1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:05,000 This programme contains scenes which some viewers may find disturbing. 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:07,400 DISCO MUSIC PLAYS 3 00:00:19,080 --> 00:00:23,080 I'm an Iraqi, I was born and raised in Iraq. 4 00:00:23,080 --> 00:00:26,600 It is a big-time culture shock. 5 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:28,880 Different lifestyle. 6 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:31,760 Completely different lifestyle. 7 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,840 Life in America, man, it just...it's beautiful. 8 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,520 When they started the war, 2003, 9 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:50,840 they want people to be a translator with the special forces. 10 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,840 I was like, "I'm in." 11 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:56,880 We go kick doors, 12 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,640 looking for anything that lead us 13 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,600 to the capture of Saddam. 14 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,120 I hated him, I hated the regime. 15 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,360 This man destroyed the country. 16 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,520 This man hurt me and hurt my family. 17 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,360 A lot of people ask me, like, "How come you?" 18 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,240 "How come you the one?" 19 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,960 I just...was there in the right time 20 00:01:25,960 --> 00:01:28,360 with the right people in the right place. 21 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,720 In this series, the story of the Iraq War 22 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,080 is told by civilians, journalists and soldiers... 23 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,120 ..who lived through the 2003 invasion 24 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,520 and the years of chaos that continue to this day. 25 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:47,240 We set up the perfect conditions, 26 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,920 it's the perfect storm for an insurgency. 27 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,040 The invasion basically radicalised the whole society. 28 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,880 It forced people to religious extremes. 29 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,360 That, to me, was always one of the great ironies. 30 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:34,800 How are you doing? 31 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:40,800 This one, we're asking 2,500 down and total price 6,900. 32 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,320 Samir grew up in southern Iraq, 33 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,760 but he was forced to leave when he was 22 years old, 34 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,240 because he'd taken part in a huge uprising 35 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,960 by Shia Muslims against the regime. 36 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:55,000 CHANTING 37 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:56,440 The rebellion ended 38 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:57,880 when Saddam used his army 39 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,920 to massacre over 80,000 of his own people. 40 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,520 And hundreds of thousands more had to flee their homes. 41 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:15,960 This is in Nasiriyah, my city. 42 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,480 That's the reason we left, quick. 43 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,520 You rather to die than get captured by these guys. 44 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:31,680 I have a lot of friends that are missing. 45 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,400 They didn't find their bodies. 46 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:40,000 ECHOING GUNFIRE, SHOUTING 47 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:48,840 Hmm. 48 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:53,680 HE SIGHS HEAVILY 49 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,120 Sometimes it feels like yesterday it happened, you know, just... 50 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:01,080 Yeah. 51 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,160 We were hoping one day a miracle was going to happen 52 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,160 that take Saddam away from power. 53 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,960 And I just want to be part of the operation, 54 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,600 to go and fight, to help free my own people. 55 00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:27,200 I just want... 56 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:30,720 ..revenge. 57 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,640 Here, I'm going to show you this appreciation letter 58 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:40,400 that I got from the military. 59 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:46,520 This is back in 2004, I met President Bush. 60 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,040 People, when they see these pictures, 61 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:50,840 they get so excited. 62 00:04:50,840 --> 00:04:53,320 They always like to... 63 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,000 ..hear the story. 64 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:58,760 They like what I did. 65 00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:10,080 I wanted to be part of history in some way, 66 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:15,480 and I thought that working at the CIA would, uh, enable me to do that. 67 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,480 A-And I was right. 68 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,560 John Nixon was a senior analyst for the CIA 69 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,400 during the Bush administration. 70 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,960 He'd studied Saddam for years 71 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,120 and volunteered to go to Iraq soon after the war began. 72 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,320 In your own time, John. 73 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:34,840 Oh, I'm sorry, oh! 74 00:05:34,840 --> 00:05:37,560 I thought you were mulling over what you were going to say. Oh, no. 75 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,240 From my experience working as a CIA analyst, 76 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:42,760 I've come to the conclusion 77 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:46,280 that all the best analysts have a bit of the obsessive in them. 78 00:05:46,280 --> 00:05:48,680 Friend Of The Devil by The Grateful Dead 79 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,000 This is Apollo-Saturn launch control. 80 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:56,280 When I was young, I became fascinated by space exploration. 81 00:05:56,280 --> 00:05:58,920 I knew all the names, I knew all the dates. 82 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:00,440 I even knew the Russian missions. 83 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,120 I wanted to be an astronaut. 84 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,480 It's very pretty out here! 85 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,840 After astronauts, it then became sporting teams, 86 00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:09,280 like hockey and baseball and football. 87 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,120 And then after that, I became kind of obsessed 88 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,080 with popular music, like the Grateful Dead. 89 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,640 And then, when Saddam invaded Kuwait... 90 00:06:23,840 --> 00:06:26,000 ..I had kind of an obsession with him. 91 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,000 Colourful stories about his family. 92 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:33,320 There are all sorts of petty jealousies and hatreds. 93 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,640 It's like The Simpsons with guns. 94 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:38,840 # A friend of the devil is a friend of mine 95 00:06:38,840 --> 00:06:40,760 # If I get home before daylight 96 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,320 # I just might get some sleep tonight... # 97 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,960 He was such a big part of my life. 98 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:51,720 We would spend hours every day talking about what he was up to - 99 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,240 for years and years and years. 100 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,800 He was becoming my new Neil Armstrong, you know? 101 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,160 We used to watch videotape of him all the time. 102 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:04,280 Oh, this is a GREAT clip! 103 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,480 One of the turning points in his rule 104 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,800 is the famous Ba'ath Party conference. 105 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,880 He basically assumes the presidency, 106 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,240 and there are a lot of people who don't like that, 107 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:30,360 and so he held this party conference to kind of get everybody in one room 108 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,280 under the pretext of having a very important statement. 109 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,920 He says, "There's been a plot," and he starts reading out 110 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,160 names of people he deems disloyal. 111 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,880 And, suddenly, everybody gets very nervous. 112 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,360 APPLAUSE 113 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,000 And at one point he even gets to a name, 114 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,160 and he says, "Mohammed..." 115 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:08,880 And then he pauses, and he says, "No, no," 116 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,760 and he crosses that out, so everybody in the auditorium 117 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,680 who's named Mohammed is like, "Oh, thank God!" You know? 118 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,240 But he subsequently has these people arrested, 119 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:18,920 imprisoned and then executed. 120 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,800 It's political theatre, and that wasn't lost on him. 121 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,400 He sees a name, and he wipes tears away. 122 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:31,680 He's showing that he is doing this 123 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,360 not because he's bloodthirsty or ruthless, 124 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,960 but he has to do this for the good of the country. 125 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:47,320 I mean, he was making a point, that "I have the power now, 126 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,440 "and you're all going to sit here until I let you go. 127 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,600 "And some of you are not going to survive, 128 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,120 "and it's me making that decision." 129 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:00,200 And I have to be honest with you, 130 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,680 I thought that maybe if we do remove him from power, 131 00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:08,680 we can create a better situation for Iraqis and we can help them. 132 00:09:08,680 --> 00:09:10,720 And, you know, I look back 133 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:14,720 on those ideas that I had, and I think they're incredibly naive. 134 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:20,440 But, at the time, I supported what George Bush was doing. 135 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,920 I still had hopes that we could turn this thing around, 136 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,520 and catching Saddam was a very important part of that hope. 137 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:31,040 We acted quickly on the intelligence, 138 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,760 but it looks like we probably missed him by about 24 hours. 139 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,160 We were getting a lot of pressure from Washington 140 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:40,880 to find Saddam Hussein. 141 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,360 And hundreds of people are involved in this. 142 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:47,600 But it was just very difficult, 143 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,120 because the Iraqis know that the CIA is in Baghdad, 144 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,840 and they also know that they're paying money for information. 145 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,080 I am today announcing a $25 million reward 146 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,960 for information leading to the capture of Saddam Hussein. 147 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,520 And so there's a lot of reporting coming in, and most of it's... 148 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:07,200 most of it's garbage. 149 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:10,960 The one that I always thought was the funniest 150 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,400 was that he was dressed as a woman and hiding in a Baghdad bus station. 151 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:24,880 It's the hardest place 152 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:26,000 I've ever tried to cover 153 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,200 as a journalist, because it was so complicated. 154 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,400 It was changing so fast. 155 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:34,520 But I thought, 156 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:36,280 partly for that reason, 157 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:40,320 because it was a place that was constantly changing, 158 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:41,680 that... 159 00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:45,640 ..the thing could work. I felt that way for a long time. 160 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,720 Dexter Filkins covered the Iraq War 161 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,760 for the New York Times from 2003 until 2010. 162 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,720 HELICOPTER OVERHEAD 163 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,600 You may NEED that helicopter sound! 164 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,240 HELICOPTER APPROACHES 165 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,440 CAR ALARM BLARES 166 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,960 There was this whole theory at the time 167 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,720 that Saddam had always planned it this way. 168 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,800 That he knew that his army would not be able to resist the Americans, 169 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:31,600 and so he had essentially... planned for a guerrilla campaign. 170 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,680 And...that he is, in fact, actually, 171 00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:41,160 not just the inspiration for the insurgency, 172 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:42,680 but he's actually running it. 173 00:11:42,680 --> 00:11:46,560 And so the idea was, if we could capture Saddam, 174 00:11:46,560 --> 00:11:48,760 then the insurgency would die. 175 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:00,120 US soldiers taking part in another predawn raid. 176 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,760 Their target - one of Saddam Hussein's bodyguards, 177 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,240 a man the US hopes could lead them to Saddam himself. 178 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,080 We killed his son in a firefight 179 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,000 right down here and around the corner. 180 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,720 They had launched RPGs - they were heavily armed. 181 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:20,960 We raided so many places. 182 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,360 Every time we get there, it's going to be a little bit late. 183 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:26,520 These guys are moving around. 184 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,920 We bring people in, they give us more information, 185 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:31,840 and we move to the next. 186 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,480 Ultimately, special forces were looking for a guy 187 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,440 named Mohammed Ibrahim Omar al-Muslit. 188 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,240 He was the chief bodyguard protecting Saddam. 189 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:49,840 This is the bodyguard, he's supposed to know where Saddam is. 190 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,320 The forces, at this moment, they're raiding the farm, 191 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,560 they're breaking doors, kicking doors. 192 00:12:55,560 --> 00:12:59,160 All that screaming, guys screaming, yelling, all that. 193 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,480 They searched the farm - nothing. 194 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,520 I was like, "Mohammed, right now, where is Saddam?" 195 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,000 He was like, "It's OK, it's OK, he's inside the bunker." 196 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,000 I was like, "Where is the bunker?" 197 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,240 He's like, "The bunker you guys stand on." 198 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,120 We start looking, it was like, "Really?" 199 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,000 "How do you get to the bunker?" 200 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,240 And he started doing this with his feet. 201 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,160 Then he just... 202 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:27,920 He was like, "You got a shovel?" 203 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,200 Wow! 204 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,600 We didn't know it was a bunker, because it is hard to see it. 205 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:38,160 It was covered with dirt. 206 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,440 It looks like a sewer. 207 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,600 I saw a hand coming out of that hole. 208 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:48,160 And we all pulled him out and... 209 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,000 ..when we pulled this man... 210 00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:54,640 ..it was like, "It's an old man." 211 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:57,600 And then I was like... 212 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:00,720 "It's him!" 213 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,240 Ladies and gentlemen, 214 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:06,960 we got him. 215 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:08,840 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 216 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,520 Iraq's future has never been more full of hope. 217 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:24,720 There is a new opportunity for the members of the former regime 218 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:26,880 to end their bitter opposition. 219 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,200 What we will see next 220 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:38,480 is a picture of Saddam Hussein at the time he was captured. 221 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,640 Nobody expected to see Saddam Hussein 222 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,520 so battered, so broken, so humiliated. 223 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,840 He looks a little beat up there. SAMIR CHUCKLES 224 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,000 He started calling me a traitor and a spy, 225 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:51,960 and I started punching him in the face. 226 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:55,440 It felt so good. 227 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,040 And then he tried to bit my hand. 228 00:14:58,040 --> 00:14:59,680 He was going to bite me. 229 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:06,840 So I grabbed from his beard, shaked him like crazy, hard as I could. 230 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:11,080 "You coward, you are nothing, you're a pussy. 231 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:15,160 "I'm going to kill you today. You're going to be my bitch today." 232 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,880 He did not like that at all! 233 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:23,960 I told him about who I am, told him about I was part of the uprising, 234 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,360 and I started kicking him, kicking and kicking... 235 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,520 Like let me take my chance, let me take my revenge. 236 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,520 And then, finally, my boss came and said, 237 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,600 "Enough, you can't do this any more." 238 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,080 I was like, you know, "Please, please, please." 239 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,280 And he said, "No, Samir, you can't do that." 240 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:45,480 Boom! 241 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:49,680 Yeah. 242 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,760 BBC NEWS THEME TUNE 243 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,920 Well, within the last hour, President Bush has said 244 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,560 Saddam would see the justice he had denied millions. 245 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,400 Good afternoon. 246 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,800 I have a message for the Iraqi people. 247 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:12,640 The goals of our coalition are the same as your goals - 248 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:14,680 sovereignty for your country, 249 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:16,760 dignity for your great culture, 250 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,600 and for every Iraqi citizen, 251 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:21,680 the opportunity for a better life. 252 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:24,000 And that's the hole. 253 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,120 I think it points to the fact 254 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,240 that Saddam wasn't pulling the levers of the resistance, 255 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:30,880 because it's not the kind of place 256 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,760 that you could direct an insurgency from. 257 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,040 Interestingly, he had quite a penchant 258 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,640 for Bounty bars and for Mars bars. 259 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,400 Now, what about the weather for the week ahead? 260 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,240 Here is Rob McElwee. Rob. Good evening. 261 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,080 So when he was captured like that, 262 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,560 like, "Ah, no, it's his double, it's not him. 263 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,880 "Impossible to be the same guy, he's invincible. 264 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:39,560 "He's like Hercules." 265 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,680 But then, no, it's him. 266 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,800 He is Saddam, but he's a person. 267 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:46,400 He's not a god. 268 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,360 16 members of Um Ibrahim's family were executed 269 00:18:35,360 --> 00:18:39,320 because one of her brothers had been accused of plotting against Saddam. 270 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:19,760 Like the vast majority of Iraqis, Um Ibrahim is a Shia Muslim. 271 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:23,120 After years of oppression, 272 00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:26,320 most Shi'ites celebrated the end of the regime. 273 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,600 But it was the minority Sunnis, 274 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,400 who made up less than 20% of the population, 275 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,800 who had always ruled in Iraq. 276 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,920 Some Sunnis saw Saddam's capture 277 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,560 as the end of centuries of their power. 278 00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:46,880 Lots of explosions that day. 279 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:53,760 And the shooting kept happening for three, four nights. 280 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,600 And it was very dangerous to go out. 281 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,920 Because people were very angry, 282 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,760 especially, I mean, the supporter for Saddam. 283 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:08,640 But then it settled down. 284 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,320 GUNFIRE 285 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,400 Washington is caught by surprise. 286 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,520 They have a live Saddam Hussein on their hands 287 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,280 and now has to figure out, "What are we going to do with him?" 288 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,040 And so it takes a couple of days, 289 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:26,920 and then eventually we find out 290 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,440 that we're going to be the ones in charge of debriefing him. 291 00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:34,120 At the end of 2003, 292 00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:36,960 John Nixon started a five-week interrogation 293 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,000 of Saddam Hussein for the CIA. 294 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:41,800 We get to a door, 295 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:43,440 and then the door opens. 296 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,280 And-And there he is. 297 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,080 The first thought that came to my mind was, 298 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,320 "Holy shit, it's Saddam, it's actually him!" 299 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:56,480 Even in his reduced state as a prisoner, 300 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:57,960 he had a sort of... 301 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,160 I don't want to sound crazy or anything, 302 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,080 but he had a certain aura around him 303 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,680 that was... You felt it. 304 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,320 And I mean, it took my breath away. 305 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,400 You know, I just said to him, you know, 306 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,920 "We're here to ask you some questions, 307 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,240 "and we want you to answer these truthfully and..." 308 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,840 And he listened, and then he just sort of leaned forward, 309 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,200 and he had this mean laugh, he just like... 310 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,080 HE CACKLES 311 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:26,880 "Let me ask you something. 312 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:28,480 "Who are you guys? 313 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,880 "What are your names? Where do you come from? 314 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:32,400 "Identify yourselves to me." 315 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,600 And he's acting like we are his guests, you know? 316 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,400 This is still his country. 317 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,760 He just had this demeanour that said, 318 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:41,920 "Well, I come here every Saturday night, 319 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,880 "and I always greet my guests this way, so..." 320 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,760 In any event, surprisingly, 321 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,440 we get very little guidance from Washington. 322 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:59,360 In early 2004, George Bush thinks that Iraq is a solved problem. 323 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,440 Mr Speaker... 324 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,520 Since we last met in this chamber, 325 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,520 the people of Iraq are free. 326 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,320 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 327 00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:28,200 Having broken the Ba'athist regime, 328 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,280 we face a remnant of violent Saddam supporters. 329 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,160 We are dealing with these thugs in Iraq 330 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,880 just as surely as we dealt with Saddam Hussein's evil regime. 331 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,800 The White House wants to know, 332 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:45,880 where is the weapons of mass destruction? 333 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,880 And it's really all they want to know. 334 00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:53,360 And he'd say, "You found a traitor to turn in Saddam Hussein. 335 00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:56,400 "Why don't you go find another traitor to turn in this WMD?" 336 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,480 And then he launched into this whole thing 337 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,960 about how he didn't have WMD, and then he just said, you know, 338 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,160 "You're being misled by your leaders, 339 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:04,800 "your leaders are terrible, you know, 340 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,000 "they are people who don't know what they're doing, 341 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,800 "and they don't know the trouble that they're causing, 342 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,320 "and they don't know the problems 343 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,160 "that they're creating for themselves. 344 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:15,680 "Your leaders are terrible. 345 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:17,480 "You people don't understand what you've done." 346 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,080 He said, "Because of what you've done, 347 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,640 "you remove Saddam Hussein from power, 348 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,960 "you know, Iraq is going to become 349 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,120 "the playing field for international terrorism. 350 00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:30,680 "You've created the conditions for more terrorism, not less." 351 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,040 Though Iraq was still governed by the coalition, 352 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,640 the intention was to hold democratic elections as soon as possible. 353 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,840 But the end of Saddam's police state meant that people 354 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,160 were already enjoying new freedoms they'd been denied for decades. 355 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,480 Under the old regime, 356 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,720 Saddam had banned religious festivals like Ashura, 357 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,880 where Shia Muslims mourn the death 358 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,040 of the grandson of the Prophet Muhammad. 359 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,240 2003 was the first time 360 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,680 the Shia had been able to celebrate Ashura in years. 361 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,600 And it was beautiful, it was amazing - and peaceful. 362 00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:07,600 2004, 363 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,160 it just went...terribly bad. 364 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,480 HE SIGHS 365 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,840 EXPLOSION ECHOES 366 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,520 SCREAMING 367 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:40,280 They were attacked by nine bombs. 368 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,040 Just a horrific attack. 369 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,600 175 people dead, hundreds wounded, bodies everywhere. 370 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,600 Bombings like that became more common later on, 371 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,000 but that was one of the... 372 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,880 ..the really, really big ones that showed 373 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,400 just how bloody and heartless 374 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,080 this thing was going to become. 375 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,800 I mean, that's when it all really fell apart. 376 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,640 EXPLOSION, SCREAMING 377 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,640 The Ashura bombings confirmed that the insurgency had evolved. 378 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,360 What had started as uncoordinated attacks 379 00:26:18,360 --> 00:26:21,160 by people loyal to the old regime 380 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,400 had grown into a complex terrorist network. 381 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:30,200 By the end of 2004, it was known as Al-Qaeda In Iraq. 382 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,840 Al-Qaeda In Iraq, which was founded by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, 383 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,360 was basically this kind of unkillable... 384 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:43,960 ..killing machine. 385 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,960 I mean, they couldn't stop it, you know? They could not stop it. 386 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,840 He was like the evil genius. Yeah. 387 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,040 Zarqawi was a Sunni extremist. 388 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,200 He had decided that because they were a minority 389 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,400 and couldn't win the elections, 390 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,280 the only way for Sunnis to regain control of Iraq 391 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:06,840 was to win a civil war. 392 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,760 SIRENS AND SHOUTING 393 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,040 SHE SOBS 394 00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:25,080 Americans got ahold of this letter 395 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,320 that Zarqawi had written to Bin Laden, 396 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,160 and it was Zarqawi saying, "We're going to start bombing 397 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:35,600 "mosques and hospitals and schools until we can provoke a backlash." 398 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,960 They wanted the Shi'ite to start killing Sunnis, 399 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,480 cos that would bring the civil war. 400 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:47,960 So, it was an incredibly dark vision, absolutely insane. 401 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:52,080 What wasn't clear was, you know, whether they could pull it off, 402 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,800 weather Al-Qaeda, in its insanity, could do this. 403 00:27:57,120 --> 00:27:58,680 But the anger was building, 404 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,240 and it was building and building and building. 405 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,160 You know, if you go out into the streets, 406 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,360 people would say, "We want to strike back." 407 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,000 The Shi'ites, by and large, wanted revenge. 408 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,840 SIRENS ECHO 409 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,840 BEEP 410 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:53,600 SHE LAUGHS 411 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,360 ELECTRICAL SYSTEM BEEPS 412 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,360 BEEP 413 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,280 BEEP 414 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:13,000 BEEP 415 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,400 Periodically, we lose electricity and the room goes dark. 416 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,560 And all of a sudden we're like... "What happened? What happened? 417 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,320 "What's going on?" 418 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,480 And meanwhile, like, Saddam never flinched. 419 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,960 It just, it didn't faze him one bit. 420 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,760 The other thing is that, when we'd be talking, 421 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,480 you could hear explosions in the background, 422 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,960 and he was fully aware that things aren't going well, 423 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:43,160 and he said, "You have to understand Iraqis, they're always plotting, 424 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,960 "and you have to keep your eyes on them 24 hours a day." 425 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,920 Saddam had his hand on the lid, basically, 426 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:52,960 and had these people suppressed... 427 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,960 ..and when we removed Saddam, we removed his hand from the lid - 428 00:31:57,960 --> 00:31:59,960 and once the lid came off, 429 00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:04,360 out of the sewer came Zarqawi and Al-Qaeda In Iraq. 430 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,680 Some people called it the republic of fear. 431 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,360 I think Saddam would have called it good government. 432 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:19,720 The year 2005 will be recorded as a turning point 433 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,320 in the history of Iraq, 434 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,200 the history of the Middle East, and the history of freedom. 435 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,760 The country's buzzing with sights and sounds of democracy in action. 436 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,400 Polling day has been marred by a wave of suicide bombings 437 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,560 and mortar attacks by insurgents. 438 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,120 It's sometimes it's difficult to reconcile the anger 439 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:48,320 among so many Sunni people and the sheer joy of Shi'ites. 440 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,840 The mood here is remarkably festive, 441 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,280 many people have come out just to celebrate. 442 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,640 Very, very happy today! Very, very happy! 443 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:56,680 SIREN WAILS 444 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:58,640 But, as expected, there were attacks. 445 00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:02,800 The Shias are certain to win the largest slice of power. 446 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,840 The Sunnis, on the other hand, will be the big losers. 447 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:10,800 The elections in 2005 448 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:15,080 not only confirmed that the Sunnis had lost control to the Shia, 449 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,520 but, for many Iraqis, the democratic process 450 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,360 highlighted sectarian differences for the first time. 451 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:28,640 Before 2003, when Saddam was controlling a dictatorship, 452 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,600 you can never find someone 453 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,040 who says that there is a difference between Iraqis. 454 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:34,440 It was very hard to. 455 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,960 What do you mean, there was a difference between Iraqis? 456 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,240 I mean, there's no difference between Iraqis. 457 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,920 Like, you can't tell who's Sunni, who's Shia, who's Christian. 458 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,080 More like one country, and one people. 459 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,720 This is the good side about that time. 460 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,400 Months of aggressive campaigning by opposing political parties 461 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,640 had helped divide Iraq into its various religious factions. 462 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,760 So they started to feed these ideas to the people. 463 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,840 Who are "they"? Who are you talking about? 464 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,200 I am talking about the politicians. 465 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,600 So, they split Iraq - literally. 466 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,640 A very well dressed, elegant-looking woman 467 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,320 looked at me with just incredible anger, 468 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,240 and she said, um... 469 00:34:40,240 --> 00:34:42,920 "You. 470 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:44,640 "You Americans. 471 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:46,600 "You destroyed our country. 472 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,400 "And you called it democracy." 473 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:58,800 So, one of the things that drove the civil war was the elections. 474 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,760 There was rumours that the Americans asked Saddam, 475 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:16,920 "How much time do you need to make the situation in Iraq better?" 476 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:18,960 He said, "I will need one hour. 477 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:23,240 "45 minutes to shave and to change my clothes, 478 00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:27,120 "and 15 minutes to say my speech on TV. 479 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:32,120 "And this is how Iraq will settle down. It will be fine." It's not... 480 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,720 He believes that it could have happened. 481 00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:40,520 He could do it. 482 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:52,240 In October 2005, Saddam and leading members of his regime 483 00:35:52,240 --> 00:35:55,280 began their trial for crimes against humanity. 484 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,800 ISSAM AL RAWI: 485 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,200 I sat there and talked to him like you and me are right now. 486 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,040 No joke, I played chess with the guy - and he beat me both times. 487 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:53,240 He beat me in three moves, 488 00:37:53,240 --> 00:37:55,480 and then I said, "You ain't going to beat me again," 489 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,560 and I'll be darned if he didn't beat me in five. 490 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,480 I don't know how the heck he did it, to this day. 491 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,520 Brandon Barfield was one of the military police 492 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,680 who guarded Saddam during his trial. 493 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,080 This is the main building that we kept him in. 494 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:13,560 As you can see, that whole building's basically destroyed. 495 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,600 We did it so nobody would think he was there. 496 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,160 There's a little concrete wall right here, 497 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,120 and that's where he'd sit, outside - 498 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,560 and this is where his plants were. 499 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,080 He'd be out there every day, 500 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,360 talking to them and watering them all the time. 501 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,560 You know, he'd always joke, cos it was a bunch of weeds and stuff. 502 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,440 Basically, we were baby-sitters. Whatever he wanted, he got. 503 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,480 Brandon's unit called themselves the Super 12. 504 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,040 Part of their job was to escort Saddam to court. 505 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,640 I remember, one day, he got right to the door 506 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,840 and he's like "I'm tired, I didn't sleep good, 507 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:52,400 "I am not going to court." 508 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,640 He said, "I want to smoke a cigar," with his buddies, 509 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:56,040 with all the rest of them on trial - 510 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,280 and I was like, "I don't know what to tell you, boss man, 511 00:38:58,280 --> 00:38:59,720 "you've to go to court." 512 00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:03,360 So, I opened the door, and he goes, "Watch this." 513 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:04,960 As soon as I opened that door, 514 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,600 man, he stepped in, he started yelling. 515 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,560 Calling the judge all kinds of names. 516 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,040 THEY SPEAK IN ARABIC 517 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:23,520 DOOR CLOSES 518 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,240 He was in there maybe three-and-a-half minutes, 519 00:39:27,240 --> 00:39:30,520 and I remember he took a deep breath and... 520 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:32,680 "I think I will have my cigar now." 521 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,680 And I was like, "Dude, this guy is running the court, man," 522 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:37,120 and I couldn't help but laugh, 523 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,280 I said, "Man, you got 'em, boss man, you got 'em." 524 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,440 So, we took him downstairs, got him the cigar, 525 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,600 and he wanted all his buddies to come down there, 526 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,200 so they cancelled court that day 527 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,680 and gave that man his cigars with all his buddies. 528 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,000 I just thought that was the craziest thing, man, 529 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,000 but, yeah, whatever he wanted, he got, man. 530 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,600 He was captured as a coward, man, 531 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,960 but you see him at the court, 532 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,840 he was screaming at the judge, yelling, 533 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:12,920 and he acted still like a president, and he's not afraid of anything. 534 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,480 He just started making himself look better. 535 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,800 Pissed me off, big time. 536 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,200 I mean, how could he get away with that? How? 537 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:27,560 I mean, he committed so many crimes against the Iraqi people, 538 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:29,760 killing thousands of innocent civilians. 539 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,440 A person like him, 540 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,840 he should not have no mercy, really. 541 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:45,920 MAN IN GALLERY: 542 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,080 How did that make you feel, when you saw those images? 543 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,760 I had a relationship at that time, I didn't care anything. 544 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,280 I didn't care about anything! 545 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,480 Tell me about the mood on the street, then. 546 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,120 Do you remember the mood of the country? 547 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,840 His... His popularity grow. 548 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,360 He lost it to zero, and then he started to gain it again - 549 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:39,880 from the court. 550 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:41,640 On the streets? On the streets. Yes. 551 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,800 The new Shia-dominated government begged for calm, 552 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,520 but coalition troops had been unable to stop the Al-Qaeda attacks 553 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:56,680 on Shi'ite civilians... 554 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:02,200 ..and now Sunnis were being targeted in retaliation. 555 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:08,560 What is it really like 556 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,280 to try to cover this war on the ground in Iraq? 557 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:12,840 It's dangerous. 558 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:14,600 All the time, everywhere, 559 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,240 and you just have to think through everything that you do 560 00:42:17,240 --> 00:42:18,680 very carefully before you do it - 561 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,080 but there's no way to do it without taking a lot of risks. 562 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:27,880 I wake up every morning and there's 15 Sunni males, 563 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:29,440 bullets in the back of the head, 564 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,280 in one of the Sunni neighbourhoods. 565 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,000 And those were the hardest neighbourhoods to go into, 566 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:37,720 because the Sunni neighbourhoods 567 00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:40,000 often had the big kind of Al-Qaeda presence. 568 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:41,200 So, it was difficult for us 569 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,640 to try and figure out, like, what's going on here - 570 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:45,880 but slowly we kind of pieced it together, 571 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,560 and what was happening was, 572 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:53,160 the kind of American-built, American-trained, 573 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:57,920 American-armed Iraqi police force and army, 574 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,240 largely Shi'ite, was, like, moving into the Sunni neighbourhoods 575 00:43:01,240 --> 00:43:03,960 and just killing Sunnis, and they were striking back. 576 00:43:06,240 --> 00:43:09,200 And so they had the uniforms on, but it would be like, 577 00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:13,640 "Tonight, after work, we're going to go into the Sunni neighbourhoods 578 00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:16,680 "out west and we're going to, like, take down some guys. 579 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:20,960 "We're going to set up some checkpoints, 580 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:26,080 "we're going to pull everybody over and look at their ID card, 581 00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,960 "and if you see a Sunni name, like Omar, 582 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:31,720 "that's a Sunni... 583 00:43:31,720 --> 00:43:33,400 "..give it to 'em." 584 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:44,600 We were carrying two IDs - one for the Sunni checkpoint 585 00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:46,800 and the other for the Shia checkpoint. 586 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:49,400 It's different - 587 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,040 the names, the tribe, the province, everything. 588 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,000 Lots of people got killed, and they are Sunni, 589 00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:56,920 they were killed by Sunni checkpoint, 590 00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,240 because they pulled the wrong ID. 591 00:43:59,240 --> 00:44:01,080 And they were like, "No, no, no, we are Sunni, 592 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:02,680 "but we are faking we are Shia." 593 00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:03,960 Shhh! They were killed. 594 00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,680 As the sectarian violence in Baghdad intensified, 595 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:15,560 millions fled the capital. 596 00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:20,840 I don't want to call it an exodus, 597 00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,240 but we have come across quite a few people leaving for good. 598 00:44:23,240 --> 00:44:27,240 Mostly people with money. Er, the poor can't really afford to do it. 599 00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:30,160 I have noticed a lot of doctors and guys like that doing it. 600 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:33,480 So, I told my family to leave Iraq - 601 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,640 repeatedly told them, "Go to Syria, like everyone else. 602 00:44:37,720 --> 00:44:39,520 Just go to Syria and live there. 603 00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,720 They refused. Why? 604 00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:44,080 I don't know, they say, "No, this is our country, 605 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,640 "this is the city that we have to be here..." 606 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,200 All this bullshit. 607 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:44,920 How's it look on the left side? 608 00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,840 And still the civil war didn't start yet. 609 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,640 It was only a chaos before the war. 610 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,960 When would you say the civil war began, then? 611 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,640 The civil war began 2006, 612 00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:06,720 beginning of 2006. 613 00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:18,320 The event that finally pushed Iraq into a civil war 614 00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,320 was the bombing of one of the Shia's holiest shrines. 615 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,360 Every hour that passes here brings yet more violence. 616 00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,960 We are now hearing about a massacre on the outskirts of Baghdad - 617 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:36,560 but that's just one of many, many incidents. 618 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,000 And, Jonathan, in terms of the military response, 619 00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,080 what are the British and American troops doing? 620 00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,720 The Americans have told all of their troops here in Baghdad 621 00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:46,440 and the surrounding regions that they should not travel - 622 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,400 they should stay in their barracks unless absolutely necessary. 623 00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,360 And it's the same in the south. 624 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,120 We've had no reports of British troops 625 00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:54,960 trying to calm the situation down. 626 00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,040 It was like the worst thing ever happened to Iraq, 627 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:04,920 because normal civilians fighting normal civilians and for no reason. 628 00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:08,680 They were just like, "Let's go, let's fight." 629 00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,840 Just because they are Sunni and they are Shia and that's it. 630 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:22,320 I was ready to die. 631 00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,280 Everyone in Iraq was ready to die. 632 00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:29,120 He knows that he could die any minute - 633 00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:32,080 random bullets, explosion, 634 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:35,920 American convoy - anything in the street could kill you. 635 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:45,920 It was like hell in Iraq. 636 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,480 I don't think there is a family... and they didn't lose anyone. 637 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,400 Everyone was losing everyone. 638 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,480 Can you tell me what happened to your brother? 639 00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:11,680 Shit. 640 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:14,720 Do I have to?! 641 00:48:14,720 --> 00:48:16,560 Of course you don't have to. 642 00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,640 It's, er... I hate that moment. 643 00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:30,200 My brother was, er...he... 644 00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,680 He was killed in a very brutal way. 645 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,800 The mortar shell fell right on his head. 646 00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:48,640 And he was... He became pieces. Literally. 647 00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:51,600 I saw the pieces. 648 00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:58,360 And we collected the pieces to make a body, 649 00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,720 so my mum thinks that there's a human. 650 00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,840 But there wasn't...a human. 651 00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:11,760 I don't want to talk about it, please. 652 00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:50,440 One day, when I was talking to Saddam 653 00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:52,160 he said, "I know where this is headed. 654 00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,080 "I know I'm never getting out of here, 655 00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:56,520 "and I know that this is going to lead to my death," 656 00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:59,560 but he said, "I am at peace with my God, 657 00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:03,280 "and everything that I did, I did for the Iraqi people," 658 00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,440 and, er, basically, "I am OK with that." 659 00:50:58,240 --> 00:51:00,480 Sergeant Coleman called me to the office, 660 00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:02,560 like, "Hey, he's going to be hung now," 661 00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:06,080 and I was like, "Er, how are we going to tell him that?" 662 00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,160 And he said, "Well, I'm just going to go in there, 663 00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:09,720 "you wake him up and I'll tell him." 664 00:51:09,720 --> 00:51:11,800 So me and him were standing next to the cell 665 00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:16,160 when Sergeant Coleman, the only thing he said was, "Sir, it's time." 666 00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:20,120 And so he, literally, he threw the covers off, 667 00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:21,960 and he goes, "I am ready." 668 00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:23,480 And that was it. 669 00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,000 That's the Rhino right here. 670 00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:29,240 Is that the vehicle that took Saddam to the gallows? 671 00:51:29,240 --> 00:51:31,080 Yes, the exact same one. 672 00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:38,920 He shook my hand and told me I was a good soldier, 673 00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:42,640 and then he gave me some money with his picture on it. 674 00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:44,280 He gave everybody the same thing. 675 00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:46,040 And then he got to the front of the bus 676 00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,880 and he started crying and said bye to everybody - 677 00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:52,560 but he didn't bawl, you know, you could tell he was crying, 678 00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,160 he wiped his eyes and he... 679 00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,800 ..you know held his hand up and waved bye to everybody 680 00:51:57,800 --> 00:51:59,640 and then said bye and got off the bus. 681 00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:08,120 He was upset because he was being hung and being treated as a traitor. 682 00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:10,600 He said that was a coward's way to go out. 683 00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,080 He wanted to be killed by a firing squad, 684 00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:15,920 cos that's the way he said soldiers were supposed to die. 685 00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:23,080 And, er, he had his wife's scarf on that she made him. 686 00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:24,680 He refused to take it off, 687 00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,720 because that was his way of his wife being with him. 688 00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:32,320 He used to talk about her all the time. 689 00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,080 He knew exactly what was going to happen. 690 00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,160 He knew exactly, this was how it would be. 691 00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:58,080 It would end with him being surrounded by his enemies 692 00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:00,520 being taunted and, er... 693 00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:02,720 It shouldn't have been like that. 694 00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,880 And, to me, when I saw this happen, 695 00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,600 I said this is the final justification 696 00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:13,680 for the war that has now been pulled out. 697 00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,280 We went there to create a new Iraq. 698 00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,960 At least we were going to create rule of law, 699 00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,160 and that things would be different - 700 00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,600 but instead I saw this hanging in the middle of the night, 701 00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:29,960 and rather than rule of law, it's just mob justice. 702 00:53:31,720 --> 00:53:34,640 And it was at that point in time 703 00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:38,000 that I began to really feel complicit 704 00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,560 in a...in an almost criminal action, 705 00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:45,680 um, and I began to come to the belief that we shouldn't be there, 706 00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:48,200 and that we had no reason to be there, 707 00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,640 and everything we do makes the situation worse. 708 00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,680 This is a country that's been brutalised, you know, 709 00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:05,840 brutalised in every way for decades. 710 00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,440 A lot of people were happy the way it was done. 711 00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,040 They wanted that. 712 00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:14,840 No dignity, no ceremony - kill him, do it. 713 00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:16,760 CROWD CHANTS 714 00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:22,640 But, for that moment of satisfaction that they all got, 715 00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:24,520 you know, it was self-defeating. 716 00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:34,840 The way that he was executed was so ghastly 717 00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:40,320 that it achieved the kind of remarkable effect 718 00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:45,040 of turning that monster into, in many people's eyes, a martyr. 719 00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:58,440 I didn't want to stay in the house where my brother got killed. 720 00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:03,720 I couldn't, because I think my family - it's their fault. 721 00:57:03,720 --> 00:57:05,840 I told them to leave Iraq, and they didn't. 722 00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:09,480 After that they said, "Oh, now we should go to Syria." 723 00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:10,920 No, it's too late. 724 00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:15,480 So, I couldn't, I couldn't see them. 725 00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:18,920 So I left to my uncle's house in Ramadi, 726 00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:21,640 and I lived there for two years. With my uncle. 727 00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,960 In Ramadi, Al-Qaeda were controlling the streets. 728 00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:35,680 They control every detail in your life. 729 00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,520 Of course, women are not allowed to do anything, 730 00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:40,680 except sitting in the houses. 731 00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:43,240 They make you watch people got killed, 732 00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:45,000 while they're killing, 733 00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:47,040 and they terrify you all the day - 734 00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:51,200 everything you can imagine, they did. 735 00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:54,640 But at least in Anbar, Ramadi, I know I have one enemy - 736 00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:56,400 it's Al-Qaeda. 737 00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:58,440 In Baghdad there is one thousand - 738 00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:00,880 I don't know who's want to kill me and why, 739 00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:02,640 but in Ramadi, there is Al-Qaeda, 740 00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:05,480 I just, I have to hide from them, and that's it. 741 00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:10,920 And then Isis came. 742 00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:36,560 The only choice you have 743 00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:40,640 is either to be a victim or to be the killer. 744 00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:44,040 We have won against Isis. 745 00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:48,240 We've beaten them, and we've beaten them badly.