1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:19,918 --> 00:00:23,918 ( soft violin music ) 4 00:00:26,667 --> 00:00:28,709 ( man speaking English ) 5 00:00:39,292 --> 00:00:41,709 This is James Wright Foley, 6 00:00:41,792 --> 00:00:44,334 an American citizen of your country. 7 00:00:46,959 --> 00:00:49,417 The Foley video, partly the image, 8 00:00:49,500 --> 00:00:52,459 but even more the voice of his captor 9 00:00:52,542 --> 00:00:55,709 was really shocking because it was so clearly 10 00:00:55,792 --> 00:00:58,417 a British London accent. 11 00:00:58,500 --> 00:01:01,292 Man: The way that he spoke into the camera, his demeanor, 12 00:01:01,375 --> 00:01:04,250 his accent, we'd never seen anything like this before. 13 00:01:04,334 --> 00:01:08,500 We then obviously had a race to find out who he was. 14 00:01:08,584 --> 00:01:12,584 His size, his hands, but above all his voice 15 00:01:12,667 --> 00:01:15,667 made identifying him quite easy. 16 00:01:15,751 --> 00:01:17,042 It was very distinctive, 17 00:01:17,125 --> 00:01:19,042 and within hours we had a name 18 00:01:19,125 --> 00:01:22,042 for that individual, Mohammed Emwazi. 19 00:01:22,125 --> 00:01:24,417 Mohammed Emwazi: You are no longer fighting an insurgency, 20 00:01:24,500 --> 00:01:28,083 we are an Islamic army and a state. 21 00:01:28,167 --> 00:01:31,167 Woman: You saw a masked man with a knife, 22 00:01:31,250 --> 00:01:35,000 and he sent this message that the Islamic State was here, 23 00:01:35,083 --> 00:01:37,500 it was not Al-Qaeda, everyone knew about Al-Qaeda, 24 00:01:37,584 --> 00:01:40,667 but ISIS, Al-Baghdadi, these guys were different, 25 00:01:40,751 --> 00:01:42,626 they were this new brand. 26 00:01:42,709 --> 00:01:45,918 Man: The Islamic State could not have planned it any better, 27 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,292 if there was one thing that I think contributed 28 00:01:49,375 --> 00:01:53,667 to the rise of his fame and the expansion of his own message, 29 00:01:53,751 --> 00:01:56,792 was the fact that the international news media 30 00:01:56,876 --> 00:01:58,876 called him "Jihadi John." 31 00:01:58,959 --> 00:02:02,292 Man 2: Jihadi John, he knows that we're coming after him, 32 00:02:02,375 --> 00:02:06,250 he went to great lengths to prevent being captured. 33 00:02:06,334 --> 00:02:07,584 He didn't want to get captured, 34 00:02:07,667 --> 00:02:09,292 he didn't want to get killed. 35 00:02:09,375 --> 00:02:11,500 How did you go from this conservative, 36 00:02:11,584 --> 00:02:15,500 sports-loving teenager to somebody who's splashed 37 00:02:15,584 --> 00:02:19,375 with the arterial blood of the men he's beheading? 38 00:02:19,459 --> 00:02:22,042 This is not just a subtle transformation, 39 00:02:22,125 --> 00:02:26,167 this is literally going from nothing 40 00:02:26,250 --> 00:02:29,834 to everything with little in between. 41 00:02:34,751 --> 00:02:37,751 ( soft violin music ) 42 00:02:43,959 --> 00:02:46,709 ( bombs exploding ) 43 00:03:11,417 --> 00:03:14,125 ( bomb exploding ) 44 00:03:16,918 --> 00:03:19,709 ( bomb exploding ) 45 00:03:38,042 --> 00:03:40,459 Woman: Mohammed Emwazi, he had an interesting journey, 46 00:03:40,542 --> 00:03:43,834 but not one that's particularly different to other people. 47 00:03:43,918 --> 00:03:46,167 He started off in Kuwait 48 00:03:46,250 --> 00:03:49,292 where his family were a persecuted minority. 49 00:03:49,375 --> 00:03:51,250 They were known as the Bedoon tribe 50 00:03:51,334 --> 00:03:54,167 with people who were not recognized nationally 51 00:03:54,250 --> 00:03:56,167 by the Kuwaiti government. 52 00:03:56,250 --> 00:03:59,375 Man: His father was more successful than most Bedoon 53 00:03:59,459 --> 00:04:01,626 because his father was a police officer 54 00:04:01,709 --> 00:04:04,542 and his mother was a Yemeni. 55 00:04:04,626 --> 00:04:07,792 So, the Emwazis, like lots of Bedoon, 56 00:04:07,876 --> 00:04:09,209 were considering where to go 57 00:04:09,292 --> 00:04:11,292 in terms of escaping the persecution, 58 00:04:11,375 --> 00:04:13,042 and they'd heard good stories about London. 59 00:04:13,125 --> 00:04:16,459 So the Emwazis with little Mohammed in 1993, 60 00:04:16,542 --> 00:04:19,500 when he was about six years old, packed their bags 61 00:04:19,584 --> 00:04:20,918 and headed for London. 62 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:25,042 And they were then subsequently given asylum in the UK. 63 00:04:25,125 --> 00:04:28,000 Robert Verkaik: They moved into a small flat in Maida Vale. 64 00:04:28,083 --> 00:04:31,834 His father, Jassem, he began work as a cab driver 65 00:04:31,918 --> 00:04:34,083 and they began to build a family. 66 00:04:34,167 --> 00:04:36,459 For Mohammed, his first school 67 00:04:36,542 --> 00:04:38,709 was a Church of England primary school. 68 00:04:38,792 --> 00:04:41,375 Dr. Emman El-Badawy: And Emwazi spent his life growing up 69 00:04:41,459 --> 00:04:44,125 as somebody who I guess was always wondering 70 00:04:44,209 --> 00:04:45,709 about his identity, 71 00:04:45,792 --> 00:04:48,918 someone who's family had to leave their home country 72 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:50,417 because of their identity, 73 00:04:50,500 --> 00:04:53,000 and then subsequently trying to figure out 74 00:04:53,083 --> 00:04:57,042 how he fits into this new society in the heart of the UK. 75 00:04:57,125 --> 00:04:59,459 Verkaik: He supported Manchester United, 76 00:04:59,542 --> 00:05:02,375 but he also liked pop groups like S Club 7. 77 00:05:02,459 --> 00:05:04,709 ♪ There's people try to put your down ♪ 78 00:05:04,792 --> 00:05:06,918 ♪ Just walk on by, don't turn around ♪ 79 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:12,209 ♪ You only have to answer to yourself ♪ 80 00:05:12,292 --> 00:05:14,292 Verkaik: In his year book at primary school 81 00:05:14,375 --> 00:05:15,751 he said his big dream was to be 82 00:05:15,834 --> 00:05:17,417 a Manchester United football player. 83 00:05:17,500 --> 00:05:18,584 It's all he wanted to do. 84 00:05:21,459 --> 00:05:25,751 Woman: Mohammed was in year 10 when I started as Head. 85 00:05:25,834 --> 00:05:30,209 He wasn't a particularly noticeable young person. 86 00:05:30,292 --> 00:05:34,125 ( children chattering ) 87 00:05:34,209 --> 00:05:38,375 Woman 2: I met Mohammed through teaching English for about a year, 88 00:05:38,459 --> 00:05:40,584 so I didn't teach him for very long, 89 00:05:40,667 --> 00:05:43,334 but the family I grew to know really well 90 00:05:43,417 --> 00:05:46,792 because his younger sister was then in my next year group. 91 00:05:46,876 --> 00:05:51,292 He wasn't vocal, he wasn't particularly aggressive, 92 00:05:51,375 --> 00:05:53,709 he was just a kind of, like a passenger. 93 00:05:53,792 --> 00:05:55,918 I always see Mohammed as like a passenger. 94 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,584 He was much more of a follower than he was a leader. 95 00:05:59,667 --> 00:06:03,709 He kind of hunched and tried to make eye contact with me. 96 00:06:03,792 --> 00:06:05,417 He found that difficult. 97 00:06:07,876 --> 00:06:11,417 He often walked around covering his mouth 98 00:06:11,500 --> 00:06:15,083 and sometimes some young boys would tease him 99 00:06:15,167 --> 00:06:17,459 about his breath, but that was, I think, 100 00:06:17,542 --> 00:06:19,584 it was more of an insecurity for him. 101 00:06:19,667 --> 00:06:22,500 Verkaik: If kids starting baiting him about his breath, he'd react. 102 00:06:22,584 --> 00:06:24,292 They'd start ganging up on him 103 00:06:24,375 --> 00:06:26,500 and they knew which buttons to press with Emwazi. 104 00:06:26,584 --> 00:06:29,918 It just shows how kind of vulnerable he was. 105 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:31,626 He was slightly strange. 106 00:06:31,709 --> 00:06:33,292 I wouldn't say he was a misfit. 107 00:06:33,375 --> 00:06:35,459 I think that's probably a bit too pejorative, 108 00:06:35,542 --> 00:06:37,626 but I think he wasn't necessarily sure 109 00:06:37,709 --> 00:06:39,375 exactly where he fitted in. 110 00:06:39,459 --> 00:06:42,584 On the playing field where the boys would play football, 111 00:06:42,667 --> 00:06:44,626 I remember one time I confiscated the ball 112 00:06:44,709 --> 00:06:47,959 because I was being hit every second. 113 00:06:48,042 --> 00:06:49,584 At one point, Mohammed was nearby, 114 00:06:49,667 --> 00:06:50,751 and I kind of looked at him. 115 00:06:50,834 --> 00:06:51,918 "Wasn't me miss." 116 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:53,500 I said, "Okay, just move on." 117 00:06:53,584 --> 00:06:55,417 He wasn't argumentative, he wasn't rude, 118 00:06:55,500 --> 00:06:57,042 he wasn't aggressive. 119 00:06:57,125 --> 00:07:02,709 He just was very pliable, he just would... just be. 120 00:07:05,834 --> 00:07:07,959 ( speaking in foreign language ) 121 00:07:08,042 --> 00:07:09,667 Have you finished every level? 122 00:07:09,751 --> 00:07:10,751 Sorry. 123 00:07:13,417 --> 00:07:15,083 ( speaking in foreign language ) 124 00:07:15,167 --> 00:07:16,667 Claudia Giarruso: But the few occasions 125 00:07:16,751 --> 00:07:18,584 I would take the class into the computer room, 126 00:07:18,667 --> 00:07:21,375 Mohammed would gravitate to those computers. 127 00:07:21,459 --> 00:07:23,667 He would love to be in the computer room 128 00:07:23,751 --> 00:07:26,459 and it's almost like he came alive 129 00:07:26,542 --> 00:07:28,375 when he was in front of a screen. 130 00:07:28,459 --> 00:07:31,626 In away it was kind of a world that he could escape to. 131 00:07:39,667 --> 00:07:42,584 Man: I think it is useful to begin at the beginning, 132 00:07:42,667 --> 00:07:47,292 you know, where did ISIS actually begin? 133 00:07:47,375 --> 00:07:49,500 El-Badawy: Prior to 2010, 134 00:07:49,584 --> 00:07:53,876 no one knew who this guy called Al-Badri was. 135 00:07:53,959 --> 00:07:57,500 He was this unassuming individual brought up in Samarra, 136 00:07:57,584 --> 00:07:59,334 east of the Tigris in Iraq, 137 00:07:59,417 --> 00:08:02,375 and he buried himself in religious text and scripture. 138 00:08:02,459 --> 00:08:04,417 He was obsessed with the debates 139 00:08:04,500 --> 00:08:07,500 and disputes around the contemporary called jihad. 140 00:08:07,584 --> 00:08:10,334 He was essentially a bookworm. 141 00:08:10,417 --> 00:08:14,209 Al-Badri later changed his name to Al-Baghdadi. 142 00:08:14,292 --> 00:08:17,667 But he'd also come into contact in the early 2000s 143 00:08:17,751 --> 00:08:22,959 with a notorious member of Al-Qaeda called Zarqawi. 144 00:08:23,042 --> 00:08:25,334 ( speaking in foreign language ) 145 00:08:25,417 --> 00:08:31,083 Zarqawi, a very effective, charismatic, superior leader. 146 00:08:31,167 --> 00:08:36,083 Zarqawi was a master of the management of violence. 147 00:08:36,167 --> 00:08:38,667 - ( gun exploding ) - ( bombs exploding ) 148 00:08:38,751 --> 00:08:41,584 So he led the insurgency against the coalition 149 00:08:41,667 --> 00:08:45,167 and Zarqawi ended up pioneering the business model 150 00:08:45,250 --> 00:08:46,667 of suicide bombers. 151 00:08:46,751 --> 00:08:51,876 - ( bombs exploding ) - ( sirens whirring ) 152 00:08:51,959 --> 00:08:55,626 And with the Islamist views that Al-Baghdadi had developed, 153 00:08:55,709 --> 00:08:59,042 combined with the views that Zarqawi communicated, 154 00:08:59,125 --> 00:09:01,459 he became incredibly influenced. 155 00:09:01,542 --> 00:09:04,626 Baghdadi was well placed to network and recruit 156 00:09:04,709 --> 00:09:09,334 for Al-Qaeda and particularly Zarqawi's version of Al-Qaeda. 157 00:09:11,334 --> 00:09:15,167 And so, I see a distinct difference between the two. 158 00:09:15,250 --> 00:09:19,459 Zarqawi had a plan and he ruthlessly executed that plan, 159 00:09:19,542 --> 00:09:24,542 whereas Al-Baghdadi had a vision for what he wanted to do 160 00:09:24,626 --> 00:09:28,042 and a vision has a longer-term timeline 161 00:09:28,125 --> 00:09:32,417 and it has a broader set of aspirations and expectations. 162 00:09:37,959 --> 00:09:41,167 ( upbeat techno music ) 163 00:09:50,042 --> 00:09:52,667 ( train whirling ) 164 00:09:55,751 --> 00:09:59,167 As Emwazi progresses through his teenage years 165 00:09:59,250 --> 00:10:01,667 he's drinking, his friends say he loves clubbing, 166 00:10:01,751 --> 00:10:03,375 he's smoking cannabis. 167 00:10:03,459 --> 00:10:06,959 He's got a reputation for being a bit of a party animal. 168 00:10:09,876 --> 00:10:12,792 Shuter: So, my perception of him once he got into the sixth form, 169 00:10:12,876 --> 00:10:15,417 and he-- obviously he wanted to go to university, 170 00:10:15,500 --> 00:10:19,209 but he did become less willing to fit in. 171 00:10:19,292 --> 00:10:22,375 The level of defiance in him grew, 172 00:10:22,459 --> 00:10:26,000 and I remember occasions when he was asked to leave lessons 173 00:10:26,083 --> 00:10:27,834 because he just wasn't working. 174 00:10:29,542 --> 00:10:32,459 Verkaik: Some of his older friends in the community 175 00:10:32,542 --> 00:10:34,542 are part of street gangs. 176 00:10:34,626 --> 00:10:36,459 This is another theme in Emwazi's life. 177 00:10:36,542 --> 00:10:39,167 He's very much influenced by older men. 178 00:10:39,250 --> 00:10:41,250 So, all key figures in his life 179 00:10:41,334 --> 00:10:44,542 tend to be people who he can look up to 180 00:10:44,626 --> 00:10:47,500 and some of the gang members were involved in crime, 181 00:10:47,584 --> 00:10:50,542 one or two served jail terms for stealing bikes, 182 00:10:50,626 --> 00:10:51,918 drugs offenses. 183 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,918 Emwazi himself was arrested and put on trial 184 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,417 for a string of bike robberies. 185 00:10:58,500 --> 00:11:00,417 He was eventually acquitted of that, 186 00:11:00,500 --> 00:11:03,626 but by association he was being drawn into 187 00:11:03,709 --> 00:11:05,876 this kind of crime lifestyle. 188 00:11:10,500 --> 00:11:13,584 Shuter: He was part of a very supportive, 189 00:11:13,667 --> 00:11:18,334 inclusive school environment and going on to university 190 00:11:18,417 --> 00:11:21,709 a lot of those kinds of support structures are withdrawn 191 00:11:21,792 --> 00:11:24,250 and I think that for any vulnerable young person 192 00:11:24,334 --> 00:11:27,751 being part of a very big faceless university community 193 00:11:27,834 --> 00:11:30,792 is where some of those issues would have set in. 194 00:11:37,500 --> 00:11:40,542 Like we've said, he was one of those invisible young people 195 00:11:40,626 --> 00:11:42,751 that we assume everything is okay, 196 00:11:44,500 --> 00:11:46,709 and in hindsight it obviously wasn't. 197 00:11:49,709 --> 00:11:52,292 ( speaking in foreign language ) 198 00:11:52,375 --> 00:11:55,500 If you try to look at the physical origins 199 00:11:55,584 --> 00:11:58,042 of the Islamic State as a fighting force, 200 00:11:58,125 --> 00:12:01,626 the seeds were sown in places like Camp Bucca, 201 00:12:01,709 --> 00:12:03,292 News reporter: This is a new frontline 202 00:12:03,375 --> 00:12:06,292 in the fight against terrorism, Camp Bucca, 203 00:12:06,375 --> 00:12:10,125 the United States biggest detention facility in Iraq. 204 00:12:10,209 --> 00:12:15,584 Inside Camp Bucca there are more than 19,000 civilian detainees. 205 00:12:15,667 --> 00:12:18,751 They are neither criminals, nor prisoners of war. 206 00:12:18,834 --> 00:12:22,584 Wise: There's a significant amount of mystery about Baghdadi 207 00:12:22,667 --> 00:12:24,709 and the circumstances of his life 208 00:12:24,792 --> 00:12:27,709 that ultimately resulted in him being incarcerated 209 00:12:27,792 --> 00:12:29,500 in Camp Bucca. 210 00:12:29,584 --> 00:12:34,334 He knew that the best way for him to survive in that camp 211 00:12:34,417 --> 00:12:39,209 was to take on the persona of a senior respected individual 212 00:12:39,292 --> 00:12:40,709 in the camp community 213 00:12:40,792 --> 00:12:44,667 by gaining the trust of the US military. 214 00:12:44,751 --> 00:12:47,209 When I took over command of the surge 215 00:12:47,292 --> 00:12:50,125 as a four star in early 2007, 216 00:12:50,209 --> 00:12:52,167 it was quickly apparent to me 217 00:12:52,250 --> 00:12:55,209 that this was almost a terrorist training university. 218 00:12:55,292 --> 00:12:57,918 We had failed to remove the true extremists 219 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,250 from the midst of the population 220 00:13:00,334 --> 00:13:01,959 where they were proselytizing 221 00:13:02,042 --> 00:13:07,292 and essentially running these particular areas. 222 00:13:07,375 --> 00:13:09,250 General David Petraeus: These are all Al-Qaeda, 223 00:13:09,334 --> 00:13:11,459 but this is not a place that you want to hang around 224 00:13:11,542 --> 00:13:13,584 so we really don't wanna stand here that much longer 225 00:13:13,667 --> 00:13:15,375 because they will now organize around us 226 00:13:15,459 --> 00:13:17,667 and you can already see the lieutenant's ready to move. 227 00:13:17,751 --> 00:13:20,375 - Man: If you go back just. - Petraeus: Yep. 228 00:13:20,459 --> 00:13:23,417 Petraeus: Look at them think, look at them put two and two together. 229 00:13:23,500 --> 00:13:26,167 They are watching, when I'm looking at them here, 230 00:13:26,250 --> 00:13:28,209 it's just like they are watching really, really carefully. 231 00:13:28,292 --> 00:13:29,876 Petraeus: I know, I know that, and not only that, 232 00:13:29,959 --> 00:13:31,209 there's another unique matter, 233 00:13:31,292 --> 00:13:33,042 notice how because they are a collective society 234 00:13:33,125 --> 00:13:34,375 they don't think alone. 235 00:13:34,459 --> 00:13:37,667 They're thinking on groups of three to five 236 00:13:37,751 --> 00:13:39,834 with somebody else standing behind asking them 237 00:13:39,918 --> 00:13:42,500 to ask the question so he doesn't get identified. 238 00:13:42,584 --> 00:13:45,167 Inside a compound like this, there are leaders. 239 00:13:45,250 --> 00:13:47,542 We don't know yet who they are. 240 00:13:47,626 --> 00:13:50,834 Wise: Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi, clearly understood 241 00:13:50,918 --> 00:13:53,417 not being a warrior himself 242 00:13:53,500 --> 00:13:57,751 that he could in fact lead and manage warriors. 243 00:13:57,834 --> 00:14:01,792 So, this was the laboratory in which his culture was grown. 244 00:14:01,876 --> 00:14:06,250 You had an alienated group of Iraqi officers 245 00:14:06,334 --> 00:14:09,876 mixing with some extremist elements 246 00:14:09,959 --> 00:14:11,167 that were already there. 247 00:14:11,250 --> 00:14:14,459 The two came together in a sort of symbiotic way 248 00:14:14,542 --> 00:14:18,042 that over time, because this didn't happen overnight, 249 00:14:18,125 --> 00:14:20,459 a lot of these relationships were formed, 250 00:14:20,542 --> 00:14:22,667 but didn't flourish for a number of years 251 00:14:22,751 --> 00:14:25,334 until suddenly there was a marriage of convenience 252 00:14:25,417 --> 00:14:26,959 and they fired each other up. 253 00:14:27,042 --> 00:14:30,667 When he was released for cooperative and good behavior 254 00:14:30,751 --> 00:14:32,959 from Camp Bucca, he continued 255 00:14:33,042 --> 00:14:36,626 to manage the persona of a good Iraqi citizen. 256 00:14:36,709 --> 00:14:39,459 He hid literally in plain sight. 257 00:14:40,834 --> 00:14:42,459 Petraeus: The days of Zarqawi are over... 258 00:14:42,542 --> 00:14:47,626 and now Iraqis can rejoice and take pride 259 00:14:47,709 --> 00:14:50,834 in what has been accomplished in eliminating that threat. 260 00:14:50,918 --> 00:14:55,209 Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi used that timeframe 261 00:14:55,292 --> 00:14:58,083 between the death of Zarqawi 262 00:14:58,167 --> 00:15:00,209 and the destruction of Al-Qaeda in Iraq 263 00:15:00,292 --> 00:15:03,918 to exploit the relationships that he had made in the camp 264 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,584 and consolidate his infrastructure and 265 00:15:07,667 --> 00:15:12,667 in a position to declare the existence of the Islamic State. 266 00:15:20,459 --> 00:15:23,167 Verkaik: Mohammed Emwazi turned up at Westminster, 267 00:15:23,250 --> 00:15:24,542 and he was wearing 268 00:15:24,626 --> 00:15:28,334 a Pittsburgh Pirates baseball cap and tracksuit. 269 00:15:28,417 --> 00:15:31,042 There was nothing really Islamic about him. 270 00:15:31,125 --> 00:15:33,000 Man: So, he started in 2006, 271 00:15:33,083 --> 00:15:36,209 a normal teenage lad with normal aspirations. 272 00:15:36,292 --> 00:15:38,584 but something happened over the intervening three years. 273 00:15:38,667 --> 00:15:40,834 We'd had reporting on him 274 00:15:40,918 --> 00:15:43,959 during some of his later university years 275 00:15:44,042 --> 00:15:45,959 that he was becoming more extreme. 276 00:15:46,042 --> 00:15:50,000 It's likely the strongest influence on Emwazi at that time 277 00:15:50,083 --> 00:15:51,959 were two specific individuals. 278 00:15:52,042 --> 00:15:55,751 Mohammed Sakr who had also been to the same school, 279 00:15:55,834 --> 00:15:59,542 but three years older than Emwazi had already been to Kenya, 280 00:15:59,626 --> 00:16:03,542 he'd been arrested, he had lots of stories to tell 281 00:16:03,626 --> 00:16:06,876 about how he was leading this really exciting life. 282 00:16:06,959 --> 00:16:09,918 - ( guns exploding ) - ( singing in foreign language ) 283 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:11,626 As charismatic as Sakr was, 284 00:16:11,709 --> 00:16:14,584 his friend, a guy called Bilal Berjawi, 285 00:16:14,667 --> 00:16:17,876 he'd also been to Kenya, he'd been arrested, 286 00:16:17,959 --> 00:16:21,542 he'd been accused of being involved in terrorism. 287 00:16:21,626 --> 00:16:24,500 He had double the charisma, he had double the stories. 288 00:16:24,584 --> 00:16:26,292 And it's become increasingly apparent 289 00:16:26,375 --> 00:16:30,125 that radicalization isn't something for lonely people. 290 00:16:30,209 --> 00:16:33,542 There's a strong social process that happens. 291 00:16:33,626 --> 00:16:37,834 What started off as him just being a difficult teenager, 292 00:16:37,918 --> 00:16:41,000 doing lots of delinquent activity 293 00:16:41,083 --> 00:16:44,918 to becoming actually someone who wanted to redeem himself 294 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:49,209 and return back to his original Islamic identity 295 00:16:49,292 --> 00:16:51,417 and practice it more wholly. 296 00:16:51,500 --> 00:16:55,542 A very insightful story from one of his old school friends 297 00:16:55,626 --> 00:16:59,042 who was sitting in a shisha bar on the Edgeware Road 298 00:16:59,125 --> 00:17:01,500 and Emwazi and two associates 299 00:17:01,584 --> 00:17:04,876 were walking down the Edgeware Road in their white robes 300 00:17:04,959 --> 00:17:09,375 and the friend says to Emwazi, "Hi Mohammad, how are you?" 301 00:17:09,459 --> 00:17:10,876 This is a new Emwazi. 302 00:17:10,959 --> 00:17:13,459 He doesn't acknowledge old friends anymore. 303 00:17:13,542 --> 00:17:17,918 He walked past with his head in the air. 304 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:19,834 This was, he'd moved on. 305 00:17:19,918 --> 00:17:25,334 ( train clanging ) 306 00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:34,792 Man: There are similarities between a criminal lifestyle 307 00:17:34,876 --> 00:17:36,792 and recruitment for jihad. 308 00:17:36,876 --> 00:17:38,500 So everyone's looking for a sense of purpose 309 00:17:38,584 --> 00:17:41,334 and meaning and significance in life 310 00:17:41,417 --> 00:17:44,000 and the jihadist milieu presents itself 311 00:17:44,083 --> 00:17:45,876 as a David versus Goliath mentality 312 00:17:45,959 --> 00:17:47,584 for those that are disenfranchised. 313 00:17:47,667 --> 00:17:50,000 We give a family to those that never had a family before. 314 00:17:50,083 --> 00:17:52,918 Prisons have becoming breeding grounds for recruitment, 315 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,000 for the very reason that it's very easy to take someone 316 00:17:55,083 --> 00:17:57,417 who has an affiliation with a gang and convince them 317 00:17:57,500 --> 00:18:00,083 that they should act out and lash out against their society 318 00:18:00,167 --> 00:18:01,626 because they already have that. 319 00:18:01,709 --> 00:18:04,125 You present Islam as an ability to transform that 320 00:18:04,209 --> 00:18:05,626 into something powerful and positive. 321 00:18:05,709 --> 00:18:08,876 It gives structure where there was none 322 00:18:08,959 --> 00:18:11,250 and it can be very beneficial at first. 323 00:18:11,334 --> 00:18:14,876 They start to go to school, they start to associate with positive religious friends. 324 00:18:14,959 --> 00:18:17,459 Their interest in reading and studying changes, 325 00:18:17,542 --> 00:18:19,500 but it's really part and parcel 326 00:18:19,584 --> 00:18:22,125 of that first step into extremism. 327 00:18:22,209 --> 00:18:23,626 It is a major tool for recruitment 328 00:18:23,709 --> 00:18:25,250 'cause you're selling a complete lifestyle 329 00:18:25,334 --> 00:18:26,667 in the same way that a gang sells 330 00:18:26,751 --> 00:18:28,459 a complete countercultural lifestyle. 331 00:18:28,542 --> 00:18:31,459 You're selling a countercultural, gang-like lifestyle. 332 00:18:31,542 --> 00:18:33,542 And so the two correlate rather well. 333 00:18:33,626 --> 00:18:36,459 ( clock ticking ) 334 00:18:38,375 --> 00:18:41,959 Verkaik: Having left university in 2009, 335 00:18:42,042 --> 00:18:43,459 they cast their eyes around the world 336 00:18:43,542 --> 00:18:47,334 and the region they land on is Somalia 337 00:18:47,417 --> 00:18:51,542 because Somalia is in the grip of an Islamic revolution. 338 00:18:51,626 --> 00:18:53,626 Somalia was the only jihad in town 339 00:18:53,709 --> 00:18:55,876 as far as they were concerned. 340 00:18:55,959 --> 00:18:57,500 Looking at it from his eyes, 341 00:18:57,584 --> 00:19:00,626 all he wants to do is go and take part 342 00:19:00,709 --> 00:19:04,876 in what he would describe as a humanitarian mission. 343 00:19:04,959 --> 00:19:09,292 He thinks that going to join an Islamist group in Somalia 344 00:19:09,375 --> 00:19:12,334 is like working with children in crisis. 345 00:19:12,417 --> 00:19:14,042 You know, conveniently ignores the fact 346 00:19:14,125 --> 00:19:15,959 that Al-Shabaab, they've been involved 347 00:19:16,042 --> 00:19:18,834 in a number of terror atrocities already, 348 00:19:18,918 --> 00:19:20,667 they've got blood on their hands, 349 00:19:20,751 --> 00:19:25,209 they are a hugely destabilizing force in the region. 350 00:19:32,167 --> 00:19:36,334 March 2009, Emwazi teamed up with a couple of friends 351 00:19:36,417 --> 00:19:39,334 and they set off to Tanzania 352 00:19:39,417 --> 00:19:42,751 where they said they were going to go on safari. 353 00:19:42,834 --> 00:19:46,167 ( plane engine whooshing ) 354 00:19:54,792 --> 00:19:56,918 Walton: I know and we know, we were running operations 355 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,876 against West London Islamists at the time 356 00:19:59,959 --> 00:20:02,751 and we were fully aware of their intentions, 357 00:20:02,834 --> 00:20:05,334 which were not to go to a safari. 358 00:20:13,918 --> 00:20:16,751 Verkaik: When they arrived in Dar es Salaam, 359 00:20:16,834 --> 00:20:21,000 they were greeted by the Tanzanian Security Services. 360 00:20:21,083 --> 00:20:25,959 They were locked up for the night, subject to beatings, 361 00:20:26,042 --> 00:20:28,042 generally roughed up you might say, 362 00:20:31,334 --> 00:20:34,542 and we know all this because of Emwazi's own accounts 363 00:20:34,626 --> 00:20:36,667 of what happened to him. 364 00:20:36,751 --> 00:20:38,751 ( Mohammed Emwazi speaking ) 365 00:21:04,751 --> 00:21:08,626 They went back via Amsterdam, when they arrived at Amsterdam, 366 00:21:08,709 --> 00:21:12,167 they were met again by security service officers 367 00:21:12,250 --> 00:21:16,292 from both the Dutch security service and MI5. 368 00:21:16,375 --> 00:21:17,500 ( Mohammed Emwazi speaking ) 369 00:21:34,918 --> 00:21:38,125 Verkaik: He was quizzed in Amsterdam for 12 or so hours. 370 00:21:38,209 --> 00:21:41,459 On his return to Dover he was further questioned 371 00:21:41,542 --> 00:21:43,667 by British Security Services. 372 00:21:43,751 --> 00:21:45,417 Walton: We made approaches to him, 373 00:21:45,500 --> 00:21:47,834 we wanted to give him the opportunity to work for us 374 00:21:47,918 --> 00:21:51,792 and to actually desist from becoming a terrorist. 375 00:21:51,876 --> 00:21:54,209 ( Mohammed Emwazi speaking ) 376 00:22:07,751 --> 00:22:09,250 They rammed home this idea 377 00:22:09,334 --> 00:22:12,459 that life could become uncomfortable for him 378 00:22:12,542 --> 00:22:15,626 unless of course he wanted to cooperate with them. 379 00:22:15,709 --> 00:22:18,751 Perhaps let us know what some of your friends are up to. 380 00:22:20,834 --> 00:22:22,500 To Emwazi this was a red rag to a bull. 381 00:22:22,584 --> 00:22:25,375 This is not something that he's prepared to do. 382 00:22:25,459 --> 00:22:28,876 It's an ultimate betrayal of everything that he has become. 383 00:22:28,959 --> 00:22:31,083 ( Mohammed Emwazi speaking ) 384 00:22:50,334 --> 00:22:54,250 The challenge for the service in the context of Jihadi John is understanding 385 00:22:54,334 --> 00:22:56,542 how his mental state is evolving 386 00:22:56,626 --> 00:22:58,584 because there's lots going on in his life, 387 00:22:58,667 --> 00:23:01,751 lots of traumatic events that would be traumatic to anybody 388 00:23:01,834 --> 00:23:06,792 let alone somebody who's already got a sense of persecution by the state. 389 00:23:06,876 --> 00:23:09,125 If there's any suggestion at all 390 00:23:09,209 --> 00:23:11,876 that it may have the opposite effect, 391 00:23:11,959 --> 00:23:13,959 then the recruitment ought not to take place. 392 00:23:14,042 --> 00:23:17,167 Walton: There's always a risk when you make these approaches 393 00:23:17,250 --> 00:23:21,000 and the chances of success are in any event 394 00:23:21,083 --> 00:23:24,584 fairly minimal, but you can't not do them. 395 00:23:24,667 --> 00:23:27,000 You have to give an individual an opportunity 396 00:23:27,083 --> 00:23:28,417 to not go down that path. 397 00:23:28,500 --> 00:23:29,876 But we've got to be careful. 398 00:23:29,959 --> 00:23:35,542 There's a nature/nurture debate within that. 399 00:23:35,626 --> 00:23:40,250 Was he always likely to carry out that kind of activity 400 00:23:40,334 --> 00:23:43,250 or did he carry out that activity just because he was approached. 401 00:23:43,334 --> 00:23:46,709 I think it's unlikely that was the turning point. 402 00:23:46,792 --> 00:23:50,667 Emwazi now had something to tell his friends. 403 00:23:50,751 --> 00:23:52,667 He'd been stopped by the cops. 404 00:23:52,751 --> 00:23:54,542 He'd been insulted, he would say, 405 00:23:54,626 --> 00:23:56,125 by the security services. 406 00:23:56,209 --> 00:23:59,083 He'd received a beating in Tanzania. 407 00:23:59,167 --> 00:24:01,959 You can imagine how proud he was, he'd come of age. 408 00:24:02,042 --> 00:24:04,584 He was a serious jihadi player now. 409 00:24:18,918 --> 00:24:22,125 El-Badawy: I mean in my line of work, I remember monitoring Al-Qaeda 410 00:24:22,209 --> 00:24:24,626 and by chance happened to track 411 00:24:24,709 --> 00:24:26,667 the rumblings of another group, 412 00:24:26,751 --> 00:24:29,209 another sort of fringe organization 413 00:24:29,292 --> 00:24:31,792 that had sprouted from old Al-Qaeda in Iraq. 414 00:24:31,876 --> 00:24:34,375 Baghdadi had spent much of 2010 building a network 415 00:24:34,459 --> 00:24:38,375 of veteran jihadists who had been running the course of time 416 00:24:38,459 --> 00:24:40,876 to find the next big conflict. 417 00:24:40,959 --> 00:24:43,125 ( bombs exploding ) 418 00:24:43,209 --> 00:24:44,876 News reporter: As the Syrian struggle intensifies, 419 00:24:44,959 --> 00:24:47,209 the battle to remove the Assad regime 420 00:24:47,292 --> 00:24:50,709 is pulling in volunteer fighters from across the Arab world. 421 00:24:52,334 --> 00:24:55,292 But the chaos unleashed by the uprising has also drawn in 422 00:24:55,375 --> 00:24:58,626 foreign jihadists, Islamic extremists, 423 00:24:58,709 --> 00:25:00,292 some believed to be affiliated to Al-Qaeda. 424 00:25:00,375 --> 00:25:01,709 ( speaking in foreign language ) 425 00:25:01,792 --> 00:25:05,584 And Abu Akbar Al-Baghdadi saw an opportunity 426 00:25:05,667 --> 00:25:08,334 and so he dispatched an operative named 427 00:25:08,417 --> 00:25:10,500 Al-Julani to Syria, 428 00:25:10,584 --> 00:25:13,751 and Al-Julani created the Jabhat al-Nusra, 429 00:25:13,834 --> 00:25:17,500 which was the initial extreme Islamic presence in Syria. 430 00:25:17,584 --> 00:25:19,500 News reporter: So far, US support for the rebels 431 00:25:19,584 --> 00:25:21,918 has been limited to non-lethal assistance, 432 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,918 communications equipment, humanitarian aid, 433 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,459 but no weapons. 434 00:25:26,542 --> 00:25:28,250 Arming a fragmented opposition 435 00:25:28,334 --> 00:25:31,000 that has some extremist elements carries a risk, 436 00:25:31,083 --> 00:25:34,584 analysts say, but so does staying on the side lines. 437 00:25:34,667 --> 00:25:37,167 What we've done in the case of Syria 438 00:25:37,250 --> 00:25:39,375 is just enough to keep the war alive, 439 00:25:39,459 --> 00:25:41,542 but never enough to allow it to be won. 440 00:25:41,626 --> 00:25:45,876 We never provided the support for the moderate elements 441 00:25:45,959 --> 00:25:49,792 of this uprising, and it was the more extreme elements 442 00:25:49,876 --> 00:25:52,667 that were pursuing the bolder action. 443 00:25:52,751 --> 00:25:54,626 El-Badawy: Jabhat al-Nusra started to embed themselves 444 00:25:54,709 --> 00:25:57,334 within the rebel forces in Syria and this was at a time 445 00:25:57,417 --> 00:25:59,042 when a lot of Rebel groups, 446 00:25:59,125 --> 00:26:00,626 whether they were Islamists or not, 447 00:26:00,709 --> 00:26:02,250 they were pretty disorganized 448 00:26:02,334 --> 00:26:04,959 and so any level of organization filled a vacuum, 449 00:26:05,042 --> 00:26:06,500 and Baghdadi was ready to do that 450 00:26:06,584 --> 00:26:09,584 because of the work he'd been doing since 2010. 451 00:26:09,667 --> 00:26:14,250 What Baghdadi built in Syria swept back in to 452 00:26:14,334 --> 00:26:17,000 first western Iraq drawing strength and money 453 00:26:17,083 --> 00:26:20,584 and ammunition and explosives and vehicles and so forth. 454 00:26:20,667 --> 00:26:23,167 This was a terrorist army 455 00:26:23,250 --> 00:26:25,959 and they spread through Iraq really like a cancer, 456 00:26:26,042 --> 00:26:28,542 and they move through the Sunni portions of Iraq. 457 00:26:28,626 --> 00:26:30,751 They get dangerously close to Baghdad, 458 00:26:30,834 --> 00:26:33,667 News reporter: The Iraqi government is losing control. 459 00:26:33,751 --> 00:26:36,584 This is happening with unbelievable speed. 460 00:26:36,667 --> 00:26:38,584 A violent Islamic group has launched 461 00:26:38,667 --> 00:26:40,542 something of an invasion. 462 00:26:40,626 --> 00:26:43,250 News reporter: A Sunni Islamic terror group formed last year 463 00:26:43,334 --> 00:26:46,667 after being expelled from Al-Qaeda for being too radical. 464 00:26:46,751 --> 00:26:48,292 But who are they? 465 00:26:48,375 --> 00:26:50,667 They're the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, 466 00:26:50,751 --> 00:26:52,500 I-S-I-S for short. 467 00:26:52,584 --> 00:26:55,542 Petraeus: And so you have ultimately tens of thousands 468 00:26:55,626 --> 00:26:58,959 of disenchanted Muslims who come to rise up 469 00:26:59,042 --> 00:27:02,792 in this very twisted interpretation of Islam 470 00:27:02,876 --> 00:27:07,083 that is propagated by a leader with extraordinary vision 471 00:27:07,167 --> 00:27:09,584 and quite extraordinary operational skills 472 00:27:09,667 --> 00:27:12,292 and this is, of course, Al-Baghdadi. 473 00:27:12,375 --> 00:27:15,459 The latest reports are that police forces in Mosul 474 00:27:15,542 --> 00:27:18,834 were taking off their uniforms, laying down their guns and leaving. 475 00:27:18,918 --> 00:27:20,417 News reporter: There is a video 476 00:27:20,500 --> 00:27:22,167 that has been released by this group ISIS 477 00:27:22,250 --> 00:27:25,417 that shows what seems to be a very grisly massacre 478 00:27:25,500 --> 00:27:29,500 about 150 Iraqi soldiers lined up, executed. 479 00:27:29,584 --> 00:27:34,209 The ISIS guys are effectively, using medieval warfare ethics. 480 00:27:34,292 --> 00:27:36,083 Of course, human society has moved on 481 00:27:36,167 --> 00:27:39,459 in the ensuing centuries and now we don't kill prisoners 482 00:27:39,542 --> 00:27:40,626 and we don't take slaves. 483 00:27:40,709 --> 00:27:42,500 ( speaking in foreign language ) 484 00:27:42,584 --> 00:27:45,667 ( people screaming ) 485 00:27:45,751 --> 00:27:49,626 ( speaking in foreign language ) 486 00:28:00,500 --> 00:28:02,584 Dr. Usama Hasan: But for ISIS they reject modern convention. 487 00:28:02,667 --> 00:28:06,042 They're trying to stick to literal interpretations of texts 488 00:28:06,125 --> 00:28:08,459 from the 7th and 8th centuries. 489 00:28:08,542 --> 00:28:11,834 So this is a battle for the heart and soul of Islam. 490 00:28:24,626 --> 00:28:27,250 Verkaik: In May 2009, Mohammed Emwazi 491 00:28:27,334 --> 00:28:29,918 has been through quite an ordeal. 492 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,250 When he finally gets back to London, 493 00:28:32,334 --> 00:28:35,042 still smarting from the indignities 494 00:28:35,125 --> 00:28:38,626 of the interrogations and detentions, 495 00:28:38,709 --> 00:28:41,584 he then discovers that his fiancée's family 496 00:28:41,667 --> 00:28:44,167 have received a visit from the security services. 497 00:28:44,250 --> 00:28:48,083 ( Mohammed Emwazi speaking ) 498 00:29:07,459 --> 00:29:10,751 Walton: So his fiancée was approached and, of course, 499 00:29:10,834 --> 00:29:12,250 she was then deterred if you like. 500 00:29:12,334 --> 00:29:14,334 She then walks away from him. 501 00:29:14,417 --> 00:29:18,834 Verkaik: For them, who are a very conservative Somali family. 502 00:29:18,918 --> 00:29:20,834 This is a problem. 503 00:29:20,918 --> 00:29:23,500 Not only have they messed with his own life, 504 00:29:23,584 --> 00:29:26,042 they've messed with his girlfriend's life. 505 00:29:26,125 --> 00:29:28,667 ( Mohammed Emwazi speaking ) 506 00:29:34,542 --> 00:29:37,459 Verkaik: This is a transgression that confirms everything 507 00:29:37,542 --> 00:29:42,000 that he's been told about the British Security Services. 508 00:29:42,083 --> 00:29:44,375 Walton: Bilal Berjawi, who'd returned back to London 509 00:29:44,459 --> 00:29:46,876 after being trained in a training camp in East Africa 510 00:29:46,959 --> 00:29:50,751 and, of course, he was inspiring his little cohort. 511 00:29:50,834 --> 00:29:54,292 Verkaik: The point about Berjawi was that he could motivate 512 00:29:54,375 --> 00:29:56,500 all of the London boys and if he said, 513 00:29:56,584 --> 00:29:58,626 "Let's go 'round rattling tins 514 00:29:58,709 --> 00:30:00,751 and collecting cash outside the mosques," 515 00:30:00,834 --> 00:30:02,083 then they'd all do it 516 00:30:02,167 --> 00:30:03,584 and Emwazi obviously got caught up in that. 517 00:30:03,667 --> 00:30:06,167 The money was being transferred back over to Somalia, 518 00:30:06,250 --> 00:30:07,709 then obviously being used to buy firearms 519 00:30:07,792 --> 00:30:09,209 and to support Al-Shabaab. 520 00:30:09,292 --> 00:30:11,584 Effectively that's terrorist fundraising, 521 00:30:11,667 --> 00:30:12,959 that's what he was engaged in. 522 00:30:16,459 --> 00:30:19,709 Verkaik: While he's being stopped when he goes out, questioned. 523 00:30:19,792 --> 00:30:22,542 He's being followed, he's having to get involved 524 00:30:22,626 --> 00:30:25,000 in counter surveillance activities, 525 00:30:25,083 --> 00:30:27,417 so he's sort of jumping on trains at the last minute. 526 00:30:27,500 --> 00:30:29,542 He's leaving his mobile phone at home. 527 00:30:29,626 --> 00:30:31,500 He's meeting in parks with associates. 528 00:30:31,584 --> 00:30:34,500 I mean he's looking very suspicious. 529 00:30:34,584 --> 00:30:39,709 McKay: As a young Muslim on the fringes of extremist activities 530 00:30:39,792 --> 00:30:41,584 he was a legitimate target. 531 00:30:41,667 --> 00:30:44,667 In fact, the service would have been failing in its duty 532 00:30:44,751 --> 00:30:48,542 if it didn't keep him under some kind of observation. 533 00:30:48,626 --> 00:30:50,626 Walton: What you have with individuals like this, 534 00:30:50,709 --> 00:30:53,250 you have an emerging intelligence picture, 535 00:30:53,334 --> 00:30:56,125 based on intelligence that you're receiving 536 00:30:56,209 --> 00:30:58,834 from individuals that are associating with them, 537 00:30:58,918 --> 00:31:02,375 who are working for us and they're telling us 538 00:31:02,459 --> 00:31:05,959 that he's becoming more hard-lined, more extremist 539 00:31:06,042 --> 00:31:08,834 and more of a threat. 540 00:31:08,918 --> 00:31:12,792 Verkaik: Emwazi's family were concerned about their oldest son. 541 00:31:12,876 --> 00:31:15,375 His younger brother Omar, who I met and who told me 542 00:31:15,459 --> 00:31:17,417 that the family hatched a plan 543 00:31:17,500 --> 00:31:21,459 where he would travel to Kuwait, stay with his grandmother 544 00:31:21,542 --> 00:31:23,584 and he would escape, not just the attention 545 00:31:23,667 --> 00:31:26,459 of the security services, but also the influence 546 00:31:26,542 --> 00:31:29,292 of the gang that he was running with 547 00:31:29,375 --> 00:31:30,709 and that's what he did. 548 00:31:30,792 --> 00:31:33,375 He took a job with a computer company 549 00:31:33,459 --> 00:31:35,751 where he was involved in the technical side of the company 550 00:31:35,834 --> 00:31:38,042 and he also had a salesman role as well 551 00:31:38,125 --> 00:31:41,626 and the boss thought he was an excellent worker. 552 00:31:41,709 --> 00:31:43,667 He'd met another girlfriend, 553 00:31:43,751 --> 00:31:47,292 someone who he also wanted to marry. 554 00:31:47,375 --> 00:31:49,417 So he was still intent on having a family life. 555 00:31:49,500 --> 00:31:52,792 He was enjoying his new life, he was happy. 556 00:31:57,959 --> 00:32:00,667 It's always a question about what drives a terrorist 557 00:32:00,751 --> 00:32:02,626 to become a terrorist. 558 00:32:02,709 --> 00:32:05,542 and it's often a range of motivations. 559 00:32:05,626 --> 00:32:08,334 It's not just a top-down process of recruitment. 560 00:32:08,417 --> 00:32:09,834 As we used to say, the obligation 561 00:32:09,918 --> 00:32:11,584 is not to convert the entire world, 562 00:32:11,667 --> 00:32:14,667 but to make the truth accessible to those that seek it, 563 00:32:14,751 --> 00:32:15,834 so these are seekers. 564 00:32:15,918 --> 00:32:17,375 If you look at what motivates 565 00:32:17,459 --> 00:32:20,751 and what motivated young people to go out to Syria 566 00:32:20,834 --> 00:32:24,918 many of them were going to pursue a romantic notion 567 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:29,292 of a high-minded, religiously inspired, faithful, 568 00:32:29,375 --> 00:32:33,334 pure way of life in a way that young people 569 00:32:33,417 --> 00:32:35,667 in lots of countries will want to do something worthwhile 570 00:32:35,751 --> 00:32:36,959 with their lives. 571 00:32:37,042 --> 00:32:39,042 Brutal honesty, I didn't want to sit 572 00:32:39,125 --> 00:32:41,500 in a nine-to-five job. 573 00:32:41,584 --> 00:32:46,042 I wanted to be part of something bigger. 574 00:32:46,125 --> 00:32:49,626 My dad, joined the RAF when he was around about 17. 575 00:32:49,709 --> 00:32:52,209 He saw a lot of suffering, a lot of things there. 576 00:32:52,292 --> 00:32:54,209 I think that's when he first started 577 00:32:54,292 --> 00:32:56,375 to get this love of helping people 578 00:32:56,459 --> 00:32:59,125 I feel especially attracted by the Middle East 579 00:32:59,209 --> 00:33:03,209 because it is close and still very different, 580 00:33:03,292 --> 00:33:06,792 and it is also where the roots of our civilization are. 581 00:33:08,459 --> 00:33:10,167 I became a holy warrior at one point. 582 00:33:10,250 --> 00:33:13,834 At the age of 19, I took part in jihad in Afghanistan 583 00:33:13,918 --> 00:33:16,334 fighting against Afghan communist soldiers 584 00:33:16,417 --> 00:33:18,042 who were backed by the Soviet Union. 585 00:33:18,125 --> 00:33:19,500 For me, the experience of the jihad 586 00:33:19,584 --> 00:33:21,042 was actually very positive 587 00:33:21,125 --> 00:33:23,209 and we were defending oppressed people 588 00:33:23,292 --> 00:33:26,083 and taking part in military activity when you're 19, 589 00:33:26,167 --> 00:33:29,334 it's really cool to fire guns at that age. 590 00:33:31,459 --> 00:33:35,459 Woman: Jim was driven by what he saw 591 00:33:35,542 --> 00:33:40,209 and the more he saw of the suffering of the people, 592 00:33:40,292 --> 00:33:43,584 the more compelled he felt to tell their stories. 593 00:33:43,667 --> 00:33:45,542 So there was a dilemma around the journalists 594 00:33:45,626 --> 00:33:47,918 and the aid workers who were traveling out there 595 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,250 and in many respects they were causing us more and more problems. 596 00:33:51,334 --> 00:33:55,042 Bethany Haines: My dad went over to Croatia and then on to Libya 597 00:33:55,125 --> 00:33:59,792 just giving out aid and then he got the job going to Syria. 598 00:33:59,876 --> 00:34:03,459 Syria was the single biggest humanitarian crisis at the time. 599 00:34:03,542 --> 00:34:05,417 I felt like I had something to offer. 600 00:34:05,500 --> 00:34:08,959 Um... I guess it was exciting. 601 00:34:09,042 --> 00:34:11,792 I thought that I got some addiction to adrenaline, 602 00:34:11,876 --> 00:34:15,667 but while some war reporters may be 603 00:34:15,751 --> 00:34:17,250 only driven by adrenaline, 604 00:34:17,334 --> 00:34:20,125 I was also driven to tell the story of people. 605 00:34:20,209 --> 00:34:22,459 And I think as it got more dangerous, 606 00:34:22,542 --> 00:34:27,959 more and more media were pulling out of Syria 607 00:34:28,042 --> 00:34:31,209 and so I think he felt more and more compelled 608 00:34:31,292 --> 00:34:34,667 to do what he felt he knew how to do. 609 00:34:34,751 --> 00:34:36,542 Walton: And of course to a war reporter, 610 00:34:36,626 --> 00:34:37,751 it's part of their day job 611 00:34:37,834 --> 00:34:39,375 to go to these difficult areas, 612 00:34:39,459 --> 00:34:42,375 but there was just massively high risk for anyone 613 00:34:42,459 --> 00:34:43,584 traveling into that region. 614 00:34:43,667 --> 00:34:45,626 ( gunfire blasting ) 615 00:34:45,709 --> 00:34:49,751 ( singing in foreign language ) 616 00:34:54,209 --> 00:34:56,334 Walton: At one time, you had Islamic State 617 00:34:56,417 --> 00:34:59,209 pulling people out of cars, abducting them 618 00:34:59,292 --> 00:35:01,792 and then they were filming all of this process. 619 00:35:01,876 --> 00:35:03,834 Haines: And these particular videos 620 00:35:03,918 --> 00:35:06,709 have been deliberately put out in the open for ISIS 621 00:35:06,792 --> 00:35:12,209 to communicate its processes of rooting out spies 622 00:35:12,292 --> 00:35:15,667 and people who are trying to undermine the cause for ISIS. 623 00:35:23,167 --> 00:35:26,792 Walton: Once an individual knows that they are under the scrutiny 624 00:35:26,876 --> 00:35:29,918 of the state they then have to develop, 625 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:31,959 if you like, cover stories for their activity. 626 00:35:32,042 --> 00:35:36,083 Verkaik: Unfortunately, Emwazi has problems with his teeth. 627 00:35:36,167 --> 00:35:37,542 He tries Kuwaiti dentists, 628 00:35:37,626 --> 00:35:40,167 but none of them can solve his severe tooth ache. 629 00:35:40,250 --> 00:35:43,709 He can't sleep, so he speaks to his family 630 00:35:43,792 --> 00:35:45,459 and they say come back. 631 00:35:45,542 --> 00:35:47,417 We were receiving intelligence that potentially 632 00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:50,500 he's still aspiring to become a hardened terrorist. 633 00:35:50,584 --> 00:35:53,125 I would only say that what we don't know is 634 00:35:53,209 --> 00:35:54,792 what else he's doing in Kuwait. 635 00:35:54,876 --> 00:35:57,834 All we know is that he's coming back and forth. 636 00:35:57,918 --> 00:36:00,334 So he comes back for the second time. 637 00:36:00,417 --> 00:36:03,709 Walton: Of course raising again the suspicion of the authorities 638 00:36:03,792 --> 00:36:06,334 that he was not content with his life in Kuwait. 639 00:36:06,417 --> 00:36:10,167 Verkaik: He turns up at Heathrow Airport a few days later, 640 00:36:10,250 --> 00:36:13,083 this time he's detained in the airport. 641 00:36:13,167 --> 00:36:14,584 Walton: According to his father, 642 00:36:14,667 --> 00:36:17,500 he's prevented from going back to Kuwait, 643 00:36:17,584 --> 00:36:19,667 not by the Kuwaiti Intelligence Services, 644 00:36:19,751 --> 00:36:21,375 but by British pressure 645 00:36:21,459 --> 00:36:23,417 on the Kuwaiti Intelligence Services. 646 00:36:23,500 --> 00:36:25,209 McKay: Would it be a legitimate use 647 00:36:25,292 --> 00:36:28,250 of the security services powers to invite another state 648 00:36:28,334 --> 00:36:30,667 to decline a visa? Possibly. 649 00:36:30,751 --> 00:36:33,000 But it's equally as plausible that the Kuwaiti government 650 00:36:33,083 --> 00:36:34,834 just didn't want him in the country. 651 00:36:34,918 --> 00:36:37,500 Verkaik: Unfortunately, he learns while he's in London 652 00:36:37,584 --> 00:36:39,417 that Kuwaiti Security Services 653 00:36:39,500 --> 00:36:42,500 have visited his Kuwaiti fiancée's family. 654 00:36:42,584 --> 00:36:43,918 They have introduced the idea 655 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,209 that he may be linked to terrorism. 656 00:36:47,292 --> 00:36:50,417 Again, the family call the wedding off. 657 00:36:50,500 --> 00:36:53,792 His whole life is being, as far as he is concerned, 658 00:36:53,876 --> 00:36:55,626 funneled in one direction. 659 00:36:55,709 --> 00:36:57,334 Can't go to Kuwait, 660 00:36:57,417 --> 00:37:00,584 finding it impossible to exist in London, 661 00:37:00,667 --> 00:37:03,876 his intentions are now focused on extreme lifestyle, 662 00:37:03,959 --> 00:37:05,000 the full jihad. 663 00:37:10,292 --> 00:37:13,417 Emwazi was defiant even in those early days 664 00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:16,375 in terms of his approaching an organization called CAGE, 665 00:37:16,459 --> 00:37:20,751 who purport to represent the interests of Islamic causes. 666 00:37:20,834 --> 00:37:23,042 He visits CAGE, he discusses with them 667 00:37:23,125 --> 00:37:26,334 his problems he's having with the security services. 668 00:37:26,417 --> 00:37:28,334 They suggest that if he really wants 669 00:37:28,417 --> 00:37:30,876 to get the security services off his case, 670 00:37:30,959 --> 00:37:32,375 he should go public. 671 00:37:32,459 --> 00:37:37,000 And this is when I am introduced to Mohammed Emwazi. 672 00:37:37,083 --> 00:37:40,500 We speak to each other on the telephone, we switch emails. 673 00:37:40,584 --> 00:37:43,459 Emwazi and I agreed to meet at a cafe. 674 00:37:43,542 --> 00:37:48,083 It became very clear early on that this was a serious man. 675 00:37:48,167 --> 00:37:51,500 This wasn't someone who thought it was interesting, 676 00:37:51,584 --> 00:37:53,083 exciting perhaps, to sit down 677 00:37:53,167 --> 00:37:54,751 and chat about his experiences. 678 00:37:54,834 --> 00:37:56,626 This was a defiant young man, 679 00:37:56,709 --> 00:38:00,584 who was convinced that he had been the victim 680 00:38:00,667 --> 00:38:03,918 of a wrongdoing, and it was my job to try 681 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,751 and help him right that wrong, which was fine by me, 682 00:38:07,834 --> 00:38:10,792 because give us a good story, and I'll print it. 683 00:38:10,876 --> 00:38:12,083 That was my approach. 684 00:38:12,167 --> 00:38:13,876 But as the conversation went on, 685 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,417 he started to tell me about the fiancées 686 00:38:16,500 --> 00:38:20,500 and how the police had destroyed these engagements, 687 00:38:20,584 --> 00:38:23,542 and that was what sold his story to me. 688 00:38:23,626 --> 00:38:27,834 It seemed to me, if I believed him, a real step too far. 689 00:38:35,459 --> 00:38:38,751 So, by approaching CAGE, by speaking to a journalist, 690 00:38:38,834 --> 00:38:43,459 this was his strategy for countering our interventions. 691 00:38:43,542 --> 00:38:45,626 These are the early signs of him 692 00:38:45,709 --> 00:38:49,459 if you like being offensive against the state. 693 00:38:51,959 --> 00:38:54,334 Verkaik: Unfortunately, he'd emailed me back 694 00:38:54,417 --> 00:38:56,626 saying he'd spoken to the families 695 00:38:56,709 --> 00:38:59,250 and he wasn't confident they would agree 696 00:38:59,334 --> 00:39:01,417 to have their pictures in the newspaper. 697 00:39:01,500 --> 00:39:04,083 He had pictures, but he couldn't pass them on to me 698 00:39:04,167 --> 00:39:06,167 because that would be a breach of trust. 699 00:39:06,250 --> 00:39:09,083 So, I had sort of half a story, really. 700 00:39:09,167 --> 00:39:12,000 So, we never really got the story off the ground, 701 00:39:12,083 --> 00:39:15,918 and that was the last contact I had with him. 702 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,042 ( rockets roar ) 703 00:39:19,125 --> 00:39:20,667 James Foley: Syrian government forces 704 00:39:20,751 --> 00:39:23,584 continued to bombard Aleppo beating back rebels 705 00:39:23,667 --> 00:39:25,709 of the Free Syrian Army, but the battle 706 00:39:25,792 --> 00:39:27,334 for the country's largest city 707 00:39:27,417 --> 00:39:30,292 is also taking a deadly toll on civilians. 708 00:39:30,375 --> 00:39:32,500 The regime has bombed hospitals, homes, 709 00:39:32,584 --> 00:39:35,417 even people standing in line for bread. 710 00:39:35,500 --> 00:39:38,542 Diane Foley: I guess the biggest, most obvious silence, 711 00:39:38,626 --> 00:39:41,459 was Thanksgiving of 2012. 712 00:39:41,542 --> 00:39:47,709 Jim was always very cognizant of holidays or birthdays, or... 713 00:39:47,792 --> 00:39:50,125 and certainly Thanksgiving. 714 00:39:50,209 --> 00:39:53,083 To not hear from him was odd... 715 00:39:54,375 --> 00:39:57,751 and so we were a bit concerned. 716 00:39:57,834 --> 00:40:00,042 And it actually was the next morning, 717 00:40:00,125 --> 00:40:01,667 the morning after Thanksgiving, 718 00:40:01,751 --> 00:40:04,542 when one of his colleagues called to tell us 719 00:40:04,626 --> 00:40:06,417 that he had been captured. 720 00:40:06,500 --> 00:40:10,000 So... that confirmed our fear. 721 00:40:18,500 --> 00:40:21,083 Nicolas Henin: Raqqa was taken six weeks or so 722 00:40:21,167 --> 00:40:23,334 before I arrived in the city 723 00:40:23,417 --> 00:40:26,209 and I wanted to do mostly political reporting. 724 00:40:26,292 --> 00:40:31,167 We entered the former headquarters of the Ba'ath Party. 725 00:40:31,250 --> 00:40:35,959 The following day we came back to their headquarters 726 00:40:36,042 --> 00:40:38,709 and they just attacked us in the street. 727 00:40:38,792 --> 00:40:40,042 That was a trap. 728 00:40:41,876 --> 00:40:44,292 And they drove me for about 20 minutes. 729 00:40:46,500 --> 00:40:50,709 When they removed the blindfold I was in a bathroom 730 00:40:50,792 --> 00:40:53,751 and they locked the door. 731 00:40:53,834 --> 00:40:56,334 ( door slams ) 732 00:40:56,417 --> 00:41:01,834 I noticed the bars of the window were potentially a bit weak 733 00:41:01,918 --> 00:41:07,709 and in the evening, I removed the bars jumped outside. 734 00:41:07,792 --> 00:41:11,709 I was free and that was one of the most exciting nights 735 00:41:11,792 --> 00:41:15,209 of my life, even though I was terrified, 736 00:41:15,292 --> 00:41:19,042 especially the first 100 meters or so that I ran, 737 00:41:19,125 --> 00:41:22,417 and I was praying that no one would have seen me. 738 00:41:24,042 --> 00:41:29,626 But after I took some distance, I was like, Oh, that's so good! 739 00:41:29,709 --> 00:41:32,250 That's so good! I am winning! 740 00:41:33,292 --> 00:41:34,584 These bastards! 741 00:41:35,584 --> 00:41:36,792 What a good trick! 742 00:41:36,876 --> 00:41:39,834 ( man panting ) 743 00:41:45,584 --> 00:41:46,709 I was euphoric. 744 00:41:49,876 --> 00:41:51,626 I wanted to reach Raqqa. 745 00:41:51,709 --> 00:41:55,167 I noticed already the lights of Raqqa on the horizon, 746 00:41:55,250 --> 00:42:00,876 so I had the direction and very early in the morning 747 00:42:00,959 --> 00:42:02,626 I arrived in a village. 748 00:42:02,709 --> 00:42:06,918 As I entered the streets all the dogs start barking... 749 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:13,042 and I'm like, "Oh, shit, I wanted to be discreet." 750 00:42:13,125 --> 00:42:18,792 And the first people I met were two guys wearing pajamas, 751 00:42:18,876 --> 00:42:20,375 and they were jihadis. 752 00:42:20,459 --> 00:42:22,000 I couldn't recognize them 753 00:42:22,083 --> 00:42:25,250 because nothing differentiated jihadis wearing pajamas 754 00:42:25,334 --> 00:42:27,459 from someone else wearing pajamas, 755 00:42:27,542 --> 00:42:32,209 and they took me back to the local police station 756 00:42:32,292 --> 00:42:37,417 and they rode me back to the very same cell. 757 00:42:37,500 --> 00:42:41,792 To be taken back is almost worse than to be taken. 758 00:42:43,209 --> 00:42:45,584 I was like... ahh! 759 00:42:45,667 --> 00:42:46,709 Wow. 760 00:42:46,792 --> 00:42:48,709 Now the real shit begins. 761 00:42:53,959 --> 00:42:56,709 ( bomb exploding ) 762 00:42:56,792 --> 00:43:00,834 Walton: In 2012, Emwazi's two mentors, 763 00:43:00,918 --> 00:43:04,459 Bilal Berjawi and Mohamed Sakr, are killed in drone strikes 764 00:43:04,542 --> 00:43:07,125 by the American administration. 765 00:43:07,209 --> 00:43:09,834 Verkaik: This must have a been a devastating moment for him 766 00:43:09,918 --> 00:43:11,417 because while they were away, 767 00:43:11,500 --> 00:43:14,751 Emwazi was close to both their families. 768 00:43:14,834 --> 00:43:19,459 He was involved in looking after Bilal Berjawi's, um, son. 769 00:43:19,542 --> 00:43:21,959 He took a sort of an uncle's role. 770 00:43:22,042 --> 00:43:24,334 I think it was probably a turning point. 771 00:43:24,417 --> 00:43:26,792 Walton: And then you have a bigger problem on your hands 772 00:43:26,876 --> 00:43:28,667 because then they're more determined to travel 773 00:43:28,751 --> 00:43:31,709 and they'll find a way, as indeed Emwazi did. 774 00:43:31,792 --> 00:43:35,125 At some point in 2012, Mohammed Emwazi 775 00:43:35,209 --> 00:43:37,459 managed to slip out of the country. 776 00:43:37,542 --> 00:43:40,083 Perhaps he joined a convoy with other friends, 777 00:43:40,167 --> 00:43:43,751 we're not entirely sure who he went with. 778 00:43:43,834 --> 00:43:48,334 So what we'd hoped to stop came to pass. 779 00:43:48,417 --> 00:43:51,542 In a sense all we did was held back the inevitable. 780 00:43:51,626 --> 00:43:55,459 Whether we contributed to his further radicalization 781 00:43:55,542 --> 00:44:00,542 and his clear anger and vitriol against the British state 782 00:44:00,626 --> 00:44:04,626 by stopping him from travel is an interesting question. 783 00:44:07,709 --> 00:44:10,292 News reporter: More than 70,000 Syrian refugees 784 00:44:10,375 --> 00:44:13,584 have flooded into Turkey in the past 24 hours, 785 00:44:13,667 --> 00:44:15,459 according to UN officials, 786 00:44:15,542 --> 00:44:19,584 and that number could grow to more than 100,000. 787 00:44:24,584 --> 00:44:26,584 I was working for an organization called Impact Initiative 788 00:44:26,667 --> 00:44:28,751 so we were doing the humanitarian data assessment, 789 00:44:28,834 --> 00:44:32,417 providing data that would inform humanitarian programming. 790 00:44:32,500 --> 00:44:35,667 David was a, he was a big guy. 791 00:44:35,751 --> 00:44:37,000 When you first meet him, 792 00:44:37,083 --> 00:44:40,751 he was someone who inspires confidence 793 00:44:40,834 --> 00:44:42,417 when you're going into places. 794 00:44:42,500 --> 00:44:44,083 He was a wonderful guy. 795 00:44:44,167 --> 00:44:46,834 We had very similar ideas as to the good and the bad 796 00:44:46,918 --> 00:44:48,375 of what we were doing. 797 00:44:48,459 --> 00:44:50,083 I think we connected really quickly 798 00:44:50,167 --> 00:44:54,125 and felt comfortable around each other. 799 00:44:56,459 --> 00:44:59,375 We spent the Saturday, Sunday primarily in IBP camps 800 00:44:59,459 --> 00:45:02,209 moving around and also for me, it was the first time 801 00:45:02,292 --> 00:45:03,542 that I was in Syria. 802 00:45:05,083 --> 00:45:08,125 The 12th of March, I think was a Tuesday, 803 00:45:08,209 --> 00:45:12,083 we'd gone in in the morning and we went to a town, 804 00:45:12,167 --> 00:45:16,125 a small town called Atarib, and on our way back, 805 00:45:16,209 --> 00:45:19,500 I was on the phone with my boss in Geneva, 806 00:45:19,584 --> 00:45:24,626 and at one stage we passed two black cars. 807 00:45:24,709 --> 00:45:27,500 We were on a dirt track and we got to a junction 808 00:45:27,584 --> 00:45:28,834 where the road sort of widened 809 00:45:28,918 --> 00:45:32,459 and became a more normal road I guess, 810 00:45:32,542 --> 00:45:35,042 and that's where these cars who had been now behind us, 811 00:45:35,125 --> 00:45:36,709 sort of one of them overtook. 812 00:45:44,959 --> 00:45:50,292 They blocked us out, and these masked fighters jumped out and surrounded the car. 813 00:45:50,375 --> 00:45:53,250 I actually dropped the phone with my boss still on the line. 814 00:45:53,334 --> 00:45:55,334 I managed to say to him that we were getting kidnapped, 815 00:45:55,417 --> 00:45:57,167 that we had a problem. 816 00:45:57,250 --> 00:45:58,834 It all happened very, very quickly. 817 00:45:58,918 --> 00:46:01,667 I just have like flash recollections. 818 00:46:08,709 --> 00:46:12,709 I just remember the car, faced down on the ground, 819 00:46:12,792 --> 00:46:16,459 in the boot, David was put in just before me, 820 00:46:16,542 --> 00:46:18,542 and then they couldn't get the boot shut, 821 00:46:18,626 --> 00:46:22,459 and that's where I saw a guy on his bicycle, cycle past. 822 00:46:22,542 --> 00:46:25,459 You could see he was sort of like, 823 00:46:25,542 --> 00:46:28,459 but at the same time he just cycled continually. 824 00:46:28,542 --> 00:46:31,792 It just happened in a flash. 825 00:46:31,876 --> 00:46:35,667 The next thing you know, we're speeding away, very very fast. 826 00:46:40,542 --> 00:46:42,042 Haines: On my 16th birthday, 827 00:46:42,125 --> 00:46:43,834 I was actually in France with some friends. 828 00:46:43,918 --> 00:46:46,292 My dad would always contact me on my birthday, 829 00:46:46,375 --> 00:46:48,584 no matter where he was and it got later on at night 830 00:46:48,667 --> 00:46:50,417 and I thought, something's not right 831 00:46:50,500 --> 00:46:52,709 and I started to get a sinking feeling, 832 00:46:52,792 --> 00:46:55,209 so I phoned my mum quite upset and said to her, 833 00:46:55,292 --> 00:46:57,542 "Look I've got a really bad feeling. 834 00:46:57,626 --> 00:46:59,584 You need to find out what's happened." 835 00:46:59,667 --> 00:47:01,667 My head automatically assumed the worst, 836 00:47:01,751 --> 00:47:03,417 so when she said he was kidnapped 837 00:47:03,500 --> 00:47:05,834 it was actually a part of a relief 838 00:47:05,918 --> 00:47:08,167 to find out he hadn't been killed, 839 00:47:08,250 --> 00:47:09,876 but of course your mind goes everywhere. 840 00:47:09,959 --> 00:47:12,125 I thought why would someone kidnap someone 841 00:47:12,209 --> 00:47:14,709 who was only there to help. 842 00:47:20,751 --> 00:47:24,209 Walton: So Emwazi finds a way out to the new frontier, 843 00:47:24,292 --> 00:47:27,000 to the new global jihad in Syria, 844 00:47:27,083 --> 00:47:29,167 and very quickly finds a new mentor, 845 00:47:29,250 --> 00:47:31,209 a Chechen warlord called Shishani, 846 00:47:31,292 --> 00:47:35,584 who was leading the ground called K.A.M. within Syria, 847 00:47:35,667 --> 00:47:37,042 and it was really a breakaway group 848 00:47:37,125 --> 00:47:39,626 from Al-Qaeda or al-Nusra front. 849 00:47:39,709 --> 00:47:44,709 Verkaik: Shishani, a man who'd had war experience in Chechnya, 850 00:47:44,792 --> 00:47:49,375 had developed a brutal reputation for committing atrocities, 851 00:47:49,459 --> 00:47:54,876 but who saw in Emwazi someone who would follow orders to the letter. 852 00:47:54,959 --> 00:47:57,209 Walton: Who would carry out almost any brutal act 853 00:47:57,292 --> 00:47:58,918 if directed to do so, 854 00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,834 and Emwazi became quite well-known and reliable, 855 00:48:01,918 --> 00:48:04,626 if you like, to the leadership of this new group. 856 00:48:04,709 --> 00:48:08,709 ( speaking in foreign language ) 857 00:48:15,709 --> 00:48:19,209 Verkaik: Kata'ib Al Muhajireen had become slightly fractured, 858 00:48:19,292 --> 00:48:22,125 half the group was aligned with Al-Qaeda, 859 00:48:22,209 --> 00:48:24,667 and the other half, led by Shishani, 860 00:48:24,751 --> 00:48:26,667 were more interested in making links 861 00:48:26,751 --> 00:48:29,876 with the emerging Islamic State as is now. 862 00:48:29,959 --> 00:48:33,667 And Shishani decided he would take his group 863 00:48:33,751 --> 00:48:37,542 to join the Islamic State, and with him... 864 00:48:38,667 --> 00:48:40,292 Mohammed Emwazi followed. 865 00:48:41,751 --> 00:48:43,083 El-Badawy: Once within Islamic State, 866 00:48:43,167 --> 00:48:44,834 Emwazi and Shishani are led 867 00:48:44,918 --> 00:48:47,751 by the Emir of Aleppo, Amr al-Absi. 868 00:48:47,834 --> 00:48:49,667 Al-Absi's a seasoned terrorist 869 00:48:49,751 --> 00:48:52,125 and a close confident of the ISIS leader, 870 00:48:52,209 --> 00:48:53,751 Al Bakr Al-Baghdadi. 871 00:48:55,250 --> 00:48:56,792 Under the guidance of Al-Absi, 872 00:48:56,876 --> 00:48:59,709 Emwazi and Shishani, along with some UK recruits. 873 00:48:59,792 --> 00:49:03,209 Alexander Kotey, Aine Davis, and El Shafee El-sheik, 874 00:49:03,292 --> 00:49:06,500 started a mass hostage-taking campaign 875 00:49:06,584 --> 00:49:08,459 all across Northern Syria. 876 00:49:08,542 --> 00:49:11,459 With that, they captured hundreds of Syrian prisoners, 877 00:49:11,542 --> 00:49:16,542 but they also captured a very important group of western hostages. 878 00:49:16,626 --> 00:49:20,500 The Islamic State emirs felt that because of his loyalty 879 00:49:20,584 --> 00:49:22,334 and because of his willingness 880 00:49:22,417 --> 00:49:25,584 to carry out acts of brutality without question, 881 00:49:25,667 --> 00:49:28,167 Emwazi would be perfect for this, 882 00:49:28,250 --> 00:49:30,209 and perhaps they were right. 883 00:49:30,292 --> 00:49:33,209 So, Emwazi, this career jihadist, 884 00:49:33,292 --> 00:49:34,959 is moved through the ranks. 885 00:49:35,042 --> 00:49:38,000 He graduates effectively, suddenly with the opportunity 886 00:49:38,083 --> 00:49:41,500 to actually fulfill his dreams as a proper global jihadi. 887 00:49:51,125 --> 00:49:54,792 Henin: The faces of most of our guards, we haven't seen them. 888 00:49:54,876 --> 00:49:57,375 The funny thing is that we nicknamed them. 889 00:49:57,459 --> 00:49:59,167 It's a kind of coping mechanism. 890 00:49:59,250 --> 00:50:03,792 There is something you don't control, you bad guard. 891 00:50:03,834 --> 00:50:07,250 It is the name that I give to you, 892 00:50:07,334 --> 00:50:09,250 and this you will never control it. 893 00:50:09,334 --> 00:50:13,417 The most common name that were known through the media 894 00:50:13,500 --> 00:50:16,042 were, of course, The Beatles. 895 00:50:16,125 --> 00:50:17,792 The guys that we nicknamed The Beatles 896 00:50:17,876 --> 00:50:22,542 were British born, native British accents. 897 00:50:22,626 --> 00:50:23,918 And they were the first people 898 00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:25,584 that conversed with us in the car. 899 00:50:28,042 --> 00:50:30,209 When they'd taken our passports, I think, 900 00:50:30,292 --> 00:50:33,209 the very first thing was when they said, 901 00:50:33,292 --> 00:50:37,000 "David, welcome to Syria, you mutt," 902 00:50:37,083 --> 00:50:39,167 or something like that, 903 00:50:39,250 --> 00:50:40,876 'cause I think they'd looked through his passport 904 00:50:40,959 --> 00:50:44,417 and then they asked David if I spoke any English. 905 00:50:44,500 --> 00:50:46,709 Interviewer: So, they actually kidnapped you? 906 00:50:47,834 --> 00:50:48,751 Yep. 907 00:50:51,083 --> 00:50:57,334 And so, they reappeared and reappeared throughout, 908 00:50:57,417 --> 00:50:59,417 um... 909 00:50:59,500 --> 00:51:01,209 that first month. 910 00:51:01,292 --> 00:51:05,834 Henin: So, the Beatles were obviously British hostage takers. 911 00:51:05,918 --> 00:51:08,751 We understood that they probably were friends 912 00:51:08,834 --> 00:51:11,375 even before arriving to Syria 913 00:51:11,459 --> 00:51:14,375 because they were very close. 914 00:51:14,459 --> 00:51:17,000 They were not always together, 915 00:51:17,083 --> 00:51:19,584 but most of the time at least two of them 916 00:51:19,667 --> 00:51:21,209 would come together. 917 00:51:21,292 --> 00:51:22,584 John was the boss. 918 00:51:22,667 --> 00:51:26,417 He was the one giving orders to the others. 919 00:51:26,500 --> 00:51:30,500 He was the one in charge of collecting the proofs of lives. 920 00:51:32,751 --> 00:51:35,751 George was the punisher. 921 00:51:35,834 --> 00:51:39,876 He was the most violent in the group. 922 00:51:42,751 --> 00:51:44,375 I remember his, uh... 923 00:51:45,918 --> 00:51:48,417 fat hands, 924 00:51:48,500 --> 00:51:50,250 and the third one was Ringo. 925 00:51:51,626 --> 00:51:53,751 Ringo was the preacher. 926 00:51:53,834 --> 00:51:55,834 The less violent of these three. 927 00:51:55,918 --> 00:51:59,542 The one would from time to time explain to us 928 00:51:59,626 --> 00:52:02,209 why they were doing that. 929 00:52:02,292 --> 00:52:05,459 Emwazi was in control of what happened. 930 00:52:05,542 --> 00:52:08,792 I mean, he initiated and allowed a lot of our punishment, 931 00:52:08,876 --> 00:52:10,918 and he was very much involved. 932 00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:14,500 He also sort of set the tone for the guards. 933 00:52:14,584 --> 00:52:16,125 They took a lot of their inspiration 934 00:52:16,209 --> 00:52:19,709 from what they had heard about places like Abu Ghraib, 935 00:52:19,792 --> 00:52:23,375 and what the coalition forces in other countries had done. 936 00:52:23,459 --> 00:52:27,959 Guantanamo was referenced all the time 937 00:52:28,042 --> 00:52:29,626 by Emwazi, in particular. 938 00:52:29,709 --> 00:52:31,417 But the orange materials, 939 00:52:31,500 --> 00:52:35,959 at various stages we were wearing jumpsuits, all of us. 940 00:52:36,042 --> 00:52:38,709 And so things like stress positions, 941 00:52:38,792 --> 00:52:42,792 and not allowing us to sleep, just stand up all night. 942 00:52:44,209 --> 00:52:45,626 Things like that. 943 00:52:45,709 --> 00:52:50,584 Some of us received much more violence than others, 944 00:52:50,667 --> 00:52:55,250 and that was for reasons that I couldn't understand. 945 00:52:55,334 --> 00:52:58,334 We knew there were another two captives 946 00:52:58,417 --> 00:52:59,918 in the same location. 947 00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,542 You could hear their screams, and they could hear ours. 948 00:53:02,626 --> 00:53:05,292 And eventually we met them. 949 00:53:05,375 --> 00:53:08,042 It was James Foley and John Cantlie. 950 00:53:11,042 --> 00:53:13,167 And they put us into a cell to do a royal rumble. 951 00:53:13,250 --> 00:53:16,709 Basically, get us to fight against each other. 952 00:53:16,792 --> 00:53:19,500 The cell that John and James were in, 953 00:53:19,584 --> 00:53:22,542 because the ceiling was so high at the top it had a latch. 954 00:53:22,626 --> 00:53:27,876 So, they brought us in and then went up to the top, 955 00:53:27,959 --> 00:53:30,626 and then were like giving us instructions about, 956 00:53:30,709 --> 00:53:34,000 and they were watching from above, 957 00:53:34,083 --> 00:53:36,626 and so they had Dave and me in one corner 958 00:53:36,709 --> 00:53:40,292 and John and James in the other and they wanted us to fight, 959 00:53:40,375 --> 00:53:41,459 and, like... 960 00:53:42,876 --> 00:53:45,083 we obviously weren't gonna fight each other, 961 00:53:45,167 --> 00:53:46,792 but you kinda couldn't not fight. 962 00:53:46,876 --> 00:53:49,042 I mean there was potential for punishment. 963 00:53:49,125 --> 00:53:51,334 I remember we sort of went through the motions initially, 964 00:53:51,417 --> 00:53:54,083 realized we couldn't 'cause they were saying if you don't start, 965 00:53:54,167 --> 00:53:58,584 you know, and you have to, we were like skeletons by then. 966 00:53:58,667 --> 00:54:02,542 I think every one of us fainted at some stage or another 967 00:54:02,626 --> 00:54:04,751 just from exhaustion. 968 00:54:04,834 --> 00:54:07,584 So, we weren't exactly hurting each other. 969 00:54:07,667 --> 00:54:09,918 But, they found it highly entertaining. 970 00:54:22,751 --> 00:54:26,667 ( speaking in foreign language ) 971 00:54:40,375 --> 00:54:43,709 Petraeus: Baghdadi has this extraordinary vision. 972 00:54:43,792 --> 00:54:48,709 He clearly has very impressive organizational skills, 973 00:54:48,792 --> 00:54:50,959 however twisted the ideology, 974 00:54:51,042 --> 00:54:53,959 however twisted the interpretation of Islam, 975 00:54:54,042 --> 00:54:56,042 however extreme the actions, 976 00:54:56,125 --> 00:54:59,042 but he does something truly extraordinary. 977 00:54:59,125 --> 00:55:02,542 Man: In 2014 we saw the Declaration of the Caliphate. 978 00:55:02,626 --> 00:55:04,876 It was directed to idealistic people, 979 00:55:04,959 --> 00:55:07,584 who wanted to live in the perfect state, 980 00:55:07,667 --> 00:55:10,083 and who had learnt since their childhood 981 00:55:10,167 --> 00:55:12,792 about this wonderful idea of the caliphate, 982 00:55:12,876 --> 00:55:16,209 which a lot of Muslims very much cherish, 983 00:55:16,292 --> 00:55:17,542 including Muslims who would not have 984 00:55:17,626 --> 00:55:20,876 the slightest sympathy with the likes of ISIS. 985 00:55:20,959 --> 00:55:23,250 It was a bit of a chicken or an egg situation for ISIS. 986 00:55:23,334 --> 00:55:26,459 It was establish the caliphate and then figure out a way 987 00:55:26,542 --> 00:55:28,334 of making it work later on. 988 00:55:28,417 --> 00:55:30,626 Announce it to the world and you would get attention 989 00:55:30,709 --> 00:55:31,918 and people would flock. 990 00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:36,209 ( speaking in foreign language ) 991 00:55:45,667 --> 00:55:47,083 I think it's like grooming, 992 00:55:47,167 --> 00:55:50,292 and even worse than that, because they are promising them, 993 00:55:50,375 --> 00:55:52,626 and to the group, this is not us, 994 00:55:52,709 --> 00:55:54,792 we are just passing the message of god. 995 00:55:55,918 --> 00:55:57,959 This is an order from god. 996 00:55:58,042 --> 00:56:01,083 Here is the Koranic verse telling you that you should go, 997 00:56:01,167 --> 00:56:03,500 you should migrate to the caliphate. 998 00:56:03,584 --> 00:56:06,083 You should leave the land of the Kuffr, which is Britain, 999 00:56:06,167 --> 00:56:07,792 and go to the caliphate. 1000 00:56:07,876 --> 00:56:12,876 Propaganda was very well targeted to individual groups. 1001 00:56:12,959 --> 00:56:16,167 They'd be different videos for Australians, 1002 00:56:16,250 --> 00:56:18,250 for people in the Philippines, 1003 00:56:18,334 --> 00:56:21,500 for people who had specific interests. 1004 00:56:21,584 --> 00:56:24,709 Videos for young girls, videos for young boys. 1005 00:56:24,792 --> 00:56:26,626 Some would be very violent and horrifying, 1006 00:56:26,709 --> 00:56:30,459 some would have nothing, but soft focus pictures 1007 00:56:30,542 --> 00:56:32,792 of the golden corn being reaped 1008 00:56:32,876 --> 00:56:36,417 and the beautiful fish being brought in on the fishing boat. 1009 00:56:36,500 --> 00:56:39,542 El-Badawy: The videos are there to make them actually 1010 00:56:39,626 --> 00:56:40,918 feel some positive emotion. 1011 00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:43,083 So for example, getting them to feel 1012 00:56:43,167 --> 00:56:45,250 that there's a sense of solidarity 1013 00:56:45,334 --> 00:56:49,667 amongst the ranks of ISIS, and that brotherly comradeship. 1014 00:56:49,751 --> 00:56:53,584 And all of this gives the audience an impression 1015 00:56:53,667 --> 00:56:57,500 that this is the non-trivial world. 1016 00:56:57,584 --> 00:57:01,459 That in living with ISIS, you will actually start 1017 00:57:01,542 --> 00:57:03,500 to feel a sense of purpose. 1018 00:57:03,584 --> 00:57:05,667 It is not just about killing people, 1019 00:57:05,751 --> 00:57:07,459 but there's a wider cause 1020 00:57:07,542 --> 00:57:09,751 that you're sacrificing your life for. 1021 00:57:09,834 --> 00:57:14,667 Anderson: That, in a way, was one of ISIS' unique selling points. 1022 00:57:14,751 --> 00:57:17,667 They had as they would put it a country to sell, 1023 00:57:17,751 --> 00:57:20,459 and they were able to present it as a country 1024 00:57:20,542 --> 00:57:21,918 where you might want to live. 1025 00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:23,459 You would look at some of it and think, 1026 00:57:23,542 --> 00:57:25,292 well, I'd like to go and live there. 1027 00:57:25,375 --> 00:57:28,500 If you believed it, you would want to go and live there. 1028 00:57:28,584 --> 00:57:30,417 And so many people, particularly young people, 1029 00:57:30,500 --> 00:57:34,167 went out there on the basis of that dream 1030 00:57:34,250 --> 00:57:37,209 that the propagandists had put together. 1031 00:57:43,500 --> 00:57:45,834 Motka: There was a lot of talk around the fact 1032 00:57:45,918 --> 00:57:47,542 that there was an Islamic State now, 1033 00:57:47,626 --> 00:57:49,626 that we were prisoners of a state, 1034 00:57:49,709 --> 00:57:52,209 therefore, there were rules. 1035 00:57:52,292 --> 00:57:56,334 Henin: I spent a couple of weeks in a cell on my own, 1036 00:57:56,417 --> 00:57:58,459 and then at the end of the year, 1037 00:57:58,542 --> 00:58:03,000 we are 19 men in the same cell. 1038 00:58:03,083 --> 00:58:04,667 Being in a group is hard too. 1039 00:58:04,751 --> 00:58:08,375 I mean you're whatever number of grown men in a tiny room, 1040 00:58:08,459 --> 00:58:12,667 foot-to-toe in terms of how you sleep, 1041 00:58:12,751 --> 00:58:14,000 right next to each other. 1042 00:58:14,083 --> 00:58:15,334 For a couple of months, 1043 00:58:15,417 --> 00:58:18,459 the Beatles were not violent with us. 1044 00:58:18,542 --> 00:58:21,042 It was more like an enterprise, 1045 00:58:21,125 --> 00:58:23,709 so you don't damage the merchandise. 1046 00:58:23,792 --> 00:58:26,042 Some of the proofs of lives were obtained 1047 00:58:26,125 --> 00:58:27,751 in a neighboring room. 1048 00:58:27,834 --> 00:58:31,751 Jihadi John would then be the one directing the filming. 1049 00:58:31,834 --> 00:58:34,125 So he would give us the instructions. 1050 00:58:34,209 --> 00:58:37,167 "Okay, you arrive this side, you say that, 1051 00:58:37,250 --> 00:58:39,042 and then you stand up and leave the frame." 1052 00:58:39,125 --> 00:58:42,167 And... he would stand next to the camera, 1053 00:58:42,250 --> 00:58:45,792 and there would be another Beatle behind the camera... 1054 00:58:46,834 --> 00:58:48,709 just pressing the button. 1055 00:58:53,042 --> 00:58:54,876 News reporter: There have also been fresh clashes 1056 00:58:54,959 --> 00:58:57,459 in the rebel enclave of Aleppo, Syria's second city, 1057 00:58:57,542 --> 00:58:59,918 and once its commercial heart. 1058 00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:02,834 ( tanks firing ) 1059 00:59:02,918 --> 00:59:05,334 El-Badawy: As ISIS begin to lose control of Aleppo, 1060 00:59:05,417 --> 00:59:08,459 Al-Absi, Emwazi, and his fellow Beatles flee 1061 00:59:08,542 --> 00:59:11,709 to the safety of the state's de facto capital, Raqqa. 1062 00:59:13,083 --> 00:59:16,125 Before fleeing, they kill around 300 1063 00:59:16,209 --> 00:59:17,959 of the Syrian prisoners, 1064 00:59:18,042 --> 00:59:19,375 but they keep hold of their precious cargo 1065 00:59:19,459 --> 00:59:20,459 of Western hostages. 1066 00:59:22,250 --> 00:59:24,584 Once they're in Raqqa, Baghdadi appoints Al-Absi 1067 00:59:24,667 --> 00:59:27,584 to oversee the state's media department. 1068 00:59:27,667 --> 00:59:29,334 This position gives Al-Absi and his cell, 1069 00:59:29,417 --> 00:59:31,667 which includes Emwazi, 1070 00:59:31,751 --> 00:59:33,626 ample opportunity to reek havoc 1071 00:59:33,709 --> 00:59:35,751 using the hostages that remain. 1072 00:59:35,834 --> 00:59:40,125 ( speaking in foreign language ) 1073 00:59:48,083 --> 00:59:50,459 Man: I appeal to the people who have Jim 1074 00:59:50,542 --> 00:59:52,375 to give us some information 1075 00:59:52,459 --> 00:59:55,000 in terms of his welfare, his health. 1076 00:59:55,083 --> 00:59:59,834 I tried very hard to remind our government 1077 00:59:59,918 --> 01:00:05,250 that Jim was alive, but we really didn't receive much help. 1078 01:00:05,334 --> 01:00:08,083 We received an email from his captors, 1079 01:00:08,167 --> 01:00:12,000 they asked for proof-of-life questions, 1080 01:00:12,083 --> 01:00:15,834 so they could assure us they had Jim, 1081 01:00:15,918 --> 01:00:18,792 and we were very excited to hear from them. 1082 01:00:18,876 --> 01:00:20,626 I mean of course there was the proofs of life 1083 01:00:20,709 --> 01:00:22,834 where like the one thing that sort of said 1084 01:00:22,918 --> 01:00:26,834 there's obviously something going on. 1085 01:00:26,918 --> 01:00:31,876 I mean, we all were aware of various government positions on this issue. 1086 01:00:31,959 --> 01:00:35,209 Well, we don't negotiate with terrorists or pay ransoms 1087 01:00:35,292 --> 01:00:38,042 or pursue those kinds of activities 1088 01:00:38,125 --> 01:00:40,709 because it just begets more terrorism, 1089 01:00:40,792 --> 01:00:42,542 it encourages more actions. 1090 01:00:42,626 --> 01:00:46,417 But of course, it's a very difficult policy to explain 1091 01:00:46,500 --> 01:00:50,000 to the loved ones of someone who has been kidnapped 1092 01:00:50,083 --> 01:00:52,709 and of course the overall policy objective, 1093 01:00:52,792 --> 01:00:55,417 I think even they can understand why, 1094 01:00:55,500 --> 01:00:58,334 but of course they want an exception in their case. 1095 01:00:58,417 --> 01:01:01,500 We were back and forth on email for about a month 1096 01:01:01,584 --> 01:01:05,250 and then they cut off all communication after that. 1097 01:01:05,334 --> 01:01:09,250 So it was kind of a tease, if you will. 1098 01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:12,626 Motka: Dave and I always believed that 1099 01:01:12,709 --> 01:01:15,417 because we were taken together, there was a good chance 1100 01:01:15,500 --> 01:01:17,918 that we would be negotiated for together. 1101 01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:20,334 I genuinely believed that there was an option 1102 01:01:20,417 --> 01:01:23,125 and then the moment that you realized... 1103 01:01:25,167 --> 01:01:28,000 that I realized, through that sort of 1104 01:01:28,083 --> 01:01:30,667 final proof-of-life process... 1105 01:01:31,834 --> 01:01:33,584 that this was only for me. 1106 01:01:35,959 --> 01:01:41,709 It was probably one of the most bittersweet... 1107 01:01:43,042 --> 01:01:47,751 um... emotions I think I've ever had. 1108 01:01:47,834 --> 01:01:50,209 When they eventually came to the room and said, 1109 01:01:50,292 --> 01:01:54,459 "Okay, the four French here, come and we were blindfold, 1110 01:01:54,542 --> 01:01:57,459 handcuffs, and we take you out." 1111 01:01:57,542 --> 01:02:02,250 It was like, I just had time to say well goodbye everybody. 1112 01:02:02,334 --> 01:02:06,417 We had no time for big hugs or whatever. 1113 01:02:06,500 --> 01:02:09,375 For some reason the day that I was picked up, 1114 01:02:09,459 --> 01:02:12,125 the Beatles were super aggressive. 1115 01:02:12,209 --> 01:02:14,792 They pulled me into the center, then they tried to, 1116 01:02:14,876 --> 01:02:18,042 they gave me a beating, but then they took it out 1117 01:02:18,125 --> 01:02:20,876 on everyone around as well. 1118 01:02:20,959 --> 01:02:24,334 And just before they put the blanket over my head, 1119 01:02:24,417 --> 01:02:28,876 they made me go back to the door, and sort of say... 1120 01:02:28,959 --> 01:02:33,500 "and say goodbye to your friends," or something like that. 1121 01:02:33,584 --> 01:02:36,667 Henin: Normally when you are taken hostage, 1122 01:02:36,751 --> 01:02:39,459 once you are released you are free. 1123 01:02:39,542 --> 01:02:43,375 But in our case, when were released, 1124 01:02:43,459 --> 01:02:46,417 we left 15 pals behind us. 1125 01:02:46,500 --> 01:02:51,500 You know these guys aren't just people or friends, 1126 01:02:51,584 --> 01:02:54,000 they're brothers. 1127 01:02:54,083 --> 01:02:56,250 And I think I spent more time sleeping next to David 1128 01:02:56,334 --> 01:03:00,083 than any girl at that point in my life. 1129 01:03:00,167 --> 01:03:04,167 ( helicopter blades whirling ) 1130 01:03:04,250 --> 01:03:07,459 ( applauding ) 1131 01:03:07,542 --> 01:03:11,042 Foley: We were very hopeful when the Spanish hostages 1132 01:03:11,125 --> 01:03:13,042 were released in February. 1133 01:03:13,125 --> 01:03:16,000 Shortly thereafter, the French were released, 1134 01:03:16,083 --> 01:03:18,417 and so we were incredibly hopeful. 1135 01:03:18,500 --> 01:03:21,209 They told us that Jim was alive and well, 1136 01:03:21,292 --> 01:03:24,751 and strong, and were very encouraging. 1137 01:03:24,834 --> 01:03:31,083 And I actually returned to France in July of 2014, 1138 01:03:31,167 --> 01:03:34,209 hoping to get some help from France. 1139 01:03:34,292 --> 01:03:35,709 It was while I was in Paris 1140 01:03:35,792 --> 01:03:39,000 that we received the threatening email. 1141 01:03:39,083 --> 01:03:40,751 Threatening to kill Jim. 1142 01:03:40,834 --> 01:03:43,500 I was hopeful they were back in touch, 1143 01:03:43,584 --> 01:03:46,459 but again I was very naive. 1144 01:03:46,542 --> 01:03:49,667 I don't know if they ever desired to negotiate. 1145 01:03:49,751 --> 01:03:51,167 It's hard to know... 1146 01:03:52,417 --> 01:03:54,459 but certainly not at that hour... 1147 01:03:54,542 --> 01:03:55,918 they weren't. 1148 01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:57,500 I think they had come to realize 1149 01:03:57,584 --> 01:04:01,417 that Jim was worth more as propaganda. 1150 01:04:10,709 --> 01:04:12,792 I call on my friends, family and loved ones 1151 01:04:12,876 --> 01:04:16,125 to rise up against my real killers, the U.S. government. 1152 01:04:22,542 --> 01:04:25,000 I was totally unaware of it 1153 01:04:25,083 --> 01:04:28,459 until an AP reporter 1154 01:04:28,542 --> 01:04:30,542 called me sobbing... 1155 01:04:32,209 --> 01:04:36,542 and I couldn't even understand what she was crying about, 1156 01:04:36,626 --> 01:04:39,709 and she told me to look on Twitter. 1157 01:04:41,542 --> 01:04:44,459 So that's when I saw the image 1158 01:04:44,542 --> 01:04:46,209 and... 1159 01:04:47,626 --> 01:04:49,459 I knew it was Jim... 1160 01:04:49,542 --> 01:04:52,459 and... that's how I found out. 1161 01:04:52,542 --> 01:04:55,375 I didn't know if it was authentic, 1162 01:04:55,459 --> 01:04:59,584 and so I reached out to our FBI agent, 1163 01:04:59,667 --> 01:05:02,626 but really didn't hear back from anybody. 1164 01:05:04,209 --> 01:05:06,667 So, I didn't know if it was true 1165 01:05:06,751 --> 01:05:12,167 until the president announced it that evening on TV. 1166 01:05:15,626 --> 01:05:19,125 So it was... you know... 1167 01:05:20,167 --> 01:05:21,709 it was, um... 1168 01:05:23,584 --> 01:05:24,626 it was awful. 1169 01:05:25,709 --> 01:05:27,959 It was really very difficult. 1170 01:05:31,876 --> 01:05:35,417 The last time I saw James and David 1171 01:05:35,500 --> 01:05:39,209 and a lot of the others was when the videos came out. 1172 01:05:40,667 --> 01:05:44,959 And then the message to America, it was, it said... 1173 01:05:45,042 --> 01:05:48,751 I don't like to use their words. 1174 01:05:48,834 --> 01:05:52,459 I like to, uh, be, uh... 1175 01:05:52,542 --> 01:05:55,334 precise and factual. 1176 01:05:55,417 --> 01:05:58,500 That was a... 1177 01:05:58,584 --> 01:06:00,292 filmed murder. 1178 01:06:00,375 --> 01:06:01,459 That's it. 1179 01:06:06,334 --> 01:06:07,834 Of an innocent journalist. 1180 01:06:11,584 --> 01:06:12,792 Of a hostage. 1181 01:06:16,083 --> 01:06:17,250 But, um... 1182 01:06:20,292 --> 01:06:21,334 Yeah. 1183 01:06:25,542 --> 01:06:26,500 I would say... 1184 01:06:28,500 --> 01:06:29,876 we were told... 1185 01:06:32,667 --> 01:06:35,209 and then once the first one came out, 1186 01:06:35,292 --> 01:06:37,459 sort of... 1187 01:06:37,542 --> 01:06:40,042 there was the threat of the second, the next. 1188 01:06:52,626 --> 01:06:55,709 So then after that you know, it's just... 1189 01:06:57,375 --> 01:06:58,417 will it, won't it, 1190 01:06:58,500 --> 01:07:00,083 and then the second... 1191 01:07:02,792 --> 01:07:04,500 and, yeah, it was just... 1192 01:07:07,792 --> 01:07:12,709 Henin: David was a very complex and interesting character. 1193 01:07:12,792 --> 01:07:14,542 Very smart. 1194 01:07:16,375 --> 01:07:19,542 Very good at understanding people. 1195 01:07:20,751 --> 01:07:22,375 Very supportive, also. 1196 01:07:22,459 --> 01:07:25,834 Motka: Generally, we were all very close as a group, 1197 01:07:25,918 --> 01:07:29,792 but of course everyone has maybe one individual 1198 01:07:29,876 --> 01:07:31,667 that they would turn to... 1199 01:07:34,250 --> 01:07:36,417 and for me that was Dave. 1200 01:07:37,918 --> 01:07:40,626 Um... you know he, he... 1201 01:07:45,667 --> 01:07:47,209 I hope I was of... 1202 01:07:50,250 --> 01:07:51,751 of help to him. 1203 01:07:51,834 --> 01:07:52,959 Um... 1204 01:07:54,209 --> 01:07:58,209 But, I know, I think I was... 1205 01:07:58,292 --> 01:07:59,667 able to sort of 1206 01:07:59,751 --> 01:08:02,918 give what I could, and I think everyone did the same. 1207 01:08:10,834 --> 01:08:13,626 ( sirens whirling ) 1208 01:08:18,500 --> 01:08:21,167 Haines: I had been at my boyfriend's house that night, 1209 01:08:21,250 --> 01:08:23,334 and he lives in the middle of nowhere, 1210 01:08:23,417 --> 01:08:25,542 next thing I know there's a knock at the door 1211 01:08:25,626 --> 01:08:28,375 and all I can remember is seeing the blue flashing lights 1212 01:08:28,459 --> 01:08:29,792 reflected in the window. 1213 01:08:29,876 --> 01:08:31,000 I still didn't click on. 1214 01:08:31,083 --> 01:08:32,667 I thought I had done something wrong. 1215 01:08:32,751 --> 01:08:34,584 I was terrified, thinking what am I going to tell my mum 1216 01:08:34,667 --> 01:08:36,459 when I'm in the back of a police car. 1217 01:08:36,542 --> 01:08:39,667 And then I heard her voice, and my boyfriend said, 1218 01:08:39,751 --> 01:08:40,876 "Is it her dad?" 1219 01:08:40,959 --> 01:08:42,167 My mum said yeah. 1220 01:08:43,375 --> 01:08:45,250 And I remember deliberately taking ages 1221 01:08:45,334 --> 01:08:46,667 to come out of the room 1222 01:08:46,751 --> 01:08:48,000 'cause I knew what was going to come, 1223 01:08:48,083 --> 01:08:49,584 and I just didn't want to hear it, 1224 01:08:49,667 --> 01:08:53,500 and my mum had said to me a video had been released. 1225 01:08:53,584 --> 01:08:55,000 "It's of your dad." 1226 01:08:55,083 --> 01:08:58,375 And that was the moment that I found out 1227 01:08:58,459 --> 01:09:01,125 that my dad certainly wouldn't be coming home. 1228 01:09:10,250 --> 01:09:12,167 My name is David Cawthorne Haines. 1229 01:09:21,083 --> 01:09:22,876 Haines: It took me months to be able to cry. 1230 01:09:22,959 --> 01:09:25,751 I didn't feel any kind of sadness. 1231 01:09:25,834 --> 01:09:27,292 It was anger... 1232 01:09:28,834 --> 01:09:30,083 and then there was also hope. 1233 01:09:30,167 --> 01:09:32,584 Hope that the others would get out, 1234 01:09:32,667 --> 01:09:35,250 such as Alan Henning, Peter Kassig. 1235 01:09:35,334 --> 01:09:38,125 We all prayed and hoped that they would get out. 1236 01:09:38,209 --> 01:09:41,584 Walton: So there was public pressure to name this individual, 1237 01:09:41,667 --> 01:09:44,417 but we knew that if we were to name Emwazi, 1238 01:09:44,500 --> 01:09:48,500 there was a high risk that he would conduct more murders 1239 01:09:48,584 --> 01:09:50,626 and more beheadings of hostages. 1240 01:09:50,709 --> 01:09:52,375 In James Foley's video, 1241 01:09:52,459 --> 01:09:54,709 obviously Steven Sotloff was featured at the end. 1242 01:09:54,792 --> 01:09:57,250 Emwazi: The life of this American citizen, Obama, 1243 01:09:57,334 --> 01:09:59,209 depends on your next decision. 1244 01:09:59,292 --> 01:10:00,500 And then the next video, it's my dad, 1245 01:10:00,584 --> 01:10:02,417 and the one after it was Alan. 1246 01:10:02,500 --> 01:10:04,250 Emwazi: If you, Cameron, persist 1247 01:10:04,334 --> 01:10:05,667 in fighting the Islamic State, 1248 01:10:05,751 --> 01:10:07,709 then you, like your master Obama, 1249 01:10:07,792 --> 01:10:10,876 will have the blood of your people on your hands. 1250 01:10:10,959 --> 01:10:15,292 At the time that Jihadi John had killed his third hostage, 1251 01:10:15,375 --> 01:10:17,542 all you're able to see then, is that this is the third, 1252 01:10:17,626 --> 01:10:20,125 and how many more of these are there going to be? 1253 01:10:20,209 --> 01:10:23,083 What terrorists want above all is a reaction, 1254 01:10:23,167 --> 01:10:27,959 and ISIS, and in particular Jihadi John and his mates, 1255 01:10:28,042 --> 01:10:30,876 spent the summer of 2014 seeking a reaction. 1256 01:10:30,959 --> 01:10:34,292 You had this sequence of increasingly grisly videos. 1257 01:10:34,375 --> 01:10:37,542 They were very, very skillful propaganda. 1258 01:10:37,626 --> 01:10:42,667 They recreated the medieval barbarity of the 7th century 1259 01:10:42,751 --> 01:10:44,417 with these great bladed weapons, 1260 01:10:44,500 --> 01:10:47,417 the beheadings, it was all on the sands of the desert 1261 01:10:47,500 --> 01:10:50,459 and the world's media I am afraid fell for it. 1262 01:10:50,542 --> 01:10:52,959 And of course, with the level of interest 1263 01:10:53,042 --> 01:10:54,417 and the level of coverage, 1264 01:10:54,500 --> 01:10:56,959 the level of fear went up as well. 1265 01:10:57,042 --> 01:10:59,000 Images were released showing the beheading 1266 01:10:59,083 --> 01:11:01,000 of American journalist James Foley. 1267 01:11:01,083 --> 01:11:03,125 Today the entire world is appalled. 1268 01:11:03,209 --> 01:11:04,667 It is an act of murder. 1269 01:11:04,751 --> 01:11:07,209 The video is too graphic for us to show. 1270 01:11:07,292 --> 01:11:11,542 And it also speaks to how barbaric 1271 01:11:11,626 --> 01:11:12,876 and gruesome this can all be. 1272 01:11:12,959 --> 01:11:15,000 Reporter: All eyes are on his eyes. 1273 01:11:15,083 --> 01:11:17,876 Again speaking in English with a British accent. 1274 01:11:18,876 --> 01:11:22,042 I recognized John, for sure. 1275 01:11:24,042 --> 01:11:25,709 The John I met there, 1276 01:11:25,792 --> 01:11:27,626 ( mumbles ) 1277 01:11:27,709 --> 01:11:30,459 I recognized his voice. 1278 01:11:30,542 --> 01:11:34,459 I recognize his style. 1279 01:11:34,542 --> 01:11:36,292 People across this country 1280 01:11:36,375 --> 01:11:38,584 would have been sickened by the fact 1281 01:11:38,667 --> 01:11:41,584 that it could have been a British citizen, 1282 01:11:41,667 --> 01:11:44,626 a British citizen who could have carried out 1283 01:11:44,709 --> 01:11:47,042 this unspeakable act. 1284 01:11:47,125 --> 01:11:48,542 Somebody must have decided 1285 01:11:48,626 --> 01:11:51,709 that allowing Emwazi who was relatively junior, 1286 01:11:51,792 --> 01:11:56,292 to be filmed executing hostages 1287 01:11:56,375 --> 01:11:59,375 was going to be a good and powerful idea. 1288 01:11:59,459 --> 01:12:02,792 And if you look at Emwazi as an adversary, 1289 01:12:02,876 --> 01:12:07,542 he certainly wasn't a glorious battlefield commander, 1290 01:12:07,626 --> 01:12:09,209 he wasn't that. 1291 01:12:09,292 --> 01:12:14,417 He wasn't high in the ISIS hierarchy such as it was, 1292 01:12:14,500 --> 01:12:16,167 but he was a powerful 1293 01:12:16,250 --> 01:12:20,375 and credible adversary nonetheless. 1294 01:12:20,459 --> 01:12:21,500 Why? 1295 01:12:22,751 --> 01:12:24,417 He was from us. 1296 01:12:24,500 --> 01:12:26,667 He was of us. 1297 01:12:26,751 --> 01:12:29,626 And so, he knew us instinctively. 1298 01:12:34,167 --> 01:12:36,500 Emwazi: The blood of David Haines is on your hands Cameron. 1299 01:12:36,584 --> 01:12:39,083 Alan Henning will also be slaughtered, 1300 01:12:39,167 --> 01:12:42,083 but his blood is on the hand of the British parliament. 1301 01:12:48,834 --> 01:12:51,459 With each video there was a sense 1302 01:12:51,542 --> 01:12:54,209 of this is getting slightly out of control. 1303 01:12:54,292 --> 01:12:57,792 How is it that we're losing the power dynamic here? 1304 01:12:57,876 --> 01:13:01,459 Verkaik: This is Emwazi telling the world about not just 1305 01:13:01,542 --> 01:13:05,667 what the Islamic State think of America and Britain, 1306 01:13:05,751 --> 01:13:07,876 this is Mohammed Emwazi telling the world 1307 01:13:07,959 --> 01:13:11,167 what he thinks about Britain and America. 1308 01:13:11,250 --> 01:13:13,876 This is his very own personal message, 1309 01:13:13,959 --> 01:13:19,167 and the venomous tone and the snarling attacks 1310 01:13:19,250 --> 01:13:24,626 on Obama and Cameron, I think, are very much Mohammed Emwazi. 1311 01:13:24,709 --> 01:13:26,584 ( Mohammed Emwazi speaking ) 1312 01:13:34,375 --> 01:13:35,918 Emwazi: I'm back, Obama, 1313 01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:37,792 and I'm back because of your arrogant foreign policy 1314 01:13:37,876 --> 01:13:40,125 towards the Islamic State. 1315 01:13:40,209 --> 01:13:43,250 And politicians will always want to try and present 1316 01:13:43,334 --> 01:13:45,709 the situation as one of being in control, 1317 01:13:45,792 --> 01:13:47,834 but we clearly weren't in control. 1318 01:13:47,918 --> 01:13:50,834 Man: I think those awful images cut right through 1319 01:13:50,918 --> 01:13:53,584 to the American public in the relative sanctuary 1320 01:13:53,667 --> 01:13:56,125 we felt emotionally before 9/11, 1321 01:13:56,209 --> 01:13:57,834 and then we had 9/11 and it was like, 1322 01:13:57,918 --> 01:14:02,250 oh, this was such a shock, and then the war in Afghanistan, 1323 01:14:02,334 --> 01:14:04,292 and then Iraq. 1324 01:14:04,375 --> 01:14:05,876 So you have a war-weary American public, 1325 01:14:05,959 --> 01:14:09,292 and then this horrific scene of an American man murdered 1326 01:14:09,375 --> 01:14:12,459 for the world to see, so I think it really had America 1327 01:14:12,542 --> 01:14:15,500 torn about what to go do. 1328 01:14:15,584 --> 01:14:20,417 If you threaten America, you will find no safe haven. 1329 01:14:20,500 --> 01:14:21,918 The next ISIS video comes out, 1330 01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:23,667 the next ISIS beheading comes out. 1331 01:14:23,751 --> 01:14:25,125 Jihadi John's on TV again. 1332 01:14:25,209 --> 01:14:27,542 "Bakr Al Baghdadi said this." 1333 01:14:27,626 --> 01:14:28,876 You know all these... 1334 01:14:28,959 --> 01:14:31,584 So there was just this wave of information. 1335 01:14:31,667 --> 01:14:33,042 It seemed like we were losing. 1336 01:14:33,125 --> 01:14:36,334 Now I tell you we never were losing in my mind, 1337 01:14:36,417 --> 01:14:38,417 but it sure did seem that way at a few points. 1338 01:14:38,500 --> 01:14:40,250 Civil society will be asking its government, 1339 01:14:40,334 --> 01:14:43,792 well why is this happening and why can't you stop it, 1340 01:14:43,876 --> 01:14:45,667 and what does it mean for our relationships 1341 01:14:45,751 --> 01:14:48,083 with our fellow citizens of different faiths. 1342 01:14:48,167 --> 01:14:50,334 So whatever the substance of these issues, 1343 01:14:50,417 --> 01:14:53,000 this is just one man doing brutal things 1344 01:14:53,083 --> 01:14:54,375 in another part of the world. 1345 01:14:54,459 --> 01:14:58,083 The effect on politics and society is profound. 1346 01:14:58,167 --> 01:15:00,459 Hannigan: The prime minister made it very clear 1347 01:15:00,542 --> 01:15:03,459 that we had a responsibility to these British citizens. 1348 01:15:03,542 --> 01:15:05,709 He took it as a high priority 1349 01:15:05,792 --> 01:15:07,709 and instructed us to take it as a high priority. 1350 01:15:12,209 --> 01:15:18,334 For us at GCHQ, this was a largely desk screen-based campaign. 1351 01:15:18,417 --> 01:15:21,125 In Afghanistan we could climb up towers 1352 01:15:21,209 --> 01:15:23,083 and do all the things we need to do on the ground. 1353 01:15:23,167 --> 01:15:24,918 None of that was possible in Raqqa. 1354 01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:27,792 If you looked at a picture of Raqqa, 1355 01:15:27,876 --> 01:15:30,751 you would see these little V-Sat terminals, 1356 01:15:30,834 --> 01:15:32,876 so these little satellite dishes all over the roofs. 1357 01:15:32,959 --> 01:15:36,709 And they were connecting direct to the internet in practice, 1358 01:15:36,792 --> 01:15:39,334 and that's the way that people were communicating. 1359 01:15:39,417 --> 01:15:44,000 They were not using telephone company, GSM networks, because they didn't trust them. 1360 01:15:44,083 --> 01:15:46,334 Warren: Mohammed Emwazi, look, he'd been reading the newspaper 1361 01:15:46,417 --> 01:15:47,959 and watching TV just like the rest of us. 1362 01:15:48,042 --> 01:15:51,459 He knows that we're coming after him. 1363 01:15:51,542 --> 01:15:55,792 He went to great lengths to prevent being captured. 1364 01:15:57,918 --> 01:15:59,125 He was an interesting case 1365 01:15:59,209 --> 01:16:02,083 because he had studied computer science 1366 01:16:02,167 --> 01:16:04,334 and he had been in the IT business. 1367 01:16:04,417 --> 01:16:06,042 He had clearly taught himself a lot. 1368 01:16:06,125 --> 01:16:07,959 He understood, therefore, the best way 1369 01:16:08,042 --> 01:16:11,417 to avoid surveillance and was good at it. 1370 01:16:12,959 --> 01:16:16,042 He communicated very rarely, and when he did, 1371 01:16:16,125 --> 01:16:17,959 mostly around the hostages, 1372 01:16:18,042 --> 01:16:22,834 he used a whole series of commercially available products 1373 01:16:22,918 --> 01:16:27,334 to obscure his identity, including very strong encryption, 1374 01:16:27,417 --> 01:16:29,709 and including virtual private networks. 1375 01:16:29,792 --> 01:16:32,334 Any one of those products would be very, very difficult 1376 01:16:32,417 --> 01:16:33,959 for an agency to tackle. 1377 01:16:34,042 --> 01:16:36,542 What he was doing was layering them on top of each other. 1378 01:16:36,626 --> 01:16:40,834 Any agency's ambition, if they can find the machine 1379 01:16:40,918 --> 01:16:43,918 that a terrorist is using, is to put something on to it 1380 01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:46,542 which will stay there and communicate back 1381 01:16:46,626 --> 01:16:48,209 what that person is doing. 1382 01:16:48,292 --> 01:16:52,250 What Emwazi was able to do was to ensure 1383 01:16:52,334 --> 01:16:54,334 that every time he switched off his machine 1384 01:16:54,417 --> 01:16:57,500 it was wiped of anything and everything, 1385 01:16:57,584 --> 01:16:59,792 and that made it extremely difficult 1386 01:16:59,876 --> 01:17:02,459 and very, very time consuming to do anything really 1387 01:17:02,542 --> 01:17:04,459 with his communications. 1388 01:17:04,542 --> 01:17:06,459 It's never straightforward 1389 01:17:06,542 --> 01:17:09,375 and it can take a very, very long time 1390 01:17:09,459 --> 01:17:12,292 and in this case, of course, it did take a long time. 1391 01:17:15,918 --> 01:17:20,209 Obama, you have started your aerial bombardment in Sham, 1392 01:17:20,292 --> 01:17:22,167 which keeps on striking our people. 1393 01:17:22,250 --> 01:17:23,876 So it's only right we continue 1394 01:17:23,959 --> 01:17:26,209 to strike the necks of your people. 1395 01:17:31,167 --> 01:17:32,834 Warren: Every single time he would do something, 1396 01:17:32,918 --> 01:17:35,709 we would see a significant spike in social media activity 1397 01:17:35,792 --> 01:17:38,083 surrounding ISIS. 1398 01:17:38,167 --> 01:17:39,626 We would see a significant spike 1399 01:17:39,709 --> 01:17:42,167 in recruiting success for ISIS. 1400 01:17:42,250 --> 01:17:43,834 Know that you can't fight any of those things 1401 01:17:43,918 --> 01:17:45,584 with bombs and bullets. 1402 01:17:45,667 --> 01:17:48,042 Those types of things had to be fought with information. 1403 01:17:48,125 --> 01:17:50,000 And this was my responsibility, 1404 01:17:51,375 --> 01:17:54,375 to try to counter his atrocities. 1405 01:17:54,459 --> 01:17:59,834 You have here an ordinary young British man 1406 01:17:59,918 --> 01:18:03,417 who left London and went into Syria. 1407 01:18:06,959 --> 01:18:09,500 Who is now appearing on the TV, 1408 01:18:09,584 --> 01:18:12,417 slaughtering people's life. 1409 01:18:12,500 --> 01:18:16,292 Obviously, this had a huge impact on many young Muslims, 1410 01:18:16,375 --> 01:18:20,000 so that, "Wow, I am sitting here in London," 1411 01:18:20,083 --> 01:18:21,375 or "I'm sitting here in Birmingham, 1412 01:18:21,459 --> 01:18:22,918 I am sitting here in Manchester," 1413 01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:26,042 and that he is out there doing the fight. 1414 01:18:26,125 --> 01:18:28,500 Not only he is doing it, but doing it in a way 1415 01:18:28,584 --> 01:18:32,709 that is very much a Hollywood way of dramatizing things. 1416 01:18:32,792 --> 01:18:35,209 Jesse Morton: That attracted the concern of non-Muslims 1417 01:18:35,292 --> 01:18:37,959 that are also looking for a reason to denounce Islam. 1418 01:18:38,042 --> 01:18:40,417 If anybody wants to point to Islam as a religion 1419 01:18:40,500 --> 01:18:42,834 that breeds barbarity, it's Jihadi John. 1420 01:18:42,918 --> 01:18:46,667 It's a complete perfect example, as I was back in the day. 1421 01:18:46,751 --> 01:18:49,209 But this was an exorbitant level of violence. 1422 01:18:49,292 --> 01:18:52,167 This was a level of violence unseen before. 1423 01:18:52,250 --> 01:18:54,918 Mamadou Bocum: What Jihadi John did, in my opinion, 1424 01:18:55,000 --> 01:18:58,542 for the first time helped ordinary Muslims 1425 01:18:58,626 --> 01:19:01,709 to say, "Wow there is something that is not right." 1426 01:19:01,792 --> 01:19:04,417 I think these things always escalate, 1427 01:19:04,500 --> 01:19:07,417 so they started very brutal anyway, frankly, 1428 01:19:07,500 --> 01:19:09,250 the first execution video, 1429 01:19:09,334 --> 01:19:12,000 although it stopped short of showing the actual beheading, 1430 01:19:12,083 --> 01:19:14,292 was horrific in its own way. 1431 01:19:14,375 --> 01:19:17,792 But as time went on, for whatever reason, 1432 01:19:17,876 --> 01:19:21,459 they must have decided to take that self-censorship away 1433 01:19:21,542 --> 01:19:22,709 and just push it all out. 1434 01:19:22,792 --> 01:19:24,375 Clearly it did escalate up, 1435 01:19:24,459 --> 01:19:26,542 and the killing of the Jordanian pilot by fire 1436 01:19:26,626 --> 01:19:29,083 was particularly gruesome. 1437 01:19:29,167 --> 01:19:31,709 The turning point really was when they burned the pilot. 1438 01:19:31,792 --> 01:19:34,334 The prophet Mohammed, peace be upon him, 1439 01:19:34,417 --> 01:19:36,959 famously taught that only the lord of fire 1440 01:19:37,042 --> 01:19:38,626 can punish with fire. 1441 01:19:38,709 --> 01:19:41,125 El-Badawy: The burning of anything in Islam 1442 01:19:41,209 --> 01:19:43,959 that is a living being was completely forbidden, 1443 01:19:44,042 --> 01:19:46,751 and most Muslims would know that basic principal. 1444 01:19:46,834 --> 01:19:50,000 It was shot in a style that was pioneered by Emwazi, 1445 01:19:50,083 --> 01:19:52,000 and it's actually believed he was there 1446 01:19:52,083 --> 01:19:53,375 while it was being filmed. 1447 01:19:58,626 --> 01:20:00,751 And so this was a complete eye opening moment 1448 01:20:00,834 --> 01:20:03,584 where if anybody ever had an ounce of sympathy 1449 01:20:03,667 --> 01:20:05,876 that was Muslim for this group, 1450 01:20:05,959 --> 01:20:08,542 it was impossible to still continue 1451 01:20:08,626 --> 01:20:11,042 to believe that this group represented Islam. 1452 01:20:11,125 --> 01:20:12,667 ( speaking in foreign language ) 1453 01:20:12,751 --> 01:20:17,000 Translator: ...a criminal gang that has no relation 1454 01:20:17,083 --> 01:20:18,792 to our noble religion. 1455 01:20:18,876 --> 01:20:20,500 El-Badawy: The video of the pilot 1456 01:20:20,584 --> 01:20:22,500 illustrated the hubris of the group, 1457 01:20:22,584 --> 01:20:25,000 and it ultimately undermined the effectiveness 1458 01:20:25,083 --> 01:20:26,667 of the ISIS propaganda machine. 1459 01:20:26,751 --> 01:20:29,918 We will redouble the vigilance, 1460 01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:34,834 and determination on the part of a global coalition 1461 01:20:34,918 --> 01:20:39,209 to make sure that they are degraded and ultimately defeated. 1462 01:20:39,292 --> 01:20:43,834 By being able to engage in something so unthinkable 1463 01:20:43,918 --> 01:20:45,334 you attracted worldwide media, 1464 01:20:45,417 --> 01:20:46,834 you were in the media stream every day, 1465 01:20:46,918 --> 01:20:48,667 you were the complete concentration 1466 01:20:48,751 --> 01:20:51,083 of the entire international community, 1467 01:20:51,167 --> 01:20:53,375 you also made it much easier for people 1468 01:20:53,459 --> 01:20:56,417 to accept the fact that the state you claim to be defending 1469 01:20:56,500 --> 01:20:58,459 should be dismantled and should be bombed from above 1470 01:20:58,542 --> 01:21:00,834 and should incorporate a coalition against you. 1471 01:21:00,918 --> 01:21:02,375 So as a former propagandist, 1472 01:21:02,459 --> 01:21:04,834 I would say it was completely counterproductive. 1473 01:21:18,626 --> 01:21:20,167 Wise: What did Mohammed Emwazi mean 1474 01:21:20,250 --> 01:21:22,083 to those who were fighting the fight 1475 01:21:22,167 --> 01:21:24,709 against the Islamic State. 1476 01:21:24,792 --> 01:21:29,125 This hunt for Jihadi John was personal 1477 01:21:29,209 --> 01:21:32,250 and his nationality mattered not one wit. 1478 01:21:32,334 --> 01:21:34,626 For us, this was as personal 1479 01:21:34,709 --> 01:21:37,709 as if he'd been an American citizen. 1480 01:21:37,792 --> 01:21:43,667 What we needed to do was find, fix and finish Emwazi. 1481 01:21:43,751 --> 01:21:47,792 A very, very important target, and ultimately, of course, 1482 01:21:47,876 --> 01:21:50,918 as they say in the manhunt business, 1483 01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:52,584 ended up on the X. 1484 01:21:52,667 --> 01:21:56,125 Very broadly, there are three phases. 1485 01:21:56,209 --> 01:21:59,918 The first is just gathering intelligence about this person, 1486 01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:03,000 based on that, there is then a phase 1487 01:22:03,083 --> 01:22:05,334 in which you hope to build up a pattern of life. 1488 01:22:05,417 --> 01:22:08,667 You need a certain regularity to understand their behavior, 1489 01:22:08,751 --> 01:22:11,292 where they are going to be on a particular day. 1490 01:22:11,375 --> 01:22:12,959 You also need to make decisions 1491 01:22:13,042 --> 01:22:15,000 about the deployment of aerial assets 1492 01:22:15,083 --> 01:22:18,834 'cause so much of this is about reconnaissance from above. 1493 01:22:22,792 --> 01:22:24,292 Warren: We start to realize, 1494 01:22:24,375 --> 01:22:26,417 we think we know exactly where he is. 1495 01:22:26,500 --> 01:22:29,584 So have a drone take a look at that spot. 1496 01:22:31,334 --> 01:22:33,792 ( drones humming ) 1497 01:22:35,584 --> 01:22:37,292 We'd been very clear that... 1498 01:22:37,375 --> 01:22:39,834 we'd intended to minimize civilian casualties 1499 01:22:39,918 --> 01:22:41,918 as we prosecuted this fight against ISIS. 1500 01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:44,584 Jihadi John was able to read between the lines 1501 01:22:44,667 --> 01:22:46,876 and he understood that if he surrounded himself 1502 01:22:46,959 --> 01:22:49,250 with civilians, with non-combatants, 1503 01:22:49,334 --> 01:22:51,918 that we would be very reticent to try to strike at him. 1504 01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:54,876 Wise: And this boy knew if he had any hope for survival 1505 01:22:54,959 --> 01:22:59,042 he had to blend in to the citizens of Raqqa. 1506 01:22:59,125 --> 01:23:04,375 He had to look from a distance just like them. 1507 01:23:04,459 --> 01:23:07,918 It's no longer looking for a needle in a haystack, 1508 01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:11,500 this is like looking for a needle in a stack of needles. 1509 01:23:11,584 --> 01:23:15,125 Hannigan: You have to remember that these terrorists 1510 01:23:15,209 --> 01:23:18,417 are leading lives alongside their terrorist operations. 1511 01:23:18,500 --> 01:23:20,584 Where we could see what they were doing, 1512 01:23:20,667 --> 01:23:23,500 they were doing very much what young men 1513 01:23:23,584 --> 01:23:25,500 of their generation would do so, 1514 01:23:25,584 --> 01:23:29,500 so be looking at football and porn and films, 1515 01:23:29,584 --> 01:23:32,375 but in amongst that was attack planning 1516 01:23:32,459 --> 01:23:36,375 and violent extremist material and, of course, 1517 01:23:36,459 --> 01:23:38,042 fueling their own impact, 1518 01:23:38,125 --> 01:23:40,500 seeing their own kind of celebrity being created, 1519 01:23:40,584 --> 01:23:43,042 that must have been intoxicating. 1520 01:23:43,125 --> 01:23:47,000 Warren: So the net slowly, slowly, slowly begins to tighten. 1521 01:23:47,083 --> 01:23:48,584 Finally, yesterday he was here 1522 01:23:48,667 --> 01:23:51,417 and now we have good reason to believe that tomorrow 1523 01:23:51,500 --> 01:23:53,834 he's gonna be there, and that's the tipping point. 1524 01:23:53,918 --> 01:23:57,876 Once we start talking about where do we think he's gonna be 1525 01:23:57,959 --> 01:24:00,709 that in my mind is when I know, okay, 1526 01:24:00,792 --> 01:24:02,042 we're locked in on him now. 1527 01:24:02,125 --> 01:24:03,667 I think where you have any target, 1528 01:24:03,751 --> 01:24:07,334 who is very good at communication security 1529 01:24:07,417 --> 01:24:09,876 they are almost always made vulnerable by others 1530 01:24:09,959 --> 01:24:12,918 that they communicate with, so those around them. 1531 01:24:15,500 --> 01:24:16,709 Verkaik: Throughout his life, 1532 01:24:16,792 --> 01:24:20,042 Mohammed Emwazi had wanted a family, 1533 01:24:20,125 --> 01:24:23,292 he pursued two engagements, one woman in London, 1534 01:24:23,375 --> 01:24:26,042 one in Kuwait, it was the one desire, 1535 01:24:26,125 --> 01:24:28,542 which he continued to pursue in Syria. 1536 01:24:28,626 --> 01:24:31,709 It turned out to be his greatest weakness. 1537 01:24:31,792 --> 01:24:33,250 You know his family was a little bit 1538 01:24:33,334 --> 01:24:34,751 of a vulnerability right? 1539 01:24:34,834 --> 01:24:37,000 He had his, I think, ISIS issued wife that he got 1540 01:24:37,083 --> 01:24:38,500 when he was in Syria. 1541 01:24:38,584 --> 01:24:40,584 And he knew that he was a target, 1542 01:24:40,667 --> 01:24:42,042 and he'd taken appropriate action, 1543 01:24:42,125 --> 01:24:43,542 but the one thing he couldn't do, 1544 01:24:43,626 --> 01:24:44,918 the one thing he wasn't prepared to do, 1545 01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:47,334 was to not spend time with his family. 1546 01:24:47,417 --> 01:24:50,125 Once he had established a family in Raqqa, 1547 01:24:50,209 --> 01:24:51,375 they knew where to find him. 1548 01:24:51,459 --> 01:24:53,500 They didn't need to track him 24/7. 1549 01:24:53,584 --> 01:24:55,083 They just had to watch the family, 1550 01:24:55,167 --> 01:24:57,584 and similarly, wait for him to turn up. 1551 01:24:57,667 --> 01:25:00,709 Warren: He was very careful about his actions, 1552 01:25:00,792 --> 01:25:03,417 but you know what, they all slip up eventually. 1553 01:25:03,500 --> 01:25:07,292 Every one of these guys, to a one, 1554 01:25:07,375 --> 01:25:09,334 including the most famous one Osama Bin Laden, 1555 01:25:09,417 --> 01:25:13,125 they all make a mistake and when they do, 1556 01:25:13,209 --> 01:25:14,626 we kill them. 1557 01:25:14,709 --> 01:25:17,542 ( clock ticking ) 1558 01:25:21,292 --> 01:25:24,709 ( plane engines roaring ) 1559 01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:28,500 So eventually, we acquire our target. 1560 01:25:28,584 --> 01:25:31,000 We're fairly certain that it's Jihadi John, 1561 01:25:31,083 --> 01:25:33,542 and we see him, along with some colleagues. 1562 01:25:33,626 --> 01:25:34,751 enter into a vehicle. 1563 01:25:34,834 --> 01:25:36,709 So the location is Raqqa. 1564 01:25:36,792 --> 01:25:39,542 We believed at the time that he was heading to the city center, 1565 01:25:39,626 --> 01:25:41,209 and this goes on for some time. 1566 01:25:41,292 --> 01:25:42,876 He's driving around for, I don't know, 1567 01:25:42,959 --> 01:25:45,459 it might have been 45, it was a while. 1568 01:25:53,542 --> 01:25:55,042 Inside of that ops center, 1569 01:25:55,125 --> 01:25:57,834 the hunt for Jihadi John was fairly routine. 1570 01:25:57,918 --> 01:25:59,959 For me personally, I was more invested. 1571 01:26:00,042 --> 01:26:01,584 You know, he was my foe. 1572 01:26:01,667 --> 01:26:05,834 I had been trading blows with him for months at this point. 1573 01:26:05,918 --> 01:26:08,918 So you know, as we're following him around 1574 01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:12,167 and what we're really looking for is an opportunity to strike him. 1575 01:26:12,250 --> 01:26:14,334 You might be able to see an area, 1576 01:26:14,417 --> 01:26:16,584 but perhaps the missile can't negotiate 1577 01:26:16,667 --> 01:26:19,959 around the various buildings or population density. 1578 01:26:20,042 --> 01:26:23,751 So, we're trying to find the opportune time 1579 01:26:23,834 --> 01:26:25,042 to take the shot. 1580 01:26:25,125 --> 01:26:27,584 Because remember, if you shoot and miss 1581 01:26:27,667 --> 01:26:29,125 well guess what, now he knows. 1582 01:26:29,209 --> 01:26:30,751 Now he knows that we're shooting at him. 1583 01:26:30,834 --> 01:26:34,542 And sure enough, eventually he moves his vehicle 1584 01:26:34,626 --> 01:26:36,375 into a relatively open area. 1585 01:26:36,459 --> 01:26:41,125 In fact, ISIS had used previously for executions, 1586 01:26:41,209 --> 01:26:42,918 sort of a little poetic justice I guess. 1587 01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:47,375 His vehicle stops and we see a figure exit the vehicle. 1588 01:26:47,459 --> 01:26:50,375 We don't know what he's doing, but we did know that 1589 01:26:50,459 --> 01:26:53,375 this is not a bad little location here. 1590 01:26:53,459 --> 01:26:55,209 He steps out of the vehicle, 1591 01:26:55,292 --> 01:26:56,792 and now we have an opportunity 1592 01:26:56,876 --> 01:27:00,292 to really try to triple check that this is Jihadi John. 1593 01:27:00,375 --> 01:27:02,375 Because of the conditions, it was night, 1594 01:27:02,459 --> 01:27:04,959 we're using infrared, you can't see his face. 1595 01:27:05,042 --> 01:27:07,000 But we could sort of see how he moved, 1596 01:27:07,083 --> 01:27:08,709 the cut of his jib, so to speak. 1597 01:27:08,792 --> 01:27:10,459 You know, the angle of his beard. 1598 01:27:10,542 --> 01:27:12,375 You know, these things we could see. 1599 01:27:12,459 --> 01:27:14,375 Eventually we were convinced 1600 01:27:14,459 --> 01:27:15,792 that this is Jihadi John. 1601 01:27:15,876 --> 01:27:16,918 And so, 1602 01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:20,417 the floor commander at the time orders, 1603 01:27:20,500 --> 01:27:22,334 take the shot. 1604 01:27:22,417 --> 01:27:23,876 Man: He's left the vehicle. 1605 01:27:23,959 --> 01:27:26,209 Man 2: Roger. Let's see what he does. 1606 01:27:26,292 --> 01:27:27,834 Man: Wait... ( distorted radio chatter ) 1607 01:27:27,918 --> 01:27:30,918 - Man: Ready to engage. - Man 2: Standby. 1608 01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:32,918 - Man: Engage. - Man 2: Roger. 1609 01:27:33,000 --> 01:27:34,500 Man: Fire, hit it. 1610 01:27:37,918 --> 01:27:39,667 Warren: And then that missile's in flight 1611 01:27:39,751 --> 01:27:42,250 and the missile can fly anywhere from I don't know 1612 01:27:42,334 --> 01:27:44,334 five to 15 seconds and that really 1613 01:27:44,417 --> 01:27:46,209 is kind the most tense moment 1614 01:27:46,292 --> 01:27:48,500 because now that missile's gone you can't take it back. 1615 01:27:48,584 --> 01:27:53,167 And so you have these moments, it's all done 1616 01:27:53,250 --> 01:27:55,250 and you don't know what's gonna happen next. 1617 01:28:02,167 --> 01:28:04,792 ( bomb exploding ) 1618 01:28:23,876 --> 01:28:26,500 Wise: You might ask you know, was there high fiving 1619 01:28:26,584 --> 01:28:29,000 and celebration after this 1620 01:28:29,083 --> 01:28:33,250 and counterintuitively the answer is no. 1621 01:28:33,334 --> 01:28:35,209 This is the serious business 1622 01:28:35,292 --> 01:28:38,667 of eradicating an existential threat 1623 01:28:38,751 --> 01:28:40,542 by taking a human life. 1624 01:28:40,626 --> 01:28:42,542 I don't rejoice in anyone's death, 1625 01:28:42,626 --> 01:28:45,500 but it was certainly a good thing 1626 01:28:45,584 --> 01:28:50,125 that he was no longer able to do the really brutal 1627 01:28:50,209 --> 01:28:52,292 and disgusting things that we'd seen on video. 1628 01:28:52,375 --> 01:28:58,626 And yes, you could argue that Emwazi's departure 1629 01:28:58,709 --> 01:29:00,751 lethally and instantaneously 1630 01:29:00,834 --> 01:29:03,626 was perhaps unsatisfying. 1631 01:29:04,834 --> 01:29:06,959 It wasn't a 10-minute execution. 1632 01:29:08,542 --> 01:29:12,209 He didn't have to feel the cut of the steel. 1633 01:29:12,292 --> 01:29:14,292 I had a mixed feeling. 1634 01:29:14,375 --> 01:29:18,584 Of course I would have preferred to see him in court... 1635 01:29:20,167 --> 01:29:23,042 facing his charges... 1636 01:29:24,042 --> 01:29:26,542 and being blamed for 1637 01:29:26,626 --> 01:29:30,792 and answering for the crimes he committed. 1638 01:29:32,250 --> 01:29:36,167 It was mixed feeling, but the main feeling though 1639 01:29:36,250 --> 01:29:38,834 was the satisfaction, 1640 01:29:38,918 --> 01:29:41,375 the relief at least, 1641 01:29:41,459 --> 01:29:46,751 this person will not harm anyone anymore. 1642 01:29:46,834 --> 01:29:50,959 But... yeah in that instant, I was well aware 1643 01:29:51,042 --> 01:29:54,334 that there were plenty of other people who would step into his shoes, 1644 01:29:54,417 --> 01:29:56,292 it would have been, um... 1645 01:29:57,709 --> 01:30:00,792 strange to see this as a massive breakthrough. 1646 01:30:00,876 --> 01:30:01,918 It was... 1647 01:30:03,667 --> 01:30:07,375 a part of one particular story, 1648 01:30:07,459 --> 01:30:10,834 but the ISIL threat went on. 1649 01:30:12,375 --> 01:30:14,667 We're going to have to live with a level 1650 01:30:14,751 --> 01:30:17,918 of extreme Islamist violence 1651 01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:20,542 for some time to come, and it will continue 1652 01:30:20,626 --> 01:30:23,500 to inspire people in Western countries. 1653 01:30:23,584 --> 01:30:27,000 Wise: What you have are horrendous terrorist acts 1654 01:30:27,083 --> 01:30:28,334 all attributed to ISIS. 1655 01:30:28,417 --> 01:30:31,542 Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi had not a clue 1656 01:30:31,626 --> 01:30:33,542 that any of those things were going to happen, 1657 01:30:33,626 --> 01:30:37,292 but he didn't have to, what they got was inspiration 1658 01:30:37,375 --> 01:30:39,209 and that's all they needed. 1659 01:30:39,292 --> 01:30:40,876 News reporter: U.S.-led airstrikes are hitting the heart 1660 01:30:40,959 --> 01:30:43,000 of ISIS-controlled territory in Syria. 1661 01:30:43,083 --> 01:30:44,959 A coalition of nations has come together, 1662 01:30:45,042 --> 01:30:47,292 and Britain has to do its share. 1663 01:30:47,375 --> 01:30:49,918 News reporter: Day four of withering air strikes on ISIS targets. 1664 01:30:50,000 --> 01:30:51,959 News reporter 2: Proclamations of victory over the group 1665 01:30:52,042 --> 01:30:53,751 in both Iraq and Syria. 1666 01:30:53,834 --> 01:30:55,459 News Reporter 3: A secret deal reportedly allowed 1667 01:30:55,542 --> 01:30:56,792 some of the most notorious ISIS fighters 1668 01:30:56,876 --> 01:30:58,292 to escape from a besieged Syrian city. 1669 01:30:58,375 --> 01:31:00,667 They made an agreement so that they didn't 1670 01:31:00,751 --> 01:31:03,667 literally have to destroy Raqqa to save it. 1671 01:31:03,751 --> 01:31:07,959 I'm sure that was the least bad of the options. 1672 01:31:08,042 --> 01:31:11,417 Now what you're seeing already is the remnants 1673 01:31:11,500 --> 01:31:15,042 of these forces turning into insurgent groups. 1674 01:31:15,125 --> 01:31:16,792 These are elusive enemies now, 1675 01:31:16,876 --> 01:31:20,250 they are no longer wearing uniforms or flying black flags, 1676 01:31:20,334 --> 01:31:23,209 they are hiding among the population. 1677 01:31:23,292 --> 01:31:25,751 So this is going to be a very different threat. 1678 01:31:25,834 --> 01:31:27,834 I'm very confident that ultimately 1679 01:31:27,918 --> 01:31:32,083 Baghdadi will find himself on the X as well. 1680 01:31:32,167 --> 01:31:34,709 News reporter: Once some of the world's most wanted, 1681 01:31:34,792 --> 01:31:36,667 but now nobody wants them. 1682 01:31:36,751 --> 01:31:39,626 The last two of the British ISIS cell dubbed The Beatles 1683 01:31:39,709 --> 01:31:41,000 jailed in Syria. 1684 01:31:41,083 --> 01:31:42,209 How they'll face justice 1685 01:31:42,292 --> 01:31:44,334 is now a matter of hot debate. 1686 01:31:44,417 --> 01:31:46,542 Accused of waterboarding, crucifixion, 1687 01:31:46,626 --> 01:31:49,167 accessory to beheadings of Western hostages. 1688 01:31:49,250 --> 01:31:52,876 The Beatles, they are obsessed with their own self-image. 1689 01:31:52,959 --> 01:31:56,250 They have gone from capturing western journalists 1690 01:31:56,334 --> 01:31:59,000 to now trying to capture western journalists' attention, 1691 01:31:59,083 --> 01:32:01,834 turning their stories around as if they were victims, 1692 01:32:01,918 --> 01:32:04,751 and it's caused quite an interesting reaction 1693 01:32:04,834 --> 01:32:07,042 to what do we do with people like that. 1694 01:32:07,125 --> 01:32:10,709 Henin: I would expect to attend that trial 1695 01:32:10,792 --> 01:32:13,292 and what is of prime importance to me 1696 01:32:13,375 --> 01:32:15,959 is that this trial is fair. 1697 01:32:16,042 --> 01:32:19,500 We should not give them any chance 1698 01:32:19,584 --> 01:32:22,334 to portray themselves as victims. 1699 01:32:22,417 --> 01:32:24,209 We are the victim. 1700 01:32:24,292 --> 01:32:27,751 They are the perpetrators, they are the terrorists. 1701 01:32:27,834 --> 01:32:30,918 So much effort was spent on the fanaticism 1702 01:32:31,000 --> 01:32:34,542 that had led Jihadi John to go kill innocent people. 1703 01:32:34,626 --> 01:32:38,959 If you look at the amazing lives of his victims, 1704 01:32:39,042 --> 01:32:43,292 these lives are great examples of the power of networks 1705 01:32:43,375 --> 01:32:45,751 and people joining causes higher than themselves 1706 01:32:45,834 --> 01:32:47,959 and that use of networking and the higher cause, 1707 01:32:48,042 --> 01:32:52,209 I think, often is drowned out by the grisly 1708 01:32:52,292 --> 01:32:53,959 and the dark and the sensational. 1709 01:32:54,042 --> 01:32:56,792 I never, ever told my dad how proud I was of him 1710 01:32:56,876 --> 01:32:59,209 and it's only now when he's not here 1711 01:32:59,292 --> 01:33:02,250 that I realize how proud I actually was. 1712 01:33:02,334 --> 01:33:05,500 When David was always talking to his daughters. 1713 01:33:07,918 --> 01:33:09,709 He'd have his time... 1714 01:33:11,959 --> 01:33:14,709 when he just wanted to speak to his daughters. 1715 01:33:14,792 --> 01:33:16,626 Federico and I, 1716 01:33:16,709 --> 01:33:20,250 we were kind of forced together through this. 1717 01:33:20,334 --> 01:33:24,709 Yeah, yeah, yeah, we speak... um... often. 1718 01:33:26,584 --> 01:33:29,000 She's remarkably like her father... 1719 01:33:30,626 --> 01:33:33,792 in temperament and many ways. 1720 01:33:33,876 --> 01:33:36,250 I definitely see a lot of David in her. 1721 01:33:36,334 --> 01:33:39,125 When people tell me I'm a lot like my dad, 1722 01:33:39,209 --> 01:33:41,918 I used to always think, I don't believe it, I don't believe it. 1723 01:33:42,000 --> 01:33:44,918 So when he says, "Oh, you're so much like your dad," 1724 01:33:45,000 --> 01:33:46,626 it really does ring true, and you think, 1725 01:33:46,709 --> 01:33:49,125 Well, I must be doing something right. 1726 01:33:52,626 --> 01:33:54,250 Walton: There was a sense in which Emwazi 1727 01:33:54,334 --> 01:33:56,542 had fulfilled his ambitions, 1728 01:33:56,626 --> 01:33:59,876 but there was also some self-analysis by us 1729 01:33:59,959 --> 01:34:02,125 as to whether we'd actually had the right strategy 1730 01:34:02,209 --> 01:34:03,542 for this individual. 1731 01:34:03,626 --> 01:34:05,959 On the one hand, we had absolutely 1732 01:34:06,042 --> 01:34:07,876 understood the threat he posed, 1733 01:34:07,959 --> 01:34:11,709 but ultimately, we failed because he became what he wanted to be, 1734 01:34:11,792 --> 01:34:15,667 potentially one of the worst terrorists of all time. 1735 01:34:15,751 --> 01:34:19,334 To think that the level of-- of hatred 1736 01:34:19,417 --> 01:34:20,500 that must have been generated 1737 01:34:20,584 --> 01:34:22,918 over that short number of years 1738 01:34:23,000 --> 01:34:24,918 was such that it would have inspired him 1739 01:34:25,000 --> 01:34:27,000 to behave in a way that he did, 1740 01:34:27,083 --> 01:34:28,792 I find that incredible, 1741 01:34:28,876 --> 01:34:32,042 that's not the same person that-- that I knew. 1742 01:34:32,125 --> 01:34:34,500 He was a guy who had it all. 1743 01:34:34,584 --> 01:34:37,334 British passport, safety and security, 1744 01:34:37,417 --> 01:34:39,500 all the benefits of British society. 1745 01:34:39,584 --> 01:34:45,083 He had a future, and he gave it up for the Islamic State. 1746 01:34:45,167 --> 01:34:47,083 Ultimately it's a battle of ideas, 1747 01:34:47,167 --> 01:34:50,209 and I am confident that good ideas with the right support 1748 01:34:50,292 --> 01:34:53,417 will demonstrate that bad ideas are nihilistic, 1749 01:34:53,500 --> 01:34:55,417 they destroy themselves and others. 1750 01:34:55,500 --> 01:34:57,000 Somebody put it very strikingly. 1751 01:34:57,083 --> 01:35:01,209 They said the terrorist is like the fly in the china shop. 1752 01:35:01,292 --> 01:35:03,626 Now he can't destroy the china shop on his own. 1753 01:35:03,709 --> 01:35:05,584 The fly isn't nearly strong enough, 1754 01:35:05,667 --> 01:35:08,292 but if he gets inside the ear of a bull 1755 01:35:08,375 --> 01:35:12,292 then the bull if it panics will destroy the china shop. 1756 01:35:12,375 --> 01:35:14,250 We're the bull, they are the fly, 1757 01:35:14,334 --> 01:35:16,292 that's why it's important not to panic. 1758 01:35:16,375 --> 01:35:21,250 We need to have the courage to have a higher standard. 1759 01:35:21,334 --> 01:35:25,292 We must not debase ourselves to the level of hatred 1760 01:35:25,375 --> 01:35:26,667 that they have. 1761 01:35:26,751 --> 01:35:28,709 And as part of Jim's legacy, 1762 01:35:28,792 --> 01:35:33,459 we want to inspire young people to care 1763 01:35:33,542 --> 01:35:35,792 and do good things in the world. 1764 01:35:35,876 --> 01:35:38,209 We need that goodness.