1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:03,375 - Midway is the punk rock, you know. 2 00:00:03,375 --> 00:00:05,625 They're like The Ramones or The Sex Pistols 3 00:00:05,625 --> 00:00:07,750 of the video game industry, 4 00:00:07,750 --> 00:00:09,041 the guys who are like, 5 00:00:09,041 --> 00:00:10,458 "Oh, this is how you think we should do it? 6 00:00:10,458 --> 00:00:12,875 "These are the rules that you think we should obey? 7 00:00:12,875 --> 00:00:14,250 "Well, what if we go the other way?" 8 00:00:14,250 --> 00:00:19,250 [music] [character screaming] 9 00:00:19,500 --> 00:00:21,208 - What was the culture of Midway in the '90s? 10 00:00:21,208 --> 00:00:23,375 And my take on it was aggressive. 11 00:00:27,500 --> 00:00:31,166 - It's being, pushing the boundaries of maybe good taste. 12 00:00:32,875 --> 00:00:34,291 - [Character] I love it. 13 00:00:34,291 --> 00:00:36,916 [car screeching] 14 00:00:39,541 --> 00:00:41,333 - I don't think that there a single gamer that exists 15 00:00:41,333 --> 00:00:43,125 that never played a Midway game. 16 00:00:47,333 --> 00:00:48,583 - They were the only company, in a lot of ways, 17 00:00:48,583 --> 00:00:50,333 that could make fantastic sports games 18 00:00:50,333 --> 00:00:51,541 that anyone could pick up and play. 19 00:00:51,541 --> 00:00:54,250 [character yelling] 20 00:01:01,916 --> 00:01:04,250 - It looked so real to me, that I was like, 21 00:01:04,250 --> 00:01:05,666 Boop, you just killed me. 22 00:01:05,666 --> 00:01:08,666 [character yelling] 23 00:01:13,166 --> 00:01:15,916 - I remember thinking to myself, wow, I'm working with gods. 24 00:01:23,750 --> 00:01:26,291 - We made great games. 25 00:01:26,291 --> 00:01:29,000 And at one point, we led the world. 26 00:01:32,375 --> 00:01:35,750 [gentle music] 27 00:01:44,583 --> 00:01:47,291 - I call it like the Big Bang of the video game universe. 28 00:01:47,291 --> 00:01:50,458 I mean, we want from blank screens 29 00:01:50,458 --> 00:01:53,375 to very rudimentary games like Pong, 30 00:01:53,375 --> 00:01:55,833 to all of the sudden, we've got Space Invaders, 31 00:01:55,833 --> 00:01:58,291 Pac-Man, Donkey Kong. 32 00:01:58,291 --> 00:02:00,083 You know, we came out with Defender. 33 00:02:01,708 --> 00:02:03,500 - [Announcer] Within months of appearing on the market 34 00:02:03,500 --> 00:02:08,250 in 1981, his game Defender shot to the top and stayed there. 35 00:02:08,250 --> 00:02:10,333 For Williams, the company that owned it, 36 00:02:10,333 --> 00:02:13,416 his idea was worth $100 million. 37 00:02:13,416 --> 00:02:16,125 - Well, it's sort of the, it's the ultimate fantasy 38 00:02:16,125 --> 00:02:20,875 where you are the only force left between evil and good. 39 00:02:22,083 --> 00:02:23,791 - You'd go into a place, 40 00:02:23,791 --> 00:02:25,291 I mean, there'd be eight Defenders. 41 00:02:25,291 --> 00:02:26,916 People would be standing in line, you know, 42 00:02:26,916 --> 00:02:28,250 three or four, five deep. 43 00:02:29,583 --> 00:02:30,500 It was a golden era. 44 00:02:35,708 --> 00:02:38,041 But then we got to '84. 45 00:02:38,041 --> 00:02:41,250 All this great stuff got kind of buried 46 00:02:41,250 --> 00:02:45,208 under like this stinking pile of shitty clones, 47 00:02:45,208 --> 00:02:48,375 and you know, six-week Atari 2600 ports. 48 00:02:50,041 --> 00:02:51,666 - Anything was selling at the time, 49 00:02:51,666 --> 00:02:53,750 as far as the home market was concerned. 50 00:02:53,750 --> 00:02:56,416 And people started just shoving garbage out the door. 51 00:02:56,416 --> 00:02:58,291 And at some point in time, 52 00:02:58,291 --> 00:03:00,208 the customer got fed up with the thing. 53 00:03:01,708 --> 00:03:05,333 - This year's hit is the next year's firewood. 54 00:03:05,333 --> 00:03:07,041 - It's that tough, this business? 55 00:03:07,041 --> 00:03:08,750 - It is, I mean three years from now, 56 00:03:08,750 --> 00:03:10,541 you'll ask somebody what Defender was, 57 00:03:10,541 --> 00:03:13,375 and they'll go, hmm, I don't know. 58 00:03:13,375 --> 00:03:17,000 - The consumer got disenchanted with what was going on 59 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:18,625 with, I think, the consumer product. 60 00:03:18,625 --> 00:03:21,250 It affected how things were going on in the arcades 61 00:03:21,250 --> 00:03:23,500 and how the game's earnings went down. 62 00:03:23,500 --> 00:03:24,541 And we did backtrack. 63 00:03:27,250 --> 00:03:29,291 - The whole video game crash, we just kind of like, 64 00:03:29,291 --> 00:03:31,541 wow, man, this is like game over. 65 00:03:31,541 --> 00:03:34,250 And went back to school for a couple years in California. 66 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,875 But I just couldn't get the video game thing out of my head. 67 00:03:39,875 --> 00:03:42,958 So it was like, yeah, man, we gotta do a new game, 68 00:03:42,958 --> 00:03:44,375 get the band back together. 69 00:03:44,375 --> 00:03:49,083 So back to working at what was known as Williams. 70 00:03:50,708 --> 00:03:54,000 I just remember him, before he started doing anything, 71 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,583 coming to New York when I was still in New York, 72 00:03:57,583 --> 00:04:01,208 talking about the idea of doing another video game. 73 00:04:01,208 --> 00:04:04,916 - Eugene came in and wasn't really prepared. 74 00:04:04,916 --> 00:04:07,375 But he knew in his mind what he wanted to do. 75 00:04:07,375 --> 00:04:11,041 And he wrote down on a big piece of paper, N-A-R-C. 76 00:04:11,041 --> 00:04:13,250 He held up the piece of paper, and it says NARC. 77 00:04:13,250 --> 00:04:15,041 And they said, "What's NARC"? 78 00:04:15,041 --> 00:04:18,791 - Guy, you know, protecting the world from this scourge 79 00:04:18,791 --> 00:04:21,958 of drugs and pushers and drug dealers. 80 00:04:21,958 --> 00:04:24,291 I felt like video games was always 81 00:04:24,291 --> 00:04:25,916 in some kind of fantasy world, you know. 82 00:04:25,916 --> 00:04:28,583 It was always like, oh, we're men in tights. 83 00:04:28,583 --> 00:04:30,625 We're running around with swords 84 00:04:30,625 --> 00:04:33,583 and casting spells on people, and spears, and stuff. 85 00:04:33,583 --> 00:04:37,500 And like, why can't a video game be about something real? 86 00:04:37,500 --> 00:04:40,708 We wanted to make an impression to the world 87 00:04:40,708 --> 00:04:42,000 that Williams was back. 88 00:04:45,708 --> 00:04:47,500 - My job was in field service. 89 00:04:47,500 --> 00:04:49,291 Like I answered the 800 number. 90 00:04:49,291 --> 00:04:52,750 And I would badger the programmers at ni 91 00:04:52,750 --> 00:04:54,416 to understand what they did. 92 00:04:54,416 --> 00:04:55,541 So then I would go to college 93 00:04:55,541 --> 00:04:57,583 and I would try to find classes 94 00:04:57,583 --> 00:05:01,166 that somehow matched what these guys knew 95 00:05:01,166 --> 00:05:03,250 because I wanted to know what that was. 96 00:05:03,250 --> 00:05:05,250 You know, my goal was to program a game. 97 00:05:05,250 --> 00:05:07,250 And I just, there's no way you can learn 98 00:05:07,250 --> 00:05:08,583 You just have to do it on your own. 99 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:10,875 - You think about the casualness of this era, 100 00:05:10,875 --> 00:05:12,583 you know, you're kind of like putting together a team 101 00:05:12,583 --> 00:05:17,041 and like man, I need a programmer for this game. 102 00:05:17,041 --> 00:05:19,208 And then, you talk to a couple people, 103 00:05:19,208 --> 00:05:22,791 and here's some kid, you know, just got out of college. 104 00:05:22,791 --> 00:05:24,958 Actually, I think he's still trying to finish 105 00:05:24,958 --> 00:05:26,875 the last couple of courses [laughs] 106 00:05:26,875 --> 00:05:28,625 - I'm gonna be, this is, 107 00:05:28,625 --> 00:05:30,791 I did visualize that as the opportunity, 108 00:05:30,791 --> 00:05:33,000 the video game opportunity of a lifetime for me. 109 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,500 I mean, if Eugene's starting video 110 00:05:35,500 --> 00:05:37,333 and I'm not on the ground floor, 111 00:05:37,333 --> 00:05:40,583 I mean, if I wait six months to go do summer school 112 00:05:40,583 --> 00:05:42,083 or whatever, I'm gonna miss something. 113 00:05:42,083 --> 00:05:44,958 - Jack Haeger was really the lead artist 114 00:05:44,958 --> 00:05:47,958 and then kind of the art director. 115 00:05:47,958 --> 00:05:49,750 - Jack has a great history where he went on to be 116 00:05:49,750 --> 00:05:51,791 one of the founders of the Amiga. 117 00:05:51,791 --> 00:05:52,791 - What more can you say? 118 00:05:52,791 --> 00:05:55,583 [audience laughing] 119 00:05:55,583 --> 00:06:00,083 - When we started, I guess there wasn't a clear sense 120 00:06:00,083 --> 00:06:01,916 of what we were going to do. 121 00:06:01,916 --> 00:06:05,083 It was more let's develop a hardware and a software. 122 00:06:05,083 --> 00:06:06,750 - I always thought with video games, 123 00:06:06,750 --> 00:06:07,916 when you make them, someone would come with this great, 124 00:06:07,916 --> 00:06:09,791 like this book, here it is. 125 00:06:09,791 --> 00:06:11,416 This is what we're gonna make, and we start page one 126 00:06:11,416 --> 00:06:12,625 and we start making it. 127 00:06:12,625 --> 00:06:13,958 It was never like that. 128 00:06:13,958 --> 00:06:15,291 It was like, so what do you guys wanna do 129 00:06:15,291 --> 00:06:18,500 - At the time, then, the Japanese games had such, 130 00:06:18,500 --> 00:06:21,000 they had this animation down. 131 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,958 I mean, they had just armies of incredibly talented artists. 132 00:06:24,958 --> 00:06:26,583 How can you compete? 133 00:06:26,583 --> 00:06:29,375 - I started playing with video digitization. 134 00:06:29,708 --> 00:06:31,958 That became a huge thing for me during my career. 135 00:06:31,958 --> 00:06:35,958 The idea of taking actual images, video images, 136 00:06:35,958 --> 00:06:39,083 and getting them into a video game, 137 00:06:39,083 --> 00:06:40,750 that was kind of revolutionary. 138 00:06:40,916 --> 00:06:43,375 - The only thing that had happened like this prior 139 00:06:43,375 --> 00:06:44,958 was a game called Journey. 140 00:06:44,958 --> 00:06:47,583 They actually like digitized the heads of five frames 141 00:06:47,583 --> 00:06:49,541 of the band members, and they would like, go. 142 00:06:49,541 --> 00:06:52,458 [video game music] 143 00:06:56,166 --> 00:06:59,916 A normal company, right, would go out and buy 144 00:06:59,916 --> 00:07:02,125 tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment 145 00:07:02,125 --> 00:07:03,583 and cameras and studio setup and everything. 146 00:07:03,583 --> 00:07:06,166 But no, we worked for Eugene Jarvis. 147 00:07:06,166 --> 00:07:09,750 He's like, "Yeah, go out, I bought a camera at Target." 148 00:07:09,750 --> 00:07:11,375 It's like one of these, 149 00:07:11,375 --> 00:07:13,250 you remember those RCA cameras where you put the videotape 150 00:07:13,250 --> 00:07:14,583 in the side and you held it like that? 151 00:07:14,583 --> 00:07:17,333 That's what we had, right, it was [laughs] 152 00:07:17,333 --> 00:07:19,708 - We bought a treadmill that we were able 153 00:07:19,708 --> 00:07:21,416 to take the top off, 'cause I realized 154 00:07:21,416 --> 00:07:24,791 we would have to film people walking in place. 155 00:07:24,791 --> 00:07:29,625 And teaching actors how to be a video game character. 156 00:07:29,625 --> 00:07:33,000 And to my mind, nobody had done that up to that point. 157 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,041 - Jack Haeger approached me one day and said, 158 00:07:36,041 --> 00:07:39,166 "Hey, Mark, I got this concept for this character. 159 00:07:39,166 --> 00:07:40,625 "I think you'd be perfect for it." 160 00:07:40,625 --> 00:07:42,250 - [Jack Haeger] I came up with that character 161 00:07:42,250 --> 00:07:47,250 basically from the old Ironsides TV show 162 00:07:47,375 --> 00:07:49,958 with Raymond Burr in a wheelchair. 163 00:07:49,958 --> 00:07:52,875 And the wheelchair was mounted with guns, of course. 164 00:07:52,875 --> 00:07:54,958 - It really was, at the time, just another day. 165 00:07:54,958 --> 00:07:56,875 I don't think it hit me till decades lat 166 00:07:56,875 --> 00:07:59,333 that oh my gosh, my image is still in there. 167 00:07:59,333 --> 00:08:01,250 I have daughters now, they're gonna see this. 168 00:08:01,250 --> 00:08:02,541 - I did have a question. 169 00:08:02,541 --> 00:08:04,625 At that point, we had filmed a few characters. 170 00:08:04,625 --> 00:08:06,958 We had filmed the environments. 171 00:08:06,958 --> 00:08:10,000 And I asked, okay, we're, 172 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,875 a rocket launcher is one of your weapons now. 173 00:08:12,875 --> 00:08:15,875 And I said, "Okay, when a player fires the rocket launcher, 174 00:08:15,875 --> 00:08:17,125 "what happens?" 175 00:08:17,125 --> 00:08:18,458 And people said, "What do you mean?" 176 00:08:18,458 --> 00:08:21,000 I go, "Well, I can make it look real. 177 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,000 "These are real people." 178 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,000 The mission was to no, make it look real 179 00:08:28,958 --> 00:08:30,583 - The body parts would fly. 180 00:08:30,583 --> 00:08:34,750 I mean, I guess this was one of the first body part games. 181 00:08:34,750 --> 00:08:36,291 I think maybe the first. 182 00:08:36,291 --> 00:08:38,166 - I remember George was like, 183 00:08:38,166 --> 00:08:39,625 "God, this is so cool, I can't believe this! 184 00:08:39,625 --> 00:08:40,958 "It's so cool!" 185 00:08:42,875 --> 00:08:45,750 And I came up and I was really being very gentle about it 186 00:08:45,750 --> 00:08:49,125 and I just said, "I mean, it is cool. 187 00:08:49,125 --> 00:08:52,875 "But do you think that's a good thing to put 188 00:08:52,875 --> 00:08:55,958 "in an arcade where little kids are there?" 189 00:08:55,958 --> 00:08:59,000 - You have to understand, arcades at that point 190 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,541 were still very democratic environments. 191 00:09:02,541 --> 00:09:07,041 Any family, any age could walk in without concern. 192 00:09:07,041 --> 00:09:09,583 - And this escalated into a huge argumen 193 00:09:09,583 --> 00:09:12,708 And I just remember, it was a huge, huge screaming match. 194 00:09:12,708 --> 00:09:14,291 And all I'm saying is, 195 00:09:14,291 --> 00:09:15,375 "I'm just saying we should think about i 196 00:09:15,375 --> 00:09:17,375 "I'm not trying to limit your creativity 197 00:09:17,375 --> 00:09:19,000 "I'm not trying to censor you." 198 00:09:22,250 --> 00:09:24,875 - You know, I think, and I think, too, 199 00:09:24,875 --> 00:09:29,250 with a game that involved realistic content, 200 00:09:29,250 --> 00:09:34,041 when we crossed that bridge of digitizing life, 201 00:09:34,041 --> 00:09:37,541 the game was no longer an escape. 202 00:09:37,541 --> 00:09:40,500 - I remember actually a member of the board of directors 203 00:09:40,500 --> 00:09:45,250 of Williams called the game a surrealistic nightmare. 204 00:09:46,500 --> 00:09:49,958 And he was really concerned that there might be some, 205 00:09:49,958 --> 00:09:53,416 you know, negative ramifications from releasing this game 206 00:09:53,416 --> 00:09:58,166 to the public, and felt that the game should be canceled. 207 00:10:02,750 --> 00:10:04,583 - With the coin-op business, 208 00:10:04,583 --> 00:10:08,250 you're selling that game a quarter at a time. 209 00:10:08,250 --> 00:10:10,541 With the home business, once you sell the cartridge, 210 00:10:10,541 --> 00:10:12,291 if it was back in the old days, 211 00:10:12,291 --> 00:10:14,250 it was a cartridge that fit into a Sega, 212 00:10:14,250 --> 00:10:16,333 fit into a Nintendo. 213 00:10:16,333 --> 00:10:19,958 And it was a crappy game, okay, you made your money. 214 00:10:20,166 --> 00:10:23,000 Coin-op, it was one quarter at a time. 215 00:10:24,375 --> 00:10:26,791 And if that game sucked, the second quarter 216 00:10:26,791 --> 00:10:29,541 or the third quarter, the fourth quarter wouldn't happen. 217 00:10:29,541 --> 00:10:33,375 And in our case, we wouldn't even get out of the test phase. 218 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,291 - We had this magic number of like $700. 219 00:10:39,291 --> 00:10:41,958 I don't know how that number came up. 220 00:10:41,958 --> 00:10:44,750 But we wanted to earn $700 in a week. 221 00:10:44,750 --> 00:10:46,833 That would be, if we could do that, 222 00:10:46,833 --> 00:10:49,541 we felt like we've got something. 223 00:10:49,541 --> 00:10:52,791 - So we put it out there. 224 00:10:52,791 --> 00:10:54,166 I remember, actually, 225 00:10:54,166 --> 00:10:55,291 I actually think we had some champagne. 226 00:10:55,291 --> 00:10:56,791 You know, we were drinking champagne 227 00:10:56,791 --> 00:10:59,166 in this high school arcade. 228 00:11:00,666 --> 00:11:02,250 - I remember the first two guys that played it. 229 00:11:02,250 --> 00:11:03,791 They were literally drug dealers. 230 00:11:03,791 --> 00:11:07,958 I was like [laughs], these guys walk in. 231 00:11:07,958 --> 00:11:09,875 I'm like, these are some bad characters. 232 00:11:09,875 --> 00:11:11,875 They're like, oh, check this out, you know, 233 00:11:11,875 --> 00:11:13,500 and they start playing it. 234 00:11:13,500 --> 00:11:16,500 - The cool thing was the kids really dug the game. 235 00:11:16,500 --> 00:11:20,083 And just this whole new world of kind of like reality. 236 00:11:20,083 --> 00:11:21,625 No one had ever seen anything like that 237 00:11:21,625 --> 00:11:23,166 in a video game before. 238 00:11:23,166 --> 00:11:25,000 - Even with all of the problems in the software and stuff, 239 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,541 I think the first week, it earned like $742. 240 00:11:29,250 --> 00:11:31,416 And we're like we've done it! [triumphant video game music] 241 00:11:31,416 --> 00:11:32,958 We are successful! 242 00:11:32,958 --> 00:11:35,500 Yeah, that was the first time that we actually started 243 00:11:35,500 --> 00:11:38,208 like going, maybe, you know, maybe there's something here. 244 00:11:38,208 --> 00:11:39,333 And that's when we got confident enough 245 00:11:39,333 --> 00:11:41,000 to actually make a plan to sell it. 246 00:11:42,291 --> 00:11:44,750 I think then management all of the sudde 247 00:11:44,750 --> 00:11:46,625 all of the sudden, he actually goes, 248 00:11:46,625 --> 00:11:48,791 "Well, maybe we should order some parts for this game. 249 00:11:48,791 --> 00:11:50,541 "Maybe we should actually plan to build this game 250 00:11:50,541 --> 00:11:52,166 "at some point." 251 00:11:52,166 --> 00:11:52,875 - I don't know if they thought about canceling the game, 252 00:11:52,875 --> 00:11:54,458 but it made so much money, 253 00:11:54,458 --> 00:11:56,958 I think that thought kind of quickly vanished. 254 00:11:58,416 --> 00:11:59,958 [Reporter] - The new game is called NARC. 255 00:11:59,958 --> 00:12:02,625 It's manufactured by a company in Chicago 256 00:12:02,625 --> 00:12:04,416 by Williams Electronics. 257 00:12:04,416 --> 00:12:07,083 And it's currently the number one video arcade game 258 00:12:07,083 --> 00:12:07,875 in the country. 259 00:12:08,208 --> 00:12:08,916 - People were talking about this game 260 00:12:08,958 --> 00:12:11,000 that was extremely violent. 261 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,500 And people could explode and this all other stuff. 262 00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:15,916 But it was okay, because they were drug dealers [laughs] 263 00:12:15,916 --> 00:12:17,125 - [Reporter] For some players, 264 00:12:17,125 --> 00:12:19,000 the carnage is part of the appeal. 265 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:20,625 - I love the gore and the blood 266 00:12:20,625 --> 00:12:22,208 and the guts spilling everywhere. 267 00:12:22,208 --> 00:12:24,208 Then when you hit people, they go flying through the air 268 00:12:24,208 --> 00:12:25,416 and their heads smash on the pavement. 269 00:12:25,416 --> 00:12:26,458 It's really cool. 270 00:12:26,875 --> 00:12:28,083 - Still ahead of its time, Pac-Man sitting next to it, 271 00:12:28,083 --> 00:12:29,500 and things like Donkey Kong. 272 00:12:29,500 --> 00:12:30,916 And now here's NARC. 273 00:12:30,916 --> 00:12:33,791 It was like fast sports cars, drug dealers 274 00:12:33,791 --> 00:12:35,041 trying to like take you down, 275 00:12:35,041 --> 00:12:36,250 and body parts flying everywhere. 276 00:12:36,250 --> 00:12:37,333 And it looked like a movie. 277 00:12:37,666 --> 00:12:40,000 [guns shooting] [characters yelling] 278 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:44,000 - We weren't aware of the changing groundswell 279 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,125 and the appetite for 280 00:12:47,583 --> 00:12:50,958 aggressive or realistic types of games were, 281 00:12:50,958 --> 00:12:54,750 and what NARC brought to that evolution. 282 00:12:54,750 --> 00:12:59,458 [characters yelling] [guns firing] 283 00:13:02,500 --> 00:13:04,375 - One of the things that Williams was so successful 284 00:13:04,375 --> 00:13:09,333 at doing was hiring very creative, dynamic designers. 285 00:13:09,333 --> 00:13:11,791 But in order to do that, creative people have a tendency 286 00:13:11,791 --> 00:13:16,791 sometimes to be kind of off the wall situation. 287 00:13:16,791 --> 00:13:18,250 But we tried to bring those people in 288 00:13:18,250 --> 00:13:19,958 because we knew that they could design 289 00:13:19,958 --> 00:13:21,333 the most successful games. 290 00:13:21,333 --> 00:13:22,666 - Ken goes, "Oh, I want you to meet this guy. 291 00:13:22,666 --> 00:13:24,291 "He's flying in, his name's Mark Turmell 292 00:13:24,291 --> 00:13:25,958 "He's coming from California." 293 00:13:26,416 --> 00:13:29,041 And here comes this larger than life dude 294 00:13:29,041 --> 00:13:33,125 tall, big like permed blond hair. 295 00:13:33,125 --> 00:13:35,500 - What's funny, the interview process in Chicago 296 00:13:35,500 --> 00:13:38,625 was a little bit crazy because I was kinda Mr. California. 297 00:13:38,625 --> 00:13:40,458 I had kinda long hair. 298 00:13:40,458 --> 00:13:43,333 And I think I came in there with some white pants on 299 00:13:43,333 --> 00:13:46,583 and a blue vest, and, you know, kinda looking funny. 300 00:13:46,583 --> 00:13:48,625 - Pretty much the conclusion was this guy 301 00:13:49,333 --> 00:13:51,250 you know, like he's Hollywood, he's crazy 302 00:13:51,250 --> 00:13:53,541 He'll never be able to actually do any real work. 303 00:13:55,041 --> 00:13:57,625 - No, no. 304 00:13:57,625 --> 00:13:59,041 - They did not wanna hire Mark. 305 00:13:59,041 --> 00:14:00,291 We said, "No, we're hiring Mark, 306 00:14:00,291 --> 00:14:01,625 "whether you like it or not." 307 00:14:01,625 --> 00:14:03,458 - We're going, "Oh, this is a big mistake." 308 00:14:04,875 --> 00:14:06,625 But you know, actually, he turned out to be 309 00:14:08,375 --> 00:14:09,583 one of the most brilliant designers we ever had. 310 00:14:09,583 --> 00:14:11,500 - Even when I interviewed, 311 00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:15,583 I said I wanted to revive the dual joystick mechanic. 312 00:14:15,583 --> 00:14:18,083 The dual joystick mechanic of Robotron i 313 00:14:18,083 --> 00:14:19,791 again, it's one of my favorites. 314 00:14:19,791 --> 00:14:20,958 - Crazy thing about Robotron, 315 00:14:20,958 --> 00:14:23,500 I remember when we came up with 316 00:14:23,500 --> 00:14:25,041 that dual stick control thing, and we felt, okay, 317 00:14:25,041 --> 00:14:26,750 this is going to be the new standard. 318 00:14:26,750 --> 00:14:29,625 Every video game from now on will have to have this. 319 00:14:29,625 --> 00:14:32,708 Yet no one copied it. 320 00:14:32,708 --> 00:14:34,291 - Robotron, when I think about that, 321 00:14:34,291 --> 00:14:35,708 it's sensory overload. 322 00:14:35,708 --> 00:14:38,250 There's so many rainbow of colors coming at you, 323 00:14:38,250 --> 00:14:40,041 and the sound effects. 324 00:14:40,041 --> 00:14:41,416 And so I was kind of in that vein 325 00:14:41,416 --> 00:14:44,333 of trying to duplicate that experience. 326 00:14:44,333 --> 00:14:47,250 And so we started kind of plugging away at the game. 327 00:14:47,250 --> 00:14:50,208 And it only took maybe a couple of weeks 328 00:14:50,208 --> 00:14:52,083 before I realized this John Tobias guy 329 00:14:52,083 --> 00:14:54,416 was just a rock star. 330 00:14:54,416 --> 00:14:56,791 - You know, the first game I worked on was SmashTV. 331 00:14:56,791 --> 00:14:58,083 The funny thing about it was 332 00:14:58,083 --> 00:15:00,000 I always looked at it as temporary. 333 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,083 I thought I'm gonna do this for a while. 334 00:15:02,083 --> 00:15:03,708 I'm gonna save my money. 335 00:15:03,708 --> 00:15:05,291 And I'm either gonna draw comic books, 336 00:15:05,291 --> 00:15:08,208 or I'm going to CalArts. 337 00:15:08,208 --> 00:15:09,791 - I remember when we brought him in, 338 00:15:09,791 --> 00:15:11,458 I thought he hated me. 339 00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:13,791 I thought he was like, 340 00:15:13,791 --> 00:15:16,750 'cause he doesn't smile that much. 341 00:15:16,750 --> 00:15:18,500 He doesn't talk that much. 342 00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:22,041 And I just go, wow, this guy, I think he hates me. 343 00:15:22,041 --> 00:15:23,541 - I remember thinking to myself, wow, 344 00:15:23,541 --> 00:15:25,250 I'm working with gods. 345 00:15:25,250 --> 00:15:26,875 I mean, I thought that these are gods. 346 00:15:26,875 --> 00:15:31,125 And just was super excited about working with them. 347 00:15:31,125 --> 00:15:34,083 - A big film at the time, of course, was Running Man. 348 00:15:34,083 --> 00:15:36,708 Robocop was in that same era. 349 00:15:36,708 --> 00:15:38,625 - I'd buy that for a dollar. 350 00:15:40,750 --> 00:15:43,250 - We just had the idea to take these characters 351 00:15:43,250 --> 00:15:45,125 and turn them into a game show. 352 00:15:46,583 --> 00:15:48,750 - I'd buy that for a dollar. 353 00:15:50,125 --> 00:15:52,541 [video game shooting] 354 00:15:52,541 --> 00:15:56,333 - This consumerism gone crazy, futuristic world where, 355 00:15:58,125 --> 00:16:00,666 you know, a toaster is more important than human life. 356 00:16:00,666 --> 00:16:02,416 [cheering] 357 00:16:02,416 --> 00:16:05,416 - You know, Eugene was the king. 358 00:16:05,416 --> 00:16:07,625 We would all go to him for advice. 359 00:16:07,625 --> 00:16:11,416 - We were just starting the Boss Master, 360 00:16:11,416 --> 00:16:13,333 which I guess was Mutoid Man. 361 00:16:16,541 --> 00:16:19,125 And we reached the point where you blew off his head. 362 00:16:19,125 --> 00:16:21,541 - And so I remember creating the little blood spatters 363 00:16:21,541 --> 00:16:26,208 and watching the characters onscreen kinda explode. 364 00:16:26,208 --> 00:16:27,541 I remember the first time I had done it, 365 00:16:27,541 --> 00:16:29,250 I kinda minimized the impact, 366 00:16:29,250 --> 00:16:31,250 because I thought, oh, that's looking pretty gory, 367 00:16:31,250 --> 00:16:32,875 and I dialed it back. 368 00:16:32,875 --> 00:16:36,500 - I think John was opposed to just how many bloody chunks 369 00:16:36,500 --> 00:16:38,083 I put on the screen. 370 00:16:38,083 --> 00:16:40,083 - Everybody goes, "Oh, that's amazing, that's awesome." 371 00:16:41,416 --> 00:16:42,916 And I was going, "Yeah, it's all right." 372 00:16:42,916 --> 00:16:47,500 Then I go, "You know, multiply that by 100." [laughs] 373 00:16:48,208 --> 00:16:50,750 - They pushed, hey more, more blood, more blood. 374 00:16:50,750 --> 00:16:53,416 - This boiling fountain of blood, you know, 375 00:16:53,416 --> 00:16:56,583 it was like, that's gonna get people's attention. 376 00:16:56,583 --> 00:16:58,541 But it, oh man, it looked so alive. 377 00:16:58,541 --> 00:17:01,958 It was just like this cauldron of just boiling blood. 378 00:17:03,250 --> 00:17:05,583 - He said, "Now, you know what a game is 379 00:17:05,583 --> 00:17:07,250 I said, "No." 380 00:17:07,250 --> 00:17:09,250 He said, "A game is 100 of those fucking cool things. 381 00:17:09,250 --> 00:17:10,541 "And now you have one." 382 00:17:10,541 --> 00:17:12,250 And he walked out of my office. 383 00:17:12,250 --> 00:17:14,291 So I was like, okay, so I'm on the right track. 384 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,125 - In terms of how the games did earn money, 385 00:17:18,125 --> 00:17:19,791 we call that percentaging. 386 00:17:19,791 --> 00:17:22,333 And that was largely 387 00:17:24,875 --> 00:17:26,708 up to the game designer to pay attention 388 00:17:26,708 --> 00:17:28,250 to moments in the game 389 00:17:28,250 --> 00:17:31,333 where you might want to lock down a player, 390 00:17:31,333 --> 00:17:33,541 and you might want to give them a greater challenge. 391 00:17:33,541 --> 00:17:36,000 - We wanted to crush the player. 392 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,583 And if you're like crushed by some little guy, 393 00:17:38,583 --> 00:17:42,500 or you get shot in the back by a ant or something, 394 00:17:44,291 --> 00:17:46,708 I mean, it's like, wait a minute, that's not fair. 395 00:17:46,708 --> 00:17:48,333 That guy couldn't have killed me, that guy's a wimp. 396 00:17:48,333 --> 00:17:51,708 But if it's some monstrous guy that's 30 feet tall 397 00:17:51,708 --> 00:17:55,916 on like tank treads running around, and he kills you, 398 00:17:55,916 --> 00:17:57,958 it's like, well, you know, the dude was badass. 399 00:17:57,958 --> 00:17:59,541 I mean, that was a badass dude. 400 00:17:59,541 --> 00:18:01,583 I mean, obviously he's gonna kill me a few times 401 00:18:01,583 --> 00:18:03,000 before I figure out how to do it. 402 00:18:04,541 --> 00:18:06,416 You accepted it. 403 00:18:06,416 --> 00:18:09,000 You accepted your death and gladly paid for more. 404 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:10,791 - Arcade games were built around 405 00:18:10,791 --> 00:18:12,416 you play for this chunk of time, 406 00:18:12,416 --> 00:18:14,291 and then you give us another quarter. 407 00:18:14,291 --> 00:18:17,750 It's like, aw man, I was hoodwinked for decades. 408 00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:20,250 Like people complain about mobile game microtransactions, 409 00:18:20,250 --> 00:18:22,708 but arcade games were doing that decades before that 410 00:18:22,708 --> 00:18:24,750 in way more nefarious ways. 411 00:18:25,208 --> 00:18:28,375 - Supposedly, within SmashTV, was this 412 00:18:28,416 --> 00:18:31,083 Pleasure Dome that 413 00:18:31,583 --> 00:18:33,166 never existed. 414 00:18:33,166 --> 00:18:34,416 - Well, I guess I'm a bit of a scammer. 415 00:18:34,416 --> 00:18:36,208 I just kind of did it on a whim 416 00:18:36,208 --> 00:18:39,958 because I couldn't bring myself to just having a message 417 00:18:39,958 --> 00:18:42,958 that said congratulations, go away, 418 00:18:42,958 --> 00:18:45,416 and never play this game again. 419 00:18:45,416 --> 00:18:48,541 It didn't make sense to just shun people 420 00:18:48,541 --> 00:18:51,250 - And he figured, eh, you know what, 421 00:18:51,250 --> 00:18:52,791 we'll just tell them it's there. 422 00:18:52,791 --> 00:18:54,291 And since it's so late in the game, 423 00:18:54,291 --> 00:18:56,375 the majority of players will never even know. 424 00:18:56,375 --> 00:19:00,166 [Ernest Cline] - I remember just feeding mountains 425 00:19:00,166 --> 00:19:02,958 of tokens and quarters into SmashTV in the arcade 426 00:19:03,041 --> 00:19:05,125 trying to get to the Pleasure Dome 427 00:19:05,125 --> 00:19:06,666 and could never make it there. 428 00:19:07,791 --> 00:19:10,416 And I figured, well, I didn't try hard enough. 429 00:19:10,750 --> 00:19:14,333 - So when Ken Fedesna found out that I had done that 430 00:19:14,333 --> 00:19:16,333 and that there was no Pleasure Dome, 431 00:19:16,333 --> 00:19:19,791 he said, "You've gotta resolve it somehow." 432 00:19:19,791 --> 00:19:23,291 And so we put together a new room, 433 00:19:23,291 --> 00:19:24,875 and we actually supported it. 434 00:19:24,875 --> 00:19:29,416 But of course, not every distributor or arcade owner 435 00:19:29,416 --> 00:19:33,250 would get the new EPROMS to upgrade their machine. 436 00:19:33,250 --> 00:19:35,541 - You know, with a lot of things that happened 437 00:19:35,541 --> 00:19:38,416 in those days, we may not like it. 438 00:19:38,416 --> 00:19:40,125 But if the game ended up doing well, 439 00:19:41,625 --> 00:19:43,583 we kind of would shrug our shoulders and say, 440 00:19:43,583 --> 00:19:46,791 "Okay, well, let's move on to the next thing. 441 00:19:46,791 --> 00:19:48,208 "Don't do that again." 442 00:19:48,208 --> 00:19:50,000 We wouldn't make that big of a deal of it 443 00:19:53,041 --> 00:19:56,500 [Ernest Cline] - So I managed to find a guy 444 00:19:56,500 --> 00:19:59,791 much like myself, who like 445 00:19:59,791 --> 00:20:01,416 had probably spent his whole life, 446 00:20:01,416 --> 00:20:04,000 like I'm gonna find these goddamn Pleasure Domes. 447 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,500 And he somehow found a version of the ROM chips 448 00:20:07,500 --> 00:20:09,625 that had the Pleasure Domes in them, the upgrade. 449 00:20:09,958 --> 00:20:12,291 I remember getting this chip in the mail 450 00:20:12,291 --> 00:20:13,791 and swapping it out and booting it up 451 00:20:13,791 --> 00:20:15,458 and seeing the new version. 452 00:20:15,458 --> 00:20:18,583 And then finally, finally, I reached the Pleasure Domes. 453 00:20:18,583 --> 00:20:21,416 And it was really just a bunch of like girls in bikini icons 454 00:20:21,416 --> 00:20:23,083 that you could run around and scoop up. 455 00:20:23,083 --> 00:20:26,875 [triumphant video game music] 456 00:20:28,250 --> 00:20:29,083 It was pretty... 457 00:20:29,666 --> 00:20:30,166 ...lame 458 00:20:31,458 --> 00:20:33,125 Whoever was responsible for, you know, 459 00:20:34,250 --> 00:20:37,250 for that quest taking me like 20 years 460 00:20:37,250 --> 00:20:39,666 to reach the Pleasure Dome, you should just be ashamed. 461 00:20:39,666 --> 00:20:41,583 And if you never reached the Pleasure Domes, 462 00:20:41,583 --> 00:20:43,041 if you're one of those people, 463 00:20:43,041 --> 00:20:45,000 I will tell you, it was not worth it once you get there. 464 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,125 It's just a, yeah, just shitty. 465 00:20:48,125 --> 00:20:50,250 All right. [laughing] 466 00:20:57,041 --> 00:21:00,166 - There was a grittiness about producing product, 467 00:21:00,166 --> 00:21:02,625 about making games at Williams Electronics, 468 00:21:02,625 --> 00:21:05,791 that I think certainly had an effect on the types of games 469 00:21:05,791 --> 00:21:06,958 that we produced. 470 00:21:06,958 --> 00:21:09,041 - We were in a big factory. 471 00:21:09,041 --> 00:21:10,958 We had rats coming through ceilings. 472 00:21:10,958 --> 00:21:14,000 We had water leaks, floods. 473 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,916 It was part of what Neil fostered, 474 00:21:16,916 --> 00:21:21,666 was a hungry, dirty, grungy atmosphere. 475 00:21:23,458 --> 00:21:25,958 - Yeah, being in Chicago, I think it comes out of the grit 476 00:21:25,958 --> 00:21:30,208 of the manufacturing process. 477 00:21:30,208 --> 00:21:33,500 - I think it's a lot to do with the personalities 478 00:21:33,500 --> 00:21:36,625 of all the people, and the collective personalities, 479 00:21:36,625 --> 00:21:41,375 as we all kind of went for the down and dirty sometimes. 480 00:21:41,375 --> 00:21:45,125 - We weren't afraid and we weren't troubled by the idea 481 00:21:45,125 --> 00:21:48,125 of having people compete, because, you know, 482 00:21:48,125 --> 00:21:50,041 we thought that it would be helpful 483 00:21:50,041 --> 00:21:52,750 enhancing their animal spirits, 484 00:21:52,750 --> 00:21:54,416 to really come up with something special 485 00:21:54,416 --> 00:21:57,250 - When you go back to the pinball days, 486 00:21:57,250 --> 00:21:59,833 you know, in the '60s and '70s, and all that other stuff, 487 00:21:59,833 --> 00:22:02,625 you had basically three major pinball companies. 488 00:22:02,625 --> 00:22:05,250 You had Gottlieb, you had Bally, and you had Williams. 489 00:22:05,250 --> 00:22:07,333 Bally was the leaders at the time. 490 00:22:07,333 --> 00:22:08,625 They were the first ones to come out 491 00:22:08,625 --> 00:22:10,708 with solid state pinball machines. 492 00:22:10,708 --> 00:22:12,291 They acquired Midway, 493 00:22:12,291 --> 00:22:13,916 and then they were running the whole thing. 494 00:22:13,916 --> 00:22:16,375 And they then were able to get Space Invaders, 495 00:22:16,375 --> 00:22:18,000 and of course, Pac-Man, and all the other stuff 496 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:19,625 that went on at the time. 497 00:22:19,625 --> 00:22:24,375 - The rivalry between Bally Midway and Williams 498 00:22:24,541 --> 00:22:29,250 was, you know, a really longstanding, highly competitive 499 00:22:30,583 --> 00:22:33,916 love/hate, maybe more hate than love relationship. 500 00:22:33,916 --> 00:22:36,083 - [Reporter] Well, this is supposed to be Bally's big new, 501 00:22:36,083 --> 00:22:37,791 you know, answer to Pac-Man 502 00:22:37,791 --> 00:22:39,083 and all of that kind of stuff, 503 00:22:39,083 --> 00:22:40,541 the next Pac-Man, the next generation. 504 00:22:41,500 --> 00:22:43,375 Think you'll ever play Roto again? 505 00:22:45,541 --> 00:22:46,958 - I probably would, you know. 506 00:22:48,125 --> 00:22:50,000 I'm trying to figure out what's going on, you know. 507 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,583 - Everyone at Bally Midway had been 508 00:22:52,583 --> 00:22:54,375 looking at Williams for years as Them. 509 00:22:54,375 --> 00:22:56,333 They were the other guys. 510 00:22:56,333 --> 00:22:59,000 They did these type of games 511 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:00,916 that required enormous skill. 512 00:23:00,916 --> 00:23:03,791 And I did games that were idiot-proof and silly and funny. 513 00:23:03,791 --> 00:23:06,875 - And so we really wanted to bury those guys. 514 00:23:06,875 --> 00:23:08,541 We wanted to bury Bally Midway. 515 00:23:08,541 --> 00:23:13,291 We felt that they relied on licensing brands too much. 516 00:23:15,083 --> 00:23:19,208 So we just felt they were phonies and incompetents 517 00:23:19,416 --> 00:23:21,791 and we were going to teach them a lesson 518 00:23:21,791 --> 00:23:24,416 - And they were them and we were us, 519 00:23:24,416 --> 00:23:27,916 and all of a sudden, now they were buying us. 520 00:23:27,916 --> 00:23:29,458 [Ken Fedesna] - They were diversifying into 521 00:23:29,458 --> 00:23:30,875 health clubs and casinos. 522 00:23:30,958 --> 00:23:33,125 ♪ Bally's, Bally's 523 00:23:33,125 --> 00:23:35,708 - They decided to get out of the coin-op industry. 524 00:23:35,708 --> 00:23:38,375 So it became available for us to buy, 525 00:23:38,375 --> 00:23:40,250 and that's why we ended up purchasing them. 526 00:23:40,250 --> 00:23:43,625 - Yeah, we won the war, we killed these guys. 527 00:23:43,625 --> 00:23:47,125 And then the crazy thing is, then we like hired 528 00:23:47,125 --> 00:23:50,750 all their managers and they became our managers [laughs] 529 00:23:50,750 --> 00:23:54,250 And then it was, I don't know, it wasn't a year or two 530 00:23:54,250 --> 00:24:00,125 before we had our name changed to Midway [laughs] 531 00:24:02,666 --> 00:24:05,541 [Neil Nicastro] - We changed the branding of our video games 532 00:24:05,541 --> 00:24:07,333 from Williams to Midway 533 00:24:07,333 --> 00:24:11,583 because Midway had a stronger consumer presence. 534 00:24:11,583 --> 00:24:14,208 - I think I could see Eugene's emotion in it. 535 00:24:14,208 --> 00:24:17,583 We were fighting a war for our jobs, 536 00:24:17,583 --> 00:24:19,541 to get video started. 537 00:24:19,541 --> 00:24:21,250 It was the Williams name. 538 00:24:21,250 --> 00:24:23,541 And a lot of us, we all took very much pride 539 00:24:23,541 --> 00:24:24,833 in the Williams name. 540 00:24:24,833 --> 00:24:26,625 - We won this war, we're Williams. 541 00:24:26,625 --> 00:24:28,291 Why are we Bally Midway? 542 00:24:28,291 --> 00:24:31,250 I mean, they should, Bally Midway becoming Williams. 543 00:24:31,250 --> 00:24:34,291 And he goes, "You know what, I paid five million bucks 544 00:24:34,291 --> 00:24:36,500 "for that fucking name, we're gonna use it." 545 00:24:36,500 --> 00:24:38,625 [laughs] 546 00:24:40,375 --> 00:24:42,583 - The only people that we were able to actually attract 547 00:24:42,583 --> 00:24:44,916 was Brian Colin and Jeff Nauman, 548 00:24:44,916 --> 00:24:47,041 who had done Rampage and Xenophobe 549 00:24:47,041 --> 00:24:49,250 prior to the acquisition, and then came over, 550 00:24:49,250 --> 00:24:50,958 and their first game with us was Arch Rival, 551 00:24:50,958 --> 00:24:53,041 which was a big success at the time. 552 00:24:53,041 --> 00:24:55,708 - The income from Arch Rivals basically paid for 553 00:24:55,708 --> 00:24:58,333 the entire price of the merger. 554 00:24:58,333 --> 00:25:00,125 So really, it was a free deal. 555 00:25:00,125 --> 00:25:02,875 It was actually, Williams got Bally Midway for nothing. 556 00:25:02,875 --> 00:25:05,250 [laughs] 557 00:25:05,250 --> 00:25:08,000 - I'll have to send you the waving goodbye photo. 558 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,541 You'll appreciate it. 559 00:25:09,541 --> 00:25:12,291 It shows what people thought about the buyout. 560 00:25:16,333 --> 00:25:18,916 [George Petro] - I got a call, my phone rang 561 00:25:18,916 --> 00:25:21,250 and it was Neil Nicastro, the CEO. 562 00:25:21,250 --> 00:25:23,333 And he goes, "Hey, what would you think 563 00:25:23,333 --> 00:25:25,041 "about doing a Terminator 2 game?" 564 00:25:25,041 --> 00:25:28,500 And I was like, "There's gonna be a Terminator 2?" 565 00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:32,791 - Arrangements were made for George and I to fly out 566 00:25:32,791 --> 00:25:36,541 to Hollywood to meet with Jim Cameron and his people 567 00:25:36,541 --> 00:25:38,500 and to show demonstrations 568 00:25:38,500 --> 00:25:43,000 of what our digitizing hardware and software was capable of. 569 00:25:43,416 --> 00:25:45,500 - We put on this videotape of us creating NARC. 570 00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:48,625 And Jim Cameron sees it and he just freaks out. 571 00:25:48,625 --> 00:25:51,708 He's just like, he's like, "This is awesome." 572 00:25:51,708 --> 00:25:53,375 - Cameron was great. 573 00:25:53,375 --> 00:25:54,500 I mean, it was like, you guys are making movies 574 00:25:54,500 --> 00:25:56,416 like we are. 575 00:25:56,416 --> 00:25:58,416 - And he just stands up at one point, he goes, 576 00:25:58,416 --> 00:26:01,500 "Give these guys everything they need." 577 00:26:01,500 --> 00:26:03,791 And we're like, Jack and I are like. 578 00:26:03,791 --> 00:26:05,416 - What was interesting to us when we mad 579 00:26:05,416 --> 00:26:07,708 the Terminator 2 arcade game is I'm pretty sure 580 00:26:07,708 --> 00:26:09,375 it was the first movie that ever had 581 00:26:09,583 --> 00:26:11,208 on the set of the movie, 582 00:26:11,208 --> 00:26:13,291 shooting simultaneously through the movie 583 00:26:13,291 --> 00:26:14,958 the arcade game people. 584 00:26:14,958 --> 00:26:16,708 - We had access to all of the actors and everything 585 00:26:16,708 --> 00:26:18,375 from the movie. 586 00:26:18,375 --> 00:26:21,625 But like Arnold, we didn't really have access to him. 587 00:26:21,625 --> 00:26:24,208 He was a little more expensive, more difficult. 588 00:26:24,208 --> 00:26:27,583 But we had access to his stunt double that we could use. 589 00:26:27,583 --> 00:26:30,250 And once he put, he had a prosthetic jaw that he put on, 590 00:26:30,250 --> 00:26:32,291 and he could look exactly like Arnold. 591 00:26:32,291 --> 00:26:34,916 [shooting] 592 00:26:34,916 --> 00:26:36,791 - What's not commonly known is that Linda Hamilton 593 00:26:36,791 --> 00:26:39,416 actually has a twin sister, who's a stunt double 594 00:26:39,416 --> 00:26:40,750 and also her stand-in. 595 00:26:40,750 --> 00:26:42,583 And in fact, at the end of Terminator 2, 596 00:26:42,583 --> 00:26:46,250 there is a sequence where the T-1000 replicates itself 597 00:26:46,250 --> 00:26:47,500 as Sarah Connor, 598 00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:49,416 and then the real Sarah Connor comes behind. 599 00:26:49,416 --> 00:26:51,333 And actually, there's no trick photography in that shot. 600 00:26:51,333 --> 00:26:53,250 That's actually her and her twin sister. 601 00:26:53,250 --> 00:26:55,291 So her twin sister came in and did all the stuff 602 00:26:55,291 --> 00:26:56,666 and was quite happy to do it. 603 00:26:58,375 --> 00:27:01,291 - Robert Patrick was so enthusiastic, 604 00:27:01,291 --> 00:27:03,375 he kept asking me, "So it's gonna look like me?" 605 00:27:03,375 --> 00:27:05,416 And I said, "Yes, it's going to be you. 606 00:27:05,416 --> 00:27:06,708 "We're gonna digitize you." 607 00:27:06,708 --> 00:27:07,875 He goes, "Really?" 608 00:27:07,875 --> 00:27:09,208 "We're gonna videotape you, 609 00:27:09,208 --> 00:27:10,500 "and it's gonna be you in the game." 610 00:27:10,500 --> 00:27:12,083 I think he was just as excited about tha 611 00:27:12,083 --> 00:27:13,958 as he was about his role in the movie. 612 00:27:15,583 --> 00:27:17,250 - [Character] Excellent. 613 00:27:17,250 --> 00:27:19,541 - I think what's really fun about the arcade experience 614 00:27:19,541 --> 00:27:22,416 with peripherals is it kind of allows yo 615 00:27:22,416 --> 00:27:24,000 to have a gaming experience 616 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,125 that you might not be able to get in your house. 617 00:27:26,125 --> 00:27:28,250 Having that thing that you're holding in your hands 618 00:27:28,250 --> 00:27:30,250 makes it feel more like a performance. 619 00:27:30,250 --> 00:27:31,916 [Ernest Cline] - That was one of the most egregious 620 00:27:31,916 --> 00:27:33,208 quarter-sucking games, too. 621 00:27:33,208 --> 00:27:34,708 Like you would get killed after three seconds 622 00:27:34,708 --> 00:27:36,375 and have to put it in, but the graphics, 623 00:27:36,375 --> 00:27:38,750 again, it was like graphics from the movie scanned in. 624 00:27:38,750 --> 00:27:41,750 So you're actually playing Arnold and fighting the T-1000 625 00:27:41,750 --> 00:27:43,416 and there were elements from the movie. 626 00:27:43,416 --> 00:27:45,083 So it really felt like you were in the movies. 627 00:27:45,083 --> 00:27:47,291 - [Character] Hasta la vista, baby. 628 00:27:48,958 --> 00:27:50,750 - But by the time you reached the end 629 00:27:50,750 --> 00:27:53,708 and defeated the T-1000, you had spent more 630 00:27:53,708 --> 00:27:56,125 than it would cost to watch the movie 10 times. 631 00:27:56,125 --> 00:27:57,750 - See, when a game went on test, we all, 632 00:27:57,750 --> 00:28:00,208 we all went out and kind of, 633 00:28:00,208 --> 00:28:03,125 we'd go watch it and have dinner and come watch it. 634 00:28:03,125 --> 00:28:04,958 And the game was killing people in like, 635 00:28:04,958 --> 00:28:07,583 I mean people were literally lasting like 18 seconds. 636 00:28:07,583 --> 00:28:09,875 I remember John Tobias one time, 637 00:28:09,875 --> 00:28:12,250 he's like standing next to it and we're watching it, 638 00:28:12,250 --> 00:28:15,333 and these guys just got wasted. 639 00:28:15,333 --> 00:28:17,583 And he just turns around, he goes, "That was 18 seconds! 640 00:28:17,583 --> 00:28:19,250 "They died in 18 seconds!" 641 00:28:19,250 --> 00:28:20,875 And it was like, you know, he's yelling. 642 00:28:20,875 --> 00:28:22,000 I'm like, "Don't tell them they just lost their money." 643 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:23,958 It was so funny. 644 00:28:23,958 --> 00:28:27,208 - T2 was a good success for Midway. 645 00:28:27,208 --> 00:28:32,916 It opened the door for a more cinematic experience. 646 00:28:33,125 --> 00:28:35,125 - It got Midway to a new level. 647 00:28:35,125 --> 00:28:36,958 It just all of a sudden was like, this is what it means 648 00:28:36,958 --> 00:28:39,291 to sell a crap ton of games. 649 00:28:39,291 --> 00:28:41,375 And this is what it means to earn $1,000 a week. 650 00:28:41,375 --> 00:28:43,125 And just, you know, I mean, it was just nonstop. 651 00:28:44,125 --> 00:28:46,208 - [Character] It's Judgment Day. 652 00:28:46,208 --> 00:28:51,208 - So we released T2, and it did, it was doing great. 653 00:28:51,208 --> 00:28:52,583 And I think this was around the holidays 654 00:28:52,583 --> 00:28:53,791 Matter of fact, I know it was around. 655 00:28:53,791 --> 00:28:56,708 It was New Years Eve. 656 00:28:56,708 --> 00:28:59,625 And our marketing person called me at home and said, 657 00:28:59,625 --> 00:29:01,500 "Jack, are you available on New Years Da 658 00:29:01,500 --> 00:29:04,791 "to come downtown to the studio 659 00:29:04,791 --> 00:29:09,125 "and be interviewed by Entertainment Tonight?" 660 00:29:09,125 --> 00:29:12,125 So I went down the next day, and there was a reporter there, 661 00:29:12,125 --> 00:29:14,708 and the game was there, and she was asking 662 00:29:14,708 --> 00:29:16,333 lots of questions about the development. 663 00:29:16,333 --> 00:29:18,583 Like, "How did you get Arnold into the game?" 664 00:29:18,583 --> 00:29:20,625 and "Wow, that really looks like Robert Patrick," 665 00:29:20,625 --> 00:29:21,875 those sort of questions. 666 00:29:21,875 --> 00:29:24,208 And right in the middle of it was a question 667 00:29:24,208 --> 00:29:26,375 that was framed very different than any other question 668 00:29:26,375 --> 00:29:28,000 she had been asking me. 669 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:32,500 "So in the game, you are shooting police officers. 670 00:29:33,583 --> 00:29:36,583 "How do you feel about that?" 671 00:29:36,583 --> 00:29:37,875 - It's very clear in the movie 672 00:29:37,875 --> 00:29:40,000 that Arnold never kills anybody. 673 00:29:40,291 --> 00:29:41,375 He shoots them in the knee. 674 00:29:44,500 --> 00:29:47,208 And they fall over and they're no longer a threat. 675 00:29:47,208 --> 00:29:49,750 And that's exactly what happens in the game. 676 00:29:49,750 --> 00:29:52,375 [characters crying out] [shooting] 677 00:29:52,375 --> 00:29:55,333 - And I told her to stop right then, and I said, 678 00:29:56,791 --> 00:30:01,375 "You need to convey my answer in its entirety," 679 00:30:02,875 --> 00:30:05,583 because I felt very personal about this. 680 00:30:05,583 --> 00:30:09,750 And I said I had family members who were in the police force 681 00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:12,916 so I took it very seriously. 682 00:30:12,916 --> 00:30:17,125 And what it ended up being was kind of this real accusatory, 683 00:30:17,125 --> 00:30:20,041 hard-hitting like, "So how do you feel 684 00:30:20,041 --> 00:30:22,583 "about making a video game that encourages people 685 00:30:22,583 --> 00:30:24,000 "to shoot cops?" 686 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:28,125 - And it was, it was our first experience in 687 00:30:30,125 --> 00:30:34,083 how video games were directly impacting 688 00:30:35,250 --> 00:30:37,291 the entertainment community, 689 00:30:37,291 --> 00:30:41,166 and through the media, society as a whole 690 00:30:43,416 --> 00:30:46,000 - You know, in some ways, I think the old saying is 691 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,666 bad publicity is never really bad. 692 00:30:48,666 --> 00:30:50,208 It's publicity. 693 00:30:50,208 --> 00:30:52,791 And it gives you some notoriety and some attention. 694 00:30:52,791 --> 00:30:55,833 And maybe people that might not have been aware 695 00:30:55,833 --> 00:30:57,833 of the game before have now become aware of it 696 00:30:57,833 --> 00:30:59,416 because of this free publicity. 697 00:30:59,416 --> 00:31:02,625 So it worked to our advantage, ultimately 698 00:31:07,250 --> 00:31:10,375 - By the early '90s, I mean, we were on a roll at Midway, 699 00:31:10,375 --> 00:31:12,333 and the whole NARC technology, 700 00:31:12,333 --> 00:31:17,083 our photorealistic digitization was just killing the world. 701 00:31:17,375 --> 00:31:22,291 But as studio head, I really didn't have the cycles 702 00:31:22,291 --> 00:31:24,625 to like do something new. 703 00:31:24,625 --> 00:31:27,791 A dream of mine was what's the next phase of the industry, 704 00:31:27,791 --> 00:31:29,708 and it's 3D texture mapping. 705 00:31:29,708 --> 00:31:31,541 I could see that that was going to happen 706 00:31:33,041 --> 00:31:34,750 And I really wanted to do a driving game 707 00:31:35,958 --> 00:31:37,916 - Go in to work Monday morning, 708 00:31:37,916 --> 00:31:42,000 and the person that had to office next to me 709 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:43,666 I noticed was empty. 710 00:31:43,666 --> 00:31:46,416 And I was like, well, what's going on? 711 00:31:46,416 --> 00:31:48,291 And I noticed a couple of cubicles were empty. 712 00:31:48,291 --> 00:31:52,291 I called Ken, I'm like, "Did I miss something?" [laughs] 713 00:31:52,291 --> 00:31:54,291 "Did I miss something that was going on? 714 00:31:54,291 --> 00:31:55,958 "I don't understand." 715 00:31:55,958 --> 00:31:59,833 And he said, "Oh yeah, Eugene and Mark, 716 00:31:59,833 --> 00:32:01,500 "they had a project they wanted to work on. 717 00:32:01,500 --> 00:32:04,000 "But they're gonna work on it out of house." 718 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,125 And out of house meant they had quit 719 00:32:06,125 --> 00:32:07,666 and they started their own company. 720 00:32:07,666 --> 00:32:10,416 And it was like, uh. 721 00:32:10,416 --> 00:32:12,708 - You know, they had tremendous talent. 722 00:32:12,708 --> 00:32:17,083 And you know, it was Turmell, Petro, Jack Haeger. 723 00:32:17,083 --> 00:32:19,875 The art side had John Tobias. 724 00:32:19,875 --> 00:32:21,208 - The first time I heard that, 725 00:32:21,208 --> 00:32:23,791 I remember feeling lost a little bit. 726 00:32:23,791 --> 00:32:25,958 It's almost like your parent is leaving the house 727 00:32:25,958 --> 00:32:27,208 kind of a thing. 728 00:32:27,208 --> 00:32:29,083 - You know, in true Williams style, 729 00:32:29,083 --> 00:32:31,208 nobody decided to say anything. 730 00:32:31,208 --> 00:32:35,750 They never sort of like dealt with the fact 731 00:32:35,750 --> 00:32:39,000 that the manager of the video department was gone. 732 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,250 They just kind of left us, you know, 733 00:32:41,250 --> 00:32:43,541 Lord of the Flies style. 734 00:32:43,541 --> 00:32:45,208 - I always looked at him as being kind of the Godfather 735 00:32:45,208 --> 00:32:47,958 of the industry and sort of a leader of, you know, 736 00:32:47,958 --> 00:32:49,291 of our studio. 737 00:32:49,291 --> 00:32:51,125 And so when he was walking away, 738 00:32:51,125 --> 00:32:54,541 that was not a good feeling. 739 00:32:54,541 --> 00:32:57,166 Here we've got the Godfather, the Doctor of Video Games, 740 00:32:57,166 --> 00:32:59,666 Eugene Jarvis, creator of all. 741 00:32:59,666 --> 00:33:01,000 Some call him God. 742 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:02,625 What do you call yourself? 743 00:33:02,625 --> 00:33:04,500 - Ah, [beep] face. 744 00:33:04,500 --> 00:33:06,333 [laughing] 745 00:33:06,333 --> 00:33:07,666 - [Woman] That's a wrap. 746 00:33:07,666 --> 00:33:09,125 - That's good, that's a wrap, let's end it. 747 00:33:10,250 --> 00:33:12,416 - In the early '80s, the games were metaphor. 748 00:33:12,416 --> 00:33:16,375 So it wasn't real space men. 749 00:33:16,375 --> 00:33:19,000 It was little metaphorical bleeps, 750 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,208 and you know, little animated sprites 751 00:33:21,208 --> 00:33:25,250 that represented a human or an alien or a spaceship. 752 00:33:25,250 --> 00:33:27,916 The more you got into realism, definitely 753 00:33:27,916 --> 00:33:35,750 I think brought in more of the male aggressive game player. 754 00:33:35,750 --> 00:33:37,041 - The games were louder. 755 00:33:37,041 --> 00:33:38,416 The graphics are more detailed. 756 00:33:38,416 --> 00:33:39,625 There's lots more blood. 757 00:33:39,625 --> 00:33:41,750 Like it feels different. 758 00:33:41,750 --> 00:33:43,916 And that's something that the companies 759 00:33:43,916 --> 00:33:45,708 were really actively advertising. 760 00:33:45,708 --> 00:33:47,041 Games have always been violent, 761 00:33:47,041 --> 00:33:48,625 so I'm not saying that comes out of nowhere. 762 00:33:48,625 --> 00:33:50,208 But it's not the thing 763 00:33:50,208 --> 00:33:52,333 that they were kind of leading with before, right? 764 00:33:54,250 --> 00:33:55,708 [Neil Nicastro] - I think everybody by this point 765 00:33:55,708 --> 00:33:57,291 knows the story about Mortal Kombat. 766 00:33:57,291 --> 00:33:59,416 It wasn't Mortal Kombat to start out with 767 00:33:59,416 --> 00:34:03,708 And this is probably the greatest story of Midway 768 00:34:03,958 --> 00:34:05,875 Ed Boon and John Tobias. 769 00:34:05,875 --> 00:34:09,041 [John Tobias]- I think the first time I met him was... 770 00:34:09,041 --> 00:34:11,958 he was playing his radio really loud in his office. 771 00:34:11,958 --> 00:34:13,875 He kept coming next door to us, 772 00:34:13,875 --> 00:34:15,416 you know, knocking on our door and coming in, 773 00:34:15,416 --> 00:34:17,625 sticking his head in and going, 774 00:34:17,625 --> 00:34:18,541 "Hey, is that too loud? 775 00:34:18,541 --> 00:34:20,416 "Sounds too loud." 776 00:34:20,416 --> 00:34:21,666 And he'd go back and lower his volume a little bit 777 00:34:21,666 --> 00:34:22,708 and he'd come back. 778 00:34:22,708 --> 00:34:24,291 "Hey, is that too loud?" 779 00:34:24,291 --> 00:34:27,250 And you know, so that was the first time that I met him. 780 00:34:27,250 --> 00:34:29,916 I think my first reaction was, who the fuck is this guy? 781 00:34:29,916 --> 00:34:32,708 [Neil Nicastro] - We had about a three-month gap 782 00:34:32,708 --> 00:34:35,375 in the factory's production line. 783 00:34:35,375 --> 00:34:37,583 And they said, "We can give you a game." 784 00:34:37,583 --> 00:34:39,708 It was like some ridiculous break time. 785 00:34:39,708 --> 00:34:41,166 It was like six months. 786 00:34:41,166 --> 00:34:44,000 "A new game in six months to fill the gap." 787 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,083 "All right, what is it?" 788 00:34:45,083 --> 00:34:46,583 "It's a fighting game." 789 00:34:46,583 --> 00:34:49,416 [John Tobias] - Karate Champ was a fighting game that I had 790 00:34:49,416 --> 00:34:51,250 played in high school, and I loved that game. 791 00:34:51,250 --> 00:34:53,250 And I thought, wow, that would lend itself 792 00:34:53,250 --> 00:34:56,125 to sort of this one-on-one fighting game idea. 793 00:34:56,125 --> 00:34:58,958 I was a huge martial arts fan. 794 00:34:58,958 --> 00:35:01,250 I loved old Kung Fu movies. 795 00:35:01,250 --> 00:35:03,125 In the early '90s, 796 00:35:03,125 --> 00:35:05,583 there were two up-and-coming martial arts stars. 797 00:35:05,583 --> 00:35:08,750 There was Van Damme, and then there was Steven Seagal. 798 00:35:08,750 --> 00:35:12,125 We thought, wow, we have to get one of those guys involved. 799 00:35:13,958 --> 00:35:15,458 - Not bad kid. 800 00:35:15,458 --> 00:35:18,958 - And we're gonna use Jean-Claude Van Damme's image 801 00:35:18,958 --> 00:35:22,333 in this game like we, you know, 802 00:35:22,333 --> 00:35:25,000 now have begun doing in our other video games. 803 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:26,500 Okay. 804 00:35:26,500 --> 00:35:28,916 - We wanted him to come in to do some videos 805 00:35:28,916 --> 00:35:31,416 you know, to digitize him, and things like that 806 00:35:31,416 --> 00:35:32,708 the voiceover, whatever. 807 00:35:32,708 --> 00:35:35,541 What I remember is he just wasn't cooperative 808 00:35:35,666 --> 00:35:37,208 - This was a filler game for us, 809 00:35:37,208 --> 00:35:39,125 you know, just something to fill the gap 810 00:35:39,125 --> 00:35:42,625 And excuse my language, okay, but I said 811 00:35:42,625 --> 00:35:44,791 "Kenny, tell him to go fuck off. 812 00:35:44,791 --> 00:35:48,000 "Tell these guys, make up their own characters 813 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,208 "and put their own characters in the gam 814 00:35:50,208 --> 00:35:52,333 "Make a fighting game with their own characters. 815 00:35:52,333 --> 00:35:54,250 "Forget about Jean-Claude Van Damme." 816 00:35:54,250 --> 00:35:55,875 - Actually, I thought that was great. 817 00:35:55,875 --> 00:36:00,333 Like, I thought the freedom to sort of create our own story 818 00:36:00,333 --> 00:36:04,250 and our own characters and all those things was appealing. 819 00:36:04,250 --> 00:36:06,000 The first character we taped on Mortal Kombat 820 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:07,750 was Johnny Cage. 821 00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:10,208 - I remember first showing up to the first day 822 00:36:10,208 --> 00:36:12,791 of shooting Mortal Kombat, showing up to film 823 00:36:12,791 --> 00:36:16,333 and literally having to spend an hour with John and Ed 824 00:36:16,333 --> 00:36:18,375 cleaning up an area for us to film, 825 00:36:18,375 --> 00:36:21,250 because there was no room for us to film anything. 826 00:36:21,250 --> 00:36:24,250 [John Tobias] - When we taped the Johnny Cage character, 827 00:36:24,250 --> 00:36:26,333 I think we might have worked on the game 828 00:36:26,333 --> 00:36:30,208 for at least a month before we taped the second character. 829 00:36:30,208 --> 00:36:33,750 I think the idea was we wanted to kinda take our learnings 830 00:36:33,750 --> 00:36:36,791 on Johnny Cage and figure out really what it was 831 00:36:36,791 --> 00:36:38,458 that we were messing with. 832 00:36:38,458 --> 00:36:41,791 If a character threw a kick, you know, they would always, 833 00:36:41,791 --> 00:36:44,208 they'd wanna throw it as fast as they could. 834 00:36:44,208 --> 00:36:47,500 And so the problem for us was it would become a blur. 835 00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:49,875 - John is like, "Bup can't you float? 836 00:36:49,875 --> 00:36:50,791 "Try to float. 837 00:36:50,791 --> 00:36:52,083 "Hold yourself in the air, 838 00:36:52,083 --> 00:36:53,500 "because it's gonna come out blurry." 839 00:36:54,666 --> 00:36:56,333 I was like, Bup, really? 840 00:36:59,250 --> 00:37:00,666 - And that was a learning process. 841 00:37:00,666 --> 00:37:02,666 We didn't walk in with all the answers. 842 00:37:02,666 --> 00:37:06,958 It was just sort of, we would tape a character doing moves 843 00:37:06,958 --> 00:37:09,208 and then we'd go back and work with the actual artwork. 844 00:37:09,208 --> 00:37:11,958 Ed would start to work with the graphics and the game. 845 00:37:14,750 --> 00:37:16,625 He would kinda come back with the reality of, 846 00:37:16,625 --> 00:37:19,791 well, we have to do that in three frames, or four frames. 847 00:37:19,791 --> 00:37:21,958 Speed was super important to him. 848 00:37:21,958 --> 00:37:23,791 - Then we'd go on our review. 849 00:37:23,791 --> 00:37:24,583 We'd go look at the games. 850 00:37:24,583 --> 00:37:26,250 And it was early on. 851 00:37:26,250 --> 00:37:29,416 When we saw up on the screen, 852 00:37:29,416 --> 00:37:33,875 they had fighters fighting fast as hell. 853 00:37:33,875 --> 00:37:35,875 [Mortal Kombat music] 854 00:37:35,875 --> 00:37:39,791 [characters yelling and grunting] 855 00:37:42,375 --> 00:37:43,375 We said, holy shit. 856 00:37:44,291 --> 00:37:46,375 This thing is great. 857 00:37:47,208 --> 00:37:51,875 And what was a six-month production time 858 00:37:51,875 --> 00:37:56,625 to fill a hole in the factory, 859 00:37:57,208 --> 00:37:59,583 we threw that out the window and realize 860 00:37:59,583 --> 00:38:00,708 continue where you're going, 861 00:38:00,708 --> 00:38:02,750 because this thing is great. 862 00:38:02,750 --> 00:38:05,000 [characters yelling] 863 00:38:11,291 --> 00:38:13,125 [Game] - Test your might. 864 00:38:26,333 --> 00:38:28,541 Liu Kang, wins. 865 00:38:28,541 --> 00:38:30,208 [applauding] 866 00:38:30,208 --> 00:38:32,708 [John Tobias] - That's just an obnoxious moment 867 00:38:34,416 --> 00:38:35,958 [Daniel Pesina] - John wanted to do a ninja 868 00:38:35,958 --> 00:38:38,958 And right away, I was like, ninja? 869 00:38:38,958 --> 00:38:40,541 Ninja's already been, 870 00:38:40,541 --> 00:38:43,208 you know, everyone's a ninja, it's friggin' '80s. 871 00:38:43,208 --> 00:38:47,958 But there's, in China there's these type of ninja. 872 00:38:49,458 --> 00:38:51,375 - The Chinese Ninja Connection was the name of the book. 873 00:38:51,375 --> 00:38:53,625 It was written as this historical book about 874 00:38:55,041 --> 00:38:58,000 some order of Chinese assassins who had 875 00:38:59,375 --> 00:39:01,958 sort of predated the Japanese ninja. 876 00:39:01,958 --> 00:39:03,625 - So actually, he bought that book, 877 00:39:03,625 --> 00:39:07,416 and Scorpion and Sub-Zero are originally from that clan. 878 00:39:07,416 --> 00:39:09,583 - The whole thing was like, the name was made up. 879 00:39:09,583 --> 00:39:11,708 The whole story was gonna be bullshit. 880 00:39:11,708 --> 00:39:13,708 - You have people out there who care 881 00:39:13,708 --> 00:39:15,041 about the lore of Mortal Kombat. 882 00:39:15,041 --> 00:39:16,916 You have people that can go through, lik 883 00:39:16,916 --> 00:39:18,125 well, this is Sub-Zero's brother, 884 00:39:18,125 --> 00:39:18,791 and he's not wearing the mask here. 885 00:39:18,791 --> 00:39:20,250 And this is original Sub-Zero, 886 00:39:20,250 --> 00:39:21,625 and then there's classic Sub-Zero. 887 00:39:21,625 --> 00:39:23,416 They can run all that stuff down 888 00:39:23,416 --> 00:39:26,666 because those characters have just become so iconic 889 00:39:26,666 --> 00:39:28,500 over the years. 890 00:39:28,500 --> 00:39:30,333 I mean, wrestling was stealing stuff from Mortal Kombat. 891 00:39:30,333 --> 00:39:33,208 Glacier, the wrestler, was just Sub-Zero 892 00:39:33,208 --> 00:39:34,291 [video game yelling drowning out announcer] 893 00:39:34,291 --> 00:39:36,541 [Announcer] - Combination of styles. 894 00:39:36,541 --> 00:39:39,041 [John Tobias] - You know, while I may have created 895 00:39:39,041 --> 00:39:42,250 maybe the visual qualities of the characters, 896 00:39:42,250 --> 00:39:44,583 you know, the back- story and whatnot, 897 00:39:44,583 --> 00:39:48,791 really, the core of the product was its playability. 898 00:39:48,791 --> 00:39:51,541 And that started with Ed. 899 00:39:51,541 --> 00:39:54,291 That always came from him sort of playing the game. 900 00:39:54,291 --> 00:39:56,125 And he would sit in his office for hours 901 00:39:56,125 --> 00:39:58,000 and call people in to kind of, 902 00:39:58,000 --> 00:39:59,541 "Hey, try this, hey, try that." 903 00:39:59,791 --> 00:40:03,208 - His games reflect his personality. 904 00:40:03,208 --> 00:40:06,416 I think his games bring out the way Ed really feels 905 00:40:06,416 --> 00:40:09,500 about things, because his nature is outrageous. 906 00:40:09,750 --> 00:40:12,000 - There was a period at the end of a match 907 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,416 where you kind of got a free hit off of your opponent. 908 00:40:15,416 --> 00:40:18,541 And we wanted to kind of put an exclamation on it. 909 00:40:18,541 --> 00:40:21,250 For us, it was always, hey, watch me go do an uppercut. 910 00:40:21,250 --> 00:40:22,791 Somewhere along the way, 911 00:40:22,791 --> 00:40:26,958 Ed put in Johnny Cage punching off the opponent's head. 912 00:40:29,208 --> 00:40:31,958 - I was like, you can't, I was like, in shock. 913 00:40:31,958 --> 00:40:33,541 I was like, you can't do that. 914 00:40:33,541 --> 00:40:37,458 Holy cow, it looked so real to me, that I was like, 915 00:40:37,458 --> 00:40:38,500 Boop, you just killed me. 916 00:40:40,583 --> 00:40:42,250 - [Game] Cage wins. 917 00:40:42,250 --> 00:40:43,291 - And he was like, "Yeah, isn't that really cool?" 918 00:40:43,291 --> 00:40:44,666 And I was like, "Dude, you can't do that 919 00:40:44,666 --> 00:40:47,000 And he goes, "We can do whatever we want 920 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:48,458 And I was like, looked at him, I was like 921 00:40:48,458 --> 00:40:51,125 "You're right, we can" because no boss has ever let, 922 00:40:51,125 --> 00:40:53,416 I've never seen a boss hanging out with us. 923 00:40:53,416 --> 00:40:55,833 We can shoot whatever we want, and that's what they get. 924 00:40:55,833 --> 00:41:00,708 - I was never telling Ed Boon, "Hey, don't pull that, 925 00:41:00,708 --> 00:41:02,625 "don't decapitate that guy's head." 926 00:41:02,625 --> 00:41:07,583 Instead, you know, I would, I remember suggesting to him, 927 00:41:07,583 --> 00:41:10,250 "Can't you do a fatality where you rip the guy's leg off 928 00:41:10,250 --> 00:41:13,875 "and beat the crap out of him with his own leg?" 929 00:41:13,875 --> 00:41:16,875 [character yelling] 930 00:41:18,250 --> 00:41:21,250 From a management standpoint, we also believed 931 00:41:21,250 --> 00:41:22,916 that's what the customer wanted. 932 00:41:22,916 --> 00:41:25,750 - He buried it in some button, joystick combination 933 00:41:25,750 --> 00:41:28,500 that he thought no one would ever discover. 934 00:41:28,500 --> 00:41:30,875 I remember the players discovered it right away. 935 00:41:30,875 --> 00:41:32,541 Like it was the first weekend, they discovered it. 936 00:41:32,541 --> 00:41:36,541 And we were there at some point watching the reactions. 937 00:41:36,541 --> 00:41:40,708 - Oh, everybody kind of, when they saw the fatalities... 938 00:41:40,708 --> 00:41:43,791 [characters yelling] 939 00:41:51,375 --> 00:41:53,375 They knew this was something different. 940 00:41:53,375 --> 00:41:55,333 - We knew right then, there, that there was no way 941 00:41:55,333 --> 00:41:57,041 we were going to ever take those things out. 942 00:41:57,041 --> 00:41:59,166 And if anything, we need to give them more. 943 00:41:59,166 --> 00:42:01,416 - Back in the day, I had a little piece of paper 944 00:42:01,708 --> 00:42:05,041 that had all of the combos for the fatalities written down. 945 00:42:05,041 --> 00:42:07,333 I mean, obviously you have to memorize them at some point. 946 00:42:07,333 --> 00:42:09,541 But I would like whip that little cheat sheet out 947 00:42:09,541 --> 00:42:11,541 and like quickly type in all the buttons 948 00:42:11,541 --> 00:42:12,833 to make sure I got it. 949 00:42:12,833 --> 00:42:14,791 - They've got this game, Mortal Kombat, 950 00:42:14,791 --> 00:42:16,541 and you could kill people. 951 00:42:16,541 --> 00:42:18,333 And I was like, I didn't, 952 00:42:18,333 --> 00:42:20,291 it's hard to even know what that even meant. 953 00:42:20,291 --> 00:42:21,625 But I'm like, all right, dude. 954 00:42:21,625 --> 00:42:23,500 I'm gonna go, we're gonna check this out 955 00:42:23,500 --> 00:42:26,750 And sure enough, in the back of this skateboard shop, 956 00:42:26,750 --> 00:42:29,750 they had an MK machine. 957 00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:32,708 And I just took one look at it and was like. 958 00:42:32,708 --> 00:42:34,000 - [Game] John Cage. 959 00:42:35,250 --> 00:42:37,416 - They are killing people. 960 00:42:37,416 --> 00:42:38,916 - It was like a big F-U to everybody. 961 00:42:38,916 --> 00:42:39,791 It was like, oh, you don't want us 962 00:42:39,791 --> 00:42:41,083 to make video games like this? 963 00:42:41,083 --> 00:42:42,625 Well, how about we turn it up to 11 964 00:42:43,666 --> 00:42:45,375 and just make that even worse than anything you could imagine? 965 00:42:45,375 --> 00:42:47,375 I'm sure they were all just laughing heartily. 966 00:42:50,166 --> 00:42:51,791 - You know, we're doing the stuff with Liz. 967 00:42:51,791 --> 00:42:53,166 She's athletic, kickass. 968 00:42:53,166 --> 00:42:54,416 - Then she goes up into that. - Yeah. 969 00:42:54,416 --> 00:42:55,458 - Okay. - Then pose. 970 00:42:56,583 --> 00:42:57,625 - Right! - Yeah! 971 00:42:59,416 --> 00:43:01,958 - We're going to go into fatality. 972 00:43:01,958 --> 00:43:03,875 And Liz looks at him and goes, 973 00:43:03,875 --> 00:43:05,875 "I'm not going to do a fatality. 974 00:43:05,875 --> 00:43:08,250 "Why can't I just give him like a flower or something, 975 00:43:08,250 --> 00:43:09,583 "and peace and love?" 976 00:43:09,583 --> 00:43:11,291 [character yelling] 977 00:43:11,291 --> 00:43:13,250 - [Game] Sonya wins, fatality. 978 00:43:17,250 --> 00:43:19,791 - And then, of course, came the brutalities, 979 00:43:19,791 --> 00:43:22,750 the babalities, which were so ridiculous 980 00:43:22,750 --> 00:43:23,708 and the friendships. 981 00:43:26,916 --> 00:43:28,916 - By the end of its production run, 982 00:43:28,916 --> 00:43:31,291 the first Mortal Kombat game, I believe, 983 00:43:31,291 --> 00:43:34,791 ended up selling about 27,000 units. 984 00:43:36,625 --> 00:43:38,875 - And I guarantee if you ask Ed and John separately, 985 00:43:38,875 --> 00:43:40,333 there's no way they had a vision 986 00:43:40,333 --> 00:43:42,875 that it was going to go the way that it went. 987 00:43:42,875 --> 00:43:44,333 I mean, none of us did. 988 00:43:44,333 --> 00:43:46,250 None of us could imagine that you could sell 989 00:43:46,250 --> 00:43:48,708 that many games again in our era. 990 00:43:48,708 --> 00:43:51,958 [music] 991 00:43:55,625 --> 00:43:58,291 - Being a nerd and being aspirational 992 00:43:58,291 --> 00:43:59,791 about the games industry in general, 993 00:43:59,791 --> 00:44:02,125 from a young age, I knew some names. 994 00:44:02,125 --> 00:44:04,250 I knew Mark Cerny had created Marble Madness. 995 00:44:04,250 --> 00:44:06,333 And I remember hearing these stories 996 00:44:06,333 --> 00:44:08,375 about a guy named Mark Turmell, 997 00:44:08,375 --> 00:44:12,375 who had created Toy Bizarre for Activision. 998 00:44:12,375 --> 00:44:14,500 - [Announcer] Mark is one of nation's leading designers 999 00:44:14,500 --> 00:44:15,958 of home video software, 1000 00:44:15,958 --> 00:44:18,541 a former boy wonder who did not burn out 1001 00:44:18,541 --> 00:44:22,625 A creative computer whiz with a dinosaur-like age of 23, 1002 00:44:22,625 --> 00:44:25,541 he's still cranking out video games for the home market. 1003 00:44:25,541 --> 00:44:26,875 How many teenagers, after all, 1004 00:44:26,875 --> 00:44:28,166 make it into People Magazine 1005 00:44:28,166 --> 00:44:30,416 and find themselves in other articles 1006 00:44:30,416 --> 00:44:33,416 described as the hottest designer in the industry? 1007 00:44:33,416 --> 00:44:34,541 - I love golf. 1008 00:44:34,541 --> 00:44:36,208 I go on streaks on golf. 1009 00:44:36,208 --> 00:44:38,291 I get addicted and then I get frustrated 1010 00:44:38,291 --> 00:44:41,583 But I love basketball and gambling. 1011 00:44:41,583 --> 00:44:44,916 - So when I recognized Mark Turmell's name 1012 00:44:44,916 --> 00:44:48,541 in the credits of NBA Jam, that was a revelation. 1013 00:44:48,541 --> 00:44:50,083 I know that guy. 1014 00:44:50,083 --> 00:44:51,750 I don't know that guy, but I know that guy! 1015 00:44:51,750 --> 00:44:53,041 I remember, I remember hear, 1016 00:44:53,041 --> 00:44:54,416 whatever happened to Mark Turmell? 1017 00:44:54,416 --> 00:44:57,750 Oh, he's making one of the greatest arcade games 1018 00:44:57,750 --> 00:44:58,541 of all time. 1019 00:45:02,500 --> 00:45:04,875 [Mark Turmell] - The rules of basketball are so perfect 1020 00:45:04,875 --> 00:45:07,000 You've got a three-point line. 1021 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,208 You've got timers for the shot clock. 1022 00:45:09,208 --> 00:45:13,291 You've got periods that we can tighten up to be 1023 00:45:13,291 --> 00:45:14,750 the right timeframe. 1024 00:45:14,750 --> 00:45:17,750 So just the inherent rules of basketball 1025 00:45:17,750 --> 00:45:22,166 made for really a great product strategy 1026 00:45:25,166 --> 00:45:27,333 - People have asked me about the influence of 1027 00:45:27,333 --> 00:45:30,333 Arch Rivals on NBA Jam, obviously, 1028 00:45:30,333 --> 00:45:32,666 'cause a lot of the same game-playing mechanic. 1029 00:45:32,666 --> 00:45:34,250 We were first. 1030 00:45:34,250 --> 00:45:36,708 But all I really know is that I've been told 1031 00:45:36,708 --> 00:45:39,875 that Mark Turmell was a fan. 1032 00:45:39,875 --> 00:45:41,708 - You know, I think maybe I've played that game 1033 00:45:41,708 --> 00:45:44,208 three or four games total in my life. 1034 00:45:44,208 --> 00:45:48,375 It's just not a game that appealed to me with, 1035 00:45:48,375 --> 00:45:49,625 you know, you kinda pull the pants down. 1036 00:45:49,625 --> 00:45:51,208 They had a punch. 1037 00:45:51,208 --> 00:45:53,791 - He asked us about our interest in doing licensed products, 1038 00:45:53,791 --> 00:45:55,958 officially licensed products. 1039 00:45:55,958 --> 00:45:59,083 And we were resistant, 1040 00:45:59,083 --> 00:46:01,875 mainly because on my side was, 1041 00:46:01,875 --> 00:46:03,916 I didn't want to do photographic stuff. 1042 00:46:03,916 --> 00:46:05,958 I wanted to keep doing cartoons. 1043 00:46:05,958 --> 00:46:08,291 I felt that's where the humor was gonna be. 1044 00:46:08,291 --> 00:46:10,250 - Neil Nicastro came into my office one day, 1045 00:46:10,250 --> 00:46:13,541 and he said, "How come you're not pursuing 1046 00:46:13,541 --> 00:46:14,791 "the NBA license? 1047 00:46:14,791 --> 00:46:17,250 - If they're the real basketball players 1048 00:46:17,250 --> 00:46:19,791 that's what the players are going to want to be. 1049 00:46:19,791 --> 00:46:21,125 They're going to want to, 1050 00:46:21,125 --> 00:46:23,125 they have their favorite basketball stars 1051 00:46:23,125 --> 00:46:25,625 They want to play as those basketball stars. 1052 00:46:25,625 --> 00:46:26,791 That what we have to do. 1053 00:46:27,791 --> 00:46:28,666 - Made the pitch. 1054 00:46:30,541 --> 00:46:31,833 - [Announcer] Williams Electronics is currently developing 1055 00:46:31,833 --> 00:46:35,125 an arcade-based, four-player video basketball game, 1056 00:46:35,125 --> 00:46:38,541 one which employs lifelike digitized graphics. 1057 00:46:38,541 --> 00:46:41,000 First, basketball players are videotaped in the studio 1058 00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,375 performing hundreds of moves. 1059 00:46:43,375 --> 00:46:46,791 Artists digitize this footage into individual frames, 1060 00:46:46,791 --> 00:46:49,625 which are stored and played back in sequence, 1061 00:46:49,625 --> 00:46:52,625 or animated to create a video basketball player 1062 00:46:52,625 --> 00:46:55,583 capable of performing on command. 1063 00:46:55,583 --> 00:46:58,333 Well, the NBA's immediate reaction was, 1064 00:46:58,333 --> 00:47:00,625 hey, thanks, but no thanks. 1065 00:47:00,625 --> 00:47:03,208 Their kind of understanding or perception 1066 00:47:03,208 --> 00:47:06,416 of the arcade business was rooted there 1067 00:47:06,416 --> 00:47:10,625 in Times Square, which was a very seedy area at the time. 1068 00:47:10,625 --> 00:47:15,375 And they did not want the NBA logo presented 1069 00:47:15,375 --> 00:47:16,791 in that atmosphere. 1070 00:47:16,791 --> 00:47:19,750 - I remember a comment internally 1071 00:47:19,750 --> 00:47:22,375 "Don't they realize how much money they're gonna make?" 1072 00:47:22,375 --> 00:47:24,250 Seriously, I mean, we're not even gonna cover the salary 1073 00:47:24,250 --> 00:47:25,916 of one player, let's face it. 1074 00:47:25,916 --> 00:47:29,333 The NBA will continue whether they do a game with us or not. 1075 00:47:30,083 --> 00:47:31,666 - So our video guy, once again, he said, 1076 00:47:31,666 --> 00:47:33,250 "I can solve this." 1077 00:47:33,250 --> 00:47:35,541 He went out to family entertainment centers 1078 00:47:35,541 --> 00:47:38,916 around Chicago and he took videos to sho 1079 00:47:38,916 --> 00:47:40,375 what a real arcade is like. 1080 00:47:40,375 --> 00:47:42,708 We sent that back to the NBA 1081 00:47:42,708 --> 00:47:46,750 to tell them this is what it's like, not Times Square. 1082 00:47:46,750 --> 00:47:48,541 They accepted that, they understood, 1083 00:47:48,541 --> 00:47:52,208 and they started talking deal terms with Roger Sharpe. 1084 00:47:52,208 --> 00:47:54,250 - Understand and appreciate that there's never been 1085 00:47:54,250 --> 00:47:57,250 a professional sports team licensed in coin-op. 1086 00:47:57,250 --> 00:48:00,291 - Well, the logistics of getting all the players 1087 00:48:01,291 --> 00:48:05,250 in our studio, and then the logistics of having them do 1088 00:48:05,250 --> 00:48:07,916 every animation over and over and over again, 1089 00:48:07,916 --> 00:48:09,333 because there was a few hundred animations, 1090 00:48:09,333 --> 00:48:11,500 and the logistics of then going through 1091 00:48:11,500 --> 00:48:14,333 and stripping out all those, it couldn't be done. 1092 00:48:14,333 --> 00:48:16,333 Like there's just no way. 1093 00:48:16,333 --> 00:48:18,500 - [Man] Okay, all right, that's good. 1094 00:48:18,500 --> 00:48:22,250 - We figured out a system for using 1095 00:48:22,250 --> 00:48:25,333 an attachment system that games typically used 1096 00:48:25,333 --> 00:48:28,000 for putting like different types of guns or weapons 1097 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,125 or props in characters' hands. 1098 00:48:30,125 --> 00:48:32,541 [Mark Turmell] - And so Shawn Liptak trimmed off a head 1099 00:48:32,541 --> 00:48:36,208 and he pasted that head on to prove 1100 00:48:36,208 --> 00:48:39,125 that we could kind of change up a different flesh tone, 1101 00:48:39,125 --> 00:48:40,708 a different look. 1102 00:48:40,708 --> 00:48:43,208 - There were 16 different head angles that we had to use, 1103 00:48:43,208 --> 00:48:45,375 one looking forward, one looking up, one looking down, 1104 00:48:45,375 --> 00:48:46,958 one looking left, one looking right, 1105 00:48:46,958 --> 00:48:49,083 one looking left up, one looking left down [mumbles], 1106 00:48:50,666 --> 00:48:52,250 all the way around. 1107 00:48:52,250 --> 00:48:54,375 - And again, this is before the internet 1108 00:48:54,375 --> 00:48:59,125 This is before, you know, any easily accessible resource. 1109 00:48:59,958 --> 00:49:01,750 So we were looking at VHS tapes 1110 00:49:01,750 --> 00:49:03,916 of the biggest dunks of all time, 1111 00:49:03,916 --> 00:49:07,958 looking at the athletes and trying to trim out 1112 00:49:07,958 --> 00:49:12,375 their faces at these different angles. 1113 00:49:12,375 --> 00:49:14,583 - We thought, hey, why don't we put our heads in. 1114 00:49:14,583 --> 00:49:17,375 Like let's be in the game ourselves. 1115 00:49:17,375 --> 00:49:18,708 How cool would that be? 1116 00:49:18,708 --> 00:49:21,000 That's worth doing the game right there for. 1117 00:49:22,875 --> 00:49:25,250 We got, you know, everybody from around 1118 00:49:25,250 --> 00:49:26,541 who wanted to be in there. 1119 00:49:26,541 --> 00:49:27,875 And we'd get them into the studio, 1120 00:49:27,875 --> 00:49:29,166 and we'd shoot all our angles. 1121 00:49:29,166 --> 00:49:30,583 And then there was one guy that we worked with, 1122 00:49:30,583 --> 00:49:35,250 Sheridan Oursler, who came in with a derby hat on his head. 1123 00:49:36,958 --> 00:49:39,250 And we're like, "Hey Sheridan, you want us to shoot you 1124 00:49:39,250 --> 00:49:40,916 "with that hat on your head? 1125 00:49:40,916 --> 00:49:42,958 He was like, "Yeah, yeah, this is my derby." 1126 00:49:43,958 --> 00:49:45,250 And so we go, "Okay." 1127 00:49:45,250 --> 00:49:47,750 And so we shot him with a derby on his head 1128 00:49:47,750 --> 00:49:48,958 and put him in the game 1129 00:49:48,958 --> 00:49:50,291 and like didn't think anything of it. 1130 00:49:50,291 --> 00:49:52,291 And then I think we put the game on test 1131 00:49:52,291 --> 00:49:55,375 And people freaked out because it was a person 1132 00:49:55,375 --> 00:49:56,708 with a derby. 1133 00:49:56,708 --> 00:49:57,916 You've never seen a person with a derby 1134 00:49:57,916 --> 00:49:59,958 playing a basketball game before. 1135 00:49:59,958 --> 00:50:02,416 So like within a few weeks, you know, 1136 00:50:02,416 --> 00:50:04,583 throughout the arcades that we had it on test in, 1137 00:50:04,583 --> 00:50:07,291 everybody's playing Sheridan's head with a derby hat. 1138 00:50:07,291 --> 00:50:09,375 - [Game] Go up, delivers the special! 1139 00:50:10,791 --> 00:50:12,083 - Funny, because we got NBA license, 1140 00:50:12,083 --> 00:50:13,708 but people liked playing the special characters 1141 00:50:13,708 --> 00:50:14,958 more than they liked playing the NBA players. 1142 00:50:14,958 --> 00:50:17,375 - Well, we were doing things now, 1143 00:50:17,375 --> 00:50:20,375 like putting in the Mortal Kombat characters. 1144 00:50:20,375 --> 00:50:22,958 [NBA Jam music] 1145 00:50:23,958 --> 00:50:26,250 - The NBA had a fit 1146 00:50:26,458 --> 00:50:28,000 when they saw there were Mortal Kombat characters. 1147 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,333 [characters yelling] 1148 00:50:31,333 --> 00:50:33,208 - And I thought, oh gamers are gonna love that. 1149 00:50:33,208 --> 00:50:35,333 A little crossover, thing, that's great. 1150 00:50:35,333 --> 00:50:37,708 And so Mark says that on the record in an interview, 1151 00:50:37,708 --> 00:50:40,625 and I go and I type it up. 1152 00:50:40,625 --> 00:50:44,291 And a week-and-a-half later, I get a phone call from Mark, 1153 00:50:44,291 --> 00:50:46,416 which I'm not expecting. 1154 00:50:46,416 --> 00:50:49,041 And he goes, "Yeah, I needed to follow up with you 1155 00:50:49,041 --> 00:50:52,125 "on something that came up in our interview. 1156 00:50:53,583 --> 00:50:55,666 "Remember that thing about the Mortal Kombat 1157 00:50:55,666 --> 00:50:57,375 "secret characters in Tournament Edition 1158 00:50:57,375 --> 00:50:59,250 I'm like, "Yeah, I'm looking forward to that." 1159 00:50:59,250 --> 00:51:02,708 He goes, "Yeah, we've been on the phone with the NBA, 1160 00:51:02,708 --> 00:51:07,458 "and they're, they're not really into the idea." [laughs] 1161 00:51:08,083 --> 00:51:09,791 - And it was not a good situation. 1162 00:51:09,791 --> 00:51:11,333 And we had to scramble very, very quickly 1163 00:51:11,333 --> 00:51:13,416 to produce a new set of ROMs that did not have 1164 00:51:13,416 --> 00:51:16,583 the Mortal Kombat characters in them. 1165 00:51:16,583 --> 00:51:19,083 - [Game] Get that outta here! 1166 00:51:19,083 --> 00:51:21,875 - That traditional gaming audience 1167 00:51:21,875 --> 00:51:23,291 that wants to find secrets, 1168 00:51:23,291 --> 00:51:25,875 that needs to collect every coin in the game, 1169 00:51:25,875 --> 00:51:28,375 that wants to know every secret warp in every level, 1170 00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,208 that absolutely was catnip 1171 00:51:32,208 --> 00:51:34,250 to all of the hard-core gamers that were like, 1172 00:51:34,250 --> 00:51:36,000 "Well, I know something you don't know." 1173 00:51:36,791 --> 00:51:38,000 - [Game] No way! 1174 00:51:40,083 --> 00:51:41,541 Jackson [cheering drowns out words] 1175 00:51:41,541 --> 00:51:44,291 - Having actual announcers, 1176 00:51:45,666 --> 00:51:48,625 I couldn't push them into the high energy part 1177 00:51:48,625 --> 00:51:51,333 of being an announcer voice 1178 00:51:51,333 --> 00:51:53,791 for a quarter-at-a-time video game 1179 00:51:53,791 --> 00:51:55,083 in an arcade setting. 1180 00:51:55,083 --> 00:51:57,125 - I had never done any voiceover before. 1181 00:51:57,125 --> 00:51:59,375 I had never done any sports work before, 1182 00:51:59,375 --> 00:52:01,166 related to acting or voiceover. 1183 00:52:01,166 --> 00:52:03,125 It was just acting work, stage work, 1184 00:52:03,125 --> 00:52:04,875 and work at Second City. 1185 00:52:04,875 --> 00:52:06,291 - So I got Tim in. 1186 00:52:06,291 --> 00:52:10,333 And he was kinda doing his Marv Alpert 1187 00:52:10,333 --> 00:52:12,333 but really, he just became himself 1188 00:52:12,333 --> 00:52:14,125 and became that actor. 1189 00:52:14,125 --> 00:52:15,041 - It was like this. 1190 00:52:15,041 --> 00:52:17,000 John came in, gave me a script. 1191 00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:19,375 He said, "Big," he said, "Loud," 1192 00:52:19,375 --> 00:52:23,291 and I went, "He's on fire, rejected, boom shakalaka! 1193 00:52:23,291 --> 00:52:24,500 "He's heating up!" 1194 00:52:24,500 --> 00:52:27,333 And that was about it. [laughs] 1195 00:52:27,333 --> 00:52:29,250 - And think about making that system work 1196 00:52:29,250 --> 00:52:33,208 We're talking about a system that is calling 1197 00:52:33,208 --> 00:52:37,708 the play-by-play action, splicing in player names, 1198 00:52:37,708 --> 00:52:39,583 at different levels of inflection. 1199 00:52:39,583 --> 00:52:41,750 - The reason for the different inflections is 1200 00:52:41,750 --> 00:52:45,250 just for that variety of before a shot, 1201 00:52:45,250 --> 00:52:47,541 after a shot, in the middle of a shot. 1202 00:52:47,541 --> 00:52:49,750 Pippen for three! 1203 00:52:49,750 --> 00:52:51,375 Pippen with the dunk! 1204 00:52:51,375 --> 00:52:54,041 Pippen with the monster jam! 1205 00:52:54,041 --> 00:52:57,833 Pippen, Pippen, Stockton, Stockton, Stockton! 1206 00:52:57,833 --> 00:53:00,125 - [Game] Rebound, Jams it in! 1207 00:53:01,583 --> 00:53:04,250 - And there used to be a game called Run and Gun by Konami 1208 00:53:04,250 --> 00:53:06,250 that was the first game that actually the camera work 1209 00:53:06,250 --> 00:53:08,125 seemed to like follow you down the court 1210 00:53:08,125 --> 00:53:09,583 I go down, I listened to that game, 1211 00:53:09,583 --> 00:53:12,791 and I hear the guy go, "Nice shot." 1212 00:53:12,791 --> 00:53:17,000 - [Game] Fakes him up, put it up, three, yes, good shot. 1213 00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:18,250 Way to go. 1214 00:53:18,250 --> 00:53:19,250 - What is this guy? 1215 00:53:19,250 --> 00:53:20,958 Is he medicated or something? 1216 00:53:20,958 --> 00:53:23,416 That's not how you call a basketball gam 1217 00:53:23,416 --> 00:53:25,250 I go down to the other end and hear, 1218 00:53:25,250 --> 00:53:27,125 "Get that stuff outta here, rejected!" 1219 00:53:27,125 --> 00:53:28,875 And I could feel the effect that my voice had 1220 00:53:28,875 --> 00:53:31,250 on that extra amping up of the situation 1221 00:53:31,250 --> 00:53:33,333 So sometimes I'd sneak up behind him, 1222 00:53:33,333 --> 00:53:35,291 guy would take a shot, and I'd go, "Ugly shot! 1223 00:53:35,291 --> 00:53:36,208 "Puts up a brick!" 1224 00:53:36,208 --> 00:53:37,958 or "Get that stuff outta here!" 1225 00:53:37,958 --> 00:53:39,083 He'd turn around and go, "Hey, you sound like the guy!" 1226 00:53:39,083 --> 00:53:41,125 And I'd go, "I am the guy, dude." 1227 00:53:44,125 --> 00:53:46,500 - Eugene Jarvis always told me, you know 1228 00:53:46,500 --> 00:53:48,125 make sure the player gets more powerful. 1229 00:53:48,125 --> 00:53:50,208 Never take something away from him. 1230 00:53:50,208 --> 00:53:52,750 But what if we, you know, put the player into a mode 1231 00:53:52,750 --> 00:53:54,791 where he's on fire and everything's a swish? 1232 00:53:54,791 --> 00:53:58,541 And we knew right away that there was a mechanic there 1233 00:53:58,541 --> 00:53:59,833 that made sense. 1234 00:53:59,833 --> 00:54:02,500 - And I was saying, "Oh, that's unrealistic. 1235 00:54:02,500 --> 00:54:05,500 "That's not cool, it's gonna be fantasy then. 1236 00:54:05,500 --> 00:54:07,291 "People aren't gonna take it seriously," or whatever. 1237 00:54:07,291 --> 00:54:08,541 And they're like, "No, no, it's video game. 1238 00:54:08,541 --> 00:54:10,000 "It's totally video game, it's totally cool. 1239 00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:11,583 "It's totally cool!" 1240 00:54:11,583 --> 00:54:13,125 And I'm all like [muttering] "It's not gonna be cool at all. 1241 00:54:13,125 --> 00:54:14,291 "Nobody's gonna like that." 1242 00:54:15,125 --> 00:54:17,125 - He said, I won't give you the art. 1243 00:54:17,125 --> 00:54:19,291 I won't give you flame art. 1244 00:54:19,291 --> 00:54:22,041 So I actually went back into SmashTV 1245 00:54:22,041 --> 00:54:26,791 and took the flame explosions, attached them to the ball, 1246 00:54:28,250 --> 00:54:31,250 and we started the Smoke Mode and the On Fire. 1247 00:54:31,250 --> 00:54:34,791 - First time that we had seen in the arcade, 1248 00:54:34,791 --> 00:54:37,250 and these kids who are playing the game already 1249 00:54:37,250 --> 00:54:40,708 for a couple weeks had seen, you know, On Fire, 1250 00:54:40,708 --> 00:54:43,250 and slamming and shattering the backboard 1251 00:54:45,583 --> 00:54:47,500 and the guy just went, "Ah!" 1252 00:54:47,500 --> 00:54:50,625 Raised his arms up in the air, "Oh, hell no!" 1253 00:54:50,625 --> 00:54:53,708 And ran around the arcade, inside. 1254 00:54:53,708 --> 00:54:55,875 He ran around four times. 1255 00:54:55,875 --> 00:54:57,375 Everybody screamed. 1256 00:54:57,375 --> 00:54:58,791 Everybody was like, "Ah!" 1257 00:54:58,791 --> 00:55:00,666 They're holding their heads like they just saw 1258 00:55:00,666 --> 00:55:02,583 the Second Coming. 1259 00:55:02,583 --> 00:55:04,416 And we were like looking at each other, like oh my God. 1260 00:55:04,416 --> 00:55:07,375 It's just such an iconic part of, 1261 00:55:07,375 --> 00:55:10,250 and just felt so good to see people get 1262 00:55:10,250 --> 00:55:11,916 that excited about something. 1263 00:55:11,916 --> 00:55:13,333 We're like, yeah, I think it's gonna be pretty cool. 1264 00:55:13,333 --> 00:55:15,958 - This is bad, man, this is bad! 1265 00:55:16,750 --> 00:55:19,333 [NBA Jam music] 1266 00:55:21,416 --> 00:55:23,041 - If you're playing against the computer 1267 00:55:23,041 --> 00:55:25,916 it's never going to allow you to get too far in front. 1268 00:55:25,916 --> 00:55:28,333 You'll start missing shots. 1269 00:55:28,333 --> 00:55:30,333 Or the computer will start missing shots a lot, 1270 00:55:30,333 --> 00:55:32,375 if the score's too far in front. 1271 00:55:32,375 --> 00:55:34,291 So it doesn't allow the scores to get too far apart, 1272 00:55:34,291 --> 00:55:35,625 and it keeps the excitement of, 1273 00:55:35,625 --> 00:55:37,250 oh, I can so overtake you, the last minute, 1274 00:55:37,250 --> 00:55:39,125 the last throw, I can win! 1275 00:55:39,125 --> 00:55:40,750 - If you're in the fourth quarter, 1276 00:55:40,750 --> 00:55:44,041 and you have, you know, just a few seconds left 1277 00:55:44,041 --> 00:55:45,750 and have an opportunity to tie the game, 1278 00:55:45,750 --> 00:55:47,291 to have it go into overtime, 1279 00:55:47,291 --> 00:55:50,541 and take a shot at the buzzer, 1280 00:55:50,541 --> 00:55:52,958 the chances are so much higher 1281 00:55:52,958 --> 00:55:54,541 from the half court line 1282 00:55:54,541 --> 00:55:57,416 than it would be from laying it up 1283 00:55:57,416 --> 00:55:59,125 at any other point in the game. 1284 00:55:59,125 --> 00:56:01,166 - Rubberbanding is, 1285 00:56:01,166 --> 00:56:03,958 I don't know if that was a Mark Turmell call, 1286 00:56:03,958 --> 00:56:05,083 or what the deal was, 1287 00:56:05,083 --> 00:56:07,250 but the rubberbanding in NBA Jam 1288 00:56:07,250 --> 00:56:09,250 and then later in NFL Blitz, and Showtim 1289 00:56:09,250 --> 00:56:10,375 and all that sort of stuff, 1290 00:56:11,541 --> 00:56:14,375 it's almost evil. 1291 00:56:14,375 --> 00:56:16,375 But also, it makes for really heightened moments 1292 00:56:16,375 --> 00:56:17,875 of like, oh man, we went to overtime again! 1293 00:56:17,875 --> 00:56:19,166 What are the odds! 1294 00:56:19,166 --> 00:56:20,958 Turns out the odds are pretty good. 1295 00:56:20,958 --> 00:56:24,125 - [Game] At the buzzer, he scores! 1296 00:56:24,125 --> 00:56:28,166 - We were getting calls about games that were broken. 1297 00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:31,250 I said, "What?" 1298 00:56:31,250 --> 00:56:32,875 Because that's one of the things, 1299 00:56:32,875 --> 00:56:36,125 you put a game on test, you know, it's gotta work. 1300 00:56:36,125 --> 00:56:38,500 And to have a game that's not working, 1301 00:56:38,500 --> 00:56:40,583 it's like the height of stupidity. 1302 00:56:40,583 --> 00:56:42,041 - The game was supposedly down. 1303 00:56:42,041 --> 00:56:42,791 We said, "What the heck's going on here? 1304 00:56:42,791 --> 00:56:44,416 So we go out there, 1305 00:56:44,416 --> 00:56:45,791 and you couldn't put any more quarters in the game. 1306 00:56:45,791 --> 00:56:48,416 - It had accumulated so many quarters, 1307 00:56:48,416 --> 00:56:50,208 it had jammed the coin mech 1308 00:56:50,208 --> 00:56:52,708 and you couldn't put any more quarters i 1309 00:56:52,708 --> 00:56:53,958 - [Announcer] Unheard of collections. 1310 00:56:53,958 --> 00:56:55,708 At all of our test locations, 1311 00:56:55,708 --> 00:57:02,375 NBA Jam is collecting between 124 and 167 percent 1312 00:57:02,375 --> 00:57:05,583 of what Mortal Kombat did during its first six weeks. 1313 00:57:05,583 --> 00:57:08,916 - Jurassic Park was the biggest film at the time, 1314 00:57:08,916 --> 00:57:11,250 and it was breaking all kinds of earning records. 1315 00:57:11,250 --> 00:57:14,083 It made $350 million. 1316 00:57:14,083 --> 00:57:16,375 And that was a milestone that people said 1317 00:57:16,375 --> 00:57:20,291 we can't believe it, it's incomprehensible. 1318 00:57:20,291 --> 00:57:22,916 And here comes NBA Jam, and Mark said, I said, 1319 00:57:22,916 --> 00:57:25,750 "Can you tell me about how popular this really is?" 1320 00:57:25,750 --> 00:57:27,000 "I can tell you this. 1321 00:57:28,458 --> 00:57:31,500 "NBA Jam made a billion dollars." 1322 00:57:31,500 --> 00:57:33,250 And I said, "In quarters?" 1323 00:57:33,250 --> 00:57:37,541 - Anybody that just liked games and liked sports 1324 00:57:37,541 --> 00:57:40,041 and walked around a mall would hear and see that game, 1325 00:57:40,041 --> 00:57:41,541 because in malls, they were like arcades 1326 00:57:41,541 --> 00:57:43,250 and there was always groups of people around. 1327 00:57:43,250 --> 00:57:44,125 And you're like, what's that? 1328 00:57:44,416 --> 00:57:45,791 - And when people were playing together, 1329 00:57:45,791 --> 00:57:47,250 they're probably more likely to keep playing, 1330 00:57:47,250 --> 00:57:49,083 because you can't just walk off from your friend 1331 00:57:49,083 --> 00:57:50,291 that you're playing with. 1332 00:57:50,291 --> 00:57:51,875 - Whereas some games are abstract, 1333 00:57:51,875 --> 00:57:53,375 or some people just don't want to blast aliens, 1334 00:57:53,375 --> 00:57:55,125 or they don't want to fight other people 1335 00:57:55,125 --> 00:57:57,583 the idea of, it's like basketball, 1336 00:57:57,583 --> 00:58:00,375 but without all of those pesky rules. 1337 00:58:00,375 --> 00:58:03,958 That becomes a very appealing thing to people 1338 00:58:03,958 --> 00:58:05,291 that would be into sports, 1339 00:58:05,291 --> 00:58:07,416 but wouldn't be caught dead in an arcade 1340 00:58:07,416 --> 00:58:09,541 But here, this is the perfect gateway. 1341 00:58:09,541 --> 00:58:12,791 [game announcer yelling] 1342 00:58:17,125 --> 00:58:19,750 John Tobias - The home versions of the early Mortal Kombat games 1343 00:58:19,750 --> 00:58:21,375 were released by Acclaim. 1344 00:58:21,708 --> 00:58:24,208 - Mortal Kombat! 1345 00:58:24,208 --> 00:58:26,291 - I remember seeing TV ads for the games 1346 00:58:26,291 --> 00:58:30,333 that partly fueled the kind of concern 1347 00:58:30,333 --> 00:58:32,500 that parents had about Mortal Kombat, 1348 00:58:32,500 --> 00:58:35,333 because it always emphasized gangs of like young kids 1349 00:58:35,333 --> 00:58:38,583 running around streets yelling, "Mortal Kombat!" 1350 00:58:38,583 --> 00:58:39,750 - Mortal Kombat! 1351 00:58:41,250 --> 00:58:42,875 - I think parents felt there was a revolution 1352 00:58:42,875 --> 00:58:44,958 about to happen, because that's how it was portrayed 1353 00:58:44,958 --> 00:58:46,875 in the marketing materials. 1354 00:58:46,875 --> 00:58:49,625 That somehow their kids were involved in this weird thing, 1355 00:58:49,625 --> 00:58:50,958 and suddenly they turn around 1356 00:58:50,958 --> 00:58:53,291 and it'd be like a 1984 kind of situatio 1357 00:58:53,291 --> 00:58:55,416 where all of the parents would be thrown into jail 1358 00:58:55,416 --> 00:58:56,500 and kids would run amuck. 1359 00:58:59,416 --> 00:59:01,791 - You know, the home games, when they came out, 1360 00:59:01,791 --> 00:59:06,750 they were marketed, I think, to a younger audience. 1361 00:59:06,750 --> 00:59:08,041 - You know, when we filmed it, 1362 00:59:08,041 --> 00:59:09,083 we didn't film it for a home version. 1363 00:59:09,083 --> 00:59:10,333 We filmed it for arcade. 1364 00:59:10,333 --> 00:59:12,958 And who is, you know, at the arcade? 1365 00:59:12,958 --> 00:59:15,000 Kids with their own money. 1366 00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:16,291 - Actually, when I think back 1367 00:59:16,291 --> 00:59:17,916 of all of the time I spent in arcades, 1368 00:59:17,916 --> 00:59:19,375 I don't remember seeing too many moms walking around. 1369 00:59:19,375 --> 00:59:21,791 - [Reporter] After a $10 million advertising campaign, 1370 00:59:21,791 --> 00:59:24,708 Mortal Kombat, debuting in home video today, 1371 00:59:24,708 --> 00:59:28,750 is expected to sell two million copies at $50 a pop, 1372 00:59:28,750 --> 00:59:30,708 a horrifying possibility for parents 1373 00:59:30,708 --> 00:59:32,625 who can't believe the game makers are fantasizing 1374 00:59:32,625 --> 00:59:35,041 about decapitation and murder. 1375 00:59:35,041 --> 00:59:40,041 - So now moms and dads are looking at their kids 1376 00:59:40,041 --> 00:59:44,708 playing this game, and they see heads being decapitated, 1377 00:59:44,708 --> 00:59:47,041 skulls being pulled off of bodies. 1378 00:59:47,041 --> 00:59:48,250 - I don't know think we'll have this at home. 1379 00:59:48,250 --> 00:59:49,833 - You don't think so? 1380 00:59:49,833 --> 00:59:51,166 - No, they're too violent. - You look a little startled. 1381 00:59:51,166 --> 00:59:52,583 - Yeah, it's a little too violent, I think. 1382 00:59:52,583 --> 00:59:53,791 - That's pretty bad. 1383 00:59:53,791 --> 00:59:55,583 That's just plain gross. 1384 00:59:55,583 --> 00:59:57,291 - I'm sure moms were walking through the living room 1385 00:59:57,291 --> 00:59:58,958 and looking at the game that their 1386 01:00:00,541 --> 01:00:04,125 kids were playing, and writing a letter to their Congressman 1387 01:00:04,125 --> 01:00:06,541 like, "I bought Mortal Kombat thinking 1388 01:00:06,541 --> 01:00:08,000 "it was a fun fighting game." 1389 01:00:09,541 --> 01:00:11,666 - It's crazy to me how some people don't see the humor 1390 01:00:11,666 --> 01:00:13,208 in Mortal Kombat. 1391 01:00:13,208 --> 01:00:15,291 I mean, one of the taglines is Toasty! 1392 01:00:15,291 --> 01:00:16,875 What game does that? 1393 01:00:16,875 --> 01:00:20,625 I think that humor was essential to its success, 1394 01:00:20,625 --> 01:00:23,333 because without it, I think it just would have been 1395 01:00:23,333 --> 01:00:26,000 almost violent for the sake of being violent. 1396 01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:28,250 - Seeing Mortal Kombat held up as a scapegoat 1397 01:00:28,250 --> 01:00:31,708 for societal ills was a direct parallel 1398 01:00:31,708 --> 01:00:33,250 to what rock-and-roll had gone through 1399 01:00:33,250 --> 01:00:35,000 through the '50s through the '70s, 1400 01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:37,500 what comic books had done in the '50s. 1401 01:00:37,500 --> 01:00:40,125 It was the latest thing for the previous generation 1402 01:00:40,125 --> 01:00:43,541 to blame society's problems on and say, 1403 01:00:43,541 --> 01:00:45,750 "These kids today, they're gonna ruin the world." 1404 01:00:45,750 --> 01:00:47,166 - [Reporter] Children of different ages. 1405 01:00:47,166 --> 01:00:48,625 And that is exactly what-- 1406 01:00:48,625 --> 01:00:53,083 - Many companies would shudder when they see 1407 01:00:53,083 --> 01:00:57,000 their product talked about in an unfavorable light 1408 01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:58,541 by a US senator. 1409 01:00:58,541 --> 01:01:02,041 - The game narrator instructs the player to finish, 1410 01:01:02,041 --> 01:01:03,708 and I quote, "finish his opponent." 1411 01:01:03,708 --> 01:01:06,583 The player may then choose a method of murder, 1412 01:01:06,583 --> 01:01:09,291 ranging from ripping the heart out 1413 01:01:09,291 --> 01:01:12,250 to pulling off the head of the opponent 1414 01:01:12,250 --> 01:01:14,250 with spinal cord attached. 1415 01:01:14,250 --> 01:01:16,583 - I personally delighted in it, 1416 01:01:16,583 --> 01:01:21,583 because we saw a clear effect every time someone 1417 01:01:21,583 --> 01:01:26,208 was making a big deal in the press about Mortal Kombat, 1418 01:01:26,208 --> 01:01:30,208 it was on TV, we saw the sales in the home product jump up. 1419 01:01:30,208 --> 01:01:32,541 And if we happened to have something in the arcade, 1420 01:01:32,541 --> 01:01:35,875 you know, it was probably also seeing the benefit of a jump. 1421 01:01:35,875 --> 01:01:37,958 - And we hope very much that you step ba 1422 01:01:37,958 --> 01:01:40,416 and take into account 1423 01:01:40,416 --> 01:01:44,000 our counter-responsibilities as citizens here, 1424 01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:45,916 and not only as people who are employed 1425 01:01:45,916 --> 01:01:48,416 to maximize profits. 1426 01:01:48,416 --> 01:01:53,125 - Then you had the issue of Nintendo and Sega. 1427 01:01:55,958 --> 01:01:57,958 - We were starting to encroach 1428 01:01:57,958 --> 01:02:00,375 on Nintendo's share of market. 1429 01:02:00,375 --> 01:02:03,750 And one of the reasonswas that we were appealing 1430 01:02:03,750 --> 01:02:05,375 to an older age group. 1431 01:02:05,375 --> 01:02:08,750 And part of that older age appeal became Mortal Kombat 1432 01:02:08,750 --> 01:02:10,375 in its original form. 1433 01:02:10,708 --> 01:02:12,250 - the Nintendo version was very neutered 1434 01:02:13,333 --> 01:02:15,458 The blood was turned into like a sweat. 1435 01:02:16,916 --> 01:02:18,500 - People who played it knew what was happening. 1436 01:02:18,500 --> 01:02:20,500 So I thought that was a silly thing to do 1437 01:02:20,500 --> 01:02:22,958 And I thought it detracted from the game 1438 01:02:22,958 --> 01:02:25,208 So I was committed that we were going to show 1439 01:02:25,208 --> 01:02:29,000 all the blood that existed in the arcade version 1440 01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:30,416 of Mortal Kombat. 1441 01:02:30,416 --> 01:02:31,583 - It had that blood code. 1442 01:02:31,583 --> 01:02:33,541 It had two codes. 1443 01:02:33,541 --> 01:02:37,375 It had the A-B-A-C-A-B-B, the main blood code, 1444 01:02:37,375 --> 01:02:38,916 and then it had the builder code, 1445 01:02:38,916 --> 01:02:40,416 down-up-left-left-A-right-down 1446 01:02:40,416 --> 01:02:42,041 for the cheat menu. 1447 01:02:42,041 --> 01:02:44,291 And then you could get Reptile and do all this other stuff. 1448 01:02:44,291 --> 01:02:48,916 And yeah, so the Genesis version was the version, 1449 01:02:48,916 --> 01:02:51,833 as far as anyone I knew was concerned. 1450 01:02:51,833 --> 01:02:54,375 This NES version was just a wreck. 1451 01:02:54,375 --> 01:02:56,541 - We wanted to be different. 1452 01:02:56,541 --> 01:02:58,083 We wanted to be edgy. 1453 01:02:58,083 --> 01:03:00,416 We wanted to make the point that we weren't 1454 01:03:00,416 --> 01:03:04,041 this nice, clean, young kids company that Nintendo was. 1455 01:03:04,041 --> 01:03:07,250 - Sega used the slogan like, we do what Nintendon't. 1456 01:03:07,250 --> 01:03:08,541 Nintendo would never do this 1457 01:03:08,541 --> 01:03:09,875 because they're so family-friendly. 1458 01:03:09,875 --> 01:03:11,083 But we do other things. 1459 01:03:11,083 --> 01:03:12,416 And there's something like 1460 01:03:12,416 --> 01:03:14,625 really delightfully salacious about that 1461 01:03:14,625 --> 01:03:18,958 - We outsold the Nintendo version by about five to 10 times 1462 01:03:18,958 --> 01:03:22,625 more than what sold on the Nintendo system. 1463 01:03:22,625 --> 01:03:24,500 - Will you ever draw the line where you say 1464 01:03:24,500 --> 01:03:25,041 it's too violent? 1465 01:03:26,916 --> 01:03:28,875 - Yeah, there's, of course, we're gonna draw the line, 1466 01:03:28,875 --> 01:03:29,666 sure, yeah. 1467 01:03:31,083 --> 01:03:35,625 [metallic slicing] [body parts plopping] 1468 01:03:36,958 --> 01:03:39,625 - [Game] Scorpion wins, fatality. 1469 01:03:42,250 --> 01:03:45,000 - There's an ad for a poster in the Attract Mode 1470 01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:46,666 for Revolution X. 1471 01:03:46,666 --> 01:03:49,583 And since playing through that game start to finish, 1472 01:03:49,583 --> 01:03:52,708 I've been one button click away about four times 1473 01:03:52,708 --> 01:03:54,541 from buying that poster on Ebay. 1474 01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:57,000 It's got the girl with the New World Order, 1475 01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:59,791 no was it, the New Order? 1476 01:04:00,583 --> 01:04:02,041 But yeah, that game, 1477 01:04:02,500 --> 01:04:04,333 I would really like to know, 1478 01:04:04,333 --> 01:04:05,958 I'm looking forward to watching this finished product, 1479 01:04:05,958 --> 01:04:08,208 because I hope you have the story about how that game 1480 01:04:08,208 --> 01:04:11,500 came to be in there, because...what the hell? 1481 01:04:17,750 --> 01:04:21,000 [George Petro] - I got this speech two times from Neil 1482 01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:24,875 It was like, "Okay, you can do whatever you want, but," 1483 01:04:24,875 --> 01:04:28,083 [laughs] "it comes from these three choices, 1484 01:04:28,083 --> 01:04:31,541 "sports, driving, fighting, or gun. 1485 01:04:31,541 --> 01:04:33,791 "You can't do sports, you can't do driving, 1486 01:04:33,791 --> 01:04:34,958 "and you can't do fighting. 1487 01:04:34,958 --> 01:04:37,125 "So take your pick." 1488 01:04:37,125 --> 01:04:39,333 It was, so I guess we're doing another gun game. 1489 01:04:39,708 --> 01:04:42,500 It was supposed to be Generation X with Public Enemy. 1490 01:04:42,500 --> 01:04:45,541 That was the original concept, yeah. 1491 01:04:45,541 --> 01:04:47,333 So two things happened. 1492 01:04:47,333 --> 01:04:50,250 Number one, we got a letter from, I believe it was Marvel 1493 01:04:50,250 --> 01:04:53,000 that said, "We own Generation X, so back off." 1494 01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:56,958 - I remember George being very, very angry about that. 1495 01:04:58,500 --> 01:05:00,958 He wanted to put into Generation I remember him saying, 1496 01:05:00,958 --> 01:05:02,625 "You know what, I'm so pissed at this, I'm so angry, 1497 01:05:02,625 --> 01:05:04,541 "I think we should put some sort of superhero 1498 01:05:04,541 --> 01:05:06,958 "all in yellow spandex that you get to shoot a lot." 1499 01:05:06,958 --> 01:05:09,041 - The second was is Public Enemy, 1500 01:05:09,041 --> 01:05:10,250 who would have nothing to do with us. 1501 01:05:10,250 --> 01:05:11,916 So, don't know why. 1502 01:05:11,916 --> 01:05:16,541 So we had to really like, okay, strike one and two. 1503 01:05:16,541 --> 01:05:17,916 So what are we going to do now? 1504 01:05:17,916 --> 01:05:19,500 So we changed the name to Revolution X, 1505 01:05:19,500 --> 01:05:22,250 and we started thinking really hard about who we would have. 1506 01:05:22,250 --> 01:05:24,000 We knew we wanted music in the game. 1507 01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:28,750 - Initial premise was that we were going to get bands, 1508 01:05:28,750 --> 01:05:30,875 plural, together, 1509 01:05:32,625 --> 01:05:34,000 we do country-western 1510 01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:35,625 do hard rock. 1511 01:05:35,625 --> 01:05:38,750 Do this, do this, and it was just like, seriously? 1512 01:05:40,541 --> 01:05:42,625 - Our marketing person, Roger Sharpe, God love him, said, 1513 01:05:42,625 --> 01:05:46,291 "Jack, how would you like to go out 1514 01:05:46,291 --> 01:05:48,125 "and speak with Aerosmith? 1515 01:05:49,750 --> 01:05:51,083 "What do you think of Aerosmith?" 1516 01:05:51,083 --> 01:05:53,625 And I'm like, my God, Aerosmith is awesome. 1517 01:05:53,625 --> 01:05:55,708 And I loved their music. 1518 01:05:55,708 --> 01:05:58,250 I bought their music with my own money since I was a kid. 1519 01:05:58,416 --> 01:05:59,541 - So we got in front of a camera 1520 01:05:59,541 --> 01:06:01,083 and just like made our pitch. 1521 01:06:01,083 --> 01:06:02,583 Jack was really good. 1522 01:06:02,583 --> 01:06:04,916 I was horrible on the pitch. 1523 01:06:04,916 --> 01:06:07,041 It was like, we're super pasty white. 1524 01:06:07,041 --> 01:06:09,083 And we're just like, hey, we're from Chicago 1525 01:06:09,083 --> 01:06:10,250 and make video games. 1526 01:06:10,250 --> 01:06:12,541 We wanna use you in a video game. 1527 01:06:12,541 --> 01:06:15,750 And I go, "This is gonna go zero far." 1528 01:06:15,750 --> 01:06:17,708 - Hi guys, I'm Jack Haeger. 1529 01:06:17,708 --> 01:06:19,375 - Hi, George Petro. 1530 01:06:19,375 --> 01:06:21,708 - And we're from Williams Bally Midway in Chicago, 1531 01:06:21,708 --> 01:06:25,375 makers of exciting and new pinball and video games. 1532 01:06:25,375 --> 01:06:28,041 There were things I heard on the radio at that time 1533 01:06:28,041 --> 01:06:30,750 that were dealing with the impact of music 1534 01:06:30,750 --> 01:06:35,500 on youth culture and how it literally saved lives 1535 01:06:36,958 --> 01:06:40,583 and gave meaning to every generation. 1536 01:06:40,583 --> 01:06:42,333 They can't go to their parents, 1537 01:06:42,333 --> 01:06:43,958 because their parents didn't grow up with computers. 1538 01:06:43,958 --> 01:06:45,375 They don't know what's happening in the world 1539 01:06:45,375 --> 01:06:47,250 or what's gonna happen in the next 20 years. 1540 01:06:47,250 --> 01:06:49,125 It's a real difficult time to grow up. 1541 01:06:49,125 --> 01:06:54,625 But the one stable thing that has always kept kids sane 1542 01:06:54,958 --> 01:06:56,625 is their music. 1543 01:06:56,625 --> 01:06:59,083 - You know, you're this youth that's getting like oppressed, 1544 01:06:59,083 --> 01:07:01,250 and Aerosmith becomes your guiding light 1545 01:07:01,250 --> 01:07:03,333 They leave clues all through the world 1546 01:07:03,333 --> 01:07:05,333 and they leave these videos. 1547 01:07:05,333 --> 01:07:08,000 You just go to see them at an underground club. 1548 01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:09,500 You get right close to the stage. 1549 01:07:09,500 --> 01:07:11,125 Aerosmith's jamming. 1550 01:07:11,125 --> 01:07:13,291 All of the sudden, these New Order troops come on the stage 1551 01:07:13,291 --> 01:07:15,291 and push Aerosmith off of the stage. 1552 01:07:15,291 --> 01:07:17,000 And it's like, what happened, you know, 1553 01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:18,625 and you guys are like, whoa, come on, 1554 01:07:18,625 --> 01:07:19,958 you know, get away from me. 1555 01:07:19,958 --> 01:07:21,500 And you decide, hey, I'm gonna fight this 1556 01:07:21,500 --> 01:07:23,250 So you use your gun, you're shooting everybody. 1557 01:07:23,250 --> 01:07:26,791 So we did it, we wrapped up the video tape, 1558 01:07:26,791 --> 01:07:28,125 sent it to their management. 1559 01:07:28,125 --> 01:07:30,208 And like a week later, they called, they go, 1560 01:07:30,208 --> 01:07:31,625 "Yeah, the band saw it, they love it. 1561 01:07:31,625 --> 01:07:32,958 "They wanna do it, they're in." 1562 01:07:32,958 --> 01:07:35,958 So we, um, we're like, what? 1563 01:07:35,958 --> 01:07:37,875 - Aerosmith has always been one of those bands 1564 01:07:37,875 --> 01:07:41,083 that was the most eager to take digital risks. 1565 01:07:41,083 --> 01:07:44,250 They did a game for PC 1566 01:07:45,625 --> 01:07:48,291 that was a virtual guitar, early, early on. 1567 01:07:48,291 --> 01:07:49,916 This was way before Guitar Hero 1568 01:07:49,916 --> 01:07:52,750 or any of the other guitar abstraction music games. 1569 01:07:52,750 --> 01:07:54,916 So when Revolution X became announced, 1570 01:07:54,916 --> 01:07:56,916 all of my friends were like, "Wow, Aerosmith!" 1571 01:07:56,916 --> 01:07:57,708 I'm like, this is what they do. 1572 01:07:57,708 --> 01:07:59,250 They were the risk takers. 1573 01:07:59,250 --> 01:08:00,708 They thought digital entertainment was fun. 1574 01:08:00,708 --> 01:08:02,916 That seemed like a perfect fit to me. 1575 01:08:02,916 --> 01:08:05,708 Besides, I'm sure they looked at Journey back in the day 1576 01:08:05,708 --> 01:08:06,875 and said, "We can do that." 1577 01:08:06,875 --> 01:08:09,250 [video game music] 1578 01:08:09,250 --> 01:08:10,833 [George Petro] They showed up. 1579 01:08:10,833 --> 01:08:12,291 We got this big bus that they came from the airport in. 1580 01:08:12,291 --> 01:08:14,291 Steven Tyler was the first guy off the bus. 1581 01:08:14,291 --> 01:08:15,875 He had watched everything. 1582 01:08:15,875 --> 01:08:18,333 - There's Steven Tyler up there, 1583 01:08:18,333 --> 01:08:21,375 and George is just saying, "Do this and do that." 1584 01:08:21,375 --> 01:08:23,583 I mean, he's doing whatever we ask. 1585 01:08:23,583 --> 01:08:24,416 - [Director] Action. 1586 01:08:24,416 --> 01:08:26,083 - Hey, come on in. 1587 01:08:26,083 --> 01:08:29,333 You got your wings, welcome home. 1588 01:08:29,333 --> 01:08:30,625 - Yeah, we didn't have a drum set, 1589 01:08:30,625 --> 01:08:32,541 because I remember the drummer had to air drum. 1590 01:08:32,541 --> 01:08:35,416 And we said, we're gonna build your drum set digitally. 1591 01:08:35,416 --> 01:08:37,500 Remember where all your drums are, so, 1592 01:08:37,500 --> 01:08:38,875 and he would play them, because I mean, 1593 01:08:38,875 --> 01:08:40,708 he's a professional drummer, so he just. 1594 01:08:40,708 --> 01:08:43,500 [Aerosmith music] 1595 01:08:48,333 --> 01:08:50,125 - [Director] Cut! Cut! 1596 01:08:51,375 --> 01:08:54,083 - We had a whole looping session with the band. 1597 01:08:54,083 --> 01:08:56,291 So we would take all the, 1598 01:08:56,291 --> 01:08:58,000 we took all the footage, 1599 01:08:58,000 --> 01:08:59,541 and then we sent it to the sound department 1600 01:08:59,541 --> 01:09:01,000 and they brought up the footage. 1601 01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:02,875 - This is all like combat stuff, 1602 01:09:02,875 --> 01:09:06,875 I mean, like heat of the battle kind of, "No, no, no!" 1603 01:09:06,875 --> 01:09:08,875 Stuff like that, so you know, pretty high energy level, 1604 01:09:08,875 --> 01:09:10,958 and that kind of yelling stuff. 1605 01:09:10,958 --> 01:09:12,500 About that long, too. 1606 01:09:12,500 --> 01:09:14,375 Give me just three or four of them. 1607 01:09:14,375 --> 01:09:18,625 - No, no, no, no! 1608 01:09:18,625 --> 01:09:20,208 - [Man] That's great. 1609 01:09:20,208 --> 01:09:20,750 Can you give me one that's like really deep in your throat, 1610 01:09:20,750 --> 01:09:22,291 like a "No!" 1611 01:09:22,291 --> 01:09:23,541 - No! 1612 01:09:23,541 --> 01:09:24,625 - [Man] That's cool, all right. 1613 01:09:24,625 --> 01:09:25,541 - Awesome. 1614 01:09:25,541 --> 01:09:26,583 - [Man] Excellent. 1615 01:09:26,583 --> 01:09:27,583 - Excellent. 1616 01:09:27,583 --> 01:09:28,500 - [Man] All right! 1617 01:09:28,500 --> 01:09:29,791 - All right. 1618 01:09:29,791 --> 01:09:31,250 - [Man] Rock and roll! 1619 01:09:31,250 --> 01:09:32,625 - I'm not gonna say that. 1620 01:09:32,625 --> 01:09:33,500 - [Man] Okay, I'm sorry. 1621 01:09:33,500 --> 01:09:35,125 That's just too much. 1622 01:09:35,125 --> 01:09:36,958 - I think, oh, like rock and roll, it's like, come on. 1623 01:09:36,958 --> 01:09:38,875 - [Man] Okay, fair enough. 1624 01:09:38,875 --> 01:09:39,791 ♪ Sweet 1625 01:09:39,791 --> 01:09:41,208 - These guys are maggots. 1626 01:09:41,208 --> 01:09:43,291 They're putting chemicals in all our foo 1627 01:09:43,291 --> 01:09:44,625 ♪ Emotion 1628 01:09:44,625 --> 01:09:46,791 - Aerosmith looks like they had half an hour 1629 01:09:46,791 --> 01:09:49,291 to come in and sit down and go like, 1630 01:09:49,291 --> 01:09:51,916 you know, it's just like, "Yeah, all right!" 1631 01:09:51,916 --> 01:09:54,208 And then the keys fly out of the screen. 1632 01:09:54,208 --> 01:09:55,375 You get the videotape in put it in. 1633 01:09:55,375 --> 01:09:57,000 Here's Steven Tyler going like, 1634 01:09:57,000 --> 01:09:59,708 "You did good, now go do this." 1635 01:09:59,708 --> 01:10:03,541 That stuff is so corny, but like kind of amazing. 1636 01:10:03,541 --> 01:10:09,541 - It's a gun game, but what if the gun shot compact discs. 1637 01:10:09,833 --> 01:10:13,500 And it's a crazy idea, I know, makes little sense. 1638 01:10:13,500 --> 01:10:16,958 - The sound of a CD launching like a grenade launcher, 1639 01:10:18,500 --> 01:10:19,791 [mimics shooting] 1640 01:10:19,791 --> 01:10:21,958 like that is part of the core experience to me. 1641 01:10:21,958 --> 01:10:23,416 And I can listen to that all day. 1642 01:10:23,416 --> 01:10:26,291 - So much of the discussion of should it be 1643 01:10:26,291 --> 01:10:28,000 Revolution X: Music as a Weapon 1644 01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:29,791 or Revolution X: Music, 1645 01:10:32,208 --> 01:10:35,041 was it Music as a Weapon or Music Is the Weapon? I think 1646 01:10:35,041 --> 01:10:38,000 There was this humongous amount of email 1647 01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:39,458 going backwards and forwards about whether it should be 1648 01:10:39,458 --> 01:10:40,291 Music as a Weapon. 1649 01:10:40,291 --> 01:10:41,916 Who the hell cares? 1650 01:10:41,916 --> 01:10:44,583 - Unfortunately, people have come to use Revolution X 1651 01:10:44,583 --> 01:10:46,166 as a punchline. 1652 01:10:46,166 --> 01:10:50,000 I still unironically like it [laughs]. 1653 01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:51,416 - It doesn't match up to T2. 1654 01:10:51,416 --> 01:10:53,041 It just didn't have the, 1655 01:10:53,041 --> 01:10:55,375 T2, who had so much momentum because of what it was, 1656 01:10:55,375 --> 01:10:57,166 the movie, the robots. 1657 01:10:57,166 --> 01:10:58,916 You know, Revolution X was just kind of our, 1658 01:10:58,916 --> 01:11:00,583 you know, our sort of creation. 1659 01:11:00,583 --> 01:11:01,583 - We had this thing where we were supposed to take 1660 01:11:01,583 --> 01:11:03,416 a quarter every 45 seconds. 1661 01:11:03,416 --> 01:11:04,416 That was what you were aiming to do 1662 01:11:04,416 --> 01:11:05,958 with these arcade games. 1663 01:11:05,958 --> 01:11:08,125 NBA Jam and Mortal Kombat did that, actually. 1664 01:11:08,125 --> 01:11:10,041 But most of the other games didn't. 1665 01:11:10,041 --> 01:11:12,625 And you ended up having to try and make story games 1666 01:11:12,625 --> 01:11:15,208 really, really difficult to be constantly taking money. 1667 01:11:15,208 --> 01:11:16,541 Well, there's only so much difficulty 1668 01:11:16,541 --> 01:11:18,916 that someone's going to do to pay for it once, 1669 01:11:18,916 --> 01:11:19,958 because you play through once 1670 01:11:19,958 --> 01:11:20,875 and it costs you an arm and a leg, 1671 01:11:20,875 --> 01:11:21,791 and you don't wanna do it again. 1672 01:11:21,791 --> 01:11:23,041 - But the game just didn't earn. 1673 01:11:23,041 --> 01:11:24,583 I mean, it's all about the earnings. 1674 01:11:24,791 --> 01:11:26,208 It always is about the cash box. 1675 01:11:26,208 --> 01:11:28,500 How does the cash box, is it filled or isn't it filled? 1676 01:11:28,500 --> 01:11:29,791 What's my return on investment? 1677 01:11:29,791 --> 01:11:32,250 I paid 4,000 or $5,000 for a game. 1678 01:11:32,250 --> 01:11:33,708 I would expect the operators are looking 1679 01:11:33,708 --> 01:11:34,666 for a little return on their investment 1680 01:11:34,666 --> 01:11:35,958 in six to nine months. 1681 01:11:36,166 --> 01:11:38,583 - We all realized that we bit off a lot 1682 01:11:38,583 --> 01:11:43,333 in combining such major talent with a cinematic experience. 1683 01:11:45,416 --> 01:11:49,125 And flying by the seat of our pants game design 1684 01:11:49,125 --> 01:11:51,958 wasn't going to hack it in the future. 1685 01:11:51,958 --> 01:11:53,375 - As video games are moving towards movies, 1686 01:11:53,375 --> 01:11:55,000 this is definitely a step in the right direction. 1687 01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:57,291 That's what I think is different. 1688 01:11:57,291 --> 01:12:00,166 It's history, man, history in the making 1689 01:12:00,166 --> 01:12:02,250 - One thing that I think really sunk it home 1690 01:12:02,250 --> 01:12:04,958 for a lot of these guys who were still at Midway 1691 01:12:04,958 --> 01:12:06,625 was that Eugene Jarvis, 1692 01:12:06,625 --> 01:12:08,625 who used to be one of their fellow coworkers, 1693 01:12:08,625 --> 01:12:10,708 had left Midway. 1694 01:12:10,708 --> 01:12:14,125 And I think that kind of put in each of their minds 1695 01:12:14,125 --> 01:12:19,000 that there's opportunities for their talent. 1696 01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:23,500 - At one point, we were contacted by Universal Studios. 1697 01:12:25,500 --> 01:12:27,958 - They wanted to spin a story around this new thing 1698 01:12:27,958 --> 01:12:30,541 called GameWorks that they were trying to start off. 1699 01:12:30,541 --> 01:12:32,250 - [Announcer] GameWorks, 1700 01:12:32,250 --> 01:12:34,250 the ultimate entertainment destination. 1701 01:12:34,250 --> 01:12:36,625 Games, drinks, music, and food. 1702 01:12:36,625 --> 01:12:38,125 - And so they were looking for people to develop 1703 01:12:38,125 --> 01:12:41,958 their location-based arcade game. 1704 01:12:41,958 --> 01:12:43,583 - So we go on this ridiculous trip 1705 01:12:43,583 --> 01:12:46,416 where the Universal jet that Steven Spielberg flies on 1706 01:12:46,416 --> 01:12:48,041 is showing up at Midway Airport, 1707 01:12:48,041 --> 01:12:51,000 and we're all to get on it and like fly out to, 1708 01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:52,666 fly out to California. 1709 01:12:52,666 --> 01:12:56,583 And it was, it was the best experience ever. 1710 01:12:56,583 --> 01:12:58,750 Number one, it turns out you can get to LA in like two hours 1711 01:12:58,750 --> 01:13:01,041 if you fly really fast. 1712 01:13:02,125 --> 01:13:04,125 We meet with the president of Universal. 1713 01:13:04,125 --> 01:13:06,375 We have lunch with him in the commissary 1714 01:13:06,375 --> 01:13:09,125 Like, here's all these goofy video game guys. 1715 01:13:09,125 --> 01:13:12,250 - So I was usually the guy that would have the balls 1716 01:13:12,250 --> 01:13:14,416 to like propose some numbers, 1717 01:13:14,416 --> 01:13:16,541 or you know, paint the picture. 1718 01:13:16,541 --> 01:13:18,708 - It was just the epitome of Mark, 1719 01:13:18,708 --> 01:13:20,958 just throwing out these huge numbers 1720 01:13:20,958 --> 01:13:23,375 that they're gonna demand. 1721 01:13:23,375 --> 01:13:26,375 And it was fun, because it was like this confidence 1722 01:13:26,375 --> 01:13:30,583 with these guys that they realize they were the value. 1723 01:13:30,583 --> 01:13:34,708 - I remember hearing all of the rumors of competitors 1724 01:13:34,708 --> 01:13:36,875 courting our guys. 1725 01:13:36,875 --> 01:13:39,291 - Some of the guys would be getting comments, 1726 01:13:39,291 --> 01:13:42,250 innuendos, and remarks from management 1727 01:13:42,250 --> 01:13:45,750 about your obligation to the employee agreements. 1728 01:13:45,750 --> 01:13:47,250 Well, what would happen if they left. 1729 01:13:47,250 --> 01:13:50,000 - If they were gonna screw us and leave, 1730 01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,625 we're gonna sue the crap out of them, 1731 01:13:52,625 --> 01:13:56,416 because we created this contractual relationship, 1732 01:13:56,416 --> 01:13:59,291 which prevented them from working for a competitor 1733 01:13:59,291 --> 01:14:02,291 for at least a year after they left us. 1734 01:14:02,291 --> 01:14:04,875 - And it was more about making your life difficult 1735 01:14:04,875 --> 01:14:06,708 than it was about the clause actually being legal. 1736 01:14:06,708 --> 01:14:08,000 It was about suing you 1737 01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:09,583 and you having to defend yourself, 1738 01:14:09,583 --> 01:14:11,083 and him having more money than you 1739 01:14:11,083 --> 01:14:12,125 and being able to outspend you with lawyers, 1740 01:14:12,125 --> 01:14:13,333 just making your life difficult. 1741 01:14:13,333 --> 01:14:15,375 So other employers didn't want to hire you. 1742 01:14:15,375 --> 01:14:16,916 - In the pinball area, 1743 01:14:16,916 --> 01:14:21,625 when a bunch of guys left our pinball business 1744 01:14:22,750 --> 01:14:25,791 to work for an upstart, 1745 01:14:25,791 --> 01:14:30,333 we unleashed our legal dogs 1746 01:14:30,333 --> 01:14:35,083 on everybody associated with that to sue them, 1747 01:14:36,833 --> 01:14:39,416 take them to court, and make their lives so miserable 1748 01:14:39,416 --> 01:14:42,000 that they would just eventually throw up their hands 1749 01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:43,291 and say, "We give up." 1750 01:14:45,500 --> 01:14:48,250 - You know, he really felt ownership over all of us. 1751 01:14:48,250 --> 01:14:50,333 You know, he would yell and say, you know 1752 01:14:50,333 --> 01:14:51,750 "Get your ass back here! 1753 01:14:51,750 --> 01:14:53,875 "What are you doing?" 1754 01:14:53,875 --> 01:14:57,000 He was pretty strong in his opinions. 1755 01:14:58,875 --> 01:15:00,708 - Although the Universal deal didn't get penned, 1756 01:15:00,708 --> 01:15:05,500 it did produce the negotiating point and motivation 1757 01:15:07,333 --> 01:15:10,208 for Midway to pay these guys what they really were worth 1758 01:15:10,208 --> 01:15:12,916 and recognize the value that they really were bringing 1759 01:15:12,916 --> 01:15:17,000 to Midway's role and placement in this industry. 1760 01:15:21,958 --> 01:15:24,208 [John Tobias] - I remember Ed and I were in the studio 1761 01:15:24,208 --> 01:15:28,958 and Larry Kasanoff was brought through by Ken Fedesna. 1762 01:15:30,541 --> 01:15:35,916 And Larry was familiar with Midway through Terminator 2. 1763 01:15:36,208 --> 01:15:38,333 - I heard through the grapevine that Midway 1764 01:15:38,333 --> 01:15:41,000 was testing an arcade game that was on track 1765 01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:43,000 to beat our Terminator 2 record. 1766 01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:44,666 We couldn't have that. 1767 01:15:44,666 --> 01:15:47,041 So partly, just to keep in touch on a friendly basis, 1768 01:15:47,041 --> 01:15:48,625 and partly out of competitive spirit, 1769 01:15:48,625 --> 01:15:50,166 I went to play it. 1770 01:15:50,166 --> 01:15:52,500 And I played the game in Neil Nicastro's office 1771 01:15:52,500 --> 01:15:54,333 on the arcade for 15 minutes. 1772 01:15:54,333 --> 01:15:56,791 It was Mortal Kombat, and I turned to him afterward, 1773 01:15:56,791 --> 01:15:58,333 and I said, "If you give me the rights to this, 1774 01:15:58,333 --> 01:16:00,458 "I guarantee you, I promise you, 1775 01:16:00,458 --> 01:16:02,291 "I will make it in every medium in the world, 1776 01:16:02,291 --> 01:16:06,125 "movies, TV, animation, music, live stage 1777 01:16:06,125 --> 01:16:07,750 "you name it, 'cause I think this Star Wars 1778 01:16:07,750 --> 01:16:09,250 "meets Enter the Dragon." 1779 01:16:09,250 --> 01:16:11,708 And Neil said, "You're crazy." 1780 01:16:12,333 --> 01:16:14,750 I went home and I wander around our arcade in Westwood, 1781 01:16:14,750 --> 01:16:17,416 and I was hanging around the Mortal Kombat game. 1782 01:16:17,416 --> 01:16:20,250 And a little 11-year-old kid slaps a quarter down, 1783 01:16:20,250 --> 01:16:21,958 and he looks up and he challenges me, 1784 01:16:21,958 --> 01:16:23,958 and then he beats me. 1785 01:16:23,958 --> 01:16:25,625 And he was so empowered, you know, 1786 01:16:25,625 --> 01:16:27,875 "You lose, Sub-Zero wins," and I lost, 1787 01:16:27,875 --> 01:16:29,208 and that kid was thrilled. 1788 01:16:29,208 --> 01:16:31,125 And I thought, I'm gonna make this into a movie. 1789 01:16:31,125 --> 01:16:32,750 - I was an aspiring filmmaker. 1790 01:16:32,750 --> 01:16:34,291 I grew up in the north of England, 1791 01:16:34,291 --> 01:16:36,333 and then discovered no one made movies 1792 01:16:36,333 --> 01:16:38,041 in the north of England. 1793 01:16:38,041 --> 01:16:40,083 So I moved to London and then discovered no one in London 1794 01:16:40,083 --> 01:16:41,291 made the kind of movies I loved. 1795 01:16:41,291 --> 01:16:43,250 So I ended up moving to LA. 1796 01:16:43,250 --> 01:16:45,083 And the first movie I did when I moved to LA 1797 01:16:45,083 --> 01:16:46,750 was Mortal Kombat. 1798 01:16:46,750 --> 01:16:48,708 And I had become really obsessed with it 1799 01:16:48,708 --> 01:16:50,375 when I played it in arcades in London. 1800 01:16:50,666 --> 01:16:54,333 - Paul Anderson had a tremendously great, great, 1801 01:16:54,333 --> 01:16:56,791 great manager who kept calling me and saying, 1802 01:16:56,791 --> 01:17:00,500 "You gotta see this guy's film." 1803 01:17:00,500 --> 01:17:02,625 And I thought, this guy's done some small, British art film. 1804 01:17:02,625 --> 01:17:03,916 There's no way. 1805 01:17:03,916 --> 01:17:05,583 But in Paul's small, British art film, 1806 01:17:05,583 --> 01:17:07,250 there was one three minute fight scene. 1807 01:17:07,250 --> 01:17:09,708 And I liked the energy of the fight scen 1808 01:17:09,708 --> 01:17:12,416 [hard rock music] 1809 01:17:12,416 --> 01:17:14,791 [man yelling] 1810 01:17:24,750 --> 01:17:28,375 - It's always a cultural clash with the video game company 1811 01:17:28,375 --> 01:17:30,791 and the movie people, again, because the video game people 1812 01:17:30,791 --> 01:17:33,541 are used to not having to make story decisions. 1813 01:17:33,541 --> 01:17:34,833 Left, right, center, fine. 1814 01:17:34,833 --> 01:17:37,041 It's what, remember, you the audience want. 1815 01:17:37,041 --> 01:17:39,750 The movie, you have to make decisions for the character. 1816 01:17:39,750 --> 01:17:41,625 So they were incredibly involved, 1817 01:17:41,625 --> 01:17:44,041 but it was always a little bit of that, you know, 1818 01:17:44,041 --> 01:17:45,666 odd two cultures meshing scenario. 1819 01:17:45,666 --> 01:17:47,458 It always is. 1820 01:17:47,458 --> 01:17:48,875 It still is with any video game company and movie company. 1821 01:17:48,875 --> 01:17:50,958 - The first thing I remember was thinking 1822 01:17:50,958 --> 01:17:52,375 well, how are these guys gonna change 1823 01:17:52,375 --> 01:17:53,583 what we produced. 1824 01:17:53,833 --> 01:17:56,083 - The question in Mortal Kombat was 1825 01:17:56,083 --> 01:17:57,583 what to do with the finishing moves, 1826 01:17:57,583 --> 01:17:59,333 because they were extraordinarily violent 1827 01:17:59,333 --> 01:18:01,541 It would have made the movie Rated R, 1828 01:18:01,541 --> 01:18:04,416 which would have negated a lot of kids from seeing it. 1829 01:18:04,416 --> 01:18:06,625 And it would have made you lack empathy 1830 01:18:06,625 --> 01:18:08,125 with the main character. 1831 01:18:08,125 --> 01:18:09,875 If Johnny Cage ripped people's spines out 1832 01:18:09,875 --> 01:18:12,291 in a movie, which is more real than a video game, 1833 01:18:12,291 --> 01:18:13,625 you wouldn't have liked him. 1834 01:18:13,625 --> 01:18:15,291 - I think they ended up being PG, right? 1835 01:18:15,291 --> 01:18:16,541 Weren't the Mortal Kombat movies PG? 1836 01:18:16,541 --> 01:18:18,500 You can't make a Mortal Kombat movie 1837 01:18:18,500 --> 01:18:21,125 and have it be accurate unless it's like NC-17. 1838 01:18:21,125 --> 01:18:22,333 And then it's gonna play in art houses, 1839 01:18:22,333 --> 01:18:23,708 and who's gonna go see Mortal Kombat 1840 01:18:23,708 --> 01:18:26,875 in an art house? 1841 01:18:26,875 --> 01:18:29,750 Me, I probably would, but... 1842 01:18:29,750 --> 01:18:31,541 - Well, the most difficult thing in the movie 1843 01:18:31,541 --> 01:18:33,750 was actually Goro. 1844 01:18:33,750 --> 01:18:38,750 - Good ol' Goro, the last great physical 1845 01:18:38,875 --> 01:18:41,125 animatronic character didn't work quite as well 1846 01:18:41,125 --> 01:18:42,708 as we wanted to. 1847 01:18:42,708 --> 01:18:44,041 So we had to cut down some of the lines of Goro. 1848 01:18:45,500 --> 01:18:48,208 - The producers had committed to him 1849 01:18:48,208 --> 01:18:50,625 before I became involved in the movie. 1850 01:18:50,625 --> 01:18:52,250 So they're already building him. 1851 01:18:52,250 --> 01:18:54,708 And you know, ultimately, I don't know whether 1852 01:18:54,708 --> 01:18:56,333 I would have gone in that direction. 1853 01:18:56,333 --> 01:18:58,041 You know, we built Goro. 1854 01:18:58,041 --> 01:19:00,708 It was like, it was a man in a suit, 1855 01:19:00,708 --> 01:19:04,000 who then on his shoulders wore big, animatronic torso 1856 01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:05,750 with another two arms. 1857 01:19:05,750 --> 01:19:08,250 And of course, he just broke down all the time. 1858 01:19:08,250 --> 01:19:10,083 Goro became like the biggest diva on set 1859 01:19:10,083 --> 01:19:11,458 We're always waiting for Goro. 1860 01:19:13,541 --> 01:19:16,375 - So we go and we decide we're gonna show Neil Nicastro 1861 01:19:16,375 --> 01:19:18,000 the movie before it comes out. 1862 01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:20,625 So we bring out this, some bad copy of the movie, 1863 01:19:20,625 --> 01:19:22,500 and we show it to him. 1864 01:19:22,500 --> 01:19:26,958 He looks at me, he goes, "Based out of 10, maybe a 3." 1865 01:19:26,958 --> 01:19:28,791 And so, he just hated the movie. 1866 01:19:28,791 --> 01:19:31,625 - And I remember thinking, 1867 01:19:31,625 --> 01:19:34,041 when they did the first trailer and they used that music 1868 01:19:34,041 --> 01:19:36,416 and they basically just showed these characters. 1869 01:19:36,416 --> 01:19:37,250 [Mortal Kombat music] 1870 01:19:37,250 --> 01:19:39,250 - [Announcer] Kano. 1871 01:19:39,250 --> 01:19:40,791 Liu Kang. 1872 01:19:40,791 --> 01:19:42,541 Raiden. 1873 01:19:42,541 --> 01:19:43,500 Johnny Cage. 1874 01:19:44,583 --> 01:19:45,125 Scorpion. 1875 01:19:46,291 --> 01:19:47,083 Sub-Zero. 1876 01:19:47,958 --> 01:19:48,750 Sonya. 1877 01:19:50,625 --> 01:19:52,125 - It's not terribly imaginative. 1878 01:19:52,125 --> 01:19:54,000 I was a little disappointed, to be honest 1879 01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:56,750 And then I saw it play in cinemas. 1880 01:19:56,750 --> 01:19:58,291 And I was sitting in the cinema, 1881 01:19:58,291 --> 01:19:59,958 and there's a couple of Mortal Kombat fans, obviously, 1882 01:19:59,958 --> 01:20:01,291 in front of me. 1883 01:20:01,291 --> 01:20:02,791 And they loved it. 1884 01:20:02,791 --> 01:20:04,125 They loved it. 1885 01:20:04,125 --> 01:20:05,916 And what they loved was that you could s 1886 01:20:05,916 --> 01:20:07,416 they were making a mental checklist. 1887 01:20:07,416 --> 01:20:08,500 Scorpion, tick. 1888 01:20:08,500 --> 01:20:09,791 Sub-Zero, tick. 1889 01:20:09,791 --> 01:20:11,333 Raiden, tick. 1890 01:20:11,333 --> 01:20:13,083 And they actually said that to one another. 1891 01:20:13,083 --> 01:20:14,750 It's like, oh, they're all there. 1892 01:20:14,750 --> 01:20:16,416 - [Man] Mortal Kombat! 1893 01:20:16,416 --> 01:20:20,000 [Mortal Kombat theme music] 1894 01:20:23,125 --> 01:20:25,250 - [Announcer] Kombat begins. 1895 01:20:25,250 --> 01:20:29,041 - So now it comes the most nerve wracking time 1896 01:20:29,041 --> 01:20:31,541 in the life of a movie producer or director. 1897 01:20:31,541 --> 01:20:33,041 The movie's essentially done, 1898 01:20:33,041 --> 01:20:35,125 and now you're waiting for it to be released. 1899 01:20:36,416 --> 01:20:38,375 - [Reporter] Mortal Kombat as a video game 1900 01:20:38,375 --> 01:20:41,750 is already a two billion, with a B, dollar business. 1901 01:20:41,750 --> 01:20:44,250 The take is going up this weekend with the debut 1902 01:20:44,250 --> 01:20:45,916 of the feature film based on the game, 1903 01:20:45,916 --> 01:20:47,791 starring Christopher Lambert as Raiden. 1904 01:20:47,791 --> 01:20:49,375 - New Line calls me up and says, 1905 01:20:49,375 --> 01:20:50,791 "I've never seen numbers like this. 1906 01:20:50,791 --> 01:20:52,375 "We're breaking records all over the world." 1907 01:20:52,375 --> 01:20:54,000 You go, oh, thank goodness. 1908 01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:56,333 And then you have a great weekend. 1909 01:20:56,625 --> 01:20:58,625 - I mean, he was a very smart producer. 1910 01:20:58,625 --> 01:21:00,333 This guy got Mortal Kombat, you know, 1911 01:21:00,333 --> 01:21:02,250 and set it up as a movie, 1912 01:21:02,250 --> 01:21:03,791 when a lot of people, I think, were doubting 1913 01:21:03,791 --> 01:21:06,708 whether it was good idea to adapt video games or not. 1914 01:21:06,708 --> 01:21:09,250 - Did Neil ever own up to his prediction to me 1915 01:21:09,250 --> 01:21:11,625 that I was crazy and it would be an utter failure? 1916 01:21:11,625 --> 01:21:13,250 I don't think he did. 1917 01:21:13,250 --> 01:21:14,750 I think he probably owes me that. 1918 01:21:17,375 --> 01:21:19,958 [Neil Nicastro] - We had a very entrepreneurial 1919 01:21:19,958 --> 01:21:25,041 compensation structure so that if you were running a team, 1920 01:21:25,041 --> 01:21:29,750 and that game became very successful, 1921 01:21:29,750 --> 01:21:31,416 you were gonna make a lot of money. 1922 01:21:31,416 --> 01:21:35,000 Guys were walking away with million-dollar checks, plus. 1923 01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:37,250 - They had a limit of how much bonus money 1924 01:21:37,250 --> 01:21:39,250 they would ever pay you over one title. 1925 01:21:39,250 --> 01:21:40,416 I think it was $2 million. 1926 01:21:40,416 --> 01:21:42,875 And as Neil explained it, it's like, 1927 01:21:42,875 --> 01:21:45,000 "Well, I'm not gonna pay you any more than $2 million, 1928 01:21:45,000 --> 01:21:46,291 "because the moment I do, 1929 01:21:46,291 --> 01:21:48,291 "you don't need to come into work anymore 1930 01:21:48,291 --> 01:21:50,125 "And I want you to carry on making games for us." 1931 01:21:50,125 --> 01:21:52,083 - Each team was really competitive. 1932 01:21:52,083 --> 01:21:54,750 Ed Boon and I were kind of at the top 1933 01:21:54,750 --> 01:21:56,541 of the competition scale. 1934 01:21:56,541 --> 01:21:57,791 I don't know if this is true or not, 1935 01:21:57,791 --> 01:21:59,458 but Ken Fedesna actually told me 1936 01:21:59,458 --> 01:22:03,375 that when it came time to negotiate contracts, 1937 01:22:03,375 --> 01:22:06,250 Ed wanted to make sure he had a salary 1938 01:22:06,250 --> 01:22:08,791 that was one dollar higher than my salary 1939 01:22:08,791 --> 01:22:13,250 - We were talking about the compensation structure 1940 01:22:13,250 --> 01:22:16,625 and how some may view that as 1941 01:22:18,458 --> 01:22:20,666 creating a bad atmosphere where you're pitting teams 1942 01:22:20,666 --> 01:22:21,666 against each other. 1943 01:22:23,250 --> 01:22:26,208 And I could understand and appreciate that. 1944 01:22:26,208 --> 01:22:28,500 Some people think that is destructive. 1945 01:22:28,500 --> 01:22:31,875 But I think those are the same, you know, thoughts 1946 01:22:31,875 --> 01:22:35,583 that think that communist consciousness works, 1947 01:22:35,583 --> 01:22:39,041 that we have a desire to work hard 1948 01:22:39,041 --> 01:22:42,291 for the benefit of our fellow man. 1949 01:22:42,291 --> 01:22:43,791 I think that's bullshit. 1950 01:22:43,791 --> 01:22:48,708 - Everybody, every designer, every developer 1951 01:22:48,708 --> 01:22:51,291 on the Williams, and I'm still to this day, 1952 01:22:51,291 --> 01:22:54,250 I think of them as the Williams side, 1953 01:22:54,250 --> 01:22:58,916 were very, went out of their way to make us feel welcome, 1954 01:22:58,916 --> 01:23:00,458 but in a way that was very different 1955 01:23:00,458 --> 01:23:05,250 from what we were used to at old Bally Midway. 1956 01:23:05,250 --> 01:23:08,041 I mean, guys like Eugene and Jack Haeger 1957 01:23:08,041 --> 01:23:12,041 and Ed and Mark, all would come up to us and say, 1958 01:23:12,041 --> 01:23:14,625 "Hey, this is the way it works here," 1959 01:23:14,625 --> 01:23:17,958 and "Glad to have you guys. 1960 01:23:17,958 --> 01:23:19,250 "You're gonna do great stuff here, 1961 01:23:19,250 --> 01:23:21,000 "but don't go talk to them. 1962 01:23:22,625 --> 01:23:23,958 "They're not doing it right." 1963 01:23:23,958 --> 01:23:25,375 - And it would just push them. 1964 01:23:25,375 --> 01:23:26,708 People have that drive. 1965 01:23:26,708 --> 01:23:29,500 It would just push them to do better 1966 01:23:29,500 --> 01:23:34,125 because the people that just wanna help everybody else out, 1967 01:23:34,125 --> 01:23:37,416 they typically don't have that burning desire 1968 01:23:37,416 --> 01:23:38,958 to prove something. 1969 01:23:38,958 --> 01:23:40,583 - If you look at thehistory of the department, 1970 01:23:40,583 --> 01:23:42,250 we started out with nothing. 1971 01:23:42,250 --> 01:23:46,500 And we had to build this whole department, and get, 1972 01:23:46,500 --> 01:23:48,125 I mean, we were nobody, 1973 01:23:48,125 --> 01:23:50,333 and we were fighting like the Ataris of the world. 1974 01:23:50,333 --> 01:23:52,875 And there was a point when we all were together. 1975 01:23:52,875 --> 01:23:54,625 Like everybody's like clicking. 1976 01:23:54,625 --> 01:23:56,583 We're all working with each other. 1977 01:23:56,583 --> 01:23:59,250 And then, you know, I'll be very honest, 1978 01:23:59,250 --> 01:24:01,625 success came and screwed the whole thing up. 1979 01:24:01,833 --> 01:24:03,583 - Footage came from the Tokyo Game Show. 1980 01:24:03,583 --> 01:24:05,083 - [Game] Ready, go! 1981 01:24:05,083 --> 01:24:08,250 [fighting and punching] 1982 01:24:09,666 --> 01:24:12,000 - And the footage was of Virtual Fighter 1983 01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:14,000 And the moment that was seen, 1984 01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:15,875 everybody looked at each other and went, 1985 01:24:15,875 --> 01:24:16,875 "We need to be doing this." 1986 01:24:16,875 --> 01:24:18,125 And then forced their turn. 1987 01:24:18,125 --> 01:24:19,750 This was when Mortal Kombat 3 was happening. 1988 01:24:19,750 --> 01:24:21,500 They turned to Ed, and Ed's like, "I'm not ready. 1989 01:24:21,500 --> 01:24:23,083 "I'm elbow-deep in Mortal Kombat 3. 1990 01:24:23,083 --> 01:24:24,708 "I'm not doing this." 1991 01:24:24,708 --> 01:24:26,583 And so this other team that was making a tank game 1992 01:24:26,583 --> 01:24:28,875 decided, we're gonna make a fighting game 1993 01:24:28,875 --> 01:24:33,000 [inspirational musical burst] 1994 01:24:33,000 --> 01:24:34,958 - We were making a fighting game in the company 1995 01:24:34,958 --> 01:24:36,250 that made Mortal Kombat. 1996 01:24:36,250 --> 01:24:37,541 And I think that was a huge challenge, 1997 01:24:37,541 --> 01:24:39,083 because I think a lot of people thought 1998 01:24:39,083 --> 01:24:43,625 War Gods was going to be Mortal Kombat 4, or whatever. 1999 01:24:43,625 --> 01:24:44,875 And it was not. 2000 01:24:44,875 --> 01:24:46,875 - You know, it seemed like thematically, 2001 01:24:46,875 --> 01:24:50,500 they were a little closer, too close to Mortal Kombat. 2002 01:24:50,500 --> 01:24:53,250 - It was unadulteratedly a ripoff of Mortal Kombat. 2003 01:24:53,250 --> 01:24:54,958 They used all exact control mechanisms 2004 01:24:54,958 --> 01:24:56,541 with the joysticks and the buttons. 2005 01:24:56,541 --> 01:24:58,333 It was just, it was no beating around the bush. 2006 01:24:58,333 --> 01:25:00,583 This was Mortal Kombat, but in 3D. 2007 01:25:00,583 --> 01:25:02,666 [characters yelling] 2008 01:25:02,666 --> 01:25:04,250 - Nobody had it. 2009 01:25:04,250 --> 01:25:06,041 Nobody has a corner on ideas, you know? 2010 01:25:06,041 --> 01:25:07,958 Just kind of ideas come and flow, 2011 01:25:07,958 --> 01:25:10,583 and we needed to do what was best for the department. 2012 01:25:10,583 --> 01:25:14,041 But it could get very difficult sometime 2013 01:25:14,041 --> 01:25:16,791 - People would walk past an office 2014 01:25:16,791 --> 01:25:19,000 where some of the Mortal Kombat guys were in there. 2015 01:25:19,000 --> 01:25:20,583 If you were on the War Gods team, 2016 01:25:20,583 --> 01:25:22,500 they would literally shut the door in your face. 2017 01:25:22,500 --> 01:25:25,375 - Did we get any help from the MK guys on War Gods? 2018 01:25:25,375 --> 01:25:26,875 And that answer is zero. 2019 01:25:26,875 --> 01:25:30,291 - It was, it was ugly. [laughs] 2020 01:25:30,291 --> 01:25:31,750 - You know, that's the way, 2021 01:25:31,750 --> 01:25:34,000 you know, the way management pitted the teams 2022 01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:35,333 against each other. 2023 01:25:35,333 --> 01:25:37,333 That kind of didn't help the situation. 2024 01:25:37,333 --> 01:25:39,958 - I think I remember one of the reviews, 2025 01:25:39,958 --> 01:25:41,333 we all had a good chuckle at this, 2026 01:25:41,333 --> 01:25:44,000 one of the reviews was War Gods, God Awful. 2027 01:25:46,625 --> 01:25:49,000 [dance music] 2028 01:25:50,791 --> 01:25:53,000 [Eugene Jarvis]- Well, we had been working on Cruis'n project 2029 01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:55,250 for, God, I don't know, maybe, 2030 01:25:55,250 --> 01:25:58,166 I guess two-and-a-half, maybe only three years. 2031 01:25:59,708 --> 01:26:02,125 You know, we were running out of money 2032 01:26:02,125 --> 01:26:07,541 and kind of over budget and over time [laughs] 2033 01:26:08,375 --> 01:26:12,250 - At the time, Nintendo was touting their Ultra 64. 2034 01:26:12,250 --> 01:26:14,291 [Announcer] - Project Reality. 2035 01:26:15,875 --> 01:26:17,583 Leagues beyond any currently available 2036 01:26:17,583 --> 01:26:19,250 or anticipated hardware, 2037 01:26:19,250 --> 01:26:22,250 Project Reality will bring to home video players 2038 01:26:22,250 --> 01:26:25,000 the same types of astounding visual effects 2039 01:26:25,000 --> 01:26:27,250 seen in movies, like Terminator 2. 2040 01:26:27,250 --> 01:26:29,708 - They were making a push just to show 2041 01:26:29,708 --> 01:26:31,916 that we've got this incredibly powerful, 2042 01:26:31,916 --> 01:26:36,041 polygon generating new video game system 2043 01:26:36,041 --> 01:26:40,708 - So the Ultra 64 was really vaporware at the time. 2044 01:26:40,708 --> 01:26:42,291 They didn't have anything. 2045 01:26:42,291 --> 01:26:43,958 They were a year away. 2046 01:26:43,958 --> 01:26:48,958 So they came to Neil Nicastro and they came to Williams 2047 01:26:48,958 --> 01:26:51,250 and said, "Listen, what do you guys have 2048 01:26:51,250 --> 01:26:53,208 - You know, went to Eugene, and I said, 2049 01:26:53,208 --> 01:26:56,208 "Hey Gene, if I can get you this amount of money," 2050 01:26:56,208 --> 01:26:58,958 I think it was "give me all your rights 2051 01:26:58,958 --> 01:27:00,583 "to the home side of it." 2052 01:27:00,583 --> 01:27:02,791 Eugene says "Yes, if you get me X. 2053 01:27:02,791 --> 01:27:05,208 "I'll be happy with that." 2054 01:27:05,208 --> 01:27:08,041 And then we ended up getting another figure from Nintendo 2055 01:27:08,041 --> 01:27:10,708 that was like a big multiple of X. 2056 01:27:10,708 --> 01:27:13,583 - And so we decided 2057 01:27:13,583 --> 01:27:17,416 rather than going broke, that we would go back to Midway. 2058 01:27:17,416 --> 01:27:19,750 [laughs] 2059 01:27:19,750 --> 01:27:22,250 - So Nintendo was bragging that it was going to based 2060 01:27:22,250 --> 01:27:24,625 on the N64 and everything else and stuff 2061 01:27:24,625 --> 01:27:27,291 Well, of course, showing it at the CES Show 2062 01:27:27,291 --> 01:27:29,250 was not running on N64. 2063 01:27:29,250 --> 01:27:31,416 It wasn't anywhere near N64. 2064 01:27:31,416 --> 01:27:33,250 - You know, we kinda had to swallow hard on that one, 2065 01:27:33,250 --> 01:27:35,958 because it was, it was our hardware. 2066 01:27:35,958 --> 01:27:37,916 It was hardware that we created in there 2067 01:27:37,916 --> 01:27:40,791 And they were labeling it the Nintendo hardware. 2068 01:27:40,791 --> 01:27:45,166 - [Announcer] Only on Nintendo Ultra 64. 2069 01:27:47,250 --> 01:27:49,958 - Nintendo system being in the Cruis'n game? 2070 01:27:49,958 --> 01:27:51,708 Somebody in their marketing department made that up 2071 01:27:51,708 --> 01:27:53,375 after the fact. 2072 01:27:53,375 --> 01:27:55,083 [video game music] 2073 01:27:55,083 --> 01:27:56,750 - When the Nintendo thing came along, 2074 01:27:56,750 --> 01:27:59,041 it enabled us to come back and really ha 2075 01:27:59,041 --> 01:28:01,291 a longer runway for us to finish the game 2076 01:28:01,291 --> 01:28:05,375 And the advantage that we had by doing that was, 2077 01:28:05,375 --> 01:28:07,208 I'm not saying that we were doing it in a bubble. 2078 01:28:07,208 --> 01:28:10,625 But we weren't amongst the Turmells of the world 2079 01:28:10,625 --> 01:28:12,625 and the Boons of the world, and so on, 2080 01:28:12,625 --> 01:28:15,416 that could give us valuable information. 2081 01:28:15,416 --> 01:28:17,333 - And they were kinda brutal on our game 2082 01:28:17,333 --> 01:28:18,625 I mean, the Cruis'n USA. 2083 01:28:18,625 --> 01:28:22,708 I remember Fedesna was like, "Yeah, snoozin'." 2084 01:28:22,708 --> 01:28:23,750 That was his term for it. 2085 01:28:23,750 --> 01:28:24,875 - I do remember that. 2086 01:28:26,416 --> 01:28:28,708 But I don't remember who gave it that name. 2087 01:28:28,708 --> 01:28:31,333 But it had to be one of the other guys. 2088 01:28:31,333 --> 01:28:33,125 It wasn't me that gave it the name Snoozin'. 2089 01:28:33,125 --> 01:28:35,333 - Here was the guy that abandoned them 2090 01:28:35,333 --> 01:28:36,583 in the coming back. 2091 01:28:36,583 --> 01:28:40,208 And it was a little bit awkward for a while. 2092 01:28:40,208 --> 01:28:41,958 - Oh, when that game came in, it was garbage. 2093 01:28:41,958 --> 01:28:44,125 It was like, it was such garbage. 2094 01:28:44,125 --> 01:28:46,583 And Eugene knew it, too. 2095 01:28:46,583 --> 01:28:48,083 That's why he came back in. 2096 01:28:48,083 --> 01:28:49,875 He was wise enough to know he needed, 2097 01:28:49,875 --> 01:28:53,958 you know, he needed that punch, that he would get Turmell. 2098 01:28:53,958 --> 01:28:55,000 I mean, Turmell would sit around that ga 2099 01:28:55,000 --> 01:28:56,958 and just write stuff. 2100 01:28:56,958 --> 01:28:58,250 You know, I would talk about it. 2101 01:28:58,250 --> 01:29:00,250 - We got that energy, like that negative vibe, 2102 01:29:00,250 --> 01:29:03,000 like, you know, like ooh, you know, like 2103 01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:05,541 and then we got movin' and it was cool. 2104 01:29:05,541 --> 01:29:08,083 It was really cool to get that frank input. 2105 01:29:08,083 --> 01:29:14,041 What really hurts is the truth [laughs] 2106 01:29:14,583 --> 01:29:17,500 - The common denominator in everything that we did 2107 01:29:17,500 --> 01:29:19,541 was that we all worked for Eugene. 2108 01:29:19,541 --> 01:29:23,250 And we all like, we all grew up on Eugene's games. 2109 01:29:23,250 --> 01:29:25,375 Ask Mark Turmell, Eugene fan. 2110 01:29:25,375 --> 01:29:26,916 Ask Ed. 2111 01:29:26,916 --> 01:29:27,833 You know, we all worked for Eugene. 2112 01:29:27,833 --> 01:29:29,125 He was our guy, you know? 2113 01:29:29,125 --> 01:29:33,208 He was Stan Lee, man. [laughs] 2114 01:29:33,208 --> 01:29:37,208 - Cruis'n was a huge commercial success. 2115 01:29:37,208 --> 01:29:41,958 But critically, actually, it took a lot of flack, 2116 01:29:42,875 --> 01:29:46,000 because it was more of a casual player's driving game. 2117 01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:49,416 Actually appealed a lot to girls. 2118 01:29:49,416 --> 01:29:52,791 Like teenage girls loved the driving mechanic 2119 01:29:52,791 --> 01:29:55,000 and loved, you know, like pre-drivers, 2120 01:29:55,000 --> 01:29:57,083 like practicing for their license. 2121 01:29:58,208 --> 01:30:00,250 - The startup cost to going to play a fighting game 2122 01:30:00,250 --> 01:30:02,250 is high, right, like everyone's paying attention, 2123 01:30:02,250 --> 01:30:04,708 and you're having to play with another person. 2124 01:30:04,708 --> 01:30:06,791 You're probably looking for a slightly different experience. 2125 01:30:06,791 --> 01:30:08,125 You might be lookingfor a machine 2126 01:30:08,125 --> 01:30:09,791 that's not as crowded so you can go play 2127 01:30:09,791 --> 01:30:10,958 and kind of be left alone. 2128 01:30:11,125 --> 01:30:12,625 - You know, we just took all this flack, 2129 01:30:12,625 --> 01:30:15,291 that we were sellouts, and our game sucked, 2130 01:30:15,291 --> 01:30:16,958 and there was no skill. 2131 01:30:16,958 --> 01:30:21,708 And you know what's crazy is I look at Cruis'n USA today 2132 01:30:21,708 --> 01:30:24,750 and from today's standards, which is, 2133 01:30:24,750 --> 01:30:27,333 I guess 28-odd years later. 2134 01:30:27,333 --> 01:30:29,333 The game actually is horribly difficult [laughs] 2135 01:30:31,583 --> 01:30:33,291 So if you put it out in an arcade today, 2136 01:30:33,291 --> 01:30:35,333 people would refuse to play it, it's so hard. 2137 01:30:36,416 --> 01:30:40,708 [voice speaking on overhead] 2138 01:30:40,708 --> 01:30:43,541 [music] 2139 01:30:48,458 --> 01:30:52,125 - When I interviewed Ed and John about Mortal Kombat 3, 2140 01:30:52,125 --> 01:30:54,250 we had already spoken a few times before 2141 01:30:54,250 --> 01:30:56,625 and I said, you know, "You're on your third game. 2142 01:30:56,625 --> 01:30:58,250 "Are you tired?" 2143 01:30:58,250 --> 01:31:00,083 And they actually did sound a little bit tired. 2144 01:31:01,500 --> 01:31:02,833 - [Ed Boon] To some degree, 2145 01:31:02,833 --> 01:31:05,125 we've become like a Mortal Kombat factory 2146 01:31:05,125 --> 01:31:09,291 in the sense that we know exactly how to do the backgrounds. 2147 01:31:09,291 --> 01:31:11,041 We know exactly how to do characters. 2148 01:31:11,041 --> 01:31:14,583 We know how to do all the throws, and the filming. 2149 01:31:14,583 --> 01:31:16,125 We're just like an assembly line. 2150 01:31:16,125 --> 01:31:17,666 - [Dan Amrich] Right. 2151 01:31:17,666 --> 01:31:19,291 - [Ed Boon] So in that respect, we're like, you know, 2152 01:31:19,291 --> 01:31:20,500 you kinda wish at getting a chance to do something 2153 01:31:20,500 --> 01:31:21,916 completely different. 2154 01:31:21,916 --> 01:31:24,416 - Apparently, there was at the time a pitch 2155 01:31:24,416 --> 01:31:26,125 for a Star Wars game. 2156 01:31:26,125 --> 01:31:27,291 And when we started talking about 2157 01:31:27,291 --> 01:31:28,958 what that potential Star Wars game could be, 2158 01:31:28,958 --> 01:31:30,791 on the record, they lit up. 2159 01:31:30,791 --> 01:31:32,375 They were so happy. 2160 01:31:32,375 --> 01:31:33,875 And I could tell, these guys need their batteries recharged. 2161 01:31:33,875 --> 01:31:36,375 They needed to shift gears out of Mortal Kombat 2162 01:31:36,375 --> 01:31:39,208 to keep Mortal Kombat interesting for themselves. 2163 01:31:39,208 --> 01:31:42,541 And I really believe that that's what The Grid became. 2164 01:31:42,541 --> 01:31:48,791 The Grid was a six-player competitive death match game 2165 01:31:48,958 --> 01:31:52,125 with completely different controls. 2166 01:31:52,125 --> 01:31:54,750 - And then it had all these sensibilities 2167 01:31:54,750 --> 01:31:56,625 that came from SmashTV. 2168 01:31:56,625 --> 01:31:58,000 - Good luck. 2169 01:31:58,000 --> 01:32:00,000 You'll need it. 2170 01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:03,541 - You've got two minutes to get five points. 2171 01:32:03,541 --> 01:32:04,333 Good luck! 2172 01:32:06,208 --> 01:32:08,708 Mike Mika - It was trying to be this thing that was creating 2173 01:32:08,708 --> 01:32:10,958 a sport out of this new kind of interfac 2174 01:32:10,958 --> 01:32:12,041 a new kind of way to play. 2175 01:32:14,208 --> 01:32:15,583 It had all the makings and the trimmings 2176 01:32:15,583 --> 01:32:18,041 of what would be a big e-sport today, 2177 01:32:18,041 --> 01:32:20,250 but all the way back in the '90s. 2178 01:32:20,250 --> 01:32:22,208 - We'll get people here that it's like, 2179 01:32:22,208 --> 01:32:24,041 hey, we're gonna be on The Grid all night 2180 01:32:24,041 --> 01:32:27,333 If anybody's saying we need to be off, let us know, 2181 01:32:27,333 --> 01:32:29,833 just because we just wanna grind out and play 2182 01:32:29,833 --> 01:32:31,333 for six hours of The Grid. 2183 01:32:31,333 --> 01:32:33,791 - The Grid was Ed Boon having fun. 2184 01:32:33,791 --> 01:32:36,708 He really did, he let it all out. 2185 01:32:36,708 --> 01:32:38,875 He let himself do something different. 2186 01:32:38,875 --> 01:32:41,791 And you can see that there's a joy in that game, 2187 01:32:41,791 --> 01:32:43,791 of him being able to shift gears 2188 01:32:43,791 --> 01:32:46,250 and stretch a different part of his design brain. 2189 01:32:46,250 --> 01:32:49,500 I always see it as sort of Ed Boon's vacation game 2190 01:32:49,500 --> 01:32:50,958 that he worked so hard on 2191 01:32:50,958 --> 01:32:53,250 that it was not a vacation at all. 2192 01:32:53,250 --> 01:32:56,000 - We only sold 550 Grids, it was, approximately. 2193 01:32:56,000 --> 01:32:57,333 There was nothing. 2194 01:32:57,333 --> 01:33:00,625 Grid earned terribly as a single unit. 2195 01:33:00,625 --> 01:33:03,083 If you had four or the six units togethe 2196 01:33:03,083 --> 01:33:04,750 The problem there was, though, 2197 01:33:04,750 --> 01:33:07,583 you gotta buy four cabinets or four sets of electronics 2198 01:33:07,583 --> 01:33:08,916 and everything else. 2199 01:33:08,916 --> 01:33:10,583 So now in order to get the earnings, 2200 01:33:10,583 --> 01:33:12,208 which you're talking about, 2201 01:33:12,208 --> 01:33:15,083 you had to invest, instead of X, you had to invest 4X. 2202 01:33:16,875 --> 01:33:18,583 - You know, the operators expected every game 2203 01:33:18,583 --> 01:33:20,750 that comes out has to earn, you know, 2204 01:33:20,750 --> 01:33:23,208 so much money per week. 2205 01:33:23,208 --> 01:33:25,083 There was no way that every game was going to come out 2206 01:33:25,083 --> 01:33:26,791 and earn two grand a week. 2207 01:33:26,791 --> 01:33:29,083 It just wasn't going to happen. 2208 01:33:29,083 --> 01:33:30,875 - All management wanted to do was just, 2209 01:33:30,875 --> 01:33:32,500 they wanted to stamp out. 2210 01:33:32,500 --> 01:33:33,875 Basically, if they could have stamped ou 2211 01:33:33,875 --> 01:33:36,875 more Mortal Kombats, you know, in a row, 2212 01:33:36,875 --> 01:33:38,541 that's what they would've done. 2213 01:33:38,541 --> 01:33:41,875 - We went to the well too many times with the same mechanics 2214 01:33:41,875 --> 01:33:44,500 or not enough innovation. 2215 01:33:44,500 --> 01:33:47,500 - But it was in the late '90s I saw the warning signs 2216 01:33:47,500 --> 01:33:50,875 that things may be getting more difficult 2217 01:33:50,875 --> 01:33:52,083 in the coin-op area. 2218 01:33:54,041 --> 01:33:56,208 - The consoles for the home get more sophisticated. 2219 01:33:56,208 --> 01:33:58,333 The CD-Rom is a hugely important technology. 2220 01:33:58,333 --> 01:34:01,041 And it brings that kind of arcade-style graphics 2221 01:34:01,041 --> 01:34:02,375 into the home. 2222 01:34:02,375 --> 01:34:06,500 - I could feel that what we could do as a company 2223 01:34:06,500 --> 01:34:10,500 on the hardware side wasn't going to be able to approach 2224 01:34:10,500 --> 01:34:16,666 that what a whole team of engineers could pull off. 2225 01:34:16,958 --> 01:34:21,916 - Console gaming really changed how I felt about games 2226 01:34:21,916 --> 01:34:24,250 because I was able to take my time. 2227 01:34:24,250 --> 01:34:25,958 I was able to play games without somebody 2228 01:34:25,958 --> 01:34:27,791 looking over my shoulder and judging 2229 01:34:27,791 --> 01:34:28,916 whether I was good or not. 2230 01:34:28,916 --> 01:34:32,416 And I was able to experiment. 2231 01:34:32,416 --> 01:34:35,875 I was really happy when consoles came about, 2232 01:34:35,875 --> 01:34:38,000 because then there were games for me, to 2233 01:34:38,000 --> 01:34:40,375 Whereas in a arcade, there is, 2234 01:34:40,375 --> 01:34:42,541 you know, if I weren't good at Street Fighter, 2235 01:34:42,541 --> 01:34:45,958 you know, the whole sort of experience kind of stopped 2236 01:34:45,958 --> 01:34:47,000 at a certain level. 2237 01:34:48,916 --> 01:34:50,625 - I think the other thing that had a huge impact 2238 01:34:50,625 --> 01:34:51,833 was the internet. 2239 01:34:51,833 --> 01:34:53,708 So the social aspect of the arcade, 2240 01:34:53,708 --> 01:34:56,375 where that's where you would go and trash talk your buddy 2241 01:34:56,375 --> 01:34:59,541 and friend, you could now find ways to do that 2242 01:34:59,541 --> 01:35:02,500 playing your game, but also via the internet. 2243 01:35:02,500 --> 01:35:04,708 - In fact, I remember an operator telling me once, 2244 01:35:04,708 --> 01:35:09,208 when the Monica Lewinsky conversation got published 2245 01:35:09,208 --> 01:35:13,958 on the internet, that he saw a decline in his audience. 2246 01:35:14,416 --> 01:35:17,541 Like, it seems weird, but the internet became 2247 01:35:17,541 --> 01:35:19,583 like this entertainment factor. 2248 01:35:19,583 --> 01:35:23,916 - I did not have sexual relations with that woman. 2249 01:35:23,916 --> 01:35:26,708 - And people stopped going to arcades. 2250 01:35:26,708 --> 01:35:30,000 - So it was that period of time where, you know, 2251 01:35:30,000 --> 01:35:33,541 you feel yourself being, you see your future, 2252 01:35:33,541 --> 01:35:36,000 and your future looks crappy. 2253 01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:37,500 And you feel 2254 01:35:38,958 --> 01:35:43,208 somewhat paralyzed to actually make a change. 2255 01:35:43,208 --> 01:35:46,500 I'd say that's probably the crappiest time. 2256 01:35:46,500 --> 01:35:49,500 - You know, Neil basically had a meeting and he said, 2257 01:35:49,500 --> 01:35:51,958 "Hey, I think the days are numbered 2258 01:35:51,958 --> 01:35:53,958 "for the coin-op business." 2259 01:35:53,958 --> 01:35:55,250 - So the writing was on the wall. 2260 01:35:55,250 --> 01:35:57,375 Things started falling apart very quickl 2261 01:35:57,375 --> 01:36:00,000 And you had this millions of dollars of overhead 2262 01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:01,791 in coin-op and it was decided, okay, 2263 01:36:01,791 --> 01:36:03,083 we're gonna get out of coin-op 2264 01:36:03,083 --> 01:36:04,416 because there's so much more money, 2265 01:36:04,416 --> 01:36:06,541 theoretically to be made, on the consume 2266 01:36:06,541 --> 01:36:07,791 than there was in coin-op. 2267 01:36:07,791 --> 01:36:09,541 And that was the end of coin-op. 2268 01:36:09,541 --> 01:36:12,250 Pinball first, then came Midway, 2269 01:36:12,250 --> 01:36:13,750 as far as coin-op was concerned. 2270 01:36:22,333 --> 01:36:25,250 - Games were focused direct-to-consumer now. 2271 01:36:25,250 --> 01:36:28,250 You know, Sony, et cetera. 2272 01:36:28,250 --> 01:36:33,000 And it took all of the arcade mechanics out. 2273 01:36:34,250 --> 01:36:36,250 It took the ways that we percentaged games, 2274 01:36:36,250 --> 01:36:38,500 the way we would bring a player through a game. 2275 01:36:38,500 --> 01:36:41,500 Certainly, consumer development is a lot more complex 2276 01:36:41,500 --> 01:36:46,250 and requires, you know, higher structure in a team, 2277 01:36:46,250 --> 01:36:47,916 and more team members. 2278 01:36:47,916 --> 01:36:52,541 But that did change what Midway was for all those years 2279 01:36:52,541 --> 01:36:54,708 in the '80s and '90s. 2280 01:36:54,708 --> 01:36:57,083 - When you look at it sort of in the grand scheme of things, 2281 01:36:57,083 --> 01:36:58,375 it was fairly short-lived. 2282 01:36:58,375 --> 01:37:01,000 My career at Midway spanned, I think, 2283 01:37:01,000 --> 01:37:02,958 a little bit longer than maybe a decade. 2284 01:37:02,958 --> 01:37:07,666 And I experienced the rebirth and then the death 2285 01:37:07,666 --> 01:37:08,708 of an industry. 2286 01:37:10,250 --> 01:37:11,500 - You know, we had this great thing, 2287 01:37:11,500 --> 01:37:13,083 and it was kind of like the party was over. 2288 01:37:13,083 --> 01:37:15,083 You know, it was just like, it's two AM. 2289 01:37:15,083 --> 01:37:16,916 Everybody's got a headache. 2290 01:37:16,916 --> 01:37:19,750 And we had, what a ride we had. 2291 01:37:22,958 --> 01:37:24,625 But they're closing up the disco, man. 2292 01:37:28,250 --> 01:37:30,541 And you go home with a headache, and that was it. 2293 01:37:33,375 --> 01:37:36,041 [video game music] 2294 01:37:48,708 --> 01:37:50,083 - There was just nothing like the experience 2295 01:37:50,083 --> 01:37:51,541 of going to an arcade. 2296 01:37:51,541 --> 01:37:55,625 It was like a dark cave filled with simulators 2297 01:37:55,625 --> 01:37:59,250 that were like portals to other realities 2298 01:37:59,250 --> 01:38:00,708 Like I could pilot a starship over here, 2299 01:38:00,708 --> 01:38:02,500 or kill drug dealers over here, 2300 01:38:02,500 --> 01:38:04,375 or be a NBA champion. 2301 01:38:04,375 --> 01:38:06,416 You know, any fantasy that you could have 2302 01:38:06,416 --> 01:38:07,791 you could go and put in a quarter 2303 01:38:07,791 --> 01:38:09,541 and live out that fantasy. 2304 01:38:09,541 --> 01:38:11,500 - Whenever you think of arcade style, 2305 01:38:11,500 --> 01:38:14,916 an arcade-style product, a fast-paced product, 2306 01:38:14,916 --> 01:38:18,291 I think that was birthed by a lot of what we were producing. 2307 01:38:18,291 --> 01:38:22,541 - You cannot plan that coalescing of the talent. 2308 01:38:22,541 --> 01:38:24,791 Just the way everybody came together, 2309 01:38:24,791 --> 01:38:28,416 you know, that made all these games is so ridiculous. 2310 01:38:28,416 --> 01:38:31,208 Nobody planned that. Nobody wrote on a 2311 01:38:31,208 --> 01:38:32,583 piece of paper, now I need a Mark Turmell. 2312 01:38:32,583 --> 01:38:34,250 Now I need an Ed Boon type. 2313 01:38:34,250 --> 01:38:36,250 Now I need a Eugene Jarvis, or whatever. 2314 01:38:36,250 --> 01:38:38,125 - Remember who's creating these games. 2315 01:38:39,666 --> 01:38:43,208 Guy from Michigan, guy from California, guy from Illinois. 2316 01:38:43,208 --> 01:38:46,000 And as they're, they went through their life, 2317 01:38:46,000 --> 01:38:48,250 playing all these different things, 2318 01:38:48,250 --> 01:38:50,333 they said, "You know," their brains are turning, 2319 01:38:50,333 --> 01:38:52,791 "Wouldn't it be interesting if you could do this? 2320 01:38:52,791 --> 01:38:56,000 "Wouldn't it be interesting if you could do that?" 2321 01:38:56,000 --> 01:39:00,625 Then these guys grow up, and they come knocking on the door, 2322 01:39:00,625 --> 01:39:04,000 or they get a job working for a company like Midway 2323 01:39:04,000 --> 01:39:06,916 or Williams, and somebody says to them, 2324 01:39:06,916 --> 01:39:08,708 "Okay, what's your idea?" 2325 01:39:08,708 --> 01:39:10,708 "Oh, I got this brilliant idea! 2326 01:39:10,708 --> 01:39:11,791 "I want to do this!" 2327 01:39:13,000 --> 01:39:14,333 "Okay." 2328 01:39:14,333 --> 01:40:12,000 [upbeat video game music] 2329 01:40:12,000 --> 01:40:19,125 - I definitely put in code to have Pistons score in 2330 01:40:19,125 --> 01:40:22,541 late periods at a higher rate, than the Bulls 2331 01:40:22,541 --> 01:40:26,375 Because in that era, it was Pistons Vs Bulls 2332 01:40:26,375 --> 01:40:29,875 [Josh Tsui] So you're a Detroit fan working in Chicago 2333 01:40:29,875 --> 01:40:34,000 - Yeah, I was a Piston fan living in Chicago 2334 01:40:34,000 --> 01:40:40,625 and I had to watch the Jordan era unfold night after night 2335 01:40:40,791 --> 01:40:45,041 So I did my little part to make the Pistons 2336 01:40:45,041 --> 01:40:48,125 better than the Bulls. At least in NBA JAM 2337 01:40:48,125 --> 01:40:52,166 - I first discovered the game when I went to church 2338 01:40:52,166 --> 01:40:55,375 and I was going across the street to get some candy 2339 01:40:55,375 --> 01:40:57,625 and I ran into this brand new game that showed up 2340 01:40:57,625 --> 01:40:58,625 called Mortal Kombat 2341 01:40:58,750 --> 01:41:01,958 Blew my mind, I saw this one person playing and... 2342 01:41:01,958 --> 01:41:05,041 it was the perfect balance between gore and competitiveness 2343 01:41:05,041 --> 01:41:09,250 and a chance for a a nerdy little Asian kid to actually... 2344 01:41:09,250 --> 01:41:12,250 be toe to toe against all kinds of different people 2345 01:41:12,250 --> 01:41:14,500 I hated going to church, so every Sunday... 2346 01:41:14,500 --> 01:41:17,041 I would tell my mom I'm going to church all of a sudden 2347 01:41:17,041 --> 01:41:20,000 When I would go, I would go across the street 2348 01:41:20,000 --> 01:41:23,041 and play this videogame, literally for 2 hours straight 2349 01:41:23,041 --> 01:41:24,583 My mom didn't have a clue, but all of a sudden... 2350 01:41:24,583 --> 01:41:28,208 She didn't know why I loved church so much 2351 01:41:28,208 --> 01:41:31,958 - It was the mid 90s and I was approached by a PC programmer 2352 01:41:31,958 --> 01:41:33,708 about doing a possible skate game 2353 01:41:33,708 --> 01:41:38,333 I went with him to pitch to publishers 2354 01:41:38,333 --> 01:41:39,791 and we ended up at Midway 2355 01:41:40,208 --> 01:41:45,916 It was probably the most defeating meeting I ever had 2356 01:41:45,916 --> 01:41:49,333 The whole meeting felt contentious, 2357 01:41:49,333 --> 01:41:51,625 it was almost like we were wasting their time 2358 01:41:52,250 --> 01:41:55,291 They said, "Skateboarding is not even popular 2359 01:41:55,291 --> 01:41:58,458 "why would anyone want to play... 2360 01:41:58,458 --> 01:42:00,250 ...a videogame based on skateboarding?" 2361 01:42:00,250 --> 01:42:02,333 I've been in plenty of pitch meetings 2362 01:42:02,333 --> 01:42:04,500 I didn't necessarily expect everyone to 2363 01:42:04,500 --> 01:42:06,875 or there'd be bidding war for our game 2364 01:42:06,875 --> 01:42:10,583 but at the same time I didn't expect to be just beat down 2365 01:42:10,583 --> 01:42:15,333 I think I needed to go through that, it me up to 2366 01:42:16,791 --> 01:42:19,708 for what became Tony Hawk's Pro Skater