1 00:00:08,759 --> 00:00:15,557 [shaky breathing] 2 00:00:20,270 --> 00:00:23,607 ♪ I ♪ 3 00:00:23,607 --> 00:00:26,568 ♪ Love ♪ 4 00:00:26,568 --> 00:00:29,780 ♪ You ♪ 5 00:00:30,405 --> 00:00:33,867 ♪ Open up your heart ♪♪ 6 00:00:33,867 --> 00:00:35,661 [Mariana Van Zeller] I've reported on the illegal trade 7 00:00:35,661 --> 00:00:39,039 of human organs in the past. 8 00:00:40,123 --> 00:00:43,043 So I thought I'd seen it all in terms of those making a 9 00:00:43,043 --> 00:00:45,587 killing from body parts. 10 00:00:45,587 --> 00:00:48,840 But recent headlines have identified another unexpected 11 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,260 trade in human remains. 12 00:00:51,260 --> 00:00:52,844 [News Anchor] Illegally selling body parts. 13 00:00:52,844 --> 00:00:55,264 [News Anchor] Arms, legs, heads, torsos. 14 00:00:55,264 --> 00:00:56,932 [Man] Man that is sick. 15 00:00:56,932 --> 00:00:59,142 [Mariana Van Zeller] One that's even stranger and 16 00:00:59,142 --> 00:01:00,769 closer to home. 17 00:01:00,769 --> 00:01:02,688 [News Anchor] Four human skulls in a box. 18 00:01:02,688 --> 00:01:04,523 [News Anchor] Headed for South Carolina. 19 00:01:04,523 --> 00:01:06,233 [Mariana Van Zeller] In the shadows of the legal death 20 00:01:06,233 --> 00:01:10,696 industry, there's a bustling trade in stolen body parts. 21 00:01:11,029 --> 00:01:12,614 [Funeral Director] Human tongue $1,000. 22 00:01:12,614 --> 00:01:14,449 I'm surprised it's that high, cause you could take one of 23 00:01:14,449 --> 00:01:16,451 those pretty easily. 24 00:01:16,451 --> 00:01:18,245 [Mariana Van Zeller] Black market operators are selling 25 00:01:18,245 --> 00:01:22,874 everything from skulls and bones to spines and skin. 26 00:01:23,208 --> 00:01:27,045 [John] This is the remaining portion I have of human skin. 27 00:01:27,045 --> 00:01:29,047 [Mariana Van Zeller] All to the highest bidder. 28 00:01:29,047 --> 00:01:30,382 [Funeral Director] I could bring my lunch box into the 29 00:01:30,632 --> 00:01:33,885 prep room and cut out a kidney and no one would ever know. 30 00:01:34,177 --> 00:01:36,888 [Mariana Van Zeller] It all begs a terrifying question, 31 00:01:36,888 --> 00:01:40,392 what really happens to your body after you die? 32 00:01:41,143 --> 00:01:43,437 ♪ Your heart ♪♪ 33 00:01:43,437 --> 00:01:45,522 [John] Life doesn't end when you're in the ground. 34 00:01:45,522 --> 00:01:47,899 I could carry around a portion of somebody for the next 35 00:01:47,899 --> 00:01:49,401 200, 300 years. 36 00:01:49,401 --> 00:01:51,528 ♪ Love you ♪♪ 37 00:01:52,487 --> 00:01:55,490 [theme music plays] 38 00:02:04,624 --> 00:02:07,586 [jet engine rumbling] 39 00:02:09,713 --> 00:02:10,922 [Mariana Van Zeller] I'm driving through the valleys of 40 00:02:11,340 --> 00:02:15,552 Western Colorado and thinking about the logistics of death. 41 00:02:17,137 --> 00:02:22,142 On paper, what happens to a body after death looks fairly simple: 42 00:02:22,142 --> 00:02:25,145 Typically, the first stop is a funeral home, 43 00:02:25,145 --> 00:02:28,857 where the body is sent to be prepped for cremation or burial. 44 00:02:29,941 --> 00:02:31,610 If, instead, the person has 45 00:02:31,610 --> 00:02:34,196 chosen to donate their body to science, 46 00:02:34,571 --> 00:02:37,282 it goes from the funeral home to a tissue bank 47 00:02:37,282 --> 00:02:39,284 or university donation program 48 00:02:39,284 --> 00:02:43,413 before being used for training, education or research. 49 00:02:45,457 --> 00:02:48,877 But as the people of Montrose, Colorado know all too well, 50 00:02:48,877 --> 00:02:52,547 things don't always go as planned. 51 00:02:53,048 --> 00:02:56,009 [Rick] I get a call from the FBI, they want me to come in 52 00:02:56,009 --> 00:02:58,804 and I'm thinking, "Well what the heck did I do now?" 53 00:02:59,513 --> 00:03:01,765 So I went down to the sheriff's department and I 54 00:03:01,765 --> 00:03:03,934 went in there, and he says, "You might be a victim of," 55 00:03:03,934 --> 00:03:07,354 you know, "cutting up the body parts," and I'm thinking, 56 00:03:07,354 --> 00:03:09,189 "What?" 57 00:03:09,189 --> 00:03:10,774 I've never even heard of that before. 58 00:03:10,774 --> 00:03:13,276 Who does that? 59 00:03:13,568 --> 00:03:15,237 [News Anchor] Tonight a funeral home owner and her 60 00:03:15,237 --> 00:03:18,115 parents now under investigation by the FBI. 61 00:03:18,115 --> 00:03:20,492 [News Anchor] The accusations are outlandish. 62 00:03:20,492 --> 00:03:23,120 [Mariana Van Zeller] As local news reported, Megan Hess and 63 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:24,788 her mother Shirley Koch, 64 00:03:24,788 --> 00:03:27,416 owners of the Sunset Mesa Funeral Home, 65 00:03:27,416 --> 00:03:30,335 were charged with the stealing and selling of body parts 66 00:03:30,335 --> 00:03:33,713 from more than 500 corpses. 67 00:03:33,713 --> 00:03:35,632 [News Anchor] Her organs, from her mother's heart, to liver, 68 00:03:35,632 --> 00:03:37,801 and even her hands and feet were sold 69 00:03:37,801 --> 00:03:39,469 to so-called body brokers. 70 00:03:39,469 --> 00:03:42,681 [Mariana Van Zeller] I want to understand how this grisly 71 00:03:42,681 --> 00:03:46,059 black market works, so I've come to meet with the families 72 00:03:46,059 --> 00:03:48,562 of her victims. 73 00:03:48,562 --> 00:03:50,313 [Candace] My father called me and asked if I had been 74 00:03:50,313 --> 00:03:53,150 watching the news about Sunset Mesa and I hadn't. 75 00:03:53,150 --> 00:03:55,277 [News Anchor] Claims of secretly dismembering and 76 00:03:55,277 --> 00:03:56,903 selling body parts. 77 00:03:56,903 --> 00:03:59,948 [Connie] She came with an SUV, a body bag and a gurney, 78 00:03:59,948 --> 00:04:02,117 and I never called her. 79 00:04:02,117 --> 00:04:03,869 [News Anchor] Federal agents followed and arrested 80 00:04:03,869 --> 00:04:05,829 Meghan Hess and Shirley Koch. 81 00:04:05,829 --> 00:04:07,831 [Debra] She was creepy. 82 00:04:07,831 --> 00:04:12,586 She was very creepy and there were very many red flags. 83 00:04:12,919 --> 00:04:16,673 [Judy] Everybody trusts a funeral home and you can't. 84 00:04:17,382 --> 00:04:19,759 [Mariana Van Zeller] Throughout the investigation, 85 00:04:19,759 --> 00:04:22,762 the victims' families became an informal support group 86 00:04:22,762 --> 00:04:24,556 for each other. 87 00:04:24,556 --> 00:04:26,099 [Candace] Different parts of her were sold and then they 88 00:04:26,099 --> 00:04:30,270 listed the parts, and that was really difficult to hear. 89 00:04:32,772 --> 00:04:38,653 [Diana] Hannah was 23 when she passed away and they sent her 90 00:04:38,653 --> 00:04:42,949 to Sunset Mesa for cremation. 91 00:04:42,949 --> 00:04:45,243 [sighing] 92 00:04:45,243 --> 00:04:48,914 With that in mind, they decided that they would 93 00:04:48,914 --> 00:04:51,583 steal her spine. 94 00:04:52,083 --> 00:04:54,377 She had a beautiful tattoo of Harmony 95 00:04:54,377 --> 00:04:56,671 and her brother and sister on her back. 96 00:04:56,671 --> 00:04:59,966 You know, how do you get a spine out of a 97 00:04:59,966 --> 00:05:03,261 23 year old girl's back? 98 00:05:04,262 --> 00:05:06,723 [Kimberly] That's the nightmares that you live with. 99 00:05:06,723 --> 00:05:10,644 [Rick] Yeah, just picturing everybody here, somebody just 100 00:05:10,644 --> 00:05:13,021 hacking your loved one up. 101 00:05:13,021 --> 00:05:17,442 [Debra] Laura was sold before I got there to 102 00:05:17,442 --> 00:05:19,110 make the arrangements. 103 00:05:19,110 --> 00:05:20,654 [Mariana Van Zeller] Within 24 hours? 104 00:05:20,654 --> 00:05:24,699 [Debra] Less, she was gone. 105 00:05:26,451 --> 00:05:28,370 [Mariana Van Zeller] To be clear, with consent, 106 00:05:28,370 --> 00:05:31,665 the selling of corpses and body parts in the United States, 107 00:05:31,665 --> 00:05:35,418 by tissue banks or universities after they've used them for 108 00:05:35,418 --> 00:05:38,672 their initial purpose, is completely legal. 109 00:05:40,465 --> 00:05:44,427 What's illegal is charging up to $1000 for cremations 110 00:05:44,427 --> 00:05:46,888 that never took place. 111 00:05:46,888 --> 00:05:49,724 Secretly dismembering the bodies and selling the most 112 00:05:49,724 --> 00:05:52,852 valuable parts to customers. 113 00:05:53,728 --> 00:05:59,234 Buyers were charged $300 for a spine, $500 for a head, 114 00:05:59,234 --> 00:06:04,072 more than $1,200 for a pelvis with upper legs and they had 115 00:06:04,072 --> 00:06:07,075 no responsibility to check that the bodies had been 116 00:06:07,075 --> 00:06:09,703 donated willingly. 117 00:06:09,703 --> 00:06:13,748 All told, Hess netted $1.2 million. 118 00:06:16,918 --> 00:06:19,880 To cover her tracks, she returned fake ashes to the 119 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,258 families, a scheme that was exposed by former employees 120 00:06:23,258 --> 00:06:24,926 of the funeral home. 121 00:06:24,926 --> 00:06:27,137 [News Anchor] Instead of cremains their cherished boxes 122 00:06:27,137 --> 00:06:30,307 contained cement, sand and what appeared to be, 123 00:06:30,307 --> 00:06:32,475 old batteries. 124 00:06:32,475 --> 00:06:34,686 [Debra] So nobody got their loved ones back. 125 00:06:34,686 --> 00:06:36,146 Nobody. 126 00:06:36,146 --> 00:06:40,066 They just mixed them all together with trash. 127 00:06:46,948 --> 00:06:50,118 [Paul Johnson] Megan Hess ran a funeral home and she ran a 128 00:06:50,118 --> 00:06:53,538 body donation business out of the same building. 129 00:06:53,538 --> 00:06:54,998 That's the problem with this industry; 130 00:06:54,998 --> 00:06:56,416 it can be done legally, 131 00:06:56,416 --> 00:06:58,960 it can be done lawfully, it can be done ethically. 132 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:03,006 But right now that depends on the personal ethics of 133 00:07:03,006 --> 00:07:04,716 the people running these businesses. 134 00:07:04,716 --> 00:07:07,844 Oversight from the government is truly lacking. 135 00:07:08,261 --> 00:07:10,055 [Mariana Van Zeller] Paul Micah Johnson was the lead 136 00:07:10,055 --> 00:07:14,643 agent on the FBI investigation that busted Hess and her mother. 137 00:07:14,643 --> 00:07:15,894 [Paul Johnson] At the risk of getting a little bit 138 00:07:15,894 --> 00:07:18,396 philosophical, I think that most of us are 139 00:07:18,396 --> 00:07:20,482 uncomfortable with death. 140 00:07:20,482 --> 00:07:26,571 So that industry that requires dead bodies is something that 141 00:07:26,571 --> 00:07:30,950 most people don't think about and don't want to think about. 142 00:07:30,950 --> 00:07:35,038 And because of that, there's lots of room for things to 143 00:07:35,038 --> 00:07:36,706 go on unnoticed. 144 00:07:36,706 --> 00:07:39,125 [Mariana Van Zeller] The U.S. stands out for allowing a 145 00:07:39,125 --> 00:07:41,670 for-profit trade in human remains 146 00:07:41,670 --> 00:07:44,005 with very little regulation. 147 00:07:44,005 --> 00:07:48,927 That combo has made the U.S. the wild west of body parts. 148 00:07:49,761 --> 00:07:52,597 As agent Johnson saw first-hand in a case that 149 00:07:52,597 --> 00:07:55,392 became a sensation in the Detroit area. 150 00:07:56,267 --> 00:07:58,311 [News Anchor] Arthur Rathburn accused of buying, storing, 151 00:07:58,311 --> 00:08:01,523 selling and renting diseased human body parts to doctors. 152 00:08:01,523 --> 00:08:04,109 Body parts from more than 1,000 different people, 153 00:08:04,109 --> 00:08:05,318 heads, arms, legs. 154 00:08:05,568 --> 00:08:08,321 [Paul Johnson] He had dozens of freezers filled with 155 00:08:08,321 --> 00:08:11,700 human remains, often unwrapped, 156 00:08:11,700 --> 00:08:13,618 piled directly on top of each other, 157 00:08:13,618 --> 00:08:14,953 frozen together. 158 00:08:14,953 --> 00:08:16,579 He had a regular refrigerator 159 00:08:16,579 --> 00:08:19,207 and in that there was a human head, 160 00:08:19,207 --> 00:08:21,000 as well as some of his food, 161 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,712 a sandwich was in there near a human head. 162 00:08:23,712 --> 00:08:27,799 A metal container that had four human fetuses, 163 00:08:27,799 --> 00:08:31,845 mixed in with floating slices of human brain. 164 00:08:32,387 --> 00:08:36,641 His warehouse was the... something of nightmares. 165 00:08:37,392 --> 00:08:39,853 [Mariana Van Zeller] Rathburn was an extreme case, but 166 00:08:39,853 --> 00:08:43,773 Johnson says he's seen abuse all over, at funeral homes, 167 00:08:43,773 --> 00:08:46,943 in the university donation programs and at 168 00:08:46,943 --> 00:08:50,363 both for-profit and nonprofit tissue banks. 169 00:08:50,363 --> 00:08:52,866 [Paul Johnson] Just like any other illegal activity the 170 00:08:52,866 --> 00:08:54,743 primary incentive is money. 171 00:08:54,743 --> 00:08:57,996 So, it comes down to greed. 172 00:09:03,126 --> 00:09:04,753 [Mariana Van Zeller] It's a chilling assessment, and as 173 00:09:04,753 --> 00:09:08,381 my investigation takes me to Arizona, it's time to find the 174 00:09:08,381 --> 00:09:12,218 folks who see the dead as dollar signs. 175 00:09:17,766 --> 00:09:22,020 [wind blowing] 176 00:09:27,650 --> 00:09:29,444 [Garland Shreves] Most people, when they think of whole body 177 00:09:29,444 --> 00:09:32,530 donation, they don't really realize the impact that it has 178 00:09:32,530 --> 00:09:35,700 on medicine, and society as a whole. 179 00:09:35,700 --> 00:09:38,244 Whole body donation saves more lives in this country, 180 00:09:38,244 --> 00:09:42,540 every single year, than transplant donation, 181 00:09:42,540 --> 00:09:45,794 than all the lives saved put together by transplant 182 00:09:45,794 --> 00:09:48,254 since transplant began. 183 00:09:48,254 --> 00:09:50,715 Because you couldn't have the medicine we do today, 184 00:09:50,715 --> 00:09:52,759 the advancements in medicine we do today, 185 00:09:52,759 --> 00:09:55,011 if it were not for donors. 186 00:09:55,011 --> 00:09:56,513 [Mariana Van Zeller] To understand the criminal 187 00:09:56,513 --> 00:09:59,098 possibilities of this trade, I need to see how the 188 00:09:59,098 --> 00:10:01,810 legitimate side of the industry works. 189 00:10:02,227 --> 00:10:04,479 Research for Life is a tissue bank 190 00:10:04,479 --> 00:10:07,190 that depends on body donations. 191 00:10:07,190 --> 00:10:10,652 It's run by Garland Shreves, who works alongside his wife 192 00:10:10,652 --> 00:10:12,654 and some of his children. 193 00:10:12,654 --> 00:10:13,655 [Garland Shreves] Research for Life is a 194 00:10:13,655 --> 00:10:15,281 whole body donor organization. 195 00:10:15,281 --> 00:10:20,370 Donors benefit either medical education or research. 196 00:10:20,370 --> 00:10:22,664 [Mariana Van Zeller] Shreves is opening his doors to us 197 00:10:22,664 --> 00:10:25,291 because he believes in transparency of a process 198 00:10:25,291 --> 00:10:28,670 that some might find disturbing. 199 00:10:29,546 --> 00:10:31,339 What does your family say about your job? 200 00:10:31,339 --> 00:10:32,507 [Hayley] They never want to talk about it. 201 00:10:32,924 --> 00:10:35,176 You know, the first, the first six months they didn't hear, 202 00:10:35,176 --> 00:10:36,469 they didn't want to hear a singular thing. 203 00:10:36,469 --> 00:10:37,720 [Mariana Van Zeller] Really? 204 00:10:38,012 --> 00:10:40,140 If you're dealing with an ethically-run company, this is 205 00:10:40,140 --> 00:10:43,810 what body donation looks like behind the scenes. 206 00:10:46,354 --> 00:10:48,273 [Mariana Van Zeller] When a body arrives it's kept in 207 00:10:48,273 --> 00:10:51,442 cold storage before the "procurement process" where 208 00:10:51,442 --> 00:10:54,571 the body is cut up into smaller pieces for sale 209 00:10:54,571 --> 00:10:56,406 around the world. 210 00:10:56,406 --> 00:10:58,950 [Hayley] And then this is to tag so we can identify the donor. 211 00:10:58,950 --> 00:11:00,076 [Mariana Van Zeller] Mm-hmm. 212 00:11:00,076 --> 00:11:02,162 [Hayley] Once we ship out the tissue. 213 00:11:02,871 --> 00:11:05,081 [Mariana Van Zeller] This leg, for example, might be sent to 214 00:11:05,081 --> 00:11:08,376 a medical device company or an orthopedic surgeon needing 215 00:11:08,376 --> 00:11:10,503 a practice specimen. 216 00:11:16,467 --> 00:11:19,679 [Garland Shreves] You may ask me any question that you like, 217 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:21,556 but you're not going to see any blood, or gore, 218 00:11:21,556 --> 00:11:23,808 or anything of that nature. 219 00:11:23,808 --> 00:11:25,727 [Mariana Van Zeller] Garland Shreves opens his doors 220 00:11:25,727 --> 00:11:28,730 several times a year to people who are considering donating 221 00:11:28,730 --> 00:11:31,232 their bodies to medical research. 222 00:11:31,232 --> 00:11:33,234 [Cheryl] What's under the, the blue tarps here? 223 00:11:33,234 --> 00:11:36,487 [Garland Shreves] This tag tells me it's a torso, 224 00:11:36,487 --> 00:11:38,031 it's a human torso. 225 00:11:38,031 --> 00:11:39,782 [Mariana Van Zeller] Tissue banks like Research for Life 226 00:11:39,782 --> 00:11:43,620 provide the cadavers needed for vital hands-on training. 227 00:11:43,912 --> 00:11:46,915 Everything from hip-replacement practice for surgeons, 228 00:11:46,915 --> 00:11:50,251 to teaching first-responders how to intubate patients 229 00:11:50,251 --> 00:11:52,962 relies on body donation. 230 00:11:52,962 --> 00:11:54,464 [Medic] Remember you don't want to suction for more than 231 00:11:54,464 --> 00:11:57,842 10 seconds because you're taking the air out of their body. 232 00:11:58,384 --> 00:12:00,511 [Garland Shreves] When we are notified that a donor is in 233 00:12:00,511 --> 00:12:02,639 route, they're going to come up a ramp, and they're going 234 00:12:02,639 --> 00:12:06,142 to go directly into this refrigerator, that will reduce 235 00:12:06,142 --> 00:12:08,811 the rate of decomposition. 236 00:12:08,811 --> 00:12:11,481 So you can come over and you guys can take a look inside. 237 00:12:11,481 --> 00:12:12,523 [Cheryl] Are we going in? 238 00:12:13,024 --> 00:12:13,942 [Garland Shreves] You can go in if that's what you like. 239 00:12:13,942 --> 00:12:15,652 [Cheryl] Oh yeah, okay. 240 00:12:15,652 --> 00:12:16,611 [Garland Shreves] You can see them right there. 241 00:12:16,611 --> 00:12:18,029 [Cheryl] I saw enough! 242 00:12:18,029 --> 00:12:19,364 [laughing] 243 00:12:19,614 --> 00:12:21,491 [Mariana Van Zeller] Shreves' business depends on finding 244 00:12:21,491 --> 00:12:25,161 people willing to donate their bodies for free, so he's eager 245 00:12:25,161 --> 00:12:28,581 to show these potential donors the care they take in each 246 00:12:28,581 --> 00:12:30,917 step of the process. 247 00:12:30,917 --> 00:12:32,961 [Cheryl] Are these, like, all the same body parts? 248 00:12:32,961 --> 00:12:34,879 [Garland Shreves] They're different body parts. 249 00:12:34,879 --> 00:12:37,590 This is a mid-forearm to fingertip. 250 00:12:37,590 --> 00:12:39,008 It's got a donor number on it. 251 00:12:39,008 --> 00:12:40,009 You see that? 252 00:12:40,301 --> 00:12:41,552 Everything is tagged, everything is marked, 253 00:12:41,552 --> 00:12:42,929 where it came from. 254 00:12:42,929 --> 00:12:44,264 How it can be used. 255 00:12:44,264 --> 00:12:45,682 A reminder that it has to be treated with 256 00:12:45,682 --> 00:12:48,309 dignity and respect. 257 00:12:50,144 --> 00:12:52,146 [Paul Johnson] There is a lot more that is legal 258 00:12:52,146 --> 00:12:54,774 than is illegal in this industry. 259 00:12:54,774 --> 00:12:59,070 It doesn't matter if people are trading bones, or tissues, 260 00:12:59,070 --> 00:13:01,114 or pieces of brain. 261 00:13:01,114 --> 00:13:04,659 The buying and selling of body parts is completely legal at 262 00:13:04,659 --> 00:13:06,035 the federal level. 263 00:13:06,035 --> 00:13:08,121 Completely. 264 00:13:09,956 --> 00:13:11,457 [Mariana Van Zeller] That's what's so different about the 265 00:13:11,457 --> 00:13:14,043 body parts trade than other trafficking stories 266 00:13:14,043 --> 00:13:15,670 I've covered. 267 00:13:15,670 --> 00:13:18,798 The bad actors are often part of the legal industry because, 268 00:13:18,798 --> 00:13:22,510 just like body-donation businesses, the criminal trade 269 00:13:22,510 --> 00:13:26,472 depends on access to body parts. 270 00:13:26,472 --> 00:13:28,766 That's why Megan Hess's funeral home was 271 00:13:28,766 --> 00:13:31,310 the perfect cover. 272 00:13:31,310 --> 00:13:34,022 As I try to find an active player, I cross reference 273 00:13:34,022 --> 00:13:37,734 complaints and citations against other funeral homes 274 00:13:37,734 --> 00:13:39,485 and tissue banks. 275 00:13:39,485 --> 00:13:42,780 I search Yelp reviews looking for suspicious anecdotes. 276 00:13:42,780 --> 00:13:46,159 And I reach out to dozens of people in the industry. 277 00:13:46,159 --> 00:13:48,077 You worked in the tissue bank industry 278 00:13:48,077 --> 00:13:49,537 for many years, correct? 279 00:13:49,537 --> 00:13:51,205 [Funeral Worker] About 30 years. 280 00:13:51,664 --> 00:13:53,458 [Funeral Director] No one would bat any eye even if I 281 00:13:53,458 --> 00:13:56,878 was working on a body and it had a huge chunk of skin missing. 282 00:13:56,878 --> 00:14:01,007 Human skin sells pretty frequently and it's expensive. 283 00:14:01,340 --> 00:14:02,842 [Mariana Van Zeller] Which body parts were they? 284 00:14:02,842 --> 00:14:05,511 [Funeral Worker] Arms, feet, legs. 285 00:14:05,511 --> 00:14:06,679 [phone line ringing] 286 00:14:07,221 --> 00:14:08,848 [Colton Clouse] I know that a lot of samples that we have 287 00:14:08,848 --> 00:14:12,769 come across have been old retired medical specimens. 288 00:14:12,769 --> 00:14:15,188 So, various colleges use them. 289 00:14:15,188 --> 00:14:18,900 They usually get them from mortuaries, or tissue banks, 290 00:14:18,900 --> 00:14:20,818 or stuff like that. 291 00:14:20,818 --> 00:14:22,403 [Mariana Van Zeller] I know this is always, you know, 292 00:14:22,403 --> 00:14:25,823 kind of a complicated, question, 293 00:14:25,823 --> 00:14:28,326 but if you think you could share any contacts. 294 00:14:28,326 --> 00:14:29,994 We know there's a lot of people out there that know 295 00:14:29,994 --> 00:14:33,247 a lot of stuff and don't want to talk about it. 296 00:14:33,831 --> 00:14:35,958 [Funeral Director] Um... 297 00:14:36,709 --> 00:14:39,837 [Mariana Van Zeller] Eventually, I catch a break. 298 00:14:46,094 --> 00:14:52,850 [♪ spooky ambient music] 299 00:14:55,144 --> 00:14:57,522 It's been a really hard one to crack, 300 00:14:57,522 --> 00:14:59,065 just no one wants to talk. 301 00:14:59,065 --> 00:15:02,360 It's a very sort of secretive and closed community. 302 00:15:03,528 --> 00:15:05,738 Most people that we spoke to said that they are afraid that 303 00:15:05,738 --> 00:15:08,616 even if we put a mask on them and disguise their voice that 304 00:15:08,616 --> 00:15:11,786 they think that everyone will know who they are. 305 00:15:12,328 --> 00:15:13,996 So, we're meeting this guy 306 00:15:13,996 --> 00:15:15,289 that I've spoken to on the phone, 307 00:15:15,289 --> 00:15:16,833 he's a funeral director. 308 00:15:16,833 --> 00:15:19,001 He agreed mainly because we're meeting in sort of an 309 00:15:19,001 --> 00:15:21,754 undisclosed location. 310 00:15:22,797 --> 00:15:25,758 He says he also has some stuff that he wants to show us. 311 00:15:26,217 --> 00:15:29,220 I'm quite curious to know what that is. 312 00:15:30,471 --> 00:15:33,224 This is it, this is the motel. 313 00:15:36,853 --> 00:15:40,273 [turn signal clicking] 314 00:15:49,699 --> 00:15:53,202 [♪ ambient music] 315 00:16:01,794 --> 00:16:03,963 [Mariana Van Zeller] Um, did you hear about the Megan Hess 316 00:16:03,963 --> 00:16:05,173 case in Colorado? 317 00:16:05,173 --> 00:16:06,340 [Funeral Director] I did. I did. 318 00:16:06,716 --> 00:16:07,425 [Mariana Van Zeller] Do you think that's happening right now 319 00:16:07,717 --> 00:16:08,968 in other places across America? 320 00:16:08,968 --> 00:16:10,219 [Funeral Director] Yes. Yes. 321 00:16:10,219 --> 00:16:11,262 [Mariana Van Zeller] For sure? 322 00:16:11,262 --> 00:16:12,680 [Funeral Director] Yes. 323 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:13,681 [Mariana Van Zeller] Okay. 324 00:16:14,098 --> 00:16:15,766 [Funeral Director] It's happening. It's happening. 325 00:16:15,766 --> 00:16:18,060 It's too easy to not happen. 326 00:16:18,060 --> 00:16:19,854 [exhales] 327 00:16:19,854 --> 00:16:21,647 [Mariana Van Zeller] When and, I guess, why did you become a 328 00:16:21,647 --> 00:16:23,399 funeral director? 329 00:16:23,399 --> 00:16:26,194 [Funeral Director] Because I knew that I could and I know 330 00:16:26,194 --> 00:16:28,779 that a lot of people can't, or aren't willing to. 331 00:16:28,779 --> 00:16:31,365 'Cause it's disgusting and it's very hard work. 332 00:16:31,365 --> 00:16:33,075 I was responsible for everything, so basically 333 00:16:33,075 --> 00:16:34,827 any aspect that you can think of. 334 00:16:34,827 --> 00:16:36,078 [Mariana Van Zeller] So you're talking in the past tense, 335 00:16:36,078 --> 00:16:37,747 are you not a funeral director anymore? 336 00:16:37,747 --> 00:16:39,749 [Funeral Director] I still have my license, but I have 337 00:16:39,749 --> 00:16:41,500 left that business, 338 00:16:41,500 --> 00:16:43,961 just because I think it's too ugly for me. 339 00:16:43,961 --> 00:16:48,132 We're overworked, we are horribly underpaid and 340 00:16:48,132 --> 00:16:52,929 eventually just spending most of your time with dead people 341 00:16:52,929 --> 00:16:56,349 instead of living ones, it's not a fun job. 342 00:16:56,807 --> 00:16:58,517 [Mariana Van Zeller] This is a really difficult story and 343 00:16:58,517 --> 00:17:00,603 it's been really hard to get people to talk to us. 344 00:17:00,603 --> 00:17:01,479 [Funeral Director] Yes. 345 00:17:02,230 --> 00:17:02,939 [Mariana Van Zeller] So, I'd love to hear from you some of 346 00:17:03,856 --> 00:17:05,733 the darkest things that you've seen in this industry and the 347 00:17:05,733 --> 00:17:07,902 things that you think shouldn't exist. 348 00:17:07,902 --> 00:17:10,071 [Funeral Director] First and foremost, it is far too easy 349 00:17:10,071 --> 00:17:15,952 to get away with theft um, of either personal effects, 350 00:17:15,952 --> 00:17:19,080 or body parts in the funeral business. 351 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,958 There are plenty of opportunities, if someone 352 00:17:21,958 --> 00:17:25,253 were so inclined to go in there with a scalpel, or not even 353 00:17:25,253 --> 00:17:28,589 necessarily in the case of an autopsy, all of the organs are 354 00:17:28,589 --> 00:17:31,801 conveniently presented to us in a bag. 355 00:17:31,801 --> 00:17:33,302 [Mariana Van Zeller] What would a person do with a bag 356 00:17:33,302 --> 00:17:36,097 full of someone's insides. 357 00:17:36,097 --> 00:17:37,640 [Funeral Director] If they were so inclined, they could 358 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,519 make wet specimens, put them in a jar, fix them with 359 00:17:41,519 --> 00:17:46,065 formaldehyde or alcohol and um, sell them. 360 00:17:46,065 --> 00:17:47,066 [Mariana Van Zeller] So there's a market? 361 00:17:47,316 --> 00:17:48,818 [Funeral Director] There is a market, yes, yes. 362 00:17:48,818 --> 00:17:50,069 [Mariana Van Zeller] You could do that and it would be 363 00:17:50,069 --> 00:17:51,862 totally legal for you to do that? 364 00:17:51,862 --> 00:17:54,240 [Funeral Director] It would not be legal to take the organ, 365 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,785 but it is legal to buy, sell and trade organs in 366 00:17:57,785 --> 00:18:00,121 47 of the 50 states. 367 00:18:00,121 --> 00:18:01,289 [Mariana Van Zeller] And it sells for good money? 368 00:18:01,289 --> 00:18:02,790 Like there's an incentive for this? 369 00:18:02,790 --> 00:18:05,209 [Funeral Director] Oh yeah, it can be very profitable. 370 00:18:05,209 --> 00:18:09,880 For example, this is my pen. 371 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:11,007 [Mariana Van Zeller] Okay. 372 00:18:11,340 --> 00:18:12,508 [Funeral Director] And inside that pen is a slice of 373 00:18:12,508 --> 00:18:14,427 human brain. 374 00:18:14,427 --> 00:18:17,305 And I've seen the brain that this slice came from. 375 00:18:17,305 --> 00:18:19,056 [Mariana Van Zeller] Oh my God. 376 00:18:19,056 --> 00:18:20,975 [Funeral Director] This was legal for me to buy, 377 00:18:20,975 --> 00:18:22,977 perfectly legal. 378 00:18:22,977 --> 00:18:24,312 -Can I see it? -Absolutely. 379 00:18:24,562 --> 00:18:25,730 [Mariana Van Zeller] So, this is a little piece of brain? 380 00:18:25,730 --> 00:18:27,315 [Funeral Director] Yes, it is. 381 00:18:27,315 --> 00:18:28,274 [Mariana Van Zeller] A human brain? 382 00:18:28,274 --> 00:18:29,650 [Funeral Director] Yes. Yes. 383 00:18:29,650 --> 00:18:31,610 -Wow. -Yeah. 384 00:18:31,610 --> 00:18:33,112 [Mariana Van Zeller] And where do you buy it from? 385 00:18:33,112 --> 00:18:35,865 [Funeral Director] Facebook or Instagram. 386 00:18:35,865 --> 00:18:39,368 This was a woman who got access to some brains from 387 00:18:39,368 --> 00:18:40,745 a medical collection. 388 00:18:40,745 --> 00:18:41,787 [Mariana Van Zeller] Mm-hmm. 389 00:18:42,330 --> 00:18:43,164 [Funeral Director] And I took the time to slice 'em up and 390 00:18:43,164 --> 00:18:44,665 make these pens. 391 00:18:44,665 --> 00:18:46,250 [Mariana Van Zeller] Why did you buy it? 392 00:18:46,250 --> 00:18:49,128 [Funeral Director] Uh, I am involved in this trade because 393 00:18:49,128 --> 00:18:52,882 I'm also a collector of oddities and most people 394 00:18:52,882 --> 00:18:55,718 don't have a piece of human brain sitting on their desk. 395 00:18:55,718 --> 00:18:56,802 [Mariana Van Zeller] Mm-hmm. 396 00:18:57,178 --> 00:18:58,095 [Funeral Director] And I just think it's interesting. 397 00:18:58,638 --> 00:19:01,557 [Mariana Van Zeller] And in the case where they are 398 00:19:01,557 --> 00:19:03,309 body parts that are taken, 399 00:19:03,309 --> 00:19:05,686 where do you think those are ending up? 400 00:19:05,686 --> 00:19:08,064 [Funeral Director] Private groups for buying, selling 401 00:19:08,064 --> 00:19:10,316 and trading oddities. 402 00:19:10,316 --> 00:19:12,902 Skin for example, you can get away with selling, like, 403 00:19:12,902 --> 00:19:14,070 on Facebook. 404 00:19:14,070 --> 00:19:15,404 [Mariana Van Zeller] Openly? 405 00:19:15,654 --> 00:19:17,740 Like if I go on Facebook right now I'm going to see people 406 00:19:17,740 --> 00:19:18,866 selling this stuff? 407 00:19:18,866 --> 00:19:19,992 [Funeral Director] No. 408 00:19:20,493 --> 00:19:21,952 You would need to be part of a private group, or they're not 409 00:19:21,952 --> 00:19:24,121 going to let you in. 410 00:19:24,580 --> 00:19:26,082 [Mariana Van Zeller] The oddities market can mean 411 00:19:26,082 --> 00:19:30,419 anything from animal taxidermy, to antique medical tools, 412 00:19:30,419 --> 00:19:32,797 to human remains. 413 00:19:33,547 --> 00:19:37,051 And it represents another ecosystem of buyers for those 414 00:19:37,051 --> 00:19:40,763 with legal, or illegal body parts to sell. 415 00:19:41,555 --> 00:19:44,934 He agrees to show me the private marketplaces, so I can 416 00:19:44,934 --> 00:19:49,563 see just how easy it is to pick up body parts in the U.S. 417 00:19:49,897 --> 00:19:51,607 [Funeral Director] There we go. 418 00:19:51,607 --> 00:19:52,942 [Mariana Van Zeller] Oh, my god. 419 00:19:52,942 --> 00:19:54,652 Do you think this is human skin? 420 00:19:54,652 --> 00:19:55,986 [Funeral Director] I mean, yeah. 421 00:19:56,237 --> 00:20:00,241 A human skin wallet for $2500 that is on par with what the 422 00:20:00,241 --> 00:20:02,368 price should be. 423 00:20:02,368 --> 00:20:04,161 [Mariana Van Zeller] So, in this case, this person is 424 00:20:04,161 --> 00:20:08,207 selling a skeleton, and it's, U.S. only, 425 00:20:08,207 --> 00:20:11,627 and he's selling it for $4,650? 426 00:20:11,627 --> 00:20:13,754 [Funeral Director] Yeah. Yeah, very lucrative. 427 00:20:13,754 --> 00:20:16,507 [Mariana Van Zeller] Late 19th century scientific 428 00:20:16,507 --> 00:20:18,509 skelly medical model. 429 00:20:18,509 --> 00:20:20,886 Is that what they say a lot, that this is old? 430 00:20:20,886 --> 00:20:22,847 [Funeral Director] Yeah, they'll often claim that 431 00:20:22,847 --> 00:20:26,434 things are usually around 100 years old, so that they're 432 00:20:26,434 --> 00:20:30,187 minimizing any risk in case they are selling something 433 00:20:30,187 --> 00:20:32,523 that is fresh and therefore much more likely to be 434 00:20:32,523 --> 00:20:34,608 illegally taken. 435 00:20:34,608 --> 00:20:36,026 [Mariana Van Zeller] Uterus. 436 00:20:36,026 --> 00:20:38,237 [Funeral Director] Yeah, a dissected human uterus. 437 00:20:38,237 --> 00:20:39,363 Yeah. 438 00:20:39,363 --> 00:20:40,781 [Mariana Van Zeller] $40. 439 00:20:40,781 --> 00:20:42,825 And a tongue goes for $1,100? 440 00:20:42,825 --> 00:20:44,827 [Funeral Director] $1,000, I'm surprised it's that high, 441 00:20:44,827 --> 00:20:47,121 'cause you could take one of those pretty easily. 442 00:20:47,121 --> 00:20:48,914 [Mariana Van Zeller] Oh, my God. 443 00:20:48,914 --> 00:20:51,041 This is so (bleep) crazy. 444 00:20:51,625 --> 00:20:53,794 So, this is skin with tattoos, 445 00:20:53,794 --> 00:20:55,629 how does a person procure one of these? 446 00:20:55,629 --> 00:20:57,214 How do you get it? 447 00:20:57,214 --> 00:20:59,467 [Funeral Director] So that, that seems to be in good shape, 448 00:20:59,467 --> 00:21:01,343 it's obviously not very old. 449 00:21:01,343 --> 00:21:04,305 It's not all dried and worn out, looks like there's still 450 00:21:04,305 --> 00:21:06,056 some hair on it. 451 00:21:06,056 --> 00:21:06,974 [Mariana Van Zeller] Yeah, this person asks, 452 00:21:07,391 --> 00:21:08,809 "Is this real human skin? How do you get this? 453 00:21:08,809 --> 00:21:10,269 I'm intrigued." 454 00:21:10,269 --> 00:21:11,270 And then there was no answer. 455 00:21:11,854 --> 00:21:12,730 [Funeral Director] Yeah, good luck getting an answer to that. 456 00:21:13,481 --> 00:21:15,024 This is one of those examples where I think that it would 457 00:21:15,024 --> 00:21:18,235 have come from maybe an autopsy case. 458 00:21:18,235 --> 00:21:20,446 A piece of skin could just be taken off a body when no one 459 00:21:20,446 --> 00:21:22,031 would know the difference. 460 00:21:22,031 --> 00:21:23,240 [Mariana Van Zeller] So illegally in that case? 461 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:24,325 [Funeral Director] Yes, yeah, yeah. 462 00:21:24,867 --> 00:21:26,994 I can't imagine how this would have been obtained otherwise. 463 00:21:26,994 --> 00:21:30,414 [Mariana Van Zeller] That is so crazy. 464 00:21:30,414 --> 00:21:32,416 So, if we're looking for some of the bad actors in this 465 00:21:32,416 --> 00:21:35,544 market place, do you think this is a good place for us to start? 466 00:21:35,544 --> 00:21:38,005 [Funeral Director] So, I'm going to see how many people 467 00:21:38,005 --> 00:21:40,382 in this group might actually be, like, 468 00:21:40,382 --> 00:21:42,092 funeral professionals or coroners, 469 00:21:42,092 --> 00:21:47,973 so we can search the members for... let's do 'coroner'. 470 00:21:49,975 --> 00:21:52,311 [Mariana Van Zeller] Wow, licensed funeral director, 471 00:21:52,311 --> 00:21:54,188 deputy coroner, 472 00:21:54,188 --> 00:21:57,858 so people who have access to body parts and bodies. 473 00:21:57,858 --> 00:22:00,027 [Funeral Director] Yeah, yeah, there are a number of 474 00:22:00,027 --> 00:22:01,862 professionals in here. 475 00:22:01,862 --> 00:22:03,822 [Mariana Van Zeller] You weren't expecting that? 476 00:22:03,822 --> 00:22:05,741 [Funeral Director] Yeah, I mean, it's just, 477 00:22:05,741 --> 00:22:07,493 it's kind of weird to think about. 478 00:22:07,493 --> 00:22:08,744 These are also people who... 479 00:22:08,744 --> 00:22:10,496 [Mariana Van Zeller] Have access. 480 00:22:10,496 --> 00:22:11,956 [Funeral Director] Who would have access to getting skin or 481 00:22:11,956 --> 00:22:13,958 organs and then being able to sell them. 482 00:22:13,958 --> 00:22:16,126 Yeah, and I'm sure some of them are the people 483 00:22:16,126 --> 00:22:17,628 who do that. 484 00:22:17,628 --> 00:22:19,547 [Mariana Van Zeller] That's so creepy. 485 00:22:20,422 --> 00:22:22,424 In terms of the oddities market, 486 00:22:22,424 --> 00:22:24,301 you know some of the big players. 487 00:22:24,301 --> 00:22:25,135 [Funeral Director] I do. 488 00:22:25,511 --> 00:22:27,096 [Mariana Van Zeller] That you believe are 489 00:22:27,096 --> 00:22:28,514 acquiring these illegally. 490 00:22:28,514 --> 00:22:29,640 [Funeral Director] Yes. 491 00:22:30,057 --> 00:22:31,016 [Mariana Van Zeller] Do you think they would talk to us? 492 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,394 Do you think you could try to get us in touch with them? 493 00:22:33,394 --> 00:22:35,312 [Funeral Director] I think that it's pretty unlikely. 494 00:22:35,312 --> 00:22:38,649 These are people who are breaking the law and I think 495 00:22:38,649 --> 00:22:43,571 would go to um, great lengths to not get caught. 496 00:22:44,071 --> 00:22:48,033 But I do believe that a lot of the human bones on the market 497 00:22:48,033 --> 00:22:51,912 right now are brought in illegally from other countries. 498 00:22:51,912 --> 00:22:53,831 I know that some come in from China and I know that some 499 00:22:53,831 --> 00:22:56,166 come in from Mexico. 500 00:22:56,709 --> 00:22:59,837 That's just grave robbing, really, is what it is. 501 00:23:02,006 --> 00:23:03,632 [Mariana Van Zeller] So, you think grave robbing is 502 00:23:03,632 --> 00:23:05,759 actually happening? 503 00:23:06,135 --> 00:23:07,803 [Funeral Director] I think that a lot of the bones that 504 00:23:07,803 --> 00:23:10,931 are bought and sold in the United States were pulled out 505 00:23:10,931 --> 00:23:13,100 of the ground in another country. 506 00:23:13,100 --> 00:23:14,602 [Mariana Van Zeller] Oh. 507 00:23:26,572 --> 00:23:32,161 [♪ twangy music] 508 00:23:32,161 --> 00:23:36,165 [sirens] 509 00:23:36,165 --> 00:23:42,546 [singing in foreign language] 510 00:23:44,506 --> 00:23:45,633 [Mariana Van Zeller] Okay so, I think we're actually getting 511 00:23:45,633 --> 00:23:47,301 pretty close. 512 00:23:47,301 --> 00:23:50,054 They've told us we can't go in through the main gate, 513 00:23:50,054 --> 00:23:53,891 we have to go through a side or a back entrance. 514 00:23:54,808 --> 00:23:57,019 Grave digging sounds like something out of the 515 00:23:57,019 --> 00:24:01,857 19th century but apparently, it's still very much a thing. 516 00:24:03,692 --> 00:24:06,278 Obviously, they say that the reason this is happening at 517 00:24:06,278 --> 00:24:08,822 night is because nobody knows that we're coming, 518 00:24:08,822 --> 00:24:11,742 nobody knows they're doing what they're doing. 519 00:24:12,952 --> 00:24:17,665 I haven't actually met this guy, so I'm not sure what to expect. 520 00:24:18,123 --> 00:24:20,834 I've learned that grave digging is a major source of 521 00:24:20,834 --> 00:24:23,962 black market bones and skulls. 522 00:24:23,962 --> 00:24:26,632 And through my connections in Mexico, 523 00:24:26,632 --> 00:24:29,176 I've come to see how it works. 524 00:24:36,475 --> 00:24:43,107 [footsteps] 525 00:24:45,776 --> 00:24:47,820 I've been given some specific instructions 526 00:24:47,820 --> 00:24:51,073 of how to find the spot, 527 00:24:53,826 --> 00:24:56,370 and it kind of feels like the start of every 528 00:24:56,370 --> 00:24:58,956 bad horror movie. 529 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:07,047 Nothing creepy about walking around a cemetery at night. 530 00:25:09,425 --> 00:25:13,804 [distant dog barking] 531 00:25:13,804 --> 00:25:20,227 [digging] 532 00:25:25,607 --> 00:25:26,734 [in Spanish] Hello. 533 00:25:27,943 --> 00:25:29,445 Hello, hi. 534 00:25:31,822 --> 00:25:32,823 [speaking Spanish]. 535 00:25:38,245 --> 00:25:39,663 [Mariana Van Zeller] Uh-hmm. 536 00:25:49,673 --> 00:25:51,133 [Mariana Van Zeller] Mexico City is running out of 537 00:25:51,133 --> 00:25:52,801 cemetery space. 538 00:25:52,801 --> 00:25:56,013 30,000 people die each year in the capital and 539 00:25:56,013 --> 00:25:57,848 burial plots are scarce. 540 00:26:06,857 --> 00:26:08,025 [Mariana Van Zeller] Uh-hmm. 541 00:26:08,317 --> 00:26:10,694 To make room, some cemeteries enforce burial limits, 542 00:26:10,694 --> 00:26:13,947 exhuming bodies after a certain number of years. 543 00:27:49,251 --> 00:27:50,252 [Mariana Van Zeller] Uh-huh. 544 00:27:50,711 --> 00:27:53,839 And just like that, I learn of a new set of buyers. 545 00:27:55,549 --> 00:27:58,260 Santeria is a Caribbean religion that fuses 546 00:27:58,260 --> 00:28:02,180 Yoruba beliefs from West Africa with Roman Catholicism. 547 00:28:02,973 --> 00:28:06,351 It's now practiced in parts of Mexico and the U.S., too. 548 00:28:07,185 --> 00:28:10,564 And can sometimes include the use of human remains in 549 00:28:10,564 --> 00:28:14,568 secretive rituals performed by priests called Santeros. 550 00:28:31,668 --> 00:28:38,425 [rustling, panting] 551 00:28:50,020 --> 00:28:54,942 [unzipping] 552 00:29:04,326 --> 00:29:05,911 [Mariana Van Zeller] Wow, it's crazy. 553 00:29:05,911 --> 00:29:07,788 It's, um, so that's a skull, 554 00:29:07,788 --> 00:29:10,374 with actually, with a lot of teeth in it. 555 00:29:10,374 --> 00:29:11,792 Whoo. 556 00:29:11,792 --> 00:29:14,252 The smell is very strong. 557 00:29:14,252 --> 00:29:17,339 Lot's of body parts still with clothing. Um. 558 00:29:35,023 --> 00:29:36,608 [Mariana Van Zeller] You can see how people can actually 559 00:29:36,608 --> 00:29:38,360 make some good money here. 560 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,153 Sell this for $500 and, in the U.S., 561 00:29:40,153 --> 00:29:42,406 it goes for thousands of dollars. 562 00:29:45,701 --> 00:29:48,370 And apparently it's happening all over Mexico. 563 00:29:51,581 --> 00:29:54,710 [Mariana Van Zeller] Okay. They said we should go. 564 00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:56,837 Okay. 565 00:30:00,507 --> 00:30:04,386 The odd shape of this black market is coming into focus 566 00:30:04,386 --> 00:30:08,974 but I still want to find an active buyer here in the U.S. 567 00:30:10,934 --> 00:30:13,395 That's what brings me to Miami, 568 00:30:13,395 --> 00:30:16,523 a city with an active Santeria community. 569 00:30:16,815 --> 00:30:19,568 And where a contact has put me in touch with a Santero 570 00:30:19,568 --> 00:30:22,154 willing to talk. 571 00:30:28,410 --> 00:30:31,163 So I think we're close. 572 00:30:31,580 --> 00:30:34,249 Sort of an industrial area looks like. 573 00:30:40,297 --> 00:30:42,758 [music intensifying] 574 00:30:42,758 --> 00:30:44,217 I think that's it, actually. 575 00:30:44,217 --> 00:30:46,344 That's the white SUV. 576 00:30:47,804 --> 00:30:49,973 -Hi. -Hey. 577 00:30:49,973 --> 00:30:51,767 [Mariana Van Zeller] How are you doing? 578 00:30:51,767 --> 00:30:53,226 Can we see it? 579 00:30:53,226 --> 00:30:55,270 [Buyer] Yeah. 580 00:31:00,567 --> 00:31:02,527 [Mariana Van Zeller] Oh, wow. 581 00:31:05,697 --> 00:31:07,157 [Mariana Van Zeller] So you are involved in Santeria? 582 00:31:07,157 --> 00:31:07,949 Is that. 583 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:08,992 [Buyer] That's what we practice. 584 00:31:09,785 --> 00:31:11,411 [Mariana Van Zeller] And what are you sort of a, a priest? 585 00:31:11,411 --> 00:31:13,455 [Buyer] Well, uh, yeah, if you want to call it that, yeah. 586 00:31:13,455 --> 00:31:14,331 [Mariana Van Zeller] How do you want to call it? 587 00:31:14,748 --> 00:31:16,875 [Buyer] It's, it's we, we're called Babalawo. 588 00:31:16,875 --> 00:31:17,667 [Mariana Van Zeller] Babalawo? 589 00:31:18,085 --> 00:31:20,045 [Buyer] Yeah. That's the highest rank that 590 00:31:20,045 --> 00:31:21,671 you could have in the religion. 591 00:31:21,671 --> 00:31:23,423 [Mariana Van Zeller] So Miami is sort of a hub for Santeria? 592 00:31:23,423 --> 00:31:24,633 [Buyer] Oh, yeah. Big time, big time. 593 00:31:25,008 --> 00:31:28,011 [Mariana Van Zeller] And in your ceremonies, bones and all 594 00:31:28,011 --> 00:31:31,515 sorts of different body parts, are those used in ceremonies, 595 00:31:31,515 --> 00:31:33,308 or how are you involved? 596 00:31:33,308 --> 00:31:36,353 [Buyer] It's a religion that most people don't know. 597 00:31:36,353 --> 00:31:38,647 Most people don't even, you don't even think how far it 598 00:31:38,647 --> 00:31:41,399 could go with just the power of a chant. 599 00:31:41,399 --> 00:31:45,612 I could either save someone's life, or with a chant I could 600 00:31:45,612 --> 00:31:47,906 maybe kill somebody's life. 601 00:31:47,906 --> 00:31:49,950 [Mariana Van Zeller] Can you tell me which bones, or 602 00:31:49,950 --> 00:31:52,244 body parts are we talking about? 603 00:31:52,244 --> 00:31:55,288 [Buyer] The most common is, uh, uh, skulls. 604 00:31:55,288 --> 00:31:56,790 [Mariana Van Zeller] Skulls. 605 00:31:56,790 --> 00:31:59,209 [Buyer] But we use all body parts. 606 00:31:59,209 --> 00:32:02,295 You could use it for your protection, for anything, 607 00:32:02,295 --> 00:32:04,256 for avoiding bad things, getting to you. 608 00:32:04,256 --> 00:32:06,591 Hey, maybe you have a child with cancer. 609 00:32:06,591 --> 00:32:09,594 He's dying and the doctors can't do anything for him. 610 00:32:09,594 --> 00:32:10,971 [Mariana Van Zeller] So is that, you know, are those the 611 00:32:10,971 --> 00:32:12,180 situations in which you sometimes do. 612 00:32:12,180 --> 00:32:13,431 -Sometimes. -Santeria ceremonies? 613 00:32:13,723 --> 00:32:16,518 [Buyer] Yes. My grandmother was dying of stage 4 cancer. 614 00:32:16,518 --> 00:32:18,061 Lung cancer. 615 00:32:18,061 --> 00:32:20,021 [Mariana Van Zeller] And you performed a ritual on her? 616 00:32:20,021 --> 00:32:20,981 A ceremony? 617 00:32:20,981 --> 00:32:23,108 [Buyer] Yup. And she's there. 618 00:32:23,108 --> 00:32:24,317 [Mariana Van Zeller] She's still alive? 619 00:32:24,317 --> 00:32:26,069 [Buyer] She's there. 620 00:32:26,069 --> 00:32:27,988 [Mariana Van Zeller] Do you, do you have anything with 621 00:32:27,988 --> 00:32:29,823 you right now? 622 00:32:29,823 --> 00:32:35,203 [Buyer] I have, but it's not, I mean, it's inside the same. 623 00:32:35,203 --> 00:32:36,329 Yeah. 624 00:32:36,329 --> 00:32:37,455 [Mariana Van Zeller] Can we see it? 625 00:32:37,455 --> 00:32:39,082 Even if we don't see the inside? 626 00:32:39,082 --> 00:32:40,917 [Buyer] Yeah. 627 00:32:47,132 --> 00:32:50,468 [Mariana Van Zeller] Wow. 628 00:32:50,468 --> 00:32:52,262 So it's a shell, right? 629 00:32:52,262 --> 00:32:53,847 [Buyer] It's a shell, yeah. 630 00:32:53,847 --> 00:32:55,807 [Mariana Van Zeller] And then what's inside? 631 00:32:55,807 --> 00:32:58,643 [Buyer] It contains a whole lot of ingredients and stuff. 632 00:32:58,643 --> 00:33:01,229 But the main one is the skull. 633 00:33:01,229 --> 00:33:03,023 [Mariana Van Zeller] So there's a skull inside, actually? 634 00:33:03,023 --> 00:33:05,192 [Buyer] This one I had to break it in pieces, 635 00:33:05,192 --> 00:33:06,902 so it could, it all fit inside. 636 00:33:06,902 --> 00:33:07,861 Yup. 637 00:33:08,486 --> 00:33:09,821 [Mariana Van Zeller] How much do you have pay for a skull? 638 00:33:09,821 --> 00:33:11,281 [Buyer] I paid 5,000, so. 639 00:33:11,281 --> 00:33:12,240 [Mariana Van Zeller] $5,000? 640 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:13,617 -Yes. -For a skull? 641 00:33:13,617 --> 00:33:14,910 [Buyer] They're expensive. 642 00:33:14,910 --> 00:33:16,494 [Mariana Van Zeller] How old do you think it was? 643 00:33:16,494 --> 00:33:19,748 [Buyer] I mean, this one in particular, there were twins. 644 00:33:20,081 --> 00:33:21,166 Eight months? 645 00:33:21,166 --> 00:33:22,751 -Eight months old? -Yup. 646 00:33:22,751 --> 00:33:24,669 -So baby twins? -Yup. 647 00:33:24,669 --> 00:33:26,254 [Mariana Van Zeller] Do you worry at all where the, where 648 00:33:26,254 --> 00:33:29,424 these bones, or body parts, or skulls are coming from? 649 00:33:29,424 --> 00:33:32,636 [Buyer] No. I don't, I don't really care. 650 00:33:32,636 --> 00:33:36,514 I mean, I, I just want to, you know, resolve my problem 651 00:33:36,514 --> 00:33:37,432 for my people. 652 00:33:37,974 --> 00:33:38,850 [Mariana Van Zeller] Do you have any idea where this 653 00:33:38,850 --> 00:33:40,185 skull came from? 654 00:33:40,185 --> 00:33:41,853 [Buyer] Which one? 655 00:33:41,853 --> 00:33:44,356 [Mariana Van Zeller] The skull that's inside here, or I mean, 656 00:33:44,356 --> 00:33:46,650 where do you get your skulls, and bones. 657 00:33:46,650 --> 00:33:49,611 [Buyer] I'd rather not, yeah. Not answer that question. 658 00:33:49,611 --> 00:33:52,197 [Mariana Van Zeller] But is it a place, or a person? 659 00:33:52,197 --> 00:33:55,992 [Buyer] It's a person that I, usually, yeah. 660 00:33:56,368 --> 00:33:57,827 [Mariana Van Zeller] Do you think this person would 661 00:33:57,827 --> 00:33:59,371 talk to us? 662 00:33:59,371 --> 00:34:03,458 [Buyer] Uh, maybe. I would have to talk to him. 663 00:34:16,012 --> 00:34:17,806 [Mariana Van Zeller] Typically, these sorts of asks 664 00:34:17,806 --> 00:34:20,850 don't pay off. 665 00:34:21,685 --> 00:34:25,146 But later that same day, he comes through 666 00:34:25,146 --> 00:34:27,774 and I feel like I'm on the verge of meeting someone 667 00:34:27,774 --> 00:34:30,694 who claims to be a real player. 668 00:34:30,694 --> 00:34:33,697 If I can find him. 669 00:34:33,989 --> 00:34:35,156 Is it here? 670 00:34:35,156 --> 00:34:37,492 [Producer] Yeah. 671 00:34:44,499 --> 00:34:46,001 [Mariana Van Zeller] Nothing weird about driving in the 672 00:34:46,001 --> 00:34:48,586 middle of nowhere. 673 00:34:55,093 --> 00:35:00,515 [music intensifying] 674 00:35:08,940 --> 00:35:13,361 [car engine rumbling] 675 00:35:18,033 --> 00:35:21,202 [door opens, closes] 676 00:35:32,047 --> 00:35:37,719 [footsteps] 677 00:35:39,638 --> 00:35:41,431 -I'm Mariana. -Chichi. 678 00:35:41,431 --> 00:35:42,766 [Mariana Van Zeller] Hi, Chichi. Nice to meet you. 679 00:35:42,766 --> 00:35:43,683 Thanks for meeting us. 680 00:35:43,683 --> 00:35:44,642 [Chichi] Of course. 681 00:35:45,268 --> 00:35:47,103 [Mariana Van Zeller] We spoke with somebody who says that 682 00:35:47,103 --> 00:35:50,357 they have been, they've purchased some body parts 683 00:35:50,357 --> 00:35:52,192 and bones from you. 684 00:35:52,192 --> 00:35:55,570 Um, can you tell me, um, yeah. 685 00:35:55,570 --> 00:35:58,406 Where, where do you get this stuff and how are you involved 686 00:35:58,406 --> 00:35:59,658 in the business? 687 00:35:59,908 --> 00:36:02,369 [Chichi] I, uh, I, uh, I work for a company that was a 688 00:36:02,369 --> 00:36:08,958 biomedical company and dealt with, uh, the donors. 689 00:36:09,834 --> 00:36:15,298 And, uh, the tissue went into a biohazard bin. 690 00:36:16,383 --> 00:36:18,843 It could have been anywhere from your big bones, 691 00:36:18,843 --> 00:36:21,513 to your spine, to your pelvis. 692 00:36:21,513 --> 00:36:22,931 Right? 693 00:36:22,931 --> 00:36:25,850 Uh, all that would be discarded into a 694 00:36:25,850 --> 00:36:27,310 big garbage can. 695 00:36:27,310 --> 00:36:30,146 And it was done. That's it. It was gone. 696 00:36:30,146 --> 00:36:31,606 Gonna go get cremated. 697 00:36:31,606 --> 00:36:32,524 Right? 698 00:36:33,024 --> 00:36:34,484 And then there was, uh, few things I was able to, 699 00:36:34,484 --> 00:36:36,027 you know, kind of take, Right? 700 00:36:36,027 --> 00:36:38,154 And put it inside my sweater 701 00:36:38,154 --> 00:36:40,782 and kind of just put it in my bag. Right? 702 00:36:40,782 --> 00:36:42,075 [Mariana Van Zeller] And there were no cameras there, nothing? 703 00:36:42,075 --> 00:36:43,159 No surveillance? 704 00:36:43,660 --> 00:36:44,869 [Chichi] Not in the, not, not once it was inside the, uh, 705 00:36:44,869 --> 00:36:47,247 biomedical, uh, biohazard bins. 706 00:36:47,247 --> 00:36:50,708 So this is a image of a big bone that I was able to take out. 707 00:36:50,708 --> 00:36:52,460 That was gonna get discarded. 708 00:36:52,460 --> 00:36:53,920 [Mariana Van Zeller] Oh, so there's a lot of bags. 709 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:55,296 -Yeah. -With lot of bones. 710 00:36:55,296 --> 00:36:56,589 And what, what bone? 711 00:36:56,589 --> 00:36:57,590 [Chichi] That's a tibia. 712 00:36:57,590 --> 00:36:58,842 -Oh, the leg bone? -Yeah. 713 00:36:59,175 --> 00:37:00,301 [Mariana Van Zeller] So you literally put it sort of under 714 00:37:00,635 --> 00:37:01,928 your sweater and walked out with it and then put it 715 00:37:01,928 --> 00:37:03,012 in a backpack? 716 00:37:03,012 --> 00:37:03,972 [Chichi] Yeah. Yeah. 717 00:37:04,514 --> 00:37:06,224 It's just, you know, simply just tucking it and going. 718 00:37:06,224 --> 00:37:09,686 There was many people that worked in the company that 719 00:37:09,686 --> 00:37:13,648 got caught up reselling discarded tissue on eBay. 720 00:37:13,648 --> 00:37:15,233 [Mariana Van Zeller] No way. 721 00:37:15,233 --> 00:37:18,528 Finally, firsthand evidence of what I've heard throughout 722 00:37:18,528 --> 00:37:22,157 this journey, that the real threat in this black market 723 00:37:22,157 --> 00:37:25,869 are opportunists working inside the legal industry, 724 00:37:26,244 --> 00:37:28,621 like this guy and his co-workers. 725 00:37:29,122 --> 00:37:31,583 [Chichi] It was many different people that did this, as well. 726 00:37:31,583 --> 00:37:32,375 [Mariana Van Zeller] Uh-huh. 727 00:37:32,959 --> 00:37:35,086 [Chichi] I was just one that, you know, excelled. 728 00:37:41,718 --> 00:37:43,553 [Mariana Van Zeller] How long did you work at this 729 00:37:43,553 --> 00:37:44,762 tissue bank for? 730 00:37:45,138 --> 00:37:47,682 [Chichi] I worked there for about three and a half years. 731 00:37:47,682 --> 00:37:49,267 [Mariana Van Zeller] I'm in Florida, where I've finally 732 00:37:49,267 --> 00:37:51,895 connected with a man who claims to be a black market 733 00:37:51,895 --> 00:37:54,397 seller of body parts. 734 00:37:54,397 --> 00:37:56,274 So you actually knew other people who did the same? 735 00:37:56,274 --> 00:38:00,361 [Chichi] Yeah, and those people ended up getting dealt with 736 00:38:00,361 --> 00:38:02,614 through the company and were let go. 737 00:38:02,614 --> 00:38:04,282 [Mariana Van Zeller] Oh, so the company actually found out 738 00:38:04,282 --> 00:38:05,366 they were doing this? 739 00:38:05,366 --> 00:38:06,326 [Chichi] Yeah. Yeah. 740 00:38:06,868 --> 00:38:07,786 [Mariana Van Zeller] Oh, so they let them go because of it? 741 00:38:07,786 --> 00:38:08,578 [Chichi] Yeah. 742 00:38:09,204 --> 00:38:10,788 [Mariana Van Zeller] And did the company ever, uh, 743 00:38:10,788 --> 00:38:12,457 report to the authorities? 744 00:38:12,457 --> 00:38:15,043 [Chichi] Hmm. I don't think so. 745 00:38:15,043 --> 00:38:18,296 [Mariana Van Zeller] Um, what body parts are we talking about? 746 00:38:18,296 --> 00:38:19,714 [Chichi] It could vary. 747 00:38:19,714 --> 00:38:23,551 It could vary from a skull to a pinky toe. 748 00:38:23,551 --> 00:38:25,929 What people needed, the human bones. 749 00:38:25,929 --> 00:38:27,514 [Mariana Van Zeller] But you were also making money from it? 750 00:38:27,514 --> 00:38:28,431 [Chichi] Yeah. 751 00:38:29,015 --> 00:38:31,226 I'm taking a bone and I'm selling it for 1,000, 5,000, 752 00:38:31,226 --> 00:38:33,436 $6,000, depending on what it is. 753 00:38:33,436 --> 00:38:35,271 [Mariana Van Zeller] Is it expensive because it is not 754 00:38:35,271 --> 00:38:38,316 usually available because it's hard to get, I'm assuming? 755 00:38:38,316 --> 00:38:39,275 [Chichi] Yeah. 756 00:38:39,818 --> 00:38:42,195 In order to get a skull, you gotta go to the cemetery. 757 00:38:42,195 --> 00:38:44,030 Right? 758 00:38:44,030 --> 00:38:45,782 And that's the only way to get it, 759 00:38:45,782 --> 00:38:47,826 is if we go into the cemetery. 760 00:38:47,826 --> 00:38:50,578 And, uh, there's only one cemetery here in Miami that's 761 00:38:50,578 --> 00:38:52,830 capable of offering that. 762 00:38:52,830 --> 00:38:55,667 [Mariana Van Zeller] Wait, so, so there's actually a, a 763 00:38:55,667 --> 00:38:58,127 graveyard here in Miami where people go and... 764 00:38:58,127 --> 00:39:01,214 [Chichi] Yeah. It's, uh, in the heart of Liberty City, 765 00:39:01,214 --> 00:39:03,716 it's a very old cemetery. 766 00:39:03,716 --> 00:39:06,261 It's filled, so there's graves that come out of the ground 767 00:39:06,803 --> 00:39:09,806 and if needed, that's the place. 768 00:39:09,806 --> 00:39:11,683 [Mariana Van Zeller] Have you done it, too? No? 769 00:39:11,683 --> 00:39:12,767 [Chichi] Uh, yeah. 770 00:39:12,767 --> 00:39:13,893 -The grave robbing? -Yeah. 771 00:39:13,893 --> 00:39:15,562 -Oh, you have, as well? -Yeah. 772 00:39:15,562 --> 00:39:17,522 Uh, this skull here. 773 00:39:17,522 --> 00:39:19,065 [Mariana Van Zeller] Oh, wow. 774 00:39:19,065 --> 00:39:21,359 [Chichi] Right? This was taken out of the cemetery. 775 00:39:21,359 --> 00:39:22,777 [Mariana Van Zeller] So it's a skull that you procured, 776 00:39:22,777 --> 00:39:23,653 that you got, you sold. 777 00:39:24,028 --> 00:39:25,113 [Chichi] Yeah. Yeah, I went and dealt this. 778 00:39:25,613 --> 00:39:26,531 [Mariana Van Zeller] How much money would you say you made 779 00:39:26,531 --> 00:39:29,868 in total actually, more or less? 780 00:39:30,201 --> 00:39:33,121 [Chichi] Close to 80k. 781 00:39:33,121 --> 00:39:35,665 [Mariana Van Zeller] I mention the buyer I met earlier. 782 00:39:35,665 --> 00:39:37,625 [Chichi] He's, uh, my biggest customer. 783 00:39:37,625 --> 00:39:39,335 [Mariana Van Zeller] And, well, I think he did say he 784 00:39:39,335 --> 00:39:41,838 bought a skull for a $5,000 from you. 785 00:39:41,838 --> 00:39:43,464 [Chichi] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 786 00:39:43,464 --> 00:39:45,174 You know, whatever he did with whatever I sold him afterwards 787 00:39:45,174 --> 00:39:47,093 was his matters. 788 00:39:47,093 --> 00:39:48,344 You know? 789 00:39:48,678 --> 00:39:50,805 [Mariana Van Zeller] And if the police were to catch you, 790 00:39:50,805 --> 00:39:52,807 what do you think would happen to you? 791 00:39:52,807 --> 00:39:55,602 [Chichi] Uh, I mean, I'm pretty sure, uh, 792 00:39:55,602 --> 00:39:57,061 everyone's aware of what could happen. 793 00:39:57,061 --> 00:39:58,605 Right? 794 00:39:58,605 --> 00:40:01,024 But it's untraceable at this point. 795 00:40:01,900 --> 00:40:04,152 [Mariana Van Zeller] Untraceable, a heartbreaking 796 00:40:04,152 --> 00:40:07,071 thought for the bodies of our loved ones, 797 00:40:07,071 --> 00:40:11,159 and a far cry from resting in peace. 798 00:40:14,037 --> 00:40:16,497 When you die do you think you want your body to be donated? 799 00:40:16,497 --> 00:40:20,460 [Chichi] Um, I'm not a donor, 800 00:40:20,460 --> 00:40:23,004 uh, and I want to leave this message clear, 801 00:40:23,004 --> 00:40:25,173 that this can happen to anyone, 802 00:40:25,173 --> 00:40:26,799 regardless of you being a donor, or not. 803 00:40:26,799 --> 00:40:29,844 Your body parts are gonna be sold and it's gonna be sold 804 00:40:29,844 --> 00:40:32,764 to him at a top dollar. 805 00:40:36,726 --> 00:40:38,519 [Mariana Van Zeller] But you should note that 806 00:40:38,519 --> 00:40:42,231 every now and then, justice does get served. 807 00:40:42,231 --> 00:40:44,233 [News Anchor] Megan Hess and Shirley Koch pleaded guilty 808 00:40:44,233 --> 00:40:45,902 to mail fraud. 809 00:40:45,902 --> 00:40:47,987 [Mariana Van Zeller] For their crimes, Megan Hess was sentenced 810 00:40:47,987 --> 00:40:50,073 to 20 years and 811 00:40:50,073 --> 00:40:53,910 her mother, Shirley Koch, to 15 years in federal prison. 812 00:40:55,954 --> 00:40:58,289 [Paul Johnson] Would I donate my body to science? 813 00:40:58,289 --> 00:41:00,917 Um, no. 814 00:41:01,751 --> 00:41:03,628 I do believe in the work, 815 00:41:03,628 --> 00:41:06,547 but I don't trust the industry as a whole. 816 00:41:06,881 --> 00:41:09,384 [Mariana Van Zeller] Around 3 million people die in the U.S. 817 00:41:09,384 --> 00:41:13,763 every year, that's 3 million families trying to figure out 818 00:41:13,763 --> 00:41:18,101 burial, cremation or donation arrangements for loved ones. 819 00:41:19,852 --> 00:41:23,564 But if the options seem hopeless, they're not. 820 00:41:23,564 --> 00:41:26,109 In the course of reporting this story I met a lot of 821 00:41:26,109 --> 00:41:28,945 people on the hunt for the right option. 822 00:41:28,945 --> 00:41:30,446 It's out there. 823 00:41:30,446 --> 00:41:32,740 You just have to do your homework. 824 00:41:32,740 --> 00:41:35,326 Like Sherri did. 825 00:41:35,952 --> 00:41:37,620 [Sherri] I was diagnosed in 2013. 826 00:41:37,620 --> 00:41:40,164 I had a mastectomy, 827 00:41:40,164 --> 00:41:43,126 and then eventually I had a second tumor. 828 00:41:43,126 --> 00:41:46,337 I'm at the level of hospice that is end of life care. 829 00:41:46,337 --> 00:41:49,173 [Mariana Van Zeller] How do you feel physically right now? 830 00:41:49,173 --> 00:41:51,634 [Sherri] I have to have a lot of sleep, so I've sort of 831 00:41:51,634 --> 00:41:55,138 given into that and I eat like crazy. 832 00:41:55,138 --> 00:41:56,014 [Mariana Van Zeller] Mm-hmm. 833 00:41:56,597 --> 00:41:57,640 [Sherri's Husband] She ate 24 cream puffs one night. 834 00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,934 [laughing] 835 00:42:00,601 --> 00:42:02,729 [Mariana Van Zeller] Without much time left, Sherri came to 836 00:42:02,729 --> 00:42:05,565 the decision to donate her body to science, 837 00:42:05,565 --> 00:42:09,277 specifically to a program at Western Carolina University 838 00:42:09,277 --> 00:42:12,238 that trains dogs to find missing people. 839 00:42:12,238 --> 00:42:14,115 [Dog Trainer] What? Atta girl. 840 00:42:14,115 --> 00:42:16,117 [Mariana Van Zeller] It made Sherri feel good that her body 841 00:42:16,117 --> 00:42:19,787 would be used to help other families after she's gone. 842 00:42:19,787 --> 00:42:22,248 What would you say to the people who don't respect 843 00:42:22,248 --> 00:42:25,793 those wishes, who profit out of people's bodies 844 00:42:25,793 --> 00:42:28,421 without their consent? 845 00:42:28,421 --> 00:42:30,548 Whether you're running a funeral home and selling 846 00:42:30,548 --> 00:42:32,175 body parts in the back, 847 00:42:32,175 --> 00:42:35,678 or you're stealing body parts to use them in the oddities market. 848 00:42:35,678 --> 00:42:37,638 I think there's this idea that, 849 00:42:37,638 --> 00:42:39,223 "who cares, the person's already dead, 850 00:42:39,223 --> 00:42:40,433 who cares what happens to their body?" 851 00:42:40,433 --> 00:42:41,517 [Sherri] Right. 852 00:42:42,018 --> 00:42:43,561 [Mariana Van Zeller] So what would you say to those people? 853 00:42:44,187 --> 00:42:47,774 [Sherri] Well, it's, to me, probably one of the greatest 854 00:42:47,774 --> 00:42:51,736 forms of invasion. 855 00:42:52,403 --> 00:42:54,906 It's the final act of a human being. 856 00:42:55,364 --> 00:42:58,826 Your leaving is no small thing. 857 00:42:59,702 --> 00:43:04,916 So when you have someone who has moved into that process 858 00:43:04,916 --> 00:43:08,127 in an illegal way, 859 00:43:08,127 --> 00:43:12,507 I'm, I'm baffled and I'm hurt 860 00:43:12,507 --> 00:43:15,635 that a human could 861 00:43:15,635 --> 00:43:18,179 move in that cycle of thinking. 862 00:43:18,179 --> 00:43:21,974 How they could sleep, how they could repeat it, 863 00:43:21,974 --> 00:43:25,144 how they could profit from it. 864 00:43:25,144 --> 00:43:29,023 It's beyond my capability to understand that 865 00:43:29,023 --> 00:43:31,943 part of our psyche. 866 00:43:32,568 --> 00:43:34,278 [Mariana Van Zeller] I have to agree. 867 00:43:34,278 --> 00:43:38,241 I've spent much of my life embedded in black markets. 868 00:43:38,241 --> 00:43:41,244 I'd rather not be there in death, too. 869 00:43:42,453 --> 00:43:44,664 [music plays through credits] 870 00:44:02,306 --> 00:44:03,683 Captioned by Cotter Media Group.