(suspenseful music playing)
(man speaking)
(policeman speaking)
(man speaking)
Man: I am being accused of something I had nothing to do with.
If I lose and I go spend 15 years in a cell...
(bleep)
Max: My name is max hiltner, I'm a criminal defense lawyer.
I'm currently representing ramon nieves,
He's charged with felonious assault.
Basically causing, or attempting to cause
Serious physical harm to another person.
In this case, shooting someone in the face with a shotgun.
And if he's convicted, ramon's looking at 15 years in prison.
The shooting took place in athens, ohio,
In January of 2017.
The victim's alex andrews.
As he's doing the dishes, he gets shot through the window
In the left side of his face with birdshot.
So it's small pellets that hit him right in the eye...
And caused a lot of damage.
He was a tattoo artist.
He had to sell that business, he can't do it anymore
Because he's blind in the left eye,
And then his right eye, he's partially blind, but he survived.
The prosecution investigated this case for a couple of years.
It wasn't until two confidential informants,
Ramon's friends, found themselves arrested,
About to be charged, and to get out of it they said,
"oh, we know about a shooting in athens, ohio,
"and we know who did it."
And they said ramon's name.
After that the police got a search warrant for ramon's dad's hunting cabin,
And they found the shotgun, they determined it to be the attempted murder weapon,
And they have the shotgun shell found at the scene.
It has ramon's dna and fingerprints on it.
(suspenseful music playing)
From a jury's standpoint, there's a lot of physical evidence,
And it seems pretty, you know, open and shut that ramon did this.
But ramon's been adamant the entire time he is innocent,
That he was in columbus the day of the shooting.
So, we think that ramon was set up.
The problem is with the facts and all the physical evidence, I'd say at best,
Twenty-five percent chance that ramon doesn't get convicted.
I 100% believe ramon' s innocent.
But it's an extremely tough case to win.
(somber piano music playing)
Ramon: It's really, like, a first-grade science experiment. (snickers)
Come on, buddy.
Yeah, we got power.
That to me is a little victory.
Boredom is a hell of a thing.
And all the science books I have, story of electricity, elements, basic physics.
Something that keep me occupied.
So, this is a g.P.S. Monitor.
I have a 300-foot radius around my house.
That's as far as I can go.
Um... There's no curfew. I'm just here.
Trapped in my house.
I'm not much of a homebody, that person. I'm more... Get out, do things.
Now, I'm just here.
Kind of in a fish bowl.
I spent the last two years, before this whole incident happened,
Trying to build my career,
Working with different human rights groups.
Definitely the happiest times of my life.
I was actually at a point where it was starting to take off,
And then everything just got stripped away.
It's ruined my career.
Put a strain on all my relationships, basically.
This has ruined who I am as a person.
I didn't do this. I wasn't there.
(dramatic music playing)
-Max. -Ramon. What's up, man?
-How's it going, man? -Good, man.
All right, ramon, so we're here today to talk about the charges
That you currently have against you.
So you've got the felonious assault,
And that you used a gun to shoot alex andrews.
Where were you at the time of the shooting?
I would have been in columbus.
Columbus which is a little over an hour away from athens.
-Did you know alex andrews? -Ramon: No.
Ramon: I've only ever met him once.
I know of the guy. I mean, he runs a tattoo parlor in athens.
Max: Okay.
Felonious assault is punishable by...
Up to eight years in prison, okay?
And then there's a firearm specification, because they're alleging
That you used a gun, you know, to commit this crime.
That's an additional mandatory three years, okay?
And because they say you tampered with your ankle bracelet,
That is tampering with evidence. So, that's punishable by three years,
And then they are saying you damaged the device.
Vandalism is punishable by up to one year.
That's how we get to a total of 15 years of total potential liability.
I think...
The tampering with evidence and the vandalism
Shows just the lengths that the state's willing to go to get you on something.
-Right. -Okay?
Because I think we both agree that it's total bs.
Yeah.
The way they identified you as a suspect in this case
Is based on the testimony of two old friends,
These confidential informants,
Who were trying to get out of different charges,
Told investigators that you had something to do with this.
Based on what these people told investigators,
They searched your dad's hunting cabin,
And tested one of the shotguns.
And that shotgun was shown to be the weapon that shot alex andrews.
They were able to prove that based on pinpoint or firing pin impressions,
'cause every firearm leaves a certain pin impression
And the shell casing left at the scene
Had that pin impression from the gun in your dad's hunting cabin.
The shell casings also have your dna and fingerprints on them.
But you've been adamant from the very beginning
That you were set up, that you did not do this.
So, how are we going to explain that your fingerprints and dna get on the shell casing?
Ramon: That's simple.
I handle all the shells.
I mean, everything there at our property is inventoried,
And I am the one who does that.
What do you guys do with the shotgun shells that you've already shot?
Any spent casings, if we find them, we...
Generally tend to pick them up, throw them away.
Uh, well, we keep them in our property.
Okay.
So, you mean, throw them away, you just put them in--
-You just mean put them in the trashcan on the property. -Yeah. Yeah, we got a bin.
-Did anybody else have access, uh, to the hunting cabin? -Yes.
Other individuals.
(suspenseful music playing)
Max: Did the confidential informants have access?
Yeah.
-So, the cis could have set you up. -That's what I'm thinking.
Max: I'm gonna be super honest with you.
The forensic evidence looks really bad on the surface, okay?
And the prosecution's gonna want the jury to believe
That based on that evidence alone, you're guilty.
We got a rough hill to climb, but we tell your story to the jury,
And I think they're going to see that other people had access to the dome,
And, you know, had means and opportunity, you know, to set you up.
Ramon: Thanks, max.
Max: Jurors love to see the forensics
And here they have the smoking gun.
On the shell casing at the scene of the shooting,
Is ramon's dna and fingerprints.
This is an extremely strong forensic case,
But we just have to prove that he was set up,
Which is going to be very difficult.
Ramon's life's on the line.
Ramon: I am being accused of shooting a person I have met one time,
Someone who I had nothing to do with.
And I'm looking at 15 years of my life,
Plus the years of my life they've already taken.
The prosecutors aren't interested in justice or the truth.
They're just interested in a body, and currently, I am that body.
So, I'm terrified about prison.
Max: Ramon's charged with felonious assault for allegedly shooting
Alex andrews in the face with a shotgun.
And if he's convicted, he's looking at 15 years in prison.
We know where ramon was working the day that alex andrews was shot.
He was working on the west side of columbus,
Several hours away at a hotel.
The prosecution are alleging that ramon drove from columbus, to the hunting cabin,
Picked up a gun, went to the victim's house,
Shot him in the face, then drove back to columbus in time, that night,
To start his shift the next morning at 6 a.M.
So, I've got to sit down with ramon,
Go over that route with him, and see if it's even possible.
So, ramon, we know based on your work records,
Which we have,
That you worked the shift before alex andrews was shot in columbus
And then you worked a shift after...
-Right. -...Alex andrews was shot.
The state believes this is the route you took to go shoot alex andrews.
So, to go from your work
To the hunting cabin, where they say you went to go get the gun.
Then they say from there you went to go shoot alex andrews,
And then from there, went back to the hunting cabin,
Dropped the gun back off again.
And then went from your hunting cabin...
To your house in the west side of columbus.
So, that entire trip,
No stops, no nothing, no delays, no gas...
Is eight hours and 42 minutes, and it's 538 miles.
My car can't even do that.
Yeah, well, that actually brings me to my next question.
What kind of car were you driving at that time?
Uh, cavalier.
Okay.
So, it's just a two wheel drive, front wheel drive car, right?
Yeah. And I'm pretty sure it only can get 300 miles out of a tank.
Max: What's the driveway made of up to the hunting cabin?
Because I know it's very rural.
It's just dirt.
I mean, there's a little bit of gravel on it,
But most of it is washed away.
Okay. Is it hilly? Is it flat?
And, uh, it's hilly.
It's beat up.
Max: Would your car be able to get up there?
Ramon: If it's wet, zero chance.
(suspenseful music playing)
Max: Well, this is ohio in January.
There's likely at least snow.
Would you have been able to get your car up there in January?
No. You need a truck.
-Okay. Did you have a truck at the time? -No.
Ramon: If the car can't get up, you gotta walk.
Could you have walked it at the time?
No. My leg was messed up.
-You were injured? -Yeah.
What did you do to your leg?
I got injured in an accident.
I'm pretty sure I was still on a cane.
I did get an x-ray.
-They told me that I probably tore my acl. -Okay.
-So, your car can't get up the driveway in January? -No way.
-You physically couldn't get up the driveway in January? -Definitely not.
(suspenseful music playing)
Max: They have nothing that puts you in athens or doing this trip.
You'd have to keep a low profile.
No speeding tickets.
Not captured at any gas stations or anything like that. No receipts.
You know, refueling. I mean, nothing.
So, yeah, I think mapping this out is extremely helpful.
If it's impossible for you to have done it,
It really puts a hole in their case.
(dramatic music playing)
Max: I mean, look at how we're bouncing around. This is insane.
The confidential informants, these ci's say that ramon drove out here
On this road in January where there would have been snow on the ground.
There's no way he made this drive in a cavalier. No way.
It's a lot bigger than I thought it would be.
It is. It's crazy that ramon and his dad built this place.
Max: Yeah.
What we want to prove as part of this elaborate setup was that the ci's
Could have come out here at any point in time, picked an ejected shotgun shell
Out of one of ramon's guns that's on the ground.
-Lauren: Yeah -max: And that would have ramon's dna on it.
-Right here on this panel, that's all bird shot. -Lauren: Yeah.
On the pin there, that's bird shot.
So same type of ammunition used to shoot alex andrews.
So, right here.
Yeah. Right here. We've got a little remington, uh, .223 round
Now it has my touch dna on it because we're just dealing with skin cell dna.
-Lauren: Yeah. -Max: But this has whoever's dna shot it, on it.
Lauren: We know that the ci's had access,
But their dna was never tested against the bullet. Is that right?
No, they just tested against ramon and it had ramon's dna.
But it's his gun and he's out here shooting stuff all the time.
Like this, I guarantee if we tested, it has ramon's dna on it.
Hey, max.
Max: And there's the shell casing. Where are those at?
-Lauren: In the trash. -Max: Really?
Yeah.
These, 100%, would have somebody's dna on it.
So if the ci's came up here, they would know that ramon picks up his empties,
Throws them in the trash. So they wouldn't even have to go scouring the field.
They could walk right over,
Pick out of the trash,
The box of spent shells,
Carry it with them, drop it at the scene of the shooting.
And boom, you've got a suspect.
Lauren: I think those are the exact same type of the spent shell casing
That was found at the scene, right?
Max: They are, and these are birdshot.
This is huge.
We've got to document this for trial
Because these are exhibits we can use.
Oh, we got another one.
Today we learned that it's entirely possible that
The two ci's set ramon up for the shooting
Which is the whole theory of our case.
Anybody could pick up any of these spent shell casings,
Any of these spent cartridges, and that they would have ramon's dna on them,
And put it wherever they wanted to.
So that's all anybody would have to do.
It's totally possible that
Ramon's dna gets to the crime scene, and he was never there.
-Ramon: Hey -hey, son, how you doing?
Ramon: I'm good. How are you, man? Good to see you.
You're in trouble now, boy. No, your not... (laughs)
Ramon: My dad's one of my best friends.
He's definitely a hero of mine.
He's always had my back, no matter how weird it's gotten.
I mean, financially,
There's no way I could have done this without him.
Um, I could not afford max as a lawyer.
All that takes money and that's money he's saved up
For his retirement and now it's being spent towards this case.
Ah, checkmate.
He's got me beat. Done for.
(both laugh)
-Good game. -Antonio: That was good.
(somber music playing)
Antonio: Ramon is a go getter,
He's a hard worker
And so...
Being cooped up in the house, under house arrest
-For two years now, two and a half years... -Ramon: Yeah, roughly.
...Has been very difficult.
I worry about you going to jail,
I know that being in jail is a "dog eat dog" situation.
What are your fears?
I mean, obviously, I'm worried about going to prison.
And, you know, it's a harsh environment.
Antonio: It's a dangerous situation.
See you soon.
Having one of your children accused of doing
A crime and having to spend numbers of years in jail
Is a very stressful and it's very painful.
I'm thinking about my son and how I can help him the most
In this dire situation.
He's a people's person, he's always out making friends.
He's a good kid.
The system has never been for black or puerto ricans.
He could be treated differently because of his color.
I'm worried about him going to prison and never coming out.
(dramatic music playing)
Max: The confidential informants, ramon's friends,
Are the ones that started the whole investigation into ramon.
Sometimes informants are confidential
Because they know the person that they are pointing the finger at.
It could just be john doe,
A law-abiding citizen who is coming forward,
But is sort of afraid of retribution,
Doesn't want their name out there.
Or it could be like a jailhouse snitch
That's coming forward, you know,
To sort of lighten a sentence or get out of trouble.
-Hey, lauren. -Lauren: Hey.
Ready to dig into these tapes?
-Lauren: I am. -Good.
Max: Our theory is that
Ramon was set up by these two.
So seeing how credible they are is everything,
Because that's the story we're going to tell to the jury.
So both these ci friends of ramon,
Uh, are basically saying he shot him
And that he confessed this to us at a party.
And then they say ramon and the victim have, like, a woman in common.
It sounds like there was some bad blood for a while between them.
Max: Yeah.
If you believe them, ramon's the new boyfriend trying to protect
His new girlfriend.
That gives the motive
That we didn't know before.
If there's a woman in common,
Potentially some overlap, maybe the prosecution's going to say that's the motive.
When it turns into a thing about a girl
That becomes a more clear, understandable, relatable,
Believable motive.
These guys are really tough witnesses for us.
I mean, if the fingerprints and the dna weren't damning enough...
Max: These two ci's
Could really sink our case.
Max: So both these confidential informants,
These ci's, are basically saying
Ramon and the victim have, like, a woman in common.
-And that is not good for us. -No.
Max: The thing that bothers me is
The detail of the shooting that only the shooter would know.
Mm-hm.
The ci says where the shooter was positioned, which we know is true.
The kitchen window, right?
Max: Yeah, outside the kitchen window.
And then the most important thing, which again,
I think, is terrible for us is,
He describes the shooter shooting him once
And then going to shoot him with a second shot,
But the gun jammed and that the second round ejected
And then was left on the ground.
Those are extremely accurate details
That nobody knows
Except for the shooter, or somebody that was there.
So, either ramon actually said this stuff to these ci's
Or these ci's were there.
That's the only other possible explanation.
They have been picked up in a criminal matter.
And they're telling this story
-As sort of a get-out-of-jail-free card. -Yeah.
The only other alternative is these two did it
And are setting up ramon. That's the only thing. But that is...
-That is a tall order to get a jury to believe. -Yeah
Because it's ramon's dna and fingerprints
On the shell casing at the scene.
And if there's a woman in common,
Maybe the prosecution's going to say that's the motive,
And that's going to be very bad for us.
So we've got to talk to ramon about this
Because we have to assume these are people that are going to testify
And we have to know how to respond.
(dramatic music playing)
Max: So we've got two confidential informants.
Okay? We have their audio recordings.
Lauren and I sat down with them
And listened to them from start to finish.
These people say some very damaging things against you.
They provide pretty much everything the prosecution needs to know to lock you up.
(dramatic music playing)
They claim to know the motive
For you to supposedly shoot alex andrews, the victim.
The fact that, um, you and he shared the same girlfriend.
Right.
This is really bad for us, if it's true.
The fact that you two dated the same girl
At some point in time.
-Years apart. -Years apart. Okay.
Ramon: She dated him four years before her and I even met.
Max: Okay, so there's no overlap in the relationship?
Ramon: Not at all. I've only ever met him once.
Max: Is there anything else I need to know?
Ramon: I really don't even know what the hell's going on.
I'll tell you the same thing I told the detectives. It's a setup.
Okay.
The prosecution categorized
These two ci's as subjects of a criminal matter.
Obviously, the information that they're sharing is very bad for you, okay?
But the information that they're sharing is also very good for them.
Okay? Because the only reason to share this information is to sort of help themselves
Because they can potentially get charges dismissed,
They can get a shorter sentence.
They have a lot of motive.
So that's all stuff that we can cross-examine them with at trial.
We can affect their credibility at trial.
The jury is going to look at them much differently
Than if they're just a concerned citizen coming forward
With information.
Because I do think knowing that
Makes our theory of a setup much more plausible and much more likely.
It also makes what they have to say
Much less credible, in my opinion.
And I believe we can, you know, sell that to the jury as well, okay?
Ramon: Okay.
(somber music playing)
Ramon: Hey, ma, dinner in, like, ten.
-Mother: Yeah, that's fine. -Ramon: All right.
Ramon: So my mom needs me to cook for her
Because of her vision, it's deteriorating.
She's got a few health complications.
She had a stroke a few years back
And she's at high risk for strokes again.
I'm her caretaker.
So, (sighs) you know, if things go south at trial,
I don't know what she's going to do.
I hope that she can take care of herself.
That worries the hell out of me.
That's one of the things that makes me angry, too.
Any time I can't support her, I get mad.
Mother: Bless me father for this meal we are about to receive
There's just one thing our bodies want to your wealth, in jesus' name, we pray. Amen.
Ramon: This whole situation is backwards.
It's just a bunch of criminals trying to get away with this and throw me under the bus.
Can you pass me the hot sauce please?
-Mother: Uh, which one? -Green.
They want to frame me for this,
Then let them do the work. Let's go to trial.
All right. So it looks like we are coming up
On the house here on the left.
So the prosecution's alleging that ramon parked his car up that hill.
Um, there's a little alleyway back behind this house.
I think that's the alley they're talking about.
Lauren: Oh, I see that there. Yeah, there's like a...
-Max: There is an alley. -Lauren: A gravel path there. Yeah.
Max: You know, it seems like what the state's theory is,
He parked over there, stood in wait outside the back of the house,
Waiting for him to come into the kitchen
And then shot him, you know, point blank in the face with the shotgun.
I think what's interesting, though, is how close
And how on top of each other all these houses are.
This is a college neighborhood,
So it's not weird for people to be up at like 1:30 in the morning.
So I think it's strange, there's no witnesses that saw anything,
Heard anything or saw anybody running away or limping away
Because we know ramon would have been limping because he had the bad leg
And he was using a cane at the time.
-Um... -You'd think the police would have found at least one witness
That could say, " yeah, I saw a red cavalier was parked
-In the back of my house or in front of my house. -Max: Right.
So, I took a look at the 911 dispatch transcript.
The shooting happened at, like, 1:52.
Uh, the call came into the police at 1:54,
And they were dispatched then.
And then the first officer is clocked in at getting here at 1:55.
So the police, like, arrived at the scene within three minutes
Of the actual shooting.
So, the perpetrator would have had to flee like, super, super-fast.
I mean, you would still be-- you'd be hearing the sirens coming
And that the person would still be fleeing at the same time.
That's how tight of a timeline they were on.
I don't think it's possible ramon could have done this,
Just given his physical ailments at the time, with his bad knee.
It would have required him to carry a shotgun,
Park his car, and then go up that slippery, muddy hill,
Um, to his car and drive away undetected. I just don't think it's possible.
(cell phone ringing)
Okay, cool. Sounds good.
All right. Bye-bye.
So, I've just heard from the prosecutors.
They've just reached out and offered
A pretty appealing plea bargain.
Two and a half years in prison
And pay the victim, alex andrews,
$100,000, restitution.
I think it's an extremely good offer.
I was shocked that the prosecution was willing to make that offer.
It's something ramon's really got to consider.
You know, he's looking at 15 years in prison,
If he goes to trial and is convicted on everything.
So I've texted ramon to call me asap,
And I'm just waiting on that call now.
I think we've gotten this offer
Because the prosecution's getting a little more nervous about their case
And seeing that, "hey, look, you know,
"we do have two confidential informants
"that have a lot of reasons to lie and a lot of reasons to point the finger at ramon."
They're worried that, uh, potentially, ramon could walk, entirely,
If they put these, these couple of witnesses on the stand.
So, I think they finally decided to make us a somewhat reasonable offer.
(cell phone ringing)
-Hey, ramon, how you doing, bud? -(ramon speaking over phone)
Yeah. So I just got off the phone with the prosecution.
Um, they are offering, in exchange for a plea to the felonious assault,
And criminal damage, two and a half years in prison,
And restitution of approximately $100,000 to alex andrews.
(ramon speaking over phone)
So, I know with trial coming up, that's a big decision,
But the prosecution is going to want an answer essentially right away.
And so that's where they're at.
I mean, what are you feeling? What's your initial instinct
Hearing, you know, what that offer is?
Max: The prosecution are offering a pretty appealing plea bargain.
Two and a half years in prison and restitution of $100,000.
What's your initial instinct hearing, you know, what that offer is?
(ramon speaking over phone)
(ramon sighs and continues speaking over phone)
Okay. All right.
So, all right. We'll just, you know--
Do me a favor, ramon, shoot that to me in an email,
You know, and then I'll email her right away.
-Okay? -(ramon speaking over phone)
All right. Take it easy. Bye-bye.
Max: Well, I'm somewhat surprised.
The entire time ramon's been adamant he's going to trial,
But it seems ramon's weighed the risks associated with it
And has decided that, you know, the sure thing of two and a half years
Is pretty appealing to him.
Limiting his risk from 15 years
To two and a half and being able to move on with his life,
You know, before he's 30, have a family
And, you know, get his career going again.
I think he's making the right choice.
It's a tough choice. But I think it's the right one.
All right. So I just sent that email off to the prosecutor.
So, um, I don't really think there's anything else to button up
Other than signing the final paperwork.
We have a deal, in principle, and case is over.
(cell phone ringing)
Max: Hey, ramon, what's up, bud?
(ramon speaking over phone)
Max: Okay.
I mean, I guess I just kind of want to know your rationale.
(ramon speaking over phone)
-Uh-huh. -(ramon speaking over phone)
-All right. -(ramon speaking over phone)
Ramon, I'm just-- I'm very confused
Because you represented that this was a done deal.
I let them know that, you know, I tell them that we're good to go.
The prosecution relies on that.
And, you know, they relayed that to the victim.
(ramon speaking over phone)
Okay, well, I-- I think you just need to sleep on it.
If you're open to that, let's just reconvene tomorrow.
You, me and your dad. Let's get on the phone and let's talk this out.
You know, I know this is a tough decision, but, you know,
I think before I tell them what you want me to, I think we all got to talk.
-Okay? All right. -(ramon speaking over phone)
All right. Talk to you tomorrow. Bye-bye.
(exhales)
It's so frustrating because this is really going to piss the prosecutors off. 100%.
Um, you know, what they could do, is they could re-indict him.
They could re-indict him with attempted murder.
You know, then his 15 years of potential prison
Could turn into several more decades.
It is really going to anger them.
And it's really going to harm ramon, I think.
(exhales)
For the last two and a half years,
I've pretty much told myself every day
That I would fight this.
I don't know.
At least if I fight them, I can say that I tried.
And I didn't just roll over and give up.
(exhales)
But, um...
If I lose, I'm really screwed.
Just everything about this just screams, like,
They don't really have it together.
'cause I think if we really presented it,
I could clear my name.
Everyone I've talked to wants me to sleep on this.
I've slept on it for two and a half years.
I want to fight this case.
Ramon: I talked to some friends.
I talked to my mother.
I talked to my old man.
Everybody seems to think the best course of action is to take this deal.
I'm not inclined to agree.
I'd rather go down fighting.
I could roll the dice and, uh...
I could lose.
And my parents are old.
And my dad is my hero and my mother's done everything she can.
She's a good woman.
(exhales)
If I lose, then I go spend 15 years in a (bleep) cell.
And, if my mother dies...
(sobbing) how could I forgive myself?
(bleep)
(cries)
(sobs)
Damn it!
Max: Today is ramon's plea decision.
Only he can make that decision.
So we're about to go in there and ramon's going to learn his fate.
Ramon's got an extremely good offer.
But I can't tell him what to do.
Accepting this deal, he'd be a convicted felon for the rest of his life.
But if he goes to trial and is convicted on everything,
He's looking at at least 15 years in prison.
So, it's an incredibly difficult decision to make.
Ramon: I've been playing this over in my mind a lot.
There is a lot of emotions going on.
A lot of things going through my head.
Everything about this situation makes me angry.
But I can't afford to be angry right now.
(suspenseful music playing)
(melancholic music playing)
We had to watch ramon go away in handcuffs.
Had to watch him, you know, tear up saying goodbye to his dad.
It was just very emotional.
But, you know, at the same time, this was a decision
That was made, not about himself, but about his family.
It is a tough pill to swallow.
But they were threatening to re-indict him with attempted murder.
They could have stacked all that on top of him at trial
And he'd be doing decades in prison.
That would ruin his life.
Ramon: I took the deal because it was the least risky thing
I could do in this situation.
I'd rather go down fighting, but, um, both my parents are old.
There's a time to be selfish and there's a time to not be.
That's what I'm going to keep in my mind.