1 00:00:03,500 --> 00:00:06,166 [Laura LeDrew] It's one of the most horrific scenes 2 00:00:06,166 --> 00:00:07,634 I think I've ever walked into. 3 00:00:08,634 --> 00:00:10,600 There's missing body parts. 4 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:12,867 There was the axe mark on her head. 5 00:00:12,867 --> 00:00:13,900 Who did this? 6 00:00:14,734 --> 00:00:16,867 Harry did have a lot of enemies in town. 7 00:00:16,867 --> 00:00:19,166 [Laura] The neighbor could hear loud fights 8 00:00:19,166 --> 00:00:21,266 and screaming matches between the two of them. 9 00:00:21,266 --> 00:00:23,166 [Stan McCutchin] While we're searching the property... 10 00:00:23,166 --> 00:00:26,500 We see a truck. We shovel some of the snow away. 11 00:00:26,500 --> 00:00:28,533 And there in the bed of the truck 12 00:00:28,533 --> 00:00:30,000 is a bloody body. 13 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:30,734 is a bloody body. 14 00:00:30,734 --> 00:00:32,367 He's frozen solid. 15 00:00:32,367 --> 00:00:34,867 [John O'Donovan] If the bodies thaw too quickly, 16 00:00:34,867 --> 00:00:37,000 valuable evidence can be lost. 17 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:38,867 [Laura] I'm very worried that there is 18 00:00:38,867 --> 00:00:41,367 a deranged killer on the loose at this point. 19 00:00:41,367 --> 00:00:43,734 Things like this don't happen in Ethelbert. 20 00:00:44,500 --> 00:00:47,000 [narrator] Every day in North America, 21 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,600 dozens of people are murdered. 22 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,100 The key to solving the toughest of these homicides 23 00:00:52,100 --> 00:00:55,333 lies in the final 24 hours of the victim's life. 24 00:00:56,100 --> 00:00:57,734 To crack the case, 25 00:00:57,734 --> 00:01:00,000 detectives must reconstruct that critical timeline. 26 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:01,367 detectives must reconstruct that critical timeline. 27 00:01:01,367 --> 00:01:04,266 The minutes and hours containing evidence 28 00:01:04,266 --> 00:01:06,500 that can help unlock the mystery 29 00:01:06,500 --> 00:01:08,266 and catch the killer. 30 00:01:15,734 --> 00:01:19,367 Stretching 5,500 miles across North America, 31 00:01:19,367 --> 00:01:21,734 the US/Canadian international border 32 00:01:21,734 --> 00:01:24,734 is the longest and most peaceful in the world. 33 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:27,000 And right in the middle 34 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,166 lies tiny Ethelbert, Manitoba. 35 00:01:29,166 --> 00:01:30,000 300 residents living 300 miles north of Minnesota. 36 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,467 300 residents living 300 miles north of Minnesota. 37 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,166 Ethelbert is extremely rural. 38 00:01:37,166 --> 00:01:41,000 It is the heart of the prairies. 39 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,500 [Laura] The people tend to all know who each other are, 40 00:01:43,500 --> 00:01:45,000 and it's places that are passed down 41 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:46,166 from family to family, 42 00:01:46,166 --> 00:01:48,867 so there's lots of related people within the community. 43 00:01:48,867 --> 00:01:51,700 There's a lot of beef industry there. 44 00:01:51,700 --> 00:01:53,367 There's grain farming. 45 00:01:54,967 --> 00:01:57,500 There's also quite a bit of tourism in the area 46 00:01:57,500 --> 00:02:00,000 because of the fishing and the hunting. 47 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:01,000 because of the fishing and the hunting. 48 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,867 There aren't a lot of problems or disputes 49 00:02:03,867 --> 00:02:06,166 that become a criminal issue. 50 00:02:07,500 --> 00:02:09,734 [narrator] On most winter days in Ethelbert, 51 00:02:09,734 --> 00:02:12,500 the temperature stays well below freezing, 52 00:02:12,500 --> 00:02:14,266 and nothing much happens. 53 00:02:14,867 --> 00:02:17,467 But January 19th, 2013 54 00:02:17,467 --> 00:02:19,367 is not like most winter days. 55 00:02:19,367 --> 00:02:21,066 [phone ringing] 56 00:02:21,066 --> 00:02:23,600 [Stan] The Ethelbert mayor called the RCMP detachment 57 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,700 to check in on the wellbeing of one of his people. 58 00:02:26,700 --> 00:02:29,700 [narrator] Royal Canadian Mounted Police Sergeant 59 00:02:29,700 --> 00:02:30,000 Laura LeDrew responds to the call. 60 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:31,800 Laura LeDrew responds to the call. 61 00:02:32,533 --> 00:02:35,000 [Laura] The mayor asked our team 62 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:36,867 for a report of a wellbeing check 63 00:02:36,867 --> 00:02:39,433 on a resident of Ethelbert, Elsie Steppa, 64 00:02:40,266 --> 00:02:41,734 who is an elderly lady. 65 00:02:41,734 --> 00:02:44,634 It's been four weeks since anyone has seen her. 66 00:02:45,500 --> 00:02:47,166 [Stan] There's been no smoke 67 00:02:47,166 --> 00:02:48,867 or heat coming out of the chimney. 68 00:02:48,867 --> 00:02:51,867 And there are two dogs known to be in that house 69 00:02:51,867 --> 00:02:54,233 but they haven't been seen either in the last two weeks. 70 00:02:55,467 --> 00:02:57,000 [Laura] The mayor was calling to see 71 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:58,166 if someone could possibly 72 00:02:58,166 --> 00:02:59,634 go check on her at her residence. 73 00:03:02,500 --> 00:03:04,867 [John] This is a brutally cold morning. 74 00:03:04,867 --> 00:03:07,500 The temperature is minus 40 degrees. 75 00:03:07,500 --> 00:03:09,367 [narrator] At that temperature, 76 00:03:09,367 --> 00:03:11,900 exposed skin can freeze in minutes. 77 00:03:14,266 --> 00:03:16,166 Sergeant LeDrew and a team of Mounties 78 00:03:16,166 --> 00:03:17,734 arrive at the Steppa farmhouse. 79 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:21,734 [Laura] There's no sign 80 00:03:21,734 --> 00:03:23,333 of anything happening. 81 00:03:25,166 --> 00:03:27,166 We open the door. It's slightly ajar, 82 00:03:27,166 --> 00:03:29,500 which seems suspicious. 83 00:03:29,500 --> 00:03:30,000 So at this point we don't know what we're going into. 84 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,533 So at this point we don't know what we're going into. 85 00:03:34,066 --> 00:03:36,266 In the house, it's dark. 86 00:03:36,266 --> 00:03:39,233 There's no electricity. It's very, very, very cold. 87 00:03:39,700 --> 00:03:42,367 There's no sign of anyone. 88 00:03:42,367 --> 00:03:46,066 At first I don't actually know what to think. 89 00:03:46,066 --> 00:03:48,734 Never seen a residence that looked like this. 90 00:03:49,467 --> 00:03:52,266 The house is completely full. 91 00:03:52,734 --> 00:03:54,166 It's a hoarder's house. 92 00:03:55,100 --> 00:03:57,333 Items stacked every which way. 93 00:03:58,500 --> 00:04:00,000 There are stacks of DVD players, 94 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,100 There are stacks of DVD players, 95 00:04:01,100 --> 00:04:04,500 VCR players and cords hanging everywhere, 96 00:04:04,500 --> 00:04:06,734 batteries everywhere. 97 00:04:06,734 --> 00:04:08,867 In the living room of Elsie's house 98 00:04:08,867 --> 00:04:10,734 there's a makeshift altar 99 00:04:10,734 --> 00:04:13,734 and a whole load of religious artefacts. 100 00:04:17,734 --> 00:04:20,266 [Laura] We don't know where Elsie Steppa is. 101 00:04:20,266 --> 00:04:21,734 That's our main concern right now. 102 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,600 We see some blood, a couple of droplets here and there, 103 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:28,467 which is obviously never a good thing. 104 00:04:28,467 --> 00:04:30,000 And we make our way to this door that's closed... 105 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,166 And we make our way to this door that's closed... 106 00:04:32,166 --> 00:04:33,266 [dogs barking] 107 00:04:33,266 --> 00:04:35,467 [Laura] ...where we can hear the dogs barking. 108 00:04:35,467 --> 00:04:37,100 We try to open the door. 109 00:04:38,266 --> 00:04:40,166 It was jammed on something. 110 00:04:40,166 --> 00:04:42,533 Sp we had to really force our way in. 111 00:04:43,467 --> 00:04:45,000 [narrator] Officers need to know if anyone is 112 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,600 behind the door with dogs. 113 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,467 One of the members found a hammer, 114 00:04:50,467 --> 00:04:51,600 and he was going to use the hammer 115 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,100 to sort of bash the door to get us in. 116 00:04:55,266 --> 00:04:57,967 And that's when we noticed on the head of the hammer was 117 00:04:57,967 --> 00:05:00,000 some grey hairs, looked like human hairs, and blood. 118 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:01,166 some grey hairs, looked like human hairs, and blood. 119 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,367 [dogs continue barking] 120 00:05:04,367 --> 00:05:07,066 [Laura] We were able to finally get the door open. 121 00:05:08,166 --> 00:05:10,000 We notice there's another door 122 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,166 that looks to be made from a chain-link fence. 123 00:05:14,367 --> 00:05:15,600 We push the door open 124 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,066 and these two dogs come running out 125 00:05:18,066 --> 00:05:19,900 and they just ran outside. 126 00:05:21,367 --> 00:05:22,800 That was a moment of terror. 127 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:25,500 When we get into the room, 128 00:05:25,500 --> 00:05:28,867 it's one of the most horrific scenes 129 00:05:28,867 --> 00:05:30,000 I think I've ever walked into. 130 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:30,533 I think I've ever walked into. 131 00:05:32,166 --> 00:05:34,734 There is a body lying on the floor, 132 00:05:35,266 --> 00:05:36,700 face down. 133 00:05:36,700 --> 00:05:39,166 I'm making an assumption at this point 134 00:05:39,166 --> 00:05:40,734 that it is Elsie Steppa. 135 00:05:42,533 --> 00:05:45,533 The injuries to the head were 136 00:05:45,533 --> 00:05:47,433 something I've never seen before. 137 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:50,867 There's an ice axe 138 00:05:50,867 --> 00:05:53,166 located under her head. 139 00:05:53,166 --> 00:05:56,100 There is a hole in the back of the head. 140 00:05:56,100 --> 00:05:59,867 There was multiple cracks on the skull. 141 00:05:59,867 --> 00:06:00,000 She had her neck completely split. 142 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,233 She had her neck completely split. 143 00:06:04,266 --> 00:06:06,266 There's no hair on the head. 144 00:06:06,266 --> 00:06:07,734 There's an ear missing. 145 00:06:07,734 --> 00:06:10,000 There is half of an arm missing 146 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,900 and another complete arm missing. 147 00:06:14,166 --> 00:06:16,367 I see a tiny drywall saw 148 00:06:16,367 --> 00:06:17,600 which are very, very, very sharp. 149 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,166 And that is covered in blood as well. 150 00:06:20,166 --> 00:06:22,600 The hammer that we just about used, 151 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:24,433 that's a weapon. 152 00:06:25,734 --> 00:06:28,100 I can see the hole that exactly would match 153 00:06:28,100 --> 00:06:30,000 the size of the hole in the back of her head. 154 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:30,433 the size of the hole in the back of her head. 155 00:06:32,700 --> 00:06:35,266 [John] The officers are able to find her identification 156 00:06:35,266 --> 00:06:37,100 in her purse in the room, 157 00:06:37,100 --> 00:06:40,467 and there's no doubt about it that this is Elsie Steppa. 158 00:06:42,166 --> 00:06:44,166 [narrator] 81-year-old Elsie Steppa 159 00:06:44,166 --> 00:06:46,500 who lived peacefully under Ethelbert Farm 160 00:06:46,500 --> 00:06:47,700 most of her life 161 00:06:47,700 --> 00:06:50,100 is now the victim of a brutal homicide. 162 00:06:50,867 --> 00:06:52,500 [Laura] She's completely frozen, 163 00:06:52,500 --> 00:06:55,533 and that's obviously due to the temperatures outside. 164 00:06:55,533 --> 00:06:58,233 But she's inside and there's no heat in that house. 165 00:06:59,734 --> 00:07:00,000 I've never seen anything like this. 166 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,433 I've never seen anything like this. 167 00:07:03,367 --> 00:07:07,166 And now we have to start the hard work 168 00:07:07,166 --> 00:07:09,166 of figuring out what happened. 169 00:07:11,967 --> 00:07:14,100 [narrator] Sergeant LeDrew calls in the Mounties experts 170 00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:15,634 to help her sift through the evidence. 171 00:07:17,166 --> 00:07:20,166 Our forensics team begins to bag all of the items. 172 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,166 I'm looking through the room with all of the clothing, 173 00:07:24,166 --> 00:07:27,600 and most of the clothing is old, tattered. 174 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,000 But I do see kind of a sportier ski jacket. 175 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,634 But I do see kind of a sportier ski jacket. 176 00:07:31,634 --> 00:07:35,000 It stands out because it's not underneath this pile. 177 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:36,467 It's sort of on top, 178 00:07:36,467 --> 00:07:39,533 and potentially recently put there. 179 00:07:40,266 --> 00:07:41,634 We seize that as well. 180 00:07:45,367 --> 00:07:48,266 [narrator] Based on what investigators have seen so far 181 00:07:48,266 --> 00:07:50,500 they piece together an initial sequence 182 00:07:50,500 --> 00:07:52,634 of what may have happened to Elsie Steppa. 183 00:07:54,967 --> 00:07:56,967 In a small community like Ethelbert, 184 00:07:56,967 --> 00:08:00,000 most people probably don't lock their doors. 185 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:00,166 most people probably don't lock their doors. 186 00:08:00,166 --> 00:08:02,900 Is it someone that she might know and let in the house? 187 00:08:03,867 --> 00:08:05,533 At this point I'm now thinking 188 00:08:05,533 --> 00:08:08,433 maybe she was attacked in the living room. 189 00:08:11,266 --> 00:08:14,367 Did they drag her, then, into the bedroom, 190 00:08:14,367 --> 00:08:16,700 and then hit her in the back of the head 191 00:08:16,700 --> 00:08:18,000 with the hammer 192 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,533 and then slit her throat with the drywall saw? 193 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,367 And I'm staring at her, the missing limbs, 194 00:08:25,367 --> 00:08:27,333 and I'm thinking the worst things possible. 195 00:08:29,100 --> 00:08:30,000 I'm very worried that there is 196 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:30,467 I'm very worried that there is 197 00:08:30,467 --> 00:08:32,533 a deranged killer on the loose at this point. 198 00:08:36,367 --> 00:08:38,600 Elsie's body is taken to the morgue 199 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,266 where her body is allowed to thaw out 200 00:08:42,266 --> 00:08:45,166 under controlled situation. 201 00:08:45,166 --> 00:08:46,967 [narrator] To solve the mystery 202 00:08:46,967 --> 00:08:48,734 of Elsie Steppa's murder, 203 00:08:48,734 --> 00:08:52,734 detectives need to reconstruct the last 24 hours of her life. 204 00:08:53,867 --> 00:08:58,734 [Stan] We started to talk to everybody in Ethelbert. 205 00:08:58,734 --> 00:09:00,000 [narrator] RCMP constable Stan McCutchin 206 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,166 [narrator] RCMP constable Stan McCutchin 207 00:09:02,166 --> 00:09:03,900 joins the investigation. 208 00:09:04,867 --> 00:09:07,867 Several people in Ethelbert report seeing her 209 00:09:07,867 --> 00:09:09,600 on December 22nd, 210 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,467 maybe four weeks before her body was found, 211 00:09:12,467 --> 00:09:15,533 going to the store and buying food. 212 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,867 [Laura] I speak with the local store owner 213 00:09:18,867 --> 00:09:20,867 of the one shop in town, 214 00:09:20,867 --> 00:09:22,367 and he confirms that 215 00:09:22,367 --> 00:09:25,100 she hasn't been here for about four weeks. 216 00:09:25,100 --> 00:09:28,266 [narrator] Investigators estimate that Elsie was killed 217 00:09:28,266 --> 00:09:30,000 some time between December 22nd 218 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:30,266 some time between December 22nd 219 00:09:30,266 --> 00:09:33,367 when she was last seen buying groceries 220 00:09:33,367 --> 00:09:36,634 and January 19th when her body was discovered. 221 00:09:37,867 --> 00:09:39,467 Until her body thaws 222 00:09:39,467 --> 00:09:41,734 and the coroner can confirm her time of death, 223 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,066 investigators gather background on Elsie 224 00:09:45,066 --> 00:09:47,634 to find out who may have wanted to hurt her. 225 00:09:51,467 --> 00:09:54,000 [narrator] One concerned neighbor Natalie Panto 226 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,600 goes on to describe Elsie as a recluse, 227 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,000 someone who doesn't really leave her house. 228 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:00,367 someone who doesn't really leave her house. 229 00:10:00,367 --> 00:10:02,367 Friendly and pleasant enough. 230 00:10:02,367 --> 00:10:05,600 [Stan] And she tells us Elsie has never been married 231 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:07,967 and she has no children. 232 00:10:07,967 --> 00:10:10,700 And around town, she's known as the cat lady, 233 00:10:10,700 --> 00:10:14,266 because at one point in the not-too-distant past 234 00:10:14,266 --> 00:10:18,600 she had 20 cats living in her house. 235 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:20,100 [narrator] The sergeant asks Natalie 236 00:10:20,100 --> 00:10:22,634 if she can think of anyone who might want to harm Elsie. 237 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,500 [Laura] Natalie mentions that 238 00:10:25,500 --> 00:10:28,467 Elsie actually does live with her nephew, 239 00:10:28,467 --> 00:10:30,000 a man by the name of Harry Jones. 240 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:30,333 a man by the name of Harry Jones. 241 00:10:31,066 --> 00:10:33,066 About 50 years old. 242 00:10:33,066 --> 00:10:34,700 [Stan] According to Natalie, 243 00:10:34,700 --> 00:10:36,734 Jones is well-known in the community 244 00:10:36,734 --> 00:10:39,266 and generally disliked. 245 00:10:39,266 --> 00:10:41,533 [John] Natalie describes Jones as 246 00:10:41,533 --> 00:10:43,166 aggressive and impulsive. 247 00:10:44,166 --> 00:10:47,166 [Laura] I learn that he suffers from schizophrenia 248 00:10:47,166 --> 00:10:48,734 and that he's delusional. 249 00:10:49,634 --> 00:10:52,467 He has been banned from going to any church 250 00:10:52,467 --> 00:10:54,367 because he causes disturbances 251 00:10:54,367 --> 00:10:57,367 and questions the priest in the middle of the services 252 00:10:57,367 --> 00:10:59,634 and tends to be very disruptive. 253 00:11:01,066 --> 00:11:03,700 [Stan] Elsie and Harry live in a house without heat 254 00:11:03,700 --> 00:11:06,166 and they live in a house without running water. 255 00:11:06,166 --> 00:11:08,266 Neither one of them has a job 256 00:11:08,266 --> 00:11:12,533 and they just manage to scrape by. 257 00:11:16,367 --> 00:11:19,700 [Laura] The neighbor also speaks about loud fights. 258 00:11:19,700 --> 00:11:23,467 She could hear loud fights and screaming matches between the two of them. 259 00:11:23,467 --> 00:11:25,266 [narrator] The neighbor reports hearing 260 00:11:25,266 --> 00:11:28,367 a vicious argument not long before she was murdered. 261 00:11:28,367 --> 00:11:30,000 [Stan] Harry wanted Elsie to get rid of all of her cats, 262 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:31,000 [Stan] Harry wanted Elsie to get rid of all of her cats, 263 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:33,166 and he wanted to keep his two dogs 264 00:11:33,166 --> 00:11:34,867 that were very aggressive 265 00:11:34,867 --> 00:11:36,467 and not well-liked in the community, 266 00:11:36,467 --> 00:11:39,800 and that the two of them would argue loudly about this. 267 00:11:41,266 --> 00:11:43,734 [Laura] So, Harry ends up winning that argument 268 00:11:43,734 --> 00:11:47,533 and the cats are taken away by animal protection units. 269 00:11:49,166 --> 00:11:51,166 [narrator] Elsie's nephew Harry Jones 270 00:11:51,166 --> 00:11:54,367 is the RCMP's number-one suspect. 271 00:11:54,367 --> 00:11:57,100 [Laura] Natalie then says she hasn't seen Harry 272 00:11:57,100 --> 00:11:59,367 for probably about four weeks, 273 00:11:59,367 --> 00:12:00,000 and Elsie about the same amount of time. 274 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,367 and Elsie about the same amount of time. 275 00:12:02,367 --> 00:12:05,266 And she also hasn't seen the dogs 276 00:12:05,266 --> 00:12:07,467 running around outside. 277 00:12:07,467 --> 00:12:09,467 [Stan] We start looking for Harry Jones immediately. 278 00:12:09,467 --> 00:12:12,700 We wanna find him, we wanna arrest him. 279 00:12:12,700 --> 00:12:15,266 [Laura] Maybe Harry Jones is our suspect. 280 00:12:15,266 --> 00:12:18,266 Maybe he's the one who killed his aunt. 281 00:12:23,266 --> 00:12:25,266 [narrator] Just hours after Canadian police 282 00:12:25,266 --> 00:12:28,266 in Manitoba find 81-year-old Elsie Steppa 283 00:12:28,266 --> 00:12:31,166 murdered and frozen in her hoarder home, 284 00:12:31,166 --> 00:12:34,166 Elsie's cantankerous 50-year-old nephew 285 00:12:34,166 --> 00:12:36,800 Harry Jones becomes the number-one suspect. 286 00:12:37,634 --> 00:12:39,533 [Stan] We are in that house, 287 00:12:39,533 --> 00:12:41,266 and at no time does Harry Jones show up 288 00:12:41,266 --> 00:12:42,700 to ask us what we are doing. 289 00:12:42,700 --> 00:12:46,367 But investigators keep digging into his background. 290 00:12:46,367 --> 00:12:48,233 They need to find out more about him. 291 00:12:49,533 --> 00:12:50,948 [Stan] We know that Elsie lives with Harry Jones. 292 00:12:50,948 --> 00:12:51,533 [Stan] We know that Elsie lives with Harry Jones. 293 00:12:52,700 --> 00:12:54,533 He has mental health issues 294 00:12:54,533 --> 00:12:57,600 and he's been hostile to his aunt Elsie. 295 00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,367 [narrator] Police fan out, 296 00:12:59,367 --> 00:13:01,333 searching for Elsie's last known whereabouts. 297 00:13:02,367 --> 00:13:04,967 We start to search the town of Ethelbert. 298 00:13:04,967 --> 00:13:07,467 [Stan] There's no sign of Harry there. 299 00:13:08,166 --> 00:13:10,734 We hear the same story repeatedly, 300 00:13:10,734 --> 00:13:12,266 that Harry is a thief. 301 00:13:12,266 --> 00:13:14,734 He's a petty thief, that's how he survives. 302 00:13:15,634 --> 00:13:17,634 It's not just stealing food. 303 00:13:17,634 --> 00:13:20,467 He's been caught breaking into 304 00:13:20,467 --> 00:13:20,948 some of the closed churches in the area 305 00:13:20,948 --> 00:13:22,867 some of the closed churches in the area 306 00:13:22,867 --> 00:13:24,367 and stealing things. 307 00:13:24,367 --> 00:13:28,467 And basically nobody trusts him around the property. 308 00:13:28,467 --> 00:13:30,166 Nobody wants him around them. 309 00:13:31,367 --> 00:13:33,867 [Laura] All these religious items at the house, 310 00:13:33,867 --> 00:13:36,533 these items belong to local community members 311 00:13:36,533 --> 00:13:38,467 and they were stolen. 312 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,166 [Stan] We run Harry Jones 313 00:13:41,166 --> 00:13:43,533 through the police databases that we have, 314 00:13:43,533 --> 00:13:45,700 and he does not have a criminal record, 315 00:13:45,700 --> 00:13:48,367 which is unusual given everything 316 00:13:48,367 --> 00:13:50,467 we've learned about him. 317 00:13:50,467 --> 00:13:50,948 [phone ringing] 318 00:13:50,948 --> 00:13:52,100 [phone ringing] 319 00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:53,867 [narrator] Then investigators get a tip. 320 00:13:54,867 --> 00:13:56,467 [Stan] We received a phone call 321 00:13:56,467 --> 00:13:58,967 from one of the people in the community 322 00:13:58,967 --> 00:14:01,500 telling us that they had seen Harry Jones 323 00:14:01,500 --> 00:14:03,166 driving his pick-up truck. 324 00:14:03,166 --> 00:14:05,233 It was a silver Chevy Silverado. 325 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:08,533 He was driving around Ethelbert 326 00:14:08,533 --> 00:14:10,500 just three days before we were asked 327 00:14:10,500 --> 00:14:12,467 to go look and see if Elsie was okay. 328 00:14:13,867 --> 00:14:16,533 [narrator] Two days after Elsie's body is discovered, 329 00:14:16,533 --> 00:14:18,367 police return to her property 330 00:14:18,367 --> 00:14:20,533 to make sure they didn't overlook anything 331 00:14:20,533 --> 00:14:20,948 under the junk piles inside her home 332 00:14:20,948 --> 00:14:22,634 under the junk piles inside her home 333 00:14:23,266 --> 00:14:26,166 or in the snow banks outside it. 334 00:14:26,166 --> 00:14:28,066 [Laura] As we're searching the property, 335 00:14:28,066 --> 00:14:29,800 there's a couple of sheds in the backyard, 336 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:30,900 we search those, 337 00:14:31,367 --> 00:14:32,634 and we see a truck 338 00:14:32,634 --> 00:14:34,800 parked quite a ways back behind the house. 339 00:14:35,700 --> 00:14:37,233 Silver Chevy Silverado. 340 00:14:37,867 --> 00:14:39,533 So maybe it's Harry's truck. 341 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,166 Upon approaching it, there's no footprints around this truck 342 00:14:43,166 --> 00:14:45,533 saying that it's been driven recently or anything like that. 343 00:14:46,367 --> 00:14:48,467 The bed of the truck is full of snow 344 00:14:48,467 --> 00:14:50,948 and you can see a couple of wooden pallets, crates in there. 345 00:14:50,948 --> 00:14:51,533 and you can see a couple of wooden pallets, crates in there. 346 00:14:53,367 --> 00:14:54,867 We shovel some of the snow away... 347 00:14:56,367 --> 00:14:58,266 lift the pallets up, 348 00:14:58,266 --> 00:15:02,533 and there in the bed of the truck is a bloody body. 349 00:15:06,100 --> 00:15:08,333 It's the body of Harry Jones. 350 00:15:10,100 --> 00:15:12,233 He's frozen solid to the base of the truck. 351 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,166 He's got numerous head injuries. 352 00:15:17,166 --> 00:15:20,000 I can see that there's pieces of his skull 353 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:20,948 lying in the bed of the truck. 354 00:15:20,948 --> 00:15:21,433 lying in the bed of the truck. 355 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,700 And very similar to the body of Elsie Steppa, 356 00:15:25,700 --> 00:15:27,433 his throat has been slit. 357 00:15:28,166 --> 00:15:29,533 [narrator] It's a double tragedy 358 00:15:29,533 --> 00:15:30,800 for tiny Ethelbert. 359 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,734 The fact that Harry isn't our killer 360 00:15:33,734 --> 00:15:36,367 makes things even more concerning. 361 00:15:36,367 --> 00:15:38,800 'Cause now I have somebody in this community 362 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,533 that's killed two people 363 00:15:40,533 --> 00:15:42,533 and hasn't been found yet. 364 00:15:43,533 --> 00:15:45,166 [narrator] For investigators, 365 00:15:45,166 --> 00:15:47,700 the state of how and where Harry's body is found 366 00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:50,266 tells them a slightly different story 367 00:15:50,266 --> 00:15:50,948 than the story of his aunt's homicide. 368 00:15:50,948 --> 00:15:52,367 than the story of his aunt's homicide. 369 00:15:55,533 --> 00:15:57,600 There's a little bit of blood in the bed of the truck, 370 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,533 but not... not a huge amount. 371 00:16:01,700 --> 00:16:05,734 This would suggest that he had been killed somewhere else 372 00:16:05,734 --> 00:16:06,967 and that then his body 373 00:16:06,967 --> 00:16:09,266 was thrown in the back of the truck. 374 00:16:09,266 --> 00:16:11,467 [Stan] And that then our killer drove back 375 00:16:11,467 --> 00:16:13,433 to Harry and Elsie's house. 376 00:16:15,734 --> 00:16:17,467 [Laura] We start to search 377 00:16:17,467 --> 00:16:19,500 the area right beside the truck, 378 00:16:19,500 --> 00:16:20,948 keeping in mind there is no footprints, 379 00:16:20,948 --> 00:16:21,700 keeping in mind there is no footprints, 380 00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:24,600 there's no activity around this truck at all. 381 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,266 We used a metal detector 382 00:16:26,266 --> 00:16:27,800 and lo and behold, 383 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:32,600 our officer found a large wooden-handled axe. 384 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,867 Typical axe that you'd use for cutting wood. 385 00:16:35,867 --> 00:16:38,100 And there was blood on the head of the axe 386 00:16:38,100 --> 00:16:39,800 which was very consistent with 387 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,634 a couple of the injuries that we could see. 388 00:16:43,867 --> 00:16:45,600 [narrator] Police continue their search 389 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,867 for any other secrets the truck may hold. 390 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,948 They check out the inside of the truck. 391 00:16:50,948 --> 00:16:51,967 They check out the inside of the truck. 392 00:16:51,967 --> 00:16:55,800 They swab the steering wheel for DNA. 393 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,066 [Laura] I notice that there's a paper coffee cup 394 00:16:58,066 --> 00:17:01,066 in the cup holder right beside where the driver would be. 395 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,266 We decided to swab the lid 396 00:17:05,266 --> 00:17:08,066 for any possible DNA of maybe someone 397 00:17:08,066 --> 00:17:09,634 that isn't Harry or Elsie. 398 00:17:10,500 --> 00:17:12,367 [narrator] Investigators send the swabs 399 00:17:12,367 --> 00:17:14,734 and coffee lid to the lab for analysis. 400 00:17:15,867 --> 00:17:18,166 They also bag Harry's remains 401 00:17:18,166 --> 00:17:20,367 to join aunt Elsie's at the morgue. 402 00:17:22,166 --> 00:17:24,166 [John] Just like Elsie Steppa, 403 00:17:24,166 --> 00:17:28,867 it's impossible to determine when Harry Jones was killed 404 00:17:28,867 --> 00:17:31,734 because his body is frozen solid. 405 00:17:32,634 --> 00:17:35,533 If the bodies thaw too quickly, 406 00:17:35,533 --> 00:17:37,500 valuable evidence can be lost. 407 00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:40,367 An approximate time of death, fingerprints, 408 00:17:40,367 --> 00:17:42,700 and even a cause of death can be distorted 409 00:17:42,700 --> 00:17:44,367 and destroyed. 410 00:17:44,367 --> 00:17:46,700 [narrator] On January 24th, 411 00:17:46,700 --> 00:17:48,800 investigators receive autopsy results 412 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:50,867 for both Harry and his aunt Elsie. 413 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,533 [Laura] The medical examiner provided insight 414 00:17:54,533 --> 00:17:56,734 into the injuries on Elsie Steppa. 415 00:17:58,066 --> 00:18:01,166 Her limb from her shoulder down was missing 416 00:18:01,166 --> 00:18:03,233 and her other arm was half missing. 417 00:18:04,166 --> 00:18:07,166 The hair missing on her head, the ear missing, 418 00:18:07,166 --> 00:18:09,100 that was due to the dogs 419 00:18:09,100 --> 00:18:10,867 that were locked in the room with her 420 00:18:10,867 --> 00:18:13,266 with no food. 421 00:18:13,266 --> 00:18:15,533 The hole in the back of her head, 422 00:18:15,533 --> 00:18:16,867 that was from the hammer 423 00:18:16,867 --> 00:18:19,533 that was found with the blood and her hair on it. 424 00:18:21,100 --> 00:18:23,000 She was probably attacked from behind, 425 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,166 hit in the head with the hammer. 426 00:18:25,166 --> 00:18:26,967 Harry Jones's body, 427 00:18:26,967 --> 00:18:28,367 very similar, 428 00:18:28,367 --> 00:18:32,166 very violent head injuries with the skull breaking, 429 00:18:32,166 --> 00:18:35,367 and then the throat, again, slit to the spinal cord. 430 00:18:35,367 --> 00:18:37,467 Who wants these two people dead this badly, 431 00:18:37,467 --> 00:18:40,367 that they would then in addition slit their throats? 432 00:18:41,734 --> 00:18:44,166 [Stan] Harry's skull has been fragmented. 433 00:18:44,166 --> 00:18:46,600 Our medical examiner thinks that this is from 434 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,600 being struck in the head several times 435 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:50,900 with a heavy, blunt object. 436 00:18:53,467 --> 00:18:54,867 [Laura] The autopsy results 437 00:18:54,867 --> 00:18:58,634 shows that they both died of blunt force trauma. 438 00:19:00,166 --> 00:19:01,367 [narrator] The coroner's exam 439 00:19:01,367 --> 00:19:03,900 also helps detectives form a timeline. 440 00:19:04,634 --> 00:19:05,800 [Laura] The homicides occurred 441 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,533 within the previous four weeks. 442 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:10,367 [narrator] It's a finding that matches up with 443 00:19:10,367 --> 00:19:11,800 what locals told detectives 444 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,166 about the last time they saw Elsie. 445 00:19:14,166 --> 00:19:17,600 But it conflicts with what they were told about Harry. 446 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,100 [Laura] The neighbors saw Harry driving his truck 447 00:19:20,100 --> 00:19:20,948 three days before the police were called 448 00:19:20,948 --> 00:19:22,367 three days before the police were called 449 00:19:22,367 --> 00:19:25,000 and the police descended on that house. 450 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,333 This makes no sense to me whatsoever. 451 00:19:28,867 --> 00:19:31,100 [narrator] The mystery deepens when investigators receive 452 00:19:31,100 --> 00:19:33,367 Harry's prints from the morgue. 453 00:19:33,367 --> 00:19:37,266 They were run through our national police system, 454 00:19:37,266 --> 00:19:40,600 and the person that we know as Harry Jones 455 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:45,467 was actually a male by the name of Clarence Harold Thornton. 456 00:19:47,367 --> 00:19:49,800 I learned that Clarence Harold Thornton, 457 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:50,948 AKA Harry Jones, 458 00:19:50,948 --> 00:19:51,533 AKA Harry Jones, 459 00:19:52,700 --> 00:19:55,467 is a wanted criminal from Ontario 460 00:19:55,467 --> 00:19:58,166 for a crime he committed over 20 years ago, 461 00:19:58,166 --> 00:20:01,600 where he stole an item from a big-box store. 462 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,166 He resisted arrest, 463 00:20:03,166 --> 00:20:05,467 causing the police officer to break their arm. 464 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:07,800 [narrator] Police now believe that 465 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,367 the man who used the alias Harry Jones 466 00:20:10,367 --> 00:20:13,066 relocated to Manitoba with his aunt Elsie 467 00:20:13,066 --> 00:20:15,100 to escape charges in Ontario, 468 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:17,634 1,500 miles away. 469 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,600 [Laura] The neighbors tell us that they arrived 470 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:20,948 in Ethelbert about 18 years ago. 471 00:20:20,948 --> 00:20:23,734 in Ethelbert about 18 years ago. 472 00:20:25,100 --> 00:20:28,500 [Stan] We find out that Elsie is originally from Ethelbert 473 00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:30,533 and was born and raised there, and then left, 474 00:20:30,533 --> 00:20:31,800 and when she came back, 475 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,600 she came back with her nephew Harry. 476 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:36,467 The two of them fit into the community. 477 00:20:36,467 --> 00:20:38,800 There didn't seem to be a lot of problems. 478 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,166 But as Harry's mental health issues 479 00:20:41,166 --> 00:20:42,800 became more and more prominent, 480 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,533 there were more and more problems 481 00:20:45,533 --> 00:20:46,900 with the people in the community. 482 00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:50,948 [John] Harry was involved in so many disputes 483 00:20:50,948 --> 00:20:51,600 [John] Harry was involved in so many disputes 484 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,967 with different people within the community, 485 00:20:53,967 --> 00:20:57,967 that Elsie probably got caught up in one of these disputes 486 00:20:57,967 --> 00:21:00,166 and that was the reason that she was killed. 487 00:21:00,166 --> 00:21:03,233 [narrator] But the killer, or killers, of Elsie Steppa 488 00:21:04,100 --> 00:21:06,367 and her nephew Harry remain elusive. 489 00:21:07,967 --> 00:21:09,600 Investigators get a clue 490 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,000 when they receive DNA results 491 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,533 from the swabs taken at Harry's truck. 492 00:21:13,533 --> 00:21:15,500 [Laura] We learned that there is DNA 493 00:21:15,500 --> 00:21:17,800 that's not Harry and it's not Elsie's. 494 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,948 This is a profile of an unknown male. 495 00:21:20,948 --> 00:21:21,100 This is a profile of an unknown male. 496 00:21:21,100 --> 00:21:23,166 [Stan] The DNA that's found in that swab 497 00:21:23,166 --> 00:21:24,533 is compared against 498 00:21:24,533 --> 00:21:28,367 the Canadian national data bank of known offenders 499 00:21:28,367 --> 00:21:30,634 and it cannot be identified. 500 00:21:30,634 --> 00:21:34,533 So at this point we don't know whose DNA that is. 501 00:21:34,533 --> 00:21:36,367 [narrator] It could belong to the person 502 00:21:36,367 --> 00:21:39,066 who killed both Elsie Steppa and her nephew Harry. 503 00:21:39,967 --> 00:21:42,867 So now we begin to focus on Clarence Thornton, 504 00:21:42,867 --> 00:21:44,634 AKA Harry Jones. 505 00:21:45,634 --> 00:21:48,266 Who does he associate with? What does he do? 506 00:21:48,266 --> 00:21:50,948 And who in his life may have wanted to kill him? 507 00:21:50,948 --> 00:21:51,066 And who in his life may have wanted to kill him? 508 00:21:55,533 --> 00:21:57,634 [narrator] After Royal Canadian Mounted Police 509 00:21:57,634 --> 00:21:59,734 find 81-year-old Elsie Steppa 510 00:21:59,734 --> 00:22:01,867 and her 50-year-old nephew Harry 511 00:22:01,867 --> 00:22:03,734 murdered and frozen at Elsie's home 512 00:22:03,734 --> 00:22:06,000 in tiny Ethelbert, Manitoba, 513 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,500 police learn that Harry had a criminal record 514 00:22:08,500 --> 00:22:10,066 and a secret life. 515 00:22:14,066 --> 00:22:17,266 We continued our efforts to talk to everybody in Ethelbert 516 00:22:17,266 --> 00:22:18,533 about Harry's lifestyle. 517 00:22:19,734 --> 00:22:21,166 [John] Neighbors say that 518 00:22:21,166 --> 00:22:23,353 Harry regularly went dumpster diving 519 00:22:23,353 --> 00:22:23,467 Harry regularly went dumpster diving 520 00:22:23,467 --> 00:22:25,467 looking for something to salvage 521 00:22:25,467 --> 00:22:27,533 with an associate named Marcus. 522 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:30,166 [Stan] We find Marcus. 523 00:22:31,166 --> 00:22:32,600 [Laura] He confirms that 524 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,000 Harry and a couple of other associates 525 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,367 were always looking for items to pawn. 526 00:22:37,367 --> 00:22:39,500 Marcus says they never stole anything 527 00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:40,900 from anyone, it was harmless. 528 00:22:42,367 --> 00:22:44,467 Marcus readily admitted, though, 529 00:22:44,467 --> 00:22:47,467 that him and Harry would often have fights 530 00:22:47,467 --> 00:22:50,533 and arguments about who got the most money. 531 00:22:50,533 --> 00:22:51,734 Nothing out of the ordinary. 532 00:22:52,734 --> 00:22:53,353 Now he starts to mention 533 00:22:53,353 --> 00:22:54,266 Now he starts to mention 534 00:22:54,266 --> 00:22:55,734 that there's another person in their group 535 00:22:55,734 --> 00:22:57,900 who Harry had conflict with. 536 00:22:58,634 --> 00:23:00,734 He said, "Harry and I are fine. 537 00:23:00,734 --> 00:23:04,000 But the other guy in our group, not so much." 538 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,467 He mentions the name Payton Saari. 539 00:23:07,467 --> 00:23:09,100 [narrator] Payton, Marcus and Harry 540 00:23:09,100 --> 00:23:10,734 had all scavenged together. 541 00:23:10,734 --> 00:23:12,867 But Marcus says Payton had 542 00:23:12,867 --> 00:23:14,467 a recent falling-out with Harry. 543 00:23:16,867 --> 00:23:18,967 [John] 20-year-old Payton Saari 544 00:23:18,967 --> 00:23:22,333 believed that Harry had stolen his snowboard. 545 00:23:23,867 --> 00:23:27,100 [Laura] Payton was very, very mad according to Marcus. 546 00:23:28,634 --> 00:23:31,266 Is this something that he would kill Harry over? 547 00:23:36,367 --> 00:23:38,367 [Stan] So, we go to Payton's house 548 00:23:38,367 --> 00:23:40,533 and we talk with his family. 549 00:23:40,533 --> 00:23:42,734 And his family tells us 550 00:23:42,734 --> 00:23:44,166 that they haven't noticed 551 00:23:44,166 --> 00:23:47,266 anything unusual about Payton at all 552 00:23:47,266 --> 00:23:48,634 since Harry was murdered. 553 00:23:49,500 --> 00:23:51,367 We start to learn more about Payton. 554 00:23:51,367 --> 00:23:53,266 He's a First Nations male. 555 00:23:53,266 --> 00:23:53,353 We learn that Payton was removed 556 00:23:53,353 --> 00:23:55,166 We learn that Payton was removed 557 00:23:55,166 --> 00:23:58,166 from his original home by child and family services, 558 00:23:58,166 --> 00:24:00,100 and at the age of four, 559 00:24:00,100 --> 00:24:02,066 he was adopted by the Saari family. 560 00:24:02,066 --> 00:24:05,000 [Laura] He's never been charged with anything at all. 561 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,867 It wasn't the most stable upbringing for Payton, 562 00:24:07,867 --> 00:24:09,900 but nothing really that outstanding. 563 00:24:11,634 --> 00:24:13,800 [narrator] After speaking to Payton's family, 564 00:24:14,634 --> 00:24:16,166 the Mounties return later 565 00:24:16,166 --> 00:24:18,367 to speak to Payton himself. 566 00:24:18,367 --> 00:24:20,800 [Stan] Payton tell us that he does know Harry... 567 00:24:22,367 --> 00:24:23,353 and that he and Harry have been 568 00:24:23,353 --> 00:24:24,166 and that he and Harry have been 569 00:24:24,166 --> 00:24:25,967 going through people's garbage, 570 00:24:25,967 --> 00:24:29,066 and they look for items that have some value 571 00:24:29,066 --> 00:24:31,500 so that they can sell them to other people. 572 00:24:31,500 --> 00:24:33,634 He tells us he has nothing against Harry, 573 00:24:33,634 --> 00:24:37,266 and the last time he saw Harry was on December 22nd 574 00:24:37,266 --> 00:24:39,500 when Harry offered to pay him 20 bucks 575 00:24:39,500 --> 00:24:43,000 to help take some stuff to the dump. 576 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,867 He says that the last time he saw Harry 577 00:24:45,867 --> 00:24:47,467 he was alive and well. 578 00:24:48,734 --> 00:24:52,233 [narrator] Investigators press Payton on the dispute over his snowboard. 579 00:24:53,867 --> 00:24:56,000 [John] Payton denied that he ever accused Harry 580 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,066 of stealing his snowboard. 581 00:24:58,066 --> 00:25:01,100 Payton doesn't talk about any disruptions between them. 582 00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:04,367 Their relationship is totally fine according to Payton. 583 00:25:04,367 --> 00:25:06,734 [Stan] At this point, we have no evidence 584 00:25:06,734 --> 00:25:10,000 connecting Payton to Elsie and Harry. 585 00:25:11,266 --> 00:25:14,266 We have a reason to be curious and suspicious. 586 00:25:14,266 --> 00:25:15,967 But that doesn't let us arrest anybody. 587 00:25:15,967 --> 00:25:21,066 So we just step back from Payton 588 00:25:21,066 --> 00:25:23,000 and continue with our investigation. 589 00:25:24,166 --> 00:25:26,066 [Laura] Payton's family did say 590 00:25:26,066 --> 00:25:28,500 Harry had an enemy in town, 591 00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:30,533 a female by the name of Jessica 592 00:25:31,166 --> 00:25:32,967 who made numerous complaints 593 00:25:32,967 --> 00:25:34,734 that he was threatening to kill her. 594 00:25:35,967 --> 00:25:38,367 [narrator] Investigators also learn that 595 00:25:38,367 --> 00:25:40,500 Jessica lives just down the road from the Steppa place, 596 00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:42,734 and she had been there recently. 597 00:25:45,266 --> 00:25:49,166 Now police consider whether Jessica stopped Harry in his tracks, 598 00:25:49,166 --> 00:25:51,867 before Harry could make good on his threat 599 00:25:51,867 --> 00:25:53,233 to do the same to her... 600 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,967 then returned with his body and truck 601 00:25:56,967 --> 00:26:00,333 and killed the loose end witness, Harry's aunt Elsie. 602 00:26:02,266 --> 00:26:04,634 [Laura] So, I'm thinking to myself, 603 00:26:04,634 --> 00:26:07,734 "Okay, well if we have a lady who's claiming that 604 00:26:07,734 --> 00:26:10,000 Harry Jones threatened to kill her, 605 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,533 that's pretty interesting." 606 00:26:15,634 --> 00:26:17,734 [Stan] We met with Jessica, 607 00:26:17,734 --> 00:26:20,266 and she tells us about a confrontation 608 00:26:20,266 --> 00:26:22,467 between her and Harry. 609 00:26:22,467 --> 00:26:23,353 [Laura] Jessica told me that 610 00:26:23,353 --> 00:26:24,867 [Laura] Jessica told me that 611 00:26:24,867 --> 00:26:27,000 she had seen the chain-link fence 612 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,500 locking a bedroom door from the outside, 613 00:26:29,500 --> 00:26:31,100 and she was very concerned 614 00:26:31,100 --> 00:26:33,467 that maybe Harry was locking Elsie in a room. 615 00:26:37,100 --> 00:26:39,634 [narrator] Jessica admits she stopped by Elsie's place 616 00:26:39,634 --> 00:26:41,734 to confront Harry in person. 617 00:26:41,734 --> 00:26:43,867 [Stan] Jessica tells us that 618 00:26:43,867 --> 00:26:46,467 she talked with Harry and Elsie about this. 619 00:26:46,467 --> 00:26:49,367 [Laura] Elsie said that was to keep the dogs in that room. 620 00:26:49,367 --> 00:26:51,967 [Stan] But Harry got upset. 621 00:26:51,967 --> 00:26:53,353 And that's where the death threats came from. 622 00:26:53,353 --> 00:26:54,900 And that's where the death threats came from. 623 00:26:56,066 --> 00:26:57,533 [Laura] She was very fearful. 624 00:26:57,533 --> 00:27:00,500 The incident went from her having a concern 625 00:27:00,500 --> 00:27:03,266 to the point of Harry actually threatening to kill her, 626 00:27:03,266 --> 00:27:06,000 because how dare she accuse him of that? 627 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,634 She left the house 628 00:27:07,634 --> 00:27:10,000 and stayed away from Elsie and Harry. 629 00:27:11,734 --> 00:27:14,367 Jessica went on to say that that's really the last time 630 00:27:14,367 --> 00:27:17,233 she's had any interaction with Harry. 631 00:27:19,166 --> 00:27:22,734 [narrator] Police find Jessica's story credible. 632 00:27:22,734 --> 00:27:23,353 And with no hard evidence tying her to the crime scene, 633 00:27:23,353 --> 00:27:26,166 And with no hard evidence tying her to the crime scene, 634 00:27:26,166 --> 00:27:28,467 they eliminate her as a suspect. 635 00:27:32,734 --> 00:27:35,367 But when investigators look into local rumors... 636 00:27:37,367 --> 00:27:40,066 they find that Jessica's story is not unique. 637 00:27:41,166 --> 00:27:43,166 Harry had a long list of enemies 638 00:27:43,166 --> 00:27:44,533 in tiny Ethelbert. 639 00:27:45,266 --> 00:27:46,634 [Stan] We start to learn that 640 00:27:46,634 --> 00:27:49,166 Jessica is just one of many people 641 00:27:49,166 --> 00:27:51,734 that's been harassed or threatened by Harry Jones. 642 00:27:52,500 --> 00:27:53,353 [John] The investigators learned that 643 00:27:53,353 --> 00:27:54,634 [John] The investigators learned that 644 00:27:54,634 --> 00:27:57,533 Harry Jones had fought particularly with 645 00:27:57,533 --> 00:28:00,500 a man by the name of Reggie Bakay. 646 00:28:00,500 --> 00:28:03,600 [Laura] Reggie was also interviewed by local media 647 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,734 and said that he didn't really think it was strange 648 00:28:05,734 --> 00:28:07,266 that Harry would be murdered, 649 00:28:07,266 --> 00:28:10,734 because Harry was an unlikeable person 650 00:28:10,734 --> 00:28:12,634 who had extremely strong views. 651 00:28:12,634 --> 00:28:14,467 [John] In one report, 652 00:28:14,467 --> 00:28:17,800 Reggie Bakay was actually mocking the investigation. 653 00:28:18,734 --> 00:28:21,066 He's seeking the spotlight 654 00:28:21,066 --> 00:28:23,353 for a very tragic event for a community. 655 00:28:23,353 --> 00:28:23,533 for a very tragic event for a community. 656 00:28:23,533 --> 00:28:25,634 Began wondering, 657 00:28:25,634 --> 00:28:27,266 why is he saying these things? 658 00:28:27,266 --> 00:28:29,066 Why would he do that? 659 00:28:29,066 --> 00:28:31,634 It's not the information, or disinformation, 660 00:28:31,634 --> 00:28:34,734 that these people claim to have that's important. 661 00:28:34,734 --> 00:28:38,467 It's who they are to the victim or the suspect. 662 00:28:38,467 --> 00:28:40,900 Why have they taken such an interest in this case? 663 00:28:41,634 --> 00:28:44,634 Reggie Bakay, his flippant comments 664 00:28:44,634 --> 00:28:47,734 raised suspicions among investigators 665 00:28:47,734 --> 00:28:49,166 that he may be involved 666 00:28:49,166 --> 00:28:51,734 in the murders of Harry and Elsie. 667 00:28:56,700 --> 00:28:58,734 [narrator] Two weeks after the double homicide 668 00:28:58,734 --> 00:29:02,166 of Elsie Steppa and her nephew Harry 669 00:29:02,166 --> 00:29:04,634 in tiny Ethelbert, Manitoba, 670 00:29:05,467 --> 00:29:07,266 Royal Canadian Mounted Police 671 00:29:07,266 --> 00:29:10,266 suspect a man who's been badmouthing Harry in the news. 672 00:29:11,467 --> 00:29:13,166 Reggie Bakay. 673 00:29:13,166 --> 00:29:17,000 Reggie tells us how much he hated Harry, 674 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,266 and how Harry was constantly ranting and raving, 675 00:29:20,266 --> 00:29:22,367 and it got to the point where he ended his friendship 676 00:29:22,367 --> 00:29:24,066 and relationship with him completely. 677 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,967 He does say to me that, 678 00:29:26,967 --> 00:29:29,266 "I really didn't like Harry. I didn't like him at all. 679 00:29:29,266 --> 00:29:30,433 But I would never kill him." 680 00:29:31,467 --> 00:29:33,367 [narrator] Reggie says he would never harm 681 00:29:33,367 --> 00:29:34,634 Harry's aunt Elsie either, 682 00:29:35,967 --> 00:29:37,467 and adds that he was out of town 683 00:29:37,467 --> 00:29:38,800 when they were both killed. 684 00:29:39,500 --> 00:29:41,266 [Laura] Reggie has an alibi. 685 00:29:41,266 --> 00:29:43,900 He was not around during that time period. 686 00:29:44,734 --> 00:29:48,367 [narrator] As with Payton and Jessica before, 687 00:29:48,367 --> 00:29:51,166 investigators strike Reggie Bakay 688 00:29:51,166 --> 00:29:52,900 from their suspect list. 689 00:29:54,500 --> 00:29:54,566 [Laura] And that's when Reggie tells me about 690 00:29:54,566 --> 00:29:56,734 [Laura] And that's when Reggie tells me about 691 00:29:56,734 --> 00:29:59,467 another dispute that Harry had with a local resident 692 00:29:59,467 --> 00:30:02,734 by the name of Clark Beach. 693 00:30:02,734 --> 00:30:04,967 [Laura] Harry accused Clark of murdering 694 00:30:04,967 --> 00:30:06,800 a local in town. 695 00:30:07,867 --> 00:30:09,634 Does anyone have enough of an issue with Harry 696 00:30:09,634 --> 00:30:12,100 to kill him over these confrontations? 697 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:13,867 Maybe. 698 00:30:13,867 --> 00:30:17,233 So now I go looking for Clark Beach. 699 00:30:24,166 --> 00:30:24,566 Clark Beach is a local homeopath, 700 00:30:24,566 --> 00:30:26,734 Clark Beach is a local homeopath, 701 00:30:26,734 --> 00:30:31,100 and Harry did not take kindly to his naturopathic beliefs. 702 00:30:32,867 --> 00:30:36,367 Harry referred to the homeopathic remedies 703 00:30:36,367 --> 00:30:37,967 as satanic. 704 00:30:37,967 --> 00:30:41,734 Clark Beach felt that he was now being targeted by Harry. 705 00:30:41,734 --> 00:30:46,600 Harry had posted a message on the town bulletin board 706 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:51,166 accusing Clark Beach of murdering a resident 707 00:30:51,166 --> 00:30:53,266 with his satanic remedies. 708 00:30:54,266 --> 00:30:54,566 Harry followed up by sending numerous threatening letters 709 00:30:54,566 --> 00:30:57,367 Harry followed up by sending numerous threatening letters 710 00:30:57,367 --> 00:30:58,500 to Clark. 711 00:30:58,500 --> 00:31:00,867 [narrator] Investigators consider the possibility 712 00:31:00,867 --> 00:31:04,634 Harry's persistent threats may have driven Clark to violence. 713 00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:08,166 Interpersonal conflicts in general 714 00:31:08,166 --> 00:31:10,066 are the number-one cause of homicides, 715 00:31:10,066 --> 00:31:11,600 so perhaps the threatening behavior 716 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,600 was something that Clark wasn't prepared to deal with 717 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,000 and so took matters into his own hands. 718 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:18,867 [narrator] But Clark insists 719 00:31:18,867 --> 00:31:22,066 he never saw Harry as a threat. 720 00:31:22,066 --> 00:31:24,266 [Laura] Clark tells me as much as the letters, 721 00:31:24,266 --> 00:31:24,566 you know, obviously bothered him, 722 00:31:24,566 --> 00:31:27,000 you know, obviously bothered him, 723 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,700 he chose to befriend Harry. 724 00:31:29,700 --> 00:31:33,066 He always sort of felt that Harry was an underdog in the community. 725 00:31:33,967 --> 00:31:36,166 Clark had an alibi for the timeframe 726 00:31:36,166 --> 00:31:39,166 that I was now looking at, and I felt pretty confident 727 00:31:39,166 --> 00:31:40,867 that he had nothing to do with Harry's murder 728 00:31:40,867 --> 00:31:42,000 or Elsie's murder. 729 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,000 [narrator] With Clark Beach ruled out, 730 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,734 investigators aren't sure where to turn next. 731 00:31:47,734 --> 00:31:50,734 But in a town of just 300 residents, 732 00:31:50,734 --> 00:31:54,266 it doesn't take long for new suspicions to surface. 733 00:31:55,367 --> 00:31:56,533 [phone ringing] 734 00:31:56,533 --> 00:31:59,166 [narrator] One call grabs the Mounties' attention. 735 00:31:59,166 --> 00:32:01,867 The call concerns an earlier suspect 736 00:32:01,867 --> 00:32:04,500 named Payton Saari. 737 00:32:04,500 --> 00:32:06,734 [narrator] Payton's girlfriend Jocelyn tells us 738 00:32:06,734 --> 00:32:09,500 about a very strange conversation 739 00:32:09,500 --> 00:32:11,367 that she had with Payton. 740 00:32:11,367 --> 00:32:13,734 It was bothering her a lot 741 00:32:13,734 --> 00:32:16,533 since the discovery of Harry's body. 742 00:32:18,166 --> 00:32:21,100 [narrator] The detectives ask Jocelyn to meet them for an interview. 743 00:32:24,166 --> 00:32:24,566 [Stan] She tells us that on December 22nd, 744 00:32:24,566 --> 00:32:26,166 [Stan] She tells us that on December 22nd, 745 00:32:26,166 --> 00:32:28,533 she and Payton were at the Snack Shack. 746 00:32:29,367 --> 00:32:31,700 While they were outside in their vehicle, 747 00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:33,734 Payton tells her that he had gone 748 00:32:33,734 --> 00:32:35,634 to the dump that day with Harry, 749 00:32:36,467 --> 00:32:39,166 and while he was at the dump with Harry, 750 00:32:39,166 --> 00:32:40,800 he got into a fight. 751 00:32:41,867 --> 00:32:44,166 And that the last time he saw Harry, 752 00:32:44,166 --> 00:32:45,634 Harry was still at the dump, 753 00:32:45,634 --> 00:32:47,734 and Payton walked home from the dump. 754 00:32:49,066 --> 00:32:53,266 At first, Jocelyn didn't think anything about this. 755 00:32:53,266 --> 00:32:54,566 And then when she hears that Harry was murdered, 756 00:32:54,566 --> 00:32:56,166 And then when she hears that Harry was murdered, 757 00:32:56,867 --> 00:32:59,166 she becomes concerned. 758 00:32:59,166 --> 00:33:01,600 When she talks to Payton about it, Payton tells her 759 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,367 that the whole thing was a lie, 760 00:33:03,367 --> 00:33:04,800 it was just a story he made up. 761 00:33:06,066 --> 00:33:08,467 He wanted to test her to make sure he could trust her 762 00:33:08,467 --> 00:33:10,800 to look after him if he does anything bad. 763 00:33:12,266 --> 00:33:15,266 [Laura] This, to me, is incredibly compelling. 764 00:33:15,266 --> 00:33:16,367 There's something here. 765 00:33:16,367 --> 00:33:19,367 Our next step is, well, let's talk to Payton again. 766 00:33:19,367 --> 00:33:21,800 So we bring Payton in. 767 00:33:22,500 --> 00:33:24,566 And he laughs it off. 768 00:33:24,566 --> 00:33:24,867 And he laughs it off. 769 00:33:24,867 --> 00:33:27,367 He says, "Oh, that? Yeah. That was a joke. 770 00:33:27,367 --> 00:33:28,600 I made that story up. 771 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,734 I wanted to just prank her 772 00:33:30,734 --> 00:33:32,066 and just to see if I could trust her 773 00:33:32,066 --> 00:33:33,734 if anything ever happened with us." 774 00:33:33,734 --> 00:33:37,467 So he kind of confirms what he told to her. 775 00:33:37,467 --> 00:33:39,600 But it doesn't sit right, 776 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,467 'cause the story's just getting stranger and stranger. 777 00:33:42,467 --> 00:33:44,166 [narrator] Investigators ask Payton 778 00:33:44,166 --> 00:33:46,867 the same questions they asked him last time. 779 00:33:46,867 --> 00:33:49,533 But now they listen for any changes in his story. 780 00:33:50,734 --> 00:33:53,266 I ask Payton again when he last saw Harry, 781 00:33:53,266 --> 00:33:54,566 and he says, "Oh, it was about a week before 782 00:33:54,566 --> 00:33:56,734 and he says, "Oh, it was about a week before 783 00:33:56,734 --> 00:33:58,734 you guys all came to the house." 784 00:33:58,734 --> 00:34:01,333 So he's referring to when the bodies were found. 785 00:34:02,533 --> 00:34:05,066 He says, "Yeah, I saw Harry driving around that week," 786 00:34:05,066 --> 00:34:07,000 just like everyone else said, in that truck. 787 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,867 [narrator] But that's not the story 788 00:34:08,867 --> 00:34:10,867 Payton shared earlier. 789 00:34:10,867 --> 00:34:13,467 Previously Payton said he hadn't seen Harry 790 00:34:13,467 --> 00:34:16,600 since December 22nd at the dump, 791 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:21,000 several weeks before police discovered Harry's body. 792 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,867 [Dr. Arntfield] It's gonna naturally pique investigators' curiosity. 793 00:34:23,867 --> 00:34:24,566 But let's face it, people get nervous, 794 00:34:24,566 --> 00:34:26,266 But let's face it, people get nervous, 795 00:34:26,266 --> 00:34:28,500 uptight and annoyed frequently 796 00:34:28,500 --> 00:34:30,500 having to speak with police investigators, 797 00:34:30,500 --> 00:34:33,266 and don't necessarily remember things 798 00:34:33,266 --> 00:34:34,634 as they normally would. 799 00:34:34,634 --> 00:34:36,066 They often try to remember things 800 00:34:36,066 --> 00:34:38,867 as they think they should. 801 00:34:38,867 --> 00:34:42,367 [Laura] I let him know that, "You're acting suspicious, 802 00:34:42,367 --> 00:34:43,867 and I think you know more, 803 00:34:43,867 --> 00:34:45,867 or you have something to do with it." 804 00:34:45,867 --> 00:34:48,533 [narrator] The Mounties have one way to find out. 805 00:34:48,533 --> 00:34:50,467 We ask him to do a polygraph. 806 00:34:50,467 --> 00:34:53,066 [narrator] To their surprise, Payton agrees, 807 00:34:53,066 --> 00:34:54,566 and schedules to return in a week. 808 00:34:54,566 --> 00:34:55,500 and schedules to return in a week. 809 00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:59,066 Now investigators consider whether their second hunch 810 00:34:59,066 --> 00:35:01,266 about Payton has once again led them astray, 811 00:35:01,266 --> 00:35:05,634 while the real double murderer is still out there somewhere. 812 00:35:07,266 --> 00:35:08,367 We don't have any evidence 813 00:35:08,367 --> 00:35:11,266 or anything else suggesting that 814 00:35:11,266 --> 00:35:12,433 Payton is a suspect. 815 00:35:15,634 --> 00:35:18,100 [narrator] While the Royal Canadian Mounted Police 816 00:35:18,100 --> 00:35:19,800 prepare for a polygraph exam 817 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,100 scheduled for their double homicide suspect 818 00:35:22,100 --> 00:35:23,634 Payton Saari, 819 00:35:23,634 --> 00:35:26,867 Payton himself calls investigators, full of nerves. 820 00:35:26,867 --> 00:35:28,367 [phone ringing] 821 00:35:28,367 --> 00:35:30,166 [Laura] My phone rang. 822 00:35:30,166 --> 00:35:32,066 Payton said, "Officer Laura, 823 00:35:32,066 --> 00:35:34,800 I would like to confess to killing those two people." 824 00:35:35,967 --> 00:35:38,467 [narrator] Payton also offers a reason. 825 00:35:38,467 --> 00:35:41,800 [Laura] He says that Harry freaked out, 826 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,166 called him a racial slur. 827 00:35:43,166 --> 00:35:44,695 Uh, Payton is of First Nations descent, 828 00:35:44,695 --> 00:35:45,634 Uh, Payton is of First Nations descent, 829 00:35:45,634 --> 00:35:47,734 and he was very upset with that. 830 00:35:49,266 --> 00:35:50,800 Payton says he was so mad, 831 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,166 he grabbed the closest thing nearby 832 00:35:53,166 --> 00:35:54,367 which was a 2x4, 833 00:35:54,367 --> 00:35:56,433 and he hit Harry in the head. 834 00:35:57,467 --> 00:35:59,533 [narrator] Investigators are stunned, 835 00:35:59,533 --> 00:36:01,533 unsure if they can really believe 836 00:36:01,533 --> 00:36:03,266 Payton's unprompted claim, 837 00:36:03,266 --> 00:36:05,533 and whether he could have done the same to Elsie 838 00:36:05,533 --> 00:36:08,266 who didn't have a mean bone in her body. 839 00:36:08,266 --> 00:36:10,967 Still, it's enough for Mounties to hold him 840 00:36:10,967 --> 00:36:12,900 while they search for supporting evidence. 841 00:36:13,734 --> 00:36:14,695 [siren wailing] 842 00:36:14,695 --> 00:36:15,100 [siren wailing] 843 00:36:15,100 --> 00:36:17,066 [Laura] Our team heads over to 844 00:36:17,066 --> 00:36:18,634 the house where Payton Saari lives 845 00:36:18,634 --> 00:36:20,066 with his family. 846 00:36:20,900 --> 00:36:22,734 In speaking with Payton's mom, 847 00:36:22,734 --> 00:36:25,367 she does talk about clothing 848 00:36:25,367 --> 00:36:27,166 that Payton would normally wear, 849 00:36:27,166 --> 00:36:28,634 and she does talk about 850 00:36:28,634 --> 00:36:32,166 a red and blue Columbia brand jacket. 851 00:36:32,166 --> 00:36:34,734 We did find that red and blue winter jacket 852 00:36:34,734 --> 00:36:37,367 in the residence of Elsie and Harry. 853 00:36:37,367 --> 00:36:40,166 [narrator] Confirming that jacket was Payton's 854 00:36:40,166 --> 00:36:42,066 is drawing circumstantial evidence 855 00:36:42,066 --> 00:36:44,695 linking Payton to the Steppa house crime scene. 856 00:36:44,695 --> 00:36:44,800 linking Payton to the Steppa house crime scene. 857 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,266 Investigators now return to the Steppa house 858 00:36:50,266 --> 00:36:54,100 to look for anything else that may link Payton to the crimes. 859 00:36:54,100 --> 00:36:55,967 [Laura] As our identification unit 860 00:36:55,967 --> 00:36:58,533 are going through Harry and Elsie's house, 861 00:36:58,533 --> 00:37:02,266 searching in the basement of the residence, 862 00:37:02,266 --> 00:37:04,166 they come across a snowboard. 863 00:37:04,166 --> 00:37:06,734 And that is the snowboard that we believe 864 00:37:06,734 --> 00:37:09,634 was stolen from Payton at some point. 865 00:37:10,533 --> 00:37:12,734 Which starts to lend the fact 866 00:37:12,734 --> 00:37:14,695 that maybe there was a real dispute 867 00:37:14,695 --> 00:37:14,734 that maybe there was a real dispute 868 00:37:14,734 --> 00:37:17,166 between Payton and Harry. 869 00:37:17,166 --> 00:37:19,634 Is it something that he would kill Harry over? 870 00:37:23,166 --> 00:37:25,634 [narrator] Payton now admits he was at the Steppa home 871 00:37:25,634 --> 00:37:28,367 and also stole and sold electronics. 872 00:37:28,367 --> 00:37:31,266 Surveillance video from local pawn shops 873 00:37:31,266 --> 00:37:32,734 confirms his story. 874 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,967 [Laura] Payton was caught on video selling items 875 00:37:36,967 --> 00:37:40,867 that were found actually in Harry's residence. 876 00:37:40,867 --> 00:37:42,867 Gaming systems, electronics. 877 00:37:42,867 --> 00:37:44,695 Things that Harry was known to steal. 878 00:37:44,695 --> 00:37:45,367 Things that Harry was known to steal. 879 00:37:45,367 --> 00:37:47,533 [narrator] Payton sold Harry's stolen property 880 00:37:47,533 --> 00:37:50,100 on February 15th, two months after 881 00:37:50,100 --> 00:37:51,800 police believe Harry was killed. 882 00:37:55,166 --> 00:37:57,266 With the evidence confirming his story, 883 00:37:57,266 --> 00:38:00,734 Payton also confesses to killing Harry's aunt Elsie 884 00:38:00,734 --> 00:38:03,533 and reveals the remaining details. 885 00:38:04,634 --> 00:38:07,367 Investigators now know exactly what happened 886 00:38:07,367 --> 00:38:10,367 the day Elsie Steppa and her nephew Harry were murdered. 887 00:38:13,166 --> 00:38:14,695 [Stan] At approximately 2 p.m. 888 00:38:14,695 --> 00:38:15,634 [Stan] At approximately 2 p.m. 889 00:38:15,634 --> 00:38:18,367 Harry asks Payton to help him take 890 00:38:18,367 --> 00:38:20,634 some pallets and garbage to the dump. 891 00:38:21,367 --> 00:38:23,166 Harry offers to pay him $20 892 00:38:23,166 --> 00:38:24,967 and Payton agrees. 893 00:38:24,967 --> 00:38:27,734 [Laura] At 3 p.m. Harry and Payton 894 00:38:27,734 --> 00:38:30,367 are at the Ethelbert municipal waste site 895 00:38:30,367 --> 00:38:32,533 and they get into a verbal altercation 896 00:38:32,533 --> 00:38:33,967 which turns physical. 897 00:38:35,867 --> 00:38:38,900 Payton hits him over the head numerous times with a 2x4. 898 00:38:40,867 --> 00:38:42,533 [Stan] Payton is concerned 899 00:38:42,533 --> 00:38:44,695 that Harry's gonna survive and tell the police 900 00:38:44,695 --> 00:38:44,734 that Harry's gonna survive and tell the police 901 00:38:44,734 --> 00:38:46,100 about what happened. 902 00:38:46,100 --> 00:38:47,967 [Laura] He then slits his throat... 903 00:38:49,367 --> 00:38:51,166 tosses him into the bed of the truck, 904 00:38:51,166 --> 00:38:53,467 covers him with three wooden pallets 905 00:38:53,467 --> 00:38:55,367 and some articles of clothing, 906 00:38:55,367 --> 00:38:58,000 and he gets into the truck and drives away. 907 00:39:00,467 --> 00:39:02,367 At 4:15 p.m. 908 00:39:02,367 --> 00:39:04,367 Payton drives the truck back 909 00:39:04,367 --> 00:39:05,900 to Elsie and Harry's home. 910 00:39:07,066 --> 00:39:09,367 And as he's pulling into the driveway, 911 00:39:09,367 --> 00:39:13,166 Elsie opens the side door. 912 00:39:13,166 --> 00:39:14,695 He realizes that he's now been seen driving Harry's truck. 913 00:39:14,695 --> 00:39:17,867 He realizes that he's now been seen driving Harry's truck. 914 00:39:17,867 --> 00:39:19,266 So he panics. 915 00:39:21,266 --> 00:39:23,100 He sees an axe 916 00:39:23,100 --> 00:39:25,100 just lying on the ground, so he picks it up 917 00:39:25,100 --> 00:39:26,867 and bludgeons her. 918 00:39:28,066 --> 00:39:29,467 He pushes her in the house 919 00:39:29,467 --> 00:39:31,367 so that nobody will see what's happening. 920 00:39:33,367 --> 00:39:36,734 He find a hammer and he hits her in the back of the head. 921 00:39:39,266 --> 00:39:41,533 He then takes the drywall saw 922 00:39:41,533 --> 00:39:43,000 and slits her throat as well. 923 00:39:43,900 --> 00:39:44,695 [Stan] After Elsie was dead, 924 00:39:44,695 --> 00:39:45,800 [Stan] After Elsie was dead, 925 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,734 he put her into the bedroom where she was found. 926 00:39:49,900 --> 00:39:52,266 And then he put the two dogs in there with her, 927 00:39:52,266 --> 00:39:54,266 hoping that the dogs would just quietly die. 928 00:40:02,367 --> 00:40:04,900 At approximately 5 p.m. 929 00:40:04,900 --> 00:40:06,467 Payton looked around the house 930 00:40:06,467 --> 00:40:07,533 to see what he could find 931 00:40:07,533 --> 00:40:09,634 to steal and sell to somebody else. 932 00:40:10,900 --> 00:40:14,100 [Laura] He accidentally leaves his red and blue coat. 933 00:40:16,100 --> 00:40:18,800 Payton tells me that he would 934 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,734 frequently return to Harry's house, 935 00:40:21,734 --> 00:40:23,533 he would drive the truck around. 936 00:40:23,533 --> 00:40:26,867 All the while, Harry's body was in the back of the truck 937 00:40:26,867 --> 00:40:29,533 covered in snow and pallets. 938 00:40:29,533 --> 00:40:32,066 Payton tells me that he made the decision 939 00:40:32,066 --> 00:40:34,533 to try to look like Harry while he was driving the truck 940 00:40:34,533 --> 00:40:36,734 so he would wear a big, black toque 941 00:40:36,734 --> 00:40:38,367 and Harry's sunglasses. 942 00:40:39,367 --> 00:40:42,367 He talks about seeing people when he was driving, 943 00:40:42,367 --> 00:40:44,166 and he knew people thought it was Harry. 944 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,634 [Stan] On May the 1st, 2013, 945 00:40:48,634 --> 00:40:50,100 Payton is arrested 946 00:40:50,100 --> 00:40:52,634 and charged with two counts of first-degree murder. 947 00:40:54,166 --> 00:40:58,166 Payton was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. 948 00:40:58,166 --> 00:41:01,367 But the courts determined that he was criminally responsible 949 00:41:01,367 --> 00:41:03,533 for the murders of Harry and Elsie. 950 00:41:04,266 --> 00:41:06,266 Payton Saari is given 951 00:41:06,266 --> 00:41:08,266 a mandatory life sentence 952 00:41:08,266 --> 00:41:12,166 and his parole eligibility is set at 20 years. 953 00:41:12,166 --> 00:41:14,266 This is a very tragic situation 954 00:41:14,266 --> 00:41:14,695 'cause you can certainly imagine how 955 00:41:14,695 --> 00:41:16,800 'cause you can certainly imagine how 956 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,266 if these people had have had greater support, 957 00:41:19,266 --> 00:41:21,266 how an outcome would have been different. 958 00:41:21,266 --> 00:41:22,800 They're victims of a crime 959 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,000 which is almost like a horror movie. 960 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,467 It really highlights how we need to do better 961 00:41:27,467 --> 00:41:31,266 to help people with mental health issues. 962 00:41:31,266 --> 00:41:34,100 [Laura] Two homicides in the community of Ethelbert 963 00:41:34,100 --> 00:41:36,166 really kind of destroyed a small town, 964 00:41:36,166 --> 00:41:39,634 their peaceful, kind of, you know, country living. 965 00:41:39,634 --> 00:41:42,100 It was very hard for people to understand 966 00:41:42,100 --> 00:41:43,634 how and why and who. 967 00:41:44,734 --> 00:41:47,734 [Stan] For five months nobody knew what was going on. 968 00:41:47,734 --> 00:41:51,166 And to be able to tell people, 969 00:41:51,166 --> 00:41:54,367 whether it's victims or community members, what happened, 970 00:41:55,367 --> 00:41:56,734 that's a good feeling. 971 00:41:57,533 --> 00:41:59,333 And that's why I do what I do. 972 00:42:00,634 --> 00:42:04,066 [Laura] For Elsie, who I think is the most innocent in all of this, 973 00:42:04,066 --> 00:42:05,867 she was trying to help her sister 974 00:42:05,867 --> 00:42:07,634 raise a tough nut, and look how she ended up.