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Goldberg: An FBI raid over
cutout coupons?
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00:00:03,804 --> 00:00:05,744
You gotta see it to believe it.
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00:00:05,839 --> 00:00:08,479
How did a mother of three
turn clipping
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00:00:08,575 --> 00:00:11,775
into a $31 million rip-off?
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00:00:11,879 --> 00:00:13,779
Did I hear that right?
Like, $31 million?
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00:00:13,881 --> 00:00:15,421
Everybody knows you pick up
a pair of scissors,
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you cut out coupons,
you go to the store,
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00:00:17,551 --> 00:00:18,851
but there is a darker side
to couponing.
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00:00:18,952 --> 00:00:21,452
"Oh, you’re getting 89 of these
free?
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00:00:21,555 --> 00:00:23,595
Yeah, that makes sense to me."
Boop boop.
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Miller: Get a little e-mail
that basically said,
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00:00:25,859 --> 00:00:29,599
"I know somebody who’s creating
a lot of counterfeit coupons."
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It’s impossible
to know they’re fake.
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Thomasson:
I started monitoring the mail,
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and the return address
was MasterChef Designs.
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Probably ’cause they’re
cooking up them coupons.
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There were counterfeit coupons
in every crevice of the house.
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We dug through her trash.
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Looking for coupons.
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I guess I can call her
the Virginia Beach Robin Hood.
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[ Laughs ]
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00:00:54,721 --> 00:00:56,461
Goldberg: Robin Hood?
Hold up.
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Is she taking from the rich,
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or is she making herself rich
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with some do-it-yourself
counterfeiting?
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This is the largest coupon fraud
case in the history of coupons.
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Miller: MasterChef
needed to be stopped.
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She conned America.
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I’m Whoopi Goldberg,
and this is "The Con."
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[ Cash register beeps ]
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♪
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We needed someone who could read
the fine print of a coupon con,
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so we got Laci Mosley,
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00:01:32,359 --> 00:01:35,399
known to her fans
as Scam Goddess.
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Mosley: I think a lot of times
when you’re dealing with
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scammers or con artists,
ambition really is the downfall.
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Ambition can be tied to greed
and wanting more
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and wanting to be successful,
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but it can also be tied
to wanting to be acknowledged.
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And I think that’s what
everybody wants in this life,
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is to be seen
and to feel important.
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There’s a lot of layers to this.
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This isn’t just a woman
who was a bored housewife
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who decided to commit fraud.
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♪
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We’re talking about Lori Talens.
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She’s a woman of color.
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00:02:06,426 --> 00:02:08,796
She spent most of her
childhood destabilized,
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moving around the country.
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00:02:10,864 --> 00:02:12,574
Her father was
oftentimes deployed,
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and her mother
was a single mother
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00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,570
basically taking care
of two kids.
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Eventually, Lori Ann makes
her way to Virginia Beach.
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She’s staying very close
to a military base.
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There’s a huge
Filipino community out there.
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Goldberg: Being a military brat
meant Lori Ann
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00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,720
had to quickly
fit into new social groups,
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00:02:29,816 --> 00:02:32,716
and Virginia Beach
was no exception.
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Orpilla: As far as the Filipino
community in Virginia Beach,
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a lot of the kids
have grown up together
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so we have each other’s back
and support each other.
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When I met Lori,
I think we were at least 18.
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I do remember eating
at Olive Garden,
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and so that was
the beginning of our friendship.
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Goldberg: But Lori didn’t just
hustle to make friends,
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she was driven to succeed
in just about everything.
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00:02:54,741 --> 00:02:58,111
Orpilla:
Lori, as a late teenager,
was really into fixing cars.
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00:02:58,145 --> 00:02:59,755
She actually wanted
to know the mechanics
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and be able
to fix them herself.
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And because she was also
attractive,
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that started her foray
into car modeling.
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She’s gorgeous,
but is she smart?
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Yeah, she was.
She was very business-minded.
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She always knows
what she’s doing.
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She was always planning
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and always had, like,
a bigger picture,
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and she wanted
a really good life.
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If she tried to do something,
she’d always make sure
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00:03:17,864 --> 00:03:19,504
that she was always
the best at doing it.
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Mosley: That kind of magnetism
that she had
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00:03:22,135 --> 00:03:25,835
led her to bringing more women
into the car modeling industry
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00:03:25,939 --> 00:03:29,179
and even becoming
a car modeling agent.
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As her business expanded,
she was marketing.
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00:03:32,579 --> 00:03:34,779
She was reaching out to people,
she was creating business cards,
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00:03:34,815 --> 00:03:38,755
and that created an interest
for her in graphic design.
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Goldberg: Lori Ann was thriving
in Virginia Beach.
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00:03:41,154 --> 00:03:44,024
She married her husband,
Pacifico, in 2010
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and quickly added
a couple of kids.
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With a combined income
of over six figures,
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they were living
the American dream.
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Bopp: When I first moved
to Virginia Beach,
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I was in the Navy.
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I was an aviation
maintenance administrator.
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So just live, work, that’s it.
[ Laughs ]
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00:04:00,140 --> 00:04:04,240
Lori Ann and I met through
one of my friends
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that was in the Navy with me.
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When I met her,
she was pretty successful,
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00:04:08,849 --> 00:04:10,479
but at the same time,
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she wanted to spend time
with her family.
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00:04:12,786 --> 00:04:15,956
At the time, her son was 3
and so was mine,
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00:04:16,056 --> 00:04:18,016
and when we were
hanging out together,
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she was always cooking.
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I would always complain to her
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00:04:20,927 --> 00:04:22,297
that she was trying
to make me fat.
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[ Laughs ]
She loved to cook.
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00:04:24,965 --> 00:04:27,935
Actually, my son,
he loves food,
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so he’s like,
"You’re a MasterChef.
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I love how you cook."
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And she’s actually
one of my best friends.
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Lori Ann definitely
was the full package.
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00:04:37,677 --> 00:04:40,177
She likes nice things, you know?
Who doesn’t, right?
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00:04:40,247 --> 00:04:43,317
You have to have the nice
things in order to look good.
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00:04:43,383 --> 00:04:45,423
She always had her nails,
her hair done,
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00:04:45,519 --> 00:04:47,789
and she was always
dressed to impress.
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If she was to go to sleep
and wake up,
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she’d be ready
to go out the door.
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♪
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Goldberg: In 2014,
Lori was put on bed rest
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00:04:56,363 --> 00:04:58,633
while pregnant
with her third child.
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00:04:58,698 --> 00:05:03,598
Pacifico’s electrician salary
was their only source of income.
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00:05:03,670 --> 00:05:05,940
Orpilla: Lori, when she got
pregnant with her daughter,
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00:05:06,006 --> 00:05:07,466
she had bad edema.
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00:05:07,541 --> 00:05:09,781
She had the edema
in her legs and feet,
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00:05:09,843 --> 00:05:12,053
so her legs were really swollen
and everything like that,
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00:05:12,112 --> 00:05:14,152
and at that time, I believe
she was the breadwinner
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00:05:14,214 --> 00:05:15,784
because she had all
the different businesses,
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00:05:15,849 --> 00:05:17,519
and that’s how they were
making their income.
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00:05:17,584 --> 00:05:20,254
So that really hurt them,
you know?
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00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,860
This is where she starts
to get a little stir-crazy.
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When you’re used
to being successful,
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running your own business,
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00:05:27,093 --> 00:05:28,533
and being this
excellent salesman,
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it kinda feels like
such a waste of potential
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00:05:30,330 --> 00:05:32,600
to just be laying up in bed
eating cheese curls
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00:05:32,699 --> 00:05:34,899
waiting for this
freeloading baby to pop out.
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00:05:34,968 --> 00:05:36,868
[ Indistinct talking on TV ]
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00:05:36,970 --> 00:05:38,340
While she’s on bed rest,
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she’s flipping through
TV channels,
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and what does she see?
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00:05:42,075 --> 00:05:44,175
"Extreme Couponing."
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00:05:44,277 --> 00:05:45,947
And I think that
gave her ideas because,
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one, it was accessible.
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00:05:47,681 --> 00:05:49,651
She could get coupons,
bring them to her home.
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00:05:49,716 --> 00:05:53,746
He spent nothing out of pocket
for 100% savings.
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00:05:53,820 --> 00:05:57,590
But two, she’s not working
and she wanted to save money,
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00:05:57,657 --> 00:05:59,527
or maybe even needed
to save money.
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00:05:59,593 --> 00:06:00,693
What is our total?
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00:06:00,794 --> 00:06:02,204
Zero, zero, zero.
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00:06:02,262 --> 00:06:04,632
[ Cheers and applause ]
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00:06:04,698 --> 00:06:06,598
This was the perfect thing
for her.
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00:06:06,666 --> 00:06:08,626
Bopp:
After she was off bed rest,
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00:06:08,702 --> 00:06:11,002
she started doing
some couponing,
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00:06:11,104 --> 00:06:13,114
and I was like,
"Oh, I wanna learn."
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’Cause who doesn’t wanna buy
a whole bunch of things
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for like a dollar?
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She was cutting up coupons,
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and we would be running around
to different stores.
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Of course, it’s very exhausting
to do that.
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Goldberg: Not as tiresome
as waiting behind
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00:06:28,021 --> 00:06:31,691
one of those deal chasers
in the checkout line.
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Lori Ann did the couponing
because it was lucrative.
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She wanted to give
more to her family
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without being away from them.
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Walton:
So Lori starts getting into
this extreme couponing thing,
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and she has a knack for it.
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She starts her own
couponing group called
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00:06:48,441 --> 00:06:51,411
757 Couponing Brags and Deals,
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00:06:51,511 --> 00:06:52,981
and people start joining,
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and sharing in her
love and passion and zeal
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for extreme couponing.
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Goldberg: These clippers take
their savings very seriously,
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00:07:00,987 --> 00:07:04,587
and Lori emerges
as a coupon queen.
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She was always willing
to help others.
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00:07:06,593 --> 00:07:09,863
She would donate
to the dog shelters
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00:07:09,930 --> 00:07:12,400
or, like, I remember seeing
boxes of things
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00:07:12,465 --> 00:07:14,965
that was going to church.
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Orpilla:
When my husband passed away --
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00:07:16,469 --> 00:07:17,939
he died,
he had a heart attack --
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00:07:18,038 --> 00:07:19,568
she came and brought me
bags of stuff,
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00:07:19,639 --> 00:07:21,439
so I’m looking at it
and I’m like,
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00:07:21,508 --> 00:07:23,008
"Oh, that must be
from her couponing."
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I mean, there was, like,
shampoo bottles, lotion, ramen,
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00:07:28,315 --> 00:07:31,125
various miscellaneous stuff,
toothbrush, toothpaste.
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She hung out with me till like
3:00 or 4:00 in the morning.
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She was there to console me,
you know,
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00:07:36,323 --> 00:07:37,493
at, like, my darkest hour.
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My husband just passed away,
you know?
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Not many people would do that,
and she did that for me.
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Goldberg: Lori used coupons
to spread the love,
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00:07:45,532 --> 00:07:47,702
but how exactly do they work?
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00:07:47,734 --> 00:07:49,904
Does anybody out there
understand the coupon?
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00:07:49,970 --> 00:07:52,100
I need somebody
to explain this to me.
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Cataldo: I teach consumers
to coupon via workshops.
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00:07:54,474 --> 00:07:55,744
I write a syndicated
weekly column
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00:07:55,809 --> 00:07:57,109
which runs all over the country,
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00:07:57,210 --> 00:07:58,580
and I also work
on the industry side,
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00:07:58,645 --> 00:08:01,315
helping brands understand
how consumers use their coupons.
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00:08:01,348 --> 00:08:02,978
I mentioned in one of
my blog posts to my readers
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00:08:03,049 --> 00:08:04,719
that I have
a black belt in tae kwon do.
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00:08:04,784 --> 00:08:05,924
One of my readers
came back and says,
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00:08:06,019 --> 00:08:07,649
"Well, you’ve had one
in couponing for years."
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00:08:07,721 --> 00:08:10,291
So yes, I have a black belt
in couponing, too.
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00:08:10,357 --> 00:08:14,027
Goldberg:
Wow, a black belt couponer.
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00:08:14,127 --> 00:08:16,057
Many consumers don’t know
the ins and outs
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00:08:16,162 --> 00:08:17,462
of how coupons work.
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00:08:17,564 --> 00:08:19,474
You cut the coupon,
you hand it to the cashier,
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00:08:19,566 --> 00:08:20,796
you save your dollar.
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00:08:20,900 --> 00:08:22,670
What happens after that?
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00:08:22,769 --> 00:08:24,469
The store takes that coupon
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00:08:24,571 --> 00:08:26,271
and submits
it to a clearinghouse.
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00:08:26,373 --> 00:08:27,543
They actually get
that dollar back
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00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,710
from the manufacturer
of the product.
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00:08:29,809 --> 00:08:32,039
I consider coupons
a win-win-win --
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00:08:32,145 --> 00:08:34,185
I’ve saved a dollar, my store
has still sold the product
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00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:35,950
for the price
that they want to get for it,
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00:08:36,049 --> 00:08:37,179
they get the dollar back,
217
00:08:37,283 --> 00:08:39,293
and the brand has
invested that dollar
218
00:08:39,386 --> 00:08:41,386
in me having the product
in my house.
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00:08:41,488 --> 00:08:44,188
Aside from the aspect
of saving money, it’s exciting,
220
00:08:44,290 --> 00:08:45,560
and when you start watching
your bill
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00:08:45,658 --> 00:08:48,028
come down and down and down,
there is a definite thrill
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00:08:48,128 --> 00:08:49,398
that keeps you doing this.
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00:08:49,496 --> 00:08:50,856
Goldberg: A perfect system,
224
00:08:50,964 --> 00:08:53,274
but what happens
when you add a con artist?
225
00:08:53,366 --> 00:08:55,996
Spoiler alert --
not everybody wins.
226
00:08:56,002 --> 00:09:06,852
Goldberg: Coupons have
an obsessive following
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00:09:06,946 --> 00:09:09,076
for people like Lori Ann Talens.
228
00:09:09,182 --> 00:09:11,382
Who are these people
with the scissors?
229
00:09:11,484 --> 00:09:12,924
You know, everyone has
this mental picture
230
00:09:13,019 --> 00:09:14,249
when you say "couponing"
of a mom
231
00:09:14,354 --> 00:09:16,194
sitting at the kitchen table
with a pair of scissors,
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00:09:16,289 --> 00:09:18,089
and there are plenty of us
doing that.
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00:09:18,191 --> 00:09:20,291
But when you start to look
at the demographics
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00:09:20,393 --> 00:09:21,833
of who’s actually couponing,
235
00:09:21,928 --> 00:09:25,598
it really is not limited
to any specific race,
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00:09:25,698 --> 00:09:27,928
age, sex, all -- everybody.
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00:09:28,034 --> 00:09:29,744
Everybody likes a deal.
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00:09:29,836 --> 00:09:32,636
But the average consumer
may not be aware
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00:09:32,739 --> 00:09:35,509
that there’s an entire
other side of couponing,
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00:09:35,608 --> 00:09:39,278
the dark side, let’s call it,
where there are counterfeits.
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00:09:39,379 --> 00:09:40,749
I think counterfeits
have been around
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00:09:40,847 --> 00:09:42,617
almost as long as couponing
has been around,
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00:09:42,715 --> 00:09:44,515
but it’s become
very sophisticated.
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00:09:44,617 --> 00:09:46,147
Goldberg: In the digital age,
245
00:09:46,252 --> 00:09:48,852
coupons are now bought
and sold online.
246
00:09:48,955 --> 00:09:51,285
Something bad made worse
by the Internet?
247
00:09:51,391 --> 00:09:53,761
[ Gasps ]
Quelle surprise?
248
00:09:53,860 --> 00:09:57,600
The fake coupons are largely
distributed in online groups,
249
00:09:57,697 --> 00:09:59,797
social networks, private groups,
250
00:09:59,899 --> 00:10:01,829
secret groups,
private messaging.
251
00:10:01,935 --> 00:10:03,945
Once you join one
of these groups,
252
00:10:04,037 --> 00:10:07,437
you will find not only
counterfeit coupons being sold,
253
00:10:07,540 --> 00:10:09,340
some of them will actually
create the coupons for you.
254
00:10:09,442 --> 00:10:10,682
Well, what product do you want?
255
00:10:10,777 --> 00:10:12,277
How much dollar value
do you want?
256
00:10:12,378 --> 00:10:13,848
To me, there’s no way
these people
257
00:10:13,947 --> 00:10:16,547
do not realize
that these are fakes,
258
00:10:16,616 --> 00:10:18,316
but there does seem
to be a disconnect
259
00:10:18,418 --> 00:10:19,948
for some of these shoppers.
260
00:10:20,019 --> 00:10:22,859
If you wouldn’t use
a counterfeit dollar bill
261
00:10:22,922 --> 00:10:25,292
or a counterfeit hundred --
let’s go big -- at the store,
262
00:10:25,391 --> 00:10:26,731
you know, everybody backs off
of that
263
00:10:26,793 --> 00:10:27,993
and says,
"Oh, no. There’s consequences.
264
00:10:28,061 --> 00:10:29,901
That’s counterfeiting.
You could go to jail."
265
00:10:29,963 --> 00:10:32,573
Well, you can with this, too.
It’s still counterfeiting.
266
00:10:32,632 --> 00:10:35,202
But for many people,
I believe that thrill
267
00:10:35,301 --> 00:10:36,771
of getting the deal takes over,
268
00:10:36,836 --> 00:10:39,506
and they’ll do whatever
they need to do to get it.
269
00:10:39,539 --> 00:10:42,439
Goldberg: Chasing that thrill
takes a heavy toll,
270
00:10:42,542 --> 00:10:46,512
because retailers lose more than
$100 million per year
271
00:10:46,579 --> 00:10:48,149
to fake coupons.
272
00:10:48,248 --> 00:10:49,718
It’s a huge problem
for the industry,
273
00:10:49,782 --> 00:10:51,522
it’s a huge problem
for your stores,
274
00:10:51,584 --> 00:10:54,294
and it’s a huge problem for
your average consumer like me.
275
00:10:54,354 --> 00:10:55,594
Someone has to pay,
276
00:10:55,655 --> 00:10:58,055
whether it’s the store
taking the loss or the brand.
277
00:10:58,158 --> 00:11:00,788
If the brand takes the loss,
it filters down to us.
278
00:11:00,894 --> 00:11:02,464
It hurts everyone.
279
00:11:02,529 --> 00:11:04,659
Mosley: When you go to
a grocery store
280
00:11:04,731 --> 00:11:07,631
some checkout cashier
making minimum wage
281
00:11:07,734 --> 00:11:10,044
may not be interested
in researching
282
00:11:10,103 --> 00:11:13,443
how you’re getting $24 off
of a pack of Pampers.
283
00:11:13,540 --> 00:11:14,610
What do they have
to gain from that?
284
00:11:14,707 --> 00:11:15,737
Nothing.
285
00:11:15,842 --> 00:11:18,012
I would just boop, boop,
boop, boop,
286
00:11:18,111 --> 00:11:19,911
"Oh, you’re getting 89 of these
free?
287
00:11:19,946 --> 00:11:21,806
Yeah, that makes sense to me."
Boop, boop.
288
00:11:21,915 --> 00:11:23,585
I wouldn’t say anything, either.
289
00:11:23,650 --> 00:11:25,220
So then, by the time
that this coupon
290
00:11:25,318 --> 00:11:27,348
reaches the manufacturer,
291
00:11:27,420 --> 00:11:29,690
it’s been so much time
that’s elapsed,
292
00:11:29,756 --> 00:11:31,516
there’s probably not that
much of a record
293
00:11:31,591 --> 00:11:33,361
of who made these purchases,
294
00:11:33,459 --> 00:11:35,899
so it makes it very difficult
to stop this kind of fraud.
295
00:11:35,962 --> 00:11:38,562
Goldberg: You know it can take
almost a month for the system
296
00:11:38,631 --> 00:11:40,331
to catch a fake coupon,
297
00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,600
and by then,
the customer is gone,
298
00:11:42,669 --> 00:11:45,339
leaving behind only the cost.
299
00:11:45,405 --> 00:11:48,415
The reality is that counterfeit
coupons does have a consequence.
300
00:11:48,474 --> 00:11:49,644
You know,
it hurts both the brand
301
00:11:49,742 --> 00:11:51,242
and it hurts the manufacturer.
302
00:11:51,311 --> 00:11:54,151
This is not a situation
of a guilt-free crime.
303
00:11:54,214 --> 00:11:56,624
Goldberg:
In 2017, Lori is still running
304
00:11:56,683 --> 00:11:59,053
with a legitimate coupon crowd,
305
00:11:59,152 --> 00:12:02,992
but that doesn’t stop others
from running into her.
306
00:12:03,056 --> 00:12:05,286
Lori’s the head of her
own coupon group.
307
00:12:05,358 --> 00:12:09,458
An admin for another couponing
group notices Lori’s group
308
00:12:09,562 --> 00:12:11,002
and starts looking into Lori
309
00:12:11,064 --> 00:12:13,204
and sees that she has
a background in marketing
310
00:12:13,266 --> 00:12:15,496
and a background
in graphic design
311
00:12:15,535 --> 00:12:18,575
and hits her up one day,
shows her a coupon and says,
312
00:12:18,638 --> 00:12:21,138
"Hey, what do you
think of this?"
313
00:12:21,174 --> 00:12:24,944
So Lori takes one look at that
coupon and immediately says,
314
00:12:25,011 --> 00:12:28,311
"This is horrible.
I can do better than this."
315
00:12:28,348 --> 00:12:33,288
And almost overnight,
she comes up with a fake coupon
316
00:12:33,353 --> 00:12:35,863
that looks exactly
like the real thing.
317
00:12:35,922 --> 00:12:38,022
The admin is so impressed,
318
00:12:38,091 --> 00:12:39,961
she offers to pay her
to do more.
319
00:12:40,059 --> 00:12:42,899
So Lori becomes a part
of that new group.
320
00:12:42,962 --> 00:12:45,102
They’re paying her
to make these fake coupons.
321
00:12:45,164 --> 00:12:48,174
Lori Ann taught herself
how to make barcodes,
322
00:12:48,268 --> 00:12:50,498
so her coupons are next level
323
00:12:50,536 --> 00:12:53,036
because the bar codes
are legit and they work.
324
00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:55,370
We have to remember
that this woman
325
00:12:55,441 --> 00:12:56,841
was accustomed
to being the breadwinner.
326
00:12:56,909 --> 00:12:59,349
She’s had businesses
since she was in her late teens.
327
00:12:59,412 --> 00:13:02,182
She loved the thrill
and excitement of doing business
328
00:13:02,248 --> 00:13:03,648
and participating in sales,
329
00:13:03,716 --> 00:13:05,916
and now that she had become
a stay-at-home mother,
330
00:13:05,985 --> 00:13:08,115
which for a lot of women
is a dream,
331
00:13:08,187 --> 00:13:11,057
she was a working woman
who found a lot of value
332
00:13:11,124 --> 00:13:13,594
in contributing financially
to her household.
333
00:13:13,660 --> 00:13:14,930
So she was naturally inclined
334
00:13:15,028 --> 00:13:16,758
to try to fill that space
in her heart
335
00:13:16,863 --> 00:13:20,203
and that kind of hole
where she used to thrive.
336
00:13:20,266 --> 00:13:22,696
Goldberg: So Lori Ann has
a glimpse of her value
337
00:13:22,802 --> 00:13:24,042
on the dark web
338
00:13:24,103 --> 00:13:28,213
and sees this as a way
to become her own boss.
339
00:13:28,241 --> 00:13:32,181
Once she had created these new
counterfeit, working coupons
340
00:13:32,245 --> 00:13:35,385
she had a new counterfeit
coupon social media group
341
00:13:35,448 --> 00:13:37,278
where she started
distributing them,
342
00:13:37,350 --> 00:13:39,250
and a lot of this
starts that way.
343
00:13:39,352 --> 00:13:40,822
Walton: At that point,
344
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,590
the people in her illegal
couponing group could literally
345
00:13:44,624 --> 00:13:47,434
think of anything they want
under the sun
346
00:13:47,493 --> 00:13:50,833
and ask Lori to create
a coupon for it.
347
00:13:50,897 --> 00:13:55,097
That high-dollar name-brand
detergent for $25,
348
00:13:55,168 --> 00:13:58,298
Lori can get you a coupon
so it’s $5.
349
00:13:58,371 --> 00:14:02,171
Lori is like a magician.
She can create anything.
350
00:14:02,241 --> 00:14:05,951
Goldberg: By selling excessive
discounts on staple goods,
351
00:14:06,012 --> 00:14:09,722
Lori Ann now has the revenue
for some luxuries.
352
00:14:09,816 --> 00:14:11,376
There was a lot
of home improvements.
353
00:14:11,451 --> 00:14:13,151
You would just see her postings
on Facebook.
354
00:14:13,219 --> 00:14:16,189
There was the addition
of the pool, there was the roof,
355
00:14:16,255 --> 00:14:18,955
and then the tiles
being replaced in the house.
356
00:14:19,025 --> 00:14:21,365
Lori not working and me seeing
all those posts on Facebook
357
00:14:21,427 --> 00:14:22,757
with all the home improvements,
358
00:14:22,795 --> 00:14:24,095
I mean, there was a lot
of speculation
359
00:14:24,197 --> 00:14:25,597
wondering
how was she doing that.
360
00:14:25,665 --> 00:14:27,075
A lot of people are like...
361
00:14:27,133 --> 00:14:29,643
Goldberg: At what point
does extreme thrift
362
00:14:29,702 --> 00:14:32,302
become outright greed?
363
00:14:32,372 --> 00:14:33,912
Walton:
I understand the allure.
364
00:14:34,006 --> 00:14:35,566
I might get sucked
into that, too,
365
00:14:35,641 --> 00:14:39,211
but at some point, I’d be like,
"You know what? This is wrong."
366
00:14:39,245 --> 00:14:41,705
Maybe I’d be the one to call
the Coupon Information Center.
367
00:14:41,781 --> 00:14:44,021
Goldberg:
I’m sorry. You’re calling who?
368
00:14:44,117 --> 00:14:47,647
Mosley: The Coupon Information
Center, or the CIC,
369
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:49,390
is an organization
that’s dedicated
370
00:14:49,489 --> 00:14:52,089
to being a watchdog
in the coupon industry
371
00:14:52,158 --> 00:14:55,158
to prevent counterfeit coupons.
372
00:14:55,228 --> 00:14:57,928
Bud Miller is the head
of the CIC.
373
00:14:57,997 --> 00:15:01,667
Now Bud, he’s an advocate
for coupon legitimacy,
374
00:15:01,734 --> 00:15:03,204
a coupon cop, if you will.
375
00:15:03,302 --> 00:15:06,512
Miller:
I’m the executive director
376
00:15:06,606 --> 00:15:08,336
of the Coupon Information
Center,
377
00:15:08,408 --> 00:15:10,978
and we fight coupon fraud.
378
00:15:11,077 --> 00:15:13,807
One day in June of 2017,
379
00:15:13,913 --> 00:15:16,853
I just get a little e-mail
via the website.
380
00:15:16,949 --> 00:15:19,619
It basically said,
"I know somebody who’s creating
381
00:15:19,719 --> 00:15:23,059
a lot of counterfeit coupons,
please contact me."
382
00:15:23,156 --> 00:15:27,126
Goldberg:
The coupon community runs
much deeper than I imagined.
383
00:15:27,226 --> 00:15:30,496
They have tipsters when
someone has tainted the well.
384
00:15:30,596 --> 00:15:31,856
Cataldo: So, why would
a member of a group
385
00:15:31,964 --> 00:15:33,974
turn these counterfeiters in?
386
00:15:34,066 --> 00:15:36,436
Guilty conscience, I think,
is number one, you know?
387
00:15:36,536 --> 00:15:39,336
Number two is
the coupons stop working.
388
00:15:39,439 --> 00:15:41,839
They bought these, and they
didn’t work, and they’re angry.
389
00:15:41,941 --> 00:15:43,811
Now they’re gonna turn in
the counterfeiter.
390
00:15:43,910 --> 00:15:45,710
Those tend to be the two things
391
00:15:45,812 --> 00:15:47,682
that turn someone
into a tipster.
392
00:15:47,780 --> 00:15:49,010
Goldberg: With this hot tip,
393
00:15:49,115 --> 00:15:52,355
Bud dives headfirst
into this new case.
394
00:15:52,452 --> 00:15:54,722
Miller: We started working
with that informant,
395
00:15:54,821 --> 00:15:58,061
and we learned more about
what was going on.
396
00:15:58,157 --> 00:16:00,787
They said the counterfeiter,
or the con artist,
397
00:16:00,893 --> 00:16:04,033
was using the name MasterChef.
398
00:16:04,130 --> 00:16:06,370
Then we started seeing
399
00:16:06,466 --> 00:16:09,966
some of the images
of counterfeit coupons.
400
00:16:10,069 --> 00:16:14,239
Very high-value counterfeits,
$9 apiece.
401
00:16:14,340 --> 00:16:16,440
You don’t really see very many
legitimate coupons
402
00:16:16,542 --> 00:16:19,112
at $9 apiece.
403
00:16:19,212 --> 00:16:22,052
MasterChef
really had a good recipe
404
00:16:22,148 --> 00:16:24,048
to create these counterfeits.
405
00:16:24,150 --> 00:16:27,690
The graphics of the coupons
were very well done.
406
00:16:27,787 --> 00:16:30,887
Some of them were printed
on professional printers.
407
00:16:30,990 --> 00:16:34,790
MasterChef is operating
at a very high level.
408
00:16:34,894 --> 00:16:37,704
It’s impossible
to know they’re fake.
409
00:16:37,797 --> 00:16:40,097
Miller: It was clear that
MasterChef,
410
00:16:40,199 --> 00:16:43,139
whose coupons were being
redeemed all over the country,
411
00:16:43,236 --> 00:16:45,336
needed to be stopped.
412
00:16:45,438 --> 00:16:48,838
Goldberg:
How do you tack down an unknown
fake coupon mastermind?
413
00:16:48,941 --> 00:16:52,511
Just as you suspected --
through the mail.
414
00:17:00,219 --> 00:17:02,819
♪
415
00:17:02,889 --> 00:17:07,189
Goldberg: A tipster has informed
coupon cop Bud Miller
416
00:17:07,293 --> 00:17:09,363
that there’s a new fraudster
on the scene,
417
00:17:09,462 --> 00:17:13,072
and Bud is determined
to take them down.
418
00:17:13,165 --> 00:17:15,695
At this point, Bud has no leads.
419
00:17:15,801 --> 00:17:18,571
He just has a tip and a dream,
420
00:17:18,604 --> 00:17:22,574
and he finds out that the person
who’s running this coupon ring
421
00:17:22,675 --> 00:17:26,015
is going by the alias
"MasterChef."
422
00:17:26,078 --> 00:17:28,548
Probably ’cause they’re
cooking up them coupons.
423
00:17:28,614 --> 00:17:31,254
Goldberg: Gotta have an alias
on the dark web.
424
00:17:31,317 --> 00:17:33,847
Rule number one --
don’t use your legal name
425
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,220
when you’re doing illegal stuff.
426
00:17:36,322 --> 00:17:39,492
Miller:
We knew that, you know, you have
somebody called MasterChef
427
00:17:39,525 --> 00:17:43,095
creating kind of a toxic brew
of counterfeit coupons
428
00:17:43,162 --> 00:17:46,002
ranging from standard-looking
coupons
429
00:17:46,065 --> 00:17:48,225
like you would get
in the Sunday paper,
430
00:17:48,301 --> 00:17:52,401
to discounts that you could use
at fast-food restaurants.
431
00:17:52,471 --> 00:17:55,511
It was very clear that
MasterChef was big leagues
432
00:17:55,608 --> 00:17:58,338
because of how well
MasterChef was hidden.
433
00:17:58,411 --> 00:18:00,881
Goldberg:
To join MasterChef’s group,
434
00:18:00,947 --> 00:18:03,277
you needed someone
to vouch for you,
435
00:18:03,382 --> 00:18:05,252
a picture ID and proof
436
00:18:05,351 --> 00:18:07,191
that you’d already
dirtied your hands
437
00:18:07,286 --> 00:18:09,586
with counterfeit coupons.
438
00:18:09,655 --> 00:18:12,185
No one wandered in there
by mistake.
439
00:18:12,258 --> 00:18:16,328
MasterChef wanted to make sure
that corporate security
440
00:18:16,395 --> 00:18:20,695
or law enforcement would
never penetrate their groups.
441
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,540
Goldberg: MasterChef
is an elusive criminal,
442
00:18:23,603 --> 00:18:26,373
so Bud needs
a law enforcement agency
443
00:18:26,439 --> 00:18:28,569
that knows how
to track things down.
444
00:18:29,575 --> 00:18:30,875
Thomasson:
The Postal Inspection Service
445
00:18:30,943 --> 00:18:34,153
is the law enforcement arm
of the post office.
446
00:18:34,213 --> 00:18:36,523
We enforce over
200 federal statutes
447
00:18:36,582 --> 00:18:38,752
as they pertain
to the United States mail,
448
00:18:38,818 --> 00:18:41,548
the postal infrastructure,
and our employees.
449
00:18:41,621 --> 00:18:42,961
Most people have never
heard of us.
450
00:18:42,989 --> 00:18:44,889
We used to be known as, like,
the silent service.
451
00:18:44,991 --> 00:18:46,331
Nobody knew we were out there,
452
00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,129
but we’re one of the oldest
federal law enforcement agencies
453
00:18:49,195 --> 00:18:51,005
in the country.
454
00:18:51,097 --> 00:18:53,167
I found out about this case
through a phone call
455
00:18:53,232 --> 00:18:54,502
from Bud Miller.
456
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:56,870
He introduced himself
from the CIC,
457
00:18:56,936 --> 00:18:59,506
and, you know, I started
going through my mind
458
00:18:59,572 --> 00:19:01,542
something like, was that
counterintelligence something?
459
00:19:01,641 --> 00:19:03,681
And then he went further
to explain,
460
00:19:03,776 --> 00:19:05,906
Coupon Information Center.
461
00:19:05,978 --> 00:19:08,108
I was like,
"Did he just say coupons?"
462
00:19:08,180 --> 00:19:11,050
And he was calling to pitch
the case to me,
463
00:19:11,117 --> 00:19:13,717
and he was wanting to know if
I’d be interested in working it.
464
00:19:13,786 --> 00:19:16,356
Miller: There’s a number
of elements you need
465
00:19:16,422 --> 00:19:19,062
for a successful
law enforcement case.
466
00:19:19,125 --> 00:19:22,765
You need to be able to prove,
is there a violation of the law?
467
00:19:22,828 --> 00:19:25,498
Mailing counterfeit coupons
468
00:19:25,598 --> 00:19:30,098
is a violation of the federal
law called mail fraud.
469
00:19:30,169 --> 00:19:32,239
Miller: A dollar amount drives
the interest
470
00:19:32,304 --> 00:19:33,874
of the US Attorney’s Office.
471
00:19:33,939 --> 00:19:37,679
What is the impact
of the community or the nation?
472
00:19:37,743 --> 00:19:40,453
He didn’t have
loss amounts for me.
473
00:19:40,513 --> 00:19:42,983
He didn’t have
a total number of victims
474
00:19:43,082 --> 00:19:44,452
or anything
at this point in time.
475
00:19:44,517 --> 00:19:47,017
So I actually turned him down,
but not a hard no.
476
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,159
It was a,
"Go do some homework."
477
00:19:50,256 --> 00:19:53,126
Goldberg: While Bud is tackling
his homework on loss numbers,
478
00:19:53,192 --> 00:19:56,432
Lori Ann is expanding
her counterfeit empire.
479
00:19:56,462 --> 00:19:59,302
She wasn’t creating coupons
just for manufactured products.
480
00:19:59,398 --> 00:20:00,468
There were restaurants.
481
00:20:00,533 --> 00:20:02,073
There were other
retailers involved.
482
00:20:02,168 --> 00:20:03,838
In her case,
probably started thinking,
483
00:20:03,903 --> 00:20:05,943
"What else can I make?
What else is going to work?
484
00:20:06,038 --> 00:20:07,008
What else can I sell?"
485
00:20:07,106 --> 00:20:09,106
She’s got thousands of members.
486
00:20:09,175 --> 00:20:12,645
She’s drafted her husband,
Pacifico,
487
00:20:12,712 --> 00:20:16,482
to start mailing out coupons
to all these people every day.
488
00:20:16,549 --> 00:20:18,549
He’s become kind
of her assistant.
489
00:20:18,617 --> 00:20:21,117
Goldberg: Despite Lori Ann’s
secretive operation,
490
00:20:21,220 --> 00:20:26,060
Bud is tireless in finding the
numbers he needs to open a case.
491
00:20:26,125 --> 00:20:27,965
Miller:
That took some time in doing
492
00:20:28,027 --> 00:20:30,327
because you don’t have
your hands
493
00:20:30,362 --> 00:20:35,302
on every single counterfeit
the suspect is associated with.
494
00:20:35,367 --> 00:20:38,667
So you have to base it
off the purchases.
495
00:20:38,738 --> 00:20:40,738
Goldberg: With the help of
a coupon service,
496
00:20:40,806 --> 00:20:44,036
Bud is finally able
to estimate the scale of loss
497
00:20:44,143 --> 00:20:45,683
from the fraud.
498
00:20:45,778 --> 00:20:49,448
So once we were able to identify
that this was costing
499
00:20:49,515 --> 00:20:52,185
hundreds of thousands of dollars
and more,
500
00:20:52,251 --> 00:20:55,351
then we were able to reach out
to law enforcement.
501
00:20:55,421 --> 00:20:58,461
He contacted me again,
it was in the summer of 2018,
502
00:20:58,557 --> 00:21:00,727
with a six-figure loss amount,
503
00:21:00,793 --> 00:21:02,793
which is enough to attract
the interest
504
00:21:02,828 --> 00:21:06,098
of the US Attorney’s Office
in Norfolk at the time.
505
00:21:06,165 --> 00:21:08,805
I knew that Bud’s source was
using Telegram
506
00:21:08,868 --> 00:21:11,068
to communicate
with whoever’s selling these.
507
00:21:11,137 --> 00:21:13,807
So I naturally went to the FBI
508
00:21:13,873 --> 00:21:15,613
to shop the case to see
if I could find an agent
509
00:21:15,708 --> 00:21:17,638
that was interested
in joining it.
510
00:21:17,710 --> 00:21:20,150
Specifically, I looked for
someone on their cyber squad
511
00:21:20,212 --> 00:21:22,312
who would understand
the geek speak,
512
00:21:22,414 --> 00:21:24,054
for lack of a better term,
513
00:21:24,116 --> 00:21:27,216
and I came across
Special Agent Brill.
514
00:21:27,319 --> 00:21:29,489
Brill:
I’m an FBI Special Agent
515
00:21:29,555 --> 00:21:31,795
based out of the Norfolk
Field Office in Virginia,
516
00:21:31,857 --> 00:21:34,727
and I currently work
cyber-related crime.
517
00:21:34,827 --> 00:21:37,957
This case first came from
Inspector Thomasson,
518
00:21:38,063 --> 00:21:41,033
and honestly, the first time
that he pitched it, I --
519
00:21:41,133 --> 00:21:44,603
I laughed, um,
because who cares?
520
00:21:44,703 --> 00:21:45,773
It’s counterfeit coupons.
521
00:21:45,871 --> 00:21:47,471
What kind of damage
could be done?
522
00:21:47,573 --> 00:21:50,283
Goldberg: I’ll tell you,
this is not a victimless crime.
523
00:21:50,376 --> 00:21:51,806
We all pay.
524
00:21:51,911 --> 00:21:54,251
When the losses from
the toothpaste industry
525
00:21:54,346 --> 00:21:57,746
are passed onto you,
you smile just a little less.
526
00:21:57,850 --> 00:21:59,420
♪
527
00:21:59,518 --> 00:22:00,618
Thomasson:
Shannon came on board.
528
00:22:00,719 --> 00:22:02,219
We started digging
into the case,
529
00:22:02,321 --> 00:22:05,521
still not knowing
who it is that’s doing this.
530
00:22:05,624 --> 00:22:06,764
We knew it was Virginia Beach
531
00:22:06,859 --> 00:22:08,459
’cause this is where
the mailings originated.
532
00:22:08,561 --> 00:22:10,101
This is where the first scan was
533
00:22:10,196 --> 00:22:12,326
on the tracking information
for the mailing,
534
00:22:12,431 --> 00:22:14,101
but we didn’t know
the return address.
535
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,840
So we didn’t know where
it’s being mailed from.
536
00:22:16,936 --> 00:22:18,396
Is it being dropped
at a blue box?
537
00:22:18,504 --> 00:22:19,974
Is it being dropped
at a post office?
538
00:22:20,072 --> 00:22:21,472
Where is this scam originating?
539
00:22:21,574 --> 00:22:23,814
Goldberg: If you’re looking
in Virginia Beach,
540
00:22:23,909 --> 00:22:27,279
let me suggest a certain
newly remodeled house.
541
00:22:27,379 --> 00:22:28,779
There’s a woman by the pool
542
00:22:28,881 --> 00:22:31,451
who just might have
some questions to answer.
543
00:22:31,550 --> 00:22:34,787
♪
544
00:22:34,787 --> 00:22:41,987
Goldberg: In 2019,
545
00:22:42,094 --> 00:22:45,504
the feds, the Postal Service,
and the coupon cops
546
00:22:45,598 --> 00:22:47,698
are a year into their pursuit
547
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:52,170
of a fake coupon savant
known as MasterChef.
548
00:22:52,271 --> 00:22:54,671
Miller: We’d interviewed
Bud’s source at length,
549
00:22:54,773 --> 00:22:57,713
and they told us
they had received a picture
550
00:22:57,810 --> 00:23:00,550
of whoever’s selling
these coupons to them,
551
00:23:00,613 --> 00:23:02,013
and they said on the metadata,
552
00:23:02,081 --> 00:23:05,581
I found longitude and latitude
of where the picture was taken.
553
00:23:05,651 --> 00:23:07,521
And I’m like,
well, that’s amazing, you know?
554
00:23:07,620 --> 00:23:09,390
Who would think of that,
to look for that information?
555
00:23:09,455 --> 00:23:11,165
So I plugged the longitude
and latitude coordinates
556
00:23:11,257 --> 00:23:12,617
into Google Maps,
557
00:23:12,725 --> 00:23:15,595
and it pops to a house
in Virginia Beach.
558
00:23:15,661 --> 00:23:19,731
I then used databases we have
access to to run that address,
559
00:23:19,798 --> 00:23:21,928
and the house comes back
associated with
560
00:23:22,034 --> 00:23:25,544
Lori and Pacifico Talens.
561
00:23:25,604 --> 00:23:27,474
I pulled Lori Ann’s
DMV information,
562
00:23:27,573 --> 00:23:28,973
and as soon as I saw her photo,
563
00:23:29,008 --> 00:23:31,478
I told Special Agent Brill,
I said, that’s her.
564
00:23:31,577 --> 00:23:32,607
She’s like,
"Why do you think that?"
565
00:23:32,711 --> 00:23:33,951
I said,
"Well, remember the picture
566
00:23:34,046 --> 00:23:35,306
that the source sent us of her
567
00:23:35,414 --> 00:23:38,224
with the really nice
French manicure on the hand?"
568
00:23:38,317 --> 00:23:39,547
She’s like,
"That’s a bit of a stretch."
569
00:23:39,618 --> 00:23:42,388
I was like, "That’s her."
570
00:23:42,454 --> 00:23:43,824
Investigators have a good lead,
571
00:23:43,923 --> 00:23:45,593
but they have to build
a case now
572
00:23:45,658 --> 00:23:48,428
and make it airtight
before they confront Lori.
573
00:23:48,494 --> 00:23:52,264
Goldberg: How exactly
are they building this case?
574
00:23:52,331 --> 00:23:54,871
Tracking down
a suspect’s manicure
575
00:23:54,934 --> 00:23:58,674
would only scratch the surface
of this criminal enterprise.
576
00:23:58,771 --> 00:24:00,771
Now you start digging
into the person,
577
00:24:00,806 --> 00:24:02,936
figuring out who they are,
what makes them tick,
578
00:24:03,008 --> 00:24:04,438
what is their history?
579
00:24:04,510 --> 00:24:06,010
So you start pulling
criminal histories,
580
00:24:06,078 --> 00:24:07,708
you start looking
for work histories,
581
00:24:07,780 --> 00:24:10,580
you start doing physical
surveillance of the property,
582
00:24:10,649 --> 00:24:12,179
sitting outside
and just watching,
583
00:24:12,251 --> 00:24:13,851
who’s coming, who’s going,
584
00:24:13,953 --> 00:24:17,463
what belongs,
what doesn’t belong?
585
00:24:17,523 --> 00:24:19,463
Mosley: They drove to Lori’s
neighborhood,
586
00:24:19,558 --> 00:24:23,828
and they sat in a car
and watched them,
587
00:24:23,862 --> 00:24:26,502
I guess hoping to see groceries
being brought home?
588
00:24:26,532 --> 00:24:29,332
Too many groceries?
589
00:24:29,401 --> 00:24:30,801
Thomasson: While doing
physical surveillance,
590
00:24:30,869 --> 00:24:34,469
we saw a building permit posted
on the front of the house.
591
00:24:34,573 --> 00:24:36,343
So I subpoenaed
the City of Virginia Beach
592
00:24:36,408 --> 00:24:38,578
for all building permits
that were associated
593
00:24:38,644 --> 00:24:40,714
with this particular residence.
594
00:24:40,779 --> 00:24:42,909
We got in touch
with those contractors.
595
00:24:42,982 --> 00:24:46,492
One contractor talked about
how nice Lori was,
596
00:24:46,518 --> 00:24:51,058
and she even gave his employees
meal cards for free combo meals.
597
00:24:51,123 --> 00:24:52,623
We were like, "Oh, really?"
He’s like, "Yes.
598
00:24:52,691 --> 00:24:54,291
I’ve still got some
out in the truck."
599
00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:55,860
We were like, "Well, go get ’em
and show ’em to us."
600
00:24:55,928 --> 00:24:59,128
He comes back in with
about half a dozen combo meals.
601
00:24:59,231 --> 00:25:01,131
Lays ’em out on his desk.
602
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:02,270
And we look at them,
and we’re like,
603
00:25:02,334 --> 00:25:04,944
"Okay, well,
these aren’t legitimate,
604
00:25:05,004 --> 00:25:06,574
so we’ll be taking ’em with us,"
605
00:25:06,638 --> 00:25:08,208
and he’s like,
"Oh, I can’t keep them?"
606
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,140
Like, "No, you can’t. [ Laughs ]
You can’t keep these.
607
00:25:10,209 --> 00:25:11,539
We’re taking them with us."
608
00:25:11,577 --> 00:25:14,307
Goldberg: The agents now have
hard evidence that Lori Ann
609
00:25:14,380 --> 00:25:17,550
is trafficking
in phony meal tickets.
610
00:25:17,616 --> 00:25:22,346
Who knew that you could tip your
contractors with a cheeseburger?
611
00:25:22,421 --> 00:25:24,861
What the surveillance
didn’t do for us
612
00:25:24,923 --> 00:25:27,363
is that it really didn’t
tell us her pattern of life
613
00:25:27,426 --> 00:25:28,786
and that’s kinda
what we wanted to establish.
614
00:25:28,861 --> 00:25:31,161
She never left the house.
615
00:25:31,263 --> 00:25:33,633
So we knew we had to do a little
bit more digging to find out
616
00:25:33,732 --> 00:25:35,702
what else is going on
behind the scenes.
617
00:25:35,768 --> 00:25:38,238
Some of the other tactics
or techniques that we used is,
618
00:25:38,303 --> 00:25:39,913
we met up with her mail carrier.
619
00:25:39,938 --> 00:25:43,208
Mail carriers know a lot
of information about you.
620
00:25:43,308 --> 00:25:44,908
They look at what mail
you’re receiving
621
00:25:44,977 --> 00:25:47,107
and what mail
you’re putting out there.
622
00:25:47,179 --> 00:25:48,779
And this mail carrier,
this was great, he said,
623
00:25:48,847 --> 00:25:51,917
"Yeah, sometimes her mailbox
is full of these envelopes."
624
00:25:51,984 --> 00:25:54,824
And that was important
information for us to have
625
00:25:54,887 --> 00:25:57,017
because it showed
that someone in the house
626
00:25:57,089 --> 00:26:02,429
was sending these envelopes
from the actual house itself.
627
00:26:02,494 --> 00:26:04,034
Thomasson: I started monitoring
the mail
628
00:26:04,063 --> 00:26:06,933
just to see what was moving
through their mail,
629
00:26:06,999 --> 00:26:09,999
and I saw a mail piece
that was addressed to someone
630
00:26:10,069 --> 00:26:11,639
in the Continental
United States,
631
00:26:11,703 --> 00:26:14,113
and the return address
was MasterChef Designs.
632
00:26:14,206 --> 00:26:16,736
♪
633
00:26:16,809 --> 00:26:20,549
MasterChef is the moniker
that was used by the person
634
00:26:20,646 --> 00:26:22,876
that was selling
the coupons on Telegram.
635
00:26:22,915 --> 00:26:25,755
I also saw that there was
a Laurel, Maryland, address
636
00:26:25,818 --> 00:26:28,248
that was being used as
the return address, a PO box.
637
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,060
I reached out to that
post office,
638
00:26:30,122 --> 00:26:31,892
and I said
"Do you have this box number?"
639
00:26:31,957 --> 00:26:33,827
And they’re like,
"No, that’s not a real number."
640
00:26:33,892 --> 00:26:35,532
So I knew it was a fake address.
641
00:26:35,627 --> 00:26:37,597
So that adds another part
to the fraud.
642
00:26:37,663 --> 00:26:40,233
They’re trying to conceal
where it’s actually coming from.
643
00:26:40,299 --> 00:26:43,469
Goldberg: So this mailbox
has more than one red flag,
644
00:26:43,535 --> 00:26:45,565
but how can
the authorities confirm
645
00:26:45,637 --> 00:26:49,037
MasterChef’s mail
was sent by Lori Ann?
646
00:26:49,108 --> 00:26:50,708
Thomasson: Special Agent Brill
and I discussed
647
00:26:50,776 --> 00:26:52,506
how are we were gonna
lock them in
648
00:26:52,578 --> 00:26:54,448
that we know it’s them
putting it in the mailbox,
649
00:26:54,513 --> 00:26:56,183
because if you just confront
them with it, they can say,
650
00:26:56,248 --> 00:26:58,218
"Well, I don’t know
who put it in my mailbox."
651
00:26:58,283 --> 00:27:02,153
We then elected to use
a covert pole camera
652
00:27:02,221 --> 00:27:04,691
that was aimed
specifically at their house.
653
00:27:05,791 --> 00:27:08,031
They set up a pole cam,
654
00:27:08,093 --> 00:27:10,333
and if you don’t know
what a pole cam is,
655
00:27:10,395 --> 00:27:13,295
it’s when you literally
put a camera on a pole,
656
00:27:13,365 --> 00:27:14,725
and it watched her house,
657
00:27:14,833 --> 00:27:17,773
because what they essentially
needed was the mail fraud,
658
00:27:17,803 --> 00:27:22,043
so they needed a video of Lori
taking her counterfeit coupons
659
00:27:22,141 --> 00:27:23,811
and putting them in the mailbox
660
00:27:23,842 --> 00:27:26,912
and flipping up
the flag of fraud,
661
00:27:26,979 --> 00:27:29,309
and eventually, they got it.
662
00:27:29,381 --> 00:27:31,921
Thomasson: We were able
to capture Lori Talens
663
00:27:31,984 --> 00:27:34,294
going to her mailbox
with these parcels,
664
00:27:34,319 --> 00:27:37,619
putting them in the mailbox and
putting the little red flag up.
665
00:27:37,689 --> 00:27:39,519
And that was a vital piece
of evidence
666
00:27:39,625 --> 00:27:43,095
because we figured they would
deny it and use that line of,
667
00:27:43,162 --> 00:27:44,402
"I don’t know who put it
in my mailbox."
668
00:27:44,463 --> 00:27:46,203
Well, now you’ve got a video.
669
00:27:46,298 --> 00:27:47,968
How are you gonna
dispute the video?
670
00:27:48,033 --> 00:27:49,433
Other things that we did
to kind of
671
00:27:49,535 --> 00:27:51,045
help answer the questions
that we had is,
672
00:27:51,103 --> 00:27:52,303
we did a trash pull.
673
00:27:52,371 --> 00:27:55,441
Those are not fun by any
stretch of the imagination.
674
00:27:55,507 --> 00:27:58,237
We dug through her trash.
675
00:27:58,310 --> 00:28:00,780
Goldberg: What did they do?
Oh, my goodness.
676
00:28:00,846 --> 00:28:03,006
They might be some
white-collar crime fighters,
677
00:28:03,081 --> 00:28:06,151
but they are not afraid
to get their hands dirty.
678
00:28:06,218 --> 00:28:07,918
We called the city,
they said they’d provide
679
00:28:07,986 --> 00:28:10,716
a "clean truck" to us
to dump this in.
680
00:28:10,789 --> 00:28:13,189
Clean just means
nobody else’s trash is in it.
681
00:28:13,292 --> 00:28:14,432
It hasn’t been hosed out.
682
00:28:14,493 --> 00:28:17,003
It’s still got three weeks’ ago
worth of stuff
683
00:28:17,062 --> 00:28:18,762
on the bottom caked on it.
684
00:28:18,830 --> 00:28:22,870
So they would go around and dump
her trash can and hers only,
685
00:28:22,968 --> 00:28:24,568
or her recycling,
686
00:28:24,636 --> 00:28:26,806
and then we’d go
to an offsite location.
687
00:28:26,872 --> 00:28:29,272
They’d then open the large
back door of the truck.
688
00:28:29,341 --> 00:28:31,911
I would bring shopping bags
and tie them on my shoes
689
00:28:31,944 --> 00:28:35,714
so I’m not tracking whatever
out of the truck with me.
690
00:28:35,814 --> 00:28:38,084
We’d physically climb
into the truck.
691
00:28:38,150 --> 00:28:40,550
Just think of everything you
throw away, it’s in there.
692
00:28:40,619 --> 00:28:43,659
It’s rotting,
it was hot, it’s nasty.
693
00:28:45,657 --> 00:28:48,857
They are rifling through
this woman’s trash
694
00:28:48,927 --> 00:28:51,527
looking for coupons.
695
00:28:53,732 --> 00:28:55,802
In the recycling,
we found discarded coupons.
696
00:28:55,901 --> 00:28:58,971
We found some of the packaging
materials that we had seen
697
00:28:59,071 --> 00:29:01,771
in the coupons that were
shipped to Bud’s source.
698
00:29:01,873 --> 00:29:04,813
There was a packing slip
that she used pretty routinely
699
00:29:04,910 --> 00:29:06,210
in what she would ship out.
700
00:29:06,311 --> 00:29:08,381
We saw blank copies or copies
where she had messed up on
701
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:09,210
and just threw away.
702
00:29:09,314 --> 00:29:10,384
We found those in there.
703
00:29:10,482 --> 00:29:12,352
So now you know
you’re at the right place,
704
00:29:12,451 --> 00:29:14,851
you know you’ve got
the right house.
705
00:29:14,953 --> 00:29:17,123
At this point, they have amassed
enough evidence
706
00:29:17,222 --> 00:29:18,322
to get what they need,
707
00:29:18,423 --> 00:29:23,463
which is a search warrant
for an FBI raid.
708
00:29:23,562 --> 00:29:27,732
Goldberg: Wait till you see what
they didn’t throw in the trash.
709
00:29:27,833 --> 00:29:30,202
♪
710
00:29:30,202 --> 00:29:36,742
Goldberg: In May of 2020,
711
00:29:36,842 --> 00:29:40,082
after two years of digging
into packages and trash,
712
00:29:40,178 --> 00:29:42,308
the FBI finally gets a warrant
713
00:29:42,414 --> 00:29:47,524
to raid the home of Lori Ann
and Pacifico Talens.
714
00:29:47,619 --> 00:29:49,189
Thomasson:
When we showed up at her door,
715
00:29:49,288 --> 00:29:51,258
it was very early, 6:00 a. m.
716
00:29:51,356 --> 00:29:52,756
We’re pounding on the door.
717
00:29:52,858 --> 00:29:54,658
I’m calling her cellphone,
trying to get her to answer,
718
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,590
to come down,
ringing the doorbell.
719
00:29:56,695 --> 00:29:59,905
There’s no more hiding
for Lori and Pacifico now.
720
00:29:59,998 --> 00:30:01,328
The FBI’s in front
of their house.
721
00:30:01,433 --> 00:30:04,403
The neighbors know
something big is up.
722
00:30:04,503 --> 00:30:07,013
Thomasson: She takes quite
a while to come answer the door,
723
00:30:07,105 --> 00:30:08,705
but as soon as
she answers the door,
724
00:30:08,807 --> 00:30:10,037
it’s grab her, get her out,
725
00:30:10,142 --> 00:30:11,282
’cause we need now
to clear the house
726
00:30:11,376 --> 00:30:13,176
to make sure it’s safe
for us to enter
727
00:30:13,278 --> 00:30:16,108
and nobody else is in the house
that we don’t know about.
728
00:30:16,214 --> 00:30:19,354
So once you clear the house,
the search commences.
729
00:30:19,451 --> 00:30:25,021
There were counterfeit coupons
in every crevice of the house.
730
00:30:25,123 --> 00:30:29,093
Her kitchen drawers,
we went through her closets.
731
00:30:29,194 --> 00:30:32,264
Even in the pockets
of the coat jackets
732
00:30:32,364 --> 00:30:34,174
were stuffed with coupons.
733
00:30:34,266 --> 00:30:37,766
Her car, every crevice.
734
00:30:37,869 --> 00:30:40,739
It was astronomical,
the amount of coupons we found,
735
00:30:40,839 --> 00:30:45,109
and the coupons themselves
were valued at
736
00:30:45,210 --> 00:30:47,280
about a million dollars.
[ Ding ]
737
00:30:47,379 --> 00:30:52,049
We also took away her computer
and her cellphone.
738
00:30:52,150 --> 00:30:55,650
Her computer especially had
over 13,000 images
739
00:30:55,754 --> 00:30:57,794
of coupons on them.
740
00:30:57,889 --> 00:31:00,429
We interviewed Ms. Lori Ann,
with her approval,
741
00:31:00,492 --> 00:31:02,192
and we showed her
one of the envelopes,
742
00:31:02,260 --> 00:31:04,030
and the envelope had
a date on it.
743
00:31:04,096 --> 00:31:06,396
We asked her how the envelope
got in her mailbox,
744
00:31:06,465 --> 00:31:09,775
and she was very evasive
with her answers.
745
00:31:09,801 --> 00:31:13,371
We said, "Okay, well, we’ll show
you how it got in your mailbox,"
746
00:31:13,405 --> 00:31:17,345
and I produced a video with
the same date as the envelope
747
00:31:17,409 --> 00:31:20,109
of her putting the envelope
in her mailbox,
748
00:31:20,212 --> 00:31:23,252
and at that point,
you could see it in her face
749
00:31:23,315 --> 00:31:25,125
that she realized
she had been caught,
750
00:31:25,183 --> 00:31:29,493
and she decided to ask
for legal counsel at that point.
751
00:31:29,554 --> 00:31:31,494
Thomasson: She’s now restricted
as to where she can go.
752
00:31:31,556 --> 00:31:32,856
If she stays at the house,
753
00:31:32,924 --> 00:31:34,294
she’s not free
to roam around the house.
754
00:31:34,359 --> 00:31:35,689
She’s in a fixed place
755
00:31:35,794 --> 00:31:37,804
with an agent watching her
the entire time.
756
00:31:37,863 --> 00:31:39,003
She opted to stay
757
00:31:39,064 --> 00:31:41,434
because her kids were still
upstairs sleeping.
758
00:31:41,500 --> 00:31:44,500
So Lori’s now sitting
on her couch in her front room,
759
00:31:44,569 --> 00:31:48,409
watching this parade of
box after box after box
760
00:31:48,507 --> 00:31:50,777
being taken out of the house
as evidence.
761
00:31:50,842 --> 00:31:52,182
I was just, like, in shock.
762
00:31:52,244 --> 00:31:55,054
I was like, "No, this is not
happening to somebody I know."
763
00:31:55,113 --> 00:31:56,853
And then it’s like,
now your reputation is,
764
00:31:56,915 --> 00:31:58,775
you know, messed up
because of this.
765
00:31:58,850 --> 00:32:00,590
I would be embarrassed.
766
00:32:00,652 --> 00:32:02,152
Bopp: To me,
it was heartbreaking.
767
00:32:02,220 --> 00:32:05,490
The last thing that I would like
for any of my friends
768
00:32:05,557 --> 00:32:07,387
is to be in trouble,
769
00:32:07,459 --> 00:32:10,459
especially if they have
little ones.
770
00:32:10,562 --> 00:32:13,362
Thomasson: And I think
the gravity of the situation
771
00:32:13,465 --> 00:32:16,735
was just getting heavier
and heavier on her.
772
00:32:16,835 --> 00:32:18,775
And by the time we were done,
773
00:32:18,870 --> 00:32:20,810
she approached us
and she told us,
774
00:32:20,906 --> 00:32:22,266
after she conferred
with counsel,
775
00:32:22,374 --> 00:32:23,314
she would like to schedule
776
00:32:23,408 --> 00:32:26,138
a time to sit down
and speak with us.
777
00:32:26,211 --> 00:32:29,111
We were provided
a great opportunity.
778
00:32:29,181 --> 00:32:32,851
The goal of the interview was
largely to find out,
779
00:32:32,951 --> 00:32:35,391
okay, how did you
accomplish all this?
780
00:32:35,454 --> 00:32:38,824
Did you have any assistance
from within the industry?
781
00:32:38,890 --> 00:32:41,830
And, of course,
what can we do to prevent this
782
00:32:41,893 --> 00:32:43,363
from happening again?
783
00:32:43,428 --> 00:32:46,628
She provided us how she got into
the counterfeit couponing group,
784
00:32:46,731 --> 00:32:48,001
which was important
for us to know.
785
00:32:48,099 --> 00:32:50,699
She had provided us information
on how she learned
786
00:32:50,802 --> 00:32:54,942
how to produce the coupons,
how she learned how to barcode,
787
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,610
who she worked with,
who her members were.
788
00:32:58,677 --> 00:33:00,577
She was like, "Look, yeah,
I got roped into crime,
789
00:33:00,679 --> 00:33:04,719
but also I was excellent at
crime, like everything else."
790
00:33:04,783 --> 00:33:09,293
Brill: Her coupons were
on high quality, glossy paper,
791
00:33:09,354 --> 00:33:11,764
with the corporate logo,
the product image.
792
00:33:11,857 --> 00:33:12,987
You would never know.
793
00:33:13,058 --> 00:33:16,728
They were indistinguishable
from real coupons.
794
00:33:16,795 --> 00:33:20,205
We had to bring in an actual
counterfeit coupon expert
795
00:33:20,265 --> 00:33:23,945
to analyze all the coupons
that we obtained from her house
796
00:33:24,002 --> 00:33:25,702
to see if they were
actually counterfeit.
797
00:33:25,804 --> 00:33:28,314
They were absolutely perfect.
798
00:33:28,340 --> 00:33:30,680
The financial gain came from
various different sources.
799
00:33:30,742 --> 00:33:33,782
It came from, obviously,
dues paid into the group.
800
00:33:33,879 --> 00:33:36,449
It came from
selling the coupons.
801
00:33:36,548 --> 00:33:40,448
She also would take the coupons
and utilize them herself
802
00:33:40,519 --> 00:33:41,719
so they’re making
a profit off it,
803
00:33:41,786 --> 00:33:43,756
so they’re making
a little bit of money.
804
00:33:43,822 --> 00:33:45,822
Goldberg: Lori wasn’t
the only one clipping profits
805
00:33:45,924 --> 00:33:48,134
from this coupon con.
806
00:33:48,226 --> 00:33:50,186
Pacifico, in his interview,
807
00:33:50,262 --> 00:33:52,562
did admit that he knew
about the coupons.
808
00:33:52,631 --> 00:33:53,661
Obviously, he used them.
809
00:33:53,732 --> 00:33:56,802
His role in this
was helping her ship.
810
00:33:56,835 --> 00:33:59,675
He would drive by a post office
or a blue collection box
811
00:33:59,771 --> 00:34:02,841
on his way to work
and drop them off into the box.
812
00:34:02,941 --> 00:34:04,781
Eventually, he got tired
of doing that,
813
00:34:04,843 --> 00:34:06,613
so he offered the suggestion of,
814
00:34:06,645 --> 00:34:09,215
"Why don’t we just mail these
from the mailbox at the house?"
815
00:34:09,314 --> 00:34:10,624
She agreed to it,
816
00:34:10,715 --> 00:34:12,615
so that’s when they started
putting them in the mailbox
817
00:34:12,717 --> 00:34:14,517
and putting the red flag up.
818
00:34:14,619 --> 00:34:16,989
The biggest piece of the puzzle
that was left at this point
819
00:34:17,022 --> 00:34:20,162
was determining a loss amount
and all the victims.
820
00:34:20,225 --> 00:34:21,835
I’m going through her laptop,
821
00:34:21,893 --> 00:34:25,363
and there’s just all these files
of just barcodes on computers.
822
00:34:25,463 --> 00:34:28,333
There was over 13,000 images.
823
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,000
The two large coupon processors
in the industry
824
00:34:32,070 --> 00:34:36,540
compiled the dollar losses
for every single barcode
825
00:34:36,641 --> 00:34:38,441
that we provided to them
826
00:34:38,510 --> 00:34:42,610
and verified that
they were indeed counterfeit.
827
00:34:42,681 --> 00:34:43,951
Thomasson: Bud called us,
and he said,
828
00:34:44,049 --> 00:34:45,479
"I’ve got your loss amount
for you."
829
00:34:45,517 --> 00:34:47,417
We were thinking maybe we’d
get up to $5, $8 million,
830
00:34:47,485 --> 00:34:50,455
somewhere in that ballpark,
which would be a great case.
831
00:34:50,555 --> 00:34:52,355
Bud comes out
with $31.8 million.
832
00:34:54,593 --> 00:34:55,793
It just kind of
takes your breath away.
833
00:34:55,894 --> 00:34:57,104
You’re amazed at that number.
834
00:34:57,162 --> 00:34:58,302
It’s like,
"Did I hear that right?"
835
00:34:58,363 --> 00:35:00,973
You’re like, "$31 million?"
He’s like, "Yeah."
836
00:35:01,032 --> 00:35:03,072
Goldberg: After ringing up
all the evidence,
837
00:35:03,168 --> 00:35:05,238
Lori Ann and Pacifico Talens
838
00:35:05,337 --> 00:35:07,607
were both charged
with mail fraud,
839
00:35:07,672 --> 00:35:12,382
and Lori Ann also got
a count of wire fraud.
840
00:35:12,477 --> 00:35:16,247
Brill: The loss amount, to us,
was just astronomical.
841
00:35:16,348 --> 00:35:19,218
There was, I believe,
100 companies that were victims,
842
00:35:19,317 --> 00:35:23,217
and one company in particular
lost $8 million.
843
00:35:23,321 --> 00:35:26,121
Goldberg: With $31.8 million
in damages,
844
00:35:26,224 --> 00:35:28,894
will Lori Ann be
made an example of
845
00:35:28,994 --> 00:35:31,434
for the entire coupon community?
846
00:35:31,529 --> 00:35:33,729
♪
847
00:35:39,004 --> 00:35:40,204
♪
848
00:35:40,305 --> 00:35:41,975
Goldberg:
Lori Ann and Pacifico Talens
849
00:35:42,073 --> 00:35:43,173
are under arrest,
850
00:35:43,274 --> 00:35:45,714
and their dark-web coupon con
851
00:35:45,810 --> 00:35:48,550
is brought to light
by news outlets.
852
00:35:48,647 --> 00:35:51,217
The FBI has busted a couple
in what they say is
853
00:35:51,316 --> 00:35:54,546
one of the largest fraud
operations ever discovered.
854
00:35:54,653 --> 00:35:56,853
Female Newsreader: Lori Ann
Talens created and designed
855
00:35:56,955 --> 00:35:59,125
counterfeit coupons
on her home computer,
856
00:35:59,224 --> 00:36:00,534
then sold them online.
857
00:36:00,625 --> 00:36:03,785
This also shows how much of
a con artist this woman was.
858
00:36:03,895 --> 00:36:07,595
Goldberg:
For an artist who made so many
fake coupons look perfect,
859
00:36:07,699 --> 00:36:11,039
what exactly does
perfect justice look like?
860
00:36:11,136 --> 00:36:13,966
Brill: Lori Ann decided to plead
to a criminal information,
861
00:36:14,072 --> 00:36:16,242
meaning that she wanted
to cooperate well before
862
00:36:16,341 --> 00:36:19,111
we got to the phase of indicting
with a grand jury,
863
00:36:19,210 --> 00:36:21,110
and that works out to her favor.
864
00:36:21,212 --> 00:36:22,552
It prevents her
from getting slammed
865
00:36:22,647 --> 00:36:24,247
with a whole bunch of charges,
866
00:36:24,315 --> 00:36:27,185
and it shows that
she’s being cooperative.
867
00:36:27,218 --> 00:36:30,618
Lori did plead guilty
to mail fraud and wire fraud,
868
00:36:30,689 --> 00:36:35,359
and she ends up being sentenced
to 12 years in prison for this,
869
00:36:35,427 --> 00:36:37,797
and her husband, Pacifico,
pled guilty to mail fraud,
870
00:36:37,862 --> 00:36:39,262
and gets seven.
871
00:36:39,364 --> 00:36:42,074
♪
872
00:36:42,133 --> 00:36:43,373
Goldberg:
While the investigation into
873
00:36:43,435 --> 00:36:45,775
the counterfeit coupon ring
continues,
874
00:36:45,837 --> 00:36:48,837
Lori Ann’s accomplices
could face charges.
875
00:36:48,940 --> 00:36:51,780
But for now,
Lori Ann and Pacifico
876
00:36:51,843 --> 00:36:54,113
are the only ones in prison.
877
00:36:54,179 --> 00:36:57,779
So far, the biggest victims
are their children,
878
00:36:57,849 --> 00:37:00,019
who will now be raised
by their grandparents,
879
00:37:00,085 --> 00:37:03,395
a five-hour drive from
their mother’s prison cell.
880
00:37:03,488 --> 00:37:05,518
Thomasson:
You feel bad for the kids.
881
00:37:05,590 --> 00:37:07,330
They’ve lost
both their parents now.
882
00:37:07,392 --> 00:37:09,992
But you don’t really feel sorry
for Lori and Pacifico,
883
00:37:10,061 --> 00:37:11,561
’cause they made those choices.
884
00:37:11,629 --> 00:37:13,559
At any point in time,
they could have stopped.
885
00:37:14,899 --> 00:37:18,199
But she just kept expanding
and getting bigger.
886
00:37:18,303 --> 00:37:20,243
Pacifico kept doing
the ostrich defense --
887
00:37:20,305 --> 00:37:22,345
stick your head in the sand
and turn a blind eye to it.
888
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,680
And in the end, they both paid
the ultimate price,
889
00:37:25,744 --> 00:37:27,814
which is their freedom.
890
00:37:27,912 --> 00:37:29,252
Orpilla:
I’m not mad at her.
891
00:37:29,347 --> 00:37:30,247
I’m a little disappointed,
892
00:37:30,348 --> 00:37:31,918
because the choices
that they made
893
00:37:31,983 --> 00:37:35,153
are making their whole family
suffer financially, emotionally,
894
00:37:35,220 --> 00:37:39,120
and I feel, as a mother,
that that’s just really sad.
895
00:37:39,190 --> 00:37:42,360
Like, I look at my kids --
I have three kids, as well --
896
00:37:42,427 --> 00:37:45,757
I just can’t imagine
being put somewhere, you know,
897
00:37:45,830 --> 00:37:48,530
and not being able
to see them every day, hug,
898
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,800
you know, be there for their
moments, their life moments.
899
00:37:51,870 --> 00:37:53,900
That’s -- That’s heartbreaking.
900
00:37:53,972 --> 00:37:59,542
Even though she’s a con,
you know, according to the law,
901
00:37:59,611 --> 00:38:01,051
she has a good heart.
902
00:38:01,146 --> 00:38:02,706
She really does.
903
00:38:02,781 --> 00:38:08,551
She would be giving donations to
church, to animal shelters.
904
00:38:08,653 --> 00:38:12,063
I guess I can call her
the Virginia Beach Robin Hood.
905
00:38:12,157 --> 00:38:14,127
[ Laughs ]
906
00:38:15,026 --> 00:38:16,726
Orpilla: She was taking from
these big companies
907
00:38:16,828 --> 00:38:20,298
and donating the items
from her coupon haul
908
00:38:20,365 --> 00:38:22,705
to people that needed it.
909
00:38:22,801 --> 00:38:24,571
Yeah, you can look at it
that way.
910
00:38:24,636 --> 00:38:25,796
That’s a lot of stuff, though.
911
00:38:25,870 --> 00:38:30,010
I mean I -- Yeah,
that’s a lot of free stuff.
912
00:38:30,074 --> 00:38:32,084
Walton: A lot of people
are conflicted about
913
00:38:32,177 --> 00:38:34,607
Lori and Pacifico’s
jail sentences.
914
00:38:34,679 --> 00:38:36,309
On one hand,
they call her a Robin Hood,
915
00:38:36,414 --> 00:38:39,124
but on the other hand,
she’s just another scammer
916
00:38:39,184 --> 00:38:43,724
who figured out an ingenious way
to get money from the system
917
00:38:43,822 --> 00:38:45,562
without being caught for years.
918
00:38:45,657 --> 00:38:47,057
I feel both ways about it.
919
00:38:47,158 --> 00:38:50,058
I feel bad for her kids,
but I’m glad she got caught.
920
00:38:50,161 --> 00:38:52,331
She cost supermarkets
and suppliers
921
00:38:52,430 --> 00:38:54,470
more than $30 million.
922
00:38:54,566 --> 00:38:56,496
Thomasson:
The impact that she made,
923
00:38:56,601 --> 00:38:59,101
it doesn’t just affect the
manufacturers and the retailers.
924
00:38:59,204 --> 00:39:00,774
It affects everyday Americans.
925
00:39:00,872 --> 00:39:02,112
She conned them,
926
00:39:02,207 --> 00:39:05,807
because now they’re having
to pay for what she did.
927
00:39:05,910 --> 00:39:08,450
She conned America.
928
00:39:08,546 --> 00:39:10,006
Cataldo: Was justice served
in this case?
929
00:39:10,114 --> 00:39:11,354
Yes, I think it was.
930
00:39:11,449 --> 00:39:14,849
From what I have read,
Lori regrets what she did,
931
00:39:14,953 --> 00:39:16,793
and understands
that it was wrong.
932
00:39:16,888 --> 00:39:20,118
Goldberg: Lori Ann’s story
is a cautionary tale,
933
00:39:20,225 --> 00:39:22,565
one that she shares
from behind the walls
934
00:39:22,660 --> 00:39:25,300
of a federal prison
in West Virginia.
935
00:39:25,396 --> 00:39:27,726
[ Telephone beeping ]
936
00:39:27,832 --> 00:39:30,802
Woman: This call is from
a federal prison.
937
00:40:51,382 --> 00:40:57,662
♪
938
00:40:57,755 --> 00:40:59,315
♪
939
00:40:59,424 --> 00:41:00,834
Brill: It still
blows me away
940
00:41:00,925 --> 00:41:03,025
that counterfeit couponing
is a thing,
941
00:41:03,127 --> 00:41:06,557
and that it’s out there,
that it’s this complex,
942
00:41:06,664 --> 00:41:10,534
and to know that this is such
a lucrative-type scheme
943
00:41:10,635 --> 00:41:12,575
was absolutely mind-blowing.
944
00:41:12,670 --> 00:41:16,310
♪
945
00:41:16,407 --> 00:41:19,437
-- Captions by VITAC --