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00:00:01,900 --> 00:00:05,100
[Eleanor] The first thought
of course is, the murderer.
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00:00:05,100 --> 00:00:06,100
He's back.
3
00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:08,467
What's gonna
happen next?
4
00:00:08,467 --> 00:00:11,867
I mean, a hundred things
go through your head.
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00:00:11,867 --> 00:00:14,166
He had to be stopped,
he had to be stopped.
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00:00:14,967 --> 00:00:16,400
He could get up, you know?
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00:00:16,467 --> 00:00:17,767
You don't know
what he's gonna do.
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00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:23,800
[theme music playing]
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00:00:42,100 --> 00:00:43,800
Welcome to Very Scary People.
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00:00:43,867 --> 00:00:45,266
I'm Donnie Wahlberg.
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00:00:45,266 --> 00:00:48,367
From the late
1960's until 1980,
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00:00:48,367 --> 00:00:52,266
a sadistic predator was
on the loose in New York
and New Jersey.
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00:00:52,266 --> 00:00:55,367
By all appearances, he seemed
like an unassuming family man.
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00:00:55,967 --> 00:00:57,567
Just a regular guy.
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00:00:57,567 --> 00:00:59,767
But he was preying
on young women.
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00:00:59,767 --> 00:01:00,000
Abducting them then
torturing and killing them.
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00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,000
Abducting them then
torturing and killing them.
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00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:07,567
His victims were
suburban housewives,
teenage girls and sex workers.
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00:01:07,567 --> 00:01:12,100
Some of his high profile
murders occurred around
Manhattan's Times Square.
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00:01:12,166 --> 00:01:16,166
But as it turned out,
his hunting ground
extended much further.
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00:01:16,166 --> 00:01:19,166
This is part one of
The Times Square Killer.
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00:01:29,567 --> 00:01:30,000
[suspenseful music playing]
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00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:31,600
[suspenseful music playing]
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00:01:31,667 --> 00:01:33,166
[sirens wailing]
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00:01:36,166 --> 00:01:38,266
[Dr. Melinda]
Whether it were
the girls and boys
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00:01:38,266 --> 00:01:40,900
coming from the Midwest,
the south, etcetera.
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00:01:41,867 --> 00:01:45,800
Times Square was
a destination
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00:01:45,867 --> 00:01:48,867
you could come drink,
you could be an adult,
you could have fun.
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[siren wailing]
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00:01:54,667 --> 00:01:56,867
[Dr. Melinda]
In the early 1970's,
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00:01:56,867 --> 00:01:59,066
Times Square
allowed for a lot
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00:01:59,066 --> 00:02:00,000
of people to engage
in street sex work
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00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,266
of people to engage
in street sex work
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00:02:02,266 --> 00:02:06,266
as well as to engage
in other kinds of hustles.
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00:02:09,166 --> 00:02:11,767
What is happening
in the 1970s is that
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00:02:11,767 --> 00:02:16,367
serial killers target
sex workers because
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00:02:16,367 --> 00:02:19,400
they are marginalized
and vulnerable.
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00:02:19,467 --> 00:02:22,900
They are a part
of what is called,
"The missing missing."
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In other words,
they're already missing
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00:02:26,367 --> 00:02:28,867
often from
their families
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00:02:28,867 --> 00:02:30,000
and therefore when
they go missing,
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and therefore when
they go missing,
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they are not reported.
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[indistinct conversation]
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00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,400
[Steve] It was a busy
morning like any other
in New York City.
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00:02:47,467 --> 00:02:50,100
Around 9:00 a.m.,
the fire department
got a call
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00:02:50,166 --> 00:02:52,266
from the Travel
Inn Motor Hotel
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00:02:52,266 --> 00:02:54,200
on 42nd Street
in Times Square.
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00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,266
Employees had noticed
smoke pouring out
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00:02:57,266 --> 00:02:59,967
of room 417 out
into the corridor.
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00:02:59,967 --> 00:03:00,000
[news woman 1]
Firemen, went into a fourth
floor motel room here
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00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,166
[news woman 1]
Firemen, went into a fourth
floor motel room here
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00:03:03,166 --> 00:03:05,000
to find the source of smoke.
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00:03:05,066 --> 00:03:09,166
That source was
two fires, one on each bed.
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00:03:09,166 --> 00:03:11,867
[Steve] A fireman
thought he saw people
lying on each bed.
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00:03:12,867 --> 00:03:14,400
They, uh, took
their bodies out
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00:03:14,467 --> 00:03:16,600
as best they could
with some help.
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00:03:16,667 --> 00:03:18,667
I was prepared
to take the... take them
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00:03:18,667 --> 00:03:20,767
and give them mouth
to mouth respiration,
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00:03:20,767 --> 00:03:24,166
uh, recovery and
discovered they
were without heads.
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00:03:25,500 --> 00:03:27,467
At first, since
they were headless,
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00:03:27,467 --> 00:03:30,000
he thought they were
just mannequins.
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00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:30,266
he thought they were
just mannequins.
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00:03:30,266 --> 00:03:33,467
Then he realized
that it was two naked
young females.
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00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:36,467
Their corpses have
been set on fire.
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00:03:39,567 --> 00:03:42,867
[Larry] The, uh,
heads and the hands
of both victims
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00:03:43,467 --> 00:03:44,500
had been cut off.
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00:03:45,266 --> 00:03:47,467
They were bleeding profusely.
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00:03:49,300 --> 00:03:51,266
[Rod] It was just
a really horrible scene.
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00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:54,767
[news woman 2]
This killer went
to great lengths
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00:03:54,767 --> 00:03:56,367
to destroy the women's
identities.
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00:04:00,500 --> 00:04:02,667
[Louis] Arson is a method
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00:04:02,667 --> 00:04:05,367
of impairing
the investigation.
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00:04:05,367 --> 00:04:06,367
Set the room on fire.
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00:04:07,567 --> 00:04:09,100
Fire destroys
all the evidence.
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00:04:16,266 --> 00:04:21,667
[Larry]
On November 29th, 1979,
a man identifying himself
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00:04:21,667 --> 00:04:25,367
as a Carl Wilson of Berlin,
New Jersey.
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00:04:25,367 --> 00:04:27,100
Checked in at
The Travel Inn
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00:04:27,100 --> 00:04:30,000
near Times Square,
was given a key to room 417.
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00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:30,066
near Times Square,
was given a key to room 417.
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00:04:31,567 --> 00:04:34,166
At some point after
he checks into the hotel,
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00:04:34,166 --> 00:04:37,066
he reaches out to contact
a couple of sex workers.
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00:04:38,700 --> 00:04:41,367
He ended up bringing
two young women
upstairs with him.
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00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:51,700
[Larry] In the early
morning hours,
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00:04:51,767 --> 00:04:54,066
smoke started coming
out of room 417.
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00:04:56,567 --> 00:05:00,000
When Mr. Wilson
leaves the, uh, the hotel,
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00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:00,100
When Mr. Wilson
leaves the, uh, the hotel,
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00:05:00,767 --> 00:05:03,300
he has a duffle bag.
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00:05:03,367 --> 00:05:05,667
And he wanders through
The Old Crossroad
of the World,
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00:05:05,667 --> 00:05:07,600
the neon of, uh,
Times Square
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00:05:07,667 --> 00:05:09,100
at about 3:30
in the morning.
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00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,266
And he's stopped
by two police officers
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00:05:14,500 --> 00:05:16,266
who were concerned
for his safety
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00:05:16,266 --> 00:05:17,900
as he walked
through Times Square,
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00:05:20,266 --> 00:05:24,667
And he just explained
to the two cops that he was
staying at a nearby hotel.
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00:05:24,667 --> 00:05:26,567
Everything was good, he was
getting something to eat
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00:05:28,667 --> 00:05:29,567
and he walked away.
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00:05:31,367 --> 00:05:33,000
If only police
had asked to see
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00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:34,567
what was inside
the duffle bag.
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00:05:37,467 --> 00:05:40,266
[news woman 3]
A lot of people figured
a psycho was on the loose.
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00:05:40,266 --> 00:05:43,100
[Rod] They called him
The Times Square Killer.
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00:05:45,166 --> 00:05:46,800
[Brenna]
He likes Times Square,
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00:05:46,867 --> 00:05:48,166
where he could
wander around
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00:05:48,166 --> 00:05:49,967
in the middle of
the night and
no one noticed.
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He would just kind of
turned into an animal
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00:05:52,867 --> 00:05:54,266
when it was night time,
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and he would start
hunting women.
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It was chilling,
horrifying what
he did to people.
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00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:00,667
It was chilling,
horrifying what
he did to people.
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00:06:05,166 --> 00:06:07,967
[Steve] What nobody knew
at the time of
the Travel Inn double murder
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00:06:07,967 --> 00:06:11,000
was that the killer
had been hunting women
for more than a decade.
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00:06:12,567 --> 00:06:14,166
And he wasn't just
doing it in Manhattan,
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00:06:14,166 --> 00:06:16,667
he was operating
across the river
in New Jersey.
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00:06:22,100 --> 00:06:27,300
[John] Bergen County,
it's the north eastern
corner of New Jersey.
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00:06:27,367 --> 00:06:30,000
It exist right across
the George Washington
Bridge from Manhattan.
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00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,367
It exist right across
the George Washington
Bridge from Manhattan.
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00:06:32,367 --> 00:06:34,000
It has a couple
of smaller cities
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00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:35,867
but is predominantly
suburban.
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00:06:41,166 --> 00:06:45,467
[John] Little Ferry,
New Jersey.
Small, blue collar town.
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Good people,
hard working people.
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00:06:48,467 --> 00:06:50,867
And obviously
what we know is,
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it doesn't matter how
small the town is,
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how quiet it is,
how bucolic.
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It can always
be a location
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00:06:57,767 --> 00:06:59,400
where a homicide
could occur.
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00:07:10,066 --> 00:07:12,100
[Brenna]
Nancy Vogel
was 29 years old.
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00:07:13,100 --> 00:07:15,400
Nancy was married, two kids
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00:07:15,467 --> 00:07:18,367
and she told her family
she was going out
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00:07:18,367 --> 00:07:20,000
to play bingo
in the local church.
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She stopped at a discount
store called Valley Fair
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00:07:26,367 --> 00:07:29,100
and she purchased
some items.
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00:07:29,100 --> 00:07:30,000
When she didn't
return home at
her usual time,
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When she didn't
return home at
her usual time,
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00:07:31,266 --> 00:07:33,567
her husband
became concerned.
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00:07:33,567 --> 00:07:35,200
As the hours passed
it seemed more and more
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00:07:35,266 --> 00:07:36,900
out of character for
the young mother.
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00:07:37,767 --> 00:07:40,367
So, she went
missing, her husband,
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00:07:41,266 --> 00:07:42,266
-called the police.
-[siren wailing]
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00:07:43,166 --> 00:07:47,100
There was a search
rather widely publicized.
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00:07:47,100 --> 00:07:50,700
There were BOLOs as we call
them put out beyond lookout.
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00:07:52,367 --> 00:07:56,367
Neighborhoods
were canvassed,
areas were searched.
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00:07:56,367 --> 00:08:00,000
After two or three days
the concern
then changes to,
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00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:00,667
After two or three days
the concern
then changes to,
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00:08:00,667 --> 00:08:03,100
"Well, you know, maybe
she just didn't run away."
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00:08:03,166 --> 00:08:07,100
You rarely, rarely,
rarely ever see
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00:08:07,166 --> 00:08:09,000
a mother run away
from their children.
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00:08:09,700 --> 00:08:10,834
They don't.
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00:08:17,367 --> 00:08:20,000
[Steve] Three days after
Nancy Vogel disappeared
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00:08:20,066 --> 00:08:25,100
two catholic school girls
were looking out from
a upstairs window
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00:08:25,166 --> 00:08:27,867
and they saw what
looked like a mannequin
in a parked car.
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00:08:29,367 --> 00:08:30,000
They went out
to investigate and
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They went out
to investigate and
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00:08:31,767 --> 00:08:34,166
they realized that
what they thought
was a mannequin
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00:08:34,166 --> 00:08:36,000
was actually
the missing woman.
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00:08:39,700 --> 00:08:43,166
[Steve] Nancy Vogel's
killer didn't just stick
to the suburbs of New Jersey.
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00:08:43,166 --> 00:08:44,800
[Larry] The killer was
in Manhattan.
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00:08:44,867 --> 00:08:47,767
He went into a bar
and ran into a woman there
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00:08:47,767 --> 00:08:51,000
She starts to feel dizzy
maybe as if something
was slipped in her drink.
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00:08:52,367 --> 00:08:53,934
She passes out.
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00:09:06,266 --> 00:09:10,000
[Steve] Three days after
Nancy Vogel, a young
mother disappeared,
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00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:11,967
two school girls
came across her body.
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00:09:13,166 --> 00:09:14,967
She was lying
in a parked car
on the street.
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00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,867
Her body was
discovered in
her own vehicle.
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00:09:21,867 --> 00:09:23,367
She was in the back
of the vehicle.
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00:09:24,100 --> 00:09:26,000
She was naked
and bound.
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00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,000
[John] She had been
sexually assaulted,
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00:09:30,066 --> 00:09:33,000
she had been beaten
predominantly on one side.
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00:09:34,066 --> 00:09:37,800
Nancy Vogel's cause
of death was strangulation
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00:09:37,867 --> 00:09:40,767
and also significant
blunt trauma.
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00:09:42,867 --> 00:09:47,967
[Luis] The primary way
serial sexual murderers
kill is by strangulation.
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00:09:47,967 --> 00:09:50,600
The most efficient
way to kill somebody
is with a gun
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00:09:50,667 --> 00:09:53,266
but they don't wanna
kill somebody efficiently
with a gun.
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00:09:53,266 --> 00:09:56,900
They wanna control
their death and control
their agony,
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00:09:56,967 --> 00:09:59,800
so that the victim
is aware of the power
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00:09:59,867 --> 00:10:02,166
and control and domination
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00:10:02,166 --> 00:10:04,001
that the offender
has over her.
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00:10:04,001 --> 00:10:04,266
that the offender
has over her.
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00:10:04,266 --> 00:10:07,867
This is arousing
to the serial sexual
murderers.
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00:10:10,667 --> 00:10:15,567
[John]
Her clothes were perfectly
folded underneath her.
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00:10:15,567 --> 00:10:19,467
Inside the trunk
of her car were
shopping bags.
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00:10:19,467 --> 00:10:21,867
Those bags had
come from a popular
store in the area.
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00:10:22,967 --> 00:10:25,100
[John] It was known
as the Valley Fair.
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00:10:25,166 --> 00:10:28,367
Big super market,
everybody in the area
would shop there.
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00:10:29,100 --> 00:10:30,767
So that would
have indicated
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00:10:30,767 --> 00:10:32,200
that she had
done some shopping.
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00:10:33,467 --> 00:10:34,001
[John] Which then
immediately brought
us to the point.
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00:10:34,001 --> 00:10:36,667
[John] Which then
immediately brought
us to the point.
188
00:10:36,667 --> 00:10:38,467
What happened
at Valley Fair?
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00:10:38,467 --> 00:10:40,266
Was there somebody
in the store?
190
00:10:40,266 --> 00:10:41,867
Was there somebody
in the parking lot?
191
00:10:41,867 --> 00:10:43,367
Was there somebody
that she met?
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00:10:44,967 --> 00:10:48,166
And I know law
enforcement worked
very hard.
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00:10:48,166 --> 00:10:50,800
What happened at
the bingo hall? What
happened at Valley Fair?
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00:10:53,266 --> 00:10:54,967
[Mike] Don't forget,
there was no cellphones.
195
00:10:55,867 --> 00:10:57,967
There was no cameras.
196
00:10:58,867 --> 00:11:02,000
Okay and, you know
cellphones and cameras
197
00:11:02,066 --> 00:11:04,001
play a huge role
today in solving crimes
198
00:11:04,001 --> 00:11:05,100
play a huge role
today in solving crimes
199
00:11:05,100 --> 00:11:08,200
because wherever
you are, you're on
camera, pretty much.
200
00:11:08,266 --> 00:11:11,166
So, you know,
law enforcement now
201
00:11:11,166 --> 00:11:12,900
has a lot of tools,
202
00:11:12,967 --> 00:11:14,867
they have a lot
more technology
203
00:11:14,867 --> 00:11:20,000
and crimes could
be solved in different
ways than years ago.
204
00:11:20,066 --> 00:11:23,467
[John]
So, it's a matter
of just trying to canvas
205
00:11:23,467 --> 00:11:26,567
who were the check out
people working that night.
206
00:11:26,567 --> 00:11:29,000
Was there a security detail?
207
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,467
One of the leads,
uh, back then was
that someone
208
00:11:33,467 --> 00:11:34,001
allegedly saw her talking with
somebody that was a hippie.
209
00:11:34,001 --> 00:11:38,200
allegedly saw her talking with
somebody that was a hippie.
210
00:11:38,266 --> 00:11:41,100
He had long hair
and I believe he wore
bell bottoms.
211
00:11:43,066 --> 00:11:46,166
But back in 1967
there were a lot
of hippies,
212
00:11:46,166 --> 00:11:49,767
so that kind of a lead
wasn't really gonna
help you too much.
213
00:11:51,266 --> 00:11:52,667
There were other leads
214
00:11:52,667 --> 00:11:55,266
and they were
all focused on
215
00:11:55,266 --> 00:11:57,967
apparently people
seeing her speaking
with others.
216
00:11:59,166 --> 00:12:00,667
[Steve] But the fact
she was at the store,
217
00:12:00,667 --> 00:12:02,567
might have been
friendly with people
who were there,
218
00:12:02,567 --> 00:12:04,001
uh, didn't raise
any red flags.
219
00:12:04,001 --> 00:12:04,667
uh, didn't raise
any red flags.
220
00:12:06,767 --> 00:12:08,967
No one person
stood out suspicious.
221
00:12:11,300 --> 00:12:13,967
But detectives did
notice something odd
about the crime scene.
222
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:19,166
One of the things that
was gnawing at police
223
00:12:19,166 --> 00:12:21,600
was that the vehicle
was locked
224
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,767
that Nancy Vogel's
body was found in
225
00:12:25,767 --> 00:12:27,166
and that the keys
were missing.
226
00:12:28,100 --> 00:12:30,100
Were nowhere to be
found inside
227
00:12:30,100 --> 00:12:32,467
nor were they found outside
the vehicle.
228
00:12:32,467 --> 00:12:34,001
So the killer took
the time to lock
the vehicle.
229
00:12:34,001 --> 00:12:35,667
So the killer took
the time to lock
the vehicle.
230
00:12:36,767 --> 00:12:39,467
[John]
Whoever committed this crime
231
00:12:39,467 --> 00:12:42,000
took the car keys
most likely because
232
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:46,300
they didn't want
some random person
opening up the car door.
233
00:12:46,367 --> 00:12:49,066
And this took
the investigation
in a direction
234
00:12:49,066 --> 00:12:52,000
that the detectives
had never expected.
235
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,967
On the day
following the report
of her being missing,
236
00:12:54,967 --> 00:12:57,367
her brother showed up
at Little Ferry police
237
00:12:57,367 --> 00:12:59,200
and said, "My sister
is missing
238
00:13:00,467 --> 00:13:02,266
but I found her car keys."
239
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,266
And gave the police
the keys to her car.
240
00:13:08,567 --> 00:13:09,767
[Steve]
This was shocking.
241
00:13:09,767 --> 00:13:13,000
Investigators knew that
whoever killed Nancy Vogel
242
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:14,567
locked the car
and took her keys.
243
00:13:15,567 --> 00:13:17,467
They knew that
the keys were missing
244
00:13:17,467 --> 00:13:19,367
and when they saw that
245
00:13:19,367 --> 00:13:21,600
here's her brother
with the car keys,
246
00:13:21,667 --> 00:13:24,000
immediately that
makes him a suspect.
247
00:13:24,066 --> 00:13:26,266
Police thought
how could he have
his sister's keys
248
00:13:26,266 --> 00:13:29,166
if he didn't have
something to do
with the murder?
249
00:13:29,166 --> 00:13:31,567
But there was nothing
else indicating that
he was guilty.
250
00:13:32,900 --> 00:13:34,001
[John]
So he was a suspect?
251
00:13:34,001 --> 00:13:34,367
[John]
So he was a suspect?
252
00:13:34,367 --> 00:13:37,000
Nowhere near enough
to charge him
253
00:13:37,066 --> 00:13:39,800
Now, some police officer
made a mistake back then
254
00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:41,767
and shared that with
255
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:44,300
one or more
of the family members
256
00:13:44,367 --> 00:13:46,500
which they should
not have done.
257
00:13:46,567 --> 00:13:48,200
[Steve] Even though
her brother was cleared,
258
00:13:48,266 --> 00:13:52,000
some of Nancy's relatives
were convinced he was guilty.
259
00:13:52,066 --> 00:13:54,400
They wouldn't
find out the truth
for more than 40 years.
260
00:13:57,900 --> 00:14:01,667
[Steve] Nancy Vogel's
killer continued to work
in the shadows.
261
00:14:01,667 --> 00:14:03,800
He didn't just stick
to the suburbs of New Jersey.
262
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,066
[Larry] The killer
was in Manhattan
263
00:14:23,066 --> 00:14:26,467
and he went into a bar
to have a drink and ran
into a woman there.
264
00:14:26,467 --> 00:14:29,200
A waitress,
named Karen Schlip.
265
00:14:29,266 --> 00:14:31,467
She was leaving
to go meet with
her boyfriend
266
00:14:31,467 --> 00:14:34,001
and she was approached
by a... a stranger wearing
267
00:14:34,001 --> 00:14:34,867
and she was approached
by a... a stranger wearing
268
00:14:34,867 --> 00:14:36,567
some sort of shaggy wig.
269
00:14:37,567 --> 00:14:38,767
He asked if she
was a hooker.
270
00:14:39,967 --> 00:14:41,767
Uh, she didn't really
271
00:14:41,767 --> 00:14:43,567
notice that he looked
a little off,
272
00:14:43,567 --> 00:14:46,100
you know and, uh...
273
00:14:46,100 --> 00:14:49,967
She said she was
not a prostitute,
they continued to talk
274
00:14:49,967 --> 00:14:53,266
and he identified
himself as Joseph Schafer.
275
00:14:55,100 --> 00:14:57,266
So after the two
are having a drink
at the bar,
276
00:14:58,767 --> 00:15:01,700
she starts to feel dizzy
maybe as if something
was slipped in her drink.
277
00:15:03,266 --> 00:15:04,001
She walks out
and starts to, uh,
wobble back home.
278
00:15:04,001 --> 00:15:06,567
She walks out
and starts to, uh,
wobble back home.
279
00:15:07,467 --> 00:15:10,500
At this point,
Mr. Schafer
280
00:15:10,567 --> 00:15:13,100
as she knew him, asked
if she needed a ride.
281
00:15:14,700 --> 00:15:17,367
She gets in the car
and she passes out.
282
00:15:18,967 --> 00:15:21,867
When she wakes up,
they're on the New Jersey
Turnpike
283
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,767
at which point, Schafer
as she knew him
284
00:15:25,767 --> 00:15:30,166
shoved tuanols,
they're a barbiturate and
used as a date rape drug
285
00:15:30,166 --> 00:15:32,100
into her mouth and
she passed out again.
286
00:15:38,667 --> 00:15:41,867
The next morning,
Karen woke up in
a drainage ditch
287
00:15:41,867 --> 00:15:43,667
up in Bergen County,
New Jersey.
288
00:15:48,266 --> 00:15:52,467
She was revived
by a police officer
who performed CPR on her.
289
00:15:52,467 --> 00:15:54,000
When she finally stabilized,
290
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:58,100
police had a lot
of questions about
exactly what had occurred.
291
00:15:58,100 --> 00:16:01,867
She's taken to the hospital
and, uh, they're looking
for a description
292
00:16:01,867 --> 00:16:04,001
but she's not really
able to give them
anything specific
293
00:16:04,001 --> 00:16:05,567
but she's not really
able to give them
anything specific
294
00:16:05,567 --> 00:16:09,100
it's just sort of a vague
description of this guy,
295
00:16:10,967 --> 00:16:13,767
and it leaves police
with little to chase.
296
00:16:16,266 --> 00:16:19,000
Police soon realize
the name Joseph Schafer
was an alias.
297
00:16:23,266 --> 00:16:25,200
[Mike] In the 70's
what was very
298
00:16:25,767 --> 00:16:29,166
normal was hitchhiking.
299
00:16:29,166 --> 00:16:30,567
A lot of these
young kids did it.
300
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,600
That was the fatal mistake
they made that day.
301
00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:44,166
[Steve] He is known
as The Times Square Killer
302
00:16:44,166 --> 00:16:46,667
but it really is a New Jersey
story because
303
00:16:46,667 --> 00:16:49,467
he was raised here
and a lot of his victims
were from here
304
00:16:50,700 --> 00:16:53,700
Basically his comfort zone
was right in Bergen County.
305
00:16:56,066 --> 00:16:57,967
In fact that's where
he lived this very
306
00:16:57,967 --> 00:17:00,100
unassuming, suburban
home life.
307
00:17:01,467 --> 00:17:03,000
[Larry] He's living
in Lodi, New Jersey
308
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,367
up in Bergen County
kind of a small,
309
00:17:05,367 --> 00:17:08,166
I guess bedroom
community for lack
of a better term.
310
00:17:08,166 --> 00:17:10,708
He was a average guy
who had a family.
311
00:17:10,708 --> 00:17:11,667
He was a average guy
who had a family.
312
00:17:11,667 --> 00:17:14,767
He had a wife and three
children, two boys and a girl.
313
00:17:15,900 --> 00:17:18,100
Had a home, had a job.
314
00:17:18,100 --> 00:17:20,500
And he was very
disarming to people
315
00:17:20,567 --> 00:17:22,900
because he didn't
look abnormal
316
00:17:22,967 --> 00:17:25,667
or disturbed or
deviant in any way.
317
00:17:26,700 --> 00:17:28,467
It was his averageness,
318
00:17:28,467 --> 00:17:32,000
his normalness that made
him particularly treacherous.
319
00:17:32,066 --> 00:17:36,667
[Louis] Many serial sexual
murderers are married or
in committed relationships
320
00:17:36,667 --> 00:17:39,166
at the time they're going
out murdering people
321
00:17:39,166 --> 00:17:40,300
and they'll interview
322
00:17:40,367 --> 00:17:40,708
the wife and
the wife will say,
323
00:17:40,708 --> 00:17:41,967
the wife and
the wife will say,
324
00:17:41,967 --> 00:17:45,367
"I knew something was
a little odd about the person
but I never ever thought
325
00:17:45,367 --> 00:17:49,000
in a million years that
he was going around
killing people."
326
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,400
[Steve] I don't even know
if it's cognitive dissonance
or something like that,
327
00:17:51,467 --> 00:17:55,200
I mean it's some
kind of remarkable
compartmentalization
328
00:17:55,266 --> 00:17:57,967
that it would take
to separate those
two lives.
329
00:18:07,667 --> 00:18:10,708
[Brenna]
Teenage, Mary Ann Pryor
and Lorraine Kelly
330
00:18:10,708 --> 00:18:11,100
[Brenna]
Teenage, Mary Ann Pryor
and Lorraine Kelly
331
00:18:11,100 --> 00:18:16,100
were going to the Jersey
Shore and they wanted
to get bathing suits.
332
00:18:16,100 --> 00:18:20,600
[Rod] Neither of them
are old enough to have
a motor vehicle licence.
333
00:18:20,667 --> 00:18:23,767
[Brenna]
So they were hitchhiking
to the Paramus mall.
334
00:18:23,767 --> 00:18:26,467
[Rod]
That was a way
of getting around.
335
00:18:26,467 --> 00:18:29,867
These are kids and,
uh, they figured they
can get away with it.
336
00:18:31,100 --> 00:18:33,100
[Mike] Now, you gotta
remember in the 70's,
337
00:18:33,100 --> 00:18:37,000
what was very normal
was hitchhiking.
338
00:18:38,266 --> 00:18:40,000
I mean, you would
drive down the street
339
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:40,708
and everybody would
be hitchhiking.
340
00:18:40,708 --> 00:18:42,066
and everybody would
be hitchhiking.
341
00:18:42,066 --> 00:18:44,166
It was absolutely dangerous
342
00:18:44,166 --> 00:18:47,400
for anyone to hitchhike
because you didn't know
who was picking you up.
343
00:18:48,500 --> 00:18:51,100
But a lot of these
young kids did it,
344
00:18:51,100 --> 00:18:53,367
and that was the fatal
mistake they made that day.
345
00:18:57,667 --> 00:19:01,166
[Steve] When Mary Ann Pryor
missed her 10 p.m. curfew,
her parents got worried.
346
00:19:03,500 --> 00:19:06,100
They start calling her friends
and then they realize that
347
00:19:06,166 --> 00:19:08,800
Lorraine has also
not come home.
348
00:19:08,867 --> 00:19:10,708
So, now there's two
missing teenagers.
349
00:19:10,708 --> 00:19:11,867
So, now there's two
missing teenagers.
350
00:19:13,100 --> 00:19:15,166
They call the North
Bergen County police
351
00:19:15,166 --> 00:19:19,467
and they have
to wait 24 hours
to file a police report.
352
00:19:19,467 --> 00:19:21,567
At that point, Mary Ann
was actually still alive.
353
00:19:23,567 --> 00:19:26,066
From what I know
about it, he could
come to a hotel.
354
00:19:28,166 --> 00:19:30,767
And he had forced them in
by saying, you know, that
355
00:19:30,767 --> 00:19:33,367
go into the hotel room or else
I'm gonna hurt you.
356
00:19:33,367 --> 00:19:37,200
He's menacing, he's an adult,
he's pretty strong
357
00:19:37,266 --> 00:19:40,200
and basically forces himself
on them.
358
00:19:41,667 --> 00:19:44,266
They were tied to beds
so they couldn't
escape during the night.
359
00:19:44,266 --> 00:19:48,166
And eventually, he drowned
them in the hotel bathtub.
360
00:19:48,867 --> 00:19:50,233
[girl screaming]
361
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,367
This is really the
prototypical serial sexual
murder.
362
00:19:58,500 --> 00:20:00,767
The more
excruciating the pain,
363
00:20:00,767 --> 00:20:04,000
the more suffering the
victim experiences,
364
00:20:04,066 --> 00:20:06,800
the more arousing it is for
the offender.
365
00:20:19,467 --> 00:20:22,567
Marry Ann's family was
listening to the radio when
something shocking came on.
366
00:20:24,266 --> 00:20:26,667
So they hear that they found
these two bodies.
367
00:20:27,667 --> 00:20:29,100
There was a knock on the door
368
00:20:29,166 --> 00:20:34,166
and it was the worst news
any family could get.
369
00:20:34,166 --> 00:20:39,500
Your daughter is missing
with her friend
and it's days on end.
370
00:20:39,567 --> 00:20:40,708
And then you hear
on the radio that
they found two bodies.
371
00:20:40,708 --> 00:20:43,667
And then you hear
on the radio that
they found two bodies.
372
00:20:43,667 --> 00:20:48,467
I mean, it is.
It is a scene
from an awful movie.
373
00:20:48,467 --> 00:20:52,767
Their bodies were discovered
in a construction site in
Montvale.
374
00:20:53,567 --> 00:20:56,000
They had both
been sexually assaulted.
375
00:20:56,900 --> 00:21:00,667
They had both
been beaten badly.
376
00:21:00,667 --> 00:21:04,567
They had to identify the girls
by jewelry that was found
on their body.
377
00:21:04,567 --> 00:21:06,900
The scene was a very difficult
one to process.
378
00:21:06,967 --> 00:21:08,967
You're not coming up with
fingerprints.
379
00:21:08,967 --> 00:21:10,708
Scene was not laned with blood
or other things that could
somehow give you clues.
380
00:21:10,708 --> 00:21:15,100
Scene was not laned with blood
or other things that could
somehow give you clues.
381
00:21:15,100 --> 00:21:16,700
There's no evidence of
dragging.
382
00:21:16,767 --> 00:21:19,567
You know, when you're
on a construction site,
it's hard to tell.
383
00:21:19,567 --> 00:21:24,266
The murder of these two
children disrupted the sense
of security
384
00:21:24,266 --> 00:21:27,567
the people felt in the
New Jersey suburbs.
385
00:21:27,567 --> 00:21:29,567
When people in New Jersey
watched the news every night
386
00:21:29,567 --> 00:21:32,066
and they hear murder after
murder occurring in Manhattan,
387
00:21:32,066 --> 00:21:33,967
New Jersey seems pretty safe.
388
00:21:33,967 --> 00:21:37,200
The last thing you expect to
see, you know,
389
00:21:37,266 --> 00:21:40,266
cops finding bodies on your
doorstep.
390
00:21:40,266 --> 00:21:40,708
Those two girls were my age,
were found not far from where
I grew up in Bergen County.
391
00:21:40,708 --> 00:21:46,200
Those two girls were my age,
were found not far from where
I grew up in Bergen County.
392
00:21:46,266 --> 00:21:50,600
And I actually remember when
the bodies were discovered.
393
00:21:50,667 --> 00:21:54,467
The New York Daily News ran
their pictures on the front
page.
394
00:21:55,767 --> 00:21:58,767
And I remember
that stuck with me.
395
00:21:58,767 --> 00:22:01,967
And I remember seeing
both of their eyes and
it made and impact on me.
396
00:22:04,667 --> 00:22:08,367
The law enforcement had no
idea whether the killer had
struck in this area before.
397
00:22:15,367 --> 00:22:18,600
It's strange because
there's a lot of deaths
in this area.
398
00:22:20,667 --> 00:22:22,467
He's not really travelling
that far,
399
00:22:22,467 --> 00:22:24,800
and there's all these
unsolved murders.
400
00:22:24,867 --> 00:22:28,667
But no one, at least
at the time, seems to be
putting them together.
401
00:22:28,667 --> 00:22:31,266
It would be decades before
anyone realized
402
00:22:31,266 --> 00:22:35,300
that the man who killed the
two teenagers was actually the
Times Square Killer.
403
00:22:49,300 --> 00:22:52,100
Welcome back to
Very Scary People.
404
00:22:52,100 --> 00:22:55,867
The Times Square Killer
continues to claim the lives
of innocent victims,
405
00:22:55,867 --> 00:22:59,266
leaving a trail of horrific
crimes in his wake.
406
00:22:59,266 --> 00:23:01,300
Meanwhile, police have no idea
407
00:23:01,367 --> 00:23:04,600
there's a serial killer
crisscrossing
the Hudson River,
408
00:23:04,667 --> 00:23:08,000
slaughtering women in
Manhattan and suburban
New Jersey.
409
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,800
And this man has no intention
of stopping.
410
00:23:14,367 --> 00:23:16,300
He killed a 29 year old women
411
00:23:16,367 --> 00:23:18,667
and he killed 13-year-olds.
412
00:23:18,667 --> 00:23:23,166
It's just this weird
bottomless pit of horror.
413
00:23:25,467 --> 00:23:29,600
He could be today
responsible for anywhere
between 85 and 100
414
00:23:29,667 --> 00:23:31,367
of these types of homicides.
415
00:23:32,767 --> 00:23:36,166
In 2009 French documentary,
the killer seemed to take
pride
416
00:23:36,166 --> 00:23:37,667
in the way that he evaded
authorities.
417
00:23:39,300 --> 00:23:40,367
[killer's voice]
418
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,500
Maryann Carr lived in
an apartment complex
419
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,767
in Little Ferry, New Jersey.
420
00:24:08,767 --> 00:24:12,266
She had been divorced
and recently remarried.
421
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,400
She was an X-ray technician.
422
00:24:15,467 --> 00:24:18,467
She was planning that day to
meet her mother-in-law and
just never appeared.
423
00:24:18,467 --> 00:24:22,500
So family members became
frantic, particularly because
her husband was out of town.
424
00:24:22,567 --> 00:24:24,066
They reached out
to the police.
425
00:24:25,367 --> 00:24:28,166
And it appears that she was
abducted.
426
00:24:28,166 --> 00:24:33,667
She was seen having
a confrontation with a man
in the parking lot.
427
00:24:33,667 --> 00:24:37,166
And then she was taken away
by the killer.
428
00:24:37,166 --> 00:24:41,867
He dumped her body in the
parking lot, I believe,
of the Quality Inn
429
00:24:41,867 --> 00:24:42,444
between a van and a fence.
430
00:24:42,444 --> 00:24:43,467
between a van and a fence.
431
00:24:47,166 --> 00:24:49,900
The hotel in suburban
Hasbrouck Heights, New Jersey
432
00:24:49,967 --> 00:24:53,567
was considered a safe place
by the guests and by the
workers.
433
00:24:56,066 --> 00:24:59,367
[Eleanor]
The Quality Inn in Hasbrouck
Heights, where I worked.
434
00:25:00,867 --> 00:25:03,166
My father was
a maintenance man.
435
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:09,266
I was looking for a part time
job, 'cause now the kids
were in school and all.
436
00:25:09,266 --> 00:25:11,367
He used say, need help with
the Quality Inn.
437
00:25:12,266 --> 00:25:12,444
I said, okay...
438
00:25:12,444 --> 00:25:13,600
I said, okay...
439
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:14,967
Doing what?
440
00:25:14,967 --> 00:25:17,800
Cleaning rooms.
Oh, all right.
441
00:25:17,867 --> 00:25:20,300
I could do that.
Clean my house,
clean rooms.
442
00:25:20,367 --> 00:25:23,767
My best friend worked there.
443
00:25:23,767 --> 00:25:26,467
My sister-in-law worked there.
444
00:25:26,467 --> 00:25:28,700
We were just a big family.
445
00:25:28,767 --> 00:25:32,367
Some of our guests were
the Giants football players.
446
00:25:32,367 --> 00:25:36,200
And they would watch cartoons
before they went to play their
game.
447
00:25:36,266 --> 00:25:37,800
I used to talk to them.
448
00:25:37,867 --> 00:25:39,667
Wrestlers would stay there,
449
00:25:40,100 --> 00:25:41,033
businessmen.
450
00:25:44,100 --> 00:25:46,100
Now, the hotel
was thrown into disarray.
451
00:25:47,900 --> 00:25:50,066
My father saw it.
452
00:25:50,066 --> 00:25:55,066
And he was telling me,
"Elly, they found a body
in the parking lot."
453
00:25:55,066 --> 00:25:58,367
That was just... that's all we
knew about Maryann Carr.
454
00:26:01,500 --> 00:26:06,667
When she was found dead,
Carr also had marks around her
wrists and her ankles,
455
00:26:06,667 --> 00:26:10,166
which indicated that she was
probably handcuffed at some
point.
456
00:26:10,166 --> 00:26:12,444
There was a ligature mark
around her neck
457
00:26:12,444 --> 00:26:12,667
There was a ligature mark
around her neck
458
00:26:12,667 --> 00:26:15,867
and traces of adhesive tape
around her mouth.
459
00:26:15,867 --> 00:26:20,800
She had been bitten all over
the body, sexually abused.
460
00:26:20,867 --> 00:26:26,367
We thought it was just some
nut, murderer, whatever dumped
the body there.
461
00:26:26,367 --> 00:26:28,800
We did not expect the person
to come back.
462
00:26:28,867 --> 00:26:30,433
But as time went on,
463
00:26:30,433 --> 00:26:33,867
authorities would realize
that the killer
was a creature of habit.
464
00:26:33,867 --> 00:26:37,166
And the Quality Inn at
Hasbrouck Heights was one of
his favorite stops.
465
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,367
He keeps coming back to
the Quality Inn.
466
00:26:42,367 --> 00:26:42,444
And used it not only for his
deeds of murder and mayhem,
467
00:26:42,444 --> 00:26:48,967
And used it not only for his
deeds of murder and mayhem,
468
00:26:48,967 --> 00:26:54,367
but he also was dating a woman
and brought her there a couple
of different times.
469
00:26:55,467 --> 00:26:58,867
It is very, very typical for
any criminal
470
00:26:58,867 --> 00:27:03,600
to operate where they feel
comfort and they feel
comfortable by familiarity.
471
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:11,767
As detectives
retraced the killer's steps,
they came up with a clue.
472
00:27:11,767 --> 00:27:12,444
There was an eyewitness
who was driving past
the apartment complex
473
00:27:12,444 --> 00:27:15,467
There was an eyewitness
who was driving past
the apartment complex
474
00:27:15,467 --> 00:27:17,767
where the abduction
took place,
475
00:27:17,767 --> 00:27:21,166
who thought that he had
actually seen the victim's
husband
476
00:27:21,166 --> 00:27:22,867
in the rereview mirror.
477
00:27:22,867 --> 00:27:25,166
Detectives questioned the
husband
478
00:27:25,166 --> 00:27:28,767
to see if he was actually on
a business trip as he claimed.
479
00:27:28,767 --> 00:27:33,166
But he was later able to
produce an alibi and clear
himself of any
480
00:27:33,166 --> 00:27:35,100
wrongdoing or involvement at
all in the case.
481
00:27:40,266 --> 00:27:42,444
What detectives didn't realize
was that Maryann Carr
482
00:27:42,444 --> 00:27:43,867
What detectives didn't realize
was that Maryann Carr
483
00:27:43,867 --> 00:27:46,066
and another victim had lived
in the same place.
484
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,967
Like the Quality Inn,
this was another example
of
485
00:27:49,967 --> 00:27:52,667
the killer returning to places
that he was familiar with.
486
00:27:53,900 --> 00:27:58,000
Two of his victims Nancy Vogel
and Maryann Carr
487
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,066
both lived in the same
apartment complex,
488
00:28:00,066 --> 00:28:02,367
even though the murders
occurred 10 years apart.
489
00:28:03,300 --> 00:28:05,000
They were sporadic events.
490
00:28:05,967 --> 00:28:08,100
It wasn't like...
491
00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:11,667
these things were happening
every week,
492
00:28:11,667 --> 00:28:12,444
and they would say,
"Hey, this is the same guy."
493
00:28:12,444 --> 00:28:13,667
and they would say,
"Hey, this is the same guy."
494
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,400
Because you have couple of
years later a different
detective.
495
00:28:18,467 --> 00:28:21,000
Maybe some of these detectives
were transferred out.
496
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,266
Okay, so...
497
00:28:23,266 --> 00:28:27,600
could somebody say, it is
similar to something we had
a couple of years ago, yes.
498
00:28:27,667 --> 00:28:32,867
But the technology wasn't in
place back then that it is
now.
499
00:28:32,867 --> 00:28:35,767
DNA would've made a difference
but obviously it wasn't there.
500
00:28:35,767 --> 00:28:42,000
Many homicides are...
there's a family
or familial connection.
501
00:28:42,066 --> 00:28:42,444
Many of them are based up on
crimes of passion.
502
00:28:42,444 --> 00:28:45,166
Many of them are based up on
crimes of passion.
503
00:28:45,166 --> 00:28:48,000
But the ones that where the
victims
504
00:28:48,867 --> 00:28:52,100
don't have a connection
to the murderer,
505
00:28:52,100 --> 00:28:56,266
those are the ones that are
difficult to really pinpoint.
506
00:28:56,266 --> 00:29:00,100
It makes them also very
difficult to solve.
507
00:29:00,100 --> 00:29:05,567
You have all these very tiny
police departments who may
not be tying things together.
508
00:29:05,567 --> 00:29:10,100
Law enforcement has always
been a tribal sort of thing.
509
00:29:10,100 --> 00:29:12,444
And the communication isn't
always there.
510
00:29:12,444 --> 00:29:13,000
And the communication isn't
always there.
511
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:19,100
In Bergen County, there are 73
independent and separate
police departments,
512
00:29:19,100 --> 00:29:23,867
69 municipals and at the time,
you had county police
and sheriff's department.
513
00:29:23,867 --> 00:29:28,367
So communicating between
independent departments was
even more problematic.
514
00:29:28,367 --> 00:29:32,700
Things back then were much
more manual, much more
written.
515
00:29:32,767 --> 00:29:38,200
They had detective bureaus
and they would have
detective associations.
516
00:29:38,266 --> 00:29:42,444
These detectives from multiple
towns would get together and
share notes.
517
00:29:42,444 --> 00:29:42,567
These detectives from multiple
towns would get together and
share notes.
518
00:29:42,567 --> 00:29:43,834
But that was about it.
519
00:29:43,834 --> 00:29:48,567
It was hard.
It was hard, it was much more
challenging.
520
00:29:48,567 --> 00:29:53,000
There was no internet.
There was no way for the
jurisdictions to communicate
521
00:29:53,066 --> 00:29:56,800
and be like, maybe we've got
a serial killer here,
522
00:29:56,867 --> 00:29:59,367
maybe this is one person
committing all these crimes.
523
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,867
The killer identifies
where he works and says
he has a computer job
524
00:30:07,867 --> 00:30:10,867
and his house in the suburbs.
525
00:30:10,867 --> 00:30:12,444
He was revealing facts about
his life.
526
00:30:12,444 --> 00:30:13,400
He was revealing facts about
his life.
527
00:30:14,667 --> 00:30:16,467
Doesn't make any difference
really what he tell them,
528
00:30:16,467 --> 00:30:18,100
cause his plan is to kill
them.
529
00:30:28,300 --> 00:30:32,767
In October 1978, as police
were trying to find out
the identity of a man
530
00:30:32,767 --> 00:30:35,867
who left a body outside a
New Jersey hotel,
531
00:30:38,367 --> 00:30:42,367
the Times Square Killer was
back in Manhattan doing
what he always did.
532
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,166
A sex worker named
Susan Geiger, who was
working the streets
533
00:30:51,166 --> 00:30:56,449
when a stranger who identified
himself as Jim approached and
offered her $200 for a date.
534
00:30:56,449 --> 00:30:58,000
when a stranger who identified
himself as Jim approached and
offered her $200 for a date.
535
00:30:58,066 --> 00:31:01,200
She said she was booked up,
but gave him a phone number
to contact her at.
536
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,867
This guy just seemed like
a nice person that needed
company.
537
00:31:07,767 --> 00:31:10,467
And they met in an Irish bar
in Manhattan
538
00:31:11,767 --> 00:31:13,567
in the shadow of the
Queensborough Bridge.
539
00:31:15,567 --> 00:31:18,000
Jim whipped out a big wad
of cash.
540
00:31:18,066 --> 00:31:19,867
Claimed that he had won
the money gambling.
541
00:31:20,367 --> 00:31:21,400
He then,
542
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:23,667
bizarrely,
543
00:31:23,667 --> 00:31:26,449
identifies where he works
and says that he has
a computer job
544
00:31:26,449 --> 00:31:27,567
identifies where he works
and says that he has
a computer job
545
00:31:27,567 --> 00:31:29,266
and his house in the suburbs.
546
00:31:29,266 --> 00:31:31,100
All of which is true.
547
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,166
In fact, the killer had been
working in computer technology
for more than a decade.
548
00:31:37,166 --> 00:31:42,000
He was employed as a mainframe
computer operator at a major
insurance company.
549
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,867
He was largely living
and doing his thing out in
New Jersey.
550
00:31:46,867 --> 00:31:51,266
Although, the whole time he
was employed, he was working
in New York City.
551
00:31:51,266 --> 00:31:56,449
And he began to get active
with prostitutes, sometimes
two or three times a week.
552
00:31:56,449 --> 00:31:56,600
And he began to get active
with prostitutes, sometimes
two or three times a week.
553
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,467
He likes to get away with
things he's not supposed
to of.
554
00:32:00,467 --> 00:32:04,567
He would, apparently while he
was working at the insurance
company, just leave,
555
00:32:04,567 --> 00:32:07,667
go to sex clubs, do his thing
and then come back.
556
00:32:09,867 --> 00:32:12,367
And despite being married,
he was also dating a nurse.
557
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,567
She was somebody that he met
when he was out carousing.
558
00:32:18,467 --> 00:32:20,000
He met her at a bar.
559
00:32:20,767 --> 00:32:22,600
And they had a fling.
560
00:32:22,667 --> 00:32:26,449
He actually stayed with her
as a boyfriend-girlfriend for
a period of time.
561
00:32:26,449 --> 00:32:28,100
He actually stayed with her
as a boyfriend-girlfriend for
a period of time.
562
00:32:28,100 --> 00:32:31,567
In the meantime,
he still got his hobby,
563
00:32:31,567 --> 00:32:36,600
his extracurricular activity
while he's out, you know,
murdering women.
564
00:32:39,500 --> 00:32:43,767
For a guy to be in the
computer business in 1960s
is an anomaly, right?
565
00:32:43,767 --> 00:32:46,100
There weren't that many
computers.
566
00:32:46,100 --> 00:32:49,667
He's on the cusp of the
cutting edge, you know,
at that point.
567
00:32:49,667 --> 00:32:52,900
And he's pretty bright,
and he knows it.
568
00:32:52,967 --> 00:32:56,449
This is a guy who walked
around in a suit and tie,
569
00:32:56,449 --> 00:32:57,200
This is a guy who walked
around in a suit and tie,
570
00:32:57,266 --> 00:33:04,166
business person with a family
and a home in a New Jersey
suburb,
571
00:33:04,166 --> 00:33:06,567
and came and went and nobody
suspected him.
572
00:33:07,867 --> 00:33:11,266
But look at the monster that
he really was.
573
00:33:15,667 --> 00:33:18,600
To this point, he had been
meticulous.
574
00:33:18,667 --> 00:33:22,700
But now, as he is sitting in a
Manhattan bar with a sex
worker named Susan Geiger,
575
00:33:22,767 --> 00:33:25,700
he was giving away information
that could lead to his arrest.
576
00:33:27,467 --> 00:33:31,300
It does seem strange
that he's revealing facts
about his life.
577
00:33:31,367 --> 00:33:34,667
He's trying to make the victim
feel comfortable, relax them.
578
00:33:34,667 --> 00:33:38,066
He knows in his mind what
he's gonna do, but he doesn't
want them to be frightened.
579
00:33:38,066 --> 00:33:40,200
So he tells them about himself
and so on.
580
00:33:40,266 --> 00:33:43,367
From his perspective,
it doesn't make any difference
really what he tells them,
581
00:33:43,367 --> 00:33:45,200
because his plan is to
kill them.
582
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,100
Susan and a customer were
talking in the bar,
583
00:33:50,166 --> 00:33:52,300
that's when he began to put
his plan into action.
584
00:33:53,567 --> 00:33:56,000
Susan gets up to go to
the bathroom,
585
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:56,449
he orders a round of
screwdrivers
586
00:33:56,449 --> 00:33:58,700
he orders a round of
screwdrivers
587
00:33:58,767 --> 00:34:03,867
hoping that the juice would
hide the taste of the pills
he wanted to slip her.
588
00:34:05,266 --> 00:34:07,166
It did, she passed out.
589
00:34:08,467 --> 00:34:12,100
It doesn't surprise me that he
would drug sex workers.
590
00:34:12,100 --> 00:34:13,200
It's interesting.
591
00:34:13,266 --> 00:34:16,767
Some serial sexual murderers
avoid prostitutes, why?
592
00:34:16,767 --> 00:34:20,367
Because prostitutes tend to be
street people, they're strong,
593
00:34:20,367 --> 00:34:22,200
they can take care of
themselves.
594
00:34:22,266 --> 00:34:25,967
And if you feel weak inside,
as so many of them do,
595
00:34:25,967 --> 00:34:26,449
they don't wanna tussle
with a prostitute.
596
00:34:26,449 --> 00:34:28,567
they don't wanna tussle
with a prostitute.
597
00:34:28,567 --> 00:34:30,867
Because they may be
overpowered by the person.
598
00:34:30,867 --> 00:34:34,967
So what did he do, he drugged
them. Got them drowsy
and groggy.
599
00:34:34,967 --> 00:34:37,967
So he can dominate them,
so he can control them.
600
00:34:39,867 --> 00:34:43,700
As with other victims,
Susan Geiger was taken out
of Manhattan
601
00:34:43,767 --> 00:34:45,667
and brought to New Jersey.
602
00:34:45,667 --> 00:34:51,266
She recalls being driven in a
dirty, green Thunderbird
603
00:34:52,100 --> 00:34:55,066
and then waking up in
a hotel room.
604
00:34:58,367 --> 00:35:00,066
She had been tortured and
left for dead.
605
00:35:01,300 --> 00:35:02,700
But when the killer left,
606
00:35:02,700 --> 00:35:05,100
she managed to call the police
and describe what happened
to her.
607
00:35:06,467 --> 00:35:10,467
In 2009 documentary, he
explained how excited he got
608
00:35:10,467 --> 00:35:12,166
during these violent
encounters.
609
00:35:13,467 --> 00:35:14,867
[killer's voice]
610
00:35:30,066 --> 00:35:33,767
But at this point,
the authorities still
did not see any pattern
611
00:35:33,767 --> 00:35:36,000
among all the suspect's
crimes.
612
00:35:37,266 --> 00:35:39,000
And at the insurance company
where he worked,
613
00:35:39,066 --> 00:35:41,667
he behaved as if he didn't
have any care in the world.
614
00:35:43,166 --> 00:35:44,667
He would disappear.
615
00:35:44,667 --> 00:35:47,000
You know, he'd be gone for
hours at a time.
616
00:35:47,066 --> 00:35:52,467
And his bosses didn't seem to
mind or do anything about it.
617
00:35:52,467 --> 00:35:54,967
There again,
he's a pretty bright guy.
618
00:35:54,967 --> 00:35:56,449
And when he did show up,
he was supposedly
a good worker.
619
00:35:56,449 --> 00:35:59,367
And when he did show up,
he was supposedly
a good worker.
620
00:35:59,367 --> 00:36:03,667
Even at the office, parts of
his real personality were
coming through.
621
00:36:03,667 --> 00:36:05,500
He always seem to have
a lot of money.
622
00:36:05,567 --> 00:36:08,100
And it was never clear where
he got the money from.
623
00:36:08,100 --> 00:36:10,467
But he bragged about being
a very successful gambler.
624
00:36:11,867 --> 00:36:15,667
Some coworkers accused him
of stealing keys to their
desks
625
00:36:15,667 --> 00:36:17,667
and taking things that didn't
belong to him.
626
00:36:20,567 --> 00:36:23,066
I don't whether he was
actually a loan shark,
627
00:36:23,066 --> 00:36:26,449
but he was loaning money
to coworkers.
628
00:36:26,449 --> 00:36:26,467
but he was loaning money
to coworkers.
629
00:36:26,467 --> 00:36:28,800
He was known to have
extra cash.
630
00:36:28,867 --> 00:36:32,266
So he'd be somebody that
they would go to, you know,
for this.
631
00:36:34,767 --> 00:36:37,367
At his job, he was talking to
his friends
632
00:36:37,367 --> 00:36:40,867
about prostitutes and women
and this sort of things.
633
00:36:40,867 --> 00:36:42,567
It's a little bit off color.
634
00:36:42,567 --> 00:36:46,000
Now, after his coworkers found
out what he did,
635
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,100
they now look back and see it
in much different way.
636
00:36:52,100 --> 00:36:54,066
He loved the cat and mouse
game.
637
00:37:00,767 --> 00:37:05,266
He said to his coworkers when
they discussed the murders,
638
00:37:05,266 --> 00:37:08,166
he said, it could be you,
could be me,
could be anybody.
639
00:37:19,266 --> 00:37:23,667
In 1979, the vicious assaults
against women in New York
and New Jersey
640
00:37:23,667 --> 00:37:25,767
only seemed to be getting
worse.
641
00:37:25,767 --> 00:37:29,667
His attacks appeared to ramp
up in terms of violence
642
00:37:29,667 --> 00:37:34,867
and maybe leaving
little clues behind for
investigators.
643
00:37:34,867 --> 00:37:39,667
People lived in fear and the
Times Square Killer's exploits
were splashed across the
644
00:37:39,667 --> 00:37:41,667
front pages of the tabloids.
645
00:37:41,667 --> 00:37:43,667
He loved the cat and mouse
game.
646
00:37:43,667 --> 00:37:45,983
He definitely did.
647
00:37:45,983 --> 00:37:46,166
He definitely did.
648
00:37:46,166 --> 00:37:50,567
In 2009, in the documentary,
he told journalist
Nadia Fezzani
649
00:37:50,567 --> 00:37:52,600
about his compulsion
to continue his spree.
650
00:37:53,767 --> 00:37:54,600
[killer's voice]
651
00:37:58,767 --> 00:37:59,600
[Nadia Fezzani]
652
00:38:02,266 --> 00:38:03,834
[killer]
653
00:38:16,266 --> 00:38:18,467
[news reporter] Around
2 o'clock this morning,
this young woman
654
00:38:18,467 --> 00:38:20,567
dressed in a beige skirt
and jacket
655
00:38:20,567 --> 00:38:24,867
checked into a room on the
11th floor of the Seville
Hotel on East 29th Street.
656
00:38:26,300 --> 00:38:29,967
[man] He was with a sex worker
by the name of
Jean Marie Reyner.
657
00:38:29,967 --> 00:38:32,567
[news reporter] Shortly after
8 a.m., a hotel employee
658
00:38:32,567 --> 00:38:35,166
discovered her room
filled with smoke.
659
00:38:35,166 --> 00:38:41,900
She's found in the room
strangled. And now,
unlike the previous case,
660
00:38:41,967 --> 00:38:45,983
where he'd killed two women
in a hotel in
the Times Square area,
661
00:38:45,983 --> 00:38:46,266
where he'd killed two women
in a hotel in
the Times Square area,
662
00:38:46,266 --> 00:38:49,100
her head and her hands
were intact.
663
00:38:49,166 --> 00:38:51,367
Yet, the killer still
mutilated the body.
664
00:38:52,767 --> 00:38:56,166
Before he departed the room,
he lit the mattress on fire.
665
00:38:58,500 --> 00:39:00,700
In the 2009 documentary,
666
00:39:00,767 --> 00:39:05,800
journalist Nadia Fezzani asked
the killer, why he decided to
mutilate the body.
667
00:39:05,867 --> 00:39:07,667
[killer] I mean,
she was already dead.
668
00:39:07,667 --> 00:39:09,767
I mean, it wasn't something
that she was alive.
669
00:39:10,900 --> 00:39:12,433
[killer continues speaking]
670
00:39:16,700 --> 00:39:20,200
The killer said that he wanted
sensationalism and now
he was getting it.
671
00:39:21,767 --> 00:39:26,467
This was exactly the kind of
crime that the tabloids
existed to cover.
672
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:28,367
Right near Wheelhouse,
673
00:39:29,367 --> 00:39:32,000
he's in Times Square
all of a sudden.
674
00:39:32,066 --> 00:39:34,667
You know, the bright lights of
Broadway or whatever.
675
00:39:34,667 --> 00:39:37,166
There's more attention,
more media.
676
00:39:37,166 --> 00:39:39,467
For a brief period, it seemed
like everyone in New York
677
00:39:39,467 --> 00:39:42,200
was talking about the
Times Square Killer.
678
00:39:42,266 --> 00:39:44,767
It's interesting that he said
to his coworkers,
679
00:39:44,767 --> 00:39:45,983
when they discussed the Times
Square murders and so on,
680
00:39:45,983 --> 00:39:47,567
when they discussed the Times
Square murders and so on,
681
00:39:47,567 --> 00:39:50,767
it could be you, it could be
me, it could be anybody.
682
00:39:54,367 --> 00:39:57,867
A housekeeper
walked into room 132.
683
00:39:57,867 --> 00:40:01,867
She says, I hit something
under the bed
and it was an arm.
684
00:40:01,867 --> 00:40:05,500
Not just an arm,
it's a whole body.
685
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:08,700
He was above the law.
686
00:40:08,767 --> 00:40:11,367
It was going to be his show.
687
00:40:11,367 --> 00:40:15,367
He wanted to see what it
felt like to have someone
under his control.
688
00:40:15,367 --> 00:40:15,983
It comes down to him being
a control freak
689
00:40:15,983 --> 00:40:18,700
It comes down to him being
a control freak
690
00:40:18,767 --> 00:40:21,867
and doing whatever he wants to
do and getting away with it.
691
00:40:23,867 --> 00:40:29,300
And this car pulls up.
And this guy with this stupid,
smirky smile.
692
00:40:29,367 --> 00:40:33,166
I just got this weird danger
feeling.
693
00:40:33,166 --> 00:40:36,367
Stranger danger.
And he kept looking at me.
694
00:40:36,367 --> 00:40:39,066
It was horrifying, horrifying.
695
00:40:39,066 --> 00:40:43,266
They're looking around
and they stumble upon
a trophy room.
696
00:40:43,266 --> 00:40:45,983
He's got a place where he's
keeping these little trinkets
697
00:40:45,983 --> 00:40:46,967
He's got a place where he's
keeping these little trinkets
698
00:40:46,967 --> 00:40:50,800
to stimulate his fantasies in
the future.
699
00:40:50,867 --> 00:40:54,800
One of the police came in the
side door with a shotgun
700
00:40:54,867 --> 00:40:57,066
and they were aiming it
at this guy.
701
00:40:57,066 --> 00:41:00,367
There's tons of unsolved
crimes in New Jersey and
New York.
702
00:41:00,367 --> 00:41:04,100
These are names that I will
never forget.
703
00:41:04,166 --> 00:41:07,967
We're gonna be hearing about
victims of his for decades.
704
00:41:11,967 --> 00:41:15,500
As the Times Square Killer
continued his deadly campaign,
705
00:41:15,567 --> 00:41:15,983
detectives were wondering when
he would slip up.
706
00:41:15,983 --> 00:41:18,600
detectives were wondering when
he would slip up.
707
00:41:18,667 --> 00:41:21,000
And who exactly was this man?
708
00:41:21,066 --> 00:41:24,867
What could possibly drive
someone to such a level of
evil and depravity?
709
00:41:25,467 --> 00:41:26,900
Sinister double life,
710
00:41:26,967 --> 00:41:28,667
shocking confessions
711
00:41:28,667 --> 00:41:31,567
and dark secrets revealed in
part two of
712
00:41:32,100 --> 00:41:33,700
the Times Square Killer.
713
00:41:33,767 --> 00:41:37,000
I'm Donny Wahlberg,
thanks for watching,
good night.