1
00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:08,920
[woman] This is a nice set-up
you've got here.
2
00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,720
[electronic crackle]
3
00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,280
[over speaker] There was a time
I thought about joining the police force.
4
00:00:21,080 --> 00:00:22,360
Can you imagine? [chuckles]
5
00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,560
Not like, uniform or…
you know, on the beat,
6
00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,160
whatever you call it, but… a detective.
7
00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:31,960
Like on TV. Like Columbo!
8
00:00:32,480 --> 00:00:33,680
[Hobbs] So what happened?
9
00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,200
-"Just one more thing!"
-[Hobbs] Danielle?
10
00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:38,560
-[Danielle] What?
-[Hobbs] Why didn't you?
11
00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:39,800
Oh, God.
12
00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:42,240
Why does anyone do anything?
13
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And this was years ago.
14
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This is like, when I was in school.
15
00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,000
Then boys happened, kids came along…
16
00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,360
My crime fighting days were over
before they'd even begun.
17
00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,160
You'll be relieved to hear.
I won't be taking your job just yet.
18
00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:58,960
Well, that's not quite true, is it?
19
00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:00,880
How do you mean?
20
00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,320
You seem to have been doing
some detective work of your own.
21
00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:05,920
Oh, you're talking about the website?
22
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:07,760
Pesticide, it's called.
23
00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:09,320
-Yeah.
-Yeah. Pesticide.
24
00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,160
The only time we ever got any credit
was for the business with, um…
25
00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,600
You know, what's his name?
Lewis. The first one.
26
00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:17,200
The teacher.
27
00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:21,520
Yeah, yeah. Teacher.
Do you know about that one?
28
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Why don't you tell us? For the tape.
29
00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:27,760
[Danielle] Okay.
30
00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,640
Uh, Lewis. Uh, Crispin Lewis.
31
00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,320
He was a teacher
at my daughter Fiona's school.
32
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P.E. teacher, I think he was.
33
00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:40,000
And then, completely out of the blue
we get a letter saying he'd been fired.
34
00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,440
Turns out it was for having
kiddie porn on his work computer.
35
00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:51,200
Not that he ever touched Fiona,
you know, ever, but you know…
36
00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:53,560
He could have.
37
00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:55,480
So look, the point is,
38
00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,600
a couple of months later I saw him.
39
00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:01,560
In the menswear department in John Lewis.
40
00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,680
The first thing that comes into my head
is nothing to do with…
41
00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,200
the abuse, or anything like that.
It was just, "Oh, that's funny.
42
00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:09,920
Crispin Lewis, in John Lewis!"
43
00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,000
[chuckles] Stupid, really.
44
00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:14,320
But then I think…
45
00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:16,800
"He's landed on his feet."
46
00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:18,560
If he's shopping in John Lewis.
47
00:02:18,640 --> 00:02:21,800
To be fired as a teacher
for that kind of thing…
48
00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,920
So, I go home.
49
00:02:25,640 --> 00:02:26,920
I google him.
50
00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:28,920
Turns out he's got another job
51
00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,400
at another school, a private school.
52
00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,120
Just a couple of miles away,
and I think to myself…
53
00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:38,600
"That's not right."
54
00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:40,640
So I get my old scrapbook.
55
00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,640
It's got all the press clippings
and cuttings from the first time round.
56
00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:48,800
I copy them. It's like, 10p a page
but it's worth every penny.
57
00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,640
And I send them to the headmaster
of the new school.
58
00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,960
With a covering letter that just says
"To whom it may concern…
59
00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,760
and you should all
be concerned, frankly…
60
00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:01,680
you may want to be aware of the following.
61
00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,080
Please see enclosed…" Etcetera.
62
00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,680
A couple of days later
I get a call from the school,
63
00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:09,120
thanking me for my letter.
64
00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,400
And the head of Year Nine, Mrs. Bradley,
65
00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,760
she tells me in confidence
that he's been fired for a second time.
66
00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:21,360
And that it was all down to me.
67
00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,560
And to think I nearly went
to House of Fraser! [chuckles]
68
00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:33,720
[eerie music playing]
69
00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,560
[camera clicking]
70
00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:56,360
-[elevator dings, door opens]
-[clicking]
71
00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,200
[beep]
72
00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:20,000
[Hobbs] So that, in your mind,
was a positive start?
73
00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,320
Yeah, I found myself thinking afterwards,
74
00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,280
"If that man can find that job
that easily,
75
00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,360
then, you know, who else is out there?
76
00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:30,840
What can I do to stop them?"
77
00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,000
Well, the traditional way
is to go to the police.
78
00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:35,400
No.
79
00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,320
No, not with these sorts of people.
80
00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,200
No, because you need evidence.
81
00:04:40,280 --> 00:04:43,240
You know, you can't just go
accusing people of this kind of thing.
82
00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:44,960
You need facts and you need evidence
83
00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,200
and the only reason
I had facts and evidence
84
00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:49,920
about Mr. Lewis in John Lewis
85
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:51,560
is because it had been in the papers.
86
00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:53,360
But in answer to your question, yeah.
87
00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:55,440
That is when it started.
88
00:04:56,280 --> 00:04:57,280
Pesticide?
89
00:04:57,840 --> 00:04:59,240
Pesticide. Yeah.
90
00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,760
-Yeah.
-Which is a play on words.
91
00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:03,680
"Pest" as in someone who pesters you,
92
00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,680
and "cide" as in death,
93
00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:08,480
as in, homicide.
94
00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:12,720
Well, "cide" as in death,
but "pest" as in vermin.
95
00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,080
-And you're the founder?
-Yeah. Well, yeah…
96
00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:20,280
More like the lead singer of the band.
97
00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:22,080
[Petit] You accept that you're involved?
98
00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:23,560
Yeah.
99
00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:27,000
And you're of the opinion
that everything Pesticide does is legal?
100
00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,880
Well, I'm more than
"of the opinion," Kyle.
101
00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,040
I mean, I know. I check.
102
00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,840
We check. We make sure. That's why
I'm happy to have my name on the website.
103
00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,960
Are you familiar
with the term "vigilante"?
104
00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:44,640
[chuckles] Mm-hmm.
105
00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:46,760
Would it be fair to call it that?
106
00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:49,600
Well, you, Kyle,
must call it what you want.
107
00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,760
But if you do find yourself
calling it that,
108
00:05:52,840 --> 00:05:56,680
maybe ask yourself why vigilantes
came to exist in the first place?
109
00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,720
Because the people
whose job it is to protect them…
110
00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:03,640
[mouthing]
111
00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:05,160
…have let them down.
112
00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:07,280
Do you ever ask yourselves that?
113
00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:09,320
[Hobbs] Okay.
114
00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,720
Just to be 100 percent clear
on this, Danielle,
115
00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:15,760
you do know why you've been arrested?
116
00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:17,200
[Danielle] Yeah, you told me.
117
00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,240
[Hobbs] For making
an improper communication online.
118
00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,960
-Yeah, you said.
-You're not worried by that?
119
00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,680
I would be worried
if I'd done anything wrong
120
00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:27,440
but I haven't, so I'm not.
121
00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:28,760
End of story.
122
00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:33,520
-[Hobbs] And you don't want a solicitor?
-[Danielle] They lived happily ever after.
123
00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:35,760
-Danielle?
-No, thank you.
124
00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:37,160
You are entitled to one.
125
00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,440
Yeah, noted, but no.
126
00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:41,880
Shall I get you one anyway,
in case you change your mind?
127
00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:43,240
Have you done it already?
128
00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:44,920
I might have done.
129
00:06:46,280 --> 00:06:49,240
Well, then they will be waiting some time.
130
00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:53,960
Okay.
131
00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:57,920
So let's get to the reason you're here.
132
00:06:58,280 --> 00:06:59,480
Andrew Simmons.
133
00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:01,120
Oh, Andrew.
134
00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:03,400
That's good.
135
00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:05,920
You're familiar with the name?
136
00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,200
Yeah, very.
137
00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:09,520
Although that is not
what he calls himself online.
138
00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:10,440
No?
139
00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,400
No. God, no.
They all have pseudonyms.
140
00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,720
So explain how you came
to meet Andrew Simmons.
141
00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:18,960
I've never met him.
142
00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,760
-Online?
-Online. Yeah.
143
00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,360
Yeah, Just talk us through
how that worked.
144
00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:26,920
Well, it's the same as it is
with all of them.
145
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,120
You know, I set up a fake profile,
146
00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,680
fake name, fake pictures.
147
00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,360
I do that in a forum or a chat room.
148
00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,280
And you're posing as a 14-year-old?
149
00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:38,840
Exactly.
150
00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,160
Then I say that I'm looking
to make new friends,
151
00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,360
looking for a bit of fun,
that kind of thing.
152
00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:46,280
And I just wait.
153
00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:50,040
Wait?
154
00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:52,800
For…?
155
00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:55,640
For perverts.
156
00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:58,400
Perverts like Andrew Simmons.
157
00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,480
Because they have to be the ones
to make first contact, to initiate.
158
00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,120
I mean, that's how we get
our legal protection.
159
00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:06,680
They have to start it.
160
00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,120
And when they do,
in the nicest possible way, Kyle,
161
00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:12,280
God fucking help them.
162
00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:18,200
You'll have to bleep that out.
163
00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,440
And so little by little,
164
00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,400
when we start chatting,
so they begin to give themselves away.
165
00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,160
God love them,
they can't help themselves.
166
00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:31,200
When you say, "give themselves away…"
167
00:08:32,680 --> 00:08:34,600
Did you not receive the Pest Pack?
168
00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,440
The envelope I sent.
If this is about Andrew Simmons, then…
169
00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:40,320
Right. Yeah, that's it.
170
00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:41,280
Good.
171
00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,800
I do them like that
so they go to the top of the pile.
172
00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,920
Actually, for future reference, do them
like that, they go straight to Security.
173
00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,200
This one took three days to be opened.
174
00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,320
Putting "Pesticide" on the back
didn't help.
175
00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,920
This is what you sent us on Simmons.
176
00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,320
It's mainly a transcript
of an online conversation
177
00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,760
that took place
in the second half of December.
178
00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,080
That chat is between someone called
179
00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:16,120
"Porsche64," who you identify
as actually being Andrew Simmons,
180
00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,200
a 52-year-old media accountant
from Putney.
181
00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:21,520
And "Pixie Girl",
182
00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,440
a pretty, blonde 14-year-old girl
from Belsize Park…
183
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,080
who is actually you.
184
00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,280
-And it gets quite graphic.
-Only on his side.
185
00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:40,200
Right, but it gets
quite sexually explicit quite quickly.
186
00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:42,000
Yeah.
187
00:09:44,560 --> 00:09:47,600
[sighs] Some of them take a while
to get going, you see?
188
00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:50,280
"What would you like to do
when we first meet in the flesh?
189
00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:51,640
How about we go to the cinema?"
190
00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:53,880
"Maybe we could hold hands."
191
00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,120
Like blood from a stone.
192
00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:57,440
Not this guy.
193
00:09:59,560 --> 00:10:01,320
This is from an office party.
194
00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:04,200
No, is that him?
195
00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:06,440
[chuckles softly]
196
00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:08,520
Looks so friendly, doesn't he?
197
00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,600
Nice, smiley, beardy face…
198
00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,200
[Hobbs] Okay, the pair of you
exchanged over 400 messages.
199
00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,200
We can't read them all,
but just to give us an idea,
200
00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,960
on 16th December,
201
00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:23,560
you say how flattered you are
by his messages,
202
00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:27,520
but "I can't chat more tonight
because I need to do my homework."
203
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,240
Yeah, in reality I'm at a carol concert
204
00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:31,960
with Peter, my seven-year-old.
205
00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:34,320
Simmons replies undeterred,
206
00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,240
asking more about your school,
207
00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:37,440
about what goes on there.
208
00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,400
-About my uniform.
-About your uniform.
209
00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:41,120
I'm thinking, "Here we go."
210
00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,800
The next morning you're on him again,
asking what he got up to last night.
211
00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:47,200
He texts, "Not much.
212
00:10:47,560 --> 00:10:51,720
After my wife goes to sleep I'm all alone.
Crying face, crying face."
213
00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:54,800
-He's a big fan of the emoji.
-As are you.
214
00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,280
I do it to come across
like a 14-year-old.
215
00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,200
He does it to come across
like someone a 14-year-old would like.
216
00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,640
Well, therein lies
the modern mating ritual, Natalie,
217
00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:05,840
but did you notice what he did there?
218
00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:07,280
Spot it?
219
00:11:07,680 --> 00:11:09,080
We now know he's married.
220
00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,680
He's given that away.
That's our first clue.
221
00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,080
And it might not seem like much,
but those clues soon begin to add up.
222
00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:17,840
And you start to hone in
on who the pervert is for real.
223
00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:19,360
Oh, it's very clever.
224
00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:21,720
Now, there's no need for that.
225
00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:23,800
And you don't think
you're leading him on at all?
226
00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:25,720
-How can I be?
-Sorry?
227
00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:26,720
I'm 14.
228
00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:27,960
-Are you?
-Yeah.
229
00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:29,560
As far as he's concerned, I am.
230
00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:30,760
But not in reality.
231
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,440
In the same way that playing Mario
on my brother's Gameboy
232
00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:34,560
never made me a plumber.
233
00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:36,840
No, this is different.
Mario's a computer game.
234
00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:38,000
-This is a game.
-No.
235
00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,280
-Also played on a computer.
-No, this is real.
236
00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,080
If Mario ends badly
you can go back to the start.
237
00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,800
If this ends badly…
well, kids don't get to do that, do they?
238
00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:49,120
That is why we do it.
239
00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:54,000
Did he?
240
00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:56,320
Did he what, babe?
241
00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:58,160
Send you a picture?
242
00:11:59,040 --> 00:11:59,880
Okay.
243
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:04,920
On the 24th, he asks
244
00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:06,680
if you fancy any of your teachers.
245
00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,160
Yes, you say,
you fancy one of them badly.
246
00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:10,960
You remind him you're only 14.
247
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:12,320
Yeah, see, that's important.
248
00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,320
"But boys my own age do nothing for me."
249
00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,520
Come on, you're giving him
an open goal here.
250
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,720
Yeah, but he still has to be the one
to kick it in the back of the net.
251
00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,480
"Ever thought about getting with someone
more experienced," he asks.
252
00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:25,280
You ask what he means.
253
00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:29,360
And then there are several pages of him
telling you exactly what he means,
254
00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,120
and exactly how much he means it.
255
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:36,000
With more photos to help illustrate,
and with more encouragement from you.
256
00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,560
And all this, while you're getting things
ready for Christmas, presumably.
257
00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:41,760
Sorry?
258
00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:43,200
These are from Christmas Eve,
259
00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,640
so you're fitting all this entrapment
in around, what?
260
00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:47,320
Peeling Brussels sprouts?
261
00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:50,720
You're clearly a very busy
14-year-old woman.
262
00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,040
Thirty messages
between 11:00 p.m. and midnight alone.
263
00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,320
You ask him about
the other girls he's spoken to.
264
00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,560
"If you're so experienced," you say…
265
00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:01,440
You want him to tell you about them.
266
00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,000
"…I need someone
who knows what they're doing."
267
00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,360
And on this point
he is particularly communicative.
268
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:08,680
He gives you numbers,
269
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:09,920
lots,
270
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:11,360
gives their ages.
271
00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,400
He offers up pictures. You say
seeing pictures would turn you on.
272
00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,440
This is how we do it.
We build the case. We build the clues.
273
00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,080
You ask where he works.
274
00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,280
The accountants, Paddington.
275
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:23,360
What music he likes.
276
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:24,600
Rock music.
277
00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:25,640
And what he drives.
278
00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,080
An old BMW convertible.
279
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:29,920
Although if you look on Google Earth
280
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,480
you'll see he actually drives
a Kia Sportage.
281
00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:34,840
"Maybe you could pop round to see him."
282
00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:36,640
This is one late night suggestion.
283
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,640
"You could be
his special Christmas present,
284
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,440
but only if he asks nicely and tells you
exactly what number he lives at."
285
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,400
You look at me like that,
but this is how we do it.
286
00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:51,360
This is how we find them,
we go after the clues.
287
00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,520
-Like Cluedo.
-[Hobbs] But not like Cluedo, Danielle.
288
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,360
because that's a game
and this is real, remember?
289
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,200
But he doesn't give
his address over straight away.
290
00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:04,520
Not that night.
291
00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,160
It wasn't until sometime after
that he gave it up.
292
00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:10,400
Yeah. Got it in the end though, didn't I?
293
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:12,320
It's like I said, these men…
294
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,200
can't help themselves.
295
00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,720
-Got that other photo lined up?
-[Warren] Yeah, it's coming.
296
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,320
No, may as well do it now, though, yes?
297
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:23,800
[Warren] Alright, Tone.
298
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:31,840
[Myerscough groans]
299
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:34,000
I didn't.
300
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:35,240
You were thinking it.
301
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,600
[Hobbs] Is there a small part of you
that enjoys this?
302
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,360
There's a small part of me
that's satisfied by it.
303
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:46,360
Yeah.
304
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,720
-By the process?
-No, by the outcome.
305
00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,600
He's been arrested?
There is an outcome.
306
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:57,160
We can't tell you that.
307
00:14:58,720 --> 00:14:59,840
I'll take that as a yes.
308
00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:01,520
Do you ever send pictures back?
309
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,440
What, do I look like a 14-year-old
blonde girl from Belsize Park?
310
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:06,520
No.
311
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:08,960
But you might have pictures that do.
312
00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,200
Yeah, I might, but I don't,
313
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:13,840
and even if I did, I wouldn't send them.
314
00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:16,040
Wouldn't cross that line.
315
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:18,360
So there's a line?
316
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,840
[Hobbs] So the two of you are pen pals
over the festive period.
317
00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,720
Then just before midnight
on New Year's Eve,
318
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,120
while he's watching fireworks
with his family,
319
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,840
Andrew Simmons receives
a message from a different account,
320
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,560
this time openly affiliated to Pesticide,
321
00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,240
explaining this has all been a trap.
322
00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:39,800
That Pixie Girl isn't real,
323
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,160
but the messages and pictures of himself
that you've been busily sending
324
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:44,760
definitely are.
325
00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,040
You explain that packages
containing everything you've received
326
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,400
are to be sent out
first thing in the morning.
327
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:52,160
One to the police,
328
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:54,720
one to his work,
329
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,120
Blue State Finance,
in Paddington, as you say,
330
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,280
and one to his wife's parents,
wherever they are.
331
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,120
Newcastle-under-Lyme.
332
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,800
And that's what you did,
signing off with a final message:
333
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,000
"Here's a New Year's resolution
for you, Andy.
334
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,200
Why not spend the next 12 months
being less of a twisted fuck?"
335
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:13,920
[chuckles] Sorry!
336
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,120
Sorry, I forgot I put that.
337
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:18,920
You've destroyed this man's life.
338
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:21,000
-No.
-Yeah.
339
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,240
-You do realize that?
-No.
340
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,880
No, credit where credit's due,
he did that all by himself.
341
00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,200
[eerie music playing]
342
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,440
[Myerscough] My old man's at war
with the council over residents' parking.
343
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:47,320
This is up near Preston.
344
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,520
And… he's sent thousands of emails.
345
00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:51,920
Right.
346
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,560
He's even found out
where the head councilor lives.
347
00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:56,880
He's been round
to deliver letters personally
348
00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,040
because he says he never gets a response.
349
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:00,160
[both chuckle]
350
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:02,920
[sighs]
351
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,000
Whole thing's giving him heart problems,
according to my brother.
352
00:17:09,360 --> 00:17:11,080
Are your parents still together?
353
00:17:11,360 --> 00:17:12,240
Yep.
354
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,320
Right. So what does your mum
make of it all?
355
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:16,680
[chuckles lightly]
356
00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:21,120
Well, she says, "For a man that went
to the Falklands and survived Goose Green,
357
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,240
your dad's sure picked
an odd bloody hill to die on."
358
00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:25,920
[chuckles]
359
00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,320
-You're not comparing that with this?
-No.
360
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,000
I'm saying, people go on crusades.
361
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,800
All right. Well, I wouldn't
lump your dad in with her yet,
362
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:38,480
especially given what's to come.
363
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,600
Henry Regis. Solicitor.
They told me to come straight up.
364
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,240
-Natalie.
-Hi. Take a seat. Thanks.
365
00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:48,720
[Hobbs clears throat]
366
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:55,120
She's yours for an hour.
367
00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:58,400
I'd…
368
00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,240
Yeah, I'd keep it smiley,
at least to begin with.
369
00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:05,720
Okay.
370
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,880
[Myerscough] Interview resumes at 18:10.
371
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,440
New into the room in place of DCI Hobbs,
DI Tony Myerscough.
372
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,720
-[Danielle] What happened to Natalie?
-Oh, she's still here.
373
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,160
She asked me to come in for this bit.
374
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:27,000
I'm the member of the team who's been
looking most closely at the fallout.
375
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:28,080
Ah.
376
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:36,880
Okey-cokey.
377
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,200
So, this group of yours, Pesticide.
378
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,440
How many of you are there, again?
379
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:45,080
What do you mean, "again"?
380
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:46,680
How many of you are there?
381
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:48,600
Well,
382
00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,480
if you read the newspapers
every day, Tony, like I do,
383
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:53,720
you'll know the answer: not enough.
384
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:56,120
Excellent. [chuckles]
385
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,040
But if you were to put
an actual figure on it?
386
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:02,080
[chuckles softly]
387
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:05,000
Don't say I said anything, Kyle,
388
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:06,840
but this guy's hilarious.
389
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,240
That's the reason why you're here,
in case you hadn't realized.
390
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,760
We need the names
and contact details of all those involved.
391
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,320
Groups like yours
do a great deal of harm.
392
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:27,120
Well, at least they do something, which is
more than can be said for you lot.
393
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:28,880
I'm just saying,
394
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:30,440
even though they mean well,
395
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,280
they can provoke violence
and retribution in others,
396
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:36,080
they can get in the way
of real police inquiries.
397
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,040
There are many effects
to their actions. Okay?
398
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:41,320
Okay.
399
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,240
So how many are we talking? Ten, 20?
400
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:46,280
More?
401
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,040
It doesn't matter how many.
402
00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:50,000
Well, then if it doesn't matter, say.
403
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:56,520
No problem.
404
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:00,920
We'll come back to that later.
405
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,360
After we've gone through the consequences
of these packages,
406
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,320
which means… I don't know
if my colleague Vanessa can hear me,
407
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,880
but we won't be needing
the photo of the girl just yet.
408
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:13,600
[Danielle] What photograph?
409
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,760
[Myerscough] I gave her a bit
of a hard time about it not being ready.
410
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:17,840
I feel bad now.
411
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,280
[Danielle] What photograph?
I didn't send any photograph.
412
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:22,800
Must be like firing missiles, these.
413
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,000
You know they have the potential
to do untold damage
414
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,880
and you just hope they hit their target.
415
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,200
Well, good news, for your team, anyway.
416
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,080
They had the desired effect.
417
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:38,360
The package that you sent
418
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,240
to Blue State Finance
was opened by Samira.
419
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,400
That's the chairman's PA.
420
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,200
Simmons was called up from a little office
he shares with a colleague.
421
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,640
Tried his best to deny it, of course.
422
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:51,640
Was fired on the spot.
423
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,280
Just like that.
Twenty-one years in the company,
424
00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:57,680
and out that morning
with nothing but a cardboard box.
425
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:04,040
The second package arrived
at Scotland Yard, as we know,
426
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:06,880
and as we know,
took over three days to be opened.
427
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:09,160
The final package
428
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,200
arrived at Andrew Simmons's
mother-in-law's house
429
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:13,800
in Newcastle-under-Lyme,
430
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:15,840
while she was having her breakfast.
431
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:18,600
And?
432
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,920
Well, it was enough
to put her off her egg and soldiers.
433
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,760
-Put it that way.
-[scoffs]
434
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,800
That being said, what she did manage to do
amidst a blizzard of indecency,
435
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,160
was to call Siobhan, her daughter,
436
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,640
Simmons's wife, to tell her all about it,
437
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,600
and that in turn caused Siobhan
438
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,320
to drop to her knees on the kitchen floor
439
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,360
and have what is known
as a cued panic attack.
440
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:44,520
Cued by you.
441
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:46,240
Cued by him.
442
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,440
Well, let's come back to that later.
443
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,320
But that was their 27-year marriage
as good as over.
444
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:52,640
[chuckles]
445
00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:54,360
I mean…
446
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,120
you say that like it's a bad thing.
447
00:21:58,240 --> 00:21:59,560
Are you married, Tony?
448
00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:05,760
Let's call that a no.
Well, just imagine you are for a second.
449
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:07,520
You'd want to know.
450
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:09,520
You'd want to know
451
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,480
if your partner was involved
in something like this, wouldn't ya?
452
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,240
And there is no easy way to find out.
453
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:25,400
You ask her.
454
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:29,160
Danielle,
455
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,520
at any point during your exchange
with Andrew Simmons,
456
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,040
did the name Chloe come up at all?
457
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:35,960
No.
458
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,840
-[Petit] That name doesn't ring a bell?
-Mmm.
459
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,280
Chloe is someone Andrew Simmons
has been in contact with a lot.
460
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,320
She's 15. Goes to school
a quarter of a mile from where he lives.
461
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,760
She's quite an academic girl,
doing GCSEs a year early,
462
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,600
already thinking about universities,
what degree to do…
463
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:54,800
Something maths-related.
464
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:01,600
Bastard.
465
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,320
[Petit] There are other subjects in
the mix but maths is the clear favorite.
466
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:09,200
Complete and utter bastard.
467
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,680
This was taken in A & E, on sixth January,
468
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,720
-by Chloe's mum.
-What? Wait a second, what?
469
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,080
She's been back at home, weeks now.
Not back at school, though. Not yet.
470
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,200
What, sixth January? That's three days
after I sent out the Pest Pack.
471
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,080
-The what pack?
-This!
472
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,600
This arrived on the third,
you told me that.
473
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:29,920
But it took you people
three days to open it.
474
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:31,320
That's three days between
475
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,840
being warned about this pervert
and this happening.
476
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,720
Don't even try to deny it.
It's on your cameras and it's on these.
477
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,440
[microphone feedback]
478
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:41,920
And now, look.
479
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,640
-How many people are there in Pesticide?
-What more do you people need?
480
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,840
-The names of all those involved.
-You get everything handed to you,
481
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:54,680
on a plate. And still you let him do this.
482
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:56,080
Let who do this?
483
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:57,680
Simmons.
484
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,040
Danielle, Andrew Simmons didn't do this.
485
00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:00,960
You did.
486
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,000
You remember the egg and soldiers.
487
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,080
The 80-year-old mother-in-law
who calls Siobhan.
488
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,640
Siobhan drops to her knees
and has her panic attack.
489
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:13,360
Well,
490
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,240
an ambulance had to be called.
491
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:18,200
And who does that, Danielle?
492
00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:21,320
Who helps Siobhan to her feet
493
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:23,280
and calls for an ambulance?
494
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:25,200
Hmm?
495
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:26,600
Her 15-year-old daughter.
496
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:29,880
Chloe.
497
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,400
Chloe, who knows nothing about the fact
498
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,760
that her dad's been accused of being
a pedophile until three days later,
499
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:41,200
when she's approached by a gang of girls
from school, keen to have a chat.
500
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,600
Word's got out, you see.
501
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,000
Daddy's a twisted man.
502
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,000
And so this is what she gets.
503
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,240
Now, I say a gang of girls from school.
504
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,400
But what's the word that I'm looking for?
505
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:58,200
Hmm?
506
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:01,280
Came up earlier.
507
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:03,800
Vigilantes.
508
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,480
[tense music playing]
509
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:08,800
[chuckles nervously]
510
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:14,760
Natalie, can you hear me in there?
511
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,080
[tense music continues]
512
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,480
Client wants you in the interview.
513
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:38,240
We haven't even met.
514
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,240
[keypad beeping]
515
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:46,640
[buzzer]
516
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,080
[Myerscough clears throat]
517
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,920
You've arrested her for making
an improper communication online.
518
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,280
Which I have not.
519
00:26:04,360 --> 00:26:06,000
So, how do you know that, sorry?
520
00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:07,560
Because… [scoffs]
521
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,400
…impersonating a juvenile online
isn't illegal.
522
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,720
I can impersonate anyone I want.
523
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,920
Mahatma Gandhi.
Fuckin' King of Norway… anyone.
524
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,760
But if some pervert approaches me,
525
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,280
if he initiates contact,
526
00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:26,240
then I'm within my rights to find out
how much of a menace he really is.
527
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,200
If anything I should be applauded for it.
528
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,120
[Henry] But, with respect…
529
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,000
that's not why you've been arrested.
530
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,760
Making an improper communication online
does not relate to you.
531
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,960
It relates to someone you affect.
It's like slander.
532
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,240
So if you say someone is a pedophile
and that is untrue,
533
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,760
then if they suffer
as a result of your false allegation…
534
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,440
that's a criminal offense.
535
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,600
Have you accused someone
of being a pedophile?
536
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:56,680
Yeah.
537
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:58,400
And are they?
538
00:26:58,920 --> 00:26:59,800
Yes.
539
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,480
Well, then it falls to the detectives
here to prove otherwise.
540
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,320
And if they can't,
then I'm sure they'll soon let you go.
541
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,600
He knows, the solicitor.
542
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,840
He doesn't know what,
but he knows there's more coming.
543
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,280
[Myerscough clears throat]
544
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,920
Do you remember, Danielle,
when Natalie was in here? DCI Hobbs.
545
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,680
She said it took Simmons some time
to give you his full address.
546
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:36,960
Seventy-four, East River Walkway, Putney,
547
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:38,800
London, SW15.
548
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:40,120
Why do you think that was?
549
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:41,680
Oh, I don't know, Kyle!
550
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,120
Maybe because online predators
don't like giving themselves away.
551
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,080
But if that was the case,
he never would have told you at all.
552
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,040
He'd already told you he was married,
and that he drove an old BMW convertible.
553
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,680
Which is bullshit. Check Google Earth.
554
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,280
Maybe he was starting to think…
555
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:57,960
that you were onto him.
556
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,160
That's why he took so long
to give you his full address.
557
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:05,760
Do you remember
DI Myerscough telling you how,
558
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:07,840
when Simmons was called in
to see the chairman,
559
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,440
he came upstairs from an office
he shared with a colleague?
560
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,840
Do you know what car
that colleague drives?
561
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,480
An old BMW convertible.
562
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,680
A 1988 BMW 3 Series, navy blue,
with light cream leather interior.
563
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,200
I say that's the car he drives.
He has several. Cars are his thing.
564
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:33,960
Do you know what his dream car is?
565
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:35,440
I don't know.
566
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,600
-Chitty Chitty Bang Bang?
-Think, Danielle.
567
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:41,880
He'll never be able to afford it.
568
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:44,720
It's one of the first ones they ever made.
569
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,600
A Porsche 64.
570
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,440
It wasn't Andrew Simmons
you were talking to, Danielle.
571
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,000
It was his colleague, Casper.
572
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:00,840
Casper Lindström,
573
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,680
using Simmons's computer
in their shared office.
574
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:10,800
There's Casper.
575
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:13,480
Casper's desk.
576
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,600
And… the calendar.
577
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,400
When you were on his case,
going after the clues, like in Cluedo,
578
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,360
he'd have been sweating, wouldn't he?
579
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,480
Because you hear stories, don't you?
580
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:31,240
About pedophile hunters…
581
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,600
people wanting retribution,
some of them…
582
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,600
a little unhinged.
583
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:39,880
And he'd have been thinking…
584
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:42,160
"What if they find me?
585
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,800
What if they track me down
to this little office?
586
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,360
My time could be up, here.
587
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,080
Better to take it out on someone else."
588
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,440
That's why we looked at Casper.
589
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,120
That's why Casper's waiting
downstairs in a cell, and not Simmons.
590
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,760
Now, I really need to insist
we take a break.
591
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,080
Come on, Tony.
592
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:21,120
[scoffs]
593
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:22,960
I'm not telling you.
594
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:26,360
You do know that?
595
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,800
I'm never giving you…
I'm never giving you any names.
596
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,560
[tense music playing]
597
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,520
Maybe I want to help you, Tony, but…
598
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:43,520
I can't.
599
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,320
[Danielle] Something
to think about, isn't it?
600
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,080
[tense music continues]
601
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,200
Interview suspended at…
602
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,720
-18:35.
-[beep]
603
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:05,840
Jeez…
604
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,520
[tense music continues]
605
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,560
What's the longest she could go down for?
Fifteen, 20 weeks maybe?
606
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:25,840
And a ban from social media.
607
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:27,680
Well, there you go, then.
608
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,120
I think she'll take the hit
to protect the team.
609
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,080
But that's my take, anyway.
610
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:36,920
Other theories are available.
611
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,160
All I keep thinking is…
612
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,440
Maybe we put this back on her,
this entrapment thing.
613
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:49,120
How do you mean?
614
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,280
Let's do to her what she did to Simmons.
615
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:55,400
[Myerscough] In what way?
616
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:01,280
[buzzer]
617
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,560
[Hobbs] Okay, so far this year
Pesticide has tweeted… what, Vanessa?
618
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:09,680
Six thousand times.
619
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,480
And according to their Facebook
620
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,120
they've been involved in the arrest
of over 30 pedophiles since 2017.
621
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,600
And then there's the text messages,
the emails, the forums.
622
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:22,920
And there's the kids to look after.
623
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:23,840
Yeah.
624
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,680
-You think it's all too much?
-[Hobbs] For one person?
625
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,320
So, here's what I'm thinking.
626
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,400
We ask her to say how she thinks
Simmons is feeling right now.
627
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,920
We invite her to show regret
over her mistake
628
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,680
and lead her down a path
to the point where she asks us
629
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:41,960
if he's okay.
630
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,040
Now when she asks us that,
we make a point of saying nothing.
631
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,320
We let the worry set in.
632
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,960
Have her convince herself that
he hasn't got over the loss of his job
633
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,760
or the attack on his daughter,
and that maybe…
634
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,520
And look, she's got to be the one
to initiate this…
635
00:32:58,280 --> 00:32:59,480
Maybe…
636
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,200
he's taken the easy way out.
637
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:04,880
Yeah?
638
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,240
No. We can't do that.
639
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:09,160
[Hobbs] Well…
640
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:11,800
it's that, or,
641
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,200
she goes down for a couple of months
and the whole thing goes on without her.
642
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,800
If that's all it is, that's all it is.
We'll have to leave it at that.
643
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,000
She needs to understand what can happen
644
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,040
if you carry on like this.
645
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:25,320
What can happen,
646
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,760
but hasn't actually happened.
647
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:29,960
[phone vibrating]
648
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,080
Sorry. Excuse me.
649
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,040
Hiya. Yep, go on. What have you got?
650
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,560
Six men, Vanessa,
just to put this out there…
651
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,480
Six men outed online
for being pedophiles in the last year
652
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:42,880
have taken their own lives.
653
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,680
-Two…
-Because of Danielle?
654
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:46,080
[Petit] Two… just let me finish…
655
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:47,640
were completely innocent.
656
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,160
-Because of Danielle?
-People like Danielle.
657
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,720
So not because of Danielle,
that's the point.
658
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:55,560
Listen,
659
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:57,040
I'm sorry, but…
660
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,680
we can't take issue with her
and the tactics that she uses
661
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:01,600
if we're doing the same thing ourselves.
662
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:04,720
Makes us as bad as she is.
663
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,840
Then she really could be sitting
on our side of the table.
664
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,960
-[door opens]
-[Myerscough speaking indistinctly]
665
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,480
Yes. That's great. Thank you.
666
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:19,400
Guv!
667
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,360
Yes. Thank you very much.
668
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,080
I've just got off the phone
with Social Services…
669
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,880
[ominous music playing]
670
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,880
[inaudible dialogue continues]
671
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,680
-[door opens]
-[ominous music continues]
672
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,840
[whirring]
673
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:07,760
[beep]
674
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,160
[Hobbs] Interview resumes at 19:22.
675
00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:13,680
Detectives Myerscough and Petit
have left the room.
676
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,320
DCI Hobbs has returned.
677
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:22,560
For me, Danielle,
678
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,040
just because I don't want anyone else
ending up like Chloe…
679
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:28,480
Would you write down the names
680
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,520
of all those you know
to be involved in Pesticide?
681
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,440
I think we might have had
this question already, Detective.
682
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,440
Yeah, I know. Change the record, eh?
683
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,800
Are you not even going
to ask me the question, Natalie?
684
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,920
You're not even going to ask me
685
00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:07,280
why we do this?
686
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,360
Because I am a mother, first and foremost.
687
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:15,280
Because I don't want my kids growing up
in a world full of monsters.
688
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,160
I want them looked after, properly,
689
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,480
by people who know what they're doing.
690
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,600
Responsible people.
People who know what's best for them.
691
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,160
People who won't let them down.
692
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,120
Yeah, I… I know what you mean.
693
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,120
And yes, you are a mum, Danielle,
694
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:40,640
but, um…
695
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,920
Your kids, uh, Peter and Fiona,
how old are they again?
696
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,880
Seven and nine.
697
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,640
But they're not seven and nine, are they?
698
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,800
They were seven and nine five years ago.
699
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,920
When they were taken away
by Social Services.
700
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,000
That's the information
I've just been given.
701
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,680
And that's what started all this, right?
702
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:34,000
This goes much wider, though, Natalie.
703
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,520
-This is… this is a global problem.
-No.
704
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:39,560
-It's a network.
-Danielle…
705
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,800
And if you just let me
talk to your colleagues
706
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,440
who are investigating that side of things,
then I can help you make inroads…
707
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,920
Nobody wants that.
Nobody's playing. Not any more. No.
708
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:53,160
[eerie music playing]
709
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:02,600
[clears throat]
710
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,880
[Myerscough]
Pesticide tweeted 19,000 times
711
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:50,840
in the last two years.
712
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,520
Since Danielle came in this morning…
713
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:00,600
Nothing.
714
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:02,760
Danielle Dunne,
715
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,760
you will be charged with making
an improper communication online.
716
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,320
You will be taken downstairs
where you will be read the charge in full.
717
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:12,640
Do you understand?
718
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:15,040
I do. Yeah.
719
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,320
Just one more thing, though, Natalie.
720
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:24,960
Just before we get into all that…
721
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,760
Can I just tell you about the man
who lives in the flat upstairs from me?
722
00:39:31,240 --> 00:39:36,560
I mean, he is what I would like to call
"a complicated individual."
723
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,480
I mean, not to be trusted around kids,
in my humble opinion.
724
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,600
Can you give me 60 seconds
just to talk about him?
725
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,680
[eerie music playing]