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[playing "Hurt"]
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♪ I hurt myself today… ♪
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[Trent Reznor] The thing about "Hurt,"
more than any other song I've written,
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when I wrote it, I felt alone.
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You know.
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Lost.
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But things will be okay, you know? And…
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you're okay.
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[song continues]
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♪ What have I become… ♪
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[Hirway] Trent Reznor started making music
as Nine Inch Nails in 1988.
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His second album, The Downward Spiral,
was a dark concept album
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that hit number two on the charts
and sold millions of copies.
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"Hurt" is the last track on the album
and the last song he wrote for it.
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[Reznor] It feels like somebody
kind of walking around the rubble,
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having a chance
to maybe feel a reflection.
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[Hirway] Years later,
Johnny Cash recorded a cover of it,
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and that went multi-platinum too.
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Nowadays, Trent Reznor is also
an Oscar- and Emmy-winning composer,
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along with his now-bandmate Atticus Ross.
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But a couple decades earlier,
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Trent Reznor was mining
the darkest parts of his own life
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to finish The Downward Spiral.
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I'm Hrishikesh Hirway.
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This is Song Exploder.
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[theme music playing]
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[Reznor] When I look back at my youth,
it was not unhappy,
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but alone most of the time.
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I'm in rural Pennsylvania,
and I feel kind of stuck.
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You know,
I became acutely aware that there…
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was a world out there,
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and I would find comfort
kind of tuning into albums.
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Like Pink Floyd, The Wall.
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The music felt like a mystery
that you needed to unravel, you know.
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I could project into it
what I was feeling.
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And what I was hearing
seemed like it was written
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for me… uh, about me.
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["Another Brick in the Wall, Part 1"
plays]
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I could relate to the loneliness
and the pain,
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and I could put myself in that.
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And I thought, you know,
I wanted to crack that code.
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As a kid sitting at the piano,
I could learn my classical pieces,
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but sitting on my own,
my hands would just play music
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that felt like what I wanted to play.
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It started to feel like
I could channel something out.
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It was another language
I was able to communicate through.
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Initially, it was tiptoeing around things
and imitations
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of stuff I liked at the time,
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but what I hadn't done
is really sat down and…
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really tried to write.
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I'd avoided that.
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The experiment was
to answer the question
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of if I had anything to say.
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[playing "Your Touch"]
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♪ What if she touches with those… ♪
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It made me feel good
to take these feelings I had…
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Sadness, desperation,
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punching a wall,
a need to express something,
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turn it into something
that had some beauty to it.
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It wasn't safe, and it didn't feel like
it was coming from a protected place.
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It was just kind of naked emotion.
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♪ Hey, God ♪
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♪ Why are you doing this to me… ♪
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Unexpectedly,
it started to catch on with people.
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-[cheering]
-♪ Living up what I'm supposed to be… ♪
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We toured quite a bit
on Pretty Hate Machine, the first album.
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There was an agenda at the time
to not be mainstream.
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♪ Terrible lie… ♪
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I want to bend you to come to me
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rather than me to compromise to go to you.
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But there was trouble
with the record label,
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and it's hard
when you're writing album number two
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to not think about,
"Are they going to like this thing?"
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You know?
Should it be more like that thing?
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I have to be true to what I think is right
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at whatever expense that comes at.
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[suspenseful synth music playing]
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I know what the next record is,
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and I knew the title
was The Downward Spiral.
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It had an elaborate kind of storyline
for it.
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I had a timeline written out
in a notebook.
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Here's the arc of the story.
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['Heresy" by Nine Inch Nails plays]
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You know, Downward Spiral was the story
of someone trying to find salvation
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through sex and drugs
and self-destruction and self-loathing,
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and trying to find purpose and reason.
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With the story of The Downward Spiral
kind of at its conclusion,
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the record starts to get manic
and abstract…
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hallucinogenic even.
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Madness has set in,
and it's not going to resolve itself.
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"Hurt" was really kind of an afterthought.
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It just felt like it could be
a little coda to the end of the record
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that reflects back with a sense of loss
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and regret and longing
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that might make the whole record
feel more powerful and interesting.
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[Hirway] So I got the original tracks
from the tape,
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and it's really different
from what the actual, final song is.
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-["Hurt" plays]
-There is a main piano part
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running through it
that isn't actually in the final song.
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[piano melody playing]
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♪ I hurt myself today ♪
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♪ To see if I still feel… ♪
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Did you write it on the piano?
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I understand the piano
more than any other instrument.
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I remember sitting at a piano,
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and I got out of the way,
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and I just let it come out.
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But I didn't want it to seem
like a piano ballad.
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I wanted it to feel acoustic-based
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and kind of broken down,
like the character.
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You have to kind of lean in
to even hear what's happening.
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But I like the idea that you have
to work harder to get to it.
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There's a kind of warble
on the whole track
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to add to that sense of,
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"I just found this recording."
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Here's something that feels dusty
and damaged and lacking confidence
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in the rubble of whatever just happened.
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♪ I focus on the pain ♪
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♪ The only thing that's real… ♪
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I haven't listened back
to this track for a while.
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♪ The needle tears a hole ♪
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-What do you hear in your voice?
-I'm out of tune a lot.
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I'm singing it extremely quiet.
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I'd guess that would have come
after a number of frustrating takes
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of it feeling too sung and less emotional.
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That's me trying to sound quiet
and sincere.
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Just feeling the weird shame and exposure
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of showing something intimate
to the world,
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but it wasn't coming across right.
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And I remember being frustrated
that I wish I could sing like Bowie.
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I wish I had that instrument, you know.
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I wanted it to feel less accessible.
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I needed to kind of hide inside the music.
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And I figured, I'm producing it,
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so turn the vocal down, you know?
[chuckles]
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Although he works in a similar way,
he was a very different person then.
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Mm-hmm.
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And lyrically…
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-he was pretty poignant.
-Yeah.
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[Moulder] So it probably showed a little
bit of vulnerability on his part about it.
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But also, a credit to him
that even if he was vulnerable…
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He did it.
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…he stepped up.
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He did it himself.
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With Trent, I don't know if people realize
how important the lyrics are to him.
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-It's the most important thing.
-Yeah.
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[Moulder] If he plays a track, he'll
always put the lyrics in front of you.
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The lyrics, to him, are obviously
the reason for the track.
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[Reznor] ♪ I focus on the pain ♪
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♪ The only thing that's real ♪
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It's not in the center of the track.
It's panned off to one side.
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[chuckles] Yeah, I told you,
I want to be hiding in the track.
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[distorted echoing]
♪ You could have it all ♪
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♪ My empire of dirt ♪
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-You've really messed up the sound.
-[laughs]
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It's distressed in how you're hearing it.
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It's something you have to lean in
to kind of…
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listen, if you're interested.
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Is there a lyric in the song
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that especially sticks with you today?
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The reason I like to shy away
from talking about lyrics is
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it can shed too much light
on what my intent was.
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To me, it's about your experience
with that song and what it means to you
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and how it feels to you,
and I've had many songs ruined
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by the writer telling me
what they meant by that
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or correcting what I thought
the lyric was, which was way better.
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But was it hard to figure out
how you wanted to sing those words?
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What are you getting at?
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Are you tricking me into just doing…
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-Talking about the lyrics.
-[both chuckle]
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["Hurt" bassline playing]
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What I was going through
around the writing of Downward Spiral
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was not knowing who I was anymore.
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I'd see myself as the kid in the bedroom
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listening to records,
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and I wasn't sure
who the guy on stage was.
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-[audience cheering]
-[Reznor] You fucking pigs!
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[band cheering]
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That was getting distorted
and becoming accentuated
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and a caricature of self, I think.
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Add that to someone ill-equipped
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to deal with attention or fame.
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I've always had a sadness and a sense
of abandonment, I think, haunting me,
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and never feeling like I fit in anywhere
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and always feeling like an outsider.
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It's not rational. It just happens often.
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Maybe I'm the guy
that needs a couple beers…
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-I don't give a fuck.
-…or whatever it might be
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to understand who I am.
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And, "Now I feel better," you know?
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"Now I feel more confident
in this new outfit I've got on."
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It was a ripe scenario
for your personality to distort.
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That was the best fucking time
I've ever had in my life.
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Exploit it any way you want it.
I don't give a fuck.
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["Hurt" by Nine Inch Nails plays]
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I was trying to find a purpose
and salvation
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and sense of place
and just not to feel bad.
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♪ I wear this crown of shit ♪
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♪ Upon my liar's chair ♪
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♪ Full of broken thoughts ♪
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♪ I cannot repair ♪
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[wind whistling effect playing]
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[Hirway] The sound that the song
actually begins with is this.
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-[Reznor] A favorite sound of ours.
-What is that?
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[Reznor] There's a guy
that tuned our studio, named Coco.
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One of the machines
he uses to tune the room
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was this ancient-looking
science-fiction box
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that sent out different tune noises
at different frequencies,
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but it's a really beautiful sound.
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We sampled those sounds
and those became…
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I use them all the time.
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[wind whistling effect playing]
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-[Hirway] Then there's this other layer.
-[static buzzing effect playing]
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I'd been thinking
about sound design in films,
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how it can make you uncomfortable
by hiding some things in there
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that subconsciously
can make you feel a certain way,
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because that's what the record was about.
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[wind whistling effect playing]
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I was very much inspired
by the films of David Lynch.
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Not so much what the music was doing,
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but what sound was doing.
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There's a radiator,
and I feel like I'm going crazy.
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Why is that? Oh, 'cause that humming sound
in the room is super loud.
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It miraculously could make you feel
incredibly uncomfortable.
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[chuckles]
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It's not all meant to just repulse you,
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but to be able
to emotionally set the stage
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for what I was trying to get across.
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So we started laying in subliminal sounds
throughout the whole record.
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[discordant guitar notes clanging]
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When the chorus comes in,
there are a number of guitars
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all playing the same thing.
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We just would tune it to open strings
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and overdub several passes.
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What was important was that it felt naive
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and it felt imprecise
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and contribute
to the narrative of the song,
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which was, this isn't secure.
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[twanging guitar notes echoing]
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[string effects playing]
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[Hirway] I loved the sound,
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and I couldn't wrap my head around
what it was,
243
00:13:44,990 --> 00:13:46,910
and I still don't understand what it is.
244
00:13:49,245 --> 00:13:51,785
[Reznor] I was actually thinking
about this sound.
245
00:13:52,498 --> 00:13:55,538
We've come up with a trick
where we could take a note
246
00:13:56,126 --> 00:13:57,496
on whatever instrument.
247
00:13:57,586 --> 00:13:59,376
That sounds like strings, but I'm not…
248
00:13:59,463 --> 00:14:02,093
Like violin,
but I'm not sure if it was that.
249
00:14:02,174 --> 00:14:05,554
Feed it for a second into,
like, an infinite reverb,
250
00:14:06,095 --> 00:14:07,885
and it gets locked into a tone
251
00:14:07,972 --> 00:14:11,312
that sounds almost pipe organ-y
a little bit.
252
00:14:11,976 --> 00:14:14,266
Because it's not coming out
of a synthesizer,
253
00:14:14,353 --> 00:14:17,193
it's not quite in tune.
254
00:14:17,273 --> 00:14:18,693
It's not quite right.
255
00:14:18,774 --> 00:14:19,824
It has a…
256
00:14:20,484 --> 00:14:22,784
It feels, um, human…
257
00:14:22,862 --> 00:14:25,952
and that was meant to turn the lights up.
258
00:14:26,657 --> 00:14:28,327
You've been underwater.
259
00:14:29,201 --> 00:14:33,371
Bring you up to kind of emphasize
the climax of the song.
260
00:14:33,455 --> 00:14:35,455
[playing "Hurt"]
261
00:14:36,709 --> 00:14:39,839
♪ What have I become? ♪
262
00:14:43,507 --> 00:14:46,587
♪ My sweetest friend… ♪
263
00:14:47,303 --> 00:14:49,143
I remember sitting at the piano,
264
00:14:49,221 --> 00:14:53,481
and when the chorus
of "What have I become…"
265
00:14:54,101 --> 00:14:56,351
This just felt right, you know?
266
00:14:56,437 --> 00:14:58,767
I got goose bumps now
just thinking about it.
267
00:14:58,856 --> 00:15:00,016
[song continues]
268
00:15:00,691 --> 00:15:05,201
♪ You could have it all… ♪
269
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:07,990
I want you to feel a certain way.
270
00:15:08,073 --> 00:15:11,243
It's not about amazing guitar solo.
271
00:15:12,494 --> 00:15:13,954
Fantastic groove.
272
00:15:14,496 --> 00:15:18,786
It's goose bumps.
That's the part that matters the most.
273
00:15:18,876 --> 00:15:22,456
♪ I will make you hurt… ♪
274
00:15:23,672 --> 00:15:26,552
When I finished it,
I'd had the artwork and everything.
275
00:15:27,051 --> 00:15:28,301
Here's the album. [chuckles]
276
00:15:28,969 --> 00:15:32,139
I think I said, "I'm sorry,"
because there's no single on there.
277
00:15:32,222 --> 00:15:35,312
I don't think there's anything
you can even play on the radio.
278
00:15:35,392 --> 00:15:39,062
I thought this would be
the self-indulgent record
279
00:15:39,146 --> 00:15:40,056
off to the side,
280
00:15:40,147 --> 00:15:43,067
-but it exploded.
-[audience cheering]
281
00:15:45,069 --> 00:15:48,609
[Hirway] The Downward Spiral came out
in March 1994.
282
00:15:48,697 --> 00:15:50,567
It was a critical and commercial hit.
283
00:15:50,658 --> 00:15:52,788
It debuted at number two
on Billboard charts.
284
00:15:53,911 --> 00:15:57,751
[Reznor] I think I wrote good songs,
but I tried to not make them as obvious.
285
00:15:58,415 --> 00:16:01,415
There's hooks, but sometimes
you don't hear them the first time.
286
00:16:01,502 --> 00:16:03,842
You might have to work to listen.
It requires more work.
287
00:16:05,130 --> 00:16:07,550
You said that you wish
you could sing like Bowie,
288
00:16:08,300 --> 00:16:09,640
but then you actually…
289
00:16:09,718 --> 00:16:11,798
You performed this song with David Bowie.
290
00:16:11,887 --> 00:16:13,307
Yeah. Yeah.
291
00:16:13,389 --> 00:16:14,219
[playing "Hurt"]
292
00:16:14,306 --> 00:16:19,306
♪ I hurt myself today ♪
293
00:16:22,314 --> 00:16:26,034
♪ To see if I still feel ♪
294
00:16:26,610 --> 00:16:29,780
♪ I focus… ♪
295
00:16:29,863 --> 00:16:32,663
I couldn't believe it was real.
It really felt like…
296
00:16:33,909 --> 00:16:35,909
how much better does it get than this?
297
00:16:35,995 --> 00:16:39,955
♪ The needle tears a hole… ♪
298
00:16:41,709 --> 00:16:44,459
Being able to stand on stage
next to that guy,
299
00:16:44,545 --> 00:16:46,165
you know, who's my hero…
300
00:16:47,089 --> 00:16:49,429
That voice is singing
this beautiful harmony
301
00:16:49,508 --> 00:16:52,008
with that song I wrote in my bedroom.
302
00:16:53,262 --> 00:16:54,142
…was…
303
00:16:55,139 --> 00:16:56,309
just mind-blowing.
304
00:16:56,390 --> 00:16:59,350
[both] ♪ What have I become? ♪
305
00:17:03,230 --> 00:17:06,070
♪ My sweetest friend ♪
306
00:17:08,485 --> 00:17:10,605
♪ Everyone… ♪
307
00:17:10,696 --> 00:17:13,566
I haven't listened to that version
of that for some time.
308
00:17:13,657 --> 00:17:15,327
You know, it really felt…
309
00:17:16,994 --> 00:17:17,914
validating.
310
00:17:17,995 --> 00:17:19,365
[audience cheering]
311
00:17:19,455 --> 00:17:24,415
[remixed voice screams]
312
00:17:27,629 --> 00:17:30,089
I thought that maybe
when I reached all these goals,
313
00:17:30,174 --> 00:17:31,884
I'd find some sort of peace.
314
00:17:31,967 --> 00:17:35,297
I didn't, and now it's like I'm more
miserable now than I ever was.
315
00:17:35,763 --> 00:17:37,933
My monster
really is my own head right now.
316
00:17:38,015 --> 00:17:40,845
I'm just trying to, uh, come to terms
with some things.
317
00:17:40,934 --> 00:17:43,774
I think what I do best
is express myself through music,
318
00:17:43,854 --> 00:17:46,484
but at the same time,
it's a lot of reopening wounds,
319
00:17:46,565 --> 00:17:50,525
and somehow the elusive happiness
or contentedness
320
00:17:50,611 --> 00:17:53,951
seems always a couple blocks away.
321
00:17:54,031 --> 00:17:56,031
[playing "Hurt" piano melody]
322
00:17:57,242 --> 00:18:00,582
You know, in the context of that album,
I was exploring ways
323
00:18:00,662 --> 00:18:03,622
to make pain go away.
324
00:18:05,709 --> 00:18:07,169
After that record came out,
325
00:18:07,252 --> 00:18:11,592
I had a moment,
several years into addiction.
326
00:18:11,673 --> 00:18:16,103
♪ What have I become… ♪
327
00:18:16,178 --> 00:18:18,718
How did I… How did this happen?
328
00:18:19,556 --> 00:18:23,056
♪ My sweetest friend… ♪
329
00:18:23,811 --> 00:18:25,941
I mean, I realized
that story I had kind of written
330
00:18:26,021 --> 00:18:29,021
about someone self-destructing was…
331
00:18:29,108 --> 00:18:32,188
I was doing all those things.
332
00:18:33,445 --> 00:18:36,115
It summarizes a lot I've gone through.
333
00:18:38,617 --> 00:18:41,247
Then, years later,
"Hurt" gets another life
334
00:18:41,328 --> 00:18:43,248
by Johnny Cash covering it.
335
00:18:43,330 --> 00:18:44,920
[playing "Hurt"]
336
00:18:45,624 --> 00:18:49,464
♪ I hurt myself today ♪
337
00:18:51,255 --> 00:18:54,715
♪ To see if I still feel… ♪
338
00:18:55,217 --> 00:18:57,177
[Hirway] When Johnny Cash's cover
came out,
339
00:18:57,761 --> 00:18:59,931
did your relationship
to your lyrics change?
340
00:19:00,013 --> 00:19:01,273
To a degree, yeah.
341
00:19:01,348 --> 00:19:02,928
To hear it get juxtaposed
342
00:19:04,143 --> 00:19:05,853
on top of this huge life
343
00:19:05,936 --> 00:19:07,766
at a time in his life
344
00:19:07,855 --> 00:19:10,725
where it took on additional significance
345
00:19:11,692 --> 00:19:13,242
felt very meaningful.
346
00:19:13,944 --> 00:19:16,914
♪ What have I become? ♪
347
00:19:19,950 --> 00:19:22,540
♪ My sweetest friend ♪
348
00:19:24,580 --> 00:19:27,500
♪ Everyone I know ♪
349
00:19:28,208 --> 00:19:32,838
♪ Goes away in the end… ♪
350
00:19:34,965 --> 00:19:38,545
[Reznor] At the time, I was unsure
about my ability to write
351
00:19:38,635 --> 00:19:42,345
and my relevance, and I felt adrift.
352
00:19:43,682 --> 00:19:48,152
That song reared up again
to kind of let me know
353
00:19:48,228 --> 00:19:49,398
things will be okay.
354
00:19:50,647 --> 00:19:53,147
It just felt like a friend almost,
like a hug.
355
00:19:55,485 --> 00:19:56,735
[song ends]
356
00:19:56,820 --> 00:19:59,110
If you'd have asked me
when I was in my 20s,
357
00:19:59,198 --> 00:20:03,238
do I think I'll be playing the
Nine Inch Nails in my 50s or even live,
358
00:20:03,327 --> 00:20:04,447
you know, I…
359
00:20:04,536 --> 00:20:06,326
I don't think you would have heard…
360
00:20:07,206 --> 00:20:09,246
"Yes, for sure," you know, from me.
361
00:20:09,333 --> 00:20:10,883
[audience cheering]
362
00:20:10,959 --> 00:20:12,789
We usually end concerts with "Hurt,"
363
00:20:12,878 --> 00:20:16,128
and we have for the last hundred years
that we've been playing.
364
00:20:16,215 --> 00:20:18,215
-[playing "Hurt"]
-[audience cheering]
365
00:20:19,134 --> 00:20:21,474
Now I've sang this countless times…
366
00:20:22,346 --> 00:20:24,846
and I sing it differently
because I've lived in it.
367
00:20:25,974 --> 00:20:28,524
♪ My sweetest friend… ♪
368
00:20:29,895 --> 00:20:32,515
And to be able to come up for air
and look back,
369
00:20:33,523 --> 00:20:34,823
"How did I turn into this?"
370
00:20:34,900 --> 00:20:36,360
[song continues]
371
00:20:40,239 --> 00:20:41,909
[song intensifies]
372
00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,300
Having played that song
countless times live…
373
00:21:01,134 --> 00:21:03,644
I'm always in the moment of that.
374
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:05,010
I remember how I felt.
375
00:21:06,723 --> 00:21:09,433
It always is quiet, and you feel like,
376
00:21:09,518 --> 00:21:11,728
"I am making a connection with people."
377
00:21:12,521 --> 00:21:16,111
For someone that doesn't feel
that comfortable around people, it…
378
00:21:17,943 --> 00:21:19,363
It's powerful.
379
00:21:23,699 --> 00:21:26,199
[Hirway] And now here's "Hurt"
by Nine Inch Nails.
380
00:21:27,035 --> 00:21:29,035
["Hurt" plays]
381
00:26:31,089 --> 00:26:32,089
[song ends]