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(wind rustling)

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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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(soft piano fades in)

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I came to New York to attend NYU to study music business.

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Yeah, I was 16 years old, um I- I turned 17 shortly thereafter,

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but when I arrived in August of 2001, I was 16 years old.

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Of course, 9/11 happened just- I believe my second week of classes?

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So that colors the memories, um, of that time,

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but it was- it was overwhelming in general.

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I mean- I was on my own. Um, I-

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I went to go see Michael Jackson on September 10th,

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and I was starting classes.

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I was responsible for getting myself to classes every single day. (laughs) You know?

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It- it was definitely overwhelming, you know?

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I came to New York University to study music business, and part of the reason

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that I was so interested in music business was because, um,

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I'd been such a big fan of Michael Jackson,

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not only of his music and his dance and all that,

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which is incredible, but also of his business acumen

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so I came to NYU knowing so much about publishing,

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and royalty rates, and things like that because I had studied all of his business deals.

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You know- our first week of classes,

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we had this program, um, meeting that we would do

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which, um, they were weekly assemblies

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where everybody in our major would get together and

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discuss things that were happening in the industry,

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um, we would have speakers come in from, you know,

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various record labels or NARAS, which, you know,

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works with the Grammys and- and different songwriters, things like that.

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It was a time to come together and

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really assess the landscape of the music business and

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the very first program meeting,

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I was introducing myself to the group, as a whole.

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and I don't remember if I was running for some sort of like-

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representative position or if I just wanted to

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introduce myself for whatever reason? (laughs)

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But, I was wearing a Jackson's Victory Tour T-Shirt, and it was vintage.

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I had just bought it in the village, and a young man came up to me

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and told me that he liked my shirt and, ah…

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That young man turned out to be Jordan Chandler.

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(melancholic orchestra music)

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(orchestra strings get louder)

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(strings soften and fade out)

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I have on the phone with me investigative journalist, Charles Thomson,

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who is the winner of 6 national awards for his recent, um,

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investigative work exposing the Shoebury pedophile ring.

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So Charles, you've sat in on a lot of pedophile cases.

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What would you say are the main differences

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between the cases that you've sat in on and the Michael Jackson case?

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CHARLES: Of course, the first difference

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is that the cases that I've covered were all criminal cases

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where there was was no real financial incentive to make an allegation,

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so the motive of seeking millions of dollars is removed.

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And then in the cases where we see convictions that I’ve been sitting in,

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you had victims who were credible, who were consistent,

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and that's never been the case in the allegations against Michael Jackson.

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They've never been consistent.

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They've always turned out to be perjurers

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and people who were just looking for a payout.

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REPORTER: Michael Jackson was one of the most famous people on the planet.

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It turns out he was also the target of intensive FBI scrutiny.

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DANNY: I have also read that you have

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extensively studied the Michael Jackson FBI files.

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What were the findings of the FBI files and

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were child porn was ever discovered at Neverland?

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CHARLES: No child porn was ever found at Neverland.

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And in fact, there was a story that said

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child porn had been found around the time of the trial

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So the judge and the prosecutor both released

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a stipulation publicly which was that:

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No child pornography was ever found at Neverland

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or at any of Michael Jackson's properties.

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So that's not just something that the fans say.

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That's the judge in the trial and even the prosecutor

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said that there was no child porn.

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In terms of what the FBI files tell us, ah, what they tell us

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is that for over a decade, the FBI was intermittently

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involved in investigating Michael Jackson.

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There's no evidence of sustained surveillance or

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sustained investigation, only of the authorities

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occasionally calling the FBI to assist them

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with their own investigations, but nonetheless,

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the files tell us that more than 20 different FBI departments

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investigated Michael Jackson at one time or another,

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and none of them found any evidence of any wrongdoing.

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Perhaps the most compelling piece of information

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that came out of those files was that

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when the prosecutors in the 2003 - '05 Arvizo case

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sent away all of the computers that they seized at Neverland

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to the FBI for analysis, the FBI was unable to find

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anything incriminating on a single one of them.

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So the FBI files don't exonerate Michael Jackson,

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but they certainly don't incriminate him.

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DANNY: In 2005, there was a study done by ABC

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with the top psychiatrists in the country and they all concluded that

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Michael Jackson’s behavior would be very rare amongst pedophiles.

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And there are other psychologists and psychiatrists who echo that belief.

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(speaking German)

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DANNY: Someone who is always trying to dispute that notion

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is a man named Jim Clemente.

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Jim Clemente, to this day, believes that Michael Jackson

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does fit the profile of a pedophile and that Michael Jackson

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did have child porn at Neverland.

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CLEMENTE: They found, um, images

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and I think they were of a photoshoot with

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Michael Jackson's nephew,

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Taj.

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I think he was still a teenager.

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And there's a picture that's on the internet that I

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Um, It's a picture of Michael. You see that?

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FEMALE VOICE: WHAT?! OH MY…. Yes, yes.

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- So there are pictures in this series where’s he actually- he’s actually

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GRABBING their cloth and trying to RIP it off him,

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laughing, and joking, and trying to get him naked.

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And he's I mean, he's virtually naked in this picture

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- This is his NEPHEW... this FORTY something year old man
- Yeah..

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And why is he posing in a picture where Michael's

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shirt is open, exposing his chest and

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this kid's chest- I mean-

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- He's basically naked!
- upper body is basically naked, he’s got no underwear on,

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right next to Michael Jackson.

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I mean, it's disgusting.

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My name is Taj Jackson. I'm the nephew of Michael Jackson.

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CROWD CHANTING: "3T! 3T! 3T! 3T! 3T"

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(3T- Anything) I wait for the day when I can say that girl's mine

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Cuz I would do anything for you, yes I would.

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I'll give you love (I'll give you love)...

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TAJ: You know, and I know it's not gonna be put to rest,

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but I hope that it's really put to rest

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because these pictures have been circulating.

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These pictures are annoying that they're circulating.

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You know, we sued one of the tabloids because they

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said that they were child pornography and we had them retract that,

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because that's not what they were. They were for an album.

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They were for a single cover, "Why".

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(Michael Jackson - Stranger in Moscow) I was wandering in the rain...

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TAJ: My uncle was doing the music video for

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"Stranger in Moscow" at the time and we came down to visit him.

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but also, we were “Let's take this opportunity since we're all here,

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Let's do the 'Why' photoshoot as well."

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There was wardrobe. There was a camera director. There was makeup.

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We wanted to do something edgy for our "Why" photoshoot.

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We wanted the guys and the girls and we and we thought we were "too cute" [laughs]

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You know a 3T like too "saccharine" and we wanted to have some “edge”

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some- you know? Something to us.

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(3T - Why) It's not like I can't escape what's in my soul.
TAJ: It's frustrating because this is what they do all the time in this way.

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Luckily I was involved in it, you know? This was my younger brother, TJ.

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If he was here, he'd be even probably more upset than I am right now.

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Like it's implied that TJ was clueless or TJ didn't know what was going on.

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TJ was very aware of what was going on. TJ wanted him to go farther!

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I was uncomfortable taking off my shirt, and so I did have to take off my shirt.

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It was never like he said, "No, you take off your shirt and you do this and that."

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It was whatever we wanted to do because we wanted to be edgy.

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And it worked because people are talking about it!

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Now, unfortunately, they're trying to dirty it, but it was edgy.

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He mentioned that you know, Michael's laughing in that- because we were joking!

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We, you know, for us, we wanted to do something edgy!

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But we always laughed when we were around my uncle

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and he laughed when he was around us, and so

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that should tell you something: that there was no tension. You're not seeing our faces like

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"We don't want to do this" or whatever because we were pushing him to do this.

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It really- it makes me feel angry to be honest, um, just because

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That photo shoot was a great memory for me

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and to hear someone try and dirty it up in that way?

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The way they're trying to twist it as if my uncle came and said,

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"Hey, I'm just gonna start ripping off clothes." That's farthest from the truth.

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There was plenty of people there, you know,

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that witnessed everything that would back up

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you know- my story or my uncle's story if he was alive.

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But at the same time this guy who

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basically is just guessing what happened

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at the photo shoot by pictures.

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What gets me upset is just people-

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outside people judging my uncle without knowing the scenario.

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One thing I do want to say is you know,

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people like that that just, you know, on the outside,

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And he's supposed to be a professional?

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And you hear him. He sounds giddy, you know?

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He sounds like someone that is just spiteful and hateful

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and it's those kind of people like-

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they need something in their life. They really do, you know?

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Leave our family alone.

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(daunting music)

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AKON: You never done things that was missing in your life?

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You just go back to do it, and Mike just like to just have great fun

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and the stuff he liked to do, adults don't like doing that.

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SCANLAN: I think he had more fun hanging out with just everyday people

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that he didn't even know who they were, you know?

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Either they were local people or touristsor whatever

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and he didn't even know who they were, you know?

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He'd just meet ‘em and talk to ‘em,

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get to know a little bit: “Hey you wanna come out to the ranch?"

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(whimsical music)

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DANNY: You were invited to Michael Jackson's Neverland before.

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- I mean, it was amazing. I've been there, probably 8 times.

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- 8 times?

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- Yeah! I spent the night. The first time I ever went was actually the time I spent the night.

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He walked us through his entire house, um,

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his bedroom, his memorabilia room, bathrooms, every-

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every place in his house.

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We were like, telling him how beautiful it was,

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and he was like, "You've never been here before?!"

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and my friends and I looked at each other like,

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"Nope, we sure haven't, like-

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when would we have been here?"

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You know? So he would invite- if there were fans sitting outside,

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he would, like, see us and tell Violet, who was security,

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to let us in and he would let us do whatever.

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- So that speaks volume to just

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how easily he trusts people to like- come into his life, even.

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- Yeah, I mean

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unfortunately, he trusted a lot of people he shouldn't have trusted in his life.

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- they go, "oh you slept in the same bedroom as him".

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It's like I don't think you understand. Michael Jackson's bedroom is 2 stories,

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(laughs) and it has like- like 3 bathrooms and this and that,

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so when I slept in his bedroom, yeah

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but you have to understand the whole scenario,

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and the thing is with Michael

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is that he's not very good at explaining himself,

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and he never really has been.

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- Michael Jackson, his bedroom was 2 stories

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so when you first walked in, I didn't realize at first it was his bedroom

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because his bed wasn't there on the bottom floor.

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but it was just, it was kind of- very cluttered with a lot of things.

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I like- actually sat on his bed and he was just kind of

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just talking about Neverland to us, and

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that was surreal. (laughs)

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(gentle music)

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Michael was going to Miami, so myself and a couple of friends

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flew in from Europe to spend some time with him.

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And before he had to go,

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he told us that we could stay and that we can enjoy Neverland as much as we wanted.

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While the ranch manager took us to the main house,

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he told me that Michael had said to give us the Royal Treatment,

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And we sure got the Royal Treatment.

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When we went up to the main house,

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all the staff were lined up on the stairs welcoming us,

239
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and they told us that there-

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we could move around as freely as we wanted to.

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There were no places that were off-limits.

242
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- And this was 16 years ago,

243
00:16:11,100 --> 00:16:13,066
so it's been a while, but I just remember like-

244
00:16:13,066 --> 00:16:14,666
being completely in shock the whole time.

245
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Most people are just-

246
00:16:16,616 --> 00:16:20,783
I can't believe that he let us in his house like that.

247
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(somber music)

248
00:16:28,416 --> 00:16:29,350
JOSEPHINE: Several weeks later,

249
00:16:29,350 --> 00:16:31,950
after we'd already come back to classes after 9/11,

250
00:16:31,983 --> 00:16:34,899
I was working as a work-study in the music department.

251
00:16:34,899 --> 00:16:38,049
So, he came in to register for private guitar lessons.

252
00:16:38,049 --> 00:16:41,100
He always carried his guitar with him everywhere he went

253
00:16:41,100 --> 00:16:43,733
and um, we had a nice conversation.

254
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He remembered me from our program meeting.

255
00:16:46,333 --> 00:16:49,049
We had a little chat, exchanged pleasantries,

256
00:16:49,049 --> 00:16:50,299
and he gave me his form,

257
00:16:50,299 --> 00:16:53,733
and as I went to register him for these private lessons,

258
00:16:53,733 --> 00:16:57,016
I saw his name for the first time, which was Jordan Chandler.

259
00:16:57,016 --> 00:16:59,649
and I believe he told me his first name,

260
00:16:59,649 --> 00:17:01,783
but I didn't know his last name at that point.

261
00:17:01,783 --> 00:17:05,500
And when I saw Jordan Chandler on a piece of paper, I just-

262
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I couldn't quite place it then either.

263
00:17:08,450 --> 00:17:11,183
Um, it just sounded very very familiar,

264
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and keep in mind, at the time , um,

265
00:17:13,250 --> 00:17:15,583
Jordan Chandler's name wasn't widely known

266
00:17:15,583 --> 00:17:20,216
because in the U.S., you know, alleged crimes of sex abuse,

267
00:17:20,216 --> 00:17:22,650
particularly when they're minors, are very protected.

268
00:17:22,650 --> 00:17:26,783
but I went online, and I 'Asked Jeeves'- dating myself-
(keyboard typing sound and mouse click)

269
00:17:26,783 --> 00:17:32,983
and um, I suddenly realized that he was in fact the first accuser from 1993.

270
00:17:33,849 --> 00:17:39,416
(somber string instrument fade out)

271
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DANNY: So Evan Chandler and June Chandler, originally June Wong,

272
00:17:43,216 --> 00:17:48,099
had a child named Jordan Chandler who turns out to be the first alleged victim.

273
00:17:48,099 --> 00:17:52,299
June Chandler divorced Evan Chandler and married a man named David Schwartz.

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Charles, can you tell me about Evan Chandler?

275
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CHARLES: So Evan Chandler was born in New York.

276
00:17:57,933 --> 00:18:02,933
He was actually born Evan Charmatz, but he wanted a career as a screenwriter,

277
00:18:02,933 --> 00:18:06,933
so he moved to California and changed his name from Charmatz to Chandler

278
00:18:06,933 --> 00:18:10,450
because he thought that Charmatz was too Jewish-sounding.

279
00:18:10,450 --> 00:18:15,333
He became a dentist, but he didn't really enjoy it and also was not really very good at it.

280
00:18:15,333 --> 00:18:18,700
He was censured by the regulatory board for shoddy work.

281
00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:21,900
He was also accused at one point of sexually assaulting

282
00:18:21,900 --> 00:18:24,700
a female patient while he was working on her.

283
00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:27,700
He had a very kind of a brief career as a screenwriter.

284
00:18:27,700 --> 00:18:32,549
He got a screenwriting credit around 1993 on the film, 'Robin Hood: Men in Tights'.

285
00:18:32,549 --> 00:18:35,200
("Men in Tights" plays)

286
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:41,933
We're men, we're men in tights. We roam around the forest looking for fights.

287
00:18:42,299 --> 00:18:45,099
REPORTER: Apparently, he was working on Mel Brooks

288
00:18:45,099 --> 00:18:47,016
when he came up with the 'Men in Tights' idea-

289
00:18:47,016 --> 00:18:49,299
or he said his son came up with the 'Men in Tights' idea-

290
00:18:49,299 --> 00:18:52,500
this is the same 13-year-old boy, and apparently,

291
00:18:52,500 --> 00:18:56,049
maybe Mel was under some kind of ether or anesthetic

292
00:18:56,049 --> 00:18:57,700
but he decided it was a great idea

293
00:18:57,700 --> 00:19:00,616
and went along with the dentist and they put the movie together.

294
00:19:00,616 --> 00:19:03,700
I would imagine a dentist to the stars would be exposed

295
00:19:03,700 --> 00:19:05,416
to a lot of the glamour in Hollywood.

296
00:19:05,416 --> 00:19:09,650
He can see his successful customers talking on the phone making deals

297
00:19:09,650 --> 00:19:12,933
and it looks so easy to someone on the outside, you know?

298
00:19:12,933 --> 00:19:16,183
And he figured he wanted to get a little piece of the pie and get you know?

299
00:19:16,183 --> 00:19:20,299
Stop drilling teeth and maybe become a producer and really make some big bucks.

300
00:19:20,299 --> 00:19:24,216
(ominous music)

301
00:19:24,216 --> 00:19:26,133
CHARLES: So Michael Jackson is in Los Angeles

302
00:19:26,133 --> 00:19:28,183
with some of his team and they're driving along

303
00:19:28,183 --> 00:19:32,383
Wilshire Boulevard in Beverly Hills and the car breaks down.

304
00:19:32,383 --> 00:19:36,533
There's a lady in the area who sees Michael Jackson stranded by the side of the road

305
00:19:36,533 --> 00:19:38,783
and calls her husband who works at a business

306
00:19:38,783 --> 00:19:43,133
called Rent-A-Wreck, which is a car rental business.

307
00:19:43,133 --> 00:19:45,616
Rent-A-Wreck is owned by Dave Schwartz.

308
00:19:45,616 --> 00:19:47,983
So Dave Schwartz calls his wife June

309
00:19:47,983 --> 00:19:53,299
because he knows that Jordan Chandler, her son, is a massive Michael Jackson fan.

310
00:19:53,299 --> 00:19:56,583
There was one employee at Rent-A-Wreck who said that when June arrived,

311
00:19:56,583 --> 00:20:00,216
she was kind of forcing Jordie on Michael Jackson,

312
00:20:00,216 --> 00:20:03,016
almost like trying to emotionally blackmail him.

313
00:20:03,016 --> 00:20:06,700
So that's how the numbers got exchanged and they ended up staying in touch.

314
00:20:07,016 --> 00:20:09,500
DANNY: So, a friendship develops between

315
00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:13,266
Michael Jackson and the Chandler family, excluding Evan Chandler.

316
00:20:13,266 --> 00:20:17,066
During this period, Michael Jackson would have stay-overs at their house.

317
00:20:17,066 --> 00:20:20,183
They would come over and sleepover at Michael Jackson’s house.

318
00:20:20,183 --> 00:20:22,816
Where is Evan Chandler during this period of time?

319
00:20:22,816 --> 00:20:25,866
CHARLES: Evan Chandler was pretty much an absent father.

320
00:20:25,866 --> 00:20:30,266
He owed almost $70,000 in unpaid child support.

321
00:20:30,266 --> 00:20:34,616
He had been rowing with June about how infrequently he was seeing his son.

322
00:20:34,616 --> 00:20:39,133
She was trying to get Evan to take Jordan more often and he was refusing.

323
00:20:39,133 --> 00:20:41,900
He had his own new family, like June did.

324
00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:44,466
He'd remarried and had kids with another lady, and

325
00:20:44,466 --> 00:20:48,133
they were struggling to get Evan to engage with Jordie.

326
00:20:48,133 --> 00:20:50,466
It was not until he discovered that his son was now

327
00:20:50,466 --> 00:20:53,099
friends with Michael Jackson that he suddenly became

328
00:20:53,099 --> 00:20:54,666
interested in seeing him again.

329
00:20:55,333 --> 00:21:04,416
FREEMAN: My recollection was that he was not very interested in Jordie,

330
00:21:04,416 --> 00:21:08,066
prior to the time that Jordie took up with Michael

331
00:21:08,066 --> 00:21:10,983
and as soon as Jordie took up with Michael,

332
00:21:10,983 --> 00:21:14,500
Evan became the most interested parent in the world.

333
00:21:14,783 --> 00:21:17,216
CHARLES: They seemed to be getting on quite well

334
00:21:17,216 --> 00:21:21,099
Evan even at one point asked him to build an extra wing onto the house

335
00:21:21,099 --> 00:21:23,616
so he could come and stay more often

336
00:21:23,616 --> 00:21:25,266
And then when that idea didn't work,

337
00:21:25,266 --> 00:21:27,700
he said, "Well, I've got a better idea.

338
00:21:27,700 --> 00:21:29,816
Why don't you just build me a new house?"

339
00:21:29,816 --> 00:21:31,666
and then that didn't happen either,

340
00:21:31,666 --> 00:21:33,816
June dropped the bombshell that she and Jordie were

341
00:21:33,816 --> 00:21:36,383
thinking of going on tour with Michael,

342
00:21:36,383 --> 00:21:38,866
and then Evan, who previously had been an absent father

343
00:21:38,866 --> 00:21:43,416
and wasn't paying his child support, and wasn't really interested in seeing his son at all,

344
00:21:43,416 --> 00:21:46,216
all of a sudden became enraged about the idea that Jordan

345
00:21:46,216 --> 00:21:48,299
would be out of the country for a few months

346
00:21:48,299 --> 00:21:50,733
and that was when the relationship really took a

347
00:21:50,733 --> 00:21:53,333
dramatic turn towards the negative.

348
00:21:53,333 --> 00:21:57,099
What happened was Evan had begun making strange comments and

349
00:21:57,099 --> 00:21:59,933
threats to June and Dave and Jordan about Michael

350
00:21:59,933 --> 00:22:02,299
that he was going to make allegations.

351
00:22:02,299 --> 00:22:04,666
He was behaving so erratically,

352
00:22:04,666 --> 00:22:07,583
that they feared he was going to do something crazy

353
00:22:07,583 --> 00:22:09,933
So the next time they spoke to him on the phone,

354
00:22:09,933 --> 00:22:11,583
they tape recorded him.

355
00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:17,266
EVAN: This man is going to be humiliated beyond belief.

356
00:22:17,266 --> 00:22:20,116
He will not believe what is going to happen to him,

357
00:22:20,116 --> 00:22:23,549
beyond- beyond his worst nightmares.

358
00:22:23,549 --> 00:22:25,383
He will not sell one more record.

359
00:22:25,383 --> 00:22:28,866
If I go through with this, I win big time. I will get everything I want.

360
00:22:28,866 --> 00:22:30,716
They will be destroyed forever.

361
00:22:30,716 --> 00:22:33,116
EVAN: That's a fact, Dave. Michael's career will be over.
DAVE: and does that help Jordie?

362
00:22:33,116 --> 00:22:35,116
EVAN: Michael's career will be over.
DAVE: and does that help Jordie?

363
00:22:35,116 --> 00:22:37,516
DAVE: and does that help Jordie?
EVAN: That's irrelevant to me.

364
00:22:37,733 --> 00:22:41,483
CHARLES: He's talking about how he's furious that Michael has stop phoning him

365
00:22:41,483 --> 00:22:43,366
and stopped taking his calls,

366
00:22:43,366 --> 00:22:47,733
and how Michael has stolen his ex-wife and torn the family apart

367
00:22:47,733 --> 00:22:50,849
and how he's plotting his revenge, and he says that,

368
00:22:50,849 --> 00:22:55,766
"Everything is moving in accordance with a plan that's not just mine."

369
00:22:55,766 --> 00:23:00,083
and this phone call occurred BEFORE Jordan Chandler made any allegations

370
00:23:00,083 --> 00:23:02,766
against Michael Jackson, and in this phone call,

371
00:23:02,766 --> 00:23:05,599
Evan Chandler alludes to a "nasty attorney".

372
00:23:05,983 --> 00:23:08,983
EVAN: This attorney I found, and I interviewed SEVERAL-

373
00:23:08,983 --> 00:23:12,183
and I picked the nastiest son of a bitch I could find.

374
00:23:12,183 --> 00:23:13,583
Once I make that phone call,

375
00:23:13,583 --> 00:23:16,033
this guy's just going to destroy everybody in sight

376
00:23:16,033 --> 00:23:19,866
in any devious, nasty, cruel way that he can do it.

377
00:23:19,866 --> 00:23:23,333
And I've given him full authority to do that.

378
00:23:23,333 --> 00:23:27,016
(chuckles) It will be a- a massacre if I don't get what I want.

379
00:23:28,733 --> 00:23:31,833
CHARLES: and that attorney turns out to be Barry Rothman.

380
00:23:31,966 --> 00:23:34,799
(somber piano music)

381
00:23:35,116 --> 00:23:37,083
My name is Geraldine Hughes.

382
00:23:37,083 --> 00:23:42,316
I was the legal secretary in 1993 for Barry Rothman,

383
00:23:42,316 --> 00:23:47,000
who was the attorney of Evan Chandler, the first accuser

384
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:51,049
that came against Michael on child molestation.

385
00:23:51,049 --> 00:23:53,166
I was working for him, he hired me.

386
00:23:53,166 --> 00:23:55,450
When I came in for an interview one day,

387
00:23:55,450 --> 00:23:58,849
and he hired me for the job as his legal secretary.

388
00:23:58,849 --> 00:24:01,166
I was the only legal secretary for him.

389
00:24:01,166 --> 00:24:03,500
He was really an entertainment attorney

390
00:24:03,500 --> 00:24:07,166
and he had a history of being a good negotiator

391
00:24:07,166 --> 00:24:09,133
in the entertainment field, though.

392
00:24:09,133 --> 00:24:12,900
Whenever Evan would call Barry Rothman's office,

393
00:24:12,900 --> 00:24:16,450
Barry Rothman would tell us to put the call on hold

394
00:24:16,450 --> 00:24:18,166
and he'd walk all the way back to his office,

395
00:24:18,166 --> 00:24:21,500
shut the door, and that's how he took all of Evan's calls.

396
00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:23,500
He was the only client he did that for.

397
00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:26,966
Anybody else call, if he was at-away from his office,

398
00:24:26,966 --> 00:24:29,566
He'd just pick up the phone and say, "Okay.. woo woo woo"

399
00:24:29,566 --> 00:24:32,299
You know, say what he had to say and then he'd hang up.

400
00:24:32,299 --> 00:24:33,533
But he didn't do that with Evan.

401
00:24:33,533 --> 00:24:35,733
Evan was always behind closed doors.

402
00:24:36,216 --> 00:24:38,533
CHARLES: Evan had already retained a lawyer.

403
00:24:38,533 --> 00:24:42,166
Jordan Chandler was insisting that Michael had never touched him.

404
00:24:42,166 --> 00:24:45,283
Anthony Pellicano, who is Michael's private investigator,

405
00:24:45,283 --> 00:24:48,016
goes around to interview Jordan Chandler and questions him

406
00:24:48,016 --> 00:24:52,083
for about an hour, I believe, and asks him all sorts of questions,

407
00:24:52,083 --> 00:24:54,283
and very direct questions:

408
00:24:54,283 --> 00:24:56,933
"Have you ever seen Michael Jackson naked?",

409
00:24:56,933 --> 00:24:59,283
"Have you ever been naked in a bed with Michael Jackson?"

410
00:24:59,283 --> 00:25:02,966
"Has he ever touched you?", et cetera, et cetera

411
00:25:02,966 --> 00:25:05,533
and Jordan Chandler says "No" to everything.

412
00:25:05,533 --> 00:25:08,333
At the end of the conversation, Jordan Chandler reiterates that

413
00:25:08,333 --> 00:25:10,683
Michael has never done anything wrong to him,

414
00:25:10,683 --> 00:25:13,333
and says that his dad is just trying to get money.

415
00:25:14,450 --> 00:25:17,366
(somber piano music fades out)

416
00:25:17,366 --> 00:25:20,333
(up tempo strings fade in)

417
00:25:20,483 --> 00:25:22,116
GERALDINE: It started out a custody issue.

418
00:25:22,116 --> 00:25:25,349
Evan Chandler wanted the custody of Jordie

419
00:25:25,349 --> 00:25:30,083
because in order to coerce a child into saying something that's not true,

420
00:25:30,083 --> 00:25:31,883
you need time with that child.

421
00:25:32,116 --> 00:25:34,633
CHARLES: Evan Chandler goes to custody court and says,

422
00:25:34,633 --> 00:25:37,200
"I want to have a week of custody with my son,"

423
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,516
and June Chandler agrees on the basis

424
00:25:39,516 --> 00:25:41,916
that he'll be returned after 7 days.

425
00:25:42,250 --> 00:25:45,099
- And he never gave him back. He kept him.

426
00:25:45,099 --> 00:25:48,733
He never brought him back, and during that time that he had him,

427
00:25:48,733 --> 00:25:53,183
he came into my office and he was behind closed doors with my attorney

428
00:25:53,183 --> 00:25:55,416
the- the- Jordie Chandler was.

429
00:25:55,416 --> 00:25:58,016
I actually opened up the door one day. I was leaving,

430
00:25:58,016 --> 00:26:00,900
and I opened up the door and Jordie was in the back!

431
00:26:00,900 --> 00:26:03,500
And he kind of looked a little startled when-

432
00:26:03,500 --> 00:26:05,416
Because I looked and I saw him and I was like:

433
00:26:05,416 --> 00:26:08,616
Nobody in the office knew that he was even there.

434
00:26:08,616 --> 00:26:11,183
You know, we're like, "How did he even get here?"

435
00:26:11,183 --> 00:26:14,383
and I opened up the door, so I had a few encounters

436
00:26:14,383 --> 00:26:16,783
with Jordie Chandler coming into the office,

437
00:26:16,783 --> 00:26:19,583
and to me, it just looked like a coaching session.

438
00:26:20,416 --> 00:26:22,333
CHARLES: While Jordan was in Evan's custody,

439
00:26:22,333 --> 00:26:26,099
Evan sedated him with a drug called sodium amytal.

440
00:26:26,099 --> 00:26:29,650
He did this supposedly so that he could perform a dental procedure,

441
00:26:29,650 --> 00:26:32,099
But it's a very dubious story that he's telling

442
00:26:32,099 --> 00:26:37,133
because there's no reason to use sodium amytal for a dental procedure.

443
00:26:37,133 --> 00:26:42,333
He gives him this drug, which has a reputation in the 1980s as a truth serum.

444
00:26:42,333 --> 00:26:46,333
The problem is that sodium amytal is not a truth serum.

445
00:26:46,333 --> 00:26:50,933
In just around 1993, the evidence was beginning to emerge that in fact

446
00:26:50,933 --> 00:26:53,733
sodium amytal was the opposite of a truth serum.

447
00:26:53,733 --> 00:26:56,816
It made people highly suggestible.

448
00:26:56,816 --> 00:27:01,650
So, by today, by 2000s, Psychology Today and other journals

449
00:27:01,650 --> 00:27:03,733
were saying that it was completely false

450
00:27:03,733 --> 00:27:06,583
that sodium amytal had a reputation as a truth serum.

451
00:27:07,533 --> 00:27:11,250
- So, I'm just gonna take a step back for everyone.

452
00:27:11,250 --> 00:27:14,816
Evan Chandler makes a phone call to David Schwartz

453
00:27:14,816 --> 00:27:18,816
talking about how he is going to make allegations against Michael Jackson.

454
00:27:18,816 --> 00:27:22,099
Jordan Chandler subsequently denies all allegations.

455
00:27:22,099 --> 00:27:25,983
Evan Chandler then gets custody of Jordan Chandler and never returns him.

456
00:27:25,983 --> 00:27:28,733
It was only supposed to be for a week,

457
00:27:28,733 --> 00:27:31,450
and during this period that Evan Chandler had Jordan Chandler,

458
00:27:31,450 --> 00:27:33,849
there were numerous unethical methods

459
00:27:33,849 --> 00:27:36,416
that we know of being used against Jordan,

460
00:27:36,416 --> 00:27:39,816
notably the use of sodium amytal and the one on one coaching

461
00:27:39,816 --> 00:27:42,816
between Jordan Chandler and Barry Rothman.

462
00:27:42,816 --> 00:27:46,133
So by the end of Jordan's stay, he changes his story.

463
00:27:46,133 --> 00:27:48,333
He went into Evan's custody saying that

464
00:27:48,333 --> 00:27:51,983
he wasn't abused by Michael Jackson to now claiming that,

465
00:27:51,983 --> 00:27:54,650
"Yes, in fact, I had been abused."

466
00:27:54,650 --> 00:27:59,816
So Charles with this new shocking statement by Jordan Chandler,

467
00:27:59,816 --> 00:28:02,500
what are Evan Chandler's next moves?

468
00:28:03,616 --> 00:28:05,650
CHARLES: So after Jordan changes his story,

469
00:28:05,650 --> 00:28:07,533
Evan, instead of going straight to the police-

470
00:28:07,533 --> 00:28:10,250
as you'd expect a parent to do if their child has just said that they've been

471
00:28:10,250 --> 00:28:12,816
that they'd been sexually abused by someone,

472
00:28:12,816 --> 00:28:15,500
goes directly to Michael Jackson and his legal team

473
00:28:15,500 --> 00:28:18,216
and starts demanding $20 million.

474
00:28:18,616 --> 00:28:21,650
- But Evan had a desire to be a filmmaker.

475
00:28:21,650 --> 00:28:24,299
He was trying to get the money so he can make a movie.

476
00:28:24,500 --> 00:28:27,049
CHARLES: So when Evan meets Michael to confront him

477
00:28:27,049 --> 00:28:29,416
and demand the money, there were witnesses in the room

478
00:28:29,416 --> 00:28:31,733
who said that he threw his arms around Michael

479
00:28:31,733 --> 00:28:34,216
and greeted him with a hug, like an old friend.

480
00:28:34,466 --> 00:28:39,900
FIELDS: I was seated in our big conference room next to Michael

481
00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:44,783
and the father came into the room and saw Michael

482
00:28:44,783 --> 00:28:48,349
and went quickly across the room and hugged him and

483
00:28:48,349 --> 00:28:51,583
said, "Michael, it's been so long since I've seen you."

484
00:28:51,583 --> 00:28:54,666
which was just... flabbergasting!

485
00:28:54,666 --> 00:28:57,700
because here's a- (chuckles) here's a father claiming

486
00:28:57,700 --> 00:29:00,983
that this man had abused his son sexually

487
00:29:00,983 --> 00:29:03,216
and rushes across the room to hug him?

488
00:29:03,216 --> 00:29:04,616
Impossible!

489
00:29:04,833 --> 00:29:08,000
CHARLES: Evan's lawyer gets in touch with Michael Jackson's camp and says,

490
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,216
“$20 million and nobody will ever hear about these allegations."

491
00:29:12,216 --> 00:29:17,533
But Michael Jackson is adamant that he is NOT going to give Evan Chandler $20 million.

492
00:29:17,533 --> 00:29:20,933
The counter offer which comes back from Michael Jackson's camp

493
00:29:20,933 --> 00:29:26,099
is a deal for 3 scripts and they say, "You'll be paid $350,000 per script."

494
00:29:26,816 --> 00:29:29,549
- He said, "I'll contribute that to your film project,

495
00:29:29,549 --> 00:29:32,466
just to give you and your son a chance to bond,

496
00:29:32,466 --> 00:29:35,433
to mend, because at that time, Evan was saying,

497
00:29:35,433 --> 00:29:37,500
"He's stolen my son's affection."

498
00:29:37,500 --> 00:29:39,799
He put that in the paperwork. He said,

499
00:29:39,799 --> 00:29:42,866
"My son is being starstruck by this superstar.

500
00:29:42,866 --> 00:29:45,266
He's stolen my friends affection".

501
00:29:45,266 --> 00:29:46,916
and so Michael just simply said,

502
00:29:46,916 --> 00:29:50,083
CHARLES: "This would be a great opportunity for you and Jordan to reconnect

503
00:29:50,083 --> 00:29:52,500
because you'll be able to write them together."

504
00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:56,000
Rothman comes back and says, "That's nowhere near what we're asking for.

505
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,500
That's less than $2 million, you know? We're not going for that."

506
00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:03,133
Michael's camp then makes another offer which is for a

507
00:30:03,133 --> 00:30:06,783
single script paid at $350,000-

508
00:30:06,783 --> 00:30:09,533
a third of what they'd initially offered.

509
00:30:09,533 --> 00:30:12,383
Barry Rothman is shocked by the low figure.

510
00:30:12,383 --> 00:30:15,183
In response to that, Evan panics and starts trying

511
00:30:15,183 --> 00:30:17,916
to go back to the million dollar deal, and

512
00:30:17,916 --> 00:30:20,016
Anthony Pellicano comes back and says,

513
00:30:20,016 --> 00:30:21,633
"That's never going to happen."

514
00:30:21,633 --> 00:30:26,833
PELLICANO: Let me ask you for the last time: he has rejected the deal, period?

515
00:30:26,833 --> 00:30:28,500
ROTHMAN: For one project? Yes.

516
00:30:28,500 --> 00:30:31,599
PELLICANO: OK, so then there is no deal.
ROTHMAN: Right!

517
00:30:31,599 --> 00:30:33,683
- Remember? I said take it or leave it-
- Bingo! Bingo!

518
00:30:33,683 --> 00:30:36,033
- OK. Then we don't have to have a discussion about this again.

519
00:30:36,033 --> 00:30:37,200
- OK
- Alright.

520
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:38,916
- That's where it's at.

521
00:30:38,916 --> 00:30:42,433
- I've already told you that we think this is an extortion attempt from the beginning.

522
00:30:42,433 --> 00:30:45,316
- Well you can say that!
- I've already made those statements time and time again.

523
00:30:45,316 --> 00:30:47,233
- You can say that, Anthony. I understand!

524
00:30:47,233 --> 00:30:51,116
but it fell apart because you offered 3 and then recanted on it.

525
00:30:51,883 --> 00:30:54,950
CHARLES: Meanwhile, the custody situation happens between Evan and June.

526
00:30:55,433 --> 00:30:59,683
GERALDINE: but what happened was June filed an ex parte motion

527
00:30:59,683 --> 00:31:04,233
An ex parte motion means: show up in court the next day.

528
00:31:04,233 --> 00:31:06,150
She was trying to get him back now,

529
00:31:06,150 --> 00:31:10,599
and so we typed a little declaration, and they went to court.

530
00:31:10,599 --> 00:31:13,316
The went to court on the ex parte, but see,

531
00:31:13,316 --> 00:31:17,716
he had been negotiating with Michael for a whole month

532
00:31:17,716 --> 00:31:20,883
for the $20 million to make the movie.

533
00:31:20,883 --> 00:31:26,349
He goes to court on a hearing for the custody, a family law judge,

534
00:31:26,349 --> 00:31:30,000
he said nothing to that judge about his "suspicion"

535
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,233
or "my child is- I think my child is...", you know being molested.

536
00:31:33,233 --> 00:31:38,283
He didn't say anything. So the judge ordered him to return Jordie back instantly.

537
00:31:38,799 --> 00:31:40,833
CHARLES: And in order to maintain custody,

538
00:31:40,833 --> 00:31:44,116
Evan has to go to the psychiatrist and have Jordie disclose.

539
00:31:44,599 --> 00:31:46,716
- I can promise you 3 days later

540
00:31:46,716 --> 00:31:49,033
is when we got the breaking news,

541
00:31:49,033 --> 00:31:50,549
so he never took him back.

542
00:31:50,549 --> 00:31:56,150
He took him to the doctor that he had already queried about molestation.

543
00:31:56,433 --> 00:31:57,950
CHARLES: He sort of acts out of haste

544
00:31:57,950 --> 00:31:59,950
and goes and triggers the criminal proceedings

545
00:31:59,950 --> 00:32:03,233
as a knee-jerk reaction to the custody situation

546
00:32:03,233 --> 00:32:07,599
and then that means he loses control of the situation and the negotiations cease

547
00:32:07,599 --> 00:32:09,599
because the police are now involved.

548
00:32:10,150 --> 00:32:27,666
(tense music)

549
00:32:29,266 --> 00:32:32,516
ANNOUNCER: This NBC Nightly News with Tom Brokaw.

550
00:32:33,549 --> 00:32:34,516
BROKAW: Good evening.

551
00:32:34,516 --> 00:32:36,633
Michael Jackson is in Bangkok Thailand tonight,

552
00:32:36,633 --> 00:32:38,750
where he has now postponed 2 concerts,

553
00:32:38,750 --> 00:32:42,033
claiming that he is ill. While back in Los Angeles,

554
00:32:42,033 --> 00:32:43,750
there's a press frenzy over

555
00:32:43,750 --> 00:32:45,599
investigations into child abuse by Jackson.

556
00:32:45,599 --> 00:32:48,549
- ..remains the Children's Services report detailing

557
00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:51,116
the charges by a thirteen-year-old boy.

558
00:32:51,116 --> 00:32:53,200
- CBS News has had access to..

559
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:54,400
CHARLES: The media went into a frenzy

560
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,633
because after the Michael Jackson case kicked in,

561
00:32:56,633 --> 00:32:59,599
basically their ratings went through the roof.

562
00:32:59,599 --> 00:33:02,066
It was astronomical the difference that this story made

563
00:33:02,066 --> 00:33:03,466
to the ratings of shows like

564
00:33:03,466 --> 00:33:05,033
"Hard Copy" and "A Current Affair".

565
00:33:05,599 --> 00:33:07,799
- I cannot think of a story that's bigger

566
00:33:07,799 --> 00:33:09,799
I mean, this is the story- if not of the decade, well

567
00:33:09,799 --> 00:33:13,716
certainly of the decade, but probably of the-

568
00:33:13,716 --> 00:33:15,516
One of the great stories of the century!

569
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:17,866
CHARLES: This was an era with no internet

570
00:33:17,866 --> 00:33:20,666
and no social media, and so there was a real thirst

571
00:33:20,666 --> 00:33:22,716
for knowledge about Michael Jackson because he was

572
00:33:22,716 --> 00:33:25,400
the biggest, most famous person in the world, but

573
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,433
people really knew basically nothing about him.

574
00:33:28,433 --> 00:33:31,266
There was a need to keep the story going every day

575
00:33:31,266 --> 00:33:33,349
They needed new Michael Jackson stories

576
00:33:33,349 --> 00:33:36,233
because that was where the ratings were coming from,

577
00:33:36,233 --> 00:33:39,116
so the impetus was there for journalists to seize on

578
00:33:39,116 --> 00:33:41,233
anything- anything that came up,

579
00:33:41,233 --> 00:33:44,599
anything that looked like a scoop or a scandal, or looked

580
00:33:44,599 --> 00:33:47,516
like it might bag them ratings, they just ran with it.

581
00:33:48,150 --> 00:33:49,233
REPORTER: We will fly stories.

582
00:33:49,233 --> 00:33:53,200
We will take a shred of fact and go with it, like a

583
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,200
great footballer with a ball. We will spin down the field

584
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,266
with that and try and score a goal with it, and

585
00:33:58,266 --> 00:34:01,266
maybe we will, maybe we won't, but we'll take a shred

586
00:34:01,266 --> 00:34:03,316
of evidence and try and try to turn it into a story.

587
00:34:03,799 --> 00:34:06,833
("In the Hall of the Mountain King" plays)

588
00:34:07,266 --> 00:34:09,716
MICHAEL: I will say that I am particularly upset

589
00:34:09,716 --> 00:34:12,666
by the handling of this mass matter

590
00:34:12,666 --> 00:34:15,516
by the incredible, terrible mass media

591
00:34:17,966 --> 00:34:19,133
At every opportunity,

592
00:34:19,133 --> 00:34:21,816
the media has dissected and manipulated

593
00:34:21,816 --> 00:34:26,616
these allegations to reach their own conclusions.

594
00:34:26,616 --> 00:34:29,766
I ask all of you to wait and hear the truth

595
00:34:29,766 --> 00:34:31,650
before you label or condemn me.

596
00:34:31,650 --> 00:34:34,416
Don't treat me like a criminal, as I am innocent.

597
00:34:36,133 --> 00:34:37,333
- When you buy a story,

598
00:34:37,333 --> 00:34:38,849
there's always the shadow of doubt that

599
00:34:38,849 --> 00:34:40,500
are they telling you the truth

600
00:34:40,500 --> 00:34:42,216
or are they telling you what you want to hear?

601
00:34:42,416 --> 00:34:43,766
CHARLES: They started waving around

602
00:34:43,766 --> 00:34:44,733
10,000

603
00:34:44,733 --> 00:34:46,050
20,000

604
00:34:46,050 --> 00:34:47,099
50,000

605
00:34:47,099 --> 00:34:50,900
$100,000 to anybody that was prepared to say,

606
00:34:50,900 --> 00:34:52,250
"I have met Michael Jackson

607
00:34:52,250 --> 00:34:54,500
and I've got something bad to say about him".

608
00:34:54,733 --> 00:34:57,133
- Yeah, a friend of mine told National Enquirer that

609
00:34:57,133 --> 00:34:59,650
he knew some family that knew the Jacksons

610
00:34:59,650 --> 00:35:02,216
and he called me on the phone, asked me to come to the hotel.

611
00:35:02,216 --> 00:35:04,300
I said, "I'm here to help Michael," and they said,

612
00:35:04,300 --> 00:35:06,966
"Oh, no, that ain't what we want with you-

613
00:35:06,966 --> 00:35:09,900
We heard that your boys spent nights at the house.

614
00:35:09,900 --> 00:35:11,416
We want to know if Michael tampered with them, or

615
00:35:11,416 --> 00:35:14,500
just picked them up, or touched them in any kind of way.

616
00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:17,250
If he did we got $200,000 for you".

617
00:35:17,250 --> 00:35:19,533
I said, "huh?"- He said, "So what I'm gonna do-

618
00:35:19,533 --> 00:35:21,766
I'm gonna draw a check up, a contract up.

619
00:35:21,766 --> 00:35:23,533
show you we're fixing to give you $200,000".

620
00:35:24,250 --> 00:35:25,566
- So then you go to Germany,

621
00:35:25,566 --> 00:35:27,533
you get another 20,000.

622
00:35:27,533 --> 00:35:29,050
You go to Italy, another 20,000.

623
00:35:29,050 --> 00:35:30,849
Before you know it, you're up a hundred

624
00:35:30,849 --> 00:35:33,166
a hundred, two hundred thousand dollars, and

625
00:35:33,166 --> 00:35:36,099
that is enough for a family to come forward and talk.

626
00:35:36,300 --> 00:35:37,650
CHARLES: It happened repeatedly

627
00:35:37,650 --> 00:35:40,533
where people of dubious character were treated as

628
00:35:40,533 --> 00:35:44,016
credible sources when anybody with just an iota of

629
00:35:44,016 --> 00:35:46,816
investigative savvy would know that these are not

630
00:35:46,816 --> 00:35:49,650
people you want to be staking your reputation on.

631
00:35:49,650 --> 00:35:51,766
They were people who changed their stories

632
00:35:51,766 --> 00:35:53,699
depending on how much money you offered them.

633
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,500
BROKER: The first time I heard the story about, um, Jackson,

634
00:35:57,500 --> 00:36:01,016
his hand was outside the kid's pants.

635
00:36:01,016 --> 00:36:03,016
They were asking 100 grand.

636
00:36:03,016 --> 00:36:05,849
As soon as their price went up to 500 grand,

637
00:36:05,849 --> 00:36:09,250
the hand went inside the pants, so, come on.

638
00:36:15,533 --> 00:36:18,216
REPORTER: But basically, LaToya you're drawing your own conclusion

639
00:36:18,216 --> 00:36:21,933
that Michael abused young men, young boys

640
00:36:21,933 --> 00:36:23,816
- No, I'm not drawing my own conclusion that

641
00:36:23,816 --> 00:36:25,816
he abused young boys. That's totally-

642
00:36:25,816 --> 00:36:28,250
That's totally wrong. I am not drawing my own conclusion.

643
00:36:28,500 --> 00:36:30,016
CHARLES: LaToya Jackson at the time

644
00:36:30,016 --> 00:36:31,733
was married to a man called Jack Gordon

645
00:36:31,733 --> 00:36:34,616
who was involved with Genovese Mafia.

646
00:36:34,616 --> 00:36:36,366
He was a very disturbed character.

647
00:36:36,366 --> 00:36:38,699
He was very violent and abusive.

648
00:36:38,699 --> 00:36:40,666
He pimped LaToya out like a prostitute.

649
00:36:40,666 --> 00:36:45,133
He forced her to do semi pornographic magazine shoots- that kind of thing.

650
00:36:45,133 --> 00:36:48,900
and if she disagreed with him or refused to do anything that he told her to,

651
00:36:48,900 --> 00:36:50,666
then he would either beat her

652
00:36:50,666 --> 00:36:53,783
or he threaten to have members of her family killed.

653
00:36:54,183 --> 00:36:59,466
- This went on for many, many, many years.
- He literally said I'm gonna kill you, your brother,

654
00:36:59,466 --> 00:37:00,783
- Everybody?
- Yes.

655
00:37:00,783 --> 00:37:04,066
No, not everybody, just myself, Michael and Janet.

656
00:37:04,300 --> 00:37:05,666
CHARLES: This is not some excuse which

657
00:37:05,666 --> 00:37:07,616
has been dreamed up subsequently,

658
00:37:07,616 --> 00:37:09,466
this was known and reported at the time.

659
00:37:10,266 --> 00:37:11,383
- He grabbed a bedspread,

660
00:37:11,383 --> 00:37:14,333
he put it over her head, started to strangle her with it.

661
00:37:14,333 --> 00:37:16,616
At the same time, he grabbed her arm

662
00:37:16,616 --> 00:37:19,866
and started to twist it so badly that she felt like it was gonna come out.

663
00:37:20,383 --> 00:37:22,416
CHARLES: And so all of a sudden, LaToya,

664
00:37:22,416 --> 00:37:25,383
who'd been previously speaking out in favor of Michael

665
00:37:25,383 --> 00:37:27,900
suddenly u-turned started selling interviews

666
00:37:27,900 --> 00:37:30,983
claiming that her brother in fact was guilty.

667
00:37:30,983 --> 00:37:35,300
In early 1994, LaToya appeared on an Australian TV show

668
00:37:35,300 --> 00:37:39,816
and the host of the show realized that there was something wrong with the situation.

669
00:37:39,816 --> 00:37:42,466
He realized that all of the answers LaToya was giving

670
00:37:42,466 --> 00:37:45,099
were being fed to her by somebody else who he

671
00:37:45,099 --> 00:37:48,416
identified on the show as her husband, Jack Gordon.

672
00:37:49,266 --> 00:37:50,533
Well, Miss Jackson carried on with

673
00:37:50,533 --> 00:37:52,616
that nonsense for about another 25 minutes,

674
00:37:52,616 --> 00:37:55,300
all the time being prompted by someone in the studio,

675
00:37:55,300 --> 00:37:57,583
but off-camera, presumably her husband manager

676
00:37:57,583 --> 00:37:58,300
Jack Gordon.

677
00:37:58,583 --> 00:38:00,416
- People like you will let this go on

678
00:38:00,416 --> 00:38:01,300
and it's very very wrong.
- Who's talking to you in the background?

679
00:38:01,300 --> 00:38:02,333
- Who's talking to you in the background?

680
00:38:02,333 --> 00:38:04,616
- So I... I... I refuse to sit here and listen to you
- Who's...

681
00:38:04,616 --> 00:38:08,500
and listen to you talk this way. I think it's wrong of you.
[Host] Who's talking to you in the background?

682
00:38:08,500 --> 00:38:10,416
- So I have nothing else to save you whatsoever.

683
00:38:10,933 --> 00:38:13,016
CHARLES: And when he questioned her about it on the air,

684
00:38:13,016 --> 00:38:15,383
she just looked like a deer in the headlights

685
00:38:15,383 --> 00:38:17,300
and suddenly stood up and stormed off the show

686
00:38:17,300 --> 00:38:18,699
and wouldn't answer any more questions.

687
00:38:18,983 --> 00:38:20,699
LATOYA: I can't hear you but I definitely want you to hear

688
00:38:20,699 --> 00:38:22,933
what I'm saying, because you do have a serious

689
00:38:22,933 --> 00:38:24,616
problem, sir. Whatever it is, I don't know,

690
00:38:24,616 --> 00:38:26,900
but you do need to go see a psychiatrist. Goodbye.

691
00:38:27,266 --> 00:38:29,866
CHARLES: Her husband decided that

692
00:38:29,866 --> 00:38:32,866
there was a lot of money to be made from

693
00:38:32,866 --> 00:38:35,300
switching sides and saying that Michael was guilty

694
00:38:35,300 --> 00:38:36,500
and indeed, there was.

695
00:38:37,383 --> 00:38:38,816
HOST: I'm sorry, are you feeling OK?

696
00:38:38,816 --> 00:38:41,066
Are you alright? Are you alright?

697
00:38:41,066 --> 00:38:43,066
Do you need a handkerchief or something like that?

698
00:38:43,750 --> 00:38:46,616
- After the allegation hit, they-

699
00:38:46,616 --> 00:38:49,566
prior to that, they were on opposite ends

700
00:38:49,566 --> 00:38:52,633
because June never did agree with the allegation

701
00:38:52,633 --> 00:38:54,699
But after the allegation hit,

702
00:38:54,699 --> 00:38:56,216
they were meeting in my attorney

703
00:38:56,216 --> 00:39:00,099
David Schwartz, June Chandler, Evan Chandler,

704
00:39:00,099 --> 00:39:01,233
and my attorney.

705
00:39:01,233 --> 00:39:03,349
They were all meeting behind closed doors

706
00:39:03,349 --> 00:39:05,250
in my attorney's office.

707
00:39:05,250 --> 00:39:08,800
- I decided to drop the case ‘cause

708
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,116
I, at that time, as an attorney

709
00:39:12,116 --> 00:39:17,650
did not like to be involved in cases that I didn't believe in.

710
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,483
GERALDINE: And I heard Evan blurt out, he said,

711
00:39:21,483 --> 00:39:25,150
'It's my ass that's in danger of going to prison right here!'

712
00:39:25,150 --> 00:39:26,483
Inside the law office,

713
00:39:26,483 --> 00:39:28,683
the only thing they were asking for was money.

714
00:39:28,683 --> 00:39:30,083
"Where's his money? How much?"

715
00:39:30,083 --> 00:39:32,150
They were sending discovery in

716
00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:35,033
and the discovery was only trying to find his money.

717
00:39:35,033 --> 00:39:36,483
That was crazy too. I'm like,

718
00:39:36,483 --> 00:39:38,433
"Y'all just looking for money?

719
00:39:38,433 --> 00:39:40,550
You're not looking for justice?

720
00:39:40,550 --> 00:39:42,199
You're only looking for money?"

721
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:49,199
(soft piano music fades out)

722
00:39:50,433 --> 00:39:52,433
JOSEPHINE: I mean, my mind EXPLODED

723
00:39:52,433 --> 00:39:54,400
when I- I found out who he was and I-

724
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,316
I definitely told some people who were close to me

725
00:39:57,316 --> 00:40:01,633
I didn't confront him though, because at that point in time, you know-

726
00:40:01,633 --> 00:40:03,400
I knew that I believed Michael was innocent,

727
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,116
but the fact that matter is I didn't know 100%

728
00:40:06,116 --> 00:40:09,033
and if there was even like- one shred of doubt,

729
00:40:09,033 --> 00:40:13,550
I didn't want to risk re-traumatizing somebody who was potentially a victim.

730
00:40:13,550 --> 00:40:17,033
And remember, at that point in time, Jordan Chandler was the only accuser

731
00:40:17,033 --> 00:40:19,199
and the media certainly wasn't focused on it.

732
00:40:19,199 --> 00:40:23,116
They were more focused on you know, Michael Jackson's new album release

733
00:40:23,116 --> 00:40:26,833
and um, you know, it wasn't all flattering but you know,

734
00:40:26,833 --> 00:40:29,433
it seemed like this- this was, you know, water under the bridge

735
00:40:29,433 --> 00:40:31,750
and something that didn't need to be addressed.

736
00:40:31,750 --> 00:40:33,949
He was a nice guy, I mean, I'm gonna be honest.

737
00:40:33,949 --> 00:40:36,800
He was he was very nice, always very polite.

738
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:38,883
He would always carry a guitar around with him.

739
00:40:38,883 --> 00:40:40,599
He made his own music.

740
00:40:40,599 --> 00:40:44,516
He would describe it as "Pop/R&B like Michael Jackson".

741
00:40:44,516 --> 00:40:47,550
I remember that because he said it many times, very clearly.

742
00:40:47,550 --> 00:40:50,316
He would wear fedoras. Um..

743
00:40:50,316 --> 00:40:52,116
Yeah, that was- that was Jordan.

744
00:40:53,283 --> 00:40:58,633
(sad somber music)

745
00:40:59,233 --> 00:41:02,199
REPORTER: What were your determinations when you examined him?

746
00:41:02,199 --> 00:41:05,000
- He seemed to essentially be a healthy guy.

747
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,400
The lupus is an autoimmune disease and he only had skin involvement,

748
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:12,083
which had destroyed part of the skin of his nose and

749
00:41:12,083 --> 00:41:18,116
his nasal surgeries and all were really reconstructive to try and look normal.

750
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,083
- Lupus is an autoimmune disease, as you've said,

751
00:41:21,083 --> 00:41:23,233
where the immune system, one of our larger systems

752
00:41:23,233 --> 00:41:26,516
that's designed to protect us against germs and viruses,

753
00:41:26,516 --> 00:41:30,716
actually attacks our own body's cells and tissues.

754
00:41:30,716 --> 00:41:35,000
Many patients with lupus have vitiligo, but he had a form of skin lupus

755
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:39,716
called discoid lupus which affects about 40% of the patients with lupus,

756
00:41:39,716 --> 00:41:41,400
and you do get depigmentation.

757
00:41:45,116 --> 00:41:48,633
CHARLES: Michael Jackson suffered from a skin disease called vitiligo.

758
00:41:48,633 --> 00:41:52,349
He was accused throughout his career for decades by the media

759
00:41:52,349 --> 00:41:55,349
of deliberately bleaching his skin from brown to white

760
00:41:55,349 --> 00:41:57,883
because they said that he hated his race.

761
00:41:58,316 --> 00:42:00,599
- Is your skin lighter because you don't like being black?

762
00:42:00,916 --> 00:42:04,283
CHARLES: He insisted throughout his life that he in fact suffered from vitiligo.

763
00:42:04,550 --> 00:42:09,199
- I have a skin disorder that destroys the pigmentation of the skin.

764
00:42:09,199 --> 00:42:10,599
It's something that I cannot help.

765
00:42:10,916 --> 00:42:12,349
CHARLES: and then when he passed away,

766
00:42:12,349 --> 00:42:17,400
his autopsy report confirmed that he did indeed suffer from vitiligo.

767
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,750
Vitiligo is a disease which attacks the pigment in the skin

768
00:42:20,750 --> 00:42:24,550
and what it does is it turns your skin a very pale white color-

769
00:42:24,550 --> 00:42:29,199
almost translucent, and it makes it very sensitive to the sun.

770
00:42:29,199 --> 00:42:31,550
So it's a very debilitating condition.

771
00:42:32,199 --> 00:42:33,800
- One thing you say to lupus patients:

772
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:35,316
Don't let the sun hit your skin.

773
00:42:35,316 --> 00:42:37,750
- That's right, ultraviolet light.
- So that umbrella, which he'd

774
00:42:37,750 --> 00:42:40,000
carry out in the sun may have been just that?
- That's exactly correct.

775
00:42:41,716 --> 00:42:44,599
CHARLES: So what it does is it doesn't you know,

776
00:42:44,599 --> 00:42:47,683
turn you from brown to white all in one go, of course.

777
00:42:47,683 --> 00:42:50,116
It happens in tiny increments

778
00:42:50,116 --> 00:42:52,550
and it happens at different speeds all over your body

779
00:42:52,550 --> 00:42:55,316
so it can leave you looking almost like a

780
00:42:55,316 --> 00:42:57,050
paint splatter or blood splatter.

781
00:42:57,050 --> 00:42:58,683
It's very random.

782
00:43:01,883 --> 00:43:05,483
DOCTOR: It's very interesting. It affects the neck, the face,

783
00:43:05,483 --> 00:43:08,366
the- the upper part of the wrists, and the groin.

784
00:43:08,916 --> 00:43:10,766
CHARLES: So the allegation by Evan Chandler

785
00:43:10,766 --> 00:43:13,966
was that his son could accurately describe discoloration

786
00:43:13,966 --> 00:43:18,766
on Michael Jackson's genitals which had been caused by vitiligo.

787
00:43:18,766 --> 00:43:21,316
They seek and obtain a warrant which allows them to

788
00:43:21,316 --> 00:43:25,283
force Michael Jackson to submit to a naked photoshoot by the police.

789
00:43:26,183 --> 00:43:28,016
- I have been forced to submit

790
00:43:28,016 --> 00:43:31,966
to a dehumanizing and humiliating examination

791
00:43:31,966 --> 00:43:34,933
by the Santa Barbara County Sheriff's Department and the

792
00:43:34,933 --> 00:43:37,566
Los Angeles Police Department earlier this week.

793
00:43:37,566 --> 00:43:42,599
They served a search warrant on me which allowed them to view and photograph my body,

794
00:43:42,599 --> 00:43:47,750
including my penis, my buttocks, my lower torso, thighs,

795
00:43:47,750 --> 00:43:51,266
and any other error that they wanted.

796
00:43:51,266 --> 00:43:53,550
They were supposedly looking for any discoloration:

797
00:43:53,550 --> 00:43:57,599
spotting, blotches, or other evidence of a skin color disorder,

798
00:43:57,599 --> 00:44:01,633
called 'vitiligo', which I have previously spoken about.

799
00:44:01,633 --> 00:44:05,516
The warrant also directed me to cooperate in any examination

800
00:44:05,516 --> 00:44:09,650
of my body by their physician to determine the condition of my skin

801
00:44:09,650 --> 00:44:13,916
including whether I have vitiligo or any other skin disorder.

802
00:44:13,916 --> 00:44:18,766
The warrant further stated that I had no right to refuse the examination or photographs,

803
00:44:18,766 --> 00:44:23,233
and if I failed to cooperate with them, they would introduce that refusal

804
00:44:23,233 --> 00:44:27,233
at any trial as an indication of my guilt.

805
00:44:27,233 --> 00:44:30,083
It was the most humiliating ordeal of my life-

806
00:44:30,083 --> 00:44:31,883
(deep breath)

807
00:44:31,883 --> 00:44:34,916
One that no person should ever have to suffer,

808
00:44:34,916 --> 00:44:38,283
and even after experiencing the indignity-

809
00:44:38,283 --> 00:44:40,316
of this search,

810
00:44:40,316 --> 00:44:43,283
the parties involved were still not satisfied,

811
00:44:43,283 --> 00:44:46,116
and wanted to take even more pictures.

812
00:44:46,116 --> 00:44:48,116
It was a nightmare,

813
00:44:48,116 --> 00:44:50,433
a horrifying nightmare, but if this is what

814
00:44:50,433 --> 00:44:53,683
I have to endure to prove my innocence,

815
00:44:53,683 --> 00:44:56,083
my complete innocence,

816
00:44:56,083 --> 00:44:56,966
so be it.

817
00:44:57,266 --> 00:44:59,633
CHARLES: There's a book by Evan Chandler's brother, Ray,

818
00:44:59,633 --> 00:45:03,666
where he quotes Evan as having a discussion with his lawyer, Larry Feldman

819
00:45:03,666 --> 00:45:06,800
And they're talking about the vitiligo situation.

820
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,550
The DA's office has told the Chandler's that Michael has

821
00:45:09,550 --> 00:45:13,033
a skin condition called vitiligo and that the skin condition

822
00:45:13,033 --> 00:45:15,550
can constantly change the way that your body looks

823
00:45:15,550 --> 00:45:18,633
because it's constantly attacking the pigment, and so,

824
00:45:18,633 --> 00:45:20,866
the District Attorney has told the Chandler's that this is

825
00:45:20,866 --> 00:45:23,949
great for them because if Jordan Chandler's description

826
00:45:23,949 --> 00:45:25,833
matches, then it matches!

827
00:45:25,833 --> 00:45:28,000
But if it doesn't match, then they can just say,

828
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,466
"Oh, well, that's because of the vitiligo".

829
00:45:30,466 --> 00:45:33,750
So Larry Feldman says, "Either way, we win!"

830
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,716
- So after they searched Michael Jackson's body,

831
00:45:38,716 --> 00:45:41,866
No arrest warrant was issued. Charles,

832
00:45:41,866 --> 00:45:45,266
what were the initial reports about this body search?

833
00:45:46,316 --> 00:45:49,633
CHARLES: In early 1994, law enforcement sources told

834
00:45:49,633 --> 00:45:54,066
2 different media outlets: Reuters and USA Today

835
00:45:54,066 --> 00:45:55,066
that there was no match.

836
00:45:55,699 --> 00:45:58,783
DANNY: Jordan Chandler's drawing of Michael Jackson's genitalia

837
00:45:58,783 --> 00:46:02,466
have since been leaked, and when you really look at it

838
00:46:02,466 --> 00:46:06,666
with words such as "my theory" and "be selective",

839
00:46:06,666 --> 00:46:10,183
it's questionable whether these are truly Jordan's own descriptions

840
00:46:10,183 --> 00:46:12,550
or instructions from someone else.

841
00:46:12,550 --> 00:46:14,466
It's also important to note that Evan Chandler has

842
00:46:14,466 --> 00:46:17,550
admittingly given Michael Jackson painkillers through

843
00:46:17,550 --> 00:46:21,833
injections to his buttocks. So at the very least,

844
00:46:21,833 --> 00:46:25,349
Evan saw Jackson's gluteus and that he had discoloration

845
00:46:25,349 --> 00:46:26,833
on his lower body region.

846
00:46:29,666 --> 00:46:31,349
CHARLES: The Smoking Gun obtains a document

847
00:46:31,349 --> 00:46:34,533
which is called, they say, "The Linden Affidavit".

848
00:46:34,533 --> 00:46:36,849
It's written by a Detective Linden who works for the

849
00:46:36,849 --> 00:46:39,933
authorities that are investigating the Jordan Chandler case.

850
00:46:39,933 --> 00:46:43,133
And she has taken from Jordan Chandler a description

851
00:46:43,133 --> 00:46:45,800
of Michael Jackson's genitals, and

852
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:50,199
Jordan Chandler tells Linden that Michael Jackson is circumcised.

853
00:46:50,199 --> 00:46:52,283
When they conduct the body search,

854
00:46:52,283 --> 00:46:55,283
it turns out Michael Jackson is in fact not circumcised,

855
00:46:55,283 --> 00:46:58,199
meaning his description has not matched.

856
00:47:06,199 --> 00:47:08,283
CHARLES: What had happened was that Barry Rothman

857
00:47:08,283 --> 00:47:11,599
was being sued by Michael Jackson for extortion,

858
00:47:11,599 --> 00:47:14,166
and so he quit representing the Chandler's.

859
00:47:14,166 --> 00:47:17,650
The Chandler's then proceeded to hire Gloria Allred,

860
00:47:17,650 --> 00:47:19,716
who held a press conference claiming that the

861
00:47:19,716 --> 00:47:22,283
Chandler's were ready for a criminal case.

862
00:47:22,283 --> 00:47:25,083
- to make a charge against a celebrity...

863
00:47:25,083 --> 00:47:28,216
DANNY: Gloria Allred is shortly fired and Barry Rothman,

864
00:47:28,216 --> 00:47:30,766
who's now working in the background, suggests

865
00:47:30,766 --> 00:47:34,449
Larry Feldman as a replacement, an attorney who is

866
00:47:34,449 --> 00:47:36,500
willing to push for a civil case.

867
00:47:36,500 --> 00:47:41,966
Charles, what is the difference between a civil case and a criminal case?

868
00:47:42,300 --> 00:47:45,933
CHARLES: A civil case is where you sue somebody, and that's for money.

869
00:47:45,933 --> 00:47:50,116
Whereas a criminal case is brought by the state, the government,

870
00:47:50,116 --> 00:47:53,833
and that's a case where if you're convicted, then you go to prison.

871
00:47:53,833 --> 00:47:56,866
So they're two very separate processes.

872
00:47:56,866 --> 00:47:59,433
What happens is the criminal case stalls because

873
00:47:59,433 --> 00:48:03,199
they can't find any evidence to suggest that Michael's done anything wrong.

874
00:48:03,199 --> 00:48:06,516
So they raid his house: they don't find anything incriminating.

875
00:48:06,516 --> 00:48:10,400
They raid his family home: they don't find anything incriminating.

876
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:14,750
They raid his doctor's offices: they don't find anything incriminating.

877
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:16,916
Of course, you've got a boy at the center of the case

878
00:48:16,916 --> 00:48:20,400
who at first said he wasn't molested then changed his

879
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,516
story and said that he was molested and only changed

880
00:48:23,516 --> 00:48:26,449
his mind after being given sodium amytal.

881
00:48:26,449 --> 00:48:28,883
So then they go off looking for other victims,

882
00:48:28,883 --> 00:48:30,800
and they can't find any.

883
00:48:30,933 --> 00:48:33,583
- In fact, if anybody wants to go back to 1993

884
00:48:33,583 --> 00:48:36,300
when I was interviewed by the Santa Barbara Police Department,

885
00:48:36,300 --> 00:48:38,533
I sat there and I gave them the names.

886
00:48:38,533 --> 00:48:41,099
They're on record. They have all of this information.

887
00:48:41,099 --> 00:48:43,333
But they were scanning Michael Jackson.

888
00:48:43,333 --> 00:48:45,983
All they cared about was trying to find something on Michael Jackson.

889
00:48:45,983 --> 00:48:49,183
- Who you said, by the way, did not abuse you.
- who Michael was innocent!

890
00:48:49,183 --> 00:48:51,933
and that was what the interview was about with the police in 1993.

891
00:48:51,933 --> 00:48:54,216
I told them, "he is not that guy!" and they said,

892
00:48:54,216 --> 00:48:56,016
"Well, maybe you just don't understand your friend."

893
00:48:56,016 --> 00:48:58,900
And I said, "No, I know the difference between pedophiles

894
00:48:58,900 --> 00:49:01,500
and somebody who's not a pedophile because I've been molested!

895
00:49:01,500 --> 00:49:03,183
Here's the names! Go investigate!

896
00:49:03,183 --> 00:49:06,766
And these detectives hammer away at Corey Feldman:

897
00:49:06,766 --> 00:49:11,766
"What happened with you and Michael Jackson?" and over and over and over again,

898
00:49:11,766 --> 00:49:15,766
Corey Feldman says, "Nothing happened, I have racked my brain!

899
00:49:15,766 --> 00:49:19,916
I've thought about, 'well did something happen and I didn't realize it?' No! Nothing happened.”

900
00:49:19,916 --> 00:49:24,800
and they don't want to hear it! It seems like that is not what they want to hear.

901
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:29,849
They hammer away at him over and over again for more than an hour.

902
00:49:29,849 --> 00:49:32,000
What's really amazing is at one point he goes “You know,

903
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,250
I know what it’s like to be molested. I WAS molested."

904
00:49:35,250 --> 00:49:38,250
He names this person that he accuses of molesting him,

905
00:49:38,250 --> 00:49:41,000
and even says what his occupation is-

906
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:45,050
These detectives show very little interest in pursuing that angle

907
00:49:45,050 --> 00:49:47,050
and bring it right back to Michael Jackson,

908
00:49:47,050 --> 00:49:49,566
"Well, did you talk to Michael Jackson about that?"

909
00:49:49,766 --> 00:49:52,400
CHARLES: So the criminal case is basically going nowhere

910
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,849
but meanwhile, the civil case is moving

911
00:49:54,849 --> 00:49:58,166
through the court system at the usual speed.

912
00:49:58,166 --> 00:50:02,966
So the judge, in October of 1993, orders depositions.

913
00:50:02,966 --> 00:50:05,400
A deposition is where you're forced to state your case,

914
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,683
to give your evidence under oath.

915
00:50:07,683 --> 00:50:10,449
It can be done in court or it can be done under oath

916
00:50:10,449 --> 00:50:13,849
somewhere else and audiotaped or videotaped.

917
00:50:13,849 --> 00:50:18,699
Now, he orders that Michael Jackson is to be deposed by January '94.

918
00:50:18,699 --> 00:50:23,300
The problem with this is that if you have a civil case which comes before a criminal case,

919
00:50:23,300 --> 00:50:25,383
and you're forced to give away your defense,

920
00:50:25,383 --> 00:50:29,466
then what that does is gives the Prosecutor's a front-row seat for your defense,

921
00:50:29,466 --> 00:50:34,300
They can then go away and tailor their criminal case to circumvent your defense case.

922
00:50:34,300 --> 00:50:39,833
So for example, if you say I have an alibi in the civil case,

923
00:50:39,833 --> 00:50:43,199
Then the prosecutors can go and tailor their criminal case

924
00:50:43,199 --> 00:50:47,783
where they change all the dates and they could just change the case to get around it.

925
00:50:47,783 --> 00:50:50,800
If you have a witness, they go and discredit the witness

926
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:54,000
or they put the charges on a day when the witness wasn't there

927
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,116
so they just take your defense out chunk by chunk,

928
00:50:57,116 --> 00:51:01,550
and by the time you come into a Criminal Court, where your life is on the line,

929
00:51:01,550 --> 00:51:04,000
your freedom, rather than your bank balance,

930
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:05,633
you have no defense.

931
00:51:05,633 --> 00:51:08,016
You've wasted your defense trying to save some money,

932
00:51:08,016 --> 00:51:09,983
and now you're going to prison.

933
00:51:09,983 --> 00:51:13,300
That is the problem with a civil case proceeding a criminal case.

934
00:51:13,300 --> 00:51:18,266
Now from October 1993 to January 94,

935
00:51:18,266 --> 00:51:23,583
Michael's defense goes back to court 4 different times and argues to the judge,

936
00:51:23,583 --> 00:51:26,816
"We need the civil case delayed so it doesn't precede the

937
00:51:26,816 --> 00:51:30,066
criminal case because this is unconstitutional.

938
00:51:30,066 --> 00:51:32,583
If you force our client to give away his defense,

939
00:51:32,583 --> 00:51:36,300
then you're denying him his constitutional right to a fair trial".

940
00:51:37,016 --> 00:51:41,699
- Michael Jackson lost 2 very important motions that he should have won.

941
00:51:41,699 --> 00:51:43,300
One was a preference.

942
00:51:43,300 --> 00:51:46,183
Preference has to do with either: he was too young to remember

943
00:51:46,183 --> 00:51:49,016
and there's a memory issue, or he's too old.

944
00:51:49,016 --> 00:51:50,933
CHARLES: What Larry Feldman keeps arguing is that

945
00:51:50,933 --> 00:51:52,783
because the complainant is a child,

946
00:51:52,783 --> 00:51:55,500
his memory is not fully developed,

947
00:51:55,500 --> 00:51:59,500
and he would be at risk of losing his memory if his testimony was not heard quickly.

948
00:51:59,699 --> 00:52:03,933
- Jordie Chandler was 14 at the time. He wasn't too young or too old.

949
00:52:04,300 --> 00:52:07,616
CHARLES: The Jackson lawyers are going to court again and again and again

950
00:52:07,616 --> 00:52:12,183
to try to get this deposition put back- to get the civil case put back

951
00:52:12,183 --> 00:52:14,466
so the criminal case can precede it.

952
00:52:14,466 --> 00:52:17,783
Meanwhile, the Chandler's are fighting hard to stop that from happening.

953
00:52:18,266 --> 00:52:23,266
- Evan Chandler was asking the court to push the civil case before-

954
00:52:23,266 --> 00:52:25,900
while the criminal case was going because normally,

955
00:52:25,900 --> 00:52:30,066
the criminal case has to take precedence over the civil case.

956
00:52:30,066 --> 00:52:33,583
He shouldn't have one on that one because constitutionally,

957
00:52:33,583 --> 00:52:37,783
that went against Michael's constitutional right. He won on that one, too.

958
00:52:38,066 --> 00:52:42,300
CHARLES: Michael's deposition is due on a particular date in January '94.

959
00:52:42,300 --> 00:52:47,216
What happens is initially he's saved by the Los Angeles earthquake of '94,

960
00:52:47,216 --> 00:52:50,866
which happens the day before he's supposed to be deposed.

961
00:52:50,866 --> 00:52:53,616
That buys them an extra week, but within that week,

962
00:52:53,616 --> 00:52:56,783
they're again not able to postpone the civil case deposition.

963
00:52:57,216 --> 00:53:00,983
- When the judge is not ruling in your favor, that tells an attorney:

964
00:53:00,983 --> 00:53:04,733
maybe we need to settle this because he's not ruling in our favor right now.

965
00:53:04,933 --> 00:53:06,333
CHARLES: And so on the eve,

966
00:53:06,333 --> 00:53:09,266
literally the night before he would have been

967
00:53:09,266 --> 00:53:11,500
forced to give away his defense under oath,

968
00:53:12,666 --> 00:53:14,216
The civil settlement is reached.

969
00:53:14,983 --> 00:53:16,266
The civil case is settled.

970
00:53:16,733 --> 00:53:18,066
- He was negotiating.

971
00:53:18,066 --> 00:53:22,666
Johnnie Cochran came on board, he was negotiating with the insurance company.

972
00:53:22,666 --> 00:53:26,183
At first, the insurance company said, no, they weren't gonna pay it,

973
00:53:26,183 --> 00:53:29,500
and he went back and forth back and forth and he nego-

974
00:53:29,500 --> 00:53:32,416
Johnnie Cochran negotiated. He was a great negotiator,

975
00:53:32,416 --> 00:53:35,733
because he was a P.I. Attorney. He started out a P.I. Attorney.

976
00:53:35,733 --> 00:53:39,983
and he convinced the insurance company to pay the settlement.

977
00:53:39,983 --> 00:53:43,266
When Michael settled the case, the judge- um,

978
00:53:43,266 --> 00:53:46,383
They made him drop his extortion claim,

979
00:53:46,383 --> 00:53:49,416
so the real story hasn't been told.

980
00:53:49,416 --> 00:53:54,266
The real story is that Michael Jackson was the victim of an elaborate

981
00:53:54,266 --> 00:53:57,816
extortion scheme that launched the false allegation.

982
00:54:00,133 --> 00:54:04,666
("Moonlight Sonata" plays)

983
00:54:05,466 --> 00:54:06,783
reporter: Superstar, Michael Jackson,

984
00:54:06,783 --> 00:54:11,099
and the teenage boy who filed a civil molestation suit against him

985
00:54:11,099 --> 00:54:13,816
have reached a multi-million dollar out-of-court settlement.

986
00:54:13,816 --> 00:54:16,416
Attorneys on both sides appeared today at a joint press conference

987
00:54:16,416 --> 00:54:19,099
to announce a mutual resolution of the lawsuit,

988
00:54:19,099 --> 00:54:22,616
but lawyers are not discussing the actual amount of the settlement.

989
00:54:23,416 --> 00:54:27,133
CHARLES: Now, the civil settlement includes a specific clause

990
00:54:27,133 --> 00:54:29,900
which says that it doesn't preclude anybody involved

991
00:54:29,900 --> 00:54:34,699
from testifying in a criminal case, and then to reiterate that,

992
00:54:34,699 --> 00:54:37,216
at the press conference announcing the settlement,

993
00:54:37,216 --> 00:54:41,016
Larry Feldman specifically denies that this will have any impact

994
00:54:41,016 --> 00:54:44,616
on the criminal case.
REPORTER: Has Michael Jackson bought your client's silence?

995
00:54:44,616 --> 00:54:47,466
- I am not going to have anything to do with talking

996
00:54:47,466 --> 00:54:49,666
about the terms of the settlement and

997
00:54:49,666 --> 00:54:52,216
Nobody's bought anyone's silence.

998
00:54:52,616 --> 00:54:55,300
A civil case is only about money if they-

999
00:54:55,300 --> 00:54:57,133
you know, and I tell people this too:

1000
00:54:57,133 --> 00:55:00,783
we're in a state where they could have went after criminal-

1001
00:55:00,783 --> 00:55:05,383
him criminally and came back after the money: all they wanted.

1002
00:55:05,383 --> 00:55:11,066
A lot of people think because he settled the civil case, that that voided the criminal.

1003
00:55:11,066 --> 00:55:13,866
That's not true. It did not void the criminal.

1004
00:55:13,866 --> 00:55:17,300
The reason they never came after him criminally in '93

1005
00:55:17,300 --> 00:55:21,266
was because they couldn't find any corroborating evidence

1006
00:55:21,266 --> 00:55:23,783
to agree with Jordie Chandler's story.

1007
00:55:23,783 --> 00:55:26,783
As a matter of fact, they found out that the description

1008
00:55:26,783 --> 00:55:30,333
he gave of Michael's body was not accurate.

1009
00:55:30,333 --> 00:55:33,133
If that was accurate, that was corroborating.

1010
00:55:33,783 --> 00:55:35,783
CHARLES: As of the summer of 1994,

1011
00:55:35,783 --> 00:55:39,783
the prosecution is running a grand jury long after the settlement

1012
00:55:39,783 --> 00:55:43,133
and calls witnesses to the grand jury and questions them about

1013
00:55:43,133 --> 00:55:48,416
whether Michael Jackson could have had plastic surgery to his penis to avoid a match.

1014
00:55:48,416 --> 00:55:50,383
Now, why would they be doing that?

1015
00:55:50,383 --> 00:55:52,933
Why would they be calling witnesses and asking those questions

1016
00:55:52,933 --> 00:55:54,816
if in fact the photographs had matched?

1017
00:55:55,466 --> 00:55:59,733
See, people need to know they never indicted Michael in '93

1018
00:55:59,733 --> 00:56:02,900
'cause they couldn't come up with enough evidence to indict him.

1019
00:56:02,900 --> 00:56:05,816
And so, the way they spinning it, they're spinning it:

1020
00:56:05,816 --> 00:56:09,300
"Well, oh he said also that that voided the-"

1021
00:56:09,300 --> 00:56:10,616
No, it did not.

1022
00:56:10,616 --> 00:56:14,133
If that prosecutor, Tom Sneddon, could find

1023
00:56:14,133 --> 00:56:17,733
could have found anything to corroborate that boy's story,

1024
00:56:17,733 --> 00:56:20,666
he would have still gone- gone after him criminally, too.

1025
00:56:23,466 --> 00:56:36,349
("Moonlight Sonata" playing)

1026
00:56:37,199 --> 00:56:42,083
DANNY: Victor Gutierrez is a freelance reporter, born in Chile.

1027
00:56:42,083 --> 00:56:46,883
According to him, he first went to a NABLA meeting in 1986.

1028
00:56:46,883 --> 00:56:53,166
What is NAMBLA? NAMBLA stands for North American Men Boys Love Association,

1029
00:56:53,166 --> 00:56:55,599
So it's basically a pro-pedophile group.

1030
00:56:56,233 --> 00:57:02,716
-Tell us about you infiltrating this group.
-Actually, the infiltration was fairly easy, um,

1031
00:57:02,716 --> 00:57:06,283
They had a website. I paid $35. I joined the group.

1032
00:57:06,283 --> 00:57:08,516
They sent me a letter, um, praising me

1033
00:57:08,516 --> 00:57:12,000
for my courageous step in joining the organization.

1034
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:16,650
I began to get e-mails from them. I was subscribed to their magazine.

1035
00:57:16,650 --> 00:57:18,400
They started to send me their magazine.

1036
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:22,000
But they wouldn't allow me to attend any of their secret underground meetings

1037
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:25,516
until I'd been a member for 3 years and

1038
00:57:25,516 --> 00:57:28,716
had been sponsored by another "active duty" member.

1039
00:57:28,716 --> 00:57:34,083
Every conversation that I had was about where to go to have sex with little boys,

1040
00:57:34,083 --> 00:57:36,166
how they could attract little boys,

1041
00:57:36,166 --> 00:57:37,883
how they could groom little boys.

1042
00:57:37,883 --> 00:57:38,933
That was their agenda.

1043
00:57:39,383 --> 00:57:44,099
DANNY: So at this meeting, he overhears conversations talking about how

1044
00:57:44,099 --> 00:57:47,616
it would be great if Michael Jackson was a pedophile

1045
00:57:47,616 --> 00:57:49,983
because if Michael Jackson is a pedophile,

1046
00:57:49,983 --> 00:57:55,066
that makes it easier for societies to accept pedophilia as a whole.

1047
00:57:55,066 --> 00:58:01,099
So after this NAMBLA conference, after this 1986 conference,

1048
00:58:01,099 --> 00:58:06,733
it becomes Victor Gutierrez's mission to prove that Michael Jackson is a pedophile.

1049
00:58:06,733 --> 00:58:11,783
He starts befriending Michael Jackson's maids, former employees,

1050
00:58:11,783 --> 00:58:15,583
and he even approaches Joy Robson, Wade Robson's mother.

1051
00:58:15,583 --> 00:58:18,383
Joy Robson subsequently told him to get lost and

1052
00:58:18,383 --> 00:58:21,666
Joy Robson reported him to Michael Jackson.

1053
00:58:21,666 --> 00:58:25,900
This is in 1992, before allegations of Michael Jackson even rose.

1054
00:58:25,900 --> 00:58:28,333
So during the '93 allegations,

1055
00:58:28,333 --> 00:58:32,500
Victor Gutierrez served as a source for many journalists,

1056
00:58:32,500 --> 00:58:37,216
including but are not limited to Diane Dimond and Maureen Orth.

1057
00:58:37,216 --> 00:58:40,983
He also coaches Michael Jackson's former employees,

1058
00:58:40,983 --> 00:58:45,866
such as his maids, Blanca Francia and Adrian McManus,

1059
00:58:45,866 --> 00:58:49,466
notable ones, to sell their stories to tabloids.

1060
00:58:49,466 --> 00:58:53,783
In 1996, Victor Gutierrez wrote a book titled

1061
00:58:53,783 --> 00:58:59,300
"Michael Jackson Was My Lover", a book that glorified pedophilia

1062
00:58:59,300 --> 00:59:02,816
through the relationship between Michael Jackson and Jordan Chandler.

1063
00:59:03,066 --> 00:59:12,216
(sinister music)

1064
00:59:12,500 --> 00:59:15,016
The Chandler family has since dismissed

1065
00:59:15,016 --> 00:59:19,333
Victor Gutierrez's book as pure fiction. The Chandler's-

1066
00:59:19,333 --> 00:59:23,583
Raymond Chandler, released a book in 2004 titled,

1067
00:59:23,583 --> 00:59:25,466
"All That Glitters".

1068
00:59:25,983 --> 00:59:28,099
PUBLISHER: Within days of Jordan Chandler and his family

1069
00:59:28,099 --> 00:59:31,500
settling his 1993 lawsuit against Michael Jackson,

1070
00:59:31,500 --> 00:59:33,733
I received a call from Jordan's uncle.

1071
00:59:33,733 --> 00:59:37,216
He wanted to do a book in which he would describe in detail

1072
00:59:37,216 --> 00:59:39,849
the allegation of molestation against Michael Jackson,

1073
00:59:39,849 --> 00:59:44,650
and he said that Jordan's father had given him all the information he needed for the book,

1074
00:59:44,650 --> 00:59:48,099
and believed it was outside the bounds of the confidentiality agreement,

1075
00:59:48,099 --> 00:59:49,650
because he would be the author.

1076
00:59:49,900 --> 00:59:51,500
DANNY: After careful examination between

1077
00:59:51,500 --> 00:59:56,183
'Michael Jackson Was my Lover' and 'All That Glitters': these two books-

1078
00:59:56,183 --> 01:00:01,416
we have found many instances of consistent storytelling between the two books,

1079
01:00:01,416 --> 01:00:03,550
especially from Evan's point of view.

1080
01:00:03,550 --> 01:00:07,349
At times, the stories are even word-for-word the same.

1081
01:00:07,349 --> 01:00:11,616
Truthfully speaking, the only differences between the two books are the

1082
01:00:11,616 --> 01:00:15,783
supposed sexual acts between Michael Jackson and Jordan Chandler.

1083
01:00:15,783 --> 01:00:18,866
Now when you look at some of these parallel stories even deeper,

1084
01:00:18,866 --> 01:00:23,416
Gutierrez's book, which preceded the Chandler's book by 7 years,

1085
01:00:23,416 --> 01:00:26,383
even sources some stories directly to Evan.

1086
01:00:26,383 --> 01:00:31,900
So how would it be possible for Gutierrez to tell these confirmable stories first?

1087
01:00:31,900 --> 01:00:35,500
'Michael Jackson Was my Lover' also featured many documents

1088
01:00:36,116 --> 01:00:39,766
of the Chandler family that could only have come from Evan.

1089
01:00:40,033 --> 01:00:49,633
(eerie music)

1090
01:00:49,966 --> 01:00:52,800
This proves that Victor Gutierrez,

1091
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:56,833
a man who has an agenda for pushing Michael Jackson as a pedophile,

1092
01:00:56,833 --> 01:01:00,633
a man who had coached people to lie against Michael Jackson,

1093
01:01:00,633 --> 01:01:03,199
was in fact connected to Evan Chandler,

1094
01:01:03,199 --> 01:01:05,199
the father of the first accuser.

1095
01:01:05,483 --> 01:01:11,316
(intense violin music)

1096
01:01:11,616 --> 01:01:14,966
DIMOND: Ever since the Michael Jackson child molestation scandal broke,

1097
01:01:14,966 --> 01:01:18,650
we've gotten a constant stream of calls and letters from people

1098
01:01:18,650 --> 01:01:21,216
making dubious claims about the singer.

1099
01:01:21,216 --> 01:01:23,333
Frankly, we ignore most of them,

1100
01:01:23,333 --> 01:01:25,699
but when I heard the facts of this story,

1101
01:01:25,699 --> 01:01:28,633
I just had to go to Canada and check it out myself.

1102
01:01:29,233 --> 01:01:32,183
DANNY: The journalist, Diane Dimond, got a tip from her source

1103
01:01:32,183 --> 01:01:35,466
that a child had been molested by Michael Jackson.

1104
01:01:35,466 --> 01:01:41,116
This child lived in Toronto, so she flew to Toronto with authorities to interview the boy.

1105
01:01:41,283 --> 01:01:43,116
I'd like to make a confession about something that

1106
01:01:43,116 --> 01:01:45,116
happened between me and Michael Jackson.

1107
01:01:45,199 --> 01:01:49,283
DANNY: And this child proceeded to tell wild stories with vivid details.

1108
01:01:49,766 --> 01:01:53,000
- He started just touching like our stomach and things,

1109
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:56,516
like he'd rub our stomach and then he-he'd get lower and then,

1110
01:01:56,516 --> 01:01:58,883
that's when I started saying like, "What are you doing?"

1111
01:01:58,883 --> 01:02:02,566
He said, "It's okay, don't worry. Bodies are meant to be touched."

1112
01:02:02,566 --> 01:02:05,283
He showed me this place like a saddle shop,

1113
01:02:05,283 --> 01:02:08,199
where he said he-- he said he gets stuff for his animals there.

1114
01:02:08,199 --> 01:02:09,233
I don't know what he got but-

1115
01:02:09,233 --> 01:02:12,683
- They're gonna' think you're making it up.
- Yeah I know, I know.

1116
01:02:12,683 --> 01:02:15,033
But I don't care about his money, he can keep it.

1117
01:02:15,033 --> 01:02:18,199
His eyes are big and they're- they're dark, like cavernous

1118
01:02:18,199 --> 01:02:20,400
-like the sockets go right in, you know?

1119
01:02:20,633 --> 01:02:22,466
DIMOND: We showed the boy several photographs,

1120
01:02:22,466 --> 01:02:25,666
some of them were of Neverland employees,

1121
01:02:25,666 --> 01:02:29,066
and he was able to identify each and every one of them.

1122
01:02:29,599 --> 01:02:32,933
Yeah, that's him.. that's him.

1123
01:02:33,650 --> 01:02:35,733
I found him fairly believable too.

1124
01:02:35,733 --> 01:02:37,800
DANNY: During police interviews, the child broke down

1125
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:40,283
and confirmed that he had been coached.

1126
01:02:40,283 --> 01:02:44,000
At the end, it turned out he was coached by Rodney Allen.

1127
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:46,449
- About Neverland? About Hayvenhurst?

1128
01:02:46,449 --> 01:02:49,483
About Disneyland? About Michael Jackson's body-

1129
01:02:49,483 --> 01:02:52,849
Where did he get all that information?
- He got it from me.

1130
01:02:52,849 --> 01:02:58,133
- This kid is an A-1 Number One liar.
- Professional.

1131
01:02:58,133 --> 01:03:00,599
DANNY: Rodney Allen is currently serving a life sentence

1132
01:03:00,599 --> 01:03:03,733
in a Canadian prison for pedophilia.

1133
01:03:03,733 --> 01:03:07,333
Paula, a Michael Jackson investigator, has confirmed

1134
01:03:07,333 --> 01:03:10,766
through letters to Rodney Allen that

1135
01:03:10,766 --> 01:03:14,333
Rodney Allen was in fact connected to Victor Gutierrez.

1136
01:03:14,333 --> 01:03:19,133
In 1999, there was a blog post floating around the internet

1137
01:03:19,133 --> 01:03:21,250
that was said to be written by Rodney Allen,

1138
01:03:21,250 --> 01:03:24,849
but no one took it seriously at the time because there was no evidence

1139
01:03:24,849 --> 01:03:26,650
as to who authored the post.

1140
01:03:26,650 --> 01:03:29,849
Paula sent this blog post to Rodney Allen

1141
01:03:29,849 --> 01:03:34,166
and Rodney Allen has since confirmed that he in fact did write this confession,

1142
01:03:34,166 --> 01:03:36,199
and in the confession, this is what he talked

1143
01:03:36,199 --> 01:03:38,683
about in regards to the Jordan Chandler case.

1144
01:03:38,933 --> 01:03:48,133
(eerie music)

1145
01:03:48,333 --> 01:03:51,683
This obviously doesn't prove anything concrete, but

1146
01:03:51,683 --> 01:03:54,400
it's still interesting that Rodney Allen,

1147
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:57,000
a man who was connected to Victor Gutierrez,

1148
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,483
a man who has a history of coaching kids to lie against Michael Jackson

1149
01:04:00,483 --> 01:04:02,000
had that to say.

1150
01:04:04,533 --> 01:04:08,199
REPORTER: The King of Pop chocks up a big win!

1151
01:04:08,199 --> 01:04:12,000
A jury has awarded Michael Jackson a whopping $2.7 million

1152
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:16,000
for a defamation lawsuit he filed against freelance writer, Victor Gutierrez.

1153
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:18,566
Gutierrez claimed on a tabloid TV show that he'd seen a

1154
01:04:18,566 --> 01:04:20,650
video of Jackson having sex with a boy.

1155
01:04:20,650 --> 01:04:25,199
ATTORNEY: This guy made it up out of thin air maliciously to hurt Michael,

1156
01:04:25,199 --> 01:04:28,000
and he told anybody and- anybody and everybody who would listen.

1157
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:29,883
When it came time to prove it in this court,

1158
01:04:29,883 --> 01:04:31,000
he couldn't prove it.

1159
01:04:31,316 --> 01:04:41,066
(harrowing music)

1160
01:04:41,266 --> 01:04:43,599
Years later, in the early 2000s,

1161
01:04:43,599 --> 01:04:47,599
Victor Gutierrez again started spreading rumors regarding sexual abuse.

1162
01:04:47,599 --> 01:04:51,516
This time around the involvement of politicians in Chile.

1163
01:04:51,516 --> 01:04:55,266
A boy claimed he participated in these sexual activities

1164
01:04:55,266 --> 01:04:58,800
and was able to describe stories with vivid details.

1165
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:03,199
It was later proven in court that the boy had never met this politician.

1166
01:05:03,199 --> 01:05:06,633
While questioned, the boy could not even remember the politician's name

1167
01:05:06,633 --> 01:05:09,800
and had to be prompted by Victor Gutierrez off camera.

1168
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:12,633
It was later discovered that Gutierrez had paid this child

1169
01:05:12,633 --> 01:05:15,550
around 10 to 20 thousand pesos.

1170
01:05:15,550 --> 01:05:18,466
There were no other witnesses, nor proof,

1171
01:05:18,466 --> 01:05:22,349
just the words of a boy who were connected to Victor Gutierrez,

1172
01:05:22,349 --> 01:05:25,433
the same man who was connected to Evan Chandler.

1173
01:05:26,300 --> 01:05:39,099
(haunting piano music)

1174
01:05:40,216 --> 01:05:43,099
And we also weren't- and I've been very transparent.

1175
01:05:43,099 --> 01:05:45,133
We weren't best friends. We weren't very close.

1176
01:05:45,133 --> 01:05:47,266
I kept, you know, him at arm's length

1177
01:05:47,266 --> 01:05:52,333
because I knew who he was, and I didn't really know how to deal with that.

1178
01:05:52,333 --> 01:05:54,066
And he was very close with, um-

1179
01:05:54,066 --> 01:05:56,066
I remember one other person in the program

1180
01:05:56,066 --> 01:05:59,699
who also was sort of like a pop R&B guy.

1181
01:05:59,699 --> 01:06:04,666
I believe he did production, and he also was a big Michael Jackson fan.

1182
01:06:04,666 --> 01:06:09,133
So I mean, of- when I think about the people in the program that he-

1183
01:06:09,133 --> 01:06:12,066
I saw him with, the people that he did surround himself with

1184
01:06:12,066 --> 01:06:14,266
were people who were Michael Jackson fans, you know?

1185
01:06:14,266 --> 01:06:17,416
I was told that at a party, um, Jordan

1186
01:06:17,416 --> 01:06:20,099
you know, played all of Michael's music,

1187
01:06:20,099 --> 01:06:22,733
danced like him, did all of his moves, um,

1188
01:06:22,733 --> 01:06:24,816
and that his apartment was almost sort of

1189
01:06:24,816 --> 01:06:26,699
a shrine to Michael,

1190
01:06:26,699 --> 01:06:29,666
that there was a lot of different like fan memorabilia.

1191
01:06:30,266 --> 01:06:48,900
(haunting music)

1192
01:06:49,333 --> 01:06:51,983
It doesn't surprise me that people are scared to come out.

1193
01:06:51,983 --> 01:06:56,266
because um, you know, I have some flexibility I work for myself.

1194
01:06:56,266 --> 01:06:58,666
If I were in a corporate job, I might be scared too

1195
01:06:58,666 --> 01:07:01,666
because we don't really know the-

1196
01:07:01,666 --> 01:07:03,533
we don't really know who the powers that be are

1197
01:07:03,533 --> 01:07:06,983
behind 'Leaving Neverland', and, you know,

1198
01:07:06,983 --> 01:07:09,733
to speak out at this point,

1199
01:07:09,733 --> 01:07:11,933
might be cause a conflict of interest for somebody

1200
01:07:11,933 --> 01:07:14,466
if they're working with a big corporation, you know?

1201
01:07:14,466 --> 01:07:16,466
It could have really harmed their career, so I'm

1202
01:07:16,466 --> 01:07:18,666
not surprised that people would be afraid to come out.

1203
01:07:19,099 --> 01:07:26,300
(somber music)

1204
01:07:26,866 --> 01:07:28,099
CHARLES: So after the settlement,

1205
01:07:28,099 --> 01:07:30,300
Michael is married to Lisa Marie Presley and

1206
01:07:30,300 --> 01:07:32,383
goes to work on an album called 'HIStory'.

1207
01:07:32,783 --> 01:07:33,816
REPORTER: At a warehouse in London,

1208
01:07:33,816 --> 01:07:35,933
staff listened to the long-awaited new songs today

1209
01:07:35,933 --> 01:07:39,099
as they wrapped them ready to go on sale tomorrow.

1210
01:07:39,099 --> 01:07:42,183
The album called 'HIStory' contains 15 old hits

1211
01:07:42,183 --> 01:07:44,066
and 15 new songs.

1212
01:07:44,066 --> 01:07:45,733
CHARLES: Much of the content of the 'HIStory' album

1213
01:07:45,733 --> 01:07:50,333
you could argue, of course, all art is subject to interpretation

1214
01:07:50,333 --> 01:07:54,933
but it seems to be quite clearly influenced by what has happened to him

1215
01:07:54,933 --> 01:07:56,933
during the Jordan Chandler legal situation.

1216
01:07:57,516 --> 01:08:26,149
[Michael Jackson - Money]

1217
01:08:26,149 --> 01:08:36,250
[Michael Jackson - Tabloid Junkie]

1218
01:08:36,250 --> 01:08:39,100
CHARLES: And also, once married to Lisa Marie Presley

1219
01:08:39,100 --> 01:08:40,899
and about to release the album,

1220
01:08:40,899 --> 01:08:43,500
he appears on PrimeTime with Diane Sawyer

1221
01:08:43,500 --> 01:08:46,699
along with Lisa Marie Presley and does an interview,

1222
01:08:46,699 --> 01:08:48,383
and during that interview,

1223
01:08:48,383 --> 01:08:51,566
although he does not discuss any specifics of the Jordan Chandler case,

1224
01:08:51,566 --> 01:08:54,550
He does say that he's innocent

1225
01:08:54,550 --> 01:08:57,250
and that there's no evidence to connect him to any crime.

1226
01:08:57,250 --> 01:09:00,016
MICHAEL: The police photographs, that they took of me?

1227
01:09:00,016 --> 01:09:01,866
There was nothing that matched me to those charges.

1228
01:09:01,866 --> 01:09:05,583
- There was nothing that concurred.
- That's why I'm sitting here talking to you today.

1229
01:09:05,583 --> 01:09:08,983
- There was nothing.
- There was not one iota of information

1230
01:09:08,983 --> 01:09:12,216
that was found that could connect me to these charges
- So when we heard..

1231
01:09:12,216 --> 01:09:13,416
-Nothing!

1232
01:09:13,583 --> 01:09:15,316
CHARLES: Now, the combination of the album

1233
01:09:15,316 --> 01:09:19,199
and the Diane Sawyer interview sends Evan Chandler into a rage,

1234
01:09:19,199 --> 01:09:23,000
and he claims that Michael Jackson has breached the non-disclosure part

1235
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:26,466
of the settlement agreement, and so he files a lawsuit

1236
01:09:26,466 --> 01:09:29,000
and the remedy that he's seeking is that he wants

1237
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:33,550
$60 million in damages and he also wants the court's permission

1238
01:09:33,550 --> 01:09:36,666
to also breach the non-disclosure agreement

1239
01:09:36,666 --> 01:09:42,033
and to release his own album called 'EVANStory'.

1240
01:09:42,033 --> 01:09:45,199
So he basically went to court and tried to get a court order

1241
01:09:45,199 --> 01:09:51,000
allowing him to release a rebuttal album on top of seeking $60 million.

1242
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:54,033
That case rumbled on and on for about 6 years

1243
01:09:54,033 --> 01:09:55,316
and eventually was tossed out of court,

1244
01:09:55,316 --> 01:09:57,833
and he didn't get anything he was asking for.

1245
01:09:57,983 --> 01:10:04,050
(somber music)

1246
01:10:04,050 --> 01:10:07,050
JOSEPHINE: You know in- in just discussions, ah,

1247
01:10:07,050 --> 01:10:08,583
You know, we were college students, you know, we

1248
01:10:08,583 --> 01:10:10,633
would have our- our discussions about our parents and

1249
01:10:10,633 --> 01:10:12,850
venting and that sort of thing.

1250
01:10:12,850 --> 01:10:16,266
He said that he felt very used by his parents

1251
01:10:16,266 --> 01:10:17,949
and that he wasn't close to them.

1252
01:10:17,949 --> 01:10:20,166
He never mentioned siblings either

1253
01:10:20,166 --> 01:10:23,083
so I don't know what was going on there, but um,

1254
01:10:23,083 --> 01:10:25,716
He did say multiple times that he was not close

1255
01:10:25,716 --> 01:10:28,683
to his family and that he felt that he was used by them.

1256
01:10:28,933 --> 01:10:36,016
(soft somber music)

1257
01:10:36,016 --> 01:10:37,383
REPORTER: I'm sure most of you are aware

1258
01:10:37,383 --> 01:10:40,583
of the recent television special that claimed

1259
01:10:40,583 --> 01:10:44,100
to give an honest, candid, and revealing look into the

1260
01:10:44,100 --> 01:10:46,333
private life of one of the world's most successful

1261
01:10:46,333 --> 01:10:49,066
and controversial celebrities, Michael Jackson.

1262
01:10:49,066 --> 01:10:51,333
The revelations were explosive.

1263
01:10:51,333 --> 01:10:53,133
The ratings were enormous.

1264
01:10:53,133 --> 01:10:56,216
but what TV journalist Martin Bashir presented

1265
01:10:56,216 --> 01:10:59,066
was a twisted and edited construction of scandal

1266
01:10:59,066 --> 01:11:02,133
and innuendo, not a true representation

1267
01:11:02,133 --> 01:11:04,333
of the interviews that actually took place.

1268
01:11:04,333 --> 01:11:05,866
JOSEPHINE: When 'Living with Michael Jackson' was released,

1269
01:11:05,866 --> 01:11:10,066
it reignited the discussion about whether or not

1270
01:11:10,066 --> 01:11:12,066
Michael Jackson was a child molester.

1271
01:11:12,066 --> 01:11:16,616
The film featured a close-up of Michael holding hands with Gavin Arvizo

1272
01:11:16,616 --> 01:11:22,899
who was a cancer victim, who then went on to be the accuser in the 2005 trial.

1273
01:11:22,899 --> 01:11:25,866
And because um, of that shot and, you know,

1274
01:11:25,866 --> 01:11:28,533
the ratings behind 'Living with Michael Jackson',

1275
01:11:28,533 --> 01:11:32,133
it was a huge topic of conversation in every area of my life

1276
01:11:32,133 --> 01:11:35,333
particularly in my program meetings.

1277
01:11:35,333 --> 01:11:38,866
Immediately after the Martin Bashir documentary aired,

1278
01:11:38,866 --> 01:11:42,616
we had a program meeting and there was a discussion about, you know,

1279
01:11:42,616 --> 01:11:45,333
whether or not Michael Jackson was a child molester. People were calling him "freak".

1280
01:11:45,333 --> 01:11:49,333
These were people who did not have any fondness for Michael Jackson and

1281
01:11:49,333 --> 01:11:51,783
I chimed in with my belief that I didn't believe

1282
01:11:51,783 --> 01:11:54,016
that Michael Jackson was a child molester

1283
01:11:54,016 --> 01:11:57,533
and that the documentary was, um, you know,

1284
01:11:57,533 --> 01:12:00,983
misleading and exploited him.

1285
01:12:00,983 --> 01:12:02,616
During that conversation,

1286
01:12:02,616 --> 01:12:05,416
Jordan Chandler chimed in and said that he too

1287
01:12:05,416 --> 01:12:07,666
believed that Michael Jackson wasn't capable

1288
01:12:07,666 --> 01:12:09,333
of the things he was being accused of.

1289
01:12:09,333 --> 01:12:10,933
And he said that voluntarily,

1290
01:12:10,933 --> 01:12:12,616
and he said it without my prompting,

1291
01:12:12,616 --> 01:12:13,533
and he wasn't asked.

1292
01:12:14,533 --> 01:12:18,800
(somber music)

1293
01:12:19,050 --> 01:12:20,883
He wasn't in the direct conversation no,

1294
01:12:20,883 --> 01:12:22,933
I mean I was arguing with a group of maybe

1295
01:12:22,933 --> 01:12:26,733
3 other people, um, and he- he was seated close to us

1296
01:12:26,733 --> 01:12:28,966
but he wasn't in on this discussion

1297
01:12:28,966 --> 01:12:32,083
and you know throughout the semester,

1298
01:12:32,083 --> 01:12:34,016
there were different occasions like that

1299
01:12:34,016 --> 01:12:36,016
where he would again sort of

1300
01:12:36,016 --> 01:12:39,133
reaffirm things that I said in defense of Michael Jackson

1301
01:12:39,133 --> 01:12:41,766
and I remember that very first time, um,

1302
01:12:41,766 --> 01:12:43,649
I remember catching his eye.

1303
01:12:43,649 --> 01:12:45,533
It was shocking that he would speak up!

1304
01:12:45,533 --> 01:12:49,816
And it really affirmed my belief that Michael was innocent and

1305
01:12:49,816 --> 01:12:52,416
you know given things that Jordan had said separately

1306
01:12:52,416 --> 01:12:53,883
having nothing to do with Michael Jackson

1307
01:12:53,883 --> 01:12:55,483
about his home life, you know,

1308
01:12:55,483 --> 01:12:57,216
It affirmed my belief that

1309
01:12:57,216 --> 01:12:59,166
he was a victim of his parents' greed

1310
01:12:59,166 --> 01:13:01,283
and that he was forced to say certain things

1311
01:13:01,283 --> 01:13:03,283
because I really have a hard time believing

1312
01:13:03,283 --> 01:13:05,083
that if he had been molested by Michael Jackson,

1313
01:13:05,083 --> 01:13:07,216
he would be going out of his way to say that

1314
01:13:07,216 --> 01:13:09,533
he didn't think he was capable of these things.

1315
01:13:09,533 --> 01:13:11,616
and I didn't address it with him. I mean I was

1316
01:13:11,616 --> 01:13:16,016
One, I was very young and Two, I didn't really know

1317
01:13:16,016 --> 01:13:18,483
how important it would have been to address it then.

1318
01:13:18,483 --> 01:13:21,016
These conversations all happened before Gavin Arvizo

1319
01:13:21,016 --> 01:13:22,816
made any allegations against Michael Jackson.

1320
01:13:23,133 --> 01:13:35,850
(melancholic somber music)

1321
01:13:36,850 --> 01:13:39,616
Certainly, when I made the documentary,

1322
01:13:39,616 --> 01:13:42,250
there was a small part of that which contained a

1323
01:13:42,250 --> 01:13:47,216
controversy concerning his relationship with other young people.

1324
01:13:47,216 --> 01:13:50,850
But the truth is that he was never convicted of any crime.

1325
01:13:50,850 --> 01:13:53,449
I never saw any wrongdoing myself.

1326
01:13:53,449 --> 01:13:56,016
and whilst his lifestyle may have been a bit unorthodox,

1327
01:13:56,016 --> 01:13:57,566
I don't believe it was criminal.

1328
01:13:58,333 --> 01:14:01,566
Wait! Wait, you know they- Bashir- Hey!

1329
01:14:01,566 --> 01:14:03,566
You know how Bashir zoomed in on- on

1330
01:14:03,566 --> 01:14:06,616
on him holding hands? Do that the same thing!

1331
01:14:06,616 --> 01:14:10,766
- It's cuz you know how a-
- Because that's what a mother does it with her son.

1332
01:14:10,766 --> 01:14:14,366
-Like you know how a father does?
-or a father does with his son, you know?

1333
01:14:14,366 --> 01:14:17,250
And they tried to make it out to seem- be something

1334
01:14:17,250 --> 01:14:18,766
"wrong" and "dirty"?

1335
01:14:21,649 --> 01:14:24,366
FREEMAN: Her son with ill with cancer

1336
01:14:24,366 --> 01:14:25,616
and they were losing their house

1337
01:14:25,616 --> 01:14:26,850
and they were losing their car

1338
01:14:26,850 --> 01:14:29,250
because of the medical expenses.

1339
01:14:29,250 --> 01:14:31,250
She said, "You know what?

1340
01:14:31,250 --> 01:14:33,366
We didn't make enough money from the first story.

1341
01:14:33,366 --> 01:14:35,300
Will you run another story?"

1342
01:14:36,166 --> 01:14:37,533
REPORTER: The mother's phone call promoted the

1343
01:14:37,533 --> 01:14:40,449
reporter to carry out more research on the family.

1344
01:14:40,449 --> 01:14:44,250
She was stunned and shaken to learn that the family was insured,

1345
01:14:44,250 --> 01:14:47,533
and their medical expenses had been covered all along.

1346
01:14:48,533 --> 01:14:50,216
-It gives me goosebumps. It does-

1347
01:14:50,216 --> 01:14:55,933
It does! That a mother would use her son- to-

1348
01:14:55,933 --> 01:14:59,966
to use her son's illness- for their own gain.

1349
01:15:00,449 --> 01:15:05,566
(somber music)

1350
01:15:05,899 --> 01:15:07,783
CASCIO: Gavin came to Michael and said,

1351
01:15:07,783 --> 01:15:11,383
"Michael could we sleep in your room tonight?"

1352
01:15:11,383 --> 01:15:12,533
and Michael-

1353
01:15:12,533 --> 01:15:15,733
Michael looked at me and says, "I don't know, you know,

1354
01:15:15,733 --> 01:15:17,983
I think you better ask your mother."

1355
01:15:17,983 --> 01:15:19,649
"Oh, we already asked our mother!

1356
01:15:19,649 --> 01:15:22,216
She says, 'sure no problem'!"

1357
01:15:22,216 --> 01:15:25,850
Like, no, this is- something's odd, this is not right.

1358
01:15:25,850 --> 01:15:28,649
and then as I was about to go tell Gavin

1359
01:15:28,649 --> 01:15:31,383
that he cannot sleep in Michael's room,

1360
01:15:31,383 --> 01:15:34,850
Michael says, "Okay, I have a solution for this:

1361
01:15:34,850 --> 01:15:38,050
You have to sleep in the room with me."

1362
01:15:38,050 --> 01:15:40,383
The two children slept on the bed

1363
01:15:40,383 --> 01:15:42,100
and Michael and I slept on the floor.

1364
01:15:42,816 --> 01:15:51,300
(melancholic piano music)

1365
01:15:51,550 --> 01:15:52,550
Filed formal charges

1366
01:15:52,550 --> 01:15:55,500
of felony criminal complaint against Mr. Jackson.

1367
01:15:55,500 --> 01:16:00,300
The, uh, felony complaint involves 9 counts, uh,

1368
01:16:00,300 --> 01:16:05,416
7 counts of 288A in violation of California Penal Code,

1369
01:16:05,416 --> 01:16:08,016
commonly known as child molestation.

1370
01:16:11,633 --> 01:16:13,550
REPORTER: Thursday, jurors listened as the teen

1371
01:16:13,550 --> 01:16:16,183
contradicted his brother and sisters testimony

1372
01:16:16,183 --> 01:16:17,866
and couldn't recall key details

1373
01:16:17,866 --> 01:16:19,750
of the molestation allegations.

1374
01:16:20,033 --> 01:16:23,066
REPORTER: The defense pointed out that in an early police interview,

1375
01:16:23,066 --> 01:16:27,583
the young accuser said his grandmother had told him about a certain type of sexual act,

1376
01:16:27,583 --> 01:16:31,116
even though he had testified that Jackson had told him about it.

1377
01:16:31,516 --> 01:16:32,466
This young man,

1378
01:16:32,466 --> 01:16:36,316
in a moment of high emotion with this former Dean,

1379
01:16:36,316 --> 01:16:37,666
looks the Dean in the eye and says,

1380
01:16:37,666 --> 01:16:39,716
"No, Michael Jackson didn't molest me".

1381
01:16:40,066 --> 01:16:45,266
(melancholic somber music)

1382
01:16:45,750 --> 01:16:50,516
I was on the witness list for the trial in 2005

1383
01:16:50,516 --> 01:16:54,066
because I spent the entire day with Gavin Arvizo

1384
01:16:54,066 --> 01:16:59,233
at Neverland on February 19, 2003.

1385
01:16:59,233 --> 01:17:02,949
This was the very same day that Gavin and his mother,

1386
01:17:02,949 --> 01:17:07,733
Janet, accused Michael of inappropriate behavior.

1387
01:17:07,733 --> 01:17:10,766
The day that they accused Michael of wrongdoing

1388
01:17:10,766 --> 01:17:13,899
was a day that Gavin didn't even see Michael.

1389
01:17:13,899 --> 01:17:15,733
Instead? He was with us.

1390
01:17:16,050 --> 01:17:18,733
-In 2005 during the trial,

1391
01:17:18,733 --> 01:17:20,533
you were on the witness list.

1392
01:17:20,533 --> 01:17:24,166
-Yeah! We were on the witness list because when

1393
01:17:24,166 --> 01:17:26,800
we stayed at Neverland March 9th and 10th,

1394
01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:29,733
Gavin Arvizo and his brother and sister were with us

1395
01:17:29,733 --> 01:17:32,933
and the reason why it was so important- the dates

1396
01:17:32,933 --> 01:17:35,766
is because Michael was supposedly abusing him

1397
01:17:35,766 --> 01:17:38,483
until March 12th, and we were there March 9th and 10th

1398
01:17:38,483 --> 01:17:40,733
- Right, so when you were there.
- and that was not happening.

1399
01:17:40,733 --> 01:17:43,000
I don't know where prosecutors go from here

1400
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:44,649
I don't know whether they can prevail

1401
01:17:44,649 --> 01:17:47,800
and get the convictions that they want against Michael Jackson.

1402
01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:51,000
Their main witness, the accuser, the alleged victim in the case,

1403
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:54,966
the one witness that the jury has to believe for prosecutors to win

1404
01:17:54,966 --> 01:17:58,133
just wasn't that believable, and now, prosecutors are stuck.

1405
01:17:58,133 --> 01:18:00,000
The most dramatic part of their case,

1406
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:02,083
the highest point of their case has already passed and

1407
01:18:02,083 --> 01:18:04,250
they really haven't sold the jury and

1408
01:18:04,250 --> 01:18:06,133
it's not going to get any better for them from here.

1409
01:18:06,133 --> 01:18:08,966
-The '93 case, if they'd been able to try the '93 case,

1410
01:18:08,966 --> 01:18:10,883
I think Michael Jackson would be in a lot more trouble than he is here.

1411
01:18:10,883 --> 01:18:12,199
-We know that he molested other children.

1412
01:18:12,199 --> 01:18:15,649
-Oh yeah, He only paid them $25 million out of the goodness of his heart!

1413
01:18:15,649 --> 01:18:18,133
A pivotal day in the Michael Jackson trial:

1414
01:18:18,133 --> 01:18:20,533
the judge in this case is set to make a ruling today

1415
01:18:20,533 --> 01:18:23,933
if prosecutors can bring up previous child molestation

1416
01:18:23,933 --> 01:18:26,850
allegations against Michael Jackson.

1417
01:18:26,850 --> 01:18:31,050
One court observer calls these allegations the prosecution's "nuclear bomb".

1418
01:18:31,050 --> 01:18:34,050
It is official. The ruling that could make or break the case

1419
01:18:34,050 --> 01:18:36,600
against Michael Jackson has been handed down.

1420
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:41,883
Jurors will hear about prior allegations of abuse by Michael Jackson.

1421
01:18:41,883 --> 01:18:43,449
The trial here will have mini-trial

1422
01:18:43,449 --> 01:18:45,933
after mini-trial as to other offenses.

1423
01:18:45,933 --> 01:18:49,199
It'll be significantly longer but it's significantly different

1424
01:18:49,199 --> 01:18:50,800
than what we had last week

1425
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:53,733
or in the beginning of this trial up until last Friday.

1426
01:18:53,733 --> 01:18:56,083
This is now a trial about pattern evidence,

1427
01:18:56,083 --> 01:18:57,333
about propensity,

1428
01:18:57,333 --> 01:18:59,566
and once a pedophile, always a pedophile.

1429
01:19:00,449 --> 01:19:11,649
(somber music)

1430
01:19:11,899 --> 01:19:13,050
Alright, Ron?

1431
01:19:13,050 --> 01:19:13,933
I told you this was going to be admitted

1432
01:19:13,933 --> 01:19:16,100
and you kept telling me it's not going to be.

1433
01:19:17,449 --> 01:19:19,766
-Well Dan, I was still waiting for um

1434
01:19:19,766 --> 01:19:22,250
some accuser to want to testify in this case

1435
01:19:22,250 --> 01:19:24,100
and still, we're not getting any.

1436
01:19:24,100 --> 01:19:24,816
I think the prosecution-

1437
01:19:24,816 --> 01:19:25,699
[Dan] You're getting one of them!

1438
01:19:25,699 --> 01:19:27,133
[Ron] Well let me respond to that-

1439
01:19:27,133 --> 01:19:29,816
that kid was interviewed by Lauren Weiss,

1440
01:19:29,816 --> 01:19:31,533
who was a District Attorney in Los Angeles,

1441
01:19:31,533 --> 01:19:33,133
now a Superior Court Judge,

1442
01:19:33,133 --> 01:19:35,016
and she didn't think a crime had been committed,

1443
01:19:35,016 --> 01:19:37,250
and neither did the Santa Barbara Sherrifs

1444
01:19:37,250 --> 01:19:38,566
when they interviewed him, and, and

1445
01:19:38,566 --> 01:19:41,416
and nobody filed any charges at that time and

1446
01:19:41,416 --> 01:19:43,166
I think that it's going to be very suspect-

1447
01:19:43,166 --> 01:19:45,733
15 years after the fact coming into court.

1448
01:19:45,733 --> 01:19:47,766
He seemed like a sweet kid at first

1449
01:19:47,766 --> 01:19:51,616
but then after listening to some of his statements,

1450
01:19:51,616 --> 01:19:53,300
he contradicted himself.

1451
01:19:53,333 --> 01:19:58,533
The prosecutor stated before he testified that this would be the first time

1452
01:19:58,533 --> 01:20:00,899
that he had told the "story".

1453
01:20:00,899 --> 01:20:03,250
His credibility was like- it was horrible.

1454
01:20:03,250 --> 01:20:04,933
...who testified

1455
01:20:04,933 --> 01:20:06,850
who said that Michael Jackson had been

1456
01:20:06,850 --> 01:20:09,300
playing with him and had gone too far and touched his

1457
01:20:09,300 --> 01:20:13,133
testicles, and he needed 5 years of therapy after it, and

1458
01:20:13,133 --> 01:20:15,766
during the first therapy session, the DA was present,

1459
01:20:15,766 --> 01:20:18,133
and he also admitted that he wanted money from him,

1460
01:20:18,133 --> 01:20:19,766
and his mother wanted money from Jackson, and

1461
01:20:19,766 --> 01:20:22,766
his mother went to a tabloid and sold a story as well

1462
01:20:22,766 --> 01:20:24,649
So you put all of that together,

1463
01:20:24,649 --> 01:20:26,616
and I submit that it helped us.

1464
01:20:29,583 --> 01:20:38,983
(somber music)

1465
01:20:39,899 --> 01:20:42,066
I, at that point, was

1466
01:20:42,066 --> 01:20:45,266
transferring out of the music business program

1467
01:20:45,266 --> 01:20:46,866
and into the school of individualized study

1468
01:20:46,866 --> 01:20:49,100
So I no longer had classes with Jordan,

1469
01:20:49,100 --> 01:20:52,416
and I I believe I wrote him an email

1470
01:20:52,416 --> 01:20:54,266
I'm not 100% sure that I sent it.

1471
01:20:54,266 --> 01:20:57,133
But if I did send it, I didn't get a response.

1472
01:20:57,133 --> 01:21:02,216
I was approached initially very shortly after the Neverland raid

1473
01:21:02,216 --> 01:21:05,933
by people who worked for the Jackson family

1474
01:21:05,933 --> 01:21:09,466
who knew of me because of message boards and

1475
01:21:09,466 --> 01:21:12,066
I was asked if I would give a statement, and I did,

1476
01:21:12,066 --> 01:21:14,933
and I subsequently ended up on the witness list, yes.

1477
01:21:14,933 --> 01:21:17,066
I mean there were certain members

1478
01:21:17,066 --> 01:21:19,466
of the Jackson entourage, I should say,

1479
01:21:19,466 --> 01:21:22,066
who wanted me to do a little bit of a media tour, which

1480
01:21:22,066 --> 01:21:23,866
I didn't feel comfortable doing, you know?

1481
01:21:23,866 --> 01:21:27,666
During that time, I was approached by Stacy Brown,

1482
01:21:27,666 --> 01:21:29,866
who is known by Jackson fans as somebody who

1483
01:21:29,866 --> 01:21:32,133
used to be very supportive of Michael Jackson

1484
01:21:32,133 --> 01:21:33,666
and was very good friends with Rebbie Jackson

1485
01:21:33,666 --> 01:21:37,183
who then flipped and became an

1486
01:21:37,183 --> 01:21:40,066
anti-Michael Jackson force in the tabloids,

1487
01:21:40,066 --> 01:21:42,533
but during our conversations when he would call me,

1488
01:21:42,533 --> 01:21:45,933
he was a very effusive in his praise of Michael and

1489
01:21:45,933 --> 01:21:49,266
he would urge me to sort of, I would say,

1490
01:21:49,266 --> 01:21:51,733
plump up my Jordan Chandler story,

1491
01:21:51,733 --> 01:21:53,466
which I never feel comfortable doing.

1492
01:21:53,466 --> 01:21:57,466
I only would say, you know exactly what I knew for a fact

1493
01:21:57,466 --> 01:21:59,933
But he'd even encouraged me to say that I was Jordan's

1494
01:21:59,933 --> 01:22:02,016
girlfriend or that Jordan had a crush on me or something like that,

1495
01:22:02,016 --> 01:22:06,066
and that was absolutely not true.

1496
01:22:06,066 --> 01:22:09,266
In retrospect, knowing how he turned on Michael, I

1497
01:22:09,266 --> 01:22:12,666
I feel like he did it as like a pre-emptive way to discredit me,

1498
01:22:12,666 --> 01:22:14,733
you know, because if I were to lie about that,

1499
01:22:14,733 --> 01:22:16,266
it would discredit my entire story.

1500
01:22:16,266 --> 01:22:18,266
But I of course was never willing to do that,

1501
01:22:18,266 --> 01:22:19,933
and I take this very seriously.

1502
01:22:19,933 --> 01:22:22,933
I firmly believe in due process and you know,

1503
01:22:22,933 --> 01:22:25,533
it certainly wouldn't have won me any favors

1504
01:22:25,533 --> 01:22:30,266
industrywide to testify in his trial and that's something

1505
01:22:30,266 --> 01:22:32,500
that perhaps I was a little naive about as a kid,

1506
01:22:32,500 --> 01:22:34,333
but now as somebody who's worked in the industry,

1507
01:22:34,333 --> 01:22:35,933
I understand how things work.

1508
01:22:35,933 --> 01:22:38,866
I don't think I understood the enormity at that time.

1509
01:22:38,866 --> 01:22:41,733
All I knew was that this was somebody whose

1510
01:22:41,733 --> 01:22:43,333
life and livelihood was on the line

1511
01:22:43,333 --> 01:22:47,066
and I had information that could potentially help him.

1512
01:22:47,066 --> 01:22:49,533
So I felt it was my obligation in my duty.

1513
01:22:49,533 --> 01:22:55,466
His name wasn't widely known and from my discussions in the program,

1514
01:22:55,466 --> 01:22:57,666
I don't think that there was really anybody else

1515
01:22:57,666 --> 01:23:01,016
other than a very few people who knew who he was, um,

1516
01:23:01,016 --> 01:23:02,699
that they don't even know is relevant.

1517
01:23:02,699 --> 01:23:04,783
No, this doesn't benefit my career at all.

1518
01:23:04,783 --> 01:23:07,899
This doesn't give me access to anything. I'm very much

1519
01:23:07,899 --> 01:23:09,666
somebody who likes to be in the background

1520
01:23:09,666 --> 01:23:12,133
That's why I do PR and publicity.

1521
01:23:12,133 --> 01:23:15,733
I want my clients to be in the spotlight, but I, myself,

1522
01:23:15,733 --> 01:23:19,583
you know, I kind of- would prefer to hide

1523
01:23:19,583 --> 01:23:22,616
but I'm speaking out because you asked me to

1524
01:23:22,616 --> 01:23:25,866
and because all of this nonsense is being rehashed and

1525
01:23:25,866 --> 01:23:29,466
relitigated in the media, and it's ridiculous, you know?

1526
01:23:29,466 --> 01:23:33,266
I understand that people would be skeptical of my story

1527
01:23:33,266 --> 01:23:36,783
because I am a fan and I don't hide that I'm a fan but

1528
01:23:36,783 --> 01:23:38,733
the fact of the matter is

1529
01:23:38,733 --> 01:23:41,866
you know if I had even the slightest doubt

1530
01:23:41,866 --> 01:23:44,533
that Michael Jackson was innocent,

1531
01:23:44,533 --> 01:23:46,533
I wouldn't be speaking out. I heard directly

1532
01:23:46,533 --> 01:23:48,216
from Jordan Chandler that he didn't believe

1533
01:23:48,216 --> 01:23:49,666
that Michael Jackson was capable of the things

1534
01:23:49,666 --> 01:23:51,333
he was being accused of.

1535
01:23:51,333 --> 01:23:53,266
And that's very powerful.

1536
01:23:53,266 --> 01:23:55,133
You know, every allegation since is built

1537
01:23:55,133 --> 01:23:57,666
upon the original 1993 allegation

1538
01:23:57,666 --> 01:24:01,416
and I believe that if that one is false,

1539
01:24:01,416 --> 01:24:03,733
which I do believe it is false,

1540
01:24:03,733 --> 01:24:05,466
all the rest crumble.

1541
01:24:10,683 --> 01:27:50,616
(eerie music)