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[Laura LeDrew] It's one of
the most horrific scenes
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00:00:06,166 --> 00:00:07,634
I think I've ever walked into.
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00:00:08,634 --> 00:00:10,600
There's missing body parts.
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There was the axe mark
on her head.
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Who did this?
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Harry did have
a lot of enemies in town.
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[Laura] The neighbor
could hear loud fights
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and screaming matches
between the two of them.
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[Stan McCutchin] While we're
searching the property...
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We see a truck. We shovel
some of the snow away.
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And there
in the bed of the truck
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is a bloody body.
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is a bloody body.
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He's frozen solid.
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[John O'Donovan] If the bodies
thaw too quickly,
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valuable evidence can be lost.
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[Laura] I'm very worried
that there is
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a deranged killer on the loose
at this point.
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Things like this don't happen
in Ethelbert.
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[narrator] Every day
in North America,
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dozens of people are murdered.
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The key to solving
the toughest
of these homicides
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lies in the final 24 hours
of the victim's life.
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To crack the case,
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detectives must reconstruct
that critical timeline.
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detectives must reconstruct
that critical timeline.
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The minutes and hours
containing evidence
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that can help
unlock the mystery
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and catch the killer.
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Stretching 5,500 miles
across North America,
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the US/Canadian
international border
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is the longest and most
peaceful in the world.
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And right in the middle
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lies tiny Ethelbert, Manitoba.
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300 residents living 300 miles
north of Minnesota.
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300 residents living 300 miles
north of Minnesota.
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Ethelbert is extremely rural.
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It is the heart
of the prairies.
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[Laura] The people tend to
all know who each other are,
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and it's places
that are passed down
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from family to family,
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so there's lots of related
people within the community.
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There's a lot
of beef industry there.
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There's grain farming.
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There's also quite a bit
of tourism in the area
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because of the fishing
and the hunting.
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because of the fishing
and the hunting.
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There aren't a lot
of problems or disputes
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that become a criminal issue.
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[narrator] On most winter days
in Ethelbert,
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the temperature
stays well below freezing,
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and nothing much happens.
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But January 19th, 2013
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is not like most winter days.
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[phone ringing]
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[Stan] The Ethelbert mayor
called the RCMP detachment
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to check in on the wellbeing
of one of his people.
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[narrator] Royal Canadian
Mounted Police Sergeant
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Laura LeDrew responds
to the call.
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Laura LeDrew responds
to the call.
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[Laura] The mayor
asked our team
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for a report
of a wellbeing check
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on a resident of Ethelbert,
Elsie Steppa,
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who is an elderly lady.
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It's been four weeks
since anyone has seen her.
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[Stan] There's been no smoke
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or heat
coming out of the chimney.
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And there are two dogs
known to be in that house
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but they haven't been seen
either in the last two weeks.
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[Laura] The mayor
was calling to see
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if someone could possibly
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go check on her
at her residence.
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[John] This is
a brutally cold morning.
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The temperature is
minus 40 degrees.
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[narrator]
At that temperature,
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exposed skin
can freeze in minutes.
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Sergeant LeDrew
and a team of Mounties
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arrive at
the Steppa farmhouse.
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[Laura] There's no sign
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of anything happening.
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We open the door.
It's slightly ajar,
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which seems suspicious.
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So at this point we don't know
what we're going into.
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So at this point we don't know
what we're going into.
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In the house, it's dark.
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There's no electricity.
It's very, very, very cold.
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There's no sign of anyone.
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At first I don't actually know
what to think.
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Never seen a residence
that looked like this.
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The house is completely full.
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It's a hoarder's house.
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Items stacked every which way.
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There are
stacks of DVD players,
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There are
stacks of DVD players,
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VCR players
and cords hanging everywhere,
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batteries everywhere.
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In the living room
of Elsie's house
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there's a makeshift altar
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and a whole load
of religious artefacts.
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[Laura] We don't know
where Elsie Steppa is.
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That's our main concern
right now.
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We see some blood, a couple
of droplets here and there,
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which is obviously
never a good thing.
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And we make our way
to this door that's closed...
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And we make our way
to this door that's closed...
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[dogs barking]
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[Laura] ...where we can
hear the dogs barking.
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We try to open the door.
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It was jammed on something.
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Sp we had to really force
our way in.
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[narrator] Officers need
to know if anyone is
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behind the door with dogs.
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One of the members
found a hammer,
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and he was
going to use the hammer
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to sort of bash the door
to get us in.
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And that's when we noticed
on the head of the hammer was
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some grey hairs, looked like
human hairs, and blood.
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some grey hairs, looked like
human hairs, and blood.
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[dogs continue barking]
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[Laura] We were able
to finally get the door open.
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We notice there's another door
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that looks to be made from
a chain-link fence.
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We push the door open
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and these two dogs
come running out
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and they just ran outside.
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That was a moment of terror.
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When we get into the room,
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it's one of
the most horrific scenes
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I think I've ever walked into.
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I think I've ever walked into.
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There is a body
lying on the floor,
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face down.
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I'm making an assumption
at this point
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that it is Elsie Steppa.
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The injuries to the head were
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something I've never
seen before.
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There's an ice axe
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located under her head.
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There is a hole
in the back of the head.
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There was multiple cracks
on the skull.
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She had her neck
completely split.
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She had her neck
completely split.
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There's no hair on the head.
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There's an ear missing.
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There is
half of an arm missing
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and another
complete arm missing.
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I see a tiny drywall saw
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which are
very, very, very sharp.
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And that is covered
in blood as well.
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The hammer
that we just about used,
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that's a weapon.
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I can see the hole
that exactly would match
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the size of the hole
in the back of her head.
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the size of the hole
in the back of her head.
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[John] The officers are able
to find her identification
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in her purse in the room,
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and there's no doubt about it
that this is Elsie Steppa.
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[narrator] 81-year-old
Elsie Steppa
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who lived peacefully
under Ethelbert Farm
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most of her life
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is now the victim
of a brutal homicide.
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[Laura]
She's completely frozen,
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and that's obviously due to
the temperatures outside.
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But she's inside and there's
no heat in that house.
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I've never seen
anything like this.
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I've never seen
anything like this.
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And now we have to start
the hard work
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of figuring out what happened.
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[narrator] Sergeant LeDrew
calls in the Mounties experts
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to help her
sift through the evidence.
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Our forensics team begins
to bag all of the items.
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I'm looking through the room
with all of the clothing,
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and most of the clothing
is old, tattered.
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But I do see
kind of a sportier ski jacket.
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But I do see
kind of a sportier ski jacket.
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It stands out because
it's not underneath this pile.
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It's sort of on top,
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and potentially
recently put there.
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We seize that as well.
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[narrator] Based on what
investigators have seen so far
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they piece together
an initial sequence
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of what may have happened
to Elsie Steppa.
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In a small community
like Ethelbert,
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most people probably
don't lock their doors.
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most people probably
don't lock their doors.
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Is it someone that she might
know and let in the house?
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At this point I'm now thinking
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00:08:05,533 --> 00:08:08,433
maybe she was attacked
in the living room.
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Did they drag her, then,
into the bedroom,
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and then hit her
in the back of the head
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with the hammer
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and then slit her throat
with the drywall saw?
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And I'm staring at her,
the missing limbs,
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and I'm thinking
the worst things possible.
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I'm very worried that there is
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I'm very worried that there is
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a deranged killer on the loose
at this point.
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Elsie's body is taken
to the morgue
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where her body
is allowed to thaw out
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under controlled situation.
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[narrator] To solve
the mystery
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00:08:46,967 --> 00:08:48,734
of Elsie Steppa's murder,
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detectives need to reconstruct
the last 24 hours of her life.
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[Stan] We started to talk
to everybody in Ethelbert.
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[narrator] RCMP constable
Stan McCutchin
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00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,166
[narrator] RCMP constable
Stan McCutchin
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00:09:02,166 --> 00:09:03,900
joins the investigation.
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00:09:04,867 --> 00:09:07,867
Several people in Ethelbert
report seeing her
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00:09:07,867 --> 00:09:09,600
on December 22nd,
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00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,467
maybe four weeks before
her body was found,
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00:09:12,467 --> 00:09:15,533
going to the store
and buying food.
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[Laura] I speak with
the local store owner
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00:09:18,867 --> 00:09:20,867
of the one shop in town,
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and he confirms that
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00:09:22,367 --> 00:09:25,100
she hasn't been here
for about four weeks.
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[narrator] Investigators
estimate that Elsie was killed
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00:09:28,266 --> 00:09:30,000
some time between
December 22nd
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00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:30,266
some time between
December 22nd
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00:09:30,266 --> 00:09:33,367
when she was last seen
buying groceries
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00:09:33,367 --> 00:09:36,634
and January 19th
when her body was discovered.
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00:09:37,867 --> 00:09:39,467
Until her body thaws
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00:09:39,467 --> 00:09:41,734
and the coroner can confirm
her time of death,
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00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,066
investigators gather
background on Elsie
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00:09:45,066 --> 00:09:47,634
to find out who may have
wanted to hurt her.
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00:09:51,467 --> 00:09:54,000
[narrator] One concerned
neighbor Natalie Panto
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00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,600
goes on to describe Elsie
as a recluse,
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00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,000
someone who doesn't
really leave her house.
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00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:00,367
someone who doesn't
really leave her house.
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00:10:00,367 --> 00:10:02,367
Friendly and pleasant enough.
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00:10:02,367 --> 00:10:05,600
[Stan] And she tells us
Elsie has never been married
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00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:07,967
and she has no children.
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00:10:07,967 --> 00:10:10,700
And around town,
she's known as the cat lady,
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00:10:10,700 --> 00:10:14,266
because at one point
in the not-too-distant past
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00:10:14,266 --> 00:10:18,600
she had 20 cats
living in her house.
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[narrator] The sergeant
asks Natalie
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00:10:20,100 --> 00:10:22,634
if she can think of anyone
who might want to harm Elsie.
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00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,500
[Laura] Natalie mentions that
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00:10:25,500 --> 00:10:28,467
Elsie actually does live with
her nephew,
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00:10:28,467 --> 00:10:30,000
a man by the name
of Harry Jones.
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00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:30,333
a man by the name
of Harry Jones.
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00:10:31,066 --> 00:10:33,066
About 50 years old.
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00:10:33,066 --> 00:10:34,700
[Stan] According to Natalie,
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00:10:34,700 --> 00:10:36,734
Jones is well-known
in the community
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00:10:36,734 --> 00:10:39,266
and generally disliked.
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00:10:39,266 --> 00:10:41,533
[John] Natalie describes
Jones as
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00:10:41,533 --> 00:10:43,166
aggressive and impulsive.
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00:10:44,166 --> 00:10:47,166
[Laura] I learn that he
suffers from schizophrenia
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and that he's delusional.
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00:10:49,634 --> 00:10:52,467
He has been banned
from going to any church
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00:10:52,467 --> 00:10:54,367
because he causes disturbances
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00:10:54,367 --> 00:10:57,367
and questions the priest
in the middle of the services
252
00:10:57,367 --> 00:10:59,634
and tends to be
very disruptive.
253
00:11:01,066 --> 00:11:03,700
[Stan] Elsie and Harry
live in a house without heat
254
00:11:03,700 --> 00:11:06,166
and they live in a house
without running water.
255
00:11:06,166 --> 00:11:08,266
Neither one of them has a job
256
00:11:08,266 --> 00:11:12,533
and they just manage
to scrape by.
257
00:11:16,367 --> 00:11:19,700
[Laura] The neighbor also
speaks about loud fights.
258
00:11:19,700 --> 00:11:23,467
She could hear loud fights
and screaming matches
between the two of them.
259
00:11:23,467 --> 00:11:25,266
[narrator] The neighbor
reports hearing
260
00:11:25,266 --> 00:11:28,367
a vicious argument not long
before she was murdered.
261
00:11:28,367 --> 00:11:30,000
[Stan] Harry wanted Elsie
to get rid of all of her cats,
262
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:31,000
[Stan] Harry wanted Elsie
to get rid of all of her cats,
263
00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:33,166
and he wanted
to keep his two dogs
264
00:11:33,166 --> 00:11:34,867
that were very aggressive
265
00:11:34,867 --> 00:11:36,467
and not well-liked
in the community,
266
00:11:36,467 --> 00:11:39,800
and that the two of them
would argue loudly about this.
267
00:11:41,266 --> 00:11:43,734
[Laura] So, Harry ends up
winning that argument
268
00:11:43,734 --> 00:11:47,533
and the cats are taken away
by animal protection units.
269
00:11:49,166 --> 00:11:51,166
[narrator] Elsie's nephew
Harry Jones
270
00:11:51,166 --> 00:11:54,367
is the RCMP's
number-one suspect.
271
00:11:54,367 --> 00:11:57,100
[Laura] Natalie then says
she hasn't seen Harry
272
00:11:57,100 --> 00:11:59,367
for probably about four weeks,
273
00:11:59,367 --> 00:12:00,000
and Elsie about
the same amount of time.
274
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,367
and Elsie about
the same amount of time.
275
00:12:02,367 --> 00:12:05,266
And she also hasn't seen
the dogs
276
00:12:05,266 --> 00:12:07,467
running around outside.
277
00:12:07,467 --> 00:12:09,467
[Stan] We start looking for
Harry Jones immediately.
278
00:12:09,467 --> 00:12:12,700
We wanna find him,
we wanna arrest him.
279
00:12:12,700 --> 00:12:15,266
[Laura] Maybe Harry Jones
is our suspect.
280
00:12:15,266 --> 00:12:18,266
Maybe he's the one
who killed his aunt.
281
00:12:23,266 --> 00:12:25,266
[narrator] Just hours after
Canadian police
282
00:12:25,266 --> 00:12:28,266
in Manitoba
find 81-year-old Elsie Steppa
283
00:12:28,266 --> 00:12:31,166
murdered and frozen
in her hoarder home,
284
00:12:31,166 --> 00:12:34,166
Elsie's cantankerous
50-year-old nephew
285
00:12:34,166 --> 00:12:36,800
Harry Jones becomes
the number-one suspect.
286
00:12:37,634 --> 00:12:39,533
[Stan] We are in that house,
287
00:12:39,533 --> 00:12:41,266
and at no time
does Harry Jones show up
288
00:12:41,266 --> 00:12:42,700
to ask us what we are doing.
289
00:12:42,700 --> 00:12:46,367
But investigators keep digging
into his background.
290
00:12:46,367 --> 00:12:48,233
They need
to find out more about him.
291
00:12:49,533 --> 00:12:50,948
[Stan] We know that
Elsie lives with Harry Jones.
292
00:12:50,948 --> 00:12:51,533
[Stan] We know that
Elsie lives with Harry Jones.
293
00:12:52,700 --> 00:12:54,533
He has mental health issues
294
00:12:54,533 --> 00:12:57,600
and he's been hostile
to his aunt Elsie.
295
00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,367
[narrator] Police fan out,
296
00:12:59,367 --> 00:13:01,333
searching for Elsie's
last known whereabouts.
297
00:13:02,367 --> 00:13:04,967
We start to search
the town of Ethelbert.
298
00:13:04,967 --> 00:13:07,467
[Stan] There's no sign
of Harry there.
299
00:13:08,166 --> 00:13:10,734
We hear
the same story repeatedly,
300
00:13:10,734 --> 00:13:12,266
that Harry is a thief.
301
00:13:12,266 --> 00:13:14,734
He's a petty thief,
that's how he survives.
302
00:13:15,634 --> 00:13:17,634
It's not just stealing food.
303
00:13:17,634 --> 00:13:20,467
He's been caught breaking into
304
00:13:20,467 --> 00:13:20,948
some of the closed churches
in the area
305
00:13:20,948 --> 00:13:22,867
some of the closed churches
in the area
306
00:13:22,867 --> 00:13:24,367
and stealing things.
307
00:13:24,367 --> 00:13:28,467
And basically nobody trusts
him around the property.
308
00:13:28,467 --> 00:13:30,166
Nobody wants him around them.
309
00:13:31,367 --> 00:13:33,867
[Laura] All these
religious items at the house,
310
00:13:33,867 --> 00:13:36,533
these items belong to
local community members
311
00:13:36,533 --> 00:13:38,467
and they were stolen.
312
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,166
[Stan] We run Harry Jones
313
00:13:41,166 --> 00:13:43,533
through the police databases
that we have,
314
00:13:43,533 --> 00:13:45,700
and he does not have
a criminal record,
315
00:13:45,700 --> 00:13:48,367
which is unusual
given everything
316
00:13:48,367 --> 00:13:50,467
we've learned about him.
317
00:13:50,467 --> 00:13:50,948
[phone ringing]
318
00:13:50,948 --> 00:13:52,100
[phone ringing]
319
00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:53,867
[narrator] Then investigators
get a tip.
320
00:13:54,867 --> 00:13:56,467
[Stan] We received
a phone call
321
00:13:56,467 --> 00:13:58,967
from one of the people
in the community
322
00:13:58,967 --> 00:14:01,500
telling us that
they had seen Harry Jones
323
00:14:01,500 --> 00:14:03,166
driving his pick-up truck.
324
00:14:03,166 --> 00:14:05,233
It was
a silver Chevy Silverado.
325
00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:08,533
He was driving
around Ethelbert
326
00:14:08,533 --> 00:14:10,500
just three days before
we were asked
327
00:14:10,500 --> 00:14:12,467
to go look and see
if Elsie was okay.
328
00:14:13,867 --> 00:14:16,533
[narrator] Two days after
Elsie's body is discovered,
329
00:14:16,533 --> 00:14:18,367
police return to her property
330
00:14:18,367 --> 00:14:20,533
to make sure
they didn't overlook anything
331
00:14:20,533 --> 00:14:20,948
under the junk piles
inside her home
332
00:14:20,948 --> 00:14:22,634
under the junk piles
inside her home
333
00:14:23,266 --> 00:14:26,166
or in the snow banks
outside it.
334
00:14:26,166 --> 00:14:28,066
[Laura] As we're searching
the property,
335
00:14:28,066 --> 00:14:29,800
there's a couple of sheds
in the backyard,
336
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:30,900
we search those,
337
00:14:31,367 --> 00:14:32,634
and we see a truck
338
00:14:32,634 --> 00:14:34,800
parked quite a ways back
behind the house.
339
00:14:35,700 --> 00:14:37,233
Silver Chevy Silverado.
340
00:14:37,867 --> 00:14:39,533
So maybe it's Harry's truck.
341
00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,166
Upon approaching it,
there's no footprints
around this truck
342
00:14:43,166 --> 00:14:45,533
saying that
it's been driven recently
or anything like that.
343
00:14:46,367 --> 00:14:48,467
The bed of the truck
is full of snow
344
00:14:48,467 --> 00:14:50,948
and you can see
a couple of wooden pallets,
crates in there.
345
00:14:50,948 --> 00:14:51,533
and you can see
a couple of wooden pallets,
crates in there.
346
00:14:53,367 --> 00:14:54,867
We shovel
some of the snow away...
347
00:14:56,367 --> 00:14:58,266
lift the pallets up,
348
00:14:58,266 --> 00:15:02,533
and there in the bed of
the truck is a bloody body.
349
00:15:06,100 --> 00:15:08,333
It's the body of Harry Jones.
350
00:15:10,100 --> 00:15:12,233
He's frozen solid
to the base of the truck.
351
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,166
He's got
numerous head injuries.
352
00:15:17,166 --> 00:15:20,000
I can see that
there's pieces of his skull
353
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:20,948
lying in the bed of the truck.
354
00:15:20,948 --> 00:15:21,433
lying in the bed of the truck.
355
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,700
And very similar
to the body of Elsie Steppa,
356
00:15:25,700 --> 00:15:27,433
his throat has been slit.
357
00:15:28,166 --> 00:15:29,533
[narrator]
It's a double tragedy
358
00:15:29,533 --> 00:15:30,800
for tiny Ethelbert.
359
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,734
The fact that
Harry isn't our killer
360
00:15:33,734 --> 00:15:36,367
makes things
even more concerning.
361
00:15:36,367 --> 00:15:38,800
'Cause now I have
somebody in this community
362
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,533
that's killed two people
363
00:15:40,533 --> 00:15:42,533
and hasn't been found yet.
364
00:15:43,533 --> 00:15:45,166
[narrator] For investigators,
365
00:15:45,166 --> 00:15:47,700
the state of how and where
Harry's body is found
366
00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:50,266
tells them
a slightly different story
367
00:15:50,266 --> 00:15:50,948
than the story
of his aunt's homicide.
368
00:15:50,948 --> 00:15:52,367
than the story
of his aunt's homicide.
369
00:15:55,533 --> 00:15:57,600
There's a little bit of blood
in the bed of the truck,
370
00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,533
but not... not a huge amount.
371
00:16:01,700 --> 00:16:05,734
This would suggest that he had
been killed somewhere else
372
00:16:05,734 --> 00:16:06,967
and that then his body
373
00:16:06,967 --> 00:16:09,266
was thrown
in the back of the truck.
374
00:16:09,266 --> 00:16:11,467
[Stan] And that then
our killer drove back
375
00:16:11,467 --> 00:16:13,433
to Harry and Elsie's house.
376
00:16:15,734 --> 00:16:17,467
[Laura] We start to search
377
00:16:17,467 --> 00:16:19,500
the area
right beside the truck,
378
00:16:19,500 --> 00:16:20,948
keeping in mind
there is no footprints,
379
00:16:20,948 --> 00:16:21,700
keeping in mind
there is no footprints,
380
00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:24,600
there's no activity
around this truck at all.
381
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,266
We used a metal detector
382
00:16:26,266 --> 00:16:27,800
and lo and behold,
383
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:32,600
our officer found
a large wooden-handled axe.
384
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,867
Typical axe that you'd use
for cutting wood.
385
00:16:35,867 --> 00:16:38,100
And there was blood
on the head of the axe
386
00:16:38,100 --> 00:16:39,800
which was very consistent with
387
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,634
a couple of the injuries
that we could see.
388
00:16:43,867 --> 00:16:45,600
[narrator] Police continue
their search
389
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,867
for any other secrets
the truck may hold.
390
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,948
They check out
the inside of the truck.
391
00:16:50,948 --> 00:16:51,967
They check out
the inside of the truck.
392
00:16:51,967 --> 00:16:55,800
They swab the steering wheel
for DNA.
393
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,066
[Laura] I notice that
there's a paper coffee cup
394
00:16:58,066 --> 00:17:01,066
in the cup holder right beside
where the driver would be.
395
00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,266
We decided to swab the lid
396
00:17:05,266 --> 00:17:08,066
for any possible DNA
of maybe someone
397
00:17:08,066 --> 00:17:09,634
that isn't Harry or Elsie.
398
00:17:10,500 --> 00:17:12,367
[narrator] Investigators send
the swabs
399
00:17:12,367 --> 00:17:14,734
and coffee lid
to the lab for analysis.
400
00:17:15,867 --> 00:17:18,166
They also bag Harry's remains
401
00:17:18,166 --> 00:17:20,367
to join aunt Elsie's
at the morgue.
402
00:17:22,166 --> 00:17:24,166
[John] Just like Elsie Steppa,
403
00:17:24,166 --> 00:17:28,867
it's impossible to determine
when Harry Jones was killed
404
00:17:28,867 --> 00:17:31,734
because his body
is frozen solid.
405
00:17:32,634 --> 00:17:35,533
If the bodies thaw
too quickly,
406
00:17:35,533 --> 00:17:37,500
valuable evidence can be lost.
407
00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:40,367
An approximate time
of death, fingerprints,
408
00:17:40,367 --> 00:17:42,700
and even a cause of death
can be distorted
409
00:17:42,700 --> 00:17:44,367
and destroyed.
410
00:17:44,367 --> 00:17:46,700
[narrator] On January 24th,
411
00:17:46,700 --> 00:17:48,800
investigators receive
autopsy results
412
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:50,867
for both Harry
and his aunt Elsie.
413
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,533
[Laura] The medical examiner
provided insight
414
00:17:54,533 --> 00:17:56,734
into the injuries
on Elsie Steppa.
415
00:17:58,066 --> 00:18:01,166
Her limb from her shoulder
down was missing
416
00:18:01,166 --> 00:18:03,233
and her other arm
was half missing.
417
00:18:04,166 --> 00:18:07,166
The hair missing on her head,
the ear missing,
418
00:18:07,166 --> 00:18:09,100
that was due to the dogs
419
00:18:09,100 --> 00:18:10,867
that were locked
in the room with her
420
00:18:10,867 --> 00:18:13,266
with no food.
421
00:18:13,266 --> 00:18:15,533
The hole
in the back of her head,
422
00:18:15,533 --> 00:18:16,867
that was from the hammer
423
00:18:16,867 --> 00:18:19,533
that was found with the blood
and her hair on it.
424
00:18:21,100 --> 00:18:23,000
She was probably attacked
from behind,
425
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,166
hit in the head
with the hammer.
426
00:18:25,166 --> 00:18:26,967
Harry Jones's body,
427
00:18:26,967 --> 00:18:28,367
very similar,
428
00:18:28,367 --> 00:18:32,166
very violent head injuries
with the skull breaking,
429
00:18:32,166 --> 00:18:35,367
and then the throat, again,
slit to the spinal cord.
430
00:18:35,367 --> 00:18:37,467
Who wants these two people
dead this badly,
431
00:18:37,467 --> 00:18:40,367
that they would then in
addition slit their throats?
432
00:18:41,734 --> 00:18:44,166
[Stan] Harry's skull
has been fragmented.
433
00:18:44,166 --> 00:18:46,600
Our medical examiner
thinks that this is from
434
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,600
being struck in the head
several times
435
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:50,900
with a heavy, blunt object.
436
00:18:53,467 --> 00:18:54,867
[Laura] The autopsy results
437
00:18:54,867 --> 00:18:58,634
shows that they both died
of blunt force trauma.
438
00:19:00,166 --> 00:19:01,367
[narrator] The coroner's exam
439
00:19:01,367 --> 00:19:03,900
also helps detectives
form a timeline.
440
00:19:04,634 --> 00:19:05,800
[Laura] The homicides occurred
441
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,533
within the previous
four weeks.
442
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:10,367
[narrator] It's a finding
that matches up with
443
00:19:10,367 --> 00:19:11,800
what locals told detectives
444
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,166
about the last time
they saw Elsie.
445
00:19:14,166 --> 00:19:17,600
But it conflicts with what
they were told about Harry.
446
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,100
[Laura] The neighbors saw
Harry driving his truck
447
00:19:20,100 --> 00:19:20,948
three days before
the police were called
448
00:19:20,948 --> 00:19:22,367
three days before
the police were called
449
00:19:22,367 --> 00:19:25,000
and the police descended
on that house.
450
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,333
This makes no sense
to me whatsoever.
451
00:19:28,867 --> 00:19:31,100
[narrator] The mystery deepens
when investigators receive
452
00:19:31,100 --> 00:19:33,367
Harry's prints
from the morgue.
453
00:19:33,367 --> 00:19:37,266
They were run through
our national police system,
454
00:19:37,266 --> 00:19:40,600
and the person that we know
as Harry Jones
455
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:45,467
was actually a male
by the name of
Clarence Harold Thornton.
456
00:19:47,367 --> 00:19:49,800
I learned that
Clarence Harold Thornton,
457
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:50,948
AKA Harry Jones,
458
00:19:50,948 --> 00:19:51,533
AKA Harry Jones,
459
00:19:52,700 --> 00:19:55,467
is a wanted criminal
from Ontario
460
00:19:55,467 --> 00:19:58,166
for a crime he committed
over 20 years ago,
461
00:19:58,166 --> 00:20:01,600
where he stole an item
from a big-box store.
462
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,166
He resisted arrest,
463
00:20:03,166 --> 00:20:05,467
causing the police officer
to break their arm.
464
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:07,800
[narrator] Police now
believe that
465
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,367
the man who used
the alias Harry Jones
466
00:20:10,367 --> 00:20:13,066
relocated to Manitoba
with his aunt Elsie
467
00:20:13,066 --> 00:20:15,100
to escape charges in Ontario,
468
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:17,634
1,500 miles away.
469
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,600
[Laura] The neighbors
tell us that they arrived
470
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:20,948
in Ethelbert
about 18 years ago.
471
00:20:20,948 --> 00:20:23,734
in Ethelbert
about 18 years ago.
472
00:20:25,100 --> 00:20:28,500
[Stan] We find out that Elsie
is originally from Ethelbert
473
00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:30,533
and was born and raised there,
and then left,
474
00:20:30,533 --> 00:20:31,800
and when she came back,
475
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,600
she came back with
her nephew Harry.
476
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:36,467
The two of them
fit into the community.
477
00:20:36,467 --> 00:20:38,800
There didn't seem to be
a lot of problems.
478
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,166
But as Harry's
mental health issues
479
00:20:41,166 --> 00:20:42,800
became more
and more prominent,
480
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,533
there were
more and more problems
481
00:20:45,533 --> 00:20:46,900
with the people
in the community.
482
00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:50,948
[John] Harry was involved
in so many disputes
483
00:20:50,948 --> 00:20:51,600
[John] Harry was involved
in so many disputes
484
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,967
with different people
within the community,
485
00:20:53,967 --> 00:20:57,967
that Elsie probably got caught
up in one of these disputes
486
00:20:57,967 --> 00:21:00,166
and that was the reason
that she was killed.
487
00:21:00,166 --> 00:21:03,233
[narrator] But the killer,
or killers, of Elsie Steppa
488
00:21:04,100 --> 00:21:06,367
and her nephew Harry
remain elusive.
489
00:21:07,967 --> 00:21:09,600
Investigators get a clue
490
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,000
when they receive DNA results
491
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,533
from the swabs
taken at Harry's truck.
492
00:21:13,533 --> 00:21:15,500
[Laura] We learned that
there is DNA
493
00:21:15,500 --> 00:21:17,800
that's not Harry
and it's not Elsie's.
494
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,948
This is a profile
of an unknown male.
495
00:21:20,948 --> 00:21:21,100
This is a profile
of an unknown male.
496
00:21:21,100 --> 00:21:23,166
[Stan] The DNA
that's found in that swab
497
00:21:23,166 --> 00:21:24,533
is compared against
498
00:21:24,533 --> 00:21:28,367
the Canadian national
data bank of known offenders
499
00:21:28,367 --> 00:21:30,634
and it cannot be identified.
500
00:21:30,634 --> 00:21:34,533
So at this point we don't know
whose DNA that is.
501
00:21:34,533 --> 00:21:36,367
[narrator] It could belong
to the person
502
00:21:36,367 --> 00:21:39,066
who killed both Elsie Steppa
and her nephew Harry.
503
00:21:39,967 --> 00:21:42,867
So now we begin to focus
on Clarence Thornton,
504
00:21:42,867 --> 00:21:44,634
AKA Harry Jones.
505
00:21:45,634 --> 00:21:48,266
Who does he associate with?
What does he do?
506
00:21:48,266 --> 00:21:50,948
And who in his life
may have wanted to kill him?
507
00:21:50,948 --> 00:21:51,066
And who in his life
may have wanted to kill him?
508
00:21:55,533 --> 00:21:57,634
[narrator] After Royal
Canadian Mounted Police
509
00:21:57,634 --> 00:21:59,734
find 81-year-old Elsie Steppa
510
00:21:59,734 --> 00:22:01,867
and her 50-year-old
nephew Harry
511
00:22:01,867 --> 00:22:03,734
murdered and frozen
at Elsie's home
512
00:22:03,734 --> 00:22:06,000
in tiny Ethelbert, Manitoba,
513
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,500
police learn that Harry had
a criminal record
514
00:22:08,500 --> 00:22:10,066
and a secret life.
515
00:22:14,066 --> 00:22:17,266
We continued our efforts to
talk to everybody in Ethelbert
516
00:22:17,266 --> 00:22:18,533
about Harry's lifestyle.
517
00:22:19,734 --> 00:22:21,166
[John] Neighbors say that
518
00:22:21,166 --> 00:22:23,353
Harry regularly went
dumpster diving
519
00:22:23,353 --> 00:22:23,467
Harry regularly went
dumpster diving
520
00:22:23,467 --> 00:22:25,467
looking for something
to salvage
521
00:22:25,467 --> 00:22:27,533
with an associate
named Marcus.
522
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:30,166
[Stan] We find Marcus.
523
00:22:31,166 --> 00:22:32,600
[Laura] He confirms that
524
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,000
Harry and a couple
of other associates
525
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,367
were always looking for items
to pawn.
526
00:22:37,367 --> 00:22:39,500
Marcus says
they never stole anything
527
00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:40,900
from anyone, it was harmless.
528
00:22:42,367 --> 00:22:44,467
Marcus readily admitted,
though,
529
00:22:44,467 --> 00:22:47,467
that him and Harry
would often have fights
530
00:22:47,467 --> 00:22:50,533
and arguments about
who got the most money.
531
00:22:50,533 --> 00:22:51,734
Nothing out of the ordinary.
532
00:22:52,734 --> 00:22:53,353
Now he starts to mention
533
00:22:53,353 --> 00:22:54,266
Now he starts to mention
534
00:22:54,266 --> 00:22:55,734
that there's another person
in their group
535
00:22:55,734 --> 00:22:57,900
who Harry had conflict with.
536
00:22:58,634 --> 00:23:00,734
He said,
"Harry and I are fine.
537
00:23:00,734 --> 00:23:04,000
But the other guy
in our group, not so much."
538
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,467
He mentions the name
Payton Saari.
539
00:23:07,467 --> 00:23:09,100
[narrator] Payton,
Marcus and Harry
540
00:23:09,100 --> 00:23:10,734
had all scavenged together.
541
00:23:10,734 --> 00:23:12,867
But Marcus says Payton had
542
00:23:12,867 --> 00:23:14,467
a recent falling-out
with Harry.
543
00:23:16,867 --> 00:23:18,967
[John] 20-year-old
Payton Saari
544
00:23:18,967 --> 00:23:22,333
believed that Harry had stolen
his snowboard.
545
00:23:23,867 --> 00:23:27,100
[Laura] Payton was very,
very mad according to Marcus.
546
00:23:28,634 --> 00:23:31,266
Is this something
that he would kill Harry over?
547
00:23:36,367 --> 00:23:38,367
[Stan] So, we go
to Payton's house
548
00:23:38,367 --> 00:23:40,533
and we talk with his family.
549
00:23:40,533 --> 00:23:42,734
And his family tells us
550
00:23:42,734 --> 00:23:44,166
that they haven't noticed
551
00:23:44,166 --> 00:23:47,266
anything unusual
about Payton at all
552
00:23:47,266 --> 00:23:48,634
since Harry was murdered.
553
00:23:49,500 --> 00:23:51,367
We start to learn more
about Payton.
554
00:23:51,367 --> 00:23:53,266
He's a First Nations male.
555
00:23:53,266 --> 00:23:53,353
We learn that
Payton was removed
556
00:23:53,353 --> 00:23:55,166
We learn that
Payton was removed
557
00:23:55,166 --> 00:23:58,166
from his original home
by child and family services,
558
00:23:58,166 --> 00:24:00,100
and at the age of four,
559
00:24:00,100 --> 00:24:02,066
he was adopted
by the Saari family.
560
00:24:02,066 --> 00:24:05,000
[Laura] He's never been
charged with anything at all.
561
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,867
It wasn't the most stable
upbringing for Payton,
562
00:24:07,867 --> 00:24:09,900
but nothing
really that outstanding.
563
00:24:11,634 --> 00:24:13,800
[narrator] After speaking
to Payton's family,
564
00:24:14,634 --> 00:24:16,166
the Mounties return later
565
00:24:16,166 --> 00:24:18,367
to speak to Payton himself.
566
00:24:18,367 --> 00:24:20,800
[Stan] Payton tell us
that he does know Harry...
567
00:24:22,367 --> 00:24:23,353
and that
he and Harry have been
568
00:24:23,353 --> 00:24:24,166
and that
he and Harry have been
569
00:24:24,166 --> 00:24:25,967
going through
people's garbage,
570
00:24:25,967 --> 00:24:29,066
and they look for items
that have some value
571
00:24:29,066 --> 00:24:31,500
so that they can sell them
to other people.
572
00:24:31,500 --> 00:24:33,634
He tells us he has
nothing against Harry,
573
00:24:33,634 --> 00:24:37,266
and the last time he saw Harry
was on December 22nd
574
00:24:37,266 --> 00:24:39,500
when Harry offered
to pay him 20 bucks
575
00:24:39,500 --> 00:24:43,000
to help take some stuff
to the dump.
576
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,867
He says that the last time
he saw Harry
577
00:24:45,867 --> 00:24:47,467
he was alive and well.
578
00:24:48,734 --> 00:24:52,233
[narrator] Investigators press
Payton on the dispute
over his snowboard.
579
00:24:53,867 --> 00:24:56,000
[John] Payton denied that
he ever accused Harry
580
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,066
of stealing his snowboard.
581
00:24:58,066 --> 00:25:01,100
Payton doesn't talk about
any disruptions between them.
582
00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:04,367
Their relationship is totally
fine according to Payton.
583
00:25:04,367 --> 00:25:06,734
[Stan] At this point,
we have no evidence
584
00:25:06,734 --> 00:25:10,000
connecting Payton
to Elsie and Harry.
585
00:25:11,266 --> 00:25:14,266
We have a reason
to be curious and suspicious.
586
00:25:14,266 --> 00:25:15,967
But that doesn't let us
arrest anybody.
587
00:25:15,967 --> 00:25:21,066
So we just step back
from Payton
588
00:25:21,066 --> 00:25:23,000
and continue with
our investigation.
589
00:25:24,166 --> 00:25:26,066
[Laura] Payton's family
did say
590
00:25:26,066 --> 00:25:28,500
Harry had an enemy in town,
591
00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:30,533
a female
by the name of Jessica
592
00:25:31,166 --> 00:25:32,967
who made numerous complaints
593
00:25:32,967 --> 00:25:34,734
that he was threatening
to kill her.
594
00:25:35,967 --> 00:25:38,367
[narrator] Investigators
also learn that
595
00:25:38,367 --> 00:25:40,500
Jessica lives
just down the road
from the Steppa place,
596
00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:42,734
and she had
been there recently.
597
00:25:45,266 --> 00:25:49,166
Now police consider
whether Jessica stopped Harry
in his tracks,
598
00:25:49,166 --> 00:25:51,867
before Harry could make good
on his threat
599
00:25:51,867 --> 00:25:53,233
to do the same to her...
600
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,967
then returned
with his body and truck
601
00:25:56,967 --> 00:26:00,333
and killed the loose end
witness, Harry's aunt Elsie.
602
00:26:02,266 --> 00:26:04,634
[Laura] So, I'm thinking
to myself,
603
00:26:04,634 --> 00:26:07,734
"Okay, well if we have a lady
who's claiming that
604
00:26:07,734 --> 00:26:10,000
Harry Jones threatened
to kill her,
605
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,533
that's pretty interesting."
606
00:26:15,634 --> 00:26:17,734
[Stan] We met with Jessica,
607
00:26:17,734 --> 00:26:20,266
and she tells us about
a confrontation
608
00:26:20,266 --> 00:26:22,467
between her and Harry.
609
00:26:22,467 --> 00:26:23,353
[Laura] Jessica told me that
610
00:26:23,353 --> 00:26:24,867
[Laura] Jessica told me that
611
00:26:24,867 --> 00:26:27,000
she had seen
the chain-link fence
612
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,500
locking a bedroom door
from the outside,
613
00:26:29,500 --> 00:26:31,100
and she was very concerned
614
00:26:31,100 --> 00:26:33,467
that maybe Harry was
locking Elsie in a room.
615
00:26:37,100 --> 00:26:39,634
[narrator] Jessica admits
she stopped by Elsie's place
616
00:26:39,634 --> 00:26:41,734
to confront Harry in person.
617
00:26:41,734 --> 00:26:43,867
[Stan] Jessica tells us that
618
00:26:43,867 --> 00:26:46,467
she talked with Harry
and Elsie about this.
619
00:26:46,467 --> 00:26:49,367
[Laura] Elsie said that was
to keep the dogs in that room.
620
00:26:49,367 --> 00:26:51,967
[Stan] But Harry got upset.
621
00:26:51,967 --> 00:26:53,353
And that's where
the death threats came from.
622
00:26:53,353 --> 00:26:54,900
And that's where
the death threats came from.
623
00:26:56,066 --> 00:26:57,533
[Laura] She was very fearful.
624
00:26:57,533 --> 00:27:00,500
The incident went from
her having a concern
625
00:27:00,500 --> 00:27:03,266
to the point of Harry actually
threatening to kill her,
626
00:27:03,266 --> 00:27:06,000
because how dare she
accuse him of that?
627
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,634
She left the house
628
00:27:07,634 --> 00:27:10,000
and stayed away from
Elsie and Harry.
629
00:27:11,734 --> 00:27:14,367
Jessica went on to say that
that's really the last time
630
00:27:14,367 --> 00:27:17,233
she's had any interaction
with Harry.
631
00:27:19,166 --> 00:27:22,734
[narrator] Police find
Jessica's story credible.
632
00:27:22,734 --> 00:27:23,353
And with no hard evidence
tying her to the crime scene,
633
00:27:23,353 --> 00:27:26,166
And with no hard evidence
tying her to the crime scene,
634
00:27:26,166 --> 00:27:28,467
they eliminate her
as a suspect.
635
00:27:32,734 --> 00:27:35,367
But when investigators look
into local rumors...
636
00:27:37,367 --> 00:27:40,066
they find that Jessica's story
is not unique.
637
00:27:41,166 --> 00:27:43,166
Harry had a long list
of enemies
638
00:27:43,166 --> 00:27:44,533
in tiny Ethelbert.
639
00:27:45,266 --> 00:27:46,634
[Stan] We start to learn that
640
00:27:46,634 --> 00:27:49,166
Jessica is just one
of many people
641
00:27:49,166 --> 00:27:51,734
that's been harassed
or threatened by Harry Jones.
642
00:27:52,500 --> 00:27:53,353
[John] The investigators
learned that
643
00:27:53,353 --> 00:27:54,634
[John] The investigators
learned that
644
00:27:54,634 --> 00:27:57,533
Harry Jones had fought
particularly with
645
00:27:57,533 --> 00:28:00,500
a man by the name of
Reggie Bakay.
646
00:28:00,500 --> 00:28:03,600
[Laura] Reggie was also
interviewed by local media
647
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,734
and said that he didn't really
think it was strange
648
00:28:05,734 --> 00:28:07,266
that Harry would be murdered,
649
00:28:07,266 --> 00:28:10,734
because Harry was
an unlikeable person
650
00:28:10,734 --> 00:28:12,634
who had
extremely strong views.
651
00:28:12,634 --> 00:28:14,467
[John] In one report,
652
00:28:14,467 --> 00:28:17,800
Reggie Bakay was actually
mocking the investigation.
653
00:28:18,734 --> 00:28:21,066
He's seeking the spotlight
654
00:28:21,066 --> 00:28:23,353
for a very tragic event
for a community.
655
00:28:23,353 --> 00:28:23,533
for a very tragic event
for a community.
656
00:28:23,533 --> 00:28:25,634
Began wondering,
657
00:28:25,634 --> 00:28:27,266
why is he saying these things?
658
00:28:27,266 --> 00:28:29,066
Why would he do that?
659
00:28:29,066 --> 00:28:31,634
It's not the information,
or disinformation,
660
00:28:31,634 --> 00:28:34,734
that these people claim
to have that's important.
661
00:28:34,734 --> 00:28:38,467
It's who they are
to the victim or the suspect.
662
00:28:38,467 --> 00:28:40,900
Why have they taken
such an interest in this case?
663
00:28:41,634 --> 00:28:44,634
Reggie Bakay,
his flippant comments
664
00:28:44,634 --> 00:28:47,734
raised suspicions
among investigators
665
00:28:47,734 --> 00:28:49,166
that he may be involved
666
00:28:49,166 --> 00:28:51,734
in the murders
of Harry and Elsie.
667
00:28:56,700 --> 00:28:58,734
[narrator] Two weeks after
the double homicide
668
00:28:58,734 --> 00:29:02,166
of Elsie Steppa
and her nephew Harry
669
00:29:02,166 --> 00:29:04,634
in tiny Ethelbert, Manitoba,
670
00:29:05,467 --> 00:29:07,266
Royal Canadian Mounted Police
671
00:29:07,266 --> 00:29:10,266
suspect a man who's been
badmouthing Harry in the news.
672
00:29:11,467 --> 00:29:13,166
Reggie Bakay.
673
00:29:13,166 --> 00:29:17,000
Reggie tells us how much
he hated Harry,
674
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,266
and how Harry was
constantly ranting and raving,
675
00:29:20,266 --> 00:29:22,367
and it got to the point
where he ended his friendship
676
00:29:22,367 --> 00:29:24,066
and relationship
with him completely.
677
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,967
He does say to me that,
678
00:29:26,967 --> 00:29:29,266
"I really didn't like Harry.
I didn't like him at all.
679
00:29:29,266 --> 00:29:30,433
But I would never kill him."
680
00:29:31,467 --> 00:29:33,367
[narrator] Reggie says
he would never harm
681
00:29:33,367 --> 00:29:34,634
Harry's aunt Elsie either,
682
00:29:35,967 --> 00:29:37,467
and adds that
he was out of town
683
00:29:37,467 --> 00:29:38,800
when they were both killed.
684
00:29:39,500 --> 00:29:41,266
[Laura] Reggie has an alibi.
685
00:29:41,266 --> 00:29:43,900
He was not around
during that time period.
686
00:29:44,734 --> 00:29:48,367
[narrator] As with Payton
and Jessica before,
687
00:29:48,367 --> 00:29:51,166
investigators strike
Reggie Bakay
688
00:29:51,166 --> 00:29:52,900
from their suspect list.
689
00:29:54,500 --> 00:29:54,566
[Laura] And that's when
Reggie tells me about
690
00:29:54,566 --> 00:29:56,734
[Laura] And that's when
Reggie tells me about
691
00:29:56,734 --> 00:29:59,467
another dispute that Harry had
with a local resident
692
00:29:59,467 --> 00:30:02,734
by the name of Clark Beach.
693
00:30:02,734 --> 00:30:04,967
[Laura] Harry accused Clark
of murdering
694
00:30:04,967 --> 00:30:06,800
a local in town.
695
00:30:07,867 --> 00:30:09,634
Does anyone have
enough of an issue with Harry
696
00:30:09,634 --> 00:30:12,100
to kill him
over these confrontations?
697
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:13,867
Maybe.
698
00:30:13,867 --> 00:30:17,233
So now I go looking for
Clark Beach.
699
00:30:24,166 --> 00:30:24,566
Clark Beach
is a local homeopath,
700
00:30:24,566 --> 00:30:26,734
Clark Beach
is a local homeopath,
701
00:30:26,734 --> 00:30:31,100
and Harry did not take kindly
to his naturopathic beliefs.
702
00:30:32,867 --> 00:30:36,367
Harry referred to
the homeopathic remedies
703
00:30:36,367 --> 00:30:37,967
as satanic.
704
00:30:37,967 --> 00:30:41,734
Clark Beach felt that he was
now being targeted by Harry.
705
00:30:41,734 --> 00:30:46,600
Harry had posted a message
on the town bulletin board
706
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:51,166
accusing Clark Beach
of murdering a resident
707
00:30:51,166 --> 00:30:53,266
with his satanic remedies.
708
00:30:54,266 --> 00:30:54,566
Harry followed up by sending
numerous threatening letters
709
00:30:54,566 --> 00:30:57,367
Harry followed up by sending
numerous threatening letters
710
00:30:57,367 --> 00:30:58,500
to Clark.
711
00:30:58,500 --> 00:31:00,867
[narrator] Investigators
consider the possibility
712
00:31:00,867 --> 00:31:04,634
Harry's persistent threats may
have driven Clark to violence.
713
00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:08,166
Interpersonal conflicts
in general
714
00:31:08,166 --> 00:31:10,066
are the number-one cause
of homicides,
715
00:31:10,066 --> 00:31:11,600
so perhaps
the threatening behavior
716
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,600
was something that Clark
wasn't prepared to deal with
717
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,000
and so took matters
into his own hands.
718
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:18,867
[narrator] But Clark insists
719
00:31:18,867 --> 00:31:22,066
he never saw Harry
as a threat.
720
00:31:22,066 --> 00:31:24,266
[Laura] Clark tells me
as much as the letters,
721
00:31:24,266 --> 00:31:24,566
you know,
obviously bothered him,
722
00:31:24,566 --> 00:31:27,000
you know,
obviously bothered him,
723
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,700
he chose to befriend Harry.
724
00:31:29,700 --> 00:31:33,066
He always sort of felt that
Harry was an underdog
in the community.
725
00:31:33,967 --> 00:31:36,166
Clark had an alibi
for the timeframe
726
00:31:36,166 --> 00:31:39,166
that I was now looking at,
and I felt pretty confident
727
00:31:39,166 --> 00:31:40,867
that he had nothing
to do with Harry's murder
728
00:31:40,867 --> 00:31:42,000
or Elsie's murder.
729
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,000
[narrator] With Clark Beach
ruled out,
730
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,734
investigators aren't sure
where to turn next.
731
00:31:47,734 --> 00:31:50,734
But in a town
of just 300 residents,
732
00:31:50,734 --> 00:31:54,266
it doesn't take long for
new suspicions to surface.
733
00:31:55,367 --> 00:31:56,533
[phone ringing]
734
00:31:56,533 --> 00:31:59,166
[narrator] One call grabs
the Mounties' attention.
735
00:31:59,166 --> 00:32:01,867
The call concerns
an earlier suspect
736
00:32:01,867 --> 00:32:04,500
named Payton Saari.
737
00:32:04,500 --> 00:32:06,734
[narrator] Payton's girlfriend
Jocelyn tells us
738
00:32:06,734 --> 00:32:09,500
about
a very strange conversation
739
00:32:09,500 --> 00:32:11,367
that she had with Payton.
740
00:32:11,367 --> 00:32:13,734
It was bothering her a lot
741
00:32:13,734 --> 00:32:16,533
since the discovery
of Harry's body.
742
00:32:18,166 --> 00:32:21,100
[narrator] The detectives
ask Jocelyn to meet them
for an interview.
743
00:32:24,166 --> 00:32:24,566
[Stan] She tells us that
on December 22nd,
744
00:32:24,566 --> 00:32:26,166
[Stan] She tells us that
on December 22nd,
745
00:32:26,166 --> 00:32:28,533
she and Payton
were at the Snack Shack.
746
00:32:29,367 --> 00:32:31,700
While they were outside
in their vehicle,
747
00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:33,734
Payton tells her
that he had gone
748
00:32:33,734 --> 00:32:35,634
to the dump that day
with Harry,
749
00:32:36,467 --> 00:32:39,166
and while he was
at the dump with Harry,
750
00:32:39,166 --> 00:32:40,800
he got into a fight.
751
00:32:41,867 --> 00:32:44,166
And that the last time
he saw Harry,
752
00:32:44,166 --> 00:32:45,634
Harry was still at the dump,
753
00:32:45,634 --> 00:32:47,734
and Payton walked home
from the dump.
754
00:32:49,066 --> 00:32:53,266
At first, Jocelyn didn't think
anything about this.
755
00:32:53,266 --> 00:32:54,566
And then when she hears that
Harry was murdered,
756
00:32:54,566 --> 00:32:56,166
And then when she hears that
Harry was murdered,
757
00:32:56,867 --> 00:32:59,166
she becomes concerned.
758
00:32:59,166 --> 00:33:01,600
When she talks to Payton
about it, Payton tells her
759
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,367
that the whole thing
was a lie,
760
00:33:03,367 --> 00:33:04,800
it was just a story
he made up.
761
00:33:06,066 --> 00:33:08,467
He wanted to test her to
make sure he could trust her
762
00:33:08,467 --> 00:33:10,800
to look after him
if he does anything bad.
763
00:33:12,266 --> 00:33:15,266
[Laura] This, to me,
is incredibly compelling.
764
00:33:15,266 --> 00:33:16,367
There's something here.
765
00:33:16,367 --> 00:33:19,367
Our next step is, well,
let's talk to Payton again.
766
00:33:19,367 --> 00:33:21,800
So we bring Payton in.
767
00:33:22,500 --> 00:33:24,566
And he laughs it off.
768
00:33:24,566 --> 00:33:24,867
And he laughs it off.
769
00:33:24,867 --> 00:33:27,367
He says, "Oh, that?
Yeah. That was a joke.
770
00:33:27,367 --> 00:33:28,600
I made that story up.
771
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,734
I wanted to just prank her
772
00:33:30,734 --> 00:33:32,066
and just to see
if I could trust her
773
00:33:32,066 --> 00:33:33,734
if anything ever happened
with us."
774
00:33:33,734 --> 00:33:37,467
So he kind of confirms
what he told to her.
775
00:33:37,467 --> 00:33:39,600
But it doesn't sit right,
776
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,467
'cause the story's just
getting stranger and stranger.
777
00:33:42,467 --> 00:33:44,166
[narrator]
Investigators ask Payton
778
00:33:44,166 --> 00:33:46,867
the same questions
they asked him last time.
779
00:33:46,867 --> 00:33:49,533
But now they listen for
any changes in his story.
780
00:33:50,734 --> 00:33:53,266
I ask Payton again
when he last saw Harry,
781
00:33:53,266 --> 00:33:54,566
and he says, "Oh, it was
about a week before
782
00:33:54,566 --> 00:33:56,734
and he says, "Oh, it was
about a week before
783
00:33:56,734 --> 00:33:58,734
you guys all came
to the house."
784
00:33:58,734 --> 00:34:01,333
So he's referring to when
the bodies were found.
785
00:34:02,533 --> 00:34:05,066
He says, "Yeah, I saw Harry
driving around that week,"
786
00:34:05,066 --> 00:34:07,000
just like everyone else said,
in that truck.
787
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,867
[narrator] But that's not
the story
788
00:34:08,867 --> 00:34:10,867
Payton shared earlier.
789
00:34:10,867 --> 00:34:13,467
Previously Payton said
he hadn't seen Harry
790
00:34:13,467 --> 00:34:16,600
since December 22nd
at the dump,
791
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:21,000
several weeks before police
discovered Harry's body.
792
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,867
[Dr. Arntfield] It's gonna
naturally pique
investigators' curiosity.
793
00:34:23,867 --> 00:34:24,566
But let's face it,
people get nervous,
794
00:34:24,566 --> 00:34:26,266
But let's face it,
people get nervous,
795
00:34:26,266 --> 00:34:28,500
uptight and annoyed frequently
796
00:34:28,500 --> 00:34:30,500
having to speak with
police investigators,
797
00:34:30,500 --> 00:34:33,266
and don't necessarily
remember things
798
00:34:33,266 --> 00:34:34,634
as they normally would.
799
00:34:34,634 --> 00:34:36,066
They often try
to remember things
800
00:34:36,066 --> 00:34:38,867
as they think they should.
801
00:34:38,867 --> 00:34:42,367
[Laura] I let him know that,
"You're acting suspicious,
802
00:34:42,367 --> 00:34:43,867
and I think you know more,
803
00:34:43,867 --> 00:34:45,867
or you have
something to do with it."
804
00:34:45,867 --> 00:34:48,533
[narrator] The Mounties
have one way to find out.
805
00:34:48,533 --> 00:34:50,467
We ask him to do a polygraph.
806
00:34:50,467 --> 00:34:53,066
[narrator] To their surprise,
Payton agrees,
807
00:34:53,066 --> 00:34:54,566
and schedules
to return in a week.
808
00:34:54,566 --> 00:34:55,500
and schedules
to return in a week.
809
00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:59,066
Now investigators consider
whether their second hunch
810
00:34:59,066 --> 00:35:01,266
about Payton has once again
led them astray,
811
00:35:01,266 --> 00:35:05,634
while the real double murderer
is still out there somewhere.
812
00:35:07,266 --> 00:35:08,367
We don't have any evidence
813
00:35:08,367 --> 00:35:11,266
or anything else
suggesting that
814
00:35:11,266 --> 00:35:12,433
Payton is a suspect.
815
00:35:15,634 --> 00:35:18,100
[narrator] While the Royal
Canadian Mounted Police
816
00:35:18,100 --> 00:35:19,800
prepare for a polygraph exam
817
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,100
scheduled for their
double homicide suspect
818
00:35:22,100 --> 00:35:23,634
Payton Saari,
819
00:35:23,634 --> 00:35:26,867
Payton himself calls
investigators, full of nerves.
820
00:35:26,867 --> 00:35:28,367
[phone ringing]
821
00:35:28,367 --> 00:35:30,166
[Laura] My phone rang.
822
00:35:30,166 --> 00:35:32,066
Payton said, "Officer Laura,
823
00:35:32,066 --> 00:35:34,800
I would like to confess
to killing those two people."
824
00:35:35,967 --> 00:35:38,467
[narrator] Payton also offers
a reason.
825
00:35:38,467 --> 00:35:41,800
[Laura] He says that
Harry freaked out,
826
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,166
called him a racial slur.
827
00:35:43,166 --> 00:35:44,695
Uh, Payton is
of First Nations descent,
828
00:35:44,695 --> 00:35:45,634
Uh, Payton is
of First Nations descent,
829
00:35:45,634 --> 00:35:47,734
and he was very upset
with that.
830
00:35:49,266 --> 00:35:50,800
Payton says he was so mad,
831
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,166
he grabbed
the closest thing nearby
832
00:35:53,166 --> 00:35:54,367
which was a 2x4,
833
00:35:54,367 --> 00:35:56,433
and he hit Harry in the head.
834
00:35:57,467 --> 00:35:59,533
[narrator] Investigators
are stunned,
835
00:35:59,533 --> 00:36:01,533
unsure if they can
really believe
836
00:36:01,533 --> 00:36:03,266
Payton's unprompted claim,
837
00:36:03,266 --> 00:36:05,533
and whether he could have
done the same
to Elsie
838
00:36:05,533 --> 00:36:08,266
who didn't have a mean bone
in her body.
839
00:36:08,266 --> 00:36:10,967
Still, it's enough
for Mounties to hold him
840
00:36:10,967 --> 00:36:12,900
while they search
for supporting evidence.
841
00:36:13,734 --> 00:36:14,695
[siren wailing]
842
00:36:14,695 --> 00:36:15,100
[siren wailing]
843
00:36:15,100 --> 00:36:17,066
[Laura] Our team heads over to
844
00:36:17,066 --> 00:36:18,634
the house
where Payton Saari lives
845
00:36:18,634 --> 00:36:20,066
with his family.
846
00:36:20,900 --> 00:36:22,734
In speaking with Payton's mom,
847
00:36:22,734 --> 00:36:25,367
she does talk about clothing
848
00:36:25,367 --> 00:36:27,166
that Payton would
normally wear,
849
00:36:27,166 --> 00:36:28,634
and she does talk about
850
00:36:28,634 --> 00:36:32,166
a red and blue
Columbia brand jacket.
851
00:36:32,166 --> 00:36:34,734
We did find that
red and blue winter jacket
852
00:36:34,734 --> 00:36:37,367
in the residence
of Elsie and Harry.
853
00:36:37,367 --> 00:36:40,166
[narrator] Confirming
that jacket was Payton's
854
00:36:40,166 --> 00:36:42,066
is drawing
circumstantial evidence
855
00:36:42,066 --> 00:36:44,695
linking Payton to
the Steppa house crime scene.
856
00:36:44,695 --> 00:36:44,800
linking Payton to
the Steppa house crime scene.
857
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,266
Investigators now return
to the Steppa house
858
00:36:50,266 --> 00:36:54,100
to look for anything else that
may link Payton to the crimes.
859
00:36:54,100 --> 00:36:55,967
[Laura] As our
identification unit
860
00:36:55,967 --> 00:36:58,533
are going through
Harry and Elsie's house,
861
00:36:58,533 --> 00:37:02,266
searching in the basement
of the residence,
862
00:37:02,266 --> 00:37:04,166
they come across a snowboard.
863
00:37:04,166 --> 00:37:06,734
And that is the snowboard
that we believe
864
00:37:06,734 --> 00:37:09,634
was stolen from Payton
at some point.
865
00:37:10,533 --> 00:37:12,734
Which starts to lend the fact
866
00:37:12,734 --> 00:37:14,695
that maybe there was
a real dispute
867
00:37:14,695 --> 00:37:14,734
that maybe there was
a real dispute
868
00:37:14,734 --> 00:37:17,166
between Payton and Harry.
869
00:37:17,166 --> 00:37:19,634
Is it something
that he would kill Harry over?
870
00:37:23,166 --> 00:37:25,634
[narrator] Payton now admits
he was at the Steppa home
871
00:37:25,634 --> 00:37:28,367
and also stole
and sold electronics.
872
00:37:28,367 --> 00:37:31,266
Surveillance video
from local pawn shops
873
00:37:31,266 --> 00:37:32,734
confirms his story.
874
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,967
[Laura] Payton was caught
on video selling items
875
00:37:36,967 --> 00:37:40,867
that were found
actually in Harry's residence.
876
00:37:40,867 --> 00:37:42,867
Gaming systems, electronics.
877
00:37:42,867 --> 00:37:44,695
Things that
Harry was known to steal.
878
00:37:44,695 --> 00:37:45,367
Things that
Harry was known to steal.
879
00:37:45,367 --> 00:37:47,533
[narrator] Payton sold
Harry's stolen property
880
00:37:47,533 --> 00:37:50,100
on February 15th,
two months after
881
00:37:50,100 --> 00:37:51,800
police believe
Harry was killed.
882
00:37:55,166 --> 00:37:57,266
With the evidence
confirming his story,
883
00:37:57,266 --> 00:38:00,734
Payton also confesses to
killing Harry's aunt Elsie
884
00:38:00,734 --> 00:38:03,533
and reveals
the remaining details.
885
00:38:04,634 --> 00:38:07,367
Investigators now know
exactly what happened
886
00:38:07,367 --> 00:38:10,367
the day Elsie Steppa and her
nephew Harry were murdered.
887
00:38:13,166 --> 00:38:14,695
[Stan] At approximately 2 p.m.
888
00:38:14,695 --> 00:38:15,634
[Stan] At approximately 2 p.m.
889
00:38:15,634 --> 00:38:18,367
Harry asks Payton
to help him take
890
00:38:18,367 --> 00:38:20,634
some pallets and garbage
to the dump.
891
00:38:21,367 --> 00:38:23,166
Harry offers to pay him $20
892
00:38:23,166 --> 00:38:24,967
and Payton agrees.
893
00:38:24,967 --> 00:38:27,734
[Laura] At 3 p.m.
Harry and Payton
894
00:38:27,734 --> 00:38:30,367
are at the Ethelbert
municipal waste site
895
00:38:30,367 --> 00:38:32,533
and they get into
a verbal altercation
896
00:38:32,533 --> 00:38:33,967
which turns physical.
897
00:38:35,867 --> 00:38:38,900
Payton hits him over the head
numerous times with a 2x4.
898
00:38:40,867 --> 00:38:42,533
[Stan] Payton is concerned
899
00:38:42,533 --> 00:38:44,695
that Harry's gonna survive
and tell the police
900
00:38:44,695 --> 00:38:44,734
that Harry's gonna survive
and tell the police
901
00:38:44,734 --> 00:38:46,100
about what happened.
902
00:38:46,100 --> 00:38:47,967
[Laura] He then
slits his throat...
903
00:38:49,367 --> 00:38:51,166
tosses him
into the bed of the truck,
904
00:38:51,166 --> 00:38:53,467
covers him with
three wooden pallets
905
00:38:53,467 --> 00:38:55,367
and some articles of clothing,
906
00:38:55,367 --> 00:38:58,000
and he gets into the truck
and drives away.
907
00:39:00,467 --> 00:39:02,367
At 4:15 p.m.
908
00:39:02,367 --> 00:39:04,367
Payton drives the truck back
909
00:39:04,367 --> 00:39:05,900
to Elsie and Harry's home.
910
00:39:07,066 --> 00:39:09,367
And as he's pulling
into the driveway,
911
00:39:09,367 --> 00:39:13,166
Elsie opens the side door.
912
00:39:13,166 --> 00:39:14,695
He realizes that he's now been
seen driving Harry's truck.
913
00:39:14,695 --> 00:39:17,867
He realizes that he's now been
seen driving Harry's truck.
914
00:39:17,867 --> 00:39:19,266
So he panics.
915
00:39:21,266 --> 00:39:23,100
He sees an axe
916
00:39:23,100 --> 00:39:25,100
just lying on the ground,
so he picks it up
917
00:39:25,100 --> 00:39:26,867
and bludgeons her.
918
00:39:28,066 --> 00:39:29,467
He pushes her in the house
919
00:39:29,467 --> 00:39:31,367
so that nobody will see
what's happening.
920
00:39:33,367 --> 00:39:36,734
He find a hammer and he hits
her in the back of the head.
921
00:39:39,266 --> 00:39:41,533
He then takes the drywall saw
922
00:39:41,533 --> 00:39:43,000
and slits her throat as well.
923
00:39:43,900 --> 00:39:44,695
[Stan] After Elsie was dead,
924
00:39:44,695 --> 00:39:45,800
[Stan] After Elsie was dead,
925
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,734
he put her into the bedroom
where she was found.
926
00:39:49,900 --> 00:39:52,266
And then he put the two dogs
in there with her,
927
00:39:52,266 --> 00:39:54,266
hoping that the dogs
would just quietly die.
928
00:40:02,367 --> 00:40:04,900
At approximately 5 p.m.
929
00:40:04,900 --> 00:40:06,467
Payton looked around the house
930
00:40:06,467 --> 00:40:07,533
to see what he could find
931
00:40:07,533 --> 00:40:09,634
to steal and sell
to somebody else.
932
00:40:10,900 --> 00:40:14,100
[Laura] He accidentally leaves
his red and blue coat.
933
00:40:16,100 --> 00:40:18,800
Payton tells me that he would
934
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,734
frequently return
to Harry's house,
935
00:40:21,734 --> 00:40:23,533
he would drive
the truck around.
936
00:40:23,533 --> 00:40:26,867
All the while, Harry's body
was in the back of the truck
937
00:40:26,867 --> 00:40:29,533
covered in snow and pallets.
938
00:40:29,533 --> 00:40:32,066
Payton tells me that
he made the decision
939
00:40:32,066 --> 00:40:34,533
to try to look like Harry
while he was driving the truck
940
00:40:34,533 --> 00:40:36,734
so he would wear
a big, black toque
941
00:40:36,734 --> 00:40:38,367
and Harry's sunglasses.
942
00:40:39,367 --> 00:40:42,367
He talks about seeing people
when he was driving,
943
00:40:42,367 --> 00:40:44,166
and he knew people thought
it was Harry.
944
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,634
[Stan] On May the 1st, 2013,
945
00:40:48,634 --> 00:40:50,100
Payton is arrested
946
00:40:50,100 --> 00:40:52,634
and charged with two counts
of first-degree murder.
947
00:40:54,166 --> 00:40:58,166
Payton was diagnosed with
paranoid schizophrenia.
948
00:40:58,166 --> 00:41:01,367
But the courts determined that
he was criminally responsible
949
00:41:01,367 --> 00:41:03,533
for the murders
of Harry and Elsie.
950
00:41:04,266 --> 00:41:06,266
Payton Saari is given
951
00:41:06,266 --> 00:41:08,266
a mandatory life sentence
952
00:41:08,266 --> 00:41:12,166
and his parole eligibility
is set at 20 years.
953
00:41:12,166 --> 00:41:14,266
This is
a very tragic situation
954
00:41:14,266 --> 00:41:14,695
'cause you can
certainly imagine how
955
00:41:14,695 --> 00:41:16,800
'cause you can
certainly imagine how
956
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,266
if these people had have had
greater support,
957
00:41:19,266 --> 00:41:21,266
how an outcome
would have been different.
958
00:41:21,266 --> 00:41:22,800
They're victims of a crime
959
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,000
which is almost like
a horror movie.
960
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,467
It really highlights
how we need to do better
961
00:41:27,467 --> 00:41:31,266
to help people
with mental health issues.
962
00:41:31,266 --> 00:41:34,100
[Laura] Two homicides
in the community of Ethelbert
963
00:41:34,100 --> 00:41:36,166
really kind of destroyed
a small town,
964
00:41:36,166 --> 00:41:39,634
their peaceful, kind of,
you know, country living.
965
00:41:39,634 --> 00:41:42,100
It was very hard
for people to understand
966
00:41:42,100 --> 00:41:43,634
how and why and who.
967
00:41:44,734 --> 00:41:47,734
[Stan] For five months nobody
knew what was going on.
968
00:41:47,734 --> 00:41:51,166
And to be able to tell people,
969
00:41:51,166 --> 00:41:54,367
whether it's victims
or community members,
what happened,
970
00:41:55,367 --> 00:41:56,734
that's a good feeling.
971
00:41:57,533 --> 00:41:59,333
And that's why I do what I do.
972
00:42:00,634 --> 00:42:04,066
[Laura] For Elsie, who I think
is the most innocent
in all of this,
973
00:42:04,066 --> 00:42:05,867
she was trying
to help her sister
974
00:42:05,867 --> 00:42:07,634
raise a tough nut, and look
how she ended up.