1 00:00:02,436 --> 00:00:03,481 [Narrator] A wealthy commodities trader 2 00:00:03,524 --> 00:00:05,396 with the world at his feet. 3 00:00:05,439 --> 00:00:07,528 My brother was a fun loving guy. 4 00:00:07,572 --> 00:00:08,747 He had anything he wanted. 5 00:00:08,790 --> 00:00:10,401 He had a lot of money. 6 00:00:10,444 --> 00:00:12,229 The Cadillacs and the Rolex watches. 7 00:00:13,534 --> 00:00:15,362 [Narrator] Is viciously gunned down. 8 00:00:15,406 --> 00:00:20,063 They shot him again and again and again. 9 00:00:20,106 --> 00:00:22,195 [Narrator] With his wife and kids in the home 10 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:24,067 at the time of the attack. 11 00:00:24,110 --> 00:00:25,807 It was a very traumatic event to the family 12 00:00:25,851 --> 00:00:28,593 with people with guns threatening them. 13 00:00:28,636 --> 00:00:32,466 You can't dismiss the fact it was a home invasion 14 00:00:32,510 --> 00:00:34,381 but a lot of it didn't add up. 15 00:00:34,425 --> 00:00:38,081 I had no idea at all how this could have happened. 16 00:00:38,124 --> 00:00:41,388 [Narrator] Police chase down a number of suspects. 17 00:00:41,432 --> 00:00:44,130 There was a complete falling out between them. 18 00:00:44,174 --> 00:00:48,221 Someone could get killed over a debt that they didn't pay. 19 00:00:48,265 --> 00:00:51,833 [Narrator] A sudden disappearance leaves everyone on edge. 20 00:00:51,877 --> 00:00:53,400 There was a trader. 21 00:00:53,444 --> 00:00:55,794 He disappeared off the face of the Earth. 22 00:00:55,837 --> 00:00:58,840 It was suspected there was foul play involved. 23 00:00:58,884 --> 00:01:01,104 One dead and one missing. 24 00:01:01,147 --> 00:01:04,150 It put a different spin on this type of investigation. 25 00:01:04,194 --> 00:01:08,154 [Narrator] Every lead brings investigators to a dead end. 26 00:01:08,198 --> 00:01:10,591 It's very frustrating to have a case 27 00:01:10,635 --> 00:01:12,637 that hits a brick wall. 28 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:14,769 [Narrator] Until 30 years later. 29 00:01:14,813 --> 00:01:19,165 They were holding a very big secret inside. 30 00:01:19,209 --> 00:01:22,429 [Narrator] When the shocking truth is revealed. 31 00:01:22,473 --> 00:01:24,779 Couldn't believe it. Couldn't believe it. 32 00:01:24,823 --> 00:01:26,738 That's not even human. 33 00:01:26,781 --> 00:01:27,782 That's the devil. 34 00:01:29,393 --> 00:01:32,439 [soft ominous music] 35 00:01:38,228 --> 00:01:40,839 [Narrator] Just 30 minutes outside of Chicago 36 00:01:40,882 --> 00:01:42,797 lies Inverness, Illinois. 37 00:01:44,582 --> 00:01:47,672 Inverness is one of the wealthiest suburbs of Chicago. 38 00:01:47,715 --> 00:01:50,849 It's a safe, beautiful neighborhood. 39 00:01:50,892 --> 00:01:52,459 Some would call it very rich. 40 00:01:52,503 --> 00:01:54,896 Very large homes and very few crimes 41 00:01:54,940 --> 00:01:56,507 are ever committed in that area. 42 00:01:58,291 --> 00:02:02,295 [Narrator] But on April 30th, 1979 at 3:20 PM, 43 00:02:02,339 --> 00:02:04,471 police receive a distressing call 44 00:02:04,515 --> 00:02:08,171 from a 15-year-old girl named Becky Gaimari. 45 00:02:08,214 --> 00:02:09,781 Her words were, "There's been a robbery. 46 00:02:09,824 --> 00:02:11,565 My dad's been shot. 47 00:02:11,609 --> 00:02:13,524 He was bleeding from the chest." 48 00:02:13,567 --> 00:02:15,656 The police responded immediately. 49 00:02:17,267 --> 00:02:18,833 [Scott] As we entered through the front door 50 00:02:18,877 --> 00:02:20,835 we were met by Becky Gaimari. 51 00:02:20,879 --> 00:02:24,230 She was crying and pointing downstairs. 52 00:02:24,274 --> 00:02:27,233 I went downstairs and I saw a male 53 00:02:27,277 --> 00:02:30,541 who was leaning back in the sofa 54 00:02:30,584 --> 00:02:33,196 who appeared to have numerous gunshot wounds. 55 00:02:34,588 --> 00:02:36,460 There was a woman who was kneeling 56 00:02:36,503 --> 00:02:40,333 at the feet of the victim crying almost in hysterics. 57 00:02:40,377 --> 00:02:43,728 [Narrator] The woman identifies herself as Jackie Gaimari. 58 00:02:43,771 --> 00:02:46,687 She says the victim is her husband, Carl. 59 00:02:46,731 --> 00:02:49,386 And that she and her three youngest children, 60 00:02:49,429 --> 00:02:52,258 Bobbie, Carly and Nick were in the home 61 00:02:52,302 --> 00:02:53,868 when the intruders stormed in. 62 00:02:55,392 --> 00:02:57,785 Those children must have been terrified. 63 00:02:59,309 --> 00:03:02,790 And felt so helpless. It's horrifying. 64 00:03:02,834 --> 00:03:04,923 The family were taken out to the squad cars 65 00:03:04,966 --> 00:03:06,968 so that they were secure and away from everyone. 66 00:03:08,579 --> 00:03:10,407 [Narrator] Investigators set to work 67 00:03:10,450 --> 00:03:14,237 processing the crime scene, starting with the body. 68 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,630 I went over to the victim. 69 00:03:16,674 --> 00:03:18,502 I didn't find a pulse. 70 00:03:18,545 --> 00:03:22,288 There was a number of bullet holes in his chest, 71 00:03:22,332 --> 00:03:25,987 with the blood basically draining down to his pants. 72 00:03:26,031 --> 00:03:28,642 I noticed a nine millimeter gun 73 00:03:28,686 --> 00:03:30,775 and there were a number of nine millimeter casings 74 00:03:30,818 --> 00:03:34,431 that were strewn about the victim's feet. 75 00:03:34,474 --> 00:03:38,739 There was also a small 380 caliber handgun. 76 00:03:38,783 --> 00:03:41,264 It appeared that the nine millimeter was placed 77 00:03:41,307 --> 00:03:43,266 to make some type of a statement. 78 00:03:43,309 --> 00:03:45,659 This could be a staged killing. 79 00:03:45,703 --> 00:03:48,619 The victim, his legs were crossed at his ankles. 80 00:03:48,662 --> 00:03:51,012 It didn't appear to be a natural position. 81 00:03:51,056 --> 00:03:53,841 I went and took an inventory 82 00:03:53,885 --> 00:03:56,409 of what the rest of the house looked like. 83 00:03:56,453 --> 00:03:59,847 The bedrooms, the dresser drawers had been opened. 84 00:03:59,891 --> 00:04:02,763 A number of items appeared to be tossed on the floor. 85 00:04:02,807 --> 00:04:04,939 I could see that there were jewelry boxes 86 00:04:04,983 --> 00:04:08,813 that still had jewelry in them which raises questions 87 00:04:08,856 --> 00:04:12,469 as to why they actually came to that residence. 88 00:04:12,512 --> 00:04:14,297 Was this a legitimate robbery? 89 00:04:14,340 --> 00:04:16,690 Was this staged to cover something up? 90 00:04:16,734 --> 00:04:20,607 You can't dismiss the fact it was a home invasion 91 00:04:20,651 --> 00:04:23,654 but a lot of it didn't add up, it did bring into question 92 00:04:23,697 --> 00:04:27,310 that they were there really to kill the victim. 93 00:04:29,355 --> 00:04:33,011 We took a number of fingerprint lifts from the kitchen, 94 00:04:34,578 --> 00:04:36,493 the dining room and the bedroom area. 95 00:04:36,536 --> 00:04:38,799 One of the officers noticed there was no forced entry. 96 00:04:38,843 --> 00:04:40,758 Nobody kicked in the door or pried it. 97 00:04:42,499 --> 00:04:44,414 [Narrator] As police continue working the scene, 98 00:04:44,457 --> 00:04:47,373 Carl's family receives the tragic news. 99 00:04:47,417 --> 00:04:48,809 My sister called me says, 100 00:04:48,853 --> 00:04:50,898 "You'd better get home. Carl was shot." 101 00:04:50,942 --> 00:04:54,337 The whole neighborhood where the house was all cordoned off. 102 00:04:54,380 --> 00:04:56,339 We were told by the police he's in the house, 103 00:04:56,382 --> 00:04:59,080 he's dead and they're investigating. 104 00:04:59,124 --> 00:05:01,474 So we were all, like, stunned. 105 00:05:01,518 --> 00:05:03,911 When this happened, it was just a huge, huge shock. 106 00:05:03,955 --> 00:05:06,784 We didn't know how to react. 107 00:05:06,827 --> 00:05:07,698 Disbelief. 108 00:05:09,134 --> 00:05:12,050 And just can't be. 109 00:05:14,705 --> 00:05:17,925 [Narrator] Carl Gaimari was born in Elmwood Park, Illinois 110 00:05:17,969 --> 00:05:19,666 in 1944. 111 00:05:19,710 --> 00:05:22,365 He was the third of four children. 112 00:05:22,408 --> 00:05:24,758 My brother, Carl, was a fun-loving guy. 113 00:05:24,802 --> 00:05:28,414 You know, he liked to go out and have fun, 114 00:05:28,458 --> 00:05:29,850 you know, go on dates with girls 115 00:05:29,894 --> 00:05:33,680 and go to parties and things like that. 116 00:05:33,724 --> 00:05:35,682 [Narrator] When Carl was in high school, 117 00:05:35,726 --> 00:05:37,815 he met the love of his life. 118 00:05:37,858 --> 00:05:39,686 When he started dating Jackie, 119 00:05:39,730 --> 00:05:42,776 he was like 18, and I think she was 17 at the time. 120 00:05:42,820 --> 00:05:45,562 He just knew that this was the one and, you know, 121 00:05:45,605 --> 00:05:47,868 he wanted to get married and he wanted to get married now. 122 00:05:47,912 --> 00:05:49,479 [Narrator] Still teenagers, 123 00:05:49,522 --> 00:05:52,873 Carl and Jackie started a family right away. 124 00:05:52,917 --> 00:05:54,701 Carl was excited to be a dad. 125 00:05:54,745 --> 00:05:55,833 They had four kids. 126 00:05:55,876 --> 00:05:57,008 Becky was the oldest. 127 00:05:57,051 --> 00:05:58,618 Bobbie was the second oldest. 128 00:05:58,662 --> 00:06:00,533 Carly was the third daughter. 129 00:06:00,577 --> 00:06:02,143 And then Nick was the youngest. 130 00:06:02,187 --> 00:06:03,580 He was his son. 131 00:06:03,623 --> 00:06:05,408 [Narrator] By 1977, 132 00:06:05,451 --> 00:06:08,715 Carl had the perfect family and the perfect job, 133 00:06:08,759 --> 00:06:11,936 working in finance at the Chicago Board of Trade. 134 00:06:11,979 --> 00:06:13,677 Carl climbed up the ladder. 135 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:15,548 He was energetic and he loved it, 136 00:06:15,592 --> 00:06:17,724 and it fit his personality to a tee. 137 00:06:17,768 --> 00:06:19,422 He had anything he wanted. 138 00:06:19,465 --> 00:06:21,119 He had a lot of money. 139 00:06:21,162 --> 00:06:24,862 'Came the Cadillacs and Rolex watches and things like that. 140 00:06:24,905 --> 00:06:26,646 He started living a high life. 141 00:06:26,690 --> 00:06:28,082 [Narrator] From the outside, 142 00:06:28,126 --> 00:06:30,084 Carl's life seemed picture perfect. 143 00:06:31,912 --> 00:06:35,699 But now his violent death leaves his family shattered. 144 00:06:35,742 --> 00:06:37,527 He's been shot. 145 00:06:37,570 --> 00:06:39,572 And I was shocked, you know, no one knew anything, 146 00:06:39,616 --> 00:06:41,095 what's going on? 147 00:06:41,139 --> 00:06:43,576 I had no idea at all how this could have happened 148 00:06:43,620 --> 00:06:45,578 [Narrator] Investigators start by interviewing 149 00:06:45,622 --> 00:06:48,929 Carl's family who were also witnesses to the crime. 150 00:06:48,973 --> 00:06:52,585 I took Jackie and the two girls out to the garage 151 00:06:52,629 --> 00:06:54,674 so I could get a general statement from them 152 00:06:54,718 --> 00:06:56,197 as to what occurred. 153 00:06:56,241 --> 00:06:59,462 Jackie was crying and very upset. 154 00:06:59,505 --> 00:07:02,203 Becky was crying. Bobbie was crying. 155 00:07:02,247 --> 00:07:06,817 This was the most traumatic thing children could go through. 156 00:07:06,860 --> 00:07:09,950 They said Carl went to work. 157 00:07:09,994 --> 00:07:14,128 Jackie was at home with Bobbie, her 13-year-old daughter, 158 00:07:14,172 --> 00:07:16,522 five year old Carly and two year old Nick. 159 00:07:16,566 --> 00:07:20,091 Around 12 or 12:30, Bobbie is laying on the couch 160 00:07:20,134 --> 00:07:22,659 and she's watching TV and two men come in. 161 00:07:23,660 --> 00:07:25,488 And they have guns. 162 00:07:25,531 --> 00:07:27,664 She said the two men were wearing stocking masks 163 00:07:27,707 --> 00:07:29,013 and dark clothing. 164 00:07:30,797 --> 00:07:33,496 And they had come in through the unlocked back door. 165 00:07:33,539 --> 00:07:37,543 They point the guns at her and they ask her, 166 00:07:37,587 --> 00:07:39,240 "Where's your mother?" 167 00:07:39,284 --> 00:07:43,549 So Bobbie leads these men to the master bedroom 168 00:07:43,593 --> 00:07:45,856 where Jackie is on the phone. 169 00:07:45,899 --> 00:07:49,163 They ask Jackie for her money, and she says, 170 00:07:49,207 --> 00:07:50,774 "I only have $20." 171 00:07:50,817 --> 00:07:52,906 And they said we're here for more than that. 172 00:07:52,950 --> 00:07:57,302 These men tie Bobbie's hands behind her back. 173 00:07:58,999 --> 00:08:01,567 And then they tie up Jackie. 174 00:08:01,611 --> 00:08:06,616 They force them into the master bedroom closet with Carly, 175 00:08:07,225 --> 00:08:08,226 with baby Nick. 176 00:08:09,140 --> 00:08:10,184 Time is passing. 177 00:08:11,925 --> 00:08:16,626 Bobbie said that she heard a man yelling, "No," 178 00:08:17,714 --> 00:08:19,063 who she thought was her father. 179 00:08:19,106 --> 00:08:21,587 And she heard three banging sounds, 180 00:08:21,631 --> 00:08:23,546 which she believed were gunshots. 181 00:08:25,069 --> 00:08:26,940 Becky came home approximately three o'clock 182 00:08:26,984 --> 00:08:28,725 in the afternoon from school. 183 00:08:30,335 --> 00:08:32,729 She walked in through the front door, called for her mom. 184 00:08:32,772 --> 00:08:36,994 All she heard was crying from the master bedroom. 185 00:08:37,908 --> 00:08:39,692 At that time, 186 00:08:39,736 --> 00:08:41,912 she found them banging on the closet door to be let out. 187 00:08:43,261 --> 00:08:45,568 Once Becky opens up the closet doors, 188 00:08:45,611 --> 00:08:47,700 Bobbie, went directly down to the basement. 189 00:08:47,744 --> 00:08:50,964 And Bobbie saw her father's bloody, 190 00:08:51,008 --> 00:08:54,794 bullet ridden body laying on that couch. 191 00:08:56,187 --> 00:08:58,624 It is difficult to imagine how terrifying 192 00:08:58,668 --> 00:09:00,060 this must have been. 193 00:09:00,104 --> 00:09:01,671 [Narrator] While the family lived 194 00:09:01,714 --> 00:09:03,934 through an extremely traumatic ordeal, 195 00:09:03,977 --> 00:09:06,327 police are hopeful that with their help, 196 00:09:06,371 --> 00:09:08,982 they can catch Carl's killers. 197 00:09:09,026 --> 00:09:11,855 Jackie and Bobbie said the suspects 198 00:09:11,898 --> 00:09:13,857 had actually pulled up their masks, 199 00:09:13,900 --> 00:09:16,729 so they had their face exposed to them. 200 00:09:16,773 --> 00:09:21,778 Jackie described the first suspect as a male, white, 201 00:09:22,735 --> 00:09:24,737 mid to late 20s to 30s. 202 00:09:26,130 --> 00:09:29,655 Tall, dark haired, and also had a mustache. 203 00:09:29,699 --> 00:09:32,136 The second suspect was shorter than the first, 204 00:09:32,179 --> 00:09:34,747 slightly heavier, was a white male, 205 00:09:34,791 --> 00:09:37,750 but had a pale complexion and facial hair. 206 00:09:37,794 --> 00:09:42,320 Bobbie and Jackie were able to do composites of the faces 207 00:09:42,363 --> 00:09:44,670 they saw I think there was a lot of hope 208 00:09:44,714 --> 00:09:47,107 somebody's going to recognize these individuals. 209 00:09:47,151 --> 00:09:48,761 When we heard about the sketch, 210 00:09:48,805 --> 00:09:49,893 we thought that would be it. 211 00:09:49,936 --> 00:09:51,329 They would be able to find 'em. 212 00:09:52,852 --> 00:09:54,724 I was hoping to get the information out 213 00:09:54,767 --> 00:09:57,117 as quickly as possible with the suspects' description 214 00:09:57,161 --> 00:09:59,337 so that if someone was possibly stopped 215 00:09:59,380 --> 00:10:02,645 or seen within the general area, 216 00:10:02,688 --> 00:10:04,864 a patrol vehicle could have stopped them. 217 00:10:05,952 --> 00:10:07,258 [Narrator] In Inverness, 218 00:10:07,301 --> 00:10:09,303 where crime is virtually nonexistent, 219 00:10:09,347 --> 00:10:11,958 police believe there is more to this case 220 00:10:12,002 --> 00:10:13,656 than meets the eye. 221 00:10:13,699 --> 00:10:15,701 It appeared to be a staged crime. 222 00:10:15,745 --> 00:10:19,879 It could be someone who owed money to someone 223 00:10:19,923 --> 00:10:21,185 and being shot for that. 224 00:10:21,228 --> 00:10:23,840 A jealous boyfriend. 225 00:10:23,883 --> 00:10:25,711 It could be a number of different things. 226 00:10:25,755 --> 00:10:28,322 You can't close your mind to any possibility 227 00:10:28,366 --> 00:10:30,281 at that point in time. 228 00:10:30,324 --> 00:10:31,804 [Narrator] Coming up, 229 00:10:31,848 --> 00:10:34,677 investigators uncover sordid secrets. 230 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:36,983 He might have had some associates 231 00:10:37,027 --> 00:10:39,769 who might have been involved with the mob. 232 00:10:42,032 --> 00:10:44,730 It definitely raised a red flag. 233 00:10:44,774 --> 00:10:46,993 [Narrator] The killers evade detectives 234 00:10:47,037 --> 00:10:50,214 until an unexpected witness steps forward. 235 00:10:54,218 --> 00:10:55,828 [Narrator] To reveal a dark 236 00:10:55,872 --> 00:10:58,831 and twisted plot no one predicted. 237 00:10:58,875 --> 00:11:01,181 As soon as they knew how Carl was going to be murdered, 238 00:11:01,225 --> 00:11:03,706 and that's exactly what happened to him. 239 00:11:03,749 --> 00:11:05,055 That was the missing key. 240 00:11:06,056 --> 00:11:09,146 [soft ominous music] 241 00:11:11,235 --> 00:11:12,758 [Narrator] Police are investigating 242 00:11:12,802 --> 00:11:14,760 the murder of commodities trader 243 00:11:14,804 --> 00:11:17,763 and father of four, Carl Gaimari. 244 00:11:17,807 --> 00:11:20,287 His wife and young family were at home 245 00:11:20,331 --> 00:11:22,812 at the time of the terrifying attack. 246 00:11:22,855 --> 00:11:26,076 Jackie and the two girls were, mostly in shock. 247 00:11:26,119 --> 00:11:29,427 They were completely overwhelmed by what was happening. 248 00:11:29,470 --> 00:11:32,256 [Narrator] Jackie and Bobbie saw the gunmen. 249 00:11:32,299 --> 00:11:34,084 Armed with their description, 250 00:11:34,127 --> 00:11:37,783 officers go door to door looking for witnesses. 251 00:11:37,827 --> 00:11:39,524 One of the neighbors saw two men coming 252 00:11:39,567 --> 00:11:41,787 from the Gaimari's through her yard 253 00:11:41,831 --> 00:11:46,183 and she thought one of them was carrying like a jewel bag. 254 00:11:46,226 --> 00:11:48,925 After that neighbor pointed out 255 00:11:48,968 --> 00:11:52,015 where she saw the two men walking through her yard, 256 00:11:52,058 --> 00:11:55,105 the detectives went back and followed that path. 257 00:11:55,148 --> 00:11:59,196 They had found a cigarette butt that still had ash on it 258 00:11:59,239 --> 00:12:00,893 by her driveway. 259 00:12:00,937 --> 00:12:02,808 That cigarette butt was collected 260 00:12:02,852 --> 00:12:04,505 by the State Police Crime Lab. 261 00:12:04,549 --> 00:12:07,944 But in 1979, there was no DNA. 262 00:12:07,987 --> 00:12:10,947 So there really wasn't much of the evidence 263 00:12:10,990 --> 00:12:13,471 that could be collected off of that cigarette butt. 264 00:12:14,994 --> 00:12:16,343 [Narrator] More witnesses come forward 265 00:12:16,387 --> 00:12:19,825 to help police trace the suspects' movements. 266 00:12:19,869 --> 00:12:22,959 There was a woman who was in her car around the time 267 00:12:23,002 --> 00:12:25,309 that this incident took place. 268 00:12:25,352 --> 00:12:29,313 She stated that she saw a beater type gray car 269 00:12:29,356 --> 00:12:31,228 parked on the side of the street. 270 00:12:32,882 --> 00:12:37,147 When she returned approximately three o'clock or so, 271 00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:41,368 she said that she saw the vehicle oncoming towards her. 272 00:12:41,412 --> 00:12:44,894 She said that the driver was a white male. 273 00:12:44,937 --> 00:12:48,462 The second passenger in the front was a white male, 274 00:12:48,506 --> 00:12:51,509 but he was trying to slump down in the seat. 275 00:12:51,552 --> 00:12:54,947 In her words, she thought he was trying to hide himself. 276 00:12:54,991 --> 00:12:59,169 The neighbor who saw that vehicle coming towards her 277 00:12:59,212 --> 00:13:03,216 with the two men was also able to do a composite. 278 00:13:03,260 --> 00:13:04,870 [Narrator] It's similar to the one 279 00:13:04,914 --> 00:13:07,177 Jackie and Bobbie gave police. 280 00:13:08,569 --> 00:13:10,006 Composites are very,very useful. 281 00:13:11,398 --> 00:13:12,486 You can put them in the newspaper, 282 00:13:12,530 --> 00:13:14,097 you can get them on the news, 283 00:13:14,140 --> 00:13:15,315 you can get them out there for people, 284 00:13:15,359 --> 00:13:17,230 other agencies to see 285 00:13:17,274 --> 00:13:20,973 if anybody could identify them as possible suspects. 286 00:13:21,017 --> 00:13:22,888 Right after the canvas was conducted, 287 00:13:22,932 --> 00:13:27,414 they then did a sweep of the area between the victim's house 288 00:13:27,458 --> 00:13:29,025 and where this car was observed 289 00:13:29,068 --> 00:13:31,070 to see if they could find any evidence. 290 00:13:31,114 --> 00:13:34,030 They also discovered tire impressions 291 00:13:34,073 --> 00:13:36,989 and some footwear impressions that were in the mud there, 292 00:13:37,033 --> 00:13:38,425 where the car had been parked. 293 00:13:40,645 --> 00:13:42,255 [Narrator] Back at the crime scene, 294 00:13:42,299 --> 00:13:45,041 investigators get an unexpected visitor. 295 00:13:46,999 --> 00:13:48,609 I noticed someone approach me 296 00:13:48,653 --> 00:13:50,437 and he pulled out his credentials 297 00:13:50,481 --> 00:13:52,439 as being a Chicago police officer 298 00:13:52,483 --> 00:13:55,225 and told his name was Sam Greco. 299 00:13:55,268 --> 00:13:58,054 Sam said that he was a family friend. 300 00:13:58,097 --> 00:13:59,969 The girls knew Sam. 301 00:14:00,012 --> 00:14:01,971 They felt comfortable around him. 302 00:14:02,014 --> 00:14:04,495 He said that he had been called by the daughter. 303 00:14:05,583 --> 00:14:07,411 That something had happened, 304 00:14:07,454 --> 00:14:09,413 so he was coming out to see what assistance he could lend. 305 00:14:09,456 --> 00:14:12,677 On the day of the murder Becky made two phone calls. 306 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:14,940 She did call 911. 307 00:14:14,984 --> 00:14:18,596 Her next call was to Sam to tell him what had taken place. 308 00:14:18,639 --> 00:14:20,250 Sam originally arrived at the scene 309 00:14:20,293 --> 00:14:23,340 about an hour after the initial call. 310 00:14:23,383 --> 00:14:26,125 He had advised them that he had been on the phone 311 00:14:26,169 --> 00:14:30,564 with Jackie, this was about 12:30 in the afternoon 312 00:14:30,608 --> 00:14:32,566 and that during their conversation, 313 00:14:32,610 --> 00:14:34,438 she said somebody was there 314 00:14:34,481 --> 00:14:36,440 and he heard some voices in the background 315 00:14:36,483 --> 00:14:38,268 and then the call was disconnected. 316 00:14:38,311 --> 00:14:40,966 So he had offered to give them his phone records 317 00:14:41,010 --> 00:14:42,707 so they could try to establish a timeline 318 00:14:42,750 --> 00:14:44,622 of when that occurred. 319 00:14:44,665 --> 00:14:46,537 [Narrator] Based on the time of the phone call, 320 00:14:46,580 --> 00:14:50,019 police believe the gunmen arrived at 12:30 PM 321 00:14:50,062 --> 00:14:52,456 and left by 3 that afternoon. 322 00:14:52,499 --> 00:14:54,980 They spent over two hours in the home, 323 00:14:55,024 --> 00:14:58,244 a detail that puzzles the investigators. 324 00:14:58,288 --> 00:15:00,507 They spent so much time in the house, which is not normal. 325 00:15:00,551 --> 00:15:02,118 Home invaders usually come in, 326 00:15:02,161 --> 00:15:03,728 take care of business and leave. 327 00:15:03,771 --> 00:15:05,686 They don't sit around. 328 00:15:05,730 --> 00:15:09,125 Second, the amount of items that were left behind 329 00:15:09,168 --> 00:15:12,693 didn't indicate that this was a straight up home invasion. 330 00:15:12,737 --> 00:15:14,652 My question was whether or not 331 00:15:14,695 --> 00:15:17,002 they knew that Carl Gaimari was coming home 332 00:15:17,046 --> 00:15:18,482 at that point in time. 333 00:15:18,525 --> 00:15:20,179 And why did they kill him? 334 00:15:20,223 --> 00:15:21,441 Who did it and why? 335 00:15:23,052 --> 00:15:24,096 And why my brother, 336 00:15:24,140 --> 00:15:25,663 what did he do that he deserved 337 00:15:25,706 --> 00:15:29,014 to have his life snuffed away and taken away? 338 00:15:29,058 --> 00:15:30,711 We had no idea who it could be. 339 00:15:30,755 --> 00:15:32,626 [Narrator] In their search for answers, 340 00:15:32,670 --> 00:15:36,674 detectives turn back to Carl's wife, Jackie. 341 00:15:36,717 --> 00:15:40,025 Any time you're investigating a murder within a family, 342 00:15:40,069 --> 00:15:42,375 you have to look at the surviving spouse. 343 00:15:42,419 --> 00:15:46,205 It was clear that Jackie hadn't been the one to shoot Carl, 344 00:15:46,249 --> 00:15:48,599 two armed invaders came into their house 345 00:15:48,642 --> 00:15:50,166 and locked them in the closet. 346 00:15:50,209 --> 00:15:52,124 It was very traumatic to the kids 347 00:15:52,168 --> 00:15:54,735 and to Jackie to have all of a sudden their peaceful day 348 00:15:54,779 --> 00:15:57,042 broken down with people with guns 349 00:15:57,086 --> 00:15:59,349 and then threatening them 350 00:15:59,392 --> 00:16:01,525 and not letting them move around the house, 351 00:16:01,568 --> 00:16:04,093 not knowing what was going to happen next. 352 00:16:04,136 --> 00:16:06,617 They were absolutely terrified 353 00:16:06,660 --> 00:16:09,185 even after the suspects had left. 354 00:16:09,228 --> 00:16:11,622 It was difficult to get them to concentrate 355 00:16:11,665 --> 00:16:13,232 on making a statement. 356 00:16:13,276 --> 00:16:15,582 Jackie was crying, upset. 357 00:16:17,802 --> 00:16:19,543 [Narrator] When detectives ask Jackie 358 00:16:19,586 --> 00:16:21,719 about her relationship with Carl, 359 00:16:21,762 --> 00:16:23,590 she tells them she loved him 360 00:16:23,634 --> 00:16:26,071 and that he was her high school sweetheart, 361 00:16:26,115 --> 00:16:28,508 but what she reveals about her marriage, 362 00:16:28,552 --> 00:16:31,076 surprises investigators. 363 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:32,512 Carl and Jackie 364 00:16:32,556 --> 00:16:36,560 had a rather unorthodox situation at times. 365 00:16:36,603 --> 00:16:40,390 Over the years, they both had affairs, 366 00:16:40,433 --> 00:16:42,827 and they would bring their lovers home. 367 00:16:42,870 --> 00:16:44,785 When you get information like that, 368 00:16:44,829 --> 00:16:48,311 that's an important thing to follow up on and look further 369 00:16:48,354 --> 00:16:50,313 to see where if that has anything to do 370 00:16:50,356 --> 00:16:51,575 with what occurred here. 371 00:16:53,142 --> 00:16:54,360 [Narrator] Had the couple's infidelities 372 00:16:54,404 --> 00:16:56,710 led to Carl's murder? 373 00:16:56,754 --> 00:16:59,583 You had to look at that as a possibility. 374 00:16:59,626 --> 00:17:02,325 It definitely raised a red flag. 375 00:17:02,368 --> 00:17:04,153 It was definitely shocking. 376 00:17:06,372 --> 00:17:09,462 [soft ominous music] 377 00:17:14,250 --> 00:17:15,686 [Narrator] Detectives investigating 378 00:17:15,729 --> 00:17:18,471 the cold-blooded murder of Carl Gaimari 379 00:17:18,515 --> 00:17:20,821 have learned he and his wife Jackie 380 00:17:20,865 --> 00:17:23,520 had both been unfaithful. 381 00:17:23,563 --> 00:17:25,261 That's a big red flag 382 00:17:25,304 --> 00:17:27,524 and needs to be looked at very thoroughly. 383 00:17:28,568 --> 00:17:30,440 [Narrator] Jackie tells police 384 00:17:30,483 --> 00:17:32,920 they had recently agreed to work on their marriage. 385 00:17:32,964 --> 00:17:37,969 They seemed to be getting better as you got into 1979. 386 00:17:39,188 --> 00:17:39,927 They were trying to work it out. 387 00:17:41,494 --> 00:17:43,322 They went on a romantic vacation. 388 00:17:43,366 --> 00:17:46,369 They were making a plan to do another big trip to Africa. 389 00:17:47,457 --> 00:17:48,893 They were buying a new house, 390 00:17:48,936 --> 00:17:51,417 and they would tell friends that, "Yeah, 391 00:17:51,461 --> 00:17:53,332 things are getting back together for us. 392 00:17:53,376 --> 00:17:55,682 We're going to make an effort to make this work 393 00:17:55,726 --> 00:17:57,728 especially because of the kids." 394 00:17:57,771 --> 00:17:59,686 [Narrator] A year before the murder, 395 00:17:59,730 --> 00:18:03,168 the couple had even decided to renew their vows. 396 00:18:03,212 --> 00:18:05,562 We as a family thought, wow, this is nice. 397 00:18:05,605 --> 00:18:07,520 This is really nice to see. 398 00:18:07,564 --> 00:18:09,653 You know, that they wanted to get together 399 00:18:09,696 --> 00:18:13,570 and to have us there witness the renewing of their vows. 400 00:18:13,613 --> 00:18:15,311 They were like two lovebirds. 401 00:18:15,354 --> 00:18:16,964 He was gleaming from ear to ear, 402 00:18:17,008 --> 00:18:20,403 and so was Jackie and they seemed like a wonderful couple. 403 00:18:22,231 --> 00:18:24,624 [Narrator] While Jackie was also a victim in this crime, 404 00:18:24,668 --> 00:18:27,453 detectives still need to know if she'd have anything 405 00:18:27,497 --> 00:18:30,848 to gain financially from Carl's death. 406 00:18:30,891 --> 00:18:32,458 It was learned that there was only 407 00:18:32,502 --> 00:18:34,765 about a $30,000 life insurance policy. 408 00:18:36,593 --> 00:18:40,205 Carl had never signed a will, which ties it up in court. 409 00:18:40,249 --> 00:18:41,902 And it could be seven years 410 00:18:41,946 --> 00:18:44,775 before you see any of the other financial gain from this. 411 00:18:44,818 --> 00:18:46,646 So this kind of cleared Jackie 412 00:18:46,690 --> 00:18:49,475 of being in the spotlight of the investigation. 413 00:18:49,519 --> 00:18:51,216 [Narrator] Investigators consider 414 00:18:51,260 --> 00:18:53,914 whether Carl and Jackie's renewed marriage 415 00:18:53,958 --> 00:18:57,440 could have driven one of their former lovers to murder. 416 00:18:57,483 --> 00:19:00,269 When they ask Jackie who she had an affair with, 417 00:19:00,312 --> 00:19:02,532 her answer is surprising. 418 00:19:03,968 --> 00:19:06,362 Jackie and Sam Greco had an affair. 419 00:19:07,972 --> 00:19:10,670 She said that she had dated Sam for quite some time, 420 00:19:10,714 --> 00:19:13,847 but that that she had broken off the relationship with Sam 421 00:19:13,891 --> 00:19:18,504 to recommit to her marriage with Carl. 422 00:19:18,548 --> 00:19:23,248 Jackie had said, when she became pregnant with Nick, 423 00:19:23,292 --> 00:19:24,597 she stopped seeing Sam. 424 00:19:26,425 --> 00:19:29,428 [Narrator] Detectives need to know, was Sam a jealous ex? 425 00:19:29,472 --> 00:19:32,518 Could he have killed Carl to have Jackie to himself? 426 00:19:32,562 --> 00:19:33,780 Sam was interviewed 427 00:19:35,347 --> 00:19:37,567 once on the phone and then again in person. 428 00:19:38,698 --> 00:19:42,833 He had met Jackie at a wedding 429 00:19:42,876 --> 00:19:45,836 and he was doing some private investigative work. 430 00:19:45,879 --> 00:19:50,014 And Jackie had hired him to follow Carl, 431 00:19:51,711 --> 00:19:53,670 to see if he was having an affair. 432 00:19:55,628 --> 00:19:58,936 There was an indication from Sam's investigation 433 00:19:58,979 --> 00:20:01,939 that Carl was having an affair. 434 00:20:01,982 --> 00:20:03,897 And that ultimately led to them 435 00:20:05,334 --> 00:20:07,510 initiating a relationship. 436 00:20:08,859 --> 00:20:10,643 Sam also told the investigators 437 00:20:10,687 --> 00:20:14,386 that he and Jackie had been lovers, 438 00:20:14,430 --> 00:20:16,693 but they were now just friends. 439 00:20:18,390 --> 00:20:21,480 Sam, denied any involvement with this case. 440 00:20:21,524 --> 00:20:24,353 They took his phone records, fingerprinted him, 441 00:20:24,396 --> 00:20:28,444 and they interviewed individuals associated with Sam. 442 00:20:28,487 --> 00:20:32,012 He was considered a hero 443 00:20:32,056 --> 00:20:34,450 within the Chicago Police Department. 444 00:20:34,493 --> 00:20:38,497 The police back then still investigated him 445 00:20:38,541 --> 00:20:40,107 as much as they could. 446 00:20:40,151 --> 00:20:42,109 The investigators ruled him out 447 00:20:42,153 --> 00:20:43,981 as not being involved in this. 448 00:20:45,722 --> 00:20:48,333 [Narrator] With Sam eliminated from the investigation, 449 00:20:48,377 --> 00:20:50,117 detectives next look at the woman 450 00:20:50,161 --> 00:20:52,859 with whom Carl had been having an affair. 451 00:20:52,903 --> 00:20:56,428 Gail Khayat was someone whom Carl 452 00:20:56,472 --> 00:21:00,171 had actually hired and worked with. 453 00:21:01,999 --> 00:21:05,568 When Gail was interviewed, her description was, 454 00:21:05,611 --> 00:21:09,615 it was kind of two adults having some fun together. 455 00:21:09,659 --> 00:21:10,747 It was nothing serious. 456 00:21:10,790 --> 00:21:12,357 She knew it was going nowhere. 457 00:21:12,401 --> 00:21:14,011 She knew Carl was married. 458 00:21:15,578 --> 00:21:17,362 [Narrator] Gail tells investigators 459 00:21:17,406 --> 00:21:19,625 she and Carl broke things off about a year ago 460 00:21:19,669 --> 00:21:22,498 and that there wasn't any animosity between them. 461 00:21:22,541 --> 00:21:25,762 She ended up, after the relationship was over 462 00:21:25,805 --> 00:21:30,070 between her and Carl, had a boyfriend, got pregnant. 463 00:21:30,114 --> 00:21:33,160 Given the affair had been over for a year, 464 00:21:33,204 --> 00:21:35,685 it just made really no sense 465 00:21:35,728 --> 00:21:39,515 that she would be involved in this in any way. 466 00:21:39,558 --> 00:21:40,907 [Narrator] Just when detectives think 467 00:21:40,951 --> 00:21:42,996 they've hit another dead end, 468 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,564 Gail gives them a stunning new lead. 469 00:21:45,608 --> 00:21:48,654 She says they need to speak to Carl's former friend 470 00:21:48,698 --> 00:21:50,961 and colleague, Ned Keiser. 471 00:21:52,789 --> 00:21:54,834 Ned Keiser, was one of the closer people to Carl 472 00:21:54,878 --> 00:21:56,401 at the Board of Trade. 473 00:21:56,445 --> 00:21:57,402 They had worked together for a while. 474 00:21:57,446 --> 00:21:58,795 They socialized. 475 00:21:58,838 --> 00:22:00,884 [Narrator] Gail claims Ned not only knew 476 00:22:00,927 --> 00:22:04,931 about her affair with Carl, but told Jackie about it. 477 00:22:05,976 --> 00:22:08,065 Carl and Ned were friends. 478 00:22:08,108 --> 00:22:12,461 Carl would use his apartment to be with his girlfriend. 479 00:22:13,984 --> 00:22:18,031 Ned ultimately got upset with Carl, 480 00:22:18,075 --> 00:22:21,557 told Jackie that Carl was using his place 481 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,036 to be with his girlfriend. 482 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,518 Once Carl found out that Ned was the one 483 00:22:26,562 --> 00:22:30,087 who told Jackie about Gail that soured the relationship. 484 00:22:32,698 --> 00:22:34,613 [Narrator] Gail also tells police 485 00:22:34,657 --> 00:22:37,224 Ned had a dark reputation. 486 00:22:37,268 --> 00:22:38,791 [Mike] She had rumored 487 00:22:38,835 --> 00:22:41,054 that he had ties to organized crime. 488 00:22:41,098 --> 00:22:42,795 Whenever you're dealing with people with money 489 00:22:42,839 --> 00:22:43,927 and investment and all, 490 00:22:43,970 --> 00:22:45,494 there's always a possibility 491 00:22:45,537 --> 00:22:48,105 that someone could get killed over a debt 492 00:22:48,148 --> 00:22:50,020 that they didn't pay. 493 00:22:50,063 --> 00:22:52,805 [Narrator] Had Carl and Ned fallen out over money? 494 00:22:52,849 --> 00:22:56,853 Had Ned put out a hit on his former friend? 495 00:22:56,896 --> 00:22:58,507 You always look at the big picture. 496 00:22:58,550 --> 00:23:00,596 Business dealings with Ned. 497 00:23:00,639 --> 00:23:04,904 Him betraying Carl to Jackie about using his place. 498 00:23:04,948 --> 00:23:08,255 Ned having some possible mob connections. 499 00:23:09,822 --> 00:23:10,910 I think you've got to look at everything, 500 00:23:10,954 --> 00:23:12,042 you have to see what's there. 501 00:23:12,085 --> 00:23:13,043 Where does that lead you? 502 00:23:13,086 --> 00:23:15,219 Is this a person who 503 00:23:16,655 --> 00:23:18,701 has a reason to kill Carl? 504 00:23:20,224 --> 00:23:23,314 [soft ominous music] 505 00:23:27,274 --> 00:23:29,102 [Narrator] Police are following a tip 506 00:23:29,146 --> 00:23:32,323 that the murder of successful trader Carl Gaimari 507 00:23:32,366 --> 00:23:34,194 may have been a targeted hit, 508 00:23:34,238 --> 00:23:39,243 one organized by his former friend and coworker, Ned Keiser. 509 00:23:40,723 --> 00:23:42,072 Ned Keiser might have been quote unquote 510 00:23:42,115 --> 00:23:43,595 "involved with the mob." 511 00:23:44,335 --> 00:23:45,902 During the 1970s, 512 00:23:45,945 --> 00:23:48,905 Chicago was was very much involved 513 00:23:48,948 --> 00:23:51,255 with the criminal network of the mob 514 00:23:51,298 --> 00:23:55,389 and a number of people wound up dead every year. 515 00:23:56,956 --> 00:23:59,698 Organized crime had a hand in gambling. 516 00:23:59,742 --> 00:24:02,179 From information obtained from coworkers 517 00:24:02,222 --> 00:24:05,312 and people that knew Carl He gambled at the Board of Trade. 518 00:24:05,356 --> 00:24:07,010 He would gamble outside. 519 00:24:07,053 --> 00:24:08,794 If individuals are gambling like that, 520 00:24:08,838 --> 00:24:10,753 the chances are they would cross paths 521 00:24:10,796 --> 00:24:12,102 with organized crime people. 522 00:24:13,625 --> 00:24:15,671 [Narrator] Five days after the homicide, 523 00:24:15,714 --> 00:24:18,021 Ned is brought in for an interview. 524 00:24:18,064 --> 00:24:19,979 Police ask about his friendship 525 00:24:20,023 --> 00:24:22,678 and working relationship with Carl. 526 00:24:22,721 --> 00:24:24,593 The relationship with Ned Keiser 527 00:24:24,636 --> 00:24:28,727 and Carl and the family was an extensive involved one. 528 00:24:28,771 --> 00:24:31,164 They had known each other for approximately nine years 529 00:24:31,208 --> 00:24:34,254 and at one point when Ned was going through a divorce, 530 00:24:34,298 --> 00:24:36,953 they actually let him move into their house. 531 00:24:36,996 --> 00:24:39,738 [Narrator] Ned says that's why he had a hard time 532 00:24:39,782 --> 00:24:42,132 keeping Carl's affair secret. 533 00:24:42,175 --> 00:24:44,351 Ned had told investigators 534 00:24:44,395 --> 00:24:47,790 that the reason he came forward to Jackie 535 00:24:47,833 --> 00:24:49,618 was because he was friends with both of them 536 00:24:49,661 --> 00:24:52,359 and he just felt that Jackie was being mistreated 537 00:24:52,403 --> 00:24:56,059 by the way Carl was acting and needed to correct it. 538 00:24:56,102 --> 00:24:59,279 [Narrator] Detectives ask Ned if Carl was indebted to him 539 00:24:59,323 --> 00:25:02,108 or if they had any conflict about money. 540 00:25:02,152 --> 00:25:05,024 Ned denied ever having any kind of a fight with Carl. 541 00:25:05,068 --> 00:25:07,636 Ned was asked if he had any involvement, 542 00:25:07,679 --> 00:25:10,334 if he knew anything about Carl's murder. 543 00:25:10,377 --> 00:25:13,685 And he denied having any direct knowledge. 544 00:25:15,382 --> 00:25:17,689 There was nothing that anyone could dig up that would say, 545 00:25:17,733 --> 00:25:20,213 Ned was responsible for Carl's death. 546 00:25:20,257 --> 00:25:23,739 The investigators took a very hard look at him 547 00:25:23,782 --> 00:25:25,349 to see if there was any way 548 00:25:25,392 --> 00:25:28,265 that he could have committed this crime. And 549 00:25:30,223 --> 00:25:31,703 they were able to rule him out. 550 00:25:31,747 --> 00:25:33,270 There was no evidence connecting him 551 00:25:33,313 --> 00:25:34,880 to the murder of Carl Gaimari. 552 00:25:36,752 --> 00:25:39,363 [Narrator] Investigators are forced to let Ned go. 553 00:25:39,406 --> 00:25:43,802 The police talked to everyone that they possibly could. 554 00:25:43,846 --> 00:25:45,151 If they talked to one person 555 00:25:45,195 --> 00:25:46,762 and that person mentioned other people, 556 00:25:46,805 --> 00:25:48,328 they went and talked to those people as well. 557 00:25:48,372 --> 00:25:50,200 And then it gets to a point 558 00:25:50,243 --> 00:25:54,900 where there's just no other leads to pursue at that time. 559 00:25:56,728 --> 00:25:58,730 So the police are essentially waiting for new information. 560 00:26:00,340 --> 00:26:02,299 [Narrator] Authorities once again turn to the public 561 00:26:02,342 --> 00:26:05,345 in an attempt to find the men who killed Carl 562 00:26:05,389 --> 00:26:07,173 and terrorized his family. 563 00:26:07,217 --> 00:26:10,394 Their composites are very critical 564 00:26:10,437 --> 00:26:13,440 in our ongoing investigation in identifying the shooters. 565 00:26:15,268 --> 00:26:16,400 I remember cutting out all the headlines and all that oh, 566 00:26:16,443 --> 00:26:18,271 someone's going to be recognized 567 00:26:18,315 --> 00:26:19,882 with the sketch, something's going to happen with this 568 00:26:19,925 --> 00:26:21,274 and come about from it. 569 00:26:22,798 --> 00:26:24,800 But days would go on and nothing. 570 00:26:24,843 --> 00:26:26,715 When the sketches were released, 571 00:26:26,758 --> 00:26:29,718 there wasn't a lot of information that came in. 572 00:26:29,761 --> 00:26:31,415 Nothing substantial at all. 573 00:26:33,199 --> 00:26:35,071 [Narrator] Detectives hope that the autopsy report 574 00:26:35,114 --> 00:26:37,247 will provide a crucial new lead. 575 00:26:38,335 --> 00:26:40,424 Carl had been shot six times. 576 00:26:40,467 --> 00:26:43,906 The fatal wound had penetrated his chest 577 00:26:43,949 --> 00:26:46,735 into his heart and severed the aorta. 578 00:26:46,778 --> 00:26:49,085 When you have multiple shots like that 579 00:26:49,128 --> 00:26:51,304 from two different guns, 580 00:26:51,348 --> 00:26:53,959 it's apparent that their intent was to kill him. 581 00:26:55,831 --> 00:26:59,225 They shot him again and again and again and again, 582 00:26:59,269 --> 00:27:00,792 total of six times. 583 00:27:02,185 --> 00:27:03,490 [Narrator] Since the medical examiner 584 00:27:03,534 --> 00:27:06,319 didn't find any defense wounds on Carl, 585 00:27:06,363 --> 00:27:08,452 there is no physical evidence on his body 586 00:27:08,495 --> 00:27:10,976 to link to the perpetrators. 587 00:27:11,020 --> 00:27:14,023 Frustration grows when detectives get the report 588 00:27:14,066 --> 00:27:16,460 on the fingerprints found at the crime scene. 589 00:27:18,418 --> 00:27:20,464 There were no known matches 590 00:27:20,507 --> 00:27:22,945 of any of those latent fingerprints. 591 00:27:22,988 --> 00:27:24,816 They had no real suspects. 592 00:27:26,339 --> 00:27:27,950 It didn't seem like anybody 593 00:27:27,993 --> 00:27:29,778 was going to be arrested for this. 594 00:27:29,821 --> 00:27:32,041 [Narrator] With a killer still on the loose, 595 00:27:32,084 --> 00:27:34,347 the town of Inverness is on edge, 596 00:27:34,391 --> 00:27:37,263 while Carl's family lives in fear. 597 00:27:37,307 --> 00:27:39,831 A couple of days after the original murder, 598 00:27:39,875 --> 00:27:44,140 someone had put a threatening note in the mailbox. 599 00:27:45,184 --> 00:27:46,795 Jackie then went to the police 600 00:27:46,838 --> 00:27:48,274 and said she was being threatened, 601 00:27:48,318 --> 00:27:50,320 and that was her concern for her safety. 602 00:27:50,363 --> 00:27:53,410 When I found that out, I was very disturbed. 603 00:27:53,453 --> 00:27:55,194 I was concerned about Jackie and the kids. 604 00:27:55,238 --> 00:27:58,894 Somebody wanted my brother killed. 605 00:27:58,937 --> 00:28:00,809 [Narrator] Two weeks after the murder, 606 00:28:00,852 --> 00:28:03,246 police make a disturbing discovery. 607 00:28:05,074 --> 00:28:08,207 It came to the attention of the initial investigators 608 00:28:08,251 --> 00:28:10,514 that there was a trader, 609 00:28:10,557 --> 00:28:14,866 worked at the Chicago Board of Trade, had just disappeared. 610 00:28:16,215 --> 00:28:18,827 It was suspected there was foul play involved. 611 00:28:18,870 --> 00:28:21,917 [Narrator] Detectives learn his name is Artie Jones. 612 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,354 And he's one of Carl's business associates. 613 00:28:24,397 --> 00:28:27,313 Art Jones knew Carl. 614 00:28:27,357 --> 00:28:29,054 There may have been some money involved 615 00:28:29,098 --> 00:28:30,534 between the two of them. 616 00:28:30,577 --> 00:28:32,144 No one knew what happened to him. 617 00:28:32,188 --> 00:28:36,148 He left for work, drove into the city 618 00:28:36,192 --> 00:28:38,237 and was never heard from again. 619 00:28:39,586 --> 00:28:42,328 [Narrator] Could the two cases be connected? 620 00:28:42,372 --> 00:28:44,026 It now put a new light, a new focus, 621 00:28:44,069 --> 00:28:47,072 with two traders in close proximity, 622 00:28:47,116 --> 00:28:48,987 one dead and one missing. 623 00:28:49,031 --> 00:28:52,034 It put a different spin on this type of investigation. 624 00:28:52,077 --> 00:28:54,036 At that point in time when we heard the news 625 00:28:54,079 --> 00:28:55,864 and it was all over the papers that we thought, 626 00:28:55,907 --> 00:28:57,430 "Wow, and now we know there's something going on 627 00:28:57,474 --> 00:28:59,041 at the Board of Trade." 628 00:28:59,084 --> 00:29:00,999 When you had Carl, 629 00:29:01,043 --> 00:29:04,960 who was killed and being part of a Board of Trade 630 00:29:05,003 --> 00:29:08,050 and then you have Artie who disappears 631 00:29:08,093 --> 00:29:10,182 after going to work at the Board of Trade, 632 00:29:10,226 --> 00:29:12,968 those don't happen often. 633 00:29:13,011 --> 00:29:15,448 When Artie Jones happened that was very concerning. 634 00:29:15,492 --> 00:29:17,450 And it was, you know, we wanted to find out, okay, 635 00:29:19,017 --> 00:29:20,889 who was after Artie and who's after Carl, 636 00:29:20,932 --> 00:29:23,282 if there was somebody in fact, after both of them. 637 00:29:23,326 --> 00:29:26,720 [soft ominous music] 638 00:29:30,986 --> 00:29:33,597 [Narrator] Two weeks after Carl Gaimari's murder, 639 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,166 his co-worker, Artie Jones has vanished. 640 00:29:37,209 --> 00:29:40,082 Detectives are hunting for a potential connection 641 00:29:40,125 --> 00:29:42,040 between the two cases. 642 00:29:42,084 --> 00:29:44,956 Through the Highland Park investigation of Artie, 643 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:46,392 they interviewed his wife 644 00:29:46,436 --> 00:29:51,136 and she said that since the murder of Carl, 645 00:29:51,180 --> 00:29:54,400 he had become very edgy, he was very secretive 646 00:29:54,444 --> 00:29:57,142 about going out to meet some people for business 647 00:29:57,186 --> 00:29:59,318 at that time and then never coming back, 648 00:29:59,362 --> 00:30:01,668 it just heightened that concern 649 00:30:01,712 --> 00:30:03,801 she had about the two being related. 650 00:30:05,107 --> 00:30:06,760 There was just no trace of him. 651 00:30:06,804 --> 00:30:08,501 They ran credit checks. 652 00:30:08,545 --> 00:30:10,373 They did phone records. 653 00:30:10,416 --> 00:30:13,985 They had absolutely nothing of where this individual 654 00:30:14,029 --> 00:30:16,466 may have gone or why he disappeared. 655 00:30:16,509 --> 00:30:20,078 They located his vehicle near O'Hare Airport. 656 00:30:20,122 --> 00:30:22,298 No reason why it was there, no rhyme. 657 00:30:22,341 --> 00:30:23,690 Couldn't put him on an airplane. 658 00:30:23,734 --> 00:30:25,692 There was just nothing. 659 00:30:25,736 --> 00:30:26,563 He was gone. 660 00:30:28,130 --> 00:30:31,046 That investigation was rather lengthy 661 00:30:31,089 --> 00:30:34,005 and they never did locate him. 662 00:30:34,049 --> 00:30:37,313 And eventually his wife had him declared dead. 663 00:30:37,356 --> 00:30:42,187 It's very frustrating to have a case that hits a brick wall. 664 00:30:43,797 --> 00:30:47,018 [Narrator] Carl's family continues to push for answers. 665 00:30:47,062 --> 00:30:47,801 I was persistent. 666 00:30:47,845 --> 00:30:49,368 I would call. 667 00:30:49,412 --> 00:30:51,327 I wanted to hear from the horse's mouth, 668 00:30:51,370 --> 00:30:52,545 from the detectives. 669 00:30:54,330 --> 00:30:56,549 What's going on? What's the next step? 670 00:30:56,593 --> 00:30:58,421 What are you looking at? 671 00:30:58,464 --> 00:31:00,379 Months and months and months turned into a year, 672 00:31:00,423 --> 00:31:02,729 a year turned into two years. 673 00:31:02,773 --> 00:31:06,385 Then you kind of, like, lost faith a little bit. 674 00:31:06,429 --> 00:31:08,387 [Narrator] Carl's loved ones try to cope 675 00:31:08,431 --> 00:31:10,389 with the terrible realization 676 00:31:10,433 --> 00:31:13,131 that his killers may never be found. 677 00:31:13,175 --> 00:31:16,569 The investigation wasn't turning up anything. 678 00:31:16,613 --> 00:31:18,658 They broadcasted and showed those pictures 679 00:31:18,702 --> 00:31:21,400 of the two men for a long time, no one knew anything. 680 00:31:21,444 --> 00:31:23,489 The case is considered a cold case. 681 00:31:25,274 --> 00:31:29,234 [Narrator] 30 years later, the case is reopened. 682 00:31:29,278 --> 00:31:32,629 Detectives Mike Kirby and Bill Stutzman 683 00:31:32,672 --> 00:31:35,762 took over that investigation, gave it new life. 684 00:31:35,806 --> 00:31:38,765 These were people who had investigated, you know, 685 00:31:38,809 --> 00:31:43,074 hundreds of violent crimes in their careers. 686 00:31:43,118 --> 00:31:45,207 I had spent nine and a half years 687 00:31:45,250 --> 00:31:47,252 on a homicide task force. 688 00:31:47,296 --> 00:31:50,777 This was my first actual cold case. 689 00:31:50,821 --> 00:31:53,737 We were told to look at this case from 30 years ago, 690 00:31:53,780 --> 00:31:55,782 right away, you're like 30 years, 691 00:31:55,826 --> 00:31:57,784 who's even going to be alive from back then 692 00:31:57,828 --> 00:31:59,699 that we could talk to? 693 00:31:59,743 --> 00:32:04,269 But when we sat down and we compiled our plan of action, 694 00:32:04,313 --> 00:32:05,836 people we wanted to talk to, 695 00:32:05,879 --> 00:32:07,751 we became extremely excited 696 00:32:07,794 --> 00:32:10,667 about the possibility of this being solved. 697 00:32:12,234 --> 00:32:13,626 [Narrator] As the new detectives 698 00:32:13,670 --> 00:32:15,237 start digging into the cold case, 699 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,717 they are confronted with a daunting problem. 700 00:32:18,805 --> 00:32:20,111 Barrington Police Department 701 00:32:20,155 --> 00:32:21,765 had two floods in their basement 702 00:32:21,808 --> 00:32:23,462 where their evidence was kept. 703 00:32:24,681 --> 00:32:28,511 These floods basically contaminated 704 00:32:28,554 --> 00:32:33,429 any of the evidence ruling it unusable. 705 00:32:33,472 --> 00:32:35,866 Any DNA we might have was gone. 706 00:32:37,389 --> 00:32:38,782 That's a major blow in an investigation. 707 00:32:38,825 --> 00:32:40,914 Most cold cases nowadays are solved 708 00:32:40,958 --> 00:32:43,134 through forensic evidence. 709 00:32:43,178 --> 00:32:44,744 We had none of that. 710 00:32:44,788 --> 00:32:47,138 [Narrator] Then in 2011, 711 00:32:47,182 --> 00:32:51,403 a stunning turn of events reignites the investigation. 712 00:32:51,447 --> 00:32:54,711 We get a phone call, it was shocking to us. 713 00:32:54,754 --> 00:32:56,887 Artie Jones had been located 714 00:32:56,930 --> 00:32:59,759 living under an assumed name in Las Vegas, 715 00:32:59,803 --> 00:33:01,500 part of a fraud investigation 716 00:33:01,544 --> 00:33:04,590 by the federal government had located him. 717 00:33:04,634 --> 00:33:07,811 We were extremely shocked that he was alive. 718 00:33:07,854 --> 00:33:09,900 [Narrator] Investigators fly to Nevada 719 00:33:09,943 --> 00:33:13,643 to interview Artie Jones about Carl's murder. 720 00:33:13,686 --> 00:33:15,253 Well the first thing we wanted to know 721 00:33:15,297 --> 00:33:18,865 was what relationship did Artie Jones 722 00:33:18,909 --> 00:33:20,911 have at all with Carl? 723 00:33:20,954 --> 00:33:23,870 Did they have any, any kind of business transaction? 724 00:33:23,914 --> 00:33:26,351 He claimed he didn't even know him. 725 00:33:26,395 --> 00:33:28,875 So then we focused on why did he disappear then? 726 00:33:28,919 --> 00:33:30,703 When we talked to Mr. Jones, 727 00:33:30,747 --> 00:33:33,837 he said that he was having financial problems. 728 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,579 He didn't like his job, he didn't like his life. 729 00:33:36,622 --> 00:33:38,363 He was unhappy with his marriage. 730 00:33:38,407 --> 00:33:40,278 So he just faked his disappearance. 731 00:33:40,322 --> 00:33:42,715 And that became very clear that he had staged all this 732 00:33:42,759 --> 00:33:44,935 by planting the car by the airport. 733 00:33:44,978 --> 00:33:47,938 The two had no connection. 734 00:33:47,981 --> 00:33:51,550 The Gaimari murder and his disappearance were not related. 735 00:33:51,594 --> 00:33:54,205 [Narrator] With the Artie Jones mystery solved, 736 00:33:54,249 --> 00:33:57,817 detectives are again left with no leads. 737 00:33:57,861 --> 00:34:00,559 What we decided to do was to work this 738 00:34:00,603 --> 00:34:02,518 like it was a fresh case 739 00:34:02,561 --> 00:34:04,389 and just start from the beginning 740 00:34:04,433 --> 00:34:06,696 with no preconceived notions, 741 00:34:06,739 --> 00:34:10,439 no thoughts on where we were going to go with it. 742 00:34:10,482 --> 00:34:14,921 Bill Stutzman and Mike Kirby re-interviewed everyone 743 00:34:14,965 --> 00:34:16,575 who had been interviewed 744 00:34:16,619 --> 00:34:19,578 that they could find back in 1979 and 80, 745 00:34:19,622 --> 00:34:21,841 and one of the people they interviewed 746 00:34:21,885 --> 00:34:24,453 was Jackie's sister Tootsie. 747 00:34:26,063 --> 00:34:27,934 When police interviewed Tootsie the night of Carl's murder, 748 00:34:27,978 --> 00:34:31,590 she told them on the morning of April 30th, 749 00:34:31,634 --> 00:34:35,333 Jackie called Tootsie and told her to come over that day. 750 00:34:35,377 --> 00:34:37,814 And if Tootsie had come that day, 751 00:34:37,857 --> 00:34:40,599 I don't know if she would have been another victim. 752 00:34:40,643 --> 00:34:43,559 [Narrator] Detectives bring Jackie's sister, Tootsie 753 00:34:43,602 --> 00:34:45,387 in for an interview. 754 00:34:45,430 --> 00:34:48,912 As they question her, she makes a jaw dropping revelation. 755 00:34:48,955 --> 00:34:50,957 She said, "I've been ridden with guilt 756 00:34:51,001 --> 00:34:52,568 throughout the years. 757 00:34:52,611 --> 00:34:54,613 I've seen what it did to the kids, 758 00:34:54,657 --> 00:34:56,441 what it did to his family. 759 00:34:57,747 --> 00:34:59,836 I can only be truthful about this. 760 00:34:59,879 --> 00:35:04,449 I can only tell you what was told to me." 761 00:35:04,493 --> 00:35:08,323 Tootsie was having ulcers after the murder of Carl. 762 00:35:08,366 --> 00:35:12,979 She was holding a very big secret inside. 763 00:35:13,023 --> 00:35:16,418 It troubled her to keep this secret for so long. 764 00:35:16,461 --> 00:35:17,897 She just realized, 765 00:35:17,941 --> 00:35:19,943 I believe that it was the right thing to do 766 00:35:19,986 --> 00:35:22,641 and that's what she always wanted to do. 767 00:35:22,685 --> 00:35:26,602 She proceeded to tell us about two months prior 768 00:35:26,645 --> 00:35:28,299 to the murder that Jackie had said, 769 00:35:28,343 --> 00:35:29,822 "I don't love Carl anymore. 770 00:35:29,866 --> 00:35:31,389 I don't want to be with him." 771 00:35:31,433 --> 00:35:33,435 This is the time when Jackie and Carl 772 00:35:33,478 --> 00:35:35,350 were getting back together. 773 00:35:35,393 --> 00:35:37,917 Jackie had supposedly 774 00:35:37,961 --> 00:35:40,964 stopped the affair with Sam Greco. 775 00:35:41,007 --> 00:35:44,533 Based on what we learned, that was not the truth. 776 00:35:44,576 --> 00:35:46,709 Her affair still continued. 777 00:35:46,752 --> 00:35:48,580 It was very shocking. 778 00:35:48,624 --> 00:35:51,496 It gives you a different light view of Jackie as a person 779 00:35:51,540 --> 00:35:53,803 and the type of individual she is. 780 00:35:53,846 --> 00:35:55,674 [Narrator] What Tootsie says next 781 00:35:55,718 --> 00:35:58,373 leaves investigators stunned. 782 00:35:58,416 --> 00:36:01,985 Jackie had told her of a plan 783 00:36:02,028 --> 00:36:03,813 that she had with Sam. 784 00:36:03,856 --> 00:36:05,858 Jackie said to Tootsie, 785 00:36:05,902 --> 00:36:08,644 "We've found a way to get rid of Carl. 786 00:36:08,687 --> 00:36:10,863 We're going to make it look like a home invasion. 787 00:36:10,907 --> 00:36:12,865 Some men are going to come in, 788 00:36:12,909 --> 00:36:14,737 they're going to tie me up 789 00:36:14,780 --> 00:36:16,391 and they're going to wait for Carl 790 00:36:16,434 --> 00:36:18,131 to come home and kill him." 791 00:36:18,175 --> 00:36:19,568 Tootsie didn't couldn't believe what her sister 792 00:36:19,611 --> 00:36:21,483 was saying to her, 793 00:36:21,526 --> 00:36:23,702 and they just kind of ended the conversation with Tootsie 794 00:36:23,746 --> 00:36:27,053 saying, "Jackie, you don't have to do that, divorce him. 795 00:36:27,097 --> 00:36:28,359 Just divorce him." 796 00:36:28,403 --> 00:36:30,361 And Jackie would reply, 797 00:36:30,405 --> 00:36:33,495 "If I divorce him, then I don't get all the money." 798 00:36:33,538 --> 00:36:36,454 Jackie had told her how Carl was going to be murdered, 799 00:36:36,498 --> 00:36:38,500 and that's exactly what happened to him. 800 00:36:39,849 --> 00:36:41,677 It seemed almost mind blowing to think 801 00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:45,550 that Jackie could be involved in such a crime 802 00:36:45,594 --> 00:36:48,771 as to expose her daughters and her infant 803 00:36:48,814 --> 00:36:53,123 to their father getting killed in the home. 804 00:36:54,951 --> 00:36:56,909 [Narrator] Investigators tell Tootsie 805 00:36:56,953 --> 00:37:00,826 they'll need more than just her word to lay charges. 806 00:37:00,870 --> 00:37:03,568 They decided to ask her 807 00:37:03,612 --> 00:37:07,398 if she would be willing to record conversations 808 00:37:07,442 --> 00:37:09,400 with her sister Jackie. 809 00:37:09,444 --> 00:37:12,925 At first Tootsie said no, she didn't want to do it. 810 00:37:12,969 --> 00:37:16,494 She didn't want to hurt Jackie. 811 00:37:16,538 --> 00:37:19,932 We had emphasized with her that, no, 812 00:37:19,976 --> 00:37:24,850 we're not saying Jackie physically killed Carl, 813 00:37:24,894 --> 00:37:29,725 but she was part of a plan in which Carl was killed. 814 00:37:29,768 --> 00:37:31,770 And we had said, "We're asking you 815 00:37:31,814 --> 00:37:34,599 to put an open-ended statement to her 816 00:37:34,643 --> 00:37:36,775 and see how she responds." 817 00:37:36,819 --> 00:37:38,647 She agreed to do it. 818 00:37:38,690 --> 00:37:41,214 That was the missing key to make this case go forward. 819 00:37:42,781 --> 00:37:45,828 [soft ominous music] 820 00:37:48,918 --> 00:37:50,746 [Narrator] More than 30 years 821 00:37:50,789 --> 00:37:53,270 after the cold-blooded killing of father of four, 822 00:37:53,314 --> 00:37:56,578 Carl Gaimari, police learn his wife Jackie 823 00:37:56,621 --> 00:38:00,756 plotted his murder with her former lover Sam Greco. 824 00:38:00,799 --> 00:38:04,673 But investigators need hard evidence to arrest her. 825 00:38:04,716 --> 00:38:07,153 They convince Jackie's sister Tootsie 826 00:38:07,197 --> 00:38:09,242 to record a conversation. 827 00:39:02,339 --> 00:39:07,344 Those recorded conversations are devastating. 828 00:39:08,867 --> 00:39:11,392 Jackie saying, "Can you lie for me? 829 00:39:13,176 --> 00:39:14,873 Can't you say you forget?" 830 00:39:14,917 --> 00:39:18,268 There was truth to what Tootsie was saying. 831 00:39:18,311 --> 00:39:20,270 And that's why Jackie wanted her to lie for her. 832 00:39:20,313 --> 00:39:22,620 That was very damaging evidence. 833 00:39:22,664 --> 00:39:26,755 Those recordings were all that were needed 834 00:39:28,147 --> 00:39:29,975 to have an arrest warrant issued. 835 00:39:30,019 --> 00:39:32,282 [Narrator] Police bring Jackie down to the station. 836 00:39:32,325 --> 00:39:34,980 We did not tell her she was under arrest, 837 00:39:35,024 --> 00:39:36,721 but she was not going anywhere. 838 00:39:36,765 --> 00:39:38,157 We had the arrest warrant. 839 00:39:38,201 --> 00:39:39,768 During the course of the interview 840 00:39:39,811 --> 00:39:42,335 not only did we tell her we talked to Tootsie 841 00:39:42,379 --> 00:39:44,686 who told us about their conversation. 842 00:39:44,729 --> 00:39:47,819 We played portions for Jackie. 843 00:40:14,150 --> 00:40:16,718 [Narrator] Confronted by her own words, 844 00:40:16,761 --> 00:40:20,373 Jackie tries to put the blame on her former lover Sam. 845 00:40:22,201 --> 00:40:26,336 She wanted to be able to say, "Yes, okay, early on, 846 00:40:26,379 --> 00:40:27,990 I said, 'Let's do this.' 847 00:40:28,033 --> 00:40:29,644 But then I backed out. 848 00:40:29,687 --> 00:40:31,297 I didn't want to have anything to do with it. 849 00:40:31,341 --> 00:40:34,910 So therefore I'm not guilty of Carl's murder." 850 00:40:34,953 --> 00:40:36,781 There are so many things Jackie did 851 00:40:36,825 --> 00:40:39,436 that tells you what kind of a person she is. 852 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,046 She wanted to be with Sam. 853 00:40:41,090 --> 00:40:42,787 She didn't want to be with Carl. 854 00:40:42,831 --> 00:40:44,223 After the murder, 855 00:40:44,267 --> 00:40:46,399 Sam and Jackie married a few months later. 856 00:40:46,443 --> 00:40:50,708 Several years later Sam and Jackie were divorced. 857 00:40:50,752 --> 00:40:53,276 We continued to have full force investigation 858 00:40:53,319 --> 00:40:55,321 into Sam Greco's involvement 859 00:40:55,365 --> 00:40:57,454 as also pursuing the two shooters. 860 00:40:58,411 --> 00:41:01,458 And before we could 861 00:41:01,502 --> 00:41:05,027 gain enough evidence to charge him, 862 00:41:05,070 --> 00:41:07,203 he passed away from his medical conditions. 863 00:41:08,247 --> 00:41:11,424 [Narrator] On March 27th, 2013 864 00:41:11,468 --> 00:41:15,080 Jackie alone is charged with the first-degree murder 865 00:41:15,124 --> 00:41:18,040 of her husband Carl Gaimari. 866 00:41:18,083 --> 00:41:20,738 Jackie was the true monster. 867 00:41:22,435 --> 00:41:25,917 Without Jackie, this crime never would have happened. 868 00:41:27,745 --> 00:41:31,227 [Narrator] In 2016, a jury finds Jackie guilty, 869 00:41:31,270 --> 00:41:33,925 but the verdict is overturned on appeal. 870 00:41:33,969 --> 00:41:36,493 Prosecutors offer Jackie a deal. 871 00:41:36,537 --> 00:41:38,756 She pleads guilty to murder 872 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,367 and is sentenced to 22 years in prison. 873 00:41:42,934 --> 00:41:45,720 Justice finally, finally was served. 874 00:41:45,763 --> 00:41:48,113 Couldn't believe it. Couldn't believe it. 875 00:41:48,157 --> 00:41:50,202 She was a true sociopath 876 00:41:50,246 --> 00:41:53,292 and not just for taking Carl's life, 877 00:41:53,336 --> 00:41:55,904 but because of what she did to her children. 878 00:41:55,947 --> 00:41:58,297 She chose to have her children 879 00:41:58,341 --> 00:42:03,172 be victims of this traumatic event, 880 00:42:03,215 --> 00:42:06,305 just for her own selfish needs to get rid of her husband. 881 00:42:07,568 --> 00:42:09,787 A woman that involves her own children 882 00:42:11,963 --> 00:42:14,487 in a scheme, in a plan, 883 00:42:15,967 --> 00:42:18,317 in a plot to have their father murdered, 884 00:42:18,361 --> 00:42:20,232 her husband murdered. 885 00:42:20,276 --> 00:42:21,538 I don't know. If you ask me that's not even human. 886 00:42:21,582 --> 00:42:23,322 That's the devil. 887 00:42:23,366 --> 00:42:25,760 [Narrator] Four decades after the murder, 888 00:42:25,803 --> 00:42:29,067 police are still searching for the gunmen. 889 00:42:29,111 --> 00:42:33,855 This remains an open and active investigation. 890 00:42:33,898 --> 00:42:35,465 It's never going to stop. 891 00:42:36,597 --> 00:42:38,860 If there's any new information 892 00:42:38,903 --> 00:42:40,905 the police are going to follow up on it. 893 00:42:42,820 --> 00:42:44,474 No matter how long those shooters live 894 00:42:44,517 --> 00:42:47,085 and how much time passes, 895 00:42:47,129 --> 00:42:49,435 they can never stop looking over their shoulder. 896 00:42:52,264 --> 00:42:54,223 My brother was a good guy. 897 00:42:54,266 --> 00:42:57,356 He was very determined to succeed in anything he did. 898 00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,271 To see how he would have been when his children 899 00:42:59,315 --> 00:43:01,447 got older would have been a wonderful thing to happen 900 00:43:01,491 --> 00:43:03,928 and I'm sure he would have loved it. 901 00:43:05,626 --> 00:43:08,193 Who knows how our lives would have been, you know? 902 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:11,849 A lot of missed opportunities. 903 00:43:11,893 --> 00:43:14,504 A lot of things that never happened. 904 00:43:14,547 --> 00:43:16,549 I lost a brother and you know, 905 00:43:16,593 --> 00:43:19,552 somebody to look up to and somebody to experience life with, 906 00:43:19,596 --> 00:43:21,337 you know, the rest of the way. 907 00:43:21,380 --> 00:43:22,904 I miss Carl a lot.