Awes: THIS MAN, TODD KOHLHEPP, IS A RAPIST AND A SERIAL KILLER.
HE'S KILLED SEVEN PEOPLE THAT WE KNOW OF.
-WHAT WAS THAT LIKE FOR YOU? -MECHANICAL.
WHEN KALA BROWN IS RELEASED FROM A SHIPPING CONTAINER,
THE WORLD FINDS OUT ABOUT HIS MURDEROUS PAST.
Man: WE'RE GONNA GET YOU OUT OF THERE, OKAY?
Garrett: HE'D BRING KALA IN HERE.
AND THIS IS WHERE HE COULD CHAIN HER.
Awes: MY NAME IS MARIA AWES.
I'M A FILMMAKER AND INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST.
EVERYONE WONDERS IF THERE ARE MORE VICTIMS OUT THERE.
HE TELLS ME THERE ARE.
ARE YOU SAYING THAT IT'S MORE THAN SEVEN?
SO I START A DARK JOURNEY THAT I HOPE WILL LEAD ME TO THE TRUTH.
THIS JUST MAKES ME SICK TO MY STOMACH.
I GOT TO GET OUT OF HERE.
♪♪
--Captions by VITAC-- www.vitac.com
CAPTIONS PAID FOR BY DISCOVERY COMMUNICATIONS
LAST TIME ON "SERIAL KILLER: DEVIL UNCHAINED"...
SPARTANBURG COUNTY SHERIFF CHUCK WRIGHT AGREES TO DO
A LONG-AWAITED INTERVIEW WITH ME
ABOUT LOCAL SERIAL KILLER TODD KOHLHEPP,
WHOSE CRIMES WERE REVEALED UPON ONE VICTIM'S RESCUE.
SHERIFF'S OFFICE!
WHEN KALA BROWN IS RESCUED FROM THE SHIPPING CONTAINER,
SHE TELLS POLICE THAT TODD SHOT HER BOYFRIEND
CHARLIE CARVER TO DEATH AND ALSO KILLED MANY MORE PEOPLE.
NOT ONLY THAT, SHE SAYS HE'D WANTED TO TRAIN HER
AS HIS ACCOMPLICE TO GET HIS KILL NUMBERS EVEN HIGHER.
IT'S POSSIBLE KALA BROWN WASN'T THE FIRST PERSON
TODD KOHLHEPP WANTED TO USE AS AN ACCOMPLICE.
CHARLIE CARVER'S FAMILY WONDERS IF NIKKI,
CHARLIE'S ESTRANGED WIFE, PLAYED A ROLE IN HIS DEATH.
IS SHE ONE OF THE ACCOMPLICES
TODD ALLUDES TO IN ONE OF OUR FIRST PHONE CALLS?
LIKE SO MANY STRANGE LEADS IN THIS CASE,
IT'S CERTAINLY WORTH LOOKING INTO.
♪♪
CHARLIE CARVER'S FAMILY KNOWS
THAT AFTER CHARLIE AND KALA WENT MISSING,
NIKKI IS SPOTTED TAKING HIS LAPTOP OUT OF HIS APARTMENT.
THEN MYSTERIOUS FACEBOOK POSTS BEGIN POPPING UP ON HER PAGE
AND CHARLIE'S, INCLUDING ONE THAT IS PARTICULARLY CHILLING.
Shiflet: IT WAS BASICALLY "REST IN PEACE,"
OR SOMETHING ABOUT "SHE'S A WIDOW NOW."
AND THAT WAS ON AUGUST THE 31st,
WHICH IS ACTUALLY THE DAY THAT HE WAS KILLED.
HOW WOULD SHE KNOW THAT?
SEEMS JUST A LITTLE BIT TOO COINCIDENTAL.
IT WAS ORIGINATED AS COMING FROM NIKKI'S ADDRESS.
Awes: I ASKED TODD ABOUT NIKKI, AND IN A LETTER, HE SAYS NIKKI
"WASN'T INVOLVED IN ANY WAY ON MY END,
BUT SHE SURE DID SOME OF THE WILDEST
AND UTTERLY STUPID ACTIONS TO MAKE IT SEEM SHE WAS.
I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT DROVE HER TO HER ACTIONS."
I TRY TO ASK NIKKI DIRECTLY ABOUT HER POSTS,
BUT SHE DECLINES MY REQUEST FOR AN INTERVIEW.
TODAY, THERE'S NO QUESTION SHE COMPLICATED THE CASE.
SHE WAS TELLING THE DETECTIVES THAT THEY WERE AT THE BEACH,
AND NONE OF THAT WAS TRUE.
Awes: NIKKI CARVER ISN'T CHARGED WITH ANYTHING IN CONNECTION
WITH CHARLIE'S MURDER,
BUT IT IS DISCOVERED THAT SHE CALLS CHARLIE'S
CELLPHONE PROVIDER TO ASK FOR HIS RECORDS AFTER
HE GOES MISSING, POSING AS A DETECTIVE.
FOR THIS, SHE'S CHARGED WITH IMPERSONATING AN OFFICER,
FOUND GUILTY, AND IS ORDERED TO PAY $2,000
IN RESTITUTION IN 2018.
SHE'S ALSO PLACED ON PROBATION.
THE SENTENCE COMES ALMOST TWO YEARS AFTER CHARLIE'S FAMILY
GETS THE NEWS ABOUT KALA'S RESCUE AND THEIR SON'S MURDER.
HE'D BEEN MISSING 65 DAYS.
65 LONG DAYS.
I GOT A CALL FROM THE ANDERSON CITY
POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND HE SAID, "WE FOUND KALA."
HE SAID THAT THEY FOUND HER AND SHE WAS ALIVE.
AND I SAID, "PRAISE THE LORD."
♪♪
'CAUSE AT THAT POINT...
...I THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO FIND MY SON THE SAME WAY.
♪♪
Shiflet: THEY TOOK US TO CITY HALL,
AND WE SAT THERE AND WE WAITED AND WE WAITED.
THEY KEPT TRYING TO PREPARE US.
AND I DIDN'T WANT TO HEAR IT.
Awes: AT THE TIME, INVESTIGATORS ARE SEARCHING
TODD'S WOODED LAND FOR VICTIMS.
EVENTUALLY, SOMEONE FROM THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE
LEADS CHARLIE'S PARENTS TO THE PROPERTY,
WHERE THEY WAIT FOR NEWS ON THE FATE OF THEIR SON.
WE STAYED UNTIL WAY PAST DARK EVERY NIGHT.
THEY KEPT ASKING, YOU KNOW, FOR IDENTIFYING FEATURES.
AND YOU KEEP THINKING BACK...
WHEN HE WAS LITTLE -- EVERY LITTLE SCAR,
EVERY LITTLE BIKE WRECK.
THEN THEY WOULD LEAVE US AND GO BACK ON TO THE PROPERTY,
AND WE WOULD JUST BE STANDING THERE, YOU KNOW,
JUST WAITING FOR THE NEXT TINY PIECE OF NEWS.
Awes: IN FACT, NEWS WOULDN'T COME FOR TWO DAYS,
AND IT CERTAINLY ISN'T THE NEWS CHARLIE'S FAMILY WANTS TO HEAR.
AND THEN, ON THE FIFTH OF NOVEMBER, IT WAS DARK...
IT WAS REALLY COLD.
AND THEY ALL CAME OUT.
IT WAS CHUCK WRIGHT AND THE CORONER AND THE CHAPLAINS.
THEY GOT US ALL IN A CIRCLE.
AND THEY TOLD US.
AND I REMEMBER JUST FEELING LIKE PART OF ME JUST FELL AWAY.
♪♪
BUT THE ONLY THING THAT I WANTED TO DO WAS TO THANK GOD
THAT THEY HAD FOUND HIM, THAT HE WASN'T LOST ANYMORE.
Awes: CHARLIE CARVER'S BODY IS RECOVERED IN A REMOTE LOCATION
ON TODD'S 95 WOODED ACRES,
FAR FROM THE SHIPPING CONTAINER WHERE KALA BROWN WAS HELD,
CLOSER TO HIS SHOOTING TARGETS.
NEXT TO HIM, AUTHORITIES FIND EVIDENCE
THAT TODD IS PREPARED TO KILL AGAIN
IN THE FORM OF A FRESHLY-DUG GRAVE,
WHICH THEY ASK HIM ABOUT.
AFTER AUTHORITIES FIND CHARLIE AND THE EMPTY GRAVE,
THEY HAVE TROUBLE FINDING JOHNNY AND MEAGAN COXIE'S BODIES,
WHO THEY NOW KNOW ARE AMONG TODD'S VICTIMS.
WITH TODD'S HELP, JOHNNY AND MEAGAN COXIE
ARE FOUND BURIED NEXT TO EACH OTHER,
JUST A SHORT DISTANCE FROM THE FRONT OF THE SHIPPING CONTAINER
WHERE KALA IS FOUND ALIVE.
WHEN ALL THREE BODIES ARE EXHUMED,
AUTHORITIES FIND THEMSELVES FACING ANOTHER GRUESOME SURPRISE
IN A WEEK THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN FULL OF THEM.
BOTH OF THEM, THEIR FEET WERE GONE.
SHOES, FEET...
WERE COMPLETELY GONE.
WE ASKED HIM ABOUT THAT.
IT BECAME APPARENT REAL QUICK
THAT HE DID NOT LIKE TALKING ABOUT THAT.
Awes: THEN TODD MAKES A STATEMENT
THAT SEEMS TO MAKE NO SENSE AT ALL.
HE MADE A COMMENT THAT,
"MY MOTHER TOLD ME NEVER TO PLAY WITH MY FOOD."
♪♪
Awes: HEARING THAT THE VICTIM'S FEET ARE MISSING IS HORRIFYING.
TO THINK THAT TODD COULD HAVE ALSO DONE THIS
CONJURES UP IMAGES OF JEFFREY DAHMER.
IT MAKES THINGS EVEN WORSE FOR CHARLIE CARVER'S FAMILY.
WE FOUND OUT THROUGH THE AUTOPSY REPORTS
THAT CHARLIE'S FEET WERE MISSING.
AND THAT BOTHERED ME A LOT.
I READ IT, AND I READ IT.
AND SO I CALLED THE CORONER.
I TRIED TO PLAY EVERY SCENARIO TO HIM.
I SAID, "WAS IT FROM AN ANIMAL?"
YOU KNOW, "WHAT WAS IT?"
HE SAID, "NO, THERE'S NO TEETH MARKS."
I SAID, "WERE THEY CUT OFF?"
HE SAID, "THERE'S NO SAW MARKS."
HE SAID, "IT' LIKE WHEN YOU..."
HE SAID, "IF YOU TWIST YOUR ARM AND SEE THE SKIN TURNING,
IF YOU LOOK HERE, YOU CAN SEE WHERE THE SKIN WAS TURNING,
AND HE FEET JUST CAME OFF."
AND I WAS LIKE, "HOW'S THAT POSSIBLE?"
SOMETIMES OFFENDERS, YOU KNOW, KEEP SECRETS.
THEY WON'T ALWAYS TELL YOU 100% OF THE CRIME
THAT THEY'RE PERPETRATED.
THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THEY MAY NOT FEEL GOOD ABOUT.
IT'S KIND OF BIZARRE. WHAT WOULD HE DO WITH THE FEET?
I MEAN, I'VE INTERVIEWED FOOT-FETISH KILLERS.
JERRY BRUDOS, WHO HAS A FOOT FETISH,
AND HE CUT THE FEET OFF OF VICTIMS.
BUT THEN HE MADE MOLDS OUT OF THEM.
I DON'T -- HE'S NOT THAT KIND OF A FETISH KIND OF GUY,
TODD KOHLHEPP.
THE ONLY THING TODD WOULD COME BACK WITH IS,
"MY MOTHER ALWAYS TOLD ME NEVER TO PLAY WITH MY FOOD."
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? WHO KNOWS?
YOU CAN ANALYZE -- IT'S LIKE, ANALYSIS PARALYSIS.
YOU CAN TRY TO FIGURE THIS OUT,
AND THE ONLY PERSON THAT WOULD KNOW WOULD BE HIM.
AND IT'S A QUESTION OF, IS HE TELLING THE TRUTH TO US?
Awes: I ASK TODD ABOUT THE FEET,
AND HE RESPONDS TO ME IN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT LETTERS.
HE SAYS "I KILL. I DON'T PLAY WITH BODIES.
THIS ISN'T 'CRIMINAL MINDS.' NO TROPHIES.
ALL PARTS WERE ATTACHED WHEN I PUT THEM IN THE GROUND.
AND I THINK THE BACKHOE THEY DUG THEM UP WITH DID THAT.
I DIDN'T CAUSE IT."
EVEN IF YOU'RE USING A BACKHOE, I MEAN, WHAT ARE THE ODDS
YOU'RE GONNA CUT THE SAME WAY ON TWO SETS OF FEET?
Awes: I ASK SPARTANBURG COUNTY CORONER RUSTY CLEVENGER
ABOUT THE BACKHOE THEORY.
WERE YOU THERE WHEN THE ACTUAL BODIES WERE REMOVED?
YES.
COULD THIS HAVE HAPPENED WHEN THE BODIES
WERE BEING REMOVED FROM THE GROUND?
THERE WERE NOTABLE DAMAGE ON ONE OF THE BODIES,
BECAUSE THE BUCKET GOT A LITTLE TOO CLOSE,
BUT IT WAS NOT IN THE AREA OF THE FEET.
I HAD TEAMS OF FIVE-GALLON BUCKETS AT A TIME SIFTING TO SEE
IF WE COULD FIND ANY ELEMENT OF THE FEET, AND WE FOUND NONE.
AS AN INVESTIGATOR THAT HAS DONE HOMICIDE INVESTIGATIONS,
THE FACT THAT TWO MALES ARE ABSENT THEIR FEET
WHEN THE FEMALE STILL HAS HER FEET WOULD LEAD ME TO BELIEVE
THAT THERE'S SOMETHING SUSPICIOUS THERE.
Awes: ONE THING IS FOR CERTAIN --
IF TODD KOHLHEPP KNOWS MORE ABOUT THE FEET,
HE HAS NO DESIRE TO TELL...
...EVEN DURING THE INTERROGATIONS
WHERE HE CONFESSES TO MURDERING SEVEN PEOPLE.
TODD GIVES US PERMISSION TO VISIT HIS PROPERTY,
WHICH AT THIS POINT HE STILL OWNS,
AND I DECIDE I WANT TO SEE SO I CAN BETTER VISUALIZE HIS CRIMES.
GARY GARRETT, HIS BIOGRAPHER, GOES WITH ME.
♪♪
IT'S LIKE, TODD HAS TRESPASSING SIGNS EVERYWHERE.
DID HE HAVE A LOT OF TROUBLE
WITH PEOPLE COMING OUT HERE?
Garrett: YEAH, HE SAID HE HAS A LOT OF PROBLEMS
WITH HUNTERS MOSTLY.
IT'S HARD TO DESCRIBE, BUT BETWEEN THE THICK WOODS,
THE TEMPERATURE PUSHING 90,
AND THE KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT HAPPENED HERE, IT'S OMINOUS.
IT'S THE MOST DIFFICULT THING I'VE DONE
IN THIS ENTIRE INVESTIGATION SO FAR --
TO BE WHERE PEOPLE SPENT THEIR LAST MOMENTS.
BUT I WANT TO BETTER UNDERSTAND
HOW AND WHERE THE KILLINGS AND KALA'S CAPTIVITY TOOK PLACE.
SO, WHEN YOU TALKED TO TODD,
HE TOLD YOU WHERE EVERYTHING HAPPENED ON THE PROPERTY?
YEAH, HE TOLD ME WHERE THE SHOOTINGS HAPPENED,
WHERE HE BURIED THE BODIES.
WHEN HE TALKS TO YOU ABOUT IT, IS HE MATTER OF FACT?
IS HE REMORSEFUL?
HE'S MORE MATTER OF FACT. I DON'T...
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT REMORSE.
I DON'T KNOW IF HE NECESSARILY FEELS REMORSE.
AFTER A 20-MINUTE TREK
FROM THE BACK OF THE PROPERTY PAST CRIME-SCENE TAPE
AND THE PLACE WHERE CHARLIE CARVER WAS BURIED,
WE FINALLY GET TO TODD'S GARAGE.
BEING OUT HERE AND EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED HERE,
AND THEN, IT'S LIKE, THERE'S A BARBECUE GRILL.
YOU KNOW, IS HE GRILLING? IS HE HAVING A HAMBURGER?
LIKE, THERE'S JUST SOMETHING SO WRONG.
THAT DOOR? THE DOOR'S NOT OPEN, IS IT?
I MEAN, I DON'T THINK SO.
♪♪
OH. IT IS OPEN.
♪♪
I'M NOT PREPARED FOR WHAT'S INSIDE.
♪♪
Awes: TO LAND THE LAND OF A SERIAL KILLER
THAT NATURE HAS NOW SOMEWHAT RECLAIMED IS ONE THING,
BUT TO STEP INSIDE HIS PRIVATE LAIR IS QUITE ANOTHER.
♪♪
THIS IS ALL HIS STUFF. I MEAN, EVERYTHING IN HERE.
YEP.
POSTERS ON THE WALL. THE TOOLS.
LOOK AT THIS.
THAT'S A CHRISTMAS COFFEE CUP.
DO YOU THINK THAT THAT'S THERE SINCE...
THE DAY HE KILLED MEAGAN.
...THE DAY HE KILLED MEAGAN?
♪♪
HE'S EVEN GOT -- IT'S LIKE, THE STOCKPILE OF STUFF.
I MEAN, ALL THIS...
IT LOOKS LIKE THEY CAME THROUGH AND JUST LOOKED...
DUMPED IT....AND JUST DUMPED IT.
IT'S EVERYWHERE.
HE'D BRING KALA IN HERE. AND THIS WAS THE BED.
HE HAD A U-BOLT THAT WENT THROUGH THE WALL,
WHERE HE COULD CHAIN HER WHEN SHE WAS HERE.
WHERE THAT HOLE IS.WHERE THAT HOLE IS.
TO BE CHAINED UP IN HERE
OR CHAINED UP IN THAT SHIPPING CONTAINER?
I JUST CAN'T -- I JUST CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE.
GOING THROUGH THE GARAGE,
THERE ARE THINGS THAT REMIND ME OF EACH OF THE CRIMES
TODD COMMITTED -- A MOTORCYCLE MODEL FOR SUPERBIKE,
THE MATTRESS HE USED IN KALA'S ASSAULT,
THE CHRISTMAS COFFEE CUP FROM MEAGAN COXIE,
KILLED ON CHRISTMAS DAY,
DRAWERS FILLED WITH WEAPONS MANUALS.
BUT IN THE END, IT'S HARD FOR ME TO SAY
WHETHER BEING INSIDE OR OUTSIDE THE GARAGE IS MORE UNSETTLING.
THIS LEADS UP TO THE FRONT GATE, AND ON THE WAY,
IT LEADS RIGHT AROUND TO THE SHIPPING CONTAINER.
RIGHT HERE IS WHERE THE SHIPPING CONTAINER WAS SITTING.
ON THESE BLOCKS.RIGHT BACK THERE?
YEP.SO, I KNOW HE BURIED
JOHNNY AND MEAGAN NEAR THE SHIPPING CONTAINER.
DO YOU KNOW -- DID HE TELL YOU WHERE THAT WAS?
HE DID. HE SAID IT WAS RIGHT ACROSS
FROM THE SHIPPING CONTAINERS.
SO, RIGHT OVER IN THIS AREA.
HE BURIED JOHNNY RIGHT OVER IN HERE.
AND THEN, HE SAID MEAGAN WAS ABOUT 20 FEET TO THE LEFT,
SO SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN OVER IN THAT AREA.
Awes: SO THEIR GRAVE SITES THEN WERE RIGHT OVER HERE
BY WHERE ALL THIS CRIME-SCENE CAUTION TAPE IS.
THAT'S CORRECT. YEAH.
TODD TELLS ME THAT AFTER HE KILLS MEAGAN,
HE THROWS THE HONEY BUNS AND DR. PEPPER HE'D GOTTEN HER
AS A TREAT THAT DAY INTO HER GRAVE,
THEN HE CLEANS UP THE SHIPPING CONTAINER,
WHICH HE WILL USE AGAIN NINE MONTHS LATER TO KEEP KALA BROWN.
♪♪
WHEN IT COMES TO SOME OF THE MURDERS,
TODD TELLS ME HE HAS REGRETS.
FOR OTHERS, NOT SO MUCH.
RIGHT. WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT JOHNNY --
WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT JOHNNY COXIE IN PARTICULAR
AND HIM PULLING A KNIFE ON YOU, YOU KNOW, WOULD YOU GO SO FAR
SO SAY YOU FEEL LIKE HE DESERVED TO DIE?
LOOKING BACK AT WHAT YOU'VE DONE,
WHAT REGRETS, IF ANY, DO YOU HAVE?
AND WHAT ABOUT BEVERLY GUY?
YOU'VE MENTIONED HER TO ME BEFORE.
IT'S A STRANGE THING TO HEAR
HOW A SERIAL KILLER VIEWS THINGS.
HOW HE DECIDES WHETHER SOMEONE SHOULD LIVE OR DIE.
TOM CLARK, THE MAN WHO INTERROGATED TODD,
BELIEVES PART OF HIS MOTIVATION
CAME DOWN TO SOMETHING QUITE BASIC.
MY OPINION IS, JOHNNY AND CHARLIE
WERE IN TODD'S WAY FROM HIM GETTING THE WOMEN THE HE WANTED.
FROM HIM GETTING THE POSSESSIONS THAT HE WANTED.
Awes: TODD SEEMS TO BE GETTING MORE AND MORE CANDID,
TELLING ME ABOUT THE CRIMES THE WORLD KNEW ABOUT,
AS IF WE'VE REACHED A STAGE WHERE NOTHING IS OFF LIMITS.
IN OUR VERY FIRST PHONE CALL, HE SAYS THERE ARE MORE VICTIMS,
BUT AS TIME GOES ON, I WONDER IF IT'S TRUE.
IS HE EVER GOING TO COME CLEAN?
HE TELLS ME HE PARTICIPATED IN A HUMAN HUNT CLUB IN 2005,
KILLING DRUG DEALERS IN JUáREZ, MEXICO,
IN THE YEARS AFTER THE SUPERBIKE MURDERS.
SOMETHING THE FBI ACTIVELY INVESTIGATING.
BUT AS FOR MURDERS BEFORE THE BIKE SHOP,
IT TURNS OUT THERE'S ANOTHER HUNT CLUB
I SHOULD BE ASKING ABOUT.
THERE'S AN APARTMENT COMPLEX IN SPARTANBURG
ACTUALLY CALLED THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENTS.
TODD IS LIVING THERE IN 2003,
WHEN SOMEONE FINDS OUT HE'S A REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER.
IT'S UPON HIS RETURN FROM ARIZONA
WHERE HE SERVED A 15-YEAR PRISON SENTENCE
FOR RAPING HIS TEENAGE NEIGHBOR.
[ CAR DOOR CLOSES ]
DID SOMETHING HAPPEN AT THE APARTMENT COMPLEX AFTER THIS?
CAN YOU TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT?
WHAT DID THEY --
AND THEY'RE NO LONGER WITH US.
♪♪
Awes: WHEN TODD KOHLHEPP SAYS TWO PEOPLE WHO HARASSED HIM
ARE NO LONGER WITH US, I BELIEVE I KNOW WHAT HE MEANS --
HE KILLED THEM.
BUT HOW DO I KNOW THAT TODD IS TELLING THE TRUTH?
I TRY TO PIN HIM DOWN ABOUT THE DETAILS.
WHAT DID THEY LOOK LIKE? DID YOU KNOW THEM, OR...?
AND WHAT HAPPENED?
TODD NEVER GIVES ME THE MEN'S NAMES,
AND THEIR WALLETS ARE NEVER FOUND
IN ANY SEARCH OF TODD'S PROPERTIES.
STILL, SOME OF WHAT TODD ALLEGES ENDS UP CHECKING OUT.
HE HAD BEEN HARASSED,
WHICH IS VERIFIED BY POLICE REPORTS HE FILES AT THE TIME.
NOT ONLY THAT, TODD CLARK, THE SAME MAN WHO INTERROGATED
TODD IN 2016 ABOUT SUPERBIKE, THE COXIES,
AND CHARLIE CARVER, HEARS AT THE TIME
THAT TODD IS BEING HARASSED FROM THE APARTMENT COMPLEX'S MANAGER.
I WAS THE COURTESY OFFICER FOR HUNT CLUB APARTMENT COMPLEX
AND FOUND OUT THAT HE WAS LIVING THERE.
THE MANAGER AT THE APARTMENT COMPLEX HAD MADE COMMENT TO ME
THAT HE WAS UPSET AND HAD MADE COMMENTS TO HER
THAT HE WAS BEING HARASSED.
HE WANTED TO KNOW
HOW HE COULD BE TAKE OFF OF THE SEX-OFFENDER REGISTRY.
DIDN'T GO INTO A LOT OF DETAIL.
BUT HE WAS VERY UPSET.
Awes: FOR THE RECORD, FEW STATES ALLOW SOMEONE TO BE REMOVED
FROM A SEX-OFFENDER LIST ONCE THEY'RE ON IT.
TODD ENDS UP TELLING HIS BIOGRAPHER GARY GARRETT
MUCH MORE ABOUT THE ALLEGED MURDERS OF TWO VICTIMS
AT THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENTS, WHICH HE THEN SHARES WITH ME.
TODD CONTENDS THAT THE TWO MEN APPROACHED HIM FIRST.
Garrett: SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 10:30 AND 11:30,
THEY APPROACHED HIM IN THE PARKING LOT.
THE CLOSET ONE TO HIM, HE SAID THE GUY REACHED OUT HIS KNIFE,
HE SLASHED HIM ON THE BACK SIDE OF HIS ARM,
STABBED HIM RIGHT UP IN THE LEG,
AND HE SAID THAT HE HIT ARTERIES THERE,
AND THEN HE STABBED A GUY IN THE CHEST.
ANOTHER GUY WAS BEHIND HIM.
HE SAID HE STABBED HIM IN THE NECK.
♪♪
HE RAN INTO HIS APARTMENT, CARRIED PITCHERS OF WATER
AND DUMPING PITCHERS OF WATER ON THE BLOOD IN THE PARKING LOT.
♪♪
Awes: THEN TODD TELLS GARY HOW DISPOSED OF THE BODIES.
Garrett: TOOK THEM DOWN A FRONTAGE ROAD
WITH A ROAD AT THE END, AND AT THE END THERE'S LIKE
A BIG SIGN ACROSS THE ROAD.
HE SAYS HE PULLED UP THERE
AND THEN DRUG THE BODIES BACK BEHIND THERE.
HE DIDN'T GIVE, LIKE, A SPECIFIC LOCATION,
BUT HE SAID HE WENT DOWN INTERSTATE 26.
Awes: NEAR WHAT PART OF THE INTERSTATE?
NEAR WHAT CITY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?
BEFORE COLUMBIA.
HE DID NOT THINK THEY'D EVER BEEN FOUND.
Awes: IT'S VERY UNSETTLING INFORMATION,
BUT I ALSO BELIEVE IT'S IN THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY
THAT TODD HAS DONE THIS.
I'M LEFT WITH TWO QUESTIONS.
FIRST, WAS ANYONE REPORTED MISSING IN OR AROUND THE AREA
OF THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENTS IN THE SUMMER OF 2003?
WE CHECKED WITH THE CITY OF SPARTANBURG,
ALL OF THE COUNTIES IN THE STATE, AND ON NamUs,
WHICH IS THE NATIONAL MISSING AND UNIDENTIFIED PERSONS SYSTEM,
AND WE CAN'T FIND ANY MATCHING MISSING-PERSONS REPORTS.
SECOND, WE ASK IF ANY UNIDENTIFIED REMAINS
HAVE BEEN FOUND BURIED NEAR EACH OTHER
THAT COULD MATCH UP TO THESE TWO ALLEGED VICTIMS.
AND THE ANSWER IS NO.
SO, IF THIS IS A TRUE STORY, IF WE ARE TO BELIEVE
TODD KOHLHEPP, THESE VICTIMS HAVE YET TO BE FOUND.
ONE THING IS FOR CERTAIN --
I FEEL LIKE MY TIMING OF MY INTERVIEW
WITH THE SHERIFF COULDN'T BE BETTER.
IT'S FINALLY MAY 8, 2018 -- THE DATE OF THE INTERVIEW.
TODAY'S THE DAY THAT I'M GONNA SIT DOWN WITH
SHERIFF CHUCK WRIGHT.
I HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT ALL OF THE DIFFERENT CASES
THAT ARE ALL WRAPPED UP WITH TODD KOHLHEPP.
WE'LL SEE WHAT THE SHERIFF HAS TO SAY.
♪♪
Awes: IT DID TAKE ME ABOUT A YEAR
TO GET THIS INTERVIEW WITH YOU.
WAS THERE A HESITANCY TO DO THIS?
WAS THERE A HESITANCY FOR ME TO DO THIS INTERVIEW?
YES, THERE WAS.
THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE, FAMILY MEMBERS OF THE CASE,
BASICALLY, THEY HAD THEIR OWN THEORIES,
AND SOME OF THEM DIDN'T TRY TO MAKE US LOOK LIKE
WE WERE TRYING REAL HARD.
IT WAS A LITTLE STRENUOUS TO THINK ABOUT DOING ANOTHER
INTERVIEW BECAUSE OUR TEAM DID THE BEST THAT WE COULD DO,
AND I JUST THOUGHT --
I SAID, "WELL, IF I WANT THE TRUTH TO BE OUT THERE
MAYBE I'M THE ONE THAT SHOULD BE TELLING IT."
♪♪
Awes: IN THIS INTERVIEW, WHICH HAS TAKEN ALMOST A YEAR TO GET,
I WANT TO GIVE SHERIFF CHUCK WRIGHT
THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT, A FAIR CHANCE TO RESPOND
TO SOME TOUGH QUESTIONS,
BUT FIRST, I WANT TO REMIND HIM
OF THE ONE AND ONLY TIME WE MET,
AT TODD'S SENTENCING BACK IN 2017.
Awes: I ONLY MET YOU ONCE UP UNTIL NOW.
IT WAS IN A NEWS CONFERENCE RIGHT AFTER
TODD KOHLHEPP'S SENTENCING.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER ME.
IN ALL OF THE CONVERSATIONS YOU'VE HAD WITH HIM,
YOU'RE CONFIDENT THAT THERE AREN'T ANY OTHER VICTIMS?
YOU'RE WEARING A NICE DRESS.
AND I AIN'T GONNA ANSWER THAT ONE.
SHERIFF WRIGHT DOESN'T SEEM TO WANT TO DISCUSS
THAT EXCHANGE, BUT HE SEEMS TO BE MAKING A GENUINE ATTEMPT
TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT HAVE HAUNTED THIS CASE.
I TELL HIM I STILL WANT AN ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION --
WHETHER HE THINKS TODD KOHLHEPP
COULD HAVE MURDERED OTHER PEOPLE.
YOU DIDN'T ANSWER QUESTION, AND...
I'LL ANSWER IT TODAY, IF YOU WANT TO ASK IT.
I'D LIKE TO ASK THAT QUESTION AGAIN.
DO YOU THINK, TODAY, THAT TODD KOHLHEPP HAS MORE VICTIMS
THAN THE SEVEN THAT WAS SENTENCED FOR?
UM, I AM NOT SURE.
I DON'T HAVE ANY EVIDENCE TO POINT TO ANYBODY,
OR ELSE WE WOULD BE OUT TAKING CARE OF IT TODAY.
IT'S VERY POSSIBLE THERE'S MORE VICTIMS.
Awes: I'M GLAD TO HEAR THAT THE SHERIFF IS OPEN
TO THAT POSSIBILITY.
AND EVEN THOUGH I'VE FORMED MY OWN CONCLUSIONS,
I ALSO WANT TO ASK HIM ABOUT SUPERBIKE
AND SOME OF THE LINGERING INCONGRUITIES
BETWEEN TODD'S STORY AND THE CRIME SCENE.
TODD KOHLHEPP HAD SAID HE SHOT EVERYONE IN THE FOREHEAD.
THEY WERE SHOT IN THE HEAD BUT NOT THE FOREHEAD.
DO YOU THINK THAT IS
REASON TO BELIEVE HE DIDN'T DO SUPERBIKE?
NO. BECAUSE IT WAS 13 YEARS AGO.
I DON'T THINK IT'S A GOOD ENOUGH REASON TO NOT BELIEVE HIM.
THE AMMO THAT HE USED, IT MATCHED IT EXACTLY.
IT WAS SPECIFICALLY EXACTLY AS HE SAID IT WAS.
SO TODD INDICATED HE HAD USED
THE REMINGTON BRASS SUBSONIC 147-GRAIN BULLETS
AND FEDERAL 135-GRAIN HYDRA SHOK BULLETS
THAT WERE NICKEL.
ALL THAT MATCHED. ALL THE SPECIFICS ON THE BRASS,
THE CALIBERS, THE SUBSONICS, ALL OF THAT MATCHED PERFECTLY.
Awes: THE SHERIFF IS RIGHT.
THE TYPES OF BULLETS TODD SAYS WERE USED ARE A MATCH
TO THOSE AT THE SCENE, BUT THE SHERIFF CAN'T COMMENT ON
THE FACT THAT THE ORDER IN WHICH TODD SAYS HE FIRED THEM
AND FROM WHERE DOESN'T MATCH UP WITH THE EXACT PLACEMENT
OF THE CASINGS LEFT BEHIND AT THE SHOP.
THERE WAS A LOT OF DETAILS THAT HE TALKED WITH
THE INVESTIGATORS AND OUR SOLICITOR ABOUT,
THAT HONESTLY, I WASN'T PRIVY TO.
I ASKED THE TEAM, I SAID, "ARE WE 100% SURE
THAT HE'S NOT JUST TRYING TO MAKE A NEWS STORY FOR HIMSELF?"
AND THEY CAME BACK, AND THEY SAID,
"100% THIS IS OUR GUY."
IT WAS TO MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE LUCAS FAMILY
GAVE A LIST TO THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT.
THIS CUSTOMER LIST WASN'T PROVIDED
TO THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT IN 2005.
YOU KNOW, HIS NAME DID APPEAR ON THIS LIST.
HE PURCHASED A BIKE THERE BACK IN APRIL OF THAT YEAR.
RIGHT.
WHY DIDN'T YOU GUYS LOOK AT THAT?
WHAT DO YOU SAY?
I'M NOT SURE THAT IT WASN'T BY THE OTHER TEAM
BEFORE I TOOK OVER AT THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE.
I DON'T KNOW.
IT WASN'T DOCUMENTED THAT IT WAS.
COULD WE HAVE TALKED TO TODD AND GOT THE CASE SOLVED EARLIER?
I DON'T KNOW.
I DON'T THINK SO.
WE REACHED OUT TO THAT LIST BY LETTERS,
ASKING THEM TO PLEASE COME FORWARD.
I THINK THAT THE LETTERS THAT WENT OUT WERE
AFTER THE 10-YEAR ANNIVERSARY, IS MY UNDERSTANDING.
Awes: ACCORDING TO THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE,
TODD KOHLHEPP NEVER RESPONDS TO THE LETTER.
THERE WAS NOTHING IN HIS BACKGROUND OF TODD KOHLHEPP
OR ANYBODY ELSE THAT WOULD SAY, YEAH, HE'S GONNA BE
PROBABLY OUR NUMBER-ONE SUSPECT.
YOU KNOW, HE'D HAD THE CRIMINAL SEXUAL CONDUCT THING
WHEN HE WAS A YOUNGER TEENAGER IN ARIZONA.
THAT DIDN'T SCREAM, "I CAN KILL FOUR PEOPLE."
DO I THINK MISTAKES WERE MADE BEFORE I INHERITED THE CASE?
YEAH, I DO.
MATTER OF FACT, I KNOW THERE WAS.
THERE WAS AN ENTIRE ROOM THAT WASN'T EVEN PROCESSED.
THE ROOM THAT WAS MISSED WAS AN OFFICE.
Awes: THE SHERIFF SAYS THERE ISN'T ANYTHING IMPORTANT
TO THE CASE ULTIMATELY FOUND IN THAT OFFICE.
HE ALSO WANTS TO ADDRESS
THE MISTAKE THAT WAS MADE WITH THE BLOOD SAMPLES
THAT TEMPORARILY RESULTED IN MELISSA BRACKMAN,
THE WIFE OF SUPERBIKE OWNER SCOTT PONDER,
BEING TREATED LIKE A SUSPECT IN HER OWN HUSBAND'S MURDER.
THERE WAS A MIS-LABELING OF THE BLOOD.
THAT DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH OUR TEAM.
THAT CAME FROM ANOTHER AGENCY.
THANK GOD, BECAUSE OF SOME THINGS
THAT WE WERE STILL TRYING TO WORK OUT ON THE CASE,
IT CAME OUT BEFORE IT WAS, YOU KNOW, REALLY A HUGE ISSUE.
EVERYBODY WAS A SUSPECT UNTIL WE COULD FIGURE OUT WHO DID IT.
LET'S TALK ABOUT MEAGAN AND JOHNNY COXIE
FOR A LITTLE BIT.
I THINK THAT THEIR FAMILIES,
IN TERMS OF JUST MY CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM,
I THINK THEY FEEL LIKE THEIR MISSING-PERSONS CASES
WEREN'T TAKEN AS SERIOUSLY AS KALA AND CHARLIE CARVER'S.
THAT'S NOT FAIR TO SAY.
WE HAVE TO GO ON WHAT WE CAN -- WHAT PEOPLE PROVIDE US.
WE RAN DOWN EVERY LEAD THAT WE COULD FIND,
AND THEN WHEN IT RAN OUT, YOU KNOW,
THEN OBVIOUSLY WE WERE STUCK AND DIDN'T HAVE ANY MORE ANSWERS.
ONE OF THE WAYS KALA WAS FOUND HAD TO DO
WITH THE PINGING OF THE CELLPHONES
AND TRYING TO TRACK WHERE THE CELLPHONES WERE.
THE SEARCH WARRANT FOR THE COXIES' PHONES,
AT LEAST THE ONE THAI I CAN FIND,
ISN'T DATED UNTIL AFTER KOHLHEPP WAS ARRESTED.
YEAH, CAN I TAKE A BREAK, TOO, PLEASE?
DO YOU MIND?
NO, THAT'S FINE. I KNOW -- OKAY.
I ACTUALLY WANT TO CALL WILLIAM GARY
AND ASK HIM ABOUT THE COXIES
AND WHY WE HADN'T PINGED THEIR PHONES.
THAT IS PROBABLY A GOOD QUESTION YOU SHOULD ASK.
Awes: WILLIAM GARY, THE LIEUTENANT HE LEAVES
TO GO CALL, IS AN INVESTIGATOR ON THE COXIE CASE.
I DON'T BLAME THE SHERIFF FOR WANTING TO REACH OUT
TO HIM TO GET THE STORY STRAIGHT.
I WANT THAT, TOO.
HE COMES BACK WITH AN ANSWER.
LOOK, YOU SAID THE FAMILY THINKS THAT IF WE PINGED
THE CELLPHONES OF THE COXIES EARLIER,
WE MIGHT HAVE COULD HAVE SOLVED IT, OKAY?
WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THEM IS THEY WERE PANHANDLING
ON BLACKSOD ROAD.
NO MENTION OF A CELLPHONE THAT WE HAVE ON RECORD.
SO WE DIDN'T HAVE A REASON TO KNOW THAT THEY EVEN HAD A PHONE.
BECAUSE IF YOU'RE PANHANDLING, MOST OF THE TIME,
YOU DON'T HAVE MONEY FOR A CELLPHONE.
IF WE DIDN'T KNOW THEY HAD A CELLPHONE,
WE DON'T KNOW TO PING IT.
Awes: WHAT THE SHERIFF SAYS ABOUT HIS INVESTIGATORS
NOT KNOWING MEAGAN COXIE HAD A PHONE
WHEN SHE DISAPPEARED SIMPLY ISN'T TRUE.
A POLICE REPORT SHOWS INVESTIGATOR MICHAEL WALSH
CALLED MEAGAN'S PHONE ON DECEMBER 23rd,
FOUR DAYS AFTER SHE WENT MISSING,
AND LEARNED HER VOICEMAIL BOX WAS FULL.
AT THE TIME, MEAGAN'S MOTHER
MARY McCRAW WANTED THEM TO GO ONE STEP FURTHER.
I SPECIFICALLY ASKED HIM TO PING HER PHONE.
AND HE SAID HE COULDN'T DO IT
BECAUSE IT WAS AN INVITATION OF HER PRIVACY.
AND I SAID, "EVEN IF I PAY THE BILL ON THE PHONE,
IT'S AN INVASION OF HER PRIVACY?"
AND HE WAS LIKE, "YEAH."
Awes: I DIDN'T LOCATE THE REPORT
STATING INVESTIGATORS CALLED MEAGAN'S PHONE
UNTIL AFTER MY MEETING WITH THE SHERIFF,
OR I WOULD HAVE ASKED HIM MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS.
TODD HIMSELF SAYS HE THREW MEAGAN'S PHONE AWAY.
AT THE TIME OF OUR INTERVIEW, THE SHERIFF WAS CONFIDENT
HIS TEAM DID EVERYTHING THEY COULD.
IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU WOULD SAY ABSOLUTELY
SPARTANBURG COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE
TOOK THAT CASE AS SERIOUSLY AS AN OTHER
MISSING-PERSONS CASE.
IN THE COXIE CASE, WE REALLY DID.
AND WE CAN ONLY GO ON THE INFORMATION THAT WE'RE GIVEN.
YEAH, WE TOOK IT VERY SERIOUSLY.
Awes: THE INTERVIEW I CONDUCT WITH THE SHERIFF LASTS
OVER TWO HOURS.
WE TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE DISCOVERIES
I'VE MADE BY TALKING TO PEOPLE CONNECTED TO THAT CASE
AND BY GOING THROUGH THE FILES
I ACCESSED THROUGH MY FREEDOM-OF-INFORMATION REQUEST.
IT'S CLEAR TO ME THAT THE SPARTANBURG COUNTY
SHERIFF'S OFFICE HAS AT TIMES BEEN OVERWHELMED
BY TODD KOHLHEPP'S MULTIPLE AND EXTREMELY DISTURBING HOMICIDES.
ONE OF THE MOST POIGNANT PARTS OF THE INTERVIEW
IS HIS REFLECTION ON THE DAY KALA BROWN IS FOUND ALIVE.
IT WAS A LIFE-CHANGING EXPERIENCE.
IT WAS PRETTY EMOTIONAL TO SAY THE LEAST.
YOU KNOW, SHE WAS CHAINED LIKE A DOG.
SHE HAD A CHAIN AROUND HER NECK.
LOOKING BACK ON IT NOW, I HAD NO IDEA
WHAT KIND OF THINGS THAT WE WERE ABOUT TO UNCOVER.
TODD KOHLHEPP WAS BROUGHT TO THE PROPERTY
AND SHOWED US WHERE THE COXIES WERE.
I WENT OVER. HE WAS HANDCUFFED, OBVIOUSLY,
AND SHACKLED, AND...
HE WAS IN THE BACK OF ONE OF OUR SUVs.
AND I WENT OVER AND OPENED THE DOOR AND TALKED TO HIM,
AND HE SAID,
"I'VE ALWAYS HAD A GREAT DEAL OF RESPECT FOR YOU, SHERIFF."
AND I JUST LET HIM TALK, AND...
I PRAYED WITH HIM.
WHEN I FOUND OUT ABOUT SUPERBIKE, WE GOT ON OUR
HANDS AND KNEES AND SAID A PRAYER OF THANKSGIVING
ABOUT THIS CASE BEING SOLVED.
AND IT WAS VERY EMOTIONAL, I DON'T MIND TELLING YOU.
IT TOOK US A LONG TIME THAT DAY TO RUN ALL THE FAMILIES DOWN.
AND I WAS NOT GONNA TELL ANYONE
THAT THIS CASE HAD BEEN SOLVED UNTIL THEY KNEW FIRST.
NOW, THE SHERBERT FAMILY, WE NEVER GOT TO GET TO THEM.
AND I WASN'T AWARE OF THIS UNTIL AFTER THE NEWS WAS MADE PUBLIC.
I FELT VERY BAD THAT THE SHERBERT FAMILY
HAD TO HEAR THIS ON THE NEWS.
Awes: JUST LIKE IN 2003, WHEN THE FAMILY HAD TO LEARN
ABOUT CHRIS SHERBERT'S DEATH WHEN IT HIT THE NEWS,
THEY HAD TO LEARN OF THE KILLER'S ARREST THE SAME WAY.
DO YOU THINK THAT WITHOUT TODD KOHLHEPP COMING FORWARD
AND ADMITTING TO SUPERBIKE,
WOULD THAT CASE HAVE BEEN SOLVED?
I WOULD LIKE TO SAY YES, WE WOULD HAVE,
BUT THAT'S SIMPLY A GUESS.
I HAD SAID SOMETHING TO SOME PEOPLE AND TO THE FAMILY, TOO.
I SAID, "THAT IS TOO HEAVY.
YOU CANNOT SNUFF OUT FOUR LIVES,
YOU CANNOT TAKE FOUR LIVES
WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO TALK ABOUT IT."
AND I WAS RIGHT THE WHOLE TIME.
Awes: WHAT THE SHERIFF SAYS MAKES ME WONDER IF THE REASON
TODD TELLS ME HE KILLED TWO MORE VICTIMS
AT THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENTS IN 2003 IS BECAUSE THAT IS NOW
WEIGHING HEAVILY ON HIM, TOO.
IF I'M EVER GOING TO GET TO THE TRUTH,
I NEED THE SHERIFF'S HELP.
HE'S KNOWN FROM THE MOMENT I WENT TO
THE SPARTANBURG COUNTY JAIL A YEAR EARLIER THAT
TODD IS TALKING TO ME FOR THIS DOCUMENTARY.
IN A RECENT CONVERSATION WITH ME,
HE TALKED ABOUT TWO INDIVIDUALS
WHO WERE HARASSING HIM ARE NO LONGER WITH US.
AND I SAID, "DID YOU KILL THESE PEOPLE?"
HE EXPLAINED THAT.
AND HE SAID, "WELL, THEY'RE NO LONGER WITH US."
AND I PRESSED HIM FOR SOME DETAILS.
AND THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE TIME FRAME
BEFORE THE SUPERBIKE MURDERS
BUT AFTER HIS MOTORCYCLE WAS STOLEN, IN 2003.
TWO INDIVIDUALS ASSAULTED HIM
AT THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENTS.
ONE OF THEM HAD A HAMMER.
ONE OF THEM HAD A KNIFE.
I ASKED HIM IF HE KNEW WHO THESE INDIVIDUALS WERE.
HE SAID HE HAD THEIR WALLETS, HE HAD THEIR NAMES.
HE DOESN'T REMEMBER WHO THEY WERE.
DIDN'T KNOW THEM.
I HAVEN'T HAD ANY SPECIFIC INFORMATION AT ALL ABOUT,
YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE THAT HAVE WENT MISSING.
FROM DAY ONE, I HAVE SAID ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS,
AND I'LL SAY IT AGAIN, WHEN HE REACHES OUT
AND WANTS TO TELL ME IF THERE ARE MORE VICTIMS,
ON IT RIGHT NOW.
I MEAN, IF I GET THE PHONE CALL WHILE SITTING IN THIS INTERVIEW,
I'LL HAVE SOMEBODY GO GET HIM NOW.
BUT IT HASN'T HAPPENED YET,
SO A LOT OF IT'S JUST SPECULATION.
IF I AM ABLE TO BRING YOU MORE INFORMATION FROM HIM,
THAT YOU COULD ALSO GO INVESTIGATE OBVIOUSLY...
ABSOLUTELY I WILL.
ABSOLUTELY YOU WILL?
YES.
I DON'T REALLY CARE HOW THE INFORMATION GETS TO ME.
I DO CARE THAT THE INFORMATION DOES GET TO ME.
I DON'T HAVE A PRIDE ISSUE HERE, YOU KNOW?
THIS IS ABOUT THE VICTIMS.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT WHO LOOKS GOOD AND WHO DID WHAT.
AND IF YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ESTABLISH A RELATIONSHIP
WITH HIM, YOU KNOW, GOOD.
AND IF YOU CAN HELP US WITH THAT, EVEN BETTER.
♪♪
Awes: EVER SINCE I STARTED INVESTIGATING THE LIFE
AND CRIMES OF SERIAL KILLER TODD KOHLHEPP TWO YEARS AGO,
THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN A BIG MYSTERY LURKING IN THE SHADOWS.
DID HE KILL MORE PEOPLE THAN THE SEVEN WE KNOW ABOUT?
HE ALLUDED TO IT IN THE FIRST PHONE CONVERSATION
I HAD WITH HIM IN MAY OF 2017.
ARE YOU SAYING THAT IT'S MORE THAN SEVEN?
WHEN HE TELLS ME HE STABBED TWO ADDITIONAL VICTIMS
AT HUNT CLUB APARTMENTS BACK IN 2003
AND DISPOSED OF THEIR BODIES,
IT SEEMS TODD KOHLHEPP MIGHT FINALLY BE COMING CLEAN.
♪♪
I HAVE THE SPARTANBURG COUNTY SHERIFF'S PROMISE
THAT HE WILL INVESTIGATE
IF KOHLHEPP CAN NARROW DOWN A SEARCH AREA.
HE ASSIGNS CAPTAIN STEVE COOPER TO BE MY LIAISON
WITH THE DEPARTMENT, AND WE TALK ABOUT HOW TO PROCEED.
INVESTIGATORS ARE WILLING TO SPEND THE TIME AND MONEY
TO SEARCH FOR THE TWO BODIES,
BUT THEY'RE STILL WARY OF TODD'S NEW CLAIMS.
IN FACT, THERE'S A MAJOR CONTRADICTION.
IF TODD REALLY STABBED TWO PEOPLE TO DEATH
AT THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENTS,
IT WOULD MEAN HE LIED IN HIS INTERROGATION WITH TOM CLARK
WHEN HE SAID HE NEVER STABBED ANYONE.
SO IS HE TELLING THE TRUTH NOW,
OR WAS HE TELLING THE TRUTH THEN?
IT'S NO WONDER THE SPARTANBURG COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE
IS SKEPTICAL, AND SO AM I.
BUT JUST WHEN I THINK HE MIGHT BE LYING,
I GET AN UNEXPECTED REMINDER
THAT TODD OFTEN DOES TELL THE TRUTH.
IT COMES FROM A WOMAN IN TEMPE, ARIZONA,
WHO SUSPECTED HE RAPED HER BACK IN 1986.
HER ATTACK OCCURRED AROUND THE SAME TIME
AND IN THE SAME NEIGHBORHOOD
WHERE HE RAPED HIS 14-YEAR-OLD NEIGHBOR, KRISTIE.
ALTHOUGH THERE ARE SUSPICIONS TO THE CONTRARY,
TODD HAS ALWAYS SAID HE DIDN'T COMMIT THIS SECOND RAPE.
BUT THERE WAS NO WAY TO PROVE IT,
SINCE EVIDENCE IN THE UNSOLVED CASE HAVE BEEN DESTROYED.
OR SO THE VICTIM THOUGHT.
Woman: ABOUT TWO WEEKS AGO, I RECEIVED A REGISTERED LETTER
IN THE MAIL FROM THE TEMPE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
THEY HAD FOUND THIS FINGERPRINT CARD BACK FROM MY CASE IN 1986.
AND THEY JUST RECENTLY RAN IT,
AND THAT IT MATCHED A MAN BY THE NAME OF PAUL WAYNE BARNES.
HE WAS A SERIAL RAPIST,
AND HE IS A LEVEL-3 SEX OFFENDER,
AND THAT HE LIVES IN PRESCOTT VALLEY.
Awes: THIS APPEARS TO BE DEFINITIVE PROOF
TODD KOHLHEPP HADN'T COMMITTED THAT RAPE IN ARIZONA,
AND THAT HE WAS TELLING ME THE TRUTH.
BECAUSE THE STATUE OF LIMITATIONS
HAS RUN OUT ON THIS CASE,
PAUL WAYNE BARNES CAN'T BE CHARGED FOR THIS CRIME.
BUT AT LEAST THIS WOMAN, WHO PREFERS TO REMAIN UNIDENTIFIED,
NOW HAS SOME ANSWERS.
Woman: IT'S BECAUSE OF YOUR PUSHING, FOR SURE.
LIKE, ABSOLUTELY.
THEY -- THEY HAD NO INTEREST IN EVEN PURSUING IT.
Awes: I TELL TODD WHAT I LEARNED.
AND IN AN E-MAIL FROM JUNE 25, 2018, HE SAYS...
SO IF HE'S TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT THIS RAPE,
SHOULD I BELIEVE HE'S ALSO TELLING THE TRUTH
ABOUT STABBING TO DEATH TWO MEN HE SAYS HARASSED HIM
AT THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENTS BACK IN 2003?
THIS IS WHAT HE TOLD ME IN A PREVIOUS CALL.
WHOEVER THEY WERE, TODD SAYS HE KILLED THEM.
♪♪
Awes: I WANT TO ASK FORMER FBI PROFILER JOHN DOUGLAS
WHAT HIS OPINION IS ON WHETHER OUR QUEST
FOR THESE NEW ALLEGED VICTIMS MIGHT BE A WILD GOOSE CHASE.
BUT BEFORE I DO, I TELL HIM
THAT TODD WAS APPARENTLY TELLING THE TRUTH
ABOUT NOT RAPING A SECOND VICTIM IN TEMPE,
WHO SUSPECTED HE WAS HER ASSAILANT.
SHE GOT INFORMATION THAT A FINGERPRINT
THAT WAS TAKEN FROM HER BEDROOM DOOR
MATCHED TO A DIFFERENT LEVEL-3 SEX OFFENDER.
TODD WAS TELLING THE TRUTH, WHICH THERE WAS SOME DOUBT
AT THE TIME THAT HE DID NOT DO THAT RAPE.
AND SO THAT TELLS YOU HE'S TRUTHFUL.
HE'S NOT TRYING TO VOLUNTEER CASES THAT, YOU KNOW,
HE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH.
RIGHT, AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE NEXT THING.
HE DID REVEAL SOME INFORMATION ABOUT A COUPLE OF GUYS
THAT HE SAYS HE KILLED AT THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENTS,
WHICH IS WHERE HE WAS LIVING
AFTER HE MOVED BACK FROM ARIZONA.
JOHN SAYS HE NEEDS TO HEAR EVERY DETAIL OF TODD'S ACCOUNT
TO DECIDE IF HE FEELS LIKE TODD'S BEING HONEST.
THESE TWO INDIVIDUALS WHO CAME AT HIM AT HUNT CLUB
WERE HARASSING HIM.
ONE GUY HAS A KNIFE. THE OTHER HAS A HAMMER.
TODD SEES THEM.
HE GRABS TWO KNIVES WHICH HE HAS IN HIS POCKETS.
THE FIRST GUY, TODD SLICES HIM ON HIS WRIST.
AND THEN HE SAYS HE STABS THIS MAN IN THE CHEST.
OTHER GUY WITH THE HAMMER TRIES TO RUN AWAY.
TODD STABS HIM IN THE SIDE OF THE NECK.
I TELL JOHN TODD SAYS HE GOES TO HIS APARTMENT,
GETS THINGS TO WRAP THE BODIES IN,
PLACES ONE VICTIM IN THE PASSENGER SEAT,
AND THE OTHER IN THE TRUNK.
HE WASHES AWAY WHATEVER BLOOD EVIDENCE WAS LEFT THERE,
AND THEN HE TAKES OFF WITH THESE TWO GUYS IN HIS CAR.
THEN I TELL JOHN THE DETAILS OF HIS CLAIM
ABOUT DUMPING THE BODIES
SOMEWHERE ALONG A FRONTAGE ROAD NEXT TO I-26.
HE SAYS, "I PUT THE BODIES
BEHIND THE BARRICADE IN A RAVINE.
I'M SURPRISED NO ONE EVER FOUND THEM."
WHAT DO YOU THINK -- TELLING THE TRUTH,
MAKING UP A STORY?
MAYBE YOU'LL BE SURPRISED AT MY ANSWER,
BUT I REALLY THINK HE'S, UH --
I THINK HE'S TELLING THE TRUTH.
HE'S JUST VERY, VERY SPECIFIC.
AND LITTLE THINGS LIKE GETTING WATER AND COMING BACK DOWN,
AND WASHING AWAY THE BLOOD IN THE PARKING LOT.
THE OTHER THING TO IT IS IT'S NOT A FORM OF
BRAGGING LIKE, "THESE TWO BIG GUYS CAME UP TO ME,"
YOU KNOW, "AND THEY GOT THE BIGGEST KNIVES."
ONE GUY HAS A SMALL KNIFE.
THE OTHER GUY HAS A HAMMER.
I DON'T SEE BOASTING.
WHEN YOU START LOOKING AT HIM AND, LIKE, WHEN
AND WHY HE DOES THESE THINGS, THESE ARE TRIGGERING EVENTS.
THERE'S ALWAYS A TRIGGERING EVENT AROUND A PARTICULAR CRIME.
SO IN THIS CASE, THE HARASSMENT, POTENTIALLY,
IF HE REALLY WAS BEING HARASSED BY THESE PEOPLE.
HE'S GONNA GO BACK TO SURVIVAL TECHNIQUES HERE.
HE'S GONNA, YOU KNOW -- AND IT'S REVENGE.
IT'S RETALIATION.
THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE TOLD ME IF HE CAN IDENTIFY THE LOCATION,
WE CAN ALL GO OUT THERE AND LOOK FOR THESE PEOPLE.
AND HE SHOULD RECOGNIZE THE PLACE BECAUSE WAS NIGHTTIME.
AND GENERALLY, WHAT THEY DO IS THEY GO BACK.
THEY GO BACK TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE CONCEALED.
AND SO HE WOULD'VE BEEN BACK THERE,
I WOULD SAY, MORE THAN ONE TIME.
DOUGLAS BELIEVES THERE'S ONE THING WORTH TRYING
TO FIND THESE VICTIMS QUICKLY.
GET HIM OUT THERE IN SHACKLES,
AND LET HIM POINT OUT THE AREA.
THAT'S THE WAY TO SOLVE THE CASE.
I'M ENCOURAGED BY JOHN DOUGLAS' ASSESSMENT
THAT TODD MIGHT BE TELLING THE TRUTH.
WHILE I AGREE THAT THE BEST WAY TO PROCEED
WOULD BE TO BRING TODD OUT TO POSSIBLE LOCATIONS
IN SHACKLES, I KNOW THAT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN,
AT LEAST RIGHT AWAY.
I HEAD BACK TO SPARTANBURG COUNTY
TO WORK WITH GARY GARRETT, TODD KOHLHEPP'S BIOGRAPHER,
TO FIND FREEWAY EXITS THAT FIT THE DESCRIPTION
WHERE TODD SAYS HE PUT THE BODIES OF HIS ALLEGED VICTIMS.
THE SPARTANBURG COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE WANTS A MAP
OR PHOTOS OF THE LIKELY PLACES
TODD MIGHT HAVE DISPOSED OF THOSE BODIES BACK IN 2003.
SO GARY AND I POOL THE BITS AND PIECES OF THE STORY
HE'S TOLD EACH OF US --
THAT HE LEFT THE TWO BODIES SOMEWHERE BETWEEN SPARTANBURG
AND COLUMBIA LATE AT NIGHT IN A RAVINE NEAR
A "ROAD ENDS" SIGN.
I KNOW HE SAYS HE DOESN'T REMEMBER.
I DON'T KNOW, THOUGH.
HOW COULD YOU NOT REMEMBER?
I MEAN, HE'S FROM HERE.
I THINK HE DOES KNOW.
WE NEED TO GET TODD TO LOOK AT THE PHOTOS
WE'RE GOING TO TAKE OF THE LOCATIONS
THAT FIT THE DESCRIPTION,
TO SEE IF ANYTHING LOOKS FAMILIAR TO HIM.
BEFORE WE START OUT, WE FIND SIX POSSIBLE LOCATIONS
THAT MIGHT MAKE SENSE BASED ON THE FACT
THAT HE SAYS HE TOOK A RIGHT OFF THE INTERSTATE
AND A LEFT DOWN A FRONTAGE ROAD.
THREE OF THEM DON'T END UP MATCHING THE REST
OF THE DESCRIPTION TODD'S GIVEN.
THE OTHER THREE -- 28, 41, 54 -- HAVE FEATURES THAT DO.
THE FIRST IS EXIT 28 IN ROEBUCK.
IT MATCHES THE GENERAL DESCRIPTION OF RAVINES
BENEATH THE THICK TREE CANOPY,
BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHETHER THE BARRICADE HERE TODAY
HAS BEEN HERE SINCE 2003.
ALRIGHT. NEXT ONE.
THE SECOND IS EXIT 41 IN ENOREE.
THIS WOODED EXIT HAS RAVINES AND A BARRICADE
ACROSS A CRUMBLING ROAD.
THE ROAD ITSELF ENDS ABOUT 100 YARDS BEYOND THE SIGN.
IT SEEMS SECLUDED ENOUGH TO HIDE A BODY.
BUT LIKE EXIT 28, WE DON'T KNOW IF THIS SIGN WAS HERE IN 2003.
EXIT 54 IN LAURENS COUNTY IS THE LAST ON OUR LIST.
I'M READY TO RULE IT OUT
BECAUSE THE AREA LOOKS RECENTLY DEVELOPED,
AND LIKE ANYTHING BURIED HERE
WOULD'VE TURNED UP IN CONSTRUCTION.
BUT THEN, I SPOT SOMETHING IN THE WOODS
THAT DEFINITELY CHANGES MY MIND.
THAT IS INTERESTING.
Awes: GARY GARRETT AND I ARE TRYING TO LOCATE PLACES
THAT MATCH THE DESCRIPTION
OF WHERE TODD KOHLHEPP MAY HAVE BURIED TWO BODIES.
WE'RE AT EXIT 54 OFF 1-26 IN CLINTON, SOUTH CAROLINA.
LOOK AT THAT.
THAT IS INTERESTING.
THAT LOOKS LIKE A "ROAD CLOSED" SIGN.
OR "ROAD ENDS."YEAH, "ROAD ENDS."
YEAH.
SHOULD WE GO BACK THERE?YEAH, LET'S GO BACK IN THERE.
IS IT IN THE GROUND, OR IS IT --?
THAT TREE HAS GROWN THROUGH IT.
WHAT?THIS HAS BEEN HERE A WHILE.
SEE, THAT TREE'S GROWN THROUGH IT.
SO THIS HAS DEFINITELY BEEN --NO WAY.
IT'S GONE THROUGH HERE AND WEAVED ITSELF UP.
WHAT?THESE PINES GROW QUICK.
THESE HAVE BEEN HERE A WHILE,
SO THAT ROAD CAME DOWN HERE AT SOME POINT.
WITH EVERYTHING I'M SEEING, I HAVE TO WONDER,
ARE WE WALKING ON A BURIAL SITE?
SEE, THERE'S A RAVINE OVER HERE.
BUT THAT JUST SEEMS LIKE A LONG WAY
TO DRAG A BODY FROM OVER THERE.
WELL, YOU'D WANT THEM TO BE BACK FAR ENOUGH, RIGHT?
YEAH, YEAH.
WELL, WHAT KIND OF SHAPE WAS HE IN THEN?
HE WAS IN REALLY GOOD SHAPE THEN.
HE HADN'T BEEN OUT OF PRISON LONG.
HE WAS -- HE WAS A PRETTY STRONG GUY.
I MEAN, IF YOU WERE DRAGGING -- AND THEY WERE SUPPOSEDLY
WRAPPED UP, RIGHT, IN LIKE, A COMFORTER OR SOMETHING.
YEAH, COMFORTER.
WE'LL SEND THESE PHOTOS TO TODD AND ASK HIM TO DECIDE
IF A SPECIFIC LOCATION LOOKS PROMISING.
ONCE HE'S WEIGHED IN,
WE'LL MEET WITH THE SHERIFF'S INVESTIGATORS TO DECIDE
IF THERE'S ENOUGH TO GO ON TO WARRANT A SEARCH.
♪♪
IT ONLY TAKES A COUPLE OF WEEKS FOR TODD KOHLHEPP
TO GET THE PHOTOS GARY AND I TOOK,
AND TO WEIGH IN ON WHERE THE BODIES OF THE ALLEGED
HUNT CLUB APARTMENT VICTIMS FROM 2003 MIGHT BE.
FROM THE FRONTAGE ROADS ALONG 1-26 BETWEEN SPARTANBURG
AND COLUMBIA THAT MATCH HIS INITIAL DESCRIPTION,
TODD CHOOSES TO POSSIBLE BURIAL SITES --
EXIT 41 IN ENOREE, AND EXIT 54 IN CLINTON.
THE SPARTANBURG COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE ASSEMBLES A TEAM
THAT WILL ASSESS THE INFORMATION WE HAVE
AND DECIDE WHETHER IT'S ENOUGH TO WARRANT A SEARCH.
BEFORE WE MEET, THEY ASSIGN INVESTIGATORS
TO GO TO THE PRISON AND TALK TO TODD.
FOR THE MOST PART, WHAT HE TELLS THEM
ABOUT THE ALLEGED HUNT CLUB APARTMENT MURDERS
SEEMS TO MATCH THE ACCOUNTS
BOTH GARY GARRETT AND I HAVE HEARD BEFORE.
HE TOLD THAT HE DIDN'T RECOGNIZE THE GUYS.
ALL HE WOULD TELL US IS THAT, UM, THAT IN ESSENCE,
HE DISPOSED OF BOTH OF THEM.
HE DID TELL US HE GOT ON AND OFF THE INTERSTATE SEVERAL TIMES,
DRUG THEM INTO THE WOODS, AND LEFT THEM IN A DEPRESSION,
AND THREW BRUSH ON TOP OF THEM.
AND THAT'S, IN ESSENCE, HIS STORY TO US.
THE PROBLEM I HAVE WITH THIS WHOLE THING --
I THINK YOU'RE GONNA REMEMBER EVERY MINUTE DETAIL,
INCLUDING WHERE YOU PUT THE BODIES.
DID YOU ASK HIM IF HE WOULD COME AND SHOW YOU
WHERE THIS HAPPENED, WHERE HE DID THIS?
AND WHAT -- WHAT WAS HIS RESPONSE?
YES, AND AGAIN, HE REVERTED BACK TO THAT HE WOULD NOT ASSIST
IN LOCATING THE BODIES UNLESS HE WAS GIVEN IMMUNITY.
IMMUNITY FROM EITHER THE DEATH PENALTY
OR PROSECUTION, SHOULD THE BODIES BE FOUND,
IS NOT SOMETHING THE SPARTANBURG COUNTY SOLICITOR,
BARRY BARNETTE, IS WILLING TO GIVE TODD KOHLHEPP,
EVEN IF IT MEANS FINDING THE VICTIMS.
ANOTHER INTERESTING THING THAT HE SAID --
HE SAID, "I DON'T WANT THEM FOUND.
THEY DON'T DESERVE TO BE FOUND."
DOES HE NOT WANT THEM FOUND BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT THERE,
OR DOES HE NOT WANT THEM FOUND
BECAUSE, LIKE YOU SAID,
HE BLAMES HIS PLIGHT ON LIFE WITH THEM.
IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME
TO DECIPHER A SERIAL KILLER'S MOTIVES,
BUT I GO OVER EVERYTHING WE'VE DONE SO FAR WITH THE TEAM
AND SHOW THEM THE TWO LOCATIONS
TODD CHOSE AS POSSIBLE DUMP SITES FOR THE BODIES.
THE FIRST ONE WAS THIS EXIT 41 IN ENOREE.
THIS WAS INTERESTING BECAUSE IN TODD'S DESCRIPTION
OF WHERE HE PUT THEM, THERE'S A "ROAD ENDS" SIGN.
SO WE CAME UPON THIS "ROAD ENDS" SIGN,
AND IT IS PAVED FURTHER HERE.
THE NEXT PROPERTY THAT HE INDICATED, HE'S THOUGHT EXIT 54.
SO THIS WAS THE ONE AT THE CLINTON EXIT.
AND INITIALLY, I THOUGHT,
"WELL, THIS SEEMS A LITTLE MORE POPULATED.
THIS SEEMS A LITTLE MORE DEVELOPED OUT HERE."
THEN YOU FIND THIS "ROAD ENDS" SIGN,
WHICH IS COMPLETELY BURIED IN THE WOODS
AND LOOKS LIKE IT'S BEEN THERE FOR A LONG TIME.
THERE'S TREES GROWING THROUGH THE SIGN.
MAYBE THAT SIGN COULD'VE BEEN THERE AS FAR BACK AS 2003.
DIDN'T ONE OF YOU -- EITHER MARK OR YOU --
ASK HIM IF HE HAD WENT AS FAR AS CLINTON?
AND HE SAID THAT HE DIDN'T GO TO THE CLINTON EXIT.
CORRECT. HE SAID, "NO, I DIDN'T GO THAT FAR."
I THINK WE'VE GOT TO STICK WITH WHAT WE KNOW TO --
BASED ON WHAT HE'S TELLING US.
WE DON'T WANT TO GET TO LOOKING FOR THAT PROVERBIAL
NEEDLE IN A HAYSTACK.OKAY.
LET'S TAKE THIS -- JUST THE FLIP SIDE OF THIS.
SO, YES, HE TOLD YOU HE DIDN'T GO AS FAR AS CLINTON.
BUT WHEN HE WAS PROVIDED PHOTOS OF ALL SIX EXITS BETWEEN HERE
AND COLUMBIA THAT MATCH, HE SELECTED THAT EXIT.
SO YOU HAVE HIM TELLING YOU -- TELLING US, "LOOK HERE."
AND NOW YOU DON'T WANT TO LOOK THERE.
NO, I NEVER SAID WE DIDN'T WANT TO LOOK THERE.
I'M JUST SAYING, LOGISTICALLY SPEAKING,
IF YOU THINK THAT HE'S ON A TRAIL OF DECEPTION,
WHO'S TO SAYING THAT HE'S GIVING YOU THESE TO --
I DON'T THINK HE'S ON A TRAIL OF DECEPTION.
I -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE
AS TO WHETHER HE'S TELLING THE TRUTH.
DO I THINK HE'S INTENTIONALLY MISLEADING US TO EXITS
WHERE HE DIDN'T PUT THESE PEOPLE?
NO.
I GUESS IF YOU ASKED ME THAT QUESTION, I WOULD SAY NO.
BUT TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHICH LOCATIONS ARE WORTH
A FULL-ON SEARCH STIRS A LOT OF CONTROVERSY FOR THE GROUP.
STILL, THERE IS AGREEMENT THAT IF A ROAD THAT IS CLOSED TODAY
WAS ALSO CLOSED AND BARRICADED BACK IN 2003,
AS TODD AS DESCRIBED, IT'S WORTH A SECOND LOOK.
SURELY, WE CAN FIND OUT THESE "ROAD CLOSED" SIGNS --
GO BACK AND LOOK AND SEE HOW LONG HAS THAT ROAD BEEN CLOSED.
THE THING THAT GETS ME ON THIS EXIT 54 --
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT SIGN, THERE'S JUST --
BEEN THERE A WHILE.IT'S BEEN THERE A LONG TIME.
EXIT 28 IS PUT BACK ON THE TABLE, TOO.
EVEN THOUGH TODD DIDN'T CHOOSE IT,
INVESTIGATORS WANT TO SEE IT.
WE NEED TO PUT SOMEBODY ON -- ACTUALLY, ON ALL THREE OF THESE,
FINDING OUT WHEN THE ROADS WERE CLOSED.
HERE, LET ME GET THIS.
AND THEN LET'S -- LET'S RIDE DOWN
AND KIND OF LOOK, UM, TO SEE WHAT LOGISTICALLY
WE'LL NEED TO PERFORM THESE SEARCHES.
AND THEN, HOPEFULLY, WE CAN START SEARCHING TOMORROW.
AS A NEXT STEP, THE INVESTIGATORS DECIDE
TO VISIT THE SITES IN PERSON TO LOOK FOR OTHER CLUES
THAT COULD RULE AN EXIT IN OR OUT
BEFORE THEY BRING IN THE DOGS AND A LARGER SEARCH TEAM.
I CAN HARDLY BELIEVE THIS IS HAPPENING --
THAT WE MAY HAVE THE POTENTIAL
TO FIND THESE VICTIMS AND CLOSE NEW CASES.
AFTER STARTING AT THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENTS,
WE STOP AT EXIT 28 -- THE EXIT TODD DID NOT CHOOSE
AS THE PLACE HE TOOK THE TWO BODIES,
BUT THAT WE ALL THINK FITS THE CRITERIA.
OR AT LEAST MOST OF IT.
I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT'S BACK THERE.
THIS IS OBVIOUSLY THE FURTHEST WE EVER WENT,
WITH ALL THIS SIGNAGE.
LET'S JUST WALK BACK HERE FOR A MINUTE, BRANDON.
WHAT I LIKE ABOUT IT IS THE FACT
THAT IT'S OFF THE INTERSTATE AND YOU CAN SEE THE INTERSTATE,
WHICH IS THE WAY THAT HE DESCRIBED IT TO US.
ONE THING THAT I DON'T LIKE ABOUT IT --
IT DOESN'T REALLY FIT WHAT HE SAID --
BEING ABLE TO EXIT OFF THE INTERSTATE
A COUPLE OF TIMES BEFORE HE REACHED HIS DESTINATION.
THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT DISCOURAGES ME ABOUT THIS.
ALRIGHT, TAKE A LOOK AT THE NEXT ONE.
EXIT 41 IN ENOREE IS ANOTHER 12 MILES UP THE ROAD.
SO, THIS IS WHERE THE SIGN IS NOW.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S BEEN HERE 15 YEARS.
IS THIS THE ONLY "ROAD ENDS" SIGN ON HERE?
ON THIS ROAD?
YEAH. YES.
THERE'S NOT ANOTHER ONE DOWN THERE?
LET'S WALK DOWN HERE.
THERE ISN'T ANOTHER BARRICADE,
BUT I THINK YOU SHOULD SEE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE ROAD.
IT CURVES, AND SO THERE'S A LITTLE MORE SEPARATION
FROM 26.
Awes: EVERYONE'S IMPRESSED WITH THE SITE OFF EXIT 41.
IT CHECKS A LOT OF THE BOXES --
THE SIGN, THE RAVINE, AND A CLEAR END TO THE ROAD.
THE CONSENSUS IS THAT WE SHOULD FIND OUT
IF THIS ROAD WAS CLOSED BACK IN 2003.
IF IT WAS, THIS SITE IS DEFINITELY A CONTENDER.
AFTER EXIT 41, IT'S ON TO THE LAST SITE --
EXIT 54 IN CLINTON,
THE SITE WHERE THE "ROAD ENDS" SIGN IS BURIED IN THE WOODS.
THIS IS THE ONE HE PICKED, YEAH.
AND YOU'LL SEE THIS SIGN BACK HERE,
AND WE CAN WALK BACK IN HERE.
WOW.
YOU CAN SEE THAT ENTIRE TREE HAS GONE AROUND ONE SIDE,
THROUGH THE BACK, AND ALL THE WAY UP.
THE TREE GROWING THROUGH IT IS ONE THING.
BUT EVEN, LIKE, THIS FATTER TREE IS RIGHT NEXT TO IT.
LIKE, YOU WOULDN'T BE PUTTING A "ROAD CLOSED" SIGN IN BETWEEN
TWO TREES THAT ARE ALREADY THERE.
-OH, YEAH. NO DOUBT. -YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
LIKE, SOMETHING'S GOING ON WITH THIS SITE.
THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE SPENDS MOST OF THE DAY
DIGESTING WHAT THEY'VE SEEN.
IN THE AFTERNOON, I GET A CALL FROM CAPTAIN COOPER.
Cooper: WE CAN'T CORROBORATE ANYTHING AT EXIT 28
THAT LEADS US TO BELIEVE
THAT THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO SEARCH.
EXIT 28's OUT.
EXIT 54 IN CLINTON IS RULED OUT, TOO,
DESPITE THE FACT THAT TODD HIMSELF IDENTIFIED
THAT LOCATION.
INVESTIGATORS LEARNED THERE USED TO BE A DIRT ROAD
THERE LEADING UP TO THE "ROAD ENDS" SIGN.
BUT BECAUSE TODD NEVER MENTIONED DRIVING ON A DIRT ROAD,
THEY RULED IT OUT.
THERE'S ONE THAT WE'RE GONNA PUT
BOOTS ON THE GROUND AT. IT'S GONNA BE EXIT 41.
WHEN IT COMES TO INVESTIGATING HIS NEW CLAIM,
ONE THING TODD TELLS AUTHORITIES IS HE DOESN'T WANT THE MEDIA,
OUTSIDE OF MY CREW, INVOLVED.
BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT HAPPENS.
"GREENVILLE NEWS" REPORTER DANIEL GROSS GETS A TIP
FROM A SOURCE HE REFUSES TO IDENTIFY
AND BREAKS THE STORY, WHICH IS PICKED UP QUICKLY
BY LOCAL AND NATIONAL MEDIA.
INFAMOUS SERIAL KILLER TODD KOHLHEPP,
KNOWN FOR MURDERING SEVEN PEOPLE IN THE UPSTATE,
TOLD A TV DOCUMENTARY CREW
HE HAD HIDDEN THE BODIES OF MORE VICTIMS IN ENOREE.
Awes: THE LEAK IS DEFINITELY A PROBLEM.
IT'S NOT THE WAY WE WANTED THINGS TO GO.
JOHN DOUGLAS AGREES TO GO ON THE UPCOMING SEARCH.
AND ONCE HE ARRIVES IN TOWN,
WE'RE CALLED INTO THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE
UNDER CLOAK-AND-DAGGER TO TALK.
ALL OF A SUDDEN, ONE OF THE REPORTERS,
DANIEL GROSS, PUBLISHES AN ARTICLE IN
"THE GREENVILLE NEWS" THAT SHERIFF WRIGHT IS QUOTED IN,
THAT SAYS TODD KOHLHEPP HAS CONFESSED TO
KILLING TWO ADDITIONAL VICTIMS.
WHICH JUST BLEW MY MIND.
I MEAN, NOW EVERYBODY KNOWS.
SO WHAT DO YOU THINK THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT'S
ATTITUDE'S GONNA BE WHEN WE GO SEE THEM?
THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE HAPPY.
THEY SAID I COULD BRING YOU, BUT WE HAVE TO GO IN
NO-RECORDING, NO-CAMERAS, NO-AUDIO.
I CAN'T HAVE MY PHONE.
PART OF ME IS WORRIED THEY'LL SAY,
"WELL, NOW BECAUSE OF THIS MEDIA FRENZY, WE'RE EITHER --"
YOU KNOW, "WE'RE NOT GONNA DO THIS SEARCH
WHILE YOU'RE HERE OR YOU CAN'T BE PART OF THAT."
JOHN DOUGLAS BELIEVES TODD'S CLAIMS
NEED TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY,
IN PART BECAUSE OF A QUESTIONNAIRE THAT
HE GAVE TODD TO FILL OUT JUST A FEW MONTHS AGO.
IT'S A PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSESSMENT
THAT DOUGLAS GIVES TO ALL OF THE SERIAL KILLERS
HE COMMUNICATES WITH TO EVALUATE HOW THEY THINK.
HE PUT MORE IN ON THAT FORM THAN ANY OTHER OFFENDER
WHO I'VE EVER INTERVIEWED, AND IT'S HIM TALKING HONESTLY.
AND I JUST BELIEVE HIM.
HE'S -- HE'S KILLED.
HE'S KILLED BEFORE.
JOHN DOUGLAS SAYS THAT TODD'S ANSWERS
THROUGHOUT THE 69-PAGE QUESTIONNAIRE
ARE MORE CANDID THAN THOSE OF SERIAL KILLERS
LIKE TED BUNDY AND CHARLES MANSON.
TODD GOES INTO DETAIL ABOUT HIS ABUSIVE CHILDHOOD,
HIS FANTASIES, AND HIS MURDERS.
AND SOMETHING MORE TELLING --
HE INCLUDES THE VICTIMS OF THE HUNT CLUB MURDERS
HE'S NOW ALLEGING IN HIS TALLY OF KILLS,
WHICH JOHN DOUGLAS THINKS ADDS TO HIS CREDIBILITY.
ONCE WE GET TO THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE, WE DO AS INSTRUCTED,
ENTERING THROUGH THE BACK DOOR
AS OTHER MEDIA IS ASSEMBLED OUT FRONT.
ALRIGHT, WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE.
WE CAN'T -- WE CAN'T BRING A CAMERA,
EVEN IF WE DON'T HAVE IT ON, IN CASE WE CHANGE OUR MI-- OKAY.
♪♪
Awes: ONE HOUR AFTER WE ENTER THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE,
WE'RE BACK OUT.
THEY'VE GOTTEN ABOUT 25 CALLS FROM DIFFERENT MEDIA OUTLETS
WANTING TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON, WHAT DID TODD CONFESS TO.
THEY ARE GOING TO STILL CONDUCT THE SEARCH TOMORROW.
WE'RE STILL ABLE TO GO ALONG WITH THAT.
THE OTHER MEDIA IS NOT.
BECAUSE NOW THE MEDIA IS ALL OVER THIS --
THIS CASE, THEY ARE -- THEY'RE PAINTED IN A CORNER.
I TOLD THEM, I SAID, I DO BELIEVE, IN FACT,
THAT KOHLHEPP IS RESPONSIBLE FOR OTHER MURDERS.
AND I DO BELIEVE THE STORIES THAT HE HAS TOLD.
AFTER THE SHERIFF IS BRIEFED ON THE SEARCH PLAN,
HE AGREES TO MEET WITH ME ONE MORE TIME.
I THINK HE JUST WANTS TO GO OVER EVERYTHING THAT'S HAPPENED.
AND PERHAPS NOW HE BELIEVES WE WANT THE SAME THINGS.
WE NEEDED A PLACE THAT BRINGS THE WHOLE INVESTIGATION
FULL CIRCLE.
THE SHIPPING CONTAINER.
IT'S WHERE KALA BROWN WAS CHAINED BEFORE HER RESCUE
SHED LIGHT ON TODD'S MURDEROUS PAST FOR ALL THE WORLD TO SEE.
IT'S PRETTY SOMBER, ACTUALLY.
WOW.
IT'S VERY EERIE TO BE HERE.
THE SHIPPING CONTAINER IS MUCH LARGER THAN
I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE FROM THE STORIES ABOUT KALA'S RELEASE.
IN FACT, THE TRACTOR TODD USED TO BURY JOHNNY AND MEAGAN COXIE
AND CHARLIE CARVER ON HIS PROPERTY IS INSIDE.
YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT THIS FARM EQUIPMENT.
YOU KNOW, IT'S REALLY NOT ANYTHING OUT OF THE ORDINARY.
BUT WHEN IT'S USED FOR WHAT HE'S USING IT FOR,
IT CERTAINLY IS.
THERE'S A MAKESHIFT SHEET PUT UP, OR WHATEVER IT IS.
BACK THERE'S WHERE HE WAS HOLDING MS. KALA.
THE SHERIFF REMEMBERS HOW THE NOW-INFAMOUS RESCUE CAME ABOUT.
IT WAS THERE SEPARATING THE --
EVERYTHING IS THE SAME AS IT WAS THERE, EXCEPT FOR THE CAGE.
I THINK WE TOOK THE CAGE OUT.
SHE WAS CHAINED TO THE WALL.
I'M REALLY PROUD OF THE TEAM FOR,
THEY WENT OUT THERE TO SEARCH.
YOU KNOW, THEY HEARD --
[ KNOCKING ON WALL ]
AND THERE WERE TREES AROUND WITH PINE CONES FALLING.
ONE OF THE OFFICERS SAID, "I HEAR SOMETHING."
AND SHE WAS TAKING A CHANCE THAT IT WASN'T HIM.
RIGHT.AND THEN SHE STARTED SCREAMING,
AND THAT'S WHEN IT STARTED ROLLING.
IT'S HARD BELIEVE.
I MEAN, SEEING THIS AND SEEING THE TRACTOR,
IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE READING THROUGH
THE CASE FILE AND EVEN DOING INTERVIEWS --
PUTTING EYES ON IT MAKES IT DIFFERENT, DON'T IT?
IT MAKES -- IT'S JUST A HUGE DIFFERENCE.
I MEAN, JUST TO PICTURE HIM ON THERE PUTTING BODIES
IN A TARP, AND I MEAN --
YOU CAN'T MAKE NO RHYME OR REASON OUT OF THIS STUFF.
WILL YOU ALWAYS WONDER IF THERE'S MORE VICTIMS,
EVEN NOT KNOWING WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE SEARCH TOMORROW?
I'LL JUST KEEP THE OPTIONS OPEN, LIKE I ALWAYS HAVE.
AND WE'LL SEE YOU OUT THERE TOMORROW?
YOU WILL.
YEP.
THANK YOU, MS. MARIA.THANK YOU.
♪♪
Reporter: A NEW REVELATION FROM SERIAL KILLER TODD KOHLHEPP.
WE HAVE LEARNED MORE VICTIMS COULD BE IN THE UPSTATE.
Awes: WHEN THE MORNING OF THE SEARCH ARRIVES,
I'M STILL NOT SURE IF I THINK TODD IS TELLING THE TRUTH.
GOT THE NEWSPAPER THIS MORNING.
THIS IS THE SPARTANBURG HERALD-JOURNAL --
BIG ARTICLE, "MORE BODIES POSSIBLE."
SHERIFF SAYS, "TODD KOHLHEPP SAYS HE BURIED
TWO MORE VICTIMS NEAR THE 1-26."
I THINK THERE'S A HIGH LEVEL OF SKEPTICISM
GOING INTO THIS THAT WE'RE GONNA FIND ANYTHING TODAY.
BUT I ALSO THINK, HOW DO YOU NOT TAKE THAT SERIOUSLY
WHEN YOU HAVE A SERIAL KILLER WHO'S KILLED SEVEN PEOPLE,
TELLING YOU THERE'S TWO MORE?
THE FIRST THING WE SEE WHEN WE ARRIVE
AT THE SCENE IS THE SHERIFF,
WHO'S HOLDING A PRESS CONFERENCE FOR OTHER MEDIA
CLAMORING FOR DETAILS ABOUT WHAT LED TO TODAY'S SEARCH.
Reporter #2: THIS TIP IS NOT COMING DIRECTLY FROM HIM.
YOU GUYS GOT A TIP, AND THEN WENT TO HIM WITH IT?
WE DID GO TO HIM WITH IT. HE DIDN'T WANT TO TALK TO US,
BUT HE'S TALKING TO SOMEONE ELSE.
Awes: FOR THE MOST PART, I THINK TODD DOES TELL THE TRUTH --
OR AT LEAST, HIS VERSION OF IT.
I THINK HE WAS THE SOLE SHOOTER AT SUPERBIKE MOTORSPORTS,
AND THAT THE REASON SOME OF THE EVIDENCE
DOESN'T MATCH HIS CONFESSION EXACTLY IS BECAUSE HE WASN'T
AS ORGANIZED OF A KILLER AS HE'S LED US ALL TO BELIEVE.
OR MAYBE HE DOESN'T REMEMBER THE DETAILS
AS CLEARLY AS HE SAYS HE DOES, NOW 15 YEARS LATER.
WHEN HE SAYS HE DIDN'T RAPE KALA, I THINK IN HIS MIND
THAT'S TRUE BECAUSE SHE APPEARED TO HIM TO BE WILLING.
HE'S UNABLE TO CONSIDER SHE MIGHT JUST HAVE BEEN DOING
WHAT SHE HAD TO DO TO SURVIVE.
BUT DID HE REALLY DO THIS --
A BLOODY DOUBLE-HOMICIDE IN AN OPEN-AIR PARKING LOT,
FOLLOWED BY A HURRIED BURIAL AT A LOCATION
HE CAN'T QUITE RECALL?
I'M NOT SO SURE.
BUT AT EXIT 41 IN ENOREE, WE NOW HAVE A CHANCE
TO SNIFF OUT THE TRUTH -- LITERALLY.
TELL ME ABOUT YOUR TEAM THAT'S OUT HERE TODAY.
WE'RE A K-9 UNIT, SOUTH CAROLINA FOOTHILLS SEARCH & RESCUE.
THE DOGS ARE ACTUALLY TRAINED ON BONE --
THE ODOR OF THE BONE.
THEY'RE TRAINED ON FLESH, BLOOD,
TISSUES AT ALL DIFFERENT LEVELS OF DECOMPOSITION.
AS THEY'RE GOING THROUGH THE WOODS,
YOU'RE INITIALLY GONNA SEE A CHANGE IN BEHAVIOR.
IT COULD BE A NECK JERK OR SOMETHING.
THAT'S A FIRST SIGNAL THAT, "OH, MY DOG IS SMELLING
SOMETHING THAT'S OUT OF THE ORDINARY."
IN THIS CASE, IT'S 15 YEARS OLD.
YEAH.IS THAT A PROBLEM?
IT DOESN'T MATTER TO THE DOG.
THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE BELIEVES THIS SITE,
EXIT 41 IN ENOREE, IS THE MOST-LIKELY LOCATION.
THEY DECIDE TO PLACE CADAVER DOGS NEAR THE INITIAL
"ROAD ENDS" BARRIER, AND ALSO IN THE AREA
WHERE THE ROAD ACTUALLY ENDS.
THEY'LL USE A THIRD DOG TEAM AS NEEDED.
SEARCHING SOUTH CAROLINA IN THE MIDDLE OF AUGUST
IN THE WOODS IS NO JOKE.
I FEEL LIKE I'M IN, UH, THE JUNGLE.
YEAH.
WE'RE LOOKING FOR A DEPRESSION
WHERE THE BODIES COULD'VE BEEN PLACED.
WITH JAMIE WANNEMACHER, ONE OF THE DOG TEAM HANDLERS,
WE'RE ALSO LOOKING FOR WALLETS, REMNANTS OF CLOTHING,
AND MOSTLY FOR HER DOG, NOLAN, AND THE OTHER DOGS TO ALERT --
WHICH IS INDICATED BY CHANGES IN THEIR BEHAVIOR.
SO, THIS'LL BE THE AREA WHERE WE KIND OF NEED TO --
-SPREAD? -'CAUSE THIS IS A LITTLE EASIER
TO WALK IN.
SO LIKE I SAID, WE'LL KIND OF GO UP THIS WAY,
AND EVERYBODY ELSE JUST FAN OUT.
THEY'RE JUST GONNA COME BACK UP THIS WAY.
WE'RE GONNA GO ACROSS THE CREEK AND WORK LEFT.
WHAT DO YOU THINK THE CHANCES ARE
OF REALLY FINDING SOMETHING IN TERRAIN LIKE THIS
THAT IS AS OLD AS 2003?
I MEAN, IF IT'S THERE, WE SHOULD FIND IT.
OKAY. GOOD.
Awes: THERE'S A LOT OF TRASH THAT'S BEEN LEFT RECENTLY
ALONG THE ROADSIDE NEARBY, PROBABLY FROM PARTIERS.
BUT THERE'S NOTHING LIKE THAT FURTHER INTO THE WOODS.
THAT'S WHY SOMETHING STANDS OUT
TO ONE OF JAMIE'S TEAM MEMBERS UP AHEAD.
WHAT'S HAPPENING?
SHE SAID SHE SEES A PIECE OF A T-SHIRT
OR SOMETHING KIND OF COMING OUT OF THE GROUND.
OH.
SAID THAT'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, SO WE'LL GO CHECK IT.
NOLAN?
THERE'S A T-SHIRT STICKING OUT OF THE GROUND.
-WHERE? -RIGHT THERE.
BUT HE THREW HIS HEAD UP A COUPLE TIMES IN THAT AREA,
SO MAYBE JUST PULL IT OUT OF THE GROUND AND SEE.
♪♪
IT DOESN'T TAKE LONG TO DETERMINE THAT THE T-SHIRT
SHOWS NO EVIDENCE OF BEING ASSOCIATED WITH A DEAD BODY.
WE MOVE ON.
HOW MUCH GROUND DO YOU THINK THAT WE'VE COVERED SO FAR?
UM, PROBABLY A LITTLE OVER A QUARTER-OF-A-MILE.
OKAY.
I'M GONNA GO DOWN THIS WAY JUST A LITTLE BIT,
AND THEN WE'LL CUT BACK LEFT.
I'M WONDERING HOW THE OTHER TEAMS ARE DOING.
THERE ARE DOZENS OF PEOPLE AND A HANDFUL OF DOGS
SEARCHING THE AREA AROUND EXIT 41.
HOW'S IT GOING DOWN AT THE OTHER PART?
HAVE THEY SAID ANYTHING?
WE'RE GONNA WORK THAT WAY.
SO IN THEORY, WE SHOULD RUN INTO THEM.
A COUPLE HOURS IN, WE DO MEET UP WITH THE OTHER SEARCH TEAM
HEADING OUR DIRECTION FROM THE AREA
OF THE "ROAD CLOSED" SIGN,
AND WE FIGURE OUT WHAT'S LEFT TO SEARCH.
GO DOWN ABOUT ANOTHER 50 YARDS.
JUST WALK STRAIGHT. GO ABOUT ANOTHER 50 YARDS.
AND I'LL GO ACROSS THE CREEK AND HEAD LEFT.
AND THEN THAT WAY, Y'ALL CAN FINISH GOING THAT WAY.
THREE HOURS INTO THE SEARCH, OUR TEAM HAS NO LUCK
FINDING ANYTHING THAT MIGHT SUGGEST THERE ARE
OR EVER WERE VICTIMS BURIED OUT HERE.
BUT WHEN WE GET BACK TO THE TEAM LEADER,
I FIND OUT ANOTHER TEAM DID FIND SOMETHING SIGNIFICANT.
WE'VE HAD THREE DOG TEAMS OUT IN SEPARATE AREAS.
WE HAVE LOCATED FOUR BONES SO FAR.
EVERYTHING IS CRIMINAL UNTIL WE DETERMINE IT'S NOT.
♪♪
Awes: THERE'S A SOMBER DISCOVERY.
I'M EAGER TO FIND OUT ABOUT THE BONES FOUND AT ONE OF THE SITES.
COULD THEY BELONG TO ONE OF TODD KOHLHEPP'S VICTIMS?
WERE THE BONES FOUND IN ONE OF THE AREAS
WHERE THE DOGS WERE --YEAH, THEY WERE CLOSE TO IT.
AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE LOCATED FOUR BONES,
THREE OF WHICH WE'VE POSITIVELY IDENTIFIED AS ANIMAL.
THAT'S ONE MORE TASK THAT WE'LL DO THIS AFTERNOON,
IS WE'LL CHECK THAT FOURTH BONE TO DETERMINE WHAT IT IS.
AS WE WAIT FOR THE RESULTS, JOHN DOUGLAS AND I TALK.
WE AGREE THAT NO MATTER WHAT IS FOUND, THAT WE BELIEVE
TODD'S CLAIMS.
SEARCHING BLIND LIKE WE'VE BEEN DOING
IS NO SUBSTITUTION FOR HAVING HIM OUT HERE
IN PERSON TO POTENTIALLY IDENTIFY A BURIAL SITE.
I DON'T THINK HE'S THE TYPE WHO WANTS TO LIE.
HE NEEDS TODD KOHLHEPP TO COME OUT HERE, HANDCUFFED,
AND POINT DIRECTLY TO THE AREA --
WHETHER THIS WAS THE SPOT OR SOME OTHER SPOT
ALONG THIS INTERSTATE.
I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. HE KILLED THESE PEOPLE.
HE IS THE ONLY ONE WHO IS GOING TO BE ABLE
TO TAKE INVESTIGATORS THERE.
AND THAT'S GONNA BE UP TO THE SOLICITOR,
IF WHAT HE REALLY WANTS IS A DEAL.
SOME POINT MAYBE DOWN THE LINE HERE,
THEY WILL OFFER HIM SOMETHING.
YOU KNOW, THEY WON'T GIVE HIM THE DEATH PENALTY.
AND, UH, HE'LL FESS UP.
IF THERE ARE OTHER VICTIMS THAT REALLY ARE OUT THERE,
YOU WANT TO FIND THOSE PEOPLE.
I WANT TO FIND THOSE PEOPLE.
AS WE'RE TALKING, CAPTAIN COOPER COMES OVER
WITH THE NEWS WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR,
ABOUT WHETHER THE LAST BONE FOUND IS ANIMAL OR HUMAN.
Cooper: WE THOUGHT WE HAD A POSSIBILITY DOWN THERE.
THEY'VE BEEN ON THE PHONE WITH THE FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST
FOR THE LAST LITTLE BIT,
AND HE HAS CONFIRMED IT'S AN ANIMAL BONE.
HE SAID PROBABLY 20 MINUTES, AND THEY'LL BE WRAPPED UP.
OKAY. AND THEN THAT WOULD BE THE EXTENT OF IT, THEN.
YEAH, THAT'S IT.
YEAH. YEP.
WE HAD TO RUN OUT WHAT WE HAD.
AND UNLESS WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S A LOT MORE CREDIBLE
THAN WHAT WE CAME DOWN HERE ON TODAY,
UM, OUR JOB DOWN HERE IS KIND OF DONE.
DOES IT FEEL LIKE ONE BIG TEASE?
I'M NOT GONNA SAY THAT.
UM, HERE'S THE THING.
IS THERE VICTIMS OUT HERE? ONLY HE KNOWS.
I DECIDE TO TALK TO GARY GARRETT, TODD'S BIOGRAPHER,
FOR HIS TAKE ON THE DAY'S EVENTS.
HAVE YOU BEEN WATCHING THE SEARCH COVERAGE?
Garrett: I HAVE, YEAH. YEAH.
YOU KNOW WE DIDN'T FIND ANYTHING.
IT WAS DISAPPOINTING, TO SAY THE LEAST.
IT TOOK ABOUT -- I WOULD SAY FOUR,
FOUR-PLUS HOURS TO FINISH SEARCHING THE WHOLE AREA.
I THINK WE'RE AT THE END OF THE LINE,
UNLESS TODD DECIDES HE'S GONNA COME CLEAN.
MM-HMM.
DO YOU THINK HE'S EVER GOING TO?
I DON'T KNOW. YOU KNOW, WHEN I TALKED TO HIM,
IT SEEMED HE DIDN'T KNOW FOR CERTAIN.
HE SAID, "I THINK I MIGHT, COULD TAKE YOU TO IT."
BUT TALKING ABOUT IT AND TELLING THE EXACT LOCATION WAS --
SEEMED A LITTLE MORE DIFFICULT.
DO YOU BELIEVE TODD'S STORY ABOUT THE HUNT CLUB VICTIMS?
I REALLY DO.
UM, HIS -- EVER SINCE HE FIRST TOLD ME ABOUT IT,
HE'S BEEN VERY CONSISTENT.
I THINK TODD PROBABLY DID KILL OTHER PEOPLE.
EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE INCONSISTENCIES
IN TODD'S MEMORY OF THE SUPERBIKE MURDERS,
JOHN DOUGLAS AND I BOTH THINK HE REMEMBERS
MORE THAN HE'S LETTING ON IN THIS CASE.
IF THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENT VICTIMS
ARE TODD'S FIRST TWO HOMICIDES,
HE WOULD REMEMBER WHERE HE PUT THE BODIES.
AND IF THE STORY IS TRUE,
HE SPENT MORE TIME WITH THESE VICTIMS --
CLEANING UP THE SCENE, TRANSPORTING THEM IN HIS CAR,
AND BURYING THEM -- HOPING THEY'D NEVER BE FOUND.
DO I THINK TODD KOHLHEPP DOESN'T KNOW EXACTLY
WHERE HE PUT THOSE TWO PEOPLE?
NO WAY.
THE FIRST TWO PEOPLE THAT HE KILLED --
THE TWO PEOPLE THAT HE BLAMES FOR HIS SORT OF
ENTIRE DOWNWARD SPIRAL -- HOW DOES HE NOT KNOW?
I DON'T BUY IT.
FOR ME, THIS IS A FRUSTRATING END TO OVER A YEAR,
YOU KNOW, SPENT TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, WHAT ELSE DID
TODD KOHLHEPP DO?
IT JUST FEELS SO UNSETTLED,
AND IT'S DIFFICULT TO THINK THERE MAY NEVER BE CLOSURE.
YEAH.
THAT'S -- I JUST SO WISH IT COULD BE DIFFERENT.
I DO, TOO.
♪♪
NOW BACK HOME IN MINNEAPOLIS,
I'VE HAD SOME TIME TO THINK OVER EVERYTHING THAT'S HAPPENED.
I'M LEFT WITH THE STRANGE FEELING THAT TODD STILL HAS
THE POWER TO CHANGE THIS STORY,
THAT THERE STILL MAY BE OTHER VICTIMS TO FIND OUT THERE.
BUT WE'LL FIND THEM IF HE'S IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT.
WHEN TODD MENTIONS WANTING A DEAL SIGNED BY
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, I CAN'T HELP BUT WONDER IF HE'S
GIVING ME A CLUE TO THE TRUE
WHEREABOUTS OF THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENT VICTIMS.
NOW, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
VERSUS THE SOLICITOR.
IS THERE A REASON YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
VERSUS THE SOLICITOR IN THIS CASE?
OKAY.
THAT IS TRUE AND VERY INTERESTING.
DOES HE WANT THE STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO SIGN A DEAL
INSTEAD OF THE SPARTANBURG COUNTY SOLICITOR
BECAUSE THE BODIES AREN'T IN SPARTANBURG COUNTY AFTER ALL?
I FEEL COMPELLED TO ASK TODD MORE ABOUT THAT POSSIBILITY.
DO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE EVEN FURTHER
THAN SPARTANBURG COUNTY?
DO YOU THINK YOU DROVE FURTHER?
AS TODD DESCRIBES THIS LOCATION,
ALL I CAN THINK OF IS EXIT 54 IN CLINTON.
IT'S THE EXIT THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE CHOSE NOT TO SEARCH.
BUT I'M NOT NAIVE.
THERE ARE STILL PROBLEMS WITH TODD'S STORY.
THEY CAN'T FIND ANY MISSING PEOPLE IN THAT TIMEFRAME.
THERE WEREN'T ANY REPORTS OF A DISTURBANCE
AT THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENTS.
SO WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?
DID YOU PUT THE WALLETS IN WITH THEM, OR JUST NEVER --?
OKAY. OKAY.
SO IF THEY WERE TO BE FOUND TODAY,
THEIR WALLETS WOULD STILL BE THERE.
♪♪
10 MONTHS AFTER THE SEARCH WITH THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE,
I GET A NEW LETTER FROM TODD POSTMARKED MARCH 26, 2019.
IT SEEMS TO CONFIRM SOME OF MY EARLIER SUSPICIONS
ABOUT WHY HE WANTED THE SOUTH CAROLINA ATTORNEY GENERAL
TO GIVE HIM IMMUNITY INSTEAD OF
THE SPARTANBURG COUNTY SOLICITOR.
HE SAYS, "I DON'T TRUST THE ATTORNEY IN SPARTANBURG,
AND NOT EVERYTHING I DID
ON A VARIETY OF LEVELS WAS IN SPARTANBURG.
A LOT OF THINGS I DON'T WANT TO ADMIT TO,
BUT LIKE A LOOSE STRING ON A SWEATER,
ONCE THEY START PULLING, YOU NEVER KNOW HOW FAR IT UNRAVELS.
I WAS LOOKING AHEAD TO WHAT ELSE THEY EVENTUALLY FIND."
I THINK TODD KOHLHEPP KILLED MORE PEOPLE.
AND I HOPE THAT SOME DAY, SOMEHOW, THEY'LL BE FOUND.
FOR THE FAMILIES OF HIS KNOWN VICTIMS,
IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THE STORIES OF THEIR LOST LOVED ONES
ARE NOT FORGOTTEN -- THAT THEY LIVE ON.
IT'S LIKE YOU TURN A PAGE AND START ANOTHER CHAPTER.
THE EVENTS OF WHAT HAD WENT ON,
JUST RELIVING MOMENTS -- IT'S STILL HARD TO BELIEVE.
Awes: EVEN THOUGH WE HAVEN'T FOUND MORE VICTIMS,
I'M STILL STRUCK BY HOW BRUTALLY HONEST
TODD HAS BEEN WITH ME ABOUT HIMSELF,
ABOUT HIS MOTIVES, AND ABOUT HIS REGRETS.
AND HE HAS THEM.
I THINK TODD KOHLHEPP IS A SERIAL KILLER
WHO SHOULD BE BELIEVED MORE OFTEN THAN NOT.
HE'S A MURDERER WHO TOLD HIS MOTHER
HE KILLED MANY MORE PEOPLE.
IS THERE MORE TO DISCOVER?
ONLY TODD KNOWS THE TRUTH.
LET'S HOPE HE DECIDES TO SHARE IT.
AT LEAST, HE WANTS TO KEEP TALKING.
Kohlhepp: I MAY HAVE A FEW MORE MINUTES.
I HAVE TO FIND SOMETHING TO DO TO OCCUPY MY TIME.
♪♪