1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:10,928 --> 00:00:12,888 [CRICKETS CHIRPING] 4 00:00:45,212 --> 00:00:47,172 [MUSIC PLAYING] 5 00:00:58,642 --> 00:01:01,728 I always first start with the eyeball like this. 6 00:01:01,812 --> 00:01:05,524 And you got to leave a little bit of space there for the goo. 7 00:01:05,607 --> 00:01:10,237 And these little froggy eyelids. 8 00:01:10,320 --> 00:01:12,823 It looks like sex parts a little bit. 9 00:01:15,450 --> 00:01:18,579 I've just always been into drawing. 10 00:01:18,662 --> 00:01:22,291 And it takes tons of time to come up with a character 11 00:01:22,374 --> 00:01:25,377 that you like enough to draw over and over again. 12 00:01:28,130 --> 00:01:30,799 It's just been kind of a slow drip of frogs 13 00:01:30,882 --> 00:01:32,968 throughout my entire life. 14 00:01:33,051 --> 00:01:35,220 It's just one little frog after another 15 00:01:35,304 --> 00:01:38,348 after another after another. 16 00:01:38,432 --> 00:01:39,808 And then, eventually, it was Pepe. 17 00:01:49,026 --> 00:01:50,485 It's a happy little frog. 18 00:02:01,997 --> 00:02:04,124 What do people get wrong about drawing Pepe? 19 00:02:07,628 --> 00:02:10,130 Probably when they put Pepe on the internet saying, 20 00:02:10,213 --> 00:02:12,591 like, kill Jews. 21 00:02:17,137 --> 00:02:21,975 Are you familiar with this meme called Pepe the Frog? 22 00:02:22,059 --> 00:02:23,560 For those who don't, here's a picture. 23 00:02:23,644 --> 00:02:24,519 Here's Pepe the Frog. 24 00:02:28,023 --> 00:02:29,983 Have you seen me on this frog meme? 25 00:02:30,067 --> 00:02:33,487 I forget the name of it. 26 00:02:33,570 --> 00:02:37,032 Many of you may remember Pepe the Frog, the once innocent, 27 00:02:37,115 --> 00:02:38,367 chill frog meme. 28 00:02:38,450 --> 00:02:44,373 (SINGING) Saw a man today, he led a big parade downtown. 29 00:02:44,456 --> 00:02:45,082 Helicopter came. 30 00:02:45,123 --> 00:02:49,503 Staff sergeants all came down. 31 00:02:49,586 --> 00:02:50,962 It sounds like-- 32 00:02:51,046 --> 00:02:54,007 I bet 90% of your viewers haven't heard of Pepe the Frog. 33 00:02:54,091 --> 00:02:56,510 1 thought it was a frog in a wig. 34 00:02:56,593 --> 00:02:59,888 The white supremacist movement has taken over Pepe the Frog. 35 00:02:59,971 --> 00:03:01,181 (SINGING) 'Cause I've been living in Hell, living in Hell 36 00:03:01,264 --> 00:03:01,723 with you. 37 00:03:15,278 --> 00:03:17,364 I've been living in hell...Living in Hell with you. 38 00:04:02,284 --> 00:04:04,661 We're here in the Community Thrift store. 39 00:04:04,745 --> 00:04:08,206 And it all started here. 40 00:04:08,290 --> 00:04:09,708 Let's see what's back here. 41 00:04:13,086 --> 00:04:17,466 I do get waves of nostalgia for the youthful time in my 20s 42 00:04:17,549 --> 00:04:19,384 working here, just hanging out with my friends 43 00:04:19,468 --> 00:04:22,471 and just riding a bike around San Francisco. 44 00:04:22,554 --> 00:04:26,475 So I basically just want to be young again. 45 00:04:32,773 --> 00:04:36,818 This is my old office space here. 46 00:04:36,902 --> 00:04:40,197 It used to be the toy department. 47 00:04:40,280 --> 00:04:42,824 This is where I spent my days with-- 48 00:04:42,908 --> 00:04:44,951 [GIGGLING] 49 00:04:45,035 --> 00:04:46,328 That tickles. 50 00:04:46,411 --> 00:04:47,329 Guys like that. 51 00:04:51,166 --> 00:04:54,461 1 would have literally a mountain of toys every day, 52 00:04:54,544 --> 00:04:57,547 and it was just really inspiring. 53 00:04:57,631 --> 00:05:00,342 It's like working inside of a brain. 54 00:05:00,425 --> 00:05:03,678 If 1 got caught up with my work, I would just draw. 55 00:05:03,762 --> 00:05:05,847 Every day would be like new toys that would come in, 56 00:05:05,931 --> 00:05:06,848 and I would draw them. 57 00:05:06,932 --> 00:05:09,643 And so it was my ideal job situation. 58 00:05:12,521 --> 00:05:15,524 Matt was always drawing that frog, forever, I swear. 59 00:05:15,607 --> 00:05:17,734 That was his go-to thing to draw. 60 00:05:17,818 --> 00:05:22,072 So I've been seeing that frog's face for as long 61 00:05:22,155 --> 00:05:22,948 as I've known Matt. 62 00:05:22,989 --> 00:05:24,366 [SNEEZING] 63 00:05:24,449 --> 00:05:26,368 Ew. 64 00:05:26,451 --> 00:05:27,327 [GIGGLING] 65 00:05:27,410 --> 00:05:28,328 Excuse you. 66 00:05:28,411 --> 00:05:30,497 Ew, ew, ew. 67 00:05:30,580 --> 00:05:33,124 The first time I actually named him Pepe was for this comic 68 00:05:33,208 --> 00:05:36,044 that I did called Playtime. 69 00:05:36,127 --> 00:05:38,171 I was just messing around on Microsoft Paint 70 00:05:38,255 --> 00:05:43,927 and came up with the Pepe and Brett, two characters. 71 00:05:44,010 --> 00:05:48,598 They did things like go to raves and paint. 72 00:05:48,682 --> 00:05:52,394 It just kind of naturally developed. 73 00:05:52,477 --> 00:05:54,896 And I just thought it'd be fun to have four characters, kind 74 00:05:54,980 --> 00:05:56,398 of like the Ninja Turtles. 75 00:05:56,481 --> 00:05:59,568 It became Boy's Club. 76 00:05:59,651 --> 00:06:00,110 A 77 00:06:00,151 --> 00:06:03,947 Lot of the humor is about post-college zone. 78 00:06:04,030 --> 00:06:05,907 You don't quite know what you're doing, 79 00:06:05,991 --> 00:06:08,076 but you like drinking and hanging out. 80 00:06:08,159 --> 00:06:11,371 The four characters were just reflections of my personality 81 00:06:11,454 --> 00:06:13,206 and the personality of my friends. 82 00:06:13,290 --> 00:06:15,041 Landwolf, the party dog. 83 00:06:15,125 --> 00:06:17,127 Andy was the jokester of the group. 84 00:06:17,210 --> 00:06:18,378 Brett liked to dance. 85 00:06:18,461 --> 00:06:20,005 And then Pepe the Frog was just kind of 86 00:06:20,088 --> 00:06:21,590 like the little brother in the group. 87 00:06:27,053 --> 00:06:30,223 The better ll got to know Matt, the more 88 00:06:30,307 --> 00:06:34,644 the similarities I saw with him and Pepe. 89 00:06:34,728 --> 00:06:37,272 Even the way Pepe looks, he kind of 90 00:06:37,355 --> 00:06:38,940 looks like Matt a little bit. 91 00:06:42,652 --> 00:06:46,531 Matt was a little bit different from what most people would 92 00:06:46,615 --> 00:06:49,826 consider a typical cartoonist. 93 00:06:49,910 --> 00:06:51,036 I think it's more like this. 94 00:06:54,122 --> 00:06:57,083 Button down shirt, nerd glasses. 95 00:06:57,167 --> 00:07:00,211 He seemed like he was like a cool guy. 96 00:07:00,295 --> 00:07:03,089 And Boy's Club, it's one of the funniest comics of, I 97 00:07:03,173 --> 00:07:05,717 don't know, the last 10 years. 98 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,386 What's happening here is Landwolf is passed out, 99 00:07:08,470 --> 00:07:10,055 but that's how he passed out. 100 00:07:10,138 --> 00:07:11,681 He didn't quite make it onto the bed. 101 00:07:11,765 --> 00:07:13,892 I don't know why, I thought he was trying to jerk off 102 00:07:13,975 --> 00:07:15,977 and he passed out while he was-- 103 00:07:16,061 --> 00:07:17,729 Oh, I see. 104 00:07:17,812 --> 00:07:18,688 Yeah. 105 00:07:18,772 --> 00:07:20,231 I guess it's open for interpretation. 106 00:07:20,315 --> 00:07:21,942 It is open for interpretation. 107 00:07:22,025 --> 00:07:24,361 Landwolf, I think he represents the kind 108 00:07:24,444 --> 00:07:28,573 of hairy, gross roommate that you have sometimes, 109 00:07:28,657 --> 00:07:29,449 clogging the drains. 110 00:07:29,532 --> 00:07:33,119 It just made me think of our actual roommate, Chris. 111 00:07:33,203 --> 00:07:35,580 It's issues. 112 00:07:35,664 --> 00:07:37,290 We're talking about these because they're 113 00:07:37,374 --> 00:07:39,834 meant to be read in the privacy of your own home. 114 00:07:39,918 --> 00:07:41,169 [LAUGHTER] 115 00:07:41,252 --> 00:07:43,922 I've never actually had to explain any of this shit. 116 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:48,218 I met Matt at a comics convention 117 00:07:48,301 --> 00:07:49,928 where we were signing next to each other. 118 00:07:50,011 --> 00:07:51,471 I loved Matt's comics. 119 00:07:51,554 --> 00:07:53,348 I grew up with an older brother, so I already 120 00:07:53,431 --> 00:07:57,435 had that sense of humor where I liked boner jokes and barf 121 00:07:57,519 --> 00:07:58,603 and farts. 122 00:07:58,687 --> 00:08:00,563 [FARTING] 123 00:08:00,647 --> 00:08:02,732 To me, it felt very accessible. 124 00:08:02,816 --> 00:08:04,275 It's the sort of masculinity where 125 00:08:04,359 --> 00:08:07,028 you can be in your underwear singing to Shaniah Twain. 126 00:08:07,112 --> 00:08:07,320 [MUSIC - SHANIAH TWAIN, "MAN! 127 00:08:07,362 --> 00:08:07,570 I FEEL LIKE A WOMAN"] 128 00:08:07,612 --> 00:08:09,030 (SINGING) Oh, oh, oh. 129 00:08:09,114 --> 00:08:11,032 Go totally crazy. 130 00:08:11,116 --> 00:08:12,993 Forget I'm a lady. 131 00:08:13,076 --> 00:08:14,869 Men's shirts, short skirts. 132 00:08:14,953 --> 00:08:17,789 When I watched Seinfeld, ll liked Kramer the best. 133 00:08:17,872 --> 00:08:20,583 When I read Boy's Club, ll like Landwolf the best. 134 00:08:20,667 --> 00:08:23,628 I guess Pepe's is more of an Elaine. 135 00:08:23,712 --> 00:08:26,673 Elaine is great, but-- 136 00:08:26,756 --> 00:08:30,176 yeah, if Elaine had become a symbol of the alt right, 137 00:08:30,260 --> 00:08:31,886 1 would be like, yeah, that's crazy. 138 00:08:31,970 --> 00:08:35,223 That shouldn't be the case. 139 00:08:35,306 --> 00:08:37,976 It seems incredibly random. 140 00:08:38,059 --> 00:08:40,020 People were like, this is the character 141 00:08:40,103 --> 00:08:42,188 we're going to use for the internet. 142 00:08:42,272 --> 00:08:44,232 This is going to be the mascot for the internet. 143 00:08:51,614 --> 00:08:56,911 One day, he was doing Boy's Club comics at my house. 144 00:08:56,995 --> 00:08:59,581 I remember I was sitting on Ayana's little love 145 00:08:59,664 --> 00:09:02,167 seat in her tiny-ass apartment. 146 00:09:02,250 --> 00:09:09,007 He said, can you stand over there and bend over and make 147 00:09:09,090 --> 00:09:11,342 it look like you're pulling your pants down while you're 148 00:09:11,426 --> 00:09:14,387 bending over so ll can draw you? 149 00:09:14,471 --> 00:09:16,181 Toilets are hard to draw. 150 00:09:16,264 --> 00:09:18,933 People pulling down their pants is hard to draw. 151 00:09:19,017 --> 00:09:20,643 So I kind of hunched over pretended 152 00:09:20,727 --> 00:09:22,562 like I was pulling my pants down, 153 00:09:22,645 --> 00:09:25,398 and he drew a little sketch. 154 00:09:25,482 --> 00:09:28,818 Ended up being Pepe. 155 00:09:28,902 --> 00:09:33,239 So that was my butt, and my toilet. 156 00:09:37,202 --> 00:09:40,288 So is Pepe's body based on Ayanna? 157 00:09:40,371 --> 00:09:40,997 Not the feet. 158 00:09:43,666 --> 00:09:47,003 Whatever kind of weird stuff stuck with me in childhood, 159 00:09:47,087 --> 00:09:49,547 sometimes it ends up in Boy's Club. 160 00:09:49,631 --> 00:09:52,175 I remember when I was in second grade 161 00:09:52,258 --> 00:09:56,012 and I went to the bathroom alongside my cousin David. 162 00:09:56,096 --> 00:09:57,931 And he pulled his pants all the way down 163 00:09:58,014 --> 00:10:01,726 to go pee, underwear and everything. 164 00:10:01,810 --> 00:10:04,229 Seems like it would feel really good. 165 00:10:04,312 --> 00:10:07,649 So I wanted to make a comic about that. 166 00:10:07,732 --> 00:10:08,566 Feels good, man. 167 00:10:11,569 --> 00:10:15,615 That was the frame that started it all. 168 00:10:26,292 --> 00:10:28,670 I just thought it was cool that I can just draw a comic, 169 00:10:28,753 --> 00:10:31,214 scan it in, and put it on Myspace, 170 00:10:31,297 --> 00:10:33,842 and then people would see it instantly. 171 00:10:38,388 --> 00:10:41,099 Back then, it was newer territory. 172 00:10:41,182 --> 00:10:43,101 And I liked the vibe of Myspace a lot. 173 00:10:43,184 --> 00:10:45,770 It was like we're inside somebody's locker room 174 00:10:45,854 --> 00:10:46,813 or something. 175 00:10:52,777 --> 00:10:56,531 At the time, I had some friends that were into exercise. 176 00:10:56,614 --> 00:11:00,493 And they found online a before and after shot 177 00:11:00,577 --> 00:11:03,121 that would say, "Feels good, man." 178 00:11:03,204 --> 00:11:04,664 Thought it was really weird. 179 00:11:04,747 --> 00:11:07,000 A lot of weightlifters would be, like, oh, I just 180 00:11:07,083 --> 00:11:08,501 finished a great workout. 181 00:11:08,585 --> 00:11:11,713 Feels good, man. 182 00:11:11,796 --> 00:11:14,591 And ll remember just thinking, oh, that 183 00:11:14,674 --> 00:11:16,134 can't be because of Pepe. 184 00:11:16,217 --> 00:11:19,387 It's just some random accident. 185 00:11:19,470 --> 00:11:21,181 The catchphrase "Feels good, man" 186 00:11:21,264 --> 00:11:24,309 started becoming more popular. 187 00:11:24,392 --> 00:11:26,477 It would be a photo of a cat or something, 188 00:11:26,561 --> 00:11:28,354 and then it would say, "Feels good, man." 189 00:11:28,438 --> 00:11:32,192 Or there was one version of it that said "Feels Goodman," 190 00:11:32,275 --> 00:11:33,985 with John Goodman's face. 191 00:11:34,068 --> 00:11:35,528 It was pretty funny at the time. 192 00:11:41,701 --> 00:11:44,245 When I would check my email, every so often somebody 193 00:11:44,329 --> 00:11:47,582 would send me a link to Pepe being 194 00:11:47,665 --> 00:11:50,919 in some kind of weird chatroom or something like that. 195 00:11:51,002 --> 00:11:53,379 I remember specifically my dad sent me 196 00:11:53,463 --> 00:11:55,423 a link to this kid who made a Pepe song. 197 00:11:55,506 --> 00:11:58,718 (SINGING) Hey Pepe, I heard you pull your pants down all 198 00:11:58,801 --> 00:11:59,886 the way to go pee. 199 00:11:59,969 --> 00:12:00,845 Could you show me? 200 00:12:00,929 --> 00:12:03,097 Feels good, man. 201 00:12:03,181 --> 00:12:05,183 Feels good, man. 202 00:12:05,266 --> 00:12:08,686 It was like this big nerdy thing. 203 00:12:08,770 --> 00:12:13,233 I was kind of interested in it as a internet phenomenon, 204 00:12:13,316 --> 00:12:15,235 but ll didn't really think too much about it. 205 00:12:15,318 --> 00:12:17,946 1 was just like, ha-ha, whatever. 206 00:12:18,029 --> 00:12:23,243 When it started to snowball and Matt didn't seem to mind, 207 00:12:23,326 --> 00:12:27,330 I was a little like, that's weird. 208 00:12:27,413 --> 00:12:28,248 I said, sue them. 209 00:12:28,331 --> 00:12:30,625 Lawyer up. 210 00:12:30,708 --> 00:12:34,545 Man, I'm an artist, so ll don't like suing other artists. 211 00:12:34,629 --> 00:12:36,297 He just was like, oh, yeah, man. 212 00:12:36,381 --> 00:12:38,800 Just let them do what they want. 213 00:12:38,883 --> 00:12:40,051 Using Pepe as a meme. 214 00:12:40,134 --> 00:12:41,135 That's cool. 215 00:12:41,219 --> 00:12:42,762 A meme. 216 00:12:42,845 --> 00:12:44,722 1 didn't even know what a meme was, 217 00:12:44,806 --> 00:12:47,225 or ll don't even still know if I'm saying that correctly. 218 00:12:47,308 --> 00:12:50,186 But it was through Pepe that I learned would have meme was. 219 00:13:03,950 --> 00:13:05,994 It's hard to remember what I first 220 00:13:06,077 --> 00:13:07,704 thought when I saw Pepe the Frog, 221 00:13:07,787 --> 00:13:10,832 but I think I imagined like, in my student days, 222 00:13:10,915 --> 00:13:16,004 these guys hanging out with a spliff and having a nice time. 223 00:13:16,087 --> 00:13:18,298 And he was just rather sort of hopeless and sweet, 224 00:13:18,381 --> 00:13:20,842 and I just thought, oh. 225 00:13:20,925 --> 00:13:22,719 Chick, chick, chick, chick, chickens. 226 00:13:22,802 --> 00:13:23,678 Come on. 227 00:13:23,761 --> 00:13:27,181 The whole idea of memes comes from Richard Dawkins' 1976 228 00:13:27,265 --> 00:13:29,100 book The Selfish Gene. 229 00:13:29,183 --> 00:13:32,895 Most of the book is about what he called universal Darwinism, 230 00:13:32,979 --> 00:13:36,482 which said all of biology is driven by genes, 231 00:13:36,566 --> 00:13:40,862 but culture is driven by memes. 232 00:13:40,945 --> 00:13:43,114 He said, look around you, and you'll see floating 233 00:13:43,197 --> 00:13:46,117 about in the primeval soup of culture 234 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,703 is information copied by imitation from person 235 00:13:48,786 --> 00:13:50,663 to person. 236 00:13:50,747 --> 00:13:56,127 So that would include chairs, trousers, hairstyles. 237 00:13:56,210 --> 00:13:58,546 All of these things are only here 238 00:13:58,629 --> 00:14:01,549 because humans have copied them, and the ones around us 239 00:14:01,632 --> 00:14:04,719 are the winners in an evolutionary battle. 240 00:14:04,802 --> 00:14:09,766 And then, gradually, came the concept of internet memes. 241 00:14:09,849 --> 00:14:14,645 And people can easily see that process happening with Pepe. 242 00:14:20,234 --> 00:14:22,612 Pepe is a wonderful example of a meme that 243 00:14:22,695 --> 00:14:26,366 escaped out there into the memosphere 244 00:14:26,449 --> 00:14:28,701 and suffered all the things you'd expect of a meme. 245 00:14:32,872 --> 00:14:35,041 Pepe is just folds upon folds. 246 00:14:37,627 --> 00:14:41,547 The Pepe technique is to draw too many lines. 247 00:14:41,631 --> 00:14:47,178 There's another fold and then another fold, and these lumps. 248 00:14:47,261 --> 00:14:50,223 And he looks really cracked out, but that's the idea. 249 00:14:50,306 --> 00:14:53,184 It's like steering into that mistake. 250 00:14:53,267 --> 00:14:55,937 He also symbolizes steering into the mistake of staying 251 00:14:56,020 --> 00:14:56,938 in your mom's basement. 252 00:15:00,691 --> 00:15:03,820 I saw Boy's Club around 2007 or so 253 00:15:03,903 --> 00:15:06,406 when he was first posting it on the internet. 254 00:15:06,489 --> 00:15:09,826 And it just kept appearing in message boards. 255 00:15:09,909 --> 00:15:12,537 Feels good, man. 256 00:15:12,620 --> 00:15:15,456 In that little story, he's owning the fact 257 00:15:15,540 --> 00:15:17,667 that he's this weird guy. 258 00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:19,627 That moment of owning your loserdom, 259 00:15:19,710 --> 00:15:23,464 owning your weirdness, is perfect 4chan ethics. 260 00:15:27,635 --> 00:15:30,888 Christopher Poole, he was 14 years old living 261 00:15:30,972 --> 00:15:35,393 with his mom spending all his time indoors on the internet. 262 00:15:35,476 --> 00:15:40,064 And he created this crazy monster in his basement. 263 00:15:40,148 --> 00:15:42,817 Now, over seven million people are using it, contributing over 264 00:15:42,900 --> 00:15:44,527 700,000 posts per day. 265 00:15:44,610 --> 00:15:47,947 And we've gone from one board to 48 boards. 266 00:15:52,493 --> 00:15:54,829 So 4chan, just the way that it functioned 267 00:15:54,912 --> 00:15:58,416 was super conducive to creating memes. 268 00:15:58,499 --> 00:16:01,544 The way 4chan works is that it's a Darwinian competition 269 00:16:01,627 --> 00:16:02,753 for attention. 270 00:16:02,837 --> 00:16:06,674 So you have a post, and if the post gets a lot of replies, 271 00:16:06,757 --> 00:16:08,259 it floats to the top. 272 00:16:08,342 --> 00:16:12,180 And if no one replies, it sinks to the bottom and quickly dies. 273 00:16:12,263 --> 00:16:14,515 It's a winning and losing system, 274 00:16:14,599 --> 00:16:17,101 and it's a lot like a video game. 275 00:16:17,185 --> 00:16:19,312 There were all of these adolescent boys trying to own 276 00:16:19,395 --> 00:16:22,315 each other in the competition. 277 00:16:22,398 --> 00:16:25,193 And so it became this culture of saying 278 00:16:25,276 --> 00:16:28,779 the most offensive thing. 279 00:16:28,863 --> 00:16:33,159 And so Pepe kind of melts into that community. 280 00:16:33,242 --> 00:16:34,994 And all of this stuff that just exploded out 281 00:16:35,077 --> 00:16:36,871 of the culture four or five years later 282 00:16:36,954 --> 00:16:39,123 were being invented there by all these clever people. 283 00:16:39,207 --> 00:16:41,125 And they were all anonymous. 284 00:16:53,221 --> 00:16:57,225 On 4chan, you're talking to another text box, 285 00:16:57,308 --> 00:17:00,520 so you're free to express those secret ideas that people have 286 00:17:00,603 --> 00:17:03,064 that they don't feel comfortable expressing in real life. 287 00:17:07,985 --> 00:17:10,238 I posted Pepes all the time. 288 00:17:10,321 --> 00:17:14,242 To not post Pepe would be strange because it's just-- 289 00:17:14,325 --> 00:17:16,118 it's the meme. 290 00:17:16,202 --> 00:17:16,911 Post. 291 00:17:16,953 --> 00:17:18,037 Send. 292 00:17:18,120 --> 00:17:18,621 Boom. 293 00:17:18,663 --> 00:17:20,206 So there I am right there. 294 00:17:20,289 --> 00:17:24,252 It's hard to say why Pepe gained popularity so fast. 295 00:17:24,335 --> 00:17:28,381 You could say it was just an easily relatable image. 296 00:17:28,464 --> 00:17:31,467 My own collection, I have my reaction image folder 297 00:17:31,551 --> 00:17:33,886 filled with Pepe and all the derivatives. 298 00:17:36,514 --> 00:17:39,684 The term was, "We feel alone together." 299 00:17:39,767 --> 00:17:40,601 That was their idea. 300 00:17:43,896 --> 00:17:47,066 As it ages, it just gets more desperate. 301 00:17:47,149 --> 00:17:50,194 They would describe themselves as NEET. 302 00:17:50,278 --> 00:17:52,989 NEET stands for Not in Education, Employment, 303 00:17:53,072 --> 00:17:54,156 or Training. 304 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:55,741 The idea was that they were trying 305 00:17:55,825 --> 00:17:59,161 to find a word that described their situation 306 00:17:59,245 --> 00:18:02,915 for these masses of kids who were just unemployed 307 00:18:02,999 --> 00:18:05,084 or just dropped out of life. 308 00:18:05,167 --> 00:18:07,336 I think the best thing would be to start with a job. 309 00:18:07,420 --> 00:18:08,212 No. 310 00:18:08,296 --> 00:18:10,464 Yeah, absolutely she needs a job. 311 00:18:10,548 --> 00:18:11,007 No. 312 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,346 So 4chan really comes to embody that culture 313 00:18:17,430 --> 00:18:19,515 of checking out and living in your mom's basement. 314 00:18:27,148 --> 00:18:29,734 It started in 2003, and it still exists. 315 00:18:29,817 --> 00:18:32,653 So imagine people being on their 10 years, it 316 00:18:32,737 --> 00:18:33,863 becoming a lifestyle. 317 00:18:53,007 --> 00:18:54,467 A lot of people are talking that they 318 00:18:54,550 --> 00:18:57,803 have super hot basement layers where they get to NEET it up. 319 00:18:57,887 --> 00:19:00,473 Well, basically, nobody's really touching my game right now. 320 00:19:00,556 --> 00:19:04,060 So got the primo couch bed. 321 00:19:04,143 --> 00:19:06,187 And I just kick this shit all over the place 322 00:19:06,270 --> 00:19:09,982 because I just don't give a fuck about anything. 323 00:19:10,066 --> 00:19:10,858 And it's a life. 324 00:19:14,612 --> 00:19:16,697 1 think I saw images of Pepe first 325 00:19:16,781 --> 00:19:20,159 in the fitness board of 4chan. 326 00:19:20,242 --> 00:19:22,078 This frog was so prevalent. 327 00:19:25,081 --> 00:19:28,209 What does Pepe mean to me? 328 00:19:28,292 --> 00:19:29,251 What does he mean to me? 329 00:19:32,213 --> 00:19:33,172 He's a frog. 330 00:19:36,133 --> 00:19:37,343 He's a sad frog. 331 00:19:41,847 --> 00:19:44,308 On 4chan, the quote-unquote "sad frog" 332 00:19:44,392 --> 00:19:49,146 became the most popular image for displaying sadness. 333 00:19:49,230 --> 00:19:52,858 There were other images that would describe that feeling. 334 00:19:52,942 --> 00:19:55,611 You had things like the picture of Keanu Reeves sitting 335 00:19:55,695 --> 00:20:01,534 on a bench, but maybe he's just deep in thought. 336 00:20:01,617 --> 00:20:04,286 That sad frog, you knew what it was about. 337 00:20:04,370 --> 00:20:07,623 Nothing else needed to be said there. 338 00:20:07,707 --> 00:20:10,918 Pepe the sad frog. 339 00:20:11,001 --> 00:20:12,336 Pepe. 340 00:20:12,420 --> 00:20:13,045 Pepe what? 341 00:20:13,087 --> 00:20:14,213 The sad frog. 342 00:20:14,296 --> 00:20:15,339 The sad frog? 343 00:20:15,423 --> 00:20:16,549 Pepe the sad frog. 344 00:20:16,632 --> 00:20:18,759 What's that? 345 00:20:18,843 --> 00:20:21,011 It wasn't something that was really circulated heavily 346 00:20:21,095 --> 00:20:23,931 on Facebook or any of that stuff at the time. 347 00:20:24,014 --> 00:20:27,643 Pepe just felt uniquely 4chan. 348 00:20:27,727 --> 00:20:28,728 Feels bad, man. 349 00:20:28,811 --> 00:20:30,146 1 didn't know about the Boy's Club 350 00:20:30,229 --> 00:20:31,856 comic or anything like that. 351 00:20:31,939 --> 00:20:34,066 I did not know who Matt Furie was. 352 00:20:34,150 --> 00:20:36,318 Even after ll learned about Boy's Club, 353 00:20:36,402 --> 00:20:38,571 I was like, oh, the making of a Pepe comic. 354 00:20:38,654 --> 00:20:39,447 Oh, that's cool. 355 00:21:12,021 --> 00:21:13,397 That's the story. 356 00:21:13,481 --> 00:21:16,192 It's about somewhere in the future where 357 00:21:16,275 --> 00:21:18,277 the mutants have taken over. 358 00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:20,029 And they make new children. 359 00:21:20,112 --> 00:21:21,572 I like this style of gun. 360 00:21:21,655 --> 00:21:22,782 Yeah. 361 00:21:22,865 --> 00:21:28,037 Are you actually the guy that made Pepe? 362 00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:30,206 Yeah, yeah. 363 00:21:30,289 --> 00:21:38,339 But it must suck for you that he has become hijacked by 4chan. 364 00:21:38,422 --> 00:21:41,091 It definitely sucks, but nothing's forever, right? 365 00:21:45,054 --> 00:21:47,932 I'm just a spectator to how things mutate 366 00:21:48,015 --> 00:21:50,142 and evolve on the internet. 367 00:21:50,226 --> 00:21:53,687 You can kind of see everything as some big joke, 368 00:21:53,771 --> 00:21:56,899 but it's kind of a window into this dark place. 369 00:22:01,070 --> 00:22:03,072 I'll draw you a little Pepe. 370 00:22:03,155 --> 00:22:05,366 People on the internet had their own characters 371 00:22:05,449 --> 00:22:07,535 that Pepe was interacting with. 372 00:22:07,618 --> 00:22:09,620 There's one where he's interacting with this guy, 373 00:22:09,703 --> 00:22:10,788 I think his name was Wojak. 374 00:22:14,083 --> 00:22:16,418 I would see pictures of Pepe hugging 375 00:22:16,502 --> 00:22:19,880 this stark, white, sad-looking guy. 376 00:22:19,964 --> 00:22:21,131 And I was like, what is that? 377 00:22:24,552 --> 00:22:31,308 They call him the Feels Guy, or Wojack is the proper term. 378 00:22:31,392 --> 00:22:35,688 He was for expressing an unpleasant feeling. 379 00:22:35,771 --> 00:22:38,649 I'd be sitting there and I'd be tense from anxiety and like-- 380 00:22:38,732 --> 00:22:40,192 and being like that. 381 00:22:40,276 --> 00:22:41,610 And then I'd go on the board a bit 382 00:22:41,694 --> 00:22:44,280 like, OK, these are my people. 383 00:22:44,363 --> 00:22:45,781 We're all over the world, but we all 384 00:22:45,865 --> 00:22:48,242 have these feelings of anxiety and everything together. 385 00:22:48,325 --> 00:22:52,162 It's like a group therapy on the internet. 386 00:22:52,246 --> 00:22:54,748 Even when I was at work, we had these security cameras. 387 00:22:54,832 --> 00:22:57,668 I'd duck behind stack of crates, quick just be like, 388 00:22:57,751 --> 00:22:59,545 you dumb idiots. 389 00:22:59,628 --> 00:23:01,338 Then I'd checked like 10, 15 minutes later, 390 00:23:01,422 --> 00:23:03,048 and I'd see who's replying to me. 391 00:23:03,132 --> 00:23:06,510 And I would face an onslaught of people just saying how I 392 00:23:06,594 --> 00:23:08,345 was the most hideous man alive. 393 00:23:08,429 --> 00:23:10,097 1 would wear that as a badge of honor. 394 00:23:10,180 --> 00:23:12,933 I'd be like, yes, I'm a true 4chan guy. 395 00:23:13,017 --> 00:23:14,810 I'm a true social reject. 396 00:23:14,894 --> 00:23:16,103 I'm a true freak. 397 00:23:16,186 --> 00:23:17,229 Yeah, you're darn tootin'. 398 00:23:23,152 --> 00:23:26,530 I'm a latecomer to Pepe, probably 399 00:23:26,614 --> 00:23:29,533 because he's not my type. 400 00:23:29,617 --> 00:23:35,414 I came to Pepe after he had gone dark. 401 00:23:35,497 --> 00:23:37,458 Pepe is a sad frog. 402 00:23:37,541 --> 00:23:38,334 He's never happy. 403 00:23:38,375 --> 00:23:39,835 He's just sort of miserable. 404 00:23:45,966 --> 00:23:50,346 And I think for a huge population, online and offline, 405 00:23:50,429 --> 00:23:53,223 we're not really allowed to express sorrow or sadness 406 00:23:53,307 --> 00:23:54,516 or grief. 407 00:23:54,600 --> 00:24:00,189 And this sad little frog arrives online in the midst of the push 408 00:24:00,272 --> 00:24:03,901 to commodify the internet. 409 00:24:03,984 --> 00:24:06,070 What was going on at that point is that everybody 410 00:24:06,153 --> 00:24:08,113 was super damn positive. 411 00:24:08,197 --> 00:24:11,367 People were suddenly able to make cash money out 412 00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:13,619 of their image, which meant that they 413 00:24:13,702 --> 00:24:19,416 had to be totally rad, happy, fitspo, my best self thing. 414 00:24:19,500 --> 00:24:23,212 Then in drops Pepe, ripe for the taking. 415 00:24:23,295 --> 00:24:23,963 Hey, guys. 416 00:24:24,004 --> 00:24:24,755 It's me, Louie. 417 00:24:27,466 --> 00:24:30,594 Today, I'm going to be doing a Pepe transformation. 418 00:24:35,683 --> 00:24:39,561 Pepe starts to percolate into another population we've got, 419 00:24:39,645 --> 00:24:42,022 a lot more women, a lot of girls. 420 00:24:42,106 --> 00:24:45,359 And they're starting to own Pepe. 421 00:24:45,442 --> 00:24:45,985 Hey, guys. 422 00:24:46,026 --> 00:24:48,654 I just googled what a meme was, and I 423 00:24:48,737 --> 00:24:51,573 think I'm in love with memes. 424 00:24:51,657 --> 00:24:54,743 Pepe is the best. 425 00:24:54,827 --> 00:25:01,291 You draw the head, which is just like a butt. 426 00:25:01,375 --> 00:25:04,878 Things began to spiral really out of control. 427 00:25:04,962 --> 00:25:09,717 A couple of celebrities, Nicki Minaj and Katy Perry, 428 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,678 they had posted on Instagram a couple of Pepe images. 429 00:25:19,226 --> 00:25:20,894 A lot of people see it for the first time. 430 00:25:20,978 --> 00:25:22,021 They're wondering, who is this frog? 431 00:25:22,104 --> 00:25:22,813 What is this frog? 432 00:25:22,855 --> 00:25:23,731 What is this? 433 00:25:23,814 --> 00:25:25,399 I want to see some more of that. 434 00:25:25,482 --> 00:25:29,737 They start making a migration over to 4chan. 435 00:25:29,820 --> 00:25:32,948 Young women in particular download Pepe images, 436 00:25:33,032 --> 00:25:35,367 using them for their own likes. 437 00:25:35,451 --> 00:25:38,370 And that was seen is despicable. 438 00:25:38,454 --> 00:25:40,539 I love Pepe so much. 439 00:25:40,622 --> 00:25:42,499 The true Pepe is this Pepe. 440 00:25:42,583 --> 00:25:45,335 Pepe's green skin is so beautiful. 441 00:25:45,419 --> 00:25:46,962 It's different from frog. 442 00:25:47,046 --> 00:25:48,088 Pepe green is special. 443 00:25:51,216 --> 00:25:53,802 It seemed to me like invasion. 444 00:25:53,886 --> 00:25:55,637 You had people that would come on and say, 445 00:25:55,721 --> 00:25:57,556 why are you virgin losers here? 446 00:25:57,639 --> 00:25:59,224 Where is the Pepe pictures at? 447 00:25:59,308 --> 00:25:59,975 Where they at? 448 00:26:00,017 --> 00:26:03,520 I strive to be Pepe. 449 00:26:03,604 --> 00:26:06,065 Just kidding. 450 00:26:06,148 --> 00:26:10,569 1 hate Pepe the frog, whatever his name is. 451 00:26:10,652 --> 00:26:11,987 Pe-- Pepe. 452 00:26:12,071 --> 00:26:15,032 Either way, he's stupid. 453 00:26:15,115 --> 00:26:17,201 And I don't really know why I made 454 00:26:17,284 --> 00:26:20,829 my face green to prove the point that I hate Pepe, 455 00:26:20,913 --> 00:26:24,666 but let me prove it by saying, I hate you, Pepe. 456 00:26:24,750 --> 00:26:29,296 I'm going to chop your head off, your little froggy 457 00:26:29,379 --> 00:26:31,965 head off, like this. 458 00:26:32,049 --> 00:26:34,093 It was serious to a lot of people. 459 00:26:34,176 --> 00:26:38,013 This is the symbol of our culture. 460 00:26:38,097 --> 00:26:41,141 And it really was turning into a total Pepe fest. 461 00:26:54,279 --> 00:26:56,406 Nice. 462 00:26:56,490 --> 00:26:58,367 Pepe was just really turning into a thing. 463 00:26:58,450 --> 00:27:01,995 And my buddy Skinner was like, hey, 464 00:27:02,079 --> 00:27:04,248 you should do a clothing line. 465 00:27:04,331 --> 00:27:05,249 [MUSIC PLAYING] 466 00:27:05,332 --> 00:27:07,209 [WORDLESS SINGING] 467 00:27:13,090 --> 00:27:15,717 It was just kind of funny to make something official 468 00:27:15,801 --> 00:27:19,847 out of something that's so bootlegged on the internet. 469 00:27:23,142 --> 00:27:27,688 I drew all these goofy-ass Pepes that were based on just 470 00:27:27,771 --> 00:27:30,941 whatever random nonsense was out there on the internet. 471 00:27:31,024 --> 00:27:33,402 I like this one with the little cigarette. 472 00:27:33,485 --> 00:27:35,779 This one is particularly weird. 473 00:27:35,863 --> 00:27:38,198 And this one is just-- 474 00:27:38,282 --> 00:27:39,032 I like that. 475 00:27:39,074 --> 00:27:41,451 That's a very stripped down Pepe. 476 00:27:41,535 --> 00:27:44,580 It's a sad frog golf shirt. 477 00:27:44,663 --> 00:27:47,332 You can have a pasta meal with your family wearing this one. 478 00:27:50,919 --> 00:27:53,297 Pepe was a famous meme. 479 00:27:53,380 --> 00:27:56,508 And my friend Jay, he got a tattoo gun he just 480 00:27:56,592 --> 00:27:58,552 had set up in his kitchen. 481 00:27:58,635 --> 00:28:01,805 And so one night, I think was just completely spontaneous, 482 00:28:01,889 --> 00:28:05,434 we were just like, oh, let's get Pepe tattoos. 483 00:28:05,517 --> 00:28:07,936 Just very little thought goes into this at all. 484 00:28:10,772 --> 00:28:13,358 Because we just thought it was funny to have a Pepe tattoo. 485 00:28:13,442 --> 00:28:17,571 And Matt was there, so it was like a tribute to my friend. 486 00:28:17,654 --> 00:28:21,700 1 didn't know at the time, but I got like below my sleeve here. 487 00:28:21,783 --> 00:28:25,954 That would come back to bite me. 488 00:28:26,038 --> 00:28:29,666 As the Pepe defense was building to try and steer people 489 00:28:29,750 --> 00:28:34,671 away from using Pepe for their own normie usage, 490 00:28:34,755 --> 00:28:39,676 that spawned a lot of angry, raging Pepes. 491 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:41,845 But then that fateful day occurred 492 00:28:41,929 --> 00:28:46,350 where there was a YouTube video of screaming frogs. 493 00:28:46,433 --> 00:28:48,101 Say something for the camera. 494 00:28:48,185 --> 00:28:51,355 Look at that thing blow up like a balloon. 495 00:28:51,438 --> 00:28:53,357 [SCREECHING] 496 00:29:00,656 --> 00:29:03,867 They have a high-pitched scream, which sounded a lot like, 497 00:29:03,951 --> 00:29:04,743 "Ree!" 498 00:29:04,785 --> 00:29:05,869 [SCREECHING] 499 00:29:11,166 --> 00:29:12,793 And it became this battle cry. 500 00:29:18,340 --> 00:29:22,552 There'd be somebody who would be coming in from Instagram, 501 00:29:22,636 --> 00:29:26,473 out themselves as maybe a sex-haver or a woman, 502 00:29:26,556 --> 00:29:30,269 neurotypical, socially well-adjusted person. 503 00:29:30,352 --> 00:29:33,981 Once you get that seed planted in the head of, like, 504 00:29:34,064 --> 00:29:36,817 the popular kids and look how they're living 505 00:29:36,900 --> 00:29:38,235 and look at you-- 506 00:29:38,318 --> 00:29:40,946 you're this slug. 507 00:29:41,029 --> 00:29:43,282 All you normies have been bullying us our whole lives. 508 00:29:43,365 --> 00:29:46,159 I'll never be one of you disgusting normies. 509 00:29:46,243 --> 00:29:47,619 Fuck normies. 510 00:29:51,081 --> 00:29:53,000 [SCREAMING] 511 00:30:02,175 --> 00:30:03,927 These were a group of disempowered men 512 00:30:04,011 --> 00:30:06,096 who had retreated into fantasy worlds. 513 00:30:06,179 --> 00:30:07,973 [GROWLING] 514 00:30:08,056 --> 00:30:11,018 That was their last place of retreat, in a sense. 515 00:30:11,101 --> 00:30:13,520 And so having women there was what 516 00:30:13,603 --> 00:30:15,647 they didn't want, because that was a symbol 517 00:30:15,731 --> 00:30:17,190 of their defeat in real life. 518 00:30:26,450 --> 00:30:28,827 Ursula. 519 00:30:28,910 --> 00:30:29,870 Hey. 520 00:30:29,953 --> 00:30:31,455 Is that Twilight Sparkle? 521 00:30:31,538 --> 00:30:32,581 Mm-hmm. 522 00:30:32,664 --> 00:30:33,665 Is that her name? 523 00:30:33,749 --> 00:30:34,207 Yeah. 524 00:30:34,249 --> 00:30:37,419 She's like, Ursula, I'm going to help you. 525 00:30:37,502 --> 00:30:39,379 Aww. 526 00:30:39,463 --> 00:30:41,465 That's so cute. 527 00:30:41,548 --> 00:30:44,634 That one says, a pocket mouse sleeps safely in its nest. 528 00:30:44,718 --> 00:30:46,053 That's so cute. 529 00:30:46,136 --> 00:30:47,054 It's a little mouse. 530 00:30:50,849 --> 00:30:55,145 People would just email me fucked up pictures of Pepe. 531 00:30:55,228 --> 00:30:57,647 And it didn't really shock me. 532 00:30:57,731 --> 00:31:01,234 I would be more shocked by people actually expressing 533 00:31:01,318 --> 00:31:04,196 some form of cuteness or love. 534 00:31:04,279 --> 00:31:08,575 This other stuff is just garbage. 535 00:31:08,658 --> 00:31:11,578 I think a weird thing about American culture in general 536 00:31:11,661 --> 00:31:14,289 is we do kind of celebrate garbage, 537 00:31:14,373 --> 00:31:17,084 and we also produce a hell of a lot of physical garbage. 538 00:31:17,167 --> 00:31:20,796 So it's just like fucking garbage world. 539 00:31:32,391 --> 00:31:34,393 I was definitely conscious of not wanting 540 00:31:34,476 --> 00:31:37,729 to be remembered as the artist that did Boy's Club, 541 00:31:37,813 --> 00:31:41,316 so I just wanted to keep doing other stuff. 542 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,777 There's no connection between this frog and Pepe 543 00:31:43,860 --> 00:31:46,571 other than they kind of look like one another. 544 00:31:46,655 --> 00:31:50,033 But this is just another frog in a different place. 545 00:31:52,702 --> 00:31:57,124 I decided to do a whole kids book that was totally wordless. 546 00:31:57,207 --> 00:32:01,086 It follows the life of this frog and his pet rat. 547 00:32:01,169 --> 00:32:03,088 Live in their little mushroom house. 548 00:32:03,171 --> 00:32:05,048 Their travels on the back of a bike. 549 00:32:07,801 --> 00:32:14,182 They wake up at nighttime and go exploring through the forest 550 00:32:14,266 --> 00:32:16,977 and end up surfing on some dolphins 551 00:32:17,060 --> 00:32:20,063 and swimming and going underground. 552 00:32:20,147 --> 00:32:23,358 I just really went for that childlike wonder with this one. 553 00:32:34,244 --> 00:32:39,249 The Night Riders, it's a work of highly skilled craftsmanship. 554 00:32:39,332 --> 00:32:42,586 Took him almost a year to make it. 555 00:32:42,669 --> 00:32:44,838 1 told him I saw that he had that in him, 556 00:32:44,921 --> 00:32:46,840 he had a Where the Wild Things Are in him. 557 00:32:46,923 --> 00:32:48,508 I just knew it. 558 00:32:48,592 --> 00:32:49,968 We were working on The Night Riders 559 00:32:50,051 --> 00:32:53,889 before all this insane Pepe stuff started to happen. 560 00:32:53,972 --> 00:32:57,225 Pepe is really just the tip of the iceberg for the kind of art 561 00:32:57,309 --> 00:32:59,978 that Matt's capable of making. 562 00:33:00,061 --> 00:33:02,439 How come the dragon doesn't have wings? 563 00:33:02,522 --> 00:33:05,025 It's more of a land dragon than a dragon of the air 564 00:33:05,108 --> 00:33:06,193 or a dragon of the sea. 565 00:33:06,276 --> 00:33:09,905 So he's a land dragon. 566 00:33:09,988 --> 00:33:12,365 The characters are of different species, 567 00:33:12,449 --> 00:33:15,243 but they seem like friends from a neighborhood. 568 00:33:15,327 --> 00:33:17,037 We can tell they love each other, 569 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,500 and the book is build toward a bunch of nocturnal animals 570 00:33:21,583 --> 00:33:22,792 experiencing a sunrise. 571 00:33:28,757 --> 00:33:29,466 The end. 572 00:33:36,014 --> 00:33:40,227 Pepe had escaped, and he was roaming around. 573 00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:48,610 And it was fun for a while, until it wasn't any more. 574 00:33:48,693 --> 00:33:52,364 On 4chan, whenever they thought, quote-unquote, 575 00:33:52,447 --> 00:33:54,449 "normies"” or outsiders, other sites, 576 00:33:54,533 --> 00:33:56,743 were stealing their memes, they would try and make them 577 00:33:56,826 --> 00:33:59,204 as offensive as possible. 578 00:33:59,287 --> 00:34:01,331 It's like a classic punk response. 579 00:34:01,414 --> 00:34:03,124 You're literally armored, like a punk. 580 00:34:03,208 --> 00:34:04,584 And you're like, it's so offensive, 581 00:34:04,668 --> 00:34:05,502 it can't be co-opted. 582 00:34:08,713 --> 00:34:11,424 So they put him next to the trade towers disintegrating. 583 00:34:11,508 --> 00:34:15,345 They put swastikas all over him and Nazify Pepe. 584 00:34:15,428 --> 00:34:17,347 And it snowballs. 585 00:34:17,430 --> 00:34:20,308 Back then, it was just the most offensive thing you could do. 586 00:34:20,392 --> 00:34:22,102 But it now reads as a weird prologue 587 00:34:22,185 --> 00:34:24,604 to when the irony kind of melted away. 588 00:34:27,983 --> 00:34:29,526 There are people on these platforms who 589 00:34:29,609 --> 00:34:31,486 believe that because you've couched 590 00:34:31,570 --> 00:34:35,156 your intention in a joke that you can disavow it-- 591 00:34:35,240 --> 00:34:35,740 That's right. 592 00:34:35,782 --> 00:34:36,283 --When people come asking. 593 00:34:36,324 --> 00:34:37,617 That's exactly right. 594 00:34:37,701 --> 00:34:39,411 So you create this ambiguity so there's 595 00:34:39,494 --> 00:34:41,621 no way for you to mean what you really mean ever. 596 00:34:41,705 --> 00:34:43,582 Yeah. 597 00:34:43,665 --> 00:34:45,709 1 think what's appealing about Pepe 598 00:34:45,792 --> 00:34:48,837 is that he combines this impossible mixture of innocence 599 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:50,547 and evil. 600 00:34:50,630 --> 00:34:53,091 He has this kind of knowing smile 601 00:34:53,174 --> 00:34:56,970 while he's performing acts that are really atrocious. 602 00:34:57,053 --> 00:34:59,598 It sort of fulfills the idea that we 603 00:34:59,681 --> 00:35:02,809 can say these terrible things and just mean them 604 00:35:02,892 --> 00:35:04,686 as jokes all the time. 605 00:35:04,769 --> 00:35:06,313 They're always just jokes all the time, 606 00:35:06,396 --> 00:35:08,815 and you can't prove otherwise. 607 00:35:08,898 --> 00:35:10,650 We're just a bunch of kids in our underwear. 608 00:35:10,734 --> 00:35:11,568 It's harmless. 609 00:35:11,651 --> 00:35:13,278 No one really means it. 610 00:35:13,361 --> 00:35:14,696 The problem, I think, is that it's 611 00:35:14,779 --> 00:35:21,036 really demonstrable in the worst cases that this isn't funny. 612 00:35:21,119 --> 00:35:23,371 It's not funny when people die. 613 00:35:23,455 --> 00:35:24,956 [INAUDIBLE] in progress. 614 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,251 We got another gun shot victim at [INAUDIBLE] shots fired. 615 00:35:28,335 --> 00:35:29,794 Shots fired. 616 00:35:29,878 --> 00:35:33,506 A black car pulls up and stops, and he rolls down the window. 617 00:35:33,590 --> 00:35:34,841 I just saw four gunshots. 618 00:35:34,924 --> 00:35:38,470 A Friday night rampage in this bustling college town. 619 00:35:38,553 --> 00:35:41,181 After two gun battles with police and a chase, 620 00:35:41,264 --> 00:35:42,307 seven people were dead. 621 00:35:42,390 --> 00:35:45,352 22-year-old Elliot Rodger believed to be the gunman. 622 00:35:45,435 --> 00:35:47,896 Tonight, investigators are poring over videos Rodger 623 00:35:47,979 --> 00:35:49,314 posted online. 624 00:35:49,397 --> 00:35:51,941 There was this intense pain that you 625 00:35:52,025 --> 00:35:55,236 could see where he was really divorced from reality. 626 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,781 He did the shooting spree in a car, a fancy car 627 00:35:57,864 --> 00:36:01,326 that his parents had bought for him to boost his confidence. 628 00:36:01,409 --> 00:36:04,162 Didn't even make an effort to talk to anybody. 629 00:36:04,245 --> 00:36:05,497 He was so closed off. 630 00:36:05,580 --> 00:36:07,374 And it was like, when he's sitting there, 631 00:36:07,457 --> 00:36:09,751 you can just tell he's just thinking these thoughts 632 00:36:09,834 --> 00:36:10,919 in his head the entire time. 633 00:36:11,002 --> 00:36:13,797 He's just talking to himself. 634 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,966 I came onto 4chan that day. 635 00:36:17,050 --> 00:36:19,302 People in this environment were starting get whipped up. 636 00:36:19,386 --> 00:36:20,929 And they were like, yeah, that's right. 637 00:36:21,012 --> 00:36:22,138 You showed them who's boss. 638 00:36:22,222 --> 00:36:27,143 He went out there, he stood up for being the virgin with rage. 639 00:36:27,227 --> 00:36:30,355 The very first picture of Elliot Rodger that I saved 640 00:36:30,438 --> 00:36:33,983 was a picture of this sort of semi transparent sobbing 641 00:36:34,067 --> 00:36:38,321 woman, and then three or four Pepes with guns. 642 00:36:38,405 --> 00:36:39,864 It was one of the very first ones 643 00:36:39,948 --> 00:36:43,827 that took Elliot and put it into sort of like a context. 644 00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:47,330 People started drawing Pepes riding around in a BMWs 645 00:36:47,414 --> 00:36:48,832 with Elliot Rodger. 646 00:36:48,915 --> 00:36:50,834 Yeah, I did get a little bit energized by it. 647 00:36:50,917 --> 00:36:52,669 It was just like, maybe society does need 648 00:36:52,752 --> 00:36:53,795 to get flipped on its head. 649 00:36:53,878 --> 00:36:55,839 [MUSIC PLAYING] 650 00:37:04,806 --> 00:37:05,724 Hi. 651 00:37:05,807 --> 00:37:08,727 Elliot Rodger here. 652 00:37:08,810 --> 00:37:09,894 I don't condone violence. 653 00:37:09,978 --> 00:37:11,688 I'm not a violence condoner. 654 00:37:11,771 --> 00:37:16,067 But he set me off in the path that made me who I am today, 655 00:37:16,151 --> 00:37:17,402 and I have to acknowledge that. 656 00:37:24,117 --> 00:37:26,661 On 4chan, you see something totally new 657 00:37:26,745 --> 00:37:32,834 called the beta male uprising, the beta uprising. 658 00:37:32,917 --> 00:37:35,545 The idea would be that all of them 659 00:37:35,628 --> 00:37:37,881 would run out of their mom's basements 660 00:37:37,964 --> 00:37:39,382 and start shooting people. 661 00:37:43,011 --> 00:37:45,638 And of course, it's a way of making fun of themselves. 662 00:37:45,722 --> 00:37:47,390 It's always coded in guarded irony. 663 00:37:47,474 --> 00:37:49,559 But of course, behind the irony is the seriousness. 664 00:37:49,642 --> 00:37:50,852 Why are you talking about that? 665 00:37:50,935 --> 00:37:53,062 It's because that's an issue that resonates with you. 666 00:37:53,146 --> 00:37:54,397 [MUSIC PLAYING] 667 00:37:54,481 --> 00:37:55,982 Uprise. 668 00:37:56,065 --> 00:37:57,942 Welcome to your demise. 669 00:37:58,026 --> 00:37:59,861 Pepe then becomes the symbol. 670 00:37:59,944 --> 00:38:02,071 You see him holding the gun. 671 00:38:02,155 --> 00:38:03,823 It's the classic response from 4chan, 672 00:38:03,907 --> 00:38:06,993 which is the most nihilistic and despairing and cynical, 673 00:38:07,076 --> 00:38:09,329 where anyone wants to kill themselves or do something 674 00:38:09,412 --> 00:38:11,623 awful or do something anti-social, 675 00:38:11,706 --> 00:38:15,460 making that screen illusion real in some way, 676 00:38:15,543 --> 00:38:16,920 they're like, yeah, go for it. 677 00:38:17,003 --> 00:38:19,798 Philadelphia area colleges have all warned students 678 00:38:19,881 --> 00:38:21,674 to be extra cautious tomorrow. 679 00:38:21,758 --> 00:38:23,259 This is the thread that was posted 680 00:38:23,343 --> 00:38:27,222 on 4chan, a message board where everyone is anonymous. 681 00:38:27,305 --> 00:38:29,474 It was posted last Friday, the day 682 00:38:29,557 --> 00:38:31,267 after the shooting in Oregon. 683 00:38:31,351 --> 00:38:33,478 It phrases the gunman as a fellow member 684 00:38:33,561 --> 00:38:35,146 of the beta rebellion. 685 00:38:35,230 --> 00:38:37,857 The post on 4chan uses a profile picture 686 00:38:37,941 --> 00:38:41,444 of what appears to be the Grinch in a mask holding a gun. 687 00:38:41,528 --> 00:38:43,822 That same picture was used in a post the day 688 00:38:43,905 --> 00:38:47,075 before the Oregon massacre. 689 00:38:47,158 --> 00:38:50,703 We see it's not just the memes generate the violence. 690 00:38:50,787 --> 00:38:53,998 It's that the violence becomes a meme. 691 00:38:54,082 --> 00:38:56,835 But it's just a joke, right? 692 00:38:56,918 --> 00:38:57,919 It's just a stupid frog. 693 00:39:01,089 --> 00:39:03,925 If you had had a victory over the normies, 694 00:39:04,008 --> 00:39:06,135 striking back at the oppressors, it 695 00:39:06,219 --> 00:39:10,682 was seen as too enthusiastic to post a big grinning, laughing, 696 00:39:10,765 --> 00:39:11,224 ha-ha-ha. 697 00:39:13,852 --> 00:39:15,186 So when the smug Pepe came out, it 698 00:39:15,270 --> 00:39:21,609 was groundbreaking in a way that is maybe hard to explain. 699 00:39:21,693 --> 00:39:26,072 It was the most succinct, perfect face. 700 00:39:26,155 --> 00:39:28,908 Then the hand up. 701 00:39:28,992 --> 00:39:34,581 It had the perfect silly look to it, crude, 702 00:39:34,664 --> 00:39:37,083 like holding back laughter but enjoying 703 00:39:37,166 --> 00:39:39,419 the suffering of others. 704 00:39:39,502 --> 00:39:43,172 It was the perfect trolling accessory. 705 00:39:43,256 --> 00:39:45,258 The way he's redrawn with his thumb 706 00:39:45,341 --> 00:39:47,427 up like this like really smug-- 707 00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:49,470 Yeah. 708 00:39:49,554 --> 00:39:53,141 That tone is so ugly. 709 00:39:53,224 --> 00:39:58,146 It's used to imply being above a conversation 710 00:39:58,229 --> 00:40:00,523 that people are trying to have about kindness. 711 00:40:07,322 --> 00:40:10,950 Trump was seen as the personification 712 00:40:11,034 --> 00:40:14,037 of the smug Pepe meme. 713 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,664 When he was announcing that he was going to run, 714 00:40:16,748 --> 00:40:19,375 every news story is they don't like him. 715 00:40:19,459 --> 00:40:21,252 People in his own party, they don't like him. 716 00:40:21,336 --> 00:40:23,671 And people in the other party, they really don't like him. 717 00:40:23,755 --> 00:40:25,381 It was like, oh, this is perfect. 718 00:40:25,465 --> 00:40:28,259 He's making everybody upset. 719 00:40:28,343 --> 00:40:31,721 A really interesting time in 4chan 720 00:40:31,804 --> 00:40:34,974 is Trump's initial announcement that he 721 00:40:35,058 --> 00:40:36,726 is running for president. 722 00:40:36,809 --> 00:40:40,563 If you look at the 4chan threads, before Trump's speech, 723 00:40:40,647 --> 00:40:43,274 it was fairly skeptical. 724 00:40:43,358 --> 00:40:47,403 But then they saw a lot of these things in his rhetoric 725 00:40:47,487 --> 00:40:48,112 that they liked. 726 00:40:48,154 --> 00:40:49,447 They saw nationalism. 727 00:40:49,530 --> 00:40:51,699 They saw white nationalism. 728 00:40:51,783 --> 00:40:54,744 And almost immediately, you'll see people being like, 729 00:40:54,827 --> 00:40:58,039 can we get a Pepe with Donald Trump hair? 730 00:40:58,122 --> 00:40:59,666 I want to start circulating this. 731 00:40:59,749 --> 00:41:01,459 And that happened-- that's within hours. 732 00:41:18,768 --> 00:41:24,357 I think that President Trump is a real-life version of Pepe 733 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,569 in the ability to elicit a reaction 734 00:41:28,653 --> 00:41:31,572 and to get attention, to express and to capture people's hopes 735 00:41:31,656 --> 00:41:33,866 and fears. 736 00:41:33,950 --> 00:41:36,244 I was formerly the director of strategy and data 737 00:41:36,327 --> 00:41:40,164 for the Trump campaign, so I know as much if not more 738 00:41:40,248 --> 00:41:45,837 about how to use voter data than anybody else in the country. 739 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:50,258 During the campaign, there was an effort by 4chan 740 00:41:50,341 --> 00:41:53,636 to get other people to support the president by creating 741 00:41:53,720 --> 00:41:57,015 memes, and then sharing them to, say, 742 00:41:57,098 --> 00:42:02,478 normies to try to motivate them to support President Trump. 743 00:42:02,562 --> 00:42:06,441 The inside terminology for this was the great meme war. 744 00:42:09,277 --> 00:42:10,945 It gave people who had never really been 745 00:42:11,029 --> 00:42:13,406 involved in politics before a way in. 746 00:42:16,034 --> 00:42:18,536 The best memes that you see, the most effective ones, 747 00:42:18,619 --> 00:42:21,456 are just some person who has no power at all. 748 00:42:21,539 --> 00:42:22,415 They have no influence. 749 00:42:22,498 --> 00:42:23,124 They have no money. 750 00:42:23,166 --> 00:42:24,125 They have no connections. 751 00:42:24,208 --> 00:42:25,918 But if they can make one good meme, 752 00:42:26,002 --> 00:42:28,838 they can take off and go viral. 753 00:42:28,921 --> 00:42:30,214 And then when you hyper charge it 754 00:42:30,298 --> 00:42:31,883 by having the President retweet it, 755 00:42:31,966 --> 00:42:33,968 you felt like you were part of this rebel group, 756 00:42:34,052 --> 00:42:37,638 this insurgency that was completely 757 00:42:37,722 --> 00:42:39,390 unpredictable and from-- 758 00:42:39,474 --> 00:42:41,976 where no one would have ever expected it. 759 00:42:42,060 --> 00:42:46,022 How does an image like this end up on Donald Trump's Twitter 760 00:42:46,105 --> 00:42:47,523 account? 761 00:42:47,607 --> 00:42:50,651 4chan supported Trump for a mix of reasons. 762 00:42:50,735 --> 00:42:52,612 Some of it I think was this nihilistic idea 763 00:42:52,695 --> 00:42:54,697 that Trump was a wrecking ball and that they 764 00:42:54,781 --> 00:42:57,742 wanted to embarrass people by electing him. 765 00:42:57,825 --> 00:43:01,037 And so when Trump retweeted himself depicted as Pepe, 766 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,206 it was like this watershed moment. 767 00:43:06,626 --> 00:43:10,296 This is Donald Trump a co-opting the idea of himself 768 00:43:10,379 --> 00:43:12,757 substituted as Pepe. 769 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,427 It was so transgressive, so anti-PC. 770 00:43:16,511 --> 00:43:19,931 To most of the voters out there, it just seem kind of odd. 771 00:43:20,014 --> 00:43:21,891 But if you were part of the community that 772 00:43:21,974 --> 00:43:25,186 has been spending years and years and years using Pepe, 773 00:43:25,269 --> 00:43:28,481 suddenly a little antenna goes up and you pick up a signal 774 00:43:28,564 --> 00:43:32,443 and say, wow, maybe this guy's right for us. 775 00:43:47,375 --> 00:43:50,837 There was always magic going on in any political campaign. 776 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,798 And so what happened when Pepe the Frog suddenly 777 00:43:53,881 --> 00:43:59,887 became, in effect, Donald Trump's invisible running mate 778 00:43:59,971 --> 00:44:02,515 was that a magical force had entered the picture. 779 00:44:02,598 --> 00:44:06,144 And it was a wild card. 780 00:44:06,227 --> 00:44:09,981 A meme can become the anchor, the seed, if you will, 781 00:44:10,064 --> 00:44:12,775 around which a group of like-minded people can gather 782 00:44:12,859 --> 00:44:14,652 and toward which they can focus their energy. 783 00:44:14,735 --> 00:44:17,155 That's a basic tool of meme magic. 784 00:44:17,238 --> 00:44:24,495 And that's one of the things we saw during the 2016 election. 785 00:44:24,579 --> 00:44:26,205 The way that magic was used on the chans 786 00:44:26,289 --> 00:44:31,377 was they focused on building up a series of hyper-sigils 787 00:44:31,460 --> 00:44:35,715 of images like Pepe the Frog, and piled 788 00:44:35,798 --> 00:44:39,510 into those images all of their hopes and all of their energy, 789 00:44:39,594 --> 00:44:43,097 their emotional focus of seeing Donald Trump in the White 790 00:44:43,181 --> 00:44:44,390 House. 791 00:44:44,473 --> 00:44:46,475 You ended up with a lot of people on the chans 792 00:44:46,559 --> 00:44:48,227 just going, wow, 1 could do this. 793 00:45:05,494 --> 00:45:08,873 This is not Republicanism as we have known it. 794 00:45:12,460 --> 00:45:15,713 These are racist ideas, race-baiting ideas, 795 00:45:15,796 --> 00:45:20,301 anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant, anti-women, all key tenets 796 00:45:20,384 --> 00:45:23,679 making up an emerging racist ideology 797 00:45:23,763 --> 00:45:26,265 known as the alt-right. 798 00:45:26,349 --> 00:45:27,141 Pepe! 799 00:45:27,225 --> 00:45:31,145 Now, alt-right is short for alternative right. 800 00:45:31,229 --> 00:45:33,147 The Wall Street Journal describes it 801 00:45:33,231 --> 00:45:38,319 as a loose racist ideology known as the alt-right. 802 00:45:38,402 --> 00:45:39,195 Pepe! 803 00:45:39,278 --> 00:45:39,737 Pepe! 804 00:45:42,490 --> 00:45:46,077 And to most people, that was a totally inexplicable thing 805 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:46,827 at the moment. 806 00:45:46,869 --> 00:45:48,162 Must be totally random. 807 00:45:48,246 --> 00:45:50,957 To the white supremacist, anti-Semitic, neo-Nazi right 808 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,501 in this country, that was a moment of triumph. 809 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:03,886 Suddenly, Pepe the meme, the most silliest piece 810 00:46:03,970 --> 00:46:08,933 of meaningless culture, was sort of passing through the screen. 811 00:46:09,016 --> 00:46:10,977 It was like the dream of the troll, 812 00:46:11,060 --> 00:46:12,103 making the internet real. 813 00:46:22,822 --> 00:46:27,076 It was becoming weird to have this tattoo. 814 00:46:32,164 --> 00:46:35,543 Here to get me involved in your nightmare world? 815 00:46:35,626 --> 00:46:36,961 Mm-hmm. 816 00:46:37,044 --> 00:46:38,337 That's good. 817 00:46:38,421 --> 00:46:39,547 We're here to exploit you. 818 00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,095 Is this-- this better be about Landwolf. 819 00:46:46,178 --> 00:46:47,638 Watch your head. 820 00:46:47,722 --> 00:46:51,934 Please don't kick my cat, if you can help it. 821 00:46:54,979 --> 00:46:57,940 I think it's funny that Chris got the Pepe 822 00:46:58,024 --> 00:47:00,985 tattooed on his arm, and he's like, I have to hide it now. 823 00:47:01,068 --> 00:47:04,447 Somebody at Subway thought I was a white power dude. 824 00:47:04,530 --> 00:47:04,989 [LAUGHTER] 825 00:47:05,031 --> 00:47:06,949 Everybody's actually very-- everybody 826 00:47:07,033 --> 00:47:08,117 was very excited about Pepe. 827 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:10,453 They were like, oh, wow, Pepe's this awesome meme, dude. 828 00:47:10,536 --> 00:47:11,245 Pepe rules. 829 00:47:11,287 --> 00:47:12,163 Wow, you made Pepe? 830 00:47:12,246 --> 00:47:17,293 I was all proud of myself, strutting down the street. 831 00:47:17,376 --> 00:47:19,545 Now people just throw rocks at you. 832 00:47:19,628 --> 00:47:21,630 That's the guy who created Pepe. 833 00:47:21,714 --> 00:47:24,592 You're not strutting anymore, are you, sicko? 834 00:47:24,675 --> 00:47:27,678 Now I'm like just slithering down 835 00:47:27,762 --> 00:47:31,015 the street in a pool of my own waste or something. 836 00:47:31,098 --> 00:47:32,141 Whoa. 837 00:47:32,224 --> 00:47:34,101 Like a slug lord. 838 00:47:34,185 --> 00:47:37,438 Like just a slurping slimeball. 839 00:47:37,521 --> 00:47:41,525 But I really do feel like this would only happen to you. 840 00:47:50,659 --> 00:47:53,454 I interviewed Matt Furie in September 2016 841 00:47:53,537 --> 00:47:55,206 for the Atlantic. 842 00:47:55,289 --> 00:47:58,459 My impression of Furie was that he was very well-intentioned 843 00:47:58,542 --> 00:48:02,505 but somewhat naive about the extent to which this symbol had 844 00:48:02,588 --> 00:48:05,007 been appropriated by the far right. 845 00:48:05,091 --> 00:48:07,468 Pepe is a white nationalist symbol. 846 00:48:07,551 --> 00:48:10,096 Increasingly being used by white supremacists. 847 00:48:10,179 --> 00:48:12,848 Something of a mascot of the alt-right. 848 00:48:12,932 --> 00:48:15,643 Defining the alt-right is somewhat easier these days. 849 00:48:15,726 --> 00:48:18,104 But in around 2016, it encompassed a lot 850 00:48:18,187 --> 00:48:20,898 of people who were ideologically opposed to the left, 851 00:48:20,981 --> 00:48:22,900 but not necessarily united on every issue. 852 00:48:22,983 --> 00:48:24,944 And then you had people like Richard Spencer, who 853 00:48:25,027 --> 00:48:26,654 were overt white nationalists. 854 00:48:26,737 --> 00:48:28,614 It's going to involve Pepe. 855 00:48:28,697 --> 00:48:31,659 It's going to involve unleashing a little chaos. 856 00:48:31,742 --> 00:48:34,537 For the alt-right, Pepe allows them to pretend 857 00:48:34,620 --> 00:48:35,454 that they're kidding. 858 00:48:35,538 --> 00:48:36,497 They're not kidding. 859 00:48:36,580 --> 00:48:40,126 What they want is for you to be both scared by the threat 860 00:48:40,209 --> 00:48:43,587 and be mocked for being scared in the first place. 861 00:48:43,671 --> 00:48:46,048 The point is to cause that kind of psychic anguish, 862 00:48:46,132 --> 00:48:48,717 and they draw a great deal of pleasure from that. 863 00:48:48,801 --> 00:48:50,719 Basically, alt-right is a big tent, 864 00:48:50,803 --> 00:48:54,598 or rather a big rock under which creeps a diverse assortment 865 00:48:54,682 --> 00:48:57,685 of paleoconservatives, men's rights misogynists-- 866 00:48:57,768 --> 00:49:01,397 I remember I went to a taping of Sam Bee, 867 00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:05,401 and she had a segment about Pepe the Frog. 868 00:49:05,484 --> 00:49:07,027 And I got to meet her after the taping. 869 00:49:07,111 --> 00:49:09,405 --Cyber-bullies, and good old-fashion neo-Nazis. 870 00:49:09,488 --> 00:49:11,657 And I was like, you know, Pepe was actually 871 00:49:11,740 --> 00:49:14,493 created by a friend of mine, and he's a really sweet artist. 872 00:49:14,577 --> 00:49:18,122 And it doesn't mean this thing that it transformed into. 873 00:49:18,205 --> 00:49:20,666 And she was just like, OK. 874 00:49:20,749 --> 00:49:23,627 The alt-right's use of Pepe just drowned out 875 00:49:23,711 --> 00:49:26,005 any other visual interpretation. 876 00:49:26,088 --> 00:49:28,507 Trump's former campaign chair, Steve Bannon, 877 00:49:28,591 --> 00:49:31,510 said the Democrats are not the opposition party, 878 00:49:31,594 --> 00:49:33,012 the media is the opposition party. 879 00:49:33,095 --> 00:49:34,305 And how do you beat the media? 880 00:49:34,388 --> 00:49:35,806 You flood the zone with shit. 881 00:49:35,890 --> 00:49:37,892 Well, these people are flooding the zone with shit 882 00:49:37,975 --> 00:49:42,438 so that you don't know what's real or what's not. 883 00:49:42,521 --> 00:49:44,231 Quite frankly, I've been to these events. 884 00:49:44,315 --> 00:49:45,441 Wasn't even real. 885 00:49:45,524 --> 00:49:45,983 Oh, no. 886 00:49:46,025 --> 00:49:48,319 They're just Jewish actors, a lot of the KKK guys 887 00:49:48,402 --> 00:49:49,195 with their hats off. 888 00:49:49,278 --> 00:49:52,072 Literally looks like the cast of Seinfeld. 889 00:49:52,156 --> 00:49:54,742 A conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones 890 00:49:54,825 --> 00:49:58,245 appeals to Trump because one of Trump's major political tools 891 00:49:58,329 --> 00:50:02,166 is forcing people to reject objective reality in favor 892 00:50:02,249 --> 00:50:03,667 of his version of reality. 893 00:50:03,751 --> 00:50:05,169 Well, Donald Trump, let me say this, 894 00:50:05,252 --> 00:50:07,087 you are the leading presidential front 895 00:50:07,171 --> 00:50:09,715 runner with the Republicans, gaining a huge lead 896 00:50:09,798 --> 00:50:10,674 as you don't back down. 897 00:50:10,758 --> 00:50:11,050 But I've got to just-- 898 00:50:11,091 --> 00:50:13,511 And the point of it is to obliterate objective truth. 899 00:50:13,594 --> 00:50:15,012 Fake news! 900 00:50:15,095 --> 00:50:16,472 Fuck CNN! 901 00:50:16,555 --> 00:50:17,973 Fuck CNN! 902 00:50:18,057 --> 00:50:21,644 Trump frames his language in terms of winners and losers. 903 00:50:21,727 --> 00:50:23,395 Are you sick of fucking winning? 904 00:50:23,479 --> 00:50:24,688 No! 905 00:50:24,772 --> 00:50:26,398 What happens when that mindset is adopted 906 00:50:26,482 --> 00:50:28,234 by people on the bottom? 907 00:50:28,317 --> 00:50:30,569 Instead of thinking of society as where everyone's equal 908 00:50:30,653 --> 00:50:32,905 and we're all lifting ourselves up together, 909 00:50:32,988 --> 00:50:34,907 you think the world is a hierarchy. 910 00:50:34,990 --> 00:50:36,992 And the only way you're going to get to the top 911 00:50:37,076 --> 00:50:38,869 is by displacing someone else. 912 00:50:38,953 --> 00:50:40,538 Then you start getting these ideas like, 913 00:50:40,621 --> 00:50:43,499 well, maybe I'm at the bottom because this group of people 914 00:50:43,582 --> 00:50:46,293 has snuck their way to the top. 915 00:50:46,377 --> 00:50:48,295 They probably cheated their way up there. 916 00:50:48,379 --> 00:50:51,048 And so then you get these elaborate conspiracies about, 917 00:50:51,131 --> 00:50:54,093 like, oh, well, the Jews run the media. 918 00:50:54,176 --> 00:50:57,388 Immigrants, they're the problem. 919 00:50:57,471 --> 00:50:58,347 Build the wall! 920 00:50:58,430 --> 00:51:00,307 Fuck those dirty beaners. 921 00:51:00,391 --> 00:51:02,268 Build the wall. 922 00:51:02,351 --> 00:51:04,186 We're not giving in. 923 00:51:04,270 --> 00:51:05,646 We're not going away. 924 00:51:05,729 --> 00:51:08,691 And we're giving them a big, giant, red, white, and blue 925 00:51:08,774 --> 00:51:10,192 middle finger! 926 00:51:10,276 --> 00:51:11,652 [CHEERING] 927 00:51:15,030 --> 00:51:18,742 So then it started to get strange. 928 00:51:18,826 --> 00:51:21,495 Somebody on the chans, nobody knows who, 929 00:51:21,579 --> 00:51:24,582 found an ancient Egyptian frog god whose name was Kek. 930 00:51:24,665 --> 00:51:27,001 He looked like an anthropomorphic figure 931 00:51:27,084 --> 00:51:29,920 with a frog's head, rather like Pepe. 932 00:51:30,004 --> 00:51:32,006 Obviously, that had to be shared. 933 00:51:32,089 --> 00:51:35,301 And the chans went ape. 934 00:51:35,384 --> 00:51:37,970 The reason why this caught on is that Kek 935 00:51:38,053 --> 00:51:39,555 is a bit of gamer slang. 936 00:51:39,638 --> 00:51:42,850 For complicated reasons, where we say, ha-ha-ha, 937 00:51:42,933 --> 00:51:45,603 in certain gaming circles, you say, kek-kek-kek. 938 00:51:49,982 --> 00:51:52,026 Trumpeter is taking the Hill. 939 00:51:52,109 --> 00:51:56,739 The nation of Kek, Kekistan taking the Hill. 940 00:51:56,822 --> 00:51:58,991 They come up with this idea of Kekistan, 941 00:51:59,074 --> 00:52:01,702 of a kind of promised land for Pepes. 942 00:52:01,785 --> 00:52:04,121 And any time you have these ideas 943 00:52:04,204 --> 00:52:08,375 of ethnic homelands and tribalist blood and soil, 944 00:52:08,459 --> 00:52:10,377 it automatically seems to cluster 945 00:52:10,461 --> 00:52:16,175 in with the worst exercises in human depravity. 946 00:52:16,258 --> 00:52:19,345 So all I need to do is just put on the mask. 947 00:52:19,428 --> 00:52:20,471 Put on the mask. 948 00:52:26,060 --> 00:52:28,687 There had been rumors flying on the chans 949 00:52:28,771 --> 00:52:31,690 that Hillary Clinton was actually seriously ill. 950 00:52:31,774 --> 00:52:33,651 And a great many chaos magicians magicians 951 00:52:33,734 --> 00:52:36,487 were focusing their magical work on one goal, which was 952 00:52:36,570 --> 00:52:39,323 making her collapse in public. 953 00:52:39,406 --> 00:52:42,743 There's a thing that people talk about in occult circles called 954 00:52:42,826 --> 00:52:44,745 the TSW moment. 955 00:52:44,828 --> 00:52:49,833 TSW-- the polite version is This Stuff Works. 956 00:52:49,917 --> 00:52:52,920 The chans went through their TSW moment. 957 00:52:53,003 --> 00:52:55,714 Hillary Clinton collapsed and had to be hauled into the SUV 958 00:52:55,798 --> 00:52:56,507 by other people. 959 00:53:01,845 --> 00:53:04,181 1 honestly think, at that point, if Donald Trump had 960 00:53:04,264 --> 00:53:07,810 asked the habitues of the chans to walk into the ocean, 961 00:53:07,893 --> 00:53:09,144 they would have done it. 962 00:53:11,980 --> 00:53:16,527 To just be grossly generalistic, you 963 00:53:16,610 --> 00:53:18,987 could put half of Trump supporters 964 00:53:19,071 --> 00:53:21,865 into what I call the basket of deplorables. 965 00:53:21,949 --> 00:53:23,784 [LAUGHTER] 966 00:53:23,867 --> 00:53:25,786 [APPLAUSE] 967 00:53:28,789 --> 00:53:33,335 They're racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, 968 00:53:33,419 --> 00:53:36,004 Islamophobic. 969 00:53:36,088 --> 00:53:38,674 Hillary Clinton then released an explainer 970 00:53:38,757 --> 00:53:41,719 explaining that Pepe was a hate symbol 971 00:53:41,802 --> 00:53:43,470 and that he symbolized the alt-right. 972 00:53:43,554 --> 00:53:46,807 And through these associations, it really 973 00:53:46,890 --> 00:53:49,893 made Trump look like a neo-Nazi. 974 00:53:49,977 --> 00:53:52,855 But it made her also look a little clueless. 975 00:53:52,938 --> 00:53:55,733 The idea that she was denouncing a cartoon frog 976 00:53:55,816 --> 00:53:59,903 was delightful to 4chan, delightful to the alt-right. 977 00:53:59,987 --> 00:54:03,782 It was the best thing that could have happened for them. 978 00:54:03,866 --> 00:54:07,411 It certainly galvanized people who thought, hey, I really 979 00:54:07,494 --> 00:54:10,289 dig Pepe, and she just launched an attack on me 980 00:54:10,372 --> 00:54:11,373 and called me a Nazi. 981 00:54:14,293 --> 00:54:17,212 Ladies and gentlemen, the battle has just begun, 982 00:54:17,296 --> 00:54:19,590 and we are ready. 983 00:54:19,673 --> 00:54:23,677 I think that that just solidified it. 984 00:54:23,761 --> 00:54:27,639 Once you start deeming something as a hate symbol, 985 00:54:27,723 --> 00:54:30,684 it does kind of become that. 986 00:54:30,768 --> 00:54:32,352 A popular cartoon character turned 987 00:54:32,436 --> 00:54:34,438 internet meme, Pepe the Frog, has 988 00:54:34,521 --> 00:54:36,315 been added to the Anti-Defamation League's 989 00:54:36,398 --> 00:54:38,108 database of hate symbols. 990 00:54:38,192 --> 00:54:39,610 In a press release, the organization 991 00:54:39,693 --> 00:54:41,403 wrote the character had been, quote, 992 00:54:41,487 --> 00:54:44,156 "used by haters on social media to suggest 993 00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:46,450 racist, anti-Semitic, or other bigoted 994 00:54:46,533 --> 00:54:48,494 notions as a hate symbol." 995 00:54:48,577 --> 00:54:51,288 Matt's name was in the description about it 996 00:54:51,371 --> 00:54:53,373 on the website. 997 00:54:53,457 --> 00:54:57,294 It's like a nightmare. 998 00:54:57,377 --> 00:55:00,881 He's thinking, I've worked my whole life as an artist, 999 00:55:00,964 --> 00:55:03,175 and now I'm going to be lumped in 1000 00:55:03,258 --> 00:55:06,804 with this weird new swastika? 1001 00:55:06,887 --> 00:55:09,097 Matt Furie put out a statement to the Associated Press. 1002 00:55:09,181 --> 00:55:11,266 He said he was horrified to see his creation become 1003 00:55:11,350 --> 00:55:13,602 a mascot for the alt-right fringe movement. 1004 00:55:13,685 --> 00:55:15,646 I don't want to be associated with this. 1005 00:55:15,729 --> 00:55:19,483 I'm trying to write children's books. 1006 00:55:19,566 --> 00:55:21,443 The nature of media and politics is stuff 1007 00:55:21,527 --> 00:55:24,613 that I've been trying to escape from my entire life 1008 00:55:24,696 --> 00:55:25,364 as an artist. 1009 00:55:25,405 --> 00:55:27,157 I don't give a shit about any of that stuff. 1010 00:55:27,241 --> 00:55:30,160 And then I got pulled into it just because I'm 1011 00:55:30,244 --> 00:55:34,373 on a hate symbol database list now, and it pissed me off. 1012 00:55:43,966 --> 00:55:47,761 As the news was going on that this internet frog has 1013 00:55:47,845 --> 00:55:50,180 been marked as a hate symbol, that's 1014 00:55:50,264 --> 00:55:52,432 when I got the phone call from our buyer. 1015 00:55:52,516 --> 00:55:53,767 They pulled it right away. 1016 00:55:53,851 --> 00:55:56,603 So we have about 3,000 items that 1017 00:55:56,687 --> 00:56:00,274 were going to go into 580 stores across the US, 1018 00:56:00,357 --> 00:56:04,069 and now it's in my garage. 1019 00:56:04,152 --> 00:56:06,238 These were probably like $15 each to make. 1020 00:56:06,321 --> 00:56:10,325 If you think of $15 times 3,000, it's pretty crazy. 1021 00:56:10,409 --> 00:56:10,868 Yeah. 1022 00:56:10,909 --> 00:56:15,372 It's $45,000. 1023 00:56:15,455 --> 00:56:17,499 We didn't want to give it to Goodwill. 1024 00:56:17,583 --> 00:56:19,126 We didn't want to sell it ourselves 1025 00:56:19,209 --> 00:56:23,505 because we were afraid white supremacists would wear it. 1026 00:56:23,589 --> 00:56:27,009 And then what is that worth versus putting out 1027 00:56:27,092 --> 00:56:27,885 a hate symbol? 1028 00:56:27,968 --> 00:56:31,597 And I'm sure you feel the same way. 1029 00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:34,975 A lot of the merchandise ended up having to be destroyed. 1030 00:56:35,058 --> 00:56:35,517 Yeah. 1031 00:56:35,559 --> 00:56:37,269 Now that's kind of the least of my worries. 1032 00:56:37,352 --> 00:56:38,103 I know. 1033 00:56:40,898 --> 00:56:42,816 He was a dummy. 1034 00:56:42,900 --> 00:56:44,902 He just let his character get away from him, 1035 00:56:44,985 --> 00:56:47,613 and now this shit happen. 1036 00:56:47,696 --> 00:56:52,117 Matt's just like most of us, a poor cartooning loser. 1037 00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:55,037 I was suggesting that he sue the Anti-Defamation 1038 00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:56,246 League for defamation. 1039 00:57:04,212 --> 00:57:06,798 I'm just trying to be positive. 1040 00:57:06,882 --> 00:57:10,677 Not everybody has a platform to talk about this kind of stuff. 1041 00:57:10,761 --> 00:57:15,015 I teamed up with the ADL to just try to offer people 1042 00:57:15,098 --> 00:57:16,266 some creative solutions. 1043 00:57:16,350 --> 00:57:17,559 [APPLAUSE] 1044 00:57:17,643 --> 00:57:18,810 Hi, everybody. 1045 00:57:22,689 --> 00:57:24,107 So what we're trying to do now is 1046 00:57:24,191 --> 00:57:26,652 to start a save Pepe campaign. 1047 00:57:26,735 --> 00:57:27,653 [LAUGHTER] 1048 00:57:28,445 --> 00:57:30,322 [APPLAUSE] 1049 00:57:32,741 --> 00:57:36,870 I invite everybody to draw their own peaceful version of Pepe 1050 00:57:36,954 --> 00:57:39,206 and share it on social media with #SavePepe. 1051 00:57:41,959 --> 00:57:45,837 Can we turn something that's become a recognized hate symbol 1052 00:57:45,921 --> 00:57:47,839 into a recognized love symbol? 1053 00:57:52,552 --> 00:57:54,596 It was really funny, but it was also really lovely. 1054 00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:56,306 1 tweeted about it. 1055 00:57:56,390 --> 00:57:57,724 I tried to help. 1056 00:57:57,808 --> 00:57:59,059 Yeah, I drew a Pepe. 1057 00:57:59,142 --> 00:58:02,479 Part of the Save Pepe campaign. 1058 00:58:02,562 --> 00:58:05,565 I'm like, damn, he's going through a situation that 1059 00:58:05,649 --> 00:58:08,068 isn't right, and I want to help him out. 1060 00:58:10,821 --> 00:58:12,698 Does that look like Pepe? 1061 00:58:12,781 --> 00:58:14,199 [LAUGHTER] 1062 00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:16,743 I've never drawn Pepe before, but I 1063 00:58:16,827 --> 00:58:18,996 figured I'm going to do whatever ll can to help 1064 00:58:19,079 --> 00:58:21,957 because I'm such a big fan. 1065 00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:26,878 So I'm butchering Pepe here, but something like that. 1066 00:58:26,962 --> 00:58:29,506 In Matt's work, I can feel his love 1067 00:58:29,589 --> 00:58:33,468 for nature and the universe. 1068 00:58:33,552 --> 00:58:35,762 I was like, oh, yeah, Matt's my buddy, and I like Pepe, 1069 00:58:35,846 --> 00:58:37,222 so I just-- 1070 00:58:37,305 --> 00:58:40,934 I made a peace frog Pepe. 1071 00:58:41,018 --> 00:58:42,769 Does that look like Pepe? 1072 00:58:42,853 --> 00:58:44,479 [LAUGHTER] 1073 00:58:44,563 --> 00:58:46,356 It's getting less and less like Pepe. 1074 00:58:50,110 --> 00:58:52,279 I've been working on it for about a month now. 1075 00:58:52,362 --> 00:58:57,492 I've gotten about 500 and counting brand-new peace Pepes. 1076 00:58:57,576 --> 00:59:01,329 My goal with this is to eventually start something 1077 00:59:01,413 --> 00:59:04,750 that I'd like to call the Peace Pepe Database of Love. 1078 00:59:08,086 --> 00:59:10,047 My whole thing is just to focus on positive 1079 00:59:10,130 --> 00:59:11,381 and just keep being creative. 1080 00:59:27,397 --> 00:59:31,818 The attempt by Matt Furie to wrest control over Pepe-- 1081 00:59:31,902 --> 00:59:34,112 it seems like he understands the internet about as well 1082 00:59:34,196 --> 00:59:35,864 as Hillary Clinton does. 1083 00:59:35,947 --> 00:59:38,742 Maybe if the original artwork wasn't 1084 00:59:38,825 --> 00:59:42,454 so pedestrian and basic that an eight-year-old can draw Pepe, 1085 00:59:42,537 --> 00:59:46,374 a scribbling that was improved upon by others, that was given 1086 00:59:46,458 --> 00:59:48,752 meaning that it never had before, 1087 00:59:48,835 --> 00:59:52,339 I would just encourage Matt to just 1088 00:59:52,422 --> 00:59:54,966 be glad to have been a small part of a very big thing. 1089 00:59:58,220 --> 01:00:00,097 Art is supposed to be therapeutic. 1090 01:00:00,180 --> 01:00:04,101 So before Trump got elected, I just 1091 01:00:04,184 --> 01:00:06,937 did this kind of nightmare scenario of Pepe 1092 01:00:07,020 --> 01:00:10,607 slowly morphing into Donald Trump and then into a monster, 1093 01:00:10,690 --> 01:00:13,443 and then being trapped inside the monster's mouth, 1094 01:00:13,527 --> 01:00:14,111 as you can see. 1095 01:00:14,152 --> 01:00:16,404 And then the threat of nuclear war. 1096 01:00:24,871 --> 01:00:28,250 This is the new American moment. 1097 01:00:28,333 --> 01:00:32,212 This is like Martin Luther King, "I Have a Dream" speech. 1098 01:00:32,295 --> 01:00:36,675 It's like Washington crossing the Delaware. 1099 01:00:36,758 --> 01:00:38,718 (SINGING) "We are the champions, my friend" 1100 01:00:46,226 --> 01:00:47,144 We were all ecstatic. 1101 01:00:51,022 --> 01:00:53,775 Donald Trump, he wasn't supposed to be there. 1102 01:00:53,859 --> 01:00:58,947 We all felt like the memeing had played a part in the election. 1103 01:00:59,030 --> 01:01:04,411 The internet's joke kind of came to fruition. 1104 01:01:04,494 --> 01:01:06,413 [MUSIC PLAYING] 1105 01:01:15,172 --> 01:01:18,175 The chaotic scene just blocks outside the secure area 1106 01:01:18,258 --> 01:01:20,552 of the inauguration and parade route. 1107 01:01:20,635 --> 01:01:22,387 Are you the hipster version of the neo-Nazi-- 1108 01:01:22,470 --> 01:01:22,929 What? 1109 01:01:22,971 --> 01:01:23,138 --Movement? 1110 01:01:23,180 --> 01:01:24,139 What is your little frog? 1111 01:01:24,222 --> 01:01:26,349 It's-- Pepe has become kind of a symbol-- 1112 01:01:47,913 --> 01:01:50,498 After the election, Matt just came to me 1113 01:01:50,582 --> 01:01:51,958 and he said, hey, I'm going to draw 1114 01:01:52,042 --> 01:01:55,503 a comic strip with Pepe in it, and I'm going to kill him. 1115 01:01:55,587 --> 01:01:59,090 The Pepe thing was so out of control at that point, 1116 01:01:59,174 --> 01:02:01,801 and whatever Pepe meant to all these other people 1117 01:02:01,885 --> 01:02:04,304 didn't mean the same thing to me. 1118 01:02:04,387 --> 01:02:07,974 So ll just killed him. 1119 01:02:08,058 --> 01:02:10,644 I just thought it'd be funny to do a comic strip where all 1120 01:02:10,727 --> 01:02:11,937 the boys are at his funeral. 1121 01:02:12,020 --> 01:02:12,896 [MUSIC PLAYING] 1122 01:02:12,979 --> 01:02:22,906 (SINGING) Your picture is still on my wall. 1123 01:02:25,951 --> 01:02:27,410 On my wall. 1124 01:02:30,914 --> 01:02:44,844 The colors are bright, bright as ever. 1125 01:02:48,348 --> 01:02:52,269 The red is strong. 1126 01:02:52,352 --> 01:02:57,232 The blue is pure. 1127 01:02:57,315 --> 01:03:02,237 Some things last a long time. 1128 01:03:06,283 --> 01:03:11,204 Some things last a long time. 1129 01:03:20,297 --> 01:03:23,800 I didn't think it would get noticed or anything. 1130 01:03:23,883 --> 01:03:26,177 I'm sure you recognize the cartoon character Pepe 1131 01:03:26,261 --> 01:03:26,720 the Frog. 1132 01:03:26,761 --> 01:03:28,596 Well, he won't be around for much longer 1133 01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:31,349 because his creator has decided to kill him off. 1134 01:03:31,433 --> 01:03:33,977 A cartoon frog died on the internet. 1135 01:03:34,060 --> 01:03:35,687 His name was Pepe. 1136 01:03:35,770 --> 01:03:38,815 It seemed like every time he drew Pepe, 1137 01:03:38,898 --> 01:03:40,692 he would get hounded by reporters. 1138 01:03:44,821 --> 01:03:46,406 He just hated it. 1139 01:03:52,746 --> 01:03:56,916 When I had first seen Matt's death of Pepe a comic, 1140 01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,170 I was honestly a bit sad. 1141 01:04:00,253 --> 01:04:02,756 But the Pepe we see on 4chan now has been so far 1142 01:04:02,839 --> 01:04:04,924 removed from the original that the Pepe 1143 01:04:05,008 --> 01:04:06,843 Matt was killing was his own. 1144 01:04:18,772 --> 01:04:21,274 The burden of this weird Pepe shit 1145 01:04:21,358 --> 01:04:24,903 was starting to make me feel anxious and weird. 1146 01:04:29,199 --> 01:04:31,826 Maybe it is whatever people say it is. 1147 01:04:31,910 --> 01:04:33,161 I can't control it. 1148 01:04:38,333 --> 01:04:38,917 [MUSIC PLAYING] 1149 01:04:38,958 --> 01:04:40,085 (SINGING) "... harnessing the power that's inside. 1150 01:04:40,168 --> 01:04:40,627 RARE PEPE!" 1151 01:04:54,182 --> 01:04:57,602 Owning a rare Pepe is about being alpha. 1152 01:04:57,685 --> 01:05:02,399 It's about having dank, rare Pepes nobody else has. 1153 01:05:02,482 --> 01:05:07,070 And it's about, how do we get to the moon in a Lambo? 1154 01:05:07,153 --> 01:05:10,156 OK, let's pull it up. 1155 01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:13,743 I'm in these crypto forums, and for the longest time, 1156 01:05:13,827 --> 01:05:17,539 these guys would talk about Pepe cash. 1157 01:05:17,622 --> 01:05:20,750 Some huge guys, like seven-, eight-figure portfolio crypto 1158 01:05:20,834 --> 01:05:21,876 guys. 1159 01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:23,294 And I look at the website, and I'm 1160 01:05:23,378 --> 01:05:26,256 like, what the fuck are they talking about? 1161 01:05:26,339 --> 01:05:26,965 What is it? 1162 01:05:31,553 --> 01:05:34,848 Sol actually am a Pepe cash millionaire. 1163 01:05:34,931 --> 01:05:36,099 How many million is that? 1164 01:05:36,182 --> 01:05:39,352 Is that $363 million? 1165 01:05:39,436 --> 01:05:45,150 $363 million internet Pepe, and ll like that. 1166 01:05:45,233 --> 01:05:47,068 This has been rechristened the SS Rare 1167 01:05:47,152 --> 01:05:52,532 Pepe, which I bought with Pepe cash, and now I live on it. 1168 01:05:52,615 --> 01:05:55,410 If you want to explain the rare Pepe economy, 1169 01:05:55,493 --> 01:05:59,456 imagine a few dozen geeks on the internet came up with a way 1170 01:05:59,539 --> 01:06:05,420 to trade memes off 4chan and lock them into ownership. 1171 01:06:05,503 --> 01:06:07,922 There's some Pepes that are in superhero knockoffs, 1172 01:06:08,006 --> 01:06:10,884 so Iron Man Pepes, Spiderman Pepes. 1173 01:06:10,967 --> 01:06:13,470 Some people's heroes are more political in nature. 1174 01:06:13,553 --> 01:06:16,973 Trump Pepe, which is awesome because he's make crypto great 1175 01:06:17,056 --> 01:06:20,477 again, whether you like it or not. 1176 01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:22,812 It's much different than comic books or even collectible 1177 01:06:22,896 --> 01:06:29,027 baseball cards because it exists as math on the internet first, 1178 01:06:29,110 --> 01:06:32,739 and then later you can print a physical copy of it. 1179 01:06:32,822 --> 01:06:33,865 This is a physical card. 1180 01:06:33,948 --> 01:06:35,450 This is worthless. 1181 01:06:35,533 --> 01:06:38,036 This is the thing that's worth hundreds of thousands 1182 01:06:38,119 --> 01:06:40,288 of dollars. 1183 01:06:40,371 --> 01:06:42,874 So I was going to this digital arts conference 1184 01:06:42,957 --> 01:06:46,878 called Rare AF, Rare As Fuck. 1185 01:06:46,961 --> 01:06:49,339 Luckily for me, they're having the world's 1186 01:06:49,422 --> 01:06:51,341 first rare Pepe auction. 1187 01:06:51,424 --> 01:06:55,303 Rare Pepe after rare Pepe after beautiful rare Pepe passing by, 1188 01:06:55,386 --> 01:06:57,180 and then finally gets to the end. 1189 01:06:57,263 --> 01:07:00,391 It's the ultimate rare Pepe, the Homer Pepe. 1190 01:07:03,228 --> 01:07:04,729 And I'm like, I'm getting this thing. 1191 01:07:04,812 --> 01:07:05,730 Selling for 200. 1192 01:07:05,813 --> 01:07:06,272 Homer. 1193 01:07:06,314 --> 01:07:07,232 200. 1194 01:07:07,315 --> 01:07:08,525 People start placing bids-- 1195 01:07:08,608 --> 01:07:11,319 20,000, 30,000, 40,000 100,000 Pepe cash. 1196 01:07:11,402 --> 01:07:12,612 200,000 Pepe cash. 1197 01:07:12,695 --> 01:07:13,613 75. 1198 01:07:13,696 --> 01:07:14,280 270. 1199 01:07:14,322 --> 01:07:16,074 It starts getting so crazy, and it 1200 01:07:16,157 --> 01:07:21,663 gets to 350,000 Pepe cash, which is about $39,000 US. 1201 01:07:21,746 --> 01:07:25,208 350 going once, going twice. 1202 01:07:25,291 --> 01:07:26,167 Sold. 1203 01:07:26,251 --> 01:07:28,002 [CHEERING] 1204 01:07:28,086 --> 01:07:32,465 What inspired you to pay $39,000 US for a rare Pepe? 1205 01:07:32,549 --> 01:07:34,092 I was really excited about Pepe. 1206 01:07:34,175 --> 01:07:36,219 OK. 1207 01:07:36,302 --> 01:07:41,266 So this is Homer Pepe, currently the world's most valuable 1208 01:07:41,349 --> 01:07:43,476 rare Pepe. 1209 01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:46,938 Now, what makes this Pepe worth so much, 1210 01:07:47,021 --> 01:07:49,357 it's the only one with a misprint. 1211 01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:50,650 Wait a minute. 1212 01:07:50,733 --> 01:07:52,151 Wait a mint. 1213 01:07:52,235 --> 01:07:53,444 Wait a mint. 1214 01:07:53,528 --> 01:07:54,153 That's value. 1215 01:07:57,156 --> 01:07:59,075 [MUSIC PLAYING] 1216 01:08:00,076 --> 01:08:03,580 (SINGING) I will Lambo across the land, 1217 01:08:03,663 --> 01:08:07,166 searching far and wide. 1218 01:08:07,250 --> 01:08:12,547 Each rare Pepe to understand the power that's inside. 1219 01:08:12,630 --> 01:08:13,590 Rare Pepe! 1220 01:08:25,852 --> 01:08:27,812 You're Matt, right? 1221 01:08:27,895 --> 01:08:30,315 Thank you for creating our whole line of work. 1222 01:08:30,398 --> 01:08:32,150 You have gainfully employed all of us. 1223 01:08:32,233 --> 01:08:34,193 [LAUGHTER] 1224 01:08:35,737 --> 01:08:38,114 So what are you guys talking about? 1225 01:08:38,197 --> 01:08:42,869 We're all working the general realm of weird online behavior 1226 01:08:42,952 --> 01:08:44,412 from a scientific perspective. 1227 01:08:44,495 --> 01:08:47,123 We have security people from the US. 1228 01:08:47,206 --> 01:08:49,584 We have cryptographers from the UK. 1229 01:08:49,667 --> 01:08:52,253 We have systems people from mainland Europe. 1230 01:08:52,337 --> 01:08:54,422 And we take a large scale analysis of data, 1231 01:08:54,505 --> 01:08:56,966 getting a quantitative understanding of hate speech 1232 01:08:57,050 --> 01:08:57,800 throughout the web. 1233 01:08:57,842 --> 01:08:59,469 This is [INAUDIBLE] 1234 01:08:59,552 --> 01:09:02,013 We had to figure out a way to be able to measure 1235 01:09:02,096 --> 01:09:03,765 this stuff at large scale, and we ended up 1236 01:09:03,848 --> 01:09:07,685 building a system to measure memes. 1237 01:09:07,769 --> 01:09:09,729 Just to give you an idea of the scale, Matt, 1238 01:09:09,812 --> 01:09:13,941 so we had over a billion posts from Twitter, Reddit, 1239 01:09:14,025 --> 01:09:15,109 Ipol/ and Gab. 1240 01:09:15,193 --> 01:09:18,237 And we examined 160 million some odd images. 1241 01:09:18,321 --> 01:09:19,906 So obviously, these weren't all Pepes, 1242 01:09:19,989 --> 01:09:22,533 but the scale of this data is huge. 1243 01:09:22,617 --> 01:09:23,701 This was only for a year. 1244 01:09:23,785 --> 01:09:24,535 Interesting. 1245 01:09:24,577 --> 01:09:26,579 There's a variety of different memes, 1246 01:09:26,663 --> 01:09:30,541 but there tends to be a Pepe variant in every single one 1247 01:09:30,625 --> 01:09:31,334 of these clusters. 1248 01:09:31,376 --> 01:09:35,296 So you pick a random meme, and Pepe has been inserted into it 1249 01:09:35,380 --> 01:09:37,840 in some way, shape, or form. 1250 01:09:37,924 --> 01:09:39,884 In a lot of ways, Pepe becomes an entry point 1251 01:09:39,967 --> 01:09:41,636 to radicalization. 1252 01:09:41,719 --> 01:09:43,930 That's a very scary thing to think about. 1253 01:09:44,013 --> 01:09:46,516 Do you feel any personal responsibility 1254 01:09:46,599 --> 01:09:50,603 for the bad stuff that has come out of this? 1255 01:09:50,687 --> 01:09:52,355 You shouldn't, but we're humans. 1256 01:09:52,438 --> 01:09:54,816 We feel guilt for things that we shouldn't feel guilt for. 1257 01:09:58,194 --> 01:10:00,321 Maybe I could have been more proactive earlier 1258 01:10:00,405 --> 01:10:01,989 on to try to control it. 1259 01:10:02,073 --> 01:10:04,283 To the question of, can you get Pepe back, 1260 01:10:04,367 --> 01:10:08,454 the reality is that there's 160 million memes, essentially, 1261 01:10:08,538 --> 01:10:09,997 in a year that we collected. 1262 01:10:10,081 --> 01:10:12,792 Not all Pepes, again, but a good chunk of them are. 1263 01:10:12,875 --> 01:10:15,962 That's tough genie to put back in the bottle. 1264 01:10:16,045 --> 01:10:17,004 1 wish you luck. 1265 01:10:17,088 --> 01:10:19,507 I do, sincerely. 1266 01:10:23,344 --> 01:10:27,515 Sol try to stay positive. 1267 01:10:27,598 --> 01:10:31,811 But to be honest, I've gotten trolled. 1268 01:10:31,894 --> 01:10:33,104 Somebody sent me this. 1269 01:10:33,187 --> 01:10:36,274 I don't take it personally, even though I'm 1270 01:10:36,357 --> 01:10:38,860 having my head decapitated. 1271 01:10:38,943 --> 01:10:40,528 It is what it is. 1272 01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:48,911 It's not only wearing on my spirit, 1273 01:10:48,995 --> 01:10:51,205 but it's wearing on my drive to be creative. 1274 01:10:54,459 --> 01:11:01,174 It did manifest anxieties that I have yet to unravel. 1275 01:11:01,257 --> 01:11:06,095 He just slept a lot and, honestly, it 1276 01:11:06,179 --> 01:11:09,640 was hard to talk to him. 1277 01:11:09,724 --> 01:11:12,018 I let them know I was there for him and all that, 1278 01:11:12,101 --> 01:11:17,940 but there wasn't anything anyone could really do. 1279 01:11:18,024 --> 01:11:19,984 Tonight, a Denton ISD assistant principal 1280 01:11:20,067 --> 01:11:23,404 is coming under fire for writing a new children's book, 1281 01:11:23,488 --> 01:11:25,782 a book some say is politically motivated. 1282 01:11:25,865 --> 01:11:28,576 I'm using Pepe just as a lighthearted way of expressing 1283 01:11:28,659 --> 01:11:32,413 maybe some conservative values. 1284 01:11:32,497 --> 01:11:34,415 If you love America, you're going 1285 01:11:34,499 --> 01:11:35,583 to love this book for sure. 1286 01:11:39,670 --> 01:11:43,007 When Matt found out that there was a Islamophobic 1287 01:11:43,090 --> 01:11:49,847 racist children's book starring Pepe coming out on Amazon, 1288 01:11:49,931 --> 01:11:52,892 he was so upset. 1289 01:11:52,975 --> 01:11:57,438 And that's when he kind of freaked out about it. 1290 01:11:57,522 --> 01:11:58,606 It was like the last straw. 1291 01:12:01,609 --> 01:12:05,112 It's like hell, man. 1292 01:12:05,196 --> 01:12:08,366 If you want to escape hell, you can't ignore it. 1293 01:12:08,449 --> 01:12:10,284 You almost have to go to the center of it. 1294 01:12:20,711 --> 01:12:24,715 It is not very often that nerdy intellectual property lawyers 1295 01:12:24,799 --> 01:12:27,260 get asked to fight the alt-right. 1296 01:12:27,343 --> 01:12:29,178 But when we do, we're ready. 1297 01:12:33,516 --> 01:12:36,352 I have a whole team of lawyers that are working with me pro 1298 01:12:36,435 --> 01:12:38,855 bono and have really empowered me 1299 01:12:38,938 --> 01:12:42,066 to feel like I do have some say in all this. 1300 01:12:45,111 --> 01:12:48,823 He really wanted to prevent the digital release of the book. 1301 01:12:48,906 --> 01:12:51,993 He saw it was in fact a not so veiled reference 1302 01:12:52,076 --> 01:12:55,246 to a lot of alt-right themes. 1303 01:12:55,329 --> 01:12:56,873 We found out who was publishing it 1304 01:12:56,956 --> 01:13:01,085 and explained that Matt Furie own the copyright to Pepe 1305 01:13:01,168 --> 01:13:04,755 and that we were prepared to enforce his rights in court. 1306 01:13:04,839 --> 01:13:07,466 The Adventures of Pepe and Pete, the electronic version 1307 01:13:07,550 --> 01:13:09,969 was never published. 1308 01:13:10,052 --> 01:13:14,056 But the issue here is, when you shut down one person, 1309 01:13:14,140 --> 01:13:14,932 others pop up. 1310 01:13:19,061 --> 01:13:22,231 I'm a compassionate guy, and I'm a sensitive guy. 1311 01:13:22,315 --> 01:13:24,817 But being able to work with a team of lawyers 1312 01:13:24,901 --> 01:13:31,365 has given me strength to shut these assholes up. 1313 01:13:31,449 --> 01:13:32,617 You've been sued by frog, bro. 1314 01:13:32,700 --> 01:13:33,701 Do you even know this yet? 1315 01:13:33,784 --> 01:13:34,243 No. 1316 01:13:34,285 --> 01:13:34,869 It's all over-- 1317 01:13:34,911 --> 01:13:35,202 Surprise. 1318 01:13:35,244 --> 01:13:35,620 --The internet. 1319 01:13:35,661 --> 01:13:36,203 Surprise, motherfucker. 1320 01:13:36,245 --> 01:13:37,121 You got sued by a frog. 1321 01:13:37,204 --> 01:13:39,040 You've been sued by a fucking frog, dude, 1322 01:13:39,123 --> 01:13:42,209 a conspiracy frog named Pepe. 1323 01:13:42,293 --> 01:13:45,338 We did sell a poster that a listener made 1324 01:13:45,421 --> 01:13:47,173 titled Make America Great Again that 1325 01:13:47,256 --> 01:13:49,050 had a bunch of images of symbols that were 1326 01:13:49,133 --> 01:13:51,385 popular during the campaign. 1327 01:13:51,469 --> 01:13:54,221 We talked to our trademark lawyers, and they said, 1328 01:13:54,305 --> 01:13:57,892 Mr. Jones, this is so outrageous against the First Amendment. 1329 01:13:57,975 --> 01:14:00,645 It is insane. 1330 01:14:00,728 --> 01:14:05,024 This is cockamamie balderdash. 1331 01:14:05,107 --> 01:14:06,651 He was selling a poster with Pepe on it 1332 01:14:06,734 --> 01:14:08,277 with a bunch of douche bags, and I just 1333 01:14:08,361 --> 01:14:09,737 didn't want him to sell the poster. 1334 01:14:09,820 --> 01:14:13,324 The problem isn't the drawing or making of the art. 1335 01:14:13,407 --> 01:14:14,325 You can do that. 1336 01:14:14,408 --> 01:14:17,620 It's just when you mass produce it and sell it. 1337 01:14:17,703 --> 01:14:20,623 That's when it gets into a stickier area. 1338 01:14:20,706 --> 01:14:23,167 He's like, yeah, the man's going to stop us. 1339 01:14:23,250 --> 01:14:26,921 He just jacked up the price of the poster 1340 01:14:27,004 --> 01:14:28,506 and then offered to sign them. 1341 01:14:28,589 --> 01:14:30,383 I'm trying to free Pepe the Frog. 1342 01:14:30,466 --> 01:14:32,051 And I'm either going to succeed, or I'll 1343 01:14:32,134 --> 01:14:33,219 be destroyed in the process. 1344 01:14:33,302 --> 01:14:35,680 But that's OK. 1345 01:14:35,763 --> 01:14:38,766 I actually don't know many people on here. 1346 01:14:38,849 --> 01:14:39,725 Is that Trump too? 1347 01:14:39,809 --> 01:14:39,892 Yeah. 1348 01:14:39,934 --> 01:14:40,559 There's two Trumps. 1349 01:14:40,601 --> 01:14:42,228 So it's like having two Trumps in the same poster? 1350 01:14:42,311 --> 01:14:42,853 Is that legal? 1351 01:14:45,690 --> 01:14:48,943 Well, there's going to be Joe Armstrong from Green Day. 1352 01:14:49,026 --> 01:14:50,611 And there's Marsha from The Brady Bunch. 1353 01:14:50,695 --> 01:14:52,279 There's Billy Idol. 1354 01:14:52,363 --> 01:14:53,239 Billy Idol. 1355 01:14:53,322 --> 01:14:55,449 And there is Courtney Love. 1356 01:14:55,533 --> 01:14:57,410 [LAUGHTER] 1357 01:15:00,287 --> 01:15:03,040 A lot of times, I'm cutting people's hair for court 1358 01:15:03,124 --> 01:15:04,583 where they're in trouble. 1359 01:15:04,667 --> 01:15:05,543 Yeah, I'm not in too-- 1360 01:15:05,626 --> 01:15:06,544 I'm not in any trouble. 1361 01:15:06,627 --> 01:15:10,089 It's all just weird situations. 1362 01:15:10,172 --> 01:15:15,094 Yeah, about this notorious character named Pepe the Frog. 1363 01:15:15,177 --> 01:15:16,262 Have you ever heard of it? 1364 01:15:16,345 --> 01:15:17,179 Yeah, I actually have. 1365 01:15:17,263 --> 01:15:18,014 My kids have too. 1366 01:15:18,055 --> 01:15:18,806 Oh, Yeah? 1367 01:15:18,848 --> 01:15:20,516 This the guy, Pepe? 1368 01:15:20,599 --> 01:15:23,019 Yeah, that guy right there. 1369 01:15:23,102 --> 01:15:25,563 So the guy Matt, do you know him? 1370 01:15:25,646 --> 01:15:26,439 That's me. 1371 01:15:26,522 --> 01:15:27,982 That who you got to go to court with? 1372 01:15:28,065 --> 01:15:28,649 Oh, no, no, no. 1373 01:15:28,691 --> 01:15:29,108 That's me. 1374 01:15:29,150 --> 01:15:29,608 1 am Matt. 1375 01:15:29,650 --> 01:15:30,443 Oh, you're Matt. 1376 01:15:30,484 --> 01:15:32,111 Yeah. 1377 01:15:32,194 --> 01:15:32,653 Oh. 1378 01:15:35,406 --> 01:15:38,534 I don't know what this guy's doing, this Furie fellow. 1379 01:15:38,617 --> 01:15:43,372 But I've agreed to be deposed for the Pepe the Frog deal. 1380 01:15:43,456 --> 01:15:45,416 Sir, would you raise your right hand to be sworn? 1381 01:15:45,499 --> 01:15:46,542 Do you solemnly state the testimony 1382 01:15:46,625 --> 01:15:48,377 you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, 1383 01:15:48,461 --> 01:15:49,128 and nothing but the truth? 1384 01:15:49,170 --> 01:15:49,628 1 do. 1385 01:15:54,091 --> 01:15:55,009 I don't like the frog. 1386 01:15:55,092 --> 01:15:56,427 I don't like this whole thing. 1387 01:15:56,510 --> 01:15:59,889 But I've got to stand up for the First Amendment. 1388 01:15:59,972 --> 01:16:04,101 Let's say this frog is triggering for me now. 1389 01:16:04,185 --> 01:16:05,478 1 hate Pepe. 1390 01:16:05,561 --> 01:16:08,397 Videotaped deposition of Matt Furie in the matter 1391 01:16:08,481 --> 01:16:13,694 of Matt Furie versus Infowars and Free Speech LLC. 1392 01:16:13,778 --> 01:16:19,158 So from 2001 to 2007, you had this carefree, part-time, 1393 01:16:19,241 --> 01:16:21,660 knucklehead life. 1394 01:16:21,744 --> 01:16:23,996 1 still have that. 1395 01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:25,414 Excellent. 1396 01:16:25,498 --> 01:16:29,001 What did you do to prepare for today's deposition? 1397 01:16:29,085 --> 01:16:30,753 Really nothing. 1398 01:16:30,836 --> 01:16:34,006 So how did you pick the name Pepe the Frog? 1399 01:16:34,090 --> 01:16:37,843 It sounded like pee-pee. 1400 01:16:37,927 --> 01:16:39,386 To go pee-pee. 1401 01:16:39,470 --> 01:16:41,055 So it is a cartoon frog, right? 1402 01:16:41,138 --> 01:16:42,098 Yes, it's a cartoon frog. 1403 01:16:42,181 --> 01:16:45,726 It has round lips, right? 1404 01:16:45,810 --> 01:16:48,437 1 wouldn't call it round lips. 1405 01:16:48,521 --> 01:16:49,563 More tubular. 1406 01:16:49,647 --> 01:16:50,648 Tubular lips. 1407 01:16:50,731 --> 01:16:53,818 1 thought ll had some Kind of zen-like grip. 1408 01:16:53,901 --> 01:16:56,153 He kind of did a good cop, bad cop thing on me. 1409 01:16:56,237 --> 01:16:59,031 He was like, so you like Beavis and Butthead? 1410 01:16:59,115 --> 01:17:00,491 Do you watch Ren and Stimpy? 1411 01:17:00,574 --> 01:17:01,367 Yes. 1412 01:17:01,408 --> 01:17:05,037 But then he was like, let's get him. 1413 01:17:05,121 --> 01:17:06,413 49, 1414 01:17:06,497 --> 01:17:07,498 This is a fun one. 1415 01:17:11,335 --> 01:17:11,961 Hold that up. 1416 01:17:12,002 --> 01:17:14,755 Tell us what's 49. 1417 01:17:14,839 --> 01:17:17,424 It's an allegory on the direction nature's 1418 01:17:17,508 --> 01:17:20,010 going from my perspective. 1419 01:17:20,094 --> 01:17:22,263 Excuse me, the second to last page, page 20. 1420 01:17:22,346 --> 01:17:22,805 Sorry. 1421 01:17:22,847 --> 01:17:25,558 I worked out this morning. 1422 01:17:25,641 --> 01:17:27,685 It's just coincidental that they look alike? 1423 01:17:27,768 --> 01:17:28,727 Absolutely. 1424 01:17:28,811 --> 01:17:33,232 An original character that's based on a hot dog man. 1425 01:17:33,315 --> 01:17:35,151 Part man, part hot dog. 1426 01:17:35,234 --> 01:17:36,735 It's clear what all this is, so people 1427 01:17:36,819 --> 01:17:39,029 can say Jones is using a white supremacist symbol, 1428 01:17:39,113 --> 01:17:39,697 when it's not. 1429 01:17:39,738 --> 01:17:41,699 And it's a way of saying I'm a white supremacist. 1430 01:17:41,782 --> 01:17:45,661 So it's a way of defaming me and acting like I stole something 1431 01:17:45,744 --> 01:17:46,537 all at the same time. 1432 01:17:46,620 --> 01:17:49,874 It's just-- God-- evil. 1433 01:17:49,957 --> 01:17:51,500 That is just evil. 1434 01:17:51,584 --> 01:17:53,377 Is that Big Bird? 1435 01:17:53,460 --> 01:17:54,253 Yes. 1436 01:17:54,336 --> 01:17:56,130 31 is not Grimace? 1437 01:17:56,213 --> 01:17:56,881 No. 1438 01:17:56,922 --> 01:17:59,800 So those aren't derivations of the Hamburgler? 1439 01:17:59,884 --> 01:18:00,801 Oh, these guys? 1440 01:18:00,885 --> 01:18:01,844 Yes. 1441 01:18:01,927 --> 01:18:04,597 Do you mean Mayor McCheese? 1442 01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:07,391 And you got no license to put that up? 1443 01:18:07,474 --> 01:18:10,644 When I was in sixth grade, 1 did not obtain a license 1444 01:18:10,728 --> 01:18:13,981 to draw this, no. 1445 01:18:14,064 --> 01:18:15,482 1 went to the bathroom at one point, 1446 01:18:15,566 --> 01:18:17,026 and he's taking a piss too. 1447 01:18:17,109 --> 01:18:19,278 And he's like, so I guess this is 1448 01:18:19,361 --> 01:18:20,821 where all the dicks hang out. 1449 01:18:20,905 --> 01:18:23,324 And I was like, ha-ha, that's funny. 1450 01:18:23,407 --> 01:18:25,075 So awkward that I got my dick in my hand 1451 01:18:25,159 --> 01:18:26,619 and we're talking right now. 1452 01:18:26,702 --> 01:18:28,037 And then, shortly after that, he's 1453 01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:29,622 just fucking screaming at me. 1454 01:18:29,705 --> 01:18:33,626 We're suing Alex Jones because he-- 1455 01:18:33,709 --> 01:18:36,045 That's not the question I asked. 1456 01:18:36,128 --> 01:18:37,963 Answer the question I asked you. 1457 01:18:38,047 --> 01:18:41,091 It twisted my noodles for a while. 1458 01:18:41,175 --> 01:18:44,553 And I-- you know when you say something 1459 01:18:44,637 --> 01:18:46,138 in passing to somebody else, and it's 1460 01:18:46,222 --> 01:18:48,974 like you wish you would've said something else. 1461 01:18:49,058 --> 01:18:53,187 This was like four hours of concentrated me wishing I 1462 01:18:53,270 --> 01:18:55,606 would have said something else. 1463 01:18:55,689 --> 01:18:57,608 It's not a comfortable situation, dude. 1464 01:18:57,691 --> 01:18:58,317 It sucked. 1465 01:18:58,359 --> 01:19:00,819 It was hard. 1466 01:19:00,903 --> 01:19:04,406 From my point of view, this is a direct copy. 1467 01:19:04,490 --> 01:19:07,159 So all of your references before are just references, 1468 01:19:07,243 --> 01:19:09,370 but this one is, what, traced, you mean? 1469 01:19:09,453 --> 01:19:10,454 Yeah. 1470 01:19:10,537 --> 01:19:13,999 Why do you suppose Pepe looks happy in that picture? 1471 01:19:14,083 --> 01:19:15,459 Pepe's like a mirror. 1472 01:19:15,542 --> 01:19:19,088 So the way that users online would use Pepe 1473 01:19:19,171 --> 01:19:22,841 is a reflection of themselves, to an extent. 1474 01:19:22,925 --> 01:19:28,097 That's my interpretation of it. 1475 01:19:28,180 --> 01:19:29,098 No further questions. 1476 01:19:29,181 --> 01:19:30,307 And nothing else here either. 1477 01:19:30,391 --> 01:19:31,183 Thank you for your time. 1478 01:19:31,267 --> 01:19:33,185 This marks the end of the videotaped deposition 1479 01:19:33,269 --> 01:19:34,103 of Alex Jones. 1480 01:19:34,186 --> 01:19:34,645 Good luck. 1481 01:19:34,687 --> 01:19:37,940 We're going off the record, and the time is 13 even. 1482 01:19:42,111 --> 01:19:43,737 Let's try to find a little round-- 1483 01:19:43,821 --> 01:19:44,280 Oh. 1484 01:19:44,321 --> 01:19:46,115 Oh, there it is. 1485 01:19:46,198 --> 01:19:46,657 There. 1486 01:19:46,699 --> 01:19:48,367 So we need two dark green ones. 1487 01:19:48,450 --> 01:19:48,909 OK. 1488 01:19:51,620 --> 01:19:54,623 It took me weeks to de-tangle my mind 1489 01:19:54,707 --> 01:19:56,709 after all this legal stuff. 1490 01:19:56,792 --> 01:19:58,002 And put that in the [INAUDIBLE] 1491 01:19:58,085 --> 01:19:59,962 But that's why I signed up for. 1492 01:20:00,045 --> 01:20:01,380 It's not going to be easy, but I'm 1493 01:20:01,463 --> 01:20:03,757 willing to go the distance with this shit. 1494 01:20:07,845 --> 01:20:08,429 [MUSIC PLAYING] 1495 01:20:08,470 --> 01:20:09,888 (SINGING) Pepe, Pepe come here. 1496 01:20:09,972 --> 01:20:12,474 And he hops and hops. 1497 01:20:12,558 --> 01:20:16,353 Pepe watch out and he hops and hops. 1498 01:20:16,437 --> 01:20:17,938 Pepe, please stop. 1499 01:20:18,022 --> 01:20:20,149 And he hops and hops. 1500 01:20:20,232 --> 01:20:22,276 You make me dizzy. 1501 01:20:22,359 --> 01:20:23,652 You make me dizzy. 1502 01:20:23,736 --> 01:20:25,362 I say, Pepe come here. 1503 01:20:25,446 --> 01:20:25,904 Yeah. 1504 01:20:25,946 --> 01:20:27,865 (SINGING) And he hops and hops. 1505 01:20:27,948 --> 01:20:30,326 Pepe [INAUDIBLE] 1506 01:20:30,409 --> 01:20:32,369 [LAUGHTER] 1507 01:20:36,874 --> 01:20:39,418 Everybody's saying congratulations. 1508 01:20:39,501 --> 01:20:42,463 A sparkle of good news in these troubling times. 1509 01:20:49,511 --> 01:20:51,055 This was actually going to trial, 1510 01:20:51,138 --> 01:20:53,015 and then Louis was just like, oh, surprisingly, 1511 01:20:53,098 --> 01:20:55,100 they want to settle. 1512 01:20:55,184 --> 01:20:57,644 We were confident we were going to prevail at trial, 1513 01:20:57,728 --> 01:21:00,898 and Infowars gave up. 1514 01:21:00,981 --> 01:21:03,192 It just went live on Infowars.com. 1515 01:21:03,275 --> 01:21:05,486 Infowars settles Pepe the Frog lawsuit. 1516 01:21:05,569 --> 01:21:08,989 Pays tiny settlement to creator Matt Furie. 1517 01:21:09,073 --> 01:21:12,618 This amount, that's a bar tab at a topless club for one 1518 01:21:12,701 --> 01:21:13,243 good night. 1519 01:21:13,285 --> 01:21:14,995 So what the heck. 1520 01:21:15,079 --> 01:21:17,956 This is more than I've ever made on the Boy's Club comic book. 1521 01:21:18,040 --> 01:21:20,667 So it just-- to put it into context, 1522 01:21:20,751 --> 01:21:25,130 Alex Jones is like, we got away with barely paying anything, 1523 01:21:25,214 --> 01:21:26,882 but it's all relative. 1524 01:21:26,965 --> 01:21:29,176 This is a big deal to show what these bullies are up to 1525 01:21:29,259 --> 01:21:30,969 and what happens when you stand up to them. 1526 01:21:31,053 --> 01:21:33,680 You are the resistance. 1527 01:21:33,764 --> 01:21:36,016 At the end of the day, he's just selling 1528 01:21:36,100 --> 01:21:39,937 a bunch of bad ideas, bad supplements, 1529 01:21:40,020 --> 01:21:42,106 and a bad attitude. 1530 01:21:42,189 --> 01:21:44,108 It's just a business. 1531 01:21:44,191 --> 01:21:46,151 Without you buying the videos and the books 1532 01:21:46,235 --> 01:21:48,278 and the supplements, we couldn't put 1533 01:21:48,362 --> 01:21:53,283 on one hell of a junkyard dog fight against these bastards. 1534 01:21:53,367 --> 01:21:56,203 This case against Infowars was the latest 1535 01:21:56,286 --> 01:21:57,871 in a string of successes. 1536 01:21:57,955 --> 01:21:59,915 We went after Richard Spencer. 1537 01:21:59,998 --> 01:22:02,084 We went after Baked Alaska. 1538 01:22:02,167 --> 01:22:05,963 We went after The Daily Stormer, the neo-Nazi website. 1539 01:22:06,046 --> 01:22:09,341 We have successfully enforced Matt's copyrights in Pepe 1540 01:22:09,425 --> 01:22:12,928 against somewhere between 75 and 100 different entities 1541 01:22:13,011 --> 01:22:16,723 in connection with images or language of hate. 1542 01:22:16,807 --> 01:22:19,810 And this is beginning to turn the narrative of Pepe 1543 01:22:19,893 --> 01:22:20,602 back around. 1544 01:22:31,238 --> 01:22:35,617 These guys are kind of messing with reality, 1545 01:22:35,701 --> 01:22:39,705 amplifying negativity or normalizing negativity. 1546 01:22:39,788 --> 01:22:42,166 I'm doing everything I can in my power 1547 01:22:42,249 --> 01:22:44,710 to change the course of this thing. 1548 01:22:44,793 --> 01:22:47,796 And I think removing Pepe from the hate symbol list, 1549 01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:50,966 it would be a win for peace. 1550 01:22:59,683 --> 01:23:01,852 With all these legal steps that I'm taking, 1551 01:23:01,935 --> 01:23:03,896 everything that I've been doing up until now, 1552 01:23:03,979 --> 01:23:07,191 my goal was to get it off the hate symbol database. 1553 01:23:07,274 --> 01:23:08,484 To me, it's not a symbol. 1554 01:23:08,567 --> 01:23:10,152 It's a character. 1555 01:23:10,235 --> 01:23:13,405 It's the character, but he's adorned with different symbols. 1556 01:23:13,489 --> 01:23:16,492 And they're pretty extreme stuff. 1557 01:23:16,575 --> 01:23:18,076 Yeah, it's tough. 1558 01:23:18,160 --> 01:23:20,120 Having it on the hate symbols database 1559 01:23:20,204 --> 01:23:21,914 we have found to be really useful for those 1560 01:23:21,997 --> 01:23:24,958 who are trying to understand this barrage of symbols that 1561 01:23:25,042 --> 01:23:28,837 is being thrown at them, whether it's a frog, a meme, or a hand 1562 01:23:28,921 --> 01:23:30,172 gesture. 1563 01:23:30,255 --> 01:23:31,256 It's complicated. 1564 01:23:31,340 --> 01:23:33,634 Well yeah, it is complicated, because I think with Pepe 1565 01:23:33,717 --> 01:23:36,345 on the list, it's seen more as a win 1566 01:23:36,428 --> 01:23:39,473 for the so-called alt-right or these others 1567 01:23:39,556 --> 01:23:42,017 because now they have that symbol. 1568 01:23:42,100 --> 01:23:44,269 And this is going to be a lifelong journey for me, 1569 01:23:44,353 --> 01:23:46,480 because I'm going to be entangled with this character 1570 01:23:46,563 --> 01:23:47,064 forever. 1571 01:23:47,105 --> 01:23:49,274 But what would be the impact of removing it? 1572 01:23:49,358 --> 01:23:51,235 Most of these people are creating these images, 1573 01:23:51,318 --> 01:23:53,862 and they're going to keep churning these things out. 1574 01:23:53,946 --> 01:23:56,698 Your bottom line request, it's really not 1575 01:23:56,782 --> 01:23:57,908 going to solve the issue. 1576 01:23:57,991 --> 01:24:01,370 It's not about this cartoon being on the hate symbols. 1577 01:24:01,453 --> 01:24:02,079 And it sucks. 1578 01:24:05,415 --> 01:24:06,166 All right, man. 1579 01:24:06,208 --> 01:24:06,708 Thanks a lot. 1580 01:24:06,750 --> 01:24:07,376 Yeah, thank you. 1581 01:24:07,417 --> 01:24:07,876 Good luck. 1582 01:24:20,430 --> 01:24:25,686 I don't want the narrative to be that I'm victimized here. 1583 01:24:25,769 --> 01:24:30,774 People have to deal with horror on a daily level. 1584 01:24:30,857 --> 01:24:32,776 Let's work together. 1585 01:24:32,859 --> 01:24:39,575 Let's figure this shit out, because it's not 1586 01:24:39,658 --> 01:24:40,409 getting any better. 1587 01:24:43,620 --> 01:24:45,998 All of the accounts of what happened to me and my family 1588 01:24:46,081 --> 01:24:48,625 over the years are enormous in scale 1589 01:24:48,709 --> 01:24:51,128 and historically rooted in the legacy of white supremacy. 1590 01:24:51,211 --> 01:24:56,258 (SINGING) This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine. 1591 01:24:56,341 --> 01:24:57,509 Why are you being provocative? 1592 01:24:57,593 --> 01:24:58,510 I like trolling people. 1593 01:24:58,594 --> 01:24:59,970 It's fun. 1594 01:25:00,053 --> 01:25:00,804 You do it for fun? 1595 01:25:00,846 --> 01:25:01,305 Yeah. 1596 01:25:01,346 --> 01:25:02,389 It's fun. 1597 01:25:02,472 --> 01:25:05,225 The aesthetics and ideals that extremists 1598 01:25:05,309 --> 01:25:08,478 are promoting online with their use of Pepe the Frog 1599 01:25:08,562 --> 01:25:12,024 are now bleeding completely into what you would otherwise 1600 01:25:12,107 --> 01:25:13,191 describe as regular people. 1601 01:25:13,275 --> 01:25:14,359 Yeah, go ahead and video me. 1602 01:25:14,443 --> 01:25:16,445 I'll be doing it too, motherfucker. 1603 01:25:16,528 --> 01:25:18,363 You know what's coming to you people, right? 1604 01:25:18,447 --> 01:25:21,116 You know Trump is just the beginning. 1605 01:25:21,199 --> 01:25:25,829 You bearded monkeys have no place in America. 1606 01:25:25,912 --> 01:25:29,124 The ideology is premised on justifying violence 1607 01:25:29,207 --> 01:25:30,834 towards vulnerable people. 1608 01:25:30,917 --> 01:25:32,210 USA! 1609 01:25:32,294 --> 01:25:33,170 USA! 1610 01:25:33,253 --> 01:25:34,171 USA! 1611 01:25:34,254 --> 01:25:38,091 When that seeps into the beliefs of regular Americans, 1612 01:25:38,175 --> 01:25:40,344 you're heading for some place very bad. 1613 01:25:50,687 --> 01:25:52,397 You can't put the genie back in the bottle, 1614 01:25:52,481 --> 01:25:56,443 but you can send it somewhere else. 1615 01:25:56,526 --> 01:25:58,695 To actually change the narrative, 1616 01:25:58,779 --> 01:26:01,907 it would be necessary to take the frog, 1617 01:26:01,990 --> 01:26:04,701 to take Pepe, and do something very 1618 01:26:04,785 --> 01:26:08,330 different with him, something that could 1619 01:26:08,413 --> 01:26:10,957 develop a meme of its own. 1620 01:26:15,921 --> 01:26:17,839 [NON-ENGLISH CHANTING] 1621 01:26:27,683 --> 01:26:29,643 Suddenly, out of nowhere, Pepe is 1622 01:26:29,726 --> 01:26:33,188 being used in Hong Kong as a symbol of freedom, democracy, 1623 01:26:33,271 --> 01:26:35,107 and youth protest. 1624 01:26:35,190 --> 01:26:36,566 I was surprised as much as anyone. 1625 01:26:42,280 --> 01:26:44,408 This is the newer version of him. 1626 01:26:44,491 --> 01:26:46,326 He's wearing a hard hat, and he's wearing 1627 01:26:46,410 --> 01:26:48,578 the outfit of the protesters. 1628 01:26:48,662 --> 01:26:51,206 This is a way to resist authoritarianism. 1629 01:26:57,838 --> 01:27:01,383 Oh, he crying from the tear gas. 1630 01:27:01,466 --> 01:27:05,637 Pepe is now been spray painted on walls as a symbol of hope. 1631 01:27:08,432 --> 01:27:10,350 When has that actually happened in history? 1632 01:27:10,434 --> 01:27:11,768 You see it in movies all the time. 1633 01:27:11,852 --> 01:27:13,520 They're like, this is the symbol we're all 1634 01:27:13,603 --> 01:27:15,439 going to rally behind. 1635 01:27:15,522 --> 01:27:16,857 It just never happens in reality, 1636 01:27:16,940 --> 01:27:19,067 except now it happened to Pepe. 1637 01:27:23,071 --> 01:27:28,076 Pepe beams into everyone's brain this idea of the everyman. 1638 01:27:28,160 --> 01:27:30,662 As you grow up, you realize that, in fact, you 1639 01:27:30,746 --> 01:27:35,375 can affect the world, and you can use a small lever 1640 01:27:35,459 --> 01:27:37,961 to actually move a great amount of weight. 1641 01:27:38,044 --> 01:27:39,963 [NON-ENGLISH SINGING] 1642 01:27:40,964 --> 01:27:43,508 That's the power that Pepe has. 1643 01:27:43,592 --> 01:27:47,763 Like, oh, what's more worthless than cartoons? 1644 01:27:47,846 --> 01:27:51,641 But what's more powerful than Mickey Mouse? 1645 01:27:51,725 --> 01:27:53,602 It's one of the most powerful things you can do 1646 01:27:53,685 --> 01:27:54,978 is create an iconic cartoon. 1647 01:27:57,731 --> 01:27:59,232 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] 1648 01:28:25,717 --> 01:28:27,636 In a lot of traditional societies, 1649 01:28:27,719 --> 01:28:33,391 it was very standard to look for omens, signs, strange portents, 1650 01:28:33,475 --> 01:28:37,896 things that were not expected, that came out of the blue. 1651 01:28:37,979 --> 01:28:40,148 Because that was a warning that something was shifting 1652 01:28:40,232 --> 01:28:42,275 in society, something had gone wrong, 1653 01:28:42,359 --> 01:28:44,820 or there was something building that you needed to know about 1654 01:28:44,903 --> 01:28:47,489 before it arrived. 1655 01:28:47,572 --> 01:28:49,783 Pepe the Frog is an omen. 1656 01:28:49,866 --> 01:28:51,827 We need to listen, because it's not 1657 01:28:51,910 --> 01:28:55,580 going to go away until we hear the message that it has to say. 1658 01:29:03,839 --> 01:29:05,340 Nowadays, I've just been thinking 1659 01:29:05,423 --> 01:29:10,762 about this concept of a spiral, life unfolding in this kind 1660 01:29:10,846 --> 01:29:14,307 of spirally nature. 1661 01:29:14,391 --> 01:29:19,938 So I have been drawing in more circular ways. 1662 01:29:20,021 --> 01:29:22,524 1 think that there is a collective consciousness 1663 01:29:22,607 --> 01:29:25,652 of darkness and light. 1664 01:29:25,735 --> 01:29:28,572 And the only thing that seems true to me 1665 01:29:28,655 --> 01:29:30,949 is that everything's going to change. 1666 01:29:31,032 --> 01:29:34,995 Trump's not going to always be the president. 1667 01:29:35,078 --> 01:29:38,206 Planet Earth isn't always going to have people on it. 1668 01:29:38,290 --> 01:29:40,125 Who knows? 1669 01:29:40,208 --> 01:29:43,003 The positive notion of Pepe is the possibility 1670 01:29:43,086 --> 01:29:44,379 that we can change again. 1671 01:29:52,804 --> 01:29:54,639 Hardcore happy place. 1672 01:29:54,723 --> 01:29:56,725 You've got to go hardcore happy. 1673 01:30:03,315 --> 01:30:05,483 I still like drawing him. 1674 01:30:05,567 --> 01:30:06,651 1 go through waves. 1675 01:30:06,735 --> 01:30:09,237 1 think the last time I talked to you, 1676 01:30:09,321 --> 01:30:12,157 Arthur, I was sick of him, but now ll like trying him again. 1677 01:30:21,499 --> 01:30:22,667 [MUSIC - "LET GO"] 1678 01:31:12,217 --> 01:31:17,889 (SINGING) Brother's smile taking on its own. 1679 01:31:20,600 --> 01:31:25,981 Identity only to then leave it behind. 1680 01:31:33,196 --> 01:31:35,573 Foreign light in the afternoon. 1681 01:31:46,376 --> 01:31:47,168 Held by what-be-nots. 1682 01:31:47,252 --> 01:31:55,343 Stay until remembered. 1683 01:31:55,427 --> 01:32:04,019 Here Pm standing, ripped apart by albatross. 1684 01:32:04,102 --> 01:32:08,565 Hanging by a thread. 1685 01:32:17,907 --> 01:32:18,783 What's in a name. 1686 01:32:39,512 --> 01:32:44,559 Down on the other side. 1687 01:32:48,813 --> 01:32:52,984 I'm almost out of sight. 1688 01:32:58,698 --> 01:33:02,577 Looking up to let go. 1689 01:33:07,123 --> 01:33:09,751 Now I'm letting go. 1690 01:33:17,926 --> 01:33:20,261 Now I'm letting go. 1691 01:33:26,017 --> 01:33:31,731 Now I'm letting go.