You were hired to do some demolition work?
- - - Correct. - You hired an unlicensed contractor
without references, and you got his number
from a card that he left on your windshield.
I'm-- I'm not really sure, actually,
a hundred percent on where I found that card.
What does that mean? It doesn't mean anything.
[Announcer] This is "Judy Justice".
Michael Attar is suing his former clients, Mary and Michael Rhodes,
for unpaid demolition work.
[Kevin] Court come to order.
All rise.
Have a seat, please.
Hello, Judge. Case 2115, Attar versus Rhodes.
- Thank you. - You're welcome.
Mr. Attar, you were hired to do some, according to you,
demolition work and other work at a property
owned by Mr. and Mrs. Rhodes.
You gave them an estimate for that work.
I think the estimate was $11,500. Is that correct?
- Correct. - [Judge Judy] And it was outlined
what work you were supposed to do.
You started that work, and according to you,
at some point there was disagreement with either or both of the Rhodes's,
and they stopped payment on a check
- that they gave you. - Correct.
And the check that they gave you was for $4,200.
- - - And then you stopped work for them. - Yes, ma'am, we're finished.
So, you're suing them for the canceled check
and for other unpaid work that you did,
- that you didn't get paid for. - Correct.
[Judge Judy] Mr. and Mrs. Rhodes say
that they were not satisfied with the quality of your work.
It cost them $9,000 to both replace things that were stolen from their property
by either you or members of your team,
something which I don't think that you question,
that somebody from your team, not you,
somebody from your team, may have taken
metal property of theirs that they didn't own.
So, let's go back. Mr. and Mrs. Rhodes,
is this a new property to you, or is this a property
that you owned for a while?
- It's a new property to us. - [Judge Judy] That's what I thought.
- - - So, is it a private house? - Uh, yes.
And we were, um, remodeling it.
[Judge Judy] OK, when did you purchase it?
We purchased in January of 2020.
I'm sorry, 2021.
Is it a single-family residence?
- [Mary Rhodes] Yes. - [Judge Judy] How much did you pay for it?
769,000.
Describe the property to me.
It's, uh, in northern Alta Loma or Rancho Cucamonga.
Um, it's an acre property, has, um, two levels on it,
and a single-family, ranch-style home on it
right now. And what we asked him to do
was demolition the lower half,
- - - Um-- - [Judge Judy] Do you have a photograph?
- - - I do. - [Judge Judy] I'd like to look
at the photograph of what you wanted him to do.
[Mary Rhodes] That's what the lower half looked like.
- OK. - Before.
So, this whole portion you wanted him...
- [Mary Rhodes] Correct. - To demolish?
- [Mary Rhodes] To demolish. - And remove the debris?
- And grade flat. - [Judge Judy] Is that correct, sir?
- I can't see it from here, ma'am. - [Judge Judy] Okay.
We're gonna show it to you.
To demolish it, flatten it,
fill it in...
- [Mary Rhodes] Remove all the debris. - [Judge Judy] Mm-hmm.
- Yes. - [Judge Judy] OK.
And did you have a written contract?
We did not.
Well, that's always a mistake.
- Always. - [Judge Judy] How did you find him?
[Michael Rhodes] I believe I got his business card...
uh, it was on, uh, my personal car, I think, at Home Depot.
We had bought this house, and we tried to find somebody
to do the work, but--
Mr. Rhodes, let me tell you that the best way to find somebody
is not somebody who leaves a card on your car
- at Home Depot. - Clearly.
- Or anyplace else. - [Michael Rhodes] Yeah.
It was a difficult time to find contractors, with Covid,
and everything, at that time.
And, at the time, also going to it, 'cause I read in the paper
somewhere at the time, he didn't have a license.
[Mary Rhodes] He did not.
- And you knew he didn't have a license. - Yeah.
That's the first thing I told them, Your Honor.
[Judge Judy] Just a second.
They didn't say no, we didn't know. They said we knew.
So, you got somebody who had no license
to do what you wanted him to do.
- Mm-hmm. - [Judge Judy] And you got his number
from a card that he left on your windshield.
- Did you ask for references? - Uh, I--
- That's either a yes or a no. - [Michael Rhodes] No.
No, and I'm--
I'm not really sure, actually, a hundred percent
on where I found that card, I think it was--
- [Judge Judy] It doesn't matter. - Yeah.
But we-- He did tell us he was in the process
- of getting his license... - [muttering]
[Mary Rhodes] ...that it was coming.
- [Michael Rhodes] Yeah. - [sighs]
- [Mary Rhodes chuckles] - [Michael Rhodes] I know.
What does that mean? It doesn't mean anything.
You're two intelligent people, OK.
So you hired an unlicensed contractor to do work on your house
and agreed to pay him $11,500.
Now, Mr. Attar,
the $11,000 included labor and materials, is that correct?
There was no material.
- Labor and bins. - [Judge Judy] No mat--
Well, that's material, labor and bins to remove--
- Yes, ma'am. - [Judge Judy] All the equipment
- that you needed-- - Yes, ma'am.
[Judge Judy] to complete the job.
- Yes, ma'am, I've got pictures-- - [Judge Judy] Is that correct?
[Michael Attar] of before, too.
Of what I was supposed to do, and I took a picture--
Well, no-- I have that.
You have the wrong picture, Your Honor.
OK, I'd like to see the picture that he has.
[Michael Attar] I was supposed to do it from the post
all the way to the other post,
- remove everything. - [Judge Judy] OK.
And the pool and the deck.
[Judge Judy] Mr. Attar, the $11,500
was an all-inclusive figure.
Yes, Your Honor.
One of the things that became an issue is a Bobcat?
Correct.
[Judge Judy] From what I'm piecing together,
you hired somebody in a Bobcat to do--
a Bobcat, that's a big piece of equipment
that knocks down something.
I rented a Bobcat.
And somebody who operated it?
My worker.
[Judge Judy] You didn't know how to operate the Bobcat.
I know how to op-- operate Bobcat,
but I was controlling the demolition site, ma'am.
I was, like, many things was going at the same time,
I had to control everything.
Mr. Attar, something happened with the Bobcat.
The original one that you got.
- What happened with it? - It broke down on us.
No. It didn't break down on them,
it broke down on you.
- On us. - [Judge Judy] It broke down on you.
- Yes. - So, what did you do?
I took it back, and the next day
they were supposed to deliver me another one,
but they sent me a drunk driver and a broken-down,
another broken-down Bobcat, I returned it.
At that moment, I asked Mrs. Rhodes,
"Can you please go down-- down Home Depot",
which is, like, a mile away, so we can all stop wasting time,
- rent a Bobcat and, uh-- - [Judge Judy] Just a second.
Why should she rent a Bobcat, sir?
Your $11,500 included the Bobcat.
- But I was gonna pay for the Bobcat. - [Judge Judy] No, no, no.
If you're gonna pay for it, that's one thing.
Then what are you sending her for?
If your $11,500 figure included all materials,
then she doesn't have to rent a Bobcat.
If you rented one that didn't work, rent one that works.
How much of a down payment did they give you?
It was $4,000.
When did you start the job?
I started the job on...
the 15th of, of January.
[Judge Judy] When did you leave the job?
I was asked to leave on the se-- on the second of February.
- On February 2nd? - [Michael Attar] Yes, ma'am.
I have to go back or I'll call the cops on you.
Between January 15th and February 2nd,
other than the $4,000, did they give you any other money?
Yes, Your Honor, they did.
[Judge Judy] How much money did they give you?
[Michael Attar] They gave me up to $7,000.
[Judge Judy] So they gave you an additional $3,000?
- Yes, in, in $1,000 checks. - Shhh.
Your Honor, that was within the first week, we gave him that.
- [Judge Judy] Doesn't matter to me. - OK.
My question was, between January 15th and Feburary 2nd,
- they gave you $7,000? - Correct.
Explain the other $4,200, which is the check that they...
- Stopped payment? - [Judge Judy] Stopped payment on.
Yeah. Uh, happily explain to you.
The Bobcat that she rented, uh, for me on her behalf,
it cost $329 to rent per day.
And I rented for one day only, but they charged me $800--
- No, that's not correct. [chuckles] - [Judge Judy] Just a second.
I didn't ask you anything.
OK.
Do you have a photograph
of what the property looked like when you left?
Yes, ma'am.
The last picture I took.
Before I was kicked out of the property.
You're talking, I'm not listening to you.
[Announcer] Michael Attar claims his former clients,
Mary and Michael Rhodes,
owe for unpaid demolition work.
Mary and Michael are countersuing for lost wages, equipment rental,
and missing property.
Now, they paid you $7,000
Right. Correct.
[Judge Judy] They wrote you another check...
The final check was supposed to be for $5,000, but they only gave me $4,200,
because they minused $800 for the Bobcat rental.
[Judge Judy] Just a second.
First of all, the total bill wasn't seven and five.
Seven and five, even my rudimentary math, is $12,000.
That would be $500 more than your agreed contract,
which was for eleven five.
They, again, they gave me $6,500, 'cause they gave me small checks.
- They gave me that first-- - [Judge Judy] Just a second.
then they gave me smaller ones.
Sir, you're the businessman, whether you have a license or not.
I asked you before, how much money did they give you
between January 15th and February 2nd,
and you said $7,000.
I didn't write it down, Your Honor.
Well, you're here asking for money,
and you have to write it down, you have to have some--
I'm asking for work I've done performed already.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, sir.
[Michael Attar] And as I did the job, Your Honor,
I did seven, eight other side jobs for them.
I don't care whether you did seven or eight side jobs.
Your original agreement with them was for $11,500,
including all material.
Now, what you said to me was that they gave you $7,000.
And you said they're supposed to give me another five.
Well, another five is more than your quote.
Ma'am, the balance was five.
- H-- - [Michael Attar] The initial check,
then they gave me one thousand, one thousand, one thousand.
[Judge Judy] How much money did you give him
- altogether, that he cashed? - $7,000.
[Judge Judy] Then they owed you $4,500.
Pursuant to your agreement
- We agreed to $11,000, not eleven five. - [Michael Attar] Eleven five, Your Honor.
[Judge Judy] Anybody have any proof--
No, it was only a verbal contract.
[Judge Judy] of what the agreed amount was?
We had a verbal contract with me and Mr. Rhodes.
Fine. I will indicate that it's $11,500.
If they gave you seven, they don't owe you five,
they owe you the difference between eleven five
and then the seven that they gave you.
Now, one of the things that you disputed, Mr. Attar,
was this Bobcat.
Who paid for the Bobcat?
Show me.
They minused it, they minused it from the final price.
[Judge Judy] Just a second.
Was that an argument?
The argument about it, Your Honor, is they rented for one day,
but they charged me two days. $800.
There's no Bobcat rental for $800 for two days.
- Do you have the bill for the Bobcat? - [Mary Rhodes] I do, yes.
- And it was for two days - If you go over a certain time--
[Mary Rhodes] because it was returned late.
So they charged a second day.
But in his text messages, he did request it for two days.
- [Judge Judy] Is that the total price? - [Mary Rhodes] Yes.
- And I did not subtract it from his-- - [Judge Judy] Just, just--
[Mary Rhodes] payment.
- Total contract was 652.74? - Yes.
Do you have a photograph of what the property looked like
- when you left? - [Michael Attar] Yes, ma'am.
The last picture I took...
before I was kicked out of the property.
You're talking, I'm not listening to you.
- Just show me a picture. - Yes, ma'am.
- This is not a picture-- - [Judge Judy] Mr. Attar,
- you're the businessman. - Yes, ma'am.
- [Judge Judy] This is your company. - Yes, ma'am.
Company requires: "A", a license before you operate, which you didn't have.
"B", it requires a written contract.
You're the businessman.
They're people who bought a house who got your number
off a windshield someplace.
You're the businessman, and you want the parameters,
you want them fixed. So I don't know if it's 11,000,
or eleven five.
- Do you understand? - Very much, Your Honor.
[Judge Judy] Right. Well, that's your mistake.
You look as if you've probably been in business for a long time.
Fourteen years.
And is what you're telling me you don't have written contracts?
All my contracts are verbal.
Then, how many times have you been in court, sir?
- [Michael Attar] Never. - Never?
I've never had a stop payment check.
Everybody pays me on time, Your Honor.
[Judge Judy] Here's the problem.
So when you finished, the debris wasn't all removed.
[Michael Attar] That was, they kept telling me
don't touch it, their neighbor, cousin,
whoever, was gonna come pick it up.
That was just cut corde wood.
[Judge Judy] No. There's brick, there's wood,
- there's cement. - We cleaned all that.
- I came, uh, I personally cleaned-- - [Judge Judy] Just a second.
What I asked you, Mr. Attar,
was show me a picture of the property when you left.
This is the picture that you showed me.
[Michael Attar] That was the last, before I had more work,
I came in and did more-- I wasn't taking pictures,
I was not expecting somebody to stop payment on a check, Your Honor.
- I was not expecting that. - [Mary Rhodes] I have pictures
of what it looked like when he left.
[Judge Judy] Well, what are you showing me, here,
this brick that's here?
They piled it there and then left it there.
- That's what they wanted-- - [Judge Judy] Shhh!
It was supposed to be removed.
So this is the back.
[Mary Rhodes] That's a picture of the sagging patio,
because he removed part of the supports that were holding up the patio,
that he wasn't supposed to, so it's now sagging.
[Judge Judy] Now, this is the picture that you gave me
when you told me this is what you wanted...
- [Mary Rhodes] Mm-hmm. - Level, cleared and made flat.
- [Mary Rhodes] Right. - Now, I want to see your picture
of what this looked like when he left.
You have it, it's in, it's in some of those photos.
[Michael Attar] That's leveled.
- You're talking about this? - [Michael Attar] Yes.
[Mary Rhodes] That's part of it.
Th-- The close-up, that's part of it.
[Judge Judy] Well, it looks like most of the stuff
is done. It looked like a lot of clean-up left.
No, ma'am, we'd done all the clean-up.
Well, I would've seen that, sir.
Then what you're supposed to do is take a photograph.
It was also, it was also buried underneath.
These are the photos of when we did it ourselves,
and really leveled it out.
And as we were doing that
we found so much buried underneath
that should have been removed,
but his Bobcat person buried it all.
- [Michael Attar] Your Honor? - He buried the--
All the debris, all the concrete, brick, and--
[Judge Judy] OK, let me see the bill from the--
- Your Honor? - [Judge Judy] Shhh!
[Mary Rhodes] No, we did it ourselves.
We rented equipment and did it ourselves.
- On his vacation. - Oh. Nice.
[Judge Judy] OK. $4,500 is so far what's owed
on this contract.
Now, your counterclaim is money owed for lost work,
equipment rentals,
labor and missing damages to property.
What money owed for lost work?
[Mary Rhodes] During the second week
that he was working,
he called and said that his crew had left--
this was the second day of, use of, supposed to be
- use of the Bobcat that I rented. - I fired him, Your Honor.
OK, if you interrupt me again, I'm just dismissing your case.
- Do you understand? - Thank you, Your Honor.
- [Judge Judy] Understand? - Yes, ma'am.
[Judge Judy] Very good.
Just explain "lost work".
- Who's lost work? - His.
[Judge Judy] Oh, I get it.
- Well, he called and said his crew left, - [Judge Judy] Forget it.
he can't finish the job--
You weren't living there?
- Not yet, no. - [Judge Judy] You weren't living there.
You want to go, go.
I'm not interested in his lost wages for taking care of his house.
So far, you owe the man
the balance on his contract, unless you had somebody else do it,
which is absolutely fine,
and I would look at that, removal of debris, what it cost you,
and you're absolutely entitled to that.
Deducted from what you owe him,
which is $4,500.
- But he didn't finish the job. - [Judge Judy] Just a second.
You tell me, how am I supposed to gauge
how much of the job he didn't finish?
Did he not complete $2,500 worth?
$3,500 worth?
$1,500 worth?
[Mary Rhodes] I think the seven we paid him
was overpaid. He didn't have to end up
removing an entire pool. He only had to remove--
That's your problem.
Just a second. I read that.
You said it's not a big pool, it wasn't eight feet,
it was only 24 inches.
- He gave you a price - Mm-hmm.
to level everything.
Nothing delineated, nothing in a written contract.
The pool turns out to be two feet
instead of six feet, or two feet instead of eight feet,
well, if he was the contractor, and he came out,
and he looked at the pool, and he said, oh, this is an eight-foot pool,
and it turned out it's a 12-foot pool, he'd be stuck with eleven five.
Just like you're stuck with eleven five, because it was shallower.
Now, you owe him $4,500,
unless you want to produce for me bills
that you have for rental equipment, etc., and I will absolutely deduct that
from the $4,500.
Just give me the bills and the amount of equipment.
Don't-- Say nothing, Mr. Attar.
Mr. Rhodes, did you rent a Bobcat?
- The one that I cleaned up the yard with? - [Judge Judy] Yes.
- Uh, I, I rented a piece of equipment-- - Jump up!
[Michael Rhodes] Yes.
And you know how they pick up metal?
No, I don't know that, sir.
I'm a television personality.
I don't know about people driving down the street to pick up metal.
I've never had somebody drive down the street
and say, "I'm looking for metal."
They don't even come down my street and ask if I want sharp knives.
[Announcer] Michael Attar has accused
his former clients, Mary and Michael Rhodes,
of refusing to pay for demolition work.
Mary and Michael claim he never finished the job
and stole their property.
Now, what did you rent?
- A skip loader. - [Judge Judy] That's different
- from a Bobcat. - Yes, that's correct.
- Smaller? - I would say, bigger.
Bigger. And do you remember how much it cost you?
Uhh... [exhales]
[Judge Judy] Did you rent it from Home Depot?
No, no, no. It's from a local rental yard.
I think it was in, um...
- All the equipment we rented - in Ontario.
- was $1,300. - Yeah.
- Find it. - [Michael Rhodes] Yeah.
- [Mary Rhodes] I... - Find the bill.
They didn't print it, so... oh, my God...
How many days did you have it, Mr. Rhodes?
Four.
[Judge Judy] I'm dismissing your counterclaim,
Mrs. Rhodes. Do you want to know why?
Because I asked him a specific question, and you answered.
- OK. - [Judge Judy] Do you understand?
- Sure. - [Judge Judy] You understand?
[Judge Judy] That part of your counterclaim,
'cause you don't have it, you can't find it,
So, so far, you owe him $4,500.
Not $8,600, but $4,500.
Now, do you have any proof
that Mr. Attar or someone from his team
stole copper piping or whatever piping
that you claim is missing?
Do you have any proof that either Mr. Attar
or anyone under his authority took property from you?
Yes. We have text messages back and forth.
[Judge Judy] OK, I'll read them.
OK. So, what you're referring to with regard to the stolen property is,
You sent a picture, and there's a little piece of pipe there,
one piece of pipe, and you say,
"Mike, did you or your guys happen to grind off two metal poles
in concrete blocks? The kids use those for volleyball nets."
And he says, "Oh, my God, no, sir, but I am guessing the person
whom I gave my metal to, no problem, Michael, please give--"
and I don't see the rest of this message.
Yeah. So, the-- that was the beginning of things we noticed that were missing.
Oh. I don't care. - If- - If this is what you're talking about?
Yes, he's saying he let a metal person onto our yard,
- [Judge Judy] OK. - and they went and took everything
- that was metal. - [Judge Judy] OK.
OK. Now, Mr. Attar...
- Yes, Your Honor? - [Judge Judy] I want you to tell me
about the missing metal on this property.
She was standing right there, and I had, there was a metal guy
driving down the street.
And you know, how they pick up metal?
No, I don't know that, sir. I'm a television personality.
I don't know about people driving down the street to pick up metal.
I've never had somebody drive down the street and say,
"I'm looking for metal."
They don't even come down my street and ask if I want sharp knives.
- Okay. - [Judge Judy] Do you understand?
- Very much, Your Honor. - [Judge Judy] Do you understand?
- Very much, Your Honor. - OK. Who is this person--
This person was picking up metal.
And I asked her permission that maybe he comes on the property--
- [Judge Judy] Just a second. - Yes, ma'am.
Was this person picking up metal for nothing?
- Yes. - [Judge Judy] Just a second.
Yeah.
You're a business guy, Mr. Attar.
Somebody drives down the street and says, you know,
"I see you doing construction.
Is there any metal around here that you want me to dispose of?"
- Yes, ma'am, they do it a lot. - [Judge Judy] Yes.
And then they look around...
this is what you're telling me-- they look around,
and they take the metal for nothing?
Yes, ma'am. That's to be cheaper for me,
instead of load it on my trailer and take to the recycling tow yard--
So, what metal did they take, sir?
- I assume you watched. - Everything that I gave him.
- What did you give him? - [Michael Attar] What was there.
Nobody went up there and cut no poles, ma'am.
[Judge Judy] Well, they sent you a picture
of a pole, sir. And in response to the picture
of the pole, you said, "Oh, my God,
I'm guessing the person whom I gave my metal to,
- [Michael Attar] I'm guessing. - [Judge Judy] No problem,
and then you say later, tell me what it is,
and I will either look high and low to get it back,
or replace it. That's what you say.
- - - Yes, I would replace it. - [Judge Judy] That's what you say.
Yeah, I would replace it.
[Judge Judy] Now, next question.
I need an itemized list of what the value was of the metal taken.
I know there's a list of everything.
They're listed in there.
[Judge Judy] What is this?
[Mary Rhodes] Those are all the damages,
but the metal is listed in there separately
of the items that are missing.
No, it isn't. This is a whole bunch of other things
that you've prepared for this case.
[Mary Rhodes] It's in there, underneath.
There's the horse feeder,
part of the corral was cut off--
[Judge Judy] But this is something that you wrote
- yourself. - [Mary Rhodes] Yes, you said
- an itemized list-- - [Judge Judy] This isn't a--
If they took six feet of pipe, get me a bill from Home Depot
- for the replacement of that pipe. - [Mary Rhodes] Oh.
- I have... - [Judge Judy] All the bills
for the replacement of metal.
Not what you prepared for this litigation.
I'm sorry, I misunderstood. Itemized list.
[Judge Judy] Did you take down a horse corral?
No, Your Honor, I did not take down a horse corral.
- I had nothing to do-- - [Judge Judy] Horse corral, is that metal,
- or is it-- - It's made out of galvanized metal, yeah.
They cut pieces off of that that were sticking up,
- to take, to recycle, I guess. - [Judge Judy] Just a second.
- Was there a four-sided horse corral, - [Mary Rhodes] Yes.
- that looked like this, - [Mary Rhodes] Yes.
- that they took down-- - They cut pieces that were sticking up
above the horse corral, attached to the horse corral.
[Judge Judy] You're being petty. You're being petty.
$306, Ramm's price.
Galvanized wall-mounted horse feeder.
- Did you take a horse feeder? - [Michael Attar] No, Your Honor,
- I got no-- - You owe Mr. Attar $4,500.
Judgment for the plaintiff. Your counterclaim's dismissed.
- We're finished. - [Kevin] This court is adjourned.
Well, he-- his equipment broke,
and he wanted us to rent the equipment for him.
The equipment died because... things breaks down.
And then the next day, he calls and says he can't finish it.
At that moment, I didn't have a credit card
to my name.
And that's the honest truth.
So, we pretty much figured that was job abandonment at that point.
Yeah, I'm gonna have a written contract in the future.
- Don't hire him. - Always hire a professional.
I could not believe that your first question to him,
when he said that he'd been working as a contractor
for 14 years was, and you've been working all 14 of those years unlicensed?
- Oh, yeah. [chuckles] - I was waiting for the question.
I was waiting at the edge of my seat, and it never came.
- Different minds. - [chuckling]
[Judge Judy] Yeah. Should've slipped me a note.
- I should've. - You should've slipped me a note.
No, that actually didn't cross my mind, but that's a good question.
Oral contracts and no license.
And no license, but there's no question he did the work.
- Yeah. - He did the work,
and they were really dickering over the, who was gonna absorb the cost
of the second Bobcat that they had to get,
which was really ridiculous.
If they had had another contractor who came and completed the job,
- You would've noted that. - [Judge Judy] I would've deducted it
from the $4,500 that they owed him.
[Judge Judy] But absent that, the fact
he rented some sort of piece of equipment, and came and cleaned up the property
- Yeah. - [Judge Judy] was not important to me,
and the rest of their case was nonsense.
Next time, they won't employ somebody
- for $11,000 - Big job.
from a card from your windshield.
At Home Depot.
From, you know, from wherever, and not say,
OK, listen, maybe I give him a shot.
Give me three of your last references to call.
It's a good lesson to people out there, doing work.
I don't understand that. Well, anyway...
We're done.
[Announcer] Have you been cheated?
Go to JudyJustice.tv.