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Goldberg: Jim Bakker and
his wife, Tammy Faye Bakker,
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were the first superstars
of televangelism.
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Jim made a fortune fleecing
his flock over the airwaves.
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It was a con that knew
no earthly limits.
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♪
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Mosley: They’re buying cars.
They’re buying boats, Jet Skis.
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Imagine what a rapper
would purchase.
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He had the best grift ever.
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Dowdy: When he would
walk around the compound,
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it was like Jesus
was walking around.
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Ethridge:
I wake up every morning
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with the thought
of what happened here.
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[ Sobbing ]
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[ Sobbing ] Why are you doing
all this to me?
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Goldberg:
And if you thought you heard
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the last of the reverend...
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think again.
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Jim Bakker
is a snake-oil salesman.
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It’s a Jim Bakker reboot.
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Like, I don’t want to watch it.
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Dowdy: Even after
he got in trouble,
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I think the temptation of money
is just too much for him.
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He’s figured out the cure
for COVID.
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Mosely: Don’t do this at home.
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I cannot believe this.
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Ethridge:
Jim Bakker was probably
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one of the greatest con men
that ever has lived.
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[ Ethereal music plays ]
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I’m Whoopi Goldberg,
and this is "The Con."
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-- Captions by VITAC --
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♪
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♪
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Goldberg: Scam Goddess
Laci Mosley has made a career
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out of dissecting the world’s
most infamous con artists.
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So she’s well-versed
in the gospel,
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according to Jim Bakker.
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This story is exceptional
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because we’re talking
about a man who, at one point,
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was a household name --
Jim Bakker.
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[ Cheers and applause ]
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Goldberg: Jim and Tammy Faye
were such well-known icons
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that they were lampooned
on "SNL" in the ’80s.
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What drove Tammy
to take those Valium?
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Oh, it was Jimmy
and his little girlfriend.
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[ Laughter ]
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And their story
remains the subject
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of true fascination
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since Jim and Tammy Faye
were immortalized
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by Andrew Garfield
and Jessica Chastain
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in the big-budget biopic,
"The Eyes of Tammy Faye."
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We’re not doing
anything wrong, though.
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Is that a question?
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He worshiped the Lord
and preached about God,
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but, in my opinion,
I think he thought he was God.
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♪
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Goldberg: So let’s just
go back to the beginning.
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[ Rewinding ]
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The year is 1965,
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and newly married
Jim and Tammy Faye
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are humble
traveling preachers.
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A puppet show they used in their
sermons to draw in children
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caught the eye
of Pat Robertson
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who had just started
a tiny TV operation
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called the Christian
Broadcasting Network.
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Jim and Tammy’s puppet show
became their first TV hit,
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quickly becoming
the most popular show on CBN.
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That star turn paved the way
for the creation
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of their very own
television station, PTL.
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Mosley: Jim Bakker
kind of saw himself
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as a Johnny Carson.
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Like, "What if I could be
a talk show host?"
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So, after touring
and doing this puppet show
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and appearing on television,
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a light bulb goes off
in Jim Bakker’s head,
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"This could be
incredibly lucrative."
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Goldberg:
As Jim’s celebrity grew,
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he looked less like
a man of faith
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and more like a rock star,
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complete with an entourage
and personal security.
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Hardister:
I was the security director
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and executive protection
specialist.
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I was with Jim
from the time he got up
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till the time he went to bed.
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There was a huge difference
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between him being
on TV and off TV.
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Off television,
he was a very shy individual.
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But when the red light
on the camera came on,
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he was bigger than life.
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[ Applause ]
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Goldberg:
Bakker had a knack for knowing
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just what his audience
wanted to hear,
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and he had the ticket
for the "greed is good" 1980s,
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the prosperity gospel.
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Jim: Go out and claim the home
that your faith allows you.
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Goldberg: Well, he sure did.
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Jim is still a household name,
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so his faith allowed him
to claim quite a few assets.
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Prosperity gospel comes
from certain verses in the Bible
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that suggest
if you believe in God,
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if you follow God,
you will be prosperous.
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And it’s fairly easy
to slip into.
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Because if you have money
and if you believe in God,
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of course you want to say,
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"Well, God gave all
these things to me,
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and I deserve them because
God says that he loves me,
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and he’s given
these things to me."
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"If you get me rich,
you will also in turn be rich."
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Now that math doesn’t
quite math for me,
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but people believed it,
and they donated a lot.
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♪
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Hardister: We didn’t have
paid advertising.
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We simply made appeals
directly to the people
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that were watching our program
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and said, "Hey,
this is what we’re doing,
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and if you’d like to be
a part of it, help us."
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Cheney: He did so well
because he used
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both positive
and negative emotions
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to get people to donate to him.
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Jim: If you don’t give,
you’ll not receive.
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It’s God’s fixed law.
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Cheney: So you have
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fear, guilt, anger tactics
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where it’s like,
"We’re almost out of money.
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If these people don’t donate,
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we’ll have to turn off
the lights of the studio."
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Or, "Oh, well, everyone
in America is a sinner,
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and you’re a sinner.
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And if you want to
repent for your sins
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and you want to help us,
donate money."
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And then you have the really
positive side of things.
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Listen to Tammy Faye sing
this incredible,
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riotous, stomp-your-feet song.
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Look at the love of Jesus
in her heart.
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♪ Oooh, how the Savior came ♪
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Of course you’re gonna send
in money to support them.
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[ Choir vocalizing ]
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Goldberg: Bakker had already
conquered American television
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with his Christian talk show.
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Now he looked to the heavens
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to create the first
Christian satellite network
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to beam the good news
to every corner of the Earth.
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♪
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Ethridge: The whole reason that
The Charlotte Observer
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started covering PTL
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wasn’t because we were
particularly interested
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in religion or Jim Bakker.
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We were covering it because
it was a big local business.
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It was a money machine.
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♪
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The checks would come in,
bags and bags of mail.
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I saw the counting room one
time, and it was phenomenal.
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It looked like the post office.
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Hardister: We were sent
all types of things.
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People sent jewelry, fur coats,
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and, you know,
anything that they had
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that they thought, at different
times, that could help us,
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they’d send it to us.
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Sometimes, they would just put
a photo of Jim on the envelope.
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Or they would just write
"PTL Club" and it got to us.
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Ethridge: And there were
Brinks armored cars
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who came to collect.
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I mean, it was hundreds
of thousands of dollars a day,
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in some cases.
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Mosley: They had
a whole room dedicated
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to counting money.
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Like Scrooge McDuck,
essentially.
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Just a room full of money.
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Ethridge: Here was massive
construction going on,
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TV people, networks,
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all sorts of folks coming in
from all over the country
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to star on the show.
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It became an industry.
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Goldberg:
Behind all that charisma,
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PTL grew into one of the
biggest television networks
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in the country.
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ABC had "Three’s Company",
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CBS had "The Jeffersons",
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NBC had "The Waltons",
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and then there was
Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker --
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the Ken and Barbie
of TV evangelism,
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complete with a dream house,
famously living the high life.
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Mosley: Jim and Tammy Bakker
are riding high on Big Bible.
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And with that fame and notoriety
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also comes...a scandal.
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[ Reporters shouting ]
Reporter: Are you planning
on coming back?
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[ Applause ]
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Goldberg: Jim and Tammy Faye
were ascending
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to the top
of televangelism world.
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Jim had a vision,
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and he knew how to put the
fundraising together on PTL.
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I just --
I never saw him miss.
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Most of it was on the backs
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of people that gave us
$10, $15 a month.
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Goldberg:
PTL broadcast has received
14 million potential donors.
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Oh, I’m sorry.
I mean viewers.
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Its growth was
shocking and rapid.
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PTL was this global machine.
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Goldberg: But Jim wasn’t
content to stop there.
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No, he had a much
bigger prize on his mind --
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a heaven on earth.
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Hardister: I remember the
morning that we were coming in
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to do the program,
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and he pointed
to this field and said,
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"Turn down in that field."
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And so I’m coming
through this field,
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and he stops and gets out,
takes a stick,
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and he starts drawing
on the ground.
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And I just went over and said,
"Boss, what are you doing?"
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And he said, "Don, I’m gonna
build a hotel out here."
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♪
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Reporter: We stood on what will
soon be something akin
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to Frontierland at Disney World,
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as Reverend Bakker unveiled
the drawings and blueprints
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for his newest project --
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Heritage Grand Hotel
and Grand Street.
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They decided to make
a theme park.
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Hardister: It was a huge
construction project,
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one of the largest family
attractions in this country.
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Reporter: Bakker says
he doesn’t mind the label
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"Christian Disney World"
as a description of his plans
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to create a place
where PTL members
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can vacation with inspiration.
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Hardister: It was expensive.
We had to raise money.
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♪
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Goldberg: Bakker didn’t want
to take out a loan
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to pay for Heritage USA,
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well, at least not
from the bank.
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He starts selling timeshares.
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He gets on TV
and tells his people,
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"You give me $1,000,
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I’ll give you vacations
for the rest of your life
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at Heritage USA."
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The initial cost estimates
for the hotel were $25 million.
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So, if they got 25,000
lifetime partners,
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that would pay for the entire
construction debt-free.
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The problem was that once
they reached 25,000,
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the money was just too easy,
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so Bakker just kept
going on his show.
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It was a brilliant concept.
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People loved it.
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In fact, that was the problem.
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Goldberg: Turns out,
the deal was so popular,
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it wasn’t long before Bakker
had sold the hotel to capacity.
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And then he did it again...
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and again.
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[ Cash register dings ]
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And that lack of restraint,
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well, that’s what will
come to define
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Jim Bakker’s story.
250
00:11:01,361 --> 00:11:03,261
He’s got 500 hotel rooms
251
00:11:03,363 --> 00:11:06,073
to accommodate
66,000 people every year.
252
00:11:06,132 --> 00:11:07,672
I mean, you do the math on that.
253
00:11:07,734 --> 00:11:09,104
He had no intention
of accommodating
254
00:11:09,169 --> 00:11:10,369
all these people
for the rest of their lives.
255
00:11:10,436 --> 00:11:12,506
He just wanted
their 1,000 bucks.
256
00:11:12,572 --> 00:11:14,572
Wigger:
Big money started rolling in.
257
00:11:14,641 --> 00:11:19,481
From 1984 to 1987,
he raised about $160 million.
258
00:11:19,546 --> 00:11:21,906
♪
259
00:11:22,015 --> 00:11:23,585
It had a water park.
260
00:11:23,650 --> 00:11:24,750
Jim: You know,
we’re the first Christians
261
00:11:24,851 --> 00:11:26,621
to ever have a wave pool.
262
00:11:26,686 --> 00:11:28,246
Goldberg: Where else
can you get baptized
263
00:11:28,321 --> 00:11:30,561
and hang ten in the pool?
264
00:11:30,623 --> 00:11:35,233
It had homes that people could
buy and live on the campus.
265
00:11:35,328 --> 00:11:38,228
It had the home
for unwed mothers.
266
00:11:38,298 --> 00:11:39,628
There was, of course,
the auditorium
267
00:11:39,699 --> 00:11:42,199
where Jim Bakker
recorded his show.
268
00:11:42,268 --> 00:11:45,238
Jim and Tammy Faye
lived on the premises.
269
00:11:45,305 --> 00:11:49,445
It basically became the
epicenter of Jim Bakker’s world.
270
00:11:49,542 --> 00:11:52,242
Goldberg:
And what vacation is complete
271
00:11:52,345 --> 00:11:54,555
without a trip to the gift shop?
272
00:11:54,647 --> 00:11:58,517
Visitors could take home
Tammy Faye’s religious albums,
273
00:11:58,618 --> 00:12:01,048
books by Jim, and, come on,
274
00:12:01,154 --> 00:12:04,964
G.I. JOE is no match for
the Bible’s action figures.
275
00:12:05,058 --> 00:12:06,758
All of these things
for Christians were huge
276
00:12:06,859 --> 00:12:10,229
because they just really
hadn’t been done before at all.
277
00:12:11,231 --> 00:12:12,801
Goldberg: In 1986,
278
00:12:12,899 --> 00:12:16,569
6 million people
visited Heritage USA.
279
00:12:16,669 --> 00:12:19,609
That made it the third
most visited attraction
280
00:12:19,706 --> 00:12:21,306
in the United States.
281
00:12:21,407 --> 00:12:25,037
It seemed like this
small corner of the Carolinas
282
00:12:25,144 --> 00:12:26,854
had paid off big,
283
00:12:26,946 --> 00:12:29,716
but it was this
Christian theme park
284
00:12:29,816 --> 00:12:34,346
that turned the Bakker’s life
into a roller coaster.
285
00:12:34,454 --> 00:12:36,564
Wigger: A lot of the money
raised was diverted
286
00:12:36,656 --> 00:12:39,056
to pay
for this extravagant lifestyle.
287
00:12:39,158 --> 00:12:41,228
It was a little bit
of a shell game --
288
00:12:41,327 --> 00:12:44,127
raising money for this
but using it for that.
289
00:12:44,230 --> 00:12:46,670
Goldberg: Using church funds
to live large
290
00:12:46,766 --> 00:12:49,096
didn’t seem to be
a problem for Jim,
291
00:12:49,202 --> 00:12:51,872
as long as it was all
out in the open.
292
00:12:51,971 --> 00:12:54,511
But what about his private life?
293
00:12:54,607 --> 00:12:57,937
Can a man of God recover
from a sex scandal?
294
00:12:58,044 --> 00:13:00,584
And as disgraceful
as that sounds,
295
00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:04,420
it’s just a sneak preview
for what was to come.
296
00:13:04,517 --> 00:13:06,117
♪
297
00:13:15,862 --> 00:13:18,102
Goldberg:
Jim Bakker has made it.
298
00:13:18,197 --> 00:13:20,697
He’s a TV star
with a faithful flock
299
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,740
that has afforded him
and Tammy Faye the good life.
300
00:13:24,771 --> 00:13:29,911
He seems unstoppable as he flies
closer and closer to the sun.
301
00:13:29,976 --> 00:13:31,376
♪
302
00:13:31,444 --> 00:13:34,514
At this point,
money is being hurled at them.
303
00:13:34,580 --> 00:13:36,950
They have more money
than they know what to do with.
304
00:13:37,050 --> 00:13:40,590
They’re buying cars.
They’re buying boats, Jet Skis.
305
00:13:40,653 --> 00:13:43,623
Imagine what a rapper
would purchase.
306
00:13:43,690 --> 00:13:45,860
Well, I have to do what I feel
is right before the Lord.
307
00:13:45,925 --> 00:13:47,025
And, you know,
I really don’t care.
308
00:13:47,126 --> 00:13:48,356
[ Laughter ]
309
00:13:48,428 --> 00:13:50,598
Mosley:
After a few years of doing this,
310
00:13:50,697 --> 00:13:54,327
there are rumors and rumblings
about Jim and Tammy Faye
311
00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,970
misappropriating PTL funds.
312
00:13:58,037 --> 00:14:00,537
Goldberg:
PTL was supposed to be a code
313
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,240
that evangelicals would
recognize as "Praise the Lord."
314
00:14:04,310 --> 00:14:06,850
But to many,
it stood for something else.
315
00:14:06,913 --> 00:14:12,423
PTL was widely known
as "Pass the Loot" Club,
316
00:14:12,485 --> 00:14:14,325
not "Praise the Lord."
317
00:14:14,387 --> 00:14:16,587
[ Applause ]
318
00:14:16,656 --> 00:14:19,926
Eventually, the media starts
breaking stories
319
00:14:20,026 --> 00:14:21,986
about what they’re been
spending their money on,
320
00:14:22,095 --> 00:14:24,465
and it’s not giving Godly.
321
00:14:24,497 --> 00:14:28,567
Goldberg: It seems that the
excesses of Bakker’s lifestyle
322
00:14:28,634 --> 00:14:31,274
in the wake
of his timeshare scam
323
00:14:31,337 --> 00:14:34,807
had diminished his good graces
in the media,
324
00:14:34,907 --> 00:14:37,237
which left him
especially vulnerable
325
00:14:37,343 --> 00:14:39,143
to the bombshell news report
326
00:14:39,245 --> 00:14:42,075
that would cost him
his ministry.
327
00:14:42,181 --> 00:14:43,921
Donaldson:
Famous evangelist Jim Bakker
328
00:14:44,016 --> 00:14:45,376
caught up in a sex scandal.
329
00:14:45,451 --> 00:14:47,921
Reporter: Bakker, who hosts
the show with his wife, Tammy,
330
00:14:48,020 --> 00:14:51,120
admitted he paid
over $100,000 in hush money
331
00:14:51,224 --> 00:14:52,994
to cover up
an illicit love affair.
332
00:14:53,059 --> 00:14:56,329
He said he was being blackmailed
because of a sexual encounter.
333
00:14:56,396 --> 00:15:00,166
Wigger: Hush money was paid to
a church secretary in New York
334
00:15:00,233 --> 00:15:02,703
after a sexual encounter
with Jim Bakker.
335
00:15:02,769 --> 00:15:05,239
Jim Bakker does
and everyone else does,
336
00:15:05,304 --> 00:15:06,814
but I have not talked about it.
337
00:15:06,873 --> 00:15:08,713
Jim Bakker got on TV
and discussed it.
338
00:15:08,808 --> 00:15:09,878
Not me.
339
00:15:09,942 --> 00:15:12,312
Well, it had a very
negative impact on us.
340
00:15:12,378 --> 00:15:14,578
It was devastating on Tammy.
341
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,250
♪
342
00:15:17,350 --> 00:15:21,120
So, once the sex scandal
broke in March 1987,
343
00:15:21,187 --> 00:15:24,687
PTL’s fundraising
was in shambles.
344
00:15:24,757 --> 00:15:29,727
Bakker realized that
he couldn’t stay at PTL.
345
00:15:29,796 --> 00:15:32,926
He knew that he needed to
find someone to take his place.
346
00:15:33,900 --> 00:15:38,040
Goldberg:
And what trusted man of God
did he choose to mind the flock?
347
00:15:38,104 --> 00:15:40,144
We are here to do
what we were charged to do
348
00:15:40,239 --> 00:15:43,279
and that is to maintain
the stability of the ministry,
349
00:15:43,342 --> 00:15:45,282
rebuild its credibility,
350
00:15:45,344 --> 00:15:50,524
and guarantee the ongoing
testimony of Christ therefrom.
351
00:15:50,616 --> 00:15:55,116
When Bakker agreed to
turn PTL over to Jerry Falwell,
352
00:15:55,188 --> 00:15:58,318
they did this in a hotel room
353
00:15:58,391 --> 00:16:01,991
where they were the only
two people in the room.
354
00:16:02,061 --> 00:16:05,101
Bakker later said that
Falwell agreed simply
355
00:16:05,164 --> 00:16:08,004
to run the ministry
for six months
356
00:16:08,067 --> 00:16:10,637
while Jim tried
to rehabilitate himself,
357
00:16:10,736 --> 00:16:15,436
and then allow Jim to come back
and take control of PTL again.
358
00:16:15,508 --> 00:16:20,208
Falwell came in and quickly
discovered more malfeasance,
359
00:16:20,279 --> 00:16:23,119
like money that had
been diverted
360
00:16:23,182 --> 00:16:27,222
and other allegations
of sexual impropriety.
361
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,720
At that point,
Jerry Falwell made clear
362
00:16:30,790 --> 00:16:33,360
that Bakker was not
going to come back.
363
00:16:33,426 --> 00:16:34,986
I would be doing
a disservice to God
364
00:16:35,061 --> 00:16:37,501
to allow you to come back here
now or ever.
365
00:16:37,597 --> 00:16:40,027
Goldberg: It wasn’t long
before their power struggle
366
00:16:40,099 --> 00:16:43,369
was dragged into the muck
and onto TV.
367
00:16:43,436 --> 00:16:46,236
Well, the thing about
Jim Bakker and Jerry Falwell
368
00:16:46,305 --> 00:16:49,305
was that they were both
really media savvy.
369
00:16:49,375 --> 00:16:51,975
So, when Falwell held
press conferences...
370
00:16:52,044 --> 00:16:55,954
He needs to return
the millions of dollars
371
00:16:56,015 --> 00:16:58,075
that have been taken from
the coffers of this ministry
372
00:16:58,184 --> 00:17:00,824
at the cost
of widows and supporters.
373
00:17:00,887 --> 00:17:03,587
...Bakker also responded
by going on television.
374
00:17:03,656 --> 00:17:06,426
It’s already been called
a civil war and a holy war.
375
00:17:06,492 --> 00:17:11,562
Many fellow televangelists
were telling them to stay quiet
376
00:17:11,631 --> 00:17:15,031
and not respond
to the other camp.
377
00:17:15,101 --> 00:17:19,611
But, you know, having them stay
quiet was a pretty tough order.
378
00:17:19,672 --> 00:17:22,712
Jim Bakker thought it would be
a good idea to go on "Nightline"
379
00:17:22,775 --> 00:17:24,675
and talk to Ted Koppel.
380
00:17:24,744 --> 00:17:26,984
This, in fact, was a bad idea.
381
00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:28,409
Just relax.
382
00:17:28,481 --> 00:17:30,781
There’s no need
to get uptight.
383
00:17:30,850 --> 00:17:32,620
Hardister: I knew it
wasn’t gonna go well.
384
00:17:32,685 --> 00:17:35,725
I knew it was gonna be a win
for Ted Koppel and "Nightline."
385
00:17:35,788 --> 00:17:36,988
I knew he would know
386
00:17:37,056 --> 00:17:38,856
how to drill in
on some of these questions,
387
00:17:38,925 --> 00:17:41,335
and I knew the answers
were not gonna be there.
388
00:17:41,427 --> 00:17:44,427
The continuing saga
of the PTL Club
389
00:17:44,497 --> 00:17:46,667
have taken on
the irresistible dimensions
390
00:17:46,732 --> 00:17:48,202
of a national soap opera.
391
00:17:48,267 --> 00:17:52,037
We’d go back to PTL and work
for nothing [chuckles]
392
00:17:52,138 --> 00:17:53,668
if God wants that.
393
00:17:53,739 --> 00:17:56,679
Yeah, well, maybe you would,
but you didn’t.
394
00:17:56,742 --> 00:17:57,942
And the fact of the matter is,
395
00:17:58,010 --> 00:17:59,410
not only did you not
work for nothing,
396
00:17:59,512 --> 00:18:00,982
you worked for a great deal.
397
00:18:01,047 --> 00:18:03,147
And if I was someone
who worked for Jim Bakker,
398
00:18:03,215 --> 00:18:05,475
at some point, I would have just
jumped in front of the cameras.
399
00:18:05,551 --> 00:18:07,521
I would have
unplugged everything,
400
00:18:07,587 --> 00:18:09,247
turned off the lights,
shut it down.
401
00:18:09,322 --> 00:18:11,422
This was a terrible decision.
402
00:18:11,457 --> 00:18:15,227
I mean, you know, money is so
trivial, so irrelevant to them.
403
00:18:15,328 --> 00:18:16,628
Right?
404
00:18:16,729 --> 00:18:17,959
Jerry Falwell,
405
00:18:18,030 --> 00:18:20,830
at a press conference
earlier that day,
406
00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:25,140
had brought out this little note
handwritten from Tammy Faye.
407
00:18:25,204 --> 00:18:27,574
From the desk
of Tammy Bakker.
408
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:29,640
Koppel: There was just
this shopping list
409
00:18:29,709 --> 00:18:31,909
in which she’s sort of
laying out the,
410
00:18:31,978 --> 00:18:33,978
"All right,
you want us to go quietly?
411
00:18:34,046 --> 00:18:36,416
Here’s what we want."
412
00:18:36,482 --> 00:18:41,452
Jim’s salary for a lifetime
at $300,000 per year.
413
00:18:41,554 --> 00:18:44,864
Tammy’s salary for a lifetime,
$100,000 annually.
414
00:18:44,957 --> 00:18:47,187
I don’t see any concern
for the welfare of this ministry
415
00:18:47,293 --> 00:18:48,933
in that kind of request.
416
00:18:49,028 --> 00:18:52,598
Imagine doing an interview
where you just tell on yourself
417
00:18:52,698 --> 00:18:55,198
in so many ways --
implicate yourself.
418
00:18:55,301 --> 00:18:59,611
Ted, what Jerry did
was he asked us
419
00:18:59,705 --> 00:19:04,375
what he --
what we felt that,
420
00:19:04,477 --> 00:19:05,837
after all these years
of ministry
421
00:19:05,945 --> 00:19:09,285
and leaving the ministry,
what we should have.
422
00:19:09,382 --> 00:19:11,222
And, you know,
when you’re negotiating...
423
00:19:11,317 --> 00:19:13,547
You start out at the top.
424
00:19:13,653 --> 00:19:14,953
Wow.
425
00:19:15,054 --> 00:19:18,194
Here they were,
these poor babes in the wood.
426
00:19:18,290 --> 00:19:20,490
Lambs who had been sheared.
427
00:19:20,593 --> 00:19:21,493
God loves you.
428
00:19:21,594 --> 00:19:23,564
But when it came
right down to it,
429
00:19:23,663 --> 00:19:24,863
they were
tough negotiators.
430
00:19:24,964 --> 00:19:26,474
God loves you.
431
00:19:26,565 --> 00:19:27,795
He really does.
He really, really, does.
432
00:19:27,900 --> 00:19:28,930
Bye-bye.
433
00:19:29,035 --> 00:19:30,305
All right,
thank you both very much
434
00:19:30,403 --> 00:19:31,473
for being with us.
435
00:19:31,570 --> 00:19:32,570
Good night.
436
00:19:32,672 --> 00:19:34,812
Goldberg: The interview
was a train wreck
437
00:19:34,907 --> 00:19:37,277
and a television sensation.
438
00:19:37,376 --> 00:19:38,976
If it were me,
I think I’d wanna go hide
439
00:19:39,078 --> 00:19:40,478
for the rest of my life.
440
00:19:40,579 --> 00:19:42,179
Uh, that -- I --
441
00:19:42,281 --> 00:19:44,051
Goldberg: Jim Bakker
had been caught
442
00:19:44,150 --> 00:19:47,250
in a sex
and financial scandal...
443
00:19:47,353 --> 00:19:49,863
exiled from his cash cow
ministry,
444
00:19:49,955 --> 00:19:53,325
and embarrassed on his home
turf -- national television.
445
00:19:53,426 --> 00:19:54,686
[ Sobbing ]
446
00:19:54,794 --> 00:19:56,264
But after all of that,
447
00:19:56,362 --> 00:19:59,432
his reckoning
had only just begun.
448
00:19:59,532 --> 00:20:01,732
Remember that
construction project
449
00:20:01,834 --> 00:20:03,874
with limitless fundraising?
450
00:20:03,969 --> 00:20:06,169
A federal grand jury today
handed down indictments
451
00:20:06,272 --> 00:20:08,372
against Bakker
and three church associates,
452
00:20:08,474 --> 00:20:10,784
charging them
with fraud and conspiracy.
453
00:20:10,876 --> 00:20:14,206
Goldberg: Well, it was about
to hit him like a ton of bricks.
454
00:20:14,313 --> 00:20:16,223
We will appeal.
455
00:20:16,315 --> 00:20:18,615
Goldberg: You’d think
he’d learn his lesson,
456
00:20:18,718 --> 00:20:20,886
but wait...there’s more.
457
00:20:20,886 --> 00:20:31,196
Goldberg:
After losing the holy war
458
00:20:31,297 --> 00:20:32,927
and cast out of his own church,
459
00:20:33,032 --> 00:20:35,572
Jim Bakker has seemingly
lost the glow
460
00:20:35,634 --> 00:20:37,544
of the media spotlight.
461
00:20:37,603 --> 00:20:39,843
But Jim does not hit rock bottom
462
00:20:39,905 --> 00:20:44,105
until he feels the heat
from the federal prosecutors.
463
00:20:44,176 --> 00:20:46,506
A federal grand jury today
handed down indictments
464
00:20:46,579 --> 00:20:48,749
against Bakker
and three church associates,
465
00:20:48,814 --> 00:20:51,054
charging them
with fraud and conspiracy.
466
00:20:51,150 --> 00:20:53,720
At this point,
it’s not just an issue of them
467
00:20:53,786 --> 00:20:57,586
destroying their reputation
and the public goodwill,
468
00:20:57,656 --> 00:20:59,826
Jim Bakker was
in serious trouble.
469
00:20:59,925 --> 00:21:02,625
Goldberg:
Serious trouble with the law.
470
00:21:02,695 --> 00:21:07,475
Those 66 timeshares
Jim oversold at Heritage USA
471
00:21:07,566 --> 00:21:10,236
might book him a stay
at Club Fed.
472
00:21:10,336 --> 00:21:13,666
Jim decided to sell
fake timeshares.
473
00:21:13,739 --> 00:21:15,169
So the government gets involved,
474
00:21:15,274 --> 00:21:17,784
and Jim is charged
with 24 counts,
475
00:21:17,843 --> 00:21:21,213
some of which include
conspiracy, mail fraud,
476
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,950
and misappropriation
of construction funds.
477
00:21:24,016 --> 00:21:27,216
Goldberg: Sunny Hostin doesn’t
just play a lawyer on TV,
478
00:21:27,319 --> 00:21:29,089
she was actually
a federal prosecutor.
479
00:21:29,188 --> 00:21:30,588
So, legally speaking,
480
00:21:30,656 --> 00:21:32,856
she knows when there’s
blood in the water.
481
00:21:32,892 --> 00:21:35,392
There are a lot of paper
receipts for things like that.
482
00:21:35,461 --> 00:21:38,161
And prosecutors,
especially federal ones,
483
00:21:38,230 --> 00:21:39,670
we love that kind of thing.
484
00:21:39,732 --> 00:21:43,442
So, essentially they’ve
become righteous robbers.
485
00:21:43,502 --> 00:21:45,702
I went into the courtroom
486
00:21:45,805 --> 00:21:48,715
innocent of the charges
against me,
487
00:21:48,808 --> 00:21:51,138
and I come out today
still innocent
488
00:21:51,243 --> 00:21:53,353
of the charges against me.
489
00:21:53,445 --> 00:21:57,815
It was just
a real-life telenovela.
490
00:21:57,883 --> 00:22:00,753
Everyone was tuned in.
491
00:22:00,820 --> 00:22:02,920
What was going to happen?
492
00:22:03,856 --> 00:22:07,156
I’ll never forget the
picture of him in handcuffs,
493
00:22:07,226 --> 00:22:09,326
I mean, looking
terribly distraught.
494
00:22:09,395 --> 00:22:12,405
[ Sobbing ] Why are you doing
all this to me?
495
00:22:12,464 --> 00:22:15,634
The federal prosecutors
spent two years laying out
496
00:22:15,701 --> 00:22:18,371
a really meticulous case
against Bakker,
497
00:22:18,437 --> 00:22:22,237
and, in the end, the trial
was a disaster for Jim.
498
00:22:22,308 --> 00:22:23,778
Today in Charlotte,
North Carolina,
499
00:22:23,843 --> 00:22:27,813
a judge sentenced Jim Bakker
to 45 years in prison
500
00:22:27,913 --> 00:22:29,553
and fined him $500,000
501
00:22:29,615 --> 00:22:31,685
for defrauding his
television congregation.
502
00:22:31,784 --> 00:22:33,154
♪
503
00:22:33,252 --> 00:22:36,092
Wigger: Bakker’s trial was
presided over by Robert Potter.
504
00:22:36,155 --> 00:22:37,525
He was a devout Catholic
505
00:22:37,623 --> 00:22:40,333
and not sympathetic
to Bakker’s style
506
00:22:40,392 --> 00:22:43,162
of religious shenanigans.
507
00:22:43,229 --> 00:22:44,759
At Bakker’s sentencing,
508
00:22:44,797 --> 00:22:47,597
Judge Potter actually
made a statement saying that
509
00:22:47,666 --> 00:22:51,996
he felt that Bakker had made
other sincerely religious people
510
00:22:52,071 --> 00:22:53,941
look like dupes and saps.
511
00:22:55,007 --> 00:22:57,737
Cheney: Everything
that he had worked for,
512
00:22:57,843 --> 00:23:00,713
everything that he had
devoted his life to was gone.
513
00:23:00,746 --> 00:23:04,946
Spending 45 years, really
the rest of his life, in prison,
514
00:23:05,017 --> 00:23:06,587
it’s akin to a death sentence.
515
00:23:06,685 --> 00:23:08,445
We will appeal.
516
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,720
There is a court
that we can go to
517
00:23:11,790 --> 00:23:13,590
where I think we’ll get justice.
518
00:23:13,692 --> 00:23:17,002
Bakker had two appeals and
they used Potter’s statements
519
00:23:17,029 --> 00:23:20,129
to basically say that Bakker
had been unfairly sentenced
520
00:23:20,199 --> 00:23:21,929
because of his
religious beliefs.
521
00:23:22,001 --> 00:23:25,341
Goldberg:
While Bakker’s conviction
was affirmed in the appeal,
522
00:23:25,404 --> 00:23:30,044
his 45-year sentence
was reduced to 8 years.
523
00:23:30,109 --> 00:23:34,079
And because of parole,
he only served five.
524
00:23:34,179 --> 00:23:38,979
They argue that judges
are supposed to be fair.
525
00:23:39,051 --> 00:23:42,091
They’re not supposed to be
personally involved
526
00:23:42,187 --> 00:23:44,517
when they mete out
these sentences.
527
00:23:44,590 --> 00:23:48,060
And this was an abuse
of discretion --
528
00:23:48,127 --> 00:23:51,157
enormous sentence --
and you got to let him out.
529
00:23:51,230 --> 00:23:53,630
And Jim Bakker was out
in five years.
530
00:23:53,732 --> 00:23:55,772
♪ Hallelujah, hallelujah ♪
531
00:23:55,834 --> 00:23:57,944
It’s not over till it’s over.
532
00:23:58,003 --> 00:24:00,613
I have a great faith
in the God I serve,
533
00:24:00,673 --> 00:24:02,873
and he promised
he will not let us down.
534
00:24:02,942 --> 00:24:06,312
Goldberg: No one knows for sure
why she was never charged,
535
00:24:06,345 --> 00:24:10,255
but prosecutors clearly did
not have eyes for Tammy Faye.
536
00:24:10,316 --> 00:24:12,676
She instead served
Jim with a divorce
537
00:24:12,751 --> 00:24:15,221
while he was
serving his sentence.
538
00:24:15,287 --> 00:24:19,687
She quickly remarried and
eventually passed away in 2007
539
00:24:19,792 --> 00:24:22,162
after a long battle with cancer.
540
00:24:22,261 --> 00:24:25,131
♪
541
00:24:25,230 --> 00:24:28,430
[ Bell tolls ]
542
00:24:28,500 --> 00:24:31,000
So, after Jim Bakker
is released from prison,
543
00:24:31,070 --> 00:24:34,840
he decides it’s a good idea to
do another television interview.
544
00:24:34,907 --> 00:24:38,007
He says, "I am retired
from TV Jesus."
545
00:24:38,077 --> 00:24:41,547
Jim: I don’t have the need
to be on television.
546
00:24:41,613 --> 00:24:45,483
I don’t have the need
to succeed at something big.
547
00:24:45,584 --> 00:24:48,524
Jim Bakker finally says
the prosperity gospel is wrong.
548
00:24:48,587 --> 00:24:51,657
Christ really had very little
good to say about money,
549
00:24:51,724 --> 00:24:54,364
and yet I was teaching people
how to get rich.
550
00:24:54,426 --> 00:24:57,126
And so as I began
to study in-depth,
551
00:24:57,196 --> 00:25:00,666
I realized that, uh,
I was wrong.
552
00:25:00,766 --> 00:25:03,536
Goldberg: Has Jim seen
the error of his ways?
553
00:25:03,602 --> 00:25:06,002
He comes out of retirement.
554
00:25:06,105 --> 00:25:11,845
♪
555
00:25:11,910 --> 00:25:13,610
Goldberg: Oh, yeah,
that’s really him.
556
00:25:13,679 --> 00:25:18,019
He looks different,
but his behavior feels familiar.
557
00:25:18,083 --> 00:25:21,253
I like to think about Jim Bakker
and his cons like the Bible.
558
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:25,090
The Bible is very thick,
and the pages are very thin.
559
00:25:25,190 --> 00:25:27,430
And there is a lot
of story there.
560
00:25:27,526 --> 00:25:29,156
And just like the Bible,
561
00:25:29,228 --> 00:25:31,158
Jim’s got some chapters
left in him.
562
00:25:31,263 --> 00:25:35,903
A friend of his gave him a loan
to upstart PTL again.
563
00:25:35,968 --> 00:25:38,568
So he started off preaching
in Branson, Missouri,
564
00:25:38,637 --> 00:25:42,267
and then shortly after
moved to Morningside
565
00:25:42,374 --> 00:25:43,644
in the Ozark Mountains.
566
00:25:43,709 --> 00:25:46,139
Wigger: Television
was really all Jim knew,
567
00:25:46,211 --> 00:25:49,411
and eventually, he launched
a television ministry
568
00:25:49,481 --> 00:25:52,051
that looks a lot like PTL.
569
00:25:52,117 --> 00:25:54,917
He said that he had
been called by God
570
00:25:54,987 --> 00:25:56,517
to become a preacher again.
571
00:25:56,588 --> 00:26:00,428
Enemies tried to destroy
our ministry, destroy every--
572
00:26:00,492 --> 00:26:02,862
And yet,
God brings us back.
573
00:26:02,928 --> 00:26:05,098
Probably the most impressive
feature about it
574
00:26:05,164 --> 00:26:08,434
is the 15-foot-tall
statue of Jesus
575
00:26:08,500 --> 00:26:10,670
that stands
in the center of everything,
576
00:26:10,769 --> 00:26:13,369
very close to where he does
his broadcast.
577
00:26:13,439 --> 00:26:15,409
I never had a doubt
that he’d be back.
578
00:26:15,474 --> 00:26:17,544
What do you do
when that’s what you do?
579
00:26:17,609 --> 00:26:21,249
You don’t become a brain surgeon
or a store clerk.
580
00:26:21,313 --> 00:26:25,083
You go back to what you know,
and that’s what he knows best.
581
00:26:25,184 --> 00:26:27,094
[ Applause ]
582
00:26:27,186 --> 00:26:31,486
Jim Bakker married
his current wife, Lori, in 1998.
583
00:26:31,523 --> 00:26:34,093
There is a similarity there
to Tammy Faye
584
00:26:34,193 --> 00:26:36,463
that’s just a little uncanny.
585
00:26:36,528 --> 00:26:40,528
Goldberg: In television,
we call this typecasting.
586
00:26:40,632 --> 00:26:42,972
Dowdy:
My name is Mark Dowdy.
587
00:26:43,035 --> 00:26:46,375
I was the band director
for "The Jim Bakker Show."
588
00:26:46,438 --> 00:26:48,138
I’m the most kick-ass
piano player
589
00:26:48,207 --> 00:26:49,637
you’ll ever meet in your life.
590
00:26:49,708 --> 00:26:52,538
Even after he got in trouble,
got out of jail,
591
00:26:52,611 --> 00:26:54,381
and had this second opportunity,
592
00:26:54,446 --> 00:26:57,276
the temptation of money, I
think, is just too much for him.
593
00:26:57,349 --> 00:27:01,489
Basically built a Heritage USA
Midwest. [ Laughs ]
594
00:27:01,553 --> 00:27:03,393
Dowdy: When he would
walk around the compound,
595
00:27:03,489 --> 00:27:06,089
he gives off a prophet feel,
596
00:27:06,158 --> 00:27:09,998
he gives off this
"I’ve been anointed" feel.
597
00:27:12,498 --> 00:27:15,428
Part of Christian broadcasting
is that, you know,
598
00:27:15,501 --> 00:27:17,101
you can’t have advertisers.
599
00:27:17,169 --> 00:27:20,209
You have to sell a product
or get a donation.
600
00:27:20,272 --> 00:27:22,972
[ Chuckles ] I guess
it’s like a QVC show.
601
00:27:23,041 --> 00:27:27,311
People are looking for
something more in their lives,
602
00:27:27,412 --> 00:27:29,352
and Jim has the talent
603
00:27:29,448 --> 00:27:32,348
to give them
just enough of that fairy dust
604
00:27:32,417 --> 00:27:33,817
where that they buy in
605
00:27:33,886 --> 00:27:37,086
and, some of them,
they buy in whole hog.
606
00:27:37,156 --> 00:27:39,316
There are just these
certain different tiers
607
00:27:39,391 --> 00:27:41,031
of donations
that you can make
608
00:27:41,126 --> 00:27:43,556
that you can
receive a gift for in return.
609
00:27:43,662 --> 00:27:45,602
Jim Bakker Home Shopping
Club Network --
610
00:27:45,697 --> 00:27:47,127
that’s what I would call it.
611
00:27:47,199 --> 00:27:52,369
The whole game plan is to sell,
sell, sell.
612
00:27:52,437 --> 00:27:53,637
Goldberg: Wait a minute.
613
00:27:53,705 --> 00:27:56,165
Didn’t he say
he was done with this?
614
00:27:56,275 --> 00:27:59,415
If he publicly dissed
the prosperity gospel,
615
00:27:59,511 --> 00:28:01,311
what is he peddling now?
616
00:28:01,413 --> 00:28:04,383
Dowdy: He talks over
and over and over
617
00:28:04,483 --> 00:28:06,483
about the end times.
618
00:28:06,585 --> 00:28:09,695
I saw the future,
and I know what’s coming,
619
00:28:09,788 --> 00:28:12,458
and we’re in the midst
of the end times.
620
00:28:12,558 --> 00:28:14,728
And all he’s doing
is selling fear.
621
00:28:14,826 --> 00:28:16,256
He was back at it.
622
00:28:16,361 --> 00:28:19,131
This time raising money
623
00:28:19,231 --> 00:28:21,701
by creating a doomsday theory
624
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,600
that the world was going
to have an apocalypse.
625
00:28:24,703 --> 00:28:26,043
♪
626
00:28:26,138 --> 00:28:29,068
Now he’s selling
end times protection.
627
00:28:30,209 --> 00:28:31,639
Ethridge:
It’s like a car salesman
628
00:28:31,743 --> 00:28:34,113
who just moved on
to a different model.
629
00:28:35,147 --> 00:28:38,547
Goldberg: Jim Bakker’s second
coming as an apocalypse preacher
630
00:28:38,650 --> 00:28:41,190
was perfectly timed to cash in
631
00:28:41,286 --> 00:28:44,886
on the chaos and fear
of a global pandemic.
632
00:28:44,990 --> 00:28:46,760
Walton: Early 2020,
when COVID first hit
633
00:28:46,858 --> 00:28:49,158
and we’re all, like,
sequestered at home,
634
00:28:49,261 --> 00:28:51,801
terrified about this virus
that’s spreading,
635
00:28:51,897 --> 00:28:54,627
and we were desperate
for any kind of reprieve,
636
00:28:54,733 --> 00:28:56,033
any kind of protection.
637
00:28:56,134 --> 00:28:58,304
Jim Bakker seizes on this.
638
00:28:58,403 --> 00:29:01,473
He’s figured out
the cure for COVID.
639
00:29:01,473 --> 00:29:13,253
Goldberg:
After making a living
640
00:29:13,352 --> 00:29:17,192
peddling post-apocalyptic
survivor products...
641
00:29:17,289 --> 00:29:19,719
Jim Bakker makes a sudden pivot
642
00:29:19,825 --> 00:29:23,465
to capitalize on the rising
COVID-19 pandemic.
643
00:29:24,796 --> 00:29:26,496
When the pandemic first began,
644
00:29:26,598 --> 00:29:28,668
none of us knew
what was going on.
645
00:29:28,767 --> 00:29:30,067
There was a lot of confusion
646
00:29:30,168 --> 00:29:32,398
as to what kept us safe
from the virus
647
00:29:32,504 --> 00:29:34,644
and what could actually
cure or treat us.
648
00:29:34,740 --> 00:29:36,740
And because of that confusion,
649
00:29:36,842 --> 00:29:39,382
Jim Bakker
was able to take advantage.
650
00:29:40,545 --> 00:29:44,145
Jim Bakker has never
been accused of being dumb.
651
00:29:44,216 --> 00:29:46,886
I believe when he sniffed
that there was
652
00:29:46,985 --> 00:29:49,745
a potential pandemic on the way,
653
00:29:49,821 --> 00:29:53,531
the only thing that Jim saw
were dollar signs in his eyes.
654
00:29:53,625 --> 00:29:55,185
[ Cash register dings ]
655
00:29:55,294 --> 00:29:57,704
So Jim decided
to enter the market
656
00:29:57,763 --> 00:29:59,503
with his own miracle cure.
657
00:30:00,799 --> 00:30:02,369
Jim:
You’re saying that
658
00:30:02,434 --> 00:30:04,974
Silver Solution
would be effective.
659
00:30:05,037 --> 00:30:06,667
Well, let’s say
it hasn’t been tested
660
00:30:06,738 --> 00:30:08,838
on this strain
of the coronavirus,
661
00:30:08,907 --> 00:30:12,637
but it’s been tested on other
strains of the coronavirus...
Yeah.
662
00:30:12,711 --> 00:30:16,651
...and has been able to
eliminate it within 12 hours.
663
00:30:16,715 --> 00:30:18,225
I love that they’re saying,
664
00:30:18,317 --> 00:30:20,987
"It hasn’t been tested
on this virus,
665
00:30:21,053 --> 00:30:25,223
but on the other viruses,
the virus’ cousins,
666
00:30:25,324 --> 00:30:27,734
it essentially will kill it
in 12 hours."
667
00:30:28,660 --> 00:30:30,400
That is patently false.
668
00:30:30,462 --> 00:30:32,362
Silver cannot cure COVID.
669
00:30:32,431 --> 00:30:35,271
If it’s too good to be true,
it usually is.
670
00:30:35,367 --> 00:30:38,197
My name is Lydia Kang.
671
00:30:38,270 --> 00:30:40,570
I am a doctor
of internal medicine.
672
00:30:40,639 --> 00:30:44,879
I have been in practice
for over 20 years now.
673
00:30:44,943 --> 00:30:47,453
We keep seeing snake oil
all over the place.
674
00:30:47,512 --> 00:30:51,122
And it’s because people
are still trying to make a buck
675
00:30:51,216 --> 00:30:55,246
off of people who are suffering
and have a lot of hope.
676
00:30:56,421 --> 00:31:00,361
This influenza that is now
circling the globe,
677
00:31:00,459 --> 00:31:02,989
Silver Solution
would be effective.
678
00:31:03,061 --> 00:31:06,131
So what we’re watching is
basically a telemarketing show.
679
00:31:08,233 --> 00:31:11,973
Any time someone is
touting a medical product
680
00:31:12,037 --> 00:31:14,137
and selling it at the same time,
681
00:31:14,206 --> 00:31:15,936
that’s a huge
conflict of interest,
682
00:31:16,041 --> 00:31:17,541
and it’s a gigantic red flag.
683
00:31:17,642 --> 00:31:19,512
But the public
doesn’t see it that way.
684
00:31:19,578 --> 00:31:21,708
They see a famous name,
and they see a product,
685
00:31:21,813 --> 00:31:22,983
and they see trust.
686
00:31:23,048 --> 00:31:24,478
So they just go for it.
687
00:31:24,549 --> 00:31:25,919
Goldberg: They’re going
through all this trouble
688
00:31:25,984 --> 00:31:28,894
to make it seem like
this is a medical miracle,
689
00:31:28,954 --> 00:31:30,424
but doesn’t it make you wonder
690
00:31:30,489 --> 00:31:32,489
what’s actually
in that blue bottle?
691
00:31:32,557 --> 00:31:34,687
[ Gasps ] Oh, my gosh.
692
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:39,130
This is colloidal
silver solution.
693
00:31:39,197 --> 00:31:41,727
It’s basically
tiny particles of silver
694
00:31:41,833 --> 00:31:43,643
suspended in a solution
that you drink.
695
00:31:43,702 --> 00:31:45,742
Let’s have a sip
of the Silver.
696
00:31:45,837 --> 00:31:47,367
Don’t do this at home.
697
00:31:49,441 --> 00:31:50,781
It just tastes like water.
698
00:31:50,842 --> 00:31:53,012
Mm-mm! Silver Solution.
699
00:31:53,111 --> 00:31:54,451
Put it in your mouth.
No, don’t.
700
00:31:54,546 --> 00:31:56,706
Walton:
They say on his show,
701
00:31:56,782 --> 00:31:58,522
it’s supposed to
not only kill COVID,
702
00:31:58,617 --> 00:31:59,917
it can kill AIDS,
703
00:32:00,018 --> 00:32:02,488
it can kill any kind of virus
or bacteria you got in you.
704
00:32:02,587 --> 00:32:04,857
Woman: It has been proven
705
00:32:04,956 --> 00:32:06,786
by the government
706
00:32:06,892 --> 00:32:08,992
that it has the ability
707
00:32:09,060 --> 00:32:13,100
to kill every pathogen
it has ever been tested on,
708
00:32:13,198 --> 00:32:16,028
including SARS and HIV.
709
00:32:16,134 --> 00:32:18,604
Kang: Obviously,
that’s not true.
710
00:32:18,670 --> 00:32:20,410
But there’s a little bit
of science behind this.
711
00:32:20,472 --> 00:32:24,342
You know, there are silver that
is used in wound care today.
712
00:32:24,409 --> 00:32:27,509
Every con,
especially the big ones,
713
00:32:27,612 --> 00:32:29,752
are based on a kernel of truth.
714
00:32:29,815 --> 00:32:33,385
Kang: Silver does have
antimicrobial effects,
715
00:32:33,452 --> 00:32:35,822
but just because it has
antimicrobial effects
716
00:32:35,887 --> 00:32:38,757
in a petri dish
or in very specific scenarios
717
00:32:38,824 --> 00:32:40,594
doesn’t mean that you can
drink gallons of this
718
00:32:40,659 --> 00:32:43,729
and assume it’s going to
just degerm your whole body.
719
00:32:43,795 --> 00:32:45,695
It just doesn’t work that way.
720
00:32:47,032 --> 00:32:50,072
It’s a really dangerous thought
to put into people’s minds
721
00:32:50,135 --> 00:32:51,675
that they might be able
to help themselves this way
722
00:32:51,736 --> 00:32:54,006
because it could actually
put them in danger.
723
00:32:54,105 --> 00:32:55,665
Silver is dangerous.
724
00:32:55,774 --> 00:32:58,114
Silver has major toxicities
725
00:32:58,210 --> 00:33:00,040
to the liver, the kidneys,
726
00:33:00,111 --> 00:33:01,381
and to the skin.
727
00:33:01,446 --> 00:33:03,506
Goldberg:
So the real question is,
728
00:33:03,582 --> 00:33:06,722
why are people still willing
to trust Jim Bakker
729
00:33:06,785 --> 00:33:09,555
after all of his
scandals and cons?
730
00:33:09,621 --> 00:33:11,921
Dowdy: These people
have been with him
731
00:33:12,023 --> 00:33:14,233
since the days of Heritage USA.
732
00:33:14,292 --> 00:33:19,102
They believe what comes out
of the mouth of Jim Bakker.
733
00:33:19,164 --> 00:33:21,204
And if Jim Bakker
tells these people
734
00:33:21,299 --> 00:33:24,069
Silver Solution can cure it,
735
00:33:24,169 --> 00:33:26,399
they’re gonna buy it.
736
00:33:26,471 --> 00:33:29,611
Goldberg: Unfortunately,
Jim’s emotional manipulation
737
00:33:29,674 --> 00:33:31,414
could leave his audience blue.
738
00:33:31,476 --> 00:33:34,306
I’m not talking about
the metaphorical sadness.
739
00:33:34,379 --> 00:33:38,949
This man’s medication cure
can literally turn people blue.
740
00:33:39,050 --> 00:33:41,790
Kang:
Argyria is a condition
741
00:33:41,887 --> 00:33:44,717
that is basically
a sign of silver toxicity.
742
00:33:44,789 --> 00:33:46,889
If you drink enough
colloidal silver,
743
00:33:46,958 --> 00:33:48,428
your skin can turn blue
744
00:33:48,493 --> 00:33:51,303
and, in many cases, if you drink
enough of it, it’s permanent.
745
00:33:51,363 --> 00:33:54,073
You’re sort of permanently blue
for the rest of your life.
746
00:33:54,132 --> 00:33:58,842
Goldberg: How did he make
$160,000 selling a fake cure?
747
00:33:58,904 --> 00:34:02,214
Mm. You won’t be surprised
by the answer.
748
00:34:02,307 --> 00:34:06,237
The guy’s good at getting people
to part with their money.
749
00:34:06,344 --> 00:34:09,214
He’s good at convincing them
750
00:34:09,314 --> 00:34:13,684
that mysterious things
are good for them.
751
00:34:13,785 --> 00:34:15,385
When a huge global
pandemic hits,
752
00:34:15,487 --> 00:34:18,257
that essentially
fits right in line
753
00:34:18,356 --> 00:34:20,626
with the end times
and the tribulation
754
00:34:20,725 --> 00:34:23,625
that he and other prophets
are talking about.
755
00:34:24,696 --> 00:34:28,766
Once again, he is taking
advantage of people
756
00:34:28,867 --> 00:34:30,637
that are panicked,
757
00:34:30,735 --> 00:34:33,365
people that are afraid
during a pandemic,
758
00:34:33,471 --> 00:34:36,971
and he’s again
abusing their trust
759
00:34:37,075 --> 00:34:43,105
that they have placed in him
and hiding again behind God.
760
00:34:43,214 --> 00:34:45,854
This is his schtick.
This is how he makes money.
761
00:34:45,951 --> 00:34:47,921
And unfortunately,
762
00:34:48,019 --> 00:34:50,989
there are probably
blue people out there today
763
00:34:51,089 --> 00:34:53,519
that bought into it.
764
00:34:55,260 --> 00:34:58,830
Cheney: Rightfully,
the reaction from the government
765
00:34:58,930 --> 00:35:03,100
and from rational people
was just one of outrage
766
00:35:03,201 --> 00:35:05,701
and the need
to shut him down completely.
767
00:35:05,804 --> 00:35:09,040
Goldberg: Is Bakker finally
nearing his end times?
768
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:21,450
Jim:
God showed me this COVID-19.
769
00:35:21,553 --> 00:35:22,753
Goldberg: Jim Bakker is back
770
00:35:22,854 --> 00:35:25,124
and preaching
about a phony COVID cure
771
00:35:25,223 --> 00:35:27,433
that might turn your skin blue.
772
00:35:27,525 --> 00:35:29,925
That will draw
the attention of the law.
773
00:35:30,028 --> 00:35:32,958
Even if you say,
"God made me do it."
774
00:35:34,899 --> 00:35:37,639
Ruthledge: I describe myself
as a Christian, pro-life,
775
00:35:37,736 --> 00:35:40,096
gun-carrying,
conservative mama.
776
00:35:40,205 --> 00:35:42,545
You cannot lie.
You cannot deceive people.
777
00:35:42,641 --> 00:35:45,811
And when you do,
I will come after you.
778
00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:48,980
I’m Arkansas Attorney General
Leslie Ruthledge.
779
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,320
As a child, I remember hearing
about Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker.
780
00:35:52,417 --> 00:35:53,947
[ Camera shutter clicks ]
781
00:35:54,019 --> 00:35:56,749
If you had told me then
I would be going after
782
00:35:56,821 --> 00:35:59,191
the infamous Jim Bakker
as Attorney General,
783
00:35:59,257 --> 00:36:00,927
I would have laughed at you.
784
00:36:02,193 --> 00:36:04,963
We look at facts,
and the facts were very clear
785
00:36:05,030 --> 00:36:09,100
when we saw the advertisements
that Jim Bakker was airing.
786
00:36:10,602 --> 00:36:13,302
This is a liquid with little
tiny silver pieces in it
787
00:36:13,371 --> 00:36:15,141
that people would drink.
788
00:36:15,206 --> 00:36:17,276
And he brought on this
alleged doctor
789
00:36:17,375 --> 00:36:18,775
to peddle these products,
790
00:36:18,843 --> 00:36:20,753
to talk about
the effectiveness of it.
791
00:36:20,845 --> 00:36:23,745
Would you recommend,
as a doctor,
792
00:36:23,815 --> 00:36:26,655
people to have silver
in their house for a pandemic?
You never want to be --
793
00:36:26,718 --> 00:36:28,488
You never want to be
without silver.
794
00:36:28,553 --> 00:36:29,853
Ruthledge: She had
no doctorate degree.
795
00:36:29,921 --> 00:36:31,961
She is not recognized
as a physician,
796
00:36:32,023 --> 00:36:35,463
and he kept referring to her
as "Well, Doctor -- Doctor."
797
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,900
And said, you know,
"Is this a cure?"
798
00:36:37,962 --> 00:36:40,202
And she said, "This is safe
to give to anyone."
799
00:36:40,265 --> 00:36:42,975
There was no truth, whatsoever,
that it was effective,
800
00:36:43,068 --> 00:36:45,198
and, quite honestly,
it’s quite dangerous.
801
00:36:45,270 --> 00:36:48,370
And unfortunately,
many Arkansans fell prey to it.
802
00:36:48,473 --> 00:36:51,283
♪
803
00:36:51,342 --> 00:36:53,642
Under the Arkansas
Deceptive Trade Practices,
804
00:36:53,712 --> 00:36:56,182
he essentially made a false
claim that something would
805
00:36:56,247 --> 00:36:59,747
cure and stop a disease
when, in fact, it could not.
806
00:36:59,818 --> 00:37:02,518
And he brought someone on,
this alleged doctor.
807
00:37:02,587 --> 00:37:04,317
We don’t know where
she got her evidence
808
00:37:04,389 --> 00:37:06,189
because there is no evidence.
809
00:37:06,257 --> 00:37:09,887
And there is no doctoral degree
in front of or behind her name.
810
00:37:09,994 --> 00:37:12,004
Goldberg:
But that did not stop Jim
811
00:37:12,097 --> 00:37:15,297
from using this non-doctor
to hock medicine
812
00:37:15,366 --> 00:37:17,896
for his own personal enrichment.
813
00:37:18,002 --> 00:37:22,272
The time had come for Jim Bakker
to face, yet again,
814
00:37:22,373 --> 00:37:24,683
another day of reckoning.
815
00:37:24,743 --> 00:37:26,783
Ruthledge: We filed
a complaint against Bakker
816
00:37:26,878 --> 00:37:28,508
and Morningside Ministries
817
00:37:28,613 --> 00:37:31,753
to stop them from
peddling this colloidal silver,
818
00:37:31,816 --> 00:37:34,386
and we were able
to get that injunction.
819
00:37:34,486 --> 00:37:37,286
Sadly, Bakker
and Morningside Ministries
820
00:37:37,388 --> 00:37:39,558
filed suit against me
as the Attorney General
821
00:37:39,624 --> 00:37:41,964
claiming I was violating
their First Amendment rights.
822
00:37:42,026 --> 00:37:43,996
Goldberg:
So, listen to this --
823
00:37:44,062 --> 00:37:48,272
Bakker claims in court that
anyone who watched his show,
824
00:37:48,333 --> 00:37:51,473
even by accident,
just for a second,
825
00:37:51,536 --> 00:37:53,536
was a member of his church.
826
00:37:53,638 --> 00:37:54,968
Come on, Jim!
827
00:37:55,073 --> 00:37:56,243
Come on!
828
00:37:56,341 --> 00:38:00,341
He goes back
to the same con which is,
829
00:38:00,445 --> 00:38:02,815
"My religion shields me."
830
00:38:02,914 --> 00:38:04,754
Goldberg: Therefore,
any government action
831
00:38:04,849 --> 00:38:09,019
to stop him from selling
his bogus silver solution
832
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:13,620
as a COVID cure was a violation
of his religious freedom.
833
00:38:13,725 --> 00:38:15,195
Well, that’s just nonsense.
834
00:38:16,261 --> 00:38:19,601
I am deep in my faith,
and I will not tolerate
835
00:38:19,697 --> 00:38:21,197
someone such as Jim Bakker
836
00:38:21,266 --> 00:38:23,296
using his church
and using the pulpit
837
00:38:23,368 --> 00:38:25,968
to take advantage
of those folks.
838
00:38:26,037 --> 00:38:29,237
Hostin: He’s, again,
abusing their trust
839
00:38:29,340 --> 00:38:33,980
that they have placed in him
and hiding, again, behind God.
840
00:38:34,045 --> 00:38:38,245
It is so offensive,
but this is how he makes money.
841
00:38:40,318 --> 00:38:42,848
He wanted his members
to believe that he was a victim,
842
00:38:42,954 --> 00:38:44,764
and that they
were being victimized
843
00:38:44,856 --> 00:38:47,216
by government encroaching
into their religious liberty.
844
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,930
He knew that he had
taken advantage of people.
845
00:38:52,030 --> 00:38:53,830
Jim Bakker
and Morningside Ministries
846
00:38:53,932 --> 00:38:56,832
agreed to reimburse
and to pay restitution
847
00:38:56,935 --> 00:38:58,845
in the amount of $60,000
848
00:38:58,937 --> 00:39:02,107
or a little bit over
to those 385 Arkansans
849
00:39:02,207 --> 00:39:03,607
to give them their money back,
850
00:39:03,708 --> 00:39:07,508
to pay the $190,000
in civil penalties
851
00:39:07,612 --> 00:39:08,752
to the State of Arkansas,
852
00:39:08,847 --> 00:39:11,317
as well as $10,000
in legal fees.
853
00:39:11,416 --> 00:39:15,116
Goldberg: And it wasn’t just
Arkansas and Missouri.
854
00:39:15,220 --> 00:39:18,590
California and New York
were among the many states
855
00:39:18,690 --> 00:39:20,890
that took action against Bakker.
856
00:39:20,992 --> 00:39:23,932
In the settlement,
Bakker and his ministry team
857
00:39:24,028 --> 00:39:26,798
continued to deny
any wrongdoing,
858
00:39:26,898 --> 00:39:29,868
but nevertheless,
he paid the penalties
859
00:39:29,968 --> 00:39:33,738
and agreed to stop selling
colloidal silver.
860
00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:37,140
Ruthledge: They can call it
whatever they want to.
861
00:39:37,242 --> 00:39:39,282
Jim Bakker was simply
using the pulpit
862
00:39:39,377 --> 00:39:42,407
and the trust that he had
of his church members
863
00:39:42,513 --> 00:39:44,323
in order to make profit.
864
00:39:44,415 --> 00:39:47,415
Hostin: Prison
certainly changes some.
865
00:39:47,518 --> 00:39:50,718
I don’t think prison changed
Jim Bakker at all.
866
00:39:50,822 --> 00:39:53,922
Goldberg: Jim Bakker spent
five years in jail,
867
00:39:54,025 --> 00:39:57,435
but he also spent
four decades on television.
868
00:39:57,528 --> 00:39:59,528
So has Jim Bakker changed,
869
00:39:59,631 --> 00:40:01,931
or is it just
another lazy reboot
870
00:40:02,033 --> 00:40:05,773
trying to squeeze every
last dollar out of his fans?
871
00:40:05,870 --> 00:40:10,270
Jim Bakker was probably
one of the greatest con men
872
00:40:10,375 --> 00:40:12,285
that ever has lived.
873
00:40:12,377 --> 00:40:16,147
When you look at the size
of the take,
874
00:40:16,247 --> 00:40:17,717
it was in the millions.
875
00:40:17,815 --> 00:40:20,445
I wake up every morning
876
00:40:20,551 --> 00:40:23,191
with the thought
of what happened here.
877
00:40:23,288 --> 00:40:27,258
And I think about
the errors that we committed
878
00:40:27,358 --> 00:40:29,028
and what we let
get away from us.
879
00:40:29,127 --> 00:40:31,697
It’s a hard burden to carry,
and I’ve had people,
880
00:40:31,796 --> 00:40:34,396
"Well, you just need to get
over it and move on."
881
00:40:34,499 --> 00:40:37,069
No, I don’t ever want
to get over it and move on.
882
00:40:37,168 --> 00:40:41,908
I want to remember because
I’ve tried to be a better human
883
00:40:42,006 --> 00:40:44,376
than I was, you know,
back in those days.
884
00:40:44,475 --> 00:40:47,975
♪
885
00:40:48,079 --> 00:40:51,279
Jim Bakker
is a snake-oil salesman --
886
00:40:51,382 --> 00:40:55,492
whether that’s Silver Solution
or fake timeshares.
887
00:40:55,586 --> 00:41:01,626
Jim Bakker is a con artist
for the ages,
888
00:41:01,726 --> 00:41:05,056
and the worst kind
of con artist
889
00:41:05,163 --> 00:41:09,973
because he is trying
to hide behind
890
00:41:10,068 --> 00:41:13,298
the shield of religion and God.
891
00:41:15,673 --> 00:41:18,013
The worst kind of con artist.
892
00:41:18,109 --> 00:41:21,609
♪