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Keith Raniere has done something
that has never been
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documented before
in the history of psychology
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or any of the information
on human potential.
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He has quantified
the structure of emotions,
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the nature of emotions,
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and how human beings
either limit
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or empower themselves,
with their emotions.
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In ESP,
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we taught something
called "state control."
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A series of events happen,
we make a meaning,
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and based on that meaning,
we have an emotional reaction,
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which means we're choosing
the emotional reaction
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based on the meaning.
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Right? We may not be aware
we're choosing it,
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but we are actually choosing it.
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And we do exercises with people
so that they begin to gain
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a feeling of control
over those choices.
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So, if something happens,
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and I have an impulse
to be angry,
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I can act on that impulse
and yell at you
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and scream at you,
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or I can have the impulse
and choose not to indulge it.
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So I can choose
to bring up a state.
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I can be sitting here like this
right now and I can say,
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"I am so mad, I can't stand it!
This is not acceptable to me!"
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Or not.
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♪ (EERIE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
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♪ ("DREAM STATE"
FT. BONNIE PIESSE
BY SON LUX PLAYING) ♪
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♪ Days we were young ♪
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♪ We took photographs
Of everything we could see ♪
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♪ We had to run from it ♪
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♪ Priest and prophetess
We were nothing we would defy ♪
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♪ Oh ♪
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♪ Invisible skin
Where is the world within? ♪
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♪ Invincible skin
It's how we all begin ♪
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♪ ("DREAM STATE"
CONCLUDES) ♪
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♪ (MELANCHOLIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
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The trial against
alleged cult leader,
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Keith Raniere,
entering its second week today.
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Raniere is facing
a number of charges,
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including sex trafficking
and racketeering.
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Uh, you know,
it's hard to process this.
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I think it takes a long time,
and I haven't had therapy.
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I have thought
that it would give me a way
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of just talking it all through.
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These are all Keith.
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He didn't want us to throw away
anything he ever wrote.
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When we were creating
the intensive...
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he would draw these
on the floor of my house.
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"A causes B in the past,
event B, event A.
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Uh, the future.
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So we have nothing
to do with past events."
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I don't know
what he was trying to say,
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but we laminated it.
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Twenty years is right here.
Twenty years of curriculum.
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If you represent this as you...
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would you say
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that there is what we'll call
"optimal you"?
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Or optimal...
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The idea was that
he had this very special skill
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to create behavior change.
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It wasn't a science,
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but he wanted
to make it a science.
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So it had to be reproducible,
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verifiable, consistent,
and measurable.
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By the way, I am doing this
completely extemporaneously.
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I'm imagining...
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But it wasn't like
he had the technology done.
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He had an idea.
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And then he had
a bunch of concepts.
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And he started teaching me
parts of it.
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This is Keith and Nancy,
and it's 6:02 am.
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So, tell me,
what is responsibility?
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Okay, uh,
responsibility is--
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This is pretty simple
and easy.
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Yeah, it's--
it's the causes and the effects.
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Uh, your-- your participation
in the causes and the effects.
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Yeah. So that's some--
something you can affect.
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Mm-hmm.
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He thought we were
only going to need 20 modules.
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I wrote 2000 modules
by the time ESP was done.
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They were Keith's concepts,
and I codified them.
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When I was first starting out
in my professional career,
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I began to really think
about this thing,
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the mind-body connection.
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The more I learned, the more
I realized that I didn't know.
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I was always fascinated
by how much we could do
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using our mind over our body.
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Did you ever hear a story
about a 110-pound woman
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who picked up a 4000-pound car
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because she thought her baby
was underneath it?
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Human beings
have incredible resources
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and we can produce
unprecedented results
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under the right set
of circumstances.
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I always wanted to know
what the limits
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of our model was.
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I wanted to work
with chronic pain.
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I wanted to work
with eating dis--
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I wanted to work
with a number of things.
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Keith, he said before we work
with people with disorders,
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I want us to work
with healthy people
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who just want to change
patterns of behavior
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that limit them.
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But people would come
who would have certain disorders
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and they would say,
"Will this help this?"
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And then
Marc Elliot showed up.
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I started ticcing
when I was five years old.
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{\an8}Started with eye blinking.
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{\an8}In high school,
my Tourette's got way worse.
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The way that I would describe it
is that there's an itch
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and there's a scratch.
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So Tourette syndrome,
in my opinion,
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is that very uncomfortable itch.
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I won't tic.
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And then the tic
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is actually someone
scratching that itch.
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It's not like I'm possessed
by the devil,
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and-- and...
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...something's moving my mouth.
I was moving it.
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It's just very hard
not to scratch it.
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{\an8}I tried all sorts
of different treatments.
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I tried neuroleptic drugs,
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like very serious
anti-psychotic drugs
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which the side effects of,
I mean, you're so lethargic,
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you're so sleepy,
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it's almost like
you're a zombie.
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And it finally got to the point
that I decided,
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forget medication,
I'm just gonna live my life.
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I wasn't waiting
for the cure.
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In fact,
it was the direct opposite.
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Because I can't stop this.
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The best path for me
to have a better life,
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is to then get the whole world
to accept me.
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I have Tourette's by the way,
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just gonna throw that
out there, okay?
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People look at me and make
a lot of assumptions
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about who I am as a person.
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I was 24 years old,
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speaking about
compassion and tolerance.
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It was a dream come true externally.
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But internally, the thing
that I didn't have was peace.
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And then I learned about ESP.
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And this is
what's most important.
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I did not go for Tourette's.
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It wasn't even an iota
of a thought in my mind
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about somehow this training
could affect my Tourette's.
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- Hey, everybody.
- Stay standing.
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- Hello.
- How are you all?
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Nancy comes in
and she picks me to be the demo
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of the fear sourcing.
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A fear sourcing is going back
to the root of your fear.
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You had an experience
at some time,
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and you didn't know
how to make sense of it,
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and you became fearful.
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You have to think about
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what fear do you want
to work on.
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And I don't know why,
but I decided
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that maybe
I'm afraid of losing Tourette's.
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Six days earlier,
if you would have come up to me
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and said like, "Hey, you know,
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you might be afraid
of losing Tourette's,"
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I literally would've punched you
or said, "Fuck you."
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But we explored the fear,
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and it wasn't that I was afraid
of losing Tourette's,
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I was just afraid
of not being special anymore.
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I just had
such a fundamental shift of--
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I'm not seeing myself
as a victim to this thing.
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What if you could figure out
what's causing the itch?
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Which is a completely
different paradigm.
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The more that you can really get
to the root of that,
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what I found was,
my itch started to go down.
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I remember being
in a train station...
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and I walk into the middle
and I just stood there.
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I literally was like
everyone else.
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And I had never had that
in my entire life.
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Now is the moment
where we introduce
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an amazing man.
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He has inspired thousands
of people. Marc Elliot!
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00:10:30,259 --> 00:10:33,429
Whoo!
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Thank you!
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Living with Tourette syndrome,
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I really had the chance
to see what is it like
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to be so different
than everyone else.
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But in 2010,
I met an American scientist
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00:10:48,069 --> 00:10:50,780
and philosopher,
his name is Keith Raniere,
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00:10:50,780 --> 00:10:52,656
and he actually
created the courses
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that provided the tools
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00:10:54,075 --> 00:10:56,160
that helped me
beat my Tourette's.
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Nothing like this
has ever been done
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00:11:00,706 --> 00:11:02,458
in history that I know of.
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00:11:03,709 --> 00:11:05,836
And now I've been like this,
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00:11:05,836 --> 00:11:09,215
um, for about
the last four years.
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You know, that's why
I'm-- I'm so grateful
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00:11:14,136 --> 00:11:16,097
to Keith and to Nancy
and to NXIVM.
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00:11:16,097 --> 00:11:18,349
It's not because I'm--
I'm some--
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I had this indoctrination.
I've had a horrible 20 years.
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00:11:24,146 --> 00:11:25,231
You know, what do you--
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00:11:25,231 --> 00:11:26,982
How do you feel
towards the person
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00:11:26,982 --> 00:11:30,361
that literally gave you
an opportunity and the tools
200
00:11:30,361 --> 00:11:34,323
to craft an existence
that you couldn't even dream of?
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00:11:35,324 --> 00:11:38,452
♪ (SOFT MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
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00:11:51,507 --> 00:11:53,676
When I did
the Tourette's work,
203
00:11:53,676 --> 00:11:57,221
I think I may have learned
more than anything else I did.
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00:11:59,056 --> 00:12:00,975
So, this is Marc,
and Marc's volunteered
205
00:12:00,975 --> 00:12:03,519
to demonstrate anger
for us today.
206
00:12:03,519 --> 00:12:05,896
So this is what
I'm going to ask you to do.
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00:12:05,896 --> 00:12:09,150
When Marc
first came to ESP,
208
00:12:09,150 --> 00:12:10,985
I studied him the whole week.
209
00:12:14,613 --> 00:12:16,907
He would think in his mind,
210
00:12:16,907 --> 00:12:18,784
"What is the worst
possible thing
211
00:12:18,784 --> 00:12:20,286
that I could say?"
212
00:12:20,286 --> 00:12:22,037
So, like, when he first met me,
213
00:12:22,037 --> 00:12:27,042
he said, "Bitch! Bitch!
Bitch! Bitch! Bitch!"
214
00:12:27,042 --> 00:12:31,172
And when we first met
Clare Bronfman, he said,
215
00:12:31,172 --> 00:12:36,010
"Rich! Rich! Rich! Rich! Rich!"
216
00:12:36,010 --> 00:12:42,224
Clare paid for the research,
but it was Marc's idea
217
00:12:42,224 --> 00:12:44,518
to work with other
Tourette's people.
218
00:12:44,518 --> 00:12:46,812
- Hello.
- Hi.
219
00:12:46,812 --> 00:12:48,689
Hi, I'm Nancy. I'm Nancy.
220
00:12:48,689 --> 00:12:50,274
- Hey.
- It's nice to meet you.
221
00:12:50,274 --> 00:12:52,651
When I started working
with people who had Tourette's,
222
00:12:52,651 --> 00:12:55,821
I never researched
much about Tourette's.
223
00:12:55,821 --> 00:12:58,908
And the reason was I didn't want
to prejudice myself.
224
00:13:00,201 --> 00:13:02,453
I had one 20-minute conversation
with Keith
225
00:13:02,453 --> 00:13:04,872
about how I was gonna
work with people.
226
00:13:04,872 --> 00:13:07,416
And he said to me,
"You use every tool
227
00:13:07,416 --> 00:13:09,126
you have ever learned.
228
00:13:09,126 --> 00:13:10,503
Don't hold back."
229
00:13:12,213 --> 00:13:15,299
Do you have
any concerns about today?
230
00:13:16,091 --> 00:13:17,092
{\an8}Concerns?
231
00:13:17,092 --> 00:13:19,512
{\an8}Um... Well, I mean,
the other day I was thinking
232
00:13:19,512 --> 00:13:22,097
{\an8}that it, you know,
might not work.
233
00:13:22,097 --> 00:13:24,016
{\an8}- Is that your concern?
- Yeah.
234
00:13:24,016 --> 00:13:25,518
{\an8}- So--
- So you have...
235
00:13:27,478 --> 00:13:29,146
{\an8} So...
236
00:13:30,439 --> 00:13:31,982
{\an8}I wanna see what the outcome is.
237
00:13:31,982 --> 00:13:35,361
{\an8}- Uh, I can try my hardest.
- The whole part of outcomes is
238
00:13:35,361 --> 00:13:36,946
{\an8}you can't figure out
what they are
239
00:13:36,946 --> 00:13:38,864
{\an8}until you go through
the process, right?
240
00:13:38,864 --> 00:13:40,032
{\an8}Right, yeah.
241
00:13:40,032 --> 00:13:41,408
{\an8}Okay, so you were thinking
it might not work...
242
00:13:41,408 --> 00:13:43,827
{\an8}I work with
a number of different things,
243
00:13:43,827 --> 00:13:45,287
{\an8}but mainly beliefs.
244
00:13:46,455 --> 00:13:50,000
So I give them a belief
in the mind-body connection
245
00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:51,794
and what is actually possible.
246
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,673
{\an8}I'm gonna do something, uh...
247
00:13:55,673 --> 00:13:58,133
...like an exploration
with you.
248
00:13:58,133 --> 00:14:00,177
{\an8}It's called an exploration
of meaning.
249
00:14:00,177 --> 00:14:03,556
{\an8}So I'm going to ask you
what you mean by certain things
250
00:14:03,556 --> 00:14:04,765
{\an8}because a lot of times,
251
00:14:04,765 --> 00:14:07,393
{\an8}if there's an inconsistency
in meaning,
252
00:14:07,393 --> 00:14:09,436
{\an8}it causes...
253
00:14:09,436 --> 00:14:12,606
{\an8}...the issues that limit us.
254
00:14:12,606 --> 00:14:14,108
{\an8}So what I'm gonna do
is try to help...
255
00:14:14,108 --> 00:14:18,028
{\an8}In ESP,
the thing that we did very well,
256
00:14:18,028 --> 00:14:21,949
was we could take a stimulus
and a response
257
00:14:21,949 --> 00:14:23,867
and disconnect them.
258
00:14:23,867 --> 00:14:28,289
Like, for instance,
have you ever had an experience
259
00:14:28,289 --> 00:14:33,002
of hearing a tone
in your mother's voice
260
00:14:33,002 --> 00:14:36,171
and knowing
that you were in trouble?
261
00:14:36,171 --> 00:14:40,050
And then whenever you hear
that tone in someone's voice,
262
00:14:40,926 --> 00:14:42,177
you go into a panic.
263
00:14:43,137 --> 00:14:46,140
If you can disconnect
the trigger,
264
00:14:46,140 --> 00:14:47,891
you know, to your issue,
265
00:14:47,891 --> 00:14:49,393
then you would not
do it anymore,
266
00:14:49,393 --> 00:14:51,520
and then you would forget
you ever did it.
267
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,480
So the way
that I handled Tourette's was,
268
00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,151
I found out what--
what the impulse was
269
00:14:57,151 --> 00:15:00,029
and then I would disconnect
the stimulus and responses
270
00:15:00,029 --> 00:15:03,699
until, you know,
there was control.
271
00:15:03,699 --> 00:15:05,618
When you say,
"It feels like I need to blink,"
272
00:15:05,618 --> 00:15:07,202
- what do you mean?
- When...
273
00:15:09,788 --> 00:15:11,290
when my eyes get dry,
and I blink,
274
00:15:11,290 --> 00:15:13,083
it's not like
a different feeling than that.
275
00:15:13,083 --> 00:15:16,128
It's not?
But then sometimes you really...
276
00:15:16,128 --> 00:15:19,798
Yeah.
How do you know when to do that?
277
00:15:24,762 --> 00:15:27,097
Now, you said
you had this feeling here.
278
00:15:27,097 --> 00:15:28,557
How does it feel now?
279
00:15:29,683 --> 00:15:34,021
It's... I can feel it,
but it's not as strong.
280
00:15:35,773 --> 00:15:39,818
There isn't the urge to tic--
There is, but...
281
00:15:41,612 --> 00:15:42,988
I can control it.
282
00:15:44,740 --> 00:15:46,492
Huh! I didn't even notice that.
283
00:15:47,910 --> 00:15:50,329
I still feel the urges but...
284
00:15:50,329 --> 00:15:53,540
- Less so?
- Very much less.
285
00:15:53,540 --> 00:15:54,833
We can do more work.
286
00:15:54,833 --> 00:15:57,461
But that was very good
for today.
287
00:15:57,461 --> 00:15:58,796
That's incredible.
288
00:15:58,796 --> 00:16:03,092
I really did not think
that was going to work at all.
289
00:16:04,385 --> 00:16:06,178
We have these
amazing results.
290
00:16:07,179 --> 00:16:08,847
But there's still
this feeling of,
291
00:16:08,847 --> 00:16:10,974
well, you guys
don't have any credentials.
292
00:16:10,974 --> 00:16:13,894
When conventional solutions
don't work,
293
00:16:13,894 --> 00:16:16,814
maybe the unconventional way
of thinking does.
294
00:16:16,814 --> 00:16:19,066
It is certainly
not double-blind tested.
295
00:16:19,066 --> 00:16:21,068
But the truth of the matter is,
296
00:16:21,068 --> 00:16:23,654
sometimes you want to go
to something that's unique.
297
00:16:25,823 --> 00:16:28,617
It was so tangible,
it was so palpable,
298
00:16:28,617 --> 00:16:29,702
these results.
299
00:16:29,702 --> 00:16:32,121
It's not a question of,
"Can we help people?"
300
00:16:32,121 --> 00:16:35,249
It's literally, we know that
when we give the green light
301
00:16:35,249 --> 00:16:38,335
to someone, you no longer
will be dealing with Tourette's.
302
00:16:44,425 --> 00:16:46,593
I'm just trying to think
if we can just cut for this,
303
00:16:46,593 --> 00:16:47,803
I don't know if it's best if--
304
00:16:47,803 --> 00:16:51,390
I mean, I can talk--
I mean, Isabella is... um...
305
00:16:51,390 --> 00:16:53,267
I just think that, you know,
306
00:16:53,267 --> 00:16:55,060
the people that...
307
00:16:55,060 --> 00:16:58,230
uh, that we helped
with Tourette syndrome,
308
00:16:59,273 --> 00:17:00,524
you know, if they...
309
00:17:03,318 --> 00:17:05,821
you know, if they want to speak
publicly about, you know,
310
00:17:05,821 --> 00:17:09,116
their experience with us,
you know, that's up to them.
311
00:17:10,993 --> 00:17:16,248
♪ (SOFT MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
312
00:17:16,248 --> 00:17:17,791
Some people thought
313
00:17:17,791 --> 00:17:20,627
the study would be
the saving grace of the company
314
00:17:20,627 --> 00:17:25,299
because it showed
this amazing transformation.
315
00:17:25,299 --> 00:17:30,137
Everyone in NXIVM is having
this much of an extreme change,
316
00:17:30,137 --> 00:17:32,222
but you can't see it physically.
317
00:17:33,390 --> 00:17:35,642
And I think this made it
much more obvious
318
00:17:35,642 --> 00:17:38,145
that they had profound tools.
319
00:17:42,065 --> 00:17:43,358
Oh!
320
00:17:43,358 --> 00:17:46,278
{\an8}My arms are just like this
every time.
321
00:17:46,278 --> 00:17:49,740
{\an8}Like I hit myself
and I have to punch myself.
322
00:17:50,783 --> 00:17:52,534
Since I was
six or seven.
323
00:17:52,534 --> 00:17:54,495
It was just very hard
with Tourette's.
324
00:17:56,413 --> 00:17:59,833
Partly because there
was a lot of OCD involved too.
325
00:17:59,833 --> 00:18:01,710
Well, my OCD makes me
326
00:18:01,710 --> 00:18:04,421
toss a plate up and down,
even with food on it.
327
00:18:04,421 --> 00:18:06,715
Any urge
you could imagine.
328
00:18:06,715 --> 00:18:08,133
Yelling, screaming,
329
00:18:08,133 --> 00:18:10,177
hitting myself,
hitting other things.
330
00:18:12,095 --> 00:18:15,516
{\an8}She has some of the worst tics
I've ever seen.
331
00:18:17,601 --> 00:18:19,978
If there's one thing
that I could give kids
332
00:18:19,978 --> 00:18:22,105
who have tics,
it would be resilience.
333
00:18:22,105 --> 00:18:23,357
You know what that means?
334
00:18:23,357 --> 00:18:26,068
The ability to say, "Yeah,
you know, my tics are tough,
335
00:18:26,068 --> 00:18:28,028
but I'm not going to let them
stop me."
336
00:18:28,028 --> 00:18:29,154
I have that.
337
00:18:29,154 --> 00:18:32,449
You do have that,
I could tell that.
338
00:18:32,449 --> 00:18:36,203
Growing up in general,
I think I had a lot of hope.
339
00:18:36,203 --> 00:18:38,539
Honestly, I assumed
that I would wake up one day
340
00:18:38,539 --> 00:18:39,748
and it would just be gone.
341
00:18:39,748 --> 00:18:41,834
- You love me.
- Thank you.
342
00:18:41,834 --> 00:18:44,920
You really love me.
343
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:46,380
Thank you so much...
344
00:18:49,091 --> 00:18:51,426
Towards my last year of college,
345
00:18:51,426 --> 00:18:53,178
it started to get
very bad again.
346
00:18:56,932 --> 00:19:01,103
At that point, I think
we would have done anything.
347
00:19:02,813 --> 00:19:04,189
- Hi.
348
00:19:04,189 --> 00:19:05,482
- Hi, Nancy.
- Isabella.
349
00:19:05,482 --> 00:19:06,859
Nice to meet you.
350
00:19:06,859 --> 00:19:09,403
Do you have any fear?
351
00:19:09,403 --> 00:19:10,946
- Not getting rid of it--
- About losing it?
352
00:19:10,946 --> 00:19:13,532
- No. That's all I ever wanted.
- No? Okay.
353
00:19:13,532 --> 00:19:14,700
Marc is the first person...
354
00:19:14,700 --> 00:19:16,451
Nancy talked with me
and my mom,
355
00:19:16,451 --> 00:19:20,372
and then went downstairs
and we did our first EM.
356
00:19:21,665 --> 00:19:25,711
There's so much going on
that I can't do things
357
00:19:25,711 --> 00:19:27,796
and tic at the same time.
So when I can,
358
00:19:27,796 --> 00:19:29,715
I try to finish the tics,
and I sometimes,
359
00:19:29,715 --> 00:19:33,719
I try to tic and do the things
I need to for this job
360
00:19:33,719 --> 00:19:35,387
at the same time,
but it doesn't work.
361
00:19:35,387 --> 00:19:38,682
So I'll spend hours
trying to finish one tic
362
00:19:38,682 --> 00:19:41,059
that I started
three hours before.
363
00:19:41,059 --> 00:19:42,394
You have to finish the tic.
364
00:19:42,394 --> 00:19:44,688
Yeah, they don't just happen
for me...
365
00:19:44,688 --> 00:19:46,982
It was about day three,
366
00:19:46,982 --> 00:19:49,776
I had the initial
perceptual shift.
367
00:19:49,776 --> 00:19:52,863
And we looked back
to the first time I remember,
368
00:19:52,863 --> 00:19:54,114
like, really ticcing.
369
00:19:55,365 --> 00:19:59,119
I was in third grade,
and I had to clear my throat.
370
00:19:59,870 --> 00:20:00,913
So I did.
371
00:20:01,914 --> 00:20:03,248
Then I kept having to clear it.
372
00:20:05,417 --> 00:20:07,169
The awareness,
the shift was that...
373
00:20:08,253 --> 00:20:10,213
..."What if I had that feeling
374
00:20:10,213 --> 00:20:12,633
and I chose
to respond that way?"
375
00:20:12,633 --> 00:20:14,885
Whereas someone else
may have had that feeling,
376
00:20:14,885 --> 00:20:17,888
said, "Oh, that's a feeling."
And went about their day.
377
00:20:19,765 --> 00:20:22,100
What if bodies
are uncomfortable?
378
00:20:22,100 --> 00:20:23,644
And that's what I did.
379
00:20:23,644 --> 00:20:26,647
But what if
I didn't have to, though?
380
00:20:26,647 --> 00:20:29,316
It made Tourette's a...
381
00:20:33,028 --> 00:20:34,071
a choice.
382
00:20:35,530 --> 00:20:37,407
It just--
It had never occurred to me.
383
00:20:37,407 --> 00:20:39,785
It wasn't something
that I ever realized...
384
00:20:41,245 --> 00:20:42,454
could have been...
385
00:20:44,539 --> 00:20:48,043
true. It's just, like,
it changed everything.
386
00:20:48,043 --> 00:20:52,005
I always felt that...
387
00:20:52,005 --> 00:20:55,258
I always felt that my body
betrayed me when I was seven
388
00:20:55,258 --> 00:20:57,344
{\an8}and I never forgave it.
389
00:20:57,344 --> 00:20:59,805
{\an8}But I realized
it might have been my mind.
390
00:21:00,472 --> 00:21:03,016
{\an8}I feel more in charge.
391
00:21:03,016 --> 00:21:04,977
{\an8}And I still am feeling
the urges,
392
00:21:04,977 --> 00:21:07,646
{\an8}but they seem to be
less intense.
393
00:21:07,646 --> 00:21:10,190
{\an8}Yeah, and I talked with my dad
last night for like 20 minutes.
394
00:21:10,190 --> 00:21:12,275
{\an8}He called my mom, he said,
"It was really great
395
00:21:12,275 --> 00:21:14,236
{\an8}having such a fluid
conversation with her.
396
00:21:14,236 --> 00:21:16,488
{\an8}No freezing,
no stopping in the talking,
397
00:21:16,488 --> 00:21:19,032
{\an8}no... none of that."
398
00:21:19,032 --> 00:21:22,369
{\an8}On a scale of one to ten,
my OCD was definitely...
399
00:21:23,495 --> 00:21:24,913
{\an8}ten.
400
00:21:24,913 --> 00:21:28,291
{\an8}Or 12. Not 11.
Even numbers.
401
00:21:28,291 --> 00:21:31,003
{\an8}Sorry. And now...
402
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,172
{\an8}It's a, uh, maybe a one or two.
403
00:21:35,132 --> 00:21:36,341
{\an8}A lot better.
404
00:21:37,509 --> 00:21:38,719
{\an8}Probably a one.
405
00:21:38,719 --> 00:21:42,014
{\an8}'Cause, you know, it doesn't
need to be even.
406
00:21:42,014 --> 00:21:44,433
{\an8}Once in a while,
I'll do another tic.
407
00:21:44,433 --> 00:21:49,146
{\an8}but not consistently enough
to say that I do those tics.
408
00:21:49,146 --> 00:21:51,732
{\an8}And I don't think
I would feel comfortable
409
00:21:51,732 --> 00:21:55,360
{\an8}telling anyone from now on
that I have Tourette's.
410
00:21:56,319 --> 00:21:59,698
{\an8}♪ (SOFT MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
411
00:22:03,535 --> 00:22:04,995
I was super grateful
to Nancy.
412
00:22:04,995 --> 00:22:06,747
I was so happy.
413
00:22:06,747 --> 00:22:09,249
Like, it changed my life.
It did.
414
00:22:10,792 --> 00:22:13,295
Like, I'm always going to be
so grateful for that.
415
00:22:16,673 --> 00:22:19,092
I mean, that has nothing to do
with why I left.
416
00:22:27,726 --> 00:22:29,770
A secret group
stirring up controversy
417
00:22:29,770 --> 00:22:31,188
here in the Capitol Region.
418
00:22:31,188 --> 00:22:33,440
The report out today
says that some female members
419
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,318
have been branded
with the founder's initials.
420
00:23:12,854 --> 00:23:16,316
There are things
going on that are much more
421
00:23:17,275 --> 00:23:18,819
dangerous than I imagined.
422
00:23:20,695 --> 00:23:23,281
{\an8}Like I knew some shady things
were going on,
423
00:23:23,281 --> 00:23:25,117
but I also had justified it.
424
00:23:34,209 --> 00:23:36,086
Hey, Isabella, it's me, um,
425
00:23:36,086 --> 00:23:38,964
just checking in with you.
I wanted to see if you're okay,
426
00:23:38,964 --> 00:23:40,340
and when you're coming back?
427
00:23:40,340 --> 00:23:42,467
Okay, so they actually
do sound worried.
428
00:23:42,926 --> 00:23:43,844
Fuck!
429
00:23:43,844 --> 00:23:45,220
Hey, Isabella,
430
00:23:45,220 --> 00:23:46,346
we haven't heard from you,
431
00:23:46,346 --> 00:23:48,181
and Justin and Marc
were looking for you.
432
00:23:48,181 --> 00:23:50,308
So, getting a little worried
about you.
433
00:23:50,308 --> 00:23:51,810
And I didn't--
I didn't respond,
434
00:23:51,810 --> 00:23:53,562
and someone else
texted me something.
435
00:23:53,562 --> 00:23:54,855
"Hey, can you chat?"
436
00:24:00,819 --> 00:24:03,447
Hi, I'm sorry.
437
00:24:03,447 --> 00:24:04,948
It's been
a kind of a crazy week.
438
00:24:04,948 --> 00:24:06,324
Sounds like.
439
00:24:06,324 --> 00:24:09,119
{\an8}I heard you ran out
in the middle of the night.
440
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:13,790
{\an8}I got some information
that I didn't think was good.
441
00:24:15,750 --> 00:24:16,751
I didn't think--
442
00:24:18,086 --> 00:24:19,713
I'm just evaluating some things,
443
00:24:19,713 --> 00:24:23,383
and I didn't think Albany
was the best place to do it.
444
00:24:23,383 --> 00:24:25,385
Isabella,
who do you think-- what do you--
445
00:24:25,385 --> 00:24:27,512
Who do you think I am?
What do you think I do?
446
00:24:27,512 --> 00:24:30,640
I-- I love you, Marc,
I love you so much.
447
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,267
It has nothing to do with--
448
00:24:32,267 --> 00:24:34,769
It has everything
to do with it, darling.
449
00:24:36,229 --> 00:24:38,607
I don't know what--
What happened?
450
00:24:39,482 --> 00:24:40,567
I'm so sad.
451
00:24:40,567 --> 00:24:43,195
No, I'm sad, too.
I just-- I got information...
452
00:24:43,195 --> 00:24:44,696
I don't know what you...
453
00:24:44,696 --> 00:24:49,367
Some women decided to do a brand
as a way to fucking bond.
454
00:24:49,367 --> 00:24:50,702
No, no, no, no, no.
455
00:24:50,702 --> 00:24:52,871
- Women were told...
- Do you think--
456
00:24:52,871 --> 00:24:55,040
...that they were going
to get a tattoo,
457
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,292
and it was not an informed...
458
00:24:58,460 --> 00:25:00,670
Okay,
what if that's not true?
459
00:25:01,296 --> 00:25:02,380
What if it is?
460
00:25:03,715 --> 00:25:06,301
If that was true, Isabella,
461
00:25:06,968 --> 00:25:09,763
that's called illegal.
462
00:25:10,722 --> 00:25:13,600
That's called assault.
463
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:14,768
Yeah, I know.
464
00:25:14,768 --> 00:25:16,478
That's why
I don't think it's good.
465
00:25:16,478 --> 00:25:21,775
That's why I'm choosing to
not be in Albany right now.
466
00:25:21,775 --> 00:25:24,819
I don't think you
understand what you're doing.
467
00:25:24,819 --> 00:25:25,987
What am I doing?
468
00:25:27,322 --> 00:25:28,531
Believing people...
469
00:25:29,908 --> 00:25:32,869
that I don't think are being
very honest with you.
470
00:25:32,869 --> 00:25:34,246
And there's nothing I can do.
471
00:25:34,246 --> 00:25:36,206
Other than that
I just feel really sad.
472
00:25:36,957 --> 00:25:38,541
Marc, I'm really sad.
473
00:25:39,876 --> 00:25:42,587
But it might be also helpful
to look at who you're believing
474
00:25:42,587 --> 00:25:44,464
that may not be honest with you.
475
00:25:44,464 --> 00:25:46,007
You know,
you have to decide
476
00:25:46,007 --> 00:25:47,926
who you want to trust.
477
00:25:47,926 --> 00:25:50,887
Nancy and myself, we were able
to do things for you
478
00:25:50,887 --> 00:25:53,974
that in your entire life
nobody could help you with.
479
00:25:53,974 --> 00:25:57,143
Now, you're just sitting there
saying that you can't trust me.
480
00:25:57,143 --> 00:25:59,479
Marc, I'm not saying
that I can't trust you.
481
00:25:59,479 --> 00:26:02,357
Yes, you are.
You're trusting people
482
00:26:02,357 --> 00:26:05,318
who are doing
destructive things.
483
00:26:05,318 --> 00:26:08,113
You realize this might affect
the Tourette's?
484
00:26:08,113 --> 00:26:10,448
My Tourette's?
Or yours or the study?
485
00:26:11,700 --> 00:26:13,451
Helping people
with Tourette.
486
00:26:14,828 --> 00:26:15,829
Well...
487
00:26:17,205 --> 00:26:18,456
There's gonna be a day
488
00:26:18,456 --> 00:26:21,001
when you realize
this stuff isn't true, Isabella.
489
00:26:22,919 --> 00:26:25,297
Marc, I pray to God,
I wish it wasn't true.
490
00:26:25,297 --> 00:26:26,464
I really do.
491
00:26:27,924 --> 00:26:30,176
I'm telling you right now, Isabella.
492
00:26:31,594 --> 00:26:33,179
It's not true.
493
00:26:34,639 --> 00:26:37,350
I am going to keep helping
people get over Tourette's.
494
00:26:37,350 --> 00:26:40,145
You know we have
the best results in the world.
495
00:26:41,438 --> 00:26:44,274
I'm gonna hop off,
and it's not a personal offence,
496
00:26:44,274 --> 00:26:46,318
like, I don't mean it
to be that way.
497
00:26:46,318 --> 00:26:48,278
I care a lot about everyone.
498
00:26:48,278 --> 00:26:50,322
It has nothing to do
with the people.
499
00:26:50,322 --> 00:26:51,656
It's just-- It's not--
500
00:26:51,656 --> 00:26:54,034
Things haven't been
handled well, I don't think.
501
00:26:54,034 --> 00:26:55,744
- Okay, I'll see you.
- Bye, Marc.
502
00:26:55,744 --> 00:26:58,121
- Be well, Isabella.
- Love you.
503
00:27:12,802 --> 00:27:15,055
{\an8}- What?
- Mm.
504
00:27:18,224 --> 00:27:19,768
{\an8}Mm, it's so good to see you.
505
00:27:20,852 --> 00:27:22,145
I brought wine and Oreos.
506
00:27:22,145 --> 00:27:23,897
You're the best
507
00:27:25,607 --> 00:27:30,195
I've been getting calls
and like, Marc can intellect.
508
00:27:30,195 --> 00:27:33,114
Like, you know,
people can intellect things.
509
00:27:33,114 --> 00:27:35,533
- I've known Marc since 2004.
- Yeah.
510
00:27:35,533 --> 00:27:37,243
I knew him when he had
full-blown Tourette's.
511
00:27:37,243 --> 00:27:39,954
Before I resigned, I was talking
to Marc, and I said, "Okay,
512
00:27:39,954 --> 00:27:42,415
under what circumstances
would you leave ESP?
513
00:27:42,415 --> 00:27:45,877
Well, what if Keith
was convicted of...
514
00:27:47,128 --> 00:27:48,797
embezzling money?"
515
00:27:48,797 --> 00:27:51,174
And he said,
"Let the courts decide that."
516
00:27:51,716 --> 00:27:53,051
I was like, "Okay,
517
00:27:53,051 --> 00:27:56,179
what if he was found
guilty of rape?"
518
00:27:57,847 --> 00:28:00,600
And he said, "I'm curing...
519
00:28:02,018 --> 00:28:03,019
Tourette's.
520
00:28:04,020 --> 00:28:06,398
I'm changing people's lives.
521
00:28:08,316 --> 00:28:09,859
I will never leave ESP."
522
00:28:10,860 --> 00:28:13,863
♪ (MELANCHOLIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
523
00:28:18,660 --> 00:28:21,579
I just think
Keith's a pioneer.
524
00:28:21,579 --> 00:28:23,748
I think he has
an incredible mind
525
00:28:23,748 --> 00:28:26,543
and capacity to help people.
526
00:28:28,336 --> 00:28:30,422
A lot of times people will say,
"Well, Marc, you know,
527
00:28:30,422 --> 00:28:31,714
why don't you just go break off,
528
00:28:31,714 --> 00:28:33,299
and why don't you just go
do your own thing,
529
00:28:33,299 --> 00:28:35,802
and why don't you just go help
other people with Tourette's?"
530
00:28:35,802 --> 00:28:37,512
And it's just not that simple.
531
00:28:37,512 --> 00:28:42,684
Because of now how everything
is equated to being a sex cult,
532
00:28:42,684 --> 00:28:45,770
anything I do in the world
moving forward,
533
00:28:45,770 --> 00:28:47,147
they're going to attack me.
534
00:28:47,147 --> 00:28:51,109
Because I'm unwilling to disavow
my friend, Keith Raniere.
535
00:28:51,109 --> 00:28:53,153
I will always be a hated figure.
536
00:29:00,994 --> 00:29:02,328
{\an8}- Hey!
- Hi, how's it going?
537
00:29:02,328 --> 00:29:05,540
{\an8}I believe that that the only way
that I foresee at the moment
538
00:29:05,540 --> 00:29:08,001
to be able to help people
Tourette's in the future,
539
00:29:08,001 --> 00:29:10,628
is I have to expose
this injustice.
540
00:29:10,628 --> 00:29:13,089
An inmate at a federal prison.
541
00:29:13,089 --> 00:29:14,424
Raniere.
542
00:29:14,424 --> 00:29:16,634
Hey, Keith.
543
00:29:18,553 --> 00:29:20,263
We're going to do
everything we can.
544
00:29:29,898 --> 00:29:31,691
Hello.
545
00:29:31,691 --> 00:29:33,318
How are you?
546
00:29:33,318 --> 00:29:34,903
Good, how are you? I'm Nancy.
547
00:29:34,903 --> 00:29:37,030
Hi, Nancy.
Pleasure to meet you.
548
00:29:37,030 --> 00:29:40,742
{\an8}I'm really happy
that, um... that I'm...
549
00:29:40,742 --> 00:29:43,536
having an opportunity
to speak to you.
550
00:29:43,536 --> 00:29:47,040
My cat is--
Come here, Mouse. Come here.
551
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:48,166
Your cat's name is Mouse?
552
00:29:48,166 --> 00:29:49,751
Yes, wait.
You have to see him.
553
00:29:53,421 --> 00:29:56,382
- Hairless cat.
- Yes, he's really sweet.
554
00:29:57,717 --> 00:30:00,970
I think he's trying to be here
with me during-- during this.
555
00:30:00,970 --> 00:30:03,348
Have you had
any support at all?
556
00:30:03,348 --> 00:30:06,351
No, nothing,
no professional support.
557
00:30:06,351 --> 00:30:09,604
What's your perception right now
of what you went through?
558
00:30:10,230 --> 00:30:12,357
Um. Keith was...
559
00:30:12,357 --> 00:30:14,984
Well, in the beginning,
he was kind.
560
00:30:14,984 --> 00:30:19,113
But he got more and more
and more controlling
561
00:30:19,113 --> 00:30:20,240
as time went on.
562
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,493
But I don't think
I ever thought about leaving.
563
00:30:23,493 --> 00:30:25,912
I-- I just thought...
564
00:30:28,081 --> 00:30:29,165
he was difficult.
565
00:30:29,165 --> 00:30:31,709
I think it's important
for people to,
566
00:30:31,709 --> 00:30:34,546
when they look back
and deconstruct their--
567
00:30:34,546 --> 00:30:36,297
this experience,
568
00:30:36,297 --> 00:30:39,884
if you can think of like
your life in three identities.
569
00:30:40,677 --> 00:30:42,762
There's the identity before,
570
00:30:42,762 --> 00:30:45,682
where there was something
lacking in your life.
571
00:30:45,682 --> 00:30:50,186
So then identity number two
is you get almost intoxicated
572
00:30:50,186 --> 00:30:53,690
with this feeling, like,
"I found this great thing,"
573
00:30:53,690 --> 00:30:55,775
and you get
the whole camaraderie
574
00:30:55,775 --> 00:30:56,901
and the community
575
00:30:56,901 --> 00:30:58,820
and all of that
and it feels really good.
576
00:30:58,820 --> 00:31:03,157
And then when that world
crumbles like it has for you,
577
00:31:03,658 --> 00:31:05,410
who am I now?
578
00:31:05,410 --> 00:31:09,247
But you can get there by looking
at your first identity.
579
00:31:09,247 --> 00:31:13,668
And try to get at
why were you vulnerable
580
00:31:13,668 --> 00:31:15,920
to these kinds
of control tactics?
581
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,881
♪ (MELANCHOLIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
582
00:31:26,347 --> 00:31:28,975
When Keith
left the country,
583
00:31:28,975 --> 00:31:31,019
I started waking up
in the morning
584
00:31:31,019 --> 00:31:32,854
feeling peaceful.
585
00:31:35,857 --> 00:31:39,527
And I would think to myself,
"What is wrong with you?"
586
00:31:39,527 --> 00:31:42,655
You have this wonderful life
that he helped you create.
587
00:31:43,489 --> 00:31:45,783
Like, what is wrong with you?
588
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:53,833
Mic.
589
00:31:54,876 --> 00:31:57,879
So, I have someone who is...
590
00:31:59,505 --> 00:32:00,757
in the external world,
591
00:32:00,757 --> 00:32:04,260
it would look like telling me
something I already know.
592
00:32:04,260 --> 00:32:06,262
{\an8}I can-- I can--
593
00:32:10,016 --> 00:32:11,851
{\an8}Um. In the future,
it might be good
594
00:32:11,851 --> 00:32:14,187
if I'm speaking, let me speak.
595
00:32:14,187 --> 00:32:16,939
{\an8}And then-- No, no.
And then say that afterwards.
596
00:32:17,815 --> 00:32:18,816
Um...
597
00:32:21,069 --> 00:32:22,904
In any situation, you can learn.
598
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:25,657
I was terrified of Keith.
599
00:32:27,825 --> 00:32:30,370
Whenever I was
in a meeting with other people,
600
00:32:31,245 --> 00:32:33,665
he acted like I wasn't there.
601
00:32:33,665 --> 00:32:38,002
He would correct me
whenever I said anything.
602
00:32:39,420 --> 00:32:41,589
He purposely disempowered me.
603
00:32:42,965 --> 00:32:45,635
So when he was around,
I never opened my mouth.
604
00:32:49,555 --> 00:32:52,225
But I always wanted
his approval.
605
00:32:56,562 --> 00:32:58,106
He got me into a...
606
00:32:59,649 --> 00:33:00,900
You know, like, a reenactment
607
00:33:00,900 --> 00:33:03,653
of trying to get approval
from my mother.
608
00:33:07,365 --> 00:33:11,703
When I was six years old,
my teacher called a meeting
609
00:33:11,703 --> 00:33:15,707
and she told my mother
that I was dyslexic.
610
00:33:17,041 --> 00:33:20,253
And I thought it was something
I should be ashamed of.
611
00:33:25,925 --> 00:33:29,679
I didn't do well in school
in my early years and...
612
00:33:34,809 --> 00:33:37,812
...my mom used to call me
her "little dummy."
613
00:33:38,563 --> 00:33:41,149
♪ (MELANCHOLIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
614
00:33:41,149 --> 00:33:47,321
She used to say, "If they gave
As for people loving you,
615
00:33:47,321 --> 00:33:51,909
Nancy would get an A every time.
Everyone loves Nancy."
616
00:33:56,372 --> 00:33:59,083
So I was always wanting
to do things
617
00:33:59,083 --> 00:34:01,294
that would make her
feel happy with me.
618
00:34:01,294 --> 00:34:05,381
And I grew up and I just
accommodated everybody
619
00:34:06,257 --> 00:34:08,593
because I wanted approval.
620
00:34:08,593 --> 00:34:10,136
- Keep your...
- Yeah.
621
00:34:10,136 --> 00:34:11,596
- ...walkie-talkie.
- Yeah, yeah.
622
00:34:11,596 --> 00:34:13,639
And I believe
that Keith knew
623
00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:14,974
that I always needed approval,
624
00:34:14,974 --> 00:34:17,810
and therefore he always
withheld approval.
625
00:34:19,020 --> 00:34:20,480
And the more
he withheld approval,
626
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,064
the harder I worked.
627
00:34:22,064 --> 00:34:24,317
- Oh, you want me in it a little?
- Yeah. But not--
628
00:34:24,317 --> 00:34:25,860
But just not moving forward.
Okay, I'll do this.
629
00:34:25,860 --> 00:34:27,945
At certain points you're
directly in front of Keith.
630
00:34:27,945 --> 00:34:29,697
If I didn't behave in the way
631
00:34:29,697 --> 00:34:31,616
he wanted me to behave,
632
00:34:31,616 --> 00:34:35,077
he would tell me
I was breaching my ethics
633
00:34:35,077 --> 00:34:37,246
and that I wasn't strong.
634
00:34:38,748 --> 00:34:42,168
I think that's how
Keith got me to do everything
635
00:34:42,168 --> 00:34:43,711
that he got me to do.
636
00:34:43,711 --> 00:34:47,423
Constantly made me feel like
nothing I did was good enough.
637
00:34:59,894 --> 00:35:02,980
I set this up
after I moved back home.
638
00:35:05,233 --> 00:35:08,152
All of the paintings I did
before ESP,
639
00:35:08,152 --> 00:35:13,366
I did in pure states
of creativity and curiosity.
640
00:35:16,744 --> 00:35:20,373
After I worked with Nancy,
I was working on these.
641
00:35:21,791 --> 00:35:25,002
I think that's around the time
I stopped finishing paintings.
642
00:35:26,879 --> 00:35:29,841
I haven't really painted
since 2015.
643
00:35:31,801 --> 00:35:33,845
Why do we teach you states?
644
00:35:33,845 --> 00:35:35,221
What are we teaching you?
645
00:35:35,221 --> 00:35:37,557
Yeah, that you can control
anything, that you can--
646
00:35:37,557 --> 00:35:42,061
Anytime you feel not good,
that's a choice
647
00:35:42,061 --> 00:35:45,064
that you're pretending
you're not in control of.
648
00:35:45,064 --> 00:35:47,149
You're pretending
that you don't have a choice
649
00:35:47,149 --> 00:35:48,234
in that moment,
650
00:35:48,234 --> 00:35:50,444
or you're just enjoying
being miserable.
651
00:35:51,904 --> 00:35:53,948
When I worked
with Nancy initially,
652
00:35:53,948 --> 00:35:57,201
I think I recognized choice
in a different way.
653
00:35:59,453 --> 00:36:02,081
You see that you can
literally do anything
654
00:36:02,081 --> 00:36:04,792
in ways that even just people
every day, I think,
655
00:36:04,792 --> 00:36:07,295
don't always recognize.
656
00:36:07,295 --> 00:36:12,592
Except that it becomes basically
like, how did you author this?
657
00:36:12,592 --> 00:36:13,968
How is this your fault?
658
00:36:15,636 --> 00:36:17,513
I've been doing
a lot of the contortions lately,
659
00:36:17,513 --> 00:36:20,057
and it's, I think,
really frustrating
660
00:36:20,057 --> 00:36:23,060
because I know I can stop...
661
00:36:24,353 --> 00:36:27,189
but it's hard.
662
00:36:27,189 --> 00:36:30,192
I was very ashamed
of everything about Tourette's
663
00:36:30,192 --> 00:36:33,946
because of how they attributed
it to your deficiencies
664
00:36:33,946 --> 00:36:35,990
and the things
you're failing at.
665
00:36:35,990 --> 00:36:37,783
We know what we should be,
666
00:36:37,783 --> 00:36:40,870
what we want to be,
the perfect us,
667
00:36:40,870 --> 00:36:45,249
versus the physiological values
of how we feel.
668
00:36:45,249 --> 00:36:47,335
If you go with your body,
669
00:36:47,335 --> 00:36:50,546
you breach
your ideological ethics.
670
00:36:50,546 --> 00:36:53,841
I didn't want to tic
because I thought that was me
671
00:36:53,841 --> 00:36:55,801
being a terrible person.
672
00:36:56,761 --> 00:36:58,971
I've been...
673
00:36:58,971 --> 00:37:02,642
I don't know if more emotional
is the right way to say it.
674
00:37:02,642 --> 00:37:05,895
It's probably from coming off
of the meds.
675
00:37:05,895 --> 00:37:09,315
I was being pressured
to go off of meds.
676
00:37:09,315 --> 00:37:11,776
I'd been on about
40 different meds
677
00:37:11,776 --> 00:37:13,486
since the time I was ten.
678
00:37:13,486 --> 00:37:16,113
The physical withdrawal,
I wouldn't wish on anyone.
679
00:37:16,113 --> 00:37:18,240
I've been having
a lot of anxiety.
680
00:37:19,408 --> 00:37:22,453
I can't eat or sleep.
681
00:37:22,453 --> 00:37:25,247
I just got off the phone
with Marc.
682
00:37:25,247 --> 00:37:28,584
He said it's good that my body
is doing all these things
683
00:37:28,584 --> 00:37:32,713
because I'm adj--
adjusting and changing.
684
00:37:32,713 --> 00:37:36,217
It doesn't feel good.
But it probably is.
685
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,180
Once I stopped ticcing,
all of these other things
686
00:37:41,180 --> 00:37:42,932
started to manifest.
687
00:37:44,350 --> 00:37:46,268
My OCD got worse
688
00:37:46,268 --> 00:37:49,355
and I was struggling,
like, immensely.
689
00:37:49,355 --> 00:37:53,484
I would reach out to Nancy
or I would try to talk to Marc
690
00:37:53,484 --> 00:37:54,735
and everyone would say,
691
00:37:54,735 --> 00:37:56,654
"But why are you choosing
to do this?"
692
00:37:56,654 --> 00:37:58,489
♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
693
00:37:58,489 --> 00:38:01,826
At one point,
Nancy brought me aside and goes,
694
00:38:01,826 --> 00:38:04,120
"You're just being
very attention seeking."
695
00:38:05,413 --> 00:38:08,499
I remember, she said that
and I was so scared.
696
00:38:08,499 --> 00:38:11,460
I didn't want
to be attention seeking.
697
00:38:11,460 --> 00:38:14,296
Like I didn't want
to be unethical.
698
00:38:15,339 --> 00:38:16,757
So I just withdrew.
699
00:38:21,303 --> 00:38:25,808
And so it's true
I stopped ticcing,
700
00:38:25,808 --> 00:38:28,477
but I became broken
in other ways.
701
00:38:41,699 --> 00:38:44,035
Probably a year into NXIVM,
702
00:38:44,035 --> 00:38:48,497
we noticed her personality
changed dramatically.
703
00:38:49,749 --> 00:38:55,671
She became very controlled,
and she had lost her voice.
704
00:38:55,671 --> 00:38:57,923
You joining us, Belle,
or are you gonna--
705
00:38:57,923 --> 00:38:59,842
- I'm gonna stand.
- You're gonna stand?
706
00:38:59,842 --> 00:39:01,218
Yeah.
707
00:39:01,218 --> 00:39:03,429
I actually do want to ask you
a question, but I don't want
708
00:39:03,429 --> 00:39:06,140
to have a conversation
like this, please.
709
00:39:11,979 --> 00:39:15,608
So, during that study,
you would be angry.
710
00:39:15,608 --> 00:39:17,777
What was the anger about?
711
00:39:17,777 --> 00:39:20,488
Uh, the curriculum devalues you
712
00:39:20,488 --> 00:39:23,240
without making it obvious
that it's putting you down.
713
00:39:23,240 --> 00:39:26,994
Like, Marc suggested I take
a penance for still ticcing,
714
00:39:26,994 --> 00:39:28,537
and I was like,
"I don't want to do that."
715
00:39:28,537 --> 00:39:29,747
He was like,
"No, it's with love!"
716
00:39:29,747 --> 00:39:31,957
What-- What's a penance?
What do you mean?
717
00:39:31,957 --> 00:39:34,376
I don't know,
something like...
718
00:39:35,461 --> 00:39:38,172
...to help hold you accountable
719
00:39:38,172 --> 00:39:40,549
for the thing that you say
you want to do.
720
00:39:40,549 --> 00:39:41,884
- If you're not doing it--
- But what--
721
00:39:41,884 --> 00:39:43,052
- What was--
- What did you--
722
00:39:43,052 --> 00:39:44,220
Anything.
I don't know.
723
00:39:44,220 --> 00:39:45,638
People did different things.
They would...
724
00:39:45,638 --> 00:39:47,640
- Sweep the ground?
- Physical? Mental?
725
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,476
Anything. It could be anything.
It could be...
726
00:39:50,476 --> 00:39:52,311
- you know, if you're--
- Give me one of yours.
727
00:39:52,311 --> 00:39:53,813
Do you want me to tell you or...
728
00:39:53,813 --> 00:39:56,690
Give me
an example of what you did.
729
00:39:56,690 --> 00:39:58,567
Can we-- Can I? Okay.
730
00:39:58,567 --> 00:40:01,779
So, some people
would run a mile every day
731
00:40:01,779 --> 00:40:04,990
or some people would not,
you know, eat for a day.
732
00:40:04,990 --> 00:40:07,952
Is... I'm just curious.
733
00:40:07,952 --> 00:40:12,123
Is not being nice
simply trying to make you do
734
00:40:12,123 --> 00:40:13,749
what you don't want to do
at that moment?
735
00:40:13,749 --> 00:40:15,626
No, it's-- it doesn't matter
736
00:40:15,626 --> 00:40:16,961
what you want to do. It's...
737
00:40:18,212 --> 00:40:19,213
what they want to do.
738
00:40:19,213 --> 00:40:21,674
And then they say
it's what you want.
739
00:40:22,424 --> 00:40:24,385
And then they break you, like,
740
00:40:24,385 --> 00:40:26,595
the harder you work,
the more you struggle.
741
00:40:26,595 --> 00:40:28,514
And that's how
they keep you in.
742
00:40:28,514 --> 00:40:30,182
Hmm.
743
00:40:30,182 --> 00:40:34,228
♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
744
00:40:43,279 --> 00:40:49,577
What we found in ESP
was that many of us set goals
745
00:40:49,577 --> 00:40:51,078
but found it difficult
746
00:40:51,078 --> 00:40:54,582
because there wasn't
any consequence.
747
00:40:54,582 --> 00:40:58,460
Like, I had a woman
and she said to me,
748
00:40:58,460 --> 00:41:01,338
"I have a thing
where I-- I have two numbers.
749
00:41:01,338 --> 00:41:03,465
My numbers are eight and nine."
750
00:41:03,465 --> 00:41:04,967
And I said,
"And how does that limit you?"
751
00:41:04,967 --> 00:41:06,135
And she said,
752
00:41:06,135 --> 00:41:09,388
"Well, I'm always late
because I have to do things
753
00:41:09,388 --> 00:41:12,975
89 times or 98 times."
754
00:41:12,975 --> 00:41:15,060
So I disconnected
the stimulus response.
755
00:41:15,060 --> 00:41:17,646
And then I said to her,
"You're going to have to do
756
00:41:17,646 --> 00:41:22,067
something physical to break
the state in the moment."
757
00:41:22,067 --> 00:41:25,029
She said, "Like what?"
And I said, "Like, a plank."
758
00:41:26,322 --> 00:41:28,616
Plank position,
as though you're about to plank.
759
00:41:28,616 --> 00:41:29,909
Nice, straight line.
760
00:41:29,909 --> 00:41:31,035
Come over here.
761
00:41:46,175 --> 00:41:48,427
If you have
a very bad habit,
762
00:41:48,427 --> 00:41:51,597
there's no reason
to stop it, really.
763
00:41:51,597 --> 00:41:53,933
So you have to make it feel bad.
764
00:41:56,310 --> 00:41:58,479
The only way we change something
765
00:41:58,479 --> 00:42:00,564
is when change is easier
than not changing.
766
00:42:00,564 --> 00:42:02,733
And if you don't commit
to a consequence,
767
00:42:02,733 --> 00:42:05,236
you're never going
to break this habit.
768
00:42:15,162 --> 00:42:17,331
That's what I do at the center.
769
00:42:19,792 --> 00:42:20,834
Okay?
770
00:42:25,547 --> 00:42:28,384
That's it.
Enough for the old lady.
771
00:42:30,386 --> 00:42:32,930
Well, she went--
Where was it that you went to?
772
00:42:32,930 --> 00:42:34,723
- Al-- Albany.
- Albany.
773
00:42:35,391 --> 00:42:36,892
That's-- she went there.
774
00:42:36,892 --> 00:42:40,688
And from when she went there
to when she came home...
775
00:42:40,688 --> 00:42:43,190
{\an8}God bless whoever did it.
776
00:42:44,108 --> 00:42:45,693
{\an8}All the saints in heaven.
777
00:42:45,693 --> 00:42:48,153
You got your health,
you got everything.
778
00:42:48,153 --> 00:42:50,948
You could have a million dollars
and not have your health,
779
00:42:50,948 --> 00:42:52,449
what good is it, right?
780
00:42:55,494 --> 00:42:56,495
Yep.
781
00:43:11,093 --> 00:43:13,095
Do you remember
the first time I saw you
782
00:43:13,095 --> 00:43:15,764
when I came back
from the treatment?
783
00:43:15,764 --> 00:43:17,725
{\an8}Oh, I do remember
when you came home
784
00:43:17,725 --> 00:43:19,727
{\an8}and we passed each other,
785
00:43:19,727 --> 00:43:22,229
and I waited for you to, like,
smack me a few times?
786
00:43:22,229 --> 00:43:24,023
If we brushed each other,
I'd have to do like, a routine.
787
00:43:24,023 --> 00:43:25,774
You'd have to like-- yeah.
788
00:43:25,774 --> 00:43:27,610
So I just stood there,
like, waited for it,
789
00:43:27,610 --> 00:43:28,986
and I turned around,
790
00:43:28,986 --> 00:43:30,988
and you were-- you, like,
you kept walking.
791
00:43:30,988 --> 00:43:32,948
I was like, "Oh, cool."
792
00:43:32,948 --> 00:43:35,534
I mean, there was a time
we couldn't touch her.
793
00:43:35,534 --> 00:43:36,660
Now?
794
00:43:37,578 --> 00:43:40,205
That's my baby.
795
00:43:40,205 --> 00:43:42,458
Just testing it,
are you, Mom?
796
00:43:42,458 --> 00:43:44,084
This is what
I can't understand,
797
00:43:44,084 --> 00:43:45,586
how they did it.
798
00:43:45,586 --> 00:43:46,754
It was like,
799
00:43:46,754 --> 00:43:50,883
helping us understand
Tourette's differently.
800
00:43:52,092 --> 00:43:54,636
But like,
it was really difficult.
801
00:43:54,636 --> 00:43:58,724
And, you know, people would say,
"But you had Tourette's."
802
00:43:58,724 --> 00:44:00,934
So there's--
That was always a good one.
803
00:44:00,934 --> 00:44:03,562
People want to--
"But you had Tourette's."
804
00:44:03,562 --> 00:44:06,357
- The key word here is "had."
- Yeah. Yep.
805
00:44:07,691 --> 00:44:10,402
Yeah.
The positive is,
806
00:44:10,402 --> 00:44:13,739
your symptoms are diminished
or eliminated.
807
00:44:13,739 --> 00:44:16,909
You've built new skills
because of NXIVM.
808
00:44:16,909 --> 00:44:21,497
I believe they can make you
more productive, more efficient.
809
00:44:21,497 --> 00:44:22,706
And those are all positives
810
00:44:22,706 --> 00:44:24,583
and you did not have that
when you left here.
811
00:44:24,583 --> 00:44:27,211
You don't think
there are after-effects?
812
00:44:27,211 --> 00:44:28,462
Oh, I'm sure there are.
813
00:44:28,462 --> 00:44:32,299
But whatever happened there,
created this...
814
00:44:33,092 --> 00:44:34,927
effect on your sister.
815
00:44:34,927 --> 00:44:36,720
She was taking medications
to the point
816
00:44:36,720 --> 00:44:38,931
where we were frightened
for her longevity.
817
00:44:38,931 --> 00:44:41,350
No, I mean, I agree
with you guys completely.
818
00:44:41,350 --> 00:44:44,186
It's just, a lot of it was
when I came home,
819
00:44:44,186 --> 00:44:46,814
you guys didn't see
how hard it was.
820
00:44:46,814 --> 00:44:48,690
It was like, "Okay,
you need to get a job.
821
00:44:48,690 --> 00:44:49,858
You need to get going."
822
00:44:49,858 --> 00:44:52,403
It wasn't even, like,
how far I've come.
823
00:44:52,403 --> 00:44:54,613
It was like, "You're behind."
824
00:44:55,322 --> 00:44:57,408
Once again, like in ESP,
825
00:44:57,408 --> 00:45:00,244
I don't feel
a lot of choice here.
826
00:45:01,161 --> 00:45:02,913
Our experience has been
827
00:45:02,913 --> 00:45:04,915
that if we don't set expectations...
828
00:45:06,166 --> 00:45:07,292
nothing happens.
829
00:45:07,292 --> 00:45:12,840
You don't realize how much,
how much it's-- it's taken
830
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,634
to get to this point.
I'm getting better,
831
00:45:15,634 --> 00:45:17,636
but I'm not
in a healthy space here.
832
00:45:17,636 --> 00:45:19,430
Yeah, I... this is...
833
00:45:19,430 --> 00:45:23,183
This is-- I'm gonna--
I'm gonna step away
834
00:45:23,183 --> 00:45:25,227
'cause I'm a little defensive
about it,
835
00:45:25,227 --> 00:45:26,311
'cause I'm really angry.
836
00:45:26,311 --> 00:45:27,938
- I think so. Yeah.
- All right.
837
00:45:30,232 --> 00:45:31,692
I don't know
what's going on, Merr.
838
00:45:31,692 --> 00:45:34,820
- I just... don't know, Merr.
- Hmm.
839
00:45:36,822 --> 00:45:39,032
My approach to Keith
and the leadership
840
00:45:39,032 --> 00:45:42,619
and all the bad is,
that's bad.
841
00:45:42,619 --> 00:45:46,540
It doesn't change the reality.
She was able to do something
842
00:45:46,540 --> 00:45:50,002
simply because she began
to believe in herself to do it.
843
00:45:50,002 --> 00:45:52,921
And it is supportive people
who cared about her around her.
844
00:45:52,921 --> 00:45:55,799
I cannot believe
you can separate it...
845
00:45:57,468 --> 00:45:58,635
the way you are.
846
00:45:59,887 --> 00:46:01,805
No. No.
847
00:46:01,805 --> 00:46:04,600
I-- I-- It makes me so angry...
848
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,019
- Hmm.
- ...that people with power
849
00:46:07,019 --> 00:46:10,147
are taking, you know,
were taking advantage of...
850
00:46:10,981 --> 00:46:12,858
of their knowledge...
851
00:46:12,858 --> 00:46:14,902
...and their position.
852
00:46:14,902 --> 00:46:18,322
I'm not condoning it.
What they did was duplicitous.
853
00:46:20,073 --> 00:46:21,658
But still there was good.
854
00:46:23,911 --> 00:46:25,579
And that good is real.
855
00:46:25,579 --> 00:46:28,957
♪ (SOFT MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
856
00:46:38,884 --> 00:46:41,345
People didn't stay in NXIVM
857
00:46:41,345 --> 00:46:44,389
or even in DOS
because they were coerced.
858
00:46:44,389 --> 00:46:46,975
They stayed in it
because they really thought
859
00:46:46,975 --> 00:46:50,187
they were making society
and the world better,
860
00:46:50,187 --> 00:46:53,148
you know, through these
very tangible things.
861
00:46:53,148 --> 00:46:56,193
The Tourette study
was just fascinating.
862
00:46:56,193 --> 00:46:58,612
Personal growth is hard
to measure.
863
00:46:58,612 --> 00:47:02,658
The Tourette's is measurable.
You know, you could see it.
864
00:47:02,658 --> 00:47:06,370
I think it really comes down to,
"Does this group do good?"
865
00:47:06,370 --> 00:47:09,289
And if it does,
and I think it does,
866
00:47:09,289 --> 00:47:12,209
I don't think a jury is going
to want the government
867
00:47:12,209 --> 00:47:13,418
to have destroyed it.
868
00:47:15,128 --> 00:47:18,090
{\an8}Oh, I-- I don't buy any of it.
869
00:47:18,090 --> 00:47:21,468
{\an8}There have been
studies showing that
cognitive behavioral therapy
870
00:47:21,468 --> 00:47:24,137
{\an8}can be very effective
in Tourette's.
871
00:47:25,722 --> 00:47:27,224
So there may have been techniques
872
00:47:27,224 --> 00:47:28,767
that Nancy Salzman
was able to use
873
00:47:28,767 --> 00:47:32,604
that did reduce some
small number of people's tics,
874
00:47:32,604 --> 00:47:34,731
but that had nothing to do
with Keith Raniere
875
00:47:34,731 --> 00:47:36,233
or NXIVM teachings.
876
00:47:38,527 --> 00:47:40,737
One of the things that made
NXIVM so dangerous
877
00:47:40,737 --> 00:47:43,907
was the way it would use some
legitimate psychological tools
878
00:47:43,907 --> 00:47:46,243
in a really manipulative,
coercive way.
879
00:47:49,621 --> 00:47:51,748
It's really sad
because some of the people
880
00:47:51,748 --> 00:47:54,001
who ended up
in this so-called study
881
00:47:54,001 --> 00:47:55,335
were so vulnerable,
882
00:47:55,335 --> 00:47:58,130
they were absolutely desperate
to deal with this serious,
883
00:47:58,130 --> 00:48:00,299
complicated disease.
884
00:48:00,299 --> 00:48:02,718
And they just ended up
being harmed further.
885
00:48:04,303 --> 00:48:08,098
There was all this pressure
on them to show improvement
886
00:48:08,098 --> 00:48:10,642
so that Keith and NXIVM
would look good.
887
00:48:12,561 --> 00:48:14,187
It's just completely unethical
888
00:48:14,187 --> 00:48:16,481
to experiment
on people this way.
889
00:48:26,867 --> 00:48:28,368
I told my parents
last night
890
00:48:28,368 --> 00:48:29,870
that I was coming here.
891
00:48:32,539 --> 00:48:35,292
Going to the trial, I think,
will be helpful
892
00:48:35,292 --> 00:48:38,462
just to process
and get a sense of closure.
893
00:49:00,609 --> 00:49:02,569
It's taken me
quite a while to understand
894
00:49:02,569 --> 00:49:06,031
that she's probably experienced
something like PTSD.
895
00:49:08,033 --> 00:49:09,242
The deal with the devil
896
00:49:09,242 --> 00:49:11,411
was going in
with our eyes wide open,
897
00:49:11,411 --> 00:49:14,206
knowing that
there was weird stuff going on
898
00:49:14,206 --> 00:49:15,582
in the background here.
899
00:49:16,583 --> 00:49:18,752
But we were willing to take...
900
00:49:20,087 --> 00:49:21,797
what could be a big risk...
901
00:49:23,215 --> 00:49:24,591
to get help for Isabella.
902
00:49:26,593 --> 00:49:29,388
And we believed
that she would be protected
903
00:49:29,388 --> 00:49:32,974
by someone like Nancy,
who had daughters herself.
904
00:49:33,976 --> 00:49:36,228
{\an8}♪ (SOFT MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
905
00:49:39,731 --> 00:49:40,774
Hello.
906
00:49:44,486 --> 00:49:46,863
She used to do these, like...
907
00:49:46,863 --> 00:49:49,241
{\an8}I'd come home from a party
or from whatever
908
00:49:49,241 --> 00:49:52,411
{\an8}and I'd have to wake her up to,
like, tell her that I was home,
909
00:49:52,411 --> 00:49:55,038
{\an8}and she'd like smell me...
910
00:49:55,038 --> 00:49:58,041
...to see if I had been like,
you know, I assume smoking
911
00:49:58,041 --> 00:49:59,918
- or drinking or something.
- Drinking.
912
00:50:03,338 --> 00:50:05,549
Like, she'd wake up inhaling me.
913
00:50:05,549 --> 00:50:06,925
The--
914
00:50:06,925 --> 00:50:08,885
There was one time
when Lauren and I
915
00:50:08,885 --> 00:50:11,263
got really high
and we came home,
916
00:50:11,263 --> 00:50:15,058
and Keith was over.
917
00:50:15,058 --> 00:50:17,352
- No! Really?
- Yes.
918
00:50:17,352 --> 00:50:18,478
This is something that we...
919
00:50:18,478 --> 00:50:20,731
Was this after
Lauren graduated?
920
00:50:20,731 --> 00:50:22,190
Yeah, it was early.
921
00:50:22,190 --> 00:50:23,775
- It was super early.
- So it was when I first
met Keith, right.
922
00:50:23,775 --> 00:50:25,569
I don't even know
if ESP started yet.
923
00:50:25,569 --> 00:50:27,154
No, it was probably that summer.
924
00:50:27,154 --> 00:50:29,239
But we kind of like,
my mom already started learning
925
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:31,992
about parasitic strategies.
926
00:50:31,992 --> 00:50:35,370
And so, things that Lauren and I
were doing...
927
00:50:35,370 --> 00:50:38,165
...she was like,
"You're just being a parasite."
928
00:50:38,165 --> 00:50:41,084
We were like, "What the fuck
are you even talking about?"
929
00:50:41,084 --> 00:50:42,669
They were so mad at me.
930
00:50:42,669 --> 00:50:45,005
Like, who is this person?
931
00:50:45,005 --> 00:50:47,048
- What are you being taught?
- You guys were-- Lauren was--
932
00:50:47,048 --> 00:50:49,551
You were trying
to hold us accountable
933
00:50:49,551 --> 00:50:52,012
with these like new strategies
that you had.
934
00:50:52,012 --> 00:50:53,638
You know,
I always wanted to be
935
00:50:53,638 --> 00:50:55,682
- a good mother.
- Of course.
936
00:50:55,682 --> 00:50:59,102
No, of course, which is why
we did all of this stuff.
937
00:50:59,102 --> 00:51:02,481
- Why we followed you anywhere.
- Right.
938
00:51:07,527 --> 00:51:11,364
♪ (MELANCHOLIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
939
00:51:47,442 --> 00:51:49,319
How could someone
who created something
940
00:51:49,319 --> 00:51:50,904
that was so beautiful,
941
00:51:50,904 --> 00:51:52,948
do something
that was so terrible?
942
00:51:56,117 --> 00:51:58,662
When I first hired my lawyer,
he said,
943
00:51:58,662 --> 00:52:03,208
"Anybody who stands trial
with Keith will go to jail.
944
00:52:04,167 --> 00:52:05,585
You have to plead guilty."
945
00:52:06,837 --> 00:52:08,922
And then he said, "You have
to convince your daughter
946
00:52:08,922 --> 00:52:10,507
to plead guilty too."
947
00:52:13,343 --> 00:52:15,136
We tried to have
the case severed
948
00:52:15,136 --> 00:52:19,683
so that the sex crimes
were on-- in one case
949
00:52:19,683 --> 00:52:22,227
and the non-sex crimes
were in another case,
950
00:52:22,227 --> 00:52:24,563
because they're
very different crimes.
951
00:52:24,563 --> 00:52:27,232
But they made it an enterprise
and they said
952
00:52:27,232 --> 00:52:28,775
they're not severing the case.
953
00:52:30,068 --> 00:52:34,197
I think they arrested me
because they wanted to pit
954
00:52:34,197 --> 00:52:35,824
Lauren and I against each other.
955
00:52:39,286 --> 00:52:42,163
At that point, the only thing
we could do is plead guilty
956
00:52:42,163 --> 00:52:47,252
because if I didn't plead guilty
and get Lauren to plead guilty,
957
00:52:47,252 --> 00:52:49,963
she would have gone to jail
for ten or more years.
958
00:52:52,924 --> 00:52:56,094
Lauren took a little while
to come to terms with it.
959
00:52:57,971 --> 00:53:00,056
The body can do
so much more
960
00:53:00,056 --> 00:53:02,267
than the mind alone.
961
00:53:02,267 --> 00:53:05,270
There's one drill that we do.
You wanna step up?
962
00:53:05,270 --> 00:53:06,646
I mean, I think you've...
963
00:53:06,646 --> 00:53:08,440
Follow my hands
with your hands, right?
964
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:11,484
Follow them exactly.
Pretty good.
965
00:53:11,484 --> 00:53:13,570
But you're thinking too much.
966
00:53:13,570 --> 00:53:16,072
Now, if you do it with me,
uh, if-- if I don't--
967
00:53:16,072 --> 00:53:18,074
- You-- you're not moving.
- Oh, you want me to do--
968
00:53:18,074 --> 00:53:19,743
Oh, I'm in the other position.
969
00:53:22,579 --> 00:53:24,205
I mean, I'm not--
970
00:53:24,205 --> 00:53:25,999
Oh!
971
00:53:25,999 --> 00:53:27,459
- My honey.
- Oh.
972
00:53:27,459 --> 00:53:30,337
- But-- Are you okay?
- Yeah, just give me one sec.
973
00:53:30,337 --> 00:53:31,504
Please hit me.
974
00:53:31,504 --> 00:53:33,506
No, I don't want to.
975
00:53:33,506 --> 00:53:34,799
I'm s-- I'm sorry
976
00:53:34,799 --> 00:53:37,135
- for the-- for the strike.
- It's okay. It's okay.
977
00:53:37,135 --> 00:53:39,429
But if you learn to suspend
your mind,
978
00:53:39,429 --> 00:53:41,097
then the body can do
all sorts of things
979
00:53:41,097 --> 00:53:43,266
that you've never done before.
980
00:53:43,266 --> 00:53:45,101
So I think
what you need to decide
981
00:53:45,101 --> 00:53:47,479
is what do you really want
982
00:53:47,479 --> 00:53:49,314
and how much
are you willing to devote
983
00:53:49,314 --> 00:53:50,690
to being a master at it?
984
00:53:53,401 --> 00:53:55,528
She just loved him
and she wanted to believe
985
00:53:55,528 --> 00:53:57,656
that it wasn't what it was.
986
00:53:58,531 --> 00:53:59,574
Are you okay?
987
00:53:59,574 --> 00:54:00,951
- Yeah.
- Yeah. Okay.
988
00:54:03,703 --> 00:54:05,288
It was very difficult for her,
989
00:54:05,288 --> 00:54:08,583
and what she did was very,
very difficult for her,
990
00:54:08,583 --> 00:54:11,378
and she was the only one
who could do it.
991
00:54:13,546 --> 00:54:16,508
Testify about the sorority.
992
00:54:16,508 --> 00:54:18,635
♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
993
00:54:18,635 --> 00:54:20,720
Lauren gave them
more information
994
00:54:20,720 --> 00:54:22,639
than they knew existed.
995
00:54:23,890 --> 00:54:25,433
She really turned the case.
996
00:54:28,395 --> 00:54:29,521
The second weekend,
997
00:54:29,521 --> 00:54:31,481
the federal NXIVM trial
wraps up in Brooklyn
998
00:54:31,481 --> 00:54:33,566
with Lauren Salzman
on the stand.
999
00:54:33,566 --> 00:54:35,193
Lauren Salzman held
1000
00:54:35,193 --> 00:54:36,945
several high-ranking positions
1001
00:54:36,945 --> 00:54:39,739
and acted as times
as a recruiter, teacher,
1002
00:54:39,739 --> 00:54:41,700
and a DOS master.
1003
00:54:41,700 --> 00:54:43,535
Salzman is the first
co-conspirator
1004
00:54:43,535 --> 00:54:46,329
to testify
against Keith Raniere.
1005
00:54:46,329 --> 00:54:48,707
We will be keeping
our eye on what could turn out
1006
00:54:48,707 --> 00:54:51,668
to be a very pivotal day
in the case.
1007
00:54:54,045 --> 00:54:55,505
The government may call
1008
00:54:55,505 --> 00:54:57,757
its next witness to the stand.
1009
00:54:57,757 --> 00:54:59,050
The government calls
1010
00:54:59,050 --> 00:55:00,552
Lauren Salzman to the stand.
1011
00:55:03,972 --> 00:55:05,390
Good morning,
Ms. Salzman.
1012
00:55:06,182 --> 00:55:07,308
Good morning.
1013
00:55:08,601 --> 00:55:10,854
How long were you
a part of NXIVM?
1014
00:55:13,940 --> 00:55:15,692
Almost 20 years.
1015
00:55:15,692 --> 00:55:18,528
Who first approached you
about DOS?
1016
00:55:18,528 --> 00:55:20,739
Keith first approached me.
1017
00:55:20,739 --> 00:55:23,700
He said that he wanted
to make our relationship closer.
1018
00:55:23,700 --> 00:55:25,994
Let me into your space.
1019
00:55:25,994 --> 00:55:27,704
And he asked me
what I was willing to do
1020
00:55:27,704 --> 00:55:30,749
for my growth
and for my commitment to him.
1021
00:55:31,958 --> 00:55:33,126
What did you say?
1022
00:55:35,086 --> 00:55:36,171
Anything.
1023
00:55:38,506 --> 00:55:39,632
Anything.
1024
00:55:39,632 --> 00:55:42,802
♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪
1025
00:55:46,181 --> 00:55:50,852
♪ ("PIANO IN THE SKY"
BY WINONA OAK PLAYING) ♪
1026
00:55:53,354 --> 00:55:58,026
♪ There's a piano in the sky ♪
1027
00:55:58,026 --> 00:56:02,030
♪ I hear it playing
All the time ♪
1028
00:56:03,531 --> 00:56:07,243
♪ There's a rope
I'm holding tight ♪
1029
00:56:08,328 --> 00:56:12,791
♪ I dream of falling
Every night ♪
1030
00:56:12,791 --> 00:56:16,628
♪ I'm tired of thinking
That I don't deserve you ♪
1031
00:56:18,004 --> 00:56:22,801
♪ I'm dreading the day
When you let me go ♪
1032
00:56:22,801 --> 00:56:27,138
♪ So take all this love
From me ♪
1033
00:56:27,138 --> 00:56:32,519
♪ I don't want to feel anymore ♪
1034
00:56:32,519 --> 00:56:37,148
♪ Just take this heart of me ♪
1035
00:56:37,148 --> 00:56:39,818
♪ You had every part of me ♪
1036
00:56:39,818 --> 00:56:43,947
♪ I'll be fine, I promise ♪
1037
00:56:43,947 --> 00:56:50,286
♪ Don't say, don't say
Don't say, don't say ♪
1038
00:56:50,286 --> 00:56:54,249
♪ There's a way
To live without me, baby ♪
1039
00:56:54,249 --> 00:56:59,796
♪ Too late, too late
It's all too late ♪
1040
00:56:59,796 --> 00:57:05,009
♪ So I'll stay till we break ♪
1041
00:57:05,009 --> 00:57:08,930
♪ ("PIANO IN THE SKY"
CONCLUDES) ♪