1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:06,423 --> 00:00:08,967 -[birds singing] -[siren wails in the distance] 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 4 00:00:14,848 --> 00:00:17,392 Do you know that feeling when you're sitting in a movie theater, 5 00:00:17,475 --> 00:00:20,603 and everyone's laughing at something, and you just don't get it? 6 00:00:20,937 --> 00:00:25,400 ♪ Can't find a better man ♪ 7 00:00:25,942 --> 00:00:28,445 I hate everyone else in the world but you. 8 00:00:28,653 --> 00:00:30,864 [Laverne] I never thought I'd live in a world 9 00:00:30,947 --> 00:00:32,907 where trans people would be celebrated... 10 00:00:32,991 --> 00:00:34,617 [audience applauding] 11 00:00:34,701 --> 00:00:36,453 ...on or off the screen. 12 00:00:36,536 --> 00:00:39,581 Thank you, thank you so much for this moment. 13 00:00:39,664 --> 00:00:43,376 [Laverne] I never thought the media would stop asking horrible questions... 14 00:00:43,460 --> 00:00:45,253 How do you hide your penis? 15 00:00:45,336 --> 00:00:46,171 [audience laughs] 16 00:00:46,254 --> 00:00:48,715 [Laverne] ...and start treating us with respect. 17 00:00:48,798 --> 00:00:53,678 You kept it quiet because, you said, you didn't want to become "othered." 18 00:00:54,137 --> 00:00:56,806 [Laverne] Now, look how far we've come. 19 00:00:56,890 --> 00:00:59,100 [Asia Kate] We have so much more representation, 20 00:00:59,184 --> 00:01:00,894 in government, in media. 21 00:01:01,478 --> 00:01:03,480 [Laverne] We are everywhere. 22 00:01:03,563 --> 00:01:06,316 [Alexandra] And you never know what those positive images do 23 00:01:06,399 --> 00:01:07,317 for other people. 24 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:08,526 You never know. 25 00:01:09,235 --> 00:01:13,573 [Jen] For the first time, trans people are taking center 26 00:01:13,656 --> 00:01:15,742 of their own storytelling. 27 00:01:16,201 --> 00:01:17,160 [Laverne] At this point, 28 00:01:17,243 --> 00:01:20,455 we're talking, really, about unprecedented trans visibility. 29 00:01:20,538 --> 00:01:22,582 That's my sister! 30 00:01:23,208 --> 00:01:26,836 Trans people are being murdered disproportionately, still. 31 00:01:29,130 --> 00:01:32,050 [Tiq] That's the paradox of our representation, is... 32 00:01:32,759 --> 00:01:34,135 the more we are seen, 33 00:01:35,303 --> 00:01:36,971 the more we are violated. 34 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,184 [Jamie] The more positive representation there is, 35 00:01:41,267 --> 00:01:43,728 the more confidence the community gains, 36 00:01:44,062 --> 00:01:46,272 which then puts us in more danger. 37 00:01:47,065 --> 00:01:49,067 [Alexandra] I go into the women's restroom, 38 00:01:49,150 --> 00:01:50,652 then I've committed a crime. 39 00:01:50,735 --> 00:01:52,320 If I go in the men's restroom, 40 00:01:53,071 --> 00:01:54,572 then everybody knows. 41 00:01:56,032 --> 00:01:58,409 [Zackary] I think all of us in the community 42 00:01:58,493 --> 00:02:00,078 have had those moments of being, like... 43 00:02:00,161 --> 00:02:04,874 is this going to somehow alienate people who aren't ready yet? 44 00:02:06,334 --> 00:02:08,753 [Susan] Why is it that trans issues 45 00:02:08,837 --> 00:02:11,506 have become, like, a front and center issue 46 00:02:11,589 --> 00:02:13,007 in the culture wars? 47 00:02:14,551 --> 00:02:16,427 [Zackary] I think capitalizing on people's fear 48 00:02:16,511 --> 00:02:20,181 is what has landed us in this moment right now, 49 00:02:20,265 --> 00:02:24,435 and you have hope on one side and fear on the other. 50 00:02:25,436 --> 00:02:27,063 [Laverne] I think, for a very long time, 51 00:02:27,772 --> 00:02:30,900 the ways in which trans people have been represented on-screen 52 00:02:31,568 --> 00:02:34,904 have suggested that we're not real, 53 00:02:34,988 --> 00:02:37,532 have suggested that we're mentally ill, 54 00:02:37,615 --> 00:02:40,451 that we don't exist. 55 00:02:40,535 --> 00:02:42,829 And yet, here I am. 56 00:02:42,912 --> 00:02:45,373 Yet here we are, and we've always been here. 57 00:02:56,509 --> 00:02:57,635 Hit it, maestro. 58 00:02:57,719 --> 00:02:59,012 [band playing] 59 00:02:59,095 --> 00:03:00,597 ♪ All of me ♪ 60 00:03:00,930 --> 00:03:03,892 ♪ Why not take all of me? ♪ 61 00:03:05,185 --> 00:03:08,855 ♪ Can't you see I'm no good without you? ♪ 62 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,609 [Laverne] What's interesting for me about growing up in Mobile, Alabama, 63 00:03:12,692 --> 00:03:17,447 and then having my first interactions with what it meant to be transgender 64 00:03:17,530 --> 00:03:18,781 happening on television, 65 00:03:18,865 --> 00:03:23,786 is that even when characters weren't necessarily trans identified, 66 00:03:24,621 --> 00:03:28,124 I think those characters affected how I thought of myself as a trans person 67 00:03:28,208 --> 00:03:31,794 and how the general public probably thinks about trans people. 68 00:03:31,878 --> 00:03:33,630 [audience laughing and applauding] 69 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,092 [Laverne] And one of those early images for me 70 00:03:38,176 --> 00:03:41,971 was the character of Geraldine from The Flip Wilson Show. 71 00:03:42,055 --> 00:03:46,142 ♪ I can't stop wanting you ♪ 72 00:03:47,310 --> 00:03:48,561 Sing the song, Ray! 73 00:03:48,645 --> 00:03:51,648 ♪ It's useless to say ♪ 74 00:03:53,399 --> 00:03:56,444 [Laverne] I remember I would watch it with my mom and my brother, 75 00:03:56,527 --> 00:04:00,615 and my mother loved Geraldine and would laugh at that character, 76 00:04:00,698 --> 00:04:03,409 so it was something that existed in the realm of humor. 77 00:04:03,826 --> 00:04:07,330 But whenever there was something "trans" this 78 00:04:07,413 --> 00:04:09,624 or "sex change" that... 79 00:04:09,707 --> 00:04:13,127 [laughing] A sex change operation! 80 00:04:13,211 --> 00:04:15,713 -A sex change operation! -Right. 81 00:04:16,381 --> 00:04:17,340 I'd better sit down. 82 00:04:17,423 --> 00:04:18,967 [audience laughs] 83 00:04:19,050 --> 00:04:20,843 ...I would be very interested, 84 00:04:20,927 --> 00:04:24,013 and I would sort of lean in, but very, sort of, discreetly. 85 00:04:24,097 --> 00:04:25,348 [audience chuckles] 86 00:04:26,933 --> 00:04:28,017 -Gotcha! -[screams] 87 00:04:28,101 --> 00:04:29,435 [audience laughs] 88 00:04:29,519 --> 00:04:32,021 I think one of the first trans representations 89 00:04:32,105 --> 00:04:33,231 I saw in a fictional context 90 00:04:33,314 --> 00:04:37,318 was that episode of The Jeffersons with Edie Stokes. 91 00:04:38,152 --> 00:04:41,030 It's me, Eddie. Only I'm Edie now. 92 00:04:42,323 --> 00:04:43,157 Say what? 93 00:04:43,241 --> 00:04:45,743 [audience laughs and applauds] 94 00:04:51,165 --> 00:04:52,625 Take a good look. 95 00:04:53,209 --> 00:04:55,920 [Laverne] She was beautiful and elegant and Black. 96 00:04:56,004 --> 00:04:57,547 [George and audience laugh] 97 00:04:57,630 --> 00:05:01,217 [Laverne] But then also there was the character that George hired 98 00:05:01,301 --> 00:05:02,760 to say that he was Edie 99 00:05:02,844 --> 00:05:05,763 to, sort of, let Weezie know that he wasn't cheating. 100 00:05:06,389 --> 00:05:07,765 [audience laughs] 101 00:05:11,936 --> 00:05:15,231 [Laverne] That representation felt like it existed as a joke 102 00:05:15,315 --> 00:05:19,110 and the same bullying that I was experiencing at school. 103 00:05:19,485 --> 00:05:21,195 -What's that? -[audience laughs] 104 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:23,364 [Laverne] I was like, "This is not who I am." 105 00:05:23,448 --> 00:05:25,366 You know, I went to church every Sunday 106 00:05:25,450 --> 00:05:28,202 and was a straight A student, and I won talent shows 107 00:05:28,286 --> 00:05:34,667 with the tap and jazz dance numbers I choreographed myself. [laughing] 108 00:05:34,751 --> 00:05:35,710 I did. 109 00:05:35,793 --> 00:05:37,253 So, that was, like, who I was, 110 00:05:37,337 --> 00:05:40,882 and my mom wanted me to be successful, and I was being groomed to be successful, 111 00:05:40,965 --> 00:05:43,092 and then I'd turn on the television and I'd see... 112 00:05:43,176 --> 00:05:44,302 [audience laughing] 113 00:05:45,970 --> 00:05:51,059 ...these images that don't seem to comport with, like, the person that I knew I was. 114 00:05:51,142 --> 00:05:52,643 [audience continues laughing] 115 00:05:54,395 --> 00:05:56,856 And so, everything that was trans about me, 116 00:05:56,939 --> 00:05:58,024 it made me just hate. 117 00:05:58,107 --> 00:05:59,817 I... I have to leave. 118 00:06:00,568 --> 00:06:02,528 [audience continues laughing] 119 00:06:02,612 --> 00:06:03,446 I'm gonna go. 120 00:06:05,823 --> 00:06:07,200 As a trans person, 121 00:06:08,368 --> 00:06:11,788 you have the most sensitive radar 122 00:06:11,996 --> 00:06:14,707 to tell the difference between you're laughing with us... 123 00:06:15,124 --> 00:06:18,628 In the phone book, you were listed as F. Deveau. 124 00:06:18,711 --> 00:06:23,549 [chuckles] The F stands for "Frank," hon. That's me. 125 00:06:25,009 --> 00:06:26,677 ...or you're laughing at us. 126 00:06:27,345 --> 00:06:28,638 This is the men's room. 127 00:06:28,721 --> 00:06:30,973 [exhales] I know. I'm a dude. 128 00:06:31,057 --> 00:06:33,434 -[gasps] -[audience laughs] 129 00:06:33,518 --> 00:06:35,061 Trans jokes? Really? 130 00:06:35,645 --> 00:06:37,563 Hello, Joel. I'm Jackie. 131 00:06:38,356 --> 00:06:40,274 [Bianca] Most of us have a good sense of humor. 132 00:06:40,358 --> 00:06:42,110 We've had to have a good sense of humor. 133 00:06:42,193 --> 00:06:44,737 -Why am I being arrested? -[audience laughs] 134 00:06:44,821 --> 00:06:47,698 I told you, it's called an unclassified misdemeanor. 135 00:06:47,782 --> 00:06:49,992 But we don't want to be the butt of jokes. 136 00:06:53,496 --> 00:06:55,081 -Wait a minute, I forgot something. -What? 137 00:06:55,164 --> 00:06:57,250 -Can you talk like a woman? -[high-pitched] Like this? 138 00:06:57,333 --> 00:06:59,001 That's awful. Can't you do better than that? 139 00:06:59,085 --> 00:06:59,919 [normal voice] No. 140 00:07:00,002 --> 00:07:02,672 Every trans person carries within themself 141 00:07:02,755 --> 00:07:04,841 a history of trans representation 142 00:07:04,924 --> 00:07:06,884 just in terms of what they've seen themselves. 143 00:07:09,053 --> 00:07:10,054 Coop. 144 00:07:12,682 --> 00:07:13,808 Dennis? 145 00:07:16,310 --> 00:07:18,855 Why don't you live with me, and I'll be your wife? 146 00:07:20,189 --> 00:07:22,358 [Jen] What trans people really need, though, 147 00:07:23,151 --> 00:07:26,320 is a sense of a broader history of that representation, 148 00:07:28,281 --> 00:07:30,825 so that they can, kind of, find themselves in it. 149 00:07:35,455 --> 00:07:40,626 I think it's just fascinating that some of the earliest moving images 150 00:07:40,710 --> 00:07:43,171 were cross-dressed images. 151 00:07:50,094 --> 00:07:54,348 When you watch, it very much feels like womanhood is silly 152 00:07:54,432 --> 00:07:55,808 and is to be mocked. 153 00:07:58,769 --> 00:08:01,105 When you think about the time, that time historically, 154 00:08:01,189 --> 00:08:02,565 cross-dressing was illegal, 155 00:08:02,982 --> 00:08:07,987 so that someone who decided to transgress gender expectations in real life 156 00:08:08,070 --> 00:08:10,156 was often harassed and arrested. 157 00:08:15,953 --> 00:08:18,873 [Alexandra] If we're talking about in this country, in American cinema, 158 00:08:19,707 --> 00:08:23,044 we've been around since there was, uh, footage. 159 00:08:23,127 --> 00:08:24,629 You just have to look for us. 160 00:08:30,009 --> 00:08:32,595 [Susan] One of the films that is often credited 161 00:08:32,678 --> 00:08:36,516 with inventing what's called the dynamic montage. 162 00:08:36,599 --> 00:08:38,142 [soft piano music playing] 163 00:08:38,226 --> 00:08:40,269 And that was a D. W. Griffith film, 164 00:08:40,353 --> 00:08:43,731 and the story is of Judith of Bethulia, 165 00:08:43,814 --> 00:08:46,442 who's a good Jewish woman who lives in Jerusalem, 166 00:08:46,984 --> 00:08:49,111 then the invading army is coming. 167 00:08:51,239 --> 00:08:54,033 And Judith, to save the city, 168 00:08:54,116 --> 00:08:59,163 pretends to be a concubine of Holofernes, the general. 169 00:09:00,164 --> 00:09:03,000 And while she is in his tent, 170 00:09:04,794 --> 00:09:06,837 she takes a sword and cuts his head off. 171 00:09:08,005 --> 00:09:11,676 There's a claim that this is one of the first films that we know of 172 00:09:11,759 --> 00:09:16,764 where the cut in the film is used to advance the story. 173 00:09:18,891 --> 00:09:24,397 And there's a kind of, like, trans or, you know, gender non-binary character 174 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:29,026 who is kind of circulating around the cut in the narrative. 175 00:09:31,487 --> 00:09:35,032 It's almost like the figure of the cut trans body, 176 00:09:35,116 --> 00:09:37,994 the eunuch who's been castrated or emasculated, 177 00:09:38,077 --> 00:09:39,620 who is a cut figure, 178 00:09:39,704 --> 00:09:40,871 presides over... 179 00:09:42,039 --> 00:09:44,417 the invention of the cinematic cut. 180 00:09:46,711 --> 00:09:49,463 It's like trans and cinema have grown up together. 181 00:09:49,547 --> 00:09:53,801 It's like we have always been present on-screen, 182 00:09:54,176 --> 00:09:56,470 and it's not just coincidental. 183 00:09:56,554 --> 00:09:59,307 I mean, there's something really deeply connected. 184 00:10:02,018 --> 00:10:05,062 Can we all just talk about D. W. Griffith for a minute? 185 00:10:09,775 --> 00:10:12,820 As the Missy Elliott song would say, we need to just back it up for a minute. 186 00:10:15,114 --> 00:10:18,868 The fact that we study and teach D. W. Griffith 187 00:10:18,951 --> 00:10:22,788 without saying a word about the representation... 188 00:10:23,164 --> 00:10:25,416 Like, I'm glad I didn't go to film school. 189 00:10:27,043 --> 00:10:29,420 Because if I had seen Birth of a Nation, 190 00:10:29,503 --> 00:10:31,464 when they got to that blackface moment, 191 00:10:31,547 --> 00:10:34,342 when this guy springs up from behind a bush 192 00:10:34,425 --> 00:10:36,010 wanting to rape the white woman, 193 00:10:36,093 --> 00:10:36,927 I... 194 00:10:37,303 --> 00:10:39,722 That would have been it for me at... at film school. 195 00:10:39,805 --> 00:10:41,682 Right? That... that would have been my last day. 196 00:10:42,767 --> 00:10:46,479 Not only is D. W. Griffith incredibly racist, 197 00:10:46,937 --> 00:10:48,648 but he understands 198 00:10:48,731 --> 00:10:53,444 that you can turn gender-nonconforming people 199 00:10:53,527 --> 00:10:56,280 into the joke of your story. 200 00:10:57,406 --> 00:11:00,117 It's like, "Oh, yeah, great, D. W. Griffith, 201 00:11:00,201 --> 00:11:02,203 you, you know, racist piece of shit, 202 00:11:02,286 --> 00:11:05,790 you... you've invented this stereotype in film. Well done." 203 00:11:10,252 --> 00:11:12,463 [Susan] If you look at that early silent film, 204 00:11:12,546 --> 00:11:14,048 A Florida Enchantment, 205 00:11:14,423 --> 00:11:17,301 it foregrounds questions of gender change 206 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,014 and using blackface 207 00:11:22,098 --> 00:11:24,058 while you're using gendered cross-dressing. 208 00:11:24,141 --> 00:11:27,603 You know, just, like, it's these sort of twin fascinations 209 00:11:27,687 --> 00:11:31,232 that, you know, they're always sort of tangled up with each other somehow. 210 00:11:33,317 --> 00:11:35,736 [Brian] It's interesting when you look at things historically. 211 00:11:35,820 --> 00:11:38,197 You know, in terms of transmasculine experience. 212 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,492 Like, you know, first, there's no such vocabulary back in the day of... 213 00:11:41,575 --> 00:11:42,827 of trans anything. 214 00:11:44,453 --> 00:11:46,956 In A Florida Enchantment she eats a seed, and then, like, voilà, 215 00:11:47,039 --> 00:11:48,416 she... she wakes up, she's a man. 216 00:11:48,499 --> 00:11:51,752 And, you know, not only were we looking at gender expression, 217 00:11:52,670 --> 00:11:55,840 but at also the racist expectations. 218 00:11:56,507 --> 00:11:59,510 So, the white person becomes this high-society dandy, 219 00:11:59,593 --> 00:12:01,804 like the ideal of what a man should be, 220 00:12:02,638 --> 00:12:05,099 but then her handmaid is forced to take the seed. 221 00:12:06,183 --> 00:12:08,769 She becomes this aggressive valet who's violent. 222 00:12:09,603 --> 00:12:12,440 And so, even in this gender-transgressive fantasy, 223 00:12:12,523 --> 00:12:15,151 you still have white characters in blackface 224 00:12:15,234 --> 00:12:19,864 playing these horribly fantastical versions of Black people. 225 00:12:22,992 --> 00:12:25,870 [Yance] There are lots of ugly things about our history 226 00:12:26,620 --> 00:12:29,123 that feel like an assault, I think. 227 00:12:31,375 --> 00:12:34,295 But I think we have to know them. I think we have to learn them. 228 00:12:34,628 --> 00:12:36,422 [speaking indistinctly] 229 00:12:36,505 --> 00:12:39,592 [Laverne] There's all sorts of theories around the history 230 00:12:39,675 --> 00:12:44,013 -of Black male comedians doing drag... -[Foxx sniffs] 231 00:12:44,096 --> 00:12:46,056 ...in that needing to be a rite of passage. 232 00:12:46,474 --> 00:12:48,851 Your daddy would want you in this. Try this bitch on. 233 00:12:50,478 --> 00:12:52,688 -I ain't gonna be able to do it, Foxx. -Okay. 234 00:12:53,022 --> 00:12:56,358 Well, I guess you'll just remain the, uh, mid-level comedian, just... 235 00:12:56,567 --> 00:12:58,944 killin' them in the club in the hood, but, uh... 236 00:12:59,361 --> 00:13:01,405 white folk ain't gonna know who the fuck you are. 237 00:13:01,822 --> 00:13:02,948 So be it. 238 00:13:03,908 --> 00:13:07,495 [Laverne] There is a history of Black men in America 239 00:13:07,578 --> 00:13:10,539 -being painted as hyper-masculine... -[woman screaming] 240 00:13:10,623 --> 00:13:13,834 ...and almost predatory in relationship to white womanhood. 241 00:13:13,918 --> 00:13:15,336 Take your hands off the white lady. 242 00:13:15,419 --> 00:13:18,088 And there is a history of emasculating Black men in this country. 243 00:13:18,172 --> 00:13:21,091 Like, a literal history, during slavery and during Jim Crow, 244 00:13:21,175 --> 00:13:23,803 when Black men were lynched, often their genitalia was cut off. 245 00:13:23,886 --> 00:13:28,265 And so, a Black man donning a dress is this emasculating thing. 246 00:13:28,349 --> 00:13:29,725 Oh, no. Wait. 247 00:13:29,809 --> 00:13:31,352 [screams] Where is it? 248 00:13:31,435 --> 00:13:33,604 [Laverne] And I do feel like the relationship 249 00:13:33,687 --> 00:13:37,942 that a lot of Black people have had to me is about that legacy of trauma 250 00:13:38,025 --> 00:13:39,401 -around... -[screams] 251 00:13:39,485 --> 00:13:42,112 ...the historic emasculation of Black men in America. 252 00:13:42,196 --> 00:13:43,739 [audience cheering] 253 00:13:44,406 --> 00:13:47,868 [Laverne] Putting a Black man in a dress, in some people's minds, 254 00:13:47,952 --> 00:13:49,245 takes away the threat. 255 00:13:49,328 --> 00:13:51,038 "Oh, we can laugh now." 256 00:13:53,582 --> 00:13:57,878 I can't think... I can't even tell you how many times I've been in public space, 257 00:13:57,962 --> 00:14:01,298 particularly early in my transition, in New York City, where pe-- 258 00:14:01,382 --> 00:14:05,094 when I would walk into a subway car, and people would just burst into laughter. 259 00:14:05,177 --> 00:14:10,724 As if my existence on that subway car was just a joke. 260 00:14:10,808 --> 00:14:15,604 And I think people are-- have been trained to have that reaction. 261 00:14:16,021 --> 00:14:18,023 [audience laughs, cheers, and applauds] 262 00:14:19,900 --> 00:14:21,819 Hi, Al. It's me, Thad. 263 00:14:21,902 --> 00:14:23,028 [audience laughs] 264 00:14:24,697 --> 00:14:27,157 If I'm not laughing, is it a joke, you know? 265 00:14:29,702 --> 00:14:33,205 It lends itself to this idea that we're just comedy, 266 00:14:33,289 --> 00:14:35,040 that we're just some kind of freaks, 267 00:14:35,124 --> 00:14:38,460 that we just playin' dress up in order to make other people laugh. 268 00:14:38,544 --> 00:14:39,378 Ooh! 269 00:14:39,461 --> 00:14:42,298 [Laverne] These images are so disparaging towards all women. 270 00:14:42,381 --> 00:14:43,465 [screams] 271 00:14:44,133 --> 00:14:46,677 [Laverne] And we see comedians dressing up as women 272 00:14:47,303 --> 00:14:49,013 in order to get a job, in Tootsie... 273 00:14:49,096 --> 00:14:50,222 I'm Edward, Kimberly. 274 00:14:50,723 --> 00:14:53,309 [Laverne] ...or affordable housing, in the case of Bosom Buddies. 275 00:14:54,184 --> 00:14:55,394 Now, just watch me work. 276 00:14:55,811 --> 00:14:56,687 [audience laughs] 277 00:14:56,770 --> 00:15:00,399 [Laverne] These are all real obstacles for actual trans people. 278 00:15:00,482 --> 00:15:01,317 Hello. 279 00:15:01,984 --> 00:15:02,860 Hello. 280 00:15:04,194 --> 00:15:07,740 For me, as a child in the '60s... 281 00:15:07,823 --> 00:15:09,158 [piano playing] 282 00:15:10,242 --> 00:15:13,078 ...I didn't know what trans was. 283 00:15:14,622 --> 00:15:17,291 ♪ We're dressed as ballerinas ♪ 284 00:15:17,541 --> 00:15:20,085 ♪ Of course, you know we're not ♪ 285 00:15:20,169 --> 00:15:21,712 [Bianca] What I knew was, 286 00:15:21,795 --> 00:15:24,423 when I spent time with my brother and my father... 287 00:15:24,798 --> 00:15:25,633 Oh! 288 00:15:26,175 --> 00:15:28,177 [Bianca] ...they laughed at The Three Stooges. 289 00:15:28,969 --> 00:15:30,638 The Three Stooges, really? 290 00:15:31,513 --> 00:15:32,389 I'm a Lucy girl. 291 00:15:34,725 --> 00:15:37,186 So, naturally, when I saw film and television, 292 00:15:37,895 --> 00:15:39,813 I identified with the heroine. 293 00:15:42,149 --> 00:15:45,861 When you're this queer kid in the suburbs, 294 00:15:46,445 --> 00:15:50,240 and you're dying for glamour, 295 00:15:50,324 --> 00:15:52,284 and you're watching Dressed To Kill, 296 00:15:52,368 --> 00:15:54,453 you don't see the misogyny, 297 00:15:54,536 --> 00:15:57,206 you just see beauty in motion and... 298 00:15:57,289 --> 00:15:59,541 [inhales] ...suspense. 299 00:15:59,625 --> 00:16:01,460 And there's this sequence 300 00:16:01,919 --> 00:16:05,673 with Angie Dickinson wearing all creams, 301 00:16:06,131 --> 00:16:08,884 and she's got her beige Isotoners on, 302 00:16:08,968 --> 00:16:10,469 and just looking breathtaking. 303 00:16:13,472 --> 00:16:16,850 She sees this hot guy, and she's gonna pick him up. 304 00:16:16,934 --> 00:16:19,395 She's very unhappy with her husband. 305 00:16:22,022 --> 00:16:23,857 And then she gets on the elevator... 306 00:16:25,818 --> 00:16:27,194 and suddenly... 307 00:16:27,277 --> 00:16:29,029 [suspenseful music plays] 308 00:16:29,113 --> 00:16:30,197 [gasps] 309 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,491 -...there's Michael Caine... -[screaming] 310 00:16:32,574 --> 00:16:34,243 ...in a Shake-N-Go wig... 311 00:16:34,868 --> 00:16:38,080 [laughing] ...and big sunglasses, and a trench coat... 312 00:16:38,539 --> 00:16:39,581 [whimpering] Oh, no. 313 00:16:39,665 --> 00:16:40,666 Oh... 314 00:16:40,749 --> 00:16:41,750 No! 315 00:16:42,251 --> 00:16:43,419 ...and murders her. 316 00:16:46,463 --> 00:16:48,882 We look at that now, and we say, "This is atrocious," 317 00:16:50,592 --> 00:16:54,013 but when I was a kid, it was like, "I'm Angie Dickinson. That's me. 318 00:16:54,096 --> 00:16:54,930 That's what... 319 00:16:55,848 --> 00:16:57,307 I don't know what the fuck." 320 00:16:58,767 --> 00:17:00,185 [dramatic music playing] 321 00:17:00,269 --> 00:17:02,938 For decades, Hollywood has taught audiences 322 00:17:03,022 --> 00:17:05,315 how to react to trans people. 323 00:17:05,733 --> 00:17:07,067 [man] Oh, my God, no. 324 00:17:07,526 --> 00:17:10,362 [pants] You've been a broad all along, right, Barzell? 325 00:17:10,446 --> 00:17:11,864 A goddamn broad? 326 00:17:11,947 --> 00:17:14,283 A goddamn ugly broad, Barzell! 327 00:17:14,366 --> 00:17:18,162 And sometimes, they're being taught that the way to react to us is fear. 328 00:17:18,245 --> 00:17:19,204 [man laughing] 329 00:17:19,621 --> 00:17:21,290 No, Ronnie! No! [screams] 330 00:17:21,373 --> 00:17:23,542 [Nick] That we're dangerous, that were psychopaths, 331 00:17:23,625 --> 00:17:27,087 that we're serial killers, that we must be deviants or perverts. 332 00:17:27,171 --> 00:17:28,630 [screams] 333 00:17:29,131 --> 00:17:31,341 [Nick] Why else would you wear a dress if you're a man? 334 00:17:33,677 --> 00:17:35,512 [Laverne] Alfred Hitchcock seems to be obsessed 335 00:17:35,596 --> 00:17:38,182 with people who traverse gender stereotypes 336 00:17:38,265 --> 00:17:40,017 being... murderers. 337 00:17:40,642 --> 00:17:41,477 [woman screams] 338 00:17:42,394 --> 00:17:43,520 [audience screaming] 339 00:17:45,898 --> 00:17:47,357 What's going on, Alfred? 340 00:17:47,900 --> 00:17:48,859 From the grave. 341 00:17:49,735 --> 00:17:50,778 Talk to us. 342 00:17:51,904 --> 00:17:55,282 Do you know why he's called "Buffalo Bill"? 343 00:17:55,365 --> 00:17:58,118 Please tell me. The newspapers won't say. 344 00:17:59,870 --> 00:18:03,248 Well, it started as a bad joke in Kansas City homicide. They said... 345 00:18:04,166 --> 00:18:06,126 "This one likes to skin his humps." 346 00:18:06,627 --> 00:18:08,837 Okay, I love Silence of the Lambs. I'm sorry. 347 00:18:08,921 --> 00:18:12,007 It's a great film, and it's a great book. I know it's problematic. 348 00:18:12,091 --> 00:18:15,344 -["Goodbye Horses" playing on stereo] -♪ Goodbye, horses ♪ 349 00:18:15,427 --> 00:18:17,137 [sobbing] 350 00:18:17,221 --> 00:18:20,015 [Bianca] But watching that, and Jodie Foster says: 351 00:18:20,099 --> 00:18:23,310 There's no correlation in the literature between transsexualism and violence. 352 00:18:23,393 --> 00:18:24,770 Transsexuals are very passive. 353 00:18:24,853 --> 00:18:27,314 It's like, okay, so you get that this is not... 354 00:18:28,065 --> 00:18:29,733 a transsexual, a trans person. 355 00:18:29,817 --> 00:18:30,692 You get that. 356 00:18:31,401 --> 00:18:33,278 Yeah, but we're not passive. 357 00:18:33,362 --> 00:18:37,199 Like, why can't you just say we're not psychopathic murderers? 358 00:18:37,282 --> 00:18:38,700 We're not serial killers. 359 00:18:39,451 --> 00:18:41,036 We don't do that shit. 360 00:18:42,079 --> 00:18:43,497 Jodie. [sighs] 361 00:18:44,248 --> 00:18:47,084 -[dog growls, whimpering] -It rubs the lotion on its skin. 362 00:18:47,167 --> 00:18:49,670 -It does this whenever it's told. -[woman panting] 363 00:18:50,087 --> 00:18:51,839 Mister, my family'll pay cash. 364 00:18:51,922 --> 00:18:54,967 Whatever ransom you're askin' for, they'll pay it. 365 00:18:55,634 --> 00:18:57,719 [Jen] I was about to go through transition, 366 00:18:57,803 --> 00:19:01,265 and I worked up the courage to tell one of my colleagues, 367 00:19:01,348 --> 00:19:04,893 and she's a very, very smart woman, very, very talented musician, 368 00:19:04,977 --> 00:19:06,895 very well-educated, very worldly, 369 00:19:07,187 --> 00:19:09,481 and she looked at me and goes, "You mean like Buffalo Bill?" 370 00:19:11,984 --> 00:19:14,027 Like, her only point of reference 371 00:19:14,111 --> 00:19:19,283 was this disgusting, psychotic serial killer 372 00:19:19,366 --> 00:19:22,828 who hunts women in order to kill them and skin them 373 00:19:22,911 --> 00:19:26,665 in order to wear their bodies, to literally appropriate the female form, 374 00:19:26,748 --> 00:19:29,001 which is exactly, like, the feminist, like, argument 375 00:19:29,084 --> 00:19:30,502 against the existence of trans women 376 00:19:30,586 --> 00:19:32,379 is we're trying to appropriate the female form, 377 00:19:32,462 --> 00:19:34,798 and here he was doing it literally, physically. 378 00:19:35,299 --> 00:19:37,509 [woman] Why won't you answer me? Please! 379 00:19:37,968 --> 00:19:39,678 And, you know, she regrets it now. 380 00:19:39,761 --> 00:19:41,930 She looks back, and she's horrified that she said that, 381 00:19:42,014 --> 00:19:43,515 because she knows trans people now, 382 00:19:43,599 --> 00:19:45,809 and she knows the issues, and she knows me. 383 00:19:46,185 --> 00:19:48,520 But the fact that that was her only reference point, 384 00:19:48,604 --> 00:19:51,356 that that was her only template for understanding, 385 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:55,485 was a sick, psychotic serial killer. 386 00:19:57,279 --> 00:19:59,406 It hurts. It just hurts. 387 00:20:02,034 --> 00:20:05,162 [singing "Un bel dì vedremo"] 388 00:20:10,626 --> 00:20:12,711 [Rain] As a young trans woman, 389 00:20:12,794 --> 00:20:15,297 when people would get to know me, 390 00:20:16,548 --> 00:20:18,175 one of their questions was, 391 00:20:18,717 --> 00:20:20,719 "Have you seen M. Butterfly?" 392 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,223 And I was always just like... 393 00:20:25,724 --> 00:20:26,600 René... 394 00:20:27,643 --> 00:20:29,686 please let me keep my clothes on. 395 00:20:30,229 --> 00:20:36,777 [Rain] I kind of clocked it as this spy pretending to be this woman. 396 00:20:38,070 --> 00:20:40,322 But it was just one of those things where you're just like, 397 00:20:40,405 --> 00:20:42,741 "Why am I being asked about M. Butterfly?" 398 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:44,034 Look at me. 399 00:20:45,118 --> 00:20:46,787 [Rain] Is it because I'm Asian? 400 00:20:50,082 --> 00:20:53,460 You're looking at the Asian-American trans representation. 401 00:20:54,044 --> 00:20:55,295 There-- There isn't any. 402 00:20:56,588 --> 00:20:59,925 [Laverne] According to a study from GLAAD, 80 percent of Americans 403 00:21:00,008 --> 00:21:03,387 don't actually personally know someone who is transgender. 404 00:21:03,470 --> 00:21:06,390 So most of the information that Americans get 405 00:21:06,473 --> 00:21:10,769 about who transgender people are, what our lives are and are about, 406 00:21:10,852 --> 00:21:12,312 comes from the media. 407 00:21:12,396 --> 00:21:14,189 [angrily] Why can't you be a man? 408 00:21:14,273 --> 00:21:17,025 [Nick] Trans people have also been taught how to think about themselves. 409 00:21:17,109 --> 00:21:21,113 We're not raised, usually, in a family where other trans people are around us, 410 00:21:21,196 --> 00:21:23,365 so when we're trying to figure out who we are, 411 00:21:23,448 --> 00:21:25,409 we look to the media to try to figure it out, 412 00:21:25,492 --> 00:21:27,369 because just like the 80 percent of Americans 413 00:21:27,452 --> 00:21:29,162 who say they don't know a trans person, 414 00:21:29,246 --> 00:21:30,956 that's often true of trans people as well. 415 00:21:31,039 --> 00:21:33,333 We don't know a trans person when figuring out who we are, 416 00:21:33,417 --> 00:21:36,712 so we're looking to the media, to figure out, like, "Who's like us?" 417 00:21:40,924 --> 00:21:42,843 I was really excited when The L Word said 418 00:21:42,926 --> 00:21:46,305 they were gonna bring a transmasculine character onto the show. 419 00:21:46,388 --> 00:21:48,849 Trans men were a part of the lesbian community, 420 00:21:48,932 --> 00:21:50,017 and it seemed awesome. 421 00:21:53,103 --> 00:21:56,231 [Zeke] Max is the first recurring 422 00:21:56,815 --> 00:22:00,068 transmasculine character on a television series. 423 00:22:00,652 --> 00:22:01,862 Are you doing hormones? 424 00:22:02,654 --> 00:22:03,530 No. 425 00:22:04,531 --> 00:22:05,449 Not yet. 426 00:22:06,283 --> 00:22:08,910 Then, Max starts testosterone. 427 00:22:09,411 --> 00:22:10,620 Hey, don't do that. 428 00:22:10,704 --> 00:22:11,955 -Stop that. -Delete it. 429 00:22:12,039 --> 00:22:14,541 Don't touch my fucking computer. Stop it. 430 00:22:14,624 --> 00:22:15,459 Hey! Don't touch-- 431 00:22:15,542 --> 00:22:18,462 [Zeke] And Max goes from being nice and likable 432 00:22:18,545 --> 00:22:19,755 to a raging a-hole. 433 00:22:19,838 --> 00:22:22,758 You're my girlfriend, and this is my party. 434 00:22:23,633 --> 00:22:25,510 You shouldn't be dancing with some other dude. 435 00:22:25,594 --> 00:22:28,263 I'm gonna dance with whoever the fuck I wanna dance with. 436 00:22:28,347 --> 00:22:31,350 You notice that, like, "Oh, yeah, I'm definitely... I'm more frustrated." 437 00:22:32,392 --> 00:22:33,894 But to that level... 438 00:22:33,977 --> 00:22:36,772 It's the testosterone. It, like, amps me up. 439 00:22:36,855 --> 00:22:38,899 It paints it in a bad light. 440 00:22:38,982 --> 00:22:42,277 I feel like, if I didn't work out, I'd wanna break someone's face. 441 00:22:42,361 --> 00:22:43,278 [grunting] 442 00:22:43,362 --> 00:22:46,865 [Brian] As somebody who was transitioning at the time of this show, 443 00:22:47,324 --> 00:22:49,701 that was problematic for me... [laughing] 444 00:22:49,785 --> 00:22:53,413 ...uh, because The L Word is a lesbian show... 445 00:22:53,497 --> 00:22:57,876 It just saddens me to see so many of our strong butch girls 446 00:22:57,959 --> 00:22:59,961 giving up their womanhood to be a man. 447 00:23:00,504 --> 00:23:04,591 ...and so, they're looking at trans people through a lesbian lens. 448 00:23:05,092 --> 00:23:09,888 Why can't you be the butchest butch in the world and keep your body? 449 00:23:10,555 --> 00:23:12,015 Because I wanna feel whole. 450 00:23:13,225 --> 00:23:15,727 I want the outside of me to match the inside of me. 451 00:23:17,521 --> 00:23:19,981 You'll be givin' up the most precious thing in the world. 452 00:23:21,233 --> 00:23:22,275 What, my tits? 453 00:23:23,443 --> 00:23:25,445 No, being a woman. 454 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,325 [Brian] I think that best encapsulates 455 00:23:30,784 --> 00:23:34,079 the writers and producers of The L Word's approach to Max, 456 00:23:34,162 --> 00:23:38,208 is that they are seeing trans men increasingly enter the lesbian community 457 00:23:38,708 --> 00:23:41,128 and that they are traitors to feminism. 458 00:23:41,211 --> 00:23:43,213 Does that mean... Have I got the job? 459 00:23:43,296 --> 00:23:45,966 Welcome aboard, Max. Welcome to Intechmode. 460 00:23:46,049 --> 00:23:47,426 Wow. Thanks, man. 461 00:23:47,509 --> 00:23:49,177 [Zeke] We're not supposed to root for Max. 462 00:23:49,261 --> 00:23:50,637 Whoa, that's exciting. 463 00:23:51,138 --> 00:23:52,889 We're supposed to root against Max. 464 00:23:53,890 --> 00:23:57,436 Are you gonna sell out and start sleeping with the enemy? 465 00:23:58,103 --> 00:23:59,688 [Leo] How it made people feel 466 00:24:00,105 --> 00:24:01,356 is a part of our history. 467 00:24:02,149 --> 00:24:03,442 What we've learned from it 468 00:24:03,525 --> 00:24:07,612 and how we portray trans characters now... from now on 469 00:24:08,530 --> 00:24:11,074 has-- is, in a big part, due to Max. 470 00:24:12,784 --> 00:24:17,247 [Jen] There is a one-word solution to almost all the problems in trans media. 471 00:24:18,206 --> 00:24:19,458 We just need more, 472 00:24:19,541 --> 00:24:22,794 and that way, the occasional clumsy representation 473 00:24:22,878 --> 00:24:26,047 wouldn't matter as much because it wouldn't be all that there is. 474 00:24:26,506 --> 00:24:28,633 You wanna know about my childhood? Okay. 475 00:24:28,717 --> 00:24:30,135 I had no friends, all right? 476 00:24:30,218 --> 00:24:32,846 I wore too much makeup. All the kids around me thought I was evil. 477 00:24:32,929 --> 00:24:34,431 Now look at me! Nurse Nan. 478 00:24:34,514 --> 00:24:36,600 David, I cannot be the villain forever. 479 00:24:36,683 --> 00:24:40,729 My family and I would always watch movies together. 480 00:24:40,812 --> 00:24:41,813 [man] Doctor! 481 00:24:42,647 --> 00:24:45,233 [Rain] We were watching Soapdish... 482 00:24:45,317 --> 00:24:47,235 This is Dr. Franz Blau 483 00:24:47,319 --> 00:24:50,238 of the sex-change clinic in Bethesda, Maryland. 484 00:24:50,322 --> 00:24:52,449 ...but once we got to the end... 485 00:24:52,532 --> 00:24:55,160 Before she came to our little clinic, 486 00:24:55,619 --> 00:24:56,745 she was... 487 00:24:57,704 --> 00:25:01,416 Milton Moorehead of Syosset, Long Island. 488 00:25:01,791 --> 00:25:02,626 Hello. 489 00:25:05,587 --> 00:25:07,339 [screams] No! 490 00:25:07,672 --> 00:25:11,551 ...my family got really quiet... 491 00:25:12,219 --> 00:25:14,095 [Montana] No! 492 00:25:14,554 --> 00:25:16,890 [Rain] ...because it gave them a confirmation 493 00:25:16,973 --> 00:25:19,893 that if I chose a certain life... 494 00:25:20,310 --> 00:25:21,478 She's a boy. 495 00:25:22,521 --> 00:25:24,189 [Rain] ...I would be the bad guy. 496 00:25:24,606 --> 00:25:26,149 Yeah, well we knew that. 497 00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:27,776 [Rain] Or... 498 00:25:28,235 --> 00:25:29,694 I wouldn't be loved. 499 00:25:31,696 --> 00:25:34,241 I was seven or eight at the time, and... 500 00:25:34,741 --> 00:25:35,784 [sighs] 501 00:25:40,914 --> 00:25:44,793 And we never really talked about it after that, but... 502 00:25:47,546 --> 00:25:50,549 I remember the next day, my mom would try to... 503 00:25:51,049 --> 00:25:55,136 get me to wear more masculine clothes. 504 00:25:55,220 --> 00:25:57,389 [crying] It's what I am. 505 00:25:57,472 --> 00:25:59,683 [yelling] What's this between your legs, huh? 506 00:26:00,141 --> 00:26:01,518 Tell me, lady! 507 00:26:03,478 --> 00:26:04,521 [inhales deeply] 508 00:26:04,604 --> 00:26:05,981 It's an accident. 509 00:26:06,064 --> 00:26:08,066 If I had the courage, I'd cut it off. 510 00:26:08,149 --> 00:26:09,484 You'd still be a man. 511 00:26:09,568 --> 00:26:10,902 -A man! -No! 512 00:26:10,986 --> 00:26:14,239 [Laverne] When you are a member of a marginalized community, 513 00:26:14,322 --> 00:26:19,286 most of the film and television is not made with you in mind. 514 00:26:19,703 --> 00:26:22,998 And so, if you are a person of color, an LGBTQ person, 515 00:26:23,081 --> 00:26:24,374 a person who's an immigrant, 516 00:26:24,457 --> 00:26:26,293 um, a person with a disability, 517 00:26:26,376 --> 00:26:30,505 you develop a critical awareness because you understand 518 00:26:30,589 --> 00:26:33,341 that the images that you're seeing are not your life. 519 00:26:34,801 --> 00:26:36,052 Forgive me, Papa. 520 00:26:37,596 --> 00:26:38,847 [carriage approaching] 521 00:26:40,765 --> 00:26:41,600 Wait! 522 00:26:42,517 --> 00:26:43,852 -Wait! -[Laverne giggles] 523 00:26:43,935 --> 00:26:47,355 I giggle 'cause it's like, I'm a Black trans girl from Alabama, 524 00:26:47,439 --> 00:26:48,982 and, like, I live for Yentl. 525 00:26:49,065 --> 00:26:50,066 Um... 526 00:26:50,150 --> 00:26:53,361 [laughing] I don't know if I'm the target audience for... for Yentl. 527 00:26:53,445 --> 00:26:55,113 Welcome to our yeshiva. 528 00:26:56,072 --> 00:26:56,906 I'm accepted? 529 00:26:56,990 --> 00:27:00,076 [Laverne] I was young when I saw it, and it embodied so many of my longings 530 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:01,536 to be seen for who I was, 531 00:27:01,620 --> 00:27:04,331 but needing to fit in in a traditional way, 532 00:27:04,414 --> 00:27:06,875 to, sort of, get by at the time. 533 00:27:06,958 --> 00:27:10,795 I mean, the song "Will Someone Ever Look At Me That Way?" was, like, my jam. 534 00:27:10,879 --> 00:27:13,340 ♪ Look at how he looks at her ♪ 535 00:27:13,423 --> 00:27:20,388 ♪ Will someone ever look at me that way? ♪ 536 00:27:23,224 --> 00:27:25,393 [Laverne] I connected to that because I was a girl 537 00:27:25,477 --> 00:27:29,522 that no one saw as a girl at the time. 538 00:27:34,069 --> 00:27:37,197 And now someone has looked at me that way. [laughs] 539 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,032 And also Victor/Victoria. 540 00:27:39,115 --> 00:27:42,160 A woman pretending to be a man pretending to be a woman? 541 00:27:42,243 --> 00:27:44,079 -Ridiculous. -It's-- It's preposterous. 542 00:27:44,162 --> 00:27:46,498 In fact, it's so preposterous, no one would ever believe it. 543 00:27:46,581 --> 00:27:48,750 [Nick] In 1982, I graduated from high school, 544 00:27:48,833 --> 00:27:52,504 and that was the year Yentl came out, Victor/Victoria came out. 545 00:27:52,587 --> 00:27:53,713 [singing] 546 00:27:54,964 --> 00:27:58,218 [Nick] And I saw those movies so many times. 547 00:27:58,301 --> 00:28:02,055 [audience applauds, gasps] 548 00:28:02,138 --> 00:28:03,264 -[cheering] -It's a guy. 549 00:28:03,807 --> 00:28:05,183 Yay! 550 00:28:05,266 --> 00:28:06,976 [Nick] For whatever reason, we are creatures 551 00:28:07,060 --> 00:28:09,479 who want to see our stories reflected back to us, 552 00:28:09,562 --> 00:28:12,607 starting with cave paintings to 3D IMAX. 553 00:28:12,691 --> 00:28:15,694 We want to see ourselves reflected back to us in a story. 554 00:28:15,777 --> 00:28:17,904 -[woman] Adam Torres. -[Nick] The problem with trans men 555 00:28:17,987 --> 00:28:19,781 is they've largely been invisible in the media... 556 00:28:20,198 --> 00:28:22,617 ♪ Let's just breathe ♪ 557 00:28:22,701 --> 00:28:25,995 [Nick] ...and we're only recently starting to see portrayals of non-binary people. 558 00:28:26,079 --> 00:28:29,374 -My pronouns are they, theirs, and them. -Okay. 559 00:28:29,457 --> 00:28:32,127 And certainly, being invisible is a privilege 560 00:28:32,210 --> 00:28:34,379 compared to the type of transphobia 561 00:28:34,462 --> 00:28:37,340 that has been written into trans women characters. 562 00:28:37,424 --> 00:28:38,425 I'm a married man. 563 00:28:38,508 --> 00:28:39,426 So am I. 564 00:28:39,509 --> 00:28:40,802 [group laughs] 565 00:28:40,885 --> 00:28:42,721 [Nick] But I work with a lot of trans boys, 566 00:28:42,804 --> 00:28:46,474 and when they look to the screen to see themselves reflected back, 567 00:28:46,933 --> 00:28:48,184 they see almost nothing. 568 00:28:48,601 --> 00:28:49,769 [boy] Hurry up! 569 00:28:49,853 --> 00:28:51,104 All right. 570 00:28:51,187 --> 00:28:53,940 [Elliot] My parents used to call me Scout 571 00:28:54,399 --> 00:28:56,234 because of To Kill a Mockingbird. 572 00:28:57,068 --> 00:28:59,070 [upbeat music plays] 573 00:29:01,614 --> 00:29:04,492 I resonated with tomboys 574 00:29:04,576 --> 00:29:08,288 because I didn't think that there was another option. 575 00:29:08,371 --> 00:29:11,124 So I was like, "Oh, that's... Yeah, I get that." 576 00:29:14,085 --> 00:29:15,545 [Brian] I was born in the early '80s, 577 00:29:15,628 --> 00:29:18,757 so a lot of what I understood about the world 578 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,760 was coming to me through TV and films. 579 00:29:21,843 --> 00:29:25,138 Like, Just One Of The Guys was something that would come on TV on Saturdays. 580 00:29:25,221 --> 00:29:27,766 -Who do you think you are? Tootsie? -No. 581 00:29:28,433 --> 00:29:29,559 Okay, Yentl. 582 00:29:30,268 --> 00:29:31,644 What do you want to be? A rabbi? 583 00:29:31,728 --> 00:29:33,897 [Tiq] Oh, my God, I remember seeing Just One Of The Guys 584 00:29:33,980 --> 00:29:35,398 when I was really, really little. 585 00:29:35,482 --> 00:29:37,901 She decides to pretend to be a boy 586 00:29:37,984 --> 00:29:40,904 so that, you know, her writing can be taken seriously. 587 00:29:40,987 --> 00:29:42,822 You're a pretty girl. You could be a model. 588 00:29:42,906 --> 00:29:43,948 Be a model? 589 00:29:44,657 --> 00:29:47,452 Why? Because a pretty girl can't possibly have a brain? 590 00:29:47,535 --> 00:29:49,412 They played with this idea of transness 591 00:29:49,871 --> 00:29:51,456 as a way of occupying a space 592 00:29:51,539 --> 00:29:53,291 that you necessarily aren't supposed to have. 593 00:29:57,003 --> 00:29:59,756 [Brian] When I saw that, part of me was, like, very excited. 594 00:29:59,839 --> 00:30:01,925 In my imagination, like, "That would be... Yes! 595 00:30:02,008 --> 00:30:05,011 New haircut, got some jeans, got the cool backpack. 596 00:30:05,094 --> 00:30:06,930 All the friends wanna hang out with this cool... 597 00:30:07,013 --> 00:30:10,517 But when I fall in love, I better hurry up and become a girl again." 598 00:30:11,392 --> 00:30:14,229 -I'm not what you think. -[scoffs] What does that mean? 599 00:30:14,646 --> 00:30:15,772 [laughs] 600 00:30:15,855 --> 00:30:17,899 [laughs] It's a very long story. 601 00:30:18,817 --> 00:30:21,528 And all the conflict is coming because of the lie. 602 00:30:21,611 --> 00:30:22,654 You're gay. 603 00:30:23,196 --> 00:30:24,155 [scoffs] 604 00:30:24,239 --> 00:30:25,448 I'm not gay. 605 00:30:25,532 --> 00:30:28,117 Instead of just having a conversation... 606 00:30:28,201 --> 00:30:29,953 [laughs] ...like a person, 607 00:30:30,578 --> 00:30:33,039 "Hey, listen. I gotta tell you, this is what I'm doin'," 608 00:30:33,122 --> 00:30:34,457 it's like, "I have tits." 609 00:30:35,834 --> 00:30:37,418 Where do you get off having tits? 610 00:30:38,711 --> 00:30:39,587 [gasps] 611 00:30:42,340 --> 00:30:43,424 What are you, a demon? 612 00:30:43,508 --> 00:30:46,094 [screams] He's a woman! 613 00:30:46,177 --> 00:30:50,598 [laughs] I nev-- I never quite could wrap my mind around 614 00:30:50,974 --> 00:30:53,017 why they thought that was the way to go. 615 00:30:53,101 --> 00:30:54,352 Come on, blue. Let's play ball. 616 00:30:55,186 --> 00:30:58,147 [Brian] So it's really a women's empowerment message 617 00:30:58,690 --> 00:31:01,317 packaged in a transmasculine experience, 618 00:31:01,401 --> 00:31:03,069 which is so invalidating. 619 00:31:03,152 --> 00:31:04,571 [man] He's a transsexual. 620 00:31:05,196 --> 00:31:07,198 He's a goddamn girl. 621 00:31:09,158 --> 00:31:12,787 I remember specifically seeing the Jerry Springer episode with Reno. 622 00:31:13,788 --> 00:31:16,875 Child, Reno was on Jerry Springer, 623 00:31:16,958 --> 00:31:20,211 comes out, you know, this beautiful little Black guy. 624 00:31:20,295 --> 00:31:23,798 He's out there with his girlfriend. He's like, "I got something to tell you." 625 00:31:25,049 --> 00:31:26,593 I'm a girl. 626 00:31:27,343 --> 00:31:29,512 -[audience gasping] -[laughs] 627 00:31:30,638 --> 00:31:33,016 It... That just... That blew my mind. 628 00:31:33,099 --> 00:31:34,309 [girlfriend] You are a girl? 629 00:31:35,143 --> 00:31:36,603 -This is a girl? -"This"? 630 00:31:37,312 --> 00:31:40,273 What you mean, "this"? You don't got no reason to disrespect me on this show. 631 00:31:40,356 --> 00:31:42,525 [Marquise] Not only was Reno the first time that I saw 632 00:31:42,609 --> 00:31:44,444 someone transmasculine on television, 633 00:31:44,986 --> 00:31:48,114 it was the first time, clearly, that I was seeing somebody Black 634 00:31:48,197 --> 00:31:50,199 and transmasculine on television. 635 00:31:50,283 --> 00:31:52,035 What do you call yourself, a trans...? 636 00:31:52,368 --> 00:31:53,661 -Transgender. -[girlfriend] That. 637 00:31:53,745 --> 00:31:56,289 [Marquise] At that point, I'm high school age 638 00:31:56,372 --> 00:31:59,250 and in and out of the shelter system. 639 00:31:59,334 --> 00:32:01,002 I'm couch surfing. 640 00:32:01,085 --> 00:32:04,839 Typical Black queer trans stuff in New York City. 641 00:32:05,590 --> 00:32:06,716 And... 642 00:32:06,799 --> 00:32:08,801 I don't even believe 643 00:32:08,885 --> 00:32:11,679 that someone like me really exists, 644 00:32:11,763 --> 00:32:14,849 so to see this image, you know, in front of me on TV, 645 00:32:14,933 --> 00:32:17,143 I mean, it-- it really was empowering. 646 00:32:19,687 --> 00:32:22,523 I think we don't see as much representation of trans men 647 00:32:22,607 --> 00:32:23,983 as we do trans women 648 00:32:24,067 --> 00:32:26,653 because people don't think trans men are as sensational. 649 00:32:26,736 --> 00:32:29,155 I'm a proud trans man, Dr. Bailey, 650 00:32:29,238 --> 00:32:30,907 but I like for people to get to know me 651 00:32:30,990 --> 00:32:33,660 before they find out my private medical history. 652 00:32:34,285 --> 00:32:35,119 Of course. 653 00:32:35,203 --> 00:32:38,748 I think, also, trans men are not as recognizable. 654 00:32:39,332 --> 00:32:41,918 [Donald Trump] ...that America must put its own citizens first. 655 00:32:42,001 --> 00:32:45,171 [Brian] There's this idea that people... they don't know any trans men, 656 00:32:45,254 --> 00:32:50,802 or that they don't really exist because people don't visibly see them. 657 00:32:50,885 --> 00:32:54,263 Testosterone. You can't just pack it up and put it in a drawer. 658 00:32:54,347 --> 00:32:55,556 You feel me? [laughs] 659 00:32:56,057 --> 00:32:57,433 Well, actually, you can, 660 00:32:57,517 --> 00:32:59,978 as long as it's not past its expiration date. 661 00:33:01,437 --> 00:33:04,190 Trans women vastly outnumber trans men 662 00:33:04,273 --> 00:33:06,985 in terms of depictions and portrayals in the media, 663 00:33:07,276 --> 00:33:10,697 uh, even though the numbers, the actual numbers, of real trans people 664 00:33:10,780 --> 00:33:12,532 are pretty evenly split between men and women, 665 00:33:12,615 --> 00:33:13,825 just like with cis people, 666 00:33:13,908 --> 00:33:16,035 but we see far more depictions of trans women. 667 00:33:16,577 --> 00:33:20,289 And, of course, that's partly because women overall, 668 00:33:20,373 --> 00:33:25,336 therefore including trans women, are a more commodifiable asset. 669 00:33:27,088 --> 00:33:31,426 I was so viciously harassed on the streets of New York 670 00:33:31,509 --> 00:33:32,802 early in my transition, 671 00:33:32,885 --> 00:33:34,721 and I would arm myself. 672 00:33:34,804 --> 00:33:35,847 It was warpaint, 673 00:33:35,930 --> 00:33:40,810 going out into the world and just wanting to feel at my very best 674 00:33:41,227 --> 00:33:43,271 because I knew I would be misgendered, 675 00:33:43,354 --> 00:33:46,649 I knew that I would immediately feel unsafe just walking down the street, 676 00:33:46,733 --> 00:33:48,484 and that was certainly the case. 677 00:33:48,568 --> 00:33:52,613 And so, um, I armored myself, and makeup was a way to do that. 678 00:33:52,697 --> 00:33:55,742 ["You Make Me Feel (Mighty Real)" playing] 679 00:33:55,825 --> 00:33:58,745 I think that one woman's armor 680 00:33:58,828 --> 00:34:01,247 becomes another woman's adornment 681 00:34:01,330 --> 00:34:04,667 in the sense that a kind of Kardashian aesthetic, 682 00:34:04,751 --> 00:34:07,003 this hyper-feminine, plump lips, 683 00:34:07,086 --> 00:34:08,838 the big hair, the extensions 684 00:34:08,921 --> 00:34:11,132 the silicone-injected curves of the body, 685 00:34:11,215 --> 00:34:14,677 in some ways, might be a reflection 686 00:34:14,761 --> 00:34:18,097 of a change in aesthetics that comes out of the kind of gay men 687 00:34:18,181 --> 00:34:21,017 who are often doing the styling for celebrities. 688 00:34:21,100 --> 00:34:24,812 ♪ You mean I've been dancin' On the floor, darlin' ♪ 689 00:34:24,896 --> 00:34:27,899 [Jen] And that, for them, it comes out of the street queens 690 00:34:27,982 --> 00:34:29,901 that they know from the clubs. 691 00:34:30,318 --> 00:34:33,362 And for them, it comes out of, ultimately, the sex workers, 692 00:34:33,446 --> 00:34:36,491 who have to hyper-feminize their body 693 00:34:36,574 --> 00:34:38,826 in order to compete for clients 694 00:34:38,910 --> 00:34:40,119 in order to survive. 695 00:34:40,203 --> 00:34:41,079 [woman] Now turn. 696 00:34:41,162 --> 00:34:45,416 [Jen] And, of course, they're then imitating an older version of femininity 697 00:34:45,500 --> 00:34:48,044 that they learned that men like, you know, from movies and TV, 698 00:34:48,127 --> 00:34:49,879 and it kind of creates this ultimate cycle. 699 00:34:51,297 --> 00:34:56,803 But a lot of people will look at trans women's performance of femininity 700 00:34:57,178 --> 00:35:00,723 and see it as somehow reinforcing 701 00:35:00,807 --> 00:35:04,477 the worst patriarchal stereotypes of women, 702 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,648 and I think it's really unfair and ahistorical 703 00:35:08,731 --> 00:35:13,528 to foist that same perspective on people who are just trying to survive. 704 00:35:16,197 --> 00:35:19,700 Cute little old man, if you want a boy, I can be a boy. 705 00:35:19,784 --> 00:35:23,037 And if you want a girl, I can be a girl. Hell, I can be whatever you want me to be. 706 00:35:23,121 --> 00:35:24,122 Really? 707 00:35:24,205 --> 00:35:25,331 [laughs] 708 00:35:25,414 --> 00:35:29,001 I've been a prostitute, Prostitute 1, Prostitute 2, call girl, hooker, you know? 709 00:35:29,919 --> 00:35:32,588 This is kind of embarrassing to say, but I'm a virgin too. 710 00:35:32,672 --> 00:35:35,091 And your friends thought that we might like each other. 711 00:35:35,174 --> 00:35:37,093 -You're a virgin? -[prostitute] Mm-hmm. 712 00:35:37,677 --> 00:35:38,886 [sighs] You know what? 713 00:35:39,470 --> 00:35:42,682 I think... that you are not a virgin. 714 00:35:43,558 --> 00:35:46,227 And I think you're a prostitute. 715 00:35:46,310 --> 00:35:48,187 [Jazzmun laughs] But, um... 716 00:35:49,313 --> 00:35:51,732 um, at the same time... 717 00:35:53,067 --> 00:35:56,445 uh, at... at a point, I felt limited. 718 00:35:56,821 --> 00:35:59,240 I felt like, "Okay, what's next?" 719 00:35:59,615 --> 00:36:02,410 Is there anything next, for me personally? 720 00:36:02,493 --> 00:36:05,496 GLAAD took a look at 134 episodes of television 721 00:36:05,580 --> 00:36:07,331 where a transgender character was brought on 722 00:36:07,415 --> 00:36:09,041 just to be a guest star character, 723 00:36:09,125 --> 00:36:12,795 and what we found in those portrayals was that the most common profession 724 00:36:12,879 --> 00:36:15,298 shown for a transgender character was sex worker. 725 00:36:17,884 --> 00:36:19,177 What, you wanna suck my dick now? 726 00:36:19,969 --> 00:36:21,095 What? 727 00:36:21,179 --> 00:36:22,638 You want me to take mine out? 728 00:36:23,097 --> 00:36:24,682 You wanna put it in your mouth? 729 00:36:25,183 --> 00:36:28,644 It is true that in the real world, many transgender women, particularly, 730 00:36:28,728 --> 00:36:29,937 are pushed into sex work 731 00:36:30,021 --> 00:36:32,690 because of the employment discrimination that transgender people face. 732 00:36:32,773 --> 00:36:34,442 The unemployment rate for transgender people 733 00:36:34,525 --> 00:36:35,943 is three times the national average, 734 00:36:36,027 --> 00:36:38,696 and four times the national average if you're a trans person of color. 735 00:36:39,322 --> 00:36:41,240 So there are contextual and social reasons 736 00:36:41,324 --> 00:36:44,243 why some trans women are engaging in sex work, 737 00:36:44,327 --> 00:36:48,080 but when it's shown on television, and no explanation is given as to why, 738 00:36:48,164 --> 00:36:49,999 because it's just what trans women do. 739 00:36:50,082 --> 00:36:53,169 I told him, "You better get that thing out of my ass, 740 00:36:53,252 --> 00:36:55,713 or I'm gonna shit on it!" 741 00:36:55,796 --> 00:36:57,215 [group laughing] 742 00:36:57,298 --> 00:36:59,342 I... I am paying a fortune 743 00:36:59,425 --> 00:37:02,678 to live in a neighborhood that's trendy by day and tranny by night. 744 00:37:02,762 --> 00:37:04,972 -Tranny? -Transsexuals. 745 00:37:05,056 --> 00:37:08,059 Chicks with dicks. Boobs on top, balls down below. 746 00:37:08,476 --> 00:37:09,977 I don't get the appeal there. 747 00:37:10,061 --> 00:37:11,604 It's the other white meat. 748 00:37:11,687 --> 00:37:13,356 [group laughing] 749 00:37:13,439 --> 00:37:15,274 You know, I've played a sex worker a few times. 750 00:37:15,358 --> 00:37:19,237 Are you a lady of the night? A courtesan? 751 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,490 I don't know what you're talking about. I'm a goddess and I'm a fucking model. 752 00:37:22,990 --> 00:37:24,867 Now, do you wanna go on a date with me or not? 753 00:37:25,284 --> 00:37:26,118 Sure. 754 00:37:26,202 --> 00:37:28,996 [Trace] Not that there's anything wrong with doing sex work for a living, 755 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:30,915 but it's just not all that we are. 756 00:37:30,998 --> 00:37:31,832 [sighs] 757 00:37:33,042 --> 00:37:33,876 Hi. 758 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,004 And as a former sex worker, I feel like I can speak to that. 759 00:37:37,088 --> 00:37:39,840 And if you're only seeing us as one thing... 760 00:37:39,924 --> 00:37:41,550 Oh, you're so sweet. 761 00:37:41,634 --> 00:37:45,012 [Trace] ...without any life outside of that, 762 00:37:46,013 --> 00:37:48,683 people are never gonna get to see us as a whole person. 763 00:37:50,268 --> 00:37:52,812 DOA is Mark Halsey. Bunch of stab wounds. 764 00:37:52,895 --> 00:37:54,981 Mark, so a tranny pross. 765 00:37:55,398 --> 00:37:57,275 No, he's just a snappy dresser. 766 00:37:57,566 --> 00:37:59,944 That was a statement, like, I know he's a tra... 767 00:38:01,862 --> 00:38:04,240 [Nick] Unfortunately, Hollywood has spent many, many years, 768 00:38:04,323 --> 00:38:06,909 especially on police shows and hospital shows, 769 00:38:07,493 --> 00:38:09,745 perpetrating the transgender victim narrative, 770 00:38:10,079 --> 00:38:12,873 and it usually falls into a couple of different tropes. 771 00:38:12,957 --> 00:38:15,960 One, someone is murdered because they're transgender. 772 00:38:16,043 --> 00:38:18,129 Or the other version, in the hospital drama, 773 00:38:18,212 --> 00:38:20,923 is they come into the ER, and their hormones are killing them. 774 00:38:21,924 --> 00:38:24,093 Or the trans character is dying from some cancer 775 00:38:24,176 --> 00:38:25,678 that's affiliated with their birth sex. 776 00:38:26,721 --> 00:38:30,516 -We think you have testicular cancer. -What? 777 00:38:30,599 --> 00:38:34,353 I was on a lot of hospital shows. I died a lot. They kept killing me. 778 00:38:34,937 --> 00:38:36,814 -Breast cancer? -[doctor] I'm sorry. 779 00:38:37,231 --> 00:38:38,399 I'm really-- 780 00:38:38,482 --> 00:38:41,902 So, the hormones I've been taking are essentially giving me cancer? 781 00:38:41,986 --> 00:38:42,820 [doctor] Yes. 782 00:38:42,903 --> 00:38:44,572 Trans people don't die 783 00:38:45,114 --> 00:38:49,577 from their life-saving alternatives 784 00:38:49,660 --> 00:38:52,246 to the gender containers they've been assigned. 785 00:38:52,330 --> 00:38:56,417 Are you saying if I become a woman, I could die? 786 00:38:56,917 --> 00:38:58,044 That's not what kills us. 787 00:38:58,753 --> 00:38:59,920 You have prostate cancer. 788 00:39:00,796 --> 00:39:03,257 [Alexandra] Code Black and Chicago Med, I actually booked... 789 00:39:03,341 --> 00:39:05,384 [chuckles] ...like, in the same day. 790 00:39:06,052 --> 00:39:08,929 It's pus. Oh, my God, that's... that's all pus. 791 00:39:09,347 --> 00:39:11,724 -Wait, what do you mean, pus? -[doctor] Infection. 792 00:39:11,807 --> 00:39:13,684 [Alexandra] It was pretty crazy. 793 00:39:13,768 --> 00:39:15,644 I-I booked them so fast 794 00:39:15,728 --> 00:39:18,522 that I didn't even realize the story lines were similar. 795 00:39:18,939 --> 00:39:22,193 Both patients ended up having cancer, and... 796 00:39:22,443 --> 00:39:25,196 I mean, they were literally almost the same story line. 797 00:39:25,279 --> 00:39:27,448 I spent nearly my entire life 798 00:39:28,032 --> 00:39:29,742 feeling at war with my gender. 799 00:39:32,328 --> 00:39:34,789 Figures that the one piece I didn't get rid of... 800 00:39:35,998 --> 00:39:37,249 is what's gonna kill me. 801 00:39:39,001 --> 00:39:40,961 [camera shutter clicking] 802 00:39:41,337 --> 00:39:44,465 I've died so many times, I can't even count, on camera. 803 00:39:44,548 --> 00:39:45,508 ♪ Just listen ♪ 804 00:39:45,966 --> 00:39:47,968 ♪ All you people look at me ♪ 805 00:39:48,052 --> 00:39:50,137 ♪ Like I'm a little girl... ♪ 806 00:39:51,347 --> 00:39:54,058 [Candis] My first, like, big role was on CSI. 807 00:39:54,141 --> 00:39:55,810 It was a high dance role. 808 00:39:55,893 --> 00:39:58,020 So, they saw me audition, 809 00:39:58,104 --> 00:40:00,314 and then they thought, "Oh, well, we could... 810 00:40:00,815 --> 00:40:02,691 use Candis 811 00:40:03,150 --> 00:40:06,320 as... you said, what? What? Trans? 812 00:40:06,404 --> 00:40:07,405 Okay." 813 00:40:07,488 --> 00:40:08,614 [straining] Go! 814 00:40:08,697 --> 00:40:10,282 Our Jane Doe's heavier than she looks. 815 00:40:10,366 --> 00:40:13,619 [Candis] You know, I'm getting wheeled out of the bathroom, and they're all like, 816 00:40:13,702 --> 00:40:16,288 "Wow, her hands are really big. 817 00:40:16,372 --> 00:40:18,457 Look at those huge feet." 818 00:40:19,041 --> 00:40:21,043 She's had her breasts surgically enhanced. 819 00:40:21,460 --> 00:40:24,630 [Candis] And I'm sitting there, dead, rolling my eyes. 820 00:40:24,713 --> 00:40:27,508 [laughs] Like, I cannot believe I'm dealing with this. 821 00:40:27,842 --> 00:40:29,343 Better make that a John Doe. 822 00:40:33,180 --> 00:40:37,101 I wanted to sit up off the table and be like, "You guys, that's bullshit. 823 00:40:37,184 --> 00:40:39,895 That is so stupid. Come on." You know what I mean? 824 00:40:39,979 --> 00:40:42,231 But I was just like, "You know what? Let it go." 825 00:40:42,314 --> 00:40:44,483 What do you think, Sid? Are we looking at a hate crime? 826 00:40:45,151 --> 00:40:49,155 [inhales sharply] Transgendered showgirl drowned in a public toilet? 827 00:40:49,613 --> 00:40:50,906 Sound like love to you? 828 00:40:52,116 --> 00:40:54,410 The way that she ends up dying, 829 00:40:54,493 --> 00:40:58,164 it was so violent and so scary. 830 00:40:59,373 --> 00:41:01,500 -And it was that... -[showgirl] Stop! 831 00:41:02,126 --> 00:41:05,379 ...story that, for some reason, 832 00:41:05,463 --> 00:41:08,424 writers... would write, 833 00:41:08,507 --> 00:41:10,634 producers would want to produce, 834 00:41:10,968 --> 00:41:13,179 directors would want to direct, 835 00:41:13,512 --> 00:41:17,600 because that's the story that people see in the media all the time. 836 00:41:18,726 --> 00:41:21,020 [Candis] Well, I got a call from Ryan Murphy. 837 00:41:21,103 --> 00:41:24,231 He said, "I have this idea for a story line. Would you do it?" 838 00:41:24,315 --> 00:41:27,193 And I was like, "Oh, my God, Nip/Tuck, I'll totally do it." 839 00:41:27,276 --> 00:41:30,946 And I read the story line, and I was like, "Oh, that's an interesting story line." 840 00:41:31,030 --> 00:41:32,781 I was kind of creeped out about it. 841 00:41:33,073 --> 00:41:35,367 I want you to give me a sex-change operation. 842 00:41:37,661 --> 00:41:38,829 I wanna be a man. 843 00:41:40,372 --> 00:41:41,373 [scoffs] 844 00:41:41,582 --> 00:41:43,125 [Candis] It was weird for me 845 00:41:43,209 --> 00:41:46,045 reversing back on camera to a boy, 846 00:41:46,128 --> 00:41:47,463 and putting on a wig, 847 00:41:47,546 --> 00:41:51,133 and trying to strap my... my breasts down. 848 00:41:51,217 --> 00:41:55,554 [laughs] It was kinda hard with these big gazungas. 849 00:41:55,638 --> 00:41:58,724 And if there's anything this experience has taught me, it's... 850 00:41:59,183 --> 00:42:01,602 that the penis does not make the man. 851 00:42:02,061 --> 00:42:02,937 It's what's in here. 852 00:42:03,479 --> 00:42:05,272 [coughs and laughs] Jesus. 853 00:42:05,814 --> 00:42:09,693 In so many ways, the trans story lines on that show 854 00:42:09,777 --> 00:42:15,241 epitomize some of the problematic representations of trans folks. 855 00:42:15,324 --> 00:42:18,327 You know, I don't think my mother would approve of me drinking during therapy. 856 00:42:18,410 --> 00:42:19,245 Do you? 857 00:42:20,079 --> 00:42:21,247 It isn't therapy. 858 00:42:22,373 --> 00:42:23,999 And your mother isn't here. 859 00:42:24,083 --> 00:42:25,334 What are you, a pedophile? 860 00:42:25,417 --> 00:42:28,462 I put an alarm on this house to keep monsters out, 861 00:42:28,546 --> 00:42:30,839 when, shockingly, the true monster 862 00:42:30,923 --> 00:42:33,801 was right in front of my face the entire time! 863 00:42:33,884 --> 00:42:37,304 [Laverne] We didn't know Ava was trans until the end of that first season, 864 00:42:37,388 --> 00:42:39,306 and so, I just thought, "This woman's crazy." 865 00:42:39,390 --> 00:42:42,351 And then we realize she's trans, and so that is the big reveal. 866 00:42:42,768 --> 00:42:43,894 Bite me. 867 00:42:45,104 --> 00:42:46,188 How hard? 868 00:42:52,027 --> 00:42:52,945 [grunts] 869 00:42:53,028 --> 00:42:54,113 [breathing heavily] 870 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:04,164 You started it. 871 00:43:04,707 --> 00:43:06,125 You're gonna finish it. 872 00:43:07,668 --> 00:43:10,421 No, no, no, no. No, no! Not that. 873 00:43:10,504 --> 00:43:11,630 You wanna be conquered? 874 00:43:11,714 --> 00:43:13,966 [Laverne] Those scenes in films are deeply problematic 875 00:43:14,049 --> 00:43:15,926 because I think they send messages to men 876 00:43:16,010 --> 00:43:20,055 that, like, eventually if you keep trying hard enough, a woman will relent. So... 877 00:43:21,056 --> 00:43:21,932 She's... 878 00:43:23,601 --> 00:43:25,686 basically... I mean, to me, she's raped. 879 00:43:25,769 --> 00:43:27,771 Uh, it's just... It's just a lot of... 880 00:43:29,690 --> 00:43:31,025 It's just really hard. 881 00:43:31,108 --> 00:43:33,235 It's really... It was really hard to watch. 882 00:43:34,778 --> 00:43:36,864 And then he stops and runs out, 883 00:43:36,947 --> 00:43:39,908 and she's like, "Oh, am I not woman enough for you?" she says. 884 00:43:39,992 --> 00:43:43,329 And then we cut to the next scene, and he's entering a room, and he says: 885 00:43:43,412 --> 00:43:44,538 Ava's a man. 886 00:43:49,001 --> 00:43:51,003 It was about the depth of her vagina. 887 00:43:51,378 --> 00:43:53,130 Um, and he's a surgeon and... 888 00:43:53,672 --> 00:43:55,090 [exhales] 889 00:43:55,466 --> 00:43:56,800 So, okay. So, I need to... 890 00:43:57,926 --> 00:44:01,930 Just even talking about this as a trans person, even like... 891 00:44:04,099 --> 00:44:07,144 It just... It's so violent. It feels so... 892 00:44:08,228 --> 00:44:09,521 It's so hard to talk about. 893 00:44:09,605 --> 00:44:13,192 I-I can't... I'm-- I'm, like, cringing and, like, I wanna cry talking about it. 894 00:44:13,275 --> 00:44:16,445 I wanna cry talking about this narrative, because it's-- it's... 895 00:44:17,905 --> 00:44:20,866 It's just horrible. It's just... it's... it's... 896 00:44:23,619 --> 00:44:24,995 This is what happens to us. 897 00:44:25,079 --> 00:44:28,082 This is what happens when we watch, and I think that, like... 898 00:44:28,916 --> 00:44:32,336 I wonder if anyone, when they were constructing these story lines 899 00:44:32,419 --> 00:44:34,421 thought about the trans people watching. 900 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:35,881 I don't know. 901 00:44:41,053 --> 00:44:41,970 Who are you? 902 00:44:44,390 --> 00:44:46,350 [Zeke] I was 11 when Boys Don't Cry came out, 903 00:44:46,433 --> 00:44:48,519 so I didn't see it at the time, 904 00:44:48,811 --> 00:44:50,646 but I remember it being in the zeitgeist. 905 00:44:51,063 --> 00:44:54,775 [presenter] Hilary Swank in Boys Don't Cry. 906 00:44:55,192 --> 00:44:57,778 [Zeke] And I remember watching Hilary Swank win the Oscar. 907 00:44:57,861 --> 00:45:00,114 We have come a long way. 908 00:45:00,197 --> 00:45:02,449 -[woman] Yes! -[audience cheers and applauds] 909 00:45:02,533 --> 00:45:04,827 [Zeke] And I remember them playing a clip. 910 00:45:04,910 --> 00:45:07,955 I was born with this weirdness, sort of like a birth defect. 911 00:45:08,288 --> 00:45:12,042 I mean, it's actually not that rare, but these doctors are trying to fix it. 912 00:45:12,126 --> 00:45:14,586 I have really weird stuff too. 913 00:45:14,670 --> 00:45:17,464 [Zeke] This is before I really knew that trans men existed, 914 00:45:17,548 --> 00:45:19,174 and watching the film recently, 915 00:45:19,258 --> 00:45:21,969 I felt super connected to Brandon. 916 00:45:22,553 --> 00:45:24,221 You know, to go... 917 00:45:25,389 --> 00:45:26,390 bumper surfing. 918 00:45:26,765 --> 00:45:30,227 Right? To be drinking beers, to be opening doors for girls... 919 00:45:30,310 --> 00:45:31,812 And he gets to live that. 920 00:45:32,271 --> 00:45:34,606 Nothing can go wrong if we're together. 921 00:45:34,690 --> 00:45:36,608 My girlfriend at the time said, "Want me to come?" 922 00:45:36,692 --> 00:45:38,152 "No, I have to see this alone." 923 00:45:38,235 --> 00:45:41,447 "You sure? This could be painful." I'm like, "I have to do this alone." 924 00:45:41,530 --> 00:45:44,533 And I went to the theater on the Carlton, 925 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:46,660 near Yonge Street in Toronto, 926 00:45:47,035 --> 00:45:49,037 and I went in and watched that movie, 927 00:45:49,121 --> 00:45:50,122 and I was... 928 00:45:50,956 --> 00:45:52,082 blown away. 929 00:45:52,166 --> 00:45:57,921 -[both panting] -[over radio] ♪ Boys don't cry ♪ 930 00:45:59,131 --> 00:46:02,050 ♪ I would tell you that I loved you ♪ 931 00:46:02,134 --> 00:46:04,887 ♪ If I thought that you would stay ♪ 932 00:46:05,846 --> 00:46:07,890 It resonated so deeply for me. 933 00:46:15,564 --> 00:46:17,191 [Brian] It took me a long time to watch it, 934 00:46:17,274 --> 00:46:19,401 but then when I did, it was like... 935 00:46:19,985 --> 00:46:20,861 terrifying. 936 00:46:22,863 --> 00:46:25,699 [Brandon] All right, I'm sorry. Wait, I'm sorry to put you through this. 937 00:46:25,783 --> 00:46:27,034 -Wait! -[teen] Unstrap his belt. 938 00:46:27,117 --> 00:46:30,287 I'll do it! I'll do it! Tom, just turn the light off. I'll do it! 939 00:46:30,370 --> 00:46:32,831 It was hard to watch. It was really hard to watch. 940 00:46:32,915 --> 00:46:36,251 I mean, you know, there's a rape scene in there that's very brutal, 941 00:46:36,335 --> 00:46:41,173 but then there's a moment before the rape that I think was literally... 942 00:46:42,257 --> 00:46:43,300 my worst nightmare. 943 00:46:43,383 --> 00:46:45,135 Come on, I'm holding you until you look. 944 00:46:45,219 --> 00:46:46,094 [Lana crying] No! 945 00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:47,721 Look! 946 00:46:48,222 --> 00:46:50,182 [screams] Leave him alone! 947 00:46:50,265 --> 00:46:53,977 [Brian] Like, it was just... That was... That was a lot to try to process, 948 00:46:54,061 --> 00:46:56,146 as somebody who is, you know... 949 00:46:58,273 --> 00:47:00,943 going through something similar. It's like, I don't ever want that. 950 00:47:01,026 --> 00:47:03,821 This is something that could happen. I don't ever want that to happen. 951 00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:08,116 [Laverne] After I saw that film, 952 00:47:08,534 --> 00:47:10,536 I was like, "Oh, my God, I'm gonna die." 953 00:47:11,870 --> 00:47:12,871 [woman screaming] 954 00:47:12,955 --> 00:47:14,248 Where the fuck is she? 955 00:47:14,915 --> 00:47:18,502 [Laverne] I hear people say, "But it's based on a true story." 956 00:47:19,419 --> 00:47:24,299 But why is this the kind of story that gets told over and over again? 957 00:47:24,383 --> 00:47:26,260 John, she has nothing to do with it. 958 00:47:27,761 --> 00:47:28,720 [gunshot] 959 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:32,516 [gunshot] 960 00:47:34,017 --> 00:47:38,939 I didn't relate to the film as much because I had seen the documentary first, 961 00:47:39,481 --> 00:47:40,858 and that was horrific. 962 00:47:40,941 --> 00:47:43,151 [reporter] A relative discovered the murder victims Friday 963 00:47:43,235 --> 00:47:45,195 on this farmstead south of Humboldt. 964 00:47:45,737 --> 00:47:47,906 The victims were Teena Brandon of Lincoln, 965 00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:50,534 Phillip DeVine of Fairfield, Iowa, 966 00:47:50,617 --> 00:47:52,286 and Lisa Lambert of Humboldt. 967 00:47:52,369 --> 00:47:55,247 [Mickey] But there was also the Phillip DeVine erasure 968 00:47:55,330 --> 00:47:56,623 from Boys Don't Cry. 969 00:47:56,707 --> 00:48:00,168 [man] If you can imagine the terror of sitting in that other room, 970 00:48:00,252 --> 00:48:02,045 listening to two people die, 971 00:48:02,129 --> 00:48:04,965 and knowing, he had to know, he was next. 972 00:48:05,048 --> 00:48:07,926 There was a Black man there who got killed, 973 00:48:08,927 --> 00:48:10,512 who was, like, his buddy, 974 00:48:10,596 --> 00:48:12,598 who was a friend, an ally to him, 975 00:48:12,681 --> 00:48:15,350 and that guy was completely erased from the film. 976 00:48:15,434 --> 00:48:18,020 And that changed... that changed the film for me. 977 00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:20,439 You know? So, um... 978 00:48:20,772 --> 00:48:23,817 Because it's this-- it's-- it's the erasure of-- of Black people. 979 00:48:23,901 --> 00:48:26,445 So it's like you can't have, like, queer trans people and Blackness 980 00:48:26,528 --> 00:48:27,905 in the same space at the same time. 981 00:48:27,988 --> 00:48:30,449 So, what's it say about my queer trans Black ass? 982 00:48:30,532 --> 00:48:33,493 Again, this is taking away representation. 983 00:48:33,577 --> 00:48:35,787 They're telling me that I can't exist 984 00:48:35,871 --> 00:48:37,998 in my Blackness and my queerness and my transness. 985 00:48:38,081 --> 00:48:41,251 I can't bring all of this in at the same time. 986 00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:44,046 [crowd shouting] 987 00:48:44,129 --> 00:48:45,881 [Laverne] In the film Stonewall, 988 00:48:45,964 --> 00:48:48,258 about the 1969 uprising, 989 00:48:48,342 --> 00:48:50,260 we again see a whitewashing of history. 990 00:48:52,054 --> 00:48:54,556 [yells] 991 00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:55,891 [glass shatters] 992 00:48:56,433 --> 00:48:57,976 [yells] Come on! 993 00:48:58,310 --> 00:49:00,354 -Gay power! -[cheering] 994 00:49:00,938 --> 00:49:05,442 Stonewall was a bar for hustlers and street queens. 995 00:49:05,525 --> 00:49:09,863 It was not, like, you know, this respectability bar 996 00:49:09,947 --> 00:49:12,324 where preppy, white gay men went. 997 00:49:12,407 --> 00:49:16,662 [chuckling] That's not what Stonewall was, based on my understanding of history. 998 00:49:18,789 --> 00:49:21,875 And it was really people who didn't have anything to lose 999 00:49:21,959 --> 00:49:24,544 who were just tired of being harassed by the police. 1000 00:49:24,628 --> 00:49:25,837 [crowd yelling] 1001 00:49:30,092 --> 00:49:32,094 You see, in the early '70s, 1002 00:49:32,177 --> 00:49:36,139 the gay rights movement not wanting to have anything to do with trans people. 1003 00:49:36,556 --> 00:49:38,809 Y'all better quiet down. 1004 00:49:39,142 --> 00:49:41,019 [crowd yelling] 1005 00:49:41,812 --> 00:49:45,941 [Laverne] Sylvia, Marsha, street queens, femmes 1006 00:49:46,316 --> 00:49:49,277 started the gay rights movement. 1007 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:54,449 I will no longer put up with this shit. 1008 00:49:54,533 --> 00:49:55,993 I have been beaten. 1009 00:49:56,368 --> 00:49:58,704 I have had my nose broken. 1010 00:49:58,787 --> 00:50:00,706 I have been thrown in jail. 1011 00:50:00,789 --> 00:50:02,916 I have lost my job. 1012 00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,712 I have lost my apartment for gay liberation, 1013 00:50:06,795 --> 00:50:09,172 and you all treat me this way? 1014 00:50:09,256 --> 00:50:11,508 What the fuck's wrong with you all? 1015 00:50:11,967 --> 00:50:13,552 Think about that! 1016 00:50:15,512 --> 00:50:17,806 [Yance] Assimilation is the American narrative, 1017 00:50:17,889 --> 00:50:20,434 and trans people make it really difficult 1018 00:50:20,517 --> 00:50:23,020 for some people in the queer community to assimilate. 1019 00:50:23,103 --> 00:50:24,187 And so, what happens? 1020 00:50:24,604 --> 00:50:27,858 That section of the queer community is like, "You don't exist." Pfft. 1021 00:50:28,525 --> 00:50:29,985 You know, I think sometimes 1022 00:50:30,068 --> 00:50:35,198 it's people who feel closest to something that frightens them 1023 00:50:35,282 --> 00:50:36,575 who are the most vicious, 1024 00:50:36,658 --> 00:50:40,746 and some of the most transphobic reactions that I know of 1025 00:50:40,829 --> 00:50:43,040 actually come from gay men. 1026 00:50:46,793 --> 00:50:49,713 [reporter] A 26-year-old ex-GI arrives home from Denmark, 1027 00:50:49,796 --> 00:50:52,090 where doctors converted him into a woman. 1028 00:50:52,174 --> 00:50:56,470 [Susan] There was actually a letter that Christine Jorgensen received 1029 00:50:56,553 --> 00:50:58,597 from somebody who identified as gay, 1030 00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:03,226 and it included a... a razor blade in the letter, and said, you know, like, 1031 00:51:03,310 --> 00:51:06,563 "Why don't you finish the job that the doctor started?" 1032 00:51:07,147 --> 00:51:08,023 You know? 1033 00:51:08,106 --> 00:51:08,940 [grunts] 1034 00:51:12,736 --> 00:51:16,323 Trans history changes in 1952, 1035 00:51:16,406 --> 00:51:18,241 when Christine Jorgensen 1036 00:51:18,325 --> 00:51:21,036 becomes a global media celebrity. 1037 00:51:21,119 --> 00:51:22,162 [reporters clamoring] 1038 00:51:22,245 --> 00:51:23,538 Thank you very much. 1039 00:51:24,122 --> 00:51:26,166 [Susan] She was not the first trans person, 1040 00:51:26,249 --> 00:51:29,127 not the first person to have genital surgery or take hormones, 1041 00:51:29,211 --> 00:51:34,382 but she was the first person to become globally famous for doing that. 1042 00:51:35,759 --> 00:51:39,554 This was the image of transgender for a generation of people. 1043 00:51:45,268 --> 00:51:47,062 [Laverne] Christine Jorgensen is pivotal. 1044 00:51:47,938 --> 00:51:53,360 She set the ways in which the conversation around trans identity was being had. 1045 00:51:53,443 --> 00:51:56,113 [Tom] How do you explain an article that appeared in New West magazine 1046 00:51:56,196 --> 00:51:58,740 over the holiday season last year? It was about transsexuals, 1047 00:51:58,824 --> 00:52:00,909 and there were some horrible stories in there 1048 00:52:00,992 --> 00:52:03,411 about women who, uh... uh... 1049 00:52:04,579 --> 00:52:07,040 would feel the phantom penis coming back 1050 00:52:07,124 --> 00:52:10,335 and had great psychological problems, or problems in urination, 1051 00:52:10,418 --> 00:52:11,795 or problems sexually, 1052 00:52:11,878 --> 00:52:14,297 or psychological problems caused by surgery 1053 00:52:14,381 --> 00:52:16,925 that possibly was done without proper counseling. 1054 00:52:17,008 --> 00:52:20,137 Well, there's your answer. You just used the word counseling. 1055 00:52:20,220 --> 00:52:23,932 We have, and it's a demand, gender identity clinics. 1056 00:52:24,391 --> 00:52:26,393 People always refer to the surgery. 1057 00:52:26,476 --> 00:52:28,270 The surgery is sort of an anticlimax. 1058 00:52:28,353 --> 00:52:31,606 -It's done after all the other things. -[Tom] To those who have it, possibly. 1059 00:52:31,690 --> 00:52:35,152 But to those who do not, that's the word that comes through in the papers. 1060 00:52:35,235 --> 00:52:37,362 -Surgery, cutting, removing. -[Christine] Yeah, right. 1061 00:52:37,445 --> 00:52:38,280 -[Tom] Okay? -Right. 1062 00:52:38,363 --> 00:52:39,573 This focus on surgery 1063 00:52:39,656 --> 00:52:42,534 became the ways in which trans people have really been talked about 1064 00:52:43,076 --> 00:52:43,994 for 60 years. 1065 00:52:44,077 --> 00:52:47,289 What's going on here, and what's going on... 1066 00:52:47,372 --> 00:52:48,957 [audience] There. 1067 00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:53,253 The skin of the penis is used to create what appears to be a vagina. 1068 00:52:53,336 --> 00:52:54,671 -Is that correct? -That's correct. 1069 00:52:54,754 --> 00:52:56,965 How'd you feel about your body when you were back then? 1070 00:52:57,048 --> 00:52:58,133 It wasn't my body. 1071 00:52:58,216 --> 00:52:59,968 And is it acting like a penis? 1072 00:53:00,051 --> 00:53:00,969 Yeah. 1073 00:53:01,052 --> 00:53:02,971 "When did you come out? What was your name before? 1074 00:53:03,054 --> 00:53:05,932 What'd you look like? How'd your family take it? Who do you have sex with?" 1075 00:53:06,016 --> 00:53:07,684 How did we get on this subject? 1076 00:53:07,767 --> 00:53:10,562 Turn around. Flip. Go. Okay. Here, everybody look. 1077 00:53:10,645 --> 00:53:12,355 [laughs] It's definitely a man. 1078 00:53:12,439 --> 00:53:15,483 You make comments, you make questions. Now we have the right to ask you. 1079 00:53:15,567 --> 00:53:18,236 [woman] What'd you pay for those? I want to know what mine are worth. 1080 00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,155 [audience] Oh! 1081 00:53:20,238 --> 00:53:21,990 [Ser] It's sort of like a circus. 1082 00:53:22,073 --> 00:53:23,617 "She's really a man." 1083 00:53:23,700 --> 00:53:25,452 "Men who used to be women." 1084 00:53:25,535 --> 00:53:29,039 Are you a man? Are you a woman? Are you an "it"? What are you? 1085 00:53:29,122 --> 00:53:30,332 [Ser] Dun, dun. 1086 00:53:30,415 --> 00:53:34,085 [laughs] Step right up. Poke, poke. Everyone, five dollars. 1087 00:53:34,169 --> 00:53:36,588 That's how it felt watching it. 1088 00:53:37,172 --> 00:53:39,382 [Trace] It was like a car crash, because I would... 1089 00:53:39,466 --> 00:53:41,134 I couldn't look away. Like, I would watch. 1090 00:53:45,138 --> 00:53:46,973 And know that there was something inside of me 1091 00:53:47,057 --> 00:53:48,683 that connected to these women, 1092 00:53:48,767 --> 00:53:50,769 but it was also really salacious. 1093 00:53:50,852 --> 00:53:52,687 What would a reaction be from a guy? 1094 00:53:53,313 --> 00:53:55,941 -What is your reaction? -My reaction right now? 1095 00:53:56,024 --> 00:53:58,485 -[woman] Mm-hmm. -I find you all very attractive. 1096 00:53:59,402 --> 00:54:00,695 -Uh... -But you're not... 1097 00:54:00,779 --> 00:54:03,949 -ready to just dive into bed. -No, no, I'm not saying that, but... 1098 00:54:04,032 --> 00:54:04,866 You know? 1099 00:54:04,950 --> 00:54:06,952 Well, certainly not here, no. 1100 00:54:07,285 --> 00:54:09,913 [Laverne] There's this episode of the Gary Collins show 1101 00:54:10,288 --> 00:54:14,334 with these beautiful trans women who were showgirls at the time. 1102 00:54:14,709 --> 00:54:18,088 And he's trying to be very delicate with the interview, 1103 00:54:18,171 --> 00:54:22,926 but he's sort of saying, "Well, you know, I-I-I saw these images of you, and... 1104 00:54:23,009 --> 00:54:26,096 and-- and there seems to be no suggestion of male genitalia." 1105 00:54:26,846 --> 00:54:29,683 [Gary] I mean, that may not be very, you know, gentlemanly, but I... 1106 00:54:29,766 --> 00:54:32,310 What... what happens? What... what happens to it? 1107 00:54:33,436 --> 00:54:35,814 -[group chuckles] -[audience laughs] 1108 00:54:35,897 --> 00:54:37,148 [Laverne] And that reminds me 1109 00:54:37,232 --> 00:54:39,985 of when Caroline Cossey was on The Arsenio Hall Show. 1110 00:54:40,652 --> 00:54:43,321 And Arsenio Hall had a very similar line of questioning. 1111 00:54:43,405 --> 00:54:46,366 But how did you keep people from knowing, if you were a stripper, 1112 00:54:46,449 --> 00:54:48,660 that you had a penis? 1113 00:54:49,369 --> 00:54:51,413 Well, I sort of, tucked it away, and... 1114 00:54:51,871 --> 00:54:53,331 stuck it up my... [chuckles] 1115 00:54:53,415 --> 00:54:55,000 ...stuck it up my rosebud, actually. 1116 00:54:55,083 --> 00:54:56,001 [laughs] 1117 00:54:56,668 --> 00:54:58,336 W-Was it a real small penis? 1118 00:54:58,420 --> 00:55:00,630 'Cause I'd have a hard time tucking mine away, you know? 1119 00:55:00,714 --> 00:55:01,840 [all laugh] 1120 00:55:03,633 --> 00:55:04,467 Whoo! 1121 00:55:04,551 --> 00:55:05,635 Uh... [laughs] 1122 00:55:06,052 --> 00:55:07,387 That was... 1123 00:55:07,470 --> 00:55:08,305 Oh, my God. 1124 00:55:08,388 --> 00:55:10,849 That was really... That's really hard to watch now. 1125 00:55:10,932 --> 00:55:12,142 Can you have an orgasm? 1126 00:55:12,642 --> 00:55:15,812 Well, I think, like most women say, you know, it depends on the guy, really. 1127 00:55:15,895 --> 00:55:17,772 -[laughs] -[Arsenio] Oh, okay, yeah. Yeah. 1128 00:55:17,856 --> 00:55:18,773 [audience cheering] 1129 00:55:18,857 --> 00:55:20,442 [Ser] She was just so graceful. 1130 00:55:21,109 --> 00:55:23,361 For her and her humor and her wit. 1131 00:55:24,404 --> 00:55:27,115 I mean, I was like, "I wish I could be like her." 1132 00:55:27,198 --> 00:55:29,659 Hey, I'd like to know if you just pose for these magazines 1133 00:55:29,743 --> 00:55:30,869 and make these comments 1134 00:55:30,952 --> 00:55:33,538 just to try to prove to yourself that you're a woman. 1135 00:55:33,621 --> 00:55:36,833 I don't have to prove to anyone or myself that I'm a woman. I am a woman. 1136 00:55:36,916 --> 00:55:38,877 -[woman] Good girl! -[audience applauds] 1137 00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:40,712 [Jen] In retrospect, it's disheartening to see 1138 00:55:40,795 --> 00:55:43,465 the way that trans people were exploited for those kinds of stories. 1139 00:55:43,548 --> 00:55:45,759 I have to admit, it was also really cool just to see 1140 00:55:45,842 --> 00:55:47,594 actual trans people on television 1141 00:55:47,677 --> 00:55:51,389 The only thing about dating straight men and living this way 1142 00:55:51,473 --> 00:55:53,558 is that they are more afraid 1143 00:55:53,641 --> 00:55:56,728 of what their friends will say and perceive. 1144 00:55:56,811 --> 00:55:58,355 [Zackary] And so many of those people 1145 00:55:58,813 --> 00:56:00,940 are monuments in our community. 1146 00:56:01,024 --> 00:56:03,151 There's gender identity, 1147 00:56:03,234 --> 00:56:05,653 which is "What am I? Am I a man or a woman?" 1148 00:56:05,737 --> 00:56:08,823 Then there's sexual orientation, which is "Who do I love? Men or women?" 1149 00:56:08,907 --> 00:56:10,075 They're two different things. 1150 00:56:10,158 --> 00:56:11,326 [laughs] 1151 00:56:11,409 --> 00:56:16,206 It was a hustle for them. It was an opportunity to get paid and... 1152 00:56:17,457 --> 00:56:18,958 to tell their story. 1153 00:56:19,959 --> 00:56:21,044 And it did reach us. 1154 00:56:21,127 --> 00:56:23,213 It's been estimated that there's probably 1155 00:56:23,296 --> 00:56:26,216 one in 40,000 births or something like that are people 1156 00:56:26,299 --> 00:56:28,385 that fall into... to the category 1157 00:56:28,468 --> 00:56:30,595 that... that you would call "transsexual." 1158 00:56:30,845 --> 00:56:34,349 Uh, there are many, many others who... who are sort of marginal, and-- 1159 00:56:34,432 --> 00:56:37,227 [woman] Would you like to be talked about like that? I wouldn't. 1160 00:56:37,310 --> 00:56:40,021 [Joan] No, but I think it's important for somebody sitting at home 1161 00:56:40,397 --> 00:56:42,899 to hear there are other people, there are a lot of other people, 1162 00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:44,901 that it's just fine and dandy. 1163 00:56:44,984 --> 00:56:47,278 Not all of us live in New York or San Francisco. 1164 00:56:47,362 --> 00:56:49,572 But listening to someone as articulate as Leslie or David, 1165 00:56:49,656 --> 00:56:52,951 you know, like, that, I think, is gonna give them the hope and the strength. 1166 00:56:53,034 --> 00:56:55,286 For all our lives, we've always heard... 1167 00:56:55,370 --> 00:56:58,873 seen ourselves refracted through other people's prisms. 1168 00:56:58,957 --> 00:57:01,459 -[Joan] Right. -We've always heard people analyze us, 1169 00:57:01,543 --> 00:57:04,295 describe what our feelings are, what our thoughts are. 1170 00:57:04,379 --> 00:57:08,591 How about talking about why Jesse Helms needs some therapy? 1171 00:57:08,675 --> 00:57:09,592 [woman] Yes! 1172 00:57:09,676 --> 00:57:11,052 -Or... -[audience applauds] 1173 00:57:11,136 --> 00:57:12,095 [Leslie] Or... 1174 00:57:12,178 --> 00:57:13,263 What... 1175 00:57:13,346 --> 00:57:17,600 What on earth is going through the minds of those Klansmen, you know? 1176 00:57:17,684 --> 00:57:18,518 [Joan] Yes, yes. 1177 00:57:18,601 --> 00:57:21,980 And so, if... if we're going to talk about our situations, 1178 00:57:22,063 --> 00:57:25,024 'cause if you don't name an oppression, you can't fight it, 1179 00:57:25,108 --> 00:57:27,694 you know, basically, you can't organize around it, 1180 00:57:27,777 --> 00:57:30,238 is that we want our own voices to be heard, 1181 00:57:30,321 --> 00:57:32,198 and that's what the civil rights movement did, 1182 00:57:32,282 --> 00:57:33,867 that's what the women's movement did-- 1183 00:57:33,950 --> 00:57:37,370 And in a little way, that's what The Joan Rivers Show has done today. 1184 00:57:37,454 --> 00:57:40,248 -[audience cheering] -[Laverne] Seeing trans people loved, 1185 00:57:40,331 --> 00:57:43,293 uplifted, and well regarded in film and television 1186 00:57:43,835 --> 00:57:45,336 can endear you to step in 1187 00:57:45,420 --> 00:57:48,298 when you see a trans person being harassed on the street, 1188 00:57:49,090 --> 00:57:50,842 and to make sure the trans people in your life 1189 00:57:50,925 --> 00:57:53,970 are supported in ways that affirm their humanity. 1190 00:57:56,055 --> 00:57:57,056 You're a man? 1191 00:57:57,140 --> 00:57:58,141 Oh, hey. 1192 00:57:58,641 --> 00:58:00,310 -It's okay. -No, it's not okay. 1193 00:58:00,393 --> 00:58:02,395 I swear I didn't mean for you to find out like this. 1194 00:58:02,479 --> 00:58:04,939 [Laverne] But when all you see reinforced is violence, 1195 00:58:05,023 --> 00:58:06,900 we're put further in harm's way. 1196 00:58:06,983 --> 00:58:08,526 -Talk to me! -Please don't touch me! 1197 00:58:09,235 --> 00:58:10,111 [glass shatters] 1198 00:58:10,737 --> 00:58:12,822 [Jen] When you start watching trans clips back-to-back, 1199 00:58:12,906 --> 00:58:16,367 you see how often all the people around the trans character 1200 00:58:16,451 --> 00:58:18,328 feel betrayed or lied to. 1201 00:58:18,661 --> 00:58:22,373 But frankly, I-I kind of hate the idea of disclosure... [laughs] 1202 00:58:22,457 --> 00:58:26,419 ...in the sense that it presupposes that there is something to disclose. 1203 00:58:27,212 --> 00:58:30,465 You told me about your parents, your sister, your hobbies. 1204 00:58:31,549 --> 00:58:33,885 We sat for three hours on a porch talking about everything. 1205 00:58:33,968 --> 00:58:36,513 You left out the fact that you used to be a man. 1206 00:58:37,180 --> 00:58:38,014 I'm sorry. 1207 00:58:38,097 --> 00:58:39,766 [Jen] It reinforces their assumption 1208 00:58:39,849 --> 00:58:42,185 that there is a secret that is hidden 1209 00:58:42,268 --> 00:58:45,188 and that I have a responsibility to tell others, 1210 00:58:45,271 --> 00:58:49,901 and that presupposes that the other person might have some kind of issue or problem 1211 00:58:50,318 --> 00:58:52,028 with what's to be disclosed. 1212 00:58:53,613 --> 00:58:54,572 [door opens] 1213 00:58:54,656 --> 00:58:55,990 [footsteps depart] 1214 00:58:56,699 --> 00:59:00,119 And that their feelings matter more than mine. 1215 00:59:00,703 --> 00:59:01,663 [softly] Damn it. 1216 00:59:01,746 --> 00:59:04,749 [Laverne] Or the trans person is invented 1217 00:59:04,832 --> 00:59:08,711 to facilitate the growth of the straight white man. 1218 00:59:09,671 --> 00:59:13,132 In the real-life Dallas Buyers Club story, 1219 00:59:14,884 --> 00:59:17,637 there was actually no Rayon character. 1220 00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:18,638 I'm Rayon. 1221 00:59:22,684 --> 00:59:24,060 Congratulations. 1222 00:59:25,478 --> 00:59:27,438 Fuck off and go back to your bed. 1223 00:59:30,567 --> 00:59:32,277 [Bianca] In Dallas Buyers Club, 1224 00:59:32,777 --> 00:59:36,030 the heterosexual character gets his act together. 1225 00:59:37,073 --> 00:59:37,949 You fuckin' high? 1226 00:59:39,075 --> 00:59:40,118 None of your business. 1227 00:59:40,660 --> 00:59:42,537 And he becomes a hero. 1228 00:59:42,620 --> 00:59:44,664 I mean, god damn, people are dying, 1229 00:59:44,998 --> 00:59:46,708 and y'all are all up there afraid 1230 00:59:46,791 --> 00:59:49,085 that we're gonna find an alternative without you. 1231 00:59:49,168 --> 00:59:50,420 Rayon's character... 1232 00:59:50,503 --> 00:59:51,546 [sniffing] 1233 00:59:52,005 --> 00:59:53,631 ...has a drug relapse, 1234 00:59:54,632 --> 00:59:55,592 gets sick, 1235 00:59:56,092 --> 00:59:57,176 and dies. 1236 00:59:58,511 --> 01:00:02,390 Showing up with all the piss and vinegar and sassiness 1237 01:00:02,724 --> 01:00:05,768 to wake up this guy and shake up the assumptions. 1238 01:00:06,144 --> 01:00:08,313 "Okay, she's done that. He's on his way. 1239 01:00:08,396 --> 01:00:09,647 Oh. Kill her." 1240 01:00:10,231 --> 01:00:11,649 And the Oscar goes to... 1241 01:00:12,567 --> 01:00:15,236 -Jared Leto, Dallas Buyers Club. -[audience applauds] 1242 01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:17,989 [Jen] I do remember watching Jared Leto, 1243 01:00:18,281 --> 01:00:20,908 you know, in his white tuxedo and a full beard 1244 01:00:21,367 --> 01:00:23,953 and it certainly was very clear to me in that moment 1245 01:00:24,037 --> 01:00:27,457 that the world was seeing him as a man 1246 01:00:27,540 --> 01:00:29,542 despite Rayon having been portrayed 1247 01:00:29,626 --> 01:00:31,961 quite beautifully and sensitively in the movie. 1248 01:00:32,378 --> 01:00:34,881 And I realized, like, that's part of this larger narrative. 1249 01:00:34,964 --> 01:00:35,923 Lili. 1250 01:00:36,424 --> 01:00:38,885 [Jen] The public thinks of trans women 1251 01:00:38,968 --> 01:00:43,514 as men with really good hair and makeup in costume. 1252 01:00:44,182 --> 01:00:45,475 And that's reinforced 1253 01:00:45,558 --> 01:00:50,104 every time we see a man who's played a trans woman off-screen. 1254 01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:51,773 Can I come in? 1255 01:00:51,856 --> 01:00:55,360 I'm... I... I got no job. I don't have friends. I can't live. 1256 01:00:55,443 --> 01:00:56,986 I-I have to live with people. 1257 01:00:57,070 --> 01:00:58,655 [Jen] To my mind, Dog Day Afternoon 1258 01:00:58,738 --> 01:01:00,865 is the par exemplar... [laughs] 1259 01:01:00,948 --> 01:01:04,077 ...of this issue around trans casting, 1260 01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:05,328 particularly of men. 1261 01:01:05,870 --> 01:01:07,997 In real life, that woman, Elizabeth Eden, 1262 01:01:08,081 --> 01:01:10,458 was a remarkably beautiful trans woman. 1263 01:01:10,541 --> 01:01:13,419 And, at that time, when they were first doing the movie, 1264 01:01:14,045 --> 01:01:17,965 they did go out to a trans actress, Elizabeth Coffey Williams, 1265 01:01:18,049 --> 01:01:22,553 and they told her that she looked too much like a real woman to play the part. 1266 01:01:24,722 --> 01:01:27,225 So, instead, they cast Chris Sarandon, 1267 01:01:27,308 --> 01:01:29,477 and it was his very first movie role, 1268 01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:32,021 and he was nominated for an Oscar for it. 1269 01:01:32,438 --> 01:01:33,564 [presenter] Chris Sarandon... 1270 01:01:34,816 --> 01:01:37,276 -in Dog Day Afternoon. -[audience applauds] 1271 01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:39,028 This has been going on for 40 years. 1272 01:01:39,696 --> 01:01:41,989 [presenter 2] John Lithgow in The World According to Garp. 1273 01:01:42,073 --> 01:01:42,907 [audience applauds] 1274 01:01:43,408 --> 01:01:45,410 [presenter 3] Cillian Murphy, Breakfast on Pluto. 1275 01:01:45,493 --> 01:01:46,369 [audience cheering] 1276 01:01:46,786 --> 01:01:49,038 [presenter 4] Eddie Redmayne, The Danish Girl. 1277 01:01:49,122 --> 01:01:52,166 [Jen] Having cis men play trans women, 1278 01:01:52,250 --> 01:01:55,837 in my mind, is a direct link to the violence against trans women. 1279 01:01:56,212 --> 01:02:00,007 And in my mind, part of the reason that men end up killing trans women 1280 01:02:00,091 --> 01:02:02,552 out of fear that other men will think that they're gay 1281 01:02:02,635 --> 01:02:04,303 for having been with trans women, 1282 01:02:04,679 --> 01:02:08,516 is that the friends, the men whose judgment they fear of, 1283 01:02:08,599 --> 01:02:10,268 only know trans women from media 1284 01:02:10,643 --> 01:02:14,063 and the people who are playing trans women are the men that they know. 1285 01:02:14,647 --> 01:02:17,275 This doesn't happen when a trans woman plays a trans woman. 1286 01:02:17,692 --> 01:02:21,112 [chuckling] Laverne Cox is just as beautiful and glamorous off-screen 1287 01:02:21,195 --> 01:02:22,739 as she is on-screen. 1288 01:02:22,822 --> 01:02:27,076 As is Jazzmun, as is Trace Lysette, and Alexandra Billings 1289 01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:28,703 and Angelica Ross and so on. 1290 01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:32,248 When you see these women off-screen still as women, 1291 01:02:32,331 --> 01:02:35,585 it completely deflates this idea that they're somehow men in disguise. 1292 01:02:35,668 --> 01:02:37,003 [rock music playing] 1293 01:02:37,086 --> 01:02:39,172 [both exclaim] 1294 01:02:39,255 --> 01:02:41,549 Whereas if I'm playing a trans character... 1295 01:02:41,632 --> 01:02:47,263 Looking at who we really are or what we really want can be terrifying. 1296 01:02:47,346 --> 01:02:49,390 ...I don't have to play the transness of it. 1297 01:02:50,808 --> 01:02:52,518 [giggling] 1298 01:02:54,228 --> 01:02:56,731 When someone like Eddie Redmayne, who admittedly might give 1299 01:02:56,814 --> 01:02:58,649 a really great performance as a trans woman... 1300 01:02:58,733 --> 01:02:59,901 Am I pretty enough? 1301 01:03:01,235 --> 01:03:02,487 Of course you are. 1302 01:03:02,904 --> 01:03:05,990 [Jen] What's remarkable about his performance is the transness, 1303 01:03:06,073 --> 01:03:10,369 is the way that he's been able to manifest those feminine parts of himself 1304 01:03:10,453 --> 01:03:12,371 into a convincing trans performance, 1305 01:03:13,289 --> 01:03:16,793 but it reduces that person, in this case, who was a real person, 1306 01:03:17,210 --> 01:03:20,004 to a performance of transness, to a performance of femininity, 1307 01:03:20,087 --> 01:03:24,509 rather than as a whole person, of whom transness is one aspect of. 1308 01:03:28,137 --> 01:03:30,014 In this year of women in film, 1309 01:03:30,515 --> 01:03:32,725 I am here to present an award for a category 1310 01:03:32,809 --> 01:03:36,312 in which women have traditionally found it difficult to gain a toehold: 1311 01:03:37,605 --> 01:03:38,981 Best Supporting Actor. 1312 01:03:39,357 --> 01:03:40,942 [audience laughs] 1313 01:03:42,026 --> 01:03:44,946 I think it can be safely said, however, 1314 01:03:45,029 --> 01:03:48,449 that this year was a breakthrough year in this category. 1315 01:03:48,533 --> 01:03:49,742 [audience applauds] 1316 01:03:49,826 --> 01:03:51,828 ["The Crying Game" playing] 1317 01:03:55,414 --> 01:03:59,836 ♪ I know what there is to know ♪ 1318 01:03:59,919 --> 01:04:02,505 ♪ About the crying game ♪ 1319 01:04:02,588 --> 01:04:03,965 When The Crying Game came out, 1320 01:04:04,423 --> 01:04:06,843 everybody was like, "Don't tell the secret of The Crying Game. 1321 01:04:06,926 --> 01:04:08,761 The secret is, like, crazy. 1322 01:04:08,845 --> 01:04:10,471 It's crazy! Oh, my God." 1323 01:04:10,555 --> 01:04:11,389 [gasps] 1324 01:04:15,476 --> 01:04:17,061 [Dil] You did know, didn't you? 1325 01:04:20,481 --> 01:04:21,566 Oh, my God. 1326 01:04:24,986 --> 01:04:26,320 Jesus, I feel sick. 1327 01:04:28,114 --> 01:04:29,407 Don't go, Jimmy. 1328 01:04:29,490 --> 01:04:30,408 [grunts] 1329 01:04:31,742 --> 01:04:32,910 [door closes] 1330 01:04:32,994 --> 01:04:36,330 -I'm sorry. I thought you knew. -[Jimmy retching and coughing] 1331 01:04:38,291 --> 01:04:39,959 [retching and coughing continues] 1332 01:04:40,209 --> 01:04:42,128 The puking. Um... 1333 01:04:45,339 --> 01:04:47,592 I mean, it just... You know, I feel emotional when I... 1334 01:04:47,675 --> 01:04:50,386 when I even talk about... uh... the... the repulsion. 1335 01:04:51,262 --> 01:04:54,307 Um, because that's how I felt about myself for so long. 1336 01:04:54,390 --> 01:04:57,685 Like, will people be repelled? Will people be... you know... 1337 01:04:58,895 --> 01:05:00,438 The... the word "disgust." 1338 01:05:01,147 --> 01:05:05,484 You know, there's so much shame that people have to fight through... 1339 01:05:06,193 --> 01:05:07,778 and come out the other side of. 1340 01:05:08,487 --> 01:05:11,782 And then it emerges in weird, insidious ways somewhere down the road, 1341 01:05:11,866 --> 01:05:13,451 and you're like, "What? That's up again?" 1342 01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:15,161 [retches and coughs] 1343 01:05:16,037 --> 01:05:17,747 I'm bleeding. 1344 01:05:17,830 --> 01:05:22,585 You know, I didn't... It took me many years to understand 1345 01:05:23,419 --> 01:05:25,129 the ways in which it was flawed, 1346 01:05:25,212 --> 01:05:27,548 because I think at the time, when I was, like, ten years old, 1347 01:05:27,632 --> 01:05:30,885 just seeing that beautiful woman with a penis 1348 01:05:31,636 --> 01:05:34,722 changed, like, my whole perception of what was possible. 1349 01:05:35,473 --> 01:05:37,892 I don't know what the director's intentions were in this film. 1350 01:05:38,309 --> 01:05:42,063 I suspect he did wanna create an empathetic portrayal of a trans woman. 1351 01:05:42,146 --> 01:05:44,148 But in the same way that Psycho created 1352 01:05:44,231 --> 01:05:48,486 this ripple effect of cross-dressing, psychopathic serial killers... 1353 01:05:48,569 --> 01:05:49,612 [gasps] 1354 01:05:49,695 --> 01:05:50,905 [screams] 1355 01:05:50,988 --> 01:05:53,240 ...The Crying Game created a ripple effect 1356 01:05:53,324 --> 01:05:57,161 of men reacting with vomiting when they see a transgender woman. 1357 01:05:58,829 --> 01:06:00,706 [retching loudly] 1358 01:06:01,624 --> 01:06:04,335 [man retches] Oh, God. 1359 01:06:04,418 --> 01:06:06,629 [Nick] Hollywood is teaching people that the way you react 1360 01:06:06,712 --> 01:06:09,256 when you see a transgender person's body is to vomit. 1361 01:06:16,180 --> 01:06:17,348 [inhales] 1362 01:06:17,431 --> 01:06:19,850 Your gun is digging into my hip. 1363 01:06:19,934 --> 01:06:22,311 As a kid, my favorite movie was Ace Ventura: Pet Detective. 1364 01:06:22,395 --> 01:06:25,815 [Ace] ♪ Ass-holeyo mio ♪ 1365 01:06:25,898 --> 01:06:28,317 ♪ O sodo-mia ♪ 1366 01:06:28,734 --> 01:06:31,320 And then I was watching it in college, 1367 01:06:31,946 --> 01:06:33,489 as I was transitioning. 1368 01:06:33,572 --> 01:06:35,032 And I was really down... 1369 01:06:35,116 --> 01:06:35,992 [whistles] 1370 01:06:37,743 --> 01:06:39,245 ...and I think I wanted something 1371 01:06:39,328 --> 01:06:41,998 that I knew was gonna bring me up and make me happy. 1372 01:06:42,873 --> 01:06:44,750 And then we get to the end... 1373 01:06:44,834 --> 01:06:46,961 Oh, my God! 1374 01:06:47,336 --> 01:06:49,088 Einhorn is a man! 1375 01:06:49,171 --> 01:06:50,715 [groans] 1376 01:06:51,298 --> 01:06:52,591 [retching] 1377 01:06:53,009 --> 01:06:54,719 [coughing] 1378 01:06:57,847 --> 01:07:00,224 [Zeke] There is this long scene of him... 1379 01:07:00,975 --> 01:07:02,727 barfing, inducing barfing, 1380 01:07:02,810 --> 01:07:04,979 brushing his teeth, scraping out his tongue, 1381 01:07:05,354 --> 01:07:08,774 gargling with mouthwash, trying to, like, cleanse himself 1382 01:07:08,858 --> 01:07:12,111 of the fact that he has made romantic contact with a trans person. 1383 01:07:12,737 --> 01:07:15,197 Or with a man. I mean, you can see it through a homophobic lens. 1384 01:07:15,281 --> 01:07:16,949 It's both homophobic and transphobic. 1385 01:07:17,450 --> 01:07:21,245 And then, as he's gonna, like, have his Scooby-Doo moment... 1386 01:07:22,121 --> 01:07:22,997 [panting] 1387 01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:24,415 [laughs] 1388 01:07:24,498 --> 01:07:28,002 ...he does so by, like, pulling down her skirt, 1389 01:07:28,711 --> 01:07:29,795 turning her around, 1390 01:07:29,879 --> 01:07:32,590 and exposing the fact that, like, her genitals are tucked. 1391 01:07:33,424 --> 01:07:34,300 [spitting] 1392 01:07:34,383 --> 01:07:35,801 [retching] 1393 01:07:35,885 --> 01:07:37,511 -[spits] -[retching] 1394 01:07:40,848 --> 01:07:43,142 That, like, you are a trans person who existed 1395 01:07:43,225 --> 01:07:45,061 made people physically ill 1396 01:07:45,686 --> 01:07:48,731 was the way in which my favorite movie as a child ended. 1397 01:07:55,863 --> 01:07:58,032 [Jen] It's an interesting question, a thought experiment, 1398 01:07:58,115 --> 01:07:59,408 to go back and think... 1399 01:07:59,992 --> 01:08:01,744 -[groans] -...what I would feel today, 1400 01:08:01,827 --> 01:08:03,120 as an out trans person, 1401 01:08:03,204 --> 01:08:06,707 if I had never seen any representation of myself in the media. 1402 01:08:07,083 --> 01:08:08,250 On the one hand, 1403 01:08:08,334 --> 01:08:12,588 I might not have ever internalized that sense of-- of being monstrous, 1404 01:08:12,671 --> 01:08:15,007 of having fears around disclosure, 1405 01:08:15,091 --> 01:08:17,760 of seeing myself as something abhorrent 1406 01:08:17,843 --> 01:08:20,971 and as-- as a punchline and-- and as a joke. 1407 01:08:21,055 --> 01:08:25,810 I might be able to go on a date with a man without having the image of men vomiting. 1408 01:08:25,893 --> 01:08:28,771 On the flip side, would I even know I'm trans 1409 01:08:28,854 --> 01:08:32,733 if I had never seen any kind of depiction of gender variance on-screen. 1410 01:08:42,451 --> 01:08:46,705 One of the things that I struggled with as a trans person was, 1411 01:08:46,789 --> 01:08:48,457 "Who will ever love me? 1412 01:08:48,541 --> 01:08:49,750 Who will love this?" 1413 01:08:50,709 --> 01:08:51,585 Rest, Neo. 1414 01:08:51,669 --> 01:08:53,003 The answers are coming. 1415 01:08:53,129 --> 01:08:55,881 -[monitor beeping] -[Lilly] Being out and trans 1416 01:08:55,965 --> 01:08:59,552 forces people to look back on my work 1417 01:09:00,261 --> 01:09:03,389 and apply a trans narrative to it, 1418 01:09:03,472 --> 01:09:05,933 because I wasn't making The Matrix films 1419 01:09:06,016 --> 01:09:09,895 as specifically trans narratives. 1420 01:09:10,855 --> 01:09:12,648 One of the most striking things to me 1421 01:09:12,731 --> 01:09:17,736 is the burbling undercurrent of rage 1422 01:09:18,154 --> 01:09:22,241 that I felt, in the end, not being able to be who I was. 1423 01:09:23,826 --> 01:09:29,874 Trying to find myself in media and film was, uh, extremely difficult. 1424 01:09:29,957 --> 01:09:34,920 There was something about Bugs Bunny that activated, in my trans imagination, 1425 01:09:35,004 --> 01:09:36,839 this idea of transformation. 1426 01:09:37,798 --> 01:09:40,843 ♪ I'm hunting wabbits ♪ 1427 01:09:44,180 --> 01:09:46,557 [Susan] You know, when I was growing up in the '60s, 1428 01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:49,518 I watched a lot of television, watched a lot of movies, 1429 01:09:49,602 --> 01:09:51,687 and the only... 1430 01:09:52,730 --> 01:09:57,818 only positive representation I saw of anything transfeminine 1431 01:09:58,194 --> 01:09:59,320 was Bugs Bunny. 1432 01:09:59,403 --> 01:10:02,072 [orchestral music playing] 1433 01:10:03,407 --> 01:10:05,701 [Susan] When Bugs Bunny was doing "girl," 1434 01:10:06,410 --> 01:10:09,413 Bugs Bunny was desirable and was powerful. 1435 01:10:09,872 --> 01:10:12,374 ♪ Oh, Brünnhilde ♪ 1436 01:10:12,458 --> 01:10:15,377 ♪ You're so wovwey ♪ 1437 01:10:15,461 --> 01:10:17,922 ♪ Yes, I know it ♪ 1438 01:10:18,005 --> 01:10:20,633 ♪ I can't help it ♪ 1439 01:10:20,716 --> 01:10:23,260 Bugs Bunny is a character that is born of imagination 1440 01:10:23,344 --> 01:10:26,513 and exists in a space in between me and its creator, 1441 01:10:26,931 --> 01:10:30,893 and therefore is a little bit more accessible to me and my young mind. 1442 01:10:33,979 --> 01:10:36,440 I would always look back on that episode 1443 01:10:36,523 --> 01:10:41,695 with a certain glee about the transformative aspects of it. 1444 01:10:42,738 --> 01:10:45,783 And that Bugs looked, you know, really cute. 1445 01:10:45,866 --> 01:10:46,867 I liked that part. 1446 01:10:46,951 --> 01:10:50,871 ♪ Won't you return my love? ♪ 1447 01:10:51,163 --> 01:10:57,503 ♪ For my love is yours ♪ 1448 01:11:06,887 --> 01:11:08,639 [Lilly] The original trans panic defense... 1449 01:11:09,139 --> 01:11:11,225 I'll kill the wabbit! 1450 01:11:11,308 --> 01:11:12,434 ...in cartoon form. 1451 01:11:12,518 --> 01:11:14,270 [Elmer] Awise, storms! 1452 01:11:15,020 --> 01:11:17,314 [Lilly] The court of Looney Tunes. 1453 01:11:17,856 --> 01:11:19,858 -Well, what did you expect in an opera? -[Elmer sobs] 1454 01:11:19,942 --> 01:11:21,110 A happy ending? 1455 01:11:27,366 --> 01:11:31,161 -[woman speaking French] -[birds singing] 1456 01:11:31,453 --> 01:11:34,206 [Zackary] Ma Vie En Rose is where I actually felt 1457 01:11:34,623 --> 01:11:37,001 that my own story was on the screen, 1458 01:11:37,084 --> 01:11:40,671 because I was that little boy who wanted to be a girl. 1459 01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:45,134 And nobody understood, and nobody knew what to do with me. 1460 01:11:45,217 --> 01:11:46,593 [hair clippers whirring] 1461 01:11:50,139 --> 01:11:52,266 I grew up in Syracuse, New York, 1462 01:11:52,349 --> 01:11:54,268 which is a really isolated place, culturally. 1463 01:11:54,351 --> 01:11:56,979 There was the library, and there was a video store, 1464 01:11:57,062 --> 01:12:00,983 and those were, like, my conduits to a larger world. 1465 01:12:01,066 --> 01:12:03,277 -[song playing on radio] -Could you turn that racket down? 1466 01:12:03,360 --> 01:12:05,863 I'm tryin' to iron in here. 1467 01:12:05,946 --> 01:12:07,448 [Zackary] I was, like, six years old, 1468 01:12:07,531 --> 01:12:10,492 and I remember renting the videotape of Hairspray. 1469 01:12:10,576 --> 01:12:11,952 Okay, young ladies, 1470 01:12:12,036 --> 01:12:14,455 I've heard just about enough of this screeching music. 1471 01:12:14,538 --> 01:12:17,624 And having the sense that, Edna Turnblad... 1472 01:12:17,708 --> 01:12:19,335 There was something different about her. 1473 01:12:19,418 --> 01:12:21,253 -[rock and roll playing] -[rhythmic clapping] 1474 01:12:23,756 --> 01:12:27,051 [Zackary] Divine, in Hairspray, is playing a cis character. 1475 01:12:27,134 --> 01:12:28,093 [laughs] 1476 01:12:28,385 --> 01:12:31,430 So I think that those kinds of, like, slippages 1477 01:12:31,513 --> 01:12:34,099 are really meaningful for a young person. 1478 01:12:35,184 --> 01:12:39,229 I mean, when you look at Holly Woodlawn, and Candy Darling, and Jackie Curtis 1479 01:12:39,313 --> 01:12:40,773 in Paul Morrissey films, 1480 01:12:41,690 --> 01:12:44,193 they were never playing trans characters. 1481 01:12:44,276 --> 01:12:46,987 The actor's gender never comes into it. 1482 01:12:47,654 --> 01:12:48,822 I'm young. 1483 01:12:49,365 --> 01:12:50,657 I wanna live. 1484 01:12:51,700 --> 01:12:54,578 As a young person, when I started to identify as queer, 1485 01:12:54,661 --> 01:12:59,833 I was so captivated by elder queer people. 1486 01:12:59,917 --> 01:13:03,045 And Flawless Sabrina was, like, one of the first people I met 1487 01:13:03,128 --> 01:13:05,964 when I was 18 years old and had just moved to New York City, 1488 01:13:06,048 --> 01:13:08,550 and she was this elderly queen, 1489 01:13:09,551 --> 01:13:10,594 and... 1490 01:13:11,762 --> 01:13:13,097 I was fascinated by her 1491 01:13:13,180 --> 01:13:16,767 and by the history that she unlocked for me. 1492 01:13:17,893 --> 01:13:20,312 [Sabrina] I go up to this queen, and I say, "What's your name?" 1493 01:13:20,979 --> 01:13:22,606 The queen says, "Monique." 1494 01:13:23,273 --> 01:13:25,234 And you say, "That-- That's marvelous, darling, 1495 01:13:25,317 --> 01:13:27,027 but what was your name before?" 1496 01:13:27,111 --> 01:13:30,030 And the queen will look at you straight in the eye and say, 1497 01:13:30,114 --> 01:13:31,782 "There was no before." 1498 01:13:33,992 --> 01:13:36,370 [Zackary] The film The Queen 1499 01:13:36,453 --> 01:13:41,250 was, like, the pinnacle of the drag balls 1500 01:13:41,333 --> 01:13:43,836 that she started doing in 1959. 1501 01:13:43,919 --> 01:13:46,422 But at that point, it was called female impersonation. 1502 01:13:46,505 --> 01:13:48,340 It was illegal. 1503 01:13:49,466 --> 01:13:51,427 Um, she was arrested a whole lot. 1504 01:13:53,887 --> 01:13:56,390 [Laverne] In the 1960s and '70s, 1505 01:13:56,473 --> 01:13:58,851 people could go to an art-house movie theater 1506 01:13:59,351 --> 01:14:01,437 and see real-life trans people, 1507 01:14:03,355 --> 01:14:05,232 but it wasn't until 1990 1508 01:14:05,315 --> 01:14:09,486 that the mainstream took notice of a film that centered trans women of color. 1509 01:14:11,572 --> 01:14:14,116 And that film is Paris is Burning. 1510 01:14:15,451 --> 01:14:17,161 [Junior LaBeija] You see it on channel seven 1511 01:14:17,244 --> 01:14:19,580 between All My Children and Jeopardy, 1512 01:14:20,622 --> 01:14:23,250 Another World, Dallas, and the whole bit. 1513 01:14:23,333 --> 01:14:24,960 An evening bag is a must. 1514 01:14:25,669 --> 01:14:28,505 You have to carry something. No lady is sure at night. 1515 01:14:28,589 --> 01:14:31,717 [MJ] I had seen Paris Is Burning when I was, like, 11, 1516 01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:33,969 but I didn't really understand... 1517 01:14:35,095 --> 01:14:38,015 what I was watching. I just saw beautiful people on the screen. 1518 01:14:38,098 --> 01:14:40,726 -["Got to Be Real" playing] -♪ What you find-ah ♪ 1519 01:14:40,809 --> 01:14:44,813 -♪ I think I love you, baby ♪ -♪ What you feel now ♪ 1520 01:14:44,897 --> 01:14:48,775 [MJ] I didn't hear the words. I just saw the happiness and joy. 1521 01:14:50,152 --> 01:14:55,365 When it fully came to me for actual understanding, 1522 01:14:55,449 --> 01:14:57,910 I was like, "Oh, my God, like... 1523 01:14:58,368 --> 01:15:01,413 These are my sisters up here, but the struggle is real." 1524 01:15:01,497 --> 01:15:03,749 You know, I ran away from my house when I was 14, 1525 01:15:03,832 --> 01:15:06,543 and I've learned all sorts of things, good and bad, 1526 01:15:06,627 --> 01:15:08,462 and how to survive in gay world. 1527 01:15:08,545 --> 01:15:09,838 You know, it's kinda hard. 1528 01:15:09,922 --> 01:15:14,635 It's just, there's so many iconic moments that allowed me to see myself 1529 01:15:15,344 --> 01:15:17,971 as a working-class trans woman in New York City. 1530 01:15:18,055 --> 01:15:22,851 And I'm as free as the wind that's blowing out on this beach. [laughs] 1531 01:15:22,935 --> 01:15:25,020 [Trace] And I remember seeing Paris Is Burning 1532 01:15:25,103 --> 01:15:28,273 and wanting that kind of family bond. 1533 01:15:28,357 --> 01:15:32,110 [both] ♪ I am my own special creation ♪ 1534 01:15:32,194 --> 01:15:33,403 [sighs] 1535 01:15:34,446 --> 01:15:35,572 Oh, my goodness. 1536 01:15:35,906 --> 01:15:38,033 I'm getting warm and fuzzy all over again. 1537 01:15:38,784 --> 01:15:39,618 Uh... 1538 01:15:39,701 --> 01:15:42,871 I discovered ballroom in 1995. I'm 14. 1539 01:15:43,163 --> 01:15:44,748 Going to school. 1540 01:15:45,249 --> 01:15:46,166 School. 1541 01:15:46,583 --> 01:15:49,545 [Marquise] Ballroom, this was a space that was so affirming, 1542 01:15:50,003 --> 01:15:52,548 so validating, so loving. 1543 01:15:52,631 --> 01:15:53,799 [Junior LaBeija] School. 1544 01:15:53,882 --> 01:15:55,884 [audience cheers and applauds] 1545 01:15:55,968 --> 01:15:57,302 I've heard people say things like, 1546 01:15:57,386 --> 01:16:00,472 "Well, there were no trans men in ballroom in the '80s or the '90s." 1547 01:16:00,556 --> 01:16:02,474 Well, no, yeah, there were. [laughs] 1548 01:16:02,558 --> 01:16:06,144 The problem is that there wasn't language for transmasculine communities at all. 1549 01:16:06,728 --> 01:16:08,522 Can I have a few of you over here? 1550 01:16:08,605 --> 01:16:10,816 [Jazzmun] I loved, in Paris Is Burning, 1551 01:16:10,899 --> 01:16:13,151 I love Octavia St. Laurent. 1552 01:16:13,610 --> 01:16:15,195 I wanna be somebody. 1553 01:16:15,487 --> 01:16:17,239 I mean, I am somebody. 1554 01:16:17,322 --> 01:16:20,659 I just wanna be a rich somebody. [laughs] 1555 01:16:20,742 --> 01:16:23,245 [Jazzmun] I could see myself in her, you know. 1556 01:16:23,328 --> 01:16:29,209 I understand, like, why it's important for, uh, specifically trans women of color 1557 01:16:29,293 --> 01:16:31,628 to seek out validation 1558 01:16:31,962 --> 01:16:35,591 in a heteronormative, white, cis world. 1559 01:16:37,968 --> 01:16:40,554 I was in the House of LaBeija. 1560 01:16:40,637 --> 01:16:42,389 [Junior LaBeija] Pepper LaBeija. 1561 01:16:42,681 --> 01:16:44,474 ♪ Pepper LaBeija ♪ 1562 01:16:44,558 --> 01:16:45,934 Give her some walking music. 1563 01:16:46,018 --> 01:16:48,353 [Sandra] I was a part of that family, 1564 01:16:48,937 --> 01:16:52,566 but, at the time, I didn't think I could join in fully. 1565 01:16:53,233 --> 01:16:55,902 Yeah, I was too busy trying to be "real." 1566 01:16:56,445 --> 01:16:59,865 [Junior LaBeija] Get into both of them and see which one is realer. 1567 01:17:01,241 --> 01:17:03,744 I had to separate. I had to make a choice. 1568 01:17:05,537 --> 01:17:06,371 Yeah. 1569 01:17:10,250 --> 01:17:12,669 There was a buzz around the film being made, 1570 01:17:12,753 --> 01:17:15,547 but the kids didn't get any recognition. 1571 01:17:15,964 --> 01:17:18,133 I felt that she took advantage of all of us. 1572 01:17:18,675 --> 01:17:20,510 All of us, you know. 1573 01:17:21,553 --> 01:17:23,347 But I didn't benefit nothing out of it. 1574 01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:25,390 [interviewer] How do you explain how other people 1575 01:17:25,474 --> 01:17:27,601 have been seeing Paris Is Burning as something good? 1576 01:17:27,684 --> 01:17:29,227 Because they're looking outside in. 1577 01:17:29,311 --> 01:17:32,564 Paris Is Burning is, like, their... their motto or something. 1578 01:17:32,648 --> 01:17:36,777 [Laverne] What does it mean to go into cultures that you don't exist in 1579 01:17:36,860 --> 01:17:38,320 and tell those stories? 1580 01:17:38,403 --> 01:17:41,531 And how do we have a critical relationship so that we learn? 1581 01:17:41,615 --> 01:17:43,617 -["Vogue" playing] -Strike a pose. 1582 01:17:43,700 --> 01:17:45,869 [Marquise] I mean, you see a film like Paris Is Burning, 1583 01:17:45,952 --> 01:17:47,913 and then, suddenly, here's Madonna's "Vogue," 1584 01:17:47,996 --> 01:17:49,998 and then people think Madonna created vogue. 1585 01:17:50,082 --> 01:17:51,667 ♪ Come on, vogue ♪ 1586 01:17:53,085 --> 01:17:56,171 ♪ Let your body move to the music ♪ 1587 01:17:56,254 --> 01:17:58,256 -♪ Move to the music ♪ -♪ Hey, hey, hey ♪ 1588 01:17:58,340 --> 01:18:00,008 ♪ Come on, vogue ♪ 1589 01:18:00,801 --> 01:18:01,677 ♪ Vogue ♪ 1590 01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:06,890 You see pop culture appropriate ballroom over and over and over, 1591 01:18:07,432 --> 01:18:12,354 and I think it's important to remember who's from that world... 1592 01:18:14,314 --> 01:18:15,357 and do right by it. 1593 01:18:16,191 --> 01:18:17,651 [cheering and whistling] 1594 01:18:23,990 --> 01:18:25,826 I can be critical of Paris Is Burning, 1595 01:18:25,909 --> 01:18:28,120 but I'm so happy Paris Is Burning also exists. 1596 01:18:29,162 --> 01:18:30,706 And I love the film. 1597 01:18:31,289 --> 01:18:33,875 If you shoot a arrow and it goes real high, 1598 01:18:35,043 --> 01:18:36,628 hooray for you. 1599 01:18:38,130 --> 01:18:41,466 [Sandra] What I had learned from the world of the balls, 1600 01:18:42,050 --> 01:18:43,719 you know, was being grand, 1601 01:18:44,010 --> 01:18:46,388 and I pushed it all out. 1602 01:18:47,305 --> 01:18:51,601 I'm living in my new pronoun that I've... "Stealth." 1603 01:18:52,686 --> 01:18:54,438 -Come here. -[laughs] 1604 01:18:54,521 --> 01:18:56,398 -Come here. -[laughs] 1605 01:18:56,481 --> 01:18:57,482 [laughing] 1606 01:18:57,566 --> 01:19:01,361 [Sandra] Do you know what it's like to go on a set 1607 01:19:02,654 --> 01:19:03,572 and... 1608 01:19:04,072 --> 01:19:05,282 be afraid? 1609 01:19:05,782 --> 01:19:06,783 [chuckles] 1610 01:19:06,867 --> 01:19:10,328 Your head is trying desperately to stay in the scene. 1611 01:19:10,746 --> 01:19:11,872 [doorbell rings] 1612 01:19:12,873 --> 01:19:16,126 You wake up afraid. You go to sleep afraid. 1613 01:19:16,209 --> 01:19:19,045 You're trying to figure out if somebody's gonna drop the bomb 1614 01:19:19,129 --> 01:19:21,715 that day, the next day. When is it gonna happen? 1615 01:19:21,798 --> 01:19:24,676 So, you're just afraid all the time. 1616 01:19:26,136 --> 01:19:28,096 You got so much on the outside. 1617 01:19:29,431 --> 01:19:32,017 We'll just see how much you got on the inside. 1618 01:19:32,100 --> 01:19:35,520 But anyway, I did what I had to do. It was called survival. 1619 01:19:36,104 --> 01:19:37,272 It was called survival. 1620 01:19:39,191 --> 01:19:40,025 I'm all right. 1621 01:19:41,401 --> 01:19:42,861 I will survive. 1622 01:19:43,862 --> 01:19:46,364 [Sandra] I would never think for a moment that I was the only one. 1623 01:19:47,240 --> 01:19:49,493 And you wanna go, and you wanna say, 1624 01:19:49,576 --> 01:19:52,788 "Girl, ain't we somethin'?" 1625 01:19:53,455 --> 01:19:55,332 But, nah, you just left it alone. 1626 01:19:55,415 --> 01:19:58,126 I wish I could've. Man, wouldn't that have been good. 1627 01:20:02,422 --> 01:20:05,675 [Laverne] It is so incredibly empowering for me to know 1628 01:20:05,759 --> 01:20:09,012 that there were people who transitioned decades before me 1629 01:20:09,095 --> 01:20:10,889 and had full careers. 1630 01:20:12,724 --> 01:20:16,394 Ajita Wilson transitioned in the mid '70s. 1631 01:20:16,478 --> 01:20:18,438 Wouldn't you be jealous if I went with another man? 1632 01:20:18,522 --> 01:20:19,981 [man] That's part of the job. 1633 01:20:21,358 --> 01:20:23,860 When the job includes a diamond, it makes things much nicer. 1634 01:20:23,944 --> 01:20:26,071 [Laverne] And also Tracey Africa 1635 01:20:26,404 --> 01:20:30,951 was this incredible model in the 1970s 1636 01:20:31,034 --> 01:20:34,746 who was on a Clairol hair color box and modeled for Essence magazine. 1637 01:20:34,830 --> 01:20:36,414 It's important for me to know 1638 01:20:36,498 --> 01:20:39,584 that these Black trans women were doing it, you know, back in the day, 1639 01:20:39,668 --> 01:20:42,379 and how many more Ajita Wilsons and Tracey Africas 1640 01:20:42,462 --> 01:20:44,756 were out there doing their thing that we don't know about 1641 01:20:44,840 --> 01:20:47,342 because living stealth was the way to survive. 1642 01:20:49,010 --> 01:20:53,139 It wasn't until 2007 that we saw an openly trans woman 1643 01:20:53,223 --> 01:20:56,184 being celebrated for doing it out loud. 1644 01:20:56,685 --> 01:20:59,271 Candis Cayne makes history on Dirty Sexy Money... 1645 01:21:01,648 --> 01:21:04,192 [Candis] My first episode of Dirty Sexy Money, 1646 01:21:04,276 --> 01:21:07,612 I had a big gathering with all of my friends, 1647 01:21:07,696 --> 01:21:10,073 and I was so excited I was gonna be on ABC, 1648 01:21:10,156 --> 01:21:11,616 and there was, like, ten of us, 1649 01:21:11,700 --> 01:21:14,703 and we were all, like, sitting around having a glass of wine. 1650 01:21:15,370 --> 01:21:17,205 -[man] Thank you. -[Candis] And I come on, 1651 01:21:17,289 --> 01:21:20,000 everybody's like, "Yay!" [clapping] 1652 01:21:20,083 --> 01:21:22,252 And then my first line... 1653 01:21:22,335 --> 01:21:24,379 [sighs, in deep voice] I missed you. 1654 01:21:25,422 --> 01:21:27,215 They lowered it two octaves. 1655 01:21:27,299 --> 01:21:28,508 [Carmelita] You haven't called. 1656 01:21:28,592 --> 01:21:30,802 [quietly] It's not good for you to be here. 1657 01:21:31,303 --> 01:21:34,472 And everybody, the loud party, was like, "Ah--" 1658 01:21:37,642 --> 01:21:39,686 It was the most horrifying thing ever. 1659 01:21:40,270 --> 01:21:41,897 I'll come when the party's over, okay? 1660 01:21:41,980 --> 01:21:43,356 Oh, yes, you will. 1661 01:21:44,441 --> 01:21:45,942 [Candis] They did it for one line 1662 01:21:46,026 --> 01:21:50,488 to get the idea that Carmelita was a trans woman. 1663 01:21:51,489 --> 01:21:54,951 Thank God I had chemistry with Billy Baldwin. 1664 01:21:56,578 --> 01:21:58,955 And he's like, "This story line's gonna steal the show." 1665 01:21:59,039 --> 01:22:01,166 [laughs] 1666 01:22:01,249 --> 01:22:02,959 My whole point to this 1667 01:22:03,335 --> 01:22:07,672 is to not only tell trans children 1668 01:22:08,048 --> 01:22:10,759 that they're okay, but their parents. 1669 01:22:10,842 --> 01:22:15,221 That this is just something that some human beings are. 1670 01:22:15,305 --> 01:22:18,391 That moment made me believe it was possible for me, too, 1671 01:22:18,475 --> 01:22:19,935 to be openly trans 1672 01:22:20,018 --> 01:22:21,436 and to... 1673 01:22:22,729 --> 01:22:23,688 to act, 1674 01:22:23,772 --> 01:22:25,148 and, um... 1675 01:22:26,274 --> 01:22:27,150 [exhales] 1676 01:22:27,233 --> 01:22:28,360 ...it was everything. 1677 01:22:28,944 --> 01:22:30,195 A few years later, 1678 01:22:30,278 --> 01:22:35,951 Chaz Bono was nominated for producing Becoming Chaz in 2011. 1679 01:22:36,618 --> 01:22:39,704 [Chaz] I'm doing this, not because I want to see myself on film, 1680 01:22:39,788 --> 01:22:41,498 it's because I wanna try to help people. 1681 01:22:41,581 --> 01:22:45,293 You know, I wanna try to put a face on an issue that people don't understand. 1682 01:22:45,961 --> 01:22:49,589 I didn't transition until 2009. 1683 01:22:50,131 --> 01:22:53,343 So, uh, I went through, 1684 01:22:53,802 --> 01:22:57,472 you know, a very long period, a very dark period, 1685 01:22:57,555 --> 01:22:59,724 of knowing that I was trans 1686 01:22:59,808 --> 01:23:02,310 but not feeling like I could do anything about it. 1687 01:23:02,394 --> 01:23:04,479 I mean, I thought about faking my own death 1688 01:23:04,562 --> 01:23:06,439 -[woman] Oh, Chaz. -Stop! 1689 01:23:06,523 --> 01:23:07,941 Chaz! Why, honey? 1690 01:23:08,024 --> 01:23:10,110 So I could just do this, and nobody would know. 1691 01:23:10,819 --> 01:23:13,279 The good thing was that I got to a point 1692 01:23:13,363 --> 01:23:15,782 of such clarity about it. 1693 01:23:15,865 --> 01:23:17,742 [band playing "Dancing in the Street"] 1694 01:23:23,623 --> 01:23:26,960 ♪ Calling out around the world ♪ 1695 01:23:27,043 --> 01:23:30,130 ♪ Are you ready for a brand-new beat? ♪ 1696 01:23:30,213 --> 01:23:34,843 [Chaz] I felt like I was dancing for the trans community. 1697 01:23:34,926 --> 01:23:39,514 Honestly. I mean, that was my motivation at that point to stay on, 1698 01:23:39,597 --> 01:23:42,100 because I knew that on Dancing with the Stars, 1699 01:23:42,183 --> 01:23:46,146 I would hit an audience that was gonna be larger 1700 01:23:46,229 --> 01:23:49,107 than had ever been in contact with a transgender person 1701 01:23:49,190 --> 01:23:50,734 at that point before. 1702 01:23:50,817 --> 01:23:53,862 So, that kept me really going, 1703 01:23:53,945 --> 01:23:54,821 and it was hard 1704 01:23:54,904 --> 01:23:58,658 because I had to do something that I wasn't good at doing. [laughs] 1705 01:23:58,742 --> 01:24:00,326 ♪ They'll be dancing ♪ 1706 01:24:01,119 --> 01:24:03,288 ♪ Dancing in the street ♪ 1707 01:24:03,371 --> 01:24:04,539 [audience cheering] 1708 01:24:09,502 --> 01:24:12,130 [Tiq] So, you know, Chaz coming out really wasn't that long ago, 1709 01:24:12,964 --> 01:24:16,051 and I contribute that cultural shift to us, 1710 01:24:16,509 --> 01:24:18,762 to the work that all of us here are doing. 1711 01:24:20,847 --> 01:24:24,017 And I'm just really proud of us. We've come so far. 1712 01:24:24,726 --> 01:24:26,478 [audience cheering and applauding] 1713 01:24:27,270 --> 01:24:28,354 [Laverne clears throat] 1714 01:24:28,438 --> 01:24:31,024 [Laverne] I was at a GLAAD event, and my manager said, 1715 01:24:31,107 --> 01:24:34,652 "There's a show about a women's prison on Netflix. It's a web series." 1716 01:24:34,944 --> 01:24:36,279 Then, "There's a part for you." 1717 01:24:36,362 --> 01:24:39,991 At the time, this was 2012, streaming series weren't a thing. 1718 01:24:40,075 --> 01:24:43,203 So I was like, "I have a web... I'm doing a web series on Netflix," 1719 01:24:43,286 --> 01:24:45,330 and, like, I didn't think anybody was gonna see it. 1720 01:24:45,413 --> 01:24:46,748 ♪ The animals ♪ 1721 01:24:46,831 --> 01:24:48,291 ♪ The animals ♪ 1722 01:24:48,374 --> 01:24:50,877 ♪ Trapped, trapped, trapped Till the cage is full ♪ 1723 01:24:51,252 --> 01:24:53,922 [Rain] I heard that there was a new show on Netflix, 1724 01:24:55,173 --> 01:24:57,175 and I knew that it was from the creators of Weeds, 1725 01:24:57,258 --> 01:24:59,052 and I was like, "This is gonna be really good." 1726 01:24:59,135 --> 01:25:01,221 And so, when I first watched it, 1727 01:25:01,763 --> 01:25:02,931 there was Laverne. 1728 01:25:03,014 --> 01:25:04,099 Excuse me. 1729 01:25:04,182 --> 01:25:06,351 -Such pretty hair. -Thank you. 1730 01:25:06,434 --> 01:25:08,937 [Sophia] When those roots start to show, come and see me. 1731 01:25:09,020 --> 01:25:10,647 I'll take good care of you. 1732 01:25:10,730 --> 01:25:11,940 To see that character 1733 01:25:12,023 --> 01:25:13,983 over the, now, years... 1734 01:25:15,735 --> 01:25:18,279 The complexities, the backstory, 1735 01:25:18,363 --> 01:25:21,533 the power that she's, kind of, given. 1736 01:25:21,616 --> 01:25:24,994 In the Black community, the hairdresser, it's the pinnacle, right? 1737 01:25:25,078 --> 01:25:27,330 And the fact that there's a Black trans woman running this? 1738 01:25:27,413 --> 01:25:28,998 That was amazing to me. 1739 01:25:29,082 --> 01:25:31,292 You really wanna be calling me a lady-man 1740 01:25:31,376 --> 01:25:33,211 when I got a fistful of your hair in my hand? 1741 01:25:33,294 --> 01:25:35,547 [Jazzmun] At the same time, you know, she's still in jail, 1742 01:25:35,630 --> 01:25:39,634 and she's still a problem in society. You know, she's still a menace to society. 1743 01:25:39,717 --> 01:25:41,928 It's not like she's changing people's lives, you know, 1744 01:25:42,011 --> 01:25:44,389 by doing their-- these-- these prisoners' hair. 1745 01:25:44,722 --> 01:25:46,599 So, come on, but... 1746 01:25:47,016 --> 01:25:48,685 she's such a smart woman. 1747 01:25:48,768 --> 01:25:50,186 I'm a big fan, 1748 01:25:50,562 --> 01:25:52,856 and I like how she took it to another level. 1749 01:25:52,939 --> 01:25:54,274 [audience cheering] 1750 01:25:55,650 --> 01:25:59,612 [Trace] For me, it was like seeing a trans woman winning 1751 01:26:00,280 --> 01:26:01,906 while being trans. 1752 01:26:02,323 --> 01:26:05,243 And the only other reference point I had for that 1753 01:26:05,326 --> 01:26:07,704 was maybe Candis Cayne on Dirty Sexy Money. 1754 01:26:08,163 --> 01:26:11,291 Maybe the occasional guest spot by Alexandra Billings. 1755 01:26:11,374 --> 01:26:14,252 If people were really one in Christ, how could my boyfriend have left me 1756 01:26:14,335 --> 01:26:15,420 after the operation? 1757 01:26:15,503 --> 01:26:16,588 [Trace] Or Jazzmun. 1758 01:26:16,671 --> 01:26:19,841 I'll serve, you explain, and do not go easy on that person. 1759 01:26:20,258 --> 01:26:21,551 [Trace] Or Lady Chablis. 1760 01:26:21,634 --> 01:26:25,013 Okay, baby. Yes, I am a bitch, and proud of it, honey. 1761 01:26:25,096 --> 01:26:28,099 But not at this magnitude. 1762 01:26:28,183 --> 01:26:31,311 She is an Emmy-nominated actress, a human rights activist, 1763 01:26:31,394 --> 01:26:32,645 an all-around icon-- 1764 01:26:32,729 --> 01:26:33,855 Laverne... 1765 01:26:33,938 --> 01:26:34,772 -Cox! -Cox! 1766 01:26:34,856 --> 01:26:36,524 Oh, my goodness. 1767 01:26:36,608 --> 01:26:38,193 -[audience cheering] -Oh! 1768 01:26:38,276 --> 01:26:40,445 [Laverne] What I have been so blessed by 1769 01:26:40,528 --> 01:26:42,280 is all the folks who... 1770 01:26:42,947 --> 01:26:45,450 have empathy for the character that I play, 1771 01:26:45,533 --> 01:26:50,997 and then find themselves having empathy for the actress who plays her. And... 1772 01:26:51,873 --> 01:26:53,583 I would argue that that doesn't... 1773 01:26:54,083 --> 01:26:56,836 always happen when cis people play us. 1774 01:26:57,462 --> 01:26:58,963 First I saw Laverne Cox, 1775 01:26:59,047 --> 01:27:01,341 just took my head and just spun it right on around. 1776 01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:05,053 And then I saw another film. 1777 01:27:05,762 --> 01:27:07,597 I said, "What's... What's happening? 1778 01:27:07,805 --> 01:27:10,767 Did... Did we overcome and nobody told me? What's happening?" 1779 01:27:10,850 --> 01:27:12,393 I think right now it's very urgent 1780 01:27:12,477 --> 01:27:14,646 to connect through stories, and-- and new stories. 1781 01:27:16,731 --> 01:27:18,608 [Sandra] And then I saw some more, and I'm going, 1782 01:27:18,691 --> 01:27:21,903 "What is going on? How are the children doing this?" 1783 01:27:24,197 --> 01:27:27,492 [Zackary] It was August, 2013, 1784 01:27:27,575 --> 01:27:31,829 that we shot the pilot for Transparent. 1785 01:27:32,538 --> 01:27:37,835 And I think it was a really untraditional set, you know, 1786 01:27:37,919 --> 01:27:39,128 and process. 1787 01:27:40,296 --> 01:27:42,882 Just the amount of trans people that were employed 1788 01:27:42,966 --> 01:27:45,426 and being brought into the fold of Hollywood 1789 01:27:45,510 --> 01:27:47,387 and decision-maker positions. 1790 01:27:47,470 --> 01:27:51,766 Like, they weren't just consultants, they were producers. 1791 01:27:52,684 --> 01:27:54,727 -Why the fuck did you bring me here? -[Josh] What? 1792 01:27:54,811 --> 01:27:57,480 I brought you here because it seemed fun. 1793 01:27:57,563 --> 01:27:58,564 -This is fun. -[Shea] Fun? 1794 01:27:58,648 --> 01:27:59,899 -Yeah, you seem fun. -[Shea] Fun? 1795 01:27:59,983 --> 01:28:02,735 -Like a sex worker "good time" fun, Josh? -[Josh] No. 1796 01:28:02,819 --> 01:28:05,780 Okay, well, now that you mention it, I did pay for all this. 1797 01:28:06,197 --> 01:28:07,448 Fuck you, Josh. 1798 01:28:09,367 --> 01:28:12,662 I see right through you, and I'm not your fucking adventure! 1799 01:28:14,038 --> 01:28:17,542 I'm a person. I'm not your fucking adventure! 1800 01:28:18,167 --> 01:28:20,378 -[audience applauds] -And the Emmy goes to... 1801 01:28:21,045 --> 01:28:22,338 Let's say Jeffrey Tambor. 1802 01:28:25,550 --> 01:28:28,678 [interviewer] Trace, you came forward as a member of the Me Too movement. 1803 01:28:28,761 --> 01:28:31,597 I'm talking about being sexually harassed by Jeffrey Tambor 1804 01:28:31,681 --> 01:28:33,474 on the set of Transparent. 1805 01:28:33,558 --> 01:28:34,934 I spoke the truth, 1806 01:28:35,518 --> 01:28:39,772 and I was blessed to have you with me, 1807 01:28:39,856 --> 01:28:44,360 and I appreciate you so much for going through that with me. 1808 01:28:46,279 --> 01:28:48,072 [interviewer] Are you surprised he's continuing to work? 1809 01:28:48,156 --> 01:28:50,366 No, uh, because we're trans. 1810 01:28:50,450 --> 01:28:53,328 And so I'm used to people not wanting to believe us. 1811 01:28:56,080 --> 01:28:57,165 If you're going to... 1812 01:28:58,124 --> 01:29:01,377 choose to insert yourself 1813 01:29:01,461 --> 01:29:03,713 in the telling of a particular community's story, 1814 01:29:03,796 --> 01:29:07,342 or you want to help a particular community tell their story, 1815 01:29:07,425 --> 01:29:09,844 you need to realize the privileges that you have, 1816 01:29:10,178 --> 01:29:14,057 and you need to realize that life for them is different. 1817 01:29:16,559 --> 01:29:18,603 Please welcome Carmen Carrera. 1818 01:29:18,686 --> 01:29:20,772 [audience cheering and applauding] 1819 01:29:25,193 --> 01:29:26,361 -[Carmen] Hi! -Hi! 1820 01:29:26,444 --> 01:29:30,156 [Laverne] I was backstage. Carmen was on, being interviewed by Katie, 1821 01:29:30,239 --> 01:29:33,201 and Katie asked Carmen... 1822 01:29:33,284 --> 01:29:34,994 Your... your private parts 1823 01:29:35,078 --> 01:29:37,038 -are different now, aren't they? -[Carmen] Shh. 1824 01:29:37,121 --> 01:29:38,498 I don't want to talk about it 1825 01:29:38,581 --> 01:29:41,042 because it's-- it's still... it's really personal. 1826 01:29:41,125 --> 01:29:42,919 And, um... I don't know. 1827 01:29:43,002 --> 01:29:44,879 I just-- I'd rather talk about my modeling stuff, 1828 01:29:44,962 --> 01:29:46,381 I'd rather talk about being in W, 1829 01:29:46,464 --> 01:29:48,216 and being, you know, maybe in Italian Vogue, 1830 01:29:48,299 --> 01:29:49,967 and doing fun stuff and... 1831 01:29:50,051 --> 01:29:52,470 and showing people that after their transition, 1832 01:29:52,553 --> 01:29:54,138 there's still life to live. 1833 01:29:54,764 --> 01:29:56,599 [Laverne] And I was backstage, and I was like... 1834 01:29:56,682 --> 01:29:58,476 [gasps] "Okay. Here we go." 1835 01:29:58,559 --> 01:30:00,853 [Katie] You know, I think all of us want to be educated, 1836 01:30:00,937 --> 01:30:02,188 and Carmen was sort of... 1837 01:30:02,271 --> 01:30:05,775 uh, recoiled a little bit when I asked her about her transition, 1838 01:30:05,858 --> 01:30:08,903 and I'm wondering if you have the same feelings about that that Carmen does? 1839 01:30:08,986 --> 01:30:11,072 I do. I was very proud of you for saying that. 1840 01:30:11,489 --> 01:30:14,909 The preoccupation with transition and with surgery objectifies trans people, 1841 01:30:14,992 --> 01:30:18,204 and then we don't get to really deal with the real lived experiences. 1842 01:30:18,287 --> 01:30:20,706 The reality of-- of trans people's lives 1843 01:30:20,790 --> 01:30:23,042 is that so often we're targets of violence. 1844 01:30:23,126 --> 01:30:24,252 We experience discrimination 1845 01:30:24,335 --> 01:30:26,838 disproportionately to the rest of the community. 1846 01:30:26,921 --> 01:30:28,297 And when we focus on transition, 1847 01:30:28,381 --> 01:30:30,341 we don't actually get to talk about those things. 1848 01:30:31,426 --> 01:30:34,095 [Laverne] Because people might get dragged on Twitter, 1849 01:30:34,178 --> 01:30:36,597 people will avoid a subject altogether 1850 01:30:36,681 --> 01:30:41,018 or become reactionary or... or bitter or angry, 1851 01:30:41,102 --> 01:30:42,520 and Katie really did the opposite. 1852 01:30:42,603 --> 01:30:46,065 I want to use this as a teachable moment, not only for myself, 1853 01:30:46,149 --> 01:30:50,528 but how do we explain, sort of, what is the appropriate conversation 1854 01:30:50,611 --> 01:30:52,572 and how do we make people feel 1855 01:30:52,655 --> 01:30:55,825 if we don't have an example of what you shouldn't do? 1856 01:30:57,034 --> 01:31:00,037 [Angelica] You see a fierceness coming from the girls that are coming up now. 1857 01:31:00,496 --> 01:31:02,707 That's because we understand we ain't got nothing to lose. 1858 01:31:02,790 --> 01:31:05,293 I already done lost that job, I done lost that job. 1859 01:31:05,668 --> 01:31:09,005 So I'm only gonna gain by being authentic and by telling the truth. 1860 01:31:13,468 --> 01:31:15,470 -...who arrived, baby. -Hello. 1861 01:31:15,553 --> 01:31:16,596 How are you doing? 1862 01:31:16,679 --> 01:31:18,973 -You made it. -Yes, I did. Hi. How are you? 1863 01:31:19,640 --> 01:31:21,851 [Zeke] You can say what you want about Caitlyn Jenner's politics, 1864 01:31:21,934 --> 01:31:24,896 you can say what you want about the Kardashians ruining America. 1865 01:31:24,979 --> 01:31:26,731 I Am Cait's not really about Caitlyn. 1866 01:31:26,814 --> 01:31:27,732 [plays notes] 1867 01:31:27,815 --> 01:31:29,150 [Caitlyn] Oh, no. 1868 01:31:29,233 --> 01:31:31,068 [Zeke] It is about this remarkable, 1869 01:31:31,152 --> 01:31:32,987 brilliant group of trans women 1870 01:31:33,279 --> 01:31:35,448 who are having conversations with one another. 1871 01:31:35,531 --> 01:31:38,117 Which Republican candidate do you think will be most supportive 1872 01:31:38,201 --> 01:31:39,327 of transgender people? 1873 01:31:39,410 --> 01:31:41,287 [Caitlyn] Um... all of 'em. 1874 01:31:41,871 --> 01:31:43,372 [laughs] 1875 01:31:43,915 --> 01:31:46,334 [Caitlyn] Yeah. They don't... Don't think the Republicans... 1876 01:31:46,417 --> 01:31:48,586 "Oh, I hate trans people," or "I hate gays." 1877 01:31:48,669 --> 01:31:49,670 Don't think of that. 1878 01:31:50,129 --> 01:31:52,507 I find it really problematic that they say 1879 01:31:52,590 --> 01:31:55,593 trans, you know, activist or advocate Caitlyn Jenner saying this. 1880 01:31:55,676 --> 01:31:58,387 No, it's Caitlyn Jenner, who's a very specific person, 1881 01:31:58,471 --> 01:31:59,972 with a specific set of experiences 1882 01:32:00,056 --> 01:32:02,767 that are very monied, very white, very privileged. 1883 01:32:02,850 --> 01:32:05,061 I stridently disagree with all of her views. 1884 01:32:05,144 --> 01:32:07,730 The fact is is that her show did a lot of good. 1885 01:32:07,813 --> 01:32:10,024 [Candis] I'm as well adjusted as I am 1886 01:32:10,107 --> 01:32:12,735 because my parents, from the very beginning, 1887 01:32:13,110 --> 01:32:14,570 were completely supportive, 1888 01:32:14,987 --> 01:32:16,822 so I applaud you guys for being here. 1889 01:32:16,906 --> 01:32:18,032 [Jen] And there was a scene 1890 01:32:18,115 --> 01:32:21,285 where there were parents talking about their kids. 1891 01:32:21,369 --> 01:32:24,288 If you have a transgender kid, you are living with a unicorn, 1892 01:32:24,372 --> 01:32:26,541 an amazing human being. 1893 01:32:26,624 --> 01:32:31,420 To be next to someone so brave, so cool, so close to themselves. 1894 01:32:31,504 --> 01:32:34,215 The reality is Avery has been on point 1895 01:32:34,298 --> 01:32:35,925 from age two, apparently. Know what I mean? 1896 01:32:36,008 --> 01:32:39,470 -So, the reality is it's such an honor. -[woman] It's so true what he's saying. 1897 01:32:39,554 --> 01:32:41,222 [Jen] I was watching this father, 1898 01:32:42,014 --> 01:32:43,933 and it just... it hurt because... 1899 01:32:44,725 --> 01:32:50,356 I had to be okay with my mom saying, "I will never call you Jen 1900 01:32:50,439 --> 01:32:52,316 because Jen murdered my son." 1901 01:32:53,067 --> 01:32:57,405 I had to-- I had to be okay with that in order to survive myself, you know? 1902 01:32:57,947 --> 01:33:02,076 In order to deal with not being able to see my grandma before she died 1903 01:33:02,451 --> 01:33:05,079 because I could only come home if I dressed as a boy. 1904 01:33:05,913 --> 01:33:06,872 You know. 1905 01:33:06,956 --> 01:33:09,834 I had to deal with the fact that one of my best friends, 1906 01:33:09,917 --> 01:33:13,337 who, like, I stood up at his wedding, won't let me meet his children. 1907 01:33:13,963 --> 01:33:17,592 I have to deal with those things. Like, I have to live with those things. 1908 01:33:17,883 --> 01:33:19,427 And I have to make that okay. 1909 01:33:19,510 --> 01:33:22,638 I have to understand their position and be okay with it. 1910 01:33:23,264 --> 01:33:24,932 And when I saw that father 1911 01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:28,394 go so much further than I thought was even possible, 1912 01:33:28,978 --> 01:33:30,354 it hurt, I couldn't bear it, 1913 01:33:30,438 --> 01:33:33,274 because then, all of a sudden, all those people 1914 01:33:34,066 --> 01:33:35,651 who couldn't accept me, 1915 01:33:36,569 --> 01:33:39,238 when I knew it was possible to go beyond acceptance... 1916 01:33:40,656 --> 01:33:42,241 Why couldn't my mom have been like him? 1917 01:33:42,325 --> 01:33:44,785 That's the question I never asked until that moment. 1918 01:33:44,869 --> 01:33:46,579 Why couldn't my mom have been like him? 1919 01:33:46,662 --> 01:33:48,789 Why couldn't my friends have been like him 1920 01:33:48,873 --> 01:33:51,000 and seen the value in my experience? 1921 01:33:52,376 --> 01:33:56,422 But the person who's most responsible for failing to have that kind of vision 1922 01:33:56,505 --> 01:33:57,465 is me. 1923 01:33:58,049 --> 01:34:01,594 I have never seen myself the way that father saw his own child. 1924 01:34:01,677 --> 01:34:03,262 I'd never seen myself that way. 1925 01:34:03,346 --> 01:34:05,765 I'd never looked at myself with the kind of... 1926 01:34:06,390 --> 01:34:11,646 love and respect and awe that that father had for his own child. 1927 01:34:12,188 --> 01:34:15,358 No one's looked at me that way. How could I look at me that way? 1928 01:34:17,693 --> 01:34:18,694 I had to see it. 1929 01:34:19,362 --> 01:34:21,364 And now that I have, I want that. 1930 01:34:22,448 --> 01:34:25,326 [inhales deeply, exhales] 1931 01:34:27,745 --> 01:34:28,829 [audience cheering] 1932 01:34:30,831 --> 01:34:33,376 [Yance] Marian Wright Edelman said, 1933 01:34:33,876 --> 01:34:37,129 "Children cannot be what they cannot see." 1934 01:34:38,255 --> 01:34:40,174 And it's not just about children. 1935 01:34:40,716 --> 01:34:41,884 It's about all of us. 1936 01:34:43,052 --> 01:34:45,012 We cannot be a better society 1937 01:34:46,055 --> 01:34:48,099 until we see that better society. 1938 01:34:48,182 --> 01:34:50,017 I cannot be in the world 1939 01:34:51,060 --> 01:34:53,062 until I see that I am in the world. 1940 01:34:55,940 --> 01:34:59,193 For a long time, I was afraid to be who I am 1941 01:34:59,276 --> 01:35:01,404 because I was taught by my parents 1942 01:35:01,821 --> 01:35:05,616 that there's something wrong with someone like me. 1943 01:35:05,700 --> 01:35:09,620 Nomi, as a character, was the first, uh, time 1944 01:35:09,704 --> 01:35:14,500 that we had explicitly put a trans person in our writing. 1945 01:35:14,583 --> 01:35:19,547 She was a character that I had aspirations to being. 1946 01:35:19,630 --> 01:35:25,886 There's something that is funny about the magic trick of... 1947 01:35:27,054 --> 01:35:30,933 creating something out of thin air, 1948 01:35:32,017 --> 01:35:37,815 and then using that thing as, like, this handhold to pull yourself forward. 1949 01:35:38,607 --> 01:35:40,526 And that's what Nomi was for me, yeah. 1950 01:35:41,569 --> 01:35:43,237 [orchestra playing] 1951 01:35:47,283 --> 01:35:50,327 I'm so proud of Nomi Marks. 1952 01:35:50,411 --> 01:35:53,998 Her character was not defined by her transness. 1953 01:35:54,081 --> 01:35:55,291 You love her a lot. 1954 01:35:57,918 --> 01:35:59,587 [Jamie] Her relationship with Amanita 1955 01:35:59,670 --> 01:36:02,423 transcended everything that I had ever known 1956 01:36:02,506 --> 01:36:03,716 a relationship could be. 1957 01:36:04,216 --> 01:36:06,135 There's no way that I couldn't just... 1958 01:36:07,011 --> 01:36:10,014 This. Just every time that I think about... 1959 01:36:10,598 --> 01:36:13,058 "Nomanita." [laughs] 1960 01:36:16,937 --> 01:36:17,897 Focus, children. 1961 01:36:19,565 --> 01:36:22,568 It is time we remind the world who we are. 1962 01:36:23,402 --> 01:36:26,447 Royalty. But we should all walk it together. 1963 01:36:26,530 --> 01:36:29,950 When Pose happened, I never thought in a million years that... 1964 01:36:30,409 --> 01:36:31,869 our stories would be... 1965 01:36:33,662 --> 01:36:35,122 placed on a platform 1966 01:36:35,664 --> 01:36:37,875 that had mainstream on top of it. 1967 01:36:38,959 --> 01:36:39,919 We have a challenge... 1968 01:36:40,669 --> 01:36:43,756 for the legendary children of the House of Abundance. 1969 01:36:43,839 --> 01:36:45,090 [cheering] 1970 01:36:47,593 --> 01:36:49,094 [Laverne] Pose is different... 1971 01:36:50,095 --> 01:36:51,055 because... 1972 01:36:51,931 --> 01:36:53,808 they're stories that center... 1973 01:36:55,392 --> 01:36:56,811 Black trans women 1974 01:36:56,894 --> 01:36:59,271 on a mainstream TV network. 1975 01:36:59,855 --> 01:37:02,066 This must give you some satisfaction. 1976 01:37:02,775 --> 01:37:03,609 You won. 1977 01:37:03,692 --> 01:37:06,487 None of us win when one of us gets beat down, 1978 01:37:06,946 --> 01:37:09,114 even someone who had the beatdown coming to them. 1979 01:37:09,198 --> 01:37:10,616 [MJ] Being directed and written for 1980 01:37:10,699 --> 01:37:12,910 by trans individuals on the show is amazing, 1981 01:37:12,993 --> 01:37:16,539 because it felt like we were all included 1982 01:37:16,872 --> 01:37:19,708 and people took our minds seriously. 1983 01:37:20,292 --> 01:37:22,837 And also being around people who are like you. 1984 01:37:22,920 --> 01:37:24,797 -I should join your house. -I'm just sayin'. 1985 01:37:24,880 --> 01:37:26,757 [laughing] 1986 01:37:27,883 --> 01:37:31,053 [Tiq] There's trans folks everywhere. You know, trans folks who are consulting, 1987 01:37:31,136 --> 01:37:33,264 trans folks who are writing and producing and directing. 1988 01:37:33,347 --> 01:37:37,101 That really lent to the stories being really complex 1989 01:37:37,184 --> 01:37:39,478 and being really endearing and really inspired. 1990 01:37:39,562 --> 01:37:42,147 Even, like, the sex scenes... honey! 1991 01:37:42,231 --> 01:37:44,483 ["Let's Wait Awhile" playing on radio] 1992 01:37:46,819 --> 01:37:49,405 [Elliot] The most casual sex 1993 01:37:49,488 --> 01:37:52,324 I have ever seen a trans person have on television. 1994 01:37:53,951 --> 01:37:56,036 Could have gone so horribly wrong, 1995 01:37:56,120 --> 01:37:59,748 and I'm so glad it went so, so right. [laughs] 1996 01:37:59,832 --> 01:38:01,834 [audience cheers] 1997 01:38:02,585 --> 01:38:05,671 [Marquise] It's created so many opportunities for community, 1998 01:38:05,754 --> 01:38:08,299 and so, there has to be a moment in time 1999 01:38:08,382 --> 01:38:10,551 where, like, transmasculinity... It has to be included. 2000 01:38:10,634 --> 01:38:13,387 It's a part of ballroom. We are a part of that history and the culture. 2001 01:38:13,470 --> 01:38:18,392 ♪ Living here in this brand-new world ♪ 2002 01:38:18,475 --> 01:38:23,397 ♪ Might be a fantasy ♪ 2003 01:38:24,064 --> 01:38:26,901 [Janet] When you look to the past, you can learn a lot about your present. 2004 01:38:26,984 --> 01:38:30,779 For me, I saw that HIV/AIDS, poverty, 2005 01:38:30,863 --> 01:38:32,156 harassment, and violence 2006 01:38:32,239 --> 01:38:35,576 are things that they were dealing with in '87 as well as today. 2007 01:38:36,076 --> 01:38:38,203 And so, knowing that 26 trans people 2008 01:38:38,287 --> 01:38:41,040 were murdered in the United States last year, 2009 01:38:41,123 --> 01:38:42,875 almost all of them women of color, 2010 01:38:42,958 --> 01:38:44,960 I thought it was important that we memorialize 2011 01:38:45,044 --> 01:38:47,129 the people who... who we've learned so much from, 2012 01:38:47,212 --> 01:38:49,340 the people who've contributed so much to our movement. 2013 01:38:55,930 --> 01:38:58,974 [Angelica] Movies, these things make us feel sometimes. 2014 01:38:59,058 --> 01:39:01,769 And movies, sometimes we walk into a theater, and we wanna be changed. 2015 01:39:02,770 --> 01:39:06,941 But we need this change to happen in real life, in real time. 2016 01:39:10,611 --> 01:39:12,237 [Laverne] When I think about Pose 2017 01:39:12,321 --> 01:39:15,282 and that one of the creators of the show is Ryan Murphy, 2018 01:39:15,366 --> 01:39:17,409 and I think about shows like Nip/Tuck, 2019 01:39:17,493 --> 01:39:20,287 I get excited because I think that people can evolve. 2020 01:39:21,080 --> 01:39:23,332 You know, I think about Janet Mock's interview with Oprah. 2021 01:39:23,415 --> 01:39:27,795 I think it's so interesting that it took you the time that it took you 2022 01:39:28,087 --> 01:39:31,006 to become comfortable with telling your story. 2023 01:39:31,340 --> 01:39:34,259 That was very different than Oprah's interview with Lea T. 2024 01:39:34,593 --> 01:39:36,053 Lea T was born a boy. 2025 01:39:36,136 --> 01:39:39,139 So, folks can evolve, and I think that a moment shifts 2026 01:39:39,223 --> 01:39:40,474 and awareness shifts. 2027 01:39:45,062 --> 01:39:46,438 [Sandra laughs] My, uh... 2028 01:39:46,522 --> 01:39:49,400 My outing was in the New York Times. 2029 01:39:52,069 --> 01:39:52,945 Whew. 2030 01:39:53,487 --> 01:39:54,321 Mmm. 2031 01:39:57,116 --> 01:39:59,034 Look at me now. [laughs] 2032 01:39:59,118 --> 01:40:01,412 It was... It was so frightening. 2033 01:40:01,495 --> 01:40:05,708 Then I started having meetings with ABC and NBC, 2034 01:40:05,791 --> 01:40:08,127 and, yes, Fox. 2035 01:40:08,877 --> 01:40:09,962 Who knew? 2036 01:40:10,754 --> 01:40:11,672 Who knew? 2037 01:40:12,089 --> 01:40:13,674 I, for the first time... 2038 01:40:14,341 --> 01:40:15,801 Here's the emotional part. 2039 01:40:16,218 --> 01:40:19,513 ...got to say loudly and clearly, 2040 01:40:20,431 --> 01:40:21,765 at an audition, 2041 01:40:22,057 --> 01:40:23,767 that I'm a trans woman. 2042 01:40:23,851 --> 01:40:25,394 [crowd cheers and applauds] 2043 01:40:32,192 --> 01:40:34,778 My mother, she's so happy, 'cause she now can breathe. 2044 01:40:34,862 --> 01:40:38,073 She said, "Nobody's gonna do anything to you anymore. It's all... 2045 01:40:38,157 --> 01:40:39,241 It's all good." 2046 01:40:39,700 --> 01:40:43,620 Well, not quite, Mom. It's, you know. Work still has to be done. 2047 01:40:50,711 --> 01:40:52,671 [Laverne] We always have to be really skeptical 2048 01:40:52,755 --> 01:40:55,049 when a few people are elevated 2049 01:40:55,799 --> 01:40:58,802 and the majority of people are still struggling. 2050 01:41:02,639 --> 01:41:05,059 [Chase] The trans person on the red carpet, 2051 01:41:05,142 --> 01:41:09,730 or the trans character on television and film, 2052 01:41:09,813 --> 01:41:12,274 those sort of representations of transness 2053 01:41:12,357 --> 01:41:15,235 may incite rage in a viewer. 2054 01:41:15,527 --> 01:41:18,280 And that viewer doesn't have access to the character. 2055 01:41:18,363 --> 01:41:20,574 They have access to the person on the street. 2056 01:41:26,455 --> 01:41:31,502 I think that makes it especially important for us 2057 01:41:31,585 --> 01:41:34,338 to be pushing for actual material redistribution. 2058 01:41:34,421 --> 01:41:36,048 Otherwise, all we're doing 2059 01:41:36,131 --> 01:41:39,551 is elevating some people into the sphere of the powerful 2060 01:41:39,635 --> 01:41:42,971 and not in any way working to disrupt the systems 2061 01:41:43,055 --> 01:41:46,558 that exclude most trans people from material survival. 2062 01:41:52,272 --> 01:41:54,066 There is still a lot of work to do, 2063 01:41:54,441 --> 01:41:59,571 and we can't think that just because you see trans representation 2064 01:42:00,030 --> 01:42:01,698 that the revolution is over. 2065 01:42:03,575 --> 01:42:05,410 You know. It's not. 2066 01:42:05,494 --> 01:42:08,163 Things can spin on a dime. [snaps fingers] 2067 01:42:13,669 --> 01:42:15,629 Having positive representation 2068 01:42:15,712 --> 01:42:19,883 can only succeed in changing the conditions of life for trans people 2069 01:42:19,967 --> 01:42:23,428 when it is part of a much broader movement for social change. 2070 01:42:24,721 --> 01:42:27,432 Changing representation is not the goal. 2071 01:42:28,517 --> 01:42:30,936 It's just the means to an end. 2072 01:42:33,188 --> 01:42:35,941 [Laverne] I wonder if people who watch and love these shows, 2073 01:42:36,024 --> 01:42:38,527 I wonder if they will reach out to trans people in need 2074 01:42:38,610 --> 01:42:40,904 and work to defeat policies that scapegoat us, 2075 01:42:41,989 --> 01:42:43,866 policies that discriminate against us, 2076 01:42:44,449 --> 01:42:46,410 policies that dehumanize us. 2077 01:42:47,035 --> 01:42:48,495 Because until that happens, 2078 01:42:48,829 --> 01:42:51,081 all that energy from the silver screen 2079 01:42:51,165 --> 01:42:52,332 won't be enough 2080 01:42:52,416 --> 01:42:55,836 to better the lives of trans people off the screen. 2081 01:42:55,919 --> 01:42:57,880 [reflective instrumental music playing] 2082 01:43:15,898 --> 01:43:19,651 [reflective instrumental music continues playing]