1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:09,879 --> 00:00:12,186 [DOG PANTING] 4 00:00:12,316 --> 00:00:14,362 [BEEP] 5 00:00:14,492 --> 00:00:16,016 [SWITCH CLICKS] 6 00:00:16,146 --> 00:00:16,886 [DOG PANTING, PROJECTOR HUMMING] 7 00:00:40,649 --> 00:00:42,346 JAY: So why the long face, Horse? 8 00:00:42,477 --> 00:00:43,695 [HOLDEN SIGHS] 9 00:00:43,826 --> 00:00:44,174 HOLDEN: I'm just having a little girl trouble. 10 00:00:44,305 --> 00:00:46,002 Bitch pressing charges? 11 00:00:46,133 --> 00:00:47,003 JAY: I get that a lot. 12 00:00:48,787 --> 00:00:51,660 NARRATOR: Holden McNeil was set in his ways. 13 00:00:51,790 --> 00:00:55,664 The way he worked, the way he lived, 14 00:00:55,794 --> 00:00:59,059 and the way he thought love should be. 15 00:00:59,189 --> 00:01:03,019 But then she showed up. 16 00:01:03,150 --> 00:01:07,458 Miramax Films presents a comedy that tells it like it feels. 17 00:01:07,589 --> 00:01:08,938 She's been around and seen things 18 00:01:09,069 --> 00:01:10,418 we've only read about in books. 19 00:01:10,548 --> 00:01:12,942 - What'd you do last night? - Got lucky. 20 00:01:13,073 --> 00:01:15,640 NARRATOR: "Chasing Amy." 21 00:01:15,771 --> 00:01:18,556 And now, at last, we come to what at least I think 22 00:01:18,687 --> 00:01:20,471 is the only good movie on this week's show. 23 00:01:20,602 --> 00:01:22,169 It's called "Chasing Amy," 24 00:01:22,299 --> 00:01:23,822 and it was written and directed by Kevin Smith, 25 00:01:23,953 --> 00:01:25,911 who made a name for himself a few years ago 26 00:01:26,042 --> 00:01:28,088 with a very low budget comedy named "Clerks." 27 00:01:28,218 --> 00:01:29,611 Now he's back with "Chasing Amy," 28 00:01:29,741 --> 00:01:31,308 which is a terrific film-- 29 00:01:31,439 --> 00:01:33,136 well written, well acted-- about a love affair 30 00:01:33,267 --> 00:01:35,095 that forces a comic book artist 31 00:01:35,225 --> 00:01:37,097 to question all of his ideas about himself. 32 00:01:46,236 --> 00:01:49,021 RODGERS: Do you understand why I love this movie so much? 33 00:01:49,152 --> 00:01:49,500 No. 34 00:01:49,631 --> 00:01:51,067 [LAUGHS] 35 00:01:51,198 --> 00:01:52,764 Give us a quick, you know, thumbnail sketch of the plot. 36 00:01:52,895 --> 00:01:55,680 It's about a guy who falls in love with a lesbian. 37 00:01:55,811 --> 00:01:57,029 I love you. 38 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:58,770 Finds out she's had heterosexual relationships 39 00:01:58,901 --> 00:02:00,468 and can't deal with that. 40 00:02:00,598 --> 00:02:02,165 I want us to be something that we can't be. 41 00:02:02,296 --> 00:02:03,688 And what's that? 42 00:02:04,863 --> 00:02:06,213 A normal couple. 43 00:02:06,343 --> 00:02:08,911 In the late '90s, it was still an occasion 44 00:02:09,041 --> 00:02:12,088 to have a really big queer film come out. 45 00:02:12,219 --> 00:02:13,916 And this was big. 46 00:02:14,046 --> 00:02:16,919 Ultimately, it made $12 million in the box office. 47 00:02:17,049 --> 00:02:18,094 [CHEERS AND APPLAUSE] 48 00:02:19,965 --> 00:02:22,446 There was Hollywood, and then there's independent film. 49 00:02:22,577 --> 00:02:24,579 And when an independent film broke through, 50 00:02:24,709 --> 00:02:26,450 everybody noticed. 51 00:02:26,581 --> 00:02:28,322 It's extremely personalized, extremely good. 52 00:02:28,452 --> 00:02:30,106 I've never really seen a romantic comedy 53 00:02:30,237 --> 00:02:31,586 like it ever in my life. 54 00:02:31,716 --> 00:02:34,066 It's a well-crafted film that came out 55 00:02:34,197 --> 00:02:37,592 in that great '90s era of indie filmmaking. 56 00:02:37,722 --> 00:02:41,900 Kevin Smith definitely was one of the young kings 57 00:02:42,031 --> 00:02:43,380 of independent film. 58 00:02:43,511 --> 00:02:46,992 "'Chasing Amy' is obviously a personal film for Smith-- 59 00:02:47,123 --> 00:02:49,995 a chance to work through his masculinity issues on screen." 60 00:02:50,126 --> 00:02:52,302 I do know that he's talked about it being based on a relationship 61 00:02:52,433 --> 00:02:53,956 that he had at one time. 62 00:02:54,086 --> 00:02:55,262 JAY LENO: You got this Golden Globe nomination. 63 00:02:55,392 --> 00:02:57,177 - Are you excited? - I am. I'm very excited. 64 00:02:57,307 --> 00:02:59,701 If I wrote about real life, "Chasing Amy" would be all about 65 00:02:59,831 --> 00:03:01,224 the fact that I couldn't stand that 66 00:03:01,355 --> 00:03:03,095 my girlfriend at the time had went to Bali 67 00:03:03,226 --> 00:03:04,749 when she was younger and I didn't. 68 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,143 I think he was being true to himself 69 00:03:07,274 --> 00:03:11,365 and being as true as he could to the the subject matter. 70 00:03:11,495 --> 00:03:15,325 It directly addressed issues of intersectionality, 71 00:03:15,456 --> 00:03:17,240 sociopolitical issues, 72 00:03:17,371 --> 00:03:20,156 and really looked at identity politics 73 00:03:20,287 --> 00:03:22,158 in a way that most films hadn't. 74 00:03:22,289 --> 00:03:24,726 It's oh-so acceptable to be a gay girl nowadays. 75 00:03:24,856 --> 00:03:26,249 People think it's cute. 76 00:03:27,032 --> 00:03:27,990 RODGERS: Do you find the film to be authentic 77 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:29,992 to the LGBTQ community? 78 00:03:30,122 --> 00:03:34,126 No, I find it to be authentic to the straight white dude 79 00:03:34,257 --> 00:03:37,782 who happens to fall for a queer woman community. 80 00:03:37,913 --> 00:03:39,349 [LAUGHS] 81 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,700 TURNER: This is a movie about a woman who is a lesbian 82 00:03:42,831 --> 00:03:44,572 and decides to be with a man. 83 00:03:44,702 --> 00:03:49,359 I'm like, "You know, that's, uh, gonna be controversial." 84 00:03:49,490 --> 00:03:52,101 There are some people that inevitably are going to see 85 00:03:52,232 --> 00:03:54,408 a lesbian no longer being a lesbian 86 00:03:54,538 --> 00:03:57,628 by meeting "the right man" and rejecting that entirely. 87 00:03:57,759 --> 00:03:59,630 Set aside the notion that any lesbian 88 00:03:59,761 --> 00:04:02,546 can be magically turned straight if the right guy comes along. 89 00:04:02,677 --> 00:04:04,548 What's extra offensive in hindsight 90 00:04:04,679 --> 00:04:07,072 is the idea that that guy would be Ben Affleck. 91 00:04:08,639 --> 00:04:09,945 When I first saw the movie, like, 92 00:04:10,075 --> 00:04:11,729 I thought it was kind of dumb but harmless. 93 00:04:11,860 --> 00:04:13,514 That would have been excellent for the poster tagline-- 94 00:04:13,644 --> 00:04:14,689 Dumb but Harmless. 95 00:04:14,819 --> 00:04:18,388 There were some people in the community 96 00:04:18,519 --> 00:04:22,871 who did not appreciate the ambiguity, the subtlety. 97 00:04:23,001 --> 00:04:25,482 There were a lot of question marks in that film. 98 00:04:25,613 --> 00:04:27,528 I mean, it's not rocket science. 99 00:04:27,658 --> 00:04:31,140 A straight man tells a lesbian story, 100 00:04:31,271 --> 00:04:33,708 and now everyone's paying attention. 101 00:04:33,838 --> 00:04:36,580 RODGERS: I hear the word problematic with "Chasing Amy" a lot. 102 00:04:36,711 --> 00:04:39,191 Is it bad that it's problematic? 103 00:04:39,322 --> 00:04:41,498 Is it okay that it's kind of divisive? 104 00:04:41,629 --> 00:04:43,239 Did you see that? Your dyke-courting ass 105 00:04:43,370 --> 00:04:45,067 just got me scored on. 106 00:04:45,197 --> 00:04:47,809 Sometimes something that's problematic can still mean 107 00:04:47,939 --> 00:04:49,376 a lot in your development. 108 00:04:49,506 --> 00:04:52,248 It was, I think, a brave film at the time 109 00:04:52,379 --> 00:04:55,686 to portray somebody who's... fluid. 110 00:04:55,817 --> 00:04:58,254 I know that there's a lot of controversy 111 00:04:58,385 --> 00:05:01,605 about these older gay films, but at the same time, 112 00:05:01,736 --> 00:05:04,608 like, it meant something to you as a filmmaker 113 00:05:04,739 --> 00:05:08,830 and, like, that is, like, an undeniable thing. 114 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,528 I do have more respect for this film than I thought I did, 115 00:05:11,659 --> 00:05:16,185 less because of how it's put together 116 00:05:16,316 --> 00:05:17,795 and more for what it was able to do 117 00:05:17,926 --> 00:05:19,057 for people like you. 118 00:05:19,188 --> 00:05:20,537 I do have a question-- 119 00:05:20,668 --> 00:05:22,800 why do you want to make this movie? 120 00:05:30,199 --> 00:05:31,287 [TYPING] 121 00:05:33,985 --> 00:05:34,682 [MOUSE CLICKS] 122 00:05:39,426 --> 00:05:40,905 When I was 12, 123 00:05:41,036 --> 00:05:44,953 I exclusively wanted to watch Ben Affleck movies. 124 00:05:52,482 --> 00:05:56,573 It's an incredibly specific thing for a child to demand. 125 00:05:56,704 --> 00:05:58,053 But Ben Affleck was the star 126 00:05:58,183 --> 00:06:00,664 of the 2003 superhero film "Daredevil." 127 00:06:00,795 --> 00:06:03,885 Naturally, I was in love with him. 128 00:06:04,015 --> 00:06:06,235 One day, while raiding my family's movie collection, 129 00:06:06,366 --> 00:06:09,673 I came across an unfamiliar box with Mr. Affleck's face on it. 130 00:06:09,804 --> 00:06:11,719 The title read "Chasing Amy." 131 00:06:11,849 --> 00:06:13,982 "Chasing Amy" had everything that I wanted. 132 00:06:14,112 --> 00:06:15,549 The characters were comic book writers. 133 00:06:15,679 --> 00:06:17,551 They spoke in romantic monologues 134 00:06:17,681 --> 00:06:20,249 about the kind of love that only seemed to exist in movies. 135 00:06:20,380 --> 00:06:22,425 And there were openly queer people, 136 00:06:22,556 --> 00:06:25,472 and I didn't realize what a big deal that would be for me. 137 00:06:25,602 --> 00:06:27,822 Around this time, I entered junior high school. 138 00:06:29,606 --> 00:06:33,088 Young me did not have it particularly easy. 139 00:06:33,218 --> 00:06:34,785 While I was lucky to have a few people 140 00:06:34,916 --> 00:06:37,309 that I could call friends, I often felt isolated, 141 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:39,616 but wasn't really sure why. 142 00:06:39,747 --> 00:06:43,098 In one violent incident in the seventh grade, 143 00:06:43,228 --> 00:06:45,666 a group of boys surrounded me as I waited for my mom 144 00:06:45,796 --> 00:06:47,668 to pick me up after school. 145 00:06:47,798 --> 00:06:49,800 I regarded these kids as my friends. 146 00:06:49,931 --> 00:06:53,587 So imagine my shock when they started pushing me, 147 00:06:53,717 --> 00:06:55,458 threatening me and hurling words 148 00:06:55,589 --> 00:06:59,723 like "dyke," "queer," and "faggot" at me. 149 00:06:59,854 --> 00:07:02,334 I had never heard the word "dyke" before in my life. 150 00:07:03,814 --> 00:07:05,163 This wasn't the last time 151 00:07:05,294 --> 00:07:07,514 I'd encounter homophobia as an adolescent, 152 00:07:07,644 --> 00:07:09,037 but it was the first time 153 00:07:09,167 --> 00:07:11,909 I realized just how I was being othered. 154 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:13,955 See, it sucks when everyone else 155 00:07:14,085 --> 00:07:16,610 knows you're queer before you do, 156 00:07:16,740 --> 00:07:17,872 because then you don't have anything 157 00:07:18,002 --> 00:07:20,657 to protect yourself with. 158 00:07:20,788 --> 00:07:23,704 These young men weaponized my perceived sexuality against me. 159 00:07:23,834 --> 00:07:26,097 Back then, there were virtually no consequences 160 00:07:26,228 --> 00:07:28,317 for homophobic bullying in Kansas. 161 00:07:28,448 --> 00:07:31,189 But I did have this one movie. 162 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,062 I had a movie where the gay and lesbian characters were good. 163 00:07:34,192 --> 00:07:37,848 They were intelligent and funny and out. 164 00:07:37,979 --> 00:07:40,547 They were able to live as their authentic selves. 165 00:07:40,677 --> 00:07:42,592 And you know what? The spirit of "Chasing Amy" 166 00:07:42,723 --> 00:07:45,639 kept me alive for years to come, despite the suicidal thoughts 167 00:07:45,769 --> 00:07:47,858 that began to permeate from the trauma 168 00:07:47,989 --> 00:07:50,774 I was continuously experiencing at school. 169 00:07:50,905 --> 00:07:52,994 No matter what I was dealing with, 170 00:07:53,124 --> 00:07:55,083 I had this one movie to bring me solace. 171 00:07:56,824 --> 00:08:00,523 I once kept this movie in my DVD player for a month. 172 00:08:00,654 --> 00:08:05,354 I would watch it at least once a day every day for 30 days. 173 00:08:05,485 --> 00:08:07,443 [LAUGHTER] 174 00:08:07,574 --> 00:08:09,445 Now, to be fair, 175 00:08:09,576 --> 00:08:12,448 I didn't know that there were other gay movies. 176 00:08:12,579 --> 00:08:14,624 [LAUGHTER] 177 00:08:14,755 --> 00:08:16,887 Nowadays, I'm a filmmaker, 178 00:08:17,018 --> 00:08:19,194 and because I can't seem to shake this topic, 179 00:08:19,324 --> 00:08:21,631 I'm now directing a project 180 00:08:21,762 --> 00:08:24,721 about the legacy of "Chasing Amy" as an LGBTQ film. 181 00:08:24,852 --> 00:08:27,245 It's by far the most dramatic way of saying "thank you" 182 00:08:27,376 --> 00:08:28,551 I could possibly think of. 183 00:08:28,682 --> 00:08:30,335 Thank you. 184 00:08:30,466 --> 00:08:34,122 [CHEERS AND APPLAUSE] 185 00:08:46,395 --> 00:08:48,136 RODGERS: The whole store, like, looks the same. 186 00:08:48,266 --> 00:08:50,007 It feels like I'm stepping into, like, a time capsule 187 00:08:50,138 --> 00:08:51,531 - in the best way. - Yeah. 188 00:08:51,661 --> 00:08:53,663 You know, all the racks are the same. 189 00:08:53,794 --> 00:08:55,622 I don't think the T-shirts or the books were over there. 190 00:08:55,752 --> 00:08:56,492 No. 191 00:08:56,623 --> 00:08:58,755 And over here was cassingles, 192 00:08:58,886 --> 00:09:02,106 which kind of dates it pretty badly, but, uh... 193 00:09:02,237 --> 00:09:03,847 But the exterior, the carpet. 194 00:09:03,978 --> 00:09:05,588 Oh, yeah. It really feels like 195 00:09:05,719 --> 00:09:07,459 I watched the movie and then just, like, walked over here. 196 00:09:07,590 --> 00:09:08,983 Maybe what's really troubling you 197 00:09:09,113 --> 00:09:11,289 is that your fragile fantasy might not be true. 198 00:09:11,420 --> 00:09:12,421 You remember that, 199 00:09:12,552 --> 00:09:14,510 ♪ Never will forget this, never ♪ 200 00:09:14,641 --> 00:09:17,121 I want to get the rights to that song 201 00:09:17,252 --> 00:09:20,124 and just, like, do a montage of this whole day. 202 00:09:20,255 --> 00:09:22,823 ♪ Never will forget this, I 203 00:09:22,953 --> 00:09:25,129 ♪ Never will, never will, never will forget this ♪ 204 00:09:25,260 --> 00:09:27,828 ♪ Never will forget this, I 205 00:09:27,958 --> 00:09:30,395 ♪ Never will, never will, never will forget this ♪ 206 00:09:30,526 --> 00:09:32,920 ♪ Never will forget this, I 207 00:09:33,050 --> 00:09:35,009 ♪ Never will, never will, never will forget this ♪ 208 00:09:40,405 --> 00:09:42,494 Hey. Hey! 209 00:09:45,410 --> 00:09:47,630 ♪ Never will forget this, I 210 00:09:47,761 --> 00:09:49,806 ♪ Never will, never will, never will forget this ♪ 211 00:09:51,286 --> 00:09:52,461 Wow. 212 00:09:56,030 --> 00:09:56,900 I'm a little nervous. 213 00:10:00,512 --> 00:10:01,470 I didn't know what I expected. 214 00:10:01,601 --> 00:10:03,167 I did not expect all this. This is cool. 215 00:10:04,342 --> 00:10:06,040 - Ta da da! - Oh, my. 216 00:10:06,170 --> 00:10:07,302 Oh, my God. 217 00:10:07,432 --> 00:10:09,957 That's the original piece right up there. 218 00:10:10,087 --> 00:10:12,612 Did they ever make, like, a full "Chasing Amy" comic? 219 00:10:12,742 --> 00:10:14,048 Does that exist somewhere? 220 00:10:14,178 --> 00:10:15,397 - No. - Okay. 221 00:10:15,527 --> 00:10:16,659 Just the last page and the cover. 222 00:10:16,790 --> 00:10:18,226 Right. 223 00:10:18,356 --> 00:10:19,967 RODGERS: I feel like I know as much about "Chasing Amy" 224 00:10:20,097 --> 00:10:21,664 without knowing Kevin or actually physically 225 00:10:21,795 --> 00:10:23,535 - being present, and so. - Gotcha. 226 00:10:23,666 --> 00:10:24,972 Everybody else's question in my life is, like, 227 00:10:25,102 --> 00:10:26,364 why are you doing this? 228 00:10:26,495 --> 00:10:27,975 It's to pay tribute to this movie, 229 00:10:28,105 --> 00:10:31,021 but also to see why do LGBTQ people not like this movie 230 00:10:31,152 --> 00:10:32,806 and, like, what makes good representation. 231 00:10:32,936 --> 00:10:35,112 It's an honest movie, if nothing else. 232 00:10:35,243 --> 00:10:37,419 - Yes. - It's shown from-- 233 00:10:37,549 --> 00:10:38,812 from Kevin's point of view. 234 00:10:38,942 --> 00:10:40,770 Seeing that movie, like, I was like, 235 00:10:40,901 --> 00:10:42,293 "Oh, this is an option." 236 00:10:42,424 --> 00:10:44,382 I am gay or I am straight, basically, right? 237 00:10:44,513 --> 00:10:45,340 Yeah. You had one of two options. 238 00:10:45,470 --> 00:10:46,994 Yeah. 239 00:10:47,124 --> 00:10:49,213 Like, and now, more people are coming out today more than ever, 240 00:10:49,344 --> 00:10:51,041 but they're coming out as, like, bisexual/pansexual. 241 00:10:51,172 --> 00:10:54,262 You know, there's been a total shift in the mindset. 242 00:10:54,392 --> 00:10:56,133 And "Chasing Amy" helped me, like, 243 00:10:56,264 --> 00:10:57,787 figure out that, "Oh, that's me." 244 00:10:57,918 --> 00:11:00,790 A lot of people love "Chasing Amy" just for that, 245 00:11:00,921 --> 00:11:02,096 that it was so honest and so raw. 246 00:11:02,226 --> 00:11:03,140 Yeah. 247 00:11:03,271 --> 00:11:04,489 - Do you like the movie? - Love it. 248 00:11:04,620 --> 00:11:05,839 I love all of Kevin's movies, 249 00:11:05,969 --> 00:11:08,102 even the ones that nobody else likes. 250 00:11:57,629 --> 00:12:01,242 [BIRDS CHIRPING] 251 00:12:01,372 --> 00:12:03,679 Holy shit. 252 00:12:03,810 --> 00:12:05,333 I don't even. 253 00:12:05,463 --> 00:12:07,770 What do you even push? 254 00:12:07,901 --> 00:12:10,991 - Uh... I don't know. - BRAD: Knock, I suppose. 255 00:12:11,121 --> 00:12:12,688 All right. 256 00:12:14,821 --> 00:12:17,345 - Oh, wow. Hi. Hi. - Hi. I'm Emily. 257 00:12:17,475 --> 00:12:19,477 Hey, nice to meet you. 258 00:12:19,608 --> 00:12:22,829 This is Brad. Wow. 259 00:12:22,959 --> 00:12:24,874 Holy shit! 260 00:12:26,441 --> 00:12:27,485 [DOOR CLOSES] 261 00:12:27,616 --> 00:12:29,313 This is bonkers. 262 00:12:35,406 --> 00:12:37,060 Hello? Oh, my God. 263 00:12:37,191 --> 00:12:37,931 [LAUGHS, CLAPS] 264 00:12:38,061 --> 00:12:40,411 Oh, my God. How are you? 265 00:12:40,542 --> 00:12:43,806 So good. Welcome to the house that Amy built in many ways. 266 00:12:43,937 --> 00:12:45,460 This is amazing. 267 00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:47,070 She friendly? He friendly? 268 00:12:47,201 --> 00:12:48,768 SMITH: She's very. She's just crippled as hell. 269 00:12:50,639 --> 00:12:53,773 [DOG BARKING] 270 00:12:53,903 --> 00:12:55,992 That's from "Chasing Amy." 271 00:12:56,123 --> 00:12:57,820 SMITH: Chasing Amy was fucking pivotal 272 00:12:57,951 --> 00:12:59,735 because it changed me as a filmmaker, 273 00:12:59,866 --> 00:13:01,128 it changed me as a professional, 274 00:13:01,258 --> 00:13:03,957 it changed me as a human being and stuff. 275 00:13:04,087 --> 00:13:06,916 It is kind of the movie without which nothing else 276 00:13:07,047 --> 00:13:08,526 fucking happens. 277 00:13:08,657 --> 00:13:10,615 I'm just so fucking happy you made that movie. 278 00:13:10,746 --> 00:13:12,574 I mean, it's-- You and me both. 279 00:13:12,704 --> 00:13:14,097 - I mean, I can't-- - [LAUGHS] 280 00:13:14,228 --> 00:13:15,620 I don't want to cry because I'm an ugly crier. 281 00:13:15,751 --> 00:13:17,492 But-- [LAUGHS] You and me both. 282 00:13:17,622 --> 00:13:19,146 [LAUGHTER] 283 00:13:19,276 --> 00:13:21,452 We're both, uh-- I know you cry pretty easily 284 00:13:21,583 --> 00:13:22,366 from the Internet. All the time. 285 00:13:22,497 --> 00:13:23,890 Oh, my God. 286 00:13:24,020 --> 00:13:25,369 I love that you're a dude that, like, 287 00:13:25,500 --> 00:13:26,631 feels his feelings. That dude wouldn't exist 288 00:13:26,762 --> 00:13:28,024 were it not for "Chasing Amy." 289 00:13:28,155 --> 00:13:29,939 Like... "This dude wouldn't exist 290 00:13:30,070 --> 00:13:32,246 if not for 'Chasing Amy.'" [LAUGHS] 291 00:13:32,376 --> 00:13:34,726 That's funny. 292 00:13:34,857 --> 00:13:36,076 [WHOOSH] 293 00:13:36,206 --> 00:13:38,992 [PLANE ENGINE ROARING] 294 00:13:43,083 --> 00:13:45,259 [INDISTINCT CONVERSATIONS] 295 00:13:45,389 --> 00:13:46,695 Where is she at? 296 00:13:50,307 --> 00:13:53,397 She says she's coming out. Where are you? 297 00:13:59,882 --> 00:14:01,579 Anyway, I'm more excited. I'm not nervous. 298 00:14:01,710 --> 00:14:03,712 And I know I didn't forget how to kiss, but... 299 00:14:03,843 --> 00:14:12,721 [♪] 300 00:14:13,896 --> 00:14:15,593 I got you these flowers. 301 00:14:18,074 --> 00:14:20,772 [INDISTINCT CONVERSATION] 302 00:14:20,903 --> 00:14:23,297 WOMAN 1: To your right, sorry. To your right. 303 00:14:23,427 --> 00:14:25,429 That is just too-- that's too far over. 304 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,389 That's too far. That's still too far. 305 00:14:28,519 --> 00:14:30,043 It's off center. It looks weird. 306 00:14:30,173 --> 00:14:31,479 Oh, my God. Filmmakers. 307 00:14:31,609 --> 00:14:33,046 - Is that fine? - That should be okay. 308 00:14:33,176 --> 00:14:35,700 Okay. If not, I can always take it off. 309 00:14:35,831 --> 00:14:37,224 - The key to my heart? - Yeah. 310 00:14:37,354 --> 00:14:39,095 You're gonna take it off? 311 00:14:39,226 --> 00:14:40,836 You could have given me an engagement ring already. 312 00:14:40,967 --> 00:14:41,924 [SLAPS LEG] 313 00:14:42,055 --> 00:14:43,012 Yep. 314 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:46,929 I'm Riley, and I'm Sav's girlfriend. 315 00:14:49,453 --> 00:14:51,064 Yeah! Finger cuffs. 316 00:14:51,194 --> 00:14:54,806 We've known each other for, like, seven years maybe. 317 00:14:54,937 --> 00:14:57,505 That's gay. [CHUCKLES] 318 00:14:57,635 --> 00:15:01,335 We met each other when we were very little. 319 00:15:01,901 --> 00:15:03,206 Okay. 320 00:15:03,337 --> 00:15:05,382 It feels like a long time ago. 321 00:15:05,513 --> 00:15:07,428 When I was 17 and you were 18. 322 00:15:08,646 --> 00:15:10,126 - We met online. - Whoo! 323 00:15:10,257 --> 00:15:11,388 On Tumblr. 324 00:15:11,519 --> 00:15:12,215 You got to move your shoulders, too, though. 325 00:15:12,346 --> 00:15:13,869 - I did. - You did it terribly. 326 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,567 [LAUGHS] 327 00:15:16,698 --> 00:15:19,831 We were nerdy teenagers that liked "Glee," 328 00:15:19,962 --> 00:15:20,832 and we became friends. 329 00:15:20,963 --> 00:15:23,966 Oh, oh, and we bonded over your lies. 330 00:15:24,097 --> 00:15:25,489 - My lies? - Yeah. 331 00:15:25,620 --> 00:15:28,405 I was like, "Oh, my God, I love 'Lord of the Rings.'" 332 00:15:28,536 --> 00:15:29,624 And you were like, "Oh my God, 333 00:15:29,754 --> 00:15:31,104 I love 'Lord of the Rings,' too." 334 00:15:31,234 --> 00:15:32,757 Little did I know, you had no idea 335 00:15:32,888 --> 00:15:34,585 what you were talking about. 336 00:15:34,716 --> 00:15:36,674 No, I really liked you and wanted to be your friend, 337 00:15:36,805 --> 00:15:38,981 so I lied about liking "Lord of the Rings." 338 00:15:39,112 --> 00:15:42,245 This whole relationship is based on a lie. 339 00:15:42,376 --> 00:15:45,161 Yeah, you were like, "Oh, I want to name my dog 'Gimli.'" 340 00:15:45,292 --> 00:15:47,859 And I was like, "Gimli?" And you were like, 341 00:15:47,990 --> 00:15:49,905 "From 'Lord of the Rings.'" Everybody knows that. 342 00:15:50,036 --> 00:15:52,212 I was like, "Oh, shit. I've been caught." 343 00:15:52,342 --> 00:15:54,083 I wanted you to be my friend really bad, 344 00:15:54,214 --> 00:15:55,911 and I thought that if I didn't like "Lord of the Rings," 345 00:15:56,042 --> 00:15:57,739 you wouldn't want to talk to me anymore. 346 00:15:57,869 --> 00:15:59,610 We followed each other, 347 00:15:59,741 --> 00:16:03,310 and one day, we started messaging each other on the-- 348 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:05,138 on the website, and then one day, 349 00:16:05,268 --> 00:16:07,879 I was going to be away from my computer 350 00:16:08,010 --> 00:16:09,925 and I just couldn't stand the thought 351 00:16:10,056 --> 00:16:12,058 of not talking to you for that long. 352 00:16:12,188 --> 00:16:14,277 I think it was, like, a long weekend or something, 353 00:16:14,408 --> 00:16:16,714 and I was just like, "Okay, this is a little weird, 354 00:16:16,845 --> 00:16:19,979 but, you know, can you give me your number? 355 00:16:20,109 --> 00:16:22,024 I'll give you mine, and we can text." 356 00:16:22,155 --> 00:16:24,592 That was, like, a kind of a crucial step 357 00:16:24,722 --> 00:16:27,464 to our relationship-- as friends, at this point. 358 00:16:27,595 --> 00:16:28,596 Check this out. 359 00:16:28,726 --> 00:16:29,989 There's a "Chasing Amy" hat down there. 360 00:16:30,119 --> 00:16:31,816 - Yeah, I see it. - And then there's a-- 361 00:16:31,947 --> 00:16:33,557 RODGERS: I think that's French? 362 00:16:33,688 --> 00:16:35,820 - A French VHS of "Chasing Amy." - RILEY: Yeah. 363 00:16:42,131 --> 00:16:43,393 And I told Kevin, I was like, 364 00:16:43,524 --> 00:16:44,873 "Oh, man, you have the hat at the store." 365 00:16:45,004 --> 00:16:46,222 And he's like, "Do you want it?" 366 00:16:46,353 --> 00:16:47,528 And I was like, "Kevin, that's your hat. 367 00:16:47,658 --> 00:16:48,659 I don't need it." [LAUGHS] 368 00:16:48,790 --> 00:16:50,009 Why didn't you say yes? 369 00:16:50,139 --> 00:16:52,185 If Kevin wants to get me a hat, he can get me a hat, 370 00:16:52,315 --> 00:16:53,708 but I'm not going to take the one from the store. 371 00:16:55,753 --> 00:16:57,494 Get on it, Kevin. 372 00:16:59,714 --> 00:17:02,456 Lovely. Lovely. 373 00:17:02,586 --> 00:17:03,805 RODGERS: That's just me. 374 00:17:03,935 --> 00:17:05,459 Fucking look at that. 375 00:17:05,589 --> 00:17:07,548 - Are you in it? - RODGERS: Yeah. 376 00:17:07,678 --> 00:17:09,202 I think that's smart. 377 00:17:09,332 --> 00:17:12,031 I mean, I'm not thrilled about it, necessarily. 378 00:17:12,161 --> 00:17:13,336 No, I think that's smart. 379 00:17:13,467 --> 00:17:16,600 But-- You had me at "Hello." 380 00:17:16,731 --> 00:17:18,994 - All right, sound. - MAN 1: Rolling. 381 00:17:19,125 --> 00:17:20,996 - Cameras. - MAN 1: Speed. Speed. 382 00:17:21,127 --> 00:17:23,477 That speed? Okay. 383 00:17:23,607 --> 00:17:25,131 K1, Take 1-- soft sticks. 384 00:17:26,784 --> 00:17:28,395 Can you take me through the genesis 385 00:17:28,525 --> 00:17:31,137 of creating "Chasing Amy?" 386 00:17:31,267 --> 00:17:32,964 "Chasing Amy" is a weird bouillabaisse, right? 387 00:17:33,095 --> 00:17:36,272 Like, for years, I've told a version of, you know, 388 00:17:36,403 --> 00:17:39,058 why that movie happened, and they're all true, 389 00:17:39,188 --> 00:17:44,150 but it's more like all of them rather than any one single path. 390 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,718 Donald, my brother, being gay plays a big part 391 00:17:47,849 --> 00:17:50,112 in what "Chasing Amy" becomes. 392 00:17:50,243 --> 00:17:53,072 When I told my brother I wanted to be a filmmaker, I said, 393 00:17:53,202 --> 00:17:54,464 "What about movies? 394 00:17:54,595 --> 00:17:56,684 It must be irritating to sit through a fucking movie 395 00:17:56,814 --> 00:17:57,989 where two people that you don't identify with, like, 396 00:17:58,120 --> 00:17:59,208 fucking fall in love." 397 00:17:59,339 --> 00:18:00,818 And he goes, "Well, I can identify with love." 398 00:18:00,949 --> 00:18:02,864 You had me at "Hello." 399 00:18:02,994 --> 00:18:06,389 "But yeah, it's weird that 99% of the things that I go out 400 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,523 to see are about straight people." 401 00:18:09,653 --> 00:18:11,568 I committed in my head in that moment, 402 00:18:11,699 --> 00:18:13,570 I'm always going to fucking try to whip in 403 00:18:13,701 --> 00:18:16,660 a little gay content for Don. Then I got Scott Mosier, 404 00:18:16,791 --> 00:18:18,401 and this has everything to do with where 405 00:18:18,532 --> 00:18:19,663 "Chasing Amy" comes from. 406 00:18:19,794 --> 00:18:21,752 When we met in film school, we were just like, 407 00:18:21,883 --> 00:18:23,885 "Hey, like, you write a movie, I'll write a movie, 408 00:18:24,015 --> 00:18:26,061 and then we'll go make it." I wrote some piece of shit, 409 00:18:26,192 --> 00:18:28,063 and he wrote "Clerks." 410 00:18:28,194 --> 00:18:30,935 So I finished "Clerks" first, and he came down and kind of 411 00:18:31,066 --> 00:18:34,113 got trapped into the role of de facto producer. 412 00:18:37,986 --> 00:18:39,553 To go back to the very, very beginning, 413 00:18:39,683 --> 00:18:41,294 we make "Clerks" 414 00:18:41,424 --> 00:18:42,991 and we get into Sundance, 415 00:18:43,122 --> 00:18:46,081 and John Pierson is repping the film, 416 00:18:46,212 --> 00:18:48,866 and he's also repping a film called "Go Fish," 417 00:18:48,997 --> 00:18:51,521 which was written by Guinevere Turner 418 00:18:51,652 --> 00:18:53,523 and directed by Rose Troche. 419 00:18:58,441 --> 00:19:00,878 My name is Guinevere Turner. 420 00:19:01,009 --> 00:19:06,232 I am a screenwriter, a filmmaker, an actress, 421 00:19:06,362 --> 00:19:09,409 a lover, a warrior, and a warrior princess. 422 00:19:11,106 --> 00:19:12,368 Everyone was looking forward to "Go Fish." 423 00:19:12,499 --> 00:19:13,891 Everyone knew about the avant garde, 424 00:19:14,022 --> 00:19:15,763 black and white lesbian movie and stuff. 425 00:19:15,893 --> 00:19:18,896 Our movie was-- like, there was no buzz whatsoever. 426 00:19:19,027 --> 00:19:23,249 "Clerks" and "Go Fish," which was my first film, are-- 427 00:19:23,379 --> 00:19:25,164 They're basically, like, siblings 428 00:19:25,294 --> 00:19:27,992 in the indie film world of the '90s. 429 00:19:28,123 --> 00:19:29,820 They are black and white. 430 00:19:29,951 --> 00:19:33,041 They are endless chatter that only the people 431 00:19:33,172 --> 00:19:35,565 who are being represented would care about. 432 00:19:35,696 --> 00:19:38,002 It's all about everybody being on your side, as well. 433 00:19:38,133 --> 00:19:40,048 It's not only about romance. 434 00:19:40,179 --> 00:19:42,093 It's about having good friends, and it's about having people 435 00:19:42,224 --> 00:19:43,965 rooting for you, you know? 436 00:19:44,095 --> 00:19:45,532 And yeah, those are things that-- those are-- I think 437 00:19:45,662 --> 00:19:47,403 that's what makes it a universal film. 438 00:19:47,534 --> 00:19:52,974 "Go Fish" comes out of a very instinctive need to be, like, 439 00:19:53,104 --> 00:19:55,194 "What the fuck?" 440 00:19:55,324 --> 00:19:57,457 Where are we in lesbian movies? 441 00:19:57,587 --> 00:19:59,676 We weren't even outraged, we were so young. 442 00:19:59,807 --> 00:20:03,506 We were confused about, like, why haven't we seen ourselves? 443 00:20:03,637 --> 00:20:05,378 The girls were on fire because their movie 444 00:20:05,508 --> 00:20:07,641 was playing long before ours and stuff. 445 00:20:07,771 --> 00:20:10,818 So we started hanging out with them there. 446 00:20:10,948 --> 00:20:13,255 But, you know, Scott's, like, funny and charming-- 447 00:20:13,386 --> 00:20:15,475 like, way more funny and charming than me, to be honest. 448 00:20:15,605 --> 00:20:19,305 And so him and Gwen, like, hit it off instantly. 449 00:20:19,435 --> 00:20:24,484 I became incredibly smitten or sort of, 450 00:20:24,614 --> 00:20:27,574 like, enthralled with Guinevere Turner. 451 00:20:27,704 --> 00:20:31,491 I just developed what I can only call 452 00:20:31,621 --> 00:20:34,494 a romantic friendship with Scott Mosier, 453 00:20:34,624 --> 00:20:39,238 who was just-- is just a lovely person. 454 00:20:39,368 --> 00:20:44,330 Like, Kevin is a smart ass, asshole, wonderful fuck face. 455 00:20:44,460 --> 00:20:47,637 Scott Mosier is the yin to that yang. 456 00:20:47,768 --> 00:20:49,944 He'd go up to the city and hang out with Gwen, 457 00:20:50,074 --> 00:20:51,554 and Gwen would come down to New Jersey 458 00:20:51,685 --> 00:20:52,816 and hang out with Scott. 459 00:20:52,947 --> 00:20:54,557 They would just go, like, fuck off. 460 00:20:54,688 --> 00:20:56,820 And then they'd hang out in Scott's room with, like, 461 00:20:56,951 --> 00:20:58,996 the door closed and, you know... 462 00:20:59,127 --> 00:21:01,172 This girl is gay. 463 00:21:01,303 --> 00:21:04,915 We were in this moment where we had all 464 00:21:05,046 --> 00:21:10,530 just become filmmakers of note while not expecting it at all. 465 00:21:10,660 --> 00:21:15,274 And I just spent a lot of time with Mosier. 466 00:21:15,404 --> 00:21:17,276 I just loved him. 467 00:21:17,406 --> 00:21:20,540 Part of "Chasing Amy" comes from me watching that and going, 468 00:21:20,670 --> 00:21:22,803 "You should do a movie." I literally said to Scott, 469 00:21:22,933 --> 00:21:25,936 "You should write a movie about this shit." 470 00:21:26,067 --> 00:21:27,547 In the moment he said it, 471 00:21:27,677 --> 00:21:29,244 I was like, "I don't even know what it is." 472 00:21:29,375 --> 00:21:32,029 Like, I had no clarity about what, like-- 473 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:33,683 I don't even know what the story was. 474 00:21:33,814 --> 00:21:35,294 I'd sort of expressed how I felt, 475 00:21:35,424 --> 00:21:37,600 and I knew how she felt, and I knew who she was, 476 00:21:37,731 --> 00:21:41,082 so by sort of laying all the cards on the table, 477 00:21:41,212 --> 00:21:42,605 I think it actually is the reason 478 00:21:42,736 --> 00:21:45,391 why we had this sort of romantic friendship. 479 00:21:47,262 --> 00:21:49,438 - I love you. - I love you, too. 480 00:21:49,569 --> 00:21:51,571 - This is really cool. - What? 481 00:21:51,701 --> 00:21:53,399 This park is awesome. This place is awesome. 482 00:21:53,529 --> 00:21:55,183 Being here with you is awesome. 483 00:21:55,314 --> 00:21:57,490 I don't remember exactly the first time I saw your face. 484 00:21:57,620 --> 00:21:59,492 It was probably pretty early on. 485 00:21:59,622 --> 00:22:03,713 Being able to put a face to this-- 486 00:22:03,844 --> 00:22:08,239 like, best friend that I kept in my pocket was amazing. 487 00:22:08,370 --> 00:22:10,372 And then I heard your voice and I was like, 488 00:22:10,503 --> 00:22:12,679 "That is the sexiest voice 489 00:22:12,809 --> 00:22:15,986 I've ever heard in my entire life." 490 00:22:16,117 --> 00:22:17,814 I'm always self-conscious of being on camera, so-- 491 00:22:17,945 --> 00:22:19,903 but I'm way more self-conscious when you're here, though, 492 00:22:20,034 --> 00:22:21,557 - for some reason. - Why? 493 00:22:21,688 --> 00:22:23,646 I don't know, 'cause I think our relationship 494 00:22:23,777 --> 00:22:25,431 is pretty private. 495 00:22:25,561 --> 00:22:27,389 I like you, Holden. 496 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,435 I haven't liked a man in a long time, 497 00:22:29,565 --> 00:22:32,133 and I want you to feel comfortable with me 498 00:22:32,263 --> 00:22:34,657 because I'd really like us to be friends. 499 00:22:34,788 --> 00:22:39,706 So part of it was Scott and Gwen going like, "Man, 500 00:22:39,836 --> 00:22:41,272 like, fucking, what a great story. 501 00:22:41,403 --> 00:22:42,665 The guy falls in love with a lesbian. 502 00:22:42,796 --> 00:22:45,276 You should write that as a movie. No? I'll do it." 503 00:22:51,021 --> 00:22:52,153 It's kind of weird being in a place 504 00:22:52,283 --> 00:22:53,241 where, like... 505 00:22:55,417 --> 00:22:56,766 a bunch of stuff, like, changed your life. 506 00:22:56,897 --> 00:22:58,289 You know, like, the fact that, like, 507 00:22:58,420 --> 00:23:00,814 "Clerks" happened made "Chasing Amy" happen. 508 00:23:00,944 --> 00:23:03,556 I don't feel, like, transformed emotionally or anything, 509 00:23:03,686 --> 00:23:06,820 but it's cool to, like, come to a place 510 00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:11,390 where my life was weirdly affected in a positive way. 511 00:23:17,265 --> 00:23:19,006 All right, let's go. 512 00:23:24,141 --> 00:23:27,014 SMITH: "Clerks" began my career. "Mallrats" killed my career. 513 00:23:27,144 --> 00:23:29,364 So you got me needing to do something to stay 514 00:23:29,495 --> 00:23:31,018 in this business, or else we were out. 515 00:23:31,148 --> 00:23:33,629 That's a big part of where that movie comes from. 516 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:34,891 And then, of course, Joey. 517 00:23:35,022 --> 00:23:37,720 Holden, Banky, this pile of PMS 518 00:23:37,851 --> 00:23:39,200 is Alyssa Jones. 519 00:23:39,330 --> 00:23:44,379 The character of Alyssa is actually a confluence of me, 520 00:23:44,510 --> 00:23:48,557 his only lesbian friend, and Joey, 521 00:23:48,688 --> 00:23:52,518 who he met and fell in love with on the set of "Mallrats." 522 00:23:52,648 --> 00:23:54,171 My next guest is a very talented actress 523 00:23:54,302 --> 00:23:55,912 who's been getting great reviews for her role 524 00:23:56,043 --> 00:23:58,567 in the film "Chasing Amy." It's in theaters right now. 525 00:23:58,698 --> 00:24:01,222 Please welcome Joey Lauren Adams. 526 00:24:01,352 --> 00:24:04,443 [CHEERS AND APPLAUSE] 527 00:24:04,965 --> 00:24:06,749 SMITH: "Chasing Amy" without Joey would have been 528 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,056 a soulless husk. 529 00:24:09,186 --> 00:24:12,363 Like, an idea-- Joey and I are in this relationship, 530 00:24:12,494 --> 00:24:14,017 and then we're starting to have these issues, 531 00:24:14,148 --> 00:24:16,019 that becomes more interesting to me, where I'm like, 532 00:24:16,150 --> 00:24:18,892 "Well, maybe that should be what the movie's about." 533 00:24:19,022 --> 00:24:21,938 So maybe the idea is a guy falls in love with a lesbian, 534 00:24:22,069 --> 00:24:23,897 but like, what trips him up is not, like, 535 00:24:24,027 --> 00:24:25,333 that he's fallen in love with a lesbian. 536 00:24:25,464 --> 00:24:27,640 What trips him up is, like, at one point, 537 00:24:27,770 --> 00:24:29,076 she had sex with a guy. 538 00:24:29,206 --> 00:24:30,599 I was very much like Holden. 539 00:24:30,730 --> 00:24:32,906 I was very insecure about girlfriends past 540 00:24:33,036 --> 00:24:34,298 at the time that I wrote that movie. 541 00:24:34,429 --> 00:24:36,083 I have a very particular... 542 00:24:37,476 --> 00:24:41,741 fondness for Joey Lauren Adams. 543 00:24:41,871 --> 00:24:47,224 She is an Arkansas farm gal and so grounded. 544 00:24:47,355 --> 00:24:48,704 - You come from... - Arkansas. 545 00:24:48,835 --> 00:24:50,967 Arkansas, all right. And you got-- 546 00:24:51,098 --> 00:24:53,448 Is your family there-- are they pretty conservative? 547 00:24:53,579 --> 00:24:55,276 Yeah, so I have some, you know, 548 00:24:55,406 --> 00:24:57,757 members that are very religious and then others who aren't. 549 00:24:57,887 --> 00:24:59,628 They're just a little backwards sometimes. 550 00:24:59,759 --> 00:25:03,980 And of course, young women often have an image 551 00:25:04,111 --> 00:25:07,723 and are not allowed to be much more than that image. 552 00:25:07,854 --> 00:25:09,943 You got bent out of shape the same way over that costume party 553 00:25:10,073 --> 00:25:11,553 when we were in high school. 554 00:25:11,684 --> 00:25:13,555 You fucked Rick Derris on a pool table-- 555 00:25:13,686 --> 00:25:14,904 with everyone watching, no less. 556 00:25:15,035 --> 00:25:16,645 It was a costume party, T.S. 557 00:25:16,776 --> 00:25:18,081 No one could tell it was me. 558 00:25:18,212 --> 00:25:22,172 But I appreciated her down-to-earthness 559 00:25:22,303 --> 00:25:25,654 and her native intelligence. 560 00:25:25,785 --> 00:25:27,438 You play someone like Alyssa in "Chasing Amy," 561 00:25:27,569 --> 00:25:29,745 who's so with it and articulate, it's hard to go 562 00:25:29,876 --> 00:25:32,966 and play the obligatory girlfriend in some film. 563 00:25:33,096 --> 00:25:35,229 And this character is strong and smart and funny. 564 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,232 SMITH: Dire Straits has a song called "Romeo and Juliet," 565 00:25:38,362 --> 00:25:40,756 and there's a really wonderful line in it where he says, 566 00:25:40,887 --> 00:25:44,194 "I dreamed your dreams for you, and now your dreams are real." 567 00:25:44,325 --> 00:25:45,805 That's what it always felt like. 568 00:25:45,935 --> 00:25:49,635 She really wanted to be that actress. 569 00:25:51,071 --> 00:25:53,160 She was friends with Parker Posey, 570 00:25:53,290 --> 00:25:55,249 and Parker, the year before was the indie "it" girl 571 00:25:55,379 --> 00:25:56,816 with a movie "Party Girl." 572 00:25:56,946 --> 00:25:58,818 ♪ And me 573 00:25:58,948 --> 00:26:00,776 Like, Joey wanted that-- to be considered, 574 00:26:00,907 --> 00:26:02,561 like, an actress, serious actress. 575 00:26:02,691 --> 00:26:06,521 And within, like, a year's time, two years time, 576 00:26:06,652 --> 00:26:08,697 I was able to give her that kind of gift wrapped. 577 00:26:08,828 --> 00:26:10,351 But, you know, she had a lot to do with it. 578 00:26:10,481 --> 00:26:12,788 The Golden Globe-- that's a big, big deal. 579 00:26:12,919 --> 00:26:13,876 I think you do really, really nice work. 580 00:26:14,007 --> 00:26:14,921 Thank you. 581 00:26:15,051 --> 00:26:16,226 And you're going to be a big star. 582 00:26:16,357 --> 00:26:18,185 Thank you. This is, like, the pinnacle of my career. 583 00:26:18,315 --> 00:26:19,665 "Chasing Amy" and the rest 584 00:26:19,795 --> 00:26:21,231 of my fucking professional career 585 00:26:21,362 --> 00:26:23,712 was forged in a cauldron of-- of two years. 586 00:26:23,843 --> 00:26:26,802 Not just my career, but who I would become as a person. 587 00:26:26,933 --> 00:26:31,981 Generally speaking, it all ends if "Chasing Amy" doesn't happen. 588 00:26:32,112 --> 00:26:35,681 But if you went back and told 27-year-old Kevin Smith that, 589 00:26:35,811 --> 00:26:40,381 "Hey, man, fucking-- to get all that, 590 00:26:40,511 --> 00:26:43,645 you have to sacrifice this relationship," 591 00:26:43,776 --> 00:26:47,170 that kid wouldn't have done it. 592 00:26:47,301 --> 00:26:51,697 That kid was so surprised that everything crumbled after that. 593 00:26:51,827 --> 00:26:54,569 He thought it would only make things, like, stronger. 594 00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:56,397 He was very naive. 595 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,749 [INDISTINCT CONVERSATIONS] 596 00:27:04,187 --> 00:27:06,233 [LAUGHTER] 597 00:27:09,628 --> 00:27:11,412 RODGERS: I've been in love with you-- 598 00:27:11,542 --> 00:27:12,718 it sounds stupid to say from, like, 599 00:27:12,848 --> 00:27:14,589 the first second we started talking, 600 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,591 but that's really how it feels. 601 00:27:16,722 --> 00:27:20,247 I don't remember a time knowing you that I did not like you 602 00:27:20,377 --> 00:27:23,119 or love you so expansively, 603 00:27:23,250 --> 00:27:25,208 it felt like it was going to swallow my heart whole. 604 00:27:25,339 --> 00:27:26,993 I thought it was so cool that you were, like, 605 00:27:27,123 --> 00:27:29,691 an out lesbian to your friends. 606 00:27:29,822 --> 00:27:32,433 I was very out on the Internet, very closeted in real life. 607 00:27:38,918 --> 00:27:40,876 [LAUGHTER] 608 00:27:56,936 --> 00:27:58,764 [CRYING] 609 00:27:58,894 --> 00:28:00,766 RODGERS: I'd picked a date that I was going to tell you 610 00:28:00,896 --> 00:28:02,768 that I liked you, 611 00:28:02,898 --> 00:28:05,901 and you were the first person I came out to as queer, 612 00:28:06,032 --> 00:28:10,253 because I wanted you to know that I was a romantic option. 613 00:28:10,384 --> 00:28:12,647 And it was the entire reason I came out. 614 00:28:15,998 --> 00:28:19,785 You were the first person that I talked to every day 615 00:28:19,915 --> 00:28:22,091 and the last person I talked to at night. 616 00:28:23,614 --> 00:28:24,615 SHE SAID "YES"! 617 00:28:24,746 --> 00:28:26,400 The second my alarm went off at, 618 00:28:26,530 --> 00:28:28,315 like, six in the morning or something, 619 00:28:28,445 --> 00:28:31,318 I was already texting you, and you were up at the same time, 620 00:28:31,448 --> 00:28:34,974 and we were just, like, texting back and forth, back and forth. 621 00:28:35,104 --> 00:28:36,627 [LAUGHS] 622 00:28:36,758 --> 00:28:38,847 We helped each other get through the day 623 00:28:38,978 --> 00:28:41,284 because back then when we met, 624 00:28:41,415 --> 00:28:43,896 it was dark times for both of us. 625 00:28:44,026 --> 00:28:47,464 You know, being a teen is just the worst thing ever, 626 00:28:47,595 --> 00:28:49,771 and we just helped each other. 627 00:28:49,902 --> 00:28:52,252 Fellas, I'm off the market officially. 628 00:28:52,382 --> 00:28:54,210 What about to the ladies? 629 00:28:54,341 --> 00:28:55,603 Ladies, actually. 630 00:28:57,083 --> 00:28:59,302 [WHOOSH] 631 00:29:06,527 --> 00:29:08,485 - Hey, everybody. - Hi. 632 00:29:08,616 --> 00:29:10,444 We're filming BTS. Is that okay? 633 00:29:10,574 --> 00:29:11,445 Say again? 634 00:29:11,575 --> 00:29:12,359 Is it okay if we film some BTS? 635 00:29:12,489 --> 00:29:13,490 - Happily. - All right. 636 00:29:13,621 --> 00:29:15,666 Folks, here's some of the most metal water 637 00:29:15,797 --> 00:29:18,104 you will ever drink in your life. 638 00:29:18,234 --> 00:29:21,324 RODGERS: This is what you said of John Pierson in 2003-- 639 00:29:21,455 --> 00:29:23,936 "It's rare when you become friendly with your heroes. 640 00:29:24,066 --> 00:29:26,677 It's rarer still when, even after ten years of friendship 641 00:29:26,808 --> 00:29:28,984 and familiarity, they remain your heroes." 642 00:29:29,115 --> 00:29:32,118 I guess I never really thought of you as as my hero growing up 643 00:29:32,248 --> 00:29:34,337 because I was just a "Chasing Amy" fanatic, 644 00:29:34,468 --> 00:29:37,819 but in this process of getting to make this movie, 645 00:29:37,950 --> 00:29:40,735 I think you have become a, you know, a hero, 646 00:29:40,866 --> 00:29:43,694 not on a pedestal, but as the the person 647 00:29:43,825 --> 00:29:45,958 who helped make all of this possible. 648 00:29:46,088 --> 00:29:48,134 You know, I'd be lying if I was like, "Oh, my God, 649 00:29:48,264 --> 00:29:50,136 I was trying to reach you." You know what I'm saying? 650 00:29:50,266 --> 00:29:53,269 But you got reached regardless. And I didn't know it was you, 651 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,185 but, like, I was telling my story. That's all I ever do. 652 00:29:56,316 --> 00:29:59,188 But when you told me the story, I'm like, 653 00:29:59,319 --> 00:30:03,192 "Oh, I haven't met you before, but I've met you before." 654 00:30:03,323 --> 00:30:06,674 People who are like, "That fucking saved my life." 655 00:30:06,805 --> 00:30:09,590 Your case stands out because I'm like, 656 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,418 "Savannah's way too young for this shit to matter." 657 00:30:11,548 --> 00:30:13,637 They've made way too many better, 658 00:30:13,768 --> 00:30:15,509 more expressive, more on point, 659 00:30:15,639 --> 00:30:20,688 more from the community point of view movies than this. 660 00:30:20,819 --> 00:30:23,473 But when you explained it and, you know, in the TED Talk, 661 00:30:23,604 --> 00:30:25,127 I was like, "That makes sense." 662 00:30:25,258 --> 00:30:28,652 It was surprising but delightful 663 00:30:28,783 --> 00:30:31,220 that you found something in it. 664 00:30:31,351 --> 00:30:35,181 Like that, it played a role in your world. 665 00:30:35,311 --> 00:30:37,009 Like, as an artist, as the guy who made it, 666 00:30:37,139 --> 00:30:39,576 of course, that just means, like, everything. 667 00:30:39,707 --> 00:30:41,796 All right, let's stop for a minute. 668 00:31:06,952 --> 00:31:08,301 RILEY: Are you happy? 669 00:31:08,431 --> 00:31:10,259 [LAUGHS] 670 00:31:20,182 --> 00:31:22,750 So we started dating, and I was out 671 00:31:22,881 --> 00:31:25,579 and completely open to being queer, but... 672 00:31:26,972 --> 00:31:28,190 you were not. 673 00:31:28,321 --> 00:31:30,627 We were dating for two years by the time you came out 674 00:31:30,758 --> 00:31:32,847 - as queer to your family. - Yeah. 675 00:31:32,978 --> 00:31:35,197 I'm from Mexico City, born and raised-- 676 00:31:35,328 --> 00:31:39,767 one of the first cities in the world to legalize gay marriage. 677 00:31:39,898 --> 00:31:44,380 However, in my-- in my family, in my circle, 678 00:31:44,511 --> 00:31:46,687 there was-- it was like, "Okay, 679 00:31:46,817 --> 00:31:48,689 it's great that gay people can get married, 680 00:31:48,819 --> 00:31:51,039 but, you know, can they do it over there?" 681 00:31:54,825 --> 00:31:58,351 Ow! Hide my double chin. 682 00:31:58,481 --> 00:32:03,965 RILEY: I wanted to talk to you about the thing I told my dad 683 00:32:04,096 --> 00:32:06,707 because, you know, he's my dad. 684 00:32:06,837 --> 00:32:07,621 Yeah? 685 00:32:07,751 --> 00:32:08,665 But I was a little bit worried 686 00:32:08,796 --> 00:32:11,364 because he can be a little bit traditional 687 00:32:11,494 --> 00:32:13,714 and, like, honestly, I don't even know 688 00:32:13,844 --> 00:32:17,457 how much he knows about, like, trans people. 689 00:32:17,587 --> 00:32:20,939 Personally, I was very nervous because I didn't want anybody 690 00:32:21,069 --> 00:32:23,724 to be anything other than nice to you and accepting. 691 00:32:23,854 --> 00:32:29,382 He was just, like, "Um, does that-- 692 00:32:29,512 --> 00:32:33,342 And what does that mean to your relationship?" 693 00:32:33,473 --> 00:32:35,562 And I was just like, "Well, things are going 694 00:32:35,692 --> 00:32:37,303 to stay the same. 695 00:32:37,433 --> 00:32:40,045 We still love each other 696 00:32:40,175 --> 00:32:43,396 with everything we have, and nothing has changed." 697 00:32:43,526 --> 00:32:45,833 And then he was like, "Oh, well, I'm really glad 698 00:32:45,964 --> 00:32:47,835 that things are progressing." 699 00:32:47,966 --> 00:32:50,011 And then he was like, "Is he happy?" 700 00:32:50,142 --> 00:32:52,666 - And he used the pronoun... - Wow. 701 00:32:52,796 --> 00:32:54,668 - Like straight-up. - Wow. 702 00:32:54,798 --> 00:32:57,453 - Yeah. - That's... surprising 703 00:32:57,584 --> 00:32:58,498 and very sweet. 704 00:32:58,628 --> 00:33:00,456 Yeah. Yeah. 705 00:33:00,587 --> 00:33:03,329 And I was like, "Yes. 706 00:33:03,459 --> 00:33:06,071 You know this-- in terms of identity 707 00:33:06,201 --> 00:33:08,029 and-- and self-image and stuff like that, 708 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:09,988 it's the happiest I've ever seen him." 709 00:33:10,118 --> 00:33:11,424 Yeah. 710 00:33:11,554 --> 00:33:13,774 And he was just like, "I'm very happy for you both." 711 00:33:13,904 --> 00:33:15,297 And another thumbs up. 712 00:33:15,428 --> 00:33:18,170 - Wow. That is... - Yeah. 713 00:33:18,300 --> 00:33:20,737 ...like all you can ask for, right? 714 00:33:20,868 --> 00:33:22,913 [WHOOSH] 715 00:33:27,353 --> 00:33:28,615 [INDISTINCT CONVERSATIONS] 716 00:33:40,583 --> 00:33:41,671 [CHEERS AND APPLAUSE] 717 00:33:56,251 --> 00:33:58,253 - Nice to meet you, Alex. - Nice to meet you. 718 00:33:58,384 --> 00:33:59,428 - S-A-V. - Oh, that's an awesome name. 719 00:33:59,559 --> 00:34:00,864 - Sav. Brandon. - Nice to meet you. 720 00:34:00,995 --> 00:34:01,996 I'm the director of "Chasing Chasing Amy." 721 00:34:02,127 --> 00:34:04,042 I love "Chasing Amy." 722 00:34:04,172 --> 00:34:07,219 I think it's way more sincere than a lot of his other stuff. 723 00:34:07,349 --> 00:34:09,395 He was on the forefront of issues 724 00:34:09,525 --> 00:34:11,353 that people are talking about today. 725 00:34:11,484 --> 00:34:13,442 I think there would be a little less controversy 726 00:34:13,573 --> 00:34:15,096 about it today if it came out. 727 00:34:15,227 --> 00:34:17,968 But-- but that's probably just some idealistic 728 00:34:18,099 --> 00:34:19,666 thinking on my part because I don't really follow 729 00:34:19,796 --> 00:34:21,668 the news that much. 730 00:34:21,798 --> 00:34:23,931 If you can't watch that movie and find anything about it 731 00:34:24,062 --> 00:34:29,502 that you don't love, something's really wrong with you. 732 00:34:29,632 --> 00:34:31,765 [LAUGHS] 733 00:34:31,895 --> 00:34:32,896 So-- But... 734 00:34:33,854 --> 00:34:37,118 "Chasing Amy" was, to me, more of a film 735 00:34:37,249 --> 00:34:41,557 made for straight white men that was, 736 00:34:41,688 --> 00:34:45,213 you know, kind of introducing people to queer communities. 737 00:34:45,344 --> 00:34:47,737 "Chasing Amy," when it came out, was controversial. 738 00:34:47,868 --> 00:34:49,957 And I remember even thinking to myself as I'm watching it, 739 00:34:50,088 --> 00:34:52,002 I'm like, "Wonder what my gay friends 740 00:34:52,133 --> 00:34:53,613 are going to think of this." 741 00:34:53,743 --> 00:34:55,528 If you've been marginalized because of media that says 742 00:34:55,658 --> 00:34:57,834 that lesbians can all of a sudden not be lesbians 743 00:34:57,965 --> 00:34:59,488 if they find the right man, 744 00:34:59,619 --> 00:35:01,447 I totally get why this movie would trigger you. 745 00:35:01,577 --> 00:35:03,188 LODER: Hi, I'm Kurt Loder with MTV News. 746 00:35:03,318 --> 00:35:05,146 "Boy meets lesbian" is the high concept thesis 747 00:35:05,277 --> 00:35:06,887 of a new movie opening on Friday in Boston, 748 00:35:07,017 --> 00:35:08,584 Los Angeles, San Francisco, Atlanta, 749 00:35:08,715 --> 00:35:09,716 and a few other cities. 750 00:35:09,846 --> 00:35:11,544 The movie is "Chasing Amy," 751 00:35:11,674 --> 00:35:13,111 the third film from director Kevin Smith. 752 00:35:13,241 --> 00:35:15,939 The theme, once again is post-high school anxiety, 753 00:35:16,070 --> 00:35:17,593 but does the boy get the lesbian? 754 00:35:17,724 --> 00:35:18,986 And for that matter, how much of a lesbian 755 00:35:19,117 --> 00:35:20,118 is the lesbian in question? 756 00:35:20,248 --> 00:35:22,294 It's giving certain men this belief 757 00:35:22,424 --> 00:35:25,123 that you should go after your lesbian friends 758 00:35:25,253 --> 00:35:26,733 if you're attracted to them, right? 759 00:35:26,863 --> 00:35:29,344 And that, like, they might reciprocate. 760 00:35:29,475 --> 00:35:33,043 Do you remember for one fucking second who I am? 761 00:35:33,174 --> 00:35:34,915 So, I mean, you know, people change. 762 00:35:35,045 --> 00:35:36,873 Oh! Oh, it's that simple? 763 00:35:37,004 --> 00:35:40,703 "Chasing Amy" is a very particular queer story. 764 00:35:40,834 --> 00:35:45,404 If queer cinema were a-- were a bus, 765 00:35:45,534 --> 00:35:50,844 "Chasing Amy" would be like, outside the bus, 766 00:35:50,974 --> 00:35:53,412 but it would be outside the bus in relatively good company. 767 00:35:53,542 --> 00:35:55,588 There are other movies from the same time period 768 00:35:55,718 --> 00:36:00,158 and earlier that are much more sensitive 769 00:36:00,288 --> 00:36:02,551 with their perspectives, with their language, 770 00:36:02,682 --> 00:36:04,553 but that may not have been as mainstream. 771 00:36:05,772 --> 00:36:06,947 Can I kiss you? 772 00:36:07,077 --> 00:36:08,427 How come we didn't know about this before? 773 00:36:08,557 --> 00:36:09,906 I mean, you don't seem gay. 774 00:36:10,037 --> 00:36:11,995 I didn't say I was gay. I said I was in love. 775 00:36:12,126 --> 00:36:13,823 And so, like, even today, 776 00:36:13,954 --> 00:36:18,915 we fall into the trappings of mainstream expectations 777 00:36:19,046 --> 00:36:21,135 when it comes to queer media. 778 00:36:21,266 --> 00:36:23,659 RODGERS: Do you understand why certain LGBTQ people 779 00:36:23,790 --> 00:36:25,705 may not like "Chasing Amy?" 780 00:36:25,835 --> 00:36:27,489 Yeah, of course. Absolutely. 781 00:36:27,620 --> 00:36:30,753 Believe me, I've had 22 years to get used to that, 782 00:36:30,884 --> 00:36:33,408 and I got used to that on the fucking first week it came out. 783 00:36:33,539 --> 00:36:37,934 There were some people, as Gwen predicted, that were upset. 784 00:36:38,065 --> 00:36:39,371 The backlash to be expected, of course, 785 00:36:39,501 --> 00:36:41,808 is from the lesbian community, and not really unfairly. 786 00:36:41,938 --> 00:36:44,376 Like here you are, you're a white straight male. 787 00:36:44,506 --> 00:36:47,292 What are you doing writing a movie about gay people 788 00:36:47,422 --> 00:36:49,250 or especially a lesbian character? 789 00:36:49,381 --> 00:36:51,948 But Gwen also said, "I was always surprised 790 00:36:52,079 --> 00:36:54,516 that more people didn't come after you." 791 00:36:54,647 --> 00:36:58,694 The biggest blowback-- and God's truth-- that I heard, 792 00:36:58,825 --> 00:37:02,829 felt, and was told about was when they told me that Ellen 793 00:37:02,959 --> 00:37:05,658 and Anne Heche went to see "Chasing Amy," 794 00:37:05,788 --> 00:37:07,399 and it was reported that they walked out 795 00:37:07,529 --> 00:37:08,748 in the first half hour. 796 00:37:08,878 --> 00:37:11,707 And us being like, "Man, like-- 797 00:37:11,838 --> 00:37:13,535 well, that's the most famous lesbian in the world. 798 00:37:13,666 --> 00:37:15,407 We just lost her. 799 00:37:15,537 --> 00:37:16,973 That means we're never getting on 'The Ellen Show.'" 800 00:37:17,104 --> 00:37:20,803 Kevin Smith can't know what it's like to be 801 00:37:20,934 --> 00:37:24,067 a queer person or a trans person. 802 00:37:24,198 --> 00:37:25,373 Now that we know that we're attracted to each other, 803 00:37:25,504 --> 00:37:26,896 what do we do? 804 00:37:27,027 --> 00:37:28,594 But he can know what it's like to know them 805 00:37:28,724 --> 00:37:30,639 and to have them in his life, 806 00:37:30,770 --> 00:37:32,511 and that's the story he's telling. 807 00:37:32,641 --> 00:37:34,861 A big complaint seems to be about Banky, 808 00:37:34,991 --> 00:37:37,864 who'll, like, use pretty harsh terminology 809 00:37:37,994 --> 00:37:40,432 and throw around the "F" word and stuff like that. 810 00:37:40,562 --> 00:37:42,434 Well, yeah. Banky's not "the villain," 811 00:37:42,564 --> 00:37:45,915 but Banky is meant to be the idiot in the story. 812 00:37:46,046 --> 00:37:49,441 What'd I tell you? She just needs the right guy. 813 00:37:49,571 --> 00:37:52,313 All every woman really wants, be it mother, senator, nun, 814 00:37:52,444 --> 00:37:54,228 is some serious deep dicking. 815 00:37:54,359 --> 00:37:58,145 Jason Lee's character Banky is "the way in" 816 00:37:58,276 --> 00:38:00,234 for straight guys watching this movie. 817 00:38:03,368 --> 00:38:05,326 LEE: I remember telling Kevin that I was nervous 818 00:38:05,457 --> 00:38:07,415 about some of Banky's dialog. 819 00:38:10,113 --> 00:38:12,333 "You know, Kevin, there's just a lot of offensive things 820 00:38:12,464 --> 00:38:14,640 that Banky is saying, and I don't want to be hated. 821 00:38:14,770 --> 00:38:16,642 Like I don't want people to think Banky 822 00:38:16,772 --> 00:38:18,905 is just some ignorant prick." 823 00:38:19,035 --> 00:38:21,690 What does it matter if I refer to her as a dyke? 824 00:38:21,821 --> 00:38:23,736 Banky is just flat out gay. He was just repressed. 825 00:38:23,866 --> 00:38:25,738 That's why he was so angry and projecting and shit. 826 00:38:25,868 --> 00:38:28,262 But I would like to state, for the record, 827 00:38:28,393 --> 00:38:29,785 did create all these characters 828 00:38:29,916 --> 00:38:31,700 or rather steal them from real life people. 829 00:38:31,831 --> 00:38:35,269 So if anybody gets to say what happens to him, I think it's me. 830 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:36,705 It isn't a healthy thing 831 00:38:36,836 --> 00:38:39,578 to say that your homophobia is excused 832 00:38:39,708 --> 00:38:41,057 because you are gay and you're closeted 833 00:38:41,188 --> 00:38:42,711 and you're trying to deal with that, 834 00:38:42,842 --> 00:38:45,018 especially if you're hurting other queer people. 835 00:38:45,148 --> 00:38:46,628 You don't just get a pass for that. 836 00:38:46,759 --> 00:38:48,674 When you say that all homophobes are secretly gay, 837 00:38:48,804 --> 00:38:51,546 what you're doing is blaming gay people for homophobia. 838 00:38:51,677 --> 00:38:54,462 Exactly. And not just, you know, bigots. 839 00:38:54,593 --> 00:38:55,420 Right. 840 00:38:56,551 --> 00:38:59,946 As time moves on, we look at these films that have been made 841 00:39:00,076 --> 00:39:03,036 and we start to read them a little differently. 842 00:39:03,166 --> 00:39:06,300 There's so much that you would not get away with today 843 00:39:06,431 --> 00:39:08,215 that they got away with just fine. 844 00:39:08,346 --> 00:39:09,782 And nobody even questioned it. 845 00:39:09,912 --> 00:39:11,697 Like that there would be a homophobic character 846 00:39:11,827 --> 00:39:14,569 that uses the word "faggot" over and over and over again. 847 00:39:14,700 --> 00:39:16,745 I think now we would judge that director 848 00:39:16,876 --> 00:39:19,531 and that would be very problematic. 849 00:39:19,661 --> 00:39:21,750 Back in the day, he was just accurately portraying 850 00:39:21,881 --> 00:39:24,100 how a guy like that would actually talk. 851 00:39:24,231 --> 00:39:25,798 What if she's carrying a disease? 852 00:39:25,928 --> 00:39:29,236 And you could just bring to life flawed characters. 853 00:39:29,367 --> 00:39:32,631 It's very much a film of its time, 854 00:39:32,761 --> 00:39:36,112 but it's still coming out of that era 855 00:39:36,243 --> 00:39:38,724 where people don't know as much about, 856 00:39:38,854 --> 00:39:40,900 like, the LGBTQ community. 857 00:39:41,030 --> 00:39:43,468 A House panel says no to gay marriages. 858 00:39:43,598 --> 00:39:45,731 Yesterday, the Judiciary Committee approved a bill 859 00:39:45,861 --> 00:39:49,125 that would keep same sex unions invalid under federal law, 860 00:39:49,256 --> 00:39:51,084 even if a state makes them legal. 861 00:39:51,214 --> 00:39:54,043 What is it about gay men that terrifies the rest of the world? 862 00:39:54,174 --> 00:39:56,219 The Hooper X character in the film 863 00:39:56,350 --> 00:39:58,874 is really sort of the moral compass. 864 00:39:59,005 --> 00:40:01,050 There has always been a hard thing when it comes 865 00:40:01,181 --> 00:40:03,488 to, like, any sort of like, doubly marginalized community, 866 00:40:03,618 --> 00:40:05,751 of how do we tackle both things at once? 867 00:40:05,881 --> 00:40:07,361 There's an element of what-- you know, 868 00:40:07,492 --> 00:40:09,232 what's called twoness going on there. 869 00:40:09,363 --> 00:40:13,323 And twoness is being black and being an American. 870 00:40:13,454 --> 00:40:16,631 And but twoness can also be black and being gay. 871 00:40:16,762 --> 00:40:20,113 It's pretty easy for Holden and Banky 872 00:40:20,243 --> 00:40:24,422 to write a comic book about a bunch of stoners superheroes. 873 00:40:25,074 --> 00:40:26,467 There's not a lot of risk there. 874 00:40:26,598 --> 00:40:27,816 I got to deal with being a minority 875 00:40:27,947 --> 00:40:29,252 in the minority of the minority, 876 00:40:29,383 --> 00:40:30,863 and nobody's supporting my ass. 877 00:40:30,993 --> 00:40:32,604 That character could be the whole subject 878 00:40:32,734 --> 00:40:34,910 of a whole film of itself. 879 00:40:35,041 --> 00:40:37,347 One of my first notes that I was taking while I was watching 880 00:40:37,478 --> 00:40:39,741 was Ben Affleck's goatee was a bad idea. 881 00:40:39,872 --> 00:40:45,573 And... Well, that's that's the first note, 882 00:40:45,704 --> 00:40:47,749 so I guess that tells you all you need to know. 883 00:40:51,449 --> 00:40:52,450 RODGERS: You know, when I was growing up, I was, like, 884 00:40:52,580 --> 00:40:53,494 "Holden, what a cool guy." 885 00:40:53,625 --> 00:40:55,148 And then I like, grew up and I was like, 886 00:40:55,278 --> 00:40:56,454 "No, Banky was such a babe in that movie." 887 00:40:56,584 --> 00:40:58,194 He was, like, the cool guy. 888 00:40:58,325 --> 00:40:59,848 Holden's, like, fucking wearing, like, this loose flannel 889 00:40:59,979 --> 00:41:02,460 and these jeans that don't fit him right, and the goatee. 890 00:41:02,590 --> 00:41:04,549 No wonder he attracted a lesbian. 891 00:41:04,679 --> 00:41:07,856 [LAUGHS] 892 00:41:07,987 --> 00:41:10,250 That's going into the movie. [LAUGHS] 893 00:41:10,380 --> 00:41:12,295 Naturally, I gravitate toward the Holden character. 894 00:41:12,426 --> 00:41:13,645 That is the closest character 895 00:41:13,775 --> 00:41:15,255 that I've ever written to myself. 896 00:41:15,385 --> 00:41:18,171 This girl loves me, my friend-- 897 00:41:18,301 --> 00:41:20,739 loves me, you know what I'm saying? 898 00:41:20,869 --> 00:41:23,829 YARROW: It's a film that centers Holden McNeil, 899 00:41:23,959 --> 00:41:25,744 who is a straight white man, 900 00:41:25,874 --> 00:41:28,964 and so his lens really shapes the storyline. 901 00:41:29,095 --> 00:41:31,619 And while there are sort of diverse perspectives, 902 00:41:31,750 --> 00:41:34,666 it's still very much Holden's lens. 903 00:41:34,796 --> 00:41:36,798 There's always this assumption that all we need 904 00:41:36,929 --> 00:41:40,280 is to meet this right man, and then we will change 905 00:41:40,410 --> 00:41:41,716 everything about ourselves to be with him 906 00:41:41,847 --> 00:41:43,326 because it's a standard, it's tradition, 907 00:41:43,457 --> 00:41:44,719 it's just the way that things are. 908 00:41:44,850 --> 00:41:45,764 Why girls? 909 00:41:47,679 --> 00:41:49,115 Why men? 910 00:41:49,245 --> 00:41:50,551 Well, because that's the standard. 911 00:41:50,682 --> 00:41:52,074 And so I think we've been faced with that 912 00:41:52,205 --> 00:41:53,859 for most of our lives, and so a lot of lesbians, 913 00:41:53,989 --> 00:41:58,298 I think, innately just-- they detest that, 914 00:41:58,428 --> 00:41:59,691 and I understand why. 915 00:41:59,821 --> 00:42:01,257 There's this scene in the movie 916 00:42:01,388 --> 00:42:05,087 where Holden chases after Alyssa in the rain 917 00:42:05,218 --> 00:42:09,831 and she like, lets him have it. She's just like, "Screw you." 918 00:42:09,962 --> 00:42:11,441 That was so unfair! 919 00:42:11,572 --> 00:42:12,617 "I'm lesbian. 920 00:42:12,747 --> 00:42:14,096 You're an idiot. 921 00:42:14,227 --> 00:42:15,228 How dare you? 922 00:42:15,358 --> 00:42:16,838 I'm going to hitch a ride back home." 923 00:42:16,969 --> 00:42:20,233 And I was like, "Yes, like, that's so good." 924 00:42:20,363 --> 00:42:24,237 And then he, like, mopes back to his car, and I'm like, 925 00:42:24,367 --> 00:42:25,847 "Get out of there, Ben Affleck." 926 00:42:25,978 --> 00:42:28,154 And then she runs back to him and kisses him. 927 00:42:28,284 --> 00:42:29,416 And I was like, "No!" 928 00:42:29,547 --> 00:42:30,504 [LAUGHS] 929 00:42:30,635 --> 00:42:32,593 I was watching Ben Affleck's speech 930 00:42:32,724 --> 00:42:35,553 and I was thinking like, "Holy crap, 931 00:42:35,683 --> 00:42:38,860 this is actually, literally the speech 932 00:42:38,991 --> 00:42:43,125 that anyone, gay or straight, would want to hear." 933 00:42:43,256 --> 00:42:44,823 I love you. 934 00:42:44,953 --> 00:42:47,086 Very, very simple. 935 00:42:47,216 --> 00:42:50,132 Where I, like, related to "Chasing Amy" 936 00:42:50,263 --> 00:42:54,223 coming into it was that Kevin is such a romantic 937 00:42:54,354 --> 00:42:56,835 in the way that he describes his feelings of love. 938 00:42:56,965 --> 00:42:59,533 You are the-- the epitome of everything I have ever 939 00:42:59,664 --> 00:43:01,143 looked for in another human being. 940 00:43:01,274 --> 00:43:03,189 That's how I feel about my fiance. 941 00:43:05,626 --> 00:43:08,803 [INDISTINCT CONVERSATIONS] 942 00:43:08,934 --> 00:43:10,326 So this is what I'm sending. 943 00:43:10,457 --> 00:43:12,111 "I'm taking my fiancée on a date to some diner 944 00:43:12,241 --> 00:43:14,635 you shot in 20 years ago." 945 00:43:17,464 --> 00:43:19,553 And this is where Ben Affleck sat. 946 00:43:19,684 --> 00:43:21,599 My butt has been where Ben Affleck's butt has been. 947 00:43:24,166 --> 00:43:27,909 Basically Ben Affleck. Little shorter. 948 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:29,519 RODGERS: This movie made me be honest with myself, 949 00:43:31,696 --> 00:43:34,524 "Chasing Amy" and "Chasing Chasing Amy." 950 00:43:34,655 --> 00:43:36,004 You did it too late. 951 00:43:36,135 --> 00:43:37,527 You tried to cheat. I won. 952 00:43:37,658 --> 00:43:38,877 [SIGHS] 953 00:43:39,007 --> 00:43:40,139 This is the worst. 954 00:43:41,706 --> 00:43:44,665 You brought me all the way to New Jersey. 955 00:43:44,796 --> 00:43:46,580 RODGERS: The last time I was here, I was not very honest 956 00:43:46,711 --> 00:43:50,105 with myself about who I was, and now I'm back here 957 00:43:50,236 --> 00:43:55,067 and engaged, more out. 958 00:43:56,372 --> 00:43:59,158 It's a pretty good situation to be in. 959 00:43:59,288 --> 00:44:03,945 And now, I guess the weight of this place isn't as heavy. 960 00:44:04,076 --> 00:44:05,947 It's just a place, 961 00:44:06,078 --> 00:44:09,603 and I'm not nearly as nervous as I was just to exist in the world 962 00:44:09,734 --> 00:44:13,694 or shoot in New Jersey. It's kind of nice. 963 00:44:13,825 --> 00:44:16,262 It's the "Chasing Amy" memorial table. 964 00:44:18,612 --> 00:44:20,745 Where homosexuals go to die. 965 00:44:20,875 --> 00:44:23,661 Well, you're the only homo at this table. 966 00:44:23,791 --> 00:44:24,705 I'm half. 967 00:44:24,836 --> 00:44:26,489 I hope that went on the record. 968 00:44:26,620 --> 00:44:27,926 That I'm half gay? 969 00:44:28,056 --> 00:44:28,927 Because-- Yeah, Because you're half gay. 970 00:44:29,057 --> 00:44:30,276 [LAUGHS] 971 00:44:32,452 --> 00:44:34,019 [WHOOSH] 972 00:44:35,934 --> 00:44:39,198 The character of Alyssa Jones is Joey Adams. 973 00:44:39,328 --> 00:44:42,941 It's written for Joey about Joey based on things Joey said. 974 00:44:43,071 --> 00:44:45,595 The bigger difference, of course, is Alyssa is-- 975 00:44:45,726 --> 00:44:47,902 you know, she's identifies as a lesbian, 976 00:44:48,033 --> 00:44:49,948 at least in the beginning of the movie. 977 00:44:54,561 --> 00:44:57,129 I think Alyssa Jones, as a character, 978 00:44:57,259 --> 00:45:00,654 was an incredible role for a woman at that time. 979 00:45:00,785 --> 00:45:03,831 There really weren't tons of roles for women 980 00:45:03,962 --> 00:45:08,444 that had robust, intelligent dialogue and banter 981 00:45:08,575 --> 00:45:11,534 and the ability to be more than one dimensional. 982 00:45:11,665 --> 00:45:13,362 I think Kevin writes well for women 983 00:45:13,493 --> 00:45:15,756 because Kevin's very in touch with his feminine side. 984 00:45:15,887 --> 00:45:17,976 He's very much the female in our relationship, 985 00:45:18,106 --> 00:45:20,239 and I'm more the male. He's very romantic. 986 00:45:20,369 --> 00:45:22,023 He's very sentimental. 987 00:45:22,154 --> 00:45:25,374 This character that Kevin Smith created of Alyssa 988 00:45:25,505 --> 00:45:27,159 is sort of, like, maybe a leap 989 00:45:27,289 --> 00:45:29,422 and a bound above the rest of the film 990 00:45:29,552 --> 00:45:33,513 and past the time period in which that this movie came out. 991 00:45:33,643 --> 00:45:36,211 She's cool. She, like, gets on the mic at a dyke night, 992 00:45:36,342 --> 00:45:38,997 you know, and makes out with her girlfriend in public. 993 00:45:39,127 --> 00:45:44,176 There are things in this movie that are so ill-advised. 994 00:45:44,306 --> 00:45:46,874 Like, they're on the swings, and he says like... 995 00:45:47,005 --> 00:45:48,789 "Well, where's the penetration in lesbian sex?" 996 00:45:50,748 --> 00:45:51,661 The finger? 997 00:45:51,792 --> 00:45:53,141 She goes... 998 00:45:53,272 --> 00:45:54,752 Observe. 999 00:45:58,930 --> 00:46:01,062 I don't know if anyone in this room 1000 00:46:01,193 --> 00:46:03,151 has ever fisted someone, 1001 00:46:03,282 --> 00:46:06,764 but you for sure don't do it like that. 1002 00:46:08,461 --> 00:46:10,985 Alyssa Jones as a queer character 1003 00:46:11,116 --> 00:46:16,034 still comes in a very appetizing to the male gaze package. 1004 00:46:16,164 --> 00:46:20,778 She's blonde, she's thin, she's sexually available. 1005 00:46:20,908 --> 00:46:23,302 She has a promiscuous past. 1006 00:46:23,432 --> 00:46:25,130 I thought you would be into this. 1007 00:46:25,260 --> 00:46:26,174 You did? 1008 00:46:27,523 --> 00:46:29,047 What does that say about me? 1009 00:46:30,744 --> 00:46:32,093 You've done stuff like this before. 1010 00:46:32,224 --> 00:46:34,052 I mean, this should be no big deal for you. 1011 00:46:34,182 --> 00:46:36,619 Any aspect of that movie that might have seemed 1012 00:46:36,750 --> 00:46:40,101 ahead of its time when we made it has long since, 1013 00:46:40,232 --> 00:46:42,843 like-- history has caught up and then gone past it 1014 00:46:42,974 --> 00:46:45,498 to the point where people do look at it 1015 00:46:45,628 --> 00:46:47,239 as "problematic" or something like that. 1016 00:46:47,369 --> 00:46:50,590 This movie is, like, so accidentally good 1017 00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:52,635 at talking about biphobia. 1018 00:46:52,766 --> 00:46:56,161 There are so many things that the character Alyssa will say 1019 00:46:56,291 --> 00:46:59,251 that I have thought about or seen in my queer experiences 1020 00:46:59,381 --> 00:47:01,079 with other queer women, 1021 00:47:01,209 --> 00:47:04,082 and I just felt like how interesting it was 1022 00:47:04,212 --> 00:47:06,736 that Kevin Smith ended up making this movie 1023 00:47:06,867 --> 00:47:09,522 when the intent is clearly not there. 1024 00:47:09,652 --> 00:47:11,437 It really infuriates me on this film 1025 00:47:11,567 --> 00:47:14,309 when we hear feedback about how it's some guy's sexual fantasy, 1026 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,095 and he's portraying women and lesbians in a bad way, 1027 00:47:17,225 --> 00:47:18,618 because he really does-- 1028 00:47:18,748 --> 00:47:20,576 he has such an honest respect for women, 1029 00:47:20,707 --> 00:47:22,404 and he really understands them. 1030 00:47:22,535 --> 00:47:24,189 And I think it's obvious in most of his scripts. 1031 00:47:24,319 --> 00:47:26,844 The way that Alyssa as a character, 1032 00:47:26,974 --> 00:47:30,978 defines her experience is really beautiful. 1033 00:47:31,109 --> 00:47:33,676 She offers language for things that people 1034 00:47:33,807 --> 00:47:35,635 have not been able to say before. 1035 00:47:35,765 --> 00:47:39,726 I like that Alyssa is never actually questioning 1036 00:47:39,857 --> 00:47:41,641 her own sexuality. 1037 00:47:41,771 --> 00:47:44,165 Everyone else is doing it for her, but she's good. 1038 00:47:44,296 --> 00:47:45,514 She knows what's up. 1039 00:47:45,645 --> 00:47:47,821 One of my favorite parts of the film 1040 00:47:47,952 --> 00:47:49,823 is when they're lying in each other's arms, 1041 00:47:49,954 --> 00:47:52,913 Holden and Alyssa, and he says 1042 00:47:53,044 --> 00:47:54,741 something that's like, very male, right? 1043 00:47:54,872 --> 00:47:56,743 Like, "Why me? Why am I so special?" 1044 00:47:56,874 --> 00:47:59,354 And she has this beautiful, like, sweet, 1045 00:47:59,485 --> 00:48:00,878 short monologue about... 1046 00:48:01,008 --> 00:48:02,880 I came to this on my own terms. 1047 00:48:03,010 --> 00:48:05,056 Which is why it makes it okay. 1048 00:48:05,186 --> 00:48:09,887 I'm not with you because of what family, society, life 1049 00:48:10,017 --> 00:48:12,150 tried to instill in me from day one. 1050 00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,369 She didn't fall into a heterosexual relationship 1051 00:48:14,500 --> 00:48:17,242 because it was what was expected of her or what the norm was, 1052 00:48:17,372 --> 00:48:19,374 what the assumption was. She chose it. 1053 00:48:19,505 --> 00:48:21,899 So being able to see somebody own their experience 1054 00:48:22,029 --> 00:48:24,249 in that way is really beautiful. 1055 00:48:24,379 --> 00:48:27,382 I think it taught me the importance of, like-- at least 1056 00:48:27,513 --> 00:48:31,169 in that time of labeling myself as bi, not allowing anyone 1057 00:48:31,299 --> 00:48:33,258 to tell me that I wasn't queer enough. 1058 00:48:33,388 --> 00:48:35,347 The one scene that gives us, I think, the most insight 1059 00:48:35,477 --> 00:48:37,827 about her is the scene with her friends, 1060 00:48:37,958 --> 00:48:41,179 because you get to see kind of her friends react 1061 00:48:41,309 --> 00:48:42,745 to her sexual fluidity. 1062 00:48:42,876 --> 00:48:45,052 She's like, "Yeah, I'm with this guy now." 1063 00:48:45,183 --> 00:48:48,142 And they're like... Another one bites the dust. 1064 00:48:51,885 --> 00:48:55,062 It's, like, in that moment, it's not as if, like, 1065 00:48:55,193 --> 00:48:56,934 "Oh, she's just a different kind of queer person." 1066 00:48:57,064 --> 00:48:59,806 It's as if her queerness is now erased. 1067 00:48:59,937 --> 00:49:04,115 She is just a person trying to find love, find companionship, 1068 00:49:04,245 --> 00:49:07,118 find someone who will be her equal in so many things, 1069 00:49:07,248 --> 00:49:08,728 and I think that's touching. 1070 00:49:08,858 --> 00:49:11,165 To immediately halve your options 1071 00:49:11,296 --> 00:49:13,646 by eliminating the possibility of finding 1072 00:49:13,776 --> 00:49:15,691 that one person within your own gender-- 1073 00:49:17,215 --> 00:49:19,130 that just seems stupid to me. 1074 00:49:19,260 --> 00:49:21,132 DR. JEN: It's hard to pinpoint bisexuality 1075 00:49:21,262 --> 00:49:23,873 as a media representation because it really operates 1076 00:49:24,004 --> 00:49:26,093 between two polar extremes. 1077 00:49:26,224 --> 00:49:27,660 There's the invisibility 1078 00:49:27,790 --> 00:49:29,314 and then there's the hyper visibility. 1079 00:49:29,444 --> 00:49:31,229 So the invisibility refers to the fact 1080 00:49:31,359 --> 00:49:33,796 that bisexual stories haven't been told for very long. 1081 00:49:33,927 --> 00:49:35,450 Language is really important. 1082 00:49:35,581 --> 00:49:38,845 Being able to have a way to talk about something 1083 00:49:38,976 --> 00:49:40,542 gives us the ability to be that. 1084 00:49:40,673 --> 00:49:43,328 So if you don't have something to call yourself, 1085 00:49:43,458 --> 00:49:45,852 how do you explain it to the people who are important to you? 1086 00:49:45,983 --> 00:49:48,333 I'm not even sure bisexuality exists. 1087 00:49:48,463 --> 00:49:51,205 I think it's just a layover on the way to gay town. 1088 00:49:51,336 --> 00:49:53,338 When are you gonna make up your mind between dick and pussy? 1089 00:49:53,468 --> 00:49:55,340 And spare us the gory bisexual details. 1090 00:49:55,470 --> 00:49:57,342 Well, I'll see your fugitive former flame 1091 00:49:57,472 --> 00:49:59,126 and raise you a lesbian daughter. 1092 00:49:59,257 --> 00:49:59,997 Marissa? 1093 00:50:02,303 --> 00:50:04,610 Well, I'm sure it's just a phase. 1094 00:50:04,740 --> 00:50:05,872 It was for me. 1095 00:50:07,395 --> 00:50:09,571 The hypervisibility is all of the stereotypes 1096 00:50:09,702 --> 00:50:12,574 that we attach to bisexuality, and "Chasing Amy" 1097 00:50:12,705 --> 00:50:14,228 brings up a lot of those things. 1098 00:50:14,359 --> 00:50:16,274 The idea that bisexuality is associated 1099 00:50:16,404 --> 00:50:19,233 with promiscuity or sexual experience. 1100 00:50:19,364 --> 00:50:21,931 People often think of bisexual people as being confused 1101 00:50:22,062 --> 00:50:24,499 because they aren't being true to themselves. 1102 00:50:24,630 --> 00:50:26,849 A lot of that confusion comes from the social scripts 1103 00:50:26,980 --> 00:50:29,374 that are laid in front of us. It's the cultural context. 1104 00:50:29,504 --> 00:50:31,071 It's not that that person doesn't understand 1105 00:50:31,202 --> 00:50:32,986 how they individually feel. 1106 00:50:34,379 --> 00:50:36,903 [WHOOSH] 1107 00:50:37,034 --> 00:50:38,035 [INDISTINCT CONVERSATIONS] 1108 00:50:42,648 --> 00:50:44,171 [LAUGHS] 1109 00:50:47,914 --> 00:50:48,958 MAN 2: All right, y'all, ready? 1110 00:50:49,089 --> 00:50:52,136 One, two, three. 1111 00:50:52,266 --> 00:50:53,311 The coverage? 1112 00:50:53,441 --> 00:50:54,007 [LAUGHS] 1113 00:50:54,138 --> 00:50:56,140 Yeah. One, two, three. 1114 00:50:56,270 --> 00:51:00,100 [INDISTINCT CONVERSATIONS] 1115 00:51:00,231 --> 00:51:03,060 RODGERS: Take me through the genesis of you two meeting. 1116 00:51:03,190 --> 00:51:05,323 I've heard Kevin's point of view on it. 1117 00:51:05,453 --> 00:51:08,804 Well, Kevin has a far superior memory than I do. 1118 00:51:08,935 --> 00:51:10,371 That's just a very nice way of saying, 1119 00:51:10,502 --> 00:51:13,070 "Kevin cared more than I ever did." 1120 00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,159 I remember meeting you. All right, let's hear where. 1121 00:51:15,289 --> 00:51:16,856 It's a boring story if I just say, like, 1122 00:51:16,986 --> 00:51:19,076 "Yeah, I walked onto set, and he was there." 1123 00:51:19,206 --> 00:51:22,296 Is that where we met? That's where I remember. 1124 00:51:22,427 --> 00:51:25,125 See? I care more than she does. 1125 00:51:25,256 --> 00:51:27,910 We met in an audition for "Mallrats." 1126 00:51:28,041 --> 00:51:30,522 - Okay, but that's where it-- - You did walk into a room. 1127 00:51:30,652 --> 00:51:32,219 That's where it gets a little hazy for me. 1128 00:51:32,350 --> 00:51:34,221 You don't remember this? Fuck. 1129 00:51:34,352 --> 00:51:35,701 This is why we broke up. 1130 00:51:35,831 --> 00:51:37,616 So did you guys start doing it while you were 1131 00:51:37,746 --> 00:51:39,879 still in production, or did you wait till "Mallrats" 1132 00:51:40,009 --> 00:51:41,446 was finished shooting? 1133 00:51:41,576 --> 00:51:43,491 "Bio-dome" was-- I was shooting "Bio-dome." 1134 00:51:43,622 --> 00:51:45,276 You were shooting-- No, I was done with "Bio-dome." 1135 00:51:45,406 --> 00:51:47,495 You were done-- We hated each other. 1136 00:51:47,626 --> 00:51:49,106 SMITH: When I started dating Joey, which was after "Mallrats"-- 1137 00:51:49,236 --> 00:51:51,456 We met on "Mallrats," and we had great chemistry. 1138 00:51:51,586 --> 00:51:54,154 Like, just fooling around. We'd make fun of each other, 1139 00:51:54,285 --> 00:51:55,982 mock each other, like, all the time and shit. 1140 00:51:56,113 --> 00:51:57,984 [SCREAMS] 1141 00:51:58,115 --> 00:52:00,029 I didn't realize we were flirting. 1142 00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:01,901 That's how I talked to most girls. 1143 00:52:02,031 --> 00:52:04,817 On "Mallrats," when he first gave me my line reading, 1144 00:52:04,947 --> 00:52:06,732 he also told me what to do with my hand 1145 00:52:06,862 --> 00:52:08,342 while I was saying the line, 1146 00:52:08,473 --> 00:52:10,301 and I almost had to leave the room for a second 1147 00:52:10,431 --> 00:52:11,911 just to sort of-- you know, 1148 00:52:12,041 --> 00:52:15,088 my face turned red and it's just so enraging. 1149 00:52:15,219 --> 00:52:16,524 But you just learn to swallow your pride 1150 00:52:16,655 --> 00:52:18,309 and then you see your performance 1151 00:52:18,439 --> 00:52:20,920 and you see the take that when you did it your way 1152 00:52:21,050 --> 00:52:23,183 and then the take when you did it his way and you just go, 1153 00:52:23,314 --> 00:52:25,446 "Oh, he's right." 1154 00:52:25,577 --> 00:52:27,970 She was just cool. Joey was like, fun to be around. 1155 00:52:28,101 --> 00:52:29,711 Because I think he's funny. 1156 00:52:29,842 --> 00:52:31,191 - That helped. - I would really laugh hard-- 1157 00:52:31,322 --> 00:52:32,627 He could really make me laugh. 1158 00:52:32,758 --> 00:52:33,976 But not-- but it wasn't like-- 1159 00:52:34,107 --> 00:52:35,108 you didn't give it away for free. 1160 00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:36,762 You made me earn it and stuff, 1161 00:52:36,892 --> 00:52:38,677 but, like-- they were all top shelf. 1162 00:52:38,807 --> 00:52:39,982 The one time she said, like, 1163 00:52:40,113 --> 00:52:41,419 "You're the funniest person I know," 1164 00:52:41,549 --> 00:52:43,290 like, that's-- that's fucking everything. 1165 00:52:43,421 --> 00:52:45,118 ADAMS: It's nice when you do a dramatic scene. 1166 00:52:45,249 --> 00:52:47,425 They called cut and it was the greatest thing in the world 1167 00:52:47,555 --> 00:52:50,254 to have my boyfriend come over and-- and hold me. 1168 00:52:50,384 --> 00:52:53,953 She was literally my muse. I had a real insecurity 1169 00:52:54,083 --> 00:52:56,695 about, like, she had a bigger past than me. 1170 00:52:56,825 --> 00:53:01,090 The scene in "Chasing Amy" where Holden is like, baiting her... 1171 00:53:01,221 --> 00:53:03,354 Do you know a guy named Rick Derris? 1172 00:53:03,484 --> 00:53:05,094 [PLAYERS GRUNT] 1173 00:53:05,225 --> 00:53:07,793 - Rick Derris? - Yeah. 1174 00:53:07,923 --> 00:53:09,708 Sure. We used to hang out in high school. 1175 00:53:09,838 --> 00:53:10,709 SMITH: That was me. 1176 00:53:10,839 --> 00:53:12,972 I admired Kevin so much 1177 00:53:13,102 --> 00:53:17,237 because he had found such a strong voice 1178 00:53:17,368 --> 00:53:22,068 and knew who he was without having to go live in Bali. 1179 00:53:22,199 --> 00:53:24,505 ...Alyssa, with you, because... 1180 00:53:24,636 --> 00:53:26,507 I feel inadequate, 1181 00:53:26,638 --> 00:53:28,205 because you've had such a big life 1182 00:53:28,335 --> 00:53:31,164 and so much experience, and my life's been pretty small 1183 00:53:31,295 --> 00:53:32,600 in comparison. 1184 00:53:32,731 --> 00:53:34,167 That doesn't matter to me. 1185 00:53:34,298 --> 00:53:35,560 It did start functioning as I'd write a scene 1186 00:53:35,690 --> 00:53:36,604 and give it to her. 1187 00:53:36,735 --> 00:53:38,302 We'd talk about it and, like, 1188 00:53:38,432 --> 00:53:42,610 she'd get emotional because you were like, 1189 00:53:42,741 --> 00:53:45,657 "This is an apology." That scene in the movie is kind of like, 1190 00:53:45,787 --> 00:53:47,224 "Oh, Holden figured it out, too." 1191 00:53:47,354 --> 00:53:48,747 And then, of course, Holden figured it out 1192 00:53:48,877 --> 00:53:52,141 because the guy who writes for Holden figured it out. 1193 00:53:52,272 --> 00:53:54,492 Looks like a very personal story. 1194 00:53:58,365 --> 00:54:00,498 [SIGHS] 1195 00:54:00,628 --> 00:54:02,326 I finally had something personal to say. 1196 00:54:02,456 --> 00:54:04,328 RODGERS: "Chasing Amy" has touched me in ways 1197 00:54:04,458 --> 00:54:09,985 that I didn't anticipate. I wanted to feel love so badly 1198 00:54:10,116 --> 00:54:11,378 watching that movie. 1199 00:54:11,509 --> 00:54:13,206 I was like, "I want some of that." 1200 00:54:13,337 --> 00:54:15,121 It's a roadmap of how to not fuck up your relationship. 1201 00:54:24,261 --> 00:54:26,045 [LAUGHTER] 1202 00:54:29,135 --> 00:54:30,658 RILEY: I think even calling you "best friend," 1203 00:54:30,789 --> 00:54:32,530 it didn't cover what I felt for you. 1204 00:54:32,660 --> 00:54:33,748 ICE RINK 1205 00:54:33,879 --> 00:54:34,793 It was just like, this is, like, a soulmate. 1206 00:54:34,923 --> 00:54:37,491 We were bonded on, like, some next level. 1207 00:54:37,622 --> 00:54:40,581 I could talk to you about anything, 1208 00:54:40,712 --> 00:54:43,584 and you just kept me going. And, you know, 1209 00:54:43,715 --> 00:54:46,457 I think I did that for you, too. 1210 00:54:46,587 --> 00:54:49,895 You were so supportive at a time when I was... 1211 00:54:50,025 --> 00:54:51,636 so alone in the world. 1212 00:54:51,766 --> 00:54:53,899 I mean, it was dark times for both of us. 1213 00:54:54,029 --> 00:54:56,641 Every night you would just have, like, these dark thoughts. 1214 00:54:56,771 --> 00:54:59,557 You would just talk about how, you know, you hated-- 1215 00:54:59,687 --> 00:55:02,995 you hated school and, like, you hated your life. 1216 00:55:03,125 --> 00:55:05,650 The main thing was that you just felt, like, 1217 00:55:05,780 --> 00:55:08,043 so alone in the world. 1218 00:55:08,174 --> 00:55:10,263 And I just remember being, like, so adamant. 1219 00:55:10,394 --> 00:55:12,787 You have me, You have me, You have me. 1220 00:55:12,918 --> 00:55:14,920 Maybe it's not enough, but it's something. 1221 00:55:17,183 --> 00:55:20,534 I could just be this tiny, tiny thing 1222 00:55:20,665 --> 00:55:23,407 that maybe was worth it-- you know, staying alive. 1223 00:55:25,060 --> 00:55:27,324 I feel a lot of shame about that period. 1224 00:55:29,848 --> 00:55:31,458 - You shouldn't. - I do. 1225 00:55:31,589 --> 00:55:33,678 I feel so much shame because I put a lot on you. 1226 00:55:36,550 --> 00:55:38,335 But it's not about putting things on me. 1227 00:55:38,465 --> 00:55:40,685 We were-- even before we were dating, 1228 00:55:40,815 --> 00:55:42,600 we've always been a team. 1229 00:55:47,735 --> 00:55:49,302 Can we cut? 1230 00:56:00,531 --> 00:56:01,619 We about ready? 1231 00:56:03,621 --> 00:56:04,926 Everybody speeding? 1232 00:56:05,492 --> 00:56:07,146 "Chasing Amy," well received. 1233 00:56:07,276 --> 00:56:09,627 Gets great fucking reviews up there. 1234 00:56:09,757 --> 00:56:11,106 It did as it was intended. 1235 00:56:13,979 --> 00:56:15,850 Popped Joey in a big, bad way. 1236 00:56:15,981 --> 00:56:17,678 She was getting press like crazy. 1237 00:56:21,682 --> 00:56:23,292 - But it was-- - Well, I'm a fan of this one. 1238 00:56:23,423 --> 00:56:25,425 - [LAUGHS] - Sounds like-- 1239 00:56:25,556 --> 00:56:27,906 Her and I would do press together as well, 1240 00:56:28,036 --> 00:56:29,777 which was kind of fun. 1241 00:56:29,908 --> 00:56:34,956 And our relationship started kind of faltering and stuff. 1242 00:56:35,087 --> 00:56:36,915 Movie came out in April of '97. 1243 00:56:37,045 --> 00:56:42,094 We were broken up by July of '97 and the relationship was over. 1244 00:56:43,225 --> 00:56:44,879 You came on the show when "Chasing Amy" came out 1245 00:56:45,010 --> 00:56:46,881 and we were rooting for you then, 1246 00:56:47,012 --> 00:56:49,710 and this is very exciting and you deserve this. 1247 00:56:49,841 --> 00:56:52,452 The Golden Globes ceremony is going to be on January 18th, 1248 00:56:52,583 --> 00:56:54,019 so we'll cross our fingers for you. 1249 00:56:54,149 --> 00:56:55,455 Thanks so much for coming. 1250 00:56:55,586 --> 00:56:58,110 It's very easy to romanticize the end of the relationship 1251 00:56:58,240 --> 00:56:59,981 and be like, "Our relationship was sacrificed 1252 00:57:00,112 --> 00:57:01,809 on the altar of 'Chasing Amy.'" 1253 00:57:01,940 --> 00:57:04,943 Like that's where our relationship went. 1254 00:57:05,073 --> 00:57:06,423 Like, "I'm not saying if there was no movie, 1255 00:57:06,553 --> 00:57:08,120 we'd still be fucking together today." 1256 00:57:08,250 --> 00:57:11,819 Just putting everything out there probably brought it 1257 00:57:11,950 --> 00:57:15,170 to an end a lot sooner than it maybe might have naturally gone. 1258 00:57:15,301 --> 00:57:17,477 I never have a single regret about it. 1259 00:57:17,608 --> 00:57:19,174 There's no way I would be in a marriage 1260 00:57:19,305 --> 00:57:22,961 that has lasted 20 years if I didn't meet Joey 1261 00:57:23,091 --> 00:57:24,876 and she didn't shape me. 1262 00:57:25,006 --> 00:57:28,227 When you watch "Chasing Amy," the tail end of the movie, 1263 00:57:28,357 --> 00:57:30,708 and you get this feeling like he might figure it out one day. 1264 00:57:30,838 --> 00:57:34,712 And the scene in "Reboot" allows you proof that, 1265 00:57:34,842 --> 00:57:36,670 like, he worked it out. 1266 00:57:36,801 --> 00:57:37,715 Alyssa and I aren't married. 1267 00:57:37,845 --> 00:57:39,717 Married people don't like each other. 1268 00:57:39,847 --> 00:57:41,501 We're co-parents. 1269 00:57:41,632 --> 00:57:43,242 Wait a sec. You have a kid? 1270 00:57:43,372 --> 00:57:45,331 Yeah. Alyssa and her partner wanted to have a baby, 1271 00:57:45,462 --> 00:57:47,855 and since we've known each other, and more importantly, 1272 00:57:47,986 --> 00:57:50,292 liked each other for 20 years, they asked me to be the father. 1273 00:57:50,423 --> 00:57:52,381 In making that little "Chasing Amy" sequel 1274 00:57:52,512 --> 00:57:54,035 in the middle of "Reboot," 1275 00:57:54,166 --> 00:57:57,691 I kind of got to go and address the criticism. 1276 00:57:57,822 --> 00:57:59,563 It's always a story that should have been told 1277 00:57:59,693 --> 00:58:03,218 from a queer perspective or a woman's perspective 1278 00:58:03,349 --> 00:58:06,134 or any perspective other than cis white male's. 1279 00:58:06,265 --> 00:58:12,445 What was really beautiful to me was catching up with Kevin 1280 00:58:12,576 --> 00:58:16,362 and hearing him talk about where he was in his life 1281 00:58:16,493 --> 00:58:18,407 and where the scene came from for him. 1282 00:58:18,538 --> 00:58:19,757 SMITH: In the first draft of the scene, 1283 00:58:19,887 --> 00:58:23,108 Holden and Alyssa had sex to have the baby. 1284 00:58:23,238 --> 00:58:25,850 And so Joey was like, "Kevin, you can't do that." 1285 00:58:25,980 --> 00:58:29,593 Like, I just had a remarkable conversation with you 1286 00:58:29,723 --> 00:58:31,333 about how much the movie meant to you, 1287 00:58:31,464 --> 00:58:33,161 but I almost didn't. I almost just wrote back like, 1288 00:58:33,292 --> 00:58:35,120 "Oh, it's great. I love it. Can't wait to shoot it.' 1289 00:58:35,250 --> 00:58:37,426 How wonderful that somebody who is such a fan of the movie 1290 00:58:37,557 --> 00:58:39,385 affected what the storytelling would be. 1291 00:58:39,516 --> 00:58:41,039 That's crazy. 1292 00:58:41,169 --> 00:58:44,695 "Chasing Amy" has always, like, in a weird way, been part of-- 1293 00:58:44,825 --> 00:58:47,088 it's different in that way-- that Kevin and I were dating, 1294 00:58:47,219 --> 00:58:48,394 and he wrote it when we were dating, 1295 00:58:48,525 --> 00:58:51,136 and it's about part of our growth. 1296 00:58:51,266 --> 00:58:53,007 I walked out of that relationship fixed, 1297 00:58:53,138 --> 00:58:55,227 and nobody really can say that 1298 00:58:55,357 --> 00:58:56,837 at the end of a relationship. 1299 00:58:56,968 --> 00:58:58,578 It wasn't like we ended like, "See you later, pal." 1300 00:58:58,709 --> 00:59:00,145 Like, you know, it was kind of shitty. 1301 00:59:00,275 --> 00:59:01,886 Apparently, I wrote a passive aggressive letter 1302 00:59:02,016 --> 00:59:03,322 and just left Toronto. And left a broom. 1303 00:59:03,452 --> 00:59:04,758 And left a broom. Well, she said she needed 1304 00:59:04,889 --> 00:59:06,281 a broom, and it was such a fuck-you move 1305 00:59:06,412 --> 00:59:08,196 because she had told me, like, at one point, she's like, 1306 00:59:08,327 --> 00:59:09,763 "I need a broom for this place." 1307 00:59:09,894 --> 00:59:11,330 So I wrote this, like, Dear John breakup letter and shit, 1308 00:59:11,460 --> 00:59:13,158 and I went out of my way to buy her a broom 1309 00:59:13,288 --> 00:59:14,594 and left it with a note and it's like, 1310 00:59:14,725 --> 00:59:17,292 "P.S., They say it sweeps clean." 1311 00:59:19,599 --> 00:59:21,470 Oh, I was such an asshole. But in any event, 1312 00:59:21,601 --> 00:59:25,474 it was-- like, I became the person that I became 1313 00:59:25,605 --> 00:59:27,085 for the rest of my life because of that relationship. 1314 00:59:27,215 --> 00:59:30,436 I never went back to being the other guy. 1315 00:59:30,567 --> 00:59:34,832 Please know that I am forever changed 1316 00:59:34,962 --> 00:59:38,705 because of who you are and what you've meant to me. 1317 00:59:38,836 --> 00:59:40,489 Anyway. 1318 00:59:40,620 --> 00:59:42,883 RODGERS: That's all I got. Thank you both for this. 1319 00:59:43,014 --> 00:59:44,189 - This is amazing. - Thank you. 1320 00:59:44,319 --> 00:59:46,495 This is a dream fucking come true. 1321 00:59:46,626 --> 00:59:49,150 Excellent job. I'll see you tomorrow. 1322 00:59:49,281 --> 00:59:50,848 All right. Well done, kids. 1323 00:59:50,978 --> 00:59:52,197 What are you doing tomorrow? The one-on-one interview? 1324 00:59:52,327 --> 00:59:54,547 - Yeah. Yeah. - All right. 1325 00:59:54,678 --> 00:59:56,288 Finally. So great to meet you. 1326 00:59:56,418 --> 00:59:58,029 Guys, thank you so much for everything. 1327 00:59:58,159 --> 01:00:01,075 Excellent job. Look at you, making a movie. 1328 01:00:01,206 --> 01:00:03,077 I know how documentaries work, 1329 01:00:03,208 --> 01:00:04,383 and they always do this thing 1330 01:00:04,513 --> 01:00:05,776 where while the camera is rolling, 1331 01:00:05,906 --> 01:00:07,778 before you're actually asked a question, 1332 01:00:07,908 --> 01:00:10,955 they just, like, do this thing of like... 1333 01:00:11,085 --> 01:00:13,087 me being uncomfortable. 1334 01:00:14,828 --> 01:00:17,091 [LAUGHS] 1335 01:00:17,222 --> 01:00:17,918 RODGERS: I'm just gonna let you keep talking then. 1336 01:00:18,049 --> 01:00:19,224 [LAUGHTER] 1337 01:00:20,834 --> 01:00:24,969 In 1994, lesbians were not represented 1338 01:00:25,099 --> 01:00:27,885 except for movies like "Desert Hearts" 1339 01:00:28,015 --> 01:00:29,408 and "Claire of the Moon." 1340 01:00:29,538 --> 01:00:33,151 Sex between women is as raw as it gets. 1341 01:00:35,327 --> 01:00:40,245 What we did with "Go Fish" was life-changing. 1342 01:00:43,074 --> 01:00:44,423 Why are you taunting me? 1343 01:00:44,553 --> 01:00:45,946 I don't need to be reminded every day that 1344 01:00:46,077 --> 01:00:47,469 I haven't slept with a woman in ten months. 1345 01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:49,994 Got letters from everywhere. 1346 01:00:50,124 --> 01:00:54,302 Young women telling me that their lives have been changed 1347 01:00:54,433 --> 01:00:56,435 by seeing this movie. 1348 01:00:56,565 --> 01:01:00,613 We actually ended up becoming poster children for lesbianism. 1349 01:01:03,050 --> 01:01:04,704 I'm not going to lie, 1350 01:01:04,835 --> 01:01:09,622 it was very challenging that we made "Go Fish" 1351 01:01:09,753 --> 01:01:11,668 and Kevin met us 1352 01:01:11,798 --> 01:01:16,194 and he decided that this would be an interesting subject. 1353 01:01:16,324 --> 01:01:18,805 He was like, "What do lesbians do?" 1354 01:01:18,936 --> 01:01:21,460 And I just started talking about what it means to be gay 1355 01:01:21,590 --> 01:01:23,810 to the mainstream world for the first time in my life. 1356 01:01:23,941 --> 01:01:26,813 And so I-- you know, I just-- I'm like, "No, like, ask me. 1357 01:01:26,944 --> 01:01:29,076 Ask me what?" Now, watching "Chasing Amy," 1358 01:01:29,207 --> 01:01:31,513 I'm like, huh. 1359 01:01:31,644 --> 01:01:35,082 That idea-- when she says, like, you know, 1360 01:01:35,213 --> 01:01:38,129 "I want to go fuck this girl." And then he's like, 1361 01:01:38,259 --> 01:01:39,565 "What? How do you?" You said fuck. 1362 01:01:39,696 --> 01:01:41,828 She said fuck. You said fuck to that girl. 1363 01:01:41,959 --> 01:01:43,090 You said that you'd fuck her. 1364 01:01:43,221 --> 01:01:44,222 And? 1365 01:01:44,352 --> 01:01:45,527 It gets into a whole conversation 1366 01:01:45,658 --> 01:01:48,748 about the broader term of fucking versus penetration. 1367 01:01:48,879 --> 01:01:50,445 Well then what's with saying fuck? 1368 01:01:50,576 --> 01:01:52,012 Shouldn't you say "eat her out?" 1369 01:01:52,143 --> 01:01:53,187 Or at least modify the term "fuck" 1370 01:01:53,318 --> 01:01:54,798 with something like "fist?" 1371 01:01:54,928 --> 01:01:57,235 I'm like, "Hm, you're welcome, Kevin Smith." 1372 01:01:57,365 --> 01:01:59,237 That is 100% a conversation that we had. 1373 01:02:01,761 --> 01:02:04,633 Watching "Chasing Amy" all these years later, 1374 01:02:04,764 --> 01:02:08,246 Kevin Smith has an ear for dialog. 1375 01:02:08,376 --> 01:02:10,161 He's just really good at that. 1376 01:02:10,291 --> 01:02:15,340 There's so much in this movie that makes me just happy-- 1377 01:02:15,470 --> 01:02:19,997 happy to have been a part of it. It is heartfelt, it is lovely. 1378 01:02:20,127 --> 01:02:23,914 It's so within itself. It's so true. 1379 01:02:24,044 --> 01:02:27,656 There are a lot of, like, subtleties about friendships, 1380 01:02:27,787 --> 01:02:30,529 particularly friendships between men. 1381 01:02:30,659 --> 01:02:33,271 I feel generous in a way that I 100% didn't 1382 01:02:33,401 --> 01:02:34,968 when I was that age, 1383 01:02:35,099 --> 01:02:38,537 and I had various decades of dyke rage about it. 1384 01:02:38,667 --> 01:02:41,670 I was 25 years old, 1385 01:02:41,801 --> 01:02:44,238 and I had made a movie about dykes 1386 01:02:44,369 --> 01:02:45,326 that no one had ever seen. 1387 01:02:45,457 --> 01:02:48,982 And I watched him doing everything 1388 01:02:49,113 --> 01:02:50,984 and getting all the deals and all the things. 1389 01:02:51,115 --> 01:02:54,858 The winners are "Clerks," directed by Kevin Smith. 1390 01:02:54,988 --> 01:02:55,946 [CHEERS AND APPLAUSE] 1391 01:02:56,076 --> 01:02:57,643 Had our first screening, was really good, 1392 01:02:57,774 --> 01:02:59,471 and the second screening was was great, too. 1393 01:02:59,601 --> 01:03:00,472 There was a piece in the New York Times 1394 01:03:00,602 --> 01:03:01,603 about it as well. 1395 01:03:01,734 --> 01:03:02,735 So then the buzz started, 1396 01:03:02,866 --> 01:03:04,824 and after that we had a sit-down dinner 1397 01:03:04,955 --> 01:03:07,261 with Harvey Weinstein and Miramax, 1398 01:03:07,392 --> 01:03:10,221 and-- and they were into it and they picked it up. 1399 01:03:10,351 --> 01:03:13,224 TURNER: And I remember just, like, sitting with him, 1400 01:03:13,354 --> 01:03:16,183 just being like, "Dude, do you see what's happening? 1401 01:03:16,314 --> 01:03:19,447 Like, you're getting all the opportunities and I'm not." 1402 01:03:19,578 --> 01:03:23,538 He was like, "You're jealous, and you're being weird." 1403 01:03:23,669 --> 01:03:25,497 I don't think we-- either of us knew 1404 01:03:25,627 --> 01:03:26,933 exactly what was going to happen. 1405 01:03:27,064 --> 01:03:31,416 But what emerged was that 1406 01:03:31,546 --> 01:03:35,637 Kevin got an empire, and we were just some dykes. 1407 01:03:38,292 --> 01:03:40,468 So you make "Chasing Amy" 1408 01:03:40,599 --> 01:03:42,731 - for $250,000. - We did. 1409 01:03:42,862 --> 01:03:44,733 And you take the film back to Harvey Weinstein. 1410 01:03:44,864 --> 01:03:45,734 Yes. 1411 01:03:45,865 --> 01:03:48,868 So, as you know, we met with him up 1412 01:03:48,999 --> 01:03:52,089 at the Stein Eriksen Lodge, and I pitched, 1413 01:03:52,219 --> 01:03:53,568 "We're going to make the movie for this. 1414 01:03:53,699 --> 01:03:54,918 If you like it, you keep it. 1415 01:03:55,048 --> 01:03:56,441 If not, we take it out and sell it." 1416 01:03:56,571 --> 01:03:58,791 We took it back to him and showed him the movie 1417 01:03:58,922 --> 01:04:00,662 in the Tribeca screening room. 1418 01:04:00,793 --> 01:04:03,448 He's crying, Harvey. 1419 01:04:03,578 --> 01:04:07,408 And he goes, "That's a Miramax movie." 1420 01:04:07,539 --> 01:04:11,760 Which I loved at the time. I loved hearing that. 1421 01:04:11,891 --> 01:04:14,633 You know, I thought he was who I thought he was. 1422 01:04:14,763 --> 01:04:17,854 Now, put through the filter of what we know... 1423 01:04:19,812 --> 01:04:23,120 tough to fucking feel sentimental about it. 1424 01:04:23,250 --> 01:04:24,904 I mean, maybe that's how I do feel-- sentimental. 1425 01:04:25,035 --> 01:04:26,775 I go, "How sweet." 1426 01:04:26,906 --> 01:04:31,824 Like that, naive, like 26-27 year-old. 1427 01:04:31,955 --> 01:04:34,479 He just believed everything he was presented. 1428 01:04:34,609 --> 01:04:36,394 We go to Sundance with it. 1429 01:04:36,524 --> 01:04:38,918 It was an amazing evening and stuff. 1430 01:04:39,049 --> 01:04:41,181 Harvey had dollar signs in his eyes, 1431 01:04:41,312 --> 01:04:43,967 and fucking everybody was happy, 1432 01:04:44,097 --> 01:04:47,405 and it would have been great if it stayed that way. 1433 01:04:47,535 --> 01:04:49,929 This is Sundance '97. 1434 01:04:50,060 --> 01:04:53,454 So if you follow the Harvey Weinstein case, 1435 01:04:53,585 --> 01:04:57,197 that's the year with Rose McGowan at-- 1436 01:04:57,328 --> 01:04:59,199 where he attacks Rose McGowan. 1437 01:04:59,330 --> 01:05:02,637 All of this was happening while we were doing "Chasing Amy," 1438 01:05:02,768 --> 01:05:04,552 telling, you know, showing this movie 1439 01:05:04,683 --> 01:05:06,903 to the world that's very feminist 1440 01:05:07,033 --> 01:05:08,992 and, you know, kind of forward thinking and stuff. 1441 01:05:09,122 --> 01:05:11,603 I can't erase the past. 1442 01:05:11,733 --> 01:05:14,171 I can't go back and take his name off the fucking movies. 1443 01:05:14,301 --> 01:05:16,347 I don't even own the movies and shit like that. 1444 01:05:16,477 --> 01:05:20,438 I can't undo the fact that my career is tied up with him. 1445 01:05:25,922 --> 01:05:26,923 - Hi, Joey. - ADAMS: Hi. 1446 01:05:27,053 --> 01:05:27,967 - How are you? - Good. 1447 01:05:28,098 --> 01:05:29,099 Good. 1448 01:05:29,229 --> 01:05:30,448 - RODGERS: We're at your house. - We are. 1449 01:05:30,578 --> 01:05:31,405 Thank you for letting us be here. 1450 01:05:31,536 --> 01:05:32,841 JOEY: Yeah. 1451 01:05:32,972 --> 01:05:35,105 This is the first time there's been a film crew inside. 1452 01:05:35,235 --> 01:05:37,063 Ask me something I haven't been asked about "Chasing Amy." 1453 01:05:37,194 --> 01:05:38,064 Okay. 1454 01:05:38,195 --> 01:05:39,457 JOEY: That's a lot of pressure. 1455 01:05:39,587 --> 01:05:40,849 I think I can-- You know what? I think I can do it, though. 1456 01:05:40,980 --> 01:05:41,981 JOEY: Can you? 1457 01:05:42,112 --> 01:05:43,504 This moment is 13 years in the making. 1458 01:05:43,635 --> 01:05:45,115 I think the first time I saw it, 1459 01:05:45,245 --> 01:05:47,421 I was like, "This is a love story, and I want love." 1460 01:05:47,552 --> 01:05:49,467 Like I feel-- You know, I think the first time I saw it, 1461 01:05:49,597 --> 01:05:51,338 I was, like, very much Holden. 1462 01:05:51,469 --> 01:05:54,428 And then slowly, as I started to know more about my sexuality, 1463 01:05:54,559 --> 01:05:57,649 this is my only reference point to how I may feel 1464 01:05:57,779 --> 01:06:00,347 about having a fluid sexuality, right? 1465 01:06:00,478 --> 01:06:03,785 And that movie gave me that-- that reference point, 1466 01:06:03,916 --> 01:06:07,441 and it literally is how I came out to my mom was-- 1467 01:06:07,572 --> 01:06:08,921 because she didn't know what pansexual was. 1468 01:06:09,052 --> 01:06:11,141 I was like, "Do you remember 'Chasing Amy?' 1469 01:06:11,271 --> 01:06:12,794 I feel how Alyssa feels." 1470 01:06:12,925 --> 01:06:14,927 And that was the moment where my mom was like, 1471 01:06:15,058 --> 01:06:17,060 "Is that all? Is that what all this fuss has been about?" 1472 01:06:17,190 --> 01:06:18,148 [LAUGHS] 1473 01:06:18,278 --> 01:06:19,497 Well, you have a very cool mom. 1474 01:06:19,627 --> 01:06:21,238 A very cool mom. 1475 01:06:21,368 --> 01:06:23,196 But anyway, so I feel like I can ask you a question 1476 01:06:23,327 --> 01:06:25,894 that maybe you haven't been asked a thousand times before, 1477 01:06:26,025 --> 01:06:28,071 but I will have to ask you some very basic questions. 1478 01:06:28,201 --> 01:06:29,855 So you get this role. 1479 01:06:29,986 --> 01:06:32,466 It's written specifically for you, it's tailored for you. 1480 01:06:32,597 --> 01:06:33,815 And then, you know, but also, 1481 01:06:33,946 --> 01:06:35,730 there's this LGBTQ element of it. 1482 01:06:35,861 --> 01:06:39,996 Was that daunting to play, as somebody who's straight? 1483 01:06:40,126 --> 01:06:43,042 Slightly? I mean, I think because the script... 1484 01:06:45,088 --> 01:06:48,004 was somewhat personal between Kevin and I, 1485 01:06:48,134 --> 01:06:52,138 I felt I had a right to play the role to some degree. 1486 01:06:52,269 --> 01:06:54,575 And my biggest fear was, like, lipstick lesbian, 1487 01:06:54,706 --> 01:06:55,968 that sort of thing. 1488 01:06:56,099 --> 01:06:58,405 I didn't want her to seem like that. 1489 01:06:58,536 --> 01:07:01,408 And I just kept thinking like, you know, what am I going to do? 1490 01:07:01,539 --> 01:07:03,541 What am I going to do? What am I going to do? 1491 01:07:03,671 --> 01:07:05,021 And then I just realized that like, 1492 01:07:05,151 --> 01:07:06,848 I shouldn't do anything different. 1493 01:07:06,979 --> 01:07:09,851 It's not a haircut. It's not the jewelry. 1494 01:07:09,982 --> 01:07:12,724 It's not-- Am I going try and play her butch? Am I-- 1495 01:07:12,854 --> 01:07:14,682 Like, just play her authentic. 1496 01:07:14,813 --> 01:07:18,773 For me to try and, like, do what I think is gay 1497 01:07:18,904 --> 01:07:21,298 just seemed wrong. 1498 01:07:21,428 --> 01:07:23,169 Does it feel weird to be, 1499 01:07:23,300 --> 01:07:24,866 I don't know, like, the face of "Chasing Amy?" 1500 01:07:24,997 --> 01:07:26,694 Yes. Yes. 1501 01:07:29,219 --> 01:07:31,395 JOEY: Kevin wrote that movie, not me. 1502 01:07:31,525 --> 01:07:33,049 It was my story, to some degree, 1503 01:07:33,179 --> 01:07:37,009 but the film wasn't my truth. 1504 01:07:38,141 --> 01:07:39,272 If I were to have written a film 1505 01:07:39,403 --> 01:07:41,013 about Kevin and I's relationship, 1506 01:07:41,144 --> 01:07:42,928 it would have been-- it would not have been that film. 1507 01:07:44,408 --> 01:07:47,672 I was getting to play a character 1508 01:07:47,802 --> 01:07:49,674 that was complicated and amazing, 1509 01:07:49,804 --> 01:07:52,155 but for me to sort of take credit 1510 01:07:52,285 --> 01:07:55,941 for how it affected someone feels strange to me. 1511 01:07:56,072 --> 01:07:58,509 Whatever moved you was Kevin's truth. 1512 01:07:58,639 --> 01:08:01,120 It wasn't my truth. 1513 01:08:01,251 --> 01:08:05,255 It's weird for a stranger to put that on you. 1514 01:08:05,385 --> 01:08:07,605 There's a weird energy exchange right here, and it's-- 1515 01:08:07,735 --> 01:08:12,000 And I feel like-- Like, are you looking to me 1516 01:08:12,131 --> 01:08:13,654 for something that I can't give you? 1517 01:08:13,785 --> 01:08:15,308 I don't know what it is you want from me. 1518 01:08:15,439 --> 01:08:18,311 I don't know why you want to talk to me. 1519 01:08:18,442 --> 01:08:19,878 I don't know. 1520 01:08:20,008 --> 01:08:21,575 It's cool that I get to talk to you at all. 1521 01:08:21,706 --> 01:08:23,664 I hope we get to be friends after this or something. 1522 01:08:23,795 --> 01:08:25,057 Right, but it's more than that. 1523 01:08:25,188 --> 01:08:26,711 Like, you would not have, like-- 1524 01:08:26,841 --> 01:08:28,016 I mean, there's three cameras in this room. 1525 01:08:28,147 --> 01:08:29,975 - Right. - And you know what I mean? 1526 01:08:30,106 --> 01:08:31,759 Like, if you just wanted to talk to me, 1527 01:08:31,890 --> 01:08:33,239 you could have come to a convention I did. 1528 01:08:33,370 --> 01:08:36,155 - Sure. - And come up to the table. 1529 01:08:36,286 --> 01:08:38,636 Like it's, you know-- like it's more than just, like, 1530 01:08:38,766 --> 01:08:40,072 "I just wanted to meet you and talk to you." 1531 01:08:40,203 --> 01:08:42,161 Like, you wouldn't have... 1532 01:08:42,292 --> 01:08:44,076 been able to pull all of this together. 1533 01:08:44,207 --> 01:08:45,773 Maybe what I'm here for is, like, 1534 01:08:45,904 --> 01:08:47,514 we have been strangely connected 1535 01:08:47,645 --> 01:08:50,300 through my weird fixation on this movie. 1536 01:08:50,430 --> 01:08:52,867 While I think it's totally understandable 1537 01:08:52,998 --> 01:08:57,045 why I am fixated on this movie. I think it's really rad that, 1538 01:08:57,176 --> 01:08:58,873 you know, giving a fucking TED Talk about it. 1539 01:08:59,004 --> 01:09:02,747 You know, watching it 200 times to not kill myself. 1540 01:09:02,877 --> 01:09:04,314 - Right. Right. - You know, like that. 1541 01:09:04,444 --> 01:09:06,577 And that's not a thing I'm trying to put on anybody. 1542 01:09:06,707 --> 01:09:07,882 But like, that's literally what my life was. 1543 01:09:08,013 --> 01:09:12,409 My journey with it was so different from yours, 1544 01:09:12,539 --> 01:09:15,673 but it had just-- it had a profound effect on my life. 1545 01:09:18,197 --> 01:09:22,114 We really hated each other, and then we got together 1546 01:09:22,245 --> 01:09:23,637 and it's just great. 1547 01:09:23,768 --> 01:09:24,682 I'm so in love. 1548 01:09:24,812 --> 01:09:25,422 [LAUGHS] 1549 01:09:26,814 --> 01:09:28,381 JOEY: Kevin wasn't just, like, a boyfriend. 1550 01:09:28,512 --> 01:09:32,385 Kevin was a very profound relationship in my life. 1551 01:09:32,516 --> 01:09:36,868 How often do you sit with exes and go back down memory lane 1552 01:09:36,998 --> 01:09:38,609 about a film that you made together? 1553 01:09:38,739 --> 01:09:43,701 It wasn't fun getting shit constantly about having been 1554 01:09:43,831 --> 01:09:46,921 with other men, having gone to Bali. 1555 01:09:47,052 --> 01:09:49,620 There were fights and they were-- they hurt. 1556 01:09:49,750 --> 01:09:52,710 You know, it was painful. It was really, really painful. 1557 01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:54,581 As much as I loved Kevin, 1558 01:09:54,712 --> 01:09:56,496 it's really awful to be in a relationship with someone 1559 01:09:56,627 --> 01:09:59,151 who, like, never believes that you love them. 1560 01:09:59,282 --> 01:10:03,111 Why me? You know? Why-- Why now? 1561 01:10:03,242 --> 01:10:05,592 Where you're constantly having to be, like, 1562 01:10:05,723 --> 01:10:07,855 "But I wouldn't be with you if I didn't love you." 1563 01:10:07,986 --> 01:10:09,988 - Who's my favorite director? - WOMAN 2: Yeah. 1564 01:10:10,118 --> 01:10:11,903 - You can't ask me that. - WOMAN 2: Why not? 1565 01:10:12,033 --> 01:10:13,383 Because we'll fight all the way home. 1566 01:10:13,513 --> 01:10:15,211 Yeah, exactly. I got to go home with this guy. 1567 01:10:15,341 --> 01:10:17,038 Oh, no. 1568 01:10:17,169 --> 01:10:19,693 JOEY: It wasn't this cathartic thing that I think 1569 01:10:19,824 --> 01:10:21,042 it was for Kevin. 1570 01:10:21,173 --> 01:10:22,783 It's not like, you know-- 1571 01:10:22,914 --> 01:10:25,612 Like we did that movie and everything was resolved, 1572 01:10:25,743 --> 01:10:27,571 which Kevin talks kind of like... 1573 01:10:29,181 --> 01:10:30,878 He wrote the movie and figured it all out. 1574 01:10:31,009 --> 01:10:32,445 While we were making "Chasing Amy," 1575 01:10:32,576 --> 01:10:35,143 for the first time, I actually had this moment 1576 01:10:35,274 --> 01:10:37,494 where I was like, "My God, I think I've grown." 1577 01:10:37,624 --> 01:10:39,626 I was doing a lot of emotional directing. 1578 01:10:39,757 --> 01:10:41,149 I'm glad that he made a movie, 1579 01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:43,630 like, acknowledging that it's fucked up, 1580 01:10:43,761 --> 01:10:48,156 but it doesn't change the fact that, like, he made me feel bad 1581 01:10:48,287 --> 01:10:51,856 for having lived the life I had lived 1582 01:10:51,986 --> 01:10:53,597 and been who I had been. 1583 01:10:53,727 --> 01:10:54,380 Right. 1584 01:10:56,817 --> 01:10:58,036 Because he was insecure. 1585 01:10:59,864 --> 01:11:01,431 I still carried... 1586 01:11:03,128 --> 01:11:04,608 what he had put on me. 1587 01:11:06,566 --> 01:11:08,916 "You're with another man? How dare you?" 1588 01:11:09,047 --> 01:11:10,483 What the fuck's wrong with you? 1589 01:11:10,614 --> 01:11:11,397 How could you do all those things? 1590 01:11:11,528 --> 01:11:12,398 Easily! 1591 01:11:14,226 --> 01:11:15,271 - RODGERS: It's a lot. - Yeah. 1592 01:11:15,401 --> 01:11:15,967 Wow. 1593 01:11:17,490 --> 01:11:19,884 That's-- That's, like, an enduring kind of, 1594 01:11:20,014 --> 01:11:21,015 like, fucked up thing. 1595 01:11:21,146 --> 01:11:22,452 Yeah. 1596 01:11:22,582 --> 01:11:23,888 And now there's this, like, really neat little movie 1597 01:11:24,018 --> 01:11:25,672 where everything is, like, kind of tied up in a bow 1598 01:11:25,803 --> 01:11:27,370 because he gives a speech in a diner. 1599 01:11:27,500 --> 01:11:30,895 But what I did not get-- she didn't care. 1600 01:11:31,025 --> 01:11:32,723 She wasn't looking for that guy anymore. 1601 01:11:32,853 --> 01:11:34,551 She was-- she was looking for me-- for-- for the Bob. 1602 01:11:34,681 --> 01:11:37,031 And it's like, everything wasn't okay. 1603 01:11:37,162 --> 01:11:39,991 We had still lived through that. 1604 01:11:40,121 --> 01:11:42,254 By the time I figured this all out, 1605 01:11:42,385 --> 01:11:43,342 it's too late. 1606 01:11:43,473 --> 01:11:44,517 - She moved on. - JOEY: I love the movie. 1607 01:11:44,648 --> 01:11:45,866 I'm glad I made it, but it's, like, 1608 01:11:45,997 --> 01:11:48,782 I had to take all of that and put it back on Kevin 1609 01:11:48,913 --> 01:11:51,307 because it's not mine to carry. 1610 01:11:51,437 --> 01:11:52,438 RODGERS: It's a lot to deal with. 1611 01:11:54,440 --> 01:11:55,876 Wow. Sorry. I'm still-- 1612 01:11:56,007 --> 01:11:57,269 - I'm just processing all this. - No, no, no, no. 1613 01:11:57,400 --> 01:12:00,490 Um, wow. I love that this is, like, 1614 01:12:00,620 --> 01:12:02,666 unlike any "Chasing Amy" interview I've ever done. 1615 01:12:02,796 --> 01:12:04,407 - See? - And I might regret it. 1616 01:12:04,537 --> 01:12:06,539 - I don't know, but-- - RODGERS: I hope not. 1617 01:12:06,670 --> 01:12:08,541 I don't love looking back on that time. 1618 01:12:08,672 --> 01:12:11,283 It brings up, like, all of those-- 1619 01:12:11,414 --> 01:12:14,460 those feelings of, like, that-- not just boyfriends, 1620 01:12:14,591 --> 01:12:18,203 but, like, casting directors and producers of just like, 1621 01:12:18,334 --> 01:12:20,074 "You're just a piece of meat. You're a whore." 1622 01:12:20,205 --> 01:12:21,815 I know that he gets asked that since we date, 1623 01:12:21,946 --> 01:12:25,428 like, what do I look like naked and things like that. 1624 01:12:25,558 --> 01:12:27,517 "What's it like sleeping with her?" 1625 01:12:27,647 --> 01:12:29,606 JOEY: That was when Harvey was around, who treated me like shit. 1626 01:12:29,736 --> 01:12:31,912 And I was, like, a young actress in Hollywood, 1627 01:12:32,043 --> 01:12:35,307 going through all those stories that you've heard. 1628 01:12:35,438 --> 01:12:36,569 - Me like you. - [LAUGHS] 1629 01:12:36,700 --> 01:12:37,831 Oh, I like you. 1630 01:12:37,962 --> 01:12:39,050 Hi. 1631 01:12:39,180 --> 01:12:40,834 JOEY: Sundance, for me, was like, 1632 01:12:40,965 --> 01:12:44,577 "Oh, Harvey's, like-- doesn't want to fuck me, so--" 1633 01:12:44,708 --> 01:12:46,100 You know, and there was that energy there. 1634 01:12:46,231 --> 01:12:48,451 I mean, we all knew who Harvey was. 1635 01:12:50,104 --> 01:12:52,803 You'd be in a room with him and you could feel it. 1636 01:12:52,933 --> 01:12:54,239 Rose was getting raped. 1637 01:12:54,370 --> 01:12:57,634 You know, there was another side to-- 1638 01:12:57,764 --> 01:13:00,027 to the, like, "We made a movie that went to Sundance, 1639 01:13:00,158 --> 01:13:02,856 and it did really well." And there's a dark side, too. 1640 01:13:02,987 --> 01:13:04,336 I don't wish that like, "God, 1641 01:13:04,467 --> 01:13:06,599 I wish we were back doing 'Chasing Amy.'" 1642 01:13:06,730 --> 01:13:09,210 Like, that was not, like, the best time in life for me. 1643 01:13:10,864 --> 01:13:12,126 MAN 3: So how do you feel about being nominated tonight? 1644 01:13:12,257 --> 01:13:13,563 It's wonderful. 1645 01:13:13,693 --> 01:13:14,564 I mean, MTV, it's-- I think that's more my audience 1646 01:13:14,694 --> 01:13:17,305 with a film like "Chasing Amy." 1647 01:13:17,436 --> 01:13:18,524 So it's an honor. 1648 01:13:18,655 --> 01:13:19,786 It really is. 1649 01:13:19,917 --> 01:13:22,659 It's that A.D. who's like, "Come sit in my lap. 1650 01:13:22,789 --> 01:13:23,573 Come sit in my lap. 1651 01:13:23,703 --> 01:13:24,878 Come on. It's just fun." 1652 01:13:25,009 --> 01:13:25,705 Did I make you uncomfortable? 1653 01:13:25,836 --> 01:13:26,967 - No, no, no, no. - I'm sorry. 1654 01:13:27,098 --> 01:13:28,926 You know how to make a boy feel horny. 1655 01:13:29,056 --> 01:13:31,015 And you have to do it because you can't be the actress 1656 01:13:31,145 --> 01:13:32,364 that's like, "Fuck you. 1657 01:13:32,495 --> 01:13:34,148 I'm not going to sit in your lap." 1658 01:13:34,279 --> 01:13:36,020 Then you're difficult and no one wants to work with you. 1659 01:13:36,150 --> 01:13:38,109 I went back through my IMDb, 1660 01:13:38,239 --> 01:13:40,677 of just like, "Oh, right, on this movie... 1661 01:13:40,807 --> 01:13:42,853 Oh, and on that movie... and on that movie, 1662 01:13:42,983 --> 01:13:44,811 the actor would come in and show us his dick." 1663 01:13:44,942 --> 01:13:48,511 I hated Harvey. I hated being around him, 1664 01:13:48,641 --> 01:13:50,730 and I hated how Kevin had to kiss his ass. 1665 01:13:50,861 --> 01:13:52,428 And it's, like, it's hard to go in as an actress 1666 01:13:52,558 --> 01:13:53,864 and like, knowing that, like, 1667 01:13:53,994 --> 01:13:55,605 Harvey doesn't want you to play the role. 1668 01:13:55,735 --> 01:13:58,216 And then for him to never call and just be like, 1669 01:13:58,346 --> 01:14:00,436 "God, I've seen dailies, Joey, and you're doing a great job." 1670 01:14:00,566 --> 01:14:03,395 Like he's just a fucking asshole. 1671 01:14:03,526 --> 01:14:05,745 Like, that's what I was doing in my 20s. 1672 01:14:05,876 --> 01:14:11,403 I was trying to, like, be taken seriously as an actress, 1673 01:14:11,534 --> 01:14:13,666 and then I was dating this guy 1674 01:14:13,797 --> 01:14:17,322 who made me feel bad about myself. 1675 01:14:20,238 --> 01:14:22,066 [INDISTINCT CONVERSATIONS] 1676 01:14:22,196 --> 01:14:24,372 MAN 4: Tonight's nominees for Best Performance by an Actress 1677 01:14:24,503 --> 01:14:27,941 in a Motion Picture, Musical, or Comedy are... 1678 01:14:28,072 --> 01:14:30,378 Joey Lauren Adams, "Chasing Amy." 1679 01:14:31,641 --> 01:14:33,077 JOEY: You see why when you're like, 1680 01:14:33,207 --> 01:14:35,122 "Oh my God, 'Chasing Amy' and this great--" 1681 01:14:35,253 --> 01:14:37,473 And, like, again, yes, the movie is great and it's amazing, 1682 01:14:37,603 --> 01:14:39,692 but it's, like, I have my own story with, like, 1683 01:14:39,823 --> 01:14:42,260 what was going on in my life when-- at that age 1684 01:14:42,390 --> 01:14:44,088 and what surrounds that. 1685 01:14:44,218 --> 01:14:47,874 And it's those guys-- having to go to dinner with old men 1686 01:14:48,005 --> 01:14:51,574 and being promised roles and not getting them. 1687 01:14:51,704 --> 01:14:54,315 And for Kevin, it's a funny fucking story. 1688 01:14:56,187 --> 01:14:56,840 RODGERS: Yeah. 1689 01:15:00,408 --> 01:15:02,454 And not to say that Kevin writing that movie 1690 01:15:02,585 --> 01:15:05,588 didn't mean a lot to me. 1691 01:15:05,718 --> 01:15:07,503 You know, that he could see at least, 1692 01:15:07,633 --> 01:15:09,374 like, what he was doing was wrong. 1693 01:15:09,505 --> 01:15:12,333 But it doesn't change the two years that, like, I lived it. 1694 01:15:15,032 --> 01:15:19,297 RODGERS: I'm really grateful still that you were in this movie. 1695 01:15:19,427 --> 01:15:21,995 I am, too. I mean, I'm incredibly grateful. 1696 01:15:23,083 --> 01:15:27,131 And I'm-- And I'm-- you know, I am so happy that... 1697 01:15:27,261 --> 01:15:28,872 that it saved your life. 1698 01:15:29,002 --> 01:15:30,874 From the pain and the fucked-up-ness 1699 01:15:31,004 --> 01:15:33,485 and everything, that something this beautiful came from it 1700 01:15:33,616 --> 01:15:35,269 is incredible. 1701 01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:36,749 It could have just been pain and fucked-up-ness 1702 01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:39,839 and you know, nothing ever happened. 1703 01:15:39,970 --> 01:15:43,800 But that Kevin was able to make something beautiful from it-- 1704 01:15:43,930 --> 01:15:47,238 like, that's-- that's what's incredible. 1705 01:15:47,368 --> 01:15:48,761 Not me, you know? 1706 01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:58,641 RODGERS: I went back to Kansas after the Joey interview. 1707 01:15:58,771 --> 01:16:02,079 I needed a bit of a break from making this movie. 1708 01:16:06,170 --> 01:16:07,954 - Okay, well. - RILEY: I can do it. 1709 01:16:09,260 --> 01:16:11,088 - Is that how you cut hair? - Yeah. 1710 01:16:11,218 --> 01:16:13,046 RODGERS: My grandma got sick with cancer. 1711 01:16:13,177 --> 01:16:15,309 I wanted to spend time with her, I'd also just come out as trans. 1712 01:16:15,440 --> 01:16:18,748 And I really wanted to transition privately, 1713 01:16:18,878 --> 01:16:20,271 with my family's support. 1714 01:16:20,401 --> 01:16:22,447 I've never had a partner cut my hair before. 1715 01:16:22,578 --> 01:16:25,232 You've never had a partner before? 1716 01:16:25,363 --> 01:16:26,843 I-- I dated people before you. 1717 01:16:26,973 --> 01:16:28,627 And I really needed perspective. 1718 01:16:28,758 --> 01:16:31,891 Was I naive to go into that interview the way I did? 1719 01:16:32,022 --> 01:16:34,198 Do you want that, like, completely above your ear or? 1720 01:16:34,328 --> 01:16:35,982 Hey, Mom. Can you help her? 1721 01:16:36,113 --> 01:16:37,505 Just-- It's about what you want. 1722 01:16:37,636 --> 01:16:38,506 I don't know how to-- 1723 01:16:38,637 --> 01:16:39,638 This is finally your opportunity. 1724 01:16:39,769 --> 01:16:41,248 I don't know how to answer that question. 1725 01:16:42,206 --> 01:16:43,773 I just needed a minute to collect myself 1726 01:16:43,903 --> 01:16:46,558 and to not live in "Chasing Amy" world. 1727 01:16:46,689 --> 01:16:48,342 I'll organize socks. 1728 01:16:48,473 --> 01:16:50,823 Yeah, I was going to say that, because that's about 1729 01:16:50,954 --> 01:16:53,957 where your area of expertise begins and ends. 1730 01:16:54,087 --> 01:16:54,784 Wow. 1731 01:16:54,914 --> 01:16:55,349 [LAUGHS] 1732 01:16:57,917 --> 01:16:59,876 Thank you for doing the laundry. 1733 01:17:00,006 --> 01:17:01,529 You're welcome. 1734 01:17:01,660 --> 01:17:03,749 I kind of lost steam-- 1735 01:17:03,880 --> 01:17:07,623 lost a sense of purpose-- where I was at with the documentary, 1736 01:17:07,753 --> 01:17:11,191 what I wanted to do, who I want to be. 1737 01:17:11,322 --> 01:17:12,932 [PEOPLE CHEER] 1738 01:17:13,063 --> 01:17:15,239 - Happy birthday. - Happy birthday. 1739 01:17:15,369 --> 01:17:16,806 - RODGERS: Hello. - Hello. 1740 01:17:16,936 --> 01:17:19,025 - You look cute. - Thanks. 1741 01:17:19,156 --> 01:17:20,810 - Do you like my camera? - I do. 1742 01:17:20,940 --> 01:17:22,768 - It's very high tech. - I know. 1743 01:17:22,899 --> 01:17:25,249 Look at that. It's the future. 1744 01:17:25,379 --> 01:17:26,598 Oh, you can see my mustache. 1745 01:17:29,079 --> 01:17:30,689 Of course you can. 1746 01:17:30,820 --> 01:17:32,691 It's barely there, but you can see it. 1747 01:17:32,822 --> 01:17:34,911 After a while, I reached out to Kevin, 1748 01:17:35,041 --> 01:17:37,087 and I was just like, "Hey, man, can we just, like, catch up?" 1749 01:17:39,916 --> 01:17:43,354 I got to say, before, when we first snapped onto Zoom 1750 01:17:43,484 --> 01:17:45,748 and I had my-- my windows blocked 1751 01:17:45,878 --> 01:17:47,488 because I was closing other windows, 1752 01:17:47,619 --> 01:17:49,012 so I didn't see you. 1753 01:17:49,142 --> 01:17:51,014 Yeah. And it threw me because I was like, 1754 01:17:51,144 --> 01:17:54,844 Oh, Sav is having me set up with some tech, 1755 01:17:54,974 --> 01:17:57,760 because it did not sound like your voice. 1756 01:17:57,890 --> 01:18:00,066 That's six months on testosterone, my dude. 1757 01:18:00,197 --> 01:18:02,765 So I've got, like, a more noticeable mustache, 1758 01:18:02,895 --> 01:18:05,115 and then I've got, like, a lot of hair under here, 1759 01:18:05,245 --> 01:18:07,204 but you can't really see it 1760 01:18:07,334 --> 01:18:08,814 because I have that Zoom filter on that makes you look better. 1761 01:18:08,945 --> 01:18:09,859 [LAUGHS] 1762 01:18:09,989 --> 01:18:11,295 I don't know about that filter. 1763 01:18:11,425 --> 01:18:13,819 In the next decade, I'll have the the beautiful beard 1764 01:18:13,950 --> 01:18:16,256 that I've always, like, wanted and seen myself having, 1765 01:18:16,387 --> 01:18:16,996 I'm excited. 1766 01:18:17,127 --> 01:18:18,041 Like, I know who I am. 1767 01:18:18,171 --> 01:18:19,782 You know, it's been a long process to, 1768 01:18:19,912 --> 01:18:24,090 like, accept myself, and it was really fucking scary. 1769 01:18:24,221 --> 01:18:26,789 And, you know, I'm grateful for your support. 1770 01:18:26,919 --> 01:18:29,356 It was just nice to have an outside person who, like, 1771 01:18:29,487 --> 01:18:32,272 I finally told to just say like, "Hey, man, you're okay. 1772 01:18:32,403 --> 01:18:34,100 Like, you're going to be fine if you do this." 1773 01:18:34,231 --> 01:18:36,276 To me, it was like, it's so weird 1774 01:18:36,407 --> 01:18:38,583 because almost from the beginning of our relationship, 1775 01:18:38,714 --> 01:18:41,412 it was, like, a matter of fact. 1776 01:18:41,542 --> 01:18:43,283 Well, I wanted you to know me. 1777 01:18:43,414 --> 01:18:45,721 It's also a fascinating part of the story. 1778 01:18:45,851 --> 01:18:48,071 Like, you know, first off, 1779 01:18:48,201 --> 01:18:51,422 I find you by the video, the TED Talk, 1780 01:18:51,552 --> 01:18:53,772 and I was like, "Oh, my God. Like, it's--" 1781 01:18:53,903 --> 01:18:56,079 Here's somebody saying nice things about "Chasing Amy" 1782 01:18:56,209 --> 01:18:57,689 in 2020. 1783 01:18:57,820 --> 01:18:59,560 Like, that's-- that's rare. 1784 01:18:59,691 --> 01:19:00,605 But then when we meet, 1785 01:19:00,736 --> 01:19:03,303 it's like, this story is going on, 1786 01:19:03,434 --> 01:19:06,872 it's still developing, and it's the story of your life. 1787 01:19:07,003 --> 01:19:11,616 And in an odd way, our life stories have now intersected. 1788 01:19:11,747 --> 01:19:14,793 I feel lucky that that you've given me so much of your time 1789 01:19:14,924 --> 01:19:16,708 and your friendship and mentorship, 1790 01:19:16,839 --> 01:19:18,971 whatever the fuck this is, like, I'm just grateful for that. 1791 01:19:19,102 --> 01:19:21,234 Are you kidding me? As a story teller, 1792 01:19:21,365 --> 01:19:24,977 to have somebody talk about the deep impact 1793 01:19:25,108 --> 01:19:29,068 that something you created made on their life and stuff-- 1794 01:19:29,199 --> 01:19:31,810 it was just confirmation 1795 01:19:31,941 --> 01:19:33,594 that you don't get very often in life. 1796 01:19:33,725 --> 01:19:35,683 It was the gift of self back. 1797 01:19:35,814 --> 01:19:37,294 The first time we ever talked, you were like, 1798 01:19:37,424 --> 01:19:38,948 "You can never bother me." 1799 01:19:39,078 --> 01:19:40,732 And you explicitly said that to me. 1800 01:19:40,863 --> 01:19:43,126 And while I sometimes feel like I am bothering you 1801 01:19:43,256 --> 01:19:45,519 just by virtue of I know that you're busy, 1802 01:19:45,650 --> 01:19:50,089 I do appreciate everything that you've given me, too. 1803 01:19:50,220 --> 01:19:54,659 You've been there for me before you were there for me. 1804 01:19:54,790 --> 01:19:57,053 It's not just "Chasing Amy" at this point. 1805 01:19:57,183 --> 01:19:59,098 I gained a friend. 1806 01:19:59,229 --> 01:20:00,578 It's me paying you back. 1807 01:20:00,708 --> 01:20:02,058 It's not vice versa. 1808 01:20:02,188 --> 01:20:04,712 Don't you get it? Like fucking that-- 1809 01:20:04,843 --> 01:20:09,021 What you did, how do I pay that fucking back? 1810 01:20:09,152 --> 01:20:11,458 You gave me my movie back. 1811 01:20:18,683 --> 01:20:20,728 - Are you eating a sandwich? - Yes. 1812 01:20:20,859 --> 01:20:22,513 Thank you for making this sandwich, Mom. 1813 01:20:22,643 --> 01:20:23,775 [LAUGHS] 1814 01:20:23,906 --> 01:20:25,777 Provided by your mother. 1815 01:20:27,474 --> 01:20:29,563 RODGERS: I don't know what I learned from this whole thing. 1816 01:20:29,694 --> 01:20:34,090 I'm a fundamentally different person now. 1817 01:20:34,220 --> 01:20:35,831 Like, I feel guilty about the TED Talk sometimes 1818 01:20:35,961 --> 01:20:37,963 because I feel like you think it's, 1819 01:20:38,094 --> 01:20:42,489 like, Exhibit "A" of, like, what you call bad parenting. 1820 01:20:42,620 --> 01:20:45,362 And I'm like, "You're the hero in that fucking story." 1821 01:20:45,492 --> 01:20:47,451 Like, you are. 1822 01:20:47,581 --> 01:20:50,367 I knew that if I told you everything, 1823 01:20:50,497 --> 01:20:52,195 every fucked up thing that people did, 1824 01:20:52,325 --> 01:20:55,938 I would have to acknowledge that those things were happening. 1825 01:20:56,068 --> 01:20:57,417 I think it was, like, an internalized way of, like, 1826 01:20:57,548 --> 01:20:59,245 "I don't want my mom to know I'm such a loser." 1827 01:20:59,376 --> 01:21:00,856 Like, that wasn't, like, my thought process-- 1828 01:21:00,986 --> 01:21:02,770 - Oh, Sav! - What? 1829 01:21:02,901 --> 01:21:04,947 Oh, you're breaking my fucking heart, kid. 1830 01:21:05,077 --> 01:21:06,600 I mean, but, like-- the fact that 1831 01:21:06,731 --> 01:21:09,255 you let me watch cool movies was, like, 1832 01:21:09,386 --> 01:21:12,128 the bit of solace I had when I was fundamentally 1833 01:21:12,258 --> 01:21:15,305 unable to communicate any of these things to anybody. 1834 01:21:15,435 --> 01:21:17,002 That's good. 1835 01:21:19,700 --> 01:21:23,139 The hardest thing about being a parent 1836 01:21:23,269 --> 01:21:24,923 is watching your child... 1837 01:21:27,317 --> 01:21:32,235 hurt and not being able to fix it. 1838 01:21:32,365 --> 01:21:33,627 I just made so many choices 1839 01:21:33,758 --> 01:21:38,067 that were absolutely the wrong choice, 1840 01:21:38,197 --> 01:21:41,505 not just for you, but for me, you know, for us. 1841 01:21:41,635 --> 01:21:44,073 But I mean, I think you are absolutely 1842 01:21:44,203 --> 01:21:47,859 the hero of of the story. 1843 01:21:47,990 --> 01:21:52,472 I know it's hard on you sometimes, kid, but... 1844 01:21:52,603 --> 01:21:54,126 you're the one. 1845 01:21:57,825 --> 01:21:59,479 And a lot of things could have been better for you, 1846 01:21:59,610 --> 01:22:02,221 you know, that I just didn't really know about. 1847 01:22:02,352 --> 01:22:03,483 I didn't know about it either. 1848 01:22:03,614 --> 01:22:04,702 [LAUGHS] 1849 01:22:04,832 --> 01:22:06,834 I couldn't even Google trans stuff 1850 01:22:06,965 --> 01:22:08,967 because I was afraid it would make it real. 1851 01:22:09,098 --> 01:22:10,534 Couldn't even tell-- I couldn't tell you. 1852 01:22:10,664 --> 01:22:11,622 I couldn't tell Riley. 1853 01:22:11,752 --> 01:22:12,840 I was worried Riley would leave me. 1854 01:22:12,971 --> 01:22:16,409 She liked very feminine girls. I was never a girl. 1855 01:22:16,540 --> 01:22:19,891 [CHILDREN SHOUTING] 1856 01:22:20,022 --> 01:22:21,849 [INDISTINCT CONVERSATION] 1857 01:22:23,503 --> 01:22:25,679 - Ready? - No. 1858 01:22:25,810 --> 01:22:28,421 Let's talk about the fact that you still call yourself 1859 01:22:28,552 --> 01:22:30,946 a lesbian, despite being married to a man. 1860 01:22:31,076 --> 01:22:35,080 Very Alyssa of you. Can you talk about the weight 1861 01:22:35,211 --> 01:22:39,084 of other people's opinions on how you identify yourself? 1862 01:22:39,215 --> 01:22:44,568 It was a journey because, you know, it all came to happen 1863 01:22:44,698 --> 01:22:47,484 when I was starting to live my life, 1864 01:22:47,614 --> 01:22:50,443 you know, more freely as, like, 1865 01:22:50,574 --> 01:22:54,970 an out and proud queer person. 1866 01:22:55,100 --> 01:23:00,801 So I did start feeling a little bit conflicted, 1867 01:23:00,932 --> 01:23:04,544 but I think that's why "Chasing Amy" was so important 1868 01:23:04,675 --> 01:23:07,895 to me, because it made me realize 1869 01:23:08,026 --> 01:23:12,335 how labels were really not important. 1870 01:23:12,465 --> 01:23:15,729 And I remember, like, the impact that Alyssa monologue had on me, 1871 01:23:15,860 --> 01:23:17,688 and I was like, "She knows." 1872 01:23:17,818 --> 01:23:19,733 I feel justified lying in your arms... 1873 01:23:21,779 --> 01:23:23,737 because I got here on my own terms. 1874 01:23:23,868 --> 01:23:28,873 As empowering as it is to have a label for yourself... 1875 01:23:30,483 --> 01:23:33,269 And I have no question there was someplace I didn't look. 1876 01:23:33,399 --> 01:23:38,100 ...I don't have to explain myself to anybody. 1877 01:23:38,230 --> 01:23:41,668 So in the end, all that matters to me is you. 1878 01:23:41,799 --> 01:23:45,803 Because this is my husband, and this is the love of my life. 1879 01:23:45,933 --> 01:23:49,589 Did you ever consider leaving me when I came out as trans? 1880 01:23:51,330 --> 01:23:56,770 No, because we had been together for so long 1881 01:23:56,901 --> 01:24:01,036 and we had been friends for even longer. 1882 01:24:01,166 --> 01:24:03,821 Life without you was not an option. 1883 01:24:03,951 --> 01:24:05,562 What happened to me in that moment 1884 01:24:05,692 --> 01:24:09,522 was that I just kind of started freaking out about like, 1885 01:24:09,653 --> 01:24:11,350 "What am I going to tell people? 1886 01:24:11,481 --> 01:24:16,660 Because I was just going around yelling, 'I'm a lesbian,' 1887 01:24:16,790 --> 01:24:19,358 Now I'm with a man." And then I was like, 1888 01:24:19,489 --> 01:24:21,839 "Well, you know what? 1889 01:24:21,969 --> 01:24:24,407 This is nobody's business but mine." 1890 01:24:24,537 --> 01:24:28,063 I love you, and I'm attracted to you. 1891 01:24:28,193 --> 01:24:31,675 Just be in love and just honestly-- 1892 01:24:31,805 --> 01:24:34,069 just celebrate the fact that Sav... 1893 01:24:36,636 --> 01:24:40,205 can finally be happy and live his truth. 1894 01:24:42,251 --> 01:24:44,340 - Good answer. - RILEY: Yeah. 1895 01:24:44,470 --> 01:24:46,559 I think it's your turn to ask me some questions. 1896 01:24:46,690 --> 01:24:48,257 So... 1897 01:24:52,565 --> 01:24:54,915 The Joey interview. 1898 01:24:55,046 --> 01:24:56,352 Yeah, the Joey interview. 1899 01:24:58,223 --> 01:25:00,312 RILEY: What were you thinking? 1900 01:25:00,443 --> 01:25:02,619 RODGERS: The interview with Joey was definitely a turning point. 1901 01:25:02,749 --> 01:25:04,751 I learned a lot that day. 1902 01:25:04,882 --> 01:25:07,493 I'm sure it's much worse for Joey, having "Chasing Amy" 1903 01:25:07,624 --> 01:25:09,408 be her most well-known movie when she has 1904 01:25:09,539 --> 01:25:12,716 all of these negative feelings associated with it 1905 01:25:12,846 --> 01:25:16,807 than it was for me to sit there and have to grow up real fast 1906 01:25:16,937 --> 01:25:19,940 and to realign my expectations. 1907 01:25:20,071 --> 01:25:21,986 I don't need "Chasing Amy" the way that I used to, 1908 01:25:22,117 --> 01:25:23,988 and I shouldn't. 1909 01:25:24,119 --> 01:25:25,990 It was a life raft when I needed it. 1910 01:25:26,121 --> 01:25:27,122 And now... 1911 01:25:32,039 --> 01:25:33,998 Now I have new dreams. 1912 01:25:36,174 --> 01:25:37,871 WOMAN 3: This is "I Love You, Margot Robbie," 1913 01:25:38,002 --> 01:25:40,657 written by Sav Rodgers and Taylor Gates. 1914 01:25:40,787 --> 01:25:44,400 [CHEERS AND APPLAUSE] 1915 01:25:46,010 --> 01:25:48,578 Are you actually the real Margot Robbie? 1916 01:25:48,708 --> 01:25:51,189 If I'm not, I paid way too much for the sign. 1917 01:25:51,320 --> 01:25:51,711 [LAUGHTER] 1918 01:25:52,756 --> 01:25:53,670 RODGERS: Got married. 1919 01:26:07,162 --> 01:26:09,120 RODGERS: Moved multiple times. 1920 01:26:13,646 --> 01:26:15,953 Uh, pugs, excuse me. 1921 01:26:16,083 --> 01:26:17,259 [RILEY LAUGHS] 1922 01:26:17,389 --> 01:26:18,347 RILEY: We moved to Vegas. 1923 01:26:18,477 --> 01:26:20,740 Moved out of your parents' basement. 1924 01:26:20,871 --> 01:26:23,569 - RODGERS: Mm-hmm. - RILEY: How are you liking that? 1925 01:26:23,700 --> 01:26:25,223 RODGERS: I like living with you great. 1926 01:26:25,354 --> 01:26:26,616 You are my favorite roommate I've ever had. 1927 01:26:28,792 --> 01:26:33,013 I've been making a documentary that forces me to be reflexive 1928 01:26:33,144 --> 01:26:36,103 on the nature of my identity 1929 01:26:36,234 --> 01:26:37,844 and be in a pretty vulnerable state 1930 01:26:39,846 --> 01:26:41,544 several hours out of the day. 1931 01:26:41,674 --> 01:26:42,849 It's not the movie I set out to make, 1932 01:26:42,980 --> 01:26:45,025 but it's the movie we have. 1933 01:26:45,156 --> 01:26:47,767 What would you say you are the most proud of? 1934 01:26:50,030 --> 01:26:52,119 I'm proud that I followed through. 1935 01:26:54,209 --> 01:26:56,820 This was really hard. All of it. 1936 01:26:56,950 --> 01:27:00,084 Boy from Kansas with few connections 1937 01:27:00,215 --> 01:27:02,086 gets the chance to tell a story, 1938 01:27:02,217 --> 01:27:05,872 connect with the guy that made him want to become a filmmaker, 1939 01:27:06,003 --> 01:27:11,226 and in the process of trying to tell this very specific story, 1940 01:27:11,356 --> 01:27:12,662 all of his dreams come true. 1941 01:27:12,792 --> 01:27:15,752 [INDISTINCT CONVERSATION] 1942 01:27:15,882 --> 01:27:17,971 I mean, I've gotten everything I think I've wanted out of this. 1943 01:27:18,102 --> 01:27:19,103 - Yeah. - RODGERS: Have I thoroughly-- 1944 01:27:19,234 --> 01:27:21,018 I think you got some new shit. 1945 01:27:21,148 --> 01:27:23,368 RODGERS: Have I thoroughly asked you enough questions 1946 01:27:23,499 --> 01:27:25,327 that are not your typical "Chasing Amy" fanfare? 1947 01:27:25,457 --> 01:27:26,502 Yeah. Yeah. 1948 01:27:26,632 --> 01:27:27,590 RODGERS: Is that-- Is that a good thing? 1949 01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:28,504 JOEY: It's a great thing. 1950 01:27:28,634 --> 01:27:29,418 Like, I think that, like, 1951 01:27:29,548 --> 01:27:31,071 I just didn't have another bullshit 1952 01:27:31,202 --> 01:27:33,030 - "Chasing Amy" interview in me. - RODGERS: Thank God. 1953 01:27:33,160 --> 01:27:35,554 - You know? - Yeah. 1954 01:27:35,685 --> 01:27:40,646 RODGERS: And he gets to leave this part of his life where it is. 1955 01:27:40,777 --> 01:27:43,040 I just feel lucky. 1956 01:27:43,170 --> 01:27:45,564 I feel lucky to have you. 1957 01:27:45,695 --> 01:27:49,612 I mean, I don't know where I'd be without you. 1958 01:27:52,397 --> 01:27:54,094 This one time, you said, you know, 1959 01:27:54,225 --> 01:27:56,140 "You're making a love letter to Kevin Smith," or whatever, 1960 01:27:56,271 --> 01:27:59,274 but like, you're the only person 1961 01:27:59,404 --> 01:28:01,928 I want to write a love letter to. 1962 01:28:02,059 --> 01:28:05,628 If this movie doesn't say it, let me just say it explicitly. 1963 01:28:05,758 --> 01:28:08,935 Like, you are everything to me. 1964 01:28:09,066 --> 01:28:13,897 I don't need "Chasing Amy" anymore 1965 01:28:14,027 --> 01:28:16,247 because I have something real to attach myself to, 1966 01:28:16,378 --> 01:28:17,379 and that's you. 1967 01:28:17,509 --> 01:28:18,597 I... 1968 01:28:22,384 --> 01:28:23,863 will forever be better off... 1969 01:28:26,475 --> 01:28:29,478 because of what you've been to me. 1970 01:28:29,608 --> 01:28:31,436 And I don't mean to paraphrase Holden there, so. 1971 01:28:31,567 --> 01:28:32,611 [CHUCKLES] 1972 01:28:32,742 --> 01:28:33,917 Thank you. 1973 01:28:34,657 --> 01:28:36,093 Thank you. 1974 01:28:37,486 --> 01:28:38,922 After you. 1975 01:28:41,881 --> 01:28:43,840 [RODGERS CHUCKLES] 1976 01:29:13,957 --> 01:29:15,611 ♪ Asleep in electric beds 1977 01:29:17,700 --> 01:29:19,919 ♪ Counting all our sheep 1978 01:29:21,268 --> 01:29:23,488 ♪ But the sky up above our heads ♪ 1979 01:29:25,011 --> 01:29:27,318 ♪ It opened up 1980 01:29:29,451 --> 01:29:31,714 ♪ A note from a stranger read 1981 01:29:34,281 --> 01:29:36,719 ♪ You had to give into the things ♪ 1982 01:29:38,198 --> 01:29:40,331 ♪ That stand before you 1983 01:29:45,510 --> 01:29:48,470 ♪ And still the distance from your house ♪ 1984 01:29:50,820 --> 01:29:53,170 ♪ To my front door 1985 01:29:53,300 --> 01:29:57,479 ♪ It's exactly the same 1986 01:29:57,609 --> 01:30:06,444 [♪] 1987 01:30:16,323 --> 01:30:18,848 ♪ You said it's terminal 1988 01:30:20,937 --> 01:30:24,201 ♪ The way I clean my sheets 1989 01:30:24,331 --> 01:30:27,770 ♪ Such a poetic phrasing 1990 01:30:27,900 --> 01:30:31,164 ♪ Don't you know it's wasted here ♪ 1991 01:30:31,295 --> 01:30:40,173 [♪] 1992 01:30:46,310 --> 01:30:55,188 [♪] 1993 01:31:03,936 --> 01:31:07,462 ♪ Ba-ba-ba ba-ba ba-ba-ba 1994 01:31:07,592 --> 01:31:11,335 ♪ Ba-ba-ba ba-ba ba-ba-ba 1995 01:31:11,466 --> 01:31:15,034 ♪ Ba-ba-ba ba-ba ba-ba-ba 1996 01:31:15,165 --> 01:31:17,036 ♪ Ba ba-da-da 1997 01:31:17,167 --> 01:31:21,127 ♪ Ba ba da 1998 01:31:21,258 --> 01:31:25,044 ♪ And on the 4th of July 1999 01:31:25,175 --> 01:31:28,874 ♪ We both looked to the sky 2000 01:31:29,005 --> 01:31:33,226 ♪ And watched the stars exploding ♪ 2001 01:31:33,357 --> 01:31:37,796 ♪ All around our heads 2002 01:31:37,927 --> 01:31:41,713 ♪ And on the 4th of July 2003 01:31:41,844 --> 01:31:45,543 ♪ We both looked to the sky 2004 01:31:45,674 --> 01:31:49,591 ♪ And watched the stars exploding ♪ 2005 01:31:49,721 --> 01:31:55,422 ♪ All around our heads 2006 01:31:55,553 --> 01:32:00,166 ♪ And still the distance from your house ♪ 2007 01:32:00,297 --> 01:32:02,995 ♪ To my front door 2008 01:32:03,126 --> 01:32:05,824 ♪ Well, don't you know it's 2009 01:32:05,955 --> 01:32:09,611 ♪ It's exactly the same