1 00:00:06,867 --> 00:00:10,367 [Lorie Howard] Larry Hall, he comes across as being very ordinary, 2 00:00:10,367 --> 00:00:13,800 almost seems somewhat child-like at times. 3 00:00:13,867 --> 00:00:16,700 He doesn't look like a monster, 4 00:00:16,767 --> 00:00:19,900 but make no mistake about it, he's a monster. 5 00:00:19,967 --> 00:00:22,700 He talked about the most horrific and gruesome things 6 00:00:22,767 --> 00:00:24,800 that one person can do to another human being, 7 00:00:26,100 --> 00:00:28,600 and didn't see the need to apologize at all, 8 00:00:28,667 --> 00:00:30,000 or show any type of regret... 9 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:30,800 or show any type of regret... 10 00:00:34,500 --> 00:00:36,266 and that's scary. 11 00:00:40,567 --> 00:00:42,567 [theme music playing] 12 00:01:00,700 --> 00:01:02,467 Welcome to Very Scary People. 13 00:01:02,467 --> 00:01:04,367 I'm Donnie Wahlberg. 14 00:01:04,367 --> 00:01:07,300 Masquerading behind the false front of an ordinary man 15 00:01:07,367 --> 00:01:10,467 lived a brutal killer, a stealth predator, 16 00:01:10,467 --> 00:01:13,467 creeping along the barren back roads of central Indiana, 17 00:01:13,467 --> 00:01:16,700 targeting young women to kidnap and kill. 18 00:01:16,767 --> 00:01:19,867 He buried victims' bodies so they'd never be found. 19 00:01:19,867 --> 00:01:22,200 But can this cold-hearted monster be made to reveal 20 00:01:22,266 --> 00:01:24,300 where he hid at least one of them? 21 00:01:24,367 --> 00:01:27,667 A risky plan is launched to find Tricia Reitler's remains 22 00:01:27,667 --> 00:01:30,000 and grant her parents' wish to return her to her family. 23 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:31,400 and grant her parents' wish to return her to her family. 24 00:01:32,166 --> 00:01:34,367 This is part two of "The Twin." 25 00:01:47,300 --> 00:01:49,567 [male reporter] Tricia Reitler took a walk off campus 26 00:01:49,567 --> 00:01:53,467 and never came back to Indiana Wesleyan University. 27 00:01:53,467 --> 00:01:56,867 We've got a missing college student in Indiana. 28 00:01:57,667 --> 00:01:59,667 You look behind every bush. 29 00:01:59,667 --> 00:02:00,000 If there's a dog house, you look in the dog house. 30 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,367 If there's a dog house, you look in the dog house. 31 00:02:02,367 --> 00:02:04,767 If there's a trash can, you look in the trash can. 32 00:02:07,467 --> 00:02:10,066 Not knowing what happened, 33 00:02:10,066 --> 00:02:12,367 where she is, it's a nightmare. 34 00:02:12,367 --> 00:02:14,667 [male reporter] Some of her clothing was found two days later 35 00:02:14,667 --> 00:02:16,700 with a small amount of blood. 36 00:02:16,767 --> 00:02:19,066 Investigators believe Reitler was abducted, 37 00:02:19,066 --> 00:02:21,066 but by whom, where and why? 38 00:02:21,066 --> 00:02:23,066 Some kind of violent altercation occurred. 39 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:26,767 [Casey Jordan] She would've been overpowered. 40 00:02:26,767 --> 00:02:29,500 She was subdued and taken to a different location 41 00:02:29,567 --> 00:02:30,000 where she was most likely assaulted and killed. 42 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,100 where she was most likely assaulted and killed. 43 00:02:33,700 --> 00:02:35,567 [Donna Reitler] She's not just a story, 44 00:02:35,567 --> 00:02:36,800 she's not just a case. 45 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:39,567 She's our... Our daughter. 46 00:02:39,567 --> 00:02:41,500 She's gone, and... 47 00:02:41,567 --> 00:02:43,266 our lives will never be okay. 48 00:02:47,467 --> 00:02:49,600 [female narrator] In September of 1993, 49 00:02:50,567 --> 00:02:53,400 a 15-year-old named Jessica Roach 50 00:02:53,467 --> 00:02:55,700 was out just riding her priced mountain bike 51 00:02:55,767 --> 00:02:57,200 along a rural road. 52 00:03:04,667 --> 00:03:07,467 I picked up a lot of dust going past her, 53 00:03:07,467 --> 00:03:10,467 but I slowed way down, so she pulled off, 54 00:03:10,467 --> 00:03:11,867 stood there, watched me drive by. 55 00:03:11,867 --> 00:03:14,100 waved... Real smiley and waved. 56 00:03:15,166 --> 00:03:18,000 But on her drive home, she sees 57 00:03:18,066 --> 00:03:21,000 Jessica's bike abandoned in the middle of the road. 58 00:03:22,867 --> 00:03:24,467 Oh, my God, she's gone! 59 00:03:24,467 --> 00:03:26,667 [Gary Miller] We do not have a runaway, 60 00:03:26,667 --> 00:03:28,500 we don't have just a missing person. 61 00:03:28,567 --> 00:03:29,867 There was foul play. 62 00:03:34,100 --> 00:03:37,867 Two months later, across the state lines in Indiana... 63 00:03:37,867 --> 00:03:41,467 A farmer was shearing through his corn field, 64 00:03:41,467 --> 00:03:47,767 and he looked down and saw a dark object between the rows of corn. 65 00:03:47,767 --> 00:03:52,867 [Jordan] He's absolutely horrified to discover a dead body. 66 00:03:52,867 --> 00:03:56,000 [Joni Johnston] The medical examiner was able to take one fingerprint. 67 00:03:56,066 --> 00:03:58,667 This was, in fact, Jessica Roach. 68 00:03:58,667 --> 00:04:00,000 [Miller] There were indications in the neck area 69 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,800 [Miller] There were indications in the neck area 70 00:04:01,867 --> 00:04:04,266 of some type of strangulation. 71 00:04:05,867 --> 00:04:09,900 [Johnston] The fact that her body is found across state lines, 72 00:04:09,967 --> 00:04:11,567 several miles away, 73 00:04:11,567 --> 00:04:13,200 adds to the mystery. 74 00:04:13,700 --> 00:04:15,200 Who would do this? 75 00:04:17,266 --> 00:04:20,266 [Jordan] A few months after Jessica Roach's body was found, 76 00:04:20,266 --> 00:04:21,700 two other teenage girls, 77 00:04:21,767 --> 00:04:24,100 also from Georgetown, Illinois, 78 00:04:24,100 --> 00:04:28,066 reported that a man in a van had been stalking them. 79 00:04:28,066 --> 00:04:30,000 We were riding our bikes, 80 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:30,767 We were riding our bikes, 81 00:04:30,767 --> 00:04:34,266 and just appeared this loud van. 82 00:04:34,266 --> 00:04:36,800 He slowed down and, like, stared at us. 83 00:04:36,867 --> 00:04:38,600 He's definitely following us. 84 00:04:39,967 --> 00:04:42,166 And we just took off. 85 00:04:42,166 --> 00:04:44,000 [Kaylen Hoskins] We didn't know what he was gonna do. 86 00:04:44,066 --> 00:04:45,266 All I could see was his headlights 87 00:04:45,266 --> 00:04:47,700 because he was right... Right there behind us. 88 00:04:47,767 --> 00:04:53,000 We cut down an alley where his van was not going to be able to fit through. 89 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,500 Riding as fast as we could to get back to her house. 90 00:04:56,567 --> 00:04:59,700 It's the most terrifying thing that's ever happened to me in my life, 91 00:04:59,767 --> 00:05:00,000 and I'll never forget his face. 92 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,100 and I'll never forget his face. 93 00:05:02,166 --> 00:05:03,867 I just remember seeing like, bushy... 94 00:05:03,867 --> 00:05:06,066 -Weird hair and stuff down the sides. -Cheek hair. 95 00:05:06,066 --> 00:05:07,367 [Kaylen Hoskins] Yeah. 96 00:05:08,266 --> 00:05:10,467 In March of 1994, 97 00:05:10,467 --> 00:05:15,100 two more teenage girls report being stalked by a man in a van. 98 00:05:15,166 --> 00:05:17,767 They've got his license plate number. 99 00:05:17,767 --> 00:05:21,767 And they identified the registered owner as Larry Hall. 100 00:05:23,500 --> 00:05:28,567 Larry never came across that way, as being a predator. 101 00:05:28,567 --> 00:05:30,000 [Ron Woodward] I've known him since he was in junior high school. 102 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:31,600 [Ron Woodward] I've known him since he was in junior high school. 103 00:05:31,667 --> 00:05:34,667 He was kind of a loner, was very quiet. 104 00:05:34,667 --> 00:05:36,700 Stayed to himself. 105 00:05:36,767 --> 00:05:39,467 [Gary Hall] He had a really bad acne problem in school 106 00:05:39,467 --> 00:05:42,467 and he was made fun of a lot in school. 107 00:05:42,467 --> 00:05:45,400 He didn't know how to approach a woman. 108 00:05:45,467 --> 00:05:47,567 He didn't know how to talk to a woman. 109 00:05:49,367 --> 00:05:55,400 One instance that I noticed between Larry and Gary 110 00:05:55,467 --> 00:05:58,100 and women was... 111 00:05:58,166 --> 00:06:00,000 Saturday night, we were walking around the town, 112 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:00,767 Saturday night, we were walking around the town, 113 00:06:00,767 --> 00:06:03,367 Gary had split off from Larry and I 114 00:06:03,367 --> 00:06:05,700 and then, suddenly, 115 00:06:05,767 --> 00:06:09,667 Gary comes back with two women. 116 00:06:09,667 --> 00:06:14,100 Larry and I looked at each other and said "No, oh, no. No." 117 00:06:14,166 --> 00:06:19,967 But that, to me, gave me an impression that Gary was more 118 00:06:19,967 --> 00:06:24,467 apt to approach women than his brother Larry. 119 00:06:25,567 --> 00:06:28,266 [Jordan] In November of 1994, 120 00:06:28,266 --> 00:06:30,000 the lead detective Gary Miller goes to Indiana to interview Larry Hall. 121 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,467 the lead detective Gary Miller goes to Indiana to interview Larry Hall. 122 00:06:33,467 --> 00:06:35,867 Detective Miller is investigating 123 00:06:35,867 --> 00:06:38,000 whether or not Hall was involved 124 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:39,967 in the murder of Jessica Roach. 125 00:06:39,967 --> 00:06:43,300 I had a picture, it was a school picture of Jessica Roach. 126 00:06:43,367 --> 00:06:45,600 [Jordan] And he presents the photo to Larry Hall. 127 00:06:45,667 --> 00:06:48,066 [Miller] And Larry meekly just, uh... 128 00:06:48,066 --> 00:06:50,667 Just flinched to the right and turned his head, 129 00:06:50,667 --> 00:06:54,166 and then he said, "No," but he would not look at the picture. 130 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,000 And ten days later, he sits down with him again. 131 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:00,100 And ten days later, he sits down with him again. 132 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,367 Larry Hall confessed 133 00:07:04,367 --> 00:07:06,567 to the murder of Jessica Roach. 134 00:07:06,567 --> 00:07:07,867 [female reporter] Hall told authorities, 135 00:07:07,867 --> 00:07:10,467 Jessica was crying and asking for her mother, 136 00:07:10,467 --> 00:07:12,100 and that made him angry. 137 00:07:12,100 --> 00:07:14,767 He says he then leaned Jessica up against a tree, 138 00:07:14,767 --> 00:07:16,867 told her he was going to let her go. 139 00:07:16,867 --> 00:07:19,266 Then went behind her and strangled her. 140 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,400 But Larry's confession continued beyond Jessica Roach. 141 00:07:24,467 --> 00:07:26,867 [John Miller] And they're starting to realize, 142 00:07:26,867 --> 00:07:29,367 "This is way bigger than we thought." 143 00:07:29,367 --> 00:07:30,000 He admitted to the Tricia Reitler murder. 144 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,266 He admitted to the Tricia Reitler murder. 145 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:39,100 "In late March of '93, I was over in Marion Indiana. 146 00:07:39,100 --> 00:07:41,567 I needed to be with somebody. 147 00:07:41,567 --> 00:07:44,000 I do remember she tried to run away. 148 00:07:44,867 --> 00:07:47,567 I had a knife to scare her. 149 00:07:47,567 --> 00:07:49,100 I put her in the van. 150 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:55,767 I recall being on a canvas in the woods having sex. 151 00:07:55,767 --> 00:07:58,066 I sat her up against a tree 152 00:07:58,066 --> 00:08:00,000 and put a belt around her neck." 153 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,767 and put a belt around her neck." 154 00:08:01,767 --> 00:08:05,467 And he confesses to killing a couple of other people that he doesn't name. 155 00:08:05,467 --> 00:08:08,166 [Hillel Levin] "I went to Anderson, Indiana, 156 00:08:08,166 --> 00:08:10,767 and exactly the same thing happened. 157 00:08:10,767 --> 00:08:14,667 I picked up this girl, it was in Indianapolis, 158 00:08:14,667 --> 00:08:17,867 I picked up several girls in other areas. 159 00:08:18,700 --> 00:08:21,266 All the girls looked alike. 160 00:08:21,266 --> 00:08:23,467 I cannot remember all of them." 161 00:08:25,367 --> 00:08:28,967 [Belinda Stack] After learning that he had a twin brother, 162 00:08:28,967 --> 00:08:30,000 I've often wondered 163 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:30,667 I've often wondered 164 00:08:30,667 --> 00:08:33,867 if his brother wasn't as crazy as he is. 165 00:08:33,867 --> 00:08:37,767 I've often wondered if he didn't help Larry. 166 00:08:37,767 --> 00:08:41,100 There is a huge question mark in terms of his brother Gary 167 00:08:41,100 --> 00:08:43,467 and whether he was involved or not. 168 00:08:52,667 --> 00:08:53,667 [inaudible] 169 00:08:54,667 --> 00:08:56,867 Two young girls were attacked and murdered 170 00:08:56,867 --> 00:08:59,567 before Larry Hall was ultimately brought in, 171 00:08:59,567 --> 00:09:01,300 questioned and confessed. 172 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,266 I arrested him after the interview. 173 00:09:09,266 --> 00:09:11,000 [Larry Beaumont] He was charged with a federal kidnapping, 174 00:09:11,066 --> 00:09:12,367 and causing a death 175 00:09:12,367 --> 00:09:14,900 in the course of committing that kidnapping. 176 00:09:14,967 --> 00:09:17,700 [John Miller] The FBI searched the house. 177 00:09:17,767 --> 00:09:19,467 What they needed was evidence. 178 00:09:19,467 --> 00:09:20,655 And they went about searching for... 179 00:09:20,655 --> 00:09:21,300 And they went about searching for... 180 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,000 blood evidence, DNA, trace evidence. 181 00:09:25,066 --> 00:09:29,000 Anything that they could use to validate that confession in front of a jury. 182 00:09:29,066 --> 00:09:33,400 There was no forensic evidence against Larry. 183 00:09:33,467 --> 00:09:36,700 Among the things that made Larry so dangerous 184 00:09:36,767 --> 00:09:41,066 is he did have experience as a janitor. 185 00:09:41,066 --> 00:09:43,867 If you look at his notes, he is careful 186 00:09:43,867 --> 00:09:48,867 about making sure he has certain types of chemicals. 187 00:09:48,867 --> 00:09:50,600 [Jackson] There's a search of his van. 188 00:09:50,667 --> 00:09:55,266 Authorities find this journal where Larry Hall kept meticulous notes 189 00:09:55,266 --> 00:09:56,900 with respect to his crimes. 190 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,967 [Levin] "April 5, 1993. 191 00:10:00,967 --> 00:10:03,066 Vacuum van thoroughly, 192 00:10:03,667 --> 00:10:05,600 sprayed down chemicals, 193 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,667 wiped with Armor All. 194 00:10:08,667 --> 00:10:11,967 Clean all tools with denatured alcohol." 195 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,100 [Johnston] Three days go by, 196 00:10:17,100 --> 00:10:20,266 and Agent Randolph is getting several phone calls 197 00:10:20,266 --> 00:10:20,655 from the jail, from Larry Hall, 198 00:10:20,655 --> 00:10:22,567 from the jail, from Larry Hall, 199 00:10:22,567 --> 00:10:23,967 saying, "I want to talk with you," 200 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,400 and so Agent Randolph sits down again with Larry Hall 201 00:10:27,467 --> 00:10:31,367 who says, "These were actually dreams, it's not real." 202 00:10:31,367 --> 00:10:34,400 He recants the things he had said. 203 00:10:37,066 --> 00:10:40,400 [Beaumont] We ultimately did give Larry Hall a polygraph exam. 204 00:10:40,467 --> 00:10:42,767 Later on, after he was charged. 205 00:10:42,767 --> 00:10:44,433 The questions are specifically about 206 00:10:44,433 --> 00:10:48,266 did you kidnap Jessica Roach and did he, you know, cause her death... 207 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,655 which he failed. 208 00:10:50,655 --> 00:10:51,066 which he failed. 209 00:10:51,066 --> 00:10:54,367 [Jackson] There's a reason that Larry took back his confession. 210 00:10:54,367 --> 00:10:59,166 I think his quote was, "My brother told me to shut up 'cause I was in big trouble." 211 00:10:59,166 --> 00:11:04,467 Gary was well aware of his brother Larry's deep personal troubles, 212 00:11:04,467 --> 00:11:06,367 both present and past. 213 00:11:10,300 --> 00:11:13,266 Now the strange story here is, 214 00:11:13,266 --> 00:11:16,266 after about a year and half of age, 215 00:11:16,266 --> 00:11:19,266 Larry started looking different. 216 00:11:19,266 --> 00:11:20,655 His eyes were deeper set and dark, 217 00:11:20,655 --> 00:11:23,467 His eyes were deeper set and dark, 218 00:11:23,467 --> 00:11:26,867 and they call it, like, the thousand-yard stare. 219 00:11:26,867 --> 00:11:30,367 It's like he didn't have any soul. 220 00:11:30,367 --> 00:11:34,300 At age six, my brother Larry, all of a sudden walks up on me 221 00:11:34,367 --> 00:11:36,767 with a full-size cement block, 222 00:11:36,767 --> 00:11:40,266 and tries to crush my skull with it. 223 00:11:40,266 --> 00:11:45,100 At age ten, he pulled a butcher knife in the kitchen for no reason at all. 224 00:11:46,266 --> 00:11:48,600 He was very jealous of me. 225 00:11:48,667 --> 00:11:50,655 Rage would come out of him. 226 00:11:50,655 --> 00:11:50,900 Rage would come out of him. 227 00:11:50,967 --> 00:11:54,600 And it always culminated with him threatening to kill me. 228 00:11:56,867 --> 00:12:01,900 Criminologists studying the childhood behaviors of suspected serial killers, 229 00:12:01,967 --> 00:12:05,066 look at behaviors related to the MacDonald triad. 230 00:12:05,066 --> 00:12:06,900 The MacDonald triad is, you know, 231 00:12:06,967 --> 00:12:09,567 chronic bed-wetting, fire setting, 232 00:12:09,567 --> 00:12:11,200 and animal cruelty. 233 00:12:11,266 --> 00:12:14,100 Interestingly enough, Larry Hall does have all three. 234 00:12:15,066 --> 00:12:16,900 He was a bed-wetter, 235 00:12:16,967 --> 00:12:19,667 and he was very ashamed of that. 236 00:12:19,667 --> 00:12:20,655 He did help set fire 237 00:12:20,655 --> 00:12:22,166 He did help set fire 238 00:12:22,166 --> 00:12:25,367 to several buildings in town. 239 00:12:25,367 --> 00:12:27,367 In fact, he was even arrested. 240 00:12:27,367 --> 00:12:29,367 And there is this story 241 00:12:29,367 --> 00:12:32,767 that at one point, Larry killed, you know, 242 00:12:32,767 --> 00:12:34,900 over 300 rabbits that were in their home. 243 00:12:35,867 --> 00:12:37,867 [Gary Hall] We woke up the next morning, 244 00:12:37,867 --> 00:12:40,000 cages had been ripped open. 245 00:12:40,066 --> 00:12:42,066 It's like somebody took a butcher knife 246 00:12:42,066 --> 00:12:45,600 and slaughtered all 380 of our rabbits. 247 00:12:46,266 --> 00:12:47,800 There is a link 248 00:12:47,867 --> 00:12:50,655 between animal cruelty and cruelty to humans later on. 249 00:12:50,655 --> 00:12:51,166 between animal cruelty and cruelty to humans later on. 250 00:12:51,166 --> 00:12:53,567 Can you harm an animal and not care? 251 00:12:53,567 --> 00:12:56,000 Do you harm a person and not care? 252 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,667 All those kind of things would certainly be red flags for me. 253 00:13:00,467 --> 00:13:03,266 Once Larry Hall was finally charged, 254 00:13:03,266 --> 00:13:06,000 now detectives from all over the country 255 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,066 were connecting him to cold cases in their states 256 00:13:09,066 --> 00:13:10,567 that dated back years. 257 00:13:11,867 --> 00:13:14,100 [John Miller] Michelle Dewey, 1991, 258 00:13:14,100 --> 00:13:15,767 she's with her son in the backyard. 259 00:13:17,967 --> 00:13:20,655 [Jackson] That tranquil setting would soon be shattered. 260 00:13:20,655 --> 00:13:20,800 [Jackson] That tranquil setting would soon be shattered. 261 00:13:22,467 --> 00:13:25,467 The young mom was preyed upon by a killer 262 00:13:25,467 --> 00:13:28,166 who strangled her to death. 263 00:13:28,166 --> 00:13:30,867 Michelle Dewey's murder is discovered by her babysitter 264 00:13:30,867 --> 00:13:33,767 who's coming to the house to take care of her son. 265 00:13:33,767 --> 00:13:36,300 The son is found unharmed hiding in a closet. 266 00:13:36,367 --> 00:13:39,266 The murder seemed to fit the MO of Larry Hall perfectly. 267 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:41,567 Young women in her 20s, 268 00:13:41,567 --> 00:13:43,867 strangled to death in the 1990s, 269 00:13:43,867 --> 00:13:47,100 within striking distance of Larry Hall's hometown. 270 00:13:48,166 --> 00:13:50,467 [Levin] When a cold case detective 271 00:13:50,467 --> 00:13:50,655 questioned him about that murder, 272 00:13:50,655 --> 00:13:52,767 questioned him about that murder, 273 00:13:52,767 --> 00:13:54,967 he mentioned 274 00:13:54,967 --> 00:13:57,467 a souvenir he took from her home. 275 00:13:57,467 --> 00:13:59,567 A record album was taken 276 00:14:00,700 --> 00:14:02,867 only the killer would've known about, 277 00:14:02,867 --> 00:14:06,600 but otherwise there hasn't been any other evidence 278 00:14:06,667 --> 00:14:10,000 that would tie him to that crime. 279 00:14:10,066 --> 00:14:13,000 [Jackson] Laurie Depies was yet another unsolved case 280 00:14:13,066 --> 00:14:16,100 connected to Larry Hall's admitted past. 281 00:14:18,500 --> 00:14:19,867 [female reporter] The last night she was seen, 282 00:14:19,867 --> 00:14:20,655 Laurie Depies had left her job at the Fox River Mall 283 00:14:20,655 --> 00:14:22,367 Laurie Depies had left her job at the Fox River Mall 284 00:14:22,367 --> 00:14:24,467 and headed to her boyfriend's apartment. 285 00:14:24,467 --> 00:14:26,367 The three people inside waiting for Laurie 286 00:14:26,367 --> 00:14:28,266 knew she had pulled into the parking lot 287 00:14:28,266 --> 00:14:30,800 because of her car's notoriously loud exhaust. 288 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:33,800 [Jackson] Years later, 289 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,567 Larry Hall admitted to the abduction and murder of Laurie Depies. 290 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:45,600 And he also said that she placed a soda cup on top of her car. 291 00:14:45,667 --> 00:14:50,655 A detail like that is what Larry gave Wisconsin State Police, 292 00:14:50,655 --> 00:14:52,166 A detail like that is what Larry gave Wisconsin State Police, 293 00:14:52,166 --> 00:14:57,367 who sounded like they were as close to indicting him 294 00:14:57,367 --> 00:14:59,200 on that case as any case. 295 00:15:05,567 --> 00:15:09,567 Larry's trial began on May 23rd of 1995. 296 00:15:09,567 --> 00:15:13,400 [female reporter] The Wabash, Indiana man put up to life in prison. 297 00:15:13,467 --> 00:15:16,567 Hall signed a statement in which he confessed to the killing, 298 00:15:16,567 --> 00:15:20,266 along with the murders of an Indiana Wesleyan student, Tricia Reitler, 299 00:15:20,266 --> 00:15:20,655 and two other unnamed females. 300 00:15:20,655 --> 00:15:22,767 and two other unnamed females. 301 00:15:24,900 --> 00:15:28,567 But police in Marion, Indiana still had doubts 302 00:15:28,567 --> 00:15:30,567 about Larry Hall's involvement 303 00:15:30,567 --> 00:15:32,567 in the murder of Tricia Reitler. 304 00:15:32,567 --> 00:15:34,967 Information provided will be followed up, 305 00:15:34,967 --> 00:15:37,500 but at this time, it has not resulted in any conclusion 306 00:15:37,567 --> 00:15:39,200 in the disappearance of Tricia Reitler. 307 00:15:39,266 --> 00:15:43,166 Marion police didn't believe he's involved in the Tricia Reitler kidnapping. 308 00:15:43,166 --> 00:15:45,767 From the outset of Tricia Reitler's disappearance, 309 00:15:45,767 --> 00:15:48,266 the police focused almost exclusively 310 00:15:48,266 --> 00:15:49,867 on one suspect. 311 00:15:49,867 --> 00:15:50,655 A 28-year-old man named Tony Searcy. 312 00:15:50,655 --> 00:15:52,867 A 28-year-old man named Tony Searcy. 313 00:15:52,867 --> 00:15:54,867 [Michael Sangiacomo] But he was only charged with theft. 314 00:15:54,867 --> 00:15:57,066 Sometimes police do get tunnel vision 315 00:15:57,066 --> 00:15:58,567 and they don't want to hear anything else. 316 00:16:03,166 --> 00:16:05,400 [Loren Roach] The defense wanted everybody to think 317 00:16:05,467 --> 00:16:07,767 that Larry Hall was this merely 318 00:16:07,767 --> 00:16:09,667 mild-mannered little guy, 319 00:16:09,667 --> 00:16:11,567 that he would not hurt anybody 320 00:16:11,567 --> 00:16:14,100 and that he had this low IQ. 321 00:16:14,100 --> 00:16:17,400 He was talking about dreams that he had. 322 00:16:17,467 --> 00:16:20,655 [Levin] Assistant U.S. Attorney Larry Beaumont 323 00:16:20,655 --> 00:16:21,166 [Levin] Assistant U.S. Attorney Larry Beaumont 324 00:16:21,166 --> 00:16:23,800 very methodically laid out 325 00:16:23,867 --> 00:16:25,667 the women he stalked, 326 00:16:25,667 --> 00:16:29,867 which is why he brought in the Tricia Reitler case, 327 00:16:29,867 --> 00:16:32,967 shows a whole pattern of behaviors. 328 00:16:32,967 --> 00:16:34,800 [John Miller] The picture they're painting of Larry Hall 329 00:16:34,867 --> 00:16:38,166 is that of a stalker, a predator. 330 00:16:38,166 --> 00:16:41,066 Somebody who was hunting all the time. 331 00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:46,266 The first trial in federal court is eight days, 332 00:16:46,266 --> 00:16:48,100 and it goes to the jury. 333 00:16:48,166 --> 00:16:49,467 The verdict was guilty. 334 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,000 And... I just cried. 335 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,800 [John Miller] Larry Hall goes to jail, 336 00:16:55,867 --> 00:16:59,166 and his lawyers appealed the conviction. 337 00:16:59,166 --> 00:17:01,367 And an appeals court agrees, 338 00:17:01,367 --> 00:17:03,700 and they set aside his conviction 339 00:17:03,767 --> 00:17:05,667 and give him a new trial. 340 00:17:05,667 --> 00:17:08,000 I was shocked when it came back that way. 341 00:17:08,066 --> 00:17:09,600 The problem was 342 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:14,200 that the judge believed Larry was coerced into a confession. 343 00:17:14,266 --> 00:17:16,066 [Jordan] There being no physical evidence, 344 00:17:16,066 --> 00:17:17,567 this raises the question, 345 00:17:17,567 --> 00:17:19,367 was it a false confession? 346 00:17:19,367 --> 00:17:20,655 [Levin] The judge felt that given his shy nature, 347 00:17:20,655 --> 00:17:22,700 [Levin] The judge felt that given his shy nature, 348 00:17:22,767 --> 00:17:25,467 it was, in fact, very important that they have that 349 00:17:26,266 --> 00:17:28,500 third-party expert. 350 00:17:28,567 --> 00:17:31,367 That false confession expert would focus on 351 00:17:31,367 --> 00:17:34,567 analyzing the summary of his sworn statement 352 00:17:34,567 --> 00:17:38,367 to determine whether or not it actually is a confession, 353 00:17:38,367 --> 00:17:39,767 or whether it's a false confession. 354 00:17:41,567 --> 00:17:44,667 We tried the case in August of 1997. 355 00:17:44,667 --> 00:17:46,367 [Richard Ofshe] I would get to explain 356 00:17:46,367 --> 00:17:50,000 innocent people did sometimes give confessions 357 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:50,655 to crimes they didn't commit, 358 00:17:50,655 --> 00:17:52,166 to crimes they didn't commit, 359 00:17:52,166 --> 00:17:55,867 that this was not some bizarre hoax. 360 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,867 [John Miller] Larry Hall, after being convicted of the murder of Jessica Roach, 361 00:18:09,867 --> 00:18:12,867 appeals and he wins a new trial. 362 00:18:12,867 --> 00:18:15,000 He's still being held in prison, 363 00:18:15,066 --> 00:18:18,367 but this entire case is about to be relitigated. 364 00:18:18,367 --> 00:18:22,700 [Levin] So the second trial, they have that third-party expert 365 00:18:22,767 --> 00:18:25,500 talking about how people can be coerced 366 00:18:25,567 --> 00:18:26,767 into false confessions. 367 00:18:27,867 --> 00:18:29,867 [Richard Ofshe] Why would anyone 368 00:18:29,867 --> 00:18:31,867 give a false confession? 369 00:18:31,867 --> 00:18:33,415 The first major step 370 00:18:33,415 --> 00:18:33,500 The first major step 371 00:18:33,567 --> 00:18:36,266 is to try to make the person believe 372 00:18:36,266 --> 00:18:38,867 that their situation is hopeless. 373 00:18:38,867 --> 00:18:41,700 And if you can also lie to them about the evidence, 374 00:18:41,767 --> 00:18:43,300 it becomes child's play 375 00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:46,867 to get somebody to think, "I may have committed the crime." 376 00:18:50,467 --> 00:18:52,066 [Roach] You're always nervous. 377 00:18:53,567 --> 00:18:55,567 The jury is a different jury. 378 00:18:57,100 --> 00:18:59,266 [John Miller] But the jury's conclusion was the same. 379 00:18:59,266 --> 00:19:01,000 They agreed with the first jury. 380 00:19:01,066 --> 00:19:03,367 He was convicted and sentenced to life 381 00:19:03,367 --> 00:19:03,415 without the possibility of parole. 382 00:19:03,415 --> 00:19:05,166 without the possibility of parole. 383 00:19:06,166 --> 00:19:09,467 The problem was, then the case was appealed. 384 00:19:09,467 --> 00:19:13,667 He had every reason to believe he would win another appeal. 385 00:19:13,667 --> 00:19:16,166 Typically, it could take as much as a year or two 386 00:19:16,166 --> 00:19:19,767 for the appeals court to rule. 387 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,166 [Jackson] While they're waiting for their second appeal, 388 00:19:25,166 --> 00:19:27,467 the prosecutor refuses to sit still. 389 00:19:27,467 --> 00:19:31,166 He wants to do something for Tricia Reitler's family. 390 00:19:31,166 --> 00:19:33,415 [Beaumont] I ended up seeing Tricia Reitler's family 391 00:19:33,415 --> 00:19:33,600 [Beaumont] I ended up seeing Tricia Reitler's family 392 00:19:33,667 --> 00:19:37,800 suffering deeply because they never found her body. 393 00:19:37,867 --> 00:19:39,100 So there was no closure. 394 00:19:39,166 --> 00:19:41,100 The only person that would actually know 395 00:19:41,166 --> 00:19:43,667 where that body was, was Larry Hall. 396 00:19:43,667 --> 00:19:47,000 The question was getting Larry Hall to tell us. 397 00:19:47,066 --> 00:19:49,867 [Jordan] Prosecutor Beaumont comes up with a scheme 398 00:19:49,867 --> 00:19:53,800 to take an undercover operative to gain the trust of Larry Hall, 399 00:19:53,867 --> 00:19:56,000 so that they can get the information 400 00:19:56,066 --> 00:19:58,967 about where the bodies could be buried. 401 00:19:58,967 --> 00:20:02,400 [Beaumont] The easiest way was to get somebody that's already in prison. 402 00:20:02,467 --> 00:20:03,415 And I love the idea of using a criminal to catch a criminal. 403 00:20:03,415 --> 00:20:06,000 And I love the idea of using a criminal to catch a criminal. 404 00:20:06,066 --> 00:20:10,166 [Jackson] First, Beaumont had to find the right convict for the job. 405 00:20:10,166 --> 00:20:12,000 Someone who's got the gift of gab, 406 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,266 who can gain someone's confidence, 407 00:20:14,266 --> 00:20:17,767 and create a relationship with Larry Hall. 408 00:20:17,767 --> 00:20:19,166 James Keene. 409 00:20:19,166 --> 00:20:20,667 [interviewer] Do you prefer James? 410 00:20:20,667 --> 00:20:22,467 I go by Jimmy, actually. 411 00:20:22,467 --> 00:20:25,467 [John Miller] Jimmy Keene, he's a criminal. 412 00:20:25,467 --> 00:20:28,467 But almost everybody who dealt with Jimmy Keene, 413 00:20:28,467 --> 00:20:31,300 even in his life of crime, liked him. 414 00:20:31,367 --> 00:20:33,415 He was a likeable guy. 415 00:20:33,415 --> 00:20:33,500 He was a likeable guy. 416 00:20:33,567 --> 00:20:36,000 He was also in serious trouble. 417 00:20:36,066 --> 00:20:39,266 He's doing a ten-year bit in federal prison. 418 00:20:40,266 --> 00:20:44,000 [Levin] Larry Beaumont met with Jimmy. 419 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,567 He slid the manila folder over to me. 420 00:20:46,567 --> 00:20:50,367 Then when I opened it up, there was a picture of a young, dead girl. 421 00:20:52,300 --> 00:20:55,000 We know that Larry had a type. 422 00:20:55,000 --> 00:21:01,166 The typical target was someone with darker brown, long, curly hair. 423 00:21:01,166 --> 00:21:03,415 Fairly dark eyes, and they were smaller in stature. 424 00:21:03,415 --> 00:21:04,500 Fairly dark eyes, and they were smaller in stature. 425 00:21:04,567 --> 00:21:07,800 [Levin] And who did those women look like? 426 00:21:07,867 --> 00:21:11,567 They looked like Gary's first wife. 427 00:21:11,567 --> 00:21:15,166 I think that Gary's marriage 428 00:21:15,166 --> 00:21:18,300 and subsequent moving out of the house had an effect. 429 00:21:18,367 --> 00:21:21,000 [D'Ambrosia] This was a trauma for him. 430 00:21:21,066 --> 00:21:25,266 Larry felt completely abandoned, out of his depth 431 00:21:25,266 --> 00:21:28,800 and unsure of how to get through life without his twin brother. 432 00:21:28,867 --> 00:21:32,100 About that time of the marriage 433 00:21:32,100 --> 00:21:33,415 is when Larry begins to become more aggressive. 434 00:21:33,415 --> 00:21:37,867 is when Larry begins to become more aggressive. 435 00:21:37,867 --> 00:21:41,700 I think that the separation from Gary was huge 436 00:21:41,767 --> 00:21:43,900 precipitating stressor for Larry. 437 00:21:43,967 --> 00:21:47,667 [Levin] So it could point to why Larry 438 00:21:47,667 --> 00:21:51,200 targeted women with that hairstyle, 439 00:21:51,266 --> 00:21:54,100 and that size, and that physique. 440 00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:58,767 I was looking for Tricia Reitler's body, 441 00:21:58,767 --> 00:22:03,415 befriend Larry Hall, and get Larry Hall to tell him where that body was. 442 00:22:03,415 --> 00:22:03,900 befriend Larry Hall, and get Larry Hall to tell him where that body was. 443 00:22:03,967 --> 00:22:07,767 So that's your mission. Find the body. 444 00:22:07,767 --> 00:22:12,800 I said, "So, what can I do?" He says, "We're wanting to send you into 445 00:22:12,867 --> 00:22:18,100 a maximum-security penitentiary that has a psych wing." 446 00:22:18,100 --> 00:22:20,967 [Beaumont] The Medical Center at the Federal Bureau of Prisons 447 00:22:20,967 --> 00:22:22,567 in Springfield, Missouri. 448 00:22:22,567 --> 00:22:27,000 He's going in with a bunch of people who are convicted of terrible murders. 449 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,767 Obviously, it's dangerous. 450 00:22:28,767 --> 00:22:30,166 And he says, "Jimmy." He says, "Listen. 451 00:22:30,166 --> 00:22:32,467 We're willing to make this worth your while. 452 00:22:32,467 --> 00:22:33,415 We're willing to completely wash your record." 453 00:22:33,415 --> 00:22:35,567 We're willing to completely wash your record." 454 00:22:35,567 --> 00:22:37,500 He's being offered his release from prison. 455 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,467 I decide that I'm going to do it. 456 00:22:42,567 --> 00:22:45,467 I had pictures, I had detailed notes of everything. 457 00:22:45,467 --> 00:22:47,700 So at night, when everybody would go to sleep, 458 00:22:47,767 --> 00:22:52,000 I would read up on him to get a feeling of his personality, 459 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,166 all the insights I could find about him. 460 00:23:01,367 --> 00:23:03,415 Until we started taking the drive to Springfield, 461 00:23:03,415 --> 00:23:03,867 Until we started taking the drive to Springfield, 462 00:23:03,867 --> 00:23:07,667 and this is just as the light's starting to come up on the horizon. 463 00:23:07,667 --> 00:23:09,867 So you can see the prison glistening. 464 00:23:09,867 --> 00:23:12,600 I looked at it and I thought, oh, my gosh. You know, I mean... 465 00:23:12,667 --> 00:23:14,700 And I did. I started to get cold feet. 466 00:23:14,767 --> 00:23:17,867 I'm classified as a low-level, nonviolent offender. 467 00:23:17,867 --> 00:23:23,200 But I'm going to go into a maximum-security prison with a violent offender. 468 00:23:23,266 --> 00:23:26,867 In a whole world of violent offenders, could I do this? 469 00:23:26,867 --> 00:23:29,867 There's a term in prison. "Snitches get stitches." 470 00:23:29,867 --> 00:23:33,415 So they don't look kindly upon people who rat out other prisoners. 471 00:23:33,415 --> 00:23:33,800 So they don't look kindly upon people who rat out other prisoners. 472 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,367 Welcome back to Very Scary People. 473 00:23:49,367 --> 00:23:52,500 Larry Dwayne Hall knew he was locked up for life, 474 00:23:52,567 --> 00:23:54,900 with no possibility of parole. 475 00:23:54,967 --> 00:23:59,200 But what Hall did not know was that his trusted new friend on the cell block 476 00:23:59,266 --> 00:24:01,700 was actually a government operative. 477 00:24:01,767 --> 00:24:04,200 A plant sent in by the prosecutor 478 00:24:04,266 --> 00:24:06,667 to get him to reveal the precise location 479 00:24:06,667 --> 00:24:09,867 of missing murder victim, Tricia Reitler. 480 00:24:09,867 --> 00:24:10,001 [prisoners shouting indistinctly] 481 00:24:10,001 --> 00:24:11,367 [prisoners shouting indistinctly] 482 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,667 I was sitting around in the cell for maybe five minutes 483 00:24:17,667 --> 00:24:19,033 and the morning bell rang. 484 00:24:19,066 --> 00:24:21,100 -[bell ringing] -And I had no idea where I was going. 485 00:24:21,100 --> 00:24:22,900 And so I just kind of followed the crowd. 486 00:24:22,967 --> 00:24:26,166 Keene gets into that federal prison, the first thing he does 487 00:24:26,166 --> 00:24:29,266 is he bumps into Larry Hall. And when I say bumps into him, 488 00:24:29,266 --> 00:24:32,500 he actually bumps into him on purpose. 489 00:24:32,567 --> 00:24:35,000 [Keene] When I seen him, I said, "Oh, excuse me. I'm new here." 490 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,667 I said, "You wouldn't happen to know where the library is, would you? 491 00:24:37,667 --> 00:24:40,001 He says, "The library is down the hallway." 492 00:24:40,001 --> 00:24:40,667 He says, "The library is down the hallway." 493 00:24:40,667 --> 00:24:42,166 I kind of slapped him on the shoulder and I said, 494 00:24:42,166 --> 00:24:45,500 "Thanks a lot. I appreciate that from a cool guy like you." 495 00:24:45,567 --> 00:24:48,000 And he says, "You think I'm cool?" 496 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,667 He looks at me in this bizarre, spaced-out fashion. He says, 497 00:24:51,667 --> 00:24:54,166 "Do you want me to show you where the library's at?" 498 00:24:54,166 --> 00:24:55,634 I was like, "Yeah." 499 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,600 [Levin] Jimmy approached Larry eventually in the library, 500 00:25:02,667 --> 00:25:06,600 where he knew Larry would look at the Wabash hometown papers. 501 00:25:06,667 --> 00:25:10,001 I had slowly built up a friendship in that way. 502 00:25:10,001 --> 00:25:10,066 I had slowly built up a friendship in that way. 503 00:25:10,066 --> 00:25:15,000 Since they were both from the same region, Larry was guarded. 504 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,367 But he truly did want Jimmy's friendship. 505 00:25:19,367 --> 00:25:21,266 I think he did look at me as an older brother. 506 00:25:21,266 --> 00:25:24,667 A much cooler version of his brother. 507 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:32,900 Jimmy Keene is playing a psychological strategy game 508 00:25:32,967 --> 00:25:36,667 to get into Larry Hall's field of trust. 509 00:25:36,667 --> 00:25:40,001 You're not going to tell people who you killed 510 00:25:40,001 --> 00:25:40,166 You're not going to tell people who you killed 511 00:25:40,166 --> 00:25:43,567 or literally where the bodies are buried unless you trust them. 512 00:25:43,567 --> 00:25:46,100 And he's trying to accelerate this process. 513 00:25:46,166 --> 00:25:50,166 [John Miller] Jimmy realized that a few things were real important 514 00:25:50,166 --> 00:25:53,600 in Larry's life at the point. 515 00:25:53,667 --> 00:25:58,667 One of them was watching TV and America's Most Wanted. 516 00:25:58,667 --> 00:26:02,567 [narrator] Now from our Washington crime center, John Walsh. 517 00:26:02,567 --> 00:26:04,867 [John Miller] Larry and his friends really loved seeing 518 00:26:04,867 --> 00:26:09,066 anything about serial killers on television. 519 00:26:09,066 --> 00:26:10,001 [Keene] This big guy decided he was going to turn the TV channel. 520 00:26:10,001 --> 00:26:12,000 [Keene] This big guy decided he was going to turn the TV channel. 521 00:26:13,066 --> 00:26:15,600 Larry was terrified of the guy. 522 00:26:15,667 --> 00:26:18,300 I walked up to the TV and I turned the channel back. 523 00:26:18,367 --> 00:26:19,667 He jumped up. 524 00:26:19,700 --> 00:26:22,066 "You touch that TV again, I'm going to rip your head off." 525 00:26:22,066 --> 00:26:23,667 He turns the channel back. 526 00:26:23,667 --> 00:26:27,300 When he sat back down, I pushed the button and turned it again. 527 00:26:27,367 --> 00:26:30,166 Now I know it's pretty much on at that point. 528 00:26:30,166 --> 00:26:33,066 He takes a wild haymaker swing at me. 529 00:26:33,066 --> 00:26:35,700 And then I kicked him through three rows of chairs. 530 00:26:39,467 --> 00:26:40,001 He was beat up real bad and had to go to the hospital. 531 00:26:40,001 --> 00:26:41,967 He was beat up real bad and had to go to the hospital. 532 00:26:41,967 --> 00:26:45,567 [John Miller] Jimmy showed his loyalty to Larry that way. 533 00:26:45,567 --> 00:26:49,867 And that really was, I think, the key in developing that friendship. 534 00:26:49,867 --> 00:26:54,600 [John Miller] At this point, Jimmy felt he could accelerate the relationship. 535 00:26:54,667 --> 00:26:56,800 But now, he has to get Larry Hall to open up. 536 00:26:56,867 --> 00:26:58,600 And it dawned on me. 537 00:26:58,667 --> 00:27:00,467 The Wabash Plain Dealer. 538 00:27:00,467 --> 00:27:03,367 I said, "You know, my mom was real close to the Indiana border. 539 00:27:03,367 --> 00:27:05,567 And she gets the Wabash Plain Dealer." 540 00:27:05,567 --> 00:27:09,767 And I said, "That Wabash Plain Dealer has several stories about you 541 00:27:09,767 --> 00:27:10,001 killing lots of different girls." And he looked at me. 542 00:27:10,001 --> 00:27:13,266 killing lots of different girls." And he looked at me. 543 00:27:13,266 --> 00:27:14,867 And his eyes bugged out of his head, 544 00:27:14,867 --> 00:27:16,767 and he starts, in a pleading way, 545 00:27:16,767 --> 00:27:20,100 he says, "You know, James, it's not like they say. 546 00:27:20,100 --> 00:27:23,400 It's not... It didn't happen that way. It didn't happen that way." 547 00:27:23,467 --> 00:27:26,700 And he starts to give incriminating details. 548 00:27:26,767 --> 00:27:30,367 I had to sit there and let this piece of human garbage say whatever 549 00:27:30,367 --> 00:27:33,200 he's going to say, but at least he's talking. 550 00:27:47,266 --> 00:27:52,300 And it took Jimmy Keene months to get Larry to open up. 551 00:27:52,367 --> 00:27:57,567 Larry starts, in a pleading way, "No, James, it's not like they say. 552 00:27:57,567 --> 00:28:00,100 It didn't happen that way. It didn't happen that way. 553 00:28:00,100 --> 00:28:02,567 Those girls all liked me. They all liked me." 554 00:28:02,567 --> 00:28:07,767 He would talk about the victims as though they were his girlfriends. 555 00:28:08,767 --> 00:28:11,493 He describes those things almost like a, 556 00:28:11,493 --> 00:28:11,600 He describes those things almost like a, 557 00:28:11,667 --> 00:28:13,767 you know, relationship kind of way. 558 00:28:13,767 --> 00:28:15,467 "I just wanted to be with the girl." 559 00:28:15,467 --> 00:28:17,300 Those are not things that were alarming 560 00:28:17,367 --> 00:28:20,000 until you realize this is what this means. 561 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,367 "Be with somebody" means raping and killing them. 562 00:28:25,567 --> 00:28:28,367 [Keene] Once I got him to feel comfortable, 563 00:28:28,367 --> 00:28:32,100 I said, "Well, what really happened, you know, with Tricia Reitler? 564 00:28:32,100 --> 00:28:33,800 What happened with her?" 565 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:39,100 [Levin] Then Larry started giving up more and more about what her knew. 566 00:28:39,166 --> 00:28:41,493 Some details that had not previously come out. 567 00:28:41,493 --> 00:28:42,900 Some details that had not previously come out. 568 00:28:42,967 --> 00:28:46,166 [Keene] He said that he had seen her walking down the street, 569 00:28:46,166 --> 00:28:48,900 and he had pulled up to her and he started talking to her. 570 00:28:48,967 --> 00:28:50,900 Said that she was very nice. 571 00:28:50,967 --> 00:28:55,400 And when he went to make an aggressive, forward move towards her to kiss her, 572 00:28:55,467 --> 00:28:59,100 she stopped him. And he went to grab for her again. 573 00:28:59,166 --> 00:29:01,467 And she put up a really big fight with him. 574 00:29:01,467 --> 00:29:05,066 I could see her fighting and doing all the things 575 00:29:05,066 --> 00:29:09,166 that Larry described that she did to him. 576 00:29:09,166 --> 00:29:11,493 It certainly fit her personality. 577 00:29:11,493 --> 00:29:12,100 It certainly fit her personality. 578 00:29:12,166 --> 00:29:14,367 They were in for one heck of a fight. 579 00:29:14,367 --> 00:29:15,900 She wasn't going to go easy. 580 00:29:19,300 --> 00:29:22,500 [Jackson] The attack on Tricia Reitler was not only terrifying 581 00:29:22,567 --> 00:29:25,000 because of how brutally violent it was, 582 00:29:25,066 --> 00:29:28,300 but because of how prepared Larry Hall seemed to be, 583 00:29:28,367 --> 00:29:30,867 because of the murder kit in his van. 584 00:29:30,867 --> 00:29:33,200 [Keene] His van was a little house of horror. 585 00:29:33,266 --> 00:29:35,166 I mean, he had that thing set up 586 00:29:35,166 --> 00:29:37,600 that once he's got you in there, you're not getting out of there. 587 00:29:37,667 --> 00:29:39,667 He would shackle you down. 588 00:29:39,667 --> 00:29:41,493 He had tarps down all over the main floors, 589 00:29:41,493 --> 00:29:41,800 He had tarps down all over the main floors, 590 00:29:41,867 --> 00:29:45,600 so no DNA could ever get put down to the main floor. 591 00:29:45,667 --> 00:29:47,200 And he has an out-of-body experience. 592 00:29:47,266 --> 00:29:50,200 And he says he sees him choking her. 593 00:29:50,266 --> 00:29:52,867 When he wakes up, both their clothes are off. 594 00:29:52,867 --> 00:29:57,166 And he's laying next to her. And he says, "I did it again." 595 00:29:57,166 --> 00:29:59,667 The evil side of him killed the girl. 596 00:30:03,367 --> 00:30:07,000 Now he panicked. And he didn't know what to do with this one here. 597 00:30:07,066 --> 00:30:10,467 So he drove to his home, which was about 20 minutes away. 598 00:30:10,467 --> 00:30:11,493 He got some lime together, he got a shovel and he got a lantern, 599 00:30:11,493 --> 00:30:13,467 He got some lime together, he got a shovel and he got a lantern, 600 00:30:13,467 --> 00:30:15,166 and he drove her way out into the woods 601 00:30:15,166 --> 00:30:17,800 and he buried her out in the woods. 602 00:30:17,867 --> 00:30:22,166 That was another element of the crime that he hadn't talked about previously. 603 00:30:25,367 --> 00:30:28,367 What Jimmy Keene needs from Larry is, he needs more. 604 00:30:28,367 --> 00:30:31,700 He needs Larry to tell him about the murder of Tricia Reitler 605 00:30:31,767 --> 00:30:34,066 and where that body is. 606 00:30:34,066 --> 00:30:36,800 [Jordan] Jimmy Keene stepped into the prison workshop. 607 00:30:36,867 --> 00:30:39,867 And he saw Larry Hall. He had a map. 608 00:30:39,867 --> 00:30:41,493 He immediately dove on that map and covered the map up. 609 00:30:41,493 --> 00:30:43,066 He immediately dove on that map and covered the map up. 610 00:30:43,066 --> 00:30:46,700 [Jordan] But not before Jimmy Keene sees that there's this 611 00:30:46,767 --> 00:30:52,300 map of Illinois and Indiana with red dots distributed around that map 612 00:30:52,367 --> 00:30:56,967 that would indicate, perhaps, the location of the burial sites. 613 00:30:56,967 --> 00:31:00,367 [Keene] And I come up over his shoulder, and I grab one of the falcons. 614 00:31:00,367 --> 00:31:03,100 And I said," Wow, this is pretty cool, Larry." I said, "What is this?" 615 00:31:03,100 --> 00:31:06,367 He says, "They watch over the dead." 616 00:31:06,367 --> 00:31:11,493 Larry Hall had carved falcons to symbolically fly over the crime scenes. 617 00:31:11,493 --> 00:31:12,667 Larry Hall had carved falcons to symbolically fly over the crime scenes. 618 00:31:12,667 --> 00:31:17,667 [Johnston] And to Jimmy Keene, he immediately feels like he has basically won the lottery 619 00:31:17,667 --> 00:31:20,767 in terms of figuring out where all these bodies are. 620 00:31:20,767 --> 00:31:23,867 Jimmy Keene calls his handler on the outside. 621 00:31:23,867 --> 00:31:27,367 [Keene] I did try to make a call to the FBI when I left the woodshop. 622 00:31:27,367 --> 00:31:30,166 I left a message that I thought I had this whole thing solved 623 00:31:30,166 --> 00:31:32,100 and we needed to talk. 624 00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:35,767 I went back to my cell and I felt that I had 625 00:31:35,767 --> 00:31:39,100 pretty much tied this up in a nice little bow. 626 00:31:39,166 --> 00:31:41,493 [Levin] He felt the authorities were ready 627 00:31:41,493 --> 00:31:41,667 [Levin] He felt the authorities were ready 628 00:31:41,667 --> 00:31:45,266 to rush into Springfield, get him out. 629 00:31:45,266 --> 00:31:49,600 The FBI has told me they'll have me out of here on a 24-hour notice. 630 00:31:49,667 --> 00:31:52,767 [Jordan] Just when he's on the edge of really 631 00:31:52,767 --> 00:31:55,867 breaking Larry Hall and getting that information the police need, 632 00:31:55,867 --> 00:32:00,367 he makes the really tragic error of blowing up on Larry Hall. 633 00:32:00,367 --> 00:32:04,000 [John Miller] Of course, none of this, because they were in prison, was on tape. 634 00:32:04,066 --> 00:32:06,467 But it has been pretty well dramatized 635 00:32:06,467 --> 00:32:09,500 on the Apple TV original series Black Bird. 636 00:32:10,667 --> 00:32:11,493 You demented [bleep] monster! 637 00:32:11,493 --> 00:32:14,166 You demented [bleep] monster! 638 00:32:18,467 --> 00:32:20,467 Beaumont sent you, didn't he? 639 00:32:24,166 --> 00:32:26,166 He did, didn't he? 640 00:32:26,166 --> 00:32:27,567 [Keene] I said, "You're going to sit here and rot 641 00:32:27,567 --> 00:32:29,467 the rest of your life." 642 00:32:29,467 --> 00:32:31,467 And I went back across to my cell. 643 00:32:31,467 --> 00:32:34,767 And I thought, you know, good. 644 00:32:34,767 --> 00:32:39,567 [Jackson] But the problem is the FBI handler didn't get the message right away. 645 00:32:39,567 --> 00:32:41,493 Hall now had the time to dispose of the map and the falcons. 646 00:32:41,493 --> 00:32:44,300 Hall now had the time to dispose of the map and the falcons. 647 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:48,867 [Johnston] I think his survival mode kicks in. 648 00:32:48,867 --> 00:32:54,567 If the find this map and these falcons, but in particularly the map, 649 00:32:54,567 --> 00:32:55,900 the gig could be up. 650 00:32:55,967 --> 00:33:02,000 And the map and the falcons were probably destroyed. 651 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,300 We needed a specific location. That, we didn't get. 652 00:33:05,367 --> 00:33:08,867 [Beaumont] And they brought Jimmy straight back to my office in Central Illinois. 653 00:33:08,867 --> 00:33:11,300 And he was interviewed, debriefed. 654 00:33:11,367 --> 00:33:11,493 I made arrangements for Jimmy to take a polygraph test 655 00:33:11,493 --> 00:33:14,000 I made arrangements for Jimmy to take a polygraph test 656 00:33:14,066 --> 00:33:17,700 to verify what he told us during the debriefing. 657 00:33:17,767 --> 00:33:20,767 I was comfortable that what he was telling us was true. 658 00:33:20,767 --> 00:33:23,000 [Jackson] The prosecutor felt that Jimmy Keene 659 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,500 had gotten enough information and confession 660 00:33:25,567 --> 00:33:30,266 from Larry to really call the operation an overall success. 661 00:33:30,266 --> 00:33:33,000 He releases Jimmy Keene from prison. 662 00:33:33,066 --> 00:33:36,800 I filed a motion to give Jimmy Keene credit for time served. 663 00:33:36,867 --> 00:33:39,100 And the judge agreed to do that. 664 00:33:39,100 --> 00:33:41,493 [Levin] Coincidentally, the appeals court did rule on the second trial. 665 00:33:41,493 --> 00:33:44,000 [Levin] Coincidentally, the appeals court did rule on the second trial. 666 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,300 And Larry's appeal was denied. 667 00:33:47,367 --> 00:33:50,367 The Larry Hall horror show did not end with Jimmy Keene. 668 00:34:00,066 --> 00:34:01,767 [Jackson] The fierce interest in Larry Hall has never stopped. 669 00:34:01,767 --> 00:34:06,166 Investigators are still probing into his background and past history 670 00:34:06,166 --> 00:34:08,100 to determine what he's been involved with. 671 00:34:08,100 --> 00:34:11,400 I did not want to pretend I thought he was innocent. 672 00:34:11,467 --> 00:34:13,600 [Jackson] Author Hillel Levin actually got permission 673 00:34:13,667 --> 00:34:16,266 to speak with and record a prison call 674 00:34:16,266 --> 00:34:18,967 that he did with Larry Hall for his book. 675 00:34:21,700 --> 00:34:26,166 The writer asks Larry about his pattern of recanting confessions, 676 00:34:26,166 --> 00:34:27,767 saying they're all dreams. 677 00:34:27,767 --> 00:34:28,119 I said to him, "Do you think the dreams are really the window 678 00:34:28,119 --> 00:34:31,767 I said to him, "Do you think the dreams are really the window 679 00:34:31,767 --> 00:34:37,100 through which the good Larry is looking at what the bad Larry is doing?" 680 00:34:37,100 --> 00:34:38,700 And his response was... 681 00:35:02,467 --> 00:35:06,500 Larry Hall went on to admit that he would habitually show up at crime scenes 682 00:35:06,567 --> 00:35:08,467 in the aftermath of his attack. 683 00:35:15,867 --> 00:35:22,266 It is certainly not uncommon for serial killers, sexually motivated offenders 684 00:35:22,266 --> 00:35:25,567 to insert themselves into a search. 685 00:35:25,567 --> 00:35:28,119 He was actually around when they were looking for Tricia Reitler. 686 00:35:28,119 --> 00:35:29,300 He was actually around when they were looking for Tricia Reitler. 687 00:35:29,367 --> 00:35:32,767 When she was first kidnapped, he was, like, trying to help the police. 688 00:35:32,767 --> 00:35:34,166 So he was at the scene. 689 00:35:45,100 --> 00:35:48,166 [Howard] We know that Grace was sexually assaulted. 690 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,367 We know that she was probably strangled. 691 00:35:51,367 --> 00:35:55,000 And that led me to Larry Hall. 692 00:35:56,567 --> 00:35:58,119 I needed to hear from him. I needed to see him. 693 00:35:58,119 --> 00:35:59,266 I needed to hear from him. I needed to see him. 694 00:36:09,667 --> 00:36:13,166 The very moment that I walked into that room and he sat across from me, 695 00:36:13,166 --> 00:36:16,066 he reached out and he said, "Thank you for coming." 696 00:36:16,066 --> 00:36:19,500 He was speaking to me a great deal about Jessica. 697 00:36:19,567 --> 00:36:21,667 He talks about strangling her. 698 00:36:21,667 --> 00:36:25,000 And he's giving me a very graphic description 699 00:36:25,066 --> 00:36:27,500 of what that sounds like and what that looks like. 700 00:36:29,100 --> 00:36:32,667 But during this, they bring him in lunch. 701 00:36:32,667 --> 00:36:37,300 And he stops, and apologizes for eating in front of me. 702 00:36:37,367 --> 00:36:40,300 Then, he picked right back up, 703 00:36:40,367 --> 00:36:42,800 talking about the most horrific and gruesome things 704 00:36:42,867 --> 00:36:45,867 that one person can do to another human being. 705 00:36:45,867 --> 00:36:49,100 No remorse, no guilt about the suffering of others. 706 00:36:50,500 --> 00:36:54,000 [Howard] I slid a picture of Grace across. 707 00:36:54,066 --> 00:36:57,367 And I flipped it over. And I said, "Did you kill her?" 708 00:36:57,367 --> 00:36:58,119 And he said, "Nope. She's not mine." 709 00:36:58,119 --> 00:36:59,867 And he said, "Nope. She's not mine." 710 00:36:59,867 --> 00:37:03,400 Larry gave me back my picture of Grace Doe. 711 00:37:03,467 --> 00:37:06,667 And what he said after that was, "I did not kill her. 712 00:37:06,667 --> 00:37:10,800 But I did kill the Springfield Three." 713 00:37:10,867 --> 00:37:13,867 [male reporter 1] Calls like this keep coming into the Springfield Police Department 714 00:37:13,867 --> 00:37:16,600 from people with information about Stacy McCall, 715 00:37:16,667 --> 00:37:19,667 Suzanne Streeter and Sherrill Levitt. 716 00:37:19,667 --> 00:37:23,467 [Howard] Suzie Streeter and Sherrill, mother and daughter. 717 00:37:23,467 --> 00:37:26,700 Suzie was the daughter. And then the friend was Stacy McCall. 718 00:37:26,767 --> 00:37:28,119 They disappeared one night coming home, early in the morning. 719 00:37:28,119 --> 00:37:31,467 They disappeared one night coming home, early in the morning. 720 00:37:31,467 --> 00:37:35,266 [male reporter 2] Police have set up this 24-hour command post on East Delmar, 721 00:37:35,266 --> 00:37:39,166 hoping someone comes forward with information about the missing women. 722 00:37:39,166 --> 00:37:43,567 There was a witness that came forward in that particular case that said, 723 00:37:43,567 --> 00:37:46,600 "We saw a brown and tan van." 724 00:37:46,667 --> 00:37:49,600 The same weekend that the Springfield Three disappeared, 725 00:37:49,667 --> 00:37:52,166 there was a Civil War reenactment. 726 00:37:52,166 --> 00:37:54,367 [Howard] It was the anniversary of the Battle of Wilson's Creek. 727 00:37:54,367 --> 00:37:56,867 And Larry was in the area. 728 00:37:56,867 --> 00:37:58,119 Detective Howard asked Larry Hall 729 00:37:58,119 --> 00:37:59,700 Detective Howard asked Larry Hall 730 00:37:59,767 --> 00:38:02,367 where the Springfield Three were buried. 731 00:38:02,367 --> 00:38:04,300 [Howard] And he says, "They're in the Mark Twain Forest." 732 00:38:06,066 --> 00:38:08,266 And he mentions his brother Gary. 733 00:38:08,266 --> 00:38:10,467 Larry stated more than one time to me 734 00:38:10,467 --> 00:38:14,200 that Gary was the driving force behind killing these girls. 735 00:38:14,266 --> 00:38:16,700 Gary would tell him what to do and Larry would do it. 736 00:38:16,767 --> 00:38:20,967 He wanted me to see that his brother was equally responsible. 737 00:38:20,967 --> 00:38:24,967 But I have no evidence to say that Gary was involved. 738 00:38:24,967 --> 00:38:26,867 But certainly, Larry believes it. 739 00:38:26,867 --> 00:38:28,119 [Miller] I think what Larry Hall did, he did alone. 740 00:38:28,119 --> 00:38:30,600 [Miller] I think what Larry Hall did, he did alone. 741 00:38:30,667 --> 00:38:32,767 He enjoyed being alone when he did 'em. 742 00:38:35,867 --> 00:38:39,166 I was shocked by the obvious pathology 743 00:38:39,166 --> 00:38:43,166 that lead Larry to do the awful things that he's done. 744 00:38:43,166 --> 00:38:46,867 It really made me think about how does it manifest 745 00:38:46,867 --> 00:38:49,467 when you have an identical twin? 746 00:38:49,467 --> 00:38:56,066 Are the personalities in any way connected or are they so divergent? 747 00:38:56,066 --> 00:38:58,119 There have been pairs of serial killers 748 00:38:58,119 --> 00:38:58,567 There have been pairs of serial killers 749 00:38:58,567 --> 00:39:01,967 that have worked in tandem in the past. But they are incredibly rare. 750 00:39:01,967 --> 00:39:05,700 Even though it's really tempting to think that his twin brother Gary 751 00:39:05,767 --> 00:39:08,467 could be involved in some of these missing women, 752 00:39:08,467 --> 00:39:13,367 there is absolutely no evidence other than Larry Hall suggesting it. 753 00:39:13,367 --> 00:39:15,867 Yeah, I could say I suspected some things, 754 00:39:15,867 --> 00:39:20,667 but I've never had evidence of Gary Hall doing any wrongdoing. 755 00:39:36,867 --> 00:39:43,000 [Howard] Gary is very, very adamant that his brother is 756 00:39:43,066 --> 00:39:46,600 completely and totally 100 percent responsible for all of these things. 757 00:39:53,467 --> 00:39:58,119 [Jordan] Larry Hall has confessed to dozens of murders. 758 00:39:58,119 --> 00:39:58,500 [Jordan] Larry Hall has confessed to dozens of murders. 759 00:39:58,567 --> 00:40:01,767 He recants everything, making him either 760 00:40:01,767 --> 00:40:04,600 one of the most prolific serial killers in history 761 00:40:04,667 --> 00:40:07,367 who's gotten away with it or 762 00:40:07,367 --> 00:40:11,567 one of the most effusive, false confessors in history. 763 00:40:11,567 --> 00:40:14,266 I think he was smarter than he was given credit for. 764 00:40:14,266 --> 00:40:16,367 Could he have done this on his own? 765 00:40:16,367 --> 00:40:18,867 Would he have? Did he have help? 766 00:40:18,867 --> 00:40:20,967 [Howard] It's crucial that you pick his mind 767 00:40:20,967 --> 00:40:23,166 and get information out of there. 768 00:40:23,166 --> 00:40:25,767 Because families are getting older, 769 00:40:25,767 --> 00:40:28,119 nobody deserves to live an entire life not knowing what happened 770 00:40:28,119 --> 00:40:30,867 nobody deserves to live an entire life not knowing what happened 771 00:40:30,867 --> 00:40:33,600 or to bring their child home. 772 00:40:33,667 --> 00:40:35,700 Thirty years is a long time not to know. 773 00:40:35,767 --> 00:40:40,367 Our children believe it's Larry Hall. Hands down. 774 00:40:40,367 --> 00:40:42,700 [Donna] Forensically, there's nothing that links 775 00:40:42,767 --> 00:40:45,266 Larry Hall to Trisha's disappearance. 776 00:40:45,266 --> 00:40:48,400 [Garry] Two confessions. And then all the articles in his van. 777 00:40:48,467 --> 00:40:50,200 -So you have hopes on that. -[Donna] Yeah. 778 00:40:50,266 --> 00:40:52,867 [Garry] But then it ends. There's nothing more that they can give you. 779 00:40:52,867 --> 00:40:55,867 Until we have something concrete, you can't really hang your head on that. 780 00:40:55,967 --> 00:40:57,367 Somebody knows something. 781 00:40:57,367 --> 00:40:58,119 There may be more people out there 782 00:40:58,119 --> 00:40:59,767 There may be more people out there 783 00:40:59,767 --> 00:41:04,166 who have something, something little, you know, that just maybe 784 00:41:04,166 --> 00:41:06,467 -will be that piece that ties it together. -Right. 785 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:08,700 And we hope. 786 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:24,000 The theory of Larry Dwayne Hall as a false confessor has faded away. 787 00:41:24,066 --> 00:41:28,000 But the debate about the full scope of his reign of terror rages on. 788 00:41:28,066 --> 00:41:28,119 In 1994, his confessed number of victims was 22. 789 00:41:28,119 --> 00:41:32,467 In 1994, his confessed number of victims was 22. 790 00:41:32,467 --> 00:41:35,767 Hall later claimed, in an interview with the Associated Press, 791 00:41:35,767 --> 00:41:40,467 that he'd picked up 39 women between 1980 and 1994. 792 00:41:40,467 --> 00:41:43,600 Some believe he may have committed more than 50 murders. 793 00:41:43,667 --> 00:41:46,100 People close to the case still have hope 794 00:41:46,166 --> 00:41:49,900 Larry Hall will one day bring police to Tricia Reitler's body, 795 00:41:49,967 --> 00:41:52,600 and put an end to her family's nightmare. 796 00:41:52,667 --> 00:41:55,000 I'm Donnie Wahlberg. Thank for watching. 797 00:41:55,066 --> 00:41:55,600 Good night.