1 00:00:15,849 --> 00:00:17,434 KEITH RANIERE: You should assume that everything 2 00:00:17,517 --> 00:00:20,228 I'm gonna tell you is secret for now. 3 00:00:20,311 --> 00:00:23,690 And I want you guys to come up with a plan 4 00:00:23,773 --> 00:00:26,526 of how to implement this stuff. 5 00:00:26,609 --> 00:00:30,488 Just imagine someone that you really, really care for, 6 00:00:30,572 --> 00:00:35,410 your best friend or a child or whatever, become delusional 7 00:00:35,493 --> 00:00:37,245 and start hurting people or whatever. 8 00:00:37,328 --> 00:00:41,541 What is the procedure you would use with them? 9 00:00:43,752 --> 00:00:44,794 Exile. 10 00:00:46,045 --> 00:00:48,173 We're not out to punish them. 11 00:00:50,175 --> 00:00:51,718 We are out to rehabilitate them 12 00:00:51,801 --> 00:00:54,012 or stop them from damaging others 13 00:00:54,095 --> 00:00:55,221 because of their illness. 14 00:00:56,890 --> 00:00:59,517 So you exile them to some place 15 00:00:59,601 --> 00:01:01,811 in the hopes that they will come around. 16 00:01:03,104 --> 00:01:04,898 Maybe you exile them for an amount of time 17 00:01:04,981 --> 00:01:06,232 or forever. 18 00:01:06,316 --> 00:01:08,193 And it's a type of shunning. 19 00:01:08,276 --> 00:01:11,029 It's the, uh, ultimate shunning so to speak. 20 00:01:14,866 --> 00:01:19,204 ♪ ("DREAM STATE" FT. BONNIE PIESSE BY SON LUX PLAYING) ♪ 21 00:01:20,622 --> 00:01:22,665 ♪ Days we were young ♪ 22 00:01:22,749 --> 00:01:28,630 ♪ We took photographs of everything we could see ♪ 23 00:01:28,713 --> 00:01:32,091 ♪ We had to run from it ♪ 24 00:01:32,175 --> 00:01:35,011 ♪ Priest and prophetess We were ♪ 25 00:01:35,094 --> 00:01:38,973 ♪ Nothing we would defy ♪ 26 00:01:40,016 --> 00:01:44,062 ♪ Oh! Invisible skin ♪ 27 00:01:44,145 --> 00:01:47,649 ♪ Where is the world within? ♪ 28 00:01:47,732 --> 00:01:52,862 ♪ Invincible skin It's how we all begin ♪ 29 00:01:57,450 --> 00:01:58,952 ♪ ("DREAM STATE" CONCLUDES) ♪ 30 00:01:59,035 --> 00:02:00,912 ♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 31 00:02:03,414 --> 00:02:04,916 (SIREN WAILING DISTANTLY) 32 00:02:09,504 --> 00:02:11,214 REPORTER 1: An update as the NXIVM trial 33 00:02:11,297 --> 00:02:12,882 continues in federal court. 34 00:02:12,966 --> 00:02:15,218 The woman allegedly kept confined to a room 35 00:02:15,301 --> 00:02:17,846 is expected to be on the stand today. 36 00:02:17,929 --> 00:02:20,306 REPORTER 2: (IN SPANISH) 37 00:02:29,274 --> 00:02:31,484 REPORTER 3: This witness says that she and her family 38 00:02:31,568 --> 00:02:33,111 traveled to the United States 39 00:02:33,194 --> 00:02:35,363 specifically to take NXIVM courses. 40 00:02:35,446 --> 00:02:37,240 But she says, instead of being taught 41 00:02:37,323 --> 00:02:40,159 self-improvement, she was broken. 42 00:02:42,620 --> 00:02:44,581 (GAVEL BANGING) 43 00:02:44,664 --> 00:02:47,250 (DOOR OPENS, CLOSES) 44 00:02:49,168 --> 00:02:50,879 MOIRA PENZA: When I think about the crimes 45 00:02:50,962 --> 00:02:54,549 that were being committed, some of the most serious 46 00:02:54,632 --> 00:02:59,012 related to the imprisonment of Daniela. 47 00:02:59,095 --> 00:03:02,891 I thought it would also be very impactful 48 00:03:02,974 --> 00:03:06,060 to the jury as they learned about this family 49 00:03:06,144 --> 00:03:09,188 and the way it was systematically destroyed. 50 00:03:11,399 --> 00:03:14,193 -MOIRA: Good morning, Daniela. -DANIELA: Good morning. 51 00:03:15,653 --> 00:03:17,447 How do you describe your childhood? 52 00:03:18,865 --> 00:03:20,909 DANIELA: My childhood was idyllic. 53 00:03:22,577 --> 00:03:26,039 We grew up in a relatively abundant financial setting. 54 00:03:28,625 --> 00:03:31,628 My family was like the center of gravity. 55 00:03:31,711 --> 00:03:32,754 I felt safe. 56 00:03:34,213 --> 00:03:37,091 I had a very good relationship with my parents. 57 00:03:37,175 --> 00:03:40,219 And my elder sister, Marianna, was my best friend. 58 00:03:42,764 --> 00:03:44,682 They used to joke about our family, 59 00:03:44,766 --> 00:03:46,309 saying that we were like the Flanders 60 00:03:46,392 --> 00:03:49,771 in The Simpsons because we got along so well. 61 00:03:49,854 --> 00:03:52,065 It was a pretty wonderful way to grow up. 62 00:03:53,274 --> 00:03:55,443 MOIRA: Can you provide the first names of the members 63 00:03:55,526 --> 00:03:57,362 of your immediate family? 64 00:03:57,445 --> 00:04:00,365 DANIELA: My father is Hector. My mother, Adriana. 65 00:04:01,157 --> 00:04:02,909 My elder sister, Marianna. 66 00:04:02,992 --> 00:04:06,913 My little brother, Adrian. And my baby sister, Camila. 67 00:04:08,539 --> 00:04:11,334 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 68 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,673 NANCY SALZMAN: I remember that the parents 69 00:04:16,756 --> 00:04:21,260 took the training in Mexico and then came to Albany. 70 00:04:21,344 --> 00:04:25,723 Keith had a very private relationship with the parents. 71 00:04:27,100 --> 00:04:28,851 And they were very close. 72 00:04:30,478 --> 00:04:31,604 KEITH: No, no, no. 73 00:04:31,688 --> 00:04:36,150 NANCY: They saw Keith as a mentor, a teacher, a guru 74 00:04:36,234 --> 00:04:38,111 who you put ultimate faith in 75 00:04:38,194 --> 00:04:40,989 and trust more than you trust yourself. 76 00:04:41,072 --> 00:04:43,241 (ADRIANA LAUGHS) 77 00:04:43,324 --> 00:04:46,828 -This... -(ADRIANA LAUGHS) 78 00:04:46,911 --> 00:04:51,124 In Mexico, a lot of powerful families 79 00:04:51,207 --> 00:04:53,167 were connected to NXIVM 80 00:04:53,251 --> 00:04:58,298 and Daniela's mother and father were convinced 81 00:04:58,381 --> 00:05:01,134 that Keith Raniere and the NXIVM community 82 00:05:01,217 --> 00:05:02,218 were good. 83 00:05:02,301 --> 00:05:05,304 And that they would be good for their children. 84 00:05:07,765 --> 00:05:11,185 MOIRA: Daniela, when did you first become involved in NXIVM? 85 00:05:11,894 --> 00:05:13,354 DANIELA: In 2002, 86 00:05:13,438 --> 00:05:15,606 during my second semester of high school. 87 00:05:16,566 --> 00:05:18,609 At that time, I was preparing to go 88 00:05:18,693 --> 00:05:21,029 to an elite school in Switzerland. 89 00:05:21,112 --> 00:05:23,322 I was being granted the only scholarship 90 00:05:23,406 --> 00:05:25,700 that they gave out that year. 91 00:05:25,783 --> 00:05:28,202 As a parting gift before I went to school, 92 00:05:28,286 --> 00:05:31,205 my parents enrolled me into a 16-Day Intensive. 93 00:05:33,791 --> 00:05:35,251 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 94 00:05:35,334 --> 00:05:38,171 NANCY: Hector and Adriana brought Dani and Marianna. 95 00:05:43,217 --> 00:05:44,302 -KEITH: Bye. -(KISSING) 96 00:05:44,385 --> 00:05:46,679 NANCY: And then, they went back to Mexico. 97 00:05:46,763 --> 00:05:48,181 ADRIANA: Aw, Keith. 98 00:05:52,727 --> 00:05:53,811 -Soon? -Yeah. 99 00:05:53,895 --> 00:05:54,937 -Pronto. Soon. -Yeah. 100 00:05:56,022 --> 00:05:59,400 NANCY: But Dani and Marianna were left behind. 101 00:05:59,484 --> 00:06:01,319 (SMOOCHES) 102 00:06:01,402 --> 00:06:02,820 -Have fun. Bye. (LAUGHS) -(ADRIANA LAUGHS) 103 00:06:02,904 --> 00:06:04,864 NANCY: Pam and Keith must have appeared 104 00:06:04,947 --> 00:06:06,491 to be a couple to them. 105 00:06:09,202 --> 00:06:12,163 We all believed Pam was like a saint. 106 00:06:12,246 --> 00:06:14,373 She gave Keith credibility. 107 00:06:18,711 --> 00:06:20,129 BARBARA BOUCHEY: So here they are... 108 00:06:21,589 --> 00:06:23,299 these young teenage girls. 109 00:06:24,550 --> 00:06:26,844 I remember the day that their parents dropped them off 110 00:06:26,928 --> 00:06:29,097 on NXIVM's door stoop. 111 00:06:29,180 --> 00:06:32,433 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 112 00:06:32,517 --> 00:06:36,979 BARBARA: Suddenly Marianna is hooked at the hip with Pam. 113 00:06:37,063 --> 00:06:39,190 She's getting a little bit out of hand. 114 00:06:40,942 --> 00:06:44,529 (LAUGHS) What's gonna happen when your mommy comes? 115 00:06:45,780 --> 00:06:47,323 You've changed mamas. 116 00:06:49,242 --> 00:06:50,618 BARBARA: Pam was like, "Well, you know, 117 00:06:50,701 --> 00:06:53,287 she's my little sister. I'm taking her under my wing." 118 00:06:53,371 --> 00:06:54,539 I'm like, "Okay." 119 00:06:54,622 --> 00:06:56,082 (LAUGHS) 120 00:06:56,165 --> 00:06:57,667 BARBARA: It was puzzling. 121 00:06:57,750 --> 00:06:59,418 Are you guys coming back to Flintlock? 122 00:06:59,502 --> 00:07:00,962 NANCY: And then the next thing I knew, 123 00:07:01,045 --> 00:07:04,799 Dani started to hang out with Keith. 124 00:07:04,882 --> 00:07:08,886 ♪ (ROCK SONG PLAYING) ♪ 125 00:07:14,183 --> 00:07:18,187 This is more of a dissonant version. 126 00:07:18,271 --> 00:07:19,397 First cymbals. 127 00:07:23,776 --> 00:07:27,155 ♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪ 128 00:07:28,030 --> 00:07:30,908 NANCY: Dani and Marianna 129 00:07:30,992 --> 00:07:34,662 and Pam and Keith had their special relationship. 130 00:07:34,745 --> 00:07:36,956 They were like a family. 131 00:07:39,125 --> 00:07:43,212 Everybody who had a close relationship with Keith 132 00:07:43,296 --> 00:07:45,715 was jealous of at least one of the daughters. 133 00:07:45,798 --> 00:07:48,551 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 134 00:07:48,634 --> 00:07:50,428 NANCY: Because they saw that there was like 135 00:07:50,511 --> 00:07:53,514 this really special relationship with that family. 136 00:07:53,598 --> 00:07:55,016 -(INDISTINCT CHATTER) -(CHEERS) 137 00:07:55,099 --> 00:07:56,475 MARIANNA: Very subtle. Very subtle. 138 00:07:56,559 --> 00:07:57,643 I'll take a bite. 139 00:07:59,228 --> 00:08:01,355 -There's an interesting problem. -DANIELA: Mm-hmm. 140 00:08:01,439 --> 00:08:02,690 KEITH: Think about this, Dani. 141 00:08:02,773 --> 00:08:05,401 If there's someone in the woods and they know 142 00:08:05,484 --> 00:08:11,449 that they are exactly one mile from the edge of the woods, 143 00:08:11,532 --> 00:08:13,534 they just don't know what direction. 144 00:08:13,618 --> 00:08:16,370 What is the optimal path for them to travel... 145 00:08:17,371 --> 00:08:19,123 to be able to get out of the woods? 146 00:08:19,207 --> 00:08:20,374 And in particular, 147 00:08:20,458 --> 00:08:23,044 what is the longest distance they will have to travel 148 00:08:23,127 --> 00:08:25,880 before they ultimately find their way out of the woods? 149 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:29,008 KEITH: Right. 150 00:08:30,343 --> 00:08:32,136 DANIELA: I remember in the early days, 151 00:08:32,220 --> 00:08:34,222 Keith sounding perfectly. 152 00:08:35,473 --> 00:08:37,016 He gave me a brain teaser 153 00:08:37,099 --> 00:08:39,227 and I gave him the answer right away. 154 00:08:39,310 --> 00:08:41,771 He seemed very pleased. 155 00:08:41,854 --> 00:08:45,107 He said, "Don't go to school, I will teach you." 156 00:08:46,984 --> 00:08:48,945 MOIRA: And how old were you at that point? 157 00:08:49,528 --> 00:08:50,738 DANIELA: I was 16. 158 00:08:54,367 --> 00:08:57,912 She was so brilliant. She's so curious. 159 00:08:57,995 --> 00:09:00,873 She's so engaged. She has so much potential. 160 00:09:00,957 --> 00:09:04,961 She had this scholarship to study in Switzerland. 161 00:09:05,044 --> 00:09:07,046 But ultimately, she doesn't go. 162 00:09:08,548 --> 00:09:09,757 KEITH: Uh-uh. 163 00:09:28,859 --> 00:09:29,902 I have... 164 00:09:29,986 --> 00:09:32,780 NANCY: He told me that Dani was brilliant. 165 00:09:32,863 --> 00:09:35,700 Like a Mega Society brilliant. 166 00:09:35,783 --> 00:09:36,826 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 167 00:09:36,909 --> 00:09:38,953 NANCY: And so what Keith wanted her to do 168 00:09:39,036 --> 00:09:41,956 was follow him around with a video camera. 169 00:09:42,039 --> 00:09:44,500 KEITH: Dani, the camera woman. 170 00:09:45,668 --> 00:09:47,503 NANCY: He wanted his life documented 171 00:09:47,586 --> 00:09:50,298 because future generations would want access to it. 172 00:09:50,965 --> 00:09:52,925 The best movie... 173 00:09:54,260 --> 00:09:55,761 is where the audience walks away 174 00:09:55,845 --> 00:09:57,179 thinking they know the character. 175 00:09:57,263 --> 00:09:58,556 And that'd be a valuable thing 176 00:09:58,639 --> 00:10:01,183 'cause if people came to know how I worked in the world, 177 00:10:01,267 --> 00:10:04,562 well, you know, a lot of the rumors wouldn't be true. 178 00:10:04,645 --> 00:10:08,441 They don't seem to catch any of my humanity or my humor, 179 00:10:08,524 --> 00:10:10,818 but they don't seem to catch any of my abilities, either. 180 00:10:10,901 --> 00:10:12,236 What do you think, Dani? 181 00:10:19,744 --> 00:10:23,414 But, like, you don't have me jumping over... someone. 182 00:10:24,081 --> 00:10:25,499 (DANIELA LAUGHS) 183 00:10:26,625 --> 00:10:27,668 (GRUNTS) 184 00:10:29,503 --> 00:10:31,464 How did I look going over people? 185 00:10:33,424 --> 00:10:35,217 He wanted everything videoed. 186 00:10:39,847 --> 00:10:41,390 (LAUGHS) 187 00:10:41,474 --> 00:10:43,934 DANIELA: I like the way you opened that cereal, Keith. 188 00:10:44,018 --> 00:10:45,269 KEITH: Yeah? 189 00:10:45,353 --> 00:10:47,313 DANIELA: The rest of the world will appreciate it as well. 190 00:10:51,525 --> 00:10:52,568 DANIELA: No. No, never. 191 00:10:55,237 --> 00:10:58,699 Keith was always saying, "If anybody ever scrutinizes us, 192 00:10:58,783 --> 00:11:00,368 they'll see the videos and they'll know 193 00:11:00,451 --> 00:11:01,577 we didn't do anything wrong." 194 00:11:01,660 --> 00:11:04,330 Be good if you had several cameras. 195 00:11:04,413 --> 00:11:05,956 -You know what I mean? -DANIELA: Mm-hmm. 196 00:11:11,003 --> 00:11:12,588 MARK VICENTE: Is that any good? 197 00:11:12,671 --> 00:11:14,215 -Is that one? -MARK: Have you read that one? 198 00:11:14,298 --> 00:11:16,717 No, I haven't read it. I know about that particular book. 199 00:11:16,801 --> 00:11:19,553 Some of these books I know about and some of them I've read. 200 00:11:20,596 --> 00:11:23,808 MARK: Daniela was working for Raniere. 201 00:11:23,891 --> 00:11:26,102 So basically, he would have her read 202 00:11:26,185 --> 00:11:28,396 incredibly complex books on science 203 00:11:28,479 --> 00:11:32,858 and give him abridged versions of what the books were about. 204 00:11:32,942 --> 00:11:34,819 And she was pretty smart, so she could do it. 205 00:11:36,195 --> 00:11:39,198 MOIRA: Did you ever get paid for the book reports? 206 00:11:39,281 --> 00:11:42,535 DANIELA: No. Because I was there on a visitor's visa. 207 00:11:42,618 --> 00:11:44,954 They couldn't figure out how to pay me. 208 00:11:45,037 --> 00:11:50,709 I had no structure, no job, and no legal way to make money. 209 00:11:50,793 --> 00:11:52,753 MOIRA: Did there come a time when you took money 210 00:11:52,837 --> 00:11:54,380 from the office? 211 00:11:54,463 --> 00:11:57,842 DANIELA: Yes. About a year into my time at NXIVM, 212 00:11:57,925 --> 00:12:01,429 I stole six thousand dollars from the admin office. 213 00:12:01,512 --> 00:12:03,931 It was a stupid, impulsive decision 214 00:12:04,014 --> 00:12:06,183 and I felt terrible about it. 215 00:12:06,267 --> 00:12:08,727 So I put the money back right away, 216 00:12:08,811 --> 00:12:10,980 but the feeling of guilt consumed me. 217 00:12:12,106 --> 00:12:15,359 Daniela makes the mistake of confessing this 218 00:12:15,443 --> 00:12:19,113 to Keith Raniere. Keith Raniere tells her, 219 00:12:19,196 --> 00:12:21,323 "Okay, I'm going to have to tell Nancy Salzman." 220 00:12:25,411 --> 00:12:27,955 NANCY: Most of my beliefs about people in the organization 221 00:12:28,038 --> 00:12:29,915 were colored by the things Keith told me. 222 00:12:31,041 --> 00:12:36,213 And so he caused me not to like her. 223 00:12:36,297 --> 00:12:41,177 Or, you know, to have feelings about her, like she was sneaky. 224 00:12:41,260 --> 00:12:45,431 And then he told me other things where she was problematic. 225 00:12:45,514 --> 00:12:48,726 MOIRA: How did your relationship with the defendant change? 226 00:12:48,809 --> 00:12:49,852 DANIELA: At the time, 227 00:12:49,935 --> 00:12:52,354 it felt like everyone thought I was bad. 228 00:12:52,438 --> 00:12:54,398 And he didn't adopt that stance. 229 00:12:56,066 --> 00:12:57,651 He kept being my friend. 230 00:12:57,735 --> 00:12:59,904 (CROWD APPLAUDING) 231 00:12:59,987 --> 00:13:01,739 DANIELA: I became closer to him. 232 00:13:07,745 --> 00:13:09,038 I remember one day, 233 00:13:09,121 --> 00:13:11,957 we were in the room next to Prefect's office. 234 00:13:12,041 --> 00:13:13,459 The door was closed. 235 00:13:13,542 --> 00:13:16,712 I was telling him how my parents were getting a divorce. 236 00:13:16,795 --> 00:13:19,215 And then, in the middle of sharing this, 237 00:13:19,298 --> 00:13:21,342 he moved closer and kissed me. 238 00:13:22,801 --> 00:13:24,720 MOIRA: Did the defendant say anything? 239 00:13:26,472 --> 00:13:29,266 DANIELA: He asked me if I liked that he had done that. 240 00:13:30,017 --> 00:13:31,143 MOIRA: What did you say? 241 00:13:33,896 --> 00:13:35,606 DANIELA: I said, "Yes." 242 00:13:35,689 --> 00:13:39,360 But, I mean, the truth is, I had never been kissed 243 00:13:39,443 --> 00:13:41,987 or had any type of sexual contact. 244 00:13:44,365 --> 00:13:47,993 When I got home, I received a phone call from Keith. 245 00:13:48,077 --> 00:13:49,453 He said, "I think it's better 246 00:13:49,537 --> 00:13:51,705 if you don't tell anybody about our kiss. 247 00:13:51,789 --> 00:13:53,958 I think that should stay between us." 248 00:13:55,376 --> 00:13:56,585 And I complied. 249 00:13:58,337 --> 00:13:59,588 But I look back, 250 00:13:59,672 --> 00:14:02,633 I think I could have changed the course of history 251 00:14:02,716 --> 00:14:04,426 if I had told my mother. 252 00:14:04,510 --> 00:14:06,428 I mean, I don't think she would have been 253 00:14:06,512 --> 00:14:09,557 very happy to hear that a 40-year-old man 254 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,226 had kissed her 17-year-old daughter. 255 00:14:12,309 --> 00:14:13,561 Vanguard or not. 256 00:14:18,065 --> 00:14:19,400 MOIRA: After that night, 257 00:14:19,483 --> 00:14:22,695 did the nature of the conversations progress? 258 00:14:22,778 --> 00:14:25,990 DANIELA: Yes. They escalated in a sexual way. 259 00:14:29,034 --> 00:14:32,496 One night, there was, like, open flirting going on. 260 00:14:32,580 --> 00:14:33,622 (GRUNTS) 261 00:14:34,540 --> 00:14:36,542 But I was extremely shy, 262 00:14:36,625 --> 00:14:38,711 so it took a lot of prodding on his part 263 00:14:38,794 --> 00:14:41,589 to really move the conversation forward in that way. 264 00:14:43,841 --> 00:14:45,301 But he'd also say, 265 00:14:45,384 --> 00:14:48,053 "We can't have sex because you're too young." 266 00:14:48,137 --> 00:14:51,473 And so, he'd basically tell me about his sex life. 267 00:14:52,808 --> 00:14:54,935 MOIRA: So then, was your 18th birthday 268 00:14:55,019 --> 00:14:57,313 something that was being built up to? 269 00:14:57,396 --> 00:14:58,814 DANIELA: Yes. In fact, 270 00:14:58,897 --> 00:15:01,609 there was a particular conversation that happened 271 00:15:01,692 --> 00:15:03,777 maybe a month or so before. 272 00:15:04,945 --> 00:15:07,197 We were at volleyball. 273 00:15:07,281 --> 00:15:10,576 He said, "Your birthday is coming up. 274 00:15:10,659 --> 00:15:12,745 What do you want for your birthday?" 275 00:15:13,370 --> 00:15:14,496 And in my mind, 276 00:15:14,580 --> 00:15:17,416 the clear answer was, "I want sex." 277 00:15:17,499 --> 00:15:20,669 But I was still too shy to say that. 278 00:15:20,753 --> 00:15:24,632 So he said, "Well, if you're too shy to say it, 279 00:15:24,715 --> 00:15:28,135 why don't you just write it on the palm of my hand?" 280 00:15:28,218 --> 00:15:32,431 So with my hand I spelled out S-E-X. 281 00:15:35,392 --> 00:15:37,603 I remember feeling very insecure. 282 00:15:39,229 --> 00:15:42,816 He said, "Is there something that you're insecure about?" 283 00:15:42,900 --> 00:15:48,030 I told him I was insecure about my body. That I felt fat. 284 00:15:48,113 --> 00:15:51,241 And he said I needed to lose weight. 285 00:15:52,242 --> 00:15:54,244 That when a woman was overweight, 286 00:15:54,328 --> 00:15:56,205 it interrupted the energy. 287 00:15:56,288 --> 00:15:58,415 So he couldn't share his sexual energy 288 00:15:58,499 --> 00:15:59,917 with somebody like that. 289 00:16:02,336 --> 00:16:03,671 I felt rejected. 290 00:16:07,466 --> 00:16:10,636 But then, he called me a few days later 291 00:16:10,719 --> 00:16:12,179 and he said it was time. 292 00:16:13,222 --> 00:16:15,265 He told me to meet him at the office 293 00:16:15,349 --> 00:16:17,184 of an old business he had. 294 00:16:17,267 --> 00:16:18,727 (HEARTBEAT) 295 00:16:18,811 --> 00:16:21,355 MOIRA: What happened when you got there? 296 00:16:21,438 --> 00:16:24,942 DANIELA: He led me to this room that had a dim light, 297 00:16:25,025 --> 00:16:28,862 so I couldn't see very well. There were stacks of boxes 298 00:16:28,946 --> 00:16:32,157 and on the floor, there was an old dirty mattress 299 00:16:32,241 --> 00:16:35,869 that had, like, raggy, used sheets on it. 300 00:16:35,953 --> 00:16:37,329 -(VIDEO CAMERA BEEPS) -(HEARTBEAT) 301 00:16:37,413 --> 00:16:39,540 DANIELA: He asked me to take my clothes off 302 00:16:39,623 --> 00:16:42,501 and lay down, so I did. 303 00:16:42,584 --> 00:16:46,088 Then, he too started doing oral sex on me. 304 00:16:46,171 --> 00:16:48,966 (HEARTBEAT SPEEDS UP) 305 00:16:50,217 --> 00:16:52,428 DANIELA: Eventually, he took off his clothes 306 00:16:52,511 --> 00:16:53,762 and he climbed on top of me 307 00:16:53,846 --> 00:16:56,515 for a little while and gave me a long hug. 308 00:16:57,933 --> 00:17:00,728 And then, he just got up, got dressed, 309 00:17:00,811 --> 00:17:02,563 and I drove him home. 310 00:17:02,646 --> 00:17:04,356 (CAR ENGINE STARTING) 311 00:17:17,703 --> 00:17:20,414 -(EMILY SAUL GROANS, SIGHS) -(INDISTINCT CHATTER) 312 00:17:20,497 --> 00:17:22,291 EMILY: Daniela, she was young 313 00:17:22,374 --> 00:17:25,210 and with a man who was in his forties. 314 00:17:25,294 --> 00:17:27,963 Raniere is someone that she adores. 315 00:17:29,298 --> 00:17:30,716 Possibly worships. 316 00:17:30,799 --> 00:17:32,926 Like the power dynamic is so messed up. 317 00:17:34,344 --> 00:17:36,680 You already have someone who is incredibly impressionable 318 00:17:36,764 --> 00:17:40,142 and then she's humiliated for making that request 319 00:17:40,225 --> 00:17:41,810 for sex for her 18th birthday. 320 00:17:41,894 --> 00:17:43,479 Which she is confused about wanting 321 00:17:43,562 --> 00:17:45,063 and can't consult anyone about 322 00:17:45,147 --> 00:17:48,275 because she is young and she is alone in Albany 323 00:17:48,358 --> 00:17:49,735 with all of these-- 324 00:17:49,818 --> 00:17:52,112 Where no one's supervising Raniere, 325 00:17:52,196 --> 00:17:54,782 where there are no ethical checks on Raniere. 326 00:17:54,865 --> 00:17:56,950 These are the first sexual encounters. 327 00:17:57,034 --> 00:17:59,328 This is the foundation upon which she, like, 328 00:17:59,411 --> 00:18:00,871 understands sex 329 00:18:00,954 --> 00:18:03,040 and sex as it relates to relationships. 330 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,714 MOIRA: After you began having sex with the defendant, 331 00:18:10,798 --> 00:18:12,174 what changed? 332 00:18:12,257 --> 00:18:14,676 DANIELA: My entire life changed. 333 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,679 I mean, I had full access to Keith 334 00:18:17,763 --> 00:18:19,932 and I became part of the inner circle. 335 00:18:21,016 --> 00:18:22,392 I was literally spending 336 00:18:22,476 --> 00:18:24,686 all my waking moments in Flintlock. 337 00:18:33,070 --> 00:18:34,613 (CHUCKLES) 338 00:18:35,739 --> 00:18:36,782 MOIRA: Flintlock was a place 339 00:18:36,865 --> 00:18:39,493 that was almost exclusively accessed 340 00:18:39,576 --> 00:18:44,248 by members of the inner circle. And specifically, mostly people 341 00:18:44,331 --> 00:18:46,834 who were in a sexual relationship 342 00:18:46,917 --> 00:18:49,753 with Keith Raniere or had been in the past. 343 00:18:49,837 --> 00:18:51,088 (DANIELA GIGGLES) 344 00:18:56,134 --> 00:18:58,262 KEITH: Now it's f-- DANIELA: 345 00:19:03,267 --> 00:19:04,643 (DANIELA CHUCKLES) 346 00:19:10,232 --> 00:19:12,025 DANIELA: Every time we were alone, 347 00:19:12,109 --> 00:19:14,528 my role was to give him oral sex. 348 00:19:18,740 --> 00:19:21,577 (SIREN WAILING DISTANTLY) 349 00:19:23,078 --> 00:19:26,373 My mind is racing as I am listening to this, 350 00:19:26,456 --> 00:19:30,752 because, you know, I'm having flashbacks of memories 351 00:19:30,836 --> 00:19:32,963 in Flintlock and around and-- 352 00:19:33,046 --> 00:19:36,425 You know, I've learned about three women just this week 353 00:19:36,508 --> 00:19:38,635 that Keith had sexual relationships with 354 00:19:38,719 --> 00:19:42,764 during the time I was there, that I didn't know about. 355 00:19:42,848 --> 00:19:45,058 One of them was Lauren, 356 00:19:45,142 --> 00:19:48,478 and now I just learned about Daniela. 357 00:19:49,521 --> 00:19:52,024 The jurors have to understand 358 00:19:52,107 --> 00:19:56,153 this is a very clever, masterful, 359 00:19:56,236 --> 00:19:59,823 artful manipulation of people, and it's a chess game 360 00:19:59,907 --> 00:20:01,575 and he's been playing it for years. 361 00:20:01,658 --> 00:20:04,661 And to him, we're just pawns on that chess board. 362 00:20:04,745 --> 00:20:08,665 So Daniela had a value he wanted to extract. 363 00:20:08,749 --> 00:20:11,126 (CLEARS THROAT) And the way to extract that 364 00:20:11,209 --> 00:20:14,630 is by having an intimate sexual connection. 365 00:20:14,713 --> 00:20:16,673 What he wanted is her mind. 366 00:20:19,217 --> 00:20:20,844 MOIRA: Did you ever talk with the defendant 367 00:20:20,928 --> 00:20:23,972 -about illegal activities? -DANIELA: Yes. 368 00:20:24,056 --> 00:20:26,642 There was a time when Keith wanted to gain access 369 00:20:26,725 --> 00:20:28,644 to a certain email account. 370 00:20:28,727 --> 00:20:31,313 Keith said, "Do you think you could do it?" 371 00:20:31,396 --> 00:20:33,190 So I took it as a challenge. 372 00:20:33,273 --> 00:20:35,400 MOIRA: Was the defendant trying to gather information 373 00:20:35,484 --> 00:20:37,611 -about other people? -DANIELA: Yes. 374 00:20:37,694 --> 00:20:39,905 There was a long list of people. 375 00:20:39,988 --> 00:20:41,448 MOIRA: Who stands out? 376 00:20:41,531 --> 00:20:44,826 DANIELA: Edgar Bronfman. Claire Bronfman's father. 377 00:20:46,703 --> 00:20:50,624 MOIRA: What Keith Raniere wanted was to see 378 00:20:50,707 --> 00:20:54,503 what connections there were between Edgar Bronfman 379 00:20:54,586 --> 00:20:58,298 and efforts to take down the organization. 380 00:21:00,717 --> 00:21:03,220 We were a little tiny three-million-dollar business 381 00:21:03,303 --> 00:21:05,764 and we ended up on the cover of Forbes. 382 00:21:06,932 --> 00:21:08,809 "You don't end up on the cover of Forbes 383 00:21:08,892 --> 00:21:10,269 as a three-million-dollar company, 384 00:21:10,352 --> 00:21:13,730 unless somebody puts you there," is what Keith said. 385 00:21:15,565 --> 00:21:18,026 He wanted to know who paid for that article 386 00:21:18,110 --> 00:21:21,655 'cause he believed that that article was paid for 387 00:21:21,738 --> 00:21:23,323 and we needed to get to the bottom of it. 388 00:21:23,407 --> 00:21:25,909 And I think that's probably why he did the computer hacking. 389 00:21:27,411 --> 00:21:28,870 DANIELA: I started researching 390 00:21:28,954 --> 00:21:31,331 and discussing my ideas with Keith. 391 00:21:31,415 --> 00:21:33,083 I said, "Isn't this wrong? 392 00:21:33,166 --> 00:21:35,043 NXIVM is supposed to teach ethics 393 00:21:35,127 --> 00:21:38,046 but this is illegal, this is unethical. 394 00:21:38,130 --> 00:21:40,173 Why are we breaking the rules?" 395 00:21:40,257 --> 00:21:41,842 And Keith said, "Look, 396 00:21:41,925 --> 00:21:44,136 if we're trying to build a better world, 397 00:21:44,219 --> 00:21:47,639 we have to do unethical things ethically." 398 00:21:49,808 --> 00:21:52,978 I think he found a way to... 399 00:21:54,730 --> 00:21:57,983 find the personality of each of us. 400 00:21:58,942 --> 00:22:00,902 And know how to... 401 00:22:02,154 --> 00:22:03,405 manipulate us. 402 00:22:03,488 --> 00:22:06,616 He used people to get what he wanted. 403 00:22:07,367 --> 00:22:09,411 These were good people... 404 00:22:10,746 --> 00:22:13,874 really good people with amazing values, 405 00:22:14,583 --> 00:22:16,960 led to believe... 406 00:22:18,587 --> 00:22:20,297 that they were doing something good. 407 00:22:23,383 --> 00:22:25,510 MOIRA: Did there come a time when you had difficulty 408 00:22:25,594 --> 00:22:26,762 renewing your visa? 409 00:22:27,387 --> 00:22:28,388 DANIELA: Yes. 410 00:22:28,472 --> 00:22:31,266 My visa was withdrawn in late 2004 411 00:22:31,349 --> 00:22:33,810 and I was sent back to Mexico. 412 00:22:33,894 --> 00:22:36,563 I was crushed because I couldn't go back 413 00:22:36,646 --> 00:22:38,231 for at least a year. 414 00:22:38,315 --> 00:22:40,067 That's when Keith said he came up 415 00:22:40,150 --> 00:22:41,818 with a plan to bring me back. 416 00:22:45,363 --> 00:22:48,575 MOIRA: Daniela ends up flying to Canada 417 00:22:48,658 --> 00:22:52,245 and being driven by members of the enterprise 418 00:22:52,329 --> 00:22:55,248 back to Clifton Park, New York. 419 00:22:56,375 --> 00:22:58,835 Now, she's in the United States illegally. 420 00:23:01,296 --> 00:23:02,422 DANIELA: When I got back, 421 00:23:02,506 --> 00:23:04,591 there was a Christmas Eve get-together. 422 00:23:04,674 --> 00:23:06,134 -(INDISTINCT CHATTER) -Merry Christmas. 423 00:23:06,218 --> 00:23:07,511 DANIELA: And everyone, including Keith, 424 00:23:07,594 --> 00:23:09,679 were partaking in the fun. 425 00:23:09,763 --> 00:23:12,474 Discussing the exploits of this triumphant story 426 00:23:12,557 --> 00:23:15,060 of how we'd successfully crossed the border. 427 00:23:16,561 --> 00:23:20,023 But later that night, Keith, Marianna, and I 428 00:23:20,107 --> 00:23:23,151 were just hanging out in Flintlock. 429 00:23:23,235 --> 00:23:25,403 And then, Keith wanted to take a nap 430 00:23:25,487 --> 00:23:26,780 with the both of us. 431 00:23:29,741 --> 00:23:32,536 He brought us upstairs and we laid down. 432 00:23:32,619 --> 00:23:34,037 (BED CREAKING) 433 00:23:35,122 --> 00:23:36,414 DANIELA: All of a sudden, 434 00:23:36,498 --> 00:23:39,334 he's like, kissing her and touching me. 435 00:23:41,419 --> 00:23:44,506 It felt dirty. It was wrong. 436 00:23:44,589 --> 00:23:46,883 (HEARTBEAT) 437 00:23:46,967 --> 00:23:50,679 So I start crying, then Marianna starts crying. 438 00:23:50,762 --> 00:23:55,600 Like, really messed up crying, and eventually, he stopped. 439 00:24:03,650 --> 00:24:05,402 MOIRA: Did you ever discuss that incident 440 00:24:05,485 --> 00:24:06,820 with the defendant? 441 00:24:06,903 --> 00:24:10,157 DANIELA: No. I just pretended it never happened 442 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:11,908 and he did exactly the same. 443 00:24:12,909 --> 00:24:14,161 (BIRDS CHIRPING) 444 00:24:18,498 --> 00:24:21,126 NANCY: I had a conversation with my daughter recently 445 00:24:21,209 --> 00:24:24,629 who explained to me that the only time 446 00:24:24,713 --> 00:24:31,511 that Keith Raniere ever enjoyed any kind of sexual relationship 447 00:24:31,595 --> 00:24:34,890 was when there was something a little bit depraved about it. 448 00:24:34,973 --> 00:24:36,850 And I said, "What do you mean?" And she-- he said, like-- 449 00:24:36,933 --> 00:24:39,102 she said to me, like, "When you went away on vacation, 450 00:24:39,186 --> 00:24:41,688 he used to love to have sex all over your house. 451 00:24:43,523 --> 00:24:45,317 And you wouldn't know." 452 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,694 He would love that sort of thing. 453 00:24:47,777 --> 00:24:48,945 Or it had to be a threesome, 454 00:24:49,029 --> 00:24:52,782 or it had to be some kind of off thing. 455 00:24:55,493 --> 00:24:58,038 -Get it. Dani. Dani. -(CROWD LAUGHS) 456 00:24:58,121 --> 00:24:59,748 -It's just not okay. -DANIELA: It's better with-- 457 00:24:59,831 --> 00:25:01,333 -You guys don't like it? -It's okay. 458 00:25:01,416 --> 00:25:03,919 -It's better than putting it-- -DANIELA: A scrunchie! 459 00:25:04,002 --> 00:25:06,671 It's so pretty, it's distracting to your team. 460 00:25:06,755 --> 00:25:08,798 -That's the problem. -Well, that's not okay. 461 00:25:08,882 --> 00:25:10,592 If we start blowing points over it... 462 00:25:10,675 --> 00:25:12,552 -DANIELA: Yeah, true. -...then that's a problem. 463 00:25:12,636 --> 00:25:13,887 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 464 00:25:13,970 --> 00:25:15,347 NANCY: I remember 465 00:25:15,430 --> 00:25:18,225 all of a sudden, Marianna and Daniela 466 00:25:18,308 --> 00:25:20,185 were talking about bringing their sister 467 00:25:20,268 --> 00:25:23,647 and their brother, Adrian and Camila, 468 00:25:23,730 --> 00:25:25,023 to Albany as well. 469 00:25:26,650 --> 00:25:28,568 Apparently, Keith thought it would be a good idea 470 00:25:28,652 --> 00:25:30,779 for the whole family to be together here. 471 00:25:34,866 --> 00:25:36,201 DANIELA: When they first arrived, 472 00:25:36,284 --> 00:25:37,494 they were spending all their time 473 00:25:37,577 --> 00:25:40,497 with us and Keith. Almost like a family. 474 00:25:41,706 --> 00:25:43,083 Keith's plan for Cami 475 00:25:43,166 --> 00:25:45,710 was that she would clean Nancy's house for money 476 00:25:45,794 --> 00:25:47,629 to attend classes. 477 00:25:47,712 --> 00:25:50,298 But the house they found for her to live in 478 00:25:50,382 --> 00:25:52,259 was far away from where I lived. 479 00:25:52,342 --> 00:25:55,887 So shortly after they arrived, I lost control of them. 480 00:25:57,555 --> 00:25:59,140 NANCY: Keith would give people 481 00:25:59,224 --> 00:26:03,186 what he called "affectionate," um, nicknames. 482 00:26:03,270 --> 00:26:07,774 Camila's nickname was V.C. I never knew what it was. 483 00:26:09,985 --> 00:26:11,444 MOIRA: Did you ever hear the defendant 484 00:26:11,528 --> 00:26:14,990 say anything sexual in front of your sister, Camila? 485 00:26:15,073 --> 00:26:18,535 DANIELA: Yes. He would make sexual jokes. 486 00:26:18,618 --> 00:26:21,413 And he used to tease her about her innocent demeanor. 487 00:26:22,539 --> 00:26:25,041 He even nicknamed her "Virgin Camila." 488 00:26:29,337 --> 00:26:31,131 VERO JASPEADO: I met Cami since I arrived. 489 00:26:31,214 --> 00:26:32,590 I met the entire family. 490 00:26:32,674 --> 00:26:36,428 Yeah, with Cami I-- I felt proud that she was so young. 491 00:26:36,511 --> 00:26:39,973 I almost felt like, "Oh, my God, I wish I would have had that. 492 00:26:40,056 --> 00:26:42,350 Your entire family committed 493 00:26:42,434 --> 00:26:44,811 to personal growth, to community, 494 00:26:44,894 --> 00:26:46,980 to loving each other." 495 00:26:48,523 --> 00:26:49,566 And... 496 00:26:51,109 --> 00:26:55,447 I had no idea, no clue... 497 00:26:57,073 --> 00:27:00,618 by then that she was going through such hard times. 498 00:27:03,830 --> 00:27:08,209 NANCY: When Camila first came, she was very sweet. 499 00:27:08,293 --> 00:27:10,128 She was everybody's favorite. 500 00:27:12,589 --> 00:27:14,341 As time went on... 501 00:27:15,383 --> 00:27:18,178 she became more and more withdrawn 502 00:27:18,261 --> 00:27:21,056 and it became harder and harder to communicate with her. 503 00:27:22,682 --> 00:27:26,394 And I would ask Keith questions from time to time about Camila. 504 00:27:26,478 --> 00:27:28,521 How come nobody knows where she lives? 505 00:27:28,605 --> 00:27:29,939 And he said to me, "Well, you know, 506 00:27:30,023 --> 00:27:32,609 her mother was very invasive 507 00:27:32,692 --> 00:27:35,528 and she had no privacy 508 00:27:35,612 --> 00:27:38,073 and privacy is very important to her 509 00:27:38,156 --> 00:27:41,034 and so she doesn't want anyone to know where she lives." 510 00:27:43,411 --> 00:27:44,579 MOIRA: Looking back now, 511 00:27:44,662 --> 00:27:47,749 do you have any thoughts on where Camila was placed? 512 00:27:47,832 --> 00:27:49,793 DANIELA: I think it was very manipulative. 513 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,254 She was isolated for easy access. 514 00:27:55,006 --> 00:27:56,633 MOIRA: Did you come to learn that the defendant 515 00:27:56,716 --> 00:27:59,511 was having sex with your sister Camila? 516 00:27:59,594 --> 00:28:03,390 DANIELA: Yes. Some time around the fall of 2006, 517 00:28:03,473 --> 00:28:06,351 I asked Keith if he was having sex with Cami. 518 00:28:06,434 --> 00:28:08,895 MOIRA: How did the defendant respond? 519 00:28:08,978 --> 00:28:10,730 DANIELA: He asked me if I minded. 520 00:28:11,981 --> 00:28:14,234 Then, he told me that some girls were more 521 00:28:14,317 --> 00:28:16,444 emotionally mature than others. 522 00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:20,573 I also remember, on top of being concerned 523 00:28:20,657 --> 00:28:23,576 about him having a relationship with her, 524 00:28:23,660 --> 00:28:26,413 I was also kind of jealous. 525 00:28:26,496 --> 00:28:30,333 He made me wait until after my 18th birthday, 526 00:28:30,417 --> 00:28:32,877 and he's having sex with my sister now. 527 00:28:34,379 --> 00:28:36,965 It's all kind of messed up that I felt that way, 528 00:28:37,048 --> 00:28:39,634 and I deeply regret that I didn't at that moment 529 00:28:39,717 --> 00:28:43,346 get my sister out of there. But that's how it happened. 530 00:28:49,018 --> 00:28:52,730 MOIRA: Keith Raniere's sexual relationship with Camila 531 00:28:52,814 --> 00:28:55,108 started when he was already having sex 532 00:28:55,191 --> 00:28:56,609 with both of her sisters. 533 00:28:58,278 --> 00:29:00,321 I think for Daniela, 534 00:29:00,405 --> 00:29:04,367 recounting the aspects of her family's involvement 535 00:29:04,451 --> 00:29:06,077 was incredibly painful 536 00:29:06,161 --> 00:29:09,247 because they really were so close-knit 537 00:29:09,330 --> 00:29:13,001 until Keith Raniere came into their lives. 538 00:29:16,713 --> 00:29:18,673 MOIRA: Daniela, did there come a time 539 00:29:18,756 --> 00:29:21,009 when you became pregnant? 540 00:29:21,092 --> 00:29:26,097 DANIELA: Yes. In late 2006. I was terrified. 541 00:29:27,182 --> 00:29:29,434 MOIRA: What were you terrified of? 542 00:29:29,517 --> 00:29:31,352 DANIELA: Having a baby with Keith. 543 00:29:31,436 --> 00:29:35,982 I mean, I liked Keith. In fact, I idolized him. 544 00:29:36,065 --> 00:29:38,443 But he was with a lot of other women, 545 00:29:38,526 --> 00:29:40,320 including my sisters. 546 00:29:40,403 --> 00:29:43,698 Plus, I was very young and I didn't feel ready. 547 00:29:44,741 --> 00:29:46,534 MOIRA: Did you tell anyone? 548 00:29:46,618 --> 00:29:48,453 DANIELA: I told Keith. 549 00:29:48,536 --> 00:29:51,414 His response was very surprising to me. 550 00:29:51,498 --> 00:29:54,000 He said, "It's not the end of the world." 551 00:29:54,083 --> 00:29:57,086 Then, he proceeded to tell me about other women 552 00:29:57,170 --> 00:30:00,715 who had had abortions in an effort to make it normal. 553 00:30:00,798 --> 00:30:02,175 MOIRA: Who did he mention? 554 00:30:02,258 --> 00:30:05,512 DANIELA: Pam and my sister, Marianna. 555 00:30:05,595 --> 00:30:08,014 MOIRA: Did he talk through any logistics with you? 556 00:30:08,806 --> 00:30:09,933 DANIELA: Yes. 557 00:30:10,016 --> 00:30:12,227 He said that he was going to pay for it 558 00:30:12,310 --> 00:30:14,562 and that Pam was going to take me to the doctor 559 00:30:14,646 --> 00:30:17,524 and stay with me throughout the entire process. 560 00:30:17,607 --> 00:30:20,360 MOIRA: Did you have any conversations with Pam? 561 00:30:20,443 --> 00:30:25,031 DANIELA: She said when they ask about the father of the child, 562 00:30:25,114 --> 00:30:28,660 under no circumstances I was to name Keith. 563 00:30:33,540 --> 00:30:35,625 MOIRA: Once the abortion had happened, 564 00:30:35,708 --> 00:30:37,794 did you talk to the defendant about it? 565 00:30:38,753 --> 00:30:39,963 DANIELA: Yes. 566 00:30:40,046 --> 00:30:42,465 A few days after we went on a walk, 567 00:30:42,549 --> 00:30:45,510 and Keith told me that this was a great opportunity 568 00:30:45,593 --> 00:30:48,054 for me to lose weight and get fit. 569 00:30:51,432 --> 00:30:55,144 He said, in fact, that there were Olympic athletes 570 00:30:55,228 --> 00:30:57,855 that get pregnant on purpose just to have an abortion 571 00:30:57,939 --> 00:30:59,357 as part of their training. 572 00:31:01,818 --> 00:31:03,236 MOIRA: How did you feel when the defendant 573 00:31:03,319 --> 00:31:04,362 said that to you? 574 00:31:06,322 --> 00:31:07,532 DANIELA: Shocked. 575 00:31:15,540 --> 00:31:17,750 MARC AGNIFILO: You know, very tough. Tough to hear. 576 00:31:17,834 --> 00:31:20,670 I mean, I don't think Keith committed a crime, 577 00:31:20,753 --> 00:31:22,589 but I do think that-- that-- the-- the jury 578 00:31:22,672 --> 00:31:25,967 is going to seriously consider that evidence 579 00:31:26,050 --> 00:31:27,760 when deciding whether 580 00:31:27,844 --> 00:31:30,638 he is showing good or bad intention. 581 00:31:30,722 --> 00:31:31,848 I mean, so far, 582 00:31:31,931 --> 00:31:36,144 there's a lot of evidence of questionable behavior, 583 00:31:36,227 --> 00:31:39,814 bad judgment, um, you know, things like that. 584 00:31:39,897 --> 00:31:40,940 But I don't know that 585 00:31:41,024 --> 00:31:43,318 the government's really made out the charges. 586 00:31:43,401 --> 00:31:45,612 Uh, my fear is that it's not gonna matter. 587 00:31:45,695 --> 00:31:47,697 You know, that the jury's gonna have a hard time 588 00:31:47,780 --> 00:31:51,159 acquitting Keith just because of, you know, 589 00:31:51,242 --> 00:31:54,996 kind of the-- the parade of bad facts and bad evidence, 590 00:31:55,079 --> 00:31:57,540 not necessarily indicative of guilt 591 00:31:57,624 --> 00:31:59,584 but just indicative of, you know, 592 00:31:59,667 --> 00:32:02,462 a-- a-- a radically different lifestyle 593 00:32:02,545 --> 00:32:05,715 that, uh, an average juror really doesn't appreciate. 594 00:32:05,798 --> 00:32:07,634 Can't convict him because people came here 595 00:32:07,717 --> 00:32:11,220 and said that they felt pain. That's-- That's not a crime. 596 00:32:14,557 --> 00:32:16,517 MOIRA: Now, Daniela, at some point 597 00:32:16,601 --> 00:32:19,354 you had a falling-out with the defendant, correct? 598 00:32:19,437 --> 00:32:21,856 DANIELA: Yes, in 2006. 599 00:32:21,939 --> 00:32:26,152 I started hanging out with a fellow student at DSP. 600 00:32:26,235 --> 00:32:28,613 One night, after a community event, 601 00:32:28,696 --> 00:32:32,492 I think the slang word is, we "made out." 602 00:32:32,575 --> 00:32:36,829 And it felt real. It felt true. It felt nice. 603 00:32:36,913 --> 00:32:38,915 MOIRA: Did you tell anybody about this feeling 604 00:32:38,998 --> 00:32:43,336 -that you experienced? -DANIELA: Yes. I told Keith. 605 00:32:43,419 --> 00:32:45,296 MOIRA: Why did you tell the defendant? 606 00:32:45,380 --> 00:32:48,216 DANIELA: I guess, in all my innocence, 607 00:32:48,299 --> 00:32:50,510 I thought he was my best friend. 608 00:32:50,593 --> 00:32:52,637 I had nobody else to tell, 609 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,348 and it never crossed my mind to hide it. 610 00:32:57,016 --> 00:32:59,394 MOIRA: And how did the defendant react? 611 00:32:59,477 --> 00:33:00,728 DANIELA: Keith was angry. 612 00:33:00,812 --> 00:33:02,980 I had never seen him angry before, 613 00:33:03,064 --> 00:33:05,024 and it was dramatic. 614 00:33:05,108 --> 00:33:10,238 There was no reasoning with him. It was this huge, huge fight. 615 00:33:10,321 --> 00:33:14,534 He said I wasn't pure anymore, that I had destroyed everything, 616 00:33:14,617 --> 00:33:16,911 and that this was an ethical breach for me. 617 00:33:17,954 --> 00:33:19,038 (FOOTSTEPS ECHOING) 618 00:33:19,122 --> 00:33:21,332 DANIELA: He locked himself up in the bathroom. 619 00:33:21,416 --> 00:33:23,376 I remember Karen asked me to leave 620 00:33:23,459 --> 00:33:26,045 and I was like, "No. I wanna figure this out. 621 00:33:26,129 --> 00:33:27,755 This makes no sense to me." 622 00:33:27,839 --> 00:33:30,091 He stayed in the bathroom for a little while 623 00:33:30,174 --> 00:33:34,929 and then he went upstairs. So I chased him into Pam's room. 624 00:33:35,012 --> 00:33:37,306 He grabbed me by the arm and threw me over 625 00:33:37,390 --> 00:33:40,768 onto a mattress on the floor and ran out. 626 00:33:40,852 --> 00:33:43,062 And that was the end of the argument. 627 00:33:47,859 --> 00:33:50,278 My life changed completely overnight. 628 00:33:51,738 --> 00:33:54,073 Just like sex with Keith meant access, 629 00:33:54,157 --> 00:33:57,577 not being with Keith meant loss of access and isolation. 630 00:33:59,662 --> 00:34:01,873 I couldn't be anywhere Keith was. 631 00:34:01,956 --> 00:34:03,875 Which meant I couldn't go to volleyball 632 00:34:03,958 --> 00:34:06,210 or any community events whatsoever. 633 00:34:07,420 --> 00:34:09,464 It was, like, an immediate shunning. 634 00:34:14,135 --> 00:34:18,014 (BIRDS CHIRPING) 635 00:34:23,060 --> 00:34:24,312 KAREN UNTERREINER: Dani was painted 636 00:34:24,395 --> 00:34:28,274 as being awful, nasty, prideful. 637 00:34:29,525 --> 00:34:31,736 He never told me what the problem really was. 638 00:34:31,819 --> 00:34:35,031 What they were fighting over, I wasn't allowed to know, 639 00:34:35,114 --> 00:34:38,242 but I was asked to work with her. 640 00:34:38,326 --> 00:34:41,996 He paints this as Daniela's only salvation. 641 00:34:42,079 --> 00:34:44,248 That she's so prideful, if we don't break it, 642 00:34:44,332 --> 00:34:46,209 her life is going to be miserable. 643 00:34:48,795 --> 00:34:52,048 So I coached Daniela and tried to help her 644 00:34:52,131 --> 00:34:55,676 through whatever so-called "pride issues" she had. 645 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,304 It was a problem that was unfixable 646 00:34:58,387 --> 00:34:59,931 'cause there was no problem. 647 00:35:01,432 --> 00:35:03,768 She was interested in another guy. 648 00:35:05,436 --> 00:35:06,521 At one point, 649 00:35:06,604 --> 00:35:10,274 I couldn't handle it anymore, working with Dani. 650 00:35:11,901 --> 00:35:15,029 And then he asked Lauren to take over. 651 00:35:17,073 --> 00:35:18,407 That's also when he instituted 652 00:35:18,491 --> 00:35:20,117 the whole idea of the room. (SIGHS) 653 00:35:25,414 --> 00:35:27,250 MOIRA: So was there an additional escalation 654 00:35:27,333 --> 00:35:28,751 in your punishment? 655 00:35:29,460 --> 00:35:30,545 DANIELA: Yes. 656 00:35:33,172 --> 00:35:35,424 They said, "You can go into this room 657 00:35:35,508 --> 00:35:38,177 with no possibility of indulgences." 658 00:35:39,637 --> 00:35:42,807 I remember asking how long I need to stay, 659 00:35:42,890 --> 00:35:44,725 and they said, "As long as it takes 660 00:35:44,809 --> 00:35:47,186 to heal your ethical breach." 661 00:35:47,270 --> 00:35:50,022 By that point, Keith had stopped talking to me 662 00:35:50,106 --> 00:35:52,108 and the community had shunned me. 663 00:35:52,191 --> 00:35:55,444 They had taken all my property, everything I owned, 664 00:35:55,528 --> 00:35:57,655 including my papers. 665 00:35:57,738 --> 00:36:00,157 So it was truly impossible for me to leave. 666 00:36:02,952 --> 00:36:04,120 I had no choice. 667 00:36:05,788 --> 00:36:09,834 I went into the room March 9th, 2010. 668 00:36:09,917 --> 00:36:12,170 And I was there for over two years. 669 00:36:19,176 --> 00:36:22,388 The room was completely empty. 670 00:36:22,471 --> 00:36:25,850 There was a one-and-a-half-inch foam mattress on the floor 671 00:36:25,933 --> 00:36:27,935 and the window had been blocked out 672 00:36:28,019 --> 00:36:29,437 so I couldn't look outside. 673 00:36:31,606 --> 00:36:33,107 They gave me some paper and pen 674 00:36:33,190 --> 00:36:36,027 because I was supposed to write to Keith every day. 675 00:36:37,737 --> 00:36:39,071 I'd write to Keith saying, 676 00:36:39,155 --> 00:36:43,409 "I love you. I'm so sorry I did this to you." 677 00:36:43,492 --> 00:36:46,621 I tried to make the most sincere apology possible 678 00:36:46,704 --> 00:36:48,706 because that was the only way out. 679 00:36:48,789 --> 00:36:51,208 (PENCIL SCRATCHING) 680 00:36:51,292 --> 00:36:52,668 But none of it worked. 681 00:36:56,797 --> 00:36:58,090 I had no books... 682 00:36:59,342 --> 00:37:00,509 nothing to read... 683 00:37:02,011 --> 00:37:03,387 nothing to listen to... 684 00:37:05,473 --> 00:37:07,016 and nothing to grab onto. 685 00:37:07,099 --> 00:37:12,021 -(CLOCK TICKING) -(DISTANT VOICES ECHOING) 686 00:37:14,523 --> 00:37:16,734 At times, I would lay on the ground 687 00:37:16,817 --> 00:37:19,195 and listen through the vent on the floor, 688 00:37:19,278 --> 00:37:22,490 or with my ear to the crack underneath the door, 689 00:37:22,573 --> 00:37:24,784 trying to catch any sounds I could. 690 00:37:26,243 --> 00:37:29,288 (PENCIL SCRATCHING) 691 00:37:29,372 --> 00:37:32,458 DANIELA: I had no connection to anything whatsoever. 692 00:37:35,711 --> 00:37:39,966 When Lauren would come, I hated her... 693 00:37:40,049 --> 00:37:42,426 but she was the only human that I was seeing, 694 00:37:43,344 --> 00:37:44,845 so I was happy to see her. 695 00:37:46,889 --> 00:37:50,685 Every conversation with Lauren, it was all about Keith. 696 00:37:53,145 --> 00:37:55,147 Because Keith, through my letters, 697 00:37:55,231 --> 00:37:56,774 was going to know when I was ready 698 00:37:56,857 --> 00:37:58,067 to leave the room. 699 00:37:59,193 --> 00:38:00,778 I wasn't going to know. 700 00:38:00,861 --> 00:38:03,823 My parents weren't. It was Keith. 701 00:38:03,906 --> 00:38:06,033 Keith was the one who was going to determine 702 00:38:06,117 --> 00:38:08,494 when I had healed my ethical breach. 703 00:38:54,165 --> 00:38:55,708 KAREN: Marianna was mostly living 704 00:38:55,791 --> 00:38:57,293 with us at that point. 705 00:38:57,376 --> 00:39:00,087 But Camila was there and her brother was there. 706 00:39:00,171 --> 00:39:02,590 They're the ones that were feeding her. 707 00:39:02,673 --> 00:39:04,592 But most of the community didn't understand 708 00:39:04,675 --> 00:39:06,469 why Dani wasn't around anymore. 709 00:39:07,803 --> 00:39:09,388 I don't think many people knew. 710 00:39:10,431 --> 00:39:13,017 -(INDISTINCT CHATTER) -(SMOOCHES) 711 00:39:15,394 --> 00:39:17,646 I just wanted to illustrate the point, I go nowhere 712 00:39:17,730 --> 00:39:19,148 without my Guru. 713 00:39:19,231 --> 00:39:22,401 (CROWD LAUGHS, INDISTINCT CHATTER) 714 00:39:23,986 --> 00:39:27,031 KAREN: There was a training right before she went in the room. 715 00:39:27,114 --> 00:39:29,700 It was all a set up for her parents 716 00:39:29,784 --> 00:39:31,285 to buy into that thing. 717 00:39:32,953 --> 00:39:36,123 KEITH: Community at first is something we have to work at. 718 00:39:36,207 --> 00:39:43,089 Work at ourselves to be able to appreciate contributing 719 00:39:43,172 --> 00:39:44,965 and what we get back so much 720 00:39:45,049 --> 00:39:47,468 that we would not have it any other way. 721 00:39:47,551 --> 00:39:50,179 And when you look around, you know, this community, 722 00:39:50,262 --> 00:39:53,140 there are things that all of you won't like. 723 00:39:53,224 --> 00:39:54,809 There might be someone in the community 724 00:39:54,892 --> 00:39:57,603 that you think is going and destroying everything. 725 00:39:57,686 --> 00:39:59,855 And you know something, maybe they don't even realize it. 726 00:39:59,939 --> 00:40:01,982 You have to be willing to go and give them the feedback. 727 00:40:02,066 --> 00:40:03,400 That's part of being in a community. 728 00:40:03,484 --> 00:40:06,570 By your being able to do 729 00:40:06,654 --> 00:40:09,365 the most distasteful of activities, 730 00:40:09,448 --> 00:40:11,325 you're gonna be the agent of change. 731 00:40:14,578 --> 00:40:18,666 NANCY: The way that Keith got Dani into the room 732 00:40:18,749 --> 00:40:20,793 was by enrolling her whole family 733 00:40:20,876 --> 00:40:22,336 in the problem of Dani. 734 00:41:40,915 --> 00:41:41,999 ADRIANA: Exactly. 735 00:41:43,042 --> 00:41:44,627 KEITH: 736 00:41:54,970 --> 00:41:57,223 KEITH: 737 00:41:58,182 --> 00:42:02,394 -ADRIANA: Mm-hmm? -KEITH: 738 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,028 It's hard for me to explain exactly 739 00:42:11,111 --> 00:42:13,906 the power that Keith Raniere was able to have 740 00:42:13,989 --> 00:42:16,200 over Daniela's family. 741 00:42:16,283 --> 00:42:20,704 But it's this real, like, this absolute trust in him. 742 00:42:22,122 --> 00:42:26,252 Daniela is a very family-oriented person 743 00:42:26,335 --> 00:42:28,087 and the desperation 744 00:42:28,170 --> 00:42:32,549 to maintain those relationships with her family is in large part 745 00:42:32,633 --> 00:42:37,888 what kept her committed to staying in that room. 746 00:42:44,561 --> 00:42:46,272 -(KNOCKING AT DOOR) -DANIELA: Meals were brought 747 00:42:46,355 --> 00:42:48,107 to me by someone in my family. 748 00:42:51,026 --> 00:42:52,278 They would knock on the door 749 00:42:52,361 --> 00:42:55,197 and leave the plate on the floor outside the bedroom, 750 00:42:55,281 --> 00:42:57,157 so I would never see anyone. 751 00:43:02,955 --> 00:43:06,458 Honestly, I broke pretty quickly. 752 00:43:09,086 --> 00:43:11,588 It's hard to describe my emotional state. 753 00:43:14,717 --> 00:43:17,303 But I'd get really crazy and really dark. 754 00:43:19,430 --> 00:43:21,390 After one of those episodes, 755 00:43:21,473 --> 00:43:23,642 I would be completely numb for days. 756 00:43:27,438 --> 00:43:30,107 It felt like my breach destroyed everything, 757 00:43:30,190 --> 00:43:31,608 and I had to fix it. 758 00:43:32,860 --> 00:43:34,611 So I started with my family. 759 00:43:37,573 --> 00:43:39,616 I drafted a newsletter that I would send 760 00:43:39,700 --> 00:43:41,368 to every member of my family. 761 00:43:44,663 --> 00:43:47,666 But that was shut down as a huge indulgence. 762 00:43:51,086 --> 00:43:54,173 At the time, my hair hung below my waist 763 00:43:54,256 --> 00:43:56,342 because Keith liked long hair, 764 00:43:56,425 --> 00:43:58,927 but someone left scissors in the bathroom 765 00:43:59,011 --> 00:44:00,346 and I cut it off. 766 00:44:02,890 --> 00:44:05,726 Lauren came with the big news that cutting my hair 767 00:44:05,809 --> 00:44:09,021 was a new, huge ethical breach. 768 00:44:09,104 --> 00:44:12,358 She said, "Now you're going to have to stay in this room 769 00:44:12,441 --> 00:44:16,028 until your hair grows back to where it was." 770 00:44:16,111 --> 00:44:21,033 I remember thinking, "My God! It's gonna be years." 771 00:44:22,284 --> 00:44:25,871 -(SLOW HEARTBEAT) -♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 772 00:44:30,626 --> 00:44:32,419 DANIELA: Around that time, 773 00:44:32,503 --> 00:44:35,589 I started accumulating cleaning supplies, 774 00:44:35,672 --> 00:44:38,759 and I thought, "Soon as I have enough, 775 00:44:38,842 --> 00:44:42,262 I'll just drink it and everything will be over." 776 00:44:44,556 --> 00:44:49,103 (HEARTBEAT) 777 00:44:50,437 --> 00:44:52,481 ♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪ 778 00:44:58,070 --> 00:45:03,367 (BIRD CHIRPING DISTANTLY) 779 00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:09,540 (CHIRPING) 780 00:45:09,623 --> 00:45:12,459 DANIELA: Then, I looked out the window 781 00:45:12,543 --> 00:45:14,294 and I saw this cardinal. 782 00:45:14,378 --> 00:45:16,213 (CHIRPING) 783 00:45:16,296 --> 00:45:18,507 DANIELA: I don't know what it was about that bird... 784 00:45:20,467 --> 00:45:23,470 but at that moment, I remember thinking... 785 00:45:24,596 --> 00:45:25,931 "I want to live." 786 00:45:28,517 --> 00:45:30,227 (CHIRPING) 787 00:45:30,310 --> 00:45:33,522 DANIELA: All of a sudden, there was this sense of freedom. 788 00:45:34,231 --> 00:45:36,191 I thought, "Fuck everyone. 789 00:45:36,275 --> 00:45:38,902 I give up. I can't do this anymore. 790 00:45:38,986 --> 00:45:41,905 Go fuck yourselves. I'm going to live." 791 00:45:45,033 --> 00:45:47,411 I walked out of the room, down the stairs, 792 00:45:47,494 --> 00:45:48,787 and out the front door. 793 00:45:50,205 --> 00:45:51,498 I was done. 794 00:45:51,582 --> 00:45:55,919 (RAIN PATTERING) 795 00:46:13,395 --> 00:46:14,396 Hard day. 796 00:46:37,127 --> 00:46:40,464 I think I didn't expect it to be this emotionally grueling. 797 00:46:42,966 --> 00:46:45,260 I definitely got to a point... 798 00:46:46,762 --> 00:46:48,555 not that long ago, where I kind of 799 00:46:48,639 --> 00:46:51,517 considered myself to be fairly dead inside 800 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:53,810 because nothing, like I had no reaction to so-- 801 00:46:53,894 --> 00:46:55,771 Like I had no reaction basically to anything, 802 00:46:55,854 --> 00:46:57,064 to, like, any testimony. (SNIFFLES) 803 00:46:57,147 --> 00:46:58,941 And it still stands for a lot of things. 804 00:46:59,024 --> 00:47:00,901 Like, I can hear pretty gruesome testimony 805 00:47:00,984 --> 00:47:03,362 about a lot of different things and it doesn't f-- 806 00:47:03,445 --> 00:47:06,073 It doesn't, like, emotionally affect me, 807 00:47:06,156 --> 00:47:07,407 but I have noticed that the tra-- 808 00:47:07,491 --> 00:47:09,826 like, that this trial specifically... 809 00:47:09,910 --> 00:47:12,371 (CLICKS TONGUE) ...um, like, sticks with me 810 00:47:12,454 --> 00:47:16,083 and bothers me in ways... 811 00:47:16,708 --> 00:47:18,377 that others haven't. 812 00:47:22,506 --> 00:47:23,840 Whatever the prosecution is doing 813 00:47:23,924 --> 00:47:25,509 to paint Raniere in a terrible light 814 00:47:25,592 --> 00:47:27,511 has been so effective on me that it's like, 815 00:47:27,594 --> 00:47:31,515 I think it's because I feel, like, a personal loathing 816 00:47:31,598 --> 00:47:35,185 and it's-- it's sticking. It's all sticking. 817 00:47:35,269 --> 00:47:37,229 I mean, I wasn't locked in a room for two years, 818 00:47:37,312 --> 00:47:40,649 but I heard about someone's experience of that today 819 00:47:40,732 --> 00:47:42,734 and, like, I'm gonna continue to think about that 820 00:47:42,818 --> 00:47:44,111 for a long time and, like, 821 00:47:44,194 --> 00:47:46,613 I'm gonna carry that testimony with me for a long time and I... 822 00:47:49,575 --> 00:47:50,617 That's... 823 00:47:51,702 --> 00:47:53,370 that's what it means to bear witness 824 00:47:53,453 --> 00:47:54,913 to something like this, is that you take 825 00:47:54,997 --> 00:47:56,498 a little bit of that with you. 826 00:48:00,836 --> 00:48:02,254 (INHALES) 827 00:48:09,886 --> 00:48:12,931 ♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 828 00:49:08,695 --> 00:49:09,988 MARC: Certainly, her story on direct 829 00:49:10,072 --> 00:49:11,823 was a very dramatic story 830 00:49:11,907 --> 00:49:15,285 of her being locked in the room against her will, 831 00:49:15,369 --> 00:49:18,246 and-- and, uh, you know, kind of put upon 832 00:49:18,330 --> 00:49:19,331 in all these different ways 833 00:49:19,414 --> 00:49:21,333 and was the recipient of attention 834 00:49:21,416 --> 00:49:22,793 that she didn't want, 835 00:49:22,876 --> 00:49:25,837 and the question is whether that's whole story, 836 00:49:25,921 --> 00:49:27,964 whether that story is even valid. 837 00:49:29,633 --> 00:49:31,885 Maybe the room was overkill, 838 00:49:31,968 --> 00:49:33,470 maybe it was too much pressure. 839 00:49:33,553 --> 00:49:37,307 You know, maybe it's appropriate given the circumstances. 840 00:49:37,391 --> 00:49:40,477 Maybe it's important that her father who seems to be 841 00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:44,147 a very capable, intelligent, successful man 842 00:49:44,231 --> 00:49:46,942 was, um, you know, on board with this. 843 00:49:47,025 --> 00:49:48,485 You know, maybe that's significant. 844 00:49:49,820 --> 00:49:53,990 I mean, this is his daughter and if he's on board with this, 845 00:49:54,074 --> 00:49:55,617 you have to ask yourself, "Why?" 846 00:49:55,701 --> 00:49:57,035 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 847 00:49:57,119 --> 00:49:58,495 MARC: And all the facts aren't out yet 848 00:49:58,578 --> 00:50:00,622 and we still have a ways to go. 849 00:50:00,706 --> 00:50:03,667 We'll see what the cross has to add. 850 00:50:07,838 --> 00:50:08,922 Good afternoon, Daniela. 851 00:50:10,090 --> 00:50:11,341 DANIELA: Good afternoon. 852 00:50:11,425 --> 00:50:13,677 MARC: I want to ask you a few questions about your father. 853 00:50:16,471 --> 00:50:17,556 He wanted you to do well 854 00:50:17,639 --> 00:50:19,474 -in the world, right? -DANIELA: Yes. 855 00:50:20,851 --> 00:50:22,811 MARC: And did you discuss with your father the fact 856 00:50:22,894 --> 00:50:26,064 that he wanted you to stay in a room in your family's house 857 00:50:26,148 --> 00:50:27,816 until you did certain things? 858 00:50:27,899 --> 00:50:28,900 DANIELA: No. That-- 859 00:50:28,984 --> 00:50:31,069 that was not at all the proposal. 860 00:50:31,153 --> 00:50:34,781 Nor did I have a discussion with just my father. 861 00:50:34,865 --> 00:50:40,579 It was my father, my mother, Lauren Salzman, and Karen. 862 00:50:40,662 --> 00:50:42,581 MARC: Did they say that you could do certain things 863 00:50:42,664 --> 00:50:43,832 and leave the room? 864 00:50:43,915 --> 00:50:46,752 DANIELA: No. I wasn't given an actual plan 865 00:50:46,835 --> 00:50:48,128 to go outside the room. 866 00:50:48,211 --> 00:50:49,755 MARC: And before you went in the room, 867 00:50:49,838 --> 00:50:52,257 you started to write to Keith, correct? 868 00:50:52,340 --> 00:50:53,383 DANIELA: I had been writing 869 00:50:53,467 --> 00:50:56,344 to Keith for years, as instructed. 870 00:50:56,428 --> 00:50:57,929 MARC: And what you write here is, 871 00:50:58,013 --> 00:50:59,347 "From my love to you 872 00:50:59,431 --> 00:51:01,308 and what is unfinished between us, 873 00:51:01,391 --> 00:51:04,644 I gather the strength to go against my own momentum 874 00:51:04,728 --> 00:51:06,480 and be honest with myself." 875 00:51:07,898 --> 00:51:10,776 DANIELA: This is a very complex situation. 876 00:51:10,859 --> 00:51:13,528 I'm getting drilled from my parents and Karen 877 00:51:13,612 --> 00:51:15,697 about how I should be doing, 878 00:51:15,781 --> 00:51:18,241 what I have done, and how bad I am. 879 00:51:19,534 --> 00:51:22,037 I'm already very isolated from everyone, 880 00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:24,456 I'm very confused, I'm very angry, 881 00:51:24,539 --> 00:51:25,791 I'm pretty broken, 882 00:51:25,874 --> 00:51:28,043 and there's a tightly controlled environment 883 00:51:28,126 --> 00:51:29,252 around me. 884 00:51:30,504 --> 00:51:31,838 MARC: Well, at some point, you decided 885 00:51:31,922 --> 00:51:33,965 you wanted to leave the room, correct? 886 00:51:34,841 --> 00:51:35,842 DANIELA: Yes. 887 00:51:35,926 --> 00:51:37,177 MARC: Were you locked in the room? 888 00:51:39,137 --> 00:51:40,180 DANIELA: No. 889 00:51:40,263 --> 00:51:41,556 MARC: So you could open the door 890 00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:44,518 and just walk out of the room whenever you wanted, right? 891 00:51:44,601 --> 00:51:46,394 DANIELA: No. That is not true. 892 00:51:46,478 --> 00:51:47,354 (DOOR SLAMS) 893 00:51:47,437 --> 00:51:48,522 MARC: Were you threatened 894 00:51:48,605 --> 00:51:50,774 with something happening to you if you left? 895 00:51:50,857 --> 00:51:54,861 DANIELA: I had no money, no papers, and I was threatened 896 00:51:54,945 --> 00:51:57,155 with both being sent back to Mexico 897 00:51:57,239 --> 00:51:59,866 and also threatened with being completely cut off 898 00:51:59,950 --> 00:52:01,368 from everyone I knew. 899 00:52:01,451 --> 00:52:03,829 MARC: And how old were you when you went in the room? 900 00:52:03,912 --> 00:52:06,498 DANIELA: I believe I was 24. 901 00:52:06,581 --> 00:52:08,291 MARC: So you could have left, right? 902 00:52:08,375 --> 00:52:09,501 You were 24 years old, 903 00:52:09,584 --> 00:52:12,170 and no one was forcing you to stay, correct? 904 00:52:12,796 --> 00:52:13,755 DANIELA: No. 905 00:52:13,839 --> 00:52:16,174 That is not an accurate statement. 906 00:52:16,258 --> 00:52:18,301 MARC: Your Honor, I have nothing else. 907 00:52:26,476 --> 00:52:28,979 MOIRA: The crimes that we charged 908 00:52:29,062 --> 00:52:31,231 don't require there to be 909 00:52:31,314 --> 00:52:33,817 any sort of physical imprisonment. 910 00:52:34,901 --> 00:52:36,194 Psychological coercion 911 00:52:36,278 --> 00:52:39,739 doesn't depend on a physically locked door. 912 00:52:41,741 --> 00:52:45,620 There were all of these fences that were keeping her in. 913 00:52:52,460 --> 00:52:55,297 Someone on the outside doesn't understand 914 00:52:55,380 --> 00:52:58,884 the years and years of manipulation 915 00:52:58,967 --> 00:53:01,261 we all experienced. 916 00:53:01,344 --> 00:53:03,430 You've got all these ideas that Keith implanted 917 00:53:03,513 --> 00:53:05,181 in your head... 918 00:53:05,265 --> 00:53:08,560 leading you to make the decision he wants you to make. 919 00:53:08,643 --> 00:53:10,312 The reason why Dani was in the room 920 00:53:10,395 --> 00:53:12,564 was because she didn't make the decisions 921 00:53:12,647 --> 00:53:13,899 Keith wanted her to make. 922 00:53:13,982 --> 00:53:16,484 ♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 923 00:53:16,568 --> 00:53:20,739 NANCY: It feels like he went after the whole family, 924 00:53:20,822 --> 00:53:23,366 which is similar to what he did to my family. 925 00:53:24,492 --> 00:53:26,328 But the parents weren't here. 926 00:53:29,706 --> 00:53:34,419 I can't tell you how sad I feel for Dani 927 00:53:34,502 --> 00:53:35,795 and what she went through. 928 00:53:36,755 --> 00:53:38,173 Even Marianna. 929 00:53:39,424 --> 00:53:43,011 I feel-- I feel horrible for all of them. 930 00:53:44,220 --> 00:53:47,641 But-- but I feel really sad for Camila 931 00:53:47,724 --> 00:53:50,226 because that should never have happened. 932 00:53:52,729 --> 00:53:56,191 She is probably one of the most damaged people 933 00:53:56,274 --> 00:53:57,484 by Keith Raniere. 934 00:53:58,318 --> 00:54:01,404 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 935 00:54:01,488 --> 00:54:03,657 REPORTER: The prosecution in the trial of NXIVM leader 936 00:54:03,740 --> 00:54:07,285 Keith Raniere produced 240 pages of text messages 937 00:54:07,369 --> 00:54:10,455 between one victim called Camila and Raniere. 938 00:54:11,957 --> 00:54:15,293 NANCY: Going into this, I thought Keith was innocent. 939 00:54:17,003 --> 00:54:20,340 But when I got to see the text thread 940 00:54:20,423 --> 00:54:22,342 between Camila and Keith... 941 00:54:24,469 --> 00:54:27,764 that was pretty much what flipped me totally 942 00:54:27,847 --> 00:54:30,684 to believe that Keith... 943 00:54:31,935 --> 00:54:34,562 had done some very bad things. 944 00:54:35,438 --> 00:54:36,648 I remember calling my attorney 945 00:54:36,731 --> 00:54:39,234 and telling him that I was wrong. 946 00:54:41,569 --> 00:54:46,282 -(KEYS CLACKING) -(CELLPHONE CHIMES) 947 00:54:48,743 --> 00:54:51,287 NANCY: These texts are the beginning of DOS. 948 00:54:51,371 --> 00:54:53,415 -(CELLPHONE CHIMES) -(KEYS CLACKING) 949 00:54:56,084 --> 00:54:57,502 (CELLPHONE CHIMES) 950 00:55:01,798 --> 00:55:05,176 ♪ ("REGRET" BY BONNIE PIESSE PLAYING) ♪ 951 00:55:05,260 --> 00:55:10,473 ♪ You played with my mind ♪ 952 00:55:10,557 --> 00:55:15,020 ♪ You shattered my soul ♪ 953 00:55:15,103 --> 00:55:20,066 ♪ It shall not be ♪ 954 00:55:20,150 --> 00:55:25,655 ♪ How can I forget ♪ 955 00:55:25,739 --> 00:55:30,118 ♪ A life of regret ♪ 956 00:55:30,201 --> 00:55:33,997 ♪ You destroyed me ♪ 957 00:55:35,290 --> 00:55:39,085 ♪ I was ♪ 958 00:55:39,169 --> 00:55:41,713 ♪ Dying for you ♪ 959 00:55:41,796 --> 00:55:48,595 ♪ And it felt like home ♪ 960 00:55:50,638 --> 00:55:56,144 ♪ I fell to my knees ♪ 961 00:55:56,227 --> 00:56:00,106 ♪ Lost in a dream ♪ 962 00:56:00,774 --> 00:56:04,152 ♪ I was spellbound ♪ 963 00:56:05,653 --> 00:56:09,157 ♪ You were ♪ 964 00:56:09,240 --> 00:56:12,744 ♪ A deadly addiction ♪ 965 00:56:12,827 --> 00:56:16,873 ♪ And I was ♪ 966 00:56:16,956 --> 00:56:19,542 ♪ Dying for you ♪ 967 00:56:19,626 --> 00:56:23,838 ♪ And it felt like ♪ 968 00:56:24,589 --> 00:56:26,424 ♪ Home ♪ 969 00:56:26,508 --> 00:56:27,675 ♪ (SONG CONCLUDES) ♪