1 00:00:13,241 --> 00:00:16,071 [white noise] 2 00:00:18,021 --> 00:00:20,071 [soft chatter] 3 00:00:25,231 --> 00:00:27,100 The name of this song is 4 00:00:27,121 --> 00:00:29,021 "When You Know Ti and Do," 5 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,021 by the Class. 6 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,151 [piano plays] 7 00:01:25,201 --> 00:01:28,210 [eerie music overtakes lyrics] 8 00:01:46,070 --> 00:01:49,090 [insects chirping] 9 00:01:55,180 --> 00:01:57,130 SAWYER: While I was in the group, 10 00:01:57,150 --> 00:02:01,100 we were in touch with a bulletin board service. 11 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:04,130 Because of that, we were becoming informed 12 00:02:04,150 --> 00:02:08,071 about what the... UFO community was talking about. 13 00:02:13,041 --> 00:02:15,021 BENJAMIN: In late 1996, 14 00:02:15,041 --> 00:02:19,021 the group began to orient itself towards departure. 15 00:02:19,041 --> 00:02:20,210 And, in particular, 16 00:02:20,231 --> 00:02:22,111 they bought into the conspiracy theory, 17 00:02:22,131 --> 00:02:25,021 in 1997, that the government 18 00:02:25,041 --> 00:02:27,090 was hiding the existence 19 00:02:27,111 --> 00:02:29,220 of a flying saucer 20 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,081 that was trailing the Hale-Bopp comet. 21 00:02:35,220 --> 00:02:38,051 The most important name to think about here is Art Bell. 22 00:02:38,071 --> 00:02:40,141 Art Bell was 23 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,090 a source of conspiratorial thinking, 24 00:02:43,111 --> 00:02:44,250 and you could tune in, 25 00:02:45,030 --> 00:02:46,231 and you could listen to everything from beliefs 26 00:02:47,021 --> 00:02:49,100 about space aliens and UFOs to Bigfoot. 27 00:02:51,041 --> 00:02:53,041 ART: Chuck Shramek in Houston, Texas. 28 00:02:53,060 --> 00:02:55,081 - Chuck, welcome to the program. CHUCK: Thanks, Art. 29 00:02:55,100 --> 00:02:57,030 ART: A lot of people have felt 30 00:02:57,051 --> 00:02:59,071 something's going on with Hale-Bopp. 31 00:02:59,090 --> 00:03:00,180 CHUCK: Well, I have too. 32 00:03:00,201 --> 00:03:03,150 There's been a real lack of pictures 33 00:03:03,171 --> 00:03:06,231 from the Hubble Space Telescope or anything, observatories. 34 00:03:06,250 --> 00:03:08,201 So, that got me all the more curious. 35 00:03:08,220 --> 00:03:10,101 I can smell when they're-- 36 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,150 ART: Why would they do that? 37 00:03:12,171 --> 00:03:13,250 CHUCK: Perhaps they saw something 38 00:03:14,030 --> 00:03:15,201 they felt might disturb people. 39 00:03:15,220 --> 00:03:17,060 ART: You have just taken a photograph. 40 00:03:17,081 --> 00:03:19,081 - [camera snap] - When did you take it? Tonight? 41 00:03:19,100 --> 00:03:21,150 CHUCK: I took it at 6:00 this evening. 42 00:03:21,171 --> 00:03:23,141 ART: Six o'clock, all right. 43 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:25,030 CHUCK: This thing appears to be 44 00:03:25,051 --> 00:03:27,100 several times larger than the Earth. 45 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,191 And my heart starts going fasters. 46 00:03:30,210 --> 00:03:33,041 The next day, Art Bell gets another call. 47 00:03:33,060 --> 00:03:35,231 And this call is from Courtney Brown, 48 00:03:35,250 --> 00:03:37,240 who's part of the Farsight Institute. 49 00:03:38,021 --> 00:03:40,081 He and his students claim 50 00:03:40,100 --> 00:03:42,160 there is a very large object 51 00:03:42,180 --> 00:03:45,120 following Hale-Bopp Comet. 52 00:03:45,141 --> 00:03:48,160 ART: Professor, what the hell is that? 53 00:03:48,180 --> 00:03:50,191 COURTNEY: This object is four times-- 54 00:03:50,210 --> 00:03:54,081 approximately four times the size of the planet Earth, 55 00:03:54,100 --> 00:03:55,231 and it's headed our way. 56 00:03:55,250 --> 00:03:57,100 BENJAMIN: Now, for members of Heaven's Gate, 57 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:58,240 this is important for a couple of reasons. 58 00:03:59,021 --> 00:04:01,180 One is, their idea of the Next Level spaceships 59 00:04:01,201 --> 00:04:04,071 they're gonna go onto are really, really big. 60 00:04:04,090 --> 00:04:05,201 The other is they have been looking 61 00:04:05,220 --> 00:04:08,041 for a sign for the end for quite a while. 62 00:04:08,060 --> 00:04:09,240 The term they use is a marker. 63 00:04:10,021 --> 00:04:11,240 The Hale Bopp Comet had something to do 64 00:04:12,021 --> 00:04:13,090 with the decision to do it now. 65 00:04:13,111 --> 00:04:16,030 Why now? Why not 1999? 66 00:04:16,050 --> 00:04:17,170 Yes, the Hale-Bopp Comet 67 00:04:17,191 --> 00:04:18,251 did have something to do with it 68 00:04:19,030 --> 00:04:20,210 because Ti and Do, from the beginning, 69 00:04:20,230 --> 00:04:23,021 were very tuned in to the significance 70 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,021 of celestial events and their synchronistic... 71 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,061 association with events on Earth. 72 00:04:28,081 --> 00:04:31,040 DO: Within the past 24 hours, 73 00:04:31,061 --> 00:04:33,210 I have been clearly informed 74 00:04:33,230 --> 00:04:35,210 by my older member 75 00:04:35,230 --> 00:04:37,210 of how short the time is. 76 00:04:37,230 --> 00:04:39,170 JANJA LALICH: They believe there was a spaceship 77 00:04:39,191 --> 00:04:41,090 behind the Hale-Bopp Comet 78 00:04:41,111 --> 00:04:44,090 that was Ti coming to get them. 79 00:04:44,111 --> 00:04:46,150 And so they went to town, and they bought a... 80 00:04:46,170 --> 00:04:49,021 very expensive telescope. 81 00:04:51,131 --> 00:04:56,021 [soft chatter, laughter] 82 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,170 SAWYER: Do and the crew, they had a telescope, 83 00:04:58,191 --> 00:05:00,100 and they were watching the heavens, 84 00:05:00,121 --> 00:05:02,090 recording anything they saw 85 00:05:02,110 --> 00:05:05,030 in the heavens that was unusual. 86 00:05:05,050 --> 00:05:06,181 JANJA: And they looked up in the sky, 87 00:05:06,201 --> 00:05:09,100 and they didn't see any bloody spaceship. 88 00:05:09,121 --> 00:05:12,061 So, what did they do? They took the telescope 89 00:05:12,081 --> 00:05:15,220 back to the store and said, "This telescope doesn't work." 90 00:05:15,241 --> 00:05:18,061 MAN: They didn't see 91 00:05:18,081 --> 00:05:20,021 what they thought they were going to see. 92 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:21,230 They said they were looking for the companion. 93 00:05:21,251 --> 00:05:23,131 That's what they told me. 94 00:05:23,150 --> 00:05:25,061 I said, "Companion?" And they said, 95 00:05:25,081 --> 00:05:27,251 "The companion-- the companion of Hale-Bopp." 96 00:05:28,181 --> 00:05:30,021 LARRY KING: Whitley, what do you make 97 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,050 of the connection with Hale-Bopp? 98 00:05:32,071 --> 00:05:34,191 WHITLEY: Well, as you know, there was a lot of controversy 99 00:05:34,210 --> 00:05:36,100 about whether or not there was an object 100 00:05:36,121 --> 00:05:37,191 near the Hale-Bopp Comet. 101 00:05:37,210 --> 00:05:40,220 Myself and another radio host, Art Bell, eventually 102 00:05:40,241 --> 00:05:43,150 discovered this to be a fraud. 103 00:05:43,170 --> 00:05:45,191 SAWYER: Whether there was a companion object 104 00:05:45,210 --> 00:05:48,191 with Hale-Bopp or not was irrelevant. 105 00:05:48,210 --> 00:05:51,230 They recognized that Hale-Bopp was the spacecraft 106 00:05:51,251 --> 00:05:55,170 that they had been talking about coming in the 1970s. 107 00:05:55,191 --> 00:05:59,241 So that just informed them of the timing of their exit. 108 00:06:01,251 --> 00:06:03,191 BENJAMIN: The reason they chose March to exit was 109 00:06:03,210 --> 00:06:05,181 that that's when the comet was closest to Earth. 110 00:06:05,201 --> 00:06:07,210 And that also coincided with Easter. 111 00:06:09,100 --> 00:06:11,150 DO: The Kingdom of Heaven is in our midst. 112 00:06:11,170 --> 00:06:15,030 In other words, the door is open. 113 00:06:17,181 --> 00:06:19,181 If you follow me, you believe in me, 114 00:06:19,201 --> 00:06:21,170 you do exactly as I say, 115 00:06:21,191 --> 00:06:23,061 and you'll get there. 116 00:06:23,081 --> 00:06:25,110 You will not know death. 117 00:06:27,030 --> 00:06:28,201 JANJA: This is, like, 20 years you're waiting 118 00:06:28,220 --> 00:06:30,081 for the ship to come. 119 00:06:30,100 --> 00:06:32,160 If you put yourself in their shoes for a minute, 120 00:06:32,180 --> 00:06:35,071 you can sort of see their sense of relief. 121 00:06:35,090 --> 00:06:38,170 Like, oh, my God, we're finally gonna get out of here. 122 00:06:47,141 --> 00:06:49,241 [music playing] 123 00:06:50,021 --> 00:06:52,040 [distant chatter] 124 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,090 BENJAMIN: Members of Heaven's Gate had 125 00:07:17,110 --> 00:07:18,230 their Christmas party in December, 126 00:07:18,251 --> 00:07:20,150 before the suicides. 127 00:07:22,191 --> 00:07:25,121 [soft chatter] 128 00:07:25,141 --> 00:07:28,181 You see them baking cakes, 39 cakes, right? 129 00:07:34,230 --> 00:07:37,141 A member had left and come back, 130 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,021 and you see them greeting the member 131 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:40,111 and hugging the member. 132 00:07:40,131 --> 00:07:41,180 [laughter] 133 00:07:41,201 --> 00:07:43,150 This is like springtime for you, huh? 134 00:07:43,170 --> 00:07:46,050 [laughing] 135 00:07:46,071 --> 00:07:48,071 Hey, ALXODY! 136 00:07:50,061 --> 00:07:52,071 - You were invited! - [laughter] 137 00:07:53,131 --> 00:07:55,150 ...slowly turned to silence... 138 00:07:55,170 --> 00:07:57,210 BENJAMIN: You see them reading out of books. 139 00:07:57,230 --> 00:08:00,021 Sort of telling a story. It was "Jumanji," actually. 140 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,220 "'Jumanji,' she read on the box. 141 00:08:02,241 --> 00:08:04,201 A jungle adventure game..." 142 00:08:04,220 --> 00:08:06,191 BENJAMIN: You see them doing a talent show. 143 00:08:08,201 --> 00:08:10,191 [applause] 144 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,040 [laughter] 145 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,110 Everything about this group, if you didn't know 146 00:08:21,131 --> 00:08:23,040 there was a suicide three months later, 147 00:08:23,061 --> 00:08:24,181 you wouldn't say, well, this is a group that was 148 00:08:24,201 --> 00:08:26,150 about to end their lives. 149 00:08:26,170 --> 00:08:28,150 [laughter] 150 00:08:30,030 --> 00:08:31,150 [applause] 151 00:08:31,170 --> 00:08:33,190 SAWYER: For the group to lay down their vehicles, 152 00:08:33,211 --> 00:08:35,221 their suits of clothing that they were wearing, 153 00:08:35,241 --> 00:08:37,221 wasn't a big deal to them because they believed 154 00:08:37,241 --> 00:08:39,141 all this... already, 155 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,030 and they not only believed it, 156 00:08:41,050 --> 00:08:44,060 but they-- they had related with Do enough, 157 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,060 and they trusted him a hundred percent. 158 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,200 No, I'm just here for the entertainment. 159 00:08:48,221 --> 00:08:50,231 [laughter] 160 00:08:50,251 --> 00:08:56,021 ♪ Let's start at the very beginning ♪ 161 00:08:56,040 --> 00:09:00,030 ♪ A very good place to start ♪ 162 00:09:00,050 --> 00:09:04,091 ♪ When you sing, you begin with do re mi ♪ 163 00:09:04,111 --> 00:09:09,180 ♪ When it's time, you begin with Do and Ti ♪ 164 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,160 ♪ Ti and Do ♪ 165 00:09:11,180 --> 00:09:15,050 ♪ Do re mi fa so la ti ♪ 166 00:09:15,070 --> 00:09:18,040 [Radiohead, "Everything in Its Right Place"] 167 00:09:20,180 --> 00:09:23,111 They all headed up to Gold Beach, Oregon, 168 00:09:23,131 --> 00:09:26,080 which is where Bonnie and Herff had had their revelation. 169 00:09:29,221 --> 00:09:32,200 REPORTER: In a detailed ledger left behind by the cult, 170 00:09:32,221 --> 00:09:35,131 the weeks leading up to the mass suicide read 171 00:09:35,150 --> 00:09:36,241 like one big vacation. 172 00:09:37,021 --> 00:09:38,060 Trips to SeaWorld, 173 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,241 San Diego's wild animal park. 174 00:09:46,070 --> 00:09:49,170 Mexico, and the Stratosphere Hotel in Las Vegas, 175 00:09:49,190 --> 00:09:51,221 where they gambled and won $20. 176 00:09:53,111 --> 00:09:55,060 BENJAMIN: Suicide was not something that 177 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,060 they decided on a moment's notice 178 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:58,170 they were going to do. 179 00:09:58,190 --> 00:10:02,050 They began the buildup actually in the end of 1996, 180 00:10:02,070 --> 00:10:03,251 in terms of uploading content to their website. 181 00:10:04,030 --> 00:10:06,180 ♪ Everything ♪ 182 00:10:08,030 --> 00:10:12,091 ♪ In its right place ♪ 183 00:10:12,111 --> 00:10:13,231 ♪ In its right place ♪ 184 00:10:13,251 --> 00:10:15,050 BENJAMIN: They feared the government may try 185 00:10:15,070 --> 00:10:17,030 to take down their website, 186 00:10:17,050 --> 00:10:19,080 so they had sent physical floppy disks 187 00:10:19,101 --> 00:10:21,251 around the world with copies of their materials, 188 00:10:22,030 --> 00:10:23,211 so that, in the event the government took down 189 00:10:23,231 --> 00:10:25,141 their American host, it could be hosted 190 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,141 in, I believe, it was Brazil and Poland. 191 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,241 ♪ In its right place ♪ 192 00:10:31,241 --> 00:10:33,141 ♪ In its right place ♪ 193 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,180 BENJAMIN: They also made efforts 194 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,021 to have their intellectual property maintained 195 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,070 by several ex-members with whom they had 196 00:10:40,091 --> 00:10:42,021 a positive and favorable relationship. 197 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,131 ♪ Yesterday, I was... ♪ 198 00:10:44,150 --> 00:10:46,101 BENJAMIN: And they actually thought that all the interest 199 00:10:46,121 --> 00:10:50,101 in Hale-Bopp Comet was an impetus for doing this. 200 00:10:50,121 --> 00:10:54,190 ♪ Sucking a lemon... ♪ 201 00:10:56,121 --> 00:11:01,180 ♪ Everything ♪ 202 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,180 For members of Heaven's Gate and for Do, 203 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,080 this was their chance. 204 00:11:05,101 --> 00:11:07,080 Are you filming this? No. 205 00:11:09,170 --> 00:11:13,101 This is March 19, 1997. 206 00:11:13,121 --> 00:11:15,030 I've been talking to my students 207 00:11:15,050 --> 00:11:17,231 that are sitting in front of me. 208 00:11:17,251 --> 00:11:21,111 And, let me say that our mission here 209 00:11:21,131 --> 00:11:24,101 at this time is about to come to a close 210 00:11:24,121 --> 00:11:25,241 in the next few days. 211 00:11:26,021 --> 00:11:27,231 They were trying to get our attention, 212 00:11:27,251 --> 00:11:30,150 'cause they thought we might follow them, 213 00:11:30,170 --> 00:11:33,170 and we might save our souls, effectively. 214 00:11:37,170 --> 00:11:39,111 BENJAMIN: They created several VHS tapes, 215 00:11:39,131 --> 00:11:42,021 which they sent to some former members. 216 00:11:44,251 --> 00:11:46,150 JASON BARTEL: They planned it out really well. 217 00:11:46,170 --> 00:11:48,180 They were just asking that our information 218 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,040 be distributed after we're gone. 219 00:11:51,060 --> 00:11:52,190 DO: We're gonna begin our interviews today 220 00:11:52,211 --> 00:11:54,211 with SRRODY. 221 00:11:54,231 --> 00:11:57,160 How long have you been in this classroom circumstance? 222 00:11:57,180 --> 00:12:00,241 Since Valentine's Day, 21 years ago. 223 00:12:01,021 --> 00:12:03,080 Yeah, I'll be happy just to get the suit of clothes off 224 00:12:03,101 --> 00:12:07,101 and put on a brand-new fresh set with new vibrations 225 00:12:07,121 --> 00:12:09,190 and-- and be in a new atmosphere. 226 00:12:09,211 --> 00:12:12,040 I just wish people could understand 227 00:12:12,060 --> 00:12:14,251 how... it was instant recognition for me 228 00:12:15,030 --> 00:12:17,040 when I met Ti and Do in Waldport 229 00:12:17,060 --> 00:12:19,160 only 21 years ago, 230 00:12:19,180 --> 00:12:22,150 and-- and there was never a doubt in my mind. 231 00:12:24,091 --> 00:12:27,131 I just wish that people out there could understand 232 00:12:27,150 --> 00:12:30,101 how much we feel and know this is real. 233 00:12:30,121 --> 00:12:31,251 This is not a fantasy. 234 00:12:32,030 --> 00:12:36,091 FRANK LYFORD: She has completely adopted 235 00:12:36,111 --> 00:12:41,221 the mindset as taught to her by her older member. 236 00:12:43,070 --> 00:12:45,160 JANJA: You can see them... 237 00:12:45,180 --> 00:12:48,091 taking on exactly the same... 238 00:12:48,111 --> 00:12:51,211 emotional characteristics as their leader. 239 00:12:51,231 --> 00:12:54,160 When you watch the night before, 240 00:12:54,180 --> 00:12:56,211 they had a meeting with Do, 241 00:12:56,231 --> 00:13:00,101 and whenever he talked about Ti, 242 00:13:00,121 --> 00:13:02,241 he choked up 243 00:13:03,021 --> 00:13:04,200 and got teary 244 00:13:04,221 --> 00:13:07,200 and would have to pause. 245 00:13:07,221 --> 00:13:10,180 This chair represents... 246 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,141 my partner... 247 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,170 who I think I mentioned earlier 248 00:13:15,190 --> 00:13:19,091 was with me physically, had taken a body with me. 249 00:13:19,111 --> 00:13:21,021 And so the next day, 250 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,021 when they're saying their goodbyes 251 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,111 and whenever they would refer to Ti, 252 00:13:25,131 --> 00:13:27,070 that they were going off to see Ti, 253 00:13:27,091 --> 00:13:28,251 they would do the same thing. 254 00:13:29,030 --> 00:13:31,101 They would choke up in exactly the same way. 255 00:13:31,121 --> 00:13:34,101 I wish I had the opportunity to meet Ti, 256 00:13:34,121 --> 00:13:37,021 but I know that I soon will, 257 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,150 very shortly, and I can't wait. 258 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,060 And we've all tried to prove to our older members 259 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,160 that we're worthy of the effort 260 00:13:45,180 --> 00:13:48,190 and the sacrifice they made. [sobbing] 261 00:13:50,070 --> 00:13:53,101 We're very happy and proud 262 00:13:53,121 --> 00:13:57,131 to have been members of Ti and Do's Class 263 00:13:57,150 --> 00:14:02,091 and couldn't be happier about what we're about to do. 264 00:14:04,050 --> 00:14:06,030 [laughter] 265 00:14:06,050 --> 00:14:09,030 To me, that's one example of what we might call brainwashing. 266 00:14:09,050 --> 00:14:10,211 I can hardly wait. 267 00:14:10,231 --> 00:14:12,180 And I'm ready to go. 268 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,231 JANJA: So, if you're sitting there, 269 00:14:14,251 --> 00:14:17,070 and you say, "I'm gonna do this," 270 00:14:17,091 --> 00:14:20,150 and you say it in front of everyone else, 271 00:14:20,170 --> 00:14:22,121 well, you're far less likely then 272 00:14:22,141 --> 00:14:24,150 to say, "Oh, no, I don't wanna do it." 273 00:14:24,170 --> 00:14:26,160 You know, go running out in the street, right? 274 00:14:26,180 --> 00:14:28,170 I feel very honored 275 00:14:28,190 --> 00:14:30,021 and very, very lucky 276 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,231 that I wasn't stuck back in the world 277 00:14:32,251 --> 00:14:35,150 where I chose to... 278 00:14:35,170 --> 00:14:38,091 make the mistake of going for a while. 279 00:14:40,101 --> 00:14:41,241 KELLY COOKE: I think when I first saw it, 280 00:14:42,021 --> 00:14:44,200 I wanted to grab her 281 00:14:44,221 --> 00:14:48,021 through the camera lens. [laughing] 282 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,021 Tell her, "No, you don't have to do this." 283 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:52,160 [chuckling] 284 00:14:58,231 --> 00:15:01,040 This isn't a troubling circumstance. 285 00:15:01,060 --> 00:15:02,241 Don't take it as that. It's just a gateway. 286 00:15:03,021 --> 00:15:04,241 Just a doorway. 287 00:15:05,021 --> 00:15:06,050 DO: Okay, thank you. 288 00:15:06,070 --> 00:15:08,040 This was the last log that was used 289 00:15:08,060 --> 00:15:10,131 when they signed out before the suicides. 290 00:15:11,251 --> 00:15:13,211 And they wrote little comments for their ETR-- 291 00:15:13,231 --> 00:15:15,121 estimated time of return. 292 00:15:15,141 --> 00:15:17,200 And say things like "Bye!" or "Never." 293 00:15:17,221 --> 00:15:21,030 Question mark. "Hasta la vista, baby." 294 00:15:22,241 --> 00:15:26,121 We hope that we took advantage of the time that we had 295 00:15:26,141 --> 00:15:28,121 incarnate in these human vehicles 296 00:15:28,141 --> 00:15:32,170 and will be of better service to The Next Level because of it. 297 00:15:32,190 --> 00:15:34,170 If you want information about us, 298 00:15:34,190 --> 00:15:37,091 and lower forces don't interfere, 299 00:15:37,111 --> 00:15:39,190 you can find it at our site on the internet. 300 00:15:39,211 --> 00:15:43,091 www.heavensgate.com 301 00:15:43,111 --> 00:15:45,241 And one last thing we'd like to say is, 302 00:15:46,021 --> 00:15:48,070 39 to beam up, thank you. 303 00:15:48,091 --> 00:15:50,030 [background laughter] 304 00:15:50,050 --> 00:15:52,050 [solitary clapping] 305 00:16:04,111 --> 00:16:08,070 [eerie pulsing music] 306 00:16:57,121 --> 00:16:59,101 VOICE: Dispatcher 55. 307 00:16:59,121 --> 00:17:00,200 DiANGELO: Hello? VOICE: Hello? 308 00:17:00,221 --> 00:17:03,111 DiANGELO: Yes, I need to report... 309 00:17:03,131 --> 00:17:05,050 an anonymous tip. 310 00:17:05,070 --> 00:17:07,080 This is regarding... [continues] 311 00:17:23,140 --> 00:17:25,100 SAWYER: Rio joined the group, 312 00:17:25,120 --> 00:17:29,040 I think, from California in 1994. 313 00:17:29,060 --> 00:17:30,241 And then he left the group 314 00:17:31,021 --> 00:17:34,080 two weeks before they laid down their lives. 315 00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:36,120 I had a very uneasy feeling-- 316 00:17:36,140 --> 00:17:39,070 a strange feeling-- that I needed to do something 317 00:17:39,090 --> 00:17:40,161 outside of the Class. 318 00:17:40,181 --> 00:17:42,181 And I spoke to Do about it, 319 00:17:42,201 --> 00:17:44,231 and he felt that 320 00:17:44,251 --> 00:17:46,251 it was probably part of the plan. 321 00:17:47,030 --> 00:17:49,120 Some higher plan that we didn't know about. 322 00:17:49,140 --> 00:17:51,110 DAVID: Apparently, he had talked to Do 323 00:17:51,130 --> 00:17:53,030 and asked if he could leave. 324 00:17:53,050 --> 00:17:54,151 That he had a vision, that he should 325 00:17:54,171 --> 00:17:56,050 write about his experiences 326 00:17:56,070 --> 00:17:58,140 and write something about the group. 327 00:17:58,161 --> 00:18:02,211 So, he left within a week before the suicides. 328 00:18:02,231 --> 00:18:05,171 After leaving the group, he got a packet from-- 329 00:18:05,191 --> 00:18:08,050 instructions from Do and others saying, 330 00:18:08,070 --> 00:18:10,130 if you could go to the house and make a recording 331 00:18:10,151 --> 00:18:13,151 of what you see, you'll find us here. 332 00:18:29,171 --> 00:18:32,090 SAWYER: Rio is the one that Do sent 333 00:18:32,110 --> 00:18:35,171 a bunch of information to, with a letter that... 334 00:18:35,191 --> 00:18:38,090 said that they were laying down their lives. 335 00:18:38,110 --> 00:18:40,161 And so he informed the police of that. 336 00:18:40,181 --> 00:18:45,070 That became what's known as the Heaven's Gate suicides. 337 00:18:48,130 --> 00:18:50,181 REPORTER: Police in San Diego County say 338 00:18:50,201 --> 00:18:52,110 they've discovered what appears to be 339 00:18:52,130 --> 00:18:53,251 a mass suicide 340 00:18:54,030 --> 00:18:56,251 at a multi-million dollar mansion in Rancho Santa Fe. 341 00:18:57,030 --> 00:19:00,140 That's about 20 miles north of San Diego. 342 00:19:00,161 --> 00:19:02,110 2nd REPORTER: Rumors are rampant around here. 343 00:19:02,130 --> 00:19:04,120 Unconfirmed rumors that there may be 344 00:19:04,140 --> 00:19:07,140 as many as 30 or 40 people inside that house. 345 00:19:07,161 --> 00:19:09,021 We do know from neighbors though 346 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,211 that a religious group did move in back in the fall, 347 00:19:11,231 --> 00:19:13,231 and that they have been very, very quiet. 348 00:19:13,251 --> 00:19:16,021 I waved over the fence to some people. 349 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:17,211 They never uttered a word. 350 00:19:17,231 --> 00:19:19,221 3rd REPORTER: Around town, the cult next door was 351 00:19:19,241 --> 00:19:22,221 paying its bills in advance, picking up the mail. 352 00:19:22,241 --> 00:19:24,100 Eating a sort of last supper 353 00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:26,021 of turkey pot pie. 354 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:27,181 They all ordered the same drink, 355 00:19:27,201 --> 00:19:30,030 and they all had the same dinner and dessert. 356 00:19:30,050 --> 00:19:33,100 And bidding a cryptic farewell to friends at the car wash. 357 00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:35,151 ALEX: And he said, "Hey, Alex, 358 00:19:35,171 --> 00:19:37,221 we just stopped by to say goodbye." 359 00:19:37,241 --> 00:19:40,201 Um, and he took off his-- his pendant 360 00:19:40,221 --> 00:19:43,100 and handed it to me. 361 00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:44,231 REPORTER: We have just learned from a briefing 362 00:19:44,251 --> 00:19:47,060 by sheriff's deputies that apparently 363 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,070 39 bodies have been found. 364 00:19:49,090 --> 00:19:52,030 All of them apparently male. 365 00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:57,060 I knew they were thinking they were men, all men, 366 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,181 because they all had short hair. 367 00:19:59,201 --> 00:20:02,021 And I knew the females had short hair. 368 00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:07,231 4th REPORTER: Now, the coroner's officials have 369 00:20:07,251 --> 00:20:09,130 stopped in the street; they are talking 370 00:20:09,151 --> 00:20:11,050 to members of the media. 371 00:20:11,070 --> 00:20:12,191 Several dozen of them now gathered 372 00:20:12,211 --> 00:20:14,161 outside the van's door, 373 00:20:14,181 --> 00:20:16,241 trying to get word, any detail at all, 374 00:20:17,021 --> 00:20:18,040 on this story. 375 00:20:18,060 --> 00:20:19,161 Peaceful. 376 00:20:19,181 --> 00:20:21,070 That's the only way I can describe it, peaceful. 377 00:20:21,090 --> 00:20:23,241 We don't know what the cause of death is at this point. 378 00:20:24,021 --> 00:20:25,231 REPORTER: What did the inside of the house look like? 379 00:20:25,251 --> 00:20:27,241 We have-- We have no idea. 380 00:20:28,021 --> 00:20:31,080 FRANK: I heard a news report 381 00:20:31,100 --> 00:20:33,040 on the radio of 382 00:20:33,060 --> 00:20:37,130 "monastic group of men 383 00:20:37,151 --> 00:20:41,201 had been found dead." 384 00:20:41,221 --> 00:20:45,040 Chills went up and down my spine. 385 00:20:45,060 --> 00:20:46,201 I thought, 386 00:20:46,221 --> 00:20:48,221 "They've finally done it." 387 00:20:50,221 --> 00:20:52,120 I knew it was them. 388 00:20:54,100 --> 00:20:56,090 REPORTER: Now, police are saying that 389 00:20:56,110 --> 00:20:59,130 these bodies were found in different rooms of the house. 390 00:20:59,151 --> 00:21:01,120 They were found lying prone, 391 00:21:01,140 --> 00:21:03,080 with their hands at their sides, 392 00:21:03,100 --> 00:21:06,161 and they are saying that there were no signs of trauma. 393 00:21:07,151 --> 00:21:09,130 TOM BROKAW: 21 women, 18 men, 394 00:21:09,151 --> 00:21:11,090 all dressed in similar outfits. 395 00:21:11,110 --> 00:21:12,231 Apparently they all thought 396 00:21:12,251 --> 00:21:15,050 they were headed to Heaven in a spaceship. 397 00:21:15,070 --> 00:21:19,090 CALVIN VINE: This room here was the actual computer room, 398 00:21:19,110 --> 00:21:21,201 and there were two bodies in there. 399 00:21:21,221 --> 00:21:26,040 Back in the far right-hand corner, 400 00:21:26,060 --> 00:21:28,100 there were four bodies back in there. 401 00:21:32,060 --> 00:21:35,021 And they were dressed in black slacks. 402 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,021 Black Nike shoes. 403 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,120 And most of them wore a wedding band 404 00:21:39,140 --> 00:21:42,130 on their left hand. 405 00:21:42,151 --> 00:21:47,060 Most of them had $5.75 in their pockets. 406 00:21:49,241 --> 00:21:51,181 The $5.75 407 00:21:51,201 --> 00:21:54,241 has to do with the old Mark Twain story. 408 00:21:57,191 --> 00:22:00,100 Mark Twain said that $5.75 409 00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:04,130 was the cost to ride the tail of a comet to Heaven. 410 00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:09,050 MAN: The bodies have been dead for varying periods of time. 411 00:22:09,070 --> 00:22:11,100 Some of them look like 24-36 hours. 412 00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:14,181 Others look like three days, three-plus days. 413 00:22:14,201 --> 00:22:17,100 It appears there were... in three groups. 414 00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:20,040 First group went ahead with this plan, 415 00:22:20,060 --> 00:22:22,030 and the second group sort of assisted them, 416 00:22:22,050 --> 00:22:23,231 cleaned up after them, and covered them 417 00:22:23,251 --> 00:22:27,080 with this red cloth after they had died. 418 00:22:27,100 --> 00:22:29,120 And the third team helped the second team. 419 00:22:29,140 --> 00:22:32,030 And then they were finally down to two people 420 00:22:32,050 --> 00:22:34,070 who were not shrouded with these sheets. 421 00:22:34,090 --> 00:22:36,151 We believe they were the last ones. 422 00:22:36,171 --> 00:22:38,151 They did have plastic bags over their heads. 423 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:41,181 CALVIN: Cause of death was 424 00:22:41,201 --> 00:22:44,140 asphyxia by plastic bag, 425 00:22:44,161 --> 00:22:47,231 and contributing factor was the alcohol 426 00:22:47,251 --> 00:22:50,040 and the phenobarbital. 427 00:22:52,130 --> 00:22:55,151 Of interest was that Marshall Applewhite 428 00:22:55,171 --> 00:22:57,080 was not the last one to die. 429 00:22:57,100 --> 00:22:59,120 He was in the second group. 430 00:22:59,140 --> 00:23:03,050 Upstairs was the huge master bedroom, 431 00:23:03,070 --> 00:23:07,040 and he was there alone in the king-sized bed. 432 00:23:17,090 --> 00:23:18,251 TOM BROKAW: For the families of the victims, 433 00:23:19,030 --> 00:23:20,211 news of these suicides, in many cases, 434 00:23:20,231 --> 00:23:22,161 that was the first they had heard 435 00:23:22,181 --> 00:23:24,140 of their relatives in years. 436 00:23:24,161 --> 00:23:26,161 It was part of a Heaven's Gate credo. 437 00:23:26,181 --> 00:23:29,090 No contact with outside family members. 438 00:23:29,110 --> 00:23:31,060 When you heard about what happened 439 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,191 north of San Diego, did you know immediately? 440 00:23:33,211 --> 00:23:36,130 No, I didn't, umm, a friend of mine called me at work 441 00:23:36,151 --> 00:23:37,251 and started telling me, "You're not gonna believe 442 00:23:38,030 --> 00:23:39,201 what I'm seeing on TV." 443 00:23:39,221 --> 00:23:41,211 And she mentioned the term "Father Do," 444 00:23:41,231 --> 00:23:43,211 and she mentioned the UFO and... 445 00:23:43,231 --> 00:23:45,241 - with the Hale-Bopp Comet. - Then you knew. 446 00:23:46,021 --> 00:23:47,181 And then I went, "Oh, man," so I started 447 00:23:47,201 --> 00:23:49,090 making some phone calls, and I found out 448 00:23:49,110 --> 00:23:52,090 they'd shown my mom's picture and Herff's picture. 449 00:23:52,110 --> 00:23:55,040 - Sad. - It is, it really is. 450 00:23:55,060 --> 00:23:57,130 TERRIE: My mom was such a special lady, 451 00:23:57,151 --> 00:23:59,231 and she had such a genuine heart 452 00:23:59,251 --> 00:24:02,090 and so much compassion for people. 453 00:24:03,191 --> 00:24:05,251 And she would've never taken the group 454 00:24:06,030 --> 00:24:07,241 to the conclusion that it came to. 455 00:24:10,070 --> 00:24:13,161 Do was so caught up in his own head 456 00:24:13,181 --> 00:24:16,090 and his own narcissistic beliefs. 457 00:24:16,110 --> 00:24:18,251 I know that the former members don't feel that way. 458 00:24:19,030 --> 00:24:23,050 And I try really hard to honor what they believe. 459 00:24:23,070 --> 00:24:25,140 Uh, and-- but my own belief 460 00:24:25,161 --> 00:24:28,100 is that they might all still be with us, 461 00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:31,090 had Do gotten the mental assistance he needed. 462 00:24:33,201 --> 00:24:38,151 The moment I was dreading most of my life... 463 00:24:38,171 --> 00:24:40,241 had finally happened. 464 00:24:42,201 --> 00:24:44,181 DO: SLVODY was also out of the classroom 465 00:24:44,201 --> 00:24:48,120 for a while, and she knew that this was where her life was. 466 00:24:48,140 --> 00:24:51,060 Then she came back to life when she had an opportunity 467 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,021 to return to the classroom. 468 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,211 ROBERT: Leaves an awful big hole in your life. 469 00:24:56,231 --> 00:24:58,140 ALICE: And it's been a big enough hole 470 00:24:58,161 --> 00:25:01,040 for three years, but now that hole is never gonna heal, 471 00:25:01,060 --> 00:25:03,201 because she's... she's gone. 472 00:25:03,221 --> 00:25:05,161 ROBERT: I mean, the kid's supposed to bury the old folks, 473 00:25:05,181 --> 00:25:07,201 not the other way around. 474 00:25:07,221 --> 00:25:10,090 ALICE: Every day, you think about her, you know? 475 00:25:10,110 --> 00:25:13,191 What would she be like at 48? 476 00:25:13,211 --> 00:25:17,060 What we're about to do is certainly nothing to... 477 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,070 think negatively about. 478 00:25:20,090 --> 00:25:22,191 We're all choosing of our own free will 479 00:25:22,211 --> 00:25:26,021 to go to The Next Level with Ti and Do. 480 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,151 REPORTER: In an odd footnote, one of the dead has been 481 00:25:28,171 --> 00:25:31,080 identified as the brother of actress Nichelle Nichols, 482 00:25:31,100 --> 00:25:33,080 the actress who played Lieutenant Uhura, 483 00:25:33,100 --> 00:25:35,110 in the "Star Trek" television series, 484 00:25:35,130 --> 00:25:37,151 much of it set on a spaceship. 485 00:25:37,171 --> 00:25:39,151 NICHELLE NICHOLS: I respect my brother's wishes. 486 00:25:39,171 --> 00:25:42,110 And I respect him as a human being. 487 00:25:42,130 --> 00:25:46,120 I respect him as an intelligent human being. 488 00:25:46,140 --> 00:25:50,100 We all feel very emotional about, um... 489 00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:52,040 the gift that we've been given. 490 00:25:52,060 --> 00:25:54,151 And... 491 00:25:54,171 --> 00:25:57,241 I'm the happiest person in the world. 492 00:25:58,021 --> 00:26:00,110 I think Sawyer is the one 493 00:26:00,130 --> 00:26:02,201 that actually first used this term. 494 00:26:02,221 --> 00:26:05,090 Do always wanted to go out with a splash. 495 00:26:05,110 --> 00:26:07,080 [distant clamor] 496 00:26:07,100 --> 00:26:09,191 And right from the beginning, the whole thing is 497 00:26:09,211 --> 00:26:11,151 they're gonna have this Demonstration 498 00:26:11,171 --> 00:26:13,090 where they're gonna be assassinated 499 00:26:13,110 --> 00:26:15,070 in front of thousands of people, 500 00:26:15,090 --> 00:26:17,060 and this is gonna be worldwide news, 501 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,040 and it's gonna be on TV all around the world 502 00:26:20,060 --> 00:26:24,030 when the spacecraft comes down and picks them up. 503 00:26:24,050 --> 00:26:26,050 As the old saying goes, you know, 504 00:26:26,070 --> 00:26:29,080 the worst death of all is death by obscurity. 505 00:26:29,100 --> 00:26:31,090 So, by killing themselves, 506 00:26:31,110 --> 00:26:34,151 they ensured their immortality in a sense. 507 00:26:39,211 --> 00:26:41,161 BENJAMIN: The public response to Heaven's Gate 508 00:26:41,181 --> 00:26:43,251 was dismissal of these people as idiots, 509 00:26:44,030 --> 00:26:47,171 as brainwashed, as fools, as a joke. 510 00:26:47,191 --> 00:26:49,080 You know who else tried to teach 511 00:26:49,100 --> 00:26:50,251 a bunch of Dumbos to fly? 512 00:26:51,030 --> 00:26:53,130 The leader of the Heaven's Gate religious cult. 513 00:26:53,151 --> 00:26:55,050 [laughter] 514 00:26:55,070 --> 00:26:56,231 Who told his followers that they could all 515 00:26:56,251 --> 00:26:58,201 fly away from Earth on a spaceship 516 00:26:58,221 --> 00:27:00,251 by committing mass suicide. 517 00:27:01,030 --> 00:27:02,090 Whoo! Yay, religion! 518 00:27:02,110 --> 00:27:04,021 Okay, no, no, don't... 519 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:05,251 [cheering] 520 00:27:06,030 --> 00:27:07,181 Ted! Ted! Whoo! 521 00:27:07,201 --> 00:27:10,171 We made it! We made it, whoo! 522 00:27:10,191 --> 00:27:12,021 [cheers] 523 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,100 Tell me, are there any regrets? 524 00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:17,110 Yeah, the castration thing. 525 00:27:18,241 --> 00:27:22,140 I was way off on that one, Ted. 526 00:27:22,161 --> 00:27:25,110 It turns out it had nothing to do with anything. 527 00:27:25,130 --> 00:27:27,151 And in fact, when we got here, 528 00:27:27,171 --> 00:27:31,100 everyone just looked at me like, "Applewhite, you nutball." 529 00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:33,021 Yeah, but he's our nutball. 530 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:34,181 - He's our nutball. - Yeah! 531 00:27:34,201 --> 00:27:37,021 SAWYER: I was scared of going public, 532 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,070 but I felt like I-- I needed to... 533 00:27:39,090 --> 00:27:41,110 I knew that they weren't getting 534 00:27:41,130 --> 00:27:43,140 the most accurate reporting on them. 535 00:27:43,161 --> 00:27:44,251 LARRY KING: Joining us now from Seattle is 536 00:27:45,030 --> 00:27:46,231 Andrew, a member of Heaven's Gate 537 00:27:46,251 --> 00:27:49,221 for 18 years, from 1975 to 1993-- 538 00:27:49,241 --> 00:27:51,151 that's an assumed name, by the way. 539 00:27:51,171 --> 00:27:53,161 In New York is Sawyer, also an assumed name, 540 00:27:53,181 --> 00:27:54,241 and he was a member of Heaven's Gate. 541 00:27:55,021 --> 00:27:56,221 What do you make of this, Sawyer? 542 00:27:56,241 --> 00:27:59,201 Well, see, the group was looking to leave the planet, 543 00:27:59,221 --> 00:28:01,050 and they were gonna do it in any way 544 00:28:01,070 --> 00:28:02,191 that they possibly could. 545 00:28:02,211 --> 00:28:04,251 Okay, so they were thinking, brainstorming constantly 546 00:28:05,030 --> 00:28:07,201 on how that might occur, so that they could then-- 547 00:28:07,221 --> 00:28:09,070 - their souls could then... - I see. 548 00:28:09,090 --> 00:28:10,181 ...move into The Next Level. 549 00:28:10,201 --> 00:28:12,191 If you had stayed a few more years, 550 00:28:12,211 --> 00:28:14,241 would you have killed yourself with them? 551 00:28:16,060 --> 00:28:18,110 I doubt it. I... I mean... 552 00:28:18,130 --> 00:28:19,241 - Sawyer, if... - It was a shock to me. 553 00:28:20,021 --> 00:28:22,191 You left in '94, that's not too long ago. 554 00:28:22,211 --> 00:28:25,130 Would you have killed yourself with them, Sawyer? 555 00:28:25,151 --> 00:28:27,191 Well, surprisingly as it may seem, 556 00:28:27,211 --> 00:28:32,040 I... had-- at the time, I thought I would, yes. 557 00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:36,130 FRANK: The people who covered it, in general, 558 00:28:36,151 --> 00:28:42,120 weren't of a mind to dig deeper with it. 559 00:28:42,140 --> 00:28:45,030 [music] 560 00:28:47,060 --> 00:28:49,100 MAN: This is a failed episode from "Star Trek" 561 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,211 that Gene Roddenberry would put his thumbs down to. 562 00:28:52,231 --> 00:28:54,221 2nd MAN: What we're talking about in this case 563 00:28:54,241 --> 00:28:58,231 is really mental illness disguised as religion. 564 00:28:58,251 --> 00:29:00,241 3rd MAN: I just think it's something we've gotta let people 565 00:29:01,021 --> 00:29:03,171 practice under the First Amendment. 566 00:29:03,191 --> 00:29:05,241 These people were adults, they did this freely, 567 00:29:06,021 --> 00:29:08,120 and from all we can gather, they're now happy. 568 00:29:10,090 --> 00:29:12,080 4th MAN: I think only a fraction of people 569 00:29:12,100 --> 00:29:15,040 would really fall for something so bizarre. 570 00:29:15,060 --> 00:29:18,161 There-- There-- There is an underlying desperation. 571 00:29:19,231 --> 00:29:21,191 MATT LAUER: When you hear the word "cult" used 572 00:29:21,211 --> 00:29:23,251 to describe this group, Will, how do you feel about it? 573 00:29:24,030 --> 00:29:25,130 Just 15 seconds, if you will. 574 00:29:25,151 --> 00:29:28,050 If you look up the definition of cult, 575 00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:30,070 the Republican Party is a cult. 576 00:29:30,090 --> 00:29:31,191 - [Matt laughing] - I mean, you know, 577 00:29:31,211 --> 00:29:33,241 there are so many... 578 00:29:34,021 --> 00:29:36,050 you know, you attach a label to all this, 579 00:29:36,070 --> 00:29:38,050 and you read the labels, 580 00:29:38,070 --> 00:29:40,030 and you don't get behind and look 581 00:29:40,050 --> 00:29:41,241 at what's really going on deep. 582 00:29:42,021 --> 00:29:43,130 We've been compared to Jonestown, 583 00:29:43,151 --> 00:29:44,231 we've been compared to... 584 00:29:44,251 --> 00:29:46,120 MAN: Well, now you're gonna be compared to Jonestown. 585 00:29:46,140 --> 00:29:48,040 And what do you mean, "we"? You're not part of this anymore. 586 00:29:48,060 --> 00:29:49,090 In a sense, I am. 587 00:29:49,110 --> 00:29:52,050 I left, but when you see those people, 588 00:29:52,070 --> 00:29:53,171 you reexperience that. 589 00:29:53,191 --> 00:29:56,110 It will always be with you. This will always be with me. 590 00:29:56,130 --> 00:29:58,090 I don't disclaim it. 591 00:29:58,110 --> 00:29:59,221 STEVE: I got a call from a producer 592 00:29:59,241 --> 00:30:02,100 who had just interviewed Dick Joslyn, 593 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,100 and said, "We think he's gonna kill himself. 594 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:05,251 Can you help him?" 595 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,211 In all of my interventions, 596 00:30:11,231 --> 00:30:15,050 the goal isn't to get the person out 597 00:30:15,070 --> 00:30:17,221 or to force the person to agree with me. 598 00:30:17,241 --> 00:30:21,130 The goal is to empower them to think for themselves. 599 00:30:27,201 --> 00:30:29,060 WOMAN: Is that today's paper? 600 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,030 DICK: No, that's an older... 601 00:30:31,231 --> 00:30:34,060 STEVE: Well, as I've discovered in my work, 602 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,241 the vast number of people who get involved with groups 603 00:30:38,021 --> 00:30:40,021 walk out of them. 604 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:41,191 But just because you physically leave, 605 00:30:41,211 --> 00:30:43,021 doesn't mean the group 606 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:44,191 - gets out of your head. - Right. 607 00:30:44,211 --> 00:30:46,211 I mean, I've been out of the group seven years, 608 00:30:46,231 --> 00:30:50,070 and I'm very aware that I haven't ever processed 609 00:30:50,090 --> 00:30:53,120 anything of it, other than just my own 610 00:30:53,140 --> 00:30:55,030 in-the-middle-of-the-night struggles. 611 00:30:55,050 --> 00:30:57,171 And I'm also aware that I-- I'm just like, 612 00:30:57,191 --> 00:30:59,030 I feel dysfunctional. 613 00:30:59,050 --> 00:31:00,151 - Mm-hmm. - And that's why I'm here, Steve, 614 00:31:00,171 --> 00:31:02,110 that's because there are all these issues 615 00:31:02,130 --> 00:31:05,181 that make me feel like something is... 616 00:31:05,201 --> 00:31:08,140 is keeping me from readjusting, 617 00:31:08,161 --> 00:31:10,191 and being a happy person, and functional in the world. 618 00:31:10,211 --> 00:31:13,080 And I know that I've got stuff to give. 619 00:31:13,100 --> 00:31:14,221 - Mm-hmm. - And that process 620 00:31:14,241 --> 00:31:17,151 of the will emerging. 621 00:31:17,171 --> 00:31:21,211 - Mm-hmm. - And-- and in spite of how... 622 00:31:21,231 --> 00:31:25,030 solidly it's been put down, it still raises up. 623 00:31:25,050 --> 00:31:27,211 It's like a little plant breaking through concrete, 624 00:31:27,231 --> 00:31:31,211 that the power of the... of the individual mind 625 00:31:31,231 --> 00:31:36,080 is saying, I'm sorry, I just can't buy this anymore. 626 00:31:36,100 --> 00:31:40,161 And why did I do that, and why didn't my Classmates, 627 00:31:40,181 --> 00:31:43,231 who were such richly gifted people? 628 00:31:48,140 --> 00:31:49,241 STEVE: You're a very strong person 629 00:31:50,021 --> 00:31:51,120 and you saw through it. 630 00:31:51,140 --> 00:31:53,080 Thank God. 631 00:31:53,100 --> 00:31:56,050 And we're gonna sign off on... 632 00:31:56,070 --> 00:31:59,211 - Bye, see you next time. - ...May 28th, 1997. 633 00:31:59,231 --> 00:32:02,050 See you next time. 634 00:32:09,070 --> 00:32:12,231 My frustration with the media is pretty universal, 635 00:32:12,251 --> 00:32:17,130 that they tend to want sensationalized elements 636 00:32:17,151 --> 00:32:19,140 without getting into the nitty-gritty 637 00:32:19,161 --> 00:32:22,221 of how this can happen to intelligent, educated people 638 00:32:22,241 --> 00:32:25,130 from good homes. 639 00:32:25,151 --> 00:32:29,171 So, it's again, this fundamental attribution error 640 00:32:29,191 --> 00:32:32,120 of, like, "what's-- what's wrong with these people," 641 00:32:32,140 --> 00:32:35,130 instead of saying they were just programmed 642 00:32:35,151 --> 00:32:38,211 and influenced in a systematic way. 643 00:32:41,110 --> 00:32:43,140 Dick Joslyn says that he is aware 644 00:32:43,161 --> 00:32:45,040 of at least a half-dozen members 645 00:32:45,060 --> 00:32:47,090 who plan to do the same thing in the future. 646 00:32:47,110 --> 00:32:49,030 Wow, he said that just today? 647 00:32:49,050 --> 00:32:50,251 Yeah, just-- we just got this on the wire this morning. 648 00:32:51,030 --> 00:32:53,050 Yes, well, that doesn't surprise me, either, 649 00:32:53,070 --> 00:32:55,171 and I wouldn't be surprised if there were more. 650 00:33:05,161 --> 00:33:07,201 When I think of my brother, 651 00:33:07,221 --> 00:33:10,181 I think of him with sad brown eyes. 652 00:33:10,201 --> 00:33:12,171 And although this is in black and white, 653 00:33:12,191 --> 00:33:15,060 this is very typical of him. 654 00:33:17,201 --> 00:33:20,021 I was watching TV one night, 655 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,070 and I saw pictures of the 39 people. 656 00:33:23,090 --> 00:33:28,161 They were showing tennis shoes with purple shrouds over them. 657 00:33:28,181 --> 00:33:31,060 And so, I got a hold of my aunt. 658 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:35,040 You know, I said, did you see the mass suicide today? 659 00:33:35,060 --> 00:33:37,030 And she's like, "Oh yeah, those people are crazy." 660 00:33:37,050 --> 00:33:39,191 And I said, that's the cult Jimmy was in. 661 00:33:43,191 --> 00:33:45,241 Five weeks after the mass suicide, 662 00:33:46,021 --> 00:33:49,110 I got a call from my aunt, and she was crying. 663 00:33:49,130 --> 00:33:51,060 He had sent her a letter saying, 664 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,151 "By the time you get this, I should be dead." 665 00:33:59,110 --> 00:34:03,151 And she sent my cousin's husband over. 666 00:34:03,171 --> 00:34:06,231 And when he knocked on the door, he heard the gun go off. 667 00:34:06,251 --> 00:34:09,031 [gunshot echoing] 668 00:34:13,151 --> 00:34:18,120 He left his farewell, and then he left pictures 669 00:34:18,140 --> 00:34:20,180 that he had cut out of a magazine 670 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,220 of all of his former cult members, 671 00:34:23,240 --> 00:34:26,091 of all of his former Class members. 672 00:34:26,111 --> 00:34:28,151 And he had tagged them underneath 673 00:34:28,171 --> 00:34:30,031 with their ODY names. 674 00:34:34,151 --> 00:34:36,211 And he drew an image 675 00:34:36,231 --> 00:34:39,251 of the 39 of them being lifted up. 676 00:34:46,021 --> 00:34:48,051 LESLIE STAHL: Wayne Cooke, a Heaven's Gate dropout 677 00:34:48,071 --> 00:34:49,120 who still believed, 678 00:34:49,140 --> 00:34:51,120 appeared on "60 Minutes" in March 679 00:34:51,140 --> 00:34:54,200 to explain why his wife and 38 other Classmates 680 00:34:54,220 --> 00:34:56,060 committed suicide. 681 00:34:59,151 --> 00:35:01,051 KELLY COOKE: The only reason I was on "60 Minutes," 682 00:35:01,071 --> 00:35:04,151 is I accompanied my father to these things. 683 00:35:04,171 --> 00:35:07,191 LESLIE: Your mother was one of the 39 684 00:35:07,211 --> 00:35:10,220 who committed suicide with that group. 685 00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:14,091 Now, they think that she's up in a spacecraft. 686 00:35:14,111 --> 00:35:15,200 Do you believe that? 687 00:35:15,220 --> 00:35:18,031 [sighs] This'll be very difficult 688 00:35:18,051 --> 00:35:20,200 for people to understand, but this is something 689 00:35:20,220 --> 00:35:23,120 she worked all of her life to accomplish. 690 00:35:24,211 --> 00:35:26,211 This-- she graduated. 691 00:35:26,231 --> 00:35:28,140 LESLIE: You wish you had gone with them? 692 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:32,021 I wish I had the strength to have remained, 693 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:33,180 to have gained the kind of control 694 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,191 through Do's help, Ti's help, 695 00:35:36,211 --> 00:35:38,180 to have stuck it out 696 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,220 and continued to be a part of that group. 697 00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:42,091 Yes. 698 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,220 KELLY: I was just pleading with him 699 00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:49,220 to live this life with-- with me 700 00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:51,120 in this world, you know? 701 00:35:51,140 --> 00:35:53,211 Not-- Not to abandon it. 702 00:35:53,231 --> 00:35:55,071 [sighs] 703 00:35:56,151 --> 00:35:59,100 He was living in Vegas then, with Chuck. 704 00:36:04,091 --> 00:36:07,180 I just could tell it was gonna happen. 705 00:36:09,140 --> 00:36:11,051 DAVID TAYLOR: After the suicides, 706 00:36:11,071 --> 00:36:12,231 we interviewed Chuck Humphrey, 707 00:36:12,251 --> 00:36:15,060 and he gave me this t-shirt. 708 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:16,231 And true to his own beliefs, 709 00:36:16,251 --> 00:36:21,040 it says, "Heaven's Gate-- what if they're right?" 710 00:36:24,021 --> 00:36:26,140 Hi, my name is RKKODY, 711 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,231 and by the time that you see this tape, 712 00:36:28,251 --> 00:36:31,231 um, I'll be gone. 713 00:36:31,251 --> 00:36:33,071 KELLY: I had been up all night. 714 00:36:33,091 --> 00:36:36,100 Doorbell rang, and it was a FedEx package. 715 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,191 I open it up, and it was a video. 716 00:36:38,211 --> 00:36:40,151 I'm happy. [chuckles] 717 00:36:40,171 --> 00:36:44,231 And I... want very much to follow my Classmates 718 00:36:44,251 --> 00:36:49,111 and... my teachers, Ti and Do. 719 00:36:49,131 --> 00:36:51,031 MAN: It took about three hours 720 00:36:51,051 --> 00:36:52,151 for San Diego County sheriff detectives 721 00:36:52,171 --> 00:36:55,171 to zero in on this Encinitas hotel, 722 00:36:55,191 --> 00:36:58,231 and this particular hotel room, room 222. 723 00:36:58,251 --> 00:37:02,160 This is where two people tried to commit suicide. 724 00:37:02,180 --> 00:37:07,040 I got a call, someone was alive still. 725 00:37:08,151 --> 00:37:10,251 I don't think I've ever experienced 726 00:37:11,031 --> 00:37:14,191 such a confusing emotion to have. 727 00:37:14,211 --> 00:37:16,211 You know, maybe my father's alive. 728 00:37:16,231 --> 00:37:20,040 But is that good? I don't know, you know? 729 00:37:22,091 --> 00:37:24,160 I mean, it went back and forth a couple times, 730 00:37:24,180 --> 00:37:27,180 like being on a rollercoaster for several hours, 731 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,060 no sleep, just insane. 732 00:37:32,051 --> 00:37:34,171 MAN: This is where two people tried to commit suicide. 733 00:37:34,191 --> 00:37:36,131 One of them, former Heaven's Gate member, 734 00:37:36,151 --> 00:37:38,251 55-year-old Wayne Cooke, died here, 735 00:37:39,031 --> 00:37:41,091 and his body was removed late this afternoon. 736 00:37:41,111 --> 00:37:43,240 His partner, 57-year-old Charles Humphrey 737 00:37:44,021 --> 00:37:46,080 was found on the floor, barely alive. 738 00:37:47,151 --> 00:37:50,231 Chuck reflexively pulled the plastic bag, 739 00:37:50,251 --> 00:37:53,120 and the drugs didn't kill him. 740 00:37:54,100 --> 00:37:56,040 JASON: This'll sound morbid, but I felt bad. 741 00:37:56,060 --> 00:37:57,251 I was like, I knew he wanted to go. 742 00:37:58,031 --> 00:38:00,160 And then, he wakes up chained to a hospital bed, 743 00:38:00,180 --> 00:38:01,240 you know, and he's like, "This doesn't look 744 00:38:02,021 --> 00:38:03,191 anything like a spacecraft." 745 00:38:05,180 --> 00:38:07,211 Our objective was to leave the vehicles 746 00:38:07,231 --> 00:38:09,051 and catch up with the Class, 747 00:38:09,071 --> 00:38:10,171 and catch up with our Older Member. 748 00:38:10,191 --> 00:38:14,060 I-- I tried my best to do it at this time, at failed. 749 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,100 Mr. Humphrey, would you ever attempt suicide again? 750 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,071 - I don't know. - You don't know? 751 00:38:18,091 --> 00:38:21,120 I can't answer that question. 752 00:38:21,140 --> 00:38:23,180 JASON: Chuck emailed me, and he's like, 753 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,071 "I'm going out to this spot. 754 00:38:26,111 --> 00:38:28,031 I'll see you upstairs," essentially. 755 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,091 I knew exactly where he was going. 756 00:38:31,111 --> 00:38:33,180 It was a spot we'd camped at. 757 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,140 He knew I was the only person 758 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,220 who-- who wouldn't freak out and try to stop him. 759 00:38:44,091 --> 00:38:46,021 I mean, he was always adamant 760 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,151 that he was 100% supportive of what they did, 761 00:38:48,171 --> 00:38:50,120 and obviously, he tried to follow in their footsteps, 762 00:38:50,140 --> 00:38:51,211 not once, but twice. 763 00:38:51,231 --> 00:38:56,151 In their minds, Ti and Do were the Second Coming, 764 00:38:56,171 --> 00:38:59,100 just different form. 765 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:05,071 So, how do you tell them 766 00:39:05,091 --> 00:39:07,160 that the Second Coming is wrong? [chuckles] 767 00:39:18,211 --> 00:39:21,021 ROBERT: Shortly after the suicides happen, 768 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,231 there was this woman, Lee Ann Wolfe, she called me up, 769 00:39:24,251 --> 00:39:27,191 and she identified herself as an ex-member 770 00:39:27,211 --> 00:39:29,071 and told me that she was just living 771 00:39:29,091 --> 00:39:30,220 up on Flathead Lake here... 772 00:39:32,060 --> 00:39:35,151 and kinda put me in touch with a lot of other people. 773 00:39:35,171 --> 00:39:38,231 And we have the reunion in 1998. 774 00:39:41,100 --> 00:39:43,151 TERRIE: In 1998, out in Montana, 775 00:39:43,171 --> 00:39:45,080 there was a Heaven's Gate reunion. 776 00:39:45,100 --> 00:39:46,200 Rob flew me out there, 777 00:39:46,220 --> 00:39:50,021 and a bunch of other people, ex-Heaven's Gaters. 778 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,031 ROBERT: People getting along. 779 00:39:52,051 --> 00:39:55,140 Lorraine remaining 100% true believer. 780 00:39:58,180 --> 00:40:01,120 It is a very difficult trip. 781 00:40:01,140 --> 00:40:04,191 It's a very difficult thing to do. 782 00:40:04,211 --> 00:40:09,031 But it had such wonderful, beautiful endings, 783 00:40:09,051 --> 00:40:12,211 that it is all very much worthwhile. 784 00:40:14,091 --> 00:40:19,111 I believe that TiDo know my mind. 785 00:40:19,131 --> 00:40:22,240 And her daughter Sharon was the very first follower. 786 00:40:23,021 --> 00:40:26,220 SHARON NELSON: At the beginning, they were sort of humble. 787 00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:28,160 You know, two people out there in the wilderness 788 00:40:28,180 --> 00:40:30,191 trying to figure out what they're supposed to do. 789 00:40:30,211 --> 00:40:35,091 And you must understand that Marshall Herff Applewhite 790 00:40:35,111 --> 00:40:39,091 has a complex, and it's called the messiah complex. 791 00:40:39,111 --> 00:40:41,091 Regardless of how they left here, 792 00:40:41,111 --> 00:40:42,251 it doesn't matter. 793 00:40:44,091 --> 00:40:47,091 To me, they're on a higher level of understanding. 794 00:40:47,111 --> 00:40:50,040 Absolutely convinced that all of her Classmates 795 00:40:50,060 --> 00:40:51,171 were out in The Next Level. 796 00:40:51,191 --> 00:40:54,251 Dick Joslyn at this point is convinced 797 00:40:55,031 --> 00:40:57,171 that he had been brainwashed, but here they are, 798 00:40:57,191 --> 00:40:59,220 hanging out on very good terms. 799 00:41:01,100 --> 00:41:03,060 It was very cathartic 800 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,180 for most people, I think, who went there. 801 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,191 But then, Terrie Nettles had brought copies 802 00:41:11,211 --> 00:41:14,231 of these letters that her mom had written her. 803 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:21,111 So, Terrie read excerpts from these letters 804 00:41:21,131 --> 00:41:23,100 to these people in the group, 805 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:27,180 and they were, all of them, absolutely dumbfounded 806 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,021 when they heard 807 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,021 that while they're being told, 808 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,091 "you gotta give up your family, 809 00:41:35,111 --> 00:41:37,151 "and you're never gonna see them again, 810 00:41:37,171 --> 00:41:39,211 and you can't have any human attachments," 811 00:41:39,231 --> 00:41:42,100 and all of that, and meanwhile, 812 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:46,040 Ti has been writing home and signing letters 813 00:41:46,060 --> 00:41:48,220 like "Love, Mom, love always," 814 00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:52,031 and giving advice about how her daughter 815 00:41:52,051 --> 00:41:54,171 should conform to the ways of the world. 816 00:41:54,191 --> 00:42:00,220 The date on here was August 13th, 1982. 817 00:42:00,240 --> 00:42:03,200 She says, "Be good, strive for goodness, 818 00:42:03,220 --> 00:42:07,060 "and by all means, conform to society 819 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,060 so that you will have peace of mind." 820 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,031 I'm sorry, that was not their MO. 821 00:42:12,051 --> 00:42:13,231 They didn't believe in causing violence 822 00:42:13,251 --> 00:42:15,200 or anything like that. 823 00:42:15,220 --> 00:42:18,200 But by all means, conform to society? 824 00:42:18,220 --> 00:42:21,060 That was not what they were doing. 825 00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:24,111 That was code. 826 00:42:24,131 --> 00:42:25,251 I look back on that, that was code, 827 00:42:26,031 --> 00:42:27,240 but I didn't know it at the time. 828 00:42:28,021 --> 00:42:30,240 But I just feel like she wanted out of the group. 829 00:42:32,231 --> 00:42:34,231 ROBERT: When Terrie read those passages, 830 00:42:34,251 --> 00:42:37,091 I was really shocked. 831 00:42:37,111 --> 00:42:40,111 And all the members, absolutely across the board, 832 00:42:40,131 --> 00:42:43,091 they were just like-- not just flabbergasted, 833 00:42:43,111 --> 00:42:46,120 but a couple of 'em were just, like, pissed off. 834 00:42:46,140 --> 00:42:49,171 JANJA: During that whole time, Ti was writing letters 835 00:42:49,191 --> 00:42:52,211 to her daughter back in Texas and telling her to, like, 836 00:42:52,231 --> 00:42:54,240 do the right thing, go to college. 837 00:42:55,021 --> 00:42:56,160 [laughing] You know, and so you think, 838 00:42:56,180 --> 00:43:00,021 okay, if this lady really believed what she's saying, 839 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,091 to me, that is the most duplicitous example 840 00:43:03,111 --> 00:43:05,191 of sort of the con. 841 00:43:10,180 --> 00:43:13,211 TERRIE: People were angry, 842 00:43:13,231 --> 00:43:16,220 and I just kinda wanted to slither out of there. 843 00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:20,100 They weren't angry at me, and I knew that. 844 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:24,031 Looks to me like Ti really wanted to go home, 845 00:43:24,051 --> 00:43:27,151 but at the same time, she's probably thinking, 846 00:43:27,171 --> 00:43:30,080 "Here I am in this group, I have this comfortable life, 847 00:43:30,100 --> 00:43:33,200 "or I go home, and I'm constantly barraged by, 848 00:43:33,220 --> 00:43:36,200 "'Why did you run away? Why did you abandon your kids?' 849 00:43:36,220 --> 00:43:40,251 "Hm, I think it's gonna be easier for me to stay here 850 00:43:41,031 --> 00:43:43,131 "and die in this group than it is to go home 851 00:43:43,151 --> 00:43:45,251 and deal with all of that." 852 00:43:47,021 --> 00:43:49,100 She got in so deep and into it, 853 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,251 that she wasn't able to turn around. 854 00:44:07,231 --> 00:44:11,171 FRANK: When I left the Class, left the group, 855 00:44:11,191 --> 00:44:16,120 and tried to navigate my life 856 00:44:16,140 --> 00:44:19,021 as a citizen at large, 857 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,251 didn't really know who I was. 858 00:44:27,071 --> 00:44:32,060 I'm finally at a point where I could say 859 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,211 I want to be free. 860 00:44:34,231 --> 00:44:37,031 I want to travel the country, 861 00:44:37,051 --> 00:44:40,051 I want to roam free. 862 00:44:40,071 --> 00:44:42,111 So, I got a van. 863 00:44:42,131 --> 00:44:45,031 I'm gonna be on the road, 864 00:44:45,051 --> 00:44:49,051 and I'll be learning to have fun... 865 00:44:50,091 --> 00:44:54,191 like I haven't allowed myself to. 866 00:46:01,140 --> 00:46:03,171 She was the love of my life. 867 00:46:09,140 --> 00:46:11,111 I'm sure I will. 868 00:46:20,111 --> 00:46:22,131 SAWYER: I worked with Frank a number of times. 869 00:46:22,151 --> 00:46:25,171 His name in the group was ANDODY, A-N-D-O-D-Y. 870 00:46:25,191 --> 00:46:30,171 And Erika's name in the group was CHKODY, C-H-K-O-D-Y. 871 00:46:30,191 --> 00:46:34,240 And she got that name by taking the name "Check," 872 00:46:35,031 --> 00:46:36,140 like "check partner." 873 00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,051 They're both beautiful souls. 874 00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:49,220 I... I feel like Sawyer is... 875 00:46:49,240 --> 00:46:53,151 is stuck. 876 00:47:22,091 --> 00:47:24,091 SAWYER: I don't feel guilt. I feel like 877 00:47:24,111 --> 00:47:28,231 I flunked a test, I flunked my test, 878 00:47:28,251 --> 00:47:31,031 and that I could have graduated with them. 879 00:47:31,051 --> 00:47:33,071 I had the capacity to do that. 880 00:47:33,091 --> 00:47:35,080 I believe that 100%. 881 00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:39,231 Do left the door open, 882 00:47:39,251 --> 00:47:42,231 and so there's nobody that can close it. 883 00:47:42,251 --> 00:47:44,240 Only he can close it, 884 00:47:45,021 --> 00:47:47,160 when he decides that it's time. 885 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,071 And then we won't be talking about this anymore. 886 00:47:57,240 --> 00:48:00,131 [Aimee Mann, "Save Me"] 887 00:48:02,060 --> 00:48:04,080 JANJA: I think there are two lessons 888 00:48:04,100 --> 00:48:06,100 of the Heaven's Gate story. 889 00:48:07,100 --> 00:48:10,191 One is to not be judgmental. 890 00:48:10,211 --> 00:48:12,021 You know, everybody wants to think, 891 00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:13,120 "Oh, those are those crazy people. 892 00:48:13,140 --> 00:48:14,220 That's-- I would never do that." 893 00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:17,120 Mm, not so fast. 894 00:48:19,031 --> 00:48:21,040 But I suppose the most important lesson 895 00:48:21,060 --> 00:48:23,240 is to be careful. 896 00:48:24,021 --> 00:48:27,120 We tend to look for these easy answers, 897 00:48:27,140 --> 00:48:29,191 and I think it's important to remember 898 00:48:29,211 --> 00:48:32,120 that nobody has all the answers. 899 00:48:32,140 --> 00:48:36,031 And once you turn that over to someone, 900 00:48:36,051 --> 00:48:38,240 you put yourself at great risk. 901 00:48:39,021 --> 00:48:43,131 ♪ Save me ♪ 902 00:48:43,151 --> 00:48:46,051 ♪ Come on and ♪ 903 00:48:46,071 --> 00:48:49,131 ♪ Save Me ♪ 904 00:48:49,151 --> 00:48:52,031 DEB: It's an ongoing puzzle in my life, 905 00:48:52,051 --> 00:48:54,051 where I'm always going to wonder, 906 00:48:54,071 --> 00:48:57,071 was there something that I could have done? 907 00:48:58,231 --> 00:49:00,120 KELLY: I knew they loved me. 908 00:49:00,140 --> 00:49:03,021 I just didn't trust that they knew how to love me. 909 00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,051 ♪ They could never love anyone ♪ 910 00:49:05,071 --> 00:49:08,200 I don't know if you ever get over it, really. 911 00:49:08,220 --> 00:49:10,131 JASON: Some people are probably still upset 912 00:49:10,151 --> 00:49:13,051 by losing the people that they lost. 913 00:49:13,071 --> 00:49:14,211 And the only thing I can say is that 914 00:49:14,231 --> 00:49:17,191 they really, truly are in a better place. 915 00:49:17,211 --> 00:49:18,211 It's true. 916 00:49:18,231 --> 00:49:21,220 ♪ You know what it's like ♪ 917 00:49:23,171 --> 00:49:25,180 DO: They say that we're a hoax, 918 00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:31,021 say that we're just two misguided, 919 00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:33,180 insane creatures, 920 00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:37,200 and that these poor misguided individuals 921 00:49:37,220 --> 00:49:40,051 and others like them are-- are endeavoring 922 00:49:40,071 --> 00:49:41,200 to do this thing. 923 00:49:41,220 --> 00:49:44,080 They're stronger now. 924 00:49:44,100 --> 00:49:46,091 They have rid themselves more 925 00:49:46,111 --> 00:49:48,220 of the garbage they have collected. 926 00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:52,251 If we even turned out to not be what we were, 927 00:49:53,031 --> 00:49:55,151 they are ten times what they have ever been, 928 00:49:55,171 --> 00:49:57,120 and they know it. 929 00:49:57,140 --> 00:50:00,031 [song continues] 930 00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,031 ♪ Come on and ♪ 931 00:50:12,051 --> 00:50:16,071 ♪ Save me ♪ 932 00:50:16,091 --> 00:50:18,220 ♪ Why don't you ♪ 933 00:50:18,240 --> 00:50:22,021 ♪ Save me ♪ 934 00:50:36,100 --> 00:50:38,231 ♪ Come on and ♪ 935 00:50:38,251 --> 00:50:43,220 ♪ Save me ♪ 936 00:50:43,240 --> 00:50:47,080 ♪ From the ranks of the freaks ♪ 937 00:50:47,100 --> 00:50:51,120 ♪ Who suspect they could never love anyone ♪ 938 00:50:51,140 --> 00:50:54,031 ♪ Except the freaks ♪ 939 00:50:54,051 --> 00:50:57,131 ♪ Who could never love anyone ♪♪