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-For six years in the '90s,

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Herb Abrams' UWF blazed across
the wrestling landscape,

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parading some
of the biggest names

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in the business along the way.

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But before you could say
"bounced check,"

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it was over.

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I'm Chris Gethard,
and tonight, I'm joined

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by wrestling legends
"Dangerous" Dan Spivey,

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the First Lady of wrestling,
Missy Hyatt, and B. Brian Blair

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00:00:29,897 --> 00:00:33,033
as we discuss the fast rise
and spectacular fall

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00:00:33,033 --> 00:00:35,836
of the man behind the
Universal Wrestling Federation.

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"Mr. Electricity," Herb Abrams.

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This is "Dark Side of the Ring:
After Dark."

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♪♪

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00:00:47,915 --> 00:00:54,488
♪♪

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Welcome, everyone.

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00:00:56,123 --> 00:00:57,624
Last week
on "Dark Side of the Ring,"

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we were introduced,

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or for some of us, reintroduced

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to a man named Herb Abrams.

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Now, in 1990,
he decided he wanted

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to take on Vince McMahon's
wrestling empire

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by starting his own league.

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Don't worry.

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He had a lot of experience

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running a chain of plus-sized
women's clothing stores,

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but somehow he got
a national TV distribution deal,

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and the Universal Wrestling
Federation was born.

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We're gonna talk about
the wild life of Herb Abrams

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and what it was like
wrestling in the UWF.

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We also have a bunch of
never-before-seen-in-the-US

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cut scenes from the documentary,

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But first, let's meet
our outstanding panel.

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This guy used
to scare me as a kid.

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He was one half
of The Skyscrapers

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with "Mean" Mark Callous,
A.K.A. The Undertaker.

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Hello, Dangerous Dan Spivey.

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-Hi, Chris.
Thanks for having me on.

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I'm glad that I scared you
back in the day,

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because that means
I was doing my job.

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-You really did the job
quite well.

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You're also the only holder

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of the UWF America's
championship belt.

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So we have a lot to talk about.

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Our next guest needs
no introduction.

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She's the First Lady
of wrestling.

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She's managed everybody --
Sting, The Steiner Brothers,

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Eddie Gilbert, many more.

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Missy Hyatt,
welcome to the show.

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-Hey, thank you for having me.

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And I'm here
from the Redneck Riviera,

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saying hello.
[ Laughs ]

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-Beautiful. Beautiful.
Now, let's jump in.

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There's so much to talk about.

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This was the story I knew
the least about this season

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before watching the documentary.

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Now, Missy, you've crossed paths
with everyone in wrestling.

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When you think
about Herb Abrams,

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what makes him unique,
in your mind?

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-Oh, my gosh.

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Well, you know,
I had just left that WCW,

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and I didn't know a lot
of different promoters,

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but he called me,
and he tells me to come --

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I was gonna go
to the Blackjack Brawl,

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and he said, "You can't wear
perfume or lipstick around me."

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And I thought that
was a little strange.

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So, I was like, "Okay."

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-We researched him and heard
that was a phobia of his,

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And not to speak ill
of the dead,

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but he was such a character.

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For a guy
who liked call girls so much,

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no perfume is such
a strange phobia to have.

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-Yeah. Very strange.
Very strange.

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-And, Dan, you were one of
his first recruits, I've read.

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You actually at the first-ever
UWF press conference.

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When things are starting off,

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are the boys excited
about this guy's energy?

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Are there red flags immediately?

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-Yeah, I got a call from Brian,
telling me about this guy

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that this guy really
wanted to talk to him,

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And so I gave him a call,
and what a salesman he was.

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He was really enthusiastic.

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He had some really good ideas

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and told me he was gonna
make me his champion,

85
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and, you know, he was just --

86
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he painted a pretty picture.

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He really did at the beginning.

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-Again, in researching it,

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one thing the doc
didn't really get into

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is that he had
a whole bunch of shows,

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where he'd book them,

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the wrestlers show up,
and then they got cancelled.

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Sometimes, he didn't
get the right permits.

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Sometimes, the venue owners
had a problem with him.

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When you guys
travelled to a city

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and the show gets canceled
once you're already there,

97
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that must be one
of the most infuriating things

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a wrestler can deal with.

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-[ Chuckles ] Yes, it was.

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It was it was very
disappointing.

101
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But, you know,

102
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I didn't really worry
about it at first.

103
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I just thought he made
some beginner's mistakes,

104
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but, you know,
I was still kind of leery.

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That's why I held his belt
for ransom,

106
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because if he didn't pay me,

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I wasn't gonna give
his belt back to him.

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He loved that belt,
so I had some collateral.

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I mean, the thing with Herb was,
at the beginning, you know,

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he acted like
a smart businessman,

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and he conducted himself
that way.

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There was no drugs
in the beginning,

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none of the craziness
that led on later on,

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but in the beginning,
he was pretty smart,

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and he had some great ideas,

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and he a great bunch of guys

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to fill the cards and stuff.

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I mean,
he had some great talent,

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and just, as time went on,

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he became more
and more involved,

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and that's when things started
going down the tubes,

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was the fact --
when he wanted to be a star.

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-Missy,
you only worked one event.

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Did you get the sense
the guy was a partier

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right out of the gate?
-Oh, yeah.

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I mean, I can tell.

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I mean, he was like, mmm.

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You know, you can tell

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when somebody's...
a little high on coke.

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[ Laughs ] So, yeah.

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I mean, and he was
running all around, too,

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like a chicken
with its head cut off.

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-Now, Herb had some
interesting ideas

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on how to get people
talking about the UWF.

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Here's one stunt he pulled
in an L.A. sports bar.

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Marty's 350 pounds,

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whitish-blond hair and a tux,
and he looks great,

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and everybody's clamoring
'cause they think this is real.

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This is a sports bar
in Beverly Hills.

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-So, they go in,
and everything's quiet.

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I mean, you know,
the TVs are on,

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and people are
watching the game,

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And, you know,
everybody's just having fun.

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And I let it go
for about 30 minutes,

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and I hit the door wide.

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"Herb Abrams!"

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And he turned around.

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I said, "I want everybody here
to know I'm The Colonel,

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And I'm here
to take over the UWF."

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Well, when I did that,
all hell broke loose.

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He throws a table.
He's throwing chairs.

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People are getting up.

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The ones that's close
to the door is running out

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because they thought
we was gonna kill each other.

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-And, all of a sudden,
Herb starts fighting back,

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and Marty is getting beaten

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within an inch of his life.

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-He come --
He dove top of me.

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He started ripping my clothes,

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and he started laying on me
with them cowboy boots,

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and I'm telling you,
my ribs hurt for three weeks.

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-And I'm thinking,
"Man, this looks really great.

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Looks like
he's pulverizing Marty."

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And Marty's laughing
hysterically.

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He says, "That son of a bitch

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doesn't know how to throw
a punch.

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He almost killed me in there."

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This happened.

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When we did the shows,

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Herb and Marty were the show.

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-when we come back,
we have more

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with the First Lady
of professional wrestling,

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Missy Hyatt

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and "Dangerous" Dan Spivey,

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and another cut scene.

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That's when "Dark Side of
the Ring: After Dark" continues.

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♪♪

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-Welcome back to "Dark Side
of the Ring: After Dark."

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I'm Chris Gethard,
joined by WCW and WWF legend

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"Dangerous" Dan Spivey,

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and ECW and WCW legend
Missy Hyatt.

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Now we're being joined
by B. Brian Blair.

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He's one of The Killer Bees.

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He's also the president and CEO

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of the Cauliflower Alley Club,
which is a non-profit

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devoted to helping out
former wrestlers in need.

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B. Brian Blair,
welcome to the show.

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-Chris, it's great to be here,
and I tell you,

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what a gripping show
with Herb Abrams.

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I mean, unbelievable.

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What a great job you guys do.

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You were also at the
original press conference

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when the league kicked off.

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I hear you and Dan
actually had an angle.

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You had a dustup
at that press conference.

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-Yeah, he threw
my head into the table.

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The table went all over.

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I mean,
it was quite a spectacle.

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I mean...

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Man, you never want
to mess around.

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I watched him rip Adrian Adonis'
head off one time --

202
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,649
made me realize
what a tough guy Danny is.

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00:08:02,649 --> 00:08:04,484
-Dan, I got to say,
just an aside,

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you've always seemed like one
of the wrestlers where I'm like,

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00:08:06,820 --> 00:08:07,987
"That's one that" --

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I would never mess
with any of you guys,

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00:08:09,255 --> 00:08:11,858
but you'd be
at the top of that list.

208
00:08:11,858 --> 00:08:14,761
-Aw, it's just a bunch
of vicious rumors.

209
00:08:14,761 --> 00:08:18,064
[ Laughter ]
-No, it's not.

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00:08:18,064 --> 00:08:19,733
-Let's talk about
the Blackjack Brawl.

211
00:08:19,733 --> 00:08:21,067
Missy, you said
this was the event

212
00:08:21,067 --> 00:08:22,235
that you worked with him.
-Oh, my gosh.

213
00:08:22,235 --> 00:08:24,371
-I've also read that
you were on record saying

214
00:08:24,371 --> 00:08:28,108
it was one of the worst things,
I believe, you have indicated.

215
00:08:28,108 --> 00:08:30,877
-Oh, my gosh.
It was so bad.

216
00:08:30,877 --> 00:08:33,279
He got on the mike
during my match

217
00:08:33,279 --> 00:08:35,648
and started screaming
at me like he was a fan.

218
00:08:35,648 --> 00:08:37,417
Like, "Missy Hyatt,
you're no good.

219
00:08:37,417 --> 00:08:39,652
Get out of here,"
and I don't even remember

220
00:08:39,652 --> 00:08:42,188
all what he was saying,
but yeah, he got on the mike,

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00:08:42,188 --> 00:08:45,458
and it was it was pretty awful.

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00:08:45,458 --> 00:08:48,395
It was pretty awful, especially
in a 7,000-seat arena,

223
00:08:48,395 --> 00:08:50,330
and there was only
like 600 people there.

224
00:08:50,330 --> 00:08:52,499
I think 200-and-something paid

225
00:08:52,499 --> 00:08:56,102
and 600 people, but you know...

226
00:08:56,102 --> 00:08:58,304
-And talk to me about that day,
because, again,

227
00:08:58,304 --> 00:08:59,739
from the perspective
of being a wrestler,

228
00:08:59,739 --> 00:09:01,574
the guy, so clearly in the doc,

229
00:09:01,574 --> 00:09:03,843
he could hype everybody
into thinking,

230
00:09:03,843 --> 00:09:05,512
"This is the one where
it's going to break out."

231
00:09:05,512 --> 00:09:07,447
When you show up, and there's
only a couple hundred people,

232
00:09:07,447 --> 00:09:09,516
does it feel like
it's not even worth the time

233
00:09:09,516 --> 00:09:10,850
or are you still going,

234
00:09:10,850 --> 00:09:13,520
"Let's put in the good fight,
make it happen."

235
00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,356
-Oh, well, we knew
it was being on --

236
00:09:16,356 --> 00:09:18,525
It was, like, on --
not pay-per-view,

237
00:09:18,525 --> 00:09:20,493
but on my one of, like,
the sports channels,

238
00:09:20,493 --> 00:09:23,196
so yeah, we went out there
and gave it our all,

239
00:09:23,196 --> 00:09:25,198
you know, even though there
wasn't that many people there,

240
00:09:25,198 --> 00:09:27,934
but I remember showing up
to the MGM Grand,

241
00:09:27,934 --> 00:09:30,503
and there was so much
publicity about it,

242
00:09:30,503 --> 00:09:32,939
and he was, the night before,
on Jay Leno

243
00:09:32,939 --> 00:09:35,642
with "Dr. Death" Steve Williams
promoting the show.

244
00:09:35,642 --> 00:09:38,077
So, we're all thinking,
this is gonna be awesome.

245
00:09:38,077 --> 00:09:39,512
You know,
this is gonna be great,

246
00:09:39,512 --> 00:09:42,115
but it didn't turn out that way.

247
00:09:42,115 --> 00:09:43,316
Dan, how about you?

248
00:09:43,316 --> 00:09:45,251
When you look out,
you see that crowd.

249
00:09:45,251 --> 00:09:48,254
What's going through your mind?
-What crowd?

250
00:09:48,254 --> 00:09:51,324
[ Laughter ]
There was no crowd.

251
00:09:51,324 --> 00:09:53,393
This arena, the MGM Grand,

252
00:09:53,393 --> 00:09:55,695
holds 20,000 people or so.

253
00:09:55,695 --> 00:09:57,096
I don't know.
It's somewhere around there.

254
00:09:57,096 --> 00:09:59,432
And there's, what,
a thousand people, maybe,

255
00:09:59,432 --> 00:10:00,934
maybe a thousand,

256
00:10:00,934 --> 00:10:04,003
and I heard that Herb
stiffed MGM Grand

257
00:10:04,003 --> 00:10:05,472
for a bunch of money.

258
00:10:05,472 --> 00:10:06,973
He never paid them.

259
00:10:06,973 --> 00:10:10,477
[ Laughing ] He took off,
checked out and hauled ass.

260
00:10:10,477 --> 00:10:11,978
Never paid them.

261
00:10:11,978 --> 00:10:14,147
-Never paid me.

262
00:10:14,147 --> 00:10:15,615
-[ Laughs ]

263
00:10:15,615 --> 00:10:19,619
-I cannot imagine how that
affects the enthusiasm,

264
00:10:19,619 --> 00:10:20,887
even though, what you just said,

265
00:10:20,887 --> 00:10:23,056
was that a rumor,
or are we talking facts here?

266
00:10:23,056 --> 00:10:26,993
-That's the rumor I heard.

267
00:10:26,993 --> 00:10:29,028
I don't know that for sure.

268
00:10:29,028 --> 00:10:30,597
But it sounds like Herb.

269
00:10:30,597 --> 00:10:32,265
[ Chuckles ]
-That's what I heard.

270
00:10:32,265 --> 00:10:35,535
-The check I got said
"MGM Grand" on it,

271
00:10:35,535 --> 00:10:37,437
and it said "Blackjack Brawl,"

272
00:10:37,437 --> 00:10:39,606
the check that he gave me
that bounced.

273
00:10:39,606 --> 00:10:41,541
[ Chuckles ] So...
-[ Laughs ]

274
00:10:41,541 --> 00:10:43,743
-Well, it is clear that,
if anything,

275
00:10:43,743 --> 00:10:45,278
Herb was a character.

276
00:10:45,278 --> 00:10:48,014
We actually have another
cut scene that reaffirms that.

277
00:10:48,014 --> 00:10:49,482
It's about one of his phobias.

278
00:10:49,482 --> 00:10:50,817
Spoiler alert --

279
00:10:50,817 --> 00:10:52,085
It's a weird one.

280
00:10:52,085 --> 00:10:53,453
Check it out.

281
00:10:53,453 --> 00:10:55,455
-I mean, I'd literally have
to go into a restaurant,

282
00:10:55,455 --> 00:10:58,024
and make sure that
there was no lipstick

283
00:10:58,024 --> 00:10:59,959
on any of the silverware

284
00:10:59,959 --> 00:11:03,463
or the glasses that
he'd drink from.

285
00:11:03,463 --> 00:11:05,265
It was strange,
but it was, like,

286
00:11:05,265 --> 00:11:06,432
a huge issue with him.

287
00:11:06,432 --> 00:11:07,934
Same thing with perfume.

288
00:11:07,934 --> 00:11:10,103
He had the same problem
with that.

289
00:11:10,103 --> 00:11:11,571
Well, I mean, you know,
some people have

290
00:11:11,571 --> 00:11:14,240
that fear spiders, like that.

291
00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,576
Some people like that with cops,
you know.

292
00:11:16,576 --> 00:11:18,578
That's what makes them run.

293
00:11:18,578 --> 00:11:20,213
-I don't know. Something
must have happened to him.

294
00:11:20,213 --> 00:11:23,516
But lipstick and perfume --
He was, like, deathly afraid it.

295
00:11:23,516 --> 00:11:26,286
It was almost like Superman
with kryptonite, you know?

296
00:11:26,286 --> 00:11:28,755
Herb didn't like perfume.
Herb didn't like lipstick.

297
00:11:28,755 --> 00:11:30,890
-When he would go hang out
at a restaurant or a bar

298
00:11:30,890 --> 00:11:32,725
and he could see

299
00:11:32,725 --> 00:11:36,396
a cigarette in an ashtray
with lipstick on it,

300
00:11:36,396 --> 00:11:38,965
he'd start screaming,
like, "Get it away from me!

301
00:11:38,965 --> 00:11:39,866
Get it away from me.

302
00:11:39,866 --> 00:11:42,035
So those are the kind of things

303
00:11:42,035 --> 00:11:44,904
that that became
more prominent later on

304
00:11:44,904 --> 00:11:48,341
towards the end of his life.

305
00:11:48,341 --> 00:11:50,543
-He hated perfume.

306
00:11:50,543 --> 00:11:52,045
Oh, he hated it --
and lipstick.

307
00:11:52,045 --> 00:11:53,112
He hated lipstick.

308
00:11:53,112 --> 00:11:54,881
If you -- if you --
Oh, Lord.

309
00:11:54,881 --> 00:11:59,419
I remember one night at a show,

310
00:11:59,419 --> 00:12:03,156
Honey showed up
with lipstick and perfume.

311
00:12:03,156 --> 00:12:06,526
And she was pretty sharp.

312
00:12:06,526 --> 00:12:07,727
He ran her off.

313
00:12:07,727 --> 00:12:10,029
Would not have nothing
to do with her

314
00:12:10,029 --> 00:12:11,664
because of lipstick and perfume.

315
00:12:11,664 --> 00:12:14,033
Told if she went and --
[ Chuckles ]

316
00:12:14,033 --> 00:12:17,203
If she went
and washed her nasty rear end

317
00:12:17,203 --> 00:12:18,938
and got that nasty stuff off,

318
00:12:18,938 --> 00:12:20,406
come back and see him.

319
00:12:20,406 --> 00:12:22,775
Now, he didn't say "rear end,"

320
00:12:22,775 --> 00:12:27,213
but nevertheless,
he hated lipstick and perfume.

321
00:12:27,213 --> 00:12:29,248
-When we come back,
more with Missy Hyatt,

322
00:12:29,248 --> 00:12:32,051
"Dangerous" Dan Spivey,
and B. Brian Blair.

323
00:12:32,051 --> 00:12:33,386
That's when we get back on

324
00:12:33,386 --> 00:12:35,288
"Dark Side of the Ring:
After Dark."

325
00:12:35,288 --> 00:12:41,594
♪♪

326
00:12:43,463 --> 00:12:48,968
♪♪

327
00:12:48,968 --> 00:12:49,902
-Hi, I'm Chris Gethard.

328
00:12:49,902 --> 00:12:50,970
Welcome back to

329
00:12:50,970 --> 00:12:52,505
"Dark Side of the Ring:
After Dark."

330
00:12:52,505 --> 00:12:55,375
I'm joined by Missy Hyatt,
"Dangerous" Dan Spivey,

331
00:12:55,375 --> 00:12:56,676
B. Brian Blair.

332
00:12:56,676 --> 00:12:59,445
We're talking about the UFW
and Herb Abrams now.

333
00:12:59,445 --> 00:13:02,515
One thing I read
that made me laugh hard

334
00:13:02,515 --> 00:13:04,484
was that he gave
a lot of creative freedom

335
00:13:04,484 --> 00:13:05,752
to the wrestlers,

336
00:13:05,752 --> 00:13:08,755
but apparently this led
to a lot of double DQs.

337
00:13:08,755 --> 00:13:12,125
Like, nobody --
nobody wanted to lose.

338
00:13:12,125 --> 00:13:14,727
Brian, is this why you need
a promoter sometimes?

339
00:13:14,727 --> 00:13:16,596
Like, do you need
somebody to go,

340
00:13:16,596 --> 00:13:18,698
"You're doing the job,
deal with it"?

341
00:13:18,698 --> 00:13:20,299
Or are the boys just gonna
find ways out of it

342
00:13:20,299 --> 00:13:21,801
if they can?

343
00:13:21,801 --> 00:13:23,102
-Well, you really
can't do that.

344
00:13:23,102 --> 00:13:24,871
I mean, an intelligent promoter

345
00:13:24,871 --> 00:13:26,372
would never do
something like that.

346
00:13:26,372 --> 00:13:28,441
But Herb wanted
to appease the guys.

347
00:13:28,441 --> 00:13:31,277
He knew, at times,
he was fighting for money,

348
00:13:31,277 --> 00:13:33,646
and he was always
doing something

349
00:13:33,646 --> 00:13:36,015
to try to make the guys happy,
and you just can't do that.

350
00:13:36,015 --> 00:13:38,184
In any business,
I don't care what it is,

351
00:13:38,184 --> 00:13:39,452
you have a flow chart.

352
00:13:39,452 --> 00:13:41,187
And the chief is at the top,

353
00:13:41,187 --> 00:13:43,256
and it flows down from there.

354
00:13:43,256 --> 00:13:46,259
And, you know,
we all have to answer somebody.

355
00:13:46,259 --> 00:13:49,028
But, you know,
giving the boys a free run --

356
00:13:49,028 --> 00:13:51,197
I mean, I remember getting --

357
00:13:51,197 --> 00:13:53,366
I said some to Cactus one time

358
00:13:53,366 --> 00:13:55,735
because they were all up
into the stands and everything.

359
00:13:55,735 --> 00:13:57,070
And, you know, I was --

360
00:13:57,070 --> 00:13:58,905
I wanted Herb to do good so bad.

361
00:13:58,905 --> 00:14:00,540
And it just --

362
00:14:00,540 --> 00:14:02,608
You know, guys were doing things
that were crazy.

363
00:14:02,608 --> 00:14:03,676
I mean, that was Cactus anyway.

364
00:14:03,676 --> 00:14:05,411
I mean, that was Mick Foley
anyway.

365
00:14:05,411 --> 00:14:08,047
And, you know,
he was just crazy.

366
00:14:08,047 --> 00:14:10,083
He was an innovator of hardcore.

367
00:14:10,083 --> 00:14:11,851
Tremendous guy.

368
00:14:11,851 --> 00:14:14,854
I'll never forget
when I jumped on his face,

369
00:14:14,854 --> 00:14:16,122
giving them The Sting.

370
00:14:16,122 --> 00:14:19,826
There was a whole accident
on both of our parts,

371
00:14:19,826 --> 00:14:22,161
and his teeth were knocked in --
Mick's.

372
00:14:22,161 --> 00:14:24,530
Then he came in
and thanked me for the match.

373
00:14:24,530 --> 00:14:26,933
Did say anything about his
teeth.

374
00:14:26,933 --> 00:14:29,202
But Herb was --

375
00:14:29,202 --> 00:14:30,937
You know, he was eccentric.

376
00:14:30,937 --> 00:14:33,005
I mean, Missy mentioned the fact

377
00:14:33,005 --> 00:14:36,809
that he he didn't want women
to have lipstick or perfume,

378
00:14:36,809 --> 00:14:38,311
and that is so true.

379
00:14:38,311 --> 00:14:41,481
And he'd always want the boys
to come in --

380
00:14:41,481 --> 00:14:43,382
when he was with hookers
or whatever.

381
00:14:43,382 --> 00:14:44,817
And later on, you know,

382
00:14:44,817 --> 00:14:46,886
at the beginning,
I think Dan mentioned, you know,

383
00:14:46,886 --> 00:14:49,021
"I didn't really see him high
or anything like that."

384
00:14:49,021 --> 00:14:53,826
Well, I knew Herb was partying
a little bit at the beginning,

385
00:14:53,826 --> 00:14:58,131
but it became to be
a hardcore addiction,

386
00:14:58,131 --> 00:14:59,732
very extreme.

387
00:14:59,732 --> 00:15:02,702
And he was eccentric
in everything he did,

388
00:15:02,702 --> 00:15:07,240
besides no lipstick,
besides no perfume.

389
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,443
The hookers or call girls
or whatever you had,

390
00:15:10,443 --> 00:15:11,511
they'd come in.

391
00:15:11,511 --> 00:15:12,512
He'd give them checks.

392
00:15:12,512 --> 00:15:13,880
Soon as they'd leave,

393
00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:15,982
he'd call the bank up
and cancel the checks.

394
00:15:15,982 --> 00:15:18,518
-Oh, my gosh.

395
00:15:18,518 --> 00:15:20,787
But he was so affable.

396
00:15:20,787 --> 00:15:24,390
I mean, Herb was actually
such an affable, likable guy

397
00:15:24,390 --> 00:15:27,493
that, you know,
he got people to do things

398
00:15:27,493 --> 00:15:29,629
that you normally wouldn't do,

399
00:15:29,629 --> 00:15:30,963
just by a little thing,

400
00:15:30,963 --> 00:15:33,232
like giving guys
a little bit more freedom.

401
00:15:33,232 --> 00:15:34,967
-Dan, did you ever
get to the point

402
00:15:34,967 --> 00:15:36,636
where you're thinking
about, like,

403
00:15:36,636 --> 00:15:37,937
punching this guy?

404
00:15:37,937 --> 00:15:40,206
When you're holding up the belt,
this means you're mad,

405
00:15:40,206 --> 00:15:43,142
and he's messing
with the wrong dude.

406
00:15:43,142 --> 00:15:45,878
How far does it
get in your mind of like,

407
00:15:45,878 --> 00:15:48,481
"here's how I might
have to handle this guy"?

408
00:15:48,481 --> 00:15:52,251
-Well, you know, to touch on
about the partying part of it

409
00:15:52,251 --> 00:15:53,619
that Brian was talking about,

410
00:15:53,619 --> 00:15:54,887
I heard that Herb had

411
00:15:54,887 --> 00:15:57,657
these call girls
and coke dealers come in,

412
00:15:57,657 --> 00:16:00,026
and they would run
his credit cards.

413
00:16:00,026 --> 00:16:01,894
They had at least
a credit card gimmick,

414
00:16:01,894 --> 00:16:04,163
'cause they were running
his cards right there

415
00:16:04,163 --> 00:16:05,431
in the room.

416
00:16:05,431 --> 00:16:07,133
-Oh, my gosh.
-And, that's pretty crazy.

417
00:16:07,133 --> 00:16:08,835
But like I said,
I had this belt.

418
00:16:08,835 --> 00:16:10,069
He would pay me,

419
00:16:10,069 --> 00:16:11,838
but I still wouldn't give
his belt back to him

420
00:16:11,838 --> 00:16:16,309
because I needed
that collateral for later on.

421
00:16:16,309 --> 00:16:18,211
You know,
I felt sorry for the guy.

422
00:16:18,211 --> 00:16:19,178
I really did.

423
00:16:19,178 --> 00:16:20,580
I felt sorry for the guy.

424
00:16:20,580 --> 00:16:22,014
He was a mess, man.

425
00:16:22,014 --> 00:16:27,253
I mean, he did a 360
within four or five years.

426
00:16:27,253 --> 00:16:29,422
The guy at the beginning was --

427
00:16:29,422 --> 00:16:31,224
you know,
he was nice to be around.

428
00:16:31,224 --> 00:16:33,459
He was -- you know,
had a lot of good ideas.

429
00:16:33,459 --> 00:16:35,494
And then at the end,
he just didn't make any sense.

430
00:16:35,494 --> 00:16:37,563
He was just not paying the boys.

431
00:16:37,563 --> 00:16:38,764
He was partying,

432
00:16:38,764 --> 00:16:40,132
and he's paying
the hookers more

433
00:16:40,132 --> 00:16:41,667
than he was taking care
of the boys.

434
00:16:41,667 --> 00:16:42,869
That's bullshit.

435
00:16:42,869 --> 00:16:44,737
So, you know -- but I did.

436
00:16:44,737 --> 00:16:46,606
And I felt sorry for the guy
at the end.

437
00:16:46,606 --> 00:16:47,974
It was sad.

438
00:16:47,974 --> 00:16:49,775
-Now, Dan, you've brought up
a couple times

439
00:16:49,775 --> 00:16:51,244
Bruno is there.

440
00:16:51,244 --> 00:16:52,612
That's so impressive.

441
00:16:52,612 --> 00:16:55,147
I'm seeing guys like Bob Orton,
"Captain" Lou Albano,

442
00:16:55,147 --> 00:16:57,350
guys who've really done
a lot of stuff.

443
00:16:57,350 --> 00:16:58,851
Do you ever sit down
and talk with them

444
00:16:58,851 --> 00:17:00,586
after a certain point
and go,

445
00:17:00,586 --> 00:17:01,754
how did you
get involved with this?

446
00:17:01,754 --> 00:17:04,357
'Cause Bruno is like royalty.

447
00:17:04,357 --> 00:17:05,925
How does a guy
like Bruno Sammartino

448
00:17:05,925 --> 00:17:09,028
fall in with a guy
like Herb Abrams?

449
00:17:09,028 --> 00:17:10,229
-Good question.

450
00:17:10,229 --> 00:17:11,564
You know, I have no idea.

451
00:17:11,564 --> 00:17:13,532
I never talked to Bruno
about that.

452
00:17:13,532 --> 00:17:15,234
But that was, you know,

453
00:17:15,234 --> 00:17:17,236
one of the big reasons
why I got involved,

454
00:17:17,236 --> 00:17:19,038
because Bruno was there.

455
00:17:19,038 --> 00:17:21,407
I mean, when I worked
in the WWF,

456
00:17:21,407 --> 00:17:25,011
Bruno was always there
at every TV show we ever did

457
00:17:25,011 --> 00:17:27,413
-Missy Hyatt, you worked
with the guy one time.

458
00:17:27,413 --> 00:17:29,415
He left a major impression.
-Oh, my gosh.

459
00:17:29,415 --> 00:17:32,985
-One sentence --
let's sum up the experience.

460
00:17:32,985 --> 00:17:38,024
-Um, Well, the only promoter
ever to bounce a check on me.

461
00:17:38,024 --> 00:17:40,226
And I was gonna get it back,

462
00:17:40,226 --> 00:17:42,628
but he died before
I could get it back

463
00:17:42,628 --> 00:17:44,931
'cause I did track him down.

464
00:17:44,931 --> 00:17:46,232
-[ Laughs ]

465
00:17:46,232 --> 00:17:49,302
-That is a hell
of a sentence to say.

466
00:17:49,302 --> 00:17:51,470
When we come back,
we've got more.

467
00:17:51,470 --> 00:17:52,505
Stay with us.

468
00:17:52,505 --> 00:17:58,911
♪♪

469
00:18:00,613 --> 00:18:05,518
♪♪

470
00:18:05,518 --> 00:18:06,585
-Welcome back to

471
00:18:06,585 --> 00:18:07,887
"Dark Side of the Ring:
After Dark."

472
00:18:07,887 --> 00:18:10,022
I'm Chris Gethard
joined by B. Brian Blair,

473
00:18:10,022 --> 00:18:11,357
"Dangerous" Dan Spivey,

474
00:18:11,357 --> 00:18:13,960
the first lady of wrestling,
Missy Hyatt,

475
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,495
We're talking about the UWF.
and Herb Abrams.

476
00:18:16,495 --> 00:18:19,165
Now, one thing I've got
to ask you guys about.

477
00:18:19,165 --> 00:18:21,434
It was one of
the most fascinating

478
00:18:21,434 --> 00:18:24,303
and darkly funny parts
of the documentary --

479
00:18:24,303 --> 00:18:28,040
these rumors that Herb Abrams
fakes his own death.

480
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:29,709
Some people swearing,

481
00:18:29,709 --> 00:18:31,177
"Yeah, he showed up
at another promotion."

482
00:18:31,177 --> 00:18:34,146
Mick Foley going, "no way."

483
00:18:34,146 --> 00:18:35,581
Did you hear these rumors?

484
00:18:35,581 --> 00:18:36,949
What's your gut instinct

485
00:18:36,949 --> 00:18:38,284
Dan, you're smiling.

486
00:18:38,284 --> 00:18:41,287
What's the instinct
on this one?

487
00:18:41,287 --> 00:18:42,888
-I think Herb is dead.

488
00:18:42,888 --> 00:18:44,724
I mean,
I never even heard of that --

489
00:18:44,724 --> 00:18:47,660
that rumor that he was
still alive until yesterday.

490
00:18:47,660 --> 00:18:50,596
I mean -- but trust me,
Herb's dead.

491
00:18:50,596 --> 00:18:52,498
Especially if he owed
the MGM Grand money,

492
00:18:52,498 --> 00:18:53,666
he's dead.

493
00:18:53,666 --> 00:18:55,134
[ Laughs ]

494
00:18:55,134 --> 00:18:57,136
-B. Brian Blair,
you were right there,

495
00:18:57,136 --> 00:18:58,904
start to finish,
helping the guy out.

496
00:18:58,904 --> 00:19:02,241
Any chance
there's some truth to this?

497
00:19:02,241 --> 00:19:04,110
-I don't think so.

498
00:19:04,110 --> 00:19:07,480
You know, his beautiful wife,
Murry, how she put up with him,

499
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:08,647
I have no idea.

500
00:19:08,647 --> 00:19:09,749
She's a saint.

501
00:19:09,749 --> 00:19:11,150
But anyway, you know,

502
00:19:11,150 --> 00:19:14,286
he died in the back
of a squad car

503
00:19:14,286 --> 00:19:18,024
with his underwear on
and an unbuttoned shirt

504
00:19:18,024 --> 00:19:19,692
so coked up,

505
00:19:19,692 --> 00:19:24,263
he was chasing hookers around
with a baseball bat.

506
00:19:24,263 --> 00:19:25,798
Someone called the police.

507
00:19:25,798 --> 00:19:26,932
They arrested him.

508
00:19:26,932 --> 00:19:29,168
He wound up
having a heart attack

509
00:19:29,168 --> 00:19:30,703
in the back of a squad car,

510
00:19:30,703 --> 00:19:33,706
and that's how he died
and when he died.

511
00:19:33,706 --> 00:19:36,108
Now, you know,

512
00:19:36,108 --> 00:19:38,044
there's a lot of rumors
that come after that.

513
00:19:38,044 --> 00:19:41,881
So who knows?

514
00:19:41,881 --> 00:19:43,315
-Missy, you just revealed

515
00:19:43,315 --> 00:19:45,684
he died right when you tracked
him down to get your check.

516
00:19:45,684 --> 00:19:48,187
I feel like if he faked
his death to dodge anyone,

517
00:19:48,187 --> 00:19:50,089
it sounds like it was you.

518
00:19:50,089 --> 00:19:51,257
-Exactly.

519
00:19:51,257 --> 00:19:53,559
I had Big Dick Dudley from ECW

520
00:19:53,559 --> 00:19:56,062
was gonna go get
my money for me, so...

521
00:19:56,062 --> 00:19:57,229
And we tracked him down

522
00:19:57,229 --> 00:19:59,065
and found out, you know,
where his office was.

523
00:19:59,065 --> 00:20:00,266
And Big Dick was gonna do it.

524
00:20:00,266 --> 00:20:03,369
And then he ends up dying
in the back of a cop car

525
00:20:03,369 --> 00:20:05,104
with cocaine all over him.

526
00:20:05,104 --> 00:20:08,207
And, you know, I'm really upset
that he never, ever let me --

527
00:20:08,207 --> 00:20:11,577
he showed all the wrestlers,
the hookers and the cocaine.

528
00:20:11,577 --> 00:20:13,012
But he never let me see that.

529
00:20:13,012 --> 00:20:15,181
I would have enjoyed
seeing that.

530
00:20:15,181 --> 00:20:17,249
That would have
been kind of fun.

531
00:20:17,249 --> 00:20:19,985
-So if he had offered up
some cocaine as payment,

532
00:20:19,985 --> 00:20:21,687
you would have said, "I'll let
you keep half my money"?

533
00:20:21,687 --> 00:20:23,122
-No, no, I'm saying,

534
00:20:23,122 --> 00:20:26,058
he would, like, invite
the wrestlers to see him.

535
00:20:26,058 --> 00:20:27,860
You know, like,
"come on over to my room."

536
00:20:27,860 --> 00:20:29,962
And then he'd have
some hookers and the cocaine.

537
00:20:29,962 --> 00:20:31,397
But he never invited me
to see that.

538
00:20:31,397 --> 00:20:32,598
I would have liked --

539
00:20:32,598 --> 00:20:35,101
You know, that would have been
kind of cool.

540
00:20:35,101 --> 00:20:39,038
-I got to say, one of the things
I love most hosting this show

541
00:20:39,038 --> 00:20:44,176
is hearing that you used
the biggest Dudley Boy to go try

542
00:20:44,176 --> 00:20:47,546
to get him to break Herb Abrams
to get your money.

543
00:20:47,546 --> 00:20:48,981
What a funny --

544
00:20:48,981 --> 00:20:50,716
like, I don't know
if you guys know

545
00:20:50,716 --> 00:20:52,985
that from the outside,
for us as wrestlers,

546
00:20:52,985 --> 00:20:56,188
hearing stories like that
seem so normal to you.

547
00:20:56,188 --> 00:20:57,490
But to us, it's like,
"oh, yeah.

548
00:20:57,490 --> 00:20:59,291
I sent Big Dick Dudley
to the get the guy."

549
00:20:59,291 --> 00:21:03,963
That's so wild to a guy like me.

550
00:21:03,963 --> 00:21:05,431
-It's wild to me.

551
00:21:05,431 --> 00:21:07,233
[ Laughter ]

552
00:21:07,233 --> 00:21:10,970
-Are you picking Big Dick
'cause he's a friend of yours?

553
00:21:10,970 --> 00:21:12,304
-Yeah, he was a friend of mine.

554
00:21:12,304 --> 00:21:14,373
He was a friend of mine,
and he knew Herb.

555
00:21:14,373 --> 00:21:16,075
I guess he worked with Herb
or something.

556
00:21:16,075 --> 00:21:18,477
But he knew
where Herb was at, so...

557
00:21:18,477 --> 00:21:20,646
-Did you give him that --
-And he had talked to Herb.

558
00:21:20,646 --> 00:21:23,449
And Herb said, "well, have her
give me the check,

559
00:21:23,449 --> 00:21:24,583
and I'll make it good.

560
00:21:24,583 --> 00:21:25,651
I'll pay the cash."

561
00:21:25,651 --> 00:21:28,821
And then poof, he was gone.

562
00:21:28,821 --> 00:21:30,156
-Alright,
I want to thank everybody

563
00:21:30,156 --> 00:21:31,390
for being with us tonight.

564
00:21:31,390 --> 00:21:33,392
But before we go,
let's take a sneak peek

565
00:21:33,392 --> 00:21:35,694
at the next episode
of "Dark Side of the Ring."

566
00:21:35,694 --> 00:21:36,829
This one focuses on

567
00:21:36,829 --> 00:21:38,797
the drug and alcohol-fueled
demise

568
00:21:38,797 --> 00:21:41,100
of one of the greatest tag teams
of all time,

569
00:21:41,100 --> 00:21:42,201
the Road Warriors.

570
00:21:42,201 --> 00:21:43,569
Take a look.

571
00:21:43,569 --> 00:21:45,104
-I think Joe is more of the guy

572
00:21:45,104 --> 00:21:48,274
that would rather, you know,
go out to dinner

573
00:21:48,274 --> 00:21:50,109
and go to the room
and get some sleep

574
00:21:50,109 --> 00:21:52,711
so you can get up and have
a great workout the next day,

575
00:21:52,711 --> 00:21:54,580
where Hawk, he was wild.

576
00:21:54,580 --> 00:21:56,048
He wanted to go out to the bar.

577
00:21:56,048 --> 00:21:57,383
He wanted to do this.

578
00:21:57,383 --> 00:21:59,051
-He had no shut-off valve to it.

579
00:21:59,051 --> 00:22:00,286
And it was just like

580
00:22:00,286 --> 00:22:04,056
go a hundred miles an hour
all the time.

581
00:22:04,056 --> 00:22:05,925
That's when it started
hitting a nerve with me.

582
00:22:05,925 --> 00:22:07,359
♪♪

583
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,061
-That's on the next
"Dark Side of the Ring."

584
00:22:09,061 --> 00:22:10,863
I have to thank all of you.

585
00:22:10,863 --> 00:22:15,201
This was such a fun,
weird conversation.

586
00:22:15,201 --> 00:22:18,671
B. Brian Blair. Missy Hyatt,
"Dangerous" Dan Spivey,

587
00:22:18,671 --> 00:22:19,805
thank you so much.

588
00:22:19,805 --> 00:22:21,907
I think we've learned
a lot today.

589
00:22:21,907 --> 00:22:24,910
Most of all, let's everybody
stay healthy, stay safe,

590
00:22:24,910 --> 00:22:26,078
Try not to wind up

591
00:22:26,078 --> 00:22:28,113
covered in Vaseline
and cocaine some day.

592
00:22:28,113 --> 00:22:29,515
We'll see you next time on

593
00:22:29,515 --> 00:22:31,584
"Dark Side of the Ring:
After Dark."

594
00:22:31,584 --> 00:22:38,123
♪♪