1 00:00:10,252 --> 00:00:11,301 (phone ringing) 2 00:00:12,847 --> 00:00:14,179 (woman speaking) 3 00:00:15,516 --> 00:00:16,682 (man speaking) 4 00:00:20,170 --> 00:00:21,669 (woman speaking) 5 00:00:21,689 --> 00:00:23,605 (man speaking) 6 00:00:29,012 --> 00:00:29,862 (sniffles) 7 00:00:33,868 --> 00:00:34,867 (man speaking) 8 00:00:37,429 --> 00:00:38,203 Woman: Where is the mom? 9 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:40,289 (man speaking) 10 00:00:42,192 --> 00:00:44,434 Man: There's no logic to what I did. 11 00:00:44,528 --> 00:00:48,047 What happened has nothing to do with me, 12 00:00:48,198 --> 00:00:50,215 Other than the medical condition that affected me. 13 00:00:54,388 --> 00:00:56,055 (woman speaking) 14 00:00:56,206 --> 00:00:57,473 (man speaking) 15 00:01:06,550 --> 00:01:08,567 (woman speaking) 16 00:01:08,718 --> 00:01:09,651 (man speaking) 17 00:01:14,909 --> 00:01:16,742 (michael sr. Speaking) 18 00:01:16,893 --> 00:01:18,893 Man: It's like I want to scream, but I can't. 19 00:01:18,913 --> 00:01:20,579 Everyone look at me and say he's a murderer. 20 00:01:21,473 --> 00:01:22,372 He killed his wife. 21 00:01:40,492 --> 00:01:42,159 (beeps) 22 00:01:42,252 --> 00:01:43,268 Benjamin: My name is benjamin kim. 23 00:01:45,013 --> 00:01:47,013 I'm a criminal defense attorney 24 00:01:47,108 --> 00:01:48,107 In portland, oregon. 25 00:01:50,444 --> 00:01:52,778 I graduated from boston university school of law. 26 00:01:58,844 --> 00:02:02,788 My client, michael winchester, is accused of 27 00:02:03,015 --> 00:02:05,515 Unlawfully and intentionally causing the death 28 00:02:05,609 --> 00:02:06,625 Of his wife, heidi, in winchester. 29 00:02:10,297 --> 00:02:11,872 The prosecution is alleging 30 00:02:11,966 --> 00:02:14,282 That mike winchester strangled his wife 31 00:02:14,301 --> 00:02:17,970 And then tried to kill himself with a box cutter. 32 00:02:19,865 --> 00:02:23,142 He then discovered that his wife may not have been dead, 33 00:02:24,703 --> 00:02:27,479 And so then he took the box cutter, 34 00:02:29,150 --> 00:02:30,649 Cut her neck. 35 00:02:30,876 --> 00:02:34,653 And then she died in a very violent, bloody way. 36 00:02:38,567 --> 00:02:41,218 This case is particularly unique. 37 00:02:41,311 --> 00:02:45,998 At issue is not whether mike winchester physically killed his wife, 38 00:02:47,409 --> 00:02:49,168 We know that he physically did. 39 00:02:49,395 --> 00:02:51,837 The issue of the case is whether or not 40 00:02:52,064 --> 00:02:56,324 He was suffering from a medical condition. 41 00:02:56,418 --> 00:02:58,010 That caused him to kill his wife. 42 00:03:00,255 --> 00:03:02,848 If he is convicted of murder, 43 00:03:02,999 --> 00:03:04,600 He would be spending the rest of his life in prison. 44 00:03:24,038 --> 00:03:25,662 Mike: I'm accused of murdering my wife. 45 00:03:27,766 --> 00:03:29,433 And like I said, it's really hard to say that 46 00:03:29,526 --> 00:03:31,435 Because it just doesn't even feel like 47 00:03:31,528 --> 00:03:33,003 When I say that that I'm talking about myself. 48 00:03:36,792 --> 00:03:38,108 Michael: From day one, 49 00:03:38,201 --> 00:03:41,369 Blake and I have defended our dad. 50 00:03:41,463 --> 00:03:43,964 Because of the fact that he was very ill at the time. 51 00:03:44,058 --> 00:03:45,015 In leading up to that. 52 00:03:46,710 --> 00:03:48,710 And so hearing that a murder charge 53 00:03:48,804 --> 00:03:50,562 Is being placed against my dad, 54 00:03:51,732 --> 00:03:53,023 Is just surreal and... 55 00:03:53,959 --> 00:03:55,809 Heartbreaking and... 56 00:03:55,961 --> 00:03:58,070 Didn't make sense. It didn't add up 57 00:03:58,297 --> 00:04:01,031 To the person that we knew my dad to be. 58 00:04:03,577 --> 00:04:04,818 Blake: I lost my mom. 59 00:04:04,912 --> 00:04:07,487 So I'm a victim here, but I'm supporting my dad 60 00:04:07,581 --> 00:04:09,473 'cause I know it's the right thing to do, 61 00:04:09,491 --> 00:04:11,750 And I know my mom would not want our dad in prison. 62 00:04:13,754 --> 00:04:15,254 Mike: I'm fighting for my boys, 63 00:04:15,405 --> 00:04:19,483 And they want me to, so that makes me feel like 64 00:04:19,501 --> 00:04:20,842 There's no other option for me. 65 00:04:29,845 --> 00:04:31,661 This is a box that annie made for me 66 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:33,346 To keep all my pictures in. 67 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:34,273 So... 68 00:04:35,350 --> 00:04:36,358 I put them all in here. 69 00:04:39,021 --> 00:04:41,855 This is a picture from 1984. 70 00:04:41,949 --> 00:04:45,117 One of the first pictures I probably had with annie. 71 00:04:45,268 --> 00:04:47,953 We met at a dance club in portland. 72 00:04:48,180 --> 00:04:50,438 I remember when I left and I just hugged her. 73 00:04:50,457 --> 00:04:52,124 And... 74 00:04:52,351 --> 00:04:54,609 It was just that feeling, like, you know, 75 00:04:54,703 --> 00:04:55,877 You're the one kind of thing. 76 00:04:57,189 --> 00:04:58,463 This is our wedding photograph, 77 00:04:58,690 --> 00:05:00,924 And I just remember being nervous that day. 78 00:05:03,137 --> 00:05:04,861 I'd like to toast, 79 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,556 Um, to michael my best friend 80 00:05:08,475 --> 00:05:09,866 And I look forward... 81 00:05:09,959 --> 00:05:11,535 Look forward to growing old with you. 82 00:05:11,628 --> 00:05:13,645 -All: Aww. -(clapping) 83 00:05:15,131 --> 00:05:17,131 Mike: When michael was born, 84 00:05:17,225 --> 00:05:19,133 I remember the feeling of driving away from the hospital, 85 00:05:19,227 --> 00:05:21,302 When you drive up and said, well, 86 00:05:21,322 --> 00:05:22,571 It's never going to be the same again. 87 00:05:24,232 --> 00:05:25,473 This is blake. 88 00:05:25,492 --> 00:05:26,491 When he was born... 89 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:30,662 We both loved being parents at that age. 90 00:05:31,999 --> 00:05:34,291 Hi. I am with my sons. 91 00:05:34,835 --> 00:05:36,576 (kisses) 92 00:05:36,728 --> 00:05:37,919 Mike: She was a great mother. 93 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:40,730 She gave it her all. 94 00:05:40,749 --> 00:05:42,007 It was definitely a happy place. 95 00:05:42,992 --> 00:05:44,676 (babbling) 96 00:05:47,997 --> 00:05:49,497 Mike: This photo was taken 97 00:05:49,516 --> 00:05:51,767 The day before annie had her first surgery. 98 00:05:54,413 --> 00:05:57,939 She was diagnosed with stage 4 rectal cancer. 99 00:06:00,602 --> 00:06:04,363 The doctors told her she had a 15-20% chance of surviving that 100 00:06:05,199 --> 00:06:07,366 And that was in 2011. 101 00:06:09,611 --> 00:06:11,277 It was definitely a sad time, 102 00:06:11,372 --> 00:06:14,021 But it was the time I remember being kind of on adrenaline 103 00:06:14,041 --> 00:06:18,377 Because I was the primary parent at that point, 104 00:06:18,604 --> 00:06:21,546 Probably for the next ten years, and... 105 00:06:21,773 --> 00:06:23,623 I just remember doing what had to happen 106 00:06:23,717 --> 00:06:25,108 From day to day. 107 00:06:25,127 --> 00:06:26,701 It wasn't really a choice 108 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:28,778 And lots of doctor appointments 109 00:06:28,872 --> 00:06:30,555 And chemotherapy and radiation and... 110 00:06:31,633 --> 00:06:33,809 Trying to raise two boys. 111 00:06:34,286 --> 00:06:35,352 So... 112 00:06:36,638 --> 00:06:38,455 This picture is a sad photo. 113 00:06:38,473 --> 00:06:42,234 It was in October of 2018 114 00:06:42,385 --> 00:06:47,406 And annie's cancer that had started in 2010 came back. 115 00:06:49,243 --> 00:06:51,317 They did another scan 116 00:06:51,412 --> 00:06:53,537 And found that she had cancer in her lung. 117 00:06:54,415 --> 00:06:55,247 At that time... 118 00:06:55,991 --> 00:06:57,140 (exhales) 119 00:06:57,159 --> 00:06:58,583 It's really hard to look at. 120 00:07:02,906 --> 00:07:04,572 The first time was just all adrenaline, 121 00:07:04,591 --> 00:07:07,092 But the second time, it was just so defeating 122 00:07:07,243 --> 00:07:10,095 Knowing that there was nothing that could be done. 123 00:07:10,322 --> 00:07:13,247 And... Well, it wasn't that long after we found out 124 00:07:13,341 --> 00:07:15,416 That her cancer was terminal 125 00:07:15,436 --> 00:07:19,104 And that she really only had a few months to live at that point. 126 00:07:33,436 --> 00:07:35,287 Mike winchester is coming in today. 127 00:07:37,032 --> 00:07:39,015 I want to make sure that he understands 128 00:07:39,108 --> 00:07:40,792 The charges that are against him, 129 00:07:41,019 --> 00:07:42,686 As well as 130 00:07:42,704 --> 00:07:45,446 Getting a more granular 131 00:07:45,466 --> 00:07:49,709 Understanding of every moment that he can remember 132 00:07:49,803 --> 00:07:52,095 That led up to annie's death. 133 00:07:56,368 --> 00:07:58,643 One of the things you should be aware of is that 134 00:07:58,870 --> 00:08:00,870 You're charged in a single count indictment 135 00:08:00,964 --> 00:08:02,439 And it's a single count of murder. 136 00:08:04,467 --> 00:08:05,875 Murder is life 137 00:08:05,894 --> 00:08:08,445 With the possibility of parole after 25 years. 138 00:08:17,664 --> 00:08:19,739 Mike: I was feeling very weak. 139 00:08:19,833 --> 00:08:21,148 I wasn't sleeping. 140 00:08:21,168 --> 00:08:22,742 I wasn't eating. 141 00:08:22,836 --> 00:08:26,079 And when I would close my eyes, I would see bright lights. 142 00:08:26,173 --> 00:08:28,732 Like if your tv was doing static like shh... 143 00:08:28,825 --> 00:08:30,083 That's... I would close my eyes. 144 00:08:30,177 --> 00:08:31,492 That's what I would see, and it would never go away. 145 00:08:31,586 --> 00:08:33,011 There was like this noise in my head. 146 00:08:33,162 --> 00:08:35,905 That didn't really change during that time period. 147 00:08:35,924 --> 00:08:38,408 And then, I was sitting at home 148 00:08:38,426 --> 00:08:40,577 And I just thought to myself, I can't do this anymore. 149 00:08:40,670 --> 00:08:43,096 There was... My brain started thinking, 150 00:08:43,248 --> 00:08:45,673 Or when I say my brain, I was thinking, 151 00:08:45,692 --> 00:08:47,083 I can't do this anymore, 152 00:08:47,102 --> 00:08:49,361 And I felt like I didn't want to live anymore. 153 00:08:51,757 --> 00:08:53,439 That was where... I don't know what happened. 154 00:08:53,592 --> 00:08:55,108 But something happened there 155 00:08:55,202 --> 00:08:59,279 In the sense that I couldn't stop obsessing about suicide. 156 00:08:59,431 --> 00:09:04,042 And I got a rope, and I got a utility blade. 157 00:09:04,193 --> 00:09:08,104 And then I started thinking, I can't leave annie by herself. 158 00:09:08,123 --> 00:09:11,841 That's the first time I thought about anything with annie, at that point. 159 00:09:14,462 --> 00:09:16,780 Um, then I walked down the hallway 160 00:09:16,873 --> 00:09:19,540 And I thought, I'm going to come from... 161 00:09:19,634 --> 00:09:21,184 I'm just going to strangle her, which is what I did. 162 00:09:25,290 --> 00:09:26,314 After that, 163 00:09:27,568 --> 00:09:29,959 I went and got the rope, 164 00:09:29,978 --> 00:09:32,904 Hung it over the railing and I let go. 165 00:09:33,056 --> 00:09:36,816 And the second that I felt the rope take hold, 166 00:09:36,968 --> 00:09:40,561 It severed and I hit the ground and I felt this thump 167 00:09:40,655 --> 00:09:42,655 And I hit my head and my side. 168 00:09:42,749 --> 00:09:45,250 And I got up and this rope cinched around my neck 169 00:09:45,401 --> 00:09:46,376 And it's really tight. I'm holding it. 170 00:09:48,980 --> 00:09:51,739 And I started cutting the rope, and when I did, 171 00:09:51,758 --> 00:09:53,817 I cut my... I nicked myself. 172 00:09:53,910 --> 00:09:56,152 And then I'm thinking, I've got to do something. 173 00:09:56,171 --> 00:09:59,097 So then I started cutting my neck. Cutting my neck... 174 00:09:59,324 --> 00:10:00,673 That didn't do it. And then I started cutting 175 00:10:00,826 --> 00:10:02,892 My wrists, and blood spurting everywhere. 176 00:10:04,512 --> 00:10:05,937 I got light-headed and passed out. 177 00:10:08,108 --> 00:10:11,334 I woke up and, I don't know, it's probably a few hours later, 178 00:10:11,427 --> 00:10:13,519 I heard a sound and I don't know what it was. 179 00:10:13,614 --> 00:10:14,446 It sounded like... 180 00:10:15,340 --> 00:10:16,114 (exhales) 181 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,118 And I thought, oh my god, is she alive? 182 00:10:20,345 --> 00:10:22,269 And at that point, I walked up with a knife 183 00:10:22,289 --> 00:10:24,122 And she was lying face down. 184 00:10:24,273 --> 00:10:26,958 And I came in behind, and I just started cutting. 185 00:10:27,110 --> 00:10:30,019 -Cutting her neck. -Yeah, but I think I almost more protruded it in 186 00:10:30,113 --> 00:10:31,855 Because it was like I poked it in 187 00:10:31,873 --> 00:10:32,881 -Instead of slashing. -Okay. 188 00:10:34,635 --> 00:10:35,592 And... 189 00:10:38,213 --> 00:10:39,638 You know, factually speaking, 190 00:10:39,789 --> 00:10:41,881 There's of course, no way to dispute 191 00:10:41,975 --> 00:10:46,144 The fact that you physically caused the death, right? Um... 192 00:10:48,556 --> 00:10:52,041 So there are possible defenses 193 00:10:52,060 --> 00:10:54,878 That you would have in your case, okay? 194 00:10:54,896 --> 00:10:57,471 Now, my plan is 195 00:10:57,565 --> 00:11:03,161 That you were under the law insane at the time of the incident. 196 00:11:03,388 --> 00:11:09,501 Okay? But this concept of insanity, in general, 197 00:11:09,728 --> 00:11:13,254 Is hard for a jury to wrap its head around. Okay? 198 00:11:25,852 --> 00:11:28,019 It's a hurdle because insanity 199 00:11:28,246 --> 00:11:30,671 For many people means something 200 00:11:30,765 --> 00:11:33,766 That it does not legally mean. 201 00:11:33,860 --> 00:11:37,937 You don't have to be wearing a tinfoil hat, 202 00:11:38,089 --> 00:11:41,199 Bugs crawling on my body kind of insane. 203 00:11:41,350 --> 00:11:43,092 That is not the legal requirement, 204 00:11:43,186 --> 00:11:44,327 But that's what most people think of. 205 00:11:46,781 --> 00:11:49,290 So I need to convince the jury... 206 00:11:51,044 --> 00:11:53,786 That mike winchester 207 00:11:53,939 --> 00:11:57,382 Could not appreciate in any normal sense, 208 00:11:58,460 --> 00:12:00,777 What he was doing. 209 00:12:00,795 --> 00:12:04,389 And that he was legally insane at the time of the homicide. 210 00:12:21,891 --> 00:12:23,241 When mike winchester 211 00:12:23,468 --> 00:12:26,060 Started to get sick and goes into the hospital, 212 00:12:26,154 --> 00:12:27,245 Was hospitalized for four days. 213 00:12:29,324 --> 00:12:33,810 There was obviously some sort of infection going on 214 00:12:33,903 --> 00:12:39,090 Because his white blood cell count went from four to 15. 215 00:12:41,319 --> 00:12:44,745 The hospital said, it probably is meningitis, 216 00:12:44,765 --> 00:12:46,264 But you seem to be getting better. 217 00:12:48,101 --> 00:12:49,851 So we're gonna send you home. 218 00:12:52,664 --> 00:12:53,772 Hi. 219 00:12:55,942 --> 00:12:57,258 I'm not speaking. 220 00:12:57,277 --> 00:12:58,926 (laughs) 221 00:12:58,945 --> 00:13:00,761 My baby's home. 222 00:13:00,855 --> 00:13:02,113 He's such a warrior. 223 00:13:03,508 --> 00:13:04,449 Really happy to have him back. 224 00:13:05,176 --> 00:13:07,510 Okay. 225 00:13:07,529 --> 00:13:10,288 Benjamin: This occurred one month before the homicide. 226 00:13:16,704 --> 00:13:18,296 (phone ringing) 227 00:13:20,950 --> 00:13:21,800 Richard (on phone): Hello, ben. 228 00:13:22,027 --> 00:13:23,468 Benjamin: Hi, richard. How are you? 229 00:13:23,619 --> 00:13:24,719 Richard: I'm okay. 230 00:13:31,719 --> 00:13:33,812 Benjamin: You're aware from looking at the medical records 231 00:13:33,963 --> 00:13:37,982 That there was a diagnosis of likely viral meningitis. 232 00:13:38,893 --> 00:13:40,151 (richard speaking) 233 00:13:44,991 --> 00:13:46,658 Okay. All right. 234 00:13:46,885 --> 00:13:49,994 In terms of a medical expert opinion 235 00:13:50,221 --> 00:13:53,147 As to what mike was suffering at the time, 236 00:13:53,241 --> 00:13:54,982 What is your diagnosis? 237 00:13:55,076 --> 00:13:56,668 (richard speaking) 238 00:14:06,513 --> 00:14:08,680 Benjamin: Can you comment on the psychiatric disorders 239 00:14:08,831 --> 00:14:10,515 Associated with encephalitis? 240 00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:13,184 (richard speaking) 241 00:14:15,021 --> 00:14:16,020 Benjamin: Mm-hmm. 242 00:14:17,190 --> 00:14:19,582 (richard speaking) 243 00:14:19,601 --> 00:14:21,025 Benjamin: Mm-hmm. 244 00:14:21,177 --> 00:14:22,360 (richard speaking) 245 00:14:24,589 --> 00:14:27,681 Alteration of impulse control. 246 00:14:27,701 --> 00:14:29,425 Benjamin: And would it be fair to say 247 00:14:29,444 --> 00:14:32,686 That mike's extreme violent behavior, the suicide attempt, 248 00:14:32,706 --> 00:14:34,855 Is that all consistent with someone 249 00:14:34,875 --> 00:14:37,691 Who has had an acute encephalitis? 250 00:14:37,785 --> 00:14:39,043 (richard speaking) 251 00:14:53,134 --> 00:14:56,786 At the time, I didn't have the ability to really understand 252 00:14:56,879 --> 00:14:59,731 I didn't know why it happened, but now I know why it happened. 253 00:15:02,402 --> 00:15:05,645 I was physically altered at the time, 254 00:15:05,739 --> 00:15:08,814 And I just want that to come out and... 255 00:15:08,967 --> 00:15:12,468 And explaining it is hard because that... 256 00:15:12,487 --> 00:15:14,228 What happened, what I did and for, you know, 257 00:15:14,247 --> 00:15:16,063 The horrible things that happened, 258 00:15:16,082 --> 00:15:17,974 Which are horrible, and that's the part that I have to live with. 259 00:15:18,067 --> 00:15:20,067 I can't get away from what happened. 260 00:15:20,086 --> 00:15:21,753 And I wish I could say I can't remember it. 261 00:15:21,980 --> 00:15:22,754 But I do. 262 00:15:26,259 --> 00:15:27,667 I loved annie, 263 00:15:27,819 --> 00:15:30,002 And that's what was reflected 264 00:15:30,155 --> 00:15:32,096 During the whole time that I was married, 265 00:15:32,323 --> 00:15:33,914 During the whole time she had cancer 266 00:15:33,934 --> 00:15:35,508 And suffered from the effects of it, 267 00:15:35,660 --> 00:15:37,602 And I was always there for her, and I know she knows that. 268 00:15:39,755 --> 00:15:42,607 There's no logic to what I did. 269 00:15:42,758 --> 00:15:47,336 I know that what happened to me was nothing to do with me 270 00:15:47,355 --> 00:15:49,364 Other than the medical condition that affected me. 271 00:15:51,342 --> 00:15:53,368 And it's just whether a jury can wrap their mind around it. 272 00:16:14,307 --> 00:16:17,049 Benjamin: What is your opinion about mike's mental state 273 00:16:17,202 --> 00:16:19,978 At the time of the homicide? 274 00:16:20,129 --> 00:16:24,148 His brain was so devastated by the encephalitis that... 275 00:16:26,152 --> 00:16:30,396 Manifested in a very detrimental way 276 00:16:30,490 --> 00:16:34,141 With these symptoms that were out of his control. 277 00:16:34,235 --> 00:16:37,829 He was so severely affected by the suicidal depression 278 00:16:37,980 --> 00:16:39,831 And the neurological impairment 279 00:16:39,982 --> 00:16:44,985 In combination with the cognitive deficits, like easily confused, 280 00:16:45,079 --> 00:16:48,564 And he can't think of various other options available to him. 281 00:16:48,583 --> 00:16:53,660 It was this internal need to complete this act. 282 00:16:53,755 --> 00:16:56,906 He was just obsessed with this idea of ending his life, 283 00:16:56,924 --> 00:16:59,075 And that was the only option available. 284 00:16:59,093 --> 00:17:02,411 So in this case, my opinion is that he does meet the criteria 285 00:17:02,505 --> 00:17:04,671 For guilty except insane, right? 286 00:17:04,766 --> 00:17:06,582 He's not a perpetrator. 287 00:17:06,601 --> 00:17:08,526 He's a victim of this medical condition. 288 00:17:09,512 --> 00:17:10,695 So, I don't see him 289 00:17:12,032 --> 00:17:14,423 Being culpable in the same way 290 00:17:14,442 --> 00:17:18,202 The average thinking person is in a murder case. 291 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,432 No, I mean, the more I think that we can describe that 292 00:17:23,451 --> 00:17:25,451 In those kind of words, 293 00:17:25,545 --> 00:17:30,289 And describe guilty except insane in that one path, 294 00:17:30,383 --> 00:17:35,136 Then I think a jury is more likely to understand that. 295 00:17:38,466 --> 00:17:40,308 We're not asking to excuse his conduct. 296 00:17:41,452 --> 00:17:43,302 We're saying he did it. 297 00:17:43,454 --> 00:17:45,563 You're guilty. Except you were insane at the time. 298 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,294 If mike is found guilty, except for insane, 299 00:17:51,387 --> 00:17:55,981 He will be committed to the oregon state hospital for review. 300 00:17:56,134 --> 00:17:59,077 My hope would be that mike would be released pretty much that day. 301 00:18:13,259 --> 00:18:15,093 (woman speaking) 302 00:18:18,990 --> 00:18:23,684 It's a mental health evaluation relating to the charges of my case: Murder. 303 00:18:24,996 --> 00:18:26,020 Woman: Hmm. 304 00:18:32,261 --> 00:18:33,519 I couldn't even look at her. 305 00:18:33,671 --> 00:18:34,946 I knew what I was going to do 306 00:18:35,173 --> 00:18:36,447 And she was kind of turned from me, 307 00:18:36,674 --> 00:18:38,533 And I just started strangling her. 308 00:18:40,178 --> 00:18:43,788 And I wasn't looking in her eyes, and I... 309 00:18:43,939 --> 00:18:46,624 Kept doing it. It would seem like it went on forever. 310 00:18:53,691 --> 00:18:55,358 Benjamin: So, right out saying, 311 00:18:55,376 --> 00:18:57,718 The fact that you couldn't look into her eyes. 312 00:18:58,805 --> 00:19:01,455 Means you knew it was wrong. 313 00:19:01,474 --> 00:19:02,956 Megan: Mm-hmm. 314 00:19:02,976 --> 00:19:05,125 If I looked into her eyes, I might not have done it. 315 00:19:05,145 --> 00:19:06,552 Megan: Right. 316 00:19:06,646 --> 00:19:08,462 And then, she says, this suggests his capacity 317 00:19:08,481 --> 00:19:09,630 To appreciate the wrongfulness 318 00:19:09,724 --> 00:19:11,874 Of the conduct remained intact. 319 00:19:11,893 --> 00:19:16,154 I would point out, you know, there's a difference between... 320 00:19:16,381 --> 00:19:18,305 Maybe he understood on some level 321 00:19:18,399 --> 00:19:19,732 It was wrong or he felt bad 322 00:19:19,884 --> 00:19:21,308 That he was putting her through some pain. 323 00:19:21,327 --> 00:19:23,310 Benjamin: Uh-uh. 324 00:19:23,329 --> 00:19:24,996 But that's different than knowing you're engaging in a criminal act. 325 00:19:26,332 --> 00:19:27,832 (woman speaking) 326 00:19:29,911 --> 00:19:30,835 I would say no because... 327 00:19:33,339 --> 00:19:34,672 But I know it is now. 328 00:19:37,235 --> 00:19:39,084 I don't know that. Well, let me think about this. 329 00:19:39,237 --> 00:19:40,094 I don't know that... 330 00:19:43,424 --> 00:19:46,184 At that time, I wasn't thinking about right or wrong. 331 00:19:46,411 --> 00:19:49,002 I was just thinking about the situation. 332 00:19:49,022 --> 00:19:51,247 I mean, would I think it would be against the law? 333 00:19:51,265 --> 00:19:53,082 Probably, yeah. Probably. 334 00:19:53,175 --> 00:19:54,692 But it wouldn't have been something that I was thinking about. 335 00:19:57,104 --> 00:19:59,197 That's as close as he gets to saying, 336 00:20:00,925 --> 00:20:02,591 Yeah, I knew it was against the law. 337 00:20:02,610 --> 00:20:06,853 But again, it's like probably if I had been thinking about it, 338 00:20:06,873 --> 00:20:10,023 In that context, which he clearly wasn't. 339 00:20:10,043 --> 00:20:11,934 Benjamin: My concern is this. 340 00:20:12,027 --> 00:20:15,104 The person lacks substantial capacity 341 00:20:15,122 --> 00:20:17,440 To appreciate the criminality. Right? 342 00:20:17,533 --> 00:20:21,868 I think I'm worried that the answer to that is going to be, 343 00:20:21,963 --> 00:20:24,947 He may not have thought about it at the time, right, 344 00:20:24,966 --> 00:20:27,391 But he could have. He had the ability to do that. 345 00:20:49,582 --> 00:20:51,490 Benjamin: So the note that he wrote says, 346 00:20:51,584 --> 00:20:52,750 "so sorry, boys. 347 00:20:54,645 --> 00:20:55,920 None of this is fair. 348 00:20:57,832 --> 00:21:01,092 I could not bear to watch mom suffer anymore. 349 00:21:03,170 --> 00:21:04,262 I am a failure. 350 00:21:07,008 --> 00:21:10,268 I could see no way for me to move forward and live 351 00:21:12,497 --> 00:21:14,772 And no ability to get out of this despair." 352 00:21:18,927 --> 00:21:20,861 What part of this says, "I know it's wrong to kill annie." 353 00:21:23,341 --> 00:21:29,011 I think this note supports opinion, 354 00:21:29,030 --> 00:21:31,938 That he is just hyper-focused on suicide, right? 355 00:21:31,958 --> 00:21:34,274 -Ross: Mm-hmm. -I mean, he killed his wife. 356 00:21:34,294 --> 00:21:37,870 But that part is like very little. 357 00:21:38,022 --> 00:21:41,114 I mean, this note isn't about sorry, you know, about mom. 358 00:21:41,134 --> 00:21:42,374 Ross: No, I think you're right. 359 00:21:42,468 --> 00:21:45,528 I think it shows that he regrets the suffering. 360 00:21:45,621 --> 00:21:47,696 A necessary choice is going to... Yeah. 361 00:21:47,715 --> 00:21:49,198 Yeah. I mean, if anything, 362 00:21:49,216 --> 00:21:51,475 Like if you were to summarize this note is, 363 00:21:52,478 --> 00:21:54,537 I'm sorry, I'm such a loser. 364 00:21:54,555 --> 00:21:56,314 A failure. 365 00:21:56,465 --> 00:21:58,465 -I couldn't figure out. -Yeah. 366 00:21:58,484 --> 00:21:59,892 I couldn't figure out any other way. 367 00:21:59,986 --> 00:22:01,544 That's right. 368 00:22:01,562 --> 00:22:04,322 So, how does that establish any kind of, 369 00:22:04,473 --> 00:22:06,157 Like appreciation of wrongfulness? 370 00:22:08,828 --> 00:22:12,813 The issue for a jury to understand is that, 371 00:22:12,832 --> 00:22:16,058 "wow, if a guy could write a note like this, he probably was sane. 372 00:22:16,077 --> 00:22:17,835 But I think we get every expert to say, 373 00:22:18,062 --> 00:22:20,171 "no, you can be completely insane 374 00:22:20,398 --> 00:22:22,064 "and still be able to write a note." 375 00:22:22,083 --> 00:22:26,761 And I think that these kind of skills are the last to go. 376 00:22:37,523 --> 00:22:38,689 There you go. 377 00:22:38,841 --> 00:22:39,607 -Thank you. -Oh. 378 00:22:43,011 --> 00:22:46,030 At this point, now that we're so close to the trial, 379 00:22:46,924 --> 00:22:48,273 Practically every day, 380 00:22:48,368 --> 00:22:51,260 Sometimes even by the hour, just comes with 381 00:22:51,278 --> 00:22:53,929 A different emotion and mindset 382 00:22:53,948 --> 00:22:56,290 And different things that I'm having to confront. 383 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,694 So, especially today on thanksgiving, 384 00:23:00,788 --> 00:23:04,030 Where at the time, where I want to be super thankful, 385 00:23:04,050 --> 00:23:07,868 For the time we're all spending. Um... 386 00:23:07,887 --> 00:23:11,447 It's just hard to ignore this charge of murder pressed against him. 387 00:23:11,465 --> 00:23:12,631 Thank you. 388 00:23:12,783 --> 00:23:14,040 I'm happy that we're all here. 389 00:23:14,135 --> 00:23:16,227 Michael: I love you guys a lot. 390 00:23:16,454 --> 00:23:18,954 You did a magnificent job, michael. 391 00:23:19,047 --> 00:23:20,973 Blake: I want this nightmare to end, but I don't want... 392 00:23:21,125 --> 00:23:22,716 I don't want my dad to go away, 393 00:23:22,810 --> 00:23:24,476 But it could be a reality, 394 00:23:24,629 --> 00:23:26,153 And that's the scariest thing about it. 395 00:23:29,057 --> 00:23:31,634 Michael: It's important that I win my case because... 396 00:23:31,652 --> 00:23:33,226 I want to be with my boys. 397 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:34,728 The boys are everything to me. 398 00:23:34,747 --> 00:23:36,580 They've always been everything to me. 399 00:23:36,732 --> 00:23:38,657 You know, I hate that my kids have to go through this. 400 00:23:38,751 --> 00:23:41,310 It's the one thing that just kills me as a father, 401 00:23:41,328 --> 00:23:43,236 Knowing that I am supposed to be here, 402 00:23:43,330 --> 00:23:46,340 And I want to provide them that safety net that I can't do. 403 00:23:48,928 --> 00:23:50,836 You know, I'm hoping for the best, 404 00:23:50,988 --> 00:23:53,079 But I'm also realistic that... 405 00:23:53,174 --> 00:23:56,600 That I'm not going to be around likely for some time. 406 00:24:04,593 --> 00:24:06,669 As mom would say, very handsome. 407 00:24:06,687 --> 00:24:09,262 The trial, it's now here. 408 00:24:09,356 --> 00:24:11,690 It's been... It was a month ago, and then it's going to be 409 00:24:11,784 --> 00:24:15,194 A week from trial, and now it's actually here. 410 00:24:15,288 --> 00:24:18,122 I've tried to put out of my mind what happened, 411 00:24:18,349 --> 00:24:21,292 And it's going to be right in front of me again, and it's going to be raw. 412 00:24:23,521 --> 00:24:25,688 It's like I want to scream, but I can't 413 00:24:25,781 --> 00:24:26,947 And I just have to sit there 414 00:24:26,966 --> 00:24:28,524 And have everyone look at me and say 415 00:24:28,542 --> 00:24:30,468 "he's a murderer. He killed his wife." 416 00:24:44,208 --> 00:24:46,633 On January 30th, 2019, you'll hear that 417 00:24:46,652 --> 00:24:49,803 Heidi anne winchester was pronounced dead. 418 00:24:49,822 --> 00:24:50,988 She was 50 years old. 419 00:24:53,326 --> 00:24:56,218 She was down, face down on the floor of her bedroom, 420 00:24:56,237 --> 00:24:59,071 In a pool of her own blood. 421 00:24:59,223 --> 00:25:02,166 A heavy duty box cutter knife was found nearby her body. 422 00:25:04,486 --> 00:25:10,749 The cause of death in this case was sharp force trauma on her neck. 423 00:25:10,843 --> 00:25:14,069 I submit to you that the evidence in this case will show 424 00:25:14,088 --> 00:25:17,072 That michael winchester intended to cause her death. 425 00:25:17,091 --> 00:25:19,925 He not only strangled her as she was saying no to him, 426 00:25:20,077 --> 00:25:21,835 But then violently slit her throat, 427 00:25:21,854 --> 00:25:23,687 Leaving her in a bloody pool on the floor. 428 00:25:25,249 --> 00:25:26,690 He did not want her to survive. 429 00:25:29,678 --> 00:25:30,861 Mr. Kim, at your convenience. 430 00:25:33,348 --> 00:25:35,824 Benjamin: This is such a sad, sad case. 431 00:25:38,037 --> 00:25:42,164 And it's difficult because it's such a complicated case. 432 00:25:43,876 --> 00:25:45,209 What would cause 433 00:25:46,879 --> 00:25:51,840 A 53-year-old man who has never been violent, 434 00:25:53,627 --> 00:25:55,219 Who has loved his family, 435 00:25:57,557 --> 00:26:01,116 Has never been in trouble with the law, 436 00:26:01,209 --> 00:26:06,063 Has never had any instance whatsoever that would raise any alarm bells, 437 00:26:08,550 --> 00:26:10,401 What would cause that person 438 00:26:12,572 --> 00:26:13,904 To be in this situation? 439 00:26:14,648 --> 00:26:15,739 It's complicated. 440 00:26:18,969 --> 00:26:23,747 We agree mike winchester physically killed annie winchester that day. 441 00:26:24,992 --> 00:26:27,326 We agree, he strangled her. 442 00:26:27,478 --> 00:26:30,754 We agree, he stabbed her neck. 443 00:26:31,816 --> 00:26:32,756 We agree. 444 00:26:35,577 --> 00:26:38,337 But life is not black and white. 445 00:26:38,431 --> 00:26:41,599 Life is complicated. This case is complicated. 446 00:26:43,919 --> 00:26:47,938 And in this case, I am going to beg you to dig just a little deeper. 447 00:26:55,022 --> 00:26:58,115 When you went up to the second floor, what did you observe? 448 00:26:58,266 --> 00:27:00,692 I remember a lot of blood, um, 449 00:27:00,845 --> 00:27:04,955 And a length of rope hanging from a bannister. 450 00:27:06,684 --> 00:27:09,776 So from this vantage point, I was able to see 451 00:27:09,795 --> 00:27:12,037 The puddle on the floor inside the door, 452 00:27:12,189 --> 00:27:13,631 That appeared to me to be blood. 453 00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:19,303 Can you explain what we're looking at in this photo? 454 00:27:19,454 --> 00:27:21,380 Tony: Substance that's coming from under the door, 455 00:27:21,532 --> 00:27:22,806 That's coming from mrs. Winchester, 456 00:27:25,460 --> 00:27:28,887 And the utility knife there on the right has blood on it. 457 00:27:29,039 --> 00:27:33,651 I believe that was the tool that was used on poor mrs. Winchester. 458 00:27:36,471 --> 00:27:39,564 Adrienne: And the next photo that we'll be looking at is fairly graphic. 459 00:27:39,659 --> 00:27:40,883 Tony: Yes, ma'am. 460 00:27:40,976 --> 00:27:42,901 Can you explain what we're looking at? 461 00:27:43,053 --> 00:27:44,995 John: You're now behind the door. 462 00:27:45,222 --> 00:27:47,498 You can see that she is in, um... 463 00:27:47,725 --> 00:27:50,834 In a prone position laying down on her abdomen. 464 00:27:51,061 --> 00:27:53,486 You can see, her arms are up above her head 465 00:27:53,506 --> 00:27:55,414 As she is face down on the floor. 466 00:27:55,508 --> 00:27:58,158 You can see quite a bit of blood has pooled up 467 00:27:58,252 --> 00:28:00,344 Around in the upper torso area. 468 00:28:02,497 --> 00:28:04,664 That blood pool that we talked about, 469 00:28:04,684 --> 00:28:06,591 That blood stain that was coming out from under the door, 470 00:28:06,744 --> 00:28:10,688 You can see, it appears to be emanating from her head, 471 00:28:13,675 --> 00:28:14,692 Bailiff: All rise for the jury. 472 00:28:20,925 --> 00:28:22,591 Mike: I didn't look at any of the photographs, 473 00:28:22,609 --> 00:28:23,992 Because I don't want to remember annie that way. 474 00:28:25,946 --> 00:28:29,614 There is nothing I wouldn't do to change any of what happened. 475 00:28:29,767 --> 00:28:33,043 But I know that I wasn't healthy, and that will come out. 476 00:28:36,623 --> 00:28:38,941 Benjamin: The state went through a lot of photos. 477 00:28:38,959 --> 00:28:41,293 They're trying to inflame passion. 478 00:28:41,445 --> 00:28:43,554 They're trying to show a bloody scene 479 00:28:43,781 --> 00:28:46,390 That is so bad, that no juror says, 480 00:28:46,617 --> 00:28:49,117 We can't let this go no matter what. 481 00:28:49,136 --> 00:28:50,710 It was too awful. 482 00:28:50,804 --> 00:28:51,895 We can't let it go. 483 00:29:02,408 --> 00:29:03,907 Mike's life is... 484 00:29:06,394 --> 00:29:10,230 In my hands and if I screw up, 485 00:29:10,324 --> 00:29:15,827 If I don't present everything that I can in the best way possible, 486 00:29:15,980 --> 00:29:18,589 Then mike and his family pay the price. 487 00:29:33,998 --> 00:29:35,773 Benjamin: Had you ever seen mr. Winchester 488 00:29:35,924 --> 00:29:37,608 Act violently towards his wife? 489 00:29:37,835 --> 00:29:39,425 No. 490 00:29:39,445 --> 00:29:41,503 Have you ever seen him act violently towards his children? 491 00:29:41,522 --> 00:29:43,505 Absolutely not. 492 00:29:43,524 --> 00:29:44,948 Benjamin: Have you ever seen him act violently? 493 00:29:45,676 --> 00:29:47,509 Never. 494 00:29:47,528 --> 00:29:49,194 Benjamin: Have you ever seen him expressing anything to you 495 00:29:49,346 --> 00:29:50,954 That would indicate that he was suicidal? 496 00:29:51,682 --> 00:29:53,348 No, um... 497 00:29:53,367 --> 00:29:57,185 You know, mike was so devoted to his wife and kids, 498 00:29:57,279 --> 00:30:00,631 That the idea that he would commit suicide was unfathomable to me. 499 00:30:04,878 --> 00:30:07,137 Benjamin: After your dad got out of the hospital, 500 00:30:07,289 --> 00:30:11,141 If you could kind of describe what your dad was like. 501 00:30:11,293 --> 00:30:12,267 He was like a zombie. 502 00:30:14,038 --> 00:30:15,461 Blake: He was very quiet. 503 00:30:15,556 --> 00:30:19,650 I mean, just didn't seem like there was any life in him. 504 00:30:19,877 --> 00:30:23,487 Benjamin: Was anything like the dad you've previously known for your 20 years? 505 00:30:23,714 --> 00:30:24,613 No. 506 00:30:28,977 --> 00:30:32,812 Benjamin: During your interaction with mike, over work matters, 507 00:30:32,832 --> 00:30:35,666 Do you remember anything about the tone of his voice? 508 00:30:35,817 --> 00:30:39,503 It was almost like I didn't recognize mike on the phone. 509 00:30:39,730 --> 00:30:42,655 Um, everything seemed kind of flat. 510 00:30:42,749 --> 00:30:47,160 Not really logical, not really responding to me, just... 511 00:30:47,179 --> 00:30:50,180 He was always so positive and solid 512 00:30:50,332 --> 00:30:52,832 And just level-headed. 513 00:30:52,926 --> 00:30:54,743 And he just seemed very flat. 514 00:30:54,761 --> 00:30:56,502 Benjamin: All right, he... He seemed like a different person. 515 00:30:56,522 --> 00:30:57,688 -Definitely. -Benjamin: Okay. 516 00:31:04,421 --> 00:31:08,365 It's really important for a jury to understand 517 00:31:08,592 --> 00:31:10,942 That mike was insane at the time. 518 00:31:11,036 --> 00:31:14,496 Legally insane because of a form of encephalitis. 519 00:31:21,955 --> 00:31:24,106 Just by reading the medical records, 520 00:31:24,199 --> 00:31:27,384 Had you formed an opinion or suspected 521 00:31:27,535 --> 00:31:29,720 Whether or not mr. Winchester had an encephalitis? 522 00:31:31,056 --> 00:31:32,705 I wasn't sure. 523 00:31:32,725 --> 00:31:37,452 Yeah, the records were not so clear as to what he had. 524 00:31:37,471 --> 00:31:43,049 However, after I examined him, my conviction that he had encephalitis solidified. 525 00:31:43,143 --> 00:31:46,219 Benjamin: Is your opinion that a person with no evidence 526 00:31:46,238 --> 00:31:50,482 Of any kind of violent behavior, no homicidal tendencies, 527 00:31:50,576 --> 00:31:54,136 Or homicidal behavior, his family described him as 528 00:31:54,154 --> 00:31:57,489 As having a personality change 529 00:31:57,583 --> 00:32:01,084 And that he ultimately tries to kill himself 530 00:32:01,311 --> 00:32:03,812 By hanging, cuts himself many times 531 00:32:03,905 --> 00:32:06,214 And kills his wife of 30 years. 532 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,652 Taking all that into account, 533 00:32:10,671 --> 00:32:13,321 Is your opinion the same that that person 534 00:32:13,340 --> 00:32:16,324 Was likely suffering from an encephalitis 535 00:32:16,343 --> 00:32:20,437 That caused a number of psychological and mental state symptoms? 536 00:32:20,664 --> 00:32:22,731 It could not be said more vividly. 537 00:32:24,334 --> 00:32:25,275 Yes. 538 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:27,945 (intense music playing) 539 00:32:38,106 --> 00:32:42,775 Benjamin: Was there any evidence of functional impairment of mr. Winchester 540 00:32:42,869 --> 00:32:47,447 Prior to December of 2018. 541 00:32:47,541 --> 00:32:48,873 Megan: Not at all. 542 00:32:49,026 --> 00:32:50,692 No, he was functioning at a very high level. 543 00:32:50,711 --> 00:32:52,302 He was able to go to work every day, 544 00:32:52,529 --> 00:32:54,304 Care for his sons, care for his wife, 545 00:32:54,456 --> 00:32:58,049 Take her to her appointments and then, he gets ill 546 00:32:58,202 --> 00:33:01,036 And that pretty much stops. 547 00:33:01,054 --> 00:33:04,147 Benjamin: How unusual is it, in your experience, 548 00:33:04,299 --> 00:33:09,377 Where you would have an individual with no history of mental health illness, 549 00:33:09,471 --> 00:33:14,324 And then all of a sudden, have a mental illness to this severity? 550 00:33:14,476 --> 00:33:17,068 Have you ever seen that happen before? 551 00:33:17,221 --> 00:33:21,164 I have not. That's... It's exceptionally rare. 552 00:33:21,316 --> 00:33:24,893 Benjamin: So what is your opinion about mr. Winchester's mental state 553 00:33:24,911 --> 00:33:26,670 When he caused the death of his wife? 554 00:33:28,749 --> 00:33:33,159 Megan: Because of that medical illness, he could not step back 555 00:33:33,178 --> 00:33:35,570 And self-assess what he was doing. 556 00:33:35,663 --> 00:33:38,406 He was just consumed by it. 557 00:33:38,425 --> 00:33:43,669 By his... This desire to end her suffering and then end his own. 558 00:33:43,689 --> 00:33:47,691 It far superseded any ability to kind of stand back and... 559 00:33:49,194 --> 00:33:52,696 Evaluate the wrongfulness of his behavior, 560 00:33:52,847 --> 00:33:54,865 Or the criminality of his conduct. 561 00:34:13,201 --> 00:34:16,720 Kimberly rideout. R-I-d-e-o-u-t. 562 00:34:23,228 --> 00:34:27,564 During the course of your discussion with mr. Winchester, did he describe for you, 563 00:34:27,791 --> 00:34:31,126 The exact series of events in his own words, 564 00:34:31,144 --> 00:34:34,462 About the method with which he killed his wife? 565 00:34:34,481 --> 00:34:36,222 Kimberly: He did. 566 00:34:36,241 --> 00:34:38,300 Matthew: Did you observe anything that speak 567 00:34:38,318 --> 00:34:41,486 To whether or not he actually engaged in goal-directed behavior 568 00:34:41,638 --> 00:34:44,915 Leading up to the killing of annie winchester? 569 00:34:47,586 --> 00:34:50,328 In the suicide note that he wrote to his children, 570 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,665 Um, he apologized for the act. 571 00:34:53,759 --> 00:34:56,576 And so, when someone apologizes for something, 572 00:34:56,670 --> 00:34:59,721 That connotes an understanding of wrongfulness of the behavior. 573 00:35:01,266 --> 00:35:04,935 He also indicated that he could not look at her 574 00:35:05,086 --> 00:35:07,604 In the eyes, while he was, um, strangling her. 575 00:35:09,833 --> 00:35:11,182 Matthew: And how is that significant to you? 576 00:35:11,276 --> 00:35:16,171 Um, to me, that's another indication of the discomfort 577 00:35:16,264 --> 00:35:19,616 With an act that you know is wrong while you're engaging in it. 578 00:35:19,767 --> 00:35:21,785 And so, again, that, um... 579 00:35:22,012 --> 00:35:24,512 Shows an understanding or an appreciation 580 00:35:24,606 --> 00:35:26,456 Um, that the act was wrong. 581 00:35:27,868 --> 00:35:30,352 Uh, thank you. Nothing further. 582 00:35:30,370 --> 00:35:32,796 -Judge: Cross examination. -Benjamin: Thank you. 583 00:35:33,023 --> 00:35:36,466 From your report and from the direct examination, 584 00:35:36,693 --> 00:35:38,468 It sounded to me, like you were saying 585 00:35:39,363 --> 00:35:42,046 That mr. Winchester 586 00:35:42,141 --> 00:35:47,960 Exhibited intentional goal-directed behavior. 587 00:35:47,980 --> 00:35:52,649 In that, he wrote a note and he indicated that he couldn't 588 00:35:52,876 --> 00:35:56,878 Look into the eyes. Of mrs. Winchester, 589 00:35:56,971 --> 00:35:59,656 Kimberly: I would say, by intentional, I mean, doing it on purpose. 590 00:35:59,807 --> 00:36:03,160 And then, by goal-directed, I mean, in the service of achieving a goal. 591 00:36:03,311 --> 00:36:04,569 A specific goal. 592 00:36:04,721 --> 00:36:06,571 -Benjamin: Okay, so with intent? -Right. 593 00:36:06,665 --> 00:36:07,497 Benjamin: Okay. 594 00:36:09,059 --> 00:36:11,242 And just as a... As a basic question, right, 595 00:36:11,395 --> 00:36:13,895 That I probably should have started with, 596 00:36:13,914 --> 00:36:16,840 Uh, people with severe mental disorders 597 00:36:17,067 --> 00:36:19,158 Can act with intentionality, right? 598 00:36:19,178 --> 00:36:20,585 Kimberly: Yes. 599 00:36:20,737 --> 00:36:23,013 Benjamin: People who are guilty except insane, 600 00:36:24,758 --> 00:36:27,309 Can still act with intentionality. Correct? 601 00:36:31,431 --> 00:36:32,747 Yes. 602 00:36:32,766 --> 00:36:34,340 Benjamin: Okay. 603 00:36:34,359 --> 00:36:35,358 I don't have further questions. 604 00:36:39,923 --> 00:36:43,849 Benjamin: Ultimately, if a jury wants to convict mike of murder, 605 00:36:43,944 --> 00:36:47,537 There will be enough evidence to convict him of murder. 606 00:36:47,689 --> 00:36:51,266 So, in many ways, this is a case that boils down 607 00:36:51,359 --> 00:36:53,284 To what do they think about mike? 608 00:36:53,437 --> 00:36:55,270 And, you know, what do they think about the defense? 609 00:36:55,288 --> 00:36:57,939 Do they like the defense? Do they like mike? 610 00:36:58,032 --> 00:37:01,609 Do they want to let him go? 611 00:37:01,628 --> 00:37:04,054 Mike: Next week, there will be a verdict and whatever happens, 612 00:37:04,281 --> 00:37:05,555 You know, I've got to be prepared 613 00:37:05,782 --> 00:37:07,724 That I can be taken into custody. 614 00:37:07,951 --> 00:37:10,727 And you know, that's very real right now. 615 00:37:30,156 --> 00:37:32,991 Benjamin: Every closing argument I feel, is critical. 616 00:37:33,143 --> 00:37:35,401 I think the key point for us is that, 617 00:37:35,420 --> 00:37:37,587 If mike did not have a brain infection, 618 00:37:37,739 --> 00:37:40,674 If he didn't get sick, we wouldn't be here. 619 00:37:44,912 --> 00:37:47,580 There is no question that the defendant 620 00:37:47,599 --> 00:37:50,249 Intentionally caused the death of his wife. 621 00:37:50,269 --> 00:37:52,102 He actually tried to kill her multiple times. 622 00:37:54,347 --> 00:37:55,830 Ladies and gentlemen, at the end of the day, 623 00:37:55,923 --> 00:38:01,111 This case is about annie winchester. 624 00:38:01,262 --> 00:38:03,697 It's about a woman who, even though her days were numbered, 625 00:38:05,342 --> 00:38:07,534 She had hopes and dreams and aspirations. 626 00:38:09,679 --> 00:38:12,030 Annie winchester ended up dead on the floor, 627 00:38:12,124 --> 00:38:14,516 Face down in her bedroom 628 00:38:14,609 --> 00:38:16,459 With an enormous gash wound to her neck, 629 00:38:16,611 --> 00:38:17,919 Having been strangled by her partner. 630 00:38:19,947 --> 00:38:21,298 Is the defense really suggesting to you 631 00:38:21,525 --> 00:38:23,541 That he did not intend to kill her? 632 00:38:23,693 --> 00:38:25,802 That his conscious objective was not to cause her death? 633 00:38:27,213 --> 00:38:30,048 There is no question about his intent. 634 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,124 Michael winchester intentionally caused her death 635 00:38:32,218 --> 00:38:34,960 And that's been proven to you, beyond reasonable doubt. 636 00:38:34,980 --> 00:38:37,205 So, we ask that you find a verdict of guilty 637 00:38:37,298 --> 00:38:38,648 As to murder in the second degree. 638 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:39,733 Thank you. 639 00:38:47,326 --> 00:38:49,117 I think you all agree. 640 00:38:51,221 --> 00:38:56,833 That in this tragic case, we would not be here 641 00:38:56,984 --> 00:39:02,505 If mike winchester didn't get a brain illness in December of 2018. 642 00:39:05,660 --> 00:39:06,926 Mike winchester, 643 00:39:08,996 --> 00:39:12,740 The person that you've heard three weeks about, 644 00:39:12,834 --> 00:39:16,335 Is that person thinking rationally? 645 00:39:16,355 --> 00:39:21,674 Is that person thinking with the same cognitive ability 646 00:39:21,693 --> 00:39:24,085 That the state is suggesting? 647 00:39:24,104 --> 00:39:27,346 Or is his cognitive ability so distorted 648 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:33,352 That he cannot make these decisions in any reasonable manner? 649 00:39:33,372 --> 00:39:36,931 The only thing that makes sense is that he was insane at the time. 650 00:39:36,950 --> 00:39:38,166 That is the only thing. 651 00:39:40,194 --> 00:39:43,605 And if you agree with the defense, 652 00:39:43,698 --> 00:39:48,134 I would suggest to you that mr. Winchester was guilty except for insanity. 653 00:39:50,037 --> 00:39:51,012 Thank you. 654 00:40:06,405 --> 00:40:08,888 (dramatic music playing) 655 00:40:08,982 --> 00:40:10,131 Benjamin: We have a verdict. 656 00:40:10,224 --> 00:40:11,557 -Michael: Oh, jeez. -Benjamin: Yeah. 657 00:40:11,576 --> 00:40:14,819 Um, we have an hour to get there. So, 10:30. 658 00:40:14,913 --> 00:40:16,204 -No problem. -Okay. 659 00:40:17,474 --> 00:40:18,564 This doesn't feel real right now. 660 00:40:18,658 --> 00:40:19,582 I know, just... 661 00:40:21,327 --> 00:40:23,645 Look at me. Look at me. 662 00:40:23,738 --> 00:40:25,839 It's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay, blake. It's gonna be okay. 663 00:40:33,432 --> 00:40:35,339 Woman: All rise. 664 00:40:35,434 --> 00:40:37,434 Judge: Good morning, everyone. 665 00:40:37,661 --> 00:40:39,510 Thank you. We are on the record in the matter of 666 00:40:39,604 --> 00:40:43,756 State versus winchester, outside the presence of the jury. 667 00:40:43,850 --> 00:40:46,109 Counsel, I understand the jury has a verdict. Are we ready? 668 00:40:47,279 --> 00:40:48,236 Man: Yes, your honor. 669 00:40:49,448 --> 00:40:50,780 Woman: All rise for the jury. 670 00:40:53,618 --> 00:40:55,076 Jury member: Thank you, everyone, please be seated. 671 00:41:01,108 --> 00:41:02,700 Judge: Has the jury reached a verdict? 672 00:41:02,852 --> 00:41:03,626 Woman: Yes. 673 00:41:05,371 --> 00:41:06,629 Man: Winchester please rise. 674 00:41:08,616 --> 00:41:10,525 Jury member: We, the jury, being duly impaneled 675 00:41:10,618 --> 00:41:12,618 And sworn in the above entitled matter, 676 00:41:12,712 --> 00:41:14,545 Do hereby find the defendant 677 00:41:14,698 --> 00:41:17,807 Was michael winchester guilty except for insanity 678 00:41:18,034 --> 00:41:20,810 At the time he caused the death of heidi anne winchester? 679 00:41:23,540 --> 00:41:24,872 Answer, yes. 680 00:41:24,966 --> 00:41:26,274 -(crowd claps) -on the third page. 681 00:41:28,228 --> 00:41:30,653 On the third page check only one box. 682 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,065 The box, manslaughter, guilty except for insanity 683 00:41:34,217 --> 00:41:37,068 Is checked signed by the preceding juror. 684 00:41:37,220 --> 00:41:39,245 -(sobbing) -will either party like to pull t he jurors? 685 00:41:43,243 --> 00:41:45,126 (blake sobbing) 686 00:41:58,258 --> 00:42:00,742 (sobbing) 687 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,261 Mike: I'm just so happy. I mean, I don't have to... 688 00:42:03,413 --> 00:42:04,771 I can walk out of here with my boys. 689 00:42:06,358 --> 00:42:09,417 I'm just... I'm just really... 690 00:42:09,435 --> 00:42:11,611 I'm glad, but I'm just so much more relieved. 691 00:42:14,199 --> 00:42:16,849 Mike: We've got the best possible outcome that could have happened. 692 00:42:16,868 --> 00:42:19,944 I get to be with my family and the people that love me. 693 00:42:20,096 --> 00:42:22,372 Blake: Justice was served. I'm in shock. 694 00:42:22,523 --> 00:42:24,782 But I'm so happy this nightmare is over. 695 00:42:24,934 --> 00:42:26,167 Michael jr: Ah, this is the best case scenario. 696 00:42:27,620 --> 00:42:29,295 So grateful for everybody. (sniffles) 697 00:42:31,791 --> 00:42:32,674 Wow! 698 00:42:34,127 --> 00:42:35,534 Hey, team winchester, right? 699 00:42:35,554 --> 00:42:36,553 Come on.