1 00:00:06,550 --> 00:00:08,510 (Woman speaking) 2 00:00:11,805 --> 00:00:14,349 (Collin speaking) 3 00:00:14,432 --> 00:00:16,393 - (Woman speaking) - (Collin speaking) 4 00:00:31,575 --> 00:00:33,618 (Man speaking) 5 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,008 Collin: What they're accusing me of, 6 00:00:48,133 --> 00:00:50,427 I can absolutely deny. 7 00:00:55,390 --> 00:00:57,475 Lindsey: We were already being questioned 8 00:00:57,601 --> 00:01:00,729 that this wasn't something natural or organic. 9 00:01:00,854 --> 00:01:02,230 The doctor took her hands 10 00:01:02,355 --> 00:01:05,525 and said, "you had to have done this to your child". 11 00:01:05,692 --> 00:01:09,154 Collin: Obviously, I didn't do anything to Connor. 12 00:01:09,279 --> 00:01:11,740 Being a father is the best thing that ever happened to me. 13 00:01:37,349 --> 00:01:38,933 My name is Arthur garton. 14 00:01:39,059 --> 00:01:40,727 I'm a criminal defense attorney. 15 00:01:41,394 --> 00:01:43,313 I represent Collin quint. 16 00:01:43,396 --> 00:01:46,691 He's currently charged with child abuse in the first degree. 17 00:01:48,318 --> 00:01:52,113 Collin is facing life imprisonment over these charges. 18 00:01:53,740 --> 00:01:57,285 The alleged victim is his son Connor. 19 00:01:57,410 --> 00:01:59,245 Who was nine weeks old at the time. 20 00:02:00,372 --> 00:02:02,707 The state's position is that Collin 21 00:02:02,874 --> 00:02:08,672 either shook or slammed or whatever, Connor, 22 00:02:08,755 --> 00:02:14,177 causing shaken baby syndrome/ abusive head trauma. 23 00:02:16,471 --> 00:02:20,308 Collin was home with Connor, um, 24 00:02:20,392 --> 00:02:22,936 at the time that there first 25 00:02:23,061 --> 00:02:24,437 seemed to be some signs. 26 00:02:24,562 --> 00:02:27,023 Something was going on with Connor. 27 00:02:27,107 --> 00:02:29,901 Collin immediately called his wife, Lindsey. 28 00:02:30,026 --> 00:02:34,698 They went to hospital, had Connor completely evaluated, 29 00:02:34,864 --> 00:02:36,199 and the hospital said he's fine. 30 00:02:36,741 --> 00:02:37,992 Sent him home, 31 00:02:38,076 --> 00:02:40,578 and the next day, Connor got worse. 32 00:02:40,704 --> 00:02:43,623 And unfortunately, at that point, Connor 33 00:02:43,748 --> 00:02:48,837 was having major seizures and ended up in icu. 34 00:02:48,962 --> 00:02:53,550 The doctors found subdural hematoma, which is a brain bleed. 35 00:02:53,675 --> 00:02:55,301 Because of that, there was pressure 36 00:02:55,427 --> 00:02:58,763 on the back of the eyes, which led to retinal hemorrhage, 37 00:02:58,888 --> 00:03:01,683 and they found increased swelling to the brain. 38 00:03:03,476 --> 00:03:07,689 In their opinion, Connor was shaken. 39 00:03:08,898 --> 00:03:12,068 The main question that was asked 40 00:03:12,193 --> 00:03:14,988 of these parents was... 41 00:03:15,071 --> 00:03:16,698 What happened? 42 00:03:16,865 --> 00:03:21,786 Their response was, "honestly, I have no idea, I don't know". 43 00:03:21,911 --> 00:03:23,747 And the medical professionals' position was, 44 00:03:23,872 --> 00:03:26,374 well, if you can't tell us what happened, 45 00:03:26,499 --> 00:03:29,169 then you must have abused your child. 46 00:03:30,378 --> 00:03:33,131 Art and I believe this is a birth trauma case. 47 00:03:33,214 --> 00:03:38,052 Because there are studies that show that there's a large percentage of children 48 00:03:38,219 --> 00:03:43,516 that are born vaginally with subdural hematomas. 49 00:03:43,641 --> 00:03:47,353 What happened is terrifying to me because it could happen to anyone. 50 00:03:48,730 --> 00:03:52,734 This is a loving family who have done nothing wrong, 51 00:03:52,859 --> 00:03:56,738 but be falsely accused by the system of harming their child. 52 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:09,334 Collin: So this is the apartment that we got for Connor to grow up in. 53 00:04:11,377 --> 00:04:13,213 This is our son's room. 54 00:04:14,506 --> 00:04:17,217 This is where he should be sleeping. 55 00:04:18,635 --> 00:04:22,680 I'm not allowed to live with my son. 56 00:04:22,764 --> 00:04:26,851 So, currently the family is separated. 57 00:04:26,976 --> 00:04:31,898 Lindsey, my wife, is living with her mother and Connor. 58 00:04:42,659 --> 00:04:46,746 I had a really bad brain injury. 59 00:04:46,913 --> 00:04:51,084 Communicating becomes difficult where I get foggy 60 00:04:51,209 --> 00:04:53,670 or my brain just decides we're done. 61 00:04:53,837 --> 00:04:55,004 It just shuts off. 62 00:04:56,214 --> 00:04:59,008 It is very difficult to have a brain injury 63 00:04:59,133 --> 00:05:01,094 going through what we're going through 64 00:05:01,219 --> 00:05:04,973 in the court process and the proceedings. 65 00:05:05,056 --> 00:05:09,769 Being accused of first degree child abuse against your own son, 66 00:05:09,894 --> 00:05:11,479 it's horrific. 67 00:05:12,689 --> 00:05:14,858 What they're accusing me of, 68 00:05:15,024 --> 00:05:17,318 I can absolutely deny. 69 00:05:24,576 --> 00:05:25,678 Denise: I think the prosecutor 70 00:05:25,702 --> 00:05:27,537 is playing on the fact that 71 00:05:27,704 --> 00:05:29,330 infants take a lot of work. 72 00:05:29,414 --> 00:05:33,293 They cry, they don't sleep, they get up in the middle of the night, 73 00:05:33,418 --> 00:05:35,712 and I think they're taking the position that, 74 00:05:35,879 --> 00:05:38,756 Collin is a man who could just snap. 75 00:05:38,882 --> 00:05:42,385 And that's why the shaken baby happened. 76 00:05:42,552 --> 00:05:46,890 In my opinion, they don't have any smoking gun to offer. 77 00:05:47,056 --> 00:05:51,853 They have to defer completely to the medical experts. 78 00:05:51,978 --> 00:05:55,690 Arthur: Doctors are trained to presume child abuse. 79 00:05:55,857 --> 00:05:59,652 My opinion of that is that they owed an obligation to anybody 80 00:05:59,777 --> 00:06:02,196 to see if there's some other reason 81 00:06:02,363 --> 00:06:04,198 to have these symptoms. 82 00:06:04,324 --> 00:06:05,867 They chose not to. 83 00:06:05,992 --> 00:06:09,787 The state's position is simply, it's shaken baby, 84 00:06:09,913 --> 00:06:12,790 and they're not going to change that. 85 00:06:17,962 --> 00:06:20,798 Can we try to do two more? 86 00:06:20,882 --> 00:06:22,884 Can we? Here, sit down, it's all right. 87 00:06:23,927 --> 00:06:27,847 Put the purple on top of the green. 88 00:06:27,931 --> 00:06:30,975 Pick it up and put it on top. Thank you. 89 00:06:46,157 --> 00:06:50,286 Lindsey: Connor is a very happy and healthy little boy. 90 00:06:50,411 --> 00:06:53,456 He's in speech and language therapy. 91 00:06:53,581 --> 00:06:57,877 He does communicate more so with sign language 92 00:06:58,002 --> 00:07:02,048 until he's able in time to communicate with us verbally. 93 00:07:03,383 --> 00:07:06,719 He'll say dada and then sign for help. 94 00:07:06,844 --> 00:07:08,596 That like dada to get his attention 95 00:07:08,721 --> 00:07:11,057 and letting him know that he needs help with something. 96 00:07:11,724 --> 00:07:13,142 We know it works for him. 97 00:07:13,267 --> 00:07:15,687 He wants to do more of it, and then he'll just keep growing 98 00:07:15,812 --> 00:07:17,563 and getting better every single day. 99 00:07:41,337 --> 00:07:44,590 Lindsey: Collin is under very strict rules of visiting. 100 00:07:46,217 --> 00:07:51,014 He comes over to spend time with his son when the court allows. 101 00:07:56,436 --> 00:08:00,064 - You're it. - Lindsey: Oh, he got you! 102 00:08:00,189 --> 00:08:02,066 -He got you -Collin: You're it. Oh, no. 103 00:08:02,191 --> 00:08:03,818 What are you doing? 104 00:08:03,943 --> 00:08:07,572 What are you, ugh. I meant no, you're it. 105 00:08:08,573 --> 00:08:09,991 All right. 106 00:08:10,074 --> 00:08:12,285 Yeah, there's my head. 107 00:08:13,578 --> 00:08:16,456 I see happiness in that little boy's eyes 108 00:08:16,581 --> 00:08:20,293 to be with his dad since the time is so limited 109 00:08:20,418 --> 00:08:22,503 that he gets to see his dad. 110 00:08:22,628 --> 00:08:26,424 Um, I just see the joy laid up on my grandson's face, 111 00:08:26,549 --> 00:08:29,594 and it means everything to all of us. 112 00:08:29,719 --> 00:08:31,637 - Oh! - (Connor chuckles) 113 00:08:32,388 --> 00:08:33,765 Huh? Ha! 114 00:08:33,890 --> 00:08:35,600 I think we work well as a family. 115 00:08:35,725 --> 00:08:39,562 If not, we wouldn't have made it this far together. 116 00:08:39,729 --> 00:08:41,189 We would, we would have crumbled. 117 00:08:41,647 --> 00:08:43,274 Thumbs up. 118 00:08:43,399 --> 00:08:46,652 Connor is our route to our happiness. 119 00:08:48,905 --> 00:08:51,074 If Collin ended up going to prison, 120 00:08:51,199 --> 00:08:54,160 it would break this family, very deeply. 121 00:08:55,912 --> 00:08:58,748 And it would break my heart for Connor, 122 00:08:58,915 --> 00:09:01,292 because Connor loves him so much. 123 00:09:08,633 --> 00:09:11,844 Arthur: We're bringing our client Collin quint in today. 124 00:09:11,969 --> 00:09:14,847 Make sure he understands the charges, the severity of them 125 00:09:14,972 --> 00:09:17,225 and the potential consequences. 126 00:09:18,476 --> 00:09:21,187 Denise: We initially were retained, 127 00:09:21,270 --> 00:09:24,023 but very quickly our clients ran out of money 128 00:09:24,148 --> 00:09:26,692 because they're not millionaires. 129 00:09:26,818 --> 00:09:31,030 But until we reach the finality and hopefully get justice, 130 00:09:31,114 --> 00:09:32,365 we can't let it go. 131 00:09:32,448 --> 00:09:35,993 Would I be working for free if I thought he was guilty? 132 00:09:36,077 --> 00:09:37,286 Not on your life. 133 00:09:44,043 --> 00:09:45,878 Okay, Collin, 134 00:09:46,003 --> 00:09:49,590 you're currently charged with child abuse in the first degree. 135 00:09:50,716 --> 00:09:53,010 If you were convicted of child abuse one, 136 00:09:53,177 --> 00:09:57,056 you could do up to life in prison. 137 00:09:57,181 --> 00:09:59,642 Arthur: Your case falls into what's generically 138 00:09:59,725 --> 00:10:05,523 called shaken baby syndrome/ abusive head trauma case. 139 00:10:05,606 --> 00:10:10,194 This was an area of the law that's got a great amount of controversy. 140 00:10:10,361 --> 00:10:13,406 Between whether this is diagnosis or whether 141 00:10:13,573 --> 00:10:15,908 the shaken baby syndrome is a real thing. 142 00:10:16,075 --> 00:10:18,119 But you've got a set of doctors 143 00:10:18,744 --> 00:10:20,538 who are bought into it, 144 00:10:20,705 --> 00:10:24,876 and they've been trained to presume child abuse. 145 00:10:25,001 --> 00:10:26,752 Denise: It's hard to really fault doctors 146 00:10:26,878 --> 00:10:28,838 if that's what they're trained to know. 147 00:10:29,005 --> 00:10:30,840 But as far as they're concerned, 148 00:10:30,923 --> 00:10:33,885 there can be no other explanation, 149 00:10:34,051 --> 00:10:35,928 and the prosecutor is probably going to do 150 00:10:36,053 --> 00:10:39,182 everything they can to put you in prison. 151 00:10:45,771 --> 00:10:50,568 Arthur: Collin, you're currently charged with child abuse in the first degree. 152 00:10:50,693 --> 00:10:53,321 The doctor who made the determination 153 00:10:53,404 --> 00:10:55,239 that this was child abuse 154 00:10:55,406 --> 00:11:00,119 never bothered getting the wellness records or the birth records of Connor. 155 00:11:00,244 --> 00:11:02,830 And now the prosecutor's charging you with a crime. 156 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:09,212 You have any questions? 157 00:11:12,215 --> 00:11:13,925 Not that I can think of. 158 00:11:14,050 --> 00:11:16,219 I'm just absorbing all of it. 159 00:11:17,053 --> 00:11:19,347 - Denise: It's a lot. - Yeah. 160 00:11:25,978 --> 00:11:28,189 I just, I don't understand. 161 00:11:28,314 --> 00:11:32,068 We did everything right. We took care of him. 162 00:11:34,195 --> 00:11:36,697 Arthur: Well, a jury is in all likelihood 163 00:11:36,822 --> 00:11:39,283 going to want to hold somebody responsible. 164 00:11:39,408 --> 00:11:42,954 And it's our job to get them to understand 165 00:11:43,079 --> 00:11:46,207 that this was probably related to birth trauma, 166 00:11:46,374 --> 00:11:50,169 because these injuries can happen naturally. 167 00:11:50,253 --> 00:11:52,922 As you know, your wife was in extended labor 168 00:11:53,047 --> 00:11:55,091 and you saw the accelerated head growth. 169 00:11:55,216 --> 00:11:57,593 You have the 35 percentile at birth 170 00:11:57,718 --> 00:12:00,638 and then 83 percentile nine weeks later. 171 00:12:00,721 --> 00:12:03,391 Something was going on in your child's head. 172 00:12:05,059 --> 00:12:07,520 We're here for you, and we're going to, 173 00:12:07,645 --> 00:12:12,483 fight like our life depended on it to get you through this to the end. 174 00:12:13,025 --> 00:12:14,485 - Collin: Okay. - Okay? 175 00:12:16,570 --> 00:12:17,570 Okay. 176 00:12:26,914 --> 00:12:28,165 Denise: It's all right. 177 00:12:28,791 --> 00:12:30,835 I can't imagine the pain. 178 00:12:39,385 --> 00:12:43,180 Today, I'm going to Collin and Lindsey's apartment. 179 00:12:43,306 --> 00:12:48,227 To have a better understanding of our client's story. 180 00:12:48,394 --> 00:12:54,066 The prosecution would tell you that the apartment is the scene of the crime. 181 00:12:54,191 --> 00:12:57,278 It's where Collin did something to Connor. 182 00:12:59,030 --> 00:13:00,489 Collin's got a target on his back, 183 00:13:00,614 --> 00:13:03,826 and unfortunately though you're innocent until proven guilty, 184 00:13:03,909 --> 00:13:07,913 you're really guilty until proven innocent. 185 00:13:11,625 --> 00:13:17,048 Collin, I came over today because I kind of want to understand 186 00:13:17,214 --> 00:13:20,801 what happened back on August 1st and August 2nd. 187 00:13:20,926 --> 00:13:22,803 We'll start with August 1st. 188 00:13:22,928 --> 00:13:25,264 Where were you and Connor 189 00:13:25,389 --> 00:13:28,267 when you first noticed something was off? 190 00:13:28,392 --> 00:13:30,853 In the room, watching TV. 191 00:13:30,936 --> 00:13:32,605 And then I looked over at him, 192 00:13:32,730 --> 00:13:35,399 and his eyes were just... 193 00:13:35,524 --> 00:13:40,029 Fixated, like looking straight without moving. 194 00:13:40,154 --> 00:13:42,114 Within seconds, he was okay. 195 00:13:42,239 --> 00:13:44,408 But I instantly called Lindsey. 196 00:13:44,575 --> 00:13:47,536 And then did you guys go to the hospital together? 197 00:13:47,661 --> 00:13:48,954 Yeah. 198 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,707 So, what did the doctors conclude, if anything? 199 00:13:51,874 --> 00:13:54,752 They did a chest X-ray, 200 00:13:54,919 --> 00:13:57,713 and he was perfectly fine. 201 00:13:57,838 --> 00:14:00,925 Okay. And they said he could go home? 202 00:14:01,050 --> 00:14:02,235 - Yes. - Is that what they told you? 203 00:14:02,259 --> 00:14:04,011 - Yes. - And they discharged him? 204 00:14:04,095 --> 00:14:05,221 Yep. 205 00:14:10,684 --> 00:14:13,104 So when did Lindsey come home? 206 00:14:13,229 --> 00:14:16,607 I want to say at 11 a. M. Something. 207 00:14:16,732 --> 00:14:20,861 Prior information you guys had given us was that... 208 00:14:20,986 --> 00:14:24,073 You and sue were downstairs, Lindsey's mom, 209 00:14:24,198 --> 00:14:28,327 and Lindsey was with Connor, and she noticed something. 210 00:14:28,411 --> 00:14:32,039 Lindsey, like she screamed for me. 211 00:14:32,206 --> 00:14:34,959 - Okay. - (Collin speaking) 212 00:14:36,460 --> 00:14:39,255 Denise: I know it's the really difficult part. 213 00:14:40,381 --> 00:14:41,424 (Collin speaking) 214 00:14:44,176 --> 00:14:47,138 She said, "I believe something's wrong." 215 00:14:47,221 --> 00:14:50,349 And she was very concerned. 216 00:14:50,474 --> 00:14:51,767 What was Connor doing? 217 00:14:51,892 --> 00:14:56,897 Um, at the time, his leg was twitching 218 00:14:57,022 --> 00:14:59,358 - he was having seizures? - Yes. 219 00:14:59,483 --> 00:15:01,819 - But you didn't know that at the time. - No. 220 00:15:01,902 --> 00:15:06,240 Right. At the time, all you thought was something was really wrong. 221 00:15:06,365 --> 00:15:08,409 Collin: Yes. 222 00:15:10,369 --> 00:15:12,872 The prosecutor, they're speculating that 223 00:15:13,038 --> 00:15:18,961 because you were alone with him, that you violently shook your son, 224 00:15:19,086 --> 00:15:21,338 which led to the injuries. 225 00:15:21,464 --> 00:15:25,301 The only thing I touched Connor with was loving arms. 226 00:15:25,885 --> 00:15:28,762 I, I love him, and I 227 00:15:28,888 --> 00:15:30,973 deny ever hurting him. 228 00:15:31,056 --> 00:15:34,560 Denise: But how do we prove you didn't do anything? 229 00:15:38,689 --> 00:15:40,441 Lindsey: Purple, orange or red? 230 00:15:41,609 --> 00:15:44,612 You know red. Can you color? 231 00:15:45,946 --> 00:15:47,781 Good job, Connor. 232 00:15:47,907 --> 00:15:50,075 Beau-ti-ful. 233 00:15:51,494 --> 00:15:54,163 Lindsey: The ambulance took Connor to the hospital. 234 00:15:54,246 --> 00:15:55,831 He was having seizures. 235 00:15:55,915 --> 00:16:01,295 They, er, put him into an induced coma to 236 00:16:01,378 --> 00:16:05,090 stop the seizures, and they did an mri. 237 00:16:05,216 --> 00:16:12,097 After the mri was done, they said that it looks like signs of shaken baby syndrome. 238 00:16:12,223 --> 00:16:15,976 - (Connor crying) - And, we needed to leave immediately. 239 00:16:20,189 --> 00:16:22,483 Collin was my rock. 240 00:16:23,067 --> 00:16:26,487 I was a mess. 241 00:16:26,612 --> 00:16:30,824 Looking back at it, Collin and I were very naive. 242 00:16:30,950 --> 00:16:33,285 If our eyes were open a little bit more, 243 00:16:33,410 --> 00:16:37,373 we probably could have seen it coming. 244 00:16:37,540 --> 00:16:41,585 The first night, I mean, we were already being questioned, 245 00:16:41,752 --> 00:16:45,506 um, that this wasn't something natural or organic, 246 00:16:45,631 --> 00:16:50,636 this is something done by us, is what they were implying. 247 00:16:51,554 --> 00:16:53,347 The doctor's took her hands and said, 248 00:16:53,472 --> 00:16:55,599 "you had to have done this to your child." 249 00:16:55,724 --> 00:16:59,645 "Or done this," pretending to hit his head on the wall, um, 250 00:17:00,729 --> 00:17:02,898 and that's kind of... 251 00:17:03,023 --> 00:17:07,570 That's not at all what you expect when you go to a hospital. Um... 252 00:17:23,043 --> 00:17:24,587 (Connor cooing) 253 00:17:34,763 --> 00:17:37,141 Denise: We're going out to see doctor Smith, 254 00:17:37,224 --> 00:17:41,604 a retired pathologist who specializes in medical research, 255 00:17:41,729 --> 00:17:45,357 and we're hoping he can explain, from start to finish 256 00:17:45,441 --> 00:17:48,736 what happened with Connor quint. 257 00:18:03,834 --> 00:18:06,962 We just really wanted your perspective as we try 258 00:18:07,087 --> 00:18:08,797 and figure out exactly what happened. 259 00:18:08,881 --> 00:18:11,467 Doctor Smith: In the case of Connor quint, they saw, 260 00:18:11,550 --> 00:18:14,219 a subdural hematoma and retinal hemorrhages, 261 00:18:14,345 --> 00:18:17,514 and that became proof, that this child was shaken. 262 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:19,892 In my opinion, the retinal hemorrhages, 263 00:18:20,017 --> 00:18:25,481 and the subdural hematoma are related to trauma that Connor suffered at birth. 264 00:18:27,274 --> 00:18:29,860 These are images of Connor's eyes, 265 00:18:29,985 --> 00:18:32,529 after he was admitted to the hospital. 266 00:18:32,696 --> 00:18:38,369 And you can see that one eye has relatively severe retinal hemorrhages, 267 00:18:38,494 --> 00:18:41,955 and the other eye has almost no hemorrhages. 268 00:18:42,081 --> 00:18:48,045 So we often ask the experts, "how do you shake a baby and only shake one eye?" 269 00:18:48,212 --> 00:18:50,089 And the response is? 270 00:18:50,214 --> 00:18:54,134 We don't know how, but we just know from our experience, that we see this. 271 00:18:55,969 --> 00:18:57,012 Okay. 272 00:18:57,096 --> 00:18:59,098 Arthur: What I find amazing in this, 273 00:18:59,223 --> 00:19:06,230 the child abuse pediatricians just look at everything as confirming child abuse 274 00:19:06,355 --> 00:19:10,234 and don't look at anything that would negate child abuse. 275 00:19:10,401 --> 00:19:12,861 Doctor Smith: Because they've become so invested 276 00:19:12,945 --> 00:19:15,781 in the shaken baby theory. 277 00:19:15,906 --> 00:19:19,660 Careers have been built around publishing articles 278 00:19:19,785 --> 00:19:24,373 that prove that these are evidence of shaking. 279 00:19:24,456 --> 00:19:30,295 They've created a pseudoscience, and taught it in medical school. 280 00:19:32,589 --> 00:19:33,757 Unbelievable. 281 00:19:33,882 --> 00:19:37,928 I have some of the, of the scans on my computer, 282 00:19:38,053 --> 00:19:41,557 and, uh, I think it would be a good idea to show them to you. 283 00:19:42,599 --> 00:19:45,310 This is Connor's cat scan of his head, 284 00:19:45,394 --> 00:19:47,354 and you can see the brain here, 285 00:19:47,521 --> 00:19:51,358 and you can see this is spinal fluid inside the brain. 286 00:19:51,525 --> 00:19:56,530 And then you can see all of this fluid here, 287 00:19:56,613 --> 00:20:00,367 that it varies in color, from relatively white, 288 00:20:00,492 --> 00:20:02,369 similar to the skull. 289 00:20:02,494 --> 00:20:05,164 We have gray, similar to the brain, 290 00:20:05,289 --> 00:20:08,709 and we have black, similar to the spinal fluid. 291 00:20:08,876 --> 00:20:10,502 And so, in general, um, 292 00:20:10,586 --> 00:20:14,173 blood as it ages, will go from white 293 00:20:14,298 --> 00:20:16,633 to gray, to black. 294 00:20:16,759 --> 00:20:18,469 This makes it clear that the bleeding 295 00:20:18,594 --> 00:20:21,346 has been going on for some time. 296 00:20:21,472 --> 00:20:22,723 So this is consistent 297 00:20:22,890 --> 00:20:26,226 with our explanation, as to what happened to Connor. 298 00:20:26,351 --> 00:20:33,442 Yes, that it started at birth, and only became apparent when he had seizures. 299 00:20:33,567 --> 00:20:35,444 Denise: That's tremendously significant. 300 00:20:35,569 --> 00:20:38,655 That makes it clear it's a birth trauma. 301 00:20:38,947 --> 00:20:39,947 Yes. 302 00:21:01,887 --> 00:21:03,722 - Hi guys, how you doing? - Lindsey: Good. 303 00:21:03,847 --> 00:21:06,809 Arthur: All right. We brought you into the office today 304 00:21:06,892 --> 00:21:10,479 to discuss some movement that's been in the case. 305 00:21:10,604 --> 00:21:13,899 Yesterday, a prosecutor made a plea offer to us. 306 00:21:15,734 --> 00:21:18,987 They're, uh, willing to plead this, this issue down 307 00:21:19,071 --> 00:21:22,950 from child abuse, first degree, which is a potential 308 00:21:23,075 --> 00:21:26,245 life imprisonment, to child abuse in the second degree. 309 00:21:26,370 --> 00:21:29,873 It carries a ten year penalty. 310 00:21:29,957 --> 00:21:32,417 But, it is probationable. 311 00:21:32,584 --> 00:21:36,046 No guarantee of that, but you won't be facing prison 312 00:21:36,213 --> 00:21:38,298 in all probability. 313 00:21:39,550 --> 00:21:41,218 Okay. 314 00:21:41,343 --> 00:21:45,013 Denise: There is no way our system could handle trying every single case. 315 00:21:45,138 --> 00:21:48,892 The majority end up entering into a plea of some sort. 316 00:21:49,017 --> 00:21:52,354 Arthur: The judge wants this case off his docket. 317 00:21:52,479 --> 00:21:54,273 It's the oldest case on his docket. 318 00:21:54,398 --> 00:21:59,403 So, the prosecution are under pressure to get it over with. 319 00:21:59,528 --> 00:22:02,573 If you plead on this charge, 320 00:22:02,698 --> 00:22:05,158 the chance of ever undoing that, 321 00:22:05,284 --> 00:22:06,994 in the future, 322 00:22:07,077 --> 00:22:08,871 is basically out the window. 323 00:22:08,996 --> 00:22:13,041 You'll never get the opportunity to vindicate yourself. 324 00:22:15,043 --> 00:22:16,837 It's not great, 325 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,423 but it's something that you've gotta consider. 326 00:22:20,716 --> 00:22:22,509 Lindsey: I mean, ultimately, it is up to him. 327 00:22:22,593 --> 00:22:25,679 But I know that we can both agree that we've come so far, 328 00:22:25,804 --> 00:22:29,725 and we don't want Connor known as a shaken baby. 329 00:22:30,475 --> 00:22:32,269 Denise: We are more than willing 330 00:22:32,394 --> 00:22:34,688 and able to attack this, 331 00:22:34,813 --> 00:22:37,774 but there are pros and cons on every side, 332 00:22:37,900 --> 00:22:41,528 and that's why it has to be your decision. 333 00:22:41,612 --> 00:22:44,948 It's a chance you take that you win, and he's exonerated, 334 00:22:45,073 --> 00:22:48,785 but you take a chance that you're convicted, and you go to prison. 335 00:22:52,456 --> 00:22:57,502 Would you need his answer by like tomorrow? 336 00:22:57,628 --> 00:23:00,088 You've gotta decide it by tomorrow. 337 00:23:03,258 --> 00:23:05,698 Denise: All right, we'll talk to you guys later. Lindsey: Okay. 338 00:23:14,227 --> 00:23:17,314 Arthur: Be nice to have a good option out there, but he doesn't. 339 00:23:17,397 --> 00:23:20,776 If he goes to trial, he bets the farm on that. 340 00:23:36,708 --> 00:23:39,461 I did not expect what is coming. 341 00:23:40,003 --> 00:23:42,923 I had no clue that 342 00:23:43,048 --> 00:23:46,468 it would be this difficult of a process. 343 00:23:46,551 --> 00:23:48,679 I mean, this is your life on the line right here. 344 00:23:48,804 --> 00:23:51,556 Obviously, it will affect the entire family, 345 00:23:51,682 --> 00:23:54,101 but if you still want to just fight. 346 00:23:55,477 --> 00:23:57,312 Like what we've been doing the past 2.5 years. 347 00:23:57,396 --> 00:24:02,943 - I want my son to know who his father is, basically. - Hmm-mmm. 348 00:24:17,332 --> 00:24:19,876 Arthur: On our way to court now. 349 00:24:20,002 --> 00:24:22,546 I can't say for certain how Collin 350 00:24:22,671 --> 00:24:24,172 is gonna be feeling, 351 00:24:24,297 --> 00:24:28,969 but I think apprehensive is probably an understatement. 352 00:24:29,052 --> 00:24:34,558 A person who's never seen the inside of a courtroom before, is now fighting for his life. 353 00:24:40,731 --> 00:24:42,107 Lindsey: You good? 354 00:24:42,232 --> 00:24:44,151 Collin: Yeah, i'm good. I'm ready. 355 00:24:45,318 --> 00:24:47,863 (Exhales) Okay. 356 00:24:47,988 --> 00:24:51,700 Arthur: If Collin declines the plea offer, 357 00:24:51,825 --> 00:24:54,703 I want to try and negotiate a bench trial. 358 00:24:54,870 --> 00:24:58,665 A bench trial is by the judge. No jury. 359 00:24:58,790 --> 00:25:01,877 There's such a great sympathy factor in these cases. 360 00:25:02,002 --> 00:25:04,838 Juries want to find somebody responsible. 361 00:25:04,963 --> 00:25:07,632 I think the judge can divorce himself from that, 362 00:25:07,716 --> 00:25:10,177 and just look at the facts. 363 00:25:22,773 --> 00:25:28,278 Collin: I am not making this decision based on my feelings. 364 00:25:29,696 --> 00:25:33,075 It would be a decision what is best for my son. 365 00:26:18,912 --> 00:26:21,998 They want me to pick a plea deal 366 00:26:22,124 --> 00:26:27,337 or they want me to go all in on a jury trial. 367 00:26:27,504 --> 00:26:31,675 They basically want a plea deal out of this situation. 368 00:26:31,842 --> 00:26:35,762 Arthur: It'll be a jury trial most definitely, er, 369 00:26:35,887 --> 00:26:37,973 I tried for a bench trial, 370 00:26:38,098 --> 00:26:40,684 but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. 371 00:26:41,685 --> 00:26:43,770 Collin: This is kind of unfair. 372 00:26:43,895 --> 00:26:45,373 If you're guilty, you should be guilty. 373 00:26:45,397 --> 00:26:48,483 If you're not, then you should plead your case. 374 00:26:48,567 --> 00:26:54,781 And right now, that is not being presented to me, basically. 375 00:27:12,340 --> 00:27:15,135 Denise: Today we have doctor fenton coming in. 376 00:27:15,260 --> 00:27:19,181 Dr. Fenton's testimony is vital to us. 377 00:27:19,264 --> 00:27:25,562 It's the one person who can present an accurate psychological profile 378 00:27:25,687 --> 00:27:32,152 of who Collin is, and why the judge should trust that he wouldn't harm Connor. 379 00:27:32,277 --> 00:27:34,029 Doctor fenton: I met with him just last week 380 00:27:34,154 --> 00:27:37,240 and his mental status was fine. He had good judgment. 381 00:27:37,365 --> 00:27:40,202 On the personality assessment, you know, he comes out normal 382 00:27:40,285 --> 00:27:44,206 there's no signs of any serious pathology. 383 00:27:44,331 --> 00:27:47,459 He's a mild mannered, reserved individual. 384 00:27:47,584 --> 00:27:52,672 I don't see him doing anything, but being kind and gentle with his son. 385 00:27:54,049 --> 00:27:58,345 I'm certain the prosecutor is going to pound on you with, 386 00:27:58,470 --> 00:28:00,305 "well, what about these horrendous injuries?" 387 00:28:00,430 --> 00:28:03,141 - And Collin did this. - Doctor fenton: I think he's... 388 00:28:04,893 --> 00:28:06,686 Not an aggressive or violent guy. 389 00:28:06,853 --> 00:28:11,316 - Denise: Did you see any sign of psychosis? - No, no, no, nothing like that. 390 00:28:11,399 --> 00:28:16,238 My opinion still remains that he would not harm his son. 391 00:28:18,281 --> 00:28:20,867 I don't think he's a threat. I don't think he's a danger. 392 00:28:21,034 --> 00:28:23,036 He's a good dad to his son. 393 00:28:23,161 --> 00:28:25,640 Denise: All right. Well, thank you so much for coming. Doctor fenton: You're welcome. 394 00:28:25,664 --> 00:28:27,666 - Nice to see you guys. - Thank you. 395 00:28:27,749 --> 00:28:31,103 Denise: We feel really confident that the information is going to be compelling to the judge 396 00:28:31,127 --> 00:28:33,171 and is going to support our position. 397 00:28:33,296 --> 00:28:37,467 However, we are well aware that this is not gonna go down without a fight. 398 00:29:00,615 --> 00:29:03,910 Lindsey: Collin has to decide whether or not to attend 399 00:29:04,077 --> 00:29:07,789 trial, or accept a plea deal. 400 00:29:14,671 --> 00:29:18,300 The judge gave him more time to think about his decision. 401 00:29:20,302 --> 00:29:23,513 Lindsey: I can see that it's weighing on him. 402 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,099 He's trying to be strong and be okay, 403 00:29:26,224 --> 00:29:31,187 but you can just tell, the energy isn't the same, and uh, 404 00:29:31,354 --> 00:29:34,024 it's definitely, he's processing it all, 405 00:29:34,149 --> 00:29:37,193 and what he thinks the best decision will be. 406 00:29:45,577 --> 00:29:49,414 Lindsey: Where's your head at? Like, where's it lying, right now? 407 00:29:49,581 --> 00:29:53,209 Um, it's kind of difficult to... 408 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,463 Take a plea deal... 409 00:29:56,546 --> 00:30:02,218 Because I would be a registered child abuser for the rest of my life. 410 00:30:04,888 --> 00:30:07,432 They just want our case off of their docket 411 00:30:07,557 --> 00:30:11,519 and they're trying to figure out the fastest way to do that. 412 00:30:11,603 --> 00:30:15,482 And that's why you know what the judge wants you to choose. 413 00:30:17,233 --> 00:30:20,195 It's no longer the fact that you deserve 414 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,823 a fair trial and you deserve for innocence to prevail, 415 00:30:23,907 --> 00:30:26,910 but it's about how do you get through the game to get your family back? 416 00:30:30,914 --> 00:30:34,250 It really does seem like it's not even a choice. 417 00:30:35,543 --> 00:30:38,046 I think the best option to get our family back together 418 00:30:38,171 --> 00:30:39,839 would be accepting the plea. 419 00:30:51,935 --> 00:30:53,269 Okay. All right. 420 00:31:06,783 --> 00:31:08,284 - Hey, art. - Hey. 421 00:31:09,369 --> 00:31:11,246 - Plea has been withdrawn. - What? 422 00:31:11,746 --> 00:31:13,081 Yes. 423 00:31:13,206 --> 00:31:16,042 - Who did you talk to? - Talked to the prosecutor. 424 00:31:16,209 --> 00:31:18,044 - They played hardball? - Yep. 425 00:31:18,211 --> 00:31:19,731 Just when you think you've seen it all, 426 00:31:19,796 --> 00:31:23,174 there comes another twist in the road that you didn't expect. 427 00:31:23,341 --> 00:31:26,344 So they want a trial, they get a trial. 428 00:31:33,810 --> 00:31:35,650 Denise: Collin will be here to sit down with us 429 00:31:35,728 --> 00:31:37,897 and talk about whether he should take that plea. 430 00:31:39,649 --> 00:31:42,026 He comes in to make this big decision 431 00:31:42,152 --> 00:31:44,279 and it's not even one to be made. 432 00:31:44,404 --> 00:31:47,866 It's going to be a shock to them 433 00:31:47,991 --> 00:31:49,534 because it was a shock to us. 434 00:32:10,638 --> 00:32:14,934 Okay, Collin, the last time we spoke last week, 435 00:32:15,059 --> 00:32:20,982 uh, I presented to you a potential plea from the prosecutor's office. 436 00:32:21,065 --> 00:32:26,029 And, uh, unfortunately today, at 2:00, I spoke with the prosecutor 437 00:32:26,154 --> 00:32:29,157 and all pleas are off the table. 438 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:33,578 We've been preparing to go to trial this whole 2.5 years, 439 00:32:33,745 --> 00:32:35,038 and that's where we're gonna go. 440 00:32:40,210 --> 00:32:41,628 I don't, I don't understand. 441 00:32:43,296 --> 00:32:44,631 (Denise breathes deeply) 442 00:32:46,007 --> 00:32:47,091 And trust me, we... 443 00:32:48,051 --> 00:32:49,928 We didn't see this coming. 444 00:32:50,053 --> 00:32:51,513 I didn't see this coming. 445 00:32:53,097 --> 00:32:56,935 I've never had a plea deal taken off the table 446 00:32:57,060 --> 00:33:00,063 on any case, and I've been practicing 27 years 447 00:33:02,857 --> 00:33:06,277 oh, another thing I was told today, they are looking at jail time. 448 00:33:08,363 --> 00:33:11,407 Whereas we were entertaining a plea with no jail. 449 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:13,409 Now they want jail. 450 00:33:23,336 --> 00:33:26,005 Denise: But you know, this ain't over. 451 00:33:29,467 --> 00:33:30,760 What are you thinking, Collin? 452 00:33:35,265 --> 00:33:36,432 (Breathes deeply) 453 00:33:43,398 --> 00:33:46,693 Denise: It's a lot to have somebody playing with your life. 454 00:33:49,988 --> 00:33:53,074 Lindsey: It's been weighing on him a lot this past week. 455 00:33:53,241 --> 00:33:55,076 It's just a complete like, 456 00:33:56,077 --> 00:33:58,037 messes with your mind. 457 00:33:58,204 --> 00:34:01,499 Arthur: I don't know why they're going after you the way that they are, 458 00:34:01,583 --> 00:34:04,294 but they're trying to crucify you. 459 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,221 Lindsey: I don't know what to say right now. 460 00:34:15,346 --> 00:34:17,432 This feels like a game. 461 00:34:17,557 --> 00:34:19,892 And it makes me really sick to my stomach. 462 00:34:20,059 --> 00:34:22,061 Because this isn't a game. This is our life. 463 00:34:23,229 --> 00:34:25,732 With our son, with our marriage. 464 00:34:37,076 --> 00:34:39,704 Arthur: I don't believe that you ever get a fair jury trial 465 00:34:39,871 --> 00:34:43,124 in a shaken baby syndrome case. 466 00:34:43,249 --> 00:34:47,837 So the next thing I would try and do is see if there's any possibility 467 00:34:48,004 --> 00:34:51,341 um, to resurrect that plea arrangement. 468 00:34:52,967 --> 00:34:59,140 I'll probably reach out to the prosecutor tomorrow and see if uh, 469 00:34:59,265 --> 00:35:01,225 if there is any movement on her part. 470 00:35:01,351 --> 00:35:03,519 If not, we'll discuss it with the judge. 471 00:35:03,645 --> 00:35:07,065 So, there's quite a bit at stake here. 472 00:35:07,231 --> 00:35:12,111 He'll most certainly be facing serious prison time, if convicted. 473 00:35:22,747 --> 00:35:24,207 Which one more? 474 00:35:25,124 --> 00:35:26,542 Ah, thank you. 475 00:35:40,431 --> 00:35:42,433 Collin: Don't do it. Don't touch me! 476 00:35:42,558 --> 00:35:44,811 - Ow, you touched me. - (Lindsey laughs) 477 00:35:48,398 --> 00:35:51,484 Collin: If I do go to prison, 478 00:35:51,609 --> 00:35:57,949 this could be the last time that my son will know his father for a very long time. 479 00:35:58,741 --> 00:36:00,702 This is for Connor. 480 00:36:00,827 --> 00:36:02,620 I love you, Connor. 481 00:36:02,745 --> 00:36:06,165 - (Beeps) - Recording: I love you, Connor. 482 00:36:06,290 --> 00:36:10,753 I know in time that I've been with my son, 483 00:36:10,878 --> 00:36:13,840 I've shown him true love. 484 00:36:19,554 --> 00:36:21,681 Lindsey: If Collin ended up going to prison, 485 00:36:21,764 --> 00:36:24,183 I'll understand, the family will understand, 486 00:36:24,350 --> 00:36:26,644 but Connor won't understand. 487 00:36:26,728 --> 00:36:30,606 You know, it's... And that's what scares me the most. 488 00:36:31,566 --> 00:36:33,860 I don't want Connor to forget him. 489 00:36:38,072 --> 00:36:40,575 - Oh. - Recording: I love you, Connor. 490 00:36:58,009 --> 00:37:03,598 So today we're going to see where the prosecutor is at. 491 00:37:03,723 --> 00:37:05,516 They had taken the plea off the table, 492 00:37:05,641 --> 00:37:09,228 there had been some more discussion with the judge last week. 493 00:37:09,353 --> 00:37:11,189 Art made some calls yesterday 494 00:37:11,314 --> 00:37:16,110 to follow up on what was really going on with the prosecutor's office. 495 00:37:16,235 --> 00:37:20,782 So today we find out whether they're coming back with a plea or not. 496 00:37:53,773 --> 00:37:55,316 Denise: The maximum amount of time 497 00:37:55,399 --> 00:37:58,820 he could do on a child abuse second is ten years. 498 00:38:00,947 --> 00:38:03,783 These are the most difficult decisions you make 499 00:38:03,908 --> 00:38:08,996 when your client is confident in their innocence, 500 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:14,043 but the case itself is one that carries a lot of risk. 501 00:38:14,168 --> 00:38:19,298 So he has to ultimately make the decision, because it's his life. 502 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:35,857 I took a deal to get me and Connor back together, 503 00:38:37,149 --> 00:38:38,734 but it's difficult. 504 00:38:46,826 --> 00:38:50,872 It's a lot for him to accept this 505 00:38:52,373 --> 00:38:53,916 when he didn't do anything. 506 00:38:57,211 --> 00:38:59,005 And it's a big step for him 507 00:38:59,171 --> 00:39:02,131 because all he cares about is his family and he's doing what he's got to do, 508 00:39:02,174 --> 00:39:04,719 even though it's not at all what he wants to do. 509 00:39:07,471 --> 00:39:09,348 I feel like I let 510 00:39:09,974 --> 00:39:13,603 my family down in a sense 511 00:39:13,728 --> 00:39:18,733 because I am now known as a child abuser. 512 00:39:18,858 --> 00:39:20,943 Even though I didn't do anything, 513 00:39:22,737 --> 00:39:25,573 the plea that was on the table today, 514 00:39:25,698 --> 00:39:29,035 was pretty much the plea that was on the table originally. 515 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,787 But unfortunately, there was no agreement 516 00:39:31,913 --> 00:39:34,832 as to whether or not there would be jail time. 517 00:39:36,834 --> 00:39:40,546 We're hoping because he took this plea 518 00:39:40,671 --> 00:39:43,382 that he will not do any jail time, 519 00:39:43,507 --> 00:39:48,179 but until we appear before the judge at sentencing, we're not gonna know. 520 00:39:49,472 --> 00:39:50,973 We don't have that guarantee. 521 00:40:05,446 --> 00:40:07,365 I could face prison today 522 00:40:07,448 --> 00:40:09,200 for something I didn't do. 523 00:40:09,325 --> 00:40:12,870 Doesn't make any logical common sense. 524 00:40:16,958 --> 00:40:19,168 Denise: Big day. 525 00:40:19,293 --> 00:40:22,338 It's always difficult when you know what the right thing is, 526 00:40:22,463 --> 00:40:26,717 but you don't uh, you don't have the control to make the right decision. 527 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,723 Today's goal is to keep Collin out of prison. 528 00:40:34,517 --> 00:40:35,893 So gotta have faith. 529 00:40:42,191 --> 00:40:44,860 Collin: Being Connor's father is one of the best things 530 00:40:44,986 --> 00:40:50,992 that has ever happened to me, and when I think there is possibly prison time, 531 00:40:51,075 --> 00:40:56,038 I cannot imagine a day being away from my son. 532 00:40:59,125 --> 00:41:01,961 I have always been a loving, caring father. 533 00:41:02,086 --> 00:41:05,047 And I cannot imagine a day without him. 534 00:41:31,782 --> 00:41:34,952 He's not going to be behind bars for the rest of his life. 535 00:41:36,412 --> 00:41:37,932 There's a chance to reunify this family 536 00:41:37,997 --> 00:41:40,041 and there can be a possible outcome 537 00:41:40,166 --> 00:41:44,045 for us to heal and live our lives freely 538 00:41:44,211 --> 00:41:47,506 and be happy and get this weight off of our chest 539 00:41:47,631 --> 00:41:50,176 and breathe again. 540 00:41:50,301 --> 00:41:54,221 And I'm willing to take a little time and I get my family back. 541 00:41:56,974 --> 00:41:59,518 Denise: I think there's some degree of relief. 542 00:41:59,643 --> 00:42:04,774 I mean, we would have liked to have walked out of there with just probation, clearly. 543 00:42:04,899 --> 00:42:10,362 I'm sure it's gonna be a very emotional next 48 hours as the reality sets in 544 00:42:10,488 --> 00:42:14,992 and Collin's absent from the family for a period of time. 545 00:42:23,417 --> 00:42:26,003 Arthur: There would be nothing worse than to be accused 546 00:42:26,128 --> 00:42:28,964 of harming your child when you didn't do it. 547 00:42:30,216 --> 00:42:34,386 Everybody in this world's life is one millisecond away 548 00:42:34,512 --> 00:42:36,138 from being turned upside down. 549 00:42:37,807 --> 00:42:39,266 And this can happen to anybody. 550 00:42:41,352 --> 00:42:42,853 It's scary.