1 00:00:13,991 --> 00:00:16,058 [Lieutenant Joe Kenda] This is Alpena, Michigan 2 00:00:16,060 --> 00:00:19,261 on Thunder Bay, Lake Huron. 3 00:00:19,263 --> 00:00:21,763 There's a myth associated with small towns 4 00:00:21,765 --> 00:00:23,465 that nothing ever happens there. 5 00:00:24,601 --> 00:00:26,401 Well, that's not exactly tru 6 00:00:26,470 --> 00:00:28,804 because there are humans in small towns. 7 00:00:28,872 --> 00:00:30,105 And where there are humans, 8 00:00:30,107 --> 00:00:32,174 there can be serious trouble. 9 00:00:41,752 --> 00:00:43,085 [Sara Rembisz] Yeah. 10 00:00:43,087 --> 00:00:43,985 [Kenda] When you have someon 11 00:00:43,987 --> 00:00:46,555 who is 13 years old and is emotional, 12 00:00:46,557 --> 00:00:49,057 you begin with one question only. 13 00:00:49,059 --> 00:00:50,492 What do you wanna tell me? 14 00:00:56,934 --> 00:01:01,870 Besides the cops and now, I have never told this story to anybody. 15 00:01:01,872 --> 00:01:06,775 You have a 13 year old child described to you the depravity of men... 16 00:01:09,279 --> 00:01:10,679 ...is savage. 17 00:01:14,551 --> 00:01:17,252 I spent my career closing murder cases. 18 00:01:18,989 --> 00:01:20,589 But I'm not the only one 19 00:01:20,657 --> 00:01:22,157 who answered the call. 20 00:01:23,861 --> 00:01:27,863 It takes a rare breed to solve the unsolvable, 21 00:01:27,865 --> 00:01:30,365 to catch a ruthless killer, 22 00:01:30,367 --> 00:01:33,468 to find justice for the dead 23 00:01:35,205 --> 00:01:37,205 That's what it takes 24 00:01:37,307 --> 00:01:40,175 to be an American detective 25 00:01:46,984 --> 00:01:49,684 Today, is April the 6th of 2008 26 00:01:49,753 --> 00:01:51,553 in Alpena, Michigan. 27 00:01:54,558 --> 00:01:57,092 And a fisherman is casting his rod. 28 00:01:59,363 --> 00:02:01,596 And he sees an object in the water. 29 00:02:02,533 --> 00:02:04,566 And it doesn't look right to him at all. 30 00:02:10,107 --> 00:02:11,373 He calls the police. 31 00:02:16,847 --> 00:02:18,680 They discover to their horror... 32 00:02:20,884 --> 00:02:22,751 ...it is a human torso. 33 00:02:23,854 --> 00:02:25,987 A male from the waste up, 34 00:02:26,056 --> 00:02:28,390 no hips, no legs, 35 00:02:28,458 --> 00:02:30,058 badly decomposed. 36 00:02:30,060 --> 00:02:32,160 obviously been in the water a long time. 37 00:02:32,162 --> 00:02:36,898 Dispatch, put a page Lieutenant Thomson, get him down here, 38 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:38,099 immediately. 39 00:02:48,745 --> 00:02:50,178 My name is Larry Thomson. 40 00:02:50,247 --> 00:02:51,580 I was a police officer 41 00:02:51,681 --> 00:02:53,882 in Alpena, Michigan for 35 years. 42 00:02:53,951 --> 00:02:57,085 As a detective, I always felt that I was speaking 43 00:02:57,154 --> 00:02:59,688 for those victims who were no longer able to speak for themselves. 44 00:03:09,766 --> 00:03:11,499 April 6th, 2008... 45 00:03:13,203 --> 00:03:15,470 ...was a very defining day for me. 46 00:03:17,274 --> 00:03:18,440 Thomson. 47 00:03:20,143 --> 00:03:21,243 [Thomson] I was at home with my family. 48 00:03:21,245 --> 00:03:22,777 It was a weekend when the phone rang, 49 00:03:22,879 --> 00:03:24,246 and it was central dispatch. 50 00:03:25,682 --> 00:03:28,550 And the dispatcher said a body's been located in the river. 51 00:03:33,023 --> 00:03:34,990 My mind started racing immediately. 52 00:03:34,992 --> 00:03:36,258 What do we have? 53 00:03:48,138 --> 00:03:50,872 When I first arrived, there was a significant presence. 54 00:03:52,075 --> 00:03:54,075 Police officers were there, firefighters were there. 55 00:03:54,144 --> 00:03:56,378 It became apparent very quickly that this was gonna be 56 00:03:56,446 --> 00:03:59,347 a major investigation that I would be taking the lead on. 57 00:04:02,953 --> 00:04:05,086 This was unlike anything I'd ever seen. 58 00:04:10,060 --> 00:04:12,394 And you have to think about where we are. 59 00:04:12,462 --> 00:04:14,663 Murders don't happen in this town. 60 00:04:14,665 --> 00:04:17,565 They've had one in the past 35 years. 61 00:04:19,202 --> 00:04:22,170 So Thomson is looking at this thing thinking, 62 00:04:22,172 --> 00:04:25,674 "Could this be somebody who was drunk and fell off a boat 63 00:04:25,676 --> 00:04:28,977 and got cut in two by a propeller from a ship." 64 00:04:29,079 --> 00:04:30,378 What are you thinking? 65 00:04:31,548 --> 00:04:33,348 I think it's too soon to tell. 66 00:04:33,350 --> 00:04:34,448 Hold on a second. 67 00:04:34,450 --> 00:04:37,552 I immediately contacted the owners of the dam 68 00:04:37,554 --> 00:04:38,953 and asked that the dam be shutdown. 69 00:04:46,196 --> 00:04:48,496 Officers were tasked with searching the shoreline. 70 00:04:52,869 --> 00:04:54,336 Diver's here. 71 00:04:54,338 --> 00:04:57,972 They asked for a dive team to search for the remainder of this body. 72 00:05:03,780 --> 00:05:06,281 Where are the legs? Where are the feet? 73 00:05:06,350 --> 00:05:07,949 Where are the hips? 74 00:05:07,951 --> 00:05:09,150 They searched thoroughly... 75 00:05:10,554 --> 00:05:12,387 ...in the pool near the dam 76 00:05:12,489 --> 00:05:14,255 and the surrounding area. 77 00:05:17,260 --> 00:05:18,360 And they find nothing. 78 00:05:20,097 --> 00:05:23,131 So what we have is a torso only, 79 00:05:23,133 --> 00:05:25,500 as mostly likely all we're ever going to have. 80 00:05:31,141 --> 00:05:32,373 I went to the morgue... 81 00:05:33,543 --> 00:05:36,277 ...met with the coroner, and viewed the body. 82 00:05:36,379 --> 00:05:38,980 You don't see this every day. 83 00:05:38,982 --> 00:05:41,182 Water does terrible things to human bodies. 84 00:05:41,284 --> 00:05:43,385 And the longer the body's in the water, 85 00:05:43,453 --> 00:05:44,953 the more damage occurs 86 00:05:44,955 --> 00:05:47,655 to where it looks like something out of a horror film. 87 00:05:47,657 --> 00:05:51,993 There is no way to determine if there's any poisons, or any alcohol, or any drugs. 88 00:05:51,995 --> 00:05:53,094 There is no blood. 89 00:05:53,196 --> 00:05:55,930 The major organs have turned into a jelly. 90 00:05:55,932 --> 00:05:58,600 What Dr. Ronnie was able to determine 91 00:05:58,668 --> 00:06:02,170 was the lower portion of the body had been severed from the upper portion 92 00:06:02,172 --> 00:06:05,106 by some sort of what he called mechanical means. 93 00:06:05,208 --> 00:06:07,575 How did they come to be severed in two? 94 00:06:07,644 --> 00:06:09,076 A passing boat, 95 00:06:09,078 --> 00:06:12,313 the action of the dam itsel that the body passed through 96 00:06:12,315 --> 00:06:13,581 We don't know. 97 00:06:13,583 --> 00:06:15,784 But he also found puncture wounds in the chest area. 98 00:06:18,088 --> 00:06:20,155 So with the discovery of these wounds... 99 00:06:22,159 --> 00:06:24,058 ...this is no longer a wonderment 100 00:06:24,060 --> 00:06:25,860 of accidental death or drowning. 101 00:06:25,862 --> 00:06:27,462 This is a homicide. 102 00:06:27,464 --> 00:06:29,564 Somebody kills this person 103 00:06:29,566 --> 00:06:31,666 by stabbing them with a shafted weapon, 104 00:06:31,668 --> 00:06:35,170 and then cuts him up and throws him away. 105 00:06:35,172 --> 00:06:36,070 Oh, my. 106 00:06:36,072 --> 00:06:37,872 That's a serious murder. 107 00:06:39,075 --> 00:06:42,043 I had a lot more questions than I had answers. 108 00:06:42,045 --> 00:06:44,245 We had no idea who the person was. 109 00:06:44,247 --> 00:06:48,249 So you look for identifying marks or scars. 110 00:06:48,251 --> 00:06:50,985 [Thomson] And on the right bicep of the victim 111 00:06:51,087 --> 00:06:53,154 was a tattoo that was still clearly visible. 112 00:06:54,658 --> 00:06:55,957 [Kenda] It says "Lori," 113 00:06:55,959 --> 00:06:57,759 L-O-R-I. 114 00:06:57,761 --> 00:06:58,660 A woman's name. 115 00:06:58,662 --> 00:07:00,462 That obviously became crucial 116 00:07:00,464 --> 00:07:02,096 in the the identification of the victim. 117 00:07:02,098 --> 00:07:03,898 Any change in getting prints on that? 118 00:07:03,967 --> 00:07:07,769 Dr. Ronnie was very quick to say that the fingerprints 119 00:07:07,771 --> 00:07:09,537 were probably going to be a very limited value 120 00:07:09,539 --> 00:07:12,106 simply because the body was so deteriorated. 121 00:07:13,543 --> 00:07:17,078 You stay in the water too long the skin wrinkles... 122 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,848 ...the same as when a body' been in the water for a long time. 123 00:07:19,850 --> 00:07:20,949 The skin is wrinkled. 124 00:07:20,951 --> 00:07:22,851 So one of the techniques used by the coroner 125 00:07:22,853 --> 00:07:25,854 is to inject those fingertip with saline solution 126 00:07:25,856 --> 00:07:28,556 to get a rolled print off the finger. 127 00:07:28,558 --> 00:07:29,991 Call me when you find something. 128 00:07:30,093 --> 00:07:31,359 Sure. 129 00:07:38,134 --> 00:07:41,836 Alpena, like any small town, is driven by the rumor mill. 130 00:07:41,838 --> 00:07:44,372 It didn't take long somebody's calling me up and say, 131 00:07:44,374 --> 00:07:46,341 "Hey, did you hear? They discovered this body 132 00:07:46,343 --> 00:07:47,942 floating in the Thunder Bay river." 133 00:07:47,944 --> 00:07:49,677 But where did they come from? 134 00:07:49,746 --> 00:07:52,080 And any number of things could be a possibility. 135 00:07:52,082 --> 00:07:53,915 [phone rings] 136 00:07:53,917 --> 00:07:55,316 [actor Thomson] Thomson. One second. 137 00:07:55,318 --> 00:07:58,887 We had the media involved in not only what had been found... 138 00:07:58,955 --> 00:08:00,989 We had divers. They didn't find anything. 139 00:08:01,057 --> 00:08:02,957 ...but also what we were looking for. 140 00:08:06,196 --> 00:08:07,595 And as a result of that, 141 00:08:07,697 --> 00:08:09,797 we had tips coming in about missing persons. 142 00:08:09,866 --> 00:08:11,966 What about the tattoos? 143 00:08:11,968 --> 00:08:13,768 Thomson has the name Lori. 144 00:08:13,770 --> 00:08:15,803 My fellow officers and I were checking 145 00:08:15,872 --> 00:08:18,673 computer programs looking for possible missing persons 146 00:08:18,675 --> 00:08:20,775 with tattoos to rule them out. 147 00:08:20,844 --> 00:08:23,344 Wait. What was that? 148 00:08:23,346 --> 00:08:25,747 [Kenda] He finds one particular report 149 00:08:25,749 --> 00:08:28,583 of a middle aged guy who is missing, 150 00:08:28,685 --> 00:08:29,851 and he has a tattoo. 151 00:08:29,853 --> 00:08:31,452 So Thomson gets a little excited. 152 00:08:31,454 --> 00:08:34,188 Rose tattoo on right arm. 153 00:08:35,458 --> 00:08:37,759 We need Lori, not roses. 154 00:08:37,761 --> 00:08:39,460 I'm gonna call the harbor, 155 00:08:39,462 --> 00:08:41,863 get a list of all the boat rentals for the past few months. 156 00:08:41,865 --> 00:08:43,097 [phone rings] 157 00:08:43,099 --> 00:08:45,600 [Kenda] However, Thomson get very lucky indeed... 158 00:08:45,669 --> 00:08:46,768 Yeah. 159 00:08:46,770 --> 00:08:48,603 ...with the fingerprints. 160 00:08:48,705 --> 00:08:49,671 You're kidding. 161 00:08:49,673 --> 00:08:53,308 They identified this person Jerry Holmes, 162 00:08:53,376 --> 00:08:54,943 and he's 47 years old. 163 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,281 The positive identification of the victim from the lab 164 00:09:00,317 --> 00:09:02,250 was the biggest piece of news that we had. 165 00:09:03,687 --> 00:09:07,288 And that really then put our investigation in high gear. 166 00:09:07,390 --> 00:09:09,857 Who are you, Jerry Holmes? 167 00:09:09,859 --> 00:09:12,794 When were you last seen? 168 00:09:12,862 --> 00:09:14,362 Who were you with? 169 00:09:15,465 --> 00:09:17,599 Where are you supposed to be? 170 00:09:18,768 --> 00:09:20,735 'Cause you're certainly not there now 171 00:09:20,737 --> 00:09:21,803 You're in the morgue, 172 00:09:21,904 --> 00:09:23,104 at least part of you is. 173 00:09:25,175 --> 00:09:27,041 The police in Alpena, Michigan 174 00:09:27,043 --> 00:09:29,243 find a torso 175 00:09:29,245 --> 00:09:31,546 that has been stabbed with something. 176 00:09:31,548 --> 00:09:33,481 a long time ago. 177 00:09:34,651 --> 00:09:36,751 Gerald Holmes. 178 00:09:36,753 --> 00:09:39,087 We had started looking into his background, 179 00:09:39,089 --> 00:09:41,656 and people that he might've been associated with. 180 00:09:41,658 --> 00:09:43,758 Wife's name Lori Holmes. 181 00:09:44,761 --> 00:09:46,094 There's an address. 182 00:09:57,474 --> 00:10:00,174 It's an ugly part of the job, but it has to be done. 183 00:10:03,380 --> 00:10:06,247 I'm Lieutenant Thomson, Alpena PD. 184 00:10:06,249 --> 00:10:08,583 I have some bad news to tell you, ma'am. 185 00:10:08,652 --> 00:10:10,952 We found your husband dead. 186 00:10:15,792 --> 00:10:16,724 [crying] No. 187 00:10:16,726 --> 00:10:18,993 She became very emotional, crying. 188 00:10:22,599 --> 00:10:25,900 It takes over an hour to settle her down... 189 00:10:26,002 --> 00:10:28,569 ...to where he's finally abl to talk to her 190 00:10:28,571 --> 00:10:30,271 about his victim, 191 00:10:30,273 --> 00:10:31,305 Jerry Holmes. 192 00:10:34,644 --> 00:10:36,744 Tell me a little about Jerry. 193 00:10:38,248 --> 00:10:40,181 [Kenda] Lori proceeds to sa 194 00:10:40,283 --> 00:10:42,283 that they've been married for nine years, 195 00:10:42,385 --> 00:10:43,951 that Jerry had been married before. 196 00:10:45,155 --> 00:10:47,455 That he had had children with other women. 197 00:10:48,258 --> 00:10:51,693 I'm Jerry's second oldest daughter. 198 00:10:51,761 --> 00:10:55,096 I was around like 9, 10 when my parents divorced. 199 00:10:55,098 --> 00:10:56,564 My dad, he was a big guy. 200 00:10:57,567 --> 00:11:00,802 Hunting, fishing, outdoors, 201 00:11:00,870 --> 00:11:03,104 he lived in it. He was just a nice guy. 202 00:11:03,206 --> 00:11:06,007 I remember the laughter when things were good. 203 00:11:07,343 --> 00:11:08,743 [Julie Caolliflower] He loved being a dad. 204 00:11:08,745 --> 00:11:10,978 He was willing to help anybody. 205 00:11:10,980 --> 00:11:13,147 He loved to tell stories. 206 00:11:13,149 --> 00:11:14,449 He was a people person. 207 00:11:16,186 --> 00:11:20,455 The day that my mom told me that my dad's body was found 208 00:11:20,457 --> 00:11:21,355 I was at work. 209 00:11:21,357 --> 00:11:23,558 [sniffles] Um... 210 00:11:24,994 --> 00:11:28,496 ...hands down one of the worst days of my life. 211 00:11:30,467 --> 00:11:33,167 Jerry's always known how to make me feel special. 212 00:11:33,169 --> 00:11:34,869 And he's a great father to the kids. 213 00:11:34,871 --> 00:11:38,005 [Kenda] Lori says she has four children by another marriage. 214 00:11:38,007 --> 00:11:41,075 But Jerry is the father figure to those children. 215 00:11:42,645 --> 00:11:46,080 So Jerry came into my life when I was five or six. 216 00:11:47,150 --> 00:11:49,851 I remember being in their wedding. 217 00:11:49,853 --> 00:11:52,186 He was a very big father figure. 218 00:11:53,790 --> 00:11:57,859 Lori explained that Jerry had had a somewhat difficult life. 219 00:11:57,861 --> 00:12:00,094 I learned that he, as a teenager, 220 00:12:00,196 --> 00:12:02,563 had been involved in a serious industrial accident. 221 00:12:02,565 --> 00:12:04,665 [Holmes] He was working at a factory. 222 00:12:04,667 --> 00:12:07,368 It unbolted something on a furnace. 223 00:12:07,370 --> 00:12:09,370 And the furnace fell and pinned him. 224 00:12:10,673 --> 00:12:14,041 He suffered horrible injuries to his bottom half. 225 00:12:14,043 --> 00:12:16,444 The doctors tried everything to save it 226 00:12:16,446 --> 00:12:18,546 and finally had to amputate the leg. 227 00:12:21,284 --> 00:12:22,850 [Caolliflower] After it was amputated, 228 00:12:22,852 --> 00:12:25,853 I think he still fought the demons of the pain. 229 00:12:25,855 --> 00:12:27,455 It changed him. 230 00:12:31,094 --> 00:12:34,462 [Holmes] That's when he first started turning to drugs, alcohol. 231 00:12:35,532 --> 00:12:38,399 My dad went to A.A., and my mom went to Al-Anon. 232 00:12:38,501 --> 00:12:42,270 So as a family, we always worked towards my dad's sobriety. 233 00:12:42,272 --> 00:12:44,272 But the substance abuse led to their divorce. 234 00:12:45,475 --> 00:12:47,575 [Caolliflower] After he divorced, 235 00:12:47,644 --> 00:12:52,079 he was having a lot of issues with addiction. 236 00:12:52,081 --> 00:12:53,748 He'd gotten in a car accident. 237 00:12:53,750 --> 00:12:58,252 He was court ordered to a treatment facility in Alpena, Michigan. 238 00:12:58,254 --> 00:13:00,454 And that's where he met Lori. 239 00:13:03,593 --> 00:13:08,663 I remember my mom and Jerry's relationship being very good in the beginning. 240 00:13:09,866 --> 00:13:11,999 We went to church all the time. 241 00:13:12,068 --> 00:13:14,769 And my mom really liked that about Jerry, 242 00:13:14,771 --> 00:13:17,238 that for once he was a good man. 243 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,407 There was a period in his life 244 00:13:19,508 --> 00:13:20,808 when he was clean, 245 00:13:20,844 --> 00:13:22,977 and he was sober for several years. 246 00:13:22,979 --> 00:13:25,279 And he was very, very, very proud of it 247 00:13:26,149 --> 00:13:29,584 But he wasn't able to overcome it. 248 00:13:29,652 --> 00:13:31,853 And he turned to drugs again. 249 00:13:36,659 --> 00:13:40,461 I do remember a lot of times them arguing 250 00:13:40,463 --> 00:13:41,829 over substance abuse. 251 00:13:41,831 --> 00:13:44,966 Jerry has problems with substance abuse 252 00:13:44,968 --> 00:13:46,567 as a result of physical injury. 253 00:13:48,872 --> 00:13:51,072 Lori and he became more distant. 254 00:13:53,443 --> 00:13:55,476 There marriage was not going well. 255 00:13:55,545 --> 00:13:59,447 I wanted to find out why there'd not been a report of Jerry being missing. 256 00:13:59,449 --> 00:14:01,282 They got into frequent fight 257 00:14:01,384 --> 00:14:03,150 And, ultimately, he had left the home. 258 00:14:03,152 --> 00:14:05,953 She had not seen him since late 2007. 259 00:14:08,258 --> 00:14:10,491 [Kenda] But now, someone has taken that life. 260 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,294 And Thomson's mission is to find out who that is. 261 00:14:13,396 --> 00:14:15,663 Was there somebody else? 262 00:14:15,665 --> 00:14:18,165 There's this girl Hannah. 263 00:14:19,035 --> 00:14:21,702 Lori says the last time she saw Jerry 264 00:14:21,804 --> 00:14:23,771 he was with a girl named Hannah Hoffman, 265 00:14:23,773 --> 00:14:26,073 who she describes as a friend of his, 266 00:14:26,075 --> 00:14:28,976 who also suffered some issues with drugs. 267 00:14:29,045 --> 00:14:32,647 She did not believe that Jerry was romantically involved with Hannah Hoffman. 268 00:14:32,649 --> 00:14:34,548 How could I find Hannah? 269 00:14:34,550 --> 00:14:35,850 I can tell you a few places, 270 00:14:35,852 --> 00:14:37,084 and maybe you could look for her. 271 00:14:37,086 --> 00:14:38,753 [actor Thomson] Please. 272 00:14:40,490 --> 00:14:42,690 So that gives Thomson a place to go. 273 00:14:52,268 --> 00:14:55,269 Thomson runs the check on Hannah Hoffman's name. 274 00:14:56,606 --> 00:14:58,773 And he finds something that's rather alarming. 275 00:15:01,377 --> 00:15:02,843 She has a criminal record. 276 00:15:03,746 --> 00:15:05,179 Yes, she does. 277 00:15:05,248 --> 00:15:07,782 How's it coming along with those bank accounts? 278 00:15:07,883 --> 00:15:09,550 Bank accounts are coming along. 279 00:15:09,552 --> 00:15:13,087 And further it appears that she's the signature 280 00:15:13,089 --> 00:15:14,789 on Jerry Holmes's bank accounts. 281 00:15:15,825 --> 00:15:19,794 Her name is on every one of these accounts. 282 00:15:21,164 --> 00:15:22,997 [Kenda] Jerry wasn't able to work, 283 00:15:22,999 --> 00:15:26,400 but he received payments for workmen's compensation. 284 00:15:26,469 --> 00:15:28,636 So he does have a source of income. 285 00:15:28,638 --> 00:15:30,104 So she has a criminal record 286 00:15:30,173 --> 00:15:31,973 and she access to his money, 287 00:15:31,975 --> 00:15:33,541 be it a small amount of money. 288 00:15:33,543 --> 00:15:35,176 But the amount doesn't matter. 289 00:15:35,244 --> 00:15:37,545 Jerry spent six months in the water, 290 00:15:37,547 --> 00:15:40,081 and somebody cut him in half for God's sake. 291 00:15:40,083 --> 00:15:43,551 Million dollar motives don't exist, except in the movies. 292 00:15:43,553 --> 00:15:45,853 People will kill over $0.50 293 00:15:45,855 --> 00:15:47,121 if they need it. 294 00:15:51,394 --> 00:15:55,563 Detective Larry Thomson now knows that Hannah Hoffman... 295 00:15:55,565 --> 00:15:58,466 ...is the signature on Jerry Holmes's bank account. 296 00:16:01,170 --> 00:16:02,770 So she has a criminal record 297 00:16:02,772 --> 00:16:05,139 and she has access to his money. 298 00:16:05,141 --> 00:16:06,707 [man] I think we've had a lot of breakthroughs. 299 00:16:06,776 --> 00:16:08,242 I think we just pick this up next week. 300 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:12,847 [Kenda] Maybe she wanted all of it. 301 00:16:16,419 --> 00:16:17,684 -[actor Thomson] Miss Hoffman. -Yeah. 302 00:16:18,755 --> 00:16:21,355 And the way to get all of it has to get rid of Jerry. 303 00:16:22,792 --> 00:16:24,458 Please sit down. 304 00:16:27,864 --> 00:16:30,398 How do you know Jerry? 305 00:16:30,499 --> 00:16:34,268 We both got pretty bad into the pain killers and alcohol. 306 00:16:34,270 --> 00:16:35,870 [Kenda] Hannah and Jerry Holmes 307 00:16:35,872 --> 00:16:38,272 often band together to try to help each other. 308 00:16:38,274 --> 00:16:40,808 She said he slept on her couch for a short period of time. 309 00:16:40,876 --> 00:16:42,743 He did not wanna go back to Lori's home. 310 00:16:42,745 --> 00:16:46,080 And she actually went to help him get a place for Jerry to stay. 311 00:16:46,082 --> 00:16:49,283 This apartment, do you know how he paid for it? 312 00:16:49,352 --> 00:16:50,851 Yeah, he paid with cash. 313 00:16:50,853 --> 00:16:52,353 I took him to the bank myself. 314 00:16:52,355 --> 00:16:54,855 Is that when your name was placed on his account? 315 00:16:55,691 --> 00:16:57,491 And Thomson also discovered 316 00:16:57,593 --> 00:16:59,360 that Jerry himself requested 317 00:16:59,362 --> 00:17:01,695 the bank to put Hannah on his account 318 00:17:01,764 --> 00:17:04,765 in case he was unable to make a withdrawal 319 00:17:04,767 --> 00:17:06,867 that she could do so on his behalf. 320 00:17:09,472 --> 00:17:11,605 [Kenda] Hannah produces a receipt. 321 00:17:11,707 --> 00:17:13,540 Thank you. 322 00:17:13,542 --> 00:17:15,776 [Kenda] The last time she to money out of that account was six months prior, 323 00:17:15,878 --> 00:17:17,244 and it's for $52 324 00:17:17,246 --> 00:17:18,846 to pay that he owed 325 00:17:18,848 --> 00:17:21,148 'cause he was unable to go to the bank. 326 00:17:21,150 --> 00:17:23,951 After speaking with Hannah, checking bank records, etc., 327 00:17:23,953 --> 00:17:26,987 we had pretty much ruled out any possible motive there. 328 00:17:27,056 --> 00:17:30,491 Everything Hannah has to say makes her come across 329 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,261 as a friend and a caretaker of Jerry Holmes 330 00:17:34,263 --> 00:17:36,297 and not a potential killer. 331 00:17:36,398 --> 00:17:38,966 Do you know the address of this apartment? 332 00:17:38,968 --> 00:17:40,167 Yeah, I can write it down for you. 333 00:17:40,169 --> 00:17:41,102 Please. 334 00:17:41,104 --> 00:17:44,271 Thomson now has an apartment to search. 335 00:17:44,273 --> 00:17:45,473 Now, that's significant. 336 00:17:47,043 --> 00:17:48,876 What might be in there... 337 00:17:51,881 --> 00:17:55,015 ...that might lead him to someone responsible for this death? 338 00:17:55,017 --> 00:17:56,750 I contacted the owner of the apartment. 339 00:17:56,752 --> 00:17:58,853 [Kenda] Landlords can be good witnesses 340 00:17:58,855 --> 00:18:00,754 because they pay attention to people. 341 00:18:00,756 --> 00:18:03,090 What kind of person are they renting to? 342 00:18:03,159 --> 00:18:06,393 This is the apartment that Jerry Holmes rented from you. 343 00:18:09,298 --> 00:18:10,898 Yeah, this's the apartment. 344 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,868 The landlord said Jerry Holmes actually never moved in. 345 00:18:15,104 --> 00:18:17,104 It's apparent that nobody ever lived there. 346 00:18:17,106 --> 00:18:20,207 Have you tried Sunrise Mission yet? 347 00:18:20,276 --> 00:18:22,977 He told me Jerry frequented the Sunrise Mission, 348 00:18:23,045 --> 00:18:25,746 which basically provides a service 349 00:18:25,748 --> 00:18:28,582 allowing for individuals to stay temporarily, 350 00:18:28,651 --> 00:18:30,951 helps them look for work, etc. 351 00:18:30,953 --> 00:18:33,254 [Kenda] The landlord suggest to Thomson 352 00:18:33,256 --> 00:18:34,555 Jerry was there a lot. 353 00:18:37,894 --> 00:18:39,860 Thomson responds to that shelter. 354 00:18:42,098 --> 00:18:43,764 And he starts asking around 355 00:18:43,766 --> 00:18:45,199 Either of you know this man? 356 00:18:46,569 --> 00:18:48,202 Everybody does know Jerry. 357 00:18:48,271 --> 00:18:50,271 Everybody liked Jerry. 358 00:18:51,107 --> 00:18:53,073 You should talk to Ben. 359 00:18:53,075 --> 00:18:56,944 A resident of the shelter says there's a guy named Ben Haze. 360 00:18:56,946 --> 00:19:00,881 Ben had been a resident for a period of time. 361 00:19:00,950 --> 00:19:02,483 You should ask him about that ring he wears. 362 00:19:03,352 --> 00:19:06,754 He has seen Ben Haze wear a ring 363 00:19:06,756 --> 00:19:08,589 that belongs to Jerry Holmes 364 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,594 Well, now, you have some explaining to do, Mr. Haze. 365 00:19:13,729 --> 00:19:15,863 You have a ring that belongs to a dead guy. 366 00:19:15,865 --> 00:19:18,499 You happen to know how he got that ring? 367 00:19:18,568 --> 00:19:20,568 I see Jerry's wife, but I know somethin' about it. 368 00:19:21,871 --> 00:19:24,471 It became apparent that there was some sort of a relationship 369 00:19:24,473 --> 00:19:26,106 between Ben and Lori 370 00:19:26,175 --> 00:19:28,976 during the time that she and Jerry were together. 371 00:19:28,978 --> 00:19:30,644 So that kinda peaked our interest. 372 00:19:30,646 --> 00:19:34,181 We gotta a guy wearing his ring around and is tapping his wife. 373 00:19:34,183 --> 00:19:37,084 Yeah, I need to put out an APB on Ben Haze. 374 00:19:37,152 --> 00:19:39,353 Well, that just might add up to murder. 375 00:19:43,459 --> 00:19:46,260 They run his record, and he is wanted on a warrant, 376 00:19:46,262 --> 00:19:48,095 which means there is a God. 377 00:19:48,164 --> 00:19:51,265 You don't have to play a game to get this guy to come in. 378 00:19:54,704 --> 00:19:57,905 Ben when he realizes how much trouble he could be in 379 00:19:57,973 --> 00:19:59,673 is the picture of cooperatio 380 00:19:59,675 --> 00:20:01,742 How long have you known Lori and Jerry? 381 00:20:02,745 --> 00:20:05,479 I don't know, man, a couple years, maybe. 382 00:20:05,548 --> 00:20:07,881 [Kenda] He explains that he knows Jerry Holmes. 383 00:20:07,950 --> 00:20:10,050 He knows that Lori is his wife. 384 00:20:10,052 --> 00:20:14,955 But he also knows that Lori and Jerry are estranged. 385 00:20:14,957 --> 00:20:18,592 Ultimately, Ben ended up with some of Jerry's property. 386 00:20:18,694 --> 00:20:21,095 He had a ring that Lori had given him. 387 00:20:21,163 --> 00:20:22,263 He further says 388 00:20:22,265 --> 00:20:24,498 it is one of Jerry's old rin 389 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,100 that he doesn't want anymore. 390 00:20:26,102 --> 00:20:27,968 I felt kinda weird wearing it. 391 00:20:27,970 --> 00:20:30,504 And Ben said he gave it back to Lori. 392 00:20:30,606 --> 00:20:32,506 What he told us was believable. 393 00:20:32,608 --> 00:20:34,008 He'd spoke very highly of Jerry. 394 00:20:34,076 --> 00:20:36,577 Um, so there was nothing that would indicate 395 00:20:36,646 --> 00:20:38,846 that he would have any involvement 396 00:20:38,848 --> 00:20:40,481 in this suspicious death. 397 00:20:40,582 --> 00:20:43,350 Thomson loses interest in him as a suspect. 398 00:20:45,154 --> 00:20:46,887 This investigation was stalled. 399 00:20:46,989 --> 00:20:48,889 For the Alpena area, this was huge. 400 00:20:48,991 --> 00:20:51,058 We had people asking questio 401 00:20:51,060 --> 00:20:52,359 multiple times a day, 402 00:20:52,361 --> 00:20:54,094 wanting to know, "Where ya at?" 403 00:20:55,598 --> 00:20:56,797 I can be honest with you. 404 00:20:56,899 --> 00:20:58,565 Some days it seemed overwhelming. 405 00:20:58,567 --> 00:21:01,068 I wanted to know exactly what happened. 406 00:21:03,739 --> 00:21:05,873 But, more importantly, his family needed to know. 407 00:21:05,875 --> 00:21:09,143 I just remember it seemed like it was helter-skelter. 408 00:21:09,145 --> 00:21:10,978 And you just wanna know. 409 00:21:10,980 --> 00:21:15,249 They was fixated on the mark that was on Jerry's body. 410 00:21:15,251 --> 00:21:18,552 It just always came back to it didn't make sense. 411 00:21:18,554 --> 00:21:20,888 Everyone is tortured in a murder case, 412 00:21:20,956 --> 00:21:22,189 beginning with the victim 413 00:21:22,258 --> 00:21:24,124 and then all the survivors. 414 00:21:24,126 --> 00:21:26,994 The families have to suffer through not knowing. 415 00:21:26,996 --> 00:21:29,563 In this case, that can't even have a proper funeral. 416 00:21:29,565 --> 00:21:31,565 They can't bury all of their loved one. 417 00:21:31,567 --> 00:21:33,400 It's just a terrible situation. 418 00:21:33,469 --> 00:21:36,003 And every day they ask you, "What have you done today?" 419 00:21:36,672 --> 00:21:37,871 [knocking at door] 420 00:21:37,873 --> 00:21:40,708 -Lieutenant? I'm sorry to bother you. -Come on in. 421 00:21:40,776 --> 00:21:44,778 It was not uncommon for Lori to call or even come in to see me, asking questions, 422 00:21:44,847 --> 00:21:46,480 "Hey, where are you at? What have you found?" 423 00:21:46,549 --> 00:21:49,049 In the community, people were saying, "Is this ever going to be solved?" 424 00:21:49,051 --> 00:21:50,551 And I think Lori was feeling that. 425 00:21:50,553 --> 00:21:53,454 You'll be the first person we call when we do find something. 426 00:21:56,125 --> 00:21:58,559 That's one of the hardest things for police officers is 427 00:21:58,561 --> 00:22:01,795 how do you accept the fact that it is the best that you can do? 428 00:22:01,897 --> 00:22:03,664 There were sometimes very long days, 429 00:22:03,666 --> 00:22:05,099 heart-wrenching, gut-wrenching. 430 00:22:15,644 --> 00:22:18,979 On the morning of August 24, 2009, 431 00:22:18,981 --> 00:22:22,950 over a year since Jerry Holm was pulled out of the water near the dam. 432 00:22:24,653 --> 00:22:26,253 [cell phone ringing] 433 00:22:28,257 --> 00:22:29,289 Thomson. 434 00:22:29,291 --> 00:22:30,657 [dispatcher] Lieutenant Thomson? 435 00:22:30,725 --> 00:22:34,094 Thomson gets a phone call that's gonna break this case wide open. 436 00:22:37,099 --> 00:22:38,098 You're kidding me. 437 00:22:38,100 --> 00:22:40,667 I received a phone call from dispatch. 438 00:22:40,669 --> 00:22:43,103 I'm on my way. 439 00:22:43,105 --> 00:22:46,807 And I was told that Sara, Lori's daughter, wanted to talk to me. 440 00:22:49,445 --> 00:22:52,146 I had been waiting a long time for something to happen. 441 00:22:52,148 --> 00:22:54,081 I didn't know what it was going to be. 442 00:22:54,183 --> 00:22:57,651 But, when I got this phone call, I thought in the back of my mind, "Is this it?" 443 00:22:59,555 --> 00:23:00,988 Where is she? 444 00:23:00,990 --> 00:23:02,890 She's down here waiting for you in Room 2. 445 00:23:06,061 --> 00:23:07,661 Is her mom with her? 446 00:23:07,663 --> 00:23:08,762 No. 447 00:23:11,801 --> 00:23:15,102 Sara at that time was 13 years old, a child. 448 00:23:15,171 --> 00:23:17,504 She had some troubles of her own and as a result, 449 00:23:17,573 --> 00:23:21,308 Sara was physically separated from her mother at that moment. 450 00:23:21,376 --> 00:23:25,979 And actually, she spoke to me with the consent of her foster mother at that time. 451 00:23:41,163 --> 00:23:43,664 Sara had shared with me, during that conversation, 452 00:23:43,666 --> 00:23:45,466 this was something that she had thought 453 00:23:45,468 --> 00:23:48,368 previously that she could take to her grave. 454 00:23:48,370 --> 00:23:51,305 But she had come to the realization that she had to tell someone. 455 00:24:02,151 --> 00:24:06,086 But now she's willing to say because she's probably always known. 456 00:24:06,088 --> 00:24:09,256 I told the detectives that I knew who killed Jerry. 457 00:24:09,258 --> 00:24:11,458 Well, my, my, my. 458 00:24:14,697 --> 00:24:16,497 Besides the cops and now, 459 00:24:16,565 --> 00:24:19,466 I have never told this story to anybody. 460 00:24:19,468 --> 00:24:22,803 Honestly, I think I decided to do this interview because 461 00:24:22,872 --> 00:24:25,138 Jerry's story needs to be told. 462 00:24:25,140 --> 00:24:29,176 Jerry deserved justice and my story needs to be told. 463 00:24:29,245 --> 00:24:31,345 I think we all deserve some closure, 464 00:24:31,347 --> 00:24:33,981 and I'm really hoping that that's what this gives me. 465 00:24:34,984 --> 00:24:36,850 [Kenda] Sara is a 13-year-old kid, 466 00:24:36,852 --> 00:24:38,986 can what she says be relied upon? 467 00:24:39,087 --> 00:24:41,455 Well, let's find out what she has to say first. 468 00:24:41,457 --> 00:24:43,657 But it certainly sounds very promising. 469 00:24:56,105 --> 00:24:58,272 At the time, I was in foster care. 470 00:24:58,274 --> 00:25:01,842 And I got really close to what was my foster mom. 471 00:25:01,844 --> 00:25:05,312 And it wasn't until one day I finally asked her 472 00:25:05,314 --> 00:25:06,647 if I told her something, 473 00:25:06,649 --> 00:25:09,082 that she had to promise me that she would never tell, 474 00:25:09,151 --> 00:25:11,084 or I would kill myself. 475 00:25:11,153 --> 00:25:14,054 And she told me that she wouldn't. 476 00:25:14,056 --> 00:25:16,456 And all that I had told her at the time 477 00:25:16,458 --> 00:25:18,158 was that I knew who killed Jerry. 478 00:25:19,695 --> 00:25:23,397 [Kenda] When you have someone who is 13 years old and is emotional, 479 00:25:23,465 --> 00:25:26,099 you have to approach them as an understanding person. 480 00:25:36,745 --> 00:25:38,745 Sara shared with me very openly 481 00:25:38,747 --> 00:25:41,081 Lori had actually awakened her in the middle of the night. 482 00:25:44,386 --> 00:25:46,086 Sara, Sara, Sara! 483 00:25:46,155 --> 00:25:47,854 You gotta listen! You gotta get up! 484 00:25:47,856 --> 00:25:51,992 I had to stop her because I could barely understand her as I was just waking up. 485 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,701 And I really didn't know what she was talking about. 486 00:26:05,074 --> 00:26:07,874 She had asked me to come with her to the basement. 487 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,160 [screaming] Oh, my God! Jerry! 488 00:26:28,464 --> 00:26:31,999 And that is when I see that Jerry was laying on the floor. 489 00:26:32,034 --> 00:26:33,367 [crying] Oh, my God! 490 00:26:35,304 --> 00:26:38,672 And I knew that he was dead. 491 00:26:42,344 --> 00:26:45,145 Lori told her that she had stabbed Jerry. 492 00:26:48,517 --> 00:26:53,053 So Thomson is recalling all the times Lori called him 493 00:26:53,055 --> 00:26:55,389 to see what's happening with the case. 494 00:26:55,490 --> 00:26:57,791 Lori wants to know, are they getting close to her. 495 00:26:57,893 --> 00:27:01,361 She wants to know if they'v figured out if it's her. 496 00:27:01,363 --> 00:27:04,765 All part of the sociopathy that she feels. 497 00:27:17,746 --> 00:27:18,678 No! 498 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,547 [Kenda] Smells trigger memories. 499 00:27:20,549 --> 00:27:23,116 Smells will never be forgotten 500 00:27:23,118 --> 00:27:24,684 when they are traumatic. 501 00:27:24,686 --> 00:27:28,288 You smell death for the first time, you'll always know what it is. 502 00:27:28,357 --> 00:27:29,990 Training tells us that that's one of the things, 503 00:27:30,092 --> 00:27:31,558 if people talk about smells, 504 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,294 that usually means there's some level of truth to what they're telling. 505 00:27:34,363 --> 00:27:36,163 [crying] 506 00:27:43,272 --> 00:27:45,605 My mom, she asked for help. 507 00:27:45,674 --> 00:27:47,474 She needed help, she didn't know 508 00:27:47,476 --> 00:27:49,576 how she was going to take care of it, 509 00:27:49,678 --> 00:27:51,078 how she was going to lift it. 510 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,246 I didn't know what was going on, I was shaking. 511 00:27:53,248 --> 00:27:57,417 I just had no idea how to take all of it in. 512 00:27:57,419 --> 00:27:59,186 There is such a thing as dead weight. 513 00:27:59,287 --> 00:28:01,288 Jerry Holmes is not a big man, but he's dead. 514 00:28:01,356 --> 00:28:06,460 She cannot pick him up and get him back up the stairs. Can't do it. 515 00:28:15,370 --> 00:28:19,372 What kind of psychotic mind would ask for aid 516 00:28:19,374 --> 00:28:21,441 in moving a dead person 517 00:28:21,443 --> 00:28:24,244 from their 13-year-old daughter who believes 518 00:28:24,246 --> 00:28:26,646 that dead person is her father figure? 519 00:28:27,983 --> 00:28:30,250 How much of a sociopath do you have to be 520 00:28:30,252 --> 00:28:32,753 to disregard the feelings of others? 521 00:28:32,755 --> 00:28:35,155 I need something from you. 522 00:28:35,157 --> 00:28:37,190 I don't care about you. 523 00:28:37,259 --> 00:28:38,792 You have to help me. 524 00:28:38,861 --> 00:28:40,460 You're my daughter. 525 00:28:41,764 --> 00:28:45,098 My mom did threaten me that if I told anybody 526 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,200 that the same would happen to me. 527 00:28:49,171 --> 00:28:51,772 Everybody was afraid of my mom. 528 00:28:59,648 --> 00:29:00,981 [Kenda] Is Lori capable of that? 529 00:29:01,082 --> 00:29:02,983 Without question she's capable of that. 530 00:29:03,051 --> 00:29:07,254 She would kill every kid in that house if it meant saving her own hide. 531 00:29:07,256 --> 00:29:08,889 That's what it means to be a sociopath. 532 00:29:13,695 --> 00:29:16,062 [crying] 533 00:29:19,568 --> 00:29:21,568 [Sara] So I got up the stairs... 534 00:29:23,272 --> 00:29:26,072 [chainsaw starting] 535 00:29:27,876 --> 00:29:30,844 [sawing] 536 00:29:47,362 --> 00:29:49,863 [sawing] 537 00:29:51,500 --> 00:29:54,868 Sara hides under the covers upstairs as any kid would do. 538 00:29:54,870 --> 00:29:56,870 [sawing] 539 00:29:58,707 --> 00:30:02,742 Mommy dearest has decided if she cuts this guy into two pieces, 540 00:30:02,744 --> 00:30:04,244 she can handle the pieces. 541 00:30:04,246 --> 00:30:08,582 [sawing] 542 00:30:08,650 --> 00:30:12,519 [Thomson] Dr. Ronnie had verified that the body had been cut in half 543 00:30:12,521 --> 00:30:13,987 with some sort of mechanism. 544 00:30:14,089 --> 00:30:15,889 Would a saw be mechanism? It certainly would. 545 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,362 My mom had went and bought a lot of chemicals. 546 00:30:22,364 --> 00:30:25,866 Bleach and Pine-Sol were the main things I remember. 547 00:30:25,868 --> 00:30:29,069 And she was down there for hours, if not days. 548 00:30:30,772 --> 00:30:31,771 Just cleaning... 549 00:30:33,275 --> 00:30:36,076 Mopping, every single room down there. 550 00:30:42,384 --> 00:30:46,019 I was having difficulty keeping my emotions in check during the conversation 551 00:30:46,021 --> 00:30:47,754 simply because of what I was hearing. 552 00:30:47,756 --> 00:30:50,757 For a 13-year-old telling me what happened, 553 00:30:50,759 --> 00:30:54,261 Sara did a great job of explaining things. 554 00:30:54,263 --> 00:30:58,064 This conversation I was having with Sara was very emotional for me. 555 00:30:58,066 --> 00:31:00,200 They had to go back later and review the videotape 556 00:31:00,302 --> 00:31:02,002 just to be sure I heard what I heard. 557 00:31:23,792 --> 00:31:27,761 This girl is brave enough to come forward and tell someone 558 00:31:27,763 --> 00:31:30,997 that her mother was a monster and a killer. 559 00:31:57,993 --> 00:32:01,594 It is a terrible thing to have a 13-year-old child 560 00:32:01,696 --> 00:32:04,364 describe to you the inhumanity of her own mother. 561 00:32:04,366 --> 00:32:06,599 Your heart goes out to that kid. 562 00:32:06,668 --> 00:32:11,504 She's been exposed suddenly to what a homicide detectiv gets exposed to every day. 563 00:32:11,573 --> 00:32:16,343 The depravity of man or woman is limitless. 564 00:32:16,345 --> 00:32:20,447 Humans would embarrass a great white shark in how they kill. 565 00:32:20,449 --> 00:32:22,515 Savage. 566 00:32:22,517 --> 00:32:25,986 [Thomson] But obviously, we' talking about close to a yea after the body had been foun 567 00:32:26,087 --> 00:32:29,089 The home where Lori had lived had changed hands. 568 00:32:30,659 --> 00:32:32,092 The basement had been cleaned out. 569 00:32:32,094 --> 00:32:33,994 They look, they find nothing. 570 00:32:34,095 --> 00:32:36,363 Everyone is in consternation. 571 00:32:38,367 --> 00:32:41,968 Thomson decides, well, she didn't take this body and leave it here. 572 00:32:41,970 --> 00:32:43,503 She had to remove it from the house. 573 00:32:45,273 --> 00:32:47,807 Well, there's a truck that Lori drives. 574 00:32:47,876 --> 00:32:50,143 They have a warrant seeking physical evidence of murder. 575 00:32:50,145 --> 00:32:51,277 That includes the truck. 576 00:32:52,481 --> 00:32:55,081 They take it back to the police laboratory. 577 00:32:55,083 --> 00:32:57,150 And another of those "A-ha!" moments. 578 00:32:59,254 --> 00:33:02,889 The seat of the truck had been cleaned quite extensively. 579 00:33:02,958 --> 00:33:07,560 They find nothing in it, until a sharp-eyed forensic investigator says 580 00:33:07,562 --> 00:33:08,561 "What's this?" 581 00:33:08,563 --> 00:33:10,163 Detective! 582 00:33:13,468 --> 00:33:16,636 There was blood on the seatbelt on the passenger side. 583 00:33:16,638 --> 00:33:18,304 She almost cleaned the truck. 584 00:33:18,406 --> 00:33:21,207 But almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. 585 00:33:21,243 --> 00:33:23,643 One drop of blood. 586 00:33:23,645 --> 00:33:26,146 You say, "Well, isn't that remarkable?" Yeah, it is remarkable. 587 00:33:26,148 --> 00:33:27,347 Is one drop of blood enough? 588 00:33:27,983 --> 00:33:29,449 Yeah, it is. 589 00:33:30,385 --> 00:33:34,120 The seatbelt was actually fully extended when the blood got on it. 590 00:33:34,122 --> 00:33:37,357 So, in other words, the onl way that blood would have gotten there, 591 00:33:37,359 --> 00:33:40,693 would have been if the seatbelt was extended and connected to the buckle, 592 00:33:40,762 --> 00:33:41,861 around somebody. 593 00:33:41,929 --> 00:33:44,864 Jerry doesn't drive 'cause he has an artificial leg. 594 00:33:44,866 --> 00:33:48,668 Lori drives and Jerry sits in the passenger side of the truck. 595 00:33:48,670 --> 00:33:53,073 What if they're together and Lori attacks him with something 596 00:33:53,075 --> 00:33:55,842 and stabs him to death with it, in the truck? 597 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,181 The difficulty is they don't have blood from Jerry Holmes. 598 00:34:01,282 --> 00:34:03,283 Water destroyed the blood. 599 00:34:04,453 --> 00:34:05,885 But what we do have 600 00:34:05,954 --> 00:34:08,655 is Jerry Holmes has children 601 00:34:08,657 --> 00:34:09,556 Well, now. 602 00:34:09,558 --> 00:34:12,092 They needed a source of my dad's DNA. 603 00:34:12,094 --> 00:34:14,427 We were willing to help however we could. 604 00:34:14,429 --> 00:34:16,563 [Kenda] So Thomson submits it to the lab, 605 00:34:16,565 --> 00:34:18,097 and waits for the phone to ring. 606 00:34:20,001 --> 00:34:24,003 That test is gonna tell him if everything Sara said was the truth, 607 00:34:24,005 --> 00:34:26,673 and Lori is the killer in this case. 608 00:34:29,644 --> 00:34:31,744 We have a case that's gone on for a year. 609 00:34:31,746 --> 00:34:33,980 Now we're waiting for the one key piece of evidence, 610 00:34:34,082 --> 00:34:35,949 the blood found in Lori's truck, 611 00:34:35,951 --> 00:34:40,086 to determine, whether or not, Jerry died in that truck. 612 00:34:41,156 --> 00:34:42,489 [phone ringing] 613 00:34:44,092 --> 00:34:45,158 Thomson. 614 00:34:46,928 --> 00:34:48,494 I see. 615 00:34:48,496 --> 00:34:52,132 Thomson gets the magic phone call that the cheek swab from the daughter 616 00:34:52,134 --> 00:34:56,002 shows that the drop of blood found in the pickup truck 617 00:34:56,104 --> 00:34:59,172 belongs to Jerry Holmes and to no one else on this planet. 618 00:34:59,174 --> 00:35:02,575 Game, set, and match. 619 00:35:02,677 --> 00:35:04,444 Thank you very much for the call. 620 00:35:08,083 --> 00:35:10,150 [Thomson] With this new scientific evidence, 621 00:35:10,152 --> 00:35:12,886 we felt that there was enough to charge Lori. 622 00:35:12,954 --> 00:35:14,988 [sirens wailing] 623 00:35:22,197 --> 00:35:23,496 She was arrested for murder. 624 00:35:38,647 --> 00:35:40,146 So she basically shut us down. 625 00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:44,684 Everybody was preparing for a trial. 626 00:35:44,753 --> 00:35:47,353 And I was scared to face her. 627 00:35:47,355 --> 00:35:48,855 I couldn't wait for the trial. 628 00:35:48,857 --> 00:35:51,257 I wanted to see everything thrown at her. 629 00:35:51,259 --> 00:35:54,494 Any murder case, it takes one to two years 630 00:35:54,596 --> 00:35:57,397 and sometimes more to get into a courtroom. 631 00:35:57,465 --> 00:35:59,866 In the case of Lori, she decides 632 00:35:59,868 --> 00:36:02,569 it's probably in her interest to plead guilty and she does. 633 00:36:02,571 --> 00:36:04,704 She pleads guilty to murder. 634 00:36:09,544 --> 00:36:13,379 When Lori showed up in court, I drove 250 miles to be there 635 00:36:13,448 --> 00:36:15,648 because I felt that that was some closure for me. 636 00:36:16,651 --> 00:36:17,617 [gavel banging] 637 00:36:17,619 --> 00:36:19,752 Please approach the bench here, Ms. Holmes. 638 00:36:22,057 --> 00:36:24,257 I remember Lori in the courtroom... 639 00:36:25,994 --> 00:36:28,895 And she was built like a monster is what I've always said. 640 00:36:31,866 --> 00:36:35,768 I can't even explain the feelings I had sitting there, watching her demeanor. 641 00:36:37,272 --> 00:36:39,572 Stone-faced, like she didn't care. 642 00:36:39,574 --> 00:36:40,773 There was no remorse. 643 00:36:44,980 --> 00:36:47,146 Lori's explanation was that... 644 00:36:47,148 --> 00:36:49,649 I went to find Jerry, where he was staying. 645 00:36:49,651 --> 00:36:52,752 [Thomson] Lori had gone to the apartment where Jerry was staying 646 00:36:52,754 --> 00:36:55,588 and had wanted him to come back home. 647 00:36:56,758 --> 00:36:58,958 I promise you it's gonna be so different now. 648 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:00,793 -Everything is going to be different-- -No! Damn it, Lori. 649 00:37:00,895 --> 00:37:02,095 You gotta quit this. 650 00:37:02,163 --> 00:37:04,063 Jerry had been resistant to that. 651 00:37:04,065 --> 00:37:06,266 Get in the car and come home. Please. 652 00:37:07,369 --> 00:37:10,069 [Kenda] She says, "Please, get in the truck. 653 00:37:10,071 --> 00:37:11,371 "Let's talk about this." 654 00:37:15,076 --> 00:37:17,243 She finally convinces him to get into the truck. 655 00:37:17,245 --> 00:37:18,678 They drive away. 656 00:37:18,780 --> 00:37:20,246 They stop somewhere. 657 00:37:20,248 --> 00:37:22,448 [rock music playing on radio] 658 00:37:22,450 --> 00:37:25,551 -You can come home. -You're wasting your time, Lori. 659 00:37:25,553 --> 00:37:28,554 [Thomson] She wanted to have a relationship with Jerry, 660 00:37:28,556 --> 00:37:29,856 but Jerry was done with her, 661 00:37:29,858 --> 00:37:31,391 and Lori didn't like that. 662 00:37:31,492 --> 00:37:33,459 So what does this spark in this case? 663 00:37:33,461 --> 00:37:35,561 Well, you gotta consider who the players are. 664 00:37:36,331 --> 00:37:38,097 Lori is psychotic. 665 00:37:38,099 --> 00:37:40,867 Lori is sociopathic, she's all those things. 666 00:37:41,770 --> 00:37:44,037 Lori if she doesn't get what she wants, 667 00:37:44,039 --> 00:37:46,572 she will do whatever she needs to, to get that. 668 00:37:46,574 --> 00:37:48,875 There's no point. It never works out. 669 00:37:51,146 --> 00:37:53,146 [Kenda] Jerry finally decides he's had enough. 670 00:37:53,148 --> 00:37:56,349 Lori's approach is no one leaves me. 671 00:37:56,351 --> 00:37:59,352 I am in control of the plane 672 00:37:59,354 --> 00:38:03,790 I put the world on automatic pilot when I go to sleep at night. 673 00:38:03,891 --> 00:38:05,458 This isn't getting us anywhere. 674 00:38:05,460 --> 00:38:08,161 -I gotta go. -Jerry! 675 00:38:08,163 --> 00:38:12,665 Lori takes a screwdriver out from under the seat where she keeps it. 676 00:38:14,569 --> 00:38:15,501 [screaming] 677 00:38:15,570 --> 00:38:16,736 [Jerry] No! 678 00:38:20,775 --> 00:38:24,977 And proceeds to stab Jerry in the abdomen multiple times. 679 00:38:25,046 --> 00:38:26,846 Thus your shafted weapon. 680 00:38:27,849 --> 00:38:29,082 [screaming] 681 00:38:30,151 --> 00:38:32,185 Reason goes out the window, 682 00:38:32,253 --> 00:38:34,554 and what is left is nothing but violence. 683 00:38:35,090 --> 00:38:37,156 [screaming] 684 00:38:41,696 --> 00:38:46,199 A relatively helpless guy can be easily attacked by a woman. 685 00:38:46,267 --> 00:38:49,001 Particularly by a banshee like Lori. 686 00:38:49,771 --> 00:38:51,571 Who is absolutely out of control. 687 00:38:58,646 --> 00:39:02,415 And out of her anger toward him, she ended up taking his life. 688 00:39:04,052 --> 00:39:05,385 [Kenda] She takes him home. 689 00:39:07,555 --> 00:39:08,755 The panic sets in. 690 00:39:12,994 --> 00:39:14,093 We know the rest of it. 691 00:39:14,095 --> 00:39:16,462 [chainsaw starting] 692 00:39:16,998 --> 00:39:18,731 [sawing] 693 00:39:24,005 --> 00:39:26,139 [Thomson] She basically admitted to stabbing him, 694 00:39:26,141 --> 00:39:28,708 but never admitted that she had dismembered the body, 695 00:39:28,776 --> 00:39:30,843 how she had disposed of the body or anything, 696 00:39:30,845 --> 00:39:35,381 so we, to this day, don't know exactly other than what she told Sara. 697 00:39:38,553 --> 00:39:40,286 Lori ended up pleading guilty... 698 00:39:41,689 --> 00:39:43,389 To second degree murder. 699 00:39:43,391 --> 00:39:46,759 Which in the state of Michigan has a typical punishment of life in prison. 700 00:39:51,766 --> 00:39:54,700 I think that the work that the department did was great. 701 00:39:57,906 --> 00:40:00,973 Having to be faced with this, day after day after day, 702 00:40:00,975 --> 00:40:03,543 it's like a brass ring that you're trying to grab, 703 00:40:03,545 --> 00:40:04,944 but it's just elusive. 704 00:40:04,946 --> 00:40:08,448 The levels of frustration probably ran very high at times. 705 00:40:08,450 --> 00:40:13,586 Then, it's one tiny speck of blood that just turns everything around. 706 00:40:13,655 --> 00:40:16,756 Did it weigh on me? Every day it weighed on me. 707 00:40:16,758 --> 00:40:21,761 But everybody worked intimately together to get the end result 708 00:40:21,763 --> 00:40:24,964 which was bringing closure for the family, 709 00:40:24,966 --> 00:40:28,568 and giving Jerry a voice since he no longer was with us. 710 00:40:30,705 --> 00:40:33,906 I don't think that I'm ever going to forgive her for what she did. 711 00:40:35,877 --> 00:40:38,344 Because she destroyed me at such a young age. 712 00:40:38,346 --> 00:40:40,880 And it's not like I can just look at someone 713 00:40:40,982 --> 00:40:43,149 and talk to them, like they've been through what I have. 714 00:40:45,787 --> 00:40:49,155 I actually posted a status not that long ago 715 00:40:49,157 --> 00:40:51,858 because I'm not just a story. 716 00:40:51,860 --> 00:40:54,160 I'm a human being and I have feelings. 717 00:40:54,162 --> 00:40:55,761 And I got through this. 718 00:40:55,763 --> 00:40:59,465 That's more than I could ever be thankful for 719 00:40:59,467 --> 00:41:01,868 because I never thought I was going to be able to get through it. 720 00:41:05,173 --> 00:41:11,744 I hope that Sara is able to break the chain of her family's tragedies. 721 00:41:11,746 --> 00:41:14,447 What Sara did at such a young age 722 00:41:14,449 --> 00:41:18,084 was probably the bravest thing I've ever heard or seen anybody do. 723 00:41:18,152 --> 00:41:22,355 Like, my heart breaks for everything she went through. 724 00:41:22,357 --> 00:41:24,190 And I'm just so thankful for her. 725 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,593 I think of him often and I miss him. 726 00:41:30,064 --> 00:41:32,398 I think he'd be proud of what his children have done. 727 00:41:32,500 --> 00:41:34,667 Jerry would be very proud of all of his kids. 728 00:41:34,669 --> 00:41:37,069 This has just absolutely wrecked my family. 729 00:41:38,706 --> 00:41:40,273 My dad was just a nice person. 730 00:41:40,275 --> 00:41:42,341 Too nice, clearly. 731 00:41:42,343 --> 00:41:45,845 And just somebody that suffered from a lot of trauma himself, 732 00:41:45,847 --> 00:41:48,247 but no matter how bad my dad was doing, 733 00:41:48,249 --> 00:41:49,949 we always loved him. 734 00:41:49,951 --> 00:41:51,684 Um, he was our dad. 735 00:41:51,686 --> 00:41:57,056 It's just really hard knowing that someone else took that all away from us. 736 00:41:58,593 --> 00:42:01,093 [Kenda] Lori believed she destroyed the evidence. 737 00:42:01,095 --> 00:42:02,795 She did. A great deal of it 738 00:42:02,864 --> 00:42:04,363 Just not all of it. 739 00:42:04,365 --> 00:42:07,567 One drop of blood put her inside a steel box 740 00:42:07,569 --> 00:42:09,068 which is where she belonged.