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ANCHOR 1: Now, remember,
Keith Raniere was arrested
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with five other women,
all part of his inner circle.
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And now, all of the women
have pleaded guilty.
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ANCHOR 2: And do we know
if we'll be hearing
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from any of these women
as witnesses during the trial?
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ANCHOR 1: We don't know yet,
but any of them could testify.
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(CHIRPS)
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NANCY SALZMAN:
I plead guilty to one count
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of racketeering conspiracy.
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And after Keith's trial is over
and he's sentenced,
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I'll get my sentence
from the judge.
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Come on, Mouse.
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-(CLICKS TONGUE)
-(MEWLS)
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(METAL CLANKING)
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NANCY: When I was
first arrested,
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I wasn't allowed to leave
the house at all.
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Recently, I got permission
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to be able to speak
to my family.
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So, at least, Lauren and I,
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we are able to talk
to each other.
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I was told
that this is a privilege.
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I could be in jail.
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This is crazy.
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Imagine you spent... 22 years
trying to build something
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that you fully believed in
and you thought was good,
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and everybody thinks...
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it's the devil's work.
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♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC
PLAYING, FADING) ♪
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♪ ("DREAM STATE"
BY SON LUX PLAYING) ♪
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♪ Days we were young
We took photographs ♪
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♪ Of everything we could see ♪
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♪ We had to run from it
Priest and prophetess ♪
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♪ We were nothing
We would defy ♪
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(VOCALIZES)
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♪ Invisible skin
Where is the world within? ♪
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♪ Invincible skin
It's how we all begin ♪
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♪ (SONG CONCLUDING) ♪
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NANCY: I really have not looked
at this in a very long time.
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It's running,
let's see what's in it.
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Have you ever had an experience
where you were called upon
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to do something
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but you really didn't know
how to do that thing?
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How do you feel when you have
such an experience?
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♪ (MELANCHOLIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
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NANCY: Most people say
"fearful," "insecure,"
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like they're on shaky ground.
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Because we are.
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But children have
that experience all the time.
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And they are forced to come up
with an understanding
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so that they can function
very quickly.
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The beliefs that we formed
when we were small children
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stay with us.
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(STATIC HISSING)
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NANCY: I think the reason
that Keith chose me
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is because of my background.
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I did a lot of work
with patients with chronic pain
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and chronic illness.
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My mother
had a chronic pain problem
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when I was growing up,
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and many times,
my mother was in so much pain
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that she couldn't get out
of bed.
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I always felt so terrible
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when I saw how much pain
my mother was in.
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I remember her crawling.
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And so, I became a nurse.
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Early in my career,
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it was the heyday
of chronic pain clinics.
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So, I started studying
about chronic pain.
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And I started to understand
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that there was a mind-body
connection.
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And I learned to teach people
self-hypnosis techniques,
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and do neuro-linguistic
programming, or NLP.
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NLP is a model
of language patterns
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to create behavioral change.
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I used it in my work
with pain management
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and it was very,
very successful.
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What I found was that I was able
to work with people
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for like six to ten sessions,
they would resolve their issue,
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but like in two years,
or three years,
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they would come back
with another issue
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that was amazingly similar
to the first issue. (CHUCKLES)
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I was always looking
for something that I could use
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to help people create change
that would be permanent.
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And so, most of my career
was trying to find that.
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So, um...
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Keith was trying
to meet me for ten years.
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He wanted me to train
his company
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in neuro-linguistic programming,
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but I actually didn't have
the self-confidence to do it.
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♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
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NANCY: Ten years later,
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both of my kids
had gone away to college.
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I was divorced, I was alone.
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So I decided to meet
Keith Raniere.
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I don't even know
how to describe what it's like
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when you-- you meet someone
like Keith.
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He understood
the human psychodynamic in a way
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that I have never seen anyone
understand it.
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He understood it
and he worked with it.
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We all want to be in sync
with people,
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we wanna feel connected,
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and that's a feeling
that we call rapport.
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And when we're in rapport
with people,
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we have a tendency to feel
an unconscious trust for them.
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In order to establish rapport,
you mirror the other person.
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Like, if you and I are chatting
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and you're speaking
in a certain volume,
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I can mirror that volume,
or match it.
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Yeah, let's suppose you have
some-- someone who's sitting
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and thinking or whatever.
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Suddenly, I'm closer
and everyone sort of sees it
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but the person who's sitting
like this
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will feel more in touch with me
like that...
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NANCY: We fall into
a certain rapport
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when that happens,
Keith was a master of that.
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He told me that he had this idea
for a model
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for behavior change.
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Go into this organization
with four bronze bonuses.
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NANCY: And he said, "You know,
I just thought NLP
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would be a good basis to do
this project that I wanna do."
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He took me into his office
and we were drawing
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charts of perception
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and it was the most compelling
conversation I've ever had.
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♪ (SOFT PIANO MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
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NANCY: We talked for five hours.
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(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
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KEITH RANIERE:
Humility and vulnerability
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is fearlessness.
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If you're completely vulnerable,
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you have nothing to lose.
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-That make sense?
-NANCY: Yeah.
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For several weekends
in a row,
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we would have conversations.
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-You do?
-KEITH: Oh.
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NANCY: As if you're getting shit
for it?
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Sometimes I would cry,
sometimes I would laugh.
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KEITH: So,
what does materialism bring?
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Sometimes
I would be walking around...
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and I would feel like the ground
wasn't steady.
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KEITH: Your sense of self
is different than self-esteem.
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Your sense of self is...
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I realized that
the conversations we had
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had somehow shifted
my perspective.
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And I was far
more positive than I was
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when I met him.
Like, far more positive.
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♪ (MUSIC FADING) ♪
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At a certain point,
I said to him,
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"Can I watch you use
this model?"
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And he said, "What do you mean?"
And I said, "Like on a person.
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Can I, like, watch you use this
on a per--
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Could you get a person
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and let me watch you
do a session?"
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And he said to me,
"You mean other than you?"
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♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
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NANCY: I had never seen anything
like what he did before.
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And I'd never experienced
anything like what he did
before, myself.
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If I could help people
in that short amount of time,
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the way that he does,
I would do anything.
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He said, "If you want me
to mentor you,
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you have to agree
to work with me
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for the rest of your life."
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And I said to him, "Under what
conditions would we not
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work for the rest of our life?"
And he said,
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"If I ever believe that
you are using the curriculum
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in an unethical manner,
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then that would be the end
of our relationship."
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And that's what I signed up for.
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-(SIRENS BLARING)
-(TRAFFIC WHOOSHING)
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♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪
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EMILY SAUL:
Maybe in the beginning,
NXIVM helped people.
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So then
what happened that, like,
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suddenly pushed that envelope?
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There's something in this
that lead Raniere
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to believe that he needed,
you know, followers,
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or that he needed, you know,
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this society
that just really, like,
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enveloped and protected him.
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It's like, was he suddenly there
without realizing it?
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Or was that the goal?
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-Okay.
-♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
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EMILY:
Prosecutors still haven't said
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who their initial witnesses
are gonna be.
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I'm just super curious.
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They could either start, like,
with a bang
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right out of the door,
with, like, a big witness.
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Allison Mack, Lauren Salzman...
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It's also possible
Nancy could testify.
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She's someone
who was very close to him
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and has intimate knowledge
of what was happening.
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Or we could slowly build.
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We know we're getting
Mark Vicente.
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You know, he's one
of the closest men to Keith.
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It'd be a really tough thing
to live with to, like,
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suddenly have your world
fall apart
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and also to have it be like,
"Oh, this person
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I looked up to so much...
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is actually just victimizing
everybody around me."
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♪ (MELANCHOLIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
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MARK VICENTE: I will be
the witness against Raniere,
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facing him for the first time
in about two years.
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I'm terrified.
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If he gets off, then it's back
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to just full-blown
battle stations.
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And then they're coming
after us.
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(TRAIN RUMBLES)
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(DIAL TONE RINGING)
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♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪
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EDUARDO ASUNSOLO:
When we got that call, you know,
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00:12:20,865 --> 00:12:24,243
I never imagined
we would be here right now.
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♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
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EDUARDO:
The next time I talked to Nippy,
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he was scared
like I've never seen him before.
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00:12:33,544 --> 00:12:36,839
And I was his best friend
for a decade.
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00:12:36,922 --> 00:12:39,967
He kept texting me,
"Dude, this is bad.
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You have to hear this."
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(DIAL TONE RINGING)
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EDUARDO: Mark called me.
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The first thing he said is like,
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"This is gonna turn
your world upside down."
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He told me in that phone call
Sarah had a brand.
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And he basically invited me,
in a sense,
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to the campaign
that they were gonna conduct
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to go after Keith.
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And then I called Sarah,
and said, "I'm sorry that
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something like this
happens to you."
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Where I grew up,
if there's women being abused
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and held down,
you run towards where they are.
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-How you doing?
-KEITH: I'm good. How are you?
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Then I flew to Albany
to investigate,
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to talk to Keith,
to talk to Allison,
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to talk to Lauren,
to talk to everyone.
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I found a sorority, I found
things that were not only
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not criminal,
but maybe even good.
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Yes, edgy, but all these women
are women that I respect.
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So I was working on people
that are ready to die
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for a principle.
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And as I practice it,
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-I felt, like, determination.
-KEITH: Very good. Yeah.
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They perceive themselves
going against adversity.
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They perceive themselves
going into the fire.
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EDUARDO: The curriculum of ESP
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that Keith and Nancy
has created...
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My life has been
amazingly bettered by them.
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00:14:04,343 --> 00:14:06,470
You know, Nancy, I don't think
I would be a father
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00:14:06,554 --> 00:14:07,763
if it wasn't for her.
246
00:14:09,098 --> 00:14:10,599
My wife and I,
we're trying to get pregnant,
247
00:14:10,683 --> 00:14:13,227
there was some personal stuff
and physical stuff
248
00:14:13,310 --> 00:14:16,272
and, you know,
she walked us through it and I,
249
00:14:16,897 --> 00:14:18,107
you know, I honestly...
250
00:14:25,990 --> 00:14:28,033
I think, I mean being a dad
is the best thing
251
00:14:28,117 --> 00:14:29,410
that has happened to me and...
252
00:14:30,578 --> 00:14:31,829
I don't think without Nancy
and Keith,
253
00:14:31,912 --> 00:14:34,415
I would be the loving father
and husband that I am,
254
00:14:34,498 --> 00:14:37,001
and there's thousands of people
255
00:14:37,084 --> 00:14:38,460
that would tell you
similar stories.
256
00:14:38,544 --> 00:14:41,964
So, when these people started
getting arrested...
257
00:14:42,047 --> 00:14:45,426
Um, I don't know, it's like...
258
00:14:46,510 --> 00:14:48,679
it's like,
the whole world is upside down.
259
00:14:51,557 --> 00:14:53,434
(BIRDS CHIRPING)
260
00:14:57,563 --> 00:15:00,024
♪ (MUSIC FADING) ♪
261
00:15:02,484 --> 00:15:06,614
NANCY: After a year
of home confinement,
262
00:15:06,697 --> 00:15:10,951
I'm in a situation
where I have a curfew.
263
00:15:12,786 --> 00:15:15,205
I'm allowed to leave the house
from 7:00 in the morning
264
00:15:15,289 --> 00:15:16,624
until 9:00 at night.
265
00:15:18,459 --> 00:15:21,211
But I can't go anywhere
without asking permission.
266
00:15:25,382 --> 00:15:27,134
So, we're going to my old house.
267
00:15:28,093 --> 00:15:31,263
I lived in this house for, uh...
268
00:15:31,347 --> 00:15:33,474
What did I live there for?
Thirteen years.
269
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,270
(CAR ENGINE DECELERATING)
270
00:15:38,354 --> 00:15:40,064
(KEYS JINGLING)
271
00:15:40,147 --> 00:15:42,775
(DOG BARKING IN DISTANCE)
272
00:15:45,361 --> 00:15:49,281
-(DOOR CLOSING)
-I used to see my a.m. clients
in this room.
273
00:15:52,743 --> 00:15:55,746
♪ (WISTFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
274
00:15:55,829 --> 00:15:57,164
(SIGHS)
275
00:15:57,247 --> 00:15:59,291
-Hiya.
-(NANCY CHUCKLES)
276
00:15:59,375 --> 00:16:00,793
NXIVM MEMBER 1:
That's a problem.
277
00:16:00,876 --> 00:16:03,379
With the statistics
and all the other stuff.
278
00:16:03,462 --> 00:16:05,673
I get a whole load of shit
from Twitter.
279
00:16:06,632 --> 00:16:08,467
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
280
00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:09,718
It's the first time
I've seen it.
281
00:16:09,802 --> 00:16:11,595
-Did I write that?
-NXIVM MEMBER 2: You wrote that.
282
00:16:11,679 --> 00:16:13,222
I don't say that, but...
283
00:16:13,305 --> 00:16:16,433
♪ (EMOTIONAL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
284
00:16:21,230 --> 00:16:25,859
NANCY: Never in a million years
would I have ever imagined
285
00:16:25,943 --> 00:16:30,114
the life I lived,
being the prefect of ESP.
286
00:16:32,116 --> 00:16:33,951
♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
287
00:16:34,034 --> 00:16:36,995
NANCY: He was very kind
in the beginning,
288
00:16:37,079 --> 00:16:39,373
and he gave me everything
I wanted.
289
00:16:40,457 --> 00:16:42,376
Like, he gave me a company.
290
00:16:43,669 --> 00:16:46,255
He gave me tools.
291
00:16:46,338 --> 00:16:49,091
He let me teach,
he let me do everything I loved.
292
00:16:49,174 --> 00:16:50,634
This is the world the way
I want it,
293
00:16:50,718 --> 00:16:52,553
and this is the world
the way it is.
294
00:16:52,636 --> 00:16:55,347
If these line up,
remember what we call that?
295
00:16:57,182 --> 00:16:58,684
(AUDIENCE CHUCKLING)
296
00:16:58,767 --> 00:17:01,937
NANCY: We started really small
with 20 students
297
00:17:02,020 --> 00:17:04,732
in my old office in Albany.
298
00:17:04,815 --> 00:17:08,152
And we had 100 students
within a month.
299
00:17:08,235 --> 00:17:09,236
Okay.
300
00:17:13,907 --> 00:17:15,159
How about we start
with parasites?
301
00:17:15,242 --> 00:17:17,244
I really believed
in the education.
302
00:17:18,537 --> 00:17:20,956
And that's why my daughters
joined our organization.
303
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:23,709
So, we wanna grow
the organization.
304
00:17:23,792 --> 00:17:26,754
So what starts out, maybe,
with ten people,
305
00:17:26,837 --> 00:17:29,339
becomes 100, becomes 1000.
306
00:17:29,423 --> 00:17:31,967
NANCY: We have opened up centers
all over the world.
307
00:17:32,718 --> 00:17:35,304
(AUDIENCE CHEERING, APPLAUDING)
308
00:17:35,387 --> 00:17:37,598
(AUDIENCE CHEERING, APPLAUDING)
309
00:17:37,681 --> 00:17:39,558
(ALEX BETANCOURT
SPEAKING IN SPANISH)
310
00:17:49,610 --> 00:17:52,112
-(INDISTINCT)
-(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
311
00:17:52,196 --> 00:17:55,783
NANCY: (IN ENGLISH)
When I first went
to Mexico, on day two,
312
00:17:55,866 --> 00:17:57,326
Alex says to me,
313
00:17:57,409 --> 00:17:58,827
"I don't wanna hurt
your feelings
314
00:17:58,911 --> 00:18:00,412
but I need to tell you
something
315
00:18:00,496 --> 00:18:02,372
because I really want you
to be successful
316
00:18:02,456 --> 00:18:03,665
here in Mexico."
317
00:18:03,749 --> 00:18:06,126
And he says, "Honestly...
318
00:18:07,252 --> 00:18:09,421
you look like
a middle-class American woman."
319
00:18:10,589 --> 00:18:12,257
And I say,
320
00:18:12,341 --> 00:18:16,428
"Alex, I am a middle-class
American woman."
321
00:18:18,388 --> 00:18:21,600
And he says,
"I have to take you shopping."
322
00:18:23,352 --> 00:18:25,896
So, he puts me
in a dressing room with a woman,
323
00:18:25,979 --> 00:18:30,567
who starts handing me 2200
and 2500-dollar jackets.
324
00:18:31,777 --> 00:18:33,153
I just started my company,
325
00:18:33,237 --> 00:18:36,156
I'm having a panic attack
in the dressing room.
326
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:40,077
I remember, I called Keith
and Keith says,
327
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:44,206
"Nancy, if Alex says you need
to spend 20,000 dollars
328
00:18:44,289 --> 00:18:47,960
on a wardrobe, you spend
20,000 dollars on a wardrobe."
329
00:18:48,043 --> 00:18:49,586
And I'm like...
330
00:18:49,670 --> 00:18:51,964
Like, I'm a little Jewish girl
from New Jersey,
331
00:18:52,047 --> 00:18:54,132
whose mother taught her
how to shop. (CHUCKLES)
332
00:18:55,509 --> 00:18:58,971
Five suits, 20,000 dollars.
I buy 'em.
333
00:18:59,054 --> 00:19:02,140
-(CAMERA SHUTTER CLICKING)
-♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
334
00:19:02,224 --> 00:19:05,060
NANCY: I wanted to affect
as many people as I could,
335
00:19:05,144 --> 00:19:07,437
and I got really busy with that.
336
00:19:07,521 --> 00:19:09,398
I slept three
or four hours a day.
337
00:19:09,481 --> 00:19:10,566
(ALARM BEEPS)
338
00:19:12,901 --> 00:19:15,404
For 20 years, I had studied
human potential
339
00:19:15,487 --> 00:19:18,907
and I couldn't understand
what would motivate people
340
00:19:18,991 --> 00:19:20,617
to want to change.
341
00:19:20,701 --> 00:19:21,910
And this is what's
very different
342
00:19:21,994 --> 00:19:23,036
about our attack.
343
00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:25,163
We are going all the way down.
344
00:19:25,247 --> 00:19:27,916
Down here we call this
the "deep structure."
345
00:19:32,546 --> 00:19:35,841
And we have been
an organization that is maturing
346
00:19:35,924 --> 00:19:40,053
and a stability,
that I think can withstand
347
00:19:40,137 --> 00:19:42,472
what comes against us
in the world.
348
00:19:44,141 --> 00:19:46,184
This is funny,
this is in O magazine,
349
00:19:46,268 --> 00:19:48,937
I coached the art director.
350
00:19:49,021 --> 00:19:51,273
It says, "Nancy Salzman,
president of NXIVM Corp,
351
00:19:51,356 --> 00:19:54,109
offers the coaching
and motivational workshops."
352
00:19:55,569 --> 00:19:56,778
Keith wanted us
353
00:19:56,862 --> 00:19:59,448
to get to the highest areas
of entertainment.
354
00:20:00,032 --> 00:20:02,075
(AUDIENCE CHEERING)
355
00:20:02,159 --> 00:20:04,244
NANCY: The highest areas
of government.
356
00:20:04,328 --> 00:20:07,039
Hello.
My name is Emiliano Salinas.
357
00:20:07,122 --> 00:20:09,166
I come from a political family.
358
00:20:09,249 --> 00:20:12,628
I mean you have so much,
it's such a rich country...
359
00:20:12,711 --> 00:20:16,298
The highest level
of every area of human endeavor.
360
00:20:17,341 --> 00:20:18,342
Thank you.
361
00:20:19,134 --> 00:20:20,677
Thank you.
362
00:20:20,761 --> 00:20:24,389
NANCY: I thought that if people
could understand each other
363
00:20:24,473 --> 00:20:28,810
and the human struggle,
we could resolve any problems.
364
00:20:28,894 --> 00:20:30,812
Any problems in the world.
365
00:20:30,896 --> 00:20:33,941
-(AUDIENCE APPLAUDS)
-AUDIENCE MEMBER: Whoo!
366
00:20:35,525 --> 00:20:37,402
NANCY: And for people to believe
367
00:20:37,486 --> 00:20:40,447
it was just a big scam
of a sex cult.
368
00:20:44,034 --> 00:20:46,495
It's so horrendous.
369
00:20:46,578 --> 00:20:49,331
♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪
370
00:20:49,414 --> 00:20:50,999
(SIRENS WAILING)
371
00:20:54,962 --> 00:20:56,755
(KEYBOARD CLATTERING)
372
00:20:59,091 --> 00:21:01,969
MARC AGNIFILO: I mean this case
is a highly sexual case.
373
00:21:02,052 --> 00:21:06,306
There's a lot of very intense
sexual conversations.
374
00:21:08,183 --> 00:21:10,727
I'm really worried
about people pre-judging Keith
375
00:21:10,811 --> 00:21:12,104
because of his lifestyle.
376
00:21:14,731 --> 00:21:16,900
I need jurors to come into this
with an open heart
377
00:21:16,984 --> 00:21:18,235
and listen to this story.
378
00:21:21,655 --> 00:21:23,740
(CAR ENGINE HUMMING)
379
00:21:23,824 --> 00:21:28,412
MARC: Keith said something today
that I thought was very smart.
380
00:21:28,996 --> 00:21:30,497
He's like, you know,
381
00:21:30,580 --> 00:21:34,167
he's like, "This is like a--
like a family feud,
382
00:21:34,251 --> 00:21:37,421
and everything
that the government says is bad
383
00:21:37,504 --> 00:21:41,008
was all us doing stuff
to each other.
384
00:21:41,091 --> 00:21:42,676
You know? I mean we didn't--
385
00:21:42,759 --> 00:21:45,012
You know,
we didn't hurt anybody else.
386
00:21:46,304 --> 00:21:49,182
And then there was a division
within the family.
387
00:21:50,308 --> 00:21:53,061
And now, the family
is destroyed."
388
00:21:53,145 --> 00:21:55,022
♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
389
00:21:55,105 --> 00:21:57,858
MARC:
This trial's kinda terrifying
390
00:21:57,941 --> 00:22:00,318
because the stakes are so high.
391
00:22:01,236 --> 00:22:03,280
I feel his life is in my hands.
392
00:22:03,363 --> 00:22:05,532
I feel like his life's work
is in my hands.
393
00:22:07,868 --> 00:22:10,495
I only got one chance
to do this.
394
00:22:10,579 --> 00:22:13,540
And I just have to do it
a hundred percent.
395
00:22:13,623 --> 00:22:14,791
(SENSOR BEEPS)
396
00:22:16,835 --> 00:22:18,879
♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
397
00:22:19,921 --> 00:22:22,007
MOIRA PENZA: There has not
been a case
398
00:22:22,090 --> 00:22:23,508
that measures up to this
399
00:22:23,592 --> 00:22:26,094
in terms
of personal importance to me.
400
00:22:27,721 --> 00:22:32,059
I believe that Keith Raniere
is a very dangerous man.
401
00:22:32,142 --> 00:22:34,978
He victimized so many people.
402
00:22:35,062 --> 00:22:37,981
It was really
the psychological torture
403
00:22:38,065 --> 00:22:43,070
of women in a systemic fashion
for decades.
404
00:22:43,153 --> 00:22:46,740
I really think that this case
can shine a light
405
00:22:46,823 --> 00:22:48,617
on some really dark things
406
00:22:48,700 --> 00:22:50,744
that had happened
for a very long time.
407
00:22:52,496 --> 00:22:55,499
♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
408
00:23:03,465 --> 00:23:04,716
NEWS REPORTER 1:
This is the beginning
409
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,551
of what is turning out
to be one of
410
00:23:06,635 --> 00:23:08,136
the most sensational trials
411
00:23:08,220 --> 00:23:10,555
as prosecutors paint Keith
as a predator
412
00:23:10,639 --> 00:23:12,015
who preyed on women.
413
00:23:12,933 --> 00:23:14,142
(SPEAKS IN SPANISH)
414
00:23:17,896 --> 00:23:20,107
NEWS REPORTER 2: (IN ENGLISH)
Keith Raniere is facing a total
415
00:23:20,190 --> 00:23:21,358
of seven charges.
416
00:23:21,441 --> 00:23:25,862
(NEWS REPORTER 3
SPEAKING SPANISH)
417
00:23:28,573 --> 00:23:31,118
NEWS REPORTER 4: (IN ENGLISH)
Prosecutors say
the organization is actually
418
00:23:31,201 --> 00:23:34,621
a cult involved sex slavery,
branding its members,
419
00:23:34,704 --> 00:23:36,123
and recruiting celebrities.
420
00:23:36,206 --> 00:23:38,667
We hear about some of these
things happening sometimes
421
00:23:38,750 --> 00:23:40,168
and we think,
"Oh, it's so horrifying.
422
00:23:40,252 --> 00:23:41,503
This is awful.
How does this happen?"
423
00:23:41,586 --> 00:23:44,172
But it doesn't necessarily mean
it's criminal.
424
00:23:44,256 --> 00:23:46,341
Coercion,
that's what really important
425
00:23:46,424 --> 00:23:47,676
from a legal perspective.
426
00:23:49,928 --> 00:23:52,055
EMILY: You just need one person
for a hung jury.
427
00:23:52,139 --> 00:23:54,266
I don't know what the defense
is thinking but sometimes
428
00:23:54,349 --> 00:23:56,017
that's all you can hope for.
429
00:23:56,101 --> 00:23:57,519
We'll just see what happens.
430
00:23:59,229 --> 00:24:02,816
♪ (MUSIC FADING) ♪
431
00:24:02,899 --> 00:24:05,694
NIPPY AMES: So yeah, we're here,
day one, trial.
432
00:24:05,777 --> 00:24:07,487
I'm just kind of interested
in the process
433
00:24:07,571 --> 00:24:10,198
as well as what
the, uh, defense is gonna try.
434
00:24:12,492 --> 00:24:14,452
His supporters
were all there today.
435
00:24:14,536 --> 00:24:17,080
Whatever happens,
they're gonna make work
436
00:24:17,164 --> 00:24:18,248
for their narrative.
437
00:24:18,331 --> 00:24:20,000
They're just gonna go,
"See, we told you,
438
00:24:20,083 --> 00:24:21,334
they're out to railroad him."
439
00:24:22,961 --> 00:24:25,422
♪ (TENSE MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪
440
00:24:57,954 --> 00:24:59,748
JUDGE GARAUFIS: Ms. Hajjar,
you may proceed
441
00:24:59,831 --> 00:25:01,291
with the government's
opening statement.
442
00:25:03,627 --> 00:25:05,253
TANYA HAJJAR: The defendant,
Keith Raniere,
443
00:25:05,337 --> 00:25:08,882
claimed to be a leader.
But he was a con man.
444
00:25:08,965 --> 00:25:10,050
He targeted people
445
00:25:10,133 --> 00:25:12,761
who were looking
to improve their lives.
446
00:25:12,844 --> 00:25:15,889
He drew them in slowly
with promises of success,
447
00:25:15,972 --> 00:25:18,475
money, better relationships.
448
00:25:18,558 --> 00:25:22,479
And once he gained their trust,
he exploited it.
449
00:25:22,562 --> 00:25:25,357
The defendant was the leader
of a criminal organization
450
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:26,733
in Upstate New York.
451
00:25:26,816 --> 00:25:30,654
And he relied on an inner circle
of followers who supported him
452
00:25:30,737 --> 00:25:34,574
and promoted him,
and committed crimes for him.
453
00:25:34,658 --> 00:25:37,744
He said this was all about
women's empowerment.
454
00:25:37,827 --> 00:25:40,789
But during this trial,
the evidence will show
455
00:25:40,872 --> 00:25:43,416
that what the defendant wanted
had nothing to do
456
00:25:43,500 --> 00:25:46,503
with empowering women
and had everything to do
457
00:25:46,586 --> 00:25:48,296
with enslaving them.
458
00:25:48,380 --> 00:25:50,674
♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
459
00:25:50,757 --> 00:25:52,467
MARC:
Seventeen thousand people
460
00:25:52,550 --> 00:25:53,635
took NXIVM courses.
461
00:25:54,719 --> 00:25:59,474
Successful people, CEOs,
executives, actors.
462
00:25:59,557 --> 00:26:02,727
And not because
they were bamboozled or fooled.
463
00:26:02,811 --> 00:26:05,605
They took them because they got
something out of them.
464
00:26:07,107 --> 00:26:08,817
There's going to be evidence
Keith Raniere
465
00:26:08,900 --> 00:26:12,570
had multiple intimate partners
over a very long period of time.
466
00:26:14,114 --> 00:26:16,408
And you might say,
"I don't like that.
467
00:26:17,158 --> 00:26:18,743
I think it's morally wrong."
468
00:26:19,953 --> 00:26:21,788
You're absolutely entitled
to that opinion
469
00:26:21,871 --> 00:26:23,623
but that's not
one of the charges.
470
00:26:25,667 --> 00:26:28,169
You're gonna find parts
of this case distasteful
471
00:26:28,253 --> 00:26:30,672
and inconsistent
with your own morality.
472
00:26:31,464 --> 00:26:32,716
And that's okay.
473
00:26:32,799 --> 00:26:36,136
You see, I don't have to defend
everything to win this case.
474
00:26:37,470 --> 00:26:40,682
But one thing I am gonna defend
is his intentions.
475
00:26:41,766 --> 00:26:43,727
I'm gonna defend his good faith.
476
00:26:46,479 --> 00:26:48,481
♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪
477
00:26:50,859 --> 00:26:52,736
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
478
00:27:02,746 --> 00:27:05,957
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
479
00:27:06,041 --> 00:27:08,752
Agnifilo seems to have the mind
480
00:27:08,835 --> 00:27:10,879
where he can take things
out of context
481
00:27:10,962 --> 00:27:13,381
and water you down
in content points
482
00:27:13,465 --> 00:27:16,676
and forget that this is someone
with an agenda
483
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,219
that's clandestine.
484
00:27:18,303 --> 00:27:20,221
So, yeah,
he basically preempts everyone,
485
00:27:20,305 --> 00:27:22,724
admits that there's gonna be
salacious stuff coming.
486
00:27:22,807 --> 00:27:28,146
I think in a hopes to disarm
or normalize egregious behavior,
487
00:27:28,229 --> 00:27:30,357
I can see how he might convince
the jury.
488
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,275
You can see how people get off.
489
00:27:33,068 --> 00:27:34,069
You know?
490
00:27:35,779 --> 00:27:38,239
♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
491
00:27:38,323 --> 00:27:41,326
JUDGE GARAUFIS: The government
may call its first witness.
492
00:27:41,409 --> 00:27:42,494
MOIRA: The government calls
493
00:27:42,577 --> 00:27:45,121
the witness who'll be identified
as Sylvie.
494
00:27:46,456 --> 00:27:49,250
What was really important
about Sylvie as a first witness
495
00:27:49,334 --> 00:27:54,255
is we got right to the heart
of the allegations about DOS,
496
00:27:54,339 --> 00:27:57,967
which is Sylvie
being brought into
497
00:27:58,051 --> 00:28:01,554
what she believes to be
a women's empowerment group
498
00:28:01,638 --> 00:28:06,476
and how very quickly it turned
so very dark and disturbing.
499
00:28:08,895 --> 00:28:11,439
Okay, Sylvie, how long
were you a part
500
00:28:11,523 --> 00:28:13,733
of the organization named
NXIVM?
501
00:28:13,817 --> 00:28:15,110
Thirteen years.
502
00:28:15,485 --> 00:28:19,697
(CHEERING)
503
00:28:21,699 --> 00:28:24,244
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
504
00:28:24,953 --> 00:28:26,413
KEITH: Till next year.
505
00:28:26,496 --> 00:28:28,540
-SYLVIE: Next year,
I'm gonna beef up.
-NANCY: We're gonna feed you.
506
00:28:28,623 --> 00:28:30,083
-Yeah.
-(BOTH LAUGH)
507
00:28:30,166 --> 00:28:33,962
Even... even an extra pound
makes a difference.
508
00:28:34,045 --> 00:28:35,380
We will train you.
509
00:28:35,463 --> 00:28:38,133
SYLVIE: Yes. I really wanna--
No, I do really wanna do that.
510
00:28:38,216 --> 00:28:39,426
Okay.
511
00:28:39,509 --> 00:28:42,220
-SYLVIE: Sick. Let's do it.
-♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
512
00:28:42,303 --> 00:28:43,680
SYLVIE: Growing up,
513
00:28:43,763 --> 00:28:46,224
-I always wanted
to be an equestrian.
-(HORSE WHINNIES)
514
00:28:46,307 --> 00:28:50,186
SYLVIE:
At a competition in Helsinki,
I met Clare Bronfman,
515
00:28:50,270 --> 00:28:52,188
who was an elite rider
at the time.
516
00:28:54,691 --> 00:28:56,901
Clare encouraged me to take
the curriculum.
517
00:28:56,985 --> 00:29:00,530
And in my mind, I thought
I could become a coach.
518
00:29:00,613 --> 00:29:03,116
That would show Clare
that I was committed
to my growth
519
00:29:03,199 --> 00:29:05,368
and potentially put me
in her good favor.
520
00:29:06,786 --> 00:29:10,248
So, I signed up to take
the five-day intensive.
521
00:29:10,331 --> 00:29:11,666
♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
522
00:29:11,749 --> 00:29:14,586
SYLVIE: The first day
was quite overwhelming for me.
523
00:29:14,669 --> 00:29:17,172
The first thing you see
when you walk in the door
524
00:29:17,255 --> 00:29:19,883
are these rather large pictures
of Keith Raniere
525
00:29:19,966 --> 00:29:21,259
and Nancy Sulzman.
526
00:29:23,678 --> 00:29:26,848
Everyone was very enthusiastic
about Keith.
527
00:29:26,931 --> 00:29:30,602
That kind of idealization
of any one individual
528
00:29:30,685 --> 00:29:34,606
was so far outside anything
I've ever experienced before.
529
00:29:37,817 --> 00:29:38,818
MOIRA: Okay, Sylvie,
530
00:29:38,902 --> 00:29:41,321
are you familiar
with this document?
531
00:29:41,404 --> 00:29:43,823
SYLVIE: Yeah,
that's the mission statement.
532
00:29:45,158 --> 00:29:49,454
(NXIVM MEMBERS
READING IN UNISON)
533
00:30:01,382 --> 00:30:03,927
SYLVIE: This was something
that was taught a lot.
534
00:30:04,010 --> 00:30:07,722
The idea is that there is really
no such thing as victims
535
00:30:07,805 --> 00:30:11,392
and anything that happens to you
is created by you.
536
00:30:12,644 --> 00:30:14,812
In the entire organization,
you have this concept
537
00:30:14,896 --> 00:30:16,064
of being at cause.
538
00:30:18,942 --> 00:30:21,528
Which is the main concept
539
00:30:21,611 --> 00:30:24,030
for it to work the way
it does.
540
00:30:24,113 --> 00:30:27,158
It's like you are responsible,
not only responsible
541
00:30:27,242 --> 00:30:29,536
but you're at cause
in your emotions.
542
00:30:29,619 --> 00:30:31,496
You're at cause in your life.
543
00:30:31,579 --> 00:30:35,124
I am causing my own emotions,
I am not a victim of anybody.
544
00:30:35,208 --> 00:30:37,252
You wanna be a victim?
No, I don't wanna be a victim.
545
00:30:37,335 --> 00:30:38,920
Good.
There's no ultimate victims.
546
00:30:39,003 --> 00:30:40,922
Therefore, I will not choose
to be a victim.
547
00:30:41,005 --> 00:30:42,674
I am committed to my success.
548
00:30:44,676 --> 00:30:48,930
What I was hearing
from so many of the people
549
00:30:49,013 --> 00:30:53,768
that I was speaking to
was this concern
550
00:30:53,851 --> 00:30:57,772
that they had done something
to cause the situation
551
00:30:57,855 --> 00:30:59,899
that they had ended up in
552
00:30:59,983 --> 00:31:04,237
based on the idea
that you're being a victim.
553
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:09,117
Which really was a key tenet
of the NXIVM curriculum.
554
00:31:11,494 --> 00:31:12,537
Okay, Sylvie,
555
00:31:12,620 --> 00:31:15,915
I wanna show you
government exhibit 1005.
556
00:31:15,999 --> 00:31:19,294
Most people scream abuse
and they have no idea
557
00:31:19,377 --> 00:31:21,629
of the morality
of what they are talking about.
558
00:31:21,713 --> 00:31:26,718
A lot of times, the screaming
of abuse is abuse in itself,
559
00:31:26,801 --> 00:31:28,803
'cause we're talking
about abusing abuse.
560
00:31:28,886 --> 00:31:31,598
Because they have no idea
what they are talking about,
561
00:31:31,681 --> 00:31:34,559
there's some
inconvenient thing happening
562
00:31:34,642 --> 00:31:37,478
and they wish it were different
and they yell "abuse."
563
00:31:37,562 --> 00:31:41,107
It is not necessarily abuse
so they abuse.
564
00:31:41,190 --> 00:31:42,775
It's very powerful, right?
565
00:31:44,694 --> 00:31:45,987
MOIRA: Was that type of concept
566
00:31:46,070 --> 00:31:48,072
something
that you were familiar with?
567
00:31:48,156 --> 00:31:49,824
SYLVIE: Yeah. Definitely.
568
00:31:49,907 --> 00:31:51,784
MOIRA: And how did you
understand it?
569
00:31:51,868 --> 00:31:54,370
SYLVIE: That anything that
happened to you
570
00:31:54,454 --> 00:31:56,080
is your own fault.
571
00:31:56,164 --> 00:31:57,790
And if you call it abuse,
572
00:31:57,874 --> 00:32:00,501
then you're just trying
to get out of the responsibility
573
00:32:00,585 --> 00:32:02,629
that it was your fault somehow.
574
00:32:02,712 --> 00:32:04,505
That women
are kind of yelling "abuse"
575
00:32:04,589 --> 00:32:06,257
and wanting to be victims.
576
00:32:07,425 --> 00:32:09,594
MOIRA: Do you believe that
that type of teaching
577
00:32:09,677 --> 00:32:12,639
impacted you in any way
in the decisions you made?
578
00:32:12,722 --> 00:32:14,140
SYLVIE: Definitely.
579
00:32:14,223 --> 00:32:17,185
I just felt like
I couldn't trust myself...
580
00:32:17,268 --> 00:32:19,354
with what I thought
was right and wrong.
581
00:32:22,565 --> 00:32:25,234
MOIRA: Okay, Sylvie,
did a fellow NXIVM member
582
00:32:25,318 --> 00:32:28,488
approach you about participating
in a secret project?
583
00:32:29,072 --> 00:32:30,323
SYLVIE: Yes.
584
00:32:30,406 --> 00:32:33,326
She said to me,
"You seem really unhappy."
585
00:32:33,409 --> 00:32:36,162
She told me that
she had this special project
586
00:32:36,245 --> 00:32:40,124
and that it had nothing to do
with ESP or NXIVM.
587
00:32:40,208 --> 00:32:42,543
It was something
that could really help me.
588
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,422
She was someone that I felt
I could trust.
589
00:32:47,507 --> 00:32:49,133
But she couldn't tell me
what it was
590
00:32:49,217 --> 00:32:51,844
unless I was willing
to provide some collateral.
591
00:32:53,638 --> 00:32:56,265
♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
592
00:32:59,018 --> 00:33:00,770
EMILY: So, she tries
to work out, like,
593
00:33:00,853 --> 00:33:03,564
collateral
that's damaging enough.
594
00:33:03,648 --> 00:33:07,068
And finally, they agree that
it would be damaging enough
595
00:33:07,151 --> 00:33:09,987
for her to write a letter
to her family
596
00:33:10,071 --> 00:33:11,364
saying that she is a prostitute.
597
00:33:11,447 --> 00:33:14,826
And she puts lots of details
in that letter.
598
00:33:14,909 --> 00:33:17,036
She-- I mean,
from her testimony,
599
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,497
it sounds like she wrote
a sexually explicit letter
600
00:33:19,580 --> 00:33:23,459
to her parents about, you know,
her days spent as a sex worker.
601
00:33:25,795 --> 00:33:27,797
Her understanding,
so she testified,
602
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,924
was that if she said "no"
603
00:33:30,007 --> 00:33:33,177
to being part of this great,
new, self-help project,
604
00:33:33,261 --> 00:33:34,971
the letter
would be immediately mailed
605
00:33:35,054 --> 00:33:37,348
to her parents because it was
conveniently ready to go.
606
00:33:38,474 --> 00:33:40,393
(CAR HORN BLARING)
607
00:33:40,476 --> 00:33:45,106
First, I was very proud.
I was very proud to be invited.
608
00:33:45,189 --> 00:33:50,027
Until I was threatened
to have my collateral out.
609
00:33:50,111 --> 00:33:54,240
When you choose to be a part
of the vow...
610
00:33:55,658 --> 00:33:58,161
that is your ultimate choice.
611
00:33:58,244 --> 00:34:02,331
Because you are giving a vow
of absolute obedience
612
00:34:03,166 --> 00:34:04,500
and you're giving collateral.
613
00:34:04,584 --> 00:34:07,336
This is--
This is an important piece.
614
00:34:07,420 --> 00:34:09,756
So, any moment in the middle
of the--
615
00:34:09,839 --> 00:34:11,716
Like, "I don't want this.
I don't want it!"
616
00:34:11,799 --> 00:34:14,969
"You chose it.
And we have your collateral."
617
00:34:15,720 --> 00:34:16,721
It's a trick.
618
00:34:18,806 --> 00:34:22,310
I was willing to have
that collateral out
619
00:34:22,393 --> 00:34:25,146
because I was not going
to be blackmailed.
620
00:34:25,229 --> 00:34:27,732
And that's why I left DOS.
621
00:34:29,150 --> 00:34:31,611
MOIRA: Okay, Sylvie,
what happened next?
622
00:34:31,694 --> 00:34:34,947
SYLVIE: Well, shortly after
I turned over my collateral,
623
00:34:35,031 --> 00:34:38,618
I was told my assignment
was to seduce Keith.
624
00:34:38,701 --> 00:34:42,455
And I was like,
"What do you mean, seduce him?"
625
00:34:42,538 --> 00:34:44,791
This is not what I want to do.
626
00:34:44,874 --> 00:34:47,376
But it was the first assignment
for my master,
627
00:34:47,460 --> 00:34:49,754
so I didn't really
have a choice.
628
00:34:50,838 --> 00:34:54,342
Eventually, I sent Keith
a text saying,
629
00:34:54,425 --> 00:34:56,177
"You look hot in your glasses."
630
00:34:56,260 --> 00:35:00,264
And he replied, "You're going
to have to do better than that."
631
00:35:02,141 --> 00:35:04,352
He suggested I send him
a picture.
632
00:35:04,435 --> 00:35:07,021
So, I sent him a picture
of my face.
633
00:35:07,105 --> 00:35:09,982
And then he started prompting me
to make the pictures lower
634
00:35:10,066 --> 00:35:14,695
and lower, suggesting I become
more and more vulnerable.
635
00:35:14,779 --> 00:35:18,658
And before long, I was texting
him nude photos of myself,
636
00:35:19,408 --> 00:35:21,494
posing in provocative ways.
637
00:35:24,330 --> 00:35:27,708
So, any, uh, thoughts,
questions?
638
00:35:27,792 --> 00:35:29,919
STUDENT: I was wondering,
like would you talk a little bit
639
00:35:30,002 --> 00:35:32,839
about the difference
between vulnerability and fear?
640
00:35:32,922 --> 00:35:34,799
KEITH: Vulnerability and fear.
641
00:35:34,882 --> 00:35:37,009
They're bed partners
to some degree.
642
00:35:37,969 --> 00:35:40,179
You learn to separate
'em though.
643
00:35:40,263 --> 00:35:42,682
Whenever you go toward
vulnerability,
644
00:35:42,765 --> 00:35:44,934
this fear comes up.
645
00:35:45,017 --> 00:35:46,561
And you know
how there's some little kids
646
00:35:46,644 --> 00:35:48,563
who like to be scared?
647
00:35:48,646 --> 00:35:51,315
You almost have to do that
with the vulnerability.
648
00:35:51,399 --> 00:35:54,527
You almost have to look at
where you're scared,
649
00:35:54,610 --> 00:35:57,530
because fear itself
is just something in the body.
650
00:35:57,613 --> 00:36:01,784
You can feel tremendous fear
and literally push yourself
651
00:36:01,868 --> 00:36:03,077
to do something.
652
00:36:03,161 --> 00:36:06,330
We think of vulnerability
as being our lowest state of...
653
00:36:07,790 --> 00:36:10,418
(CLICKS TONGUE)
...being able to have anything.
654
00:36:10,501 --> 00:36:12,920
Gosh, if we're completely
vulnerable and naked,
655
00:36:13,004 --> 00:36:16,424
our very soul will be taken
from us
656
00:36:16,507 --> 00:36:19,594
and we will be valueless,
dying alone.
657
00:36:19,677 --> 00:36:21,095
No one will look at us.
658
00:36:21,178 --> 00:36:24,098
We'll have no connection,
no love.
659
00:36:24,181 --> 00:36:27,351
And the truth of the matter is,
the more you become acquainted
660
00:36:27,435 --> 00:36:29,937
with vulnerability,
the more you realize
661
00:36:30,021 --> 00:36:31,480
you're not gonna dissipate.
662
00:36:31,564 --> 00:36:33,149
And then,
it's "Oh, my goodness.
663
00:36:33,232 --> 00:36:34,734
I've been living a myth."
664
00:36:34,817 --> 00:36:36,736
It's a-- So, suddenly,
you realize the very thing
665
00:36:36,819 --> 00:36:39,155
that you're scared of
is the thing that is strength.
666
00:36:40,323 --> 00:36:42,283
♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
667
00:36:42,366 --> 00:36:45,494
MOIRA: Did you want
to send those pictures to him?
668
00:36:45,578 --> 00:36:48,623
SYLVIE: No. (SIGHS)
I had to do it. It was like
669
00:36:48,706 --> 00:36:50,875
this weird assignment,
turned quite dark.
670
00:36:52,084 --> 00:36:54,337
And it was really affecting
my psyche.
671
00:36:55,671 --> 00:36:59,425
I begged Keith for permission
to stop sending the pictures.
672
00:37:00,217 --> 00:37:01,802
He said "Okay,
673
00:37:01,886 --> 00:37:04,388
but the next assignment
will be in person."
674
00:37:06,766 --> 00:37:09,602
When I got to Keith's house,
he was waiting outside.
675
00:37:11,020 --> 00:37:12,813
He took me to his room,
676
00:37:12,897 --> 00:37:16,275
that had a big bed
with dirty white sheets on it.
677
00:37:18,694 --> 00:37:20,613
I was absolutely terrified.
678
00:37:20,696 --> 00:37:22,365
(HEART THUMPING)
679
00:37:22,448 --> 00:37:24,241
SYLVIE:
He told me to get undressed
680
00:37:24,325 --> 00:37:26,744
and to lie back on the bed.
681
00:37:26,827 --> 00:37:27,912
So, I did.
682
00:37:29,163 --> 00:37:30,831
And then he went down on me.
683
00:37:30,915 --> 00:37:33,542
-(HEART THUMPING STOPS)
-♪ (MUSIC INTENSIFIES, FADES) ♪
684
00:37:33,626 --> 00:37:36,587
MOIRA: How did that experience
compare to what you thought
685
00:37:36,671 --> 00:37:38,005
you were joining with DOS?
686
00:37:38,089 --> 00:37:40,508
SYLVIE: It just felt
like a whole different realm
687
00:37:40,591 --> 00:37:42,510
of darkness.
688
00:37:42,593 --> 00:37:46,597
I felt so much shame.
And still do, honestly.
689
00:37:51,602 --> 00:37:53,980
These women who are saying
that they're victims,
690
00:37:54,063 --> 00:37:55,898
you have to see
how do they speak to Keith.
691
00:37:55,982 --> 00:37:57,942
You know, what do they say
to him, you know?
692
00:37:58,025 --> 00:37:59,026
And what do they want?
693
00:37:59,110 --> 00:38:00,611
What do they say
that they wanted?
694
00:38:01,737 --> 00:38:03,280
That's when
the jury's gonna start seeing
695
00:38:03,364 --> 00:38:04,490
what this case is really about.
696
00:38:04,573 --> 00:38:06,575
When we actually get
to the evidence.
697
00:38:12,748 --> 00:38:15,209
♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
698
00:38:15,292 --> 00:38:17,461
MARC: Earlier, you said
you started sending Keith
699
00:38:17,545 --> 00:38:19,213
naked photographs, correct?
700
00:38:20,297 --> 00:38:21,298
SYLVIE: Yes.
701
00:38:21,382 --> 00:38:22,758
MARC: And in this
particular message,
702
00:38:22,842 --> 00:38:25,886
that's you with a naked torso
and under it, you write...
703
00:38:25,970 --> 00:38:28,681
(READS PROMPT)
704
00:38:29,724 --> 00:38:30,766
SYLVIE: That's correct.
705
00:38:31,809 --> 00:38:33,227
MARC: And when you asked him,
706
00:38:33,310 --> 00:38:35,146
"Do you think we can spend time
this week?"
707
00:38:35,229 --> 00:38:37,523
You wanted
to see Keith, correct?
708
00:38:37,606 --> 00:38:40,234
SYLVIE: It looks like
that's what I'm saying, yeah.
709
00:38:40,317 --> 00:38:42,695
MARC: And you agree with me,
you're asking this to Keith
710
00:38:42,778 --> 00:38:44,280
on a pretty regular basis?
711
00:38:44,363 --> 00:38:48,326
SYLVIE: I was just following
the instructions of my master.
712
00:38:48,409 --> 00:38:50,911
MARC: All right,
so on August 9th, you say...
713
00:38:51,662 --> 00:38:56,208
(READS PROMPT)
714
00:38:56,292 --> 00:39:00,004
-That's what you write, correct?
-SYLVIE: Yes, that's correct.
715
00:39:00,087 --> 00:39:02,256
MARC: And under it,
there's a naked picture of you,
716
00:39:02,339 --> 00:39:03,466
and you write...
717
00:39:03,549 --> 00:39:08,929
(READS PROMPT)
718
00:39:09,847 --> 00:39:10,973
SYLVIE: I would say whatever
719
00:39:11,057 --> 00:39:12,975
I thought
was most pleasing to him.
720
00:39:13,059 --> 00:39:15,144
MARC: So, when you said
that you dreamt about him,
721
00:39:15,227 --> 00:39:16,854
you were making that up?
722
00:39:16,937 --> 00:39:19,065
SYLVIE: I may have dreamt
about him.
723
00:39:19,148 --> 00:39:21,859
If I say I did, I'm sure I did.
724
00:39:23,069 --> 00:39:25,738
MARC: Have you told my client
that you love him?
725
00:39:25,821 --> 00:39:28,324
SYLVIE: I tried to be
the best slave I could be
726
00:39:28,407 --> 00:39:30,826
so that things
would work out for me.
727
00:39:30,910 --> 00:39:33,287
I'm not saying that
was the right way to do things.
728
00:39:33,954 --> 00:39:35,122
But that's what I did.
729
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:37,333
MARC: I have nothing else,
Judge.
730
00:39:38,834 --> 00:39:40,920
♪ (MUSIC FADING) ♪
731
00:39:41,003 --> 00:39:44,632
(DRILL RATTLING IN BACKGROUND)
732
00:39:44,715 --> 00:39:46,717
NIPPY: I think Sylvie did
one of the bravest things
733
00:39:46,801 --> 00:39:47,843
I've ever seen anyone do
734
00:39:47,927 --> 00:39:50,304
and it sucks
that she had to do that.
735
00:39:52,223 --> 00:39:54,016
You know, it's fucked up.
736
00:39:54,100 --> 00:39:57,812
But I feel like
what Keith's abuses were,
737
00:39:57,895 --> 00:40:01,023
weren't exposed today.
738
00:40:02,441 --> 00:40:05,402
I can see how a jury member
sitting in there going,
739
00:40:05,486 --> 00:40:07,780
"Well, yeah, you know,
that was her decision.
740
00:40:07,863 --> 00:40:10,407
You know, she chose to stay
and she communicated,
741
00:40:10,491 --> 00:40:14,328
and she encouraged him."
And that's just not the case.
742
00:40:14,411 --> 00:40:17,790
Regardless of what their texts
back to him are, or whatever,
743
00:40:17,873 --> 00:40:19,542
they need to understand
that the system
744
00:40:19,625 --> 00:40:22,169
and the indoctrination
these women have gone through,
745
00:40:22,253 --> 00:40:23,963
which set Sylvie up
746
00:40:24,046 --> 00:40:25,840
for a vulnerable moment
like that.
747
00:40:27,133 --> 00:40:30,010
Some of our viewers
may be wondering why any woman
748
00:40:30,094 --> 00:40:33,514
would subject themselves to this
and why they would not just
749
00:40:33,597 --> 00:40:35,141
walk away from this situation
750
00:40:35,224 --> 00:40:38,018
or simply say no
to these requests.
751
00:40:38,102 --> 00:40:40,187
Former NXIVM member,
Barbara Bouchey,
752
00:40:40,271 --> 00:40:42,940
giving some insight into this,
just after court.
753
00:40:43,023 --> 00:40:45,484
Let's put these messages
in context,
754
00:40:45,568 --> 00:40:48,445
and let's establish
how she felt manipulated.
755
00:40:48,529 --> 00:40:50,823
And specifically,
how he does that.
756
00:40:50,906 --> 00:40:53,409
I don't feel that
they established that.
757
00:40:53,492 --> 00:40:56,162
Yes, Sylvie did say,
"I felt I needed to
758
00:40:56,245 --> 00:40:57,997
and I was ordered to."
But it's just gotta leave
759
00:40:58,080 --> 00:40:59,707
the jurors wondering like,
"Wait a minute,
760
00:40:59,790 --> 00:41:02,668
something here
is not sizing up." You know?
761
00:41:02,751 --> 00:41:03,878
So Keith's attorney
762
00:41:03,961 --> 00:41:06,547
has won the one on Sylvie,
unfortunately.
763
00:41:09,675 --> 00:41:13,095
(DISTANT TRAFFIC RUMBLING)
764
00:41:14,138 --> 00:41:15,472
-SARAH EDMONDSON: Hi.
-Hey.
765
00:41:15,556 --> 00:41:18,684
So, Eduardo and all those people
saw Sylvie talking about this...
766
00:41:18,767 --> 00:41:21,729
Yes, and they walk out, yeah.
767
00:41:21,812 --> 00:41:24,190
So, like, they don't wanna take
in the information.
768
00:41:24,273 --> 00:41:26,525
-Like if that's what--
-Well, if they're there,
769
00:41:26,609 --> 00:41:28,611
and Sylvie is saying this,
this is not--
770
00:41:28,694 --> 00:41:30,154
this is not me
or Mark Vicente...
771
00:41:30,237 --> 00:41:31,238
-Yeah.
-...with Sylvie.
772
00:41:31,322 --> 00:41:32,573
-Yeah.
-It's gotta get in.
773
00:41:32,656 --> 00:41:34,158
It's gonna get in somehow.
774
00:41:34,241 --> 00:41:35,326
-I'm telling you.
-Sarah.
775
00:41:35,409 --> 00:41:36,577
Sarah, we're still the enemy.
776
00:41:37,578 --> 00:41:38,746
They're in the same diner
we are.
777
00:41:38,829 --> 00:41:39,914
They're in the other room
right now.
778
00:41:39,997 --> 00:41:42,249
Fuck me, I'm gonna call Eduardo
right now.
779
00:41:42,333 --> 00:41:43,542
-I'm gonna call him.
-No, no.
780
00:41:43,626 --> 00:41:45,252
-Yeah, I'm calling him.
-Shit, pump the brakes.
781
00:41:49,340 --> 00:41:54,595
At this point, if you don't see
that the thing that Keith sold
782
00:41:54,678 --> 00:41:58,766
and pretended he was upholding
is a fucking con,
783
00:41:58,849 --> 00:42:02,186
you are supporting something
that is undermining
784
00:42:02,269 --> 00:42:04,355
the principles that you pretend
to uphold.
785
00:42:07,149 --> 00:42:11,070
So, either they're willing
to embrace more information,
786
00:42:11,153 --> 00:42:15,407
"get all the data," as they say,
or maintain their narrative
787
00:42:15,491 --> 00:42:17,660
and good luck,
see where that gets you.
788
00:42:19,828 --> 00:42:22,581
♪ (INTENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
789
00:42:40,266 --> 00:42:43,310
Just gonna make sure the judge
doesn't think I'm a slob.
790
00:42:45,104 --> 00:42:46,105
Okay?
791
00:42:53,362 --> 00:42:54,446
Terrified.
792
00:42:56,365 --> 00:42:58,993
Fucking terrified.
And I hate suits.
793
00:42:59,868 --> 00:43:00,953
With a passion.
794
00:43:01,036 --> 00:43:04,540
I vowed I never wanted to wear
them again after ESP,
795
00:43:04,623 --> 00:43:09,086
and here I am about to,
in some ways, do an ESP intro,
796
00:43:10,337 --> 00:43:12,506
explaining how it all works
and what it is and...
797
00:43:13,799 --> 00:43:15,676
why I liked it.
798
00:43:15,759 --> 00:43:18,220
They all told me, like,
once you get inside of it,
799
00:43:18,304 --> 00:43:21,223
it's fine.
It's just the beginning.
800
00:43:21,307 --> 00:43:23,434
You know,
it's a new environment and...
801
00:43:23,517 --> 00:43:24,977
it's kind of nerve-wracking.
802
00:43:26,145 --> 00:43:30,441
It's just the beginning
that I'm the most worried about.
803
00:43:36,655 --> 00:43:37,865
-Bye.
-BONNIE: Bye.
804
00:43:40,409 --> 00:43:44,246
As far as I understand,
if one jury member
805
00:43:44,330 --> 00:43:47,833
doesn't think he's guilty then
he's pronounced not guilty,
806
00:43:47,916 --> 00:43:51,128
I think. Like it needs
to be across the board.
807
00:43:53,005 --> 00:43:57,009
So, if he manages to brainwash
one jury member then...
808
00:43:58,260 --> 00:43:59,595
I think he goes free.
809
00:44:00,846 --> 00:44:03,474
And then he'd come after us,
100 percent.
810
00:44:03,557 --> 00:44:05,809
Like, he's a vengeful bastard,
he doesn't--
811
00:44:05,893 --> 00:44:07,561
he doesn't, like,
get on with his life
812
00:44:07,644 --> 00:44:09,229
and be like,
"Oh, maybe I've had enough."
813
00:44:10,439 --> 00:44:13,359
His whole life's purpose seems
to be coming after people.
814
00:44:13,442 --> 00:44:16,862
Especially people who were loyal
to him who are now not.
815
00:44:16,945 --> 00:44:19,198
♪ (MELANCHOLIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
816
00:44:26,955 --> 00:44:28,123
(LIGHTER CLICKS)
817
00:44:29,541 --> 00:44:31,001
BONNIE: I don't wanna be
in the courtroom
818
00:44:31,085 --> 00:44:33,379
because it wouldn't be good
for Mark if I was in there
819
00:44:33,462 --> 00:44:34,713
when he's testifying,
820
00:44:34,797 --> 00:44:37,883
'cause I'm worried about me
having panic attacks and stuff.
821
00:44:37,966 --> 00:44:41,053
But I wish I could be a fly
on the wall.
822
00:44:48,852 --> 00:44:50,104
(GAVEL THUDDING)
823
00:44:51,855 --> 00:44:53,732
Good afternoon, Mr. Vicente.
824
00:44:53,816 --> 00:44:54,900
Good afternoon.
825
00:44:54,983 --> 00:44:57,611
How long were you involved
with the organization?
826
00:44:59,196 --> 00:45:02,116
I was with the organization
for about 12 years.
827
00:45:02,199 --> 00:45:04,159
MARK LESKO: During your 12 years
at NXIVM,
828
00:45:04,243 --> 00:45:06,036
did you come to know
Mr. Raniere?
829
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:07,162
MARK: I did.
830
00:45:08,414 --> 00:45:10,916
And what was
the defendant's role at NXIVM?
831
00:45:10,999 --> 00:45:13,419
MARK: He was considered
the philosophical founder.
832
00:45:14,753 --> 00:45:17,631
The driving, ethical, moral
and humanitarian force
833
00:45:17,714 --> 00:45:20,134
behind the entire company.
834
00:45:20,217 --> 00:45:23,137
I'd like to have you
look around the courtroom.
835
00:45:23,220 --> 00:45:26,014
And let us know if you see
Mr. Raniere here today.
836
00:45:29,101 --> 00:45:32,146
I remember shaking,
and I remember saying to myself,
837
00:45:32,229 --> 00:45:33,397
"I'm not going to look at him."
838
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:35,691
Like, "I'm not looking
at the defense table."
839
00:45:35,774 --> 00:45:37,568
But I had to say
the defendant's name,
840
00:45:37,651 --> 00:45:39,111
like, "Keith Raniere."
841
00:45:39,194 --> 00:45:42,114
And then they say,
"Can you point to him?"
842
00:45:42,197 --> 00:45:44,950
I pointed at him
and I held-- I just held it.
843
00:45:45,033 --> 00:45:47,953
♪ (EMOTIONAL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
844
00:45:48,036 --> 00:45:50,456
MARK: And the thing
that was just fucked up
845
00:45:50,539 --> 00:45:53,459
was that the way he looked at me
when I pointed at him
846
00:45:53,542 --> 00:45:56,003
was sort of this, like,
"I'm here for you.
847
00:45:56,086 --> 00:45:59,089
I'm still on your side.
I still love you."
848
00:46:02,634 --> 00:46:04,845
And I made the decision, like,
"Fuck you.
849
00:46:06,597 --> 00:46:07,764
You're not getting in my head."
850
00:46:10,434 --> 00:46:14,146
But later on, I had this,
like, sudden thought,
851
00:46:14,229 --> 00:46:16,273
it was bizarre,
it like just floated through
852
00:46:16,356 --> 00:46:17,983
and it was like...
It was sort of like,
853
00:46:18,066 --> 00:46:19,193
"What if he's right?
854
00:46:20,235 --> 00:46:22,237
What if he actually
is a good guy?"
855
00:46:22,321 --> 00:46:25,115
Okay. You wear the headphones
and I'll--
856
00:46:25,199 --> 00:46:26,492
Let me hear how it sounds.
857
00:46:27,075 --> 00:46:29,161
(BOTH LAUGH)
858
00:46:29,786 --> 00:46:30,871
Wait, how'd you do that?
859
00:46:30,954 --> 00:46:31,997
MARK: And I was like,
860
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,666
"What the fuck
is that thought doing there?"
861
00:46:34,750 --> 00:46:35,876
I was so horrified.
862
00:46:37,211 --> 00:46:40,047
Not so much that the thought
had taken root,
863
00:46:40,130 --> 00:46:41,673
but that I had the thought.
864
00:46:43,926 --> 00:46:45,928
♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪
865
00:46:46,011 --> 00:46:49,848
LESKO: Okay, Mr. Vicente.
Let's turn back to 2005.
866
00:46:49,932 --> 00:46:51,892
-♪ (SOFT PIANO MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
-LESKO: In that year,
867
00:46:51,975 --> 00:46:54,811
did you participate
in an ESP program?
868
00:46:54,895 --> 00:46:58,899
MARK: I did.
It was a 16-day training.
869
00:46:58,982 --> 00:47:01,860
And pretty early on, a number
of the philosophical ideas
870
00:47:01,944 --> 00:47:03,403
began being introduced.
871
00:47:04,738 --> 00:47:06,323
In one particular module,
872
00:47:06,406 --> 00:47:07,991
they talked about speaking
with honor.
873
00:47:09,159 --> 00:47:11,995
And that if you were unable
to speak with honor,
874
00:47:12,079 --> 00:47:14,248
it suggested you had a problem
with pride
875
00:47:14,331 --> 00:47:17,918
and that you were
what was termed "suppressive."
876
00:47:18,001 --> 00:47:19,711
And what was interesting
to me is that
877
00:47:20,462 --> 00:47:22,005
it seemed quite okay
878
00:47:22,089 --> 00:47:24,258
to speak dishonorably
about other people,
879
00:47:25,175 --> 00:47:28,095
but not Vanguard, not Raniere.
880
00:47:28,178 --> 00:47:31,306
One could never speak
dishonorably about him
881
00:47:31,390 --> 00:47:34,434
because then you would be
considered to be prideful.
882
00:47:34,518 --> 00:47:37,145
So, there was a trap that seemed
to be built in.
883
00:47:38,647 --> 00:47:41,233
They even brought up the word
"cult" and said, "Look,
884
00:47:41,316 --> 00:47:45,028
the word doesn't exist,
there's no definition for it.
885
00:47:45,112 --> 00:47:48,907
And anybody who uses the word
is clearly suppressive as well."
886
00:47:50,325 --> 00:47:51,910
So, in essence,
I began to realize
887
00:47:51,994 --> 00:47:54,162
that if you said anything
against the curriculum,
888
00:47:54,246 --> 00:47:57,749
against the educational model,
or against the founder,
889
00:47:57,833 --> 00:47:59,585
you were considered suppressive.
890
00:48:01,878 --> 00:48:04,673
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
891
00:48:04,756 --> 00:48:07,467
MOIRA: People who would
be labelled as suppressives
892
00:48:07,551 --> 00:48:10,137
would be people
who actually challenged
893
00:48:10,220 --> 00:48:13,473
the abuses
within the NXIVM system.
894
00:48:13,557 --> 00:48:17,603
The idea would be that
you are
895
00:48:17,686 --> 00:48:20,063
somebody who doesn't want
good in the world.
896
00:48:20,147 --> 00:48:25,152
You are actively fighting
against this really great thing
897
00:48:25,235 --> 00:48:28,572
because you are somebody
who destroys.
898
00:48:35,537 --> 00:48:38,665
BONNIE: "It was a horrible,
twisted idea," he said.
899
00:48:38,749 --> 00:48:41,251
Vicente told the jury
that looking back he feels
900
00:48:41,335 --> 00:48:43,337
Raniere's teachings
about overcoming fears
901
00:48:43,420 --> 00:48:46,089
to achieve self-fulfillment
was a fraud and a lie.
902
00:48:47,674 --> 00:48:49,551
(GROUSES)
Says he broke down crying.
903
00:48:51,094 --> 00:48:54,514
And he needed to compose himself
on the witness stand.
904
00:48:54,598 --> 00:48:57,309
♪ (EMOTIONAL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
905
00:49:43,897 --> 00:49:45,357
(CLICKS TONGUE) I'm done.
906
00:49:46,316 --> 00:49:47,984
♪ (MUSIC FADING) ♪
907
00:49:48,068 --> 00:49:50,904
-BONNIE: (SOFTLY) Yeah.
-(BREATHES DEEPLY)
908
00:49:52,698 --> 00:49:53,782
It's okay, baby.
909
00:49:59,996 --> 00:50:03,000
I feel like the greatest thing
that could've happened
910
00:50:03,083 --> 00:50:05,752
is I got to face off
this monster
911
00:50:05,836 --> 00:50:08,422
and then see
that I have any more like...
912
00:50:08,505 --> 00:50:10,590
Was there anything
holding me back
913
00:50:10,674 --> 00:50:12,342
from seeing the truth?
And I found, in the end,
914
00:50:12,426 --> 00:50:14,010
there was nothing.
Nothing holding me back.
915
00:50:14,094 --> 00:50:15,721
I could-- I could face him.
916
00:50:18,265 --> 00:50:19,975
But I'm free from him.
917
00:50:20,058 --> 00:50:22,394
You know?
He's not in my soul anymore,
918
00:50:22,477 --> 00:50:23,770
he's not in my head anymore.
919
00:50:29,985 --> 00:50:33,029
♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
920
00:50:41,288 --> 00:50:43,373
NANCY: You know,
I really loved Mark.
921
00:50:44,666 --> 00:50:48,086
And I felt like
we were really friends.
922
00:50:48,170 --> 00:50:49,546
MARK: This could not
have been built,
923
00:50:49,629 --> 00:50:53,550
had prefect Nancy Salzman
not existed.
924
00:50:53,633 --> 00:50:57,345
And some of you have heard
that I was pompous
beyond belief.
925
00:50:57,429 --> 00:50:59,055
(AUDIENCE LAUGHS)
926
00:50:59,139 --> 00:51:00,974
MARK: She broke my pride,
927
00:51:01,057 --> 00:51:03,810
she broke my arrogance
but she did it with love.
928
00:51:03,894 --> 00:51:06,104
We are standing
on the shoulders of giants.
929
00:51:06,188 --> 00:51:08,899
And to me, you are a giantess.
930
00:51:09,858 --> 00:51:13,195
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDS)
931
00:51:16,490 --> 00:51:18,200
♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
932
00:51:18,283 --> 00:51:19,284
NANCY: When he left,
933
00:51:19,367 --> 00:51:22,120
it was very painful for me
what he did.
934
00:51:22,954 --> 00:51:25,081
I'm just gonna say
thank you, Mark.
935
00:51:25,165 --> 00:51:27,751
(AUDIENCE CONTINUES APPLAUDING)
936
00:51:27,834 --> 00:51:29,461
NANCY:
They were so destructive.
937
00:51:31,421 --> 00:51:36,927
Sarah went home and disenrolled
everybody she enrolled
938
00:51:37,010 --> 00:51:39,971
and gave them refunds
out of our money.
939
00:51:41,014 --> 00:51:42,766
She didn't have a right
to do that.
940
00:51:43,934 --> 00:51:45,977
And the call
that she finally did make to me
941
00:51:46,061 --> 00:51:47,979
was so horrendous.
942
00:51:48,980 --> 00:51:50,982
-♪ (MUSIC FADING) ♪
-(CELLPHONE BEEPS)
943
00:52:29,896 --> 00:52:33,608
So, that was how I-- (CHUCKLES)
That was my call from Sarah.
944
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:39,489
Would you respond to a message
like that?
945
00:52:42,909 --> 00:52:46,371
I think I probably feel angrier
at Sarah than I do at Keith,
946
00:52:46,454 --> 00:52:49,749
which is not rational,
I guess but...
947
00:52:51,751 --> 00:52:53,837
I mean, I think Keith
is just the way he is.
948
00:52:56,339 --> 00:52:58,800
We're not really here,
this is a video of a meeting
949
00:52:58,884 --> 00:53:00,594
that happened long ago.
950
00:53:00,677 --> 00:53:03,805
Do you--
Sir, we're connected up.
951
00:53:06,141 --> 00:53:08,602
NANCY: I think everybody
just assumes.
952
00:53:08,685 --> 00:53:09,978
You know, I knew everything
953
00:53:10,061 --> 00:53:11,771
and I should've known
everything.
954
00:53:14,232 --> 00:53:18,486
But when everything started
to blow up...
955
00:53:21,323 --> 00:53:23,116
I didn't know why really.
956
00:53:23,867 --> 00:53:26,703
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
957
00:53:26,786 --> 00:53:30,040
NANCY: In 2017,
during my birthday party...
958
00:53:31,750 --> 00:53:34,961
a very dear friend of mine
came to me
959
00:53:35,045 --> 00:53:37,464
thinking I knew about DOS.
960
00:53:37,547 --> 00:53:40,467
I had no idea
what she was talking about.
961
00:53:40,550 --> 00:53:44,512
Meanwhile, Nippy is having
some kind of tantrum.
962
00:54:05,867 --> 00:54:08,328
I called Keith and I said,
"What's going on?"
963
00:54:08,411 --> 00:54:10,246
And he said, "Nothing."
And I said, "Keith,
964
00:54:10,330 --> 00:54:11,915
something is going on."
965
00:54:11,998 --> 00:54:14,793
And I said
that I'm really upset.
966
00:54:14,876 --> 00:54:17,754
It's very clear that everyone
in that room knows something
967
00:54:17,837 --> 00:54:18,922
that I don't know.
968
00:54:19,005 --> 00:54:23,343
And finally, Lauren is sent
to take me for a walk.
969
00:54:25,053 --> 00:54:28,348
And she says to me, "Mom,
I don't want you to be upset.
970
00:54:28,431 --> 00:54:29,683
It's nothing bad."
971
00:54:29,766 --> 00:54:33,311
And I said, "Well,
why isn't anyone telling me?"
972
00:54:33,395 --> 00:54:34,896
And she said, "Well, Mom,
973
00:54:34,980 --> 00:54:37,649
there's this
secret organization.
974
00:54:37,732 --> 00:54:39,818
It's like a sorority."
975
00:54:39,901 --> 00:54:41,695
And I said, "And Keith
is running this thing?"
976
00:54:41,778 --> 00:54:45,407
And she said,
"No. It's the women."
977
00:54:47,283 --> 00:54:51,496
And I went to Keith, and I said,
"You're doing this, aren't you?
978
00:54:51,579 --> 00:54:52,747
You're running this,
aren't you?"
979
00:54:52,831 --> 00:54:54,290
And he said,
"No, no, no, no, no."
980
00:54:55,083 --> 00:54:56,835
He said it was the women's idea.
981
00:54:58,461 --> 00:55:01,840
I was so angry at these women.
982
00:55:01,923 --> 00:55:06,136
It seemed like
they were just very thoughtless
983
00:55:06,219 --> 00:55:08,805
about how what they were doing
was going to affect
984
00:55:08,888 --> 00:55:11,349
everything I had worked for
for 20 years.
985
00:55:13,518 --> 00:55:15,603
And then, he stood up in front
of the whole organization,
986
00:55:15,687 --> 00:55:18,523
and told the whole organization
what he had told me
987
00:55:18,606 --> 00:55:21,067
and I still believed him.
988
00:55:21,151 --> 00:55:25,447
The connection with the sorority
between myself, between NXIVM,
989
00:55:25,530 --> 00:55:29,075
between Jness has been...
(SIGHS)
990
00:55:29,159 --> 00:55:31,411
...ridiculously,
not only exaggerated,
991
00:55:31,494 --> 00:55:33,413
but even fabricated.
992
00:55:33,496 --> 00:55:35,707
The sorority is not
a NXIVM thing.
993
00:55:35,790 --> 00:55:36,958
It is totally separate.
994
00:55:37,042 --> 00:55:39,294
In fact, there are people
in this sorority
995
00:55:39,377 --> 00:55:41,963
that aren't in any
of our companies at all.
996
00:55:42,672 --> 00:55:45,592
The sorority is not a company.
997
00:55:47,010 --> 00:55:51,431
Most of the things about it
are not really true.
998
00:55:55,435 --> 00:55:59,814
And then my whole company
was destroyed...
999
00:56:00,982 --> 00:56:02,776
and my whole life fell apart.
1000
00:56:05,612 --> 00:56:07,489
There were bad things
that happened...
1001
00:56:09,199 --> 00:56:11,618
but it doesn't mean
that everybody
1002
00:56:11,701 --> 00:56:13,411
who's getting blamed
for the bad things
1003
00:56:13,495 --> 00:56:14,954
actually did the bad things.
1004
00:56:16,372 --> 00:56:19,167
The sex cult was DOS,
it was over here.
1005
00:56:19,250 --> 00:56:20,585
It was Keith's thing.
1006
00:56:20,668 --> 00:56:22,962
My company didn't need
to be destroyed.
1007
00:56:23,046 --> 00:56:24,798
♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1008
00:56:24,881 --> 00:56:25,924
But it was.
1009
00:56:27,133 --> 00:56:29,385
That's not right.
1010
00:56:29,469 --> 00:56:33,139
I spent 20 years trying to make
the world a better place
1011
00:56:33,223 --> 00:56:35,058
and this is where I ended up.
1012
00:56:35,141 --> 00:56:37,769
Actually, I spent 40 years
1013
00:56:37,852 --> 00:56:39,312
trying to make the world
a better place
1014
00:56:39,395 --> 00:56:41,773
because I started
before I knew Keith Raniere.
1015
00:56:43,316 --> 00:56:45,902
And the other thing
I don't understand is...
1016
00:56:47,070 --> 00:56:49,614
17,000 people
got good results.
1017
00:56:51,282 --> 00:56:52,534
Where are they?
1018
00:56:54,077 --> 00:56:56,871
Why aren't they standing up
for us?
1019
00:56:56,955 --> 00:57:00,208
♪ (MUSIC INTENSIFIES,
CONCLUDES) ♪
1020
00:57:00,291 --> 00:57:02,794
♪ ("MY HANDS"
BY TATUM PLAYING) ♪
1021
00:57:04,420 --> 00:57:07,674
♪ I stitched together
All my happy moments ♪
1022
00:57:07,757 --> 00:57:11,094
♪ In this lace
So I never had to look ♪
1023
00:57:11,928 --> 00:57:13,513
♪ At the in betweens ♪
1024
00:57:13,596 --> 00:57:16,182
♪ I used my smile as a mask ♪
1025
00:57:16,266 --> 00:57:18,685
♪ So no one would ever ask ♪
1026
00:57:18,768 --> 00:57:20,812
♪ What happened? ♪
1027
00:57:20,895 --> 00:57:25,150
♪ How did I break? ♪
1028
00:57:25,233 --> 00:57:29,696
(VOCALIZING)
1029
00:57:33,158 --> 00:57:39,789
♪ I buried you ♪
1030
00:57:42,250 --> 00:57:49,174
♪ My hands were shaking
The day I became brave ♪
1031
00:57:49,257 --> 00:57:56,556
♪ I roped back the layers
I faced all, all of my horrors ♪
1032
00:57:56,639 --> 00:57:58,933
♪ I found I am stronger ♪
1033
00:57:59,017 --> 00:58:03,563
♪ Stronger than the monsters ♪
1034
00:58:03,646 --> 00:58:08,318
♪ Stronger than the monsters ♪
1035
00:58:10,528 --> 00:58:14,365
♪ My hands were shaking ♪
1036
00:58:14,449 --> 00:58:19,078
♪ The day I became brave ♪
1037
00:58:19,162 --> 00:58:20,705
♪ (SONG CONCLUDING) ♪