One of the biggest issues in society today is punishment.
Some people believe in capital punishment
and some people don't believe in any punishment at all.
And what about justice? What is justice?
Justice, according to the dictionary, is fairness.
Justice is upholding one's ethics.
If you do not uphold an ethical principle,
the ethical principle ceases to exist.
Justice often requires making the hard choice
and punishing with integrity when necessary.
This inquiry will help you build an understanding
of what's fair and what's just,
so you'll gain a whole new perspective
on punishment and accountability.
♪ ("DREAM STATE" FT. BONNIE PIESSE BY SON LUX PLAYING) ♪
♪ Days we were young ♪
♪ We took photographs Of everything we could see ♪
♪ We had to run from it ♪
♪ Priest and prophetess We were ♪
♪ Nothing we would defy ♪
♪ Oh! Invisible skin ♪
♪ Where is the world within? ♪
♪ Invincible skin It's how we all begin ♪
♪ ("DREAM STATE" CONCLUDES) ♪
MOIRA PENZA: Over the course of the investigation...
I realized that Camila was key to this case.
We knew that there had been sexual interactions
between Keith and Camila,
but we did not have access to Camila.
So proving that through the WhatsApp chats
between Camila and Keith Raniere
became very important.
Keith Raniere's own words
were probably the most powerful evidence
that we had in the case against him.
TANYA HAJJAR: Good morning, Agent Rees.
-AGENT REES: Good morning. -TANYA: Where do you work?
REES: The Federal Bureau of Investigation.
My role was to review the electronic evidence.
TANYA: How many pages of these messages
-have you personally reviewed? -REES: Approximately 1500.
TANYA: And in terms of frequency of the messages you reviewed.
REES: Hundreds of messages a day.
MOIRA: Camila was in her early twenties
when these messages were exchanged,
but they had already had sexual contact for years.
TANYA: On August 24th, Raniere writes, "Are you free?"
(CAMILA READS MESSAGE)
(TANYA READS MESSAGE)
(CAMILA READS MESSAGE)
(TANYA READS MESSAGES)
(TANYA CONTINUES READING)
(TANYA STOPS READING)
NANCY SALZMAN: So let's see.
Raniere, "Make sure your sister doesn't see you texting."
"I just heard your father is now concerned.
We need to be very careful."
Her parents gave her permission to stay here
because he was going to mentor her.
And this is what he did instead.
I think that Camila is not testifying
because she may still be loyal to Keith.
I don't think she realizes how badly she was abused.
And I think the government doesn't know how to pose it
any other way than to show the texts,
allowing the jurors to come to their own conclusion.
(PEOPLE CHATTERING)
Are you in a-- Are you--
(CHATTERING CONTINUES)
Okay.
(CAMILA READS MESSAGE)
(TANYA READS MESSAGE)
(CAMILA READS MESSAGES)
(TANYA READING MESSAGES)
(TANYA STOPS READING)
TANYA: Agent Rees,
are these just some of the excerpts
relating to Robbie?
REES: Yes.
TANYA: And based on the messages exchanged,
did it indicate a kind of romantic
or sexual relationship between Camila and Robbie?
REES: Yes.
(TANYA READING MESSAGES)
(CAMILA READS MESSAGE)
(TANYA READS MESSAGE)
(CAMILA READS MESSAGE)
(TANYA READS MESSAGE)
(CAMILA READS MESSAGE)
(TANYA READING MESSAGE)
(CAMILA READS MESSAGE)
(TANYA READS MESSAGE)
Um...
(SIGHS)
Keith, uh, saved all the WhatsApp messages
for history. And, um, you know...
They're-- Obviously, they're intimate.
They're-- The government, you know,
cherry-picked and picked the ones that they
thought were best for them.
The problem with this case,
and the problem with this afternoon,
none of that's charged. None of it's charged.
You know, it's all cosmetic.
You know, and, uh, and it has an effect on everybody,
but it's not what's charged.
EMILY SAUL: The content of this trial is so ridiculous.
We're looking at messages allegedly from Keith Raniere,
where he's asking her how, like, long
and, like, the width of this man's penis is.
And then saying that, like, his is bigger.
And then her responding, you know,
well, you haven't been, like, fully erect in a while,
or, like, you haven't been your full self in a while.
And it's just sort of like...
I...
Why?
Why are we looking at these?
The government is using agents to get in
what should be brought in through witnesses.
It's sort of like their way of getting in
all of the abuse that happened to Camila,
and the way she was manipulated by Raniere
without the defense being able to cross examine
any of these statements.
MOIRA: The WhatsApp chats really gave the jury insight
into this point in time where Keith Raniere
is losing control over the women in his life.
He had experienced
what had happened with Daniela already.
Now he had Camila,
who he thought would never betray him,
had had a sexual experience with another man.
And DOS provided this way of keeping that control.
(CAMILA READING MESSAGES)
(TANYA READING MESSAGES)
(TANYA STOPS READING)
NANCY: Camila writes,
"What do you want me to do?"
And he writes,
"Trust me 100 percent.
Any failure is unacceptable. You have to earn me.
I need a vow of absolute obedience."
Camila writes,
"I can't do it, love. Please don't be mad."
And then he writes, uh,
"If I don't get what I want, I want you out."
Camila writes,
"I'm fearful that you will abuse the power."
And he writes,
"If it never seemed questionable,
it wouldn't be trust. Do it now."
Camila says, "I vow to do as you say."
So she's 24 at this point that he's asking for this vow.
And now he wants her to be his slave.
So he came up with this idea in 2014, I guess.
This is the beginning of DOS, I guess.
(CAMILA READS MESSAGE)
(TANYA READS MESSAGE)
(CAMILA READS MESSAGE)
(TANYA READS MESSAGE)
(TANYA CONTINUES READING)
(CAMILA READS MESSAGE)
(TANYA READS MESSAGE)
(CAMILA READS MESSAGE)
(TANYA READS MESSAGE)
(CAMILA READS MESSAGE)
MOIRA: Keith Raniere's defense was that
DOS was intended as something good,
that this was intended as women's empowerment.
Having those communications where he actually says to Camila
that she should be grooming
someone for him. These were very key facts,
and key evidence to proving our case.
(TANYA READS MESSAGE)
(CAMILA READING MESSAGES)
(TANYA READS MESSAGE)
(CAMILA READS MESSAGE)
KEITH RANIERE: Abuse is a made-up human construct.
The thing, for example, with sexual abuse.
In some states, it's their ages. There's the age of consent.
Some states it's 17. Some parts of the world it's 12.
So what's abuse in one area is not abuse in another,
but what is it really?
Abuse is, does the person-- Is the person a child?
Or is the person adult-like?
Does the person, um,
have a certain type of understanding
of cognition, morality to make such a choice?
Often, when you counsel people who were, say,
children of what you call abuse, you know, the little child...
Some little children are perfectly happy with it,
until they find out what happened later in life.
"In other words, at the time they didn't know it was bad.
They didn't know anything about it was bad.
Later they grow up, and they find out
that it was actually something that was bad.
In that case, is it more society that's abusing them?
Because society says it's bad, but they didn't know it was bad.
In other societies in the past, like in Rome,
standards were completely different.
But we are not in Rome, and we should know that."
You want me to comment on it now?
Yeah.
Um...
When I look at it now...
I have certain feelings about...
it that I didn't...
have then.
Um...
This is a concept that Keith brought up twice.
Maybe three times.
Certainly, it's being taken out of context.
It was a whole series of different things.
But I feel a lot of remorse that I read that.
January 3rd, 2005, this was created.
Camila was about 15 that year.
There are very few parts of the curriculum
that I think intentionally were put in there...
to-- to-- to promote Keith's...
beliefs, or his own behaviors, or whatever.
That I think probably was.
That intensive,
he addresses the darkest parts of humanity.
And there were a lot of thought experiments
where we go into in great detail, what is abuse?
How do you define abuse?
It leaves you to be able to figure out
what you think about these concepts.
So when we came down to age of consent,
it just seemed like another thought experiment to me.
It never occurred to me
that he was having a relationship with Camila.
And it is abuse to ask a child to make a decision
that they can't possibly make
because they don't understand what it will mean.
TANYA: Agent Rees, have you also reviewed photographs?
REES: I have.
TANYA: And is it fair to say that some of these
are graphically nude photographs of Camila?
REES: Yes, they are.
(TANYA READS MESSAGE)
(CAMILA READS MESSAGES)
(TANYA READS MESSAGE)
(CAMILA READS MESSAGE)
(TANYA READS MESSAGE)
Keith Raniere does like keeping photographs.
I think it's trophies for him.
And so, once we knew about
the picture taking, the picture keeping,
it was a matter of finding those.
And when we did,
I mean, that is game-changing evidence.
We've been hearing about images of Camila
that are sexually explicit, taken when she was underage.
And finally today, jurors saw those in the courtroom.
The FBI agent, like, opened up the binder,
and sort of very, like, solemnly and stoically
flipped through 18 photos.
It was a very dramatic, very silent presentation,
which the jurors really reacted to.
They seemed to have a really hard time with these images.
I'm feeling sick.
You know, like a part of me is thinking,
"Oh, my God, how could you ever--
have ever loved this man?"
You know, and he's a monster, and how did he conceal this?
It's appalling, and it's disgusting.
I'm a very forgiving person.
And I'm having a hard time...
finding that forgiveness for him right now.
He stole her childhood.
Camila was victimized at an earlier age
than anyone else in this case.
At a time when her family
was already completely indoctrinated.
That being said, she became a predator herself,
and she is part of one of the most serious
DOS related crimes
that we charged, the sex trafficking of Nicole,
who was one of the last victims to testify at the trial.
NEWS ANCHOR 1: After five weeks of dramatic testimony,
the trial of Keith Raniere enters its final week.
NEWS ANCHOR 2: A former DOS member named Nicole,
giving her testimony.
Allison Mack was her direct superior
and also her mentor in her acting career.
EMILY: Nicole was Keith's perfect woman.
She had long hair. She was beautiful.
She was a bartender in New York City,
found by Allison Mack, and then groomed for Keith.
-MOIRA: Good afternoon, Nicole. -NICOLE: Good afternoon.
MOIRA: When did you first join The Source?
ALLISON MACK: Yes, it's an acting curriculum,
but there's so much more to this,
because what you learn is the art of life,
and how to be a true student of that.
NICOLE: I started to get involved with The Source
in 2015,
but honestly, my life was not that great.
I was really struggling.
Allison said she had something
that she thought would fix how I was feeling,
but she said that if I wanted to get more information,
I would have to provide collateral.
By that point, Allison had been mentoring me
in The Source for a while.
She had taken me under her wing, so I-- I definitely trusted her.
MOIRA: What were your initial experiences with DOS like?
NICOLE: In the beginning,
Allison was very attentive and loving.
One morning, Allison said, "I have an assignment for you."
MOIRA: One of the most serious charges in the case
was sex trafficking,
based on evidence that Nicole was coerced
into engaging in commercial sex with Keith Raniere.
Because Nicole's sex acts with Keith Raniere
ultimately provided a benefit, um, to Allison Mack
in the form of her increased status
with Keith Raniere.
I'm Allison Mack. I'm the president of The Source.
I'm excited to welcome you on this journey.
NANCY: Someone can go from victim
to perpetrator very quickly.
Take Allison Mack.
In many ways, Allison didn't have
a real experience growing up.
She was an actress from the time
she was four or five.
She didn't have a normal reality.
Just because everyone else chooses to ignore
the strange things that happen in this leafy little hamlet
doesn't mean that they don't happen.
NANCY: She's a spiritual kind of being.
She believed in tantric yoga.
It is a sexual path to enlightenment.
Now, if you look at Allison,
she is a beautiful, beautiful woman.
But Allison, like a lot of women,
had a lot of insecurities sexually.
And Allison truly believed
Keith was going to dedicate himself
to helping her through her sexual issues.
Now, that may sound crazy to you...
but that is what Allison believed.
We can use our body as a tool to access emotions,
and the more flexible our body can be,
we may have more flexibility
-in our emotions. -Yeah.
NANCY: And then he convinced her to find other women
who could do the program.
KEITH: Uh,
ALLISON: Mm-hmm.
KEITH: Uh-huh.
ALLISON: Uh-huh.
(BOTH LAUGH)
(KEITH CHUCKLES)
(LAUGHS) That's--
(KEITH CHUCKLES)
Allison was jealous of Keith having sex with other women,
and she felt that she was overcoming her problem...
by allow-- by... by promoting this in other women.
So, like, here he sets up a thing where he says,
"How can you keep my work all to yourself?
What's wrong with you? You're such a narcissist."
And Allison is like, "Oh, no, no, no.
I don't wanna be a narcissist, but I am so jealous."
"Well, we're going to work it through."
"We experience our love not needing return.
We no longer need to receive love to love.
We are humble...
(CHUCKLES)
...and without pride."
NANCY: And now, is Allison a perpetrator?
Or is Allison a victim?
Well, Allison is a victim who was sent out to do something
that she believed was good,
because she believed Keith was good.
And that is how he did it.
MOIRA So, Nicole,
how did Allison introduce this assignment to you?
NICOLE: One day before a walk,
she told me to go outside and tell Keith
that I would do anything that he asked me to do.
I went outside, and he was waiting
out the back door of Allison's house.
(BREATHES DEEPLY)
I was telling myself,
"You can do this, you can do this."
And eventually I said,
"I will do anything you ask me to do."
He took my hand,
and took me into the house across the street.
He pointed to these two blindfolds
that were there, and told me to put them on.
He put me inside a car, and then we drove somewhere.
When we eventually stopped, he came around,
took my hand, and took me through the woods.
I remember stepping up on, like, a step or two,
and then walking through what seemed like a front door.
(DOOR CREAKS OPEN, CLOSES)
When we got inside, he told me to undress.
Then he led me to a table, and told me to lay back on it.
Then he tied my wrists
and my feet to two different corners of the table.
And deep down, I was hoping that was it.
But that was not the end.
All of a sudden, I felt someone going down on me.
First, I thought it was Keith,
but while I was trying to process what was happening,
-Keith started talking. -KEITH: Going from...
NICOLE: So I was like, holy shit,
there's someone else in the room.
It was absolutely terrifying.
And just at that moment, I felt long hair,
which made me feel a tiny bit safer
that it was a woman and not another man in the room.
Eventually, the oral sex stopped.
He said what had just happened was not bad.
And I just said, "Can I go?" And he said, "Yes,
but don't tell anyone what had happened."
EMILY: It turns out that the person who was
performing oral sex on Nicole was Cami.
And I recall upon learning that,
feeling, you know, additionally horrified,
but also realizing that
that's why Cami wasn't a participant in the trial.
She had been turned into a victimizer by Keith.
And so that's just a whole next level of-- of fucked up.
Seeing the progression for Camila
from this teenage girl
to becoming this woman willing to do very bad things
for Keith Raniere was powerful, um, to a jury.
Keith Raniere victimized women,
and then put them in the role of being victimizers.
(CAMILA LAUGHS)
At that point, I felt that we had proven the case.
♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
MARC AGNIFILO: It's the evening before the summations.
Keith basically said, he's putting his faith in me.
He says I'm resourceful and talented, and,
you know, he's going to put his faith in me.
I think the only way that we really
can open this jury's minds and their hearts
to Keith's view of things
is to go right at the worst stuff.
NEWS ANCHOR 1: Closing arguments wrapping up in what has been
an intense case against alleged cult leader, Keith Raniere.
NEWS ANCHOR 2: A federal prosecutor says
Keith Raniere is a con man and a crime boss.
But defense attorneys say,
any sexual encounters Raniere may have had
with members of his self-help group called NXIVM,
were consensual.
NEWS ANCHOR 3: The fate of NXIVM leader, Keith Raniere,
now in the hands of the jury.
The jury began their deliberations
just before 9:30 this morning.
Now, there's no telling exactly how long
the jury will take for that verdict.
What do you predict? How long do you think?
The U.S. Marshals have said that
based on their experience, it's not going to be today.
They said at the earliest, tomorrow.
In this particular case,
let's say, we're in the seventh week.
We're supposed to have six days of deliberations. I doubt it.
(CELL PHONE BUZZES)
Uh, the CSO just poked his head in
and said we might want to come upstairs.
Oh, fuck!
♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
(PANTING, LAUGHING)
It's gonna be good, it's gonna be good.
I can feel it. (LAUGHS)
♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪
♪ (MUSIC STOPS) ♪
NEWS ANCHOR 1: A federal jury in Brooklyn
today found NXIVM leader Keith...
NEWS ANCHOR 2: Keith Raniere was found guilty on all counts,
including sex trafficking, and racketeering.
NEWS ANCHOR 3: Guilty of racketeering,
guilty of conspiracy,
wire fraud, and sex trafficking.
-MARK VICENTE: Right. -Right.
Fucking, like, one after the other, man.
NEWS ANCHOR 4: The mood out here on the streets of Brooklyn
can best be described as jubilant and celebratory.
Every single woman who came forward
to tell their horror stories feels vindication.
NEWS ANCHOR 5: Some people have been waiting decades
to get justice against Keith Raniere.
I still can't believe all counts guilty.
I still-- That's, like, breathtaking.
-What's up? -SARAH EDMONSON: Oh, my God.
MARK: I don't know how I feel yet.
It was fucking surreal.
It's my belief that the judge will give him
a very, very heavy sentence.
But you do realize what this means, right?
Like, we can change our life now.
These crimes ruined marriages, careers,
fortunes, and lives.
Keith Raniere's crime spree has ended,
and his victims will finally see justice.
Thank you.
(SPECTATORS APPLAUDING, CHEERING)
SPECTATOR: Thank you!
(CHEERING CONTINUES)
(SPECTATORS WHISTLE)
(CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING)
Uh, no, not the result we were hoping for. Um...
A win in the sentence.
That's-- It's a-- That's a ...a strange place to be,
I mean, you know, but I think it's the rare defendant
that should not have the glimmer of hope of one day living life
as a free man, even an elderly free man.
Keith maintains his innocence. He does plan on appealing,
and we do think we have
some substantial grounds, um, for an appeal.
♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
AUTOMATED VOICE: You have a prepaid call.
This call is from...
-KEITH: Raniere. -(PHONE LINE BEEPS)
(FLASHLIGHT CLICKS)
NICKI CLYNE: If we don't expose the injustices
that have happened against him,
he will go to jail, and he will most likely be killed.
I know he's innocent,
and I will fight till I die to prove it.
When you are being attacked,
and it's not just you,
it's like your-- it's your community.
Yes, there are people who will just
run for their lives.
I wouldn't be able to live with myself
if I just cared about my own survival.
It's not the kind of world I spent
15 years of my life trying to build.
(BIRDS CHIRPING)
(FOOTSTEPS APPROACHING)
NANCY: A lot of the people who continue to follow Keith...
if they acknowledge that they were wrong about Keith...
then they have to look at...
how wrong they were.
(BIRDS CHIRPING)
NANCY: It's like pulling out the rug
that holds your foundation together.
If you're this wrong, can you really trust yourself?
♪ (MELLOW MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
-NICKI: It's so hard to leave. -Yes, it is.
So, whose husband is he? Yours or Michele?
It's, uh, not my husband, but my partner.
-Partner? -NICKI: Yeah, yeah.
I mean, he's pre-sentence.
Uh, it's-- it's a bullshit case. So we're doing everything we can
to get the truth out and get him out.
NICKI: If I did what my lawyer advised me to do,
I'd be living with my mom in Canada,
and not talking to any of my friends.
I mean, I was pursued by the federal government
for two years.
Um,
there's a possibility they may still arrest me
because I'm doing this.
But at this point,
Keith's sentencing is coming up,
and we have to do something.
-(PAPERS RUSTLING) -EDUARDO ASUNSOLO: Okay.
Yeah, so, dude, so we're--
we're going to be serving the affidavit today.
Yeah, "holy shit" is right.
We're going to serve the prosecutors
in Keith's case with the affidavit.
NICKI: Keith talked all about the affidavit
with Suneel, over months and months.
It lays out statements
that any prosecutor should be able to affirm.
KEITH: We didn't tamper with evidence.
NICKI: I did not lie to the court.
I did not lie to the public.
Basically, give this person a fair trial.
MICHELE HATCHETTE: The goal is to get
the sentencing dismissed
by putting pressure on the judge
through the media. You know, that should be cause enough
for the judge to say, "You know what?
We need to put sentencing off."
-SUPPORTER: Hey! -SUNEEL: That's great. Okay.
-Shall we roll, guys? -MARC ELLIOT: Let's roll.
-It's time? -MARC: Let's do it.
NICKI: We are going to Moira Penza's office
to deliver the affidavit to her.
So we're trying to make it so that we all go up.
MICHELE: Or Nicki and I can go.
I mean, yeah. My...
I want to go. I-- Strategically, I don't want to fuck myself.
That's the only thing, like...
Yeah, we're just downstairs.
We wanted to deliver a document to the firm.
MOIRA: So I got a call from
an employee in my New York office,
who said that there was
somebody asking to go upstairs at our offices.
-VOICE ON PHONE: Who is it? -Yes, it's Eduardo.
MOIRA: A person I knew to be a member of NXIVM
is in my lobby trying to get upstairs.
With COVID, I'm one of the only people
who goes into my New York office.
So the idea that that was happening was frightening.
I sent a cease and desist email to Marc Agnifilo that night,
letting him know that if anyone else
from NXIVM came to my office at Keith Raniere's direction,
that I would be taking additional steps
to protect my safety.
SUNEEL: You could text it to her.
NICKI: Or her email. You're sending her
an email, right? SUNEEL: Subject line,
"Will you support public accountability?"
-There you go. -NICKI: That's nicer, yeah.
I think we really don't want,
in any way, to come across as threatening or--
Well, it literally says
"dirty prosecution" on our website.
I don't even know how to describe it, frankly.
(LAUGHS NERVOUSLY) I mean, it's-- it's a...
I've never seen such a document,
or anything like that in any other case.
I mean, every single day that we stood up in court,
everything was done with so much process.
I mean, Keith Raniere had the best defense money can buy.
All of this is, is a sideshow,
and this is exactly how Keith Raniere operates.
And this is just more manipulation
by Keith Raniere and his followers.
-Ready to go? -Ready to go!
-Do it! -Sent!
Okay, let's get an email out to the press, ASAP.
-Let's go. -EDUARDO: Vámonos.
MICHELE: Whoo! Tonight's going to be lit.
-(CAR HORN BLARING) -(BASS-HEAVY TECHNO PLAYING)
(PRISONERS CHEERING, WHISTLING)
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES PLAYING) ♪
(BASS-HEAVY TECHNO FADING)
♪ (TENDER ORCHESTRAL MUSIC) ♪
SUNEEL:
♪ (MUSIC BUILDS) ♪
(BASS-HEAVY TECHNO RESUMES)
♪ (BASS-HEAVY TECHNO MUSIC FADES) ♪
(EXHALES HEAVILY)
Um...
I just got an email from...
my lawyer saying he, uh, can't defend me anymore.
♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
Uh, he says that I've engaged in too many actions
contrary to his advice.
I'm-- (VOICE CRACKS) I'm just shocked.
(INHALES DEEPLY)
(EXHALES)
(BIRDS TWEETING)
(CAT PURRING)
(PURRS)
NANCY: I'm waiting for my sentencing.
Lauren and I will be sentenced after Keith.
I'm scared for Lauren, and I'm scared for me.
And so, I'm going home to see my parents.
When I was working with Keith,
I was very committed to what I was doing,
and I would work until I fell into bed at night.
And I didn't see my parents a lot.
And part of the reason I didn't see my parents
was because...
he didn't like when I wasn't focused on my work.
When all of-- everything started to fall apart,
I started to come home more, and I realized that my parents
were not doing well.
I mean, who has their parents at 91 and 92?
I don't want to give you
something sweet to eat with your coffee
like you usually have
because I want to make these eggs
that are very unique,
and I think you're going to like them. And some bagels?
So we'll eat bagels and eggs in a little bit.
I am the boss. That's right, I'm the boss.
-Nancy's my boss. -(NANCY LAUGHS)
NANCY: I feel like every minute I have is like a gift.
-Nancy? -NANCY: Yeah.
-Can I have the computer? -NANCY: Yes.
When my father was in the hospital, he almost died.
Let me fix your pillow. It doesn't look good.
-I like that. -You like that?
How about this little one?
I love this little pillow for you. Instead of this.
I asked the doctor if I could take him home to die.
And when he came home
and I started taking care of him, he got better.
-Yeah, that's good. -That's good?
-NANCY'S FATHER: Okay. -Okay, perfect. That was good.
I would give you an E for excellent.
-NANCY: An E for excellent. -(BOTH LAUGH)
NANCY: Being in his own surroundings
and being with his wife, is why he's alive.
I'm certain that they won't survive
if they go into a nursing facility.
And if I go to jail, they have to.
So I just got this from my lawyer.
This is the sentencing date schedule.
"Delaying until after the holidays
is not a problem at all.
I hope Miss Salzman is able to enjoy her holidays at least."
So that's nice.
Or maybe she means, at least. I don't know what she means.
"I mostly want to confirm the info
that Miss Salzman provided. And also,
if you're comfortable with her discussing
her personal relationships,
I think it would be useful for the court
to put Miss Salzman's personal relationship
with Mr. Raniere in context."
So best case scenario, obviously, is...
you're not going to jail. (LAUGHS)
I can't even believe these words are coming out of my mouth.
You're not going to jail. Worst case is anything else.
(LAUGHS) For me.
You know, my biggest concern is that
if I go to jail, somebody has to take care of my parents.
And that's the scariest part for me.
-Hello. -NANCY'S MOM: These yours?
-NANCY: No, they're yours. -Whose are they?
NANCY: They're yours.
-I don't think so. -NANCY: Yeah, they're yours.
I think we should be talking about this right now.
I never talk about this in front of her.
Just so you guys know. Never.
It will not be until it's about to happen,
that it'll be a discussion.
(SNIFFS)
Was she listening? Okay. 'Cause she does.
♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
There's something I've never told people.
But I think I have to say...
it's very hard.
My lawyers told me I should write a letter to the judge.
I'm going to read you parts of it.
"So in the early days, I was totally honest with Keith.
So he learned a lot about my depression.
I told him about my relationship problems,
and Keith instructed me
not to get into another relationship
until I work my dependency issues.
Then he became very affectionate toward me,
and made sexual advances.
He did not force me in any way.
It was a very brief sexual relationship.
He abruptly ended our physical relationship,
and he asked me to commit
to never beginning another relationship
with anyone or getting involved with another man
without discussing it with him first."
♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪
So I just...
I never had another relationship for 20 years.
(SIGHS)
Buried myself in my work.
I think I felt tremendous shame.
I didn't sleep with a lot of people in my life.
It's not like that was something I did...
but there was always this...
thing where he had all these relationships,
but he didn't with me. And it wasn't that I wanted to
have a relationship with him, but it always was like,
why did he do that to me? And I always felt ashamed of it.
And he never wanted anyone to know.
But it felt worse when he started having sex
with my daughter.
(SEAGULLS SQUAWKING)
(CAR HORN HONKS)
(NICKI HUMMING)
(TRILLS LIPS)
This is always my problem. Nothing.
The media, we hope, will expose the injustices
in Keith's case.
So we have our first on-camera interview
with a major news outlet.
It's a big deal.
NIKKI BATTISTE: Mark, Suneel, Eduardo,
Michele, and Nicki have not spoken publicly
about their time in NXIVM until now.
Raise your hand if you are or were a member of DOS.
-During Raniere's trial... -This is not good for her.
...a former member of DOS said she was a recruiter for Raniere.
We're not denying that certain things,
uh, took place. There's evidence that certain things happened.
How they happened, why they happened,
and why certain people chose them,
that's a whole other conversation.
Were women in DOS
having sexual relations with Keith?
Did either of you have sexual relations with Keith?
We want to talk about DOS.
-That's a yes or no question. -Yeah.
And I just want to step back a little bit,
because, you know, if I went up to you and I asked you,
"How many people have you had sex with?"
It's none of my business.
NIKKI: On Friday, the group delivered
an affidavit to prosecutors
asking them to affirm they acted ethically.
Federal prosecutors declined to comment on the allegations
and the affidavit, but they shared a court filing
containing emails that appear to show Keith Raniere
helped orchestrate the affidavit from prison.
A lawyer representing dozens of Raniere's victims
calls the affidavit "a publicity stunt."
I don't know what to say to that.
-It's not going to end well. -SARAH: Nope.
'Cause they're just lying
in order to maintain their narrative.
They have to make so many people's truth,
abuse, and stories, fiction.
And there's a Mount Everest of intel,
that they just have to attack the process
of the courts
and attack the character of the people.
Rather than refute seven counts, convicted.
Yeah. They couldn't even answer the questions.
They can't. They don't.
And that's why they're having their trial outside the trial.
NEWS ANCHOR: Only on CBS This Morning, Nikki Battiste
spoke with supporters of the Raniere and they claim
he should not have been convicted in the first place.
If you could go back, would you still have
been involved with Keith and NXIVM?
Yeah. I wouldn't trade any of my experiences for anything.
NEWS ANCHOR: Federal pro--
I haven't seen Nicki in years, but for whatever reason,
she can't see that this isn't good for her.
I think she's in a battle with her own mind
I think all of the people who are still loyal to him
are having an internal struggle.
So these people have some belief
that he didn't do anything bad.
What I've heard is, "I never had a bad experience with Keith"
and therefore, it's like saying,
"I never had a bad experience you know, in the ocean,
so it's impossible I could drown."
"I never had a bad experience with Keith Raniere personally
and my experience is my experience."
And I say to them,
"And my experience is my experience."
Most mornings he would come over,
and I would make him breakfast.
He would stay, like, a while.
And he'd get a bunch of calls from all of these people.
Hello.
And he would tell them all he was at my house.
They must have thought he was working...
but he was never working.
He was usually laying on my couch after he ate.
He came to my house on this particular morning,
and he said, "I need you to do something."
And I said, "What?" And he said...
"Pam had an accident.
Would you change the bed?"
Pam was wasting away.
You know what people look like when they're dying of cancer?
It was very clear she was dying.
And I said, "Of course." I mean, I'm a nurse.
And I started asking questions.
"You don't have to go right now, it's okay."
And I said, "Well, if she's in a wet bed,
let me go change it. I don't want her to get a bedsore.
She can't get out of bed." And he said,
"She's fine. Make me breakfast."
So I made him breakfast, and then,
as he was eating, I said, "Why don't I go now?"
"No," he said, "You can sit and talk with me."
So I thought it wasn't, like, an urgent thing.
I get there...
and she had defecated...
all over herself, and he let her stay in that
while he ate breakfast in my house.
I felt so upset
that he would let her stay that way.
And she was out of it.
She was really out of it.
She wasn't unconscious. Her eyes kept opening,
but they were kind of unfocused.
And I said, "We have to call an ambulance. She's dying."
It wasn't the same after that with me, with him.
He doesn't care about any of us. It was very clear to me.
This bottle is very valuable to me right now
because I'm thirsty and there's water in it.
But when I'm not thirsty, I can just put it down and walk away.
That's how Keith treated us.
People are utilities to Keith.
That's it.
-♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ -(SIRENS WAILING)
AUTOMATIC VOICE: You have a prepaid call.
This call is from...
KEITH: Raniere.
(PHONE BEEPS)
NICKI: We're meeting with a journalist,
and as far as I know, she's a freelancer.
But the bylines that I saw were with Rolling Stone
and The New Republic.
Hopefully, she can be someone who can
bring a counterweight
to the hate that we're experiencing.
AMANDA ROBB: Talk to me about your story.
NICKI: Right now, there's so much salaciousness,
scandal, like, all of this bullshit
that-- like, even the word "cult,"
like, what is that? What is a sex cult?
We want brave journalists that want to cover it with us.
AMANDA: I think that-- I personally--
No one is going to buy the story
that you guys want to tell right now.
It's just not going to happen.
There is an article to be written about
how you guys are going to rebuild your lives now.
Like, you are obviously people that need to be
part of something bigger than yourselves.
And you are still very much in the middle of that process.
Keith hasn't been sentenced...
and I imagine you guys are going to have to figure out
what you're doing for work, who you're going to be,
what your intimate relationships are going to be,
how you're going to live,
how you're going to support yourself.
I'm willing to go on that journey with you,
but if you want that kind of story told,
that's what it's going to take.
NEWS ANCHOR 1: Happening tomorrow,
sentencing day for disgraced Upstate New York's
self-improvement guru.
NEWS ANCHOR 2: Keith Raniere was convicted
of turning women into sex slaves in his NXIVM organization.
NEWS ANCHOR 3: A judge will consider impact statements
from over 100 victims.
(NANCY GASPS)
Camila is going to appear at Keith's sentencing,
and she filed a victim statement.
The government expects that Camila will attend
Raniere's sentencing on October 27th,
and may wish to address the court further at that time.
That's amazing.
I'm a bit shocked.
I never thought she would turn.
I thought that she was still supporting him.
♪ (GENTLE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
NANCY: I think this is going to
impact the ones he does have left.
It has to.
Yeah, when I read the filing about...
um, Cami being at the sentencing...
I was shocked.
So, I don't... I imagine it's going to be very damaging.
♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
Yeah, I feel sick to my stomach pretty much all the time.
And...
Yeah, I don't know. I think today in particular,
I just feel... more. I think that sometimes
the work can be a bit of a distraction
from why we're doing it in the first place, and...
um, from feeling the pain of what's happened
to our friends.
And... sometimes it catches up with you.
♪ (MUSIC FADING) ♪
NEWS ANCHOR: Convicted sex cult leader,
Keith Raniere, is expected to be sentenced.
NEWS ANCHOR 2: The charges he was convicted of include
racketeering, sex trafficking, sexual exploitation of a child.
NEWS ANCHOR 3: Federal prosecutors have asked that
Raniere face life in prison. However, his defense lawyers say
that something like 15 years would more suit his crime.
NEWS ANCHOR 4: Today in court, he will be listening to hours
of statements from some of his victims
and to a judge who could put him away for good.
MARC: It might be the hardest day of my professional career.
Keith ends almost every one of our meetings,
"My life is in your hands."
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
JUDGE: This is the sentencing of Keith Raniere,
who was convicted by a jury of numerous counts.
We have victim statements that will be made
either in person, or by video or audio.
You may proceed when you are ready.
VERO JASPEADO: I was used and manipulated for ten years.
Ten years that I just can't recover.
My innocence and my strong will to better things
in the world was used against me.
You used to tell me the antidote for pride
is humiliation.
The most productive humiliation
is obtained through obedience, and it leads to true freedom.
Well, now you have that opportunity in your hands.
DANIELA: You abused my innocent body,
you broke my able mind,
and you set my family against me.
I survived, but not because you were merciful,
but because I was resilient.
I find relief in knowing that this is over.
I find relief in forgetting about you.
And this is the last time you will hold my attention.
And last, as the court sentences Keith Raniere,
I would like to remind them that he showed me no mercy.
He showed my little sister no mercy.
He deserves no mercy.
CAMILA: Good morning, Your Honor. My name is Camila
and I'm ready to retain my voice and to stand up for myself.
I met him when I was just 13.
The first time I was left to have a conversation
alone with him,
we talked about how I placed second
in my eighth grade spelling bee contest.
He first had sex with me on September 18th, 2005.
I was 15. He was 45.
He would often take me to his executive library.
During these secret meetings, when I was still 15,
he took naked pictures of me.
The experience of being photographed is seared
into my memory.
As a 15-year-old,
this is not something you easily forget.
We had sexual contact during every meeting we ever had.
When he took the photos, it was no exception.
When I walked away, I had the mind of a 15-year-old,
and the body of a 27-year-old.
Your Honor, there is no outcome where I get the time back
and the opportunity that is lost.
I ask the court to take my 12 years of abuse,
and effects of that abuse,
that I continue to experience today,
into consideration in sentencing him.
JUDGE: Are you ready to be sentenced?
Please stand.
Nippy!
One-twenty. What does that mean?
A hundred and twenty years?
A hundred and twenty years! A hundred and twenty years!
NEWS ANCHOR: That's right, Dina, Raniere got 120 years.
And as you said, that means he will serve life in prison.
DAN LEVY: Judge Nick Garaufis
didn't just throw the book at Keith Raniere,
he threw the entire New York Metropolitan Library at him.
SUSAN DONES: A hundred and twenty years.
Maybe he'll get a few years off for good behavior.
(LAUGHS)
This is a 20 year book, and this is the last chapter of the book.
And when I leave here today, that book is closing.
This was like your purpose. This is why it'll happen.
And for so many people, like,
so many people before me. And that's the irony of it all
is that Keith, when we were joining,
saying women are going to change the world.
(EXHALES)
It is a tragic day for all of us.
We believe that today's greatest victim is due process,
which affects us all.
Because if someone or society ever turns on you,
you better hope to God,
that due process and laws
are still standing to protect you.
(CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING)
(SHUTTERS CLICKING)
FRANK PARLATO: I personally would like to see
his loyal followers ultimately realize he was a fraud.
An exquisite fraud. A brilliant fraud
who could persuade people that he was a saint.
When in reality, he is a, um... a deviant.
We still have some sentencing. Allison, Lauren, Nancy.
Maybe for everyone but Keith, there's a potential of a future.
♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
NANCY: He got 120 years, Mom.
NANCY: Nobody, that's the point.
NANCY'S MOM:
NANCY: I know, that's okay, Mom.
(LAUGHS)
NANCY: It's not okay, he got 120 years. And you were right.
NANCY: Yeah.
(SIGHS) My mother is angry.
She sees what it did to Lauren, and me.
She has a right to be angry.
I know how I feel about my children.
(TUTS) Hmm.
Whistleblowers, Mark Vicente, former top recruiter,
and Sarah Edmondson addressed the court via video.
I really want to see what they said.
MARK: Your Honor, beyond Keith Raniere's crimes
as documented in your court,
there are moral crimes this man has committed.
Keith Raniere,
-you made us believe... -Okay.
...we were constantly failing a standard
you are wholly incapable of meeting yourself.
You just wanted to destabilize our psyches as much as possible,
so that in our growing psychosis you would be the savior,
watching us get worse and worse.
He has stolen hundreds of years from all his victims,
and he needs to be held accountable.
NANCY: It's really terrible.
(SNIFFS)
It's the weirdest feeling 'cause at times I want
to defend the good that he did,
but he couldn't have done the evil
if he hadn't done the good.
So did he do the good so he could do the evil?
I don't know. But maybe that's true.
Maybe he only did the good so we would believe in him,
so he could do this. I don't know what to believe.
(SNIFFS)
MARC: Keith undoubtedly believes that his work
with NXIVM is good and I think it's helped a lot of people.
But our decision to not call witnesses in Keith's trial,
was not so much that we didn't want to call witnesses,
or we didn't think that the defense would be aided
by calling witnesses, I think it's quite the opposite.
Um, we... we went to several different countries,
and interviewed hundreds of people
to be witnesses in this case,
and we got what I think was good information.
But when it came time to actually,
you know, travel to Brooklyn,
enter that courtroom, sit in the witness chair...
uh, it was... not a lot of people wanted to do that.
After Keith's sentencing, I said, you know, "Keith,
this was a fascinating debate
and maybe even a debate that we win until...
you have allegations of, you know, underage sex,
and pornography, and then you don't get to be
a participant in the debate anymore.
And no one's going to listen to your viewpoint the same way."
And it's tragic that that's the way it all
kind of unfolded because I think NXIVM was legitimate.
(BIRDS TWEETING)
DIANE BENSCOTER: It's gonna take you some time to heal.
This is the piece that
I really hope that you can articulate,
how psychological manipulation is self-perpetuating.
You were used for the things you were good at,
and for how he could control you.
And here's an important thing.
The curriculum and the way the organization was built,
was clearly to take control over people's lives.
You know?
It... it was designed to control people.
Now that is not what you believed, I'm sure.
That is not what you believe today, probably.
Well, I don't know that the curriculum did it
as much as Keith did it.
Because, you know, there were 17,000 people unaffected,
and had good experiences with the curriculum.
People came to courses, left.
In and-- Like, there was none of that in that.
Yeah. It's... (EXHALES)
...one of the main tactics that is hallmark
of psychological manipulation
is to tear someone down, but then have the answer
for how they can fix themselves.
-That was him. -That's cooked in
to the trainings that you designed, in a way.
It's--
And he, I think, understood that.
(SIGHS)
-Well, thank you for your help. -All right.
-Bye. -Bye.
I find myself feeling resistant to some of the things
she thinks about ESP. I feel resistant.
I hope it's not true.
It would really break my heart if it was true
because if the thing that I thought...
that I loved the most and I thought did the most good,
was really damaging people, I think...
that would be very hard to...
I don't know how...
I don't know how I could come back from that.
♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
(SNIFFS)
DIANE: It's going to take you some time to heal.
Highlight the a-ha moments,
the times when you may feel guilty
because you could have stepped in,
or you promoted things that hurt others.
♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪
NANCY: Looking back,
I was constantly doing damage control
about Keith's sex life.
It was so hard. I never wanted to do that.
I don't know whether I want to talk about this, but...
he kept sending me in.
I felt so lost
and I had no one to talk to.
And I don't know if I did good things or bad things.
I didn't know anymore because I couldn't tell.
(SNIFFS) I didn't know.
I didn't know what was right and wrong anymore because...
He kept saying, "I'm going to die if you don't do this.
You don't understand how this affects my health.
You have to go do this." And I would just
keep going in, and going in, and going in.
I mean, maybe that's how I participate--
That's why I participated.
I was trying to put it back together all the time.
I was trying to make up for what he was doing.
I don't know. I just-- I don't know, but,
I guess that's at the root of the whole thing,
I feel so guilty because I couldn't do better.
(SOBS) I don't know.
These people are going to come to my sentencing
and maybe I should go to jail because I-- this is what I did.
So when Lauren says, "Mom, it happened on our watch,"
the two of us know what we're talking about.
This is what we're talking about.
He put us in this position, and we didn't know what to do.
We couldn't manage it.
Maybe it's, you know, for three years I have to sit
and be in jail
to make up for the damage that I did by empowering him.
♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪
When people talk about committing to ESP,
they get so confused,
because they think what it means to commit to ESP
is somehow to commit to Keith Raniere,
or to commit to Nancy Salzman,
or to commit to this person named Vanguard,
which is such a confusion,
because what this organization is about, is about you.
Barbara Bouchey would like to thank her staff.
BARBARA BOUCHEY: You know, I loved Nancy.
I knew her since 1988. I trusted her.
I admired her. I cared about her.
She, somewhere along the way, got in so deep
that she didn't know how to dig herself out.
(FAINT APPLAUSE, CHEERING)
BARBARA: Keith put Nancy on a stage,
and gave her what she wanted the most.
That sense of belonging, and being revered,
and being able to do what she thought
was her life's work.
And she lost her way.
(SIRENS BLARING)
NEWS ANCHOR: NXIVM's second in command, Nancy Salzman,
is being sentenced today.
NEWS ANCHOR 2: Salzman's attorneys are asking
for a home confinement sentence,
whereas the government is asking for a prison sentence.
(CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING)
JUDGE: Miss Salzman,
you and Mr. Raniere developed NXIVM together.
As the Prefect, you were Mr. Raniere's second in command,
and shared his power.
For 20 years, you helped him consolidate
and maintain control.
You went to extreme lengths to protect NXIVM,
which safeguarded and enhanced your own status in the group.
In 20 years of your relationship with Mr. Raniere,
prior to your arrest, you never rejected him.
The door was always open, but you never left.
There are also notable mitigating factors.
You were the first of your codefendants
to plead guilty.
You have served as a tireless caregiver
to your ailing parents in the years
following your arrest.
Conversely, you lured your daughter,
Lauren, into NXIVM, straight out of college,
which ultimately entrapped her
into a sexual relationship with Mr. Raniere.
I sentence you as follows.
Forty-two months in the custody of the Attorney General.
(GAVEL CLAPS)
-(INDISTINCT CHATTER) -(CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING)
CARMEN GUTIERREZ: He doesn't understand.
NANCY: I was surprised he blamed me for Lauren.
The judge blamed me for that.
He blamed me for that.
"You could have left at any time."
"You enrolled your daughter."
How could I enroll my daughter in something that's--
I love my daughter.
I would do anything for my daughter.
There's nothing more important to me than my children.
And for him to look at me and think that I'm that.
It's just not right.
(SOBS)
(SNIFFS)
Hey, honey.
LAUREN SALZMAN: Hi, Mama. Where are you?
Do you want me to come back to the hotel?
-I'm stood waiting for you. -Can you get some food
and then come back?
Because I can't leave until you come.
LAUREN: Okay, what do you want to eat?
I don't want to eat anything. Honey,
I don't want to eat anything.
LAUREN: Oh, I thought you meant food for you.
Okay. No, I'm done. I'll come back.
I'll just come back. See you soon.
I just want to go to Grandma's.
LAUREN: Okay, perfect. I'll get you and we'll go.
-(SOBS) Thank you. -LAUREN: Okay, I love you.
-Okay, bye. -Bye.
(SNIFFLES)
(GROANS)
(SOBS)
♪ (TENDER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
-(INDISTINCT CHATTER) -LAWYER: We're making a move.
-We're making a move now, Alli. -(CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING)
(PHONE CHIMES)
Oh? Oh. (GASPS) Oh!
We got it.
(LAUGHS, SOBS)
(SNIFFLES)
Time served and five years' probation.
(SOBS)
I am so relieved. Oh, my God. She doesn't have to go to jail.
(SNIFFLES, EXHALES DEEPLY)
So, I feel really fortunate.
(BABBLES)
-Woah! -(CHUCKLES)
NANCY: I think that most people look at this story and say,
"That could never happen to me."
And we don't realize that it's very similar
to things that happen every single day.
It's just exaggerated.
People trade away the things that they really want
because they don't want to create a catastrophe,
or they don't want to end a marriage,
or they don't want to quit their job.
And they walk in everyday and they make
another trade and another trade and another trade,
and they end up losing themselves in that.
So I think it's not as strange a story as one might think.
♪ ("DREAM STATE" BY SON LUX PLAYING) ♪
♪ Days we were young ♪
♪ We took photographs Of everything we could see ♪
♪ We had to run from it ♪
♪ Priest and prophetess We were ♪
♪ Nothing we would defy ♪
♪ Oh! Invisible skin ♪
♪ Where is the world within? ♪
♪ Invincible skin It's how we all begin ♪
♪ ("DREAM STATE" CONCLUDES) ♪