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We've always loved horror.
2
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It's just that horror,
unfortunately,
3
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hasn't always loved us.
4
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- Zombie! [indistinct]!
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- What have we got here?
6
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-
7
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Terror and voodoo
and all the weird black magic
8
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that the white man seldom see.
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-
I'm gettin' outta here now!
10
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You can be the boss
down there.
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I'm boss up here.
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- Yes! That's history.
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-
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- "The name is Blacula!"
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-
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- Is there any more
scary imagery than this?
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- I wanna hear you scream.
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- It's cool to see yourself
on the screen.
19
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- There's something so powerful
about scaring someone.
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-
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- Oh, my goodness.
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Allow me
at least a kiss.
23
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- I've been
waiting for you, boy.
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- Phew!
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-
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- Oh, my God.
27
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- Yes, get rid of that, son.
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-
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- Isn't that beautiful?
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It's crazy.
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You got me all here in this
creepy, confusing ass subarba.
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You all so serious, though?
33
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I feel like
a sore thumb out here.
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Lakeith.
Oh, yeah.
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Walking down the...
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Walking down
the sidewalk at night.
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- In a suburban neighborhood.
- In a suburban neighborhood.
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- On the cellphone by himself.
39
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- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
40
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- Shit!
- All of that.
41
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- I've been there.
- Yeah, yeah.
42
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- It was the perfect
black horror story.
43
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- Yeah, really.
44
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-
45
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- I've never felt so ill at ease
46
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because, for me, there was
so much riding on this film
47
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in that is he going to
get this right,
48
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not just in quality,
49
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but for the way that
we understand black people.
50
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- If there's
too many white people,
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I get nervous, you know?
52
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When I found out
they were gonna let me
53
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actually direct "Get Out",
54
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I knew something big
was going to happen.
55
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I thought there was a chance
something very bad could happen,
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that I would get run
out of town, that, you know,
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I thought there's a possibility
that people, you know,
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don't want to see entertainment
about something that...
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you know, has been
traditionally dealt with
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with a certain reverence.
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But I also thought, you know,
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this is the movie
I wanted to see.
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- To have a black protagonist,
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first of all,
just in a horror trailer,
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had my attention.
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"Huh? Wait, he might
survive this."
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He might not be
the magical Negro
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or the sacrificial Negro
or the first to die
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and all those tropes,
so it's like,
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"This is a story through
a black lens by a black artist
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and it's horror."
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I thought I was in heaven.
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Jordan Peele, "Get Out".
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This had never happened before
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to have an Oscar-nominated
black horror movie.
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- And I think it really shows
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how horror films
can really talk about things
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that are affecting us.
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- Black history is black horror.
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- Before we think about horror
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as we know it today,
we can go back to the films
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that perhaps wouldn't be
on our radar as horror.
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-
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- There's a character, Gus.
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Gus is a white actor
in blackface
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who was depicted
as being in pursuit of
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a young white girl.
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Gus is essentially
lynched by the Klan.
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"The Birth
of a Nation" was a horror film,
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especially if you were
a black person.
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Most people,
at that point,
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were getting to know what
African Americans were like
93
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through that film because
they lived in communities
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where they had no
African Americans.
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This was the only source
of information
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and a lot of people
got the wrong impression
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of who we are, certainly.
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- It's one of the first films
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to be screened
in the White House,
100
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in Woodrow Wilson's
White House.
101
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Didn't help that
Woodrow Wilson said,
102
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"That's exactly the way it is."
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- Oh, you know, I mean...
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You know, he was
a contributor to the problem.
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- With the endorsement
of the president,
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it feels like policy.
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There were even
advertisements and promotions
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that said this was essentially
based on a true story
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and it was as close to fact
as one could get.
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- The Ku Klux Klan
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is being heralded as the
solution to the black menace.
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- This is a movie
that really solidifies
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that there's this sort of
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odd black lust
on the part of black men
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towards white women.
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You see it
time and time again then
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throughout the horror genre,
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from "King Kong"...
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...to "Candyman".
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- It reigned as
thepicture of black life
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for so many years.
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Hollywood could use
its messaging
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to create fear
around black people,
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especially
fear around black men.
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- It sets up
black life and culture
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as so deficient
and so deviant
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and I think we see
that kind of history
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in forming race relationships
even today.
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- Dr. Clinton?
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Filmmakers in this period
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really want black actors to be
what they think blackness is.
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- Don't bite on this time,
Ms. Yoga.
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These are the kinds of films
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that are coming out
in the '20s and '30s,
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leading up to Oscar Micheaux
and Spencer Williams
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sort of saying, "Enough."
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Oscar Michaeux,
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who was one of the first
African American directors,
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who would,
like a lot of people
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doing today
in the independent world,
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he would have his own film crew,
he would gather his actors,
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he would write a script
around the actors.
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- What Oscar Michaeux's films do
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is say, "Don't engage
in these behaviors,
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don't engage in these acts,"
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which ultimately could
sort of bring down the race
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or sully the reputation
of the race.
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Oscar Michauex's
making arguments
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that we are equal
and to be respected
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and to be valued
as human beings.
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Spencer Williams' film
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from 1940, "The Son of Ingagi",
is as interesting case.
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Its genesis
was a little bit odd
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because there was a film
called "Ingagi".
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"Ingagi" was an earlier
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low budget effort
by a white director.
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- Which basically purported
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that black Africans were mating
with gorilla-like creatures.
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- "Ingagi" promises
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that it is a true story
and that this mating
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has produced half-ape,
half-human babies.
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The whole thing is a scam.
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- Even whites were like,
"But that's not true, you know."
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The "Son of Ingagi"
is basically considered
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the first
black-made horror film.
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The makeup isn't great,
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and they didn't have
much of a budget.
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-
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- But Spencer got it made.
- Got it made, exactly.
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- And I look at that
to this day as a testament.
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- It stars a black woman
as a scientist.
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She has a scientific lab
in her basement
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and there is this ape-man
that resides there
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that she has been taming
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and sort of helping
this ape-man to thrive.
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- If it does
what I think it will,
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I've done more for humanity
than anyone else on Earth.
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- So, Spencer Williams actually
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kind of does the first black
women in stem kind of film.
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You really get to see
the black middle class
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on full display.
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-
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You're seeing
a bunch of black folks
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coming back from a wedding.
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It doesn't sound revolutionary,
but in that era, in 1940,
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when did you ever see black
people just being themselves?
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It was a way to show
that not all black people
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were the way they had been
depicted in films
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up to that time.
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So we have a doctor
and a lawyer,
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everyone is well-spoken,
and in that way,
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it was a slice of black life
that, to me,
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is one of the most important
aspects of that film.
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- And if you know
anything about television,
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Spencer Williams
sounds familiar, right?
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He starred in the television
situation comedy "Amos 'N Andy".
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00:09:22,870 --> 00:09:26,260
- Oh, Andy, I love jokes!
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- Then you gonna
like this one
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because I bought this gun
at a joke store.
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- So, what's sad about that
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is that people will always
know Williams
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as from "Amos 'N Andy",
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but what Spencer Williams
contributes
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to the history of film
is absolutely unmatched.
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He sets up what we really
probably think of is
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00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,160
modern black cinema today.
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By this time,
Hollywood realized
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that horror was big business,
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00:10:00,910 --> 00:10:02,560
especially during
the Great Depression.
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00:10:02,610 --> 00:10:05,170
I think people were looking for
that kind of escapism in films
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00:10:05,220 --> 00:10:07,870
and film going was like huge.
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00:10:07,910 --> 00:10:10,530
That's where you get those
Universal Studio classics like
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00:10:10,570 --> 00:10:14,010
"Murders in the Rue Morgue",
"The Mummy", "Dracula",
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00:10:14,050 --> 00:10:16,140
"Frankenstein",
"The Bride of Frankenstein".
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00:10:16,180 --> 00:10:19,670
I love all of those films
but clearly in the 1930s,
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00:10:19,710 --> 00:10:23,320
they weren't really big
on racial representation.
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00:10:23,370 --> 00:10:25,150
Back in the '30s and '40s
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00:10:25,190 --> 00:10:27,330
in those days, you know,
219
00:10:27,370 --> 00:10:29,020
there were only a few roles
for black people.
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00:10:29,070 --> 00:10:30,680
Yeah.
- It was like a quiet servant
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00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:34,420
who's just basically furniture,
tribesmen like in Africa
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00:10:34,460 --> 00:10:37,070
or voodoo priestesses,
that sort of thing.
223
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,510
- Hmm... At the theatre.
- It was like...
224
00:10:39,560 --> 00:10:42,340
- It was like
the comedic buffoon
225
00:10:42,380 --> 00:10:44,820
who was like scared
of his own shadow.
226
00:10:44,860 --> 00:10:46,740
227
00:10:48,740 --> 00:10:50,130
- Mantan Mulan.
- Yes.
228
00:10:50,170 --> 00:10:52,520
- Was the last actor
to play that kind of character
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00:10:52,570 --> 00:10:54,220
and that was
in spite of the baby,
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00:10:54,270 --> 00:10:57,310
and after that, I would just say
they were ready to move on.
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We are moving into this period
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00:11:01,450 --> 00:11:04,280
of kind of the scientific
or atomic age.
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00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,100
There's not a lot of room
for servants,
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00:11:07,150 --> 00:11:09,060
so in laboratories,
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00:11:09,110 --> 00:11:12,150
there's no really place
for blacks in that space.
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In the '50s and '60s,
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00:11:13,630 --> 00:11:16,460
no studio wanted to put
a black scientist in there.
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00:11:16,510 --> 00:11:21,120
That was a place where they felt
black people weren't allowed in,
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00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,080
so like in hidden figures
how hard it was for black people
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00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,340
to get into the space race
and that sort of things,
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00:11:26,380 --> 00:11:28,470
so it has another reason I think
that black people
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00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,220
would pretty much disappear
during the whole, you know,
243
00:11:31,260 --> 00:11:32,480
the decade or two.
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00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:34,390
- In all of those
classic alien movies...
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00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:36,570
like"The Day the Earth Stood Still"
246
00:11:36,610 --> 00:11:39,140
and all that stuff,
there are no black people
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00:11:39,180 --> 00:11:42,230
but the "other"
is this monster thing
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00:11:42,270 --> 00:11:44,710
that I think is supposed to
represent all people
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that are not white.
250
00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:49,580
"Creature from the Black Lagoon"
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00:11:49,630 --> 00:11:52,630
looks so much like
those advertisements
252
00:11:52,670 --> 00:11:56,200
from the '20s and the '30s
and the '40s.
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00:11:56,240 --> 00:12:00,770
The bulging lips looks
just like those awful ads
254
00:12:00,810 --> 00:12:03,070
for Nigger Head Shrimp.
255
00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:04,070
- It's like
first we weren't in it,
256
00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:05,030
we were played
by white people...
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00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:06,340
- Yeah.
- Then we were in it
258
00:12:06,380 --> 00:12:08,170
but we looked like aliens.
259
00:12:08,210 --> 00:12:10,250
-
260
00:12:10,300 --> 00:12:12,430
So here I am, this 10-year-old,
261
00:12:12,470 --> 00:12:14,650
in a drive-in theater
with my mom,
262
00:12:14,690 --> 00:12:16,830
but even then, I knew
that there was something
263
00:12:16,870 --> 00:12:21,870
that horror was saying to me
about blackness, about race.
264
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,620
I knew that King Kong
was a metaphor for blackness.
265
00:12:25,660 --> 00:12:27,620
-
266
00:12:27,660 --> 00:12:29,190
- Even as a kid,
there was something
267
00:12:29,230 --> 00:12:31,060
uncomfortable about it.
268
00:12:31,100 --> 00:12:33,190
- Monsters and aliens
269
00:12:33,230 --> 00:12:36,190
are stand-ins
for black folks
270
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,980
but we're not actually
present in the story.
271
00:12:39,020 --> 00:12:40,330
- But then
there's this moment...
272
00:12:40,370 --> 00:12:44,160
"Night of the Living Dead".
273
00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,600
- It's 1968,
and that's important.
274
00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,430
-
275
00:12:57,690 --> 00:12:59,390
I don't scare easily.
276
00:12:59,430 --> 00:13:03,050
"Night of the Living Dead"
I think gave me nightmares.
277
00:13:03,090 --> 00:13:05,480
- It was a frightening,
frightening film,
278
00:13:05,530 --> 00:13:08,090
and the black and white of it...
279
00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,840
...play such a huge part
in what makes it scary.
280
00:13:19,630 --> 00:13:22,410
All law enforcement
agencies and the military
281
00:13:22,460 --> 00:13:24,850
have been organized
to search out and destroy
282
00:13:24,890 --> 00:13:26,370
the marauding ghouls.
283
00:13:28,900 --> 00:13:31,030
There's a zombie apocalypse
284
00:13:31,070 --> 00:13:33,860
and we have
a small group of folks
285
00:13:33,900 --> 00:13:39,600
who all sort of converge
on a cabin house to survive.
286
00:13:39,650 --> 00:13:42,220
- It has a black protagonist
in Duane Jones.
287
00:13:42,260 --> 00:13:43,830
- You can be
the boss down there.
288
00:13:43,870 --> 00:13:44,870
I'm boss up here.
289
00:13:44,910 --> 00:13:46,310
- He's in charge.
290
00:13:46,350 --> 00:13:48,400
- If you stay up here,
you take orders from me!
291
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,360
- You can never quite tell
if the white woman
292
00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,050
who Duane Jones
is essentially saving
293
00:13:54,100 --> 00:13:56,800
is more creeped out by the fact
that there's zombies outside
294
00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,360
or the fact that there's
a black man in the house.
295
00:13:59,410 --> 00:14:01,710
- I was probably
way too young to see it
296
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,020
but I was absolutely
fascinated by the fact
297
00:14:05,060 --> 00:14:07,890
that there is this a beautiful,
handsome black man.
298
00:14:07,940 --> 00:14:11,590
That was the first time
I probably saw somebody black
299
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,340
in a movie,
and they weren't a criminal,
300
00:14:14,380 --> 00:14:16,820
and they weren't gangster,
and they were the hero.
301
00:14:16,860 --> 00:14:22,040
- At that time,
there was not a black character
302
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:26,300
who was really a man,
303
00:14:26,350 --> 00:14:29,920
who was, again,
who took charge of his fate.
304
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,570
Who wasn't waiting
for the white man to save him.
305
00:14:32,610 --> 00:14:35,570
Duane Jones'
performance stood out for me.
306
00:14:35,620 --> 00:14:37,580
By that point, I knew
I wanted to be an actor
307
00:14:37,620 --> 00:14:40,360
and I said, "Okay,
I was gonna be fearless."
308
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,750
- He's slapping white people up
inside the head.
309
00:14:43,970 --> 00:14:46,410
He's killing white zombie
after white zombie
310
00:14:46,450 --> 00:14:47,800
after white zombie.
311
00:14:47,850 --> 00:14:49,850
This had to be horrifying
to racists.
312
00:14:54,940 --> 00:14:58,120
- The '60s was
a turbulent time, you know.
313
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,300
We had assassination
after assassination.
314
00:15:02,510 --> 00:15:05,300
We had riot after riot.
315
00:15:05,340 --> 00:15:07,950
- Civil rights movement
and all those movements
316
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:12,520
were combining together
and we were producing those men
317
00:15:12,570 --> 00:15:15,350
that were standing up
and saying, "Not here.
318
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,010
Not again. Not me."
319
00:15:18,050 --> 00:15:22,140
At the same time, he comes up
and he does this film
320
00:15:22,190 --> 00:15:24,230
and that's the character,
that's the man,
321
00:15:24,270 --> 00:15:25,580
that's the man I saw.
322
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:28,930
"Night of the Living Dead"
was so important
323
00:15:28,970 --> 00:15:32,590
because for the first time,
we're not just the victims.
324
00:15:32,630 --> 00:15:34,550
We were the destroyers
and the protectors
325
00:15:34,590 --> 00:15:35,940
for other people
against monsters,
326
00:15:35,980 --> 00:15:37,510
That's a good point.
327
00:15:37,550 --> 00:15:40,460
Years later,
I got to know George Romero.
328
00:15:40,510 --> 00:15:42,950
I asked him,
I said, "Why Duane?"
329
00:15:42,990 --> 00:15:44,950
and he said, "The role
wasn't even written,
330
00:15:44,990 --> 00:15:46,340
it wasn't written black.
331
00:15:46,380 --> 00:15:48,170
Duane just happened to be
the best actor
332
00:15:48,210 --> 00:15:49,730
to show up on that day."
333
00:15:49,780 --> 00:15:51,910
This is like in the '60s
334
00:15:51,950 --> 00:15:55,440
when people being hosed,
people in sit-ins
335
00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,050
and stuff like that.
- Jim Crow era.
336
00:15:57,090 --> 00:15:58,180
- Exactly.
- Yeah.
337
00:15:58,220 --> 00:15:59,440
- It just blew my mind that
338
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,180
this was a black guy
who was doing all this,
339
00:16:02,230 --> 00:16:03,840
taking charge,
he was the hero,
340
00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:05,710
even though it didn't
turn out for him in the end.
341
00:16:05,750 --> 00:16:06,930
- Alright then,
hit him in the head,
342
00:16:06,970 --> 00:16:08,060
right between the eyes.
343
00:16:09,930 --> 00:16:11,710
I can remember seeing this
344
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,370
and not being able to move.
345
00:16:15,410 --> 00:16:17,370
- Okay, he's dead.
Let's go get him.
346
00:16:17,410 --> 00:16:19,020
That's another one for the fire.
347
00:16:19,070 --> 00:16:21,680
He's killed by the white mob
348
00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,250
which had to look a lot
like white mobs
349
00:16:24,290 --> 00:16:26,420
that were roaming
throughout the South,
350
00:16:26,470 --> 00:16:29,600
menacing black folks
and terrorizing black folks.
351
00:16:30,860 --> 00:16:32,210
You see lynchings.
352
00:16:32,260 --> 00:16:36,910
You think of Emmett Till
and it's just too much.
353
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,610
And so you are left
just sitting there going,
354
00:16:41,660 --> 00:16:44,700
"My God.
Did this just happen?"
355
00:16:51,190 --> 00:16:54,710
George Romero tells the story
of putting the film cans
356
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:59,280
in the trunk of his car,
driving to New York City,
357
00:16:59,330 --> 00:17:00,460
and they hear it.
358
00:17:00,500 --> 00:17:02,110
They hear it on the radio.
359
00:17:02,150 --> 00:17:04,420
The Reverend
Dr. Martin King, Jr.
360
00:17:04,460 --> 00:17:05,900
was killed
by an assassin's bullet
361
00:17:05,940 --> 00:17:07,600
tonight
in Memphis, Tennessee.
362
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,810
- And I can't imagine
363
00:17:09,860 --> 00:17:13,340
what happens in that car,
what that feeling is like,
364
00:17:13,380 --> 00:17:16,780
the crush, the blow,
the sinking,
365
00:17:16,820 --> 00:17:21,650
and I want to believe
that they know what they have.
366
00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:25,130
"Night of the Living Dead"
becomes what it is
367
00:17:25,180 --> 00:17:30,100
exactly because of what's
happening in this country
368
00:17:30,140 --> 00:17:31,580
while he's filming it.
369
00:17:31,620 --> 00:17:33,750
- I think
the tenseness of the time
370
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,840
and the turbulence
that was going on in society
371
00:17:36,890 --> 00:17:41,190
and the political drama
all fed into people
372
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,890
all of a sudden having a need to
wanna see themselves on screen
373
00:17:44,940 --> 00:17:48,070
and that gave birth to
the blacksploitation period.
374
00:17:52,730 --> 00:17:54,640
- We call 1970s film
375
00:17:54,690 --> 00:17:57,820
"blacksploitation"
and it's really a portmanteau
376
00:17:57,860 --> 00:18:01,340
for "black" and "exploitation".
377
00:18:01,390 --> 00:18:02,780
Blacks are on the big screen.
378
00:18:02,820 --> 00:18:06,960
Black audiences are really
joyful for the inclusion
379
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,660
but the representations
are sometimes just not right.
380
00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:13,620
We went
from maids to pimps and hos.
381
00:18:13,660 --> 00:18:15,490
At that time,
we didn't use that word
382
00:18:15,530 --> 00:18:16,710
profile...
- No, no.
383
00:18:16,750 --> 00:18:19,880
- But we were
horrifically profiled.
384
00:18:19,930 --> 00:18:22,840
I like to wear hats
and I bought me a new hat
385
00:18:22,890 --> 00:18:27,200
and some white boy yells at me,
"Hey, pimp!" you know,
386
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:28,720
and I think he's thinking
387
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,370
that he thinks
he's complimented me.
388
00:18:31,420 --> 00:18:34,120
The big hats and collars
389
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:41,080
and they were images that were
perpetrated by white people
390
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:47,130
who exploited these images
for their own gain.
391
00:18:47,170 --> 00:18:52,530
Sam Arkoff owned American
International Pictures, AIP,
392
00:18:52,570 --> 00:18:56,570
they were the great producers
of films
393
00:18:56,620 --> 00:19:00,270
that fell under
the blacksploitation period.
394
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:01,800
There are studios who get in
395
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,100
on the blacksploitation craze.
396
00:19:04,150 --> 00:19:08,190
And AIP's business model was,
"We're not going to lead.
397
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,760
We're going to look,
see what's happening out there,
398
00:19:11,810 --> 00:19:13,550
what might be popular,
399
00:19:13,590 --> 00:19:16,640
and then we're going to get on
kind of the back side of this
400
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,250
and produce more of it."
401
00:19:18,290 --> 00:19:22,600
Theirs was a strictly
for-profit budget model,
402
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:24,860
investing
as little as they could
403
00:19:24,910 --> 00:19:26,820
and hoping something stuck.
404
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,830
Their films would go on just
a few screens in some cases,
405
00:19:32,870 --> 00:19:36,480
often in black neighborhoods,
very low investment,
406
00:19:36,530 --> 00:19:38,570
very low quality.
407
00:19:38,620 --> 00:19:40,620
- At the time,
I was astute enough
408
00:19:40,660 --> 00:19:42,880
to look up AIP's budget,
409
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:44,750
but they weren't making
any money at all.
410
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,710
I mean, the rumor was, was
that they were in deep water,
411
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,670
and then "Blacula" brought in
a lot of money for them.
412
00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:59,110
- The name is Blacula!
413
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:00,990
Starring William Marshall,
414
00:20:01,030 --> 00:20:02,290
a black actor,
415
00:20:02,330 --> 00:20:05,770
directed by William Crain,
a black director.
416
00:20:05,820 --> 00:20:07,640
And so here's where you see
417
00:20:07,690 --> 00:20:11,780
how knowledgeable
black directors and actors
418
00:20:11,820 --> 00:20:14,960
can have an extraordinary
impact on a film.
419
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,000
- They wanted to do
"Count Brown's in Town".
420
00:20:17,050 --> 00:20:18,870
- "Brown's in Town"? Really?
- Yeah.
421
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:20,270
It was really...Yeah.
- "Brown's in Town"?
422
00:20:20,310 --> 00:20:22,010
- So, we decided we were
gonna do something else.
423
00:20:22,050 --> 00:20:24,010
I wasn't the favorite
person there for them...
424
00:20:24,050 --> 00:20:26,180
- No, of course not.
- ...because we had
425
00:20:26,230 --> 00:20:27,620
something else in mind.
426
00:20:27,660 --> 00:20:30,710
- The movie opens
with him with his queen
427
00:20:30,750 --> 00:20:32,970
trying to argue
with Count Dracula
428
00:20:33,020 --> 00:20:35,500
to end the transatlantic
slave trade.
429
00:20:35,540 --> 00:20:37,980
- To totally cease
the slave trade?
430
00:20:38,020 --> 00:20:39,150
When is the last time
431
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,200
black audiences
had seen themselves
432
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,810
expressed visually in the 1700s
as erudite and intelligent
433
00:20:45,860 --> 00:20:50,170
and holding court and trying to
discuss world affairs?
434
00:20:50,210 --> 00:20:53,340
- Slavery has merit,
I believe.
435
00:20:53,390 --> 00:20:58,170
- Merit? You find
"merit" in barbarity?
436
00:20:58,220 --> 00:20:59,960
- But it was a big deal!
- It was a big deal.
437
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,830
I just remember
right out of school
438
00:21:01,870 --> 00:21:03,050
everyone say
Black Dracula.
439
00:21:03,090 --> 00:21:05,350
- Vampires,
I think they're possibly
440
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:06,700
the most fascinatin of all.
441
00:21:06,750 --> 00:21:07,880
- That's all I remember.
442
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,270
"What? A black Dracula?"
443
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,710
And it gave you a sense of
something I can't even explain.
444
00:21:12,750 --> 00:21:14,760
I wanted to be an actor.
Something opened up
445
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:16,760
'cause I think that
affected me in a way
446
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,670
that probably
I don't even understand.
447
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,720
- I was still in high school
448
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,500
and I had dreams of being
the first black Dracula.
449
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,420
-
450
00:21:28,460 --> 00:21:31,730
- But when William Marshall,
who came out with it,
451
00:21:31,770 --> 00:21:33,730
I was like,
"Who could be mad about that?"
452
00:21:33,770 --> 00:21:36,990
I mean, it was--
because he was...
453
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:38,690
I've loved William Marshall.
454
00:21:38,740 --> 00:21:40,170
- When I was a kid,
455
00:21:40,220 --> 00:21:42,830
the vampires and the Draculas
that had been going on
456
00:21:42,870 --> 00:21:45,960
were these really soft,
metrosexual white guys
457
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,750
who didn't really have
an energy to them for me,
458
00:21:48,790 --> 00:21:50,880
and then, Blacula.
459
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:56,230
Okay, so he's this yummy,
yummy chocolate, dark, sexy man
460
00:21:56,270 --> 00:21:57,490
and so it was sort of,
461
00:21:57,540 --> 00:21:59,100
it was this really
confusing thing as a child
462
00:21:59,150 --> 00:22:00,760
because I'm like,
"Oh, my God, I'm scared!
463
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:02,760
But I'm excited.
But I'm scared.
464
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,070
But I'm interested.
I think I wanna kiss him."
465
00:22:05,110 --> 00:22:09,110
And I hadn't really experienced
that with a "villain" before,
466
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:13,860
so I would say Blacula
scared the fuck out of me.
467
00:22:13,900 --> 00:22:15,950
- I was proud
that a black man
468
00:22:15,990 --> 00:22:18,170
was kicking some butt.
- Was eating people.
469
00:22:18,210 --> 00:22:20,730
- Kicking butt, yeah.
- Hi, what'll you have?
470
00:22:20,780 --> 00:22:22,260
- Make is a Bloody Mary.
471
00:22:22,300 --> 00:22:25,000
- He was
having a Bloody Mary!
472
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,830
I found
a lot of tangible resistance
473
00:22:30,870 --> 00:22:34,790
and maybe even
tangible resentment...
474
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:36,920
- Racism?
- Yeah. Well, for racism,
475
00:22:36,970 --> 00:22:38,710
I mean, nobody...
- Because I'm sure your crew
476
00:22:38,750 --> 00:22:41,100
was predominantly white.
477
00:22:41,150 --> 00:22:42,760
- Everybody was white.
- All right.
478
00:22:44,020 --> 00:22:45,150
- Right now,
I can't remember
479
00:22:45,190 --> 00:22:46,980
anyone else black
that was on that set.
480
00:22:47,020 --> 00:22:48,150
There was
something of a resentment
481
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,590
on the part of many producers
482
00:22:49,630 --> 00:22:54,120
who didn't want our voices
to ring resonantly about
483
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,470
and create a new kind of genre.
484
00:22:58,900 --> 00:23:00,730
Remember the night club scene?
485
00:23:00,770 --> 00:23:02,470
And the 150 actors
in that club scene, right?
486
00:23:02,510 --> 00:23:04,080
- Right, right, right.
487
00:23:04,130 --> 00:23:07,130
- And so, there was
a mix of white and black.
488
00:23:07,170 --> 00:23:08,520
Right. Beautiful.
489
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:09,870
It really worked.
490
00:23:09,910 --> 00:23:13,180
And once the music
was supposed to start,
491
00:23:13,220 --> 00:23:16,310
kids were supposed to be dancing
and I watched the AD,
492
00:23:16,350 --> 00:23:20,920
the assistant director,
he had the black couples
493
00:23:20,970 --> 00:23:23,270
and he had white couples,
so I had this...
494
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,540
- He didn't mix it up?
- No, he didn't. He didn't.
495
00:23:25,580 --> 00:23:27,280
They didn't have gloves
to throw down but I said,
496
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:28,670
"Hold up, we're not
gonna do this.
497
00:23:28,710 --> 00:23:29,670
This is what you're gonna do.
498
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,240
You're gonna mix
these people up."
499
00:23:32,500 --> 00:23:35,810
And it went
all the way up to Sam Arkoff.
500
00:23:35,850 --> 00:23:37,070
- He got some resistance
501
00:23:37,110 --> 00:23:39,550
but his pushback helped
even the higher-ups
502
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,860
doing this film understand
that he was making
503
00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:44,250
something really meaty
and meaningful.
504
00:23:44,300 --> 00:23:48,340
It makes the film so memorable
and impactful even to this day.
505
00:23:50,390 --> 00:23:52,000
We're sitting in this wonderful
506
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:56,130
old police station,
and I saw this long range
507
00:23:56,180 --> 00:24:00,400
of about at least 20 yards,
508
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:01,440
and then I asked them
509
00:24:01,490 --> 00:24:03,230
for a high-speed camera.
- Okay.
510
00:24:03,270 --> 00:24:04,580
- Which would be
a slow-motion camera.
511
00:24:04,620 --> 00:24:05,930
- Right. Okay.
512
00:24:05,970 --> 00:24:08,190
- They didn't wanna do it.
I wasn't gonna get it.
513
00:24:08,230 --> 00:24:10,890
This went on
for at least a week.
514
00:24:10,930 --> 00:24:11,890
- Right.
- And so, I was waiting
515
00:24:11,930 --> 00:24:13,020
for this camera to show up.
516
00:24:13,060 --> 00:24:14,370
Never did show up.
517
00:24:14,410 --> 00:24:16,890
On the morning
that we got ready to do that,
518
00:24:16,940 --> 00:24:19,240
this extra van pulls up...
519
00:24:19,290 --> 00:24:21,250
- And they gave it to you?
- And these guys come out
520
00:24:21,290 --> 00:24:23,420
with this high-speed,
slow motion camera.
521
00:24:23,470 --> 00:24:24,470
- Okay.
522
00:24:24,510 --> 00:24:25,680
- They decided
to give it to you.
523
00:24:25,730 --> 00:24:27,120
- I bet they did
after they start seeing
524
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:28,380
those dailies, right?
525
00:24:28,430 --> 00:24:30,390
- People are still
talking about that shot.
526
00:24:43,660 --> 00:24:45,920
And it created
kind of a cultural shift
527
00:24:45,970 --> 00:24:47,920
and to have that awareness
to say, "Me, too,"
528
00:24:47,970 --> 00:24:51,010
and then to come back with
"Scream Blacula Scream",
529
00:24:51,060 --> 00:24:54,100
Pam Grier and Richard Lawson's
first role.
530
00:24:54,150 --> 00:24:55,540
"Scream Blacula Scream"
531
00:24:55,580 --> 00:25:00,280
I did with William Marshall,
Pam Grier, Don Mitchell,
532
00:25:00,330 --> 00:25:03,460
and a host of other
wonderful black actors.
533
00:25:03,510 --> 00:25:05,250
I'm a Pam Grier fan.
534
00:25:05,290 --> 00:25:08,290
She ends up becoming
the lead of the film
535
00:25:08,340 --> 00:25:12,040
which to me is fun
because, in my opinion,
536
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,950
it's one of the only times
they let her act,
537
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,000
like she really got to be
a real person
538
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,310
and not a sex symbol.
539
00:25:21,350 --> 00:25:25,050
- Stay away! Who are you?
540
00:25:25,090 --> 00:25:28,490
- This is when you start to see
women really emerge.
541
00:25:28,530 --> 00:25:31,140
Women are now starting to take
the center stage.
542
00:25:31,190 --> 00:25:32,530
- How about that?
543
00:25:32,580 --> 00:25:34,670
- She got to use her mind.
- Change her wardrobe,
544
00:25:34,710 --> 00:25:35,750
she used her mind,
545
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,020
of course she saves
the two guys
546
00:25:37,060 --> 00:25:38,370
at the end.
- Yes.
547
00:25:38,410 --> 00:25:42,850
And she's like an historian
of black antiquity,
548
00:25:42,890 --> 00:25:44,070
you know...
- Exactly.
549
00:25:44,110 --> 00:25:46,200
That whole diaspora.
550
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:47,380
- In the white horror movies,
551
00:25:47,420 --> 00:25:51,250
the voodoo is always
like the evil force.
552
00:25:51,290 --> 00:25:52,510
- Yeah.
- And the villain.
553
00:25:52,550 --> 00:25:54,380
But in like
"Scream Blacula Scream"
554
00:25:54,430 --> 00:25:56,910
it was like the force of good,
it was kind of...
555
00:25:56,950 --> 00:25:59,000
- Exactly.
- They relied on that
556
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,260
to conquer his curse basically.
557
00:26:01,300 --> 00:26:04,350
They were using it
to remove his curse.
558
00:26:04,390 --> 00:26:07,260
The cross horrors history voodoo
559
00:26:07,310 --> 00:26:10,090
is explicitly
a sign to black people.
560
00:26:10,140 --> 00:26:11,700
All black people know voodoo!
561
00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:15,360
And it's really helpful
if they're in Louisiana.
562
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,020
- How do you kill
someone with voodoo?
563
00:26:19,060 --> 00:26:21,320
- You often see black women
564
00:26:21,370 --> 00:26:24,760
associated with voodoo
on screen.
565
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,760
Commonly, we've seen black women
be voodoo priestesses
566
00:26:28,810 --> 00:26:31,770
and things of that nature,
and always use it for ill-will.
567
00:26:31,810 --> 00:26:35,550
- A is gonna growl,
and rain is gonna rain.
568
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,690
- Black women
were very much centered
569
00:26:37,730 --> 00:26:41,650
as frightening because
they wielded power.
570
00:26:41,690 --> 00:26:46,040
"Abby" the blacksploitation era
film, is a really good example
571
00:26:46,090 --> 00:26:49,350
of both fear of black women
in general
572
00:26:49,390 --> 00:26:53,400
but fear of black women's
sexuality in particular.
573
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,490
-
574
00:26:55,530 --> 00:26:59,230
You're mine now!
Mine!
575
00:26:59,270 --> 00:27:01,490
- Abby.
- That's Abby.
576
00:27:01,540 --> 00:27:04,370
This scared me so much
when I was a kid
577
00:27:04,410 --> 00:27:07,110
because she was pretty,
but then she went crazy.
578
00:27:07,150 --> 00:27:08,720
-
- Yeah.
579
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,940
- What do you think
of my powers now?
580
00:27:14,110 --> 00:27:16,120
- Black women, of course,
have always been depicted
581
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,250
as highly sexualized.
582
00:27:18,290 --> 00:27:23,080
This is definitely something
that came to the fore with Abby.
583
00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:24,820
On the one level,
you could say she's sort of
584
00:27:24,860 --> 00:27:29,560
resisting her defined role
as sort of a church wife,
585
00:27:29,610 --> 00:27:32,350
becoming possessed
by a sex demon
586
00:27:32,390 --> 00:27:36,270
who basically attacks men
through sex.
587
00:27:36,310 --> 00:27:37,920
It's a silly film,
588
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,100
but what's not silly about it
is it does point to this fear
589
00:27:42,140 --> 00:27:44,970
of black women
and black womanhood.
590
00:27:45,010 --> 00:27:46,490
- There is this one, I think,
591
00:27:46,540 --> 00:27:49,760
kind of cool movie.
It's called "Sugar Hill".
592
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,110
-
593
00:27:52,150 --> 00:27:55,460
- Sugar's community
is under siege
594
00:27:55,500 --> 00:27:58,640
by some corrupt
white gangsters.
595
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,810
-
596
00:28:00,860 --> 00:28:03,210
She conjured this voodoo god
597
00:28:03,250 --> 00:28:05,340
to get revenge
on these gangsters
598
00:28:05,380 --> 00:28:06,730
who killed her boyfriend.
599
00:28:06,780 --> 00:28:09,600
- I want the power
to destroy my enemies.
600
00:28:09,650 --> 00:28:12,130
It was
one of the early films
601
00:28:12,170 --> 00:28:14,650
where a black woman
was the lead.
602
00:28:14,700 --> 00:28:15,780
- Remember me?
603
00:28:15,830 --> 00:28:18,570
- She had made
her own determinations,
604
00:28:18,610 --> 00:28:23,530
was not suppressed by men
and the system.
605
00:28:23,570 --> 00:28:26,660
She was smart, powerful,
she was sexy,
606
00:28:26,710 --> 00:28:30,150
she was intelligent,
and she was willful.
607
00:28:30,190 --> 00:28:32,320
- Show us what big man you are.
608
00:28:32,370 --> 00:28:33,410
This is a narrative
609
00:28:33,450 --> 00:28:35,280
that isn't entirely
unproblematic.
610
00:28:35,330 --> 00:28:40,680
It does resurrect
these early notions of black men
611
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,680
lusting for white women.
612
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,160
-
613
00:28:45,210 --> 00:28:47,860
- And so,
for female audiences to watch
614
00:28:47,900 --> 00:28:50,300
these movies on the big screen,
615
00:28:50,340 --> 00:28:53,300
certainly came with
a bit of conflict.
616
00:28:53,340 --> 00:28:54,870
- So, the blacksploitation era
617
00:28:54,910 --> 00:28:58,170
probably gets mixed marks
in terms of, you know,
618
00:28:58,220 --> 00:29:01,610
overall how black life
was being portrayed,
619
00:29:01,660 --> 00:29:05,050
but you can see in even
just these horror films
620
00:29:05,090 --> 00:29:06,920
that there's an effort
to do more.
621
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,190
- One movie from the '70s
622
00:29:13,230 --> 00:29:16,190
that gets lumped in
with blacksploitation
623
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:17,800
is "Ganja & Hess".
624
00:29:17,850 --> 00:29:20,280
It's really cool
and it's from a black director.
625
00:29:20,330 --> 00:29:22,200
Bill Gunn is his name.
626
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,110
- Bill Gunn is a guy
627
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:26,460
who a lot of people
don't know about
628
00:29:26,510 --> 00:29:29,640
because he was a playwright,
a screenwriter.
629
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,730
He wrote the screenplay for
a movie called "The Landlord"
630
00:29:32,770 --> 00:29:34,600
that Hal Ashby did.
631
00:29:34,650 --> 00:29:37,610
Bill Gunn was in episodes
of "The Outer Limits",
632
00:29:37,650 --> 00:29:39,000
"Man From U.N.C.L.E.",
you know,
633
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:40,390
they just wanted him to make
634
00:29:40,430 --> 00:29:41,610
a horror film.
- Right.
635
00:29:41,650 --> 00:29:43,390
- You know,
with black folks in it.
636
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,530
And the story is that he just,
637
00:29:46,570 --> 00:29:48,570
I think the producers were
out of town or something,
638
00:29:48,620 --> 00:29:51,530
and he took the whole
cast and crew
639
00:29:51,580 --> 00:29:55,580
up to some place at New York
and rewrote it and shot it.
640
00:29:55,620 --> 00:29:58,020
- Wow.
- You know, to talk about
641
00:29:58,060 --> 00:30:00,670
the history of blood,
the history of African blood,
642
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,540
and how it's passed down
to the ancestors.
643
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,420
- This is a film about
a very erudite scholar
644
00:30:07,460 --> 00:30:08,770
who struggles with addiction,
645
00:30:08,810 --> 00:30:12,510
so he's using blood
as an addiction metaphor
646
00:30:12,550 --> 00:30:14,730
which is something
that spoke to this director
647
00:30:14,770 --> 00:30:17,250
and in his mind,
I'm sure spoke to his community.
648
00:30:17,300 --> 00:30:18,600
- He was recently
turned into a vampire
649
00:30:18,650 --> 00:30:20,690
and he falls in love
with this woman
650
00:30:20,740 --> 00:30:23,780
and he kinda has to decide
whether to turn her
651
00:30:23,830 --> 00:30:24,830
and that sort of thing.
652
00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:27,830
And it's very slow
and meditative.
653
00:30:32,010 --> 00:30:34,140
Throughout the movie, Hess,
654
00:30:34,180 --> 00:30:37,710
no matter how wealthy he is,
no matter how educated,
655
00:30:37,750 --> 00:30:40,280
is still very fearful
of the police.
656
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,020
- There's no possible way
for you to know this
657
00:30:42,060 --> 00:30:45,850
but I'm the only colored
on the block, you see,
658
00:30:45,890 --> 00:30:49,200
and if another black man
washes ashore around here,
659
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:50,680
you can believe
660
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,330
the authorities will
drag me out for questioning.
661
00:30:53,380 --> 00:30:55,340
- The police still remain
a threat
662
00:30:55,380 --> 00:30:58,820
to even this very wealthy,
well-educated black man.
663
00:30:58,860 --> 00:31:01,340
- It got
like a standing ovation
664
00:31:01,380 --> 00:31:02,990
at the Cannes Film Festival.
- Yeah.
665
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:07,300
- It played at Cannes
and got a lot of awards there.
666
00:31:07,350 --> 00:31:10,350
When it got to America,
not so much.
667
00:31:10,390 --> 00:31:12,350
- Hollywood hates this movie
668
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,700
because it doesn't look
anything like
669
00:31:14,750 --> 00:31:17,660
the blacksploitation films
of this period.
670
00:31:17,710 --> 00:31:19,620
Frankly, it's a little
too smart.
671
00:31:19,660 --> 00:31:21,840
It's a little too stylistic.
672
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:26,500
The characters are really a bit
too developed and realized.
673
00:31:26,540 --> 00:31:28,020
They wanted something cruder.
674
00:31:28,060 --> 00:31:30,980
- They recut it.
before years, you know,
675
00:31:31,020 --> 00:31:35,070
I used to go some video stores
and it was recut as a movie
676
00:31:35,110 --> 00:31:36,770
called "Blood Couple".
677
00:31:36,810 --> 00:31:38,330
For the longest time,
678
00:31:38,380 --> 00:31:40,730
it was sort of
in this netherworld
679
00:31:40,770 --> 00:31:43,690
where the true version
of the film
680
00:31:43,730 --> 00:31:46,910
was at the Museum of Modern Art
in New York.
681
00:31:46,950 --> 00:31:49,350
- It was a film
that I heard about for years
682
00:31:49,390 --> 00:31:50,910
before I was finally to see it.
683
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:52,350
- Hmm-mm.
684
00:31:52,390 --> 00:31:55,400
- Actually, Bill Gunn,
when I was at Howard, came.
685
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,090
He didn't come with
a print of the film.
686
00:31:57,140 --> 00:31:58,400
- He just came
to talk about it?
687
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,180
- Yeah, 'cause
the only print was available,
688
00:32:01,230 --> 00:32:04,970
the only print in existence
was at the Museum of Modern Art.
689
00:32:05,010 --> 00:32:06,410
He was an interesting cat,
690
00:32:06,450 --> 00:32:08,020
and "Ganja & Hess"
was his chance
691
00:32:08,060 --> 00:32:14,890
to elevate a vampire story
into something more meaningful.
692
00:32:14,940 --> 00:32:16,020
"Ganja & Hess"
693
00:32:16,070 --> 00:32:17,770
is like this beautiful,
artistic film
694
00:32:17,810 --> 00:32:19,110
but it wasn't the only film
during that time
695
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,640
that was making
these broad stroke statements
696
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:23,950
about what was going on
in society.
697
00:32:23,990 --> 00:32:25,770
There's a lot of
blacksploitation horror films
698
00:32:25,820 --> 00:32:28,600
that kind of deal with kind of
involuntary experimentation
699
00:32:28,650 --> 00:32:30,730
and it doesn't feel
like a coincidence.
700
00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:35,480
The Tuskeegee Experiment
was this medical experiment
701
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,610
that spanned a 40-year time.
702
00:32:38,660 --> 00:32:41,440
There were these tests done
on Southern men in the South,
703
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,010
some had syphilis,
some didn't,
704
00:32:43,050 --> 00:32:44,490
but they all thought
they were being treated
705
00:32:44,530 --> 00:32:46,450
for what was called "bad blood".
706
00:32:48,620 --> 00:32:50,620
They were promised
free healthcare, free meals,
707
00:32:50,670 --> 00:32:53,980
free burial, but they weren't
even treated.
708
00:32:54,020 --> 00:32:55,500
They were pretty much
being tested
709
00:32:55,540 --> 00:32:59,070
to see the effects of syphilis
over a lifetime.
710
00:33:00,500 --> 00:33:01,850
Some of those men
lost their lives
711
00:33:01,900 --> 00:33:03,590
without knowing what they were
fully consenting to,
712
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:05,120
and there was
this big investigation
713
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,160
and it came a halt
in early to mid-1970s.
714
00:33:09,510 --> 00:33:12,820
- You wanna use me for some type
of human guinea pig, is that it?
715
00:33:13,910 --> 00:33:16,040
"Dr. Black & Mr. Hyde",
716
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:17,390
"Blackenstein",
717
00:33:17,430 --> 00:33:19,910
those are films that were
lackluster in quality
718
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,440
and maybe even story,
but they are centered around
719
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,880
medical experimentation
on black males.
720
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:28,400
And so, you couldn't help
but notice
721
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,010
those two things coming together
and kind of converging.
722
00:33:31,060 --> 00:33:33,010
- This could be a good chance
to try out that serum.
723
00:33:33,060 --> 00:33:36,150
- No, you can't
try that serum on a human.
724
00:33:36,190 --> 00:33:37,150
That's not right.
725
00:33:39,540 --> 00:33:40,800
Since blacks were brought here
726
00:33:40,850 --> 00:33:42,850
during slavery,
we were treated as lab rats
727
00:33:42,890 --> 00:33:45,420
and for various,
different medical purposes,
728
00:33:45,460 --> 00:33:48,070
they treated us as inhuman,
as we were seen,
729
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,770
and so, you see a lot of that
even today
730
00:33:50,810 --> 00:33:52,690
with movies like "Get Out".
731
00:33:52,730 --> 00:33:54,510
- Why us, huh?
732
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:58,610
Why black people?
733
00:33:58,650 --> 00:34:00,170
Also
"The Girl with All the Gifts"
734
00:34:00,220 --> 00:34:01,910
and even "The First Purge".
735
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:03,960
- Should you choose
to actively participate,
736
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,050
we'll implant
a tracking device.
737
00:34:06,090 --> 00:34:08,920
After that, you'll be all set,
as they say, to purge.
738
00:34:10,750 --> 00:34:13,050
- As sort of bad as
739
00:34:13,100 --> 00:34:15,880
some of these
blacksploitation films were,
740
00:34:15,930 --> 00:34:17,450
they just simply got worse.
741
00:34:17,490 --> 00:34:18,710
-
742
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,630
- "Blackenstein" is so bad,
743
00:34:20,670 --> 00:34:22,540
literally,
you can't see the film.
744
00:34:22,590 --> 00:34:23,850
I mean, you're like,
745
00:34:23,890 --> 00:34:25,760
Did they purposefully
shoot it in shadow
746
00:34:25,810 --> 00:34:28,550
or just completely in the dark?
747
00:34:28,590 --> 00:34:29,940
In addition to that,
748
00:34:29,980 --> 00:34:33,680
civil rights groups
are protesting these films
749
00:34:33,730 --> 00:34:36,250
and saying that they're not good
for black culture,
750
00:34:36,290 --> 00:34:38,860
they're not good for
black representations.
751
00:34:38,910 --> 00:34:43,080
- We may not have
liked necessarily what we saw.
752
00:34:43,130 --> 00:34:44,130
-
753
00:34:44,170 --> 00:34:45,430
- It was stereotypical,
754
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,440
but those doors
slowly started to open.
755
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,090
So, as all things in life,
there's a double-edged sword.
756
00:34:52,140 --> 00:34:54,880
- We're finally seeing
a number of movies
757
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,270
where black people
are on the big screen.
758
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,320
And so, you think, "Okay,
759
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,450
the momentum
is going to continue
760
00:35:02,500 --> 00:35:03,760
and maybe in the '80s,
761
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,930
we're going to get
these representations right."
762
00:35:06,980 --> 00:35:09,590
Exactly the opposite happens.
763
00:35:11,330 --> 00:35:12,330
-
764
00:35:16,990 --> 00:35:19,770
- I always knew
that if there was somebody black
765
00:35:19,820 --> 00:35:21,950
in the horror film,
they will be the first to die.
766
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:26,300
MIGUEL A. NUÑI remember
one of the first things I did
767
00:35:26,340 --> 00:35:27,870
was when I got the script
768
00:35:27,910 --> 00:35:30,570
was count the number of pages
before I died.
769
00:35:32,050 --> 00:35:34,000
- If we're not dead
in the first 15 minutes,
770
00:35:34,050 --> 00:35:36,880
we're certainly dead
by the last 30 minutes.
771
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,230
- It's like
the red shirt phenomenon
772
00:35:39,270 --> 00:35:40,710
in "Star Trek".
773
00:35:40,750 --> 00:35:43,140
You know you can't kill Spock,
you can't kill McCoy,
774
00:35:43,190 --> 00:35:45,190
you can't kill Captain Kirk
or Uhura,
775
00:35:45,230 --> 00:35:49,500
so this poor crew member
with the red shirt
776
00:35:49,540 --> 00:35:51,020
is the one who's going to die.
777
00:35:53,550 --> 00:35:55,030
And I think that's very much
778
00:35:55,070 --> 00:35:58,070
where blacks were kind of
stuck in horror for a while.
779
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,640
It became such a joke
about first to die
780
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:02,160
that there were these
sort of tongue-in-cheek
781
00:36:02,210 --> 00:36:03,640
references to it.
782
00:36:03,690 --> 00:36:05,730
Snag one.
783
00:36:05,780 --> 00:36:07,340
- Snag one?
- Yeah, snag one
784
00:36:07,390 --> 00:36:09,780
and put 'em in the bucket.
785
00:36:09,820 --> 00:36:11,690
- I seen this movie.
The black dude dies first.
786
00:36:11,740 --> 00:36:12,830
You snag it.
787
00:36:12,870 --> 00:36:14,390
- So, let's talk about
black people
788
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,830
always die first
in horror movies.
789
00:36:16,870 --> 00:36:18,790
It's not entirely true.
790
00:36:18,830 --> 00:36:20,530
- Well, in "Alien",
Yaphet is actually
791
00:36:20,570 --> 00:36:24,490
the last male to die, you know?
- That's true. He is.
792
00:36:24,530 --> 00:36:26,620
Yeah, he makes it aways.
793
00:36:26,670 --> 00:36:28,620
- Get out of the room!
794
00:36:28,670 --> 00:36:30,670
- Sometimes they do die first.
795
00:36:30,710 --> 00:36:32,150
-
796
00:36:32,190 --> 00:36:35,150
- But I wanna kinda dispel
a little bit of that myth.
797
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:36,550
It often happens.
798
00:36:36,590 --> 00:36:38,680
-
799
00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:39,940
- But then, at the same time,
800
00:36:39,980 --> 00:36:43,550
it can't always happen
because black people
801
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,990
play a particular role
in horror films.
802
00:36:47,030 --> 00:36:52,300
For example, if you have
a really horrible, big,
803
00:36:52,340 --> 00:36:56,260
kind of badass monster,
how do you evidence
804
00:36:56,300 --> 00:37:00,790
that that creature
is as bad as it can get?
805
00:37:00,830 --> 00:37:02,480
You need a black guy.
806
00:37:02,530 --> 00:37:05,400
- I'm Sergeant Buford Brown,
but my teammates call me Buba.
807
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,270
- If the monster beats that guy,
808
00:37:09,620 --> 00:37:12,230
then that monster
must be a true badass.
809
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,410
- You believe any of this
voodoo bullshit, Blair?
810
00:37:14,450 --> 00:37:15,540
- Well, you know, my first,
811
00:37:15,580 --> 00:37:17,890
my very first movie was
"The Thing".
812
00:37:17,930 --> 00:37:19,890
- Yes! Yes, yes.
- I lived to the very end.
813
00:37:19,940 --> 00:37:21,850
I survived.
- Yes.
814
00:37:21,900 --> 00:37:25,940
In my next movie, I did die
but not till the end.
815
00:37:27,730 --> 00:37:30,730
- Their roles are tokens,
816
00:37:30,770 --> 00:37:33,560
and so, they show up
as sidekicks,
817
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,780
incidental characters.
818
00:37:35,820 --> 00:37:37,910
- Which would be fine
819
00:37:37,950 --> 00:37:40,610
except that often,
they don't exist
820
00:37:40,650 --> 00:37:42,390
for any other reason
in the movie.
821
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:46,220
They don't have wants,
needs of their own,
822
00:37:46,270 --> 00:37:47,400
their only concern
823
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,010
is the welfare
of the white protagonists,
824
00:37:50,050 --> 00:37:52,010
and that's where
it becomes problematic.
825
00:37:52,060 --> 00:37:54,140
- I looked at it as I was
the chosen black person
826
00:37:54,190 --> 00:37:55,280
for the film.
- I know, that's right.
827
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:56,360
- I didn't look at it
in a negative way.
828
00:37:56,410 --> 00:37:57,670
I looked at it like
I was chosen.
829
00:37:57,710 --> 00:37:59,240
- I didn't look at it
in a negative way, either,
830
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:00,320
'cause I was getting a check.
MIGUEL A. NUÑAbsolutely.
831
00:38:00,370 --> 00:38:02,020
Everybody who had said
anything about it,
832
00:38:02,070 --> 00:38:03,680
I'm in "Friday the 13th",
you're not,
833
00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:05,160
so I didn't look at it
like that.
834
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,770
But it was really
a good thing to be black
835
00:38:07,810 --> 00:38:09,290
and, in any film,
in the '80s,
836
00:38:09,330 --> 00:38:11,990
not much less a horror movie,
but any film.
837
00:38:12,030 --> 00:38:13,160
- I was like,
"Hey, we're in this movie!"
838
00:38:13,210 --> 00:38:15,990
We're dying first.
839
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,080
-
840
00:38:20,130 --> 00:38:21,870
- Or we're sacrificing
ourselves.
841
00:38:21,910 --> 00:38:25,000
-
842
00:38:28,180 --> 00:38:30,750
Or we're just a sidekick
or we're just being sassy.
843
00:38:30,790 --> 00:38:32,750
- Dan keeping you up again?
844
00:38:32,790 --> 00:38:34,320
Girl, you gotta put a lock
in that window.
845
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,880
- Or we're not gonna appear
after the first act or whatever.
846
00:38:36,930 --> 00:38:39,970
But we were in it.
We were in it!
847
00:38:40,020 --> 00:38:43,020
It's such a powerful validation
of your existence
848
00:38:43,060 --> 00:38:46,850
and I think it's really
difficult for a lot of whites
849
00:38:46,890 --> 00:38:49,160
to even imagine
what it would feel like
850
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,200
if you were surrounded
by entertainment
851
00:38:51,250 --> 00:38:53,940
that was nothing
but black people, right?
852
00:38:53,990 --> 00:38:56,340
- I got on set
and I read the script,
853
00:38:56,380 --> 00:38:58,470
and there was several little
racial things in there.
854
00:39:01,910 --> 00:39:03,610
- I see you!
855
00:39:03,650 --> 00:39:05,560
Chocolate man.
856
00:39:05,610 --> 00:39:06,830
- And so,
I, you know, I said,
857
00:39:06,870 --> 00:39:09,570
"Okay, you know,
I'm gonna be alone on this."
858
00:39:11,870 --> 00:39:14,790
- Scary, isn't it?
859
00:39:14,830 --> 00:39:16,140
- Back when
I was doing "The Craft",
860
00:39:16,180 --> 00:39:18,050
I definitely
was really nervous
861
00:39:18,100 --> 00:39:19,840
about how to portray
this character.
862
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,930
Like Bonnie has burns,
or what's her name?
863
00:39:23,970 --> 00:39:27,060
Sarah!
scars.
864
00:39:27,110 --> 00:39:29,500
And the other one is poor
and very angry
865
00:39:29,540 --> 00:39:31,200
and probably bipolar, right?
866
00:39:31,240 --> 00:39:32,460
So when I first auditioned,
867
00:39:32,500 --> 00:39:34,900
I had a big monologue
about being anorexic
868
00:39:34,940 --> 00:39:37,420
and then I think
once they decided to cast me,
869
00:39:37,470 --> 00:39:41,300
that is when they made
race her issue,
870
00:39:41,340 --> 00:39:44,120
but for me, I was like,
"I don't have an issue."
871
00:39:44,170 --> 00:39:45,690
I didn't think it was
a big enough problem
872
00:39:45,730 --> 00:39:47,260
for her to have.
873
00:39:47,300 --> 00:39:49,520
Although, in retrospect,
I actually think it's fantastic
874
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:53,090
they had it in because
that is the kind of racism,
875
00:39:53,130 --> 00:39:57,090
whether it was subtle or big,
that I went through,
876
00:39:57,140 --> 00:39:59,100
I'm sure you went through,
and everyone went through,
877
00:39:59,140 --> 00:40:00,580
but isn't it interesting
that I was able to
878
00:40:00,620 --> 00:40:02,530
compartmentalize it
and be like, "What?
879
00:40:02,580 --> 00:40:05,060
She doesn't have a problem,"
because it's so ingrained in me
880
00:40:05,100 --> 00:40:06,930
that that's a part of me
that I'm gonna go into a store
881
00:40:06,970 --> 00:40:08,370
and someone's
gonna be horrible to me
882
00:40:08,410 --> 00:40:10,890
or somebody white's gonna say
something terrible.
883
00:40:10,930 --> 00:40:12,540
- Why are you doing this
to me, Laura?
884
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,810
- Because I don't like Negroids.
885
00:40:16,850 --> 00:40:18,200
- To this day,
people come up to me
886
00:40:18,250 --> 00:40:19,810
and tell me how much it meant.
887
00:40:19,860 --> 00:40:21,470
I was getting off a train,
this little girl was getting on
888
00:40:21,510 --> 00:40:22,730
and she would,
889
00:40:22,770 --> 00:40:25,340
"Yo... yo.. you were
in the Crafts movie!"
890
00:40:25,380 --> 00:40:27,990
And I realized,
"Oh! Oh, oh!"
891
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,210
I wasn't even thinking
that like I'm now in a movie,
892
00:40:31,260 --> 00:40:33,300
so these girls don't have to
go through what I did
893
00:40:33,350 --> 00:40:35,390
which was, you know,
watching "Pretty in Pink"
894
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:36,960
and going, "There's no one
who looks like me,
895
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,350
or acts like me,
or sounds like me."
896
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,920
I am going to be that
for these girls.
897
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,140
- I drink of my sisters
898
00:40:44,180 --> 00:40:48,710
and I ask for the ability
to not hate those who hate me,
899
00:40:48,750 --> 00:40:52,190
especially racist pieces
of bleach blonde shit
900
00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:53,580
like Laura Lizzie.
901
00:40:53,630 --> 00:40:56,720
- I think what Rochelle did
was she gave us...
902
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,160
she gave us a way to kind of
talk about our own experiences
903
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:00,550
and be comfortable with them
904
00:41:00,590 --> 00:41:03,900
because a lot of us were
in like all-white spaces.
905
00:41:03,940 --> 00:41:05,470
- I live in a white world.
906
00:41:05,510 --> 00:41:06,990
I mean, most of the time,
all I'm around is white people.
907
00:41:07,030 --> 00:41:09,040
A lot of times,
when you're living in the world,
908
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,690
so you don't think of it being,
"Oh, I'm a token,"
909
00:41:11,730 --> 00:41:13,260
or anything like that.
910
00:41:13,300 --> 00:41:15,520
You're just thinking, "Oh,
I finally got a position in this
911
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,520
and it'll bring me
other positions,"
912
00:41:17,570 --> 00:41:22,220
so I think you think positively
about what you're doing.
913
00:41:22,270 --> 00:41:23,790
It didn't
really matter to me
914
00:41:23,830 --> 00:41:25,180
because we were working.
915
00:41:25,230 --> 00:41:28,010
I was so happy that I had
a check but, on the set,
916
00:41:28,050 --> 00:41:30,450
it was absolute...
I was the only black there.
917
00:41:30,490 --> 00:41:33,020
And I think minorities
all over the world
918
00:41:33,060 --> 00:41:35,100
felt that Kincaid
was their hero.
919
00:41:35,150 --> 00:41:36,540
Let's go kick
the motherfucker's ass
920
00:41:36,580 --> 00:41:38,280
all over dreamland.
921
00:41:38,330 --> 00:41:40,200
Every script that I read
922
00:41:40,240 --> 00:41:41,420
and the leading man,
923
00:41:42,550 --> 00:41:43,980
that was my part!
924
00:41:44,030 --> 00:41:45,290
That's the part
I shoulda played!
925
00:41:45,330 --> 00:41:47,550
But I understood where it was.
926
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:48,380
There was no resentment.
927
00:41:48,420 --> 00:41:51,730
It was like, "In due time."
928
00:41:51,770 --> 00:41:54,380
- Perhaps the quintessential,
929
00:41:54,430 --> 00:41:57,170
although it pains me to say,
token character,
930
00:41:57,210 --> 00:41:59,910
is Scatman Crothers
in "The Shining".
931
00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:01,130
- No problem, Mr. Urban,
932
00:42:01,170 --> 00:42:03,480
I was just getting
to the ice cream.
933
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,660
- It pains me to say it because
he's a terrific performer.
934
00:42:09,970 --> 00:42:12,530
The character
played by Scatman Crothers
935
00:42:12,580 --> 00:42:16,750
who is a psychic in the book
survives, but in the film,
936
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:20,150
to set up a danger
for the important characters,
937
00:42:20,190 --> 00:42:22,630
meaning the child and the wife,
938
00:42:22,670 --> 00:42:25,110
Scatman Crothers
got an axe to his chest
939
00:42:25,150 --> 00:42:27,070
the minute the brother
walked through the door.
940
00:42:27,110 --> 00:42:28,900
-
941
00:42:32,380 --> 00:42:33,900
- Always bothered me
'cause I was always thinking,
942
00:42:33,950 --> 00:42:36,430
"Oh, if he's shinin', how come
943
00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:37,910
he didn't see it coming?"
- He should see that.
944
00:42:37,950 --> 00:42:39,130
- He shoulda ducked that axe.
945
00:42:39,170 --> 00:42:41,080
- At the time, I mean,
946
00:42:41,130 --> 00:42:42,780
I thought it was
an unusual choice
947
00:42:42,820 --> 00:42:45,260
because I knew it hadn't
happened that way in the novel.
948
00:42:45,310 --> 00:42:47,260
I didn't understand
that I was seeing a trope called
949
00:42:47,310 --> 00:42:48,960
the sacrificial Negro.
950
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:50,310
- The sacrificial Negro
951
00:42:50,350 --> 00:42:52,970
is just the character
who literally just like
952
00:42:53,010 --> 00:42:54,840
puts themselves
in the face of danger
953
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:58,970
and dies in order for
the white character to survive.
954
00:42:59,010 --> 00:43:00,620
- In the first "Annabelle",
955
00:43:00,670 --> 00:43:03,580
poor Alfre Woodard
has no investment in the film
956
00:43:03,630 --> 00:43:05,460
other than helping
the white characters...
957
00:43:05,500 --> 00:43:08,200
- No, no!
-
958
00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:09,720
And I was like,
"That's a little retro,"
959
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,510
because you don't see
that so much anymore.
960
00:43:12,550 --> 00:43:14,680
- It was literally
Alfre Woodard saying,
961
00:43:14,730 --> 00:43:17,950
"Oh, I have lived my entire life
just to save you."
962
00:43:17,990 --> 00:43:19,690
And it's just like,
963
00:43:19,730 --> 00:43:23,000
"Oh, my God,
that drove me nuts!"
964
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:24,080
- I'm over that.
965
00:43:24,130 --> 00:43:25,520
I've seen that
in almost every movie
966
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,000
I grew up with as a child
where, you know,
967
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:33,740
the desexualized
black woman mammy figure
968
00:43:33,790 --> 00:43:38,230
gives her life so that
the little white girl can live.
969
00:43:38,270 --> 00:43:41,580
That's noble, I guess,
but I just feel like,
970
00:43:41,620 --> 00:43:44,670
Why can't everybody live?
Or everybody die?
971
00:43:44,710 --> 00:43:47,020
- I think it really
honestly goes back
972
00:43:47,060 --> 00:43:49,760
to that era of
the "Birth of a Nation"
973
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,020
where you have
the faithful servant trope.
974
00:43:52,070 --> 00:43:57,070
That faithful servant trope
is a really important image
975
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:01,120
for a lot of races
because it shows them
976
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,380
that slavery and Jim Crow
weren't so bad!
977
00:44:04,430 --> 00:44:05,860
Sometimes those
secondary characters
978
00:44:05,910 --> 00:44:08,260
are just gonna have to die
because if they don't,
979
00:44:08,300 --> 00:44:09,870
the audience won't believe
980
00:44:09,910 --> 00:44:12,350
something scary is about to
happen to the real characters
981
00:44:12,390 --> 00:44:14,180
who are not
the black characters,
982
00:44:14,220 --> 00:44:17,270
which is what I think
gives birth to this other
983
00:44:17,310 --> 00:44:19,400
horrible trope
which is the magical Negro.
984
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,230
- Molly, you in danger, girl.
985
00:44:22,270 --> 00:44:23,880
- They have super wisdom
986
00:44:23,930 --> 00:44:26,670
that helps like these
white characters kind of thrive.
987
00:44:26,710 --> 00:44:29,060
- It's one of those boxes
that black people get put in,
988
00:44:29,100 --> 00:44:31,240
the sort Uncle Remus thing,
989
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:36,330
where we're somehow afforded
some mystical wisdom.
990
00:44:36,370 --> 00:44:39,770
- Alex,
your friend's departure shows
991
00:44:39,810 --> 00:44:43,510
that death has a new design
for all of you.
992
00:44:43,550 --> 00:44:46,210
- Then you have the other side
of a terrible coin
993
00:44:46,250 --> 00:44:48,120
which is invisibility.
994
00:44:48,170 --> 00:44:49,430
- I remember being
when I was younger...
995
00:44:49,470 --> 00:44:51,080
- Yeah.
- Like around that age,
996
00:44:51,130 --> 00:44:53,220
like seven to eight grade and
like discovering scary movies
997
00:44:53,260 --> 00:44:56,350
like, "You know what,
I'm not gonna die
998
00:44:56,390 --> 00:44:58,130
'cause I'm not even in this."
-
999
00:44:58,180 --> 00:44:59,790
It's like
all my friends at the sleepover
1000
00:44:59,830 --> 00:45:01,620
should be scared
'cause they're all white
1001
00:45:01,660 --> 00:45:04,050
and no one's coming for the man
who looks like me!
1002
00:45:04,100 --> 00:45:05,580
- No one's coming for us.
Exactly.
1003
00:45:05,620 --> 00:45:06,790
- 'Cause I'm not even in it!
1004
00:45:09,190 --> 00:45:10,360
It's the Reagan era
1005
00:45:10,410 --> 00:45:13,540
and black people
become the face
1006
00:45:13,580 --> 00:45:16,200
of what is bringing
this country down.
1007
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:18,240
The nation is led to believe
1008
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,420
that their good,
hard tax dollars
1009
00:45:21,460 --> 00:45:24,420
are being put
into these young women
1010
00:45:24,460 --> 00:45:28,080
who are having babies
and collecting welfare checks
1011
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,170
and it's a propaganda message
1012
00:45:30,210 --> 00:45:33,520
that really encourages
the nation
1013
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,260
to turn its back
on social programs.
1014
00:45:36,300 --> 00:45:41,660
Black people become monstrous
in a real way in the political.
1015
00:45:41,700 --> 00:45:43,660
Horton fled,
kidnapped a young couple,
1016
00:45:43,700 --> 00:45:47,180
stabbing the man and repeatedly
raping his girlfriend.
1017
00:45:47,230 --> 00:45:49,710
- On the big screen then,
1018
00:45:49,750 --> 00:45:54,930
what is encouraged
is that white, fleety urban.
1019
00:45:54,970 --> 00:45:58,800
"A Nightmare on Elm Street",
"Amityville Horror",
1020
00:45:58,850 --> 00:46:01,500
"Halloween",
all have pushed us out
1021
00:46:01,540 --> 00:46:04,200
into the suburban,
away from the urban,
1022
00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:06,380
and so we have to imagine
new monsters.
1023
00:46:06,420 --> 00:46:07,720
-
1024
00:46:07,770 --> 00:46:09,860
- Take a movie like
"Poltergeist",
1025
00:46:09,900 --> 00:46:12,990
"Our homes are built
on Indian burial grounds
1026
00:46:13,030 --> 00:46:17,520
and somehow it's radiating up
and affecting us in awful ways
1027
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:19,780
not because
we're inherently evil
1028
00:46:19,820 --> 00:46:22,300
but because
black and brown people
1029
00:46:22,350 --> 00:46:24,790
were still the source of evil."
1030
00:46:24,830 --> 00:46:26,660
- One horror film
with a lot of black faces in it
1031
00:46:26,700 --> 00:46:28,830
that stands out
from the 1980s is
1032
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:32,140
"The Serpent and the Rainbow",
directed by Wes Craven,
1033
00:46:32,180 --> 00:46:35,540
and Wes Craven, I would say,
was one of those filmmakers
1034
00:46:35,580 --> 00:46:38,230
who really did try to be
inclusive in his films.
1035
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:39,580
He also did "Vampire Brooklyn"
1036
00:46:39,630 --> 00:46:42,460
and he did
"The People Under the Stairs".
1037
00:46:42,500 --> 00:46:44,330
"The People Under the Stairs"
1038
00:46:44,370 --> 00:46:46,890
you had a young black kid
1039
00:46:46,940 --> 00:46:50,550
leading a major film
for Universal.
1040
00:46:50,590 --> 00:46:52,200
It was ahead of its time.
1041
00:46:52,250 --> 00:46:55,820
- I remember seeing it
on the VHS and I'm being like,
1042
00:46:55,860 --> 00:46:59,910
"This movie has a black
child actor as the lead?
1043
00:46:59,950 --> 00:47:01,430
What's going on here?"
1044
00:47:01,470 --> 00:47:03,560
- I don't wanna kill you
1045
00:47:03,610 --> 00:47:06,650
but I will 'cause
I don't like you much, anyway.
1046
00:47:06,700 --> 00:47:09,740
- One of the things
that movie really captures is,
1047
00:47:11,140 --> 00:47:13,490
you know, black fear
of white spaces, you know,
1048
00:47:13,530 --> 00:47:15,180
this thing we're talking about.
1049
00:47:15,230 --> 00:47:18,580
And this particular white space,
you know, this is stereotypical
1050
00:47:18,620 --> 00:47:22,280
but like, you know, this idea
of like sadomasochism
1051
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:25,670
and leather
like psychosexual shit,
1052
00:47:25,720 --> 00:47:28,590
like this torturing stuff.
1053
00:47:28,630 --> 00:47:31,590
It all seemed
very white, you know?
1054
00:47:31,630 --> 00:47:33,810
- There's no community here.
1055
00:47:35,330 --> 00:47:38,690
All I see you
are a couple of n...
1056
00:47:38,730 --> 00:47:40,990
ass bitch.
You can.
1057
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:44,520
- What are you gonna do?
1058
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:45,560
Shoot us all?
1059
00:47:45,610 --> 00:47:47,870
- They had Roach in there,
1060
00:47:47,910 --> 00:47:52,000
in the walls, as a victim,
and that, I think,
1061
00:47:52,050 --> 00:47:54,440
was the most powerful
1062
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,400
and terrifying part
about that movie.
1063
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,050
You look at "Get Out",
1064
00:48:00,100 --> 00:48:03,620
it's clear that my deepest,
deepest fears
1065
00:48:03,670 --> 00:48:05,630
come to this idea
of confinement.
1066
00:48:05,670 --> 00:48:08,500
- And then we get
this beautiful renaissance
1067
00:48:08,540 --> 00:48:09,850
called the '90s.
1068
00:48:09,890 --> 00:48:13,110
- I actually am not afraid
to say Candyman.
1069
00:48:13,150 --> 00:48:16,240
- Candyman.
1070
00:48:16,290 --> 00:48:17,590
- Candyman!
1071
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,470
-
No, no.
1072
00:48:20,510 --> 00:48:22,690
- I'm a really hard person
to scare
1073
00:48:22,730 --> 00:48:24,910
and "Candyman" was like
1074
00:48:24,950 --> 00:48:28,130
one of the first things
in a while that got me.
1075
00:48:28,170 --> 00:48:29,480
- That really got to you?
1076
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:32,300
- Yeah, I mean,
that shot with the open mouth
1077
00:48:32,350 --> 00:48:35,660
inside the vacated apartment.
1078
00:48:35,700 --> 00:48:37,700
- I guess we kinda knew
that we had something
1079
00:48:37,740 --> 00:48:39,790
but we didn't know what.
1080
00:48:39,830 --> 00:48:41,570
We had Tony Richmond,
was our DP,
1081
00:48:41,620 --> 00:48:43,400
who did
"The Man Who Fell to Earth",
1082
00:48:43,450 --> 00:48:44,840
we had Philip Glass
1083
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,540
whose incredible score
kicked off the film,
1084
00:48:47,580 --> 00:48:51,630
we had the beautiful city
of Chicago as our backdrop,
1085
00:48:51,670 --> 00:48:54,850
and we had a interracial
conflict.
1086
00:48:55,890 --> 00:48:59,940
Tony Todd
is such a powerful actor
1087
00:48:59,980 --> 00:49:02,940
and brings such gravitas
to that role.
1088
00:49:02,990 --> 00:49:05,290
- Be my victim.
1089
00:49:05,340 --> 00:49:06,820
- Candyman is Tony Todd,
1090
00:49:06,860 --> 00:49:09,520
and Tony Todd is Candyman,
for a lot of us.
1091
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:11,210
- Out of the blue, I get
a call from my manager
1092
00:49:11,260 --> 00:49:14,480
at the time, saying
there's a script on their table,
1093
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:18,000
it's called "Candyman"
and I kinda...
1094
00:49:18,050 --> 00:49:22,270
in my cockiness, I hung up
the phone because I said,
1095
00:49:22,310 --> 00:49:23,530
"What are we talking about?
1096
00:49:23,570 --> 00:49:26,530
Is this Sami Davis, Jr.'s story
we doin'?
1097
00:49:26,580 --> 00:49:27,710
I'm way too tall."
1098
00:49:29,270 --> 00:49:31,230
- Do I know you?
1099
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:34,410
- No, but you doubted me.
1100
00:49:34,450 --> 00:49:36,500
- Tony's got a great
screen presence.
1101
00:49:36,540 --> 00:49:38,330
- He does.
- Candyman" was, you know,
1102
00:49:38,370 --> 00:49:39,940
it was obviously unique
1103
00:49:39,980 --> 00:49:42,850
because that was the first
black supernatural killer.
1104
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:47,680
I loved Clive Barker,
and Candyman being
1105
00:49:47,730 --> 00:49:51,030
sort of like the patron saint
of urban legends.
1106
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:56,390
You know, I thought that was
just such a beautiful invention,
1107
00:49:56,430 --> 00:49:57,820
such a beautiful monster.
1108
00:49:57,870 --> 00:49:59,220
- Candyman
is not a bogeyman.
1109
00:49:59,260 --> 00:50:03,310
He was an artist who was
happily doing his thing.
1110
00:50:03,350 --> 00:50:06,570
He happened to fall in love with
a woman that wasn't his race
1111
00:50:06,620 --> 00:50:08,100
and he was lynched
because of it,
1112
00:50:08,140 --> 00:50:11,580
and not only that,
they cut off his art hand.
1113
00:50:11,620 --> 00:50:14,880
Bernard Rose
directed "Candyman"
1114
00:50:14,930 --> 00:50:18,850
based on a short story
set in the UK by Clive Barker.
1115
00:50:18,890 --> 00:50:20,930
They changed the original story
1116
00:50:20,980 --> 00:50:23,980
from sort of
a class conversation
1117
00:50:24,020 --> 00:50:27,900
to one that is rooted
in American racial history.
1118
00:50:27,940 --> 00:50:30,070
- It dealt with
the social things.
1119
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,860
You have this white woman,
you got this black guy,
1120
00:50:32,900 --> 00:50:34,950
you got this backstory
about this black guy
1121
00:50:34,990 --> 00:50:38,600
and this white woman
and kind of, you know,
1122
00:50:38,650 --> 00:50:42,780
how he is attacked
because of this relationship.
1123
00:50:42,830 --> 00:50:44,960
- It was a very terrifying film,
1124
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:48,310
a film that I loved
but a film that, you know,
1125
00:50:48,350 --> 00:50:50,010
is kind of problematic.
1126
00:50:50,050 --> 00:50:53,010
We shall die together
in front of their very eyes.
1127
00:50:53,050 --> 00:50:54,710
Here again,
we have a movie
1128
00:50:54,750 --> 00:50:57,710
that echoes what happened
in "King Kong" in the '30s.
1129
00:50:57,750 --> 00:50:59,670
There is this black bogeyman
1130
00:50:59,710 --> 00:51:03,190
and he's in pursuit
of this blonde white woman.
1131
00:51:03,240 --> 00:51:04,800
- He becomes obsessed,
1132
00:51:04,850 --> 00:51:07,680
recirculating the same tropes.
1133
00:51:07,720 --> 00:51:09,590
- I don't think that character
1134
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:11,990
would go after
poor black people.
1135
00:51:12,030 --> 00:51:13,470
- Right.
- This is where you can tell
1136
00:51:13,510 --> 00:51:16,250
that "Candyman" came
from the mind of a white person.
1137
00:51:16,290 --> 00:51:18,210
He chooses to haunt,
1138
00:51:18,250 --> 00:51:21,820
to disrupt the lives
of blacks in Chicago
1139
00:51:21,860 --> 00:51:24,080
in the Cabrini-Green Projects.
1140
00:51:24,130 --> 00:51:26,090
When really,
right across the tracks,
1141
00:51:26,130 --> 00:51:28,350
are essentially
the representatives,
1142
00:51:28,390 --> 00:51:31,660
the sort of, the folks
who would have been responsible,
1143
00:51:31,700 --> 00:51:33,880
their ancestors,
for his lynching.
1144
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,180
- He is a personification
of racism in the United States,
1145
00:51:36,230 --> 00:51:38,360
like what it looks like
and what it can conjure,
1146
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:39,670
like all that negative energy,
1147
00:51:39,710 --> 00:51:41,450
like what does it look like,
and what does it do?
1148
00:51:41,490 --> 00:51:42,840
- Keep away from me!
1149
00:51:42,890 --> 00:51:44,190
For me, it's a character.
1150
00:51:44,230 --> 00:51:46,670
I don't live and breathe
and die by it.
1151
00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:49,370
I'm happy
that I was able to do him
1152
00:51:49,410 --> 00:51:52,370
and hopefully I did him right.
1153
00:51:52,420 --> 00:51:54,900
- It was very empowering to me
1154
00:51:54,940 --> 00:51:58,550
to feel like we could... like
black people can do anything.
1155
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:00,080
We're not in this box.
1156
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,690
We can be the Freddie
of a movie.
1157
00:52:02,730 --> 00:52:05,080
- No!
1158
00:52:05,130 --> 00:52:07,300
- I remember
Vondie Curtis-Hall
1159
00:52:07,340 --> 00:52:12,000
who was married to Kasi Lemmons
who was in the film.
1160
00:52:12,050 --> 00:52:14,960
In the original screening,
he shook his head, he says,
1161
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:19,570
"Man, you realize,"
and I said, "What?"
1162
00:52:19,620 --> 00:52:22,230
"You gonna be Candyman forever."
1163
00:52:22,270 --> 00:52:24,710
Candyman,
Day of the Dead.
1164
00:52:24,750 --> 00:52:26,360
- Unfortunately,
I think the sequels
1165
00:52:26,410 --> 00:52:27,710
kind of get overlooked.
1166
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,280
It gives Candyman
a sympathetic backstory.
1167
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:34,020
He is the spirit that's conjured
from the history of racism
1168
00:52:34,070 --> 00:52:36,810
and white supremacy
in the United States.
1169
00:52:36,850 --> 00:52:39,680
-
1170
00:52:41,990 --> 00:52:43,030
- I feel like the sequel
1171
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:44,510
helps you understand
the original
1172
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:46,250
a little bit better maybe.
1173
00:52:50,780 --> 00:52:52,040
The '90s were a renaissance
1174
00:52:52,090 --> 00:52:54,440
not just in film,
I want to point out,
1175
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:55,920
but also in literature.
1176
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,830
This is the era that Spike Lee
helped give birth to.
1177
00:52:58,870 --> 00:53:02,490
Spike Lee was like
the Terry McMillan in film
1178
00:53:02,530 --> 00:53:05,140
as what Terry McMillan
was doing in publishing.
1179
00:53:05,190 --> 00:53:07,490
You know, black people
are going to see movies.
1180
00:53:07,540 --> 00:53:09,800
There was
a push for black filmmaking
1181
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:11,970
started by like Spike Like
and John Singleton
1182
00:53:12,020 --> 00:53:13,500
and people like that,
1183
00:53:13,540 --> 00:53:18,370
and I think it was kind of
a response to the '80s
1184
00:53:18,420 --> 00:53:21,980
where black people were
kind of marginalized.
1185
00:53:22,030 --> 00:53:23,510
- In the early 1990s,
1186
00:53:23,550 --> 00:53:25,600
you kind of saw like
a lot of black filmmakers
1187
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,210
kind of come into the fold
and not just make comedies
1188
00:53:28,250 --> 00:53:30,600
and dramatic films
but also horror films,
1189
00:53:30,650 --> 00:53:31,650
and I think
what they were doing
1190
00:53:31,690 --> 00:53:32,870
with the horror films
at the time,
1191
00:53:32,910 --> 00:53:34,740
they were making movies
that were kind of
1192
00:53:34,780 --> 00:53:37,170
socially conscious
and more directly in tune
1193
00:53:37,220 --> 00:53:39,390
with what was going on
in the outside world.
1194
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:41,440
- What you saw today,
young brother,
1195
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,050
were victims of economics,
1196
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:48,840
environment Reganomics.
1197
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:50,360
Joel as the main character,
1198
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,490
this up-and-coming
and soon to be minister.
1199
00:53:52,540 --> 00:53:55,500
He goes and visits his cousin
that lives in New York City.
1200
00:53:55,540 --> 00:53:58,190
It really centers around
Joel and his crisis of faith.
1201
00:53:58,240 --> 00:54:00,760
"Do I stick with
kind of like my Bible
1202
00:54:00,810 --> 00:54:02,370
and Christian fundamentalism,
1203
00:54:02,420 --> 00:54:05,250
or do I kind of stray a little
and have a little fun?"
1204
00:54:05,290 --> 00:54:09,080
- No, I wouldn't.
Fornication is a sin.
1205
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:10,550
- It gets even more
extreme than that
1206
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:11,770
because his, literally,
1207
00:54:11,820 --> 00:54:14,300
his soul is at stake
with a demon who is like
1208
00:54:14,340 --> 00:54:16,650
looking to immediately
kind of eradicate him.
1209
00:54:16,690 --> 00:54:18,040
-
1210
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:20,260
- It is super biblical,
now that I think about it,
1211
00:54:20,300 --> 00:54:22,570
'cause she's basically
the parallel of the devil.
1212
00:54:22,610 --> 00:54:23,790
- No!
1213
00:54:23,830 --> 00:54:25,350
- "Def by Temptation"
1214
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,700
is all about that battle
between good and evil.
1215
00:54:28,750 --> 00:54:31,180
So,
this is also a morality tale.
1216
00:54:31,230 --> 00:54:34,060
These are the lessons
that mirror so closely
1217
00:54:34,100 --> 00:54:37,100
to what Michaeux
and Spencer Williams
1218
00:54:37,150 --> 00:54:40,240
were offering up
in earlier decades.
1219
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:41,410
I love that connection
1220
00:54:41,460 --> 00:54:42,630
that "Def by Temptation"
1221
00:54:42,670 --> 00:54:44,720
has with those older films
from the 1940s.
1222
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:47,070
It was unique for the time
because you weren't seeing
1223
00:54:47,110 --> 00:54:50,200
a lot of black horror films
made in 1990, if any.
1224
00:54:50,250 --> 00:54:51,810
That's what makes it
a real landmark.
1225
00:54:57,910 --> 00:54:59,300
I feel like
"Tales from the Hood"
1226
00:54:59,340 --> 00:55:02,910
did more to kind of cement
black horror for the '90s.
1227
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:07,180
- Welcome to hell!
1228
00:55:08,570 --> 00:55:10,530
- "Tales from the Hood"
was groundbreaking.
1229
00:55:10,570 --> 00:55:12,920
- Oh, the shit!
1230
00:55:12,970 --> 00:55:13,880
"Tales from the Hood"
1231
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:15,320
was this anthology horror film.
1232
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,840
There's four short stories
with one wraparound story.
1233
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:21,100
- My dad used to drag me
to march after march
1234
00:55:21,150 --> 00:55:23,540
if it had black, colored,
or Negro in the title,
1235
00:55:23,580 --> 00:55:24,930
he was a member.
1236
00:55:24,980 --> 00:55:29,720
So, when I, you know,
started to look at horror
1237
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,770
as something to do myself,
I'm like,
1238
00:55:32,810 --> 00:55:37,160
Well, I gotta have
something in there to...
1239
00:55:37,210 --> 00:55:38,950
we gotta do,
we gotta mix it up.
1240
00:55:38,990 --> 00:55:40,910
Not just have horror
for horror's sake.
1241
00:55:40,950 --> 00:55:42,340
It deals with spousal abuse
1242
00:55:42,390 --> 00:55:44,650
and then child abuse
in the home.
1243
00:55:44,690 --> 00:55:45,950
It deals with gang violence.
1244
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,130
It deals with
racist politicians.
1245
00:55:48,170 --> 00:55:51,660
- Can't we all
just get along?
1246
00:55:51,700 --> 00:55:53,270
It deals with police brutality.
1247
00:55:53,310 --> 00:55:55,920
So, all of these things
kind of intertwine
1248
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,140
and create this kind of
supernatural tale
1249
00:55:58,180 --> 00:56:00,970
about revenge and retribution.
1250
00:56:01,010 --> 00:56:03,450
-
1251
00:56:03,490 --> 00:56:06,110
It deals with
a lot of different things.
1252
00:56:06,150 --> 00:56:09,500
The anthology format is actually
really good in terms of
1253
00:56:09,540 --> 00:56:11,200
you can address a lot of
different issues
1254
00:56:11,240 --> 00:56:12,890
with short stories.
1255
00:56:12,940 --> 00:56:15,200
- You have
a racist politician.
1256
00:56:15,240 --> 00:56:17,160
An original American.
1257
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:18,730
Isn't it about time?
1258
00:56:19,990 --> 00:56:22,820
- That's great.
I'd even vote for me!
1259
00:56:22,860 --> 00:56:24,380
- Is it really that
farfetched
1260
00:56:24,430 --> 00:56:27,040
that someone would have that
as a campaign slogan today?
1261
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:28,130
- I always tell my kids,
1262
00:56:28,170 --> 00:56:29,740
I'm like, you know,
people in grave...
1263
00:56:29,780 --> 00:56:33,790
the dead people and the spirits
are not gonna mess with you.
1264
00:56:33,830 --> 00:56:35,700
It's livin'...
1265
00:56:35,740 --> 00:56:37,140
- It's living people
you gotta worry about, yeah.
1266
00:56:37,180 --> 00:56:38,010
- Yes, that's what
we gotta worry about.
1267
00:56:46,890 --> 00:56:50,850
That's how we kinda twisted
when we started to do "Tales",
1268
00:56:50,890 --> 00:56:54,680
we gotta turn the tables
and make the horror redemptive.
1269
00:56:54,720 --> 00:56:56,630
- No!
1270
00:57:02,250 --> 00:57:03,900
- This movie is kind of like
1271
00:57:03,950 --> 00:57:06,600
helping us see justice happening
when we're not seeing it happen
1272
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,730
outside of a movie screen
or a movie theatre.
1273
00:57:09,780 --> 00:57:12,170
There's cops being acquitted
and there's LA riots
1274
00:57:12,210 --> 00:57:13,740
and it just seems like
things are so hopeless
1275
00:57:13,780 --> 00:57:17,050
but then you kind of like
exercise retribution
1276
00:57:17,090 --> 00:57:19,610
in a horror film for,
you know, for justice,
1277
00:57:19,660 --> 00:57:21,790
for racial justice,
and I think that's super dope.
1278
00:57:21,830 --> 00:57:27,580
- You tackled, you know,
subjects that are horrific.
1279
00:57:27,620 --> 00:57:28,750
- Right. Right.
1280
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:29,750
- We're running around
1281
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:32,410
looking for
ghosts and vampires
1282
00:57:32,450 --> 00:57:35,190
when the vampire is,
you're married to him.
1283
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:36,280
- You're married to him.
Exactly.
1284
00:57:36,330 --> 00:57:39,200
- You know,
he's sucking you dry,
1285
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:41,070
you know, and beating you,
1286
00:57:41,110 --> 00:57:45,250
and also hurting
and destroying your child.
1287
00:57:45,290 --> 00:57:50,950
That, and I was so young,
I learned a lot on that set.
1288
00:57:50,990 --> 00:57:53,080
-
1289
00:57:54,470 --> 00:57:56,780
- I always liked
David Alan Grier as a comedian--
1290
00:57:56,820 --> 00:57:58,170
- Yeah.
1291
00:57:58,220 --> 00:58:01,700
- --but realizing
what he could do as an actor.
1292
00:58:01,740 --> 00:58:03,530
That really, that really...
1293
00:58:03,570 --> 00:58:05,660
and then I found out
that he was Shakespearian...
1294
00:58:05,700 --> 00:58:07,620
- Shakespearian trained.
- Shakespearian trained.
1295
00:58:07,660 --> 00:58:10,710
- Yeah, I, you know,
I used to do standup,
1296
00:58:10,750 --> 00:58:12,930
so I kinda knew David
from the comedic thing
1297
00:58:12,970 --> 00:58:16,500
but I also knew that he had
this Shakespearian background,
1298
00:58:16,540 --> 00:58:22,020
and when I was thinking of
who to play that part,
1299
00:58:22,070 --> 00:58:24,940
I purposefully wanted someone
1300
00:58:24,980 --> 00:58:28,550
that everyone looked at
as a nice guy.
1301
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:30,810
There was an interesting thing
that happened
1302
00:58:30,860 --> 00:58:32,950
when we screened that episode.
1303
00:58:32,990 --> 00:58:35,690
- I'm gonna teach you
and that boy some respect.
1304
00:58:35,730 --> 00:58:37,300
When David Allen Grier
1305
00:58:37,340 --> 00:58:40,650
was first hitting Paula,
these kids were laughing.
1306
00:58:40,690 --> 00:58:43,650
- Wow.
- And you know what happens,
1307
00:58:43,700 --> 00:58:45,660
particularly I think
as a black teenager,
1308
00:58:45,700 --> 00:58:47,310
as someone that
goes through the world,
1309
00:58:47,350 --> 00:58:49,440
you're always on the lookout
1310
00:58:49,490 --> 00:58:51,660
for how something
is gonna mess with you.
1311
00:58:51,710 --> 00:58:55,970
You're not trying to
show your vulnerability.
1312
00:58:56,010 --> 00:58:57,150
- Right.
1313
00:58:57,190 --> 00:58:58,800
- And the easiest way
to do that is to
1314
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:00,240
- Laugh it off. Yeah.
- laugh at something.
1315
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:01,670
And laugh at something.
1316
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:03,020
-
1317
00:59:03,060 --> 00:59:04,500
- As the beating went on,
1318
00:59:04,540 --> 00:59:07,290
it got quieter and quieter
and quieter
1319
00:59:07,330 --> 00:59:09,980
until it felt like
they were about to cry.
1320
00:59:10,030 --> 00:59:12,030
- When I rewatch this film,
1321
00:59:12,070 --> 00:59:15,160
it really stands
head and shoulders above
1322
00:59:15,210 --> 00:59:17,510
a lot of black horror
up to that point
1323
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:21,560
because in those four segments,
what Rusty Cundieff is doing
1324
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:24,520
is using that metaphor
to tell stories
1325
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:26,870
that were about
real-life problems
1326
00:59:26,910 --> 00:59:28,310
facing the black communities.
1327
00:59:28,350 --> 00:59:29,610
- It kind of became more kind of
1328
00:59:29,660 --> 00:59:32,180
a genre classic or something
that, you know,
1329
00:59:32,220 --> 00:59:34,050
the black community kind of
like talked about
1330
00:59:34,100 --> 00:59:36,180
and it was kind of
a word of mouth thing
1331
00:59:36,230 --> 00:59:38,750
but maybe it is because of
"Get Out" that it got
1332
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,360
this kind of resurgence
and then got a sequel.
1333
00:59:41,410 --> 00:59:44,150
- This shit
ain't over yet, bitch!
1334
00:59:44,190 --> 00:59:46,760
- "Tales from the Hood 2",
1335
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:48,370
you know, Darren and I
have been trying
1336
00:59:48,410 --> 00:59:50,420
to get this thing made forever.
1337
00:59:50,460 --> 00:59:53,900
- I think it's gonna be
quite amazing!
1338
00:59:53,940 --> 00:59:55,860
We're back to telling
1339
00:59:55,900 --> 00:59:57,380
...back to telling stories
1340
00:59:57,420 --> 01:00:01,040
that hopefully deal with
some issues that people have.
1341
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:02,210
This one I think is,
1342
01:00:02,250 --> 01:00:04,650
there's some stuff
that's a little headier.
1343
01:00:04,690 --> 01:00:07,300
It's a different
kind of "Tales" story,
1344
01:00:07,350 --> 01:00:09,780
touches people
in a different way,
1345
01:00:09,830 --> 01:00:11,050
though it is scary.
1346
01:00:11,090 --> 01:00:14,350
-
1347
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:22,710
- You start to see more women
on screen in the 1990s.
1348
01:00:22,750 --> 01:00:24,450
"Eve's Bayou", Kasi Lemmons,
1349
01:00:24,490 --> 01:00:26,100
which is one of my favorite.
1350
01:00:26,150 --> 01:00:27,450
Some people
don't consider it horror
1351
01:00:27,500 --> 01:00:30,590
but I do because it's just,
1352
01:00:30,630 --> 01:00:34,200
really, it's one of those great
interchanges of human horror
1353
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:37,070
and hints of the supernatural.
1354
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:38,640
During the time,
1355
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:40,420
it was still super rare to see
black women be directors,
1356
01:00:40,470 --> 01:00:42,470
so Kasi Lemmons
really pushing to direct
1357
01:00:42,510 --> 01:00:45,950
was really groundbreaking
and really important.
1358
01:00:45,990 --> 01:00:48,740
It has that
beautiful cinematography.
1359
01:00:48,780 --> 01:00:50,260
The whole thing
is like a poem, really,
1360
01:00:50,300 --> 01:00:51,560
it's just so beautiful.
1361
01:00:51,610 --> 01:00:54,920
The script by Kasi Lemmons
is just fantastic.
1362
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:57,480
I've taught it in my black
horror class at UCLA
1363
01:00:57,530 --> 01:00:58,750
and when I teach it,
1364
01:00:58,790 --> 01:01:01,270
I like to tweet out lines
from the script.
1365
01:01:01,310 --> 01:01:02,920
It's just so beautifully
written.
1366
01:01:02,970 --> 01:01:06,670
- That opening scene
and the first thing you hear...
1367
01:01:06,710 --> 01:01:08,150
The summer
I killed my father,
1368
01:01:08,190 --> 01:01:09,630
I was ten years old.
1369
01:01:09,670 --> 01:01:11,240
...it's just brilliant,
1370
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:14,370
and it was a different
kind of scary movie.
1371
01:01:14,410 --> 01:01:16,110
- Bad girl.
1372
01:01:16,150 --> 01:01:18,330
It's a movie
about what memory means
1373
01:01:18,370 --> 01:01:19,720
in the eyes of
a black young girl
1374
01:01:19,770 --> 01:01:23,900
and how she tries to help
keep her family together
1375
01:01:23,940 --> 01:01:28,300
and also kind of heal any wounds
that are kind of lingering
1376
01:01:28,340 --> 01:01:31,130
within, her father's,
you know, infidelity,
1377
01:01:31,170 --> 01:01:34,130
and also maybe that kind of
like touchy subject of,
1378
01:01:34,170 --> 01:01:36,700
"Is he being inappropriate
with one of his daughters?"
1379
01:01:37,650 --> 01:01:39,220
- That Debbi Morgan character,
1380
01:01:39,260 --> 01:01:43,530
you feel so...
so much strength from her.
1381
01:01:45,750 --> 01:01:49,450
But you feel so much pain
because of what she's lost.
1382
01:01:49,490 --> 01:01:51,800
- Sometimes I feel like
I've lost so much,
1383
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:55,060
I have to find new things
to lose.
1384
01:01:55,110 --> 01:01:57,930
Magic steps in
to sort of take the place
1385
01:01:57,980 --> 01:01:59,550
of those harder questions
1386
01:01:59,590 --> 01:02:01,760
about what's really
happening in that house.
1387
01:02:01,810 --> 01:02:03,290
I think
what Kasi Lemmons does
1388
01:02:03,330 --> 01:02:04,900
and what she
kind of inspired
1389
01:02:04,940 --> 01:02:07,680
for a lot of the black women
horror filmmakers that I talk to
1390
01:02:07,730 --> 01:02:11,950
is we do have a story to tell
and don't be afraid
1391
01:02:11,990 --> 01:02:15,390
to kind of like, you know,
"Oh, because a studio exec
1392
01:02:15,430 --> 01:02:18,350
or higher ups may not like
seeing an all-black cast
1393
01:02:18,390 --> 01:02:21,090
or a film centered around
black women,
1394
01:02:21,130 --> 01:02:22,260
then I can't do this."
1395
01:02:22,310 --> 01:02:23,740
And I think what
Kasi Lemmons' film did,
1396
01:02:23,790 --> 01:02:25,350
she says,
"No, we can do this,"
1397
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:27,570
and to not be afraid
of any pushback,
1398
01:02:27,620 --> 01:02:29,920
to keep pushing
for your story, your voice,
1399
01:02:29,970 --> 01:02:31,530
which she did for a generation
is tell them
1400
01:02:31,580 --> 01:02:33,580
that their voice
really does matter.
1401
01:02:36,410 --> 01:02:37,500
- Horrible, isn't it?
1402
01:02:39,450 --> 01:02:40,930
- There's Billy
and there's Jada.
1403
01:02:40,980 --> 01:02:41,980
- Billy and Jada.
1404
01:02:42,020 --> 01:02:42,940
- Do we have a deal?
1405
01:02:44,460 --> 01:02:45,900
She did surprise me, though.
1406
01:02:45,940 --> 01:02:48,070
She called me up,
"Ernest, I colored my hair."
1407
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:49,940
"What?"
1408
01:02:49,990 --> 01:02:52,950
"I hope it doesn't
mess you up too much.
1409
01:02:52,990 --> 01:02:55,430
I made it
kind of like platinum."
1410
01:02:55,470 --> 01:02:58,170
I said, "Oh, Jada, Jada."
1411
01:02:59,390 --> 01:03:00,480
-
1412
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:01,610
In 1995,
1413
01:03:01,650 --> 01:03:03,170
something really
groundbreaking happens
1414
01:03:03,220 --> 01:03:06,090
because we kind of see this
like first like contemporary
1415
01:03:06,130 --> 01:03:08,790
black final girl,
and it's Jada Pinkette.
1416
01:03:08,830 --> 01:03:11,270
The final girl is this term
coined by Carol Clover.
1417
01:03:11,310 --> 01:03:13,490
She wrote this book called
"Men, Women, and Chainsaws,
1418
01:03:13,530 --> 01:03:15,190
Gender in The Modern
Horror Film"
1419
01:03:15,230 --> 01:03:18,010
and the final girl is basically
the last girl standing
1420
01:03:18,060 --> 01:03:22,580
and the common theme was
that they were all white.
1421
01:03:22,630 --> 01:03:25,500
- I know
that the producers wanted
1422
01:03:25,540 --> 01:03:29,030
another actress,
a white actress, for that role
1423
01:03:29,070 --> 01:03:34,810
but I had just seen Jada
in "Menace to Society"...
1424
01:03:34,860 --> 01:03:36,690
And I just said,
"Oh, she's my Jeryline,"
1425
01:03:36,730 --> 01:03:41,730
so I had to campaign hard
to get her in there.
1426
01:03:41,780 --> 01:03:43,210
I said, you know,
it's the perfect setup
1427
01:03:43,260 --> 01:03:47,130
because everybody's gonna think,
"Oh, she's gonna die."
1428
01:03:47,170 --> 01:03:48,650
- Right.
1429
01:03:48,700 --> 01:03:49,700
- She's dead already,
you know? We know that.
1430
01:03:49,740 --> 01:03:53,180
And she winds up
being the sister
1431
01:03:53,220 --> 01:03:55,180
that winds up
saving the world.
1432
01:03:55,230 --> 01:03:58,320
-
1433
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:00,270
- That was just like,
"Oh, crap."
1434
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:02,710
You wouldn't have
seen that in '80s.
1435
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:04,540
Fearless women on screen
have been on the rise
1436
01:04:04,580 --> 01:04:08,370
ever since Kira in
"The Invitation",
1437
01:04:08,410 --> 01:04:10,890
Aaliyah in
"Queen of the Damned",
1438
01:04:10,940 --> 01:04:13,370
Sennia Nanua in
"The Girl with All the Gifts".
1439
01:04:13,420 --> 01:04:15,640
They're black women
and they're survivors.
1440
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:18,340
Seeing Saana Lathan
side by side with the predator
1441
01:04:18,380 --> 01:04:20,770
and just killing aliens
was just like,
1442
01:04:20,820 --> 01:04:23,340
"Wait a minute,
so her and this predator
1443
01:04:23,380 --> 01:04:25,170
are gonna start like..."
1444
01:04:25,210 --> 01:04:26,690
That was so cool
1445
01:04:26,740 --> 01:04:28,610
because I think she was like
the last person alive
1446
01:04:28,650 --> 01:04:32,520
and like he made her
kind of a tribeswoman,
1447
01:04:32,570 --> 01:04:34,270
like she was a part
of their crew now.
1448
01:04:36,570 --> 01:04:38,700
Right around the turn
of the 21st century,
1449
01:04:38,750 --> 01:04:41,230
hip hop-inspired horror films
started to come out.
1450
01:04:41,270 --> 01:04:43,060
- Then it's just add Z.
1451
01:04:43,100 --> 01:04:46,630
So "Wolvez" with a Z,
1452
01:04:46,670 --> 01:04:51,060
"Vampz" with a Z,
"Bloodz VS Wolvez",
1453
01:04:51,110 --> 01:04:53,760
so there's just Zs
exploding all over the place
1454
01:04:53,810 --> 01:04:56,810
but the Zs are there to indicate
1455
01:04:56,850 --> 01:04:59,160
that it's kind of
a hip-hop kind of thing.
1456
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:02,820
You have rappers just
showing up in horror movies.
1457
01:05:02,860 --> 01:05:07,120
LL Cool J
is in "Halloween H20".
1458
01:05:07,170 --> 01:05:08,260
- Yeah?
1459
01:05:08,300 --> 01:05:09,390
What's going on, baby?
1460
01:05:09,430 --> 01:05:10,650
- I don't know.
1461
01:05:10,690 --> 01:05:12,430
- You had "Anaconda",
you know, Ice Cube.
1462
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:14,130
- Will Smith and Jazzy Jeff
1463
01:05:14,170 --> 01:05:17,570
and it's a send-up to the film
"Nightmare on Elm Street"
1464
01:05:17,610 --> 01:05:19,570
and the "Geto Boys"
who are from Houston
1465
01:05:19,610 --> 01:05:22,920
who have really significant
horror themes.
1466
01:05:22,970 --> 01:05:24,970
It's kind of a natural pairing.
1467
01:05:25,010 --> 01:05:27,410
They're fans,
they're rapping about it,
1468
01:05:27,450 --> 01:05:29,620
and eventually,
they end up on set.
1469
01:05:34,410 --> 01:05:36,460
One highlight
from the early 2000s was "Bones"
1470
01:05:36,500 --> 01:05:38,940
which was this kind of this
blacksploitation throwback.
1471
01:05:38,980 --> 01:05:40,420
It comments on what drugs did
1472
01:05:40,460 --> 01:05:42,420
to the black community
specifically.
1473
01:05:42,460 --> 01:05:44,770
We had Snoop Dogg
as this title character.
1474
01:05:44,810 --> 01:05:46,600
He's involved in gambling
1475
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:48,730
and stuff like that,
but he ain't somebody
1476
01:05:48,770 --> 01:05:52,730
who always tried to give back
to his community.
1477
01:05:52,780 --> 01:05:54,910
But for me, one of the most
interesting things
1478
01:05:54,950 --> 01:05:57,300
about doing "Bones"
was the love story.
1479
01:05:58,700 --> 01:06:00,610
-
1480
01:06:00,660 --> 01:06:03,140
- But just the idea, you know,
of reviving a love
1481
01:06:03,180 --> 01:06:06,840
that had been lost
and it's one of the things
1482
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:09,930
that the studio
really kind of downplayed.
1483
01:06:09,970 --> 01:06:13,360
- Really?
- Yeah, when they...yeah.
1484
01:06:13,410 --> 01:06:17,800
Yeah, I think they wanted kind
of like a cheap horror film,
1485
01:06:17,850 --> 01:06:22,590
you know, and I think we gave it
more than they anticipated.
1486
01:06:22,630 --> 01:06:23,850
But I gotta tell you this,
1487
01:06:25,810 --> 01:06:28,340
you haven't lived until
you've seen Snoop blush.
1488
01:06:29,380 --> 01:06:30,950
'Cause Snoop, Snoop,
1489
01:06:30,990 --> 01:06:33,430
first day,
Snoop had to kiss Pam Grier.
1490
01:06:33,470 --> 01:06:34,950
- For real?
1491
01:06:34,990 --> 01:06:36,080
And he kissed
her and they were into it,
1492
01:06:36,130 --> 01:06:37,650
they were into it,
they were into it,
1493
01:06:37,690 --> 01:06:40,000
I said, "Cut,"
and Snoop just...
1494
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:44,130
I said,
"You blushing, man?"
1495
01:06:44,180 --> 01:06:47,490
He said, "Hey, man, I grew up
dreaming about this woman.
1496
01:06:47,530 --> 01:06:48,830
Now I get to kiss her?"
1497
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:51,400
-
Yeah, that's a good day.
1498
01:06:52,750 --> 01:06:54,270
But then,
things started to change
1499
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:56,280
and more black characters
are starting to be centralized
1500
01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:58,410
or even if they were
secondary characters,
1501
01:06:58,450 --> 01:07:00,190
they were much more prominent,
1502
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:02,670
more seen, not just
as window dressing,
1503
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:04,720
but very integral
to the story.
1504
01:07:06,550 --> 01:07:07,940
"Attack the Block",
1505
01:07:07,980 --> 01:07:09,770
I loved this film, man.
This was the kind of movie
1506
01:07:09,810 --> 01:07:12,510
I would have loved
to have seen as a kid.
1507
01:07:12,550 --> 01:07:13,730
- Now that you mention,
1508
01:07:13,770 --> 01:07:15,380
I wanna make sure
I show it to my kids.
1509
01:07:15,430 --> 01:07:17,300
- But also growing up
in a housing project
1510
01:07:17,340 --> 01:07:21,040
and seeing a film that says,
"Yeah, we can be heroes, too."
1511
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:22,520
It's a story about
1512
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:24,650
working class youth in London
1513
01:07:24,700 --> 01:07:26,920
and literally,
there's an alien invasion
1514
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:29,090
that comes crashing down
on your neighborhood.
1515
01:07:33,100 --> 01:07:34,840
Moses,
played by John Boyega,
1516
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:36,530
basically saves
his neighborhood.
1517
01:07:36,580 --> 01:07:39,890
Every time I see this movie
at the end, it gives me chills.
1518
01:07:39,930 --> 01:07:42,100
Moses is in a cop car
with his friend Pest
1519
01:07:42,150 --> 01:07:44,850
and all he hears outside
is his name being chanted
1520
01:07:44,890 --> 01:07:46,810
over again.
"Moses, Moses!"
1521
01:07:46,850 --> 01:07:48,850
Moses! Moses!
1522
01:07:48,890 --> 01:07:49,900
- His friend looks at him,
1523
01:07:49,940 --> 01:07:50,900
he's like,
"Hey, that's for you."
1524
01:07:50,940 --> 01:07:52,160
That's for you, man.
1525
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:53,290
This is why John Boyega
1526
01:07:53,330 --> 01:07:54,730
is in "Star Wars", right?
1527
01:07:54,770 --> 01:07:55,940
That's why he's this big star
because he looks up
1528
01:07:55,990 --> 01:07:57,600
and he has this smile
on his face,
1529
01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:01,300
this innocent, pure,
child-like smile.
1530
01:08:01,340 --> 01:08:04,950
He gets to feel like he matters
in his neighborhood.
1531
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:07,000
A lot of young black kids
don't feel like they matter.
1532
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:09,830
I think that's really
the core of this film.
1533
01:08:10,830 --> 01:08:12,700
He gets to be the hero.
1534
01:08:12,740 --> 01:08:14,310
- I think something
really important
1535
01:08:14,350 --> 01:08:16,570
happens in the 2000s.
1536
01:08:16,620 --> 01:08:19,750
When you have these
more self-reflexive horror films
1537
01:08:19,790 --> 01:08:21,880
that are looking back
and saying,
1538
01:08:21,930 --> 01:08:24,970
"That was the stereotype,"
or, "That was the cliché,"
1539
01:08:25,020 --> 01:08:28,460
or, "That's the trope
we are always relying on."
1540
01:08:28,500 --> 01:08:32,680
So, in exposing
those kinds of well-worn,
1541
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:37,160
kind of well-trodden
knowns about horror,
1542
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:39,250
horror also had to catch up
and mature
1543
01:08:39,290 --> 01:08:41,990
if it was going to
continue to thrive.
1544
01:08:42,030 --> 01:08:43,560
It's all over.
1545
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:46,950
It's not over.
It's just not yours anymore.
1546
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:47,910
Now you gotta see this film,
1547
01:08:47,950 --> 01:08:49,300
"The Girl with All the Gifts".
1548
01:08:49,350 --> 01:08:51,830
- I mean, I watched this
'cause you recommend it.
1549
01:08:51,870 --> 01:08:55,440
- Really well-done
British horror film
1550
01:08:55,480 --> 01:08:59,140
with this young black girl
as the main character.
1551
01:08:59,180 --> 01:09:01,140
It's after a disease
that's hit humanity
1552
01:09:01,180 --> 01:09:05,540
where it's turned into everybody
into like these feral animals.
1553
01:09:05,580 --> 01:09:07,020
-
1554
01:09:07,060 --> 01:09:08,410
- It's a zombie movie.
1555
01:09:08,450 --> 01:09:10,150
Sort of. It's terrifying.
1556
01:09:10,190 --> 01:09:13,020
It's an apocalyptic future
where we're no longer us
1557
01:09:13,070 --> 01:09:16,680
but again it's probably
white people's fear, right?
1558
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:20,510
That they're losing dominion,
you know,
1559
01:09:20,550 --> 01:09:24,210
that the manifest destiny thing
isn't quite working
1560
01:09:24,250 --> 01:09:25,250
like it used to.
1561
01:09:27,650 --> 01:09:30,000
That character
was not written as black.
1562
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:31,910
That happened during
the casting process.
1563
01:09:31,950 --> 01:09:33,690
It's a very similar process
as to what happened
1564
01:09:33,740 --> 01:09:35,130
in "Night of the Living Dead".
1565
01:09:35,170 --> 01:09:38,390
She just killed the audition,
so she got the part,
1566
01:09:38,440 --> 01:09:41,090
and it creates such a difference
in the film
1567
01:09:41,140 --> 01:09:43,400
to have this black child.
1568
01:09:43,440 --> 01:09:45,620
- I read the book
before I saw the movie,
1569
01:09:45,660 --> 01:09:47,100
so when I saw the movie
1570
01:09:47,140 --> 01:09:49,140
and they had cast
a little black girl,
1571
01:09:49,190 --> 01:09:51,630
I was like, "Oh, my God,
this is amazing!"
1572
01:09:51,670 --> 01:09:53,580
- We're alive?
1573
01:09:53,630 --> 01:09:54,540
- Yes.
1574
01:09:56,280 --> 01:09:58,890
- Then why should it be us
who die for you?
1575
01:09:58,940 --> 01:09:59,810
I talked to Mike Carey,
1576
01:09:59,850 --> 01:10:01,770
the writer/screenwriter.
1577
01:10:01,810 --> 01:10:03,900
This is a sharper
social commentary
1578
01:10:03,940 --> 01:10:06,160
even maybe than
that he had intended.
1579
01:10:06,210 --> 01:10:08,290
You see a story about
a character, a black girl
1580
01:10:08,340 --> 01:10:11,080
who faces
some insurmountable odds
1581
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:14,260
where it seems impossible
but you come up with plans
1582
01:10:14,300 --> 01:10:16,170
and you execute your plans.
1583
01:10:16,220 --> 01:10:18,390
This is the stuff that helps us
get through life.
1584
01:10:21,440 --> 01:10:23,270
That's the kind of opportunity
1585
01:10:23,310 --> 01:10:25,790
that I would have killed for
in the '90s,
1586
01:10:25,830 --> 01:10:27,140
reading script after script
after script
1587
01:10:27,180 --> 01:10:29,360
and wanting to read
for the lead girl
1588
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:32,060
but going, "Oh, no, okay,
I'm the friend,
1589
01:10:32,100 --> 01:10:34,670
so I'm gonna say,
'Are you okay?
1590
01:10:34,710 --> 01:10:36,370
Oh, are you okay?
1591
01:10:36,410 --> 01:10:37,760
Are you okay?'"
1592
01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:38,760
- Are you okay?
1593
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:40,110
- Yeah.
1594
01:10:40,150 --> 01:10:42,150
- I mean, six million
different ways to Sunday,
1595
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:44,200
I have to figure out a million
different line readings
1596
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:47,250
for the same line because
whatever thing is going on,
1597
01:10:47,290 --> 01:10:49,550
it's not about the black people
we're going through,
1598
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:52,250
it's, "Are you, white person
in peril, okay?"
1599
01:10:52,290 --> 01:10:54,040
So when I saw that movie,
1600
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:56,520
I was like,
"Okay, things are shifting."
1601
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:59,080
We've shifted
from being the focal point
1602
01:10:59,130 --> 01:11:03,520
of the fear, other,
to being the heroes, right?
1603
01:11:03,570 --> 01:11:04,790
To being the icons.
1604
01:11:04,830 --> 01:11:06,610
To being the one
that you in the audience
1605
01:11:06,660 --> 01:11:07,790
are looking up to.
1606
01:11:07,830 --> 01:11:10,270
That's been very exciting
to watch unfold.
1607
01:11:10,310 --> 01:11:11,880
- If you have to ride
in the back of the bus
1608
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:16,670
for 90% of history, it takes
a little bit to get in front.
1609
01:11:16,710 --> 01:11:18,280
- Black is in fashion.
1610
01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:23,060
"Get Out" I think,
1611
01:11:23,110 --> 01:11:27,290
is kind of like
a perfect movie of its time.
1612
01:11:27,330 --> 01:11:29,900
It came out like the transition
between the Obama administration
1613
01:11:29,940 --> 01:11:30,900
and the Trump administration.
1614
01:11:30,940 --> 01:11:31,900
- Yeah.
1615
01:11:31,940 --> 01:11:33,160
- So, I mean,
1616
01:11:33,210 --> 01:11:36,030
I remember when
Obama was elected.
1617
01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:38,250
People were actually
having debates about whether
1618
01:11:38,300 --> 01:11:40,560
racism is dead now
and that sort of thing.
1619
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:43,080
Is this a post-racial world
and all that?
1620
01:11:43,130 --> 01:11:45,570
As Trump's campaign came along,
1621
01:11:45,610 --> 01:11:49,440
I think the public
came to be aware like,
1622
01:11:49,480 --> 01:11:52,350
"Uh-oh, you know,
racism still does exist."
1623
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:55,310
- A horrific scene
in Charlottesville, Virginia.
1624
01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:58,190
The hate boiling over
white supremacists
1625
01:11:58,230 --> 01:12:01,890
and countered protestors
fighting with fists and clubs,
1626
01:12:01,930 --> 01:12:04,370
confederate flags
on full display.
1627
01:12:04,410 --> 01:12:06,240
I think
there's blame on both sides
1628
01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:08,020
and I have no doubt about it.
1629
01:12:08,070 --> 01:12:10,720
- You will not replace us.
1630
01:12:10,760 --> 01:12:13,590
White lives matter!
1631
01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:14,810
It sort of like shows you
1632
01:12:14,860 --> 01:12:16,380
where the culture is
right now
1633
01:12:16,420 --> 01:12:18,030
as far as black men
are concerned.
1634
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:19,290
- Yes.
1635
01:12:19,340 --> 01:12:21,820
- And a lot of the fears
that we go through
1636
01:12:21,860 --> 01:12:24,740
being a part of the black race.
1637
01:12:26,910 --> 01:12:30,740
When I think about
the fears that we deal with,
1638
01:12:30,780 --> 01:12:35,220
I think that anything
that we suppress as people,
1639
01:12:35,270 --> 01:12:40,580
anything that we push down
and hold deep is gonna explode.
1640
01:12:40,620 --> 01:12:44,410
It's gonna come out
in a nasty way
1641
01:12:44,450 --> 01:12:48,720
if it's held on to
long enough.
1642
01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:54,160
So, I think we need these valves
for our fears.
1643
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:55,590
- Sink into the floor.
1644
01:12:55,640 --> 01:12:56,680
- Wait, wait,
wait, wait, wait.
1645
01:12:56,720 --> 01:12:57,640
- Sink.
1646
01:13:02,820 --> 01:13:04,780
- Floored me right to the...
1647
01:13:04,820 --> 01:13:06,650
I had no idea what to expect.
1648
01:13:06,690 --> 01:13:09,040
Is this
something that we, as a people,
1649
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:11,390
always talk about.
- Exactly.
1650
01:13:11,430 --> 01:13:13,910
- Like, you know, it's like
you told our secret.
1651
01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:17,700
-
- That we do have a fear
1652
01:13:17,740 --> 01:13:24,100
that these people
are trying to steal our souls.
1653
01:13:24,140 --> 01:13:26,010
It's an auction, you know.
1654
01:13:26,060 --> 01:13:27,620
It's an auction block
1655
01:13:27,670 --> 01:13:30,020
and she's disguised
in a different way.
1656
01:13:30,060 --> 01:13:33,020
-
1657
01:13:33,060 --> 01:13:35,540
- What the maid to me
represented in "Get Out"
1658
01:13:35,590 --> 01:13:39,330
is just what maids has been
doing through history.
1659
01:13:39,370 --> 01:13:41,900
They've been trying to tell you.
1660
01:13:41,940 --> 01:13:47,600
- Oh, no. No. No.
1661
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:50,910
No, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no.
1662
01:13:50,950 --> 01:13:52,340
- They've been
sitting at the table
1663
01:13:52,390 --> 01:13:54,830
with the white people
and saying look,
1664
01:13:54,870 --> 01:13:57,480
"We ain't gonna do this.
Get the hell out of here."
1665
01:13:59,130 --> 01:14:00,610
I think
one of my favorite parts
1666
01:14:00,660 --> 01:14:04,490
is when the girl is smiling
and crying at the same time.
1667
01:14:04,530 --> 01:14:06,490
- My favorite part is when
he was beatin' their ass!
1668
01:14:06,530 --> 01:14:07,840
-
1669
01:14:09,490 --> 01:14:11,150
I was like,
"Oh, you didn't get
1670
01:14:11,190 --> 01:14:14,540
that he was like picking
cotton out of the chair?"
1671
01:14:14,580 --> 01:14:17,200
Or, "You didn't get,
like he killed him with a buck.
1672
01:14:18,330 --> 01:14:19,980
Did you not know
that black men were called bucks
1673
01:14:20,020 --> 01:14:21,370
during slavery?"
1674
01:14:22,420 --> 01:14:25,290
- I felt like
I wanna make the movie
1675
01:14:25,330 --> 01:14:28,730
as answering every
disappointed black person
1676
01:14:28,770 --> 01:14:32,990
that goes to a theater
and watches, you know,
1677
01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:34,950
white protagonists
make dumb decisions.
1678
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:36,130
- No, no, no, no, no.
1679
01:14:36,170 --> 01:14:38,000
No, no, no, don't do that!
1680
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:39,870
- And that sense
of marginalization
1681
01:14:41,570 --> 01:14:44,610
that sense of,
"Can we just...?
1682
01:14:44,660 --> 01:14:47,010
If there was a brother in here,
that would never happen.
1683
01:14:47,050 --> 01:14:48,360
That would never happen.
1684
01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:50,230
If there was a sister,
would never let this...
1685
01:14:50,270 --> 01:14:52,230
she would be out of the house."
1686
01:14:56,930 --> 01:14:58,410
Spoiler alert,
1687
01:14:58,450 --> 01:15:01,280
but there's no good white people
in this movie.
1688
01:15:01,330 --> 01:15:04,720
That white savior trope
always pops up.
1689
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:07,200
There's always
one good white person.
1690
01:15:07,250 --> 01:15:09,290
I saw this as obviously
this opportunity
1691
01:15:09,330 --> 01:15:12,690
to use that to my favor.
1692
01:15:12,730 --> 01:15:14,820
The audience is expecting,
though, you have to have
1693
01:15:14,860 --> 01:15:17,910
one good white person
in the film, right?
1694
01:15:19,780 --> 01:15:21,610
- You know I can't give you
the keys, right, babe?
1695
01:15:22,910 --> 01:15:24,480
- I couldn't believe
what I was watching.
1696
01:15:30,830 --> 01:15:35,230
- I made "Get Out"
for everybody in the audience,
1697
01:15:35,270 --> 01:15:40,450
you know, I didn't want anybody
to see the film and not get it,
1698
01:15:40,500 --> 01:15:43,460
but I really made it
for black audiences,
1699
01:15:43,500 --> 01:15:46,980
that meaning, if black audience
didn't get it,
1700
01:15:47,020 --> 01:15:50,240
and didn't get like it,
that's a fail, you know.
1701
01:15:50,290 --> 01:15:53,470
- Not surprisingly
but kind of surprisingly,
1702
01:15:53,510 --> 01:15:56,690
the white guy next to me
and all the audience members
1703
01:15:56,730 --> 01:15:58,990
who were white
were cheering for Chris.
1704
01:16:02,560 --> 01:16:06,000
That empathy
that we have so often
1705
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:09,000
had to extend to characters
who didn't look like us,
1706
01:16:09,050 --> 01:16:12,830
white audience members were
extending their empathy to him.
1707
01:16:14,180 --> 01:16:16,840
The ending of "Get Out"
1708
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:21,750
was very inspired by
"Night of the Living Dead",
1709
01:16:21,800 --> 01:16:25,320
although I didn't necessarily
know it when it happened.
1710
01:16:25,370 --> 01:16:26,760
You know,
it was common knowledge
1711
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:30,890
that my intention was to have
Chris go to jail
1712
01:16:30,940 --> 01:16:33,330
and that the cops would come out
and take him away.
1713
01:16:33,370 --> 01:16:34,460
- Get up here!
1714
01:16:39,990 --> 01:16:42,470
- Now most realistic ending is
he's shot on the road.
1715
01:16:42,510 --> 01:16:43,600
-
1716
01:16:48,430 --> 01:16:49,610
- No one wants to watch that.
1717
01:16:49,650 --> 01:16:52,050
That's headlines,
that's hashtags.
1718
01:16:52,090 --> 01:16:54,870
Prison would have been
a little bit more of a mercy
1719
01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:57,140
but even so, I have seen
enough black men
1720
01:16:57,180 --> 01:16:58,620
in prison orange.
1721
01:16:58,660 --> 01:17:01,530
I could go my whole life
without seeing another film
1722
01:17:01,580 --> 01:17:03,840
or television program
about black men in prison.
1723
01:17:05,970 --> 01:17:09,980
By the time I
showed the film to an audience,
1724
01:17:10,020 --> 01:17:11,800
the culture
were at change, okay,
1725
01:17:11,850 --> 01:17:14,940
so Black Lives Matter
had become a presence
1726
01:17:14,980 --> 01:17:17,900
and there was now attention
to racial violence
1727
01:17:17,940 --> 01:17:20,860
in a way that there hadn't been
when I first wrote it.
1728
01:17:20,900 --> 01:17:24,380
- The lights of the car said
it was the cops coming
1729
01:17:24,430 --> 01:17:27,390
and it was a whole another
rash of fear.
1730
01:17:27,430 --> 01:17:29,210
It was almost like
the Klan is coming.
1731
01:17:29,260 --> 01:17:30,780
Because it was like,
1732
01:17:30,820 --> 01:17:32,560
"Oh, my God, if it's the cops,
he doesn't have a chance."
1733
01:17:32,610 --> 01:17:36,660
- Black people also were
expressing this like,
1734
01:17:36,700 --> 01:17:39,400
"Yo, we need a hero.
We need a release.
1735
01:17:39,440 --> 01:17:41,570
We need a cheer,"
and so I listened to that.
1736
01:17:44,270 --> 01:17:47,100
To have
Rod show up and save him,
1737
01:17:47,140 --> 01:17:51,760
that lets you know
that there will be no Chris
1738
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:55,330
being speared by meathooks,
being burned on a pyre.
1739
01:17:55,370 --> 01:17:57,370
There will be no lynching today.
1740
01:17:57,420 --> 01:17:59,030
That's the power of "Get Out".
1741
01:18:02,590 --> 01:18:04,990
- The fact that this movie
had never been made,
1742
01:18:05,030 --> 01:18:09,430
not only "Get Out" itself,
the fact that there's, you know,
1743
01:18:09,470 --> 01:18:14,520
a small handful of films
led by black people,
1744
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:18,960
to me,
was the horror itself.
1745
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:21,960
It's no mistake
that the sunken place
1746
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:26,140
feels and looks like
a darkened theatre, right?
1747
01:18:26,180 --> 01:18:32,580
We're allowed to buy a ticket
and yell at the screen
1748
01:18:32,620 --> 01:18:36,060
but we're never going to get
that representation.
1749
01:18:39,330 --> 01:18:40,500
- What's going on, man?
1750
01:18:42,020 --> 01:18:43,980
I can't see myself.
1751
01:18:44,030 --> 01:18:47,420
- I'm afraid that's one of
the misfortunes of the cursed.
1752
01:18:47,470 --> 01:18:49,340
- This really ain't hip!
1753
01:18:49,380 --> 01:18:51,990
I mean, a man has
got to see his face!
1754
01:18:52,030 --> 01:18:53,780
Probably
of any line in that film,
1755
01:18:53,820 --> 01:18:57,480
that line reverberates.
1756
01:18:57,520 --> 01:19:00,740
"A man has got to be able
to see himself,"
1757
01:19:00,780 --> 01:19:04,830
is really a prophetic line
1758
01:19:04,870 --> 01:19:08,180
'cause it represents
black people
1759
01:19:08,230 --> 01:19:13,490
and black people's history
and legacy and journey
1760
01:19:13,530 --> 01:19:16,150
and the ability
to see yourself today.
1761
01:19:16,190 --> 01:19:19,370
- It's finally dawning on
the powers that be
1762
01:19:19,410 --> 01:19:22,540
that horror
is a valid genre, right?
1763
01:19:22,590 --> 01:19:24,940
It's not just some little
odd thing over there
1764
01:19:24,980 --> 01:19:28,250
that low budget people make,
and make a little money on,
1765
01:19:28,290 --> 01:19:29,550
and we make fun of.
1766
01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:33,860
MIGUEL A. NUÑ
Because of "Get Out"
1767
01:19:33,900 --> 01:19:35,640
I think black is the new green.
1768
01:19:35,690 --> 01:19:38,690
I think any little
remaining shades of,
1769
01:19:38,730 --> 01:19:40,610
"Uh, if he's black,
do you think it'll work?
1770
01:19:40,650 --> 01:19:42,220
You know, if it's a black cast,
you think it'll work?
1771
01:19:42,260 --> 01:19:43,830
If it's a black director,
you think it'll work?"
1772
01:19:43,870 --> 01:19:46,310
All those little bitty
remaining barriers
1773
01:19:46,350 --> 01:19:48,270
have been completely removed.
1774
01:19:48,310 --> 01:19:50,530
There's some people right now,
and I know this to be a fact,
1775
01:19:50,570 --> 01:19:52,620
that are changing
some of their white scripts
1776
01:19:52,660 --> 01:19:54,360
to make them black now.
1777
01:19:54,400 --> 01:19:55,530
- There's less and less of this,
1778
01:19:55,580 --> 01:19:56,930
"Oh, well, black people
don't like,
1779
01:19:56,970 --> 01:19:58,490
watch,
or make horror films."
1780
01:19:58,540 --> 01:20:02,710
I think that's a conversation
that's becoming obsolete.
1781
01:20:02,760 --> 01:20:04,720
A part of the work that I do
that I love doing is
1782
01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:07,680
I get to talk to these new
and up-and-coming filmmakers
1783
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:10,770
who are making these
really fun and funny
1784
01:20:10,810 --> 01:20:14,070
but also scary
and introspective films.
1785
01:20:14,120 --> 01:20:17,690
- Just so many up-and-coming
talents out there
1786
01:20:17,730 --> 01:20:19,820
that's, you know,
that's pretty exciting
1787
01:20:19,860 --> 01:20:23,870
and gives me hope
for the future that we're...
1788
01:20:23,910 --> 01:20:24,950
- We'll help other and...
1789
01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:27,000
- Yeah!
- ...and change the game.
1790
01:20:27,040 --> 01:20:29,830
- We just need to all
get in the door, you know.
1791
01:20:29,870 --> 01:20:32,310
There's so many stories
and so many genres
1792
01:20:32,350 --> 01:20:33,750
that we belong to.
1793
01:20:33,790 --> 01:20:35,660
- I just have
so many people like say,
1794
01:20:35,700 --> 01:20:37,100
"I got a horror film.
I got a horror film.
1795
01:20:37,140 --> 01:20:38,100
I got a horror film,"
1796
01:20:38,140 --> 01:20:40,450
and this is way before
"Get Out".
1797
01:20:40,490 --> 01:20:41,970
And now, maybe
they'll get a chance
1798
01:20:42,010 --> 01:20:44,630
to actually get that out
to the public.
1799
01:20:44,670 --> 01:20:45,890
- These are stories
1800
01:20:45,930 --> 01:20:50,500
by black creators
for black viewers.
1801
01:20:50,540 --> 01:20:52,720
If whites want to enjoy it,fine,
1802
01:20:52,760 --> 01:20:55,770
but it's not about them, right?
It's about us.
1803
01:20:55,810 --> 01:20:58,600
I think
the entire film industry
1804
01:20:58,640 --> 01:21:02,080
are ready for us
to open up the doors.
1805
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:07,130
Just seeing
black heroes and leads on screen
1806
01:21:07,170 --> 01:21:08,820
like the next generation
won't think,
1807
01:21:08,870 --> 01:21:10,610
"Oh, that's weird."
1808
01:21:10,650 --> 01:21:12,000
They're gonna think,
1809
01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:14,570
"That's perfectly normal
to have the black lead,
1810
01:21:14,610 --> 01:21:15,960
the black person
save the day."
1811
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:19,090
- If we can use
what we've experienced,
1812
01:21:19,140 --> 01:21:22,180
we can tell stories that people
have never seen before,
1813
01:21:22,230 --> 01:21:25,010
so that's what I'm excited
to see coming.
1814
01:21:25,060 --> 01:21:29,980
- There's a draw
and a connection there
1815
01:21:30,020 --> 01:21:33,330
in the minority experience
for these horror films.
1816
01:21:33,370 --> 01:21:35,980
The industry's realized,
"Oh, yeah,
1817
01:21:36,020 --> 01:21:41,250
white people will see movies
about non-white people."
1818
01:21:43,290 --> 01:21:45,900
They will. They'll see.
You just have to make 'em.
1819
01:21:55,440 --> 01:21:57,090
- Mic.
- Thank you.
1820
01:21:57,130 --> 01:21:59,000
- Are we rolling?
1821
01:21:59,050 --> 01:22:00,610
Why didn't somebody tell us
we were rolling?
1822
01:22:00,660 --> 01:22:02,310
No one said anything!
1823
01:22:02,360 --> 01:22:03,840
We just sitting here talking...
I didn't know we were rolling.
1824
01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:05,320
No one said Action.
1825
01:22:05,360 --> 01:22:06,530
- That always got me up like
1826
01:22:06,580 --> 01:22:08,360
I don't know about
the fashion of the time,
1827
01:22:08,410 --> 01:22:09,970
but I'm like, you know,
1828
01:22:10,020 --> 01:22:12,840
these murders going around,
people with bites in their neck,
1829
01:22:12,890 --> 01:22:14,980
and no one's suspecting
the guy with the cape.
1830
01:22:15,020 --> 01:22:17,680
- Nobody!
- They did the mash...
1831
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:19,370
They did the monster mash!
1832
01:22:19,420 --> 01:22:22,510
- Horra? Horror?
1833
01:22:22,550 --> 01:22:24,070
It's like rhymes
with torah, right?
1834
01:22:24,120 --> 01:22:26,030
Horra? Torah?
1835
01:22:26,070 --> 01:22:29,820
I cannot horror.
I love talking horra.
1836
01:22:29,860 --> 01:22:32,690
Oh, shit.
I love talking horror.
1837
01:22:32,730 --> 01:22:34,690
They play the monster mash!
1838
01:22:36,910 --> 01:22:39,350
- Brown's in Town!
1839
01:22:39,390 --> 01:22:41,790
- "Return of the Living Dead"
was one of my favorite films.
1840
01:22:41,830 --> 01:22:45,490
I didn't know anything
and the entire film,
1841
01:22:45,530 --> 01:22:48,790
I was supposed to be walking
around with a naked girl.
1842
01:22:48,840 --> 01:22:50,360
- Right.
- So, if you watch it,
1843
01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:52,270
go back to the movie, 'cause
when the scenes were on her,
1844
01:22:53,620 --> 01:22:57,110
most people lookin' at her but
next time, when you watch it,
1845
01:22:57,150 --> 01:22:59,410
look at me
and I'm gonna be like this.
1846
01:23:00,720 --> 01:23:02,720
- Every scene I was like that!
1847
01:23:02,760 --> 01:23:04,770
- So, any of you filmmakers,
1848
01:23:04,810 --> 01:23:06,940
if you wanna include
a couple of old timers,
1849
01:23:06,990 --> 01:23:10,380
hey, you know,
my number still works. Okay?
1850
01:23:10,420 --> 01:23:12,430
- Our numbers still work.
- You know what I mean?
1851
01:23:12,470 --> 01:23:14,430
- Are we finished? 'Cause I
wanna watch this whole movie.