1 00:00:27,694 --> 00:00:28,704 Mark. 2 00:00:31,489 --> 00:00:34,029 LA. It's a cesspool... 3 00:00:34,117 --> 00:00:35,537 of creativity! 4 00:00:36,077 --> 00:00:40,617 Here in Los Angeles, everybody thinks they have the next big idea, 5 00:00:40,707 --> 00:00:43,877 but only one or two actually become the next big thing. 6 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:45,750 The rest kinda end up in the trash. 7 00:00:46,338 --> 00:00:49,668 See this script? I've been working on this for six years. 8 00:00:50,925 --> 00:00:52,135 It's garbage now. 9 00:00:52,218 --> 00:00:56,218 In LA, everyone knows that a great idea can change your life. 10 00:00:56,306 --> 00:00:59,226 Also, a bad idea can change your life, but for the worse. 11 00:00:59,809 --> 00:01:02,559 I think that's self-explanatory. Anyway, I'm Paul Scheer. 12 00:01:02,645 --> 00:01:06,315 I'm an actor, director, writer, podcaster. 13 00:01:06,399 --> 00:01:10,199 I've been in a movie where I've been attacked by killer piranha twice actually. 14 00:01:10,278 --> 00:01:12,028 I've done a lot of amazing things, 15 00:01:12,113 --> 00:01:15,623 but I still have a big dream and that's to work for Disney. 16 00:01:15,700 --> 00:01:17,990 I mean, they have my favorite properties ever. 17 00:01:18,078 --> 00:01:19,078 Marvel's here now. 18 00:01:19,162 --> 00:01:22,212 I mean, I grew up loving Marvel comic books. 19 00:01:22,290 --> 00:01:24,790 I swear to God, that photo is not doctored at all. 20 00:01:25,502 --> 00:01:27,422 Today, I'm meeting the executives at Disney+ 21 00:01:27,504 --> 00:01:29,514 to talk to them about what they're looking for 22 00:01:29,589 --> 00:01:31,509 in their brand-new shows, so we'll see. 23 00:02:09,421 --> 00:02:11,841 -Hey, Paul. They're ready for you. -Okay, great. 24 00:02:11,923 --> 00:02:14,133 -Thank you so much for coming in. -Thank you for being here. 25 00:02:14,217 --> 00:02:15,757 Yes, it's fantastic to have you. 26 00:02:15,844 --> 00:02:19,514 I'm Agnes. Um, I oversee content for Disney+. 27 00:02:19,597 --> 00:02:20,637 Um, this is Sarah. 28 00:02:20,724 --> 00:02:24,644 Hi. Sarah Shepard. I work on the Original Scripted Content team with Agnes. 29 00:02:24,728 --> 00:02:25,728 And Dan Silver. 30 00:02:25,812 --> 00:02:27,772 I run Nonfiction for Disney+. 31 00:02:27,856 --> 00:02:29,976 Let me just tell you, I'm a huge Disney fan, 32 00:02:30,066 --> 00:02:33,946 and I just kinda wanna understand what you're looking for at Disney+. 33 00:02:34,029 --> 00:02:37,069 Disney+ represents the timeless storytelling of our brands, 34 00:02:37,157 --> 00:02:40,327 but, also, we're looking for new stories and new worlds and characters. 35 00:02:40,410 --> 00:02:42,620 So interesting to kinda figure out what I would like to do, 36 00:02:42,704 --> 00:02:46,174 but I think the thing I'm most gravitating towards right now is Marvel. 37 00:02:46,249 --> 00:02:48,339 I mean, I've written a handful of Marvel comic books, 38 00:02:48,418 --> 00:02:49,748 but I gotta be honest, 39 00:02:49,836 --> 00:02:54,256 I feel like all the best Marvel characters are kinda spoken for. 40 00:02:54,883 --> 00:02:56,553 Well, that's not necessarily the case. 41 00:02:56,634 --> 00:02:59,434 There are 8,000 characters within the Marvel Universe. 42 00:02:59,512 --> 00:03:03,432 Just go to the Marvel Handbook, and I would just flip to any page. 43 00:03:03,516 --> 00:03:05,886 There's gotta be something in there that you could probably find. 44 00:03:05,977 --> 00:03:08,607 Yeah. Go deep, um, see what you can find, 45 00:03:08,688 --> 00:03:11,398 think outside the box, and then come back to us with some ideas. 46 00:03:11,483 --> 00:03:13,153 You're right. I'll do my research, 47 00:03:13,234 --> 00:03:16,744 and I'll go back to the basics, like Rocky training for a big fight, 48 00:03:16,821 --> 00:03:19,571 but be warned, you better take off your shoes, 49 00:03:19,657 --> 00:03:22,157 -'cause I'm gonna knock your socks off. -[all laugh] 50 00:03:22,243 --> 00:03:24,373 [Scheer] Killer joke, Paul. You are crushing it. 51 00:03:25,914 --> 00:03:30,134 Disney+ threw down the gauntlet, and it was my chance to pick it up? 52 00:03:30,210 --> 00:03:32,800 I dunno. I'm not really good with medieval metaphors. 53 00:03:32,879 --> 00:03:36,009 All I knew was that I needed to plumb the depths of Marvel's history 54 00:03:36,091 --> 00:03:38,801 and find characters who never really got their shot. 55 00:03:38,885 --> 00:03:40,345 So I gathered my documentary crew 56 00:03:40,428 --> 00:03:43,258 to meet and talk with some of my favorite Marvel writers, 57 00:03:43,348 --> 00:03:47,388 Reggie Hudlin, Donny Cates, and Gerry Duggan, 58 00:03:47,477 --> 00:03:51,607 to pick their brains about some Marvel history and forgotten characters. 59 00:03:51,690 --> 00:03:58,660 There's a great history in Marvel of people taking underutilized characters 60 00:03:58,738 --> 00:04:01,408 -and taking them from B-list to A-list. -Right. 61 00:04:01,491 --> 00:04:03,541 The X-Men was canceled. 62 00:04:03,618 --> 00:04:05,828 They didn't even make it to 100 issues 63 00:04:05,912 --> 00:04:07,292 -when they first came out, -Whoa. 64 00:04:07,372 --> 00:04:09,372 and, all of a sudden, they were reinvented 65 00:04:09,457 --> 00:04:14,087 and became giant superstars, with a number one book at Marvel. 66 00:04:15,171 --> 00:04:18,471 They might seem crazy or, like, dumb at the time, 67 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,470 but Wolverine, when he first showed up, looked like a Goof Troop. 68 00:04:22,554 --> 00:04:24,564 -He looks like a goober. [chuckles] -Yeah, yeah, yeah. 69 00:04:24,639 --> 00:04:27,349 He's got a little kitty cat-like mask on his face, 70 00:04:27,434 --> 00:04:29,854 and his claws were supposed to be a part of his gloves, 71 00:04:29,936 --> 00:04:31,976 but someone found it and had a cool story for it, 72 00:04:32,063 --> 00:04:34,773 and they turned it into a real thing. 73 00:04:34,858 --> 00:04:36,688 [Scheer] Gerry, when you wrote Deadpool, 74 00:04:36,776 --> 00:04:39,316 you often brought back these older Marvel characters. 75 00:04:39,404 --> 00:04:40,784 What was the thinking behind that? 76 00:04:40,864 --> 00:04:42,574 We tried to take a couple of deep dives, 77 00:04:42,657 --> 00:04:45,657 -and we found a character like Madcap-- -Wait, wait, who's Madcap? 78 00:04:46,578 --> 00:04:49,458 [Duggan] He was a young man in a car accident, 79 00:04:49,539 --> 00:04:53,419 who ran into an A.I.M. truck filled with some toxic slop. 80 00:04:53,501 --> 00:04:55,551 We have to have the goop in there. He gets covered in goop. 81 00:04:55,628 --> 00:04:58,758 It's just good comicking to have some toxic slop 82 00:04:58,840 --> 00:05:02,260 that gives you something, as it hopefully takes something from you. 83 00:05:02,344 --> 00:05:07,224 But Madcap ended up, sort of, having an interesting power set for Deadpool. 84 00:05:07,307 --> 00:05:11,227 You can chop off Madcap's arm. It will pop back on. 85 00:05:11,311 --> 00:05:14,861 So we tried to make him a dark mirror for Deadpool. 86 00:05:14,939 --> 00:05:16,319 [Scheer] Yeah. 87 00:05:16,399 --> 00:05:20,239 I think what's fascinating about you is, you take this character of Black Panther, 88 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,450 -at a time when Black Panther, -Mm-hmm. 89 00:05:22,530 --> 00:05:25,950 for lack of a better term, it's like a B-list character when you take it over, 90 00:05:26,034 --> 00:05:28,754 and you, kind of, imbue it with all this energy. 91 00:05:28,828 --> 00:05:30,158 Was it daunting? 92 00:05:30,246 --> 00:05:34,576 I knew what the opportunity was with Black Panther if I did it right. 93 00:05:35,126 --> 00:05:40,296 I said, "I'm gonna write the comic book equivalent of a Public Enemy record, 94 00:05:40,382 --> 00:05:45,602 a completely uncompromised, politically provocative book," 95 00:05:45,679 --> 00:05:47,969 and that was the key to success. 96 00:05:48,056 --> 00:05:51,306 Suddenly, we're selling huge numbers. 97 00:05:51,393 --> 00:05:54,693 I mean, more comics than when Stan and Jack was writing the book. 98 00:05:56,147 --> 00:05:59,687 Do you remember any of those books that you read, 99 00:05:59,776 --> 00:06:03,066 they didn't maybe catch on or they were a little ahead of their time? 100 00:06:03,154 --> 00:06:05,664 There was a character, uh, named Doctor Druid. 101 00:06:06,157 --> 00:06:07,947 He shows up in an Avengers issue, 102 00:06:08,034 --> 00:06:09,084 -on the cover. -Okay. 103 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:10,500 He's fighting crime in a bathrobe. 104 00:06:10,578 --> 00:06:12,748 He was like a pre-Lebowski Lebowski, 105 00:06:13,498 --> 00:06:16,378 and I go, "Here's a man of leisure, a magic-user. 106 00:06:16,459 --> 00:06:18,209 -I'm immediately interested." -Yeah. 107 00:06:18,294 --> 00:06:20,384 -"What's his origin? How did this happen?" -Yeah. 108 00:06:20,463 --> 00:06:23,593 Well, his origin was, he just kinda bumped into the same guy 109 00:06:23,675 --> 00:06:25,925 that made Doctor Strange, the Ancient One, 110 00:06:26,011 --> 00:06:28,561 and he gave him some magic powers to go away. 111 00:06:28,638 --> 00:06:31,218 -[chuckles] -And I was like, "Wait, why are we-- 112 00:06:31,307 --> 00:06:34,937 Why are we having bargain-basement Sorcerer Supreme now?" 113 00:06:35,603 --> 00:06:38,193 There's a character called the Whizzer. 114 00:06:38,273 --> 00:06:41,993 The Whizzer can run so fast that he can make little tornadoes. 115 00:06:42,068 --> 00:06:44,398 -[Scheer] Okay. -So he will do some stuff really fast, 116 00:06:44,487 --> 00:06:46,487 and then people are, sort of, sucked up. 117 00:06:46,573 --> 00:06:48,703 [Scheer] So, almost like a Tasmanian Devil-esque? 118 00:06:48,783 --> 00:06:49,703 [Duggan] Yes. 119 00:06:49,784 --> 00:06:54,294 His origin was that he, uh, was injected with, 120 00:06:54,372 --> 00:06:57,132 or injected himself with, mongoose blood. 121 00:06:57,208 --> 00:07:00,378 What was in the mongoose blood? Is it like radioactive mongoose blood? 122 00:07:00,462 --> 00:07:03,052 I don't know. Are mongooses known for being fast? 123 00:07:03,131 --> 00:07:05,131 I mean, even if they are, 124 00:07:05,216 --> 00:07:08,426 you wouldn't just get the power of a mongoose through the blood. 125 00:07:08,511 --> 00:07:10,971 You ever heard of the bad guy Typeface? 126 00:07:11,056 --> 00:07:13,676 Like-- like-- like a typeface, like a printing typeface? 127 00:07:13,767 --> 00:07:15,687 -Type on his face. -No. 128 00:07:16,269 --> 00:07:21,519 [Cates] He's this guy who worked for this sign-making company, 129 00:07:21,608 --> 00:07:24,398 and then a new guy comes in and buys his building 130 00:07:24,486 --> 00:07:26,446 -and fires him, -Okay. 131 00:07:26,529 --> 00:07:28,239 and now he's a supervillain. 132 00:07:28,323 --> 00:07:31,333 -I swear to God, that's-- -A sign-making supervillain? 133 00:07:31,409 --> 00:07:36,619 [Cates] He has letters that he took off of the sign, attached all over his body, 134 00:07:36,706 --> 00:07:40,536 and he writes in perfect signage painting. 135 00:07:40,627 --> 00:07:44,547 He puts an "R" on his forehead that is for "revenge," 136 00:07:45,298 --> 00:07:47,588 and then he just throws these letters, like... 137 00:07:47,676 --> 00:07:49,256 [Scheer laughs] 138 00:07:49,344 --> 00:07:53,974 [Duggan] A super fun idea that came out of the '80s was Damage Control. 139 00:07:54,057 --> 00:07:56,227 -These are not superheroes. -Okay. 140 00:07:56,309 --> 00:08:00,019 This is a group that showed up after the superhero fight, 141 00:08:00,563 --> 00:08:02,943 to, like, dig out from under it. 142 00:08:03,024 --> 00:08:04,984 -They pick up the buildings-- -They're basically contractors? 143 00:08:05,068 --> 00:08:10,818 They're contractors who show up to clean up the superhero mess. 144 00:08:11,616 --> 00:08:14,736 Satan's son is a superhero in the Marvel Universe. 145 00:08:15,286 --> 00:08:18,706 He has a very on-the-nose name of Son of Satan. 146 00:08:19,249 --> 00:08:21,459 Like, no outfit. 147 00:08:21,543 --> 00:08:27,013 He's just got the '70s open chest with a pentagram on it. 148 00:08:27,090 --> 00:08:29,760 -So he's a bad guy obviously. -No, he's a good guy. 149 00:08:29,843 --> 00:08:30,893 -What? -Yeah, he ha-- 150 00:08:30,969 --> 00:08:32,719 That's-- See now all of a sudden-- 151 00:08:32,804 --> 00:08:33,894 -Yeah, now-- -I-- You-- 152 00:08:33,972 --> 00:08:37,982 I would be interested in a villain, but now I'm super interested in a hero. 153 00:08:38,059 --> 00:08:39,809 Yeah. I love that. So he's Satan's son. 154 00:08:39,894 --> 00:08:41,354 -Is he rebelling against Satan? -Yeah. 155 00:08:41,438 --> 00:08:44,068 He's like, "I'm gonna go be with the heroes now." 156 00:08:44,941 --> 00:08:49,401 Okay, so let me tell you about one of my favorite and craziest books. 157 00:08:49,487 --> 00:08:50,527 Okay. 158 00:08:50,613 --> 00:08:54,283 I don't know if you've ever heard of the trucker superhero, U.S. 1. 159 00:08:54,367 --> 00:08:56,407 Wait, I didn't even know there was a trucker superhero. 160 00:08:56,494 --> 00:08:59,084 -Superhero is a real strong word. -Okay. [chuckles] 161 00:08:59,164 --> 00:09:00,754 -Um, it was a 12-issue series, -Okay. 162 00:09:00,832 --> 00:09:02,962 and it was during, like, the big-rig boom 163 00:09:03,043 --> 00:09:04,753 where they had all these films and TV shows 164 00:09:04,836 --> 00:09:07,416 about truckers were, like, the coolest thing in the world. 165 00:09:08,131 --> 00:09:11,011 He grows up in a legacy trucking family. 166 00:09:11,092 --> 00:09:13,432 Everyone in his family are truckers. 167 00:09:13,511 --> 00:09:16,811 So, he wants to be a trucker so bad, right? 168 00:09:17,349 --> 00:09:20,349 But [chuckles] his family insist that he go to college. 169 00:09:20,435 --> 00:09:21,975 -Uh, he doesn't want that at all. -No. 170 00:09:22,062 --> 00:09:25,822 Then, he's in his brother's rig, 171 00:09:25,899 --> 00:09:29,279 and this rig comes out of nowhere and pushes them off the road, 172 00:09:29,361 --> 00:09:33,161 -and his brother dies, and U.S. gets-- -Okay. 173 00:09:33,239 --> 00:09:36,619 his head gets caved in, and he, like, all but dies. 174 00:09:36,701 --> 00:09:37,951 This is insane. 175 00:09:38,036 --> 00:09:42,206 For whatever reason, U.S. was a guy who was important enough, 176 00:09:42,290 --> 00:09:46,670 where they did experimental surgery to fix his brain, 177 00:09:46,753 --> 00:09:49,923 and they put this crazy metal plate in his head, 178 00:09:50,006 --> 00:09:51,336 and when they did that, 179 00:09:51,424 --> 00:09:55,184 he discovered that by pressing his tongue to his fillings, 180 00:09:55,261 --> 00:09:57,681 he could pick up CB radio transmissions. 181 00:09:57,764 --> 00:10:00,854 [Scheer] This is the most insane thing ever. 182 00:10:00,934 --> 00:10:05,024 So, he's got the power of a CB radio in his body-- 183 00:10:05,105 --> 00:10:08,015 -Which I don't know what it gets you. -It seems like if he had the power 184 00:10:08,108 --> 00:10:10,238 to control trucks with his mind, that's something. 185 00:10:10,318 --> 00:10:11,278 -That's a thing. -Yeah. 186 00:10:11,945 --> 00:10:15,905 [Cates] By the end of the 12-issue run, it ends in space. 187 00:10:16,783 --> 00:10:18,703 Okay, and now they're in space? 188 00:10:18,785 --> 00:10:21,245 [Cates] He ends this whole thing as a space trucker. 189 00:10:21,329 --> 00:10:24,039 [Scheer chuckles] Come on. How could that not be a hit? 190 00:10:24,124 --> 00:10:28,254 I do have one lead for you. There's a group called Brute Force. 191 00:10:28,336 --> 00:10:30,046 Wait, wait, what's Brute Force? 192 00:10:30,130 --> 00:10:34,430 Brute Force is a group of, uh, superhero animals 193 00:10:34,509 --> 00:10:36,759 -that are fighting for the environment. -Okay. 194 00:10:36,845 --> 00:10:39,215 Wait, [stammers] they're like The Avengers, but animals? 195 00:10:39,305 --> 00:10:41,265 This is amaz-- This is a whole team? 196 00:10:41,725 --> 00:10:43,725 It's a dolphin with a sub-machine gun. 197 00:10:44,269 --> 00:10:45,729 Wait-- How does he hold it? 198 00:10:45,812 --> 00:10:48,862 -Flingers. It's like a flipper... -[chuckles] 199 00:10:48,940 --> 00:10:51,990 Wait, is he literally, like-- So, the flippers are carrying a gun? 200 00:10:52,068 --> 00:10:53,278 These are science heroes. 201 00:10:53,361 --> 00:10:54,451 -Let's be honest. -Okay, sure. 202 00:10:54,529 --> 00:10:57,619 There's not a lot of toxic goop, uh, that made these guys. 203 00:10:58,116 --> 00:11:01,786 Brute Force. I love this. I love the title. I love the idea. This-- 204 00:11:01,870 --> 00:11:03,410 -We need more Brute Force. -We do. 205 00:11:03,496 --> 00:11:06,456 I mean, this is an amaz-- This is the best lead I've gotten. 206 00:11:08,460 --> 00:11:11,380 [Scheer] Brute Force was awesome and weird. 207 00:11:11,463 --> 00:11:14,673 I mean, very, very weird, and since it only had four issues, 208 00:11:14,758 --> 00:11:17,888 it didn't take me long to become, kind of, a Brute Force scholar. 209 00:11:18,595 --> 00:11:20,175 So, here's what you need to know. 210 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,560 Brute Force opens with a group of deranged clowns, 211 00:11:25,643 --> 00:11:28,813 yes, clowns, who break into the lab of Dr. Pierce, 212 00:11:28,897 --> 00:11:33,027 who we can tell is a super cool doctor because, you know, he's got a ponytail. 213 00:11:33,902 --> 00:11:36,072 Now they're there to steal a gorilla, which they do, 214 00:11:36,154 --> 00:11:38,494 and Dr. Pierce isn't some nerd scientist 215 00:11:38,573 --> 00:11:41,163 who's gonna wait for authorities to handle this matter. No, no, no. 216 00:11:41,242 --> 00:11:42,372 He's got a ponytail. 217 00:11:42,452 --> 00:11:45,252 So instead, he equips and arms a group of animals, 218 00:11:45,330 --> 00:11:49,880 a bear, kangaroo, dolphin, lion and eagle, 219 00:11:49,959 --> 00:11:51,919 with something he calls power armor, 220 00:11:52,504 --> 00:11:57,014 which gives them human-level speech, intelligence and various other powers. 221 00:11:57,092 --> 00:11:59,342 One of which, seemingly, is infighting. 222 00:11:59,427 --> 00:12:03,637 This team fights more than my estranged family at a forced reunion. 223 00:12:03,723 --> 00:12:05,773 Over the course of the four-issue series, 224 00:12:05,850 --> 00:12:10,150 we find Brute Force facing off against an evil CEO named Frost, 225 00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:13,690 whose evil plans are to defeat all of his corporate enemies 226 00:12:13,775 --> 00:12:16,945 and/or turn humanity into pollution breathing monsters? 227 00:12:17,028 --> 00:12:18,698 I'm not 100% clear on that. 228 00:12:18,780 --> 00:12:23,330 Did I mention that Frost also has a team of equally matched cybernetic animals? 229 00:12:23,410 --> 00:12:25,370 'Cause, yeah. He does. 230 00:12:25,453 --> 00:12:28,373 That's why he kidnapped a gorilla in the first place, and, seemingly, 231 00:12:28,456 --> 00:12:32,666 that's the only successful mission he's able to pull off in the entire series. 232 00:12:33,753 --> 00:12:36,053 Brute Force were basically animal mercenaries 233 00:12:36,131 --> 00:12:38,381 who protect the planet from those who would do it harm. 234 00:12:38,466 --> 00:12:41,086 They attacked oil tankers, destroyed coal plants 235 00:12:41,177 --> 00:12:43,507 and even saved the rain forest, twice. 236 00:12:44,848 --> 00:12:46,178 Even though they were victorious, 237 00:12:46,266 --> 00:12:49,766 it seemed like they sometimes created major collateral damage in the process, 238 00:12:49,853 --> 00:12:53,153 but it's all good when you have a kangaroo who can quip like this. 239 00:12:55,191 --> 00:12:58,321 I mean, honestly, after reading this, I was curious why it didn't work. 240 00:12:58,403 --> 00:13:01,453 I mean, what's not to love about this superhero team? 241 00:13:02,907 --> 00:13:05,737 What do you think the difference is when an idea works and when it doesn't work? 242 00:13:05,827 --> 00:13:09,617 You have to look at a couple of things. One is, did you do it good enough? 243 00:13:09,706 --> 00:13:12,206 -Right. -It's very easy to project out, 244 00:13:12,292 --> 00:13:15,422 "Oh, the people are stupid," or "I was ahead of my time," 245 00:13:15,503 --> 00:13:21,053 or maybe you just didn't quite execute the idea as strong as it should have been. 246 00:13:21,134 --> 00:13:24,394 The other thing is, you could suffer the pains of being first. 247 00:13:24,471 --> 00:13:25,471 -Right. -Right? 248 00:13:25,555 --> 00:13:29,885 And sometimes you're the breakthrough, but not the breakout. 249 00:13:29,976 --> 00:13:32,346 You know, maybe, people will look back and go, 250 00:13:32,437 --> 00:13:36,187 "This book was the first to actually go there, to cross the line, 251 00:13:36,274 --> 00:13:39,114 and then other people built off that," or maybe not. 252 00:13:39,736 --> 00:13:41,736 We can't know how history's gonna judge us. 253 00:13:42,781 --> 00:13:44,451 [Scheer] Reggie was right. 254 00:13:44,532 --> 00:13:46,452 Brute Force was ahead of its time, 255 00:13:46,534 --> 00:13:49,794 and I know he didn't directly kinda "say that" say that, 256 00:13:49,871 --> 00:13:53,171 but this is a documentary. I gotta find connective tissue somewhere. 257 00:13:53,249 --> 00:13:58,129 So, if I was gonna rebirth Brute Force, I needed to find out more about it. 258 00:13:58,213 --> 00:14:01,473 I mean, its creation, its development, who was behind it, 259 00:14:01,549 --> 00:14:03,389 and that brought me to its editor. 260 00:14:03,468 --> 00:14:07,178 My name is Bob Budiansky, and from 1976 through 1996, 261 00:14:07,263 --> 00:14:10,563 I was an artist, writer, and editor for Marvel Comics. 262 00:14:10,642 --> 00:14:14,402 I had a fairly-- [stammers] a fairly unique job at Marvel. 263 00:14:14,479 --> 00:14:16,939 My job evolved into becoming the special projects editor. 264 00:14:17,857 --> 00:14:19,727 This is back in the middle of the 1980s, 265 00:14:19,818 --> 00:14:22,198 and Marvel was getting all of these companies 266 00:14:22,278 --> 00:14:24,528 coming at Marvel, right and left, saying, 267 00:14:24,614 --> 00:14:27,584 "Hey, we want you to develop our property into a comic book." 268 00:14:27,659 --> 00:14:31,329 These were toy companies, movie companies, the National Football League, 269 00:14:31,413 --> 00:14:35,213 and so my job as an editor was to work with the company 270 00:14:35,291 --> 00:14:38,131 to create their vision, whatever that might be, 271 00:14:38,211 --> 00:14:39,921 and make it a successful comic book. 272 00:14:40,005 --> 00:14:44,255 I had the opportunity to get a whole range of experiences like this, 273 00:14:44,342 --> 00:14:47,972 of trying out new things and seeing if the market would accept it. 274 00:14:48,805 --> 00:14:50,675 I think it all began with Star Wars. 275 00:14:50,765 --> 00:14:52,765 Marvel started putting out Star Wars comic books 276 00:14:52,851 --> 00:14:56,691 a few months before the movie came out, and they were tremendously successful, 277 00:14:56,771 --> 00:14:58,821 and, obviously, Star Wars was tremendously successful, 278 00:14:58,898 --> 00:15:02,778 and that, uh, evolved into the next big project that Marvel did, 279 00:15:02,861 --> 00:15:05,611 which was G.I. Joe, a similar success story. 280 00:15:06,531 --> 00:15:08,581 And then the next big one was Transformers. 281 00:15:09,617 --> 00:15:12,697 The job of an editor is to get the product out the door, 282 00:15:12,787 --> 00:15:15,667 to assemble the creative teams, to give 'em guidance, 283 00:15:15,749 --> 00:15:17,709 and to get it out by certain deadlines. 284 00:15:17,792 --> 00:15:23,172 I was multitasking, you know, 10 or 15 different projects at a time, typically. 285 00:15:23,256 --> 00:15:27,586 So, Brute Force was just another blip on the radar for me. 286 00:15:28,511 --> 00:15:30,811 It was a miniseries. Sure, we'll give it a shot. 287 00:15:30,889 --> 00:15:33,519 I didn't make the decisions about whether to accept publishing it or not. 288 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,310 It was given to me by my editor in chief at the time, Tom DeFalco. 289 00:15:37,979 --> 00:15:40,649 I think the thinking behind it was, up until then, 290 00:15:40,732 --> 00:15:44,692 Marvel had been extremely successful developing story lines 291 00:15:44,778 --> 00:15:47,858 for toy properties owned by other toy companies, 292 00:15:47,947 --> 00:15:50,487 G.I. Joe and Transformers being the obvious examples, 293 00:15:51,201 --> 00:15:53,581 but Marvel had yet to develop its own line of characters 294 00:15:53,661 --> 00:15:57,621 that could be turned into toys as successful as Transformers and G.I. Joe. 295 00:15:57,707 --> 00:16:00,957 So, Charlie came, you know, made his presentation. 296 00:16:01,044 --> 00:16:03,884 I think Tom DeFalco thought there was some potential there. 297 00:16:03,963 --> 00:16:06,843 We could produce these characters that are very toyetic. 298 00:16:06,925 --> 00:16:10,175 You know, they are these animals that have all these robotic features. 299 00:16:10,261 --> 00:16:13,221 It was the hot thing back then with Transformers being in the market. 300 00:16:13,306 --> 00:16:14,926 So, Marvel wanted to give it a chance 301 00:16:15,016 --> 00:16:19,266 and see if it could be developed into animation, into a toy line somewhere. 302 00:16:20,355 --> 00:16:24,775 I don't remember the conversation and how I said to Simon, "I want you," 303 00:16:24,859 --> 00:16:28,739 or whatever, but he was a guy I was familiar with, and he was hungry. 304 00:16:28,822 --> 00:16:30,072 So, it was a good fit. 305 00:16:31,282 --> 00:16:34,832 [Scheer] I was getting close to unlocking the mystery of Brute Force, 306 00:16:34,911 --> 00:16:39,081 and now I had a clue: Simon Furman, the writer of Brute Force. 307 00:16:39,165 --> 00:16:42,125 And I needed to travel to London to speak to him immediately. 308 00:16:42,544 --> 00:16:45,304 Hey, Paul. We're not budgeted for international travel. 309 00:16:47,632 --> 00:16:51,472 [Scheer] On second thought, why travel when I have a computer 310 00:16:51,553 --> 00:16:53,813 and a semi-fast Internet connection... 311 00:16:55,015 --> 00:16:57,225 which is truly the best way to communicate, 312 00:16:57,308 --> 00:16:58,768 especially in a documentary 313 00:16:58,852 --> 00:17:01,942 where you really wanna see the person and be in the same room with them. 314 00:17:02,022 --> 00:17:05,402 I'm Simon Furman, a writer for Marvel Comics. 315 00:17:05,942 --> 00:17:07,862 [Scheer] Simon was an influential comic creator 316 00:17:07,944 --> 00:17:11,324 that started at Marvel on books like Alpha Flight and Death's Head. 317 00:17:11,698 --> 00:17:14,328 He took over Transformers from Bob in the 1990s 318 00:17:14,409 --> 00:17:17,449 and has become one of the most prolific writers in that series' history. 319 00:17:18,246 --> 00:17:20,916 He also wrote all four issues of Brute Force, 320 00:17:20,999 --> 00:17:22,919 and I wanted to see how he got involved 321 00:17:23,001 --> 00:17:25,751 with such a crazy, weird book and what he thought of it. 322 00:17:26,421 --> 00:17:27,761 Brute Force is a strange one 323 00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:33,049 because it came from an animator originally, called Charles Viola, 324 00:17:33,136 --> 00:17:35,216 -Okay. -who had developed these characters, 325 00:17:35,305 --> 00:17:37,385 brought them to Marvel, and said, 326 00:17:37,474 --> 00:17:40,194 "Look, you know, we could do this the other way around. 327 00:17:40,268 --> 00:17:44,058 Rather than you have a toy line that you make a comic book out of, 328 00:17:44,147 --> 00:17:47,897 we make a comic book set up to be a toy line." 329 00:17:47,984 --> 00:17:50,744 So he and Bob Budiansky, more or less, 330 00:17:50,820 --> 00:17:55,200 developed this together, the characters, the setup. 331 00:17:55,283 --> 00:17:56,623 Then they just needed a writer, 332 00:17:56,701 --> 00:18:00,461 so he just came to me and said would I jump in at that point. 333 00:18:00,538 --> 00:18:04,378 So, are you getting just raw designs and character names? 334 00:18:04,459 --> 00:18:08,459 Like, how much do you have to go off of when you're creating this series? 335 00:18:08,713 --> 00:18:12,633 I had a, sort of, loose bible, I suppose, for the series, 336 00:18:12,717 --> 00:18:17,717 you know, the general setup, the character designs, some of the names. 337 00:18:17,806 --> 00:18:20,516 The heavy lifting was done by Bob and Charles. 338 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:25,190 So, do you have any connection to them, or this was more of a-- just another job? 339 00:18:25,271 --> 00:18:28,401 It was, kind of, another thing on my desk, you know, 340 00:18:28,483 --> 00:18:31,863 and honestly, if it had taken off, I'd have been very happy, 341 00:18:31,945 --> 00:18:37,905 but once it kinda didn't, it just sort of was maybe wrong time, wrong place for it. 342 00:18:37,992 --> 00:18:41,162 I think they were quite unique, in a way, for their time. 343 00:18:41,246 --> 00:18:45,996 You know, it was very eco-themed, which wasn't widespread at the time. 344 00:18:46,084 --> 00:18:49,504 [stammers] It had tapped into something quite early I think, 345 00:18:49,587 --> 00:18:52,967 and concerns about animal welfare, 346 00:18:53,049 --> 00:18:55,929 even though, strangely, what you've got is a set of animals 347 00:18:56,011 --> 00:18:59,931 who have effectively been experimented on and augmented, 348 00:19:00,015 --> 00:19:02,725 but, you know, if we skip over that little bit. 349 00:19:02,809 --> 00:19:05,979 -[chuckles] -But I think it felt properly all ages, 350 00:19:06,062 --> 00:19:11,112 which I think was part of the great thing about it and part of the problem. 351 00:19:12,318 --> 00:19:15,238 [Scheer] So it's a comic book that was made to be a toy, 352 00:19:15,321 --> 00:19:21,041 but it wasn't adult enough for adults and not kid enough for kids. 353 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:25,829 I needed to find out what the creator truly was inspired by, 354 00:19:25,915 --> 00:19:27,915 which is why I had to meet Charles Viola. 355 00:19:28,001 --> 00:19:29,131 Now he lived in Iowa, 356 00:19:29,210 --> 00:19:31,960 and since we couldn't afford to fly everyone to Iowa, I guess, 357 00:19:32,047 --> 00:19:34,667 I just rented a place in LA and pretended like it was his house. 358 00:19:34,758 --> 00:19:36,378 You'll never know the difference. 359 00:19:37,510 --> 00:19:40,720 My name is Charlie Viola, and I'm the creator of Brute Force. 360 00:19:41,806 --> 00:19:44,426 -Okay, so I'm talking to you. -Yeah, we're just gonna... 361 00:19:44,517 --> 00:19:45,517 Just you and me. 362 00:19:45,602 --> 00:19:47,102 Where did this idea come from? 363 00:19:47,187 --> 00:19:49,357 Well, animals have always been a part of our society, 364 00:19:49,439 --> 00:19:52,569 but usually you have them pulling a wagon or something like that. 365 00:19:52,650 --> 00:19:55,570 I think in the future, we're gonna be able to communicate with them, 366 00:19:55,653 --> 00:19:58,533 and we're gonna find out they're a lot more intelligent than we thought. 367 00:19:59,491 --> 00:20:02,581 In this case, you can see the dolphin now has become a vehicle. 368 00:20:02,660 --> 00:20:04,160 He's got wheels here. 369 00:20:04,245 --> 00:20:07,665 So, what he can do is, he can retract his arms and legs... 370 00:20:07,749 --> 00:20:09,919 -Oh, wow. -...and work with wheels. 371 00:20:10,001 --> 00:20:12,131 Now some people, when this came out, said, 372 00:20:12,212 --> 00:20:14,962 "That's impossible. You can't have bionic arms and legs," 373 00:20:15,048 --> 00:20:16,258 but actually, it is possible. 374 00:20:17,092 --> 00:20:19,342 Here we got the bear on a trike and on a motorcycle. 375 00:20:19,427 --> 00:20:22,137 -And here he's driving, like, a-- -How many vehicles do these animals have? 376 00:20:22,222 --> 00:20:24,852 You see, these were all experimental. We talked about them in the meetings. 377 00:20:24,933 --> 00:20:27,943 -Here he's on some other motorcycle-- -[Scheer] By the way, this is-- 378 00:20:28,019 --> 00:20:29,649 [Viola] That's with the bear-zooka that he's got there. 379 00:20:29,729 --> 00:20:31,399 [Scheer] I love this bear-zooka. 380 00:20:31,481 --> 00:20:34,321 I've seen circuses where they have bears ride on motorcycles. 381 00:20:34,401 --> 00:20:36,111 -I don't know if you've seen that. So... -Yeah. 382 00:20:36,194 --> 00:20:38,244 -...somehow that stuck in my mind. -Yeah, you're-- 383 00:20:38,321 --> 00:20:40,031 It's almost like making him partly comfortable 384 00:20:40,115 --> 00:20:42,445 because I think it's in their nature a little bit. 385 00:20:43,326 --> 00:20:45,366 -What is this? This is amazing. -If they wanted to know a little bit-- 386 00:20:45,453 --> 00:20:48,003 At the meetings, they wanted to know about their personal life. 387 00:20:48,081 --> 00:20:49,871 So I had the bear in his own home there, 388 00:20:49,958 --> 00:20:52,458 and he's got the refrigerator, and he's got the honey dispenser. 389 00:20:52,544 --> 00:20:54,384 [Scheer] I love that the bear has a home life 390 00:20:54,462 --> 00:20:56,512 where he actually takes off the armor, 391 00:20:57,048 --> 00:21:00,428 and you've made it so he doesn't even have to use his fingers. 392 00:21:00,510 --> 00:21:04,430 He's basically pressing a button to open the fridge door to get honey. 393 00:21:04,514 --> 00:21:05,644 This is amazing. 394 00:21:05,724 --> 00:21:07,064 [Viola] So now we got the lion-- 395 00:21:07,142 --> 00:21:10,232 Talk to me about the headband on the lion. What is the headband doing? 396 00:21:10,311 --> 00:21:14,651 Well, you know, I wanted to have some type of neuroenhancer technology. 397 00:21:14,733 --> 00:21:16,783 Nowadays, they're experimenting with technology 398 00:21:16,860 --> 00:21:20,660 that allow people to operate prosthetics, like people who've lost a limb, 399 00:21:20,739 --> 00:21:22,239 -with their brain waves. -Yeah. Got it. 400 00:21:22,323 --> 00:21:23,583 And you have something-- 401 00:21:23,658 --> 00:21:26,408 They actually install the technology right now, 402 00:21:26,494 --> 00:21:28,874 but they could put it on in a case-- headband, 403 00:21:29,456 --> 00:21:33,076 so that people could use their brain waves to move body parts. 404 00:21:33,168 --> 00:21:35,588 So I was already thinking ahead to that kind of technology. 405 00:21:35,670 --> 00:21:38,550 This is amazing. Charles, you're a toy designer 406 00:21:38,631 --> 00:21:42,301 who is so far down the rabbit hole in science, 407 00:21:42,385 --> 00:21:45,305 you're almost like a modern-day Jules Verne in a way. 408 00:21:45,388 --> 00:21:47,178 This is so ahead of its time. 409 00:21:48,099 --> 00:21:51,019 So I know that you created this, and this is very dear to you. 410 00:21:51,102 --> 00:21:54,272 Would you be okay with, you know, someone, like, 411 00:21:54,356 --> 00:21:57,896 leading the charge of a future Brute Force team? 412 00:21:57,984 --> 00:21:59,534 Oh, sure. I think they'd be great in TV. 413 00:21:59,611 --> 00:22:01,451 I think they're a little ahead of their time, 414 00:22:01,529 --> 00:22:03,989 'cause back then we didn't have the CGI. 415 00:22:04,074 --> 00:22:05,664 Plus, they could use some updates. 416 00:22:05,742 --> 00:22:08,912 [Scheer] This could be the new X-Men or Fantastic Four. 417 00:22:08,995 --> 00:22:11,575 This is incredible. It's gonna be huge. 418 00:22:11,664 --> 00:22:13,834 There was a lot to do, but first, 419 00:22:13,917 --> 00:22:17,707 I needed to walk contemplatively down a nondescript street. 420 00:22:17,796 --> 00:22:20,466 It's a good documentary technique that helps the audience understand 421 00:22:20,548 --> 00:22:23,048 that I'm really wrestling with something very important. 422 00:22:23,134 --> 00:22:25,014 After talking to Charles and seeing his passion, 423 00:22:25,095 --> 00:22:28,805 I realized this was the perfect property for Disney+. 424 00:22:28,890 --> 00:22:30,850 I mean, it had limitless possibilities, 425 00:22:31,393 --> 00:22:35,313 but I needed to see if people were ready to accept an animal superhero team. 426 00:22:35,397 --> 00:22:40,027 Because a Marvel show is nothing without its fans, but where could I go? 427 00:22:40,485 --> 00:22:41,735 -[producer] Hey, Paul. -Yeah. 428 00:22:42,237 --> 00:22:44,107 How about San Diego Comic-Con? 429 00:22:47,075 --> 00:22:50,825 [Scheer] Ah, yes, Comic-Con. What a great idea, Paul. 430 00:22:50,912 --> 00:22:53,292 You really are a natural at documentaries. 431 00:22:53,957 --> 00:22:57,957 So, we went to Comic-Con to secretly focus-test the idea of Brute Force 432 00:22:58,044 --> 00:23:00,554 without telling anyone exactly what it was. 433 00:23:00,630 --> 00:23:03,930 What would you think of an animal superhero team? 434 00:23:04,009 --> 00:23:07,389 -I think that would be great. -We're definitely animal lovers. 435 00:23:07,470 --> 00:23:10,770 We have snakes. We have turtles. We have German shepherds. 436 00:23:10,849 --> 00:23:12,059 -Dogs. -Big dogs, yeah. 437 00:23:12,142 --> 00:23:17,652 I would absolutely love to see a superhero animated series with animals, 100%. 438 00:23:17,731 --> 00:23:20,361 Probably the lion. The lion seems pretty good. 439 00:23:20,442 --> 00:23:24,242 I'd give him the power of the sun 'cause of the way he looks, 440 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,240 'cause the mane will energize him. 441 00:23:27,323 --> 00:23:32,123 I am very partial to kangaroos and would love to see one have superpowers. 442 00:23:32,203 --> 00:23:34,663 I could definitely see kung fu abilities. 443 00:23:34,748 --> 00:23:39,668 I would definitely see boxing, like, a wide range of different fighting styles. 444 00:23:39,753 --> 00:23:42,213 [Scheer] What do you think these animal Avengers would do? 445 00:23:42,297 --> 00:23:43,377 They'd be environmentalists, 446 00:23:43,465 --> 00:23:46,125 so they'd wanna protect the Earth, wanna protect nature, 447 00:23:46,885 --> 00:23:49,295 stop all these people from trying to destroy it. 448 00:23:51,389 --> 00:23:53,389 [Scheer] Comic-Con was a success. 449 00:23:53,475 --> 00:23:57,725 These fans totally got the idea and seemed genuinely excited to see it. 450 00:24:00,148 --> 00:24:03,148 Bringing Brute Force to life was a tall order. 451 00:24:03,234 --> 00:24:06,404 On the surface, a group of cybernetic animal superheroes 452 00:24:06,488 --> 00:24:08,278 could be comical if done wrong. 453 00:24:08,365 --> 00:24:11,525 And I also knew that equipping actual animals with cybernetic implants 454 00:24:11,618 --> 00:24:14,698 was not only immoral but would probably enrage the ASPCA 455 00:24:14,788 --> 00:24:16,748 and shut down production before we even began. 456 00:24:16,831 --> 00:24:20,211 Which left me with one option: animation. 457 00:24:20,293 --> 00:24:23,763 Marvel has this amazingly long history of producing 458 00:24:23,838 --> 00:24:27,968 some of the best animated shows on TV, and they still do to this day. 459 00:24:28,051 --> 00:24:31,301 But for me, this is where I fell in love with Marvel. 460 00:24:31,388 --> 00:24:32,888 I would race home every day from school 461 00:24:32,972 --> 00:24:37,312 and watch all the classic '90s Marvel animated TV shows. 462 00:24:37,394 --> 00:24:39,564 These shows hold a special place in my heart 463 00:24:39,646 --> 00:24:42,646 as they took the fantastical world of Marvel 464 00:24:42,732 --> 00:24:44,612 and grounded them in a real world, 465 00:24:44,693 --> 00:24:47,953 which was something that was very rarely done at the time. 466 00:24:49,614 --> 00:24:51,704 Working in animation is a really collaborative art. 467 00:24:51,783 --> 00:24:54,293 Animators and writers get together to pitch ideas 468 00:24:54,369 --> 00:24:57,619 in the hopes to find the perfect way to embody these characters. 469 00:24:58,164 --> 00:25:02,094 Many times, you go through several stylistic and tonal changes, 470 00:25:02,168 --> 00:25:05,548 and it's a process that I went through with 6 Point Harness, 471 00:25:05,630 --> 00:25:07,470 which is an animation studio in LA. 472 00:25:07,549 --> 00:25:09,049 -Welcome to 6 Point. -Thanks so much. 473 00:25:09,134 --> 00:25:12,644 Here we're getting into that, kinda, '90s throwback feel. 474 00:25:12,721 --> 00:25:14,011 Yeah. 475 00:25:14,097 --> 00:25:17,387 Like the Land Before Time, All Dogs Go to Heaven. 476 00:25:17,475 --> 00:25:19,185 -So classic. -[animator] Yeah, it's classic. 477 00:25:19,269 --> 00:25:21,399 Very cartoony in a way. 478 00:25:21,479 --> 00:25:25,279 -This is almost a little too kiddie. -[animator] Mm. 479 00:25:25,358 --> 00:25:29,568 I want this to be the show that the kids sneak into their parents' room 480 00:25:29,654 --> 00:25:32,994 and they're watching it, and they're like, "What? How did I get to see that?" 481 00:25:33,074 --> 00:25:34,874 That's great. That goes right into our next one, 482 00:25:34,951 --> 00:25:37,701 which is kind of like a band, a musical band. 483 00:25:38,121 --> 00:25:40,461 K-pop, so hot right now. 484 00:25:40,540 --> 00:25:43,500 No, they're not a K-pop band. No, that's not-- 485 00:25:43,585 --> 00:25:45,205 -But K-pop is huge. -I know K-pop is huge. 486 00:25:45,295 --> 00:25:47,705 They're not that. They're never in a band. 487 00:25:47,797 --> 00:25:49,667 There's never been anything about being in a band. 488 00:25:49,758 --> 00:25:52,138 I want it to be action-packed. 489 00:25:52,218 --> 00:25:56,468 I want it to feel a little bit scary but also really accessible. 490 00:25:56,556 --> 00:25:59,556 Maybe something like this. You know? 491 00:25:59,642 --> 00:26:01,692 He's devouring that soldier. 492 00:26:01,770 --> 00:26:05,360 -The soldier has a ripped-off foot? -[animator] Mm-hmm. 493 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,150 They have knives for teeth. 494 00:26:09,277 --> 00:26:12,817 Okay. Well, they don't. The animals don't have knives for teeth. 495 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,580 I'm sad to say this is closer to what I pictured. 496 00:26:16,659 --> 00:26:17,659 Great! 497 00:26:17,744 --> 00:26:20,714 When people think about animation, I want them to think about this show 498 00:26:20,789 --> 00:26:23,379 and be like, "Oh, my God. I can't believe that they did that." 499 00:26:23,458 --> 00:26:24,958 -We could do that. -We'd love that. 500 00:26:25,043 --> 00:26:26,753 So, I wrote down a number. 501 00:26:26,836 --> 00:26:28,626 What can I get for this? 502 00:26:31,466 --> 00:26:34,086 -Uh... like two-- -Two minutes. 503 00:26:35,929 --> 00:26:36,929 -Two? -Two minutes. 504 00:26:37,013 --> 00:26:38,183 -Two minutes? -Yes. 505 00:26:39,015 --> 00:26:41,015 Okay. Yeah, two minutes. Let's do two minutes. 506 00:26:41,101 --> 00:26:42,561 -Two minutes is good. -Yeah, totally. 507 00:26:42,644 --> 00:26:44,814 -Let's do two minutes. -All right, great. Two minutes. 508 00:26:45,772 --> 00:26:47,272 [Scheer] I left that meeting confident 509 00:26:47,357 --> 00:26:50,107 that we'd eventually land on the proper animation style. 510 00:26:50,193 --> 00:26:55,323 But now it was time to focus on story and the way that Marvel tells a story. 511 00:26:55,865 --> 00:26:57,985 Which is why I reach out to Steve Wacker, 512 00:26:58,076 --> 00:27:01,076 who not only was a senior editor at Marvel Comics, 513 00:27:01,162 --> 00:27:04,082 but also was the VP of Marvel Animation. 514 00:27:04,165 --> 00:27:09,415 Under his watch, he guided the voices and styles of dozens of characters, 515 00:27:09,504 --> 00:27:11,924 and I figured Steve would have some very good insight 516 00:27:12,007 --> 00:27:15,387 on what makes something exclusively Marvel. 517 00:27:15,468 --> 00:27:19,388 All right, so there is a ton of Marvel books, 518 00:27:19,472 --> 00:27:22,522 but what are the things that connect it with an audience? 519 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,560 It's a great question. If we knew exactly how to do it, we'd hit it every time. 520 00:27:26,646 --> 00:27:29,936 We've got, at this point, over 8,000 characters, 521 00:27:30,025 --> 00:27:32,275 most of which you've never even heard of. 522 00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:37,030 -I'm talking about Leather Boy. I'm talk-- -Who is Leather Boy? 523 00:27:37,115 --> 00:27:39,985 I don't wanna talk about it. Uh... Street Poet Ray. 524 00:27:40,076 --> 00:27:41,446 That's not a real character. 525 00:27:41,536 --> 00:27:44,326 Street Poet Ray was a comic that we published. 526 00:27:44,414 --> 00:27:47,294 It was the early '90s, when that, sort of, poetry slam thing 527 00:27:47,375 --> 00:27:49,165 -was getting to be big again. -[Scheer laughs] 528 00:27:49,252 --> 00:27:50,422 Is he a superhero? 529 00:27:50,503 --> 00:27:55,883 No, but he has opinions on the state of the world, circa 1990. 530 00:27:55,967 --> 00:27:57,427 [Scheer] I need to get this. 531 00:27:57,510 --> 00:28:00,510 For me, when I was editing comics, 532 00:28:00,597 --> 00:28:02,927 what I would talk to writers about and artists about 533 00:28:03,016 --> 00:28:06,636 is find the character that you can pour yourself into. 534 00:28:06,728 --> 00:28:08,308 -Use that as the starting point. -Right. 535 00:28:08,396 --> 00:28:10,936 The first time I noticed it as a reader was 536 00:28:11,024 --> 00:28:13,944 when Frank Miller came onto Daredevil as the writer, 537 00:28:14,027 --> 00:28:15,897 and slowly Frank took over the book. 538 00:28:15,987 --> 00:28:18,777 His art style was second to none, 539 00:28:18,865 --> 00:28:23,325 and you could see Frank's experiences color the entire book. 540 00:28:23,411 --> 00:28:26,291 So it's almost like you're putting yourself as the character. 541 00:28:26,373 --> 00:28:28,083 -It's a version of acting. -Right. 542 00:28:28,166 --> 00:28:31,496 I guess what I'm wondering is, what makes certain comics work? 543 00:28:31,586 --> 00:28:33,666 I mean, like Spider-Man. 544 00:28:34,255 --> 00:28:38,635 It's been around forever, but what about it connects with people? 545 00:28:39,302 --> 00:28:40,642 [Wacker] It's at the right time. 546 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,640 So it's '62, this comes out, 547 00:28:43,723 --> 00:28:47,693 and it's right at the time teenagers are gonna take over pop culture. 548 00:28:47,769 --> 00:28:50,439 -Stan at the time was around 40. -That's what I'm saying. 549 00:28:50,522 --> 00:28:53,532 You're saying throw yourself into it. You have a 40-year-old man-- 550 00:28:53,608 --> 00:28:58,238 But he found new stories about what it was like to be a teen 551 00:28:58,321 --> 00:29:00,781 at a time when we didn't have teenage superheroes. 552 00:29:00,865 --> 00:29:03,485 All these other big superheroes tended to skew older. 553 00:29:03,576 --> 00:29:04,576 [Scheer] Right. 554 00:29:04,661 --> 00:29:06,161 -All his villains are old. -Right. 555 00:29:06,246 --> 00:29:08,866 There's the Vulture who looks like Larry David with wings. 556 00:29:08,957 --> 00:29:11,457 -[Scheer chuckles] -It's just frustrating that they find out 557 00:29:11,543 --> 00:29:13,883 they're getting beat up on by a 15-year-old. 558 00:29:13,962 --> 00:29:18,132 So it's like finding a little niche that no one's been, kind of, cultivating. 559 00:29:18,216 --> 00:29:21,756 Actually, the essence of everything we do is finding characters that don't exist, 560 00:29:21,845 --> 00:29:23,555 -finding an audience. -Yeah. 561 00:29:23,638 --> 00:29:29,268 You know, this led, 50 years later, to when I worked on Ms. Marvel. 562 00:29:29,352 --> 00:29:33,442 I was speaking with Sana Amanat, who worked at my office, 563 00:29:33,523 --> 00:29:37,443 talking about her experiences as a young Muslim girl in New Jersey 564 00:29:37,527 --> 00:29:40,157 and always having to look at the white superhero 565 00:29:40,238 --> 00:29:42,658 and never having a superhero that looked like her. 566 00:29:42,741 --> 00:29:45,371 I said, "Why don't we do that?" 'Cause there's an audience for it. 567 00:29:45,452 --> 00:29:47,542 There are these young girls all over the world, 568 00:29:47,620 --> 00:29:51,120 and suddenly, we've got a new young hero representing someone else. 569 00:29:51,207 --> 00:29:55,297 In my mind, the Spider-Man DNA runs right through all of Marvel, 570 00:29:55,378 --> 00:29:57,918 right to characters of today, like Ms. Marvel. 571 00:29:58,673 --> 00:30:02,343 We talk about individual characters. What about teams? 572 00:30:02,427 --> 00:30:06,847 Teams seem to be a big part of the Marvel Universe. 573 00:30:07,307 --> 00:30:11,687 To me, the most Marvel way of approaching it is approaching it like a family 574 00:30:11,770 --> 00:30:14,310 'cause that's what Stan and Jack did with Fantastic Four. 575 00:30:14,397 --> 00:30:15,687 They're Marvel's first team. 576 00:30:15,774 --> 00:30:18,494 They're really what launched the modern Marvel Universe. 577 00:30:18,568 --> 00:30:22,488 That family dynamic was also new when Stan and Jack did it. 578 00:30:22,572 --> 00:30:24,912 -[Scheer] Yeah. -People on teams arguing with each other. 579 00:30:24,991 --> 00:30:27,871 With Fantastic Four, the Thing is quitting every third issue. 580 00:30:27,952 --> 00:30:28,912 [Scheer] Right. 581 00:30:28,995 --> 00:30:31,915 [Wacker] Johnny Storm, he's a pain in the ass, lighting everybody on fire. 582 00:30:31,998 --> 00:30:37,168 Sue's very much a 1950s housewife mom trying to keep the peace. 583 00:30:37,253 --> 00:30:38,173 Then you got Reed, 584 00:30:38,254 --> 00:30:40,804 who's a little above it all watching the madness go around him, 585 00:30:40,882 --> 00:30:43,392 and he's so distracted by inventing time machines. 586 00:30:44,135 --> 00:30:46,045 So the reason why I'm bringing you here 587 00:30:46,554 --> 00:30:51,064 is because I'm thinking about rebooting Brute Force. 588 00:30:51,142 --> 00:30:52,142 [chuckles] 589 00:30:52,227 --> 00:30:55,557 But, wait, don't they make sense? I mean, they're family. They're niche. 590 00:30:55,647 --> 00:30:57,397 It's a big problem in the world. 591 00:30:57,482 --> 00:30:59,732 We're having all these ecological disasters, 592 00:30:59,818 --> 00:31:03,448 so they're gonna be fighting that. I mean, what do you think? 593 00:31:03,530 --> 00:31:06,160 Look, I don't think there are any bad characters. 594 00:31:06,241 --> 00:31:10,541 Okay. That's a good thing. Better than Street Poet Ray? 595 00:31:10,620 --> 00:31:13,290 Uh... on par with Street Poet Ray, 596 00:31:13,373 --> 00:31:15,003 -I can fairly say. -Okay, okay. 597 00:31:15,083 --> 00:31:19,673 What might be an interesting story is the way that Brute Force is created. 598 00:31:19,754 --> 00:31:22,014 -They are suddenly given intelligence... -Right. 599 00:31:22,090 --> 00:31:24,050 ...and it happens relatively quickly. 600 00:31:24,134 --> 00:31:26,684 There's a lot of story space there to explore. 601 00:31:26,761 --> 00:31:30,641 That feels like a struggle that we all have universally, 602 00:31:30,724 --> 00:31:33,894 to try to figure out what our humanity is. What does it mean to be human? 603 00:31:33,977 --> 00:31:35,807 What is it like to suddenly have consciousness? 604 00:31:35,895 --> 00:31:37,685 -Right. -And I think there's something in there 605 00:31:37,772 --> 00:31:40,362 that's kind of rich, and I know we're talking about this for laughs, 606 00:31:40,442 --> 00:31:42,902 -but now I'm into this a little. -No! I love this. 607 00:31:42,986 --> 00:31:45,946 It's, kind of, becoming like this idea of what Spider-Man was. 608 00:31:46,031 --> 00:31:48,581 -Like, you know, it's a new iPhone. -Slow down. 609 00:31:50,243 --> 00:31:52,543 I mean, I think you're right. This is the new Spider-Man. 610 00:31:52,620 --> 00:31:55,370 This is gonna launch Marvel for the next 80 years, right? 611 00:31:55,457 --> 00:31:57,667 I don't want you to say that I'm right about that. 612 00:31:57,751 --> 00:31:59,251 Yeah. Yeah. 613 00:31:59,336 --> 00:32:00,746 But there is something there. 614 00:32:00,837 --> 00:32:03,797 Yeah, as you're talking, I work closely with Marvel Animation 615 00:32:03,882 --> 00:32:07,342 on shows like Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy. 616 00:32:07,427 --> 00:32:10,307 I could see a version of this in that world a little bit. 617 00:32:10,388 --> 00:32:13,558 So, you'd green light it if it came to you across your desk? 618 00:32:14,017 --> 00:32:15,227 You have it on tape now. 619 00:32:17,062 --> 00:32:19,442 [Scheer] I needed to find these characters' humanity. 620 00:32:19,522 --> 00:32:21,482 And speaking of these characters, 621 00:32:21,566 --> 00:32:24,106 I needed to check back in at 6 Point Harness 622 00:32:24,194 --> 00:32:26,204 to see how the designs were coming along. 623 00:32:28,531 --> 00:32:29,951 Hey. What's up? What's going on? 624 00:32:30,033 --> 00:32:32,493 -Oh, just finished these. Check it out. -They look great. 625 00:32:32,577 --> 00:32:34,247 -Yeah, let me... -Here. Hit enter. 626 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:36,330 Huh? 627 00:32:36,414 --> 00:32:41,004 So, they still have knives for teeth? Yeah. Okay. [sighs] 628 00:32:41,086 --> 00:32:42,876 What? Uh... 629 00:32:44,297 --> 00:32:45,587 [Scheer] After a few more notes, 630 00:32:45,674 --> 00:32:48,474 we were able to settle on an animation style that we all loved. 631 00:32:48,551 --> 00:32:50,511 Yeah, see? Much better. 632 00:32:50,595 --> 00:32:54,015 And now it was time for the most important part: casting. 633 00:32:54,099 --> 00:32:57,519 Marvel Animation is known for finding the perfect voice actors 634 00:32:57,602 --> 00:32:59,062 that bring their characters to life. 635 00:32:59,145 --> 00:33:02,515 Oh, and I know firsthand, as you might remember 636 00:33:02,607 --> 00:33:06,187 my star turn as Mysterio in the Ultimate Spider-Man. 637 00:33:06,277 --> 00:33:09,067 Don't you forget who the original Mysterio was, kiddo. 638 00:33:09,531 --> 00:33:12,491 See? I killed it, and then I was killed. 639 00:33:12,575 --> 00:33:14,075 They never asked me back. 640 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,080 I needed to find my cast. 641 00:33:16,162 --> 00:33:18,252 So, I turned to some of my favorite actors 642 00:33:18,331 --> 00:33:21,001 to see if they loved Brute Force as much as I did. 643 00:33:22,460 --> 00:33:23,750 [dolphin trills] 644 00:33:23,837 --> 00:33:25,377 [Scheer] This is, uh, Dr. Eko. 645 00:33:26,464 --> 00:33:28,724 -And that's a dolphin person? -Yes, it's a dolphin. 646 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,760 [Byer chuckles] I love his tail. His tail's protected. He's got feet. 647 00:33:33,596 --> 00:33:35,846 Well, I don't see the doctor part of him. 648 00:33:35,932 --> 00:33:38,442 Usually, doctors are a little bit more intelligent, 649 00:33:38,518 --> 00:33:40,768 a little more regal with how they present themselves. 650 00:33:40,854 --> 00:33:44,694 He's just yelling with Uzis that are aimed in different directions. 651 00:33:44,774 --> 00:33:47,034 -So I don't even what he's shooting at. -Yeah. 652 00:33:47,110 --> 00:33:49,450 The Eko comes from the echolocation, that idea? 653 00:33:49,529 --> 00:33:51,779 -Hey, look. Yeah, you see. And... -Yeah, sure. 654 00:33:51,865 --> 00:33:55,445 I think that maybe the Uzis are gonna cause a problem with the echolocation, 655 00:33:55,535 --> 00:33:57,445 just the noise factor. 656 00:33:57,537 --> 00:33:59,077 Wow. I did not think about that. 657 00:33:59,164 --> 00:34:02,254 If you saw this kind of a creature, 658 00:34:02,792 --> 00:34:05,922 does it feel like an Iron Man to you, or does it feel a bit more frightening? 659 00:34:06,004 --> 00:34:11,054 More frightening. I mean, the scars, the teeth, the bullets. 660 00:34:11,134 --> 00:34:12,804 -[spring pops] -[thumps] 661 00:34:12,886 --> 00:34:15,716 This is Boomer. This is a character you would be great for. 662 00:34:15,805 --> 00:34:18,055 -Honestly, I really love this character. -Yeah. 663 00:34:18,141 --> 00:34:20,441 [Bloom] I like that she has a silencer on her gun. 664 00:34:20,518 --> 00:34:23,728 Yeah, she's more of a silent-but-deadly type of character. 665 00:34:23,813 --> 00:34:26,403 But she's the one you're gonna see coming 'cause she's hopping. 666 00:34:26,483 --> 00:34:30,113 So it's like mechanical hopping. So you're gonna hear that, kung-kung-kung. 667 00:34:30,195 --> 00:34:33,025 Yeah, the hydraulics. I didn't not think about the hydraulics of that. 668 00:34:33,114 --> 00:34:35,334 Do you think that that's odd that she has a silencer? 669 00:34:35,408 --> 00:34:38,448 I don't think of kangaroos as particularly quiet creatures. 670 00:34:38,536 --> 00:34:41,656 -Hmm. -So the idea that she would be stealthy, 671 00:34:41,748 --> 00:34:45,838 -but the gun was the problem... -That... [chuckles] 672 00:34:45,919 --> 00:34:47,959 I think it's a good metaphor for female rage. 673 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,050 Really? Talk to me about this. 674 00:34:50,131 --> 00:34:52,221 -'Cause she has a silencer on her gun. -Yeah. 675 00:34:52,300 --> 00:34:54,300 Because women are taught to be silent and apologize, 676 00:34:54,386 --> 00:34:56,756 but yet, you're gonna hear her coming. 677 00:34:56,846 --> 00:34:59,516 So she's trying to be something she's not, but it's like... 678 00:34:59,599 --> 00:35:01,019 "Girl, you don't need the silencer. 679 00:35:01,101 --> 00:35:05,521 You're a red, half-kangaroo machine. Like, be heard." 680 00:35:05,605 --> 00:35:07,475 -I like Boomer. -Boomer. 681 00:35:07,565 --> 00:35:10,355 I like how that might sound when she would say it 'cause it's, like, Australian. 682 00:35:10,443 --> 00:35:11,573 [both, Australian accent] Boomer. 683 00:35:11,653 --> 00:35:13,533 -Oh, yeah. I like that sound. -Watch out for Boomer. 684 00:35:13,613 --> 00:35:15,373 [normal] That's talking to the international appeal here. 685 00:35:15,448 --> 00:35:16,988 -You have an Australian... -[normal] Huge. 686 00:35:17,075 --> 00:35:19,325 But Dr. Eko is, like, based in Miami. 687 00:35:20,578 --> 00:35:22,328 [salsa playing] 688 00:35:22,414 --> 00:35:23,424 This is Lionheart. 689 00:35:23,498 --> 00:35:25,168 [lion roars] 690 00:35:25,250 --> 00:35:26,420 -[Woodward] Quick question. -Yeah. 691 00:35:26,501 --> 00:35:27,751 Um, they're vehicles? 692 00:35:28,586 --> 00:35:30,586 Yeah, a lot of them have vehicle elements. 693 00:35:30,672 --> 00:35:34,092 Each of these animals are part robot, part vehicle. Yeah. 694 00:35:34,175 --> 00:35:36,425 Right. [stammers] So, but you said they're eco-warriors... 695 00:35:36,511 --> 00:35:37,511 Yeah. 696 00:35:37,595 --> 00:35:41,465 -So, are these low-emission... vehicles? -This is a good point. 697 00:35:41,558 --> 00:35:42,888 I'm gonna have to get back to you on it. 698 00:35:42,976 --> 00:35:44,686 -I think a lot of them are plug-ins. -Okay. 699 00:35:44,769 --> 00:35:47,149 -So he also turns invisible, just FYI. -Oh, my God. 700 00:35:47,230 --> 00:35:48,770 Well, that's-- You buried the lede. 701 00:35:48,857 --> 00:35:50,647 A lion that turns invisible? 702 00:35:50,734 --> 00:35:54,864 I'm not seeing the direct correlation there. [chuckles] 703 00:35:54,946 --> 00:35:56,606 -'Cause we're all frightened of a lion. -Right. 704 00:35:56,698 --> 00:35:58,908 But what's more frightening than a lion? 705 00:35:58,992 --> 00:36:01,242 -An invisible lion. -Yes. 706 00:36:01,327 --> 00:36:02,997 You see? Now you're kind of, like... 707 00:36:03,079 --> 00:36:04,289 [eagle screeches] 708 00:36:04,372 --> 00:36:08,042 [Scheer] This is Soar. Soar is an American bald eagle. 709 00:36:08,126 --> 00:36:12,456 Why is a eagle American? Why did we decide that the bald eagle was us? 710 00:36:13,214 --> 00:36:16,264 That's a really good point. Maybe what we do is give him a French accent. 711 00:36:16,343 --> 00:36:17,933 Ah, yes! That would be fun. 712 00:36:18,011 --> 00:36:19,681 -And he's revolting against this. -Yes! 713 00:36:19,763 --> 00:36:21,143 That he has been called... 714 00:36:21,222 --> 00:36:23,522 Yes. [French accent] Bonjour, I am Soar. 715 00:36:24,768 --> 00:36:29,058 Here's my question about Soar, though, is that he's a eagle that turns into a jet, 716 00:36:29,147 --> 00:36:32,147 which really doesn't help him 'cause he could already fly. 717 00:36:32,233 --> 00:36:34,533 So he's like, "I'm flying," and then he transforms, 718 00:36:34,611 --> 00:36:36,781 and he's like, "I'm really flying now." 719 00:36:36,863 --> 00:36:38,113 [both laugh] 720 00:36:38,198 --> 00:36:39,118 [bear growls] 721 00:36:39,199 --> 00:36:40,949 [Scheer] This is the real fun character here. 722 00:36:41,034 --> 00:36:43,794 -We just call him Bear. -[Bloom] Bear. I was gonna say. That's... 723 00:36:43,870 --> 00:36:45,460 -Yeah. And that's-- -Is that a grill? 724 00:36:45,538 --> 00:36:47,708 -Um, yeah. It says-- -So he has a bear grill? 725 00:36:47,957 --> 00:36:51,207 Yeah, that is a bear grill. Yeah, that is a pretty-- [laughs] 726 00:36:51,294 --> 00:36:55,134 Okay. I wanna be him. First of all, he's fierce. He is stro-- 727 00:36:55,215 --> 00:36:56,335 -Obviously he's strong... -Yeah. 728 00:36:56,424 --> 00:37:00,474 ...but with a sensitivity and a sexuality that I'm drawn to. 729 00:37:00,553 --> 00:37:02,723 Do you think this is scarier than a normal bear? 730 00:37:02,806 --> 00:37:06,016 It might make me laugh upon first sight 731 00:37:06,101 --> 00:37:08,651 because it looks like he just ballooned out so big 732 00:37:08,728 --> 00:37:10,728 that his clothes got too small. 733 00:37:10,814 --> 00:37:11,824 [both laughing] 734 00:37:11,898 --> 00:37:12,898 With all due respect. 735 00:37:12,982 --> 00:37:15,032 He seems to be missing armor in some very crucial spots. 736 00:37:15,110 --> 00:37:16,110 Little bit, right? 737 00:37:16,194 --> 00:37:18,784 I'm like, "Oh, here comes this bear in a tank top. 738 00:37:18,863 --> 00:37:20,783 I'm gonna shoot him in the belly." 739 00:37:20,865 --> 00:37:23,155 But what is the power gauge on his tummy? 740 00:37:23,243 --> 00:37:25,453 -That? -Is that, like, how full he is? 741 00:37:25,537 --> 00:37:27,247 Is it a battery indicator? 742 00:37:27,330 --> 00:37:29,170 I have to talk to our animators about that. 743 00:37:29,249 --> 00:37:31,629 -Maybe, like-- Yeah. -Here's my pitch. 744 00:37:31,710 --> 00:37:34,250 First of all, I would reverse the colors to green, yellow, red. 745 00:37:34,337 --> 00:37:35,837 -Right. -It starts green and then, 746 00:37:35,922 --> 00:37:39,052 as soon as it fills up-- If he gets to X, trouble. You're in trouble. 747 00:37:39,134 --> 00:37:40,514 -Right. Yeah. -'Cause that's full power. 748 00:37:40,593 --> 00:37:43,763 Yeah, 'cause green is traditionally the go symbol. Yellow is, like-- 749 00:37:43,847 --> 00:37:46,217 -But I like it green being safe. -That's what I like. 750 00:37:46,307 --> 00:37:48,977 When you get to red, when you get to a big red X, watch out. 751 00:37:49,060 --> 00:37:50,270 -Watch out. -Bear is going off. 752 00:37:50,353 --> 00:37:53,523 The design could be softened a little bit. 753 00:37:53,606 --> 00:37:55,106 You want to relate to this guy. 754 00:37:55,191 --> 00:37:59,031 But we wanna make it edgy for the kids. We want this to be from six to 60. 755 00:38:00,238 --> 00:38:02,278 -Years old? -Yeah. That's the audience. 756 00:38:03,992 --> 00:38:06,542 -From six to 60 years old? -Like Frozen. 757 00:38:06,619 --> 00:38:09,209 [both chuckle] 758 00:38:09,289 --> 00:38:12,539 By the way, the merch on this stuff is gonna be through the roof. 759 00:38:12,625 --> 00:38:14,915 I'm so happy that you brought that up. 760 00:38:15,003 --> 00:38:16,713 That's-- Yes, you-- We're right on the same page. 761 00:38:16,796 --> 00:38:21,046 Dr. Eko, dolphin head, body armor, double Uzi. 762 00:38:21,134 --> 00:38:23,644 -It's gonna be sold out. -It writes-- It Halloweens itself. 763 00:38:25,597 --> 00:38:27,767 [Scheer] It was great getting all this fearless feedback, 764 00:38:27,849 --> 00:38:30,479 and now it was time for me to pick my cast. 765 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:31,560 [Producer] Paul. 766 00:38:32,687 --> 00:38:34,437 We can only hire non-union actors. 767 00:38:35,190 --> 00:38:38,030 [scoffs] I wish you would've told me this before I had all my auditions. 768 00:38:38,693 --> 00:38:39,783 Thanks a lot. 769 00:38:39,861 --> 00:38:43,321 And stop interrupting my voice-over. I'm trying to make a documentary here. 770 00:38:44,074 --> 00:38:45,084 [sighs] 771 00:38:47,118 --> 00:38:48,908 If I couldn't hire Jon Hamm, 772 00:38:48,995 --> 00:38:52,165 I could at least steal his idea and make it my own. 773 00:38:52,248 --> 00:38:57,248 Brute Force was prime for a toy line. And who does toys better than Marvel? 774 00:38:57,337 --> 00:38:59,377 When it comes to creating lifelike action figures 775 00:38:59,464 --> 00:39:01,724 to amazing costumes to perfect play sets, 776 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,800 Marvel toys makes you feel a part of the action. 777 00:39:05,887 --> 00:39:10,227 From ages six to 60, there is a toy for everyone. 778 00:39:10,308 --> 00:39:14,228 I can picture kids under the Christmas tree holding Dr. Eko and Soar. 779 00:39:14,896 --> 00:39:17,766 It would be like my Christmas but with actual toys, 780 00:39:17,857 --> 00:39:20,527 not just frozen meat dressed as toys. 781 00:39:20,610 --> 00:39:21,990 My parents were not well. 782 00:39:22,070 --> 00:39:26,490 Anyway. This was the last step in developing the perfect Disney+ show. 783 00:39:26,950 --> 00:39:29,290 If Brute Force was gonna be a contender, 784 00:39:29,369 --> 00:39:33,869 I need to sit with one of the minds behind Marvel's toy design, Jesse Falcon. 785 00:39:34,749 --> 00:39:38,089 If we're gonna design toys for Brute Force, 786 00:39:38,169 --> 00:39:40,589 what do you think the goal would be? 787 00:39:40,797 --> 00:39:43,967 I think there are three major segments that we could talk about. 788 00:39:44,050 --> 00:39:47,890 There's role-play, where you can put on elements of the characters 789 00:39:47,971 --> 00:39:49,391 and reenact those parts. 790 00:39:49,472 --> 00:39:50,722 There's action figure play. 791 00:39:50,807 --> 00:39:53,517 There's vehicle play. And, of course, there's masks. 792 00:39:53,601 --> 00:39:56,901 Talk to me about role-play toys. What are some examples of role-play toys? 793 00:39:56,980 --> 00:39:58,400 Great. So I got two great ones here. 794 00:39:58,481 --> 00:39:59,901 This is a deep cut, 795 00:39:59,983 --> 00:40:02,243 -the Hulk hands from 2003. -Oh, wow. 796 00:40:02,318 --> 00:40:03,698 -Love this. -Made of foam. 797 00:40:03,778 --> 00:40:06,738 So, really, kids or collectors can play with those. 798 00:40:06,823 --> 00:40:09,203 Super simple. You put it in and you grab it and uh... 799 00:40:09,284 --> 00:40:10,914 -Boom! You-- -Boom! You're off to the races. 800 00:40:10,994 --> 00:40:12,954 -Love it. -This one's brand-new. 801 00:40:13,038 --> 00:40:14,288 This is from Avengers: Endgame. 802 00:40:14,372 --> 00:40:16,882 This is the Nano Gauntlet, the sized-up one. 803 00:40:17,625 --> 00:40:19,125 Got lights and sounds. 804 00:40:20,587 --> 00:40:23,717 So this is-- Basically, you could become the character? 805 00:40:23,798 --> 00:40:27,048 Yeah, you could become the character. You could sit here and read comic books. 806 00:40:27,135 --> 00:40:32,135 So what kinda stuff could we do that could be, like, a tactile thing like this? 807 00:40:32,223 --> 00:40:33,313 A hand or a fist. Yeah. 808 00:40:33,391 --> 00:40:35,441 So you've got a great character that's a bear. 809 00:40:35,518 --> 00:40:37,018 You put a big bear claw on. 810 00:40:37,103 --> 00:40:40,443 It's all covered in mech, and then you'd have pop-off bear claws. 811 00:40:40,523 --> 00:40:42,443 It would come with a log so you could scratch, 812 00:40:42,525 --> 00:40:45,815 and then the kid could give himself a great back scratch, just like bears do. 813 00:40:45,904 --> 00:40:47,914 Are there any toys that we can kinda come up with 814 00:40:47,989 --> 00:40:49,119 that would help the environment? 815 00:40:49,199 --> 00:40:51,659 So the kids are playing, but they're doing something good. 816 00:40:51,743 --> 00:40:56,083 Could we figure out a way to make recycling in the real world with the toys? 817 00:40:56,790 --> 00:40:59,830 [Falcon] The bear with the retractable claws can come with seeds 818 00:40:59,918 --> 00:41:04,008 so that you can claw holes in the ground, and you can fight deforestation. 819 00:41:04,089 --> 00:41:05,719 Right. So you're actually planting seeds 820 00:41:05,799 --> 00:41:07,549 while you're playing out in the back. I love that. 821 00:41:07,634 --> 00:41:11,434 The lion, we could have a very small grinder inside of his mouth. 822 00:41:11,513 --> 00:41:14,683 Once you've torn it out of the packaging, what do you do with this packaging? 823 00:41:14,766 --> 00:41:17,266 You feed it in and grind it into regrind, 824 00:41:17,352 --> 00:41:19,562 and then you can melt that down and create your own toys. 825 00:41:19,646 --> 00:41:22,566 This is amazing. So we're talking about a Brute Force compost bin, 826 00:41:22,649 --> 00:41:25,319 which means that we can make kids buy more toys 827 00:41:25,402 --> 00:41:27,902 -because they wanna compost the packaging. -Correct. 828 00:41:29,489 --> 00:41:32,279 [Scheer] What could we do with our dolphin character, Dr. Eko? 829 00:41:32,742 --> 00:41:35,082 You can do so much with pool inflatables these days. 830 00:41:35,161 --> 00:41:39,001 You can literally recreate that as something that is a life-sized inflata-- 831 00:41:39,082 --> 00:41:41,292 -I'm dead serious. -So you can get in. 832 00:41:41,376 --> 00:41:44,456 Maybe make it a little flat so you could put a drink cozy in the blowhole, 833 00:41:44,546 --> 00:41:47,546 -and a kid can paddle around in the pool. -[laughs] Right. 834 00:41:47,632 --> 00:41:51,182 Do you think that Brute Force has legs in the merchandising world? 835 00:41:51,261 --> 00:41:53,391 I really think this is a cool concept. 836 00:41:55,890 --> 00:41:58,980 [Scheer] Developing Brute Force has been an amazing journey. 837 00:41:59,060 --> 00:42:02,560 Before I was ready to go back to Disney+, I needed to do one more thing... 838 00:42:03,064 --> 00:42:04,654 have a flashback montage. 839 00:42:05,191 --> 00:42:08,571 This is where I just visually remember everything I learned. 840 00:42:08,653 --> 00:42:11,873 Things like, "Anything can be cool in the right hands, 841 00:42:11,948 --> 00:42:14,328 and that while at first glance unbelievable, 842 00:42:14,409 --> 00:42:16,489 that doesn't mean impossible." 843 00:42:16,578 --> 00:42:17,998 And I also remember this guy. 844 00:42:18,079 --> 00:42:19,999 I'm still trying to figure out what character he is. 845 00:42:20,081 --> 00:42:22,131 I think it's the Spider-Verse. 846 00:42:22,208 --> 00:42:24,708 I also remember some of the sad times. 847 00:42:25,837 --> 00:42:28,757 But I got through it because I realized at the end of the day, 848 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,010 this isn't about creating great toys. 849 00:42:31,092 --> 00:42:36,062 It's about creating great characters, characters who are full of humanity, 850 00:42:36,139 --> 00:42:40,769 and I knew this had every element of what Disney+ and Marvel were looking for. 851 00:42:41,311 --> 00:42:43,521 Whoo! Now that this montage is over, 852 00:42:43,605 --> 00:42:45,395 I feel like I'm ready to go back in and pitch. 853 00:42:45,482 --> 00:42:47,032 Let's do this! 854 00:42:47,609 --> 00:42:51,859 Thank you so much for having me back. I brought Steve with me here. 855 00:42:51,946 --> 00:42:53,566 -Hi, Steve. -Pleasure to see everybody. 856 00:42:53,656 --> 00:42:54,696 Nice to see you. 857 00:42:54,783 --> 00:42:59,833 My job is to find the projects that resonate both with me personally 858 00:42:59,913 --> 00:43:02,543 and that I think tells the Marvel story the best. 859 00:43:03,208 --> 00:43:09,088 When you can't find those, you turn to projects outside the box. 860 00:43:09,631 --> 00:43:12,551 And that's when I turned to Paul Shore. 861 00:43:12,967 --> 00:43:14,967 -It's, uh, Scheer. -That's right. 862 00:43:15,053 --> 00:43:18,603 And what I'm excited about is for him to talk to you 863 00:43:18,682 --> 00:43:20,602 about the things that he's about to say. 864 00:43:21,184 --> 00:43:24,774 -Thank you for that... that introduction. -My pleasure. 865 00:43:24,854 --> 00:43:26,944 It's the least you could do, literally. 866 00:43:27,023 --> 00:43:30,323 We are back, and I really took your advice. 867 00:43:30,402 --> 00:43:35,532 I thought about Marvel characters and what has, kind of, been untapped. 868 00:43:35,615 --> 00:43:37,025 I believe I found a property, 869 00:43:37,117 --> 00:43:38,947 and I know Steve's excited about this property, that-- 870 00:43:39,035 --> 00:43:41,905 -Well... -Well, you said you were excited about it. 871 00:43:41,996 --> 00:43:44,416 Well, I said, "Okay, let's talk about it." 872 00:43:44,499 --> 00:43:45,999 He essentially green lit it. 873 00:43:46,084 --> 00:43:48,254 -He said, "I would green light this." -I didn't green light it. 874 00:43:48,336 --> 00:43:51,126 Well, I have that on tape, so I could just play it for them. I gue-- 875 00:43:51,214 --> 00:43:53,724 Uh, anyway, let's take a look. 876 00:43:58,388 --> 00:44:01,848 I'd like to introduce you to Brute Force. 877 00:44:03,018 --> 00:44:05,268 [woman on PA] Sea Land is now closed. 878 00:44:11,317 --> 00:44:12,567 Feeding time. 879 00:44:13,570 --> 00:44:16,240 Whoops! What's the matter, stupid? 880 00:44:16,322 --> 00:44:18,782 You can't get out of the cage to get your food? 881 00:44:18,867 --> 00:44:21,697 [spits] Chew on this. [laughs] 882 00:44:21,786 --> 00:44:25,076 Let's go mess with the turtles next. They're so stupid. 883 00:44:25,165 --> 00:44:28,915 -Yeah, them and their stupid shell-- -Larry? 884 00:44:29,002 --> 00:44:31,842 -[growling] -No! The stories are true! 885 00:44:31,921 --> 00:44:35,261 -Look, man, I was only following orders. -[Dr. Eko] We will not be ignored. 886 00:44:35,342 --> 00:44:37,092 [zookeeper screams] 887 00:44:37,886 --> 00:44:41,306 Destruction, assault and dolphin theft. 888 00:44:41,389 --> 00:44:42,469 [spits, groans] 889 00:44:42,557 --> 00:44:44,427 What type of person would do such a thing? 890 00:44:44,517 --> 00:44:45,807 Not a person. 891 00:44:45,894 --> 00:44:50,444 Meet Brute Force, a group of genetically engineered animal vigilantes 892 00:44:50,523 --> 00:44:53,943 who use any means necessary to achieve their eco-agenda. 893 00:44:54,611 --> 00:44:55,611 I guess. 894 00:44:55,695 --> 00:44:59,235 Animals that fight for the rights of other animals? 895 00:44:59,324 --> 00:45:00,584 You gotta be kidding me. 896 00:45:00,658 --> 00:45:02,328 Oh, they're no joke, 897 00:45:02,410 --> 00:45:05,750 and if they have it their way, we'll soon be an extinct species. 898 00:45:05,830 --> 00:45:08,330 Boomer. Kangaroo and martial artist. 899 00:45:08,416 --> 00:45:13,046 By the time you hear her hop... you'll be stomped dead. 900 00:45:13,129 --> 00:45:14,799 A kung fu kangaroo? 901 00:45:14,881 --> 00:45:17,881 [female detective] Soar. An eagle that can go Mach 3. 902 00:45:17,967 --> 00:45:21,047 When he drops something from the sky, you'd better watch out. 903 00:45:21,554 --> 00:45:24,524 This is what he did to a local circus that came to town. 904 00:45:24,599 --> 00:45:27,059 Oof! Was not expecting that. 905 00:45:27,143 --> 00:45:28,273 Oh, it gets worse. 906 00:45:28,353 --> 00:45:31,693 Lionheart. He's a lion and a motorcycle, 907 00:45:31,773 --> 00:45:34,943 claws and teeth bonded with an adamantium vibranium mix. 908 00:45:35,026 --> 00:45:37,896 There's not a substance in the known universe he can't tear through. 909 00:45:37,987 --> 00:45:42,077 -And this kitty can turn invisible. -[grunts, screams] 910 00:45:42,158 --> 00:45:43,988 All right. Well, that seems pretty cool. 911 00:45:44,077 --> 00:45:47,957 Dr. Eko. He's a dolphin scientist that can walk on land... 912 00:45:49,124 --> 00:45:52,254 with a mind that rivals Tony Stark and Professor Xavier. 913 00:45:52,335 --> 00:45:57,835 If you don't do what he wants, he'll blast you with 500 gallons of pure H2O. 914 00:45:58,466 --> 00:46:01,216 That gives a whole new meaning to wet and wild. 915 00:46:01,302 --> 00:46:04,762 And Bear. Know the Hulk? Yeah, well, this guy's stronger. 916 00:46:05,849 --> 00:46:09,189 Only double as dumb and with a bazooka. 917 00:46:09,269 --> 00:46:11,979 More like a bear-zooka. [chuckles] 918 00:46:12,063 --> 00:46:13,823 Yeah, you really come up with them. 919 00:46:13,898 --> 00:46:18,398 Anyway, now you're responsible for finding them and bringing them in alive. 920 00:46:18,486 --> 00:46:20,406 All right, but why me? 921 00:46:20,488 --> 00:46:23,908 Simple. You turn everything into a pun, and it's annoying. 922 00:46:23,992 --> 00:46:27,582 Well, I guess I just found my life's porpoise. 923 00:46:27,662 --> 00:46:29,582 See, that's what I'm talking about. 924 00:46:29,664 --> 00:46:31,464 [man narrating] Brute Force! 925 00:46:35,003 --> 00:46:38,093 There you go. So, what do you think? 926 00:46:39,090 --> 00:46:43,600 Wow, really exciting. I mean, wow, wow. 927 00:46:44,637 --> 00:46:46,137 Interesting. 928 00:46:46,222 --> 00:46:49,022 Have you thought about maybe bringing in Jon Favreau 929 00:46:49,100 --> 00:46:51,980 and having him share some of his vision for this idea? 930 00:46:52,062 --> 00:46:53,062 Um... 931 00:46:54,439 --> 00:46:58,069 -But if Jon Favreau does it, would I-- -That's a great idea. 932 00:46:58,151 --> 00:47:02,031 Well, hold on one second. The-- But would I be involved in it? 933 00:47:02,113 --> 00:47:05,623 -[Wacker] Uh... yeah. -To be discussed. We'll talk about it. 934 00:47:05,700 --> 00:47:08,160 If you can get Jon Favreau, we don't need Paul. 935 00:47:08,953 --> 00:47:12,253 I'm right here. You guys, you need me. Can I be involved in it in some way? 936 00:47:12,332 --> 00:47:14,382 Favreau's the perfect choice for this. 937 00:47:14,459 --> 00:47:16,709 Have you ever thought about making a doc about it? 938 00:47:17,295 --> 00:47:19,045 Yeah, I do have this camera crew. 939 00:47:19,798 --> 00:47:21,128 [Silver] Oh, that's normal. 940 00:47:21,216 --> 00:47:24,546 [Scheer] They're great. I just like to document my life. 941 00:47:24,636 --> 00:47:26,136 [Silver] Yeah. 942 00:47:26,221 --> 00:47:29,101 -So this would be on the show? This pitch? -Right now? 943 00:47:29,766 --> 00:47:31,266 But how would it end? 944 00:47:31,351 --> 00:47:33,941 Think there'd be a climactic ending here, you know? 945 00:47:34,020 --> 00:47:36,360 -Yeah. -Right now it just kind of-- 946 00:47:37,107 --> 00:47:39,897 What could end-- What if Paul fails and then we get Favreau? 947 00:47:40,527 --> 00:47:44,487 The ending would be right now, here, now, and you just roll credits. 948 00:47:46,825 --> 00:47:48,275 Oh, like right now. 949 00:48:11,683 --> 00:48:15,313 -So, who are these guys fighting? -They're fighting, um... 950 00:48:15,395 --> 00:48:17,555 Corporations, probably, are going to be their big thing. 951 00:48:17,647 --> 00:48:19,147 So they're the 99%. 952 00:48:19,232 --> 00:48:22,362 Yeah. They're going in if your company is maybe polluting the atmosphere, 953 00:48:22,444 --> 00:48:24,074 -they're gonna go in. -Oh, I see. 954 00:48:24,154 --> 00:48:26,164 This is the force maybe Greenpeace calls in. 955 00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:27,489 -I got you. -Yeah. 956 00:48:27,574 --> 00:48:30,164 Greenpeace is like, "We need to bump it up a notch." 957 00:48:30,243 --> 00:48:32,413 -His name is Dr. Eko? -He's the smartest of the bunch. 958 00:48:32,495 --> 00:48:33,705 So he has a degree? 959 00:48:34,622 --> 00:48:37,002 Yeah, we don't know if he went to-- 960 00:48:37,083 --> 00:48:38,843 probably an online degree, I would imagine. 961 00:48:38,918 --> 00:48:42,298 Okay, so the name is Boomer. Is it because of Boomerang, kangaroo? 962 00:48:42,380 --> 00:48:43,550 -No. -No? 963 00:48:43,631 --> 00:48:44,881 -No. -Okay. 964 00:48:44,966 --> 00:48:47,046 It's a missed opportunity. [chuckles] 965 00:48:47,135 --> 00:48:48,885 Would this be scary to you? 966 00:48:48,970 --> 00:48:51,390 I think if the kangaroo was riding that motorcycle, 967 00:48:51,473 --> 00:48:53,813 I'd be completely confused and terrified. 968 00:48:53,892 --> 00:48:57,812 -A kangaroo with a sword, just, yeah. -With a sword and two hip guns going. 969 00:48:57,896 --> 00:49:01,606 [Byer] You're making him, so why not give him an outfit that fits? 970 00:49:01,691 --> 00:49:07,071 Yeah, that was an interesting choice that a large part of his body is exposed. 971 00:49:07,155 --> 00:49:09,615 Or I'm into it 'cause it's body positivity. 972 00:49:09,699 --> 00:49:11,279 -Ooh, I like that. Okay, yeah. -You know? 973 00:49:11,368 --> 00:49:14,408 He's a little overweight so he's just like, "I'm gonna show my body." 974 00:49:14,496 --> 00:49:17,246 -I do like showing off a bit of fur. -Right? I like it. 975 00:49:17,332 --> 00:49:19,042 That's a bazooka. 976 00:49:19,125 --> 00:49:21,625 Let's go a different way. I don't think that's a bazooka. 977 00:49:21,711 --> 00:49:24,091 I think that shoots out what's called "the bear growl," 978 00:49:24,172 --> 00:49:25,552 and it's a sonic weapon. 979 00:49:26,341 --> 00:49:28,511 -Tell me more, okay. Yeah. -You know what I'm saying? 980 00:49:28,593 --> 00:49:30,723 -So it shoots out a-- -Just a shock wave of-- 981 00:49:30,804 --> 00:49:34,144 Shock wave of sound. That way there's no blowback on the bicep. 982 00:49:34,224 --> 00:49:35,234 Oh, I like that. 983 00:49:35,308 --> 00:49:37,728 And maybe that's what-- when he gets to X... 984 00:49:37,811 --> 00:49:39,231 -He can shoot out-- -He's ready to go. 985 00:49:39,312 --> 00:49:41,772 -Maybe it's a roar. Like-- [growls] -The big growl. Yeah. [growls] 986 00:49:41,856 --> 00:49:44,726 -[Funches] Did you draw this? -[Scheer] I did not draw this. 987 00:49:44,818 --> 00:49:45,898 If you did I was like, 988 00:49:45,985 --> 00:49:49,405 "I got some questions that we could ask your therapist." 989 00:49:50,448 --> 00:49:52,118 [Bloom] I guess my ultimate no would be 990 00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,580 if they can just rip open someone with their teeth, why are they robots? 991 00:49:55,662 --> 00:49:59,332 What if I told you his teeth were knives? 992 00:50:02,585 --> 00:50:04,665 Actually that solves it. That solves it for me.