1 00:00:05,506 --> 00:00:06,774 [Jason] When I was young, 2 00:00:06,874 --> 00:00:07,841 I had a lot of bad behavior, you know. 3 00:00:08,008 --> 00:00:10,444 ADD, ADHD, the whole nine. 4 00:00:10,544 --> 00:00:12,580 I went to this therapist, that therapist. 5 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:14,382 It sucked, dude. No offense. 6 00:00:14,548 --> 00:00:15,716 [Orna] No, no, I get it. 7 00:00:15,849 --> 00:00:17,351 You know, I've been on the Mellaril, 8 00:00:17,485 --> 00:00:18,886 the Vistaril, the Ritalin. 9 00:00:19,019 --> 00:00:21,489 I was on all of it, you know? - Yeah. 10 00:00:21,622 --> 00:00:23,857 My mom found a world-renowned guy, 11 00:00:23,991 --> 00:00:25,259 made a board game. 12 00:00:25,359 --> 00:00:27,061 Dr. [bleep] was his name. 13 00:00:27,195 --> 00:00:28,562 I still remember it. 14 00:00:28,696 --> 00:00:31,065 - I know the name. - [Jason] I still remember it. 15 00:00:31,199 --> 00:00:32,700 And I got that guy so pissed, 16 00:00:32,866 --> 00:00:35,035 he grabbed me by my shirt and dragged me out. 17 00:00:35,203 --> 00:00:37,105 My mother was standing in the hallway. 18 00:00:37,205 --> 00:00:39,240 And this guy was world-renowned. 19 00:00:39,407 --> 00:00:40,408 I know. I won. 20 00:00:40,541 --> 00:00:43,077 I won that one. I won that interaction. 21 00:00:43,244 --> 00:00:44,978 ♪ funky music playing ♪ 22 00:00:50,484 --> 00:00:52,620 ♪ percussive music playing ♪ 23 00:00:58,726 --> 00:01:01,629 [Orna] In couples therapy, nothing is what it seems. 24 00:01:02,263 --> 00:01:03,564 There are all these ways 25 00:01:03,731 --> 00:01:05,699 that we can project onto other people 26 00:01:05,833 --> 00:01:08,936 that are just based on nothing but our own fantasies. 27 00:01:09,337 --> 00:01:11,605 As you get to know them further, 28 00:01:11,739 --> 00:01:14,642 the picture changes so much. 29 00:01:16,076 --> 00:01:17,911 [excited chatter] 30 00:01:19,347 --> 00:01:20,914 It's not unusual 31 00:01:21,048 --> 00:01:24,084 when a couple's treatment is progressing really well 32 00:01:24,252 --> 00:01:26,053 for couples to surprise me 33 00:01:26,187 --> 00:01:29,957 with suddenly toying with the idea of maybe breaking up. 34 00:01:31,625 --> 00:01:35,763 Suddenly, there's a feeling of, do we really still want this? 35 00:01:36,497 --> 00:01:38,132 I think it's important for me 36 00:01:38,299 --> 00:01:41,435 not to rush in and try to influence. 37 00:01:42,102 --> 00:01:46,340 They need to experience that as their own choice. 38 00:01:49,643 --> 00:01:51,179 [birds tweeting] 39 00:01:57,084 --> 00:01:58,752 [Chris] I was just, like, spinning 40 00:01:58,886 --> 00:02:00,288 and spinning and spinning. 41 00:02:00,421 --> 00:02:02,756 And I woke up really early, 42 00:02:02,890 --> 00:02:05,859 and I was just staring at the back of her head. 43 00:02:05,959 --> 00:02:09,463 I was like, "What if there are still vestiges of like, 44 00:02:09,630 --> 00:02:12,233 no, maybe I don't want to be with you?" 45 00:02:12,366 --> 00:02:14,935 And-- And then I thought, "I'll just ask." 46 00:02:15,068 --> 00:02:16,670 And I know she'll tell me. 47 00:02:16,804 --> 00:02:18,772 And so I asked her and she said, 48 00:02:18,906 --> 00:02:22,310 "No, I don't have any need to do that." 49 00:02:22,476 --> 00:02:23,544 Need to abandon you. 50 00:02:23,644 --> 00:02:24,578 [Chris] To like leave, or-- 51 00:02:24,712 --> 00:02:25,546 Yeah. - [Sienna] Yeah. 52 00:02:26,447 --> 00:02:29,417 I think I've just been really afraid of those 53 00:02:29,550 --> 00:02:32,953 feelings that are so big that seem dark. 54 00:02:33,954 --> 00:02:35,523 Meaning like rage? 55 00:02:35,656 --> 00:02:37,658 - [Sienna] Like anger and rage. - Yeah. 56 00:02:37,791 --> 00:02:41,161 And demanding anything from anyone. 57 00:02:41,329 --> 00:02:43,931 And, like, this week too, I had moments where I was like, 58 00:02:44,064 --> 00:02:45,132 "I'm so mad at you. 59 00:02:45,266 --> 00:02:46,734 I'm fucking mad at you." 60 00:02:46,834 --> 00:02:48,669 And he's like, "I know." And I'm like, "I know." 61 00:02:48,802 --> 00:02:51,639 Before, I would just be, like, fucking terrified. 62 00:02:51,772 --> 00:02:53,040 Like, just let it pass. 63 00:02:53,173 --> 00:02:55,443 And I don't care if, like, she feels it, 64 00:02:55,576 --> 00:02:56,777 but she holds it in. 65 00:02:56,910 --> 00:02:59,012 Like, I just don't want it directed at me. 66 00:02:59,179 --> 00:03:01,349 And now I'm like, okay, let's work with it. 67 00:03:01,482 --> 00:03:02,683 How does she feel? 68 00:03:02,816 --> 00:03:04,518 It's almost like honestly 69 00:03:04,685 --> 00:03:08,155 a physical softness that has... 70 00:03:08,289 --> 00:03:09,790 That lives within you now. 71 00:03:09,923 --> 00:03:11,992 - Before, like... - Yeah. 72 00:03:12,125 --> 00:03:14,628 The shark eyes, the tense body, the redness. 73 00:03:14,762 --> 00:03:15,696 - Fucking sphincter... - Yeah. 74 00:03:15,829 --> 00:03:17,197 ...like I'd just be like, "Ooh!" 75 00:03:17,331 --> 00:03:19,032 Oh, my gosh. The sphincter. 76 00:03:19,166 --> 00:03:20,634 His butt used to be so tight. 77 00:03:20,768 --> 00:03:23,937 Not the sphincter, just the-- The cheeks. 78 00:03:24,037 --> 00:03:26,240 He would stand, and it was always clenched. 79 00:03:26,374 --> 00:03:27,475 And now I'm like, "Oh!" 80 00:03:27,608 --> 00:03:28,842 Like, I'll pat his tush. 81 00:03:28,976 --> 00:03:30,511 And I'm like, oh yeah, it's a normal tush. 82 00:03:30,644 --> 00:03:31,712 Not like a rock. - I think my ass was 83 00:03:31,845 --> 00:03:35,015 clenched from like four or five 84 00:03:35,148 --> 00:03:36,850 - until like... - Four months ago. 85 00:03:36,984 --> 00:03:38,151 - ...six months. - Yeah. 86 00:03:38,252 --> 00:03:39,420 Oh, my God. 87 00:03:39,587 --> 00:03:42,055 I think now it's like 88 00:03:42,189 --> 00:03:43,657 we've got this time 89 00:03:43,757 --> 00:03:46,360 and we're going to be together and, like, let's go. 90 00:03:46,494 --> 00:03:48,462 And that's an interesting thing, 91 00:03:48,562 --> 00:03:50,398 is the forgiveness aspect. 92 00:03:50,864 --> 00:03:53,634 - The pain does actually lessen. - Mm-hmm. 93 00:03:54,201 --> 00:03:57,505 But I don't think I've ever had to forgive anyone. 94 00:03:57,605 --> 00:03:59,407 So this feels really... 95 00:04:00,107 --> 00:04:01,509 new. 96 00:04:03,076 --> 00:04:04,545 And I feel-- I feel myself keep-- 97 00:04:04,678 --> 00:04:06,280 Like, I keep thinking like, "Am I doing it right? 98 00:04:06,447 --> 00:04:07,247 Am I doing it right?" 99 00:04:07,381 --> 00:04:08,582 What do you mean? 100 00:04:08,716 --> 00:04:10,418 Like, is this the way one forgives? 101 00:04:10,918 --> 00:04:14,388 I have this need to, like, do it the right way 102 00:04:14,922 --> 00:04:16,690 because then it will work. 103 00:04:17,190 --> 00:04:19,092 Like, how people say love is a verb. 104 00:04:19,226 --> 00:04:21,161 I feel like forgiveness is a verb. 105 00:04:21,261 --> 00:04:23,897 Like, it is something I will do every day. 106 00:04:24,031 --> 00:04:25,933 And I forgive myself for 13 years 107 00:04:26,066 --> 00:04:29,136 of making myself small to fit you. 108 00:04:30,338 --> 00:04:32,606 But I like forgiving you. It feels good. 109 00:04:33,541 --> 00:04:35,643 I want-- I have a couple of thoughts 110 00:04:35,809 --> 00:04:38,278 that I wanted to just run by you, um... 111 00:04:38,946 --> 00:04:41,549 First of all, I'm just noticing Chris, again, 112 00:04:41,682 --> 00:04:43,951 just to say back to you 113 00:04:44,084 --> 00:04:45,553 what the two of you already know, 114 00:04:45,686 --> 00:04:49,757 but that your feelings catch up with you slowly. 115 00:04:50,458 --> 00:04:52,259 And it's really great that you're 116 00:04:52,393 --> 00:04:53,627 paying attention to those. - Yeah. 117 00:04:53,761 --> 00:04:54,895 And now I know. 118 00:04:54,995 --> 00:04:56,897 Before I was like, I know I'm feeling, 119 00:04:57,030 --> 00:04:58,999 but I'm also not feeling this. 120 00:04:59,132 --> 00:05:00,233 So what is going on? 121 00:05:00,368 --> 00:05:02,069 Like, am I a sociopath? 122 00:05:02,202 --> 00:05:03,236 Like, what is this? 123 00:05:03,371 --> 00:05:04,605 And now I know it's just 124 00:05:04,738 --> 00:05:05,906 being pushed away for now. 125 00:05:06,039 --> 00:05:07,274 And it's gonna come... - Right. 126 00:05:07,408 --> 00:05:08,208 - ...when it comes and so... - Right. 127 00:05:08,308 --> 00:05:09,276 - Yeah. - ...just accept it. 128 00:05:09,410 --> 00:05:10,310 - And you made room for it to come. 129 00:05:10,444 --> 00:05:12,179 - [Chris] Yeah. - So that's great. 130 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,048 I also, um, want to say 131 00:05:15,148 --> 00:05:16,784 that it was really wonderful 132 00:05:16,917 --> 00:05:19,119 to feel your more full presence... 133 00:05:19,252 --> 00:05:21,822 - [laughs] - ...when you got mad. 134 00:05:21,989 --> 00:05:23,857 - Thank you. - [Orna] Yeah. 135 00:05:24,024 --> 00:05:25,559 You're just more here. 136 00:05:26,059 --> 00:05:28,629 Both of you are more here, which is really, 137 00:05:28,762 --> 00:05:30,498 - really lovely. - Yeah. 138 00:05:30,664 --> 00:05:34,868 And I just want to mark that you, for example, 139 00:05:35,002 --> 00:05:37,270 allowing yourself to feel more anger 140 00:05:37,638 --> 00:05:41,208 might put you in a difficult spot, 141 00:05:41,375 --> 00:05:42,843 considering your mom. 142 00:05:43,010 --> 00:05:44,177 Yeah. 143 00:05:44,344 --> 00:05:47,648 So, just to mark that and think about it. 144 00:05:47,781 --> 00:05:48,516 Oh, yeah, that-- 145 00:05:48,682 --> 00:05:50,350 I marked that right away. 146 00:05:50,484 --> 00:05:52,653 Reminding myself constantly 147 00:05:52,786 --> 00:05:54,488 that you're my safe place. 148 00:05:54,622 --> 00:05:57,190 - Even when angry. - Yes, exactly. 149 00:05:57,324 --> 00:05:58,626 Right, you probably need 150 00:05:58,726 --> 00:06:01,429 to kind of rehearse it and get familiar with it. 151 00:06:01,929 --> 00:06:04,164 I think what's more present, though, right now 152 00:06:04,297 --> 00:06:09,136 is like that I may need to, like, have... 153 00:06:10,170 --> 00:06:11,772 an outlet, you know? 154 00:06:11,872 --> 00:06:13,206 - Yeah. - And I don't know what that is. 155 00:06:13,373 --> 00:06:15,709 Maybe it's like kickboxing class or... 156 00:06:15,843 --> 00:06:16,777 Bring Tae Bo back. 157 00:06:16,877 --> 00:06:18,546 Right, but you're still thinking 158 00:06:18,712 --> 00:06:20,548 the outlet needs to be somewhere else. 159 00:06:20,714 --> 00:06:21,882 And not that it shouldn't, 160 00:06:22,049 --> 00:06:24,017 but what about between the two of you? 161 00:06:24,151 --> 00:06:25,118 - Yeah. - I don't know. 162 00:06:25,218 --> 00:06:26,754 I don't know how. [laughing] 163 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,156 - That's not true. You did. - [Sienna] I'm scared. 164 00:06:29,256 --> 00:06:30,691 I did. I did. 165 00:06:30,824 --> 00:06:32,225 - You did. - [Orna] You do know how. 166 00:06:32,392 --> 00:06:33,661 What was remarkable 167 00:06:33,794 --> 00:06:37,931 was your being present with big feelings, 168 00:06:38,398 --> 00:06:41,602 but also very kind and logical. 169 00:06:41,769 --> 00:06:42,803 [Sienna] Yeah. 170 00:06:42,903 --> 00:06:45,172 Very different from your mother. 171 00:06:45,606 --> 00:06:47,675 Yeah, and we can both trust that, 172 00:06:47,808 --> 00:06:49,409 that I'm still there, - Yeah. So different. Yeah. 173 00:06:49,543 --> 00:06:51,011 even though I have big feelings. 174 00:06:51,144 --> 00:06:52,880 - [Orna] Yeah. - Yeah. 175 00:06:53,013 --> 00:06:56,717 I think that one of the things that threw me, too, 176 00:06:56,850 --> 00:06:58,852 is my mom was all emotion. 177 00:06:58,986 --> 00:07:00,854 - [Orna] Yeah. - Nothing else. 178 00:07:00,954 --> 00:07:01,922 [Orna] Yeah. 179 00:07:02,089 --> 00:07:03,657 That's not the case with you at all. 180 00:07:03,757 --> 00:07:06,960 I-I-I feel really good about us. 181 00:07:07,728 --> 00:07:09,329 This has been... 182 00:07:10,764 --> 00:07:13,467 like a second chance. 183 00:07:13,601 --> 00:07:15,435 Like, it feels like we're getting married again. 184 00:07:15,603 --> 00:07:17,605 It feels like we're saying, like, 185 00:07:17,738 --> 00:07:19,473 - "Okay, here we go." - I feel the same way. 186 00:07:19,607 --> 00:07:22,275 It's crazy because we have three kids, 187 00:07:22,442 --> 00:07:24,878 but it feels like we're starting right now. 188 00:07:25,012 --> 00:07:27,347 ♪ electronic ambient music playing ♪ 189 00:07:29,750 --> 00:07:32,385 [Orna] They came in in a real crisis, 190 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:34,822 not sure if they are gonna make it. 191 00:07:34,955 --> 00:07:37,625 And they came out so strong. 192 00:07:39,059 --> 00:07:40,327 They realized that they-- 193 00:07:40,460 --> 00:07:42,162 Oh, they can actually deal with it. 194 00:07:42,329 --> 00:07:45,599 She can be angry. He can be present to her anger. 195 00:07:45,733 --> 00:07:47,568 They were like, "Oh my God, we... 196 00:07:47,701 --> 00:07:50,337 We can be in the presence of each other, 197 00:07:50,470 --> 00:07:52,673 with all of our complexities." 198 00:07:54,174 --> 00:07:55,743 And their relationship turned into 199 00:07:55,876 --> 00:07:58,178 like a much richer relationship. 200 00:08:01,114 --> 00:08:02,382 [meowing] 201 00:08:04,384 --> 00:08:06,019 Oh, hello! 202 00:08:06,453 --> 00:08:07,921 [Jason] Good boy. 203 00:08:08,055 --> 00:08:10,323 And then what's 25? 204 00:08:11,324 --> 00:08:13,894 [Orna] Both Marjorie and Jason, 205 00:08:13,994 --> 00:08:18,031 they're very eager to make use of therapy. 206 00:08:18,198 --> 00:08:19,667 They're fast learners, 207 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:21,869 and they're also fast forgetters. 208 00:08:23,537 --> 00:08:25,573 [Virginia] Even after he has this feeling like, 209 00:08:25,673 --> 00:08:27,340 - "Well, that was better." - [Orna] Yeah. 210 00:08:27,474 --> 00:08:28,876 The next time he's triggered, 211 00:08:29,042 --> 00:08:30,578 he forgets everything. 212 00:08:30,678 --> 00:08:32,680 I know, and I said a few times-- 213 00:08:32,846 --> 00:08:35,015 There were sessions in which I said, 214 00:08:35,148 --> 00:08:37,017 "I guess we've done nothing here." 215 00:08:37,150 --> 00:08:38,485 - Oh. - [laughs] 216 00:08:38,619 --> 00:08:40,921 That's the thing he's-- That's where he needs work. 217 00:08:41,021 --> 00:08:43,857 [Orna] Yeah, and it's not just Jason who's impulsive. 218 00:08:43,991 --> 00:08:45,392 It's Marjorie too. 219 00:08:45,525 --> 00:08:48,161 They do a lot in the session. 220 00:08:48,295 --> 00:08:49,863 It seems to get all better. 221 00:08:49,997 --> 00:08:51,498 And then they go back home 222 00:08:51,632 --> 00:08:53,200 and it's like Groundhog Day. 223 00:08:53,333 --> 00:08:54,968 It starts all over again. 224 00:08:56,737 --> 00:08:58,538 [Marjorie] I wanted to start the session 225 00:08:58,672 --> 00:09:00,407 before Jason starts talking. 226 00:09:00,540 --> 00:09:02,209 [all laugh] 227 00:09:02,743 --> 00:09:03,711 Uh-huh. 228 00:09:04,645 --> 00:09:08,682 Because I've been reflecting on the past few months, 229 00:09:08,816 --> 00:09:11,551 and I feel like we are getting so much better, 230 00:09:11,719 --> 00:09:14,454 but then we had like a huge fight yesterday, you know, 231 00:09:14,554 --> 00:09:16,123 and it's about something major. 232 00:09:16,223 --> 00:09:20,027 No, I mean, Marjorie, um... 233 00:09:20,728 --> 00:09:24,264 had an inclination that Ryan, our son, had... 234 00:09:24,832 --> 00:09:25,966 ADHD. 235 00:09:26,066 --> 00:09:26,967 Right. 236 00:09:27,067 --> 00:09:28,368 So Marjorie went to a doctor 237 00:09:28,501 --> 00:09:29,603 and have him diagnosed. 238 00:09:29,737 --> 00:09:31,204 Didn't go out like that, though. 239 00:09:31,338 --> 00:09:32,405 And I didn't know. 240 00:09:32,572 --> 00:09:33,874 I didn't go get him diagnosed. 241 00:09:34,007 --> 00:09:36,343 Went to the pediatrician on his yearly eval. 242 00:09:36,443 --> 00:09:39,112 [Jason] All I got was hit yesterday with, 243 00:09:39,246 --> 00:09:40,748 "Ryan got a diagnosis. 244 00:09:40,881 --> 00:09:42,415 They want to put him on medicine." 245 00:09:42,549 --> 00:09:44,484 - That's not how it went at all. - "Yay or nay?" 246 00:09:44,584 --> 00:09:46,319 And I lost my mind. 247 00:09:46,419 --> 00:09:47,721 - He's presenting it... - I got the text. 248 00:09:47,855 --> 00:09:48,756 ...to you awful. 249 00:09:48,922 --> 00:09:49,923 - [Orna] All right, let's... 250 00:09:50,090 --> 00:09:51,391 - It's not fair. - Well, I'm not trying. 251 00:09:51,524 --> 00:09:52,525 - That's how I feel, you know? - [Orna] Pause, pause. 252 00:09:52,660 --> 00:09:54,527 Just say the truth, not how you feel. 253 00:09:54,628 --> 00:09:57,430 Actually, in a way, you can listen to each other, 254 00:09:57,564 --> 00:09:59,299 not looking for "the truth," 255 00:09:59,466 --> 00:10:03,704 but looking for how did my partner experience this? 256 00:10:03,837 --> 00:10:06,539 - [Jason] Perceive it. Yes. - It's a very subjective thing. 257 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,109 - Fair enough. - So Jason's experience is, 258 00:10:09,242 --> 00:10:12,045 you "hit him" with... 259 00:10:12,145 --> 00:10:13,280 Yes. And I-- 260 00:10:13,413 --> 00:10:15,115 And that was brutal for me. 261 00:10:15,248 --> 00:10:16,717 I was very upset about this. 262 00:10:16,850 --> 00:10:17,951 Talk about your upset. 263 00:10:18,085 --> 00:10:19,619 [Jason] I was-- I was extremely upset. 264 00:10:19,753 --> 00:10:22,756 I felt like she did it because she was afraid of me, 265 00:10:22,890 --> 00:10:24,792 you know, shooting that idea down. 266 00:10:24,958 --> 00:10:28,495 So I feel like it was kind of done in a sneaky way. 267 00:10:28,662 --> 00:10:29,797 Do you understand what's 268 00:10:29,930 --> 00:10:30,630 upsetting to Jason? - [Marjorie] Yes. 269 00:10:30,764 --> 00:10:32,299 Can you convey that to him? 270 00:10:32,465 --> 00:10:35,969 I hear a hundred percent. He feels left out. 271 00:10:36,136 --> 00:10:39,006 He feels I did something behind his back. 272 00:10:39,940 --> 00:10:42,075 - And he's really upset about it. - [Orna] Yeah. 273 00:10:42,209 --> 00:10:44,577 Do you want to talk about your perspective now? 274 00:10:44,712 --> 00:10:46,980 And I'm gonna ask you to do the same kind of listening. 275 00:10:47,114 --> 00:10:48,648 Yes. I haven't told him everything 276 00:10:48,816 --> 00:10:50,183 because it was all text messages. 277 00:10:50,350 --> 00:10:51,752 It was a quick phone call, he was at work. 278 00:10:51,852 --> 00:10:54,021 So this will be the first time you're hearing it. 279 00:10:54,755 --> 00:10:56,456 Ryan is struggling in school, 280 00:10:56,589 --> 00:10:58,926 and I am talking to the physician. 281 00:10:59,026 --> 00:11:02,896 And I had told him some of my worries and concerns. 282 00:11:02,996 --> 00:11:06,233 And he said, "Well, we can absolutely do the assessment." 283 00:11:06,333 --> 00:11:09,302 It was a form that a parent fills out, 284 00:11:09,436 --> 00:11:11,604 and you send it to the school for the teacher. 285 00:11:11,739 --> 00:11:13,807 And yes, I did not tell you about that 286 00:11:13,941 --> 00:11:15,843 because I was worried about your reaction. 287 00:11:16,009 --> 00:11:17,544 And for that, I am sorry. 288 00:11:17,677 --> 00:11:19,046 You went behind my back, 289 00:11:19,212 --> 00:11:21,514 sent fax and emails about this whole situation. 290 00:11:21,648 --> 00:11:23,250 And I should have told you, and I'm sorry. 291 00:11:23,350 --> 00:11:24,818 - That's bullshit. - I was worried about your... 292 00:11:24,952 --> 00:11:26,219 The reaction I got yesterday - I don't care. 293 00:11:26,386 --> 00:11:29,022 - is why I didn't tell him. - He's not going. 294 00:11:29,156 --> 00:11:30,623 I'll pull him right from that pediatrician. 295 00:11:30,758 --> 00:11:32,893 He'll never go there again. Never again. 296 00:11:33,026 --> 00:11:35,896 I do want to remind you, Jason, 297 00:11:36,029 --> 00:11:38,331 even though I can understand why that would be 298 00:11:38,465 --> 00:11:40,533 absolutely infuriating for you, 299 00:11:41,068 --> 00:11:44,137 you also do things without asking Marjorie. 300 00:11:44,271 --> 00:11:46,306 The two of you operate kind of solo, 301 00:11:46,439 --> 00:11:48,175 like you send a letter to her mother 302 00:11:48,308 --> 00:11:51,044 that you know will be terribly upsetting. 303 00:11:51,178 --> 00:11:53,213 So then maybe I started a whole thing then. 304 00:11:53,346 --> 00:11:55,215 It's not about who started. 305 00:11:55,348 --> 00:11:57,050 I want you both to acknowledge 306 00:11:57,217 --> 00:11:59,319 that you're not operating as a team. 307 00:12:00,653 --> 00:12:03,390 You can say, "I do the same thing 308 00:12:03,523 --> 00:12:04,892 and this is not good for us." 309 00:12:05,025 --> 00:12:07,494 - [Jason] No, it's not. - "How are we getting out of this 310 00:12:07,627 --> 00:12:09,029 each operating solo?" 311 00:12:09,162 --> 00:12:10,697 [Marjorie] But I still haven't told you everything yet. 312 00:12:10,831 --> 00:12:12,966 I got a phone call yesterday from the pediatrician, 313 00:12:13,066 --> 00:12:14,835 and he was telling me all the options, 314 00:12:14,968 --> 00:12:17,938 and he said there's one particular medication. 315 00:12:18,105 --> 00:12:20,207 There was two, but he said the one would be best 316 00:12:20,340 --> 00:12:21,909 because it's not addict-- 317 00:12:22,042 --> 00:12:23,777 He said it's Adderall. He said it's a capsule. You can put-- 318 00:12:23,911 --> 00:12:25,145 - Yo. - Let me finish. 319 00:12:25,245 --> 00:12:26,546 - I can't even listen to this... - I'm not even-- 320 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:28,715 ...because I wasn't even there during the conversation. 321 00:12:28,849 --> 00:12:30,350 I don't care about any of this. - Because I-- 322 00:12:30,483 --> 00:12:32,219 First of all, so, you're... - Marjorie. 323 00:12:32,352 --> 00:12:33,887 - ...you're supposed to listen... - Marjorie. Marjorie. 324 00:12:34,021 --> 00:12:34,587 ...to me and repeat back... - I don't care about it. 325 00:12:34,754 --> 00:12:35,856 ...what I'm saying. 326 00:12:35,956 --> 00:12:36,924 - Marjorie... - [Jason] I do, but I don't care. 327 00:12:37,090 --> 00:12:37,858 - Stop. [Jason] You're not telling me 328 00:12:37,991 --> 00:12:39,592 how you feel. - Stop. 329 00:12:39,726 --> 00:12:40,861 [Jason] You're telling me the details about what happens. 330 00:12:40,994 --> 00:12:42,162 Because I haven't been able to talk about it. 331 00:12:42,262 --> 00:12:44,097 [Orna] Marjorie... Marjorie. One of the reasons 332 00:12:44,231 --> 00:12:47,767 Jason was particularly sensitive to this issue 333 00:12:47,901 --> 00:12:49,536 had to do with his history. 334 00:12:49,669 --> 00:12:51,704 - Yes. - So you have to be aware 335 00:12:51,805 --> 00:12:53,740 of who you're speaking to. 336 00:12:54,641 --> 00:12:56,109 - I understand that. - The Adderall? 337 00:12:56,276 --> 00:12:59,446 I know guys that buy Adderall on the streets. 338 00:12:59,579 --> 00:13:00,780 I understand that. 339 00:13:01,381 --> 00:13:03,283 - So, you can't expect this-- - I understand that. 340 00:13:03,450 --> 00:13:05,785 But I can't every time I say the fucking word Adderall 341 00:13:05,953 --> 00:13:09,722 or medication in regards to our son and my son, 342 00:13:10,123 --> 00:13:12,125 I can't have him shut me down immediately 343 00:13:12,259 --> 00:13:14,761 because at the end of the day, it's my kid too. 344 00:13:14,895 --> 00:13:16,663 - It is not just your son. - It is. 345 00:13:16,796 --> 00:13:18,298 - And if I need to-- - It is. 346 00:13:18,431 --> 00:13:21,068 So this is a difficult situation 347 00:13:21,168 --> 00:13:23,136 where, Jason, you're gonna be triggered 348 00:13:23,270 --> 00:13:24,337 by what you're hearing. 349 00:13:24,471 --> 00:13:26,173 - I am really triggered. - [Orna] Yeah. 350 00:13:26,339 --> 00:13:28,108 So take a deep breath 351 00:13:29,442 --> 00:13:30,610 and say to yourself, 352 00:13:30,743 --> 00:13:33,346 "All I need to do right now is listen." 353 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,448 And it's understandable. I understand it. 354 00:13:35,582 --> 00:13:37,450 Because you have this addiction history, 355 00:13:37,584 --> 00:13:38,718 because you have your own history. 356 00:13:38,818 --> 00:13:42,322 That doesn't mean Ryan is like you. 357 00:13:42,990 --> 00:13:44,757 Like, you just shut it completely down, 358 00:13:44,892 --> 00:13:47,027 and then you just immediately threaten divorce. 359 00:13:47,194 --> 00:13:48,328 And that is... 360 00:13:48,495 --> 00:13:50,097 That is what I'm more upset about, 361 00:13:50,197 --> 00:13:52,299 is that we can't even work this through 362 00:13:52,432 --> 00:13:54,401 and I have to be submissive again. 363 00:13:54,501 --> 00:13:56,169 And then like, I'm a shitty mom. 364 00:13:56,303 --> 00:13:58,838 I didn't do everything I could to try to help him. 365 00:13:58,972 --> 00:14:00,273 What do you hear? 366 00:14:00,373 --> 00:14:02,842 What do you hear that matters to Marjorie? 367 00:14:02,976 --> 00:14:04,744 [Jason] I'll give you what matters. 368 00:14:04,844 --> 00:14:06,346 You care about Ryan. 369 00:14:06,513 --> 00:14:10,683 You care about him over the medicine, 370 00:14:10,850 --> 00:14:13,553 over the diagnosis. 371 00:14:13,686 --> 00:14:15,688 The main thing you want 372 00:14:15,822 --> 00:14:18,125 is that he is successful, 373 00:14:18,258 --> 00:14:20,060 happy, and thrives. 374 00:14:20,193 --> 00:14:21,494 That's what you want. 375 00:14:21,628 --> 00:14:23,663 That's what matters the most to you, right? 376 00:14:23,796 --> 00:14:26,033 Yes, he's right. That's what matters to me. 377 00:14:26,166 --> 00:14:28,535 My son's happiness, safety, health 378 00:14:28,701 --> 00:14:29,569 and success. - [Orna] Yeah. 379 00:14:29,736 --> 00:14:30,870 As-- As me. 380 00:14:31,004 --> 00:14:33,974 So you both care about your son deeply 381 00:14:34,574 --> 00:14:37,544 and you have different ideas of how to go about it. 382 00:14:37,677 --> 00:14:39,379 [Jason] Wildly different ideas. 383 00:14:39,512 --> 00:14:40,747 I don't know if they're so wild. 384 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:42,649 I don't know if they're wildly different. 385 00:14:42,749 --> 00:14:46,519 Medicine would never be an option for me 386 00:14:46,653 --> 00:14:49,356 unless we tried every other-- 387 00:14:49,489 --> 00:14:52,225 I understand what you're saying, but we're monitoring it. 388 00:14:52,359 --> 00:14:53,860 I don't know how you go straight to medicine. 389 00:14:53,994 --> 00:14:56,563 Like, why wouldn't you put him in counseling first? 390 00:14:56,729 --> 00:14:58,398 Why can't he talk to a therapist? 391 00:14:58,531 --> 00:14:59,732 I have a suggestion for you. 392 00:14:59,899 --> 00:15:01,101 - [Jason] Yeah. - I have a suggestion. 393 00:15:01,268 --> 00:15:03,370 Everything that you're saying, can you use a tone 394 00:15:03,503 --> 00:15:08,275 that is gentle and at least sounds open? 395 00:15:09,509 --> 00:15:12,512 Like you're actually having a conversation. 396 00:15:12,645 --> 00:15:15,182 I understand you want to get him treated, Marge. 397 00:15:15,315 --> 00:15:19,419 And I think that there's some other alternatives out there 398 00:15:19,586 --> 00:15:21,788 that were, uh, outside of medicine. 399 00:15:21,955 --> 00:15:24,757 I think with a little hard work between you and I, 400 00:15:24,891 --> 00:15:27,727 I think a little discipline and structure in our house 401 00:15:27,860 --> 00:15:29,562 and not chalk it up to him 402 00:15:29,696 --> 00:15:34,034 possibly getting medicated for ADD or ADHD. 403 00:15:34,134 --> 00:15:38,138 Jason, it's a good moment to stop and see how it's landing. 404 00:15:39,072 --> 00:15:42,309 I'm surprised because when we talk, 405 00:15:42,442 --> 00:15:46,213 you always tell me he doesn't have it. 406 00:15:46,313 --> 00:15:50,283 You won't even acknowledge that he got a diagnosis. 407 00:15:51,051 --> 00:15:52,986 - No. - You won't do any education. 408 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,555 No, because I'd rather bring him to a professional 409 00:15:55,688 --> 00:15:57,157 that deals with that, not a pediatrician 410 00:15:57,324 --> 00:15:58,725 doing a wellness visit. 411 00:15:58,858 --> 00:16:01,594 - That's a compromise. - Okay. No problem. 412 00:16:02,129 --> 00:16:03,296 Now let's fix things. 413 00:16:03,430 --> 00:16:04,764 [Jason] I will do some research 414 00:16:04,897 --> 00:16:07,600 and I will find the best guy with the best reviews 415 00:16:07,734 --> 00:16:09,602 that takes our insurance, 416 00:16:09,736 --> 00:16:13,006 and we'll go there and we'll have a real conversation. 417 00:16:13,140 --> 00:16:15,742 - Him and I, and you, and Ryan. - Thats fine, I agree to that. 418 00:16:15,875 --> 00:16:17,010 I will agree to that. 419 00:16:17,144 --> 00:16:19,846 So what do you each need to do to unify? 420 00:16:19,979 --> 00:16:22,082 I need to, you know, maybe... 421 00:16:22,182 --> 00:16:24,584 Maybe, like, watch my tone a little bit. 422 00:16:24,684 --> 00:16:26,153 - [Orna] Excellent. - You know? 423 00:16:26,286 --> 00:16:27,454 Really try to, like, you know, 424 00:16:27,587 --> 00:16:30,290 articulate my words in a softer way. 425 00:16:30,423 --> 00:16:31,924 - Excellent. - [Jason] It's very hard because 426 00:16:32,025 --> 00:16:33,860 - I see what I see. - [Orna] That's the key. 427 00:16:33,993 --> 00:16:35,595 - It comes out, - [Orna] I know. 428 00:16:35,695 --> 00:16:38,631 But you've got to manage that. That is the key on your end. 429 00:16:38,765 --> 00:16:40,467 And Marjorie, what do you need to do 430 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:42,335 for the two of you to get on the same page? 431 00:16:42,469 --> 00:16:44,771 Um, listen to him 432 00:16:44,871 --> 00:16:48,341 and just try to understand where he's coming from. 433 00:16:48,475 --> 00:16:51,711 Yeah. You can say, "Can you please calm down? 434 00:16:51,878 --> 00:16:55,215 I want to hear you. Please speak in a softer tone. 435 00:16:55,348 --> 00:16:56,849 I want to hear you." 436 00:16:56,983 --> 00:16:58,851 Yeah, take a deep breath. I do want to listen to you. 437 00:16:58,985 --> 00:17:00,453 Oh, man, that was-- 438 00:17:00,587 --> 00:17:01,454 [Orna] That would go a long way. - I could just... I just didn't-- 439 00:17:01,588 --> 00:17:03,256 I fantasize that now... - Yeah. 440 00:17:03,356 --> 00:17:05,125 and I'm like, "Oh my God," you know? 441 00:17:05,258 --> 00:17:07,527 So we've done a few rounds of this. 442 00:17:07,660 --> 00:17:11,364 [Marjorie] Yes. - You totally have what you need. 443 00:17:11,498 --> 00:17:14,401 You have the capacity to do and to do great. 444 00:17:14,534 --> 00:17:16,736 ♪ mellow music playing ♪ 445 00:17:21,574 --> 00:17:23,676 [Orna] I think the two of them would benefit 446 00:17:23,810 --> 00:17:26,146 from a longer time in couples therapy. 447 00:17:26,613 --> 00:17:27,880 Just to keep rehearsing 448 00:17:28,047 --> 00:17:30,350 and kind of getting into their system 449 00:17:30,483 --> 00:17:32,719 the practice of listening better. 450 00:17:32,885 --> 00:17:35,722 I mean, they've had a lifetime of learning certain patterns, 451 00:17:35,855 --> 00:17:37,890 and now they need some time to rehearse 452 00:17:38,057 --> 00:17:39,526 and rehearse and rehearse. 453 00:17:44,231 --> 00:17:47,167 Shay and Clinton, man, this did not unfold 454 00:17:47,300 --> 00:17:49,402 the way I expected in the beginning. 455 00:17:49,536 --> 00:17:52,839 Yeah, he was playful and little goofy, and she loved that. 456 00:17:52,939 --> 00:17:55,208 Yeah. They worked really hard in the treatment. 457 00:17:55,342 --> 00:17:56,409 Really tried. 458 00:17:56,576 --> 00:17:57,844 They showed up even though 459 00:17:57,977 --> 00:17:59,746 it was like painful and difficult. 460 00:17:59,912 --> 00:18:01,914 And in their relationship, they both worked 461 00:18:02,081 --> 00:18:04,717 to try to be good friends, to be good partners, 462 00:18:04,851 --> 00:18:06,486 to understand each other. 463 00:18:08,087 --> 00:18:10,723 I'm going to see them one more time together. 464 00:18:12,058 --> 00:18:14,727 I mean, it could just fall apart, 465 00:18:14,861 --> 00:18:17,029 but my hope is 466 00:18:17,130 --> 00:18:19,232 they will make the transition 467 00:18:19,366 --> 00:18:22,769 from seeing each other as enemies 468 00:18:23,336 --> 00:18:27,340 to connecting to their friendship. 469 00:18:31,478 --> 00:18:32,779 How are you two? 470 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:35,315 I, uh... 471 00:18:36,082 --> 00:18:37,484 I'm well. I, uh... 472 00:18:37,617 --> 00:18:41,053 I took some notes from our last session 473 00:18:41,154 --> 00:18:45,958 and I realized I was never taught 474 00:18:46,493 --> 00:18:50,397 to really ever communicate my feelings. 475 00:18:50,530 --> 00:18:53,966 So I think I have a hard aversion to it sometimes. 476 00:18:54,133 --> 00:18:56,068 Whenever I start to emote my feelings, 477 00:18:56,169 --> 00:18:57,270 I start to break down. 478 00:18:57,404 --> 00:18:59,005 Well, it makes it more real. 479 00:18:59,138 --> 00:19:00,673 [Shay] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 480 00:19:00,807 --> 00:19:03,410 It's an experience when you're telling it to someone else. 481 00:19:03,543 --> 00:19:05,144 It's an experience. 482 00:19:05,845 --> 00:19:06,946 Um... 483 00:19:08,315 --> 00:19:10,483 I would say I've been sad, uh... 484 00:19:10,617 --> 00:19:13,320 Do you want to say it to Clinton? 485 00:19:14,354 --> 00:19:15,522 [sighs] 486 00:19:19,426 --> 00:19:20,360 Yeah. 487 00:19:21,361 --> 00:19:22,795 Okay, uh... 488 00:19:23,530 --> 00:19:24,731 [Shay sighs] 489 00:19:25,498 --> 00:19:26,666 I feel deeply sad 490 00:19:26,833 --> 00:19:29,502 that we're not connected anymore. 491 00:19:31,304 --> 00:19:34,307 It's been... It's been challenging... 492 00:19:34,807 --> 00:19:36,743 to go from talking to you every day 493 00:19:36,843 --> 00:19:38,711 to not speaking with you at all. 494 00:19:38,845 --> 00:19:40,146 It's been a... 495 00:19:43,216 --> 00:19:44,451 [sighs] 496 00:19:54,327 --> 00:19:56,095 I'm really heartbroken. 497 00:20:04,036 --> 00:20:05,572 And I've showed up every week, 498 00:20:05,738 --> 00:20:07,240 and hoping I could... 499 00:20:07,907 --> 00:20:11,043 That, like, I could find some middle ground 500 00:20:11,177 --> 00:20:13,680 that we could stand on together. 501 00:20:16,483 --> 00:20:18,718 And nothing worked, and... 502 00:20:22,322 --> 00:20:24,924 And I also feel really just... 503 00:20:25,057 --> 00:20:26,759 You moved on so quickly 504 00:20:26,893 --> 00:20:30,763 and, like, not only did I feel harmed, 505 00:20:31,264 --> 00:20:33,032 then I felt replaced. 506 00:20:35,001 --> 00:20:36,803 Shay, may I recommend that you-- 507 00:20:36,903 --> 00:20:38,905 I mean, this is wonderful. 508 00:20:39,038 --> 00:20:40,873 You're speaking what matters to you, 509 00:20:41,007 --> 00:20:43,510 but do you want to check in with Clinton, 510 00:20:43,643 --> 00:20:46,913 where he's at, listening to you? 511 00:20:47,046 --> 00:20:49,181 I'm okay. I'm listening. 512 00:20:49,749 --> 00:20:51,751 - [Orna] It's a lot. - Yeah. 513 00:20:52,419 --> 00:20:54,287 How are you doing? 514 00:20:54,421 --> 00:20:56,589 I mean, I feel sad too. 515 00:21:00,693 --> 00:21:03,262 And I hear where she's coming from. 516 00:21:07,734 --> 00:21:10,169 I guess that I miss her a lot. 517 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:14,607 And, like... 518 00:21:16,743 --> 00:21:18,044 [Clinton inhales deeply] 519 00:21:18,144 --> 00:21:19,512 [sighs] 520 00:21:20,079 --> 00:21:22,882 I can see that she felt 521 00:21:23,015 --> 00:21:26,886 that I was abandoning the relationship. 522 00:21:26,986 --> 00:21:28,187 [Orna] Yeah. 523 00:21:35,462 --> 00:21:37,296 I really wasn't, though. 524 00:21:38,197 --> 00:21:41,233 Can you describe it from within your experience? 525 00:21:41,368 --> 00:21:43,470 [tearfully] Like, sure. 526 00:21:43,603 --> 00:21:45,171 I was communic-- 527 00:21:45,338 --> 00:21:49,175 I found a community of people that I can talk to more, yeah. 528 00:21:50,142 --> 00:21:52,311 I don't have a lot of friends. 529 00:21:54,180 --> 00:21:57,417 Yeah, I did fall in love with this autistic person, 530 00:21:57,517 --> 00:22:00,019 but I love Shay. 531 00:22:00,152 --> 00:22:02,489 I wanted to marry her. 532 00:22:09,295 --> 00:22:13,533 I know I hurt Shay, and I'm really sorry. 533 00:22:16,369 --> 00:22:18,004 I really am. 534 00:22:21,641 --> 00:22:26,846 [Orna] Yeah, I appreciate how you can say it, Clinton. 535 00:22:26,979 --> 00:22:28,415 [crying] 536 00:22:42,429 --> 00:22:45,331 You know, Shay started the session talking about 537 00:22:45,465 --> 00:22:49,769 how it's hard for her to speak about feelings. 538 00:22:52,271 --> 00:22:56,909 And I think the fact that the two of you can be sad together 539 00:22:57,043 --> 00:22:58,711 and talk about it... 540 00:22:59,879 --> 00:23:02,014 is really important. 541 00:23:02,549 --> 00:23:07,186 That's sort of what resolution really is. 542 00:23:11,357 --> 00:23:13,059 I still love you very deeply. 543 00:23:13,192 --> 00:23:15,728 I always love you. 544 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:21,968 [crying] 545 00:23:27,406 --> 00:23:28,675 [sighs] 546 00:23:32,579 --> 00:23:34,313 [Shay] My makeup is ruined. 547 00:23:34,481 --> 00:23:35,848 [all laugh] 548 00:23:37,617 --> 00:23:39,385 ♪ uplifting music playing ♪ 549 00:23:56,769 --> 00:23:59,105 [Orna] I think breaking up well 550 00:23:59,672 --> 00:24:02,842 is an incredibly important lesson for people. 551 00:24:02,975 --> 00:24:06,078 There's just a huge amount of learning that can happen 552 00:24:06,212 --> 00:24:07,647 from breaking up well. 553 00:24:08,481 --> 00:24:12,418 And people can resume their journey as individuals... 554 00:24:13,486 --> 00:24:15,588 with a better understanding of themselves. 555 00:24:18,324 --> 00:24:19,325 Yeah! 556 00:24:27,834 --> 00:24:29,035 [Drea] I did notice 557 00:24:29,201 --> 00:24:33,372 that she seemed down a little bit 558 00:24:33,540 --> 00:24:35,374 after our last session, 559 00:24:35,508 --> 00:24:37,944 and then somehow within 24 hours, 560 00:24:38,077 --> 00:24:39,679 we're having sex with each other. 561 00:24:39,812 --> 00:24:41,280 Why are you making these faces? 562 00:24:41,413 --> 00:24:44,050 Because why are you saying that like that's something I did? 563 00:24:44,216 --> 00:24:45,818 - You did all of it. - No, I'm not-- Right. 564 00:24:45,952 --> 00:24:48,855 But what I'm saying is, I see a pattern in me saying, 565 00:24:49,021 --> 00:24:52,659 "You're right, therapist. We should have boundaries." 566 00:24:52,792 --> 00:24:54,894 And here's this line drawn. 567 00:24:55,027 --> 00:24:57,096 And then here comes Nessa like, 568 00:24:57,196 --> 00:24:59,065 "Hey..." you know? 569 00:24:59,198 --> 00:25:02,001 "You have a boundary or do you want some of this over here?" 570 00:25:02,134 --> 00:25:04,837 But it's not me trying to sabotage her boundaries. 571 00:25:04,971 --> 00:25:08,207 I think when I can see her 572 00:25:08,374 --> 00:25:09,642 as separate from me, 573 00:25:09,742 --> 00:25:11,811 that is attractive to me. - [Orna] Yeah. 574 00:25:12,211 --> 00:25:14,781 It's almost like a "catch me" kind of thing, 575 00:25:14,881 --> 00:25:17,650 "come and get me" kind of thing that you do. 576 00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:19,886 But you're saying it has an effect on you. 577 00:25:20,386 --> 00:25:22,421 - Yeah, if I could be honest. - [Orna] Yeah. 578 00:25:22,589 --> 00:25:23,723 Absolutely. 579 00:25:24,857 --> 00:25:26,859 That's your cat and mouse. 580 00:25:30,429 --> 00:25:33,733 [Orna] Nessa and Drea were basically breaking up 581 00:25:33,900 --> 00:25:36,603 and they came back the next session 582 00:25:36,769 --> 00:25:38,370 in a new place, 583 00:25:38,504 --> 00:25:40,306 deciding not to break up. 584 00:25:40,406 --> 00:25:42,675 And I think what happened there 585 00:25:42,775 --> 00:25:45,011 is the moment Drea announces herself 586 00:25:45,144 --> 00:25:46,713 as separate from her, 587 00:25:46,846 --> 00:25:50,416 Nessa can feel her own longings emerge. 588 00:25:51,017 --> 00:25:54,754 Nessa is on a journey to discover more of herself. 589 00:25:54,887 --> 00:25:57,423 I mean, the work we did in couples therapy 590 00:25:57,556 --> 00:26:00,126 is just the tip of the iceberg. 591 00:26:03,362 --> 00:26:06,933 I went from, "I need to get out of here." 592 00:26:07,066 --> 00:26:09,035 [laughs] 593 00:26:09,168 --> 00:26:12,872 "I'm gone-- I'm gone. How am I going to leave?" 594 00:26:12,972 --> 00:26:15,574 To, "Okay, space can be... 595 00:26:16,575 --> 00:26:19,311 um, made within the marriage." 596 00:26:19,478 --> 00:26:23,616 You know, I'm happy that she's doing the work for herself, 597 00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:26,719 which has kind of freed up some energy for me 598 00:26:26,819 --> 00:26:28,587 to pour into myself and do work for me 599 00:26:28,721 --> 00:26:31,090 because I know I need a lot of work too. 600 00:26:31,223 --> 00:26:32,424 - Mm-hmm. - [Nessa] Um... 601 00:26:32,558 --> 00:26:35,161 Can you say more about that? Because you're-- 602 00:26:35,327 --> 00:26:36,328 - My own work? - [Orna] Yeah. 603 00:26:36,462 --> 00:26:37,630 Sure, I-- 604 00:26:37,764 --> 00:26:40,266 I've experienced a lot, Orna. 605 00:26:40,399 --> 00:26:41,701 Um... 606 00:26:45,304 --> 00:26:48,140 When I... In my teenage years, 607 00:26:48,274 --> 00:26:51,644 15, 16, I survived a shooting with my brother. 608 00:26:51,778 --> 00:26:52,779 Mm. 609 00:26:52,912 --> 00:26:55,147 [Nessa] And because of the trauma, 610 00:26:55,281 --> 00:26:58,718 I didn't allow myself to be that little girl. 611 00:26:58,818 --> 00:27:01,620 That pink, soft, cared for. 612 00:27:01,754 --> 00:27:04,857 I didn't feel protected in the way that I should have. 613 00:27:04,991 --> 00:27:08,160 And I think it showed up in the way... 614 00:27:08,294 --> 00:27:10,229 Like, the persona that I put on 615 00:27:10,329 --> 00:27:12,999 where it was like, "Well, no, I could take care of it. 616 00:27:13,132 --> 00:27:14,667 I don't need nothing else." 617 00:27:14,801 --> 00:27:17,136 And I think the little girl that needed protection... 618 00:27:17,269 --> 00:27:19,438 - [Orna] Yeah. - ...fell all the way back. 619 00:27:20,172 --> 00:27:24,243 So that blocked off parts of me that are trying to come out, 620 00:27:24,343 --> 00:27:26,278 like, "Someone take care of me." 621 00:27:26,412 --> 00:27:27,714 - [Orna] Mm-hmm. - Right? 622 00:27:27,847 --> 00:27:29,648 And so I'm like, "Well, this is my wife. 623 00:27:29,782 --> 00:27:31,450 She's got to take care of me in that way." 624 00:27:31,583 --> 00:27:34,821 And she's like, "No, you take care of me. 625 00:27:34,954 --> 00:27:36,322 This is how we built this." 626 00:27:36,455 --> 00:27:39,391 And I'm like, okay, but there's still that part of me 627 00:27:39,525 --> 00:27:40,559 that needs that. 628 00:27:40,693 --> 00:27:41,928 So where do I find that? 629 00:27:42,594 --> 00:27:45,865 Have you heard Nessa describe it this way before? 630 00:27:46,032 --> 00:27:48,901 You know, I've never heard her relate 631 00:27:49,035 --> 00:27:53,906 her tough guy personality to... 632 00:27:55,174 --> 00:27:58,410 you know, that intimate and having to change 633 00:27:58,577 --> 00:28:00,212 because of that situation. - [Orna] Yeah. 634 00:28:00,379 --> 00:28:03,082 I know even when she talks about it now, 635 00:28:03,215 --> 00:28:06,853 she dates pictures in her mind. 636 00:28:06,986 --> 00:28:08,320 "Oh, this is before my brother got shot. 637 00:28:08,420 --> 00:28:11,557 Oh, this is after my brother got shot." 638 00:28:11,690 --> 00:28:14,794 I think I want to take some blame. 639 00:28:14,894 --> 00:28:17,163 I know blame is not important here, 640 00:28:17,663 --> 00:28:19,365 but I just feel like 641 00:28:19,498 --> 00:28:21,700 I thought that the more I controlled her, 642 00:28:21,834 --> 00:28:24,570 the more it was set in stone 643 00:28:24,737 --> 00:28:27,039 that she would be here with me forever. 644 00:28:27,673 --> 00:28:32,879 So I feel like the more I grow up and realize that... 645 00:28:33,645 --> 00:28:35,414 this person can exist outside of me 646 00:28:35,581 --> 00:28:39,351 while still being, you know, part of this union with me, 647 00:28:39,451 --> 00:28:43,122 kind of, I don't know, the easier some of this is. 648 00:28:43,689 --> 00:28:46,658 Every time Drea says something that I'm like... 649 00:28:46,759 --> 00:28:47,626 [sighs] 650 00:28:47,794 --> 00:28:49,261 ...it's like I can breathe 651 00:28:49,428 --> 00:28:52,131 in that one space where I wasn't breathing. 652 00:28:52,298 --> 00:28:53,800 [Orna] Mm-hmm. 653 00:28:53,933 --> 00:28:55,935 [Drea] And also, and I said I wasn't going to bring this up. 654 00:28:56,068 --> 00:28:57,469 - Uh-oh. - Well, never mind. 655 00:28:57,636 --> 00:28:58,737 - No, I'm not gonna bring... - You can't do that. 656 00:28:58,871 --> 00:28:59,738 - I won't bring it up. - You can't do that. 657 00:28:59,872 --> 00:29:02,074 - And also-- - [Drea] We had... 658 00:29:02,875 --> 00:29:06,478 We recently had sex. 659 00:29:06,612 --> 00:29:08,915 We were, like, wrapped up in each other 660 00:29:09,048 --> 00:29:10,349 when we went to sleep. 661 00:29:10,449 --> 00:29:12,785 Just... 662 00:29:12,919 --> 00:29:16,956 It just-- It reminded me of when we first met. 663 00:29:17,089 --> 00:29:20,026 It felt just normal. 664 00:29:20,126 --> 00:29:21,327 It was very nice. 665 00:29:22,294 --> 00:29:24,596 [Orna] Any-- You want to add any words there? 666 00:29:24,730 --> 00:29:26,799 - No. - Just it was very nice. 667 00:29:31,070 --> 00:29:32,404 It's been, um, 668 00:29:32,504 --> 00:29:35,808 really a treat 669 00:29:35,942 --> 00:29:37,443 working with the two of you. 670 00:29:37,576 --> 00:29:38,811 - Wow. - Really. 671 00:29:38,978 --> 00:29:41,547 So deliciously smart, really. 672 00:29:41,647 --> 00:29:43,315 I'm deliciously smart is what I heard. 673 00:29:43,449 --> 00:29:45,517 - [all laugh] - You are. You are. 674 00:29:45,684 --> 00:29:46,853 Well, I will miss you two. 675 00:29:46,986 --> 00:29:48,287 - Aw, thank you. - I miss you too, Orna. 676 00:29:48,420 --> 00:29:49,488 Thank you so much. 677 00:29:49,655 --> 00:29:50,489 Which one of us was your favorite? 678 00:29:50,622 --> 00:29:52,124 - Was it me? - [all laugh] 679 00:29:52,258 --> 00:29:53,559 Come on, I know it was me. 680 00:29:53,659 --> 00:29:56,628 ♪ Lay down your head ♪ 681 00:29:56,762 --> 00:29:57,796 Bye, Nico. 682 00:29:57,930 --> 00:30:00,266 ♪ Lay down your head ♪ 683 00:30:00,399 --> 00:30:04,170 ♪ And I'll pick up instead ♪ 684 00:30:04,670 --> 00:30:08,274 [Orna] When you understand that a lot of what people do 685 00:30:08,374 --> 00:30:11,844 is motivated by forces that they're not aware of, 686 00:30:12,544 --> 00:30:15,447 you can feel much more compassion towards them. 687 00:30:15,547 --> 00:30:17,216 - Can I give you a hug too? - [Jason] Yeah. 688 00:30:17,349 --> 00:30:18,684 Okay, bye. 689 00:30:18,851 --> 00:30:20,652 And when you hear what people have gone through, 690 00:30:20,786 --> 00:30:24,891 and understand how they've become who they've become... 691 00:30:26,025 --> 00:30:29,595 it opens up like the horizon to understand 692 00:30:29,695 --> 00:30:32,098 who's there in front of you. 693 00:30:32,198 --> 00:30:35,567 We got tattoos to commemorate our time here. 694 00:30:35,734 --> 00:30:37,003 - Do you have one too? - Yeah. 695 00:30:37,136 --> 00:30:38,871 [Sienna] It's a broken heart with a Band-Aid. 696 00:30:39,005 --> 00:30:39,805 [Orna] Oh... 697 00:30:40,272 --> 00:30:43,542 ♪ Clinging to the ledge now ♪ 698 00:30:43,675 --> 00:30:45,544 ♪ Brought to your limit ♪ 699 00:30:45,677 --> 00:30:47,713 ♪ Pull back and space out ♪ 700 00:30:47,846 --> 00:30:49,748 ♪ Then brick by brick ♪ 701 00:30:49,882 --> 00:30:51,750 ♪ I tear your wall down ♪ 702 00:30:51,918 --> 00:30:55,721 ♪ Make sure you know that I'm here to stay ♪ 703 00:30:57,656 --> 00:31:01,627 ♪ Let's dance it away ♪ 704 00:31:02,728 --> 00:31:04,663 ♪ Away ♪ 705 00:31:06,165 --> 00:31:08,534 ♪ A taste of escape ♪ 706 00:31:11,170 --> 00:31:13,605 ♪ Escape ♪ 707 00:31:14,106 --> 00:31:16,909 ♪ Get carried away ♪ 708 00:31:17,076 --> 00:31:18,644 ♪ Away ♪ 709 00:31:18,744 --> 00:31:20,947 ♪ Away ♪ 710 00:31:22,548 --> 00:31:24,650 ♪ Till nothing remains ♪ 711 00:31:25,251 --> 00:31:28,320 ♪ Away, away ♪ 712 00:31:28,921 --> 00:31:30,589 [laughing] 713 00:31:31,857 --> 00:31:34,660 ♪ I'll hold you close ♪ 714 00:31:36,395 --> 00:31:38,364 ♪ Another dose ♪ 715 00:31:38,497 --> 00:31:41,533 ♪ I take your lips ♪ 716 00:31:41,633 --> 00:31:43,169 ♪ The most ♪ 717 00:31:48,140 --> 00:31:51,310 ♪ Clinging to the ledge now ♪ 718 00:31:51,443 --> 00:31:53,379 ♪ Brought to your limit ♪ 719 00:31:53,512 --> 00:31:55,447 ♪ Pull back and space out ♪ 720 00:31:55,581 --> 00:31:57,283 ♪ Then brick by brick ♪ 721 00:31:57,449 --> 00:31:59,385 ♪ I tear your wall down ♪ 722 00:31:59,485 --> 00:32:03,755 ♪ Make sure you know that I'm here to stay ♪ 723 00:32:05,257 --> 00:32:07,359 ♪ Let's dance it away ♪ 724 00:32:10,462 --> 00:32:13,465 ♪ Away ♪ 725 00:32:13,632 --> 00:32:16,202 ♪ A taste of escape ♪ 726 00:32:18,170 --> 00:32:21,607 ♪ Escape ♪ 727 00:32:21,740 --> 00:32:24,843 ♪ You're carried away ♪ 728 00:32:24,977 --> 00:32:26,512 ♪ Away ♪ 729 00:32:26,945 --> 00:32:27,813 ♪ Away 730 00:32:27,980 --> 00:32:30,516 ♪ Let's dance it away ♪