1 00:00:06,507 --> 00:00:08,467 (Woman speaking) 2 00:00:11,762 --> 00:00:14,312 (Collin speaking) 3 00:00:14,389 --> 00:00:16,349 - (Woman speaking) - (Collin speaking) 4 00:00:31,532 --> 00:00:33,582 (Man speaking) 5 00:00:45,837 --> 00:00:47,967 Collin: What they're accusing me of, 6 00:00:48,090 --> 00:00:50,380 I can absolutely deny. 7 00:00:55,347 --> 00:00:57,427 Lindsey: We were already being questioned 8 00:00:57,558 --> 00:01:00,688 that this wasn't something natural or organic. 9 00:01:00,811 --> 00:01:02,191 The doctor took her hands 10 00:01:02,312 --> 00:01:05,482 and said, "you had to have done this to your child". 11 00:01:05,649 --> 00:01:09,109 Collin: Obviously, I didn't do anything to Connor. 12 00:01:09,236 --> 00:01:11,696 Being a father is the best thing that ever happened to me. 13 00:01:37,306 --> 00:01:38,886 My name is Arthur garton. 14 00:01:39,016 --> 00:01:40,676 I'm a criminal defense attorney. 15 00:01:41,351 --> 00:01:43,271 I represent Collin quint. 16 00:01:43,353 --> 00:01:46,653 He's currently charged with child abuse in the first degree. 17 00:01:48,275 --> 00:01:52,065 Collin is facing life imprisonment over these charges. 18 00:01:53,697 --> 00:01:57,237 The alleged victim is his son Connor. 19 00:01:57,367 --> 00:01:59,197 Who was nine weeks old at the time. 20 00:02:00,329 --> 00:02:02,659 The state's position is that Collin 21 00:02:02,831 --> 00:02:08,631 either shook or slammed or whatever, Connor, 22 00:02:08,712 --> 00:02:14,132 causing shaken baby syndrome/ abusive head trauma. 23 00:02:16,428 --> 00:02:20,268 Collin was home with Connor, um, 24 00:02:20,349 --> 00:02:22,889 at the time that there first 25 00:02:23,018 --> 00:02:24,388 seemed to be some signs. 26 00:02:24,519 --> 00:02:26,979 Something was going on with Connor. 27 00:02:27,064 --> 00:02:29,864 Collin immediately called his wife, Lindsey. 28 00:02:29,983 --> 00:02:34,663 They went to hospital, had Connor completely evaluated, 29 00:02:34,821 --> 00:02:36,161 and the hospital said he's fine. 30 00:02:36,698 --> 00:02:37,948 Sent him home, 31 00:02:38,033 --> 00:02:40,543 and the next day, Connor got worse. 32 00:02:40,661 --> 00:02:43,581 And unfortunately, at that point, Connor 33 00:02:43,705 --> 00:02:48,785 was having major seizures and ended up in icu. 34 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:53,509 The doctors found subdural hematoma, which is a brain bleed. 35 00:02:53,632 --> 00:02:55,262 Because of that, there was pressure 36 00:02:55,384 --> 00:02:58,724 on the back of the eyes, which led to retinal hemorrhage, 37 00:02:58,845 --> 00:03:01,635 and they found increased swelling to the brain. 38 00:03:03,433 --> 00:03:07,653 In their opinion, Connor was shaken. 39 00:03:08,855 --> 00:03:12,025 The main question that was asked 40 00:03:12,150 --> 00:03:14,950 of these parents was... 41 00:03:15,028 --> 00:03:16,658 What happened? 42 00:03:16,822 --> 00:03:21,742 Their response was, "honestly, I have no idea, I don't know". 43 00:03:21,868 --> 00:03:23,698 And the medical professionals' position was, 44 00:03:23,829 --> 00:03:26,329 well, if you can't tell us what happened, 45 00:03:26,456 --> 00:03:29,126 then you must have abused your child. 46 00:03:30,335 --> 00:03:33,085 Art and I believe this is a birth trauma case. 47 00:03:33,171 --> 00:03:38,011 Because there are studies that show that there's a large percentage of children 48 00:03:38,176 --> 00:03:43,466 that are born vaginally with subdural hematomas. 49 00:03:43,598 --> 00:03:47,308 What happened is terrifying to me because it could happen to anyone. 50 00:03:48,687 --> 00:03:52,687 This is a loving family who have done nothing wrong, 51 00:03:52,816 --> 00:03:56,696 but be falsely accused by the system of harming their child. 52 00:04:04,077 --> 00:04:09,287 Collin: So this is the apartment that we got for Connor to grow up in. 53 00:04:11,334 --> 00:04:13,174 This is our son's room. 54 00:04:14,463 --> 00:04:17,173 This is where he should be sleeping. 55 00:04:18,592 --> 00:04:22,642 I'm not allowed to live with my son. 56 00:04:22,721 --> 00:04:26,811 So, currently the family is separated. 57 00:04:26,933 --> 00:04:31,863 Lindsey, my wife, is living with her mother and Connor. 58 00:04:42,616 --> 00:04:46,696 I had a really bad brain injury. 59 00:04:46,870 --> 00:04:51,040 Communicating becomes difficult where I get foggy 60 00:04:51,166 --> 00:04:53,626 or my brain just decides we're done. 61 00:04:53,794 --> 00:04:54,964 It just shuts off. 62 00:04:56,171 --> 00:04:58,971 It is very difficult to have a brain injury 63 00:04:59,090 --> 00:05:01,050 going through what we're going through 64 00:05:01,176 --> 00:05:04,926 in the court process and the proceedings. 65 00:05:05,013 --> 00:05:09,733 Being accused of first degree child abuse against your own son, 66 00:05:09,851 --> 00:05:11,441 it's horrific. 67 00:05:12,646 --> 00:05:14,816 What they're accusing me of, 68 00:05:14,981 --> 00:05:17,281 I can absolutely deny. 69 00:05:24,533 --> 00:05:25,643 Denise: I think the prosecutor 70 00:05:25,659 --> 00:05:27,489 is playing on the fact that 71 00:05:27,661 --> 00:05:29,291 infants take a lot of work. 72 00:05:29,371 --> 00:05:33,251 They cry, they don't sleep, they get up in the middle of the night, 73 00:05:33,375 --> 00:05:35,665 and I think they're taking the position that, 74 00:05:35,836 --> 00:05:38,706 Collin is a man who could just snap. 75 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,339 And that's why the shaken baby happened. 76 00:05:42,509 --> 00:05:46,849 In my opinion, they don't have any smoking gun to offer. 77 00:05:47,013 --> 00:05:51,813 They have to defer completely to the medical experts. 78 00:05:51,935 --> 00:05:55,645 Arthur: Doctors are trained to presume child abuse. 79 00:05:55,814 --> 00:05:59,614 My opinion of that is that they owed an obligation to anybody 80 00:05:59,734 --> 00:06:02,154 to see if there's some other reason 81 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,160 to have these symptoms. 82 00:06:04,281 --> 00:06:05,821 They chose not to. 83 00:06:05,949 --> 00:06:09,739 The state's position is simply, it's shaken baby, 84 00:06:09,870 --> 00:06:12,750 and they're not going to change that. 85 00:06:17,919 --> 00:06:20,759 Can we try to do two more? 86 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:22,839 Can we? Here, sit down, it's all right. 87 00:06:23,884 --> 00:06:27,804 Put the purple on top of the green. 88 00:06:27,888 --> 00:06:30,928 Pick it up and put it on top. Thank you. 89 00:06:46,114 --> 00:06:50,244 Lindsey: Connor is a very happy and healthy little boy. 90 00:06:50,368 --> 00:06:53,408 He's in speech and language therapy. 91 00:06:53,538 --> 00:06:57,828 He does communicate more so with sign language 92 00:06:57,959 --> 00:07:02,009 until he's able in time to communicate with us verbally. 93 00:07:03,340 --> 00:07:06,680 He'll say dada and then sign for help. 94 00:07:06,801 --> 00:07:08,551 That like dada to get his attention 95 00:07:08,678 --> 00:07:11,008 and letting him know that he needs help with something. 96 00:07:11,681 --> 00:07:13,101 We know it works for him. 97 00:07:13,224 --> 00:07:15,644 He wants to do more of it, and then he'll just keep growing 98 00:07:15,769 --> 00:07:17,519 and getting better every single day. 99 00:07:41,294 --> 00:07:44,554 Lindsey: Collin is under very strict rules of visiting. 100 00:07:46,174 --> 00:07:50,974 He comes over to spend time with his son when the court allows. 101 00:07:56,393 --> 00:08:00,023 - You're it. - Lindsey: Oh, he got you! 102 00:08:00,146 --> 00:08:02,016 -He got you -Collin: You're it. Oh, no. 103 00:08:02,148 --> 00:08:03,778 What are you doing? 104 00:08:03,900 --> 00:08:07,530 What are you, ugh. I meant no, you're it. 105 00:08:08,530 --> 00:08:09,950 All right. 106 00:08:10,031 --> 00:08:12,241 Yeah, there's my head. 107 00:08:13,535 --> 00:08:16,405 I see happiness in that little boy's eyes 108 00:08:16,538 --> 00:08:20,248 to be with his dad since the time is so limited 109 00:08:20,375 --> 00:08:22,455 that he gets to see his dad. 110 00:08:22,585 --> 00:08:26,375 Um, I just see the joy laid up on my grandson's face, 111 00:08:26,506 --> 00:08:29,546 and it means everything to all of us. 112 00:08:29,676 --> 00:08:31,586 - Oh! - (Connor chuckles) 113 00:08:32,345 --> 00:08:33,715 Huh? Ha! 114 00:08:33,847 --> 00:08:35,557 I think we work well as a family. 115 00:08:35,682 --> 00:08:39,522 If not, we wouldn't have made it this far together. 116 00:08:39,686 --> 00:08:41,146 We would, we would have crumbled. 117 00:08:41,604 --> 00:08:43,234 Thumbs up. 118 00:08:43,356 --> 00:08:46,606 Connor is our route to our happiness. 119 00:08:48,862 --> 00:08:51,032 If Collin ended up going to prison, 120 00:08:51,156 --> 00:08:54,116 it would break this family, very deeply. 121 00:08:55,869 --> 00:08:58,709 And it would break my heart for Connor, 122 00:08:58,872 --> 00:09:01,252 because Connor loves him so much. 123 00:09:08,590 --> 00:09:11,800 Arthur: We're bringing our client Collin quint in today. 124 00:09:11,926 --> 00:09:14,796 Make sure he understands the charges, the severity of them 125 00:09:14,929 --> 00:09:17,179 and the potential consequences. 126 00:09:18,433 --> 00:09:21,143 Denise: We initially were retained, 127 00:09:21,227 --> 00:09:23,977 but very quickly our clients ran out of money 128 00:09:24,105 --> 00:09:26,645 because they're not millionaires. 129 00:09:26,775 --> 00:09:30,985 But until we reach the finality and hopefully get justice, 130 00:09:31,071 --> 00:09:32,321 we can't let it go. 131 00:09:32,405 --> 00:09:35,945 Would I be working for free if I thought he was guilty? 132 00:09:36,034 --> 00:09:37,244 Not on your life. 133 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:45,840 Okay, Collin, 134 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,550 you're currently charged with child abuse in the first degree. 135 00:09:50,673 --> 00:09:52,973 If you were convicted of child abuse one, 136 00:09:53,134 --> 00:09:57,014 you could do up to life in prison. 137 00:09:57,138 --> 00:09:59,598 Arthur: Your case falls into what's generically 138 00:09:59,682 --> 00:10:05,482 called shaken baby syndrome/ abusive head trauma case. 139 00:10:05,563 --> 00:10:10,153 This was an area of the law that's got a great amount of controversy. 140 00:10:10,318 --> 00:10:13,358 Between whether this is diagnosis or whether 141 00:10:13,530 --> 00:10:15,870 the shaken baby syndrome is a real thing. 142 00:10:16,032 --> 00:10:18,082 But you've got a set of doctors 143 00:10:18,701 --> 00:10:20,501 who are bought into it, 144 00:10:20,662 --> 00:10:24,832 and they've been trained to presume child abuse. 145 00:10:24,958 --> 00:10:26,708 Denise: It's hard to really fault doctors 146 00:10:26,835 --> 00:10:28,795 if that's what they're trained to know. 147 00:10:28,962 --> 00:10:30,802 But as far as they're concerned, 148 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,840 there can be no other explanation, 149 00:10:34,008 --> 00:10:35,888 and the prosecutor is probably going to do 150 00:10:36,010 --> 00:10:39,140 everything they can to put you in prison. 151 00:10:45,728 --> 00:10:50,528 Arthur: Collin, you're currently charged with child abuse in the first degree. 152 00:10:50,650 --> 00:10:53,280 The doctor who made the determination 153 00:10:53,361 --> 00:10:55,201 that this was child abuse 154 00:10:55,363 --> 00:11:00,083 never bothered getting the wellness records or the birth records of Connor. 155 00:11:00,201 --> 00:11:02,791 And now the prosecutor's charging you with a crime. 156 00:11:07,917 --> 00:11:09,167 You have any questions? 157 00:11:12,172 --> 00:11:13,882 Not that I can think of. 158 00:11:14,007 --> 00:11:16,177 I'm just absorbing all of it. 159 00:11:17,010 --> 00:11:19,300 - Denise: It's a lot. - Yeah. 160 00:11:25,935 --> 00:11:28,145 I just, I don't understand. 161 00:11:28,271 --> 00:11:32,031 We did everything right. We took care of him. 162 00:11:34,152 --> 00:11:36,652 Arthur: Well, a jury is in all likelihood 163 00:11:36,779 --> 00:11:39,239 going to want to hold somebody responsible. 164 00:11:39,365 --> 00:11:42,905 And it's our job to get them to understand 165 00:11:43,036 --> 00:11:46,156 that this was probably related to birth trauma, 166 00:11:46,331 --> 00:11:50,131 because these injuries can happen naturally. 167 00:11:50,210 --> 00:11:52,880 As you know, your wife was in extended labor 168 00:11:53,004 --> 00:11:55,054 and you saw the accelerated head growth. 169 00:11:55,173 --> 00:11:57,553 You have the 35 percentile at birth 170 00:11:57,675 --> 00:12:00,595 and then 83 percentile nine weeks later. 171 00:12:00,678 --> 00:12:03,348 Something was going on in your child's head. 172 00:12:05,016 --> 00:12:07,476 We're here for you, and we're going to, 173 00:12:07,602 --> 00:12:12,442 fight like our life depended on it to get you through this to the end. 174 00:12:12,982 --> 00:12:14,442 - Collin: Okay. - Okay? 175 00:12:16,527 --> 00:12:17,527 Okay. 176 00:12:26,871 --> 00:12:28,121 Denise: It's all right. 177 00:12:28,748 --> 00:12:30,788 I can't imagine the pain. 178 00:12:39,342 --> 00:12:43,142 Today, I'm going to Collin and Lindsey's apartment. 179 00:12:43,263 --> 00:12:48,183 To have a better understanding of our client's story. 180 00:12:48,351 --> 00:12:54,021 The prosecution would tell you that the apartment is the scene of the crime. 181 00:12:54,148 --> 00:12:57,238 It's where Collin did something to Connor. 182 00:12:58,987 --> 00:13:00,447 Collin's got a target on his back, 183 00:13:00,571 --> 00:13:03,781 and unfortunately though you're innocent until proven guilty, 184 00:13:03,866 --> 00:13:07,866 you're really guilty until proven innocent. 185 00:13:11,582 --> 00:13:17,012 Collin, I came over today because I kind of want to understand 186 00:13:17,171 --> 00:13:20,761 what happened back on August 1st and August 2nd. 187 00:13:20,883 --> 00:13:22,763 We'll start with August 1st. 188 00:13:22,885 --> 00:13:25,215 Where were you and Connor 189 00:13:25,346 --> 00:13:28,216 when you first noticed something was off? 190 00:13:28,349 --> 00:13:30,809 In the room, watching TV. 191 00:13:30,893 --> 00:13:32,563 And then I looked over at him, 192 00:13:32,687 --> 00:13:35,357 and his eyes were just... 193 00:13:35,481 --> 00:13:39,991 Fixated, like looking straight without moving. 194 00:13:40,111 --> 00:13:42,071 Within seconds, he was okay. 195 00:13:42,196 --> 00:13:44,366 But I instantly called Lindsey. 196 00:13:44,532 --> 00:13:47,492 And then did you guys go to the hospital together? 197 00:13:47,618 --> 00:13:48,908 Yeah. 198 00:13:49,037 --> 00:13:51,657 So, what did the doctors conclude, if anything? 199 00:13:51,831 --> 00:13:54,711 They did a chest X-ray, 200 00:13:54,876 --> 00:13:57,666 and he was perfectly fine. 201 00:13:57,795 --> 00:14:00,875 Okay. And they said he could go home? 202 00:14:01,007 --> 00:14:02,187 - Yes. - Is that what they told you? 203 00:14:02,216 --> 00:14:03,966 - Yes. - And they discharged him? 204 00:14:04,052 --> 00:14:05,182 Yep. 205 00:14:10,641 --> 00:14:13,061 So when did Lindsey come home? 206 00:14:13,186 --> 00:14:16,556 I want to say at 11 a. M. Something. 207 00:14:16,689 --> 00:14:20,819 Prior information you guys had given us was that... 208 00:14:20,943 --> 00:14:24,033 You and sue were downstairs, Lindsey's mom, 209 00:14:24,155 --> 00:14:28,275 and Lindsey was with Connor, and she noticed something. 210 00:14:28,368 --> 00:14:31,998 Lindsey, like she screamed for me. 211 00:14:32,163 --> 00:14:34,923 - Okay. - (Collin speaking) 212 00:14:36,417 --> 00:14:39,207 Denise: I know it's the really difficult part. 213 00:14:40,338 --> 00:14:41,378 (Collin speaking) 214 00:14:44,133 --> 00:14:47,103 She said, "I believe something's wrong." 215 00:14:47,178 --> 00:14:50,308 And she was very concerned. 216 00:14:50,431 --> 00:14:51,721 What was Connor doing? 217 00:14:51,849 --> 00:14:56,849 Um, at the time, his leg was twitching 218 00:14:56,979 --> 00:14:59,319 - he was having seizures? - Yes. 219 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,780 - But you didn't know that at the time. - No. 220 00:15:01,859 --> 00:15:06,199 Right. At the time, all you thought was something was really wrong. 221 00:15:06,322 --> 00:15:08,372 Collin: Yes. 222 00:15:10,326 --> 00:15:12,826 The prosecutor, they're speculating that 223 00:15:12,995 --> 00:15:18,915 because you were alone with him, that you violently shook your son, 224 00:15:19,043 --> 00:15:21,303 which led to the injuries. 225 00:15:21,421 --> 00:15:25,261 The only thing I touched Connor with was loving arms. 226 00:15:25,842 --> 00:15:28,722 I, I love him, and I 227 00:15:28,845 --> 00:15:30,925 deny ever hurting him. 228 00:15:31,013 --> 00:15:34,523 Denise: But how do we prove you didn't do anything? 229 00:15:38,646 --> 00:15:40,396 Lindsey: Purple, orange or red? 230 00:15:41,566 --> 00:15:44,566 You know red. Can you color? 231 00:15:45,903 --> 00:15:47,743 Good job, Connor. 232 00:15:47,864 --> 00:15:50,034 Beau-ti-ful. 233 00:15:51,451 --> 00:15:54,121 Lindsey: The ambulance took Connor to the hospital. 234 00:15:54,203 --> 00:15:55,793 He was having seizures. 235 00:15:55,872 --> 00:16:01,252 They, er, put him into an induced coma to 236 00:16:01,335 --> 00:16:05,045 stop the seizures, and they did an mri. 237 00:16:05,173 --> 00:16:12,053 After the mri was done, they said that it looks like signs of shaken baby syndrome. 238 00:16:12,180 --> 00:16:15,930 - (Connor crying) - And, we needed to leave immediately. 239 00:16:20,146 --> 00:16:22,436 Collin was my rock. 240 00:16:23,024 --> 00:16:26,444 I was a mess. 241 00:16:26,569 --> 00:16:30,779 Looking back at it, Collin and I were very naive. 242 00:16:30,907 --> 00:16:33,237 If our eyes were open a little bit more, 243 00:16:33,367 --> 00:16:37,327 we probably could have seen it coming. 244 00:16:37,497 --> 00:16:41,537 The first night, I mean, we were already being questioned, 245 00:16:41,709 --> 00:16:45,459 um, that this wasn't something natural or organic, 246 00:16:45,588 --> 00:16:50,588 this is something done by us, is what they were implying. 247 00:16:51,511 --> 00:16:53,301 The doctor's took her hands and said, 248 00:16:53,429 --> 00:16:55,559 "you had to have done this to your child." 249 00:16:55,681 --> 00:16:59,601 "Or done this," pretending to hit his head on the wall, um, 250 00:17:00,686 --> 00:17:02,856 and that's kind of... 251 00:17:02,980 --> 00:17:07,530 That's not at all what you expect when you go to a hospital. Um... 252 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,540 (Connor cooing) 253 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,100 Denise: We're going out to see doctor Smith, 254 00:17:37,181 --> 00:17:41,561 a retired pathologist who specializes in medical research, 255 00:17:41,686 --> 00:17:45,306 and we're hoping he can explain, from start to finish 256 00:17:45,398 --> 00:17:48,688 what happened with Connor quint. 257 00:18:03,791 --> 00:18:06,921 We just really wanted your perspective as we try 258 00:18:07,044 --> 00:18:08,754 and figure out exactly what happened. 259 00:18:08,838 --> 00:18:11,418 Doctor Smith: In the case of Connor quint, they saw, 260 00:18:11,507 --> 00:18:14,177 a subdural hematoma and retinal hemorrhages, 261 00:18:14,302 --> 00:18:17,472 and that became proof, that this child was shaken. 262 00:18:17,597 --> 00:18:19,847 In my opinion, the retinal hemorrhages, 263 00:18:19,974 --> 00:18:25,444 and the subdural hematoma are related to trauma that Connor suffered at birth. 264 00:18:27,231 --> 00:18:29,821 These are images of Connor's eyes, 265 00:18:29,942 --> 00:18:32,492 after he was admitted to the hospital. 266 00:18:32,653 --> 00:18:38,333 And you can see that one eye has relatively severe retinal hemorrhages, 267 00:18:38,451 --> 00:18:41,911 and the other eye has almost no hemorrhages. 268 00:18:42,038 --> 00:18:47,998 So we often ask the experts, "how do you shake a baby and only shake one eye?" 269 00:18:48,169 --> 00:18:50,049 And the response is? 270 00:18:50,171 --> 00:18:54,091 We don't know how, but we just know from our experience, that we see this. 271 00:18:55,926 --> 00:18:56,966 Okay. 272 00:18:57,053 --> 00:18:59,063 Arthur: What I find amazing in this, 273 00:18:59,180 --> 00:19:06,190 the child abuse pediatricians just look at everything as confirming child abuse 274 00:19:06,312 --> 00:19:10,192 and don't look at anything that would negate child abuse. 275 00:19:10,358 --> 00:19:12,818 Doctor Smith: Because they've become so invested 276 00:19:12,902 --> 00:19:15,742 in the shaken baby theory. 277 00:19:15,863 --> 00:19:19,623 Careers have been built around publishing articles 278 00:19:19,742 --> 00:19:24,332 that prove that these are evidence of shaking. 279 00:19:24,413 --> 00:19:30,253 They've created a pseudoscience, and taught it in medical school. 280 00:19:32,546 --> 00:19:33,706 Unbelievable. 281 00:19:33,839 --> 00:19:37,889 I have some of the, of the scans on my computer, 282 00:19:38,010 --> 00:19:41,510 and, uh, I think it would be a good idea to show them to you. 283 00:19:42,556 --> 00:19:45,266 This is Connor's cat scan of his head, 284 00:19:45,351 --> 00:19:47,311 and you can see the brain here, 285 00:19:47,478 --> 00:19:51,318 and you can see this is spinal fluid inside the brain. 286 00:19:51,482 --> 00:19:56,492 And then you can see all of this fluid here, 287 00:19:56,570 --> 00:20:00,320 that it varies in color, from relatively white, 288 00:20:00,449 --> 00:20:02,329 similar to the skull. 289 00:20:02,451 --> 00:20:05,121 We have gray, similar to the brain, 290 00:20:05,246 --> 00:20:08,666 and we have black, similar to the spinal fluid. 291 00:20:08,833 --> 00:20:10,463 And so, in general, um, 292 00:20:10,543 --> 00:20:14,133 blood as it ages, will go from white 293 00:20:14,255 --> 00:20:16,585 to gray, to black. 294 00:20:16,716 --> 00:20:18,426 This makes it clear that the bleeding 295 00:20:18,551 --> 00:20:21,301 has been going on for some time. 296 00:20:21,429 --> 00:20:22,679 So this is consistent 297 00:20:22,847 --> 00:20:26,177 with our explanation, as to what happened to Connor. 298 00:20:26,308 --> 00:20:33,398 Yes, that it started at birth, and only became apparent when he had seizures. 299 00:20:33,524 --> 00:20:35,404 Denise: That's tremendously significant. 300 00:20:35,526 --> 00:20:38,606 That makes it clear it's a birth trauma. 301 00:20:38,904 --> 00:20:39,904 Yes. 302 00:21:01,844 --> 00:21:03,684 - Hi guys, how you doing? - Lindsey: Good. 303 00:21:03,804 --> 00:21:06,774 Arthur: All right. We brought you into the office today 304 00:21:06,849 --> 00:21:10,439 to discuss some movement that's been in the case. 305 00:21:10,561 --> 00:21:13,861 Yesterday, a prosecutor made a plea offer to us. 306 00:21:15,691 --> 00:21:18,941 They're, uh, willing to plead this, this issue down 307 00:21:19,028 --> 00:21:22,908 from child abuse, first degree, which is a potential 308 00:21:23,032 --> 00:21:26,202 life imprisonment, to child abuse in the second degree. 309 00:21:26,327 --> 00:21:29,827 It carries a ten year penalty. 310 00:21:29,914 --> 00:21:32,374 But, it is probationable. 311 00:21:32,541 --> 00:21:36,001 No guarantee of that, but you won't be facing prison 312 00:21:36,170 --> 00:21:38,260 in all probability. 313 00:21:39,507 --> 00:21:41,177 Okay. 314 00:21:41,300 --> 00:21:44,970 Denise: There is no way our system could handle trying every single case. 315 00:21:45,095 --> 00:21:48,845 The majority end up entering into a plea of some sort. 316 00:21:48,974 --> 00:21:52,314 Arthur: The judge wants this case off his docket. 317 00:21:52,436 --> 00:21:54,226 It's the oldest case on his docket. 318 00:21:54,355 --> 00:21:59,355 So, the prosecution are under pressure to get it over with. 319 00:21:59,485 --> 00:22:02,525 If you plead on this charge, 320 00:22:02,655 --> 00:22:05,115 the chance of ever undoing that, 321 00:22:05,241 --> 00:22:06,951 in the future, 322 00:22:07,034 --> 00:22:08,834 is basically out the window. 323 00:22:08,953 --> 00:22:13,003 You'll never get the opportunity to vindicate yourself. 324 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:16,790 It's not great, 325 00:22:16,877 --> 00:22:19,377 but it's something that you've gotta consider. 326 00:22:20,673 --> 00:22:22,473 Lindsey: I mean, ultimately, it is up to him. 327 00:22:22,550 --> 00:22:25,640 But I know that we can both agree that we've come so far, 328 00:22:25,761 --> 00:22:29,681 and we don't want Connor known as a shaken baby. 329 00:22:30,432 --> 00:22:32,232 Denise: We are more than willing 330 00:22:32,351 --> 00:22:34,651 and able to attack this, 331 00:22:34,770 --> 00:22:37,730 but there are pros and cons on every side, 332 00:22:37,857 --> 00:22:41,487 and that's why it has to be your decision. 333 00:22:41,569 --> 00:22:44,909 It's a chance you take that you win, and he's exonerated, 334 00:22:45,030 --> 00:22:48,740 but you take a chance that you're convicted, and you go to prison. 335 00:22:52,413 --> 00:22:57,463 Would you need his answer by like tomorrow? 336 00:22:57,585 --> 00:23:00,045 You've gotta decide it by tomorrow. 337 00:23:03,215 --> 00:23:05,655 Denise: All right, we'll talk to you guys later. Lindsey: Okay. 338 00:23:14,184 --> 00:23:17,274 Arthur: Be nice to have a good option out there, but he doesn't. 339 00:23:17,354 --> 00:23:20,734 If he goes to trial, he bets the farm on that. 340 00:23:36,665 --> 00:23:39,415 I did not expect what is coming. 341 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,880 I had no clue that 342 00:23:43,005 --> 00:23:46,425 it would be this difficult of a process. 343 00:23:46,508 --> 00:23:48,638 I mean, this is your life on the line right here. 344 00:23:48,761 --> 00:23:51,511 Obviously, it will affect the entire family, 345 00:23:51,639 --> 00:23:54,059 but if you still want to just fight. 346 00:23:55,434 --> 00:23:57,274 Like what we've been doing the past 2.5 years. 347 00:23:57,353 --> 00:24:02,903 - I want my son to know who his father is, basically. - Hmm-mmm. 348 00:24:17,289 --> 00:24:19,829 Arthur: On our way to court now. 349 00:24:19,959 --> 00:24:22,499 I can't say for certain how Collin 350 00:24:22,628 --> 00:24:24,128 is gonna be feeling, 351 00:24:24,254 --> 00:24:28,934 but I think apprehensive is probably an understatement. 352 00:24:29,009 --> 00:24:34,519 A person who's never seen the inside of a courtroom before, is now fighting for his life. 353 00:24:40,688 --> 00:24:42,058 Lindsey: You good? 354 00:24:42,189 --> 00:24:44,109 Collin: Yeah, i'm good. I'm ready. 355 00:24:45,275 --> 00:24:47,815 (Exhales) Okay. 356 00:24:47,945 --> 00:24:51,655 Arthur: If Collin declines the plea offer, 357 00:24:51,782 --> 00:24:54,662 I want to try and negotiate a bench trial. 358 00:24:54,827 --> 00:24:58,617 A bench trial is by the judge. No jury. 359 00:24:58,747 --> 00:25:01,827 There's such a great sympathy factor in these cases. 360 00:25:01,959 --> 00:25:04,799 Juries want to find somebody responsible. 361 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,590 I think the judge can divorce himself from that, 362 00:25:07,673 --> 00:25:10,133 and just look at the facts. 363 00:25:22,730 --> 00:25:28,240 Collin: I am not making this decision based on my feelings. 364 00:25:29,653 --> 00:25:33,033 It would be a decision what is best for my son. 365 00:26:18,869 --> 00:26:21,959 They want me to pick a plea deal 366 00:26:22,081 --> 00:26:27,291 or they want me to go all in on a jury trial. 367 00:26:27,461 --> 00:26:31,631 They basically want a plea deal out of this situation. 368 00:26:31,799 --> 00:26:35,719 Arthur: It'll be a jury trial most definitely, er, 369 00:26:35,844 --> 00:26:37,934 I tried for a bench trial, 370 00:26:38,055 --> 00:26:40,635 but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. 371 00:26:41,642 --> 00:26:43,732 Collin: This is kind of unfair. 372 00:26:43,852 --> 00:26:45,332 If you're guilty, you should be guilty. 373 00:26:45,354 --> 00:26:48,444 If you're not, then you should plead your case. 374 00:26:48,524 --> 00:26:54,744 And right now, that is not being presented to me, basically. 375 00:27:12,297 --> 00:27:15,087 Denise: Today we have doctor fenton coming in. 376 00:27:15,217 --> 00:27:19,137 Dr. Fenton's testimony is vital to us. 377 00:27:19,221 --> 00:27:25,521 It's the one person who can present an accurate psychological profile 378 00:27:25,644 --> 00:27:32,114 of who Collin is, and why the judge should trust that he wouldn't harm Connor. 379 00:27:32,234 --> 00:27:33,994 Doctor fenton: I met with him just last week 380 00:27:34,111 --> 00:27:37,201 and his mental status was fine. He had good judgment. 381 00:27:37,322 --> 00:27:40,162 On the personality assessment, you know, he comes out normal 382 00:27:40,242 --> 00:27:44,162 there's no signs of any serious pathology. 383 00:27:44,288 --> 00:27:47,418 He's a mild mannered, reserved individual. 384 00:27:47,541 --> 00:27:52,631 I don't see him doing anything, but being kind and gentle with his son. 385 00:27:54,006 --> 00:27:58,296 I'm certain the prosecutor is going to pound on you with, 386 00:27:58,427 --> 00:28:00,257 "well, what about these horrendous injuries?" 387 00:28:00,387 --> 00:28:03,097 - And Collin did this. - Doctor fenton: I think he's... 388 00:28:04,850 --> 00:28:06,640 Not an aggressive or violent guy. 389 00:28:06,810 --> 00:28:11,270 - Denise: Did you see any sign of psychosis? - No, no, no, nothing like that. 390 00:28:11,356 --> 00:28:16,196 My opinion still remains that he would not harm his son. 391 00:28:18,238 --> 00:28:20,818 I don't think he's a threat. I don't think he's a danger. 392 00:28:20,991 --> 00:28:22,991 He's a good dad to his son. 393 00:28:23,118 --> 00:28:25,598 Denise: All right. Well, thank you so much for coming. Doctor fenton: You're welcome. 394 00:28:25,621 --> 00:28:27,621 - Nice to see you guys. - Thank you. 395 00:28:27,706 --> 00:28:31,056 Denise: We feel really confident that the information is going to be compelling to the judge 396 00:28:31,084 --> 00:28:33,134 and is going to support our position. 397 00:28:33,253 --> 00:28:37,423 However, we are well aware that this is not gonna go down without a fight. 398 00:29:00,572 --> 00:29:03,872 Lindsey: Collin has to decide whether or not to attend 399 00:29:04,034 --> 00:29:07,754 trial, or accept a plea deal. 400 00:29:14,628 --> 00:29:18,258 The judge gave him more time to think about his decision. 401 00:29:20,259 --> 00:29:23,469 Lindsey: I can see that it's weighing on him. 402 00:29:23,637 --> 00:29:26,057 He's trying to be strong and be okay, 403 00:29:26,181 --> 00:29:31,141 but you can just tell, the energy isn't the same, and uh, 404 00:29:31,311 --> 00:29:33,981 it's definitely, he's processing it all, 405 00:29:34,106 --> 00:29:37,146 and what he thinks the best decision will be. 406 00:29:45,534 --> 00:29:49,374 Lindsey: Where's your head at? Like, where's it lying, right now? 407 00:29:49,538 --> 00:29:53,168 Um, it's kind of difficult to... 408 00:29:53,917 --> 00:29:56,417 Take a plea deal... 409 00:29:56,503 --> 00:30:02,183 Because I would be a registered child abuser for the rest of my life. 410 00:30:04,845 --> 00:30:07,385 They just want our case off of their docket 411 00:30:07,514 --> 00:30:11,484 and they're trying to figure out the fastest way to do that. 412 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,440 And that's why you know what the judge wants you to choose. 413 00:30:17,190 --> 00:30:20,150 It's no longer the fact that you deserve 414 00:30:20,277 --> 00:30:23,777 a fair trial and you deserve for innocence to prevail, 415 00:30:23,864 --> 00:30:26,874 but it's about how do you get through the game to get your family back? 416 00:30:30,871 --> 00:30:34,211 It really does seem like it's not even a choice. 417 00:30:35,500 --> 00:30:38,000 I think the best option to get our family back together 418 00:30:38,128 --> 00:30:39,798 would be accepting the plea. 419 00:30:51,892 --> 00:30:53,232 Okay. All right. 420 00:31:06,740 --> 00:31:08,240 - Hey, art. - Hey. 421 00:31:09,326 --> 00:31:11,196 - Plea has been withdrawn. - What? 422 00:31:11,703 --> 00:31:13,043 Yes. 423 00:31:13,163 --> 00:31:16,003 - Who did you talk to? - Talked to the prosecutor. 424 00:31:16,166 --> 00:31:17,996 - They played hardball? - Yep. 425 00:31:18,168 --> 00:31:19,688 Just when you think you've seen it all, 426 00:31:19,753 --> 00:31:23,133 there comes another twist in the road that you didn't expect. 427 00:31:23,298 --> 00:31:26,298 So they want a trial, they get a trial. 428 00:31:33,767 --> 00:31:35,607 Denise: Collin will be here to sit down with us 429 00:31:35,685 --> 00:31:37,845 and talk about whether he should take that plea. 430 00:31:39,606 --> 00:31:41,976 He comes in to make this big decision 431 00:31:42,109 --> 00:31:44,239 and it's not even one to be made. 432 00:31:44,361 --> 00:31:47,821 It's going to be a shock to them 433 00:31:47,948 --> 00:31:49,488 because it was a shock to us. 434 00:32:10,595 --> 00:32:14,885 Okay, Collin, the last time we spoke last week, 435 00:32:15,016 --> 00:32:20,936 uh, I presented to you a potential plea from the prosecutor's office. 436 00:32:21,022 --> 00:32:25,992 And, uh, unfortunately today, at 2:00, I spoke with the prosecutor 437 00:32:26,111 --> 00:32:29,111 and all pleas are off the table. 438 00:32:29,197 --> 00:32:33,537 We've been preparing to go to trial this whole 2.5 years, 439 00:32:33,702 --> 00:32:35,002 and that's where we're gonna go. 440 00:32:40,167 --> 00:32:41,587 I don't, I don't understand. 441 00:32:43,253 --> 00:32:44,593 (Denise breathes deeply) 442 00:32:45,964 --> 00:32:47,054 And trust me, we... 443 00:32:48,008 --> 00:32:49,888 We didn't see this coming. 444 00:32:50,010 --> 00:32:51,470 I didn't see this coming. 445 00:32:53,054 --> 00:32:56,894 I've never had a plea deal taken off the table 446 00:32:57,017 --> 00:33:00,017 on any case, and I've been practicing 27 years 447 00:33:02,814 --> 00:33:06,234 oh, another thing I was told today, they are looking at jail time. 448 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,360 Whereas we were entertaining a plea with no jail. 449 00:33:12,157 --> 00:33:13,367 Now they want jail. 450 00:33:23,293 --> 00:33:25,963 Denise: But you know, this ain't over. 451 00:33:29,424 --> 00:33:30,724 What are you thinking, Collin? 452 00:33:35,222 --> 00:33:36,392 (Breathes deeply) 453 00:33:43,355 --> 00:33:46,645 Denise: It's a lot to have somebody playing with your life. 454 00:33:49,945 --> 00:33:53,025 Lindsey: It's been weighing on him a lot this past week. 455 00:33:53,198 --> 00:33:55,028 It's just a complete like, 456 00:33:56,034 --> 00:33:57,994 messes with your mind. 457 00:33:58,161 --> 00:34:01,461 Arthur: I don't know why they're going after you the way that they are, 458 00:34:01,540 --> 00:34:04,250 but they're trying to crucify you. 459 00:34:12,717 --> 00:34:15,177 Lindsey: I don't know what to say right now. 460 00:34:15,303 --> 00:34:17,393 This feels like a game. 461 00:34:17,514 --> 00:34:19,854 And it makes me really sick to my stomach. 462 00:34:20,016 --> 00:34:22,016 Because this isn't a game. This is our life. 463 00:34:23,186 --> 00:34:25,686 With our son, with our marriage. 464 00:34:37,033 --> 00:34:39,663 Arthur: I don't believe that you ever get a fair jury trial 465 00:34:39,828 --> 00:34:43,078 in a shaken baby syndrome case. 466 00:34:43,206 --> 00:34:47,786 So the next thing I would try and do is see if there's any possibility 467 00:34:47,961 --> 00:34:51,301 um, to resurrect that plea arrangement. 468 00:34:52,924 --> 00:34:59,104 I'll probably reach out to the prosecutor tomorrow and see if uh, 469 00:34:59,222 --> 00:35:01,182 if there is any movement on her part. 470 00:35:01,308 --> 00:35:03,478 If not, we'll discuss it with the judge. 471 00:35:03,602 --> 00:35:07,022 So, there's quite a bit at stake here. 472 00:35:07,188 --> 00:35:12,068 He'll most certainly be facing serious prison time, if convicted. 473 00:35:22,704 --> 00:35:24,164 Which one more? 474 00:35:25,081 --> 00:35:26,501 Ah, thank you. 475 00:35:40,388 --> 00:35:42,388 Collin: Don't do it. Don't touch me! 476 00:35:42,515 --> 00:35:44,765 - Ow, you touched me. - (Lindsey laughs) 477 00:35:48,355 --> 00:35:51,435 Collin: If I do go to prison, 478 00:35:51,566 --> 00:35:57,906 this could be the last time that my son will know his father for a very long time. 479 00:35:58,698 --> 00:36:00,658 This is for Connor. 480 00:36:00,784 --> 00:36:02,584 I love you, Connor. 481 00:36:02,702 --> 00:36:06,122 - (Beeps) - Recording: I love you, Connor. 482 00:36:06,247 --> 00:36:10,707 I know in time that I've been with my son, 483 00:36:10,835 --> 00:36:13,795 I've shown him true love. 484 00:36:19,511 --> 00:36:21,641 Lindsey: If Collin ended up going to prison, 485 00:36:21,721 --> 00:36:24,141 I'll understand, the family will understand, 486 00:36:24,307 --> 00:36:26,597 but Connor won't understand. 487 00:36:26,685 --> 00:36:30,555 You know, it's... And that's what scares me the most. 488 00:36:31,523 --> 00:36:33,823 I don't want Connor to forget him. 489 00:36:38,029 --> 00:36:40,529 - Oh. - Recording: I love you, Connor. 490 00:36:57,966 --> 00:37:03,556 So today we're going to see where the prosecutor is at. 491 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,470 They had taken the plea off the table, 492 00:37:05,598 --> 00:37:09,188 there had been some more discussion with the judge last week. 493 00:37:09,310 --> 00:37:11,150 Art made some calls yesterday 494 00:37:11,271 --> 00:37:16,071 to follow up on what was really going on with the prosecutor's office. 495 00:37:16,192 --> 00:37:20,742 So today we find out whether they're coming back with a plea or not. 496 00:37:53,730 --> 00:37:55,270 Denise: The maximum amount of time 497 00:37:55,356 --> 00:37:58,776 he could do on a child abuse second is ten years. 498 00:38:00,904 --> 00:38:03,744 These are the most difficult decisions you make 499 00:38:03,865 --> 00:38:08,945 when your client is confident in their innocence, 500 00:38:09,037 --> 00:38:13,997 but the case itself is one that carries a lot of risk. 501 00:38:14,125 --> 00:38:19,255 So he has to ultimately make the decision, because it's his life. 502 00:38:30,517 --> 00:38:35,807 I took a deal to get me and Connor back together, 503 00:38:37,106 --> 00:38:38,686 but it's difficult. 504 00:38:46,783 --> 00:38:50,833 It's a lot for him to accept this 505 00:38:52,330 --> 00:38:53,870 when he didn't do anything. 506 00:38:57,168 --> 00:38:58,958 And it's a big step for him 507 00:38:59,128 --> 00:39:02,088 because all he cares about is his family and he's doing what he's got to do, 508 00:39:02,131 --> 00:39:04,681 even though it's not at all what he wants to do. 509 00:39:07,428 --> 00:39:09,308 I feel like I let 510 00:39:09,931 --> 00:39:13,561 my family down in a sense 511 00:39:13,685 --> 00:39:18,685 because I am now known as a child abuser. 512 00:39:18,815 --> 00:39:20,895 Even though I didn't do anything, 513 00:39:22,694 --> 00:39:25,534 the plea that was on the table today, 514 00:39:25,655 --> 00:39:28,985 was pretty much the plea that was on the table originally. 515 00:39:29,117 --> 00:39:31,737 But unfortunately, there was no agreement 516 00:39:31,870 --> 00:39:34,790 as to whether or not there would be jail time. 517 00:39:36,791 --> 00:39:40,501 We're hoping because he took this plea 518 00:39:40,628 --> 00:39:43,338 that he will not do any jail time, 519 00:39:43,464 --> 00:39:48,144 but until we appear before the judge at sentencing, we're not gonna know. 520 00:39:49,429 --> 00:39:50,929 We don't have that guarantee. 521 00:40:05,403 --> 00:40:07,323 I could face prison today 522 00:40:07,405 --> 00:40:09,155 for something I didn't do. 523 00:40:09,282 --> 00:40:12,832 Doesn't make any logical common sense. 524 00:40:16,915 --> 00:40:19,125 Denise: Big day. 525 00:40:19,250 --> 00:40:22,300 It's always difficult when you know what the right thing is, 526 00:40:22,420 --> 00:40:26,670 but you don't uh, you don't have the control to make the right decision. 527 00:40:28,676 --> 00:40:32,676 Today's goal is to keep Collin out of prison. 528 00:40:34,474 --> 00:40:35,854 So gotta have faith. 529 00:40:42,148 --> 00:40:44,818 Collin: Being Connor's father is one of the best things 530 00:40:44,943 --> 00:40:50,953 that has ever happened to me, and when I think there is possibly prison time, 531 00:40:51,032 --> 00:40:56,002 I cannot imagine a day being away from my son. 532 00:40:59,082 --> 00:41:01,922 I have always been a loving, caring father. 533 00:41:02,043 --> 00:41:05,003 And I cannot imagine a day without him. 534 00:41:31,739 --> 00:41:34,909 He's not going to be behind bars for the rest of his life. 535 00:41:36,369 --> 00:41:37,889 There's a chance to reunify this family 536 00:41:37,954 --> 00:41:40,004 and there can be a possible outcome 537 00:41:40,123 --> 00:41:44,003 for us to heal and live our lives freely 538 00:41:44,168 --> 00:41:47,458 and be happy and get this weight off of our chest 539 00:41:47,588 --> 00:41:50,128 and breathe again. 540 00:41:50,258 --> 00:41:54,178 And I'm willing to take a little time and I get my family back. 541 00:41:56,931 --> 00:41:59,481 Denise: I think there's some degree of relief. 542 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:04,730 I mean, we would have liked to have walked out of there with just probation, clearly. 543 00:42:04,856 --> 00:42:10,316 I'm sure it's gonna be a very emotional next 48 hours as the reality sets in 544 00:42:10,445 --> 00:42:14,945 and Collin's absent from the family for a period of time. 545 00:42:23,374 --> 00:42:25,964 Arthur: There would be nothing worse than to be accused 546 00:42:26,085 --> 00:42:28,915 of harming your child when you didn't do it. 547 00:42:30,173 --> 00:42:34,343 Everybody in this world's life is one millisecond away 548 00:42:34,469 --> 00:42:36,099 from being turned upside down. 549 00:42:37,764 --> 00:42:39,224 And this can happen to anybody. 550 00:42:41,309 --> 00:42:42,809 It's scary.