He vandalized your car.
He started screaming and started yelling.
- She cussed at me. - When I showed up,
I told my son, I said, "Hey, let me figure out what's going on here."
Why didn't you say to him, "Don't touch somebody else's property"?
That would sound right on the money to moi.
This is Judy Justice.
Morgan Larsen is suing defendant Chris Bumgardner,
for vandalism after his 16-year-old son damaged her car.
Court come to order. All rise.
Have a seat, everyone.
Hello, Judge. Case 2101.
Lawson versus Bumgardner.
- Thank you. - Welcome.
Ms. Lawson, it is your claim that the defendant's son--
I assume that's this young man over here--
vandalized your car,
and he vandalized your car by smashing in a side mirror.
Yes, ma'am.
Which required you to be without a car for a day while they fixed it,
so you want his father, who was actually present at the time,
- to pay for the damage. - Yes, ma'am.
From what I gather, this happened on Father's Day,
- which was June 19th of this year. - Yes.
And you were going over to visit your father?
- Yes. - For Father's Day.
Stand up.
But I gather from your complaint, was he sleeping?
- Yes, he was. - Okay.
Some sort of an altercation happened,
which you'll tell me about in a moment.
- His father was called? - Yes, ma'am.
His father came. This kerfuffle continued.
And when they were on their way out, this young man, whose name is...
- Kaden Bumgardner. - Kaden.
- Kaden smashed in your passenger mirror.
And his father says, well, he actually saw him do that,
but it was just pushing in the window, the mirror,
and really all you had to do was pull it out,
and it would have been fine.
- That's your defense? - Yes, ma'am.
Okay, so let's start out when you arrived at your father's house.
What time?
I arrived at my father's about... I would say about 11:00, 11:15.
Okay. What happened?
And it woke up Kaden in the process. Kaden got upset.
What did he say? How did you know he was upset?
He started screaming and pretty much saying,
"Why the heck are you coming in here, waking everybody up?
- You have no right to." - Okay.
And then after that, Kaden got up and started yelling,
started punching the walls, um, screaming.
My father went in there, and then his father, Chris,
ended up getting called to come get Kaden.
How far do you live from where Ms. Larsen's father lives?
- About seven miles away. - How old is your son?
- He's 16. - Is he the oldest one of your children?
The youngest.
Any other children at home other than him?
- No, ma'am. - So he's the baby, and he's home.
- Yes. - Who sets the rules for him?
- Well, I do. - Where did you think he was going?
No, no, I knew he was over at--
they had something to do for Mother's Day...
- and then... - No, it was Father's Day.
I know, but I'm saying for the entire...
Mother's Day is in May, Father's Day is in June.
- They usually don't have carryovers. - They had something planned.
I don't know.
But, uh, anyhow, yeah, he was over there.
Times have changed. Life has changed.
The only time you got to sleep outside your house
when I was growing up was when you
were outside in a pine box or a white dress.
- That was it. Those were your choices. - Yes, ma'am.
That's the way you could leave your parents' house.
Right?
I chose the dress.
All right. Now, Kaden,
I'm gonna come around to you,
because, you know, we're not talking about somebody
losing two pints of blood...
- Yeah. - ...or somebody losing a finger.
Yeah.
I know what it's like to wake up a teenager at 11:30 in the morning.
I'm usually ready for dinner at 11:30 in the morning.
But teenagers, you know, they're still growing, so they sleep late.
But you were particularly annoyed when Ms. Larsen came in, right?
- Yes. - Why?
Well, she did put it the right way,
but she didn't put it the right way because...
- Just, uh... tell me why. - Well, she...
- Don't look at her, talk to me. - She didn't just wake her up.
She came in there loud.
When she walked in, Kaden, to a room in her father's house...
- Mm-hmm. - ...what did she say?
And tell me in what tone of voice she said it.
See, she said it in, like, an excited voice,
but not a mean-- not, like, a mad voice. Excited voice.
All right. And that got you mad?
- No, that's not what got me mad. - What got you mad?
By the time I could even finish my sentence,
she's already busted in through the door
and was in my face saying, "You got something to say to me?"
Just a second. You're not following me.
She came in and the first thing you said was,
she was talking too loud, and I want to know what you said to her.
I didn't say nothing to her.
- Nothing? - Nothing.
- I ain't even look at her. - And then she left.
She cussed at me, but then she walked in there and said...
- Who cussed at you? - Her.
- She later said... - Just a second.
I didn't get to that part, that she cussed you.
If you didn't say anything to her, what would she cuss you?
'Cause she got a phone call saying that she wants me
to get ran out of the house. That's how this all started.
Just a second. That's a different story, okay.
So, what you're saying to me is you believe that she came over
for the purpose of getting you out of the house.
I believe so, yes. 'Cause that's what I got told.
Well, let us assume for a moment that's true.
That would sound right to me.
Get him out of the house. It's 11:30 in the morning on Father's Day.
We want to have a party here. Get him out of the house.
That would sound right on the money to moi.
Right on the money. I mean, if that's what it was about.
So, I don't care if that's what it was about or not.
Okay, your father comes.
What happened when you got there, sir?
When I showed up, I went to the door and knocked on it.
They answered the door.
- It was pretty chaotic. - Look... look at me.
It was pretty chaotic.
- Describe what chaotic is. - Okay.
There was a bunch of yelling and screaming going on
between Kaden, my son, and the plaintiff...
- And Ms. Larsen. - Ms. Larsen, yes.
And, uh, I told my son, I said, "Hey, you just need to step outside
and let me figure out what's going on here, and I'll be right out."
I tried to talk to Mark. Mark come out of the room.
- Who's Mark? - That's the father.
Uh, he was being very disrespectful, he said,
and he said he wanted him to leave.
I said, "Okay, that's no problem. I'll get him out of here."
Just a second. The father came out of the room
- and said, "I want Kaden to leave." - Right.
And did he leave?
When I come and got him, we left, yes, we did.
- And he walked out the front door? - Yes, he did.
And when he walked out the front door, he passed the plaintiff's car?
- Yes, I believe so. - What do you mean? You wrote it
- in your answer, sir. - Yes, I did.
- So the answer is yes. - Yes.
And you saw him do what to the mirror?
Don't minimize what he did.
I would have slapped him upside the head if I saw him take his hand
and knock off somebody's mirror.
I really didn't mean that. I don't believe in corporal punishment.
Amen.
And later today...
What do you think that I think of a person who says,
"Okay, I'll go with you through this very sad time,"
someone who I've been close and intimate with for months,
"but it's going to cost you $900."
Morgan Larsen claims Chris Bumgardner's 16-year-old son,
Kaden, vandalized her car.
- Now, you saw him do what to the mirror? - Push it in.
Okay. Very good.
Now, do you have photographs of the pushed-in mirror?
- I do. - I'd like to see it.
- Okay, one moment. - Just for my own curiosity,
you knew that it was wrong for him to touch that mirror.
- Yes, ma'am. - Okay.
And if what you say is he just pushed the mirror in
and all it had to do was be,
you believe, to be clicked out...
- I believed it to be that, yeah. - Just... why didn't you do that?
Why didn't you say to him, "Don't touch somebody else's property."
- That's what this is all about. - Well, I believe I did say that to him.
Just a second. But then why didn't you
pull out the mirror if that's all it was?
If you say the only thing wrong with the mirror is that
it has to be pulled out, why didn't you do that?
You didn't see him touch the mirror?
- No, I did not. - No. You were there.
- She was right behind us. - She didn't see it. You saw it.
So, my only question to you is, if you saw it and it was that minor thing,
and you know what it is,
either you can click the mirror in and then you pull it out.
I'm always afraid to click it out, that I'm going to break it.
Exactly.
You're not suggesting that anybody else
touched this mirror to damage it? No. Okay, let's see.
What did he use on the mirror, sir?
- What did he use to hit the mirror? - I believe it was his hand.
When you say you believe it was his hand, did you see what was in his hand?
- He had nothing in his hand. - Did his hand get bloody?
- No. - OK.
Kevin, would you turn these over to the defendant, please?
And get from the plaintiff an estimate for the damage.
- That's not much. - Well, they ripped it off there.
Well, yeah, clearly. 'Cause that's not what it would look like when I seen...
'Cause when he walked by, he just flipped and...
- Okay. - And I said, "Now, Kaden, that's enough."
So you had a $500 deductible on your insurance?
- Yes, I did. - And you had it fixed?
- Yes, I did. - Okay. And you paid $442.74.
Good. How long did it take them to fix it?
I would say about a month with the parts being on back order.
Oh, but you had the use of the car all that time?
- No. - Of course you did. Okay.
Just want to see what you have for a car rental.
Your Honor, I don't-- I don't understand this car rental part of it.
I've been without a mirror before.
Sir, you're not allowed to drive without two mirrors.
There was one in the cab as well, that's two mirrors, isn't it?
I don't know what you're asking me, sir.
Because at some point, you just have to take the car,
and let's say it takes a day once you get the parts.
At some point you have to take the car in
and you're without a car for a day.
Well, then you can either be without a car for a day
or you can rent a car for a day.
I'm not giving her a rental for a month. I'm not crazy.
You know, there's a certain amount of inconvenience that
one endures when somebody else vandalizes a piece of their property.
And that's part of the punishment.
Yeah. I'm glad you understand. Don't minimize what he did.
Well, I'm not minimizing...
I would have slapped him upside the head
if I saw him take his hand and knock off somebody's mirror.
I really didn't mean that. I don't believe in corporal punishment.
Amen.
I don't think you needed 15 days to fix this.
I didn't think so either.
Well, I certainly don't think so, but you're entitled to a day's car rental,
so I put that down as $200, including everything.
$642.74, judgment for the plaintiff. Thank you very much.
This court is adjourned.
I didn't think that I needed to pay the whole 1300 out of pocket.
I'm just glad someone finally held them accountable for what they did.
The mirror I was walking past, I just hit it. Bam! You know what I mean?
I finally am getting reimbursed for the money I had to pay.
I knew what I was doing, and when I did it, I did regret it after I did it.
You know what I mean?
I feel like some people need to control their children better.
There's also a sign of the times that this father
did not own up to what he saw.
I will say he was on the more responsible side of parents
than some that we've seen here.
He said, "I said, Kaden, what are you doing?
This is not how you act. This is not how you behave."
So that I almost appreciated.
But he didn't take it as far as you or I would have liked.
As far as, knock at the door. "I know this is hot.
My son did something wrong. I'm going to pay for it...
- Yep. - "...whatever it is."
I have to come into the 21st century kicking and screaming.
- I'll try and help you as much as I can. - Thanks.
Case 2105, Davey versus Miller.
All parties, please step forward.
Melissa Davey is suing her ex-boyfriend
Joseph Miller for an unpaid loan.
Mr. Miller, I think I'm going to start with you today
just 'cause I have to kind of shake it up for myself,
otherwise I get stale.
You and Ms. Davey were sort of in a relationship for a brief period of time.
- Yes, Judge. - Never lived together?
No.
There came a time when you wanted a new car.
Not a new car but a better car.
- Yes. - You wanted a better car...
because you wanted to use that car as a driver for Uber.
- Yes. - And you needed a down payment.
- Yes. - And according to what I've read
from Ms. Davey and what you seem to acknowledge in your answer,
Ms. Davey loaned you $1200.
That is correct.
Things didn't work out, which happens.
You paid her back $300.
- Yes. - Did not pay her back $900.
Correct.
So that would make it easy, except that you have a defense.
- Correct. - And I'm going to let you tell me
and the rest of the world what that defense is
and show the world what a prince of a guy you are.
I hope I can do that. Uh, well, um...
You're no longer together.
- Correct. - You owe her $900.
- No. - Well, yes.
You just acknowledged that you paid her three
and you owe nine 'cause she gave you twelve.
I owed nine.
I said at that point you owed nine. You're no longer together.
Yeah, I'm sorry, I-I misheard you then.
Okay, well, I sympathize with that because I do a lot of mishearing myself.
But what I said to you was at the time you broke up, you owed her $900.
That is correct.
Now you're going to pick it up from there
and tell me and the rest of the world what your defense is.
- Um... - 'Cause I've read it.
I just want to hear it from you.
At the time of our breakup, you are correct.
I did owe Ms. Davey $900
and had told her that I would continue to pay
on the debt that was owed.
Okay. And what was the month and year of your breakup?
End of April, maybe.
- End of May. - End of May.
Okay. End of May. Broke up owing $900.
And you said...
I tried to be cordial and have conversations periodically
with Miss Davey, and they did not go well.
And then Miss Davey had to put her...
No, no. You tried to have conversations with her with a view towards what?
Just to reassure her that I was going to pay her back the rest of the money.
Okay. So she would call you and say, "Where's my money?"
No, I would send her a text and kind of chat,
and then I would give her a quick call and say hello
and we would have just a little chat every now and then
just to remind her that, hey, I will pay you back the money.
That sounds so off, Mr. Miller.
People don't usually call an ex-girlfriend
who they owe $900 to and say,
Hey, by the way, I know I'm going to pay you back the money.
I just need a little time.
That usually comes from the other side, contacting them
and saying, I would like my money.
Typically, you are correct that most people, if you owe the money,
you don't contact the person that is owed the money.
I didn't want her to do that.
I didn't want to have to have her come to me
and be like, "Hey, where is my money?"
So you break up the end of May. Did you give her any money in June?
I gave her one in April and one in July, of $154.
So at the time that you broke up, you had only given her $150.
Correct.
Later on, she kept bothering you, you were reassuring her,
and in July, you gave her another 150.
- Correct. - Keep going. I still get $900.
Where does it say she's forgiven your debt?
The very top one, I believe.
It says, "You won't have to pay for a thing."
- No! - And that was...
No, no, no, no, no, no, no! Miller!
This doesn't say she's forgiven your debt.
Melissa Davey claims her ex-boyfriend,
Joseph Miller, owes for an unpaid loan.
I still get $900.
In July, she had to put her dog down. And...
- - That was in mid- - July? - I believe, yeah. About the...
July 11th.
So, you'd already given her the other 150?
- Yeah, and... - So she called you and said...
She sent me a message that said, "Hey, you know, I'm going to do this."
So I called and she's like, "Hey, I'd really, really like you there."
I can't...
the last couple of words you just sort of muttered, sir.
- I apolo... - Why you sort of muttered them...
She called you and said...
"I would really love to have you there. I don't want to do this alone.
I would really appreciate if you would come."
Okay. And did you think of that as a reasonable request?
Yes and no.
- Okay. Did you agree to go? - Um, after we talked...
No, no, no. I want you to tell me what she said and what you said.
She said that she would do anything.
No, no, no. "I really want you to go," and this is on the phone?
That's what you told me.
- This was on the phone? - Yes.
So, you didn't say that she could see on the phone.
She said, I'd really like you to go.
- And you said what? - "I think that could be worked out."
Okay. "I think that could be worked out."
Yes.
And then what's the next thing that was said, and by whom?
I believe she said that "I would do anything to have you there.
I don't want to do this alone."
Well, you told me that before.
After she said, "I really don't want to do this alone.
I would really like you to be there with me."
- And I said... - And you said,
"That could be..." What did he sa... "That..."
He said, "Okay, I think that could be worked out."
"I think that could be worked out."
Okay, so that's what you said. And then who said something after that?
She said that she would do-- when-- that...
She already said she would do anything.
- She would even relieve my debt. - She said that or did you?
- She said that. - She said it?
- Yes. - Okay.
'Cause that's what his answer was here.
And so then you said to her, "Fine, I'll go with you."
And you went with her and you spent three, four hours there.
The unfortunate business of an end of life
for a beloved pet takes place.
And, prince that you are,
you relieved yourself of the $900 that you owed her.
Yes.
Just from my own information,
how long did you and Ms. Davey date or have a relationship?
A month? Two months?
- Three months? - Four months.
Four months. Did you get close?
- Tried. - Both of you or just she?
- Both. - So you tried to make it
a warm, close, intimate relationship as best we could, yes.
And when you needed some help, she offered to help you.
Correct.
What do you think that I think of a person
who understands the word "close," "warm," "affectionate."
What do you think that I think of a person who says,
"Okay, I'll go with you through this very, very sad time,
someone who I've been close and intimate with for months.
So, I'm going to spend a couple of hours in the afternoon
with you at this very tough time,
but it's gonna cost you $900."
Which is in effect exactly what you said:
"But it's gonna cost you $900."
Let us assume that I believe you,
a reasonable ex-boyfriend,
who wanted to be, as you said,
"I didn't want her to have to come and chase me.
I wanted to assure her."
So, a reasonable ex-boyfriend would say, "Sure, I'll keep you company."
In theory, yes. There were circumstances
when Ms. Davey and I broke up that were not the best for either of us.
And it wasn't a cordial breakup. It was very rocky.
At the time when she called and asked me to come,
I didn't want to speak to her at all.
I would have respected that, sir.
You say, "This was very rocky. It was nasty.
We don't really like each other anymore, or I don't like you anymore."
I don't know how she feels about you.
And it's really not something that I want to do.
I don't want to be involved with that.
I could actually understand that if it was acrimonious, as you say.
What I can't understand is somebody saying, "I'll go with you,
but it's gonna cost you $900."
- That's what I don't understand. - Well, she brought that up.
She was the one that stated that she would relieve the debt.
And I was like, okay, whatever.
Okay, Ms. Davey, now it's up to you.
Now, I have been grilling Mr. Miller, so I have only one question to you.
Do you remember the conversation when you discussed
with him going with you to the vet?
- Yes. I have it in texts. - I'd like to see it.
- Uh, judge, the, uh... - Speak not.
Okay.
Unless you have the text message.
This is the date I called to make the vet appointment.
Sarah, can you tell me what dates these are?
Sure.
If you go up, these are all Saturday, July 9th.
And if you pull over, you can see the time.
Well, I'm looking at all these,
and I don't see anything about her saying to you,
"If you come with me, I'll forgive your debt."
So if you have one of those, I'll take a look at it.
The very top one.
That was after a phone conversation with Ms. Davey.
Just a second.
Where does it say she's forgiven your debt?
The very top one, I believe. It says, "You won't have to pay for a thing."
- No! - And that was...
No, no, no, no, no, no, no!
Miller! Miller!
You know what I'm talking about, sir.
She tells you to keep your gas receipts,
so if you're coming to help her,
it's not going to cost you anything out of pocket.
This doesn't say she's forgiven your debt.
You have family, you have siblings, parents, anything?
- Yes. - Yeah, well.
They're going to be disappointed in you, Mr. Miller,
because it's not princely activity.
It was clear to me from reading the plaintiff's notes to you
that at least it appeared that she was struggling more
with the end of your relationship than you were.
That's just what it appears, and I'm a pretty good judge of that.
And you sound like an intelligent man.
Soulless, but yet intelligent.
So if you have any emotion whatsoever, you can look at this and say,
this is a lady who's sort of struggling.
"Let me see how I can take advantage of that.
I owe her $900, and I'm going to figure out
that if I do this for her and it's really important,
I shouldn't have to pay her back the $900."
Unprincely, Mr. Miller.
Judgment for the plaintiff in the amount of $900.
We're finished here.
This court is adjourned.
People just sometimes don't agree.
It was very clearcut.
At the time, I was very upset with her.
I think he tried his best to just keep things cordial.
Move on and move forward.
Another wonderful relationship that hopefully will not end up in court.
It intrigues me how men can make the jump from
"keep your gas receipts"
to "you don't have to pay me your $900 debt."
We read the messages
and we're unclear as to what debt forgiveness in the messages.
We didn't see it. He handed us the exact same text
that we had read on her phone.
He said, "Yeah, that's what that means."
I think he knew what it meant
because if you checked out his smirk when he handed me
just that one piece of paper, he knew that when it said,
"Keep your gas receipts,
I don't want it to cost you anything" to come with her to the vet.
Having nothing to do with the $900 debt.
Oh, it's just amazing to me that after 27 years of doing this here,
I have to do a breakdown of about 90% of the cases
involve women who are giving money to boyfriends
and then get left holding the bag,
as opposed to the 10% of men who get caught up
with situations where women are prepared to take advantage of them.
- Mm-hmm. - But most of the time it's women.
I don't know. I think it all has to do with self-esteem, Sarah.
I think that the only way to ensure that you have that
- is having a way to support yourself. - Yeah.
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