1
00:00:10,903 --> 00:00:12,586
(dial tone)
2
00:00:12,738 --> 00:00:13,846
(dispatch speaking)
3
00:00:14,849 --> 00:00:16,089
(jon speaking)
4
00:00:16,242 --> 00:00:17,758
(dispatch speaking)
5
00:00:17,852 --> 00:00:19,601
(jon speaking)
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00:00:21,247 --> 00:00:22,429
(dispatch speaking)
7
00:00:22,523 --> 00:00:23,647
(jon speaking)
8
00:00:30,606 --> 00:00:32,923
Jon: It hurt me
to lose a friend.
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00:00:33,016 --> 00:00:34,950
I trusted him.
I trusted that man.
10
00:00:55,798 --> 00:00:58,632
I called my wife and told my
wife that tim had attacked me,
11
00:00:58,784 --> 00:01:01,968
That I had cut him.
It was bad.
12
00:01:02,121 --> 00:01:03,970
The thing that kills me
the most about it.
13
00:01:04,065 --> 00:01:08,716
I've spent two years of agony,
just to defend myself.
14
00:01:08,811 --> 00:01:10,652
And it's his word against mine.
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I wouldn't wish this on
my worst enemy.
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My name is winston throgmorton.
17
00:01:27,254 --> 00:01:29,996
I'm a criminal defense attorney
in marion, illinois.
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00:01:30,149 --> 00:01:31,648
I represent jon deneef.
19
00:01:31,667 --> 00:01:34,985
And initially, jon was charged
with attempted murder.
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00:01:35,078 --> 00:01:37,078
That, thankfully was dropped.
21
00:01:37,172 --> 00:01:38,989
He's now charged
with aggravated battery,
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00:01:39,082 --> 00:01:40,415
Which is a class three felony.
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00:01:40,509 --> 00:01:42,935
Still a very serious crime
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00:01:43,162 --> 00:01:46,021
And it carries a sentence of
up to five years in prison.
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00:01:50,519 --> 00:01:54,354
On the night in question,
jon was having drinks
at his friend's house.
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00:01:54,448 --> 00:01:56,840
They were joined
by two neighbors over there.
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00:01:56,859 --> 00:01:58,692
They were having a good time.
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00:01:58,844 --> 00:02:02,012
As the evening wore on,
the two neighbors
decided to leave,
29
00:02:02,105 --> 00:02:04,456
Leaving only jon
and the alleged victim.
30
00:02:04,608 --> 00:02:07,960
And now, by this time,
both men had been drinking
for several hours,
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00:02:08,187 --> 00:02:10,462
And they both admit they
were intoxicated.
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00:02:10,614 --> 00:02:13,799
What happens next
is what everything hinges on.
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00:02:15,527 --> 00:02:17,861
According to jon,
they got into an argument
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00:02:17,954 --> 00:02:21,306
About how the victim
treats his wife.
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00:02:23,144 --> 00:02:26,294
Jon says the alleged victim,
went into the kitchen,
36
00:02:26,313 --> 00:02:29,148
Came back at him, lunged
at jon with a butcher knife,
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00:02:30,151 --> 00:02:32,234
And jon tried to defend himself.
38
00:02:32,987 --> 00:02:34,820
In defending himself,
39
00:02:34,971 --> 00:02:38,473
Jon pulls out his own knife
and, in the struggle,
40
00:02:38,567 --> 00:02:42,661
Accidentally cuts the throat
of tim, the alleged victim.
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00:02:44,981 --> 00:02:47,057
Tim thankfully survived,
but he was left
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00:02:47,150 --> 00:02:50,169
With a significant wound
on his neck.
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00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:55,749
The prosecution is going
to say that this was
a violent attack by jon.
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00:02:55,901 --> 00:02:59,569
I passionately believe
jon deneef is innocent
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00:02:59,663 --> 00:03:01,597
And that he was only
defending himself.
46
00:03:05,019 --> 00:03:09,021
The problem here is that
there are no witnesses.
There's only these two men.
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00:03:09,172 --> 00:03:11,023
It's one man's word
against another.
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00:03:21,593 --> 00:03:23,093
Jon: Oh.
49
00:03:23,111 --> 00:03:25,704
You're gonna have to help,
roll it up there. Come on.
50
00:03:35,865 --> 00:03:37,549
-Kathy: It worked!
-Jon: It worked!
51
00:03:37,776 --> 00:03:39,885
-Kathy: Look at that
-jon: There you go.
52
00:03:40,112 --> 00:03:42,846
These are my grandchildren.
Jacob and brooklyn.
53
00:03:50,547 --> 00:03:53,306
Me and kathy try to help out
when we can and try to
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00:03:53,459 --> 00:03:55,359
Have them every other
weekend, if possible.
55
00:04:02,484 --> 00:04:05,410
(children giggling)
56
00:04:05,637 --> 00:04:07,320
Jon: So how many pies
are you going to eat?
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00:04:07,414 --> 00:04:08,972
Jacob: A million.
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00:04:08,991 --> 00:04:12,209
A million? A million?
You can't eat a million pies.
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00:04:13,996 --> 00:04:15,645
He really loves these kids,
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00:04:15,739 --> 00:04:18,315
He gets a little
emotional sometimes
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00:04:18,408 --> 00:04:20,092
And he worries
about them so much.
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00:04:20,319 --> 00:04:23,929
(chattering)
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00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,507
Jon: If I had to
do time in prison,
it would be extremely tough.
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00:04:27,659 --> 00:04:31,270
I'd be missing out on
an opportunity to see
them grandkids grow up.
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00:04:31,421 --> 00:04:34,422
And by the time I will get out,
they will be different people.
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00:04:34,441 --> 00:04:38,092
You know, that's a hard thing
to swallow,
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00:04:38,186 --> 00:04:41,095
To watch your only grandchildren
grow up in pictures, you know.
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00:04:41,189 --> 00:04:44,283
One, two, three.
There are three.
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00:04:44,434 --> 00:04:47,844
And then not be there for them,
and find out that they've got
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00:04:47,863 --> 00:04:52,182
A problem or a need and not be
able to do anything about it.
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00:04:52,275 --> 00:04:55,035
It would be devastating for me
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00:04:55,129 --> 00:04:58,297
To be someplace where I wasn't
able to help them.
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00:04:58,448 --> 00:05:01,300
To be charged with something
that you're not guilty of.
74
00:05:01,527 --> 00:05:05,028
It's tough, there's times I want
to just give up.
75
00:05:05,047 --> 00:05:07,806
It's like having cancer and the
doctors know whether you're
76
00:05:08,033 --> 00:05:09,725
Going to die or not,
but nobody to tell you.
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00:05:11,645 --> 00:05:13,061
And it hurts.
78
00:05:28,495 --> 00:05:32,238
Jon and the alleged victim have
very different versions about
what happened that night.
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00:05:32,333 --> 00:05:35,559
The alleged victim says that
jon attacked him with a knife.
80
00:05:35,577 --> 00:05:38,895
Jon says that the
alleged victim
attacked him with a knife.
81
00:05:38,988 --> 00:05:40,630
Jon is claiming self-defense.
82
00:05:44,327 --> 00:05:46,403
Jon and his wife are coming in
this afternoon because...
83
00:05:46,496 --> 00:05:50,349
I want to hear from jon,
what happened that night?
84
00:05:52,686 --> 00:05:55,762
-Mrs. Deneef,
please have a seat.
-Hi.
85
00:05:55,914 --> 00:05:58,081
-Okay.
-Good morning.
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00:05:58,174 --> 00:06:02,361
I have your charges here,
and, um...
87
00:06:04,865 --> 00:06:07,591
They're not real good.
88
00:06:07,684 --> 00:06:10,594
You have an aggravated battery,
which is a class three felony
89
00:06:10,687 --> 00:06:14,188
That's two to five years
in prison, in illinois.
90
00:06:14,282 --> 00:06:17,601
And you also have
a reckless conduct,
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00:06:17,619 --> 00:06:22,881
Which is a class a misdemeanor,
which is up to 364 days
in county jail.
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00:06:23,108 --> 00:06:25,108
And you also have another
aggravated assault,
93
00:06:25,127 --> 00:06:27,552
Which is also in
a class a misdemeanor,
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00:06:27,779 --> 00:06:33,058
Which is up to 364 days
in the county hotel.
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00:06:33,209 --> 00:06:36,561
Can you give me an idea, jon,
of what happened?
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00:06:36,713 --> 00:06:40,565
I was out working on the barn
and so I decided to go across
the street to the neighbor's,
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00:06:40,717 --> 00:06:44,461
Which I've done countless times
and have some drinks with him.
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00:06:44,554 --> 00:06:46,571
-This is tim force?
-Yes, tim force.
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00:06:48,133 --> 00:06:50,575
We were drinking beer
with the neighbors.
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00:06:50,802 --> 00:06:54,137
The neighbors left.
Mike and judy. They left.
101
00:06:54,156 --> 00:06:56,306
Me and tim
were at the kitchen table.
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00:06:56,399 --> 00:07:02,236
We were discussing
his potential divorce he was
getting ready to go through.
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00:07:02,330 --> 00:07:07,167
He started pretty much
slamming his wife and saying
it was all her fault,
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00:07:07,261 --> 00:07:09,819
You know, and making
accusations about her...
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00:07:09,838 --> 00:07:11,838
And tim's getting angry
106
00:07:11,990 --> 00:07:14,599
And I said, "tim, I hate to be
the one to tell you this,"
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00:07:14,826 --> 00:07:17,084
I said. "but I told her she
needed to move out."
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00:07:17,179 --> 00:07:19,679
And that's when he jumped up
in my face, pointing his finger
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And said, (bleep) you, jon,
you've been (bleep) my wife".
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Then he goes into the kitchen.
I thought he was going
to get another drink,
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00:07:27,448 --> 00:07:29,856
And when he comes out of the
kitchen he comes straight at me,
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00:07:30,008 --> 00:07:31,675
And when I look up, he's got
a knife in his hand
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00:07:31,768 --> 00:07:33,618
And he just jabbed it like that.
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When he did,
I knocked it out of the way
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00:07:35,697 --> 00:07:39,440
And jumped up out of my chair
and then backed away from him.
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00:07:39,460 --> 00:07:42,109
I pulled my pocket-knife out
as I was getting away.
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00:07:42,129 --> 00:07:45,630
And when he jabbed at me again,
I went to knock him away
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00:07:45,857 --> 00:07:49,384
And I had my knife in my hand
and I believe I hit him in the
neck with my knife.
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00:07:51,213 --> 00:07:53,972
He grabbed his neck, turned
and went to the bathroom.
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00:07:54,123 --> 00:07:56,700
He wasn't in there but a second
and out the back door.
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00:07:56,793 --> 00:07:59,794
And then I called my wife
and told my wife that tim
and attacked me,
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00:07:59,888 --> 00:08:02,147
That I had cut him. It was bad.
123
00:08:03,650 --> 00:08:05,967
I called for help immediately,
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00:08:05,986 --> 00:08:08,570
And the next thing I know
I'm locked up in a squad car.
125
00:08:10,732 --> 00:08:13,575
Nathan: Before he went in
the kitchen and came
back with the knife,
126
00:08:15,570 --> 00:08:19,915
He made a statement to you.
About having sex with his wife.
127
00:08:20,316 --> 00:08:22,167
Yes.
128
00:08:22,394 --> 00:08:24,002
-Were you?
-No, absolutely. Not.
129
00:08:26,581 --> 00:08:31,510
Well, in illinois, we do not
have a 'stand your ground law'.
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00:08:31,737 --> 00:08:34,754
You have a duty to retreat.
If you can.
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00:08:34,906 --> 00:08:38,666
You can, if threatened
with deadly force,
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00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:43,188
Meet that deadly force
proportionate
to the imminent threat.
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00:08:43,415 --> 00:08:46,249
When tim came at you with
the knife, did you feel
134
00:08:46,342 --> 00:08:48,768
-Your life was threatened?
-Absolutely.
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00:08:48,862 --> 00:08:51,271
Absolutely. I...
136
00:08:51,423 --> 00:08:54,866
The way he jabbed that knife
at me and the look on his face,
137
00:08:55,093 --> 00:08:59,429
-He looked like he meant
to hurt me bad.
-Okay.
138
00:08:59,447 --> 00:09:02,874
This... This is clearly
a self-defense case.
139
00:09:03,101 --> 00:09:07,379
People who commit heinous crimes
with intent to commit
that heinous crime,
140
00:09:07,530 --> 00:09:10,290
Such as attempted murder
or battery, they don't stay,
141
00:09:10,442 --> 00:09:12,199
They don't call 911.
142
00:09:12,294 --> 00:09:13,868
You, on the other hand, did.
143
00:09:13,962 --> 00:09:16,388
We believe that you have a very
strong case of self-defense
144
00:09:16,615 --> 00:09:19,707
And we're going to do everything
that we can to see that,
that's put before a jury.
145
00:09:19,801 --> 00:09:20,875
All right? Yup.
146
00:09:20,969 --> 00:09:22,227
-All right.
-I appreciate it.
147
00:09:23,730 --> 00:09:24,896
You too.
148
00:09:33,222 --> 00:09:34,464
Winston: Usually,
in a criminal case,
149
00:09:34,482 --> 00:09:37,300
The burden
is on the prosecution.
150
00:09:37,319 --> 00:09:41,821
In a self-defense case,
he burden shifts
and it's on the defendant.
151
00:09:41,973 --> 00:09:43,990
Now we're going to have
to show self-defense.
152
00:09:44,084 --> 00:09:47,310
That jon was under attack,
that he feared for his life
153
00:09:47,403 --> 00:09:48,878
And that he
acted proportionately.
154
00:09:50,999 --> 00:09:53,717
This case is going to be decided
by who they believe most.
155
00:09:55,003 --> 00:09:56,928
One man's word against another.
156
00:10:03,328 --> 00:10:08,732
My neighbor lives right over
here in this grey house
with a blue roof.
157
00:10:11,670 --> 00:10:13,236
And that's where this
incident happened.
158
00:10:17,692 --> 00:10:19,451
I'd say I knew tim for 10 years
159
00:10:19,678 --> 00:10:22,846
And considered one
of my best friends.
160
00:10:22,939 --> 00:10:26,699
I trusted him.
I trusted that man.
161
00:10:26,852 --> 00:10:30,520
I can tell he's watching
because as soon I
walk outside the door,
162
00:10:30,538 --> 00:10:35,800
He comes outside to make sure
that I know that he's watching.
163
00:10:35,952 --> 00:10:38,219
It scares my wife, I think,
worse and it scares me.
164
00:10:40,031 --> 00:10:42,365
So, needless to say, it's...
165
00:10:42,458 --> 00:10:44,267
It's been irritating
and stressful.
166
00:10:46,813 --> 00:10:49,296
Not to be able to live
in your own home...
167
00:10:49,316 --> 00:10:54,227
Living across the street
from somebody
that's telling lies about you.
168
00:10:54,321 --> 00:10:58,214
It's heartbreaking,
and there's no way to fix it.
169
00:10:58,233 --> 00:11:00,158
There's no going back
to that night.
170
00:11:07,668 --> 00:11:12,228
Winston: Nathan, let's take
a look at these photos
171
00:11:12,247 --> 00:11:16,007
I got from
the washington county
sheriff's office.
172
00:11:16,159 --> 00:11:19,585
-Winston: They're quite gory.
-Nathan: Man,
that's a lot of blood.
173
00:11:19,738 --> 00:11:22,163
Winston: Well,
it's a neck wound.
174
00:11:22,257 --> 00:11:27,668
And you know, nathan,
I can't even imagine
just a smidge deeper.
175
00:11:27,762 --> 00:11:32,582
And tim force could be dead.
And jon, looking
at murder charges.
176
00:11:32,675 --> 00:11:34,842
-Nathan: This would be
a whole different case.
-Whole different case.
177
00:11:34,861 --> 00:11:39,939
When this goes to trial,
the prosecution is going
to present the story.
178
00:11:40,091 --> 00:11:43,443
You have a guy in his home,
invited his neighbors over.
179
00:11:43,537 --> 00:11:47,021
And at the end of the night,
he's bled all over the place.
180
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:48,948
He's been slashed in the throat.
181
00:11:49,042 --> 00:11:52,544
Their initial reaction is going
to be, jon attacked tim,
182
00:11:52,771 --> 00:11:55,196
And that's going to be a high
hill to climb.
183
00:11:55,290 --> 00:11:58,124
-Winston: We've got
jon's knife.
-Nathan: Mmm-hmm.
184
00:11:58,276 --> 00:12:03,279
Where's 's the picture
of tim's knife when he came
out of the kitchen at jon?
185
00:12:03,298 --> 00:12:06,391
Winston: Therein lies the rub.
I haven't found that.
186
00:12:09,229 --> 00:12:12,564
The crime scene investigator
focused on everything,
187
00:12:12,715 --> 00:12:15,291
Guns, food in the freezer.
188
00:12:15,384 --> 00:12:17,218
Nathan: He doesn't
inventory any knife.
189
00:12:17,237 --> 00:12:19,645
I think by the time
he gets on the scene,
190
00:12:19,740 --> 00:12:23,299
The local sheriff's office
has quote, "figured it out".
191
00:12:23,392 --> 00:12:24,984
Winston: I believe
the knife is there.
192
00:12:25,136 --> 00:12:28,229
But due to poor police work,
193
00:12:28,248 --> 00:12:31,491
That knife will not be found.
194
00:12:31,585 --> 00:12:33,734
Nathan: It's a problem if we
don't have a knife and our...
195
00:12:33,828 --> 00:12:35,253
Winston: Big hurdle to overcome
196
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,905
...And our guy's being attacked
with it.
-That's right.
197
00:12:37,924 --> 00:12:40,717
I mean, if this is self-defense,
what are we defending
ourself against?
198
00:12:57,018 --> 00:12:58,943
I've got a case,
I need your help with.
199
00:12:59,095 --> 00:13:00,945
-Okay.
-It's an aggravated battery.
200
00:13:01,097 --> 00:13:05,432
No one was there at the time
of the alleged incident,
201
00:13:05,452 --> 00:13:09,362
Except the alleged victim
and the defendant.
202
00:13:09,514 --> 00:13:14,367
My client allegedly used a knife
to cut a guy.
203
00:13:14,519 --> 00:13:19,464
According to my client,
force came at him with a knife,
204
00:13:19,615 --> 00:13:22,801
And my client was able
to brush it off and back up.
205
00:13:23,028 --> 00:13:24,785
And in the meantime,
pulled out his own knife,
206
00:13:24,805 --> 00:13:26,453
Force came at him again,
207
00:13:26,473 --> 00:13:29,474
Jon knocks tim force's
hand out of the way
208
00:13:29,625 --> 00:13:32,977
And in doing so,
scrapes his neck.
209
00:13:33,204 --> 00:13:37,890
Jon deneef has never wavered
from day one...
210
00:13:37,984 --> 00:13:40,376
This is all self-defense
211
00:13:40,469 --> 00:13:44,047
So we've got a lot of people
we need to interview
and get statements from.
212
00:13:44,140 --> 00:13:45,990
So, that's going to be
very important,
213
00:13:46,217 --> 00:13:49,476
Especially if you've kept
relevant information,
especially that night.
214
00:13:49,571 --> 00:13:51,404
Timeline issues
and stuff like that.
215
00:13:51,556 --> 00:13:54,499
Excellent, I need
an experienced investigator
216
00:13:54,650 --> 00:13:56,726
And you're the guy I need.
217
00:13:56,819 --> 00:13:59,295
-Okay,
sounds good, let's do it.
-All right.
218
00:14:01,824 --> 00:14:04,992
My objective for winston
is to find "the good,
the bad and the ugly",
219
00:14:05,086 --> 00:14:08,905
So he doesn't have any surprises
when he goes to trial.
220
00:14:08,923 --> 00:14:10,590
So, we're going to do
our own investigation.
221
00:14:10,684 --> 00:14:13,242
We're going to turn over every
stone there is out there.
222
00:14:13,261 --> 00:14:15,436
We're going to talk to anybody
and everybody.
223
00:14:36,117 --> 00:14:38,101
Jon: I spend a lot of time
out here in the barn.
224
00:14:38,194 --> 00:14:42,380
It helps give me
something else to focus on.
225
00:14:42,531 --> 00:14:47,110
This situation has
tainted this place
for me and my wife both.
226
00:14:47,203 --> 00:14:50,279
We loved it here.
Put our heart and souls in it.
227
00:14:50,298 --> 00:14:52,181
I can't take it no more.
228
00:14:54,135 --> 00:14:56,895
You get accused of something,
229
00:14:57,122 --> 00:15:00,123
And you are guilty
until proven innocent.
230
00:15:00,216 --> 00:15:02,901
And that's exactly what this is.
231
00:15:03,052 --> 00:15:07,554
In some of the people's eyes
around here, I'm guilty.
232
00:15:07,649 --> 00:15:09,799
There are people
in this community,
233
00:15:09,817 --> 00:15:12,660
That all they heard was I was
accused of these crimes,
234
00:15:13,988 --> 00:15:16,472
And that ain't ever
going to go away.
235
00:15:16,491 --> 00:15:18,416
And the thing that kills me
the most about it...
236
00:15:18,643 --> 00:15:23,663
I've spent almost $70,000
and two years of agony,
237
00:15:23,757 --> 00:15:25,739
Lost a good job,
238
00:15:25,833 --> 00:15:27,741
Just to defend myself.
239
00:15:27,835 --> 00:15:30,094
And it's his word against mine.
240
00:15:32,581 --> 00:15:34,724
I wouldn't wish this
on my worst enemy.
241
00:15:44,018 --> 00:15:51,007
Nathen, come in
I want to show you
this interview of jon deneef.
242
00:15:51,025 --> 00:15:52,766
Nathan: And he's been
in jail all night now?
243
00:15:52,786 --> 00:15:54,118
He's been in jail
all night, yeah.
244
00:16:17,293 --> 00:16:19,885
Look at that hand motion
he's making.
245
00:16:20,038 --> 00:16:23,055
-When he's telling the cop
what happened, he's reliving it.
-He sure is.
246
00:16:23,208 --> 00:16:26,818
"I brushed him away,"
but he's consistent with what
happened the night before.
247
00:16:47,081 --> 00:16:49,823
You know, he talks about,
and the deputy
asked him again...
248
00:16:49,843 --> 00:16:54,070
"did you stab him or slash him?"
and he gives a stab motion.
249
00:16:54,088 --> 00:16:55,921
He says he stabbed him
in the right shoulder.
250
00:16:56,016 --> 00:16:58,665
We know there's no
right shoulder wound,
at this stage.
251
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:00,243
It was only a neck wound.
252
00:17:00,261 --> 00:17:02,836
If there was no injury to
tim's right shoulder,
253
00:17:02,856 --> 00:17:06,173
Why should anybody
believe jon's testimony
254
00:17:06,192 --> 00:17:08,317
That there was a knife
in tim's hand, coming at him?
255
00:17:31,367 --> 00:17:34,944
In the police interview, jon
said he stabbed his neighbor.
256
00:17:35,037 --> 00:17:37,722
The prosecution is
going to say that
this was an intentional act.
257
00:17:37,949 --> 00:17:40,058
And looking at the wound,
jon is going to have to
258
00:17:40,209 --> 00:17:43,227
Explain to me how he nicked him
instead of stabbing him.
259
00:17:45,290 --> 00:17:47,881
So, jon is coming in to
tell us exactly what happened
260
00:17:47,901 --> 00:17:52,295
So that we can get his story
absolutely straight.
261
00:17:52,388 --> 00:17:54,072
Winston: I called you in
and we just want to talk
a little bit more
262
00:17:54,299 --> 00:17:56,574
About what happened that
other night, okay?
263
00:17:56,725 --> 00:17:59,652
So, say this table is
where you were.
264
00:17:59,804 --> 00:18:01,746
I know it's a desk.
If you were sitting...
265
00:18:01,897 --> 00:18:04,657
Jon: I were sitting here,
my chair would
have been like this
266
00:18:04,809 --> 00:18:07,919
Because I had my beer
and tim was on
the other side of the table.
267
00:18:08,070 --> 00:18:10,237
And he got up and went
into the...
268
00:18:10,256 --> 00:18:13,240
Well, we were arguing,
and he turned around
and he went into the kitchen.
269
00:18:13,259 --> 00:18:14,926
Winston: And then what happened?
270
00:18:15,077 --> 00:18:17,411
He comes right out
in front of me and stands
where nathan's at
271
00:18:17,505 --> 00:18:19,430
And he just jabs a knife at me.
272
00:18:19,657 --> 00:18:21,507
Nathan: Which hand was his
knife in?
273
00:18:21,659 --> 00:18:23,417
Jon: I believe it was
in his right hand.
274
00:18:23,511 --> 00:18:25,511
So, he comes
out of the kitchen
and he's coming at you
275
00:18:25,663 --> 00:18:27,105
-With the kitchen knife?
-Yes.
276
00:18:27,256 --> 00:18:29,181
-And he jabs it at you.
-And I went like this.
277
00:18:29,275 --> 00:18:31,334
Nathan: Okay.
Where was the knife pointed at?
278
00:18:31,427 --> 00:18:32,777
Jon: Just like your hand is.
279
00:18:33,004 --> 00:18:35,262
-And what did you do?
-I went like this.
280
00:18:35,356 --> 00:18:37,840
-Okay? And what did he do?
-Winston: Okay, and then what?
281
00:18:37,859 --> 00:18:40,676
He just stood right there
when I knocked like this
282
00:18:40,695 --> 00:18:42,286
And started following me.
283
00:18:42,513 --> 00:18:44,622
-Okay?
-And I grabbed
my knife, just like this,
284
00:18:44,773 --> 00:18:46,198
Pulled my knife out...
285
00:18:46,292 --> 00:18:47,700
-Did he still have
his knife out?
-Yes, he did.
286
00:18:47,794 --> 00:18:49,352
And he kept coming at me
287
00:18:49,370 --> 00:18:51,462
And I said, "knock it off, tim!
What are you doing?"
288
00:18:51,614 --> 00:18:52,855
He kept coming at me,
289
00:18:52,948 --> 00:18:54,874
And then he jabbed again,
and when he did,
290
00:18:55,026 --> 00:18:57,284
-I went like this to knock him
out of the way.
-Nathan: Mm-hmm.
291
00:18:57,303 --> 00:19:00,546
He grabs for his neck,
turns and goes to the bathroom.
292
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:04,367
When you
watch the interview...
You use this motion.
293
00:19:04,385 --> 00:19:05,643
Winston: Stabbing motion...
294
00:19:05,870 --> 00:19:08,554
And you told deputy campbell
that you thought
295
00:19:08,706 --> 00:19:12,224
That you had stabbed him
in the right shoulder.
296
00:19:12,377 --> 00:19:14,635
All I knew
is I went to block tim
297
00:19:14,729 --> 00:19:18,564
And I didn't know if
it was a downward thrust
a poking thrust.
298
00:19:18,658 --> 00:19:20,324
I did not know.
299
00:19:20,476 --> 00:19:24,236
He jabbed. I blocked.
And I hit him and I felt
my hand hit him.
300
00:19:24,389 --> 00:19:27,556
But I don't know which position
my hand was in.
301
00:19:27,650 --> 00:19:29,241
I wasn't trying to attack him.
302
00:19:29,335 --> 00:19:32,503
I had a knife in my hand
and tried to block him.
303
00:19:32,730 --> 00:19:34,672
The forensic evidence
is consistent with
304
00:19:35,583 --> 00:19:37,658
What you're telling us.
305
00:19:37,752 --> 00:19:39,735
So that's important.
306
00:19:39,828 --> 00:19:42,346
Winston: It's very important
because you're going
to have to do this
307
00:19:42,498 --> 00:19:46,592
Again and maybe even again
and again at trial.
308
00:19:46,744 --> 00:19:49,578
You might have to do it
over and over and over.
309
00:19:49,672 --> 00:19:52,690
Nathan: I don't...
I don't think that anything
that we've heard...
310
00:19:52,841 --> 00:19:55,768
-Winston: Contradicts?
-Nathan: ...Contradicts
a self-defense, defense.
311
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:57,770
Winston: Not a bit.
312
00:19:57,864 --> 00:19:59,530
-Good to
see you again, jon.
-Thank you. You too.
313
00:20:02,202 --> 00:20:04,777
Nathan: When
the detective had him
314
00:20:04,929 --> 00:20:06,353
Explaining things,
the following morning,
315
00:20:06,372 --> 00:20:08,372
He just had him
sitting in that chair.
316
00:20:08,524 --> 00:20:11,876
He was randomly
flailing his arms.
317
00:20:12,103 --> 00:20:14,453
But today I had him
actually demonstrate,
318
00:20:14,547 --> 00:20:17,006
As opposed to merely explain
what had happened.
319
00:20:19,110 --> 00:20:20,960
The ultimate question
for the judge is,
320
00:20:21,112 --> 00:20:23,612
"who was the initial aggressor?"
321
00:20:23,706 --> 00:20:26,465
Tim is going to say, jon was.
322
00:20:26,617 --> 00:20:29,209
Jon is going to say, tim was.
323
00:20:29,229 --> 00:20:33,231
That question,
and the answer to it,
is going to decide this case.
324
00:20:42,075 --> 00:20:43,532
-Jon: Got something for lunch?
-Kathy: Yes.
325
00:20:45,394 --> 00:20:48,079
-You hungry?
You want beans?
-Sounds good.
326
00:20:48,230 --> 00:20:50,581
Okay, I'm having pea soup.
327
00:20:56,256 --> 00:20:59,257
-You want cornbread?
-A little piece. Not much.
328
00:20:59,484 --> 00:21:00,383
Kathy: Okay
329
00:21:04,505 --> 00:21:05,429
Jon: Thank you.
330
00:21:12,438 --> 00:21:15,164
I don't like the idea of me
going to prison,
331
00:21:15,182 --> 00:21:17,608
But, you know, we've got
to prepare for the worst.
332
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,338
If she know where they
would put me in jail...
333
00:21:22,356 --> 00:21:25,858
She gonna live close to me
so she can see me
if they let her see me.
334
00:21:26,010 --> 00:21:28,010
Kathy: We depend
on each other,
335
00:21:28,029 --> 00:21:31,956
So it's hard to imagine
not having that person
that you depend on around.
336
00:21:33,776 --> 00:21:36,085
This case is tough.
337
00:21:40,633 --> 00:21:43,042
Because of what I'm going
through, she's going through
338
00:21:43,194 --> 00:21:45,636
Everything I'm going through,
and she didn't do nothing.
339
00:21:45,863 --> 00:21:47,596
-Kathy: He feels like
he let me down.
-Yeah.
340
00:21:48,866 --> 00:21:50,699
You know,
through all of this,
341
00:21:50,718 --> 00:21:53,218
There's no way I can make it
through this without you.
342
00:21:53,371 --> 00:21:55,813
You've been the best, best
supporter I could have ever had.
343
00:21:57,466 --> 00:22:00,318
And I loved you before...
(chuckles)
344
00:22:01,546 --> 00:22:02,987
(sighs)
345
00:22:04,398 --> 00:22:05,656
I didn't think
I could love you more.
346
00:22:28,573 --> 00:22:32,183
Winston: I've obtained
the 911 calls
from the prosecution.
347
00:22:32,334 --> 00:22:33,667
Nathan's coming in
this afternoon,
348
00:22:33,686 --> 00:22:34,852
And we're going
to listen to them.
349
00:22:36,597 --> 00:22:38,171
-Winston: Hey, nathan.
-Hey, winston
350
00:22:38,191 --> 00:22:40,024
I hear that we have
some new evidence.
351
00:23:20,233 --> 00:23:22,124
I think that's it.
352
00:23:22,217 --> 00:23:25,736
He reports to the 911 operator
353
00:23:25,963 --> 00:23:30,891
That tim is alert,
he's conscious.
354
00:23:30,910 --> 00:23:34,153
The neighbor
doesn't have much detail.
355
00:23:34,247 --> 00:23:36,730
All he can say is,
"I wasn't there, I don't know."
356
00:23:36,749 --> 00:23:38,874
There's no surprise in there
that hurts us.
357
00:23:44,331 --> 00:23:46,757
Okay, we've heard
the neighbor's 911.
358
00:23:47,835 --> 00:23:52,096
We have
the 911 from jon...
359
00:23:52,247 --> 00:23:55,766
-Nathan: Good.
-This is very exciting
to hear...
360
00:23:55,918 --> 00:23:58,177
I think this can really
support our case
361
00:23:58,271 --> 00:24:00,679
As far as his mindset.
362
00:24:00,773 --> 00:24:03,774
-Nothing to cover up.
Calling for help.
-Right.
363
00:24:04,001 --> 00:24:06,927
I agree. You know,
this can only be good.
364
00:24:07,021 --> 00:24:08,112
-Let's hear it.
-Okay.
365
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,284
This is not good
for his defense.
366
00:24:31,304 --> 00:24:34,788
The initial
"I slit my neighbor's throat".
367
00:24:34,882 --> 00:24:37,382
You know, that's a problem
for us we're going to have to
368
00:24:37,477 --> 00:24:42,980
Be able to get people past
the initial shock of...
369
00:24:43,131 --> 00:24:44,482
-The admission.
-Of the admission.
370
00:25:02,150 --> 00:25:03,667
We're going to play
this 911 call,
-it's like he's confessing
it's very bad.
-It's bad.
371
00:25:03,819 --> 00:25:06,245
Of course, in trial.
372
00:25:06,397 --> 00:25:10,749
Um, it doesn't sound good.
"I slit my neighbor's throat."
373
00:25:10,843 --> 00:25:14,903
Uh, but at the same time,
it's like he's confessing.
374
00:25:14,997 --> 00:25:17,848
Guilty people just don't
up and confess.
375
00:25:18,075 --> 00:25:20,834
They run, they lie,
and they hide.
376
00:25:20,853 --> 00:25:23,670
That didn't happen here,
and we need to play that up.
377
00:25:23,689 --> 00:25:24,647
Right
378
00:25:28,102 --> 00:25:31,511
Kevin: So I'm enroute right now
to go interview mike scoles
379
00:25:31,531 --> 00:25:33,605
And judy vickers.
380
00:25:33,758 --> 00:25:36,200
They're next door neighbors
of tim force.
381
00:25:49,123 --> 00:25:51,197
-Kevin: Hi. Judy?
-Yeah.
382
00:25:51,217 --> 00:25:55,294
Judy, my name is kevin mclain.
I'm a legal investigator.
383
00:25:55,446 --> 00:25:58,389
I'm working for jon deneef
and his attorneys.
384
00:25:58,540 --> 00:26:01,392
I was wondering if I might
be able to have permission
to speak with you.
385
00:26:01,619 --> 00:26:03,561
-I don't see any reason why not?
-Okay.
386
00:26:03,788 --> 00:26:05,896
-And you happen
to be mike?
-Yep, I'm mike.
387
00:26:06,123 --> 00:26:08,882
Hey, mike. Very nice
to meet you also, sir.
388
00:26:08,976 --> 00:26:12,294
Just walk me through that night,
before the incident happened.
389
00:26:12,387 --> 00:26:16,574
We went over there,
and I guess...
About an hour, hour and half...
390
00:26:16,725 --> 00:26:18,801
-Thought that was
a good time for us to leave.
-Right.
391
00:26:18,819 --> 00:26:22,395
We came back,
and it's about dark that time,
392
00:26:22,489 --> 00:26:26,141
-And that's when I heard
the banging on the door.
-Mm-hm.
393
00:26:26,234 --> 00:26:29,828
Opened the door and tim came in,
and he had a towel
around his neck,
394
00:26:29,980 --> 00:26:32,497
You know, and said,
jon slit his throat open,
395
00:26:32,650 --> 00:26:34,592
You know, and I said, "huh?"
396
00:26:34,819 --> 00:26:36,652
Kevin: Did tim say anything
about what happened
when he came over here?
397
00:26:36,670 --> 00:26:40,322
The only thing I could get was
jon left, came back in
398
00:26:40,341 --> 00:26:42,841
And he was over by the fire,
399
00:26:42,993 --> 00:26:46,511
And then he turned around
and that's when jon
sliced his throat.
400
00:26:46,606 --> 00:26:49,681
Did he ever say
why jon would cut his throat?
401
00:26:49,775 --> 00:26:52,776
You know what?
I could not see
any reason for it,
402
00:26:52,928 --> 00:26:56,004
-You know, I mean...
We've been friends for years.
-Right.
403
00:26:56,098 --> 00:26:59,599
Jon's a big guy. I mean,
he could've broke timmy,
you know, by hand.
404
00:26:59,693 --> 00:27:02,361
I mean, there was no one
reason to pull a knife out
on him, you know?
405
00:27:02,513 --> 00:27:04,863
And, you know,
I could see if tim came at him
406
00:27:05,015 --> 00:27:06,773
And he had to protect himself
or something.
407
00:27:06,792 --> 00:27:09,534
Hopefully you still may have it.
You've got your different
408
00:27:09,629 --> 00:27:12,020
Cameras up there, the
surveillance cameras.
409
00:27:12,114 --> 00:27:14,298
-Tim: Yeah.
-I was wanting to see maybe
if you might possibly have
410
00:27:14,525 --> 00:27:16,191
-Something that I could acquire?
-Yeah. No problem.
411
00:27:16,210 --> 00:27:18,118
Okay, great.
412
00:27:18,212 --> 00:27:18,877
Mike: As far as
the cameras on the house,
they picked up everything
413
00:27:18,971 --> 00:27:20,137
That happened that night
414
00:27:20,364 --> 00:27:22,139
Kevin: Did the police ever
ask for that?
415
00:27:22,366 --> 00:27:25,033
No, not even once.
I was surprised
416
00:27:25,052 --> 00:27:26,292
-Thanks again, mike.
-No problem, man. (chuckles)
417
00:27:26,312 --> 00:27:27,811
Really appreciate it.
Thank you, sir
418
00:27:32,985 --> 00:27:37,488
These interviews
are so important because...
419
00:27:37,639 --> 00:27:42,493
We've just found new evidence
that's never been collected,
420
00:27:42,644 --> 00:27:46,238
So I'm really excited to
find out what all is on that
421
00:27:46,332 --> 00:27:48,666
Surveillance system,
to tell the rest of the story.
422
00:28:01,572 --> 00:28:03,138
Kathy: This has been
my happy place for so long.
423
00:28:04,258 --> 00:28:06,684
With everything that's happened,
424
00:28:06,911 --> 00:28:09,186
This neighborhood just doesn't
feel safe anymore.
425
00:28:12,249 --> 00:28:16,176
This has affected me
because I pulled back away
from my community
426
00:28:16,195 --> 00:28:21,181
Because I felt like I was--
we were branded as criminals.
427
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,776
You know, jon was branded as
a criminal and I was his wife,
428
00:28:24,929 --> 00:28:29,689
And I just thought,
what must people think.
429
00:28:29,783 --> 00:28:32,501
It's a scary feeling. It makes
you feel like you're not safe.
430
00:29:05,911 --> 00:29:08,153
I've forensically
gone through this entire video
431
00:29:08,247 --> 00:29:10,973
And there's not one time
that jon leaves that house,
432
00:29:10,991 --> 00:29:13,809
There's not one time
that his truck
leaves and goes back
433
00:29:13,827 --> 00:29:15,827
Over to his residence.
Nothing.
434
00:29:15,921 --> 00:29:18,330
So, let me
start playing it here,
and watch this
435
00:29:18,424 --> 00:29:21,166
Because as you can see,
this is tim's house here
436
00:29:21,260 --> 00:29:23,485
You know, he's saying
john left... Left the house ,
437
00:29:23,578 --> 00:29:25,411
Which john would
have to have a vehicle.
438
00:29:25,431 --> 00:29:27,765
You'd have to see lights
coming across to the right.
439
00:29:27,992 --> 00:29:29,841
And what amazes me,
too about this is
440
00:29:29,994 --> 00:29:31,435
Law enforcement never got this.
441
00:29:32,587 --> 00:29:34,772
-Never got it, no.
-Never?
442
00:29:34,923 --> 00:29:39,184
Kevin: So let's go forward here
and you go to see tim
443
00:29:39,336 --> 00:29:42,854
Coming across to your...
Right there, you see?
444
00:29:42,948 --> 00:29:45,449
You're going to be starting to
see lights coming on.
445
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,027
These are
first responders, okay?
911 has now been called,
446
00:29:49,179 --> 00:29:50,954
And now they're starting
to show up at this time.
447
00:29:51,106 --> 00:29:54,366
Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know,
these first responders
448
00:29:54,460 --> 00:29:58,036
Are some people I think
we need to talk to.
449
00:29:58,188 --> 00:29:59,538
-'cause they'll have...
-Oh.
450
00:29:59,632 --> 00:30:01,373
-Yeah, absolutely,
absolutely. Yeah.
-Mm-hm.
451
00:30:01,467 --> 00:30:03,616
Kevin: This whole time
we've watched this,
452
00:30:03,710 --> 00:30:06,028
-We've not seen anybody
else moving around...
-Correct
453
00:30:06,046 --> 00:30:08,380
...Or anything like that,
except for tim.
454
00:30:08,532 --> 00:30:11,533
In tim's interview,
he said jon left the house.
455
00:30:11,626 --> 00:30:15,145
This is conclusive
that jon never left.
456
00:30:23,230 --> 00:30:26,231
I was able to track down
the first person on the scene.
457
00:30:26,383 --> 00:30:29,809
His name's adam haas.
He is a volunteer fireman.
458
00:30:29,829 --> 00:30:34,498
And we're currently on the way
out there right now,
to go interview him.
459
00:30:40,655 --> 00:30:42,172
-Hi. Adam?
-Yes.
460
00:30:42,324 --> 00:30:44,566
Hey, adam. My name
is kevin mcclain,
461
00:30:44,659 --> 00:30:46,009
And I'm a legal investigator.
462
00:30:46,161 --> 00:30:48,403
There's an incident that
happened up the road here
463
00:30:48,496 --> 00:30:50,072
-Involving tim force.
-Yes
464
00:30:50,165 --> 00:30:51,740
-Can you remember that?
-Yeah.
465
00:30:51,758 --> 00:30:52,924
I'd like to have permission,
466
00:30:53,018 --> 00:30:54,926
-Maybe to talk
to you a little bit?
-Yeah.
467
00:30:55,079 --> 00:30:57,187
If you could share with me
what you remember
468
00:30:57,339 --> 00:30:58,580
-About that night...
-Adam: Mmm-hmm.
469
00:30:58,599 --> 00:31:01,007
We got the call. I showed up
470
00:31:01,026 --> 00:31:04,252
And I was the first one there.
471
00:31:04,346 --> 00:31:08,757
Tim was bleeding.
He was cut at the...
From, you know, in this area.
472
00:31:08,775 --> 00:31:12,035
There was a lot of blood.
We held the rags on him
473
00:31:12,187 --> 00:31:14,354
And that's when he
started talking.
474
00:31:14,448 --> 00:31:17,782
Okay, so walk me back through
what he told you had happened.
475
00:31:17,877 --> 00:31:20,711
He told three different stories
from the time it happened,
476
00:31:20,862 --> 00:31:23,939
To the time we were
at the hospital.
477
00:31:23,957 --> 00:31:27,125
So within that hours' time,
he'd given
three different stories?
478
00:31:27,219 --> 00:31:28,368
Yes, correct.
479
00:31:28,387 --> 00:31:30,629
Okay, so let's go
through the first story.
480
00:31:30,723 --> 00:31:33,724
I said, "tim, what happened?"
he said, "jon".
481
00:31:33,951 --> 00:31:35,800
And I said, "what do you
mean, "jon"?"
482
00:31:35,953 --> 00:31:39,471
That's when he was
going on about the--
his wife and jon thing.
483
00:31:39,623 --> 00:31:41,714
He was telling me
he was sleeping with patti,
484
00:31:41,808 --> 00:31:45,460
And he said that then he
left and came back with a knife
485
00:31:45,553 --> 00:31:47,312
And he said that "he cut me".
486
00:31:47,464 --> 00:31:50,632
So tim indicates that
jon and patti had been
487
00:31:50,725 --> 00:31:51,650
-Doing something together?
-Yep.
488
00:31:51,802 --> 00:31:53,652
And the fight because of patti?
489
00:31:53,746 --> 00:31:55,987
-Yes, correct.
-And then you mentioned about
490
00:31:56,081 --> 00:31:57,822
There was a second time
that he makes a statement.
491
00:31:57,917 --> 00:31:59,082
Walk me through that.
492
00:31:59,309 --> 00:32:02,827
This was on the way
to he hospital.
493
00:32:02,922 --> 00:32:05,313
He didn't directly tell me this.
I was driving,
494
00:32:05,332 --> 00:32:07,073
That's when I heard him
telling the paramedics
495
00:32:07,092 --> 00:32:11,169
Jon was trying to dance with him
and he didn't want to dance.
496
00:32:11,321 --> 00:32:13,096
And that's how it all happened.
497
00:32:13,248 --> 00:32:14,431
Tim didn't want
to dance with jon.
498
00:32:15,659 --> 00:32:17,583
And that was the second story?
499
00:32:17,603 --> 00:32:19,678
-Yes, that was while we were
in the ambulance.
-Okay,
500
00:32:19,830 --> 00:32:21,680
And then there was
a third story?
501
00:32:21,832 --> 00:32:24,942
Yeah, he told
the nurses in the hospital
that jon was
502
00:32:25,093 --> 00:32:27,519
Trying to do homosexual things
with him and he didn't want to.
503
00:32:27,613 --> 00:32:29,337
-Okay, thanks again.
Appreciate it.
-Thank you.
504
00:32:29,431 --> 00:32:30,614
-Have a good evening.
-You too.
505
00:32:34,861 --> 00:32:38,363
Kevin: What was so important
about adam's interview
506
00:32:38,515 --> 00:32:42,350
Was tim gave three
different statements
507
00:32:42,369 --> 00:32:44,444
Within a matter
of an hour's time,
508
00:32:44,463 --> 00:32:46,630
That adam overheard.
509
00:32:46,781 --> 00:32:49,466
Tim force, if he goes to trial,
he's not going
to remember which...
510
00:32:49,617 --> 00:32:51,635
Which story he told
to who, when.
511
00:33:01,814 --> 00:33:04,206
Winston: You know, we're
getting very close to trial.
512
00:33:04,299 --> 00:33:07,818
I've got patti force coming in.
The ex-wife
of the alleged victim,
513
00:33:08,045 --> 00:33:10,487
It's crucial that she
tells me everything
514
00:33:10,638 --> 00:33:15,492
About her husband
and about what she knows
about jon deneef.
515
00:33:25,896 --> 00:33:27,504
Thanks for coming in
this morning, patti.
516
00:33:27,655 --> 00:33:29,322
When did you meet tim?
517
00:33:29,341 --> 00:33:31,800
I met him in 2016.
518
00:33:33,904 --> 00:33:35,920
I think it was
in September or October.
519
00:33:36,015 --> 00:33:39,257
-And then things just kind of
just evolved from there.
-Kind of just happened. Right.
520
00:33:39,409 --> 00:33:43,245
All right. What happened to
your and tim's relationship
521
00:33:43,263 --> 00:33:46,248
After you two got married?
522
00:33:46,266 --> 00:33:50,252
Everything went downhill.
Absolutely everything. Um...
523
00:33:50,270 --> 00:33:54,756
Actually, now when I look back
after this long,
524
00:33:54,849 --> 00:33:58,035
There was so many red flags
that I totally just
didn't see them.
525
00:33:58,262 --> 00:34:02,021
Do you think that tim has
an explosive character?
526
00:34:02,041 --> 00:34:04,616
-Very explosive.
-Just pops like that
527
00:34:04,710 --> 00:34:07,936
Just like that. He would
constantly blame me all the time
528
00:34:07,954 --> 00:34:09,621
-That I was having
an affair with somebody.
-Oh.
529
00:34:09,773 --> 00:34:12,198
And then, all of a sudden,
now it was jon.
530
00:34:12,292 --> 00:34:15,201
-He was fixated on jon?
-Yeah, he decided it was jon.
531
00:34:15,295 --> 00:34:19,372
Why would tim think you
were having an affair with jon?
532
00:34:19,466 --> 00:34:21,224
-I mean, was that true?
-No.
533
00:34:21,451 --> 00:34:23,802
-So you knew jon
maybe a couple of years.
-Right.
534
00:34:23,954 --> 00:34:25,954
Uh. Before this incident...
535
00:34:26,047 --> 00:34:28,456
Tell me, what kind
of neighbor is jon?
536
00:34:28,475 --> 00:34:31,193
Funny and loving and...
537
00:34:32,905 --> 00:34:35,130
Just always caring
about the neighbors,
538
00:34:35,223 --> 00:34:37,816
-That kind of stuff, yeah...
-Very helpful, a good...
A good citizen?
539
00:34:37,910 --> 00:34:41,152
You know, patti, jon's
credibility and character
540
00:34:41,305 --> 00:34:43,471
Are what is at stake at court.
541
00:34:43,565 --> 00:34:46,750
Would you be able
to stand up in court,
542
00:34:46,901 --> 00:34:49,978
And say the things that you've
told me in front of a jury,
543
00:34:50,071 --> 00:34:53,665
Of a judge...
Potentially, tim force?
544
00:34:53,817 --> 00:34:55,926
I don't feel comfortable
doing it, but I will do it
545
00:34:56,077 --> 00:34:59,487
Because I'm not watching him do
anything to these people.
546
00:34:59,506 --> 00:35:03,416
This is just stupid
and ridiculous,
this whole thing is...
547
00:35:03,435 --> 00:35:06,678
He's just an evil person
and he's gonna get away
with a bunch of (bleep)
548
00:35:06,830 --> 00:35:08,421
And that's what
it boils down to.
549
00:35:08,515 --> 00:35:13,001
All right, miss force,
thank you for coming
in this morning.
550
00:35:13,094 --> 00:35:18,690
It's difficult,
but you're so critical
to jon deneef's defense
551
00:35:18,842 --> 00:35:20,408
That's no problem.
Anything I can do to help.
552
00:35:22,012 --> 00:35:23,528
Linda: All right.
Winston: She's critical.
553
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:28,867
Her testimony is damning
to that alleged victim
554
00:35:29,019 --> 00:35:32,963
And very supportive of
jon's self-defense.
555
00:35:34,691 --> 00:35:35,799
It's indispensable.
556
00:36:03,553 --> 00:36:06,997
Today is a day of substance.
557
00:36:07,148 --> 00:36:10,983
This is our final pretrial.
We filed a motion
to rule on witnesses,
558
00:36:11,003 --> 00:36:15,063
And we'll see what the state
and the judge has to say
559
00:36:15,081 --> 00:36:16,965
About the last minute
motions that I filed.
560
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,495
Jon: This morning I woke up and
started thinking about the case.
561
00:36:22,514 --> 00:36:25,164
We've been stressed out
for so long
562
00:36:25,258 --> 00:36:28,092
And every time we get ready
for a hearing of some sort,
563
00:36:28,245 --> 00:36:29,811
I end up worrying and worrying.
564
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:10,060
There's been some pretty strong
movement this morning
from the state.
565
00:37:10,287 --> 00:37:11,803
This case isn't
going to be dismissed.
566
00:37:11,955 --> 00:37:14,397
But they've come a long way.
567
00:37:15,625 --> 00:37:17,625
Jon doesn't know any about this.
568
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:19,402
Kathy: There is
winston, right there.
569
00:37:21,147 --> 00:37:22,239
Winston: Uh, is that jon?
570
00:37:34,811 --> 00:37:36,068
Winston: All right, jon.
571
00:37:36,088 --> 00:37:38,663
Let me tell you
what just happened.
572
00:37:38,815 --> 00:37:42,425
There's been a flurry
of activity this morning
regarding the case.
573
00:37:43,595 --> 00:37:46,337
The state's attorney
has come to me
574
00:37:46,490 --> 00:37:48,098
With a proposal to resolve it.
575
00:37:50,327 --> 00:37:55,513
Basically, jon, 18 months of
what I would call probation.
576
00:37:55,665 --> 00:37:58,500
Keep your nose clean.
Don't break any laws.
577
00:37:58,518 --> 00:38:01,611
After 18 months,
the aggravated battery
is taken off the table.
578
00:38:02,522 --> 00:38:04,522
No felony charge.
579
00:38:04,674 --> 00:38:09,527
There would be an order
entered, convicting you
of reckless conduct,
580
00:38:09,679 --> 00:38:11,579
And that's
a class a misdemeanor.
581
00:38:12,365 --> 00:38:14,015
It is not a felony.
582
00:38:14,034 --> 00:38:15,700
You won't have
a felony on your record.
583
00:38:15,852 --> 00:38:17,276
Jon: So I can go back to work?
584
00:38:17,296 --> 00:38:19,796
You can go back to wherever
you want to go back to,
585
00:38:19,947 --> 00:38:21,631
Whatever job you want.
586
00:38:21,783 --> 00:38:23,875
That's the best outcome
I could probably hope for,
587
00:38:23,969 --> 00:38:26,544
-Short of going to trial
and having a dismissal...
-Mm-hm.
588
00:38:26,638 --> 00:38:28,212
...At this point.
589
00:38:28,307 --> 00:38:30,365
Winston: And you don't know
what would happen in at trial
590
00:38:30,383 --> 00:38:33,701
Cut my losses.
I'm not guilty of these charges,
591
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:35,720
-But it's the best way
to move on.
-There we go.
592
00:38:35,872 --> 00:38:39,390
If we go to trial,
I have no idea what
the judge is going to say.
593
00:38:39,543 --> 00:38:42,043
Now, I don't have
a crystal ball.
594
00:38:42,062 --> 00:38:45,822
We don't know
what's going to happen
595
00:38:45,973 --> 00:38:48,325
-Until that signed
by the judge. We'll see.
-Okay.
596
00:38:53,056 --> 00:38:55,481
Jon: I'll be saying
my prayers tonight.
597
00:38:55,500 --> 00:38:59,169
Something could change.
I hope that that doesn't happen.
598
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,505
It's almost hard to have that
hope that it's finally over.
599
00:39:02,732 --> 00:39:07,344
It's been a long,
long...
(exhales) long road.
600
00:39:09,681 --> 00:39:12,907
I'm glad it's...
It looks like it's over,
601
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,519
But I probably won't feel
that sense of relief
until the judge says so.
602
00:39:35,265 --> 00:39:37,540
Winston: You know,
this is a complicated
603
00:39:37,692 --> 00:39:40,451
Resolution to
a complicated case.
604
00:39:40,604 --> 00:39:44,363
We've worked this case with our
investigator and our witnesses,
605
00:39:44,457 --> 00:39:48,943
And we gathered
enough evidence
to fill in the gap
606
00:39:48,962 --> 00:39:52,947
Of why did this explosion
take place that night
amongst friends?
607
00:39:52,966 --> 00:39:54,298
Winston: Exactly.
608
00:39:54,393 --> 00:39:56,451
But we've still got
to get the judge on board.
609
00:39:56,469 --> 00:39:58,061
You know, nathan,
610
00:39:58,212 --> 00:40:02,899
These types of offers are
never given for violent crimes.
611
00:40:03,126 --> 00:40:06,069
And we all admit,
this was a violent crime.
612
00:40:06,220 --> 00:40:08,571
The photographs,
the amount of blood.
613
00:40:08,723 --> 00:40:12,725
Any judge would have
significant questions
about this.
614
00:40:12,744 --> 00:40:17,822
It's good that we've gotten
the prosecution down
to our position,
615
00:40:17,916 --> 00:40:21,418
But we're still
going to have to be prepared
616
00:40:21,569 --> 00:40:24,587
To convince the judge
this is the appropriate
thing to do.
617
00:40:24,814 --> 00:40:28,258
If the judge rejects
this disposition...
618
00:40:30,003 --> 00:40:32,820
Where does that leave us?
We're back to trial, right?
619
00:40:32,914 --> 00:40:34,556
Winston: We are back to trial.
620
00:40:48,188 --> 00:40:49,946
Jon: I'll take all
my creature comforts.
621
00:40:50,173 --> 00:40:51,448
Kathy: I've got
everything I need.
622
00:41:00,033 --> 00:41:02,125
Jon: Today, the judge
looks at the agreement
623
00:41:02,276 --> 00:41:04,109
And then either approves
or disapproves.
624
00:41:04,129 --> 00:41:05,611
So the judge could look at this,
625
00:41:05,630 --> 00:41:08,022
And decide she doesn't like it
626
00:41:08,041 --> 00:41:10,133
And everything could change.
627
00:41:15,215 --> 00:41:20,125
These kind of negotiated pleas
are reserved for
nonviolent offenses,
628
00:41:20,145 --> 00:41:22,386
And this is a violent offense.
629
00:41:22,539 --> 00:41:24,147
I'm feeling a little nervous.
630
00:41:26,059 --> 00:41:28,985
It's been two years,
and it's all coming down
to this morning.
631
00:41:58,575 --> 00:41:59,682
Okay.
632
00:42:00,835 --> 00:42:02,352
Winston: There it is.
633
00:42:06,173 --> 00:42:09,917
Jon: Appreciate everything.
Appreciate everything.
634
00:42:09,936 --> 00:42:12,529
-Now, don't do this again.
-I ain't. (laughing)
635
00:42:14,774 --> 00:42:17,158
Jon: The judge has signed it.
So now it's all on me again.
636
00:42:18,519 --> 00:42:21,538
I'm relieved.
Still feels numb, really.
637
00:42:21,689 --> 00:42:23,856
I'm happy that it's over
638
00:42:23,950 --> 00:42:26,117
I was worried to death that
I was going to be locked up
639
00:42:26,211 --> 00:42:28,603
And she was going to have
to fend for herself.
640
00:42:28,621 --> 00:42:31,047
At least I know I'm going to
be there by her side now.