1
00:01:41,803 --> 00:01:43,963
Checking your pulse?
2
00:01:44,043 --> 00:01:45,883
-Sorry?
-Checking your pulse?
3
00:01:45,963 --> 00:01:49,963
No. Thanks for coming on a Sunday.
4
00:01:50,603 --> 00:01:52,123
No worries.
5
00:01:52,203 --> 00:01:53,043
Is Jim here?
6
00:01:53,123 --> 00:01:55,683
-Yes, he's waiting in the pavilion.
-Okay, good.
7
00:01:55,763 --> 00:01:57,803
-Jim!
-Daniel.
8
00:01:57,883 --> 00:02:00,363
-Good to see you. How are you?
-I'm great, and you?
9
00:02:00,443 --> 00:02:02,163
-Good. Thanks for coming.
-No problem.
10
00:02:02,243 --> 00:02:05,123
Always a pleasure to come over here
and get down to the nitty-gritty.
11
00:02:05,203 --> 00:02:06,803
-Yeah.
-How's Arsenal doing?
12
00:02:06,883 --> 00:02:08,123
Terrible, they lost again.
13
00:02:08,203 --> 00:02:11,923
-They'd be better off with you in charge.
-Your words, not mine.
14
00:02:12,003 --> 00:02:13,403
So…
15
00:02:13,483 --> 00:02:17,043
As you know, we have an urgent need
to maximize revenue,
16
00:02:17,123 --> 00:02:19,723
or at least bring down our cost base.
17
00:02:19,803 --> 00:02:23,283
If this business is gonna thrive,
we have to reduce the cost of the music.
18
00:02:23,363 --> 00:02:26,203
That's why we spent the last few years
testing Discovery Max,
19
00:02:26,283 --> 00:02:28,643
and now, finally,
we have some useful data.
20
00:02:29,403 --> 00:02:30,403
Yeah, and…?
21
00:02:31,883 --> 00:02:34,523
-Fucking fantastic.
-Yeah?
22
00:02:34,603 --> 00:02:38,683
The artists have seen their followers go
through the roof. They fucking love this.
23
00:02:38,763 --> 00:02:40,523
-Alright.
-When they get the promotion boost,
24
00:02:41,123 --> 00:02:45,163
they are seeing listener growth
of 40, 50, even 100%.
25
00:02:45,243 --> 00:02:48,203
Concert sales and merch sales
are going up…
26
00:02:48,283 --> 00:02:50,803
Everybody who signed up to it
said they'd do it again.
27
00:02:50,883 --> 00:02:53,403
Why don't we roll it out
across the whole company?
28
00:02:53,483 --> 00:02:55,283
Because it's highly contentious.
29
00:02:55,363 --> 00:02:59,323
We only promote bands that agree
to hand back a cut of their royalty.
30
00:02:59,403 --> 00:03:02,603
The artists consent to everything.
We're not charging anyone a penny.
31
00:03:02,683 --> 00:03:07,243
It's a win-win situation, a new business
model for a new kind of music industry.
32
00:03:07,323 --> 00:03:09,803
The Musicians' Union calls it payola.
33
00:03:09,883 --> 00:03:12,363
And Senator Madison Landy of the US Senate
34
00:03:13,043 --> 00:03:16,843
wrote Spotify a letter expressing
significant concern
35
00:03:16,923 --> 00:03:20,843
that we are participating
in anti-competitive activities.
36
00:03:20,923 --> 00:03:22,563
Well, that's not fucking good.
37
00:03:23,403 --> 00:03:27,003
Bottom line is that 70% of everything
we bring in on the music,
38
00:03:27,083 --> 00:03:30,403
goes straight back
to the record companies. 70%!
39
00:03:30,483 --> 00:03:33,083
What other business
has to deal with those kind of costs?
40
00:03:33,163 --> 00:03:36,443
Discovery Max is
Spotify doing things its own way.
41
00:03:36,523 --> 00:03:39,123
It's us showing innovation,
reshaping music.
42
00:03:39,203 --> 00:03:41,403
It's us putting power
into musicians' hands.
43
00:03:41,483 --> 00:03:43,123
By halving their royalties.
44
00:03:43,203 --> 00:03:45,763
If we don't push the boundaries,
we are not gonna survive.
45
00:03:45,843 --> 00:03:49,203
Listen, what you and your team have done
is amazing, and I love it,
46
00:03:49,283 --> 00:03:51,683
but we do need to take it
step by step. I mean…
47
00:03:51,763 --> 00:03:57,683
For now, let's just… let's roll it out
in a way that keeps everyone onside, okay?
48
00:04:03,483 --> 00:04:04,803
-Hi.
-Hi.
49
00:04:04,883 --> 00:04:06,963
-How was the meeting?
-It was good.
50
00:04:07,043 --> 00:04:08,723
Is this the new architect?
51
00:04:09,883 --> 00:04:12,163
-That's exactly what it is.
-Yeah, okay.
52
00:04:12,883 --> 00:04:16,683
-Are we tearing it all down?
-Yes. Yes, I think so.
53
00:04:17,283 --> 00:04:18,363
Am I picking the kids up today?
54
00:04:18,443 --> 00:04:21,763
-No. No, your mom will do that.
-Oh, okay.
55
00:04:22,683 --> 00:04:27,523
Hey… You are not worried?
About the protests?
56
00:04:27,603 --> 00:04:29,403
-No.
-No?
57
00:04:30,283 --> 00:04:31,563
But I can see that you are.
58
00:04:33,723 --> 00:04:36,083
I'm just worried
that they will try to blame you.
59
00:04:36,163 --> 00:04:37,483
No, they won't.
60
00:04:37,563 --> 00:04:41,283
Look at this. This singer has been
on Spotify since the start.
61
00:04:41,363 --> 00:04:44,163
You know why she stays?
Because she knows we're the best.
62
00:04:44,763 --> 00:04:48,003
It's as simple as that. I promise.
63
00:04:48,843 --> 00:04:50,483
Spotify, what we want…
64
00:04:50,563 --> 00:04:53,203
A small but persistent group
65
00:04:53,283 --> 00:04:58,283
has been protesting for three weeks
outside Spotify's headquarters.
66
00:04:58,363 --> 00:05:02,363
We are all activists now.
They have forced us into it.
67
00:05:02,443 --> 00:05:07,443
The protest leader, Nadja Johansson,
a former musician,
68
00:05:07,523 --> 00:05:10,243
who feels forced to act
because of the situation…
69
00:05:10,323 --> 00:05:13,843
Let's see… You know what?
Let's do this later.
70
00:05:13,923 --> 00:05:17,123
You have to go to school.
I don't want you to be late today.
71
00:05:17,203 --> 00:05:18,763
Can I have an iPhone?
72
00:05:23,283 --> 00:05:25,563
I can't afford an iPhone, honey.
73
00:05:25,643 --> 00:05:28,003
But all of my friends have one.
74
00:05:28,083 --> 00:05:29,803
Spotify, what we want…
75
00:05:29,883 --> 00:05:32,603
I know… but…
76
00:05:33,443 --> 00:05:36,083
Hey, there's food in the fridge.
77
00:05:36,163 --> 00:05:37,683
I'm working late tonight.
78
00:05:38,483 --> 00:05:41,323
And after work, I have a gig.
79
00:05:42,123 --> 00:05:46,243
And the more gigs I get,
the closer we are to an iPhone.
80
00:05:46,323 --> 00:05:47,203
-Right?
-Yes.
81
00:05:48,523 --> 00:05:51,243
Go on. Here, don't forget your bag.
82
00:05:55,443 --> 00:05:58,203
I'm standing here
with Spotify's CEO Daniel Ek.
83
00:05:58,283 --> 00:06:02,203
What do you say to the shareholders
who worry about the negative reactions?
84
00:06:03,043 --> 00:06:04,923
No, I'm not worried about that.
85
00:06:05,003 --> 00:06:07,203
There will always be people
who are opposed to success…
86
00:06:19,443 --> 00:06:20,643
The doors are closing.
87
00:06:30,843 --> 00:06:32,163
First floor.
88
00:07:16,083 --> 00:07:18,563
-Great gig.
-Thanks.
89
00:07:18,643 --> 00:07:22,283
-I've transferred the money.
-Yes, great. See you.
90
00:07:22,363 --> 00:07:23,443
See you. Take care.
91
00:07:36,043 --> 00:07:38,763
You've only given me half.
What's going on?
92
00:07:40,803 --> 00:07:43,923
I didn't sell as much beer today
as last time or the time before that.
93
00:07:46,123 --> 00:07:50,083
Hang on. I played a gig
that you hired me for.
94
00:07:50,163 --> 00:07:54,403
Yeah, but do you want me to go bust
just to let you play?
95
00:07:55,403 --> 00:07:59,643
I mean, you get free PR by playing here.
People go home and stream your music.
96
00:07:59,723 --> 00:08:01,203
That's great for you.
97
00:09:21,523 --> 00:09:25,283
Okay, I… I don't know
how this will turn out,
98
00:09:25,963 --> 00:09:29,643
but I have reached a point
where there's nothing more I can do.
99
00:09:30,283 --> 00:09:31,923
I'm a musician.
100
00:09:32,683 --> 00:09:37,123
I have released and written six albums
in the last ten years.
101
00:09:37,203 --> 00:09:42,723
I've had many hits. My songs are played
close to 200,000 times a month on Spotify.
102
00:09:43,323 --> 00:09:46,963
But I still can't pay my rent.
103
00:09:47,923 --> 00:09:51,443
I take all the gigs I can get,
I have a job on the side,
104
00:09:51,523 --> 00:09:55,043
everything for the privilege
to make music.
105
00:09:55,123 --> 00:09:59,283
Even though I tell myself every day
that soon things might improve,
106
00:09:59,363 --> 00:10:04,043
if I write the right song, or end up
on the right playlist, things will change.
107
00:10:04,123 --> 00:10:08,043
But the truth is
that the system is broken.
108
00:10:09,243 --> 00:10:13,923
The music industry made
23 million dollars last year.
109
00:10:14,003 --> 00:10:15,843
The record companies thrive.
110
00:10:15,923 --> 00:10:19,243
They even made more money
than they did before piracy.
111
00:10:20,003 --> 00:10:23,683
The ten people
who make the most money in Sweden
112
00:10:23,763 --> 00:10:26,403
come from the same streaming company
every year.
113
00:10:27,123 --> 00:10:31,283
Despite that, the artists who create
the music for their platform
114
00:10:31,363 --> 00:10:33,323
can barely survive.
115
00:10:34,563 --> 00:10:35,723
Daniel…
116
00:10:35,803 --> 00:10:38,363
Today you liked one of my songs.
117
00:10:38,443 --> 00:10:42,803
You added it to your playlist,
which is awesome.
118
00:10:43,803 --> 00:10:48,323
But if you really liked it,
sit down and talk to us.
119
00:10:49,523 --> 00:10:53,723
Help us have a new discussion
about the streaming business.
120
00:10:54,363 --> 00:11:00,963
Help us create a new system, a music
industry where we can actually survive.
121
00:11:22,443 --> 00:11:23,963
Nadja? What's going on?
122
00:11:24,043 --> 00:11:29,203
I love you! You are awesome!
Oh, you are so great! Thank you!
123
00:11:29,283 --> 00:11:32,563
-Have you completely lost it?
-No, your post!
124
00:11:32,643 --> 00:11:36,323
You've done more with one video
that we've done with 15 protests.
125
00:11:36,403 --> 00:11:38,443
And it's perfect that it was you!
126
00:11:38,523 --> 00:11:42,163
This is really good to hear, but I have
to get Naomi ready for school.
127
00:11:42,243 --> 00:11:43,963
Then I've got to go work, so I…
128
00:11:44,043 --> 00:11:47,323
Are you kidding? This is so fucking big!
129
00:11:48,003 --> 00:11:50,003
What the hell are you talking about?
130
00:11:51,803 --> 00:11:53,243
-Everything okay?
-Absolutely.
131
00:11:54,043 --> 00:11:58,283
I know this is something you dismissed
a long time ago and…
132
00:11:59,123 --> 00:12:03,763
Well, you may not like me bringing it up,
but considering the situation and…
133
00:12:03,843 --> 00:12:06,643
I'm sorry to interrupt,
but have you seen the news?
134
00:12:06,723 --> 00:12:08,523
-No.
-Do it.
135
00:12:12,363 --> 00:12:16,123
Bobbi Thomasson, musician
and childhood friend of Daniel Ek
136
00:12:16,203 --> 00:12:20,763
posted an emotional and personal video
on her Instagram story yesterday.
137
00:12:20,843 --> 00:12:24,203
Daniel, today you liked one of my songs.
138
00:12:24,283 --> 00:12:29,003
You added it to your playlist,
which is awesome.
139
00:12:29,083 --> 00:12:33,923
But if you really liked it,
sit down and talk to us.
140
00:12:34,003 --> 00:12:38,883
Since last night, the video has been
shared more than 12,000 times,
141
00:12:38,963 --> 00:12:42,483
and has the support from other musicians.
142
00:12:42,563 --> 00:12:48,003
Everybody, this is Bobbi Thomasson, the
woman who knows how to get to Daniel Ek.
143
00:12:52,123 --> 00:12:54,163
-Hi.
-Way to go, girl!
144
00:12:55,363 --> 00:12:56,763
We've been busy for months,
145
00:12:56,843 --> 00:13:00,763
but nobody's cared until now,
after your post.
146
00:13:00,843 --> 00:13:01,683
-Bobbi.
-Rhonda.
147
00:13:01,763 --> 00:13:02,603
Hi.
148
00:13:02,683 --> 00:13:04,363
We put your video on our feed.
149
00:13:04,443 --> 00:13:06,923
It's had over 20,000 likes
in under two hours.
150
00:13:07,883 --> 00:13:10,763
The hashtag Scratch the Record,
is trending since yesterday.
151
00:13:10,843 --> 00:13:14,003
We managed to connect. Now we are all in.
152
00:13:14,083 --> 00:13:17,043
No, no, no, I don't think
I'm the right person for this.
153
00:13:17,123 --> 00:13:21,163
I just posted a video
because I was tired and cranky.
154
00:13:21,243 --> 00:13:23,403
Yes, sure you are.
155
00:13:23,483 --> 00:13:27,483
We are all activists now.
They've fucking forced us into it.
156
00:13:27,563 --> 00:13:29,963
Well, this may sound a bit strange,
157
00:13:30,043 --> 00:13:32,963
but I know Daniel Ek personally, okay?
158
00:13:33,043 --> 00:13:38,523
We grew up together, and I mean,
I support you 100%, of course,
159
00:13:38,603 --> 00:13:41,683
but I posted the video
because I wanted to start a dialogue.
160
00:13:41,763 --> 00:13:44,603
And regardless, I have to wait and see
what he says.
161
00:13:46,443 --> 00:13:49,923
So… you haven't checked
your Instagram yet?
162
00:13:51,603 --> 00:13:54,003
He stopped following you this morning.
163
00:13:54,083 --> 00:13:57,363
Daniel isn't interested
in having a dialogue.
164
00:13:57,443 --> 00:13:59,283
None of them are.
165
00:13:59,363 --> 00:14:02,363
They want us to shut up
and they want us to go away.
166
00:14:07,603 --> 00:14:11,923
Just so you know, there's
another protest outside the headquarters.
167
00:14:13,643 --> 00:14:14,483
Okay.
168
00:14:17,163 --> 00:14:19,843
Daniel, would you mind looking at this?
169
00:14:19,923 --> 00:14:22,083
Yeah. What's this?
170
00:14:22,683 --> 00:14:24,883
It's a proposed sale of Spotify.
171
00:14:25,643 --> 00:14:28,523
I know that this isn't something
you've considered before,
172
00:14:28,603 --> 00:14:33,203
but every CEO, every founder,
has to choose their moment.
173
00:14:33,283 --> 00:14:36,963
-You've had an amazing journey.
-No, I won't sell Spotify.
174
00:14:37,043 --> 00:14:40,883
You hired me to have somebody
who always tells you how things are.
175
00:14:40,963 --> 00:14:43,923
As things are,
the market is still in our favor.
176
00:14:44,003 --> 00:14:47,963
But what will you do
when the market value drops below the IPO?
177
00:14:48,043 --> 00:14:53,803
I hired you because you are pragmatic
and stubborn, but this is too much.
178
00:14:54,683 --> 00:14:57,603
Okay, so how do we get out of this one?
179
00:14:58,363 --> 00:14:59,643
We'll have to borrow more.
180
00:14:59,723 --> 00:15:03,203
Daniel, last year we borrowed
one billion dollars.
181
00:15:03,283 --> 00:15:05,763
We'll borrow more to get through this.
182
00:15:05,843 --> 00:15:10,563
We'll do some acquisitions, we'll invest
in innovative tech, like we always have.
183
00:15:10,643 --> 00:15:12,923
This is your way out.
184
00:15:13,003 --> 00:15:15,443
If you sell Spotify,
you protect your legacy.
185
00:15:15,523 --> 00:15:18,803
You protect your brand, you protect
what you have tried to build…
186
00:15:18,883 --> 00:15:21,083
I won't sell Spotify, I…
187
00:15:24,843 --> 00:15:26,483
I haven't done what I wanted yet.
188
00:15:26,563 --> 00:15:28,723
-Daniel…
-What?
189
00:15:33,003 --> 00:15:36,723
Scratch the Record! Scratch the Record!
190
00:15:38,483 --> 00:15:41,923
Okay, keep your heads down.
Security is here.
191
00:15:59,363 --> 00:16:05,083
Scratch the Record! Scratch the Record!
192
00:16:05,163 --> 00:16:07,483
-Daniel, this is outrageous!
-Yeah, I know.
193
00:16:07,563 --> 00:16:09,763
-Just, just relax, okay?
-Relax?
194
00:16:09,843 --> 00:16:12,523
The business model we have is fine.
195
00:16:12,603 --> 00:16:16,603
We have new content, we'll give them more
support and soon we'll have Discovery Max.
196
00:16:16,683 --> 00:16:18,403
There's no reason to panic.
197
00:16:21,323 --> 00:16:23,843
I'm not here as Daniel Ek's enemy.
198
00:16:23,923 --> 00:16:26,363
I'm here as someone who used to know him,
199
00:16:26,443 --> 00:16:30,403
and who believed in the promises
he gave me and other musicians.
200
00:16:30,483 --> 00:16:31,603
Scratch the record!
201
00:16:31,683 --> 00:16:35,483
I'm here today
to say that enough is enough.
202
00:16:35,563 --> 00:16:38,243
I have told my friends to be patient.
203
00:16:38,323 --> 00:16:40,843
I've really tried to believe in him.
204
00:16:40,923 --> 00:16:45,483
But the average salary for an
employee at Spotify is 130,000 dollars,
205
00:16:45,563 --> 00:16:49,163
while the musicians
on his platform are on their knees.
206
00:16:50,363 --> 00:16:55,563
Daniel Ek, it's time for you
to "Scratch the Record".
207
00:16:55,643 --> 00:17:01,283
It's time for you to sit down
and talk to us for real this time.
208
00:17:01,963 --> 00:17:03,603
-Unbelievable.
-Yeah.
209
00:17:03,683 --> 00:17:06,163
This is distracting the office.
It's a public disturbance.
210
00:17:06,243 --> 00:17:08,843
-We should call the police.
-We can't call the police.
211
00:17:08,923 --> 00:17:13,083
This is a platform for musicians. What
will it look like if they're arrested?
212
00:17:13,162 --> 00:17:14,642
Exactly.
213
00:17:14,723 --> 00:17:17,963
Okay, it looks like the police
decided to turn up anyway.
214
00:17:25,243 --> 00:17:26,642
Shit.
215
00:17:27,763 --> 00:17:30,283
Scratch the Record!
216
00:17:31,323 --> 00:17:33,283
Let her go!
217
00:17:59,563 --> 00:18:01,083
This is bad, Daniel.
218
00:18:05,123 --> 00:18:07,283
It's only a story because we're in Sweden.
219
00:18:08,043 --> 00:18:10,163
We must not forget
we are listed in New York.
220
00:18:10,243 --> 00:18:12,643
We have more Chinese shareholders
than Swedish ones.
221
00:18:12,723 --> 00:18:16,403
But this may affect your chances
of borrowing money. You know what?
222
00:18:16,483 --> 00:18:18,923
I'm working myself to death
and I run from bank to bank.
223
00:18:19,003 --> 00:18:21,403
Do you know
what the first thing they ask about is?
224
00:18:22,003 --> 00:18:23,563
These protests.
225
00:18:24,683 --> 00:18:28,203
Daniel… you have made it clear
that you don't want to sell Spotify.
226
00:18:28,283 --> 00:18:31,803
You want me to find more money
that will enable new innovations.
227
00:18:32,443 --> 00:18:36,203
If that's the case, you will have
to make sure this doesn't get any bigger.
228
00:18:38,243 --> 00:18:40,843
One thing I've learned in politics…
229
00:18:41,443 --> 00:18:43,723
"Never let yourself become the story."
230
00:18:59,803 --> 00:19:02,403
-Do you want to play with us, Daddy?
-I'll play later.
231
00:19:06,363 --> 00:19:07,323
Hi.
232
00:19:08,723 --> 00:19:09,803
How are you?
233
00:19:12,323 --> 00:19:13,523
You're seen everywhere, Daniel.
234
00:19:15,123 --> 00:19:17,483
These protests, they won't die down.
235
00:19:17,563 --> 00:19:22,603
And all those damn opinionated people
who say Spotify needs to change,
236
00:19:22,683 --> 00:19:26,483
-what do they mean?
-Are these the new designs?
237
00:19:27,723 --> 00:19:29,443
-Yes.
-Mm.
238
00:19:29,523 --> 00:19:30,763
Yes, these are the designs.
239
00:19:31,563 --> 00:19:36,403
Ernst was a bit worried
that you might think it's a bit too big.
240
00:19:36,483 --> 00:19:40,243
Don't compromise.
I think we should make it even bigger.
241
00:19:47,923 --> 00:19:49,803
Did you get hold of Sundin?
242
00:19:52,203 --> 00:19:55,203
Okay, tell that traitor
that I'm coming now.
243
00:19:56,403 --> 00:19:58,083
-Hi.
-Hi!
244
00:19:58,163 --> 00:19:59,723
How are you doing? Nice to see you.
245
00:19:59,803 --> 00:20:03,203
-And you.
-Yeah. How are you doing?
246
00:20:03,283 --> 00:20:07,003
-Yeah, well… I'm alive.
-Yeah, great.
247
00:20:07,083 --> 00:20:11,523
Discovery Max looked…
I saw some test results. They were…
248
00:20:11,603 --> 00:20:14,483
Hey, this is the deal.
I need you to do something.
249
00:20:14,563 --> 00:20:15,923
Okay…
250
00:20:16,003 --> 00:20:18,643
I need you to call Bobbi Thomasson.
251
00:20:19,843 --> 00:20:22,923
I want you to explain to her
that this thing she's doing,
252
00:20:23,003 --> 00:20:24,483
it can only ruin things.
253
00:20:24,563 --> 00:20:28,163
It's based on a complete misunderstanding
of how Spotify works.
254
00:20:28,243 --> 00:20:33,163
I haven't seen Bobbi
for about ten years, I think.
255
00:20:33,243 --> 00:20:36,203
I can try to get hold of
her contact details, and then you can…
256
00:20:36,283 --> 00:20:39,043
Hold on… Try?
257
00:20:39,123 --> 00:20:41,683
-Yes, I can try to get hold of…
-She was your artist.
258
00:20:41,763 --> 00:20:44,243
You were the one who signed her.
You promoted her.
259
00:20:45,483 --> 00:20:47,923
-You can contact her.
-No, I can't.
260
00:20:55,363 --> 00:20:56,483
I get it.
261
00:20:58,283 --> 00:21:00,683
You use them, sign them,
earn money from them,
262
00:21:00,763 --> 00:21:03,043
and when you're done, you forget them.
263
00:21:03,123 --> 00:21:05,523
When Bobbi is upset about her earnings,
264
00:21:06,323 --> 00:21:08,923
does she turn to Universal or BMG?
265
00:21:09,003 --> 00:21:13,283
Does she turn to any of the people
who are responsible for what she earns?
266
00:21:13,363 --> 00:21:19,923
No, she and her fucking friends
set up camp outside my office,
267
00:21:20,003 --> 00:21:22,123
throwing all their shit at me.
268
00:21:22,203 --> 00:21:24,603
Did I sign her? Did I encourage her?
269
00:21:24,683 --> 00:21:29,763
Did I encourage any of these millions
of people who live in that fantasy
270
00:21:29,843 --> 00:21:33,563
that you have sold them, that they
will be the next Drake, Taylor Swift,
271
00:21:33,643 --> 00:21:38,083
getting them to sign shameful contracts
they are too young to understand?
272
00:21:40,403 --> 00:21:42,243
But who do they hold responsible? Me!
273
00:21:44,243 --> 00:21:46,923
But you don't care!
Of course not! Why would you?
274
00:21:47,003 --> 00:21:50,523
You and the record companies got what
you wanted, 70% of everything we earn.
275
00:21:51,323 --> 00:21:52,843
You've got a great deal there.
276
00:21:53,523 --> 00:21:56,963
And you got a stupid bastard
who agreed to it all.
277
00:22:04,123 --> 00:22:06,043
I'll be a while, but you can wait here.
278
00:23:01,123 --> 00:23:02,403
At a bistro in Rågsved?
279
00:23:05,403 --> 00:23:08,003
-Why are you here, Daniel?
-I think we should talk.
280
00:23:08,083 --> 00:23:10,283
Now? When I have a gig?
281
00:23:13,123 --> 00:23:18,003
I don't care that other people protest.
But you, Bobbi, you know me.
282
00:23:19,043 --> 00:23:22,403
That's why I joined them. If you
don't know someone, you won't listen.
283
00:23:22,483 --> 00:23:24,563
But what is it you want me to listen to?
284
00:23:24,643 --> 00:23:26,883
People who refuse to accept
the world has changed?
285
00:23:26,963 --> 00:23:31,163
Nothing has changed!
It's a fucking nightmare.
286
00:23:32,323 --> 00:23:36,603
Maybe you haven't understood
how to make the most of Spotify.
287
00:23:36,683 --> 00:23:40,163
-Please, don't do this.
-Listen to me. I'll just say one thing.
288
00:23:40,243 --> 00:23:45,723
If you let me… I will show you
how to make the most of Spotify.
289
00:23:45,803 --> 00:23:51,283
And then? Will you tell all the other
1.5 million artists your secrets, too?
290
00:23:51,363 --> 00:23:56,043
You remember how it was? You told me
that Pirate Bay uploads all of your songs.
291
00:23:56,123 --> 00:24:00,843
So we should be grateful that they aren't
stealing from us like 15 years ago?
292
00:24:00,923 --> 00:24:03,083
No, that's not what I mean.
293
00:24:03,163 --> 00:24:05,163
You're talking about your journey…
294
00:24:06,283 --> 00:24:08,003
But what about our journey?
295
00:24:08,083 --> 00:24:13,123
All the millions of musicians
who have no control of the payments.
296
00:24:13,203 --> 00:24:15,603
It can't be my responsibility
to help the careers of all the artists.
297
00:24:15,683 --> 00:24:20,483
Why not? You are the most powerful person
in the music industry right now.
298
00:24:21,243 --> 00:24:24,243
You are the system
and that's what you wanted.
299
00:24:25,243 --> 00:24:29,283
You wanted to create
the biggest music platform.
300
00:24:30,083 --> 00:24:32,803
-Bobbi, it's time.
-Okay.
301
00:24:34,403 --> 00:24:37,603
-Nice place…
-It's crap.
302
00:24:37,683 --> 00:24:40,843
This place… The whole point is
that nobody listens.
303
00:24:43,203 --> 00:24:44,483
Bobbi, let me help you.
304
00:24:45,803 --> 00:24:46,883
Bobbi, come on.
305
00:24:47,843 --> 00:24:49,643
-Okay.
-Thanks.
306
00:28:45,683 --> 00:28:47,643
Thank you for staying for the whole gig.
307
00:28:50,483 --> 00:28:51,323
What's wrong?
308
00:28:56,203 --> 00:29:00,523
I understand that you want me to…
to change Spotify.
309
00:29:02,283 --> 00:29:07,043
But the changes that you want me to do…
would be our downfall.
310
00:29:07,123 --> 00:29:08,763
It doesn't have to be that way.
311
00:29:11,763 --> 00:29:13,283
You have your songs, Bobbi…
312
00:29:14,203 --> 00:29:18,483
Your music… That's what Spotify is to me.
313
00:29:20,003 --> 00:29:21,883
Everything I am is a part of that.
314
00:29:25,683 --> 00:29:28,443
And it doesn't matter what you say…
315
00:29:29,243 --> 00:29:32,403
I will never let anyone take that
away from me.
316
00:30:15,483 --> 00:30:16,803
Scratch the Record.
317
00:30:28,043 --> 00:30:30,283
…is now spreading around the world.
318
00:30:30,363 --> 00:30:33,163
The Swedish artist
named Bobbi Thomasson...
319
00:30:47,563 --> 00:30:53,763
Scratch the record.
320
00:31:08,123 --> 00:31:09,443
This is bullshit.
321
00:31:10,043 --> 00:31:12,763
You know they only brought us here
to humiliate us.
322
00:31:12,843 --> 00:31:14,723
The US Senate are meant to humiliate us.
323
00:31:14,803 --> 00:31:16,923
I'm not supposed to be here.
I'm not American.
324
00:31:17,003 --> 00:31:18,923
Daniel, you've got this.
325
00:31:20,443 --> 00:31:23,043
You know what it is? It's
theater.
326
00:31:23,123 --> 00:31:25,203
You're the CEO, Daniel.
327
00:31:25,283 --> 00:31:26,923
You run the company.
328
00:31:27,003 --> 00:31:30,003
If we lose this argument
in front of the committee,
329
00:31:30,083 --> 00:31:34,803
our whole business could be screwed,
so please, just don't resist.
330
00:31:35,643 --> 00:31:41,083
Yeah? Focus. Stay cool and calmly
answer everything they throw at you.
331
00:31:43,523 --> 00:31:44,643
We're here.
332
00:31:50,683 --> 00:31:52,443
What kind of power
does this committee have?
333
00:31:52,523 --> 00:31:54,923
The kind that can recommend
a fixed price of a stream,
334
00:31:55,003 --> 00:31:58,003
regulate everything
and destroy our business model.
335
00:31:58,083 --> 00:32:02,203
You have to focus on a Senator Landy.
This is her hearing. She pushed for it.
336
00:32:02,283 --> 00:32:04,403
She's staked everything on this.
Don't let her win.
337
00:32:04,483 --> 00:32:05,323
Daniel?
338
00:32:11,203 --> 00:32:14,203
What the fuck is she doing here?
339
00:32:14,283 --> 00:32:16,123
Forget about her. She's
irrelevant.
340
00:32:16,203 --> 00:32:18,843
She's here as a representative
or some shit. Who cares?
341
00:32:20,363 --> 00:32:21,763
You have to shut Lanley down.
342
00:32:21,843 --> 00:32:23,043
What about the other guys?
343
00:32:23,123 --> 00:32:26,963
Keep them engaged. As long as they make
eye contact with you, we're good.
344
00:32:27,043 --> 00:32:29,963
As soon as they start avoiding
your gaze, we're fucked. And Daniel…
345
00:32:31,163 --> 00:32:32,203
you can do this.
346
00:32:32,923 --> 00:32:35,883
Do you swear to tell the truth,
the whole truth and nothing but the truth,
347
00:32:35,963 --> 00:32:37,283
-so help you God?
-I do.
348
00:32:47,283 --> 00:32:49,643
Could you please identify
yourself for the committee?
349
00:32:50,763 --> 00:32:54,363
My name is Daniel Ek
and I'm the CEO and co-founder of Spotify.
350
00:32:54,443 --> 00:32:59,443
Mr. Ek, you previously
described Spotify's mission as:
351
00:32:59,523 --> 00:33:03,083
"To unlock the potential
of human creativity
352
00:33:03,163 --> 00:33:08,603
by giving a million artists
the opportunity to live off their art."
353
00:33:08,683 --> 00:33:09,683
Yes.
354
00:33:10,283 --> 00:33:12,243
How is your progress towards
that?
355
00:33:12,323 --> 00:33:16,923
Excellent. Our top tier club of artists
who can support themselves from streams
356
00:33:17,003 --> 00:33:20,803
has doubled in the last three
years and tripled since 2015.
357
00:33:21,443 --> 00:33:22,923
That's impressive…
358
00:33:23,003 --> 00:33:26,363
So, at your current rate of
growth,
359
00:33:26,443 --> 00:33:31,123
you would hit that one million
figure in… just under 75 years?
360
00:33:34,843 --> 00:33:38,323
Your business model
just doesn't work for musicians, does it?
361
00:33:38,403 --> 00:33:39,843
That's not true.
362
00:33:39,923 --> 00:33:44,043
What are the average earnings
of an artist not in your top tier?
363
00:33:44,723 --> 00:33:47,603
Well, the number of artists
changes so fast for us, you know.
364
00:33:47,683 --> 00:33:52,083
Mr. Ek, from your own data,
I can see here that the figure is…
365
00:33:52,163 --> 00:33:54,003
12 dollars a month.
366
00:33:55,803 --> 00:33:58,883
-Could you live off that?
-Well, that number is not verified.
367
00:33:58,963 --> 00:34:00,883
It's taken from your own results.
368
00:34:01,683 --> 00:34:04,683
Excuse me, Madam Chairwoman.
Mr. Ek…
369
00:34:05,643 --> 00:34:09,523
Isn't it the case that Spotify
is just one platform among many?
370
00:34:09,603 --> 00:34:12,483
Yes, that is correct.
Spotify is one platform among many,
371
00:34:12,563 --> 00:34:15,323
and artists have several platforms
to earn an income from.
372
00:34:15,403 --> 00:34:17,923
It's not fair to put all that on Spotify.
373
00:34:19,202 --> 00:34:22,523
What percentage of the streaming market
does Spotify control?
374
00:34:22,603 --> 00:34:24,483
I believe it's around 25%, Senator.
375
00:34:24,563 --> 00:34:28,523
You control almost 45%
of the US market alone.
376
00:34:28,603 --> 00:34:32,202
In some countries,
your share is as high as 60%.
377
00:34:32,803 --> 00:34:36,883
Five times as many users
as your nearest rival.
378
00:34:37,682 --> 00:34:41,043
To all intents and purposes…
you are a monopoly.
379
00:34:41,762 --> 00:34:42,682
We are not a monopoly.
380
00:34:42,762 --> 00:34:45,963
No artist can take themselves
off your platform,
381
00:34:46,043 --> 00:34:49,803
no artist can risk losing
exposure to your audience.
382
00:34:49,883 --> 00:34:55,123
You control streaming and
you control the fate of musicians.
383
00:34:57,722 --> 00:35:01,563
I'm sorry, Senator.
Was there a question in there, or…?
384
00:35:05,043 --> 00:35:10,443
Do you believe the size of your business
model creates a problem for artists?
385
00:35:10,523 --> 00:35:14,323
Spotify is about partnering
with the artist,
386
00:35:14,403 --> 00:35:18,163
and build the music industry with
them and create a future together.
387
00:35:18,243 --> 00:35:21,723
When the Copyright Royalty Board
awarded songwriters
388
00:35:21,803 --> 00:35:26,483
their first raise in almost 50
years, how did Spotify react?
389
00:35:28,963 --> 00:35:31,563
-We sought clarification.
-You sought clarification?
390
00:35:32,363 --> 00:35:35,923
You took them to court.
You lodged an appeal against them,
391
00:35:36,003 --> 00:35:40,203
and you got lawyers to argue for
a cut in what they're paid.
392
00:35:40,283 --> 00:35:43,723
Does that sound like a company
that supports artists?
393
00:35:43,803 --> 00:35:46,363
It sounds like a company
that has its own approach,
394
00:35:46,443 --> 00:35:48,523
but we support songwriters.
395
00:35:48,603 --> 00:35:51,883
We partner with them,
we champion them.
396
00:35:51,963 --> 00:35:56,763
You use your size and marketing
budget to silence your critics, Mr. Ek.
397
00:35:57,323 --> 00:36:01,843
At every opportunity,
you do everything you can to drive down
398
00:36:01,923 --> 00:36:04,443
the share you pay musicians.
399
00:36:05,163 --> 00:36:08,323
Don't you think you have a
responsibility to these people?
400
00:36:08,403 --> 00:36:11,283
I believe that musicians
need to understand
401
00:36:11,363 --> 00:36:13,163
that I'm the best friend they've got.
402
00:36:13,243 --> 00:36:15,203
I'm the only one who's not lying to them.
403
00:36:15,283 --> 00:36:18,443
I'm the only one who's honest
about the fact that we can't go back,
404
00:36:18,523 --> 00:36:23,363
that this is a completely new industry
with new rules and new principles.
405
00:36:23,443 --> 00:36:26,283
I'm the one working day and night
to create the opportunities
406
00:36:26,363 --> 00:36:28,323
they need to achieve their dreams.
407
00:36:33,083 --> 00:36:35,123
What is Discovery Max?
408
00:36:40,283 --> 00:36:42,603
Discovery Max is a perfect example.
409
00:36:42,683 --> 00:36:44,883
It's a service that helps artists.
410
00:36:44,963 --> 00:36:46,923
Discovery Max is a service,
411
00:36:47,003 --> 00:36:50,883
in which you take
a bigger share of the artist's royalty,
412
00:36:50,963 --> 00:36:54,163
and in return offer them extra promotion.
413
00:36:54,243 --> 00:36:58,563
Well, Discovery Max is an exchange
between Spotify and the artist.
414
00:36:58,643 --> 00:37:02,923
It is straight up music industry payola,
and it has to stop.
415
00:37:03,003 --> 00:37:04,883
You're splitting hairs, Mr. Ek.
416
00:37:04,963 --> 00:37:08,523
You reduce the artist's royalty
and in return you fix the game.
417
00:37:08,603 --> 00:37:10,363
We're not fixing anything.
418
00:37:10,443 --> 00:37:15,243
The major record companies own
almost 20% of Spotify, don't they?
419
00:37:15,323 --> 00:37:18,923
It's possible. That's…
It's around that number, yes.
420
00:37:19,003 --> 00:37:22,523
So, the musicians are on the labels,
421
00:37:22,603 --> 00:37:28,243
the labels own part of Spotify, Spotify
decides which musicians get promoted,
422
00:37:28,323 --> 00:37:33,683
and then the income from the streams
goes straight back to those labels.
423
00:37:33,763 --> 00:37:36,163
What part of that
does not sound like a cartel?
424
00:37:38,563 --> 00:37:40,043
We're not a cartel.
425
00:37:40,123 --> 00:37:41,403
You control the market.
426
00:37:42,003 --> 00:37:44,363
You're in bed with your suppliers.
427
00:37:44,443 --> 00:37:48,923
And then, at every turn,
you use your reach and your technology
428
00:37:49,003 --> 00:37:51,443
to drive down the share
that you pay musicians,
429
00:37:52,043 --> 00:37:56,003
the people that depend on you
and your platform to make a living wage.
430
00:37:56,083 --> 00:37:59,363
Can you seriously sit there and tell me
that in any other part of the world,
431
00:37:59,443 --> 00:38:01,403
this would be considered acceptable?
432
00:38:04,843 --> 00:38:08,723
There's a lot of negative comments.
The word cartel seems to resonate.
433
00:38:08,803 --> 00:38:10,923
It's a few voices on social media,
nothing to…
434
00:38:13,803 --> 00:38:17,083
Let's hope they put her under
the kind of pressure they put you under.
435
00:38:22,483 --> 00:38:25,483
Would you please identify yourself
for the committee?
436
00:38:26,403 --> 00:38:28,243
My name is Bobbi Thomasson.
437
00:38:28,323 --> 00:38:30,283
I'm a musician, but I'm here today
438
00:38:30,363 --> 00:38:34,803
as the US and global head of a musicians
group called "Scratch the Record".
439
00:38:34,883 --> 00:38:37,163
That's a musicians' advocacy group?
440
00:38:37,243 --> 00:38:38,723
Yes, that's correct.
441
00:38:38,803 --> 00:38:40,123
And what are you advocating?
442
00:38:41,363 --> 00:38:44,603
When our music is used,
when it's streamed,
443
00:38:44,683 --> 00:38:49,443
we argue that musicians deserve
to be paid a fixed price per stream.
444
00:38:50,723 --> 00:38:53,563
And we want that to be recognized in law.
445
00:38:53,643 --> 00:38:57,523
We would all like to get paid more, but
that doesn't mean we can change the law.
446
00:39:00,483 --> 00:39:03,283
Musicians have lobbied streamers
for a decent cut,
447
00:39:03,363 --> 00:39:06,683
but all we ever get are words.
We need a law.
448
00:39:07,923 --> 00:39:11,443
In every generation,
there are winners and losers.
449
00:39:11,523 --> 00:39:13,923
And people say that's just how it is.
450
00:39:14,003 --> 00:39:17,003
But this Senate has always been able
to tell the difference
451
00:39:17,083 --> 00:39:19,643
between change and exploitation.
452
00:39:20,923 --> 00:39:23,323
Miss Thomasson, with all respect,
453
00:39:23,403 --> 00:39:28,843
you're not a front line worker, you're
a musician and you chose to do that.
454
00:39:28,923 --> 00:39:32,243
So you want musicians
to accept that music is precious,
455
00:39:32,323 --> 00:39:33,963
but they're interchangeable?
456
00:39:34,043 --> 00:39:36,563
-That's not what I said.
-It is what you said.
457
00:39:36,643 --> 00:39:38,843
It's what everybody always says.
458
00:39:38,923 --> 00:39:40,723
But if you want to enjoy something,
459
00:39:40,803 --> 00:39:44,163
you have no right to ignore
the conditions it was made in.
460
00:39:44,243 --> 00:39:46,643
Spotify is… It's just a platform.
461
00:39:47,883 --> 00:39:52,043
Spotify churns out a product
to millions of phones and laptops,
462
00:39:52,123 --> 00:39:53,603
like a factory,
463
00:39:53,683 --> 00:39:56,963
and the workers
that supply that product are musicians.
464
00:39:57,043 --> 00:40:00,803
Spotify is always telling us how
grateful we should be for that exposure,
465
00:40:00,883 --> 00:40:05,123
but I'm here to say
that you can't pay the bills with likes.
466
00:40:05,203 --> 00:40:07,643
We don't care
how many analytics you build,
467
00:40:07,723 --> 00:40:09,363
how many different ways you tell us
468
00:40:09,443 --> 00:40:12,203
we have more listeners in Boston
than Stockholm.
469
00:40:13,083 --> 00:40:16,883
When our work is used,
we want to get paid.
470
00:40:16,963 --> 00:40:19,163
Why is that this Senate's business?
471
00:40:19,243 --> 00:40:22,643
Why is that not for the market?
Or for the consumer?
472
00:40:22,723 --> 00:40:24,923
Because, in 1938,
473
00:40:25,003 --> 00:40:29,163
this was the Senate that introduced
a statuary minimum wage for the employees
474
00:40:29,243 --> 00:40:32,003
of the new steel and oil industries.
475
00:40:32,083 --> 00:40:34,083
Senators saw that the world had changed.
476
00:40:35,203 --> 00:40:37,043
A new law was needed.
477
00:40:38,163 --> 00:40:41,083
That minimum wage looks obvious now.
478
00:40:41,163 --> 00:40:42,563
But the bosses fought it.
479
00:40:43,483 --> 00:40:48,523
Law makers had to see that the oil
companies simply had too much power.
480
00:40:48,603 --> 00:40:54,483
That is exactly where we are today.
This is about the big monopolies of today.
481
00:40:55,323 --> 00:40:58,643
It's about whether we have the courage
to see that musicians
482
00:40:58,723 --> 00:41:02,203
are no different to oil and steel workers.
483
00:41:02,963 --> 00:41:05,203
We deserve the same rights…
484
00:41:06,003 --> 00:41:10,523
the same recognition…
and until we acknowledge that…
485
00:41:10,603 --> 00:41:14,203
streaming will always be exploitation.
486
00:41:17,563 --> 00:41:21,363
Bullshit. Exploitation? The law?
Who the fuck does she think she is?
487
00:41:21,443 --> 00:41:24,283
She's someone who knows
she's got the support of several senators.
488
00:41:24,363 --> 00:41:26,883
So what if she does? So do we. We have…
489
00:41:26,963 --> 00:41:30,923
Lobbyists. We have influence.
Do not go and talk to her, Daniel.
490
00:41:31,003 --> 00:41:35,643
I can't just ignore her anymore.
Just… stay calm.
491
00:41:51,523 --> 00:41:52,403
Hi.
492
00:41:54,123 --> 00:41:55,043
Hi.
493
00:42:00,043 --> 00:42:04,283
Well, that was… You were impressive.
494
00:42:04,963 --> 00:42:08,003
-I know you don't mean that.
-Yes, unfortunately I do.
495
00:42:08,723 --> 00:42:10,283
I'm just the messenger.
496
00:42:11,203 --> 00:42:14,003
But the message, Bobbi,
you can't be serious.
497
00:42:14,083 --> 00:42:15,683
Exploitation?
498
00:42:15,763 --> 00:42:17,923
You compare Spotify to an oil company.
499
00:42:18,003 --> 00:42:20,283
I remember what you said at the start…
500
00:42:21,203 --> 00:42:24,723
I remember your promise that everybody
would benefit from Spotify.
501
00:42:27,923 --> 00:42:29,043
Think about that.
502
00:42:35,643 --> 00:42:37,723
-Daniel.
-Yeah?
503
00:42:37,803 --> 00:42:39,843
-It's done.
-What's done?
504
00:42:39,923 --> 00:42:45,963
I just spoke to the bank and they agreed.
Another billion. You got the loan.
505
00:42:47,563 --> 00:42:48,763
Okay…
506
00:42:52,883 --> 00:42:54,563
What do we do about all this?
507
00:42:54,643 --> 00:42:59,843
Do you think the bank cares about what
a bunch of activists or senators think?
508
00:43:00,523 --> 00:43:04,763
In all this chaos
they heard only one thing: 45%.
509
00:43:05,443 --> 00:43:07,923
You control the market.
That's all they care about.
510
00:43:11,083 --> 00:43:12,003
What do you think?
511
00:43:14,283 --> 00:43:15,123
Maybe you're right.
512
00:43:15,723 --> 00:43:19,843
I might have been in politics too long.
513
00:43:21,123 --> 00:43:24,443
But listen…
This is the last loan we can take out.
514
00:43:24,523 --> 00:43:26,483
You have to figure out the business model.
515
00:43:26,563 --> 00:43:29,083
If you can't do that,
don't take the money.
516
00:43:31,643 --> 00:43:32,563
Thanks.
517
00:43:34,523 --> 00:43:35,563
Are you all right?
518
00:43:37,443 --> 00:43:38,843
Did you see where Bobbi went?
519
00:44:03,283 --> 00:44:05,603
You know what I regret the most
with Spotify?
520
00:44:07,003 --> 00:44:09,803
That I didn't leave the negotiations.
521
00:44:10,803 --> 00:44:16,043
When we sat there
in the first talks about the rights…
522
00:44:17,003 --> 00:44:20,203
I should have said, "This is the future.
523
00:44:21,403 --> 00:44:24,443
If you want to be a part of it,
it has to be on our terms."
524
00:44:25,563 --> 00:44:27,763
That would have been so damn beautiful.
525
00:44:28,563 --> 00:44:32,083
So what you're saying is
that everything will get better…
526
00:44:32,163 --> 00:44:34,603
if you listen even less to other people?
527
00:44:38,843 --> 00:44:39,883
Yes.
528
00:45:03,283 --> 00:45:07,203
Okay, guys! That was the last shot for me
and you too, guys!