1 00:00:09,676 --> 00:00:11,803 ANCHOR 1: Now, remember, Keith Raniere was arrested 2 00:00:11,886 --> 00:00:14,472 with five other women, all part of his inner circle. 3 00:00:14,556 --> 00:00:17,267 And now, all of the women have pleaded guilty. 4 00:00:17,350 --> 00:00:19,853 ANCHOR 2: And do we know if we'll be hearing 5 00:00:19,936 --> 00:00:23,648 from any of these women as witnesses during the trial? 6 00:00:23,732 --> 00:00:26,484 ANCHOR 1: We don't know yet, but any of them could testify. 7 00:00:31,406 --> 00:00:32,741 (CHIRPS) 8 00:00:36,703 --> 00:00:38,747 NANCY SALZMAN: I plead guilty to one count 9 00:00:38,830 --> 00:00:40,707 of racketeering conspiracy. 10 00:00:42,041 --> 00:00:45,086 And after Keith's trial is over and he's sentenced, 11 00:00:45,170 --> 00:00:46,880 I'll get my sentence from the judge. 12 00:00:51,551 --> 00:00:52,719 Come on, Mouse. 13 00:00:52,802 --> 00:00:55,305 -(CLICKS TONGUE) -(MEWLS) 14 00:00:55,388 --> 00:00:57,974 (METAL CLANKING) 15 00:00:58,057 --> 00:01:01,269 NANCY: When I was first arrested, 16 00:01:01,352 --> 00:01:03,855 I wasn't allowed to leave the house at all. 17 00:01:06,149 --> 00:01:07,734 Recently, I got permission 18 00:01:07,817 --> 00:01:09,486 to be able to speak to my family. 19 00:01:11,196 --> 00:01:12,447 So, at least, Lauren and I, 20 00:01:12,530 --> 00:01:15,366 we are able to talk to each other. 21 00:01:18,161 --> 00:01:20,038 I was told that this is a privilege. 22 00:01:20,747 --> 00:01:21,873 I could be in jail. 23 00:01:24,751 --> 00:01:25,960 This is crazy. 24 00:01:27,462 --> 00:01:33,593 Imagine you spent... 22 years trying to build something 25 00:01:33,676 --> 00:01:36,095 that you fully believed in and you thought was good, 26 00:01:36,179 --> 00:01:37,555 and everybody thinks... 27 00:01:39,057 --> 00:01:40,725 it's the devil's work. 28 00:01:40,809 --> 00:01:45,855 ♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING, FADING) ♪ 29 00:01:49,192 --> 00:01:52,320 ♪ ("DREAM STATE" BY SON LUX PLAYING) ♪ 30 00:01:53,738 --> 00:01:57,992 ♪ Days we were young We took photographs ♪ 31 00:01:58,076 --> 00:02:01,412 ♪ Of everything we could see ♪ 32 00:02:01,496 --> 00:02:07,293 ♪ We had to run from it Priest and prophetess ♪ 33 00:02:07,377 --> 00:02:12,340 ♪ We were nothing We would defy ♪ 34 00:02:13,007 --> 00:02:14,884 (VOCALIZES) 35 00:02:14,968 --> 00:02:20,723 ♪ Invisible skin Where is the world within? ♪ 36 00:02:20,807 --> 00:02:26,020 ♪ Invincible skin It's how we all begin ♪ 37 00:02:28,815 --> 00:02:31,901 ♪ (SONG CONCLUDING) ♪ 38 00:02:49,002 --> 00:02:52,130 NANCY: I really have not looked at this in a very long time. 39 00:02:53,339 --> 00:02:55,425 It's running, let's see what's in it. 40 00:02:59,596 --> 00:03:05,184 Have you ever had an experience where you were called upon 41 00:03:05,268 --> 00:03:06,436 to do something 42 00:03:06,519 --> 00:03:08,605 but you really didn't know how to do that thing? 43 00:03:08,688 --> 00:03:11,774 How do you feel when you have such an experience? 44 00:03:11,858 --> 00:03:13,067 ♪ (MELANCHOLIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 45 00:03:13,151 --> 00:03:16,905 NANCY: Most people say "fearful," "insecure," 46 00:03:16,988 --> 00:03:18,907 like they're on shaky ground. 47 00:03:18,990 --> 00:03:20,408 Because we are. 48 00:03:20,491 --> 00:03:23,786 But children have that experience all the time. 49 00:03:23,870 --> 00:03:27,332 And they are forced to come up with an understanding 50 00:03:27,415 --> 00:03:29,959 so that they can function very quickly. 51 00:03:30,043 --> 00:03:33,963 The beliefs that we formed when we were small children 52 00:03:34,047 --> 00:03:35,298 stay with us. 53 00:03:35,381 --> 00:03:36,633 (STATIC HISSING) 54 00:03:36,716 --> 00:03:39,302 NANCY: I think the reason that Keith chose me 55 00:03:39,385 --> 00:03:40,762 is because of my background. 56 00:03:42,055 --> 00:03:44,682 I did a lot of work with patients with chronic pain 57 00:03:44,766 --> 00:03:45,808 and chronic illness. 58 00:03:47,352 --> 00:03:49,187 My mother had a chronic pain problem 59 00:03:49,270 --> 00:03:50,313 when I was growing up, 60 00:03:50,396 --> 00:03:54,025 and many times, my mother was in so much pain 61 00:03:54,108 --> 00:03:55,735 that she couldn't get out of bed. 62 00:03:56,861 --> 00:04:01,115 I always felt so terrible 63 00:04:01,199 --> 00:04:03,743 when I saw how much pain my mother was in. 64 00:04:03,826 --> 00:04:05,870 I remember her crawling. 65 00:04:05,954 --> 00:04:08,289 And so, I became a nurse. 66 00:04:09,791 --> 00:04:11,459 Early in my career, 67 00:04:11,542 --> 00:04:15,338 it was the heyday of chronic pain clinics. 68 00:04:15,421 --> 00:04:18,216 So, I started studying about chronic pain. 69 00:04:19,258 --> 00:04:22,637 And I started to understand 70 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,598 that there was a mind-body connection. 71 00:04:25,682 --> 00:04:28,518 And I learned to teach people self-hypnosis techniques, 72 00:04:28,601 --> 00:04:32,355 and do neuro-linguistic programming, or NLP. 73 00:04:34,565 --> 00:04:38,111 NLP is a model of language patterns 74 00:04:38,194 --> 00:04:39,737 to create behavioral change. 75 00:04:41,322 --> 00:04:43,408 I used it in my work with pain management 76 00:04:43,491 --> 00:04:46,327 and it was very, very successful. 77 00:04:46,411 --> 00:04:48,913 What I found was that I was able to work with people 78 00:04:48,997 --> 00:04:52,834 for like six to ten sessions, they would resolve their issue, 79 00:04:52,917 --> 00:04:56,379 but like in two years, or three years, 80 00:04:56,462 --> 00:04:59,340 they would come back with another issue 81 00:04:59,424 --> 00:05:02,385 that was amazingly similar to the first issue. (CHUCKLES) 82 00:05:04,303 --> 00:05:08,307 I was always looking for something that I could use 83 00:05:08,391 --> 00:05:11,769 to help people create change that would be permanent. 84 00:05:13,396 --> 00:05:16,315 And so, most of my career was trying to find that. 85 00:05:18,401 --> 00:05:19,402 So, um... 86 00:05:29,412 --> 00:05:31,873 Keith was trying to meet me for ten years. 87 00:05:31,956 --> 00:05:34,208 He wanted me to train his company 88 00:05:34,292 --> 00:05:36,461 in neuro-linguistic programming, 89 00:05:36,544 --> 00:05:39,422 but I actually didn't have the self-confidence to do it. 90 00:05:39,505 --> 00:05:41,758 ♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 91 00:05:41,841 --> 00:05:43,426 NANCY: Ten years later, 92 00:05:43,509 --> 00:05:45,678 both of my kids had gone away to college. 93 00:05:46,846 --> 00:05:50,767 I was divorced, I was alone. 94 00:05:52,143 --> 00:05:54,854 So I decided to meet Keith Raniere. 95 00:05:57,482 --> 00:06:00,109 I don't even know how to describe what it's like 96 00:06:00,193 --> 00:06:05,031 when you-- you meet someone like Keith. 97 00:06:05,114 --> 00:06:08,201 He understood the human psychodynamic in a way 98 00:06:08,284 --> 00:06:11,621 that I have never seen anyone understand it. 99 00:06:11,704 --> 00:06:13,998 He understood it and he worked with it. 100 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,211 We all want to be in sync with people, 101 00:06:18,294 --> 00:06:20,213 we wanna feel connected, 102 00:06:20,296 --> 00:06:23,508 and that's a feeling that we call rapport. 103 00:06:23,591 --> 00:06:25,718 And when we're in rapport with people, 104 00:06:25,802 --> 00:06:30,264 we have a tendency to feel an unconscious trust for them. 105 00:06:30,348 --> 00:06:34,352 In order to establish rapport, you mirror the other person. 106 00:06:35,728 --> 00:06:37,313 Like, if you and I are chatting 107 00:06:37,396 --> 00:06:38,940 and you're speaking in a certain volume, 108 00:06:39,023 --> 00:06:41,818 I can mirror that volume, or match it. 109 00:06:41,901 --> 00:06:44,237 Yeah, let's suppose you have some-- someone who's sitting 110 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:45,780 and thinking or whatever. 111 00:06:45,863 --> 00:06:48,908 Suddenly, I'm closer and everyone sort of sees it 112 00:06:48,991 --> 00:06:51,035 but the person who's sitting like this 113 00:06:51,119 --> 00:06:54,914 will feel more in touch with me like that... 114 00:06:54,997 --> 00:06:56,582 NANCY: We fall into a certain rapport 115 00:06:56,666 --> 00:06:59,043 when that happens, Keith was a master of that. 116 00:07:01,754 --> 00:07:07,426 He told me that he had this idea for a model 117 00:07:07,510 --> 00:07:08,761 for behavior change. 118 00:07:08,845 --> 00:07:11,931 Go into this organization with four bronze bonuses. 119 00:07:12,014 --> 00:07:15,560 NANCY: And he said, "You know, I just thought NLP 120 00:07:15,643 --> 00:07:19,981 would be a good basis to do this project that I wanna do." 121 00:07:20,064 --> 00:07:22,984 He took me into his office and we were drawing 122 00:07:23,067 --> 00:07:24,360 charts of perception 123 00:07:24,443 --> 00:07:28,823 and it was the most compelling conversation I've ever had. 124 00:07:28,906 --> 00:07:30,158 ♪ (SOFT PIANO MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 125 00:07:30,241 --> 00:07:31,951 NANCY: We talked for five hours. 126 00:07:32,034 --> 00:07:34,203 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 127 00:07:34,287 --> 00:07:36,080 KEITH RANIERE: Humility and vulnerability 128 00:07:36,164 --> 00:07:37,999 is fearlessness. 129 00:07:38,082 --> 00:07:40,042 If you're completely vulnerable, 130 00:07:40,126 --> 00:07:42,253 you have nothing to lose. 131 00:07:42,336 --> 00:07:44,213 -That make sense? -NANCY: Yeah. 132 00:07:44,297 --> 00:07:46,299 For several weekends in a row, 133 00:07:46,382 --> 00:07:47,758 we would have conversations. 134 00:07:55,266 --> 00:07:56,267 -You do? -KEITH: Oh. 135 00:07:56,350 --> 00:07:57,727 NANCY: As if you're getting shit for it? 136 00:07:57,810 --> 00:08:00,646 Sometimes I would cry, sometimes I would laugh. 137 00:08:00,730 --> 00:08:02,148 KEITH: So, what does materialism bring? 138 00:08:02,231 --> 00:08:04,358 Sometimes I would be walking around... 139 00:08:05,943 --> 00:08:08,738 and I would feel like the ground wasn't steady. 140 00:08:08,821 --> 00:08:11,324 KEITH: Your sense of self is different than self-esteem. 141 00:08:12,033 --> 00:08:13,034 Your sense of self is... 142 00:08:13,117 --> 00:08:15,870 I realized that the conversations we had 143 00:08:15,953 --> 00:08:18,039 had somehow shifted my perspective. 144 00:08:21,667 --> 00:08:24,086 And I was far more positive than I was 145 00:08:24,170 --> 00:08:27,548 when I met him. Like, far more positive. 146 00:08:30,676 --> 00:08:32,595 ♪ (MUSIC FADING) ♪ 147 00:08:32,678 --> 00:08:35,431 At a certain point, I said to him, 148 00:08:35,514 --> 00:08:37,808 "Can I watch you use this model?" 149 00:08:37,892 --> 00:08:41,145 And he said, "What do you mean?" And I said, "Like on a person. 150 00:08:41,229 --> 00:08:43,105 Can I, like, watch you use this on a per-- 151 00:08:43,189 --> 00:08:44,357 Could you get a person 152 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:45,858 and let me watch you do a session?" 153 00:08:45,942 --> 00:08:48,194 And he said to me, "You mean other than you?" 154 00:08:48,277 --> 00:08:50,571 ♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 155 00:08:50,655 --> 00:08:55,284 NANCY: I had never seen anything like what he did before. 156 00:08:55,368 --> 00:08:59,288 And I'd never experienced anything like what he did before, myself. 157 00:09:00,790 --> 00:09:04,627 If I could help people in that short amount of time, 158 00:09:04,710 --> 00:09:07,255 the way that he does, I would do anything. 159 00:09:09,090 --> 00:09:12,718 He said, "If you want me to mentor you, 160 00:09:12,802 --> 00:09:15,304 you have to agree to work with me 161 00:09:15,388 --> 00:09:17,932 for the rest of your life." 162 00:09:18,015 --> 00:09:21,310 And I said to him, "Under what conditions would we not 163 00:09:21,394 --> 00:09:24,272 work for the rest of our life?" And he said, 164 00:09:24,355 --> 00:09:28,859 "If I ever believe that you are using the curriculum 165 00:09:28,943 --> 00:09:30,611 in an unethical manner, 166 00:09:30,695 --> 00:09:33,239 then that would be the end of our relationship." 167 00:09:35,199 --> 00:09:37,702 And that's what I signed up for. 168 00:09:37,785 --> 00:09:40,997 -(SIRENS BLARING) -(TRAFFIC WHOOSHING) 169 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:42,957 ♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪ 170 00:09:50,923 --> 00:09:54,302 EMILY SAUL: Maybe in the beginning, NXIVM helped people. 171 00:09:55,303 --> 00:09:57,179 So then what happened that, like, 172 00:09:57,263 --> 00:09:59,307 suddenly pushed that envelope? 173 00:10:00,766 --> 00:10:02,852 There's something in this that lead Raniere 174 00:10:02,935 --> 00:10:06,814 to believe that he needed, you know, followers, 175 00:10:06,897 --> 00:10:08,190 or that he needed, you know, 176 00:10:08,274 --> 00:10:12,403 this society that just really, like, 177 00:10:12,486 --> 00:10:14,363 enveloped and protected him. 178 00:10:14,447 --> 00:10:17,158 It's like, was he suddenly there without realizing it? 179 00:10:17,241 --> 00:10:18,451 Or was that the goal? 180 00:10:20,494 --> 00:10:23,080 -Okay. -♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 181 00:10:23,164 --> 00:10:24,498 EMILY: Prosecutors still haven't said 182 00:10:24,582 --> 00:10:26,375 who their initial witnesses are gonna be. 183 00:10:27,084 --> 00:10:28,419 I'm just super curious. 184 00:10:28,502 --> 00:10:30,212 They could either start, like, with a bang 185 00:10:30,296 --> 00:10:33,341 right out of the door, with, like, a big witness. 186 00:10:33,424 --> 00:10:35,426 Allison Mack, Lauren Salzman... 187 00:10:36,969 --> 00:10:39,764 It's also possible Nancy could testify. 188 00:10:39,847 --> 00:10:41,724 She's someone who was very close to him 189 00:10:41,807 --> 00:10:44,060 and has intimate knowledge of what was happening. 190 00:10:45,853 --> 00:10:47,688 Or we could slowly build. 191 00:10:47,772 --> 00:10:49,982 We know we're getting Mark Vicente. 192 00:10:50,066 --> 00:10:53,361 You know, he's one of the closest men to Keith. 193 00:10:53,444 --> 00:10:55,488 It'd be a really tough thing to live with to, like, 194 00:10:55,571 --> 00:10:56,906 suddenly have your world fall apart 195 00:10:56,989 --> 00:10:59,658 and also to have it be like, "Oh, this person 196 00:10:59,742 --> 00:11:01,744 I looked up to so much... 197 00:11:01,827 --> 00:11:04,413 is actually just victimizing everybody around me." 198 00:11:11,504 --> 00:11:13,130 ♪ (MELANCHOLIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 199 00:11:13,214 --> 00:11:16,467 MARK VICENTE: I will be the witness against Raniere, 200 00:11:16,550 --> 00:11:19,553 facing him for the first time in about two years. 201 00:11:21,722 --> 00:11:22,807 I'm terrified. 202 00:11:25,184 --> 00:11:26,685 If he gets off, then it's back 203 00:11:26,769 --> 00:11:28,813 to just full-blown battle stations. 204 00:11:28,896 --> 00:11:30,481 And then they're coming after us. 205 00:11:30,564 --> 00:11:32,775 (TRAIN RUMBLES) 206 00:11:38,239 --> 00:11:39,782 (DIAL TONE RINGING) 207 00:12:11,772 --> 00:12:13,065 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 208 00:12:18,737 --> 00:12:20,781 EDUARDO ASUNSOLO: When we got that call, you know, 209 00:12:20,865 --> 00:12:24,243 I never imagined we would be here right now. 210 00:12:25,703 --> 00:12:27,580 ♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 211 00:12:27,663 --> 00:12:29,206 EDUARDO: The next time I talked to Nippy, 212 00:12:29,290 --> 00:12:32,460 he was scared like I've never seen him before. 213 00:12:33,544 --> 00:12:36,839 And I was his best friend for a decade. 214 00:12:36,922 --> 00:12:39,967 He kept texting me, "Dude, this is bad. 215 00:12:40,050 --> 00:12:41,302 You have to hear this." 216 00:12:42,011 --> 00:12:43,637 (DIAL TONE RINGING) 217 00:12:43,721 --> 00:12:45,097 EDUARDO: Mark called me. 218 00:12:46,390 --> 00:12:47,600 The first thing he said is like, 219 00:12:47,683 --> 00:12:49,977 "This is gonna turn your world upside down." 220 00:12:51,604 --> 00:12:53,981 He told me in that phone call Sarah had a brand. 221 00:12:55,774 --> 00:12:59,153 And he basically invited me, in a sense, 222 00:12:59,236 --> 00:13:01,572 to the campaign that they were gonna conduct 223 00:13:01,655 --> 00:13:03,491 to go after Keith. 224 00:13:03,574 --> 00:13:05,618 And then I called Sarah, and said, "I'm sorry that 225 00:13:05,701 --> 00:13:07,578 something like this happens to you." 226 00:13:07,661 --> 00:13:11,749 Where I grew up, if there's women being abused 227 00:13:11,832 --> 00:13:14,293 and held down, you run towards where they are. 228 00:13:15,461 --> 00:13:17,046 -How you doing? -KEITH: I'm good. How are you? 229 00:13:17,129 --> 00:13:19,715 Then I flew to Albany to investigate, 230 00:13:19,798 --> 00:13:21,175 to talk to Keith, to talk to Allison, 231 00:13:21,258 --> 00:13:23,135 to talk to Lauren, to talk to everyone. 232 00:13:23,219 --> 00:13:26,013 I found a sorority, I found things that were not only 233 00:13:26,096 --> 00:13:29,308 not criminal, but maybe even good. 234 00:13:29,391 --> 00:13:33,395 Yes, edgy, but all these women are women that I respect. 235 00:13:37,274 --> 00:13:39,693 So I was working on people that are ready to die 236 00:13:39,777 --> 00:13:40,778 for a principle. 237 00:13:41,445 --> 00:13:43,239 And as I practice it, 238 00:13:43,322 --> 00:13:45,783 -I felt, like, determination. -KEITH: Very good. Yeah. 239 00:13:45,866 --> 00:13:48,911 They perceive themselves going against adversity. 240 00:13:48,994 --> 00:13:51,539 They perceive themselves going into the fire. 241 00:13:54,667 --> 00:13:56,585 EDUARDO: The curriculum of ESP 242 00:13:56,669 --> 00:13:59,672 that Keith and Nancy has created... 243 00:13:59,755 --> 00:14:04,260 My life has been amazingly bettered by them. 244 00:14:04,343 --> 00:14:06,470 You know, Nancy, I don't think I would be a father 245 00:14:06,554 --> 00:14:07,763 if it wasn't for her. 246 00:14:09,098 --> 00:14:10,599 My wife and I, we're trying to get pregnant, 247 00:14:10,683 --> 00:14:13,227 there was some personal stuff and physical stuff 248 00:14:13,310 --> 00:14:16,272 and, you know, she walked us through it and I, 249 00:14:16,897 --> 00:14:18,107 you know, I honestly... 250 00:14:25,990 --> 00:14:28,033 I think, I mean being a dad is the best thing 251 00:14:28,117 --> 00:14:29,410 that has happened to me and... 252 00:14:30,578 --> 00:14:31,829 I don't think without Nancy and Keith, 253 00:14:31,912 --> 00:14:34,415 I would be the loving father and husband that I am, 254 00:14:34,498 --> 00:14:37,001 and there's thousands of people 255 00:14:37,084 --> 00:14:38,460 that would tell you similar stories. 256 00:14:38,544 --> 00:14:41,964 So, when these people started getting arrested... 257 00:14:42,047 --> 00:14:45,426 Um, I don't know, it's like... 258 00:14:46,510 --> 00:14:48,679 it's like, the whole world is upside down. 259 00:14:51,557 --> 00:14:53,434 (BIRDS CHIRPING) 260 00:14:57,563 --> 00:15:00,024 ♪ (MUSIC FADING) ♪ 261 00:15:02,484 --> 00:15:06,614 NANCY: After a year of home confinement, 262 00:15:06,697 --> 00:15:10,951 I'm in a situation where I have a curfew. 263 00:15:12,786 --> 00:15:15,205 I'm allowed to leave the house from 7:00 in the morning 264 00:15:15,289 --> 00:15:16,624 until 9:00 at night. 265 00:15:18,459 --> 00:15:21,211 But I can't go anywhere without asking permission. 266 00:15:25,382 --> 00:15:27,134 So, we're going to my old house. 267 00:15:28,093 --> 00:15:31,263 I lived in this house for, uh... 268 00:15:31,347 --> 00:15:33,474 What did I live there for? Thirteen years. 269 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,270 (CAR ENGINE DECELERATING) 270 00:15:38,354 --> 00:15:40,064 (KEYS JINGLING) 271 00:15:40,147 --> 00:15:42,775 (DOG BARKING IN DISTANCE) 272 00:15:45,361 --> 00:15:49,281 -(DOOR CLOSING) -I used to see my a.m. clients in this room. 273 00:15:52,743 --> 00:15:55,746 ♪ (WISTFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 274 00:15:55,829 --> 00:15:57,164 (SIGHS) 275 00:15:57,247 --> 00:15:59,291 -Hiya. -(NANCY CHUCKLES) 276 00:15:59,375 --> 00:16:00,793 NXIVM MEMBER 1: That's a problem. 277 00:16:00,876 --> 00:16:03,379 With the statistics and all the other stuff. 278 00:16:03,462 --> 00:16:05,673 I get a whole load of shit from Twitter. 279 00:16:06,632 --> 00:16:08,467 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 280 00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:09,718 It's the first time I've seen it. 281 00:16:09,802 --> 00:16:11,595 -Did I write that? -NXIVM MEMBER 2: You wrote that. 282 00:16:11,679 --> 00:16:13,222 I don't say that, but... 283 00:16:13,305 --> 00:16:16,433 ♪ (EMOTIONAL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 284 00:16:21,230 --> 00:16:25,859 NANCY: Never in a million years would I have ever imagined 285 00:16:25,943 --> 00:16:30,114 the life I lived, being the prefect of ESP. 286 00:16:32,116 --> 00:16:33,951 ♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 287 00:16:34,034 --> 00:16:36,995 NANCY: He was very kind in the beginning, 288 00:16:37,079 --> 00:16:39,373 and he gave me everything I wanted. 289 00:16:40,457 --> 00:16:42,376 Like, he gave me a company. 290 00:16:43,669 --> 00:16:46,255 He gave me tools. 291 00:16:46,338 --> 00:16:49,091 He let me teach, he let me do everything I loved. 292 00:16:49,174 --> 00:16:50,634 This is the world the way I want it, 293 00:16:50,718 --> 00:16:52,553 and this is the world the way it is. 294 00:16:52,636 --> 00:16:55,347 If these line up, remember what we call that? 295 00:16:57,182 --> 00:16:58,684 (AUDIENCE CHUCKLING) 296 00:16:58,767 --> 00:17:01,937 NANCY: We started really small with 20 students 297 00:17:02,020 --> 00:17:04,732 in my old office in Albany. 298 00:17:04,815 --> 00:17:08,152 And we had 100 students within a month. 299 00:17:08,235 --> 00:17:09,236 Okay. 300 00:17:13,907 --> 00:17:15,159 How about we start with parasites? 301 00:17:15,242 --> 00:17:17,244 I really believed in the education. 302 00:17:18,537 --> 00:17:20,956 And that's why my daughters joined our organization. 303 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:23,709 So, we wanna grow the organization. 304 00:17:23,792 --> 00:17:26,754 So what starts out, maybe, with ten people, 305 00:17:26,837 --> 00:17:29,339 becomes 100, becomes 1000. 306 00:17:29,423 --> 00:17:31,967 NANCY: We have opened up centers all over the world. 307 00:17:32,718 --> 00:17:35,304 (AUDIENCE CHEERING, APPLAUDING) 308 00:17:35,387 --> 00:17:37,598 (AUDIENCE CHEERING, APPLAUDING) 309 00:17:37,681 --> 00:17:39,558 (ALEX BETANCOURT SPEAKING IN SPANISH) 310 00:17:49,610 --> 00:17:52,112 -(INDISTINCT) -(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) 311 00:17:52,196 --> 00:17:55,783 NANCY: (IN ENGLISH) When I first went to Mexico, on day two, 312 00:17:55,866 --> 00:17:57,326 Alex says to me, 313 00:17:57,409 --> 00:17:58,827 "I don't wanna hurt your feelings 314 00:17:58,911 --> 00:18:00,412 but I need to tell you something 315 00:18:00,496 --> 00:18:02,372 because I really want you to be successful 316 00:18:02,456 --> 00:18:03,665 here in Mexico." 317 00:18:03,749 --> 00:18:06,126 And he says, "Honestly... 318 00:18:07,252 --> 00:18:09,421 you look like a middle-class American woman." 319 00:18:10,589 --> 00:18:12,257 And I say, 320 00:18:12,341 --> 00:18:16,428 "Alex, I am a middle-class American woman." 321 00:18:18,388 --> 00:18:21,600 And he says, "I have to take you shopping." 322 00:18:23,352 --> 00:18:25,896 So, he puts me in a dressing room with a woman, 323 00:18:25,979 --> 00:18:30,567 who starts handing me 2200 and 2500-dollar jackets. 324 00:18:31,777 --> 00:18:33,153 I just started my company, 325 00:18:33,237 --> 00:18:36,156 I'm having a panic attack in the dressing room. 326 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:40,077 I remember, I called Keith and Keith says, 327 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:44,206 "Nancy, if Alex says you need to spend 20,000 dollars 328 00:18:44,289 --> 00:18:47,960 on a wardrobe, you spend 20,000 dollars on a wardrobe." 329 00:18:48,043 --> 00:18:49,586 And I'm like... 330 00:18:49,670 --> 00:18:51,964 Like, I'm a little Jewish girl from New Jersey, 331 00:18:52,047 --> 00:18:54,132 whose mother taught her how to shop. (CHUCKLES) 332 00:18:55,509 --> 00:18:58,971 Five suits, 20,000 dollars. I buy 'em. 333 00:18:59,054 --> 00:19:02,140 -(CAMERA SHUTTER CLICKING) -♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 334 00:19:02,224 --> 00:19:05,060 NANCY: I wanted to affect as many people as I could, 335 00:19:05,144 --> 00:19:07,437 and I got really busy with that. 336 00:19:07,521 --> 00:19:09,398 I slept three or four hours a day. 337 00:19:09,481 --> 00:19:10,566 (ALARM BEEPS) 338 00:19:12,901 --> 00:19:15,404 For 20 years, I had studied human potential 339 00:19:15,487 --> 00:19:18,907 and I couldn't understand what would motivate people 340 00:19:18,991 --> 00:19:20,617 to want to change. 341 00:19:20,701 --> 00:19:21,910 And this is what's very different 342 00:19:21,994 --> 00:19:23,036 about our attack. 343 00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:25,163 We are going all the way down. 344 00:19:25,247 --> 00:19:27,916 Down here we call this the "deep structure." 345 00:19:32,546 --> 00:19:35,841 And we have been an organization that is maturing 346 00:19:35,924 --> 00:19:40,053 and a stability, that I think can withstand 347 00:19:40,137 --> 00:19:42,472 what comes against us in the world. 348 00:19:44,141 --> 00:19:46,184 This is funny, this is in O magazine, 349 00:19:46,268 --> 00:19:48,937 I coached the art director. 350 00:19:49,021 --> 00:19:51,273 It says, "Nancy Salzman, president of NXIVM Corp, 351 00:19:51,356 --> 00:19:54,109 offers the coaching and motivational workshops." 352 00:19:55,569 --> 00:19:56,778 Keith wanted us 353 00:19:56,862 --> 00:19:59,448 to get to the highest areas of entertainment. 354 00:20:00,032 --> 00:20:02,075 (AUDIENCE CHEERING) 355 00:20:02,159 --> 00:20:04,244 NANCY: The highest areas of government. 356 00:20:04,328 --> 00:20:07,039 Hello. My name is Emiliano Salinas. 357 00:20:07,122 --> 00:20:09,166 I come from a political family. 358 00:20:09,249 --> 00:20:12,628 I mean you have so much, it's such a rich country... 359 00:20:12,711 --> 00:20:16,298 The highest level of every area of human endeavor. 360 00:20:17,341 --> 00:20:18,342 Thank you. 361 00:20:19,134 --> 00:20:20,677 Thank you. 362 00:20:20,761 --> 00:20:24,389 NANCY: I thought that if people could understand each other 363 00:20:24,473 --> 00:20:28,810 and the human struggle, we could resolve any problems. 364 00:20:28,894 --> 00:20:30,812 Any problems in the world. 365 00:20:30,896 --> 00:20:33,941 -(AUDIENCE APPLAUDS) -AUDIENCE MEMBER: Whoo! 366 00:20:35,525 --> 00:20:37,402 NANCY: And for people to believe 367 00:20:37,486 --> 00:20:40,447 it was just a big scam of a sex cult. 368 00:20:44,034 --> 00:20:46,495 It's so horrendous. 369 00:20:46,578 --> 00:20:49,331 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 370 00:20:49,414 --> 00:20:50,999 (SIRENS WAILING) 371 00:20:54,962 --> 00:20:56,755 (KEYBOARD CLATTERING) 372 00:20:59,091 --> 00:21:01,969 MARC AGNIFILO: I mean this case is a highly sexual case. 373 00:21:02,052 --> 00:21:06,306 There's a lot of very intense sexual conversations. 374 00:21:08,183 --> 00:21:10,727 I'm really worried about people pre-judging Keith 375 00:21:10,811 --> 00:21:12,104 because of his lifestyle. 376 00:21:14,731 --> 00:21:16,900 I need jurors to come into this with an open heart 377 00:21:16,984 --> 00:21:18,235 and listen to this story. 378 00:21:21,655 --> 00:21:23,740 (CAR ENGINE HUMMING) 379 00:21:23,824 --> 00:21:28,412 MARC: Keith said something today that I thought was very smart. 380 00:21:28,996 --> 00:21:30,497 He's like, you know, 381 00:21:30,580 --> 00:21:34,167 he's like, "This is like a-- like a family feud, 382 00:21:34,251 --> 00:21:37,421 and everything that the government says is bad 383 00:21:37,504 --> 00:21:41,008 was all us doing stuff to each other. 384 00:21:41,091 --> 00:21:42,676 You know? I mean we didn't-- 385 00:21:42,759 --> 00:21:45,012 You know, we didn't hurt anybody else. 386 00:21:46,304 --> 00:21:49,182 And then there was a division within the family. 387 00:21:50,308 --> 00:21:53,061 And now, the family is destroyed." 388 00:21:53,145 --> 00:21:55,022 ♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 389 00:21:55,105 --> 00:21:57,858 MARC: This trial's kinda terrifying 390 00:21:57,941 --> 00:22:00,318 because the stakes are so high. 391 00:22:01,236 --> 00:22:03,280 I feel his life is in my hands. 392 00:22:03,363 --> 00:22:05,532 I feel like his life's work is in my hands. 393 00:22:07,868 --> 00:22:10,495 I only got one chance to do this. 394 00:22:10,579 --> 00:22:13,540 And I just have to do it a hundred percent. 395 00:22:13,623 --> 00:22:14,791 (SENSOR BEEPS) 396 00:22:16,835 --> 00:22:18,879 ♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 397 00:22:19,921 --> 00:22:22,007 MOIRA PENZA: There has not been a case 398 00:22:22,090 --> 00:22:23,508 that measures up to this 399 00:22:23,592 --> 00:22:26,094 in terms of personal importance to me. 400 00:22:27,721 --> 00:22:32,059 I believe that Keith Raniere is a very dangerous man. 401 00:22:32,142 --> 00:22:34,978 He victimized so many people. 402 00:22:35,062 --> 00:22:37,981 It was really the psychological torture 403 00:22:38,065 --> 00:22:43,070 of women in a systemic fashion for decades. 404 00:22:43,153 --> 00:22:46,740 I really think that this case can shine a light 405 00:22:46,823 --> 00:22:48,617 on some really dark things 406 00:22:48,700 --> 00:22:50,744 that had happened for a very long time. 407 00:22:52,496 --> 00:22:55,499 ♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 408 00:23:03,465 --> 00:23:04,716 NEWS REPORTER 1: This is the beginning 409 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,551 of what is turning out to be one of 410 00:23:06,635 --> 00:23:08,136 the most sensational trials 411 00:23:08,220 --> 00:23:10,555 as prosecutors paint Keith as a predator 412 00:23:10,639 --> 00:23:12,015 who preyed on women. 413 00:23:12,933 --> 00:23:14,142 (SPEAKS IN SPANISH) 414 00:23:17,896 --> 00:23:20,107 NEWS REPORTER 2: (IN ENGLISH) Keith Raniere is facing a total 415 00:23:20,190 --> 00:23:21,358 of seven charges. 416 00:23:21,441 --> 00:23:25,862 (NEWS REPORTER 3 SPEAKING SPANISH) 417 00:23:28,573 --> 00:23:31,118 NEWS REPORTER 4: (IN ENGLISH) Prosecutors say the organization is actually 418 00:23:31,201 --> 00:23:34,621 a cult involved sex slavery, branding its members, 419 00:23:34,704 --> 00:23:36,123 and recruiting celebrities. 420 00:23:36,206 --> 00:23:38,667 We hear about some of these things happening sometimes 421 00:23:38,750 --> 00:23:40,168 and we think, "Oh, it's so horrifying. 422 00:23:40,252 --> 00:23:41,503 This is awful. How does this happen?" 423 00:23:41,586 --> 00:23:44,172 But it doesn't necessarily mean it's criminal. 424 00:23:44,256 --> 00:23:46,341 Coercion, that's what really important 425 00:23:46,424 --> 00:23:47,676 from a legal perspective. 426 00:23:49,928 --> 00:23:52,055 EMILY: You just need one person for a hung jury. 427 00:23:52,139 --> 00:23:54,266 I don't know what the defense is thinking but sometimes 428 00:23:54,349 --> 00:23:56,017 that's all you can hope for. 429 00:23:56,101 --> 00:23:57,519 We'll just see what happens. 430 00:23:59,229 --> 00:24:02,816 ♪ (MUSIC FADING) ♪ 431 00:24:02,899 --> 00:24:05,694 NIPPY AMES: So yeah, we're here, day one, trial. 432 00:24:05,777 --> 00:24:07,487 I'm just kind of interested in the process 433 00:24:07,571 --> 00:24:10,198 as well as what the, uh, defense is gonna try. 434 00:24:12,492 --> 00:24:14,452 His supporters were all there today. 435 00:24:14,536 --> 00:24:17,080 Whatever happens, they're gonna make work 436 00:24:17,164 --> 00:24:18,248 for their narrative. 437 00:24:18,331 --> 00:24:20,000 They're just gonna go, "See, we told you, 438 00:24:20,083 --> 00:24:21,334 they're out to railroad him." 439 00:24:22,961 --> 00:24:25,422 ♪ (TENSE MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪ 440 00:24:57,954 --> 00:24:59,748 JUDGE GARAUFIS: Ms. Hajjar, you may proceed 441 00:24:59,831 --> 00:25:01,291 with the government's opening statement. 442 00:25:03,627 --> 00:25:05,253 TANYA HAJJAR: The defendant, Keith Raniere, 443 00:25:05,337 --> 00:25:08,882 claimed to be a leader. But he was a con man. 444 00:25:08,965 --> 00:25:10,050 He targeted people 445 00:25:10,133 --> 00:25:12,761 who were looking to improve their lives. 446 00:25:12,844 --> 00:25:15,889 He drew them in slowly with promises of success, 447 00:25:15,972 --> 00:25:18,475 money, better relationships. 448 00:25:18,558 --> 00:25:22,479 And once he gained their trust, he exploited it. 449 00:25:22,562 --> 00:25:25,357 The defendant was the leader of a criminal organization 450 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:26,733 in Upstate New York. 451 00:25:26,816 --> 00:25:30,654 And he relied on an inner circle of followers who supported him 452 00:25:30,737 --> 00:25:34,574 and promoted him, and committed crimes for him. 453 00:25:34,658 --> 00:25:37,744 He said this was all about women's empowerment. 454 00:25:37,827 --> 00:25:40,789 But during this trial, the evidence will show 455 00:25:40,872 --> 00:25:43,416 that what the defendant wanted had nothing to do 456 00:25:43,500 --> 00:25:46,503 with empowering women and had everything to do 457 00:25:46,586 --> 00:25:48,296 with enslaving them. 458 00:25:48,380 --> 00:25:50,674 ♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 459 00:25:50,757 --> 00:25:52,467 MARC: Seventeen thousand people 460 00:25:52,550 --> 00:25:53,635 took NXIVM courses. 461 00:25:54,719 --> 00:25:59,474 Successful people, CEOs, executives, actors. 462 00:25:59,557 --> 00:26:02,727 And not because they were bamboozled or fooled. 463 00:26:02,811 --> 00:26:05,605 They took them because they got something out of them. 464 00:26:07,107 --> 00:26:08,817 There's going to be evidence Keith Raniere 465 00:26:08,900 --> 00:26:12,570 had multiple intimate partners over a very long period of time. 466 00:26:14,114 --> 00:26:16,408 And you might say, "I don't like that. 467 00:26:17,158 --> 00:26:18,743 I think it's morally wrong." 468 00:26:19,953 --> 00:26:21,788 You're absolutely entitled to that opinion 469 00:26:21,871 --> 00:26:23,623 but that's not one of the charges. 470 00:26:25,667 --> 00:26:28,169 You're gonna find parts of this case distasteful 471 00:26:28,253 --> 00:26:30,672 and inconsistent with your own morality. 472 00:26:31,464 --> 00:26:32,716 And that's okay. 473 00:26:32,799 --> 00:26:36,136 You see, I don't have to defend everything to win this case. 474 00:26:37,470 --> 00:26:40,682 But one thing I am gonna defend is his intentions. 475 00:26:41,766 --> 00:26:43,727 I'm gonna defend his good faith. 476 00:26:46,479 --> 00:26:48,481 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 477 00:26:50,859 --> 00:26:52,736 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 478 00:27:02,746 --> 00:27:05,957 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 479 00:27:06,041 --> 00:27:08,752 Agnifilo seems to have the mind 480 00:27:08,835 --> 00:27:10,879 where he can take things out of context 481 00:27:10,962 --> 00:27:13,381 and water you down in content points 482 00:27:13,465 --> 00:27:16,676 and forget that this is someone with an agenda 483 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,219 that's clandestine. 484 00:27:18,303 --> 00:27:20,221 So, yeah, he basically preempts everyone, 485 00:27:20,305 --> 00:27:22,724 admits that there's gonna be salacious stuff coming. 486 00:27:22,807 --> 00:27:28,146 I think in a hopes to disarm or normalize egregious behavior, 487 00:27:28,229 --> 00:27:30,357 I can see how he might convince the jury. 488 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,275 You can see how people get off. 489 00:27:33,068 --> 00:27:34,069 You know? 490 00:27:35,779 --> 00:27:38,239 ♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 491 00:27:38,323 --> 00:27:41,326 JUDGE GARAUFIS: The government may call its first witness. 492 00:27:41,409 --> 00:27:42,494 MOIRA: The government calls 493 00:27:42,577 --> 00:27:45,121 the witness who'll be identified as Sylvie. 494 00:27:46,456 --> 00:27:49,250 What was really important about Sylvie as a first witness 495 00:27:49,334 --> 00:27:54,255 is we got right to the heart of the allegations about DOS, 496 00:27:54,339 --> 00:27:57,967 which is Sylvie being brought into 497 00:27:58,051 --> 00:28:01,554 what she believes to be a women's empowerment group 498 00:28:01,638 --> 00:28:06,476 and how very quickly it turned so very dark and disturbing. 499 00:28:08,895 --> 00:28:11,439 Okay, Sylvie, how long were you a part 500 00:28:11,523 --> 00:28:13,733 of the organization named NXIVM? 501 00:28:13,817 --> 00:28:15,110 Thirteen years. 502 00:28:15,485 --> 00:28:19,697 (CHEERING) 503 00:28:21,699 --> 00:28:24,244 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 504 00:28:24,953 --> 00:28:26,413 KEITH: Till next year. 505 00:28:26,496 --> 00:28:28,540 -SYLVIE: Next year, I'm gonna beef up. -NANCY: We're gonna feed you. 506 00:28:28,623 --> 00:28:30,083 -Yeah. -(BOTH LAUGH) 507 00:28:30,166 --> 00:28:33,962 Even... even an extra pound makes a difference. 508 00:28:34,045 --> 00:28:35,380 We will train you. 509 00:28:35,463 --> 00:28:38,133 SYLVIE: Yes. I really wanna-- No, I do really wanna do that. 510 00:28:38,216 --> 00:28:39,426 Okay. 511 00:28:39,509 --> 00:28:42,220 -SYLVIE: Sick. Let's do it. -♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 512 00:28:42,303 --> 00:28:43,680 SYLVIE: Growing up, 513 00:28:43,763 --> 00:28:46,224 -I always wanted to be an equestrian. -(HORSE WHINNIES) 514 00:28:46,307 --> 00:28:50,186 SYLVIE: At a competition in Helsinki, I met Clare Bronfman, 515 00:28:50,270 --> 00:28:52,188 who was an elite rider at the time. 516 00:28:54,691 --> 00:28:56,901 Clare encouraged me to take the curriculum. 517 00:28:56,985 --> 00:29:00,530 And in my mind, I thought I could become a coach. 518 00:29:00,613 --> 00:29:03,116 That would show Clare that I was committed to my growth 519 00:29:03,199 --> 00:29:05,368 and potentially put me in her good favor. 520 00:29:06,786 --> 00:29:10,248 So, I signed up to take the five-day intensive. 521 00:29:10,331 --> 00:29:11,666 ♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 522 00:29:11,749 --> 00:29:14,586 SYLVIE: The first day was quite overwhelming for me. 523 00:29:14,669 --> 00:29:17,172 The first thing you see when you walk in the door 524 00:29:17,255 --> 00:29:19,883 are these rather large pictures of Keith Raniere 525 00:29:19,966 --> 00:29:21,259 and Nancy Sulzman. 526 00:29:23,678 --> 00:29:26,848 Everyone was very enthusiastic about Keith. 527 00:29:26,931 --> 00:29:30,602 That kind of idealization of any one individual 528 00:29:30,685 --> 00:29:34,606 was so far outside anything I've ever experienced before. 529 00:29:37,817 --> 00:29:38,818 MOIRA: Okay, Sylvie, 530 00:29:38,902 --> 00:29:41,321 are you familiar with this document? 531 00:29:41,404 --> 00:29:43,823 SYLVIE: Yeah, that's the mission statement. 532 00:29:45,158 --> 00:29:49,454 (NXIVM MEMBERS READING IN UNISON) 533 00:30:01,382 --> 00:30:03,927 SYLVIE: This was something that was taught a lot. 534 00:30:04,010 --> 00:30:07,722 The idea is that there is really no such thing as victims 535 00:30:07,805 --> 00:30:11,392 and anything that happens to you is created by you. 536 00:30:12,644 --> 00:30:14,812 In the entire organization, you have this concept 537 00:30:14,896 --> 00:30:16,064 of being at cause. 538 00:30:18,942 --> 00:30:21,528 Which is the main concept 539 00:30:21,611 --> 00:30:24,030 for it to work the way it does. 540 00:30:24,113 --> 00:30:27,158 It's like you are responsible, not only responsible 541 00:30:27,242 --> 00:30:29,536 but you're at cause in your emotions. 542 00:30:29,619 --> 00:30:31,496 You're at cause in your life. 543 00:30:31,579 --> 00:30:35,124 I am causing my own emotions, I am not a victim of anybody. 544 00:30:35,208 --> 00:30:37,252 You wanna be a victim? No, I don't wanna be a victim. 545 00:30:37,335 --> 00:30:38,920 Good. There's no ultimate victims. 546 00:30:39,003 --> 00:30:40,922 Therefore, I will not choose to be a victim. 547 00:30:41,005 --> 00:30:42,674 I am committed to my success. 548 00:30:44,676 --> 00:30:48,930 What I was hearing from so many of the people 549 00:30:49,013 --> 00:30:53,768 that I was speaking to was this concern 550 00:30:53,851 --> 00:30:57,772 that they had done something to cause the situation 551 00:30:57,855 --> 00:30:59,899 that they had ended up in 552 00:30:59,983 --> 00:31:04,237 based on the idea that you're being a victim. 553 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:09,117 Which really was a key tenet of the NXIVM curriculum. 554 00:31:11,494 --> 00:31:12,537 Okay, Sylvie, 555 00:31:12,620 --> 00:31:15,915 I wanna show you government exhibit 1005. 556 00:31:15,999 --> 00:31:19,294 Most people scream abuse and they have no idea 557 00:31:19,377 --> 00:31:21,629 of the morality of what they are talking about. 558 00:31:21,713 --> 00:31:26,718 A lot of times, the screaming of abuse is abuse in itself, 559 00:31:26,801 --> 00:31:28,803 'cause we're talking about abusing abuse. 560 00:31:28,886 --> 00:31:31,598 Because they have no idea what they are talking about, 561 00:31:31,681 --> 00:31:34,559 there's some inconvenient thing happening 562 00:31:34,642 --> 00:31:37,478 and they wish it were different and they yell "abuse." 563 00:31:37,562 --> 00:31:41,107 It is not necessarily abuse so they abuse. 564 00:31:41,190 --> 00:31:42,775 It's very powerful, right? 565 00:31:44,694 --> 00:31:45,987 MOIRA: Was that type of concept 566 00:31:46,070 --> 00:31:48,072 something that you were familiar with? 567 00:31:48,156 --> 00:31:49,824 SYLVIE: Yeah. Definitely. 568 00:31:49,907 --> 00:31:51,784 MOIRA: And how did you understand it? 569 00:31:51,868 --> 00:31:54,370 SYLVIE: That anything that happened to you 570 00:31:54,454 --> 00:31:56,080 is your own fault. 571 00:31:56,164 --> 00:31:57,790 And if you call it abuse, 572 00:31:57,874 --> 00:32:00,501 then you're just trying to get out of the responsibility 573 00:32:00,585 --> 00:32:02,629 that it was your fault somehow. 574 00:32:02,712 --> 00:32:04,505 That women are kind of yelling "abuse" 575 00:32:04,589 --> 00:32:06,257 and wanting to be victims. 576 00:32:07,425 --> 00:32:09,594 MOIRA: Do you believe that that type of teaching 577 00:32:09,677 --> 00:32:12,639 impacted you in any way in the decisions you made? 578 00:32:12,722 --> 00:32:14,140 SYLVIE: Definitely. 579 00:32:14,223 --> 00:32:17,185 I just felt like I couldn't trust myself... 580 00:32:17,268 --> 00:32:19,354 with what I thought was right and wrong. 581 00:32:22,565 --> 00:32:25,234 MOIRA: Okay, Sylvie, did a fellow NXIVM member 582 00:32:25,318 --> 00:32:28,488 approach you about participating in a secret project? 583 00:32:29,072 --> 00:32:30,323 SYLVIE: Yes. 584 00:32:30,406 --> 00:32:33,326 She said to me, "You seem really unhappy." 585 00:32:33,409 --> 00:32:36,162 She told me that she had this special project 586 00:32:36,245 --> 00:32:40,124 and that it had nothing to do with ESP or NXIVM. 587 00:32:40,208 --> 00:32:42,543 It was something that could really help me. 588 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,422 She was someone that I felt I could trust. 589 00:32:47,507 --> 00:32:49,133 But she couldn't tell me what it was 590 00:32:49,217 --> 00:32:51,844 unless I was willing to provide some collateral. 591 00:32:53,638 --> 00:32:56,265 ♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 592 00:32:59,018 --> 00:33:00,770 EMILY: So, she tries to work out, like, 593 00:33:00,853 --> 00:33:03,564 collateral that's damaging enough. 594 00:33:03,648 --> 00:33:07,068 And finally, they agree that it would be damaging enough 595 00:33:07,151 --> 00:33:09,987 for her to write a letter to her family 596 00:33:10,071 --> 00:33:11,364 saying that she is a prostitute. 597 00:33:11,447 --> 00:33:14,826 And she puts lots of details in that letter. 598 00:33:14,909 --> 00:33:17,036 She-- I mean, from her testimony, 599 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,497 it sounds like she wrote a sexually explicit letter 600 00:33:19,580 --> 00:33:23,459 to her parents about, you know, her days spent as a sex worker. 601 00:33:25,795 --> 00:33:27,797 Her understanding, so she testified, 602 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,924 was that if she said "no" 603 00:33:30,007 --> 00:33:33,177 to being part of this great, new, self-help project, 604 00:33:33,261 --> 00:33:34,971 the letter would be immediately mailed 605 00:33:35,054 --> 00:33:37,348 to her parents because it was conveniently ready to go. 606 00:33:38,474 --> 00:33:40,393 (CAR HORN BLARING) 607 00:33:40,476 --> 00:33:45,106 First, I was very proud. I was very proud to be invited. 608 00:33:45,189 --> 00:33:50,027 Until I was threatened to have my collateral out. 609 00:33:50,111 --> 00:33:54,240 When you choose to be a part of the vow... 610 00:33:55,658 --> 00:33:58,161 that is your ultimate choice. 611 00:33:58,244 --> 00:34:02,331 Because you are giving a vow of absolute obedience 612 00:34:03,166 --> 00:34:04,500 and you're giving collateral. 613 00:34:04,584 --> 00:34:07,336 This is-- This is an important piece. 614 00:34:07,420 --> 00:34:09,756 So, any moment in the middle of the-- 615 00:34:09,839 --> 00:34:11,716 Like, "I don't want this. I don't want it!" 616 00:34:11,799 --> 00:34:14,969 "You chose it. And we have your collateral." 617 00:34:15,720 --> 00:34:16,721 It's a trick. 618 00:34:18,806 --> 00:34:22,310 I was willing to have that collateral out 619 00:34:22,393 --> 00:34:25,146 because I was not going to be blackmailed. 620 00:34:25,229 --> 00:34:27,732 And that's why I left DOS. 621 00:34:29,150 --> 00:34:31,611 MOIRA: Okay, Sylvie, what happened next? 622 00:34:31,694 --> 00:34:34,947 SYLVIE: Well, shortly after I turned over my collateral, 623 00:34:35,031 --> 00:34:38,618 I was told my assignment was to seduce Keith. 624 00:34:38,701 --> 00:34:42,455 And I was like, "What do you mean, seduce him?" 625 00:34:42,538 --> 00:34:44,791 This is not what I want to do. 626 00:34:44,874 --> 00:34:47,376 But it was the first assignment for my master, 627 00:34:47,460 --> 00:34:49,754 so I didn't really have a choice. 628 00:34:50,838 --> 00:34:54,342 Eventually, I sent Keith a text saying, 629 00:34:54,425 --> 00:34:56,177 "You look hot in your glasses." 630 00:34:56,260 --> 00:35:00,264 And he replied, "You're going to have to do better than that." 631 00:35:02,141 --> 00:35:04,352 He suggested I send him a picture. 632 00:35:04,435 --> 00:35:07,021 So, I sent him a picture of my face. 633 00:35:07,105 --> 00:35:09,982 And then he started prompting me to make the pictures lower 634 00:35:10,066 --> 00:35:14,695 and lower, suggesting I become more and more vulnerable. 635 00:35:14,779 --> 00:35:18,658 And before long, I was texting him nude photos of myself, 636 00:35:19,408 --> 00:35:21,494 posing in provocative ways. 637 00:35:24,330 --> 00:35:27,708 So, any, uh, thoughts, questions? 638 00:35:27,792 --> 00:35:29,919 STUDENT: I was wondering, like would you talk a little bit 639 00:35:30,002 --> 00:35:32,839 about the difference between vulnerability and fear? 640 00:35:32,922 --> 00:35:34,799 KEITH: Vulnerability and fear. 641 00:35:34,882 --> 00:35:37,009 They're bed partners to some degree. 642 00:35:37,969 --> 00:35:40,179 You learn to separate 'em though. 643 00:35:40,263 --> 00:35:42,682 Whenever you go toward vulnerability, 644 00:35:42,765 --> 00:35:44,934 this fear comes up. 645 00:35:45,017 --> 00:35:46,561 And you know how there's some little kids 646 00:35:46,644 --> 00:35:48,563 who like to be scared? 647 00:35:48,646 --> 00:35:51,315 You almost have to do that with the vulnerability. 648 00:35:51,399 --> 00:35:54,527 You almost have to look at where you're scared, 649 00:35:54,610 --> 00:35:57,530 because fear itself is just something in the body. 650 00:35:57,613 --> 00:36:01,784 You can feel tremendous fear and literally push yourself 651 00:36:01,868 --> 00:36:03,077 to do something. 652 00:36:03,161 --> 00:36:06,330 We think of vulnerability as being our lowest state of... 653 00:36:07,790 --> 00:36:10,418 (CLICKS TONGUE) ...being able to have anything. 654 00:36:10,501 --> 00:36:12,920 Gosh, if we're completely vulnerable and naked, 655 00:36:13,004 --> 00:36:16,424 our very soul will be taken from us 656 00:36:16,507 --> 00:36:19,594 and we will be valueless, dying alone. 657 00:36:19,677 --> 00:36:21,095 No one will look at us. 658 00:36:21,178 --> 00:36:24,098 We'll have no connection, no love. 659 00:36:24,181 --> 00:36:27,351 And the truth of the matter is, the more you become acquainted 660 00:36:27,435 --> 00:36:29,937 with vulnerability, the more you realize 661 00:36:30,021 --> 00:36:31,480 you're not gonna dissipate. 662 00:36:31,564 --> 00:36:33,149 And then, it's "Oh, my goodness. 663 00:36:33,232 --> 00:36:34,734 I've been living a myth." 664 00:36:34,817 --> 00:36:36,736 It's a-- So, suddenly, you realize the very thing 665 00:36:36,819 --> 00:36:39,155 that you're scared of is the thing that is strength. 666 00:36:40,323 --> 00:36:42,283 ♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 667 00:36:42,366 --> 00:36:45,494 MOIRA: Did you want to send those pictures to him? 668 00:36:45,578 --> 00:36:48,623 SYLVIE: No. (SIGHS) I had to do it. It was like 669 00:36:48,706 --> 00:36:50,875 this weird assignment, turned quite dark. 670 00:36:52,084 --> 00:36:54,337 And it was really affecting my psyche. 671 00:36:55,671 --> 00:36:59,425 I begged Keith for permission to stop sending the pictures. 672 00:37:00,217 --> 00:37:01,802 He said "Okay, 673 00:37:01,886 --> 00:37:04,388 but the next assignment will be in person." 674 00:37:06,766 --> 00:37:09,602 When I got to Keith's house, he was waiting outside. 675 00:37:11,020 --> 00:37:12,813 He took me to his room, 676 00:37:12,897 --> 00:37:16,275 that had a big bed with dirty white sheets on it. 677 00:37:18,694 --> 00:37:20,613 I was absolutely terrified. 678 00:37:20,696 --> 00:37:22,365 (HEART THUMPING) 679 00:37:22,448 --> 00:37:24,241 SYLVIE: He told me to get undressed 680 00:37:24,325 --> 00:37:26,744 and to lie back on the bed. 681 00:37:26,827 --> 00:37:27,912 So, I did. 682 00:37:29,163 --> 00:37:30,831 And then he went down on me. 683 00:37:30,915 --> 00:37:33,542 -(HEART THUMPING STOPS) -♪ (MUSIC INTENSIFIES, FADES) ♪ 684 00:37:33,626 --> 00:37:36,587 MOIRA: How did that experience compare to what you thought 685 00:37:36,671 --> 00:37:38,005 you were joining with DOS? 686 00:37:38,089 --> 00:37:40,508 SYLVIE: It just felt like a whole different realm 687 00:37:40,591 --> 00:37:42,510 of darkness. 688 00:37:42,593 --> 00:37:46,597 I felt so much shame. And still do, honestly. 689 00:37:51,602 --> 00:37:53,980 These women who are saying that they're victims, 690 00:37:54,063 --> 00:37:55,898 you have to see how do they speak to Keith. 691 00:37:55,982 --> 00:37:57,942 You know, what do they say to him, you know? 692 00:37:58,025 --> 00:37:59,026 And what do they want? 693 00:37:59,110 --> 00:38:00,611 What do they say that they wanted? 694 00:38:01,737 --> 00:38:03,280 That's when the jury's gonna start seeing 695 00:38:03,364 --> 00:38:04,490 what this case is really about. 696 00:38:04,573 --> 00:38:06,575 When we actually get to the evidence. 697 00:38:12,748 --> 00:38:15,209 ♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 698 00:38:15,292 --> 00:38:17,461 MARC: Earlier, you said you started sending Keith 699 00:38:17,545 --> 00:38:19,213 naked photographs, correct? 700 00:38:20,297 --> 00:38:21,298 SYLVIE: Yes. 701 00:38:21,382 --> 00:38:22,758 MARC: And in this particular message, 702 00:38:22,842 --> 00:38:25,886 that's you with a naked torso and under it, you write... 703 00:38:25,970 --> 00:38:28,681 (READS PROMPT) 704 00:38:29,724 --> 00:38:30,766 SYLVIE: That's correct. 705 00:38:31,809 --> 00:38:33,227 MARC: And when you asked him, 706 00:38:33,310 --> 00:38:35,146 "Do you think we can spend time this week?" 707 00:38:35,229 --> 00:38:37,523 You wanted to see Keith, correct? 708 00:38:37,606 --> 00:38:40,234 SYLVIE: It looks like that's what I'm saying, yeah. 709 00:38:40,317 --> 00:38:42,695 MARC: And you agree with me, you're asking this to Keith 710 00:38:42,778 --> 00:38:44,280 on a pretty regular basis? 711 00:38:44,363 --> 00:38:48,326 SYLVIE: I was just following the instructions of my master. 712 00:38:48,409 --> 00:38:50,911 MARC: All right, so on August 9th, you say... 713 00:38:51,662 --> 00:38:56,208 (READS PROMPT) 714 00:38:56,292 --> 00:39:00,004 -That's what you write, correct? -SYLVIE: Yes, that's correct. 715 00:39:00,087 --> 00:39:02,256 MARC: And under it, there's a naked picture of you, 716 00:39:02,339 --> 00:39:03,466 and you write... 717 00:39:03,549 --> 00:39:08,929 (READS PROMPT) 718 00:39:09,847 --> 00:39:10,973 SYLVIE: I would say whatever 719 00:39:11,057 --> 00:39:12,975 I thought was most pleasing to him. 720 00:39:13,059 --> 00:39:15,144 MARC: So, when you said that you dreamt about him, 721 00:39:15,227 --> 00:39:16,854 you were making that up? 722 00:39:16,937 --> 00:39:19,065 SYLVIE: I may have dreamt about him. 723 00:39:19,148 --> 00:39:21,859 If I say I did, I'm sure I did. 724 00:39:23,069 --> 00:39:25,738 MARC: Have you told my client that you love him? 725 00:39:25,821 --> 00:39:28,324 SYLVIE: I tried to be the best slave I could be 726 00:39:28,407 --> 00:39:30,826 so that things would work out for me. 727 00:39:30,910 --> 00:39:33,287 I'm not saying that was the right way to do things. 728 00:39:33,954 --> 00:39:35,122 But that's what I did. 729 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:37,333 MARC: I have nothing else, Judge. 730 00:39:38,834 --> 00:39:40,920 ♪ (MUSIC FADING) ♪ 731 00:39:41,003 --> 00:39:44,632 (DRILL RATTLING IN BACKGROUND) 732 00:39:44,715 --> 00:39:46,717 NIPPY: I think Sylvie did one of the bravest things 733 00:39:46,801 --> 00:39:47,843 I've ever seen anyone do 734 00:39:47,927 --> 00:39:50,304 and it sucks that she had to do that. 735 00:39:52,223 --> 00:39:54,016 You know, it's fucked up. 736 00:39:54,100 --> 00:39:57,812 But I feel like what Keith's abuses were, 737 00:39:57,895 --> 00:40:01,023 weren't exposed today. 738 00:40:02,441 --> 00:40:05,402 I can see how a jury member sitting in there going, 739 00:40:05,486 --> 00:40:07,780 "Well, yeah, you know, that was her decision. 740 00:40:07,863 --> 00:40:10,407 You know, she chose to stay and she communicated, 741 00:40:10,491 --> 00:40:14,328 and she encouraged him." And that's just not the case. 742 00:40:14,411 --> 00:40:17,790 Regardless of what their texts back to him are, or whatever, 743 00:40:17,873 --> 00:40:19,542 they need to understand that the system 744 00:40:19,625 --> 00:40:22,169 and the indoctrination these women have gone through, 745 00:40:22,253 --> 00:40:23,963 which set Sylvie up 746 00:40:24,046 --> 00:40:25,840 for a vulnerable moment like that. 747 00:40:27,133 --> 00:40:30,010 Some of our viewers may be wondering why any woman 748 00:40:30,094 --> 00:40:33,514 would subject themselves to this and why they would not just 749 00:40:33,597 --> 00:40:35,141 walk away from this situation 750 00:40:35,224 --> 00:40:38,018 or simply say no to these requests. 751 00:40:38,102 --> 00:40:40,187 Former NXIVM member, Barbara Bouchey, 752 00:40:40,271 --> 00:40:42,940 giving some insight into this, just after court. 753 00:40:43,023 --> 00:40:45,484 Let's put these messages in context, 754 00:40:45,568 --> 00:40:48,445 and let's establish how she felt manipulated. 755 00:40:48,529 --> 00:40:50,823 And specifically, how he does that. 756 00:40:50,906 --> 00:40:53,409 I don't feel that they established that. 757 00:40:53,492 --> 00:40:56,162 Yes, Sylvie did say, "I felt I needed to 758 00:40:56,245 --> 00:40:57,997 and I was ordered to." But it's just gotta leave 759 00:40:58,080 --> 00:40:59,707 the jurors wondering like, "Wait a minute, 760 00:40:59,790 --> 00:41:02,668 something here is not sizing up." You know? 761 00:41:02,751 --> 00:41:03,878 So Keith's attorney 762 00:41:03,961 --> 00:41:06,547 has won the one on Sylvie, unfortunately. 763 00:41:09,675 --> 00:41:13,095 (DISTANT TRAFFIC RUMBLING) 764 00:41:14,138 --> 00:41:15,472 -SARAH EDMONDSON: Hi. -Hey. 765 00:41:15,556 --> 00:41:18,684 So, Eduardo and all those people saw Sylvie talking about this... 766 00:41:18,767 --> 00:41:21,729 Yes, and they walk out, yeah. 767 00:41:21,812 --> 00:41:24,190 So, like, they don't wanna take in the information. 768 00:41:24,273 --> 00:41:26,525 -Like if that's what-- -Well, if they're there, 769 00:41:26,609 --> 00:41:28,611 and Sylvie is saying this, this is not-- 770 00:41:28,694 --> 00:41:30,154 this is not me or Mark Vicente... 771 00:41:30,237 --> 00:41:31,238 -Yeah. -...with Sylvie. 772 00:41:31,322 --> 00:41:32,573 -Yeah. -It's gotta get in. 773 00:41:32,656 --> 00:41:34,158 It's gonna get in somehow. 774 00:41:34,241 --> 00:41:35,326 -I'm telling you. -Sarah. 775 00:41:35,409 --> 00:41:36,577 Sarah, we're still the enemy. 776 00:41:37,578 --> 00:41:38,746 They're in the same diner we are. 777 00:41:38,829 --> 00:41:39,914 They're in the other room right now. 778 00:41:39,997 --> 00:41:42,249 Fuck me, I'm gonna call Eduardo right now. 779 00:41:42,333 --> 00:41:43,542 -I'm gonna call him. -No, no. 780 00:41:43,626 --> 00:41:45,252 -Yeah, I'm calling him. -Shit, pump the brakes. 781 00:41:49,340 --> 00:41:54,595 At this point, if you don't see that the thing that Keith sold 782 00:41:54,678 --> 00:41:58,766 and pretended he was upholding is a fucking con, 783 00:41:58,849 --> 00:42:02,186 you are supporting something that is undermining 784 00:42:02,269 --> 00:42:04,355 the principles that you pretend to uphold. 785 00:42:07,149 --> 00:42:11,070 So, either they're willing to embrace more information, 786 00:42:11,153 --> 00:42:15,407 "get all the data," as they say, or maintain their narrative 787 00:42:15,491 --> 00:42:17,660 and good luck, see where that gets you. 788 00:42:19,828 --> 00:42:22,581 ♪ (INTENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 789 00:42:40,266 --> 00:42:43,310 Just gonna make sure the judge doesn't think I'm a slob. 790 00:42:45,104 --> 00:42:46,105 Okay? 791 00:42:53,362 --> 00:42:54,446 Terrified. 792 00:42:56,365 --> 00:42:58,993 Fucking terrified. And I hate suits. 793 00:42:59,868 --> 00:43:00,953 With a passion. 794 00:43:01,036 --> 00:43:04,540 I vowed I never wanted to wear them again after ESP, 795 00:43:04,623 --> 00:43:09,086 and here I am about to, in some ways, do an ESP intro, 796 00:43:10,337 --> 00:43:12,506 explaining how it all works and what it is and... 797 00:43:13,799 --> 00:43:15,676 why I liked it. 798 00:43:15,759 --> 00:43:18,220 They all told me, like, once you get inside of it, 799 00:43:18,304 --> 00:43:21,223 it's fine. It's just the beginning. 800 00:43:21,307 --> 00:43:23,434 You know, it's a new environment and... 801 00:43:23,517 --> 00:43:24,977 it's kind of nerve-wracking. 802 00:43:26,145 --> 00:43:30,441 It's just the beginning that I'm the most worried about. 803 00:43:36,655 --> 00:43:37,865 -Bye. -BONNIE: Bye. 804 00:43:40,409 --> 00:43:44,246 As far as I understand, if one jury member 805 00:43:44,330 --> 00:43:47,833 doesn't think he's guilty then he's pronounced not guilty, 806 00:43:47,916 --> 00:43:51,128 I think. Like it needs to be across the board. 807 00:43:53,005 --> 00:43:57,009 So, if he manages to brainwash one jury member then... 808 00:43:58,260 --> 00:43:59,595 I think he goes free. 809 00:44:00,846 --> 00:44:03,474 And then he'd come after us, 100 percent. 810 00:44:03,557 --> 00:44:05,809 Like, he's a vengeful bastard, he doesn't-- 811 00:44:05,893 --> 00:44:07,561 he doesn't, like, get on with his life 812 00:44:07,644 --> 00:44:09,229 and be like, "Oh, maybe I've had enough." 813 00:44:10,439 --> 00:44:13,359 His whole life's purpose seems to be coming after people. 814 00:44:13,442 --> 00:44:16,862 Especially people who were loyal to him who are now not. 815 00:44:16,945 --> 00:44:19,198 ♪ (MELANCHOLIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 816 00:44:26,955 --> 00:44:28,123 (LIGHTER CLICKS) 817 00:44:29,541 --> 00:44:31,001 BONNIE: I don't wanna be in the courtroom 818 00:44:31,085 --> 00:44:33,379 because it wouldn't be good for Mark if I was in there 819 00:44:33,462 --> 00:44:34,713 when he's testifying, 820 00:44:34,797 --> 00:44:37,883 'cause I'm worried about me having panic attacks and stuff. 821 00:44:37,966 --> 00:44:41,053 But I wish I could be a fly on the wall. 822 00:44:48,852 --> 00:44:50,104 (GAVEL THUDDING) 823 00:44:51,855 --> 00:44:53,732 Good afternoon, Mr. Vicente. 824 00:44:53,816 --> 00:44:54,900 Good afternoon. 825 00:44:54,983 --> 00:44:57,611 How long were you involved with the organization? 826 00:44:59,196 --> 00:45:02,116 I was with the organization for about 12 years. 827 00:45:02,199 --> 00:45:04,159 MARK LESKO: During your 12 years at NXIVM, 828 00:45:04,243 --> 00:45:06,036 did you come to know Mr. Raniere? 829 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:07,162 MARK: I did. 830 00:45:08,414 --> 00:45:10,916 And what was the defendant's role at NXIVM? 831 00:45:10,999 --> 00:45:13,419 MARK: He was considered the philosophical founder. 832 00:45:14,753 --> 00:45:17,631 The driving, ethical, moral and humanitarian force 833 00:45:17,714 --> 00:45:20,134 behind the entire company. 834 00:45:20,217 --> 00:45:23,137 I'd like to have you look around the courtroom. 835 00:45:23,220 --> 00:45:26,014 And let us know if you see Mr. Raniere here today. 836 00:45:29,101 --> 00:45:32,146 I remember shaking, and I remember saying to myself, 837 00:45:32,229 --> 00:45:33,397 "I'm not going to look at him." 838 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:35,691 Like, "I'm not looking at the defense table." 839 00:45:35,774 --> 00:45:37,568 But I had to say the defendant's name, 840 00:45:37,651 --> 00:45:39,111 like, "Keith Raniere." 841 00:45:39,194 --> 00:45:42,114 And then they say, "Can you point to him?" 842 00:45:42,197 --> 00:45:44,950 I pointed at him and I held-- I just held it. 843 00:45:45,033 --> 00:45:47,953 ♪ (EMOTIONAL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 844 00:45:48,036 --> 00:45:50,456 MARK: And the thing that was just fucked up 845 00:45:50,539 --> 00:45:53,459 was that the way he looked at me when I pointed at him 846 00:45:53,542 --> 00:45:56,003 was sort of this, like, "I'm here for you. 847 00:45:56,086 --> 00:45:59,089 I'm still on your side. I still love you." 848 00:46:02,634 --> 00:46:04,845 And I made the decision, like, "Fuck you. 849 00:46:06,597 --> 00:46:07,764 You're not getting in my head." 850 00:46:10,434 --> 00:46:14,146 But later on, I had this, like, sudden thought, 851 00:46:14,229 --> 00:46:16,273 it was bizarre, it like just floated through 852 00:46:16,356 --> 00:46:17,983 and it was like... It was sort of like, 853 00:46:18,066 --> 00:46:19,193 "What if he's right? 854 00:46:20,235 --> 00:46:22,237 What if he actually is a good guy?" 855 00:46:22,321 --> 00:46:25,115 Okay. You wear the headphones and I'll-- 856 00:46:25,199 --> 00:46:26,492 Let me hear how it sounds. 857 00:46:27,075 --> 00:46:29,161 (BOTH LAUGH) 858 00:46:29,786 --> 00:46:30,871 Wait, how'd you do that? 859 00:46:30,954 --> 00:46:31,997 MARK: And I was like, 860 00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,666 "What the fuck is that thought doing there?" 861 00:46:34,750 --> 00:46:35,876 I was so horrified. 862 00:46:37,211 --> 00:46:40,047 Not so much that the thought had taken root, 863 00:46:40,130 --> 00:46:41,673 but that I had the thought. 864 00:46:43,926 --> 00:46:45,928 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 865 00:46:46,011 --> 00:46:49,848 LESKO: Okay, Mr. Vicente. Let's turn back to 2005. 866 00:46:49,932 --> 00:46:51,892 -♪ (SOFT PIANO MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ -LESKO: In that year, 867 00:46:51,975 --> 00:46:54,811 did you participate in an ESP program? 868 00:46:54,895 --> 00:46:58,899 MARK: I did. It was a 16-day training. 869 00:46:58,982 --> 00:47:01,860 And pretty early on, a number of the philosophical ideas 870 00:47:01,944 --> 00:47:03,403 began being introduced. 871 00:47:04,738 --> 00:47:06,323 In one particular module, 872 00:47:06,406 --> 00:47:07,991 they talked about speaking with honor. 873 00:47:09,159 --> 00:47:11,995 And that if you were unable to speak with honor, 874 00:47:12,079 --> 00:47:14,248 it suggested you had a problem with pride 875 00:47:14,331 --> 00:47:17,918 and that you were what was termed "suppressive." 876 00:47:18,001 --> 00:47:19,711 And what was interesting to me is that 877 00:47:20,462 --> 00:47:22,005 it seemed quite okay 878 00:47:22,089 --> 00:47:24,258 to speak dishonorably about other people, 879 00:47:25,175 --> 00:47:28,095 but not Vanguard, not Raniere. 880 00:47:28,178 --> 00:47:31,306 One could never speak dishonorably about him 881 00:47:31,390 --> 00:47:34,434 because then you would be considered to be prideful. 882 00:47:34,518 --> 00:47:37,145 So, there was a trap that seemed to be built in. 883 00:47:38,647 --> 00:47:41,233 They even brought up the word "cult" and said, "Look, 884 00:47:41,316 --> 00:47:45,028 the word doesn't exist, there's no definition for it. 885 00:47:45,112 --> 00:47:48,907 And anybody who uses the word is clearly suppressive as well." 886 00:47:50,325 --> 00:47:51,910 So, in essence, I began to realize 887 00:47:51,994 --> 00:47:54,162 that if you said anything against the curriculum, 888 00:47:54,246 --> 00:47:57,749 against the educational model, or against the founder, 889 00:47:57,833 --> 00:47:59,585 you were considered suppressive. 890 00:48:01,878 --> 00:48:04,673 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 891 00:48:04,756 --> 00:48:07,467 MOIRA: People who would be labelled as suppressives 892 00:48:07,551 --> 00:48:10,137 would be people who actually challenged 893 00:48:10,220 --> 00:48:13,473 the abuses within the NXIVM system. 894 00:48:13,557 --> 00:48:17,603 The idea would be that you are 895 00:48:17,686 --> 00:48:20,063 somebody who doesn't want good in the world. 896 00:48:20,147 --> 00:48:25,152 You are actively fighting against this really great thing 897 00:48:25,235 --> 00:48:28,572 because you are somebody who destroys. 898 00:48:35,537 --> 00:48:38,665 BONNIE: "It was a horrible, twisted idea," he said. 899 00:48:38,749 --> 00:48:41,251 Vicente told the jury that looking back he feels 900 00:48:41,335 --> 00:48:43,337 Raniere's teachings about overcoming fears 901 00:48:43,420 --> 00:48:46,089 to achieve self-fulfillment was a fraud and a lie. 902 00:48:47,674 --> 00:48:49,551 (GROUSES) Says he broke down crying. 903 00:48:51,094 --> 00:48:54,514 And he needed to compose himself on the witness stand. 904 00:48:54,598 --> 00:48:57,309 ♪ (EMOTIONAL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 905 00:49:43,897 --> 00:49:45,357 (CLICKS TONGUE) I'm done. 906 00:49:46,316 --> 00:49:47,984 ♪ (MUSIC FADING) ♪ 907 00:49:48,068 --> 00:49:50,904 -BONNIE: (SOFTLY) Yeah. -(BREATHES DEEPLY) 908 00:49:52,698 --> 00:49:53,782 It's okay, baby. 909 00:49:59,996 --> 00:50:03,000 I feel like the greatest thing that could've happened 910 00:50:03,083 --> 00:50:05,752 is I got to face off this monster 911 00:50:05,836 --> 00:50:08,422 and then see that I have any more like... 912 00:50:08,505 --> 00:50:10,590 Was there anything holding me back 913 00:50:10,674 --> 00:50:12,342 from seeing the truth? And I found, in the end, 914 00:50:12,426 --> 00:50:14,010 there was nothing. Nothing holding me back. 915 00:50:14,094 --> 00:50:15,721 I could-- I could face him. 916 00:50:18,265 --> 00:50:19,975 But I'm free from him. 917 00:50:20,058 --> 00:50:22,394 You know? He's not in my soul anymore, 918 00:50:22,477 --> 00:50:23,770 he's not in my head anymore. 919 00:50:29,985 --> 00:50:33,029 ♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 920 00:50:41,288 --> 00:50:43,373 NANCY: You know, I really loved Mark. 921 00:50:44,666 --> 00:50:48,086 And I felt like we were really friends. 922 00:50:48,170 --> 00:50:49,546 MARK: This could not have been built, 923 00:50:49,629 --> 00:50:53,550 had prefect Nancy Salzman not existed. 924 00:50:53,633 --> 00:50:57,345 And some of you have heard that I was pompous beyond belief. 925 00:50:57,429 --> 00:50:59,055 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 926 00:50:59,139 --> 00:51:00,974 MARK: She broke my pride, 927 00:51:01,057 --> 00:51:03,810 she broke my arrogance but she did it with love. 928 00:51:03,894 --> 00:51:06,104 We are standing on the shoulders of giants. 929 00:51:06,188 --> 00:51:08,899 And to me, you are a giantess. 930 00:51:09,858 --> 00:51:13,195 (AUDIENCE APPLAUDS) 931 00:51:16,490 --> 00:51:18,200 ♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 932 00:51:18,283 --> 00:51:19,284 NANCY: When he left, 933 00:51:19,367 --> 00:51:22,120 it was very painful for me what he did. 934 00:51:22,954 --> 00:51:25,081 I'm just gonna say thank you, Mark. 935 00:51:25,165 --> 00:51:27,751 (AUDIENCE CONTINUES APPLAUDING) 936 00:51:27,834 --> 00:51:29,461 NANCY: They were so destructive. 937 00:51:31,421 --> 00:51:36,927 Sarah went home and disenrolled everybody she enrolled 938 00:51:37,010 --> 00:51:39,971 and gave them refunds out of our money. 939 00:51:41,014 --> 00:51:42,766 She didn't have a right to do that. 940 00:51:43,934 --> 00:51:45,977 And the call that she finally did make to me 941 00:51:46,061 --> 00:51:47,979 was so horrendous. 942 00:51:48,980 --> 00:51:50,982 -♪ (MUSIC FADING) ♪ -(CELLPHONE BEEPS) 943 00:52:29,896 --> 00:52:33,608 So, that was how I-- (CHUCKLES) That was my call from Sarah. 944 00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:39,489 Would you respond to a message like that? 945 00:52:42,909 --> 00:52:46,371 I think I probably feel angrier at Sarah than I do at Keith, 946 00:52:46,454 --> 00:52:49,749 which is not rational, I guess but... 947 00:52:51,751 --> 00:52:53,837 I mean, I think Keith is just the way he is. 948 00:52:56,339 --> 00:52:58,800 We're not really here, this is a video of a meeting 949 00:52:58,884 --> 00:53:00,594 that happened long ago. 950 00:53:00,677 --> 00:53:03,805 Do you-- Sir, we're connected up. 951 00:53:06,141 --> 00:53:08,602 NANCY: I think everybody just assumes. 952 00:53:08,685 --> 00:53:09,978 You know, I knew everything 953 00:53:10,061 --> 00:53:11,771 and I should've known everything. 954 00:53:14,232 --> 00:53:18,486 But when everything started to blow up... 955 00:53:21,323 --> 00:53:23,116 I didn't know why really. 956 00:53:23,867 --> 00:53:26,703 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 957 00:53:26,786 --> 00:53:30,040 NANCY: In 2017, during my birthday party... 958 00:53:31,750 --> 00:53:34,961 a very dear friend of mine came to me 959 00:53:35,045 --> 00:53:37,464 thinking I knew about DOS. 960 00:53:37,547 --> 00:53:40,467 I had no idea what she was talking about. 961 00:53:40,550 --> 00:53:44,512 Meanwhile, Nippy is having some kind of tantrum. 962 00:54:05,867 --> 00:54:08,328 I called Keith and I said, "What's going on?" 963 00:54:08,411 --> 00:54:10,246 And he said, "Nothing." And I said, "Keith, 964 00:54:10,330 --> 00:54:11,915 something is going on." 965 00:54:11,998 --> 00:54:14,793 And I said that I'm really upset. 966 00:54:14,876 --> 00:54:17,754 It's very clear that everyone in that room knows something 967 00:54:17,837 --> 00:54:18,922 that I don't know. 968 00:54:19,005 --> 00:54:23,343 And finally, Lauren is sent to take me for a walk. 969 00:54:25,053 --> 00:54:28,348 And she says to me, "Mom, I don't want you to be upset. 970 00:54:28,431 --> 00:54:29,683 It's nothing bad." 971 00:54:29,766 --> 00:54:33,311 And I said, "Well, why isn't anyone telling me?" 972 00:54:33,395 --> 00:54:34,896 And she said, "Well, Mom, 973 00:54:34,980 --> 00:54:37,649 there's this secret organization. 974 00:54:37,732 --> 00:54:39,818 It's like a sorority." 975 00:54:39,901 --> 00:54:41,695 And I said, "And Keith is running this thing?" 976 00:54:41,778 --> 00:54:45,407 And she said, "No. It's the women." 977 00:54:47,283 --> 00:54:51,496 And I went to Keith, and I said, "You're doing this, aren't you? 978 00:54:51,579 --> 00:54:52,747 You're running this, aren't you?" 979 00:54:52,831 --> 00:54:54,290 And he said, "No, no, no, no, no." 980 00:54:55,083 --> 00:54:56,835 He said it was the women's idea. 981 00:54:58,461 --> 00:55:01,840 I was so angry at these women. 982 00:55:01,923 --> 00:55:06,136 It seemed like they were just very thoughtless 983 00:55:06,219 --> 00:55:08,805 about how what they were doing was going to affect 984 00:55:08,888 --> 00:55:11,349 everything I had worked for for 20 years. 985 00:55:13,518 --> 00:55:15,603 And then, he stood up in front of the whole organization, 986 00:55:15,687 --> 00:55:18,523 and told the whole organization what he had told me 987 00:55:18,606 --> 00:55:21,067 and I still believed him. 988 00:55:21,151 --> 00:55:25,447 The connection with the sorority between myself, between NXIVM, 989 00:55:25,530 --> 00:55:29,075 between Jness has been... (SIGHS) 990 00:55:29,159 --> 00:55:31,411 ...ridiculously, not only exaggerated, 991 00:55:31,494 --> 00:55:33,413 but even fabricated. 992 00:55:33,496 --> 00:55:35,707 The sorority is not a NXIVM thing. 993 00:55:35,790 --> 00:55:36,958 It is totally separate. 994 00:55:37,042 --> 00:55:39,294 In fact, there are people in this sorority 995 00:55:39,377 --> 00:55:41,963 that aren't in any of our companies at all. 996 00:55:42,672 --> 00:55:45,592 The sorority is not a company. 997 00:55:47,010 --> 00:55:51,431 Most of the things about it are not really true. 998 00:55:55,435 --> 00:55:59,814 And then my whole company was destroyed... 999 00:56:00,982 --> 00:56:02,776 and my whole life fell apart. 1000 00:56:05,612 --> 00:56:07,489 There were bad things that happened... 1001 00:56:09,199 --> 00:56:11,618 but it doesn't mean that everybody 1002 00:56:11,701 --> 00:56:13,411 who's getting blamed for the bad things 1003 00:56:13,495 --> 00:56:14,954 actually did the bad things. 1004 00:56:16,372 --> 00:56:19,167 The sex cult was DOS, it was over here. 1005 00:56:19,250 --> 00:56:20,585 It was Keith's thing. 1006 00:56:20,668 --> 00:56:22,962 My company didn't need to be destroyed. 1007 00:56:23,046 --> 00:56:24,798 ♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1008 00:56:24,881 --> 00:56:25,924 But it was. 1009 00:56:27,133 --> 00:56:29,385 That's not right. 1010 00:56:29,469 --> 00:56:33,139 I spent 20 years trying to make the world a better place 1011 00:56:33,223 --> 00:56:35,058 and this is where I ended up. 1012 00:56:35,141 --> 00:56:37,769 Actually, I spent 40 years 1013 00:56:37,852 --> 00:56:39,312 trying to make the world a better place 1014 00:56:39,395 --> 00:56:41,773 because I started before I knew Keith Raniere. 1015 00:56:43,316 --> 00:56:45,902 And the other thing I don't understand is... 1016 00:56:47,070 --> 00:56:49,614 17,000 people got good results. 1017 00:56:51,282 --> 00:56:52,534 Where are they? 1018 00:56:54,077 --> 00:56:56,871 Why aren't they standing up for us? 1019 00:56:56,955 --> 00:57:00,208 ♪ (MUSIC INTENSIFIES, CONCLUDES) ♪ 1020 00:57:00,291 --> 00:57:02,794 ♪ ("MY HANDS" BY TATUM PLAYING) ♪ 1021 00:57:04,420 --> 00:57:07,674 ♪ I stitched together All my happy moments ♪ 1022 00:57:07,757 --> 00:57:11,094 ♪ In this lace So I never had to look ♪ 1023 00:57:11,928 --> 00:57:13,513 ♪ At the in betweens ♪ 1024 00:57:13,596 --> 00:57:16,182 ♪ I used my smile as a mask ♪ 1025 00:57:16,266 --> 00:57:18,685 ♪ So no one would ever ask ♪ 1026 00:57:18,768 --> 00:57:20,812 ♪ What happened? ♪ 1027 00:57:20,895 --> 00:57:25,150 ♪ How did I break? ♪ 1028 00:57:25,233 --> 00:57:29,696 (VOCALIZING) 1029 00:57:33,158 --> 00:57:39,789 ♪ I buried you ♪ 1030 00:57:42,250 --> 00:57:49,174 ♪ My hands were shaking The day I became brave ♪ 1031 00:57:49,257 --> 00:57:56,556 ♪ I roped back the layers I faced all, all of my horrors ♪ 1032 00:57:56,639 --> 00:57:58,933 ♪ I found I am stronger ♪ 1033 00:57:59,017 --> 00:58:03,563 ♪ Stronger than the monsters ♪ 1034 00:58:03,646 --> 00:58:08,318 ♪ Stronger than the monsters ♪ 1035 00:58:10,528 --> 00:58:14,365 ♪ My hands were shaking ♪ 1036 00:58:14,449 --> 00:58:19,078 ♪ The day I became brave ♪ 1037 00:58:19,162 --> 00:58:20,705 ♪ (SONG CONCLUDING) ♪