1 00:00:07,674 --> 00:00:10,210 [serene music] 2 00:00:10,543 --> 00:00:15,315 * * 3 00:00:15,348 --> 00:00:19,352 - The beauty of Orange County 4 00:00:19,386 --> 00:00:22,889 is that you can be whatever you want to be here. 5 00:00:22,922 --> 00:00:25,225 * * 6 00:00:25,258 --> 00:00:28,962 Particularly for refugees coming from another country... 7 00:00:28,995 --> 00:00:31,498 * * 8 00:00:31,531 --> 00:00:34,134 - These communities became a haven 9 00:00:34,167 --> 00:00:36,770 as immigrants came in pursuit of the American dream. 10 00:00:36,803 --> 00:00:38,438 * * 11 00:00:38,471 --> 00:00:40,774 - For many people coming to America, 12 00:00:40,807 --> 00:00:42,475 Orange County represents 13 00:00:42,509 --> 00:00:44,544 a better life for their family. 14 00:00:44,577 --> 00:00:46,680 * * 15 00:00:46,713 --> 00:00:50,583 But for one child of Vietnamese immigrants, 16 00:00:50,617 --> 00:00:54,054 that dream became a nightmare. 17 00:00:54,087 --> 00:00:56,723 - They brought a picture, and they put it on the table, 18 00:00:56,756 --> 00:01:00,927 and my dad looked and let out a huge scream. 19 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,363 - This young man was stabbed brutally. 20 00:01:03,396 --> 00:01:06,800 - What kind of monster would do this? 21 00:01:06,833 --> 00:01:09,069 - A roommate of his believed that Thien 22 00:01:09,069 --> 00:01:11,671 had owed him rent money. 23 00:01:11,705 --> 00:01:15,542 - How many murders are caused from somebody over money? 24 00:01:15,575 --> 00:01:17,677 - But then we received a letter. 25 00:01:17,711 --> 00:01:21,414 It's sort of a play-by-play of the homicide. 26 00:01:21,448 --> 00:01:23,717 - This letter supercharges activity 27 00:01:23,750 --> 00:01:24,918 at the police department. 28 00:01:24,951 --> 00:01:27,420 Was this a hate crime? 29 00:01:27,454 --> 00:01:29,723 - It was chilling to the bone. 30 00:01:29,756 --> 00:01:31,691 - The Vietnamese community was terrified. 31 00:01:31,725 --> 00:01:34,094 - And what we found out-- he was a fugitive 32 00:01:34,094 --> 00:01:35,528 from the State of Missouri. 33 00:01:37,530 --> 00:01:39,165 - I started thinking 34 00:01:39,199 --> 00:01:41,267 this is headed towards unsolved. 35 00:01:44,104 --> 00:01:47,107 [dramatic music] 36 00:01:47,107 --> 00:01:54,147 * * 37 00:01:58,785 --> 00:02:01,388 [suspenseful music] 38 00:02:01,421 --> 00:02:02,722 My name is Tom Tarpley, 39 00:02:02,756 --> 00:02:04,424 and I worked at the Tustin Police Department 40 00:02:04,457 --> 00:02:05,625 for 25 years. 41 00:02:05,658 --> 00:02:06,926 And I worked in the homicide unit 42 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:08,862 for five years as an investigator. 43 00:02:08,895 --> 00:02:10,764 * * 44 00:02:10,797 --> 00:02:13,400 On Monday, January 29, 1996, 45 00:02:13,433 --> 00:02:15,435 I was just getting ready to come into work, 46 00:02:15,468 --> 00:02:17,470 and at 7:55 in the morning, 47 00:02:17,504 --> 00:02:19,472 I was notified by my department 48 00:02:19,506 --> 00:02:22,075 that there was a homicide at Tustin High School. 49 00:02:22,108 --> 00:02:25,311 * * 50 00:02:25,345 --> 00:02:26,846 - My name is Bruce Williams. 51 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,115 I'm an investigator with the Tustin Police Department 52 00:02:29,149 --> 00:02:31,117 since 1988. 53 00:02:31,151 --> 00:02:35,822 January 29th was actually the day after the Super Bowl. 54 00:02:35,855 --> 00:02:38,358 We were told that the body had been discovered 55 00:02:38,391 --> 00:02:40,093 on the tennis courts, 56 00:02:40,126 --> 00:02:41,961 and we were told that the body 57 00:02:41,995 --> 00:02:44,330 was very badly abused. 58 00:02:44,364 --> 00:02:48,168 * * 59 00:02:48,201 --> 00:02:50,403 - Tustin detectives arrive at the high school, 60 00:02:50,437 --> 00:02:53,406 where patrol officers have already sent students 61 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,009 and school employees inside. 62 00:02:56,109 --> 00:02:58,111 So investigators enter the tennis courts 63 00:02:58,111 --> 00:03:00,113 through a chain-linked fence 64 00:03:00,146 --> 00:03:03,049 and begin carefully examining the victim. 65 00:03:03,049 --> 00:03:06,119 - He was a young Asian male, probably in his 20s. 66 00:03:06,152 --> 00:03:07,887 He was stabbed brutally. 67 00:03:07,921 --> 00:03:09,622 * * 68 00:03:09,656 --> 00:03:11,458 You couldn't see the skin of this man 69 00:03:11,491 --> 00:03:13,793 because he was covered in blood. 70 00:03:13,827 --> 00:03:16,463 He was dressed in a pair of shorts. 71 00:03:16,496 --> 00:03:18,531 He had a sweatshirt on. 72 00:03:18,565 --> 00:03:21,334 There was a ball cap laying next to him. 73 00:03:21,368 --> 00:03:26,072 And he was wearing a set of black in-line skates. 74 00:03:26,106 --> 00:03:30,877 His throat was cut both sides, as if they were attempting 75 00:03:30,910 --> 00:03:33,747 maybe to cut the jugular vein. 76 00:03:33,780 --> 00:03:36,383 - There were abrasions to his face, 77 00:03:36,416 --> 00:03:38,551 which could have been from being punched. 78 00:03:38,585 --> 00:03:41,388 He had no identification on him. 79 00:03:41,421 --> 00:03:43,223 * * 80 00:03:43,256 --> 00:03:44,891 My thought, looking at the body, 81 00:03:44,924 --> 00:03:47,227 was that he had been confronted, 82 00:03:47,260 --> 00:03:50,296 had been knocked to the ground, and once knocked on the ground, 83 00:03:50,330 --> 00:03:51,564 was stabbed multiple times. 84 00:03:51,598 --> 00:03:53,633 What I call a blitz attack. 85 00:03:53,667 --> 00:03:57,170 I did not see any defensive wounds. 86 00:03:57,203 --> 00:04:02,108 - This was done with sincere hate and passion. 87 00:04:02,142 --> 00:04:05,045 The kind of violence that was behind this-- 88 00:04:05,045 --> 00:04:08,848 was this an attack by several individuals? 89 00:04:08,882 --> 00:04:11,851 - While the police don't have an ID for the victim, 90 00:04:11,885 --> 00:04:15,822 they hope that whoever stabbed this young man so savagely 91 00:04:15,855 --> 00:04:19,826 left behind some clues about their identity. 92 00:04:19,859 --> 00:04:21,928 - Did that clothing have DNA on it? 93 00:04:21,961 --> 00:04:24,831 Did his fingernails have DNA on it? 94 00:04:24,864 --> 00:04:27,567 - While the CSI unit collects blood evidence, 95 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,571 investigators discover another important lead. 96 00:04:31,604 --> 00:04:34,174 - There was a key next to the body. 97 00:04:35,308 --> 00:04:37,644 - We didn't know if it came from the person 98 00:04:37,677 --> 00:04:39,813 who attacked this young man 99 00:04:39,846 --> 00:04:41,514 or whether it belonged to the young male. 100 00:04:42,816 --> 00:04:45,618 - Detectives bag the key and search the area 101 00:04:45,652 --> 00:04:47,087 for a murder weapon. 102 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,756 As they do, they pick up on a grisly clue 103 00:04:49,789 --> 00:04:52,859 that the perpetrator left behind. 104 00:04:52,892 --> 00:04:56,529 - There was a blood trail that went from the body 105 00:04:56,563 --> 00:04:58,565 across the tennis court 106 00:04:58,598 --> 00:05:01,334 and towards the football field. 107 00:05:01,368 --> 00:05:04,504 We thought it was blood from the murder weapon. 108 00:05:06,206 --> 00:05:07,674 And we made, at that time, a decision 109 00:05:07,707 --> 00:05:09,442 to bring in a bloodhound. 110 00:05:09,476 --> 00:05:12,445 The dog did appear to pick up a scent, 111 00:05:12,479 --> 00:05:14,814 but it stopped because the blood eventually ran out. 112 00:05:14,848 --> 00:05:16,783 So we never found the murder weapon. 113 00:05:19,452 --> 00:05:22,789 - The sheer brutality strikes investigators as a crime 114 00:05:22,822 --> 00:05:25,759 perpetrated by someone with a deep-seated anger 115 00:05:25,792 --> 00:05:27,293 toward the victim. 116 00:05:27,327 --> 00:05:30,864 But who is the man who's been so ruthlessly murdered 117 00:05:30,897 --> 00:05:32,632 on the tennis court? 118 00:05:32,665 --> 00:05:34,601 - Nobody could identify him at the scene there. 119 00:05:34,634 --> 00:05:36,069 We had nothing. 120 00:05:36,069 --> 00:05:38,605 - Then, at 3:30 in the afternoon, 121 00:05:38,638 --> 00:05:42,175 detectives get an unexpected phone call. 122 00:05:42,208 --> 00:05:43,510 - There was a call 123 00:05:43,543 --> 00:05:45,679 that was received by the watch commander 124 00:05:45,712 --> 00:05:48,682 from a local person who claimed that their brother 125 00:05:48,715 --> 00:05:50,417 had been missing. 126 00:05:50,450 --> 00:05:53,153 - The caller is 22-year-old Lily Ly, 127 00:05:53,186 --> 00:05:55,755 and she lives with her parents on Owen Drive, 128 00:05:55,789 --> 00:05:58,291 less than a mile from Tustin High School. 129 00:05:58,324 --> 00:06:02,028 * * 130 00:06:02,028 --> 00:06:04,297 - We essentially were going to go through the process 131 00:06:04,330 --> 00:06:07,133 of taking a missing persons report, 132 00:06:07,167 --> 00:06:08,902 although we knew there was a possibility 133 00:06:08,935 --> 00:06:11,805 that this was our victim. 134 00:06:11,838 --> 00:06:14,040 - My name is Lily Tran. 135 00:06:14,074 --> 00:06:16,376 The police came over fairly quickly. 136 00:06:16,409 --> 00:06:18,511 My dad and I greeted them. 137 00:06:18,545 --> 00:06:20,613 My thought was, they'll get some information 138 00:06:20,647 --> 00:06:22,382 that can help me look for him. 139 00:06:22,415 --> 00:06:24,718 And in my head thinking that we would find him. 140 00:06:25,885 --> 00:06:28,688 - Lily tells investigators that her missing brother 141 00:06:28,722 --> 00:06:31,658 is 24-year-old Thien Ly. 142 00:06:31,691 --> 00:06:33,760 - Investigator Tarpley began to ask questions 143 00:06:33,793 --> 00:06:35,729 about their son and their brother, 144 00:06:35,762 --> 00:06:37,430 asked for a picture. 145 00:06:37,464 --> 00:06:40,066 - When detectives examine the photo, 146 00:06:40,100 --> 00:06:41,901 it bears a striking resemblance 147 00:06:41,935 --> 00:06:44,270 to the murder victim on the tennis court. 148 00:06:44,304 --> 00:06:46,906 But to be sure, investigators ask permission 149 00:06:46,940 --> 00:06:48,575 to search Thien's bedroom, 150 00:06:48,608 --> 00:06:50,076 hoping to find something 151 00:06:50,110 --> 00:06:52,479 that might tie him to the crime scene. 152 00:06:52,512 --> 00:06:55,749 - His wallet was there, his identification. 153 00:06:55,782 --> 00:06:57,717 Car key was there. 154 00:06:57,751 --> 00:06:58,985 Lily told us 155 00:06:59,085 --> 00:07:00,553 that the only thing that he took with him 156 00:07:00,587 --> 00:07:02,655 besides his clothes and the roller blade 157 00:07:02,689 --> 00:07:04,024 was that single key. 158 00:07:04,057 --> 00:07:08,461 * * 159 00:07:08,495 --> 00:07:12,599 - And then the police officer took a heavy sigh. 160 00:07:12,632 --> 00:07:17,103 He said--he said, 161 00:07:17,137 --> 00:07:19,839 "There's no easy way for me to tell you this, 162 00:07:19,873 --> 00:07:22,542 "but we found a body of a young man 163 00:07:22,575 --> 00:07:23,910 "this morning. 164 00:07:23,943 --> 00:07:25,945 We think it may have been your brother." 165 00:07:27,614 --> 00:07:30,950 So they bought a picture, and they put it on the table. 166 00:07:33,586 --> 00:07:35,889 I didn't want to look, so my dad looked, and-- 167 00:07:35,922 --> 00:07:38,358 and my dad let out a huge scream. 168 00:07:41,094 --> 00:07:44,164 I knew--I knew it was bad. 169 00:07:44,197 --> 00:07:49,269 Then that's when we kind of, like, let it sink in, 170 00:07:49,302 --> 00:07:51,571 but it was, like, frozen, you know? 171 00:07:51,604 --> 00:07:52,972 We--shock. 172 00:07:57,610 --> 00:08:00,914 - In order to find the killer, investigators ask the family 173 00:08:01,014 --> 00:08:03,016 to help them nail down a timeline 174 00:08:03,016 --> 00:08:06,219 for the hours leading up to Thien's murder. 175 00:08:06,252 --> 00:08:10,657 - Lily told us Thien had gone to a Super Bowl party that day, 176 00:08:10,690 --> 00:08:12,025 had come home, 177 00:08:12,025 --> 00:08:13,293 and he was gonna go to Tustin High School 178 00:08:13,326 --> 00:08:15,628 to go rollerblading. 179 00:08:15,662 --> 00:08:19,733 - I glance up, seeing him smiling at me, 180 00:08:19,766 --> 00:08:21,568 and he just rollerbladed out, 181 00:08:21,601 --> 00:08:23,536 and that was the last time I saw him. 182 00:08:26,606 --> 00:08:28,074 - My name is Thai Ly, 183 00:08:28,108 --> 00:08:30,043 and Thien Ly is my older brother. 184 00:08:31,044 --> 00:08:33,413 I was in school at UCLA. 185 00:08:33,446 --> 00:08:35,448 I got the phone call, picked it up, 186 00:08:35,482 --> 00:08:37,150 and it was my uncle. 187 00:08:37,183 --> 00:08:38,952 * * 188 00:08:39,052 --> 00:08:41,688 "Your brother's been assassinated." 189 00:08:41,721 --> 00:08:44,491 I was like, "This is a joke. This can't be right." 190 00:08:44,524 --> 00:08:47,660 Didn't really hit me until I came home. 191 00:08:47,694 --> 00:08:50,730 Pulling up into my parents' house in Tustin, 192 00:08:50,764 --> 00:08:53,066 seeing my family members there already, 193 00:08:53,066 --> 00:08:56,136 it was when it really hit me was like, this is not a joke. 194 00:08:56,169 --> 00:08:58,071 - My parents couldn't come up with any scenarios 195 00:08:58,071 --> 00:09:00,740 of why or who would have killed Thien 196 00:09:00,774 --> 00:09:03,009 because he was a good person. 197 00:09:03,009 --> 00:09:04,678 Everyone loved Thien. 198 00:09:04,711 --> 00:09:07,380 [soft music] 199 00:09:07,414 --> 00:09:09,215 [birds calling] 200 00:09:09,249 --> 00:09:11,618 - The Lys are Vietnamese natives. 201 00:09:11,651 --> 00:09:14,020 In the 1970s, Thien grew up 202 00:09:14,054 --> 00:09:15,555 with his two younger siblings 203 00:09:15,588 --> 00:09:18,825 in the Central Coast village of Tuy Hoa. 204 00:09:18,858 --> 00:09:20,393 - We were poor. 205 00:09:20,427 --> 00:09:22,862 It's just like a farm town. 206 00:09:22,896 --> 00:09:24,698 It was a normal life for us. 207 00:09:24,731 --> 00:09:26,866 [ominous music] 208 00:09:26,900 --> 00:09:30,203 - During the Vietnam War, their father, Thi Ly, 209 00:09:30,236 --> 00:09:33,239 fought for the South Vietnamese Army. 210 00:09:33,273 --> 00:09:35,308 After the Fall of Saigon marked 211 00:09:35,342 --> 00:09:37,711 the end of the war in 1975, 212 00:09:37,744 --> 00:09:41,214 Ly was imprisoned by the North Vietnamese Army. 213 00:09:41,247 --> 00:09:42,949 - My dad was in the political camp 214 00:09:43,049 --> 00:09:44,351 until'81. 215 00:09:44,384 --> 00:09:47,454 They kept him there for six years. 216 00:09:47,487 --> 00:09:51,591 - After his release, the Lys fled Vietnam in 1982 217 00:09:51,624 --> 00:09:56,229 for a better life in America and landed in Tustin. 218 00:09:56,262 --> 00:09:58,064 - Everything that we came from, 219 00:09:58,098 --> 00:10:00,066 we were living the American dream. 220 00:10:00,100 --> 00:10:02,936 My parents worked really hard. 221 00:10:02,969 --> 00:10:04,704 - They came here with basically nothing, 222 00:10:04,738 --> 00:10:07,974 and they saved enough to build a small business. 223 00:10:08,008 --> 00:10:09,476 Before Thien went to college, 224 00:10:09,509 --> 00:10:10,944 he worked at the store as well. 225 00:10:10,977 --> 00:10:11,945 He was very intense. 226 00:10:11,978 --> 00:10:13,346 He worked really hard. 227 00:10:13,380 --> 00:10:15,682 - What we found out about this young man 228 00:10:15,715 --> 00:10:17,384 is that this man was driven. 229 00:10:17,417 --> 00:10:20,387 He was a double major at UCLA. 230 00:10:20,420 --> 00:10:22,422 He goes on to Georgetown University, 231 00:10:22,455 --> 00:10:24,124 gets a double master's. 232 00:10:24,157 --> 00:10:27,193 He had eyes on going to law school, perhaps, 233 00:10:27,227 --> 00:10:30,964 or even medical school. 234 00:10:30,997 --> 00:10:34,234 * * 235 00:10:34,267 --> 00:10:37,437 - The story of the family's early roots in Vietnam 236 00:10:37,470 --> 00:10:40,106 strikes up a chilling theory. 237 00:10:40,140 --> 00:10:43,443 - One of the family members asked whether it could be 238 00:10:43,476 --> 00:10:46,813 a retaliatory murder for something 239 00:10:46,846 --> 00:10:48,915 that their dad had done. 240 00:10:48,948 --> 00:10:51,151 - He had been a fairly high-ranking officer 241 00:10:51,184 --> 00:10:53,119 in the South Vietnamese Army. 242 00:10:53,153 --> 00:10:55,321 * * 243 00:10:55,355 --> 00:10:58,024 - In the eyes of some North Vietnamese immigrants, 244 00:10:58,058 --> 00:11:00,060 the South Vietnamese fighters 245 00:11:00,060 --> 00:11:01,961 were a rebel group that threatened 246 00:11:02,062 --> 00:11:04,064 their communist way of life. 247 00:11:04,064 --> 00:11:05,832 - Thi Ly had made a lot of enemies 248 00:11:05,865 --> 00:11:07,767 because of his fight of communism. 249 00:11:07,801 --> 00:11:10,270 We knew that there is retaliation for things 250 00:11:10,303 --> 00:11:12,172 that happened over in the homeland, 251 00:11:12,205 --> 00:11:13,907 that that does happen here. 252 00:11:13,940 --> 00:11:16,443 We thought maybe they couldn't get to the father, 253 00:11:16,476 --> 00:11:17,777 so they got to the son. 254 00:11:17,811 --> 00:11:20,780 [dramatic music] 255 00:11:20,814 --> 00:11:24,451 * * 256 00:11:24,484 --> 00:11:26,953 - The letter is a horror show. 257 00:11:26,986 --> 00:11:28,655 "Walked right up to him, and he was scared. 258 00:11:28,688 --> 00:11:30,123 I had a knife." 259 00:11:30,156 --> 00:11:33,293 - He took the identity of his deceased brother. 260 00:11:33,326 --> 00:11:36,830 - He had just the blackest eyes you've ever seen. 261 00:11:36,863 --> 00:11:39,132 He's pure and utter evil. 262 00:11:39,165 --> 00:11:40,567 * * 263 00:11:42,402 --> 00:11:45,372 [suspenseful music] 264 00:11:45,572 --> 00:11:47,033 [suspenseful rock music] 265 00:11:47,033 --> 00:11:52,177 [suspenseful rock music] 266 00:11:52,511 --> 00:11:53,912 * * 267 00:11:53,946 --> 00:11:57,483 [soft music] 268 00:11:57,516 --> 00:12:00,219 - One day after the vicious slaying 269 00:12:00,252 --> 00:12:02,821 of 24-year-old Thien Ly, 270 00:12:02,855 --> 00:12:06,058 investigators in Tustin have no viable suspects, 271 00:12:06,058 --> 00:12:08,694 but they do have a possible motive. 272 00:12:08,727 --> 00:12:12,164 Thien's father, Thi Ly, we got the background 273 00:12:12,197 --> 00:12:14,600 that he was a fairly high-ranking officer 274 00:12:14,633 --> 00:12:16,568 in the South Vietnamese Army 275 00:12:16,602 --> 00:12:18,804 and had made a lot of enemies 276 00:12:18,837 --> 00:12:20,839 because of his fight of communism 277 00:12:20,873 --> 00:12:23,876 and his involvement with the South Vietnamese Army. 278 00:12:23,909 --> 00:12:26,979 - Thi Ly left Vietnam with his young family 279 00:12:27,079 --> 00:12:30,082 and got them to the safety of Southern California, 280 00:12:30,082 --> 00:12:32,151 but the former prisoner of war 281 00:12:32,184 --> 00:12:35,521 might have unknowingly brought danger with him. 282 00:12:35,554 --> 00:12:37,189 - During the course of the Vietnam War, 283 00:12:37,222 --> 00:12:38,757 you had a lot of refugees, 284 00:12:38,791 --> 00:12:41,193 because of the political instability in Vietnam, 285 00:12:41,226 --> 00:12:43,729 that ended up coming to Orange County. 286 00:12:43,762 --> 00:12:47,700 This could be enemies of his from the North Vietnamese Army 287 00:12:47,733 --> 00:12:50,903 that could possibly have killed the son. 288 00:12:50,936 --> 00:12:53,972 We knew that that does happen here, 289 00:12:54,006 --> 00:12:56,542 so we had to definitely go down that road. 290 00:12:56,575 --> 00:12:59,478 - Nearby Westminster is a historic refuge 291 00:12:59,511 --> 00:13:01,313 for many Vietnamese families 292 00:13:01,347 --> 00:13:03,549 seeking a better life in America. 293 00:13:03,582 --> 00:13:06,218 - Westminster Little Saigon is really 294 00:13:06,251 --> 00:13:07,786 the Ellis Island of the West Coast 295 00:13:07,820 --> 00:13:09,722 for the Vietnamese refugees. 296 00:13:09,755 --> 00:13:12,658 - Tarpley and Williams call the Westminster Police 297 00:13:12,691 --> 00:13:15,761 to help them gather intel from the streets. 298 00:13:15,794 --> 00:13:17,496 - We knew that Westminster, 299 00:13:17,529 --> 00:13:19,932 being the receiving center for these refugees, 300 00:13:19,965 --> 00:13:21,967 had informants at the police department. 301 00:13:22,067 --> 00:13:25,771 They work with Little Saigon and with the Asian gangs. 302 00:13:25,804 --> 00:13:28,407 - They hear things that we wouldn't hear. 303 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,110 What were the rumors in the Vietnamese community? 304 00:13:31,143 --> 00:13:33,946 - But word from Westminster PD's informants 305 00:13:33,979 --> 00:13:36,782 brings them no closer to a killer. 306 00:13:36,815 --> 00:13:38,484 - The Westminster Police Department 307 00:13:38,517 --> 00:13:40,886 was sure through their informants 308 00:13:40,919 --> 00:13:41,887 and their contacts 309 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,790 that this was not a vendetta. 310 00:13:44,823 --> 00:13:48,427 I think that any time somebody has a vendetta, 311 00:13:48,460 --> 00:13:50,796 they want someone to know about it, right? 312 00:13:50,829 --> 00:13:52,931 The Vietnamese community is very tight. 313 00:13:52,965 --> 00:13:57,169 They would have known whether this was a vendetta. 314 00:13:57,202 --> 00:14:00,105 - If our murder was as a result 315 00:14:00,139 --> 00:14:02,374 of the father's military activities, 316 00:14:02,408 --> 00:14:05,611 the children generally are not the victims. 317 00:14:05,644 --> 00:14:10,182 It's kind of a taboo with that. 318 00:14:10,215 --> 00:14:11,884 - With the military lead on the shelf, 319 00:14:11,917 --> 00:14:14,186 police scour the autopsy report 320 00:14:14,219 --> 00:14:15,487 for new clues 321 00:14:15,521 --> 00:14:17,456 to help them track Thien's killer. 322 00:14:17,489 --> 00:14:20,959 - The pathologist who did the autopsy 323 00:14:21,060 --> 00:14:23,629 estimated that the murder was between midnight 324 00:14:23,662 --> 00:14:26,765 up until the discovery of the body. 325 00:14:26,799 --> 00:14:29,501 Kind of a seven-, eight-hour window. 326 00:14:29,535 --> 00:14:31,704 - It also provides more details 327 00:14:31,737 --> 00:14:34,606 on the brutal nature of the attack. 328 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,176 - Autopsy shows that this man was stabbed in the back 329 00:14:37,209 --> 00:14:39,478 and in the front, piercing the lungs, 330 00:14:39,511 --> 00:14:42,314 the heart, the kidneys. 331 00:14:42,348 --> 00:14:47,786 - There were 26 stab wounds to the upper body area. 332 00:14:47,820 --> 00:14:51,457 - The weapon was a jagged 1-inch blade, 333 00:14:51,490 --> 00:14:55,327 that he'd went as deep as 4 1/2 inches 334 00:14:55,361 --> 00:14:58,397 into this young man's body. 335 00:14:58,430 --> 00:15:01,200 - This was an overkill situation. 336 00:15:01,233 --> 00:15:03,168 If you were trying to kill this person, 337 00:15:03,202 --> 00:15:05,771 you didn't need to do as much damage as you did. 338 00:15:05,804 --> 00:15:10,042 Particularly those wounds to the neck, 339 00:15:10,042 --> 00:15:12,077 it appeared that someone was trying to almost cut 340 00:15:12,111 --> 00:15:14,413 the head off of the victim. 341 00:15:14,446 --> 00:15:18,884 - This man was already dying when his throat was cut, 342 00:15:18,917 --> 00:15:21,286 and he bled to death. 343 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,656 - This was a personally motivated homicide. 344 00:15:24,690 --> 00:15:27,326 - The coroner's report paints a vivid picture, 345 00:15:27,359 --> 00:15:29,194 but it doesn't offer any clues 346 00:15:29,228 --> 00:15:31,897 about who committed this vile act. 347 00:15:31,930 --> 00:15:34,366 - There was nothing on the victim's body 348 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,268 in terms of DNA that helped us. 349 00:15:37,069 --> 00:15:39,905 - The investigation is back to square one, 350 00:15:39,938 --> 00:15:41,874 but then, the day after the murder, 351 00:15:41,907 --> 00:15:43,509 detectives are contacted 352 00:15:43,542 --> 00:15:46,412 by an acquaintance of Thien's. 353 00:15:46,445 --> 00:15:47,579 - I got a call 354 00:15:47,613 --> 00:15:49,348 from the watch commander at my desk 355 00:15:49,381 --> 00:15:52,584 and he told me that he had a person on the phone 356 00:15:52,618 --> 00:15:54,520 who was friends of our victim, 357 00:15:54,553 --> 00:15:55,888 and would you like to speak with him? 358 00:15:55,921 --> 00:15:57,256 And I told him, you know, "Absolutely. 359 00:15:57,289 --> 00:15:58,624 Transfer the call to me." 360 00:15:58,657 --> 00:16:01,827 His first name was John, and John told us 361 00:16:01,860 --> 00:16:03,829 that Thien was a former roommate of his 362 00:16:03,862 --> 00:16:07,299 from UCLA, that he lived up in Santa Monica, 363 00:16:07,333 --> 00:16:10,035 which is probably about 50 miles, 364 00:16:10,035 --> 00:16:12,338 and that he had some background 365 00:16:12,371 --> 00:16:13,806 about Thien Ly. 366 00:16:13,839 --> 00:16:17,176 So we went up there and sat down with him. 367 00:16:17,209 --> 00:16:18,677 * * 368 00:16:18,711 --> 00:16:22,147 - John was a tall, well-built man. 369 00:16:22,181 --> 00:16:23,415 Very articulate. 370 00:16:23,449 --> 00:16:25,918 I would say in his late 50s. 371 00:16:25,951 --> 00:16:27,953 So right off the bat, 372 00:16:28,053 --> 00:16:30,155 that was a pretty significant age difference, 373 00:16:30,189 --> 00:16:32,825 but in the academic environment, 374 00:16:32,858 --> 00:16:34,460 it's not unusual. 375 00:16:34,493 --> 00:16:38,330 - John has no idea who had it out for his friend Thien 376 00:16:38,364 --> 00:16:41,467 and tells police he's known him for four years, 377 00:16:41,500 --> 00:16:43,502 since 1992. 378 00:16:43,535 --> 00:16:45,337 - John was a teacher's assistant 379 00:16:45,371 --> 00:16:47,172 when Thien was a student. 380 00:16:47,206 --> 00:16:49,274 So they became friends, 381 00:16:49,308 --> 00:16:52,144 so much so that he moved in with John. 382 00:16:52,177 --> 00:16:54,513 - Thien needed a place to stay while he was up there, 383 00:16:54,546 --> 00:16:56,949 and John was needing the money. 384 00:16:56,982 --> 00:16:59,718 So they had been roommates for some time. 385 00:16:59,752 --> 00:17:03,389 - But when investigators ask John why Thien moved out, 386 00:17:03,422 --> 00:17:05,024 he becomes agitated. 387 00:17:05,024 --> 00:17:07,126 [dramatic music] 388 00:17:07,159 --> 00:17:11,163 - John believed that Thien had owed him rent money. 389 00:17:11,196 --> 00:17:13,132 * * 390 00:17:13,165 --> 00:17:14,566 - Rent money? 391 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,037 How many murders are caused from somebody over money? 392 00:17:18,070 --> 00:17:20,873 So now John becomes more interesting to us. 393 00:17:20,906 --> 00:17:22,174 * * 394 00:17:22,207 --> 00:17:26,679 - We did ask him for an alibi for that night. 395 00:17:26,712 --> 00:17:30,282 - He took offense to it and bristled a bit and said, 396 00:17:30,315 --> 00:17:34,186 "I was at dinner with a friend in Los Angeles." 397 00:17:36,188 --> 00:17:39,358 - You can't dismiss that type of information. 398 00:17:39,391 --> 00:17:41,126 You have to look into it. 399 00:17:45,964 --> 00:17:49,000 [suspenseful music] 400 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:54,708 [suspenseful music] 401 00:17:55,075 --> 00:18:02,015 * * 402 00:18:02,048 --> 00:18:05,685 - Within three days of 24-year-old Thien Ly's murder 403 00:18:05,719 --> 00:18:07,420 in Tustin, California, 404 00:18:07,454 --> 00:18:09,923 detectives are speaking to a person of interest, 405 00:18:10,023 --> 00:18:13,126 Thien's ex-roommate from UCLA. 406 00:18:13,159 --> 00:18:16,196 - We did ask him for an alibi for that night. 407 00:18:16,229 --> 00:18:20,033 January 29, 1996, between midnight 408 00:18:20,066 --> 00:18:22,435 and 8:30 in the morning. 409 00:18:22,469 --> 00:18:26,406 He told us that he had gone to dinner with a friend, 410 00:18:26,439 --> 00:18:28,775 and then John returned to his residence 411 00:18:28,808 --> 00:18:31,044 in Santa Monica. 412 00:18:31,044 --> 00:18:35,081 He gave a plausible story, but we couldn't dismiss this. 413 00:18:36,916 --> 00:18:39,686 - While investigators look into John's alibi, 414 00:18:39,719 --> 00:18:42,622 the unsolved murder ignites paranoia 415 00:18:42,655 --> 00:18:44,257 in the city of Tustin. 416 00:18:44,290 --> 00:18:46,059 - My name is Geoff Boucher. 417 00:18:46,059 --> 00:18:47,293 I worked for the "Los Angeles Times" 418 00:18:47,327 --> 00:18:50,130 Orange County edition in the mid'90s. 419 00:18:50,163 --> 00:18:52,866 The Ly case was a really wrenching thing 420 00:18:52,899 --> 00:18:54,067 for a lot of people. 421 00:18:54,100 --> 00:18:56,703 The Vietnamese community was terrified. 422 00:18:56,736 --> 00:18:59,272 You look at the encroaching influence 423 00:18:59,305 --> 00:19:03,143 of white supremacists, the brutality of the crime, 424 00:19:03,176 --> 00:19:05,912 they're wondering, was this a hate crime? 425 00:19:06,012 --> 00:19:08,148 - We were scared because we didn't know, 426 00:19:08,181 --> 00:19:11,017 why was Thien targeted? 427 00:19:11,051 --> 00:19:13,186 - This could be the first of a sequence. 428 00:19:13,219 --> 00:19:15,522 Is there a killer on the loose? 429 00:19:15,555 --> 00:19:18,792 - That fear didn't stop Thien's friends and family 430 00:19:18,825 --> 00:19:21,327 from holding an impromptu vigil. 431 00:19:21,361 --> 00:19:24,531 On the evening of Wednesday, January 31st, 432 00:19:24,564 --> 00:19:28,301 mourners gather at the Tustin High School tennis courts. 433 00:19:28,335 --> 00:19:31,871 - Because the crime was so jolting and unsettling, 434 00:19:31,905 --> 00:19:34,908 it was major news. 435 00:19:34,941 --> 00:19:36,776 So the candlelight vigil is one that has 436 00:19:36,810 --> 00:19:39,245 a lot of media coverage. 437 00:19:39,279 --> 00:19:41,047 There's a lot of emotion. 438 00:19:41,047 --> 00:19:42,849 - It was really hard for me. 439 00:19:42,882 --> 00:19:46,419 It was denial and shock. 440 00:19:46,453 --> 00:19:47,854 Is this a nightmare I'm in? 441 00:19:47,887 --> 00:19:50,056 Am I gonna be waking up from this? 442 00:19:50,056 --> 00:19:51,624 But being in the vigil, 443 00:19:51,658 --> 00:19:53,493 it's really nice to be distracted 444 00:19:53,526 --> 00:19:55,428 by all those people. 445 00:19:55,462 --> 00:19:58,164 - I admired him as a multifaceted, 446 00:19:58,198 --> 00:20:00,066 multitalented individual. 447 00:20:00,066 --> 00:20:03,703 - Everyone talking about him, learning aspects of his life 448 00:20:03,737 --> 00:20:05,638 that we really didn't see. 449 00:20:05,672 --> 00:20:08,942 And so it was nice to have people around. 450 00:20:12,612 --> 00:20:15,215 - One person that catches the eye of detectives 451 00:20:15,248 --> 00:20:18,585 is Thien's ex-roommate John. 452 00:20:18,618 --> 00:20:21,154 Police are still looking into his alibi, 453 00:20:21,187 --> 00:20:24,524 but his behavior at the vigil strikes them as odd. 454 00:20:24,557 --> 00:20:27,227 - John goes to the candlelight vigil 455 00:20:27,260 --> 00:20:29,929 and tells the people at the vigil, 456 00:20:29,963 --> 00:20:33,600 "Don't talk to anybody else because the murderer 457 00:20:33,633 --> 00:20:36,102 could be here." 458 00:20:36,136 --> 00:20:38,638 - Is he trying to create a bond between him 459 00:20:38,672 --> 00:20:40,373 and this grisly crime 460 00:20:40,407 --> 00:20:43,009 just to make himself seem important? 461 00:20:43,043 --> 00:20:45,145 Or is he showing the kind 462 00:20:45,178 --> 00:20:47,547 of unfiltered, aberrant behavior 463 00:20:47,580 --> 00:20:48,915 that a killer might show? 464 00:20:52,252 --> 00:20:54,721 - When a candlelight procession begins, 465 00:20:54,754 --> 00:20:58,324 his erratic behavior continues. 466 00:20:58,358 --> 00:21:00,727 - People are walking and marching, 467 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,362 and John's part of that. 468 00:21:02,395 --> 00:21:06,232 And every time he passes by this bank of cameras, 469 00:21:06,266 --> 00:21:09,636 he obscures his face from the camera. 470 00:21:09,669 --> 00:21:11,137 It's very suspicious. 471 00:21:13,406 --> 00:21:16,309 - Odd behavior doesn't make a person guilty, 472 00:21:16,343 --> 00:21:19,312 but detectives need to do their due diligence. 473 00:21:19,346 --> 00:21:21,748 So they do a background check on John, 474 00:21:21,781 --> 00:21:25,485 and what they discover gives them pause. 475 00:21:25,518 --> 00:21:27,987 - He had a long-term girlfriend. 476 00:21:28,088 --> 00:21:29,923 There had been prior domestic violence, 477 00:21:29,956 --> 00:21:31,658 which we were able to find a police report for, 478 00:21:31,691 --> 00:21:33,660 so it did appear 479 00:21:33,693 --> 00:21:35,995 that John would lose his temper at times, 480 00:21:36,096 --> 00:21:38,465 which was obviously of a concern to us. 481 00:21:39,833 --> 00:21:42,202 - As questions arise around John, 482 00:21:42,235 --> 00:21:45,438 Tarpley and Williams need to corroborate his alibi 483 00:21:45,472 --> 00:21:47,607 for the night of Thien's murder. 484 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,110 - We had to find out whether what John was telling us 485 00:21:50,143 --> 00:21:53,113 was true about having dinner in Los Angeles. 486 00:21:53,113 --> 00:21:55,482 - We talked to people that were there. 487 00:21:55,515 --> 00:21:58,284 John went up there, and they had dinner, 488 00:21:58,318 --> 00:22:00,887 and then John returned 489 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,090 to his residence in Santa Monica. 490 00:22:04,124 --> 00:22:07,927 Where the coroner was telling us that this murder occurred 491 00:22:07,961 --> 00:22:12,098 sometime between midnight and 8:30 in the morning, 492 00:22:12,132 --> 00:22:16,202 from his own statement, John was back home 493 00:22:16,236 --> 00:22:20,540 in Santa Monica at about 11:00 p.m.. 494 00:22:20,573 --> 00:22:22,308 Could there have been enough time 495 00:22:22,342 --> 00:22:24,310 to get from Santa Monica to Tustin? 496 00:22:24,344 --> 00:22:26,079 It certainly was possible, 497 00:22:26,079 --> 00:22:30,717 depending on how long Thien was out there for. 498 00:22:30,750 --> 00:22:33,687 At that point, John was definitely our best, 499 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,455 and really, our only lead. 500 00:22:35,488 --> 00:22:37,123 There really wasn't any physical evidence 501 00:22:37,157 --> 00:22:39,192 that he was involved in this homicide, 502 00:22:39,225 --> 00:22:40,860 but as an investigator, 503 00:22:40,894 --> 00:22:43,229 you can't dismiss any of these theories. 504 00:22:44,798 --> 00:22:46,599 - On February 5th, 505 00:22:46,633 --> 00:22:49,803 Thien's family holds a memorial service 506 00:22:49,836 --> 00:22:52,539 in neighboring Santa Ana. 507 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:55,709 - At the beginning, I didn't want to see 508 00:22:55,742 --> 00:22:56,910 my brother laying there. 509 00:22:58,745 --> 00:23:00,780 And I did. 510 00:23:00,814 --> 00:23:03,216 That image just kind of, like, stuck in me. 511 00:23:03,249 --> 00:23:05,452 He looked like a wax figure. 512 00:23:05,485 --> 00:23:09,122 He had a beautiful soul, and it's one of those realities 513 00:23:09,155 --> 00:23:10,423 that I didn't want to face. 514 00:23:16,129 --> 00:23:17,964 Sorry. - It's okay. 515 00:23:23,269 --> 00:23:25,372 - Detectives Tarpley and Williams 516 00:23:25,405 --> 00:23:27,941 attend the service to show their respect. 517 00:23:27,974 --> 00:23:29,876 - These are always emotional events 518 00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:31,378 for everybody. 519 00:23:31,411 --> 00:23:33,380 It was just the utter devastation. 520 00:23:33,413 --> 00:23:36,850 And I mean, these are people who did all the right things, 521 00:23:36,883 --> 00:23:42,355 and their life will never be the same ever. 522 00:23:45,191 --> 00:23:47,360 [suspenseful music] 523 00:23:47,394 --> 00:23:49,496 - For the next few weeks, detectives 524 00:23:49,529 --> 00:23:51,765 continue investigating John. 525 00:23:51,798 --> 00:23:55,101 Then, on March 1st, five weeks after the murder, 526 00:23:55,135 --> 00:23:57,537 Tarpley and Williams obtain a search warrant 527 00:23:57,570 --> 00:23:59,339 for John's apartment. 528 00:23:59,372 --> 00:24:01,041 - The day we're going to go 529 00:24:01,074 --> 00:24:03,043 and execute this search warrant, 530 00:24:03,076 --> 00:24:04,077 the phone rings. 531 00:24:04,110 --> 00:24:05,345 [phone ringing] 532 00:24:05,378 --> 00:24:08,782 - It's from Alamogordo, New Mexico. 533 00:24:08,815 --> 00:24:10,884 - I'm thinking, how is Alamogordo, New Mexico, 534 00:24:10,917 --> 00:24:12,752 related to this case? 535 00:24:12,786 --> 00:24:16,056 And it's the Alamogordo, New Mexico, Police Department 536 00:24:16,056 --> 00:24:19,059 saying, "We received a letter." 537 00:24:19,092 --> 00:24:21,928 The letter is kind of a play-by-play 538 00:24:21,961 --> 00:24:24,064 of Thien Ly's homicide. 539 00:24:31,071 --> 00:24:34,000 [suspenseful rock music] 540 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:39,979 [suspenseful rock music] 541 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,850 [uneasy music] 542 00:24:43,883 --> 00:24:47,654 * * 543 00:24:47,687 --> 00:24:49,089 - While investigating 544 00:24:49,089 --> 00:24:51,991 the horrific murder of Thien Ly, 545 00:24:52,092 --> 00:24:55,095 Tustin detectives are unexpectedly contacted 546 00:24:55,128 --> 00:24:57,931 by police in Alamogordo, New Mexico. 547 00:24:57,964 --> 00:25:01,067 The cops there tell them they've just received a letter 548 00:25:01,101 --> 00:25:02,469 that reads like a confession 549 00:25:02,502 --> 00:25:04,904 to the murder of Thien Ly. 550 00:25:04,938 --> 00:25:08,675 - A sergeant from the Alamogordo Police Department. 551 00:25:08,708 --> 00:25:10,777 He said, "You might be interested in knowing we have 552 00:25:10,810 --> 00:25:15,281 "a letter here that describes in detail 553 00:25:15,315 --> 00:25:18,451 "a murder that took place in your city, 554 00:25:18,485 --> 00:25:22,856 January 29th, 1996." 555 00:25:25,058 --> 00:25:27,794 - The recipient of the letter is named Robert Delaney, 556 00:25:27,827 --> 00:25:30,964 who lived in Alamogordo, New Mexico. 557 00:25:31,064 --> 00:25:32,332 The person that's writing this letter 558 00:25:32,365 --> 00:25:35,735 was Jerry Lindberg. 559 00:25:35,769 --> 00:25:39,072 - Delaney's family, who saw the letter, 560 00:25:39,105 --> 00:25:41,174 took it to the Alamogordo Police Department. 561 00:25:41,207 --> 00:25:43,076 * * 562 00:25:43,076 --> 00:25:46,079 The letter was dated February 23, 1996. 563 00:25:46,112 --> 00:25:51,184 - The murder was on Monday, January 29, 1996. 564 00:25:51,217 --> 00:25:55,088 The watch commander started reading the letter to me. 565 00:25:55,088 --> 00:25:56,623 It was chilling to the bone in the sense 566 00:25:56,656 --> 00:26:00,226 that you have somebody that is taking credit for this 567 00:26:00,260 --> 00:26:01,795 and describing in great detail 568 00:26:01,828 --> 00:26:03,196 in how the murder was committed. 569 00:26:05,231 --> 00:26:07,033 - Very descriptive, 570 00:26:07,033 --> 00:26:09,703 to the point where they described 571 00:26:09,736 --> 00:26:12,806 how many times he was stabbed in the front 572 00:26:12,839 --> 00:26:15,408 and how many times he was stabbed in the back. 573 00:26:17,043 --> 00:26:19,879 It also describes another person 574 00:26:19,913 --> 00:26:23,950 that was at the scene of the homicide, 575 00:26:24,050 --> 00:26:28,188 and his name was Dominic. 576 00:26:28,221 --> 00:26:32,625 - The letter seems authentic, but Thien's murder 577 00:26:32,659 --> 00:26:34,928 has received national news coverage, 578 00:26:34,961 --> 00:26:37,063 so investigators need to make sure 579 00:26:37,063 --> 00:26:38,798 it's not a false confession. 580 00:26:40,233 --> 00:26:42,435 - The author of the letter wrote 581 00:26:42,469 --> 00:26:45,438 that when he approached the victim, 582 00:26:45,472 --> 00:26:47,073 he thought he was going to get robbed, 583 00:26:47,107 --> 00:26:49,642 so he took out a key and said, 584 00:26:49,676 --> 00:26:51,811 "All I've got is a key," and he held up the key. 585 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,783 We had withheld from everybody that there was a key 586 00:26:56,816 --> 00:26:58,485 found at that crime scene. 587 00:26:59,552 --> 00:27:01,254 The only person that would have known 588 00:27:01,287 --> 00:27:05,392 that there was a key there, besides the family, 589 00:27:05,425 --> 00:27:08,294 was the killer. 590 00:27:08,328 --> 00:27:10,030 - If the letter describing the murder 591 00:27:10,063 --> 00:27:12,032 was, in fact, written by the killer, 592 00:27:12,032 --> 00:27:14,868 one thing is made perfectly clear. 593 00:27:14,901 --> 00:27:18,204 The motive for the rage unleashed on Thien Ly 594 00:27:18,238 --> 00:27:19,439 was hate. 595 00:27:19,472 --> 00:27:20,740 - When I was covering this case, 596 00:27:20,774 --> 00:27:22,142 I got a chance to see this letter, 597 00:27:22,175 --> 00:27:25,745 and at first, it starts so casually. 598 00:27:25,779 --> 00:27:27,280 And then, in the middle of the letter, 599 00:27:27,313 --> 00:27:30,483 it takes a sharp turn into the macabre. 600 00:27:34,054 --> 00:27:37,057 "Oh, I killed a [...] a while ago. 601 00:27:37,057 --> 00:27:39,959 "Seen this guy rollerblading, and I had a knife. 602 00:27:40,060 --> 00:27:41,928 "I walked right up to him, and he was scared. 603 00:27:41,961 --> 00:27:44,264 I stabbed him to death at Tustin High School." 604 00:27:46,866 --> 00:27:49,769 The letter is a horror show 605 00:27:49,803 --> 00:27:53,440 that was propelled by racial bigotry. 606 00:27:53,473 --> 00:27:56,309 - The tone of the letter is almost congratulatory 607 00:27:56,343 --> 00:27:58,645 for what a great job the killer did 608 00:27:58,678 --> 00:28:02,082 and what a great time he had killing Thien Ly. 609 00:28:02,115 --> 00:28:05,018 [dramatic music] 610 00:28:05,018 --> 00:28:06,186 * * 611 00:28:06,219 --> 00:28:08,288 - This letter supercharges activity 612 00:28:08,321 --> 00:28:10,457 at the police department. 613 00:28:10,490 --> 00:28:11,725 It also raises the stakes. 614 00:28:13,193 --> 00:28:14,894 They can't let the author of the letter get away. 615 00:28:17,197 --> 00:28:20,333 This is obviously a deranged killer. 616 00:28:20,367 --> 00:28:25,739 * * 617 00:28:25,772 --> 00:28:28,241 - The letter was signed Jerry Lindberg. 618 00:28:28,274 --> 00:28:31,144 There was an address, but we had been told 619 00:28:31,177 --> 00:28:32,912 that he had moved out. 620 00:28:34,180 --> 00:28:37,083 - Tarpley sends detectives to New Mexico 621 00:28:37,117 --> 00:28:38,685 to grill Robert Delaney 622 00:28:38,718 --> 00:28:41,321 about Jerry Lindberg's whereabouts. 623 00:28:41,354 --> 00:28:43,890 In the meantime, he runs Lindberg's name 624 00:28:43,923 --> 00:28:45,692 through the police database 625 00:28:45,725 --> 00:28:49,095 and finds a criminal record for him in Monette, Missouri. 626 00:28:49,129 --> 00:28:51,197 But when he contacts police there, 627 00:28:51,231 --> 00:28:54,167 he uncovers a detail that sends the investigation 628 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:55,935 in a whole new direction. 629 00:28:55,969 --> 00:29:00,173 - We spoke to the Monette, Missouri, police department, 630 00:29:00,206 --> 00:29:03,710 and we said, "Do you know who Jerry Lindberg is?" 631 00:29:03,743 --> 00:29:05,412 to the corporal, 632 00:29:05,445 --> 00:29:07,380 and the corporal said, "Yes, I do. 633 00:29:07,414 --> 00:29:09,382 He is deceased." 634 00:29:09,416 --> 00:29:12,686 And I'm like, "Okay." 635 00:29:12,719 --> 00:29:14,654 I immediately start thinking 636 00:29:14,688 --> 00:29:17,891 this is headed towards unsolved. 637 00:29:17,924 --> 00:29:20,427 And I explain the circumstances of our case, 638 00:29:20,460 --> 00:29:22,929 and I said, "We have this homicide, 639 00:29:23,029 --> 00:29:24,698 "and the person that's writing this letter 640 00:29:24,731 --> 00:29:26,499 says he's Jerry Lindberg," and he says, "No," he goes, 641 00:29:26,533 --> 00:29:28,601 "that's Gunner Lindberg." 642 00:29:28,635 --> 00:29:32,706 - He said on Gunner Lindberg's 18th birthday, 643 00:29:32,739 --> 00:29:35,108 his brother Jerry committed suicide. 644 00:29:36,676 --> 00:29:38,478 And then Gunner took the identity 645 00:29:38,511 --> 00:29:41,081 of his deceased brother. 646 00:29:41,114 --> 00:29:42,916 - He said, "Gunner Lindberg is 647 00:29:42,949 --> 00:29:45,552 "a well-known violent criminal here, 648 00:29:45,585 --> 00:29:49,556 and he is now currently wanted here in the State of Missouri." 649 00:29:49,589 --> 00:29:52,392 - Tarpley and Williams learned that Gunner is pretending 650 00:29:52,425 --> 00:29:55,261 to be his brother because he's been running from the law 651 00:29:55,295 --> 00:29:57,263 for over a year. 652 00:29:57,297 --> 00:29:59,466 - Gunner Lindberg was a fugitive 653 00:29:59,499 --> 00:30:02,635 from the State of Missouri for attempted murder. 654 00:30:02,669 --> 00:30:04,804 - And then he fled the state, and there was 655 00:30:04,838 --> 00:30:06,973 an unlawful flight to avoid prosecution warrant 656 00:30:07,007 --> 00:30:08,375 from the FBI. 657 00:30:08,408 --> 00:30:10,977 - When detectives interview Robert Delaney, 658 00:30:11,011 --> 00:30:12,746 the recipient of Gunner's letter, 659 00:30:12,779 --> 00:30:15,615 he tells them he has no idea where Gunner is. 660 00:30:15,648 --> 00:30:17,384 And the more Tarpley and Williams 661 00:30:17,417 --> 00:30:18,752 find out about Gunner, 662 00:30:18,785 --> 00:30:21,454 the more desperate they are to locate him. 663 00:30:21,488 --> 00:30:23,923 - He had a prior list of crimes 664 00:30:23,957 --> 00:30:26,559 in California as well, 665 00:30:26,593 --> 00:30:28,161 from beating a farm worker 666 00:30:28,194 --> 00:30:31,164 to breaking in an elderly woman's house 667 00:30:31,197 --> 00:30:34,100 and hitting her in the face. 668 00:30:34,134 --> 00:30:38,038 Gunner is a seasoned criminal, no doubt. 669 00:30:38,705 --> 00:30:40,974 - We needed to find Gunner Lindberg. 670 00:30:41,007 --> 00:30:43,977 [dramatic music] 671 00:30:44,010 --> 00:30:49,082 * * 672 00:30:52,619 --> 00:30:55,522 [suspenseful rock music] 673 00:30:57,023 --> 00:30:58,958 [suspenseful music] 674 00:30:58,992 --> 00:31:02,295 - Investigators in Tustin, California, are on the hunt 675 00:31:02,328 --> 00:31:05,465 for a violent criminal named Gunner Lindberg, 676 00:31:05,498 --> 00:31:11,638 a man they suspect brutally murdered 24-year-old Thien Ly. 677 00:31:11,671 --> 00:31:14,207 So they searched the Tustin Police database 678 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,776 to see if Lindberg's had any recent run-ins 679 00:31:16,810 --> 00:31:18,945 with local law enforcement. 680 00:31:18,978 --> 00:31:22,182 - Gunner had assumed his brother's identity. 681 00:31:22,215 --> 00:31:23,983 So when we checked Jerry Lindberg 682 00:31:24,084 --> 00:31:25,285 in our database, 683 00:31:25,318 --> 00:31:27,987 it showed that there had been a field interview 684 00:31:28,088 --> 00:31:30,990 conducted on December 29, 1995, 685 00:31:31,091 --> 00:31:34,561 by a patrol officer at Tustin PD. 686 00:31:34,594 --> 00:31:36,229 - He was obviously doing something 687 00:31:36,262 --> 00:31:38,631 that caused an officer to ask him who he was. 688 00:31:40,700 --> 00:31:43,103 - They had stopped him. They had questioned him. 689 00:31:43,103 --> 00:31:46,106 - The traffic stop was four weeks before the murder. 690 00:31:46,106 --> 00:31:49,275 Police at the time found no reason to hold Lindberg, 691 00:31:49,309 --> 00:31:51,211 and the driver's license he gave them 692 00:31:51,244 --> 00:31:53,847 provides Tarpley and Williams with no clues 693 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,515 as to his whereabouts. 694 00:31:55,548 --> 00:31:58,418 - The police report also indicated 695 00:31:58,451 --> 00:32:00,787 that he had a companion in the car. 696 00:32:02,322 --> 00:32:04,424 - The name listed in the report 697 00:32:04,457 --> 00:32:07,494 is 17-year-old Dominic Christopher. 698 00:32:07,527 --> 00:32:10,163 Detectives recall a Dominic referenced 699 00:32:10,196 --> 00:32:12,599 in Lindberg's letter. 700 00:32:12,632 --> 00:32:15,101 - When we did the background, we learned 701 00:32:15,135 --> 00:32:19,606 that Donald Christopher was working at K-Mart 702 00:32:19,639 --> 00:32:20,840 with Gunner Lindberg, 703 00:32:20,874 --> 00:32:22,742 and that's how they became friends. 704 00:32:24,444 --> 00:32:27,914 - Unlike Lindberg, Christopher provided an invaluable piece 705 00:32:27,947 --> 00:32:30,350 of information during the field interview: 706 00:32:30,383 --> 00:32:33,086 a local PO box address. 707 00:32:33,086 --> 00:32:36,923 [suspenseful music] 708 00:32:36,956 --> 00:32:39,392 - We got to the post office, 709 00:32:39,426 --> 00:32:41,227 we got the box holder 710 00:32:41,261 --> 00:32:43,496 for that post office box, 711 00:32:43,530 --> 00:32:44,964 which came back to a residence 712 00:32:44,998 --> 00:32:47,801 here in Tustin on Pasadena Street. 713 00:32:48,668 --> 00:32:52,939 - It was Gunner Lindberg's uncle who had the apartment. 714 00:32:52,972 --> 00:32:55,275 We were able to put together a search warrant 715 00:32:55,308 --> 00:32:56,810 for their apartment. 716 00:32:58,478 --> 00:33:00,347 There were people who were assigned 717 00:33:00,380 --> 00:33:03,249 to surveil what we thought was the location 718 00:33:03,283 --> 00:33:05,518 of Dominic and Gunner. 719 00:33:07,354 --> 00:33:10,957 - Around midnight, the surveillance team 720 00:33:11,057 --> 00:33:16,229 saw both subjects going into apartment number 18. 721 00:33:16,262 --> 00:33:20,433 - On March 2, 1996, Tustin Police call in 722 00:33:20,467 --> 00:33:23,303 an Orange County Sheriff's Department SWAT unit. 723 00:33:23,336 --> 00:33:25,405 They quietly move into position 724 00:33:25,438 --> 00:33:26,840 outside the apartment building 725 00:33:26,873 --> 00:33:28,441 and wait. 726 00:33:28,475 --> 00:33:30,510 - We figured that they would be asleep. 727 00:33:30,543 --> 00:33:32,779 We didn't want to give them any opportunity 728 00:33:32,812 --> 00:33:35,281 to arm themselves. 729 00:33:35,315 --> 00:33:37,417 * * 730 00:33:37,450 --> 00:33:38,718 - Tustin Police officers, 731 00:33:38,752 --> 00:33:41,554 along with Orange County Sheriff's Department SWAT, 732 00:33:41,588 --> 00:33:43,690 took the door down. 733 00:33:49,529 --> 00:33:51,698 We arrested Gunner. 734 00:33:51,731 --> 00:33:52,932 He was asleep. 735 00:33:55,869 --> 00:33:59,239 Dominic jumped out of a window and ran down 736 00:33:59,272 --> 00:34:01,074 the back of the apartment complex, 737 00:34:01,107 --> 00:34:03,109 where he was caught and arrested. 738 00:34:08,081 --> 00:34:10,216 - When I walked into the apartment, 739 00:34:10,250 --> 00:34:11,785 I looked at Dominic Christopher. 740 00:34:11,818 --> 00:34:16,256 I saw essentially a scared kid. 741 00:34:18,758 --> 00:34:24,197 When I saw Gunner Lindberg, 742 00:34:24,230 --> 00:34:26,766 he had just the blackest eyes you've ever seen. 743 00:34:30,370 --> 00:34:31,971 - While Lindberg and Christopher 744 00:34:32,072 --> 00:34:34,908 are taken to the Tustin City Jail, 745 00:34:34,941 --> 00:34:36,676 detectives search the apartment 746 00:34:36,710 --> 00:34:40,547 and are alarmed by what's inside. 747 00:34:40,580 --> 00:34:43,583 - My name is Debora Lloyd, and I was the prosecutor 748 00:34:43,616 --> 00:34:48,188 on the Gunner Lindberg case in 1996 and 1997. 749 00:34:51,725 --> 00:34:54,427 When Tustin police department did their search warrant 750 00:34:54,461 --> 00:34:58,298 of Dominic and Gunner Lindberg's apartment, 751 00:34:58,331 --> 00:35:02,135 they found a treasure full of evidence. 752 00:35:02,168 --> 00:35:04,371 This--mostly a white supremacist. 753 00:35:07,173 --> 00:35:09,609 There were swastikas all over the place. 754 00:35:09,642 --> 00:35:10,944 There were papers 755 00:35:11,044 --> 00:35:12,912 in Gunner Lindberg's handwriting saying, 756 00:35:12,946 --> 00:35:14,180 "I love to kill the meat. 757 00:35:14,214 --> 00:35:16,950 Kill, Kill, Kill" in big letters. 758 00:35:20,954 --> 00:35:24,357 - And detectives find more than circumstantial evidence 759 00:35:24,391 --> 00:35:25,825 in the apartment. 760 00:35:27,894 --> 00:35:30,063 - Also in the room was a box, 761 00:35:30,063 --> 00:35:32,365 and it was called Gunner's box. 762 00:35:32,399 --> 00:35:33,900 - It was a cardboard box. 763 00:35:33,933 --> 00:35:35,935 There was drugs in there, 764 00:35:35,969 --> 00:35:39,139 but there were also black leather gloves 765 00:35:39,172 --> 00:35:43,076 that appeared to have blood stains on them. 766 00:35:43,076 --> 00:35:45,679 - Investigators bag the gloves for evidence 767 00:35:45,712 --> 00:35:49,416 and zero in on a single question: 768 00:35:49,449 --> 00:35:52,452 does the blood belong to Thien Ly? 769 00:35:52,485 --> 00:35:55,455 While they wait for results from the crime lab, 770 00:35:55,488 --> 00:35:57,791 detectives waste no time interviewing 771 00:35:57,824 --> 00:35:59,659 their two suspects, 772 00:35:59,693 --> 00:36:02,529 and one of them quickly comes clean. 773 00:36:02,562 --> 00:36:06,800 - It didn't take long for Dominic to tell the truth: 774 00:36:06,833 --> 00:36:09,135 that he was there. 775 00:36:09,169 --> 00:36:11,671 So after the Super Bowl, the boys go home, 776 00:36:11,705 --> 00:36:14,307 they smoke a little dope, they get hungry, 777 00:36:14,341 --> 00:36:17,143 and they go to a fast food place about 8:00, 778 00:36:17,177 --> 00:36:18,812 that whole time talking 779 00:36:18,845 --> 00:36:21,548 about how they wanted to kill somebody. 780 00:36:26,453 --> 00:36:28,755 They make their way through Tustin 781 00:36:28,788 --> 00:36:30,490 to the tennis courts. 782 00:36:30,523 --> 00:36:33,493 [suspenseful music] 783 00:36:33,526 --> 00:36:37,764 * * 784 00:36:43,970 --> 00:36:45,171 Dominic. 785 00:36:45,205 --> 00:36:48,074 He said he had, in fact, kicked Thien 786 00:36:48,108 --> 00:36:49,976 in the head several times. 787 00:36:52,112 --> 00:36:55,248 But that Gunner Lindberg had killed him. 788 00:37:01,388 --> 00:37:04,724 - Dominic Christopher was 17 at the time, 789 00:37:04,758 --> 00:37:06,760 and Dominic was kind of following 790 00:37:06,793 --> 00:37:08,561 in Gunner Lindberg's footsteps. 791 00:37:08,595 --> 00:37:11,197 In fact, even in the letter, Gunner Lindberg said, 792 00:37:11,231 --> 00:37:14,768 "I'm teaching Dominic to be like me." 793 00:37:14,801 --> 00:37:18,505 - On March 21, Dominic Christopher is charged 794 00:37:18,538 --> 00:37:20,340 with first-degree murder. 795 00:37:20,373 --> 00:37:22,542 A hearing is scheduled to determine 796 00:37:22,575 --> 00:37:25,412 whether he will be tried as an adult. 797 00:37:25,445 --> 00:37:27,881 With Gunner Lindberg still holding out, 798 00:37:27,914 --> 00:37:29,916 prosecutors are well aware 799 00:37:29,949 --> 00:37:31,885 that the entire fate of their case 800 00:37:31,918 --> 00:37:36,423 could hinge on a single pair of bloody gloves. 801 00:37:36,456 --> 00:37:38,692 - This was a big piece of evidence. 802 00:37:38,725 --> 00:37:42,796 So did those gloves have the DNA from Thien Ly on them? 803 00:37:47,167 --> 00:37:50,203 [suspenseful music] 804 00:37:54,941 --> 00:37:57,844 [suspenseful rock music] 805 00:37:59,412 --> 00:38:02,749 - When Tustin detectives find a pair of bloody gloves 806 00:38:02,782 --> 00:38:04,918 in Gunner Lindberg's apartment, 807 00:38:05,018 --> 00:38:06,786 they hope it's the piece of evidence 808 00:38:06,820 --> 00:38:09,589 that finally solves the murder of Thien Ly. 809 00:38:09,622 --> 00:38:12,392 - It took about a month to get the results on the gloves, 810 00:38:12,425 --> 00:38:16,262 and when it came back, it was a mixture of blood 811 00:38:16,296 --> 00:38:19,933 from Gunner Lindberg and Thien Ly. 812 00:38:22,168 --> 00:38:26,373 - In April 1996, Lindberg is arraigned on charges 813 00:38:26,406 --> 00:38:27,874 of first-degree murder 814 00:38:27,907 --> 00:38:30,477 with a special circumstance of attempted robbery, 815 00:38:30,510 --> 00:38:32,612 but the prosecution wants to add 816 00:38:32,645 --> 00:38:34,781 a racially motivated hate crime charge 817 00:38:34,814 --> 00:38:37,951 to increase the likelihood of a death sentence. 818 00:38:39,619 --> 00:38:41,721 - In order to convince the jury that this was 819 00:38:41,755 --> 00:38:45,091 an actual hate crime, you had to just use 820 00:38:45,125 --> 00:38:47,293 all of the evidence. 821 00:38:47,327 --> 00:38:50,864 And Robert Delaney was so important. 822 00:38:50,897 --> 00:38:53,600 - Robert Delaney is the person Lindberg sent 823 00:38:53,633 --> 00:38:56,336 the letter to in New Mexico. 824 00:38:56,369 --> 00:38:58,271 - My name is Carl Waddell. 825 00:38:58,304 --> 00:39:00,507 I'm a retired investigator for the Orange County 826 00:39:00,540 --> 00:39:02,075 District Attorney's Office. 827 00:39:03,877 --> 00:39:05,812 When I interviewed Robert Delaney, 828 00:39:05,845 --> 00:39:10,216 he told me that after he received the letter, 829 00:39:10,250 --> 00:39:12,619 he called Gunner. 830 00:39:12,652 --> 00:39:19,092 Gunner told him that he killed Ly for the racial movement. 831 00:39:19,759 --> 00:39:22,529 Gunner was a white supremacist. 832 00:39:23,797 --> 00:39:25,331 This kind of evidence, 833 00:39:25,365 --> 00:39:27,534 when it gets introduced to a jury, 834 00:39:27,567 --> 00:39:29,169 is very compelling 835 00:39:29,202 --> 00:39:32,439 because it shows Gunner Lindberg was a racist 836 00:39:32,472 --> 00:39:35,041 and that he would kill again and again 837 00:39:35,075 --> 00:39:36,676 because he got a thrill out of it. 838 00:39:39,312 --> 00:39:42,315 - In May 1997, Dominic Christopher 839 00:39:42,349 --> 00:39:45,185 is convicted as an adult of first-degree murder 840 00:39:45,218 --> 00:39:49,055 and sentenced to 25 years to life in prison. 841 00:39:49,055 --> 00:39:52,125 That summer, Gunner's trial begins. 842 00:39:52,158 --> 00:39:53,860 - I wanted to be in the courtroom. 843 00:39:53,893 --> 00:39:57,230 I wanted the jury and I wanted the killers to know 844 00:39:57,263 --> 00:39:59,165 where Thien came from, 845 00:39:59,199 --> 00:40:01,334 that he wasn't just a face. 846 00:40:01,368 --> 00:40:04,004 He had a life, he had a lot of things going on for him, 847 00:40:04,037 --> 00:40:06,906 he had family that loved him. 848 00:40:06,940 --> 00:40:10,343 - I didn't understand how vicious the attack was 849 00:40:10,377 --> 00:40:12,946 until the trial. 850 00:40:12,979 --> 00:40:15,582 That's when all the details came out. 851 00:40:15,615 --> 00:40:18,518 I tried to create an out-of-body situation 852 00:40:18,551 --> 00:40:20,587 where it's just my body sitting there 853 00:40:20,620 --> 00:40:23,089 because I had so much anger. 854 00:40:26,726 --> 00:40:28,828 - The senseless crime angers 855 00:40:28,862 --> 00:40:30,997 the men and women of the jury as well. 856 00:40:31,031 --> 00:40:32,766 They agree it was a hate crime 857 00:40:32,799 --> 00:40:35,502 and convict Lindberg of first-degree murder 858 00:40:35,535 --> 00:40:38,204 and hand down the maximum sentence. 859 00:40:38,238 --> 00:40:41,341 - On December 12th of 1997, the judge pronounced 860 00:40:41,374 --> 00:40:43,410 the death sentence for Gunner Lindberg. 861 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,549 - Lindberg's legal team appeals the punishment 862 00:40:49,582 --> 00:40:52,252 without success. 863 00:40:52,285 --> 00:40:56,256 - On August 28, 2008, the California Supreme Court 864 00:40:56,289 --> 00:41:00,260 upheld and confirmed the conviction of the murder, 865 00:41:00,293 --> 00:41:04,164 the attempted robbery, and the hate crime. 866 00:41:04,197 --> 00:41:07,567 This was the very first hate crime death penalty case 867 00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,069 in California. 868 00:41:11,705 --> 00:41:13,907 I think one of the important things about this case 869 00:41:13,940 --> 00:41:16,609 was definitely the hate crime allegation 870 00:41:16,643 --> 00:41:18,078 where we did get the death penalty. 871 00:41:18,078 --> 00:41:20,480 I think that's important to the community. 872 00:41:27,754 --> 00:41:30,724 - 27 years later, this crime was a hint 873 00:41:30,757 --> 00:41:32,959 of some of the challenges we have today. 874 00:41:33,993 --> 00:41:38,498 - We have many people who are in the public eye 875 00:41:38,531 --> 00:41:43,837 are overtly racist and overtly supporting hate. 876 00:41:43,870 --> 00:41:48,641 And it's getting that support in many aspects of America. 877 00:41:53,313 --> 00:41:56,349 - One of the saddest ways to frame this case 878 00:41:56,383 --> 00:41:59,786 is that on a dark tennis court in the middle of one 879 00:41:59,819 --> 00:42:02,155 of the richest counties and the most populous state 880 00:42:02,188 --> 00:42:05,492 and the most industrialized country in the world, 881 00:42:05,525 --> 00:42:07,761 the American nightmare killed the American dream. 882 00:42:11,264 --> 00:42:14,234 [soft music] 883 00:42:14,267 --> 00:42:16,202 * * 884 00:42:16,236 --> 00:42:17,971 - After he was cremated, we decided 885 00:42:18,071 --> 00:42:22,475 to spread his ashes in ocean, 886 00:42:22,509 --> 00:42:25,512 to let them float away to other parts of the world 887 00:42:25,545 --> 00:42:27,213 that he would have wanted to see. 888 00:42:29,149 --> 00:42:31,217 My brother was a free spirit, 889 00:42:31,251 --> 00:42:32,952 so every time I travel somewhere, 890 00:42:32,986 --> 00:42:34,187 I think about him. 891 00:42:39,693 --> 00:42:44,464 * * 892 00:42:44,497 --> 00:42:47,867 - My husband and I have two girls. 893 00:42:47,901 --> 00:42:50,470 I remind them of Uncle Thien. 894 00:42:50,503 --> 00:42:55,975 I feel sad that they don't have a chance to know him. 895 00:42:57,510 --> 00:42:59,913 They miss an opportunity to learn, 896 00:42:59,946 --> 00:43:02,682 to know how a great person he was. 897 00:43:05,051 --> 00:43:07,087 He always write notes. 898 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,456 These are his journals. 899 00:43:09,489 --> 00:43:12,459 "I live in today and not very far into tomorrow. 900 00:43:12,492 --> 00:43:15,061 "I do my best every minute of the day, 901 00:43:15,095 --> 00:43:17,697 "and when it's over, I know there's more to come. 902 00:43:17,731 --> 00:43:20,100 I just move on to the next one." 903 00:43:20,133 --> 00:43:23,103 [somber music] 904 00:43:23,136 --> 00:43:30,176 * *