1 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:35,720 ‎從廢墟中崛起 2 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:40,920 ‎共同眺望未來 3 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:45,720 ‎我們願意效命 4 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:51,600 ‎德國,我們的祖國 5 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:56,240 ‎戰勝過去陰霾 6 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:00,760 ‎團結一致獲得勝利 7 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:05,880 ‎實現美好將來 8 00:01:05,960 --> 00:01:10,480 ‎替我們的德國爭光 9 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:15,000 ‎燦爛的陽光 10 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:22,000 ‎燦爛的陽光 11 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:35,080 ‎(毒瘤史塔西) 12 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:40,320 ‎史塔西滾出去! 13 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:58,280 ‎我們想不到東德會滅亡 14 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,000 ‎出乎我們意料之外 15 00:02:08,640 --> 00:02:10,480 ‎我事後才意識到滅亡的可能性 16 00:02:37,640 --> 00:02:39,360 ‎媒體聲稱 17 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:44,360 ‎紅軍派預謀刺殺託管局局長羅威德 18 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,480 ‎不過細看犯罪手法、犯罪過程 19 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,280 ‎加上意識形態背景 ‎這個假設似乎是錯的 20 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,120 ‎另一方面,種種證據指出 21 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,960 ‎策劃和執行謀殺案的幕後黑手 22 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,720 ‎可能是東德國家安全部餘黨 23 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,200 ‎俗稱史塔西,當時仍在運作 24 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,720 ‎在羅威德命案中 ‎我只看到一種可能性 25 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:43,240 ‎我認為兇手是來自前東德 26 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,000 ‎心懷不滿的人 27 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:47,840 ‎我敢打包票 28 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:58,560 ‎這些人一定受過嚴謹的軍事訓練 29 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,880 ‎包括狙擊手訓練 30 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,600 ‎我認為這是一起報復殺人案 31 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,400 ‎有可能嗎?還是很荒謬? 32 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:26,600 ‎史塔西是十惡不赦的組織 33 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:40,200 ‎(德國) 34 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:45,600 ‎NETFLIX 原創紀錄片系列 35 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,280 ‎德意志國 36 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:51,960 ‎沒有人想要建造一堵牆! 37 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,680 ‎西德與東德,分裂的國家 38 00:04:54,760 --> 00:05:01,680 ‎統一、正義和自由… 39 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:02,920 ‎紅軍派 40 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,560 ‎…野蠻的恐怖份子瘋狂攻擊 41 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,320 ‎德意志祖國 42 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,560 ‎從廢墟中崛起 43 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,000 ‎推倒這堵牆! 44 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:16,800 ‎祖國統一 45 00:05:18,280 --> 00:05:25,080 ‎綻放,我們的德意志祖國 46 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,960 ‎劇名:佔據者 47 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,200 ‎你對羅威德先生遇害有什麼想法? 48 00:05:36,280 --> 00:05:38,760 ‎是嗎?我現在才知道 49 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,000 ‎今天還沒看新聞 50 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:43,760 ‎-妳沒聽說嗎? ‎-沒有 51 00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:46,360 ‎他是託管局局長,妳知道… 52 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:47,560 ‎這樣啊… 53 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:49,680 ‎他們想必有苦衷 54 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:52,120 ‎不能怪他們 55 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,920 ‎如果我有機會動手,我會除掉更多人 56 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,400 ‎我們從來沒過得這麼悽慘! 57 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,920 ‎我的看法是西德政府早就該知道 58 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,120 ‎他們不能這樣亂搞政策 59 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,720 ‎或許這能讓他們知道新納入的五個邦 60 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:09,600 ‎是一顆未爆彈 61 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,800 ‎一定會爆發事件,誰都看得出來 62 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:20,680 ‎我懷疑這是否真的像新聞說的那樣 63 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:22,360 ‎是紅軍派所為 64 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,680 ‎我不知道,有可能是史塔西的人做的 65 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:30,920 ‎我很肯定 66 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:36,120 ‎這不只是瘋狂份子,或是對政治… 67 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,720 ‎(東德內政部長,彼得米凱迪斯特) 68 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,120 ‎…不負責任的一群人,例如紅軍派 69 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:46,160 ‎我覺得狄列夫羅威德命案 70 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,080 ‎是經濟因素所致 71 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:53,080 ‎因為他做出的決定和負責的政策 72 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,240 ‎柏林市中心有一棟辦公大樓極為重要 73 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,120 ‎是西方的富裕投資者 74 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:03,480 ‎想投資東德的必訪之地 75 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,080 ‎我們正在協商收購一家公司 76 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:09,960 ‎你來做什麼? 77 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,200 ‎-做什麼?我們要收購公司 ‎-哪一間? 78 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,720 ‎我不必告訴你,我不想在鏡頭前說 79 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:16,400 ‎我只是來看看 80 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,600 ‎-看什麼? ‎-來看看有什麼東西 81 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:22,120 ‎-你不會沒理由過來 ‎-為什麼不行?我來找老朋友 82 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,840 ‎我親身經歷過託管局,我見過… 83 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,920 ‎人們大排長龍 84 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,360 ‎想要投資某家公司 85 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,880 ‎商人來到這裡,滿腦子想著 86 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,120 ‎“真是划算 87 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,760 ‎我可以買到一間設備完善的公司 88 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:48,120 ‎只要花1歐元” 89 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,360 ‎我說得太誇張了 90 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,040 ‎但人們普遍的印象是 91 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:55,600 ‎“佔據者來了 92 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,800 ‎分拆所有的公司… 93 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:01,200 ‎(託管局) 94 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,200 ‎…拋價出售以賺得快速獲利” 95 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,080 ‎我不知道該怎麼稱呼那些人… 96 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,480 ‎他們發現有利可圖便蜂擁而上 97 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:22,680 ‎他們如同蝗蟲過境一般入侵我們國家 98 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:24,400 ‎而且… 99 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,320 ‎他們不只加劇當時的混亂 100 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:33,600 ‎他們也讓人民悽慘的日子越來越糟 101 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,040 ‎令人不得不… 102 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:40,200 ‎開始思索 103 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:44,520 ‎“你們真的是我們的兄弟姊妹嗎?” 104 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,520 ‎在現今的階段 105 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,480 ‎企業以及整個經濟體系 106 00:08:56,560 --> 00:08:59,760 ‎必須收拾社會主義留下來的攤子 ‎我們要撐下去 107 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,320 ‎我們越快面對危機 108 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,920 ‎及早發現及早治療 ‎我們能越快能走出危機 109 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:13,200 ‎狄列夫羅威德是當時最有權力的 ‎德國商業大亨 110 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:14,560 ‎在商場上叱吒風雲 111 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:19,280 ‎我能想像有些人不喜歡他的決策 112 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:21,080 ‎感覺有點像美國的蠻荒西部 113 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:25,240 ‎有些人對託管局的態度傲慢無禮 114 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,800 ‎這在西德是不可能的事 115 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,360 ‎當然,私有化的政策 116 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,280 ‎和託管局一樣咄咄逼人 117 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,280 ‎總是有贊同與反對的聲潮 118 00:09:37,560 --> 00:09:41,600 ‎回想起1991年春天 119 00:09:41,680 --> 00:09:43,640 ‎(羅威德助理,彼得巴赫萊諾) 120 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,680 ‎似乎所有人都討厭羅威德 121 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:53,440 ‎我們開始思考 ‎“我們在這裡安全嗎?” 122 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,480 ‎我們已經屢次收到威脅 123 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:02,240 ‎我們住在大飯店 124 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,120 ‎早上離開飯店 125 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:10,600 ‎走路到託管局大樓上班 126 00:10:10,680 --> 00:10:14,000 ‎街道對面是所謂的“民主之家” 127 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:18,120 ‎他說:“如果有人想殺我 128 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,640 ‎他從那裡動手就不會被抓到 129 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:25,480 ‎我們不能控制那邊的人員出入” 130 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:30,360 ‎好… 131 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:32,160 ‎請你… 132 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:52,000 ‎我們通電話時,羅威德夫人總說 133 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:54,600 ‎一定是史塔西在背後指使 134 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,800 ‎因為那些人對於 135 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,680 ‎她丈夫解散東德感到不滿 136 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,360 ‎他在工作時發現蛛絲馬跡 137 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,960 ‎史塔西可能藏了一筆錢 138 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,360 ‎數百萬元憑空消失 139 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:20,120 ‎史塔西擔心他會找到藏錢的地方 140 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:24,840 ‎這些電報 141 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,760 ‎我傳給邦刑事調查局 142 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,200 ‎邦安全部門 143 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:42,840 ‎有力的證據顯示 144 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:47,200 ‎新形態恐怖主義正在興起 145 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:51,200 ‎紅軍派相較之下相形見絀 146 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,240 ‎他們的人數不只遠遠超過紅軍派 147 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,440 ‎前史塔西成員更是專業人員 148 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,920 ‎在培訓、通訊、財經 149 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,800 ‎物流、內情和經驗方面訓練有素 150 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:08,960 ‎而且他們會盲目服從命令 151 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,280 ‎薩克森安哈特保安隊長 152 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:13,960 ‎克勞思狄特麥屈可敬上 153 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,000 ‎是的,那些話 154 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,120 ‎確實是我發出去的 155 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,680 ‎能得到好處的是那些 156 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,680 ‎相信大舉出售公司 157 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,880 ‎國家徹底瓦解 158 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,640 ‎都能因他的死而結束的人 159 00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:37,120 ‎我是克勞思狄特麥屈可 160 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,400 ‎我原先在聯邦情報局服務 161 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,240 ‎後來進入聯邦憲法保衛局 162 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,600 ‎接著被派到東德 163 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,040 ‎在當地調查 164 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,680 ‎兩德統一前替史塔西工作的人 165 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,480 ‎他們在史塔西的職責是什麼? 166 00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:03,280 ‎我的任務是將所有調查結果 167 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,400 ‎直接呈報給邦總理 168 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,080 ‎我認識了 169 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:15,160 ‎幾位前史塔西將軍 170 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,160 ‎我們經常聚在一起 171 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,760 ‎也會一起喝酒 172 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:26,000 ‎如果我需要某項資訊 173 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:30,520 ‎我只要隨便問一個人,就能得到答案 174 00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:35,960 ‎我問了那些將軍羅威德命案的事 175 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,360 ‎他們都有相同的結論 176 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,600 ‎這場謀殺案可能是他們的人做的 177 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,800 ‎我的名字叫艾伯哈特柏契爾 178 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,720 ‎我曾在國家安全部工作 179 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,440 ‎最後服務的部門是第二十二總司 180 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:07,200 ‎擔任第一部門主任,我的位階是中校 181 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,400 ‎我之所以加入史塔西 182 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,800 ‎是因為我希望能避免另一場戰爭爆發 183 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:17,960 ‎我親身經歷過二戰 184 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:23,360 ‎家鄉普勞恩有八成被炸彈夷為平地 185 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,560 ‎建築物幾乎全被摧毀殆盡 186 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,920 ‎我懂得躲在地下室,害怕死亡的滋味 187 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,720 ‎這個經驗伴隨著我,塑造我的人格 188 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,040 ‎不要再打仗了! 189 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,840 ‎(東德青年向全世界青年問好) 190 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,760 ‎蘇聯友誼! 191 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:08,440 ‎東德是反法西斯主義的聯邦 192 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,400 ‎要知道 193 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,200 ‎那些想要逃過一劫 194 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:24,760 ‎不想落入蘇聯手中的納粹 195 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,000 ‎逃到德國西部 196 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,080 ‎因此德國西部 197 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,840 ‎到處都是各式各樣的納粹 198 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,240 ‎同一批人 199 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,360 ‎在命案發生前幾年也想殺我 200 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:48,560 ‎因為我是猶太人 201 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,600 ‎(無名墓) 202 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,960 ‎如果回顧我國可怕的歷史 203 00:15:56,040 --> 00:16:00,800 ‎大屠殺、二戰造成的破壞 204 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,160 ‎駭人聽聞的事蹟 205 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:06,360 ‎德國替鄰近歐洲國家與蘇聯 ‎帶來諸多不幸 206 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:07,640 ‎考慮到這一切 207 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,840 ‎我們不配得到兩德統一這種恩惠 208 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:15,400 ‎雖然一點也不配,我們做到了 209 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:25,120 ‎從經濟層面來看,東德必然會崩潰 210 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,000 ‎但我沒料到從社會層面來看卻不盡然 211 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,280 ‎我們之中也有人叛變 212 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:37,680 ‎人們很容易受到影響 213 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:42,040 ‎有些人被嚇壞了,出於恐懼 214 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:43,000 ‎什麼事都能做 215 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:50,240 ‎我們曾希望社會主義復興 216 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:52,800 ‎我們期盼著這一天到來 217 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:55,440 ‎但最後的結果呢? 218 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:59,480 ‎戈巴契夫親自下令徹底解體 219 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:04,440 ‎戈比! 220 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,080 ‎蘇聯深陷經濟危機 221 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:13,240 ‎1989年夏天 222 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:14,800 ‎(財政部長,西奧魏格爾) 223 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:16,880 ‎海爾穆柯爾要求我 224 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,160 ‎提供蘇聯,也就是戈巴契夫 225 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:25,240 ‎五十億馬克的援助貸款 226 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:31,960 ‎因為戈巴契夫遇到棘手的財務危機 227 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:38,040 ‎正常情況下,我批准的貸款 228 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,120 ‎一定是我有九成把握能收得回來的 229 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,120 ‎但我有九成把握 230 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,280 ‎這筆錢收不回來 231 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,880 ‎我們繞過金融法規定 232 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:57,200 ‎這是建立信任的重要舉動 233 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:58,760 ‎向戈巴契夫表明 234 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,640 ‎他可以相信海爾穆柯爾和他的政府 235 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:12,480 ‎總書記先生 236 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:17,440 ‎請您按下機器左邊的按鈕 237 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:23,240 ‎您會看到今日貴賓的照片,就是您 238 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,520 ‎總書記先生,我們想要對您說 239 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:39,320 ‎感謝您快速與積極的政治改革 240 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,760 ‎我們想改變他們的態度 241 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,120 ‎蘇聯開始評估 242 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,160 ‎“說不定我們可以 243 00:18:55,640 --> 00:19:00,160 ‎與統一的德國交好 244 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,560 ‎而不是與西德為敵” 245 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:06,960 ‎莫斯科舉辦德國蘇聯高峰會 246 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,160 ‎總理柯爾和蘇聯最高領導人戈巴契夫 247 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,200 ‎私下交談了四個小時 248 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,320 ‎蘇聯領導人十分感動 249 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,320 ‎海爾穆柯爾造訪莫斯科 250 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,080 ‎提供慷慨的經濟援助 251 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,640 ‎我和戈巴契夫達成協議 252 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,760 ‎德國本身應該有權利 253 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:28,920 ‎自行決定 254 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,520 ‎是否與另一個國家合併 255 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:35,880 ‎那麼… 256 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,000 ‎我們握個手吧 257 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:43,160 ‎今天很成功,我們非常驕傲 258 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,520 ‎我們現在能慶祝了,要喝得不醉不歸 259 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:51,840 ‎東德在西德的影響下 260 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:54,400 ‎必定得滅亡 261 00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:57,320 ‎因為東德失去了同盟 262 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:58,640 ‎這是不爭的事實 263 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:00,120 ‎你們拿到酒了嗎? 264 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:01,280 ‎-是的! ‎-是的! 265 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:02,920 ‎敬德國! 266 00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:11,680 ‎由於戈巴契夫的背叛 267 00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:15,040 ‎我們的國家滅亡了 268 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:18,880 ‎我的世界瓦解了 269 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,120 ‎我整天抑鬱寡歡 270 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,800 ‎我的工作沒了,我們必須解散 271 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,400 ‎史塔西最後一名員工 272 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,640 ‎今天最後一次離開工作崗位 273 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:35,640 ‎負責的警員告訴我 274 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,640 ‎我們要收回武器,放進倉庫 275 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:44,120 ‎他們也要將之前穿的制服繳回國庫 276 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,720 ‎我們不想被認出是前史塔西成員 277 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,800 ‎報紙和電視等負面輿論 278 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,080 ‎導致人心惶惶 279 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,520 ‎甚至有人提議 280 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:03,600 ‎將我們歸類為犯罪組織 281 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,880 ‎(打倒史塔西!) 282 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,040 ‎環境部部長卡爾荷曼史坦堡 283 00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:13,480 ‎曾經是史塔西臥底線人 284 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:15,720 ‎部長,你對這項指控有什麼看法? 285 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,120 ‎我堅決否認費雪先生的指控 286 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:20,520 ‎(經濟部部長) 287 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:22,800 ‎我們想問幾個問題 288 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,680 ‎瞭解你在國家安全部的工作 289 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:27,000 ‎你們是從哪聽來的? 290 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,360 ‎-可以問… ‎-不行,不要再拍了 291 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:32,240 ‎我們要找彼爾耐先生 292 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,160 ‎我就是 293 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:35,360 ‎-是嗎? ‎-是的 294 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,800 ‎-可以不要拍了嗎? ‎-你是史塔西官員嗎? 295 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,760 ‎-不是,可以不要拍了嗎? ‎-你曾是史塔西官員嗎? 296 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:42,600 ‎有文件記載 297 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:44,680 ‎你是特殊單位的軍官 298 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:45,680 ‎沒錯 299 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,120 ‎-是嗎? ‎-過去曾是 300 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:50,480 ‎你過去擔任特殊單位的軍官嗎? 301 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:51,400 ‎是的 302 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:53,960 ‎-你願意公開承認? ‎-是的 303 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:56,160 ‎為什麼要否認? 304 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:01,040 ‎羅威德先生 ‎你能除掉舊統一社會黨人脈 305 00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:04,040 ‎確保工作順利進行嗎? 306 00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:06,800 ‎羅希先生,如果你指的是史塔西成員 307 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,320 ‎託管局內沒有 308 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:10,840 ‎一個也沒有 309 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,880 ‎我不會擔任這種組織的領導者 310 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:22,280 ‎許多人無故被解雇 311 00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:25,560 ‎畢生的功勞得不到認可 312 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,200 ‎那樣很不公平 313 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:35,400 ‎眼看他們被自稱歷史勝利者的人開除 314 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,640 ‎我心中很難受 315 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:39,120 ‎畢竟本來就沒有一方勝利 316 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,040 ‎認真說起來,獲得勝利的是我們東德 317 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,960 ‎一夕之間,他們成了無名小卒 318 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,240 ‎今日是將軍,明日在街頭乞討 319 00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:57,120 ‎此舉為前武裝部隊人員 320 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,680 ‎帶來嚴重的負面影響 321 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:02,680 ‎受影響的不只史塔西 322 00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:11,720 ‎大家必須明白前史塔西成員的憤怒 323 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:16,200 ‎委婉地說,失去社會地位是一場災難 324 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:25,520 ‎前高階指揮官不是被開除、失業 325 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,600 ‎就是在社會底層做低階的工作 326 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,440 ‎貶低他們的能力 327 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,320 ‎這些全是自願放棄權力的人 328 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:42,840 ‎他們只想在新的民主制度中 ‎找到一席之地 329 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,480 ‎當然,不排除有極端的瘋狂份子 330 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,560 ‎史塔西有10萬名全職員工 331 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,000 ‎或許有人懷恨在心 332 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:17,720 ‎致人於死地的報復式攻擊? 333 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:19,600 ‎難以想像 334 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,440 ‎不過這是有可能的 335 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:26,320 ‎畢竟我們有武器 336 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,840 ‎要是接到去某地動用武器的命令 337 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,400 ‎我當然會從命 338 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,600 ‎但我不知道我是否真的會開槍 339 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:53,520 ‎老實說,我沒特別關注這個人被射殺 340 00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:55,520 ‎對我來說毫無意義 341 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,160 ‎我有更重要的事要處理 ‎像是重新振作起來 342 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:00,600 ‎賺錢養家餬口 343 00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:05,680 ‎我很幸運能遇到一間保全公司的老闆 344 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:07,720 ‎他馬上雇用我 345 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:11,640 ‎但感覺仍像是 346 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,840 ‎從高高在上的醫院院長 347 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,520 ‎降職成搬運工人 348 00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:28,640 ‎我們當時雇用了許多 349 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,760 ‎東德特種部隊的人 350 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:38,600 ‎在杜塞道夫和埃森地區約有30名員工 351 00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:40,640 ‎負責不同的崗位 352 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,560 ‎我們很慶幸能請到他們 ‎他們懂得操作武器 353 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,440 ‎熟悉軍事心態,清楚如何站崗 354 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,880 ‎如何巡邏和保護客戶 355 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,560 ‎所以我們優先錄取他們 ‎這沒有任何道德疑慮 356 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,840 ‎畢竟我們無法對他們做身家調查 357 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,160 ‎四家私人保全公司 358 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,960 ‎駐紮在杜塞道夫的凱薩腓特烈大道 ‎高級住宅區周遭 359 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,200 ‎他們之中有害群之馬 360 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,160 ‎窺探羅威德家嗎? 361 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,920 ‎否則槍手如何得知 362 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,720 ‎羅威德家中二樓書房的窗戶 363 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,600 ‎沒有防彈功能? 364 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,160 ‎守衛能打聽到很多消息 365 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,720 ‎我也不排除是有人下班後 366 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,040 ‎與別人討論工作 367 00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:39,440 ‎他們提到:“看那棟房子! ‎他一定很有錢 368 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,400 ‎他請了什麼樣的保全?” 369 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,720 ‎進而透露出他的私人保全 370 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,560 ‎還有警察巡邏的細節 371 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,160 ‎種種理論其實都有可能性 372 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:53,680 ‎直到今天我仍想知道 373 00:26:55,120 --> 00:27:01,080 ‎到底是誰密謀暗殺我的前老闆? 374 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,240 ‎我先前在託管局時 375 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:11,440 ‎對史塔西有一些初步的瞭解 376 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,320 ‎不過調查史塔西的結構與不當行為 377 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,440 ‎不是我們首要關心的問題 378 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,680 ‎我們負責管理財富 379 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,520 ‎近來發生了許多不體面的事 380 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:29,240 ‎我覺得將這幾個月以來的過錯 381 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,080 ‎全怪到副警長身上 382 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,120 ‎其實有失公允 383 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,680 ‎羅威德先生得做出不尋常的決定 384 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,720 ‎有些人並不認同 385 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,520 ‎假如那些不滿意的人之中有一名壞人 386 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,440 ‎他想用武器維護他的利益 387 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,840 ‎這很有可能是他遇害的原因之一 388 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:59,080 ‎(遇害前4週) 389 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:03,560 ‎我們在1991年三月討論過 390 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,880 ‎聘請審計員 391 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,120 ‎進行分析並找出 392 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,080 ‎是否有我們要注意的隱藏資產 393 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:17,080 ‎我是科特席曼 394 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:19,840 ‎出生於柏林 395 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:21,960 ‎我學過國際貿易 396 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,360 ‎曾任職於東德外貿部門 397 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:29,560 ‎後來被派去一家名為IMES的 ‎國際貿易公司 398 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:34,960 ‎他們的業務 399 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,560 ‎主要是販賣 400 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,400 ‎武器和彈藥 401 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,040 ‎最熱銷的武器是AK-47 402 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,520 ‎我們銷售到哪裡? 403 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:55,800 ‎非洲 404 00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:58,760 ‎南美洲 405 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:07,000 ‎IMES隸屬於“貿協” 406 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,880 ‎全名是貿易協調部 407 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,480 ‎這裡累積了許多人脈 408 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:19,400 ‎通常是從事一般生意 409 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,840 ‎替東德賺取外匯 410 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:29,120 ‎所以這些生意不能用東德馬克交易 411 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:35,160 ‎不過他們也有一些為人詬病的舉動 412 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,280 ‎以及非法的交易,比如緊急呼籲民眾 413 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,080 ‎捐血幫助羅馬尼亞大地震受難者 414 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,840 ‎但那些血卻被賣到慕尼黑的紅十字會 415 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,600 ‎醫療器材、藝術品 416 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:54,760 ‎武器和彈藥… 417 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:57,960 ‎交易的種類範圍很廣 418 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:02,560 ‎他們的資金從何而來、有多少資金 419 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:04,600 ‎在柏林圍牆倒塌後才真相大白 420 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:09,480 ‎提供的武器有眾所皆知的AK-47 421 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,800 ‎和其專用彈藥 422 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,240 ‎交易武器… 423 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,520 ‎從商業的角度看來 424 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:22,480 ‎只要能賺錢都行 425 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,000 ‎交易的貨物不重要 426 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,360 ‎無論是鈕釦或大型機械 427 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:32,640 ‎毫無疑問 428 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:39,240 ‎這是將資本主義發揮地淋漓盡致 ‎相當有條理的部門 429 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:45,720 ‎部門的主管是 ‎亞歷山大夏克葛羅科斯基 430 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:56,840 ‎如果有貪污、詐欺、舞弊的情形 431 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,640 ‎要由別的單位負責調查,不是我們 432 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,120 ‎但我們會從旁協助 433 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,200 ‎釐清夏克葛羅科斯基案情的真相 434 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:11,760 ‎我們會盡力幫忙 435 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,280 ‎但這個案情非同小可 436 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,920 ‎這是他難得在公眾場合露面的畫面 437 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,480 ‎夏克是東西方最重要的協調人之一 438 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:28,600 ‎他們為什麼沒有追查 439 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,240 ‎消失的數百萬元? 440 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,840 ‎難道有人特意 441 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,040 ‎拖延調查進度? 442 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:40,120 ‎(通緝夏克) 443 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,360 ‎警方正在搜查貿易協調部 444 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,840 ‎前國務秘書亞歷山大夏克葛羅科斯基 445 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,400 ‎商業界專家夏克葛羅科斯基 ‎昨天到波昂演講 446 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,360 ‎如今涉嫌濫用職權和挪用公款 447 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:56,440 ‎(尋找國務秘書) 448 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,400 ‎夏克葛羅科斯基博士正在逃亡 449 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,800 ‎他們讓他坐飛機到 ‎位於慕尼黑的聯邦情報局 450 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:10,240 ‎我們不禁想問 ‎“他能如此輕易地脫身嗎?” 451 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:11,720 ‎(夏克葛羅科斯基,一審) 452 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,960 ‎東德外匯專員 ‎夏克葛羅科斯基的一審判決聽證會 453 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,000 ‎今日在柏林地方法院舉行 454 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,600 ‎他好像被判緩刑18個月 455 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:25,160 ‎他一定暗自竊笑 456 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,240 ‎我記得我們還提起另一場訴訟 457 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,720 ‎但聽證會必須延期 458 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,040 ‎因為被告 459 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,200 ‎正坐在德國政府的專機飛往中國 460 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,600 ‎擔任與東方進行貿易的顧問 461 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:45,960 ‎我們頓時明白 ‎不能對檢察官抱持太大期望 462 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,400 ‎有人存心想保護他 463 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:50,320 ‎(駁回指控) 464 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,520 ‎內政部長蕭伯勒今天駁斥 ‎《亮點》周刊報導 465 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,040 ‎據報導指出 ‎他幫助統一社會黨外匯專員 466 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,520 ‎兼史塔西官員夏克葛羅科斯基 467 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,560 ‎逃過東德的法律制裁 468 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:06,880 ‎他在西德沒有審判中的案件 469 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:13,360 ‎我們都同意他應該得到人道援助 470 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,080 ‎教會社會福利組織已伸出援手 471 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,840 ‎沃爾夫岡蕭伯勒是調查的關鍵人物 472 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,160 ‎他知道許多內幕,卻不肯透露太多 473 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,280 ‎政府則是低調處理,將文件鎖起來 474 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,080 ‎我們十分憤怒 475 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,280 ‎我們後來才得知夏克曾寫信給蕭伯勒 476 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,000 ‎他一定提到許多 477 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:39,200 ‎關於公司和資產等細節 478 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,720 ‎我們沒有看過這些信件 479 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:46,280 ‎起先蕭伯勒說他忘了 ‎接著又說那是私人信件 480 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,760 ‎又說他沒有義務將信件交出來 481 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,880 ‎總之他記不起來那些信的下落 482 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:54,920 ‎我們要怎麼找到那筆錢? 483 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,440 ‎怎麼保住那筆錢?根本辦不到 484 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,520 ‎媒體感興趣的話題 485 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,200 ‎五個公事包內驚人的文件 486 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,160 ‎夏克稱之為畢生的心血 487 00:34:08,240 --> 00:34:10,760 ‎兩德統一後的政治醜聞 488 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:13,160 ‎夏克葛羅科斯基 489 00:34:13,240 --> 00:34:18,240 ‎善於適應環境,懂得隨機應變 490 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,480 ‎他不可能知道我經手的事務 491 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,640 ‎我也不知道他的 492 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,160 ‎人們擔心可能有人蓄意 493 00:34:30,240 --> 00:34:31,960 ‎(司法部長,克勞斯金克爾) 494 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:36,600 ‎…支持、庇護、保護夏克先生 495 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,880 ‎我只能再次重複之前說過的話 496 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:41,920 ‎一派胡言! 497 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,800 ‎西德政治人物的文件 498 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:50,800 ‎皆被銷毀 499 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:53,480 ‎我不會指名道姓 500 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,440 ‎但那些政治菁英很清楚我說的是誰 501 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,240 ‎這表示我們還看得到那些道德敗壞 502 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,520 ‎愚昧、邪惡的政客逍遙法外 503 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,400 ‎因為文件永遠不會曝光,早就消失了 504 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:15,400 ‎但我知道一件事 505 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:20,640 ‎1911年春天,史塔西組織已蕩然無存 506 00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:23,600 ‎不會對人民構成威脅,他們不復存在 507 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,280 ‎(邦刑事調查局 ‎邦安全小組主任,貝恩德瓦納格) 508 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,280 ‎這起謀殺案 509 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:42,240 ‎竟然成為政治炒作,真令人啼笑皆非 510 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:49,320 ‎我經常問自己,身為關注政治的人 ‎以犯罪學角度思考 511 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,200 ‎誰能從中獲利? 512 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,280 ‎我能想像兇手 513 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,360 ‎與史塔西或紅軍派毫無瓜葛 514 00:36:01,720 --> 00:36:05,960 ‎他可能是職業殺手,接到了… 515 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,440 ‎有權有勢的西方政治利害關係人命令 516 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,520 ‎字幕翻譯:張瀛