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ESP is a methodology
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for optimizing or enhancing
human experience and behavior.
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Some of the
questions that the coaches asked
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were just so spot on.
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If you could have
or be anything,
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what would that feel like?
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Raniere proposed this map
of how everything worked.
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It was a
unified theory to explain
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why people do what they
do and how to change that.
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This is a code to
understand myself.
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It was like, holy shit,
I can be the ideal version of myself,
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to write my own character.
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The deeper the commitment,
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the better and
clearer life becomes.
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Hey, can you talk quick?
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Bonnie got there first.
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If I look at those women,
they're all not doing well.
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It took me longer.
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There's a lot of
things I'm starting to see
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about the organization.
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It's not right.
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I feel like my life
and body was stolen.
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I want to have that
life. I want to get it back.
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Hmm.
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Okay,
so I feel wounded right now.
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And I've been trying really hard
to turn it around and stay positive,
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and, you know, trust that,
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that good always wins.
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That,
that light wins over darkness.
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But Keith head-fucked us,
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the girls that were in that group,
specifically, in a way that...
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I don't know that everyone
got head-fucked like that.
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So...
So that's the daily struggle.
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Huh.
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- Well...
- But, yeah.
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Hmm.
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When I first met Keith,
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my gut feeling was like...
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Ew! You know,
something's a bit gross.
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He would kiss you on the lips.
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That's just kind of what he did.
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And everyone else did it,
as well.
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But at the same time,
I had really enjoyed the five-day
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and was very moved and
he was the creator of that,
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and so I need to like,
let go of that,
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and just see what's
right in front of me,
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which is a guy who's
saying he wants to help me.
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If this guy's created all these things
that are helping so many people,
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like, who cares about the
kissing on the lips thing?
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Mm-hmm.
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Keith said to me, you know,
you could be in Simply Human,
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the singing group of ESP.
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That's when I started spending
a lot of time with Allison Mack.
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Allison saw Keith as like a guru,
a spiritual master,
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and she was very
committed to the mission.
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If we actually
understood compassion,
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the world would be
a much better place.
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Like,
not even the world. Like .00 percent.
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Three percent of the
world. If they could just have
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this little dose of love,
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everything would change.
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Everything.
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- Everything. -
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Are you ready for promotions?
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Our proctors have met
various ethical standards
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to qualify to enter into
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an independent contractor-ship
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on one of our career paths.
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- You ready? - Yes.
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Bonnie Piesse.
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Allison Mack.
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Our new one-stripe
full proctors.
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I was amazed by the EM tech.
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Ta-da! - Man: Yeah!
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Yay! Thank you.
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- - Ow!
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Where you break a Pavlovian link
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to help a person
overcome a limiting belief.
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And I wanted to
do that right away.
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But then you're told that you need
to wait till you're a two-stripe coach
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to even start learning the tech.
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Then you had to
go out and practice.
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And so I,
I practiced two and a half years.
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Like,
1,500 EMs to get to two stripe.
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I was told that I
could earn money
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by the time I got to EM one.
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And by the time I got there,
they said,
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"Oh, no,
we've changed the standards."
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Now you have to pass, like,
we're thinking, EM five.
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Financially,
I was going deeper into debt.
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I was kind of just getting by
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going to "Star
Wars" conventions,
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going and playing
shows at colleges.
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Thank you so much!
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It wasn't working.
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And Keith kept saying to us,
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"Give it a few months and you
guys will be earning great money."
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But instead,
it felt like once I got to proctor,
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suddenly I was more
obligated to give for free.
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And so you're strung along,
practicing, practicing, practicing.
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Then Keith invited some of
us into development teams.
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And that's when the workload
started to get heavier and heavier.
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A typical day during
that time would be
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up at five...
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shove some breakfast in my body,
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run a yoga class,
get feedback from Keith,
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coach intensives,
go and give free EMs.
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As a facilitator, you couldn't really
get up and even use the bathroom.
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I wouldn't have a lunch break.
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I would eat on
the way in the car.
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Meetings, meetings,
meetings. I was still trying to uphold
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my obligation to
being a proctor.
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And then drive to
Simply Human practice.
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And then I'd be on the
phone practicing EMs
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until two or three.
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- - Up at five.
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So like,
we were all running on no sleep.
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And even as you're
working 23 hours a day,
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you're getting feedback of like,
"Why aren't you doing more?"
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What is comfort? Think
about it for a second.
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It was about productivity,
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but it was about
pushing through.
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Like,
we were taught in everything
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that to have character you need to,
like,
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overcome your body feelings.
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And you don't need as much
rest as you think and, like, it's...
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It shows you how strong you are.
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Comfort is like an addiction,
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and when you find comfort,
you try to be more comfortable,
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and just everything comfortable
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and we don't push
our bodies too much,
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and comfortable, comfortable,
comfortable, right?
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The more we indulge
in this addiction,
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the more we have to lose.
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So it feels like tough love.
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It feels like you've got these
people who care about you,
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who are saying,
"You need to do this.
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"This is all for your own good.
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And for the good of the world."
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And you're even thankful. You're like,
"Thank you for, for pushing me,
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and like,
trying to help me get through this."
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So welcome
to the world of discomfort.
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If you are not uncomfortable,
you are not working on anything.
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Your life should be a life of
discomfort if you want to grow.
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If you don't want to grow, hey,
sent shit away. Your choice.
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I found myself, like,
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sitting in Clifton Park going,
"What are, like...
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"How'd I get here?
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This is my life now."
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And that didn't feel good.
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And I was looking
around at all these people
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that just didn't
seem joyful to me.
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And I was like,
I feel like everyone's being squished.
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And I started to see
red flags with Allison.
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I noticed that she was getting
obsessed with her weight.
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Like, it started to feel weird.
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And I couldn't really
put my finger on it.
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But it was just like
a feeling that I had.
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The coaches didn't
really deny intuition,
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but they led you to
believe that your intuition
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was just a feeling,
just a viscera,
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and that you
needed to try to fix it.
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Like, if you had a normal
emotional reaction to something,
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they explained that it was
just the world controlling you,
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and it was something that you
needed to overcome and work through.
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We want to empower people,
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particularly the way our will
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interfaces with our body,
our neurology, our viscera.
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And we have these different
techniques that help people,
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if you will,
drive their vehicle better.
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In exo/eso, we were taught that
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just like you can
stretch your body,
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you can also stretch your
emotions and unlock feelings
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that are holding
back your growth.
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They give you exercises where
you can literally open up the viscera,
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and expand it into, like, joy.
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Find yourself
in a comfortable position.
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Maybe lay on the ground, and...
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just relax your body.
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Now transition to the
feeling of suffering.
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Think back to the
last time you suffered.
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Just feel that feeling.
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Now intensify it.
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Bring it up to the most intense
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that you can make the suffering.
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To 25, up to 50.
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Seventy-five.
Push a little harder.
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All the way up to 100!
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One-hundred percent suffering!
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Now switch.
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Bring up this opposite emotion.
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What is it for you?
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What do you call it?
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Now start to intensify
that even further.
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Bring it all the way
up to the 100 of it.
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One-hundred percent
of the opposite emotion.
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What is this?
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What do you call it?
Have you felt it before?
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And now you're going to
switch back to suffering.
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Go ahead. Switch.
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Were you able to
bring it back up?
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And now switch.
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How do you feel now
that you've stretched,
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and explored your internal
emotional experience?
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And that's great,
in a lot of ways.
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It feels powerful.
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It feels like you can go out
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and achieve the
things that you want.
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And that's in your hands.
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But looking back,
I can see how that's really misused.
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It's a way to get you to
ignore your gut feelings.
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I had to tread really carefully.
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Like I couldn't really say
what I thought to Mark.
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He was very defensive.
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And he'd fight back and say,
"You have to stop."
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But I couldn't stop.
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Mm-hmm.
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Mm-hmm.
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Keith used to
teach some of us that
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on the path to enlightenment,
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you'd reach this
barren wasteland.
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Like,
you reach a space of nothing
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before you find
this ultimate joy.
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Joy feels like your,
your cells are gonna burst apart.
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As a matter of fact,
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the more pain we feel,
the more we feel,
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uh, alive in a body.
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My body was
starting to fall apart.
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And I was having
blood sugar crashes.
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And I felt like I
couldn't breathe
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when I was in the classrooms.
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And then Mark encouraged
me to talk to Keith.
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- Yep.
- Well...
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Um-hmm.
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- You know?
- Mm-hmm.
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Right.
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And it just...
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No.
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Usually, I had just obeyed.
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But at that point, my intuition was,
like, screaming at me.
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It was like,
"You have to get out."
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Before I left,
Allison invited me for a walk.
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She was kind of
at her skinniest.
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She looked like her back
bones were sticking out.
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But I confronted her and I said,
"I think you're sick.
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"You're not eating.
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"Like, there's a problem,
and you need to address it,
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and start eating."
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And she said, "Well,
Keith is measuring my calories.
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And he says as long as I'm
having my period, I'm fine."
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And then she said
that she'd made
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a lifetime vow to Keith.
253
00:19:25,375 --> 00:19:27,625
And I think she said it was
254
00:19:27,709 --> 00:19:29,709
a vow of devotion.
255
00:19:29,792 --> 00:19:33,625
And she lifted up her shirt
and showed me her belly chain.
256
00:19:33,709 --> 00:19:38,166
She said, "And this is to
symbolize the vow that I've made."
257
00:19:38,250 --> 00:19:40,709
I certainly didn't
understand it.
258
00:19:40,792 --> 00:19:42,583
But I didn't see
the darkness in it
259
00:19:42,667 --> 00:19:44,750
that was really
there at that point.
260
00:19:52,792 --> 00:19:54,458
I reached out to
someone who had quit
261
00:19:54,542 --> 00:19:56,250
and who had kind
of dropped hints
262
00:19:56,333 --> 00:19:58,917
that they knew
what was going on.
263
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,792
And I felt like they knew
something that I didn't.
264
00:20:02,458 --> 00:20:03,792
I just said, like,
265
00:20:03,875 --> 00:20:06,000
"Would you trust me enough
to tell me what you see?
266
00:20:06,083 --> 00:20:09,291
"'Cause I don't intellectually
know what I'm looking at.
267
00:20:09,375 --> 00:20:10,959
I know what I'm feeling."
268
00:20:11,959 --> 00:20:14,834
And she said, "Well,
269
00:20:14,917 --> 00:20:17,250
in a high-control group..."
270
00:20:17,333 --> 00:20:19,226
And I don't even remember
the rest of the sentence,
271
00:20:19,250 --> 00:20:22,333
but, like,
when I heard high-control group...
272
00:20:24,500 --> 00:20:25,875
It... I didn't know what it was,
273
00:20:25,959 --> 00:20:28,291
but it just doesn't
sound very good.
274
00:20:39,041 --> 00:20:41,500
And I actually asked,
"Do you think Keith knows?
275
00:20:41,583 --> 00:20:43,083
Like,
maybe we need to tell him."
276
00:20:43,166 --> 00:20:47,750
And she was like, "I think it's
deliberately designed that way."
277
00:20:47,834 --> 00:20:50,959
And so I called him and I said,
you know, "Here's what I see.
278
00:20:51,041 --> 00:20:53,917
"I see that all your
companies are...
279
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,417
"built on abuse,
obligation, guilt,
280
00:20:56,500 --> 00:20:58,667
and coercion. I
can't support it."
281
00:20:59,667 --> 00:21:01,750
And he said...
282
00:21:01,834 --> 00:21:03,667
"Oh, I think, you know,
283
00:21:03,750 --> 00:21:06,458
"there are some issues
that you never worked.
284
00:21:07,333 --> 00:21:09,500
"You seem to have a...
285
00:21:09,583 --> 00:21:12,000
a commitment to being a victim."
286
00:21:14,083 --> 00:21:16,542
We have a
fight or flight mechanism,
287
00:21:16,625 --> 00:21:19,375
which triggers this
thing we call fear.
288
00:21:19,458 --> 00:21:20,750
When we're fearful,
289
00:21:20,834 --> 00:21:23,500
when we're making
decisions based on fear,
290
00:21:23,583 --> 00:21:24,875
we are at effect.
291
00:21:24,959 --> 00:21:27,583
It's the lowest
state of existence.
292
00:21:27,667 --> 00:21:30,750
As you make your
decision based on fear,
293
00:21:30,834 --> 00:21:33,458
now it's not your
psyche controlling,
294
00:21:33,542 --> 00:21:35,625
it's the body and the world
295
00:21:35,709 --> 00:21:37,458
controlling your psyche.
296
00:21:37,542 --> 00:21:40,250
Now we have joy. What is joy?
297
00:21:40,333 --> 00:21:43,792
And what's the opposite of joy?
We talk about joy and misery.
298
00:21:43,875 --> 00:21:47,000
When someone is miserable,
299
00:21:47,083 --> 00:21:48,959
they feel small.
300
00:21:49,041 --> 00:21:51,291
Misery is constrictive.
301
00:21:51,375 --> 00:21:53,417
It's self-oriented,
302
00:21:53,500 --> 00:21:55,333
and it's destructive.
303
00:21:55,417 --> 00:21:57,875
You know,
it's involved with suffering,
304
00:21:57,959 --> 00:21:59,959
self-pity,
things along those lines,
305
00:22:00,041 --> 00:22:01,750
or malice.
306
00:22:09,375 --> 00:22:10,500
No.
307
00:22:10,583 --> 00:22:12,125
So, I lost my opportunity
308
00:22:12,208 --> 00:22:14,667
to talk to people freely,
because...
309
00:22:14,750 --> 00:22:17,875
I think a lot of
people saw it as...
310
00:22:17,959 --> 00:22:20,750
dishonorable and
weak that I left.
311
00:22:21,542 --> 00:22:23,542
I feel unsure of myself.
312
00:22:23,625 --> 00:22:27,667
We were taught you
need to push through.
313
00:22:27,750 --> 00:22:29,792
It shows you how strong you are.
314
00:22:29,875 --> 00:22:32,583
Like,
maybe I really am a bad person
315
00:22:32,667 --> 00:22:36,125
for questioning and
being disloyal and leaving.
316
00:22:36,208 --> 00:22:38,291
Maybe I'm the problem.
317
00:22:41,834 --> 00:22:43,518
Hi. You've called Bonnie.
318
00:22:43,542 --> 00:22:46,000
Leave a message and I'll get
back to you as soon as I can.
319
00:23:23,709 --> 00:23:26,229
"Finally, I wish to remain
on good terms with the company
320
00:23:26,291 --> 00:23:30,125
and have no ethical or unresolved
issues with NXIVM and ESP."
321
00:23:44,291 --> 00:23:45,667
Mm-hmm.
322
00:23:51,041 --> 00:23:52,458
Yeah.
323
00:24:25,959 --> 00:24:28,083
I finally
opened up with a friend.
324
00:24:28,166 --> 00:24:31,792
I just, like, let it all out,
and told her everything.
325
00:24:31,875 --> 00:24:34,959
And she said, "You know,
you might need to break up with him.
326
00:24:35,041 --> 00:24:37,041
You might need to leave him."
327
00:24:39,792 --> 00:24:41,625
It's so sad that a
lot of relationships
328
00:24:41,709 --> 00:24:44,041
go from being great
in the beginning,
329
00:24:44,125 --> 00:24:46,291
to there's all this
resentment and anger,
330
00:24:46,375 --> 00:24:48,583
and they just seem to get
kind of more and more bitter.
331
00:24:48,667 --> 00:24:51,667
This helps you resolve those things,
so that you can
332
00:24:51,750 --> 00:24:54,208
make your
relationship get better.
333
00:24:55,500 --> 00:24:58,208
This marriage is one of the
most successful things in my life.
334
00:24:58,291 --> 00:24:59,792
For certain.
335
00:24:59,875 --> 00:25:02,333
I believe we have a really
successful relationship,
336
00:25:02,417 --> 00:25:04,041
and it didn't just happen.
337
00:25:39,125 --> 00:25:40,768
Hi. You've called Bonnie.
338
00:25:40,792 --> 00:25:43,625
Leave a message and I'll get
back to you as soon as I can.
339
00:26:44,834 --> 00:26:46,917
So you want to interview me or something,
or...?
340
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,500
Light bulbs out.
341
00:26:50,834 --> 00:26:52,166
Okay, so you're gonna sit there.
342
00:26:52,250 --> 00:26:54,959
I'll interview you, and film you?
343
00:26:58,250 --> 00:26:59,875
So,
344
00:26:59,959 --> 00:27:02,166
um, Keith,
in the time that I spent with you,
345
00:27:02,250 --> 00:27:04,250
it's clear that you have
a whole series of ideas
346
00:27:04,333 --> 00:27:05,709
that are really amazing.
347
00:27:05,792 --> 00:27:07,458
Well, first of all,
348
00:27:07,542 --> 00:27:09,834
I, I don't know if the
ideas are amazing or not.
349
00:27:09,917 --> 00:27:11,542
I...
350
00:27:11,625 --> 00:27:14,750
My assumption is that I,
I have some,
351
00:27:14,834 --> 00:27:17,125
uh, relatively strong ideas,
352
00:27:17,208 --> 00:27:19,875
uh,
that I communicate pretty well.
353
00:27:29,208 --> 00:27:30,542
My name is Mark Vicente.
354
00:27:30,625 --> 00:27:34,458
I'm a filmmaker from the
apartheid era South Africa.
355
00:27:34,542 --> 00:27:37,125
George Lucas had as his
mentor Joseph Campbell,
356
00:27:37,208 --> 00:27:39,166
an American mythologist.
357
00:27:39,250 --> 00:27:41,583
I have as my mentor
an American scientist
358
00:27:41,667 --> 00:27:43,917
and philosopher by the
name of Keith Raniere.
359
00:27:44,709 --> 00:27:46,125
He asked me a question,
360
00:27:46,208 --> 00:27:48,000
and the question
he asked me was,
361
00:27:48,083 --> 00:27:49,875
"What is bravery?"
362
00:27:50,917 --> 00:27:52,250
What does that mean?
363
00:27:52,333 --> 00:27:54,375
Well,
there's a dictionary definition.
364
00:27:54,458 --> 00:27:58,417
But in the deepest sense,
it means to be able to bear pain.
365
00:27:58,500 --> 00:28:00,417
You know,
you look at all the people who
366
00:28:00,500 --> 00:28:02,000
are allegedly enlightened.
367
00:28:02,083 --> 00:28:04,583
All the different gurus,
whether it be the Buddha,
368
00:28:04,667 --> 00:28:06,333
the Jesus, or, or Gandhi.
369
00:28:06,417 --> 00:28:08,792
They're not just
sitting on a pillow.
370
00:28:08,875 --> 00:28:11,000
They're not just
being fed grapes
371
00:28:11,083 --> 00:28:12,500
and doing nothing, you know?
372
00:28:12,583 --> 00:28:15,125
And struggle,
there's nothing negative about it.
373
00:28:15,208 --> 00:28:17,125
It's the nature of life.
374
00:28:17,208 --> 00:28:20,291
When I first met Keith,
he said to me,
375
00:28:20,375 --> 00:28:22,142
"You know,
it'd be good if you just moved here
376
00:28:22,166 --> 00:28:25,667
so we could, like,
have more of these conversations."
377
00:28:25,750 --> 00:28:28,125
Albany, anybody? Albany?
378
00:28:31,125 --> 00:28:32,765
It wasn't
really in Albany proper.
379
00:28:32,834 --> 00:28:35,583
It was more north
in Clifton Park.
380
00:28:36,959 --> 00:28:40,125
Everybody knew, pretty much,
where everybody lived.
381
00:28:40,208 --> 00:28:42,792
So you'd always run into people.
382
00:28:42,875 --> 00:28:45,083
And in between,
we're just the civilians.
383
00:28:45,166 --> 00:28:47,125
You know,
those people who just live there.
384
00:28:48,166 --> 00:28:49,375
And then at night,
385
00:28:49,458 --> 00:28:51,917
you know,
you were expected to go to volleyball.
386
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,166
It was like, you know,
midnight to 7:00 a.m.
387
00:28:56,458 --> 00:28:59,375
And around, um, 10:30 or 11,
388
00:28:59,458 --> 00:29:01,959
the A team and Keith
Raniere would show up.
389
00:29:09,250 --> 00:29:11,291
Help, help. Help!
390
00:29:11,375 --> 00:29:13,458
Why volleyball?
391
00:29:14,333 --> 00:29:16,834
I didn't understand
volleyball at first.
392
00:29:16,917 --> 00:29:19,917
But it became a
big social event.
393
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,458
When intensives were going on,
394
00:29:21,542 --> 00:29:24,333
you could have like 50,
60 people in the bleachers,
395
00:29:24,417 --> 00:29:26,583
basically just watching,
396
00:29:26,667 --> 00:29:30,000
EM-ing each other,
whispering to each other, talking,
397
00:29:30,083 --> 00:29:31,750
and then in between games,
398
00:29:31,834 --> 00:29:33,750
everybody would gaggle around him,
you know,
399
00:29:33,834 --> 00:29:35,768
and ask him question
after question after question,
400
00:29:35,792 --> 00:29:37,643
and we'd stand there for
like half an hour sometimes,
401
00:29:37,667 --> 00:29:39,959
cooling down
while he was talking,
402
00:29:40,041 --> 00:29:42,000
and then we'd play again.
403
00:30:05,709 --> 00:30:07,500
You know,
he was like the rock star.
404
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,542
Is that okay?
405
00:30:18,208 --> 00:30:19,792
And in the end, it was all about
406
00:30:19,875 --> 00:30:21,595
- seeing him.
- ...tries to handle the ball.
407
00:30:23,792 --> 00:30:26,709
That's what everybody
said. It's a chance to see him.
408
00:30:27,875 --> 00:30:30,959
I basically try every
day to reach him.
409
00:30:31,041 --> 00:30:34,125
We're gonna... Let's talk about
projects. Let's talk about things.
410
00:30:34,208 --> 00:30:36,875
And it's very frustrating,
because he won't respond.
411
00:30:36,959 --> 00:30:38,810
And I go to volleyball,
like, three times a week,
412
00:30:38,834 --> 00:30:40,768
and I'm talking to him and say,
"When are we gonna start?
413
00:30:40,792 --> 00:30:42,917
When are we gonna start?
When are we gonna start?"
414
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,917
And it's like he just...
415
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,291
Almost like he forgot.
416
00:30:47,375 --> 00:30:49,333
And so I'm in this state
of complete insecurity.
417
00:30:49,417 --> 00:30:51,291
Like, I just uprooted my life.
418
00:30:51,375 --> 00:30:53,083
Six weeks go by.
419
00:30:53,625 --> 00:30:54,875
On my birthday,
420
00:30:54,959 --> 00:30:57,583
seven o'clock in the morning,
Keith Raniere calls me.
421
00:30:57,667 --> 00:31:00,375
And he says, "Hey,
you wanna take a walk?" I mean...
422
00:31:00,458 --> 00:31:02,333
And I'm like fuckin' ready.
423
00:31:02,417 --> 00:31:03,875
You know, I'm there.
424
00:31:03,959 --> 00:31:05,119
I've got my recorder with me,
425
00:31:05,166 --> 00:31:06,583
I've got a little
note pad with me,
426
00:31:06,667 --> 00:31:08,625
and I'm so excited.
427
00:31:09,709 --> 00:31:11,375
He's gonna work with me now.
428
00:31:24,875 --> 00:31:26,333
Uh-huh.
429
00:31:30,875 --> 00:31:32,667
Nancy said to me,
"You know what?
430
00:31:32,750 --> 00:31:34,976
"It would be great if you'd
document Keith now that you're here,
431
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,959
'cause you know how to shoot and
everything. Could you document him?"
432
00:31:41,458 --> 00:31:43,125
Mark is trying to film me.
433
00:31:43,208 --> 00:31:46,208
I'll just keep on asking and
shooting until someone says no.
434
00:31:46,291 --> 00:31:49,583
Okay. Very cool idea.
435
00:31:49,667 --> 00:31:51,226
- You guys ready?
- Mm-hmm.
436
00:31:51,250 --> 00:31:54,041
I started shooting,
like, in 2005,
437
00:31:54,125 --> 00:31:56,750
and then a number of people
said to me they'd like to learn.
438
00:31:56,834 --> 00:31:57,875
Switch it to "camera."
439
00:31:57,959 --> 00:32:00,458
So I began this program
of like teaching people,
440
00:32:00,542 --> 00:32:02,625
you know, how to shoot,
how to do sound,
441
00:32:02,709 --> 00:32:04,250
you know, how to edit.
442
00:32:04,333 --> 00:32:07,542
- Cool! -
443
00:32:07,625 --> 00:32:09,250
And it grew to people,
444
00:32:09,333 --> 00:32:10,875
you know, recording with audio,
445
00:32:10,959 --> 00:32:13,250
you had people
shooting with video.
446
00:32:13,333 --> 00:32:15,375
And then you had, like,
people that were basically
447
00:32:15,458 --> 00:32:18,625
writing down what he said
and categorizing it, you know.
448
00:32:18,709 --> 00:32:21,208
It was,
it was a whole operation constantly.
449
00:32:25,750 --> 00:32:26,792
Good.
450
00:32:26,875 --> 00:32:28,351
And he just said,
like, it's important to
451
00:32:28,375 --> 00:32:31,083
document this because,
you know, we're talking about
452
00:32:31,166 --> 00:32:32,709
the generations in the future.
453
00:32:32,792 --> 00:32:34,417
Like,
at some point in the future,
454
00:32:34,500 --> 00:32:36,709
my hope is this
work that we're doing
455
00:32:36,792 --> 00:32:39,000
will end up in universities,
will end up in books.
456
00:32:39,083 --> 00:32:41,643
And wouldn't it be wonderful if
the world could look back and say,
457
00:32:41,667 --> 00:32:43,500
"Oh, that's what happened."
458
00:32:43,583 --> 00:32:47,125
I take walks with him at like,
2:00 a.m., 3:00 a.m., 4:00 a.m.
459
00:32:47,208 --> 00:32:50,667
And when we're done, I go home
and I transcribe the entire thing.
460
00:32:52,792 --> 00:32:54,125
Uh-huh.
461
00:33:00,166 --> 00:33:02,875
Mm-hmm.
462
00:33:09,375 --> 00:33:12,709
Mm-hmm.
463
00:33:20,375 --> 00:33:22,291
And in that moment,
I remember thinking,
464
00:33:22,375 --> 00:33:24,709
this guy fuckin' knows me
like nobody has ever known me.
465
00:33:24,792 --> 00:33:27,458
Like,
nobody in my family knows me. He knows me.
466
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:30,375
And I'm astounded,
467
00:33:30,458 --> 00:33:32,226
and I remember going... I
didn't sleep much that night,
468
00:33:32,250 --> 00:33:34,267
and I was writing in journals,
and writing about, like,
469
00:33:34,291 --> 00:33:37,458
all these things, and,
and how much that it impacted me.
470
00:33:37,542 --> 00:33:40,375
And how much I
yearned to be this...
471
00:33:40,458 --> 00:33:42,458
I yearned to be like him.
472
00:33:51,250 --> 00:33:52,625
Mm-hmm.
473
00:33:55,083 --> 00:33:56,125
Okay.
474
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:03,125
Right.
475
00:34:14,125 --> 00:34:16,834
Yes.
476
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,291
Mm-hmm.
477
00:34:26,709 --> 00:34:28,291
Right.
478
00:34:29,792 --> 00:34:30,792
Right.
479
00:34:32,500 --> 00:34:33,667
Right.
480
00:34:38,792 --> 00:34:41,583
Mm-hmm.
481
00:34:50,875 --> 00:34:52,291
Right.
482
00:35:02,583 --> 00:35:04,000
Right.
483
00:35:06,166 --> 00:35:09,625
Over time,
these ideas evolved into a screenplay
484
00:35:09,709 --> 00:35:11,333
called "Carbon Crimes."
485
00:35:12,417 --> 00:35:13,583
It follows Joe,
486
00:35:13,667 --> 00:35:16,333
an idealistic aide to
a powerful Senator.
487
00:35:16,417 --> 00:35:19,250
So, Joe,
who's spirited and impulsive.
488
00:35:19,333 --> 00:35:20,583
Wants to prove he's good.
489
00:35:20,667 --> 00:35:23,333
Passionate and hopeful.
Struggles with lying.
490
00:35:23,417 --> 00:35:25,208
He meets Erik Einhaert,
491
00:35:25,291 --> 00:35:29,542
a world-renowned scientist,
professor, and humanitarian.
492
00:35:29,625 --> 00:35:32,083
Yes.
493
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,417
Yep.
494
00:35:43,375 --> 00:35:44,375
Mm-hmm.
495
00:35:44,458 --> 00:35:46,542
Einhaert takes
Joe under his wing,
496
00:35:46,625 --> 00:35:49,917
and challenges Joe to
question all of his assumptions
497
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:51,875
about the entire universe.
498
00:35:53,083 --> 00:35:54,542
So he gave me all the ideas.
499
00:35:54,625 --> 00:35:56,101
And part of it was cool,
'cause it was like,
500
00:35:56,125 --> 00:35:57,250
"Oh, now I'm like Nancy."
501
00:35:57,333 --> 00:35:59,458
Like,
he's downloading all the ideas to me
502
00:35:59,542 --> 00:36:01,351
and I'm gonna, like,
turn this into something, you know.
503
00:36:01,375 --> 00:36:02,685
So she would
turn it into modules,
504
00:36:02,709 --> 00:36:04,229
and I was gonna
turn this into a movie.
505
00:36:10,834 --> 00:36:13,083
Mm-hmm.
506
00:36:18,166 --> 00:36:19,583
I'm in heaven.
507
00:36:19,667 --> 00:36:22,291
We're doing an EM in a movie,
508
00:36:22,375 --> 00:36:24,625
which is all I
ever wanted to do.
509
00:36:35,417 --> 00:36:37,333
I suppose I was like this
510
00:36:37,417 --> 00:36:39,250
very eager student.
511
00:36:39,333 --> 00:36:41,542
So for seven years of my life,
512
00:36:41,625 --> 00:36:44,166
I call him every single day.
513
00:36:49,750 --> 00:36:51,166
Hello.
514
00:36:51,750 --> 00:36:52,875
- Hi. - Hi!
515
00:36:52,959 --> 00:36:54,083
How's it going there?
516
00:37:10,625 --> 00:37:11,750
Correct.
517
00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:14,959
Right. Is that...
518
00:37:36,542 --> 00:37:37,542
Yeah.
519
00:37:39,291 --> 00:37:42,000
I felt that
there was a closeness.
520
00:37:42,083 --> 00:37:45,250
You know,
the highest IQ in the world is telling you
521
00:37:45,333 --> 00:37:46,959
that you're the one.
522
00:37:47,041 --> 00:37:49,291
You're smart enough to get me.
523
00:37:49,375 --> 00:37:52,583
That's... I don't know. It
could be pretty intoxicating.
524
00:37:52,667 --> 00:37:54,917
Nancy said to me,
"It's extraordinary,
525
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,184
this relationship you have with
Keith." And I was like, "Why?"
526
00:37:57,208 --> 00:37:59,417
She says,
"'Cause you're his only male friend."
527
00:37:59,500 --> 00:38:01,351
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
528
00:38:03,834 --> 00:38:05,714
I have the
Vanguard. I have the Prefect.
529
00:38:05,750 --> 00:38:08,333
- I have Sarah, my business partner.
- Namaste.
530
00:38:08,417 --> 00:38:09,976
I have all these people that,
like,
531
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:11,680
anytime I need anything,
I'll say, "Listen.
532
00:38:11,709 --> 00:38:13,429
Hey,
can I talk something through with you?"
533
00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:16,083
They'll say, "Of course you can.
Let's go for a walk." You know?
534
00:38:20,291 --> 00:38:22,458
Actually,
let's have everybody stand up for a second.
535
00:38:22,542 --> 00:38:24,792
...For the first time in my life,
536
00:38:24,875 --> 00:38:26,667
I had the feeling of like,
537
00:38:26,750 --> 00:38:28,792
I am with me, and I love me,
538
00:38:28,875 --> 00:38:30,115
and I remember just being like,
539
00:38:30,166 --> 00:38:32,375
"Oh,
my God. This is what self-love is."
540
00:38:33,792 --> 00:38:35,333
This feeling is the thing
541
00:38:35,417 --> 00:38:38,333
every single human
being in the world wants.
542
00:38:38,417 --> 00:38:40,583
It's priceless.
543
00:39:15,500 --> 00:39:17,583
Right.
544
00:39:19,709 --> 00:39:21,149
You know, like...
545
00:39:30,417 --> 00:39:33,125
Yeah. Yeah.
546
00:39:54,500 --> 00:39:56,250
When Bonnie leaves in 2017,
547
00:39:56,333 --> 00:39:58,667
I'm like,
"What the fuck am I gonna do?"
548
00:39:59,875 --> 00:40:02,417
If I took in what she said,
549
00:40:02,500 --> 00:40:04,625
it was,
it was pretty horrifying.
550
00:40:05,417 --> 00:40:07,625
Because I'd have to question...
551
00:40:07,709 --> 00:40:09,250
Questioning him
552
00:40:09,333 --> 00:40:12,208
felt like I'd question
everything about myself.
553
00:40:12,291 --> 00:40:14,125
And I wanted her just to stop.
554
00:40:14,208 --> 00:40:16,448
Like, "Can we stop? Can we
not talk about this right now?
555
00:40:16,500 --> 00:40:18,542
Can we,
can we talk about it some other time?"
556
00:40:18,625 --> 00:40:20,208
And she was insistent.
557
00:40:20,875 --> 00:40:22,291
I was like, constantly,
558
00:40:22,375 --> 00:40:24,055
every day,
trying to get him to understand.
559
00:40:24,125 --> 00:40:25,417
Putting evidence
in front of him,
560
00:40:25,500 --> 00:40:29,834
begging him to listen,
begging him to read cult books.
561
00:40:29,917 --> 00:40:32,250
He begged me to
not keep pushing him,
562
00:40:32,333 --> 00:40:35,458
and to let him have
his own process with it.
563
00:40:35,542 --> 00:40:38,125
But he was still
talking to Keith.
564
00:40:38,208 --> 00:40:42,250
And I was like,
"Fuck." You know, like, all...
565
00:40:42,333 --> 00:40:45,625
All the work,
all the progress that I was...
566
00:40:45,709 --> 00:40:47,792
trying to make with him would then be,
like,
567
00:40:47,875 --> 00:40:49,333
flushed down the toilet.
568
00:41:58,792 --> 00:42:00,834
You know what Bonnie said to me?
569
00:42:00,917 --> 00:42:04,041
Like, "What will it take?" I said,
"Data."
570
00:42:08,792 --> 00:42:10,166
Soon after I left,
571
00:42:10,250 --> 00:42:13,333
another person
left and came to LA,
572
00:42:13,417 --> 00:42:15,667
and we started talking
about everything.
573
00:42:15,750 --> 00:42:18,667
She gave me information
about things that she'd seen
574
00:42:18,750 --> 00:42:20,583
that were very concerning.
575
00:42:22,083 --> 00:42:24,500
And she agreed to talk to Mark.
576
00:42:46,750 --> 00:42:47,750
Mm-hmm.
577
00:44:04,792 --> 00:44:07,542
I'm like,
"What the fuck is going on here?"
578
00:44:08,166 --> 00:44:09,458
There's something wrong.
579
00:44:09,542 --> 00:44:13,083
Keith is amazing,
but something is fucked up.
580
00:44:26,959 --> 00:44:27,959
Mm!
581
00:44:36,417 --> 00:44:37,500
Mm-hmm.
582
00:44:40,041 --> 00:44:41,291
Mm-hmm.
583
00:44:46,750 --> 00:44:49,166
Mm-hmm.
584
00:44:49,250 --> 00:44:51,458
Mm-hmm.
585
00:44:51,542 --> 00:44:52,625
Mm-hmm.
586
00:45:08,083 --> 00:45:09,458
Yep.
587
00:45:10,750 --> 00:45:12,291
Yep.
588
00:45:18,667 --> 00:45:20,208
It was very hard,
589
00:45:20,291 --> 00:45:23,208
because you're going
up against the leader.
590
00:45:23,291 --> 00:45:26,625
And in this case,
a leader who had spent 12 years
591
00:45:26,709 --> 00:45:29,834
working his way into my psyche.
592
00:46:24,166 --> 00:46:25,500
Yep.
593
00:46:25,583 --> 00:46:27,834
- Boom. There you go. Yeah.
- Oh, yeah. That felt good.
594
00:46:28,667 --> 00:46:29,792
Right.
595
00:46:55,375 --> 00:46:56,542
Um...
596
00:47:06,667 --> 00:47:09,208
Yes, yeah.
597
00:47:32,500 --> 00:47:33,500
I... I...
598
00:47:39,583 --> 00:47:42,041
You feel
like you're going crazy.
599
00:47:42,125 --> 00:47:44,792
He got my best friend
to basically spy on me.
600
00:47:45,959 --> 00:47:48,333
Every single thing that
I was suspecting him of,
601
00:47:48,417 --> 00:47:50,125
I kept on explaining it away,
602
00:47:50,208 --> 00:47:52,041
like,
maybe there's a good reason.
603
00:47:52,125 --> 00:47:53,667
That day I allowed myself
604
00:47:53,750 --> 00:47:55,917
to like question,
what if there's not?
605
00:48:02,125 --> 00:48:05,333
Uh-huh.
606
00:48:07,291 --> 00:48:08,625
Okay.
607
00:48:13,875 --> 00:48:15,625
Mm-hmm.
608
00:48:16,959 --> 00:48:18,125
Uh-huh.
609
00:48:19,291 --> 00:48:20,542
Mm-hmm.
610
00:50:22,792 --> 00:50:24,583
He's lying to me.
611
00:50:32,417 --> 00:50:34,458
Twelve years of
spending time with him,
612
00:50:34,542 --> 00:50:37,875
thinking that every single
thing that comes out of his mouth
613
00:50:37,959 --> 00:50:39,917
is honest.
614
00:50:47,458 --> 00:50:49,417
Wait, okay, so that's a lie.
615
00:50:50,333 --> 00:50:52,583
What if it's not the only one?
616
00:50:53,542 --> 00:50:57,458
It was like there was
a crack in the dam.
617
00:51:01,291 --> 00:51:03,625
You collapse in a puddle...
618
00:51:04,625 --> 00:51:06,625
of, of horror and shock.
619
00:51:07,750 --> 00:51:09,792
That's waking up.
620
00:51:09,875 --> 00:51:12,208
It's a very,
very deep and disturbing
621
00:51:12,291 --> 00:51:14,000
dark night of the soul.
622
00:51:18,500 --> 00:51:20,250
We went for a hike,
623
00:51:20,333 --> 00:51:22,041
and he said to me,
"My eyes are open,
624
00:51:22,125 --> 00:51:25,125
and I want you to know that I
am loyal to you above them."
625
00:51:26,625 --> 00:51:29,417
And for the first time,
he started asking me questions
626
00:51:29,500 --> 00:51:31,208
about what I thought.
627
00:51:36,166 --> 00:51:37,768
Hello, this is Mark.
628
00:51:37,792 --> 00:51:39,792
Please leave a
message after the beep.
629
00:52:11,041 --> 00:52:12,667
"Dear Keith, Nancy,
630
00:52:12,750 --> 00:52:14,458
"and members of
the executive board,
631
00:52:14,542 --> 00:52:17,583
"as I've expressed in many
different ways over the last years,
632
00:52:17,667 --> 00:52:18,959
"I've had strong aspirations
633
00:52:19,041 --> 00:52:21,834
"to return my focus
and effort to my career.
634
00:52:22,875 --> 00:52:25,417
"As such,
I am resigning from ESP.
635
00:52:26,166 --> 00:52:27,326
"With respect to the centers,
636
00:52:27,375 --> 00:52:29,625
"I will be discussing
my transition with Sarah,
637
00:52:29,709 --> 00:52:31,792
"and I will apprise the
Greens of which coaches
638
00:52:31,875 --> 00:52:33,125
need to be transferred."
639
00:52:34,792 --> 00:52:37,667
It was the point of no return.
640
00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:40,250
And I now understand
I have to tell Sarah.
641
00:52:47,333 --> 00:52:48,667
Mm-hmm.
642
00:54:52,458 --> 00:54:54,208
When we
switched off the recording,
643
00:54:54,291 --> 00:54:57,875
Sarah tells me that
she is in this thing,
644
00:54:57,959 --> 00:55:00,917
that it's called DOS,
and then she tells me,
645
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:02,792
um, "They branded me as well."
646
00:55:02,875 --> 00:55:04,667
And I remember going,
something like, "What?
647
00:55:04,750 --> 00:55:06,583
They b... They did what?"
648
00:55:10,125 --> 00:55:12,250
What the fuck?
649
00:56:40,858 --> 00:56:43,858
Subtitles Diego Moraes(oakislandtk)
www.opensubtitles.org