1 00:01:41,803 --> 00:01:43,963 Checking your pulse? 2 00:01:44,043 --> 00:01:45,883 -Sorry? -Checking your pulse? 3 00:01:45,963 --> 00:01:49,963 No. Thanks for coming on a Sunday. 4 00:01:50,603 --> 00:01:52,123 No worries. 5 00:01:52,203 --> 00:01:53,043 Is Jim here? 6 00:01:53,123 --> 00:01:55,683 -Yes, he's waiting in the pavilion. -Okay, good. 7 00:01:55,763 --> 00:01:57,803 -Jim! -Daniel. 8 00:01:57,883 --> 00:02:00,363 -Good to see you. How are you? -I'm great, and you? 9 00:02:00,443 --> 00:02:02,163 -Good. Thanks for coming. -No problem. 10 00:02:02,243 --> 00:02:05,123 Always a pleasure to come over here and get down to the nitty-gritty. 11 00:02:05,203 --> 00:02:06,803 -Yeah. -How's Arsenal doing? 12 00:02:06,883 --> 00:02:08,123 Terrible, they lost again. 13 00:02:08,203 --> 00:02:11,923 -They'd be better off with you in charge. -Your words, not mine. 14 00:02:12,003 --> 00:02:13,403 So… 15 00:02:13,483 --> 00:02:17,043 As you know, we have an urgent need to maximize revenue, 16 00:02:17,123 --> 00:02:19,723 or at least bring down our cost base. 17 00:02:19,803 --> 00:02:23,283 If this business is gonna thrive, we have to reduce the cost of the music. 18 00:02:23,363 --> 00:02:26,203 That's why we spent the last few years testing Discovery Max, 19 00:02:26,283 --> 00:02:28,643 and now, finally, we have some useful data. 20 00:02:29,403 --> 00:02:30,403 Yeah, and…? 21 00:02:31,883 --> 00:02:34,523 -Fucking fantastic. -Yeah? 22 00:02:34,603 --> 00:02:38,683 The artists have seen their followers go through the roof. They fucking love this. 23 00:02:38,763 --> 00:02:40,523 -Alright. -When they get the promotion boost, 24 00:02:41,123 --> 00:02:45,163 they are seeing listener growth of 40, 50, even 100%. 25 00:02:45,243 --> 00:02:48,203 Concert sales and merch sales are going up… 26 00:02:48,283 --> 00:02:50,803 Everybody who signed up to it said they'd do it again. 27 00:02:50,883 --> 00:02:53,403 Why don't we roll it out across the whole company? 28 00:02:53,483 --> 00:02:55,283 Because it's highly contentious. 29 00:02:55,363 --> 00:02:59,323 We only promote bands that agree to hand back a cut of their royalty. 30 00:02:59,403 --> 00:03:02,603 The artists consent to everything. We're not charging anyone a penny. 31 00:03:02,683 --> 00:03:07,243 It's a win-win situation, a new business model for a new kind of music industry. 32 00:03:07,323 --> 00:03:09,803 The Musicians' Union calls it payola. 33 00:03:09,883 --> 00:03:12,363 And Senator Madison Landy of the US Senate 34 00:03:13,043 --> 00:03:16,843 wrote Spotify a letter expressing significant concern 35 00:03:16,923 --> 00:03:20,843 that we are participating in anti-competitive activities. 36 00:03:20,923 --> 00:03:22,563 Well, that's not fucking good. 37 00:03:23,403 --> 00:03:27,003 Bottom line is that 70% of everything we bring in on the music, 38 00:03:27,083 --> 00:03:30,403 goes straight back to the record companies. 70%! 39 00:03:30,483 --> 00:03:33,083 What other business has to deal with those kind of costs? 40 00:03:33,163 --> 00:03:36,443 Discovery Max is Spotify doing things its own way. 41 00:03:36,523 --> 00:03:39,123 It's us showing innovation, reshaping music. 42 00:03:39,203 --> 00:03:41,403 It's us putting power into musicians' hands. 43 00:03:41,483 --> 00:03:43,123 By halving their royalties. 44 00:03:43,203 --> 00:03:45,763 If we don't push the boundaries, we are not gonna survive. 45 00:03:45,843 --> 00:03:49,203 Listen, what you and your team have done is amazing, and I love it, 46 00:03:49,283 --> 00:03:51,683 but we do need to take it step by step. I mean… 47 00:03:51,763 --> 00:03:57,683 For now, let's just… let's roll it out in a way that keeps everyone onside, okay? 48 00:04:03,483 --> 00:04:04,803 -Hi. -Hi. 49 00:04:04,883 --> 00:04:06,963 -How was the meeting? -It was good. 50 00:04:07,043 --> 00:04:08,723 Is this the new architect? 51 00:04:09,883 --> 00:04:12,163 -That's exactly what it is. -Yeah, okay. 52 00:04:12,883 --> 00:04:16,683 -Are we tearing it all down? -Yes. Yes, I think so. 53 00:04:17,283 --> 00:04:18,363 Am I picking the kids up today? 54 00:04:18,443 --> 00:04:21,763 -No. No, your mom will do that. -Oh, okay. 55 00:04:22,683 --> 00:04:27,523 Hey… You are not worried? About the protests? 56 00:04:27,603 --> 00:04:29,403 -No. -No? 57 00:04:30,283 --> 00:04:31,563 But I can see that you are. 58 00:04:33,723 --> 00:04:36,083 I'm just worried that they will try to blame you. 59 00:04:36,163 --> 00:04:37,483 No, they won't. 60 00:04:37,563 --> 00:04:41,283 Look at this. This singer has been on Spotify since the start. 61 00:04:41,363 --> 00:04:44,163 You know why she stays? Because she knows we're the best. 62 00:04:44,763 --> 00:04:48,003 It's as simple as that. I promise. 63 00:04:48,843 --> 00:04:50,483 Spotify, what we want… 64 00:04:50,563 --> 00:04:53,203 A small but persistent group 65 00:04:53,283 --> 00:04:58,283 has been protesting for three weeks outside Spotify's headquarters. 66 00:04:58,363 --> 00:05:02,363 We are all activists now. They have forced us into it. 67 00:05:02,443 --> 00:05:07,443 The protest leader, Nadja Johansson, a former musician, 68 00:05:07,523 --> 00:05:10,243 who feels forced to act because of the situation… 69 00:05:10,323 --> 00:05:13,843 Let's see… You know what? Let's do this later. 70 00:05:13,923 --> 00:05:17,123 You have to go to school. I don't want you to be late today. 71 00:05:17,203 --> 00:05:18,763 Can I have an iPhone? 72 00:05:23,283 --> 00:05:25,563 I can't afford an iPhone, honey. 73 00:05:25,643 --> 00:05:28,003 But all of my friends have one. 74 00:05:28,083 --> 00:05:29,803 Spotify, what we want… 75 00:05:29,883 --> 00:05:32,603 I know… but… 76 00:05:33,443 --> 00:05:36,083 Hey, there's food in the fridge. 77 00:05:36,163 --> 00:05:37,683 I'm working late tonight. 78 00:05:38,483 --> 00:05:41,323 And after work, I have a gig. 79 00:05:42,123 --> 00:05:46,243 And the more gigs I get, the closer we are to an iPhone. 80 00:05:46,323 --> 00:05:47,203 -Right? -Yes. 81 00:05:48,523 --> 00:05:51,243 Go on. Here, don't forget your bag. 82 00:05:55,443 --> 00:05:58,203 I'm standing here with Spotify's CEO Daniel Ek. 83 00:05:58,283 --> 00:06:02,203 What do you say to the shareholders who worry about the negative reactions? 84 00:06:03,043 --> 00:06:04,923 No, I'm not worried about that. 85 00:06:05,003 --> 00:06:07,203 There will always be people who are opposed to success… 86 00:06:19,443 --> 00:06:20,643 The doors are closing. 87 00:06:30,843 --> 00:06:32,163 First floor. 88 00:07:16,083 --> 00:07:18,563 -Great gig. -Thanks. 89 00:07:18,643 --> 00:07:22,283 -I've transferred the money. -Yes, great. See you. 90 00:07:22,363 --> 00:07:23,443 See you. Take care. 91 00:07:36,043 --> 00:07:38,763 You've only given me half. What's going on? 92 00:07:40,803 --> 00:07:43,923 I didn't sell as much beer today as last time or the time before that. 93 00:07:46,123 --> 00:07:50,083 Hang on. I played a gig that you hired me for. 94 00:07:50,163 --> 00:07:54,403 Yeah, but do you want me to go bust just to let you play? 95 00:07:55,403 --> 00:07:59,643 I mean, you get free PR by playing here. People go home and stream your music. 96 00:07:59,723 --> 00:08:01,203 That's great for you. 97 00:09:21,523 --> 00:09:25,283 Okay, I… I don't know how this will turn out, 98 00:09:25,963 --> 00:09:29,643 but I have reached a point where there's nothing more I can do. 99 00:09:30,283 --> 00:09:31,923 I'm a musician. 100 00:09:32,683 --> 00:09:37,123 I have released and written six albums in the last ten years. 101 00:09:37,203 --> 00:09:42,723 I've had many hits. My songs are played close to 200,000 times a month on Spotify. 102 00:09:43,323 --> 00:09:46,963 But I still can't pay my rent. 103 00:09:47,923 --> 00:09:51,443 I take all the gigs I can get, I have a job on the side, 104 00:09:51,523 --> 00:09:55,043 everything for the privilege to make music. 105 00:09:55,123 --> 00:09:59,283 Even though I tell myself every day that soon things might improve, 106 00:09:59,363 --> 00:10:04,043 if I write the right song, or end up on the right playlist, things will change. 107 00:10:04,123 --> 00:10:08,043 But the truth is that the system is broken. 108 00:10:09,243 --> 00:10:13,923 The music industry made 23 million dollars last year. 109 00:10:14,003 --> 00:10:15,843 The record companies thrive. 110 00:10:15,923 --> 00:10:19,243 They even made more money than they did before piracy. 111 00:10:20,003 --> 00:10:23,683 The ten people who make the most money in Sweden 112 00:10:23,763 --> 00:10:26,403 come from the same streaming company every year. 113 00:10:27,123 --> 00:10:31,283 Despite that, the artists who create the music for their platform 114 00:10:31,363 --> 00:10:33,323 can barely survive. 115 00:10:34,563 --> 00:10:35,723 Daniel… 116 00:10:35,803 --> 00:10:38,363 Today you liked one of my songs. 117 00:10:38,443 --> 00:10:42,803 You added it to your playlist, which is awesome. 118 00:10:43,803 --> 00:10:48,323 But if you really liked it, sit down and talk to us. 119 00:10:49,523 --> 00:10:53,723 Help us have a new discussion about the streaming business. 120 00:10:54,363 --> 00:11:00,963 Help us create a new system, a music industry where we can actually survive. 121 00:11:22,443 --> 00:11:23,963 Nadja? What's going on? 122 00:11:24,043 --> 00:11:29,203 I love you! You are awesome! Oh, you are so great! Thank you! 123 00:11:29,283 --> 00:11:32,563 -Have you completely lost it? -No, your post! 124 00:11:32,643 --> 00:11:36,323 You've done more with one video that we've done with 15 protests. 125 00:11:36,403 --> 00:11:38,443 And it's perfect that it was you! 126 00:11:38,523 --> 00:11:42,163 This is really good to hear, but I have to get Naomi ready for school. 127 00:11:42,243 --> 00:11:43,963 Then I've got to go work, so I… 128 00:11:44,043 --> 00:11:47,323 Are you kidding? This is so fucking big! 129 00:11:48,003 --> 00:11:50,003 What the hell are you talking about? 130 00:11:51,803 --> 00:11:53,243 -Everything okay? -Absolutely. 131 00:11:54,043 --> 00:11:58,283 I know this is something you dismissed a long time ago and… 132 00:11:59,123 --> 00:12:03,763 Well, you may not like me bringing it up, but considering the situation and… 133 00:12:03,843 --> 00:12:06,643 I'm sorry to interrupt, but have you seen the news? 134 00:12:06,723 --> 00:12:08,523 -No. -Do it. 135 00:12:12,363 --> 00:12:16,123 Bobbi Thomasson, musician and childhood friend of Daniel Ek 136 00:12:16,203 --> 00:12:20,763 posted an emotional and personal video on her Instagram story yesterday. 137 00:12:20,843 --> 00:12:24,203 Daniel, today you liked one of my songs. 138 00:12:24,283 --> 00:12:29,003 You added it to your playlist, which is awesome. 139 00:12:29,083 --> 00:12:33,923 But if you really liked it, sit down and talk to us. 140 00:12:34,003 --> 00:12:38,883 Since last night, the video has been shared more than 12,000 times, 141 00:12:38,963 --> 00:12:42,483 and has the support from other musicians. 142 00:12:42,563 --> 00:12:48,003 Everybody, this is Bobbi Thomasson, the woman who knows how to get to Daniel Ek. 143 00:12:52,123 --> 00:12:54,163 -Hi. -Way to go, girl! 144 00:12:55,363 --> 00:12:56,763 We've been busy for months, 145 00:12:56,843 --> 00:13:00,763 but nobody's cared until now, after your post. 146 00:13:00,843 --> 00:13:01,683 -Bobbi. -Rhonda. 147 00:13:01,763 --> 00:13:02,603 Hi. 148 00:13:02,683 --> 00:13:04,363 We put your video on our feed. 149 00:13:04,443 --> 00:13:06,923 It's had over 20,000 likes in under two hours. 150 00:13:07,883 --> 00:13:10,763 The hashtag Scratch the Record, is trending since yesterday. 151 00:13:10,843 --> 00:13:14,003 We managed to connect. Now we are all in. 152 00:13:14,083 --> 00:13:17,043 No, no, no, I don't think I'm the right person for this. 153 00:13:17,123 --> 00:13:21,163 I just posted a video because I was tired and cranky. 154 00:13:21,243 --> 00:13:23,403 Yes, sure you are. 155 00:13:23,483 --> 00:13:27,483 We are all activists now. They've fucking forced us into it. 156 00:13:27,563 --> 00:13:29,963 Well, this may sound a bit strange, 157 00:13:30,043 --> 00:13:32,963 but I know Daniel Ek personally, okay? 158 00:13:33,043 --> 00:13:38,523 We grew up together, and I mean, I support you 100%, of course, 159 00:13:38,603 --> 00:13:41,683 but I posted the video because I wanted to start a dialogue. 160 00:13:41,763 --> 00:13:44,603 And regardless, I have to wait and see what he says. 161 00:13:46,443 --> 00:13:49,923 So… you haven't checked your Instagram yet? 162 00:13:51,603 --> 00:13:54,003 He stopped following you this morning. 163 00:13:54,083 --> 00:13:57,363 Daniel isn't interested in having a dialogue. 164 00:13:57,443 --> 00:13:59,283 None of them are. 165 00:13:59,363 --> 00:14:02,363 They want us to shut up and they want us to go away. 166 00:14:07,603 --> 00:14:11,923 Just so you know, there's another protest outside the headquarters. 167 00:14:13,643 --> 00:14:14,483 Okay. 168 00:14:17,163 --> 00:14:19,843 Daniel, would you mind looking at this? 169 00:14:19,923 --> 00:14:22,083 Yeah. What's this? 170 00:14:22,683 --> 00:14:24,883 It's a proposed sale of Spotify. 171 00:14:25,643 --> 00:14:28,523 I know that this isn't something you've considered before, 172 00:14:28,603 --> 00:14:33,203 but every CEO, every founder, has to choose their moment. 173 00:14:33,283 --> 00:14:36,963 -You've had an amazing journey. -No, I won't sell Spotify. 174 00:14:37,043 --> 00:14:40,883 You hired me to have somebody who always tells you how things are. 175 00:14:40,963 --> 00:14:43,923 As things are, the market is still in our favor. 176 00:14:44,003 --> 00:14:47,963 But what will you do when the market value drops below the IPO? 177 00:14:48,043 --> 00:14:53,803 I hired you because you are pragmatic and stubborn, but this is too much. 178 00:14:54,683 --> 00:14:57,603 Okay, so how do we get out of this one? 179 00:14:58,363 --> 00:14:59,643 We'll have to borrow more. 180 00:14:59,723 --> 00:15:03,203 Daniel, last year we borrowed one billion dollars. 181 00:15:03,283 --> 00:15:05,763 We'll borrow more to get through this. 182 00:15:05,843 --> 00:15:10,563 We'll do some acquisitions, we'll invest in innovative tech, like we always have. 183 00:15:10,643 --> 00:15:12,923 This is your way out. 184 00:15:13,003 --> 00:15:15,443 If you sell Spotify, you protect your legacy. 185 00:15:15,523 --> 00:15:18,803 You protect your brand, you protect what you have tried to build… 186 00:15:18,883 --> 00:15:21,083 I won't sell Spotify, I… 187 00:15:24,843 --> 00:15:26,483 I haven't done what I wanted yet. 188 00:15:26,563 --> 00:15:28,723 -Daniel… -What? 189 00:15:33,003 --> 00:15:36,723 Scratch the Record! Scratch the Record! 190 00:15:38,483 --> 00:15:41,923 Okay, keep your heads down. Security is here. 191 00:15:59,363 --> 00:16:05,083 Scratch the Record! Scratch the Record! 192 00:16:05,163 --> 00:16:07,483 -Daniel, this is outrageous! -Yeah, I know. 193 00:16:07,563 --> 00:16:09,763 -Just, just relax, okay? -Relax? 194 00:16:09,843 --> 00:16:12,523 The business model we have is fine. 195 00:16:12,603 --> 00:16:16,603 We have new content, we'll give them more support and soon we'll have Discovery Max. 196 00:16:16,683 --> 00:16:18,403 There's no reason to panic. 197 00:16:21,323 --> 00:16:23,843 I'm not here as Daniel Ek's enemy. 198 00:16:23,923 --> 00:16:26,363 I'm here as someone who used to know him, 199 00:16:26,443 --> 00:16:30,403 and who believed in the promises he gave me and other musicians. 200 00:16:30,483 --> 00:16:31,603 Scratch the record! 201 00:16:31,683 --> 00:16:35,483 I'm here today to say that enough is enough. 202 00:16:35,563 --> 00:16:38,243 I have told my friends to be patient. 203 00:16:38,323 --> 00:16:40,843 I've really tried to believe in him. 204 00:16:40,923 --> 00:16:45,483 But the average salary for an employee at Spotify is 130,000 dollars, 205 00:16:45,563 --> 00:16:49,163 while the musicians on his platform are on their knees. 206 00:16:50,363 --> 00:16:55,563 Daniel Ek, it's time for you to "Scratch the Record". 207 00:16:55,643 --> 00:17:01,283 It's time for you to sit down and talk to us for real this time. 208 00:17:01,963 --> 00:17:03,603 -Unbelievable. -Yeah. 209 00:17:03,683 --> 00:17:06,163 This is distracting the office. It's a public disturbance. 210 00:17:06,243 --> 00:17:08,843 -We should call the police. -We can't call the police. 211 00:17:08,923 --> 00:17:13,083 This is a platform for musicians. What will it look like if they're arrested? 212 00:17:13,162 --> 00:17:14,642 Exactly. 213 00:17:14,723 --> 00:17:17,963 Okay, it looks like the police decided to turn up anyway. 214 00:17:25,243 --> 00:17:26,642 Shit. 215 00:17:27,763 --> 00:17:30,283 Scratch the Record! 216 00:17:31,323 --> 00:17:33,283 Let her go! 217 00:17:59,563 --> 00:18:01,083 This is bad, Daniel. 218 00:18:05,123 --> 00:18:07,283 It's only a story because we're in Sweden. 219 00:18:08,043 --> 00:18:10,163 We must not forget we are listed in New York. 220 00:18:10,243 --> 00:18:12,643 We have more Chinese shareholders than Swedish ones. 221 00:18:12,723 --> 00:18:16,403 But this may affect your chances of borrowing money. You know what? 222 00:18:16,483 --> 00:18:18,923 I'm working myself to death and I run from bank to bank. 223 00:18:19,003 --> 00:18:21,403 Do you know what the first thing they ask about is? 224 00:18:22,003 --> 00:18:23,563 These protests. 225 00:18:24,683 --> 00:18:28,203 Daniel… you have made it clear that you don't want to sell Spotify. 226 00:18:28,283 --> 00:18:31,803 You want me to find more money that will enable new innovations. 227 00:18:32,443 --> 00:18:36,203 If that's the case, you will have to make sure this doesn't get any bigger. 228 00:18:38,243 --> 00:18:40,843 One thing I've learned in politics… 229 00:18:41,443 --> 00:18:43,723 "Never let yourself become the story." 230 00:18:59,803 --> 00:19:02,403 -Do you want to play with us, Daddy? -I'll play later. 231 00:19:06,363 --> 00:19:07,323 Hi. 232 00:19:08,723 --> 00:19:09,803 How are you? 233 00:19:12,323 --> 00:19:13,523 You're seen everywhere, Daniel. 234 00:19:15,123 --> 00:19:17,483 These protests, they won't die down. 235 00:19:17,563 --> 00:19:22,603 And all those damn opinionated people who say Spotify needs to change, 236 00:19:22,683 --> 00:19:26,483 -what do they mean? -Are these the new designs? 237 00:19:27,723 --> 00:19:29,443 -Yes. -Mm. 238 00:19:29,523 --> 00:19:30,763 Yes, these are the designs. 239 00:19:31,563 --> 00:19:36,403 Ernst was a bit worried that you might think it's a bit too big. 240 00:19:36,483 --> 00:19:40,243 Don't compromise. I think we should make it even bigger. 241 00:19:47,923 --> 00:19:49,803 Did you get hold of Sundin? 242 00:19:52,203 --> 00:19:55,203 Okay, tell that traitor that I'm coming now. 243 00:19:56,403 --> 00:19:58,083 -Hi. -Hi! 244 00:19:58,163 --> 00:19:59,723 How are you doing? Nice to see you. 245 00:19:59,803 --> 00:20:03,203 -And you. -Yeah. How are you doing? 246 00:20:03,283 --> 00:20:07,003 -Yeah, well… I'm alive. -Yeah, great. 247 00:20:07,083 --> 00:20:11,523 Discovery Max looked… I saw some test results. They were… 248 00:20:11,603 --> 00:20:14,483 Hey, this is the deal. I need you to do something. 249 00:20:14,563 --> 00:20:15,923 Okay… 250 00:20:16,003 --> 00:20:18,643 I need you to call Bobbi Thomasson. 251 00:20:19,843 --> 00:20:22,923 I want you to explain to her that this thing she's doing, 252 00:20:23,003 --> 00:20:24,483 it can only ruin things. 253 00:20:24,563 --> 00:20:28,163 It's based on a complete misunderstanding of how Spotify works. 254 00:20:28,243 --> 00:20:33,163 I haven't seen Bobbi for about ten years, I think. 255 00:20:33,243 --> 00:20:36,203 I can try to get hold of her contact details, and then you can… 256 00:20:36,283 --> 00:20:39,043 Hold on… Try? 257 00:20:39,123 --> 00:20:41,683 -Yes, I can try to get hold of… -She was your artist. 258 00:20:41,763 --> 00:20:44,243 You were the one who signed her. You promoted her. 259 00:20:45,483 --> 00:20:47,923 -You can contact her. -No, I can't. 260 00:20:55,363 --> 00:20:56,483 I get it. 261 00:20:58,283 --> 00:21:00,683 You use them, sign them, earn money from them, 262 00:21:00,763 --> 00:21:03,043 and when you're done, you forget them. 263 00:21:03,123 --> 00:21:05,523 When Bobbi is upset about her earnings, 264 00:21:06,323 --> 00:21:08,923 does she turn to Universal or BMG? 265 00:21:09,003 --> 00:21:13,283 Does she turn to any of the people who are responsible for what she earns? 266 00:21:13,363 --> 00:21:19,923 No, she and her fucking friends set up camp outside my office, 267 00:21:20,003 --> 00:21:22,123 throwing all their shit at me. 268 00:21:22,203 --> 00:21:24,603 Did I sign her? Did I encourage her? 269 00:21:24,683 --> 00:21:29,763 Did I encourage any of these millions of people who live in that fantasy 270 00:21:29,843 --> 00:21:33,563 that you have sold them, that they will be the next Drake, Taylor Swift, 271 00:21:33,643 --> 00:21:38,083 getting them to sign shameful contracts they are too young to understand? 272 00:21:40,403 --> 00:21:42,243 But who do they hold responsible? Me! 273 00:21:44,243 --> 00:21:46,923 But you don't care! Of course not! Why would you? 274 00:21:47,003 --> 00:21:50,523 You and the record companies got what you wanted, 70% of everything we earn. 275 00:21:51,323 --> 00:21:52,843 You've got a great deal there. 276 00:21:53,523 --> 00:21:56,963 And you got a stupid bastard who agreed to it all. 277 00:22:04,123 --> 00:22:06,043 I'll be a while, but you can wait here. 278 00:23:01,123 --> 00:23:02,403 At a bistro in Rågsved? 279 00:23:05,403 --> 00:23:08,003 -Why are you here, Daniel? -I think we should talk. 280 00:23:08,083 --> 00:23:10,283 Now? When I have a gig? 281 00:23:13,123 --> 00:23:18,003 I don't care that other people protest. But you, Bobbi, you know me. 282 00:23:19,043 --> 00:23:22,403 That's why I joined them. If you don't know someone, you won't listen. 283 00:23:22,483 --> 00:23:24,563 But what is it you want me to listen to? 284 00:23:24,643 --> 00:23:26,883 People who refuse to accept the world has changed? 285 00:23:26,963 --> 00:23:31,163 Nothing has changed! It's a fucking nightmare. 286 00:23:32,323 --> 00:23:36,603 Maybe you haven't understood how to make the most of Spotify. 287 00:23:36,683 --> 00:23:40,163 -Please, don't do this. -Listen to me. I'll just say one thing. 288 00:23:40,243 --> 00:23:45,723 If you let me… I will show you how to make the most of Spotify. 289 00:23:45,803 --> 00:23:51,283 And then? Will you tell all the other 1.5 million artists your secrets, too? 290 00:23:51,363 --> 00:23:56,043 You remember how it was? You told me that Pirate Bay uploads all of your songs. 291 00:23:56,123 --> 00:24:00,843 So we should be grateful that they aren't stealing from us like 15 years ago? 292 00:24:00,923 --> 00:24:03,083 No, that's not what I mean. 293 00:24:03,163 --> 00:24:05,163 You're talking about your journey… 294 00:24:06,283 --> 00:24:08,003 But what about our journey? 295 00:24:08,083 --> 00:24:13,123 All the millions of musicians who have no control of the payments. 296 00:24:13,203 --> 00:24:15,603 It can't be my responsibility to help the careers of all the artists. 297 00:24:15,683 --> 00:24:20,483 Why not? You are the most powerful person in the music industry right now. 298 00:24:21,243 --> 00:24:24,243 You are the system and that's what you wanted. 299 00:24:25,243 --> 00:24:29,283 You wanted to create the biggest music platform. 300 00:24:30,083 --> 00:24:32,803 -Bobbi, it's time. -Okay. 301 00:24:34,403 --> 00:24:37,603 -Nice place… -It's crap. 302 00:24:37,683 --> 00:24:40,843 This place… The whole point is that nobody listens. 303 00:24:43,203 --> 00:24:44,483 Bobbi, let me help you. 304 00:24:45,803 --> 00:24:46,883 Bobbi, come on. 305 00:24:47,843 --> 00:24:49,643 -Okay. -Thanks. 306 00:28:45,683 --> 00:28:47,643 Thank you for staying for the whole gig. 307 00:28:50,483 --> 00:28:51,323 What's wrong? 308 00:28:56,203 --> 00:29:00,523 I understand that you want me to… to change Spotify. 309 00:29:02,283 --> 00:29:07,043 But the changes that you want me to do… would be our downfall. 310 00:29:07,123 --> 00:29:08,763 It doesn't have to be that way. 311 00:29:11,763 --> 00:29:13,283 You have your songs, Bobbi… 312 00:29:14,203 --> 00:29:18,483 Your music… That's what Spotify is to me. 313 00:29:20,003 --> 00:29:21,883 Everything I am is a part of that. 314 00:29:25,683 --> 00:29:28,443 And it doesn't matter what you say… 315 00:29:29,243 --> 00:29:32,403 I will never let anyone take that away from me. 316 00:30:15,483 --> 00:30:16,803 Scratch the Record. 317 00:30:28,043 --> 00:30:30,283 …is now spreading around the world. 318 00:30:30,363 --> 00:30:33,163 The Swedish artist named Bobbi Thomasson... 319 00:30:47,563 --> 00:30:53,763 Scratch the record. 320 00:31:08,123 --> 00:31:09,443 This is bullshit. 321 00:31:10,043 --> 00:31:12,763 You know they only brought us here to humiliate us. 322 00:31:12,843 --> 00:31:14,723 The US Senate are meant to humiliate us. 323 00:31:14,803 --> 00:31:16,923 I'm not supposed to be here. I'm not American. 324 00:31:17,003 --> 00:31:18,923 Daniel, you've got this. 325 00:31:20,443 --> 00:31:23,043 You know what it is? It's theater. 326 00:31:23,123 --> 00:31:25,203 You're the CEO, Daniel. 327 00:31:25,283 --> 00:31:26,923 You run the company. 328 00:31:27,003 --> 00:31:30,003 If we lose this argument in front of the committee, 329 00:31:30,083 --> 00:31:34,803 our whole business could be screwed, so please, just don't resist. 330 00:31:35,643 --> 00:31:41,083 Yeah? Focus. Stay cool and calmly answer everything they throw at you. 331 00:31:43,523 --> 00:31:44,643 We're here. 332 00:31:50,683 --> 00:31:52,443 What kind of power does this committee have? 333 00:31:52,523 --> 00:31:54,923 The kind that can recommend a fixed price of a stream, 334 00:31:55,003 --> 00:31:58,003 regulate everything and destroy our business model. 335 00:31:58,083 --> 00:32:02,203 You have to focus on a Senator Landy. This is her hearing. She pushed for it. 336 00:32:02,283 --> 00:32:04,403 She's staked everything on this. Don't let her win. 337 00:32:04,483 --> 00:32:05,323 Daniel? 338 00:32:11,203 --> 00:32:14,203 What the fuck is she doing here? 339 00:32:14,283 --> 00:32:16,123 Forget about her. She's irrelevant. 340 00:32:16,203 --> 00:32:18,843 She's here as a representative or some shit. Who cares? 341 00:32:20,363 --> 00:32:21,763 You have to shut Lanley down. 342 00:32:21,843 --> 00:32:23,043 What about the other guys? 343 00:32:23,123 --> 00:32:26,963 Keep them engaged. As long as they make eye contact with you, we're good. 344 00:32:27,043 --> 00:32:29,963 As soon as they start avoiding your gaze, we're fucked. And Daniel… 345 00:32:31,163 --> 00:32:32,203 you can do this. 346 00:32:32,923 --> 00:32:35,883 Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, 347 00:32:35,963 --> 00:32:37,283 -so help you God? -I do. 348 00:32:47,283 --> 00:32:49,643 Could you please identify yourself for the committee? 349 00:32:50,763 --> 00:32:54,363 My name is Daniel Ek and I'm the CEO and co-founder of Spotify. 350 00:32:54,443 --> 00:32:59,443 Mr. Ek, you previously described Spotify's mission as: 351 00:32:59,523 --> 00:33:03,083 "To unlock the potential of human creativity 352 00:33:03,163 --> 00:33:08,603 by giving a million artists the opportunity to live off their art." 353 00:33:08,683 --> 00:33:09,683 Yes. 354 00:33:10,283 --> 00:33:12,243 How is your progress towards that? 355 00:33:12,323 --> 00:33:16,923 Excellent. Our top tier club of artists who can support themselves from streams 356 00:33:17,003 --> 00:33:20,803 has doubled in the last three years and tripled since 2015. 357 00:33:21,443 --> 00:33:22,923 That's impressive… 358 00:33:23,003 --> 00:33:26,363 So, at your current rate of growth, 359 00:33:26,443 --> 00:33:31,123 you would hit that one million figure in… just under 75 years? 360 00:33:34,843 --> 00:33:38,323 Your business model just doesn't work for musicians, does it? 361 00:33:38,403 --> 00:33:39,843 That's not true. 362 00:33:39,923 --> 00:33:44,043 What are the average earnings of an artist not in your top tier? 363 00:33:44,723 --> 00:33:47,603 Well, the number of artists changes so fast for us, you know. 364 00:33:47,683 --> 00:33:52,083 Mr. Ek, from your own data, I can see here that the figure is… 365 00:33:52,163 --> 00:33:54,003 12 dollars a month. 366 00:33:55,803 --> 00:33:58,883 -Could you live off that? -Well, that number is not verified. 367 00:33:58,963 --> 00:34:00,883 It's taken from your own results. 368 00:34:01,683 --> 00:34:04,683 Excuse me, Madam Chairwoman. Mr. Ek… 369 00:34:05,643 --> 00:34:09,523 Isn't it the case that Spotify is just one platform among many? 370 00:34:09,603 --> 00:34:12,483 Yes, that is correct. Spotify is one platform among many, 371 00:34:12,563 --> 00:34:15,323 and artists have several platforms to earn an income from. 372 00:34:15,403 --> 00:34:17,923 It's not fair to put all that on Spotify. 373 00:34:19,202 --> 00:34:22,523 What percentage of the streaming market does Spotify control? 374 00:34:22,603 --> 00:34:24,483 I believe it's around 25%, Senator. 375 00:34:24,563 --> 00:34:28,523 You control almost 45% of the US market alone. 376 00:34:28,603 --> 00:34:32,202 In some countries, your share is as high as 60%. 377 00:34:32,803 --> 00:34:36,883 Five times as many users as your nearest rival. 378 00:34:37,682 --> 00:34:41,043 To all intents and purposes… you are a monopoly. 379 00:34:41,762 --> 00:34:42,682 We are not a monopoly. 380 00:34:42,762 --> 00:34:45,963 No artist can take themselves off your platform, 381 00:34:46,043 --> 00:34:49,803 no artist can risk losing exposure to your audience. 382 00:34:49,883 --> 00:34:55,123 You control streaming and you control the fate of musicians. 383 00:34:57,722 --> 00:35:01,563 I'm sorry, Senator. Was there a question in there, or…? 384 00:35:05,043 --> 00:35:10,443 Do you believe the size of your business model creates a problem for artists? 385 00:35:10,523 --> 00:35:14,323 Spotify is about partnering with the artist, 386 00:35:14,403 --> 00:35:18,163 and build the music industry with them and create a future together. 387 00:35:18,243 --> 00:35:21,723 When the Copyright Royalty Board awarded songwriters 388 00:35:21,803 --> 00:35:26,483 their first raise in almost 50 years, how did Spotify react? 389 00:35:28,963 --> 00:35:31,563 -We sought clarification. -You sought clarification? 390 00:35:32,363 --> 00:35:35,923 You took them to court. You lodged an appeal against them, 391 00:35:36,003 --> 00:35:40,203 and you got lawyers to argue for a cut in what they're paid. 392 00:35:40,283 --> 00:35:43,723 Does that sound like a company that supports artists? 393 00:35:43,803 --> 00:35:46,363 It sounds like a company that has its own approach, 394 00:35:46,443 --> 00:35:48,523 but we support songwriters. 395 00:35:48,603 --> 00:35:51,883 We partner with them, we champion them. 396 00:35:51,963 --> 00:35:56,763 You use your size and marketing budget to silence your critics, Mr. Ek. 397 00:35:57,323 --> 00:36:01,843 At every opportunity, you do everything you can to drive down 398 00:36:01,923 --> 00:36:04,443 the share you pay musicians. 399 00:36:05,163 --> 00:36:08,323 Don't you think you have a responsibility to these people? 400 00:36:08,403 --> 00:36:11,283 I believe that musicians need to understand 401 00:36:11,363 --> 00:36:13,163 that I'm the best friend they've got. 402 00:36:13,243 --> 00:36:15,203 I'm the only one who's not lying to them. 403 00:36:15,283 --> 00:36:18,443 I'm the only one who's honest about the fact that we can't go back, 404 00:36:18,523 --> 00:36:23,363 that this is a completely new industry with new rules and new principles. 405 00:36:23,443 --> 00:36:26,283 I'm the one working day and night to create the opportunities 406 00:36:26,363 --> 00:36:28,323 they need to achieve their dreams. 407 00:36:33,083 --> 00:36:35,123 What is Discovery Max? 408 00:36:40,283 --> 00:36:42,603 Discovery Max is a perfect example. 409 00:36:42,683 --> 00:36:44,883 It's a service that helps artists. 410 00:36:44,963 --> 00:36:46,923 Discovery Max is a service, 411 00:36:47,003 --> 00:36:50,883 in which you take a bigger share of the artist's royalty, 412 00:36:50,963 --> 00:36:54,163 and in return offer them extra promotion. 413 00:36:54,243 --> 00:36:58,563 Well, Discovery Max is an exchange between Spotify and the artist. 414 00:36:58,643 --> 00:37:02,923 It is straight up music industry payola, and it has to stop. 415 00:37:03,003 --> 00:37:04,883 You're splitting hairs, Mr. Ek. 416 00:37:04,963 --> 00:37:08,523 You reduce the artist's royalty and in return you fix the game. 417 00:37:08,603 --> 00:37:10,363 We're not fixing anything. 418 00:37:10,443 --> 00:37:15,243 The major record companies own almost 20% of Spotify, don't they? 419 00:37:15,323 --> 00:37:18,923 It's possible. That's… It's around that number, yes. 420 00:37:19,003 --> 00:37:22,523 So, the musicians are on the labels, 421 00:37:22,603 --> 00:37:28,243 the labels own part of Spotify, Spotify decides which musicians get promoted, 422 00:37:28,323 --> 00:37:33,683 and then the income from the streams goes straight back to those labels. 423 00:37:33,763 --> 00:37:36,163 What part of that does not sound like a cartel? 424 00:37:38,563 --> 00:37:40,043 We're not a cartel. 425 00:37:40,123 --> 00:37:41,403 You control the market. 426 00:37:42,003 --> 00:37:44,363 You're in bed with your suppliers. 427 00:37:44,443 --> 00:37:48,923 And then, at every turn, you use your reach and your technology 428 00:37:49,003 --> 00:37:51,443 to drive down the share that you pay musicians, 429 00:37:52,043 --> 00:37:56,003 the people that depend on you and your platform to make a living wage. 430 00:37:56,083 --> 00:37:59,363 Can you seriously sit there and tell me that in any other part of the world, 431 00:37:59,443 --> 00:38:01,403 this would be considered acceptable? 432 00:38:04,843 --> 00:38:08,723 There's a lot of negative comments. The word cartel seems to resonate. 433 00:38:08,803 --> 00:38:10,923 It's a few voices on social media, nothing to… 434 00:38:13,803 --> 00:38:17,083 Let's hope they put her under the kind of pressure they put you under. 435 00:38:22,483 --> 00:38:25,483 Would you please identify yourself for the committee? 436 00:38:26,403 --> 00:38:28,243 My name is Bobbi Thomasson. 437 00:38:28,323 --> 00:38:30,283 I'm a musician, but I'm here today 438 00:38:30,363 --> 00:38:34,803 as the US and global head of a musicians group called "Scratch the Record". 439 00:38:34,883 --> 00:38:37,163 That's a musicians' advocacy group? 440 00:38:37,243 --> 00:38:38,723 Yes, that's correct. 441 00:38:38,803 --> 00:38:40,123 And what are you advocating? 442 00:38:41,363 --> 00:38:44,603 When our music is used, when it's streamed, 443 00:38:44,683 --> 00:38:49,443 we argue that musicians deserve to be paid a fixed price per stream. 444 00:38:50,723 --> 00:38:53,563 And we want that to be recognized in law. 445 00:38:53,643 --> 00:38:57,523 We would all like to get paid more, but that doesn't mean we can change the law. 446 00:39:00,483 --> 00:39:03,283 Musicians have lobbied streamers for a decent cut, 447 00:39:03,363 --> 00:39:06,683 but all we ever get are words. We need a law. 448 00:39:07,923 --> 00:39:11,443 In every generation, there are winners and losers. 449 00:39:11,523 --> 00:39:13,923 And people say that's just how it is. 450 00:39:14,003 --> 00:39:17,003 But this Senate has always been able to tell the difference 451 00:39:17,083 --> 00:39:19,643 between change and exploitation. 452 00:39:20,923 --> 00:39:23,323 Miss Thomasson, with all respect, 453 00:39:23,403 --> 00:39:28,843 you're not a front line worker, you're a musician and you chose to do that. 454 00:39:28,923 --> 00:39:32,243 So you want musicians to accept that music is precious, 455 00:39:32,323 --> 00:39:33,963 but they're interchangeable? 456 00:39:34,043 --> 00:39:36,563 -That's not what I said. -It is what you said. 457 00:39:36,643 --> 00:39:38,843 It's what everybody always says. 458 00:39:38,923 --> 00:39:40,723 But if you want to enjoy something, 459 00:39:40,803 --> 00:39:44,163 you have no right to ignore the conditions it was made in. 460 00:39:44,243 --> 00:39:46,643 Spotify is… It's just a platform. 461 00:39:47,883 --> 00:39:52,043 Spotify churns out a product to millions of phones and laptops, 462 00:39:52,123 --> 00:39:53,603 like a factory, 463 00:39:53,683 --> 00:39:56,963 and the workers that supply that product are musicians. 464 00:39:57,043 --> 00:40:00,803 Spotify is always telling us how grateful we should be for that exposure, 465 00:40:00,883 --> 00:40:05,123 but I'm here to say that you can't pay the bills with likes. 466 00:40:05,203 --> 00:40:07,643 We don't care how many analytics you build, 467 00:40:07,723 --> 00:40:09,363 how many different ways you tell us 468 00:40:09,443 --> 00:40:12,203 we have more listeners in Boston than Stockholm. 469 00:40:13,083 --> 00:40:16,883 When our work is used, we want to get paid. 470 00:40:16,963 --> 00:40:19,163 Why is that this Senate's business? 471 00:40:19,243 --> 00:40:22,643 Why is that not for the market? Or for the consumer? 472 00:40:22,723 --> 00:40:24,923 Because, in 1938, 473 00:40:25,003 --> 00:40:29,163 this was the Senate that introduced a statuary minimum wage for the employees 474 00:40:29,243 --> 00:40:32,003 of the new steel and oil industries. 475 00:40:32,083 --> 00:40:34,083 Senators saw that the world had changed. 476 00:40:35,203 --> 00:40:37,043 A new law was needed. 477 00:40:38,163 --> 00:40:41,083 That minimum wage looks obvious now. 478 00:40:41,163 --> 00:40:42,563 But the bosses fought it. 479 00:40:43,483 --> 00:40:48,523 Law makers had to see that the oil companies simply had too much power. 480 00:40:48,603 --> 00:40:54,483 That is exactly where we are today. This is about the big monopolies of today. 481 00:40:55,323 --> 00:40:58,643 It's about whether we have the courage to see that musicians 482 00:40:58,723 --> 00:41:02,203 are no different to oil and steel workers. 483 00:41:02,963 --> 00:41:05,203 We deserve the same rights… 484 00:41:06,003 --> 00:41:10,523 the same recognition… and until we acknowledge that… 485 00:41:10,603 --> 00:41:14,203 streaming will always be exploitation. 486 00:41:17,563 --> 00:41:21,363 Bullshit. Exploitation? The law? Who the fuck does she think she is? 487 00:41:21,443 --> 00:41:24,283 She's someone who knows she's got the support of several senators. 488 00:41:24,363 --> 00:41:26,883 So what if she does? So do we. We have… 489 00:41:26,963 --> 00:41:30,923 Lobbyists. We have influence. Do not go and talk to her, Daniel. 490 00:41:31,003 --> 00:41:35,643 I can't just ignore her anymore. Just… stay calm. 491 00:41:51,523 --> 00:41:52,403 Hi. 492 00:41:54,123 --> 00:41:55,043 Hi. 493 00:42:00,043 --> 00:42:04,283 Well, that was… You were impressive. 494 00:42:04,963 --> 00:42:08,003 -I know you don't mean that. -Yes, unfortunately I do. 495 00:42:08,723 --> 00:42:10,283 I'm just the messenger. 496 00:42:11,203 --> 00:42:14,003 But the message, Bobbi, you can't be serious. 497 00:42:14,083 --> 00:42:15,683 Exploitation? 498 00:42:15,763 --> 00:42:17,923 You compare Spotify to an oil company. 499 00:42:18,003 --> 00:42:20,283 I remember what you said at the start… 500 00:42:21,203 --> 00:42:24,723 I remember your promise that everybody would benefit from Spotify. 501 00:42:27,923 --> 00:42:29,043 Think about that. 502 00:42:35,643 --> 00:42:37,723 -Daniel. -Yeah? 503 00:42:37,803 --> 00:42:39,843 -It's done. -What's done? 504 00:42:39,923 --> 00:42:45,963 I just spoke to the bank and they agreed. Another billion. You got the loan. 505 00:42:47,563 --> 00:42:48,763 Okay… 506 00:42:52,883 --> 00:42:54,563 What do we do about all this? 507 00:42:54,643 --> 00:42:59,843 Do you think the bank cares about what a bunch of activists or senators think? 508 00:43:00,523 --> 00:43:04,763 In all this chaos they heard only one thing: 45%. 509 00:43:05,443 --> 00:43:07,923 You control the market. That's all they care about. 510 00:43:11,083 --> 00:43:12,003 What do you think? 511 00:43:14,283 --> 00:43:15,123 Maybe you're right. 512 00:43:15,723 --> 00:43:19,843 I might have been in politics too long. 513 00:43:21,123 --> 00:43:24,443 But listen… This is the last loan we can take out. 514 00:43:24,523 --> 00:43:26,483 You have to figure out the business model. 515 00:43:26,563 --> 00:43:29,083 If you can't do that, don't take the money. 516 00:43:31,643 --> 00:43:32,563 Thanks. 517 00:43:34,523 --> 00:43:35,563 Are you all right? 518 00:43:37,443 --> 00:43:38,843 Did you see where Bobbi went? 519 00:44:03,283 --> 00:44:05,603 You know what I regret the most with Spotify? 520 00:44:07,003 --> 00:44:09,803 That I didn't leave the negotiations. 521 00:44:10,803 --> 00:44:16,043 When we sat there in the first talks about the rights… 522 00:44:17,003 --> 00:44:20,203 I should have said, "This is the future. 523 00:44:21,403 --> 00:44:24,443 If you want to be a part of it, it has to be on our terms." 524 00:44:25,563 --> 00:44:27,763 That would have been so damn beautiful. 525 00:44:28,563 --> 00:44:32,083 So what you're saying is that everything will get better… 526 00:44:32,163 --> 00:44:34,603 if you listen even less to other people? 527 00:44:38,843 --> 00:44:39,883 Yes. 528 00:45:03,283 --> 00:45:07,203 Okay, guys! That was the last shot for me and you too, guys!