1 00:00:01,627 --> 00:00:09,635 {\an1}♪ He's got the whole world in his hands ♪ 2 00:00:09,635 --> 00:00:16,015 {\an1}♪ He's got the whole world in his ♪ 3 00:00:16,015 --> 00:00:20,854 {\an1}♪ Hands ♪♪ 4 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,411 {\an1}REPORTER (over TV): Oregon voters legalize psychedelic mushrooms. 5 00:00:36,411 --> 00:00:38,997 {\an1}Oregon becomes the first entire state to do so. 6 00:00:38,997 --> 00:00:41,667 {\an1}MARIANA: For the first time in a long time, 7 00:00:41,667 --> 00:00:44,378 {\an1}psychedelic drugs are creeping into the mainstream. 8 00:00:44,378 --> 00:00:46,630 {\an1}REPORTER 2 (over TV): Some psychiatrists and researchers 9 00:00:46,630 --> 00:00:50,634 {\an1}are giving psychedelic drugs a second look as a possible way of 10 00:00:50,634 --> 00:00:52,844 {\an1}treating some mental illnesses. 11 00:00:52,844 --> 00:00:56,139 {\an1}STEVE (over TV): Some tech workers are experimenting with LSD. 12 00:00:56,139 --> 00:00:57,933 {\an1}The trend is called microdosing 13 00:00:57,933 --> 00:00:59,059 {\an1}REPORTER (over TV): Microdosing 14 00:00:59,059 --> 00:01:00,852 {\an1}REPORTER 2 (over TV): Microdosing. 15 00:01:00,852 --> 00:01:03,355 {\an1}MARIANA: It's a psychedelics renaissance. 16 00:01:03,355 --> 00:01:04,730 {\an1}STEVE (over TV): I had no idea this was still out there, 17 00:01:04,730 --> 00:01:05,941 {\an1}that this was, 18 00:01:05,941 --> 00:01:07,401 {\an1}this was something people were still doing. 19 00:01:07,401 --> 00:01:10,487 {\an1}MARIANA: New users, new uses, and of course, 20 00:01:10,487 --> 00:01:13,574 {\an1}a host of new celebrity endorsements. 21 00:01:13,574 --> 00:01:14,866 {\an1}JADA: I was introduced ten years ago. 22 00:01:14,866 --> 00:01:15,909 {\an1}ADRIENNE: Mm-hmm. 23 00:01:15,909 --> 00:01:17,244 {\an1}JADA: To deal with my depression. 24 00:01:17,244 --> 00:01:19,037 {\an1}ADRIENNE: Yeah. JADA: And it knocked it out. 25 00:01:19,037 --> 00:01:20,998 {\an1}ELON: People should be open to psych, psychedelics. 26 00:01:20,998 --> 00:01:22,749 {\an1}STING: I don't think psychedelics are the, 27 00:01:22,749 --> 00:01:24,793 {\an1}the answer to the world's problems, 28 00:01:24,793 --> 00:01:26,962 {\an1}but they could be a start. 29 00:01:26,962 --> 00:01:29,798 {\an1}MARIANA: Still, US law classifies most psychedelics 30 00:01:29,798 --> 00:01:32,050 {\an1}as Schedule I drugs. 31 00:01:32,050 --> 00:01:37,389 {\an1}That means making, dealing, or using is highly illegal. 32 00:01:37,389 --> 00:01:41,560 {\an1}So those seeking to cash in are also the ones willing to 33 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,396 {\an1}risk serious jail time. 34 00:01:46,189 --> 00:01:49,443 {\an1}I want to understand what this psychedelic boom looks like from 35 00:01:49,443 --> 00:01:52,571 {\an1}the underground, why it's happening now, 36 00:01:52,571 --> 00:01:56,533 {\an1}and why these drugs have been vilified for so long. 37 00:01:59,411 --> 00:02:03,248 {\an1}Which is how I find myself here. 38 00:02:03,623 --> 00:02:06,209 {\an1}This is pretty out there. 39 00:02:06,209 --> 00:02:07,794 {\an1}Pretty much in the middle of nowhere. 40 00:02:07,794 --> 00:02:10,881 {\an1}I know virtually nothing about who I'm meeting. 41 00:02:10,881 --> 00:02:14,343 {\an1}And only one thing about where I'm meeting him. 42 00:02:14,343 --> 00:02:17,012 {\an1}(phone line ringing) 43 00:02:17,012 --> 00:02:19,890 {\an1}They call it the Mushroom Mansion. 44 00:02:19,890 --> 00:02:21,183 {\an1}X (over phone): Hello? 45 00:02:21,183 --> 00:02:22,726 {\an1}MARIANA: Hi, I think I'm here. 46 00:02:22,726 --> 00:02:25,687 {\an1}X (over phone): I'm right here, in the garage. 47 00:02:31,068 --> 00:02:33,153 {\an1}MARIANA: How are you? I'm Mariana. 48 00:02:33,153 --> 00:02:34,613 {\an1}So this is it, huh? 49 00:02:34,613 --> 00:02:36,656 {\an1}X: Yup. 50 00:02:36,656 --> 00:02:37,991 {\an1}MARIANA: We're going inside? 51 00:02:37,991 --> 00:02:40,452 {\an1}X: Yup. 52 00:02:42,371 --> 00:02:44,081 {\an1}And these are sterilizers. 53 00:02:44,081 --> 00:02:47,417 {\an1}MARIANA: Oh. What's in here? 54 00:02:47,417 --> 00:02:50,504 {\an1}X: Uh, this is an incubation room. 55 00:02:50,504 --> 00:02:53,048 {\an1}MARIANA: Can I go in? X: Yeah. 56 00:02:53,048 --> 00:02:57,219 {\an1}MARIANA: Wow. This space is crazy. 57 00:03:03,433 --> 00:03:05,143 {\an1}There's a lot of bags here, huh? 58 00:03:05,143 --> 00:03:09,272 {\an1}X: Yeah. Probably close to 200. 59 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:13,610 {\an1}MARIANA: And how long have you been growing mushrooms for? 60 00:03:13,610 --> 00:03:16,530 {\an1}X: Uh, pretty consistently for the past five years. 61 00:03:16,530 --> 00:03:18,740 {\an1}MARIANA: Give me an idea, a sense of how much money you make? 62 00:03:18,740 --> 00:03:20,951 {\an1}X: We can do a couple hundred grand a month. 63 00:03:20,951 --> 00:03:22,494 {\an1}Yeah. 64 00:03:22,494 --> 00:03:24,829 {\an1}MARIANA: Wow, that's a lot of money. 65 00:03:24,829 --> 00:03:26,540 {\an1}X: Like, consistently. Yeah. 66 00:03:26,540 --> 00:03:28,959 {\an1}MARIANA: Out of this one house in the middle of nowhere, practically. 67 00:03:28,959 --> 00:03:31,169 {\an1}X: Yeah. Yeah. Y: Yeah. 68 00:03:31,169 --> 00:03:32,838 {\an1}MARIANA: Which part do you eat? You can eat the whole part? 69 00:03:32,838 --> 00:03:33,839 {\an1}X: The whole thing. MARIANA: The whole thing? 70 00:03:33,839 --> 00:03:35,257 {\an1}X: Mm-hmm. 71 00:03:35,257 --> 00:03:36,841 {\an1}MARIANA: And this is pretty powerful? 72 00:03:36,841 --> 00:03:39,594 {\an1}Y: This one is quite visual. 73 00:03:39,594 --> 00:03:44,307 {\an1}Color, geometrics, fractals. 74 00:03:44,307 --> 00:03:47,894 {\an1}MARIANA: It's not just mushrooms that are having a moment. 75 00:03:48,437 --> 00:03:52,232 {\an1}I've read that the demand for other types of mind-altering drugs 76 00:03:52,232 --> 00:03:54,901 {\an1}like peyote, mescaline, ayahuasca, 77 00:03:54,901 --> 00:03:57,737 {\an1}and DMT is also increasing. 78 00:03:57,737 --> 00:03:59,781 {\an1}♪ Little girl ♪♪ 79 00:03:59,781 --> 00:04:01,116 {\an1}MARIANA: But I also know that not 80 00:04:01,116 --> 00:04:04,786 {\an1}all mind-altering drugs are created equal. 81 00:04:04,786 --> 00:04:08,540 {\an1}There's one that offers the biggest highs and, allegedly, 82 00:04:08,540 --> 00:04:11,626 {\an1}some of the biggest profits. 83 00:04:11,626 --> 00:04:15,964 {\an1}It's what some consider to be the holy grail of psychedelics. 84 00:04:15,964 --> 00:04:19,050 {\an1}♪ My heart just won't behave ♪♪ 85 00:04:19,050 --> 00:04:21,136 {\an1}MARIANA: So do you know anything about LSD? 86 00:04:21,136 --> 00:04:25,891 {\an1}X: Yes, I've eaten copious amounts of LSD. 87 00:04:25,891 --> 00:04:28,393 {\an1}MARIANA: And do you know anything about the business side 88 00:04:28,393 --> 00:04:30,604 {\an1}of it, or the making side of it? 89 00:04:30,604 --> 00:04:33,899 {\an1}X: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 90 00:04:33,899 --> 00:04:36,443 {\an1}MARIANA: Do you, do you make LSD? 91 00:04:36,443 --> 00:04:37,736 {\an1}X: No, I do not. 92 00:04:37,736 --> 00:04:41,198 {\an1}If I get caught doing this, it's not that bad. 93 00:04:41,198 --> 00:04:44,201 {\an1}But if you get caught making LSD, you can do life in prison. 94 00:04:44,201 --> 00:04:45,619 {\an1}MARIANA: Wow. 95 00:04:45,619 --> 00:04:47,579 {\an1}There's a reason why even guys who sell 96 00:04:47,579 --> 00:04:52,082 {\an1}a massive amount of drugs from a place called, "The Mushroom Mansion," 97 00:04:52,082 --> 00:04:58,465 {\an1}wouldn't think of selling LSD and that reason is the 1960s. 98 00:04:59,758 --> 00:05:01,259 {\an1}KENNEDY: We face, therefore, 99 00:05:01,259 --> 00:05:03,595 {\an1}a moral crisis as a country and a people. 100 00:05:03,595 --> 00:05:06,306 {\an1}(rapid gunfire) 101 00:05:10,602 --> 00:05:13,313 {\an1}MARIANA: Historians talk about the '60s as a battle for 102 00:05:13,313 --> 00:05:14,773 {\an1}the soul of America. 103 00:05:14,773 --> 00:05:18,109 {\an1}♪ Love still hurts my tired eyes ♪ 104 00:05:18,109 --> 00:05:21,154 {\an1}♪ 'Cause I refuse to pass you by ♪♪ 105 00:05:21,154 --> 00:05:25,408 {\an1}MARIANA: But it was also a battle for the future of LSD. 106 00:05:25,408 --> 00:05:29,371 {\an1}♪ Peace in the garden of my mind ♪♪ 107 00:05:32,374 --> 00:05:35,752 {\an1}MARIANA: Researchers had high hopes that LSD might unlock 108 00:05:35,752 --> 00:05:38,463 {\an1}the mystery of mental illness. 109 00:05:38,463 --> 00:05:42,217 {\an1}The CIA thought it had potential as a mind-control weapon against 110 00:05:42,217 --> 00:05:44,177 {\an1}Cold War enemies. 111 00:05:44,177 --> 00:05:48,139 {\an1}And out in San Francisco, LSD was at the heart of a growing 112 00:05:48,139 --> 00:05:53,311 {\an1}counterculture movement that was anti-war and anti-establishment. 113 00:05:53,645 --> 00:05:58,108 {\an1}TIMOTHY: Turn on, tune in, drop out. 114 00:05:59,317 --> 00:06:01,653 {\an1}MARIANA: The controversy landed LSD on the cover of 115 00:06:01,653 --> 00:06:04,864 {\an1}Life magazine in 1966. 116 00:06:04,864 --> 00:06:07,450 {\an1}The article read, "The genie of LSD, 117 00:06:07,450 --> 00:06:11,872 {\an1}with all its tantalizing possibilities for good and evil, 118 00:06:11,872 --> 00:06:14,082 {\an1}is out in the open." 119 00:06:14,082 --> 00:06:16,501 {\an1}But it wasn't out in the open for long. 120 00:06:16,501 --> 00:06:20,672 {\an1}Ultimately, the country's conservative impulses won the day. 121 00:06:20,672 --> 00:06:21,882 {\an1}REPORTER: There is a relationship between 122 00:06:21,882 --> 00:06:24,050 {\an1}taking dope and protesting. 123 00:06:24,050 --> 00:06:27,304 {\an1}MARIANA: Acid got stigmatized. Hippies got marginalized. 124 00:06:27,304 --> 00:06:31,349 {\an1}And then in 1969, if the drug’s fate wasn't sealed already, 125 00:06:31,349 --> 00:06:33,560 {\an1}the Nightly News introduced America to 126 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,354 {\an1}LSD's most infamous users. 127 00:06:36,354 --> 00:06:37,939 {\an1}REPORTER (over TV): Friday night, in Los Angeles, 128 00:06:37,939 --> 00:06:41,026 {\an1}a movie actress and four of her friends were murdered. 129 00:06:41,026 --> 00:06:42,986 {\an1}The circumstances were lurid. 130 00:06:42,986 --> 00:06:45,697 {\an1}REPORTER 2 (over TV): Police said they were a pseudo-religious cult. 131 00:06:45,697 --> 00:06:47,782 {\an1}People who worked on the ranch said 132 00:06:47,782 --> 00:06:50,493 {\an1}they were heavy users of drugs. 133 00:06:51,494 --> 00:06:55,915 {\an1}MARIANA: Charles Manson was a proverbial nail in LSD's coffin. 134 00:06:55,915 --> 00:06:58,960 {\an1}MANSON: If I started murdering people, 135 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,296 {\an1}there'd be none of you left. 136 00:07:01,296 --> 00:07:03,882 {\an1}MARIANA: He was also further justification for 137 00:07:03,882 --> 00:07:06,259 {\an1}Richard Nixon's war on drugs. 138 00:07:06,259 --> 00:07:10,221 {\an1}NIXON: America's public enemy number one in the United States 139 00:07:10,221 --> 00:07:12,641 {\an1}is drug abuse. 140 00:07:13,475 --> 00:07:16,019 {\an1}MARIANA: It was a decade that drove the drug and the chemists 141 00:07:16,019 --> 00:07:18,647 {\an1}making it deep underground. 142 00:07:18,647 --> 00:07:22,901 {\an1}More than half a century later, that's where they remain. 143 00:07:24,986 --> 00:07:28,239 {\an1}♪ ♪ 144 00:07:37,332 --> 00:07:42,671 {\an1}(phone line ringing) 145 00:07:45,715 --> 00:07:49,260 {\an1}He's not answering his phone. 146 00:07:49,761 --> 00:07:51,304 {\an1}So we're following this car. 147 00:07:51,304 --> 00:07:54,641 {\an1}He's a, a guy in there, who knows we're following him, 148 00:07:54,641 --> 00:07:59,813 {\an1}who's going around downtown Vancouver selling LSD tonight. 149 00:07:59,813 --> 00:08:02,691 {\an1}He's gonna purchase some more from his supplier. 150 00:08:02,691 --> 00:08:06,403 {\an1}What we're trying, really trying to do is get to his supplier. 151 00:08:06,820 --> 00:08:09,698 {\an1}I'm in Vancouver, where one of my sources has connected me with 152 00:08:09,698 --> 00:08:12,075 {\an1}a street-level LSD dealer. 153 00:08:12,075 --> 00:08:13,910 {\an1}(phone line ringing) 154 00:08:17,622 --> 00:08:20,332 {\an1}MARIANA: Uh, so we're still following you. 155 00:08:20,332 --> 00:08:22,711 {\an1}Are you meeting this person at their house or? 156 00:08:25,046 --> 00:08:27,966 {\an1}MARIANA: Okay. So when we get there, where do you want us to be? 157 00:08:41,770 --> 00:08:43,481 {\an1}MARIANA: Shoot. 158 00:08:43,481 --> 00:08:46,735 {\an1}So I think it's here and he's asked us not to be seen. 159 00:08:46,735 --> 00:08:49,988 {\an1}Just keep rolling. Just keep rolling, guys. 160 00:08:54,367 --> 00:08:56,286 {\an1}Yeah, so it's happening right there. 161 00:08:56,286 --> 00:08:57,912 {\an1}See he's coming out of the car? 162 00:08:57,912 --> 00:08:59,748 {\an1}He's just crossing the street. 163 00:08:59,748 --> 00:09:02,959 {\an1}He's going into a house, I think. 164 00:09:08,757 --> 00:09:12,469 {\an1}(knocking) 165 00:09:12,469 --> 00:09:13,595 {\an1}WOMAN: Hey. RAM DASS: How are you? 166 00:09:13,595 --> 00:09:14,596 {\an1}WOMAN: Good, how are you? 167 00:09:21,644 --> 00:09:23,021 {\an1}(siren blaring) 168 00:09:23,021 --> 00:09:24,647 {\an1}MARIANA: Is this an ambulance siren, or police? 169 00:09:28,109 --> 00:09:29,694 {\an1}MARIANA: Do you guys hear the cops? 170 00:09:31,946 --> 00:09:32,947 {\an1}WOMAN: You betcha. 171 00:09:32,947 --> 00:09:34,908 {\an1}MARIANA: Is he coming out? 172 00:09:34,908 --> 00:09:37,410 {\an1}He is. He's coming out. 173 00:09:37,410 --> 00:09:39,245 {\an1}Is he? 174 00:09:39,245 --> 00:09:41,623 {\an1}Okay, he's walking towards us now. 175 00:09:45,502 --> 00:09:49,172 {\an1}Hi. So is that, is that what you just bought? 176 00:09:52,884 --> 00:09:54,177 {\an1}MARIANA: Can I see it? 177 00:09:58,723 --> 00:10:01,100 {\an1}MARIANA: Oh, wow. 178 00:10:01,100 --> 00:10:02,602 {\an1}Yeah, it's a reference to the Grateful Dead, right? 179 00:10:02,602 --> 00:10:03,603 {\an1}The dancing bear? 180 00:10:05,313 --> 00:10:06,356 {\an1}MARIANA: So, how many doses are in this? 181 00:10:09,901 --> 00:10:12,946 {\an1}MARIANA: Mm-hmm. Sorry, we're just making sure that there's no, 182 00:10:12,946 --> 00:10:14,405 {\an1}we were hearing cops before. 183 00:10:14,405 --> 00:10:16,241 {\an1}Got nervous when I heard it. 184 00:10:17,617 --> 00:10:20,245 {\an1}MARIANA: What would happen if the, the police found you with this stuff? 185 00:10:20,245 --> 00:10:21,871 {\an1}If you're driving off now in your car and 186 00:10:21,871 --> 00:10:23,122 {\an1}the police stops you and found this stuff? 187 00:10:30,463 --> 00:10:31,464 {\an1}MARIANA: You'd get time? 188 00:10:35,260 --> 00:10:36,511 {\an1}MARIANA: And so why do you do it? Why risk it? 189 00:10:37,846 --> 00:10:38,847 {\an1}MARIANA: Right. 190 00:10:39,806 --> 00:10:41,057 {\an1}MARIANA: How much did you buy it for? 191 00:10:43,101 --> 00:10:44,894 {\an1}RAM DASS: On it. 192 00:10:44,894 --> 00:10:45,103 {\an1}MARIANA: How much can you sell it for? How much money do you make? 193 00:11:01,911 --> 00:11:03,121 {\an1}MARIANA: That's good money. Why did you agree to talk to us? 194 00:11:13,882 --> 00:11:16,551 {\an1}MARIANA: So you truly believe that by selling LSD, 195 00:11:16,551 --> 00:11:18,219 {\an1}by selling acid, you're helping people. 196 00:11:26,811 --> 00:11:29,188 {\an1}MARIANA: I've reported on a lot of drugs in my career, 197 00:11:29,188 --> 00:11:31,816 {\an1}but I've never had a cocaine or heroin dealer 198 00:11:31,816 --> 00:11:34,986 {\an1}talk about the benefits of using. 199 00:11:34,986 --> 00:11:37,780 {\an1}The people I'm meeting in this psychedelic trade seem to 200 00:11:37,780 --> 00:11:39,908 {\an1}be a different breed. 201 00:11:39,908 --> 00:11:42,493 {\an1}Dealers and believers. 202 00:11:42,493 --> 00:11:45,580 {\an1}There's somebody supplying the person that just sold you with the LSD? 203 00:11:51,961 --> 00:11:53,004 {\an1}MARIANA: A chemist? 204 00:11:55,548 --> 00:11:56,799 {\an1}MARIANA: A hippie. 205 00:12:01,596 --> 00:12:03,056 {\an1}MARIANA: I push for more details, 206 00:12:03,056 --> 00:12:05,475 {\an1}but that's all he's got. 207 00:12:06,434 --> 00:12:09,228 {\an1}I'm not surprised. 208 00:12:09,228 --> 00:12:13,232 {\an1}Supply chains are often compartmentalized like this. 209 00:12:13,232 --> 00:12:15,985 {\an1}That way, if low-level dealers get caught, 210 00:12:15,985 --> 00:12:18,613 {\an1}they don't endanger the key players. 211 00:12:18,613 --> 00:12:23,284 {\an1}But, to be honest, I'm getting the sense that this LSD supply chain 212 00:12:23,284 --> 00:12:25,954 {\an1}isn't like others I've reported on. 213 00:12:25,954 --> 00:12:28,998 {\an1}So I decide I need to do a bit more digging. 214 00:12:29,958 --> 00:12:32,627 {\an1}MAN: Really difficult to get people to, to open up. 215 00:12:32,627 --> 00:12:35,421 {\an1}More so than any other drug that I've ever researched, 216 00:12:35,421 --> 00:12:39,092 {\an1}the people that I've spoken to are almost evangelical about the drug. 217 00:12:39,092 --> 00:12:40,593 {\an1}MARIANA: I talk to journalists. 218 00:12:40,593 --> 00:12:45,223 {\an1}MAN: This drug is not really motivated by money, necessarily. 219 00:12:46,182 --> 00:12:48,685 {\an1}MARK: I've heard that there are very few chemists. 220 00:12:48,685 --> 00:12:50,395 {\an1}MARIANA: I talk to researchers. 221 00:12:50,395 --> 00:12:52,230 {\an1}MARK: It's a, it's a hard thing to make. 222 00:12:52,230 --> 00:12:54,607 {\an1}The underground manufactures and sells, 223 00:12:54,607 --> 00:12:57,318 {\an1}and often they sell it to therapists who are making 224 00:12:57,318 --> 00:12:59,195 {\an1}this service available. 225 00:12:59,195 --> 00:13:01,781 {\an1}MARIANA: But if you actually want to try LSD anywhere in the world right now, 226 00:13:01,781 --> 00:13:03,658 {\an1}you are doing something completely illegal? 227 00:13:03,658 --> 00:13:05,785 {\an1}MARK: Absolutely. Yes. 228 00:13:06,119 --> 00:13:08,496 {\an1}MARIANA: I talk to other psychedelic dealers. 229 00:13:08,496 --> 00:13:10,164 {\an1}LUCY: With psychedelics and within the community, 230 00:13:10,164 --> 00:13:12,125 {\an1}people that know won't talk and 231 00:13:12,125 --> 00:13:14,335 {\an1}the people that talk don't know. 232 00:13:15,586 --> 00:13:18,506 {\an1}MARIANA: I even head to my first Grateful Dead show, 233 00:13:18,506 --> 00:13:21,050 {\an1}to try and make some connections. 234 00:13:26,681 --> 00:13:29,142 {\an1}The parking lot feels like spring break for 235 00:13:29,142 --> 00:13:31,894 {\an1}the psychedelics crowd. 236 00:13:31,894 --> 00:13:33,396 {\an1}Is it easy to find here? 237 00:13:33,396 --> 00:13:35,064 {\an1}BEN: It's very easy to find here. 238 00:13:35,064 --> 00:13:37,650 {\an1}You could probably find it within, like, two minutes. 239 00:13:37,650 --> 00:13:38,693 {\an1}Just stand out in front of my booth. 240 00:13:38,693 --> 00:13:39,777 {\an1}Yeah. 241 00:13:39,777 --> 00:13:41,237 {\an1}It'll come, it'll come through. 242 00:13:41,237 --> 00:13:43,531 {\an1}MARIANA: You, you saw, I just saw the police car going 243 00:13:43,531 --> 00:13:44,532 {\an1}back and forth here. 244 00:13:44,532 --> 00:13:45,742 {\an1}BEN: Yeah. Yeah. 245 00:13:45,742 --> 00:13:46,617 {\an1}MARIANA: So they know that this is happening? 246 00:13:46,617 --> 00:13:49,495 {\an1}BEN: 100%. 100%. 247 00:13:49,495 --> 00:13:51,539 {\an1}MAN: I got gummy bears edibles guys! 248 00:13:51,539 --> 00:13:54,625 {\an1}Get them all just for $10. Get them while they're cold. 249 00:13:56,461 --> 00:13:59,130 {\an1}MARIANA: Eventually I find my guy, who I'm told 250 00:13:59,130 --> 00:14:01,966 {\an1}is a major player. 251 00:14:01,966 --> 00:14:05,011 {\an1}He's wearing a bacon and eggs mask and 252 00:14:05,011 --> 00:14:08,723 {\an1}his head is covered in beans. 253 00:14:16,731 --> 00:14:23,112 {\an1}♪ ♪ 254 00:14:23,446 --> 00:14:24,572 {\an1}SPARKLES: So. 255 00:14:24,572 --> 00:14:25,865 {\an1}MARIANA: Do you always put on gloves? 256 00:14:25,865 --> 00:14:26,949 {\an1}SPARKLES: Yeah, it's pretty easy to get stung, 257 00:14:26,949 --> 00:14:29,035 {\an1}if you know what I mean. 258 00:14:30,203 --> 00:14:31,829 {\an1}So this is all liquid acid. 259 00:14:31,829 --> 00:14:34,832 {\an1}All these vials here, this is all LSD. 260 00:14:34,832 --> 00:14:36,918 {\an1}MARIANA: And each one of these little squares is a dose? 261 00:14:36,918 --> 00:14:38,336 {\an1}SPARKLES: It's a hit of acid, yeah. 262 00:14:38,336 --> 00:14:39,587 {\an1}MARIANA: Yeah. And this one? This one is free, right? 263 00:14:39,587 --> 00:14:41,005 {\an1}It doesn't have any. 264 00:14:41,005 --> 00:14:43,007 {\an1}SPARKLES: Yeah, that one doesn't have any acid on it. 265 00:14:44,926 --> 00:14:46,427 {\an1}MARIANA: Does it smell like anything? 266 00:14:46,427 --> 00:14:48,971 {\an1}SPARKLES: I mean, not really. It's diluted with alcohol. 267 00:14:48,971 --> 00:14:50,890 {\an1}MARIANA: Yeah. It smells a little bit like alcohol... 268 00:14:50,890 --> 00:14:52,892 {\an1}SPARKLES: Yeah. MARIANA: Right? 269 00:14:52,892 --> 00:14:54,977 {\an1}MARIANA: In a basement that smells of Chinese food, 270 00:14:54,977 --> 00:14:58,189 {\an1}I meet Sparkles, who claims to be one of 271 00:14:58,189 --> 00:15:01,818 {\an1}the West Coast's biggest suppliers of LSD. 272 00:15:01,818 --> 00:15:03,444 {\an1}SPARKLES: I just like spreading the love, you know? 273 00:15:03,444 --> 00:15:05,113 {\an1}Everybody's gotta do this, this is crazy. 274 00:15:05,113 --> 00:15:06,864 {\an1}MARIANA: How do people find you? 275 00:15:06,864 --> 00:15:08,533 {\an1}SPARKLES: Just through friends, you know? 276 00:15:08,533 --> 00:15:10,284 {\an1}MARIANA: And then, so if you trust this person, 277 00:15:10,284 --> 00:15:12,328 {\an1}then how do you send it off? 278 00:15:12,328 --> 00:15:13,830 {\an1}SPARKLES: It's pretty easy to disguise. 279 00:15:13,830 --> 00:15:15,456 {\an1}You can just put it in a card, you can put it in a book. 280 00:15:15,456 --> 00:15:17,208 {\an1}It's a piece of paper, literally. 281 00:15:17,208 --> 00:15:19,043 {\an1}This is probably as good as it gets. 282 00:15:19,043 --> 00:15:20,586 {\an1}It's extremely pure. 283 00:15:20,586 --> 00:15:22,046 {\an1}MARIANA: This stuff here? SPARKLES: Yeah. 284 00:15:22,046 --> 00:15:24,090 {\an1}MARIANA: And where did you get this from? 285 00:15:24,090 --> 00:15:26,551 {\an1}SPARKLES: Um, I get it from, it's just, you know, 286 00:15:26,551 --> 00:15:30,138 {\an1}it's an old friend who is pretty involved in the industry. 287 00:15:30,555 --> 00:15:33,182 {\an1}MARIANA: Do you think that person would talk to us? 288 00:15:33,182 --> 00:15:35,893 {\an1}SPARKLES: I don't think they would. 289 00:15:35,893 --> 00:15:39,272 {\an1}MARIANA: I ask if he knows the hippie chemist in the mountains. 290 00:15:39,272 --> 00:15:41,190 {\an1}SPARKLES: I don't know him personally. 291 00:15:41,190 --> 00:15:45,403 {\an1}I know that there's only really been one and from as far as I understand, 292 00:15:45,403 --> 00:15:48,781 {\an1}he's been retired for a few years now. 293 00:15:48,781 --> 00:15:51,242 {\an1}I think, you know, he's getting older, 294 00:15:51,242 --> 00:15:52,702 {\an1}or he's got his life. 295 00:15:52,702 --> 00:15:54,036 {\an1}He's made his money. 296 00:15:54,036 --> 00:15:55,955 {\an1}He's happy to kind of just relax. 297 00:15:55,955 --> 00:15:58,249 {\an1}MARIANA: And, so who, there's somebody else making it? 298 00:15:58,249 --> 00:15:59,959 {\an1}SPARKLES: Well, currently we're just still kind of 299 00:15:59,959 --> 00:16:01,586 {\an1}running through old stock. 300 00:16:01,586 --> 00:16:02,837 {\an1}You don't need very much, right? 301 00:16:02,837 --> 00:16:06,048 {\an1}So, like, a single gram of LSD is 10,000 doses. 302 00:16:06,048 --> 00:16:08,718 {\an1}MARIANA: Wow, so it's still this, this big batch of. 303 00:16:08,718 --> 00:16:11,137 {\an1}SPARKLES: Yeah, we're still using the same batch. 304 00:16:11,137 --> 00:16:12,680 {\an1}For now, anyways. 305 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,600 {\an1}MARIANA: That's right, the drug is so potent that 306 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,186 {\an1}the hippie chemist who seems to be supplying all of 307 00:16:18,186 --> 00:16:22,899 {\an1}Vancouver's acid is supposedly a retired hippie chemist, 308 00:16:22,899 --> 00:16:26,777 {\an1}who hasn't made a new batch in years. 309 00:16:26,777 --> 00:16:28,654 {\an1}So why do you think it's so secretive? 310 00:16:28,654 --> 00:16:29,780 {\an1}Apart from the fact that it's illegal. 311 00:16:29,780 --> 00:16:30,865 {\an1}SPARKLES: Yeah. Yeah, it's illegal. 312 00:16:30,865 --> 00:16:31,782 {\an1}But it's also just, kind of, like an 313 00:16:31,782 --> 00:16:33,326 {\an1}old wizard's club, you know? 314 00:16:33,326 --> 00:16:35,620 {\an1}It's kind of like the Acid Illuminati. 315 00:16:35,620 --> 00:16:37,121 {\an1}That way they keep their secrets. 316 00:16:37,121 --> 00:16:39,248 {\an1}They don't really want a lot of people knowing who they are. 317 00:16:39,248 --> 00:16:42,627 {\an1}MARIANA: The reverence he has for these chemists surprises me. 318 00:16:42,627 --> 00:16:45,963 {\an1}Typically drug supply chains lead back to ruthless 319 00:16:45,963 --> 00:16:49,008 {\an1}cartel bosses or gang leaders. 320 00:16:49,008 --> 00:16:51,886 {\an1}But Sparkles talks of these chemists more like 321 00:16:51,886 --> 00:16:55,473 {\an1}misunderstood healers or shamans. 322 00:16:55,473 --> 00:16:57,642 {\an1}Not everyone agrees. 323 00:16:58,184 --> 00:17:01,062 {\an1}DENNIS: I think it all comes down to greed and profit. 324 00:17:01,062 --> 00:17:04,190 {\an1}MARIANA: Dennis Wichern was a DEA agent for more than 30 years 325 00:17:04,190 --> 00:17:08,152 {\an1}and feels strongly about the dangers of LSD. 326 00:17:08,152 --> 00:17:09,945 {\an1}DENNIS: You're putting something in your body that 327 00:17:09,945 --> 00:17:11,530 {\an1}you don't know how it's made. 328 00:17:11,530 --> 00:17:13,324 {\an1}You don't know what the dose is. 329 00:17:13,324 --> 00:17:17,036 {\an1}Allegedly a dose of LSD is contained in a microgram. 330 00:17:17,036 --> 00:17:21,457 {\an1}We're talking specs off the tip of a pen. 331 00:17:21,457 --> 00:17:24,961 {\an1}So if it's too much, that's gonna alter the effect. 332 00:17:24,961 --> 00:17:27,922 {\an1}And then you don't know the quality control either. 333 00:17:27,922 --> 00:17:30,424 {\an1}And you know what? You're playing Russian roulette. 334 00:17:30,424 --> 00:17:35,346 {\an1}MARIANA: In 2000, the DEA made the biggest bust in LSD history. 335 00:17:35,346 --> 00:17:37,890 {\an1}REPORTER (over TV): DEA agents believe the LSD lab is 336 00:17:37,890 --> 00:17:40,518 {\an1}one of the largest in the world 337 00:17:40,518 --> 00:17:43,187 {\an1}MARIANA: The lab of chemist Leonard Pickard was hidden 338 00:17:43,187 --> 00:17:47,316 {\an1}inside a decommissioned missile silo in Kansas. 339 00:17:47,316 --> 00:17:52,488 {\an1}On hand was enough LSD for nearly 400 million hits of acid. 340 00:17:53,990 --> 00:17:57,785 {\an1}DENNIS: In effect, you took a, a, a world class LSD chemist off 341 00:17:57,785 --> 00:18:01,247 {\an1}the table who could no longer manufacture LSD. 342 00:18:01,247 --> 00:18:03,916 {\an1}MARIANA: But finding other chemists hasn't been easy. 343 00:18:03,916 --> 00:18:06,502 {\an1}DENNIS: The LSD supply chain, historically, 344 00:18:06,502 --> 00:18:08,462 {\an1}has been hard to crack because it's been 345 00:18:08,462 --> 00:18:13,884 {\an1}a small group of people with the scientific expertise to make it. 346 00:18:13,884 --> 00:18:19,181 {\an1}The LSD cooks and the users have kind of like a cult following. 347 00:18:20,433 --> 00:18:23,060 {\an1}MARIANA: It's that cult-like following that still 348 00:18:23,060 --> 00:18:26,564 {\an1}has me itching to find a chemist myself. 349 00:18:30,401 --> 00:18:33,988 {\an1}So yeah, so this is where she said we should meet her. 350 00:18:35,698 --> 00:18:37,950 {\an1}Okay, yeah. This is her. 351 00:18:38,242 --> 00:18:39,243 {\an1}Hi! 352 00:18:39,243 --> 00:18:40,369 {\an1}MICHELLE: Hi. How's it going? 353 00:18:40,369 --> 00:18:41,704 {\an1}MARIANA: How are you, Michelle? Good. 354 00:18:41,704 --> 00:18:42,830 {\an1}MICHELLE: I'm good. MARIANA: Thanks for meeting me. 355 00:18:42,830 --> 00:18:44,373 {\an1}Should we go for a little ride, then? 356 00:18:44,373 --> 00:18:46,375 {\an1}MICHELLE: Yeah, absolutely. 357 00:18:46,751 --> 00:18:49,128 {\an1}MARIANA: Back in Los Angeles, I turn to a journalist with 358 00:18:49,128 --> 00:18:51,964 {\an1}deep connections in the psychedelics world, 359 00:18:51,964 --> 00:18:53,382 {\an1}Michelle Lhoog. 360 00:18:53,382 --> 00:18:54,634 {\an1}MICHELLE: Have you ever done psychedelics? 361 00:18:54,634 --> 00:18:56,385 {\an1}MARIANA: I am terrified of drugs, so. 362 00:18:56,385 --> 00:18:57,845 {\an1}MICHELLE: Oh, interesting. 363 00:18:57,845 --> 00:19:01,098 {\an1}MARIANA: That's, I'm really afraid of losing control. 364 00:19:03,142 --> 00:19:05,311 {\an1}MICHELLE: Well, it's interesting that you say you're, like, 365 00:19:05,311 --> 00:19:09,106 {\an1}a little afraid of drugs, because I think psychedelics 366 00:19:09,106 --> 00:19:11,942 {\an1}kind of change a lot of the paradigm of what 367 00:19:11,942 --> 00:19:13,736 {\an1}people consider to be drugs. 368 00:19:13,736 --> 00:19:15,279 {\an1}MARIANA: Mm-hmm. 369 00:19:15,279 --> 00:19:16,947 {\an1}MICHELLE: Especially now, that these substances are recognized 370 00:19:16,947 --> 00:19:19,283 {\an1}as therapeutic, and there's, like, real research coming out. 371 00:19:19,283 --> 00:19:21,118 {\an1}MARIANA: Right. 372 00:19:23,454 --> 00:19:27,291 {\an1}MICHELLE: Honestly, trying to find an LSD chemist is one of 373 00:19:27,291 --> 00:19:30,002 {\an1}the most difficult things that you can try and do. 374 00:19:30,002 --> 00:19:31,379 {\an1}MARIANA: And why is that? 375 00:19:31,379 --> 00:19:33,172 {\an1}MICHELLE: Because I think there are only, like, 376 00:19:33,172 --> 00:19:36,425 {\an1}about ten people who make LSD. 377 00:19:36,425 --> 00:19:39,553 {\an1}So, you know, it's a very, you have to be, like, 378 00:19:39,553 --> 00:19:42,098 {\an1}a really good organic chemist to be able to do this. 379 00:19:42,098 --> 00:19:43,349 {\an1}MARIANA: So it's a mystery for you, even for you? 380 00:19:43,349 --> 00:19:44,600 {\an1}And you've been doing this for years. 381 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:45,935 {\an1}MICHELLE: Nobody knows. 382 00:19:45,935 --> 00:19:48,729 {\an1}I talk to dozens of dealers and underground sources. 383 00:19:48,729 --> 00:19:50,272 {\an1}Nobody knows. 384 00:19:50,272 --> 00:19:54,151 {\an1}It literally is, I think, one of the greatest mysteries 385 00:19:54,151 --> 00:19:56,862 {\an1}in the underground drug world. 386 00:20:04,370 --> 00:20:08,457 {\an1}MARIANA: But I know these chemists are out there and 387 00:20:08,457 --> 00:20:11,377 {\an1}I'm going to do my best to find one. 388 00:20:16,716 --> 00:20:19,009 {\an1}♪ ♪ 389 00:20:19,009 --> 00:20:21,178 {\an1}MAN: Weeds are our common enemy. 390 00:20:21,178 --> 00:20:23,514 {\an1}Here at the Dow Chemical Company, 391 00:20:23,514 --> 00:20:26,475 {\an1}revolutionary chemical killers are being produced to 392 00:20:26,475 --> 00:20:28,978 {\an1}help rid us of these costly pests. 393 00:20:28,978 --> 00:20:32,732 {\an1}MARIANA: In 1966, a Dow chemist best known for creating 394 00:20:32,732 --> 00:20:35,359 {\an1}the first biodegradable pesticide, 395 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,987 {\an1}left the corporate world to focus on his 396 00:20:37,987 --> 00:20:41,490 {\an1}private obsession; psychedelics. 397 00:20:43,451 --> 00:20:46,370 {\an1}His name was Alexander Shulgin. 398 00:20:46,370 --> 00:20:48,622 {\an1}Working quietly in his backyard lab, 399 00:20:48,622 --> 00:20:53,335 {\an1}east of San Francisco, Shulgin began synthesizing new drugs. 400 00:20:54,420 --> 00:20:56,922 {\an1}He tested them on himself first. 401 00:20:56,922 --> 00:21:01,135 {\an1}If promising, he gave doses to his wife and a group of friends. 402 00:21:01,135 --> 00:21:03,846 {\an1}ALEXANDER: What I'm searching for are materials that could 403 00:21:03,846 --> 00:21:07,057 {\an1}open up ways of understanding how the mind works. 404 00:21:07,057 --> 00:21:11,437 {\an1}MARIANA: Over the years he discovered more than 200 new psychedelics. 405 00:21:11,437 --> 00:21:14,815 {\an1}Many of which he thought had great potential for 406 00:21:14,815 --> 00:21:19,445 {\an1}the treatment of depression, phobias, and PTSD. 407 00:21:20,905 --> 00:21:23,741 {\an1}But by the late 1980s, there was a renewed crackdown 408 00:21:23,741 --> 00:21:25,659 {\an1}on illegal drugs. 409 00:21:25,659 --> 00:21:27,495 {\an1}REAGAN: I will announce tomorrow a series of 410 00:21:27,495 --> 00:21:30,623 {\an1}new proposals for a drug free America. 411 00:21:30,623 --> 00:21:32,625 {\an1}MARIANA: Shulgin, like other chemists, 412 00:21:32,625 --> 00:21:34,460 {\an1}began to fear that the Feds might be 413 00:21:34,460 --> 00:21:36,712 {\an1}spying on him and his research. 414 00:21:36,712 --> 00:21:39,548 {\an1}So he decided to share his secrets, eventually, 415 00:21:39,548 --> 00:21:43,385 {\an1}self-publishing two books of his compounds and findings. 416 00:21:43,385 --> 00:21:44,970 {\an1}ALEXANDER: 25 milligrams, no effect. 417 00:21:44,970 --> 00:21:46,430 {\an1}40, no effect. 418 00:21:46,430 --> 00:21:50,643 {\an1}81 milligrams, smooth shift into a light intoxication. 419 00:21:52,228 --> 00:21:55,189 {\an1}MARIANA: Two years later, the DEA raided his lab, 420 00:21:55,189 --> 00:21:59,944 {\an1}calling his writings a cookbook for how to make illegal drugs. 421 00:21:59,944 --> 00:22:02,196 {\an1}REAGAN: Just say no. 422 00:22:02,196 --> 00:22:04,698 {\an1}(cheering) 423 00:22:11,163 --> 00:22:17,962 {\an1}(singing in native language). 424 00:22:19,129 --> 00:22:21,715 {\an1}MARIANA: Definitely a very isolated place. 425 00:22:21,715 --> 00:22:24,802 {\an1}We're in the middle of this sort of valley. 426 00:22:24,802 --> 00:22:26,679 {\an1}Got this mountain with boulders. 427 00:22:26,679 --> 00:22:29,431 {\an1}There's a lot of trailers up on the mountain 428 00:22:29,431 --> 00:22:30,891 {\an1}and on the side of the road. 429 00:22:30,891 --> 00:22:32,643 {\an1}(phone line ringing) 430 00:22:32,643 --> 00:22:34,895 {\an1}Hey. How are you? 431 00:22:34,895 --> 00:22:36,564 {\an1}I'm not sure we're in the right place. 432 00:22:36,564 --> 00:22:39,858 {\an1}We're coming down this sort of mountain. 433 00:22:39,858 --> 00:22:41,151 {\an1}PRODUCER (over phone): I'm going to send you a pin to 434 00:22:41,151 --> 00:22:42,862 {\an1}the location that he sent me. 435 00:22:42,862 --> 00:22:45,447 {\an1}We, we've been talking to proxies. 436 00:22:45,447 --> 00:22:46,699 {\an1}MARIANA: Is that a security? 437 00:22:46,699 --> 00:22:48,367 {\an1}Is he just not comfortable talking to you? 438 00:22:48,367 --> 00:22:50,160 {\an1}PRODUCER (over phone): I think it's a security measure, yeah. 439 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,162 {\an1}MARIANA: Yeah. 440 00:22:52,162 --> 00:22:53,789 {\an1}PRODUCER (over phone): So I'll send you a pin and the pin is to a gate. 441 00:22:53,789 --> 00:22:56,500 {\an1}You get out at the gate and then you take your first left 442 00:22:56,500 --> 00:23:00,045 {\an1}onto a dirt pass, and he'll be there waiting for you. 443 00:23:00,045 --> 00:23:02,339 {\an1}MARIANA: Okay, great, thanks. Bye. 444 00:23:02,339 --> 00:23:05,009 {\an1}I've hit brick wall after brick wall in my search 445 00:23:05,009 --> 00:23:07,386 {\an1}for an LSD chemist. 446 00:23:07,386 --> 00:23:10,347 {\an1}But I think I may have found another way in. 447 00:23:10,347 --> 00:23:14,101 {\an1}I see another abandoned trailer. 448 00:23:15,853 --> 00:23:18,731 {\an1}Is it this way, you guys think? 449 00:23:18,731 --> 00:23:21,108 {\an1}I mean, that's what the pin's telling me. 450 00:23:29,241 --> 00:23:31,869 {\an1}In my research, I've learned that one of the key ingredients 451 00:23:31,869 --> 00:23:35,956 {\an1}in LSD is a difficult to find precursor chemical called 452 00:23:35,956 --> 00:23:38,250 {\an1}ergotamine tartrate. 453 00:23:38,250 --> 00:23:42,004 {\an1}It's highly regulated and closely watched by the DEA. 454 00:23:42,004 --> 00:23:44,882 {\an1}I'm told that one kilo on the black market can go 455 00:23:44,882 --> 00:23:47,760 {\an1}for hundreds of thousands of dollars. 456 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,763 {\an1}But without it, there can be no LSD. 457 00:23:50,763 --> 00:23:54,016 {\an1}MICHELLE (over phone): These chemists don't talk to anybody. 458 00:23:54,016 --> 00:23:57,895 {\an1}Everybody else in the pipeline has no idea who this chemist is 459 00:23:57,895 --> 00:23:59,647 {\an1}where they're getting their source. 460 00:23:59,647 --> 00:24:01,690 {\an1}Almost like a cult. 461 00:24:02,149 --> 00:24:04,485 {\an1}MARIANA: In the past, much of the underground supply 462 00:24:04,485 --> 00:24:06,695 {\an1}came from Europe or Asia. 463 00:24:06,695 --> 00:24:08,948 {\an1}But Michelle told me that she's learned of a chemist 464 00:24:08,948 --> 00:24:13,827 {\an1}that's making it right here in the United States. 465 00:24:15,746 --> 00:24:19,833 {\an1}I'm eager to hear what an insider might know. 466 00:24:19,833 --> 00:24:22,836 {\an1}Plus, there's nothing I like better than heading into 467 00:24:22,836 --> 00:24:27,257 {\an1}the woods to meet a stranger in a mask. 468 00:24:33,972 --> 00:24:38,727 {\an1}♪ ♪ 469 00:24:38,727 --> 00:24:40,354 {\an1}MARIANA: How are you? JOE: Joe. 470 00:24:40,354 --> 00:24:41,855 {\an1}MARIANA: Hi, Joe. Nice to meet you. 471 00:24:41,855 --> 00:24:43,524 {\an1}Thanks for meeting with us. 472 00:24:43,524 --> 00:24:45,693 {\an1}I'll take a seat here. 473 00:24:47,361 --> 00:24:51,073 {\an1}Nice place. Really isolated. 474 00:24:51,407 --> 00:24:53,117 {\an1}Um... 475 00:24:53,117 --> 00:24:55,536 {\an1}How did it all start for you? 476 00:24:55,536 --> 00:24:56,829 {\an1}(sighs) 477 00:24:56,829 --> 00:24:58,539 {\an1}JOE: Pardon me. MARIANA: No worries. 478 00:24:58,539 --> 00:24:59,915 {\an1}We can take as many breaks as you want. 479 00:24:59,915 --> 00:25:01,542 {\an1}That's not a comfortable way... 480 00:25:01,542 --> 00:25:03,585 {\an1}JOE: It's not a comfortable question, either. 481 00:25:03,585 --> 00:25:07,673 {\an1}I went to a birthday party of some of my friends and 482 00:25:07,673 --> 00:25:10,509 {\an1}met some other people that were there. 483 00:25:10,509 --> 00:25:12,594 {\an1}And I didn't know that those were the people that 484 00:25:12,594 --> 00:25:14,847 {\an1}were trying to hire me. 485 00:25:14,847 --> 00:25:17,182 {\an1}And then later on they approached me for the job. 486 00:25:17,182 --> 00:25:19,435 {\an1}They wanted to see who I was and how I acted. 487 00:25:19,435 --> 00:25:21,145 {\an1}MARIANA: So tell me a little bit about what you did, 488 00:25:21,145 --> 00:25:23,147 {\an1}I guess we can start there. 489 00:25:23,147 --> 00:25:27,609 {\an1}JOE: Um, so there's a lot of things that go into making LSD 490 00:25:27,609 --> 00:25:32,531 {\an1}and one of the things that I do is synthesize the precursors. 491 00:25:32,531 --> 00:25:34,241 {\an1}MARIANA: Ergotamine? JOE: Right. 492 00:25:34,241 --> 00:25:37,036 {\an1}Something that hasn't been done in the States recently. 493 00:25:37,036 --> 00:25:38,454 {\an1}Instead of buying it off the dark web, 494 00:25:38,454 --> 00:25:40,664 {\an1}from Ukraine, or something like that. 495 00:25:40,664 --> 00:25:42,207 {\an1}MARIANA: Right. 496 00:25:42,207 --> 00:25:44,376 {\an1}What we heard is that there's not a lot of people actually 497 00:25:44,376 --> 00:25:46,128 {\an1}making it outside of pharmaceutical companies 498 00:25:46,128 --> 00:25:47,421 {\an1}because it is so difficult. 499 00:25:47,421 --> 00:25:48,714 {\an1}JOE: That's correct. 500 00:25:48,714 --> 00:25:50,299 {\an1}MARIANA: And how are you capable of doing that? 501 00:25:50,299 --> 00:25:52,885 {\an1}JOE: I mean, whatever someone makes in a pharmaceutical lab, 502 00:25:52,885 --> 00:25:55,304 {\an1}with the right equipment, I can make also. 503 00:25:55,304 --> 00:25:59,058 {\an1}MARIANA: I've found my way to a chemist who makes ergotamine tartrate, 504 00:25:59,058 --> 00:26:02,227 {\an1}the hardest to source ingredient in LSD. 505 00:26:02,227 --> 00:26:03,228 {\an1}You have a chemistry degree? 506 00:26:03,228 --> 00:26:04,688 {\an1}JOE: Sure. 507 00:26:04,688 --> 00:26:06,106 {\an1}You know, chemistry is not something you just wanna wake-up 508 00:26:06,106 --> 00:26:07,357 {\an1}and smoke a joint and do... 509 00:26:07,357 --> 00:26:09,026 {\an1}MARIANA: Mm-hmm. 510 00:26:09,026 --> 00:26:11,361 {\an1}JOE: And what I do maybe takes, like, two and a half weeks. 511 00:26:11,361 --> 00:26:13,572 {\an1}MARIANA: Oh, for a batch of ergotamine? 512 00:26:13,572 --> 00:26:15,032 {\an1}JOE: Right. 513 00:26:15,032 --> 00:26:16,617 {\an1}To do it, you need to make a large amount at one time. 514 00:26:16,617 --> 00:26:19,620 {\an1}MARIANA: We asked if we could go to your lab, several times. 515 00:26:19,620 --> 00:26:21,747 {\an1}JOE: Mm-hmm. MARIANA: And what did you say? 516 00:26:21,747 --> 00:26:24,666 {\an1}JOE: That's a definite no. MARIANA: And why is that? 517 00:26:24,666 --> 00:26:26,418 {\an1}JOE: It would be dangerous for you, 518 00:26:26,418 --> 00:26:28,629 {\an1}it would be dangerous for everyone I work for. 519 00:26:28,629 --> 00:26:30,297 {\an1}Yeah, it's not, that's not smart. 520 00:26:30,297 --> 00:26:31,632 {\an1}And that's not how we do things. 521 00:26:31,632 --> 00:26:33,133 {\an1}We definitely wouldn't do that. 522 00:26:33,133 --> 00:26:34,802 {\an1}MARIANA: I know you don't wanna talk about the lab much, 523 00:26:34,802 --> 00:26:36,094 {\an1}but can you give me a sense? 524 00:26:36,094 --> 00:26:37,513 {\an1}Does it look like a professional lab? 525 00:26:37,513 --> 00:26:39,181 {\an1}That's like a lab-lab? 526 00:26:39,181 --> 00:26:41,725 {\an1}JOE: It looks like a house. 527 00:26:45,062 --> 00:26:49,108 {\an1}And there's like a, a kitchen that looks like it's a normal kitchen. 528 00:26:49,108 --> 00:26:50,776 {\an1}And someone goes in there and washes dishes, 529 00:26:50,776 --> 00:26:52,528 {\an1}that aren't really dishes. 530 00:26:52,528 --> 00:26:54,404 {\an1}Someone goes and mows the yard. 531 00:26:54,404 --> 00:26:57,616 {\an1}And, uh, we only come over there once, or twice a year. 532 00:26:57,616 --> 00:26:59,326 {\an1}MARIANA: Really? JOE: Yeah. 533 00:26:59,326 --> 00:27:01,245 {\an1}MARIANA: So they actually have people go there and 534 00:27:01,245 --> 00:27:03,247 {\an1}do jobs that aren't necessary, 535 00:27:03,247 --> 00:27:04,706 {\an1}only to pretend like it's a, you know. 536 00:27:04,706 --> 00:27:06,333 {\an1}JOE: 100%, to make it look like someone's lives there. 537 00:27:06,333 --> 00:27:07,292 {\an1}No one lives there. 538 00:27:07,292 --> 00:27:08,627 {\an1}MARIANA: Oh. 539 00:27:08,627 --> 00:27:10,170 {\an1}So what, once a week somebody goes and mows the lawn? 540 00:27:10,170 --> 00:27:11,505 {\an1}JOE: Mows the lawn, yeah, waves to the neighbors. 541 00:27:11,505 --> 00:27:12,923 {\an1}Stuff like that. 542 00:27:12,923 --> 00:27:14,383 {\an1}MARIANA: So it doesn't, doesn't smell like anything? 543 00:27:14,383 --> 00:27:15,968 {\an1}JOE: We make sure it doesn't smell. 544 00:27:15,968 --> 00:27:18,512 {\an1}There's many filters. Air controlled environments. 545 00:27:18,512 --> 00:27:20,889 {\an1}Yup. Vacuum sealed rooms. 546 00:27:20,889 --> 00:27:22,266 {\an1}Very common. 547 00:27:22,266 --> 00:27:24,268 {\an1}MARIANA: And do the neighbors ever look at you or? 548 00:27:24,268 --> 00:27:25,811 {\an1}JOE: Yeah, you wave to them and you smile, 549 00:27:25,811 --> 00:27:28,063 {\an1}like you're the friends going over to a party. 550 00:27:28,063 --> 00:27:29,189 {\an1}You might bring a bottle of wine, 551 00:27:29,189 --> 00:27:30,649 {\an1}or something that you never drink. 552 00:27:30,649 --> 00:27:32,234 {\an1}MARIANA: Hmm. 553 00:27:32,234 --> 00:27:33,610 {\an1}JOE: You wanna make sure everything look like it's normal. 554 00:27:33,610 --> 00:27:35,571 {\an1}Sometimes I'll bring up flowers, or something. 555 00:27:35,571 --> 00:27:37,406 {\an1}Or sometimes I'll act like I'm doing something that 556 00:27:37,406 --> 00:27:38,532 {\an1}normal person would do. 557 00:27:38,532 --> 00:27:39,575 {\an1}MARIANA: Mm-hmm. 558 00:27:39,575 --> 00:27:41,618 {\an1}JOE: And I don't wear my lab coat. 559 00:27:41,618 --> 00:27:44,413 {\an1}MARIANA: And so, twice a year, more or less, 560 00:27:44,413 --> 00:27:48,667 {\an1}you and other people, an LSD chemist, go into this house. 561 00:27:48,667 --> 00:27:50,002 {\an1}JOE: Sure. Other people, 562 00:27:50,002 --> 00:27:52,212 {\an1}their job might take longer or less time than mine. 563 00:27:52,212 --> 00:27:53,505 {\an1}MARIANA: Mm-hmm. 564 00:27:53,505 --> 00:27:55,507 {\an1}JOE: Usually we work separate from each other. 565 00:27:55,507 --> 00:27:57,009 {\an1}I've been there when two or three people are working at 566 00:27:57,009 --> 00:27:58,635 {\an1}the same time and that's okay. 567 00:27:58,635 --> 00:28:00,387 {\an1}MARIANA: Mm-hmm. JOE: But we don't hang out. 568 00:28:00,387 --> 00:28:03,390 {\an1}We don't chill and talk about our, our work. 569 00:28:03,390 --> 00:28:05,017 {\an1}We're not friends. 570 00:28:05,017 --> 00:28:06,476 {\an1}MARIANA: So it's compartmentalized? 571 00:28:06,476 --> 00:28:08,687 {\an1}JOE: Of course. I separate myself completely. 572 00:28:08,687 --> 00:28:11,440 {\an1}MARIANA: But there is a person at the top, I'm assuming? 573 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,527 {\an1}JOE: You would assume, yeah. MARIANA: You would assume, okay. 574 00:28:15,861 --> 00:28:17,321 {\an1}One of the things that we've heard is that people that are 575 00:28:17,321 --> 00:28:19,364 {\an1}making LSD, that there are some chemists out there that 576 00:28:19,364 --> 00:28:20,824 {\an1}are making millions of dollars. 577 00:28:20,824 --> 00:28:22,659 {\an1}JOE: That's correct. 578 00:28:22,659 --> 00:28:23,911 {\an1}MARIANA: Are you making millions of? 579 00:28:23,911 --> 00:28:26,079 {\an1}JOE: I'm not gonna tell you that. 580 00:28:26,079 --> 00:28:28,123 {\an1}MARIANA: Do you even know the chemist that makes the LSD? 581 00:28:28,123 --> 00:28:30,250 {\an1}JOE: No. 582 00:28:30,250 --> 00:28:32,961 {\an1}MARIANA: And if you did, do you think he'd talk to us, basically? 583 00:28:32,961 --> 00:28:36,214 {\an1}JOE: Absolutely not. MARIANA: But you are. 584 00:28:36,214 --> 00:28:39,718 {\an1}JOE: Sure. 585 00:28:39,718 --> 00:28:44,264 {\an1}Those people, to say that they're camera shy would be an understatement. 586 00:28:44,264 --> 00:28:47,976 {\an1}Like a hermit. Beyond a hermit. 587 00:28:49,227 --> 00:28:51,271 {\an1}I really doubt it. 588 00:28:52,856 --> 00:28:55,943 {\an1}MARIANA: The irony, of course, is that even as the makers of 589 00:28:55,943 --> 00:28:59,321 {\an1}the drug remain a mystery, the users I've spoken with are 590 00:28:59,321 --> 00:29:02,866 {\an1}only too eager to taut the drug's power in helping them 591 00:29:02,866 --> 00:29:05,827 {\an1}work through trauma, like PTSD. 592 00:29:16,380 --> 00:29:19,132 {\an1}MATT: Oh, damn. 593 00:29:20,133 --> 00:29:23,220 {\an1}So, I enlisted in the military when I was 19 years old. 594 00:29:23,220 --> 00:29:28,558 {\an1}Here I am in 2006 going to Iraq for the first time. 595 00:29:28,558 --> 00:29:29,726 {\an1}MARIANA: Oh, that's you. 596 00:29:29,726 --> 00:29:31,603 {\an1}MATT: Yeah, this is me right here. 597 00:29:31,603 --> 00:29:34,564 {\an1}Yeah, I was, I was probably 20, 21 there, actually. 598 00:29:34,564 --> 00:29:38,860 {\an1}Iraq was such a hot combat zone that I didn't really know what 599 00:29:38,860 --> 00:29:41,071 {\an1}I was getting into. 600 00:29:41,071 --> 00:29:44,074 {\an1}I volunteered for a job which involved scanning the roads for, 601 00:29:44,074 --> 00:29:45,867 {\an1}for bombs, for roadside bombs. 602 00:29:45,867 --> 00:29:48,328 {\an1}MARIANA: Mm-hmm. MATT: For IEDs. 603 00:29:50,580 --> 00:29:52,958 {\an1}I drove this, this vehicle called The Husky. 604 00:29:52,958 --> 00:29:55,711 {\an1}It was a, it was a metal detector and the vehicle behind 605 00:29:55,711 --> 00:29:57,754 {\an1}it would drive up and it had a giant robotic arm, 606 00:29:57,754 --> 00:29:59,881 {\an1}which would inspect the area right there. 607 00:29:59,881 --> 00:30:01,216 {\an1}MARIANA: Mm-hmm. 608 00:30:01,216 --> 00:30:02,551 {\an1}MATT: So we dealt with a lot of live explosives. 609 00:30:02,551 --> 00:30:03,760 {\an1}MARIANA: IEDs, at this point, 610 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,595 {\an1}were the number one killer of soldiers... 611 00:30:05,595 --> 00:30:06,680 {\an1}MATT: Yeah. 612 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,390 {\an1}MARIANA: American soldiers in Iraq. 613 00:30:08,390 --> 00:30:11,351 {\an1}MATT: Oh yeah. We found, like, 1,600 roadside bombs in a year. 614 00:30:11,351 --> 00:30:12,811 {\an1}MARIANA: Wow. MATT: Yes. 615 00:30:12,811 --> 00:30:13,895 {\an1}MARIANA: And your job was to go out and look for IEDs? 616 00:30:13,895 --> 00:30:15,480 {\an1}MATT: Oh yeah. 617 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,983 {\an1}And I would rather take the explosion than let my, my fellow, 618 00:30:17,983 --> 00:30:20,736 {\an1}my fellow comrades take it. 619 00:30:21,528 --> 00:30:24,197 {\an1}MARIANA: One day, Matt was tasked with clearing what 620 00:30:24,197 --> 00:30:26,825 {\an1}the Army calls, "Black routes." 621 00:30:26,825 --> 00:30:28,618 {\an1}MATT: We were going in, like, uncharted lands, 622 00:30:28,618 --> 00:30:31,955 {\an1}and we didn't know what was buried in there. 623 00:30:31,955 --> 00:30:34,291 {\an1}We were the ones that would made black routes green. 624 00:30:34,291 --> 00:30:35,876 {\an1}We would make them safe again for people. 625 00:30:35,876 --> 00:30:39,254 {\an1}That day, I remember going through villages, 626 00:30:39,254 --> 00:30:41,131 {\an1}and most of the time people would wave at you and 627 00:30:41,131 --> 00:30:43,884 {\an1}be so happy that you were there. 628 00:30:45,427 --> 00:30:47,804 {\an1}And we happened to go through a village and, you know, 629 00:30:47,804 --> 00:30:50,724 {\an1}absolutely nobody was there. 630 00:30:50,724 --> 00:30:54,686 {\an1}And immediately that fear is in your stomach. 631 00:30:58,899 --> 00:31:00,901 {\an1}(explosion) 632 00:31:00,901 --> 00:31:03,653 {\an1}MARIANA: Ooh. MATT: Yeah. 633 00:31:05,781 --> 00:31:09,618 {\an1}I didn't happen to find the, the, the bomb in time. 634 00:31:09,618 --> 00:31:11,703 {\an1}It went off and destroyed my vehicle. 635 00:31:11,703 --> 00:31:13,914 {\an1}It cut my communications off from my team and 636 00:31:13,914 --> 00:31:16,208 {\an1}I was just kind of sitting there. 637 00:31:16,792 --> 00:31:21,379 {\an1}(radio static) 638 00:31:22,631 --> 00:31:23,882 {\an1}MARIANA: The force of the blast knocked 639 00:31:23,882 --> 00:31:27,302 {\an1}Matt unconscious for several minutes. 640 00:31:27,302 --> 00:31:31,014 {\an1}MATT: I had to jump from the top of that vehicle to the concrete. 641 00:31:31,014 --> 00:31:32,265 {\an1}MARIANA: And were you injured? 642 00:31:32,265 --> 00:31:33,767 {\an1}Were you, what were you feeling at this moment? 643 00:31:33,767 --> 00:31:35,477 {\an1}MATT: Nothing. Just pure adrenaline. 644 00:31:35,477 --> 00:31:36,853 {\an1}I'm getting shot at. 645 00:31:36,853 --> 00:31:38,230 {\an1}MARIANA: And you were being shot at the same time? 646 00:31:38,230 --> 00:31:39,689 {\an1}MATT: Oh yeah, yeah. After I got blown up, yeah. 647 00:31:39,689 --> 00:31:42,234 {\an1}(rapid gunfire) 648 00:31:42,234 --> 00:31:44,903 {\an1}I remember just running, and running, and running. 649 00:31:44,903 --> 00:31:46,655 {\an1}At the time, being so young and stuff, I, I, I, 650 00:31:46,655 --> 00:31:49,449 {\an1}I told them my back hurt and I told them I was, 651 00:31:49,449 --> 00:31:51,493 {\an1}I was in pain, and, uh, 652 00:31:51,493 --> 00:31:53,620 {\an1}I kinda didn't, I didn't take care of it. 653 00:31:53,620 --> 00:31:54,830 {\an1}I didn't take it seriously. 654 00:31:54,830 --> 00:31:55,997 {\an1}I just kind of let it ride and 655 00:31:55,997 --> 00:31:59,209 {\an1}I had actually injured myself pretty bad. 656 00:31:59,209 --> 00:32:02,295 {\an1}MARIANA: Matt had a damaged spine and nerves, 657 00:32:02,295 --> 00:32:05,340 {\an1}injuries that would be compounded by years of physical 658 00:32:05,340 --> 00:32:08,301 {\an1}and mental stress in war-zones. 659 00:32:08,301 --> 00:32:11,429 {\an1}He served two tours in Iraq and another in Afghanistan, 660 00:32:11,429 --> 00:32:14,099 {\an1}before returning home to Minnesota. 661 00:32:14,099 --> 00:32:17,769 {\an1}MATT: So the lowest point after, after I got out of the military, 662 00:32:17,769 --> 00:32:18,937 {\an1}landed a really good job and, 663 00:32:18,937 --> 00:32:21,189 {\an1}and things kind of, kind of fell through 664 00:32:21,189 --> 00:32:25,277 {\an1}with that, and, uh, I didn't feel too good about myself. 665 00:32:25,277 --> 00:32:28,530 {\an1}I had all this time and I started to just dwindle away. 666 00:32:28,530 --> 00:32:32,325 {\an1}And pretty soon I was in bed just not even, not even leaving. 667 00:32:32,325 --> 00:32:35,620 {\an1}And just, just laying there. 668 00:32:35,620 --> 00:32:39,124 {\an1}MARIANA: That's been particularly hard on his two sons. 669 00:32:39,124 --> 00:32:41,001 {\an1}MATT: I don't have a very good relationship with them, 670 00:32:41,001 --> 00:32:42,752 {\an1}because of the PTSD. 671 00:32:42,752 --> 00:32:44,421 {\an1}It's just, it's so inconsistent. 672 00:32:44,421 --> 00:32:47,007 {\an1}You're just not there. 673 00:32:47,007 --> 00:32:49,092 {\an1}You're not, you're not there when you should be. 674 00:32:49,092 --> 00:32:51,052 {\an1}And like, I don't, you can't help it, 675 00:32:51,052 --> 00:32:53,305 {\an1}you wanna be, but you just sit there and you can't do it. 676 00:32:53,305 --> 00:32:55,182 {\an1}You just physically can't with your mind. 677 00:32:55,182 --> 00:32:57,517 {\an1}And you just, it's like you're protecting yourself, 678 00:32:57,517 --> 00:33:00,228 {\an1}but you have these children that needs you. 679 00:33:00,228 --> 00:33:03,064 {\an1}MARIANA: Mm-hmm. MATT: It's really hard. 680 00:33:03,773 --> 00:33:07,027 {\an1}You know, I had, I had thoughts of, like, it's, 681 00:33:07,027 --> 00:33:08,403 {\an1}it's time to go. 682 00:33:08,403 --> 00:33:11,615 {\an1}You can, nobody, you know, nobody cares about you. 683 00:33:11,615 --> 00:33:15,535 {\an1}Just go ahead and kill yourself. 684 00:33:17,370 --> 00:33:21,499 {\an1}MARIANA: Matt says he tried every FDA approved drug for PTSD 685 00:33:21,499 --> 00:33:23,877 {\an1}but felt like nothing was working. 686 00:33:23,877 --> 00:33:27,589 {\an1}MATT: So in those days when you take the, the medicine from, from the VA, 687 00:33:27,589 --> 00:33:29,799 {\an1}you just essentially become a sitting zombie. 688 00:33:29,799 --> 00:33:32,052 {\an1}There's no life, you're just a vegetable. 689 00:33:32,052 --> 00:33:36,014 {\an1}I told a buddy what was going on and he, he kind of talked to me, 690 00:33:36,014 --> 00:33:39,726 {\an1}and he said, "I have this acid." 691 00:33:39,726 --> 00:33:41,728 {\an1}And I was like, I was like, "An acid?" 692 00:33:41,728 --> 00:33:44,022 {\an1}He's like, "Yeah, you've never taken acid before?" 693 00:33:44,022 --> 00:33:46,066 {\an1}What I figured, I had nothing to lose. 694 00:33:46,066 --> 00:33:48,818 {\an1}I had this little piece of paper and I kind of laughed and, 695 00:33:48,818 --> 00:33:49,819 {\an1}you know, "What would it do?" 696 00:33:49,819 --> 00:33:51,988 {\an1}And I, I put it in my mouth. 697 00:34:01,414 --> 00:34:05,919 {\an1}♪ ♪ 698 00:34:05,919 --> 00:34:07,379 {\an1}THERAPIST: Okay, Matt. 699 00:34:07,379 --> 00:34:09,839 {\an1}Well, it's that time for the medicine. 700 00:34:09,839 --> 00:34:12,259 {\an1}And as you know, that we here at Akasa Journeys 701 00:34:12,259 --> 00:34:14,928 {\an1}don't provide the medicine, we just sit for you. 702 00:34:14,928 --> 00:34:16,679 {\an1}You checked it out, you know your sources. 703 00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:17,931 {\an1}MATT: Yeah, my medicine's safe. 704 00:34:17,931 --> 00:34:19,766 {\an1}THERAPIST: Very good. 705 00:34:23,561 --> 00:34:29,359 {\an1}♪ ♪ 706 00:34:29,359 --> 00:34:31,902 {\an1}MARIANA: After years of struggling with PTSD and 707 00:34:31,902 --> 00:34:35,197 {\an1}on the brink of suicide, Iraq veteran, Matt, 708 00:34:35,197 --> 00:34:37,826 {\an1}says he turned the corner after a first time at 709 00:34:37,826 --> 00:34:41,246 {\an1}home dose of LSD. 710 00:34:42,289 --> 00:34:45,125 {\an1}MATT: I remember I got out of bed and I took a shower, 711 00:34:45,125 --> 00:34:47,835 {\an1}and I put clothes on and I came out of the room, 712 00:34:47,835 --> 00:34:49,587 {\an1}and interacted with everybody. 713 00:34:49,587 --> 00:34:51,589 {\an1}And I played with my kids. 714 00:34:51,589 --> 00:34:53,842 {\an1}We had the best night ever. 715 00:34:53,842 --> 00:34:56,803 {\an1}The thing in my mind was gone, there was no fear. 716 00:34:56,803 --> 00:34:59,472 {\an1}MARIANA: So, that one time alone changed you completely? 717 00:34:59,472 --> 00:35:01,308 {\an1}MATT: Yeah, where I don't want to kill myself anymore. 718 00:35:01,308 --> 00:35:04,227 {\an1}And everybody needs to see this and experience it. 719 00:35:04,227 --> 00:35:06,104 {\an1}MARIANA: And that is what led Matt to seek out 720 00:35:06,104 --> 00:35:09,941 {\an1}a new form of underground treatment for trauma. 721 00:35:09,941 --> 00:35:13,403 {\an1}One that uses talk therapy and guided tripping sessions 722 00:35:13,403 --> 00:35:17,657 {\an1}under the influence of illegally sourced LSD. 723 00:35:19,451 --> 00:35:21,328 {\an1}MATT: I'm, I'm pretty nervous. 724 00:35:21,328 --> 00:35:25,332 {\an1}I'm ready to almost grab this blanket and prepare myself for blastoff. 725 00:35:25,332 --> 00:35:27,125 {\an1}THERAPIST: Okay. 726 00:35:27,125 --> 00:35:30,337 {\an1}MARIANA: It takes nearly an hour before Matt even begins to feel 727 00:35:30,337 --> 00:35:32,589 {\an1}the LSD in his system. 728 00:35:32,589 --> 00:35:35,258 {\an1}He's nervous about where the trip might take him. 729 00:35:35,258 --> 00:35:37,385 {\an1}THERAPIST: Yeah, you just wanna let that stuff flow. 730 00:35:37,385 --> 00:35:39,429 {\an1}You know, when you had that accident and got blown up, 731 00:35:39,429 --> 00:35:41,306 {\an1}and then you were left alone for a while. 732 00:35:41,306 --> 00:35:43,975 {\an1}You know, that's a very tough experience. 733 00:35:43,975 --> 00:35:46,102 {\an1}You know, it's an unfolding. 734 00:35:46,102 --> 00:35:49,856 {\an1}You know, 'cause psychedelics open a door to a stairway. 735 00:35:49,856 --> 00:35:51,274 {\an1}And it may be difficult, you know, 736 00:35:51,274 --> 00:35:54,027 {\an1}and that's part of the process. 737 00:35:57,155 --> 00:35:58,323 {\an1}MATT: I don't know. 738 00:35:58,323 --> 00:35:59,658 {\an1}You're, like, you're playing heads or tails, 739 00:35:59,658 --> 00:36:01,534 {\an1}if it's going to be a good time, or a bad time. 740 00:36:01,534 --> 00:36:04,454 {\an1}If you're going to have to deal with something traumatic. 741 00:36:07,332 --> 00:36:08,666 {\an1}MARK: If you look at something like PTSD, 742 00:36:08,666 --> 00:36:10,210 {\an1}it's a tape loop... 743 00:36:10,210 --> 00:36:12,712 {\an1}(rapid gunfire) 744 00:36:12,712 --> 00:36:15,298 {\an1}That horrible experience replays itself again and 745 00:36:15,298 --> 00:36:17,634 {\an1}again and again. 746 00:36:17,634 --> 00:36:19,135 {\an1}And it's triggered. 747 00:36:19,135 --> 00:36:21,304 {\an1}It's triggered uncontrollably. 748 00:36:21,304 --> 00:36:23,056 {\an1}MARIANA: Earlier in my investigation, 749 00:36:23,056 --> 00:36:25,975 {\an1}I talked to researchers in Vancouver who helped shed light 750 00:36:25,975 --> 00:36:30,105 {\an1}on why psychedelics can be so effective in therapy. 751 00:36:30,105 --> 00:36:32,732 {\an1}MARK: Traditional treatments can go there and find the tape loop, 752 00:36:32,732 --> 00:36:36,403 {\an1}but they trigger the tape loop and there's a huge fear response. 753 00:36:36,403 --> 00:36:39,322 {\an1}Psychedelics allow access to the unconscious mind. 754 00:36:39,322 --> 00:36:41,616 {\an1}You can actually go there and find the tape loop without 755 00:36:41,616 --> 00:36:43,284 {\an1}the big fear response. 756 00:36:43,284 --> 00:36:47,789 {\an1}You can go into the tape loop and essentially release its energy. 757 00:36:48,873 --> 00:36:50,667 {\an1}MARIANA: But the optimism around psychedelics 758 00:36:50,667 --> 00:36:53,586 {\an1}doesn't exist in a vacuum. 759 00:36:53,586 --> 00:36:55,630 {\an1}ERIC (over TV): The people who called police said the man, 760 00:36:55,630 --> 00:36:57,549 {\an1}who was apparently high on LSD, 761 00:36:57,549 --> 00:37:00,343 {\an1}was acting erratically and actually attacked another man. 762 00:37:00,343 --> 00:37:03,847 {\an1}(yelling) 763 00:37:03,847 --> 00:37:07,308 {\an1}MARIANA: Retired DEA agent Dennis Wichern is quick to 764 00:37:07,308 --> 00:37:11,020 {\an1}point out there's no shortage of tragic incidents in either 765 00:37:11,020 --> 00:37:13,857 {\an1}case files or the evening news. 766 00:37:13,857 --> 00:37:15,775 {\an1}DENNIS: On the law enforcement side, 767 00:37:15,775 --> 00:37:19,863 {\an1}you see the pain and misery by a family member when their, their child's 768 00:37:19,863 --> 00:37:22,365 {\an1}taken it and had some effect, you know, 769 00:37:22,365 --> 00:37:25,535 {\an1}like death or effect that's lifelong. 770 00:37:25,535 --> 00:37:29,205 {\an1}One decision is forever life changing. 771 00:37:29,205 --> 00:37:33,793 {\an1}MARIANA: In truth, there are no known overdose deaths from pure LSD. 772 00:37:33,793 --> 00:37:36,045 {\an1}But that's not to say there's no risk, 773 00:37:36,045 --> 00:37:38,173 {\an1}either from impairment under the influence, 774 00:37:38,173 --> 00:37:41,468 {\an1}or from pre-existing conditions. 775 00:37:42,802 --> 00:37:45,263 {\an1}So before knowing anything about LSD, 776 00:37:45,263 --> 00:37:46,764 {\an1}what were your thoughts? 777 00:37:46,764 --> 00:37:50,351 {\an1}MATT: I mean, drugs, in general, were, were horrible. 778 00:37:50,351 --> 00:37:52,437 {\an1}That's what, that's what my community believes. 779 00:37:52,437 --> 00:37:53,438 {\an1}MARIANA: They don't approve of it? 780 00:37:53,438 --> 00:37:54,522 {\an1}MATT: No, no they don't. 781 00:37:54,522 --> 00:37:55,857 {\an1}We're labeled as drug addicts and, 782 00:37:55,857 --> 00:37:59,235 {\an1}generally bad people because of the choices we make. 783 00:37:59,235 --> 00:38:01,154 {\an1}MARIANA: Have you explained to them what it's done to you? 784 00:38:01,154 --> 00:38:03,698 {\an1}MATT: They don't want to, people don't wanna listen to it. 785 00:38:03,698 --> 00:38:05,950 {\an1}But this truly improved mental health. 786 00:38:05,950 --> 00:38:09,078 {\an1}I take no medication now and I just finished 787 00:38:09,078 --> 00:38:11,164 {\an1}my first semester of college, full-time. 788 00:38:11,164 --> 00:38:13,166 {\an1}And I got 3.85 GPA, so. 789 00:38:13,166 --> 00:38:14,834 {\an1}MARIANA: Nice, congrats. MATT: This is, yeah, thanks. 790 00:38:14,834 --> 00:38:16,878 {\an1}This is, this is doing great things. 791 00:38:16,878 --> 00:38:19,255 {\an1}MARIANA: What are you studying? MATT: I'm studying psychology. 792 00:38:19,255 --> 00:38:21,299 {\an1}MARIANA: Matt still has bad days, 793 00:38:21,299 --> 00:38:25,178 {\an1}but he credits LSD with helping to get his life back on track. 794 00:38:25,178 --> 00:38:27,639 {\an1}And he's not alone. 795 00:38:31,226 --> 00:38:34,270 {\an1}It's these stories of transformation that inspire me 796 00:38:34,270 --> 00:38:38,775 {\an1}to keep looking for one of these ever elusive chemists. 797 00:38:40,818 --> 00:38:43,404 {\an1}Through some mix of persistence and luck, 798 00:38:43,404 --> 00:38:48,660 {\an1}it finally happens in a broken down school bus in Wyoming. 799 00:38:58,127 --> 00:39:04,384 {\an1}♪ ♪ 800 00:39:04,384 --> 00:39:06,719 {\an1}MARIANA: So, how did you become a chemist? 801 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,431 {\an1}CASEY: You know, I took LSD. 802 00:39:10,431 --> 00:39:14,143 {\an1}Changed my life. 803 00:39:14,143 --> 00:39:16,145 {\an1}Set me free. 804 00:39:16,145 --> 00:39:18,106 {\an1}Unleashed my mind. 805 00:39:18,106 --> 00:39:20,358 {\an1}MARIANA: After months of searching for a chemist, 806 00:39:20,358 --> 00:39:23,695 {\an1}I finally found one in Wyoming. 807 00:39:24,988 --> 00:39:27,699 {\an1}Casey Hardison is known in certain circles 808 00:39:27,699 --> 00:39:29,284 {\an1}as a drug wizard. 809 00:39:29,284 --> 00:39:33,663 {\an1}We have spoken to so many people about their first acid trip and 810 00:39:33,663 --> 00:39:35,290 {\an1}I think you're the first person that even 811 00:39:35,290 --> 00:39:37,750 {\an1}gets emotional when you talk about this. 812 00:39:37,750 --> 00:39:41,546 {\an1}Why? 813 00:39:41,546 --> 00:39:43,464 {\an1}CASEY: I experienced freedom. 814 00:39:43,464 --> 00:39:46,676 {\an1}I experienced complete, absolute peace. 815 00:39:46,676 --> 00:39:49,762 {\an1}Complete relief from all of my cares, concerns, 816 00:39:49,762 --> 00:39:51,306 {\an1}and anxieties, and hang-ups, 817 00:39:51,306 --> 00:39:55,810 {\an1}and I had just had an immensely profound spiritual awakening. 818 00:39:55,810 --> 00:39:58,354 {\an1}MARIANA: So, you know how to make every drug out there, right? 819 00:39:58,354 --> 00:40:00,565 {\an1}CASEY: No. But I could, could follow any protocol. 820 00:40:00,565 --> 00:40:01,983 {\an1}MARIANA: Mm-hmm. 821 00:40:01,983 --> 00:40:03,318 {\an1}CASEY: There's no protocol out there that I couldn't, 822 00:40:03,318 --> 00:40:05,612 {\an1}you know, get the equipment, 823 00:40:05,612 --> 00:40:08,948 {\an1}set up the reaction and complete the process. 824 00:40:08,948 --> 00:40:10,575 {\an1}LSD needs a lot more precision. 825 00:40:10,575 --> 00:40:12,619 {\an1}And you also need to know what you're doing. 826 00:40:12,619 --> 00:40:15,538 {\an1}You need to know how to run a laboratory. 827 00:40:16,914 --> 00:40:19,000 {\an1}MARIANA: You were in the UK working? You had a lab in England? 828 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,044 {\an1}CASEY: Yeah. Yeah. 829 00:40:21,044 --> 00:40:22,545 {\an1}Matter of fact, I even said the words to a friend, 830 00:40:22,545 --> 00:40:24,714 {\an1}"I think I'm flying under the radar." 831 00:40:24,714 --> 00:40:26,424 {\an1}MARIANA: Mm-hmm. 832 00:40:26,424 --> 00:40:28,468 {\an1}CASEY: I had no idea that they were out in a field way across 833 00:40:28,468 --> 00:40:32,305 {\an1}from me in a horse box, listening, watching, observing. 834 00:40:32,305 --> 00:40:33,973 {\an1}MARIANA: And then what happened that day? 835 00:40:33,973 --> 00:40:35,350 {\an1}CASEY: I worked in a lab for a while. 836 00:40:35,350 --> 00:40:37,101 {\an1}Then I went up to a bar called The Sanctuary, 837 00:40:37,101 --> 00:40:42,106 {\an1}and they came in, one of the detectives leaned over and said, 838 00:40:42,106 --> 00:40:43,608 {\an1}"I'm here to arrest you for being concerned in 839 00:40:43,608 --> 00:40:45,485 {\an1}the manufacturing of controlled drugs." 840 00:40:45,485 --> 00:40:47,195 {\an1}And I just said, "How do you wanna do it?" 841 00:40:47,195 --> 00:40:50,114 {\an1}You know, I was high, actually, I was on LSD at the time, 842 00:40:50,114 --> 00:40:51,324 {\an1}"As peacefully as possible." 843 00:40:51,324 --> 00:40:53,618 {\an1}I'm like, "That works for me." 844 00:40:53,952 --> 00:40:56,579 {\an1}MARIANA: At the height of your production as a chemist, 845 00:40:56,579 --> 00:40:58,289 {\an1}how much were you making? 846 00:40:58,289 --> 00:41:00,041 {\an1}CASEY: A little under 200 grams. 847 00:41:00,041 --> 00:41:01,125 {\an1}Not a lot, you know. 848 00:41:01,125 --> 00:41:03,211 {\an1}Enough. But not, not, not, not massive. 849 00:41:03,211 --> 00:41:05,838 {\an1}Not like kilos, some other people are doing. 850 00:41:05,838 --> 00:41:07,131 {\an1}MARIANA: And why not? 851 00:41:07,131 --> 00:41:08,966 {\an1}CASEY: Limited ergotamine supplies. 852 00:41:08,966 --> 00:41:11,094 {\an1}MARIANA: So were you doing it for the money, or the ideals? 853 00:41:11,094 --> 00:41:14,722 {\an1}CASEY: Dude, I was doing it for the alchemical adventure. 854 00:41:14,722 --> 00:41:17,016 {\an1}MARIANA: Was there a part of you that was doing it for the money? 855 00:41:17,016 --> 00:41:20,895 {\an1}CASEY: You know, if I worked hard I could make 50,000 a month. 856 00:41:20,895 --> 00:41:23,481 {\an1}Didn't have to work that hard. You know. 857 00:41:23,481 --> 00:41:25,733 {\an1}MARIANA: That's a lot of money. 858 00:41:25,733 --> 00:41:27,944 {\an1}CASEY: Yeah. MARIANA: Was your stuff good? 859 00:41:27,944 --> 00:41:29,570 {\an1}CASEY: My stuff was delicious. 860 00:41:29,570 --> 00:41:31,406 {\an1}You know, smelled like grape popsicles, 861 00:41:31,406 --> 00:41:33,700 {\an1}strangely enough. 862 00:41:33,700 --> 00:41:35,368 {\an1}They say it's odorless, tasteless, colorless. 863 00:41:35,368 --> 00:41:36,953 {\an1}Well it is, and it's a crystal. 864 00:41:36,953 --> 00:41:40,581 {\an1}But as an oil it smells like grape popsicles. 865 00:41:40,581 --> 00:41:42,542 {\an1}MARIANA: So we've been trying to find an LSD chemist to talk 866 00:41:42,542 --> 00:41:45,044 {\an1}to us for months and no one is willing to talk to us. 867 00:41:45,044 --> 00:41:46,921 {\an1}Why do you think that is? 868 00:41:46,921 --> 00:41:50,425 {\an1}CASEY: Life sentences. Federal mandatory minimums. 869 00:41:50,425 --> 00:41:52,468 {\an1}MARIANA: And why are you talking to us? 870 00:41:52,468 --> 00:41:53,761 {\an1}CASEY: 'Cause I'm not practicing. 871 00:41:53,761 --> 00:41:56,097 {\an1}I'm not, uh, I'm not concerned. 872 00:41:56,097 --> 00:41:58,599 {\an1}I've already served my time, done my sentence and I'm, 873 00:41:58,599 --> 00:42:03,271 {\an1}you know, shamelessly, proud of my accomplishments. 874 00:42:03,271 --> 00:42:07,400 {\an1}The war on drugs is a war on people and we can't possibly 875 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:08,860 {\an1}win a war on people. 876 00:42:08,860 --> 00:42:11,571 {\an1}It cost us all that gangster criminal trafficking. 877 00:42:11,571 --> 00:42:13,614 {\an1}Clogs the prison system. 878 00:42:13,614 --> 00:42:15,241 {\an1}It's not working. 879 00:42:15,241 --> 00:42:19,495 {\an1}The idea that you are going to extinguish people's desire 880 00:42:19,495 --> 00:42:22,415 {\an1}to alter their mental functioning is, um, 881 00:42:22,415 --> 00:42:24,625 {\an1}that's the craziest idea ever. 882 00:42:24,625 --> 00:42:27,670 {\an1}MARIANA: I mean, do you think you could put us in touch with a chemist? 883 00:42:27,670 --> 00:42:31,799 {\an1}CASEY: When considering such a question, 884 00:42:31,799 --> 00:42:37,889 {\an1}it brings to mind what I lost in being arrested. 885 00:42:37,889 --> 00:42:40,433 {\an1}I knew my purpose. 886 00:42:40,433 --> 00:42:43,561 {\an1}I knew who I was, what I was up to, 887 00:42:43,561 --> 00:42:47,440 {\an1}and the law took that away. 888 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,151 {\an1}And I'm not sure I wanna risk that for them. 889 00:42:50,151 --> 00:42:51,611 {\an1}That was my greatest joy. 890 00:42:51,611 --> 00:42:55,490 {\an1}And now I can't do the thing I want to do most. 891 00:42:57,241 --> 00:42:59,744 {\an1}I truly believe in the transformation that 892 00:42:59,744 --> 00:43:04,332 {\an1}psychedelics can, can catalyze. 893 00:43:04,332 --> 00:43:08,795 {\an1}And these chemists know that they're making a molecule that 894 00:43:08,795 --> 00:43:11,881 {\an1}causes that transformation. 895 00:43:11,881 --> 00:43:14,842 {\an1}They believe they're making a difference and 896 00:43:14,842 --> 00:43:18,179 {\an1}I don't wanna take that from them. 897 00:43:18,179 --> 00:43:21,182 {\an1}I don't want them to lose that. 898 00:43:21,182 --> 00:43:23,559 {\an1}I lost it. 899 00:43:23,559 --> 00:43:25,645 {\an1}I (bleep) want it back. 900 00:43:25,645 --> 00:43:29,857 {\an1}I want the freedom to alter my mental function as I see fit and 901 00:43:29,857 --> 00:43:33,569 {\an1}to make molecules to help others to do the same. 902 00:43:33,569 --> 00:43:36,239 {\an1}That's all I want. 903 00:43:38,074 --> 00:43:42,578 {\an1}MARIANA: I've met plenty of drug dealers who've done hard time in prison. 904 00:43:42,578 --> 00:43:45,915 {\an1}But I've never seen one weep as he describes being robbed of 905 00:43:45,915 --> 00:43:49,377 {\an1}what he calls his purpose. 906 00:43:50,670 --> 00:43:52,755 {\an1}Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised. 907 00:43:52,755 --> 00:43:55,383 {\an1}After all, indigenous communities have used 908 00:43:55,383 --> 00:43:58,803 {\an1}psychedelics in spiritual and therapeutic ceremonies 909 00:43:58,803 --> 00:44:02,098 {\an1}for thousands of years. 910 00:44:03,349 --> 00:44:06,894 {\an1}Some say it's time for the rest of us to catch up. 911 00:44:06,894 --> 00:44:08,187 {\an1}Captioned by Cotter Media Group.