,893 --> 00:46:30,792 You know, so there's just... 845 00:46:30,861 --> 00:46:33,561 There is a lot of doubt still. 846 00:46:33,630 --> 00:46:37,900 You know, what I had learned from this discovery 847 00:46:37,969 --> 00:46:40,035 -of the original case file... -Mm-hmm. 848 00:46:40,104 --> 00:46:43,873 WENDI: ...definitely gave me reason to rethink, 849 00:46:43,942 --> 00:46:46,475 you know, the case against your mom and dad. 850 00:46:46,544 --> 00:46:50,445 It definitely gave me doubt. 851 00:46:50,514 --> 00:46:52,715 You know, but the same thing goes for Tony. 852 00:46:52,784 --> 00:46:54,515 Uh, yeah. Like, for a decade, 853 00:46:54,584 --> 00:46:57,352 everybody was telling me, "It was your parents." Right? 854 00:46:57,421 --> 00:47:00,322 You know, I can't tell you how awful it feels 855 00:47:00,391 --> 00:47:03,225 to accuse people of killing their kid 856 00:47:03,294 --> 00:47:06,795 and then find out that there's information 857 00:47:06,864 --> 00:47:09,064 that was there in the very beginning 858 00:47:09,133 --> 00:47:12,601 that would have helped that not happen. 859 00:47:12,670 --> 00:47:15,835 ♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 860 00:47:32,824 --> 00:47:36,428 Wendi could get pretty nasty. 861 00:47:37,362 --> 00:47:38,330 I mean... 862 00:47:40,699 --> 00:47:44,066 downright disrespectful and rude. 863 00:47:44,135 --> 00:47:45,801 But, I guess, that's all part of the game. 864 00:47:45,870 --> 00:47:48,404 You don't sit down and ask polite questions 865 00:47:48,473 --> 00:47:50,642 when you want something. 866 00:47:52,371 --> 00:47:53,345 You know, it's... 867 00:47:57,041 --> 00:48:02,418 destroyed my relationships with my son and my sisters. 868 00:48:02,487 --> 00:48:03,488 Really. 869 00:48:03,922 --> 00:48:08,324 CYNTHIA: 870 00:48:08,393 --> 00:48:09,594 I don't see one. 871 00:48:10,762 --> 00:48:13,232 I really don't. It's been too long. 872 00:48:17,969 --> 00:48:20,005 (DIAL TONE RINGING) 873 00:48:21,238 --> 00:48:22,905 AUTOMATED VOICE: Your call has been forwarded 874 00:48:22,974 --> 00:48:25,775 to an automated voice messaging system. 875 00:48:25,844 --> 00:48:27,643 Good morning. It's Stephen Pandos. 876 00:48:27,712 --> 00:48:30,245 Um, just calling to see, uh, 877 00:48:30,314 --> 00:48:32,047 if you have an update from the lab? 878 00:48:32,116 --> 00:48:35,150 I guess, it's been ten weeks today. 879 00:48:35,219 --> 00:48:36,885 Uh, if you could please give me a call 880 00:48:36,954 --> 00:48:38,086 when you get a minute, 881 00:48:38,155 --> 00:48:40,192 I'd appreciate it. Thanks very much. 882 00:48:42,294 --> 00:48:45,794 CYNTHIA: 883 00:48:45,863 --> 00:48:50,298 STEPHEN: Since January of 2009. 884 00:48:50,367 --> 00:48:53,068 Fourteen years. Thirteen and a half years or so. 885 00:48:53,137 --> 00:48:57,973 And been filming for the documentary, 886 00:48:58,042 --> 00:48:59,311 seven years. 887 00:48:59,678 --> 00:49:01,977 CYNTHIA: 888 00:49:02,046 --> 00:49:03,682 -With you. -Yeah, for sure. 889 00:49:04,949 --> 00:49:07,987 CYNTHIA: 890 00:49:14,425 --> 00:49:16,491 STEPHEN: Yeah. I mean, maybe it probably, you know, 891 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,695 uh, in the early days, when this was a way for me 892 00:49:19,764 --> 00:49:22,734 to perhaps, you know, um... 893 00:49:26,204 --> 00:49:29,304 you know, exercise a lot of anger towards my father, 894 00:49:29,373 --> 00:49:31,539 you know, about growing up. 895 00:49:31,608 --> 00:49:33,641 CYNTHIA: Can we talk about the DNA testing? 896 00:49:33,710 --> 00:49:37,178 It seems like such a long shot for them to extract DNA 897 00:49:37,247 --> 00:49:41,083 from a note that was left in Jennifer's room 35 years ago. 898 00:49:41,152 --> 00:49:42,583 And for 20 of those years, 899 00:49:42,652 --> 00:49:44,419 you know, it was in your mom's possession. 900 00:49:44,488 --> 00:49:46,517 STEPHEN: And, you know, other people 901 00:49:46,586 --> 00:49:48,089 surely touched the note. 902 00:49:48,158 --> 00:49:49,524 CYNTHIA: But what if it comes back 903 00:49:49,593 --> 00:49:52,323 and it's not a match? What does that say? 904 00:49:52,392 --> 00:49:53,294 Nothing really. 905 00:49:53,363 --> 00:49:55,264 I mean, 'cause again... 'Cause a lot of people 906 00:49:55,333 --> 00:49:56,768 have had their hands on that note. 907 00:49:58,202 --> 00:50:01,136 CYNTHIA: At this point, is it important for you to know 908 00:50:01,205 --> 00:50:02,707 what happened to Jennifer? 909 00:50:04,274 --> 00:50:08,047 Jennifer's truth deserves to be told, whatever it is. 910 00:50:19,323 --> 00:50:22,057 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 911 00:50:22,126 --> 00:50:23,558 -(SIGHS) Hello, Stephen. -STEPHEN: How are you? 912 00:50:23,627 --> 00:50:25,160 -Good to see you. -STEPHEN: Good to see you. 913 00:50:25,229 --> 00:50:26,261 NATE GREEN: Come on back. 914 00:50:26,330 --> 00:50:27,930 We've been on the phone so many times, 915 00:50:27,999 --> 00:50:29,597 I'm not even sure, have you ever been here? 916 00:50:29,666 --> 00:50:32,200 -I don't think you have. -STEPHEN: I've never been. Not in your office, no. 917 00:50:32,269 --> 00:50:34,273 -So, you wanna just take a seat? -Yep. 918 00:50:37,341 --> 00:50:38,607 You know, I guess we're still waiting 919 00:50:38,676 --> 00:50:41,109 -for an update from the lab. -Yes, uh... 920 00:50:41,178 --> 00:50:43,211 And from what I understand, it's been a long time. 921 00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:46,081 NATE: It has been a lot longer than we anticipated. 922 00:50:46,150 --> 00:50:48,984 I do know that you've been frustrated, 923 00:50:49,053 --> 00:50:51,519 uh, with, kind of, 924 00:50:51,588 --> 00:50:55,690 our inability to give you a lot of updates on this case. 925 00:50:55,759 --> 00:50:58,326 And I would love to be able to tell you more 926 00:50:58,395 --> 00:51:00,362 about where we are looking, but that's where we get 927 00:51:00,431 --> 00:51:02,797 into that balance of I've got to be fair 928 00:51:02,866 --> 00:51:06,735 to both the investigation and to any individual 929 00:51:06,804 --> 00:51:07,702 -that... -STEPHEN: Yeah. 930 00:51:07,771 --> 00:51:09,371 ...could potentially be charged in the future. 931 00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,206 I just can't talk with you 932 00:51:11,275 --> 00:51:14,776 about where that investigation is going now. 933 00:51:14,845 --> 00:51:17,312 -I can't imagine what you've been going through. -Yeah. 934 00:51:17,381 --> 00:51:20,382 I have nothing but sympathy for everything 935 00:51:20,451 --> 00:51:22,952 that you and your family have gone through 936 00:51:23,021 --> 00:51:24,053 because of this. 937 00:51:24,122 --> 00:51:26,421 I would like nothing more than to be able 938 00:51:26,490 --> 00:51:28,057 -to deliver you that truth... -Right. 939 00:51:28,126 --> 00:51:29,191 NATE: ...in the courtroom. 940 00:51:29,260 --> 00:51:31,460 But I also don't want to say 941 00:51:31,529 --> 00:51:33,528 that I... I know for a fact 942 00:51:33,597 --> 00:51:35,964 that we are eventually going to be in a position 943 00:51:36,033 --> 00:51:37,166 that we can charge somebody. 944 00:51:37,235 --> 00:51:40,702 This is so different than anything 945 00:51:40,771 --> 00:51:44,306 that we've ever handled, anything that I've ever handled. 946 00:51:44,375 --> 00:51:47,242 Because we didn't have that original file, you know. 947 00:51:47,311 --> 00:51:49,144 We came to some bad conclusions 948 00:51:49,213 --> 00:51:50,679 because of imperfect information. 949 00:51:50,748 --> 00:51:53,815 And we've probably tiptoed around something 950 00:51:53,884 --> 00:51:58,487 that I think I should have made more clear years ago. 951 00:51:58,556 --> 00:52:00,188 And that is 952 00:52:00,257 --> 00:52:02,458 the information that we have now. 953 00:52:02,527 --> 00:52:03,424 All right. 954 00:52:03,493 --> 00:52:06,294 Your parents are not suspects in this case. 955 00:52:06,363 --> 00:52:08,263 -They were at the time... -Right. 956 00:52:08,332 --> 00:52:09,531 ...but this office 957 00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,367 is not looking at your parents, either your mother 958 00:52:12,436 --> 00:52:14,435 or your father, as being involved 959 00:52:14,504 --> 00:52:16,637 with your sister's disappearance. 960 00:52:16,706 --> 00:52:19,107 We do not suspect that your dad did this... 961 00:52:19,176 --> 00:52:20,408 -Yeah. -...and we do not suspect 962 00:52:20,477 --> 00:52:22,443 that your mother had any knowledge of it, 963 00:52:22,512 --> 00:52:24,780 -or had any role whatsoever. -STEPHEN: Right. Right. 964 00:52:24,849 --> 00:52:26,751 ♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 965 00:52:53,911 --> 00:52:56,481 CYNTHIA: 966 00:52:58,949 --> 00:53:01,954 I feel like I have to, um... 967 00:53:03,220 --> 00:53:04,589 you know, to restart... 968 00:53:07,825 --> 00:53:09,461 you know, that relationship. 969 00:53:10,895 --> 00:53:13,598 And so I have to do it and I have to try. 970 00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,366 I wanna go and I wanna talk to my mother about it, 971 00:53:18,435 --> 00:53:22,942 and, you know, I need to do that in-- in private. 972 00:53:24,542 --> 00:53:26,241 What I'm gonna tell my mom 973 00:53:26,310 --> 00:53:29,511 is that the police are now looking at Tony. 974 00:53:29,580 --> 00:53:31,516 But I don't know the outcome... 975 00:53:32,783 --> 00:53:35,550 and I'm probably just going to leave it at that. 976 00:53:35,619 --> 00:53:39,021 Um, I'm not gonna get into any of the specifics 977 00:53:39,090 --> 00:53:40,759 of what Charlie said. 978 00:53:41,654 --> 00:53:42,794 That's too much. 979 00:53:45,429 --> 00:53:47,928 I have to use the lessons learned 980 00:53:47,997 --> 00:53:52,433 from this whole experience to have a better relationship. 981 00:53:52,502 --> 00:53:55,403 I feel in my heart that that's what I have to do. 982 00:53:55,472 --> 00:53:56,939 She needs a relationship with me, 983 00:53:57,008 --> 00:53:58,907 she needs a relationship with her granddaughters, 984 00:53:58,976 --> 00:54:00,142 she needs that. 985 00:54:00,211 --> 00:54:03,782 -♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪ -(BIRDS CHIRPING) 986 00:54:34,445 --> 00:54:35,814 -STEPHEN: Hi, Mom. -MARGIE: Hey, babe. 987 00:54:36,714 --> 00:54:38,483 -Good to see you. -STEPHEN: You, too. 988 00:54:53,763 --> 00:54:58,770 -(COFFEE MACHINE WHIRRING) -♪ (CLASSICAL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 989 00:55:14,985 --> 00:55:18,053 AUTOMATED VOICE: This call may be recorded or transcribed. 990 00:55:18,122 --> 00:55:19,455 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 991 00:55:19,524 --> 00:55:20,822 STEPHEN: Hey there. 992 00:55:20,891 --> 00:55:22,786 CYNTHIA: 993 00:55:22,855 --> 00:55:29,801 STEPHEN: (CLEARS THROAT) 994 00:55:48,119 --> 00:55:50,819 CYNTHIA: 995 00:55:50,888 --> 00:55:54,426 STEPHEN: 996 00:57:01,891 --> 00:57:05,425 -(CRICKETS CHIRPING) -♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 997 00:57:08,493 --> 00:57:10,566 ...you need to understand how I feel about him. 998 00:57:10,635 --> 00:57:12,637 Yeah. (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) 999 00:57:20,144 --> 00:57:22,244 RON: What part of "get off the goddamn phone" 1000 00:57:22,313 --> 00:57:24,312 -don't you understand? -JENNIFER PANDOS: Fine, Ronald. 1001 00:57:24,381 --> 00:57:25,781 I'll get off the goddamn phone. 1002 00:57:25,850 --> 00:57:27,248 (RON SPEAKING INDISTINCTLY) 1003 00:57:27,317 --> 00:57:29,150 JENNIFER: Get out of my room! That's all I'm asking. Just go. 1004 00:57:29,219 --> 00:57:30,822 (MUFFLED ARGUING) 1005 00:57:47,738 --> 00:57:52,644 ♪ (SOFT ELECTRONIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1006 00:59:43,382 --> 00:59:45,224 ♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪ 1007 01:00:10,748 --> 01:00:13,613 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪