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[Lieutenant Joe Kenda]
This is Alpena, Michigan
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on Thunder Bay, Lake Huron.
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There's a myth associated
with small towns
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that nothing
ever happens there.
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Well, that's not exactly tru
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because there are humans
in small towns.
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And where there are humans,
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there can be serious trouble.
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[Sara Rembisz] Yeah.
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[Kenda] When you have someon
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who is 13 years old
and is emotional,
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you begin
with one question only.
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What do you wanna tell me?
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Besides the cops and now,
I have never told this story
to anybody.
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You have a 13 year old child
described to you
the depravity of men...
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...is savage.
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I spent my career
closing murder cases.
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But I'm not the only one
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who answered the call.
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It takes a rare breed
to solve the unsolvable,
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to catch a ruthless killer,
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to find justice for the dead
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That's what it takes
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to be an American detective
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Today, is April the 6th
of 2008
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in Alpena, Michigan.
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And a fisherman
is casting his rod.
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And he sees an object
in the water.
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And it doesn't look right
to him at all.
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He calls the police.
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They discover
to their horror...
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...it is a human torso.
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A male from the waste up,
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no hips, no legs,
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badly decomposed.
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obviously been
in the water a long time.
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Dispatch, put a page
Lieutenant Thomson,
get him down here,
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immediately.
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My name is Larry Thomson.
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I was a police officer
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in Alpena, Michigan
for 35 years.
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As a detective,
I always felt
that I was speaking
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for those victims
who were no longer
able to speak for themselves.
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April 6th, 2008...
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...was a very defining day
for me.
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Thomson.
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[Thomson] I was at home
with my family.
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It was a weekend
when the phone rang,
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and it was central dispatch.
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And the dispatcher said
a body's been located
in the river.
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My mind started
racing immediately.
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What do we have?
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When I first arrived,
there was
a significant presence.
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Police officers were there,
firefighters were there.
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It became apparent
very quickly that this
was gonna be
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a major investigation
that I would be taking
the lead on.
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This was unlike
anything I'd ever seen.
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And you have to think
about where we are.
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Murders don't happen
in this town.
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They've had one
in the past 35 years.
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So Thomson is looking
at this thing thinking,
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"Could this be somebody
who was drunk
and fell off a boat
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and got cut in two
by a propeller from a ship."
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What are you thinking?
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I think it's too soon to tell.
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Hold on a second.
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I immediately contacted
the owners of the dam
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and asked that the dam
be shutdown.
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Officers were tasked
with searching the shoreline.
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Diver's here.
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They asked for a dive team
to search for the remainder
of this body.
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Where are the legs?
Where are the feet?
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Where are the hips?
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They searched thoroughly...
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...in the pool near the dam
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and the surrounding area.
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And they find nothing.
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So what we have
is a torso only,
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as mostly likely all
we're ever going to have.
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I went to the morgue...
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...met with the coroner,
and viewed the body.
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You don't see this every day.
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Water does terrible things
to human bodies.
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And the longer
the body's in the water,
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the more damage occurs
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to where it looks
like something out
of a horror film.
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There is no way to determine
if there's any poisons,
or any alcohol, or any drugs.
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There is no blood.
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The major organs
have turned into a jelly.
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What Dr. Ronnie was able
to determine
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was the lower portion
of the body had been severed
from the upper portion
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by some sort of what he called
mechanical means.
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How did they come to be
severed in two?
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A passing boat,
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the action of the dam itsel
that the body passed through
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We don't know.
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But he also found
puncture wounds
in the chest area.
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So with the discovery
of these wounds...
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...this is no longer
a wonderment
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of accidental death
or drowning.
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This is a homicide.
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Somebody kills this person
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by stabbing them
with a shafted weapon,
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and then cuts him up
and throws him away.
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Oh, my.
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That's a serious murder.
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I had a lot more questions
than I had answers.
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We had no idea
who the person was.
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So you look
for identifying
marks or scars.
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[Thomson]
And on the right bicep
of the victim
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was a tattoo that was still
clearly visible.
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[Kenda] It says "Lori,"
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L-O-R-I.
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A woman's name.
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That obviously became crucial
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in the the identification
of the victim.
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Any change in getting
prints on that?
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Dr. Ronnie was very quick
to say that the fingerprints
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were probably going to be
a very limited value
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simply because the body
was so deteriorated.
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You stay in the water too long
the skin wrinkles...
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...the same as when a body'
been in the water
for a long time.
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The skin is wrinkled.
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So one of the techniques
used by the coroner
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is to inject those fingertip
with saline solution
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to get a rolled print
off the finger.
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Call me
when you find something.
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Sure.
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Alpena, like any small town,
is driven by the rumor mill.
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It didn't take long somebody's
calling me up and say,
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"Hey, did you hear?
They discovered this body
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floating in
the Thunder Bay river."
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But where did they come from?
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And any number of things
could be a possibility.
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[phone rings]
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[actor Thomson]
Thomson. One second.
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We had the media
involved in not only what
had been found...
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We had divers.
They didn't find anything.
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...but also what
we were looking for.
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And as a result of that,
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we had tips coming in
about missing persons.
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What about the tattoos?
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Thomson has the name Lori.
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My fellow officers and I
were checking
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computer programs
looking for possible
missing persons
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with tattoos to rule them out.
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Wait. What was that?
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[Kenda] He finds
one particular report
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of a middle aged guy
who is missing,
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and he has a tattoo.
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So Thomson gets
a little excited.
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Rose tattoo on right arm.
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We need Lori, not roses.
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I'm gonna call the harbor,
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get a list
of all the boat rentals
for the past few months.
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[phone rings]
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[Kenda] However, Thomson get
very lucky indeed...
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Yeah.
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...with the fingerprints.
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You're kidding.
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They identified
this person Jerry Holmes,
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and he's 47 years old.
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The positive identification
of the victim from the lab
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was the biggest piece
of news that we had.
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And that really then put
our investigation
in high gear.
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Who are you, Jerry Holmes?
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When were you last seen?
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Who were you with?
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Where are you supposed to be?
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'Cause you're certainly
not there now
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You're in the morgue,
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at least part of you is.
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The police in Alpena, Michigan
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find a torso
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that has been stabbed
with something.
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a long time ago.
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Gerald Holmes.
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We had started looking
into his background,
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and people that he
might've been associated with.
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Wife's name Lori Holmes.
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There's an address.
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It's an ugly part of the job,
but it has to be done.
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I'm Lieutenant Thomson,
Alpena PD.
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I have some bad news
to tell you, ma'am.
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We found your husband dead.
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[crying] No.
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She became
very emotional, crying.
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It takes over an hour
to settle her down...
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...to where he's finally abl
to talk to her
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about his victim,
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Jerry Holmes.
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Tell me a little about Jerry.
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[Kenda] Lori proceeds to sa
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that they've been married
for nine years,
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that Jerry
had been married before.
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That he had had children
with other women.
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I'm Jerry's
second oldest daughter.
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I was around like 9, 10
when my parents divorced.
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My dad, he was a big guy.
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Hunting, fishing, outdoors,
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he lived in it. He was just
a nice guy.
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I remember the laughter
when things were good.
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[Julie Caolliflower]
He loved being a dad.
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He was willing
to help anybody.
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He loved to tell stories.
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He was a people person.
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The day that my mom told me
that my dad's body was found
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I was at work.
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[sniffles] Um...
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...hands down
one of the worst days
of my life.
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Jerry's always known how
to make me feel special.
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And he's a great father
to the kids.
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00:11:34,871 --> 00:11:38,005
[Kenda] Lori says she has
four children
by another marriage.
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00:11:38,007 --> 00:11:41,075
But Jerry is the father figure
to those children.
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00:11:42,645 --> 00:11:46,080
So Jerry came into my life
when I was five or six.
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00:11:47,150 --> 00:11:49,851
I remember being
in their wedding.
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00:11:49,853 --> 00:11:52,186
He was
a very big father figure.
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Lori explained that Jerry had
had a somewhat difficult life.
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I learned that he,
as a teenager,
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00:12:00,196 --> 00:12:02,563
had been involved in a serious
industrial accident.
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00:12:02,565 --> 00:12:04,665
[Holmes] He was working
at a factory.
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00:12:04,667 --> 00:12:07,368
It unbolted something
on a furnace.
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00:12:07,370 --> 00:12:09,370
And the furnace fell
and pinned him.
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He suffered horrible injuries
to his bottom half.
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00:12:14,043 --> 00:12:16,444
The doctors tried everything
to save it
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00:12:16,446 --> 00:12:18,546
and finally had
to amputate the leg.
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00:12:21,284 --> 00:12:22,850
[Caolliflower]
After it was amputated,
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I think he still fought
the demons of the pain.
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00:12:25,855 --> 00:12:27,455
It changed him.
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00:12:31,094 --> 00:12:34,462
[Holmes] That's when
he first started turning
to drugs, alcohol.
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00:12:35,532 --> 00:12:38,399
My dad went to A.A.,
and my mom went to Al-Anon.
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00:12:38,501 --> 00:12:42,270
So as a family,
we always worked towards
my dad's sobriety.
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00:12:42,272 --> 00:12:44,272
But the substance abuse
led to their divorce.
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00:12:45,475 --> 00:12:47,575
[Caolliflower]
After he divorced,
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00:12:47,644 --> 00:12:52,079
he was having a lot of issues
with addiction.
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He'd gotten in a car accident.
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He was court ordered
to a treatment facility
in Alpena, Michigan.
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00:12:58,254 --> 00:13:00,454
And that's where he met Lori.
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00:13:03,593 --> 00:13:08,663
I remember my mom and Jerry's
relationship being very good
in the beginning.
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00:13:09,866 --> 00:13:11,999
We went to church
all the time.
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00:13:12,068 --> 00:13:14,769
And my mom really liked
that about Jerry,
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that for once
he was a good man.
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There was a period in his life
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when he was clean,
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00:13:20,844 --> 00:13:22,977
and he was sober
for several years.
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00:13:22,979 --> 00:13:25,279
And he was
very, very, very proud of it
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00:13:26,149 --> 00:13:29,584
But he wasn't
able to overcome it.
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And he turned to drugs again.
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I do remember a lot of times
them arguing
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00:13:40,463 --> 00:13:41,829
over substance abuse.
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00:13:41,831 --> 00:13:44,966
Jerry has problems
with substance abuse
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00:13:44,968 --> 00:13:46,567
as a result
of physical injury.
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00:13:48,872 --> 00:13:51,072
Lori and he became
more distant.
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00:13:53,443 --> 00:13:55,476
There marriage
was not going well.
255
00:13:55,545 --> 00:13:59,447
I wanted to find out why
there'd not been a report
of Jerry being missing.
256
00:13:59,449 --> 00:14:01,282
They got into frequent fight
257
00:14:01,384 --> 00:14:03,150
And, ultimately,
he had left the home.
258
00:14:03,152 --> 00:14:05,953
She had not seen him
since late 2007.
259
00:14:08,258 --> 00:14:10,491
[Kenda] But now, someone
has taken that life.
260
00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,294
And Thomson's mission
is to find out who that is.
261
00:14:13,396 --> 00:14:15,663
Was there somebody else?
262
00:14:15,665 --> 00:14:18,165
There's this girl Hannah.
263
00:14:19,035 --> 00:14:21,702
Lori says the last time
she saw Jerry
264
00:14:21,804 --> 00:14:23,771
he was with a girl
named Hannah Hoffman,
265
00:14:23,773 --> 00:14:26,073
who she describes
as a friend of his,
266
00:14:26,075 --> 00:14:28,976
who also suffered
some issues with drugs.
267
00:14:29,045 --> 00:14:32,647
She did not believe that Jerry
was romantically involved
with Hannah Hoffman.
268
00:14:32,649 --> 00:14:34,548
How could I find Hannah?
269
00:14:34,550 --> 00:14:35,850
I can tell you a few places,
270
00:14:35,852 --> 00:14:37,084
and maybe
you could look for her.
271
00:14:37,086 --> 00:14:38,753
[actor Thomson] Please.
272
00:14:40,490 --> 00:14:42,690
So that gives Thomson
a place to go.
273
00:14:52,268 --> 00:14:55,269
Thomson runs the check
on Hannah Hoffman's name.
274
00:14:56,606 --> 00:14:58,773
And he finds something
that's rather alarming.
275
00:15:01,377 --> 00:15:02,843
She has a criminal record.
276
00:15:03,746 --> 00:15:05,179
Yes, she does.
277
00:15:05,248 --> 00:15:07,782
How's it coming along
with those bank accounts?
278
00:15:07,883 --> 00:15:09,550
Bank accounts
are coming along.
279
00:15:09,552 --> 00:15:13,087
And further it appears
that she's the signature
280
00:15:13,089 --> 00:15:14,789
on Jerry Holmes's
bank accounts.
281
00:15:15,825 --> 00:15:19,794
Her name is on every one
of these accounts.
282
00:15:21,164 --> 00:15:22,997
[Kenda] Jerry wasn't
able to work,
283
00:15:22,999 --> 00:15:26,400
but he received payments
for workmen's compensation.
284
00:15:26,469 --> 00:15:28,636
So he does have
a source of income.
285
00:15:28,638 --> 00:15:30,104
So she has a criminal record
286
00:15:30,173 --> 00:15:31,973
and she access to his money,
287
00:15:31,975 --> 00:15:33,541
be it a small amount of money.
288
00:15:33,543 --> 00:15:35,176
But the amount doesn't matter.
289
00:15:35,244 --> 00:15:37,545
Jerry spent six months
in the water,
290
00:15:37,547 --> 00:15:40,081
and somebody cut him in half
for God's sake.
291
00:15:40,083 --> 00:15:43,551
Million dollar motives
don't exist,
except in the movies.
292
00:15:43,553 --> 00:15:45,853
People will kill over $0.50
293
00:15:45,855 --> 00:15:47,121
if they need it.
294
00:15:51,394 --> 00:15:55,563
Detective Larry Thomson
now knows
that Hannah Hoffman...
295
00:15:55,565 --> 00:15:58,466
...is the signature
on Jerry Holmes's
bank account.
296
00:16:01,170 --> 00:16:02,770
So she has a criminal record
297
00:16:02,772 --> 00:16:05,139
and she has access
to his money.
298
00:16:05,141 --> 00:16:06,707
[man] I think we've had
a lot of breakthroughs.
299
00:16:06,776 --> 00:16:08,242
I think we just pick
this up next week.
300
00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:12,847
[Kenda] Maybe she wanted
all of it.
301
00:16:16,419 --> 00:16:17,684
-[actor Thomson] Miss Hoffman.
-Yeah.
302
00:16:18,755 --> 00:16:21,355
And the way to get all of it
has to get rid of Jerry.
303
00:16:22,792 --> 00:16:24,458
Please sit down.
304
00:16:27,864 --> 00:16:30,398
How do you know Jerry?
305
00:16:30,499 --> 00:16:34,268
We both got pretty bad
into the pain killers
and alcohol.
306
00:16:34,270 --> 00:16:35,870
[Kenda]
Hannah and Jerry Holmes
307
00:16:35,872 --> 00:16:38,272
often band together
to try to help each other.
308
00:16:38,274 --> 00:16:40,808
She said he slept on her couch
for a short period of time.
309
00:16:40,876 --> 00:16:42,743
He did not wanna go back
to Lori's home.
310
00:16:42,745 --> 00:16:46,080
And she actually went
to help him get a place
for Jerry to stay.
311
00:16:46,082 --> 00:16:49,283
This apartment, do you know
how he paid for it?
312
00:16:49,352 --> 00:16:50,851
Yeah, he paid with cash.
313
00:16:50,853 --> 00:16:52,353
I took him to the bank myself.
314
00:16:52,355 --> 00:16:54,855
Is that when your name
was placed on his account?
315
00:16:55,691 --> 00:16:57,491
And Thomson also discovered
316
00:16:57,593 --> 00:16:59,360
that Jerry himself requested
317
00:16:59,362 --> 00:17:01,695
the bank to put Hannah
on his account
318
00:17:01,764 --> 00:17:04,765
in case he was unable
to make a withdrawal
319
00:17:04,767 --> 00:17:06,867
that she could do so
on his behalf.
320
00:17:09,472 --> 00:17:11,605
[Kenda] Hannah produces
a receipt.
321
00:17:11,707 --> 00:17:13,540
Thank you.
322
00:17:13,542 --> 00:17:15,776
[Kenda] The last time she to
money out of that account
was six months prior,
323
00:17:15,878 --> 00:17:17,244
and it's for $52
324
00:17:17,246 --> 00:17:18,846
to pay that he owed
325
00:17:18,848 --> 00:17:21,148
'cause he was unable
to go to the bank.
326
00:17:21,150 --> 00:17:23,951
After speaking with Hannah,
checking bank records, etc.,
327
00:17:23,953 --> 00:17:26,987
we had pretty much ruled out
any possible motive there.
328
00:17:27,056 --> 00:17:30,491
Everything Hannah has to say
makes her come across
329
00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,261
as a friend and a caretaker
of Jerry Holmes
330
00:17:34,263 --> 00:17:36,297
and not a potential killer.
331
00:17:36,398 --> 00:17:38,966
Do you know the address
of this apartment?
332
00:17:38,968 --> 00:17:40,167
Yeah, I can write it
down for you.
333
00:17:40,169 --> 00:17:41,102
Please.
334
00:17:41,104 --> 00:17:44,271
Thomson now has
an apartment to search.
335
00:17:44,273 --> 00:17:45,473
Now, that's significant.
336
00:17:47,043 --> 00:17:48,876
What might be in there...
337
00:17:51,881 --> 00:17:55,015
...that might lead him
to someone responsible
for this death?
338
00:17:55,017 --> 00:17:56,750
I contacted the owner
of the apartment.
339
00:17:56,752 --> 00:17:58,853
[Kenda] Landlords can be
good witnesses
340
00:17:58,855 --> 00:18:00,754
because they pay attention
to people.
341
00:18:00,756 --> 00:18:03,090
What kind of person
are they renting to?
342
00:18:03,159 --> 00:18:06,393
This is the apartment
that Jerry Holmes rented
from you.
343
00:18:09,298 --> 00:18:10,898
Yeah, this's the apartment.
344
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,868
The landlord said Jerry Holmes
actually never moved in.
345
00:18:15,104 --> 00:18:17,104
It's apparent
that nobody ever lived there.
346
00:18:17,106 --> 00:18:20,207
Have you tried
Sunrise Mission yet?
347
00:18:20,276 --> 00:18:22,977
He told me Jerry frequented
the Sunrise Mission,
348
00:18:23,045 --> 00:18:25,746
which basically provides
a service
349
00:18:25,748 --> 00:18:28,582
allowing for individuals
to stay temporarily,
350
00:18:28,651 --> 00:18:30,951
helps them look for work, etc.
351
00:18:30,953 --> 00:18:33,254
[Kenda] The landlord suggest
to Thomson
352
00:18:33,256 --> 00:18:34,555
Jerry was there a lot.
353
00:18:37,894 --> 00:18:39,860
Thomson responds
to that shelter.
354
00:18:42,098 --> 00:18:43,764
And he starts asking around
355
00:18:43,766 --> 00:18:45,199
Either of you know this man?
356
00:18:46,569 --> 00:18:48,202
Everybody does know Jerry.
357
00:18:48,271 --> 00:18:50,271
Everybody liked Jerry.
358
00:18:51,107 --> 00:18:53,073
You should talk to Ben.
359
00:18:53,075 --> 00:18:56,944
A resident of the shelter says
there's a guy named Ben Haze.
360
00:18:56,946 --> 00:19:00,881
Ben had been a resident
for a period of time.
361
00:19:00,950 --> 00:19:02,483
You should ask him
about that ring he wears.
362
00:19:03,352 --> 00:19:06,754
He has seen
Ben Haze wear a ring
363
00:19:06,756 --> 00:19:08,589
that belongs to Jerry Holmes
364
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,594
Well, now, you have
some explaining to do,
Mr. Haze.
365
00:19:13,729 --> 00:19:15,863
You have a ring
that belongs to a dead guy.
366
00:19:15,865 --> 00:19:18,499
You happen to know
how he got that ring?
367
00:19:18,568 --> 00:19:20,568
I see Jerry's wife,
but I know somethin' about it.
368
00:19:21,871 --> 00:19:24,471
It became apparent
that there was some
sort of a relationship
369
00:19:24,473 --> 00:19:26,106
between Ben and Lori
370
00:19:26,175 --> 00:19:28,976
during the time
that she and Jerry
were together.
371
00:19:28,978 --> 00:19:30,644
So that kinda peaked
our interest.
372
00:19:30,646 --> 00:19:34,181
We gotta a guy wearing
his ring around
and is tapping his wife.
373
00:19:34,183 --> 00:19:37,084
Yeah, I need to put out
an APB on Ben Haze.
374
00:19:37,152 --> 00:19:39,353
Well, that just
might add up to murder.
375
00:19:43,459 --> 00:19:46,260
They run his record,
and he is wanted on a warrant,
376
00:19:46,262 --> 00:19:48,095
which means there is a God.
377
00:19:48,164 --> 00:19:51,265
You don't have to play a game
to get this guy to come in.
378
00:19:54,704 --> 00:19:57,905
Ben when he realizes
how much trouble
he could be in
379
00:19:57,973 --> 00:19:59,673
is the picture of cooperatio
380
00:19:59,675 --> 00:20:01,742
How long have you known
Lori and Jerry?
381
00:20:02,745 --> 00:20:05,479
I don't know, man,
a couple years, maybe.
382
00:20:05,548 --> 00:20:07,881
[Kenda] He explains
that he knows Jerry Holmes.
383
00:20:07,950 --> 00:20:10,050
He knows that Lori
is his wife.
384
00:20:10,052 --> 00:20:14,955
But he also knows
that Lori and Jerry
are estranged.
385
00:20:14,957 --> 00:20:18,592
Ultimately, Ben ended up
with some of Jerry's property.
386
00:20:18,694 --> 00:20:21,095
He had a ring
that Lori had given him.
387
00:20:21,163 --> 00:20:22,263
He further says
388
00:20:22,265 --> 00:20:24,498
it is one of Jerry's old rin
389
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,100
that he doesn't want anymore.
390
00:20:26,102 --> 00:20:27,968
I felt kinda weird wearing it.
391
00:20:27,970 --> 00:20:30,504
And Ben said
he gave it back to Lori.
392
00:20:30,606 --> 00:20:32,506
What he told us
was believable.
393
00:20:32,608 --> 00:20:34,008
He'd spoke
very highly of Jerry.
394
00:20:34,076 --> 00:20:36,577
Um, so there was nothing
that would indicate
395
00:20:36,646 --> 00:20:38,846
that he would have
any involvement
396
00:20:38,848 --> 00:20:40,481
in this suspicious death.
397
00:20:40,582 --> 00:20:43,350
Thomson loses interest
in him as a suspect.
398
00:20:45,154 --> 00:20:46,887
This investigation
was stalled.
399
00:20:46,989 --> 00:20:48,889
For the Alpena area,
this was huge.
400
00:20:48,991 --> 00:20:51,058
We had people asking questio
401
00:20:51,060 --> 00:20:52,359
multiple times a day,
402
00:20:52,361 --> 00:20:54,094
wanting to know,
"Where ya at?"
403
00:20:55,598 --> 00:20:56,797
I can be honest with you.
404
00:20:56,899 --> 00:20:58,565
Some days
it seemed overwhelming.
405
00:20:58,567 --> 00:21:01,068
I wanted to know
exactly what happened.
406
00:21:03,739 --> 00:21:05,873
But, more importantly,
his family needed to know.
407
00:21:05,875 --> 00:21:09,143
I just remember it seemed
like it was helter-skelter.
408
00:21:09,145 --> 00:21:10,978
And you just wanna know.
409
00:21:10,980 --> 00:21:15,249
They was fixated on the mark
that was on Jerry's body.
410
00:21:15,251 --> 00:21:18,552
It just always came back to
it didn't make sense.
411
00:21:18,554 --> 00:21:20,888
Everyone is tortured
in a murder case,
412
00:21:20,956 --> 00:21:22,189
beginning with the victim
413
00:21:22,258 --> 00:21:24,124
and then all the survivors.
414
00:21:24,126 --> 00:21:26,994
The families have to suffer
through not knowing.
415
00:21:26,996 --> 00:21:29,563
In this case,
that can't even have
a proper funeral.
416
00:21:29,565 --> 00:21:31,565
They can't bury
all of their loved one.
417
00:21:31,567 --> 00:21:33,400
It's just a terrible
situation.
418
00:21:33,469 --> 00:21:36,003
And every day they ask
you, "What have
you done today?"
419
00:21:36,672 --> 00:21:37,871
[knocking at door]
420
00:21:37,873 --> 00:21:40,708
-Lieutenant?
I'm sorry to bother you.
-Come on in.
421
00:21:40,776 --> 00:21:44,778
It was not uncommon for Lori
to call or even come in
to see me, asking questions,
422
00:21:44,847 --> 00:21:46,480
"Hey, where are you at?
What have you found?"
423
00:21:46,549 --> 00:21:49,049
In the community, people
were saying, "Is this
ever going to be solved?"
424
00:21:49,051 --> 00:21:50,551
And I think Lori
was feeling that.
425
00:21:50,553 --> 00:21:53,454
You'll be the first person
we call when we do
find something.
426
00:21:56,125 --> 00:21:58,559
That's one of the hardest
things for police officers is
427
00:21:58,561 --> 00:22:01,795
how do you accept the fact
that it is the best
that you can do?
428
00:22:01,897 --> 00:22:03,664
There were sometimes
very long days,
429
00:22:03,666 --> 00:22:05,099
heart-wrenching,
gut-wrenching.
430
00:22:15,644 --> 00:22:18,979
On the morning
of August 24, 2009,
431
00:22:18,981 --> 00:22:22,950
over a year since Jerry Holm
was pulled out of the water
near the dam.
432
00:22:24,653 --> 00:22:26,253
[cell phone ringing]
433
00:22:28,257 --> 00:22:29,289
Thomson.
434
00:22:29,291 --> 00:22:30,657
[dispatcher] Lieutenant
Thomson?
435
00:22:30,725 --> 00:22:34,094
Thomson gets a phone call
that's gonna break
this case wide open.
436
00:22:37,099 --> 00:22:38,098
You're kidding me.
437
00:22:38,100 --> 00:22:40,667
I received a phone call
from dispatch.
438
00:22:40,669 --> 00:22:43,103
I'm on my way.
439
00:22:43,105 --> 00:22:46,807
And I was told that Sara,
Lori's daughter,
wanted to talk to me.
440
00:22:49,445 --> 00:22:52,146
I had been waiting a long
time for something to happen.
441
00:22:52,148 --> 00:22:54,081
I didn't know what
it was going to be.
442
00:22:54,183 --> 00:22:57,651
But, when I got this phone
call, I thought in the back
of my mind, "Is this it?"
443
00:22:59,555 --> 00:23:00,988
Where is she?
444
00:23:00,990 --> 00:23:02,890
She's down here
waiting for you in Room 2.
445
00:23:06,061 --> 00:23:07,661
Is her mom with her?
446
00:23:07,663 --> 00:23:08,762
No.
447
00:23:11,801 --> 00:23:15,102
Sara at that time was
13 years old, a child.
448
00:23:15,171 --> 00:23:17,504
She had some troubles
of her own and as a result,
449
00:23:17,573 --> 00:23:21,308
Sara was physically
separated from her mother
at that moment.
450
00:23:21,376 --> 00:23:25,979
And actually, she spoke to me
with the consent of her
foster mother at that time.
451
00:23:41,163 --> 00:23:43,664
Sara had shared with me,
during that conversation,
452
00:23:43,666 --> 00:23:45,466
this was something that
she had thought
453
00:23:45,468 --> 00:23:48,368
previously that she could
take to her grave.
454
00:23:48,370 --> 00:23:51,305
But she had come
to the realization that
she had to tell someone.
455
00:24:02,151 --> 00:24:06,086
But now she's willing
to say because she's
probably always known.
456
00:24:06,088 --> 00:24:09,256
I told the detectives that I
knew who killed Jerry.
457
00:24:09,258 --> 00:24:11,458
Well, my, my, my.
458
00:24:14,697 --> 00:24:16,497
Besides the cops and now,
459
00:24:16,565 --> 00:24:19,466
I have never told this
story to anybody.
460
00:24:19,468 --> 00:24:22,803
Honestly, I think I decided
to do this interview because
461
00:24:22,872 --> 00:24:25,138
Jerry's story needs
to be told.
462
00:24:25,140 --> 00:24:29,176
Jerry deserved justice
and my story needs to be told.
463
00:24:29,245 --> 00:24:31,345
I think we all deserve
some closure,
464
00:24:31,347 --> 00:24:33,981
and I'm really hoping that
that's what this gives me.
465
00:24:34,984 --> 00:24:36,850
[Kenda] Sara is
a 13-year-old kid,
466
00:24:36,852 --> 00:24:38,986
can what she says
be relied upon?
467
00:24:39,087 --> 00:24:41,455
Well, let's find out what
she has to say first.
468
00:24:41,457 --> 00:24:43,657
But it certainly sounds
very promising.
469
00:24:56,105 --> 00:24:58,272
At the time,
I was in foster care.
470
00:24:58,274 --> 00:25:01,842
And I got really close
to what was my foster mom.
471
00:25:01,844 --> 00:25:05,312
And it wasn't until one
day I finally asked her
472
00:25:05,314 --> 00:25:06,647
if I told her something,
473
00:25:06,649 --> 00:25:09,082
that she had to promise me
that she would never tell,
474
00:25:09,151 --> 00:25:11,084
or I would kill myself.
475
00:25:11,153 --> 00:25:14,054
And she told me
that she wouldn't.
476
00:25:14,056 --> 00:25:16,456
And all that I had
told her at the time
477
00:25:16,458 --> 00:25:18,158
was that I knew
who killed Jerry.
478
00:25:19,695 --> 00:25:23,397
[Kenda] When you have
someone who is 13 years old
and is emotional,
479
00:25:23,465 --> 00:25:26,099
you have to approach them
as an understanding person.
480
00:25:36,745 --> 00:25:38,745
Sara shared with me
very openly
481
00:25:38,747 --> 00:25:41,081
Lori had actually
awakened her
in the middle of the night.
482
00:25:44,386 --> 00:25:46,086
Sara, Sara, Sara!
483
00:25:46,155 --> 00:25:47,854
You gotta listen!
You gotta get up!
484
00:25:47,856 --> 00:25:51,992
I had to stop her because
I could barely understand
her as I was just waking up.
485
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,701
And I really didn't know
what she was talking about.
486
00:26:05,074 --> 00:26:07,874
She had asked me to come
with her to the basement.
487
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,160
[screaming] Oh, my God! Jerry!
488
00:26:28,464 --> 00:26:31,999
And that is when I see
that Jerry was laying
on the floor.
489
00:26:32,034 --> 00:26:33,367
[crying] Oh, my God!
490
00:26:35,304 --> 00:26:38,672
And I knew that he was dead.
491
00:26:42,344 --> 00:26:45,145
Lori told her that she
had stabbed Jerry.
492
00:26:48,517 --> 00:26:53,053
So Thomson is recalling
all the times Lori called him
493
00:26:53,055 --> 00:26:55,389
to see what's happening
with the case.
494
00:26:55,490 --> 00:26:57,791
Lori wants to know,
are they getting close to her.
495
00:26:57,893 --> 00:27:01,361
She wants to know if they'v
figured out if it's her.
496
00:27:01,363 --> 00:27:04,765
All part of the sociopathy
that she feels.
497
00:27:17,746 --> 00:27:18,678
No!
498
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,547
[Kenda] Smells
trigger memories.
499
00:27:20,549 --> 00:27:23,116
Smells will never be forgotten
500
00:27:23,118 --> 00:27:24,684
when they are traumatic.
501
00:27:24,686 --> 00:27:28,288
You smell death for the first
time, you'll always
know what it is.
502
00:27:28,357 --> 00:27:29,990
Training tells us that
that's one of the things,
503
00:27:30,092 --> 00:27:31,558
if people talk about smells,
504
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,294
that usually means there's
some level of truth
to what they're telling.
505
00:27:34,363 --> 00:27:36,163
[crying]
506
00:27:43,272 --> 00:27:45,605
My mom, she asked for help.
507
00:27:45,674 --> 00:27:47,474
She needed help,
she didn't know
508
00:27:47,476 --> 00:27:49,576
how she was going
to take care of it,
509
00:27:49,678 --> 00:27:51,078
how she was going to lift it.
510
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,246
I didn't know what was
going on, I was shaking.
511
00:27:53,248 --> 00:27:57,417
I just had no idea how
to take all of it in.
512
00:27:57,419 --> 00:27:59,186
There is such a thing
as dead weight.
513
00:27:59,287 --> 00:28:01,288
Jerry Holmes is not
a big man, but he's dead.
514
00:28:01,356 --> 00:28:06,460
She cannot pick him up
and get him back up
the stairs. Can't do it.
515
00:28:15,370 --> 00:28:19,372
What kind of psychotic mind
would ask for aid
516
00:28:19,374 --> 00:28:21,441
in moving a dead person
517
00:28:21,443 --> 00:28:24,244
from their 13-year-old
daughter who believes
518
00:28:24,246 --> 00:28:26,646
that dead person is her
father figure?
519
00:28:27,983 --> 00:28:30,250
How much of a sociopath
do you have to be
520
00:28:30,252 --> 00:28:32,753
to disregard the feelings
of others?
521
00:28:32,755 --> 00:28:35,155
I need something from you.
522
00:28:35,157 --> 00:28:37,190
I don't care about you.
523
00:28:37,259 --> 00:28:38,792
You have to help me.
524
00:28:38,861 --> 00:28:40,460
You're my daughter.
525
00:28:41,764 --> 00:28:45,098
My mom did threaten me
that if I told anybody
526
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,200
that the same would
happen to me.
527
00:28:49,171 --> 00:28:51,772
Everybody was
afraid of my mom.
528
00:28:59,648 --> 00:29:00,981
[Kenda] Is Lori
capable of that?
529
00:29:01,082 --> 00:29:02,983
Without question she's
capable of that.
530
00:29:03,051 --> 00:29:07,254
She would kill every kid
in that house if it meant
saving her own hide.
531
00:29:07,256 --> 00:29:08,889
That's what it means
to be a sociopath.
532
00:29:13,695 --> 00:29:16,062
[crying]
533
00:29:19,568 --> 00:29:21,568
[Sara] So I got
up the stairs...
534
00:29:23,272 --> 00:29:26,072
[chainsaw starting]
535
00:29:27,876 --> 00:29:30,844
[sawing]
536
00:29:47,362 --> 00:29:49,863
[sawing]
537
00:29:51,500 --> 00:29:54,868
Sara hides under the covers
upstairs as any kid would do.
538
00:29:54,870 --> 00:29:56,870
[sawing]
539
00:29:58,707 --> 00:30:02,742
Mommy dearest has decided
if she cuts this guy
into two pieces,
540
00:30:02,744 --> 00:30:04,244
she can handle the pieces.
541
00:30:04,246 --> 00:30:08,582
[sawing]
542
00:30:08,650 --> 00:30:12,519
[Thomson] Dr. Ronnie had
verified that the body had
been cut in half
543
00:30:12,521 --> 00:30:13,987
with some sort of mechanism.
544
00:30:14,089 --> 00:30:15,889
Would a saw be mechanism?
It certainly would.
545
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,362
My mom had went and bought
a lot of chemicals.
546
00:30:22,364 --> 00:30:25,866
Bleach and Pine-Sol
were the main things
I remember.
547
00:30:25,868 --> 00:30:29,069
And she was down there
for hours, if not days.
548
00:30:30,772 --> 00:30:31,771
Just cleaning...
549
00:30:33,275 --> 00:30:36,076
Mopping, every single
room down there.
550
00:30:42,384 --> 00:30:46,019
I was having difficulty
keeping my emotions in check
during the conversation
551
00:30:46,021 --> 00:30:47,754
simply because of what
I was hearing.
552
00:30:47,756 --> 00:30:50,757
For a 13-year-old telling
me what happened,
553
00:30:50,759 --> 00:30:54,261
Sara did a great job
of explaining things.
554
00:30:54,263 --> 00:30:58,064
This conversation I was
having with Sara was
very emotional for me.
555
00:30:58,066 --> 00:31:00,200
They had to go back later
and review the videotape
556
00:31:00,302 --> 00:31:02,002
just to be sure I heard
what I heard.
557
00:31:23,792 --> 00:31:27,761
This girl is brave enough
to come forward
and tell someone
558
00:31:27,763 --> 00:31:30,997
that her mother was
a monster and a killer.
559
00:31:57,993 --> 00:32:01,594
It is a terrible thing
to have a 13-year-old child
560
00:32:01,696 --> 00:32:04,364
describe to you the inhumanity
of her own mother.
561
00:32:04,366 --> 00:32:06,599
Your heart goes out
to that kid.
562
00:32:06,668 --> 00:32:11,504
She's been exposed suddenly
to what a homicide detectiv
gets exposed to every day.
563
00:32:11,573 --> 00:32:16,343
The depravity of man
or woman is limitless.
564
00:32:16,345 --> 00:32:20,447
Humans would embarrass
a great white shark
in how they kill.
565
00:32:20,449 --> 00:32:22,515
Savage.
566
00:32:22,517 --> 00:32:25,986
[Thomson] But obviously, we'
talking about close to a yea
after the body had been foun
567
00:32:26,087 --> 00:32:29,089
The home where Lori
had lived had changed hands.
568
00:32:30,659 --> 00:32:32,092
The basement had
been cleaned out.
569
00:32:32,094 --> 00:32:33,994
They look, they find nothing.
570
00:32:34,095 --> 00:32:36,363
Everyone is in consternation.
571
00:32:38,367 --> 00:32:41,968
Thomson decides, well,
she didn't take this body
and leave it here.
572
00:32:41,970 --> 00:32:43,503
She had to remove
it from the house.
573
00:32:45,273 --> 00:32:47,807
Well, there's a truck
that Lori drives.
574
00:32:47,876 --> 00:32:50,143
They have a warrant
seeking physical evidence
of murder.
575
00:32:50,145 --> 00:32:51,277
That includes the truck.
576
00:32:52,481 --> 00:32:55,081
They take it back to
the police laboratory.
577
00:32:55,083 --> 00:32:57,150
And another of those
"A-ha!" moments.
578
00:32:59,254 --> 00:33:02,889
The seat of the truck
had been cleaned
quite extensively.
579
00:33:02,958 --> 00:33:07,560
They find nothing in it,
until a sharp-eyed
forensic investigator says
580
00:33:07,562 --> 00:33:08,561
"What's this?"
581
00:33:08,563 --> 00:33:10,163
Detective!
582
00:33:13,468 --> 00:33:16,636
There was blood
on the seatbelt
on the passenger side.
583
00:33:16,638 --> 00:33:18,304
She almost cleaned the truck.
584
00:33:18,406 --> 00:33:21,207
But almost only counts
in horseshoes
and hand grenades.
585
00:33:21,243 --> 00:33:23,643
One drop of blood.
586
00:33:23,645 --> 00:33:26,146
You say, "Well, isn't that
remarkable?" Yeah,
it is remarkable.
587
00:33:26,148 --> 00:33:27,347
Is one drop of blood enough?
588
00:33:27,983 --> 00:33:29,449
Yeah, it is.
589
00:33:30,385 --> 00:33:34,120
The seatbelt was actually
fully extended when
the blood got on it.
590
00:33:34,122 --> 00:33:37,357
So, in other words, the onl
way that blood would
have gotten there,
591
00:33:37,359 --> 00:33:40,693
would have been if
the seatbelt was extended
and connected to the buckle,
592
00:33:40,762 --> 00:33:41,861
around somebody.
593
00:33:41,929 --> 00:33:44,864
Jerry doesn't drive 'cause
he has an artificial leg.
594
00:33:44,866 --> 00:33:48,668
Lori drives and Jerry
sits in the passenger
side of the truck.
595
00:33:48,670 --> 00:33:53,073
What if they're together
and Lori attacks him
with something
596
00:33:53,075 --> 00:33:55,842
and stabs him to death
with it, in the truck?
597
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,181
The difficulty is they don't
have blood from Jerry Holmes.
598
00:34:01,282 --> 00:34:03,283
Water destroyed the blood.
599
00:34:04,453 --> 00:34:05,885
But what we do have
600
00:34:05,954 --> 00:34:08,655
is Jerry Holmes has children
601
00:34:08,657 --> 00:34:09,556
Well, now.
602
00:34:09,558 --> 00:34:12,092
They needed a source
of my dad's DNA.
603
00:34:12,094 --> 00:34:14,427
We were willing to help
however we could.
604
00:34:14,429 --> 00:34:16,563
[Kenda] So Thomson
submits it to the lab,
605
00:34:16,565 --> 00:34:18,097
and waits for the phone
to ring.
606
00:34:20,001 --> 00:34:24,003
That test is gonna tell him
if everything Sara said
was the truth,
607
00:34:24,005 --> 00:34:26,673
and Lori is the killer
in this case.
608
00:34:29,644 --> 00:34:31,744
We have a case that's
gone on for a year.
609
00:34:31,746 --> 00:34:33,980
Now we're waiting for the one
key piece of evidence,
610
00:34:34,082 --> 00:34:35,949
the blood found
in Lori's truck,
611
00:34:35,951 --> 00:34:40,086
to determine, whether or not,
Jerry died in that truck.
612
00:34:41,156 --> 00:34:42,489
[phone ringing]
613
00:34:44,092 --> 00:34:45,158
Thomson.
614
00:34:46,928 --> 00:34:48,494
I see.
615
00:34:48,496 --> 00:34:52,132
Thomson gets the magic
phone call that the cheek
swab from the daughter
616
00:34:52,134 --> 00:34:56,002
shows that the drop of blood
found in the pickup truck
617
00:34:56,104 --> 00:34:59,172
belongs to Jerry Holmes
and to no one else
on this planet.
618
00:34:59,174 --> 00:35:02,575
Game, set, and match.
619
00:35:02,677 --> 00:35:04,444
Thank you very much
for the call.
620
00:35:08,083 --> 00:35:10,150
[Thomson] With this new
scientific evidence,
621
00:35:10,152 --> 00:35:12,886
we felt that there was
enough to charge Lori.
622
00:35:12,954 --> 00:35:14,988
[sirens wailing]
623
00:35:22,197 --> 00:35:23,496
She was arrested for murder.
624
00:35:38,647 --> 00:35:40,146
So she basically shut us down.
625
00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:44,684
Everybody was
preparing for a trial.
626
00:35:44,753 --> 00:35:47,353
And I was scared to face her.
627
00:35:47,355 --> 00:35:48,855
I couldn't wait for the trial.
628
00:35:48,857 --> 00:35:51,257
I wanted to see everything
thrown at her.
629
00:35:51,259 --> 00:35:54,494
Any murder case,
it takes one to two years
630
00:35:54,596 --> 00:35:57,397
and sometimes more
to get into a courtroom.
631
00:35:57,465 --> 00:35:59,866
In the case of Lori,
she decides
632
00:35:59,868 --> 00:36:02,569
it's probably in her interest
to plead guilty and she does.
633
00:36:02,571 --> 00:36:04,704
She pleads guilty to murder.
634
00:36:09,544 --> 00:36:13,379
When Lori showed up
in court, I drove
250 miles to be there
635
00:36:13,448 --> 00:36:15,648
because I felt that that
was some closure for me.
636
00:36:16,651 --> 00:36:17,617
[gavel banging]
637
00:36:17,619 --> 00:36:19,752
Please approach the bench
here, Ms. Holmes.
638
00:36:22,057 --> 00:36:24,257
I remember Lori
in the courtroom...
639
00:36:25,994 --> 00:36:28,895
And she was built like
a monster is what
I've always said.
640
00:36:31,866 --> 00:36:35,768
I can't even explain
the feelings I had sitting
there, watching her demeanor.
641
00:36:37,272 --> 00:36:39,572
Stone-faced, like
she didn't care.
642
00:36:39,574 --> 00:36:40,773
There was no remorse.
643
00:36:44,980 --> 00:36:47,146
Lori's explanation was that...
644
00:36:47,148 --> 00:36:49,649
I went to find Jerry,
where he was staying.
645
00:36:49,651 --> 00:36:52,752
[Thomson] Lori had gone
to the apartment where
Jerry was staying
646
00:36:52,754 --> 00:36:55,588
and had wanted him
to come back home.
647
00:36:56,758 --> 00:36:58,958
I promise you it's gonna be
so different now.
648
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:00,793
-Everything is going
to be different--
-No! Damn it, Lori.
649
00:37:00,895 --> 00:37:02,095
You gotta quit this.
650
00:37:02,163 --> 00:37:04,063
Jerry had been
resistant to that.
651
00:37:04,065 --> 00:37:06,266
Get in the car
and come home.
Please.
652
00:37:07,369 --> 00:37:10,069
[Kenda] She says, "Please,
get in the truck.
653
00:37:10,071 --> 00:37:11,371
"Let's talk about this."
654
00:37:15,076 --> 00:37:17,243
She finally convinces him
to get into the truck.
655
00:37:17,245 --> 00:37:18,678
They drive away.
656
00:37:18,780 --> 00:37:20,246
They stop somewhere.
657
00:37:20,248 --> 00:37:22,448
[rock music playing on radio]
658
00:37:22,450 --> 00:37:25,551
-You can come home.
-You're wasting
your time, Lori.
659
00:37:25,553 --> 00:37:28,554
[Thomson] She wanted
to have a relationship
with Jerry,
660
00:37:28,556 --> 00:37:29,856
but Jerry was done with her,
661
00:37:29,858 --> 00:37:31,391
and Lori didn't like that.
662
00:37:31,492 --> 00:37:33,459
So what does this spark
in this case?
663
00:37:33,461 --> 00:37:35,561
Well, you gotta consider
who the players are.
664
00:37:36,331 --> 00:37:38,097
Lori is psychotic.
665
00:37:38,099 --> 00:37:40,867
Lori is sociopathic,
she's all those things.
666
00:37:41,770 --> 00:37:44,037
Lori if she doesn't get
what she wants,
667
00:37:44,039 --> 00:37:46,572
she will do whatever she
needs to, to get that.
668
00:37:46,574 --> 00:37:48,875
There's no point.
It never works out.
669
00:37:51,146 --> 00:37:53,146
[Kenda] Jerry finally
decides he's had enough.
670
00:37:53,148 --> 00:37:56,349
Lori's approach is
no one leaves me.
671
00:37:56,351 --> 00:37:59,352
I am in control of the plane
672
00:37:59,354 --> 00:38:03,790
I put the world on
automatic pilot when
I go to sleep at night.
673
00:38:03,891 --> 00:38:05,458
This isn't getting
us anywhere.
674
00:38:05,460 --> 00:38:08,161
-I gotta go.
-Jerry!
675
00:38:08,163 --> 00:38:12,665
Lori takes a screwdriver
out from under the seat
where she keeps it.
676
00:38:14,569 --> 00:38:15,501
[screaming]
677
00:38:15,570 --> 00:38:16,736
[Jerry] No!
678
00:38:20,775 --> 00:38:24,977
And proceeds to stab Jerry
in the abdomen multiple times.
679
00:38:25,046 --> 00:38:26,846
Thus your shafted weapon.
680
00:38:27,849 --> 00:38:29,082
[screaming]
681
00:38:30,151 --> 00:38:32,185
Reason goes out the window,
682
00:38:32,253 --> 00:38:34,554
and what is left is
nothing but violence.
683
00:38:35,090 --> 00:38:37,156
[screaming]
684
00:38:41,696 --> 00:38:46,199
A relatively helpless guy
can be easily attacked
by a woman.
685
00:38:46,267 --> 00:38:49,001
Particularly by a banshee
like Lori.
686
00:38:49,771 --> 00:38:51,571
Who is absolutely
out of control.
687
00:38:58,646 --> 00:39:02,415
And out of her anger
toward him, she ended
up taking his life.
688
00:39:04,052 --> 00:39:05,385
[Kenda] She takes him home.
689
00:39:07,555 --> 00:39:08,755
The panic sets in.
690
00:39:12,994 --> 00:39:14,093
We know the rest of it.
691
00:39:14,095 --> 00:39:16,462
[chainsaw starting]
692
00:39:16,998 --> 00:39:18,731
[sawing]
693
00:39:24,005 --> 00:39:26,139
[Thomson] She basically
admitted to stabbing him,
694
00:39:26,141 --> 00:39:28,708
but never admitted that
she had dismembered the body,
695
00:39:28,776 --> 00:39:30,843
how she had disposed
of the body or anything,
696
00:39:30,845 --> 00:39:35,381
so we, to this day, don't
know exactly other than
what she told Sara.
697
00:39:38,553 --> 00:39:40,286
Lori ended up
pleading guilty...
698
00:39:41,689 --> 00:39:43,389
To second degree murder.
699
00:39:43,391 --> 00:39:46,759
Which in the state of Michigan
has a typical punishment
of life in prison.
700
00:39:51,766 --> 00:39:54,700
I think that the work that
the department did was great.
701
00:39:57,906 --> 00:40:00,973
Having to be faced with this,
day after day after day,
702
00:40:00,975 --> 00:40:03,543
it's like a brass ring that
you're trying to grab,
703
00:40:03,545 --> 00:40:04,944
but it's just elusive.
704
00:40:04,946 --> 00:40:08,448
The levels of frustration
probably ran
very high at times.
705
00:40:08,450 --> 00:40:13,586
Then, it's one tiny speck
of blood that just turns
everything around.
706
00:40:13,655 --> 00:40:16,756
Did it weigh on me?
Every day it weighed on me.
707
00:40:16,758 --> 00:40:21,761
But everybody worked
intimately together to get
the end result
708
00:40:21,763 --> 00:40:24,964
which was bringing
closure for the family,
709
00:40:24,966 --> 00:40:28,568
and giving Jerry a voice
since he no longer
was with us.
710
00:40:30,705 --> 00:40:33,906
I don't think that I'm ever
going to forgive her
for what she did.
711
00:40:35,877 --> 00:40:38,344
Because she destroyed me
at such a young age.
712
00:40:38,346 --> 00:40:40,880
And it's not like I can
just look at someone
713
00:40:40,982 --> 00:40:43,149
and talk to them, like they've
been through what I have.
714
00:40:45,787 --> 00:40:49,155
I actually posted a status
not that long ago
715
00:40:49,157 --> 00:40:51,858
because I'm not just a story.
716
00:40:51,860 --> 00:40:54,160
I'm a human being
and I have feelings.
717
00:40:54,162 --> 00:40:55,761
And I got through this.
718
00:40:55,763 --> 00:40:59,465
That's more than I could
ever be thankful for
719
00:40:59,467 --> 00:41:01,868
because I never thought
I was going to be able
to get through it.
720
00:41:05,173 --> 00:41:11,744
I hope that Sara is
able to break the chain
of her family's tragedies.
721
00:41:11,746 --> 00:41:14,447
What Sara did at such
a young age
722
00:41:14,449 --> 00:41:18,084
was probably the bravest thing
I've ever heard or seen
anybody do.
723
00:41:18,152 --> 00:41:22,355
Like, my heart breaks
for everything she
went through.
724
00:41:22,357 --> 00:41:24,190
And I'm just so
thankful for her.
725
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,593
I think of him often
and I miss him.
726
00:41:30,064 --> 00:41:32,398
I think he'd be proud
of what his children
have done.
727
00:41:32,500 --> 00:41:34,667
Jerry would be very proud
of all of his kids.
728
00:41:34,669 --> 00:41:37,069
This has just absolutely
wrecked my family.
729
00:41:38,706 --> 00:41:40,273
My dad was just a nice person.
730
00:41:40,275 --> 00:41:42,341
Too nice, clearly.
731
00:41:42,343 --> 00:41:45,845
And just somebody that
suffered from a lot
of trauma himself,
732
00:41:45,847 --> 00:41:48,247
but no matter how bad
my dad was doing,
733
00:41:48,249 --> 00:41:49,949
we always loved him.
734
00:41:49,951 --> 00:41:51,684
Um, he was our dad.
735
00:41:51,686 --> 00:41:57,056
It's just really hard knowing
that someone else took that
all away from us.
736
00:41:58,593 --> 00:42:01,093
[Kenda] Lori believed
she destroyed the evidence.
737
00:42:01,095 --> 00:42:02,795
She did. A great deal of it
738
00:42:02,864 --> 00:42:04,363
Just not all of it.
739
00:42:04,365 --> 00:42:07,567
One drop of blood
put her inside a steel box
740
00:42:07,569 --> 00:42:09,068
which is where she belonged.