-For six years in the '90s,
Herb Abrams' UWF blazed across the wrestling landscape,
parading some of the biggest names
in the business along the way.
But before you could say "bounced check,"
it was over.
I'm Chris Gethard, and tonight, I'm joined
by wrestling legends "Dangerous" Dan Spivey,
the First Lady of wrestling, Missy Hyatt, and B. Brian Blair
as we discuss the fast rise and spectacular fall
of the man behind the Universal Wrestling Federation.
"Mr. Electricity," Herb Abrams.
This is "Dark Side of the Ring: After Dark."
♪♪
Welcome, everyone.
Last week on "Dark Side of the Ring,"
we were introduced,
or for some of us, reintroduced
to a man named Herb Abrams.
Now, in 1990, he decided he wanted
to take on Vince McMahon's wrestling empire
by starting his own league.
Don't worry.
He had a lot of experience
running a chain of plus-sized women's clothing stores,
but somehow he got a national TV distribution deal,
and the Universal Wrestling Federation was born.
We're gonna talk about the wild life of Herb Abrams
and what it was like wrestling in the UWF.
We also have a bunch of never-before-seen-in-the-US
cut scenes from the documentary,
But first, let's meet our outstanding panel.
This guy used to scare me as a kid.
He was one half of The Skyscrapers
with "Mean" Mark Callous, A.K.A. The Undertaker.
Hello, Dangerous Dan Spivey.
-Hi, Chris. Thanks for having me on.
I'm glad that I scared you back in the day,
because that means I was doing my job.
-You really did the job quite well.
You're also the only holder
of the UWF America's championship belt.
So we have a lot to talk about.
Our next guest needs no introduction.
She's the First Lady of wrestling.
She's managed everybody -- Sting, The Steiner Brothers,
Eddie Gilbert, many more.
Missy Hyatt, welcome to the show.
-Hey, thank you for having me.
And I'm here from the Redneck Riviera,
saying hello. [ Laughs ]
-Beautiful. Beautiful. Now, let's jump in.
There's so much to talk about.
This was the story I knew the least about this season
before watching the documentary.
Now, Missy, you've crossed paths with everyone in wrestling.
When you think about Herb Abrams,
what makes him unique, in your mind?
-Oh, my gosh.
Well, you know, I had just left that WCW,
and I didn't know a lot of different promoters,
but he called me, and he tells me to come --
I was gonna go to the Blackjack Brawl,
and he said, "You can't wear perfume or lipstick around me."
And I thought that was a little strange.
So, I was like, "Okay."
-We researched him and heard that was a phobia of his,
And not to speak ill of the dead,
but he was such a character.
For a guy who liked call girls so much,
no perfume is such a strange phobia to have.
-Yeah. Very strange. Very strange.
-And, Dan, you were one of his first recruits, I've read.
You actually at the first-ever UWF press conference.
When things are starting off,
are the boys excited about this guy's energy?
Are there red flags immediately?
-Yeah, I got a call from Brian, telling me about this guy
that this guy really wanted to talk to him,
And so I gave him a call, and what a salesman he was.
He was really enthusiastic.
He had some really good ideas
and told me he was gonna make me his champion,
and, you know, he was just --
he painted a pretty picture.
He really did at the beginning.
-Again, in researching it,
one thing the doc didn't really get into
is that he had a whole bunch of shows,
where he'd book them,
the wrestlers show up, and then they got cancelled.
Sometimes, he didn't get the right permits.
Sometimes, the venue owners had a problem with him.
When you guys travelled to a city
and the show gets canceled once you're already there,
that must be one of the most infuriating things
a wrestler can deal with.
-[ Chuckles ] Yes, it was.
It was it was very disappointing.
But, you know,
I didn't really worry about it at first.
I just thought he made some beginner's mistakes,
but, you know, I was still kind of leery.
That's why I held his belt for ransom,
because if he didn't pay me,
I wasn't gonna give his belt back to him.
He loved that belt, so I had some collateral.
I mean, the thing with Herb was, at the beginning, you know,
he acted like a smart businessman,
and he conducted himself that way.
There was no drugs in the beginning,
none of the craziness that led on later on,
but in the beginning, he was pretty smart,
and he had some great ideas,
and he a great bunch of guys
to fill the cards and stuff.
I mean, he had some great talent,
and just, as time went on,
he became more and more involved,
and that's when things started going down the tubes,
was the fact -- when he wanted to be a star.
-Missy, you only worked one event.
Did you get the sense the guy was a partier
right out of the gate? -Oh, yeah.
I mean, I can tell.
I mean, he was like, mmm.
You know, you can tell
when somebody's... a little high on coke.
[ Laughs ] So, yeah.
I mean, and he was running all around, too,
like a chicken with its head cut off.
-Now, Herb had some interesting ideas
on how to get people talking about the UWF.
Here's one stunt he pulled in an L.A. sports bar.
Marty's 350 pounds,
whitish-blond hair and a tux, and he looks great,
and everybody's clamoring 'cause they think this is real.
This is a sports bar in Beverly Hills.
-So, they go in, and everything's quiet.
I mean, you know, the TVs are on,
and people are watching the game,
And, you know, everybody's just having fun.
And I let it go for about 30 minutes,
and I hit the door wide.
"Herb Abrams!"
And he turned around.
I said, "I want everybody here to know I'm The Colonel,
And I'm here to take over the UWF."
Well, when I did that, all hell broke loose.
He throws a table. He's throwing chairs.
People are getting up.
The ones that's close to the door is running out
because they thought we was gonna kill each other.
-And, all of a sudden, Herb starts fighting back,
and Marty is getting beaten
within an inch of his life.
-He come -- He dove top of me.
He started ripping my clothes,
and he started laying on me with them cowboy boots,
and I'm telling you, my ribs hurt for three weeks.
-And I'm thinking, "Man, this looks really great.
Looks like he's pulverizing Marty."
And Marty's laughing hysterically.
He says, "That son of a bitch
doesn't know how to throw a punch.
He almost killed me in there."
This happened.
When we did the shows,
Herb and Marty were the show.
-when we come back, we have more
with the First Lady of professional wrestling,
Missy Hyatt
and "Dangerous" Dan Spivey,
and another cut scene.
That's when "Dark Side of the Ring: After Dark" continues.
♪♪
-Welcome back to "Dark Side of the Ring: After Dark."
I'm Chris Gethard, joined by WCW and WWF legend
"Dangerous" Dan Spivey,
and ECW and WCW legend Missy Hyatt.
Now we're being joined by B. Brian Blair.
He's one of The Killer Bees.
He's also the president and CEO
of the Cauliflower Alley Club, which is a non-profit
devoted to helping out former wrestlers in need.
B. Brian Blair, welcome to the show.
-Chris, it's great to be here, and I tell you,
what a gripping show with Herb Abrams.
I mean, unbelievable.
What a great job you guys do.
You were also at the original press conference
when the league kicked off.
I hear you and Dan actually had an angle.
You had a dustup at that press conference.
-Yeah, he threw my head into the table.
The table went all over.
I mean, it was quite a spectacle.
I mean...
Man, you never want to mess around.
I watched him rip Adrian Adonis' head off one time --
made me realize what a tough guy Danny is.
-Dan, I got to say, just an aside,
you've always seemed like one of the wrestlers where I'm like,
"That's one that" --
I would never mess with any of you guys,
but you'd be at the top of that list.
-Aw, it's just a bunch of vicious rumors.
[ Laughter ] -No, it's not.
-Let's talk about the Blackjack Brawl.
Missy, you said this was the event
that you worked with him. -Oh, my gosh.
-I've also read that you were on record saying
it was one of the worst things, I believe, you have indicated.
-Oh, my gosh. It was so bad.
He got on the mike during my match
and started screaming at me like he was a fan.
Like, "Missy Hyatt, you're no good.
Get out of here," and I don't even remember
all what he was saying, but yeah, he got on the mike,
and it was it was pretty awful.
It was pretty awful, especially in a 7,000-seat arena,
and there was only like 600 people there.
I think 200-and-something paid
and 600 people, but you know...
-And talk to me about that day, because, again,
from the perspective of being a wrestler,
the guy, so clearly in the doc,
he could hype everybody into thinking,
"This is the one where it's going to break out."
When you show up, and there's only a couple hundred people,
does it feel like it's not even worth the time
or are you still going,
"Let's put in the good fight, make it happen."
-Oh, well, we knew it was being on --
It was, like, on -- not pay-per-view,
but on my one of, like, the sports channels,
so yeah, we went out there and gave it our all,
you know, even though there wasn't that many people there,
but I remember showing up to the MGM Grand,
and there was so much publicity about it,
and he was, the night before, on Jay Leno
with "Dr. Death" Steve Williams promoting the show.
So, we're all thinking, this is gonna be awesome.
You know, this is gonna be great,
but it didn't turn out that way.
Dan, how about you?
When you look out, you see that crowd.
What's going through your mind? -What crowd?
[ Laughter ] There was no crowd.
This arena, the MGM Grand,
holds 20,000 people or so.
I don't know. It's somewhere around there.
And there's, what, a thousand people, maybe,
maybe a thousand,
and I heard that Herb stiffed MGM Grand
for a bunch of money.
He never paid them.
[ Laughing ] He took off, checked out and hauled ass.
Never paid them.
-Never paid me.
-[ Laughs ]
-I cannot imagine how that affects the enthusiasm,
even though, what you just said,
was that a rumor, or are we talking facts here?
-That's the rumor I heard.
I don't know that for sure.
But it sounds like Herb.
[ Chuckles ] -That's what I heard.
-The check I got said "MGM Grand" on it,
and it said "Blackjack Brawl,"
the check that he gave me that bounced.
[ Chuckles ] So... -[ Laughs ]
-Well, it is clear that, if anything,
Herb was a character.
We actually have another cut scene that reaffirms that.
It's about one of his phobias.
Spoiler alert --
It's a weird one.
Check it out.
-I mean, I'd literally have to go into a restaurant,
and make sure that there was no lipstick
on any of the silverware
or the glasses that he'd drink from.
It was strange, but it was, like,
a huge issue with him.
Same thing with perfume.
He had the same problem with that.
Well, I mean, you know, some people have
that fear spiders, like that.
Some people like that with cops, you know.
That's what makes them run.
-I don't know. Something must have happened to him.
But lipstick and perfume -- He was, like, deathly afraid it.
It was almost like Superman with kryptonite, you know?
Herb didn't like perfume. Herb didn't like lipstick.
-When he would go hang out at a restaurant or a bar
and he could see
a cigarette in an ashtray with lipstick on it,
he'd start screaming, like, "Get it away from me!
Get it away from me.
So those are the kind of things
that that became more prominent later on
towards the end of his life.
-He hated perfume.
Oh, he hated it -- and lipstick.
He hated lipstick.
If you -- if you -- Oh, Lord.
I remember one night at a show,
Honey showed up with lipstick and perfume.
And she was pretty sharp.
He ran her off.
Would not have nothing to do with her
because of lipstick and perfume.
Told if she went and -- [ Chuckles ]
If she went and washed her nasty rear end
and got that nasty stuff off,
come back and see him.
Now, he didn't say "rear end,"
but nevertheless, he hated lipstick and perfume.
-When we come back, more with Missy Hyatt,
"Dangerous" Dan Spivey, and B. Brian Blair.
That's when we get back on
"Dark Side of the Ring: After Dark."
♪♪
-Hi, I'm Chris Gethard.
Welcome back to
"Dark Side of the Ring: After Dark."
I'm joined by Missy Hyatt, "Dangerous" Dan Spivey,
B. Brian Blair.
We're talking about the UFW and Herb Abrams now.
One thing I read that made me laugh hard
was that he gave a lot of creative freedom
to the wrestlers,
but apparently this led to a lot of double DQs.
Like, nobody -- nobody wanted to lose.
Brian, is this why you need a promoter sometimes?
Like, do you need somebody to go,
"You're doing the job, deal with it"?
Or are the boys just gonna find ways out of it
if they can?
-Well, you really can't do that.
I mean, an intelligent promoter
would never do something like that.
But Herb wanted to appease the guys.
He knew, at times, he was fighting for money,
and he was always doing something
to try to make the guys happy, and you just can't do that.
In any business, I don't care what it is,
you have a flow chart.
And the chief is at the top,
and it flows down from there.
And, you know, we all have to answer somebody.
But, you know, giving the boys a free run --
I mean, I remember getting --
I said some to Cactus one time
because they were all up into the stands and everything.
And, you know, I was --
I wanted Herb to do good so bad.
And it just --
You know, guys were doing things that were crazy.
I mean, that was Cactus anyway.
I mean, that was Mick Foley anyway.
And, you know, he was just crazy.
He was an innovator of hardcore.
Tremendous guy.
I'll never forget when I jumped on his face,
giving them The Sting.
There was a whole accident on both of our parts,
and his teeth were knocked in -- Mick's.
Then he came in and thanked me for the match.
Did say anything about his teeth.
But Herb was --
You know, he was eccentric.
I mean, Missy mentioned the fact
that he he didn't want women to have lipstick or perfume,
and that is so true.
And he'd always want the boys to come in --
when he was with hookers or whatever.
And later on, you know,
at the beginning, I think Dan mentioned, you know,
"I didn't really see him high or anything like that."
Well, I knew Herb was partying a little bit at the beginning,
but it became to be a hardcore addiction,
very extreme.
And he was eccentric in everything he did,
besides no lipstick, besides no perfume.
The hookers or call girls or whatever you had,
they'd come in.
He'd give them checks.
Soon as they'd leave,
he'd call the bank up and cancel the checks.
-Oh, my gosh.
But he was so affable.
I mean, Herb was actually such an affable, likable guy
that, you know, he got people to do things
that you normally wouldn't do,
just by a little thing,
like giving guys a little bit more freedom.
-Dan, did you ever get to the point
where you're thinking about, like,
punching this guy?
When you're holding up the belt, this means you're mad,
and he's messing with the wrong dude.
How far does it get in your mind of like,
"here's how I might have to handle this guy"?
-Well, you know, to touch on about the partying part of it
that Brian was talking about,
I heard that Herb had
these call girls and coke dealers come in,
and they would run his credit cards.
They had at least a credit card gimmick,
'cause they were running his cards right there
in the room.
-Oh, my gosh. -And, that's pretty crazy.
But like I said, I had this belt.
He would pay me,
but I still wouldn't give his belt back to him
because I needed that collateral for later on.
You know, I felt sorry for the guy.
I really did.
I felt sorry for the guy.
He was a mess, man.
I mean, he did a 360 within four or five years.
The guy at the beginning was --
you know, he was nice to be around.
He was -- you know, had a lot of good ideas.
And then at the end, he just didn't make any sense.
He was just not paying the boys.
He was partying,
and he's paying the hookers more
than he was taking care of the boys.
That's bullshit.
So, you know -- but I did.
And I felt sorry for the guy at the end.
It was sad.
-Now, Dan, you've brought up a couple times
Bruno is there.
That's so impressive.
I'm seeing guys like Bob Orton, "Captain" Lou Albano,
guys who've really done a lot of stuff.
Do you ever sit down and talk with them
after a certain point and go,
how did you get involved with this?
'Cause Bruno is like royalty.
How does a guy like Bruno Sammartino
fall in with a guy like Herb Abrams?
-Good question.
You know, I have no idea.
I never talked to Bruno about that.
But that was, you know,
one of the big reasons why I got involved,
because Bruno was there.
I mean, when I worked in the WWF,
Bruno was always there at every TV show we ever did
-Missy Hyatt, you worked with the guy one time.
He left a major impression. -Oh, my gosh.
-One sentence -- let's sum up the experience.
-Um, Well, the only promoter ever to bounce a check on me.
And I was gonna get it back,
but he died before I could get it back
'cause I did track him down.
-[ Laughs ]
-That is a hell of a sentence to say.
When we come back, we've got more.
Stay with us.
♪♪
-Welcome back to
"Dark Side of the Ring: After Dark."
I'm Chris Gethard joined by B. Brian Blair,
"Dangerous" Dan Spivey,
the first lady of wrestling, Missy Hyatt,
We're talking about the UWF. and Herb Abrams.
Now, one thing I've got to ask you guys about.
It was one of the most fascinating
and darkly funny parts of the documentary --
these rumors that Herb Abrams fakes his own death.
Some people swearing,
"Yeah, he showed up at another promotion."
Mick Foley going, "no way."
Did you hear these rumors?
What's your gut instinct
Dan, you're smiling.
What's the instinct on this one?
-I think Herb is dead.
I mean, I never even heard of that --
that rumor that he was still alive until yesterday.
I mean -- but trust me, Herb's dead.
Especially if he owed the MGM Grand money,
he's dead.
[ Laughs ]
-B. Brian Blair, you were right there,
start to finish, helping the guy out.
Any chance there's some truth to this?
-I don't think so.
You know, his beautiful wife, Murry, how she put up with him,
I have no idea.
She's a saint.
But anyway, you know,
he died in the back of a squad car
with his underwear on and an unbuttoned shirt
so coked up,
he was chasing hookers around with a baseball bat.
Someone called the police.
They arrested him.
He wound up having a heart attack
in the back of a squad car,
and that's how he died and when he died.
Now, you know,
there's a lot of rumors that come after that.
So who knows?
-Missy, you just revealed
he died right when you tracked him down to get your check.
I feel like if he faked his death to dodge anyone,
it sounds like it was you.
-Exactly.
I had Big Dick Dudley from ECW
was gonna go get my money for me, so...
And we tracked him down
and found out, you know, where his office was.
And Big Dick was gonna do it.
And then he ends up dying in the back of a cop car
with cocaine all over him.
And, you know, I'm really upset that he never, ever let me --
he showed all the wrestlers, the hookers and the cocaine.
But he never let me see that.
I would have enjoyed seeing that.
That would have been kind of fun.
-So if he had offered up some cocaine as payment,
you would have said, "I'll let you keep half my money"?
-No, no, I'm saying,
he would, like, invite the wrestlers to see him.
You know, like, "come on over to my room."
And then he'd have some hookers and the cocaine.
But he never invited me to see that.
I would have liked --
You know, that would have been kind of cool.
-I got to say, one of the things I love most hosting this show
is hearing that you used the biggest Dudley Boy to go try
to get him to break Herb Abrams to get your money.
What a funny --
like, I don't know if you guys know
that from the outside, for us as wrestlers,
hearing stories like that seem so normal to you.
But to us, it's like, "oh, yeah.
I sent Big Dick Dudley to the get the guy."
That's so wild to a guy like me.
-It's wild to me.
[ Laughter ]
-Are you picking Big Dick 'cause he's a friend of yours?
-Yeah, he was a friend of mine.
He was a friend of mine, and he knew Herb.
I guess he worked with Herb or something.
But he knew where Herb was at, so...
-Did you give him that -- -And he had talked to Herb.
And Herb said, "well, have her give me the check,
and I'll make it good.
I'll pay the cash."
And then poof, he was gone.
-Alright, I want to thank everybody
for being with us tonight.
But before we go, let's take a sneak peek
at the next episode of "Dark Side of the Ring."
This one focuses on
the drug and alcohol-fueled demise
of one of the greatest tag teams of all time,
the Road Warriors.
Take a look.
-I think Joe is more of the guy
that would rather, you know, go out to dinner
and go to the room and get some sleep
so you can get up and have a great workout the next day,
where Hawk, he was wild.
He wanted to go out to the bar.
He wanted to do this.
-He had no shut-off valve to it.
And it was just like
go a hundred miles an hour all the time.
That's when it started hitting a nerve with me.
♪♪
-That's on the next "Dark Side of the Ring."
I have to thank all of you.
This was such a fun, weird conversation.
B. Brian Blair. Missy Hyatt, "Dangerous" Dan Spivey,
thank you so much.
I think we've learned a lot today.
Most of all, let's everybody stay healthy, stay safe,
Try not to wind up
covered in Vaseline and cocaine some day.
We'll see you next time on
"Dark Side of the Ring: After Dark."
♪♪