1 00:00:02,123 --> 00:00:05,043 DISCO MUSIC PLAYS 2 00:00:19,123 --> 00:00:23,123 I'm an Iraqi, I was born and raised in Iraq. 3 00:00:23,123 --> 00:00:26,643 It is a big-time culture shock. 4 00:00:26,643 --> 00:00:28,923 Different lifestyle. 5 00:00:30,003 --> 00:00:31,803 Completely different lifestyle. 6 00:00:34,323 --> 00:00:37,883 Life in America, man, it just...it's beautiful. 7 00:00:42,643 --> 00:00:45,563 When they started the war, 2003, 8 00:00:45,563 --> 00:00:50,883 they want people to be a translator with the special forces. 9 00:00:50,883 --> 00:00:53,883 I was like, "I'm in." 10 00:00:55,003 --> 00:00:56,923 We go kick doors, 11 00:00:56,923 --> 00:00:59,683 looking for anything that lead us 12 00:00:59,683 --> 00:01:02,643 to the capture of Saddam. 13 00:01:04,843 --> 00:01:07,163 I hated him, I hated the regime. 14 00:01:08,843 --> 00:01:11,403 This man destroyed the country. 15 00:01:11,403 --> 00:01:14,563 This man hurt me and hurt my family. 16 00:01:17,643 --> 00:01:20,403 A lot of people ask me, like, "How come you?" 17 00:01:20,403 --> 00:01:23,283 "How come you the one?" 18 00:01:23,283 --> 00:01:26,003 I just...was there in the right time 19 00:01:26,003 --> 00:01:28,403 with the right people in the right place. 20 00:01:29,643 --> 00:01:32,763 In this series, the story of the Iraq War 21 00:01:32,763 --> 00:01:36,123 is told by civilians, journalists and soldiers... 22 00:01:37,283 --> 00:01:40,163 ..who lived through the 2003 invasion 23 00:01:40,163 --> 00:01:43,563 and the years of chaos that continue to this day. 24 00:01:45,403 --> 00:01:47,283 We set up the perfect conditions, 25 00:01:47,283 --> 00:01:49,963 it's the perfect storm for an insurgency. 26 00:01:51,523 --> 00:01:54,083 The invasion basically radicalised the whole society. 27 00:01:54,083 --> 00:01:56,923 It forced people to religious extremes. 28 00:01:56,923 --> 00:01:59,403 That, to me, was always one of the great ironies. 29 00:02:01,603 --> 00:02:05,123 TRANSLATION: 30 00:02:33,523 --> 00:02:34,843 How are you doing? 31 00:02:34,843 --> 00:02:40,843 This one, we're asking 2,500 down and total price 6,900. 32 00:02:40,843 --> 00:02:43,363 Samir grew up in southern Iraq, 33 00:02:43,363 --> 00:02:46,803 but he was forced to leave when he was 22 years old, 34 00:02:46,803 --> 00:02:49,283 because he'd taken part in a huge uprising 35 00:02:49,283 --> 00:02:52,003 by Shia Muslims against the regime. 36 00:02:52,003 --> 00:02:55,043 CHANTING 37 00:02:55,043 --> 00:02:56,483 The rebellion ended 38 00:02:56,483 --> 00:02:57,923 when Saddam used his army 39 00:02:57,923 --> 00:03:00,963 to massacre over 80,000 of his own people. 40 00:03:02,563 --> 00:03:05,563 And hundreds of thousands more had to flee their homes. 41 00:03:13,843 --> 00:03:16,003 This is in Nasiriyah, my city. 42 00:03:19,123 --> 00:03:21,523 That's the reason we left, quick. 43 00:03:23,283 --> 00:03:26,563 You rather to die than get captured by these guys. 44 00:03:29,643 --> 00:03:31,723 I have a lot of friends that are missing. 45 00:03:33,163 --> 00:03:35,443 They didn't find their bodies. 46 00:03:36,723 --> 00:03:40,043 ECHOING GUNFIRE, SHOUTING 47 00:03:47,683 --> 00:03:48,883 Hmm. 48 00:03:52,123 --> 00:03:53,723 HE SIGHS HEAVILY 49 00:03:53,723 --> 00:03:57,163 Sometimes it feels like yesterday it happened, you know, just... 50 00:03:59,923 --> 00:04:01,123 Yeah. 51 00:04:09,723 --> 00:04:13,203 We were hoping one day a miracle was going to happen 52 00:04:13,203 --> 00:04:16,203 that take Saddam away from power. 53 00:04:16,203 --> 00:04:20,003 And I just want to be part of the operation, 54 00:04:20,003 --> 00:04:23,643 to go and fight, to help free my own people. 55 00:04:25,323 --> 00:04:27,243 I just want... 56 00:04:29,283 --> 00:04:30,763 ..revenge. 57 00:04:35,643 --> 00:04:38,683 Here, I'm going to show you this appreciation letter 58 00:04:38,683 --> 00:04:40,443 that I got from the military. 59 00:04:41,523 --> 00:04:46,563 This is back in 2004, I met President Bush. 60 00:04:46,563 --> 00:04:49,083 People, when they see these pictures, 61 00:04:49,083 --> 00:04:50,883 they get so excited. 62 00:04:50,883 --> 00:04:53,363 They always like to... 63 00:04:53,363 --> 00:04:55,043 ..hear the story. 64 00:04:57,403 --> 00:04:58,803 They like what I did. 65 00:05:07,323 --> 00:05:10,123 I wanted to be part of history in some way, 66 00:05:10,123 --> 00:05:15,523 and I thought that working at the CIA would, uh, enable me to do that. 67 00:05:15,523 --> 00:05:17,523 A-And I was right. 68 00:05:17,523 --> 00:05:20,603 John Nixon was a senior analyst for the CIA 69 00:05:20,603 --> 00:05:22,443 during the Bush administration. 70 00:05:22,443 --> 00:05:25,003 He'd studied Saddam for years 71 00:05:25,003 --> 00:05:28,163 and volunteered to go to Iraq soon after the war began. 72 00:05:31,523 --> 00:05:33,363 In your own time, John. 73 00:05:33,363 --> 00:05:34,883 Oh, I'm sorry, oh! 74 00:05:34,883 --> 00:05:37,603 I thought you were mulling over what you were going to say. Oh, no. 75 00:05:37,603 --> 00:05:41,283 From my experience working as a CIA analyst, 76 00:05:41,283 --> 00:05:42,803 I've come to the conclusion 77 00:05:42,803 --> 00:05:46,323 that all the best analysts have a bit of the obsessive in them. 78 00:05:46,323 --> 00:05:48,723 MUSIC: Friend Of The Devil by The Grateful Dead 79 00:05:48,723 --> 00:05:52,043 This is Apollo-Saturn launch control. 80 00:05:52,043 --> 00:05:56,323 When I was young, I became fascinated by space exploration. 81 00:05:56,323 --> 00:05:58,963 I knew all the names, I knew all the dates. 82 00:05:58,963 --> 00:06:00,483 I even knew the Russian missions. 83 00:06:00,483 --> 00:06:02,163 I wanted to be an astronaut. 84 00:06:02,163 --> 00:06:04,523 It's very pretty out here! 85 00:06:04,523 --> 00:06:06,883 After astronauts, it then became sporting teams, 86 00:06:06,883 --> 00:06:09,323 like hockey and baseball and football. 87 00:06:10,403 --> 00:06:13,163 And then after that, I became kind of obsessed 88 00:06:13,163 --> 00:06:16,123 with popular music, like the Grateful Dead. 89 00:06:19,483 --> 00:06:22,683 And then, when Saddam invaded Kuwait... 90 00:06:23,883 --> 00:06:26,043 ..I had kind of an obsession with him. 91 00:06:26,043 --> 00:06:29,043 Colourful stories about his family. 92 00:06:29,043 --> 00:06:33,363 There are all sorts of petty jealousies and hatreds. 93 00:06:34,603 --> 00:06:36,683 It's like The Simpsons with guns. 94 00:06:36,683 --> 00:06:38,883 # A friend of the devil is a friend of mine 95 00:06:38,883 --> 00:06:40,803 # If I get home before daylight 96 00:06:40,803 --> 00:06:43,363 # I just might get some sleep tonight... # 97 00:06:43,363 --> 00:06:47,003 He was such a big part of my life. 98 00:06:47,003 --> 00:06:51,763 We would spend hours every day talking about what he was up to - 99 00:06:51,763 --> 00:06:54,283 for years and years and years. 100 00:06:54,283 --> 00:06:56,843 He was becoming my new Neil Armstrong, you know? 101 00:06:58,843 --> 00:07:01,203 We used to watch videotape of him all the time. 102 00:07:02,563 --> 00:07:04,323 Oh, this is a GREAT clip! 103 00:07:13,123 --> 00:07:15,523 One of the turning points in his rule 104 00:07:15,523 --> 00:07:17,843 is the famous Ba'ath Party conference. 105 00:07:19,963 --> 00:07:22,923 He basically assumes the presidency, 106 00:07:22,923 --> 00:07:26,283 and there are a lot of people who don't like that, 107 00:07:26,283 --> 00:07:30,403 and so he held this party conference to kind of get everybody in one room 108 00:07:30,403 --> 00:07:33,323 under the pretext of having a very important statement. 109 00:07:35,283 --> 00:07:38,963 He says, "There's been a plot," and he starts reading out 110 00:07:38,963 --> 00:07:42,203 names of people he deems disloyal. 111 00:07:42,203 --> 00:07:44,923 And, suddenly, everybody gets very nervous. 112 00:07:48,843 --> 00:07:52,003 TRANSLATION: 113 00:07:55,163 --> 00:07:57,403 APPLAUSE 114 00:08:00,643 --> 00:08:03,043 And at one point he even gets to a name, 115 00:08:03,043 --> 00:08:05,203 and he says, "Mohammed..." 116 00:08:06,523 --> 00:08:08,923 And then he pauses, and he says, "No, no," 117 00:08:08,923 --> 00:08:11,803 and he crosses that out, so everybody in the auditorium 118 00:08:11,803 --> 00:08:14,723 who's named Mohammed is like, "Oh, thank God!" You know? 119 00:08:14,723 --> 00:08:17,283 But he subsequently has these people arrested, 120 00:08:17,283 --> 00:08:18,963 imprisoned and then executed. 121 00:08:20,043 --> 00:08:22,843 It's political theatre, and that wasn't lost on him. 122 00:08:26,203 --> 00:08:28,443 He sees a name, and he wipes tears away. 123 00:08:29,763 --> 00:08:31,723 He's showing that he is doing this 124 00:08:31,723 --> 00:08:34,403 not because he's bloodthirsty or ruthless, 125 00:08:34,403 --> 00:08:37,003 but he has to do this for the good of the country. 126 00:08:42,963 --> 00:08:47,363 I mean, he was making a point, that "I have the power now, 127 00:08:47,363 --> 00:08:50,483 "and you're all going to sit here until I let you go. 128 00:08:50,483 --> 00:08:52,643 "And some of you are not going to survive, 129 00:08:52,643 --> 00:08:55,163 "and it's me making that decision." 130 00:08:58,643 --> 00:09:00,243 And I have to be honest with you, 131 00:09:00,243 --> 00:09:03,723 I thought that maybe if we do remove him from power, 132 00:09:03,723 --> 00:09:08,723 we can create a better situation for Iraqis and we can help them. 133 00:09:08,723 --> 00:09:10,763 And, you know, I look back 134 00:09:10,763 --> 00:09:14,763 on those ideas that I had, and I think they're incredibly naive. 135 00:09:14,763 --> 00:09:20,483 But, at the time, I supported what George Bush was doing. 136 00:09:20,483 --> 00:09:23,963 I still had hopes that we could turn this thing around, 137 00:09:23,963 --> 00:09:27,563 and catching Saddam was a very important part of that hope. 138 00:09:29,163 --> 00:09:31,083 We acted quickly on the intelligence, 139 00:09:31,083 --> 00:09:34,803 but it looks like we probably missed him by about 24 hours. 140 00:09:36,043 --> 00:09:39,203 We were getting a lot of pressure from Washington 141 00:09:39,203 --> 00:09:40,923 to find Saddam Hussein. 142 00:09:42,043 --> 00:09:44,403 And hundreds of people are involved in this. 143 00:09:45,883 --> 00:09:47,643 But it was just very difficult, 144 00:09:47,643 --> 00:09:51,163 because the Iraqis know that the CIA is in Baghdad, 145 00:09:51,163 --> 00:09:54,883 and they also know that they're paying money for information. 146 00:09:54,883 --> 00:09:58,123 I am today announcing a $25 million reward 147 00:09:58,123 --> 00:10:01,003 for information leading to the capture of Saddam Hussein. 148 00:10:02,123 --> 00:10:05,563 And so there's a lot of reporting coming in, and most of it's... 149 00:10:05,563 --> 00:10:07,243 most of it's garbage. 150 00:10:08,683 --> 00:10:11,003 The one that I always thought was the funniest 151 00:10:11,003 --> 00:10:14,443 was that he was dressed as a woman and hiding in a Baghdad bus station. 152 00:10:23,243 --> 00:10:24,923 It's the hardest place 153 00:10:24,923 --> 00:10:26,043 I've ever tried to cover 154 00:10:26,043 --> 00:10:28,243 as a journalist, because it was so complicated. 155 00:10:29,363 --> 00:10:31,443 It was changing so fast. 156 00:10:32,963 --> 00:10:34,563 But I thought, 157 00:10:34,563 --> 00:10:36,323 partly for that reason, 158 00:10:36,323 --> 00:10:40,363 because it was a place that was constantly changing, 159 00:10:40,363 --> 00:10:41,723 that... 160 00:10:42,723 --> 00:10:45,683 ..the thing could work. I felt that way for a long time. 161 00:10:47,163 --> 00:10:49,763 Dexter Filkins covered the Iraq War 162 00:10:49,763 --> 00:10:53,803 for the New York Times from 2003 until 2010. 163 00:10:53,803 --> 00:10:56,763 HELICOPTER OVERHEAD 164 00:10:58,523 --> 00:11:00,643 You may NEED that helicopter sound! 165 00:11:03,403 --> 00:11:06,283 HELICOPTER APPROACHES 166 00:11:08,403 --> 00:11:11,483 CAR ALARM BLARES 167 00:11:16,403 --> 00:11:19,003 There was this whole theory at the time 168 00:11:19,003 --> 00:11:21,763 that Saddam had always planned it this way. 169 00:11:23,923 --> 00:11:26,843 That he knew that his army would not be able to resist the Americans, 170 00:11:26,843 --> 00:11:31,643 and so he had essentially... planned for a guerrilla campaign. 171 00:11:33,963 --> 00:11:37,723 And...that he is, in fact, actually, 172 00:11:37,723 --> 00:11:41,203 not just the inspiration for the insurgency, 173 00:11:41,203 --> 00:11:42,723 but he's actually running it. 174 00:11:42,723 --> 00:11:46,603 And so the idea was, if we could capture Saddam, 175 00:11:46,603 --> 00:11:48,803 then the insurgency would die. 176 00:11:56,803 --> 00:12:00,163 ARCHIVE: US soldiers taking part in another predawn raid. 177 00:12:00,163 --> 00:12:02,803 Their target - one of Saddam Hussein's bodyguards, 178 00:12:02,803 --> 00:12:06,283 a man the US hopes could lead them to Saddam himself. 179 00:12:06,283 --> 00:12:09,123 We killed his son in a firefight 180 00:12:09,123 --> 00:12:11,043 right down here and around the corner. 181 00:12:11,043 --> 00:12:14,763 They had launched RPGs - they were heavily armed. 182 00:12:18,963 --> 00:12:21,003 We raided so many places. 183 00:12:21,003 --> 00:12:24,403 Every time we get there, it's going to be a little bit late. 184 00:12:24,403 --> 00:12:26,563 These guys are moving around. 185 00:12:26,563 --> 00:12:29,963 We bring people in, they give us more information, 186 00:12:29,963 --> 00:12:31,883 and we move to the next. 187 00:12:34,803 --> 00:12:37,523 Ultimately, special forces were looking for a guy 188 00:12:37,523 --> 00:12:39,483 named Mohammed Ibrahim Omar al-Muslit. 189 00:12:40,563 --> 00:12:43,283 He was the chief bodyguard protecting Saddam. 190 00:12:45,003 --> 00:12:49,883 This is the bodyguard, he's supposed to know where Saddam is. 191 00:12:49,883 --> 00:12:53,363 The forces, at this moment, they're raiding the farm, 192 00:12:53,363 --> 00:12:55,603 they're breaking doors, kicking doors. 193 00:12:55,603 --> 00:12:59,203 All that screaming, guys screaming, yelling, all that. 194 00:12:59,203 --> 00:13:02,523 They searched the farm - nothing. 195 00:13:05,403 --> 00:13:08,563 I was like, "Mohammed, right now, where is Saddam?" 196 00:13:08,563 --> 00:13:11,043 He was like, "It's OK, it's OK, he's inside the bunker." 197 00:13:11,043 --> 00:13:13,043 I was like, "Where is the bunker?" 198 00:13:13,043 --> 00:13:16,283 He's like, "The bunker you guys stand on." 199 00:13:16,283 --> 00:13:19,163 We start looking, it was like, "Really?" 200 00:13:19,163 --> 00:13:21,043 "How do you get to the bunker?" 201 00:13:21,043 --> 00:13:24,283 And he started doing this with his feet. 202 00:13:24,283 --> 00:13:26,203 Then he just... 203 00:13:26,203 --> 00:13:27,963 He was like, "You got a shovel?" 204 00:13:31,483 --> 00:13:33,243 Wow! 205 00:13:33,243 --> 00:13:36,643 We didn't know it was a bunker, because it is hard to see it. 206 00:13:36,643 --> 00:13:38,203 It was covered with dirt. 207 00:13:38,203 --> 00:13:40,483 It looks like a sewer. 208 00:13:40,483 --> 00:13:43,643 I saw a hand coming out of that hole. 209 00:13:44,883 --> 00:13:48,203 And we all pulled him out and... 210 00:13:49,283 --> 00:13:51,043 ..when we pulled this man... 211 00:13:52,603 --> 00:13:54,683 ..it was like, "It's an old man." 212 00:13:56,003 --> 00:13:57,643 And then I was like... 213 00:13:58,883 --> 00:14:00,763 "It's him!" 214 00:14:03,163 --> 00:14:05,283 Ladies and gentlemen, 215 00:14:05,283 --> 00:14:07,003 we got him. 216 00:14:07,003 --> 00:14:08,883 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 217 00:14:14,643 --> 00:14:18,563 Iraq's future has never been more full of hope. 218 00:14:20,403 --> 00:14:24,763 There is a new opportunity for the members of the former regime 219 00:14:24,763 --> 00:14:26,923 to end their bitter opposition. 220 00:14:32,363 --> 00:14:34,243 What we will see next 221 00:14:34,243 --> 00:14:38,523 is a picture of Saddam Hussein at the time he was captured. 222 00:14:38,523 --> 00:14:40,683 ARCHIVE: Nobody expected to see Saddam Hussein 223 00:14:40,683 --> 00:14:43,563 so battered, so broken, so humiliated. 224 00:14:43,563 --> 00:14:46,883 He looks a little beat up there. 225 00:14:43,563 --> 00:14:46,883 SAMIR CHUCKLES 226 00:14:46,883 --> 00:14:50,043 He started calling me a traitor and a spy, 227 00:14:50,043 --> 00:14:52,003 and I started punching him in the face. 228 00:14:53,363 --> 00:14:55,483 It felt so good. 229 00:14:55,483 --> 00:14:58,083 And then he tried to bit my hand. 230 00:14:58,083 --> 00:14:59,723 He was going to bite me. 231 00:15:00,923 --> 00:15:06,883 So I grabbed from his beard, shaked him like crazy, hard as I could. 232 00:15:06,883 --> 00:15:11,123 "You coward, you are nothing, you're a pussy. 233 00:15:11,123 --> 00:15:15,203 "I'm going to kill you today. You're going to be my bitch today." 234 00:15:15,203 --> 00:15:17,923 He did not like that at all! 235 00:15:17,923 --> 00:15:24,003 I told him about who I am, told him about I was part of the uprising, 236 00:15:24,003 --> 00:15:27,403 and I started kicking him, kicking and kicking... 237 00:15:28,683 --> 00:15:32,563 Like let me take my chance, let me take my revenge. 238 00:15:32,563 --> 00:15:35,563 And then, finally, my boss came and said, 239 00:15:35,563 --> 00:15:37,643 "Enough, you can't do this any more." 240 00:15:37,643 --> 00:15:40,123 I was like, you know, "Please, please, please." 241 00:15:40,123 --> 00:15:43,323 And he said, "No, Samir, you can't do that." 242 00:15:44,323 --> 00:15:45,523 Boom! 243 00:15:48,683 --> 00:15:49,723 Yeah. 244 00:15:52,523 --> 00:15:55,803 BBC NEWS THEME TUNE 245 00:15:58,203 --> 00:16:00,963 Well, within the last hour, President Bush has said 246 00:16:00,963 --> 00:16:04,603 Saddam would see the justice he had denied millions. 247 00:16:04,603 --> 00:16:06,443 Good afternoon. 248 00:16:06,443 --> 00:16:08,843 I have a message for the Iraqi people. 249 00:16:08,843 --> 00:16:12,683 The goals of our coalition are the same as your goals - 250 00:16:12,683 --> 00:16:14,723 sovereignty for your country, 251 00:16:14,723 --> 00:16:16,803 dignity for your great culture, 252 00:16:16,803 --> 00:16:19,643 and for every Iraqi citizen, 253 00:16:19,643 --> 00:16:21,723 the opportunity for a better life. 254 00:16:22,723 --> 00:16:24,043 And that's the hole. 255 00:16:24,043 --> 00:16:26,163 I think it points to the fact 256 00:16:26,163 --> 00:16:29,283 that Saddam wasn't pulling the levers of the resistance, 257 00:16:29,283 --> 00:16:30,923 because it's not the kind of place 258 00:16:30,923 --> 00:16:33,803 that you could direct an insurgency from. 259 00:16:33,803 --> 00:16:36,083 Interestingly, he had quite a penchant 260 00:16:36,083 --> 00:16:38,683 for Bounty bars and for Mars bars. 261 00:16:38,683 --> 00:16:41,443 Now, what about the weather for the week ahead? 262 00:16:41,443 --> 00:16:43,283 Here is Rob McElwee. Rob. Good evening. 263 00:17:29,723 --> 00:17:32,123 So when he was captured like that, 264 00:17:32,123 --> 00:17:34,603 like, "Ah, no, it's his double, it's not him. 265 00:17:34,603 --> 00:17:37,923 "Impossible to be the same guy, he's invincible. 266 00:17:37,923 --> 00:17:39,603 "He's like Hercules." 267 00:17:39,603 --> 00:17:41,723 But then, no, it's him. 268 00:17:41,723 --> 00:17:44,843 He is Saddam, but he's a person. 269 00:17:44,843 --> 00:17:46,443 He's not a god. 270 00:18:31,523 --> 00:18:35,403 16 members of Um Ibrahim's family were executed 271 00:18:35,403 --> 00:18:39,363 because one of her brothers had been accused of plotting against Saddam. 272 00:19:14,843 --> 00:19:19,803 Like the vast majority of Iraqis, Um Ibrahim is a Shia Muslim. 273 00:19:21,643 --> 00:19:23,163 After years of oppression, 274 00:19:23,163 --> 00:19:26,363 most Shi'ites celebrated the end of the regime. 275 00:19:27,483 --> 00:19:29,643 But it was the minority Sunnis, 276 00:19:29,643 --> 00:19:32,443 who made up less than 20% of the population, 277 00:19:32,443 --> 00:19:34,843 who had always ruled in Iraq. 278 00:19:36,523 --> 00:19:38,963 Some Sunnis saw Saddam's capture 279 00:19:38,963 --> 00:19:41,603 as the end of centuries of their power. 280 00:19:45,163 --> 00:19:46,923 Lots of explosions that day. 281 00:19:48,323 --> 00:19:53,803 And the shooting kept happening for three, four nights. 282 00:19:56,043 --> 00:19:59,643 And it was very dangerous to go out. 283 00:19:59,643 --> 00:20:02,963 Because people were very angry, 284 00:20:02,963 --> 00:20:06,803 especially, I mean, the supporter for Saddam. 285 00:20:06,803 --> 00:20:08,683 But then it settled down. 286 00:20:08,683 --> 00:20:11,363 GUNFIRE 287 00:20:13,763 --> 00:20:17,443 Washington is caught by surprise. 288 00:20:17,443 --> 00:20:20,563 They have a live Saddam Hussein on their hands 289 00:20:20,563 --> 00:20:23,323 and now has to figure out, "What are we going to do with him?" 290 00:20:23,323 --> 00:20:25,083 And so it takes a couple of days, 291 00:20:25,083 --> 00:20:26,963 and then eventually we find out 292 00:20:26,963 --> 00:20:30,483 that we're going to be the ones in charge of debriefing him. 293 00:20:32,163 --> 00:20:34,163 At the end of 2003, 294 00:20:34,163 --> 00:20:37,003 John Nixon started a five-week interrogation 295 00:20:37,003 --> 00:20:40,043 of Saddam Hussein for the CIA. 296 00:20:40,043 --> 00:20:41,843 We get to a door, 297 00:20:41,843 --> 00:20:43,483 and then the door opens. 298 00:20:44,683 --> 00:20:46,323 And-And there he is. 299 00:20:46,323 --> 00:20:49,123 The first thought that came to my mind was, 300 00:20:49,123 --> 00:20:52,363 "Holy shit, it's Saddam, it's actually him!" 301 00:20:52,363 --> 00:20:56,523 Even in his reduced state as a prisoner, 302 00:20:56,523 --> 00:20:58,003 he had a sort of... 303 00:20:58,003 --> 00:21:00,203 I don't want to sound crazy or anything, 304 00:21:00,203 --> 00:21:02,123 but he had a certain aura around him 305 00:21:02,123 --> 00:21:04,723 that was... You felt it. 306 00:21:04,723 --> 00:21:06,363 And I mean, it took my breath away. 307 00:21:07,443 --> 00:21:09,443 You know, I just said to him, you know, 308 00:21:09,443 --> 00:21:11,963 "We're here to ask you some questions, 309 00:21:11,963 --> 00:21:15,283 "and we want you to answer these truthfully and..." 310 00:21:15,283 --> 00:21:18,883 And he listened, and then he just sort of leaned forward, 311 00:21:18,883 --> 00:21:21,243 and he had this mean laugh, he just like... 312 00:21:21,243 --> 00:21:24,123 HE CACKLES 313 00:21:25,643 --> 00:21:26,923 "Let me ask you something. 314 00:21:26,923 --> 00:21:28,523 "Who are you guys? 315 00:21:28,523 --> 00:21:30,923 "What are your names? Where do you come from? 316 00:21:30,923 --> 00:21:32,443 "Identify yourselves to me." 317 00:21:32,443 --> 00:21:35,643 And he's acting like we are his guests, you know? 318 00:21:35,643 --> 00:21:37,443 This is still his country. 319 00:21:37,443 --> 00:21:39,803 He just had this demeanour that said, 320 00:21:39,803 --> 00:21:41,963 "Well, I come here every Saturday night, 321 00:21:41,963 --> 00:21:44,923 "and I always greet my guests this way, so..." 322 00:21:46,123 --> 00:21:48,803 In any event, surprisingly, 323 00:21:48,803 --> 00:21:51,483 we get very little guidance from Washington. 324 00:21:54,203 --> 00:21:59,403 In early 2004, George Bush thinks that Iraq is a solved problem. 325 00:22:03,843 --> 00:22:05,483 Mr Speaker... 326 00:22:07,483 --> 00:22:09,563 Since we last met in this chamber, 327 00:22:09,563 --> 00:22:11,563 the people of Iraq are free. 328 00:22:11,563 --> 00:22:15,363 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 329 00:22:26,163 --> 00:22:28,243 Having broken the Ba'athist regime, 330 00:22:28,243 --> 00:22:31,323 we face a remnant of violent Saddam supporters. 331 00:22:33,043 --> 00:22:35,203 We are dealing with these thugs in Iraq 332 00:22:35,203 --> 00:22:39,923 just as surely as we dealt with Saddam Hussein's evil regime. 333 00:22:42,043 --> 00:22:43,843 The White House wants to know, 334 00:22:43,843 --> 00:22:45,923 where is the weapons of mass destruction? 335 00:22:45,923 --> 00:22:47,923 And it's really all they want to know. 336 00:22:49,163 --> 00:22:53,403 And he'd say, "You found a traitor to turn in Saddam Hussein. 337 00:22:53,403 --> 00:22:56,443 "Why don't you go find another traitor to turn in this WMD?" 338 00:22:56,443 --> 00:22:58,523 And then he launched into this whole thing 339 00:22:58,523 --> 00:23:01,003 about how he didn't have WMD, and then he just said, you know, 340 00:23:01,003 --> 00:23:03,203 "You're being misled by your leaders, 341 00:23:03,203 --> 00:23:04,843 "your leaders are terrible, you know, 342 00:23:04,843 --> 00:23:08,043 "they are people who don't know what they're doing, 343 00:23:08,043 --> 00:23:10,843 "and they don't know the trouble that they're causing, 344 00:23:10,843 --> 00:23:12,363 "and they don't know the problems 345 00:23:12,363 --> 00:23:14,203 "that they're creating for themselves. 346 00:23:14,203 --> 00:23:15,723 "Your leaders are terrible. 347 00:23:15,723 --> 00:23:17,523 "You people don't understand what you've done." 348 00:23:17,523 --> 00:23:19,123 He said, "Because of what you've done, 349 00:23:19,123 --> 00:23:21,683 "you remove Saddam Hussein from power, 350 00:23:21,683 --> 00:23:24,003 "you know, Iraq is going to become 351 00:23:24,003 --> 00:23:26,163 "the playing field for international terrorism. 352 00:23:26,163 --> 00:23:30,723 "You've created the conditions for more terrorism, not less." 353 00:23:37,043 --> 00:23:40,083 Though Iraq was still governed by the coalition, 354 00:23:40,083 --> 00:23:43,683 the intention was to hold democratic elections as soon as possible. 355 00:23:45,123 --> 00:23:47,883 But the end of Saddam's police state meant that people 356 00:23:47,883 --> 00:23:51,203 were already enjoying new freedoms they'd been denied for decades. 357 00:24:17,683 --> 00:24:19,523 Under the old regime, 358 00:24:19,523 --> 00:24:22,763 Saddam had banned religious festivals like Ashura, 359 00:24:22,763 --> 00:24:24,923 where Shia Muslims mourn the death 360 00:24:24,923 --> 00:24:27,083 of the grandson of the Prophet Muhammad. 361 00:24:51,883 --> 00:24:54,283 2003 was the first time 362 00:24:54,283 --> 00:24:58,723 the Shia had been able to celebrate Ashura in years. 363 00:24:58,723 --> 00:25:02,643 And it was beautiful, it was amazing - and peaceful. 364 00:25:06,163 --> 00:25:07,643 2004, 365 00:25:07,643 --> 00:25:10,203 it just went...terribly bad. 366 00:25:10,203 --> 00:25:12,523 HE SIGHS 367 00:25:23,803 --> 00:25:26,883 EXPLOSION ECHOES 368 00:25:26,883 --> 00:25:30,563 SCREAMING 369 00:25:36,643 --> 00:25:40,323 They were attacked by nine bombs. 370 00:25:40,323 --> 00:25:42,083 Just a horrific attack. 371 00:25:44,683 --> 00:25:48,643 175 people dead, hundreds wounded, bodies everywhere. 372 00:25:50,283 --> 00:25:52,643 Bombings like that became more common later on, 373 00:25:52,643 --> 00:25:54,043 but that was one of the... 374 00:25:54,043 --> 00:25:56,923 ..the really, really big ones that showed 375 00:25:56,923 --> 00:25:59,443 just how bloody and heartless 376 00:25:59,443 --> 00:26:01,123 this thing was going to become. 377 00:26:02,563 --> 00:26:04,843 I mean, that's when it all really fell apart. 378 00:26:06,763 --> 00:26:09,683 EXPLOSION, SCREAMING 379 00:26:11,323 --> 00:26:15,683 The Ashura bombings confirmed that the insurgency had evolved. 380 00:26:15,683 --> 00:26:18,403 What had started as uncoordinated attacks 381 00:26:18,403 --> 00:26:21,203 by people loyal to the old regime 382 00:26:21,203 --> 00:26:25,443 had grown into a complex terrorist network. 383 00:26:25,443 --> 00:26:30,243 By the end of 2004, it was known as Al-Qaeda In Iraq. 384 00:26:34,083 --> 00:26:37,883 Al-Qaeda In Iraq, which was founded by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, 385 00:26:37,883 --> 00:26:41,403 was basically this kind of unkillable... 386 00:26:42,443 --> 00:26:44,003 ..killing machine. 387 00:26:44,003 --> 00:26:47,003 I mean, they couldn't stop it, you know? They could not stop it. 388 00:26:47,003 --> 00:26:48,883 He was like the evil genius. Yeah. 389 00:26:54,003 --> 00:26:57,083 Zarqawi was a Sunni extremist. 390 00:26:57,083 --> 00:27:00,243 He had decided that because they were a minority 391 00:27:00,243 --> 00:27:02,443 and couldn't win the elections, 392 00:27:02,443 --> 00:27:05,323 the only way for Sunnis to regain control of Iraq 393 00:27:05,323 --> 00:27:06,883 was to win a civil war. 394 00:27:06,883 --> 00:27:08,803 SIRENS AND SHOUTING 395 00:27:10,523 --> 00:27:13,083 SHE SOBS 396 00:27:23,403 --> 00:27:25,123 Americans got ahold of this letter 397 00:27:25,123 --> 00:27:28,363 that Zarqawi had written to Bin Laden, 398 00:27:28,363 --> 00:27:31,203 and it was Zarqawi saying, "We're going to start bombing 399 00:27:31,203 --> 00:27:35,643 "mosques and hospitals and schools until we can provoke a backlash." 400 00:27:38,323 --> 00:27:41,003 They wanted the Shi'ite to start killing Sunnis, 401 00:27:41,003 --> 00:27:43,523 cos that would bring the civil war. 402 00:27:43,523 --> 00:27:48,003 So, it was an incredibly dark vision, absolutely insane. 403 00:27:48,003 --> 00:27:52,123 What wasn't clear was, you know, whether they could pull it off, 404 00:27:52,123 --> 00:27:55,843 weather Al-Qaeda, in its insanity, could do this. 405 00:27:57,163 --> 00:27:58,723 But the anger was building, 406 00:27:58,723 --> 00:28:01,283 and it was building and building and building. 407 00:28:01,283 --> 00:28:03,203 You know, if you go out into the streets, 408 00:28:03,203 --> 00:28:05,403 people would say, "We want to strike back." 409 00:28:07,283 --> 00:28:10,043 The Shi'ites, by and large, wanted revenge. 410 00:30:20,723 --> 00:30:22,883 SIRENS ECHO 411 00:30:49,523 --> 00:30:51,883 BEEP 412 00:30:51,883 --> 00:30:53,643 SHE LAUGHS 413 00:30:56,443 --> 00:30:58,403 ELECTRICAL SYSTEM BEEPS 414 00:31:01,843 --> 00:31:03,403 BEEP 415 00:31:06,723 --> 00:31:08,323 BEEP 416 00:31:11,883 --> 00:31:13,043 BEEP 417 00:31:15,443 --> 00:31:19,443 JOHN NIXON: Periodically, we lose electricity and the room goes dark. 418 00:31:20,763 --> 00:31:23,603 And all of a sudden we're like... "What happened? What happened? 419 00:31:23,603 --> 00:31:25,363 "What's going on?" 420 00:31:25,363 --> 00:31:27,523 And meanwhile, like, Saddam never flinched. 421 00:31:27,523 --> 00:31:30,003 It just, it didn't faze him one bit. 422 00:31:30,003 --> 00:31:32,803 The other thing is that, when we'd be talking, 423 00:31:32,803 --> 00:31:35,523 you could hear explosions in the background, 424 00:31:35,523 --> 00:31:39,003 and he was fully aware that things aren't going well, 425 00:31:39,003 --> 00:31:43,203 and he said, "You have to understand Iraqis, they're always plotting, 426 00:31:43,203 --> 00:31:46,003 "and you have to keep your eyes on them 24 hours a day." 427 00:31:48,163 --> 00:31:50,963 Saddam had his hand on the lid, basically, 428 00:31:50,963 --> 00:31:53,003 and had these people suppressed... 429 00:31:54,643 --> 00:31:58,003 ..and when we removed Saddam, we removed his hand from the lid - 430 00:31:58,003 --> 00:32:00,003 and once the lid came off, 431 00:32:00,003 --> 00:32:04,403 out of the sewer came Zarqawi and Al-Qaeda In Iraq. 432 00:32:07,723 --> 00:32:09,723 Some people called it the republic of fear. 433 00:32:09,723 --> 00:32:12,403 I think Saddam would have called it good government. 434 00:32:15,403 --> 00:32:19,763 The year 2005 will be recorded as a turning point 435 00:32:19,763 --> 00:32:21,363 in the history of Iraq, 436 00:32:21,363 --> 00:32:25,243 the history of the Middle East, and the history of freedom. 437 00:32:27,283 --> 00:32:30,803 The country's buzzing with sights and sounds of democracy in action. 438 00:32:36,843 --> 00:32:39,443 Polling day has been marred by a wave of suicide bombings 439 00:32:39,443 --> 00:32:41,603 and mortar attacks by insurgents. 440 00:32:41,603 --> 00:32:44,163 It's sometimes it's difficult to reconcile the anger 441 00:32:44,163 --> 00:32:48,363 among so many Sunni people and the sheer joy of Shi'ites. 442 00:32:48,363 --> 00:32:50,883 The mood here is remarkably festive, 443 00:32:50,883 --> 00:32:53,323 many people have come out just to celebrate. 444 00:32:53,323 --> 00:32:55,683 Very, very happy today! Very, very happy! 445 00:32:55,683 --> 00:32:56,723 SIREN WAILS 446 00:32:56,723 --> 00:32:58,683 But, as expected, there were attacks. 447 00:32:59,963 --> 00:33:02,843 The Shias are certain to win the largest slice of power. 448 00:33:02,843 --> 00:33:05,883 The Sunnis, on the other hand, will be the big losers. 449 00:33:09,083 --> 00:33:10,843 The elections in 2005 450 00:33:10,843 --> 00:33:15,123 not only confirmed that the Sunnis had lost control to the Shia, 451 00:33:15,123 --> 00:33:18,563 but, for many Iraqis, the democratic process 452 00:33:18,563 --> 00:33:21,403 highlighted sectarian differences for the first time. 453 00:33:24,163 --> 00:33:28,683 Before 2003, when Saddam was controlling a dictatorship, 454 00:33:28,683 --> 00:33:30,643 you can never find someone 455 00:33:30,643 --> 00:33:33,083 who says that there is a difference between Iraqis. 456 00:33:33,083 --> 00:33:34,483 It was very hard to. 457 00:33:34,483 --> 00:33:37,003 What do you mean, there was a difference between Iraqis? 458 00:33:37,003 --> 00:33:39,283 I mean, there's no difference between Iraqis. 459 00:33:39,283 --> 00:33:42,963 Like, you can't tell who's Sunni, who's Shia, who's Christian. 460 00:33:44,803 --> 00:33:48,123 More like one country, and one people. 461 00:33:48,123 --> 00:33:50,763 This is the good side about that time. 462 00:33:53,083 --> 00:33:56,443 Months of aggressive campaigning by opposing political parties 463 00:33:56,443 --> 00:34:00,683 had helped divide Iraq into its various religious factions. 464 00:34:19,243 --> 00:34:21,803 So they started to feed these ideas to the people. 465 00:34:22,803 --> 00:34:24,883 Who are "they"? Who are you talking about? 466 00:34:24,883 --> 00:34:27,243 I am talking about the politicians. 467 00:34:27,243 --> 00:34:29,643 So, they split Iraq - literally. 468 00:34:32,683 --> 00:34:35,683 A very well dressed, elegant-looking woman 469 00:34:35,683 --> 00:34:38,363 looked at me with just incredible anger, 470 00:34:38,363 --> 00:34:40,283 and she said, um... 471 00:34:40,283 --> 00:34:42,963 "You. 472 00:34:42,963 --> 00:34:44,683 "You Americans. 473 00:34:44,683 --> 00:34:46,643 "You destroyed our country. 474 00:34:46,643 --> 00:34:48,443 "And you called it democracy." 475 00:34:53,163 --> 00:34:58,843 So, one of the things that drove the civil war was the elections. 476 00:35:06,443 --> 00:35:10,803 There was rumours that the Americans asked Saddam, 477 00:35:10,803 --> 00:35:16,963 "How much time do you need to make the situation in Iraq better?" 478 00:35:16,963 --> 00:35:19,003 He said, "I will need one hour. 479 00:35:19,003 --> 00:35:23,283 "45 minutes to shave and to change my clothes, 480 00:35:23,283 --> 00:35:27,163 "and 15 minutes to say my speech on TV. 481 00:35:27,163 --> 00:35:32,163 "And this is how Iraq will settle down. It will be fine." It's not... 482 00:35:36,643 --> 00:35:38,763 He believes that it could have happened. 483 00:35:38,763 --> 00:35:40,563 He could do it. 484 00:35:47,603 --> 00:35:52,283 In October 2005, Saddam and leading members of his regime 485 00:35:52,283 --> 00:35:55,323 began their trial for crimes against humanity. 486 00:36:31,483 --> 00:36:32,883 UM IBRAHIM: 487 00:37:00,963 --> 00:37:02,843 ISSAM AL RAWI: 488 00:37:46,803 --> 00:37:49,243 I sat there and talked to him like you and me are right now. 489 00:37:49,243 --> 00:37:52,083 No joke, I played chess with the guy - and he beat me both times. 490 00:37:52,083 --> 00:37:53,283 He beat me in three moves, 491 00:37:53,283 --> 00:37:55,523 and then I said, "You ain't going to beat me again," 492 00:37:55,523 --> 00:37:57,603 and I'll be darned if he didn't beat me in five. 493 00:37:57,603 --> 00:37:59,523 I don't know how the heck he did it, to this day. 494 00:37:59,523 --> 00:38:02,563 Brandon Barfield was one of the military police 495 00:38:02,563 --> 00:38:04,723 who guarded Saddam during his trial. 496 00:38:06,163 --> 00:38:09,123 This is the main building that we kept him in. 497 00:38:09,123 --> 00:38:13,603 As you can see, that whole building's basically destroyed. 498 00:38:13,603 --> 00:38:16,643 We did it so nobody would think he was there. 499 00:38:16,643 --> 00:38:19,203 There's a little concrete wall right here, 500 00:38:19,203 --> 00:38:21,163 and that's where he'd sit, outside - 501 00:38:21,163 --> 00:38:23,603 and this is where his plants were. 502 00:38:23,603 --> 00:38:25,123 He'd be out there every day, 503 00:38:25,123 --> 00:38:27,403 talking to them and watering them all the time. 504 00:38:27,403 --> 00:38:30,603 You know, he'd always joke, cos it was a bunch of weeds and stuff. 505 00:38:31,723 --> 00:38:34,483 Basically, we were baby-sitters. Whatever he wanted, he got. 506 00:38:36,363 --> 00:38:39,523 Brandon's unit called themselves the Super 12. 507 00:38:39,523 --> 00:38:42,083 Part of their job was to escort Saddam to court. 508 00:38:44,963 --> 00:38:48,683 I remember, one day, he got right to the door 509 00:38:48,683 --> 00:38:50,883 and he's like "I'm tired, I didn't sleep good, 510 00:38:50,883 --> 00:38:52,443 "I am not going to court." 511 00:38:52,443 --> 00:38:54,683 He said, "I want to smoke a cigar," with his buddies, 512 00:38:54,683 --> 00:38:56,083 with all the rest of them on trial - 513 00:38:56,083 --> 00:38:58,323 and I was like, "I don't know what to tell you, boss man, 514 00:38:58,323 --> 00:38:59,763 "you've to go to court." 515 00:38:59,763 --> 00:39:03,403 So, I opened the door, and he goes, "Watch this." 516 00:39:03,403 --> 00:39:05,003 As soon as I opened that door, 517 00:39:05,003 --> 00:39:07,643 man, he stepped in, he started yelling. 518 00:39:07,643 --> 00:39:10,603 Calling the judge all kinds of names. 519 00:39:10,603 --> 00:39:13,083 THEY SPEAK IN ARABIC 520 00:39:21,843 --> 00:39:23,563 DOOR CLOSES 521 00:39:23,563 --> 00:39:27,283 He was in there maybe three-and-a-half minutes, 522 00:39:27,283 --> 00:39:30,563 and I remember he took a deep breath and... 523 00:39:30,563 --> 00:39:32,723 "I think I will have my cigar now." 524 00:39:32,723 --> 00:39:35,723 And I was like, "Dude, this guy is running the court, man," 525 00:39:35,723 --> 00:39:37,163 and I couldn't help but laugh, 526 00:39:37,163 --> 00:39:40,323 I said, "Man, you got 'em, boss man, you got 'em." 527 00:39:40,323 --> 00:39:42,483 So, we took him downstairs, got him the cigar, 528 00:39:42,483 --> 00:39:44,643 and he wanted all his buddies to come down there, 529 00:39:44,643 --> 00:39:46,243 so they cancelled court that day 530 00:39:46,243 --> 00:39:48,723 and gave that man his cigars with all his buddies. 531 00:39:48,723 --> 00:39:51,043 I just thought that was the craziest thing, man, 532 00:39:51,043 --> 00:39:54,043 but, yeah, whatever he wanted, he got, man. 533 00:39:58,403 --> 00:40:01,643 He was captured as a coward, man, 534 00:40:01,643 --> 00:40:04,003 but you see him at the court, 535 00:40:04,003 --> 00:40:06,883 he was screaming at the judge, yelling, 536 00:40:06,883 --> 00:40:12,963 and he acted still like a president, and he's not afraid of anything. 537 00:40:12,963 --> 00:40:16,523 He just started making himself look better. 538 00:40:17,723 --> 00:40:19,843 Pissed me off, big time. 539 00:40:19,843 --> 00:40:23,243 I mean, how could he get away with that? How? 540 00:40:23,243 --> 00:40:27,603 I mean, he committed so many crimes against the Iraqi people, 541 00:40:27,603 --> 00:40:29,803 killing thousands of innocent civilians. 542 00:40:32,363 --> 00:40:34,483 A person like him, 543 00:40:34,483 --> 00:40:36,883 he should not have no mercy, really. 544 00:40:43,883 --> 00:40:45,963 MAN IN GALLERY: 545 00:41:16,443 --> 00:41:19,123 How did that make you feel, when you saw those images? 546 00:41:22,163 --> 00:41:25,803 I had a relationship at that time, I didn't care anything. 547 00:41:25,803 --> 00:41:27,323 I didn't care about anything! 548 00:41:27,323 --> 00:41:29,523 Tell me about the mood on the street, then. 549 00:41:29,523 --> 00:41:31,163 Do you remember the mood of the country? 550 00:41:31,163 --> 00:41:34,883 His... His popularity grow. 551 00:41:34,883 --> 00:41:38,403 He lost it to zero, and then he started to gain it again - 552 00:41:38,403 --> 00:41:39,923 from the court. 553 00:41:39,923 --> 00:41:41,683 On the streets? On the streets. Yes. 554 00:41:47,643 --> 00:41:51,843 The new Shia-dominated government begged for calm, 555 00:41:51,843 --> 00:41:55,563 but coalition troops had been unable to stop the Al-Qaeda attacks 556 00:41:55,563 --> 00:41:56,723 on Shi'ite civilians... 557 00:41:58,723 --> 00:42:02,243 ..and now Sunnis were being targeted in retaliation. 558 00:42:07,203 --> 00:42:08,603 What is it really like 559 00:42:08,603 --> 00:42:11,323 to try to cover this war on the ground in Iraq? 560 00:42:11,323 --> 00:42:12,883 It's dangerous. 561 00:42:12,883 --> 00:42:14,643 All the time, everywhere, 562 00:42:14,643 --> 00:42:17,283 and you just have to think through everything that you do 563 00:42:17,283 --> 00:42:18,723 very carefully before you do it - 564 00:42:18,723 --> 00:42:21,123 but there's no way to do it without taking a lot of risks. 565 00:42:22,843 --> 00:42:27,923 I wake up every morning and there's 15 Sunni males, 566 00:42:27,923 --> 00:42:29,483 bullets in the back of the head, 567 00:42:29,483 --> 00:42:31,323 in one of the Sunni neighbourhoods. 568 00:42:33,643 --> 00:42:36,043 And those were the hardest neighbourhoods to go into, 569 00:42:36,043 --> 00:42:37,763 because the Sunni neighbourhoods 570 00:42:37,763 --> 00:42:40,043 often had the big kind of Al-Qaeda presence. 571 00:42:40,043 --> 00:42:41,243 So, it was difficult for us 572 00:42:41,243 --> 00:42:43,683 to try and figure out, like, what's going on here - 573 00:42:43,683 --> 00:42:45,923 but slowly we kind of pieced it together, 574 00:42:45,923 --> 00:42:48,603 and what was happening was, 575 00:42:48,603 --> 00:42:53,203 the kind of American-built, American-trained, 576 00:42:53,203 --> 00:42:57,963 American-armed Iraqi police force and army, 577 00:42:57,963 --> 00:43:01,283 largely Shi'ite, was, like, moving into the Sunni neighbourhoods 578 00:43:01,283 --> 00:43:04,003 and just killing Sunnis, and they were striking back. 579 00:43:06,283 --> 00:43:09,243 And so they had the uniforms on, but it would be like, 580 00:43:09,243 --> 00:43:13,683 "Tonight, after work, we're going to go into the Sunni neighbourhoods 581 00:43:13,683 --> 00:43:16,723 "out west and we're going to, like, take down some guys. 582 00:43:19,003 --> 00:43:21,003 "We're going to set up some checkpoints, 583 00:43:21,003 --> 00:43:26,123 "we're going to pull everybody over and look at their ID card, 584 00:43:26,123 --> 00:43:30,003 "and if you see a Sunni name, like Omar, 585 00:43:30,003 --> 00:43:31,763 "that's a Sunni... 586 00:43:31,763 --> 00:43:33,443 "..give it to 'em." 587 00:43:39,843 --> 00:43:44,643 We were carrying two IDs - one for the Sunni checkpoint 588 00:43:44,643 --> 00:43:46,843 and the other for the Shia checkpoint. 589 00:43:48,363 --> 00:43:49,443 It's different - 590 00:43:49,443 --> 00:43:52,083 the names, the tribe, the province, everything. 591 00:43:52,083 --> 00:43:55,043 Lots of people got killed, and they are Sunni, 592 00:43:55,043 --> 00:43:56,963 they were killed by Sunni checkpoint, 593 00:43:56,963 --> 00:43:59,283 because they pulled the wrong ID. 594 00:43:59,283 --> 00:44:01,123 And they were like, "No, no, no, we are Sunni, 595 00:44:01,123 --> 00:44:02,723 "but we are faking we are Shia." 596 00:44:02,723 --> 00:44:04,003 Shhh! They were killed. 597 00:44:10,403 --> 00:44:13,723 As the sectarian violence in Baghdad intensified, 598 00:44:13,723 --> 00:44:15,603 millions fled the capital. 599 00:44:19,403 --> 00:44:20,883 I don't want to call it an exodus, 600 00:44:20,883 --> 00:44:23,283 but we have come across quite a few people leaving for good. 601 00:44:23,283 --> 00:44:27,283 Mostly people with money. Er, the poor can't really afford to do it. 602 00:44:27,283 --> 00:44:30,203 I have noticed a lot of doctors and guys like that doing it. 603 00:44:31,203 --> 00:44:33,523 So, I told my family to leave Iraq - 604 00:44:33,523 --> 00:44:36,683 repeatedly told them, "Go to Syria, like everyone else. 605 00:44:37,763 --> 00:44:39,563 Just go to Syria and live there. 606 00:44:39,563 --> 00:44:41,763 They refused. Why? 607 00:44:41,763 --> 00:44:44,123 I don't know, they say, "No, this is our country, 608 00:44:44,123 --> 00:44:46,683 "this is the city that we have to be here..." 609 00:44:46,683 --> 00:44:48,243 All this bullshit. 610 00:45:20,083 --> 00:45:21,723 SALLY MARS: 611 00:45:43,443 --> 00:45:44,963 How's it look on the left side? 612 00:45:51,003 --> 00:45:53,883 And still the civil war didn't start yet. 613 00:45:53,883 --> 00:45:56,683 It was only a chaos before the war. 614 00:45:58,843 --> 00:46:02,003 When would you say the civil war began, then? 615 00:46:02,003 --> 00:46:04,683 The civil war began 2006, 616 00:46:04,683 --> 00:46:06,763 beginning of 2006. 617 00:46:14,603 --> 00:46:18,363 The event that finally pushed Iraq into a civil war 618 00:46:18,363 --> 00:46:21,363 was the bombing of one of the Shia's holiest shrines. 619 00:46:26,043 --> 00:46:29,403 Every hour that passes here brings yet more violence. 620 00:46:29,403 --> 00:46:33,003 We are now hearing about a massacre on the outskirts of Baghdad - 621 00:46:33,003 --> 00:46:36,603 but that's just one of many, many incidents. 622 00:46:36,603 --> 00:46:39,043 And, Jonathan, in terms of the military response, 623 00:46:39,043 --> 00:46:41,123 what are the British and American troops doing? 624 00:46:41,123 --> 00:46:43,763 The Americans have told all of their troops here in Baghdad 625 00:46:43,763 --> 00:46:46,483 and the surrounding regions that they should not travel - 626 00:46:46,483 --> 00:46:49,443 they should stay in their barracks unless absolutely necessary. 627 00:46:49,443 --> 00:46:51,403 And it's the same in the south. 628 00:46:51,403 --> 00:46:53,163 We've had no reports of British troops 629 00:46:53,163 --> 00:46:55,003 trying to calm the situation down. 630 00:46:57,443 --> 00:47:00,083 It was like the worst thing ever happened to Iraq, 631 00:47:00,083 --> 00:47:04,963 because normal civilians fighting normal civilians and for no reason. 632 00:47:04,963 --> 00:47:08,723 They were just like, "Let's go, let's fight." 633 00:47:08,723 --> 00:47:11,883 Just because they are Sunni and they are Shia and that's it. 634 00:47:21,083 --> 00:47:22,363 I was ready to die. 635 00:47:23,523 --> 00:47:25,323 Everyone in Iraq was ready to die. 636 00:47:26,403 --> 00:47:29,163 He knows that he could die any minute - 637 00:47:29,163 --> 00:47:32,123 random bullets, explosion, 638 00:47:32,123 --> 00:47:35,963 American convoy - anything in the street could kill you. 639 00:47:43,523 --> 00:47:45,963 It was like hell in Iraq. 640 00:47:54,723 --> 00:47:58,523 I don't think there is a family... and they didn't lose anyone. 641 00:48:00,363 --> 00:48:02,443 Everyone was losing everyone. 642 00:48:08,443 --> 00:48:10,523 Can you tell me what happened to your brother? 643 00:48:10,523 --> 00:48:11,723 Shit. 644 00:48:12,843 --> 00:48:14,763 Do I have to?! 645 00:48:14,763 --> 00:48:16,603 Of course you don't have to. 646 00:48:22,243 --> 00:48:24,683 It's, er... I hate that moment. 647 00:48:26,723 --> 00:48:30,243 My brother was, er...he... 648 00:48:33,043 --> 00:48:35,723 He was killed in a very brutal way. 649 00:48:37,523 --> 00:48:41,843 The mortar shell fell right on his head. 650 00:48:43,843 --> 00:48:48,683 And he was... He became pieces. Literally. 651 00:48:50,163 --> 00:48:51,643 I saw the pieces. 652 00:48:53,803 --> 00:48:58,403 And we collected the pieces to make a body, 653 00:48:58,403 --> 00:49:01,763 so my mum thinks that there's a human. 654 00:49:03,843 --> 00:49:07,883 But there wasn't...a human. 655 00:49:09,803 --> 00:49:11,803 I don't want to talk about it, please. 656 00:49:48,483 --> 00:49:50,483 One day, when I was talking to Saddam 657 00:49:50,483 --> 00:49:52,203 he said, "I know where this is headed. 658 00:49:52,203 --> 00:49:54,123 "I know I'm never getting out of here, 659 00:49:54,123 --> 00:49:56,563 "and I know that this is going to lead to my death," 660 00:49:56,563 --> 00:49:59,603 but he said, "I am at peace with my God, 661 00:49:59,603 --> 00:50:03,323 "and everything that I did, I did for the Iraqi people," 662 00:50:03,323 --> 00:50:06,483 and, er, basically, "I am OK with that." 663 00:50:58,283 --> 00:51:00,523 Sergeant Coleman called me to the office, 664 00:51:00,523 --> 00:51:02,603 like, "Hey, he's going to be hung now," 665 00:51:02,603 --> 00:51:06,123 and I was like, "Er, how are we going to tell him that?" 666 00:51:06,123 --> 00:51:08,203 And he said, "Well, I'm just going to go in there, 667 00:51:08,203 --> 00:51:09,763 "you wake him up and I'll tell him." 668 00:51:09,763 --> 00:51:11,843 So me and him were standing next to the cell 669 00:51:11,843 --> 00:51:16,203 when Sergeant Coleman, the only thing he said was, "Sir, it's time." 670 00:51:17,403 --> 00:51:20,163 And so he, literally, he threw the covers off, 671 00:51:20,163 --> 00:51:22,003 and he goes, "I am ready." 672 00:51:22,003 --> 00:51:23,523 And that was it. 673 00:51:23,523 --> 00:51:25,043 That's the Rhino right here. 674 00:51:26,083 --> 00:51:29,283 Is that the vehicle that took Saddam to the gallows? 675 00:51:29,283 --> 00:51:31,123 Yes, the exact same one. 676 00:51:36,643 --> 00:51:38,963 He shook my hand and told me I was a good soldier, 677 00:51:38,963 --> 00:51:42,683 and then he gave me some money with his picture on it. 678 00:51:42,683 --> 00:51:44,323 He gave everybody the same thing. 679 00:51:44,323 --> 00:51:46,083 And then he got to the front of the bus 680 00:51:46,083 --> 00:51:48,923 and he started crying and said bye to everybody - 681 00:51:48,923 --> 00:51:52,603 but he didn't bawl, you know, you could tell he was crying, 682 00:51:52,603 --> 00:51:55,203 he wiped his eyes and he... 683 00:51:55,203 --> 00:51:57,843 ..you know held his hand up and waved bye to everybody 684 00:51:57,843 --> 00:51:59,683 and then said bye and got off the bus. 685 00:52:02,563 --> 00:52:08,163 He was upset because he was being hung and being treated as a traitor. 686 00:52:08,163 --> 00:52:10,643 He said that was a coward's way to go out. 687 00:52:10,643 --> 00:52:13,123 He wanted to be killed by a firing squad, 688 00:52:13,123 --> 00:52:15,963 cos that's the way he said soldiers were supposed to die. 689 00:52:17,843 --> 00:52:23,123 And, er, he had his wife's scarf on that she made him. 690 00:52:23,123 --> 00:52:24,723 He refused to take it off, 691 00:52:24,723 --> 00:52:27,763 because that was his way of his wife being with him. 692 00:52:30,483 --> 00:52:32,363 He used to talk about her all the time. 693 00:52:48,923 --> 00:52:51,123 He knew exactly what was going to happen. 694 00:52:51,123 --> 00:52:53,203 He knew exactly, this was how it would be. 695 00:52:54,483 --> 00:52:58,123 It would end with him being surrounded by his enemies 696 00:52:58,123 --> 00:53:00,563 being taunted and, er... 697 00:53:00,563 --> 00:53:02,763 It shouldn't have been like that. 698 00:53:04,643 --> 00:53:07,923 And, to me, when I saw this happen, 699 00:53:07,923 --> 00:53:10,643 I said this is the final justification 700 00:53:10,643 --> 00:53:13,723 for the war that has now been pulled out. 701 00:53:16,083 --> 00:53:18,323 We went there to create a new Iraq. 702 00:53:18,323 --> 00:53:21,003 At least we were going to create rule of law, 703 00:53:21,003 --> 00:53:23,203 and that things would be different - 704 00:53:23,203 --> 00:53:26,643 but instead I saw this hanging in the middle of the night, 705 00:53:26,643 --> 00:53:30,003 and rather than rule of law, it's just mob justice. 706 00:53:31,763 --> 00:53:34,683 And it was at that point in time 707 00:53:34,683 --> 00:53:38,043 that I began to really feel complicit 708 00:53:38,043 --> 00:53:40,603 in a...in an almost criminal action, 709 00:53:40,603 --> 00:53:45,723 um, and I began to come to the belief that we shouldn't be there, 710 00:53:45,723 --> 00:53:48,243 and that we had no reason to be there, 711 00:53:48,243 --> 00:53:50,683 and everything we do makes the situation worse. 712 00:54:00,363 --> 00:54:03,723 This is a country that's been brutalised, you know, 713 00:54:03,723 --> 00:54:05,883 brutalised in every way for decades. 714 00:54:07,603 --> 00:54:10,483 A lot of people were happy the way it was done. 715 00:54:10,483 --> 00:54:12,083 They wanted that. 716 00:54:12,083 --> 00:54:14,883 No dignity, no ceremony - kill him, do it. 717 00:54:14,883 --> 00:54:16,803 CROWD CHANTS 718 00:54:18,803 --> 00:54:22,683 But, for that moment of satisfaction that they all got, 719 00:54:22,683 --> 00:54:24,563 you know, it was self-defeating. 720 00:54:30,723 --> 00:54:34,883 The way that he was executed was so ghastly 721 00:54:34,883 --> 00:54:40,363 that it achieved the kind of remarkable effect 722 00:54:40,363 --> 00:54:45,083 of turning that monster into, in many people's eyes, a martyr. 723 00:55:15,923 --> 00:55:17,323 UM IBRAHIM: 724 00:56:54,203 --> 00:56:58,483 I didn't want to stay in the house where my brother got killed. 725 00:56:58,483 --> 00:57:03,763 I couldn't, because I think my family - it's their fault. 726 00:57:03,763 --> 00:57:05,883 I told them to leave Iraq, and they didn't. 727 00:57:05,883 --> 00:57:09,523 After that they said, "Oh, now we should go to Syria." 728 00:57:09,523 --> 00:57:10,963 No, it's too late. 729 00:57:12,483 --> 00:57:15,523 So, I couldn't, I couldn't see them. 730 00:57:15,523 --> 00:57:18,963 So I left to my uncle's house in Ramadi, 731 00:57:18,963 --> 00:57:21,683 and I lived there for two years. With my uncle. 732 00:57:25,083 --> 00:57:28,003 In Ramadi, Al-Qaeda were controlling the streets. 733 00:57:33,003 --> 00:57:35,723 They control every detail in your life. 734 00:57:35,723 --> 00:57:38,563 Of course, women are not allowed to do anything, 735 00:57:38,563 --> 00:57:40,723 except sitting in the houses. 736 00:57:40,723 --> 00:57:43,283 They make you watch people got killed, 737 00:57:43,283 --> 00:57:45,043 while they're killing, 738 00:57:45,043 --> 00:57:47,083 and they terrify you all the day - 739 00:57:47,083 --> 00:57:51,243 everything you can imagine, they did. 740 00:57:51,243 --> 00:57:54,683 But at least in Anbar, Ramadi, I know I have one enemy - 741 00:57:54,683 --> 00:57:56,443 it's Al-Qaeda. 742 00:57:56,443 --> 00:57:58,483 In Baghdad there is one thousand - 743 00:57:58,483 --> 00:58:00,923 I don't know who's want to kill me and why, 744 00:58:00,923 --> 00:58:02,683 but in Ramadi, there is Al-Qaeda, 745 00:58:02,683 --> 00:58:05,523 I just, I have to hide from them, and that's it. 746 00:58:09,403 --> 00:58:10,963 And then Isis came. 747 00:58:34,323 --> 00:58:36,603 The only choice you have 748 00:58:36,603 --> 00:58:40,683 is either to be a victim or to be the killer. 749 00:58:42,083 --> 00:58:44,083 VIDEO: We have won against Isis. 750 00:58:45,563 --> 00:58:48,283 We've beaten them, and we've beaten them badly.