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So why the long face, Horse?
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00:00:43,826 --> 00:00:44,174
I'm just having
a little girl trouble.
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00:00:44,305 --> 00:00:46,002
Bitch pressing charges?
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I get that a lot.
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00:00:48,787 --> 00:00:51,660
Holden McNeil was set
in his ways.
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The way he worked,
the way he lived,
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and the way he thought
love should be.
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But then she showed up.
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Miramax Films presents a comedy
that tells it like it feels.
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She's been around
and seen things
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we've only read about
in books.
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- What'd you do last night?
- Got lucky.
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"Chasing Amy."
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And now, at last, we come
to what at least I think
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is the only good movie
on this week's show.
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It's called "Chasing Amy,"
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and it was written
and directed by Kevin Smith,
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who made a name for himself
a few years ago
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with a very low budget comedy
named "Clerks."
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Now he's back
with "Chasing Amy,"
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which is a terrific film--
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well written, well acted--
about a love affair
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that forces a comic book artist
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to question all of his ideas
about himself.
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Do you understand
why I love this movie so much?
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No.
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Give us a quick, you know,
thumbnail sketch of the plot.
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It's about a guy who falls
in love with a lesbian.
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I love you.
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Finds out she's had
heterosexual relationships
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and can't deal with that.
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I want us to be something
that we can't be.
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And what's that?
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A normal couple.
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In the late '90s,
it was still an occasion
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to have a really big
queer film come out.
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00:02:12,219 --> 00:02:13,916
And this was big.
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Ultimately, it made $12 million
in the box office.
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There was Hollywood, and then
there's independent film.
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And when an independent film
broke through,
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everybody noticed.
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It's extremely personalized,
extremely good.
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00:02:28,452 --> 00:02:30,106
I've never really seen
a romantic comedy
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like it ever in my life.
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It's a well-crafted film
that came out
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in that great '90s era
of indie filmmaking.
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Kevin Smith definitely
was one of the young kings
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of independent film.
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"'Chasing Amy' is obviously
a personal film for Smith--
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a chance to work through his
masculinity issues on screen."
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I do know that he's talked about
it being based on a relationship
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that he had at one time.
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You got this
Golden Globe nomination.
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- Are you excited?
- I am. I'm very excited.
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If I wrote about real life,
"Chasing Amy" would be all about
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the fact that
I couldn't stand that
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my girlfriend at the time
had went to Bali
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when she was younger
and I didn't.
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I think he was being true
to himself
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and being as true as he could
to the the subject matter.
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It directly addressed issues
of intersectionality,
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sociopolitical issues,
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and really looked
at identity politics
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in a way that most films hadn't.
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It's oh-so acceptable
to be a gay girl nowadays.
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People think it's cute.
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Do you find the film
to be authentic
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to the LGBTQ community?
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00:03:30,122 --> 00:03:34,126
No, I find it to be authentic
to the straight white dude
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who happens to fall
for a queer woman community.
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This is a movie about
a woman who is a lesbian
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and decides to be with a man.
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I'm like, "You know, that's, uh,
gonna be controversial."
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There are some people
that inevitably are going to see
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a lesbian no longer
being a lesbian
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by meeting "the right man"
and rejecting that entirely.
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Set aside the notion
that any lesbian
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can be magically turned straight
if the right guy comes along.
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What's extra offensive
in hindsight
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00:04:04,679 --> 00:04:07,072
is the idea that that guy
would be Ben Affleck.
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When I first saw the movie,
like,
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I thought it was
kind of dumb but harmless.
85
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That would have been excellent
for the poster tagline--
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Dumb but Harmless.
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00:04:14,819 --> 00:04:18,388
There were some people
in the community
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who did not appreciate
the ambiguity, the subtlety.
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There were a lot of
question marks in that film.
90
00:04:25,613 --> 00:04:27,528
I mean, it's not rocket science.
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A straight man tells
a lesbian story,
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and now everyone's
paying attention.
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I hear the word problematic
with "Chasing Amy" a lot.
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Is it bad that
it's problematic?
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Is it okay that
it's kind of divisive?
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Did you see that?
Your dyke-courting ass
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just got me scored on.
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Sometimes something that's
problematic can still mean
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a lot in your development.
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It was, I think, a brave film
at the time
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to portray somebody who's...
fluid.
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I know that
there's a lot of controversy
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about these older gay films,
but at the same time,
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like, it meant something
to you as a filmmaker
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and, like, that is, like,
an undeniable thing.
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I do have more respect for
this film than I thought I did,
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less because of how
it's put together
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and more for what
it was able to do
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for people like you.
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I do have a question--
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why do you want
to make this movie?
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When I was 12,
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I exclusively wanted
to watch Ben Affleck movies.
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It's an incredibly specific
thing for a child to demand.
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But Ben Affleck was the star
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of the 2003 superhero film
"Daredevil."
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Naturally,
I was in love with him.
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One day, while raiding
my family's movie collection,
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I came across an unfamiliar box
with Mr. Affleck's face on it.
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The title read "Chasing Amy."
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"Chasing Amy" had everything
that I wanted.
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The characters were
comic book writers.
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They spoke
in romantic monologues
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about the kind of love that
only seemed to exist in movies.
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And there were openly
queer people,
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and I didn't realize what
a big deal that would be for me.
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Around this time,
I entered junior high school.
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Young me did not have it
particularly easy.
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While I was lucky
to have a few people
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that I could call friends,
I often felt isolated,
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but wasn't really sure why.
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In one violent incident
in the seventh grade,
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a group of boys surrounded me
as I waited for my mom
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to pick me up after school.
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I regarded these kids
as my friends.
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So imagine my shock
when they started pushing me,
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threatening me and hurling words
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like "dyke," "queer,"
and "faggot" at me.
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I had never heard the word
"dyke" before in my life.
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This wasn't the last time
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00:07:05,294 --> 00:07:07,514
I'd encounter homophobia
as an adolescent,
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but it was the first time
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I realized just how
I was being othered.
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See, it sucks when everyone else
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knows you're queer
before you do,
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because then you don't
have anything
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to protect yourself with.
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These young men weaponized my
perceived sexuality against me.
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Back then, there were
virtually no consequences
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for homophobic bullying
in Kansas.
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But I did have this one movie.
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I had a movie where the gay and
lesbian characters were good.
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They were intelligent
and funny and out.
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They were able to live
as their authentic selves.
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And you know what?
The spirit of "Chasing Amy"
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kept me alive for years to come,
despite the suicidal thoughts
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that began to permeate
from the trauma
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I was continuously
experiencing at school.
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No matter what
I was dealing with,
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I had this one movie
to bring me solace.
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I once kept this movie
in my DVD player for a month.
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I would watch it at least once
a day every day for 30 days.
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Now, to be fair,
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I didn't know that
there were other gay movies.
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Nowadays, I'm a filmmaker,
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and because I can't seem
to shake this topic,
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I'm now directing a project
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about the legacy of
"Chasing Amy" as an LGBTQ film.
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It's by far the most dramatic
way of saying "thank you"
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I could possibly think of.
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Thank you.
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The whole store, like,
looks the same.
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It feels like I'm stepping into,
like, a time capsule
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00:08:50,138 --> 00:08:51,531
- in the best way.
- Yeah.
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00:08:51,661 --> 00:08:53,663
You know,
all the racks are the same.
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00:08:53,794 --> 00:08:55,622
I don't think the T-shirts
or the books were over there.
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00:08:55,752 --> 00:08:56,492
No.
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00:08:56,623 --> 00:08:58,755
And over here was cassingles,
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which kind of dates it
pretty badly, but, uh...
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00:09:02,237 --> 00:09:03,847
But the exterior,
the carpet.
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00:09:03,978 --> 00:09:05,588
Oh, yeah.
It really feels like
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00:09:05,719 --> 00:09:07,459
I watched the movie and then
just, like, walked over here.
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Maybe what's really
troubling you
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00:09:09,113 --> 00:09:11,289
is that your fragile fantasy
might not be true.
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00:09:11,420 --> 00:09:12,421
You remember that,
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00:09:12,552 --> 00:09:14,510
♪ Never will forget this,
never ♪
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00:09:14,641 --> 00:09:17,121
I want to get the rights
to that song
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00:09:17,252 --> 00:09:20,124
and just, like, do a montage
of this whole day.
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00:09:20,255 --> 00:09:22,823
♪ Never will forget this, I
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00:09:22,953 --> 00:09:25,129
♪ Never will, never will,
never will forget this ♪
191
00:09:25,260 --> 00:09:27,828
♪ Never will forget this, I
192
00:09:27,958 --> 00:09:30,395
♪ Never will, never will,
never will forget this ♪
193
00:09:30,526 --> 00:09:32,920
♪ Never will forget this, I
194
00:09:33,050 --> 00:09:35,009
♪ Never will, never will,
never will forget this ♪
195
00:09:40,405 --> 00:09:42,494
Hey. Hey!
196
00:09:45,410 --> 00:09:47,630
♪ Never will forget this, I
197
00:09:47,761 --> 00:09:49,806
♪ Never will, never will,
never will forget this ♪
198
00:09:51,286 --> 00:09:52,461
Wow.
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00:09:56,030 --> 00:09:56,900
I'm a little nervous.
200
00:10:00,512 --> 00:10:01,470
I didn't know what I expected.
201
00:10:01,601 --> 00:10:03,167
I did not expect all this.
This is cool.
202
00:10:04,342 --> 00:10:06,040
- Ta da da!
- Oh, my.
203
00:10:06,170 --> 00:10:07,302
Oh, my God.
204
00:10:07,432 --> 00:10:09,957
That's the original piece
right up there.
205
00:10:10,087 --> 00:10:12,612
Did they ever make, like,
a full "Chasing Amy" comic?
206
00:10:12,742 --> 00:10:14,048
Does that exist somewhere?
207
00:10:14,178 --> 00:10:15,397
- No.
- Okay.
208
00:10:15,527 --> 00:10:16,659
Just the last page
and the cover.
209
00:10:16,790 --> 00:10:18,226
Right.
210
00:10:18,356 --> 00:10:19,967
I feel like I know
as much about "Chasing Amy"
211
00:10:20,097 --> 00:10:21,664
without knowing Kevin
or actually physically
212
00:10:21,795 --> 00:10:23,535
- being present, and so.
- Gotcha.
213
00:10:23,666 --> 00:10:24,972
Everybody else's question
in my life is, like,
214
00:10:25,102 --> 00:10:26,364
why are you doing this?
215
00:10:26,495 --> 00:10:27,975
It's to pay tribute
to this movie,
216
00:10:28,105 --> 00:10:31,021
but also to see why do
LGBTQ people not like this movie
217
00:10:31,152 --> 00:10:32,806
and, like, what makes
good representation.
218
00:10:32,936 --> 00:10:35,112
It's an honest movie,
if nothing else.
219
00:10:35,243 --> 00:10:37,419
- Yes.
- It's shown from--
220
00:10:37,549 --> 00:10:38,812
from Kevin's point of view.
221
00:10:38,942 --> 00:10:40,770
Seeing that movie,
like, I was like,
222
00:10:40,901 --> 00:10:42,293
"Oh, this is an option."
223
00:10:42,424 --> 00:10:44,382
I am gay or I am straight,
basically, right?
224
00:10:44,513 --> 00:10:45,340
Yeah. You had one
of two options.
225
00:10:45,470 --> 00:10:46,994
Yeah.
226
00:10:47,124 --> 00:10:49,213
Like, and now, more people are
coming out today more than ever,
227
00:10:49,344 --> 00:10:51,041
but they're coming out
as, like, bisexual/pansexual.
228
00:10:51,172 --> 00:10:54,262
You know, there's been
a total shift in the mindset.
229
00:10:54,392 --> 00:10:56,133
And "Chasing Amy" helped me,
like,
230
00:10:56,264 --> 00:10:57,787
figure out that,
"Oh, that's me."
231
00:10:57,918 --> 00:11:00,790
A lot of people love
"Chasing Amy" just for that,
232
00:11:00,921 --> 00:11:02,096
that it was so honest
and so raw.
233
00:11:02,226 --> 00:11:03,140
Yeah.
234
00:11:03,271 --> 00:11:04,489
- Do you like the movie?
- Love it.
235
00:11:04,620 --> 00:11:05,839
I love all of Kevin's movies,
236
00:11:05,969 --> 00:11:08,102
even the ones
that nobody else likes.
237
00:12:01,372 --> 00:12:03,679
Holy shit.
238
00:12:03,810 --> 00:12:05,333
I don't even.
239
00:12:05,463 --> 00:12:07,770
What do you even push?
240
00:12:07,901 --> 00:12:10,991
- Uh... I don't know.
- Knock, I suppose.
241
00:12:11,121 --> 00:12:12,688
All right.
242
00:12:14,821 --> 00:12:17,345
- Oh, wow. Hi. Hi.
- Hi. I'm Emily.
243
00:12:17,475 --> 00:12:19,477
Hey, nice to meet you.
244
00:12:19,608 --> 00:12:22,829
This is Brad.
Wow.
245
00:12:22,959 --> 00:12:24,874
Holy shit!
246
00:12:27,616 --> 00:12:29,313
This is bonkers.
247
00:12:35,406 --> 00:12:37,060
Hello? Oh, my God.
248
00:12:38,061 --> 00:12:40,411
Oh, my God.
How are you?
249
00:12:40,542 --> 00:12:43,806
So good. Welcome to the house
that Amy built in many ways.
250
00:12:43,937 --> 00:12:45,460
This is amazing.
251
00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:47,070
She friendly? He friendly?
252
00:12:47,201 --> 00:12:48,768
She's very.
She's just crippled as hell.
253
00:12:53,903 --> 00:12:55,992
That's from
"Chasing Amy."
254
00:12:56,123 --> 00:12:57,820
Chasing Amy
was fucking pivotal
255
00:12:57,951 --> 00:12:59,735
because it changed me
as a filmmaker,
256
00:12:59,866 --> 00:13:01,128
it changed me
as a professional,
257
00:13:01,258 --> 00:13:03,957
it changed me as a human being
and stuff.
258
00:13:04,087 --> 00:13:06,916
It is kind of the movie
without which nothing else
259
00:13:07,047 --> 00:13:08,526
fucking happens.
260
00:13:08,657 --> 00:13:10,615
I'm just so fucking happy
you made that movie.
261
00:13:10,746 --> 00:13:12,574
I mean, it's--
You and me both.
262
00:13:12,704 --> 00:13:14,097
I mean, I can't--
263
00:13:14,228 --> 00:13:15,620
I don't want to cry
because I'm an ugly crier.
264
00:13:15,751 --> 00:13:17,492
But--
You and me both.
265
00:13:19,276 --> 00:13:21,452
We're both, uh--
I know you cry pretty easily
266
00:13:21,583 --> 00:13:22,366
from the Internet.
All the time.
267
00:13:22,497 --> 00:13:23,890
Oh, my God.
268
00:13:24,020 --> 00:13:25,369
I love that you're a dude
that, like,
269
00:13:25,500 --> 00:13:26,631
feels his feelings.
That dude wouldn't exist
270
00:13:26,762 --> 00:13:28,024
were it not
for "Chasing Amy."
271
00:13:28,155 --> 00:13:29,939
Like...
"This dude wouldn't exist
272
00:13:30,070 --> 00:13:32,246
if not for 'Chasing Amy.'"
273
00:13:32,376 --> 00:13:34,726
That's funny.
274
00:13:45,389 --> 00:13:46,695
Where is she at?
275
00:13:50,307 --> 00:13:53,397
She says she's coming out.
Where are you?
276
00:13:59,882 --> 00:14:01,579
Anyway, I'm more excited.
I'm not nervous.
277
00:14:01,710 --> 00:14:03,712
And I know I didn't forget
how to kiss, but...
278
00:14:13,896 --> 00:14:15,593
I got you these flowers.
279
00:14:20,903 --> 00:14:23,297
To your right, sorry.
To your right.
280
00:14:23,427 --> 00:14:25,429
That is just too--
that's too far over.
281
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,389
That's too far.
That's still too far.
282
00:14:28,519 --> 00:14:30,043
It's off center.
It looks weird.
283
00:14:30,173 --> 00:14:31,479
Oh, my God. Filmmakers.
284
00:14:31,609 --> 00:14:33,046
- Is that fine?
- That should be okay.
285
00:14:33,176 --> 00:14:35,700
Okay. If not,
I can always take it off.
286
00:14:35,831 --> 00:14:37,224
- The key to my heart?
- Yeah.
287
00:14:37,354 --> 00:14:39,095
You're gonna take it off?
288
00:14:39,226 --> 00:14:40,836
You could have given me
an engagement ring already.
289
00:14:42,055 --> 00:14:43,012
Yep.
290
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:46,929
I'm Riley,
and I'm Sav's girlfriend.
291
00:14:49,453 --> 00:14:51,064
Yeah! Finger cuffs.
292
00:14:51,194 --> 00:14:54,806
We've known each other for,
like, seven years maybe.
293
00:14:54,937 --> 00:14:57,505
That's gay.
294
00:14:57,635 --> 00:15:01,335
We met each other
when we were very little.
295
00:15:01,901 --> 00:15:03,206
Okay.
296
00:15:03,337 --> 00:15:05,382
It feels like a long time ago.
297
00:15:05,513 --> 00:15:07,428
When I was 17
and you were 18.
298
00:15:08,646 --> 00:15:10,126
- We met online.
- Whoo!
299
00:15:10,257 --> 00:15:11,388
On Tumblr.
300
00:15:11,519 --> 00:15:12,215
You got to move
your shoulders, too, though.
301
00:15:12,346 --> 00:15:13,869
- I did.
- You did it terribly.
302
00:15:16,698 --> 00:15:19,831
We were nerdy teenagers
that liked "Glee,"
303
00:15:19,962 --> 00:15:20,832
and we became friends.
304
00:15:20,963 --> 00:15:23,966
Oh, oh, and we bonded over
your lies.
305
00:15:24,097 --> 00:15:25,489
- My lies?
- Yeah.
306
00:15:25,620 --> 00:15:28,405
I was like, "Oh, my God,
I love 'Lord of the Rings.'"
307
00:15:28,536 --> 00:15:29,624
And you were like,
"Oh my God,
308
00:15:29,754 --> 00:15:31,104
I love 'Lord of the Rings,'
too."
309
00:15:31,234 --> 00:15:32,757
Little did I know,
you had no idea
310
00:15:32,888 --> 00:15:34,585
what you were talking about.
311
00:15:34,716 --> 00:15:36,674
No, I really liked you
and wanted to be your friend,
312
00:15:36,805 --> 00:15:38,981
so I lied about liking
"Lord of the Rings."
313
00:15:39,112 --> 00:15:42,245
This whole relationship
is based on a lie.
314
00:15:42,376 --> 00:15:45,161
Yeah, you were like, "Oh,
I want to name my dog 'Gimli.'"
315
00:15:45,292 --> 00:15:47,859
And I was like, "Gimli?"
And you were like,
316
00:15:47,990 --> 00:15:49,905
"From 'Lord of the Rings.'"
Everybody knows that.
317
00:15:50,036 --> 00:15:52,212
I was like, "Oh, shit.
I've been caught."
318
00:15:52,342 --> 00:15:54,083
I wanted you to be
my friend really bad,
319
00:15:54,214 --> 00:15:55,911
and I thought that if I didn't
like "Lord of the Rings,"
320
00:15:56,042 --> 00:15:57,739
you wouldn't want
to talk to me anymore.
321
00:15:57,869 --> 00:15:59,610
We followed each other,
322
00:15:59,741 --> 00:16:03,310
and one day, we started
messaging each other on the--
323
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:05,138
on the website,
and then one day,
324
00:16:05,268 --> 00:16:07,879
I was going to be away
from my computer
325
00:16:08,010 --> 00:16:09,925
and I just couldn't stand
the thought
326
00:16:10,056 --> 00:16:12,058
of not talking to you
for that long.
327
00:16:12,188 --> 00:16:14,277
I think it was, like,
a long weekend or something,
328
00:16:14,408 --> 00:16:16,714
and I was just like, "Okay,
this is a little weird,
329
00:16:16,845 --> 00:16:19,979
but, you know,
can you give me your number?
330
00:16:20,109 --> 00:16:22,024
I'll give you mine,
and we can text."
331
00:16:22,155 --> 00:16:24,592
That was, like, a kind of
a crucial step
332
00:16:24,722 --> 00:16:27,464
to our relationship--
as friends, at this point.
333
00:16:27,595 --> 00:16:28,596
Check this out.
334
00:16:28,726 --> 00:16:29,989
There's a "Chasing Amy" hat
down there.
335
00:16:30,119 --> 00:16:31,816
- Yeah, I see it.
- And then there's a--
336
00:16:31,947 --> 00:16:33,557
I think that's French?
337
00:16:33,688 --> 00:16:35,820
- A French VHS of "Chasing Amy."
- Yeah.
338
00:16:42,131 --> 00:16:43,393
And I told Kevin,
I was like,
339
00:16:43,524 --> 00:16:44,873
"Oh, man, you have
the hat at the store."
340
00:16:45,004 --> 00:16:46,222
And he's like,
"Do you want it?"
341
00:16:46,353 --> 00:16:47,528
And I was like, "Kevin,
that's your hat.
342
00:16:47,658 --> 00:16:48,659
I don't need it."
343
00:16:48,790 --> 00:16:50,009
Why didn't you say yes?
344
00:16:50,139 --> 00:16:52,185
If Kevin wants to get me a hat,
he can get me a hat,
345
00:16:52,315 --> 00:16:53,708
but I'm not going to
take the one from the store.
346
00:16:55,753 --> 00:16:57,494
Get on it, Kevin.
347
00:16:59,714 --> 00:17:02,456
Lovely. Lovely.
348
00:17:02,586 --> 00:17:03,805
That's just me.
349
00:17:03,935 --> 00:17:05,459
Fucking look at that.
350
00:17:05,589 --> 00:17:07,548
- Are you in it?
- Yeah.
351
00:17:07,678 --> 00:17:09,202
I think that's smart.
352
00:17:09,332 --> 00:17:12,031
I mean, I'm not thrilled
about it, necessarily.
353
00:17:12,161 --> 00:17:13,336
No, I think that's smart.
354
00:17:13,467 --> 00:17:16,600
But--
You had me at "Hello."
355
00:17:16,731 --> 00:17:18,994
- All right, sound.
- Rolling.
356
00:17:19,125 --> 00:17:20,996
- Cameras.
- Speed. Speed.
357
00:17:21,127 --> 00:17:23,477
That speed? Okay.
358
00:17:23,607 --> 00:17:25,131
K1, Take 1--
soft sticks.
359
00:17:26,784 --> 00:17:28,395
Can you take me through
the genesis
360
00:17:28,525 --> 00:17:31,137
of creating "Chasing Amy?"
361
00:17:31,267 --> 00:17:32,964
"Chasing Amy"
is a weird bouillabaisse, right?
362
00:17:33,095 --> 00:17:36,272
Like, for years, I've told
a version of, you know,
363
00:17:36,403 --> 00:17:39,058
why that movie happened,
and they're all true,
364
00:17:39,188 --> 00:17:44,150
but it's more like all of them
rather than any one single path.
365
00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,718
Donald, my brother,
being gay plays a big part
366
00:17:47,849 --> 00:17:50,112
in what "Chasing Amy" becomes.
367
00:17:50,243 --> 00:17:53,072
When I told my brother I wanted
to be a filmmaker, I said,
368
00:17:53,202 --> 00:17:54,464
"What about movies?
369
00:17:54,595 --> 00:17:56,684
It must be irritating to sit
through a fucking movie
370
00:17:56,814 --> 00:17:57,989
where two people that
you don't identify with, like,
371
00:17:58,120 --> 00:17:59,208
fucking fall in love."
372
00:17:59,339 --> 00:18:00,818
And he goes, "Well,
I can identify with love."
373
00:18:00,949 --> 00:18:02,864
You had me at "Hello."
374
00:18:02,994 --> 00:18:06,389
"But yeah, it's weird that 99%
of the things that I go out
375
00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,523
to see are about
straight people."
376
00:18:09,653 --> 00:18:11,568
I committed in my head
in that moment,
377
00:18:11,699 --> 00:18:13,570
I'm always going to fucking try
to whip in
378
00:18:13,701 --> 00:18:16,660
a little gay content for Don.
Then I got Scott Mosier,
379
00:18:16,791 --> 00:18:18,401
and this has everything
to do with where
380
00:18:18,532 --> 00:18:19,663
"Chasing Amy" comes from.
381
00:18:19,794 --> 00:18:21,752
When we met in film school,
we were just like,
382
00:18:21,883 --> 00:18:23,885
"Hey, like, you write a movie,
I'll write a movie,
383
00:18:24,015 --> 00:18:26,061
and then we'll go make it."
I wrote some piece of shit,
384
00:18:26,192 --> 00:18:28,063
and he wrote "Clerks."
385
00:18:28,194 --> 00:18:30,935
So I finished "Clerks" first,
and he came down and kind of
386
00:18:31,066 --> 00:18:34,113
got trapped into the role
of de facto producer.
387
00:18:37,986 --> 00:18:39,553
To go back
to the very, very beginning,
388
00:18:39,683 --> 00:18:41,294
we make "Clerks"
389
00:18:41,424 --> 00:18:42,991
and we get into Sundance,
390
00:18:43,122 --> 00:18:46,081
and John Pierson
is repping the film,
391
00:18:46,212 --> 00:18:48,866
and he's also repping
a film called "Go Fish,"
392
00:18:48,997 --> 00:18:51,521
which was written
by Guinevere Turner
393
00:18:51,652 --> 00:18:53,523
and directed by Rose Troche.
394
00:18:58,441 --> 00:19:00,878
My name is Guinevere Turner.
395
00:19:01,009 --> 00:19:06,232
I am a screenwriter,
a filmmaker, an actress,
396
00:19:06,362 --> 00:19:09,409
a lover, a warrior,
and a warrior princess.
397
00:19:11,106 --> 00:19:12,368
Everyone was looking
forward to "Go Fish."
398
00:19:12,499 --> 00:19:13,891
Everyone knew
about the avant garde,
399
00:19:14,022 --> 00:19:15,763
black and white lesbian movie
and stuff.
400
00:19:15,893 --> 00:19:18,896
Our movie was-- like,
there was no buzz whatsoever.
401
00:19:19,027 --> 00:19:23,249
"Clerks" and "Go Fish,"
which was my first film, are--
402
00:19:23,379 --> 00:19:25,164
They're basically,
like, siblings
403
00:19:25,294 --> 00:19:27,992
in the indie film world
of the '90s.
404
00:19:28,123 --> 00:19:29,820
They are black and white.
405
00:19:29,951 --> 00:19:33,041
They are endless chatter
that only the people
406
00:19:33,172 --> 00:19:35,565
who are being represented
would care about.
407
00:19:35,696 --> 00:19:38,002
It's all about everybody
being on your side, as well.
408
00:19:38,133 --> 00:19:40,048
It's not only about romance.
409
00:19:40,179 --> 00:19:42,093
It's about having good friends,
and it's about having people
410
00:19:42,224 --> 00:19:43,965
rooting for you, you know?
411
00:19:44,095 --> 00:19:45,532
And yeah, those are things
that-- those are-- I think
412
00:19:45,662 --> 00:19:47,403
that's what makes it
a universal film.
413
00:19:47,534 --> 00:19:52,974
"Go Fish" comes out of a very
instinctive need to be, like,
414
00:19:53,104 --> 00:19:55,194
"What the fuck?"
415
00:19:55,324 --> 00:19:57,457
Where are we
in lesbian movies?
416
00:19:57,587 --> 00:19:59,676
We weren't even outraged,
we were so young.
417
00:19:59,807 --> 00:20:03,506
We were confused about, like,
why haven't we seen ourselves?
418
00:20:03,637 --> 00:20:05,378
The girls were on fire
because their movie
419
00:20:05,508 --> 00:20:07,641
was playing long
before ours and stuff.
420
00:20:07,771 --> 00:20:10,818
So we started hanging out
with them there.
421
00:20:10,948 --> 00:20:13,255
But, you know, Scott's, like,
funny and charming--
422
00:20:13,386 --> 00:20:15,475
like, way more funny and
charming than me, to be honest.
423
00:20:15,605 --> 00:20:19,305
And so him and Gwen, like,
hit it off instantly.
424
00:20:19,435 --> 00:20:24,484
I became incredibly smitten
or sort of,
425
00:20:24,614 --> 00:20:27,574
like, enthralled
with Guinevere Turner.
426
00:20:27,704 --> 00:20:31,491
I just developed what I can
only call
427
00:20:31,621 --> 00:20:34,494
a romantic friendship
with Scott Mosier,
428
00:20:34,624 --> 00:20:39,238
who was just--
is just a lovely person.
429
00:20:39,368 --> 00:20:44,330
Like, Kevin is a smart ass,
asshole, wonderful fuck face.
430
00:20:44,460 --> 00:20:47,637
Scott Mosier is the yin
to that yang.
431
00:20:47,768 --> 00:20:49,944
He'd go up to the city
and hang out with Gwen,
432
00:20:50,074 --> 00:20:51,554
and Gwen would come down
to New Jersey
433
00:20:51,685 --> 00:20:52,816
and hang out with Scott.
434
00:20:52,947 --> 00:20:54,557
They would just go, like,
fuck off.
435
00:20:54,688 --> 00:20:56,820
And then they'd hang out
in Scott's room with, like,
436
00:20:56,951 --> 00:20:58,996
the door closed
and, you know...
437
00:20:59,127 --> 00:21:01,172
This girl is gay.
438
00:21:01,303 --> 00:21:04,915
We were in this moment
where we had all
439
00:21:05,046 --> 00:21:10,530
just become filmmakers of note
while not expecting it at all.
440
00:21:10,660 --> 00:21:15,274
And I just spent
a lot of time with Mosier.
441
00:21:15,404 --> 00:21:17,276
I just loved him.
442
00:21:17,406 --> 00:21:20,540
Part of "Chasing Amy" comes
from me watching that and going,
443
00:21:20,670 --> 00:21:22,803
"You should do a movie."
I literally said to Scott,
444
00:21:22,933 --> 00:21:25,936
"You should write a movie
about this shit."
445
00:21:26,067 --> 00:21:27,547
In the moment he said it,
446
00:21:27,677 --> 00:21:29,244
I was like, "I don't even know
what it is."
447
00:21:29,375 --> 00:21:32,029
Like, I had no clarity
about what, like--
448
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:33,683
I don't even know
what the story was.
449
00:21:33,814 --> 00:21:35,294
I'd sort of expressed
how I felt,
450
00:21:35,424 --> 00:21:37,600
and I knew how she felt,
and I knew who she was,
451
00:21:37,731 --> 00:21:41,082
so by sort of laying
all the cards on the table,
452
00:21:41,212 --> 00:21:42,605
I think it actually
is the reason
453
00:21:42,736 --> 00:21:45,391
why we had this sort
of romantic friendship.
454
00:21:47,262 --> 00:21:49,438
- I love you.
- I love you, too.
455
00:21:49,569 --> 00:21:51,571
- This is really cool.
- What?
456
00:21:51,701 --> 00:21:53,399
This park is awesome.
This place is awesome.
457
00:21:53,529 --> 00:21:55,183
Being here with you
is awesome.
458
00:21:55,314 --> 00:21:57,490
I don't remember exactly
the first time I saw your face.
459
00:21:57,620 --> 00:21:59,492
It was probably pretty early on.
460
00:21:59,622 --> 00:22:03,713
Being able to put a face
to this--
461
00:22:03,844 --> 00:22:08,239
like, best friend that I kept
in my pocket was amazing.
462
00:22:08,370 --> 00:22:10,372
And then I heard your voice
and I was like,
463
00:22:10,503 --> 00:22:12,679
"That is the sexiest voice
464
00:22:12,809 --> 00:22:15,986
I've ever heard
in my entire life."
465
00:22:16,117 --> 00:22:17,814
I'm always self-conscious
of being on camera, so--
466
00:22:17,945 --> 00:22:19,903
but I'm way more self-conscious
when you're here, though,
467
00:22:20,034 --> 00:22:21,557
- for some reason.
- Why?
468
00:22:21,688 --> 00:22:23,646
I don't know,
'cause I think our relationship
469
00:22:23,777 --> 00:22:25,431
is pretty private.
470
00:22:25,561 --> 00:22:27,389
I like you, Holden.
471
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,435
I haven't liked a man
in a long time,
472
00:22:29,565 --> 00:22:32,133
and I want you to feel
comfortable with me
473
00:22:32,263 --> 00:22:34,657
because I'd really like us
to be friends.
474
00:22:34,788 --> 00:22:39,706
So part of it was Scott
and Gwen going like, "Man,
475
00:22:39,836 --> 00:22:41,272
like, fucking,
what a great story.
476
00:22:41,403 --> 00:22:42,665
The guy falls in love
with a lesbian.
477
00:22:42,796 --> 00:22:45,276
You should write that
as a movie. No? I'll do it."
478
00:22:51,021 --> 00:22:52,153
It's kind of weird
being in a place
479
00:22:52,283 --> 00:22:53,241
where, like...
480
00:22:55,417 --> 00:22:56,766
a bunch of stuff,
like, changed your life.
481
00:22:56,897 --> 00:22:58,289
You know,
like, the fact that, like,
482
00:22:58,420 --> 00:23:00,814
"Clerks" happened
made "Chasing Amy" happen.
483
00:23:00,944 --> 00:23:03,556
I don't feel, like, transformed
emotionally or anything,
484
00:23:03,686 --> 00:23:06,820
but it's cool to, like,
come to a place
485
00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:11,390
where my life was weirdly
affected in a positive way.
486
00:23:17,265 --> 00:23:19,006
All right, let's go.
487
00:23:24,141 --> 00:23:27,014
"Clerks" began my career.
"Mallrats" killed my career.
488
00:23:27,144 --> 00:23:29,364
So you got me needing
to do something to stay
489
00:23:29,495 --> 00:23:31,018
in this business,
or else we were out.
490
00:23:31,148 --> 00:23:33,629
That's a big part of
where that movie comes from.
491
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:34,891
And then, of course,
Joey.
492
00:23:35,022 --> 00:23:37,720
Holden, Banky,
this pile of PMS
493
00:23:37,851 --> 00:23:39,200
is Alyssa Jones.
494
00:23:39,330 --> 00:23:44,379
The character of Alyssa
is actually a confluence of me,
495
00:23:44,510 --> 00:23:48,557
his only lesbian friend,
and Joey,
496
00:23:48,688 --> 00:23:52,518
who he met and fell in love with
on the set of "Mallrats."
497
00:23:52,648 --> 00:23:54,171
My next guest
is a very talented actress
498
00:23:54,302 --> 00:23:55,912
who's been getting great reviews
for her role
499
00:23:56,043 --> 00:23:58,567
in the film "Chasing Amy."
It's in theaters right now.
500
00:23:58,698 --> 00:24:01,222
Please welcome
Joey Lauren Adams.
501
00:24:04,965 --> 00:24:06,749
"Chasing Amy" without
Joey would have been
502
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,056
a soulless husk.
503
00:24:09,186 --> 00:24:12,363
Like, an idea-- Joey and I
are in this relationship,
504
00:24:12,494 --> 00:24:14,017
and then we're starting
to have these issues,
505
00:24:14,148 --> 00:24:16,019
that becomes more interesting
to me, where I'm like,
506
00:24:16,150 --> 00:24:18,892
"Well, maybe that should be
what the movie's about."
507
00:24:19,022 --> 00:24:21,938
So maybe the idea is a guy
falls in love with a lesbian,
508
00:24:22,069 --> 00:24:23,897
but like, what trips him up
is not, like,
509
00:24:24,027 --> 00:24:25,333
that he's fallen in love
with a lesbian.
510
00:24:25,464 --> 00:24:27,640
What trips him up
is, like, at one point,
511
00:24:27,770 --> 00:24:29,076
she had sex with a guy.
512
00:24:29,206 --> 00:24:30,599
I was very much like Holden.
513
00:24:30,730 --> 00:24:32,906
I was very insecure
about girlfriends past
514
00:24:33,036 --> 00:24:34,298
at the time
that I wrote that movie.
515
00:24:34,429 --> 00:24:36,083
I have a very particular...
516
00:24:37,476 --> 00:24:41,741
fondness for Joey Lauren Adams.
517
00:24:41,871 --> 00:24:47,224
She is an Arkansas farm gal
and so grounded.
518
00:24:47,355 --> 00:24:48,704
- You come from...
- Arkansas.
519
00:24:48,835 --> 00:24:50,967
Arkansas, all right.
And you got--
520
00:24:51,098 --> 00:24:53,448
Is your family there--
are they pretty conservative?
521
00:24:53,579 --> 00:24:55,276
Yeah, so I have some,
you know,
522
00:24:55,406 --> 00:24:57,757
members that are very religious
and then others who aren't.
523
00:24:57,887 --> 00:24:59,628
They're just a little
backwards sometimes.
524
00:24:59,759 --> 00:25:03,980
And of course, young women
often have an image
525
00:25:04,111 --> 00:25:07,723
and are not allowed to be
much more than that image.
526
00:25:07,854 --> 00:25:09,943
You got bent out of shape the
same way over that costume party
527
00:25:10,073 --> 00:25:11,553
when we were in high school.
528
00:25:11,684 --> 00:25:13,555
You fucked Rick Derris
on a pool table--
529
00:25:13,686 --> 00:25:14,904
with everyone watching,
no less.
530
00:25:15,035 --> 00:25:16,645
It was a costume party, T.S.
531
00:25:16,776 --> 00:25:18,081
No one could tell
it was me.
532
00:25:18,212 --> 00:25:22,172
But I appreciated her
down-to-earthness
533
00:25:22,303 --> 00:25:25,654
and her native intelligence.
534
00:25:25,785 --> 00:25:27,438
You play someone like Alyssa
in "Chasing Amy,"
535
00:25:27,569 --> 00:25:29,745
who's so with it and articulate,
it's hard to go
536
00:25:29,876 --> 00:25:32,966
and play the obligatory
girlfriend in some film.
537
00:25:33,096 --> 00:25:35,229
And this character is strong
and smart and funny.
538
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,232
Dire Straits has a song
called "Romeo and Juliet,"
539
00:25:38,362 --> 00:25:40,756
and there's a really wonderful
line in it where he says,
540
00:25:40,887 --> 00:25:44,194
"I dreamed your dreams for you,
and now your dreams are real."
541
00:25:44,325 --> 00:25:45,805
That's what it always felt like.
542
00:25:45,935 --> 00:25:49,635
She really wanted
to be that actress.
543
00:25:51,071 --> 00:25:53,160
She was friends
with Parker Posey,
544
00:25:53,290 --> 00:25:55,249
and Parker, the year before
was the indie "it" girl
545
00:25:55,379 --> 00:25:56,816
with a movie "Party Girl."
546
00:25:56,946 --> 00:25:58,818
♪ And me
547
00:25:58,948 --> 00:26:00,776
Like, Joey wanted that--
to be considered,
548
00:26:00,907 --> 00:26:02,561
like, an actress,
serious actress.
549
00:26:02,691 --> 00:26:06,521
And within, like, a year's time,
two years time,
550
00:26:06,652 --> 00:26:08,697
I was able to give her
that kind of gift wrapped.
551
00:26:08,828 --> 00:26:10,351
But, you know,
she had a lot to do with it.
552
00:26:10,481 --> 00:26:12,788
The Golden Globe--
that's a big, big deal.
553
00:26:12,919 --> 00:26:13,876
I think you do
really, really nice work.
554
00:26:14,007 --> 00:26:14,921
Thank you.
555
00:26:15,051 --> 00:26:16,226
And you're going to be
a big star.
556
00:26:16,357 --> 00:26:18,185
Thank you. This is, like,
the pinnacle of my career.
557
00:26:18,315 --> 00:26:19,665
"Chasing Amy" and the rest
558
00:26:19,795 --> 00:26:21,231
of my fucking
professional career
559
00:26:21,362 --> 00:26:23,712
was forged in a cauldron of--
of two years.
560
00:26:23,843 --> 00:26:26,802
Not just my career, but who
I would become as a person.
561
00:26:26,933 --> 00:26:31,981
Generally speaking, it all ends
if "Chasing Amy" doesn't happen.
562
00:26:32,112 --> 00:26:35,681
But if you went back and told
27-year-old Kevin Smith that,
563
00:26:35,811 --> 00:26:40,381
"Hey, man, fucking--
to get all that,
564
00:26:40,511 --> 00:26:43,645
you have to sacrifice
this relationship,"
565
00:26:43,776 --> 00:26:47,170
that kid wouldn't have done it.
566
00:26:47,301 --> 00:26:51,697
That kid was so surprised that
everything crumbled after that.
567
00:26:51,827 --> 00:26:54,569
He thought it would only
make things, like, stronger.
568
00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:56,397
He was very naive.
569
00:27:09,628 --> 00:27:11,412
I've been in love with you--
570
00:27:11,542 --> 00:27:12,718
it sounds stupid
to say from, like,
571
00:27:12,848 --> 00:27:14,589
the first second
we started talking,
572
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,591
but that's really how
it feels.
573
00:27:16,722 --> 00:27:20,247
I don't remember a time knowing
you that I did not like you
574
00:27:20,377 --> 00:27:23,119
or love you so expansively,
575
00:27:23,250 --> 00:27:25,208
it felt like it was going
to swallow my heart whole.
576
00:27:25,339 --> 00:27:26,993
I thought it was so cool
that you were, like,
577
00:27:27,123 --> 00:27:29,691
an out lesbian
to your friends.
578
00:27:29,822 --> 00:27:32,433
I was very out on the Internet,
very closeted in real life.
579
00:27:58,894 --> 00:28:00,766
I'd picked a date
that I was going to tell you
580
00:28:00,896 --> 00:28:02,768
that I liked you,
581
00:28:02,898 --> 00:28:05,901
and you were the first person
I came out to as queer,
582
00:28:06,032 --> 00:28:10,253
because I wanted you to know
that I was a romantic option.
583
00:28:10,384 --> 00:28:12,647
And it was the entire reason
I came out.
584
00:28:15,998 --> 00:28:19,785
You were the first person
that I talked to every day
585
00:28:19,915 --> 00:28:22,091
and the last person
I talked to at night.
586
00:28:23,614 --> 00:28:24,615
SHE SAID "YES"!
587
00:28:24,746 --> 00:28:26,400
The second my alarm
went off at,
588
00:28:26,530 --> 00:28:28,315
like, six in the morning
or something,
589
00:28:28,445 --> 00:28:31,318
I was already texting you, and
you were up at the same time,
590
00:28:31,448 --> 00:28:34,974
and we were just, like, texting
back and forth, back and forth.
591
00:28:36,758 --> 00:28:38,847
We helped each other
get through the day
592
00:28:38,978 --> 00:28:41,284
because back then when we met,
593
00:28:41,415 --> 00:28:43,896
it was dark times
for both of us.
594
00:28:44,026 --> 00:28:47,464
You know, being a teen
is just the worst thing ever,
595
00:28:47,595 --> 00:28:49,771
and we just helped each other.
596
00:28:49,902 --> 00:28:52,252
Fellas, I'm off the market
officially.
597
00:28:52,382 --> 00:28:54,210
What about to the ladies?
598
00:28:54,341 --> 00:28:55,603
Ladies, actually.
599
00:29:06,527 --> 00:29:08,485
- Hey, everybody.
- Hi.
600
00:29:08,616 --> 00:29:10,444
We're filming BTS.
Is that okay?
601
00:29:10,574 --> 00:29:11,445
Say again?
602
00:29:11,575 --> 00:29:12,359
Is it okay
if we film some BTS?
603
00:29:12,489 --> 00:29:13,490
- Happily.
- All right.
604
00:29:13,621 --> 00:29:15,666
Folks, here's some of
the most metal water
605
00:29:15,797 --> 00:29:18,104
you will ever drink
in your life.
606
00:29:18,234 --> 00:29:21,324
This is what you said
of John Pierson in 2003--
607
00:29:21,455 --> 00:29:23,936
"It's rare when you become
friendly with your heroes.
608
00:29:24,066 --> 00:29:26,677
It's rarer still when, even
after ten years of friendship
609
00:29:26,808 --> 00:29:28,984
and familiarity,
they remain your heroes."
610
00:29:29,115 --> 00:29:32,118
I guess I never really thought
of you as as my hero growing up
611
00:29:32,248 --> 00:29:34,337
because I was just
a "Chasing Amy" fanatic,
612
00:29:34,468 --> 00:29:37,819
but in this process of getting
to make this movie,
613
00:29:37,950 --> 00:29:40,735
I think you have become
a, you know, a hero,
614
00:29:40,866 --> 00:29:43,694
not on a pedestal,
but as the the person
615
00:29:43,825 --> 00:29:45,958
who helped make
all of this possible.
616
00:29:46,088 --> 00:29:48,134
You know, I'd be lying
if I was like, "Oh, my God,
617
00:29:48,264 --> 00:29:50,136
I was trying to reach you."
You know what I'm saying?
618
00:29:50,266 --> 00:29:53,269
But you got reached regardless.
And I didn't know it was you,
619
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,185
but, like, I was telling
my story. That's all I ever do.
620
00:29:56,316 --> 00:29:59,188
But when you told me
the story, I'm like,
621
00:29:59,319 --> 00:30:03,192
"Oh, I haven't met you before,
but I've met you before."
622
00:30:03,323 --> 00:30:06,674
People who are like,
"That fucking saved my life."
623
00:30:06,805 --> 00:30:09,590
Your case stands out
because I'm like,
624
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,418
"Savannah's way too young
for this shit to matter."
625
00:30:11,548 --> 00:30:13,637
They've made way too many
better,
626
00:30:13,768 --> 00:30:15,509
more expressive,
more on point,
627
00:30:15,639 --> 00:30:20,688
more from the community
point of view movies than this.
628
00:30:20,819 --> 00:30:23,473
But when you explained it
and, you know, in the TED Talk,
629
00:30:23,604 --> 00:30:25,127
I was like,
"That makes sense."
630
00:30:25,258 --> 00:30:28,652
It was surprising
but delightful
631
00:30:28,783 --> 00:30:31,220
that you found
something in it.
632
00:30:31,351 --> 00:30:35,181
Like that, it played a role
in your world.
633
00:30:35,311 --> 00:30:37,009
Like, as an artist,
as the guy who made it,
634
00:30:37,139 --> 00:30:39,576
of course, that just means,
like, everything.
635
00:30:39,707 --> 00:30:41,796
All right, let's stop
for a minute.
636
00:31:06,952 --> 00:31:08,301
Are you happy?
637
00:31:20,182 --> 00:31:22,750
So we started dating,
and I was out
638
00:31:22,881 --> 00:31:25,579
and completely open
to being queer, but...
639
00:31:26,972 --> 00:31:28,190
you were not.
640
00:31:28,321 --> 00:31:30,627
We were dating for two years
by the time you came out
641
00:31:30,758 --> 00:31:32,847
- as queer to your family.
- Yeah.
642
00:31:32,978 --> 00:31:35,197
I'm from Mexico City,
born and raised--
643
00:31:35,328 --> 00:31:39,767
one of the first cities in the
world to legalize gay marriage.
644
00:31:39,898 --> 00:31:44,380
However, in my--
in my family, in my circle,
645
00:31:44,511 --> 00:31:46,687
there was--
it was like, "Okay,
646
00:31:46,817 --> 00:31:48,689
it's great that gay people
can get married,
647
00:31:48,819 --> 00:31:51,039
but, you know,
can they do it over there?"
648
00:31:54,825 --> 00:31:58,351
Ow! Hide my double chin.
649
00:31:58,481 --> 00:32:03,965
I wanted to talk to you
about the thing I told my dad
650
00:32:04,096 --> 00:32:06,707
because, you know, he's my dad.
651
00:32:06,837 --> 00:32:07,621
Yeah?
652
00:32:07,751 --> 00:32:08,665
But I was
a little bit worried
653
00:32:08,796 --> 00:32:11,364
because he can be
a little bit traditional
654
00:32:11,494 --> 00:32:13,714
and, like, honestly,
I don't even know
655
00:32:13,844 --> 00:32:17,457
how much he knows about,
like, trans people.
656
00:32:17,587 --> 00:32:20,939
Personally, I was very nervous
because I didn't want anybody
657
00:32:21,069 --> 00:32:23,724
to be anything other than
nice to you and accepting.
658
00:32:23,854 --> 00:32:29,382
He was just, like,
"Um, does that--
659
00:32:29,512 --> 00:32:33,342
And what does that mean
to your relationship?"
660
00:32:33,473 --> 00:32:35,562
And I was just like,
"Well, things are going
661
00:32:35,692 --> 00:32:37,303
to stay the same.
662
00:32:37,433 --> 00:32:40,045
We still love each other
663
00:32:40,175 --> 00:32:43,396
with everything we have,
and nothing has changed."
664
00:32:43,526 --> 00:32:45,833
And then he was like,
"Oh, well, I'm really glad
665
00:32:45,964 --> 00:32:47,835
that things are progressing."
666
00:32:47,966 --> 00:32:50,011
And then he was like,
"Is he happy?"
667
00:32:50,142 --> 00:32:52,666
- And he used the pronoun...
- Wow.
668
00:32:52,796 --> 00:32:54,668
- Like straight-up.
- Wow.
669
00:32:54,798 --> 00:32:57,453
- Yeah.
- That's... surprising
670
00:32:57,584 --> 00:32:58,498
and very sweet.
671
00:32:58,628 --> 00:33:00,456
Yeah. Yeah.
672
00:33:00,587 --> 00:33:03,329
And I was like, "Yes.
673
00:33:03,459 --> 00:33:06,071
You know this--
in terms of identity
674
00:33:06,201 --> 00:33:08,029
and-- and self-image
and stuff like that,
675
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:09,988
it's the happiest
I've ever seen him."
676
00:33:10,118 --> 00:33:11,424
Yeah.
677
00:33:11,554 --> 00:33:13,774
And he was just like,
"I'm very happy for you both."
678
00:33:13,904 --> 00:33:15,297
And another thumbs up.
679
00:33:15,428 --> 00:33:18,170
- Wow. That is...
- Yeah.
680
00:33:18,300 --> 00:33:20,737
...like all you can ask for, right?
681
00:33:56,251 --> 00:33:58,253
- Nice to meet you, Alex.
- Nice to meet you.
682
00:33:58,384 --> 00:33:59,428
- S-A-V.
- Oh, that's an awesome name.
683
00:33:59,559 --> 00:34:00,864
- Sav. Brandon.
- Nice to meet you.
684
00:34:00,995 --> 00:34:01,996
I'm the director of
"Chasing Chasing Amy."
685
00:34:02,127 --> 00:34:04,042
I love "Chasing Amy."
686
00:34:04,172 --> 00:34:07,219
I think it's way more sincere
than a lot of his other stuff.
687
00:34:07,349 --> 00:34:09,395
He was on the forefront
of issues
688
00:34:09,525 --> 00:34:11,353
that people are
talking about today.
689
00:34:11,484 --> 00:34:13,442
I think there would be
a little less controversy
690
00:34:13,573 --> 00:34:15,096
about it today if it came out.
691
00:34:15,227 --> 00:34:17,968
But-- but that's probably
just some idealistic
692
00:34:18,099 --> 00:34:19,666
thinking on my part
because I don't really follow
693
00:34:19,796 --> 00:34:21,668
the news that much.
694
00:34:21,798 --> 00:34:23,931
If you can't watch that movie
and find anything about it
695
00:34:24,062 --> 00:34:29,502
that you don't love, something's
really wrong with you.
696
00:34:31,895 --> 00:34:32,896
So-- But...
697
00:34:33,854 --> 00:34:37,118
"Chasing Amy" was, to me,
more of a film
698
00:34:37,249 --> 00:34:41,557
made for straight white men
that was,
699
00:34:41,688 --> 00:34:45,213
you know, kind of introducing
people to queer communities.
700
00:34:45,344 --> 00:34:47,737
"Chasing Amy," when it came out,
was controversial.
701
00:34:47,868 --> 00:34:49,957
And I remember even thinking
to myself as I'm watching it,
702
00:34:50,088 --> 00:34:52,002
I'm like,
"Wonder what my gay friends
703
00:34:52,133 --> 00:34:53,613
are going to think of this."
704
00:34:53,743 --> 00:34:55,528
If you've been marginalized
because of media that says
705
00:34:55,658 --> 00:34:57,834
that lesbians can
all of a sudden not be lesbians
706
00:34:57,965 --> 00:34:59,488
if they find the right man,
707
00:34:59,619 --> 00:35:01,447
I totally get why
this movie would trigger you.
708
00:35:01,577 --> 00:35:03,188
Hi, I'm Kurt Loder
with MTV News.
709
00:35:03,318 --> 00:35:05,146
"Boy meets lesbian"
is the high concept thesis
710
00:35:05,277 --> 00:35:06,887
of a new movie
opening on Friday in Boston,
711
00:35:07,017 --> 00:35:08,584
Los Angeles,
San Francisco, Atlanta,
712
00:35:08,715 --> 00:35:09,716
and a few other cities.
713
00:35:09,846 --> 00:35:11,544
The movie is "Chasing Amy,"
714
00:35:11,674 --> 00:35:13,111
the third film
from director Kevin Smith.
715
00:35:13,241 --> 00:35:15,939
The theme, once again
is post-high school anxiety,
716
00:35:16,070 --> 00:35:17,593
but does the boy
get the lesbian?
717
00:35:17,724 --> 00:35:18,986
And for that matter,
how much of a lesbian
718
00:35:19,117 --> 00:35:20,118
is the lesbian in question?
719
00:35:20,248 --> 00:35:22,294
It's giving certain men
this belief
720
00:35:22,424 --> 00:35:25,123
that you should go
after your lesbian friends
721
00:35:25,253 --> 00:35:26,733
if you're attracted to them, right?
722
00:35:26,863 --> 00:35:29,344
And that, like,
they might reciprocate.
723
00:35:29,475 --> 00:35:33,043
Do you remember
for one fucking second who I am?
724
00:35:33,174 --> 00:35:34,915
So, I mean, you know,
people change.
725
00:35:35,045 --> 00:35:36,873
Oh!
Oh, it's that simple?
726
00:35:37,004 --> 00:35:40,703
"Chasing Amy" is
a very particular queer story.
727
00:35:40,834 --> 00:35:45,404
If queer cinema were a--
were a bus,
728
00:35:45,534 --> 00:35:50,844
"Chasing Amy" would be like,
outside the bus,
729
00:35:50,974 --> 00:35:53,412
but it would be outside the bus
in relatively good company.
730
00:35:53,542 --> 00:35:55,588
There are other movies
from the same time period
731
00:35:55,718 --> 00:36:00,158
and earlier that are
much more sensitive
732
00:36:00,288 --> 00:36:02,551
with their perspectives,
with their language,
733
00:36:02,682 --> 00:36:04,553
but that may not have been
as mainstream.
734
00:36:05,772 --> 00:36:06,947
Can I kiss you?
735
00:36:07,077 --> 00:36:08,427
How come we didn't know
about this before?
736
00:36:08,557 --> 00:36:09,906
I mean, you don't seem gay.
737
00:36:10,037 --> 00:36:11,995
I didn't say I was gay.
I said I was in love.
738
00:36:12,126 --> 00:36:13,823
And so, like, even today,
739
00:36:13,954 --> 00:36:18,915
we fall into the trappings
of mainstream expectations
740
00:36:19,046 --> 00:36:21,135
when it comes to queer media.
741
00:36:21,266 --> 00:36:23,659
Do you understand
why certain LGBTQ people
742
00:36:23,790 --> 00:36:25,705
may not like "Chasing Amy?"
743
00:36:25,835 --> 00:36:27,489
Yeah, of course.
Absolutely.
744
00:36:27,620 --> 00:36:30,753
Believe me, I've had 22 years
to get used to that,
745
00:36:30,884 --> 00:36:33,408
and I got used to that on the
fucking first week it came out.
746
00:36:33,539 --> 00:36:37,934
There were some people, as Gwen
predicted, that were upset.
747
00:36:38,065 --> 00:36:39,371
The backlash to be expected,
of course,
748
00:36:39,501 --> 00:36:41,808
is from the lesbian community,
and not really unfairly.
749
00:36:41,938 --> 00:36:44,376
Like here you are,
you're a white straight male.
750
00:36:44,506 --> 00:36:47,292
What are you doing writing
a movie about gay people
751
00:36:47,422 --> 00:36:49,250
or especially
a lesbian character?
752
00:36:49,381 --> 00:36:51,948
But Gwen also said,
"I was always surprised
753
00:36:52,079 --> 00:36:54,516
that more people
didn't come after you."
754
00:36:54,647 --> 00:36:58,694
The biggest blowback--
and God's truth-- that I heard,
755
00:36:58,825 --> 00:37:02,829
felt, and was told about was
when they told me that Ellen
756
00:37:02,959 --> 00:37:05,658
and Anne Heche went to see
"Chasing Amy,"
757
00:37:05,788 --> 00:37:07,399
and it was reported
that they walked out
758
00:37:07,529 --> 00:37:08,748
in the first half hour.
759
00:37:08,878 --> 00:37:11,707
And us being like,
"Man, like--
760
00:37:11,838 --> 00:37:13,535
well, that's the most famous
lesbian in the world.
761
00:37:13,666 --> 00:37:15,407
We just lost her.
762
00:37:15,537 --> 00:37:16,973
That means we're never
getting on 'The Ellen Show.'"
763
00:37:17,104 --> 00:37:20,803
Kevin Smith can't know
what it's like to be
764
00:37:20,934 --> 00:37:24,067
a queer person
or a trans person.
765
00:37:24,198 --> 00:37:25,373
Now that we know that
we're attracted to each other,
766
00:37:25,504 --> 00:37:26,896
what do we do?
767
00:37:27,027 --> 00:37:28,594
But he can know
what it's like to know them
768
00:37:28,724 --> 00:37:30,639
and to have them in his life,
769
00:37:30,770 --> 00:37:32,511
and that's the story
he's telling.
770
00:37:32,641 --> 00:37:34,861
A big complaint seems
to be about Banky,
771
00:37:34,991 --> 00:37:37,864
who'll, like, use
pretty harsh terminology
772
00:37:37,994 --> 00:37:40,432
and throw around the "F" word
and stuff like that.
773
00:37:40,562 --> 00:37:42,434
Well, yeah.
Banky's not "the villain,"
774
00:37:42,564 --> 00:37:45,915
but Banky is meant to be
the idiot in the story.
775
00:37:46,046 --> 00:37:49,441
What'd I tell you?
She just needs the right guy.
776
00:37:49,571 --> 00:37:52,313
All every woman really wants,
be it mother, senator, nun,
777
00:37:52,444 --> 00:37:54,228
is some serious
deep dicking.
778
00:37:54,359 --> 00:37:58,145
Jason Lee's
character Banky is "the way in"
779
00:37:58,276 --> 00:38:00,234
for straight guys
watching this movie.
780
00:38:03,368 --> 00:38:05,326
I remember telling Kevin
that I was nervous
781
00:38:05,457 --> 00:38:07,415
about some of Banky's dialog.
782
00:38:10,113 --> 00:38:12,333
"You know, Kevin, there's just
a lot of offensive things
783
00:38:12,464 --> 00:38:14,640
that Banky is saying,
and I don't want to be hated.
784
00:38:14,770 --> 00:38:16,642
Like I don't want people
to think Banky
785
00:38:16,772 --> 00:38:18,905
is just some ignorant prick."
786
00:38:19,035 --> 00:38:21,690
What does it matter
if I refer to her as a dyke?
787
00:38:21,821 --> 00:38:23,736
Banky is just flat out gay.
He was just repressed.
788
00:38:23,866 --> 00:38:25,738
That's why he was so angry
and projecting and shit.
789
00:38:25,868 --> 00:38:28,262
But I would like to state,
for the record,
790
00:38:28,393 --> 00:38:29,785
did create all these characters
791
00:38:29,916 --> 00:38:31,700
or rather steal them
from real life people.
792
00:38:31,831 --> 00:38:35,269
So if anybody gets to say what
happens to him, I think it's me.
793
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:36,705
It isn't a healthy thing
794
00:38:36,836 --> 00:38:39,578
to say that your homophobia
is excused
795
00:38:39,708 --> 00:38:41,057
because you are gay
and you're closeted
796
00:38:41,188 --> 00:38:42,711
and you're trying
to deal with that,
797
00:38:42,842 --> 00:38:45,018
especially if you're hurting
other queer people.
798
00:38:45,148 --> 00:38:46,628
You don't just get
a pass for that.
799
00:38:46,759 --> 00:38:48,674
When you say that all
homophobes are secretly gay,
800
00:38:48,804 --> 00:38:51,546
what you're doing is blaming
gay people for homophobia.
801
00:38:51,677 --> 00:38:54,462
Exactly. And not just,
you know, bigots.
802
00:38:54,593 --> 00:38:55,420
Right.
803
00:38:56,551 --> 00:38:59,946
As time moves on, we look at
these films that have been made
804
00:39:00,076 --> 00:39:03,036
and we start to read them
a little differently.
805
00:39:03,166 --> 00:39:06,300
There's so much that you
would not get away with today
806
00:39:06,431 --> 00:39:08,215
that they got away
with just fine.
807
00:39:08,346 --> 00:39:09,782
And nobody even
questioned it.
808
00:39:09,912 --> 00:39:11,697
Like that there would be
a homophobic character
809
00:39:11,827 --> 00:39:14,569
that uses the word "faggot"
over and over and over again.
810
00:39:14,700 --> 00:39:16,745
I think now we would judge
that director
811
00:39:16,876 --> 00:39:19,531
and that would be
very problematic.
812
00:39:19,661 --> 00:39:21,750
Back in the day, he was just
accurately portraying
813
00:39:21,881 --> 00:39:24,100
how a guy like that
would actually talk.
814
00:39:24,231 --> 00:39:25,798
What if she's
carrying a disease?
815
00:39:25,928 --> 00:39:29,236
And you could just bring
to life flawed characters.
816
00:39:29,367 --> 00:39:32,631
It's very much a film of
its time,
817
00:39:32,761 --> 00:39:36,112
but it's still coming out
of that era
818
00:39:36,243 --> 00:39:38,724
where people don't know
as much about,
819
00:39:38,854 --> 00:39:40,900
like, the LGBTQ community.
820
00:39:41,030 --> 00:39:43,468
A House panel
says no to gay marriages.
821
00:39:43,598 --> 00:39:45,731
Yesterday, the Judiciary
Committee approved a bill
822
00:39:45,861 --> 00:39:49,125
that would keep same sex unions
invalid under federal law,
823
00:39:49,256 --> 00:39:51,084
even if a state
makes them legal.
824
00:39:51,214 --> 00:39:54,043
What is it about gay men that
terrifies the rest of the world?
825
00:39:54,174 --> 00:39:56,219
The Hooper X character
in the film
826
00:39:56,350 --> 00:39:58,874
is really sort of
the moral compass.
827
00:39:59,005 --> 00:40:01,050
There has always been
a hard thing when it comes
828
00:40:01,181 --> 00:40:03,488
to, like, any sort of like,
doubly marginalized community,
829
00:40:03,618 --> 00:40:05,751
of how do we tackle
both things at once?
830
00:40:05,881 --> 00:40:07,361
There's an element of what--
you know,
831
00:40:07,492 --> 00:40:09,232
what's called twoness
going on there.
832
00:40:09,363 --> 00:40:13,323
And twoness is being black
and being an American.
833
00:40:13,454 --> 00:40:16,631
And but twoness can also
be black and being gay.
834
00:40:16,762 --> 00:40:20,113
It's pretty easy
for Holden and Banky
835
00:40:20,243 --> 00:40:24,422
to write a comic book about
a bunch of stoners superheroes.
836
00:40:25,074 --> 00:40:26,467
There's not a lot of risk there.
837
00:40:26,598 --> 00:40:27,816
I got to deal with being
a minority
838
00:40:27,947 --> 00:40:29,252
in the minority
of the minority,
839
00:40:29,383 --> 00:40:30,863
and nobody's supporting
my ass.
840
00:40:30,993 --> 00:40:32,604
That character could be
the whole subject
841
00:40:32,734 --> 00:40:34,910
of a whole film of itself.
842
00:40:35,041 --> 00:40:37,347
One of my first notes that I was
taking while I was watching
843
00:40:37,478 --> 00:40:39,741
was Ben Affleck's
goatee was a bad idea.
844
00:40:39,872 --> 00:40:45,573
And... Well, that's
that's the first note,
845
00:40:45,704 --> 00:40:47,749
so I guess that tells you
all you need to know.
846
00:40:51,449 --> 00:40:52,450
You know, when I was
growing up, I was, like,
847
00:40:52,580 --> 00:40:53,494
"Holden, what a cool guy."
848
00:40:53,625 --> 00:40:55,148
And then I like, grew up
and I was like,
849
00:40:55,278 --> 00:40:56,454
"No, Banky was such a babe
in that movie."
850
00:40:56,584 --> 00:40:58,194
He was, like, the cool guy.
851
00:40:58,325 --> 00:40:59,848
Holden's, like, fucking wearing,
like, this loose flannel
852
00:40:59,979 --> 00:41:02,460
and these jeans that don't fit
him right, and the goatee.
853
00:41:02,590 --> 00:41:04,549
No wonder
he attracted a lesbian.
854
00:41:07,987 --> 00:41:10,250
That's going into the movie.
855
00:41:10,380 --> 00:41:12,295
Naturally, I gravitate
toward the Holden character.
856
00:41:12,426 --> 00:41:13,645
That is the closest character
857
00:41:13,775 --> 00:41:15,255
that I've ever written
to myself.
858
00:41:15,385 --> 00:41:18,171
This girl loves me,
my friend--
859
00:41:18,301 --> 00:41:20,739
loves me,
you know what I'm saying?
860
00:41:20,869 --> 00:41:23,829
It's a film that centers
Holden McNeil,
861
00:41:23,959 --> 00:41:25,744
who is a straight white man,
862
00:41:25,874 --> 00:41:28,964
and so his lens
really shapes the storyline.
863
00:41:29,095 --> 00:41:31,619
And while there are
sort of diverse perspectives,
864
00:41:31,750 --> 00:41:34,666
it's still very much
Holden's lens.
865
00:41:34,796 --> 00:41:36,798
There's always this assumption
that all we need
866
00:41:36,929 --> 00:41:40,280
is to meet this right man,
and then we will change
867
00:41:40,410 --> 00:41:41,716
everything about ourselves
to be with him
868
00:41:41,847 --> 00:41:43,326
because it's a standard,
it's tradition,
869
00:41:43,457 --> 00:41:44,719
it's just the way
that things are.
870
00:41:44,850 --> 00:41:45,764
Why girls?
871
00:41:47,679 --> 00:41:49,115
Why men?
872
00:41:49,245 --> 00:41:50,551
Well, because that's
the standard.
873
00:41:50,682 --> 00:41:52,074
And so I think we've been
faced with that
874
00:41:52,205 --> 00:41:53,859
for most of our lives,
and so a lot of lesbians,
875
00:41:53,989 --> 00:41:58,298
I think, innately just--
they detest that,
876
00:41:58,428 --> 00:41:59,691
and I understand why.
877
00:41:59,821 --> 00:42:01,257
There's this scene
in the movie
878
00:42:01,388 --> 00:42:05,087
where Holden chases after Alyssa
in the rain
879
00:42:05,218 --> 00:42:09,831
and she like, lets him have it.
She's just like, "Screw you."
880
00:42:09,962 --> 00:42:11,441
That was so unfair!
881
00:42:11,572 --> 00:42:12,617
"I'm lesbian.
882
00:42:12,747 --> 00:42:14,096
You're an idiot.
883
00:42:14,227 --> 00:42:15,228
How dare you?
884
00:42:15,358 --> 00:42:16,838
I'm going to hitch
a ride back home."
885
00:42:16,969 --> 00:42:20,233
And I was like,
"Yes, like, that's so good."
886
00:42:20,363 --> 00:42:24,237
And then he, like, mopes back
to his car, and I'm like,
887
00:42:24,367 --> 00:42:25,847
"Get out of there, Ben Affleck."
888
00:42:25,978 --> 00:42:28,154
And then she runs back
to him and kisses him.
889
00:42:28,284 --> 00:42:29,416
And I was like, "No!"
890
00:42:30,635 --> 00:42:32,593
I was watching
Ben Affleck's speech
891
00:42:32,724 --> 00:42:35,553
and I was thinking like,
"Holy crap,
892
00:42:35,683 --> 00:42:38,860
this is actually,
literally the speech
893
00:42:38,991 --> 00:42:43,125
that anyone, gay or straight,
would want to hear."
894
00:42:43,256 --> 00:42:44,823
I love you.
895
00:42:44,953 --> 00:42:47,086
Very, very simple.
896
00:42:47,216 --> 00:42:50,132
Where I, like, related
to "Chasing Amy"
897
00:42:50,263 --> 00:42:54,223
coming into it was that Kevin
is such a romantic
898
00:42:54,354 --> 00:42:56,835
in the way that he describes
his feelings of love.
899
00:42:56,965 --> 00:42:59,533
You are the-- the epitome
of everything I have ever
900
00:42:59,664 --> 00:43:01,143
looked for
in another human being.
901
00:43:01,274 --> 00:43:03,189
That's how I feel
about my fiance.
902
00:43:08,934 --> 00:43:10,326
So this is what
I'm sending.
903
00:43:10,457 --> 00:43:12,111
"I'm taking my fiancée
on a date to some diner
904
00:43:12,241 --> 00:43:14,635
you shot in 20 years ago."
905
00:43:17,464 --> 00:43:19,553
And this is where
Ben Affleck sat.
906
00:43:19,684 --> 00:43:21,599
My butt has been where
Ben Affleck's butt has been.
907
00:43:24,166 --> 00:43:27,909
Basically Ben Affleck.
Little shorter.
908
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:29,519
This movie made me
be honest with myself,
909
00:43:31,696 --> 00:43:34,524
"Chasing Amy"
and "Chasing Chasing Amy."
910
00:43:34,655 --> 00:43:36,004
You did it too late.
911
00:43:36,135 --> 00:43:37,527
You tried to cheat.
I won.
912
00:43:39,007 --> 00:43:40,139
This is the worst.
913
00:43:41,706 --> 00:43:44,665
You brought me
all the way to New Jersey.
914
00:43:44,796 --> 00:43:46,580
The last time I was here,
I was not very honest
915
00:43:46,711 --> 00:43:50,105
with myself about who I was,
and now I'm back here
916
00:43:50,236 --> 00:43:55,067
and engaged, more out.
917
00:43:56,372 --> 00:43:59,158
It's a pretty good situation
to be in.
918
00:43:59,288 --> 00:44:03,945
And now, I guess the weight
of this place isn't as heavy.
919
00:44:04,076 --> 00:44:05,947
It's just a place,
920
00:44:06,078 --> 00:44:09,603
and I'm not nearly as nervous as
I was just to exist in the world
921
00:44:09,734 --> 00:44:13,694
or shoot in New Jersey.
It's kind of nice.
922
00:44:13,825 --> 00:44:16,262
It's the "Chasing Amy"
memorial table.
923
00:44:18,612 --> 00:44:20,745
Where homosexuals
go to die.
924
00:44:20,875 --> 00:44:23,661
Well, you're the only homo
at this table.
925
00:44:23,791 --> 00:44:24,705
I'm half.
926
00:44:24,836 --> 00:44:26,489
I hope that went
on the record.
927
00:44:26,620 --> 00:44:27,926
That I'm half gay?
928
00:44:28,056 --> 00:44:28,927
Because-- Yeah,
Because you're half gay.
929
00:44:35,934 --> 00:44:39,198
The character of
Alyssa Jones is Joey Adams.
930
00:44:39,328 --> 00:44:42,941
It's written for Joey about Joey
based on things Joey said.
931
00:44:43,071 --> 00:44:45,595
The bigger difference,
of course, is Alyssa is--
932
00:44:45,726 --> 00:44:47,902
you know, she's identifies
as a lesbian,
933
00:44:48,033 --> 00:44:49,948
at least in the beginning
of the movie.
934
00:44:54,561 --> 00:44:57,129
I think Alyssa Jones,
as a character,
935
00:44:57,259 --> 00:45:00,654
was an incredible role
for a woman at that time.
936
00:45:00,785 --> 00:45:03,831
There really weren't
tons of roles for women
937
00:45:03,962 --> 00:45:08,444
that had robust,
intelligent dialogue and banter
938
00:45:08,575 --> 00:45:11,534
and the ability
to be more than one dimensional.
939
00:45:11,665 --> 00:45:13,362
I think Kevin writes well
for women
940
00:45:13,493 --> 00:45:15,756
because Kevin's very in touch
with his feminine side.
941
00:45:15,887 --> 00:45:17,976
He's very much the female
in our relationship,
942
00:45:18,106 --> 00:45:20,239
and I'm more the male.
He's very romantic.
943
00:45:20,369 --> 00:45:22,023
He's very sentimental.
944
00:45:22,154 --> 00:45:25,374
This character that
Kevin Smith created of Alyssa
945
00:45:25,505 --> 00:45:27,159
is sort of, like, maybe a leap
946
00:45:27,289 --> 00:45:29,422
and a bound
above the rest of the film
947
00:45:29,552 --> 00:45:33,513
and past the time period in
which that this movie came out.
948
00:45:33,643 --> 00:45:36,211
She's cool. She, like,
gets on the mic at a dyke night,
949
00:45:36,342 --> 00:45:38,997
you know, and makes out
with her girlfriend in public.
950
00:45:39,127 --> 00:45:44,176
There are things in this movie
that are so ill-advised.
951
00:45:44,306 --> 00:45:46,874
Like, they're on the swings,
and he says like...
952
00:45:47,005 --> 00:45:48,789
"Well, where's the penetration
in lesbian sex?"
953
00:45:50,748 --> 00:45:51,661
The finger?
954
00:45:51,792 --> 00:45:53,141
She goes...
955
00:45:53,272 --> 00:45:54,752
Observe.
956
00:45:58,930 --> 00:46:01,062
I don't know if anyone
in this room
957
00:46:01,193 --> 00:46:03,151
has ever fisted someone,
958
00:46:03,282 --> 00:46:06,764
but you for sure
don't do it like that.
959
00:46:08,461 --> 00:46:10,985
Alyssa Jones
as a queer character
960
00:46:11,116 --> 00:46:16,034
still comes in a very appetizing
to the male gaze package.
961
00:46:16,164 --> 00:46:20,778
She's blonde, she's thin,
she's sexually available.
962
00:46:20,908 --> 00:46:23,302
She has a promiscuous past.
963
00:46:23,432 --> 00:46:25,130
I thought you would be
into this.
964
00:46:25,260 --> 00:46:26,174
You did?
965
00:46:27,523 --> 00:46:29,047
What does that say about me?
966
00:46:30,744 --> 00:46:32,093
You've done stuff
like this before.
967
00:46:32,224 --> 00:46:34,052
I mean, this should be
no big deal for you.
968
00:46:34,182 --> 00:46:36,619
Any aspect of that movie
that might have seemed
969
00:46:36,750 --> 00:46:40,101
ahead of its time
when we made it has long since,
970
00:46:40,232 --> 00:46:42,843
like-- history has caught up
and then gone past it
971
00:46:42,974 --> 00:46:45,498
to the point
where people do look at it
972
00:46:45,628 --> 00:46:47,239
as "problematic"
or something like that.
973
00:46:47,369 --> 00:46:50,590
This movie is, like,
so accidentally good
974
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:52,635
at talking about biphobia.
975
00:46:52,766 --> 00:46:56,161
There are so many things that
the character Alyssa will say
976
00:46:56,291 --> 00:46:59,251
that I have thought about
or seen in my queer experiences
977
00:46:59,381 --> 00:47:01,079
with other queer women,
978
00:47:01,209 --> 00:47:04,082
and I just felt like
how interesting it was
979
00:47:04,212 --> 00:47:06,736
that Kevin Smith ended up
making this movie
980
00:47:06,867 --> 00:47:09,522
when the intent
is clearly not there.
981
00:47:09,652 --> 00:47:11,437
It really infuriates me
on this film
982
00:47:11,567 --> 00:47:14,309
when we hear feedback about how
it's some guy's sexual fantasy,
983
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,095
and he's portraying women
and lesbians in a bad way,
984
00:47:17,225 --> 00:47:18,618
because he really does--
985
00:47:18,748 --> 00:47:20,576
he has such an honest respect
for women,
986
00:47:20,707 --> 00:47:22,404
and he really understands them.
987
00:47:22,535 --> 00:47:24,189
And I think it's obvious
in most of his scripts.
988
00:47:24,319 --> 00:47:26,844
The way that Alyssa
as a character,
989
00:47:26,974 --> 00:47:30,978
defines her experience
is really beautiful.
990
00:47:31,109 --> 00:47:33,676
She offers language
for things that people
991
00:47:33,807 --> 00:47:35,635
have not been able
to say before.
992
00:47:35,765 --> 00:47:39,726
I like that Alyssa is never
actually questioning
993
00:47:39,857 --> 00:47:41,641
her own sexuality.
994
00:47:41,771 --> 00:47:44,165
Everyone else is doing it
for her, but she's good.
995
00:47:44,296 --> 00:47:45,514
She knows what's up.
996
00:47:45,645 --> 00:47:47,821
One of my favorite parts
of the film
997
00:47:47,952 --> 00:47:49,823
is when they're lying
in each other's arms,
998
00:47:49,954 --> 00:47:52,913
Holden and Alyssa,
and he says
999
00:47:53,044 --> 00:47:54,741
something that's like,
very male, right?
1000
00:47:54,872 --> 00:47:56,743
Like, "Why me?
Why am I so special?"
1001
00:47:56,874 --> 00:47:59,354
And she has this beautiful,
like, sweet,
1002
00:47:59,485 --> 00:48:00,878
short monologue about...
1003
00:48:01,008 --> 00:48:02,880
I came to this
on my own terms.
1004
00:48:03,010 --> 00:48:05,056
Which is why
it makes it okay.
1005
00:48:05,186 --> 00:48:09,887
I'm not with you because
of what family, society, life
1006
00:48:10,017 --> 00:48:12,150
tried to instill in me
from day one.
1007
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,369
She didn't fall into
a heterosexual relationship
1008
00:48:14,500 --> 00:48:17,242
because it was what was expected
of her or what the norm was,
1009
00:48:17,372 --> 00:48:19,374
what the assumption was.
She chose it.
1010
00:48:19,505 --> 00:48:21,899
So being able to see somebody
own their experience
1011
00:48:22,029 --> 00:48:24,249
in that way is really beautiful.
1012
00:48:24,379 --> 00:48:27,382
I think it taught me the
importance of, like-- at least
1013
00:48:27,513 --> 00:48:31,169
in that time of labeling myself
as bi, not allowing anyone
1014
00:48:31,299 --> 00:48:33,258
to tell me
that I wasn't queer enough.
1015
00:48:33,388 --> 00:48:35,347
The one scene that gives us,
I think, the most insight
1016
00:48:35,477 --> 00:48:37,827
about her
is the scene with her friends,
1017
00:48:37,958 --> 00:48:41,179
because you get to see
kind of her friends react
1018
00:48:41,309 --> 00:48:42,745
to her sexual fluidity.
1019
00:48:42,876 --> 00:48:45,052
She's like,
"Yeah, I'm with this guy now."
1020
00:48:45,183 --> 00:48:48,142
And they're like...
Another one bites the dust.
1021
00:48:51,885 --> 00:48:55,062
It's, like, in that moment,
it's not as if, like,
1022
00:48:55,193 --> 00:48:56,934
"Oh, she's just a different
kind of queer person."
1023
00:48:57,064 --> 00:48:59,806
It's as if her queerness
is now erased.
1024
00:48:59,937 --> 00:49:04,115
She is just a person trying to
find love, find companionship,
1025
00:49:04,245 --> 00:49:07,118
find someone who will be her
equal in so many things,
1026
00:49:07,248 --> 00:49:08,728
and I think that's touching.
1027
00:49:08,858 --> 00:49:11,165
To immediately halve
your options
1028
00:49:11,296 --> 00:49:13,646
by eliminating
the possibility of finding
1029
00:49:13,776 --> 00:49:15,691
that one person
within your own gender--
1030
00:49:17,215 --> 00:49:19,130
that just seems stupid to me.
1031
00:49:19,260 --> 00:49:21,132
It's hard to pinpoint
bisexuality
1032
00:49:21,262 --> 00:49:23,873
as a media representation
because it really operates
1033
00:49:24,004 --> 00:49:26,093
between two polar extremes.
1034
00:49:26,224 --> 00:49:27,660
There's the invisibility
1035
00:49:27,790 --> 00:49:29,314
and then there's
the hyper visibility.
1036
00:49:29,444 --> 00:49:31,229
So the invisibility refers
to the fact
1037
00:49:31,359 --> 00:49:33,796
that bisexual stories
haven't been told for very long.
1038
00:49:33,927 --> 00:49:35,450
Language is really important.
1039
00:49:35,581 --> 00:49:38,845
Being able to have a way
to talk about something
1040
00:49:38,976 --> 00:49:40,542
gives us the ability
to be that.
1041
00:49:40,673 --> 00:49:43,328
So if you don't have something
to call yourself,
1042
00:49:43,458 --> 00:49:45,852
how do you explain it to the
people who are important to you?
1043
00:49:45,983 --> 00:49:48,333
I'm not even sure
bisexuality exists.
1044
00:49:48,463 --> 00:49:51,205
I think it's just a layover
on the way to gay town.
1045
00:49:51,336 --> 00:49:53,338
When are you gonna make up your
mind between dick and pussy?
1046
00:49:53,468 --> 00:49:55,340
And spare us
the gory bisexual details.
1047
00:49:55,470 --> 00:49:57,342
Well, I'll see
your fugitive former flame
1048
00:49:57,472 --> 00:49:59,126
and raise you
a lesbian daughter.
1049
00:49:59,257 --> 00:49:59,997
Marissa?
1050
00:50:02,303 --> 00:50:04,610
Well, I'm sure it's just
a phase.
1051
00:50:04,740 --> 00:50:05,872
It was for me.
1052
00:50:07,395 --> 00:50:09,571
The hypervisibility is
all of the stereotypes
1053
00:50:09,702 --> 00:50:12,574
that we attach to bisexuality,
and "Chasing Amy"
1054
00:50:12,705 --> 00:50:14,228
brings up
a lot of those things.
1055
00:50:14,359 --> 00:50:16,274
The idea that bisexuality
is associated
1056
00:50:16,404 --> 00:50:19,233
with promiscuity
or sexual experience.
1057
00:50:19,364 --> 00:50:21,931
People often think of bisexual
people as being confused
1058
00:50:22,062 --> 00:50:24,499
because they aren't being true
to themselves.
1059
00:50:24,630 --> 00:50:26,849
A lot of that confusion
comes from the social scripts
1060
00:50:26,980 --> 00:50:29,374
that are laid in front of us.
It's the cultural context.
1061
00:50:29,504 --> 00:50:31,071
It's not that that person
doesn't understand
1062
00:50:31,202 --> 00:50:32,986
how they individually feel.
1063
00:50:47,914 --> 00:50:48,958
All right, y'all, ready?
1064
00:50:49,089 --> 00:50:52,136
One, two, three.
1065
00:50:52,266 --> 00:50:53,311
The coverage?
1066
00:50:54,138 --> 00:50:56,140
Yeah. One, two, three.
1067
00:51:00,231 --> 00:51:03,060
Take me through the genesis
of you two meeting.
1068
00:51:03,190 --> 00:51:05,323
I've heard Kevin's point
of view on it.
1069
00:51:05,453 --> 00:51:08,804
Well, Kevin has a far
superior memory than I do.
1070
00:51:08,935 --> 00:51:10,371
That's just a very nice way
of saying,
1071
00:51:10,502 --> 00:51:13,070
"Kevin cared more
than I ever did."
1072
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,159
I remember meeting you.
All right, let's hear where.
1073
00:51:15,289 --> 00:51:16,856
It's a boring story
if I just say, like,
1074
00:51:16,986 --> 00:51:19,076
"Yeah, I walked onto set,
and he was there."
1075
00:51:19,206 --> 00:51:22,296
Is that where we met?
That's where I remember.
1076
00:51:22,427 --> 00:51:25,125
See?
I care more than she does.
1077
00:51:25,256 --> 00:51:27,910
We met in an audition
for "Mallrats."
1078
00:51:28,041 --> 00:51:30,522
- Okay, but that's where it--
- You did walk into a room.
1079
00:51:30,652 --> 00:51:32,219
That's where it gets
a little hazy for me.
1080
00:51:32,350 --> 00:51:34,221
You don't remember this?
Fuck.
1081
00:51:34,352 --> 00:51:35,701
This is why we broke up.
1082
00:51:35,831 --> 00:51:37,616
So did you guys start doing it
while you were
1083
00:51:37,746 --> 00:51:39,879
still in production,
or did you wait till "Mallrats"
1084
00:51:40,009 --> 00:51:41,446
was finished shooting?
1085
00:51:41,576 --> 00:51:43,491
"Bio-dome" was--
I was shooting "Bio-dome."
1086
00:51:43,622 --> 00:51:45,276
You were shooting--
No, I was done with "Bio-dome."
1087
00:51:45,406 --> 00:51:47,495
You were done--
We hated each other.
1088
00:51:47,626 --> 00:51:49,106
When I started dating Joey,
which was after "Mallrats"--
1089
00:51:49,236 --> 00:51:51,456
We met on "Mallrats,"
and we had great chemistry.
1090
00:51:51,586 --> 00:51:54,154
Like, just fooling around.
We'd make fun of each other,
1091
00:51:54,285 --> 00:51:55,982
mock each other, like,
all the time and shit.
1092
00:51:58,115 --> 00:52:00,029
I didn't realize
we were flirting.
1093
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:01,901
That's how I talked
to most girls.
1094
00:52:02,031 --> 00:52:04,817
On "Mallrats," when he first
gave me my line reading,
1095
00:52:04,947 --> 00:52:06,732
he also told me
what to do with my hand
1096
00:52:06,862 --> 00:52:08,342
while I was saying the line,
1097
00:52:08,473 --> 00:52:10,301
and I almost had to leave
the room for a second
1098
00:52:10,431 --> 00:52:11,911
just to sort of--
you know,
1099
00:52:12,041 --> 00:52:15,088
my face turned red
and it's just so enraging.
1100
00:52:15,219 --> 00:52:16,524
But you just learn
to swallow your pride
1101
00:52:16,655 --> 00:52:18,309
and then you see
your performance
1102
00:52:18,439 --> 00:52:20,920
and you see the take
that when you did it your way
1103
00:52:21,050 --> 00:52:23,183
and then the take when you did
it his way and you just go,
1104
00:52:23,314 --> 00:52:25,446
"Oh, he's right."
1105
00:52:25,577 --> 00:52:27,970
She was just cool. Joey was
like, fun to be around.
1106
00:52:28,101 --> 00:52:29,711
Because I think he's funny.
1107
00:52:29,842 --> 00:52:31,191
- That helped.
- I would really laugh hard--
1108
00:52:31,322 --> 00:52:32,627
He could really make me laugh.
1109
00:52:32,758 --> 00:52:33,976
But not-- but it wasn't like--
1110
00:52:34,107 --> 00:52:35,108
you didn't give it away
for free.
1111
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:36,762
You made me earn it and stuff,
1112
00:52:36,892 --> 00:52:38,677
but, like--
they were all top shelf.
1113
00:52:38,807 --> 00:52:39,982
The one time she said, like,
1114
00:52:40,113 --> 00:52:41,419
"You're the funniest person
I know,"
1115
00:52:41,549 --> 00:52:43,290
like, that's--
that's fucking everything.
1116
00:52:43,421 --> 00:52:45,118
It's nice when you do
a dramatic scene.
1117
00:52:45,249 --> 00:52:47,425
They called cut and it was
the greatest thing in the world
1118
00:52:47,555 --> 00:52:50,254
to have my boyfriend
come over and-- and hold me.
1119
00:52:50,384 --> 00:52:53,953
She was literally my muse.
I had a real insecurity
1120
00:52:54,083 --> 00:52:56,695
about, like,
she had a bigger past than me.
1121
00:52:56,825 --> 00:53:01,090
The scene in "Chasing Amy" where
Holden is like, baiting her...
1122
00:53:01,221 --> 00:53:03,354
Do you know a guy
named Rick Derris?
1123
00:53:05,225 --> 00:53:07,793
- Rick Derris?
- Yeah.
1124
00:53:07,923 --> 00:53:09,708
Sure. We used to hang out
in high school.
1125
00:53:09,838 --> 00:53:10,709
That was me.
1126
00:53:10,839 --> 00:53:12,972
I admired Kevin so much
1127
00:53:13,102 --> 00:53:17,237
because he had found
such a strong voice
1128
00:53:17,368 --> 00:53:22,068
and knew who he was without
having to go live in Bali.
1129
00:53:22,199 --> 00:53:24,505
...Alyssa, with you,
because...
1130
00:53:24,636 --> 00:53:26,507
I feel inadequate,
1131
00:53:26,638 --> 00:53:28,205
because you've had
such a big life
1132
00:53:28,335 --> 00:53:31,164
and so much experience,
and my life's been pretty small
1133
00:53:31,295 --> 00:53:32,600
in comparison.
1134
00:53:32,731 --> 00:53:34,167
That doesn't matter to me.
1135
00:53:34,298 --> 00:53:35,560
It did start functioning
as I'd write a scene
1136
00:53:35,690 --> 00:53:36,604
and give it to her.
1137
00:53:36,735 --> 00:53:38,302
We'd talk about it and, like,
1138
00:53:38,432 --> 00:53:42,610
she'd get emotional
because you were like,
1139
00:53:42,741 --> 00:53:45,657
"This is an apology." That scene
in the movie is kind of like,
1140
00:53:45,787 --> 00:53:47,224
"Oh, Holden figured it out,
too."
1141
00:53:47,354 --> 00:53:48,747
And then, of course,
Holden figured it out
1142
00:53:48,877 --> 00:53:52,141
because the guy who writes
for Holden figured it out.
1143
00:53:52,272 --> 00:53:54,492
Looks like a very
personal story.
1144
00:54:00,628 --> 00:54:02,326
I finally had
something personal to say.
1145
00:54:02,456 --> 00:54:04,328
"Chasing Amy"
has touched me in ways
1146
00:54:04,458 --> 00:54:09,985
that I didn't anticipate.
I wanted to feel love so badly
1147
00:54:10,116 --> 00:54:11,378
watching that movie.
1148
00:54:11,509 --> 00:54:13,206
I was like,
"I want some of that."
1149
00:54:13,337 --> 00:54:15,121
It's a roadmap of how to not
fuck up your relationship.
1150
00:54:29,135 --> 00:54:30,658
I think even calling you
"best friend,"
1151
00:54:30,789 --> 00:54:32,530
it didn't cover
what I felt for you.
1152
00:54:32,660 --> 00:54:33,748
ICE RINK
1153
00:54:33,879 --> 00:54:34,793
It was just like,
this is, like, a soulmate.
1154
00:54:34,923 --> 00:54:37,491
We were bonded on,
like, some next level.
1155
00:54:37,622 --> 00:54:40,581
I could talk to you
about anything,
1156
00:54:40,712 --> 00:54:43,584
and you just kept me going.
And, you know,
1157
00:54:43,715 --> 00:54:46,457
I think I did that for you, too.
1158
00:54:46,587 --> 00:54:49,895
You were so supportive at a time
when I was...
1159
00:54:50,025 --> 00:54:51,636
so alone in the world.
1160
00:54:51,766 --> 00:54:53,899
I mean, it was dark times
for both of us.
1161
00:54:54,029 --> 00:54:56,641
Every night you would just have,
like, these dark thoughts.
1162
00:54:56,771 --> 00:54:59,557
You would just talk about how,
you know, you hated--
1163
00:54:59,687 --> 00:55:02,995
you hated school
and, like, you hated your life.
1164
00:55:03,125 --> 00:55:05,650
The main thing was that
you just felt, like,
1165
00:55:05,780 --> 00:55:08,043
so alone in the world.
1166
00:55:08,174 --> 00:55:10,263
And I just remember being, like,
so adamant.
1167
00:55:10,394 --> 00:55:12,787
You have me, You have me,
You have me.
1168
00:55:12,918 --> 00:55:14,920
Maybe it's not enough,
but it's something.
1169
00:55:17,183 --> 00:55:20,534
I could just be this tiny,
tiny thing
1170
00:55:20,665 --> 00:55:23,407
that maybe was worth it--
you know, staying alive.
1171
00:55:25,060 --> 00:55:27,324
I feel a lot of shame
about that period.
1172
00:55:29,848 --> 00:55:31,458
- You shouldn't.
- I do.
1173
00:55:31,589 --> 00:55:33,678
I feel so much shame
because I put a lot on you.
1174
00:55:36,550 --> 00:55:38,335
But it's not about
putting things on me.
1175
00:55:38,465 --> 00:55:40,685
We were--
even before we were dating,
1176
00:55:40,815 --> 00:55:42,600
we've always been a team.
1177
00:55:47,735 --> 00:55:49,302
Can we cut?
1178
00:56:00,531 --> 00:56:01,619
We about ready?
1179
00:56:03,621 --> 00:56:04,926
Everybody speeding?
1180
00:56:05,492 --> 00:56:07,146
"Chasing Amy," well received.
1181
00:56:07,276 --> 00:56:09,627
Gets great fucking reviews
up there.
1182
00:56:09,757 --> 00:56:11,106
It did as it was intended.
1183
00:56:13,979 --> 00:56:15,850
Popped Joey in a big, bad way.
1184
00:56:15,981 --> 00:56:17,678
She was getting press
like crazy.
1185
00:56:21,682 --> 00:56:23,292
- But it was--
- Well, I'm a fan of this one.
1186
00:56:23,423 --> 00:56:25,425
Sounds like--
1187
00:56:25,556 --> 00:56:27,906
Her and I would do press
together as well,
1188
00:56:28,036 --> 00:56:29,777
which was kind of fun.
1189
00:56:29,908 --> 00:56:34,956
And our relationship started
kind of faltering and stuff.
1190
00:56:35,087 --> 00:56:36,915
Movie came out in April of '97.
1191
00:56:37,045 --> 00:56:42,094
We were broken up by July of '97
and the relationship was over.
1192
00:56:43,225 --> 00:56:44,879
You came on the show
when "Chasing Amy" came out
1193
00:56:45,010 --> 00:56:46,881
and we were rooting
for you then,
1194
00:56:47,012 --> 00:56:49,710
and this is very exciting
and you deserve this.
1195
00:56:49,841 --> 00:56:52,452
The Golden Globes ceremony
is going to be on January 18th,
1196
00:56:52,583 --> 00:56:54,019
so we'll cross
our fingers for you.
1197
00:56:54,149 --> 00:56:55,455
Thanks so much for coming.
1198
00:56:55,586 --> 00:56:58,110
It's very easy to romanticize
the end of the relationship
1199
00:56:58,240 --> 00:56:59,981
and be like,
"Our relationship was sacrificed
1200
00:57:00,112 --> 00:57:01,809
on the altar of 'Chasing Amy.'"
1201
00:57:01,940 --> 00:57:04,943
Like that's where
our relationship went.
1202
00:57:05,073 --> 00:57:06,423
Like, "I'm not saying
if there was no movie,
1203
00:57:06,553 --> 00:57:08,120
we'd still be
fucking together today."
1204
00:57:08,250 --> 00:57:11,819
Just putting everything out
there probably brought it
1205
00:57:11,950 --> 00:57:15,170
to an end a lot sooner than it
maybe might have naturally gone.
1206
00:57:15,301 --> 00:57:17,477
I never have a single regret
about it.
1207
00:57:17,608 --> 00:57:19,174
There's no way I would be
in a marriage
1208
00:57:19,305 --> 00:57:22,961
that has lasted 20 years
if I didn't meet Joey
1209
00:57:23,091 --> 00:57:24,876
and she didn't shape me.
1210
00:57:25,006 --> 00:57:28,227
When you watch "Chasing Amy,"
the tail end of the movie,
1211
00:57:28,357 --> 00:57:30,708
and you get this feeling like
he might figure it out one day.
1212
00:57:30,838 --> 00:57:34,712
And the scene in "Reboot"
allows you proof that,
1213
00:57:34,842 --> 00:57:36,670
like, he worked it out.
1214
00:57:36,801 --> 00:57:37,715
Alyssa and I aren't married.
1215
00:57:37,845 --> 00:57:39,717
Married people
don't like each other.
1216
00:57:39,847 --> 00:57:41,501
We're co-parents.
1217
00:57:41,632 --> 00:57:43,242
Wait a sec.
You have a kid?
1218
00:57:43,372 --> 00:57:45,331
Yeah. Alyssa and her partner
wanted to have a baby,
1219
00:57:45,462 --> 00:57:47,855
and since we've known each
other, and more importantly,
1220
00:57:47,986 --> 00:57:50,292
liked each other for 20 years,
they asked me to be the father.
1221
00:57:50,423 --> 00:57:52,381
In making that
little "Chasing Amy" sequel
1222
00:57:52,512 --> 00:57:54,035
in the middle of "Reboot,"
1223
00:57:54,166 --> 00:57:57,691
I kind of got to go
and address the criticism.
1224
00:57:57,822 --> 00:57:59,563
It's always a story
that should have been told
1225
00:57:59,693 --> 00:58:03,218
from a queer perspective
or a woman's perspective
1226
00:58:03,349 --> 00:58:06,134
or any perspective
other than cis white male's.
1227
00:58:06,265 --> 00:58:12,445
What was really beautiful to me
was catching up with Kevin
1228
00:58:12,576 --> 00:58:16,362
and hearing him talk about
where he was in his life
1229
00:58:16,493 --> 00:58:18,407
and where the scene came from
for him.
1230
00:58:18,538 --> 00:58:19,757
In the first draft
of the scene,
1231
00:58:19,887 --> 00:58:23,108
Holden and Alyssa had sex
to have the baby.
1232
00:58:23,238 --> 00:58:25,850
And so Joey was like, "Kevin,
you can't do that."
1233
00:58:25,980 --> 00:58:29,593
Like, I just had a remarkable
conversation with you
1234
00:58:29,723 --> 00:58:31,333
about how much
the movie meant to you,
1235
00:58:31,464 --> 00:58:33,161
but I almost didn't.
I almost just wrote back like,
1236
00:58:33,292 --> 00:58:35,120
"Oh, it's great. I love it.
Can't wait to shoot it.'
1237
00:58:35,250 --> 00:58:37,426
How wonderful that somebody
who is such a fan of the movie
1238
00:58:37,557 --> 00:58:39,385
affected what
the storytelling would be.
1239
00:58:39,516 --> 00:58:41,039
That's crazy.
1240
00:58:41,169 --> 00:58:44,695
"Chasing Amy" has always, like,
in a weird way, been part of--
1241
00:58:44,825 --> 00:58:47,088
it's different in that way--
that Kevin and I were dating,
1242
00:58:47,219 --> 00:58:48,394
and he wrote it
when we were dating,
1243
00:58:48,525 --> 00:58:51,136
and it's about part
of our growth.
1244
00:58:51,266 --> 00:58:53,007
I walked out of
that relationship fixed,
1245
00:58:53,138 --> 00:58:55,227
and nobody really can say that
1246
00:58:55,357 --> 00:58:56,837
at the end
of a relationship.
1247
00:58:56,968 --> 00:58:58,578
It wasn't like we ended
like, "See you later, pal."
1248
00:58:58,709 --> 00:59:00,145
Like, you know,
it was kind of shitty.
1249
00:59:00,275 --> 00:59:01,886
Apparently, I wrote
a passive aggressive letter
1250
00:59:02,016 --> 00:59:03,322
and just left Toronto.
And left a broom.
1251
00:59:03,452 --> 00:59:04,758
And left a broom.
Well, she said she needed
1252
00:59:04,889 --> 00:59:06,281
a broom,
and it was such a fuck-you move
1253
00:59:06,412 --> 00:59:08,196
because she had told me,
like, at one point, she's like,
1254
00:59:08,327 --> 00:59:09,763
"I need a broom
for this place."
1255
00:59:09,894 --> 00:59:11,330
So I wrote this, like, Dear John
breakup letter and shit,
1256
00:59:11,460 --> 00:59:13,158
and I went out of my way
to buy her a broom
1257
00:59:13,288 --> 00:59:14,594
and left it with a note
and it's like,
1258
00:59:14,725 --> 00:59:17,292
"P.S., They say
it sweeps clean."
1259
00:59:19,599 --> 00:59:21,470
Oh, I was such an asshole.
But in any event,
1260
00:59:21,601 --> 00:59:25,474
it was-- like, I became
the person that I became
1261
00:59:25,605 --> 00:59:27,085
for the rest of my life
because of that relationship.
1262
00:59:27,215 --> 00:59:30,436
I never went back
to being the other guy.
1263
00:59:30,567 --> 00:59:34,832
Please know that I am
forever changed
1264
00:59:34,962 --> 00:59:38,705
because of who you are
and what you've meant to me.
1265
00:59:38,836 --> 00:59:40,489
Anyway.
1266
00:59:40,620 --> 00:59:42,883
That's all I got.
Thank you both for this.
1267
00:59:43,014 --> 00:59:44,189
- This is amazing.
- Thank you.
1268
00:59:44,319 --> 00:59:46,495
This is a dream
fucking come true.
1269
00:59:46,626 --> 00:59:49,150
Excellent job.
I'll see you tomorrow.
1270
00:59:49,281 --> 00:59:50,848
All right.
Well done, kids.
1271
00:59:50,978 --> 00:59:52,197
What are you doing tomorrow?
The one-on-one interview?
1272
00:59:52,327 --> 00:59:54,547
- Yeah. Yeah.
- All right.
1273
00:59:54,678 --> 00:59:56,288
Finally.
So great to meet you.
1274
00:59:56,418 --> 00:59:58,029
Guys, thank you so much
for everything.
1275
00:59:58,159 --> 01:00:01,075
Excellent job.
Look at you, making a movie.
1276
01:00:01,206 --> 01:00:03,077
I know how documentaries work,
1277
01:00:03,208 --> 01:00:04,383
and they always do this thing
1278
01:00:04,513 --> 01:00:05,776
where while the camera
is rolling,
1279
01:00:05,906 --> 01:00:07,778
before you're actually asked
a question,
1280
01:00:07,908 --> 01:00:10,955
they just, like,
do this thing of like...
1281
01:00:11,085 --> 01:00:13,087
me being uncomfortable.
1282
01:00:17,222 --> 01:00:17,918
I'm just gonna
let you keep talking then.
1283
01:00:20,834 --> 01:00:24,969
In 1994, lesbians
were not represented
1284
01:00:25,099 --> 01:00:27,885
except for movies like
"Desert Hearts"
1285
01:00:28,015 --> 01:00:29,408
and "Claire of the Moon."
1286
01:00:29,538 --> 01:00:33,151
Sex between women
is as raw as it gets.
1287
01:00:35,327 --> 01:00:40,245
What we did with "Go Fish"
was life-changing.
1288
01:00:43,074 --> 01:00:44,423
Why are you taunting me?
1289
01:00:44,553 --> 01:00:45,946
I don't need to be reminded
every day that
1290
01:00:46,077 --> 01:00:47,469
I haven't slept
with a woman in ten months.
1291
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:49,994
Got letters from everywhere.
1292
01:00:50,124 --> 01:00:54,302
Young women telling me that
their lives have been changed
1293
01:00:54,433 --> 01:00:56,435
by seeing this movie.
1294
01:00:56,565 --> 01:01:00,613
We actually ended up becoming
poster children for lesbianism.
1295
01:01:03,050 --> 01:01:04,704
I'm not going to lie,
1296
01:01:04,835 --> 01:01:09,622
it was very challenging that
we made "Go Fish"
1297
01:01:09,753 --> 01:01:11,668
and Kevin met us
1298
01:01:11,798 --> 01:01:16,194
and he decided that this would
be an interesting subject.
1299
01:01:16,324 --> 01:01:18,805
He was like,
"What do lesbians do?"
1300
01:01:18,936 --> 01:01:21,460
And I just started talking about
what it means to be gay
1301
01:01:21,590 --> 01:01:23,810
to the mainstream world
for the first time in my life.
1302
01:01:23,941 --> 01:01:26,813
And so I-- you know, I just--
I'm like, "No, like, ask me.
1303
01:01:26,944 --> 01:01:29,076
Ask me what?"
Now, watching "Chasing Amy,"
1304
01:01:29,207 --> 01:01:31,513
I'm like, huh.
1305
01:01:31,644 --> 01:01:35,082
That idea-- when she says,
like, you know,
1306
01:01:35,213 --> 01:01:38,129
"I want to go fuck this girl."
And then he's like,
1307
01:01:38,259 --> 01:01:39,565
"What? How do you?"
You said fuck.
1308
01:01:39,696 --> 01:01:41,828
She said fuck.
You said fuck to that girl.
1309
01:01:41,959 --> 01:01:43,090
You said
that you'd fuck her.
1310
01:01:43,221 --> 01:01:44,222
And?
1311
01:01:44,352 --> 01:01:45,527
It gets into
a whole conversation
1312
01:01:45,658 --> 01:01:48,748
about the broader term
of fucking versus penetration.
1313
01:01:48,879 --> 01:01:50,445
Well then what's
with saying fuck?
1314
01:01:50,576 --> 01:01:52,012
Shouldn't you say
"eat her out?"
1315
01:01:52,143 --> 01:01:53,187
Or at least modify
the term "fuck"
1316
01:01:53,318 --> 01:01:54,798
with something like "fist?"
1317
01:01:54,928 --> 01:01:57,235
I'm like, "Hm, you're welcome,
Kevin Smith."
1318
01:01:57,365 --> 01:01:59,237
That is 100% a conversation
that we had.
1319
01:02:01,761 --> 01:02:04,633
Watching "Chasing Amy"
all these years later,
1320
01:02:04,764 --> 01:02:08,246
Kevin Smith has an ear
for dialog.
1321
01:02:08,376 --> 01:02:10,161
He's just really good at that.
1322
01:02:10,291 --> 01:02:15,340
There's so much in this movie
that makes me just happy--
1323
01:02:15,470 --> 01:02:19,997
happy to have been a part of it.
It is heartfelt, it is lovely.
1324
01:02:20,127 --> 01:02:23,914
It's so within itself.
It's so true.
1325
01:02:24,044 --> 01:02:27,656
There are a lot of, like,
subtleties about friendships,
1326
01:02:27,787 --> 01:02:30,529
particularly friendships
between men.
1327
01:02:30,659 --> 01:02:33,271
I feel generous in a way
that I 100% didn't
1328
01:02:33,401 --> 01:02:34,968
when I was that age,
1329
01:02:35,099 --> 01:02:38,537
and I had various decades
of dyke rage about it.
1330
01:02:38,667 --> 01:02:41,670
I was 25 years old,
1331
01:02:41,801 --> 01:02:44,238
and I had made a movie
about dykes
1332
01:02:44,369 --> 01:02:45,326
that no one had ever seen.
1333
01:02:45,457 --> 01:02:48,982
And I watched him
doing everything
1334
01:02:49,113 --> 01:02:50,984
and getting all the deals
and all the things.
1335
01:02:51,115 --> 01:02:54,858
The winners are "Clerks,"
directed by Kevin Smith.
1336
01:02:56,076 --> 01:02:57,643
Had our first screening,
was really good,
1337
01:02:57,774 --> 01:02:59,471
and the second screening
was was great, too.
1338
01:02:59,601 --> 01:03:00,472
There was a piece
in the New York Times
1339
01:03:00,602 --> 01:03:01,603
about it as well.
1340
01:03:01,734 --> 01:03:02,735
So then the buzz started,
1341
01:03:02,866 --> 01:03:04,824
and after that
we had a sit-down dinner
1342
01:03:04,955 --> 01:03:07,261
with Harvey Weinstein
and Miramax,
1343
01:03:07,392 --> 01:03:10,221
and-- and they were into it
and they picked it up.
1344
01:03:10,351 --> 01:03:13,224
And I remember just,
like, sitting with him,
1345
01:03:13,354 --> 01:03:16,183
just being like, "Dude,
do you see what's happening?
1346
01:03:16,314 --> 01:03:19,447
Like, you're getting all
the opportunities and I'm not."
1347
01:03:19,578 --> 01:03:23,538
He was like, "You're jealous,
and you're being weird."
1348
01:03:23,669 --> 01:03:25,497
I don't think we--
either of us knew
1349
01:03:25,627 --> 01:03:26,933
exactly what was
going to happen.
1350
01:03:27,064 --> 01:03:31,416
But what emerged was that
1351
01:03:31,546 --> 01:03:35,637
Kevin got an empire,
and we were just some dykes.
1352
01:03:38,292 --> 01:03:40,468
So you make "Chasing Amy"
1353
01:03:40,599 --> 01:03:42,731
- for $250,000.
- We did.
1354
01:03:42,862 --> 01:03:44,733
And you take the film back
to Harvey Weinstein.
1355
01:03:44,864 --> 01:03:45,734
Yes.
1356
01:03:45,865 --> 01:03:48,868
So, as you know,
we met with him up
1357
01:03:48,999 --> 01:03:52,089
at the Stein Eriksen Lodge,
and I pitched,
1358
01:03:52,219 --> 01:03:53,568
"We're going to make
the movie for this.
1359
01:03:53,699 --> 01:03:54,918
If you like it,
you keep it.
1360
01:03:55,048 --> 01:03:56,441
If not, we take it out
and sell it."
1361
01:03:56,571 --> 01:03:58,791
We took it back to him
and showed him the movie
1362
01:03:58,922 --> 01:04:00,662
in the Tribeca screening room.
1363
01:04:00,793 --> 01:04:03,448
He's crying, Harvey.
1364
01:04:03,578 --> 01:04:07,408
And he goes,
"That's a Miramax movie."
1365
01:04:07,539 --> 01:04:11,760
Which I loved at the time.
I loved hearing that.
1366
01:04:11,891 --> 01:04:14,633
You know, I thought
he was who I thought he was.
1367
01:04:14,763 --> 01:04:17,854
Now, put through the filter
of what we know...
1368
01:04:19,812 --> 01:04:23,120
tough to fucking feel
sentimental about it.
1369
01:04:23,250 --> 01:04:24,904
I mean, maybe that's
how I do feel-- sentimental.
1370
01:04:25,035 --> 01:04:26,775
I go, "How sweet."
1371
01:04:26,906 --> 01:04:31,824
Like that,
naive, like 26-27 year-old.
1372
01:04:31,955 --> 01:04:34,479
He just believed
everything he was presented.
1373
01:04:34,609 --> 01:04:36,394
We go to Sundance with it.
1374
01:04:36,524 --> 01:04:38,918
It was an amazing evening
and stuff.
1375
01:04:39,049 --> 01:04:41,181
Harvey had dollar signs
in his eyes,
1376
01:04:41,312 --> 01:04:43,967
and fucking everybody was happy,
1377
01:04:44,097 --> 01:04:47,405
and it would have been great
if it stayed that way.
1378
01:04:47,535 --> 01:04:49,929
This is Sundance '97.
1379
01:04:50,060 --> 01:04:53,454
So if you follow
the Harvey Weinstein case,
1380
01:04:53,585 --> 01:04:57,197
that's the year
with Rose McGowan at--
1381
01:04:57,328 --> 01:04:59,199
where he attacks Rose McGowan.
1382
01:04:59,330 --> 01:05:02,637
All of this was happening while
we were doing "Chasing Amy,"
1383
01:05:02,768 --> 01:05:04,552
telling, you know,
showing this movie
1384
01:05:04,683 --> 01:05:06,903
to the world
that's very feminist
1385
01:05:07,033 --> 01:05:08,992
and, you know, kind of
forward thinking and stuff.
1386
01:05:09,122 --> 01:05:11,603
I can't erase the past.
1387
01:05:11,733 --> 01:05:14,171
I can't go back and take
his name off the fucking movies.
1388
01:05:14,301 --> 01:05:16,347
I don't even own the movies
and shit like that.
1389
01:05:16,477 --> 01:05:20,438
I can't undo the fact that
my career is tied up with him.
1390
01:05:25,922 --> 01:05:26,923
- Hi, Joey.
- Hi.
1391
01:05:27,053 --> 01:05:27,967
- How are you?
- Good.
1392
01:05:28,098 --> 01:05:29,099
Good.
1393
01:05:29,229 --> 01:05:30,448
- We're at your house.
- We are.
1394
01:05:30,578 --> 01:05:31,405
Thank you
for letting us be here.
1395
01:05:31,536 --> 01:05:32,841
Yeah.
1396
01:05:32,972 --> 01:05:35,105
This is the first time
there's been a film crew inside.
1397
01:05:35,235 --> 01:05:37,063
Ask me something I haven't been
asked about "Chasing Amy."
1398
01:05:37,194 --> 01:05:38,064
Okay.
1399
01:05:38,195 --> 01:05:39,457
That's a lot of pressure.
1400
01:05:39,587 --> 01:05:40,849
I think I can-- You know what?
I think I can do it, though.
1401
01:05:40,980 --> 01:05:41,981
Can you?
1402
01:05:42,112 --> 01:05:43,504
This moment
is 13 years in the making.
1403
01:05:43,635 --> 01:05:45,115
I think the first time
I saw it,
1404
01:05:45,245 --> 01:05:47,421
I was like, "This is a love
story, and I want love."
1405
01:05:47,552 --> 01:05:49,467
Like I feel-- You know, I think
the first time I saw it,
1406
01:05:49,597 --> 01:05:51,338
I was, like,
very much Holden.
1407
01:05:51,469 --> 01:05:54,428
And then slowly, as I started
to know more about my sexuality,
1408
01:05:54,559 --> 01:05:57,649
this is my only reference point
to how I may feel
1409
01:05:57,779 --> 01:06:00,347
about having a fluid sexuality, right?
1410
01:06:00,478 --> 01:06:03,785
And that movie gave me that--
that reference point,
1411
01:06:03,916 --> 01:06:07,441
and it literally is how
I came out to my mom was--
1412
01:06:07,572 --> 01:06:08,921
because she didn't know
what pansexual was.
1413
01:06:09,052 --> 01:06:11,141
I was like,
"Do you remember 'Chasing Amy?'
1414
01:06:11,271 --> 01:06:12,794
I feel how Alyssa feels."
1415
01:06:12,925 --> 01:06:14,927
And that was the moment
where my mom was like,
1416
01:06:15,058 --> 01:06:17,060
"Is that all? Is that what
all this fuss has been about?"
1417
01:06:18,278 --> 01:06:19,497
Well, you have a very cool mom.
1418
01:06:19,627 --> 01:06:21,238
A very cool mom.
1419
01:06:21,368 --> 01:06:23,196
But anyway, so I feel like
I can ask you a question
1420
01:06:23,327 --> 01:06:25,894
that maybe you haven't been
asked a thousand times before,
1421
01:06:26,025 --> 01:06:28,071
but I will have to ask you
some very basic questions.
1422
01:06:28,201 --> 01:06:29,855
So you get this role.
1423
01:06:29,986 --> 01:06:32,466
It's written specifically
for you, it's tailored for you.
1424
01:06:32,597 --> 01:06:33,815
And then, you know,
but also,
1425
01:06:33,946 --> 01:06:35,730
there's this LGBTQ element
of it.
1426
01:06:35,861 --> 01:06:39,996
Was that daunting to play,
as somebody who's straight?
1427
01:06:40,126 --> 01:06:43,042
Slightly? I mean,
I think because the script...
1428
01:06:45,088 --> 01:06:48,004
was somewhat personal
between Kevin and I,
1429
01:06:48,134 --> 01:06:52,138
I felt I had a right to play
the role to some degree.
1430
01:06:52,269 --> 01:06:54,575
And my biggest fear was, like,
lipstick lesbian,
1431
01:06:54,706 --> 01:06:55,968
that sort of thing.
1432
01:06:56,099 --> 01:06:58,405
I didn't want her
to seem like that.
1433
01:06:58,536 --> 01:07:01,408
And I just kept thinking like,
you know, what am I going to do?
1434
01:07:01,539 --> 01:07:03,541
What am I going to do?
What am I going to do?
1435
01:07:03,671 --> 01:07:05,021
And then I just
realized that like,
1436
01:07:05,151 --> 01:07:06,848
I shouldn't do
anything different.
1437
01:07:06,979 --> 01:07:09,851
It's not a haircut.
It's not the jewelry.
1438
01:07:09,982 --> 01:07:12,724
It's not-- Am I going try
and play her butch? Am I--
1439
01:07:12,854 --> 01:07:14,682
Like,
just play her authentic.
1440
01:07:14,813 --> 01:07:18,773
For me to try and, like,
do what I think is gay
1441
01:07:18,904 --> 01:07:21,298
just seemed wrong.
1442
01:07:21,428 --> 01:07:23,169
Does it feel weird to be,
1443
01:07:23,300 --> 01:07:24,866
I don't know,
like, the face of "Chasing Amy?"
1444
01:07:24,997 --> 01:07:26,694
Yes. Yes.
1445
01:07:29,219 --> 01:07:31,395
Kevin wrote that movie, not me.
1446
01:07:31,525 --> 01:07:33,049
It was my story,
to some degree,
1447
01:07:33,179 --> 01:07:37,009
but the film
wasn't my truth.
1448
01:07:38,141 --> 01:07:39,272
If I were to have written
a film
1449
01:07:39,403 --> 01:07:41,013
about Kevin and I's
relationship,
1450
01:07:41,144 --> 01:07:42,928
it would have been-- it
would not have been that film.
1451
01:07:44,408 --> 01:07:47,672
I was getting to play
a character
1452
01:07:47,802 --> 01:07:49,674
that was complicated
and amazing,
1453
01:07:49,804 --> 01:07:52,155
but for me to sort of
take credit
1454
01:07:52,285 --> 01:07:55,941
for how it affected someone
feels strange to me.
1455
01:07:56,072 --> 01:07:58,509
Whatever moved you
was Kevin's truth.
1456
01:07:58,639 --> 01:08:01,120
It wasn't my truth.
1457
01:08:01,251 --> 01:08:05,255
It's weird for a stranger
to put that on you.
1458
01:08:05,385 --> 01:08:07,605
There's a weird energy exchange
right here, and it's--
1459
01:08:07,735 --> 01:08:12,000
And I feel like--
Like, are you looking to me
1460
01:08:12,131 --> 01:08:13,654
for something
that I can't give you?
1461
01:08:13,785 --> 01:08:15,308
I don't know what it is
you want from me.
1462
01:08:15,439 --> 01:08:18,311
I don't know why you want
to talk to me.
1463
01:08:18,442 --> 01:08:19,878
I don't know.
1464
01:08:20,008 --> 01:08:21,575
It's cool that I get
to talk to you at all.
1465
01:08:21,706 --> 01:08:23,664
I hope we get to be friends
after this or something.
1466
01:08:23,795 --> 01:08:25,057
Right, but it's more
than that.
1467
01:08:25,188 --> 01:08:26,711
Like, you would not
have, like--
1468
01:08:26,841 --> 01:08:28,016
I mean, there's three cameras
in this room.
1469
01:08:28,147 --> 01:08:29,975
- Right.
- And you know what I mean?
1470
01:08:30,106 --> 01:08:31,759
Like, if you just wanted
to talk to me,
1471
01:08:31,890 --> 01:08:33,239
you could have come
to a convention I did.
1472
01:08:33,370 --> 01:08:36,155
- Sure.
- And come up to the table.
1473
01:08:36,286 --> 01:08:38,636
Like it's, you know--
like it's more than just, like,
1474
01:08:38,766 --> 01:08:40,072
"I just wanted to meet you
and talk to you."
1475
01:08:40,203 --> 01:08:42,161
Like, you wouldn't have...
1476
01:08:42,292 --> 01:08:44,076
been able to pull all
of this together.
1477
01:08:44,207 --> 01:08:45,773
Maybe what I'm here for is,
like,
1478
01:08:45,904 --> 01:08:47,514
we have been
strangely connected
1479
01:08:47,645 --> 01:08:50,300
through my weird fixation
on this movie.
1480
01:08:50,430 --> 01:08:52,867
While I think
it's totally understandable
1481
01:08:52,998 --> 01:08:57,045
why I am fixated on this movie.
I think it's really rad that,
1482
01:08:57,176 --> 01:08:58,873
you know, giving a fucking
TED Talk about it.
1483
01:08:59,004 --> 01:09:02,747
You know, watching it 200 times
to not kill myself.
1484
01:09:02,877 --> 01:09:04,314
- Right. Right.
- You know, like that.
1485
01:09:04,444 --> 01:09:06,577
And that's not a thing
I'm trying to put on anybody.
1486
01:09:06,707 --> 01:09:07,882
But like, that's literally what
my life was.
1487
01:09:08,013 --> 01:09:12,409
My journey with it
was so different from yours,
1488
01:09:12,539 --> 01:09:15,673
but it had just-- it had
a profound effect on my life.
1489
01:09:18,197 --> 01:09:22,114
We really hated each other,
and then we got together
1490
01:09:22,245 --> 01:09:23,637
and it's just great.
1491
01:09:23,768 --> 01:09:24,682
I'm so in love.
1492
01:09:26,814 --> 01:09:28,381
Kevin wasn't just,
like, a boyfriend.
1493
01:09:28,512 --> 01:09:32,385
Kevin was a very profound
relationship in my life.
1494
01:09:32,516 --> 01:09:36,868
How often do you sit with exes
and go back down memory lane
1495
01:09:36,998 --> 01:09:38,609
about a film
that you made together?
1496
01:09:38,739 --> 01:09:43,701
It wasn't fun getting shit
constantly about having been
1497
01:09:43,831 --> 01:09:46,921
with other men,
having gone to Bali.
1498
01:09:47,052 --> 01:09:49,620
There were fights
and they were-- they hurt.
1499
01:09:49,750 --> 01:09:52,710
You know, it was painful.
It was really, really painful.
1500
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:54,581
As much as I loved Kevin,
1501
01:09:54,712 --> 01:09:56,496
it's really awful to be
in a relationship with someone
1502
01:09:56,627 --> 01:09:59,151
who, like, never believes
that you love them.
1503
01:09:59,282 --> 01:10:03,111
Why me?
You know? Why-- Why now?
1504
01:10:03,242 --> 01:10:05,592
Where you're constantly
having to be, like,
1505
01:10:05,723 --> 01:10:07,855
"But I wouldn't be with you
if I didn't love you."
1506
01:10:07,986 --> 01:10:09,988
- Who's my favorite director?
- Yeah.
1507
01:10:10,118 --> 01:10:11,903
- You can't ask me that.
- Why not?
1508
01:10:12,033 --> 01:10:13,383
Because we'll fight
all the way home.
1509
01:10:13,513 --> 01:10:15,211
Yeah, exactly.
I got to go home with this guy.
1510
01:10:15,341 --> 01:10:17,038
Oh, no.
1511
01:10:17,169 --> 01:10:19,693
It wasn't this cathartic
thing that I think
1512
01:10:19,824 --> 01:10:21,042
it was for Kevin.
1513
01:10:21,173 --> 01:10:22,783
It's not like, you know--
1514
01:10:22,914 --> 01:10:25,612
Like we did that movie
and everything was resolved,
1515
01:10:25,743 --> 01:10:27,571
which Kevin talks kind of
like...
1516
01:10:29,181 --> 01:10:30,878
He wrote the movie
and figured it all out.
1517
01:10:31,009 --> 01:10:32,445
While we were making
"Chasing Amy,"
1518
01:10:32,576 --> 01:10:35,143
for the first time,
I actually had this moment
1519
01:10:35,274 --> 01:10:37,494
where I was like,
"My God, I think I've grown."
1520
01:10:37,624 --> 01:10:39,626
I was doing a lot
of emotional directing.
1521
01:10:39,757 --> 01:10:41,149
I'm glad that he made a movie,
1522
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:43,630
like, acknowledging
that it's fucked up,
1523
01:10:43,761 --> 01:10:48,156
but it doesn't change the fact
that, like, he made me feel bad
1524
01:10:48,287 --> 01:10:51,856
for having lived the life
I had lived
1525
01:10:51,986 --> 01:10:53,597
and been who I had been.
1526
01:10:53,727 --> 01:10:54,380
Right.
1527
01:10:56,817 --> 01:10:58,036
Because he was insecure.
1528
01:10:59,864 --> 01:11:01,431
I still carried...
1529
01:11:03,128 --> 01:11:04,608
what he had put on me.
1530
01:11:06,566 --> 01:11:08,916
"You're with another man?
How dare you?"
1531
01:11:09,047 --> 01:11:10,483
What the fuck's wrong with you?
1532
01:11:10,614 --> 01:11:11,397
How could you do
all those things?
1533
01:11:11,528 --> 01:11:12,398
Easily!
1534
01:11:14,226 --> 01:11:15,271
- It's a lot.
- Yeah.
1535
01:11:15,401 --> 01:11:15,967
Wow.
1536
01:11:17,490 --> 01:11:19,884
That's-- That's, like,
an enduring kind of,
1537
01:11:20,014 --> 01:11:21,015
like, fucked up thing.
1538
01:11:21,146 --> 01:11:22,452
Yeah.
1539
01:11:22,582 --> 01:11:23,888
And now there's this, like,
really neat little movie
1540
01:11:24,018 --> 01:11:25,672
where everything is, like,
kind of tied up in a bow
1541
01:11:25,803 --> 01:11:27,370
because he gives a speech
in a diner.
1542
01:11:27,500 --> 01:11:30,895
But what I did not get--
she didn't care.
1543
01:11:31,025 --> 01:11:32,723
She wasn't looking
for that guy anymore.
1544
01:11:32,853 --> 01:11:34,551
She was-- she was looking
for me-- for-- for the Bob.
1545
01:11:34,681 --> 01:11:37,031
And it's like,
everything wasn't okay.
1546
01:11:37,162 --> 01:11:39,991
We had still lived
through that.
1547
01:11:40,121 --> 01:11:42,254
By the time I figured
this all out,
1548
01:11:42,385 --> 01:11:43,342
it's too late.
1549
01:11:43,473 --> 01:11:44,517
- She moved on.
- I love the movie.
1550
01:11:44,648 --> 01:11:45,866
I'm glad I made it,
but it's, like,
1551
01:11:45,997 --> 01:11:48,782
I had to take all of that
and put it back on Kevin
1552
01:11:48,913 --> 01:11:51,307
because it's not mine to carry.
1553
01:11:51,437 --> 01:11:52,438
It's a lot to deal with.
1554
01:11:54,440 --> 01:11:55,876
Wow. Sorry. I'm still--
1555
01:11:56,007 --> 01:11:57,269
- I'm just processing all this.
- No, no, no, no.
1556
01:11:57,400 --> 01:12:00,490
Um, wow.
I love that this is, like,
1557
01:12:00,620 --> 01:12:02,666
unlike any "Chasing Amy"
interview I've ever done.
1558
01:12:02,796 --> 01:12:04,407
- See?
- And I might regret it.
1559
01:12:04,537 --> 01:12:06,539
- I don't know, but--
- I hope not.
1560
01:12:06,670 --> 01:12:08,541
I don't love looking back
on that time.
1561
01:12:08,672 --> 01:12:11,283
It brings up, like,
all of those--
1562
01:12:11,414 --> 01:12:14,460
those feelings of, like, that--
not just boyfriends,
1563
01:12:14,591 --> 01:12:18,203
but, like, casting directors
and producers of just like,
1564
01:12:18,334 --> 01:12:20,074
"You're just a piece of meat.
You're a whore."
1565
01:12:20,205 --> 01:12:21,815
I know that he gets asked
that since we date,
1566
01:12:21,946 --> 01:12:25,428
like, what do I look like naked
and things like that.
1567
01:12:25,558 --> 01:12:27,517
"What's it like
sleeping with her?"
1568
01:12:27,647 --> 01:12:29,606
That was when Harvey was around,
who treated me like shit.
1569
01:12:29,736 --> 01:12:31,912
And I was, like,
a young actress in Hollywood,
1570
01:12:32,043 --> 01:12:35,307
going through all those stories
that you've heard.
1571
01:12:35,438 --> 01:12:36,569
Me like you.
1572
01:12:36,700 --> 01:12:37,831
Oh, I like you.
1573
01:12:37,962 --> 01:12:39,050
Hi.
1574
01:12:39,180 --> 01:12:40,834
Sundance, for me, was like,
1575
01:12:40,965 --> 01:12:44,577
"Oh, Harvey's, like--
doesn't want to fuck me, so--"
1576
01:12:44,708 --> 01:12:46,100
You know,
and there was that energy there.
1577
01:12:46,231 --> 01:12:48,451
I mean, we all knew
who Harvey was.
1578
01:12:50,104 --> 01:12:52,803
You'd be in a room with him
and you could feel it.
1579
01:12:52,933 --> 01:12:54,239
Rose was getting raped.
1580
01:12:54,370 --> 01:12:57,634
You know, there was
another side to--
1581
01:12:57,764 --> 01:13:00,027
to the, like, "We made a movie
that went to Sundance,
1582
01:13:00,158 --> 01:13:02,856
and it did really well."
And there's a dark side, too.
1583
01:13:02,987 --> 01:13:04,336
I don't wish that like, "God,
1584
01:13:04,467 --> 01:13:06,599
I wish we were back doing
'Chasing Amy.'"
1585
01:13:06,730 --> 01:13:09,210
Like, that was not, like,
the best time in life for me.
1586
01:13:10,864 --> 01:13:12,126
So how do you feel
about being nominated tonight?
1587
01:13:12,257 --> 01:13:13,563
It's wonderful.
1588
01:13:13,693 --> 01:13:14,564
I mean, MTV, it's-- I think
that's more my audience
1589
01:13:14,694 --> 01:13:17,305
with a film like "Chasing Amy."
1590
01:13:17,436 --> 01:13:18,524
So it's an honor.
1591
01:13:18,655 --> 01:13:19,786
It really is.
1592
01:13:19,917 --> 01:13:22,659
It's that A.D. who's like,
"Come sit in my lap.
1593
01:13:22,789 --> 01:13:23,573
Come sit in my lap.
1594
01:13:23,703 --> 01:13:24,878
Come on. It's just fun."
1595
01:13:25,009 --> 01:13:25,705
Did I make you uncomfortable?
1596
01:13:25,836 --> 01:13:26,967
- No, no, no, no.
- I'm sorry.
1597
01:13:27,098 --> 01:13:28,926
You know how to make
a boy feel horny.
1598
01:13:29,056 --> 01:13:31,015
And you have to do it because
you can't be the actress
1599
01:13:31,145 --> 01:13:32,364
that's like, "Fuck you.
1600
01:13:32,495 --> 01:13:34,148
I'm not going to sit
in your lap."
1601
01:13:34,279 --> 01:13:36,020
Then you're difficult and
no one wants to work with you.
1602
01:13:36,150 --> 01:13:38,109
I went back through my IMDb,
1603
01:13:38,239 --> 01:13:40,677
of just like,
"Oh, right, on this movie...
1604
01:13:40,807 --> 01:13:42,853
Oh, and on that movie...
and on that movie,
1605
01:13:42,983 --> 01:13:44,811
the actor would come in
and show us his dick."
1606
01:13:44,942 --> 01:13:48,511
I hated Harvey.
I hated being around him,
1607
01:13:48,641 --> 01:13:50,730
and I hated how Kevin had
to kiss his ass.
1608
01:13:50,861 --> 01:13:52,428
And it's, like, it's hard
to go in as an actress
1609
01:13:52,558 --> 01:13:53,864
and like,
knowing that, like,
1610
01:13:53,994 --> 01:13:55,605
Harvey doesn't want you
to play the role.
1611
01:13:55,735 --> 01:13:58,216
And then for him to never call
and just be like,
1612
01:13:58,346 --> 01:14:00,436
"God, I've seen dailies, Joey,
and you're doing a great job."
1613
01:14:00,566 --> 01:14:03,395
Like he's just
a fucking asshole.
1614
01:14:03,526 --> 01:14:05,745
Like, that's what I was doing
in my 20s.
1615
01:14:05,876 --> 01:14:11,403
I was trying to, like, be taken
seriously as an actress,
1616
01:14:11,534 --> 01:14:13,666
and then I was dating this guy
1617
01:14:13,797 --> 01:14:17,322
who made me feel bad
about myself.
1618
01:14:22,196 --> 01:14:24,372
Tonight's nominees for
Best Performance by an Actress
1619
01:14:24,503 --> 01:14:27,941
in a Motion Picture,
Musical, or Comedy are...
1620
01:14:28,072 --> 01:14:30,378
Joey Lauren Adams,
"Chasing Amy."
1621
01:14:31,641 --> 01:14:33,077
You see why when you're like,
1622
01:14:33,207 --> 01:14:35,122
"Oh my God, 'Chasing Amy'
and this great--"
1623
01:14:35,253 --> 01:14:37,473
And, like, again, yes, the movie
is great and it's amazing,
1624
01:14:37,603 --> 01:14:39,692
but it's, like,
I have my own story with, like,
1625
01:14:39,823 --> 01:14:42,260
what was going on in my life
when-- at that age
1626
01:14:42,390 --> 01:14:44,088
and what surrounds that.
1627
01:14:44,218 --> 01:14:47,874
And it's those guys-- having to
go to dinner with old men
1628
01:14:48,005 --> 01:14:51,574
and being promised roles
and not getting them.
1629
01:14:51,704 --> 01:14:54,315
And for Kevin,
it's a funny fucking story.
1630
01:14:56,187 --> 01:14:56,840
Yeah.
1631
01:15:00,408 --> 01:15:02,454
And not to say that Kevin
writing that movie
1632
01:15:02,585 --> 01:15:05,588
didn't mean a lot to me.
1633
01:15:05,718 --> 01:15:07,503
You know, that he could see
at least,
1634
01:15:07,633 --> 01:15:09,374
like, what he was doing
was wrong.
1635
01:15:09,505 --> 01:15:12,333
But it doesn't change the two
years that, like, I lived it.
1636
01:15:15,032 --> 01:15:19,297
I'm really grateful still
that you were in this movie.
1637
01:15:19,427 --> 01:15:21,995
I am, too.
I mean, I'm incredibly grateful.
1638
01:15:23,083 --> 01:15:27,131
And I'm-- And I'm-- you know,
I am so happy that...
1639
01:15:27,261 --> 01:15:28,872
that it saved your life.
1640
01:15:29,002 --> 01:15:30,874
From the pain
and the fucked-up-ness
1641
01:15:31,004 --> 01:15:33,485
and everything, that something
this beautiful came from it
1642
01:15:33,616 --> 01:15:35,269
is incredible.
1643
01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:36,749
It could have just been pain
and fucked-up-ness
1644
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:39,839
and you know,
nothing ever happened.
1645
01:15:39,970 --> 01:15:43,800
But that Kevin was able to make
something beautiful from it--
1646
01:15:43,930 --> 01:15:47,238
like, that's--
that's what's incredible.
1647
01:15:47,368 --> 01:15:48,761
Not me, you know?
1648
01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:58,641
I went back to Kansas
after the Joey interview.
1649
01:15:58,771 --> 01:16:02,079
I needed a bit of a break
from making this movie.
1650
01:16:06,170 --> 01:16:07,954
- Okay, well.
- I can do it.
1651
01:16:09,260 --> 01:16:11,088
- Is that how you cut hair?
- Yeah.
1652
01:16:11,218 --> 01:16:13,046
My grandma got sick with cancer.
1653
01:16:13,177 --> 01:16:15,309
I wanted to spend time with her,
I'd also just come out as trans.
1654
01:16:15,440 --> 01:16:18,748
And I really wanted
to transition privately,
1655
01:16:18,878 --> 01:16:20,271
with my family's support.
1656
01:16:20,401 --> 01:16:22,447
I've never had a partner
cut my hair before.
1657
01:16:22,578 --> 01:16:25,232
You've never had
a partner before?
1658
01:16:25,363 --> 01:16:26,843
I-- I dated people before you.
1659
01:16:26,973 --> 01:16:28,627
And I really needed
perspective.
1660
01:16:28,758 --> 01:16:31,891
Was I naive to go into
that interview the way I did?
1661
01:16:32,022 --> 01:16:34,198
Do you want that, like,
completely above your ear or?
1662
01:16:34,328 --> 01:16:35,982
Hey, Mom. Can you help her?
1663
01:16:36,113 --> 01:16:37,505
Just--
It's about what you want.
1664
01:16:37,636 --> 01:16:38,506
I don't know how to--
1665
01:16:38,637 --> 01:16:39,638
This is finally
your opportunity.
1666
01:16:39,769 --> 01:16:41,248
I don't know how to answer
that question.
1667
01:16:42,206 --> 01:16:43,773
I just needed a minute
to collect myself
1668
01:16:43,903 --> 01:16:46,558
and to not live
in "Chasing Amy" world.
1669
01:16:46,689 --> 01:16:48,342
I'll organize socks.
1670
01:16:48,473 --> 01:16:50,823
Yeah, I was going to say that,
because that's about
1671
01:16:50,954 --> 01:16:53,957
where your area of expertise
begins and ends.
1672
01:16:54,087 --> 01:16:54,784
Wow.
1673
01:16:57,917 --> 01:16:59,876
Thank you for doing
the laundry.
1674
01:17:00,006 --> 01:17:01,529
You're welcome.
1675
01:17:01,660 --> 01:17:03,749
I kind of lost steam--
1676
01:17:03,880 --> 01:17:07,623
lost a sense of purpose-- where
I was at with the documentary,
1677
01:17:07,753 --> 01:17:11,191
what I wanted to do,
who I want to be.
1678
01:17:13,063 --> 01:17:15,239
- Happy birthday.
- Happy birthday.
1679
01:17:15,369 --> 01:17:16,806
- Hello.
- Hello.
1680
01:17:16,936 --> 01:17:19,025
- You look cute.
- Thanks.
1681
01:17:19,156 --> 01:17:20,810
- Do you like my camera?
- I do.
1682
01:17:20,940 --> 01:17:22,768
- It's very high tech.
- I know.
1683
01:17:22,899 --> 01:17:25,249
Look at that.
It's the future.
1684
01:17:25,379 --> 01:17:26,598
Oh, you can see my mustache.
1685
01:17:29,079 --> 01:17:30,689
Of course you can.
1686
01:17:30,820 --> 01:17:32,691
It's barely there,
but you can see it.
1687
01:17:32,822 --> 01:17:34,911
After a while,
I reached out to Kevin,
1688
01:17:35,041 --> 01:17:37,087
and I was just like, "Hey, man,
can we just, like, catch up?"
1689
01:17:39,916 --> 01:17:43,354
I got to say, before,
when we first snapped onto Zoom
1690
01:17:43,484 --> 01:17:45,748
and I had my--
my windows blocked
1691
01:17:45,878 --> 01:17:47,488
because I was closing
other windows,
1692
01:17:47,619 --> 01:17:49,012
so I didn't see you.
1693
01:17:49,142 --> 01:17:51,014
Yeah. And it threw me
because I was like,
1694
01:17:51,144 --> 01:17:54,844
Oh, Sav is having me set up
with some tech,
1695
01:17:54,974 --> 01:17:57,760
because it did not sound
like your voice.
1696
01:17:57,890 --> 01:18:00,066
That's six months
on testosterone, my dude.
1697
01:18:00,197 --> 01:18:02,765
So I've got, like,
a more noticeable mustache,
1698
01:18:02,895 --> 01:18:05,115
and then I've got, like,
a lot of hair under here,
1699
01:18:05,245 --> 01:18:07,204
but you can't really see it
1700
01:18:07,334 --> 01:18:08,814
because I have that Zoom filter
on that makes you look better.
1701
01:18:09,989 --> 01:18:11,295
I don't know about that filter.
1702
01:18:11,425 --> 01:18:13,819
In the next decade, I'll have
the the beautiful beard
1703
01:18:13,950 --> 01:18:16,256
that I've always, like, wanted
and seen myself having,
1704
01:18:16,387 --> 01:18:16,996
I'm excited.
1705
01:18:17,127 --> 01:18:18,041
Like, I know who I am.
1706
01:18:18,171 --> 01:18:19,782
You know, it's been
a long process to,
1707
01:18:19,912 --> 01:18:24,090
like, accept myself,
and it was really fucking scary.
1708
01:18:24,221 --> 01:18:26,789
And, you know, I'm grateful
for your support.
1709
01:18:26,919 --> 01:18:29,356
It was just nice to have
an outside person who, like,
1710
01:18:29,487 --> 01:18:32,272
I finally told to just say like,
"Hey, man, you're okay.
1711
01:18:32,403 --> 01:18:34,100
Like, you're going to be fine
if you do this."
1712
01:18:34,231 --> 01:18:36,276
To me, it was like,
it's so weird
1713
01:18:36,407 --> 01:18:38,583
because almost from the
beginning of our relationship,
1714
01:18:38,714 --> 01:18:41,412
it was, like,
a matter of fact.
1715
01:18:41,542 --> 01:18:43,283
Well, I wanted you
to know me.
1716
01:18:43,414 --> 01:18:45,721
It's also a fascinating part
of the story.
1717
01:18:45,851 --> 01:18:48,071
Like, you know, first off,
1718
01:18:48,201 --> 01:18:51,422
I find you by the video,
the TED Talk,
1719
01:18:51,552 --> 01:18:53,772
and I was like,
"Oh, my God. Like, it's--"
1720
01:18:53,903 --> 01:18:56,079
Here's somebody saying
nice things about "Chasing Amy"
1721
01:18:56,209 --> 01:18:57,689
in 2020.
1722
01:18:57,820 --> 01:18:59,560
Like, that's-- that's rare.
1723
01:18:59,691 --> 01:19:00,605
But then when we meet,
1724
01:19:00,736 --> 01:19:03,303
it's like,
this story is going on,
1725
01:19:03,434 --> 01:19:06,872
it's still developing,
and it's the story of your life.
1726
01:19:07,003 --> 01:19:11,616
And in an odd way, our life
stories have now intersected.
1727
01:19:11,747 --> 01:19:14,793
I feel lucky that that you've
given me so much of your time
1728
01:19:14,924 --> 01:19:16,708
and your friendship
and mentorship,
1729
01:19:16,839 --> 01:19:18,971
whatever the fuck this is, like,
I'm just grateful for that.
1730
01:19:19,102 --> 01:19:21,234
Are you kidding me?
As a story teller,
1731
01:19:21,365 --> 01:19:24,977
to have somebody talk
about the deep impact
1732
01:19:25,108 --> 01:19:29,068
that something you created made
on their life and stuff--
1733
01:19:29,199 --> 01:19:31,810
it was just confirmation
1734
01:19:31,941 --> 01:19:33,594
that you don't get
very often in life.
1735
01:19:33,725 --> 01:19:35,683
It was the gift of self back.
1736
01:19:35,814 --> 01:19:37,294
The first time we ever talked,
you were like,
1737
01:19:37,424 --> 01:19:38,948
"You can never bother me."
1738
01:19:39,078 --> 01:19:40,732
And you explicitly said
that to me.
1739
01:19:40,863 --> 01:19:43,126
And while I sometimes feel
like I am bothering you
1740
01:19:43,256 --> 01:19:45,519
just by virtue
of I know that you're busy,
1741
01:19:45,650 --> 01:19:50,089
I do appreciate everything
that you've given me, too.
1742
01:19:50,220 --> 01:19:54,659
You've been there for me
before you were there for me.
1743
01:19:54,790 --> 01:19:57,053
It's not just "Chasing Amy"
at this point.
1744
01:19:57,183 --> 01:19:59,098
I gained a friend.
1745
01:19:59,229 --> 01:20:00,578
It's me paying you back.
1746
01:20:00,708 --> 01:20:02,058
It's not vice versa.
1747
01:20:02,188 --> 01:20:04,712
Don't you get it?
Like fucking that--
1748
01:20:04,843 --> 01:20:09,021
What you did, how do I pay
that fucking back?
1749
01:20:09,152 --> 01:20:11,458
You gave me my movie back.
1750
01:20:18,683 --> 01:20:20,728
- Are you eating a sandwich?
- Yes.
1751
01:20:20,859 --> 01:20:22,513
Thank you for making
this sandwich, Mom.
1752
01:20:23,906 --> 01:20:25,777
Provided by your mother.
1753
01:20:27,474 --> 01:20:29,563
I don't know what I learned
from this whole thing.
1754
01:20:29,694 --> 01:20:34,090
I'm a fundamentally different
person now.
1755
01:20:34,220 --> 01:20:35,831
Like, I feel guilty
about the TED Talk sometimes
1756
01:20:35,961 --> 01:20:37,963
because I feel like
you think it's,
1757
01:20:38,094 --> 01:20:42,489
like, Exhibit "A" of, like,
what you call bad parenting.
1758
01:20:42,620 --> 01:20:45,362
And I'm like, "You're the hero
in that fucking story."
1759
01:20:45,492 --> 01:20:47,451
Like, you are.
1760
01:20:47,581 --> 01:20:50,367
I knew that if I told you
everything,
1761
01:20:50,497 --> 01:20:52,195
every fucked up thing
that people did,
1762
01:20:52,325 --> 01:20:55,938
I would have to acknowledge that
those things were happening.
1763
01:20:56,068 --> 01:20:57,417
I think it was, like,
an internalized way of, like,
1764
01:20:57,548 --> 01:20:59,245
"I don't want my mom to know
I'm such a loser."
1765
01:20:59,376 --> 01:21:00,856
Like, that wasn't, like,
my thought process--
1766
01:21:00,986 --> 01:21:02,770
- Oh, Sav!
- What?
1767
01:21:02,901 --> 01:21:04,947
Oh, you're breaking
my fucking heart, kid.
1768
01:21:05,077 --> 01:21:06,600
I mean, but, like--
the fact that
1769
01:21:06,731 --> 01:21:09,255
you let me watch cool movies
was, like,
1770
01:21:09,386 --> 01:21:12,128
the bit of solace I had
when I was fundamentally
1771
01:21:12,258 --> 01:21:15,305
unable to communicate
any of these things to anybody.
1772
01:21:15,435 --> 01:21:17,002
That's good.
1773
01:21:19,700 --> 01:21:23,139
The hardest thing about
being a parent
1774
01:21:23,269 --> 01:21:24,923
is watching your child...
1775
01:21:27,317 --> 01:21:32,235
hurt and not being able
to fix it.
1776
01:21:32,365 --> 01:21:33,627
I just made so many choices
1777
01:21:33,758 --> 01:21:38,067
that were absolutely
the wrong choice,
1778
01:21:38,197 --> 01:21:41,505
not just for you, but for me,
you know, for us.
1779
01:21:41,635 --> 01:21:44,073
But I mean, I think
you are absolutely
1780
01:21:44,203 --> 01:21:47,859
the hero of of the story.
1781
01:21:47,990 --> 01:21:52,472
I know it's hard on you
sometimes, kid, but...
1782
01:21:52,603 --> 01:21:54,126
you're the one.
1783
01:21:57,825 --> 01:21:59,479
And a lot of things
could have been better for you,
1784
01:21:59,610 --> 01:22:02,221
you know, that I just
didn't really know about.
1785
01:22:02,352 --> 01:22:03,483
I didn't know about it either.
1786
01:22:04,832 --> 01:22:06,834
I couldn't even Google
trans stuff
1787
01:22:06,965 --> 01:22:08,967
because I was afraid
it would make it real.
1788
01:22:09,098 --> 01:22:10,534
Couldn't even tell--
I couldn't tell you.
1789
01:22:10,664 --> 01:22:11,622
I couldn't tell Riley.
1790
01:22:11,752 --> 01:22:12,840
I was worried Riley
would leave me.
1791
01:22:12,971 --> 01:22:16,409
She liked very feminine girls.
I was never a girl.
1792
01:22:23,503 --> 01:22:25,679
- Ready?
- No.
1793
01:22:25,810 --> 01:22:28,421
Let's talk about the fact
that you still call yourself
1794
01:22:28,552 --> 01:22:30,946
a lesbian, despite
being married to a man.
1795
01:22:31,076 --> 01:22:35,080
Very Alyssa of you.
Can you talk about the weight
1796
01:22:35,211 --> 01:22:39,084
of other people's opinions
on how you identify yourself?
1797
01:22:39,215 --> 01:22:44,568
It was a journey because,
you know, it all came to happen
1798
01:22:44,698 --> 01:22:47,484
when I was starting
to live my life,
1799
01:22:47,614 --> 01:22:50,443
you know, more freely as, like,
1800
01:22:50,574 --> 01:22:54,970
an out and proud queer person.
1801
01:22:55,100 --> 01:23:00,801
So I did start feeling
a little bit conflicted,
1802
01:23:00,932 --> 01:23:04,544
but I think that's why
"Chasing Amy" was so important
1803
01:23:04,675 --> 01:23:07,895
to me,
because it made me realize
1804
01:23:08,026 --> 01:23:12,335
how labels were
really not important.
1805
01:23:12,465 --> 01:23:15,729
And I remember, like, the impact
that Alyssa monologue had on me,
1806
01:23:15,860 --> 01:23:17,688
and I was like,
"She knows."
1807
01:23:17,818 --> 01:23:19,733
I feel justified
lying in your arms...
1808
01:23:21,779 --> 01:23:23,737
because I got here
on my own terms.
1809
01:23:23,868 --> 01:23:28,873
As empowering as it is
to have a label for yourself...
1810
01:23:30,483 --> 01:23:33,269
And I have no question there
was someplace I didn't look.
1811
01:23:33,399 --> 01:23:38,100
...I don't have to
explain myself to anybody.
1812
01:23:38,230 --> 01:23:41,668
So in the end,
all that matters to me is you.
1813
01:23:41,799 --> 01:23:45,803
Because this is my husband,
and this is the love of my life.
1814
01:23:45,933 --> 01:23:49,589
Did you ever consider leaving
me when I came out as trans?
1815
01:23:51,330 --> 01:23:56,770
No, because we had
been together for so long
1816
01:23:56,901 --> 01:24:01,036
and we had been friends
for even longer.
1817
01:24:01,166 --> 01:24:03,821
Life without you
was not an option.
1818
01:24:03,951 --> 01:24:05,562
What happened to me
in that moment
1819
01:24:05,692 --> 01:24:09,522
was that I just kind of started
freaking out about like,
1820
01:24:09,653 --> 01:24:11,350
"What am I going
to tell people?
1821
01:24:11,481 --> 01:24:16,660
Because I was just going around
yelling, 'I'm a lesbian,'
1822
01:24:16,790 --> 01:24:19,358
Now I'm with a man."
And then I was like,
1823
01:24:19,489 --> 01:24:21,839
"Well, you know what?
1824
01:24:21,969 --> 01:24:24,407
This is nobody's business
but mine."
1825
01:24:24,537 --> 01:24:28,063
I love you,
and I'm attracted to you.
1826
01:24:28,193 --> 01:24:31,675
Just be in love
and just honestly--
1827
01:24:31,805 --> 01:24:34,069
just celebrate the fact
that Sav...
1828
01:24:36,636 --> 01:24:40,205
can finally be happy
and live his truth.
1829
01:24:42,251 --> 01:24:44,340
- Good answer.
- Yeah.
1830
01:24:44,470 --> 01:24:46,559
I think it's your turn
to ask me some questions.
1831
01:24:46,690 --> 01:24:48,257
So...
1832
01:24:52,565 --> 01:24:54,915
The Joey interview.
1833
01:24:55,046 --> 01:24:56,352
Yeah, the Joey interview.
1834
01:24:58,223 --> 01:25:00,312
What were you thinking?
1835
01:25:00,443 --> 01:25:02,619
The interview with Joey
was definitely a turning point.
1836
01:25:02,749 --> 01:25:04,751
I learned a lot that day.
1837
01:25:04,882 --> 01:25:07,493
I'm sure it's much worse
for Joey, having "Chasing Amy"
1838
01:25:07,624 --> 01:25:09,408
be her most well-known movie
when she has
1839
01:25:09,539 --> 01:25:12,716
all of these negative feelings
associated with it
1840
01:25:12,846 --> 01:25:16,807
than it was for me to sit there
and have to grow up real fast
1841
01:25:16,937 --> 01:25:19,940
and to realign
my expectations.
1842
01:25:20,071 --> 01:25:21,986
I don't need "Chasing Amy"
the way that I used to,
1843
01:25:22,117 --> 01:25:23,988
and I shouldn't.
1844
01:25:24,119 --> 01:25:25,990
It was a life raft
when I needed it.
1845
01:25:26,121 --> 01:25:27,122
And now...
1846
01:25:32,039 --> 01:25:33,998
Now I have new dreams.
1847
01:25:36,174 --> 01:25:37,871
This is "I Love You,
Margot Robbie,"
1848
01:25:38,002 --> 01:25:40,657
written by Sav Rodgers
and Taylor Gates.
1849
01:25:46,010 --> 01:25:48,578
Are you actually
the real Margot Robbie?
1850
01:25:48,708 --> 01:25:51,189
If I'm not, I paid way too much
for the sign.
1851
01:25:52,756 --> 01:25:53,670
Got married.
1852
01:26:07,162 --> 01:26:09,120
Moved multiple times.
1853
01:26:13,646 --> 01:26:15,953
Uh, pugs, excuse me.
1854
01:26:17,389 --> 01:26:18,347
We moved to Vegas.
1855
01:26:18,477 --> 01:26:20,740
Moved out of your
parents' basement.
1856
01:26:20,871 --> 01:26:23,569
- Mm-hmm.
- How are you liking that?
1857
01:26:23,700 --> 01:26:25,223
I like living with you great.
1858
01:26:25,354 --> 01:26:26,616
You are my favorite roommate
I've ever had.
1859
01:26:28,792 --> 01:26:33,013
I've been making a documentary
that forces me to be reflexive
1860
01:26:33,144 --> 01:26:36,103
on the nature of my identity
1861
01:26:36,234 --> 01:26:37,844
and be in a pretty
vulnerable state
1862
01:26:39,846 --> 01:26:41,544
several hours out of the day.
1863
01:26:41,674 --> 01:26:42,849
It's not the movie
I set out to make,
1864
01:26:42,980 --> 01:26:45,025
but it's the movie we have.
1865
01:26:45,156 --> 01:26:47,767
What would you say you are
the most proud of?
1866
01:26:50,030 --> 01:26:52,119
I'm proud
that I followed through.
1867
01:26:54,209 --> 01:26:56,820
This was really hard.
All of it.
1868
01:26:56,950 --> 01:27:00,084
Boy from Kansas
with few connections
1869
01:27:00,215 --> 01:27:02,086
gets the chance
to tell a story,
1870
01:27:02,217 --> 01:27:05,872
connect with the guy that made
him want to become a filmmaker,
1871
01:27:06,003 --> 01:27:11,226
and in the process of trying to
tell this very specific story,
1872
01:27:11,356 --> 01:27:12,662
all of his dreams come true.
1873
01:27:15,882 --> 01:27:17,971
I mean, I've gotten everything
I think I've wanted out of this.
1874
01:27:18,102 --> 01:27:19,103
- Yeah.
- Have I thoroughly--
1875
01:27:19,234 --> 01:27:21,018
I think you got
some new shit.
1876
01:27:21,148 --> 01:27:23,368
Have I thoroughly asked you
enough questions
1877
01:27:23,499 --> 01:27:25,327
that are not your typical
"Chasing Amy" fanfare?
1878
01:27:25,457 --> 01:27:26,502
Yeah. Yeah.
1879
01:27:26,632 --> 01:27:27,590
Is that--
Is that a good thing?
1880
01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:28,504
It's a great thing.
1881
01:27:28,634 --> 01:27:29,418
Like, I think that, like,
1882
01:27:29,548 --> 01:27:31,071
I just didn't have
another bullshit
1883
01:27:31,202 --> 01:27:33,030
- "Chasing Amy" interview in me.
- Thank God.
1884
01:27:33,160 --> 01:27:35,554
- You know?
- Yeah.
1885
01:27:35,685 --> 01:27:40,646
And he gets to leave this part
of his life where it is.
1886
01:27:40,777 --> 01:27:43,040
I just feel lucky.
1887
01:27:43,170 --> 01:27:45,564
I feel lucky to have you.
1888
01:27:45,695 --> 01:27:49,612
I mean, I don't know
where I'd be without you.
1889
01:27:52,397 --> 01:27:54,094
This one time, you said,
you know,
1890
01:27:54,225 --> 01:27:56,140
"You're making a love letter
to Kevin Smith," or whatever,
1891
01:27:56,271 --> 01:27:59,274
but like,
you're the only person
1892
01:27:59,404 --> 01:28:01,928
I want to write
a love letter to.
1893
01:28:02,059 --> 01:28:05,628
If this movie doesn't say it,
let me just say it explicitly.
1894
01:28:05,758 --> 01:28:08,935
Like,
you are everything to me.
1895
01:28:09,066 --> 01:28:13,897
I don't need
"Chasing Amy" anymore
1896
01:28:14,027 --> 01:28:16,247
because I have something real
to attach myself to,
1897
01:28:16,378 --> 01:28:17,379
and that's you.
1898
01:28:17,509 --> 01:28:18,597
I...
1899
01:28:22,384 --> 01:28:23,863
will forever be better off...
1900
01:28:26,475 --> 01:28:29,478
because of what
you've been to me.
1901
01:28:29,608 --> 01:28:31,436
And I don't mean
to paraphrase Holden there, so.
1902
01:28:32,742 --> 01:28:33,917
Thank you.
1903
01:28:34,657 --> 01:28:36,093
Thank you.
1904
01:28:37,486 --> 01:28:38,922
After you.
1905
01:29:13,957 --> 01:29:15,611
♪ Asleep in electric beds
1906
01:29:17,700 --> 01:29:19,919
♪ Counting all our sheep
1907
01:29:21,268 --> 01:29:23,488
♪ But the sky
up above our heads ♪
1908
01:29:25,011 --> 01:29:27,318
♪ It opened up
1909
01:29:29,451 --> 01:29:31,714
♪ A note from a stranger read
1910
01:29:34,281 --> 01:29:36,719
♪ You had to give
into the things ♪
1911
01:29:38,198 --> 01:29:40,331
♪ That stand before you
1912
01:29:45,510 --> 01:29:48,470
♪ And still the distance
from your house ♪
1913
01:29:50,820 --> 01:29:53,170
♪ To my front door
1914
01:29:53,300 --> 01:29:57,479
♪ It's exactly the same
1915
01:30:16,323 --> 01:30:18,848
♪ You said it's terminal
1916
01:30:20,937 --> 01:30:24,201
♪ The way I clean my sheets
1917
01:30:24,331 --> 01:30:27,770
♪ Such a poetic phrasing
1918
01:30:27,900 --> 01:30:31,164
♪ Don't you know
it's wasted here ♪
1919
01:31:03,936 --> 01:31:07,462
♪ Ba-ba-ba ba-ba ba-ba-ba
1920
01:31:07,592 --> 01:31:11,335
♪ Ba-ba-ba ba-ba ba-ba-ba
1921
01:31:11,466 --> 01:31:15,034
♪ Ba-ba-ba ba-ba ba-ba-ba
1922
01:31:15,165 --> 01:31:17,036
♪ Ba ba-da-da
1923
01:31:17,167 --> 01:31:21,127
♪ Ba ba da
1924
01:31:21,258 --> 01:31:25,044
♪ And on the 4th of July
1925
01:31:25,175 --> 01:31:28,874
♪ We both looked to the sky
1926
01:31:29,005 --> 01:31:33,226
♪ And watched the stars
exploding ♪
1927
01:31:33,357 --> 01:31:37,796
♪ All around our heads
1928
01:31:37,927 --> 01:31:41,713
♪ And on the 4th of July
1929
01:31:41,844 --> 01:31:45,543
♪ We both looked to the sky
1930
01:31:45,674 --> 01:31:49,591
♪ And watched the stars
exploding ♪
1931
01:31:49,721 --> 01:31:55,422
♪ All around our heads
1932
01:31:55,553 --> 01:32:00,166
♪ And still the distance
from your house ♪
1933
01:32:00,297 --> 01:32:02,995
♪ To my front door
1934
01:32:03,126 --> 01:32:05,824
♪ Well, don't you know it's
1935
01:32:05,955 --> 01:32:09,611
♪ It's exactly the same