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00:00:06,867 --> 00:00:10,367
[Lorie Howard] Larry Hall,
he comes across as
being very ordinary,
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00:00:10,367 --> 00:00:13,800
almost seems somewhat
child-like at times.
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00:00:13,867 --> 00:00:16,700
He doesn't look
like a monster,
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00:00:16,767 --> 00:00:19,900
but make no mistake about it,
he's a monster.
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00:00:19,967 --> 00:00:22,700
He talked about the most
horrific and gruesome things
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00:00:22,767 --> 00:00:24,800
that one person can do
to another human being,
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00:00:26,100 --> 00:00:28,600
and didn't see the need
to apologize at all,
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00:00:28,667 --> 00:00:30,000
or show any type of regret...
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00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:30,800
or show any type of regret...
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00:00:34,500 --> 00:00:36,266
and that's scary.
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00:00:40,567 --> 00:00:42,567
[theme music playing]
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00:01:00,700 --> 00:01:02,467
Welcome to Very Scary People.
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00:01:02,467 --> 00:01:04,367
I'm Donnie Wahlberg.
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00:01:04,367 --> 00:01:07,300
Masquerading behind
the false front
of an ordinary man
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00:01:07,367 --> 00:01:10,467
lived a brutal killer,
a stealth predator,
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00:01:10,467 --> 00:01:13,467
creeping along
the barren back roads
of central Indiana,
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00:01:13,467 --> 00:01:16,700
targeting young women
to kidnap and kill.
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00:01:16,767 --> 00:01:19,867
He buried victims' bodies
so they'd never be found.
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00:01:19,867 --> 00:01:22,200
But can this cold-hearted
monster be made to reveal
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00:01:22,266 --> 00:01:24,300
where he hid
at least one of them?
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00:01:24,367 --> 00:01:27,667
A risky plan
is launched to find
Tricia Reitler's remains
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00:01:27,667 --> 00:01:30,000
and grant her parents' wish
to return her to her family.
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00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:31,400
and grant her parents' wish
to return her to her family.
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00:01:32,166 --> 00:01:34,367
This is part two
of "The Twin."
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00:01:47,300 --> 00:01:49,567
[male reporter] Tricia Reitler
took a walk off campus
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00:01:49,567 --> 00:01:53,467
and never came back to
Indiana Wesleyan University.
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00:01:53,467 --> 00:01:56,867
We've got a missing
college student in Indiana.
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00:01:57,667 --> 00:01:59,667
You look behind every bush.
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00:01:59,667 --> 00:02:00,000
If there's a dog house,
you look in the dog house.
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00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,367
If there's a dog house,
you look in the dog house.
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00:02:02,367 --> 00:02:04,767
If there's a trash can,
you look in the trash can.
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00:02:07,467 --> 00:02:10,066
Not knowing what happened,
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00:02:10,066 --> 00:02:12,367
where she is,
it's a nightmare.
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00:02:12,367 --> 00:02:14,667
[male reporter]
Some of her clothing
was found two days later
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00:02:14,667 --> 00:02:16,700
with a small amount of blood.
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00:02:16,767 --> 00:02:19,066
Investigators believe
Reitler was abducted,
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00:02:19,066 --> 00:02:21,066
but by whom, where and why?
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00:02:21,066 --> 00:02:23,066
Some kind of violent
altercation occurred.
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00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:26,767
[Casey Jordan] She would've
been overpowered.
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00:02:26,767 --> 00:02:29,500
She was subdued and taken
to a different location
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00:02:29,567 --> 00:02:30,000
where she was most likely
assaulted and killed.
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00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,100
where she was most likely
assaulted and killed.
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00:02:33,700 --> 00:02:35,567
[Donna Reitler]
She's not just a story,
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00:02:35,567 --> 00:02:36,800
she's not just a case.
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00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:39,567
She's our... Our daughter.
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00:02:39,567 --> 00:02:41,500
She's gone, and...
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00:02:41,567 --> 00:02:43,266
our lives will never be okay.
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00:02:47,467 --> 00:02:49,600
[female narrator]
In September of 1993,
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00:02:50,567 --> 00:02:53,400
a 15-year-old
named Jessica Roach
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00:02:53,467 --> 00:02:55,700
was out just riding
her priced mountain bike
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00:02:55,767 --> 00:02:57,200
along a rural road.
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00:03:04,667 --> 00:03:07,467
I picked up a lot of dust
going past her,
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00:03:07,467 --> 00:03:10,467
but I slowed way down,
so she pulled off,
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00:03:10,467 --> 00:03:11,867
stood there,
watched me drive by.
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00:03:11,867 --> 00:03:14,100
waved...
Real smiley and waved.
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00:03:15,166 --> 00:03:18,000
But on her drive home,
she sees
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00:03:18,066 --> 00:03:21,000
Jessica's bike abandoned
in the middle of the road.
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00:03:22,867 --> 00:03:24,467
Oh, my God, she's gone!
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00:03:24,467 --> 00:03:26,667
[Gary Miller] We do not
have a runaway,
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00:03:26,667 --> 00:03:28,500
we don't have
just a missing person.
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00:03:28,567 --> 00:03:29,867
There was foul play.
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00:03:34,100 --> 00:03:37,867
Two months later,
across the state lines
in Indiana...
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00:03:37,867 --> 00:03:41,467
A farmer was shearing through
his corn field,
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00:03:41,467 --> 00:03:47,767
and he looked down
and saw a dark object
between the rows of corn.
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00:03:47,767 --> 00:03:52,867
[Jordan]
He's absolutely horrified
to discover a dead body.
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00:03:52,867 --> 00:03:56,000
[Joni Johnston] The medical
examiner was able to take
one fingerprint.
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00:03:56,066 --> 00:03:58,667
This was, in fact,
Jessica Roach.
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00:03:58,667 --> 00:04:00,000
[Miller]
There were indications
in the neck area
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00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,800
[Miller]
There were indications
in the neck area
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00:04:01,867 --> 00:04:04,266
of some type of
strangulation.
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00:04:05,867 --> 00:04:09,900
[Johnston] The fact
that her body is found
across state lines,
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00:04:09,967 --> 00:04:11,567
several miles away,
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00:04:11,567 --> 00:04:13,200
adds to the mystery.
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00:04:13,700 --> 00:04:15,200
Who would do this?
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00:04:17,266 --> 00:04:20,266
[Jordan] A few months
after Jessica Roach's body
was found,
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00:04:20,266 --> 00:04:21,700
two other teenage girls,
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00:04:21,767 --> 00:04:24,100
also from Georgetown,
Illinois,
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00:04:24,100 --> 00:04:28,066
reported that a man in a van
had been stalking them.
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00:04:28,066 --> 00:04:30,000
We were riding our bikes,
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00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:30,767
We were riding our bikes,
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00:04:30,767 --> 00:04:34,266
and just appeared
this loud van.
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00:04:34,266 --> 00:04:36,800
He slowed down
and, like, stared at us.
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00:04:36,867 --> 00:04:38,600
He's definitely
following us.
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00:04:39,967 --> 00:04:42,166
And we just took off.
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00:04:42,166 --> 00:04:44,000
[Kaylen Hoskins]
We didn't know
what he was gonna do.
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00:04:44,066 --> 00:04:45,266
All I could see
was his headlights
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00:04:45,266 --> 00:04:47,700
because he was right...
Right there behind us.
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00:04:47,767 --> 00:04:53,000
We cut down an alley where
his van was not going to be
able to fit through.
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00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,500
Riding as fast as we could
to get back to her house.
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00:04:56,567 --> 00:04:59,700
It's the most terrifying thing
that's ever happened to me
in my life,
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00:04:59,767 --> 00:05:00,000
and I'll never forget
his face.
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00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,100
and I'll never forget
his face.
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00:05:02,166 --> 00:05:03,867
I just remember
seeing like, bushy...
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00:05:03,867 --> 00:05:06,066
-Weird hair and
stuff down the sides.
-Cheek hair.
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00:05:06,066 --> 00:05:07,367
[Kaylen Hoskins] Yeah.
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00:05:08,266 --> 00:05:10,467
In March of 1994,
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00:05:10,467 --> 00:05:15,100
two more teenage girls
report being stalked by
a man in a van.
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00:05:15,166 --> 00:05:17,767
They've got
his license plate number.
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00:05:17,767 --> 00:05:21,767
And they identified
the registered owner
as Larry Hall.
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00:05:23,500 --> 00:05:28,567
Larry never came across
that way, as being a predator.
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00:05:28,567 --> 00:05:30,000
[Ron Woodward]
I've known him since
he was in junior high school.
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00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:31,600
[Ron Woodward]
I've known him since
he was in junior high school.
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00:05:31,667 --> 00:05:34,667
He was kind of a loner,
was very quiet.
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00:05:34,667 --> 00:05:36,700
Stayed to himself.
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00:05:36,767 --> 00:05:39,467
[Gary Hall] He had a really
bad acne problem in school
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00:05:39,467 --> 00:05:42,467
and he was made fun
of a lot in school.
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00:05:42,467 --> 00:05:45,400
He didn't know
how to approach a woman.
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00:05:45,467 --> 00:05:47,567
He didn't know
how to talk to a woman.
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00:05:49,367 --> 00:05:55,400
One instance that
I noticed between
Larry and Gary
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00:05:55,467 --> 00:05:58,100
and women was...
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00:05:58,166 --> 00:06:00,000
Saturday night,
we were walking
around the town,
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00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:00,767
Saturday night,
we were walking
around the town,
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00:06:00,767 --> 00:06:03,367
Gary had split off
from Larry and I
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00:06:03,367 --> 00:06:05,700
and then, suddenly,
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00:06:05,767 --> 00:06:09,667
Gary comes back
with two women.
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00:06:09,667 --> 00:06:14,100
Larry and I looked
at each other and said
"No, oh, no. No."
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00:06:14,166 --> 00:06:19,967
But that, to me,
gave me an impression
that Gary was more
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00:06:19,967 --> 00:06:24,467
apt to approach women
than his brother Larry.
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00:06:25,567 --> 00:06:28,266
[Jordan]
In November of 1994,
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00:06:28,266 --> 00:06:30,000
the lead detective Gary Miller
goes to Indiana
to interview Larry Hall.
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00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,467
the lead detective Gary Miller
goes to Indiana
to interview Larry Hall.
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00:06:33,467 --> 00:06:35,867
Detective Miller
is investigating
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00:06:35,867 --> 00:06:38,000
whether or not
Hall was involved
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00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:39,967
in the murder
of Jessica Roach.
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00:06:39,967 --> 00:06:43,300
I had a picture,
it was a school picture
of Jessica Roach.
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00:06:43,367 --> 00:06:45,600
[Jordan] And he presents
the photo to Larry Hall.
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00:06:45,667 --> 00:06:48,066
[Miller] And Larry
meekly just, uh...
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00:06:48,066 --> 00:06:50,667
Just flinched to the right
and turned his head,
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00:06:50,667 --> 00:06:54,166
and then he said, "No,"
but he would not look
at the picture.
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And ten days later,
he sits down with him again.
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00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:00,100
And ten days later,
he sits down with him again.
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00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,367
Larry Hall confessed
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00:07:04,367 --> 00:07:06,567
to the murder
of Jessica Roach.
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00:07:06,567 --> 00:07:07,867
[female reporter]
Hall told authorities,
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00:07:07,867 --> 00:07:10,467
Jessica was crying
and asking for her mother,
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00:07:10,467 --> 00:07:12,100
and that made him angry.
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00:07:12,100 --> 00:07:14,767
He says he then leaned
Jessica up against a tree,
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told her
he was going to let her go.
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00:07:16,867 --> 00:07:19,266
Then went behind her
and strangled her.
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00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,400
But Larry's confession
continued beyond
Jessica Roach.
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00:07:24,467 --> 00:07:26,867
[John Miller]
And they're starting
to realize,
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00:07:26,867 --> 00:07:29,367
"This is way bigger
than we thought."
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00:07:29,367 --> 00:07:30,000
He admitted to
the Tricia Reitler murder.
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00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,266
He admitted to
the Tricia Reitler murder.
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00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:39,100
"In late March of '93,
I was over in Marion Indiana.
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00:07:39,100 --> 00:07:41,567
I needed to be with somebody.
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00:07:41,567 --> 00:07:44,000
I do remember
she tried to run away.
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00:07:44,867 --> 00:07:47,567
I had a knife to scare her.
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00:07:47,567 --> 00:07:49,100
I put her in the van.
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00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:55,767
I recall being on a canvas
in the woods having sex.
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00:07:55,767 --> 00:07:58,066
I sat her up against a tree
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00:07:58,066 --> 00:08:00,000
and put a belt
around her neck."
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00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,767
and put a belt
around her neck."
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00:08:01,767 --> 00:08:05,467
And he confesses to killing
a couple of other people
that he doesn't name.
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00:08:05,467 --> 00:08:08,166
[Hillel Levin]
"I went to Anderson, Indiana,
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00:08:08,166 --> 00:08:10,767
and exactly
the same thing happened.
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00:08:10,767 --> 00:08:14,667
I picked up this girl,
it was in Indianapolis,
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00:08:14,667 --> 00:08:17,867
I picked up several girls
in other areas.
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00:08:18,700 --> 00:08:21,266
All the girls looked alike.
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00:08:21,266 --> 00:08:23,467
I cannot remember
all of them."
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00:08:25,367 --> 00:08:28,967
[Belinda Stack]
After learning that
he had a twin brother,
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00:08:28,967 --> 00:08:30,000
I've often wondered
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00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:30,667
I've often wondered
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00:08:30,667 --> 00:08:33,867
if his brother wasn't
as crazy as he is.
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00:08:33,867 --> 00:08:37,767
I've often wondered
if he didn't help Larry.
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00:08:37,767 --> 00:08:41,100
There is a huge question mark
in terms of his brother Gary
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00:08:41,100 --> 00:08:43,467
and whether
he was involved or not.
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00:08:52,667 --> 00:08:53,667
[inaudible]
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00:08:54,667 --> 00:08:56,867
Two young girls
were attacked and murdered
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00:08:56,867 --> 00:08:59,567
before Larry Hall
was ultimately brought in,
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00:08:59,567 --> 00:09:01,300
questioned and confessed.
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00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,266
I arrested him
after the interview.
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00:09:09,266 --> 00:09:11,000
[Larry Beaumont]
He was charged
with a federal kidnapping,
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00:09:11,066 --> 00:09:12,367
and causing a death
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00:09:12,367 --> 00:09:14,900
in the course of committing
that kidnapping.
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00:09:14,967 --> 00:09:17,700
[John Miller] The FBI
searched the house.
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00:09:17,767 --> 00:09:19,467
What they needed was evidence.
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00:09:19,467 --> 00:09:20,655
And they went about
searching for...
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00:09:20,655 --> 00:09:21,300
And they went about
searching for...
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00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,000
blood evidence,
DNA, trace evidence.
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00:09:25,066 --> 00:09:29,000
Anything that they could use
to validate that confession
in front of a jury.
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00:09:29,066 --> 00:09:33,400
There was no forensic evidence
against Larry.
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00:09:33,467 --> 00:09:36,700
Among the things
that made Larry so dangerous
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00:09:36,767 --> 00:09:41,066
is he did have experience
as a janitor.
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00:09:41,066 --> 00:09:43,867
If you look at his notes,
he is careful
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00:09:43,867 --> 00:09:48,867
about making sure he has
certain types of chemicals.
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00:09:48,867 --> 00:09:50,600
[Jackson]
There's a search of his van.
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00:09:50,667 --> 00:09:55,266
Authorities find this journal
where Larry Hall
kept meticulous notes
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00:09:55,266 --> 00:09:56,900
with respect to his crimes.
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00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,967
[Levin] "April 5, 1993.
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00:10:00,967 --> 00:10:03,066
Vacuum van thoroughly,
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00:10:03,667 --> 00:10:05,600
sprayed down chemicals,
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00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,667
wiped with Armor All.
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00:10:08,667 --> 00:10:11,967
Clean all tools
with denatured alcohol."
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00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,100
[Johnston]
Three days go by,
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00:10:17,100 --> 00:10:20,266
and Agent Randolph
is getting several phone calls
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00:10:20,266 --> 00:10:20,655
from the jail,
from Larry Hall,
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00:10:20,655 --> 00:10:22,567
from the jail,
from Larry Hall,
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00:10:22,567 --> 00:10:23,967
saying,
"I want to talk with you,"
200
00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,400
and so Agent Randolph
sits down again
with Larry Hall
201
00:10:27,467 --> 00:10:31,367
who says,
"These were actually dreams,
it's not real."
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00:10:31,367 --> 00:10:34,400
He recants
the things he had said.
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00:10:37,066 --> 00:10:40,400
[Beaumont] We ultimately
did give Larry Hall
a polygraph exam.
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00:10:40,467 --> 00:10:42,767
Later on,
after he was charged.
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00:10:42,767 --> 00:10:44,433
The questions are
specifically about
206
00:10:44,433 --> 00:10:48,266
did you kidnap Jessica Roach
and did he, you know,
cause her death...
207
00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,655
which he failed.
208
00:10:50,655 --> 00:10:51,066
which he failed.
209
00:10:51,066 --> 00:10:54,367
[Jackson]
There's a reason that Larry
took back his confession.
210
00:10:54,367 --> 00:10:59,166
I think his quote was,
"My brother told me to shut up
'cause I was in big trouble."
211
00:10:59,166 --> 00:11:04,467
Gary was well aware
of his brother Larry's
deep personal troubles,
212
00:11:04,467 --> 00:11:06,367
both present and past.
213
00:11:10,300 --> 00:11:13,266
Now the strange story here is,
214
00:11:13,266 --> 00:11:16,266
after about
a year and half of age,
215
00:11:16,266 --> 00:11:19,266
Larry started looking
different.
216
00:11:19,266 --> 00:11:20,655
His eyes were deeper set
and dark,
217
00:11:20,655 --> 00:11:23,467
His eyes were deeper set
and dark,
218
00:11:23,467 --> 00:11:26,867
and they call it, like,
the thousand-yard stare.
219
00:11:26,867 --> 00:11:30,367
It's like
he didn't have any soul.
220
00:11:30,367 --> 00:11:34,300
At age six,
my brother Larry,
all of a sudden walks up on me
221
00:11:34,367 --> 00:11:36,767
with a full-size
cement block,
222
00:11:36,767 --> 00:11:40,266
and tries to crush
my skull with it.
223
00:11:40,266 --> 00:11:45,100
At age ten, he pulled
a butcher knife in the kitchen
for no reason at all.
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00:11:46,266 --> 00:11:48,600
He was very jealous of me.
225
00:11:48,667 --> 00:11:50,655
Rage would come out of him.
226
00:11:50,655 --> 00:11:50,900
Rage would come out of him.
227
00:11:50,967 --> 00:11:54,600
And it always culminated with
him threatening to kill me.
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00:11:56,867 --> 00:12:01,900
Criminologists studying
the childhood behaviors
of suspected serial killers,
229
00:12:01,967 --> 00:12:05,066
look at behaviors related
to the MacDonald triad.
230
00:12:05,066 --> 00:12:06,900
The MacDonald triad
is, you know,
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00:12:06,967 --> 00:12:09,567
chronic bed-wetting,
fire setting,
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00:12:09,567 --> 00:12:11,200
and animal cruelty.
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00:12:11,266 --> 00:12:14,100
Interestingly enough,
Larry Hall does have
all three.
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00:12:15,066 --> 00:12:16,900
He was a bed-wetter,
235
00:12:16,967 --> 00:12:19,667
and he was
very ashamed of that.
236
00:12:19,667 --> 00:12:20,655
He did help set fire
237
00:12:20,655 --> 00:12:22,166
He did help set fire
238
00:12:22,166 --> 00:12:25,367
to several buildings in town.
239
00:12:25,367 --> 00:12:27,367
In fact, he was even arrested.
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00:12:27,367 --> 00:12:29,367
And there is this story
241
00:12:29,367 --> 00:12:32,767
that at one point,
Larry killed, you know,
242
00:12:32,767 --> 00:12:34,900
over 300 rabbits
that were in their home.
243
00:12:35,867 --> 00:12:37,867
[Gary Hall] We woke up
the next morning,
244
00:12:37,867 --> 00:12:40,000
cages had been ripped open.
245
00:12:40,066 --> 00:12:42,066
It's like somebody
took a butcher knife
246
00:12:42,066 --> 00:12:45,600
and slaughtered
all 380 of our rabbits.
247
00:12:46,266 --> 00:12:47,800
There is a link
248
00:12:47,867 --> 00:12:50,655
between animal cruelty
and cruelty to humans
later on.
249
00:12:50,655 --> 00:12:51,166
between animal cruelty
and cruelty to humans
later on.
250
00:12:51,166 --> 00:12:53,567
Can you harm an animal
and not care?
251
00:12:53,567 --> 00:12:56,000
Do you harm a person
and not care?
252
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,667
All those kind of things
would certainly be
red flags for me.
253
00:13:00,467 --> 00:13:03,266
Once Larry Hall
was finally charged,
254
00:13:03,266 --> 00:13:06,000
now detectives
from all over the country
255
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,066
were connecting him
to cold cases in their states
256
00:13:09,066 --> 00:13:10,567
that dated back years.
257
00:13:11,867 --> 00:13:14,100
[John Miller]
Michelle Dewey, 1991,
258
00:13:14,100 --> 00:13:15,767
she's with her son
in the backyard.
259
00:13:17,967 --> 00:13:20,655
[Jackson]
That tranquil setting
would soon be shattered.
260
00:13:20,655 --> 00:13:20,800
[Jackson]
That tranquil setting
would soon be shattered.
261
00:13:22,467 --> 00:13:25,467
The young mom
was preyed upon by a killer
262
00:13:25,467 --> 00:13:28,166
who strangled her to death.
263
00:13:28,166 --> 00:13:30,867
Michelle Dewey's murder
is discovered
by her babysitter
264
00:13:30,867 --> 00:13:33,767
who's coming to the house
to take care of her son.
265
00:13:33,767 --> 00:13:36,300
The son is found unharmed
hiding in a closet.
266
00:13:36,367 --> 00:13:39,266
The murder seemed
to fit the MO
of Larry Hall perfectly.
267
00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:41,567
Young women in her 20s,
268
00:13:41,567 --> 00:13:43,867
strangled to death
in the 1990s,
269
00:13:43,867 --> 00:13:47,100
within striking distance
of Larry Hall's hometown.
270
00:13:48,166 --> 00:13:50,467
[Levin]
When a cold case detective
271
00:13:50,467 --> 00:13:50,655
questioned him
about that murder,
272
00:13:50,655 --> 00:13:52,767
questioned him
about that murder,
273
00:13:52,767 --> 00:13:54,967
he mentioned
274
00:13:54,967 --> 00:13:57,467
a souvenir he took
from her home.
275
00:13:57,467 --> 00:13:59,567
A record album was taken
276
00:14:00,700 --> 00:14:02,867
only the killer
would've known about,
277
00:14:02,867 --> 00:14:06,600
but otherwise
there hasn't been
any other evidence
278
00:14:06,667 --> 00:14:10,000
that would tie him
to that crime.
279
00:14:10,066 --> 00:14:13,000
[Jackson] Laurie Depies
was yet another unsolved case
280
00:14:13,066 --> 00:14:16,100
connected to Larry Hall's
admitted past.
281
00:14:18,500 --> 00:14:19,867
[female reporter]
The last night
she was seen,
282
00:14:19,867 --> 00:14:20,655
Laurie Depies had left her job
at the Fox River Mall
283
00:14:20,655 --> 00:14:22,367
Laurie Depies had left her job
at the Fox River Mall
284
00:14:22,367 --> 00:14:24,467
and headed
to her boyfriend's apartment.
285
00:14:24,467 --> 00:14:26,367
The three people inside
waiting for Laurie
286
00:14:26,367 --> 00:14:28,266
knew she had pulled into
the parking lot
287
00:14:28,266 --> 00:14:30,800
because of her car's
notoriously loud exhaust.
288
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:33,800
[Jackson] Years later,
289
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,567
Larry Hall admitted
to the abduction and murder
of Laurie Depies.
290
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:45,600
And he also said
that she placed a soda cup
on top of her car.
291
00:14:45,667 --> 00:14:50,655
A detail like that
is what Larry gave
Wisconsin State Police,
292
00:14:50,655 --> 00:14:52,166
A detail like that
is what Larry gave
Wisconsin State Police,
293
00:14:52,166 --> 00:14:57,367
who sounded like
they were as close
to indicting him
294
00:14:57,367 --> 00:14:59,200
on that case as any case.
295
00:15:05,567 --> 00:15:09,567
Larry's trial began on
May 23rd of 1995.
296
00:15:09,567 --> 00:15:13,400
[female reporter]
The Wabash, Indiana man
put up to life in prison.
297
00:15:13,467 --> 00:15:16,567
Hall signed a statement
in which he confessed
to the killing,
298
00:15:16,567 --> 00:15:20,266
along with the murders
of an Indiana Wesleyan
student, Tricia Reitler,
299
00:15:20,266 --> 00:15:20,655
and two other unnamed females.
300
00:15:20,655 --> 00:15:22,767
and two other unnamed females.
301
00:15:24,900 --> 00:15:28,567
But police in Marion, Indiana
still had doubts
302
00:15:28,567 --> 00:15:30,567
about Larry Hall's involvement
303
00:15:30,567 --> 00:15:32,567
in the murder
of Tricia Reitler.
304
00:15:32,567 --> 00:15:34,967
Information provided
will be followed up,
305
00:15:34,967 --> 00:15:37,500
but at this time,
it has not resulted
in any conclusion
306
00:15:37,567 --> 00:15:39,200
in the disappearance
of Tricia Reitler.
307
00:15:39,266 --> 00:15:43,166
Marion police didn't believe
he's involved in the
Tricia Reitler kidnapping.
308
00:15:43,166 --> 00:15:45,767
From the outset
of Tricia Reitler's
disappearance,
309
00:15:45,767 --> 00:15:48,266
the police focused
almost exclusively
310
00:15:48,266 --> 00:15:49,867
on one suspect.
311
00:15:49,867 --> 00:15:50,655
A 28-year-old man
named Tony Searcy.
312
00:15:50,655 --> 00:15:52,867
A 28-year-old man
named Tony Searcy.
313
00:15:52,867 --> 00:15:54,867
[Michael Sangiacomo]
But he was only charged
with theft.
314
00:15:54,867 --> 00:15:57,066
Sometimes police
do get tunnel vision
315
00:15:57,066 --> 00:15:58,567
and they don't want to hear
anything else.
316
00:16:03,166 --> 00:16:05,400
[Loren Roach] The defense
wanted everybody to think
317
00:16:05,467 --> 00:16:07,767
that Larry Hall
was this merely
318
00:16:07,767 --> 00:16:09,667
mild-mannered little guy,
319
00:16:09,667 --> 00:16:11,567
that he would not hurt anybody
320
00:16:11,567 --> 00:16:14,100
and that he had this low IQ.
321
00:16:14,100 --> 00:16:17,400
He was talking about
dreams that he had.
322
00:16:17,467 --> 00:16:20,655
[Levin]
Assistant U.S. Attorney
Larry Beaumont
323
00:16:20,655 --> 00:16:21,166
[Levin]
Assistant U.S. Attorney
Larry Beaumont
324
00:16:21,166 --> 00:16:23,800
very methodically laid out
325
00:16:23,867 --> 00:16:25,667
the women he stalked,
326
00:16:25,667 --> 00:16:29,867
which is why he brought in
the Tricia Reitler case,
327
00:16:29,867 --> 00:16:32,967
shows a whole pattern
of behaviors.
328
00:16:32,967 --> 00:16:34,800
[John Miller]
The picture they're painting
of Larry Hall
329
00:16:34,867 --> 00:16:38,166
is that of a stalker,
a predator.
330
00:16:38,166 --> 00:16:41,066
Somebody who was hunting
all the time.
331
00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:46,266
The first trial
in federal court
is eight days,
332
00:16:46,266 --> 00:16:48,100
and it goes to the jury.
333
00:16:48,166 --> 00:16:49,467
The verdict was guilty.
334
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,000
And... I just cried.
335
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,800
[John Miller]
Larry Hall goes to jail,
336
00:16:55,867 --> 00:16:59,166
and his lawyers
appealed the conviction.
337
00:16:59,166 --> 00:17:01,367
And an appeals court agrees,
338
00:17:01,367 --> 00:17:03,700
and they set aside
his conviction
339
00:17:03,767 --> 00:17:05,667
and give him a new trial.
340
00:17:05,667 --> 00:17:08,000
I was shocked
when it came back that way.
341
00:17:08,066 --> 00:17:09,600
The problem was
342
00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:14,200
that the judge believed
Larry was coerced
into a confession.
343
00:17:14,266 --> 00:17:16,066
[Jordan] There being
no physical evidence,
344
00:17:16,066 --> 00:17:17,567
this raises the question,
345
00:17:17,567 --> 00:17:19,367
was it a false confession?
346
00:17:19,367 --> 00:17:20,655
[Levin] The judge felt that
given his shy nature,
347
00:17:20,655 --> 00:17:22,700
[Levin] The judge felt that
given his shy nature,
348
00:17:22,767 --> 00:17:25,467
it was, in fact,
very important
that they have that
349
00:17:26,266 --> 00:17:28,500
third-party expert.
350
00:17:28,567 --> 00:17:31,367
That false confession expert
would focus on
351
00:17:31,367 --> 00:17:34,567
analyzing the summary
of his sworn statement
352
00:17:34,567 --> 00:17:38,367
to determine whether or not
it actually is a confession,
353
00:17:38,367 --> 00:17:39,767
or whether
it's a false confession.
354
00:17:41,567 --> 00:17:44,667
We tried the case
in August of 1997.
355
00:17:44,667 --> 00:17:46,367
[Richard Ofshe]
I would get to explain
356
00:17:46,367 --> 00:17:50,000
innocent people did
sometimes give confessions
357
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:50,655
to crimes they didn't commit,
358
00:17:50,655 --> 00:17:52,166
to crimes they didn't commit,
359
00:17:52,166 --> 00:17:55,867
that this was not some
bizarre hoax.
360
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,867
[John Miller] Larry Hall,
after being convicted of
the murder of Jessica Roach,
361
00:18:09,867 --> 00:18:12,867
appeals and he wins
a new trial.
362
00:18:12,867 --> 00:18:15,000
He's still being held
in prison,
363
00:18:15,066 --> 00:18:18,367
but this entire case
is about to be relitigated.
364
00:18:18,367 --> 00:18:22,700
[Levin] So the second trial,
they have that
third-party expert
365
00:18:22,767 --> 00:18:25,500
talking about how
people can be coerced
366
00:18:25,567 --> 00:18:26,767
into false confessions.
367
00:18:27,867 --> 00:18:29,867
[Richard Ofshe]
Why would anyone
368
00:18:29,867 --> 00:18:31,867
give a false confession?
369
00:18:31,867 --> 00:18:33,415
The first major step
370
00:18:33,415 --> 00:18:33,500
The first major step
371
00:18:33,567 --> 00:18:36,266
is to try to make
the person believe
372
00:18:36,266 --> 00:18:38,867
that their situation
is hopeless.
373
00:18:38,867 --> 00:18:41,700
And if you can also lie
to them about the evidence,
374
00:18:41,767 --> 00:18:43,300
it becomes child's play
375
00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:46,867
to get somebody to think,
"I may have
committed the crime."
376
00:18:50,467 --> 00:18:52,066
[Roach]
You're always nervous.
377
00:18:53,567 --> 00:18:55,567
The jury is a different jury.
378
00:18:57,100 --> 00:18:59,266
[John Miller]
But the jury's conclusion
was the same.
379
00:18:59,266 --> 00:19:01,000
They agreed
with the first jury.
380
00:19:01,066 --> 00:19:03,367
He was convicted
and sentenced to life
381
00:19:03,367 --> 00:19:03,415
without the possibility
of parole.
382
00:19:03,415 --> 00:19:05,166
without the possibility
of parole.
383
00:19:06,166 --> 00:19:09,467
The problem was,
then the case was appealed.
384
00:19:09,467 --> 00:19:13,667
He had every reason to believe
he would win another appeal.
385
00:19:13,667 --> 00:19:16,166
Typically, it could take
as much as a year or two
386
00:19:16,166 --> 00:19:19,767
for the appeals court to rule.
387
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,166
[Jackson]
While they're waiting
for their second appeal,
388
00:19:25,166 --> 00:19:27,467
the prosecutor refuses
to sit still.
389
00:19:27,467 --> 00:19:31,166
He wants to do something
for Tricia Reitler's family.
390
00:19:31,166 --> 00:19:33,415
[Beaumont] I ended up seeing
Tricia Reitler's family
391
00:19:33,415 --> 00:19:33,600
[Beaumont] I ended up seeing
Tricia Reitler's family
392
00:19:33,667 --> 00:19:37,800
suffering deeply because
they never found her body.
393
00:19:37,867 --> 00:19:39,100
So there was no closure.
394
00:19:39,166 --> 00:19:41,100
The only person
that would actually know
395
00:19:41,166 --> 00:19:43,667
where that body was,
was Larry Hall.
396
00:19:43,667 --> 00:19:47,000
The question was
getting Larry Hall to tell us.
397
00:19:47,066 --> 00:19:49,867
[Jordan] Prosecutor Beaumont
comes up with a scheme
398
00:19:49,867 --> 00:19:53,800
to take an undercover
operative to gain the trust
of Larry Hall,
399
00:19:53,867 --> 00:19:56,000
so that they can get
the information
400
00:19:56,066 --> 00:19:58,967
about where the bodies
could be buried.
401
00:19:58,967 --> 00:20:02,400
[Beaumont] The easiest
way was to get somebody
that's already in prison.
402
00:20:02,467 --> 00:20:03,415
And I love the idea
of using a criminal
to catch a criminal.
403
00:20:03,415 --> 00:20:06,000
And I love the idea
of using a criminal
to catch a criminal.
404
00:20:06,066 --> 00:20:10,166
[Jackson] First, Beaumont
had to find the right
convict for the job.
405
00:20:10,166 --> 00:20:12,000
Someone who's
got the gift of gab,
406
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,266
who can gain
someone's confidence,
407
00:20:14,266 --> 00:20:17,767
and create a relationship
with Larry Hall.
408
00:20:17,767 --> 00:20:19,166
James Keene.
409
00:20:19,166 --> 00:20:20,667
[interviewer]
Do you prefer James?
410
00:20:20,667 --> 00:20:22,467
I go by Jimmy, actually.
411
00:20:22,467 --> 00:20:25,467
[John Miller]
Jimmy Keene, he's a criminal.
412
00:20:25,467 --> 00:20:28,467
But almost everybody
who dealt with Jimmy Keene,
413
00:20:28,467 --> 00:20:31,300
even in his life of crime,
liked him.
414
00:20:31,367 --> 00:20:33,415
He was a likeable guy.
415
00:20:33,415 --> 00:20:33,500
He was a likeable guy.
416
00:20:33,567 --> 00:20:36,000
He was also
in serious trouble.
417
00:20:36,066 --> 00:20:39,266
He's doing a ten-year bit
in federal prison.
418
00:20:40,266 --> 00:20:44,000
[Levin] Larry Beaumont met
with Jimmy.
419
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,567
He slid the manila
folder over to me.
420
00:20:46,567 --> 00:20:50,367
Then when I opened it up,
there was a picture of
a young, dead girl.
421
00:20:52,300 --> 00:20:55,000
We know that
Larry had a type.
422
00:20:55,000 --> 00:21:01,166
The typical target was
someone with darker brown,
long, curly hair.
423
00:21:01,166 --> 00:21:03,415
Fairly dark eyes,
and they were smaller
in stature.
424
00:21:03,415 --> 00:21:04,500
Fairly dark eyes,
and they were smaller
in stature.
425
00:21:04,567 --> 00:21:07,800
[Levin] And who did
those women look like?
426
00:21:07,867 --> 00:21:11,567
They looked like
Gary's first wife.
427
00:21:11,567 --> 00:21:15,166
I think that
Gary's marriage
428
00:21:15,166 --> 00:21:18,300
and subsequent
moving out of the house
had an effect.
429
00:21:18,367 --> 00:21:21,000
[D'Ambrosia] This was
a trauma for him.
430
00:21:21,066 --> 00:21:25,266
Larry felt
completely abandoned,
out of his depth
431
00:21:25,266 --> 00:21:28,800
and unsure of how
to get through life without
his twin brother.
432
00:21:28,867 --> 00:21:32,100
About that time of
the marriage
433
00:21:32,100 --> 00:21:33,415
is when Larry
begins to become more
aggressive.
434
00:21:33,415 --> 00:21:37,867
is when Larry
begins to become more
aggressive.
435
00:21:37,867 --> 00:21:41,700
I think that
the separation from
Gary was huge
436
00:21:41,767 --> 00:21:43,900
precipitating
stressor for Larry.
437
00:21:43,967 --> 00:21:47,667
[Levin] So it could point to
why Larry
438
00:21:47,667 --> 00:21:51,200
targeted women
with that hairstyle,
439
00:21:51,266 --> 00:21:54,100
and that size,
and that physique.
440
00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:58,767
I was looking for
Tricia Reitler's body,
441
00:21:58,767 --> 00:22:03,415
befriend Larry Hall,
and get Larry Hall to tell him
where that body was.
442
00:22:03,415 --> 00:22:03,900
befriend Larry Hall,
and get Larry Hall to tell him
where that body was.
443
00:22:03,967 --> 00:22:07,767
So that's your mission.
Find the body.
444
00:22:07,767 --> 00:22:12,800
I said, "So, what can I do?"
He says, "We're wanting
to send you into
445
00:22:12,867 --> 00:22:18,100
a maximum-security
penitentiary that has
a psych wing."
446
00:22:18,100 --> 00:22:20,967
[Beaumont] The Medical
Center at the Federal
Bureau of Prisons
447
00:22:20,967 --> 00:22:22,567
in Springfield,
Missouri.
448
00:22:22,567 --> 00:22:27,000
He's going in with a bunch
of people who are convicted
of terrible murders.
449
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,767
Obviously,
it's dangerous.
450
00:22:28,767 --> 00:22:30,166
And he says, "Jimmy."
He says, "Listen.
451
00:22:30,166 --> 00:22:32,467
We're willing
to make this worth
your while.
452
00:22:32,467 --> 00:22:33,415
We're willing
to completely wash
your record."
453
00:22:33,415 --> 00:22:35,567
We're willing
to completely wash
your record."
454
00:22:35,567 --> 00:22:37,500
He's being
offered his release
from prison.
455
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,467
I decide that
I'm going to do it.
456
00:22:42,567 --> 00:22:45,467
I had pictures,
I had detailed notes
of everything.
457
00:22:45,467 --> 00:22:47,700
So at night,
when everybody would
go to sleep,
458
00:22:47,767 --> 00:22:52,000
I would read up on him
to get a feeling
of his personality,
459
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,166
all the insights
I could find about him.
460
00:23:01,367 --> 00:23:03,415
Until we started
taking the drive
to Springfield,
461
00:23:03,415 --> 00:23:03,867
Until we started
taking the drive
to Springfield,
462
00:23:03,867 --> 00:23:07,667
and this is just as
the light's starting to come
up on the horizon.
463
00:23:07,667 --> 00:23:09,867
So you can see
the prison glistening.
464
00:23:09,867 --> 00:23:12,600
I looked at it
and I thought, oh, my gosh.
You know, I mean...
465
00:23:12,667 --> 00:23:14,700
And I did.
I started to get cold feet.
466
00:23:14,767 --> 00:23:17,867
I'm classified
as a low-level,
nonviolent offender.
467
00:23:17,867 --> 00:23:23,200
But I'm going to go
into a maximum-security prison
with a violent offender.
468
00:23:23,266 --> 00:23:26,867
In a whole world
of violent offenders,
could I do this?
469
00:23:26,867 --> 00:23:29,867
There's a term in prison.
"Snitches get stitches."
470
00:23:29,867 --> 00:23:33,415
So they don't look
kindly upon people who rat out
other prisoners.
471
00:23:33,415 --> 00:23:33,800
So they don't look
kindly upon people who rat out
other prisoners.
472
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,367
Welcome back to
Very Scary People.
473
00:23:49,367 --> 00:23:52,500
Larry Dwayne Hall
knew he was locked
up for life,
474
00:23:52,567 --> 00:23:54,900
with no possibility
of parole.
475
00:23:54,967 --> 00:23:59,200
But what Hall did not know
was that his trusted
new friend on the cell block
476
00:23:59,266 --> 00:24:01,700
was actually
a government operative.
477
00:24:01,767 --> 00:24:04,200
A plant sent in
by the prosecutor
478
00:24:04,266 --> 00:24:06,667
to get him
to reveal the precise location
479
00:24:06,667 --> 00:24:09,867
of missing murder victim,
Tricia Reitler.
480
00:24:09,867 --> 00:24:10,001
[prisoners shouting
indistinctly]
481
00:24:10,001 --> 00:24:11,367
[prisoners shouting
indistinctly]
482
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,667
I was sitting around
in the cell
for maybe five minutes
483
00:24:17,667 --> 00:24:19,033
and the
morning bell rang.
484
00:24:19,066 --> 00:24:21,100
-[bell ringing]
-And I had no idea
where I was going.
485
00:24:21,100 --> 00:24:22,900
And so I just
kind of followed
the crowd.
486
00:24:22,967 --> 00:24:26,166
Keene gets into
that federal prison,
the first thing he does
487
00:24:26,166 --> 00:24:29,266
is he bumps into
Larry Hall. And when I say
bumps into him,
488
00:24:29,266 --> 00:24:32,500
he actually
bumps into him
on purpose.
489
00:24:32,567 --> 00:24:35,000
[Keene] When I seen him,
I said, "Oh, excuse me.
I'm new here."
490
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,667
I said, "You wouldn't
happen to know where
the library is, would you?
491
00:24:37,667 --> 00:24:40,001
He says, "The library
is down the hallway."
492
00:24:40,001 --> 00:24:40,667
He says, "The library
is down the hallway."
493
00:24:40,667 --> 00:24:42,166
I kind of slapped
him on the shoulder
and I said,
494
00:24:42,166 --> 00:24:45,500
"Thanks a lot.
I appreciate that
from a cool guy like you."
495
00:24:45,567 --> 00:24:48,000
And he says,
"You think I'm cool?"
496
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,667
He looks at me
in this bizarre, spaced-out
fashion. He says,
497
00:24:51,667 --> 00:24:54,166
"Do you want
me to show you where
the library's at?"
498
00:24:54,166 --> 00:24:55,634
I was like,
"Yeah."
499
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,600
[Levin] Jimmy
approached Larry eventually
in the library,
500
00:25:02,667 --> 00:25:06,600
where he knew Larry
would look at the Wabash
hometown papers.
501
00:25:06,667 --> 00:25:10,001
I had slowly
built up a friendship
in that way.
502
00:25:10,001 --> 00:25:10,066
I had slowly
built up a friendship
in that way.
503
00:25:10,066 --> 00:25:15,000
Since they were both
from the same region,
Larry was guarded.
504
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,367
But he truly
did want Jimmy's
friendship.
505
00:25:19,367 --> 00:25:21,266
I think he did look at me
as an older brother.
506
00:25:21,266 --> 00:25:24,667
A much cooler
version of his brother.
507
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:32,900
Jimmy Keene is
playing a psychological
strategy game
508
00:25:32,967 --> 00:25:36,667
to get into Larry Hall's
field of trust.
509
00:25:36,667 --> 00:25:40,001
You're not
going to tell people
who you killed
510
00:25:40,001 --> 00:25:40,166
You're not
going to tell people
who you killed
511
00:25:40,166 --> 00:25:43,567
or literally where
the bodies are buried
unless you trust them.
512
00:25:43,567 --> 00:25:46,100
And he's
trying to accelerate
this process.
513
00:25:46,166 --> 00:25:50,166
[John Miller] Jimmy realized
that a few things were
real important
514
00:25:50,166 --> 00:25:53,600
in Larry's life
at the point.
515
00:25:53,667 --> 00:25:58,667
One of them
was watching TV
and America's Most Wanted.
516
00:25:58,667 --> 00:26:02,567
[narrator] Now from
our Washington crime center,
John Walsh.
517
00:26:02,567 --> 00:26:04,867
[John Miller]
Larry and his friends
really loved seeing
518
00:26:04,867 --> 00:26:09,066
anything about
serial killers
on television.
519
00:26:09,066 --> 00:26:10,001
[Keene] This big guy
decided he was going to
turn the TV channel.
520
00:26:10,001 --> 00:26:12,000
[Keene] This big guy
decided he was going to
turn the TV channel.
521
00:26:13,066 --> 00:26:15,600
Larry was
terrified of the guy.
522
00:26:15,667 --> 00:26:18,300
I walked up
to the TV and I turned
the channel back.
523
00:26:18,367 --> 00:26:19,667
He jumped up.
524
00:26:19,700 --> 00:26:22,066
"You touch that
TV again, I'm going to
rip your head off."
525
00:26:22,066 --> 00:26:23,667
He turns the channel back.
526
00:26:23,667 --> 00:26:27,300
When he sat back down,
I pushed the button
and turned it again.
527
00:26:27,367 --> 00:26:30,166
Now I know
it's pretty much on
at that point.
528
00:26:30,166 --> 00:26:33,066
He takes a wild
haymaker swing at me.
529
00:26:33,066 --> 00:26:35,700
And then
I kicked him through
three rows of chairs.
530
00:26:39,467 --> 00:26:40,001
He was beat up
real bad and had to go
to the hospital.
531
00:26:40,001 --> 00:26:41,967
He was beat up
real bad and had to go
to the hospital.
532
00:26:41,967 --> 00:26:45,567
[John Miller] Jimmy
showed his loyalty to
Larry that way.
533
00:26:45,567 --> 00:26:49,867
And that really was,
I think, the key in developing
that friendship.
534
00:26:49,867 --> 00:26:54,600
[John Miller] At this point,
Jimmy felt he could
accelerate the relationship.
535
00:26:54,667 --> 00:26:56,800
But now,
he has to get Larry Hall
to open up.
536
00:26:56,867 --> 00:26:58,600
And it dawned on me.
537
00:26:58,667 --> 00:27:00,467
The Wabash Plain Dealer.
538
00:27:00,467 --> 00:27:03,367
I said, "You know,
my mom was real close
to the Indiana border.
539
00:27:03,367 --> 00:27:05,567
And she gets
the Wabash Plain Dealer."
540
00:27:05,567 --> 00:27:09,767
And I said,
"That Wabash Plain Dealer has
several stories about you
541
00:27:09,767 --> 00:27:10,001
killing lots of
different girls."
And he looked at me.
542
00:27:10,001 --> 00:27:13,266
killing lots of
different girls."
And he looked at me.
543
00:27:13,266 --> 00:27:14,867
And his eyes bugged
out of his head,
544
00:27:14,867 --> 00:27:16,767
and he starts,
in a pleading way,
545
00:27:16,767 --> 00:27:20,100
he says,
"You know, James,
it's not like they say.
546
00:27:20,100 --> 00:27:23,400
It's not... It didn't
happen that way. It didn't
happen that way."
547
00:27:23,467 --> 00:27:26,700
And he starts to
give incriminating details.
548
00:27:26,767 --> 00:27:30,367
I had to sit there
and let this piece of human
garbage say whatever
549
00:27:30,367 --> 00:27:33,200
he's going to say,
but at least
he's talking.
550
00:27:47,266 --> 00:27:52,300
And it took
Jimmy Keene months
to get Larry to open up.
551
00:27:52,367 --> 00:27:57,567
Larry starts,
in a pleading way, "No, James,
it's not like they say.
552
00:27:57,567 --> 00:28:00,100
It didn't happen that way.
It didn't happen that way.
553
00:28:00,100 --> 00:28:02,567
Those girls all liked me.
They all liked me."
554
00:28:02,567 --> 00:28:07,767
He would talk about
the victims as though
they were his girlfriends.
555
00:28:08,767 --> 00:28:11,493
He describes
those things almost like a,
556
00:28:11,493 --> 00:28:11,600
He describes
those things almost like a,
557
00:28:11,667 --> 00:28:13,767
you know, relationship
kind of way.
558
00:28:13,767 --> 00:28:15,467
"I just wanted
to be with the girl."
559
00:28:15,467 --> 00:28:17,300
Those are
not things that
were alarming
560
00:28:17,367 --> 00:28:20,000
until you realize
this is what this means.
561
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,367
"Be with somebody"
means raping
and killing them.
562
00:28:25,567 --> 00:28:28,367
[Keene] Once I got him
to feel comfortable,
563
00:28:28,367 --> 00:28:32,100
I said, "Well, what really
happened, you know,
with Tricia Reitler?
564
00:28:32,100 --> 00:28:33,800
What happened with her?"
565
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:39,100
[Levin] Then Larry
started giving up more
and more about what her knew.
566
00:28:39,166 --> 00:28:41,493
Some details
that had not previously
come out.
567
00:28:41,493 --> 00:28:42,900
Some details
that had not previously
come out.
568
00:28:42,967 --> 00:28:46,166
[Keene] He said that
he had seen her walking
down the street,
569
00:28:46,166 --> 00:28:48,900
and he had pulled up
to her and he started
talking to her.
570
00:28:48,967 --> 00:28:50,900
Said that she was very nice.
571
00:28:50,967 --> 00:28:55,400
And when he went to make
an aggressive, forward move
towards her to kiss her,
572
00:28:55,467 --> 00:28:59,100
she stopped him.
And he went to grab
for her again.
573
00:28:59,166 --> 00:29:01,467
And she put up
a really big fight
with him.
574
00:29:01,467 --> 00:29:05,066
I could see her fighting
and doing all the things
575
00:29:05,066 --> 00:29:09,166
that Larry
described that she
did to him.
576
00:29:09,166 --> 00:29:11,493
It certainly
fit her personality.
577
00:29:11,493 --> 00:29:12,100
It certainly
fit her personality.
578
00:29:12,166 --> 00:29:14,367
They were in
for one heck of a fight.
579
00:29:14,367 --> 00:29:15,900
She wasn't
going to go easy.
580
00:29:19,300 --> 00:29:22,500
[Jackson] The attack
on Tricia Reitler was not
only terrifying
581
00:29:22,567 --> 00:29:25,000
because of how
brutally violent it was,
582
00:29:25,066 --> 00:29:28,300
but because of
how prepared Larry Hall
seemed to be,
583
00:29:28,367 --> 00:29:30,867
because of the
murder kit in his van.
584
00:29:30,867 --> 00:29:33,200
[Keene] His van was a little
house of horror.
585
00:29:33,266 --> 00:29:35,166
I mean, he had
that thing set up
586
00:29:35,166 --> 00:29:37,600
that once he's got
you in there, you're not
getting out of there.
587
00:29:37,667 --> 00:29:39,667
He would
shackle you down.
588
00:29:39,667 --> 00:29:41,493
He had tarps down
all over the main floors,
589
00:29:41,493 --> 00:29:41,800
He had tarps down
all over the main floors,
590
00:29:41,867 --> 00:29:45,600
so no DNA
could ever get put down
to the main floor.
591
00:29:45,667 --> 00:29:47,200
And he has
an out-of-body experience.
592
00:29:47,266 --> 00:29:50,200
And he says
he sees him choking her.
593
00:29:50,266 --> 00:29:52,867
When he wakes up,
both their clothes are off.
594
00:29:52,867 --> 00:29:57,166
And he's laying next to her.
And he says,
"I did it again."
595
00:29:57,166 --> 00:29:59,667
The evil side of him
killed the girl.
596
00:30:03,367 --> 00:30:07,000
Now he panicked.
And he didn't know what
to do with this one here.
597
00:30:07,066 --> 00:30:10,467
So he drove to
his home, which was about
20 minutes away.
598
00:30:10,467 --> 00:30:11,493
He got some lime together,
he got a shovel
and he got a lantern,
599
00:30:11,493 --> 00:30:13,467
He got some lime together,
he got a shovel
and he got a lantern,
600
00:30:13,467 --> 00:30:15,166
and he drove her
way out into the woods
601
00:30:15,166 --> 00:30:17,800
and he buried
her out in the woods.
602
00:30:17,867 --> 00:30:22,166
That was another element
of the crime that he hadn't
talked about previously.
603
00:30:25,367 --> 00:30:28,367
What Jimmy Keene
needs from Larry is,
he needs more.
604
00:30:28,367 --> 00:30:31,700
He needs Larry
to tell him about the murder
of Tricia Reitler
605
00:30:31,767 --> 00:30:34,066
and where that body is.
606
00:30:34,066 --> 00:30:36,800
[Jordan] Jimmy Keene
stepped into
the prison workshop.
607
00:30:36,867 --> 00:30:39,867
And he saw Larry Hall.
He had a map.
608
00:30:39,867 --> 00:30:41,493
He immediately
dove on that map
and covered the map up.
609
00:30:41,493 --> 00:30:43,066
He immediately
dove on that map
and covered the map up.
610
00:30:43,066 --> 00:30:46,700
[Jordan] But not
before Jimmy Keene sees
that there's this
611
00:30:46,767 --> 00:30:52,300
map of Illinois and Indiana
with red dots distributed
around that map
612
00:30:52,367 --> 00:30:56,967
that would indicate,
perhaps, the location
of the burial sites.
613
00:30:56,967 --> 00:31:00,367
[Keene] And I come up
over his shoulder, and I grab
one of the falcons.
614
00:31:00,367 --> 00:31:03,100
And I said," Wow,
this is pretty cool, Larry."
I said, "What is this?"
615
00:31:03,100 --> 00:31:06,367
He says, "They watch
over the dead."
616
00:31:06,367 --> 00:31:11,493
Larry Hall had carved
falcons to symbolically fly
over the crime scenes.
617
00:31:11,493 --> 00:31:12,667
Larry Hall had carved
falcons to symbolically fly
over the crime scenes.
618
00:31:12,667 --> 00:31:17,667
[Johnston] And to Jimmy Keene,
he immediately feels like he
has basically won the lottery
619
00:31:17,667 --> 00:31:20,767
in terms of
figuring out where all
these bodies are.
620
00:31:20,767 --> 00:31:23,867
Jimmy Keene
calls his handler on
the outside.
621
00:31:23,867 --> 00:31:27,367
[Keene] I did try to make
a call to the FBI
when I left the woodshop.
622
00:31:27,367 --> 00:31:30,166
I left a message
that I thought I had
this whole thing solved
623
00:31:30,166 --> 00:31:32,100
and we needed to talk.
624
00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:35,767
I went back
to my cell
and I felt that I had
625
00:31:35,767 --> 00:31:39,100
pretty much tied this up
in a nice little bow.
626
00:31:39,166 --> 00:31:41,493
[Levin] He felt the
authorities were ready
627
00:31:41,493 --> 00:31:41,667
[Levin] He felt the
authorities were ready
628
00:31:41,667 --> 00:31:45,266
to rush into Springfield,
get him out.
629
00:31:45,266 --> 00:31:49,600
The FBI has told me
they'll have me out of here
on a 24-hour notice.
630
00:31:49,667 --> 00:31:52,767
[Jordan] Just when
he's on the edge
of really
631
00:31:52,767 --> 00:31:55,867
breaking Larry Hall
and getting that information
the police need,
632
00:31:55,867 --> 00:32:00,367
he makes the really
tragic error of blowing up
on Larry Hall.
633
00:32:00,367 --> 00:32:04,000
[John Miller] Of course,
none of this, because they
were in prison, was on tape.
634
00:32:04,066 --> 00:32:06,467
But it has been
pretty well dramatized
635
00:32:06,467 --> 00:32:09,500
on the Apple TV
original series Black Bird.
636
00:32:10,667 --> 00:32:11,493
You demented
[bleep] monster!
637
00:32:11,493 --> 00:32:14,166
You demented
[bleep] monster!
638
00:32:18,467 --> 00:32:20,467
Beaumont sent you, didn't he?
639
00:32:24,166 --> 00:32:26,166
He did, didn't he?
640
00:32:26,166 --> 00:32:27,567
[Keene] I said,
"You're going to sit here
and rot
641
00:32:27,567 --> 00:32:29,467
the rest of your life."
642
00:32:29,467 --> 00:32:31,467
And I went back
across to my cell.
643
00:32:31,467 --> 00:32:34,767
And I thought,
you know, good.
644
00:32:34,767 --> 00:32:39,567
[Jackson] But the problem
is the FBI handler didn't get
the message right away.
645
00:32:39,567 --> 00:32:41,493
Hall now had
the time to dispose of the map
and the falcons.
646
00:32:41,493 --> 00:32:44,300
Hall now had
the time to dispose of the map
and the falcons.
647
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:48,867
[Johnston] I think his
survival mode kicks in.
648
00:32:48,867 --> 00:32:54,567
If the find this map
and these falcons, but in
particularly the map,
649
00:32:54,567 --> 00:32:55,900
the gig could be up.
650
00:32:55,967 --> 00:33:02,000
And the map
and the falcons were
probably destroyed.
651
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,300
We needed
a specific location.
That, we didn't get.
652
00:33:05,367 --> 00:33:08,867
[Beaumont] And they brought
Jimmy straight back to my
office in Central Illinois.
653
00:33:08,867 --> 00:33:11,300
And he was
interviewed, debriefed.
654
00:33:11,367 --> 00:33:11,493
I made arrangements for
Jimmy to take a polygraph test
655
00:33:11,493 --> 00:33:14,000
I made arrangements for
Jimmy to take a polygraph test
656
00:33:14,066 --> 00:33:17,700
to verify what
he told us during
the debriefing.
657
00:33:17,767 --> 00:33:20,767
I was comfortable
that what he was
telling us was true.
658
00:33:20,767 --> 00:33:23,000
[Jackson]
The prosecutor felt
that Jimmy Keene
659
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,500
had gotten enough
information and confession
660
00:33:25,567 --> 00:33:30,266
from Larry
to really call the operation
an overall success.
661
00:33:30,266 --> 00:33:33,000
He releases
Jimmy Keene from prison.
662
00:33:33,066 --> 00:33:36,800
I filed a motion
to give Jimmy Keene
credit for time served.
663
00:33:36,867 --> 00:33:39,100
And the judge
agreed to do that.
664
00:33:39,100 --> 00:33:41,493
[Levin] Coincidentally,
the appeals court did rule
on the second trial.
665
00:33:41,493 --> 00:33:44,000
[Levin] Coincidentally,
the appeals court did rule
on the second trial.
666
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,300
And Larry's
appeal was denied.
667
00:33:47,367 --> 00:33:50,367
The Larry Hall
horror show did not end
with Jimmy Keene.
668
00:34:00,066 --> 00:34:01,767
[Jackson] The fierce
interest in Larry Hall
has never stopped.
669
00:34:01,767 --> 00:34:06,166
Investigators are still
probing into his background
and past history
670
00:34:06,166 --> 00:34:08,100
to determine what
he's been involved with.
671
00:34:08,100 --> 00:34:11,400
I did not want
to pretend I thought
he was innocent.
672
00:34:11,467 --> 00:34:13,600
[Jackson]
Author Hillel Levin actually
got permission
673
00:34:13,667 --> 00:34:16,266
to speak with and record
a prison call
674
00:34:16,266 --> 00:34:18,967
that he did with
Larry Hall for his book.
675
00:34:21,700 --> 00:34:26,166
The writer asks
Larry about his pattern of
recanting confessions,
676
00:34:26,166 --> 00:34:27,767
saying they're
all dreams.
677
00:34:27,767 --> 00:34:28,119
I said to him,
"Do you think the dreams
are really the window
678
00:34:28,119 --> 00:34:31,767
I said to him,
"Do you think the dreams
are really the window
679
00:34:31,767 --> 00:34:37,100
through which
the good Larry is looking at
what the bad Larry is doing?"
680
00:34:37,100 --> 00:34:38,700
And his response was...
681
00:35:02,467 --> 00:35:06,500
Larry Hall went on to
admit that he would habitually
show up at crime scenes
682
00:35:06,567 --> 00:35:08,467
in the aftermath
of his attack.
683
00:35:15,867 --> 00:35:22,266
It is certainly not uncommon
for serial killers, sexually
motivated offenders
684
00:35:22,266 --> 00:35:25,567
to insert themselves
into a search.
685
00:35:25,567 --> 00:35:28,119
He was actually
around when they were looking
for Tricia Reitler.
686
00:35:28,119 --> 00:35:29,300
He was actually
around when they were looking
for Tricia Reitler.
687
00:35:29,367 --> 00:35:32,767
When she was first
kidnapped, he was, like,
trying to help the police.
688
00:35:32,767 --> 00:35:34,166
So he was at the scene.
689
00:35:45,100 --> 00:35:48,166
[Howard]
We know that Grace
was sexually assaulted.
690
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,367
We know that she
was probably strangled.
691
00:35:51,367 --> 00:35:55,000
And that led me
to Larry Hall.
692
00:35:56,567 --> 00:35:58,119
I needed to hear from him.
I needed to see him.
693
00:35:58,119 --> 00:35:59,266
I needed to hear from him.
I needed to see him.
694
00:36:09,667 --> 00:36:13,166
The very moment that
I walked into that room
and he sat across from me,
695
00:36:13,166 --> 00:36:16,066
he reached out and he said,
"Thank you for coming."
696
00:36:16,066 --> 00:36:19,500
He was speaking
to me a great deal
about Jessica.
697
00:36:19,567 --> 00:36:21,667
He talks about
strangling her.
698
00:36:21,667 --> 00:36:25,000
And he's giving me
a very graphic description
699
00:36:25,066 --> 00:36:27,500
of what that sounds like
and what that looks like.
700
00:36:29,100 --> 00:36:32,667
But during this,
they bring him in lunch.
701
00:36:32,667 --> 00:36:37,300
And he stops,
and apologizes for eating
in front of me.
702
00:36:37,367 --> 00:36:40,300
Then, he picked
right back up,
703
00:36:40,367 --> 00:36:42,800
talking about
the most horrific
and gruesome things
704
00:36:42,867 --> 00:36:45,867
that one person
can do to another
human being.
705
00:36:45,867 --> 00:36:49,100
No remorse, no guilt about
the suffering of others.
706
00:36:50,500 --> 00:36:54,000
[Howard] I slid a picture
of Grace across.
707
00:36:54,066 --> 00:36:57,367
And I flipped it over.
And I said,
"Did you kill her?"
708
00:36:57,367 --> 00:36:58,119
And he said,
"Nope. She's not mine."
709
00:36:58,119 --> 00:36:59,867
And he said,
"Nope. She's not mine."
710
00:36:59,867 --> 00:37:03,400
Larry gave me back
my picture of Grace Doe.
711
00:37:03,467 --> 00:37:06,667
And what he said
after that was,
"I did not kill her.
712
00:37:06,667 --> 00:37:10,800
But I did kill
the Springfield Three."
713
00:37:10,867 --> 00:37:13,867
[male reporter 1] Calls like
this keep coming into the
Springfield Police Department
714
00:37:13,867 --> 00:37:16,600
from people
with information about
Stacy McCall,
715
00:37:16,667 --> 00:37:19,667
Suzanne Streeter
and Sherrill Levitt.
716
00:37:19,667 --> 00:37:23,467
[Howard]
Suzie Streeter and Sherrill,
mother and daughter.
717
00:37:23,467 --> 00:37:26,700
Suzie was the daughter.
And then the friend
was Stacy McCall.
718
00:37:26,767 --> 00:37:28,119
They disappeared
one night coming home,
early in the morning.
719
00:37:28,119 --> 00:37:31,467
They disappeared
one night coming home,
early in the morning.
720
00:37:31,467 --> 00:37:35,266
[male reporter 2] Police have
set up this 24-hour command
post on East Delmar,
721
00:37:35,266 --> 00:37:39,166
hoping someone comes
forward with information about
the missing women.
722
00:37:39,166 --> 00:37:43,567
There was a witness
that came forward in that
particular case that said,
723
00:37:43,567 --> 00:37:46,600
"We saw a brown and tan van."
724
00:37:46,667 --> 00:37:49,600
The same weekend
that the Springfield Three
disappeared,
725
00:37:49,667 --> 00:37:52,166
there was
a Civil War reenactment.
726
00:37:52,166 --> 00:37:54,367
[Howard] It was
the anniversary of
the Battle of Wilson's Creek.
727
00:37:54,367 --> 00:37:56,867
And Larry was in the area.
728
00:37:56,867 --> 00:37:58,119
Detective Howard
asked Larry Hall
729
00:37:58,119 --> 00:37:59,700
Detective Howard
asked Larry Hall
730
00:37:59,767 --> 00:38:02,367
where the Springfield
Three were buried.
731
00:38:02,367 --> 00:38:04,300
[Howard] And he says,
"They're in
the Mark Twain Forest."
732
00:38:06,066 --> 00:38:08,266
And he mentions
his brother Gary.
733
00:38:08,266 --> 00:38:10,467
Larry stated more than
one time to me
734
00:38:10,467 --> 00:38:14,200
that Gary was
the driving force behind
killing these girls.
735
00:38:14,266 --> 00:38:16,700
Gary would
tell him what to do
and Larry would do it.
736
00:38:16,767 --> 00:38:20,967
He wanted me to
see that his brother
was equally responsible.
737
00:38:20,967 --> 00:38:24,967
But I have no
evidence to say that Gary
was involved.
738
00:38:24,967 --> 00:38:26,867
But certainly,
Larry believes it.
739
00:38:26,867 --> 00:38:28,119
[Miller] I think
what Larry Hall did,
he did alone.
740
00:38:28,119 --> 00:38:30,600
[Miller] I think
what Larry Hall did,
he did alone.
741
00:38:30,667 --> 00:38:32,767
He enjoyed being
alone when he did 'em.
742
00:38:35,867 --> 00:38:39,166
I was shocked by
the obvious pathology
743
00:38:39,166 --> 00:38:43,166
that lead Larry
to do the awful things
that he's done.
744
00:38:43,166 --> 00:38:46,867
It really made me
think about how does
it manifest
745
00:38:46,867 --> 00:38:49,467
when you have
an identical twin?
746
00:38:49,467 --> 00:38:56,066
Are the personalities
in any way connected
or are they so divergent?
747
00:38:56,066 --> 00:38:58,119
There have been
pairs of serial killers
748
00:38:58,119 --> 00:38:58,567
There have been
pairs of serial killers
749
00:38:58,567 --> 00:39:01,967
that have worked
in tandem in the past.
But they are incredibly rare.
750
00:39:01,967 --> 00:39:05,700
Even though it's really
tempting to think that
his twin brother Gary
751
00:39:05,767 --> 00:39:08,467
could be involved
in some of these
missing women,
752
00:39:08,467 --> 00:39:13,367
there is absolutely
no evidence other than
Larry Hall suggesting it.
753
00:39:13,367 --> 00:39:15,867
Yeah, I could say
I suspected some things,
754
00:39:15,867 --> 00:39:20,667
but I've never had
evidence of Gary Hall
doing any wrongdoing.
755
00:39:36,867 --> 00:39:43,000
[Howard]
Gary is very, very adamant
that his brother is
756
00:39:43,066 --> 00:39:46,600
completely and totally
100 percent responsible
for all of these things.
757
00:39:53,467 --> 00:39:58,119
[Jordan] Larry Hall
has confessed to
dozens of murders.
758
00:39:58,119 --> 00:39:58,500
[Jordan] Larry Hall
has confessed to
dozens of murders.
759
00:39:58,567 --> 00:40:01,767
He recants everything,
making him either
760
00:40:01,767 --> 00:40:04,600
one of the most
prolific serial killers
in history
761
00:40:04,667 --> 00:40:07,367
who's gotten away
with it or
762
00:40:07,367 --> 00:40:11,567
one of the most
effusive, false confessors
in history.
763
00:40:11,567 --> 00:40:14,266
I think he was
smarter than he was
given credit for.
764
00:40:14,266 --> 00:40:16,367
Could he have
done this on his own?
765
00:40:16,367 --> 00:40:18,867
Would he have?
Did he have help?
766
00:40:18,867 --> 00:40:20,967
[Howard]
It's crucial that you
pick his mind
767
00:40:20,967 --> 00:40:23,166
and get information
out of there.
768
00:40:23,166 --> 00:40:25,767
Because families
are getting older,
769
00:40:25,767 --> 00:40:28,119
nobody deserves to
live an entire life
not knowing what happened
770
00:40:28,119 --> 00:40:30,867
nobody deserves to
live an entire life
not knowing what happened
771
00:40:30,867 --> 00:40:33,600
or to bring
their child home.
772
00:40:33,667 --> 00:40:35,700
Thirty years is
a long time not to know.
773
00:40:35,767 --> 00:40:40,367
Our children
believe it's Larry Hall.
Hands down.
774
00:40:40,367 --> 00:40:42,700
[Donna] Forensically,
there's nothing that links
775
00:40:42,767 --> 00:40:45,266
Larry Hall to
Trisha's disappearance.
776
00:40:45,266 --> 00:40:48,400
[Garry] Two confessions.
And then all
the articles in his van.
777
00:40:48,467 --> 00:40:50,200
-So you have
hopes on that.
-[Donna] Yeah.
778
00:40:50,266 --> 00:40:52,867
[Garry] But then it ends.
There's nothing more
that they can give you.
779
00:40:52,867 --> 00:40:55,867
Until we have something
concrete, you can't really
hang your head on that.
780
00:40:55,967 --> 00:40:57,367
Somebody knows something.
781
00:40:57,367 --> 00:40:58,119
There may be
more people out there
782
00:40:58,119 --> 00:40:59,767
There may be
more people out there
783
00:40:59,767 --> 00:41:04,166
who have something,
something little, you know,
that just maybe
784
00:41:04,166 --> 00:41:06,467
-will be that piece
that ties it together.
-Right.
785
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:08,700
And we hope.
786
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:24,000
The theory of
Larry Dwayne Hall as a false
confessor has faded away.
787
00:41:24,066 --> 00:41:28,000
But the debate about
the full scope of his
reign of terror rages on.
788
00:41:28,066 --> 00:41:28,119
In 1994, his confessed
number of victims was 22.
789
00:41:28,119 --> 00:41:32,467
In 1994, his confessed
number of victims was 22.
790
00:41:32,467 --> 00:41:35,767
Hall later claimed,
in an interview with
the Associated Press,
791
00:41:35,767 --> 00:41:40,467
that he'd picked up
39 women between
1980 and 1994.
792
00:41:40,467 --> 00:41:43,600
Some believe
he may have committed more
than 50 murders.
793
00:41:43,667 --> 00:41:46,100
People close to the case
still have hope
794
00:41:46,166 --> 00:41:49,900
Larry Hall will
one day bring police
to Tricia Reitler's body,
795
00:41:49,967 --> 00:41:52,600
and put an end
to her family's nightmare.
796
00:41:52,667 --> 00:41:55,000
I'm Donnie Wahlberg.
Thank for watching.
797
00:41:55,066 --> 00:41:55,600
Good night.