(dial tone)
(dispatch speaking)
(jon speaking)
(dispatch speaking)
(jon speaking)
(dispatch speaking)
(jon speaking)
Jon: It hurt me to lose a friend.
I trusted him. I trusted that man.
I called my wife and told my wife that tim had attacked me,
That I had cut him. It was bad.
The thing that kills me the most about it.
I've spent two years of agony, just to defend myself.
And it's his word against mine.
I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.
My name is winston throgmorton.
I'm a criminal defense attorney in marion, illinois.
I represent jon deneef.
And initially, jon was charged with attempted murder.
That, thankfully was dropped.
He's now charged with aggravated battery,
Which is a class three felony.
Still a very serious crime
And it carries a sentence of up to five years in prison.
On the night in question, jon was having drinks at his friend's house.
They were joined by two neighbors over there.
They were having a good time.
As the evening wore on, the two neighbors decided to leave,
Leaving only jon and the alleged victim.
And now, by this time, both men had been drinking for several hours,
And they both admit they were intoxicated.
What happens next is what everything hinges on.
According to jon, they got into an argument
About how the victim treats his wife.
Jon says the alleged victim, went into the kitchen,
Came back at him, lunged at jon with a butcher knife,
And jon tried to defend himself.
In defending himself,
Jon pulls out his own knife and, in the struggle,
Accidentally cuts the throat of tim, the alleged victim.
Tim thankfully survived, but he was left
With a significant wound on his neck.
The prosecution is going to say that this was a violent attack by jon.
I passionately believe jon deneef is innocent
And that he was only defending himself.
The problem here is that there are no witnesses. There's only these two men.
It's one man's word against another.
Jon: Oh.
You're gonna have to help, roll it up there. Come on.
-Kathy: It worked! -Jon: It worked!
-Kathy: Look at that -jon: There you go.
These are my grandchildren. Jacob and brooklyn.
Me and kathy try to help out when we can and try to
Have them every other weekend, if possible.
(children giggling)
Jon: So how many pies are you going to eat?
Jacob: A million.
A million? A million? You can't eat a million pies.
He really loves these kids,
He gets a little emotional sometimes
And he worries about them so much.
(chattering)
Jon: If I had to do time in prison, it would be extremely tough.
I'd be missing out on an opportunity to see them grandkids grow up.
And by the time I will get out, they will be different people.
You know, that's a hard thing to swallow,
To watch your only grandchildren grow up in pictures, you know.
One, two, three. There are three.
And then not be there for them, and find out that they've got
A problem or a need and not be able to do anything about it.
It would be devastating for me
To be someplace where I wasn't able to help them.
To be charged with something that you're not guilty of.
It's tough, there's times I want to just give up.
It's like having cancer and the doctors know whether you're
Going to die or not, but nobody to tell you.
And it hurts.
Jon and the alleged victim have very different versions about what happened that night.
The alleged victim says that jon attacked him with a knife.
Jon says that the alleged victim attacked him with a knife.
Jon is claiming self-defense.
Jon and his wife are coming in this afternoon because...
I want to hear from jon, what happened that night?
-Mrs. Deneef, please have a seat. -Hi.
-Okay. -Good morning.
I have your charges here, and, um...
They're not real good.
You have an aggravated battery, which is a class three felony
That's two to five years in prison, in illinois.
And you also have a reckless conduct,
Which is a class a misdemeanor, which is up to 364 days in county jail.
And you also have another aggravated assault,
Which is also in a class a misdemeanor,
Which is up to 364 days in the county hotel.
Can you give me an idea, jon, of what happened?
I was out working on the barn and so I decided to go across the street to the neighbor's,
Which I've done countless times and have some drinks with him.
-This is tim force? -Yes, tim force.
We were drinking beer with the neighbors.
The neighbors left. Mike and judy. They left.
Me and tim were at the kitchen table.
We were discussing his potential divorce he was getting ready to go through.
He started pretty much slamming his wife and saying it was all her fault,
You know, and making accusations about her...
And tim's getting angry
And I said, "tim, I hate to be the one to tell you this,"
I said. "but I told her she needed to move out."
And that's when he jumped up in my face, pointing his finger
And said, (bleep) you, jon, you've been (bleep) my wife".
Then he goes into the kitchen. I thought he was going to get another drink,
And when he comes out of the kitchen he comes straight at me,
And when I look up, he's got a knife in his hand
And he just jabbed it like that.
When he did, I knocked it out of the way
And jumped up out of my chair and then backed away from him.
I pulled my pocket-knife out as I was getting away.
And when he jabbed at me again, I went to knock him away
And I had my knife in my hand and I believe I hit him in the neck with my knife.
He grabbed his neck, turned and went to the bathroom.
He wasn't in there but a second and out the back door.
And then I called my wife and told my wife that tim and attacked me,
That I had cut him. It was bad.
I called for help immediately,
And the next thing I know I'm locked up in a squad car.
Nathan: Before he went in the kitchen and came back with the knife,
He made a statement to you. About having sex with his wife.
Yes.
-Were you? -No, absolutely. Not.
Well, in illinois, we do not have a 'stand your ground law'.
You have a duty to retreat. If you can.
You can, if threatened with deadly force,
Meet that deadly force proportionate to the imminent threat.
When tim came at you with the knife, did you feel
-Your life was threatened? -Absolutely.
Absolutely. I...
The way he jabbed that knife at me and the look on his face,
-He looked like he meant to hurt me bad. -Okay.
This... This is clearly a self-defense case.
People who commit heinous crimes with intent to commit that heinous crime,
Such as attempted murder or battery, they don't stay,
They don't call 911.
You, on the other hand, did.
We believe that you have a very strong case of self-defense
And we're going to do everything that we can to see that, that's put before a jury.
All right? Yup.
-All right. -I appreciate it.
You too.
Winston: Usually, in a criminal case,
The burden is on the prosecution.
In a self-defense case, he burden shifts and it's on the defendant.
Now we're going to have to show self-defense.
That jon was under attack, that he feared for his life
And that he acted proportionately.
This case is going to be decided by who they believe most.
One man's word against another.
My neighbor lives right over here in this grey house with a blue roof.
And that's where this incident happened.
I'd say I knew tim for 10 years
And considered one of my best friends.
I trusted him. I trusted that man.
I can tell he's watching because as soon I walk outside the door,
He comes outside to make sure that I know that he's watching.
It scares my wife, I think, worse and it scares me.
So, needless to say, it's...
It's been irritating and stressful.
Not to be able to live in your own home...
Living across the street from somebody that's telling lies about you.
It's heartbreaking, and there's no way to fix it.
There's no going back to that night.
Winston: Nathan, let's take a look at these photos
I got from the washington county sheriff's office.
-Winston: They're quite gory. -Nathan: Man, that's a lot of blood.
Winston: Well, it's a neck wound.
And you know, nathan, I can't even imagine just a smidge deeper.
And tim force could be dead. And jon, looking at murder charges.
-Nathan: This would be a whole different case. -Whole different case.
When this goes to trial, the prosecution is going to present the story.
You have a guy in his home, invited his neighbors over.
And at the end of the night, he's bled all over the place.
He's been slashed in the throat.
Their initial reaction is going to be, jon attacked tim,
And that's going to be a high hill to climb.
-Winston: We've got jon's knife. -Nathan: Mmm-hmm.
Where's 's the picture of tim's knife when he came out of the kitchen at jon?
Winston: Therein lies the rub. I haven't found that.
The crime scene investigator focused on everything,
Guns, food in the freezer.
Nathan: He doesn't inventory any knife.
I think by the time he gets on the scene,
The local sheriff's office has quote, "figured it out".
Winston: I believe the knife is there.
But due to poor police work,
That knife will not be found.
Nathan: It's a problem if we don't have a knife and our...
Winston: Big hurdle to overcome
...And our guy's being attacked with it. -That's right.
I mean, if this is self-defense, what are we defending ourself against?
I've got a case, I need your help with.
-Okay. -It's an aggravated battery.
No one was there at the time of the alleged incident,
Except the alleged victim and the defendant.
My client allegedly used a knife to cut a guy.
According to my client, force came at him with a knife,
And my client was able to brush it off and back up.
And in the meantime, pulled out his own knife,
Force came at him again,
Jon knocks tim force's hand out of the way
And in doing so, scrapes his neck.
Jon deneef has never wavered from day one...
This is all self-defense
So we've got a lot of people we need to interview and get statements from.
So, that's going to be very important,
Especially if you've kept relevant information, especially that night.
Timeline issues and stuff like that.
Excellent, I need an experienced investigator
And you're the guy I need.
-Okay, sounds good, let's do it. -All right.
My objective for winston is to find "the good, the bad and the ugly",
So he doesn't have any surprises when he goes to trial.
So, we're going to do our own investigation.
We're going to turn over every stone there is out there.
We're going to talk to anybody and everybody.
Jon: I spend a lot of time out here in the barn.
It helps give me something else to focus on.
This situation has tainted this place for me and my wife both.
We loved it here. Put our heart and souls in it.
I can't take it no more.
You get accused of something,
And you are guilty until proven innocent.
And that's exactly what this is.
In some of the people's eyes around here, I'm guilty.
There are people in this community,
That all they heard was I was accused of these crimes,
And that ain't ever going to go away.
And the thing that kills me the most about it...
I've spent almost $70,000 and two years of agony,
Lost a good job,
Just to defend myself.
And it's his word against mine.
I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.
Nathen, come in I want to show you this interview of jon deneef.
Nathan: And he's been in jail all night now?
He's been in jail all night, yeah.
Look at that hand motion he's making.
-When he's telling the cop what happened, he's reliving it. -He sure is.
"I brushed him away," but he's consistent with what happened the night before.
You know, he talks about, and the deputy asked him again...
"did you stab him or slash him?" and he gives a stab motion.
He says he stabbed him in the right shoulder.
We know there's no right shoulder wound, at this stage.
It was only a neck wound.
If there was no injury to tim's right shoulder,
Why should anybody believe jon's testimony
That there was a knife in tim's hand, coming at him?
In the police interview, jon said he stabbed his neighbor.
The prosecution is going to say that this was an intentional act.
And looking at the wound, jon is going to have to
Explain to me how he nicked him instead of stabbing him.
So, jon is coming in to tell us exactly what happened
So that we can get his story absolutely straight.
Winston: I called you in and we just want to talk a little bit more
About what happened that other night, okay?
So, say this table is where you were.
I know it's a desk. If you were sitting...
Jon: I were sitting here, my chair would have been like this
Because I had my beer and tim was on the other side of the table.
And he got up and went into the...
Well, we were arguing, and he turned around and he went into the kitchen.
Winston: And then what happened?
He comes right out in front of me and stands where nathan's at
And he just jabs a knife at me.
Nathan: Which hand was his knife in?
Jon: I believe it was in his right hand.
So, he comes out of the kitchen and he's coming at you
-With the kitchen knife? -Yes.
-And he jabs it at you. -And I went like this.
Nathan: Okay. Where was the knife pointed at?
Jon: Just like your hand is.
-And what did you do? -I went like this.
-Okay? And what did he do? -Winston: Okay, and then what?
He just stood right there when I knocked like this
And started following me.
-Okay? -And I grabbed my knife, just like this,
Pulled my knife out...
-Did he still have his knife out? -Yes, he did.
And he kept coming at me
And I said, "knock it off, tim! What are you doing?"
He kept coming at me,
And then he jabbed again, and when he did,
-I went like this to knock him out of the way. -Nathan: Mm-hmm.
He grabs for his neck, turns and goes to the bathroom.
When you watch the interview... You use this motion.
Winston: Stabbing motion...
And you told deputy campbell that you thought
That you had stabbed him in the right shoulder.
All I knew is I went to block tim
And I didn't know if it was a downward thrust a poking thrust.
I did not know.
He jabbed. I blocked. And I hit him and I felt my hand hit him.
But I don't know which position my hand was in.
I wasn't trying to attack him.
I had a knife in my hand and tried to block him.
The forensic evidence is consistent with
What you're telling us.
So that's important.
Winston: It's very important because you're going to have to do this
Again and maybe even again and again at trial.
You might have to do it over and over and over.
Nathan: I don't... I don't think that anything that we've heard...
-Winston: Contradicts? -Nathan: ...Contradicts a self-defense, defense.
Winston: Not a bit.
-Good to see you again, jon. -Thank you. You too.
Nathan: When the detective had him
Explaining things, the following morning,
He just had him sitting in that chair.
He was randomly flailing his arms.
But today I had him actually demonstrate,
As opposed to merely explain what had happened.
The ultimate question for the judge is,
"who was the initial aggressor?"
Tim is going to say, jon was.
Jon is going to say, tim was.
That question, and the answer to it, is going to decide this case.
-Jon: Got something for lunch? -Kathy: Yes.
-You hungry? You want beans? -Sounds good.
Okay, I'm having pea soup.
-You want cornbread? -A little piece. Not much.
Kathy: Okay
Jon: Thank you.
I don't like the idea of me going to prison,
But, you know, we've got to prepare for the worst.
If she know where they would put me in jail...
She gonna live close to me so she can see me if they let her see me.
Kathy: We depend on each other,
So it's hard to imagine not having that person that you depend on around.
This case is tough.
Because of what I'm going through, she's going through
Everything I'm going through, and she didn't do nothing.
-Kathy: He feels like he let me down. -Yeah.
You know, through all of this,
There's no way I can make it through this without you.
You've been the best, best supporter I could have ever had.
And I loved you before... (chuckles)
(sighs)
I didn't think I could love you more.
Winston: I've obtained the 911 calls from the prosecution.
Nathan's coming in this afternoon,
And we're going to listen to them.
-Winston: Hey, nathan. -Hey, winston
I hear that we have some new evidence.
I think that's it.
He reports to the 911 operator
That tim is alert, he's conscious.
The neighbor doesn't have much detail.
All he can say is, "I wasn't there, I don't know."
There's no surprise in there that hurts us.
Okay, we've heard the neighbor's 911.
We have the 911 from jon...
-Nathan: Good. -This is very exciting to hear...
I think this can really support our case
As far as his mindset.
-Nothing to cover up. Calling for help. -Right.
I agree. You know, this can only be good.
-Let's hear it. -Okay.
This is not good for his defense.
The initial "I slit my neighbor's throat".
You know, that's a problem for us we're going to have to
Be able to get people past the initial shock of...
-The admission. -Of the admission.
We're going to play this 911 call, -it's like he's confessing it's very bad. -It's bad.
Of course, in trial.
Um, it doesn't sound good. "I slit my neighbor's throat."
Uh, but at the same time, it's like he's confessing.
Guilty people just don't up and confess.
They run, they lie, and they hide.
That didn't happen here, and we need to play that up.
Right
Kevin: So I'm enroute right now to go interview mike scoles
And judy vickers.
They're next door neighbors of tim force.
-Kevin: Hi. Judy? -Yeah.
Judy, my name is kevin mclain. I'm a legal investigator.
I'm working for jon deneef and his attorneys.
I was wondering if I might be able to have permission to speak with you.
-I don't see any reason why not? -Okay.
-And you happen to be mike? -Yep, I'm mike.
Hey, mike. Very nice to meet you also, sir.
Just walk me through that night, before the incident happened.
We went over there, and I guess... About an hour, hour and half...
-Thought that was a good time for us to leave. -Right.
We came back, and it's about dark that time,
-And that's when I heard the banging on the door. -Mm-hm.
Opened the door and tim came in, and he had a towel around his neck,
You know, and said, jon slit his throat open,
You know, and I said, "huh?"
Kevin: Did tim say anything about what happened when he came over here?
The only thing I could get was jon left, came back in
And he was over by the fire,
And then he turned around and that's when jon sliced his throat.
Did he ever say why jon would cut his throat?
You know what? I could not see any reason for it,
-You know, I mean... We've been friends for years. -Right.
Jon's a big guy. I mean, he could've broke timmy, you know, by hand.
I mean, there was no one reason to pull a knife out on him, you know?
And, you know, I could see if tim came at him
And he had to protect himself or something.
Hopefully you still may have it. You've got your different
Cameras up there, the surveillance cameras.
-Tim: Yeah. -I was wanting to see maybe if you might possibly have
-Something that I could acquire? -Yeah. No problem.
Okay, great.
Mike: As far as the cameras on the house, they picked up everything
That happened that night
Kevin: Did the police ever ask for that?
No, not even once. I was surprised
-Thanks again, mike. -No problem, man. (chuckles)
Really appreciate it. Thank you, sir
These interviews are so important because...
We've just found new evidence that's never been collected,
So I'm really excited to find out what all is on that
Surveillance system, to tell the rest of the story.
Kathy: This has been my happy place for so long.
With everything that's happened,
This neighborhood just doesn't feel safe anymore.
This has affected me because I pulled back away from my community
Because I felt like I was-- we were branded as criminals.
You know, jon was branded as a criminal and I was his wife,
And I just thought, what must people think.
It's a scary feeling. It makes you feel like you're not safe.
I've forensically gone through this entire video
And there's not one time that jon leaves that house,
There's not one time that his truck leaves and goes back
Over to his residence. Nothing.
So, let me start playing it here, and watch this
Because as you can see, this is tim's house here
You know, he's saying john left... Left the house ,
Which john would have to have a vehicle.
You'd have to see lights coming across to the right.
And what amazes me, too about this is
Law enforcement never got this.
-Never got it, no. -Never?
Kevin: So let's go forward here and you go to see tim
Coming across to your... Right there, you see?
You're going to be starting to see lights coming on.
These are first responders, okay? 911 has now been called,
And now they're starting to show up at this time.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, these first responders
Are some people I think we need to talk to.
-'cause they'll have... -Oh.
-Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. -Mm-hm.
Kevin: This whole time we've watched this,
-We've not seen anybody else moving around... -Correct
...Or anything like that, except for tim.
In tim's interview, he said jon left the house.
This is conclusive that jon never left.
I was able to track down the first person on the scene.
His name's adam haas. He is a volunteer fireman.
And we're currently on the way out there right now, to go interview him.
-Hi. Adam? -Yes.
Hey, adam. My name is kevin mcclain,
And I'm a legal investigator.
There's an incident that happened up the road here
-Involving tim force. -Yes
-Can you remember that? -Yeah.
I'd like to have permission,
-Maybe to talk to you a little bit? -Yeah.
If you could share with me what you remember
-About that night... -Adam: Mmm-hmm.
We got the call. I showed up
And I was the first one there.
Tim was bleeding. He was cut at the... From, you know, in this area.
There was a lot of blood. We held the rags on him
And that's when he started talking.
Okay, so walk me back through what he told you had happened.
He told three different stories from the time it happened,
To the time we were at the hospital.
So within that hours' time, he'd given three different stories?
Yes, correct.
Okay, so let's go through the first story.
I said, "tim, what happened?" he said, "jon".
And I said, "what do you mean, "jon"?"
That's when he was going on about the-- his wife and jon thing.
He was telling me he was sleeping with patti,
And he said that then he left and came back with a knife
And he said that "he cut me".
So tim indicates that jon and patti had been
-Doing something together? -Yep.
And the fight because of patti?
-Yes, correct. -And then you mentioned about
There was a second time that he makes a statement.
Walk me through that.
This was on the way to he hospital.
He didn't directly tell me this. I was driving,
That's when I heard him telling the paramedics
Jon was trying to dance with him and he didn't want to dance.
And that's how it all happened.
Tim didn't want to dance with jon.
And that was the second story?
-Yes, that was while we were in the ambulance. -Okay,
And then there was a third story?
Yeah, he told the nurses in the hospital that jon was
Trying to do homosexual things with him and he didn't want to.
-Okay, thanks again. Appreciate it. -Thank you.
-Have a good evening. -You too.
Kevin: What was so important about adam's interview
Was tim gave three different statements
Within a matter of an hour's time,
That adam overheard.
Tim force, if he goes to trial, he's not going to remember which...
Which story he told to who, when.
Winston: You know, we're getting very close to trial.
I've got patti force coming in. The ex-wife of the alleged victim,
It's crucial that she tells me everything
About her husband and about what she knows about jon deneef.
Thanks for coming in this morning, patti.
When did you meet tim?
I met him in 2016.
I think it was in September or October.
-And then things just kind of just evolved from there. -Kind of just happened. Right.
All right. What happened to your and tim's relationship
After you two got married?
Everything went downhill. Absolutely everything. Um...
Actually, now when I look back after this long,
There was so many red flags that I totally just didn't see them.
Do you think that tim has an explosive character?
-Very explosive. -Just pops like that
Just like that. He would constantly blame me all the time
-That I was having an affair with somebody. -Oh.
And then, all of a sudden, now it was jon.
-He was fixated on jon? -Yeah, he decided it was jon.
Why would tim think you were having an affair with jon?
-I mean, was that true? -No.
-So you knew jon maybe a couple of years. -Right.
Uh. Before this incident...
Tell me, what kind of neighbor is jon?
Funny and loving and...
Just always caring about the neighbors,
-That kind of stuff, yeah... -Very helpful, a good... A good citizen?
You know, patti, jon's credibility and character
Are what is at stake at court.
Would you be able to stand up in court,
And say the things that you've told me in front of a jury,
Of a judge... Potentially, tim force?
I don't feel comfortable doing it, but I will do it
Because I'm not watching him do anything to these people.
This is just stupid and ridiculous, this whole thing is...
He's just an evil person and he's gonna get away with a bunch of (bleep)
And that's what it boils down to.
All right, miss force, thank you for coming in this morning.
It's difficult, but you're so critical to jon deneef's defense
That's no problem. Anything I can do to help.
Linda: All right. Winston: She's critical.
Her testimony is damning to that alleged victim
And very supportive of jon's self-defense.
It's indispensable.
Today is a day of substance.
This is our final pretrial. We filed a motion to rule on witnesses,
And we'll see what the state and the judge has to say
About the last minute motions that I filed.
Jon: This morning I woke up and started thinking about the case.
We've been stressed out for so long
And every time we get ready for a hearing of some sort,
I end up worrying and worrying.
There's been some pretty strong movement this morning from the state.
This case isn't going to be dismissed.
But they've come a long way.
Jon doesn't know any about this.
Kathy: There is winston, right there.
Winston: Uh, is that jon?
Winston: All right, jon.
Let me tell you what just happened.
There's been a flurry of activity this morning regarding the case.
The state's attorney has come to me
With a proposal to resolve it.
Basically, jon, 18 months of what I would call probation.
Keep your nose clean. Don't break any laws.
After 18 months, the aggravated battery is taken off the table.
No felony charge.
There would be an order entered, convicting you of reckless conduct,
And that's a class a misdemeanor.
It is not a felony.
You won't have a felony on your record.
Jon: So I can go back to work?
You can go back to wherever you want to go back to,
Whatever job you want.
That's the best outcome I could probably hope for,
-Short of going to trial and having a dismissal... -Mm-hm.
...At this point.
Winston: And you don't know what would happen in at trial
Cut my losses. I'm not guilty of these charges,
-But it's the best way to move on. -There we go.
If we go to trial, I have no idea what the judge is going to say.
Now, I don't have a crystal ball.
We don't know what's going to happen
-Until that signed by the judge. We'll see. -Okay.
Jon: I'll be saying my prayers tonight.
Something could change. I hope that that doesn't happen.
It's almost hard to have that hope that it's finally over.
It's been a long, long... (exhales) long road.
I'm glad it's... It looks like it's over,
But I probably won't feel that sense of relief until the judge says so.
Winston: You know, this is a complicated
Resolution to a complicated case.
We've worked this case with our investigator and our witnesses,
And we gathered enough evidence to fill in the gap
Of why did this explosion take place that night amongst friends?
Winston: Exactly.
But we've still got to get the judge on board.
You know, nathan,
These types of offers are never given for violent crimes.
And we all admit, this was a violent crime.
The photographs, the amount of blood.
Any judge would have significant questions about this.
It's good that we've gotten the prosecution down to our position,
But we're still going to have to be prepared
To convince the judge this is the appropriate thing to do.
If the judge rejects this disposition...
Where does that leave us? We're back to trial, right?
Winston: We are back to trial.
Jon: I'll take all my creature comforts.
Kathy: I've got everything I need.
Jon: Today, the judge looks at the agreement
And then either approves or disapproves.
So the judge could look at this,
And decide she doesn't like it
And everything could change.
These kind of negotiated pleas are reserved for nonviolent offenses,
And this is a violent offense.
I'm feeling a little nervous.
It's been two years, and it's all coming down to this morning.
Okay.
Winston: There it is.
Jon: Appreciate everything. Appreciate everything.
-Now, don't do this again. -I ain't. (laughing)
Jon: The judge has signed it. So now it's all on me again.
I'm relieved. Still feels numb, really.
I'm happy that it's over
I was worried to death that I was going to be locked up
And she was going to have to fend for herself.
At least I know I'm going to be there by her side now.