1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:40,127 --> 00:00:43,391 Dr. Bonner, fellow prophets, and... 4 00:00:43,434 --> 00:00:46,742 Ladies and gentlemen... 5 00:00:49,701 --> 00:00:53,531 This summer, I traveled through 6 00:00:53,575 --> 00:00:57,274 northern Arizona and southern Utah. 7 00:00:57,318 --> 00:01:00,408 In this land, the rivers have carved 8 00:01:00,451 --> 00:01:03,367 great gorges, 9 00:01:03,411 --> 00:01:08,677 and on the sheer cliffs of these gorges, 10 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:14,074 one can read a billion years of the history of the Earth. 11 00:01:18,295 --> 00:01:21,559 On that immense scale 12 00:01:21,603 --> 00:01:26,564 of what represents the passage of perhaps 100,000 years, 13 00:01:26,608 --> 00:01:28,740 all of man's recorded history 14 00:01:28,784 --> 00:01:33,223 took place as an inch was deposited, 15 00:01:33,267 --> 00:01:36,444 all of organized science, a millimeter, 16 00:01:36,487 --> 00:01:41,144 all we know of genetics, a few tens of microns. 17 00:02:00,598 --> 00:02:04,602 The dramatic advances of the past few decades 18 00:02:04,646 --> 00:02:07,779 have led to the discovery of DNA 19 00:02:07,823 --> 00:02:12,262 and to the decipherment of the universal hereditary code, 20 00:02:12,306 --> 00:02:15,265 the age-old language of the living cell. 21 00:02:18,660 --> 00:02:21,445 And with this understanding 22 00:02:21,489 --> 00:02:24,535 will come the control of processes 23 00:02:24,579 --> 00:02:26,668 that have known only the mindless discipline 24 00:02:26,711 --> 00:02:29,888 of natural selection for 2 billion years. 25 00:02:34,328 --> 00:02:37,548 And now the impact of science will strike straight home, 26 00:02:37,592 --> 00:02:39,942 for the biological world includes us. 27 00:02:47,341 --> 00:02:49,691 We will surely come to the time 28 00:02:49,734 --> 00:02:52,215 when man will have the power to alter, 29 00:02:52,259 --> 00:02:56,741 specifically and consciously, his very genes. 30 00:02:56,785 --> 00:02:59,570 This will be a new event in the universe. 31 00:02:59,614 --> 00:03:02,660 The prospect is, to me, 32 00:03:02,704 --> 00:03:05,489 awesome in its potential for deliverance 33 00:03:05,533 --> 00:03:07,839 or equally for disaster. 34 00:03:26,989 --> 00:03:29,557 There we go. Much better. 35 00:03:33,735 --> 00:03:36,825 You want to squeeze my hand? 36 00:03:36,868 --> 00:03:39,349 Relax your shoulders. 37 00:03:39,393 --> 00:03:42,570 Relax your toes. 38 00:03:42,613 --> 00:03:46,617 -Being in the hospital isn't scary to me. 39 00:03:46,661 --> 00:03:50,665 Having a certain new problem isn't scary to me anymore 40 00:03:50,708 --> 00:03:53,624 'cause it's happened so many times. 41 00:03:53,668 --> 00:03:55,322 I don't know. 42 00:03:55,365 --> 00:03:58,890 My blood just does not like me very much, I guess. 43 00:03:58,934 --> 00:04:01,284 Your red cells are supposed to be round 44 00:04:01,328 --> 00:04:04,461 and have oxygen in them. 45 00:04:04,505 --> 00:04:07,899 Mine are half-moon-shaped, sickle-shaped, 46 00:04:07,943 --> 00:04:10,641 which is why it's called sickle cell, 47 00:04:10,685 --> 00:04:14,428 so I don't get the same amount of oxygen. 48 00:04:19,563 --> 00:04:21,783 I always say, like, oil change, you know? 49 00:04:21,826 --> 00:04:24,046 You're draining the dirty out and then put a clean in. 50 00:04:24,089 --> 00:04:25,917 Yeah, so he just needs a tune-up 51 00:04:25,961 --> 00:04:28,964 every four to six weeks, yeah, uh-huh. 52 00:04:29,007 --> 00:04:30,748 Yeah. That okay? 53 00:04:30,792 --> 00:04:32,707 -Okay. -Put this on. 54 00:04:36,928 --> 00:04:39,366 Take deep breath and hold. 55 00:04:43,587 --> 00:04:45,589 Mm. 56 00:04:50,115 --> 00:04:51,291 Okay. 57 00:04:53,597 --> 00:04:55,469 You okay, David? Mm-hmm? 58 00:04:57,819 --> 00:04:59,821 He used to tell me, "Don't cry, Nonna. 59 00:04:59,864 --> 00:05:02,345 Why are you crying?" 60 00:05:02,389 --> 00:05:05,348 I said, you know, "Love you, baby." 61 00:05:05,392 --> 00:05:06,697 He goes, "Don't worry about it." 62 00:05:06,741 --> 00:05:08,612 He says, "If I lose my life," he goes, 63 00:05:08,656 --> 00:05:11,833 "You'll see me again," and I thought, 64 00:05:11,876 --> 00:05:16,968 "This child has more strength and faith than I do." 65 00:05:50,654 --> 00:05:53,744 -It's often called the first molecular disease. 66 00:05:53,788 --> 00:05:57,444 It's caused by a single change in the DNA sequence. 67 00:06:02,536 --> 00:06:05,669 It's the letter A changed to a letter T. 68 00:06:05,713 --> 00:06:08,498 -That's it? -That's it. 69 00:06:08,542 --> 00:06:10,457 -And that mutation causes a kink in the protein 70 00:06:10,500 --> 00:06:13,721 that prevents it from folding properly. 71 00:06:13,764 --> 00:06:17,812 If your folding structure of a protein is disrupted, 72 00:06:17,855 --> 00:06:20,205 now that protein can't function. 73 00:06:20,249 --> 00:06:22,207 It causes the red blood cell 74 00:06:22,251 --> 00:06:25,907 to really collapse. 75 00:06:25,950 --> 00:06:29,867 -It becomes very stiff, and it can't squeeze through 76 00:06:29,911 --> 00:06:32,174 and you're not able to get red blood cells 77 00:06:32,217 --> 00:06:34,872 to the tissues where they can deliver oxygen, 78 00:06:34,916 --> 00:06:38,920 and if you block the ability of oxygen to get to those tissues, 79 00:06:38,963 --> 00:06:42,053 those tissues won't work well and they'll get damaged. 80 00:06:44,665 --> 00:06:47,494 In Africa, the life expectancy 81 00:06:47,537 --> 00:06:49,104 for somebody with sickle cell disease 82 00:06:49,147 --> 00:06:52,542 is on the order of five to eight years of age. 83 00:06:52,586 --> 00:06:55,893 In the U.S., it's the early to mid-40s. 84 00:06:55,937 --> 00:06:59,201 What do you say to a kid that their life is gonna be-- 85 00:06:59,244 --> 00:07:01,464 We avoid it. We avoid that conver-- 86 00:07:01,508 --> 00:07:02,813 -it's not a--it's-- -Really? 87 00:07:02,857 --> 00:07:05,033 It's not a conversation we're good at having. 88 00:07:05,076 --> 00:07:09,951 Makes me very nervous. 89 00:07:09,994 --> 00:07:12,954 David can go from crazy teenager, 90 00:07:12,997 --> 00:07:15,826 joking, jumping around, 91 00:07:15,870 --> 00:07:20,570 to a fetal position on his knees. 92 00:07:20,614 --> 00:07:22,877 -It's, like, pulsing. 93 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,533 "This hurts. 94 00:07:26,576 --> 00:07:28,796 You're having a sickle cell crisis." 95 00:07:31,146 --> 00:07:33,496 I can have, like, a little pain crisis 96 00:07:33,540 --> 00:07:34,932 where it really doesn't count, 97 00:07:34,976 --> 00:07:37,718 and then I can have something really bad, 98 00:07:37,761 --> 00:07:40,111 but I'm not just gonna not play basketball. 99 00:07:40,155 --> 00:07:42,026 You can't just not play basketball. 100 00:07:49,164 --> 00:07:52,167 This is David's old red blood cells. 101 00:07:52,210 --> 00:07:55,126 We're gonna save for research. 102 00:07:57,085 --> 00:07:59,087 How do you sing? 103 00:08:03,004 --> 00:08:04,527 It's a genetic disorder, 104 00:08:04,571 --> 00:08:06,790 so in order to cure a genetic disorder, 105 00:08:06,834 --> 00:08:08,966 you literally have to go in and fix the gene. 106 00:08:09,010 --> 00:08:11,621 We just didn't have the tools 107 00:08:11,665 --> 00:08:14,972 to make that single letter change in a precise fashion. 108 00:08:15,016 --> 00:08:17,671 -Even one letter? -Especially one letter. 109 00:08:29,204 --> 00:08:33,034 -Deoxyribonucleic acid, or DNA for short, 110 00:08:33,077 --> 00:08:36,603 is the material that's the basis of life. 111 00:08:36,646 --> 00:08:39,214 Each living thing has its unique DNA 112 00:08:39,257 --> 00:08:41,259 that determines what that living thing will be: 113 00:08:41,303 --> 00:08:43,174 plant or animal, man or muskrat. 114 00:08:48,658 --> 00:08:51,008 If we understood the structure of genes, 115 00:08:51,052 --> 00:08:53,924 the structure of chromosomes and how genes work, 116 00:08:53,968 --> 00:08:56,579 then we might better be able to understand 117 00:08:56,623 --> 00:09:01,845 and treat genetic diseases which occur in humans. 118 00:09:01,889 --> 00:09:04,195 The work that Paul Berg did, 119 00:09:04,239 --> 00:09:06,981 that was probably the beginning. 120 00:09:07,024 --> 00:09:09,723 This dream of gene therapy 121 00:09:09,766 --> 00:09:12,334 was born out of those 1970s experiments, 122 00:09:12,377 --> 00:09:14,379 and we were still very far away from it, 123 00:09:14,423 --> 00:09:17,644 but you'll see people talking about that hope right away. 124 00:09:17,687 --> 00:09:20,168 The hope is that the isolation of the gene 125 00:09:20,211 --> 00:09:21,299 will lead to treatment of people 126 00:09:21,343 --> 00:09:22,692 with muscular dystrophy. 127 00:09:22,736 --> 00:09:25,042 Scientists are working on genetic cures 128 00:09:25,086 --> 00:09:27,741 for diseases such as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. 129 00:09:27,784 --> 00:09:30,961 A, T, A, G, C... 130 00:09:31,005 --> 00:09:33,268 -The idea behind gene therapy is really simple: 131 00:09:33,311 --> 00:09:35,313 add in a copy of the gene that works. 132 00:09:35,357 --> 00:09:36,793 Then they'll make the protein that works, 133 00:09:36,837 --> 00:09:38,621 and then they won't be sick anymore. 134 00:09:38,665 --> 00:09:41,232 But the devil, as is often the case, is in the details. 135 00:09:41,276 --> 00:09:43,191 Right now, we have the ability 136 00:09:43,234 --> 00:09:45,715 to identify the gene, to isolate it, 137 00:09:45,759 --> 00:09:48,196 but the ability to put it where we want it 138 00:09:48,239 --> 00:09:50,024 is still a long ways away. 139 00:09:50,067 --> 00:09:51,765 -If you put a gene into a cell, 140 00:09:51,808 --> 00:09:54,245 you cannot tell exactly where that gene 141 00:09:54,289 --> 00:09:56,378 is going to enter the cell's chromosome. 142 00:09:56,421 --> 00:09:58,815 -Conventional gene therapy 143 00:09:58,859 --> 00:10:02,732 is an essentially random process. 144 00:10:02,776 --> 00:10:05,822 So imagine taking this century-long narrative, 145 00:10:05,866 --> 00:10:07,781 which is human DNA, 146 00:10:07,824 --> 00:10:09,347 which is a very, very long text, 147 00:10:09,391 --> 00:10:11,001 and taking one paragraph 148 00:10:11,045 --> 00:10:13,003 and just sticking it somewhere random. 149 00:10:13,047 --> 00:10:16,311 The change you are creating is not a controlled one. 150 00:10:31,326 --> 00:10:33,807 -There was a clinical trial that was done in France. 151 00:10:33,850 --> 00:10:35,112 This was for really sick children. 152 00:10:35,156 --> 00:10:36,810 I want to be clear. 153 00:10:36,853 --> 00:10:39,421 This was for children who would have died otherwise. 154 00:10:43,077 --> 00:10:45,775 Four of these children developed cancer. 155 00:10:45,819 --> 00:10:47,995 One of them died. 156 00:10:48,038 --> 00:10:51,912 The gene went into the wrong place 157 00:10:51,955 --> 00:10:53,696 because it's a random process, and, by chance, 158 00:10:53,740 --> 00:10:55,089 it went into the wrong place, 159 00:10:55,132 --> 00:10:57,134 and that random event caused cancer. 160 00:11:00,224 --> 00:11:03,924 You know, you always think that what you know 161 00:11:03,967 --> 00:11:05,795 is gonna get a little better and a little better 162 00:11:05,839 --> 00:11:07,710 and a little better and soon will be there, 163 00:11:07,754 --> 00:11:10,713 and what we knew how to do 164 00:11:10,757 --> 00:11:12,019 wasn't getting a whole lot better. 165 00:11:12,062 --> 00:11:13,803 It was getting a little bit better. 166 00:11:13,847 --> 00:11:16,893 The technology was just too clumsy 167 00:11:16,937 --> 00:11:19,374 to actually use it with human beings. 168 00:11:19,417 --> 00:11:22,203 It became very, very clear to us 169 00:11:22,246 --> 00:11:24,814 that we are at the foot of a very tall mountain 170 00:11:24,858 --> 00:11:27,077 and we may not even have the right mountaineering gear. 171 00:11:30,951 --> 00:11:34,171 I worked at this company called Sangamo Biosciences. 172 00:11:34,215 --> 00:11:36,826 We decided to figure out a way 173 00:11:36,870 --> 00:11:40,961 to change human genes in a precise fashion. 174 00:11:41,004 --> 00:11:43,485 You know, this would be like word processors for your DNA. 175 00:11:46,401 --> 00:11:50,318 This will get technical but good technical. 176 00:11:50,361 --> 00:11:53,843 DNA breaks all the time. 177 00:11:53,887 --> 00:11:55,802 You go get a dental X-ray. 178 00:11:55,845 --> 00:11:57,368 The technician points this thing at your face... 179 00:11:58,805 --> 00:12:00,850 And the X-rays actually hit your DNA, 180 00:12:00,894 --> 00:12:02,373 and they physically create a break, 181 00:12:02,417 --> 00:12:05,028 so the familiar double helix of DNA physically goes... 182 00:12:05,072 --> 00:12:06,769 The good news is, 183 00:12:06,813 --> 00:12:10,860 the cell has its own machine to fixing breaks. 184 00:12:10,904 --> 00:12:12,470 Inside our cells, 185 00:12:12,514 --> 00:12:14,429 there are two identical DNA molecules 186 00:12:14,472 --> 00:12:16,910 lying side by side, literally side by side. 187 00:12:16,953 --> 00:12:20,565 If one is broken, it can say to its sister-- 188 00:12:20,609 --> 00:12:22,916 and that, in fact, is the technical term--the sister. 189 00:12:22,959 --> 00:12:25,483 "Hey, sis, I'm sorry. I've had a break. 190 00:12:25,527 --> 00:12:28,356 I'm wondering if I can copy the missing genetic information." 191 00:12:28,399 --> 00:12:30,401 And the sister goes, "Yeah." 192 00:12:40,455 --> 00:12:43,284 Done. 193 00:12:43,327 --> 00:12:45,503 "Chromosome broken 194 00:12:45,547 --> 00:12:48,898 "awaits sounds of strands pairing, 195 00:12:48,942 --> 00:12:51,422 preserving the life's thread." 196 00:12:53,207 --> 00:12:56,863 There's really a haiku about homology directed repair. 197 00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:00,170 Why is that useful? 198 00:13:00,214 --> 00:13:02,259 So it's useful because 199 00:13:02,303 --> 00:13:05,915 if you can cut a gene inside a cell, 200 00:13:05,959 --> 00:13:10,267 so if you can create a break at a place of interest, 201 00:13:10,311 --> 00:13:13,314 then you can change that gene. 202 00:13:13,357 --> 00:13:16,883 You fool the cell, 203 00:13:16,926 --> 00:13:21,452 give it a separate piece of DNA that you have made, 204 00:13:21,496 --> 00:13:24,151 a piece of DNA which is identical 205 00:13:24,194 --> 00:13:26,457 to the chromosome that you are cutting 206 00:13:26,501 --> 00:13:29,330 except for the change that you wish to make. 207 00:13:32,507 --> 00:13:35,292 And Mother Nature will not know she's being fooled. 208 00:13:35,336 --> 00:13:37,251 She will repair the break 209 00:13:37,294 --> 00:13:40,123 using this piece of DNA you provided as a template, 210 00:13:40,167 --> 00:13:42,038 and so whatever change you brought in 211 00:13:42,082 --> 00:13:43,953 will then go into the chromosome. 212 00:13:49,263 --> 00:13:52,962 You can think of it like a cursor in Microsoft Word. 213 00:13:53,006 --> 00:13:55,486 In Word, if you have a document where you edit, 214 00:13:55,530 --> 00:13:58,359 first you have to place the cursor there. 215 00:14:01,492 --> 00:14:04,191 In DNA, wherever you make a cut 216 00:14:04,234 --> 00:14:06,584 is the equivalent of a cursor 217 00:14:06,628 --> 00:14:10,110 in this word processor of the genome. 218 00:14:10,153 --> 00:14:12,329 That's where you can type in a new word. 219 00:14:17,073 --> 00:14:20,424 So if you wanted to use that capability 220 00:14:20,468 --> 00:14:23,558 to "engineer the genome," 221 00:14:23,601 --> 00:14:27,040 the challenge was to introduce breaks in the DNA 222 00:14:27,083 --> 00:14:31,000 at places where you wanted to alter the code. 223 00:14:31,044 --> 00:14:35,265 -How were we gonna do that? 224 00:14:35,309 --> 00:14:37,615 We need something that cuts only one gene 225 00:14:37,659 --> 00:14:40,575 out of the, you know, 25,000 that we have. 226 00:14:44,187 --> 00:14:49,149 -There were just such serious blocks in the way. 227 00:14:49,192 --> 00:14:52,456 So it looked like it was gonna be a long road 228 00:14:52,500 --> 00:14:55,459 and that's what changed 229 00:14:55,503 --> 00:14:57,505 and that came sort of overnight. 230 00:15:04,425 --> 00:15:07,602 David's doctor told me, "Just hold on. 231 00:15:07,645 --> 00:15:10,561 There's something coming." 232 00:15:12,999 --> 00:15:14,261 -When I first heard about it, 233 00:15:14,304 --> 00:15:15,697 I was at a conference in New York, 234 00:15:15,740 --> 00:15:18,613 and it was a very strange conference of futurists. 235 00:15:18,656 --> 00:15:20,180 It was put on by a Russian guy 236 00:15:20,223 --> 00:15:22,051 whose ambition is to download his brain 237 00:15:22,095 --> 00:15:23,661 and become an android who lives forever. 238 00:15:23,705 --> 00:15:26,447 In this future, people will be young, beautiful. 239 00:15:26,490 --> 00:15:29,406 They will have multiple bodies, not only just one. 240 00:15:29,450 --> 00:15:31,234 -But they had a lot of good people there, 241 00:15:31,278 --> 00:15:33,236 including an important geneticist from Harvard, 242 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,109 George Church, and I remember him saying, 243 00:15:36,152 --> 00:15:38,546 "Remember this word: CRISPR." 244 00:15:41,462 --> 00:15:43,986 It's like, you know, in "The Graduate," plastics. 245 00:15:44,030 --> 00:15:46,597 Remember the word CRISPR. 246 00:15:46,641 --> 00:15:49,078 This is going to allow human genome engineering 247 00:15:49,122 --> 00:15:52,038 on a unprecedented scale. 248 00:16:05,790 --> 00:16:07,749 -How old is CRISPR? 249 00:16:07,792 --> 00:16:09,185 Oh, in terms of millions of years? 250 00:16:09,229 --> 00:16:11,274 -Yeah. -Oh. 251 00:16:11,318 --> 00:16:13,407 I mean, 252 00:16:13,450 --> 00:16:17,367 probably...billions. 253 00:17:37,491 --> 00:17:39,493 How you say even? 254 00:17:58,555 --> 00:18:01,732 -Well, I'll tell you the story that I know. 255 00:18:01,776 --> 00:18:05,736 Microbial genome sequencing started sometime in the 1990s. 256 00:18:05,780 --> 00:18:07,738 What does that mean? 257 00:18:07,782 --> 00:18:11,829 See--okay, so unraveling the DNA code of organisms of life. 258 00:18:11,873 --> 00:18:14,658 It's a relatively recent part of biology, 259 00:18:14,702 --> 00:18:17,574 and in the late 1990s, people started to turn their attention 260 00:18:17,618 --> 00:18:19,794 to the sequencing of microbial genomes. 261 00:18:24,799 --> 00:18:27,845 They're amazingly highly evolved entities 262 00:18:27,889 --> 00:18:32,154 that just chose a different way of surviving in the world 263 00:18:32,198 --> 00:18:34,809 than the cells that became us. 264 00:19:56,020 --> 00:19:59,502 Clustered regularly interspaced 265 00:19:59,546 --> 00:20:02,418 short palindromic repeats. 266 00:20:07,989 --> 00:20:09,643 -There really wasn't much precedence 267 00:20:09,686 --> 00:20:13,255 for anything like this in the DNA of living things, 268 00:20:13,299 --> 00:20:14,735 and when you see something unusual, 269 00:20:14,778 --> 00:20:16,693 you automatically assume that it's interesting. 270 00:20:16,737 --> 00:20:18,608 That's just how science works. 271 00:20:21,002 --> 00:20:22,873 -CRISPR is actually clustered 272 00:20:22,917 --> 00:20:25,746 regularly interspaced palindromic repeats, 273 00:20:25,789 --> 00:20:29,445 and so it's actually named for the repeats. 274 00:20:29,489 --> 00:20:31,273 But what was really interesting 275 00:20:31,317 --> 00:20:34,320 were these sequences in between 276 00:20:34,363 --> 00:20:36,757 that were completely enigmatic. 277 00:20:37,671 --> 00:20:40,369 -Spacers. 278 00:20:40,413 --> 00:20:42,371 -And each spacer was different. 279 00:20:47,333 --> 00:20:49,465 Never seen anything like this before. 280 00:20:50,684 --> 00:20:53,861 Where the hell come these sequences from? 281 00:21:06,569 --> 00:21:07,875 I- have my own way of kind of 282 00:21:07,918 --> 00:21:09,355 telling the story in short form, 283 00:21:09,398 --> 00:21:12,488 is, I show this article from 2007, right, 284 00:21:12,532 --> 00:21:14,403 five years before anybody was talking about CRISPR, 285 00:21:14,447 --> 00:21:17,058 and it's this headline from a yogurt company saying, 286 00:21:17,101 --> 00:21:19,278 "Holy grail is discovered." 287 00:21:23,020 --> 00:21:25,588 And what was this yogurt company's holy grail? 288 00:21:25,632 --> 00:21:28,939 It was CRISPR. It was CRISPR. 289 00:21:31,768 --> 00:21:33,640 When did you get your CRISPR license plate? 290 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,992 -The first one I got back in the days in Wisconsin, 291 00:21:38,035 --> 00:21:39,776 and when I first moved to North Carolina... 292 00:21:39,820 --> 00:21:42,039 One of the first things I did 293 00:21:42,083 --> 00:21:44,085 was make sure I still had my CRISPR rights 294 00:21:44,128 --> 00:21:45,826 with my CRISPR mobile. 295 00:21:48,176 --> 00:21:49,699 People were like, 296 00:21:49,743 --> 00:21:51,353 "Have you heard about this CRISPR thing?" And I'm like, 297 00:21:51,397 --> 00:21:52,789 "Dude, like, I've heard of this CRISPR thing for ten years. 298 00:21:52,833 --> 00:21:53,877 Like, what the hell are you talking about?" 299 00:22:00,841 --> 00:22:03,365 -Danisco is a company that sells microbes 300 00:22:03,409 --> 00:22:05,019 to people who want to make food. 301 00:22:05,062 --> 00:22:09,371 A lot of foods are produced using bacteria, and-- 302 00:22:09,415 --> 00:22:11,765 yogurt, for example. 303 00:22:11,808 --> 00:22:14,463 Rodolphe was trying to work out how to deal 304 00:22:14,507 --> 00:22:17,423 with the problem of his bacterial cultures 305 00:22:17,466 --> 00:22:21,818 suddenly dying because of viral infections. 306 00:22:21,862 --> 00:22:23,603 Most people don't wake up in the morning and think about 307 00:22:23,646 --> 00:22:25,822 how bacteria defend themselves against viruses. 308 00:22:25,866 --> 00:22:27,607 It's just not on their... 309 00:22:27,650 --> 00:22:29,478 sort of front and center in people's agenda, 310 00:22:29,522 --> 00:22:30,871 but it should be. 311 00:22:35,658 --> 00:22:39,009 -Viruses are very simple lean machines. 312 00:22:39,053 --> 00:22:41,664 They have one job to do: 313 00:22:41,708 --> 00:22:44,145 look for a host, take the host over, and multiply. 314 00:22:44,188 --> 00:22:47,191 That's it. 315 00:22:47,235 --> 00:22:50,499 -The virus will attach to the surface, 316 00:22:50,543 --> 00:22:53,894 and then it will inject its genetic material. 317 00:22:58,159 --> 00:23:00,988 It hijacks the cell and use the cell 318 00:23:01,031 --> 00:23:03,556 just as a factory of new viruses. 319 00:23:08,648 --> 00:23:12,042 And then it's over. 320 00:23:12,086 --> 00:23:14,523 It's over for the cell. 321 00:23:18,745 --> 00:23:20,094 This is when people 322 00:23:20,137 --> 00:23:21,748 call companies like Danisco and say, 323 00:23:21,791 --> 00:23:23,663 "You sold us a culture that's not working. 324 00:23:23,706 --> 00:23:25,621 We want our money back." 325 00:23:30,496 --> 00:23:33,542 But there's a small subset of the population 326 00:23:33,586 --> 00:23:36,415 that survives the viral attack. 327 00:23:38,242 --> 00:23:41,202 We don't know why they make it, but they make it. 328 00:23:41,245 --> 00:23:43,030 They become resistant. 329 00:23:44,988 --> 00:23:46,642 At that time, 330 00:23:46,686 --> 00:23:48,078 we still don't know what CRISPR is or what it does, 331 00:23:48,122 --> 00:23:50,429 so there's no assumption that CRISPR is involved. 332 00:23:52,909 --> 00:23:56,913 Then what we do is, we take the survivor that made it, 333 00:23:56,957 --> 00:23:59,046 and then we check its DNA. 334 00:24:01,962 --> 00:24:04,921 The DNA sequence had changed. 335 00:24:24,811 --> 00:24:28,031 -And now it's immune. 336 00:24:28,075 --> 00:24:29,685 -So now scientists have a clue, 337 00:24:29,729 --> 00:24:31,078 and, you know, at this point, of course, 338 00:24:31,121 --> 00:24:32,819 you've sort of put your Sherlock Holmes hat on, 339 00:24:32,862 --> 00:24:35,169 you take in your virtual pipe, and you go, 340 00:24:35,212 --> 00:24:36,257 "What are these clues telling us?" 341 00:24:38,694 --> 00:24:42,959 -We do the experiment five different times, 342 00:24:43,003 --> 00:24:47,834 and consistently, the bacteria acquired a spacer 343 00:24:47,877 --> 00:24:50,793 that contains a sequence from the virus 344 00:24:50,837 --> 00:24:52,665 and became resistant. 345 00:24:57,147 --> 00:24:59,802 So what if I take it away? 346 00:24:59,846 --> 00:25:02,979 You lose the resistance. 347 00:25:03,023 --> 00:25:05,547 Without that little piece of DNA, 348 00:25:05,591 --> 00:25:08,811 the microbial cell, the bacterial cell, will die, 349 00:25:08,855 --> 00:25:10,204 and if it had it, it would survive. 350 00:25:10,247 --> 00:25:12,119 Oh, that was like-- that was like, 351 00:25:12,162 --> 00:25:14,817 "We got it." 352 00:25:14,861 --> 00:25:17,777 -CRISPR is an immune system. 353 00:25:20,693 --> 00:25:23,565 What an idea, a piece of the genome of your predator 354 00:25:23,609 --> 00:25:26,046 now stuck in your genome so you can recognize it in the future. 355 00:25:36,186 --> 00:25:39,146 That was really fantastic. 356 00:25:43,629 --> 00:25:45,021 -At the time, you know, 357 00:25:45,065 --> 00:25:48,851 it's useful in manufacturing cultures 358 00:25:48,895 --> 00:25:52,594 that are resistant to viruses, 359 00:25:52,638 --> 00:25:54,901 and it's extremely valuable to Danisco, you know? 360 00:25:54,944 --> 00:25:57,207 But... 361 00:25:57,251 --> 00:25:59,601 but we don't know what the future holds... 362 00:25:59,645 --> 00:26:02,299 We have no idea how useful another's technology 363 00:26:02,343 --> 00:26:03,605 is gonna be or pan out in the end. 364 00:26:10,743 --> 00:26:12,396 -I think I first heard about it 365 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,399 when I had coffee with Jill Banfield, 366 00:26:15,443 --> 00:26:17,053 my colleague here at Berkeley, 367 00:26:17,097 --> 00:26:19,839 at the Free Speech Movement Cafe, 368 00:26:19,882 --> 00:26:21,971 classic Berkeley cafe. 369 00:26:22,015 --> 00:26:24,060 One thing they'll write on my tombstone is, 370 00:26:24,104 --> 00:26:27,107 "Told Jennifer Doudna about CRISPR-Cas." 371 00:26:27,150 --> 00:26:30,023 Like, that will be the sum of my life. 372 00:26:34,505 --> 00:26:35,898 -I love things that not a lot of people 373 00:26:35,942 --> 00:26:37,770 are paying attention to, 374 00:26:37,813 --> 00:26:39,728 which certainly CRISPR was in its early days. 375 00:26:39,772 --> 00:26:41,251 Not anymore, but-- but, you know, 376 00:26:41,295 --> 00:26:43,079 in the early days, it was like that. 377 00:26:43,123 --> 00:26:45,081 But then you always ask yourself, 378 00:26:45,125 --> 00:26:47,344 "Huh, is everybody else just a lot smarter than me 379 00:26:47,388 --> 00:26:49,216 and they've figured out that this is a--you know, 380 00:26:49,259 --> 00:26:52,393 a dead path and..." 381 00:26:52,436 --> 00:26:54,874 So we've got the antibody tethered to Cas9. 382 00:26:54,917 --> 00:26:57,703 It's finding the T cell-specific antigen. 383 00:26:57,746 --> 00:27:01,097 -We're biochemists in the lab. 384 00:27:01,141 --> 00:27:04,927 We study the way molecules work. 385 00:27:04,971 --> 00:27:07,234 We try to isolate them from 386 00:27:07,277 --> 00:27:10,846 all of the other pieces and parts of the cell. 387 00:27:10,890 --> 00:27:12,805 We love to ask, 388 00:27:12,848 --> 00:27:17,113 "Well, what are the essential parts of this little machine?" 389 00:27:17,157 --> 00:27:20,116 In nature, what CRISPR systems are doing is, 390 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,771 they're giving bacteria immunity to viruses, 391 00:27:22,815 --> 00:27:24,773 so they're protecting them from viruses. 392 00:27:33,826 --> 00:27:36,132 -When an invader shows up, 393 00:27:36,176 --> 00:27:40,310 the bacterium has a way to store a small bit 394 00:27:40,354 --> 00:27:43,705 of the invader's DNA in its own DNA. 395 00:27:48,318 --> 00:27:50,494 When the invader comes back, 396 00:27:50,538 --> 00:27:53,193 the bacterium makes a copy, 397 00:27:53,236 --> 00:27:57,719 like a little "Most Wanted" poster of that spacer, 398 00:27:57,763 --> 00:27:59,373 and gives it to the marvelous machine 399 00:27:59,416 --> 00:28:03,159 at the heart of CRISPR, 400 00:28:03,203 --> 00:28:06,685 this extraordinary protein that we call Cas9. 401 00:28:08,904 --> 00:28:11,690 Cas9 is truly wondrous. 402 00:28:13,866 --> 00:28:17,739 When Cas9 polices the intercellular neighborhood 403 00:28:17,783 --> 00:28:21,917 for invasions, it literally carries a copy 404 00:28:21,961 --> 00:28:26,226 of that "Most Wanted" poster with it, 405 00:28:26,269 --> 00:28:30,273 asking everyone that comes in, "Excuse me. 406 00:28:30,317 --> 00:28:33,537 Do you contain an exact match 407 00:28:33,581 --> 00:28:37,063 to this little 'Most Wanted' poster that I'm carrying? 408 00:28:37,106 --> 00:28:39,718 Yes? Then I'll cut you." 409 00:28:43,896 --> 00:28:46,202 -The thing about Cas9 that struck me at the time 410 00:28:46,246 --> 00:28:48,378 was that, you know, fundamentally, 411 00:28:48,422 --> 00:28:51,991 this thing was a programmable protein 412 00:28:52,034 --> 00:28:56,038 that finds and cuts DNA. 413 00:28:58,562 --> 00:29:02,001 As a tool, right, you could immediately see 414 00:29:02,044 --> 00:29:05,004 a lot of uses for something like that. 415 00:29:05,047 --> 00:29:07,310 I will never forget 416 00:29:07,354 --> 00:29:10,879 reading the last paragraph of Jennifer Doudna's 417 00:29:10,923 --> 00:29:14,578 and Emmanuelle Charpentier's deservedly-- 418 00:29:14,622 --> 00:29:18,060 "immortal" is a strong word, so I'm gonna use it carefully-- 419 00:29:18,104 --> 00:29:21,063 immortal science paper 420 00:29:21,107 --> 00:29:24,414 in which they describe that Cas9 can be directed. 421 00:29:33,032 --> 00:29:36,600 Cas9 cuts DNA based on an instruction that it carries, 422 00:29:36,644 --> 00:29:40,604 and that instruction is a molecule of RNA 423 00:29:40,648 --> 00:29:45,305 that matches perfectly the DNA of the invader. 424 00:29:45,348 --> 00:29:49,178 -RNA, I think about it as DNA's chemical cousin. 425 00:29:49,222 --> 00:29:51,920 Like DNA, it has four letters, 426 00:29:51,964 --> 00:29:54,444 and they can form pairs 427 00:29:54,488 --> 00:29:59,275 with matching letters in DNA. 428 00:29:59,319 --> 00:30:02,365 The letters in the RNA allow Cas9 429 00:30:02,409 --> 00:30:06,456 to find a unique DNA sequence. 430 00:30:06,500 --> 00:30:08,589 Bacteria were programming this thing all the time 431 00:30:08,632 --> 00:30:11,287 with different viral sequences and then using it 432 00:30:11,331 --> 00:30:14,290 to find and cut and destroy those viruses. 433 00:30:17,946 --> 00:30:20,296 But because it's using these little RNA molecules, 434 00:30:20,340 --> 00:30:25,301 those can easily be exchanged. 435 00:30:25,345 --> 00:30:28,478 RNA molecules are trivial to make 436 00:30:28,522 --> 00:30:31,830 in a molecular biology lab or order from a company. 437 00:30:34,702 --> 00:30:37,574 And I can cut any DNA I want just by changing this-- 438 00:30:37,618 --> 00:30:39,576 this little piece of RNA. 439 00:30:42,710 --> 00:30:45,104 It was clearly a useful tool, 440 00:30:45,147 --> 00:30:47,367 and I--initially I was thinking about it that way, right? 441 00:30:47,410 --> 00:30:48,934 'Cause, I mean, again, I'm a biochemist, right? 442 00:30:48,977 --> 00:30:51,240 I was thinking about it as a tool. 443 00:30:51,284 --> 00:30:53,329 I was thinking about all the cool experiments 444 00:30:53,373 --> 00:30:54,983 you could now do with this tool, right? 445 00:30:55,027 --> 00:30:56,463 I was thinking about that. 446 00:30:56,506 --> 00:30:58,465 I wasn't thinking about, 447 00:30:58,508 --> 00:31:02,425 oh, my gosh, I mean, this is a tool that, 448 00:31:02,469 --> 00:31:05,298 you know, it fundamentally allows us 449 00:31:05,341 --> 00:31:07,517 to change our relationship with nature. 450 00:31:07,561 --> 00:31:11,608 It actually allows us to change human evolution 451 00:31:11,652 --> 00:31:13,480 if we want to, right? 452 00:31:13,523 --> 00:31:15,656 It's that--it's that profound. 453 00:31:23,011 --> 00:31:26,536 In my left hand here, I have purified Cas9 nuclease, 454 00:31:26,580 --> 00:31:30,062 and in my right hand here, I have a guide RNA, 455 00:31:30,105 --> 00:31:33,021 and so CRISPR essentially is the combination 456 00:31:33,065 --> 00:31:36,068 of these two ingredients. 457 00:31:36,111 --> 00:31:38,244 It's actually millions of Cas9 molecules, 458 00:31:38,287 --> 00:31:42,944 and this is millions of RNA molecules. 459 00:31:42,988 --> 00:31:46,513 I have to say it didn't immediately hit me 460 00:31:46,556 --> 00:31:48,732 until I started seeing the data 461 00:31:48,776 --> 00:31:53,433 that this could be an extraordinary transformation. 462 00:31:53,476 --> 00:31:57,306 You know, it was real. 463 00:31:57,350 --> 00:32:01,615 You can actually use CRISPR in humans to change DNA. 464 00:32:03,660 --> 00:32:06,098 You can actually do it. 465 00:32:08,448 --> 00:32:12,234 Here's a copy of a human gene. 466 00:32:12,278 --> 00:32:16,978 You give it to Cas9 and put it inside human cells. 467 00:32:17,022 --> 00:32:20,286 It runs away, finds that DNA, and cuts it. 468 00:32:23,115 --> 00:32:27,423 -Before CRISPR, we were getting 1% to 2% correction. 469 00:32:27,467 --> 00:32:30,339 We're now up to 50% to 80% of the cells. 470 00:32:32,646 --> 00:32:34,126 This could really work. 471 00:32:34,169 --> 00:32:39,696 This could really cure a patient. 472 00:32:39,740 --> 00:32:42,351 -I think it's gonna help a lot of people, 473 00:32:42,395 --> 00:32:44,440 not just people with sickle cell, 474 00:32:44,484 --> 00:32:49,010 'cause I know they're working on it for other things. 475 00:32:49,054 --> 00:32:50,620 And I know so many other people 476 00:32:50,664 --> 00:32:53,188 that have--that have things like this, 477 00:32:53,232 --> 00:32:55,321 like--like my friend. 478 00:32:55,364 --> 00:32:59,020 He...uh, had leukemia. 479 00:32:59,064 --> 00:33:02,458 He actually--he didn't make it out of the hospital. 480 00:33:02,502 --> 00:33:06,375 If he had it just a little bit later, 481 00:33:06,419 --> 00:33:08,551 of course, he probably could have been cured of that 482 00:33:08,595 --> 00:33:11,119 'cause that's what they're working on. 483 00:33:20,172 --> 00:33:22,478 -CRISPR has, really, the ability 484 00:33:22,522 --> 00:33:25,786 to recognize and to target any piece of DNA 485 00:33:25,829 --> 00:33:27,788 in any type of cell and organism. 486 00:33:27,831 --> 00:33:31,270 It's really a universal tool. 487 00:33:31,313 --> 00:33:33,576 It's often described as a kind of Swiss Army Knife. 488 00:33:49,810 --> 00:33:51,246 -We have thousands of customers 489 00:33:51,290 --> 00:33:53,466 who are working with CRISPR in a wide variety 490 00:33:53,509 --> 00:33:54,858 of organisms, pretty much any organism 491 00:33:54,902 --> 00:33:57,078 you can think of from butterflies 492 00:33:57,122 --> 00:34:01,300 to dogs to horses to wheat to corn. 493 00:34:01,343 --> 00:34:03,389 We have a design tool online. 494 00:34:06,740 --> 00:34:10,874 Specify a gene that you're looking to knock out. 495 00:34:10,918 --> 00:34:12,528 You can specify the types of edit 496 00:34:12,572 --> 00:34:14,617 that you're looking to do. 497 00:34:14,661 --> 00:34:16,619 You swipe your credit card, and a few days later, 498 00:34:16,663 --> 00:34:18,099 a couple tubes of all the materials 499 00:34:18,143 --> 00:34:20,188 that you need show up at your door. 500 00:34:20,232 --> 00:34:24,888 Obviously we like to validate the researchers' authenticity 501 00:34:24,932 --> 00:34:28,544 and credibility with regard to their institution. 502 00:34:28,588 --> 00:34:29,893 Meaning you're not just shipping it off? 503 00:34:29,937 --> 00:34:31,417 Correct. We don't ship to just anyone. 504 00:34:31,460 --> 00:34:32,635 That's correct. 505 00:34:40,426 --> 00:34:43,211 -The analogy I like is automobiles. 506 00:34:43,255 --> 00:34:45,866 There were cars before there were Model Ts, 507 00:34:45,909 --> 00:34:49,478 but they were expensive and they broke down all the time. 508 00:34:49,522 --> 00:34:52,307 Ford comes out with the Model T, and, suddenly, 509 00:34:52,351 --> 00:34:55,441 it's cheap, and it's reliable. 510 00:34:55,484 --> 00:34:57,878 Pretty soon, everybody's got a car. 511 00:35:44,794 --> 00:35:48,494 -CRISPR gives us the chance to make precise, 512 00:35:48,537 --> 00:35:52,324 targeted changes in the DNA of any living organism. 513 00:35:54,413 --> 00:35:56,676 It's a power to change the biosphere. 514 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,852 That's what makes CRISPR revolutionary. 515 00:36:42,809 --> 00:36:46,682 Can you just sort of describe where we are right now? 516 00:36:49,294 --> 00:36:50,512 -Yeah, yeah, yeah. -Oh. 517 00:37:14,493 --> 00:37:17,409 -The field is called xenotransplantation, 518 00:37:17,452 --> 00:37:21,326 transplantation of an organ from one species to the next. 519 00:37:21,369 --> 00:37:24,416 These things have actually been tried a lot, 520 00:37:24,459 --> 00:37:26,287 and some of them are pretty weird, 521 00:37:26,331 --> 00:37:28,594 like people were-- were, you know, 522 00:37:28,637 --> 00:37:31,336 in the early 1800s, that kind of stuff, 523 00:37:31,379 --> 00:37:33,729 they were trying to transplant monkey testes 524 00:37:33,773 --> 00:37:37,385 into men to make them more virile. 525 00:37:37,429 --> 00:37:38,908 So it's a--you know, conceptually, 526 00:37:38,952 --> 00:37:41,389 people have been trying this for a long time, 527 00:37:41,433 --> 00:37:44,958 but scientifically, this field is probably about 20 years old. 528 00:37:47,961 --> 00:37:49,789 Whether we like to believe or not, 529 00:37:49,832 --> 00:37:52,444 we are very similar to the pig. 530 00:37:52,487 --> 00:37:54,054 This pig, this pig, this pig, 531 00:37:54,097 --> 00:37:56,578 all the organs in these pigs have been modified 532 00:37:56,622 --> 00:37:57,927 very, very slightly. 533 00:37:57,971 --> 00:37:59,929 -They tried it 20 years ago. 534 00:37:59,973 --> 00:38:02,758 Novartis had had a billion-dollar investment in it 535 00:38:02,802 --> 00:38:05,718 sort of gracefully retreated. 536 00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:11,027 They did--they just didn't have the technology. 537 00:38:11,071 --> 00:38:14,030 Without the CRISPRs, can't do it. 538 00:38:16,859 --> 00:38:19,601 -Luhan Yang and her team, 539 00:38:19,645 --> 00:38:22,778 they started as a ragtag team of scientists 540 00:38:22,822 --> 00:38:25,955 in my academic lab, and then they went to a ragtag team 541 00:38:25,999 --> 00:38:29,611 in the basement of a startup incubator. 542 00:38:31,091 --> 00:38:33,485 Nice to meet you, hey. 543 00:38:33,528 --> 00:38:35,095 Happy Halloween... 544 00:38:35,138 --> 00:38:38,925 You know, I dressed up today. How are you? 545 00:38:38,968 --> 00:38:41,101 Can you see anything? 546 00:38:41,144 --> 00:38:42,711 Kind of. Something, not everything... 547 00:40:12,975 --> 00:40:14,890 -We have a revolution going on. 548 00:40:14,934 --> 00:40:16,239 We've never had a revolution like this. 549 00:40:16,283 --> 00:40:19,025 Closest we've come is maybe the Internet 550 00:40:19,068 --> 00:40:20,679 and computer revolution, 551 00:40:20,722 --> 00:40:23,769 and that took us kind of unaware. 552 00:40:23,812 --> 00:40:27,120 We do a lot of iteration of the pig production. 553 00:40:27,163 --> 00:40:28,861 -How are the pigs coming along? 554 00:40:31,298 --> 00:40:32,778 So, uh... 555 00:42:35,857 --> 00:42:37,816 This is Aldous Huxley, 556 00:42:37,859 --> 00:42:40,906 a man haunted by a vision of hell on Earth. 557 00:42:40,949 --> 00:42:45,084 Mr. Huxley 27 years ago wrote "Brave New World." 558 00:42:45,127 --> 00:42:48,391 Today Mr. Huxley says that his fictional world of horror 559 00:42:48,435 --> 00:42:52,221 is probably just around the corner for all of us. 560 00:42:59,968 --> 00:43:02,057 -I first read "Brave New World" 561 00:43:02,101 --> 00:43:05,757 in a literature class in high school, 562 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,063 and, yeah, it was startling, 563 00:43:08,107 --> 00:43:11,240 and, yeah, it was provocative, 564 00:43:11,284 --> 00:43:13,416 but I reread it recently, 565 00:43:13,460 --> 00:43:19,858 and I was startled by how a book written in 1932 566 00:43:19,901 --> 00:43:22,861 could have the foresight to predict 567 00:43:22,904 --> 00:43:25,124 in vitro fertilization. 568 00:43:33,132 --> 00:43:35,917 Now, of course, it went beyond it. 569 00:43:35,961 --> 00:43:38,137 It told a story where human beings 570 00:43:38,180 --> 00:43:39,921 were literally manufactured 571 00:43:39,965 --> 00:43:42,315 to play specific roles in society. 572 00:43:47,059 --> 00:43:50,279 It was so sobering to me because 573 00:43:50,323 --> 00:43:54,283 CRISPR makes that original worry 574 00:43:54,327 --> 00:43:58,200 about engineering human heredity actually feasible. 575 00:44:08,733 --> 00:44:10,952 -We mustn't be caught by surprise 576 00:44:10,996 --> 00:44:12,780 by our own advancing technology. 577 00:44:12,824 --> 00:44:14,782 This has happened again and again in history 578 00:44:14,826 --> 00:44:16,741 where technology has advanced 579 00:44:16,784 --> 00:44:19,439 and this changes social conditions, 580 00:44:19,482 --> 00:44:21,702 and suddenly, people have found themselves 581 00:44:21,746 --> 00:44:23,791 in a situation which they didn't foresee 582 00:44:23,835 --> 00:44:26,664 and doing all sorts of things they didn't really want to do. 583 00:44:29,057 --> 00:44:31,146 -There is no question in my mind that 584 00:44:31,190 --> 00:44:32,887 as this field advances, 585 00:44:32,931 --> 00:44:35,760 people will be able to 586 00:44:35,803 --> 00:44:38,719 order a change in their genetic makeup 587 00:44:38,763 --> 00:44:41,940 to create an outcome of interest to them 588 00:44:41,983 --> 00:44:45,900 in their metabolism, in their appearance, 589 00:44:45,944 --> 00:44:48,773 in principal, potentially, in who they are as people, 590 00:44:48,816 --> 00:44:52,341 personality changes. 591 00:44:52,385 --> 00:44:53,908 And, again, we have to be delicate 592 00:44:53,952 --> 00:44:57,042 to not cross into science fiction territory. 593 00:44:57,085 --> 00:45:00,349 -We know that we could engineer a single gene, 594 00:45:00,393 --> 00:45:03,526 myostatin, in a way that could potentially 595 00:45:03,570 --> 00:45:05,180 make us all more muscular, 596 00:45:05,224 --> 00:45:08,749 but should we make that universally available? 597 00:45:08,793 --> 00:45:10,055 They discovered that there are people 598 00:45:10,098 --> 00:45:12,492 who can go by on four hours of sleep. 599 00:45:12,535 --> 00:45:14,363 What would I give for that mutation? 600 00:45:14,407 --> 00:45:16,844 One gene, one change, 601 00:45:16,888 --> 00:45:19,804 four hours of sleep, no problem. 602 00:45:19,847 --> 00:45:24,852 So should this be-- I don't know, 603 00:45:24,896 --> 00:45:26,898 a job requirement for air traffic controllers? 604 00:45:29,161 --> 00:45:31,859 Do I want the world to go there? 605 00:45:37,996 --> 00:45:41,086 There are people who feel no pain. 606 00:45:41,129 --> 00:45:42,870 This was discovered by studying 607 00:45:42,914 --> 00:45:45,264 a 14-year-old boy in Pakistan 608 00:45:45,307 --> 00:45:47,919 who felt no pain, and guess what he did? 609 00:45:47,962 --> 00:45:49,355 He performed street theater. 610 00:45:51,270 --> 00:45:53,794 He died before his 14th birthday. 611 00:45:53,838 --> 00:45:55,535 He jumped, for money, off a house roof. 612 00:45:55,578 --> 00:45:58,016 He knew it would be painless. 613 00:45:58,059 --> 00:46:02,194 The study of his DNA revealed he has a mutation in one gene. 614 00:46:02,237 --> 00:46:05,414 It makes a protein that transmits the pain signal 615 00:46:05,458 --> 00:46:08,896 from the periphery-- your finger, or your skin-- 616 00:46:08,940 --> 00:46:10,419 through the spine to your brain. 617 00:46:10,463 --> 00:46:12,334 You get rid of that gene, 618 00:46:12,378 --> 00:46:14,597 you cannot transmit the signal. You feel no pain. 619 00:46:14,641 --> 00:46:16,251 Why? 620 00:46:16,295 --> 00:46:19,385 Well, I'll give you a legitimate reason. 621 00:46:19,428 --> 00:46:21,213 Pain due to cancer is terrible, 622 00:46:21,256 --> 00:46:22,692 especially if it's terminal cancer 623 00:46:22,736 --> 00:46:24,390 and we know a person has months to live. 624 00:46:24,433 --> 00:46:26,609 Why not get rid of that gene? 625 00:46:26,653 --> 00:46:29,438 And I'm sure this will be. I am surethis will be. 626 00:46:29,482 --> 00:46:32,354 We will have gene editing of that gene 627 00:46:32,398 --> 00:46:35,140 to treat cancer pain. 628 00:46:35,183 --> 00:46:37,838 Now, 629 00:46:37,882 --> 00:46:40,841 do I want a scenario where there are parts of the world 630 00:46:40,885 --> 00:46:45,019 where special forces soldiers are made immune to torture? 631 00:46:52,505 --> 00:46:53,941 -I don't think my job is that different 632 00:46:53,985 --> 00:46:57,162 than what scientists do. 633 00:46:57,205 --> 00:46:58,859 There's a lot of kind of hunting around, 634 00:46:58,903 --> 00:47:00,469 hunting and pecking, you know, 635 00:47:00,513 --> 00:47:02,080 looking under things, 636 00:47:02,123 --> 00:47:05,039 turning over stones, 637 00:47:05,083 --> 00:47:06,519 and then eventually, you know, 638 00:47:06,562 --> 00:47:07,955 you kind of get on the scent of something, 639 00:47:07,999 --> 00:47:10,828 and then that's when the fun starts. 640 00:47:13,526 --> 00:47:14,788 Before science gets published, 641 00:47:14,832 --> 00:47:18,052 it circulates among scientists. 642 00:47:18,096 --> 00:47:19,924 The papers go out for review. 643 00:47:19,967 --> 00:47:21,316 Someone passes it to somebody else. 644 00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,666 Like, they have a certain circulation, 645 00:47:23,710 --> 00:47:26,104 and so I'd gotten onto the trail of these papers 646 00:47:26,147 --> 00:47:29,063 coming out of China. 647 00:47:29,107 --> 00:47:30,978 This was the first case where someone had said about, 648 00:47:31,022 --> 00:47:33,154 you know, "I'm gonna use CRISPR, 649 00:47:33,198 --> 00:47:38,159 and I'm gonna modify a human embryo." 650 00:47:38,203 --> 00:47:42,250 They had knocked out CCR5. 651 00:47:42,294 --> 00:47:44,905 This is a receptor that, if you don't have it, 652 00:47:44,949 --> 00:47:47,212 you can't get infected with HIV. 653 00:47:47,255 --> 00:47:49,214 But think about what they were proposing. 654 00:47:49,257 --> 00:47:51,607 They said, "We're gonna make someone who's immune to HIV." 655 00:47:55,394 --> 00:47:57,004 Once I started digging into it, 656 00:47:57,048 --> 00:47:59,006 I found more examples of people 657 00:47:59,050 --> 00:48:03,315 that were thinking along these lines. 658 00:48:03,358 --> 00:48:05,360 John Zhang runs the third or fourth biggest 659 00:48:05,404 --> 00:48:08,189 fertility clinic in the country, 660 00:48:08,233 --> 00:48:12,977 and then he started a company called Darwin Life. 661 00:48:13,020 --> 00:48:14,587 He said that he was enthusiastic about 662 00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:16,719 the whole idea of designer babies. 663 00:48:16,763 --> 00:48:18,243 He basically said that, 664 00:48:18,286 --> 00:48:21,986 "Of course. That's the whole point." 665 00:48:22,029 --> 00:48:24,249 There was a company called OvaScience 666 00:48:24,292 --> 00:48:26,207 that I discovered a tape recording 667 00:48:26,251 --> 00:48:28,383 that they had put on their own website of a investor meeting. 668 00:48:28,427 --> 00:48:30,429 -We will be able to correct mutations 669 00:48:30,472 --> 00:48:33,432 before we generate your child. 670 00:48:33,475 --> 00:48:35,042 It may not be 50 years, actually. 671 00:48:35,086 --> 00:48:37,436 It may only be 10, the way things are going. 672 00:48:42,615 --> 00:48:45,444 -I ended up having several dreams 673 00:48:45,487 --> 00:48:48,229 that were very intense for me at the time, 674 00:48:48,273 --> 00:48:50,623 where I walked into a room and a colleague said, 675 00:48:50,666 --> 00:48:52,451 "I want to introduce you to someone, 676 00:48:52,494 --> 00:48:54,496 "and I want you to tell them-- they want to-- 677 00:48:54,540 --> 00:48:56,542 they want to know about CRISPR." 678 00:48:56,585 --> 00:48:59,240 And I walked into this room, and it was-- 679 00:48:59,284 --> 00:49:01,155 there was a silhouette of a chair 680 00:49:01,199 --> 00:49:03,244 with someone sitting with their back to me, 681 00:49:03,288 --> 00:49:07,031 and as they turned around, I realized with horror 682 00:49:07,074 --> 00:49:09,990 that it was Adolf Hitler, you know? 683 00:49:10,034 --> 00:49:14,299 And he leaned over, and he said, 684 00:49:14,342 --> 00:49:18,172 "So tell me all about how Cas9 works." 685 00:49:22,829 --> 00:49:24,396 I remember waking up from that dream 686 00:49:24,439 --> 00:49:27,616 and I was shaking. 687 00:49:27,660 --> 00:49:30,141 And I thought, "Oh, my gosh. I mean, what have I done?" 688 00:49:35,798 --> 00:49:38,627 5 1/2 years ago, it was recognized that 689 00:49:38,671 --> 00:49:42,022 we could take the CRISPR system out of bacteria 690 00:49:42,066 --> 00:49:43,763 and move it first into a test tube 691 00:49:43,806 --> 00:49:46,026 and then into mammalian cells 692 00:49:46,070 --> 00:49:48,637 and use it as a tool for genome editing. 693 00:49:48,681 --> 00:49:53,164 The Cas9 protein is gonna make the cut in the DNA. 694 00:49:53,207 --> 00:49:56,428 We are correcting the sickle mutation 695 00:49:56,471 --> 00:49:59,126 in blood cells. 696 00:49:59,170 --> 00:50:02,651 So if it's a woman, their eggs are not corrected. 697 00:50:02,695 --> 00:50:05,045 If it's a man, the sperm is not corrected. 698 00:50:05,089 --> 00:50:08,309 That change will not get passed along to future generations. 699 00:50:08,353 --> 00:50:09,963 So they will be cured, 700 00:50:10,007 --> 00:50:12,270 but their children might get the disease as well. 701 00:50:12,313 --> 00:50:16,143 Now we need to give the cell another piece of DNA, 702 00:50:16,187 --> 00:50:21,453 except instead of having the T, it has an A. 703 00:50:21,496 --> 00:50:24,499 So why not just do it so that the disease gene 704 00:50:24,543 --> 00:50:27,502 never gets passed along to future generations? 705 00:50:27,546 --> 00:50:29,200 And there's some people out there who think 706 00:50:29,243 --> 00:50:30,766 that's what we should do. 707 00:50:30,810 --> 00:50:34,422 But we may be creating things 708 00:50:34,466 --> 00:50:36,337 that we can't put back into the bottle. 709 00:50:38,731 --> 00:50:41,603 -When we engineer gene changes 710 00:50:41,647 --> 00:50:44,824 into my blood or into my skin, 711 00:50:44,867 --> 00:50:49,394 those gene changes die with me, 712 00:50:49,437 --> 00:50:54,138 but the germ cells, sperm, and eggs, embryos, 713 00:50:54,181 --> 00:50:57,097 those cells are very different. 714 00:50:57,141 --> 00:50:59,839 They're part of what we call, "the germ line." 715 00:50:59,882 --> 00:51:03,712 If we engineer gene changes into my sperm, 716 00:51:03,756 --> 00:51:06,541 they're passed to my son. 717 00:51:06,585 --> 00:51:10,241 They're passed to his son and forever. 718 00:51:15,942 --> 00:51:20,120 My colleagues and I wrote a fairly strongly worded piece 719 00:51:20,164 --> 00:51:23,819 in "Nature" with the fairly unequivocal title 720 00:51:23,863 --> 00:51:28,128 "Do Not Edit the Human Germ Line." 721 00:51:28,172 --> 00:51:32,611 We proposed that there be an unconditional moratorium: 722 00:51:32,654 --> 00:51:34,656 Don't edit human embryos. 723 00:51:34,700 --> 00:51:36,876 Don't use edited sperm and eggs to make human embryos, 724 00:51:36,919 --> 00:51:38,269 just nothing. 725 00:51:40,793 --> 00:51:42,621 We must understand that 726 00:51:42,664 --> 00:51:46,146 when we authorize research on human embryo editing, 727 00:51:46,190 --> 00:51:47,756 we are enabling, ultimately, 728 00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:49,715 human embryo editing for human enhancement. 729 00:51:49,758 --> 00:51:51,325 That's what we're doing. 730 00:51:51,369 --> 00:51:53,588 We're putting the recipe out into the world. 731 00:51:53,632 --> 00:51:55,590 The debate that's being had 732 00:51:55,634 --> 00:51:58,245 is whether society should go in this direction. 733 00:51:58,289 --> 00:52:01,466 Should you be allowed to make 734 00:52:01,509 --> 00:52:03,424 a genetic change into the next generation 735 00:52:03,468 --> 00:52:06,427 that'll then go on to other generations? 736 00:52:06,471 --> 00:52:08,473 The gene pool, 737 00:52:08,516 --> 00:52:10,649 like nature itself, is kind of a common good. 738 00:52:10,692 --> 00:52:13,217 I used to have a T-shirt, and it had a little-- 739 00:52:13,260 --> 00:52:16,394 a guy that was kind of a DNA spiral, right? 740 00:52:16,437 --> 00:52:18,526 But he was the lifeguard and he's blowing a whistle 741 00:52:18,570 --> 00:52:21,442 and he says, "Hey, you, get out of the gene pool!" 742 00:52:21,486 --> 00:52:23,401 I loved that shirt. 743 00:52:26,012 --> 00:52:28,188 -Baby shopping. 744 00:52:28,232 --> 00:52:31,670 Imagine being able to program the IQ of a baby. 745 00:52:33,846 --> 00:52:36,414 Will we be sitting at computer terminals like this one 746 00:52:36,457 --> 00:52:38,764 punching up the traits we would like in our children, 747 00:52:38,807 --> 00:52:41,419 like the shape of their faces or the color of their eyes? 748 00:52:43,943 --> 00:52:46,293 Well, you know, the fear that everybody focuses on most 749 00:52:46,337 --> 00:52:48,252 is just this sort of designer baby business. 750 00:52:50,732 --> 00:52:53,387 -We're turning reproduction into production. 751 00:52:53,431 --> 00:52:55,955 We're turning children into consumer products. 752 00:52:55,998 --> 00:52:58,914 -Every time there's a new technology, 753 00:52:58,958 --> 00:53:01,265 we hear the same concerns. 754 00:53:01,308 --> 00:53:02,875 If there's a market for cloning, 755 00:53:02,918 --> 00:53:04,572 there is no force on Earth 756 00:53:04,616 --> 00:53:09,316 that will keep buyer and seller apart. 757 00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:11,840 Perhaps Saddam Hussein would like to give birth to himself. 758 00:53:16,715 --> 00:53:20,240 -With CRISPR, even reputable magazines 759 00:53:20,284 --> 00:53:23,374 could not resist the temptation. 760 00:53:23,417 --> 00:53:26,681 The little thing that says "high IQ," 761 00:53:26,725 --> 00:53:28,770 as if we know what intelligence is 762 00:53:28,814 --> 00:53:31,512 let alone how to measure it let alone how to design it. 763 00:53:31,556 --> 00:53:32,992 Why do we keep ignoring the fact 764 00:53:33,035 --> 00:53:35,342 that we've seen the same argument 765 00:53:35,386 --> 00:53:38,258 every decade for the last five decades? 766 00:53:38,302 --> 00:53:42,349 And these nightmares, they haven't come to pass. 767 00:53:48,355 --> 00:53:51,619 We are capable of really evil things, 768 00:53:51,663 --> 00:53:55,493 but we don't need technology to commit evil acts. 769 00:53:55,536 --> 00:53:59,584 If the goal is genocide, if the goal is eugenics, 770 00:53:59,627 --> 00:54:02,500 if the goal is discrimination, 771 00:54:02,543 --> 00:54:05,894 there will be another way to do it and it will be found. 772 00:54:05,938 --> 00:54:07,896 I kind of divide the world into the bio-optimists 773 00:54:07,940 --> 00:54:09,550 and the bio-pessimists. 774 00:54:11,944 --> 00:54:15,556 -the final frontier. 775 00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:19,691 -I grew up with the original "Star Trek." 776 00:54:19,734 --> 00:54:21,301 I have been a devoted follower 777 00:54:21,345 --> 00:54:23,869 of all of the "Star Treks" since then. 778 00:54:23,912 --> 00:54:27,351 I've read pretty much every "Star Trek" novel. 779 00:54:27,394 --> 00:54:29,396 Don't get me started. 780 00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:31,920 It is a vision of progress 781 00:54:31,964 --> 00:54:35,533 and the potential of science to make life better. 782 00:54:35,576 --> 00:54:37,012 There are other people 783 00:54:37,056 --> 00:54:39,711 who have read the cautionary tales. 784 00:54:39,754 --> 00:54:42,888 -A blade runner's job is to hunt down replicants, 785 00:54:42,931 --> 00:54:46,848 manufactured humans you can't tell from the real thing. 786 00:54:46,892 --> 00:54:48,720 -I don't think the technologies 787 00:54:48,763 --> 00:54:51,505 are inherently good or evil. 788 00:54:51,549 --> 00:54:54,378 The technologies are tools. They are power. 789 00:54:54,421 --> 00:54:57,816 What you do with the power determines if the result 790 00:54:57,859 --> 00:55:01,559 is something that we applaud or something that we deplore. 791 00:55:01,602 --> 00:55:04,779 But it's not the tool that determines the end point. 792 00:55:04,823 --> 00:55:06,868 It's the user. 793 00:55:06,912 --> 00:55:10,959 Now here are 23 representing mother's chromosomes, 794 00:55:11,003 --> 00:55:13,614 23 for father's. 795 00:55:13,658 --> 00:55:16,748 Now we put them together. 796 00:55:20,186 --> 00:55:23,798 -Our way of determining 797 00:55:23,842 --> 00:55:27,149 the inheritance of the next generation 798 00:55:27,193 --> 00:55:28,847 is a lottery. 799 00:55:31,676 --> 00:55:34,069 And it's a perfectly good argument to say, 800 00:55:34,113 --> 00:55:37,638 "I would rather determine it 801 00:55:37,682 --> 00:55:40,467 than take a lottery." 802 00:55:40,511 --> 00:55:41,990 Well, I think the right way to say it is that 803 00:55:42,034 --> 00:55:43,992 sex is for recreation 804 00:55:44,036 --> 00:55:46,995 and science is for procreation. 805 00:55:49,215 --> 00:55:51,086 50 years from now, people may say, like, 806 00:55:51,130 --> 00:55:52,827 "I can't believe those barbaric people 807 00:55:52,871 --> 00:55:54,655 in the early 21st century, 808 00:55:54,699 --> 00:55:56,831 they were having kids this crazy, old-fashioned way. 809 00:55:56,875 --> 00:55:58,137 They were just, like, rolling the dice 810 00:55:58,180 --> 00:56:00,008 with their kids' lives." 811 00:56:03,925 --> 00:56:08,190 We've gone through in vitro fertilization. 812 00:56:08,234 --> 00:56:11,019 We've harvested the eggs. 813 00:56:11,063 --> 00:56:13,500 It's not uncommon to produce 814 00:56:13,544 --> 00:56:17,025 multiple viable embryos. 815 00:56:17,069 --> 00:56:21,595 Which one do you choose? 816 00:56:21,639 --> 00:56:23,597 One possibility is, "Yeah, just--we'll just roll the dice. 817 00:56:23,641 --> 00:56:25,077 We'll just-- I'll just point at one." 818 00:56:28,472 --> 00:56:30,125 Another option would be 819 00:56:30,169 --> 00:56:33,041 I run some fancy genetic tests. 820 00:56:37,263 --> 00:56:40,440 -Pre-implantation genetic diagnosis 821 00:56:40,484 --> 00:56:45,445 is the process of doing genetic tests on an embryo. 822 00:56:45,489 --> 00:56:46,838 When I talk to most people about it, 823 00:56:46,881 --> 00:56:48,796 they think it's science fiction, 824 00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,190 but it was first used clinically in 1990. 825 00:56:54,106 --> 00:56:55,890 With today's technology, you've been limited 826 00:56:55,934 --> 00:56:59,503 to looking at only a handful of traits. 827 00:56:59,546 --> 00:57:02,897 But soon, genome sequencing will become cheap enough, 828 00:57:02,941 --> 00:57:05,465 easy enough, and accurate enough 829 00:57:05,509 --> 00:57:07,075 that you'll be able to learn everything 830 00:57:07,119 --> 00:57:08,250 genetics can tell you. 831 00:57:14,953 --> 00:57:17,085 -In the future, let's imagine that CRISPR 832 00:57:17,129 --> 00:57:21,002 gets really, really good. 833 00:57:21,046 --> 00:57:24,484 Maybe you don't need to produce lots of embryos. 834 00:57:24,528 --> 00:57:25,790 Maybe you just produce one, 835 00:57:25,833 --> 00:57:30,925 but you can make whatever edits you want to it. 836 00:57:30,969 --> 00:57:32,231 -So the carrier screening 837 00:57:32,274 --> 00:57:34,102 that I was talking about earlier 838 00:57:34,146 --> 00:57:38,803 tends to focus on disorders that show up early. 839 00:57:38,846 --> 00:57:40,935 Everyone wants to have a healthy, perfect baby. 840 00:57:40,979 --> 00:57:44,199 I think that's a universal truth. 841 00:57:44,243 --> 00:57:45,853 You know, "How can I make sure 842 00:57:45,897 --> 00:57:47,942 "that my child will be healthy? 843 00:57:47,986 --> 00:57:49,901 "How can I make sure that, you know, 844 00:57:49,944 --> 00:57:51,903 "they're gonna have some of these positive traits, 845 00:57:51,946 --> 00:57:54,514 that they're gonna do well, they're gonna learn well?" 846 00:57:54,558 --> 00:57:57,082 Looking at this family history, certainly I... 847 00:57:57,125 --> 00:57:58,953 The opinion is that information is good, 848 00:57:58,997 --> 00:58:02,261 and almost everyone that talks to me wants more information 849 00:58:02,304 --> 00:58:03,958 and even wants more-- like, we'll give them 850 00:58:04,002 --> 00:58:05,873 a whole bunch of information, and they even want more. 851 00:58:05,917 --> 00:58:08,746 -I know my grandmother also had two... 852 00:58:08,789 --> 00:58:10,878 -I actually first heard about genetic counseling 853 00:58:10,922 --> 00:58:13,185 from my mother. 854 00:58:13,228 --> 00:58:16,536 Hemophilia A is the condition that runs in my family. 855 00:58:16,580 --> 00:58:18,930 It's a genetic bleeding disorder. 856 00:58:18,973 --> 00:58:21,672 There is a gene on the X chromosome. 857 00:58:21,715 --> 00:58:25,110 It encodes for a protein called factor VIII. 858 00:58:25,153 --> 00:58:28,679 When factor VIII isn't working, 859 00:58:28,722 --> 00:58:32,160 you can have a bleed that will lead to death. 860 00:58:33,684 --> 00:58:35,816 If I decide to have children naturally 861 00:58:35,860 --> 00:58:37,949 without reproductive technology, 862 00:58:37,992 --> 00:58:40,995 I am putting that child at 25% risk 863 00:58:41,039 --> 00:58:44,129 to have a really severe disorder. 864 00:58:44,172 --> 00:58:48,089 That responsibility feels like it's on me. 865 00:58:48,133 --> 00:58:51,745 It takes it from the universe's decision to my decision. 866 00:58:54,922 --> 00:58:57,664 Today, I'm unusual because I know that 867 00:58:57,708 --> 00:59:00,101 I'm a carrier of a genetic condition, 868 00:59:00,145 --> 00:59:02,147 but soon, everyone will know 869 00:59:02,190 --> 00:59:04,715 genetic information about themselves. 870 00:59:07,631 --> 00:59:10,764 -What about the cost of it? 871 00:59:10,808 --> 00:59:13,375 In the short term, there's a disturbing possibility 872 00:59:13,419 --> 00:59:15,639 that people with means 873 00:59:15,682 --> 00:59:18,859 will be availing themselves of this technology, 874 00:59:18,903 --> 00:59:22,123 and people who don't have those means will not. 875 00:59:22,167 --> 00:59:23,908 So I kind of hope for a future 876 00:59:23,951 --> 00:59:27,215 where government makes it free for everybody. 877 00:59:27,259 --> 00:59:29,783 You would have a generally healthier population, 878 00:59:29,827 --> 00:59:33,178 maybe longer lived population on average, 879 00:59:33,221 --> 00:59:36,660 maybe slightly smarter population on average. 880 00:59:38,749 --> 00:59:41,795 So if you have a smaller fraction of your population 881 00:59:41,839 --> 00:59:43,623 with Down syndrome, 882 00:59:43,667 --> 00:59:45,233 the average intelligence is a little bit higher, 883 00:59:45,277 --> 00:59:47,322 and, you know, 884 00:59:47,366 --> 00:59:49,237 society might run a little bit more efficiently 885 00:59:49,281 --> 00:59:51,152 if people are a little bit smarter. 886 00:59:56,157 --> 00:59:58,072 What is the bearing of the laws of heredity 887 00:59:58,116 --> 01:00:00,379 upon human affairs? 888 01:00:00,422 --> 01:00:03,904 Eugenics provides the answer, so far as this is known. 889 01:00:03,948 --> 01:00:07,342 Eugenics seeks to apply the known laws of heredity 890 01:00:07,386 --> 01:00:09,780 so as to prevent the degeneration of the race 891 01:00:09,823 --> 01:00:11,825 and improve its inborn qualities. 892 01:00:11,869 --> 01:00:13,131 Well, the concept of eugenics, 893 01:00:13,174 --> 01:00:14,785 if you--if you go way back, 894 01:00:14,828 --> 01:00:17,918 it really just means good genes. 895 01:00:17,962 --> 01:00:21,400 The idea is that the human race could improve itself. 896 01:00:47,382 --> 01:00:49,167 -It was, of course, hijacked, 897 01:00:49,210 --> 01:00:51,691 and when people today talk about eugenics, 898 01:00:51,735 --> 01:00:54,476 they think specifically of the Nazis of Nazi Germany, 899 01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:57,392 of compulsory sterilization, where, by force, 900 01:00:57,436 --> 01:00:59,786 people were compelled to be sterilized or killed 901 01:00:59,830 --> 01:01:02,136 because the state didn't like their genes. 902 01:01:02,180 --> 01:01:04,704 There was shock last month over the revelation 903 01:01:04,748 --> 01:01:08,142 that the state of Virginia sterilized thousands of persons 904 01:01:08,186 --> 01:01:10,710 between 1922 and '72 905 01:01:10,754 --> 01:01:13,974 in a program aimed at ridding the state of so-called misfits. 906 01:01:14,018 --> 01:01:15,715 What we're talking about here 907 01:01:15,759 --> 01:01:18,892 where we're being paid to do these genetic tests 908 01:01:18,936 --> 01:01:21,329 by loving parents who want to have a healthy child, 909 01:01:21,373 --> 01:01:24,811 to equate that with Nazism is, 910 01:01:24,855 --> 01:01:28,510 I think, just--not just stupid but actually insane. 911 01:01:28,554 --> 01:01:30,034 I've taken the liberty of eradicating 912 01:01:30,077 --> 01:01:31,905 any potentially prejudicial conditions: 913 01:01:31,949 --> 01:01:34,516 alcoholism and addictive susceptibility, 914 01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:36,301 propensity for violence, obesity, et cetera. 915 01:01:36,344 --> 01:01:39,739 We didn't want-- I-I mean, diseases, yes, 916 01:01:39,783 --> 01:01:41,741 -but, uh... -Right, we were just wondering 917 01:01:41,785 --> 01:01:45,092 if--if it's good to just leave a few things to chance. 918 01:01:45,136 --> 01:01:47,704 You want to give your child the best possible start. 919 01:01:49,140 --> 01:01:51,838 Now, keep in mind, this child is still you, 920 01:01:51,882 --> 01:01:54,798 simply the best of you. 921 01:02:00,542 --> 01:02:02,327 -My greatest fear in life, honestly, 922 01:02:02,370 --> 01:02:04,546 I--my two greatest fears, going back to me 923 01:02:04,590 --> 01:02:07,201 wanting to be a mom at the age of five, 924 01:02:07,245 --> 01:02:09,769 my first greatest fear is that I wouldn't be able 925 01:02:09,813 --> 01:02:11,205 to have a child, and my second greatest fear 926 01:02:11,249 --> 01:02:13,947 is that something would be wrong with my child. 927 01:02:13,991 --> 01:02:16,341 Okay, good job. Not too much water. 928 01:02:16,384 --> 01:02:17,908 Oh, careful, sweetie. 929 01:02:17,951 --> 01:02:20,258 -With Ruthie, I started seeing that 930 01:02:20,301 --> 01:02:21,868 she kind of wasn't tracking. 931 01:02:24,088 --> 01:02:25,872 When I would feed her, 932 01:02:25,916 --> 01:02:28,788 her eyes would slide back and forth. 933 01:02:28,832 --> 01:02:31,791 Hi. 934 01:02:31,835 --> 01:02:34,359 And then one day I went to my friend's house, 935 01:02:34,402 --> 01:02:36,796 and her baby looked me right in the eyes 936 01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:37,884 and I came home to Ethan and I said, 937 01:02:37,928 --> 01:02:40,278 "There's something wrong." 938 01:02:40,321 --> 01:02:43,585 -We did genetic testing. 939 01:02:43,629 --> 01:02:47,285 She inherited one mutated copy of this OCA2 gene from me 940 01:02:47,328 --> 01:02:49,983 and one from Palmer. 941 01:02:51,550 --> 01:02:53,291 I don't think I even really understood 942 01:02:53,334 --> 01:02:55,467 that people with albinism had such impairment 943 01:02:55,510 --> 01:02:57,251 of their vision. 944 01:02:57,295 --> 01:02:58,992 -It's kind of like wrapping Saran Wrap over your eyes 945 01:02:59,036 --> 01:03:02,909 with Vaseline, very, very hard for her to see. 946 01:03:02,953 --> 01:03:04,432 Hi. 947 01:03:04,476 --> 01:03:06,043 Now I just, like, wanted to protect her. 948 01:03:06,086 --> 01:03:08,262 Like, this isn't true. This isn't happening. 949 01:03:08,306 --> 01:03:10,438 It was horrible... 950 01:03:10,482 --> 01:03:12,484 It was bad. 951 01:03:14,529 --> 01:03:20,492 One, two, three, four. 952 01:03:20,535 --> 01:03:22,015 Okay, where is he? Where is he? 953 01:03:22,059 --> 01:03:25,149 Whoa. 954 01:03:25,192 --> 01:03:27,064 Hi. 955 01:03:30,197 --> 01:03:34,114 She was really easy and happy. 956 01:03:34,158 --> 01:03:37,117 -Whoo! 957 01:03:37,161 --> 01:03:39,946 -And early on, I think we wondered if she was 958 01:03:39,990 --> 01:03:42,166 sort of, I don't know, 959 01:03:42,209 --> 01:03:44,995 protected by the fact that she couldn't see a lot. 960 01:03:45,038 --> 01:03:46,431 Look, I have a flashlight! 961 01:03:46,474 --> 01:03:49,129 -The world wasn't as noisy to her. 962 01:03:49,173 --> 01:03:50,478 -Blue. -Light it. Light it. 963 01:03:50,522 --> 01:03:53,046 -She was smart and talkative. 964 01:03:53,090 --> 01:03:54,961 Come here, Yoda. 965 01:03:55,005 --> 01:03:57,529 -Super curious. 966 01:04:02,273 --> 01:04:03,927 Oops... 967 01:04:03,970 --> 01:04:05,493 -You don't know what you don't know. 968 01:04:05,537 --> 01:04:08,279 You don't know that even though it's going to be different 969 01:04:08,322 --> 01:04:11,456 than what you thought, you don't know, you know, 970 01:04:11,499 --> 01:04:13,937 maybe how much better that's going to be. 971 01:04:33,391 --> 01:04:35,349 I want to be a professional basketball player, 972 01:04:35,393 --> 01:04:37,003 but I don't think that's gonna happen... 973 01:04:40,485 --> 01:04:42,617 Can I hold him? 974 01:04:44,489 --> 01:04:47,361 "Mission is simply one..." 975 01:04:47,405 --> 01:04:49,233 -Well, I mean, I've known about CRISPR 976 01:04:49,276 --> 01:04:50,625 from the perspective of being a doctor 977 01:04:50,669 --> 01:04:53,585 probably since the first publications 978 01:04:53,628 --> 01:04:56,022 in whatever it was, 2012. 979 01:04:56,066 --> 01:04:58,198 Oh, they come to teach the natives. 980 01:04:58,242 --> 01:05:01,114 -It really didn't intersect with our own world with Ruthie 981 01:05:01,158 --> 01:05:04,988 until probably about a year and a half ago 982 01:05:05,031 --> 01:05:07,033 when I read something on Twitter. 983 01:05:13,779 --> 01:05:16,738 A scientist who I respect a lot said he thought that 984 01:05:16,782 --> 01:05:20,351 in one or two generations that all children would be born 985 01:05:20,394 --> 01:05:23,702 with all of these genetic abnormalities edited out. 986 01:05:28,098 --> 01:05:29,577 -I know people who have children 987 01:05:29,621 --> 01:05:32,537 who have really debilitating diseases 988 01:05:32,580 --> 01:05:35,366 that make their children suffer, 989 01:05:35,409 --> 01:05:37,063 make their family suffer a lot, 990 01:05:37,107 --> 01:05:39,631 so I totally understand 991 01:05:39,674 --> 01:05:43,417 that desire to change that, 992 01:05:43,461 --> 01:05:45,680 but the rest of it scares me to death. 993 01:05:51,077 --> 01:05:52,774 I don't know where you draw the line 994 01:05:52,818 --> 01:05:55,038 between not having albinism 995 01:05:55,081 --> 01:05:57,214 and deciding your kid needs to be an extra foot taller 996 01:05:57,257 --> 01:06:00,173 so they can be a good oarsman and go to Yale. 997 01:06:00,217 --> 01:06:02,349 You know, where-- where is that line? 998 01:06:02,393 --> 01:06:05,526 Who's going to draw that? 999 01:06:05,570 --> 01:06:08,703 We're maybe a society who is afraid of things 1000 01:06:08,747 --> 01:06:11,445 that are different or afraid of people who are different, 1001 01:06:11,489 --> 01:06:14,796 afraid of people who have needs. 1002 01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:17,669 I worry that when we're 1003 01:06:17,712 --> 01:06:21,238 manipulating future generations, 1004 01:06:21,281 --> 01:06:24,241 those opinions are going to be passed on. 1005 01:06:26,678 --> 01:06:28,680 -You know, we as a society may think 1006 01:06:28,723 --> 01:06:32,989 that doing better on the SATs is better than doing worse. 1007 01:06:35,252 --> 01:06:41,301 Being taller, being handsomer, being more creative, 1008 01:06:41,345 --> 01:06:43,303 being more courageous, 1009 01:06:43,347 --> 01:06:48,613 those are traits that we would want to potentially select for. 1010 01:06:48,656 --> 01:06:50,528 Should we go there? 1011 01:06:50,571 --> 01:06:53,009 Is there an inevitability to going there? 1012 01:06:55,185 --> 01:06:58,188 You know, sometimes, I'm invited to give a talk on, 1013 01:06:58,231 --> 01:07:00,407 like, kind of futuristic science things, 1014 01:07:00,451 --> 01:07:03,454 and I've had tall, blonde 1015 01:07:03,497 --> 01:07:06,109 trophy wives come up to me 1016 01:07:06,152 --> 01:07:08,502 after the talk and say, "Wow, that was incredible. 1017 01:07:08,546 --> 01:07:10,374 That was an incredibly interesting talk, 1018 01:07:10,417 --> 01:07:12,071 but don't you think there's a problem with all this? 1019 01:07:12,115 --> 01:07:13,855 Won't every parent just select their kids 1020 01:07:13,899 --> 01:07:16,336 to be tall and blonde?" 1021 01:07:16,380 --> 01:07:19,078 The geeks all come up to me and say, "Isn't this dangerous, 1022 01:07:19,122 --> 01:07:20,558 'cause all the parents are gonna select 1023 01:07:20,601 --> 01:07:22,255 for the smartest kid they can possibly get," 1024 01:07:22,299 --> 01:07:24,127 'cause that's what the geeks think is cool. 1025 01:07:24,170 --> 01:07:26,259 You know, probably if you were talking to some NFL coaches, 1026 01:07:26,303 --> 01:07:27,826 they'd say, "Oh, what--everyone's gonna-- 1027 01:07:27,869 --> 01:07:29,741 everyone's gonna select their kid to be 6'5" 1028 01:07:29,784 --> 01:07:32,091 and run a 4.2 40," you know? 1029 01:07:32,135 --> 01:07:34,354 So, um, 1030 01:07:34,398 --> 01:07:37,096 there will be a wide range of what people think 1031 01:07:37,140 --> 01:07:40,404 is the right thing to select for or engineer for, 1032 01:07:40,447 --> 01:07:42,754 and, actually, there's nothing wrong with that, right? 1033 01:07:43,929 --> 01:07:46,323 Let a million flowers bloom. 1034 01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:51,502 On this estate 30 miles north of San Diego 1035 01:07:51,545 --> 01:07:54,113 is housed a sperm bank said to be made up exclusively 1036 01:07:54,157 --> 01:07:56,855 of donations by Nobel Prize-winning scientists. 1037 01:07:56,898 --> 01:07:59,118 The bank's founder will consider for fertilization 1038 01:07:59,162 --> 01:08:01,381 only women of high intelligence. 1039 01:08:01,425 --> 01:08:03,818 You don't know about the Nobel sperm bank? 1040 01:08:05,472 --> 01:08:07,300 -Businessman inventor Robert Graham 1041 01:08:07,344 --> 01:08:09,128 adds liquid nitrogen once a week 1042 01:08:09,172 --> 01:08:11,217 to a lead-shielded sperm repository 1043 01:08:11,261 --> 01:08:13,567 in an underground concrete bunker in his backyard. 1044 01:08:13,611 --> 01:08:16,483 The more good genes in the human gene pool, 1045 01:08:16,527 --> 01:08:19,225 the more good individuals will come out of it. 1046 01:08:19,269 --> 01:08:22,359 We aren't even thinking in terms of the super race. 1047 01:08:22,402 --> 01:08:24,274 -The so-called genius sperm bank, 1048 01:08:24,317 --> 01:08:28,234 a sperm bank to provide women, for free, 1049 01:08:28,278 --> 01:08:31,324 with donor semen from men that they viewed as geniuses. 1050 01:08:31,368 --> 01:08:34,675 We utilize sources such as this: 1051 01:08:34,719 --> 01:08:36,938 "Who's Who of Emerging Leaders." 1052 01:08:36,982 --> 01:08:39,202 -Very few women actually went ahead 1053 01:08:39,245 --> 01:08:41,769 and took advantage of this offer 1054 01:08:41,813 --> 01:08:45,643 to be given superior sperm for free. 1055 01:08:45,686 --> 01:08:48,211 I did a tour of sperm banks for the U.S. Congress. 1056 01:08:48,254 --> 01:08:49,908 I think I'm the only person who's ever gone 1057 01:08:49,951 --> 01:08:53,868 on a congressionally financed tour of California sperm banks. 1058 01:08:53,912 --> 01:08:56,784 Despite the fact that the donors are described 1059 01:08:56,828 --> 01:09:01,746 taller, skinnier, you know, better-looking or not, 1060 01:09:01,789 --> 01:09:03,922 people tended to pick somebody who looked like their partner, 1061 01:09:03,965 --> 01:09:05,793 no matter how imperfect, 1062 01:09:05,837 --> 01:09:09,406 because the emotional importance of the connection 1063 01:09:09,449 --> 01:09:11,712 outweighed any notion of 1064 01:09:11,756 --> 01:09:15,238 improvability or perfectibility. 1065 01:09:15,281 --> 01:09:17,805 If I were trying to have a child 1066 01:09:17,849 --> 01:09:20,199 and my partner was light-skinned, short, 1067 01:09:20,243 --> 01:09:22,854 with eczema, I would have had a child with a guy 1068 01:09:22,897 --> 01:09:25,639 who was light-skinned, short, and prone to eczema. 1069 01:09:25,683 --> 01:09:28,381 -But what if you could take that guy's sperm 1070 01:09:28,425 --> 01:09:30,470 and edit those specific things out? 1071 01:09:30,514 --> 01:09:31,906 Could I change his sperm 1072 01:09:31,950 --> 01:09:34,300 so it's still him but a better him? 1073 01:09:34,344 --> 01:09:37,564 -Exactly, yeah. -Right? 1074 01:09:37,608 --> 01:09:41,220 Maybe, but every change does come with risks 1075 01:09:41,264 --> 01:09:44,223 that you'll make changes you didn't intend, 1076 01:09:44,267 --> 01:09:47,705 so I think it'd be a long, long time 1077 01:09:47,748 --> 01:09:50,751 before you would take that risk for anything 1078 01:09:50,795 --> 01:09:53,885 other than something that was pretty significant. 1079 01:09:53,928 --> 01:09:55,669 But I might want to take advantage 1080 01:09:55,713 --> 01:09:58,498 of editing something out that would give my kid 1081 01:09:58,542 --> 01:10:01,371 a very strong chance of developing a severe cancer, 1082 01:10:01,414 --> 01:10:04,852 even if it's 40 years in the future. 1083 01:10:04,896 --> 01:10:06,811 Yeah. 1084 01:10:06,854 --> 01:10:08,987 So maybe that will happen. 1085 01:10:13,296 --> 01:10:14,949 This committee's gonna be looking at both somatic 1086 01:10:14,993 --> 01:10:18,518 and germ line applications of gene editing. 1087 01:10:18,562 --> 01:10:20,303 The committee that I co-chaired 1088 01:10:20,346 --> 01:10:23,610 for the National Academy of Sciences, 1089 01:10:23,654 --> 01:10:25,612 we were asked to look deeply at whether or not 1090 01:10:25,656 --> 01:10:29,050 there was something intrinsically unethical 1091 01:10:29,094 --> 01:10:33,054 about manipulating genes in a way that makes them heritable. 1092 01:10:33,098 --> 01:10:34,665 Significant degree of uncertainty. 1093 01:10:34,708 --> 01:10:36,667 This should be the goal of society, 1094 01:10:36,710 --> 01:10:39,887 to promote a better life for all 1095 01:10:39,931 --> 01:10:42,629 and to ensure that everybody can live a life 1096 01:10:42,673 --> 01:10:44,718 in dignity and freedom. 1097 01:10:44,762 --> 01:10:48,896 Can this be achieved by germ line gene editing? 1098 01:10:48,940 --> 01:10:51,943 My view is no. 1099 01:10:51,986 --> 01:10:53,858 -The American Medical Association, 1100 01:10:53,901 --> 01:10:56,382 bunch of European countries, you know, 1101 01:10:56,426 --> 01:10:57,905 any number of organizations all had positions, 1102 01:10:57,949 --> 01:11:00,560 like meddling in the germ line would be wrong. 1103 01:11:00,604 --> 01:11:03,084 It would be unethical. 1104 01:11:03,128 --> 01:11:04,825 But they all said those things 1105 01:11:04,869 --> 01:11:07,437 at a time when it couldn't be done, so it was easy to say. 1106 01:11:07,480 --> 01:11:09,395 It was a gimme, right? 1107 01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:12,703 And then as soon as it comes that you can do it, 1108 01:11:12,746 --> 01:11:14,879 then the positions change. 1109 01:11:14,922 --> 01:11:19,318 -Huntington's lurks in our DNA like a time bomb. 1110 01:11:19,362 --> 01:11:21,668 It would really eliminate a scourge in the world, 1111 01:11:21,712 --> 01:11:23,496 so I would say go for it. 1112 01:11:23,540 --> 01:11:25,629 -At the big National Academy meeting, 1113 01:11:25,672 --> 01:11:28,588 there was not a good representation of patients, 1114 01:11:28,632 --> 01:11:31,896 but the few who did speak were definitely in favor. 1115 01:11:31,939 --> 01:11:33,680 I say, yes, it is worth pursuing 1116 01:11:33,724 --> 01:11:34,986 in a safe and rational manner. 1117 01:11:35,029 --> 01:11:36,466 Definitely. Let's go. 1118 01:11:36,509 --> 01:11:40,818 Anything that will stop my child from suffering, 1119 01:11:40,861 --> 01:11:42,602 I'm for. 1120 01:11:42,646 --> 01:11:44,387 You know, draw this ethical line wherever you want, 1121 01:11:44,430 --> 01:11:47,041 but don't draw it in front of my disease. 1122 01:11:47,085 --> 01:11:49,087 He was six days old. 1123 01:11:49,130 --> 01:11:51,437 -I remember one woman told a story about a child 1124 01:11:51,481 --> 01:11:54,353 that she had and died of an inheritable disease. 1125 01:11:54,397 --> 01:11:57,051 He had seizures every day. 1126 01:11:57,095 --> 01:11:59,967 We donated his body for research. 1127 01:12:00,011 --> 01:12:02,622 If we have... 1128 01:12:02,666 --> 01:12:05,669 The skills and the knowledge 1129 01:12:05,712 --> 01:12:09,063 to fix these diseases, then freaking do it. 1130 01:12:12,458 --> 01:12:16,419 The statement of task demanded that we try to follow 1131 01:12:16,462 --> 01:12:18,377 the evidence and follow the logic, 1132 01:12:18,421 --> 01:12:21,075 not that we follow the politics. 1133 01:12:21,119 --> 01:12:25,166 We said, "We conclude it is not intrinsically evil." 1134 01:12:25,210 --> 01:12:28,953 It is, what we called "ethically defensible," 1135 01:12:28,996 --> 01:12:32,173 but we understood that this was now a break from the past 1136 01:12:32,217 --> 01:12:35,568 in the thinking on this topic, yes. 1137 01:12:35,612 --> 01:12:37,831 In Genesis 1, 1138 01:12:37,875 --> 01:12:41,008 we discovered the concept of the Imago Dei, 1139 01:12:41,052 --> 01:12:45,709 being in the image and likeness of God. 1140 01:12:45,752 --> 01:12:47,841 What does that mean for this science 1141 01:12:47,885 --> 01:12:51,802 where we have the capacity to edit in some things, 1142 01:12:51,845 --> 01:12:54,805 perhaps, that we think are important? 1143 01:12:54,848 --> 01:12:56,676 Are we playing God? 1144 01:13:21,919 --> 01:13:24,922 -The balance of nature is built of a series 1145 01:13:24,965 --> 01:13:28,229 of interrelationships between living things 1146 01:13:28,273 --> 01:13:31,711 and between living things and their environment. 1147 01:13:40,938 --> 01:13:43,680 Now, to these people, apparently, 1148 01:13:43,723 --> 01:13:47,074 the balance of nature was something that was 1149 01:13:47,118 --> 01:13:50,469 repealed as soon as man came on the scene. 1150 01:14:18,715 --> 01:14:20,847 The babies that came out of that are now adults, 1151 01:14:20,891 --> 01:14:22,936 and the adults are having their own babies, 1152 01:14:22,980 --> 01:14:25,678 so it seems like making that many edits 1153 01:14:25,722 --> 01:14:28,594 is completely compatible 1154 01:14:28,638 --> 01:14:31,075 with a happy, healthy pig. 1155 01:14:36,341 --> 01:14:37,690 I tell people they'll be 1156 01:14:37,734 --> 01:14:39,997 visually underwhelmed by my lab. 1157 01:14:41,912 --> 01:14:43,261 It's just a bunch of small rooms 1158 01:14:43,304 --> 01:14:45,742 with usually very few people in them. 1159 01:14:48,092 --> 01:14:50,964 But in terms of what I see, 1160 01:14:51,008 --> 01:14:53,750 it's very exciting... 1161 01:14:59,103 --> 01:15:02,585 I've never really felt that "mad scientist" 1162 01:15:02,628 --> 01:15:05,805 was realistic for anybody that I knew, 1163 01:15:05,849 --> 01:15:08,634 including myself. 1164 01:15:08,678 --> 01:15:11,332 My lab has been accused of taking science fiction 1165 01:15:11,376 --> 01:15:12,812 and turning it into science fact. 1166 01:15:12,856 --> 01:15:15,946 I consider that very high praise. 1167 01:15:15,989 --> 01:15:19,950 But turning science fiction into science fact is not mad. 1168 01:15:19,993 --> 01:15:23,040 It actually can be quite useful. 1169 01:15:25,956 --> 01:15:29,089 Aging reversal is the term that I prefer. 1170 01:15:29,133 --> 01:15:30,917 You know, I'm 63 years old. 1171 01:15:30,961 --> 01:15:34,965 I feel like I just barely got trained to do my job last year, 1172 01:15:35,008 --> 01:15:37,054 and so now you're gonna pull the plug and recycle me? 1173 01:15:37,097 --> 01:15:39,665 That doesn't make sense. 1174 01:15:43,190 --> 01:15:45,279 We need to be cautious in that, you know, 1175 01:15:45,323 --> 01:15:48,674 there's a--there's this whole population problem, 1176 01:15:48,718 --> 01:15:51,547 so we could do that if we have a place to put all those people. 1177 01:15:58,858 --> 01:16:00,643 Almost everything we do, 1178 01:16:00,686 --> 01:16:02,645 people just think this is goofy, 1179 01:16:02,688 --> 01:16:07,084 this is not feasible, it's science fiction. 1180 01:16:09,695 --> 01:16:12,132 But I think, originally, people thought that 1181 01:16:12,176 --> 01:16:16,006 sequencing human genomes inexpensively was a pipe dream. 1182 01:16:20,967 --> 01:16:23,056 -I can't not ask you about mammoths 1183 01:16:23,100 --> 01:16:24,884 because there's a bunch of them behind you. 1184 01:16:24,928 --> 01:16:26,930 Yeah, that should be up at the top of the list of things 1185 01:16:26,973 --> 01:16:31,282 that seem quixotic or misguided. 1186 01:16:33,937 --> 01:16:35,721 So in the Mammoth Project, 1187 01:16:35,765 --> 01:16:39,072 we read the ancient DNA, 1188 01:16:39,116 --> 01:16:43,903 decide which genes we're going to resurrect, 1189 01:16:43,947 --> 01:16:47,298 put those into the Asian elephant's cells, 1190 01:16:47,341 --> 01:16:49,648 and then we're developing technology 1191 01:16:49,692 --> 01:16:52,346 that is not yet working to make-- 1192 01:16:52,390 --> 01:16:54,087 take those embryos all the way to term. 1193 01:16:54,131 --> 01:16:57,090 Then we scale that up to make a herd of these things, 1194 01:16:57,134 --> 01:17:00,137 maybe 80,000 of them, to repopulate the tundra. 1195 01:17:02,269 --> 01:17:04,663 -Don't you see the danger, 1196 01:17:04,707 --> 01:17:07,318 John, inherent in what you're doing here? 1197 01:17:07,361 --> 01:17:08,972 Genetic power is the most awesome force 1198 01:17:09,015 --> 01:17:10,451 the planet's ever seen, but you wield it 1199 01:17:10,495 --> 01:17:12,410 like a kid that's found his dad's gun. 1200 01:17:12,453 --> 01:17:15,108 I don't think you're giving us our due credit. 1201 01:17:15,152 --> 01:17:16,762 Our scientists have done things 1202 01:17:16,806 --> 01:17:18,416 which nobody's ever done before. 1203 01:17:18,459 --> 01:17:20,113 Yeah, yeah, but your scientists 1204 01:17:20,157 --> 01:17:21,680 were so preoccupied with whether or not they could 1205 01:17:21,724 --> 01:17:23,203 they didn't stop to think if they should. 1206 01:17:23,247 --> 01:17:25,075 Well, 1207 01:17:25,118 --> 01:17:27,773 I often try to avoid talking about "Jurassic Park," 1208 01:17:27,817 --> 01:17:29,427 but I'll--I'll give you this. 1209 01:17:31,124 --> 01:17:33,300 You know, "Jurassic Park" was about hubris. 1210 01:17:33,344 --> 01:17:36,173 What species is this? 1211 01:17:36,216 --> 01:17:40,177 Uh, it's a velociraptor. 1212 01:17:40,220 --> 01:17:41,700 It's just the opposite 1213 01:17:41,744 --> 01:17:44,442 of what scientists like George Church 1214 01:17:44,485 --> 01:17:47,445 and others that we work with are thinking about. 1215 01:17:47,488 --> 01:17:50,317 When people say, "Aren't you playing God?" 1216 01:17:50,361 --> 01:17:53,364 my real reaction is, 1217 01:17:53,407 --> 01:17:55,409 nobody is playing in this field. 1218 01:17:55,453 --> 01:17:58,325 Nobody is toying with it 1219 01:17:58,369 --> 01:18:00,414 just to see if it can happen. 1220 01:18:03,026 --> 01:18:05,115 You know, in order to even fathom 1221 01:18:05,158 --> 01:18:07,334 bringing back an extinct species, 1222 01:18:07,378 --> 01:18:11,295 there's no end of engineering that has to happen, 1223 01:18:11,338 --> 01:18:15,299 and it is all novel, important, new science 1224 01:18:15,342 --> 01:18:18,171 that can be used to protect any species, 1225 01:18:18,215 --> 01:18:21,522 endangered as well as extinct. 1226 01:18:26,440 --> 01:18:29,182 Once you realize the magnitude 1227 01:18:29,226 --> 01:18:33,012 of humans' impact on the environment, 1228 01:18:33,056 --> 01:18:35,536 you know, it's hard for me to say 1229 01:18:35,580 --> 01:18:37,451 that we can't try to correct it. 1230 01:18:44,241 --> 01:18:48,027 We can't have our head in the sand. 1231 01:18:48,071 --> 01:18:51,378 We have a responsibility to use our human ingenuity 1232 01:18:51,422 --> 01:18:55,208 and our human skills and our wherewithal. 1233 01:18:55,252 --> 01:18:58,124 Sometimes it's leaving nature alone, 1234 01:18:58,168 --> 01:19:00,561 and sometimes it might be intervening. 1235 01:19:05,175 --> 01:19:07,568 So the gene we've edited controls 1236 01:19:07,612 --> 01:19:11,442 how the pores on the underside of the leaves open and close. 1237 01:19:11,485 --> 01:19:14,227 In the nonedited plant, these stomata or pores 1238 01:19:14,271 --> 01:19:17,404 will stay open during the hot, dry conditions. 1239 01:19:17,448 --> 01:19:21,887 Water is lost, and then these leaves lose water. 1240 01:19:21,931 --> 01:19:23,584 They wilt, and they roll. 1241 01:19:23,628 --> 01:19:26,370 In the edited plant, those stomata pores 1242 01:19:26,413 --> 01:19:28,807 close sooner under dry conditions 1243 01:19:28,851 --> 01:19:31,592 and the water is retained inside the plant. 1244 01:19:43,953 --> 01:19:46,085 -We have been messing with nature 1245 01:19:46,129 --> 01:19:48,348 ever since we came out of the trees. 1246 01:19:51,134 --> 01:19:54,877 Most of the lifeforms we eat are things we've made. 1247 01:19:57,096 --> 01:19:59,838 Corn used to be a grass. 1248 01:19:59,882 --> 01:20:01,100 Tomatoes used to be 1249 01:20:01,144 --> 01:20:03,842 tiny little berries that were bitter. 1250 01:20:03,886 --> 01:20:05,278 Geneticists changed that. 1251 01:20:05,322 --> 01:20:06,540 Now, we didn't call them geneticists. 1252 01:20:06,584 --> 01:20:08,412 We called them farmers. 1253 01:20:26,256 --> 01:20:29,041 -Do you think among these people there was anyone 1254 01:20:29,085 --> 01:20:32,436 that would be fair to call a scientist? 1255 01:20:32,479 --> 01:20:34,655 -Well, that's a really interesting question. 1256 01:20:34,699 --> 01:20:37,615 I think there's lots of different types 1257 01:20:37,658 --> 01:20:39,312 of scientists that were involved. 1258 01:20:39,356 --> 01:20:41,575 The first people who invented pottery 1259 01:20:41,619 --> 01:20:46,493 were really chemists, in a way. 1260 01:20:46,537 --> 01:20:52,021 And certainly the people who were inventing agriculture 1261 01:20:52,064 --> 01:20:55,372 and controlling plants and animals, 1262 01:20:55,415 --> 01:20:58,418 they were biologists, you know, botanists and biologists, 1263 01:20:58,462 --> 01:20:59,855 in our sense. 1264 01:21:06,557 --> 01:21:10,300 You know, you can see people trying things out. 1265 01:21:10,343 --> 01:21:12,519 What is the best way to grind grain 1266 01:21:12,563 --> 01:21:14,608 and how do you make bread? 1267 01:21:14,652 --> 01:21:17,524 You know, that was invented here. 1268 01:21:17,568 --> 01:21:22,051 To work that out is really not straightforward. 1269 01:21:25,402 --> 01:21:28,013 In this period of time, something more modern-like 1270 01:21:28,057 --> 01:21:30,537 in terms of our relationship with nature 1271 01:21:30,581 --> 01:21:32,975 was beginning to emerge. 1272 01:21:40,547 --> 01:21:43,376 As far as we understand it, hunter-gatherers 1273 01:21:43,420 --> 01:21:47,163 had a relationship of equality with nature 1274 01:21:47,206 --> 01:21:50,557 and had to look after nature, and if you hunted an animal, 1275 01:21:50,601 --> 01:21:53,560 you would have to give a gift to nature 1276 01:21:53,604 --> 01:21:57,042 to thank it for the animal that you'd been given. 1277 01:21:57,086 --> 01:21:59,044 And then as people started 1278 01:21:59,088 --> 01:22:01,003 domesticating plants and animals, 1279 01:22:01,046 --> 01:22:02,613 they started having a new relationship 1280 01:22:02,656 --> 01:22:04,571 where they were dominating 1281 01:22:04,615 --> 01:22:06,486 and controlling the natural world... 1282 01:22:09,011 --> 01:22:12,188 That made it something that you could transform. 1283 01:22:32,034 --> 01:22:34,123 We definitely see 1284 01:22:34,166 --> 01:22:38,083 great advantages in genetic engineering, 1285 01:22:38,127 --> 01:22:43,436 as agriculture, you know, was a great advance. 1286 01:22:43,480 --> 01:22:46,091 Certainly it's the building block of civilization 1287 01:22:46,135 --> 01:22:48,267 as we understand it. 1288 01:22:48,311 --> 01:22:51,140 But it definitely comes with its negatives. 1289 01:22:54,795 --> 01:22:58,364 You could say that the long-term consequences 1290 01:22:58,408 --> 01:23:01,237 were pollution and environment degradation 1291 01:23:01,280 --> 01:23:02,629 and so on and so forth, 1292 01:23:02,673 --> 01:23:05,719 but you would have had to be very farseeing, 1293 01:23:05,763 --> 01:23:08,635 you know, 9,000 years ago to realize that 1294 01:23:08,679 --> 01:23:11,247 that was what was gonna happen. 1295 01:23:17,079 --> 01:23:19,211 -These things creep in slowly. 1296 01:23:21,866 --> 01:23:24,477 It's not like everybody was hunting and gathering 1297 01:23:24,521 --> 01:23:25,696 and then next year, somebody said, 1298 01:23:25,739 --> 01:23:27,654 "Oh, let's farm," right? 1299 01:23:27,698 --> 01:23:30,309 It happened slowly and so it is disruptive 1300 01:23:30,353 --> 01:23:32,050 but it creeps up on people. 1301 01:23:32,094 --> 01:23:33,312 You don't realize it's disruptive 1302 01:23:33,356 --> 01:23:35,053 until you look backward. 1303 01:23:35,097 --> 01:23:37,055 Often you don't realize 1304 01:23:37,099 --> 01:23:38,796 that you're in the middle of a revolution until 1305 01:23:38,839 --> 01:23:41,538 after the revolution has occurred. 1306 01:23:41,581 --> 01:23:44,671 All right, so I don't know where we are right now. 1307 01:23:44,715 --> 01:23:46,499 It'll be interesting to see. 1308 01:23:46,543 --> 01:23:49,459 I hope I live long enough to see it. 1309 01:23:49,502 --> 01:23:51,591 Do you think you want to have kids? 1310 01:23:53,550 --> 01:23:55,639 I have too many siblings for that. 1311 01:23:55,682 --> 01:23:57,815 The answer's probably gonna change, 1312 01:23:57,858 --> 01:24:00,339 but for now, probably not, no. 1313 01:24:00,383 --> 01:24:02,124 -I'm not crazy. 1314 01:24:02,167 --> 01:24:04,691 They're saying maybe one day with CRISPR, 1315 01:24:04,735 --> 01:24:07,303 they could go in and change 1316 01:24:07,346 --> 01:24:10,393 the gene in the embryo 1317 01:24:10,436 --> 01:24:13,439 so that the kid, when it's born, 1318 01:24:13,483 --> 01:24:16,138 doesn't have sickle cell. 1319 01:24:16,181 --> 01:24:18,140 Hmm. 1320 01:24:22,753 --> 01:24:25,669 I guess that's kind of cool, that they're thinking 1321 01:24:25,712 --> 01:24:27,714 that it can do that in the future, 1322 01:24:27,758 --> 01:24:29,847 but I think that would be 1323 01:24:29,890 --> 01:24:33,459 up to the kid later. 1324 01:24:33,503 --> 01:24:35,200 What do you mean? 1325 01:24:35,244 --> 01:24:38,899 There's a lot of things that I learned having sickle cell 1326 01:24:38,943 --> 01:24:40,510 just because I had it. 1327 01:24:40,553 --> 01:24:44,209 I learned patience with everyone. 1328 01:24:44,253 --> 01:24:46,385 I learned, uh, 1329 01:24:46,429 --> 01:24:48,605 just to be positive. 1330 01:24:48,648 --> 01:24:51,390 So you don't wish that you never had it? 1331 01:24:51,434 --> 01:24:53,349 I don't wish that I never had it, no. 1332 01:24:53,392 --> 01:24:56,352 I don't think I'd be me if I didn't have sickle cell. 1333 01:25:00,443 --> 01:25:02,358 -Sickle cell's a really interesting, 1334 01:25:02,401 --> 01:25:04,882 unusual genetic disease. 1335 01:25:04,925 --> 01:25:07,580 If you've got two copies of the sickle gene, 1336 01:25:07,624 --> 01:25:09,452 you're really sick, and without modern medicine, 1337 01:25:09,495 --> 01:25:10,931 you die young. 1338 01:25:10,975 --> 01:25:13,891 If you've got two copies of the normal gene, 1339 01:25:13,934 --> 01:25:16,763 you don't get sickle cell at all. 1340 01:25:16,807 --> 01:25:19,288 It turns out, though, that if you've got 1341 01:25:19,331 --> 01:25:22,378 one sickle gene and one nonsickle gene, 1342 01:25:22,421 --> 01:25:27,426 you make cells that are somewhat sickle? 1343 01:25:27,470 --> 01:25:29,602 You're not sick, 1344 01:25:29,646 --> 01:25:33,171 but the organism that causes malaria 1345 01:25:33,215 --> 01:25:35,391 doesn't like those red blood cells. 1346 01:25:35,434 --> 01:25:37,871 Having a sickle gene is protective against 1347 01:25:37,915 --> 01:25:39,699 getting severe malaria, 1348 01:25:39,743 --> 01:25:43,181 so in the environment where there's lots of malaria, 1349 01:25:43,225 --> 01:25:44,878 it's better to be sickle cell trait 1350 01:25:44,922 --> 01:25:47,620 than not to be sickle cell trait. 1351 01:25:47,664 --> 01:25:49,883 -And that's why you see sickle cell anemia 1352 01:25:49,927 --> 01:25:52,451 in sub-Saharan Africa, 1353 01:25:52,495 --> 01:25:55,280 but you also see it in the Mediterranean, 1354 01:25:55,324 --> 01:25:57,978 in Greece, and in Sardinia. 1355 01:25:58,022 --> 01:26:00,851 It's because they had mosquitoes and malaria. 1356 01:26:02,853 --> 01:26:06,596 The relationship between our genes and our environment 1357 01:26:06,639 --> 01:26:08,424 is incredibly complex. 1358 01:26:08,467 --> 01:26:10,774 "Thanks, little brothers..." 1359 01:26:10,817 --> 01:26:12,515 -And we don't understand that. 1360 01:26:21,741 --> 01:26:24,962 -I think we have to have humility. 1361 01:26:25,005 --> 01:26:28,313 Nature is one of the greatest inventors of all time. 1362 01:26:30,054 --> 01:26:33,753 What we can do is a very, very 1363 01:26:33,797 --> 01:26:36,365 insignificant fraction of what nature has already done. 1364 01:26:39,759 --> 01:26:41,674 Nature invented CRISPR. 1365 01:26:48,028 --> 01:26:50,640 -So now we're mixing the cells with the CRISPR. 1366 01:26:50,683 --> 01:26:53,033 That's beautiful. 1367 01:26:53,077 --> 01:26:54,687 Once it's into the cell, 1368 01:26:54,731 --> 01:26:57,255 that starts the editing process. 1369 01:26:57,299 --> 01:26:59,736 We can't see that. We just know it happens. 1370 01:27:02,304 --> 01:27:05,524 -I don't know how, out of all the genes that you have, 1371 01:27:05,568 --> 01:27:08,310 that it targets the one that's doing sickle cell 1372 01:27:08,353 --> 01:27:10,486 and not the thing that's making you grow hair. 1373 01:27:10,529 --> 01:27:12,270 Oh. 1374 01:27:12,314 --> 01:27:15,926 But it does, apparently. 1375 01:27:15,969 --> 01:27:18,320 Like, that's cool... 1376 01:27:32,812 --> 01:27:35,424 You have to appreciate that this is a technology 1377 01:27:35,467 --> 01:27:37,469 that's only about five years old, 1378 01:27:37,513 --> 01:27:40,429 but it's been deployed incredibly rapidly. 1379 01:27:40,472 --> 01:27:44,389 We've never had the ability to change 1380 01:27:44,433 --> 01:27:46,826 the fundamental chemical nature 1381 01:27:46,870 --> 01:27:49,351 of who we are in this way, right? 1382 01:27:49,394 --> 01:27:51,614 And now we do, and what do we do with that? 1383 01:27:51,657 --> 01:27:54,617 It does make us really think deeply 1384 01:27:54,660 --> 01:27:56,575 about what it means to be human. 1385 01:27:56,619 --> 01:27:58,838 What do we value about human society? 1386 01:27:58,882 --> 01:28:00,318 And I know for myself... 1387 01:28:00,362 --> 01:28:02,102 -The things that make us most human 1388 01:28:02,146 --> 01:28:04,844 are some of the most genetically complex, 1389 01:28:04,888 --> 01:28:08,326 which is kind of a relief. 1390 01:28:08,370 --> 01:28:09,980 Creativity... 1391 01:28:10,023 --> 01:28:13,505 -Emotionality. 1392 01:28:13,549 --> 01:28:16,465 Love. 1393 01:28:16,508 --> 01:28:17,944 Now, I want to be clear: 1394 01:28:17,988 --> 01:28:20,730 they all have a biological basis. 1395 01:28:20,773 --> 01:28:23,298 They are all written in our DNA. 1396 01:28:25,996 --> 01:28:30,566 But we are a very, very, very long way away 1397 01:28:30,609 --> 01:28:33,482 from being able to edit the person. 1398 01:28:36,441 --> 01:28:37,964 -You think that day will come? 1399 01:28:38,008 --> 01:28:39,705 -I do, 1400 01:28:39,749 --> 01:28:42,665 but I'm hopeful that we will mature as a species 1401 01:28:42,708 --> 01:28:44,928 before we get this incredible technology to play with 1402 01:28:44,971 --> 01:28:47,365 for our own detriment. 1403 01:28:47,409 --> 01:28:51,369 I am hopeful for that, yes. 1404 01:28:51,413 --> 01:28:54,894 Is that hope based in fact? 1405 01:28:54,938 --> 01:28:57,375 We'll see. 1406 01:28:57,419 --> 01:29:00,117 How might we like to change our genes? 1407 01:29:00,160 --> 01:29:01,814 Perhaps we would like to alter 1408 01:29:01,858 --> 01:29:05,078 the uneasy balance of our emotions. 1409 01:29:05,122 --> 01:29:07,646 Could we be less warlike, 1410 01:29:07,690 --> 01:29:10,693 more self-confident, more serene? 1411 01:29:10,736 --> 01:29:12,695 Perhaps. 1412 01:29:19,571 --> 01:29:24,489 -Ours is, whether we like it or not, 1413 01:29:24,533 --> 01:29:28,101 an age of transition. 1414 01:29:28,145 --> 01:29:30,060 After 2 billion years, 1415 01:29:30,103 --> 01:29:33,411 this is, in a sense, the end of the beginning.