1
00:00:06,832 --> 00:00:10,010
Up next,
she answers a knock at her door

2
00:00:10,053 --> 00:00:11,446
and pays with her life.

3
00:00:11,489 --> 00:00:13,622
There was a ton of blood.

4
00:00:13,665 --> 00:00:17,408
I was very, very upset
about the entire situation.

5
00:00:17,452 --> 00:00:20,890
No one knows why this
victim has been targeted for death.

6
00:00:20,933 --> 00:00:24,328
It didn't look like this
was a random act.

7
00:00:24,372 --> 00:00:26,200
The only solid evidence?

8
00:00:26,243 --> 00:00:27,940
A couple of shell casings.

9
00:00:27,984 --> 00:00:32,206
They recovered two fired
9 millimeter cartridge cases.

10
00:00:32,249 --> 00:00:34,643
Is this enough
to solve a murder?

11
00:00:34,686 --> 00:00:36,558
The answer comes years later,

12
00:00:36,601 --> 00:00:39,474
after a seemingly unrelated
road rage incident

13
00:00:39,517 --> 00:00:40,823
a hundred miles away.

14
00:00:40,866 --> 00:00:42,433
I was shocked.

15
00:00:42,477 --> 00:00:46,698
I didn't know that this type
of technology existed.

16
00:00:46,742 --> 00:00:48,657
ATF Agent Butler calls me
and tells me

17
00:00:48,700 --> 00:00:51,051
that they have a positive hit
on our cartridge.

18
00:00:51,094 --> 00:00:54,315
I couldn't believe it.
I was ecstatic.

19
00:01:14,770 --> 00:01:17,860
Close to the border
of the United States and Canada,

20
00:01:17,903 --> 00:01:20,689
the town of Hope, Idaho,
was the ideal place

21
00:01:20,732 --> 00:01:24,127
for Daryl and Shirley Ramey
to raise their family.

22
00:01:24,171 --> 00:01:27,478
The marriage, that ultimately
resulted in two children,

23
00:01:27,522 --> 00:01:30,351
two grandchildren, and two
great-grandchildren,

24
00:01:30,394 --> 00:01:34,790
was an old-school romance that
came about completely by chance.

25
00:01:34,833 --> 00:01:38,141
Oh, she was a good-looking gal. She...

26
00:01:38,185 --> 00:01:41,927
I was working up
at Bonners Ferry at the time,

27
00:01:41,971 --> 00:01:44,495
and a friend there was
working with me.

28
00:01:44,539 --> 00:01:48,238
He says, "Hey, I know where
we can go to a dance."

29
00:01:48,282 --> 00:01:53,374
And that's where I met my wife,
was out there.

30
00:01:53,417 --> 00:01:57,595
And I courted her for about nine
months before we got married.

31
00:01:59,815 --> 00:02:03,732
In this area, guns are
nearly as commonplace as cars.

32
00:02:03,775 --> 00:02:06,169
Most locals get familiar
with gun safety

33
00:02:06,213 --> 00:02:08,563
practically from birth,
and incidents

34
00:02:08,606 --> 00:02:11,870
of gun violence
are few and far between.

35
00:02:11,914 --> 00:02:14,264
It doesn't hurt that
the population density--

36
00:02:14,308 --> 00:02:16,745
about 25 people
per square mile--

37
00:02:16,788 --> 00:02:18,921
is among the lowest
in the country.

38
00:02:18,964 --> 00:02:25,710
Most of the patrol areas
that we cover are in dirt roads.

39
00:02:25,754 --> 00:02:27,451
Very rural.

40
00:02:27,495 --> 00:02:30,672
You get directions by going
towards the end of the road,

41
00:02:30,715 --> 00:02:33,892
and there's a big cedar tree
with a "Y,"

42
00:02:33,936 --> 00:02:37,592
and you may turn right and go
to down this road or that road.

43
00:02:37,635 --> 00:02:40,029
After happy
and successful careers,

44
00:02:40,072 --> 00:02:44,903
Daryl and Shirley settled into
a well-deserved retirement.

45
00:02:44,947 --> 00:02:49,560
On the afternoon of April 5,
2017, Daryl went into town

46
00:02:49,604 --> 00:02:52,998
to play cards with old friends
at the local senior center.

47
00:02:53,042 --> 00:02:57,220
I asked her what she wanted
to do for dinner that night,

48
00:02:57,264 --> 00:02:58,700
Being Friday night,

49
00:02:58,743 --> 00:03:01,006
a lot of times, we went out,
and she said,

50
00:03:01,050 --> 00:03:04,184
"Well, why don't you bring
home a bacon cheeseburger?"

51
00:03:04,227 --> 00:03:06,229
So after cards, I went over
to the restaurant

52
00:03:06,273 --> 00:03:10,494
and bought the bacon
cheeseburger and come home.

53
00:03:10,538 --> 00:03:12,670
Daryl got back about 5:00.

54
00:03:12,714 --> 00:03:14,281
As he walked up
to the house,

55
00:03:14,324 --> 00:03:17,022
he saw a sliding glass door
was wide open.

56
00:03:17,066 --> 00:03:18,241
He wondered why.

57
00:03:18,285 --> 00:03:19,982
It was cold outside.

58
00:03:20,025 --> 00:03:23,420
As he stepped into the house,
he got the answer.

59
00:03:23,464 --> 00:03:26,118
When I come home, she was
laying there on the floor.

60
00:03:26,162 --> 00:03:27,772
She was laying in a pool
of blood,

61
00:03:27,816 --> 00:03:31,211
and I just said, "Oh, my God.
Oh, my God."

62
00:03:56,627 --> 00:03:59,195
Police and paramedics
arrive to find a murder

63
00:03:59,239 --> 00:04:01,806
not often seen in rural Idaho.

64
00:04:01,850 --> 00:04:03,634
Shirley Ramey
had been shot twice

65
00:04:03,678 --> 00:04:06,420
at nearly point-blank range.

66
00:04:06,463 --> 00:04:08,378
There was no forced entry.

67
00:04:08,422 --> 00:04:10,032
At first glance,
it appeared nothing

68
00:04:10,075 --> 00:04:12,164
had been stolen
from the house.

69
00:04:12,208 --> 00:04:15,255
It was a murder with
no apparent motive.

70
00:04:15,298 --> 00:04:18,127
After all, who could
possibly have a reason

71
00:04:18,170 --> 00:04:21,173
to carry out
an execution-style hit

72
00:04:21,217 --> 00:04:24,046
on a 78-year-old
great-grandmother?

73
00:04:24,089 --> 00:04:25,656
It was very, very strange.

74
00:04:25,700 --> 00:04:27,658
Shirley was an elderly lady.

75
00:04:27,702 --> 00:04:29,747
She was well-liked
in the community.

76
00:04:29,791 --> 00:04:32,359
It didn't make
a whole lot of sense.

77
00:04:32,402 --> 00:04:34,883
We didn't have
any enemies, especially Shirley.

78
00:04:34,926 --> 00:04:37,581
She didn't have anybody
that she didn't like, you know,

79
00:04:37,625 --> 00:04:39,496
and it's the same way with me.

80
00:04:39,540 --> 00:04:43,457
I don't have any enemies, and I
couldn't figure out who it was.

81
00:04:43,500 --> 00:04:45,676
Neither could law enforcement.

82
00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:47,983
This murder had
no apparent motive,

83
00:04:48,026 --> 00:04:51,508
no eyewitnesses,
and very little evidence.

84
00:05:01,431 --> 00:05:04,347
As the shock
of Shirley Ramey's murder

85
00:05:04,391 --> 00:05:07,045
rippled across her
rural Idaho community,

86
00:05:07,089 --> 00:05:10,310
homicide investigators
were faced with a crime scene

87
00:05:10,353 --> 00:05:13,182
nearly devoid
of useful information.

88
00:05:13,225 --> 00:05:17,360
The crime scene appeared
to be very neat, orderly.

89
00:05:17,404 --> 00:05:19,057
It did not have the appearance

90
00:05:19,101 --> 00:05:21,190
that there had been
a rummaging through,

91
00:05:21,233 --> 00:05:24,585
as you oftentimes would see
in a home invasion,

92
00:05:24,628 --> 00:05:26,891
a burglary, a robbery.

93
00:05:26,935 --> 00:05:29,372
There was nothing
that was astray.

94
00:05:29,416 --> 00:05:31,809
The only thing
apparently missing from the house

95
00:05:31,853 --> 00:05:35,291
was an old hunting rifle,
a .308 caliber.

96
00:05:35,335 --> 00:05:38,773
And this definitely was not
the murder weapon.

97
00:05:38,816 --> 00:05:40,731
Analysts knew this because

98
00:05:40,775 --> 00:05:43,821
about the only solid information
at the scene

99
00:05:43,865 --> 00:05:47,999
were two shell casings found
just feet from Shirley's body.

100
00:05:48,043 --> 00:05:51,089
Those shell casings
were both 9mm,

101
00:05:51,133 --> 00:05:54,310
semi-auto shell casings
with an "RP" stamped on them,

102
00:05:54,354 --> 00:05:55,833
Remington Peters.

103
00:05:55,877 --> 00:05:57,574
They had primer strikes

104
00:05:57,618 --> 00:05:59,968
that we recognized
consistent with Glock.

105
00:06:00,011 --> 00:06:01,752
Most guns use
a round firing pin.

106
00:06:01,796 --> 00:06:06,104
A Glock uses more of
a triangular-shaped firing pin.

107
00:06:06,148 --> 00:06:09,281
As for the killer
being someone Shirley knew,

108
00:06:09,325 --> 00:06:12,459
given the lack of forced entry
and the absence of a struggle,

109
00:06:12,502 --> 00:06:16,114
that seemed possible,
even likely.

110
00:06:16,158 --> 00:06:19,117
But her husband, Daryl,
with a solid alibi,

111
00:06:19,161 --> 00:06:22,425
was immediately written off
as a potential suspect.

112
00:06:22,469 --> 00:06:25,123
In fact, the Rameys
were well-known

113
00:06:25,167 --> 00:06:28,823
to local law enforcement
for all of the right reasons

114
00:06:28,866 --> 00:06:30,302
and none of the wrong ones.

115
00:06:30,346 --> 00:06:33,436
I knew Shirley and Daryl personally,

116
00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:38,963
as we attended community events
in Hope and East Hope.

117
00:06:39,007 --> 00:06:41,096
Another clue
leading investigators

118
00:06:41,139 --> 00:06:43,925
to believe Shirley
might have known her killer

119
00:06:43,968 --> 00:06:46,623
was the remote location
of her house.

120
00:06:46,667 --> 00:06:48,886
The Rameys lived on
Trestle Creek Road.

121
00:06:48,930 --> 00:06:51,802
It's only accessible for part
of the year by automobile.

122
00:06:51,846 --> 00:06:54,283
A lot of the winter
and into the spring,

123
00:06:54,326 --> 00:06:55,806
it is snowmobile only.

124
00:06:55,850 --> 00:06:59,462
So there are very few residences
up that road.

125
00:06:59,506 --> 00:07:01,725
There are not a lot
of people live up there.

126
00:07:01,769 --> 00:07:03,510
We live right in a canyon.

127
00:07:03,553 --> 00:07:07,775
Not a lot of property
to develop in there.

128
00:07:07,818 --> 00:07:10,517
The area saw
so little human traffic

129
00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,519
that some fresh shoe prints
at the scene

130
00:07:12,562 --> 00:07:14,346
became crucial evidence.

131
00:07:14,390 --> 00:07:17,219
We have more than four seasons
here in North Idaho,

132
00:07:17,262 --> 00:07:19,308
and one of them is mud season.

133
00:07:19,351 --> 00:07:21,745
And so, we did identify footprints.

134
00:07:21,789 --> 00:07:23,921
It looked like
it was a set of tennis shoes,

135
00:07:23,965 --> 00:07:27,838
but the ground was too moist

136
00:07:27,882 --> 00:07:30,493
and unable for us
to do any castings.

137
00:07:30,537 --> 00:07:32,669
The prints
led to a camping trailer

138
00:07:32,713 --> 00:07:35,193
about a half-mile
from the Ramey's house.

139
00:07:35,237 --> 00:07:40,503
There was a vagrant living in
a small trailer house below me.

140
00:07:40,547 --> 00:07:43,506
He was living in
kind of a rudimentary trailer

141
00:07:43,550 --> 00:07:46,422
without, you know, electricity
and plumbing

142
00:07:46,466 --> 00:07:48,511
and creature comforts.

143
00:07:48,555 --> 00:07:53,211
He's not unusual in the sense
that people here in North Idaho

144
00:07:53,255 --> 00:07:56,780
can tend to be
living off the grid.

145
00:07:56,824 --> 00:07:59,522
They live in a manner
that perhaps other people

146
00:07:59,566 --> 00:08:03,874
in other parts of the country
don't really understand.

147
00:08:03,918 --> 00:08:07,138
This person-- Daryl Ramey
said he'd never met him--

148
00:08:07,182 --> 00:08:10,359
was identified
as 41 year-old Nathan Utt.

149
00:08:10,402 --> 00:08:14,494
Nathan Utt had a lot
of brush-ins with the law.

150
00:08:14,537 --> 00:08:19,629
He suffered from schizophrenia,
and he had a record of stalking,

151
00:08:19,673 --> 00:08:21,544
of sort of harassing people.

152
00:08:21,588 --> 00:08:24,025
Nathan Utt,
who was hearing-impaired,

153
00:08:24,068 --> 00:08:25,766
wasn't at his trailer.

154
00:08:25,809 --> 00:08:28,290
But someone had been there recently.

155
00:08:28,333 --> 00:08:31,772
And that someone had
apparently fired a gun.

156
00:08:31,815 --> 00:08:34,818
We noticed that
there were bullet holes

157
00:08:34,862 --> 00:08:39,170
that were caused from a gun
shooting from the outside in.

158
00:08:39,214 --> 00:08:41,825
And all of the holes
were identified

159
00:08:41,869 --> 00:08:45,655
from coming and being shot
from the roadway.

160
00:08:45,699 --> 00:08:49,267
Trajectory analysis
and standard ballistic tests

161
00:08:49,311 --> 00:08:51,835
showed these bullet holes
were fresh

162
00:08:51,879 --> 00:08:54,795
from right around the time
Shirley Ramey was shot.

163
00:08:54,838 --> 00:08:56,927
We found two more shell casings

164
00:08:56,971 --> 00:09:00,583
that matched the 9mm
"RP" head stamp

165
00:09:00,627 --> 00:09:02,367
alongside the road,

166
00:09:02,411 --> 00:09:03,847
consistent with a location

167
00:09:03,891 --> 00:09:06,197
that could have caused
the two bullet holes

168
00:09:06,241 --> 00:09:07,938
in Nathan Utt's trailer.

169
00:09:07,982 --> 00:09:09,766
So where was Nathan Utt?

170
00:09:09,810 --> 00:09:11,551
And was he a killer?

171
00:09:11,594 --> 00:09:14,945
Or possibly a victim himself?

172
00:09:25,913 --> 00:09:29,699
When Nathan Utt
emerged as a potential suspect

173
00:09:29,743 --> 00:09:31,614
in the murder of Shirley Ramey,

174
00:09:31,658 --> 00:09:34,008
detectives learned he had
no prior contact

175
00:09:34,051 --> 00:09:35,705
with the Ramey family.

176
00:09:35,749 --> 00:09:39,187
And although he didn't own
a gun, he had access to one.

177
00:09:39,230 --> 00:09:41,798
We had talked to
some of his friends,

178
00:09:41,842 --> 00:09:44,496
and they had said
that he was present

179
00:09:44,540 --> 00:09:48,239
when some of his friends
had come over to his trailer

180
00:09:48,283 --> 00:09:50,546
and were shooting a 9mm.

181
00:09:50,590 --> 00:09:52,983
Now detectives got a surprise.

182
00:09:53,027 --> 00:09:55,507
They were contacted by
Nathan Utt's brother,

183
00:09:55,551 --> 00:09:57,727
who told them
a shocking story.

184
00:09:57,771 --> 00:10:00,643
Nathan was talking
about killing people,

185
00:10:00,687 --> 00:10:03,211
or in an animated gesturing.

186
00:10:03,254 --> 00:10:05,430
Again, because Nathan is deaf,

187
00:10:05,474 --> 00:10:08,085
communication is done through,
largely, a combination

188
00:10:08,129 --> 00:10:10,131
of sign language and verbiage.

189
00:10:10,174 --> 00:10:13,874
But Nathan had been in a bar
talking about killing two people

190
00:10:13,917 --> 00:10:16,006
or shooting several people.

191
00:10:16,050 --> 00:10:19,575
This was not some rumor
that got blown out of proportion.

192
00:10:19,619 --> 00:10:22,404
Nathan Utt's threatening
conversation with his brother

193
00:10:22,447 --> 00:10:23,927
was caught on camera.

194
00:10:23,971 --> 00:10:26,234
There was a tape
from the restaurant.

195
00:10:26,277 --> 00:10:29,411
The investigators were actually
able to secure that tape.

196
00:10:29,454 --> 00:10:32,240
And from the tape,
it was clear Nathan Utt

197
00:10:32,283 --> 00:10:35,678
was making wild arm gestures.

198
00:10:35,722 --> 00:10:38,507
It was clear that
his brother's statement

199
00:10:38,550 --> 00:10:41,466
was verified by the tape.

200
00:10:41,510 --> 00:10:44,774
He made the motion
of "bang, bang"

201
00:10:44,818 --> 00:10:47,081
during that conversation.

202
00:10:47,124 --> 00:10:52,042
And we had some real concerns
that may implicate him

203
00:10:52,086 --> 00:10:54,828
of following through
with those threats

204
00:10:54,871 --> 00:10:57,178
and maybe being responsible

205
00:10:57,221 --> 00:11:00,268
for shooting and killing
Shirley Ramey.

206
00:11:00,311 --> 00:11:03,140
Investigators in Bonner County
are looking for this man,

207
00:11:03,184 --> 00:11:05,316
41-year-old Nathan Lane Utt.

208
00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:06,927
He's considered to be armed
and dangerous

209
00:11:06,970 --> 00:11:10,321
and wanted for murder of
an elderly woman in Sandpoint.

210
00:11:10,365 --> 00:11:12,541
Media all over
the Pacific Northwest

211
00:11:12,584 --> 00:11:15,196
was given Nathan Utt's
description.

212
00:11:15,239 --> 00:11:18,242
He was soon located
on a commuter train.

213
00:11:18,286 --> 00:11:21,115
The U.S. Marshals
were able to find Mr. Utt

214
00:11:21,158 --> 00:11:22,986
and ultimately arrest him

215
00:11:23,030 --> 00:11:25,380
as he was returning to Idaho

216
00:11:25,423 --> 00:11:27,817
from Portland, Oregon,
on Amtrak.

217
00:11:27,861 --> 00:11:30,951
Nathan Utt told
investigators he was returning home

218
00:11:30,994 --> 00:11:32,430
after checking himself in

219
00:11:32,474 --> 00:11:35,085
to a mental-health facility
in Oregon.

220
00:11:35,129 --> 00:11:38,567
He said he had nothing to do
with Shirley Ramey's murder

221
00:11:38,610 --> 00:11:40,743
and could prove it.

222
00:11:40,787 --> 00:11:44,442
Numerous people had seen him
during the time she was shot.

223
00:11:44,486 --> 00:11:48,098
His threat to kill someone
was just idle talk.

224
00:11:48,142 --> 00:11:53,625
I was extremely surprised
that Mr. Utt had a valid alibi.

225
00:11:53,669 --> 00:11:57,151
I certainly believed that he
had committed this homicide.

226
00:11:57,194 --> 00:12:04,071
And within an hour of him giving
that interview to investigators,

227
00:12:04,114 --> 00:12:07,117
I was able to get him
out of jail.

228
00:12:07,161 --> 00:12:10,164
Soon, the story of
this bizarre unsolved murder

229
00:12:10,207 --> 00:12:13,689
came to the attention
of ATF Agent James Butler,

230
00:12:13,733 --> 00:12:16,474
who thought the ATF could help.

231
00:12:16,518 --> 00:12:20,827
ATF is not in the business
of investigating homicides,

232
00:12:20,870 --> 00:12:24,308
but what we can do
is provide other assistance

233
00:12:24,352 --> 00:12:27,964
to law enforcement agencies
to assist with their cases.

234
00:12:28,008 --> 00:12:29,792
In 2020,

235
00:12:29,836 --> 00:12:33,317
nearly 8 in 10 of the murders
committed in America

236
00:12:33,361 --> 00:12:35,493
involved a firearm.

237
00:12:35,537 --> 00:12:38,801
All those guns
and the bullets used in them

238
00:12:38,845 --> 00:12:40,934
are a rich source of evidence.

239
00:12:40,977 --> 00:12:44,546
The ATF's National Integrated
Ballistic Information Network,

240
00:12:44,589 --> 00:12:49,681
or NIBIN, uses a machine
called BrassTrax

241
00:12:49,725 --> 00:12:51,727
to take three-dimensional scans

242
00:12:51,771 --> 00:12:54,295
of the millions
of brass cartridge casings

243
00:12:54,338 --> 00:12:56,340
recovered from crime scenes

244
00:12:56,384 --> 00:13:00,344
or from confiscated weapons
that were later test-fired.

245
00:13:00,388 --> 00:13:03,739
Those images allow investigators
to compare markings

246
00:13:03,783 --> 00:13:06,611
on vast numbers
of cartridge cases

247
00:13:06,655 --> 00:13:09,005
with extraordinary speed.

248
00:13:09,049 --> 00:13:11,529
Within 24 to 48 hours
of a shooting scene,

249
00:13:11,573 --> 00:13:13,836
they have the ability to

250
00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,447
recover cartridge cases
from a shooting scene

251
00:13:16,491 --> 00:13:18,885
and identify whether the firearm

252
00:13:18,928 --> 00:13:22,105
that fired those recently
recovered cartridge cases

253
00:13:22,149 --> 00:13:24,716
has left any other
cartridge cases

254
00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:26,806
that were acquired into NIBIN.

255
00:13:26,849 --> 00:13:30,070
The casings from the
murder of Shirley Ramey were entered.

256
00:13:30,113 --> 00:13:32,507
To the consternation
of investigators,

257
00:13:32,550 --> 00:13:34,291
there were no matches.

258
00:13:34,335 --> 00:13:36,554
But that didn't mean
the search was over.

259
00:13:36,598 --> 00:13:38,774
In fact, in a roundabout way,

260
00:13:38,818 --> 00:13:41,864
this search uncovered
the surprise connection

261
00:13:41,908 --> 00:13:44,388
that ultimately solved
the mystery

262
00:13:44,432 --> 00:13:46,738
of who shot Shirley Ramey.

263
00:13:46,782 --> 00:13:48,218
I was ecstatic.

264
00:13:48,262 --> 00:13:50,568
This is the first real lead
that we've had

265
00:13:50,612 --> 00:13:52,788
during the entire case,

266
00:13:52,832 --> 00:13:56,096
and it just got better
from there.

267
00:14:07,847 --> 00:14:10,588
To find out
who killed Shirley Ramey,

268
00:14:10,632 --> 00:14:12,764
detectives wanted to locate
the murder weapon,

269
00:14:12,808 --> 00:14:15,158
a Glock 9mm handgun.

270
00:14:15,202 --> 00:14:17,073
But all they had
were shell casings

271
00:14:17,117 --> 00:14:18,901
found near Shirley's body.

272
00:14:18,945 --> 00:14:23,079
The ATF's NIBIN system, which
tracks shell casings recovered

273
00:14:23,123 --> 00:14:26,082
from crime scenes,
turned up no matches.

274
00:14:26,126 --> 00:14:29,433
So ATF Agent James Butler
took a chance.

275
00:14:29,477 --> 00:14:32,784
He reached out to regional law
enforcement with a question--

276
00:14:32,828 --> 00:14:36,788
Did anyone have a Glock 9mm
used in a crime

277
00:14:36,832 --> 00:14:39,139
that had not yet
been test-fired?

278
00:14:39,182 --> 00:14:41,489
I would continually ask that

279
00:14:41,532 --> 00:14:44,100
if you have a 9mm
in your custody,

280
00:14:44,144 --> 00:14:47,538
can we test-fire that so that
we can place that into NIBIN?

281
00:14:47,582 --> 00:14:49,758
I didn't get any more specific
than that.

282
00:14:49,801 --> 00:14:53,240
And that went on
for numerous months.

283
00:14:53,283 --> 00:14:56,330
It turned out that
police in Lincoln County, Montana,

284
00:14:56,373 --> 00:14:59,550
about 100 miles from
Shirley Ramey's unsolved murder

285
00:14:59,594 --> 00:15:00,900
in Idaho,

286
00:15:00,943 --> 00:15:04,425
had a Glock 9mm
in their evidence vault.

287
00:15:04,468 --> 00:15:06,949
And now investigators in Idaho

288
00:15:06,993 --> 00:15:09,473
got an incredible bit
of information

289
00:15:09,517 --> 00:15:13,825
about that gun
and about their unsolved murder.

290
00:15:13,869 --> 00:15:16,872
That gun had been picked up

291
00:15:16,916 --> 00:15:19,527
several hours before
we even knew we had a homicide.

292
00:15:19,570 --> 00:15:23,270
This Glock 9mm
belonged to a 57-year-old woman

293
00:15:23,313 --> 00:15:26,186
named Judith Carpenter.

294
00:15:26,229 --> 00:15:28,492
She used that gun
to threaten a couple

295
00:15:28,536 --> 00:15:32,279
during a road-rage incident
in the town of Libby, Montana.

296
00:15:32,322 --> 00:15:35,151
The authorities were called,
and the Libby Police Department

297
00:15:35,195 --> 00:15:39,329
arrested Judy Carpenter
for aggravated assault.

298
00:15:39,373 --> 00:15:43,159
This happened just
hours after Shirley Ramey's murder.

299
00:15:43,203 --> 00:15:45,640
On the afternoon
of this road-rage incident,

300
00:15:45,683 --> 00:15:48,295
responding officer
Sergeant Bo Pitman

301
00:15:48,338 --> 00:15:51,994
found more than a Glock 9mm
on Judith Carpenter.

302
00:15:52,038 --> 00:15:56,607
She also had a .308-caliber
hunting rifle in her car.

303
00:15:56,651 --> 00:15:58,131
Pitman wanted to know,

304
00:15:58,174 --> 00:16:01,351
why was this woman
packing so much firepower?

305
00:16:01,395 --> 00:16:06,052
She told me that while she was
traveling down Highway 200,

306
00:16:06,095 --> 00:16:09,185
she pulled off to urinate.

307
00:16:09,229 --> 00:16:10,970
And when she'd pulled off
the road,

308
00:16:11,013 --> 00:16:13,755
she found the rifle
on the side of the road.

309
00:16:13,798 --> 00:16:15,975
This didn't make a lot of sense.

310
00:16:16,018 --> 00:16:18,760
Judith Carpenter was brought in
for questioning.

311
00:16:18,803 --> 00:16:23,330
Judith Carpenter
was highly paranoid.

312
00:16:23,373 --> 00:16:27,769
You could also mix in
some confusion

313
00:16:27,812 --> 00:16:30,946
when she was trying
to explain her whereabouts

314
00:16:30,990 --> 00:16:33,035
over the last couple of days.

315
00:16:33,079 --> 00:16:37,692
I thought she was deliberately
being dishonest with me.

316
00:16:37,735 --> 00:16:39,737
In a bizarre turn of events,

317
00:16:39,781 --> 00:16:43,350
this interrogation about Judith
Carpenter's road-rage incident

318
00:16:43,393 --> 00:16:47,267
happened on the very afternoon
of Shirley Ramey's murder.

319
00:16:47,310 --> 00:16:49,834
But detectives on Shirley's case

320
00:16:49,878 --> 00:16:53,186
didn't see this tape
until two years later.

321
00:17:03,109 --> 00:17:05,241
Huh?

322
00:17:26,349 --> 00:17:28,134
Following my interview,
I concluded

323
00:17:28,177 --> 00:17:31,528
that she did commit the crime
of assault with a weapon,

324
00:17:31,572 --> 00:17:34,488
but she also had
mental health issues.

325
00:17:34,531 --> 00:17:37,926
So I had her booked
into our jail.

326
00:17:37,969 --> 00:17:40,537
And I also requested
a mental-health evaluation

327
00:17:40,581 --> 00:17:42,496
to be conducted.

328
00:17:45,238 --> 00:17:47,805
Judith Carpenter spent
several court-appointed weeks

329
00:17:47,849 --> 00:17:50,025
being treated
for mental health issues

330
00:17:50,069 --> 00:17:51,940
and was ultimately released.

331
00:17:51,983 --> 00:17:55,378
But her Glock 9mm
remained in custody.

332
00:17:55,422 --> 00:17:58,425
At the time, there was no reason
for police in Montana

333
00:17:58,468 --> 00:18:01,732
to make a connection between
Judith's road-rage incident

334
00:18:01,776 --> 00:18:03,647
and a murder in Idaho.

335
00:18:03,691 --> 00:18:07,216
But now, a possible connection
had been made.

336
00:18:07,260 --> 00:18:09,914
Could Judith Carpenter
be a killer?

337
00:18:09,958 --> 00:18:12,482
Could the gun she was carrying
tell the story?

338
00:18:12,526 --> 00:18:15,572
That would turn out to be
the linchpin of this case.

339
00:18:15,616 --> 00:18:19,098
The 9mm Glock was test-fired
and put into NIBIN,

340
00:18:19,141 --> 00:18:21,622
and, lo and behold,
it came back as the gun

341
00:18:21,665 --> 00:18:24,146
that was utilized
in the Shirley Ramey case.

342
00:18:24,190 --> 00:18:25,582
I was so excited.

343
00:18:25,626 --> 00:18:27,845
It was a total match to the gun

344
00:18:27,889 --> 00:18:30,152
that was used
in the Ramey homicide.

345
00:18:32,894 --> 00:18:34,852
How all this ended up in murder

346
00:18:34,896 --> 00:18:38,160
is a story
that defies explanation.

347
00:18:38,204 --> 00:18:41,250
Investigators say it appears
that Judith Carpenter,

348
00:18:41,294 --> 00:18:43,948
in the midst of
a full-blown mental crisis,

349
00:18:43,992 --> 00:18:46,037
had been driving
hundreds of miles

350
00:18:46,081 --> 00:18:48,562
and simply had to go
to the bathroom.

351
00:18:48,605 --> 00:18:51,217
She knocked on the door
of Shirley Ramey's house,

352
00:18:51,260 --> 00:18:54,916
which just happened to be
the first one she came upon.

353
00:18:54,959 --> 00:18:58,049
Shirley, faced with
a visibly unwell stranger,

354
00:18:58,093 --> 00:19:00,008
who might have had
a gun in her hand,

355
00:19:00,051 --> 00:19:02,532
refused to let
Judith Carpenter in.

356
00:19:02,576 --> 00:19:06,232
Judith responded by
fatally shooting Shirley.

357
00:19:06,275 --> 00:19:08,016
While going through the house,

358
00:19:08,059 --> 00:19:11,889
Judith saw the Rameys'
...308-caliber rifle and stole it.

359
00:19:11,933 --> 00:19:15,937
As she was driving away,
for reasons no one can explain,

360
00:19:15,980 --> 00:19:19,419
she fired two shots
into Nathan Utt's trailer.

361
00:19:19,462 --> 00:19:22,335
Four hours later,
she was arrested in Montana

362
00:19:22,378 --> 00:19:26,208
for using her Glock 9mm
in a road-rage incident

363
00:19:26,252 --> 00:19:30,604
and was eventually exposed
as Shirley Ramey's killer.

364
00:19:30,647 --> 00:19:32,562
To this day, Judith Carpenter

365
00:19:32,606 --> 00:19:34,695
claims no memory
of what happened.

366
00:19:34,738 --> 00:19:38,916
In 2021, she pleaded guilty
to second-degree murder

367
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,529
and got 15 years to life
in prison.

368
00:19:42,572 --> 00:19:44,052
I was at the sentencing.

369
00:19:44,095 --> 00:19:46,750
I told her that...

370
00:19:48,622 --> 00:19:52,626
...I didn't really have
any ill feelings toward her

371
00:19:52,669 --> 00:19:55,759
and I hope that, you know,
the Lord will come

372
00:19:55,803 --> 00:19:58,240
and take care of her body
and her mind.

373
00:19:59,894 --> 00:20:03,941
This was--
I hope it does happen someday.

374
00:20:03,985 --> 00:20:06,901
And I hope
to take care of me, too.

375
00:20:06,944 --> 00:20:09,382
The Lord has been good to me.

376
00:20:12,385 --> 00:20:15,605
Investigators freely admit that
the killer in this case

377
00:20:15,649 --> 00:20:18,086
almost walked free.

378
00:20:18,129 --> 00:20:21,829
But new forensic technology
and an old-fashioned commitment

379
00:20:21,872 --> 00:20:24,353
to leaving no stone unturned

380
00:20:24,397 --> 00:20:26,486
combined to tell
the bizarre story

381
00:20:26,529 --> 00:20:28,488
of what happened
to Shirley Ramey

382
00:20:28,531 --> 00:20:30,881
that April afternoon.

383
00:20:30,925 --> 00:20:34,537
To me, this case
is an excellent example

384
00:20:34,581 --> 00:20:38,976
of what can happen when
multiple agencies come together,

385
00:20:39,020 --> 00:20:42,719
work together, and each fulfill
their duties flawlessly.

386
00:20:42,763 --> 00:20:44,678
We were able to take
those two shell casings,

387
00:20:44,721 --> 00:20:48,334
and we were able to link them to
the murderer of Shirley Ramey.

388
00:20:48,377 --> 00:20:51,206
The forensic evidence
in this case was essential.

389
00:20:51,250 --> 00:20:55,079
Without the forensic evidence,
without the gun being test-fired

390
00:20:55,123 --> 00:20:58,039
and put in the NIBIN system
in Montana,

391
00:20:58,082 --> 00:21:00,215
this case would not be solved today.