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[man] What is a fair punishment
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for murder?
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[ominous music plays]
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Thirty years ago, I killed a man.
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And for that crime,
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I was sentenced to death.
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If I would've been executed,
I would've deserved it.
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But God, I like to believe,
had a bigger plan and a purpose for me.
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People are gonna say:
"You should've died. You're not worthy."
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But God is my judge and my jury.
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I just ask that people give me a chance.
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Open your heart some time.
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Don't be so pre-judgmental.
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I'm a walking miracle,
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whether you wanna accept it,
or whether you don't.
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You can't take that from me.
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[opening theme music plays]
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[crickets chirping]
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[crows cawing]
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[cawing continues]
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[door slams shut]
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[man] Okay, I'll sit up
a bit more on the chair.
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Is that good?
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[rustling]
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[interviewer]
Dale, can you see me?
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Yes.
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My name is Dale Wayne Sigler.
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I was born...
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May the 10th, 1967.
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[slow electronic music plays]
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[Dale] I was born in
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Danville, Illinois.
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[wind rustling]
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In order to understand the whole story,
you have to understand
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where it all originated from.
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My mother was first married
with two other sons.
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My father met her when she
was going through a lot in her life.
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She was 15 years old
when she first got pregnant.
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And my mother was really a child
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trying to find her purpose
and place in life.
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A child having children.
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[dog barking]
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[Dale]
My father, he ended up losing his job.
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He became...
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very despondent,
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very frustrated.
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And he'd become real abusive,
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so that trickled down to his kids,
to my mother.
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[passive electronic music plays]
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[Dale] I've seen my mother
get beat up so bad by my father
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that...
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her eyes were black and blue.
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Lip split.
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Go to sleep with a butcher knife
under her pillow.
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'Cause she was afraid that...
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either...
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[exhales deeply]
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[voice trembles]
either her,
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or one of us kids...
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were gonna get hurt critically.
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[sniffs]
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[soft piano music plays]
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[Dale] Things happened
in my childhood that,
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you know, traumatized me
for the majority of my life.
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At the age of ten, I was molested
by someone in the family.
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And that's something that I held
in my heart all my life.
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And I couldn't talk to anyone.
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Every time I tried to,
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you know, it was rejection.
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One time, I tried talking to my mother
about what I went through as a child,
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and my mother couldn't deal
with the severity of it,
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and it was just overwhelming,
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and she went in her room
and shut the door.
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And at that time, it just--
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it just ate me up inside.
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Then and there,
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I just went all the way downhill.
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[ominous music plays]
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[traffic rushing]
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[Dale] When I moved to Texas,
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I fell back off into drugs
and stuff again.
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Hooked on cocaine,
methamphetamines, intravenously.
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Smoking speed, drinking.
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Living on the streets,
robbing, stealing, jacking.
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Did whatever I could do to survive.
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Life just seemed like it was over with,
and at that time,
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I told the Devil, I said:
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"You might as well have your way.
Let's see what you can do, Devil,
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because God don't care."
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[ominous music continues]
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[Dale] That day that I walked
into that Subway shop,
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a lot of things changed.
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[hurried ominous music plays]
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[Dale] I went in there,
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and said: "Now get up
and go empty the cash register."
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I told him to get the money
and put it in a bag.
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He was so terrified,
he run to the back room.
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[ominous music continues]
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When he run to the back room,
I ran back there.
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When he turned around, I shot him.
Six times in the chest.
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[somber music plays]
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[voice trembles]
I took John's life selfishly.
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[sniffs]
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I'll forever have to carry
that pain in my heart,
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for taking him away from his family.
[sniffs]
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I just wanna say to Mrs. Zeltner
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and her family that I apologize
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with my soul and my heart.
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[somber music continues]
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[sirens blaring]
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My name's Tommy Lenoir.
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In 1990, I was a homicide detective
with the Arlington Police Department.
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I've worked a lot of murders
in 26 years in the homicide unit,
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and you just never forget
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cases of this nature where
they're just so absolutely senseless
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and brutal.
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[slow brooding music plays]
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[Tommy] We're now at the location,
at the Subway, where the...
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capital murder occurred,
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back in April of 1990.
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When we went into the Subway,
the victim was found in a pool of blood,
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in the office area located
at the back of the sandwich shop
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[dramatic music plays]
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[Tommy] The fact that
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a murder occurred during the course
of a robbery is not unusual.
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We see that all of the time.
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The mere brutality of this case,
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the, what appeared to be execution-style
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killing of this victim,
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that's what made this remarkable.
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That's what took this to a higher level
than other cases of this nature.
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[Tommy] This was overkill.
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He was shot more times
than he needed to be shot.
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He was also shot in a very cowardly way.
He was shot in the back.
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And then when he fell to the ground
and was helpless, probably already dying,
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he shot more.
Well, that's what overkill is.
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It's someone who is, uh...
enjoying what they're doing.
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You can tell that they really are taking
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pleasure into the pain
and suffering that they're creating.
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[dramatic music plays]
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[water rushing]
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[man]
From the moment I got involved,
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I was convinced that the real issue
and the real battle in this case would be
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what is the appropriate punishment
to give Dale Sigler?
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We felt at the time, it was appropriate
to seek the death penalty because
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there was a possibility
that if we waive the death penalty,
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that he could in fact
be paroled after 15 years.
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And we just didn't think
that was enough time.
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All murders are bad,
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there's no such thing
as a good murder, but,
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the facts and circumstances of this case
were particularly heinous, I thought.
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[Greg] John Zeltner,
at the time he was murdered,
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was about three or four weeks shy
of his 31st birthday.
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The manager that we spoke with
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and the fellow employees
that we spoke with
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about John Zeltner,
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all described him as
a hard-working employee, a nice young man.
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[crickets chirping]
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[Greg] Dale Sigler knew
that John Zeltner was gonna be
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at the Subway sandwich shop working alone,
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but he chose the Subway sandwich shop.
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And he chose to rob somebody
who actually knew him.
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[ominous music builds]
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[Greg] And Dale Sigler went
into the sandwich shop, sat down,
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had a conversation with John Zeltner,
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bummed a cigarette off of John Zeltner.
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You know, talked about a few things.
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Uh... and then just minutes later,
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summarily executes him
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for whatever money
was in the cash register.
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That's pretty cold-hearted, in my mind.
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[ominous music plays]
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[Greg] I think Dale, in his state of mind,
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when he went in there, thought:
"Don't leave any witnesses",
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and Dale knew that John Zeltner
could identify him
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and tell the police within five minutes
after he walked out of that
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Subway sandwich shop that:
"Hey, the guy that robbed me,
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believe it or not, is a guy I know.
His name is Dale Sigler."
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Sometimes the most simplest
of explanations
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is in fact the best explanation.
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[soft dramatic music plays]
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[electricity buzzing]
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[ominous music plays]
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I went to death row in '91.
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[lock clicks]
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[Dale] When they came and got me,
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they put me on a chain with everyone else.
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Started walking towards death row...
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and, uh...
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when we hit the hallway,
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one of the officers said:
"Dead man walking", like on Green Mile,
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like it was a joke or something.
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You know, that's...
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when it really hit me,
the ramifications of my choices.
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[door slams shut echoing]
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I turned my life around
when I went to death row.
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On death row that first day,
I cried out to God.
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I said: "God, my whole life
you've been there for me.
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You reached out to me
when I was a child."
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I said: "God, manifest your life, please.
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Show me that you're all-powerful.
Allow your light to shine on me, God.
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Show me that I have a purpose."
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[inmates chattering]
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[Dale] That's when I started
hearing a little voice,
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telling me:
"Just be still, it's gonna be okay."
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And, uh...
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that was...
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that was God.
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So I started striving to try
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to not give up.
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[Dale] If I would've been executed,
I would've deserved it.
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But God, I like to believe,
had a bigger plan and a purpose for me.
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[Dale] I've been incarcerated now,
27 years,
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five months.
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I came in here when I was 21 years old.
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A lost, disturbed child.
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I'm a 50-year-old man now,
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that has striven to better himself,
to rehabilitate himself.
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I see God daily.
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I study God's word three
to four hours every day.
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I try to mentor the people.
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I try to reach out to people.
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My whole destiny has been paved
before me by the word of God.
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I'm living testimony
and a walking miracle.
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All praise and glory
to my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ,
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and from now on, I will walk in His grace.
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[Greg]
The most unique thing,
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I think, about this case,
is why the case got reversed.
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I would have to say that Dale Sigler's
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probably a very lucky man,
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because but for this...
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change in the jury selection law
that they applied retroactively,
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I think there's a very high likelihood
that Dale Sigler would've been executed
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sometime in the 90's
in the state of Texas.
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[machine creaking]
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-[machine creaking]
-[cow mooing]
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[soft piano music plays]
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[birds chirping]
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[woman] Angel, Tilly, somebody.
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Come on.
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Tilly!
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The first time I met Dale
was at the Wayne Scott Unit
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in Angleton.
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I was there visiting my stepson...
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when Dale walked through the door.
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Pete introduced us, and it was like...
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this was a really
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sweet man.
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Come here. Mama's good.
Oh, that's my girl.
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You hungry? Huh?
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My name is Carole,
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and I'm 71 years old.
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I live by myself in a mobile home
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in rural Texas.
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Miss Kitty is probably around 16,
256
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:24,680
maybe 17 years old.
257
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,360
She is the old lady of the house, like me.
258
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,280
And I have three others.
259
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:31,920
This is Ebony.
260
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:37,320
She's the one I found in the cemetery
and raised her from basically a newborn.
261
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:38,360
That's my girl.
262
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,520
I've always been a person
that wanted to help the helpless,
263
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,040
and the discarded ones.
264
00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:49,520
I guess it's always been
part of my nature.
265
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,400
It's like they need me,
266
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,320
and to a point, I need them.
267
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:56,240
Huh.
268
00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,120
And it's basically
the same way with people.
269
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:09,200
[Carole] Dale and I became pen pals
when my stepson asked me if I would
270
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:10,600
write to him.
271
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,120
So we've been writing back and forth
to each other for nine years.
272
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:20,120
I probably have somewhere
around 200 plus letters from him.
273
00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:24,480
[soft piano music plays]
274
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:29,040
He always starts his letters
off to me the same-- [inhales]
275
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,560
the same way:
"God bless you and keep you always
276
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:34,920
within the loving grasp of His hand."
277
00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:40,880
[Carole] "I am here at Carol Vance Unit."
This is when he first got there.
278
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,920
"But I'm excited
to get started in the program.
279
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,880
I was given a job in the laundry
but haven't started yet."
280
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,240
[Carole] Our relationship
281
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:52,960
developed over the years.
282
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,640
I was able to go visit him,
283
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,640
and so we got to know each other more.
284
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,960
He really doesn't have
anybody else in Texas, so...
285
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,720
I kind of stepped in to be there for him.
286
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,240
And that's when
he started calling me "Mama Carole".
287
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:14,240
I was-- I am his
288
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,840
second mom, according to him.
289
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,160
[soft music continues]
290
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:21,840
"Dear Mama Carole...
291
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,240
[voice trembles] God bless you
and keep you always..." [exhales]
292
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:32,720
"God is good, Mama."
293
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,520
[Carole]
Between visits and letters,
294
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,800
we have really opened up to each other.
295
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,840
"You are a precious gift
from my Heavenly Father.
296
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:46,840
My guardian angel,
297
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,240
wondrously poised
within God's gracious love."
298
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,120
And he wrote on here: "831."
299
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:56,800
And that stands for
300
00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,840
eight letters, three words...
301
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:01,720
one meaning:
302
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:03,880
"I love you."
303
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:08,240
[Carole] He's a special man.
304
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,200
[bell ringing]
305
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,120
[train whistling]
306
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,440
[birds chirping]
307
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,520
[guitar music plays]
308
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,160
[Carole]
I can't remember exactly when Dale
309
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,080
asked me if
310
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,280
it was okay for him
to parole to my house,
311
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,160
but I could tell
when he first started to ask me
312
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,520
he was very shy about it,
313
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:16,360
because I think he was afraid
I would say: "Oh, no, no, no."
314
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,320
[Carole] I had my reservations
for a moment,
315
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,760
but then I thought:
"Well... what's the right thing to do?"
316
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,400
Uh, and I basically...
317
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,360
quickly asked God for,
you know, an answer,
318
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,760
and God was saying: "This man needs you",
319
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:38,040
and,
320
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,200
that's why I went ahead
and said: "Okay, yeah."
321
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,760
[Carole]
That's all I wanna do, is just help him...
322
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:47,560
start over.
323
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,320
[wind howling]
324
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,200
[crickets chirping]
325
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,000
[pensive piano music playing]
326
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:25,760
Put it around my neck?
327
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:30,480
[interviewer]
Well,
328
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,200
today you got some news.
329
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:34,360
Yes, sir, uh...
330
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,000
Today I found out that, um...
331
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:39,680
I'm getting ready to go home.
332
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:41,600
Uh... [sighs]
333
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:42,840
[sniffs]
334
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:45,400
Tuesday.
335
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:47,240
Uh...
336
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,160
This is my 30th year incarcerated.
337
00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:51,960
And it's...
338
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:53,640
it's such a blessing,
339
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,240
'cause I never thought
that I'd see this day.
340
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:58,600
I was just overjoyed.
341
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,200
Uh... still am...
342
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:02,800
emotional.
343
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:04,600
A little fear,
344
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,040
[voice trembles]
'cause I've been gone so long.
345
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,720
I just praise and thank God
346
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,360
that he's given me a second chance.
347
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:17,160
[slow guitar music playing]
348
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,320
[Dale] The hardest thing is gonna be
349
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:21,600
actually trying to adapt,
350
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,520
because I've been isolated
in a small community
351
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:25,760
inside of a community.
352
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,640
People tell me all the time
that you really can't fathom
353
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:34,800
what life is like,
354
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,560
what society's like,
how much it has changed.
355
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,560
People have told me that they went
356
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,880
to the mall, and the colors
and the movement just made them sick.
357
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,600
I mean, when I was out there,
there was no cell phones.
358
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,600
I mean, there's so many things
in society that were non-existent
359
00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:54,240
when I walked in here.
360
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,920
[Dale] Carole Whitworth is a blessing,
361
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:01,720
because without Mama Carole,
362
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,440
I wouldn't have a place to call home.
363
00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:05,960
[sniffs]
364
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:07,520
Mama Carole is a rock.
365
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,640
She's a good old country girl,
but she's strong,
366
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:11,800
she has integrity,
367
00:27:12,120 --> 00:27:13,280
love, honor.
368
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,960
I mean, she is just such a blessing to me.
369
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:22,400
[wind rustling]
370
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,680
[Dale]
I know it's gonna be an uphill battle.
371
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,840
People will believe that you're a monster,
372
00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:29,480
that you're an animal,
373
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,880
that you have not changed,
that you cannot change.
374
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,320
But one day, those hearts will change.
375
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:37,840
I firmly believe that,
376
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,160
because I'm not the lost, disturbed,
emotional child that I once was.
377
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,680
I'm a grown, focused,
378
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,280
purposeful individual, man of God now.
379
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,760
[Dale] I just ask that people
just give me a chance,
380
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,280
because time is a revealer of all things.
381
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,680
[soft piano music playing]
382
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,440
[water running]
383
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,240
Johnnie Bill was one of the nicest people
you'd ever meet.
384
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,800
He'd be sitting over there,
drinking Keystone beer,
385
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,320
making somebody laugh,
telling a joke or something.
386
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,440
Definitely a people person.
387
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,360
My name is Forest Allan Zeltner.
388
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,040
Johnnie Bill's actually our half-brother.
389
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:51,760
He was my father's
390
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:53,120
firstborn son.
391
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,000
[Forest] His name
was John William Zeltner,
392
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:58,400
named after my father,
393
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,160
but everybody that knew him
called him Johnnie Bill.
394
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,680
[Forest] Johnnie Bill sought out us,
and we were able to meet him.
395
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,200
Instantly, there was a bond
and connection between me and him.
396
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:23,920
We were very close.
397
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,800
[Forest] John was just a fun-loving guy.
398
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:29,840
Everybody wanted to be around him.
399
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,280
He lived to help everyone else.
400
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,120
You know, a lot of people
that knew my brother
401
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,800
knew that he was gay,
and that he was open about it.
402
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,920
My father knew it,
everybody in my family knew it.
403
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,560
We were all accepted of it,
and we just realized that's Johnnie Bill,
404
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,880
and that's the way it's gonna be,
and he's...
405
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,160
just Johnnie Bill. Still love him.
406
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,240
My name is John Harlan Zeltner.
407
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,800
Johnnie Bill, he come into my life
when I was about 16 years old,
408
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,000
you know, and we talked on a daily basis.
409
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:03,000
I mean, every day.
410
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,240
Never had a cross word.
Not one time, about anything.
411
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,120
That's rare, you know.
[chuckles]
412
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,040
[soft guitar music plays]
413
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,800
[Forest]
Yeah, we really miss him a lot.
414
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,480
You don't realize how fast life goes.
415
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,560
You think your time here is forever,
it's really not.
416
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,480
At any given moment, you could be...
417
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:31,200
out.
418
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:33,560
Next minute, you could be dead.
419
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:36,760
[water running]
420
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:41,000
[Forest] It was hard. It was really hard
hearing that your brother is now dead.
421
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:43,320
It was very hard for me,
422
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:44,960
it was very hard for my father,
423
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,720
and it was very hard
for my younger brother.
424
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,480
I was pissed. Yeah, I was pissed.
425
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,280
I mean, I had some thoughts in my head,
426
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,920
that I would have liked
to have done, but I didn't.
427
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,080
[John] When I heard that he got
death sentence, I was happy about it,
428
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:03,440
but at the same time,
429
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,520
I wanted the death sentence
to happen right then and there.
430
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:07,560
I wanted him gone.
431
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,360
When I found out he wasn't gonna get
death sentence, that it went back to...
432
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:15,920
pissed off again.
433
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:19,240
He shouldn't be alive.
434
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:20,400
Now he gets to walk?
435
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,240
No. I don't feel the system's
done right there.
436
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,320
[brooding music plays]
437
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,600
[Forest]
When I found out he was paroled,
438
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,160
it was like the nightmare
starting all over again.
439
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,040
We weren't even notified.
440
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:40,240
Nobody told us.
441
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:41,960
Nobody said anything about it.
442
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,440
[Forest] I really believe
the justice system failed us.
443
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,160
[John] I think it's bullshit.
444
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,480
I think the state of Texas needs to
reevaluate their whole judicial system,
445
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:54,240
you know, 100%.
446
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:55,760
You kill somebody like that,
447
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,960
you should never see the light of day.
Never.
448
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,320
I believe he is a huge risk to society.
449
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,520
I believe he will kill again.
450
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:08,760
Soon.
451
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,280
[crickets chirping]
452
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,000
[dog barking]
453
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,120
[Carole] This is Dale's room.
454
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,360
It's gonna be a lot bigger
than what he's used to.
455
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:48,400
[Carole] For Dale,
456
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:49,880
he's always
457
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,080
gonna have that label of being a murderer.
458
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,400
And a lot of people
are not gonna give him
459
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:58,760
the opportunity or the chance
460
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,160
to let them see the type
of person he is now.
461
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,160
My family had their reservations.
462
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,240
Their main concern is he killed somebody,
463
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,160
so he might kill me.
464
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,320
They've actually said,
"Are you nuts? Are you crazy? Why?"
465
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:22,720
They don't understand why.
466
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:25,880
They're gonna take some convincing.
467
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:29,760
So how long has Dale been in prison?
468
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:30,960
Thirty years.
469
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:32,800
-For what?
-Murder.
470
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:34,680
Who'd he-- No...
471
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,200
-Huh?
-I don't know.
472
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,200
How many times you went to see him?
473
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:42,920
I went to see him
474
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,480
maybe three or four times?
475
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,320
I've been to see him twice...
476
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:48,960
No, three times
477
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,400
since he's been locked up
at this unit he's at now.
478
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:54,920
I know you have concerns and all that.
479
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,560
You were afraid that
since he murdered somebody,
480
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,200
that he would murder again.
You know, he would kill somebody again.
481
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,360
And uh-uh.
482
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:05,320
He won't do that.
483
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,080
In prison right now,
they call him "The Gentle Giant".
484
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:10,280
-Really?
-Yes.
485
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:15,840
-[Shannon] Love you, Granny.
-I love you, too.
486
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:17,800
[Carole] Bye, baby. Mm.
487
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,240
[Carole]
Everything's gonna be just fine.
488
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,160
Y'all come over and see Dale,
489
00:34:23,240 --> 00:34:24,760
and visit with him for a bit.
490
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:25,960
You'll be fine.
491
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,760
-Let me know when he gets here.
-I will.
492
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,800
[Shannon]
Carole, she's a good lady. She's nice,
493
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,360
so I guess she sees the good in people.
494
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:45,960
She'd rather they be good than bad.
495
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:47,120
She's good-hearted,
496
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,880
and I just don't want the guy
497
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:52,760
to be some crazy, try to kill us,
498
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,880
or her, or anyone.
499
00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:59,600
I don't think he's gonna do that--
500
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,840
You don't even know him,
so how do you know?
501
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:04,920
People change.
502
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:07,120
Not really.
503
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,880
[dramatic music plays]
504
00:35:23,720 --> 00:35:25,040
I got up at four,
505
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,280
for the alarm was going off,
506
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:31,120
and I felt like I had just gone to sleep.
507
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,960
I thought: "Really? Already."
508
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,400
I can feel the emotions building.
509
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,080
[chuckles]
And it's like:
510
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,600
"Calm down, keep it under control,
511
00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:47,720
everything's gonna be great."
512
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:53,120
But I know when I get there,
and I actually see Dale,
513
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,520
that it's gonna hit me full force then.
514
00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:59,680
Definitely is gonna be
515
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,720
a special moment that...
516
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:04,920
we'll never forget.
517
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,000
[dramatic music continues]
518
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:10,880
[Carole] I've had
519
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,520
this fleeting kind of moments of
520
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:16,720
doubt.
521
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,200
It might hit me for a moment,
then I just put it out of my head.
522
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,920
I don't wanna think
that I made the wrong decision.
523
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,280
Well, we're just now
coming up to the unit,
524
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:36,600
so... [sighs]
525
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:37,640
This is the turn.
526
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:44,360
[Carole] I don't know how to explain it,
but I feel that he has changed, and...
527
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,160
he's not that man anymore.
I feel it deep down inside.
528
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:50,840
Everything's gonna be fine.
It's gonna be perfect.
529
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,600
If Dale is doing all this
to take advantage of me,
530
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,880
then he's got his reward waiting for him
531
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:03,800
on Judgment Day.
532
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,680
[closing music plays]