1 00:00:10,635 --> 00:00:14,139 [train horn sounds] 2 00:00:15,557 --> 00:00:17,559 [Dr. West] This is the old downtown. 3 00:00:18,268 --> 00:00:22,313 It was actually vibrant in the early '70s, 4 00:00:22,397 --> 00:00:24,274 when I first came to Hattiesburg. 5 00:00:24,357 --> 00:00:28,319 Now it's just a ghost of its former self. 6 00:00:30,405 --> 00:00:32,323 Now, here's the county courthouse. 7 00:00:33,491 --> 00:00:35,493 About every courthouse 8 00:00:36,327 --> 00:00:38,121 in every county in Mississippi, 9 00:00:38,747 --> 00:00:40,582 you'll find a Confederate memorial. 10 00:00:41,374 --> 00:00:43,209 I'm trying to think of... Have, uh... 11 00:00:43,835 --> 00:00:45,712 any of the courthouses I've been to, 12 00:00:45,795 --> 00:00:47,172 which have been numerous, 13 00:00:48,048 --> 00:00:50,717 if there was one that didn't have a Confederate memorial, 14 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:52,510 and I don't believe there is. 15 00:00:56,389 --> 00:00:57,807 And you'd have to admit, you know, 16 00:00:57,891 --> 00:01:00,935 from an artistic standpoint, it's very beautiful. 17 00:01:01,811 --> 00:01:02,812 Very detailed. 18 00:01:05,857 --> 00:01:08,693 Taking it away does not better anything. 19 00:01:10,278 --> 00:01:12,530 Erasing history is ignorant. 20 00:01:13,573 --> 00:01:15,241 It benefits no one. 21 00:01:18,870 --> 00:01:20,830 They want to erase me from history. 22 00:01:26,169 --> 00:01:28,713 When I was active in death investigation, 23 00:01:29,756 --> 00:01:33,468 we used the state-of-the-art, the best that we had at the time. 24 00:01:35,637 --> 00:01:40,725 To come back 20 or 25 years later and criticize us for it is ridiculous. 25 00:01:42,811 --> 00:01:45,230 It's our job to be controversial. 26 00:01:49,359 --> 00:01:51,111 If you don't like the way I do it, 27 00:01:51,194 --> 00:01:53,279 get up off your dead ass, 28 00:01:53,780 --> 00:01:55,740 go to the morgue every weekend, 29 00:01:55,824 --> 00:01:59,077 spend it with 15 or 20 dead babies, 30 00:01:59,619 --> 00:02:02,705 come out of there without being a fruitcake. 31 00:02:04,332 --> 00:02:05,792 I'm just the messenger 32 00:02:06,292 --> 00:02:08,503 who collects the evidence and brings it to the jury. 33 00:02:10,964 --> 00:02:12,632 And if somewhere down the road, 34 00:02:12,715 --> 00:02:15,718 some new scientific method comes out and says, 35 00:02:15,802 --> 00:02:17,095 "This man is innocent," 36 00:02:17,846 --> 00:02:19,973 we can open the door and let him out. 37 00:02:20,974 --> 00:02:22,976 [opening theme music playing] 38 00:03:02,348 --> 00:03:03,516 Court's in recess. 39 00:03:03,641 --> 00:03:07,353 [cheers and applause] 40 00:03:11,524 --> 00:03:15,153 [Peter Neufeld] When we first started out taking these wrongful conviction cases, 41 00:03:15,236 --> 00:03:18,281 we were very much focused on just using the DNA 42 00:03:18,364 --> 00:03:19,866 to exonerate people. 43 00:03:20,325 --> 00:03:22,994 - [judge] You're free to go. - [applause] 44 00:03:23,578 --> 00:03:25,580 Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I'm free. I'm free. 45 00:03:25,663 --> 00:03:28,374 [applause and cheers] 46 00:03:28,458 --> 00:03:30,460 Oh, yes! 47 00:03:30,543 --> 00:03:32,378 [Peter] But we quickly realized that 48 00:03:32,921 --> 00:03:35,590 the much more pressing question to answer is, 49 00:03:36,591 --> 00:03:39,010 how did they get into prison in the first place? 50 00:03:39,385 --> 00:03:41,137 And that's what we set out to do. 51 00:03:41,221 --> 00:03:43,223 [elevator dings] 52 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,728 We set up what's called a strategic litigation unit, 53 00:03:49,229 --> 00:03:53,274 a special unit of lawyers who will look at systemic problems 54 00:03:54,484 --> 00:03:56,736 and try and change the law. 55 00:03:59,113 --> 00:04:02,450 [Chris Fabricant I think we need to do more talking with him as a general matter. 56 00:04:02,533 --> 00:04:06,287 Didn't you talk to Spencer about how rigorously that rule is applied, 57 00:04:06,371 --> 00:04:07,914 and it sounds like medium? 58 00:04:08,539 --> 00:04:11,459 Okay. I'm going to be gone the next couple days. 59 00:04:16,297 --> 00:04:19,467 With policy work, it's very important to do an upstream fix, 60 00:04:20,426 --> 00:04:24,764 because by the time unreliable forensic evidence is in front of a jury, 61 00:04:24,847 --> 00:04:26,057 it's really too late. 62 00:04:29,394 --> 00:04:33,982 Most lawyers are terrified of science. So are judges, you know, so are jurors. 63 00:04:35,191 --> 00:04:37,860 Part of my job is to highlight the areas 64 00:04:37,944 --> 00:04:40,822 where forensics really have never been established 65 00:04:40,905 --> 00:04:42,824 as valid and reliable evidence. 66 00:04:46,869 --> 00:04:51,457 Courts have been admitting this evidence for 50 years, 67 00:04:52,041 --> 00:04:53,042 and they were wrong. 68 00:04:53,626 --> 00:04:55,003 Every single time. 69 00:04:55,503 --> 00:04:59,090 Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. They didn't know what they were talking about, right? 70 00:04:59,173 --> 00:05:01,009 You have, in popular culture, 71 00:05:01,426 --> 00:05:04,304 scientific evidence that's presented as infallible. 72 00:05:04,387 --> 00:05:06,806 Right? There's a CSI episode with bite marks, it goes... 73 00:05:06,889 --> 00:05:09,767 [mimics beeping] "Match!" Right? "We got him!" 74 00:05:09,851 --> 00:05:12,579 Just because somebody is an expert witness doesn't mean they're right. 75 00:05:12,603 --> 00:05:14,203 They're as full of shit as anybody else. 76 00:05:14,939 --> 00:05:16,065 Let me ask you a question: 77 00:05:16,149 --> 00:05:18,484 How many of you have heard of the 2009 78 00:05:18,568 --> 00:05:22,113 National Academy of Sciences report on the state of forensics in this country? 79 00:05:23,948 --> 00:05:26,659 That's good. That's good. It's getting much better. 80 00:05:26,743 --> 00:05:29,537 It's probably the most important document that you can have 81 00:05:29,954 --> 00:05:32,957 as a defense attorney as it relates to forensic sciences. 82 00:05:36,002 --> 00:05:41,215 The NAS report was a thunderbolt across the forensic science community in 2009. 83 00:05:43,384 --> 00:05:46,971 The National Academy of Science is the foremost scientific body 84 00:05:47,055 --> 00:05:48,055 in the United States. 85 00:05:48,473 --> 00:05:51,559 It's their responsibility to advise the federal government 86 00:05:51,642 --> 00:05:54,479 on all policy involving science and medicine. 87 00:05:55,521 --> 00:05:57,273 What the National Academy is saying 88 00:05:57,357 --> 00:06:00,193 is that, for dozens of different forensic disciplines, 89 00:06:00,276 --> 00:06:02,987 the fundamental principles of science was never there. 90 00:06:10,036 --> 00:06:11,913 It's called forensic science, 91 00:06:11,996 --> 00:06:14,290 but it didn't start as a science. 92 00:06:18,836 --> 00:06:23,883 It started as creative ideas by detectives to solve a crime. 93 00:06:27,220 --> 00:06:29,680 People think it is so powerful. 94 00:06:32,934 --> 00:06:34,894 [Peter] They call it the CSI effect. 95 00:06:35,937 --> 00:06:40,233 People get to see some good-looking, young forensic scientist 96 00:06:40,316 --> 00:06:41,818 go out to a crime scene 97 00:06:42,318 --> 00:06:43,778 and solve the murder. 98 00:06:44,195 --> 00:06:45,279 See these drag marks? 99 00:06:45,363 --> 00:06:47,740 They match the shoes your victim was wearing. 100 00:06:47,824 --> 00:06:50,993 [Peter] With crime shows like Law & Order and NCIS... 101 00:06:51,077 --> 00:06:52,620 [woman] And I give you... 102 00:06:52,703 --> 00:06:54,205 the killer's incisors. 103 00:06:54,705 --> 00:06:59,419 [Peter]...it's really hard for jurors to set aside those preconceived notions. 104 00:07:01,003 --> 00:07:03,214 Somebody walks into a courtroom wearing a lab coat, 105 00:07:03,297 --> 00:07:04,632 they must be telling the truth. 106 00:07:10,263 --> 00:07:12,014 [Chris] Because bite mark analysis 107 00:07:12,098 --> 00:07:13,683 is the curious manifestation 108 00:07:13,766 --> 00:07:16,519 of the worst types of forensic sciences, 109 00:07:17,061 --> 00:07:19,564 we decided to start there, with bite mark cases. 110 00:07:23,192 --> 00:07:27,697 My paralegal at the time came across Keith Harward's case. 111 00:07:33,453 --> 00:07:37,748 [woman 1] The evidence against Keith was incredibly weak. 112 00:07:42,170 --> 00:07:45,131 None of the physical evidence pointed to him. 113 00:07:45,214 --> 00:07:48,134 In fact, there was physical evidence known 114 00:07:48,259 --> 00:07:50,219 that pointed away from Keith. 115 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:59,937 All of that exculpatory evidence was rationalized away 116 00:08:00,396 --> 00:08:03,149 because the dentist said he was the biter. 117 00:08:05,193 --> 00:08:07,820 Innocent or guilty, there's something wrong with that conviction. 118 00:08:09,489 --> 00:08:12,617 [Chris] Nobody had heard from Mr. Harward for decades. 119 00:08:12,700 --> 00:08:15,453 He'd just been literally dying in prison. 120 00:08:21,125 --> 00:08:23,586 [Keith Harward] To the day I was convicted, I felt like, 121 00:08:23,669 --> 00:08:27,131 somebody's going to say, "Uh, this is a mistake." 122 00:08:30,927 --> 00:08:32,553 I am a true railroad case 123 00:08:32,637 --> 00:08:35,723 where they put me on that train and sent me down the tracks, 124 00:08:35,806 --> 00:08:36,891 and didn't look back. 125 00:08:52,323 --> 00:08:53,533 [man 2] It was a big deal. 126 00:08:54,825 --> 00:08:57,578 When somebody comes into a family's home... 127 00:09:00,706 --> 00:09:02,416 murders a husband, 128 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,005 and sexually assaults the wife... 129 00:09:14,053 --> 00:09:15,137 In Newport News, 130 00:09:15,513 --> 00:09:17,723 that's a pretty sensational crime. 131 00:09:20,977 --> 00:09:23,396 [woman] He was in my house for about three hours. 132 00:09:24,522 --> 00:09:26,315 I was hit several times, 133 00:09:26,399 --> 00:09:28,234 and I was repeatedly raped. 134 00:09:29,860 --> 00:09:32,071 He threatened to kill me and get my daughter. 135 00:09:32,780 --> 00:09:34,865 He kept reminding me how nice and tight she would be 136 00:09:34,949 --> 00:09:37,243 if I did not do what I was told to do. 137 00:09:39,912 --> 00:09:42,540 He bit me from my ankles all the way up to my thighs, 138 00:09:42,623 --> 00:09:46,335 and left perfect imprints of his teeth marks. 139 00:09:50,006 --> 00:09:52,174 That was the hardest thing, not to... 140 00:09:52,758 --> 00:09:55,303 scream or make a noise while he was doing that. 141 00:09:56,429 --> 00:09:58,639 But I didn't want to wake the kids up. 142 00:10:05,438 --> 00:10:08,524 I don't know how long I was there before I got up and called the police. 143 00:10:11,569 --> 00:10:12,778 The guy was young, 144 00:10:13,362 --> 00:10:16,699 clean-shaven, kind of like a sandy, browny-blonde hair. 145 00:10:16,782 --> 00:10:17,825 He was thin. 146 00:10:17,908 --> 00:10:19,577 He had a sailor uniform on, 147 00:10:19,910 --> 00:10:22,705 with those little Vs on his shirts, 148 00:10:23,039 --> 00:10:24,373 and those little dog tags. 149 00:10:25,249 --> 00:10:28,085 I remember the dog tags 'cause they were cold up against my chest. 150 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,387 [Keith] I wanted to travel, I wanted to see the country. 151 00:10:39,305 --> 00:10:41,807 Travel round and meet people, and do that kind of stuff. 152 00:10:42,516 --> 00:10:44,143 So that's how I ended up in the Navy. 153 00:10:46,187 --> 00:10:47,521 In Newport News, 154 00:10:47,605 --> 00:10:49,982 I was stationed on the Carl Vinson. 155 00:10:52,151 --> 00:10:55,071 And that's kind of where that story started. 156 00:10:57,865 --> 00:11:00,034 [Teresa] The police couldn't find out who it was. 157 00:11:00,451 --> 00:11:03,913 They kept coming up with dead end after dead end, so they didn't know. 158 00:11:05,414 --> 00:11:06,666 The days went by. 159 00:11:07,083 --> 00:11:08,834 I was petrified every minute. 160 00:11:09,460 --> 00:11:10,544 I couldn't be alone. 161 00:11:11,420 --> 00:11:13,839 I was afraid he was gonna come back and get me. 162 00:11:19,261 --> 00:11:21,514 [Keith] I met a local lady at a bar, 163 00:11:22,098 --> 00:11:23,933 and we start up a relationship. 164 00:11:25,685 --> 00:11:28,187 We got into a fight, and it got physical, 165 00:11:28,270 --> 00:11:31,148 and I bit her on the shoulder. 166 00:11:32,108 --> 00:11:33,609 She went to the hospital 167 00:11:33,943 --> 00:11:39,198 and that's apparently when the detectives got involved with it. 168 00:11:41,117 --> 00:11:45,788 They arranged to have Teresa attend a lower court hearing 169 00:11:45,871 --> 00:11:49,333 where the sailor had to go to answer the assault charge. 170 00:11:51,460 --> 00:11:53,254 [Teresa] The police took me in a courtroom. 171 00:11:54,130 --> 00:11:55,673 I was petrified to be there. 172 00:11:57,091 --> 00:11:58,008 They tried to ask me, 173 00:11:58,092 --> 00:12:01,052 "Can you identify him? Is that him?" I'm like, "It doesn't sound like him." 174 00:12:03,264 --> 00:12:06,434 They were really hoping that I would just say, "Yes, it's him." 175 00:12:06,851 --> 00:12:09,103 But if I could have recognized his voice, 176 00:12:09,687 --> 00:12:11,063 I probably would've lost it. 177 00:12:13,649 --> 00:12:17,236 [Frank Green] She couldn't identify him. However, a few days later, 178 00:12:17,319 --> 00:12:20,948 a security guard said he had seen a sailor come in 179 00:12:21,031 --> 00:12:23,993 who had blood on his uniform early that morning. 180 00:12:24,910 --> 00:12:28,289 The security guard was shown six mugshots, 181 00:12:28,372 --> 00:12:32,710 and he identified Keith Harward as the sailor he had seen 182 00:12:32,793 --> 00:12:34,670 walk through the gate early that morning 183 00:12:34,754 --> 00:12:36,088 with blood on his uniform. 184 00:12:40,301 --> 00:12:42,678 [Keith] They took me down to a local dentist 185 00:12:42,762 --> 00:12:44,555 and had molds made of my teeth, 186 00:12:44,638 --> 00:12:48,392 so they could send them off to these odontologists. 187 00:12:51,270 --> 00:12:54,231 [Frank] Two different forensic odontologists 188 00:12:54,315 --> 00:12:56,901 both agreed he was the person, 189 00:12:57,359 --> 00:12:59,820 within a reasonable scientific certainty, 190 00:12:59,904 --> 00:13:01,530 who bit Teresa. 191 00:13:05,075 --> 00:13:07,995 The bite mark evidence was exotic, it was new. 192 00:13:08,746 --> 00:13:10,915 Without it, they really didn't have a case. 193 00:13:18,798 --> 00:13:21,550 [Ken Murov] Shortly after Keith was indicted, 194 00:13:22,510 --> 00:13:25,471 the chief judge called me on the phone and he said, 195 00:13:25,554 --> 00:13:28,432 "I want you to represent Harward. 196 00:13:28,516 --> 00:13:30,351 Do you have a problem with that?" 197 00:13:30,434 --> 00:13:33,437 And, being a 33-year-old lawyer, 198 00:13:33,521 --> 00:13:35,356 I wasn't gonna tell the chief judge, "No." 199 00:13:37,858 --> 00:13:40,194 It was a high-profile case. 200 00:13:40,277 --> 00:13:43,864 Downtown Newport News, circuit court. 201 00:13:48,369 --> 00:13:53,207 I was not expecting a finding of not guilty, 202 00:13:53,290 --> 00:13:57,878 because of the compelling nature of the bite mark evidence. 203 00:14:04,260 --> 00:14:05,845 The forensic dentist, 204 00:14:05,928 --> 00:14:08,055 Lowell Levine from New York City, 205 00:14:08,138 --> 00:14:11,559 testified that Keith had a central incisor 206 00:14:11,642 --> 00:14:14,895 that was chipped at a 45-degree angle. 207 00:14:14,979 --> 00:14:16,981 And so he just focused on 208 00:14:17,064 --> 00:14:21,902 how Keith's dentition matched up with that impression on her thigh. 209 00:14:22,736 --> 00:14:26,282 ...within a reasonable scientific certainty. 210 00:14:26,365 --> 00:14:28,200 [Frank] Dr. Lowell Levine, 211 00:14:28,284 --> 00:14:30,202 he was a celebrity in the field. 212 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,874 By the time they were done qualifying him as an expert, 213 00:14:35,207 --> 00:14:38,544 the jury was willing to believe anything he said. 214 00:14:41,714 --> 00:14:45,301 [Keith] So when he gets up with a pointer and a big four-by-six photograph 215 00:14:45,384 --> 00:14:47,094 and starts pointing, "See this... 216 00:14:47,177 --> 00:14:50,890 it's shaped like a fish hook, and the tooth is turned this way 217 00:14:50,973 --> 00:14:52,558 so that matches, so, 218 00:14:52,975 --> 00:14:54,310 by God, it's him. 219 00:14:54,393 --> 00:14:56,437 And I say so because I'm an expert, 220 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,606 and I'm a world-renowned expert." 221 00:15:01,775 --> 00:15:04,445 [Ken] It was like he was spoon-feeding the jury, 222 00:15:04,904 --> 00:15:06,572 you know, they were eating it up. 223 00:15:09,783 --> 00:15:10,784 [Keith] I was done. 224 00:15:11,368 --> 00:15:13,329 That was it. The jury, I was guilty. 225 00:15:13,412 --> 00:15:15,456 He didn't have to say anything else. I was guilty. 226 00:15:19,501 --> 00:15:21,629 [keys jangle in lock] 227 00:15:22,713 --> 00:15:24,256 [door closes] 228 00:15:25,758 --> 00:15:27,760 [indistinct radio chatter] 229 00:15:37,937 --> 00:15:40,814 [Peter] You think you know somebody when you visit them in prison, 230 00:15:41,523 --> 00:15:42,650 but you don't. 231 00:15:49,615 --> 00:15:52,117 It's only when you meet their mothers 232 00:15:52,701 --> 00:15:55,913 and their siblings and their neighborhoods 233 00:15:55,996 --> 00:15:59,333 that you finally see that this is a complete human being. 234 00:16:06,632 --> 00:16:08,801 [indistinct chatter] 235 00:16:09,343 --> 00:16:14,223 [Peter] Levon and Kennedy's cases were particularly special to me, 236 00:16:15,474 --> 00:16:18,769 being able to be there when they won their freedom. 237 00:16:27,903 --> 00:16:30,906 We stayed in touch with Levon, and then we found out that... 238 00:16:31,907 --> 00:16:33,033 he was sick. 239 00:16:33,742 --> 00:16:34,952 You gave us a great day. 240 00:16:35,035 --> 00:16:37,235 - [Peter chuckles] - [man] It's so good to see you, man. 241 00:16:37,496 --> 00:16:39,707 [laughing] It's good to see you, too. 242 00:16:40,207 --> 00:16:41,500 Oh, man. 243 00:16:41,583 --> 00:16:42,626 How's it been going? 244 00:16:43,210 --> 00:16:44,795 Things are going well. Dinah! 245 00:16:44,878 --> 00:16:46,356 - How are you? - Good to see you, too. 246 00:16:46,380 --> 00:16:47,380 [Dinah chuckles] 247 00:16:50,426 --> 00:16:52,052 [Peter] How many chickens you got? 248 00:16:52,136 --> 00:16:54,221 Oh, I can't count 'em all. 249 00:16:55,055 --> 00:16:56,807 - Do they do different things? - Yeah. 250 00:16:57,516 --> 00:16:58,600 What do they do? 251 00:16:59,727 --> 00:17:01,437 [Levon] That rooster right there 252 00:17:02,229 --> 00:17:04,314 produce green eggs. 253 00:17:06,442 --> 00:17:07,443 Solid green eggs. 254 00:17:08,318 --> 00:17:11,864 And then I got some in that pen over there, light blue eggs. 255 00:17:11,947 --> 00:17:12,781 [rooster crows] 256 00:17:12,865 --> 00:17:14,700 So, when Easter time comes, 257 00:17:14,783 --> 00:17:16,994 you don't have to color no eggs if you get 'em from me 258 00:17:17,077 --> 00:17:18,370 'cause they already colored. 259 00:17:20,456 --> 00:17:22,809 [Peter] You ever talk to that doctor from New York any more? 260 00:17:22,833 --> 00:17:25,878 - [Levon] Mm-hmm. - [Peter] Did, uh, he have anything to say? 261 00:17:25,961 --> 00:17:28,380 [Dinah] Uh, no, he was just basically saying that 262 00:17:28,464 --> 00:17:31,383 they could do what they said they would try for the surgery, 263 00:17:31,467 --> 00:17:33,467 and he said he wasn't gonna try to go through that. 264 00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:35,471 [chickens cluck] 265 00:17:39,641 --> 00:17:41,518 When I was doing chemo, 266 00:17:41,852 --> 00:17:43,187 they was running that, um, 267 00:17:44,688 --> 00:17:47,483 that medicine through me that makes my hands numb. 268 00:17:48,776 --> 00:17:53,238 I didn't have the touch that I had to draw with, I wasn't still enough. 269 00:17:53,697 --> 00:17:58,035 Now the feeling's kind of coming back into my hands since they took me off that. 270 00:17:59,745 --> 00:18:02,122 The feeling is kind of coming back into my hands now. 271 00:18:02,206 --> 00:18:05,584 Maybe I'll be able enough to finish my artwork out. 272 00:18:07,377 --> 00:18:08,754 When I got out of prison, 273 00:18:08,837 --> 00:18:12,716 I was selling greeting cards and I was making key chains too. 274 00:18:14,384 --> 00:18:18,472 This is one of my favorites, one of my best sellers. 275 00:18:21,016 --> 00:18:24,228 It's the hummingbird and the flowers. 276 00:18:24,311 --> 00:18:26,939 Okay, this design was a hot seller. 277 00:18:27,773 --> 00:18:29,858 Got a little love in it, got a little... 278 00:18:31,443 --> 00:18:33,821 little scrape to it, was this. 279 00:18:37,032 --> 00:18:38,752 I don't think I'm through with this one yet. 280 00:18:38,826 --> 00:18:40,619 No. I got to complete it. 281 00:18:41,370 --> 00:18:43,288 But, like I said, I feel better 282 00:18:43,372 --> 00:18:46,375 and I'm a go back to doing my artwork. 283 00:18:57,636 --> 00:18:59,388 I've always been strong in my life. 284 00:19:02,015 --> 00:19:05,394 What I'm going through, I'm gonna fight it with everything I've got. 285 00:19:08,021 --> 00:19:11,441 I'm 'a make it just the same way when I went on and did them eighteen years. 286 00:19:11,525 --> 00:19:12,525 I'm 'a make it. 287 00:19:21,535 --> 00:19:25,330 I'm 'a put God first, I'm 'a fight with everything I got, like I did then. 288 00:19:37,509 --> 00:19:39,344 [engine starts] 289 00:19:48,812 --> 00:19:52,149 Me and my brother James, we always have been close to one another, you know, 290 00:19:52,566 --> 00:19:55,819 and since I haven't been working whatever job it is he can get 291 00:19:56,195 --> 00:19:58,071 he'll ask me to help him out with it. 292 00:19:59,948 --> 00:20:01,200 I help him all the time. 293 00:20:09,833 --> 00:20:15,672 [Peter] Kennedy and Levon were each given the sum of $50,000 a year for ten years. 294 00:20:17,716 --> 00:20:19,551 That ten years has come and gone, 295 00:20:19,635 --> 00:20:21,261 so there's no more compensation. 296 00:20:22,804 --> 00:20:24,223 So for the rest of his life, 297 00:20:24,306 --> 00:20:27,517 he not only has no compensation for the wrongful conviction, 298 00:20:28,185 --> 00:20:33,023 but he isn't eligible for Social Security because he didn't work enough quarters. 299 00:20:34,816 --> 00:20:37,277 It's very hard to find meaningful employment 300 00:20:37,361 --> 00:20:39,738 after being locked up for something you didn't do. 301 00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:56,171 [singing softly] 302 00:21:02,636 --> 00:21:04,805 [indistinct chatter] 303 00:21:08,183 --> 00:21:10,411 Well I told you if you ain't cookin' get out the kitchen. 304 00:21:10,435 --> 00:21:12,854 Would've been through by now I done got hungry. 305 00:21:12,938 --> 00:21:17,317 [continues singing] 306 00:21:19,111 --> 00:21:20,696 I don't know what I'm 'a do. 307 00:21:25,325 --> 00:21:28,662 I'd rather work though, 'cause you know just sitting around here 308 00:21:28,745 --> 00:21:30,745 every day not having nothing to do would be boring. 309 00:21:35,419 --> 00:21:37,421 [Annie continues singing softly] 310 00:21:55,188 --> 00:21:58,734 I just can't walk around holding a grudge. 311 00:22:03,572 --> 00:22:08,076 It's happened. It's over. I'm not just gon' dwell on the past. I just, 312 00:22:08,869 --> 00:22:09,911 I just move on. 313 00:22:25,761 --> 00:22:27,763 [Dr. West] All murder cases are forever. 314 00:22:28,972 --> 00:22:31,516 Either the suspect dies, or you die. 315 00:22:32,017 --> 00:22:33,935 That's the only way you get out of it. 316 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,483 You will always be bound together. 317 00:22:47,032 --> 00:22:52,204 The Innocence Project won with the Brewer and Brooks case. 318 00:22:52,829 --> 00:22:55,624 They feel that now they have the impetus 319 00:22:55,707 --> 00:22:58,335 to reverse every case I ever testified in. 320 00:23:00,712 --> 00:23:02,005 Yes, I can be wrong. 321 00:23:02,714 --> 00:23:06,343 Have they presented me any new evidence 322 00:23:06,426 --> 00:23:08,011 that would change my opinion? 323 00:23:09,388 --> 00:23:10,388 No. 324 00:23:10,764 --> 00:23:13,392 They will not allow a 1% error rate. 325 00:23:13,475 --> 00:23:15,894 They will not allow 0.5% of error rate. 326 00:23:15,977 --> 00:23:19,106 You must be perfect, 327 00:23:19,189 --> 00:23:21,942 or the Innocence Project say you shouldn't testify. 328 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,920 [Chris] Because there are dentists that are willing to go into court 329 00:23:30,992 --> 00:23:32,202 and spew nonsense, 330 00:23:33,370 --> 00:23:34,704 we have to be resistant. 331 00:23:39,584 --> 00:23:41,586 Resisting means coming to the conferences, 332 00:23:41,670 --> 00:23:44,756 it means resisting them in court, it means resisting them in the media. 333 00:23:51,555 --> 00:23:53,640 For many, many people in this industry, 334 00:23:54,057 --> 00:23:58,145 the American Academy of Forensic Sciences' annual meeting, 335 00:23:59,438 --> 00:24:01,606 it's the most important meeting of the year. 336 00:24:10,699 --> 00:24:15,078 There is no manner of forensics that are not up for presentation here. 337 00:24:16,663 --> 00:24:18,665 It's too short - stop. 338 00:24:19,458 --> 00:24:23,795 [Chris] Separating out real science from faux science is very difficult to do. 339 00:24:24,296 --> 00:24:25,714 Blood pattern analysis. 340 00:24:25,797 --> 00:24:27,007 Blood decomposition. 341 00:24:27,090 --> 00:24:29,593 We actually do fire investigation. 342 00:24:29,676 --> 00:24:31,011 Forensic podiatry. 343 00:24:31,094 --> 00:24:33,305 The science of footprints, actually. 344 00:24:33,388 --> 00:24:35,015 [Chris] There are real scientists, 345 00:24:35,098 --> 00:24:36,558 there are junk scientists, 346 00:24:36,641 --> 00:24:38,393 and there is everything in between. 347 00:24:39,519 --> 00:24:42,039 It's important to keep a finger on the pulse of what's emerging. 348 00:24:42,105 --> 00:24:45,150 Cops always think that someone lit the fire. 349 00:24:45,233 --> 00:24:48,403 Now we can go in and we can figure out where we're losing DNA, 350 00:24:48,487 --> 00:24:49,863 and we can make it better. 351 00:24:50,363 --> 00:24:54,117 [Chris] I have an opportunity to meet with the experts we're going to use in trials. 352 00:24:54,201 --> 00:24:56,578 So that was, like, your first exoneration? 353 00:24:56,661 --> 00:24:59,498 The science is what it is. It's either good science or bad science. 354 00:25:00,957 --> 00:25:03,668 [Chris] There has to be some pushback when you just get nonsense 355 00:25:03,752 --> 00:25:05,837 being spewed as scientific reality. 356 00:25:06,171 --> 00:25:07,756 We're talking about life and liberty. 357 00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:13,970 During this study, I trained and tested two dogs. 358 00:25:14,054 --> 00:25:15,430 Very important. 359 00:25:15,514 --> 00:25:17,724 Sex determination from the footprint. 360 00:25:17,807 --> 00:25:21,102 In females - in females, the ridges are very fine. 361 00:25:23,647 --> 00:25:25,565 [Chris] Suddenly a wild idea here 362 00:25:25,649 --> 00:25:28,652 will be presented and end up putting somebody in death row. 363 00:25:28,985 --> 00:25:30,570 That's what we're trying to avoid. 364 00:25:32,572 --> 00:25:33,865 [man 2] Welcome to Just Science, 365 00:25:33,949 --> 00:25:35,789 the podcast for forensic science professionals. 366 00:25:35,867 --> 00:25:37,494 I'm your host, John Morgan. 367 00:25:37,577 --> 00:25:41,915 Today we have a very special episode about the non-controversial topic 368 00:25:41,998 --> 00:25:44,376 - of bite mark evidence examination. - [laughter] 369 00:25:44,459 --> 00:25:46,461 You guys are ready for that, I hope. 370 00:25:46,545 --> 00:25:49,506 Dick, I want to turn to you, because bite mark evidence, 371 00:25:50,090 --> 00:25:53,969 it was very, very much popularized when you worked the Ted Bundy case, 372 00:25:54,052 --> 00:25:57,597 which, of course, was a great success for bite mark examination. 373 00:25:57,681 --> 00:25:59,724 At the trial, you said, 374 00:25:59,808 --> 00:26:02,102 "They made the marks." Ted Bundy's teeth made the marks. 375 00:26:02,185 --> 00:26:03,937 Would you testify in the same way today? 376 00:26:04,020 --> 00:26:05,230 In a heartbeat. 377 00:26:05,313 --> 00:26:07,433 - Even with the uncertainties associated... - You bet. 378 00:26:07,482 --> 00:26:11,528 Yes, sir. In that case, with that kind of a bite, yes, I would. 379 00:26:11,611 --> 00:26:13,697 There were so many teeth that matched, 380 00:26:13,780 --> 00:26:17,075 plus the uniqueness of the fractures of his upper front teeth. 381 00:26:17,450 --> 00:26:20,370 Talking about chipped teeth or unusual bite marks, anything like that, 382 00:26:20,453 --> 00:26:22,622 is gross subjective speculation 383 00:26:22,706 --> 00:26:24,207 masquerading as science. 384 00:26:24,291 --> 00:26:26,835 What we advocate for is that the research be done, 385 00:26:26,918 --> 00:26:28,461 it's done in a rigorous way, 386 00:26:28,545 --> 00:26:29,545 it's repeated, 387 00:26:29,588 --> 00:26:32,257 and that we know what the thresholds of the technique are. 388 00:26:32,340 --> 00:26:36,636 Do you all have any special expertise from dentistry that makes you better 389 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,888 at bite mark examination than you would be otherwise? 390 00:26:38,972 --> 00:26:43,518 We do have expertise, because we take bite records on patients all the time. 391 00:26:43,977 --> 00:26:48,398 With bite marks, we know that there are changes due to temperature... 392 00:26:48,481 --> 00:26:50,775 - [Chris coughs] - ...gravity, humidity, 393 00:26:50,859 --> 00:26:53,737 and time on a live individual. 394 00:26:53,820 --> 00:26:56,865 Now, on a dead individual, it's a totally different picture. 395 00:26:59,868 --> 00:27:03,538 Any critic that wants to throw out bite mark evidence altogether 396 00:27:03,622 --> 00:27:04,956 is making a huge mistake. 397 00:27:05,373 --> 00:27:08,918 Forensic odontology is accepted worldwide. 398 00:27:30,315 --> 00:27:33,485 Bite mark testimony was given by Dr. Richard Souviron. 399 00:27:33,568 --> 00:27:36,279 He's an important member of the ABFO 400 00:27:36,363 --> 00:27:39,491 which is the American Board for Forensic Odontology. 401 00:27:39,574 --> 00:27:41,910 Ted Bundy's teeth had unique, distinctive features 402 00:27:41,993 --> 00:27:45,622 which were clearly visible on the bite mark pattern on the victim. 403 00:27:47,374 --> 00:27:51,336 Now in India, a landmark case where bite mark testimony was used 404 00:27:51,419 --> 00:27:54,130 was the case from Maharashtra in which I was involved. 405 00:27:54,214 --> 00:27:58,927 A fourteen-year-old girl was brutally raped and murdered. 406 00:28:02,055 --> 00:28:04,557 There were protests to hang them immediately. 407 00:28:06,559 --> 00:28:09,771 We need to realize what are the limitations of a science. 408 00:28:09,854 --> 00:28:15,068 And at the same time realize that it would be foolish to ignore it completely. 409 00:28:17,779 --> 00:28:20,949 In India, we follow guidelines from the American Board. 410 00:28:22,367 --> 00:28:24,035 The ABFO guidelines. 411 00:28:26,830 --> 00:28:30,583 [man] The ABFO is the standard-setter for the world 412 00:28:31,084 --> 00:28:33,086 as far as it comes to bite marks. 413 00:28:34,129 --> 00:28:38,633 They are the ones that say that you have the educational and practical experience 414 00:28:38,717 --> 00:28:40,176 to be able to do this work. 415 00:28:52,731 --> 00:28:54,858 When I was president of the ABFO, 416 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,610 more exonerations started coming out. 417 00:29:01,197 --> 00:29:04,242 People were starting to think more research needs to be done. 418 00:29:05,243 --> 00:29:07,370 If we can prove that bite marks work, 419 00:29:07,454 --> 00:29:08,580 then let's do it. 420 00:29:09,956 --> 00:29:11,666 So, we developed a study. 421 00:29:16,755 --> 00:29:19,424 We developed 100 cases, 422 00:29:20,508 --> 00:29:22,802 and those were then sent to all the diplomates, 423 00:29:22,886 --> 00:29:25,221 every person that's board-certified only, 424 00:29:25,305 --> 00:29:27,307 and they were asked, is it a bite mark, 425 00:29:27,682 --> 00:29:29,267 is it not a bite mark, 426 00:29:29,350 --> 00:29:30,727 or it's suggestive of a bite mark? 427 00:29:30,810 --> 00:29:34,272 We're trying to look at levels of agreement among diplomates. 428 00:29:35,648 --> 00:29:38,651 I thought, going into this research project, 429 00:29:38,735 --> 00:29:41,780 that we were going to prove this first step. 430 00:29:43,323 --> 00:29:45,241 And then the results started to come in. 431 00:29:45,742 --> 00:29:48,203 Some of the cases are a third of the people say 432 00:29:48,286 --> 00:29:49,996 that is absolutely a bite mark, 433 00:29:50,455 --> 00:29:54,834 a third of the people say that's absolutely not a bite mark, 434 00:29:54,918 --> 00:29:58,004 and a third of the people say, well, that's suggestive of a bite mark. 435 00:29:58,671 --> 00:30:00,548 We are the ABFO, 436 00:30:00,632 --> 00:30:02,342 we are the subject matter experts on this, 437 00:30:02,425 --> 00:30:05,094 and we don't even agree on what a bite mark is. 438 00:30:11,768 --> 00:30:13,853 This is how you do things in real life. 439 00:30:13,937 --> 00:30:15,438 I'm presented a case, 440 00:30:15,855 --> 00:30:19,317 and I'm asked by a police department, typically, 441 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,361 "Please take a look at this. Is this a bite mark?" 442 00:30:21,444 --> 00:30:22,737 I'm asked to give an opinion. 443 00:30:23,905 --> 00:30:26,199 I don't think there's a single case 444 00:30:26,658 --> 00:30:29,035 where everybody agrees it is a bite mark. 445 00:30:29,494 --> 00:30:31,246 That's where we get into trouble. 446 00:30:32,622 --> 00:30:33,957 People bruise differently. 447 00:30:34,457 --> 00:30:36,042 You go in and you get your blood taken, 448 00:30:36,125 --> 00:30:38,878 somebody sticks a needle in you. If you have a bruise afterwards, 449 00:30:38,962 --> 00:30:41,130 the needle was, you know, tiny, 450 00:30:41,214 --> 00:30:42,715 and your bruise is this big. 451 00:30:43,716 --> 00:30:45,552 You're making these comparisons 452 00:30:45,635 --> 00:30:47,846 and, at the end of the day, really, 453 00:30:48,429 --> 00:30:49,806 you're looking at a bruise. 454 00:30:51,766 --> 00:30:55,687 [Eric Lander] The premise of bite mark evidence is that teeth are unique, 455 00:30:55,770 --> 00:30:59,232 and that when you look at a bite into human skin, 456 00:30:59,315 --> 00:31:01,276 it records that uniqueness. 457 00:31:03,236 --> 00:31:05,572 There's no evidence for either of those things. 458 00:31:06,990 --> 00:31:09,742 If you actually look at a bite mark, it's a mess. 459 00:31:12,078 --> 00:31:15,164 You might be able to tell, oh, it's a big mouth or a little mouth. 460 00:31:15,248 --> 00:31:17,500 But the whole idea 461 00:31:17,584 --> 00:31:21,546 that you could tell whose mouth that was based on a bite mark, 462 00:31:21,629 --> 00:31:23,506 that's just total nonsense. 463 00:31:27,802 --> 00:31:29,762 [Dr. Freeman] After our study, I said, 464 00:31:29,846 --> 00:31:33,057 "I'm no longer going to do bite marks for the prosecution." 465 00:31:41,232 --> 00:31:42,901 It is my responsibility 466 00:31:43,651 --> 00:31:45,028 to look backward and say, 467 00:31:45,111 --> 00:31:48,364 "If I made a mistake, let me see if I can correct it." 468 00:31:48,448 --> 00:31:50,533 It is my duty to do that. 469 00:31:53,161 --> 00:31:56,289 [Dr. Souviron] There have been some egregious mistakes 470 00:31:56,372 --> 00:31:58,041 with forensic dentistry. 471 00:32:00,877 --> 00:32:02,128 In the Bundy era, 472 00:32:02,670 --> 00:32:05,757 we were able to say, "His teeth left this bite mark, 473 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,842 to a reasonable degree of certainty," 474 00:32:07,926 --> 00:32:09,385 or, "Indeed and without doubt." 475 00:32:10,553 --> 00:32:12,639 And that's backfired in a lot of cases. 476 00:32:13,264 --> 00:32:14,432 As you can see, 477 00:32:14,933 --> 00:32:18,853 these are all boxes with models of bite mark cases. 478 00:32:19,938 --> 00:32:23,191 If this gives you any idea of the volume... 479 00:32:23,983 --> 00:32:27,528 I mean, I'm impressed myself. These are... These are three deep. 480 00:32:29,739 --> 00:32:32,158 Since the Bundy case, I have been asked 481 00:32:32,241 --> 00:32:34,535 to go back and look at old bite mark cases. 482 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,623 In this case in Boston, I have some records, 483 00:32:38,706 --> 00:32:40,291 so the attorneys called me. 484 00:32:42,877 --> 00:32:46,381 He said, "Well, since you testified in 1983, 485 00:32:46,464 --> 00:32:49,801 why don't you re-evaluate the evidence?" 486 00:32:55,974 --> 00:32:58,351 There was a conviction. He's done, 487 00:32:58,434 --> 00:33:03,272 I guess, 35 years now on... in prison. 488 00:33:04,482 --> 00:33:07,026 My testimony at the trial was that 489 00:33:07,110 --> 00:33:09,946 these teeth fit into the impression 490 00:33:10,029 --> 00:33:11,948 to a reasonable degree of certainty. 491 00:33:14,242 --> 00:33:16,995 They want to know if my testimony today 492 00:33:17,078 --> 00:33:19,998 is going to be identical to what it was in 1983. 493 00:33:20,081 --> 00:33:21,290 And it's not. 494 00:33:21,374 --> 00:33:23,418 I can tell you, it's not going to be the same. 495 00:33:23,501 --> 00:33:27,380 In 1983, I didn't have the experience that I have 35 years later. 496 00:33:32,260 --> 00:33:36,014 I've become a lot more conservative in my opinions now. 497 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,476 "We can't eliminate this person." That's what we say today. 498 00:33:46,274 --> 00:33:48,693 I hope they have a lot more than just this 499 00:33:49,110 --> 00:33:52,989 for convicting a guy, putting him in jail for the rest of his life. 500 00:34:01,247 --> 00:34:05,084 [Peter] People were sentenced to death as a result of these screw-ups, 501 00:34:05,668 --> 00:34:08,838 and what the forensic dentists need to do, 502 00:34:09,630 --> 00:34:14,052 they have a moral and ethical obligation to go back and look at all those cases 503 00:34:14,135 --> 00:34:16,304 to see if there aren't more innocent people. 504 00:34:17,805 --> 00:34:19,245 [man] We're now going back on record 505 00:34:19,307 --> 00:34:21,267 - with tape number two. - [man 2] Okay. 506 00:34:21,350 --> 00:34:24,771 I'm going to go through some of these really quickly, with the same question. 507 00:34:24,854 --> 00:34:27,690 The State of Mississippi vs. Donnie Silcox... 508 00:34:27,774 --> 00:34:29,150 Don't remember that one. 509 00:34:29,650 --> 00:34:31,152 William Giles Jr? 510 00:34:31,235 --> 00:34:32,987 Do you remember that? Wound pattern case? 511 00:34:33,071 --> 00:34:34,447 - [Dr. West grunts] - No? 512 00:34:34,530 --> 00:34:37,408 Stacey Lynn Waltman? State of Mississippi vs. Stacey Lynn Waltman? 513 00:34:37,492 --> 00:34:39,786 You remember that case? It's a bite mark case. 514 00:34:39,869 --> 00:34:41,579 State versus Charles Ralph David? 515 00:34:41,662 --> 00:34:44,957 It's a bite mark ultraviolet case, do you remember anything about that case? 516 00:34:45,041 --> 00:34:46,042 [Dr. West stutters] 517 00:34:46,125 --> 00:34:47,376 I'm sorry. I've... 518 00:34:50,088 --> 00:34:53,049 You know, you've seen one dead girl with bites on 'em, you've seen 'em all. 519 00:34:53,132 --> 00:34:54,425 - Is that right? - Yeah. 520 00:34:54,509 --> 00:34:55,968 Was that a dead girl case? 521 00:34:56,052 --> 00:34:57,637 - I have no idea. - Oh, you don't know? 522 00:34:57,720 --> 00:34:59,180 - I was just... - Okay. 523 00:35:00,014 --> 00:35:03,142 Are you on any medication that makes it difficult to remember, 524 00:35:03,226 --> 00:35:04,393 or are you... 525 00:35:04,477 --> 00:35:06,020 - Yes. - What medication is it? 526 00:35:06,104 --> 00:35:07,814 - High Life. - High Life? 527 00:35:07,897 --> 00:35:09,440 - Miller High Life. - Miller High Life? 528 00:35:09,524 --> 00:35:10,358 - Okay. - Yes. 529 00:35:10,441 --> 00:35:13,801 - And that makes it difficult to remember... - Oh, you can forget all sorts of stuff. 530 00:35:20,743 --> 00:35:23,246 [music plays inside] 531 00:35:31,504 --> 00:35:34,757 [Dr. West] This is Nick's Ice House. It's a legend in Hattiesburg. 532 00:35:36,342 --> 00:35:40,263 This is a place where people can come and not be bothered. 533 00:35:42,515 --> 00:35:45,101 Everybody leaves everybody else's business alone. 534 00:35:45,810 --> 00:35:48,354 This is our retreat. It's our clubhouse. 535 00:35:50,356 --> 00:35:52,859 And this bar is a repository 536 00:35:52,942 --> 00:35:56,696 for all the old signs and businesses that have closed. 537 00:35:57,155 --> 00:35:59,031 West DDS, that's me. 538 00:36:00,199 --> 00:36:03,286 [music continues] 539 00:36:07,415 --> 00:36:09,250 My last testimony in court, 540 00:36:09,834 --> 00:36:13,254 I had to go to Columbus, Mississippi for a post-conviction hearing. 541 00:36:15,089 --> 00:36:18,217 [yelling] Can we turn that shit down for just a minute? 542 00:36:21,387 --> 00:36:23,264 - [music stops] - Thank you very much. 543 00:36:24,515 --> 00:36:29,103 I left the courtroom, went outside, sat down on the bench, got me a cigarette. 544 00:36:30,313 --> 00:36:32,356 Well, here comes Peter Neufeld, 545 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,317 the founder of the Innocence Project, 546 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,028 a man that I despise and have no respect for. 547 00:36:38,237 --> 00:36:40,656 He walks up to me while I'm sitting on the bench, 548 00:36:41,199 --> 00:36:43,868 smoking a cigarette, and he extends his hand, he says, 549 00:36:43,951 --> 00:36:46,329 "Dr. West, I'm Peter Neufeld. We've never met." 550 00:36:47,496 --> 00:36:51,125 You couldn't use a D9 'dozer to move my hand to shake his. 551 00:36:51,209 --> 00:36:52,668 I just ain't going to do it. 552 00:36:53,127 --> 00:36:54,295 Well, that pissed him off. 553 00:36:54,712 --> 00:36:57,757 So he turned and he walked about three or four steps, 554 00:36:58,424 --> 00:37:01,427 there's about a dozen of his assistants and other attorneys. 555 00:37:01,510 --> 00:37:02,678 I said, "Hey, hold on!" 556 00:37:03,429 --> 00:37:05,640 He stopped and he turned around, and I said, 557 00:37:06,140 --> 00:37:10,686 "Look, don't forget, take some time out this afternoon and go fuck yourself." 558 00:37:21,155 --> 00:37:23,449 [Chris] It just takes one bad scientist 559 00:37:23,532 --> 00:37:25,368 and the whole system gets it wrong. 560 00:37:26,327 --> 00:37:29,080 We need to demonstrate over and over again 561 00:37:29,163 --> 00:37:30,414 just how unreliable it is. 562 00:37:31,499 --> 00:37:33,668 Something new that we recently learned about, 563 00:37:33,751 --> 00:37:36,963 apparently a false confession case that was brought home 564 00:37:37,588 --> 00:37:39,048 with bite mark evidence. 565 00:37:39,131 --> 00:37:42,134 I think it's a single tooth mark on a finger. 566 00:37:42,718 --> 00:37:45,221 It's not going to go away until we make it go away. 567 00:37:54,313 --> 00:37:58,067 [Keith] The Innocence Project kept bugging Newport News 568 00:37:58,818 --> 00:38:00,861 about any kind of evidence. 569 00:38:12,957 --> 00:38:17,003 [Chris] One of our fellows called the local court in Newport News, Virginia, 570 00:38:17,086 --> 00:38:19,672 to see whether or not any of the evidence still existed. 571 00:38:19,755 --> 00:38:22,550 He got on the phone, he called, and a court officer picked up. 572 00:38:22,633 --> 00:38:26,804 "Yeah, there's a box right here. Says 'Keith Harward' on it," right? 573 00:38:26,887 --> 00:38:30,057 "Is this what you're interested in?" "Yes! Yes! Hold on to that!" 574 00:38:31,517 --> 00:38:33,853 There was DNA all over the scene. 575 00:38:33,978 --> 00:38:37,773 There was DNA from a diaper that was used to cover the victim's face. 576 00:38:37,857 --> 00:38:39,066 There was a rape kit. 577 00:38:43,446 --> 00:38:46,615 Keith Harward spent 33 years of his life in prison, 578 00:38:47,616 --> 00:38:50,161 and all this evidence was sitting right there all along. 579 00:39:00,796 --> 00:39:03,758 [Olga Akselrod] On average, Innocence Project cases 580 00:39:03,841 --> 00:39:07,678 take about five years from the time we initially open it 581 00:39:08,637 --> 00:39:10,514 to the time of exoneration. 582 00:39:13,100 --> 00:39:17,146 You never know until you get the DNA test results 583 00:39:17,229 --> 00:39:18,564 what's going to happen. 584 00:39:22,068 --> 00:39:24,737 [Keith] They found a lab that would do the DNA, 585 00:39:24,820 --> 00:39:25,820 sent it off. 586 00:39:26,489 --> 00:39:27,489 They get it back. 587 00:39:28,157 --> 00:39:29,367 I've been excluded. 588 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,162 I knew it, you know, I... [chuckles] 589 00:39:33,245 --> 00:39:35,365 You're telling me something I already know. Thank you. 590 00:39:36,665 --> 00:39:38,667 [Chris] After we got the results of the DNA, 591 00:39:38,751 --> 00:39:42,296 the next step was to to do a CODIS search and solve the crime. 592 00:39:44,507 --> 00:39:47,426 [Olga] They ran the profile through the DNA data bank, 593 00:39:47,968 --> 00:39:51,806 and that's when it hits to Jerry Crotty. 594 00:39:54,141 --> 00:39:57,061 [Frank] Jerry Crotty was a sailor on the Carl Vinson. 595 00:39:58,771 --> 00:40:01,565 And he was in and out of prison for most of his life 596 00:40:01,649 --> 00:40:02,983 up until the time he died. 597 00:40:10,449 --> 00:40:13,035 [Keith] You've heard people say, "Oh, he got away with murder." 598 00:40:13,119 --> 00:40:14,745 This guy actually did. 599 00:40:17,248 --> 00:40:19,041 Forget about me being a victim. 600 00:40:21,001 --> 00:40:23,838 The poor woman, she found out that the monster, 601 00:40:24,588 --> 00:40:26,507 me, was not the monster. 602 00:40:50,739 --> 00:40:52,450 [Teresa] I've never seen a picture of him. 603 00:40:54,702 --> 00:40:55,702 [sighs] 604 00:41:00,166 --> 00:41:01,375 It's scary. 605 00:41:14,346 --> 00:41:17,683 He don't look anything like the guy that they put behind bars. 606 00:41:18,934 --> 00:41:20,060 And it's not fair. 607 00:41:20,478 --> 00:41:21,479 It's really not. 608 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,193 [man] When the criminal justice system gets it wrong, 609 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,488 when it fails to deliver justice, 610 00:41:31,030 --> 00:41:32,364 we have to say so. 611 00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:35,826 In this case, the Commonwealth got it wrong. 612 00:41:36,535 --> 00:41:39,580 [Frank] I've covered a number of wrongful convictions. 613 00:41:40,372 --> 00:41:43,167 Normally, it goes at a snail's pace. 614 00:41:43,584 --> 00:41:44,919 This case, however, 615 00:41:45,503 --> 00:41:48,714 once the Attorney General saw there'd been a cold hit, 616 00:41:48,797 --> 00:41:51,383 he very quickly called a press conference 617 00:41:51,884 --> 00:41:54,094 and asked the Virginia Supreme Court 618 00:41:54,178 --> 00:41:57,264 to let this man out of prison and clear his name. 619 00:42:04,146 --> 00:42:05,814 [Keith] I was sitting in my cell 620 00:42:05,898 --> 00:42:08,609 when they shook the door and said, "They want you in Medical." 621 00:42:11,946 --> 00:42:14,782 So, the guard came over and took the handcuffs off of me. 622 00:42:15,616 --> 00:42:18,410 He says, "Come with me," so we walked out and turned left, 623 00:42:18,494 --> 00:42:20,621 and I cross that red line. 624 00:42:21,372 --> 00:42:23,332 You cross the red line, you get shot. 625 00:42:23,916 --> 00:42:24,959 I didn't get shot. 626 00:42:26,627 --> 00:42:29,964 They put me in this conference room, and the warden walked in, 627 00:42:30,047 --> 00:42:32,967 reached over and shook my hand and said, "Mr. Harward, you're a free man." 628 00:42:33,008 --> 00:42:37,304 He says, "I can't let you back into prison because you're a security risk to me. 629 00:42:37,388 --> 00:42:38,514 You're a free man now." 630 00:42:39,265 --> 00:42:41,058 [camera shutters click] 631 00:42:52,403 --> 00:42:55,465 - [man] Do you have any words for us, sir? - My attorney's going to speak first, 632 00:42:55,489 --> 00:42:58,492 and then, if I don't pass out or wet myself, 633 00:42:58,576 --> 00:43:00,452 - I may have a few things to say. - [laughs] 634 00:43:00,536 --> 00:43:02,705 Now, if any of y'all, later on in a couple weeks, 635 00:43:02,788 --> 00:43:04,748 once I get a chance to have a breath, 636 00:43:04,832 --> 00:43:06,667 y'all want to call me, 637 00:43:07,543 --> 00:43:09,503 talk to me or have me come up, 638 00:43:09,587 --> 00:43:11,130 put me up in the Marriott or whatever, 639 00:43:11,213 --> 00:43:14,800 and sit down and discuss prisons and parole, 640 00:43:14,883 --> 00:43:17,094 because I can give you firsthand facts on this stuff, 641 00:43:17,177 --> 00:43:19,179 'cause I lived it for 33 years. 642 00:43:19,263 --> 00:43:21,181 Sir, is this the happiest day of your life? 643 00:43:21,265 --> 00:43:22,474 Probably so. 644 00:43:22,558 --> 00:43:25,311 It would be overwhelming if my parents were here, but... 645 00:43:26,312 --> 00:43:27,312 [Keith exhales] 646 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:29,732 I mean, wouldn't you be? 647 00:43:30,649 --> 00:43:32,234 You see, I'll be able to grow a beard. 648 00:43:32,318 --> 00:43:34,361 - In there, I can't do that. - [laughter] 649 00:43:34,445 --> 00:43:37,948 You've got a fine beard there. I can grow me one now if I want to. 650 00:43:49,168 --> 00:43:50,461 I grew up in the country. 651 00:43:51,211 --> 00:43:55,341 I lived on a lake, and I would fish almost every day that I could. 652 00:43:55,424 --> 00:43:57,843 I loved to be out there on the water and just fishing. 653 00:43:59,762 --> 00:44:03,557 I rode my bicycle everywhere, played in the woods, hunted. 654 00:44:05,184 --> 00:44:06,184 And I missed it. 655 00:44:07,936 --> 00:44:09,897 Mowing the yard, raking leaves, 656 00:44:10,606 --> 00:44:11,857 just goofing around. 657 00:44:23,202 --> 00:44:25,371 Going to have some for the small birds, too. 658 00:44:27,498 --> 00:44:30,209 A little smorgasbord of food for the birds. 659 00:44:31,669 --> 00:44:35,255 Last time I cut my hair, I was in prison. In prison, you can't have long hair. 660 00:44:35,631 --> 00:44:37,675 - And it's almost as long as hers. - [chuckles] 661 00:44:38,092 --> 00:44:39,292 [Mary] I help him out, though. 662 00:44:39,343 --> 00:44:40,594 - Yeah. - I trim it up. 663 00:44:40,678 --> 00:44:43,764 - Right, she trims... - Keeps his mustache trimmed and stuff, 664 00:44:43,847 --> 00:44:45,432 so you can see his lips. 665 00:44:45,516 --> 00:44:48,560 And one day I'll shave it all off, start over from scratch. 666 00:44:49,186 --> 00:44:50,187 Uh... 667 00:44:50,270 --> 00:44:51,522 If I want to. 668 00:44:57,319 --> 00:45:00,572 The State of Virginia offered me a compensation package. 669 00:45:01,031 --> 00:45:04,243 $1.55 million is what they gave me. 670 00:45:06,036 --> 00:45:07,830 This is my little Honda Civic. 671 00:45:08,330 --> 00:45:10,958 I put mag wheels on her, she's got little mags. 672 00:45:11,041 --> 00:45:13,001 My tractor, my little riding mower, 673 00:45:13,085 --> 00:45:15,671 my little mini bike, I got a little Honda mini bike. 674 00:45:17,798 --> 00:45:20,134 Where we're going to start it would be here, 675 00:45:20,217 --> 00:45:22,261 and where we want to end up is... 676 00:45:23,095 --> 00:45:26,223 Idaho Falls right there, so we've got to go from here to there. 677 00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:27,891 Let me just see the map. 678 00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:30,200 [Mary] He had talked about it all along, 679 00:45:30,269 --> 00:45:32,855 that that was one of the things that he wanted to do, 680 00:45:32,938 --> 00:45:35,441 going across country in his bus. 681 00:45:36,817 --> 00:45:38,986 [Keith] There it is, that's Tater Blue. 682 00:45:39,069 --> 00:45:41,238 Mary's the one that came up with the name. 683 00:45:41,697 --> 00:45:44,366 My nickname in prison was Tater, 684 00:45:44,950 --> 00:45:48,370 because it originally started out as Couch Potato, 685 00:45:48,454 --> 00:45:50,581 because when I first got locked up, I kept to myself, 686 00:45:50,664 --> 00:45:51,749 I stayed in my cell. 687 00:45:53,041 --> 00:45:55,878 And over the years, it got cut down to Tater. 688 00:45:57,337 --> 00:45:59,757 So I figured if I put Tater Blue on it, 689 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,676 one out of 100 say, "Why Tater?" and I say, 690 00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:04,636 "Sit down, let me tell you a story." 691 00:46:05,971 --> 00:46:09,850 That's my job now, is to tell people my story about wrongful convictions. 692 00:46:12,478 --> 00:46:16,148 They're still doing bite mark cases, and this stuff should not be allowed. 693 00:46:16,690 --> 00:46:17,858 This should not go on. 694 00:46:19,943 --> 00:46:23,280 If there's a bite mark case that they're trying to allow, 695 00:46:23,363 --> 00:46:25,324 I will show up and tell them, 696 00:46:25,407 --> 00:46:27,826 "No." I will stand out front with a placard 697 00:46:27,910 --> 00:46:29,411 and say, "This stuff's junk." 698 00:46:29,495 --> 00:46:32,706 Maybe I can catch one juror before these odontologists come in 699 00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:34,541 with all their smoke and mirrors. 700 00:46:50,724 --> 00:46:53,519 [bell tolls] 701 00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:58,680 - Hi, fine to meet you. - Nice to finally meet you, too. 702 00:46:58,732 --> 00:47:00,651 - You doing alright? - So far, so good. 703 00:47:00,734 --> 00:47:01,902 Welcome to Richmond. 704 00:47:03,278 --> 00:47:05,823 Now, look, today, you're going to have about five minutes 705 00:47:05,906 --> 00:47:07,699 to tell that compelling story to a panel. 706 00:47:08,826 --> 00:47:11,703 You're going to have to convince 15 senators 707 00:47:11,787 --> 00:47:13,789 that this bill's worthy to get to that floor 708 00:47:13,872 --> 00:47:15,749 and get voted on in three days, okay? 709 00:47:24,341 --> 00:47:26,802 [Keith] Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please excuse me. 710 00:47:27,553 --> 00:47:30,556 Half my life, I was a convict. Still am, 711 00:47:30,639 --> 00:47:34,768 I'll never shake my being from that. That's something you just can't get past. 712 00:47:35,561 --> 00:47:40,440 If it wouldn't have been for DNA, I would still be inmate 1125797. 713 00:47:40,524 --> 00:47:42,526 I'll remember that number the rest of my life. 714 00:47:43,068 --> 00:47:44,695 I believe, in my heart of hearts, 715 00:47:44,778 --> 00:47:47,906 if you go out to all three corners of the state of Virginia, 716 00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:49,783 and speak to the citizens, 717 00:47:49,867 --> 00:47:51,952 explain to them we're going to pass a bill 718 00:47:52,035 --> 00:47:55,706 that will allow people who were convicted behind junk science 719 00:47:55,789 --> 00:47:59,668 to have a law that will help them get themselves back into court, 720 00:47:59,751 --> 00:48:02,379 they would say, "There's not a law already?" 721 00:48:02,838 --> 00:48:04,089 It's just that simple. 722 00:48:04,965 --> 00:48:07,593 I think the people of Virginia deserve it. 723 00:48:08,635 --> 00:48:09,720 I deserve it. 724 00:48:11,096 --> 00:48:13,140 It's just not right. It's not right, 725 00:48:13,223 --> 00:48:16,101 and if you don't understand what this bill is about, 726 00:48:16,768 --> 00:48:18,645 then I'm sorry for you. 727 00:48:18,729 --> 00:48:19,855 If you oppose it, 728 00:48:20,689 --> 00:48:21,815 you should be ashamed. 729 00:48:22,733 --> 00:48:23,733 Ashamed. 730 00:48:24,318 --> 00:48:25,152 Thank you. 731 00:48:25,235 --> 00:48:26,528 - Senator Lucas? - Aye. 732 00:48:26,612 --> 00:48:27,696 - Senator Edwards? - Aye. 733 00:48:27,779 --> 00:48:29,615 - Senator McDougle? - Aye. 734 00:48:29,698 --> 00:48:30,991 - Senator Stuart? - Aye. 735 00:48:32,034 --> 00:48:34,202 - So what does this mean? - It goes on to Finance. 736 00:48:34,286 --> 00:48:36,931 It's the first step in the journey to get it to the floor of the Senate. 737 00:48:36,955 --> 00:48:39,225 So we expect it probably on the floor of the Senate next week. 738 00:48:39,249 --> 00:48:40,249 Outstanding. 739 00:48:43,420 --> 00:48:44,463 I enjoyed that. 740 00:48:46,173 --> 00:48:47,173 Outstanding. 741 00:48:48,717 --> 00:48:50,510 Been there, done that, many times. 742 00:48:56,350 --> 00:48:59,245 - [Senator] I rise for an introduction. - [man 2] The senator has the floor. 743 00:48:59,269 --> 00:49:00,520 Thank you, Mr. President. 744 00:49:00,604 --> 00:49:02,444 Members of the Senate and those in the gallery, 745 00:49:02,481 --> 00:49:04,274 I would direct your attention to our gallery, 746 00:49:04,358 --> 00:49:06,151 where we have a very important person 747 00:49:06,234 --> 00:49:07,903 sitting here and observing us today. 748 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,365 And this is a person who has had a great injustice 749 00:49:11,949 --> 00:49:14,785 brought upon him by the Commonwealth of Virginia, 750 00:49:14,868 --> 00:49:18,622 who spent 33 years in prison 751 00:49:18,705 --> 00:49:20,207 for a crime he did not commit. 752 00:49:20,707 --> 00:49:24,294 Mr. Harward has spent his time since his release 753 00:49:24,836 --> 00:49:27,756 making sure that those who are innocent 754 00:49:27,839 --> 00:49:29,383 are not wrongfully convicted. 755 00:49:29,925 --> 00:49:34,304 So for those reasons, I ask that you look upon Mr. Keith Allen Harward 756 00:49:34,721 --> 00:49:36,932 with admiration and recognition, 757 00:49:37,891 --> 00:49:40,811 and accept our apology from the Commonwealth of Virginia 758 00:49:40,894 --> 00:49:42,646 for being wrongfully convicted 759 00:49:42,729 --> 00:49:45,065 and for that 33-year loss of liberty. 760 00:49:45,148 --> 00:49:50,028 Mr. President, I ask that you extend the warmest of welcome 761 00:49:50,112 --> 00:49:52,239 to Keith Allen Harward. 762 00:49:52,698 --> 00:49:56,535 Would Mr. Keith Allen Harward please rise to the gallery, if you are able? 763 00:49:58,078 --> 00:49:59,538 I would ask everyone to join me 764 00:49:59,621 --> 00:50:03,333 in extending the warmest welcome of the Senate to Mr. Keith Allen Harward. 765 00:50:03,417 --> 00:50:05,419 [applause] 766 00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,511 - [man] Could I have your name? - [Gloria] Gloria Williams. 767 00:50:57,637 --> 00:51:00,182 All right, and the name on the monument? 768 00:51:00,766 --> 00:51:01,641 Levon. 769 00:51:01,725 --> 00:51:03,810 - Spell that for me, please? - L-E-V-O-N. 770 00:51:03,894 --> 00:51:04,936 L-E-V-O-N. 771 00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:06,520 [Gloria] Brooks. 772 00:51:06,855 --> 00:51:08,190 [man] And date of death? 773 00:51:08,607 --> 00:51:11,276 Um, January 26th, 774 00:51:12,611 --> 00:51:14,488 2018. 775 00:51:23,705 --> 00:51:25,332 I think he's going to like this. 776 00:51:34,549 --> 00:51:37,844 He's gonna like it 'cause I like it. [laughs] 777 00:51:38,345 --> 00:51:40,305 I think he's gonna smile down on me. 778 00:52:10,710 --> 00:52:13,088 - Levon would like a day like today. - He would. 779 00:52:13,171 --> 00:52:14,631 - Every day. - Every day. 780 00:52:20,053 --> 00:52:21,680 - Good to see you. - Oh, yeah. 781 00:52:21,763 --> 00:52:23,181 [laughing] 782 00:52:26,184 --> 00:52:28,770 [quiet chatter] 783 00:52:30,605 --> 00:52:32,315 - [Peter] Hello. - [Gloria] Hey, Peter! 784 00:52:32,899 --> 00:52:34,442 I want a good hello. 785 00:52:34,526 --> 00:52:36,361 - How you doing, ma'am? - I'm good. 786 00:52:36,444 --> 00:52:39,573 - [Peter] You got the whole crew? - [Gloria] Yes, the whole crew is out here. 787 00:52:39,656 --> 00:52:41,801 - [Peter] That's wonderful. - [Gloria] You remember Mama? 788 00:52:41,825 --> 00:52:42,825 I do. 789 00:52:43,410 --> 00:52:45,078 - Hi. Peter. - This is my son. 790 00:52:45,537 --> 00:52:46,537 Hey. 791 00:52:48,957 --> 00:52:51,543 We was wrong, and I don't know how we could have... 792 00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:53,420 - been so foolish. - I know. 793 00:52:53,503 --> 00:52:55,213 - But we were. - It's not fair. Yeah. 794 00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,180 [man] "I will lift mine eyes unto the hills 795 00:53:03,263 --> 00:53:05,265 from whence cometh my help. 796 00:53:05,348 --> 00:53:07,601 My help come from the Lord. 797 00:53:07,684 --> 00:53:10,020 The Lord is thy keeper. 798 00:53:10,103 --> 00:53:13,398 The Lord is thy shade upon thy right hand. 799 00:53:14,316 --> 00:53:17,819 The sun shall not smite thee by day, 800 00:53:17,903 --> 00:53:19,821 nor the moon by night. 801 00:53:20,238 --> 00:53:22,991 The Lord shall preserve thee 802 00:53:23,617 --> 00:53:24,993 from all evil. 803 00:53:25,619 --> 00:53:28,622 He shall preserve thy soul. 804 00:53:28,705 --> 00:53:31,416 The Lord shall preserve thy going out 805 00:53:31,499 --> 00:53:33,793 and the Lord shall preserve thy coming in, 806 00:53:33,877 --> 00:53:35,503 from this day forward 807 00:53:35,587 --> 00:53:38,048 and forevermore. Amen." 808 00:53:38,131 --> 00:53:39,341 [all] Amen. 809 00:53:41,676 --> 00:53:45,263 [Peter] The day comes when you walk somebody into freedom, and... 810 00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:47,349 you are bonded for life. 811 00:53:49,184 --> 00:53:51,186 Levon and Kenny are family. 812 00:53:55,315 --> 00:53:59,236 He was locked up for 18 years and only had ten years to live after that. 813 00:54:01,696 --> 00:54:03,031 It's not fair. 814 00:54:03,114 --> 00:54:04,282 It's much too short. 815 00:54:04,699 --> 00:54:08,787 [minister] By God, we ask you, God, to go along with those that came... 816 00:54:08,870 --> 00:54:13,124 [Peter] To change people's hearts and minds about criminal justice, 817 00:54:13,208 --> 00:54:16,086 people really have to care more about accuracy 818 00:54:16,628 --> 00:54:20,465 and reliability than they care about retribution. 819 00:54:26,179 --> 00:54:29,432 We want to try and set aside all of our preconceived notions 820 00:54:29,516 --> 00:54:32,394 about what kind of person is innocent 821 00:54:32,727 --> 00:54:34,437 and what kind of person is guilty 822 00:54:35,230 --> 00:54:36,439 to make it less likely 823 00:54:36,523 --> 00:54:39,359 that innocent people will be convicted in the future. 824 00:54:44,447 --> 00:54:45,532 Levon died, 825 00:54:46,116 --> 00:54:48,034 but his story lives on. 826 00:55:46,176 --> 00:55:50,221 [woman] 62-year-old Gary Cifizzari walking out of court a free man 827 00:55:50,305 --> 00:55:52,932 for the first time in 35 years. 828 00:56:04,194 --> 00:56:07,655 There's a death penalty case in Pennsylvania that's going on now, 829 00:56:07,739 --> 00:56:10,992 and the judge is going to allow bite mark evidence. 830 00:56:11,701 --> 00:56:15,914 How many people have to be wrongly convicted before they realize 831 00:56:16,581 --> 00:56:18,541 that this stuff's all bogus? 832 00:56:45,026 --> 00:56:46,986 [closing theme music playing]