1 00:00:11,792 --> 00:00:14,959 ♪ (MYSTICAL MUSIC PLAYS) ♪ 2 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:17,000 (CLAPS) 3 00:00:17,083 --> 00:00:19,834 KEITH RANIERE: ESP is a methodology 4 00:00:19,917 --> 00:00:24,250 for optimizing or enhancing human experience and behavior. 5 00:00:24,458 --> 00:00:26,500 WOMAN: Some of the questions that the coaches asked 6 00:00:26,917 --> 00:00:28,417 were just so spot on. 7 00:00:28,667 --> 00:00:31,834 If you could have or be anything, 8 00:00:32,041 --> 00:00:33,792 what would that feel like? 9 00:00:34,417 --> 00:00:37,041 Raniere proposed this map of how everything worked. 10 00:00:37,458 --> 00:00:40,041 MAN 2: It was a unified theory to explain 11 00:00:40,125 --> 00:00:42,625 why people do what they do and how to change that. 12 00:00:43,083 --> 00:00:46,625 This is a code to understand myself. 13 00:00:47,125 --> 00:00:51,208 WOMAN 2: It was like, holy shit, I can be the ideal version of myself, 14 00:00:51,291 --> 00:00:52,625 to write my own character. 15 00:00:52,709 --> 00:00:54,125 RANIERE: The deeper the commitment, 16 00:00:54,417 --> 00:00:57,291 the better and clearer life becomes. 17 00:00:57,792 --> 00:00:59,083 BONNIE: Hey, can you talk quick? 18 00:00:59,500 --> 00:01:00,625 MAN 2: Bonnie got there first. 19 00:01:01,166 --> 00:01:03,625 BONNIE PIESSE: If I look at those women, they're all not doing well. 20 00:01:03,875 --> 00:01:04,834 MAN 2: It took me longer. 21 00:01:05,250 --> 00:01:07,500 BONNIE: There's a lot of things I'm starting to see 22 00:01:07,583 --> 00:01:09,125 about the organization. 23 00:01:09,709 --> 00:01:10,792 It's not right. 24 00:01:11,625 --> 00:01:13,542 I feel like my life and body was stolen. 25 00:01:14,166 --> 00:01:17,333 I want to have that life. I want to get it back. 26 00:01:29,583 --> 00:01:31,667 ♪ 27 00:01:43,583 --> 00:01:45,375 Mark Vicente: Hmm. 28 00:01:45,458 --> 00:01:47,834 (Bonnie Piesse speaking) 29 00:02:24,041 --> 00:02:25,333 (Piesse sighs heavily) 30 00:02:28,625 --> 00:02:30,333 (voice breaking) 31 00:02:37,041 --> 00:02:39,750 ♪ 32 00:02:44,709 --> 00:02:46,750 ♪ 33 00:02:49,750 --> 00:02:52,000 ♪ Days we were young ♪ 34 00:02:52,083 --> 00:02:57,834 ♪ We took photographs of everything we could see ♪ 35 00:02:57,917 --> 00:03:01,166 ♪ We had to run from it ♪ 36 00:03:01,250 --> 00:03:03,250 ♪ Priest and prophetess ♪ 37 00:03:03,333 --> 00:03:08,125 ♪ We were nothing we would defy ♪ 38 00:03:09,125 --> 00:03:13,250 ♪ Oh, invisible skin ♪ 39 00:03:13,333 --> 00:03:16,583 ♪ Where is the world within ♪ 40 00:03:17,250 --> 00:03:19,375 ♪ Invincible skin ♪ 41 00:03:19,458 --> 00:03:22,375 ♪ It's how we all begin ♪ 42 00:03:34,959 --> 00:03:39,083 Bonnie Piesse: Okay, so I feel wounded right now. 43 00:03:39,166 --> 00:03:42,500 And I've been trying really hard to turn it around and stay positive, 44 00:03:42,583 --> 00:03:45,375 and, you know, trust that, 45 00:03:45,458 --> 00:03:47,417 that good always wins. 46 00:03:47,500 --> 00:03:50,458 That, that light wins over darkness. 47 00:03:51,333 --> 00:03:54,709 But Keith head-fucked us, 48 00:03:54,792 --> 00:03:58,792 the girls that were in that group, specifically, in a way that... 49 00:03:58,875 --> 00:04:01,834 I don't know that everyone got head-fucked like that. 50 00:04:03,041 --> 00:04:06,792 (voice breaking): So... So that's the daily struggle. 51 00:04:16,750 --> 00:04:17,750 Vicente: Huh. 52 00:04:17,834 --> 00:04:21,166 (Piesse speaking) 53 00:04:28,250 --> 00:04:30,166 -Vicente: Well... -Piesse: But, yeah. 54 00:04:41,709 --> 00:04:42,834 Vicente: Hmm. 55 00:05:42,667 --> 00:05:46,000 (group applauding) 56 00:05:46,083 --> 00:05:48,083 All: ♪ Happy birthday, Vanguard ♪ 57 00:05:48,166 --> 00:05:51,709 (indistinct chatter) 58 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:54,709 Piesse: When I first met Keith, 59 00:05:54,792 --> 00:05:57,333 my gut feeling was like... 60 00:05:57,417 --> 00:06:00,834 Ew! You know, something's a bit gross. 61 00:06:00,917 --> 00:06:03,125 He would kiss you on the lips. 62 00:06:04,583 --> 00:06:07,166 That's just kind of what he did. 63 00:06:07,250 --> 00:06:09,417 And everyone else did it, as well. 64 00:06:11,291 --> 00:06:14,792 But at the same time, I had really enjoyed the five-day 65 00:06:14,875 --> 00:06:17,875 and was very moved and he was the creator of that, 66 00:06:17,959 --> 00:06:19,959 and so I need to like, let go of that, 67 00:06:20,041 --> 00:06:21,542 and just see what's right in front of me, 68 00:06:21,625 --> 00:06:23,750 which is a guy who's saying he wants to help me. 69 00:06:23,834 --> 00:06:27,375 If this guy's created all these things that are helping so many people, 70 00:06:27,458 --> 00:06:30,125 like, who cares about the kissing on the lips thing? 71 00:06:40,959 --> 00:06:43,250 (playing gentle piano music) 72 00:06:59,667 --> 00:07:01,166 Keith Raniere: Mm-hmm. 73 00:07:04,875 --> 00:07:08,208 (Piesse singing vocal exercise) 74 00:07:09,166 --> 00:07:10,750 (Raniere plays low note) 75 00:07:10,834 --> 00:07:14,792 (Piesse singing vocal exercise) 76 00:07:25,667 --> 00:07:29,417 Piesse: Keith said to me, you know, you could be in Simply Human, 77 00:07:29,500 --> 00:07:31,542 the singing group of ESP. 78 00:07:31,625 --> 00:07:36,083 That's when I started spending a lot of time with Allison Mack. 79 00:07:36,166 --> 00:07:40,625 Allison saw Keith as like a guru, a spiritual master, 80 00:07:40,709 --> 00:07:43,083 and she was very committed to the mission. 81 00:07:43,166 --> 00:07:46,000 Allison Mack: If we actually understood compassion, 82 00:07:46,083 --> 00:07:47,667 the world would be a much better place. 83 00:07:47,750 --> 00:07:51,500 Like, not even the world. Like .00 percent. 84 00:07:51,583 --> 00:07:54,041 Three percent of the world. If they could just have 85 00:07:54,125 --> 00:07:56,166 this little dose of love, 86 00:07:56,250 --> 00:07:58,000 everything would change. 87 00:07:58,083 --> 00:07:59,500 Everything. 88 00:07:59,583 --> 00:08:00,875 -Everything. -(applause) 89 00:08:00,959 --> 00:08:03,041 Are you ready for promotions? 90 00:08:03,125 --> 00:08:06,041 (crowd cheering) 91 00:08:07,125 --> 00:08:10,625 Our proctors have met various ethical standards 92 00:08:10,709 --> 00:08:13,125 to qualify to enter into 93 00:08:13,208 --> 00:08:15,542 an independent contractor-ship 94 00:08:15,625 --> 00:08:17,291 on one of our career paths. 95 00:08:17,375 --> 00:08:19,500 -You ready? -Yes. 96 00:08:19,583 --> 00:08:21,166 Nancy Salzman: Bonnie Piesse. 97 00:08:21,250 --> 00:08:23,959 (crowd cheering) 98 00:08:25,959 --> 00:08:27,542 Allison Mack. 99 00:08:27,625 --> 00:08:31,959 (crowd cheering, applauding) 100 00:08:32,041 --> 00:08:35,750 Our new one-stripe full proctors. 101 00:08:35,834 --> 00:08:38,375 (crowd applauding) 102 00:08:42,333 --> 00:08:44,333 Piesse: I was amazed by the EM tech. 103 00:08:44,417 --> 00:08:45,834 (thwacks) 104 00:08:45,917 --> 00:08:47,375 -Ta-da! (chuckles) -Man: Yeah! 105 00:08:47,458 --> 00:08:49,375 Yay! (laughs) Thank you. 106 00:08:49,458 --> 00:08:50,750 -(thwacks) -Ow! 107 00:08:50,834 --> 00:08:52,709 Piesse: Where you break a Pavlovian link 108 00:08:52,792 --> 00:08:55,750 to help a person overcome a limiting belief. 109 00:08:55,834 --> 00:08:59,667 And I wanted to do that right away. 110 00:08:59,750 --> 00:09:02,834 But then you're told that you need to wait till you're a two-stripe coach 111 00:09:02,917 --> 00:09:05,458 to even start learning the tech. 112 00:09:05,542 --> 00:09:09,500 Then you had to go out and practice. 113 00:09:09,583 --> 00:09:12,834 And so I, I practiced two and a half years. 114 00:09:12,917 --> 00:09:16,625 Like, 1,500 EMs to get to two stripe. 115 00:09:16,709 --> 00:09:19,000 I was told that I could earn money 116 00:09:19,083 --> 00:09:20,709 by the time I got to EM one. 117 00:09:20,792 --> 00:09:22,333 And by the time I got there, they said, 118 00:09:22,417 --> 00:09:24,208 "Oh, no, we've changed the standards." 119 00:09:24,291 --> 00:09:28,291 Now you have to pass, like, we're thinking, EM five. 120 00:09:28,375 --> 00:09:31,375 Financially, I was going deeper into debt. 121 00:09:31,458 --> 00:09:34,083 I was kind of just getting by 122 00:09:34,166 --> 00:09:35,875 going to "Star Wars" conventions, 123 00:09:35,959 --> 00:09:37,834 going and playing shows at colleges. 124 00:09:37,917 --> 00:09:40,166 -Thank you so much! -(audience applauding) 125 00:09:40,250 --> 00:09:41,667 It wasn't working. 126 00:09:41,750 --> 00:09:43,709 And Keith kept saying to us, 127 00:09:43,792 --> 00:09:46,417 "Give it a few months and you guys will be earning great money." 128 00:09:46,500 --> 00:09:49,166 But instead, it felt like once I got to proctor, 129 00:09:49,250 --> 00:09:52,250 suddenly I was more obligated to give for free. 130 00:09:52,333 --> 00:09:55,250 And so you're strung along, practicing, practicing, practicing. 131 00:09:55,333 --> 00:10:00,250 Then Keith invited some of us into development teams. 132 00:10:00,333 --> 00:10:04,750 And that's when the workload started to get heavier and heavier. 133 00:10:04,834 --> 00:10:07,250 A typical day during that time would be 134 00:10:07,333 --> 00:10:09,125 -up at five... -(alarm beeping) 135 00:10:09,208 --> 00:10:11,542 shove some breakfast in my body, 136 00:10:11,625 --> 00:10:15,125 run a yoga class, get feedback from Keith, 137 00:10:15,208 --> 00:10:17,667 coach intensives, go and give free EMs. 138 00:10:17,750 --> 00:10:21,458 As a facilitator, you couldn't really get up and even use the bathroom. 139 00:10:21,542 --> 00:10:22,959 I wouldn't have a lunch break. 140 00:10:23,041 --> 00:10:25,333 I would eat on the way in the car. 141 00:10:25,417 --> 00:10:28,125 Meetings, meetings, meetings. I was still trying to uphold 142 00:10:28,208 --> 00:10:29,750 my obligation to being a proctor. 143 00:10:29,834 --> 00:10:32,625 And then drive to Simply Human practice. 144 00:10:32,709 --> 00:10:37,375 -(singing vocal warm-up) -(playing piano) 145 00:10:37,458 --> 00:10:39,792 And then I'd be on the phone practicing EMs 146 00:10:39,875 --> 00:10:41,625 until two or three. 147 00:10:41,709 --> 00:10:44,625 -(alarm buzzing) -Up at five. 148 00:10:44,709 --> 00:10:47,792 So like, we were all running on no sleep. 149 00:10:47,875 --> 00:10:50,166 And even as you're working 23 hours a day, 150 00:10:50,250 --> 00:10:53,208 you're getting feedback of like, "Why aren't you doing more?" 151 00:10:53,291 --> 00:10:56,000 What is comfort? Think about it for a second. 152 00:10:56,083 --> 00:10:57,458 Piesse: It was about productivity, 153 00:10:57,542 --> 00:10:59,333 but it was about pushing through. 154 00:10:59,417 --> 00:11:02,125 Like, we were taught in everything 155 00:11:02,208 --> 00:11:04,417 that to have character you need to, like, 156 00:11:04,500 --> 00:11:06,125 overcome your body feelings. 157 00:11:06,208 --> 00:11:09,625 And you don't need as much rest as you think and, like, it's... 158 00:11:09,709 --> 00:11:11,667 It shows you how strong you are. 159 00:11:11,750 --> 00:11:13,709 Comfort is like an addiction, 160 00:11:13,792 --> 00:11:17,000 and when you find comfort, you try to be more comfortable, 161 00:11:17,083 --> 00:11:18,333 and just everything comfortable 162 00:11:18,417 --> 00:11:20,000 and we don't push our bodies too much, 163 00:11:20,083 --> 00:11:22,291 and comfortable, comfortable, comfortable, right? 164 00:11:22,375 --> 00:11:25,542 The more we indulge in this addiction, 165 00:11:25,625 --> 00:11:27,291 the more we have to lose. 166 00:11:27,375 --> 00:11:29,083 So it feels like tough love. 167 00:11:29,166 --> 00:11:31,000 It feels like you've got these people who care about you, 168 00:11:31,083 --> 00:11:33,166 who are saying, "You need to do this. 169 00:11:33,250 --> 00:11:34,834 "This is all for your own good. 170 00:11:34,917 --> 00:11:36,542 And for the good of the world." 171 00:11:36,625 --> 00:11:40,000 And you're even thankful. You're like, "Thank you for, for pushing me, 172 00:11:40,083 --> 00:11:42,375 and like, trying to help me get through this." 173 00:11:42,458 --> 00:11:45,208 Salzman: So welcome to the world of discomfort. 174 00:11:45,291 --> 00:11:49,125 If you are not uncomfortable, you are not working on anything. 175 00:11:49,208 --> 00:11:52,834 Your life should be a life of discomfort if you want to grow. 176 00:11:52,917 --> 00:11:56,583 If you don't want to grow, hey, sent shit away. Your choice. 177 00:11:59,041 --> 00:12:00,875 Piesse: I found myself, like, 178 00:12:00,959 --> 00:12:04,250 sitting in Clifton Park going, "What are, like-- 179 00:12:04,333 --> 00:12:05,625 "How'd I get here? 180 00:12:07,625 --> 00:12:09,834 This is my life now." 181 00:12:09,917 --> 00:12:11,959 And that didn't feel good. 182 00:12:14,125 --> 00:12:16,000 And I was looking around at all these people 183 00:12:16,083 --> 00:12:17,709 that just didn't seem joyful to me. 184 00:12:17,792 --> 00:12:21,041 And I was like, I feel like everyone's being squished. 185 00:12:21,125 --> 00:12:24,250 And I started to see red flags with Allison. 186 00:12:24,333 --> 00:12:27,500 I noticed that she was getting obsessed with her weight. 187 00:12:27,583 --> 00:12:29,709 Like, it started to feel weird. 188 00:12:29,792 --> 00:12:32,959 And I couldn't really put my finger on it. 189 00:12:33,041 --> 00:12:35,625 But it was just like a feeling that I had. 190 00:12:37,834 --> 00:12:39,834 The coaches didn't really deny intuition, 191 00:12:39,917 --> 00:12:42,458 but they led you to believe that your intuition 192 00:12:42,542 --> 00:12:44,583 was just a feeling, just a viscera, 193 00:12:44,667 --> 00:12:47,250 and that you needed to try to fix it. 194 00:12:47,333 --> 00:12:50,458 Like, if you had a normal emotional reaction to something, 195 00:12:50,542 --> 00:12:53,500 they explained that it was just the world controlling you, 196 00:12:53,583 --> 00:12:56,875 and it was something that you needed to overcome and work through. 197 00:12:59,458 --> 00:13:01,917 Raniere: We want to empower people, 198 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:06,000 particularly the way our will 199 00:13:06,083 --> 00:13:10,458 interfaces with our body, our neurology, our viscera. 200 00:13:10,542 --> 00:13:14,542 And we have these different techniques that help people, 201 00:13:14,625 --> 00:13:16,625 if you will, drive their vehicle better. 202 00:13:16,709 --> 00:13:18,667 Piesse: In exo/eso, we were taught that 203 00:13:18,750 --> 00:13:20,291 just like you can stretch your body, 204 00:13:20,375 --> 00:13:23,583 you can also stretch your emotions and unlock feelings 205 00:13:23,667 --> 00:13:26,125 that are holding back your growth. 206 00:13:26,208 --> 00:13:30,125 They give you exercises where you can literally open up the viscera, 207 00:13:30,208 --> 00:13:33,333 and expand it into, like, joy. 208 00:13:35,792 --> 00:13:39,000 Woman: Find yourself in a comfortable position. 209 00:13:40,125 --> 00:13:42,875 Maybe lay on the ground, and... 210 00:13:42,959 --> 00:13:45,000 just relax your body. 211 00:13:46,333 --> 00:13:51,000 Now transition to the feeling of suffering. 212 00:13:52,208 --> 00:13:54,375 Think back to the last time you suffered. 213 00:13:54,458 --> 00:13:56,500 Just feel that feeling. 214 00:13:56,583 --> 00:13:58,166 (ominous music playing) 215 00:13:58,250 --> 00:13:59,667 Now intensify it. 216 00:13:59,750 --> 00:14:01,834 Bring it up to the most intense 217 00:14:01,917 --> 00:14:04,000 that you can make the suffering. 218 00:14:04,083 --> 00:14:06,542 To 25, up to 50. 219 00:14:06,625 --> 00:14:09,333 Seventy-five. Push a little harder. 220 00:14:09,417 --> 00:14:11,250 All the way up to 100! 221 00:14:11,333 --> 00:14:13,417 One-hundred percent suffering! 222 00:14:13,500 --> 00:14:14,500 Now switch. 223 00:14:14,583 --> 00:14:16,333 (serene music playing) 224 00:14:16,417 --> 00:14:18,583 Bring up this opposite emotion. 225 00:14:18,667 --> 00:14:20,083 What is it for you? 226 00:14:20,166 --> 00:14:21,917 What do you call it? 227 00:14:23,709 --> 00:14:26,000 Now start to intensify that even further. 228 00:14:26,083 --> 00:14:28,458 Bring it all the way up to the 100 of it. 229 00:14:28,542 --> 00:14:30,125 (joyful music playing) 230 00:14:30,208 --> 00:14:33,125 One-hundred percent of the opposite emotion. 231 00:14:33,208 --> 00:14:35,333 What is this? 232 00:14:35,417 --> 00:14:38,542 What do you call it? Have you felt it before? 233 00:14:38,625 --> 00:14:43,041 And now you're going to switch back to suffering. 234 00:14:43,125 --> 00:14:44,834 Go ahead. Switch. 235 00:14:44,917 --> 00:14:46,959 (dark music playing) 236 00:14:47,041 --> 00:14:48,583 Were you able to bring it back up? 237 00:14:48,667 --> 00:14:50,917 And now switch. 238 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,792 How do you feel now that you've stretched, 239 00:14:53,875 --> 00:14:57,500 and explored your internal emotional experience? 240 00:14:57,583 --> 00:14:59,709 (light music playing) 241 00:14:59,792 --> 00:15:01,875 Piesse: And that's great, in a lot of ways. 242 00:15:01,959 --> 00:15:03,709 It feels powerful. 243 00:15:03,792 --> 00:15:05,583 It feels like you can go out 244 00:15:05,667 --> 00:15:07,834 and achieve the things that you want. 245 00:15:07,917 --> 00:15:10,125 And that's in your hands. 246 00:15:12,709 --> 00:15:16,500 But looking back, I can see how that's really misused. 247 00:15:16,583 --> 00:15:19,834 It's a way to get you to ignore your gut feelings. 248 00:15:24,417 --> 00:15:26,083 -(Vicente claps) -(all clap) 249 00:15:26,166 --> 00:15:27,709 Piesse: I had to tread really carefully. 250 00:15:27,792 --> 00:15:30,291 Like I couldn't really say what I thought to Mark. 251 00:15:30,375 --> 00:15:32,083 He was very defensive. 252 00:15:32,166 --> 00:15:35,834 And he'd fight back and say, "You have to stop." 253 00:15:36,917 --> 00:15:39,000 But I couldn't stop. 254 00:15:49,417 --> 00:15:50,625 Vicente: Mm-hmm. 255 00:15:50,709 --> 00:15:53,125 (Piesse speaking) 256 00:16:03,542 --> 00:16:05,208 Vicente: Mm-hmm. 257 00:16:14,333 --> 00:16:16,500 Piesse: Keith used to teach some of us that 258 00:16:16,583 --> 00:16:18,375 on the path to enlightenment, 259 00:16:18,458 --> 00:16:20,917 you'd reach this barren wasteland. 260 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,667 Like, you reach a space of nothing 261 00:16:23,750 --> 00:16:26,375 before you find this ultimate joy. 262 00:16:26,458 --> 00:16:30,125 Raniere: Joy feels like your, your cells are gonna burst apart. 263 00:16:30,208 --> 00:16:31,667 As a matter of fact, 264 00:16:31,750 --> 00:16:34,542 the more pain we feel, the more we feel, 265 00:16:34,625 --> 00:16:37,500 uh, alive in a body. 266 00:16:37,583 --> 00:16:40,166 My body was starting to fall apart. 267 00:16:40,250 --> 00:16:42,291 (alarm beeping) 268 00:16:42,375 --> 00:16:45,041 And I was having blood sugar crashes. 269 00:16:45,125 --> 00:16:50,041 (vocal warm-up warping, distorting) 270 00:16:50,125 --> 00:16:52,041 And I felt like I couldn't breathe 271 00:16:52,125 --> 00:16:54,208 when I was in the classrooms. 272 00:16:55,417 --> 00:16:58,583 And then Mark encouraged me to talk to Keith. 273 00:17:07,083 --> 00:17:08,875 -Piesse: Yep. -Raniere: Well... 274 00:17:12,291 --> 00:17:14,417 -Piesse: Um-hmm. -(Raniere speaking) 275 00:17:32,542 --> 00:17:34,125 -Raniere: You know? -Piesse: Mm-hmm. 276 00:17:34,208 --> 00:17:37,667 (Raniere speaking) 277 00:17:47,208 --> 00:17:49,750 -Piesse: Right. -(Raniere speaking) 278 00:17:53,875 --> 00:17:55,125 Piesse: And it just... 279 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,583 (Piesse sobbing) 280 00:18:02,250 --> 00:18:04,000 -Piesse: No. -(Raniere speaking) 281 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,667 Piesse: Usually, I had just obeyed. 282 00:18:45,750 --> 00:18:49,166 But at that point, my intuition was, like, screaming at me. 283 00:18:49,250 --> 00:18:51,875 It was like, "You have to get out." 284 00:18:53,208 --> 00:18:56,375 ♪ 285 00:18:56,458 --> 00:18:59,625 Before I left, Allison invited me for a walk. 286 00:18:59,709 --> 00:19:01,291 She was kind of at her skinniest. 287 00:19:01,375 --> 00:19:04,291 She looked like her back bones were sticking out. 288 00:19:04,375 --> 00:19:06,834 But I confronted her and I said, "I think you're sick. 289 00:19:07,667 --> 00:19:09,125 "You're not eating. 290 00:19:09,208 --> 00:19:11,291 "Like, there's a problem, and you need to address it, 291 00:19:11,375 --> 00:19:12,625 and start eating." 292 00:19:12,709 --> 00:19:16,375 And she said, "Well, Keith is measuring my calories. 293 00:19:16,458 --> 00:19:20,208 And he says as long as I'm having my period, I'm fine." 294 00:19:20,291 --> 00:19:22,458 And then she said that she'd made 295 00:19:22,542 --> 00:19:24,709 a lifetime vow to Keith. 296 00:19:25,375 --> 00:19:27,625 And I think she said it was 297 00:19:27,709 --> 00:19:29,709 a vow of devotion. 298 00:19:29,792 --> 00:19:33,625 And she lifted up her shirt and showed me her belly chain. 299 00:19:33,709 --> 00:19:38,166 She said, "And this is to symbolize the vow that I've made." 300 00:19:38,250 --> 00:19:40,709 I certainly didn't understand it. 301 00:19:40,792 --> 00:19:42,583 But I didn't see the darkness in it 302 00:19:42,667 --> 00:19:44,750 that was really there at that point. 303 00:19:47,417 --> 00:19:49,583 (sighs heavily) 304 00:19:51,125 --> 00:19:52,709 (laptop keys clicking) 305 00:19:52,792 --> 00:19:54,458 I reached out to someone who had quit 306 00:19:54,542 --> 00:19:56,250 and who had kind of dropped hints 307 00:19:56,333 --> 00:19:58,917 that they knew what was going on. 308 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,792 And I felt like they knew something that I didn't. 309 00:20:02,458 --> 00:20:03,792 I just said, like, 310 00:20:03,875 --> 00:20:06,000 "Would you trust me enough to tell me what you see? 311 00:20:06,083 --> 00:20:09,291 "'Cause I don't intellectually know what I'm looking at. 312 00:20:09,375 --> 00:20:10,959 I know what I'm feeling." 313 00:20:11,959 --> 00:20:14,834 And she said, "Well, 314 00:20:14,917 --> 00:20:17,250 in a high-control group..." 315 00:20:17,333 --> 00:20:19,166 And I don't even remember the rest of the sentence, 316 00:20:19,250 --> 00:20:22,333 but, like, when I heard high-control group... 317 00:20:24,500 --> 00:20:25,875 It-- I didn't know what it was, 318 00:20:25,959 --> 00:20:28,291 but it just doesn't sound very good. 319 00:20:29,959 --> 00:20:33,417 ♪ 320 00:20:39,041 --> 00:20:41,500 And I actually asked, "Do you think Keith knows? 321 00:20:41,583 --> 00:20:43,083 Like, maybe we need to tell him." 322 00:20:43,166 --> 00:20:47,750 And she was like, "I think it's deliberately designed that way." 323 00:20:47,834 --> 00:20:50,959 And so I called him and I said, you know, "Here's what I see. 324 00:20:51,041 --> 00:20:53,917 "I see that all your companies are... 325 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,417 "built on abuse, obligation, guilt, 326 00:20:56,500 --> 00:20:58,667 and coercion. I can't support it." 327 00:20:59,667 --> 00:21:01,750 And he said... 328 00:21:01,834 --> 00:21:03,667 "Oh, I think, you know, 329 00:21:03,750 --> 00:21:06,458 "there are some issues that you never worked. 330 00:21:07,333 --> 00:21:09,500 "You seem to have a... 331 00:21:09,583 --> 00:21:12,000 a commitment to being a victim." 332 00:21:14,083 --> 00:21:16,542 Salzman: We have a fight or flight mechanism, 333 00:21:16,625 --> 00:21:19,375 which triggers this thing we call fear. 334 00:21:19,458 --> 00:21:20,750 When we're fearful, 335 00:21:20,834 --> 00:21:23,500 when we're making decisions based on fear, 336 00:21:23,583 --> 00:21:24,875 we are at effect. 337 00:21:24,959 --> 00:21:27,583 It's the lowest state of existence. 338 00:21:27,667 --> 00:21:30,750 As you make your decision based on fear, 339 00:21:30,834 --> 00:21:33,458 now it's not your psyche controlling, 340 00:21:33,542 --> 00:21:35,625 it's the body and the world 341 00:21:35,709 --> 00:21:37,458 controlling your psyche. 342 00:21:37,542 --> 00:21:40,250 Now we have joy. What is joy? 343 00:21:40,333 --> 00:21:43,792 And what's the opposite of joy? We talk about joy and misery. 344 00:21:43,875 --> 00:21:47,000 When someone is miserable, 345 00:21:47,083 --> 00:21:48,959 they feel small. 346 00:21:49,041 --> 00:21:51,291 Misery is constrictive. 347 00:21:51,375 --> 00:21:53,417 It's self-oriented, 348 00:21:53,500 --> 00:21:55,333 and it's destructive. 349 00:21:55,417 --> 00:21:57,875 You know, it's involved with suffering, 350 00:21:57,959 --> 00:21:59,959 self-pity, things along those lines, 351 00:22:00,041 --> 00:22:01,750 or malice. 352 00:22:09,375 --> 00:22:10,500 No. 353 00:22:10,583 --> 00:22:12,125 So, I lost my opportunity 354 00:22:12,208 --> 00:22:14,667 to talk to people freely, because... 355 00:22:14,750 --> 00:22:17,875 I think a lot of people saw it as... 356 00:22:17,959 --> 00:22:20,750 dishonorable and weak that I left. 357 00:22:21,542 --> 00:22:23,542 I feel unsure of myself. 358 00:22:23,625 --> 00:22:27,667 We were taught you need to push through. 359 00:22:27,750 --> 00:22:29,792 It shows you how strong you are. 360 00:22:29,875 --> 00:22:32,583 Like, maybe I really am a bad person 361 00:22:32,667 --> 00:22:36,125 for questioning and being disloyal and leaving. 362 00:22:36,208 --> 00:22:38,291 Maybe I'm the problem. 363 00:22:41,834 --> 00:22:43,458 Piesse (on voicemail): Hi. You've called Bonnie. 364 00:22:43,542 --> 00:22:46,000 Leave a message and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. 365 00:22:46,083 --> 00:22:47,458 (voicemail beeps) 366 00:23:16,333 --> 00:23:18,083 (voicemail disconnects) 367 00:23:23,709 --> 00:23:26,208 Piesse: "Finally, I wish to remain on good terms with the company 368 00:23:26,291 --> 00:23:30,125 and have no ethical or unresolved issues with NXIVM and ESP." 369 00:23:44,291 --> 00:23:45,667 Vicente: Mm-hmm. 370 00:23:46,959 --> 00:23:48,709 (Piesse speaking) 371 00:23:51,041 --> 00:23:52,458 Vicente: Yeah. 372 00:24:25,959 --> 00:24:28,083 Piesse: I finally opened up with a friend. 373 00:24:28,166 --> 00:24:31,792 I just, like, let it all out, and told her everything. 374 00:24:31,875 --> 00:24:34,959 And she said, "You know, you might need to break up with him. 375 00:24:35,041 --> 00:24:37,041 You might need to leave him." 376 00:24:39,792 --> 00:24:41,625 It's so sad that a lot of relationships 377 00:24:41,709 --> 00:24:44,041 go from being great in the beginning, 378 00:24:44,125 --> 00:24:46,291 to there's all this resentment and anger, 379 00:24:46,375 --> 00:24:48,583 and they just seem to get kind of more and more bitter. 380 00:24:48,667 --> 00:24:51,667 This helps you resolve those things, so that you can 381 00:24:51,750 --> 00:24:54,208 make your relationship get better. 382 00:24:55,500 --> 00:24:58,208 This marriage is one of the most successful things in my life. 383 00:24:58,291 --> 00:24:59,792 For certain. 384 00:24:59,875 --> 00:25:02,333 I believe we have a really successful relationship, 385 00:25:02,417 --> 00:25:04,041 and it didn't just happen. 386 00:25:32,250 --> 00:25:34,417 (indicator clicking) 387 00:25:36,166 --> 00:25:37,875 (jet engine roaring) 388 00:25:39,125 --> 00:25:40,709 Piesse (on voicemail): Hi. You've called Bonnie. 389 00:25:40,792 --> 00:25:43,625 Leave a message and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. 390 00:26:05,041 --> 00:26:07,959 (Piesse sobbing) 391 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,125 (whimsical piano music playing) 392 00:26:43,041 --> 00:26:44,750 (camera shutters clicking) 393 00:26:44,834 --> 00:26:46,917 So you want to interview me or something, or... ? 394 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,500 Vicente: Light bulbs out. 395 00:26:48,583 --> 00:26:50,750 (man laughing) 396 00:26:50,834 --> 00:26:52,166 Okay, so you're gonna sit there. 397 00:26:52,250 --> 00:26:54,959 -I'll interview you, and film you? -(laughter) 398 00:26:58,250 --> 00:26:59,875 Vicente: So, 399 00:26:59,959 --> 00:27:02,166 um, Keith, in the time that I spent with you, 400 00:27:02,250 --> 00:27:04,250 it's clear that you have a whole series of ideas 401 00:27:04,333 --> 00:27:05,709 that are really amazing. 402 00:27:05,792 --> 00:27:07,458 Well, first of all, 403 00:27:07,542 --> 00:27:09,834 I, I don't know if the ideas are amazing or not. 404 00:27:09,917 --> 00:27:11,542 I... 405 00:27:11,625 --> 00:27:14,750 My assumption is that I, I have some, 406 00:27:14,834 --> 00:27:17,125 uh, relatively strong ideas, 407 00:27:17,208 --> 00:27:19,875 uh, that I communicate pretty well. 408 00:27:21,375 --> 00:27:25,208 (crowd applauding) 409 00:27:29,208 --> 00:27:30,542 My name is Mark Vicente. 410 00:27:30,625 --> 00:27:34,458 I'm a filmmaker from the apartheid era South Africa. 411 00:27:34,542 --> 00:27:37,125 George Lucas had as his mentor Joseph Campbell, 412 00:27:37,208 --> 00:27:39,166 an American mythologist. 413 00:27:39,250 --> 00:27:41,583 I have as my mentor an American scientist 414 00:27:41,667 --> 00:27:43,917 and philosopher by the name of Keith Raniere. 415 00:27:44,709 --> 00:27:46,125 He asked me a question, 416 00:27:46,208 --> 00:27:48,000 and the question he asked me was, 417 00:27:48,083 --> 00:27:49,875 "What is bravery?" 418 00:27:50,917 --> 00:27:52,250 What does that mean? 419 00:27:52,333 --> 00:27:54,375 Well, there's a dictionary definition. 420 00:27:54,458 --> 00:27:58,417 But in the deepest sense, it means to be able to bear pain. 421 00:27:58,500 --> 00:28:00,417 You know, you look at all the people who 422 00:28:00,500 --> 00:28:02,000 are allegedly enlightened. 423 00:28:02,083 --> 00:28:04,583 All the different gurus, whether it be the Buddha, 424 00:28:04,667 --> 00:28:06,333 the Jesus, or, or Gandhi. 425 00:28:06,417 --> 00:28:08,792 They're not just sitting on a pillow. 426 00:28:08,875 --> 00:28:11,000 They're not just being fed grapes 427 00:28:11,083 --> 00:28:12,500 and doing nothing, you know? 428 00:28:12,583 --> 00:28:15,125 And struggle, there's nothing negative about it. 429 00:28:15,208 --> 00:28:17,125 It's the nature of life. 430 00:28:17,208 --> 00:28:20,291 Vicente: When I first met Keith, he said to me, 431 00:28:20,375 --> 00:28:22,083 "You know, it'd be good if you just moved here 432 00:28:22,166 --> 00:28:25,667 so we could, like, have more of these conversations." 433 00:28:25,750 --> 00:28:28,125 Train conductor: Albany, anybody? Albany? 434 00:28:31,125 --> 00:28:32,750 Vicente: It wasn't really in Albany proper. 435 00:28:32,834 --> 00:28:35,583 It was more north in Clifton Park. 436 00:28:36,959 --> 00:28:40,125 Everybody knew, pretty much, where everybody lived. 437 00:28:40,208 --> 00:28:42,792 So you'd always run into people. 438 00:28:42,875 --> 00:28:45,083 And in between, we're just the civilians. 439 00:28:45,166 --> 00:28:47,125 You know, those people who just live there. 440 00:28:48,166 --> 00:28:49,375 And then at night, 441 00:28:49,458 --> 00:28:51,917 you know, you were expected to go to volleyball. 442 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,166 It was like, you know, midnight to 7:00 a.m. 443 00:28:56,458 --> 00:28:59,375 And around, um, 10:30 or 11, 444 00:28:59,458 --> 00:29:01,959 the A team and Keith Raniere would show up. 445 00:29:03,291 --> 00:29:05,792 -(balls bouncing) -(indistinct chatter) 446 00:29:07,417 --> 00:29:09,166 -(thwacks) -(ball bounces) 447 00:29:09,250 --> 00:29:11,291 Help, help. Help! 448 00:29:11,375 --> 00:29:13,458 Producer: Why volleyball? 449 00:29:14,333 --> 00:29:16,834 I didn't understand volleyball at first. 450 00:29:16,917 --> 00:29:19,917 But it became a big social event. 451 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,458 When intensives were going on, 452 00:29:21,542 --> 00:29:24,333 you could have like 50, 60 people in the bleachers, 453 00:29:24,417 --> 00:29:26,583 basically just watching, 454 00:29:26,667 --> 00:29:30,000 EM-ing each other, whispering to each other, talking, 455 00:29:30,083 --> 00:29:31,750 and then in between games, 456 00:29:31,834 --> 00:29:33,750 everybody would gaggle around him, you know, 457 00:29:33,834 --> 00:29:35,709 and ask him question after question after question, 458 00:29:35,792 --> 00:29:37,583 and we'd stand there for like half an hour sometimes, 459 00:29:37,667 --> 00:29:39,959 cooling down while he was talking, 460 00:29:40,041 --> 00:29:42,000 and then we'd play again. 461 00:30:05,709 --> 00:30:07,500 You know, he was like the rock star. 462 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,542 ESP Member: Is that okay? 463 00:30:12,625 --> 00:30:14,542 (laughing) 464 00:30:16,834 --> 00:30:18,125 (camera shutter clicks) 465 00:30:18,208 --> 00:30:19,792 Vicente: And in the end, it was all about 466 00:30:19,875 --> 00:30:21,583 -seeing him. -...tries to handle the ball. 467 00:30:23,792 --> 00:30:26,709 Vicente: That's what everybody said. It's a chance to see him. 468 00:30:27,875 --> 00:30:30,959 I basically try every day to reach him. 469 00:30:31,041 --> 00:30:34,125 We're gonna-- Let's talk about projects. Let's talk about things. 470 00:30:34,208 --> 00:30:36,875 And it's very frustrating, because he won't respond. 471 00:30:36,959 --> 00:30:38,750 And I go to volleyball, like, three times a week, 472 00:30:38,834 --> 00:30:40,709 and I'm talking to him and say, "When are we gonna start? 473 00:30:40,792 --> 00:30:42,917 When are we gonna start? When are we gonna start?" 474 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,917 And it's like he just-- 475 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,291 almost like he forgot. 476 00:30:47,375 --> 00:30:49,333 And so I'm in this state of complete insecurity. 477 00:30:49,417 --> 00:30:51,291 Like, I just uprooted my life. 478 00:30:51,375 --> 00:30:53,083 Six weeks go by. 479 00:30:53,625 --> 00:30:54,875 On my birthday, 480 00:30:54,959 --> 00:30:57,583 seven o'clock in the morning, Keith Raniere calls me. 481 00:30:57,667 --> 00:31:00,375 And he says, "Hey, you wanna take a walk?" I mean... 482 00:31:00,458 --> 00:31:02,333 And I'm like fuckin' ready. 483 00:31:02,417 --> 00:31:03,875 You know, I'm there. 484 00:31:03,959 --> 00:31:05,083 I've got my recorder with me, 485 00:31:05,166 --> 00:31:06,583 I've got a little note pad with me, 486 00:31:06,667 --> 00:31:08,625 and I'm so excited. 487 00:31:09,709 --> 00:31:11,375 He's gonna work with me now. 488 00:31:24,875 --> 00:31:26,333 Vicente: Uh-huh. 489 00:31:30,875 --> 00:31:32,667 Nancy said to me, "You know what? 490 00:31:32,750 --> 00:31:34,917 "It would be great if you'd document Keith now that you're here, 491 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,959 'cause you know how to shoot and everything. Could you document him?" 492 00:31:41,458 --> 00:31:43,125 Mark is trying to film me. 493 00:31:43,208 --> 00:31:46,208 I'll just keep on asking and shooting until someone says no. 494 00:31:46,291 --> 00:31:49,583 Okay. Very cool idea. 495 00:31:49,667 --> 00:31:51,166 -Vicente: You guys ready? -Woman: Mm-hmm. 496 00:31:51,250 --> 00:31:54,041 I started shooting, like, in 2005, 497 00:31:54,125 --> 00:31:56,750 and then a number of people said to me they'd like to learn. 498 00:31:56,834 --> 00:31:57,875 Switch it to "camera." 499 00:31:57,959 --> 00:32:00,458 So I began this program of like teaching people, 500 00:32:00,542 --> 00:32:02,625 you know, how to shoot, how to do sound, 501 00:32:02,709 --> 00:32:04,250 you know, how to edit. 502 00:32:04,333 --> 00:32:07,542 -Cool! -(people laughing) 503 00:32:07,625 --> 00:32:09,250 And it grew to people, 504 00:32:09,333 --> 00:32:10,875 you know, recording with audio, 505 00:32:10,959 --> 00:32:13,250 you had people shooting with video. 506 00:32:13,333 --> 00:32:15,375 And then you had, like, people that were basically 507 00:32:15,458 --> 00:32:18,625 writing down what he said and categorizing it, you know. 508 00:32:18,709 --> 00:32:21,208 It was, it was a whole operation constantly. 509 00:32:25,750 --> 00:32:26,792 Raniere: Good. 510 00:32:26,875 --> 00:32:28,291 And he just said, like, it's important to 511 00:32:28,375 --> 00:32:31,083 document this because, you know, we're talking about 512 00:32:31,166 --> 00:32:32,709 the generations in the future. 513 00:32:32,792 --> 00:32:34,417 Like, at some point in the future, 514 00:32:34,500 --> 00:32:36,709 my hope is this work that we're doing 515 00:32:36,792 --> 00:32:39,000 will end up in universities, will end up in books. 516 00:32:39,083 --> 00:32:41,583 And wouldn't it be wonderful if the world could look back and say, 517 00:32:41,667 --> 00:32:43,500 "Oh, that's what happened." 518 00:32:43,583 --> 00:32:47,125 I take walks with him at like, 2:00 a.m., 3:00 a.m., 4:00 a.m. 519 00:32:47,208 --> 00:32:50,667 And when we're done, I go home and I transcribe the entire thing. 520 00:32:52,792 --> 00:32:54,125 Vicente: Uh-huh. 521 00:32:54,208 --> 00:32:57,834 (Raniere speaking) 522 00:33:00,166 --> 00:33:02,875 -Vicente: Mm-hmm. -(Raniere speaking) 523 00:33:09,375 --> 00:33:12,709 -Vicente: Mm-hmm. -(Raniere speaking) 524 00:33:20,375 --> 00:33:22,291 Vicente: And in that moment, I remember thinking, 525 00:33:22,375 --> 00:33:24,709 this guy fuckin' knows me like nobody has ever known me. 526 00:33:24,792 --> 00:33:27,458 Like, nobody in my family knows me. He knows me. 527 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:30,375 And I'm astounded, 528 00:33:30,458 --> 00:33:32,166 and I remember going-- I didn't sleep much that night, 529 00:33:32,250 --> 00:33:34,208 and I was writing in journals, and writing about, like, 530 00:33:34,291 --> 00:33:37,458 all these things, and, and how much that it impacted me. 531 00:33:37,542 --> 00:33:40,375 And how much I yearned to be this-- 532 00:33:40,458 --> 00:33:42,458 I yearned to be like him. 533 00:33:51,250 --> 00:33:52,625 Raniere: Mm-hmm. 534 00:33:55,083 --> 00:33:56,125 Vicente: Okay. 535 00:33:56,208 --> 00:33:59,583 (Raniere speaking) 536 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:03,125 Vicente: Right. 537 00:34:14,125 --> 00:34:16,834 -Vicente: Yes. -(Raniere speaking) 538 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,291 Vicente: Mm-hmm. 539 00:34:26,709 --> 00:34:28,291 Vicente: Right. 540 00:34:29,792 --> 00:34:30,750 Vicente: Right. 541 00:34:30,834 --> 00:34:32,417 (Raniere speaking) 542 00:34:32,500 --> 00:34:33,667 Vicente: Right. 543 00:34:33,750 --> 00:34:36,250 (Raniere speaking) 544 00:34:38,792 --> 00:34:41,583 -Vicente: Mm-hmm. - (Raniere speaking) 545 00:34:50,875 --> 00:34:52,291 Vicente: Right. 546 00:35:02,583 --> 00:35:04,000 Vicente: Right. 547 00:35:06,166 --> 00:35:09,625 Vicente: Over time, these ideas evolved into a screenplay 548 00:35:09,709 --> 00:35:11,333 called "Carbon Crimes." 549 00:35:12,417 --> 00:35:13,583 It follows Joe, 550 00:35:13,667 --> 00:35:16,333 an idealistic aide to a powerful Senator. 551 00:35:16,417 --> 00:35:19,250 So, Joe, who's spirited and impulsive. 552 00:35:19,333 --> 00:35:20,583 Wants to prove he's good. 553 00:35:20,667 --> 00:35:23,333 Passionate and hopeful. Struggles with lying. 554 00:35:23,417 --> 00:35:25,208 He meets Erik Einhaert, 555 00:35:25,291 --> 00:35:29,542 a world-renowned scientist, professor, and humanitarian. 556 00:35:29,625 --> 00:35:32,083 -Vicente: Yes. -(Raniere speaking) 557 00:35:32,166 --> 00:35:34,875 (keyboard clacking) 558 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,417 -Vicente: Yep. -(Raniere speaking) 559 00:35:43,375 --> 00:35:44,375 Vicente: Mm-hmm. 560 00:35:44,458 --> 00:35:46,542 Einhaert takes Joe under his wing, 561 00:35:46,625 --> 00:35:49,917 and challenges Joe to question all of his assumptions 562 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:51,875 about the entire universe. 563 00:35:53,083 --> 00:35:54,542 So he gave me all the ideas. 564 00:35:54,625 --> 00:35:56,041 And part of it was cool, 'cause it was like, 565 00:35:56,125 --> 00:35:57,250 "Oh, now I'm like Nancy." 566 00:35:57,333 --> 00:35:59,458 Like, he's downloading all the ideas to me 567 00:35:59,542 --> 00:36:01,291 and I'm gonna, like, turn this into something, you know. 568 00:36:01,375 --> 00:36:02,625 So she would turn it into modules, 569 00:36:02,709 --> 00:36:03,875 and I was gonna turn this into a movie. 570 00:36:03,959 --> 00:36:05,208 (phone rings) 571 00:36:10,834 --> 00:36:13,083 -Vicente: Mm-hmm. -(Raniere speaking) 572 00:36:18,166 --> 00:36:19,583 Vicente: I'm in heaven. 573 00:36:19,667 --> 00:36:22,291 We're doing an EM in a movie, 574 00:36:22,375 --> 00:36:24,625 which is all I ever wanted to do. 575 00:36:35,417 --> 00:36:37,333 Vicente: I suppose I was like this 576 00:36:37,417 --> 00:36:39,250 very eager student. 577 00:36:39,333 --> 00:36:41,542 So for seven years of my life, 578 00:36:41,625 --> 00:36:44,166 I call him every single day. 579 00:36:44,250 --> 00:36:45,917 (line ringing) 580 00:36:49,750 --> 00:36:51,166 Hello. 581 00:36:51,750 --> 00:36:52,875 -Hi. -Hi! 582 00:36:52,959 --> 00:36:54,083 How's it going there? 583 00:36:54,166 --> 00:36:55,625 (phone ringing) 584 00:37:10,625 --> 00:37:11,750 Correct. 585 00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:14,959 Right. Is that... 586 00:37:36,542 --> 00:37:37,542 Yeah. 587 00:37:39,291 --> 00:37:42,000 Vicente: I felt that there was a closeness. 588 00:37:42,083 --> 00:37:45,250 You know, the highest IQ in the world is telling you 589 00:37:45,333 --> 00:37:46,959 that you're the one. 590 00:37:47,041 --> 00:37:49,291 You're smart enough to get me. 591 00:37:49,375 --> 00:37:52,583 That's... I don't know. It could be pretty intoxicating. 592 00:37:52,667 --> 00:37:54,917 Nancy said to me, "It's extraordinary, 593 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,125 this relationship you have with Keith." And I was like, "Why?" 594 00:37:57,208 --> 00:37:59,417 She says, "'Cause you're his only male friend." 595 00:37:59,500 --> 00:38:01,291 -Raniere: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. -(indistinct chatter) 596 00:38:01,375 --> 00:38:03,750 (woman laughing) 597 00:38:03,834 --> 00:38:05,667 Vicente: I have the Vanguard. I have the Prefect. 598 00:38:05,750 --> 00:38:08,333 -I have Sarah, my business partner. -Namaste. 599 00:38:08,417 --> 00:38:09,917 Vicente: I have all these people that, like, 600 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:11,625 anytime I need anything, I'll say, "Listen. 601 00:38:11,709 --> 00:38:13,417 Hey, can I talk something through with you?" 602 00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:16,083 They'll say, "Of course you can. Let's go for a walk." You know? 603 00:38:16,166 --> 00:38:18,875 ♪ ♪ 604 00:38:20,291 --> 00:38:22,458 Actually, let's have everybody stand up for a second. 605 00:38:22,542 --> 00:38:24,792 -(class laughing) -For the first time in my life, 606 00:38:24,875 --> 00:38:26,667 I had the feeling of like, 607 00:38:26,750 --> 00:38:28,792 I am with me, and I love me, 608 00:38:28,875 --> 00:38:30,083 and I remember just being like, 609 00:38:30,166 --> 00:38:32,375 "Oh, my God. This is what self-love is." 610 00:38:33,792 --> 00:38:35,333 This feeling is the thing 611 00:38:35,417 --> 00:38:38,333 every single human being in the world wants. 612 00:38:38,417 --> 00:38:40,583 It's priceless. 613 00:38:50,667 --> 00:38:53,041 (indicator clicking) 614 00:38:55,041 --> 00:38:56,792 (line ringing) 615 00:39:15,500 --> 00:39:17,583 -Vicente: Right. -(Sarah Edmondson speaking) 616 00:39:19,709 --> 00:39:21,083 -You know, like... -(Vicente sighs) 617 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,208 (Vicente laughs) 618 00:39:30,417 --> 00:39:33,125 -Edmondson: Yeah. Yeah. -(Vicente speaking) 619 00:39:54,500 --> 00:39:56,250 Vicente: When Bonnie leaves in 2017, 620 00:39:56,333 --> 00:39:58,667 I'm like, "What the fuck am I gonna do?" 621 00:39:59,875 --> 00:40:02,417 If I took in what she said, 622 00:40:02,500 --> 00:40:04,625 it was, it was pretty horrifying. 623 00:40:05,417 --> 00:40:07,625 Because I'd have to question... 624 00:40:07,709 --> 00:40:09,250 Questioning him 625 00:40:09,333 --> 00:40:12,208 felt like I'd question everything about myself. 626 00:40:12,291 --> 00:40:14,125 And I wanted her just to stop. 627 00:40:14,208 --> 00:40:16,417 Like, "Can we stop? Can we not talk about this right now? 628 00:40:16,500 --> 00:40:18,542 Can we, can we talk about it some other time?" 629 00:40:18,625 --> 00:40:20,208 And she was insistent. 630 00:40:20,875 --> 00:40:22,291 I was like, constantly, 631 00:40:22,375 --> 00:40:24,041 every day, trying to get him to understand. 632 00:40:24,125 --> 00:40:25,417 Putting evidence in front of him, 633 00:40:25,500 --> 00:40:29,834 begging him to listen, begging him to read cult books. 634 00:40:29,917 --> 00:40:32,250 He begged me to not keep pushing him, 635 00:40:32,333 --> 00:40:35,458 and to let him have his own process with it. 636 00:40:35,542 --> 00:40:38,125 But he was still talking to Keith. 637 00:40:38,208 --> 00:40:42,250 And I was like, "Fuck." You know, like, all... 638 00:40:42,333 --> 00:40:45,625 All the work, all the progress that I was... 639 00:40:45,709 --> 00:40:47,792 trying to make with him would then be, like, 640 00:40:47,875 --> 00:40:49,333 flushed down the toilet. 641 00:40:50,125 --> 00:40:53,375 ♪ ♪ 642 00:41:56,375 --> 00:41:58,709 (Vicente laughing) 643 00:41:58,792 --> 00:42:00,834 (sighs) You know what Bonnie said to me? 644 00:42:00,917 --> 00:42:04,041 Like, "What will it take?" I said, "Data." 645 00:42:04,125 --> 00:42:05,750 (cars honking) 646 00:42:08,792 --> 00:42:10,166 Piesse: Soon after I left, 647 00:42:10,250 --> 00:42:13,333 another person left and came to LA, 648 00:42:13,417 --> 00:42:15,667 and we started talking about everything. 649 00:42:15,750 --> 00:42:18,667 She gave me information about things that she'd seen 650 00:42:18,750 --> 00:42:20,583 that were very concerning. 651 00:42:22,083 --> 00:42:24,500 And she agreed to talk to Mark. 652 00:42:24,583 --> 00:42:26,959 (indicator clicking) 653 00:42:37,959 --> 00:42:40,750 (ominous music playing) 654 00:42:46,750 --> 00:42:47,709 Vicente: Mm-hmm. 655 00:42:47,792 --> 00:42:50,291 (friend speaking) 656 00:43:36,750 --> 00:43:39,000 ♪ ♪ 657 00:44:04,792 --> 00:44:07,542 Vicente: I'm like, "What the fuck is going on here?" 658 00:44:08,166 --> 00:44:09,458 There's something wrong. 659 00:44:09,542 --> 00:44:13,083 Keith is amazing, but something is fucked up. 660 00:44:26,959 --> 00:44:27,917 Raniere: Mm! 661 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:29,583 (Vicente speaking) 662 00:44:36,417 --> 00:44:37,500 Vicente: Mm-hmm. 663 00:44:37,583 --> 00:44:39,959 (Raniere speaking) 664 00:44:40,041 --> 00:44:41,291 Vicente: Mm-hmm. 665 00:44:41,375 --> 00:44:43,250 (Raniere speaking) 666 00:44:46,750 --> 00:44:49,166 -Vicente: Mm-hmm. -(Raniere speaking) 667 00:44:49,250 --> 00:44:51,458 -Vicente: Mm-hmm. -(Raniere speaking) 668 00:44:51,542 --> 00:44:52,625 Vicente: Mm-hmm. 669 00:45:08,083 --> 00:45:09,458 Vicente: Yep. 670 00:45:10,750 --> 00:45:12,291 Vicente: Yep. 671 00:45:18,667 --> 00:45:20,208 Vicente: It was very hard, 672 00:45:20,291 --> 00:45:23,208 because you're going up against the leader. 673 00:45:23,291 --> 00:45:26,625 And in this case, a leader who had spent 12 years 674 00:45:26,709 --> 00:45:29,834 working his way into my psyche. 675 00:45:32,625 --> 00:45:33,792 (laughing) 676 00:45:44,125 --> 00:45:46,125 ♪ ♪ 677 00:46:16,417 --> 00:46:18,709 (shoes squeaking, ball bouncing) 678 00:46:24,166 --> 00:46:25,500 Yep. 679 00:46:25,583 --> 00:46:27,834 -Boom. There you go. Yeah. -Oh, yeah. That felt good. 680 00:46:28,667 --> 00:46:29,792 Right. 681 00:46:55,375 --> 00:46:56,542 Vicente: Um... 682 00:47:06,667 --> 00:47:09,208 Edmondson: Yes, yeah. 683 00:47:32,500 --> 00:47:33,500 Edmondson: I-- I-- 684 00:47:33,583 --> 00:47:35,291 (Vicente speaking) 685 00:47:39,583 --> 00:47:42,041 Vicente: You feel like you're going crazy. 686 00:47:42,125 --> 00:47:44,792 He got my best friend to basically spy on me. 687 00:47:45,959 --> 00:47:48,333 Every single thing that I was suspecting him of, 688 00:47:48,417 --> 00:47:50,125 I kept on explaining it away, 689 00:47:50,208 --> 00:47:52,041 like, maybe there's a good reason. 690 00:47:52,125 --> 00:47:53,667 That day I allowed myself 691 00:47:53,750 --> 00:47:55,917 to like question, what if there's not? 692 00:47:56,500 --> 00:47:58,166 (line ringing) 693 00:48:02,125 --> 00:48:05,333 -Raniere: Uh-huh. -(Vicente speaking) 694 00:48:07,291 --> 00:48:08,625 Raniere: Okay. 695 00:48:10,291 --> 00:48:12,959 (Vicente speaking) 696 00:48:13,875 --> 00:48:15,625 Raniere: Mm-hmm. 697 00:48:16,959 --> 00:48:18,125 Raniere: Uh-huh. 698 00:48:19,291 --> 00:48:20,542 Vicente: Mm-hmm. 699 00:48:20,625 --> 00:48:23,250 (Raniere speaking) 700 00:50:19,083 --> 00:50:21,083 ♪ ♪ 701 00:50:22,792 --> 00:50:24,583 Vicente: He's lying to me. 702 00:50:27,875 --> 00:50:32,333 ♪ ♪ 703 00:50:32,417 --> 00:50:34,458 Twelve years of spending time with him, 704 00:50:34,542 --> 00:50:37,875 thinking that every single thing that comes out of his mouth 705 00:50:37,959 --> 00:50:39,917 is honest. 706 00:50:44,375 --> 00:50:47,375 ♪ ♪ 707 00:50:47,458 --> 00:50:49,417 Wait, okay, so that's a lie. 708 00:50:50,333 --> 00:50:52,583 What if it's not the only one? 709 00:50:53,542 --> 00:50:57,458 It was like there was a crack in the dam. 710 00:50:57,542 --> 00:50:59,166 (high-pitched tone) 711 00:51:01,291 --> 00:51:03,625 You collapse in a puddle... 712 00:51:04,625 --> 00:51:06,625 of, of horror and shock. 713 00:51:07,750 --> 00:51:09,792 That's waking up. 714 00:51:09,875 --> 00:51:12,208 It's a very, very deep and disturbing 715 00:51:12,291 --> 00:51:14,000 dark night of the soul. 716 00:51:14,083 --> 00:51:16,250 (crickets chirping) 717 00:51:18,500 --> 00:51:20,250 Piesse: We went for a hike, 718 00:51:20,333 --> 00:51:22,041 and he said to me, "My eyes are open, 719 00:51:22,125 --> 00:51:25,125 and I want you to know that I am loyal to you above them." 720 00:51:26,625 --> 00:51:29,417 And for the first time, he started asking me questions 721 00:51:29,500 --> 00:51:31,208 about what I thought. (sniffles) 722 00:51:36,166 --> 00:51:37,709 Vicente (on voicemail): Hello, this is Mark. 723 00:51:37,792 --> 00:51:39,792 Please leave a message after the beep. 724 00:51:39,875 --> 00:51:41,000 (phone beeps) 725 00:52:11,041 --> 00:52:12,667 Vicente: "Dear Keith, Nancy, 726 00:52:12,750 --> 00:52:14,458 "and members of the executive board, 727 00:52:14,542 --> 00:52:17,583 "as I've expressed in many different ways over the last years, 728 00:52:17,667 --> 00:52:18,959 "I've had strong aspirations 729 00:52:19,041 --> 00:52:21,834 "to return my focus and effort to my career. 730 00:52:22,875 --> 00:52:25,417 "As such, I am resigning from ESP. 731 00:52:26,166 --> 00:52:27,291 "With respect to the centers, 732 00:52:27,375 --> 00:52:29,625 "I will be discussing my transition with Sarah, 733 00:52:29,709 --> 00:52:31,792 "and I will apprise the Greens of which coaches 734 00:52:31,875 --> 00:52:33,125 need to be transferred." 735 00:52:33,208 --> 00:52:34,709 (indistinct chatter) 736 00:52:34,792 --> 00:52:37,667 It was the point of no return. 737 00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:40,250 And I now understand I have to tell Sarah. 738 00:52:47,333 --> 00:52:48,667 Edmondson: Mm-hmm. 739 00:52:48,750 --> 00:52:51,750 (Vicente speaking) 740 00:54:21,166 --> 00:54:24,291 (indistinct chatter in background on Edmondson's line) 741 00:54:25,834 --> 00:54:27,875 (voices fade) 742 00:54:50,834 --> 00:54:52,375 (recorder beeps off) 743 00:54:52,458 --> 00:54:54,208 Vicente: When we switched off the recording, 744 00:54:54,291 --> 00:54:57,875 Sarah tells me that she is in this thing, 745 00:54:57,959 --> 00:55:00,917 that it's called DOS, and then she tells me, 746 00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:02,792 um, "They branded me as well." 747 00:55:02,875 --> 00:55:04,667 And I remember going, something like, "What? 748 00:55:04,750 --> 00:55:06,583 They b-- They did what?" 749 00:55:07,208 --> 00:55:08,417 (phone bloops) 750 00:55:10,125 --> 00:55:12,250 What the fuck? 751 00:55:20,417 --> 00:55:23,542 (ominous music playing) 752 00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:30,792 (music intensifies) 753 00:55:30,875 --> 00:55:32,875 ("Hit Me Where It Hurts" by Caroline Polachek playing) 754 00:55:32,959 --> 00:55:35,041 ♪ I'm feeling like a butterfly trapped inside a plane ♪ 755 00:55:35,125 --> 00:55:38,000 ♪ Maybe there's something going on ♪ 756 00:55:38,083 --> 00:55:39,500 ♪ I'm not insane ♪ 757 00:55:39,583 --> 00:55:41,917 ♪ If I'm already out of time ♪ 758 00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:43,417 ♪ Then make it worse ♪ 759 00:55:43,500 --> 00:55:45,834 ♪ Go on and hit me in the heart ♪ 760 00:55:45,917 --> 00:55:47,750 ♪ Hit me where it hurts ♪ 761 00:55:47,834 --> 00:55:49,375 ♪ Go on and hit me in the ♪ 762 00:55:49,458 --> 00:55:53,291 ♪ Bullseye, dead end, moving target ♪ 763 00:55:53,375 --> 00:55:57,583 ♪ Carousel, carousel, Baggage, claim it ♪ 764 00:55:57,667 --> 00:56:01,667 ♪ Promise one day you will hate me ♪ 765 00:56:01,750 --> 00:56:03,834 ♪ But right now just ride it out ♪ 766 00:56:03,917 --> 00:56:05,834 ♪ Ride it out, ride it out ♪ 767 00:56:05,917 --> 00:56:09,750 ♪ Magic carpet, over London ♪ 768 00:56:09,834 --> 00:56:12,083 ♪ Through the ceiling ♪ 769 00:56:12,166 --> 00:56:14,041 ♪ Watch you dreaming ♪ 770 00:56:14,125 --> 00:56:17,959 ♪ Promise one day you will hate me ♪ 771 00:56:18,041 --> 00:56:20,667 ♪ But right now just ride it out, ride it out ♪ 772 00:56:20,750 --> 00:56:24,500 ♪ I'm feeling like a butterfly trapped inside a plane ♪ 773 00:56:24,583 --> 00:56:27,041 ♪ Maybe there's something going on ♪ 774 00:56:27,125 --> 00:56:28,750 ♪ I'm not insane ♪ 775 00:56:28,834 --> 00:56:31,291 ♪ If I'm already out of time ♪ 776 00:56:31,375 --> 00:56:32,792 ♪ Then make it worse ♪ 777 00:56:32,875 --> 00:56:34,959 ♪ Go on and hit me in the heart ♪ 778 00:56:35,041 --> 00:56:36,875 ♪ Hit me where it hurts ♪ 779 00:56:36,959 --> 00:56:38,542 ♪ Go on and hit me in the ♪ 780 00:56:38,625 --> 00:56:40,834 ♪ Blind spot, Achilles heel... ♪