KEITH RANIERE: You should assume that everything
I'm gonna tell you is secret for now.
And I want you guys to come up with a plan
of how to implement this stuff.
Just imagine someone that you really, really care for,
your best friend or a child or whatever, become delusional
and start hurting people or whatever.
What is the procedure you would use with them?
Exile.
We're not out to punish them.
We are out to rehabilitate them
or stop them from damaging others
because of their illness.
So you exile them to some place
in the hopes that they will come around.
Maybe you exile them for an amount of time
or forever.
And it's a type of shunning.
It's the, uh, ultimate shunning so to speak.
♪ ("DREAM STATE" FT. BONNIE PIESSE BY SON LUX PLAYING) ♪
♪ Days we were young ♪
♪ We took photographs of everything we could see ♪
♪ We had to run from it ♪
♪ Priest and prophetess We were ♪
♪ Nothing we would defy ♪
♪ Oh! Invisible skin ♪
♪ Where is the world within? ♪
♪ Invincible skin It's how we all begin ♪
♪ ("DREAM STATE" CONCLUDES) ♪
♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
(SIREN WAILING DISTANTLY)
REPORTER 1: An update as the NXIVM trial
continues in federal court.
The woman allegedly kept confined to a room
is expected to be on the stand today.
REPORTER 2: (IN SPANISH)
REPORTER 3: This witness says that she and her family
traveled to the United States
specifically to take NXIVM courses.
But she says, instead of being taught
self-improvement, she was broken.
(GAVEL BANGING)
(DOOR OPENS, CLOSES)
MOIRA PENZA: When I think about the crimes
that were being committed, some of the most serious
related to the imprisonment of Daniela.
I thought it would also be very impactful
to the jury as they learned about this family
and the way it was systematically destroyed.
-MOIRA: Good morning, Daniela. -DANIELA: Good morning.
How do you describe your childhood?
DANIELA: My childhood was idyllic.
We grew up in a relatively abundant financial setting.
My family was like the center of gravity.
I felt safe.
I had a very good relationship with my parents.
And my elder sister, Marianna, was my best friend.
They used to joke about our family,
saying that we were like the Flanders
in The Simpsons because we got along so well.
It was a pretty wonderful way to grow up.
MOIRA: Can you provide the first names of the members
of your immediate family?
DANIELA: My father is Hector. My mother, Adriana.
My elder sister, Marianna.
My little brother, Adrian. And my baby sister, Camila.
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
NANCY SALZMAN: I remember that the parents
took the training in Mexico and then came to Albany.
Keith had a very private relationship with the parents.
And they were very close.
KEITH: No, no, no.
NANCY: They saw Keith as a mentor, a teacher, a guru
who you put ultimate faith in
and trust more than you trust yourself.
(ADRIANA LAUGHS)
-This... -(ADRIANA LAUGHS)
In Mexico, a lot of powerful families
were connected to NXIVM
and Daniela's mother and father were convinced
that Keith Raniere and the NXIVM community
were good.
And that they would be good for their children.
MOIRA: Daniela, when did you first become involved in NXIVM?
DANIELA: In 2002,
during my second semester of high school.
At that time, I was preparing to go
to an elite school in Switzerland.
I was being granted the only scholarship
that they gave out that year.
As a parting gift before I went to school,
my parents enrolled me into a 16-Day Intensive.
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
NANCY: Hector and Adriana brought Dani and Marianna.
-KEITH: Bye. -(KISSING)
NANCY: And then, they went back to Mexico.
ADRIANA: Aw, Keith.
-Soon? -Yeah.
-Pronto. Soon. -Yeah.
NANCY: But Dani and Marianna were left behind.
(SMOOCHES)
-Have fun. Bye. (LAUGHS) -(ADRIANA LAUGHS)
NANCY: Pam and Keith must have appeared
to be a couple to them.
We all believed Pam was like a saint.
She gave Keith credibility.
BARBARA BOUCHEY: So here they are...
these young teenage girls.
I remember the day that their parents dropped them off
on NXIVM's door stoop.
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
BARBARA: Suddenly Marianna is hooked at the hip with Pam.
She's getting a little bit out of hand.
(LAUGHS) What's gonna happen when your mommy comes?
You've changed mamas.
BARBARA: Pam was like, "Well, you know,
she's my little sister. I'm taking her under my wing."
I'm like, "Okay."
(LAUGHS)
BARBARA: It was puzzling.
Are you guys coming back to Flintlock?
NANCY: And then the next thing I knew,
Dani started to hang out with Keith.
♪ (ROCK SONG PLAYING) ♪
This is more of a dissonant version.
First cymbals.
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
NANCY: Dani and Marianna
and Pam and Keith had their special relationship.
They were like a family.
Everybody who had a close relationship with Keith
was jealous of at least one of the daughters.
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
NANCY: Because they saw that there was like
this really special relationship with that family.
-(INDISTINCT CHATTER) -(CHEERS)
MARIANNA: Very subtle. Very subtle.
I'll take a bite.
-There's an interesting problem. -DANIELA: Mm-hmm.
KEITH: Think about this, Dani.
If there's someone in the woods and they know
that they are exactly one mile from the edge of the woods,
they just don't know what direction.
What is the optimal path for them to travel...
to be able to get out of the woods?
And in particular,
what is the longest distance they will have to travel
before they ultimately find their way out of the woods?
KEITH: Right.
DANIELA: I remember in the early days,
Keith sounding perfectly.
He gave me a brain teaser
and I gave him the answer right away.
He seemed very pleased.
He said, "Don't go to school, I will teach you."
MOIRA: And how old were you at that point?
DANIELA: I was 16.
She was so brilliant. She's so curious.
She's so engaged. She has so much potential.
She had this scholarship to study in Switzerland.
But ultimately, she doesn't go.
KEITH: Uh-uh.
I have...
NANCY: He told me that Dani was brilliant.
Like a Mega Society brilliant.
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
NANCY: And so what Keith wanted her to do
was follow him around with a video camera.
KEITH: Dani, the camera woman.
NANCY: He wanted his life documented
because future generations would want access to it.
The best movie...
is where the audience walks away
thinking they know the character.
And that'd be a valuable thing
'cause if people came to know how I worked in the world,
well, you know, a lot of the rumors wouldn't be true.
They don't seem to catch any of my humanity or my humor,
but they don't seem to catch any of my abilities, either.
What do you think, Dani?
But, like, you don't have me jumping over... someone.
(DANIELA LAUGHS)
(GRUNTS)
How did I look going over people?
He wanted everything videoed.
(LAUGHS)
DANIELA: I like the way you opened that cereal, Keith.
KEITH: Yeah?
DANIELA: The rest of the world will appreciate it as well.
DANIELA: No. No, never.
Keith was always saying, "If anybody ever scrutinizes us,
they'll see the videos and they'll know
we didn't do anything wrong."
Be good if you had several cameras.
-You know what I mean? -DANIELA: Mm-hmm.
MARK VICENTE: Is that any good?
-Is that one? -MARK: Have you read that one?
No, I haven't read it. I know about that particular book.
Some of these books I know about and some of them I've read.
MARK: Daniela was working for Raniere.
So basically, he would have her read
incredibly complex books on science
and give him abridged versions of what the books were about.
And she was pretty smart, so she could do it.
MOIRA: Did you ever get paid for the book reports?
DANIELA: No. Because I was there on a visitor's visa.
They couldn't figure out how to pay me.
I had no structure, no job, and no legal way to make money.
MOIRA: Did there come a time when you took money
from the office?
DANIELA: Yes. About a year into my time at NXIVM,
I stole six thousand dollars from the admin office.
It was a stupid, impulsive decision
and I felt terrible about it.
So I put the money back right away,
but the feeling of guilt consumed me.
Daniela makes the mistake of confessing this
to Keith Raniere. Keith Raniere tells her,
"Okay, I'm going to have to tell Nancy Salzman."
NANCY: Most of my beliefs about people in the organization
were colored by the things Keith told me.
And so he caused me not to like her.
Or, you know, to have feelings about her, like she was sneaky.
And then he told me other things where she was problematic.
MOIRA: How did your relationship with the defendant change?
DANIELA: At the time,
it felt like everyone thought I was bad.
And he didn't adopt that stance.
He kept being my friend.
(CROWD APPLAUDING)
DANIELA: I became closer to him.
I remember one day,
we were in the room next to Prefect's office.
The door was closed.
I was telling him how my parents were getting a divorce.
And then, in the middle of sharing this,
he moved closer and kissed me.
MOIRA: Did the defendant say anything?
DANIELA: He asked me if I liked that he had done that.
MOIRA: What did you say?
DANIELA: I said, "Yes."
But, I mean, the truth is, I had never been kissed
or had any type of sexual contact.
When I got home, I received a phone call from Keith.
He said, "I think it's better
if you don't tell anybody about our kiss.
I think that should stay between us."
And I complied.
But I look back,
I think I could have changed the course of history
if I had told my mother.
I mean, I don't think she would have been
very happy to hear that a 40-year-old man
had kissed her 17-year-old daughter.
Vanguard or not.
MOIRA: After that night,
did the nature of the conversations progress?
DANIELA: Yes. They escalated in a sexual way.
One night, there was, like, open flirting going on.
(GRUNTS)
But I was extremely shy,
so it took a lot of prodding on his part
to really move the conversation forward in that way.
But he'd also say,
"We can't have sex because you're too young."
And so, he'd basically tell me about his sex life.
MOIRA: So then, was your 18th birthday
something that was being built up to?
DANIELA: Yes. In fact,
there was a particular conversation that happened
maybe a month or so before.
We were at volleyball.
He said, "Your birthday is coming up.
What do you want for your birthday?"
And in my mind,
the clear answer was, "I want sex."
But I was still too shy to say that.
So he said, "Well, if you're too shy to say it,
why don't you just write it on the palm of my hand?"
So with my hand I spelled out S-E-X.
I remember feeling very insecure.
He said, "Is there something that you're insecure about?"
I told him I was insecure about my body. That I felt fat.
And he said I needed to lose weight.
That when a woman was overweight,
it interrupted the energy.
So he couldn't share his sexual energy
with somebody like that.
I felt rejected.
But then, he called me a few days later
and he said it was time.
He told me to meet him at the office
of an old business he had.
(HEARTBEAT)
MOIRA: What happened when you got there?
DANIELA: He led me to this room that had a dim light,
so I couldn't see very well. There were stacks of boxes
and on the floor, there was an old dirty mattress
that had, like, raggy, used sheets on it.
-(VIDEO CAMERA BEEPS) -(HEARTBEAT)
DANIELA: He asked me to take my clothes off
and lay down, so I did.
Then, he too started doing oral sex on me.
(HEARTBEAT SPEEDS UP)
DANIELA: Eventually, he took off his clothes
and he climbed on top of me
for a little while and gave me a long hug.
And then, he just got up, got dressed,
and I drove him home.
(CAR ENGINE STARTING)
-(EMILY SAUL GROANS, SIGHS) -(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
EMILY: Daniela, she was young
and with a man who was in his forties.
Raniere is someone that she adores.
Possibly worships.
Like the power dynamic is so messed up.
You already have someone who is incredibly impressionable
and then she's humiliated for making that request
for sex for her 18th birthday.
Which she is confused about wanting
and can't consult anyone about
because she is young and she is alone in Albany
with all of these--
Where no one's supervising Raniere,
where there are no ethical checks on Raniere.
These are the first sexual encounters.
This is the foundation upon which she, like,
understands sex
and sex as it relates to relationships.
MOIRA: After you began having sex with the defendant,
what changed?
DANIELA: My entire life changed.
I mean, I had full access to Keith
and I became part of the inner circle.
I was literally spending
all my waking moments in Flintlock.
(CHUCKLES)
MOIRA: Flintlock was a place
that was almost exclusively accessed
by members of the inner circle. And specifically, mostly people
who were in a sexual relationship
with Keith Raniere or had been in the past.
(DANIELA GIGGLES)
KEITH: Now it's f-- DANIELA:
(DANIELA CHUCKLES)
DANIELA: Every time we were alone,
my role was to give him oral sex.
(SIREN WAILING DISTANTLY)
My mind is racing as I am listening to this,
because, you know, I'm having flashbacks of memories
in Flintlock and around and--
You know, I've learned about three women just this week
that Keith had sexual relationships with
during the time I was there, that I didn't know about.
One of them was Lauren,
and now I just learned about Daniela.
The jurors have to understand
this is a very clever, masterful,
artful manipulation of people, and it's a chess game
and he's been playing it for years.
And to him, we're just pawns on that chess board.
So Daniela had a value he wanted to extract.
(CLEARS THROAT) And the way to extract that
is by having an intimate sexual connection.
What he wanted is her mind.
MOIRA: Did you ever talk with the defendant
-about illegal activities? -DANIELA: Yes.
There was a time when Keith wanted to gain access
to a certain email account.
Keith said, "Do you think you could do it?"
So I took it as a challenge.
MOIRA: Was the defendant trying to gather information
-about other people? -DANIELA: Yes.
There was a long list of people.
MOIRA: Who stands out?
DANIELA: Edgar Bronfman. Claire Bronfman's father.
MOIRA: What Keith Raniere wanted was to see
what connections there were between Edgar Bronfman
and efforts to take down the organization.
We were a little tiny three-million-dollar business
and we ended up on the cover of Forbes.
"You don't end up on the cover of Forbes
as a three-million-dollar company,
unless somebody puts you there," is what Keith said.
He wanted to know who paid for that article
'cause he believed that that article was paid for
and we needed to get to the bottom of it.
And I think that's probably why he did the computer hacking.
DANIELA: I started researching
and discussing my ideas with Keith.
I said, "Isn't this wrong?
NXIVM is supposed to teach ethics
but this is illegal, this is unethical.
Why are we breaking the rules?"
And Keith said, "Look,
if we're trying to build a better world,
we have to do unethical things ethically."
I think he found a way to...
find the personality of each of us.
And know how to...
manipulate us.
He used people to get what he wanted.
These were good people...
really good people with amazing values,
led to believe...
that they were doing something good.
MOIRA: Did there come a time when you had difficulty
renewing your visa?
DANIELA: Yes.
My visa was withdrawn in late 2004
and I was sent back to Mexico.
I was crushed because I couldn't go back
for at least a year.
That's when Keith said he came up
with a plan to bring me back.
MOIRA: Daniela ends up flying to Canada
and being driven by members of the enterprise
back to Clifton Park, New York.
Now, she's in the United States illegally.
DANIELA: When I got back,
there was a Christmas Eve get-together.
-(INDISTINCT CHATTER) -Merry Christmas.
DANIELA: And everyone, including Keith,
were partaking in the fun.
Discussing the exploits of this triumphant story
of how we'd successfully crossed the border.
But later that night, Keith, Marianna, and I
were just hanging out in Flintlock.
And then, Keith wanted to take a nap
with the both of us.
He brought us upstairs and we laid down.
(BED CREAKING)
DANIELA: All of a sudden,
he's like, kissing her and touching me.
It felt dirty. It was wrong.
(HEARTBEAT)
So I start crying, then Marianna starts crying.
Like, really messed up crying, and eventually, he stopped.
MOIRA: Did you ever discuss that incident
with the defendant?
DANIELA: No. I just pretended it never happened
and he did exactly the same.
(BIRDS CHIRPING)
NANCY: I had a conversation with my daughter recently
who explained to me that the only time
that Keith Raniere ever enjoyed any kind of sexual relationship
was when there was something a little bit depraved about it.
And I said, "What do you mean?" And she-- he said, like--
she said to me, like, "When you went away on vacation,
he used to love to have sex all over your house.
And you wouldn't know."
He would love that sort of thing.
Or it had to be a threesome,
or it had to be some kind of off thing.
-Get it. Dani. Dani. -(CROWD LAUGHS)
-It's just not okay. -DANIELA: It's better with--
-You guys don't like it? -It's okay.
-It's better than putting it-- -DANIELA: A scrunchie!
It's so pretty, it's distracting to your team.
-That's the problem. -Well, that's not okay.
If we start blowing points over it...
-DANIELA: Yeah, true. -...then that's a problem.
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
NANCY: I remember
all of a sudden, Marianna and Daniela
were talking about bringing their sister
and their brother, Adrian and Camila,
to Albany as well.
Apparently, Keith thought it would be a good idea
for the whole family to be together here.
DANIELA: When they first arrived,
they were spending all their time
with us and Keith. Almost like a family.
Keith's plan for Cami
was that she would clean Nancy's house for money
to attend classes.
But the house they found for her to live in
was far away from where I lived.
So shortly after they arrived, I lost control of them.
NANCY: Keith would give people
what he called "affectionate," um, nicknames.
Camila's nickname was V.C. I never knew what it was.
MOIRA: Did you ever hear the defendant
say anything sexual in front of your sister, Camila?
DANIELA: Yes. He would make sexual jokes.
And he used to tease her about her innocent demeanor.
He even nicknamed her "Virgin Camila."
VERO JASPEADO: I met Cami since I arrived.
I met the entire family.
Yeah, with Cami I-- I felt proud that she was so young.
I almost felt like, "Oh, my God, I wish I would have had that.
Your entire family committed
to personal growth, to community,
to loving each other."
And...
I had no idea, no clue...
by then that she was going through such hard times.
NANCY: When Camila first came, she was very sweet.
She was everybody's favorite.
As time went on...
she became more and more withdrawn
and it became harder and harder to communicate with her.
And I would ask Keith questions from time to time about Camila.
How come nobody knows where she lives?
And he said to me, "Well, you know,
her mother was very invasive
and she had no privacy
and privacy is very important to her
and so she doesn't want anyone to know where she lives."
MOIRA: Looking back now,
do you have any thoughts on where Camila was placed?
DANIELA: I think it was very manipulative.
She was isolated for easy access.
MOIRA: Did you come to learn that the defendant
was having sex with your sister Camila?
DANIELA: Yes. Some time around the fall of 2006,
I asked Keith if he was having sex with Cami.
MOIRA: How did the defendant respond?
DANIELA: He asked me if I minded.
Then, he told me that some girls were more
emotionally mature than others.
I also remember, on top of being concerned
about him having a relationship with her,
I was also kind of jealous.
He made me wait until after my 18th birthday,
and he's having sex with my sister now.
It's all kind of messed up that I felt that way,
and I deeply regret that I didn't at that moment
get my sister out of there. But that's how it happened.
MOIRA: Keith Raniere's sexual relationship with Camila
started when he was already having sex
with both of her sisters.
I think for Daniela,
recounting the aspects of her family's involvement
was incredibly painful
because they really were so close-knit
until Keith Raniere came into their lives.
MOIRA: Daniela, did there come a time
when you became pregnant?
DANIELA: Yes. In late 2006. I was terrified.
MOIRA: What were you terrified of?
DANIELA: Having a baby with Keith.
I mean, I liked Keith. In fact, I idolized him.
But he was with a lot of other women,
including my sisters.
Plus, I was very young and I didn't feel ready.
MOIRA: Did you tell anyone?
DANIELA: I told Keith.
His response was very surprising to me.
He said, "It's not the end of the world."
Then, he proceeded to tell me about other women
who had had abortions in an effort to make it normal.
MOIRA: Who did he mention?
DANIELA: Pam and my sister, Marianna.
MOIRA: Did he talk through any logistics with you?
DANIELA: Yes.
He said that he was going to pay for it
and that Pam was going to take me to the doctor
and stay with me throughout the entire process.
MOIRA: Did you have any conversations with Pam?
DANIELA: She said when they ask about the father of the child,
under no circumstances I was to name Keith.
MOIRA: Once the abortion had happened,
did you talk to the defendant about it?
DANIELA: Yes.
A few days after we went on a walk,
and Keith told me that this was a great opportunity
for me to lose weight and get fit.
He said, in fact, that there were Olympic athletes
that get pregnant on purpose just to have an abortion
as part of their training.
MOIRA: How did you feel when the defendant
said that to you?
DANIELA: Shocked.
MARC AGNIFILO: You know, very tough. Tough to hear.
I mean, I don't think Keith committed a crime,
but I do think that-- that-- the-- the jury
is going to seriously consider that evidence
when deciding whether
he is showing good or bad intention.
I mean, so far,
there's a lot of evidence of questionable behavior,
bad judgment, um, you know, things like that.
But I don't know that
the government's really made out the charges.
Uh, my fear is that it's not gonna matter.
You know, that the jury's gonna have a hard time
acquitting Keith just because of, you know,
kind of the-- the parade of bad facts and bad evidence,
not necessarily indicative of guilt
but just indicative of, you know,
a-- a-- a radically different lifestyle
that, uh, an average juror really doesn't appreciate.
Can't convict him because people came here
and said that they felt pain. That's-- That's not a crime.
MOIRA: Now, Daniela, at some point
you had a falling-out with the defendant, correct?
DANIELA: Yes, in 2006.
I started hanging out with a fellow student at DSP.
One night, after a community event,
I think the slang word is, we "made out."
And it felt real. It felt true. It felt nice.
MOIRA: Did you tell anybody about this feeling
-that you experienced? -DANIELA: Yes. I told Keith.
MOIRA: Why did you tell the defendant?
DANIELA: I guess, in all my innocence,
I thought he was my best friend.
I had nobody else to tell,
and it never crossed my mind to hide it.
MOIRA: And how did the defendant react?
DANIELA: Keith was angry.
I had never seen him angry before,
and it was dramatic.
There was no reasoning with him. It was this huge, huge fight.
He said I wasn't pure anymore, that I had destroyed everything,
and that this was an ethical breach for me.
(FOOTSTEPS ECHOING)
DANIELA: He locked himself up in the bathroom.
I remember Karen asked me to leave
and I was like, "No. I wanna figure this out.
This makes no sense to me."
He stayed in the bathroom for a little while
and then he went upstairs. So I chased him into Pam's room.
He grabbed me by the arm and threw me over
onto a mattress on the floor and ran out.
And that was the end of the argument.
My life changed completely overnight.
Just like sex with Keith meant access,
not being with Keith meant loss of access and isolation.
I couldn't be anywhere Keith was.
Which meant I couldn't go to volleyball
or any community events whatsoever.
It was, like, an immediate shunning.
(BIRDS CHIRPING)
KAREN UNTERREINER: Dani was painted
as being awful, nasty, prideful.
He never told me what the problem really was.
What they were fighting over, I wasn't allowed to know,
but I was asked to work with her.
He paints this as Daniela's only salvation.
That she's so prideful, if we don't break it,
her life is going to be miserable.
So I coached Daniela and tried to help her
through whatever so-called "pride issues" she had.
It was a problem that was unfixable
'cause there was no problem.
She was interested in another guy.
At one point,
I couldn't handle it anymore, working with Dani.
And then he asked Lauren to take over.
That's also when he instituted
the whole idea of the room. (SIGHS)
MOIRA: So was there an additional escalation
in your punishment?
DANIELA: Yes.
They said, "You can go into this room
with no possibility of indulgences."
I remember asking how long I need to stay,
and they said, "As long as it takes
to heal your ethical breach."
By that point, Keith had stopped talking to me
and the community had shunned me.
They had taken all my property, everything I owned,
including my papers.
So it was truly impossible for me to leave.
I had no choice.
I went into the room March 9th, 2010.
And I was there for over two years.
The room was completely empty.
There was a one-and-a-half-inch foam mattress on the floor
and the window had been blocked out
so I couldn't look outside.
They gave me some paper and pen
because I was supposed to write to Keith every day.
I'd write to Keith saying,
"I love you. I'm so sorry I did this to you."
I tried to make the most sincere apology possible
because that was the only way out.
(PENCIL SCRATCHING)
But none of it worked.
I had no books...
nothing to read...
nothing to listen to...
and nothing to grab onto.
-(CLOCK TICKING) -(DISTANT VOICES ECHOING)
At times, I would lay on the ground
and listen through the vent on the floor,
or with my ear to the crack underneath the door,
trying to catch any sounds I could.
(PENCIL SCRATCHING)
DANIELA: I had no connection to anything whatsoever.
When Lauren would come, I hated her...
but she was the only human that I was seeing,
so I was happy to see her.
Every conversation with Lauren, it was all about Keith.
Because Keith, through my letters,
was going to know when I was ready
to leave the room.
I wasn't going to know.
My parents weren't. It was Keith.
Keith was the one who was going to determine
when I had healed my ethical breach.
KAREN: Marianna was mostly living
with us at that point.
But Camila was there and her brother was there.
They're the ones that were feeding her.
But most of the community didn't understand
why Dani wasn't around anymore.
I don't think many people knew.
-(INDISTINCT CHATTER) -(SMOOCHES)
I just wanted to illustrate the point, I go nowhere
without my Guru.
(CROWD LAUGHS, INDISTINCT CHATTER)
KAREN: There was a training right before she went in the room.
It was all a set up for her parents
to buy into that thing.
KEITH: Community at first is something we have to work at.
Work at ourselves to be able to appreciate contributing
and what we get back so much
that we would not have it any other way.
And when you look around, you know, this community,
there are things that all of you won't like.
There might be someone in the community
that you think is going and destroying everything.
And you know something, maybe they don't even realize it.
You have to be willing to go and give them the feedback.
That's part of being in a community.
By your being able to do
the most distasteful of activities,
you're gonna be the agent of change.
NANCY: The way that Keith got Dani into the room
was by enrolling her whole family
in the problem of Dani.
ADRIANA: Exactly.
KEITH:
-ADRIANA: Mm-hmm? -KEITH:
It's hard for me to explain exactly
the power that Keith Raniere was able to have
over Daniela's family.
But it's this real, like, this absolute trust in him.
Daniela is a very family-oriented person
and the desperation
to maintain those relationships with her family is in large part
what kept her committed to staying in that room.
-(KNOCKING AT DOOR) -DANIELA: Meals were brought
to me by someone in my family.
They would knock on the door
and leave the plate on the floor outside the bedroom,
so I would never see anyone.
Honestly, I broke pretty quickly.
It's hard to describe my emotional state.
But I'd get really crazy and really dark.
After one of those episodes,
I would be completely numb for days.
It felt like my breach destroyed everything,
and I had to fix it.
So I started with my family.
I drafted a newsletter that I would send
to every member of my family.
But that was shut down as a huge indulgence.
At the time, my hair hung below my waist
because Keith liked long hair,
but someone left scissors in the bathroom
and I cut it off.
Lauren came with the big news that cutting my hair
was a new, huge ethical breach.
She said, "Now you're going to have to stay in this room
until your hair grows back to where it was."
I remember thinking, "My God! It's gonna be years."
-(SLOW HEARTBEAT) -♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
DANIELA: Around that time,
I started accumulating cleaning supplies,
and I thought, "Soon as I have enough,
I'll just drink it and everything will be over."
(HEARTBEAT)
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
(BIRD CHIRPING DISTANTLY)
(CHIRPING)
DANIELA: Then, I looked out the window
and I saw this cardinal.
(CHIRPING)
DANIELA: I don't know what it was about that bird...
but at that moment, I remember thinking...
"I want to live."
(CHIRPING)
DANIELA: All of a sudden, there was this sense of freedom.
I thought, "Fuck everyone.
I give up. I can't do this anymore.
Go fuck yourselves. I'm going to live."
I walked out of the room, down the stairs,
and out the front door.
I was done.
(RAIN PATTERING)
Hard day.
I think I didn't expect it to be this emotionally grueling.
I definitely got to a point...
not that long ago, where I kind of
considered myself to be fairly dead inside
because nothing, like I had no reaction to so--
Like I had no reaction basically to anything,
to, like, any testimony. (SNIFFLES)
And it still stands for a lot of things.
Like, I can hear pretty gruesome testimony
about a lot of different things and it doesn't f--
It doesn't, like, emotionally affect me,
but I have noticed that the tra--
like, that this trial specifically...
(CLICKS TONGUE) ...um, like, sticks with me
and bothers me in ways...
that others haven't.
Whatever the prosecution is doing
to paint Raniere in a terrible light
has been so effective on me that it's like,
I think it's because I feel, like, a personal loathing
and it's-- it's sticking. It's all sticking.
I mean, I wasn't locked in a room for two years,
but I heard about someone's experience of that today
and, like, I'm gonna continue to think about that
for a long time and, like,
I'm gonna carry that testimony with me for a long time and I...
That's...
that's what it means to bear witness
to something like this, is that you take
a little bit of that with you.
(INHALES)
♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
MARC: Certainly, her story on direct
was a very dramatic story
of her being locked in the room against her will,
and-- and, uh, you know, kind of put upon
in all these different ways
and was the recipient of attention
that she didn't want,
and the question is whether that's whole story,
whether that story is even valid.
Maybe the room was overkill,
maybe it was too much pressure.
You know, maybe it's appropriate given the circumstances.
Maybe it's important that her father who seems to be
a very capable, intelligent, successful man
was, um, you know, on board with this.
You know, maybe that's significant.
I mean, this is his daughter and if he's on board with this,
you have to ask yourself, "Why?"
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
MARC: And all the facts aren't out yet
and we still have a ways to go.
We'll see what the cross has to add.
Good afternoon, Daniela.
DANIELA: Good afternoon.
MARC: I want to ask you a few questions about your father.
He wanted you to do well
-in the world, right? -DANIELA: Yes.
MARC: And did you discuss with your father the fact
that he wanted you to stay in a room in your family's house
until you did certain things?
DANIELA: No. That--
that was not at all the proposal.
Nor did I have a discussion with just my father.
It was my father, my mother, Lauren Salzman, and Karen.
MARC: Did they say that you could do certain things
and leave the room?
DANIELA: No. I wasn't given an actual plan
to go outside the room.
MARC: And before you went in the room,
you started to write to Keith, correct?
DANIELA: I had been writing
to Keith for years, as instructed.
MARC: And what you write here is,
"From my love to you
and what is unfinished between us,
I gather the strength to go against my own momentum
and be honest with myself."
DANIELA: This is a very complex situation.
I'm getting drilled from my parents and Karen
about how I should be doing,
what I have done, and how bad I am.
I'm already very isolated from everyone,
I'm very confused, I'm very angry,
I'm pretty broken,
and there's a tightly controlled environment
around me.
MARC: Well, at some point, you decided
you wanted to leave the room, correct?
DANIELA: Yes.
MARC: Were you locked in the room?
DANIELA: No.
MARC: So you could open the door
and just walk out of the room whenever you wanted, right?
DANIELA: No. That is not true.
(DOOR SLAMS)
MARC: Were you threatened
with something happening to you if you left?
DANIELA: I had no money, no papers, and I was threatened
with both being sent back to Mexico
and also threatened with being completely cut off
from everyone I knew.
MARC: And how old were you when you went in the room?
DANIELA: I believe I was 24.
MARC: So you could have left, right?
You were 24 years old,
and no one was forcing you to stay, correct?
DANIELA: No.
That is not an accurate statement.
MARC: Your Honor, I have nothing else.
MOIRA: The crimes that we charged
don't require there to be
any sort of physical imprisonment.
Psychological coercion
doesn't depend on a physically locked door.
There were all of these fences that were keeping her in.
Someone on the outside doesn't understand
the years and years of manipulation
we all experienced.
You've got all these ideas that Keith implanted
in your head...
leading you to make the decision he wants you to make.
The reason why Dani was in the room
was because she didn't make the decisions
Keith wanted her to make.
♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
NANCY: It feels like he went after the whole family,
which is similar to what he did to my family.
But the parents weren't here.
I can't tell you how sad I feel for Dani
and what she went through.
Even Marianna.
I feel-- I feel horrible for all of them.
But-- but I feel really sad for Camila
because that should never have happened.
She is probably one of the most damaged people
by Keith Raniere.
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
REPORTER: The prosecution in the trial of NXIVM leader
Keith Raniere produced 240 pages of text messages
between one victim called Camila and Raniere.
NANCY: Going into this, I thought Keith was innocent.
But when I got to see the text thread
between Camila and Keith...
that was pretty much what flipped me totally
to believe that Keith...
had done some very bad things.
I remember calling my attorney
and telling him that I was wrong.
-(KEYS CLACKING) -(CELLPHONE CHIMES)
NANCY: These texts are the beginning of DOS.
-(CELLPHONE CHIMES) -(KEYS CLACKING)
(CELLPHONE CHIMES)
♪ ("REGRET" BY BONNIE PIESSE PLAYING) ♪
♪ You played with my mind ♪
♪ You shattered my soul ♪
♪ It shall not be ♪
♪ How can I forget ♪
♪ A life of regret ♪
♪ You destroyed me ♪
♪ I was ♪
♪ Dying for you ♪
♪ And it felt like home ♪
♪ I fell to my knees ♪
♪ Lost in a dream ♪
♪ I was spellbound ♪
♪ You were ♪
♪ A deadly addiction ♪
♪ And I was ♪
♪ Dying for you ♪
♪ And it felt like ♪
♪ Home ♪
♪ (SONG CONCLUDES) ♪