1 00:00:13,351 --> 00:00:18,106 One of the biggest issues in society today is punishment. 2 00:00:18,189 --> 00:00:20,567 Some people believe in capital punishment 3 00:00:20,650 --> 00:00:23,486 and some people don't believe in any punishment at all. 4 00:00:26,156 --> 00:00:30,076 And what about justice? What is justice? 5 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,955 Justice, according to the dictionary, is fairness. 6 00:00:34,038 --> 00:00:36,541 Justice is upholding one's ethics. 7 00:00:38,001 --> 00:00:40,670 If you do not uphold an ethical principle, 8 00:00:40,754 --> 00:00:45,175 the ethical principle ceases to exist. 9 00:00:45,258 --> 00:00:48,636 Justice often requires making the hard choice 10 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,598 and punishing with integrity when necessary. 11 00:00:52,891 --> 00:00:55,810 This inquiry will help you build an understanding 12 00:00:55,894 --> 00:00:57,854 of what's fair and what's just, 13 00:00:57,937 --> 00:00:59,939 so you'll gain a whole new perspective 14 00:01:00,023 --> 00:01:02,609 on punishment and accountability. 15 00:01:06,654 --> 00:01:11,117 ♪ ("DREAM STATE" FT. BONNIE PIESSE BY SON LUX PLAYING) ♪ 16 00:01:12,410 --> 00:01:14,454 ♪ Days we were young ♪ 17 00:01:14,537 --> 00:01:19,834 ♪ We took photographs Of everything we could see ♪ 18 00:01:20,668 --> 00:01:23,838 ♪ We had to run from it ♪ 19 00:01:23,922 --> 00:01:26,800 ♪ Priest and prophetess We were ♪ 20 00:01:26,883 --> 00:01:30,762 ♪ Nothing we would defy ♪ 21 00:01:31,805 --> 00:01:35,850 ♪ Oh! Invisible skin ♪ 22 00:01:35,934 --> 00:01:39,521 ♪ Where is the world within? ♪ 23 00:01:39,604 --> 00:01:44,692 ♪ Invincible skin It's how we all begin ♪ 24 00:01:49,239 --> 00:01:50,448 ♪ ("DREAM STATE" CONCLUDES) ♪ 25 00:02:00,625 --> 00:02:04,337 MOIRA PENZA: Over the course of the investigation... 26 00:02:04,420 --> 00:02:07,048 I realized that Camila was key to this case. 27 00:02:09,467 --> 00:02:13,388 We knew that there had been sexual interactions 28 00:02:13,471 --> 00:02:15,390 between Keith and Camila, 29 00:02:15,473 --> 00:02:19,394 but we did not have access to Camila. 30 00:02:19,477 --> 00:02:23,565 So proving that through the WhatsApp chats 31 00:02:23,648 --> 00:02:26,484 between Camila and Keith Raniere 32 00:02:26,568 --> 00:02:28,444 became very important. 33 00:02:30,154 --> 00:02:32,156 Keith Raniere's own words 34 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,034 were probably the most powerful evidence 35 00:02:35,118 --> 00:02:36,911 that we had in the case against him. 36 00:02:40,164 --> 00:02:41,624 TANYA HAJJAR: Good morning, Agent Rees. 37 00:02:41,708 --> 00:02:44,043 -AGENT REES: Good morning. -TANYA: Where do you work? 38 00:02:44,127 --> 00:02:46,546 REES: The Federal Bureau of Investigation. 39 00:02:46,629 --> 00:02:49,591 My role was to review the electronic evidence. 40 00:02:49,674 --> 00:02:51,134 TANYA: How many pages of these messages 41 00:02:51,217 --> 00:02:54,637 -have you personally reviewed? -REES: Approximately 1500. 42 00:02:57,223 --> 00:03:00,184 TANYA: And in terms of frequency of the messages you reviewed. 43 00:03:00,268 --> 00:03:01,936 REES: Hundreds of messages a day. 44 00:03:03,897 --> 00:03:05,315 MOIRA: Camila was in her early twenties 45 00:03:05,398 --> 00:03:07,817 when these messages were exchanged, 46 00:03:07,901 --> 00:03:10,737 but they had already had sexual contact for years. 47 00:03:13,156 --> 00:03:17,410 TANYA: On August 24th, Raniere writes, "Are you free?" 48 00:03:18,036 --> 00:03:21,581 (CAMILA READS MESSAGE) 49 00:03:21,664 --> 00:03:24,876 (TANYA READS MESSAGE) 50 00:03:25,877 --> 00:03:28,421 (CAMILA READS MESSAGE) 51 00:03:28,504 --> 00:03:33,092 (TANYA READS MESSAGES) 52 00:03:34,010 --> 00:03:36,054 (TANYA CONTINUES READING) 53 00:03:39,766 --> 00:03:41,184 (TANYA STOPS READING) 54 00:03:48,524 --> 00:03:49,901 NANCY SALZMAN: So let's see. 55 00:03:52,070 --> 00:03:55,782 Raniere, "Make sure your sister doesn't see you texting." 56 00:03:55,865 --> 00:03:57,951 "I just heard your father is now concerned. 57 00:03:58,034 --> 00:03:59,994 We need to be very careful." 58 00:04:00,078 --> 00:04:02,705 Her parents gave her permission to stay here 59 00:04:02,789 --> 00:04:04,958 because he was going to mentor her. 60 00:04:05,041 --> 00:04:07,293 And this is what he did instead. 61 00:04:09,087 --> 00:04:13,341 I think that Camila is not testifying 62 00:04:13,424 --> 00:04:16,010 because she may still be loyal to Keith. 63 00:04:17,470 --> 00:04:22,016 I don't think she realizes how badly she was abused. 64 00:04:22,100 --> 00:04:26,020 And I think the government doesn't know how to pose it 65 00:04:26,104 --> 00:04:29,691 any other way than to show the texts, 66 00:04:29,774 --> 00:04:33,027 allowing the jurors to come to their own conclusion. 67 00:04:35,238 --> 00:04:37,281 (PEOPLE CHATTERING) 68 00:04:46,332 --> 00:04:48,292 Are you in a-- Are you-- 69 00:04:52,797 --> 00:04:54,340 (CHATTERING CONTINUES) 70 00:04:56,509 --> 00:04:57,510 Okay. 71 00:05:00,179 --> 00:05:02,974 (CAMILA READS MESSAGE) 72 00:05:03,057 --> 00:05:04,517 (TANYA READS MESSAGE) 73 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:09,814 (CAMILA READS MESSAGES) 74 00:05:11,524 --> 00:05:14,694 (TANYA READING MESSAGES) 75 00:05:21,325 --> 00:05:22,535 (TANYA STOPS READING) 76 00:05:24,954 --> 00:05:26,247 TANYA: Agent Rees, 77 00:05:26,330 --> 00:05:28,041 are these just some of the excerpts 78 00:05:28,124 --> 00:05:29,459 relating to Robbie? 79 00:05:29,959 --> 00:05:30,918 REES: Yes. 80 00:05:31,002 --> 00:05:32,879 TANYA: And based on the messages exchanged, 81 00:05:32,962 --> 00:05:35,089 did it indicate a kind of romantic 82 00:05:35,173 --> 00:05:38,468 or sexual relationship between Camila and Robbie? 83 00:05:39,385 --> 00:05:40,428 REES: Yes. 84 00:05:42,555 --> 00:05:45,224 (TANYA READING MESSAGES) 85 00:05:49,771 --> 00:05:53,274 (CAMILA READS MESSAGE) 86 00:05:54,692 --> 00:05:56,736 (TANYA READS MESSAGE) 87 00:05:57,570 --> 00:05:59,447 (CAMILA READS MESSAGE) 88 00:06:00,198 --> 00:06:02,575 (TANYA READS MESSAGE) 89 00:06:02,658 --> 00:06:04,452 (CAMILA READS MESSAGE) 90 00:06:05,453 --> 00:06:08,289 (TANYA READING MESSAGE) 91 00:06:14,045 --> 00:06:16,422 (CAMILA READS MESSAGE) 92 00:06:16,506 --> 00:06:20,343 (TANYA READS MESSAGE) 93 00:06:28,059 --> 00:06:29,060 Um... 94 00:06:30,978 --> 00:06:32,605 (SIGHS) 95 00:06:32,688 --> 00:06:36,734 Keith, uh, saved all the WhatsApp messages 96 00:06:36,818 --> 00:06:42,532 for history. And, um, you know... 97 00:06:42,615 --> 00:06:44,575 They're-- Obviously, they're intimate. 98 00:06:44,659 --> 00:06:46,619 They're-- The government, you know, 99 00:06:46,702 --> 00:06:48,621 cherry-picked and picked the ones that they 100 00:06:48,704 --> 00:06:49,872 thought were best for them. 101 00:06:51,165 --> 00:06:52,166 The problem with this case, 102 00:06:52,250 --> 00:06:53,459 and the problem with this afternoon, 103 00:06:53,543 --> 00:06:56,587 none of that's charged. None of it's charged. 104 00:06:56,671 --> 00:06:57,964 You know, it's all cosmetic. 105 00:06:58,047 --> 00:07:01,300 You know, and, uh, and it has an effect on everybody, 106 00:07:01,384 --> 00:07:03,302 but it's not what's charged. 107 00:07:07,765 --> 00:07:11,435 EMILY SAUL: The content of this trial is so ridiculous. 108 00:07:11,519 --> 00:07:14,814 We're looking at messages allegedly from Keith Raniere, 109 00:07:14,897 --> 00:07:17,817 where he's asking her how, like, long 110 00:07:17,900 --> 00:07:21,863 and, like, the width of this man's penis is. 111 00:07:21,946 --> 00:07:24,574 And then saying that, like, his is bigger. 112 00:07:24,657 --> 00:07:26,492 And then her responding, you know, 113 00:07:26,576 --> 00:07:28,870 well, you haven't been, like, fully erect in a while, 114 00:07:28,953 --> 00:07:31,789 or, like, you haven't been your full self in a while. 115 00:07:31,873 --> 00:07:33,374 And it's just sort of like... 116 00:07:33,833 --> 00:07:34,959 I... 117 00:07:38,588 --> 00:07:39,589 Why? 118 00:07:41,924 --> 00:07:43,801 Why are we looking at these? 119 00:07:45,011 --> 00:07:47,638 The government is using agents to get in 120 00:07:47,722 --> 00:07:49,515 what should be brought in through witnesses. 121 00:07:49,599 --> 00:07:51,100 It's sort of like their way of getting in 122 00:07:51,184 --> 00:07:54,145 all of the abuse that happened to Camila, 123 00:07:54,228 --> 00:07:56,731 and the way she was manipulated by Raniere 124 00:07:56,814 --> 00:07:59,233 without the defense being able to cross examine 125 00:07:59,317 --> 00:08:01,152 any of these statements. 126 00:08:04,822 --> 00:08:09,619 MOIRA: The WhatsApp chats really gave the jury insight 127 00:08:09,702 --> 00:08:13,539 into this point in time where Keith Raniere 128 00:08:13,623 --> 00:08:17,835 is losing control over the women in his life. 129 00:08:17,919 --> 00:08:19,253 He had experienced 130 00:08:19,337 --> 00:08:21,714 what had happened with Daniela already. 131 00:08:21,797 --> 00:08:23,132 Now he had Camila, 132 00:08:23,216 --> 00:08:25,092 who he thought would never betray him, 133 00:08:25,176 --> 00:08:28,763 had had a sexual experience with another man. 134 00:08:28,846 --> 00:08:33,434 And DOS provided this way of keeping that control. 135 00:08:36,062 --> 00:08:39,524 (CAMILA READING MESSAGES) 136 00:08:44,111 --> 00:08:47,365 (TANYA READING MESSAGES) 137 00:08:51,744 --> 00:08:53,120 (TANYA STOPS READING) 138 00:08:56,249 --> 00:08:57,250 NANCY: Camila writes, 139 00:08:57,333 --> 00:08:58,584 "What do you want me to do?" 140 00:08:58,668 --> 00:08:59,669 And he writes, 141 00:08:59,752 --> 00:09:00,795 "Trust me 100 percent. 142 00:09:00,878 --> 00:09:05,091 Any failure is unacceptable. You have to earn me. 143 00:09:05,174 --> 00:09:07,510 I need a vow of absolute obedience." 144 00:09:08,261 --> 00:09:09,303 Camila writes, 145 00:09:09,387 --> 00:09:11,889 "I can't do it, love. Please don't be mad." 146 00:09:11,973 --> 00:09:13,516 And then he writes, uh, 147 00:09:13,599 --> 00:09:17,228 "If I don't get what I want, I want you out." 148 00:09:18,729 --> 00:09:19,772 Camila writes, 149 00:09:19,855 --> 00:09:21,565 "I'm fearful that you will abuse the power." 150 00:09:21,649 --> 00:09:22,608 And he writes, 151 00:09:22,692 --> 00:09:24,485 "If it never seemed questionable, 152 00:09:24,568 --> 00:09:26,362 it wouldn't be trust. Do it now." 153 00:09:26,445 --> 00:09:29,573 Camila says, "I vow to do as you say." 154 00:09:32,451 --> 00:09:35,663 So she's 24 at this point that he's asking for this vow. 155 00:09:36,622 --> 00:09:39,292 And now he wants her to be his slave. 156 00:09:39,375 --> 00:09:42,545 So he came up with this idea in 2014, I guess. 157 00:09:42,628 --> 00:09:44,839 This is the beginning of DOS, I guess. 158 00:09:46,549 --> 00:09:48,217 (CAMILA READS MESSAGE) 159 00:09:48,301 --> 00:09:53,055 (TANYA READS MESSAGE) 160 00:09:53,139 --> 00:09:55,391 (CAMILA READS MESSAGE) 161 00:09:55,474 --> 00:09:58,394 (TANYA READS MESSAGE) 162 00:09:59,979 --> 00:10:02,940 (TANYA CONTINUES READING) 163 00:10:05,818 --> 00:10:09,030 (CAMILA READS MESSAGE) 164 00:10:09,113 --> 00:10:12,700 (TANYA READS MESSAGE) 165 00:10:14,327 --> 00:10:15,661 (TANYA READS MESSAGE) 166 00:10:15,745 --> 00:10:16,996 (CAMILA READS MESSAGE) 167 00:10:17,621 --> 00:10:19,206 (TANYA READS MESSAGE) 168 00:10:19,290 --> 00:10:21,792 (CAMILA READS MESSAGE) 169 00:10:26,464 --> 00:10:28,966 MOIRA: Keith Raniere's defense was that 170 00:10:29,050 --> 00:10:31,677 DOS was intended as something good, 171 00:10:31,761 --> 00:10:33,888 that this was intended as women's empowerment. 172 00:10:35,639 --> 00:10:40,686 Having those communications where he actually says to Camila 173 00:10:40,770 --> 00:10:43,356 that she should be grooming 174 00:10:43,439 --> 00:10:47,193 someone for him. These were very key facts, 175 00:10:47,276 --> 00:10:49,362 and key evidence to proving our case. 176 00:10:51,489 --> 00:10:57,578 (TANYA READS MESSAGE) 177 00:10:58,579 --> 00:11:01,749 (CAMILA READING MESSAGES) 178 00:11:08,130 --> 00:11:10,716 (TANYA READS MESSAGE) 179 00:11:12,426 --> 00:11:15,346 (CAMILA READS MESSAGE) 180 00:11:23,020 --> 00:11:26,607 KEITH RANIERE: Abuse is a made-up human construct. 181 00:11:26,690 --> 00:11:29,610 The thing, for example, with sexual abuse. 182 00:11:29,693 --> 00:11:33,823 In some states, it's their ages. There's the age of consent. 183 00:11:33,906 --> 00:11:37,243 Some states it's 17. Some parts of the world it's 12. 184 00:11:37,326 --> 00:11:40,121 So what's abuse in one area is not abuse in another, 185 00:11:40,204 --> 00:11:41,455 but what is it really? 186 00:11:41,539 --> 00:11:45,668 Abuse is, does the person-- Is the person a child? 187 00:11:45,751 --> 00:11:47,962 Or is the person adult-like? 188 00:11:48,796 --> 00:11:51,006 Does the person, um, 189 00:11:51,090 --> 00:11:53,467 have a certain type of understanding 190 00:11:53,551 --> 00:11:57,138 of cognition, morality to make such a choice? 191 00:11:58,222 --> 00:12:01,225 Often, when you counsel people who were, say, 192 00:12:01,308 --> 00:12:05,980 children of what you call abuse, you know, the little child... 193 00:12:06,063 --> 00:12:08,941 Some little children are perfectly happy with it, 194 00:12:09,024 --> 00:12:12,486 until they find out what happened later in life. 195 00:12:12,570 --> 00:12:15,448 "In other words, at the time they didn't know it was bad. 196 00:12:15,531 --> 00:12:17,575 They didn't know anything about it was bad. 197 00:12:17,658 --> 00:12:19,243 Later they grow up, and they find out 198 00:12:19,326 --> 00:12:21,537 that it was actually something that was bad. 199 00:12:21,620 --> 00:12:26,041 In that case, is it more society that's abusing them? 200 00:12:26,125 --> 00:12:30,087 Because society says it's bad, but they didn't know it was bad. 201 00:12:30,171 --> 00:12:32,590 In other societies in the past, like in Rome, 202 00:12:32,673 --> 00:12:34,300 standards were completely different. 203 00:12:34,383 --> 00:12:37,261 But we are not in Rome, and we should know that." 204 00:12:40,431 --> 00:12:41,891 You want me to comment on it now? 205 00:12:41,974 --> 00:12:42,975 Yeah. 206 00:12:44,727 --> 00:12:45,728 Um... 207 00:12:50,816 --> 00:12:52,568 When I look at it now... 208 00:12:56,572 --> 00:12:58,324 I have certain feelings about... 209 00:13:00,201 --> 00:13:01,785 it that I didn't... 210 00:13:04,914 --> 00:13:05,915 have then. 211 00:13:06,790 --> 00:13:08,167 Um... 212 00:13:08,250 --> 00:13:11,170 This is a concept that Keith brought up twice. 213 00:13:11,253 --> 00:13:12,546 Maybe three times. 214 00:13:13,631 --> 00:13:15,466 Certainly, it's being taken out of context. 215 00:13:15,549 --> 00:13:18,219 It was a whole series of different things. 216 00:13:18,302 --> 00:13:23,516 But I feel a lot of remorse that I read that. 217 00:13:24,642 --> 00:13:28,854 January 3rd, 2005, this was created. 218 00:13:28,938 --> 00:13:30,898 Camila was about 15 that year. 219 00:13:33,692 --> 00:13:36,695 There are very few parts of the curriculum 220 00:13:36,779 --> 00:13:40,366 that I think intentionally were put in there... 221 00:13:40,449 --> 00:13:43,160 to-- to-- to promote Keith's... 222 00:13:44,995 --> 00:13:48,541 beliefs, or his own behaviors, or whatever. 223 00:13:49,291 --> 00:13:50,793 That I think probably was. 224 00:13:52,753 --> 00:13:54,046 That intensive, 225 00:13:54,129 --> 00:13:58,759 he addresses the darkest parts of humanity. 226 00:13:58,842 --> 00:14:00,761 And there were a lot of thought experiments 227 00:14:00,844 --> 00:14:05,099 where we go into in great detail, what is abuse? 228 00:14:05,182 --> 00:14:07,351 How do you define abuse? 229 00:14:07,434 --> 00:14:11,480 It leaves you to be able to figure out 230 00:14:11,564 --> 00:14:14,400 what you think about these concepts. 231 00:14:15,776 --> 00:14:17,903 So when we came down to age of consent, 232 00:14:17,987 --> 00:14:20,614 it just seemed like another thought experiment to me. 233 00:14:23,742 --> 00:14:25,077 It never occurred to me 234 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,581 that he was having a relationship with Camila. 235 00:14:28,664 --> 00:14:33,419 And it is abuse to ask a child to make a decision 236 00:14:33,502 --> 00:14:35,588 that they can't possibly make 237 00:14:35,671 --> 00:14:39,091 because they don't understand what it will mean. 238 00:14:41,343 --> 00:14:44,346 TANYA: Agent Rees, have you also reviewed photographs? 239 00:14:44,430 --> 00:14:45,639 REES: I have. 240 00:14:45,723 --> 00:14:47,850 TANYA: And is it fair to say that some of these 241 00:14:47,933 --> 00:14:50,603 are graphically nude photographs of Camila? 242 00:14:50,686 --> 00:14:51,895 REES: Yes, they are. 243 00:14:53,939 --> 00:14:58,319 (TANYA READS MESSAGE) 244 00:14:59,069 --> 00:15:03,032 (CAMILA READS MESSAGES) 245 00:15:03,657 --> 00:15:07,453 (TANYA READS MESSAGE) 246 00:15:08,078 --> 00:15:10,372 (CAMILA READS MESSAGE) 247 00:15:10,456 --> 00:15:12,833 (TANYA READS MESSAGE) 248 00:15:15,419 --> 00:15:19,131 Keith Raniere does like keeping photographs. 249 00:15:19,214 --> 00:15:21,842 I think it's trophies for him. 250 00:15:21,925 --> 00:15:25,554 And so, once we knew about 251 00:15:25,638 --> 00:15:29,224 the picture taking, the picture keeping, 252 00:15:29,308 --> 00:15:31,602 it was a matter of finding those. 253 00:15:31,685 --> 00:15:34,229 And when we did, 254 00:15:34,313 --> 00:15:37,900 I mean, that is game-changing evidence. 255 00:15:42,363 --> 00:15:44,698 We've been hearing about images of Camila 256 00:15:44,782 --> 00:15:47,868 that are sexually explicit, taken when she was underage. 257 00:15:47,951 --> 00:15:52,039 And finally today, jurors saw those in the courtroom. 258 00:15:53,290 --> 00:15:56,835 The FBI agent, like, opened up the binder, 259 00:15:56,919 --> 00:16:00,464 and sort of very, like, solemnly and stoically 260 00:16:00,547 --> 00:16:02,841 flipped through 18 photos. 261 00:16:04,259 --> 00:16:09,139 It was a very dramatic, very silent presentation, 262 00:16:09,223 --> 00:16:11,392 which the jurors really reacted to. 263 00:16:12,851 --> 00:16:16,397 They seemed to have a really hard time with these images. 264 00:16:24,613 --> 00:16:26,699 I'm feeling sick. 265 00:16:26,782 --> 00:16:29,284 You know, like a part of me is thinking, 266 00:16:29,368 --> 00:16:31,578 "Oh, my God, how could you ever-- 267 00:16:31,662 --> 00:16:33,831 have ever loved this man?" 268 00:16:33,914 --> 00:16:39,753 You know, and he's a monster, and how did he conceal this? 269 00:16:39,837 --> 00:16:42,131 It's appalling, and it's disgusting. 270 00:16:43,507 --> 00:16:45,467 I'm a very forgiving person. 271 00:16:46,677 --> 00:16:48,345 And I'm having a hard time... 272 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,224 finding that forgiveness for him right now. 273 00:16:54,059 --> 00:16:57,020 He stole her childhood. 274 00:17:01,150 --> 00:17:04,069 Camila was victimized at an earlier age 275 00:17:04,153 --> 00:17:06,196 than anyone else in this case. 276 00:17:07,656 --> 00:17:09,116 At a time when her family 277 00:17:09,199 --> 00:17:12,161 was already completely indoctrinated. 278 00:17:13,328 --> 00:17:18,292 That being said, she became a predator herself, 279 00:17:18,375 --> 00:17:22,379 and she is part of one of the most serious 280 00:17:22,463 --> 00:17:24,047 DOS related crimes 281 00:17:24,131 --> 00:17:27,885 that we charged, the sex trafficking of Nicole, 282 00:17:27,968 --> 00:17:31,305 who was one of the last victims to testify at the trial. 283 00:17:34,641 --> 00:17:36,852 NEWS ANCHOR 1: After five weeks of dramatic testimony, 284 00:17:36,935 --> 00:17:40,689 the trial of Keith Raniere enters its final week. 285 00:17:40,773 --> 00:17:43,358 NEWS ANCHOR 2: A former DOS member named Nicole, 286 00:17:43,442 --> 00:17:44,610 giving her testimony. 287 00:17:44,693 --> 00:17:47,279 Allison Mack was her direct superior 288 00:17:47,362 --> 00:17:50,491 and also her mentor in her acting career. 289 00:17:53,076 --> 00:17:55,329 EMILY: Nicole was Keith's perfect woman. 290 00:17:55,412 --> 00:17:58,540 She had long hair. She was beautiful. 291 00:17:59,792 --> 00:18:01,960 She was a bartender in New York City, 292 00:18:02,044 --> 00:18:05,380 found by Allison Mack, and then groomed for Keith. 293 00:18:07,716 --> 00:18:10,844 -MOIRA: Good afternoon, Nicole. -NICOLE: Good afternoon. 294 00:18:10,928 --> 00:18:13,096 MOIRA: When did you first join The Source? 295 00:18:15,599 --> 00:18:17,142 ALLISON MACK: Yes, it's an acting curriculum, 296 00:18:17,226 --> 00:18:19,019 but there's so much more to this, 297 00:18:19,102 --> 00:18:22,189 because what you learn is the art of life, 298 00:18:22,272 --> 00:18:24,733 and how to be a true student of that. 299 00:18:25,943 --> 00:18:27,778 NICOLE: I started to get involved with The Source 300 00:18:27,861 --> 00:18:29,530 in 2015, 301 00:18:29,613 --> 00:18:32,533 but honestly, my life was not that great. 302 00:18:32,616 --> 00:18:34,243 I was really struggling. 303 00:18:35,410 --> 00:18:36,954 Allison said she had something 304 00:18:37,037 --> 00:18:40,290 that she thought would fix how I was feeling, 305 00:18:40,374 --> 00:18:43,252 but she said that if I wanted to get more information, 306 00:18:43,335 --> 00:18:45,671 I would have to provide collateral. 307 00:18:45,754 --> 00:18:47,673 By that point, Allison had been mentoring me 308 00:18:47,756 --> 00:18:49,424 in The Source for a while. 309 00:18:49,508 --> 00:18:53,637 She had taken me under her wing, so I-- I definitely trusted her. 310 00:18:56,348 --> 00:19:00,060 MOIRA: What were your initial experiences with DOS like? 311 00:19:00,143 --> 00:19:01,228 NICOLE: In the beginning, 312 00:19:01,311 --> 00:19:04,231 Allison was very attentive and loving. 313 00:19:04,314 --> 00:19:08,277 One morning, Allison said, "I have an assignment for you." 314 00:19:10,821 --> 00:19:13,323 MOIRA: One of the most serious charges in the case 315 00:19:13,407 --> 00:19:15,033 was sex trafficking, 316 00:19:15,117 --> 00:19:21,123 based on evidence that Nicole was coerced 317 00:19:21,206 --> 00:19:24,877 into engaging in commercial sex with Keith Raniere. 318 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,547 Because Nicole's sex acts with Keith Raniere 319 00:19:28,630 --> 00:19:34,052 ultimately provided a benefit, um, to Allison Mack 320 00:19:34,136 --> 00:19:36,889 in the form of her increased status 321 00:19:36,972 --> 00:19:38,181 with Keith Raniere. 322 00:19:39,558 --> 00:19:42,769 I'm Allison Mack. I'm the president of The Source. 323 00:19:42,853 --> 00:19:45,230 I'm excited to welcome you on this journey. 324 00:19:46,106 --> 00:19:47,691 NANCY: Someone can go from victim 325 00:19:47,774 --> 00:19:49,568 to perpetrator very quickly. 326 00:19:50,444 --> 00:19:51,653 Take Allison Mack. 327 00:19:52,946 --> 00:19:55,240 In many ways, Allison didn't have 328 00:19:55,324 --> 00:19:57,701 a real experience growing up. 329 00:19:57,784 --> 00:19:59,453 She was an actress from the time 330 00:19:59,536 --> 00:20:00,579 she was four or five. 331 00:20:01,914 --> 00:20:05,083 She didn't have a normal reality. 332 00:20:05,167 --> 00:20:06,543 Just because everyone else chooses to ignore 333 00:20:06,627 --> 00:20:09,212 the strange things that happen in this leafy little hamlet 334 00:20:09,296 --> 00:20:11,298 doesn't mean that they don't happen. 335 00:20:12,341 --> 00:20:15,052 NANCY: She's a spiritual kind of being. 336 00:20:15,886 --> 00:20:18,180 She believed in tantric yoga. 337 00:20:18,263 --> 00:20:21,058 It is a sexual path to enlightenment. 338 00:20:21,975 --> 00:20:23,018 Now, if you look at Allison, 339 00:20:23,101 --> 00:20:25,562 she is a beautiful, beautiful woman. 340 00:20:25,646 --> 00:20:29,733 But Allison, like a lot of women, 341 00:20:29,816 --> 00:20:33,820 had a lot of insecurities sexually. 342 00:20:33,904 --> 00:20:36,865 And Allison truly believed 343 00:20:36,949 --> 00:20:39,910 Keith was going to dedicate himself 344 00:20:39,993 --> 00:20:43,330 to helping her through her sexual issues. 345 00:20:43,413 --> 00:20:45,916 Now, that may sound crazy to you... 346 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,128 but that is what Allison believed. 347 00:20:50,212 --> 00:20:54,424 We can use our body as a tool to access emotions, 348 00:20:54,508 --> 00:20:56,760 and the more flexible our body can be, 349 00:20:56,843 --> 00:20:58,345 we may have more flexibility 350 00:20:58,428 --> 00:21:00,430 -in our emotions. -Yeah. 351 00:21:00,514 --> 00:21:03,934 NANCY: And then he convinced her to find other women 352 00:21:04,017 --> 00:21:05,394 who could do the program. 353 00:21:08,230 --> 00:21:09,398 KEITH: Uh, 354 00:21:12,275 --> 00:21:13,485 ALLISON: Mm-hmm. 355 00:21:39,803 --> 00:21:40,846 KEITH: Uh-huh. 356 00:21:42,305 --> 00:21:43,348 ALLISON: Uh-huh. 357 00:21:51,940 --> 00:21:54,276 (BOTH LAUGH) 358 00:22:00,032 --> 00:22:01,241 (KEITH CHUCKLES) 359 00:22:04,453 --> 00:22:05,704 (LAUGHS) That's-- 360 00:22:12,461 --> 00:22:13,879 (KEITH CHUCKLES) 361 00:22:16,631 --> 00:22:20,927 Allison was jealous of Keith having sex with other women, 362 00:22:21,011 --> 00:22:25,348 and she felt that she was overcoming her problem... 363 00:22:25,432 --> 00:22:29,603 by allow-- by... by promoting this in other women. 364 00:22:29,686 --> 00:22:32,939 So, like, here he sets up a thing where he says, 365 00:22:33,023 --> 00:22:36,109 "How can you keep my work all to yourself? 366 00:22:36,193 --> 00:22:38,987 What's wrong with you? You're such a narcissist." 367 00:22:39,071 --> 00:22:40,739 And Allison is like, "Oh, no, no, no. 368 00:22:40,822 --> 00:22:44,034 I don't wanna be a narcissist, but I am so jealous." 369 00:22:44,117 --> 00:22:46,453 "Well, we're going to work it through." 370 00:22:46,536 --> 00:22:49,873 "We experience our love not needing return. 371 00:22:49,956 --> 00:22:53,794 We no longer need to receive love to love. 372 00:22:54,503 --> 00:22:55,670 We are humble... 373 00:22:56,338 --> 00:22:57,506 (CHUCKLES) 374 00:22:58,965 --> 00:23:00,300 ...and without pride." 375 00:23:03,095 --> 00:23:06,098 NANCY: And now, is Allison a perpetrator? 376 00:23:06,181 --> 00:23:07,390 Or is Allison a victim? 377 00:23:07,474 --> 00:23:11,394 Well, Allison is a victim who was sent out to do something 378 00:23:11,478 --> 00:23:12,938 that she believed was good, 379 00:23:13,021 --> 00:23:15,107 because she believed Keith was good. 380 00:23:16,149 --> 00:23:17,776 And that is how he did it. 381 00:23:23,073 --> 00:23:24,491 MOIRA So, Nicole, 382 00:23:24,574 --> 00:23:27,327 how did Allison introduce this assignment to you? 383 00:23:29,079 --> 00:23:31,248 NICOLE: One day before a walk, 384 00:23:31,331 --> 00:23:33,291 she told me to go outside and tell Keith 385 00:23:33,375 --> 00:23:35,836 that I would do anything that he asked me to do. 386 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,089 I went outside, and he was waiting 387 00:23:39,172 --> 00:23:41,299 out the back door of Allison's house. 388 00:23:41,383 --> 00:23:43,802 (BREATHES DEEPLY) 389 00:23:43,885 --> 00:23:45,262 I was telling myself, 390 00:23:45,345 --> 00:23:47,889 "You can do this, you can do this." 391 00:23:48,515 --> 00:23:50,142 And eventually I said, 392 00:23:50,225 --> 00:23:52,561 "I will do anything you ask me to do." 393 00:23:55,021 --> 00:23:56,022 He took my hand, 394 00:23:56,106 --> 00:23:58,984 and took me into the house across the street. 395 00:23:59,067 --> 00:24:00,610 He pointed to these two blindfolds 396 00:24:00,694 --> 00:24:03,530 that were there, and told me to put them on. 397 00:24:04,781 --> 00:24:07,993 He put me inside a car, and then we drove somewhere. 398 00:24:10,745 --> 00:24:13,498 When we eventually stopped, he came around, 399 00:24:13,582 --> 00:24:16,251 took my hand, and took me through the woods. 400 00:24:17,627 --> 00:24:20,922 I remember stepping up on, like, a step or two, 401 00:24:21,006 --> 00:24:23,758 and then walking through what seemed like a front door. 402 00:24:23,842 --> 00:24:26,887 (DOOR CREAKS OPEN, CLOSES) 403 00:24:26,970 --> 00:24:30,390 When we got inside, he told me to undress. 404 00:24:31,892 --> 00:24:35,979 Then he led me to a table, and told me to lay back on it. 405 00:24:39,691 --> 00:24:41,234 Then he tied my wrists 406 00:24:41,318 --> 00:24:44,696 and my feet to two different corners of the table. 407 00:24:44,779 --> 00:24:47,449 And deep down, I was hoping that was it. 408 00:24:49,492 --> 00:24:50,577 But that was not the end. 409 00:24:52,162 --> 00:24:55,332 All of a sudden, I felt someone going down on me. 410 00:24:56,291 --> 00:24:57,500 First, I thought it was Keith, 411 00:24:57,584 --> 00:25:00,378 but while I was trying to process what was happening, 412 00:25:00,462 --> 00:25:02,297 -Keith started talking. -KEITH: Going from... 413 00:25:02,380 --> 00:25:04,966 NICOLE: So I was like, holy shit, 414 00:25:05,050 --> 00:25:06,843 there's someone else in the room. 415 00:25:07,969 --> 00:25:09,721 It was absolutely terrifying. 416 00:25:10,847 --> 00:25:14,851 And just at that moment, I felt long hair, 417 00:25:14,935 --> 00:25:17,229 which made me feel a tiny bit safer 418 00:25:17,312 --> 00:25:20,440 that it was a woman and not another man in the room. 419 00:25:22,567 --> 00:25:24,486 Eventually, the oral sex stopped. 420 00:25:26,571 --> 00:25:30,075 He said what had just happened was not bad. 421 00:25:30,158 --> 00:25:34,246 And I just said, "Can I go?" And he said, "Yes, 422 00:25:34,329 --> 00:25:36,539 but don't tell anyone what had happened." 423 00:25:46,049 --> 00:25:47,634 EMILY: It turns out that the person who was 424 00:25:47,717 --> 00:25:50,804 performing oral sex on Nicole was Cami. 425 00:25:56,393 --> 00:25:58,812 And I recall upon learning that, 426 00:25:58,895 --> 00:26:02,274 feeling, you know, additionally horrified, 427 00:26:02,357 --> 00:26:04,150 but also realizing that 428 00:26:04,234 --> 00:26:07,279 that's why Cami wasn't a participant in the trial. 429 00:26:07,362 --> 00:26:10,490 She had been turned into a victimizer by Keith. 430 00:26:10,573 --> 00:26:14,411 And so that's just a whole next level of-- of fucked up. 431 00:26:18,081 --> 00:26:21,042 Seeing the progression for Camila 432 00:26:21,126 --> 00:26:24,337 from this teenage girl 433 00:26:24,421 --> 00:26:29,342 to becoming this woman willing to do very bad things 434 00:26:29,426 --> 00:26:33,513 for Keith Raniere was powerful, um, to a jury. 435 00:26:36,599 --> 00:26:38,768 Keith Raniere victimized women, 436 00:26:38,852 --> 00:26:42,564 and then put them in the role of being victimizers. 437 00:26:43,815 --> 00:26:44,941 (CAMILA LAUGHS) 438 00:26:46,443 --> 00:26:52,324 At that point, I felt that we had proven the case. 439 00:26:53,700 --> 00:26:56,745 ♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 440 00:27:02,834 --> 00:27:05,378 ♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪ 441 00:27:05,462 --> 00:27:08,715 MARC AGNIFILO: It's the evening before the summations. 442 00:27:11,217 --> 00:27:14,763 Keith basically said, he's putting his faith in me. 443 00:27:15,889 --> 00:27:18,600 He says I'm resourceful and talented, and, 444 00:27:18,683 --> 00:27:20,727 you know, he's going to put his faith in me. 445 00:27:22,771 --> 00:27:25,857 I think the only way that we really 446 00:27:25,940 --> 00:27:29,027 can open this jury's minds and their hearts 447 00:27:29,110 --> 00:27:31,279 to Keith's view of things 448 00:27:31,363 --> 00:27:34,657 is to go right at the worst stuff. 449 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,457 NEWS ANCHOR 1: Closing arguments wrapping up in what has been 450 00:27:42,540 --> 00:27:46,795 an intense case against alleged cult leader, Keith Raniere. 451 00:27:46,878 --> 00:27:48,380 NEWS ANCHOR 2: A federal prosecutor says 452 00:27:48,463 --> 00:27:51,591 Keith Raniere is a con man and a crime boss. 453 00:27:51,674 --> 00:27:52,926 But defense attorneys say, 454 00:27:53,009 --> 00:27:55,136 any sexual encounters Raniere may have had 455 00:27:55,220 --> 00:27:57,597 with members of his self-help group called NXIVM, 456 00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:58,973 were consensual. 457 00:28:00,266 --> 00:28:02,602 NEWS ANCHOR 3: The fate of NXIVM leader, Keith Raniere, 458 00:28:02,685 --> 00:28:04,604 now in the hands of the jury. 459 00:28:04,687 --> 00:28:06,564 The jury began their deliberations 460 00:28:06,648 --> 00:28:09,401 just before 9:30 this morning. 461 00:28:09,484 --> 00:28:11,820 Now, there's no telling exactly how long 462 00:28:11,903 --> 00:28:14,114 the jury will take for that verdict. 463 00:28:14,197 --> 00:28:16,074 What do you predict? How long do you think? 464 00:28:16,157 --> 00:28:19,536 The U.S. Marshals have said that 465 00:28:19,619 --> 00:28:22,080 based on their experience, it's not going to be today. 466 00:28:22,163 --> 00:28:23,790 They said at the earliest, tomorrow. 467 00:28:25,208 --> 00:28:26,418 In this particular case, 468 00:28:26,501 --> 00:28:28,128 let's say, we're in the seventh week. 469 00:28:28,211 --> 00:28:31,256 We're supposed to have six days of deliberations. I doubt it. 470 00:28:40,223 --> 00:28:41,307 (CELL PHONE BUZZES) 471 00:28:43,226 --> 00:28:45,353 Uh, the CSO just poked his head in 472 00:28:45,437 --> 00:28:47,564 and said we might want to come upstairs. 473 00:28:47,647 --> 00:28:48,982 Oh, fuck! 474 00:28:49,732 --> 00:28:51,818 ♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 475 00:29:05,623 --> 00:29:07,667 (PANTING, LAUGHING) 476 00:29:07,750 --> 00:29:09,252 It's gonna be good, it's gonna be good. 477 00:29:09,335 --> 00:29:10,962 I can feel it. (LAUGHS) 478 00:29:11,045 --> 00:29:13,131 ♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪ 479 00:29:15,675 --> 00:29:16,801 ♪ (MUSIC STOPS) ♪ 480 00:29:31,900 --> 00:29:33,193 NEWS ANCHOR 1: A federal jury in Brooklyn 481 00:29:33,276 --> 00:29:34,611 today found NXIVM leader Keith... 482 00:29:34,694 --> 00:29:36,988 NEWS ANCHOR 2: Keith Raniere was found guilty on all counts, 483 00:29:37,071 --> 00:29:39,532 including sex trafficking, and racketeering. 484 00:29:39,616 --> 00:29:41,159 NEWS ANCHOR 3: Guilty of racketeering, 485 00:29:41,242 --> 00:29:42,660 guilty of conspiracy, 486 00:29:42,744 --> 00:29:45,163 wire fraud, and sex trafficking. 487 00:29:45,246 --> 00:29:46,414 -MARK VICENTE: Right. -Right. 488 00:29:46,498 --> 00:29:48,374 Fucking, like, one after the other, man. 489 00:29:48,458 --> 00:29:50,376 NEWS ANCHOR 4: The mood out here on the streets of Brooklyn 490 00:29:50,460 --> 00:29:54,255 can best be described as jubilant and celebratory. 491 00:29:54,339 --> 00:29:56,090 Every single woman who came forward 492 00:29:56,174 --> 00:29:58,968 to tell their horror stories feels vindication. 493 00:29:59,052 --> 00:30:00,762 NEWS ANCHOR 5: Some people have been waiting decades 494 00:30:00,845 --> 00:30:03,515 to get justice against Keith Raniere. 495 00:30:03,598 --> 00:30:06,142 I still can't believe all counts guilty. 496 00:30:06,226 --> 00:30:08,561 I still-- That's, like, breathtaking. 497 00:30:08,645 --> 00:30:11,314 -What's up? -SARAH EDMONSON: Oh, my God. 498 00:30:12,565 --> 00:30:14,234 MARK: I don't know how I feel yet. 499 00:30:14,317 --> 00:30:16,069 It was fucking surreal. 500 00:30:16,152 --> 00:30:17,820 It's my belief that the judge will give him 501 00:30:17,904 --> 00:30:19,531 a very, very heavy sentence. 502 00:30:19,614 --> 00:30:22,033 But you do realize what this means, right? 503 00:30:22,116 --> 00:30:23,993 Like, we can change our life now. 504 00:30:30,083 --> 00:30:35,463 These crimes ruined marriages, careers, 505 00:30:35,547 --> 00:30:38,800 fortunes, and lives. 506 00:30:38,883 --> 00:30:41,970 Keith Raniere's crime spree has ended, 507 00:30:42,053 --> 00:30:45,598 and his victims will finally see justice. 508 00:30:45,682 --> 00:30:46,641 Thank you. 509 00:30:46,724 --> 00:30:50,144 (SPECTATORS APPLAUDING, CHEERING) 510 00:30:50,228 --> 00:30:51,271 SPECTATOR: Thank you! 511 00:30:51,854 --> 00:30:53,731 (CHEERING CONTINUES) 512 00:30:55,024 --> 00:30:57,110 (SPECTATORS WHISTLE) 513 00:30:57,193 --> 00:30:59,195 (CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING) 514 00:31:02,323 --> 00:31:05,243 Uh, no, not the result we were hoping for. Um... 515 00:31:08,288 --> 00:31:09,414 A win in the sentence. 516 00:31:09,497 --> 00:31:11,958 That's-- It's a-- That's a ...a strange place to be, 517 00:31:12,041 --> 00:31:14,961 I mean, you know, but I think it's the rare defendant 518 00:31:15,044 --> 00:31:19,382 that should not have the glimmer of hope of one day living life 519 00:31:19,465 --> 00:31:22,885 as a free man, even an elderly free man. 520 00:31:22,969 --> 00:31:27,098 Keith maintains his innocence. He does plan on appealing, 521 00:31:27,181 --> 00:31:28,474 and we do think we have 522 00:31:28,558 --> 00:31:31,769 some substantial grounds, um, for an appeal. 523 00:31:31,853 --> 00:31:34,647 ♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 524 00:31:37,442 --> 00:31:38,985 AUTOMATED VOICE: You have a prepaid call. 525 00:31:39,861 --> 00:31:41,613 This call is from... 526 00:31:41,696 --> 00:31:43,781 -KEITH: Raniere. -(PHONE LINE BEEPS) 527 00:32:30,912 --> 00:32:32,622 (FLASHLIGHT CLICKS) 528 00:32:34,749 --> 00:32:38,002 NICKI CLYNE: If we don't expose the injustices 529 00:32:38,086 --> 00:32:40,296 that have happened against him, 530 00:32:40,380 --> 00:32:45,093 he will go to jail, and he will most likely be killed. 531 00:32:47,512 --> 00:32:48,888 I know he's innocent, 532 00:32:48,971 --> 00:32:53,976 and I will fight till I die to prove it. 533 00:32:56,479 --> 00:32:58,898 When you are being attacked, 534 00:32:59,982 --> 00:33:02,402 and it's not just you, 535 00:33:02,485 --> 00:33:05,905 it's like your-- it's your community. 536 00:33:05,988 --> 00:33:09,075 Yes, there are people who will just 537 00:33:09,158 --> 00:33:11,536 run for their lives. 538 00:33:11,619 --> 00:33:13,663 I wouldn't be able to live with myself 539 00:33:13,746 --> 00:33:18,376 if I just cared about my own survival. 540 00:33:18,459 --> 00:33:21,129 It's not the kind of world I spent 541 00:33:21,212 --> 00:33:24,924 15 years of my life trying to build. 542 00:33:25,425 --> 00:33:27,468 (BIRDS CHIRPING) 543 00:33:29,303 --> 00:33:31,514 (FOOTSTEPS APPROACHING) 544 00:33:38,688 --> 00:33:44,736 NANCY: A lot of the people who continue to follow Keith... 545 00:33:44,819 --> 00:33:48,322 if they acknowledge that they were wrong about Keith... 546 00:33:49,115 --> 00:33:50,825 then they have to look at... 547 00:33:52,034 --> 00:33:54,078 how wrong they were. 548 00:33:54,162 --> 00:33:56,080 (BIRDS CHIRPING) 549 00:33:56,164 --> 00:33:58,207 NANCY: It's like pulling out the rug 550 00:33:58,291 --> 00:34:00,501 that holds your foundation together. 551 00:34:02,128 --> 00:34:06,758 If you're this wrong, can you really trust yourself? 552 00:34:11,220 --> 00:34:14,348 ♪ (MELLOW MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 553 00:34:16,058 --> 00:34:18,811 -NICKI: It's so hard to leave. -Yes, it is. 554 00:34:18,895 --> 00:34:20,897 So, whose husband is he? Yours or Michele? 555 00:34:20,980 --> 00:34:23,858 It's, uh, not my husband, but my partner. 556 00:34:23,941 --> 00:34:25,359 -Partner? -NICKI: Yeah, yeah. 557 00:34:27,987 --> 00:34:29,530 I mean, he's pre-sentence. 558 00:34:29,614 --> 00:34:34,285 Uh, it's-- it's a bullshit case. So we're doing everything we can 559 00:34:34,368 --> 00:34:36,662 to get the truth out and get him out. 560 00:34:43,252 --> 00:34:47,131 NICKI: If I did what my lawyer advised me to do, 561 00:34:47,215 --> 00:34:50,301 I'd be living with my mom in Canada, 562 00:34:50,384 --> 00:34:53,513 and not talking to any of my friends. 563 00:34:53,596 --> 00:34:56,432 I mean, I was pursued by the federal government 564 00:34:56,516 --> 00:34:57,892 for two years. 565 00:34:57,975 --> 00:34:59,268 Um, 566 00:34:59,352 --> 00:35:02,522 there's a possibility they may still arrest me 567 00:35:02,605 --> 00:35:04,440 because I'm doing this. 568 00:35:05,108 --> 00:35:07,151 But at this point, 569 00:35:08,069 --> 00:35:09,570 Keith's sentencing is coming up, 570 00:35:09,654 --> 00:35:11,906 and we have to do something. 571 00:35:16,035 --> 00:35:17,995 -(PAPERS RUSTLING) -EDUARDO ASUNSOLO: Okay. 572 00:35:20,164 --> 00:35:21,290 Yeah, so, dude, so we're-- 573 00:35:21,374 --> 00:35:23,543 we're going to be serving the affidavit today. 574 00:35:24,335 --> 00:35:25,753 Yeah, "holy shit" is right. 575 00:35:27,922 --> 00:35:31,676 We're going to serve the prosecutors 576 00:35:31,759 --> 00:35:35,388 in Keith's case with the affidavit. 577 00:35:35,471 --> 00:35:37,473 NICKI: Keith talked all about the affidavit 578 00:35:37,557 --> 00:35:40,309 with Suneel, over months and months. 579 00:35:40,393 --> 00:35:42,353 It lays out statements 580 00:35:42,436 --> 00:35:45,648 that any prosecutor should be able to affirm. 581 00:35:45,731 --> 00:35:47,441 KEITH: We didn't tamper with evidence. 582 00:35:47,525 --> 00:35:48,901 NICKI: I did not lie to the court. 583 00:35:48,985 --> 00:35:50,194 I did not lie to the public. 584 00:35:50,278 --> 00:35:52,947 Basically, give this person a fair trial. 585 00:35:53,030 --> 00:35:54,866 MICHELE HATCHETTE: The goal is to get 586 00:35:54,949 --> 00:35:57,201 the sentencing dismissed 587 00:35:57,285 --> 00:35:59,370 by putting pressure on the judge 588 00:35:59,453 --> 00:36:02,039 through the media. You know, that should be cause enough 589 00:36:02,123 --> 00:36:03,708 for the judge to say, "You know what? 590 00:36:03,791 --> 00:36:05,334 We need to put sentencing off." 591 00:36:06,544 --> 00:36:07,879 -SUPPORTER: Hey! -SUNEEL: That's great. Okay. 592 00:36:07,962 --> 00:36:09,589 -Shall we roll, guys? -MARC ELLIOT: Let's roll. 593 00:36:09,672 --> 00:36:11,465 -It's time? -MARC: Let's do it. 594 00:36:14,677 --> 00:36:17,597 NICKI: We are going to Moira Penza's office 595 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,224 to deliver the affidavit to her. 596 00:36:22,685 --> 00:36:25,396 So we're trying to make it so that we all go up. 597 00:36:25,479 --> 00:36:27,106 MICHELE: Or Nicki and I can go. 598 00:36:27,732 --> 00:36:29,317 I mean, yeah. My... 599 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:34,572 I want to go. I-- Strategically, I don't want to fuck myself. 600 00:36:34,655 --> 00:36:36,157 That's the only thing, like... 601 00:36:38,159 --> 00:36:39,493 Yeah, we're just downstairs. 602 00:36:39,577 --> 00:36:41,954 We wanted to deliver a document to the firm. 603 00:36:43,497 --> 00:36:45,750 MOIRA: So I got a call from 604 00:36:45,833 --> 00:36:48,002 an employee in my New York office, 605 00:36:48,085 --> 00:36:51,255 who said that there was 606 00:36:51,339 --> 00:36:56,302 somebody asking to go upstairs at our offices. 607 00:36:56,385 --> 00:36:58,888 -VOICE ON PHONE: Who is it? -Yes, it's Eduardo. 608 00:37:00,222 --> 00:37:04,477 MOIRA: A person I knew to be a member of NXIVM 609 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,229 is in my lobby trying to get upstairs. 610 00:37:08,689 --> 00:37:10,942 With COVID, I'm one of the only people 611 00:37:11,025 --> 00:37:13,235 who goes into my New York office. 612 00:37:14,570 --> 00:37:18,449 So the idea that that was happening was frightening. 613 00:37:18,532 --> 00:37:23,371 I sent a cease and desist email to Marc Agnifilo that night, 614 00:37:23,454 --> 00:37:26,248 letting him know that if anyone else 615 00:37:26,332 --> 00:37:31,754 from NXIVM came to my office at Keith Raniere's direction, 616 00:37:31,837 --> 00:37:34,048 that I would be taking additional steps 617 00:37:34,131 --> 00:37:35,424 to protect my safety. 618 00:37:36,676 --> 00:37:37,843 SUNEEL: You could text it to her. 619 00:37:37,927 --> 00:37:39,720 NICKI: Or her email. You're sending her 620 00:37:39,804 --> 00:37:41,097 an email, right? SUNEEL: Subject line, 621 00:37:41,180 --> 00:37:43,599 "Will you support public accountability?" 622 00:37:43,683 --> 00:37:45,685 -There you go. -NICKI: That's nicer, yeah. 623 00:37:45,768 --> 00:37:47,186 I think we really don't want, 624 00:37:47,269 --> 00:37:49,855 in any way, to come across as threatening or-- 625 00:37:49,939 --> 00:37:51,482 Well, it literally says 626 00:37:51,565 --> 00:37:53,442 "dirty prosecution" on our website. 627 00:37:55,361 --> 00:37:57,571 I don't even know how to describe it, frankly. 628 00:37:57,655 --> 00:38:00,700 (LAUGHS NERVOUSLY) I mean, it's-- it's a... 629 00:38:01,534 --> 00:38:04,453 I've never seen such a document, 630 00:38:04,537 --> 00:38:06,998 or anything like that in any other case. 631 00:38:07,081 --> 00:38:12,086 I mean, every single day that we stood up in court, 632 00:38:12,169 --> 00:38:15,756 everything was done with so much process. 633 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:20,219 I mean, Keith Raniere had the best defense money can buy. 634 00:38:20,302 --> 00:38:22,930 All of this is, is a sideshow, 635 00:38:23,014 --> 00:38:25,850 and this is exactly how Keith Raniere operates. 636 00:38:25,933 --> 00:38:27,810 And this is just more manipulation 637 00:38:27,893 --> 00:38:29,895 by Keith Raniere and his followers. 638 00:38:31,147 --> 00:38:33,232 -Ready to go? -Ready to go! 639 00:38:33,315 --> 00:38:35,693 -Do it! -Sent! 640 00:38:35,776 --> 00:38:37,862 Okay, let's get an email out to the press, ASAP. 641 00:38:37,945 --> 00:38:39,572 -Let's go. -EDUARDO: Vámonos. 642 00:38:41,782 --> 00:38:43,784 MICHELE: Whoo! Tonight's going to be lit. 643 00:38:45,119 --> 00:38:47,580 -(CAR HORN BLARING) -(BASS-HEAVY TECHNO PLAYING) 644 00:38:49,957 --> 00:38:52,501 (PRISONERS CHEERING, WHISTLING) 645 00:38:54,462 --> 00:38:56,672 ♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES PLAYING) ♪ 646 00:39:13,773 --> 00:39:15,149 (BASS-HEAVY TECHNO FADING) 647 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,821 ♪ (TENDER ORCHESTRAL MUSIC) ♪ 648 00:39:21,155 --> 00:39:22,907 SUNEEL: 649 00:39:39,799 --> 00:39:44,845 ♪ (MUSIC BUILDS) ♪ 650 00:39:54,355 --> 00:39:56,816 (BASS-HEAVY TECHNO RESUMES) 651 00:40:05,116 --> 00:40:08,702 ♪ (BASS-HEAVY TECHNO MUSIC FADES) ♪ 652 00:40:11,580 --> 00:40:13,791 (EXHALES HEAVILY) 653 00:40:18,712 --> 00:40:19,880 Um... 654 00:40:21,215 --> 00:40:23,467 I just got an email from... 655 00:40:24,885 --> 00:40:29,223 my lawyer saying he, uh, can't defend me anymore. 656 00:40:33,060 --> 00:40:34,353 ♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 657 00:40:37,106 --> 00:40:41,652 Uh, he says that I've engaged in too many actions 658 00:40:41,735 --> 00:40:43,362 contrary to his advice. 659 00:40:48,284 --> 00:40:50,369 I'm-- (VOICE CRACKS) I'm just shocked. 660 00:40:54,415 --> 00:40:55,583 (INHALES DEEPLY) 661 00:40:56,542 --> 00:40:58,085 (EXHALES) 662 00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:01,922 (BIRDS TWEETING) 663 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:06,802 (CAT PURRING) 664 00:41:08,721 --> 00:41:11,265 (PURRS) 665 00:41:11,348 --> 00:41:13,184 NANCY: I'm waiting for my sentencing. 666 00:41:15,269 --> 00:41:17,855 Lauren and I will be sentenced after Keith. 667 00:41:21,108 --> 00:41:23,527 I'm scared for Lauren, and I'm scared for me. 668 00:41:27,698 --> 00:41:30,784 And so, I'm going home to see my parents. 669 00:41:40,753 --> 00:41:43,422 When I was working with Keith, 670 00:41:43,505 --> 00:41:45,591 I was very committed to what I was doing, 671 00:41:45,674 --> 00:41:48,093 and I would work until I fell into bed at night. 672 00:41:48,177 --> 00:41:50,846 And I didn't see my parents a lot. 673 00:41:50,930 --> 00:41:53,140 And part of the reason I didn't see my parents 674 00:41:53,224 --> 00:41:55,100 was because... 675 00:41:55,184 --> 00:41:58,729 he didn't like when I wasn't focused on my work. 676 00:41:59,980 --> 00:42:03,651 When all of-- everything started to fall apart, 677 00:42:03,734 --> 00:42:07,655 I started to come home more, and I realized that my parents 678 00:42:07,738 --> 00:42:08,781 were not doing well. 679 00:42:10,616 --> 00:42:14,119 I mean, who has their parents at 91 and 92? 680 00:42:20,668 --> 00:42:22,711 I don't want to give you 681 00:42:22,795 --> 00:42:24,463 something sweet to eat with your coffee 682 00:42:24,546 --> 00:42:26,090 like you usually have 683 00:42:26,173 --> 00:42:27,967 because I want to make these eggs 684 00:42:28,050 --> 00:42:29,426 that are very unique, 685 00:42:29,510 --> 00:42:32,137 and I think you're going to like them. And some bagels? 686 00:42:32,221 --> 00:42:34,598 So we'll eat bagels and eggs in a little bit. 687 00:42:34,682 --> 00:42:37,726 I am the boss. That's right, I'm the boss. 688 00:42:37,810 --> 00:42:41,146 -Nancy's my boss. -(NANCY LAUGHS) 689 00:42:41,230 --> 00:42:44,650 NANCY: I feel like every minute I have is like a gift. 690 00:42:48,696 --> 00:42:49,780 -Nancy? -NANCY: Yeah. 691 00:42:49,863 --> 00:42:53,284 -Can I have the computer? -NANCY: Yes. 692 00:42:53,367 --> 00:42:56,704 When my father was in the hospital, he almost died. 693 00:42:58,330 --> 00:42:59,832 Let me fix your pillow. It doesn't look good. 694 00:42:59,915 --> 00:43:01,375 -I like that. -You like that? 695 00:43:01,458 --> 00:43:02,584 How about this little one? 696 00:43:02,668 --> 00:43:05,504 I love this little pillow for you. Instead of this. 697 00:43:05,587 --> 00:43:08,799 I asked the doctor if I could take him home to die. 698 00:43:10,134 --> 00:43:11,176 And when he came home 699 00:43:11,260 --> 00:43:14,596 and I started taking care of him, he got better. 700 00:43:15,723 --> 00:43:18,225 -Yeah, that's good. -That's good? 701 00:43:18,309 --> 00:43:22,021 -NANCY'S FATHER: Okay. -Okay, perfect. That was good. 702 00:43:22,104 --> 00:43:24,398 I would give you an E for excellent. 703 00:43:24,481 --> 00:43:27,067 -NANCY: An E for excellent. -(BOTH LAUGH) 704 00:43:27,151 --> 00:43:28,610 NANCY: Being in his own surroundings 705 00:43:28,694 --> 00:43:31,572 and being with his wife, is why he's alive. 706 00:43:33,240 --> 00:43:34,992 I'm certain that they won't survive 707 00:43:35,075 --> 00:43:38,078 if they go into a nursing facility. 708 00:43:40,789 --> 00:43:43,083 And if I go to jail, they have to. 709 00:43:48,297 --> 00:43:51,008 So I just got this from my lawyer. 710 00:43:51,967 --> 00:43:54,219 This is the sentencing date schedule. 711 00:43:55,387 --> 00:43:57,306 "Delaying until after the holidays 712 00:43:57,389 --> 00:43:58,640 is not a problem at all. 713 00:43:58,724 --> 00:44:02,061 I hope Miss Salzman is able to enjoy her holidays at least." 714 00:44:02,144 --> 00:44:03,520 So that's nice. 715 00:44:03,604 --> 00:44:08,692 Or maybe she means, at least. I don't know what she means. 716 00:44:10,152 --> 00:44:11,987 "I mostly want to confirm the info 717 00:44:12,071 --> 00:44:14,823 that Miss Salzman provided. And also, 718 00:44:14,907 --> 00:44:16,700 if you're comfortable with her discussing 719 00:44:16,784 --> 00:44:18,577 her personal relationships, 720 00:44:18,660 --> 00:44:20,329 I think it would be useful for the court 721 00:44:20,412 --> 00:44:22,664 to put Miss Salzman's personal relationship 722 00:44:22,748 --> 00:44:25,459 with Mr. Raniere in context." 723 00:44:29,588 --> 00:44:31,715 So best case scenario, obviously, is... 724 00:44:32,674 --> 00:44:35,552 you're not going to jail. (LAUGHS) 725 00:44:35,636 --> 00:44:38,430 I can't even believe these words are coming out of my mouth. 726 00:44:38,514 --> 00:44:42,434 You're not going to jail. Worst case is anything else. 727 00:44:42,518 --> 00:44:45,104 (LAUGHS) For me. 728 00:44:47,564 --> 00:44:49,441 You know, my biggest concern is that 729 00:44:49,525 --> 00:44:52,903 if I go to jail, somebody has to take care of my parents. 730 00:44:54,363 --> 00:44:56,949 And that's the scariest part for me. 731 00:44:57,032 --> 00:44:58,283 -Hello. -NANCY'S MOM: These yours? 732 00:44:58,367 --> 00:45:00,619 -NANCY: No, they're yours. -Whose are they? 733 00:45:00,702 --> 00:45:01,995 NANCY: They're yours. 734 00:45:05,499 --> 00:45:07,918 -I don't think so. -NANCY: Yeah, they're yours. 735 00:45:11,505 --> 00:45:14,383 I think we should be talking about this right now. 736 00:45:19,555 --> 00:45:22,474 I never talk about this in front of her. 737 00:45:22,558 --> 00:45:24,560 Just so you guys know. Never. 738 00:45:26,186 --> 00:45:28,772 It will not be until it's about to happen, 739 00:45:28,856 --> 00:45:30,441 that it'll be a discussion. 740 00:45:32,317 --> 00:45:33,444 (SNIFFS) 741 00:45:35,112 --> 00:45:39,116 Was she listening? Okay. 'Cause she does. 742 00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:41,869 ♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 743 00:45:48,542 --> 00:45:50,627 There's something I've never told people. 744 00:45:52,296 --> 00:45:54,131 But I think I have to say... 745 00:45:56,175 --> 00:45:57,301 it's very hard. 746 00:45:58,677 --> 00:46:03,265 My lawyers told me I should write a letter to the judge. 747 00:46:03,348 --> 00:46:05,017 I'm going to read you parts of it. 748 00:46:07,311 --> 00:46:10,147 "So in the early days, I was totally honest with Keith. 749 00:46:10,230 --> 00:46:12,316 So he learned a lot about my depression. 750 00:46:12,399 --> 00:46:14,902 I told him about my relationship problems, 751 00:46:14,985 --> 00:46:16,612 and Keith instructed me 752 00:46:16,695 --> 00:46:18,447 not to get into another relationship 753 00:46:18,530 --> 00:46:20,532 until I work my dependency issues. 754 00:46:21,575 --> 00:46:23,869 Then he became very affectionate toward me, 755 00:46:23,952 --> 00:46:26,163 and made sexual advances. 756 00:46:26,246 --> 00:46:28,332 He did not force me in any way. 757 00:46:28,415 --> 00:46:30,667 It was a very brief sexual relationship. 758 00:46:32,711 --> 00:46:35,047 He abruptly ended our physical relationship, 759 00:46:35,130 --> 00:46:37,549 and he asked me to commit 760 00:46:37,633 --> 00:46:39,635 to never beginning another relationship 761 00:46:39,718 --> 00:46:42,638 with anyone or getting involved with another man 762 00:46:42,721 --> 00:46:44,515 without discussing it with him first." 763 00:46:45,807 --> 00:46:48,143 ♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪ 764 00:46:48,227 --> 00:46:49,394 So I just... 765 00:46:49,478 --> 00:46:52,022 I never had another relationship for 20 years. 766 00:46:55,234 --> 00:46:56,485 (SIGHS) 767 00:46:57,277 --> 00:46:58,612 Buried myself in my work. 768 00:47:02,616 --> 00:47:05,702 I think I felt tremendous shame. 769 00:47:08,831 --> 00:47:10,707 I didn't sleep with a lot of people in my life. 770 00:47:10,791 --> 00:47:14,253 It's not like that was something I did... 771 00:47:15,295 --> 00:47:16,922 but there was always this... 772 00:47:18,632 --> 00:47:22,636 thing where he had all these relationships, 773 00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:27,182 but he didn't with me. And it wasn't that I wanted to 774 00:47:27,266 --> 00:47:30,394 have a relationship with him, but it always was like, 775 00:47:30,477 --> 00:47:34,398 why did he do that to me? And I always felt ashamed of it. 776 00:47:34,481 --> 00:47:36,149 And he never wanted anyone to know. 777 00:47:38,193 --> 00:47:40,070 But it felt worse when he started having sex 778 00:47:40,153 --> 00:47:41,196 with my daughter. 779 00:47:49,204 --> 00:47:51,748 (SEAGULLS SQUAWKING) 780 00:47:53,542 --> 00:47:55,252 (CAR HORN HONKS) 781 00:47:55,335 --> 00:47:56,461 (NICKI HUMMING) 782 00:47:58,922 --> 00:48:00,799 (TRILLS LIPS) 783 00:48:00,882 --> 00:48:03,510 This is always my problem. Nothing. 784 00:48:03,594 --> 00:48:08,307 The media, we hope, will expose the injustices 785 00:48:08,390 --> 00:48:09,766 in Keith's case. 786 00:48:11,018 --> 00:48:15,230 So we have our first on-camera interview 787 00:48:15,314 --> 00:48:16,857 with a major news outlet. 788 00:48:19,401 --> 00:48:20,944 It's a big deal. 789 00:48:22,904 --> 00:48:24,948 NIKKI BATTISTE: Mark, Suneel, Eduardo, 790 00:48:25,032 --> 00:48:28,035 Michele, and Nicki have not spoken publicly 791 00:48:28,118 --> 00:48:30,954 about their time in NXIVM until now. 792 00:48:31,038 --> 00:48:34,333 Raise your hand if you are or were a member of DOS. 793 00:48:37,127 --> 00:48:39,755 -During Raniere's trial... -This is not good for her. 794 00:48:39,838 --> 00:48:42,299 ...a former member of DOS said she was a recruiter for Raniere. 795 00:48:42,382 --> 00:48:45,469 We're not denying that certain things, 796 00:48:45,552 --> 00:48:49,723 uh, took place. There's evidence that certain things happened. 797 00:48:49,806 --> 00:48:51,808 How they happened, why they happened, 798 00:48:51,892 --> 00:48:53,935 and why certain people chose them, 799 00:48:54,019 --> 00:48:55,771 that's a whole other conversation. 800 00:48:55,854 --> 00:48:57,356 Were women in DOS 801 00:48:57,439 --> 00:48:59,358 having sexual relations with Keith? 802 00:48:59,441 --> 00:49:02,152 Did either of you have sexual relations with Keith? 803 00:49:02,235 --> 00:49:03,779 We want to talk about DOS. 804 00:49:03,862 --> 00:49:05,113 -That's a yes or no question. -Yeah. 805 00:49:05,197 --> 00:49:07,366 And I just want to step back a little bit, 806 00:49:07,449 --> 00:49:11,244 because, you know, if I went up to you and I asked you, 807 00:49:11,328 --> 00:49:13,372 "How many people have you had sex with?" 808 00:49:13,455 --> 00:49:14,539 It's none of my business. 809 00:49:14,623 --> 00:49:16,458 NIKKI: On Friday, the group delivered 810 00:49:16,541 --> 00:49:18,001 an affidavit to prosecutors 811 00:49:18,085 --> 00:49:20,587 asking them to affirm they acted ethically. 812 00:49:20,671 --> 00:49:23,715 Federal prosecutors declined to comment on the allegations 813 00:49:23,799 --> 00:49:26,718 and the affidavit, but they shared a court filing 814 00:49:26,802 --> 00:49:29,554 containing emails that appear to show Keith Raniere 815 00:49:29,638 --> 00:49:32,432 helped orchestrate the affidavit from prison. 816 00:49:32,516 --> 00:49:35,227 A lawyer representing dozens of Raniere's victims 817 00:49:35,310 --> 00:49:37,479 calls the affidavit "a publicity stunt." 818 00:49:40,023 --> 00:49:42,109 I don't know what to say to that. 819 00:49:44,486 --> 00:49:46,530 -It's not going to end well. -SARAH: Nope. 820 00:49:47,406 --> 00:49:48,407 'Cause they're just lying 821 00:49:48,490 --> 00:49:49,783 in order to maintain their narrative. 822 00:49:49,866 --> 00:49:54,663 They have to make so many people's truth, 823 00:49:54,746 --> 00:49:57,624 abuse, and stories, fiction. 824 00:49:57,708 --> 00:50:00,669 And there's a Mount Everest of intel, 825 00:50:00,752 --> 00:50:04,548 that they just have to attack the process 826 00:50:04,631 --> 00:50:05,590 of the courts 827 00:50:05,674 --> 00:50:08,135 and attack the character of the people. 828 00:50:08,218 --> 00:50:10,846 Rather than refute seven counts, convicted. 829 00:50:10,929 --> 00:50:12,472 Yeah. They couldn't even answer the questions. 830 00:50:12,556 --> 00:50:13,849 They can't. They don't. 831 00:50:13,932 --> 00:50:17,102 And that's why they're having their trial outside the trial. 832 00:50:20,313 --> 00:50:23,316 NEWS ANCHOR: Only on CBS This Morning, Nikki Battiste 833 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,444 spoke with supporters of the Raniere and they claim 834 00:50:25,527 --> 00:50:28,530 he should not have been convicted in the first place. 835 00:50:28,613 --> 00:50:30,532 If you could go back, would you still have 836 00:50:30,615 --> 00:50:33,744 been involved with Keith and NXIVM? 837 00:50:33,827 --> 00:50:37,247 Yeah. I wouldn't trade any of my experiences for anything. 838 00:50:39,166 --> 00:50:40,208 NEWS ANCHOR: Federal pro-- 839 00:50:45,130 --> 00:50:50,135 I haven't seen Nicki in years, but for whatever reason, 840 00:50:50,218 --> 00:50:53,263 she can't see that this isn't good for her. 841 00:50:55,724 --> 00:50:59,186 I think she's in a battle with her own mind 842 00:50:59,269 --> 00:51:02,147 I think all of the people who are still loyal to him 843 00:51:02,230 --> 00:51:04,733 are having an internal struggle. 844 00:51:14,451 --> 00:51:19,331 So these people have some belief 845 00:51:19,414 --> 00:51:23,210 that he didn't do anything bad. 846 00:51:25,420 --> 00:51:29,007 What I've heard is, "I never had a bad experience with Keith" 847 00:51:29,090 --> 00:51:31,760 and therefore, it's like saying, 848 00:51:31,843 --> 00:51:36,056 "I never had a bad experience you know, in the ocean, 849 00:51:36,139 --> 00:51:38,850 so it's impossible I could drown." 850 00:51:38,934 --> 00:51:42,145 "I never had a bad experience with Keith Raniere personally 851 00:51:42,229 --> 00:51:45,899 and my experience is my experience." 852 00:51:45,982 --> 00:51:48,527 And I say to them, 853 00:51:48,610 --> 00:51:51,154 "And my experience is my experience." 854 00:52:00,372 --> 00:52:02,165 Most mornings he would come over, 855 00:52:02,249 --> 00:52:03,959 and I would make him breakfast. 856 00:52:05,752 --> 00:52:08,004 He would stay, like, a while. 857 00:52:11,216 --> 00:52:13,969 And he'd get a bunch of calls from all of these people. 858 00:52:14,052 --> 00:52:15,053 Hello. 859 00:52:15,136 --> 00:52:17,222 And he would tell them all he was at my house. 860 00:52:17,305 --> 00:52:19,599 They must have thought he was working... 861 00:52:20,892 --> 00:52:22,561 but he was never working. 862 00:52:22,644 --> 00:52:25,772 He was usually laying on my couch after he ate. 863 00:52:28,358 --> 00:52:31,653 He came to my house on this particular morning, 864 00:52:31,736 --> 00:52:35,949 and he said, "I need you to do something." 865 00:52:36,032 --> 00:52:37,993 And I said, "What?" And he said... 866 00:52:39,619 --> 00:52:41,037 "Pam had an accident. 867 00:52:41,955 --> 00:52:43,748 Would you change the bed?" 868 00:52:44,457 --> 00:52:47,127 Pam was wasting away. 869 00:52:47,210 --> 00:52:50,046 You know what people look like when they're dying of cancer? 870 00:52:50,130 --> 00:52:52,299 It was very clear she was dying. 871 00:52:52,382 --> 00:52:55,719 And I said, "Of course." I mean, I'm a nurse. 872 00:52:55,802 --> 00:52:57,220 And I started asking questions. 873 00:52:57,304 --> 00:52:59,598 "You don't have to go right now, it's okay." 874 00:52:59,681 --> 00:53:03,268 And I said, "Well, if she's in a wet bed, 875 00:53:03,351 --> 00:53:06,563 let me go change it. I don't want her to get a bedsore. 876 00:53:06,646 --> 00:53:10,108 She can't get out of bed." And he said, 877 00:53:10,191 --> 00:53:12,944 "She's fine. Make me breakfast." 878 00:53:15,655 --> 00:53:17,449 So I made him breakfast, and then, 879 00:53:17,532 --> 00:53:20,243 as he was eating, I said, "Why don't I go now?" 880 00:53:20,327 --> 00:53:23,747 "No," he said, "You can sit and talk with me." 881 00:53:23,830 --> 00:53:26,374 So I thought it wasn't, like, an urgent thing. 882 00:53:27,876 --> 00:53:29,085 I get there... 883 00:53:30,754 --> 00:53:33,214 and she had defecated... 884 00:53:35,550 --> 00:53:40,305 all over herself, and he let her stay in that 885 00:53:40,388 --> 00:53:43,016 while he ate breakfast in my house. 886 00:53:45,727 --> 00:53:48,980 I felt so upset 887 00:53:49,064 --> 00:53:52,192 that he would let her stay that way. 888 00:53:53,777 --> 00:53:58,281 And she was out of it. 889 00:53:58,365 --> 00:54:00,283 She was really out of it. 890 00:54:00,367 --> 00:54:03,119 She wasn't unconscious. Her eyes kept opening, 891 00:54:03,203 --> 00:54:06,206 but they were kind of unfocused. 892 00:54:06,289 --> 00:54:10,502 And I said, "We have to call an ambulance. She's dying." 893 00:54:14,130 --> 00:54:17,175 It wasn't the same after that with me, with him. 894 00:54:20,136 --> 00:54:24,140 He doesn't care about any of us. It was very clear to me. 895 00:54:27,227 --> 00:54:29,813 This bottle is very valuable to me right now 896 00:54:29,896 --> 00:54:32,107 because I'm thirsty and there's water in it. 897 00:54:32,190 --> 00:54:35,986 But when I'm not thirsty, I can just put it down and walk away. 898 00:54:36,069 --> 00:54:37,737 That's how Keith treated us. 899 00:54:41,408 --> 00:54:43,326 People are utilities to Keith. 900 00:54:44,577 --> 00:54:45,745 That's it. 901 00:54:47,247 --> 00:54:54,045 -♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ -(SIRENS WAILING) 902 00:54:54,129 --> 00:54:55,672 AUTOMATIC VOICE: You have a prepaid call. 903 00:54:55,755 --> 00:54:57,382 This call is from... 904 00:54:57,465 --> 00:54:58,550 KEITH: Raniere. 905 00:54:58,633 --> 00:54:59,801 (PHONE BEEPS) 906 00:55:27,787 --> 00:55:30,582 NICKI: We're meeting with a journalist, 907 00:55:30,665 --> 00:55:32,876 and as far as I know, she's a freelancer. 908 00:55:32,959 --> 00:55:36,129 But the bylines that I saw were with Rolling Stone 909 00:55:36,212 --> 00:55:38,631 and The New Republic. 910 00:55:38,715 --> 00:55:41,342 Hopefully, she can be someone who can 911 00:55:41,426 --> 00:55:43,553 bring a counterweight 912 00:55:43,636 --> 00:55:46,723 to the hate that we're experiencing. 913 00:55:46,806 --> 00:55:48,433 AMANDA ROBB: Talk to me about your story. 914 00:55:50,185 --> 00:55:53,354 NICKI: Right now, there's so much salaciousness, 915 00:55:53,438 --> 00:55:56,608 scandal, like, all of this bullshit 916 00:55:56,691 --> 00:55:59,527 that-- like, even the word "cult," 917 00:55:59,611 --> 00:56:02,655 like, what is that? What is a sex cult? 918 00:56:02,739 --> 00:56:07,035 We want brave journalists that want to cover it with us. 919 00:56:07,118 --> 00:56:08,870 AMANDA: I think that-- I personally-- 920 00:56:08,953 --> 00:56:10,288 No one is going to buy the story 921 00:56:10,371 --> 00:56:11,748 that you guys want to tell right now. 922 00:56:11,831 --> 00:56:13,041 It's just not going to happen. 923 00:56:14,209 --> 00:56:17,128 There is an article to be written about 924 00:56:17,212 --> 00:56:20,465 how you guys are going to rebuild your lives now. 925 00:56:20,548 --> 00:56:22,634 Like, you are obviously people that need to be 926 00:56:22,717 --> 00:56:25,678 part of something bigger than yourselves. 927 00:56:25,762 --> 00:56:30,767 And you are still very much in the middle of that process. 928 00:56:31,684 --> 00:56:34,145 Keith hasn't been sentenced... 929 00:56:34,229 --> 00:56:36,606 and I imagine you guys are going to have to figure out 930 00:56:36,689 --> 00:56:39,818 what you're doing for work, who you're going to be, 931 00:56:39,901 --> 00:56:42,070 what your intimate relationships are going to be, 932 00:56:42,153 --> 00:56:43,196 how you're going to live, 933 00:56:43,279 --> 00:56:44,823 how you're going to support yourself. 934 00:56:46,199 --> 00:56:49,077 I'm willing to go on that journey with you, 935 00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:51,913 but if you want that kind of story told, 936 00:56:51,996 --> 00:56:53,623 that's what it's going to take. 937 00:57:03,675 --> 00:57:05,176 NEWS ANCHOR 1: Happening tomorrow, 938 00:57:05,260 --> 00:57:07,804 sentencing day for disgraced Upstate New York's 939 00:57:07,887 --> 00:57:09,639 self-improvement guru. 940 00:57:09,722 --> 00:57:11,224 NEWS ANCHOR 2: Keith Raniere was convicted 941 00:57:11,307 --> 00:57:15,854 of turning women into sex slaves in his NXIVM organization. 942 00:57:15,937 --> 00:57:18,690 NEWS ANCHOR 3: A judge will consider impact statements 943 00:57:18,773 --> 00:57:20,775 from over 100 victims. 944 00:57:27,323 --> 00:57:28,366 (NANCY GASPS) 945 00:57:32,412 --> 00:57:35,498 Camila is going to appear at Keith's sentencing, 946 00:57:35,582 --> 00:57:38,835 and she filed a victim statement. 947 00:57:38,918 --> 00:57:40,879 The government expects that Camila will attend 948 00:57:40,962 --> 00:57:43,590 Raniere's sentencing on October 27th, 949 00:57:43,673 --> 00:57:47,135 and may wish to address the court further at that time. 950 00:57:47,635 --> 00:57:49,220 That's amazing. 951 00:57:51,973 --> 00:57:53,099 I'm a bit shocked. 952 00:57:54,642 --> 00:57:56,811 I never thought she would turn. 953 00:57:56,895 --> 00:57:59,147 I thought that she was still supporting him. 954 00:57:59,230 --> 00:58:01,983 ♪ (GENTLE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 955 00:58:03,484 --> 00:58:05,445 NANCY: I think this is going to 956 00:58:05,528 --> 00:58:07,405 impact the ones he does have left. 957 00:58:09,657 --> 00:58:10,700 It has to. 958 00:58:21,878 --> 00:58:25,215 Yeah, when I read the filing about... 959 00:58:25,298 --> 00:58:29,093 um, Cami being at the sentencing... 960 00:58:31,054 --> 00:58:32,263 I was shocked. 961 00:58:34,224 --> 00:58:38,269 So, I don't... I imagine it's going to be very damaging. 962 00:58:39,812 --> 00:58:43,191 ♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 963 00:58:46,569 --> 00:58:49,948 Yeah, I feel sick to my stomach pretty much all the time. 964 00:58:51,532 --> 00:58:52,533 And... 965 00:59:00,166 --> 00:59:03,002 Yeah, I don't know. I think today in particular, 966 00:59:03,086 --> 00:59:08,633 I just feel... more. I think that sometimes 967 00:59:08,716 --> 00:59:11,469 the work can be a bit of a distraction 968 00:59:11,552 --> 00:59:15,556 from why we're doing it in the first place, and... 969 00:59:17,141 --> 00:59:21,312 um, from feeling the pain of what's happened 970 00:59:21,396 --> 00:59:22,647 to our friends. 971 00:59:22,730 --> 00:59:26,985 And... sometimes it catches up with you. 972 00:59:33,283 --> 00:59:35,326 ♪ (MUSIC FADING) ♪ 973 00:59:35,410 --> 00:59:36,661 NEWS ANCHOR: Convicted sex cult leader, 974 00:59:36,744 --> 00:59:39,080 Keith Raniere, is expected to be sentenced. 975 00:59:39,163 --> 00:59:41,124 NEWS ANCHOR 2: The charges he was convicted of include 976 00:59:41,207 --> 00:59:45,878 racketeering, sex trafficking, sexual exploitation of a child. 977 00:59:45,962 --> 00:59:48,047 NEWS ANCHOR 3: Federal prosecutors have asked that 978 00:59:48,131 --> 00:59:52,051 Raniere face life in prison. However, his defense lawyers say 979 00:59:52,135 --> 00:59:56,472 that something like 15 years would more suit his crime. 980 00:59:56,556 --> 00:59:59,017 NEWS ANCHOR 4: Today in court, he will be listening to hours 981 00:59:59,100 --> 01:00:00,685 of statements from some of his victims 982 01:00:00,768 --> 01:00:03,646 and to a judge who could put him away for good. 983 01:00:11,571 --> 01:00:15,491 MARC: It might be the hardest day of my professional career. 984 01:00:15,575 --> 01:00:18,328 Keith ends almost every one of our meetings, 985 01:00:18,411 --> 01:00:20,121 "My life is in your hands." 986 01:00:27,128 --> 01:00:29,630 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 987 01:00:40,725 --> 01:00:43,227 JUDGE: This is the sentencing of Keith Raniere, 988 01:00:43,311 --> 01:00:46,689 who was convicted by a jury of numerous counts. 989 01:00:46,773 --> 01:00:49,150 We have victim statements that will be made 990 01:00:49,233 --> 01:00:51,819 either in person, or by video or audio. 991 01:00:53,029 --> 01:00:54,864 You may proceed when you are ready. 992 01:00:58,284 --> 01:01:01,704 VERO JASPEADO: I was used and manipulated for ten years. 993 01:01:01,788 --> 01:01:04,123 Ten years that I just can't recover. 994 01:01:05,625 --> 01:01:07,877 My innocence and my strong will to better things 995 01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:10,171 in the world was used against me. 996 01:01:11,881 --> 01:01:14,842 You used to tell me the antidote for pride 997 01:01:15,385 --> 01:01:16,761 is humiliation. 998 01:01:18,513 --> 01:01:21,057 The most productive humiliation 999 01:01:21,140 --> 01:01:25,978 is obtained through obedience, and it leads to true freedom. 1000 01:01:27,105 --> 01:01:30,525 Well, now you have that opportunity in your hands. 1001 01:01:34,445 --> 01:01:36,656 DANIELA: You abused my innocent body, 1002 01:01:36,739 --> 01:01:38,324 you broke my able mind, 1003 01:01:38,408 --> 01:01:41,119 and you set my family against me. 1004 01:01:41,202 --> 01:01:44,497 I survived, but not because you were merciful, 1005 01:01:44,580 --> 01:01:46,374 but because I was resilient. 1006 01:01:47,500 --> 01:01:50,878 I find relief in knowing that this is over. 1007 01:01:50,962 --> 01:01:54,006 I find relief in forgetting about you. 1008 01:01:54,090 --> 01:01:57,218 And this is the last time you will hold my attention. 1009 01:01:59,011 --> 01:02:02,265 And last, as the court sentences Keith Raniere, 1010 01:02:02,348 --> 01:02:05,601 I would like to remind them that he showed me no mercy. 1011 01:02:05,685 --> 01:02:08,146 He showed my little sister no mercy. 1012 01:02:09,147 --> 01:02:10,982 He deserves no mercy. 1013 01:02:17,196 --> 01:02:21,075 CAMILA: Good morning, Your Honor. My name is Camila 1014 01:02:21,159 --> 01:02:24,537 and I'm ready to retain my voice and to stand up for myself. 1015 01:02:26,038 --> 01:02:28,958 I met him when I was just 13. 1016 01:02:29,041 --> 01:02:31,127 The first time I was left to have a conversation 1017 01:02:31,210 --> 01:02:32,712 alone with him, 1018 01:02:32,795 --> 01:02:34,589 we talked about how I placed second 1019 01:02:34,672 --> 01:02:36,799 in my eighth grade spelling bee contest. 1020 01:02:38,134 --> 01:02:41,888 He first had sex with me on September 18th, 2005. 1021 01:02:42,847 --> 01:02:45,850 I was 15. He was 45. 1022 01:02:47,977 --> 01:02:51,898 He would often take me to his executive library. 1023 01:02:51,981 --> 01:02:55,693 During these secret meetings, when I was still 15, 1024 01:02:55,776 --> 01:02:58,488 he took naked pictures of me. 1025 01:02:58,571 --> 01:03:01,324 The experience of being photographed is seared 1026 01:03:01,407 --> 01:03:02,533 into my memory. 1027 01:03:03,367 --> 01:03:05,328 As a 15-year-old, 1028 01:03:05,411 --> 01:03:07,788 this is not something you easily forget. 1029 01:03:10,666 --> 01:03:14,670 We had sexual contact during every meeting we ever had. 1030 01:03:14,754 --> 01:03:17,882 When he took the photos, it was no exception. 1031 01:03:20,134 --> 01:03:24,055 When I walked away, I had the mind of a 15-year-old, 1032 01:03:24,138 --> 01:03:27,558 and the body of a 27-year-old. 1033 01:03:27,642 --> 01:03:30,645 Your Honor, there is no outcome where I get the time back 1034 01:03:30,728 --> 01:03:32,939 and the opportunity that is lost. 1035 01:03:37,985 --> 01:03:41,280 I ask the court to take my 12 years of abuse, 1036 01:03:41,364 --> 01:03:42,782 and effects of that abuse, 1037 01:03:42,865 --> 01:03:45,326 that I continue to experience today, 1038 01:03:45,409 --> 01:03:48,246 into consideration in sentencing him. 1039 01:03:51,123 --> 01:03:52,833 JUDGE: Are you ready to be sentenced? 1040 01:03:54,335 --> 01:03:55,545 Please stand. 1041 01:04:15,982 --> 01:04:16,983 Nippy! 1042 01:04:18,526 --> 01:04:20,570 One-twenty. What does that mean? 1043 01:04:20,653 --> 01:04:22,989 A hundred and twenty years? 1044 01:04:23,072 --> 01:04:27,201 A hundred and twenty years! A hundred and twenty years! 1045 01:04:27,285 --> 01:04:30,871 NEWS ANCHOR: That's right, Dina, Raniere got 120 years. 1046 01:04:30,955 --> 01:04:34,250 And as you said, that means he will serve life in prison. 1047 01:04:34,333 --> 01:04:35,501 DAN LEVY: Judge Nick Garaufis 1048 01:04:35,585 --> 01:04:37,670 didn't just throw the book at Keith Raniere, 1049 01:04:37,753 --> 01:04:40,965 he threw the entire New York Metropolitan Library at him. 1050 01:04:43,134 --> 01:04:44,677 SUSAN DONES: A hundred and twenty years. 1051 01:04:46,554 --> 01:04:49,140 Maybe he'll get a few years off for good behavior. 1052 01:04:49,515 --> 01:04:51,183 (LAUGHS) 1053 01:04:51,267 --> 01:04:55,146 This is a 20 year book, and this is the last chapter of the book. 1054 01:04:55,229 --> 01:04:59,317 And when I leave here today, that book is closing. 1055 01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:02,445 This was like your purpose. This is why it'll happen. 1056 01:05:02,528 --> 01:05:04,739 And for so many people, like, 1057 01:05:04,822 --> 01:05:07,700 so many people before me. And that's the irony of it all 1058 01:05:07,783 --> 01:05:09,869 is that Keith, when we were joining, 1059 01:05:09,952 --> 01:05:11,621 saying women are going to change the world. 1060 01:05:12,997 --> 01:05:14,165 (EXHALES) 1061 01:05:17,460 --> 01:05:20,671 It is a tragic day for all of us. 1062 01:05:20,755 --> 01:05:23,966 We believe that today's greatest victim is due process, 1063 01:05:24,050 --> 01:05:25,718 which affects us all. 1064 01:05:25,801 --> 01:05:30,097 Because if someone or society ever turns on you, 1065 01:05:30,848 --> 01:05:32,183 you better hope to God, 1066 01:05:33,142 --> 01:05:34,894 that due process and laws 1067 01:05:34,977 --> 01:05:37,480 are still standing to protect you. 1068 01:05:41,942 --> 01:05:45,321 (CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING) 1069 01:05:50,117 --> 01:05:53,412 (SHUTTERS CLICKING) 1070 01:05:55,414 --> 01:05:57,667 FRANK PARLATO: I personally would like to see 1071 01:05:57,750 --> 01:06:04,340 his loyal followers ultimately realize he was a fraud. 1072 01:06:05,341 --> 01:06:08,219 An exquisite fraud. A brilliant fraud 1073 01:06:08,302 --> 01:06:12,556 who could persuade people that he was a saint. 1074 01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:16,977 When in reality, he is a, um... a deviant. 1075 01:06:19,897 --> 01:06:24,485 We still have some sentencing. Allison, Lauren, Nancy. 1076 01:06:24,568 --> 01:06:27,947 Maybe for everyone but Keith, there's a potential of a future. 1077 01:06:33,452 --> 01:06:37,415 ♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1078 01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:42,795 NANCY: He got 120 years, Mom. 1079 01:06:44,463 --> 01:06:45,840 NANCY: Nobody, that's the point. 1080 01:06:47,633 --> 01:06:48,759 NANCY'S MOM: 1081 01:06:48,843 --> 01:06:50,636 NANCY: I know, that's okay, Mom. 1082 01:06:52,304 --> 01:06:53,848 (LAUGHS) 1083 01:06:53,931 --> 01:06:57,935 NANCY: It's not okay, he got 120 years. And you were right. 1084 01:07:03,357 --> 01:07:04,400 NANCY: Yeah. 1085 01:07:06,819 --> 01:07:10,239 (SIGHS) My mother is angry. 1086 01:07:10,322 --> 01:07:13,325 She sees what it did to Lauren, and me. 1087 01:07:15,161 --> 01:07:16,954 She has a right to be angry. 1088 01:07:18,622 --> 01:07:20,499 I know how I feel about my children. 1089 01:07:22,668 --> 01:07:24,253 (TUTS) Hmm. 1090 01:07:27,339 --> 01:07:31,010 Whistleblowers, Mark Vicente, former top recruiter, 1091 01:07:31,093 --> 01:07:35,806 and Sarah Edmondson addressed the court via video. 1092 01:07:35,890 --> 01:07:38,017 I really want to see what they said. 1093 01:07:39,769 --> 01:07:43,647 MARK: Your Honor, beyond Keith Raniere's crimes 1094 01:07:43,731 --> 01:07:45,649 as documented in your court, 1095 01:07:45,733 --> 01:07:48,277 there are moral crimes this man has committed. 1096 01:07:49,069 --> 01:07:50,196 Keith Raniere, 1097 01:07:50,279 --> 01:07:51,447 -you made us believe... -Okay. 1098 01:07:51,530 --> 01:07:53,949 ...we were constantly failing a standard 1099 01:07:54,033 --> 01:07:57,369 you are wholly incapable of meeting yourself. 1100 01:07:57,453 --> 01:08:01,707 You just wanted to destabilize our psyches as much as possible, 1101 01:08:01,791 --> 01:08:05,795 so that in our growing psychosis you would be the savior, 1102 01:08:05,878 --> 01:08:07,838 watching us get worse and worse. 1103 01:08:09,757 --> 01:08:14,011 He has stolen hundreds of years from all his victims, 1104 01:08:14,094 --> 01:08:16,305 and he needs to be held accountable. 1105 01:08:19,183 --> 01:08:20,768 NANCY: It's really terrible. 1106 01:08:22,102 --> 01:08:23,229 (SNIFFS) 1107 01:08:24,605 --> 01:08:26,690 It's the weirdest feeling 'cause at times I want 1108 01:08:26,774 --> 01:08:28,484 to defend the good that he did, 1109 01:08:28,567 --> 01:08:30,319 but he couldn't have done the evil 1110 01:08:30,402 --> 01:08:31,821 if he hadn't done the good. 1111 01:08:31,904 --> 01:08:34,490 So did he do the good so he could do the evil? 1112 01:08:34,573 --> 01:08:36,826 I don't know. But maybe that's true. 1113 01:08:40,996 --> 01:08:43,582 Maybe he only did the good so we would believe in him, 1114 01:08:43,666 --> 01:08:47,378 so he could do this. I don't know what to believe. 1115 01:08:50,005 --> 01:08:51,090 (SNIFFS) 1116 01:09:00,975 --> 01:09:02,393 MARC: Keith undoubtedly believes that his work 1117 01:09:02,476 --> 01:09:06,647 with NXIVM is good and I think it's helped a lot of people. 1118 01:09:07,898 --> 01:09:11,110 But our decision to not call witnesses in Keith's trial, 1119 01:09:11,193 --> 01:09:14,029 was not so much that we didn't want to call witnesses, 1120 01:09:14,113 --> 01:09:16,615 or we didn't think that the defense would be aided 1121 01:09:16,699 --> 01:09:19,034 by calling witnesses, I think it's quite the opposite. 1122 01:09:19,118 --> 01:09:22,413 Um, we... we went to several different countries, 1123 01:09:22,496 --> 01:09:23,873 and interviewed hundreds of people 1124 01:09:23,956 --> 01:09:25,666 to be witnesses in this case, 1125 01:09:25,749 --> 01:09:28,002 and we got what I think was good information. 1126 01:09:28,085 --> 01:09:30,045 But when it came time to actually, 1127 01:09:30,129 --> 01:09:31,964 you know, travel to Brooklyn, 1128 01:09:32,047 --> 01:09:34,508 enter that courtroom, sit in the witness chair... 1129 01:09:34,592 --> 01:09:38,137 uh, it was... not a lot of people wanted to do that. 1130 01:09:40,222 --> 01:09:44,101 After Keith's sentencing, I said, you know, "Keith, 1131 01:09:44,184 --> 01:09:46,228 this was a fascinating debate 1132 01:09:46,312 --> 01:09:50,566 and maybe even a debate that we win until... 1133 01:09:51,817 --> 01:09:57,072 you have allegations of, you know, underage sex, 1134 01:09:57,156 --> 01:10:00,701 and pornography, and then you don't get to be 1135 01:10:00,784 --> 01:10:02,661 a participant in the debate anymore. 1136 01:10:02,745 --> 01:10:05,956 And no one's going to listen to your viewpoint the same way." 1137 01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:10,211 And it's tragic that that's the way it all 1138 01:10:10,294 --> 01:10:15,382 kind of unfolded because I think NXIVM was legitimate. 1139 01:10:19,136 --> 01:10:21,180 (BIRDS TWEETING) 1140 01:10:32,942 --> 01:10:35,277 DIANE BENSCOTER: It's gonna take you some time to heal. 1141 01:10:36,654 --> 01:10:38,155 This is the piece that 1142 01:10:38,238 --> 01:10:43,577 I really hope that you can articulate, 1143 01:10:43,661 --> 01:10:49,792 how psychological manipulation is self-perpetuating. 1144 01:10:49,875 --> 01:10:52,711 You were used for the things you were good at, 1145 01:10:52,795 --> 01:10:54,964 and for how he could control you. 1146 01:10:56,215 --> 01:10:59,218 And here's an important thing. 1147 01:10:59,301 --> 01:11:03,514 The curriculum and the way the organization was built, 1148 01:11:03,597 --> 01:11:07,726 was clearly to take control over people's lives. 1149 01:11:08,894 --> 01:11:10,396 You know? 1150 01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:13,899 It... it was designed to control people. 1151 01:11:13,983 --> 01:11:16,402 Now that is not what you believed, I'm sure. 1152 01:11:16,485 --> 01:11:19,321 That is not what you believe today, probably. 1153 01:11:19,405 --> 01:11:21,198 Well, I don't know that the curriculum did it 1154 01:11:21,282 --> 01:11:23,575 as much as Keith did it. 1155 01:11:23,659 --> 01:11:28,414 Because, you know, there were 17,000 people unaffected, 1156 01:11:28,497 --> 01:11:30,958 and had good experiences with the curriculum. 1157 01:11:31,917 --> 01:11:34,086 People came to courses, left. 1158 01:11:34,169 --> 01:11:37,673 In and-- Like, there was none of that in that. 1159 01:11:38,799 --> 01:11:40,968 Yeah. It's... (EXHALES) 1160 01:11:42,094 --> 01:11:46,515 ...one of the main tactics that is hallmark 1161 01:11:46,598 --> 01:11:49,226 of psychological manipulation 1162 01:11:49,309 --> 01:11:54,606 is to tear someone down, but then have the answer 1163 01:11:54,690 --> 01:11:56,442 for how they can fix themselves. 1164 01:11:56,525 --> 01:11:59,194 -That was him. -That's cooked in 1165 01:11:59,278 --> 01:12:02,823 to the trainings that you designed, in a way. 1166 01:12:02,906 --> 01:12:04,366 It's-- 1167 01:12:04,450 --> 01:12:06,910 And he, I think, understood that. 1168 01:12:08,829 --> 01:12:10,789 (SIGHS) 1169 01:12:10,873 --> 01:12:13,208 -Well, thank you for your help. -All right. 1170 01:12:13,292 --> 01:12:14,918 -Bye. -Bye. 1171 01:12:19,298 --> 01:12:22,009 I find myself feeling resistant to some of the things 1172 01:12:22,092 --> 01:12:25,679 she thinks about ESP. I feel resistant. 1173 01:12:29,892 --> 01:12:31,226 I hope it's not true. 1174 01:12:41,820 --> 01:12:44,948 It would really break my heart if it was true 1175 01:12:45,032 --> 01:12:49,870 because if the thing that I thought... 1176 01:12:49,953 --> 01:12:52,831 that I loved the most and I thought did the most good, 1177 01:12:52,915 --> 01:12:56,752 was really damaging people, I think... 1178 01:12:58,670 --> 01:13:01,006 that would be very hard to... 1179 01:13:02,758 --> 01:13:04,468 I don't know how... 1180 01:13:04,551 --> 01:13:06,929 I don't know how I could come back from that. 1181 01:13:07,012 --> 01:13:08,680 ♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1182 01:13:09,473 --> 01:13:10,849 (SNIFFS) 1183 01:13:28,575 --> 01:13:31,120 DIANE: It's going to take you some time to heal. 1184 01:13:33,664 --> 01:13:36,041 Highlight the a-ha moments, 1185 01:13:36,125 --> 01:13:38,085 the times when you may feel guilty 1186 01:13:38,168 --> 01:13:40,879 because you could have stepped in, 1187 01:13:40,963 --> 01:13:44,341 or you promoted things that hurt others. 1188 01:13:46,093 --> 01:13:49,888 ♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪ 1189 01:14:03,735 --> 01:14:05,487 NANCY: Looking back, 1190 01:14:05,571 --> 01:14:08,532 I was constantly doing damage control 1191 01:14:08,615 --> 01:14:09,950 about Keith's sex life. 1192 01:14:13,078 --> 01:14:16,790 It was so hard. I never wanted to do that. 1193 01:14:19,126 --> 01:14:22,004 I don't know whether I want to talk about this, but... 1194 01:14:22,629 --> 01:14:24,381 he kept sending me in. 1195 01:14:29,469 --> 01:14:32,472 I felt so lost 1196 01:14:32,556 --> 01:14:34,433 and I had no one to talk to. 1197 01:14:34,516 --> 01:14:36,894 And I don't know if I did good things or bad things. 1198 01:14:36,977 --> 01:14:40,772 I didn't know anymore because I couldn't tell. 1199 01:14:40,856 --> 01:14:42,483 (SNIFFS) I didn't know. 1200 01:14:42,566 --> 01:14:45,736 I didn't know what was right and wrong anymore because... 1201 01:14:45,819 --> 01:14:50,199 He kept saying, "I'm going to die if you don't do this. 1202 01:14:50,282 --> 01:14:52,618 You don't understand how this affects my health. 1203 01:14:52,701 --> 01:14:54,328 You have to go do this." And I would just 1204 01:14:54,411 --> 01:14:57,080 keep going in, and going in, and going in. 1205 01:14:59,333 --> 01:15:01,585 I mean, maybe that's how I participate-- 1206 01:15:01,668 --> 01:15:04,546 That's why I participated. 1207 01:15:04,630 --> 01:15:07,049 I was trying to put it back together all the time. 1208 01:15:07,132 --> 01:15:09,843 I was trying to make up for what he was doing. 1209 01:15:09,927 --> 01:15:13,430 I don't know. I just-- I don't know, but, 1210 01:15:13,514 --> 01:15:16,099 I guess that's at the root of the whole thing, 1211 01:15:16,183 --> 01:15:20,312 I feel so guilty because I couldn't do better. 1212 01:15:20,395 --> 01:15:22,272 (SOBS) I don't know. 1213 01:15:22,356 --> 01:15:24,024 These people are going to come to my sentencing 1214 01:15:24,107 --> 01:15:28,195 and maybe I should go to jail because I-- this is what I did. 1215 01:15:31,365 --> 01:15:34,409 So when Lauren says, "Mom, it happened on our watch," 1216 01:15:34,493 --> 01:15:36,620 the two of us know what we're talking about. 1217 01:15:36,703 --> 01:15:38,038 This is what we're talking about. 1218 01:15:38,121 --> 01:15:42,042 He put us in this position, and we didn't know what to do. 1219 01:15:42,125 --> 01:15:43,877 We couldn't manage it. 1220 01:15:47,756 --> 01:15:50,717 Maybe it's, you know, for three years I have to sit 1221 01:15:50,801 --> 01:15:52,386 and be in jail 1222 01:15:52,469 --> 01:15:59,810 to make up for the damage that I did by empowering him. 1223 01:15:59,893 --> 01:16:04,773 ♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪ 1224 01:16:14,700 --> 01:16:17,536 When people talk about committing to ESP, 1225 01:16:17,619 --> 01:16:18,870 they get so confused, 1226 01:16:18,954 --> 01:16:21,581 because they think what it means to commit to ESP 1227 01:16:21,665 --> 01:16:24,626 is somehow to commit to Keith Raniere, 1228 01:16:24,710 --> 01:16:26,128 or to commit to Nancy Salzman, 1229 01:16:26,211 --> 01:16:29,006 or to commit to this person named Vanguard, 1230 01:16:29,089 --> 01:16:30,716 which is such a confusion, 1231 01:16:30,799 --> 01:16:33,552 because what this organization is about, is about you. 1232 01:16:39,182 --> 01:16:42,060 Barbara Bouchey would like to thank her staff. 1233 01:16:44,354 --> 01:16:45,981 BARBARA BOUCHEY: You know, I loved Nancy. 1234 01:16:47,816 --> 01:16:51,653 I knew her since 1988. I trusted her. 1235 01:16:52,779 --> 01:16:55,407 I admired her. I cared about her. 1236 01:16:57,034 --> 01:17:03,623 She, somewhere along the way, got in so deep 1237 01:17:03,707 --> 01:17:06,668 that she didn't know how to dig herself out. 1238 01:17:06,752 --> 01:17:10,589 (FAINT APPLAUSE, CHEERING) 1239 01:17:10,672 --> 01:17:13,800 BARBARA: Keith put Nancy on a stage, 1240 01:17:13,884 --> 01:17:16,553 and gave her what she wanted the most. 1241 01:17:16,636 --> 01:17:20,015 That sense of belonging, and being revered, 1242 01:17:20,098 --> 01:17:21,933 and being able to do what she thought 1243 01:17:22,017 --> 01:17:23,644 was her life's work. 1244 01:17:25,979 --> 01:17:29,358 And she lost her way. 1245 01:17:30,150 --> 01:17:33,779 (SIRENS BLARING) 1246 01:17:35,947 --> 01:17:38,533 NEWS ANCHOR: NXIVM's second in command, Nancy Salzman, 1247 01:17:38,617 --> 01:17:40,369 is being sentenced today. 1248 01:17:41,453 --> 01:17:43,205 NEWS ANCHOR 2: Salzman's attorneys are asking 1249 01:17:43,288 --> 01:17:44,831 for a home confinement sentence, 1250 01:17:44,915 --> 01:17:48,001 whereas the government is asking for a prison sentence. 1251 01:17:51,755 --> 01:17:54,841 (CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING) 1252 01:18:01,765 --> 01:18:03,100 JUDGE: Miss Salzman, 1253 01:18:03,183 --> 01:18:07,229 you and Mr. Raniere developed NXIVM together. 1254 01:18:07,312 --> 01:18:11,358 As the Prefect, you were Mr. Raniere's second in command, 1255 01:18:11,441 --> 01:18:12,734 and shared his power. 1256 01:18:14,653 --> 01:18:17,406 For 20 years, you helped him consolidate 1257 01:18:17,489 --> 01:18:18,907 and maintain control. 1258 01:18:20,700 --> 01:18:24,162 You went to extreme lengths to protect NXIVM, 1259 01:18:24,246 --> 01:18:27,541 which safeguarded and enhanced your own status in the group. 1260 01:18:29,668 --> 01:18:33,463 In 20 years of your relationship with Mr. Raniere, 1261 01:18:33,547 --> 01:18:37,801 prior to your arrest, you never rejected him. 1262 01:18:37,884 --> 01:18:41,179 The door was always open, but you never left. 1263 01:18:43,849 --> 01:18:47,436 There are also notable mitigating factors. 1264 01:18:47,519 --> 01:18:49,438 You were the first of your codefendants 1265 01:18:49,521 --> 01:18:50,939 to plead guilty. 1266 01:18:51,022 --> 01:18:53,567 You have served as a tireless caregiver 1267 01:18:53,650 --> 01:18:55,235 to your ailing parents in the years 1268 01:18:55,318 --> 01:18:57,320 following your arrest. 1269 01:18:57,404 --> 01:18:59,781 Conversely, you lured your daughter, 1270 01:18:59,865 --> 01:19:02,951 Lauren, into NXIVM, straight out of college, 1271 01:19:03,034 --> 01:19:05,078 which ultimately entrapped her 1272 01:19:05,162 --> 01:19:08,081 into a sexual relationship with Mr. Raniere. 1273 01:19:10,292 --> 01:19:12,586 I sentence you as follows. 1274 01:19:12,669 --> 01:19:16,673 Forty-two months in the custody of the Attorney General. 1275 01:19:16,756 --> 01:19:18,175 (GAVEL CLAPS) 1276 01:19:18,258 --> 01:19:21,511 -(INDISTINCT CHATTER) -(CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING) 1277 01:19:47,829 --> 01:19:49,456 CARMEN GUTIERREZ: He doesn't understand. 1278 01:19:50,540 --> 01:19:52,459 NANCY: I was surprised he blamed me for Lauren. 1279 01:19:53,752 --> 01:19:55,378 The judge blamed me for that. 1280 01:19:56,171 --> 01:19:57,255 He blamed me for that. 1281 01:19:57,339 --> 01:19:59,174 "You could have left at any time." 1282 01:19:59,257 --> 01:20:00,425 "You enrolled your daughter." 1283 01:20:00,509 --> 01:20:03,178 How could I enroll my daughter in something that's-- 1284 01:20:03,261 --> 01:20:05,555 I love my daughter. 1285 01:20:05,639 --> 01:20:08,475 I would do anything for my daughter. 1286 01:20:08,558 --> 01:20:11,394 There's nothing more important to me than my children. 1287 01:20:11,478 --> 01:20:14,731 And for him to look at me and think that I'm that. 1288 01:20:16,566 --> 01:20:18,485 It's just not right. 1289 01:20:18,985 --> 01:20:21,988 (SOBS) 1290 01:20:27,661 --> 01:20:31,289 (SNIFFS) 1291 01:20:34,834 --> 01:20:36,169 Hey, honey. 1292 01:20:36,253 --> 01:20:37,712 LAUREN SALZMAN: Hi, Mama. Where are you? 1293 01:20:37,796 --> 01:20:39,381 Do you want me to come back to the hotel? 1294 01:20:39,464 --> 01:20:41,925 -I'm stood waiting for you. -Can you get some food 1295 01:20:42,008 --> 01:20:43,093 and then come back? 1296 01:20:43,176 --> 01:20:46,054 Because I can't leave until you come. 1297 01:20:46,137 --> 01:20:47,681 LAUREN: Okay, what do you want to eat? 1298 01:20:47,764 --> 01:20:49,391 I don't want to eat anything. Honey, 1299 01:20:49,474 --> 01:20:51,226 I don't want to eat anything. 1300 01:20:51,309 --> 01:20:52,811 LAUREN: Oh, I thought you meant food for you. 1301 01:20:52,894 --> 01:20:54,896 Okay. No, I'm done. I'll come back. 1302 01:20:54,980 --> 01:20:56,398 I'll just come back. See you soon. 1303 01:20:56,481 --> 01:20:57,941 I just want to go to Grandma's. 1304 01:20:58,024 --> 01:21:00,068 LAUREN: Okay, perfect. I'll get you and we'll go. 1305 01:21:00,151 --> 01:21:01,695 -(SOBS) Thank you. -LAUREN: Okay, I love you. 1306 01:21:01,778 --> 01:21:02,988 -Okay, bye. -Bye. 1307 01:21:03,071 --> 01:21:04,239 (SNIFFLES) 1308 01:21:05,615 --> 01:21:06,783 (GROANS) 1309 01:21:11,371 --> 01:21:15,208 (SOBS) 1310 01:21:32,058 --> 01:21:35,186 ♪ (TENDER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1311 01:22:32,994 --> 01:22:35,455 -(INDISTINCT CHATTER) -LAWYER: We're making a move. 1312 01:22:35,538 --> 01:22:38,249 -We're making a move now, Alli. -(CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING) 1313 01:22:57,310 --> 01:22:58,311 (PHONE CHIMES) 1314 01:22:58,395 --> 01:23:00,689 Oh? Oh. (GASPS) Oh! 1315 01:23:00,772 --> 01:23:01,773 We got it. 1316 01:23:02,857 --> 01:23:06,152 (LAUGHS, SOBS) 1317 01:23:06,778 --> 01:23:08,530 (SNIFFLES) 1318 01:23:08,613 --> 01:23:10,990 Time served and five years' probation. 1319 01:23:11,074 --> 01:23:12,701 (SOBS) 1320 01:23:17,038 --> 01:23:21,876 I am so relieved. Oh, my God. She doesn't have to go to jail. 1321 01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:25,005 (SNIFFLES, EXHALES DEEPLY) 1322 01:23:37,350 --> 01:23:39,978 So, I feel really fortunate. 1323 01:23:43,356 --> 01:23:47,193 (BABBLES) 1324 01:23:50,155 --> 01:23:52,615 -Woah! -(CHUCKLES) 1325 01:25:51,234 --> 01:25:55,530 NANCY: I think that most people look at this story and say, 1326 01:25:55,613 --> 01:25:57,323 "That could never happen to me." 1327 01:26:01,536 --> 01:26:03,580 And we don't realize that it's very similar 1328 01:26:03,663 --> 01:26:05,498 to things that happen every single day. 1329 01:26:07,500 --> 01:26:10,169 It's just exaggerated. 1330 01:26:14,674 --> 01:26:17,760 People trade away the things that they really want 1331 01:26:17,844 --> 01:26:21,222 because they don't want to create a catastrophe, 1332 01:26:21,306 --> 01:26:22,640 or they don't want to end a marriage, 1333 01:26:22,724 --> 01:26:25,059 or they don't want to quit their job. 1334 01:26:26,561 --> 01:26:28,813 And they walk in everyday and they make 1335 01:26:28,897 --> 01:26:32,233 another trade and another trade and another trade, 1336 01:26:32,317 --> 01:26:34,986 and they end up losing themselves in that. 1337 01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:55,089 So I think it's not as strange a story as one might think. 1338 01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:18,613 ♪ ("DREAM STATE" BY SON LUX PLAYING) ♪ 1339 01:27:20,031 --> 01:27:22,075 ♪ Days we were young ♪ 1340 01:27:22,158 --> 01:27:27,956 ♪ We took photographs Of everything we could see ♪ 1341 01:27:28,039 --> 01:27:31,459 ♪ We had to run from it ♪ 1342 01:27:31,542 --> 01:27:34,379 ♪ Priest and prophetess We were ♪ 1343 01:27:34,462 --> 01:27:38,383 ♪ Nothing we would defy ♪ 1344 01:27:39,425 --> 01:27:43,513 ♪ Oh! Invisible skin ♪ 1345 01:27:43,596 --> 01:27:47,183 ♪ Where is the world within? ♪ 1346 01:27:47,266 --> 01:27:52,313 ♪ Invincible skin It's how we all begin ♪ 1347 01:27:56,943 --> 01:27:58,069 ♪ ("DREAM STATE" CONCLUDES) ♪